martha beck cyl soulfest

[Liz Dawn]: Hi the re . I'm Liz Dawn, the CEO and co founder of Ce lebra te Your Life

events and thank you so m uch for jo in ing us for the first eve r Ce lebra te Your Life

online SOULFEST. We a re proudly sponsore d by unity online rad io and unity world

headquarte rs and jo in ing us today, I rea lly excited to have the am azing Martha Beck

who is the New York tim es best se lling au thor of Finding Your Own North Sta r and

Expecting Adam . She 's been fea tured on the Oprah Winfrey show m any tim es and

she 's a lso been a colum nist for O m agazine for over 20 yea rs and she 's a Harvard

gradua te . So we lcom e Martha Beck.

[Martha Back]: Thank you so m uch in such an honor to be he re a nd thanks for the

whole Ce lebra te Your Life festiva l, the energy is just hum m ing,.

[Liz Dawn]: I know? Right. Wonderfu l. I know, it 's kind of cool. Okay, so I want to a sk

you a few questions about your background and teach everybody who's wa tching a

little som eth ing abou t you , m ore th ings about you . So te ll us about your journey

from Harvard , righ t?

[Martha Back]: We should a ll just d rink eve ry tim e I see Harvard , you 'd ge t to drink

a ll of us. All of our vie wers.

[Liz Dawn]: Okay. Ready? Harvard . So te ll u s about your journe y from Harvard to

m ysticism .

[Martha Back]: Oh yeah . Well tha t's little th ing. No, I sta rted a t Harvard when I was

17 and went to the I a s an undergradua te and then , by the tim e I gradua ted , had

m arried som eone who was going to gradua te school the re and we d idn 't have a

ca r, so I had to go to college . The on ly th ing I could th ink of to do was to go to

Harvard aga in so tha t it wou ldn 't have to drive anywhere . So the n I got a m aste r's a t

Harvard . By the tim e I was done with tha t, we still d idn 't have a ca r, so I got a PhD.

So it was kind of like I had th is, Harvard addictive be havior going on . But ha lfway

through m y PhD program , we had a little girl and I was pregnant with our second

ch ild and a t about six m onths of gesta tion , because I'd been in a h igh rise fire , the y

d id a b lood te st tha t de te rm ine d tha t the fe tus I was ca rrying had down syndrom e.

[Martha Back]: And it was like ve ry la te in the pregnancy to be find ing th is ou t and

politica lly I'm very pro choice , bu t th is was like , wa it, I have like a week to decide

wha t kind of baby is worth having. Like if it would not have been tha t I d idn 't want

to be pregnant, it 's like , Oh, if, if you a re going to be tha t way, I don 't want you and

the re was just a pa rt of m e tha t sa id , wa it a second. In tha t case , which of us, you

know, is it okay for m e to be a live if I ge t h it by a ca r? Then I sta rted to th ink about

wha t is the reason , a ll five doctors a t the Harvard unive rsity hea lth clin ic sa id tha t I

had to te rm ina te the pregnancy. They com pared it to having a m alignant tum or

the re . I got pressured pre tty heavily and I was young. I was 25 so I just sa t the re .

[Liz Dawn]: And you a re going through grad school? And had a two year old?

overachiever!

[Martha Back]: I'm not so m uch an overach iever a s I never slep t. I had a severe

sleep d isorder and the re 's a lot of th ings you can do with tha t tim e . So since tha t

got worked ou t, I've done absolu te ly noth ing with m y life . But I had th is choice to

m ake and I was like , I've wa lked a round Harvard and I would go in to these offices

where the re were pe ople who looke d kind of haunted and drive n and they were

writing these journa l a rticle s tha t no one would ever read and like tense and I

thought, is tha t, do I on ly want a ch ild who can grow up to be a Harvard professor? I

thought the reason for m y existe nce , which is going to be brie f a nd tem pora ry a t

best is no t how m uch I can achieve in in te llectua lly or in any othe r way, bu t how

m uch I can experience joy, love , m eaning, purpose , a ll the th ings tha t, you know, as

you ge t olde r you sta rt to go, Oh, I forgot to ge t those .

[Martha Back]: Well, I ge t righ t a t 25 had to m ake a decision which kind of baby I

was going to have , I had never m et anyone with down syndrom e, bu t I ta lked to

people who had and they sa id , yes, these people a re incred ib le . Add to tha t and I

usua lly don 't m ention th is, the fact tha t from the m om e nt I conce ived tha t baby, I

sta rted having psychic experiences and I had no be lie f system in which th is was

okay. Right. But m y husband a t the tim e was trave ling to Asia and back and I

sta rted to rea lize tha t when he was th inking about m e and I was th inking about

h im , I would lite ra lly see wha t was in front of h im . Like I'd sudde nly see a stree t in

Japan with construction workers and banners of a ce rta in color and la te r we ta lk on

the phone and he had wa lked down tha t stree t and it 's , it becam e very strong. So

by the tim e I was six m onths pregnant and the baby was d iagnosed , not on ly had I

bonded to h im , bu t I'd a lso had to adm it tha t the world was we irde r than I thought

because I couldn 't stop . the world was ge tting a little b it, yeah , th is was ve ry

b iza rre . So I though t, I'm gonna stay on for the ride and see wha t happens and so I

basica lly pulled out the whole m ate ria list underp innings of m y persona l ph ilosophy

and I basica lly, un til then , I agreed with the Baconian princip le tha t noth ing is true

until it 's p roven true and so I d idn 't be lieve anyth ing. I decided to switch tha t

d iam etrica lly to say I will be lieve anyth ing until it 's p roven fa lse . Why don 't I just

th row the ga tes of m y im agina tion ope n to anyth ing and then se e if it works, see

wha t works. So out ca m e m y son and turne d out to be an incredib ly m agica l

pe rson .

[Martha Back]: I could go on and on . I have lite ra lly seen h im m ake ba lls of ligh t

be tween h is hands.

[Liz Dawn]: Wow. So, so wha t do you th ink tha t whole psychic experience in was like

rea lly abou t when you were pregnant with h im ? Cause tha t's when it sta rted . Right.

[Martha Beck]: You know wha t? I fe lt like I was a rad io tower and he was the rad io

opera tor and he was in the re sending and rece iving signa ls and s ince I was the

rad io tower in which he was living, I sort of got these , these byproducts of h is own

processing a fte r the m om ent he was born , I fe lt it fade , bu t it d idn 't fade

com ple te ly. It went, m ost of it we nt with h im , but I had a little b it le ft and by tha t

tim e I was on a journey, I was freaking hooked. I wanted to find out wha t the world

rea lly was because the worldview I had bee n taught had no room for th is stuff and

so I still be lieve d in science . I still was ge tting a ve ry ha rd nosed e duca tion and ye t

m y em pirica l experie nce was bringing in e lem ents of m ysticism , e lem ents of the

m iraculous.

[Liz Dawn]; What d id you sta rt to study? Like how did you m ake tha t transition?

Well, you , you , you were a lm ost forced to m ake the transition because you were

having these e xperie nces when you were pregnant. So the n wha t d id you do a fte r

he was born? Like how did you sta rt studying?

[Martha Beck]:Yeah , I went crazy with , like , I stud ied every re ligious trad ition tha t I

could find a t a ll and I d id a ll the th ings. I was like , I I went kosher, Like I wou ld pray

five tim es to Mecca , I would do any. But a t the sam e tim e I was like down with

Wiccan . I was just trying everyth ing and wha t I found was tha t som e of it d idn 't

work and som e of it d id .

[Martha Back]: For exam ple , m edita tion , th is sim plest th ing. But like I had a , one of

m y degrees is in Asia n studies, so I had a lot of e xposure to tha t and I sta rted doing

regula r m edita tion and going to spaces of awareness tha t I'd never visited be fore ,

bu t they were obviously rea l, m ore rea l than the life I'd been projecting be fore . So

wha t happene d is I ju st went th rough a ll these d iffe ren t practice s and if they

worked I ke pt them and if they d idn 't work for m e , I d idn 't judge them , but I d idn 't

keep them so m uch a nd I sort of deve loped a way of living based on th is and I ca ll it

lea f in the stream be havior. I just go where the stream takes m e and it tu rns ou t

tha t if you le t go of a ll the con trols it takes, it takes you to som e rea lly in te resting

p laces.

[Liz Dawn]: Yeah and he 's a lso done som e studying with ind igenous tribes

[Martha Beck]: tha t cam e a b it la te r. Yeah . Yeah . So I d id , I d id a ll the , I tried a ll these

re ligious and philosophica l practices and som e of them weren 't and wha t

happene d was I got m yse lf to a p lace of be ing qu ite psychologica lly hea lthy because

wha t every sp iritua l trad ition teaches a t its core is tru th . So com ing in to tru th and

re leasing anyth ing tha t isn 't tru th . So it got ve ry sim ple and ve ry basic and it was

just, you com e to a poin t, Pasca l sa id , the m ajority of m ise ry com es from the fact

tha t we a re unable to sit qu ie tly a lone in a room . I fina lly got to the poin t where I

filte red out e nough of the noise of cu lture tha t I was ab le to sit qu ie tly in a room

and I thought, Oh, n ice destina tion , peace . Good and tha t's where it rea lly ge ts

we ird because you 're sitting quie tly in a room and sudde nly, for e xam ple , you fe e l

tha t a ll of th is a round you is a projection of your own consciousness.

[Martha Back]: Bruce Lip ton and I were just ta lking about how he cam e to from

deve lopm enta l b io logy to the sam e conclusion . If you sit qu ie tly for long e nough,

you will begin to see tha t a ll of th is is a dream . It's true , it 's true wha t the Asian

m edita tors say. It 's like , Oh, a ll of th is, supposed rigid m atte r is a ctua lly be ing

genera ted by consciousness and you experience it subjective ly tha t way. So it sta rts

to ge t ve ry strange , bu t it doesn 't fee l strange . It 's a s rea l a s the m ate ria l in your

body. The way I like to describe it is , you know, m y kids like to p lay these incredib le

video gam es where the , the graphics a re am azing and they crea te worlds and you

go in to them and you can p lay toge the r. So I'll be a wiza rd and you 'll be a princess

and we 'll p lay the ga m e and you 'll cast a spe ll on m e and I'll cast a spe ll back and

we 'll sta rt saying, I cast a spe ll on you and how could you do tha t to m e ta lking

about these characte rs in a video gam e, we ta lk abou t it a s if it 's a s if it 's rea l and

we m ay even ge t excited or sad or upse t, and then som ebody says, Hey, the re 's

p izza and sudden ly tha t world doesn 't, we 're ou t of tha t and in to the world where

the re 's p izza

[Liz Dawn]: and have you had tha t e xperie nce where you 're , you 're going in to

d iffe ren t spaces

[Martha Beck]: so you 're sitting the re in m e dita tion in the ord ina ry world . I used to

go out and m edita te in the woods in Ca liforn ia and cover m yse lf with b ird seed and

just sit the re m otionle ss while the ch ipm unks and the b irds wou ld com e and ea t.

The h igh poin t in m y life was not like PhD from Harvard . It was when two

chipm unks had a te rritoria l d ispute in m y hands. I m ean just, I was just sitting the re

a ll still. So I'm sitting the re ge tting m ore and m ore , still m ore and m ore connected

to na ture and sudde n ly I rea lize it 's like som eone says, Hey, the re 's p izza and foom .

I'm out of wha t I've a lways ca lled the rea l world and I'm in a world tha t is crea ted

from pure love , pure consciousness, the continuous recrea tion of the apparent

m a te ria l world on th is beautifu l canvas ca lled now.

[Martha Back]: It 's just, it 's com ing in to be ing as an act of consciousness now, now,

now, now, and so I would sit the re for hours just going, wow, eve ry second. It was

brand new and I was like , Oh m y gosh . None of th is is rea l. It 's rea l in the se nse tha t

a video gam e is rea l, bu t the re 's anothe r rea lity tha t's p rior to tha t tha t's deeper to

tha t than tha t and it 's , it 's connecting m e to you , to these trees, to those ch ipm unks

in m y hands, and it 's a world tha t is sa fe r, kinder, a m ore benevolent than anyth ing

we 've ever experie nced in our cu lture and people have bee n d iscovering th is for

m illennia . It 's not new inform ation .

[Liz Dawn]: Now I a lso know som e th ing about you tha t you ca ll in an im als when you

were ta lking about the b irds and the ch ipm unks because we 're in Sedona righ t now

film ing th is and we a re a t Enchantm ent resort, and why don 't you share the story.

[Martha Beck]: Okay. I'm gonna back up a little . You aske d a little sham anism and I

cam e sligh tly lost your question , eve rybody's an an im al whispere r. So I'm behind

the screen and I'm like , th is isn 't rea l. There a re h in ts of th is in m ysticism and

re ligious trad ition , bu t the re 's a lso a rea lly strong trad ition of th is and the o ldest of

a ll re ligions, which is va rious form s of sham onic practice or m e dicine , the y wou ld

ca ll it in North Am erica , the m edicine pe ople and so I sta rted studying as m any of

those cu ltures a s I could and wha t I found was tha t the re were consisten t practices

and aga in , the re 's a lot tha t d id not work. Like I would , I would ta lk to peop le . It

d idn 't fee l righ t. It d idn 't sound righ t. It m ay be righ t, bu t it d idn 't land with m e . But

I sta rted to notice tha t eve rywhere I wen t, the people who were actua lly crea ting

som eth ing m agica l, like be ing ab le to hea l othe rs and so on , we 're doing the sam e

th ings. The y were going in to a sta te , I ca lled wordlessness and they had d iffe ren t

practices for th is. Medita tion is one , bu t it 's where the le ft side of the bra in le ts go

and the righ t side of the bra in goes in to a com ple te ly d iffe ren t nonverba l space of

pe rception . So you can actua lly fee l tha t in your own m ind and had you stop

th inking and going to pure pe rception . At tha t poin t, you begin to spon taneously

rea lize tha t eve ryth ing a round you is connected because it 's the le ft side of the

bra in tha t cu ts th ings up . It 's ana lytica l or the righ t side of the bra in and synthe tic. It

b rings th ings toge the r and you pe rce ive tha t. So the step was wordlessness. The

second step was one ness. The th ird step was im agina tion . So the m edicine peop le

would ge t ca lm , the y'd go, they'd connect with say a pe rson the y were trying to hea l

and the n the y wou ld begin to im agine wha t could unfo ld . Tha t would hea l th is

pe rson or tha t would hea l an ecosystem or tha t wou ld bring an an im al, for

exam ple . I was in Africa and I had a dream tha t m y ancestors we re com ing to visit

m e and I thought, Oh, tha t's kind of a la rm ing because in m y case tha t m eans a lot

of rea lly p issed off Morm ons a re com ing over. Right and the n I was like in the

dream , wa it a second. I m ean Africa , I th ink these m ight be o lde r ancestors where

a ll the ch ildren of m other Africa . Right and I was like , Oh and the n I got a ll worrie d

in the dream cause I was like , I be t the y're going to m a ke m e sacrifice and goa t.

They a lways m ake you sacrifice a goa t. And then in the dream , the a irstrip to

sh im m er and I fe lt th is unbe lievable swee tness, like a b lanke t wrapped a round m e

and I thought, Oh, the y're he re and the ancestors sa id , we have a m essage for you ,

Martha and I was like , wha t? And they sa id , re lax and the n they went away. Tha t

was the whole dream . So I'm the ne xt day I’m a t a bonfire where we 're a ll ou t in the

African Bush and the re a re a bunch of peop le the re from the Sha ngaan tribe and I

thought, Oh, I had th is cool African dream , I'm going to te ll them about it. So I told

them m y dream and they d id th is and then they ran . The y ran away. They turned

a round and ran in to the n igh t, and I was like , we ll, wha t the he ll is going on? I

thought I offe nded them horrib ly and la te r they cam e back and they brought with

them a wom an from Mozam bique tha t who was a re fugee who just com e across

the border and she was a sangom a, a sham an. If you have a dream tha t your

ancestors a re going to visit you in tha t pa rt of Africa and you don 't see a Sham an,

you 're in dee p trouble . So they were like , Oh m y gosh . She had the dream and they

so lovingly wen t to ge t the sham an for m e and the Sham an proceeded to te ll m e a ll

these th ings abou t m y life tha t she cou ldn 't possib ly have known and I was ve ry

im pressed . So tha t kind of go t m e sta rted on th is study of trad itiona l, and she told

m e as pa rt of the reading or wha tever, you need to study th is stuff and m ake sure

tha t the people of your cu lture lea rn it.

[Martha Back]: And part of it is the connection with the ecosyste m and the life of

both p lan ts and an im als. But pa rt of it is you a re ab le to im agine th ings tha t p lan ts

and an im als can 't. But if your consciousness is connected to the m . So I went

th rough, you go in to a wordless sta te , you fee l the one ness of a ll th ings, and then

you see tha t consciousness is p rojecting everyth ing. Then you rea lize tha t the

hum an im agina tion can crea te new th ings and if you hold tha t, wha t you have

im agined only from th is sta te of oneness, which is love will com e in to be ing. So you

can 't do any ha rm with it because the sta te of one ness m eans tha t if you hurt

anyth ing, you 're hurting yourse lf. So you 're not go ing to do evil with th is. Okay. So

be fore we sta rted the in te rview, I sa id , I'm going to show you how som e of the

m agic works, and you were like , no, le t's do it on cam era . So we 're going to do th is

and you 've never done th is righ t? And you prom ise not to fake anyth ing, righ t? So

wha t I'm going to do, I've been ta lking abou t these four th ings. You go wordless,

you go in to oneness, you im agine and then you , the th ing you 've im agined takes

p lace in form . I'm going to show you a ve ry sim ple practice tha t will le t you fee l in

your body, how th is a ffects you . So wha t you 're going to do is ho ld your hands out

like th is to m e a little furthe r ou t so I can reach like towards m e . Okay? Your job is

to hold your hands apart and you 're going to resist m e and I'm going to try to push

aga in , push your hands toge the r with e nergy and people can do th is a t hom e.

[Martha Back]: Ge t up , ge t a pa rtne r and try th is. So first we 're jus t going to have an

a rm wrestle . I'm going to th ink I'm going to push your hands toge the r. You 're go ing

to th ink, no you a ren 't. I'm going to keep m y hands apart and we will just struggle .

Okay, so go m uscle to m uscle . All righ t? So tha t's m e in a typ ica l o r sta te of

consciousness, righ t? And tha t's you in a typ ica l Weste rn , a sta te of consciousness.

Now I'm going to , I'm going to do som e th ing sligh tly d iffe ren t th is tim e . And I want

you to do exactly the sam e th ing. You 're go ing to hold your hands out and I'm just

going to do som e th ing just a little d iffe re n t. Okay? You ready? Brace yourse lf. One ,

two, th ree . You want m e to give you a coun t? Wait a second. Okay. I'm resisting.

One , two, th ree . Oh, how did you do tha t? I went in to a wordless sta te . I fe lt the

oneness be tween the two of us. I im agined us coopera ting and then I just ba re ly

m oved m y hands.

[Liz DAwn]: I've seen you spoon bend. You can and you 've , you 've just bee n and I've

tried it with the sam e spoon.

[Martha Beck]: Yeah . It 's about your sta te of consciousness. Like when I was

pregnant with m y son , he was em ana ting a d iffe ren t sta te of consciousness and I

kind of got tha t from him . I m ean , and I'm not just, I'm not saying to anyone by the

way, tha t if you have te rm ina ted a pregnancy tha t tha t's a bad th ing. I don 't be lieve

tha t and I rea lly want to em phasize it, bu t by giving m e the gift of a d iffe ren t sta te

of consciousness tha t lives in m y house a ll the tim e , m y son Ada m , se t m e free to

go on th is wild adventure and you just fe lt how diffe ren t it is to be in the typ ica l

Weste rne rs fram e of m ind for you have to do th ings righ t a s opposed to basica lly a

m ystica l sta te of m ind from a ll these d iffe ren t trad itions and a ll I'm doing so now

you can try it on m e . Okay. So I'll go in to a resistance and you guys can try th is a t

hom e. So I will re sist you as ha rd as I can push it. .

[Martha Back]: Okay. Now wha t I want you to do, okay, is b rea the out and ge t ve ry

re laxed and sta rt th inking in im ages ra the r than words. So I want you to im agine

like a tim e tha t was beautifu l when you we re like com ple te ly re la xed on a beach or

in na ture with a loved one or hold ing a baby or som eth ing. So you 're genera ting

fee lings of love and connection , and then you 're going to im agine tha t eve ryth ing

wants to coopera te with th is sta te of love , including m e . Right? And then you 're

going to , I'm going to hold m y hands apart with a ll the strength I can and you 're

going to just gen tly m ove your hands toge the r a s if they're m oving in o il while

hold ing th is sta te of ha rm onious coopera tion . Okay? All righ t. Le t's see how it works

and I p rom ise I will re sist. Okay. Oh wow. I got no th ing. I got no th ing. I fe lt the

d iffe rence . Right? And the re 's no way. I m ean we can dem onstra te it, bu t am azing

in your freaking body be fore you rea lize , Oh, som eth ing rea l is happening. So you

were asking about an im als. Okay. One of the reasons I go to Africa is tha t I am

obsessed with an im als and with the , the re stora tion of ecosyste m s, which is wha t

m y friends in Africa a t th is beautifu l gam e p rese rve ca lled ???. Tha t's wha t they do.

They restore ecosyste m s tha t have been de stroyed back to the ir na tura l sta te and

the an im als com e back and then they live in ha rm ony with them . So I do these

sem inars down the re and we a lways go out the re and we say, we 're going to ca ll

wha tever an im al, you know, like a leopard , a wild dog, an im als tha t a re ha rd to see ,

tha t rea lly don 't ge t seen ve ry often .

[Martha Back]: And we do th is every yea r and every yea r a s we sta rt the sem inar,

m y, m y Co presen te rs and I just go, wha t if it doesn 't work? Like we got no th ing. If it

doesn 't work, we 're sending them . It a lways works. So la st n ight a s I was driving

in to the e nchantm e nt resort he re in gorge ous Sedona , Arizona , I thought I have

tracked hava linas a t th is re sort be fore , bu t I've never seen them here . Jave linas a re

little p ig like crea tures . Very fury little dese rt p igs. They're adorable and I so as we

cam e in , I d id the ritua l. I just d roppe d in . I went in to a sta te of wordless one ness, I

fe lt for the consciousness of jave linas I m e an , wha t's , can 't hurt anyth ing. Right?

Then I sa id , look, you guys, if you fee l up for it, com e pay m e a visit while I'm here . I

would love to see you and I could fee l them and we were just about to sta rt film ing

and I swear to God the re was a knock a t the door. Am I lying?

[Liz Dawn]: Tha t's exactly wha t happe ned . So we 've bee n in Se dona . Yeah , I d idn 't

te ll you th is. We 've be en a t Sedona for about four or five days cause we were doing

our ce lebra te Life 's a Sedona . Right? And you just flew in la te la st n igh t. La te la st

n ight. Well, one of m y sta ff m em bers, Danie lle sa id to m e specifica lly when we

a rrived he re , I want to see a have a jave lina Well I have been up he re a t least two

dozen tim es, if not a lot a t Enchantm en t re sort. I've never seen a havilana now on

the property, I've see n dee r, we saw Roadrunners, we saw a Bobca t. But we never

ever seen jave lina ever not ever, and Danie lle sa id to m e , I rea lly want to see a

jave lina I was like , we ll tha t's not going to happen . It doesn 't happen he re . So we 've

been he re for four or five days. We a re just ge tting ready to se t up for the in te rview

and Danie lle says the re 's jave lina ou t side the window, not just one , bu t the re were

a t least two dozen in the little babys

[Martha Beck]: and I don 't know if they actua lly bum ped a t the door or if it was just

them . There was som eth ing like the y were knocking on the door over the re .

We go out the re and we 're like surrounde d by jave lina , nursing babies and

m unching on cactus. We have video footage and the y were like , yeah , yeah , yes.

We 're he re to join you and I've had th is experience over and over and over, on the

p lanes, the h igh Altip lano of of Wyom ing. Once I thought pronghorn an te lope , I'd

love to see them and from m iles away, a he rd of pronghorn an te lope cam e running

and I pa rked m y ca r and th is he rd of an te lope ran to m y ca r, the only hum an object

in the landscape and stopped and just stood a round m e .

[Liz Dawn]: Because you 're tun ing in to the ir ene rgy and you 're connecting with

them on a d iffe ren t le ve l of consciousness.

[Martha Back]: Correct. But we a ll a re . Tha t's the th ing you , you had no trouble

ge tting to in to the consciousness. You d idn 't take yea rs of tra in ing or have to lea rn

m edita tion or anyth ing. This is inhere nt in our b io logy and we pa rt of h is longs for it

and m y whole , I sta rted , you know, I was a professor and the n I taught a t business

school and was like te aching peop le to do with the ir rea l lives, ca ree r deve lopm e nt

and tha t was m ore fun for m e than acade m ia and then the y sta rted , the students

sta rted to asking m e , wha t a re you doing? Like how a re you living? They were

in trigue d and it was because I had adopted th is pa th of living in th is way of th inking

and tha t's where m y whole ca ree r cam e from . Right. So people who to ld m e your

ca ree r is over if you have th is baby though. I was like , tha t's the b iggest cash cow

ever cam e in to m y life .

[Liz Dawn]: Well, I m ean tha t's a rid icu lous sta tem ent because you 're like with , you

know, you 've been on the Oprah show m any tim es and you 've be en a write r for O

m agazine . Everybody knows who you a re . You 've had severa l best New York tim es

bestse lling books.

[Martha Beck]: So tha t was fa lse , righ t? Cause I go out and sit the woods with

ch ipm unks like tha t.

[Liz Dawn]: I'm going to jum p in to som eth ing and ge t som e questions going. The

whole Wayfinder coaching program , you do a ll kinds of am azing work in the world .

So I le t's ge t back to th is just for a second. Okay. So you 've bee n a life coach for

decades, righ t?What's the m ost powerfu l se lf-deve lopm e nt tool you found for, for

im proving people 's lives?

[Martha Back]: In tegrity. One word . In tegrity and in tegrity and I don 't m ean tha t in a

m ora lizing sense . I m ean tha t the re is a tru th tha t you can fee l with your body, your

em otions, and your sp irit and usua lly not with your m ind . The only th ing tha t was

keeping you from com ple te ha rm ony with m e was a m enta l se t, your hea rt, your

sp irit, which I now be lieve in and your body. So em otiona l, sp iritua l, and physica l

se lves a re a ll a lways trying to bring you in to ha rm ony with your tru th . So whe n

in tegrity sim ply m eans be ing one th ing, whole and d ivided and if you can find

wha t's true for you and only excep t with your m ind or with your scheduling, with

your logistics, wha t fee ls true for you . If you live in com ple te in tegrity, you 're like an

a irp lane tha t is in structura l in tegrity. You can fly and it 's not a m ora l th ing. It 's just

if a ll the pa rts of you a re working as one , you becom e a flying m achine and if they

a ren 't working as one , you crash . So when you ca lled m e like 10 m inutes ago and

sa id , look, could you com e to th is, th is th ing in Sedona? I on short notice and I have

a th ing in Ca liforn ia tha t I flew in for, I'm flying back. All I d id wa s I checked inside

from tha t wordless p lace , wha t fee ls like ha rm ony, wha t m akes m y body re lax, m y

heart fee l warm , m y sp irit fee l free .

And m y m ind say tha t m akes sense and I sa id , absolu te ly, I'll do tha t. If it hadn 't

been so a ligned for m e . I wouldn 't have done it.

[Liz Dawn]: So wha t I'd love to know is how do we actua lly ge t to tha t p lace of

knowingness because we ge t so in our hea ds tha t it 's ha rd to d isce rn be tween like

head and wha t's rea lly tru th first.

[Martha Beck]: Like our cu lture is , like , sir Ken Robinson says tha t we see our bodies

as a m echanism tha t ge ts our heads to m e e tings because we 're a ve ry m ate ria listic

cu lture and it 's done a lot of good th ings for us. But, we a re so in to m en ta tion , in to

th inking on ly tha t we can override othe r signa ls. The way in to tru th for m e was m y

body. Whe n I was 18, I deve loped rea lly bad chronic pa in . I was h it by a ca r and

then I never rea lly got be tte r from it for 12 yea rs.

I just was in lots of pa in a ll the tim e . I'm not weeping, I just have a goopy p ie . But I

would wee p over the 12 yea rs of chronic pa in , we ll, I wept a lot. But wha t I sta rted

to rea lize a fte r 12 yea rs was tha t depending on wha t I was doing and wha t I was

th inking, the sym ptom s would fluctua te and wha t I found was tha t m y body was

like a com pass and it was trying to te ll m e tha t I was headed away from m y destiny

and the furthe r I hea ded away, the m ore pa in I would fe e l and the m ore I changed

towards wha t I la te r though t to be m y destiny, the le ss pa in I would fee l. So I have

three d iagnosed progressive , incurable illnesses and no sym ptom s. Because a ll I do

is I check in with m y body and th is is som e th ing tha t we a ll have .

[Martha Back]: The one th ing you don 't re a lly ofte n m isp lace is your body, righ t? So

you can do it righ t now. Check in to your body by re laxing and sim ply see ing if

the re 's any pa in , tension , or d iscom fort anywhere in the physica l system . Can you

find it? What? Where? Where is it? So wha t you do is you a llow it, you wa tch it with

com passion , you a llow it and then you just a sk it. What a re you , wha t a re you trying

to say to m e? What changes for you em otiona lly So em otiona lly som eth ing went

loose and soft. The th ing abou t m agic, like in Harry Potte r, the m agic but rea l m agic

is so then sp iritua l se lf. For those of us who be lieve in sp irit re sponds to tha t by

fee ling free . So free or not free is a rea lly good indica tor of whe ther you 're on track

or not on track. The Buddha use d to say, wherever you find the ocean , you can

a lways te ll it 's the oce an because it ta stes of sa lt no m atte r wha t it looks like and

whenever you find libe ra tion or e n ligh tenm ent, you can te ll it because it a lways

ta stes a freedom . So it doesn 't necessa rily like super m anic or lovey-dovey or

anyth ing. It is free and it can actua lly be frigh ten ingly free . But tha t ope nness tha t

you just d id , so you went th rough the body, which we a ll have with us. It 's a lways

com m unica ting with us.

[Martha Back]: Usua lly through com fort and d iscom fort, wherever the re 's just

com fort. You go in , you ask for m ore wisdom , it gives you a p iece of in form ation

and your hea rt goes to your em otiona lly fe e l like tha t's m ore of a hom ecom ing and

then if you check to see if you fee l free , you know you 're on the track of your tru th

with a capita l T and then whenever your m ind is do ing, it just has to com e a long for

the pa rty. Tha t's wha t happene d to m e . I ha d a zillion yea rs of educa tion to te ll m e

tha t none of th is stuff could be rea l and it was rea l for m y body. My heart and m y

sp irit. So I just had to go out and find a way to bring m y m ind in to a lignm en t with

wha t was rea l for m e and tha t's why I we nt and studie d m ystica l trad itions. I was

looking for a tru th tha t would m ake sense to m y m ind , tha t would bring m e in to

in tegrity with m y heart, m y body, and m y soul. In tegrity with your hea rt. Tha t's

in tegrity and it 's be ing in tha t sta te and sta ying in tha t sta te is how to, it 's how to

listen . We m ove from tha t po in t. Yeah , and it a lways te lls you your next step , and it

does m agic. Itt b rings love . It b rings m oney. It b rings, if you wan t to be , don 't rea lly

want it because tha t s ta te itse lf is so fu ll of the pure b liss of be ing. You 're in th is

m iraculous gam e tha t is so m uch fun and you 're p laying it with a ll your best friends

and the re is no dea th except in the gam e. Right? So the re 's no th ing to lose . There 's

on ly these incredib le troves of experience to have to ca ll a jave lina and then be

visited by a tribe .

[Liz Dawn]: So in your book, Finding Your Way in a Wild New World , tha t's the title

of the book. You ta lk about pe ople you ca ll Wayfinders. Yeah . What do Wayfinders

need to know to live the ir purpose?

[Martha Back]: Okay, so I'm going to back up just a second and say a wild new world

m eans a world in which change is so rap id and so m assive tha t we can no longer

pred ict the fu ture a t a ll. Like we can 't p red ict wha t the clim a te will do, bu t we a lso

can 't p red ict wha t our ce ll phones will be doing ne xt yea r. The ra te of change is

going up a t an e xponentia l le ve l and the e xpone nt is going up a t an exponentia l

leve l. There 's no pred icting the fu ture and tha t is wild . Tha t is a chaotic world . So

m y question with tha t book is how do you naviga te absolu te wildness, righ t? You

have to go back to wha t the ancien t wisdom trad itions knew about dea ling with the ,

the wild tha t they had to dea l with . So Wayfinders were , tha t's a word you use to

describe a group of Polynesian , m edicine people who cou ld find islands by, for

exam ple , the y naviga ted from Papua New Guinea to Hawaii because they were so

fam ilia r with the ocean and the sta rs tha t they cou ld actua lly, they could

extrapola te the e xiste nce of these islands 3000 m iles away by looking a t the way

the waves broke aga inst the ir canoes, 3000 m iles and the Wayfinder and the y were

ve ry in tim a te ly tra ine d with the ocean . The y were put in the oce an a ll the tim e and

when the Wayfinder went on a voyage , the Wayfinder and it was m ale or fem ale

because if som ebody had the skills to do th is, it d idn 't m a tte r which gender, they

just take you the wayfinder only got to slee p for about two m inu tes a t a tim e

because it was like a supercom pute r and if the Wayfinder fe ll a sleep for too long,

they would lose the signa l and the y wou ldn 't be ab le to naviga te .

[Martha Back]: So tha t is just with a ll grea t re spect to th is incred ib le trad ition . I

wanted to say, le t's a ll becom e so a ttuned to our e nvironm ent tha t in th is chaotic

liqu id world where the re a re tsunam is of change going through, we can stee r

unerringly toward sa fe ty, toward ha rm ony, toward com passion , toward a continue d

ha rm ony with na ture . We got to do it. We 're out in the ocean . We need to find the

way. I teach people who do coaching, bu t rea lly it 's about how do you find the

com passes tha t exist with in your own body and ge t them a ll to line up for wha t is

true for you and the , the supposition , the cosm ology, the hypothesis hypothesis

under a ll of th is is tha t with in us we hold the solu tions to a ll the d ilem m as we face

and tha t is not a scien tific a ssum ption . Tha t is a m ystica l a ssum ption , bu t it works.

The th ing is body goe s back in to the body. We have th is m ind tha t's like , Oh wait,

we 've got to have a 20 yea r p lan and we used to have 20 yea r p lans. They no longer

work. No one knows. It's like when I was going in to socio logy as a d iscip line , the re

was pa rt of it ca lled fu turo logy where people pred icted the fu tu re , gone . No one

can predict the fu ture . It 's com ple te ly chaotic. So wha t do we do? The one th ing we

do is find structura l in tegrity as ind ividua ls, we drop in . We a ll have to be the

m edicine peop le , you know the , the , the na viga tors, the na ture com m unica tors, the

psychologists, the he a le rs, the storyte lle rs, the dancers, the a rtists of our cu lture .

There a re peop le eve rywhere born with these skills in to a cu lture tha t has no

trad ition of wayfinding.

[Martha Back]: You know, wha tever form tha t was in . It 's d iffe ren t in d iffe ren t

cu ltures. We have to re lea rn it and it 's in ou r b iology, it 's in our genes to know how

to naviga te wild spaces tha t way and the way we connect with it is a sense of

ha rm ony in itse lf and tha t m eans physica l hea lth . It m eans the he a rt is a t peace . It

m eans the sp irit is free and it m eans tha t they say an age of the m ind is a te rrib le

m aste r, bu t a wonderfu l se rvant. So instea d of m aking the m ind the m aste r of th is

whole gam e, you m ake it se rve your in tegrity and tha t's how you ge t the p lan for

your life , which is connected to a ll life , which is feeding a ll th is in form ation to a ll of

us, which eventua lly could save the day for us.

We 'd be the change we wish to see in the world is gone and he sa id , and the n it

em ana tes. It has th is in te resting resonant capacity where peop le like , I'm going to

write a nove l when I'm done with m y present book. Where about, a world where

en ligh tenm e nt is a contagious d isease . Until you 're fu lly sym ptom atic, you can 't

transm it it. But if you look in to the eyes of som eone who is fu lly a wake , it s ta rts

happening in you and you can 't rea lly stop it. You can figh t it, bu t you can 't rea lly

stop it and if you figh t it, you suffe r and if you don 't figh t it, you s top suffe ring. So

tha t's , and I th ink tha t 's actua lly lite ra lly wha t's happening.

[Liz Dawn]: So I have another question for you . So if we find ourse lves off course ,

righ t, or in conflict with in ourse lves, wha t a re three specific steps we can take today

tha t can he lp us work our way back in ba la nce and in touch with our e ssentia l

se lves?

[Martha Back]: So I've been ta lking about how the world is kind of a chaotic scene ,

righ t? What I recom m end first is tha t you ta ke a tim e Island , m ake a tim e Island for

yourse lf where the chaos isn 't gonna a ffect you as m uch and th is can be as sim ple

as saying, I rea lly nee d a ba throom break a nd like locking yourse lf in a sta ll a t work

and just sitting down and the reason is to ge t away from othe r people because

we 're ve ry porous in our in te ractions with othe r pe ople . You saw tha t when we d id

the hand exercise . So if you 're surrounded by pe ople who a re in an anxious,

frene tic sta te of m ind , it 's ve ry d ifficu lt to ge t peacefu l and peace is the ground

where knowledge a rises from the true se lf. So you ge t lite ra l space , like lock

yourse lf off if it 's just a ba throom . Grea t. So tha t's the first th ing, and if you just sa t

the re by yourse lf and brea thed until you 're ca lm , tha t we have two toggling ne rvous

system s, the sym pathe tic ne rvous system , which is figh t or fligh t and tha t's wha t

we 're in a lm ost a ll the tim e and the pa rasym pathe tic, which is the rest and re lax

and the one th ing you can do, and everybody says th is because it 's a deep tru th ,

the one th ing you can do tha t will switch from the to the ha is b re a th ing. So as you

ge t a tim e island you brea the and especia lly you exha le com ple te ly because I've

wa tched m any an im als hun t and be hun te d and he re 's , I will te ll you th is, no an im al

be ing pursued by a lion ever does th is. (takes deep brea th)

[Martha Back]: Never, I d id once to see a Willdabeast though, and the re was, I was

in Ke nya during the Willdabeast m igra tion and to be everywhere and the re was a

pride of lions and the y each had the ir own dead Willdabeast and they were like fu ll

ou t to , and th is Willda beast cam e up to the m , which is kind of wha t the y say, and

not ve ry bright and the lions were like , se riously like you 're righ t he re cause we kind

of have to kill you now So one of the lions ge ts up , a ll righ t, wha tever and sta rts sort

of wa lking toward it and the Wildabeast to be sta rts edging away and the n the lion

goes down and it goe s in to tha t, the charge . Right? And tha t willdabeast pu t on

these a fte rburners and just shot ou t and then it 's just too m uch. I'm like stop and

the Willdabeast went and so whenever I do tha t exe rcise , the lion was still the re ,

bu t the Willdabeast knew, okay, tha t's anothe r day. Woo and just went back to

grazing. The lion was righ t the re , bu t it wasn 't going to a ttack. It was sa fe and we

keep the im aginary lions of our lives. Our taxes, a re evil bosses, wha tever it is ,

they're a lways chasing us in the m ind and a ll we have to do to ge t the m ind to le t go

of tha t is the long exha le cause it a ffects the bra in STEM, which is be low everyth ing

e lse . So tha t's th ing one is got a tim e Island th ing. Two is exha le com ple te ly and do

tha t enough to like actua lly fee l yourse lf no t pass out from hyperventila tion bu t

sta rt to ca lm down and the n the th ird th ing is , is wha t I just m entioned to you .

Check your body for a reas of tension or stre ss and just d irect com passion toward

any pa rt of your body.

[Martha Back]: And if the re 's hea rtbreak, you m ay actua lly actua lly have physica l

tension a round the hea rt because the re 's a bra in , they're send ing a lot of signa ls to

the , the re 's a m ini bra in , the size of a ca t's b ra in in the hea rt, tha t ganglion cluste r

sending inform ation to the bra in and tha t m ay be hurting, lite ra lly hea rtbreaking. If

you 're em otiona lly sad , if the re 's som eth ing wrong tha t you shouldn 't be doing,

your gu t will be te lling you tha t. So the body's going to be ta lking to you and a ll you

have to do is say, I love you , I re spect you , I'm going to follow your advice . What do

you have to say? And your body will com e online with it 's super sophistica ted , 300

m illion yea rs of evolu tion beh ind it and say, he re 's where you 're a b it off base and

just tha t knowledge b rings you in to in tegrity and then you decide how you 're going

to be have from the re . But com ing back in to se lf. Yeah and it 's tha t a lignm en t, body,

re laxed heart a t ease , sp irit, free m ind , figu ring it ou t and if you just live tha t way,

then everyth ing prese nts itse lf a s the next s tep and you im agine som eth ing is

com ing through the door and then you know, it 's a video gam e because the stuff

you 're im agin ing sta rts showing up as if you press som e kind of m agic button .

[Liz Dawn]: Couple m ore questions. Okay. So I th ink you answered th is, bu t wha t it,

wha t it fee ls like to be in tune with our e ssentia l se lves. Meaning wha t type of

experie nces m ight we have tha t ind ica te we 're on the righ t course?

[Martha Back]: Surprisingly enough one of the best ind ica tions is tha t people ge t

ve ry uncom fortab le a round you, because the d iam etric pa iring, the opposite of

na ture is cu lture . So when you sta rt to follow these princip les, you 're following your

body. If following your sp irit, it takes you in to a na tura l sta te of be ing. It 's not a

cu ltura l sta te of be ing. The cu ltura l sta te of be ing says, your body is a m echanism to

ge t your head to m e e tings, be a good girl, sm ile when you 're unhappy. You know,

pre tend you 're no t angry when you a re and your na ture will te ll you tha t's not

working and you will sta rt to say, you know wha t? And som e body will say, com e on ,

we 're a ll going to the gym to ge t drunk and you 'd be like , you know wha t? Not

ton ight. You guys and they'll be like , Oh, we ll, I guess you 're in to yourse lf. What a t

som e poin t if you follow your na ture , you will run a foul of your cu lture , you will do

the wrong th ings, and people will say, we ll, and if you look a t the people who've

rea lly changed h istory, they a lways d id tha t and so it 's a com bina tion of fee ling a t

hom e and sa fe and in in tegrity in yourse lf and rea lizing tha t you 're breaking

cu ltura l ru les. Tha t com bina tion is pre tty m uch a sure sign you 're on track when

people ge t uncom fortab le and it 's not an ea sy one , Sean and I know it ca lls it

transform ationa l te nsion tha t you hold the tru th when the pe ople a round you have

a d iffe ren t de fin ition of life and the re 's th is and you just hold your tru th and it 's

rea lly ha rd , bu t it 's super worth it and it 's , people ge t edgy or the y like , like when

they resona te with where you 're a t. I had an experie nce of tha t. I le ft Morm onism

a fte r growing up Morm on. Yeah and then wrote a book abou t tha t and ta lk about

running a foul of cu ltu re .

[Martha Back]: You know, I had dea th threa ts and the whole th ing pre tty m uch. This

was find ing your own North sta r? No, th is was ca lled Leaving The Sa in ts. It 's a

m em oir. Okay. How I lost the Morm ons and found m y fa ith because once I decide d

tha t I be lieved in God, I was like , Oh, Morm onism doesn 't rea lly work for m e . So I it

was m ore than a sort of live and le t live . I was like , no, th is actua lly doesn 't work for

m e and so I got trem endous am ounts of pushback in the lost m any, m any, m any

loved ones, you know, to just d istance . But I cam e out of 12 yea rs of chronic pa in

in to a life of no pa in physica lly and 12 yea rs and a life tim e of dep ression in to sort of

the uncaused joy tha t the Buddhist ta lk about and in to a p lace where th ings work.

Okay and a ll love to e veryone . I'm not saying m y pa th is , eve ryone 's Morm onism is

probably pe rfect for a lm ost a ll the Morm ons. I don 't know. But when you a re

ge tting be tte r and your cu lture is saying you 're ge tting worse , you 're probably doing

the righ t.

[Liz Dawn]: Now you wrote a beautifu l book. Many beau tifu l books. But Elizabe th

Gilbe rt tou te d th is and sa id everybody has to read th is book. Diana . It 's ca lled Diana

Herse lf and it 's about a wom an who goes off to the woods of Ca liforn ia , which I d id .

I went off on m y 50th b irthday. I bough t a ranch with a ll the m oney I had in the

world , which is no t a good th ing to do on your 50th b irthday. I bought th is ranch

tha t is contiguous with a na tiona l pa rk in centra l Ca liforn ia and I went ou t the re and

I d idn 't even know wha t I was doing the re .

[Martha Back]: I just was following tha t in tegrity th ing and it 's like buying th is ranch .

So I d id and I would ge t up every m orn ing in pa jam as, pu t on a pa rka and som e

rubber boots and just wa lk off in to the m ounta ins and I would tra ck an im als and

like com m une with na ture . I d idn 't know wha t I was doing. I was lite ra lly following

m y tru th and whe n th ings sta rted happen ing to m e , I sta rted tracking, I found the

tracks of a wild boar and I deve lope d a re la tionsh ip with th is an im al a s I tracked it

and I thought, you know, nobody's going to actua lly be lieve th is. If I read th is is no

longer se lf-he lp . Th is is just fla t ou t we ird a nd m agica l, m agica l th ings happe n to m e

and so I wrote it down as an a llegory or a nove l and I ca lled it Diana Herse lf

[Liz Dawn]: What are the teachings? What do you find three of the m ost po ten t

teachings in tha t book?

[Martha Beck]: The first th ing tha t occurred to m e is tha t the re a re , the re a re two

leve ls of consciousne ss a t work in a ll of us. One is our cogn itive consciousness. The

pa rt of us tha t knows we 're conscious and then the re 's a la rge r consciousness and

it 's like when I was pregnant with m y son , I could fee l th is la rge r fie ld tha t was h im ,

not m e , bu t it was a round m e . But it 's endle ss. It goes off forever. But I sta rted

ca lling tha t a m e ta se lf because tha t Metta in Greek is othe r, the othe r se lf or the

beyond se lf and I type tha t in to m y com pute r and it au to corrected to m ea tt se lf. So

the first th ing I'd say is know tha t you have a m ea t se lf and you have a m eta -se lf

and your m ea t se lf is the characte r in the video gam e and your m eta -se lf is the one

p laying the gam e and it 's ca lling a ll the shots.

[Martha Back]: It will send you off in to the forest and you won 't know why, bu t you 'll

fee l th is sense of m eaning and e nchantm e n t. So like I th ink we connected a t tha t

p lace . But and tha t's anothe r th ing to rem em ber it. If you go with your m eta -se lf,

the be ings of othe r crea tures and othe r pe ople a re com m unica ting a t tha t leve l and

we 'll b ring your m ea t se lves in to connection with each o the r. So I've been having

dream s about Liz Gilbe rt for severa l yea rs and I wou ld ana lyze m y dream s. Tha t's

one of the th ings I do is I coach , I ana lyze dream s and I try to find out wha t she

sym bolizes and I would do the ana lysis and it was a lways just Liz, Liz Gilbe rt. But it 's

like , Nope , just sym bolizes Liz Gilbe rt and then I wrote th is book, send it to he r and

she was, she had a bunch of books and she was going to chuck it a side and the n

she just sta rted com pulsive ly reading it, found m y em ail. I ne ver sen t he r the book.

Som ebody e lse d id a nd we sta rted ta lking and it was like , I've known you forever.

Our Metta se lves we 're se tting tha t up . So if you , if your m ea t se lf is willing to , to le t

go, your m eta -se lf will b ring, you will b ring your dream s and im agina tion in to the

world of form and it is going to be a wild and joyfu l ride and the la st th ing is , you

can trust the unive rse . It is a bru ta l world . The characte r I wrote as the protagonist

in tha t book is lite ra lly thrown away as a baby. You know, brown skin baby found in

a dum pste r, the lowest leve l of hum an socie ty and from the re she has to rea lize

tha t she is pa rt of God tha t she is absolu te ly d ivine and tha t the world tha t th rew

her away can still be trusted if she lea rns who she rea lly is . So she goes in to the

woods and she m ee ts a wild boar and they have adventures toge the r and tha t's a ll

I'm going to say abou t tha t.

[Liz Dawn]: Okay. So I have to fin ish it. Got it . Got to fin ish it. Okay.

[Martha Beck]: Well it 's funny because jave linas a re like little wild boars, righ t?

[Liz Dawn]: Okay, a couple of just fun , silly questions. All righ t. If you , had a word

tha t wou ld be your fa vorite , favorite word , wha t would it be and why?

[Martha Beck]: Probably Autopoiesis. Autopoiesis m eans the ca pacity to se lf

organize , like a flock of b irds. Huge flock of b irds m igra ting and they a ll form th is

one m ind or a h ive of bees. Hives of bees don 't have like writte n instructions. They

em erge from with in the na ture of each ind ividua l be e and the collective , and tha t's

a form of Autopoiesis. If we 're going to save the world , we hum ans who a re

destroying the world , if you 're going to save it for ourse lves, it 's going to have to be

through som e form of au topoesis. It 's not going to com e from governm enta l and

politica l structures. Those don 't work we ll enough and they don 't work fast enough.

But if our m eta -se lf a re engaged in an au topoesis, eve ryth ing could sh ift for a lot for

b illions of hum ans and tha t cou ld form an en tire ly d iffe re n t th ing in the chaotic

structures of the , of the world tha t we 've crea ted . So Autopoiesis could be the

saving of us.

[Liz Dawn]: It 's like when you see b irds go in form ation .

[Martha Beck]: Yeah , the re 's actua lly an a lgorithm for tha t. So it 's actua lly not, it 's

sim ple r than tha t for b irds, bu t it 's an exam ple of som e th ing form ing by itse lf and

for us it wou ld be like , I rea lly be lieve , and aga in , not science , th is is a sta tem ent of

fa ith . If a ll of us find our in tegrity and we fo llow tha t, the n au topoiesis will ensure

tha t we work toge the r, the b illions of us, to crea te enough change tha t life a s we

know it and as we love it can continue for our, for the seven gene ra tions forward

tha t the Am erican Ind ians were a lways keeping in m ind .

[Liz Dawn]: Tha t is beautifu l. Thank you Martha .

[Martha Back]: Thank you Liz so m uch. It 's so grea t to be he re with you and a ll the

people .

[Liz Dawn]: Well thank you so m uch for join ing us for th is portion of our Ce lebra te

Your Life online Sou lFest. We 've been with New York tim es bestse lling au thor,

Martha Beck and Martha , how can people find you dot com tha t was easy. Martha

beck.com to find out about he r Wayfinder coaching a ll of he r o the r program s tha t

she 's got to offe r. So check tha t ou t and a lso sha re th is in te rview with your friends.

This is CYL online Sou lFest. com and if you 've got any com m e nts or feedback, post it

be low in the com m ents. We 'd love to hea r from you and thank you aga in so m uch.

This has been a rea lly fun , rea lly fun and thank you .

martha beck cyl soulfest

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