let's talk bitcoins, episode 55 - "happy birthday bitcoin"

8/14/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoins, episode 55 - "Happy Birthday Bitcoin"

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Let's Talk Bitcoin - Episode 55.

Participants:

Host - Adam B. Levine (ABL)Andreas M Antonopoulos (AS)Alan Reiner (AR) Creator o t!e Armor" Bitcoin client#r. Step!anie Murp!" (#R) #irector o $perations at %r&& Aid

ABL: Hi' and elcome to episode o Let*s +al, Bitcoin' a tice-ee,l" s!o aout t!e ideas' people' and

proects uildin/ t!e di/ital econom" and t!e uture o mone". 0isit us at letstal,itcoin.com or our dail"

/uest lo/' all our past episodes' and o course' tippin/ addresses. M" name is Adam B. Levine and toda" is

Satos!i #a". $n 1ovemer 2st' 3445 t!e Bitcoin !itepaper as released it! little anare' and toda"' ive

"ears later' it*s !umlin/ to see !o ar e*ve come. As teased on episode 6' Alan Reiner' ounder' C7$

o Armor" tec!nolo/ies' and lead developer o t!e open source Armor" allet proect oins me toda" or anin-dept! intervie. 1ever !eard o Armor"8 Ater t!is episode' t!at on*t e t!e case. 9e tal, paper

ac,ups' ra/mented secrets' lie as a unded open source proect' eatures on t!e !orion and muc!

more. +!at intervie occupies t!e middle o toda"*s s!o' and is almost e;actl" &4 minutes lon/. %or t!e

rest o t!e episode' Bitcoin 4.< is comin/ soon and it*s pac,ed it! material t!at on it*s ace mi/!t e a little

tou/! to understand. Have no ear' Andreas is !ere. 9e start /oin/ t!rou/! t!e list to e completed on

episode = and ma,in/ sense o it all' Step!anie and > !ave lots o ?uestions. Spoiler alert@ +!in/s

actuall" are /oin/ to /et easier' so !app" Satos!i #a" ever"od". Ma" our ne;t ive "ears e as eventul

as t!e irst. 7no" t!e s!o@

-Brea,-

ABL: So !ere on Let*s +al, Bitcoin' e li,e to tal, aout complicated issues in understandale terms' and t!at*s

somet!in/ actuall" e stopped sa"in/ t!at on t!is s!o ecause it sort o ecame a t!in/ e said all t!e

time. But' !ere > t!in, it*s particularl" applicale. avin Andresen' t!e lead developer o t!e Bitcoin proect'

put up a lo/ post on t!e Bitcoin %oundation*s site called Core #evelopment o 1umer t!at asicall"

/oes over ever"t!in/ t!at*s comin/ in t!e client .< update. +!at update isn*t out "et' it*s /oin/ to e out' li,e in

t!e ne;t couple o mont!s. > don*t t!in, e !ave a irm date on it' ut t!ere*s lots o stu

t!at*s c!an/in/ and lots o stu t!at*s !appenin/ in t!is update and > t!in, it*s ver" important t!at e

address t!is and rea, it don point " point. As ala"s' >*m oined " Andreas M Antonopoulos and #r.

Step!anie Murp!"' Hi /u"s.

#M: Hello.

#R: Hi.


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ABL: 9e*re /oin/ to ump ri/!t into t!is. +!is is strai/!t rom t!e lo/ post. 9e*re /oin/ to /o t!rou/! t!is

point-"-point and tal, aout eac! o t!e issues as t!e" come up' and ,ind o /et a eelin/ o !at*s /oin/

to c!an/e in t!is comin/ maor update. %rom t!e article - Since m" last update at t!e end o Dune' t!e core

development team produced to minor u/-i; releases !ile or,in/ toards a maor 4.< release.

9e*ve revieed and closed over &44 pull re?uests' !ic! ran/e rom correctin/ t!e spellin/ o a ord in a

comment to maor ne eatures li,e t!e pa"ment protocol. >*ll !i/!li/!t some c!an/es t!at are alread" in t!e

4.< source tree' and t!en rite riel" aout some c!an/es t!at e !ope ill e read" soon. +!e irst

c!an/e t!at t!e" tal, aout is *Proval" Pruneale $utputs.* +!ere !ave een !u/e deates in t!e past

aout emeddin/ data in t!e loc,c!ainE some people eel t!at t!e loc,c!ain s!ould e a pulic resource

availale to use or !atever people li,e' as lon/ as t!e" pa" suicient transaction ees to ma,e it

ort!!ile or miners to store t!eir transactions. $t!ers eel t!at t!e loc,c!ain s!ould onl" contain t!e data

necessar" to validate Bitcoin transactions' and an" ot!er data s!ould e stored separatel". MISSINGDATA

AS: avin reall" tal,s aout proval" prune-ale outputs' and it*s a it conusin/ ecause it*s not clear

!at provale prune-ale outputs !ave to do it! puttin/ data in t!e loc,c!ain' so let me ver" riel"

e;plain t!is. Because t!ere asn*t an oicial mec!anism or puttin/ data in t!e loc,c!ain' people

created a,e transactions' and t!ese transactions ere to addresses t!at don*t e;ist' so instead o

pa"in/ Bo at t!e coee s!op or "our coee and sendin/ it to Bo*s address' i someone*s tr"in/ to use it as

a notariation service' and t!e" send a tin" pa"ment to a o/us address' and t!is o/us address is

asicall" an unspendale output' ecause it can e used in suse?uent transactions to redeem t!at

mone" ecause t!ere is no ,e" - it*s not a real transaction - t!ere*s no a" to unloc, it.

7ectivel"' t!e ,e" t!at*s supposed to unloc, it' it is t!e data "ou*re supposed to put into t!e loc,c!ain' it*sdoes or, as a ,e" it onl" or,s as a loc, o data t!at "ou put in t!ere. +!e prolem it! t!is is t!at

ecause "ou !ave to ,eep all o t!e possil" spendale outputs in a dataase in order to i/ure out i "ou

can create a ne transaction' !at t!at does is ever" time someone notaries somet!in/ it puts a

transaction in t!ere' t!at*s /oin/ to sta" in t!e loc,c!ain orever' and ill never e e;cluded rom t!e pool o

transactions' ecause "ou don*t ,no i it can e spent or not' it loo,s li,e a normal transaction. +!is solution

is to create a transaction speciicall" or puttin/ data' and ecause "ou ,no it*s or data'

and ecause "ou ,no it can*t e spend' and ecause "ou ,no it doesn*t !ave an" value - onl" ees' "ou

can asicall" discard it. +!e onl" nodes t!at need to ,eep t!at are t!e nodes t!at are interested in

,eepin/ a ull arc!ival cop" o t!e loc,c!ain. >t*s no lon/er needed or normal operation and

spendin/' so t!is is a /reat compromise. >t /ives us an oicial a" o puttin/ data in t!e loc,c!ain

it!out urdenin/ it it! a,e transactions t!at e !ave to carr" orever' ust in case t!e" mi/!t e

spendale.

#R: Let me interrupt "ou or a minute t!ou/!' Andreas. Fp until t!is update /ets made' an" notar"-t"pe data

t!at*s in t!e loc,c!ain is /oin/ to sta" in t!e loc,c!ain' is t!at ri/!t8 $r can it e retroactivel" e

pruned out8


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AS: 1o' all o t!e un, t!at*s in t!ere is in t!ere and ill remain in t!ere' ut it*s reall" not a prolem at

toda"*s scale' ecause all o t!ese t!in/s are tin" and nascent services. So' "ou ,no' a ar i//er

prolem as t!e use o unspendale outputs to si/nal t!e results o /amlin/ on speciic sites' and t!at

as creatin/ dust as it as called' micro-transactions t!at are not spendale. And in act most o t!at came

rom ust a e /amlin/ sites' t!is actuall" solves t!at prolem too' ecause no "ou can send ac, a

transaction t!at sa"s t!at G"ou onG or G"ou lostG it!out it ein/ a a,e transaction.

#R: So does t!is mean t!at t!e rate o /rot! o t!e loc,c!ain is /oin/ to slo' per!aps8

AS: 1ot reall". +!e sie o t!is ne t!in/ is aout t!e same as t!e old transactions' it*s not reall" t!at

dierent. So' it*s not reall" /oin/ to ma,e an appreciale dierence in t!e /rot! o t!e loc,c!ain.

9!at it ill do' !oever' is it ill allo "ou to create nodes t!at are ull nodes in terms o transactions'

ut don*t !ave a ull cop" o ever" unspendale output' ecause t!e" can ust i/nore t!in/s t!at are not

pa"ale transactions' so "ou can separate t!e stu t!at*s in t!e loc,c!ain or mone"' rom t!e stu

t!at*s in t!e loc,c!ain or inormation content' and some nodes can c!oose not to carr" t!e inormation

content' or not to rememer it' or not to ,eep it in memor"' so it /ives t!em a a" to dierentiate.

#R: But' t!ere*s still /oin/ to !ave to e some amount o nodes t!at are dedicated to

rememerin/ t!is inormation t!ou/!' ri/!t8 Because --

AS: Correct.

#R: >t seems li,e t!ere could e a ris, o it ecomin/ too centralied' ri/!t8 Li,e' i onl" oneperson !as t!e notaried cop" t!at Step!anie ou/!t a !ouse on t!is date it! Bitcoin' t!at mi/!t e a

prolem' ut i a !undred-t!ousand people !ave t!at it*s proal" o,a"' ri/!t8

AS: 9ell actuall"' no' ecause t!ese transactions ill still e mined' ill still e propa/ated across t!e

netor,' t!e"*ll still !ave proo o or,' and t!e"*ll still !ave t!e same securit". +!e ull loc,c!ain ill

include ever"t!in/. +!e onl" ?uestion is !et!er in t!e in-memor" dataase o spendale transactions "ou

,eep in t!e allet application' or in a pa"ment application. 9!et!er "ou !ave to ,eep t!ese t!in/s. So

essentiall"' it creates to t"pes o ull nodes' t!ose o t!e transaction ocus and t!ose o t!e arc!ival ocus

and ust ,eep a ull cop" o t!e loc,c!ain or arc!ival purposes. > don*t see it as a prolem or

centraliation. All o t!is stu ill e in t!e loc,c!ain' ill e mined' and ill e ust as secure as ever" ot!er

transaction.

#R: #o "ou t!in, t!is ill c!an/e !o people use t!e loc,c!ain or t!in/s li,e notar" purposes8

AS: Asolutel". >t creates a reall"' reall" neat solution. 1o "ou can create an output t!at is clearl"


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or storin/ data. >t*s /ot enou/! space to ma,e a SHA23 !as! - it !as 54 "tes' so "ou can do a SHA23

and !ave some room or some additional metadata. +!en "ou can clearl" identi" t!ese transactions and

process t!em so t!e"*re not ust ra data' t!e"*re ,ind o structured. All o t!at reall" is /oin/ to ma,e or

muc! more eicient use o t!e loc,c!ain as an inormation store. > e;pect all o t!e notariation

services' as soon as t!is is idel" availale' to sitc! to implementin/ it. Because' it*s a muc! cleaner

solution.

ABL: +!is is a service t!at*s ein/ oered to t!ese people !o ant to emed inormation into t!e

loc,c!ain' ut t!e" don*t actuall" !ave to e;actl" c!an/e !at t!e"*re doin/ do t!e"8 +!e" can still -- t!e

met!od t!e"*ve een usin/ ill or,.

AS: +!e met!od t!e"*ve een usin/ ill or,' it*ll e less eicient and it*s ,lud/e"' ut !at t!is is' is a

operand transaction' and in t!e transaction lan/ua/e t!at is used to uild transactions. So' i eore "ou

!ad' "ou ,no' 23 vers or uildin/ transactions' no "ou !ave 2& vers or uildin/ transactions and

one o t!e e;otic t"pes o transactions "ou can uild is ,ind o t!is ,ind o data content transaction. 1o'

,eep in mind t!e vast' vast maorit" o transactions on t!e loc,c!ain ollo a ver"' ver" simple pattern'

!ic! is pa" !oever !as t!is pulic !as! address. +!e vast maorit" is Address A pa"s Address B. But

t!e transaction scriptin/ lan/ua/e is muc! muc! more sop!isticated and complicated t!an t!at' "ou can

do a ide variet" o t!in/s. +!is /ives people more lan/ua/e to use !en creatin/ transactions' so !en t!e"

create t!ese transactions t!e" can e e;plicit it! t!em ein/ data content rat!er t!an ,lud/e" and uildin/

custom transactions t!at are a,ed.

ABL: So' !o ould someone /o aout usin/ t!is8 Here*s t!e ne;t ?uote - +!e core code !as no eas" a" o

creatin/ t!ese ne transaction outputs- "ou !ave to create t!em "oursel usin/ t!e ra transactions AP>.And t!ere are no plans to displa" t!e data in Bitcoin-t' so "ou don*t !ave to orr" aout someod"

sendin/ "ou a e milliits and attac!in/ a s!ort-ut-anno"in/ messa/e to t!e transaction.

AS: +!is is no dierent as to !at e !ave toda"' none o t!ese a,e transactions can e created it!out

!avin/ direct access to transaction AP>. 7ssentiall"' "ou !and-code t!ese it! "our on code' to uild

t!ese transactions. >t*s reall" not t!at !ard. >t*s actuall" onl" & lines o code to uild a transaction li,e t!is in

prett" muc! an" lan/ua/e. +!ere*s no dierence in t!ose terms rom !at e !ad eore. Iou still ill need to

uild custom code to create t!ese transactions. +!e onl" dierence is t!at no "ou !ave t!e e;plicit vers to

do t!at and "ou*re not a,in/ it.

ABL: So t!e ne;t section deals it! auto tools readin/ rom avin*s lo/ post. Less controversial (> !ope@)

ut more disruptive to core development: e*ve sitc!ed rom usin/ !and-coded' platorm-speciic

Ma,eiles and ?ma,e.

#R: Basicall" ma,eiles t!at are automaticall" /enerated it! autotools.


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ABL: So Andreas' !en t!e"*re tal,in/ aout auto tools !ere t!is is dealin/ it! !o t!e" actuall" roll out ne

versions' ri/!t8

AS: 1o' t!is is t!e uild s"stem. +!is is ta,in/ source code and convertin/ it into inaries or all o t!e

various platorms' "a ,no Bitcoin is a multi platorm source ase' a sin/le code ase t!at compiles to

multiple tar/ets. Iou can ta,e t!e same Bitcoin code and compile it or 9indos' or $SJ' or Linu; or'

"ou ,no' a ver" ide variet" o composite compatile operatin/ s"stems. Fp to no eac! one o t!ose !ad

it*s on ,ind o custom. Li,e' i it*s $SJ version la!' do t!is. 1o it*s usin/ auto-tools !ic! pearl eac!

s"stems t!e" use some !euristics to tr" to identi" !at t"pe o s"stem is' and !at capailities it !as

and t!en automaticall" /enerate t!e appropriate pac,a/e. +!is matters or to reasons. $ne' it ma,es it muc!

easier to ,eep t!e code ase /eneric !ile simultaneousl" roadenin/ t!e numer o tar/ets t!is code

can e deplo"ed to. And to' it*s a lot easier to run automated testin/ suites on t!e various uilds. So'

or e;ample ne code is released or Pull re?uest is pulled in or patc! is pulled in. +!at immediatel" needs

testin/. So no' "ou can run automated tools t!at onl" test t!e Linu; version' ut "ou can also run testin/

on ever" version o 9indos' ever" version o $SJ and do re/ression testin/ etc. it! t!ose. So' it

ma,es it muc! easier to do automated uilds and' more importantl"' automated testin/.

ABL: AS' can > t!in, o t!is as standardiin/ t!e a" t!at t!e various clients are ein/ uilt8

AS: Ies' e;actl". >t*s standardiin/ t!em to t!e most common uild platorm !ic! most operatin/

s"stems support and it ma,es it possile to vastl" e;pand t!e tar/ets' "ea!.

ABL: Also' as a standard user o Bitcoin' ut not someone !o reall" /ets into t!e tec!nical side' it t!is

actuall" somet!in/ > reall" need to care aout8

AS: F! no' ut i "ou !ad to donload t!e code and sa" compile it on Linu; in order to use it' to test out

Bitcoin + or run Bitcoin #aemon as a node' a ull node on "our Fni; s"stem or !osted server' "ou*d !ave

to compile Bitcoin. Fp to no t!at involved runnin/ ?ma,e and a e ot!er t!in/s' and it as a it o a

!it and miss t!in/. Li,e' o!' it*s not ?uite t!e version o Funtu' it !as sli/!tl" dierent version o t!is

lirar"' and t!en "ou !ave to i; all t!ese dependencies. 9it! t!is ne s"stem "ou t"pe t!ree commands'

auto-/en' coni/ure and ma,e. And it ould asicall" i/ure t!at all out and uild it or "ou' and it ma,es

t!at process a lot simpler and more standardied. >t also ma,es it easier to pac,a/e and includes in

various operatin/ s"stems usin/ t!e operatin/ s"stem standard pac,a/e mana/er. So' or e;ample in Linu;

"ou mi/!t !ave .rpm*s or Red!at or de pac,a/es or Funtu and #eian' on $SJ "ou !ave # pac,a/e or

.dm/ or arc!ives or applications. And on indos "ou !ave install s!ields' .e;e*s or !atever t!e"*re

usin/ t!ese da"s on 9indos. So' it allos "ou essentiall" to create automatic installers easier as ell.

Advertisement - 7as"#1S is t!e siss arm" ,nie or "ou domain names' !elpin/ meet t!eir

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Advertisement - Iou*re listenin/ to Let*s +al, Bitcoin' t!e premier audio cast providin/ nes and insi/!ts

t!at cover t!e rapidl" evolvin/ orld o di/ital mone". $ur tice-ee,l" s!os include anal"sis o late-

rea,in/ nes' updates on ,e" tec!nical' usiness' and re/ulator" issues' and in-dept! intervies it! t!e

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ABL: +oda" on Let*s +al, Bitcoin' e*re oined " one o m" avorite /uests and entrepreneurs in t!is space.

Alan Reiner is t!e ounder and C7$ o Armor" +ec!nolo/ies and !e oins us once a/ain on t!e s!o. Alan'

t!an, "ou or oinin/ us.

AR: He" Andreas. +!an,s. +!an,s or !avin/ me.

ABL: Bac,in/ up a second' Armor" is prett" muc! m" allet o c!oice' and >*m not as!ul aout t!at at all.

>t !as a lot o reall" interestin/ eatures and "ou*ve een developin/ it as an open source proect or t!e

last to "ears. Iou*ve made a lot o pro/ress in t!at amount o time' and it*s ecome a airl" popular

allet. Iou ust ent t!rou/! a round o undin/ t!at sa "ou up/rade "our compan" t!at used to e a

LLC to a ull sied' "ou ,no' corporation. Can "ou tell us !o "our ourne" ,ind o ent aout rom ein/

a !o"ist open source proect to somet!in/ t!at*s ull" unded8

AR: Actuall" or t!e irst "ear and a !al > asn*t an"t!in/ in terms o companies. > as ust a random

!o"ist' > still !ad a ull time o or,in/' doin/ missile deense contracts at a contractor in t!e #C

area' and > as or,in/ on Armor" in m" spare time. 1o' as Bitcoin started /ettin/ i//er and Armor"

started /ettin/ i//er' and Armor"*s eatures ere in !i/!er demand and people !ad more mone" rom t!e

/roin/ value o Bitcoin' t!e" elt more pressure to protect t!at' and Armor" !as slol" ecome a

trusted c!oice or t!ose people !o are t!e most paranoid aout securit". Basicall"' as a part time !o"' it

,ind o /ot i//er t!an > could !andle as a part-timer. > /ot a irst level undin/' a ver" small amount o undin/'

to !elp convince m" iance to let me ?uit m" o. 9it!in a e mont!s e !ad +race Ma"er come

alon/ and anted to /ive us more undin/' and more serious undin/ - not ust to let me ?uit m" o' ut

to !ire ot!er people to do so' ecause !e elieves ever"one involved !ere elieves t!at Armor" is /oin/ to

pla" a i/ role in !elpin/ people secure t!eir mone" and t!at t!ere ust aren*t a lot o ot!er tools t!at do t!is.

ABL: Let*s tal, aout t!ose tools. +!ere !asn*t een a lot o development in t!e allet space - ,ind o

surprisin/ to a lot o people. > sort o attriute t!is to t!e act t!at !en "ou !ave somet!in/ t!at or,s' even iit is not super usale' t!e act t!at it or,s and t!at it*s reel" availale in t!e Satos!i client' !as

sort o made it so t!at it*s !ard to monetie t!e allet space' unless "ou*re doin/ somet!in/ super-

revolutionar". +!is is clearl" a prolem "ou*ve run into.

AR: +!at*s een a topic o discussion' t!ere*s even een tal, on t!e Bitcoin orum. People

!ave noted t!at allets are diicult to monetie and it*s "ou ,no' e*re deinitel" rea,in/ ne /round

!ere' and +race and m"sel are deinitel" ta,in/ a /amle in terms o !et!er e t!in, e can turn an open

source proect into somet!in/ t!at ma,es mone". Luc,il"' +race and t!e ot!er investors and ever"one

closel" related to us - e all li,e Bitcoin' so at t!e ver" least' e !ope t!at e ill e ale to develop tools


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t!at !elp /ro Bitcoin' even i t!e compan" does not ind all t!ose monetiation avenues. -But o course'

e*re prett" optimistic aout t!at too.

ABL: So is t!ere an e;pectation t!at "ou*ll e monetiin/ t!is proect rom sicN t!e investors8

AR: 7ventuall".

ABL: #o "ou !ave an" li/!t to s!ed on t!at ?uestion' on !o "ou ould /o aout monetiin/ somet!in/

li,e t!is' or is it still deinitel" in t!e pot8

AR: 9e !ave proal" doens o dierent a"s t!at e can see rin/in/ in mone". >t*s diicult to ,no

!ic! one o t!ose are /oin/ to ear t!e most ruit and !o muc! eort it*s /oin/ to e to e;plore t!ose

pat!s. At t!e moment' e*re in t!e mode t!at e ant to /et t!e tools uilt' ,eep t!is t!in/ open source'

!elp /ro Bitcoin' and t!e investors are simpl" sa"in/ t!e"*re in no rus! on ma,in/ a return on t!is. 9e are

asolutel" plannin/ to e;plore t!ose avenues ut e reall" ant to !ave a /ood product eore e start on

t!e monetiin/. 9e*re a little concerned t!at i e ere to divert resources to uild t!e revenue

c!annels t!at e*d e !urtin/ ourselves' ecause t!e product is still not as mature as e*d li,e it to e. >t

or,s ver" ell unctionall"' ut it*s usailit" is ,ind o lac,in/ ri/!t no.

ABL: So let*s tal, aout t!at or a second. Armor" on t!e one !and !as all o t!ese reall" interestin/' and >

t!in, a lot o t!em are actuall" uni?ue as ar as Bitcoin allets are concerned' eatures. But' on t!e ot!er

!and it does use a lot o s"stem resources' and re?uires "ou to run Bitcoin #aemon in t!e ac,/round'

so' > mean' rom a tec!nolo/" standpoint !at are t!e t!in/s t!at "ou*re or,in/ on toards

improvements o !at "ou !ave ri/!t no.

AR: 9ell' >*ll tell "ou t!at m" core /oal o Armor" !as een securit" at all costs' and a lot o people see

t!at' ecause t!e" ind t!at "ou !ave to reall" ant to use Armor" to use it. > mean' t!ere*s a lot o

issues li,e it! RAM resources. People !ave actuall" /one and up/rade t!eir computers ust to e ale run

Armor". 9e*re actuall" nearin/ ver" close to solvin/ a !ole unc! o t!ose issues' all at once. +!at isn*t

resolved "et' so at t!is moment i "ou*re /ettin/ e;cited aout Armor" and "ou !ave less t!an 5 /i/s o

RAM' "ou ma" !ave diiculties runnin/ t!e current version. +!at*s ecause t!e usailit" aspect !asn*t

een our priorit". Ri/!t no' e*re tr"in/ to ill t!e nic!e' somet!in/ t!at ma;imies securit" and

!atever it ta,es' and part o t!at is !en "ou*re tal,in/ aout runnin/ Bitcoin + in t!e ac,/round'it*s ecause t!at is t!e saest a"' and t!e most secure a" to communicate it! t!e Bitcoin netor,.

>t could ta,e me mont!s' and mont!s' and mont!s to re-implement t!at and it ouldn*t e as /ood'

and it ould !ave securit" las. As muc! as people don*t li,e runnin/ Bitcoin + in t!e ac,/round' i

"ou*re reall" usin/ t!e app ecause "ou ant t!e securit" and t!e privac"' t!at*s !at "ou need to do.

ABL: So Alan' or someone !o*s never used Armor" eore or !as reall" ust een e;posed to t!e Satos!i

client' !ic! is t!at deault client t!at ever"od" donloads t!e irst time. Can "ou e;plain !at some o

t!e ase eatures t!at dierentiate Armor" rom ot!er allets out t!ere8


8/21

AR: > t!in, t!e most important eature o Armor" is t!e ac,ups. >t*s ,ind o diicult to descrie !at*s

reall" /oin/ on under t!e !ood. +!e Satos!i client' Bitcoin + - !atever "ou ant to call it... > is! t!e

came up it! a etter name t!an t!at - randoml" /enerates addresses' t!e" /enerate a pool o t!em' and

!en t!e" run out o t!at pool' it ma,es more' ut it*s not deterministic' !ic! means t!at i "ou ere to restore

"our allet to a previous version and re/enerate t!ose addresses' "ou*d /et dierent addresses.

+!at*s a serious prolem in terms o ac,ups. $ne o t!e t!in/s t!at > t!in, is most important or people*s

securit"' ot! securit" rom ot!er people and securit" rom t!emselves' is ein/ ale to do ac,ups' and

people are ver" ad at persistent ac,ups' so Armor" implements a one-time ac,up s"stem t!at*s as secure

as t!e met!od t!at Bitcoin + uses. >n act' Bitcoin + and all t!e ot!er clients are movin/ to a similar

sc!eme. Armor" !as !ad t!at or to "ears' !ere "ou ma,e "our allet t!e irst time and t!en "ou can print

o a s!eet o paper' or i "ou don*t !ave a printer' "ou can rite don t!e data on a s!eet o paper' and t!at*s

all "ou need ever. Iou can use millions and illions o addresses' send and receive mone" as muc! as "ou

ant. 1o matter !at !appens' t!at piece o paper ill ala"s recover "our mone".

ABL: 9!" are "ou ale to do t!is !ere t!e Satos!i client is not8

AR: >t*s not a matter o capailit"' it*s a matter o priorities. >t ill e a prett" dramatic c!an/e or t!e

Satos!i client to implement t!at ecause it involves over!aulin/ t!eir allet code' !ic! is ver"' ver"

sensitive code. +!ere*s somet!in/ called B>P &3 - Bitcoin >mprovement Proposal. B>P &3 actuall"

speciies a similar sc!eme and all o t!e allet developers !ave committed to implementin/ t!at. >t*s ust

> rote Armor" it! t!at rom t!e start - not B>P &3' ut related' so > rote Armor" rom t!e start it!

t!is sc!eme in place - > didn*t !ave to modi" an"t!in/ to implement it. >n one a"' t!at as one o m"

motivations or startin/ Armor" - "ou*d di/ t!rou/! t!e orums and "ou*d see people eit!er

losin/ mone" ecause o stale ac,ups' or overrote ac,ups' or somet!in/. +!ere*s ust so man" a"s ort!at to /o ron/' and t!at i "ou*re protectin/ a lot o mone"' "ou reall" ust ant simple and eas"'

and it*s ver" eas" to ust print o a ac,up once it! Armor" and t!en or/et aout it. o put it in a sae

deposit o;' and never t!in, aout it a/ain.


9/21

ABL: So' one o t!e ot!er t!in/s t!at Armor" !as innovated recentl" - or it*s comin/ out ver" soon' is t!is

idea o ra/mented ac,ups' and > t!in, "ou*re t!e irst implementation o t!em' ri/!t8

AR: Ies' > elieve so.

ABL: >s t!at t!e ri/!t term or it8 >*m callin/ t!em ra/mented ac,ups. > don*t ,no i t!ere*s an oicial

term.

AR: +!at*s a term t!at >*ve used in Armor"' t!e real term or it is S!amir*s Secret S!arin/. >t*s called

secret splittin/' !ere "ou can split a piece o data' !ic! in t!is case is "our ac,up. Iou*d normall" print a

sin/le piece o paper and t!at s!eet o paper protects "our allet. Iou can use t!at s!eet o paper to

recover "our unds and time in t!e uture. -But' people !o !ave concerns aout p!"sical securit"' don*t

li,e t!e idea t!at t!ere*s a sin/le point o ailure' t!at someone !o /ets t!is piece o paper can

instantl" ta,e all o "our mone". +!ere*s a common cr"pto/rap!ic tec!ni?ue called S!amir*s secret

s!arin/' and >*ve laeled it ra/mented ac,ups' so t!at t!is one s!eet o paper "ou ould normall" print'

instead mi/!t e t!ree s!eets o paper and an" to o t!em is suicient or recoverin/ "our allet' and

t!at reall"' reall" increases t!e p!"sical securit". Iou ma" ,eep one at !ome or a sae deposit o;' or /ive

one to "our parents to !old onto or' ur" it in "our ac,"ard or !atever. +!at /ives "ou t!e capailit"

t!at i someone /oes di//in/ in "our ac,"ard or t!e" snoop in sae deposit o;es' t!e" still can*t /et t!e

coins.

ABL: Ho does t!is compare' in terms o securit"' to somet!in/ li,e a di/ital ac,up on eit!er anot!er !ard

drive or anot!er computer. > mean' do "ou t!in, t!at it*s ust lat out etter to !ave p!"sical copies o

ac,ups re/ardless o !et!er it*s ra/mented or ust a sin/le piece8

AR: Asolutel". #i/ital copies are not /oin/ to e nearl" as reliale as p!"sical pieces o paper' and not to

mention t!at di/ital copies are di/ital' !ic! means t!at t!e" are stored in places t!at a lot o people

ant to encr"pt it and put it online' or store it in #ropo; or some ot!er place. A lot o issues ecause "ou put

to a FSB ,e" ut "ou don*t ,no !et!er in to "ears t!at FSB ,e" is /oin/ to or,. So' "ou ma,e a couple

dierent copies' and "ou spread t!em around. >t*s rat!er suoptimal to do it t!at a". 9e elieve t!at

ein/ ale to !ave a p!"sical piece o paper t!at can*t e accessed rom an"one on t!e >nternet' t!at "ou

can ust tuc, aa" in a sae deposit o;' or "ou ,no on "our oo,s!el' is reall" t!e est a" to secure

"oursel.

ABL: $ne o t!e ot!er t!in/s t!at Armor" does t!at*s sort o dierent rom a lot o t!e ot!er allets out

t!ere' is it /ives "ou t!e ailit" to maintain multiple allets and !ave a lot o control over !at eac! one does.

Iou !ave individual coin control so t!at "ou can' !en "ou*re ma,in/ a transaction' actuall" pic, !ic! inputs

- i "ou ant to /et t!is deepl" into it' !ic! sometimes > do - t!at /ets sent out so t!at "ou can control "our

privac" lea,s and stu li,e t!at. #o "ou t!in, t!at most users' or t!at a normal user is /oin/ to use multiple

allets' movin/ orard8 > mean' > use ei/!t' ut > t!in, >*m prett" anormal as ar as most people are

concerned.


10/21

AR: > t!in, t!e capailit" to use multiple allets is ver" poerul. >t /ives muc! clearer separation o

unds' especiall" i "ou*re tal,in/ aout t!e ot!er eature o Armor" !ic! is t!e !ol" /rail eature' ein/

ale to ,eep some mone" oline' in an oline allet or e;tra securit". Iou !ave to alance "our

convenience and "our securit". Iou ant to ,eep t!e maorit" o "our unds in a super-secure allet'

!ic! mi/!t e an oline allet' ut !en "ou*re ust online and "ou ant to u" somet!in/ small' "ou

don*t ant to !ave to /o t!rou/! t!at inconvenience o accessin/ t!e oline computer. -So' ein/ ale to

,eep multiple dierent allets or dierent purposes is /ood. 9e*d li,e to eventuall" inte/rate a moile app'

and ten "ou*d e ale to trac, t!e moile allet rom "our computer' and reill it or seep t!e mone" out o it

i "ou lost "our p!one or somet!in/ li,e t!at. +!at*s a eature eneit o !avin/ t!is ,ind o multi-allet

interace or desi/n. Iou can use it not onl" or "our on allets. Iou can use it or atc!in/ ot!er

peoples* allets. Li,e "our p!one allet or multi-si/ allets - t!at are not developed "et. But' to e ale to

create addresses t!at re?uire multiple si/natures "ou need to e ale to see ot!er people*s allets.

+!e" ill /ive "ou t!ose or t!at purpose. > don*t ,no' do an" o t!e ot!er clients !ave multiple allets8 > don*t

t!in, so.

ABL: > don*t t!in, so' no. > t!in, t!at "ou can do it' ut it !as more to do it! sappin/ "our allet.dat

ile and creatin/ an actual ne allet and ust sappin/ t!e iles ac, and ort!. >*ve done t!at in t!e

past. +!e creatin/ atc!in/ onl" copies o t!e allets is reall" interestin/. > ust set t!at up or our C%$ to

atc! all o t!e accounts t!at !e needs to e atc!in/. >t as a ver" eas" process. #id > miss an" o

t!e relevant eatures t!at e s!ould /o over no' eore tal,in/ aout uture development8

AR: > mean' > t!in, it*s ort! emp!asiin/ t!e oline allets eature ust ecause it is somet!in/ t!at*s

mostl" uni?ue to Armor" and it*s one o t!e reasons !" people use Armor". >t*s t!e core reason people

use it.

ABL: >*ve never used it or t!at' to e perectl" !onest it! "ou. >*ve used t!e ac,ups eore' ut > !aven*t

done t!e si/nin/ on anot!er computer. Can e tal, aout t!at8 -So' t!e idea is to /et "our private ,e"s o o

a computer t!at !as access to t!e internet ecause i t!e computer !as access to t!e internet' t!an t!at

means t!e internet !as access to it' !ic! means t!at "ou mi/!t e vulnerale to viruses' or a !ac,er' or

somet!in/ li,e t!at. -So' !o e;actl" ould > ma,e a transaction it! an oline alance in t!is a"8

AR: >*m /oin/ to s,ip over t!e details o settin/ up t!e allet or a second' ust so "ou can appreciate t!e

process. $nce it*s set up' people sa" ell' i it*s oline !o do "ou send mone"8 And' t!e a" it or,s is

t!at t!e allet s!os up in "our online computer' it loo,s identical. Besides !avin/ a dierent color' and it ill

e laeled oline' and "ou*ll e ale to see all o "our alances on "our online computer' "ou*ll e ale to /ive

out pa"ment addresses so people can pa" "ou' it reall" e!aves e;actl" li,e an" ot!er allet


11/21

in terms o veri"in/ pa"ments and all t!at. +!e dierence is !en "ou actuall" /o to send mone"' ust

li,e "ou ould it! a re/ular !ot allet' "ou*ll still e ale to ill out all t!e recipients and ever"t!in/' ut

t!ere ill e no send utton' ecause t!e data t!at "ou need to send t!e transactions is not on t!at

computer' and t!is is t!e poer o it is' "ou can still do ever"t!in/ "ou ould do it! a re/ular allet' ut

"ou can*t send t!e mone"' !ic! means t!at someone !o accesses "our computer can*t send t!e mone"

eit!er. >nstead o sendin/ t!em mone"' t!e utton ill save t!e data to a FSB ,e" and "ou ust ta,e t!at FSB

,e" to t!e oline computer "ou !it si/n' "ou rin/ it ac, and "ou !it roadcast' and t!at*s !o t!e

transaction*s completed. > "ou !ave t!e computer*s ri/!t ne;t to eac! ot!er - t!is computer t!at*s never

touc!ed t!e internet t!at !as t!e allet on it - "ou can do it in literall" =4 to t*s ver" ?uic,.

Rat!er t!an !ittin/ send' it*s ust /oin/ to save to t!e FSB ,e". Pop it out' put it in t!e ot!er computer si/n it

rin/ it ac,' !it roadcast. $nce "ou do it proal" 3 or & times' it ecomes a reee.

ABL: +!at does sound eas"' actuall". > assumed it as a muc! more diicult process' ut "ea!' t!at

sounds reall" simple. Are t!ere an" ea,nesses to t!at approac! esides t!e act t!at "ou actuall" !ave to

do steps t!at involve somet!in/ outside o "our computer8

AR: +!is is deinitel" to orders o ma/nitude etter t!an an"t!in/

else out t!ere.

ABL: So t!e ounder o Armor" allets sa"s t!at ased on current availale tec!nolo/"' it*s aN secure a"

to store "our Bitcoins and still !ave t!em availale to transact in a relativel" !assle-ree a".

AR: Asolutel"' t!ere ust reall" isn*t an"t!in/ etter. +!is can e improved incrementall" " improvin/

"our processes or settin/ up "our oline computer. -Also' FSB ,e"s are not t!e est t!in/ in t!e orld or

accessin/ secure s"stems. > ould muc! preer people use FSB ,e"s or onlineOoline computers and

!ave t!em ust ,eep it online ecause it*s too inconvenient ot!erise. Alt!ou/! FSB ,e"s' t!e mec!anism

or movin/ data ac, and ort! eteen t!e computers' is not ideal' it*s still ar etter t!an sa"in/ o!'

t!is is too complicated' > *m ust /oin/ to ,eep it online ecause it*s easier. 9e*re actuall" or,in/ on

developin/ some ot!er mec!anisms or t!e people !o desire even more securit" or movin/ t!e data

ac, and ort! it!out t!e caveats o FSB ,e"s.

ABL: 9!at do "ou t!in, o t!e !ardare devices e*ve started to see appear8 +!e irst one ould e t!e

+reor' !ic! > elieve eit!er ust came out or is ust aout to come out. >s t!is a /ood replacement' is

t!is a dierent tec!ni?ue' or is it ust an improvement to t!e tec!ni?ue ecause instead o !avin/ a ull-lon

computer "ou ust !ave a dedicated device8

AR: > ould sa" t!at t!e"*re a 4K solution. > elieve t!e"*re an advancement or Bitcoin tec!nolo/".

+!e" ill e ver" eas" it! a +reor or' > ,no at one point Butterl" Las as creatin/ somet!in/ called

BitSave' ut > !aven*t !eard aout t!at in a !ile. 9it! t!ose devices "ou /et most t!e eneits o an

oline computer' and i t!e application is set up ri/!t - or instance' Armor" ill e supportin/ +reor - >t


12/21

s!ould e ver" simple' !oever it doesn*t ?uite !ave t!e same conidence level o settin/ up "our on

s"stem. >n t!is case "ou*d e usin/ Armor" and "ou*d e usin/ t!is !ardare device' t!ere*s a lot o

concerns t!at t!e device ma" not actuall" e secure' or ma" not !ave t!e same irmare or sotare t!at

t!e developers !ave said it does' !et!er maliciousl" or accidentall". > don*t ant to discredit t!em at

all' it*s ust t!at rom a securit" perspective "ou ant as simple a process as possile' a process o

movin/ "our mone" and t!e more pieces "ou rin/ into t!e process' t!e more places "ou*ve opened up

securit" vulnerailities.

ABL: Ri/!t' t!e more places "ou !ave t!e potential or somet!in/ to /o ron/' so even i t!e" !ave /ood

intentions' it*s still' ecause it*s a standardied piece o !ardare t!at*s speciicall" intended or t!is

purpose' could e compromised eit!er internall" or e;ternall".

AR: #on*t /et me ron/' > still elieve t!at it*s /oin/ to e dramaticall" etter t!an ,eepin/ t!e mone" on

an online computer. +!ere*s ust so man" a"s or t!at to /o ron/' and > t!in, it*s ine or a little it o

cas!' and it*s convenient and all t!at. > t!in, t!e !ardare allets are /oin/ to ill demands' somet!in/

t!at*s in !i/! demand' !ic! is a nice compromise eteen /ettin/ t!e ull oline computer and ,eepin/

ever"t!in/ online. +!e ne;t t!in/ aout t!e oline computer is "ou /et a !ole lot o e;tra le;iilit"' "ou

can do a lot more mana/ement' "ou !ave a lot more control over t!e allets it! t!e recent

vulnerailities in random numer /enerators' e*ll e addin/ somet!in/ li,e #ice or card s!ulin/ to

reduce "our reliance on t!e random numer /enerator in "our computer' !ic! !as een ound to not e as

secure as people !ave !oped.

ABL: Iou too, t!e recent revelations aout t!e random numers not ein/ so random' as a reason to start

or, toards implementin/ solutions t!at don*t even use a random numer /enerator. +!at*s ver" cool t!at*s

/reat' Alan.

AR: -And part o t!at comes rom our users' as soon as somet!in/ comes out' nes t!at sa"s Bitcoins

ere compromised in t!is app' t!e irst t!in/ t!at !appens is > /et 34 emails sa"in/ o!' m" od' is t!is a

prolem it! t!e Armor"8 Are "ou secure' did "ou ,no aout t!is8 Some people are !oldin/ a lot o

mone".

ABL: Iea! .

AR: -And t!e" ant to ma,e sure t!e"*re covered' so >*ve !ad t!is idea or a !ile' actuall"' t!en all t!ese

1SA revelations and securit" vulnerailities !ave reall" pus!ed it up on t!e priorit" list or us.

ABL: 9!at !as it een li,e /oin/ rom !avin/ t!is e an open source proect t!at "ou*re or,in/ on in

"our spare time " "oursel' to somet!in/ !ere eventuall" "ou*ll e ale to ma,e it "our ull-time o and

t!en no' are rin/in/ on additional people. > mean' !o is t!at een' is t!is !ere "ou e;pected to ind

"oursel a couple "ears don t!e road !en "ou started t!is8


13/21

AR: 9ell' certainl" !en > started t!is' > didn*t e;pect to end up !ere' in act !en > started t!is' > asn*t

even plannin/ to release end-user sotare. > as ust creatin/ tools or anal"in/ t!e loc,c!ain'

anal"in/ t!e netor, and pla"in/ it! various concepts > as learnin/' and it*s slol" evolved into !at

it is no. > anticipated it ould ust e a lon/ term open source proect. +!ere*s a lot o t!em out t!ere'

t!at are developed " ust a couple people t!at persist and people are !app" it! t!em -- not maor

proects' ut little proects and > !ad anticipated t!is to e a little proect' ut > didn*t see Bitcoin /ettin/

as i/ as it is /ettin/ and it deinitel" deserves ull time attention to me no. > ill admit t!at t!in/s

!ave een ver" slo. >*ve deinitel" een a lot more distracted t!an > e;pected to e. +!ere is so muc!

le/al process' and so man" steps in /oin/ t!rou/! t!e incorporation' especiall" !en "ou*re doin/ an actual

corporation rat!er t!an ust an LLC' and "ou*re settin/ out dierent s!are classes and suc!. +!ere*s a

!ole unc! o a/reements and le/al stu' and also doin/ recruitin/' /ettin/ "our oo,s set up' stu li,e

t!at !as een ust a lot more over!elmin/ t!an > e;pected. > ,no a lot o users !ave een

disappointed t!at > !aven*t een ale to /et our t!e latest release !ic! solves a lot o resource issues' ut >

promise "ou /u"s it*s comin/ soon. A lot o t!ose t!in/s are out o t!e a" no' so e can ocus on

t!e actual development' and e !ave a couple ne /u"s !o are !elpin/ out' alt!ou/! t!e" are still in t!e

learnin/ p!ase' t!e" are acceleratin/ !at is !appenin/ on' on t!e development p!ase.

ABL: So' !at are "ou or,in/ toards ri/!t no it! t!e team !o it is8 9!at are t!e priorities "ou are

ocused on at t!is point8

AR: +!e current version o Armor"' 4.55.2 it*s een t!ere' it*s een on t!e esite or t!e past si;

mont!s. +!at version ill ta,e aout = /i/s o RAM' !ic! is enormous' and it*ll scan t!e loc,c!ain on

ever" load' !ic! can ta,e an"!ere rom & minutes to &4 minutes. -So' rememer !en > as tal,in/

aout convenience and securit"' and ma;imiin/ securit" at t!e cost o convenience - ell' "ou can see"ou need a stron/ computer and "ou need a ait a !ile' ever" time "ou start it. 9e*re inall" /ettin/ around

to i;in/ t!at' t!in/s li,e Satos!i #ice and ust t!e /eneral /rot! o t!e netor, !as accelerated t!is

prolem muc! aster t!an > !ave e;pected' so no t!is !as ecome t!e priorit". +!e ne version or

!ic! t!ere*s a testin/ version out ri/!t no' uses 344-&44 MB o RAM. >t uses proal" 2O34t! t!e

amount o RAM and it s!ould e ver" constant' so "ou could even use it on Gre/ular computer'G and it

saves all t!e data eteen loads so it can start up in less t!an a minute' and re?uentl" muc! aster t!an t!at.

+!is is a !u/e improvement or Armor"' it*s ust t!at at t!e moment t!ere*s still some usailit" u/s

in t!ere t!at e !ave to /et or,ed out' it! some cras!es' and ne data structure is corrupted - or

somet!in/ li,e t!at. So' e*re or,in/ on /ettin/ t!at out e !ope in t!e ne;t couple ee,s. $ course' no

one*s /oin/ to elieve me !en > sa" in t!e ne;t couple ee,s' ecause >*ve said t!at a lot o times.

ABL: Dust sa" soon. Dust sa" it*ll e out soon' (lau/!in/)

AR: >t*ll e out soon.


14/21

ABL: So once t!e RAM prolem*s dealt it!' so' !" e;actl" !as t!is een suc! a prolem' ecause > don*t

t!in, it*s a prolem or man" ot!er allet clients is it' !at are "ou doin/ dierentl" t!at turned t!is into

a prolem8

AR: Rememer !en > said t!is as reall" more o a !o"ist proect8 >t asn*t even intended to e end-

user sotare !en > started it. +!e a" t!e en/ine as ritten' it as not meant to e scalale' and it

or,ed /reat or t!e irst "ear o actuall" ein/ an end user product ut' it ust didn*t !ave t!e scalailit"

t!ere. > as o,a" it! it ecause t!e /rot! o t!e netor, didn*t loo, li,e it as t!at ast so > said

o,a"' >*ll !ave plent" o time to /et all t!ese /reat eatures developed "ou ,no' t!en > can up/rade t!at.

+!e netor, /re so muc! aster t!an > anticipated' and it reall" as not desi/ned or t!at rom t!e start.

-So' it as ust a decision t!at as made earl"-on in t!e development process eore > even ,ne

t!is as /oin/ to turn into a idel"-used application' and eore > realied !o ast t!e Bitcoin netor, as

/oin/ to /ro.

ABL: So' in t!e ne;t couple o mont!s e*re /oin/ to see t!e release o Bitcoin .< or Bitcoin # . !ad a pa"ment /oin/ to me instead o it

/oin/ to one o m" addresses' it ould s!o up or t!e person pa"in/ me as ust send to Adam Levine' or

!atever m" moni,er is on t!ere. Can "ou tal, to me aout !at t!e si/niicance o t!is is' and > mean'

are t!ere an" t!in/s "ou see ron/ it! it' or is t!is t!e ri/!t a" to /o8

AR: 9ell >*ll tell "ou' >*ve assi/ned one o our ne /u"s to asicall" e t!e /u" t!at deals it! pa"ment

protocol. >*m onl" aare at t!e top level !at it*s doin/ so > can*t spea, too intelli/entl" on it' ot!er t!an t!at>*m all or t!e /ist o !at it*s doin/ and t!e idea o addin/ conidence to t!e pa"ment process. Bein/

ale' !en someone sends "ou an email t!at sa"s send mone" to t!is address' "ou reall" don*t !ave an"

conidence. > mean' "ou !ave conidence t!at it*s ri/!t' ut it*s eas" or an intelli/ent attac,er to

manipulate t!e s"stem and t!is reall" dramaticall" increases t!e amount o eort to manipulate t!e

s"stem and divert unds. +!ere*s a lot o deate and > ant to call it controvers"' ut a lot o concern

t!at it*s ein/ uilt on tec!nolo/ies - li,e SSL - !en "ou /o to an H++PS esite' a secure esite it*s uild

on t!e same t!in/' !ic! !asn*t !ad t!e est !istor" especiall" in recent li/!t o all t!e 1SA activities'

ut is reall" t!e est t!in/ out t!ere in terms o idespread use and adoption' and so e*re ust

pi//"ac,in/ on t!at to improve t!e conidence o mone" ein/ moved around.

ABL: $ne o t!e t!in/s > t!ou/!t as interestin/ aout it as t!at in t!e pa"ment protocol t!ere are t!ird

parties t!at veri" t!e address and name o t!e person' asicall"' !ic! is !at "ou*re tal,in/ aout'

t!ere are some prolems it! li,e' t!e certiicate aut!orit" !as een accused o not ein/ a tremendousl"

eective s"stem. $ne o t!e t!in/s >*ve noticed is t!at ust aout an"od" !o !as trust can ecome one o

t!ese certiicate aut!orities. So' > mean does t!at mean li,e' Let*s +al, Bitcoin' it! our listeners and all


15/21

t!is stu' could start issuin/ certiicates to people ased on. > mean could e do t!at - ould t!at

or, it! t!is s"stem8

AR: Fnortunatel"' > can*t tal, too muc! aout t!at. +!at*s a little loer level t!an > ,no' ut !at > ill

tell "ou is t!at it*s intended to asicall" pi//"ac, on t!e e;istin/ certiicate aut!orit" s"stem' so t!at

an" certiicate aut!orit" !enever "ou /o to an" secure esite' H++PS' and "ou don*t /et an error

s!oin/ up t!ere' it*s ecause t!ere*s a certiicate aut!orit" some!ere' some compan" t!at !as vouc!ed

or t!e identit" o t!at esite' and tec!nicall" "ou s!ould e ale to do t!e e;act same t!in/ it! t!e

pa"ment protocol. Merc!ants s!ould e ale to /o and essentiall" /et a si/nature rom t!e same

certiicate aut!orities to vouc! or t!eir identit". Hoever' > ,no t!at it as also desi/ned to e

e;tensile so t!at "ou can !ave ot!er es o trust used. > don*t ,no t!at muc! aout !o easil" t!e"*ll e

used' ut > ,no t!at > !ave rou/!t up some o m" on used cases or aut!enticatin/ merc!ants' !ic!

e plan to do at some point' and e ere told t!at it is e;tensile or t!at' and t!at*s one o t!e reasons

!" > /ot one o m" /u"s loo,in/ at t!at no i/urin/ out !o to implement it' and !o to e;tend it to do

!at e need it to do.

ABL: -So Armor" ill support pa"ment protocol at some point in t!e uture' t!en8

AR: Ies .

ABL: 9ell' t!e time ala"s lies Alan' ut can "ou s!are it! us t!e plans t!at Armor" +ec!nolo/ies' or t!e

lon/er term development o "our product' and > mean' is t!is /oin/ to e t!e onl" product t!at Armor"

+ec!nolo/ies develops' or ill t!ere e ot!ers8

AR: So' e deinitel" !ave plans or developin/ a moile app' not ust an app separated rom ever"t!in/

else. > mean' e ant to !ave ,ind o a continuous s"stem !ere all o "our devices are aare o eac!

ot!er' and e !ave some ideas o !o to do t!at' so t!at "ou can !ave "our allet on "our p!one' and "ou

can !ave "our allet on "our computer' and "ou could !ave per!aps multi-si/nature' "ou !ave accounts

t!at are s!ared " "ou and "our ie' or "ou and "our riends' or oard o directors o a compan" - t!at ,ind

o t!in/. +!is is all in t!e uture' ut e see it as all part o armor"' armor" itsel is /oin/ to e simpl"

e;pandin/ to asor all o t!ese ne use cases. $ne o t!e i/ t!in/s e*re or,in/ on is' e*re /oin/ to

do t!at !ardare allet inte/ration' e ant to e supportin/ t!ose !ardare allets as soon as t!e"

come out. > don*t ,no i e*ll ma,e it in time' ut s!ortl" aterards e*ll !ave support or t!at' and "ou*ll

e ale to /o to t!e +reor esite and /et a +reor' and it*ll or, nativel" it! Armor". Lon/er-term' e

plan to innovate t!e multi-si/nature transactions' and e elieve t!is is asolutel" critical or i//er

companies' more ealt!" parties to /et involved' ecause as it stands t!e onl" a" to use Bitcoin is it!

mone" t!at re?uires a sin/le si/nature to move' and t!at*s ust too ra/ile or companies or individuals t!at

are !oldin/ ver" lar/e sums o mone". +!e" ant separation o duties' t!e increased securit" o !avin/ to

re?uire multiple pieces to come to/et!er to move mone"' and so ar it loo,s li,e Armor" ill e t!e one to


16/21

innovate t!at. 9e*re alread" t!e compan" t!at produces t!e product t!at people trust or securit" and

t!at*s a ver" natural transition' to ,ind o innovate t!at aspect o t!in/s and /ive people access to t!is ver"

valuale tool.

ABL: Alan' i someod" ants to /et involved it! t!e proect' or donload "our sotare' !at are t!e

means to do t!at8

AR: 9ell "ou can /o to.itcoinarmor".com - in act' e /ot a ne esite so it loo,s snaier' "ou can

/o to Bitcoinarmor".com on t!e ront o t!e pa/e t!ere*s a i/ oran/e utton t!at sa"s donload no it*s

availale or 9indos' Linu; and most o Mac' i "ou*re on a Mac > can tell "ou t!at' lip a coin and i it

comes up !eads it*ll or, lalessl" or "ou' and i not' "ou mi/!t !ave to ait.

ABL: Iea!' > actuall" anted to as, aout t!at. > tried to install it on a mac "esterda" and > !ad mi;ed

results. >s t!at somet!in/ t!at "ou*re /oin/ to e ocused on in t!e ne;t couple mont!s8

AR: Ies' e actuall" !ave a couple leads on !o to i; t!at issue. >t*s on t!e list. 9e !ave some resources

devoted to it so' it deinitel" or,s on 9indos and Linu; and it mi/!t or, on "our Mac. >*d sa" 4K o

people report laless unctionalit"' and t!e ot!er 4K sa" t!at t!e" can*t even start it' so i

"ou*re luc," "ou can use it on Mac' a ne version s!ould e out soon' so i "ou*re on a s"stem t!at doesn*t

!ave as muc! RAM' "ou can ait a little it and e*ll !ave a version or "ou soon.

ABL: Have "ou inis!ed "our !irin/ since /ettin/ unded' or are "ou still loo,in/ or an" positions8

AR: Actuall" no' e !aven*t inis!ed t!e !irin/' e !ave a pool o applicants. > /uess > can use t!isopportunit" to advertise t!at e ouldn*t mind some more applicants !o !ave a stron/ tec!nical

ac,/round and seriousl" committed to solvin/ un prolems. 9e t!in, t!at t!ere*s a lot o un prolems to e

solved !ere and /et on t!e leedin/ ed/e o t!is emer/in/ ne tec!nolo/" and i t!at*s t!e case i

an"one out t!ere !as super!ero developer status and "ou*re loo,in/ to c!an/e os e*ll e !app" to

entertain and "ou can send "our resume to supportBitcoinarmor".com or inoBitcoinarmor".com' and

e*ll /et in touc! it! "ou. At t!e moment' e !ave aout 6 or people involved' ut e*re still loo,in/ or a

couple more.

ABL: Alan Reiner' ounder and C7$ o Armor" +ec!nolo/ies. $nce a/ain' t!an,s ver" muc! or oinin/ us'and loo, orard to continuin/ to see "our or,@

(Music Pla"s)

#R: Hi' Step!anie !ere. MISSING DATA
http://www.bitcoinarmory.com/http://www.bitcoinarmory.com/http://www.bitcoinarmory.com/


17/21

AS: MISSING DATAare remote procedure commands' so Bitcoind /ives "ou an astracted AP>into t!e Bitcoin*s ecos"stem t!at*s ver" eas" to pro/ram a/ainst a vast maorit" o clients t!at sit on top o

Bitcoind communicate it! it usin/ t!is simple AP>.

#R: Adam !asn*t read t!is "et' ut it sa"s t!e RPC client code is eventuall" /oin/ to e removed rom

Bitcoind8

AS: >t*s puttin/ a separate e;ecutale so asicall" a lot o t!is is aout modulariin/ and containin/ t!ese

t!in/s into t!eir on s"stems. +!e prolem is t!at ri/!t no Bitcoind is one i/ !airall o code. Let me

clari" t!at. >t started o as an enormous i/ !airall o code and !as /raduall" een /ettin/ etter and

etter in terms o modularit". +!is is /reat nes' ecause i "ou modularit" t!ese components' it allos

ot!er s"stems to reimplement t!em to replace t!em or to onl" run t!e its t!at t!e" need' and t!at ould

spur lots o innovation. >t also means t!at t!ere*s a lot less dependenc" on !avin/ t!e ull and complete

reerence client or an"t!in/ "ou need to do and ill allo "ou to /raduall" per!aps move to a more multi-

platorm' multi-client s"stem.

#R: $,a" t!at ma,es a lot o sense. > ust !ave one more ?uestion. 9!" ould someone ant to

run t!e Bitcoin client it!out runnin/ a allet8

AS: Actuall"' > run t!e Bitcoin client it!out a allet all t!e time. %or e;ample' i "ou*re runnin/ a pa"ment

service' "ou don*t necessaril" ant t!e allet on t!e node t!at*s processin/ transactions rom t!e outside

!ic! is acin/ t!e internet. Iou mi/!t actuall" !ave to Bitcoin implementations - one t!at*s simpl" actin/

as a node on t!e netor,' passin/ inormation ac, and ort!' it*s "our /atea" into t!e netor, - an

ed/e router as avin put it. +!e ot!er t!in/ is t!at t!e Bitcoind s"stem is t!e de acto reerence client

or validatin/ transaction. A transaction reac!es consensus i all o t!e current versions o Bitcoind sa"s it

reac!es consensus' so t!e onl" t!in/ "ou need to ,no as a developer is !et!er consensus !appen' does t!e

Bitcoind t!in/ li,e it8 reat' t!en it*s acceptale. +!at means "ou !ave to run Bitcoind to do all o t!e

transaction validation' ut "ou don*t ala"s ant t!e allet on t!e same s"stem or securit" reasons. +!is

allos "ou to separate rom a sin/le-tier monolit!ic application t!at does ever"t!in/ to ma,in/ a multi-

tier application !avin/ an ed/e router it! Bitcoind t!at onl" does node or,. +!en "ou !ave an RPC client

t!at*s sittin/ urt!er inside t!e netor, can onl" e accessed rom internal s"stems and /ives "ou a

pro/rammatic interace' and t!en a" in t!e ac, o t!e netor, protected it! irealls "ou !ave t!e

allet application t!at isn*t runnin/ an" o t!e ot!er t!in/s and onl" !andles allet unctions li,e si/nin/

transactions it! ,e"s' and t!at /ives "ou t!ree tiers. Iou !ave nice separation o unctions' it*s /ood or

securit"' it*s /ood or perormance' and it*s /ood or scalin/.

ABL: Iou can also ,ind o t!in, aout it li,e t!e a" t!at Apple used to do t!eir !ardare relative to t!e

PC mar,et t!at e ,no toda". Ri/!t no' t!e a" t!at Bitcoind is set up' "ou can u" a computer or no

computer' ut !at e*re movin/ toards is a s"stem !ere "ou can' "ou ,no u" RAM' a dierent


18/21

monitor - u" various t!in/s t!at allo "ou to ta,e t!at tec!nolo/" and inte/rate it it! somet!in/ else'

or create somet!in/ "oursel and t!en uild on top o it usin/ t!e numers t!at "ou ant as opposed to ust

!avin/ t!e option o !avin/ all or not!in/.

AS: Iea!' t!e prolem it! t!e all or not!in/ is reall" not!in/ isn*t reall" an option ecause "ou can*t do

an"t!in/ on t!e main netor, it!out reerrin/ to Bitcoind*s validation capailit". So eectivel"' i "ou did

an"t!in/ "ou did ever"t!in/' it as ala"s all' and t!at as a prolem. Iou !ad to ta,e t!e Bitcoind and

run ever"t!in/ in one place' and no most people ould do t!at it! an empt" allet !ic! is etter t!an

!avin/ a allet it! mone" in it ut it still means "ou*re runnin/ all o t!e over!ead o t!e code plus i t!ere

are u/s in t!at code "ou*re no e;posin/ t!at to t!e internet to e e;ploited. +!e less code "ou e;pose "

turnin/ it o' t!e etter.

ABL: Plus or t!e avera/e user' > mean' > run Armor" allet and > !ave to !ave a cop" o t!e Satos!i client

runnin/ in t!e ac,/round ecause it as simpl" so muc! easier or t!em to ust use t!e e;istin/ client

or t!at t"pe o unctionalit" connectin/ t!an it as to uild it into t!eir on s"stem' ecause t!ere as a

lot o comple;it" it! t!at. Additionall"' !at t!e"*re tal,in/ aout isn*t t!e onl" implementation o

Bitcoin out t!ere. +!ere*s anot!er one called liitcoin t!at !asn*t seen a lot o distriution ut is in t!e

inal sta/es o development t!at Amir +aa,i*s een or,in/ on or t!e last to "ears' t!at asicall" alread"

does t!is' alread" !as loo,ed at t!e prolem and !as said' o,a" rat!er t!an !avin/ one monolit!ic' e*re ust

/oin/ to uild rom t!e /round up - t!e idea t!at all o t!ese t!in/s are individual modular pieces t!at

can e plu//ed to/et!er as "ou see it' ut t!at ultimatel" eac! one is it*s on separate piece' so it*s /ood

to see t!e core development team catc!in/ up it! t!is and movin/ in t!at direction too.

AS: Iea!' and in act it*s reall" important ecause even i "ou !ave competin/ options !ic! are moremodular and etter-desi/ned in order or t!ese competin/ options to remain relevant t!e" !ave to ollo

t!e main reerence client in ever" ?uir, and ever" u/ rom ever" loc, rom t!e enesis loc, 4' in

Au/ust o 344< to toda". 7ver" u/ t!at as ever in t!e client !as to e replicated precisel" so t!at "ou

validate in e;actl" t!e same a" and arrive in t!e same consensus at t!e end o all o t!ese loc,s.

+!at means t!at !en "ou !ad to adopt t!e client and "ou !ad to adopt all o it or none o it' essentiall" it

as ,illin/ innovation development o alternative clients ecause t!ere as too muc! or, to ,eep up it!

a movin/ tar/et. Modularit" ill /reatl"' /reatl" !elp t!e cause o a multi-client Bitcoin netor,.

ABL: Andreas' "ou ,no t!at u/ comment t!at "ou made earlier !ere ever" u/ !as to e replicatedecause ever"t!in/ !as to rec,on ac, to t!at one /enesis loc, - is it possile to ma,e retroactive c!an/es

to t!e Bitcoin s"stem8 Li,e i e anted to eect transactions t!at !appened a "ear a/o' is t!at even

possile8

AS: 1ot reall".

ABL: $,a".


19/21

AS: 9ell' "ou could i "ou asicall" arrive at t!e consensus to i/nore !at*s in t!e loc,c!ain or i/nore

certain transactions' and t!ere are u/s' or e;ample' in t!e loc,c!ain t!ere are transactions t!at reall"

s!ouldn*t !ave een validated and s!ouldn*t !ave ever made it into t!e loc,c!ain' ut ecause t!ere as a

u/ in t!e client' t!e" did. 1o' in order to validate t!at transaction in t!e uture' "ou !ave to reintroduce t!at

u/ or simulate t!at u/ in ever" uture client' so t!at !en it reac!es t!at ro,en transaction it e!aves

e;actl" li,e t!e ro,en client did t!en' and accepts it. So' "ou !ave to repeat t!e mista,es o t!e past in order

to arrive at t!e same consensus o t!e present. +!at*s a prolem. 9e !ave to re-incorporate all t!e u/s.

1o' anot!er a" o doin/ it is c!ec,pointin/' and t!is comes to t!e ne;t topic in t!e list !ic! is !eaders

irst parallel donload c!ain s"nc. 7ssentiall"' !at e*re loo,in/ at is summariin/ parts o

t!e loc,c!ain and ein/ ale to operate aster it! a smaller part o t!e loc,c!ain so "ou don*t !ave to

replicate ever"t!in/.

ABL: +!is one is entitled !eaders-irst parallel donload in s"nc and t!ere*s some te;t !ere' ut t!e idea o

!eaders-irst s"nc is to donload t!e loc,c!ain in to sta/es. $ne' donload ust !eaders rom "our peers'

!ic! is ver" ?uic, ecause eac! loc, !eader is ust 54 "tes' and to' once "ou !ave /ot one or more

c!ains o loc, !eaders' pic, t!e one it! t!e most proo-o-or, and t!en etc! t!e ull loc, or t!at c!ain.

-So asicall"' t!is is tr"in/ to ma,e t!e initial onoardin/ process !ere "ou donload t!e Bitcoin

client or t!e irst time and "ou !ave to /o t!rou/! t!at. Ri/!t no' it*s li,e a one or to da" process

dependin/ on !o ast "our connection is to t!e netor,.

#M: $ne or to ee,.

AS: >t*s no several da"s ecause it*s alread" reac!ed 2 /i/s.

ABL: $!' reall"8

AS: Iep

ABL: So' t!at*s !at t!is is an attempt at' r i/!t8 >t*s tr"in/ to ta,e t!at initial prolem o !avin/ suc! a

!u/e amount o data t!at !as to e donloaded eore a user can even ma,e t!eir irst transaction on an

actual allet t!at*s on t!eir computer. >t*s tr"in/ to ma,e t!at a muc! aster e;perience t!at*s muc! more

eicient' ri/!t8

AS: Ies. > t!in, t!e est a" t!at > can descrie t!is is t!at' !ile Bitcoin*s netor, loo,s muc! li,e t!e

Bittorrent netor,' ecause o t!e constraints o t!e loc,c!ain t!e act t!at in order to validate t!e loc,

"ou !ave to !ave t!e previous loc, or it*s !as!' etc' etc. e !aven*t een ale to ull" e;ploit t!e

Bittorrent li,e capailities' "ou can*t ust /o out and connect to 244 nodes and donload t!e loc,c!ain

parallel rom all o t!em' ecause "ou*ll end up it! multiple loc,c!ains includin/ ones t!at !ave een


20/21

orp!aned and various ot!er t!in/s' and "ou can*t i/ure t!at out until "ou*ve donloaded ever"t!in/. 9!at

t!is proposal does is it allos "ou to incrementall" donload parts t!at are re?uired or validation'

t!e !as! o t!e loc, !eader or e;ample' and t!en not donload t!e ul, o t!e transactions inside until later.

+!at means "ou can validate all o t!e c!ains up to toda" in terms o consistenc" and continuit"' "ou still don*t

!ave all o t!e transactions t!at are in t!e past' and "ou can t!en incrementall" donload t!ose' and "ou can

/et t!em rom multiple clients ecause no "ou !ave one unro,en loc,c!ain' "ou can ust

as, an"od" or eac! one o t!e loc,s. Iou ,no it*s t!e true one and t!at means "ou can no start

e!avin/ a it li,e Bittorrent' /oin/ out as,in/ lots o nodes and /ettin/ a muc! increased andidt! o

returned data' so t!is is /reat nes and ill /reatl" increase t!e speeds it! !ic! ne ull nodes ill

ootstrap into t!e loc,c!ain' and ill e ale to start processin/ t!in/s muc! aster.

ABL: >n our current s"stem e !ave t!en' t!ere*s no parallel donloadin/. Ri/!t no' !en "ou*re

donloadin/ t!e loc,c!ain or t!at irst time' "ou are literall" donloadin/ rom a sin/le node out t!ere8

AS: 1o' not necessaril" rom a sin/le node' ut "ou onl" donload one loc, at a time' "ou start it!

loc, ero' !ic! is encoded in t!e source code o "our client. Iou alread" ,no !at loc, ero is' it*s in

ever" client it*s coded staticall" in t!ere. Iou start it! loc, ero and "ou sa" o,a"' !o*s --

ABL: >t*s c!ronolo/ical.

AS: >t*s c!ronolo/ical. Iou !ave to ootstrap' toda" !at "ou ould sa" is /ive me loc, one and "ou

donload t!e entire loc, it! all o it*s transactions' validate it' and add it to "our c!ain t!en donload

loc, to. 1o' "ou can sa" /ive me all t!e !eaders or all t!e loc,s rom 4 to la!' calculate t!e c!ain' and

t!en start donloadin/ t!e transactions later' and t!en "ou can potentiall" parallelie t!at unction and see,out or man" nodes' man" dierent loc, simultaneousl". >t*s li,e ma,in/ t!e ed/es o t!e pule

irst' so t!en once "ou*ve /ot t!e ed/es o t!e pule and "ou ,no !at s!ape and sie it is' no "ou can

start illin/ in t!e center muc! aster and "ou don*t need to ollo an" speciic pattern an"more.

#M: Ri/!t' so t!is is dierent t!an !at somet!in/ li,e 7lectrum does' !ic! is ,ind o li,e pic, a

c!ec,point and ,ind o s"nc t!e loc,c!ain ater t!at point. +!is is not i/norin/ portions o t!e loc,c!ain' it*s

asicall" ust ma,in/ t!e outline o t!e pule li,e "ou said.

(Music Cues up)

AS: Ies' and in act t!e 7lectrum client is a li/!tei/!t client t!at dele/ates its processin/ to master nodes

t!at !ave t!e ull loc,c!ain. >t doesn*t ,eep a cop" o t!e entire loc,c!ain. >n act' it doesn*t ,eep a cop"

o an" part o t!e loc,c!ain' ust c!ec,points. 9!at t!is is is a ull node' ut one t!at ootstraps aster. >t*s

not a li/!tei/!t node.


21/21

ABL: +!an,s or listenin/ to episode o Let*s +al, Bitcoin. Content or toda"*s s!o as provided "

Step!anie Murp!"' Andreas M Antonopoulos and Alan Reiner. Music as provided " Dared Ruins. An"

?uestions or comments8 7mail adamletstal,itcoin.com. See "ou ne;t time@

let's talk bitcoins, episode 55 - "happy birthday bitcoin"

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