mcilwain, william b. - select contributions and commissions in solo trombone repertoire by...

THE FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY

COLLEGE OF MUSIC

SELECT CONTRIBUTIONS AND COMMISSIONS IN SOLO

TROMBONE REPERTOIRE BY TROMBONIST INNOVATOR AND

PIONEER: STUART DEMPSTER

By

WILLIAM BENJAMIN MCILWAIN

A Treatise submitted to the

College of Music

in partial fulfillment of the

requirements for the degree of

Doctor of Music

Degree Awarded:

Fall Semester, 2010

ii

The members of the committee approve the treatise of William Benjamin McIlwain

defended on October 14, 2010.

__________________________________

John Drew

Professor Directing Treatise

__________________________________

Richard Clary

University Representative

__________________________________

Deborah Bish

Committee Member

The Graduate School has verified and approved the above-named committee members.

iii

I dedicate this to my loving wife, Jackie, for her support, guidance and

encouragement throughout our lives together.

iv

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I would like to acknowledge Stuart Dempster‘s unwavering support and

willingness to see this project through since its inception. In addition to his candor in the

interview process, Mr. Dempster put me in contact with colleagues and former students

who have helped in my research. Also, he took an active role in the editing process of the

transcripts and treatise, all of his own accord. It has been a true honor and privilege to

learn from him during this process.

Thank you to all of Mr. Dempster‘s students and colleagues that provided insight

during the research process. These generous people include James Lebens, Pauline

Oliveros, Scott Mousseau, Monique Buzzarté, Dan Wolch, Gretchen McNamara,

Nathaniel Oxford and Jonathan Pasternack.

Also, I would like to thank Dr. Deborah Bish and Professor Richard Clary for

their time and commitment to help make this process as painless as possible. I feel

particularly fortunate to have a major professor like Dr. John Drew, whose attention to

detail and never-ending support proved pivotal during the course of this journey.

Throughout my life, I have been blessed with a family that believed in me and

encouraged me, regardless of my seemingly lofty goals and aspirations. These family

members include Don and Debbie McIlwain, Brad McIlwain, George and Lori O‘Kain,

John O‘Kain, and Joanne O‘Kain. Last but not in any way least, I would like to thank my

wife for her wisdom, love and support. I will always appreciate how you beat me to the

finish line, Dr. Jackie McIlwain.

v

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Abstract ................................................................................................ vii

INTRODUCTION ..................................................................................... 1

1. STUART DEMPSTER .......................................................................... 3

1.1 As Performer .................................................................................. 5

1.2 As Teacher ..................................................................................... 12

1.3 As Commissioner ........................................................................... 15

1.4 As Composer .................................................................................. 16

1.5 As Healer ....................................................................................... 19

2. SELECT COMMISSIONS .................................................................... 22

2.1 Berio Sequenza V (1966) .............................................................. 23

2.2 Imbrie Three Sketches (1967) ........................................................ 30

2.3 Krenek Five Pieces (1967) ............................................................ 33

2.4 Erickson General Speech (1969) ................................................... 35

2.5 Suderburg Chamber Music III: Night Set (1972) .......................... 43

2.6 Erb Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra (1976) ....................... 47

CONCLUSION ........................................................................................... 50

APPENDICES ............................................................................................ 52

A TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH STUART DEMPSTER ....... 52

B TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH JAMES LEBENS................ 78

C TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH PAULINE OLIVEROS ...... 95

D STATEMENT BY SCOTT MOUSSEAU............................................ 103

E STATEMENT BY MONIQUE BUZZARTÉ ...................................... 106

F STATEMENT BY DAN WOLCH ....................................................... 109

G STATEMENT BY GRETCHEN MCNAMARA ................................. 115

H STATEMENT BY NATHANIEL OXFORD ....................................... 119

I STATEMENT BY JONATHAN PASTERNACK ............................... 121

J LIST OF COMMISSIONS AND DEDICATIONS .............................. 124

vi

K HUMAN SUBJECTS REVIEW BOARD EXEMPTION .................... 128

BIBLIOGRAPHY ...................................................................................... 130

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH ...................................................................... 134

vii

ABSTRACT

Trombonist innovator and pioneer, Stuart Dempster‘s diverse career has included

roles as performer, teacher, commissioner, composer and healer. Through extensive

interviews with Dempster, his colleagues and former students, this document will provide

biographical information and background on his career over the past five decades

including his experiences with the San Francisco Tape Music Center, didjeridu, Deep

Listening Band and his teachings at the University of Washington.

Additionally, six of Dempster‘s commissions will be discussed providing

background information on the composer, collaborative process and an examination of

any salient features of the work. The six commissions that will be discussed include

Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V (1966), Andrew Imbrie‘s Three Sketches (1967), Ernst

Krenek‘s Five Pieces (1967), Robert Erickson‘s General Speech (1969), Robert

Suderburg‘s Chamber Music III: Night Set (1972) and Donald Erb‘s Concerto for

Trombone and Orchestra (1976).

1

INTRODUCTION

Many of the advances in the various fields of science and technology would have

proven difficult to achieve without the emergence of pioneers and innovators. According

to Paul DiMaggio in ―Social Implications of the Internet,‖ more than fifty-five million

Americans went online during an average day a decade ago.1 In 2000, the World Wide

Web included over two billion Web pages and nearly two million pages added daily.2

Without World Wide Web inventor and pioneer, Tim Berners-Lee, this undeniable

technological advancement could have taken much longer to materialize.

Similarly, the phenomenon of innovations attributed to specific people can also be

found in the field of music. For instrumentalists, pioneers have facilitated the increase in

popularity of their particular instrument through performance, commissions,

compositions, and manufacture. Violinists have Antonio Stradivari and Niccolò

Paganini, while pianists have Henry E. Steinway and Franz Liszt. While the trombone

might not have yet reached the same heights in popularity as the violin or piano, the

instrument‘s prominence has greatly increased in the last one hundred years due to

significant figures who have championed it. Recently, many young trombonist‘s ears

have been saturated with recordings of the current giants in the trombone world, such as

Joseph Alessi and Christian Lindberg, while remaining unfamiliar with the strides that

Stuart Dempster pioneered for the trombone and its repertoire, laying the groundwork for

respect the trombone is garnering as a virtuosic solo instrument.

Dempster‘s major contributions to the advancement of the trombone include his

performances, teachings and commissions for new works for the instrument. In an article

marking his seventieth birthday and the fortieth anniversary of Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza

V, Chris Stover writes, ―until Christian Lindberg came along no one has done more to

expand the repertoire of the trombone than Stuart Dempster.‖3 Composer and friend

1 Paul DiMaggio, Eszter Hargittai, W. Russell Neuman and John P. Robinson, ―Social

Implications of the Internet,‖ Annual Review of Sociology 27 (2001): 308.

2 Ibid.

2

Robert Erickson recollects that after Dempster‘s first solo recital of new music at the San

Francisco Tape Music Center in 1966 the ―audience, musicians, and critics were

impressed, and that night Stu launched his campaign to place the trombone in the main

stream of contemporary music.‖4 Suffice it to say, Dempster‘s role in the rise in

popularity of the trombone among both composers and aspiring trombonists has been

pivotal and indisputable.

3 Chris Stover, “Stuart Dempster: Sedimental Journey,” International Trombone Journal 34, no. 2

(Spring 2006): 60.

4 Robert Erickson and John MacKay, Music of Many Means: Sketches and Essays on the Music of

Robert Erickson (Lanham, Maryland: Scarecrow Press, 1995), 72.

3

CHAPTER 1

STUART DEMPSTER

With nearly two dozen commissions for the trombone and twenty dedications by

other composers, Stuart Dempster‘s growth as a musician has been influenced by his

relationships with not only other musicians and composers, but also the audience that has

been captivated by his eccentric performances and artistic vision over the last fifty years.

Born in 1936 in Berkeley, California, Dempster began his musical studies on the piano,

studying with Hilda Weagant, a piano teacher who lived in his childhood neighborhood.5

In an interview with Abbie Conant, Dempster explains that the trombone ―kind of found

[him].‖6 Luckily for trombonists, his first choice of instrument in the fifth grade, the

trumpet, was not available, so he was given a baritone.7 After being told he would be

unable to take lessons on the baritone, Dempster switched to trombone in the tenth grade

and began to study with A.B. ―Chic‖ Moore.8 According to Dempster, Moore was a local

freelance trombonist in the San Francisco Bay Area.9

Throughout his childhood and adolescent years, some of Dempster‘s most notable

influences were his parent‘s 78 rpm record collection of operas and symphonies,

Standard Hour broadcasts on AM radio and a variety of jazz recordings. In addition to

San Francisco Bay Area jazz trombonists Kid Ory (whom he met while still in high

school) and Turk Murphy, Dempster also lists the bands of Tommy Dorsey, Count Basie,

5 Thomas Welsh, ―Stuart Dempster: An Interview,‖ In The San Francisco Tape Music Center:

1960s Counterculture and the Avant-Garde, ed. by David W. Bernstein (Berkeley and Los Angeles,

California: University of California Press, 2008), 252.

6 Abbie Conant, ―Stu Dempster Speaks about His Life In Music: Reflections on His Fifty-Year

Career as a Trombonist, in conversation with Abbie Conant,‖ Abbie Conant and William Osborne,

http://www.osborne-conant.org/Stu_Dempster.htm (accessed May 19, 2010).

7 Ibid.

8 Ibid.

9 Ibid.

4

Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Kenton, Frank Rosolino, and Spike Jones as specific groups that he

remembers listening to growing up.10

Other childhood favorites include the music of

Gilbert and Sullivan.11

As a college student, Dempster‘s listening expanded to include

―everything [he] could get a hold of,‖ such as world music, new music, and the comedic

music of Anna Russell, Victor Borge, Hoffnung festivals, and eventually PDQ Bach.12

Contrary to many aspiring trombonists, Dempster maintains that ―he was and still is more

interested in ‗music‘ rather than [any particular] ‗trombonist‘.‖13

One of the relationships that continued from his college years at San Francisco

State (1954-1958) to his current work in the Deep Listening Band is his friendship and

collaborations with the composer, Pauline Oliveros. Dempster‘s account of his initial

introduction to Oliveros took place during his freshman year of college, ―she was playing

French horn, I was playing trombone, literally meeting with our bells facing each

other.‖14

When asked about her memories of their first meeting, Oliveros recalled how

Dempster was ―full of really good humor…very, very energetic and very excitable…was

all over you, so to speak.‖15

Other composers who were classmates of Dempster and

Oliveros at San Francisco State College include Terry Riley and Loren Rush.

While in school Dempster became interested in composition, in particular, the

Composer‘s Workshop that was run at San Francisco State by Dr. Wendell Otey.16

Dempster recollects that a ―significant influence upon [his] budding interest in new

music‖ was the Composer‘s Workshop, which provided him with an opportunity to

perform new works written by some of the various composers in attendance.17

In

addition to performing some of these new works, Dempster also was introduced to the

10

Stuart Dempster, interview by author via e-mail, January 14, 2010 – April 28, 2010.

11

Ibid.

12

Ibid.

13

Ibid.

14

Welsh, 253.

15

Pauline Oliveros, Interview by author via phone, April 17, 2010.

16

Welsh, 253.

17

Dempster, Interview by author.

5

music of Berg, Schoenberg, Stravinsky, and Webern at listening sessions at the house of

another composer, Joseph F. Weber, during this time.18

During his undergraduate years

at San Francisco State, Dempster was consistently exposed to new music and new ideas

about music from his fellow students and through his own revelations.

Before returning to complete a master‘s degree in composition at San Francisco

State, Dempster volunteered for the draft in the summer of 1958.19

He was placed in the

Seventh Army Symphony, which toured Germany, France and Italy.20

As many of his

fellow musicians began to ―hate music,‖ Dempster saw himself ―slipping into [hating

music] a little bit‖ and ―rescued [himself] from that‖ by returning to San Francisco after a

two-year tour in the U.S. Army.21

Upon his arrival back in California, Dempster began what would become an

illustrious and multi-faceted career. Within a year of returning to San Francisco,

Dempster successfully won a position in the Oakland Symphony and began teaching at

the San Francisco Conservatory.22

Around this time, Dempster also became heavily

involved in performing and commissioning new works for the trombone. From the

sixties to present-day, his influential roles have crossed multiple avenues of music

including as a performer, teacher, commissioner, composer, and healer.

1.1 As Performer

From 1962 to 1966, Dempster served as principal trombonist of the Oakland

Symphony under the direction of Gerhard Samuel. During this time, he began to attend

faithfully some of the new music concerts that were beginning in San Francisco, such as

the Sonics series presented by his composer-friends, Ramon Sender and Pauline

18

Ibid.

19

Welsh, 253.

20

Ibid.

21

Conant, ―Stu Dempster Speaks about His Life In Music.‖

22

Welsh, 253.

6

Oliveros.23

According to Thomas Welsh, these concerts typically included tape pieces

and group improvisation.24

One major undertaking was called City Scale. This piece

used the entire city of San Francisco as the ―stage for a series of events, both planned and

unplanned…the objective of City Scale: to blur the boundaries between art and life.‖25

Either Ramon Sender or Morton Subotnick approached Dempster asking for his

participation by playing trombone in the Broadway Tunnel, which was along the route

the audience would take during the ―performance‖ of the piece.26

Dempster recalls,

―Well, I think I just did stuff and played with the echo and amused myself as I pretty

much wished to…‖ as the audience visited the Broadway Tunnel on their way to other

sites, like Russian Hill.27

Out of the Sonic series emerged the San Francisco Tape Music Center. Even

though tape music was a primary focus of the group, it was supplemented with free

improvisation and interdisciplinary experiments.28

According to David Bernstein, this

genre could be traced back to ―early twentieth-century Dadaist and futurist performance

art and more recently in works by John Cage.‖29

Pauline Oliveros recalls:

That was a great time, where we all had a really good time. It was really about

creating a new art form, which was multimedia; you know electronic music and

projected imagery. We were gathered around together in a musical endeavor to

work with electronic music, because at that time there were no places you could

work on that…so we had to create that space and that is what we did with my

colleagues: Ramon Sender, Morton Subotnick, and myself, Anthony Martin, Bill

Maginnis…We had a way of diffusing our music. We gathered a subscription

audience, put on concerts twice a month, and in a couple of years it built quite a

following…and also got critical reviews from the newspapers, which was very

23

Ibid, 253-254.

24

Ibid, 254.

25

David W. Bernstein, ―The San Francisco Tape Music Center: Emerging Art Forms and the

American Counterculture, 1961-1966,‖ In The San Francisco Tape Music Center: 1960s Counterculture

and the Avant-Garde, ed. by David W. Bernstein (Berkeley and Los Angeles, California: University of

California Press, 2008), 17.

26

Welsh, 254.

27

Ibid.

28

Bernstein, 14.

29

Ibid.

7

important at the time. So, it was basically a lot of interaction amongst people who

were interested in developing the medium. Also, we had visitors from different

countries that came to the Tape Music Center, because they didn‘t have access

themselves. So, it was a very rich environment…a lot of fun.30

Stuart Dempster made his first major appearance at the San Francisco Tape Music

Center performing Pauline Oliveros‘s Pieces of Eight in 1964.31

The piece used eight

alarm clocks with performers on clarinet, trombone, trumpet and various packing crates,

lighting effects, a bust of Beethoven, collection plates and a cast-iron cash register.32

When asked about the theatricality of the performance, Dempster remembers it as a

―defining moment…one that really took me somewhere and I never recovered.‖33

Another memorable performance of Dempster‘s was John Cage‘s Concert for Piano and

Orchestra, which Dempster ―had various instruments in my quiver for that, including the

garden hose.‖34

Dempster played at the first performance of Terry Riley‘s In C at the

Tape Center.35

About In C, Dempster reminisces that as he played he was drawn ―into

this space somehow, this mental space as you played it…it was like watching a

kaleidoscope turn really, really slowly…‖36

In 1965, Folke Rabe, trombonist and

composer, and Dempster participated in an improvised performance for Anna Halprin‘s

Dance Company.37

Dempster recalls, ―I was amazed at what I saw and, frankly, was

amazed at our music-making together.‖38

Stuart Dempster‘s first full solo recital of avant-garde works for the trombone

took place at the San Francisco Tape Music Center on March 21 and 22, 1966. The

30

Oliveros, Interview by author.

31

Welsh, 255.

32

Ibid.

33

Ibid, 256.

34

Ibid, 257.

35

Ibid, 258.

36

Ibid.

37


38

Ibid.

8

program included world premieres of Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V, Robert Erickson‘s

Ricercar a 5 and Pauline Oliveros‘s Theater Piece for Trombone Player and Tape.39

The

other remaining pieces on the program were Larry Austin‘s Changes, John Cage‘s Solo

for Sliding Trombone and Barney Childs‘s Solo Sonata.40

Dempster remembers:

It was rather an ―all out‖ effort. The commission pieces took a lot of work to get

in shape, or to get them at all, and the other three I had never performed before

either. There was a lot of grunt work in practicing and, at the performances

themselves, there was a tremendous amount of staging issues to take care of as

well as making ―prop‖ lists and organizing personnel. I needed stage hands, I was

doing all the publicity myself, and the printing of programs and a brochure was

mine to do, too. It was not like now; at the time one had to have a lot of lead time

to get anything printed. Then there was the mailing to everyone I could think of.

The ―all outness‖ of the concerts themselves became apparent to anyone who

attended simply through the sheer amount of theater, staging and lighting even if

they may have been unaware of all the other preparations mentioned above. The

concert attracted the critics, but then almost anything going on the San Francisco

Tape Music Center (SFTMC) attracted some kind of attention. I may have

generated a largish audience simply because I was attracting composers,

performers, theater and dance people, and even visual artists.41

With pieces that were demanding in a variety of regards from endurance, technique, and

pacing to theatrical elements like acting and movement, Robert Erickson writes that

―audience, musicians, and critics were impressed, and that night Stu successfully

launched his campaign to place the trombone in the main stream of contemporary

music.‖42

When approaching the music of the avant-garde, specifically extended techniques

on the trombone, Dempster has always been on the forefront of discovery. He explains

that ―there is a pleasure of learning these sounds and techniques simply for their own

sake and appreciating the diversity and differences as they begin to define ‗idioms‘ of the

trombone.‖43

One of his main inspirations for learning many of these techniques was the

39

Welsh, 261.

40

Erickson, 72.

41


42

Erickson, 72.

43


9

San Francisco Tape Music Center.44

During the early 1960s, many of the electronic

sounds did not sound very good, according to Dempster.45

He explains, ―I was arrogant

enough to think that I could do these things better [on the trombone], and sometimes I got

away with it.‖46

Additionally, Dempster maintains that he liked to ―goof around‖ in

rehearsals and ―make funny noises imitating sounds [he] heard on Spike Jones recordings

and, later on, Hoffnung Festival recordings.‖47

Early on in his performance career, Stuart Dempster began to avail himself of

non-traditional instruments as additional tools in his performance art, such as garden

hoses and conch shells. An example of this can be found in Pauline Oliveros‘s Theater

Piece for Trombone Player and Tape written for him. Not written for the typical slide

trombone, this piece utilizes garden hose instruments.48

In his book, The Modern

Trombone, Dempster argues that ―a garden hose fitted with a trombone mouthpiece is

really a trombone of nonadjustable length, just as the trombone may be considered an

adjustable-length garden hose.‖49

Theater Piece uses garden hoses that are incorporated

into sculptures by the choreographer Elizabeth Harris.50

With one sculpture, the ―candle

trumpet,‖ funnel bells with candles are placed at the end of the garden hoses, which allow

the performer‘s breath to dictate the amount and type of light that results.51

A second

sculpture, the ―sprinkler horn,‖ has lawn sprinklers attached to the ends of the garden

hoses that rotate, ―spewing forth baby powder, smoke, or whatever else might have been

loaded in them.‖52

Apparently, the tape portion of Theater Piece used previously-

44

Welsh, 262.

45

Ibid.

46

Ibid.

47


48

Stuart Dempster, The Modern Trombone: A Definition of its Idioms (Berkeley and Los Angeles,

California: University of California Press, 1979), 73.

49

Ibid.

50

Ibid.

51

Ibid.

52

Ibid, 74.

10

recorded sounds of Dempster, which Oliveros explains, ―We got together and he made a

lot of sounds for me. I recorded his sounds and put together the piece. So it was as

simple as that.‖53

One of the most influential instruments in Stuart Dempster‘s music is the

Australian aboriginal didjeridu. Dempster goes as far to say that the didjeridu was a

―constant source of inspiration‖ with many of the techniques used on the didjeridu, such

as vowel shaping and multiphonics, having ―direct application to the trombone.‖54

After

the completion of his Ricercar á 5, Robert Erickson introduced Dempster to the

didjeridu.55

Following six years of his own experimentation with the instrument,

Dempster received a Fulbright Fellowship to study the didjeridu with aboriginal

Australian performers.56

With timbre being the ―default‖ in Australian aboriginal music

and pitch becoming secondary, the music of the didjeridu and the study of the instrument

supplemented many of his experimentations with sounds on the trombone.57

About

studying the didjeridu, Dempster states, ―the time has come…aboriginals hold answers to

questions that trombonists and other brass players are just beginning to learn how to

ask.‖58

The essence of theater is an additional characteristic that is evident in much of the

performance art of Stuart Dempster. In his book, The Modern Trombone, he maintains

that ―few other instruments can approach the theatrical implications of the trombone.‖59

These implications are found in the slide, which provides a visual, as well as audible

relationship through its movement in and out.60

According to Dempster, these

implications can be traced back to New Orleans jazz, minstrel shows, and vaudeville,

53


54

Dempster, The Modern Trombone, 94.

55


56

Ibid.

57

Ibid.

58


59

Ibid, 73.

60

Ibid.

11

with ―real theatrical consciousness for trombone players‖ emerging through vaudeville

and the Spike Jones era.61

While preparing Pauline Oliveros‘s Theater Piece for

Trombone Player and Tape, Dempster worked with Elizabeth Harris to develop

choreography for the piece.62

As a result of this collaboration, Dempster states that he

―began to consider all kinds of aspects of performance in light of that experience.‖63

These theatrics have resulted in countless memorable performances for Stuart Dempster

ranging from the ―cabaret‖ setting with white dinner jackets and lighting for Robert

Suderburg‘s Chamber Music III: Night Set to the ―out of hand‖ theatrical considerations

in Robert Erickson‘s General Speech, which gets a ―huge reaction every time.‖64

Robert

Erickson goes on to say that ―it is hard to believe that a performer who looks meek as a

bank clerk could be doing such outlandish things on stage and producing such outlandish

sounds.‖65

The most memorable performance of his most well-known commission,

Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V, took place at the BBC when Berio ―organized as many

‗original‘ Sequenze performers as he could.‖66

Trombonist James Lebens explains that

―just to see [Dempster] perform… you know the innocence and the energy…just the

child-like humor and total lack of pretension. One of the things I most despise in life is

pretension. He is totally devoid of it. His music is total honesty.‖67

Likewise, music

critic R.M. Campbell also points out that Dempster ―can be relied upon to be more than

musically competent and is often very funny.‖68

61

Ibid, 75.

62


63

Ibid.

64

Ibid.

65

Erickson, 76.

66


67

James Lebens, Interview by author via phone, March 21, 2010.

68

R.M. Campbell, ―Dempster‘s Wit,‖ Seattle Post Intelligencer, February 13, 1975.

12

1.2 As Teacher

Stuart Dempster‘s performing career was supported by decades of service to

higher academia. While a member of the Oakland Symphony, Dempster served on the

faculties of California State College at Hayward and the San Francisco Conservatory.69

After a spending one year as a Creative Associate at the State University of New York at

Buffalo under Lukas Foss, Dempster was appointed assistant professor at the University

of Washington in 1968 and awarded full professorship in 1985.70

According to many of his students, humor was an ever-present tool in his

teachings. Trombone professor at the Université Laval in Canada James Lebens explains,

―[Dempster] taught me that you can have humor in a lot of things. You can have it as a

teaching tool [and] use it in concerts to put the audience at ease and bring them in.‖71

Another student of Dempster‘s, Monique Buzzarté recalls that from her first meeting with

him, ―his gentleness and humor [were] quite evident.‖72

Dan Wolch‘s memories of

lessons with Stuart Dempster were ―that we were always laughing. Stu always tried to

make things fun, he had many witty and whimsical remarks. His personal character is

very warm and nurturing with a dash of humor thrown in.‖73

Even though as a performer Dempster was well known for his extended

techniques on the trombone, many of his students maintain that the study and

reinforcement of fundamental techniques were at the heart of his teaching. These

fundamental techniques included aspects of breathing, articulation, sound production, and

slide technique. Both James Lebens and Gretchen McNamara remember Dempster

always trying to address any ―little noise in the system,‖ or ―garbage in the sound,‖

because if you practiced with that ―noise‖ and failed to get rid of it; it would never go

69

Edward H Tarr, ―Dempster, Stuart,‖ In Grove Music Online, http://www.oxfordmusiconline.

com.proxy.lib.fsu.edu/ subscriber/article/grove/music/07545 (accessed May 28, 2010).

70

Ibid.

71

Lebens, Interview by author.

72

Monique Buzzarté, E-mail message to author, March 15, 2010.

73

Dan Wolch, E-mail message to author, March 4, 2010.

13

away. 74

As far as breathing and initiating sound on the instrument, Lebens describes

Dempster‘s metaphor of the trombone being a double-bowed instrument:

As far as his teaching…one of his big things was ―use your air as a bow.‖

[Dempster] said, ―The trombone is actually a double-bowed instrument.‖ The

slide is one of the bows, so that has to be moved gracefully and the air is the other

bow. That was one of the other things that got me over the Valsava as well. I just

would tell myself that my air is not working like a bow. It‘s getting stuck…75

Discussing slide technique further, Dan Wolch points out that Dempster always believed

that with arm flexibility, ―the player can actually play complex passages more smoothly

and musically-even though it might ‗feel‘ and even look as though the arm is moving

slower, it‘s actually moving just as quickly, but more efficiently.‖76

One of Dempster‘s

own memories pertained to his emphasis on blowing from the gut. Dempster recalls his

use of the ―Dempster‘s Get-A-Bigger-Hammer Hammer,‖ which he would hold to any

―students [who] were lazy in their gut…it got their attention quicker and more

appropriately than anything I have ever heard of, let alone used.‖77

Like any successful teacher, Stuart Dempster had many thoughts on successful

practice techniques. One of the great frustrations of any aspiring instrumentalist is

successfully tackling that seemingly impossible passage. Dempster constantly reiterated

with his students that when you can play the passage correctly once, you need to continue

to reinforce the passage until it is played correctly more times than not; therefore

―increasing your percentage‖.78

The concept of ―backwards practice‖ was also a tool that

Dempster utilized. ―Backwards practice‖ requires the musician to add notes one at a time

preceding a small difficult passage after successful renditions, hence building confidence

leading up to the passage, as well as confidence in the passage itself.79

Another practice

technique that Dempster impressed upon his students was to make a list of up to five

74

Lebens, Interview by author.

75

Ibid.

76

Wolch, E-mail message to author.

77


78

Gretchen McNamara, E-mail message to author, March 18, 2010.

79


14

things to concentrate on during that particular practice session, such as breathing, posture

or slide technique.80

The student then would reevaluate the list periodically throughout

their practice session.81

According to Gretchen McNamara, ―knowing how to practice

well and knowing how and what specifically to listen for is so important.‖82

The mental side of playing a musical instrument was never ignored in Dempster‘s

teaching. His simple motto was ―put the play back into playing music.‖83

Typically, this

motto was used to address those students who tended to over-analyze many aspects of

their playing. Jonathan Pasternack explains that Dempster

urged me always to ―play with abandon,‖ partially in an attempt to free me of my

overly cerebral approach to trombone playing, an approach which had led me to

an intellectual over-determination of my playing and, thus, my articulation

dysfunction. After weeks of working on this, Stuart triggered what led to our

breakthrough, when he looked at me intensely and said, ―I hope you realize we

are in this together.‖ 84

Contrary to this idea of ―playing with abandon,‖ an apathetic mind is not ideal either. For

those students who tended to lose focus while playing, Dempster would say, ―You are

playing as though you wish you were doing something else, like sailing.‖85

After being

told this during the course of a lesson, Dan Wolch recalls that his sound became more

resonant and his playing was better in tune as he began to listen more intently to

himself.86

Like any successful teacher, Dempster used a variety of motivational

techniques. He recalled one technique in particular:

When I detect a student being a bit lazy or in a rut I often would say, ―Shall we

generate a crisis?‖ I would then send them to the recital coordinator and have

them set a date a reasonable length of time out depending upon how close they

80

Ibid.

81

Ibid.

82

McNamara, E-mail message to author.

83


84

Jonathan Pasternack, E-mail message to author, March 14, 2010.

85


86

Wolch, E-mail message to author.

15

might be or could be. Even for the less experienced students, a half recital date a

few weeks or months ahead can generate quite a stir up of practice habits.87

As a teacher, Stuart Dempster has impacted the lives of many aspiring

trombonists. According to Pasternack, Dempster‘s ―unique combination of total

commitment, creative analysis, perseverance and out-of-the-box experimentation--not to

mention [his] contagious optimism‖ helps many of his students succeed in a variety of

areas, both inside and outside the music field.88

1.3 As Commissioner

Unlike the solo repertoire of many of other instruments, trombone solo repertoire

does not include landmark works by giants in composition such as Mozart, Beethoven, or

Strauss. However, beginning in the twentieth century, composers began to investigate

further the capabilities of the instrument. Among the greatest contributions of Stuart

Dempster to current and future trombonists is the multitude of compositions he pioneered

for the instrument. This includes nearly forty compositions that were either

commissioned by or dedicated to Dempster.89

Even though he has always regarded himself as a performer, Dempster sought out

the opportunity to collaborate with any willing composer. While he was performing at

the San Francisco Tape Music Center, Dempster sent ―a little tape of sonic fragments‖ to

various composers.90

Dempster explains that he was frustrated ―over the dearth of quality

trombone literature‖ and ―realized [that he] was in a unique position to do a little

something about it.‖91

Interestingly, this tape formed the basis for the recordings

87


88

Pasternack, E-mail message to author.

89


90

Welsh, 260.

91


16

associated with his book, The Modern Trombone.92

As far as the theatrical nature of

many of these works, Dempster recalls, ―When I commissioned composers, I really

wanted to give them a free hand…I had no idea I was going to have theater pieces. It was

the furthest thing from my mind.‖93

The importance of collaboration between composer and performer was essential

in the creation of many of these works. From his writings in The Modern Trombone,

Dempster maintains that the quality and significance of new compositions increases as

the performer and composer join efforts in its creation.94

One of Dempster‘s long-term

collaborators, Robert Erickson, writes, ―the essential thing is to work close to the

player…with the sounds of a particular player in one‘s ears over a long period of time

one‘s attitude toward the instrument and its sounds becomes much more concrete.‖95

Dempster mirrors this opinion, explaining that the quality of his commissions ―was not

accidental, but rather due to a deep commitment on the part of both composer and

performer and a willingness to work closely together.‖96

Among Dempster‘s most

popular commissions are Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V and Robert Erickson‘s General

Speech.

1.4 As Composer

Stuart Dempster might be regarded as a successful composer, but not in the

traditional sense. Much of his compositional output is conceptual or spontaneous in

nature and written solely for him to perform.97

As can be seen in the score of his Ten

Grand Hosery in the appendix of his The Modern Trombone, Dempster‘s scores usually

92

Ibid.

93

Conant, ―Stu Dempster Speaks about His Life In Music‖.

94


95

Erickson, 73.

96


97


17

consist mainly of text that provides ―information about ‗thought processes‘,‖ instructions

for specific actions, or ideas ―to contemplate as point(s) of departure.‖98

In addition to

Ten Grand Hosery, Dempster‘s music also consists of group-led improvisations, such as

his album, Underground Overlays from the Cistern Chapel, and spontaneous composition

as heard in his participation with the Deep Listening Band.99

While a Fellow in the Center for Advanced Study at the University of Illinois-

Urbana from 1971 to 1972, Dempster composed Ten Grand Hosery. Dedicated to

Pauline Oliveros, this piece is large in scope with the use of a musician playing didjeridu

and ten garden hoses that are attached to the sound boards of ten grand pianos, a dancer,

―sculptorchestra,‖ supplementary dancers, and the audience.100

Organized into five

sections, the work begins with the musician entering playing the didjeridu as he gradually

walks from one piano to the next. At some point a solo dancer enters and dances around

the musician as the section concludes.101

During the second section, the musician sits on

the floor with the ―bouquet of mouthpieces‖ that is connected to each of the ten hoses.

He then proceeds to ―send sound from one piano to the other‖ through the hoses. The

dancer continues to move, becoming entangled in some of the hoses. In the third section,

―Divertimento for Sculptorchestra,‖ Dempster requests the use of various sculpted

instruments that ―have been made especially interesting to view, or else sculptures that

have the ability to make sound or that can be played.‖102

After a brief fanfare played by

the musician, the audience is asked to join the musician by lying on the floor amongst the

grand pianos. The piece concludes with the audience joining in the dancing as the piece

evolves into a ―social get-together.‖103

Dempster credits Chungliang Al Huang, a Tai Ji

98

Ibid.

99

Ibid.

100

Demspter, The Modern Trombone, 90.

101

Ibid., 91.

102

Ibid, 92.

103

Ibid.

18

master, as a significant contributor to many of the movements, dancing and theatrical

aspects of the piece.104

A large amount of Stuart Dempster‘s music has emerged from ―led‖ group

improvisations that take place in highly reverberant spaces. An example of this is his

album, Underground Overlays from the Cistern Chapel, which is recorded in an empty,

two-million gallon water tank near Port Townsend, Washington with a forty-five second

reverberation time.105

Dempster explains:

I was improvising and composing in real time, in the sense that improvisation is

real-time composition. I had no score for me - but I provided a ―score‖ for the

other performers through my playing (and ―conducting‖). I had three basic

instructions: 1) when I pointed to any one of the performers they were to play

back what they heard me playing and keep that material going until I came around

again to give them something different; 2) if I raised my horn up high, that was to

designate a solo either for me, or if I pointed to someone else while raising the

horn, it would be for that other person, and 3) if I faced down, that would serve as

a cutoff either to a specific person or to several if I faced in succession more than

one of them.106

During the recording for this album, the nine musicians involved had to ―read [Dempster]

and his performance like a score,‖ while playing a variety of instruments including

trombones, conch shells, didjeridus, and Tibetan cymbals.107

A final example of Stuart Dempster‘s compositional output is his work with

Pauline Oliveros and the Deep Listening Band. Pauline Oliveros defines ―deep listening‖

as ―experiencing heightened awareness of sound, silence, and sounding. The key word is

‗experiencing‘ it.‖108

Oliveros goes on to say that the concept of ―deep listening‖ began

during the Band‘s first experience in the underground cistern; the same space that

Dempster would later record his Underground Overlays.109

With a forty-five second

reverberation time, mistakes are not easily forgotten resulting in a heightened awareness

104 Dempster, Interview by author.

105

Ibid.

106


107

Stover, 59.

108


109

Ibid.

19

that leads to ―deep listening.‖110

According to Dempster, the only discussions prior to the

recording session pertained to ―what would be a useful didjeridu length that would work

with Pauline Oliveros‘s just-tuned accordion.111

About their collaboration, Oliveros

explains:

Stuart is very reliable. We know what each other can do, and yet we keep doing

things that are different even though some of the sound vocabulary is very

familiar. That is a very interesting phenomenon. It is musical inventiveness that

pours out. It‘s very wonderful to be able to play together after so many years.

And each time the experience has a different flavor, because it is a different time.

Even though there is great familiarity, there is great inventiveness.112

In 2005, Dempster and Oliveros celebrated fifty years of collaboration including their

work with the Deep Listening Band in a telematic performance titled Sedimental Journey

with Dempster in Seattle at the University of Washington‘s DXARTS and Oliveros in

Troy, New York at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute with a virtual concert presented at

Mills College in San Francisco with live audiences at all three locations.113

1.5 As Healer

A final perspective on the life and career of Stuart Dempster is his role as a

healer. The concept of music being used for healing purposes might be a recent

phenomenon in America, but it is a centuries-old practice in many cultures ―where

playing music assumes that there is a healing or restorative component.‖114

For example,

the Australian aboriginal didjeridu has long been used in didjeridu resonance therapy, or

DRT. Michael Brosnan, an experienced practitioner of DRT, contends

that the therapeutic reasoning underlying DRT is that: ―every organ, bone and

tissue in the body has a resonating frequency at which it normally vibrates. When

110

Ibid.

111


112


113

Stover, 54.

114


20

disease sets in, the vibrations in that part of the body become unbalanced.‖ What

the resonance produced by the didjeridu can do is to envelop the whole body,

realigning and equalizing the flow of energies… ―a massage at the atomic and

molecular level.‖ The vertebrae of the spine are important because they are

―exceptional sound resonators,‖ capable of picking up sound vibrations and

transmitting them along nerve pathways to all organs and tissues. The goal of

DRT is to harmonize the body back to its ―natural resonating frequency.‖115

Dempster credits much of his interest in healing and music from his collaborations with

Pauline Oliveros, who states that ―music should make one feel good.‖116

After recording

his album, Stuart Dempster In the Great Abbey of Clement VI, he realized he was able to

―raise people‘s life energy‖ after he was approached by behavioral kinesiologist John

Diamond, M.D. about the healing properties of his music.117

Not only did Diamond

make Dempster aware of the natural, positive energy of his music, Diamond helped

―enhance [Dempster‘s] ability to direct positive energy to another person or an

audience.‖118

Beginning in 1986, Dempster‘s Sound Massage Parlor was born. This title

refers to a collection of performances and events that involved trombones, garden hoses,

didjeridus, singing, and audience interaction.119

Dempster describes that during one of

these Sound Massage Parlor events, he would ―perform and share one on one, or perhaps

three to seven at a time…in the healing process.‖120

Going on, Stover adds that these

events aim to exchange negative energy with positive energy and ―realign the molecules

of the body‖ with sound vibrations.121

Perhaps the greatest tool in these healing events is humor. In Stover‘s article,

Dempster points out that ―humor is healing too…between the seriousness and the humor,

115 Karl Neuenfeldt, ―Good Vibrations? The ‗Curious‘ Cases of Didjeridu in Spectacle and

Therapy in Australia,‖ The World of Music, 40, no. 2 (1998): 37.

116

Stuart Dempster, Statement on Sound Massage Parlor emailed to author, February 11, 2010.

117

Ibid.

118

Ibid.

119

Stover, 57.

120

Dempster, Statement on Sound Massage Parlor emailed to author.

121

Stover, 57.

21

if you can‘t tell which it is then I know I‘m in the right place.‖122

During the Sound

Massage Parlor events, the audience is encouraged to create sounds that are ―beautiful,

funny, meditative, silly, spiritual…the more collective it is the better the experience.‖123

The presence of humor can also be seen in the titles to the compositions of the Sound

Massage Parlor: ―Acuhosery,‖ ―Aura Fluff,‖ ―Didjeriatsu‖ and ―Sonic Facial.‖124

From his roles as a performer, teacher, commissioner, composer, and healer,

Dempster always seems to keep humor at the forefront, while also pushing the limits of

the norm. Summing up his career, Dempster states:

My work is at its best when it is equally appealing and appalling, appealing to

some and appalling to others; it is most noticeable with the theater pieces. These

are special fun and playful balances but they are not all that easy to do. Well, it is

relatively easy for me because that is what I do. I guess one could say that I live

for those balances.125

122

Stover, 57.

123

Dempster, Statement on Sound Massage Parlor emailed to author.

124

Ibid.

125


22

CHAPTER 2

SELECT COMMISSIONS

Much of the emerging interest in the modern trombone during a majority of the

twentieth century can be credited to Stuart Dempster, trombonist-innovator and pioneer.

In addition to his contributions in the areas of performance, composition, pedagogy, and

healing, Dempster is also credited with inspiring nearly forty compositions for solo

trombone that have encouraged an increase in new literature for the instrument. His most

well-known commission for the trombone has become a cornerstone in the repertoire for

the instrument, Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V. However, this is only one of many that

Dempster helped bring to life. Among some of his more popular commissions are

Andrew Imbrie‘s Three Sketches, Ernst Krenek‘s Five Pieces, Robert Erickson‘s General

Speech, Robert Suderburg‘s Chamber Music III: Night Set, and Donald Erb‘s Trombone

Concerto.

At first glance, attempting to play many of Stuart Dempster‘s commissions might

seem daunting, if not impossible, to someone unfamiliar with avant-garde music, but

many aspiring modern trombonists have reached various levels and degrees of success

through patience, persistence, and creativity. In addition to learning the repertoire,

Dempster maintains that there are pedagogical advantages to being able to perform many

of the extended techniques that are used throughout his commissions.126

According to

Dempster, learning to produce multiphonics correctly on the trombone encourages

embouchure stability and sensitivity to intonation issues.127

Concerning vowel shaping,

he states that a young trombonist‘s ability to assess any embouchure issues will increase

as they become more comfortable with the manipulation of it.128

Lastly, there is a

―pleasure of learning these sounds and techniques simply for their own sake and

126

Dempster, interview by author.

127

Ibid.

128

Ibid.

23

appreciating the diversity and differences as they begin to define ‗idioms‘of the

trombone.‖129

2.1 Berio Sequenza V (1966)

Written in 1966, Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V marked the beginning of Stuart

Dempster‘s decades-long outpouring of commissions and dedications and also ushered in

a new era in composition for the trombone. In his article for Contemporary Music

Review, Barrie Webb writes, ―Luciano Berio‘s Sequenza V now enjoys a firm place in the

repertory, and has been influential up to the present-day in encouraging the composition

of new works for solo trombone.‖130

This piece was premiered by Dempster on his first

full solo recital of avant-garde works for trombone on March 21, 1966.131

Luciano Berio (1925-2003) was born on the coast of Italy in the small Ligurian

port city of Oneglia.132

Growing up by the sea at the age of eleven, Berio had decided

that his dream career was as a captain of his own boat.133

Osmond-Smith explains that

Berio describes his own life as a ―voyage that has taken in many ports of call.‖134

Like

many great composers before him, Berio grew up in a musical family; his grandfather,

Adolfo, and his father, Ernesto, were both organists and composers.135

In 1944 having

reluctantly joined Mussolini‘s army, Berio was injured when a gun misfired, severely

injuring his right hand, which ruled out any possible future as a professional pianist.136

129

Ibid.

130

Barrie Webb, ―Performing Berio‘s Sequenza V,‖ Contemporary Music Review 26, no. 2: 207.

131

Welsh, 261.

132

Osmond-Smith. "Berio, Luciano."

133

David Osmond-Smith, Berio, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1991), 1.

134

Ibid.

135

Ibid.

136

Ibid, 3.

24

Beginning his musical studies with his musical father and grandfather, Berio went on to

study with Ghedini at the Milan Conservatorio. 137

On May 28th

, 2003, Luciano Berio‘s obituary appeared in the New York Times.

Paul Griffiths reports that Berio‘s love for music ―was exuberantly promiscuous, and it

drew him close to Italian opera (especially Monteverdi and Verdi), 20th-century

modernism (especially Stravinsky), popular music (the Beatles, jazz), the great Romantic

symphonists (Schubert, Brahms, Mahler) and folk songs from around the world.‖ 138

Berio‘s musical output includes a variety of chamber music, electronic music, an opera,

and orchestral music.139

Among these compositions include his fourteen Sequenzas for

various instruments, one of which was written for unaccompanied trombone.140

Four men are seen as instrumental in the creation and emergence of Berio‘s

Sequenza V written in 1966. These men include trombonists Stuart Dempster and Vinko

Globokar, Adrian Wettach ―Grock,‖ and the composer himself. In a 1994 International

Trombone Association Journal, Buddy Baker compiled two written transcripts of taped

interviews with Dempster and Globokar discussing Berio‘s Sequenza V.141

Dempster

admits that while he commissioned Berio to write the solo for him, Berio worked much

of the latter part of the Sequenza V with Vinko Globokar ―unbeknownst to me at the

time.‖142

Apparently, the last half of the piece, Section B, was composed first, having

been performed by Globokar in the mid-1960s as a piece called Essay.143

In regards to

the first half of the piece, Dempster explains that he and Berio worked certain parts of

137

Ibid.

138

Paul Griffiths, ―Luciano Berio Is Dead at 77; Composer of Mind and Heart,‖ New York Times,

May 23, 2003, under ―Arts,‖ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage. html?res=9E00E2DF1131F93

A15756C0A9659C8B63 &sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1 (accessed September 24, 2008).

139

David Osmond-Smith,―Berio, Luciano,‖ Grove Music Online, 2003, http://www.oxfordmusico

nline.com. proxy.lib.fsu.edu/subscriber/article/grove/music/02815 (accessed March 5, 2010).

140

Ibid.

141

Buddy Baker, ―Why? How about Who, Where, What, When?-The Development of Berio‘s

Sequenza , ‖ International Trombone Journal 22, no.2, (Spring, 1994): 30-33.

142

Ibid., 30.

143

Ibid., 33.

25

this out together.144

While Berio had an outline of Section A, Dempster states that he

suggested the head turns and vowel sounds. 145

As Berio tried to come up with a way to

end Section A, the ―as awkward as possible‖ line emerged. 146

Dempster explains that

this was created ―so you‘d look like you‘re really scuffling.‖147

As is present in the performance of the piece, the creation was also full of drama.

Even though Dempster commissioned the work, Berio failed to tell him he was working

with Globokar on the piece.148

Dempster goes on to say, ―maybe [Berio] thought I‘d be

mad if I found out there was another guy in on this thing when I was paying money to

commission the piece-he was probably right.‖ 149

Globokar explains that he studied with

Berio beginning in 1964 and was told of future plans of a trombone Sequenza with

Dempster.150

Even though Dempster had two years of performance rights and first

recording rights to the piece, Globokar performed the London premiere of the piece and

the first recording of the work on the Deutsche Grammophon label, both at the request of

Berio himself. 151

In response to a letter written by Dempster, Globokar explains that he

―did not know about [the rights] and that [he] had also asked Berio to make clear to

Stuart what he (Berio) had done.‖ 152

The most important person to the creation of Sequenza V did not even know about

it. This person was Karl Adrien Wettach, also known as Grock. Inducted into the Clown

Hall of Fame in 1992, Grock was the highest-paid artist at one time in Europe.153

Born in

144

Ibid., 30.

145

Ibid.

146

Ibid.

147

Ibid.

148

Ibid.

149

Ibid., 31.

150

Ibid.

151

Ibid., 30, 33.

152

Ibid., 33.

153

Abbie Conant, ―Grock‘s Biography,‖ Grock and the Berio Sequenza V, http://www.osborne-

conant.org/Grock.htm (accessed October 1, 2008).

26

1880 in Switzerland, he went on to become the ―King of Clowns‖ in Europe in the early

1900s.154

One of the trademarks of Grock‘s act was his use of musical instruments; he

could play twenty-four different ones. 155

He died in Italy in 1959.156

It is common knowledge that Berio wrote his Sequenza V with Grock in mind. In

Dempster‘s pedagogical book, The Modern Trombone, he writes that Sequenza V tells the

―story‖ of Grock, while the ―trombonist‘s actions acoustically and visually attempt to

portray this story.‖157

Berio has admitted that the memory of Grock has played a pivotal

role in this piece.158

At the end of Grock‘s career, he had an extravagant villa built next

to Berio‘s home in Italy.159

Berio recalls a significant ―Grock‖ moment in his life:

Discovering him was a great moment, in him there was a musical quality blended

with humanity and depth—a blend of humour and profundity. For example,

halfway through a wonderfully interpreted scene he‘d stop and stare at the

audience with an expression of confusion—No, it is impossible to describe it.

He‘d ask warum? why? It was a really beautiful moment. That‘s why I wrote a

sequenza about this warum?, only not warum? in German, but why? in English.160

In order to perform the piece as Berio envisioned, it is imperative that the relationship

and comparisons between Grock and Sequenza V are understood and used to portray the

Grock ―story.‖

As Berio previously states, the word ―WHY?‖ is the ever-present question in this

piece, providing an overwhelming cohesion to this avant-garde work.161

Webb explains

that the word ―WHY?‖ is the thematic key to the entire work.162

First, at the end of

Section A, the performer is required to ask ―WHY?‖ in a ―bewildered‖ way. Throughout

154

Ibid.

155

Ibid.

156

Ibid.

157

Dempster, The Modern Trombone, 76-77.

158

Conant, ―Grock‘s Biography.‖

159

Webb, 208.

160

Ibid.

161

Ibid.

162

Ibid., 211.

27

the work, the soloist is asked to use vocal sounds (―u-a‖, ―u-a-i‖) with and without the

trombone that mimics the pronunciation of the word ―WHY?‖. Additionally, Berio uses

a metal plunger to reinforce the audible result of the word ―WHY?‖ being heard in the

various trombone vocal techniques. Another way that Berio attempts to produce this

word audibly on the trombone is in the arrangement of pitches usually high-low-high.

From beginning to end, the fragments of the word ―Why?‖ can be heard in the short

plunger openings and closings and in many of the multiphonic passages in Section B.

The performer is required to stand for Section A, which portrays one of Grock‘s

performances. Dempster says that this section and its continuing building of franticness

and hysteria should demonstrate how Grock might have performed the work had he been

a trombonist.163

The raising and lowering of the trombone in the beginning of the piece,

echoes one of Grock‘s performances with his miniature violin in which he would raise

and lower his head and the bow of the violin in dramatic fashion.164

At the end of the

first section before the vocal utterance of the word ―WHY?,‖ the soloist plays four notes

in decreasing volume: G, B, G, B. These notes correspond to the first letters of the

composer and the clown: Grock, Berio, Grock, Berio.

The vocal exclamation of the word ―WHY?‖ provides a bridge between the two

sections. Grock was known to have uttered this word in his own acts.165

On a more

personal level, Berio could be questioning why his neighbor Grock died not too long

before he wrote this piece. Another more philosophical explanation could be a general

question of ―WHY?‖ Why do people who make such a positive impact on the world die?

Or even, why should such an avant-garde seemingly controversial piece be respected as a

work of art?

Before the beginning of Section B after the question ―WHY?,‖ the performer

plays a pedal B-flat. Interestingly, this note is the fundamental of the overtone series in

first position on the trombone. When approached with a question that the answer is not

163


164

Webb, 208.

165

Ibid.

28

known, it is common to go back to the beginning; in this case, the beginning is the

fundamental, pedal B-flat.

Continuing into Section B, Grock‘s influence is always present. Contrary to

Section A, this section has the performer sitting, which was a common practice in some

of Grock‘s musical acts.166

Another possibility is that Section B is the breakdown of

Berio‘s grief and feelings over the loss of his neighbor. With the performer seated in this

section and playing in an overall softer, more introspective manner, Section A‘s use of

theatrical gestures create a sense of standing tall, while Section B could be seen as a

collapse of the performer over the death of Grock. Webb admits that this section could

be the composer‘s ―In Memoriam‖ to Grock.167

Techniques in the latter half of Sequenza V include multiphonics, continued use of

the metal plunger, inward singing (the process of vocalizing inhalations), flutter tonguing,

multiple tonguing, timbral trills, and vocalizations. All of these techniques are used to

create an uninterrupted sound palate that continues until the end of the work. At the end

of the work, Berio again alludes to Grock three times as the question ―WHY?‖ is

presented (―u-a-i‖). The piece ends with a seamless presentation of sound with

alternating voice and trombone on, not coincidentally, the note ―e,‖ which impresses

upon the audience a sense of looking deep inside the heart of our thoughts on life and the

ever-present question, ―WHY?‖.

Even though it is common knowledge that homage to Grock was Berio‘s intention

in Sequenza V, performances of the work differ greatly. For example, Dempster often

―enter[s] in quite agitated fashion‖ dressed in tails, while Vinko Globokar tends to

perform the work in normal dress and without theatrics ―allowing the observer to focus

on the performer‘s gesture and the musical shaping.‖168

As the performer is deciding the

degree of showmanship to portray, one resource that should be noted is trombonist Abbie

Conant‘s website, which contains an entire section on Grock including video clips and

166

Ibid.

167

Ibid., 211.

168

Webb, 209.

29

commentary.169

While some performers opt to perform the work dressed in white face

and a clown costume, others point out that too much silliness could detract from the

substance found in the music.170

Globokar explains, ―When I saw the first time

somebody did it in a clownesque way, I found it superfluous, not necessary, because the

piece is so strong musically.‖171

From Globokar‘s normal dress to Dempster‘s formal

wear or even Toyija Tomita‘s use of white face, one of the first questions a performer

should address is the level of showmanship and theatrics they aim to portray.

An initial glance at the style of notation that Luciano Berio uses might seem

unfamiliar to many newcomers to modern music. Divided into two sections, Sequenza V

utilizes a system of proportional notation that can take some acclamation. The notation

of Section A requires the performer to pace themselves as instructed by ―gear changes

(expressed as 6‘‘, 4.5‘‘, 4‘‘ and 3‘‘)‖ that are presented at the beginning of each line.172

Similarly, Section B suggests a time unit of twelve seconds at the beginning, but its

pacing tends to depend more upon the breathing considerations of each performer.173

Therefore, every performance of this piece is different. For example, the lengths of

performance for the following Sequenza artists differ greatly: Stuart Dempster‘s

recording on Berio: The Complete Sequenzas-5:01, Vinko Globokar‘s recording-7:28,

Christian Lindberg‘s recording on The Virtuoso Trombone- 5:18, and Christian

Lindberg‘s recording on The Solitary Trombone- 6:03. Other unconventional uses of

notation include the description of dynamic relationships through numbers and an added

line under each staff, which depicts the closing, opening, and rattling of the metal

plunger.

A variety of extended techniques are used throughout this work, including

extensive use of a metal plunger, multiphonics, vowel shaping, inward singing, timbral

trills, and flutter tonguing. In order to be able to open, close, and rattle the metal plunger,

169

Conant, ―Grock‘s Biography.‖

170

Webb, 209.

171

Ibid.

172

Webb, 210.

173

Ibid.

30

the performer will need to adjust the balance of the instrument to the right hand,

especially during Section A that requires the horn to be raised and lowered. Stuart

Dempster maintains that the ―pinky of the right hand‖ is essential to maintain balance,

while the left hand is engaged with the plunger.174

Concerning multiphonics, the

challenge is to be able to sing not only above, but also below the played pitch. For many

this can prove to be a difficult task. In his The Modern Trombone, Dempster includes an

exercise for multiphonics that instructs the performer to sing and play a unison note and

then sing away from the unison slowly in either direction.175

Another consideration is the

low vocal range needed for the Sequenza V. Having performed the piece in 1976 by

singing many of the vocals an octave higher, Abbie Conant states that it is ―annoying in a

way, because [Sequenza V] presupposed that the player would be male.‖176

Berio also

utilizes vowel shaping, along with the use of the plunger, to allude to the recurring

motive of Sequenza V, ―Why?.‖ In order to produce successfully particular consonants

(―u‖, ―u a‖ or ―u a i‖), the performer must reshape the embouchure to approximate the

given vowel requested. A much simpler technique is inward singing, which is the act of

producing sound as air is inhaled. Easily accomplished, this technique is a ―marvelous

theatrical gesture.‖177

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of timbral trills concerns

intonation. As the performer plays the same note quickly alternating between various

positions, intonation must be solid. Lastly, flutter tonguing tends to be an easy technique

for many to perform; however, some are genetically unable to roll their tongue, so a

guttural growl or some other creative substitute will be necessary.

2.2 Imbrie Three Sketches (1967)

Unlike many of the other commissions of Stuart Dempster, Andrew Imbrie‘s

174

Conant, ―Stu Dempster Speaks about His Life in Music.‖

175


176

Conant, ―Stu Dempster Speaks about His Life in Music.‖

177


31

Three Sketches is more conventional and seldom uses extended techniques. According to

Dempster, Imbrie apologized for his limited use of extended techniques, which Dempster

replied by saying, ―I wanted him to be himself and to compose what he really wanted to

compose and not feel he had to use new sounds.‖178

Other conventional characteristics of

Three Sketches include its three-movement scheme, lack of theatrics, and the use of piano

accompaniment.

An American composer, Andrew Imbrie was highly successful at a very young

age. Beginning at the age of four, Andrew Imbrie (1921- 2007) found his first musical

exploits at the keyboard studying with Ann Abajian, Leo and Pauline Ornstein, Olga

Samaroff, Rosalyn Turek and Robert Casadesus.179

Imbrie‘s piano studies were soon

overtaken by his composition studies with teachers including Nadia Boulanger and Roger

Sessions.180

At the age of twenty-three, Imbrie received a New York Critics Circle

Award for his String Quartet No. 1, which was recorded by the Juilliard String Quartet.181

His other awards include the Prix de Rome (1947), the Alice Ditson Award (1947), the

National Institute of Arts and Letters Grant (1950), the Boston Symphony Merit Award

(1957), the Brandeis Creative Arts Award (1957), two Guggenheim Fellowships

(1953,1959), the Walter Hinrichsen Award (1971) and the Berkeley Citation (1991).182

With commissions from the Koussevitzky, Fromm, Ford, and Naumburg Foundations,

the New York Philharmonic, the San Francisco Opera and the San Francisco Symphony

Orchestra, Imbrie‘s compositional output consists of five string quartets, two operas,

three symphonies, eight concertos, multiple songs for voice and numerous sonatas and

chamber works for various instruments.183

In addition to his career as a composer, Imbrie

served on the faculties of the University of California, Berkeley and the San Francisco

178


179

Olly W Wilson, ―In Memoriam: Andrew Welsh Imbrie, Professor of Music, Emeritus,‖

University of California, Berkeley Memorandum, (Berkeley, California: University of California, Berkeley

Press, 2007), 1.

180

Ibid.

181

Ibid.

182

Ibid., 3.

183

Ibid., 2-3.

32

Conservatory, along with visiting professorships at the University of Alabama, the

University of Chicago, and Brandeis, Harvard, and New York universities.184

Even though the work might seem more conventional than some of Dempster‘s

other commissions, Imbrie‘s Three Sketches does have some modern characteristics.

Written one year after Berio‘s Sequenza V, Andrew Imbrie does not take advantage of the

theatrical nature of the trombone like Berio, but does utilize the expansive range and

dynamic extremes of the instrument. During the creation of Three Sketches, Imbrie asked

Dempster about high range capabilities of the trombone and Dempster said, ―I always

state that the C# above the tenor clef staff is the last really good sounding high

note…Andrew Imbrie in his Three Sketches, [goes] no higher than this C# but [uses] that

C# liberally.‖185

Also, throughout the work the trombonist is required to adjust dynamics

dramatically, many times within the span of a few beats.

Three Sketches is structured in three movements with the slow movement

appearing last. At the beginning of each movement, Imbrie alludes to twelve-tone

serialism with presentations of rows that typically fail to develop completely after their

initial introduction. In addition to these intermittent row presentations, Imbrie also uses

complex rhythms that are typical of the style.

Even though the use of extended techniques is seldom, Imbrie does highlight a

few in Three Sketches. These include lip trills, multiphonics (simultaneously singing and

playing), timbral trills (rapid alternation of the slide positions on the same note), and the

use of piano resonance. During the second movement, the trombonist is required to

perform multiphonics in the middle and lower registers of the instrument, which

Dempster explains:

[Imbrie] wanted trills in that register and I suggested certain multiphonics in place

of them. Trills in that register are garbage - granted, that ―garbage‖ would have a

certain appeal - but those multiphonics do virtually the same thing as the trill does

an octave higher. At least it is a good enough illusion to make for a much cleaner

result than an actual trill would do in that lower register. Those multiphonics are

184

Ann P. Basart and Martin Brody, ―Imbrie, Andrew.‖ Grove Music Online, 2003,

http://www.oxford musiconline.com.proxy.lib.fsu.edu/subscriber/article/grove/music/13728 (accessed June

13, 2010).

185


33

actually great sounds in their own right, but serve the function of the trill quite

well. Imbrie was quite happy with the result.186

At the end of the second movement, Imbrie concludes an extensive timbral trill passage

with the trombonist playing into the piano, capturing resonance from the instrument.

About this Dempster writes, ―it adds a whole new dimension to the trombone-piano

relationship, bringing about a climactic moment that would otherwise be rather

routine.‖187

Three Sketches ends with a sustained chord in the piano that spans six

octaves accompanied by a sustained multiphonic in the trombone.

2.3 Krenek Five Pieces (1967)

Austrian composer Ernst Krenek (1900-1991) wrote Five Pieces for trombone and

piano for Stuart Dempster in 1967. Even though the work consists of a variety of

extended techniques for the trombone including slap tongue, flutter tongue, mouthpiece

hits, removal of valve slides, timbral trills, a bark, throat clearing, shaking a plastic

handle in the bell and rolling the bell on piano strings, the piece‘s notational style is

traditional, not graphic like one might expect from such an avant-garde composition. In

an interview with fellow composer Will Ogdon concerning graphic notation, Krenek

explains:

Again I feel that some of these endeavors touch upon gimmickry, since the

unfamiliar and often very involved symbols make grasping the composer's ideas

more difficult, slow and uncertain, rather than facilitating it, which in my opinion

should be the ultimate purpose of any kind of notation. I apply this criticism also

to some of the elaborate prefaces and instructions we find in so many new scores

because they are more likely to befuddle the reader than to tell him in generally

understandable technical language how to go about playing the music.188

186


187

Dempster, The Modern Trombone, 68. 188

Will Ogdon and Ernst Krenek, ―Conversation with Ernst Krenek,‖ Perspectives of New Music,

10, no. 2 (1972): 108.

34

Another unique characteristic of this work is the composer‘s pairing of avant-garde

sounds of the trombone with similar avant-garde sounds of the piano. Stuart Dempster

points out that ―this was quite different than Berio or Erickson or even Suderburg [who

used] less of the raw materials, but developed them in their own special ways during the

course of their pieces.‖189

Born in 1900 in Vienna Austria, Ernst Krenek was a prodigy. Shortly after

beginning piano lessons at the age of six, he started composing for the instrument and

studied composition with Franz Schreker of the Vienna Music Academy.190

According to

Garrett Bowles, Krenek‘s compositional style matured in the 1920s as favorable reviews

of his compositions led to a contract with Universal Edition.191

Also, during this time

period he met and married Anna Mahler, the daughter of Gustav Mahler, which afforded

him with an ―entrée into the Mahler circle.‖192

One of his greatest public successes was

his opera Jonny spielt auf (Johnny Plays On), which contains many jazz-like elements,

similar to some of the jazz-influenced music of Igor Stravinsky and Darius Milhaud.193

This opera led to Krenek‘s exile from Germany by the Nazi regime as his opera was

targeted and labeled as ―degenerate music.‖194

Following his naturalization as a citizen

of the United States, Krenek began his journey in higher education, teaching at a variety

of schools including Malkin Conservatory, the University of Michigan, Vassar College,

Hamline University, and finally at the University of California, San Diego.195

With

nearly two hundred and fifty compositions, Krenek is regarded as a ―prolific writer and

critic, as well as an avid educator.‖196

189


190

Michael Beckerman, ―Ernst Krenek,‖ The Orel Foundation, http://orelfoundation.org/

index.php/ composers/article/ernst_krenek (accessed June 29, 2010).

191

Garrett Bowles, ―Krenek, Ernst.‖ Grove Music Online, 2003. http://www.oxfordmusic

online.com.proxy.lib.fsu.edu/subscriber/article/grove/music/15515 (accessed June 29, 2010).

192

Ibid.

193

Beckerman. 194

Ibid.

195

Bowles.

196

Beckerman.

35

Krenek wrote Five Pieces for Stuart Dempster after he retired to Palm Springs,

California. During this time, Krenek also served as an advisor during the formation of

the music department at the University of California, San Diego by his former student,

Robert Erickson.197

Throughout his Five Pieces, Krenek places the trombonist and

pianist on equal footing, demanding a high level of execution and coordination by both

parties. In the introductory movement, the composer presents an intricate musical

conversation between the two parts supported by the use of mutes, flutter tongue and

slide vibrato in the trombone and extreme low register demands in the piano. Following

this movement, the next begins with the emerging sound of the trombone alternating

between the bell and an open valve slide supported later by multiphonics and piano

resonance. The engagement of the outer hand slide on the ―top tube only‖ in the third

movement allows the performer to approximate pitches through the trombone slide,

which Dempster points out, makes the trombone emulate a garden hose, ―about nine feet

long without a bell and with the slide fully stretched.‖198

Other techniques found in Five

Pieces include muttering through the trombone, rolling of the bell on the piano strings,

shaking a plastic-handled percussion stick against the bell, whistling over the

mouthpiece, and timbral trills. Similarly, the pianist is required to perform some unusual

techniques, such as plucking piano strings, tone clusters with the forearm, and striking a

part of the wooden structure of the piano. According to Dempster, one of his favorite

sounds is the ―dog bark,‖ which follows the muttering in the third movement.199

He

explains that ―these vocal animal sounds are not difficult, and they have a long tradition

in didjeridu playing.‖200

2.4 Erickson General Speech (1969)

Much of Robert Erickson‘s music fails to fall into the mainstream of today‘s

197

Bowles.

198


199


200

Ibid, 41.

36

classical music. Charles Shere regards Erickson as a ―maverick,‖ similar to other

composers like Charles Ives, Edgard Varèse, Harry Partch, and John Cage.201

While

these other composers were finally accepted as essential to the forward momentum of the

western classical musical tradition, specifically the music of America; Erickson‘s place in

the time-line and evolution of 20th

century American music has yet to be determined.202

In 1968, Erickson composed General Speech for solo trombone. Stuart Dempster, who

commissioned this work, regards this piece as ―one of the most amazing and thought-

provoking works ever composed for the trombone.‖203

In summation, Charles Shere

describes this piece as a ―theater piece that combines political satire, instrumental

virtuosity, and the composer‘s continuing research into the no-man‘s land existing

between speech and music.‖204

Born in 1917, this Michigan native‘s early beginnings were surrounded by sounds

both musical and non-musical. In addition to the ―maverick‖ label, Shere also states that

Erickson is ―quintessentially American, and small-town middle-American, self-taught to

a great extent, a tinkerer.‖205

Erickson‘s mother died during the Great Flu Epidemic of

1918, so young Erickson was traded among his various relatives, all of whom were

musically talented: his uncle Harold was a piano tuner, his uncle Emil built pianos, his

uncles Gus and Andrew built violins, his father played mandolin, and his step-mother

sang and played violin.206

Other influences on the young composer were the sounds of

Lake Superior‘s waves, gentle or rough depending on the weather, beaver tails slapping

at the water as they built their dams, and various streams.207

In his Summer Music for

solo violin, Erickson used the natural sounds of running water to accompany the

201

Charles Shere, Thinking Sound Music : The Life and Work of Robert Erickson (Berkeley, CA:

Fallen Leaf Press, 1997), xv.

202

Ibid.

203


204

Shere, Thinking Sound Music, 152-153.

205

Ibid, 3.

206

Ibid, 3-4.

207

Ibid, 4.

37

violinist.208

Industrial noise heard in his childhood can also be traced to many of his later

compositions.209

Erickson explains, ―When you come right down to it, what we all do is

compose our environment.‖210

While studying at Michigan State University and Hamline College, Erickson

made many acquaintances. These include his composition teachers May Strong, Wesley

La Violette, Ernst Krenek, and Roger Sessions.211

In addition, he became close friends

with Ben Weber and George Perle, both composers.212

While at Michigan State

University, Arnold Schoenberg visited and presented a lecture on Brahms. At a reception

after the lecture, Erickson was able to meet with Schoenberg and arrange a time the next

day for Schoenberg to take a look at Erickson‘s music.213

While Schoenberg silently

looked over Erickson‘s short composition, Erickson recalls:

I wondered what he was looking for—the pieces weren‘t that difficult. Perhaps

he was looking for rows, or more likely some sort of musical sense. For tone

rows he would have had to search all day. Those pieces were, as I remember,

violently atonal, athematic and without much rhythmic profile. I was a long way

from thinking about organization. Anyway, like any beginner I wanted to know

only if he liked them, if he thought there was any hope, if he thought I should give

it all up or continue. Big questions, to be settled by no more than a hundred little

black notes. Not much evidence on which to pronounce. There must have been

some sort of communication because I left the meeting encouraged, buoyant…214

After brief service in the Army, Erickson moved to California to teach and

compose. In San Francisco, California, Erickson taught at San Francisco State, University

of California, Berkeley, and San Francisco Conservatory where he was a ―significant

influence‖ on younger composers such as Pauline Oliveros, Terry Riley, and Morton

208

Ibid, 5.

209

Ibid, 3-5.

210

Art of States, ―General speech (1969),‖ http://artofthestates.org/cgi-bin/piece.pl?pid=11

(accessed March 26, 2010).

211

Charles Shere, ―Erickson, Robert,‖ Grove Music Online, 2003. http://www.oxford

musiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/08933 (accessed March 26,2010).

212

Art of States.

213

Charles Shere, Thinking Sound Music, 18.

214

Ibid.

38

Subotnick.215

Also, Erickson co-founded the music department at University of

California, San Diego, whose main focus was contemporary music performance and

research.216

In addition to his teaching and composition, he wrote many articles on topics

ranging from ancient Greek and Chinese tunings, phonetic influences on music, teaching

Mahlerian orchestration and contrapuntal composition.217

His books include The

Structure of Music: A Listener's Guide (1955) and Sound Structure in Music (1975).218

The first collaboration that Robert Erickson and Stuart Dempster shared took

place in the spring of 1966 at the San Francisco Tape Center with Ricercar a 5, a piece

for a quartet of pre-recorded trombones that would accompany a live trombone soloist,

―five Dempsters.‖219

Erickson stated that

sounds are no use to a composer until they are fully absorbed, familiar enough to

be controllable, so I suggested to Stu that we meet at my house on Tuesday and

Thursday mornings to play with these sounds and their nuances. We met for

several months, mornings fro nine to twelve, twice a week, and that long period of

working so closely with a great instrumentalist profoundly altered my approach to

composing.220

While most of the technical improvements Erickson attributes to Dempster, he maintains

that some of the overall sound concepts were his own.221

The first performance of

Ricercar a 5 was joined with works by Barney Childs, Larry Austin, John Cage, Pauline

Oliveros, and Luciano Berio.222

This performance took place at the San Francisco Tape

Center and was Stuart Dempster's first all-out recital of new music.223

215

Art of States.

216

Ibid.

217

Charles Shere, ―Erickson, Robert.‖

218

Ibid.

219

Charles Shere, Thinking Sound Music., 70.

220

Ibid.

221

Ibid., 71.

222

Ibid., 72.

223

Ibid.

39

As a theater piece, General Speech is Robert Erickson‘s interpretation and

perspective on General Douglas MacArthur‘s farewell speech given at Westpoint in 1962

as he was awarded the Thayer Award. Historian David McCullough explains:

You couldn't shrug your shoulders at Douglas MacArthur. There was nothing

bland about him, nothing passive about him, nothing dull about him. There's no

question about his patriotism, there's no question about his courage, and there's no

question, it seems to me, about his importance as one of the protagonists of the

20th century.224

Dempster explains that MacArthur always seemed to ―convey this image of being about

nine feet tall‖ as he was ―revered in some parts of the world and reviled in others.‖225

As

Erickson played recordings of MacArthur's speech, both Erickson and Dempster were

―taken with the amazing vocal style.‖226

Contrary to what one may believe, delivering this speech through the trombone

was not an easy task. Erickson states that ―it is easy to deliver speech through a

trombone, much harder to produce esophagal speech through it, and most difficult to

make musicalized speech transformations.‖227

Erickson explained that once he gave

Dempster an audio example of a speech fragment, he would return with various

possibilities on the trombone.228

In a manuscript from an upcoming book, Dempster

writes:

We set to work on what turned out to be about three hundred hours of side by side

work. He would play a tape of MacArthur speaking, and ask me to transliterate it

through the trombone. On a two or three word phrase it would often take twenty

or thirty minutes, as Erickson would describe the nuances that would make the

phrase just right. Finally (with great relief), I would get the phrase or word

perfectly. I thought, "Wonderful, that's done," but he would then look at me and

say, "Now tell me what you are doing." Flabbergasted, I would start in, again

playing the little phrase or word over and over, all the while Erickson probing the

little nuances that made the sound work. On and on we would work until we had

224

Digger History. ―General Douglas MacArthur.‖ http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-

leaders/ww2/macarthur.htm (accessed March 26, 2010).

225


226

Ibid.

227

Erickson, 75.

228

Ibid.

40

a notation that represented what was really going on. This continued through

three generations of the score over a period of about a year. The end result is a

surprisingly clear score considering the difficulty of notating speech. 229

The traditional presentation of the notation ―cannot be overemphasized, because it

enables a performer to assimilate the piece more quickly.‖230

Written in bass clef, the

notation is spatial with the speed depending upon the pacing of the speech. All dynamic

considerations are presented in a traditional way and all extended techniques are notated

clearly with arrows up or down for microtones and directions for other techniques, such

as slap tongue or diaphragm vibrato. In addition to the staff, Erickson also includes two

lines of text. While the smaller text is the actual speech of General MacArthur, the larger

text is the same speech spelled phonetically. Lastly, several pauses are notated with

fermatas and time durations with specific instructions, such as ―hard stare, survey

audience‖ or ―drink from half-filled water glass.‖231

A huge asset to solving many of the speech to trombone problematic issues was

the study of the didjeridu. Following his introduction to the Australian instrument in

1967 by Robert Erickson, Dempster received a Fullbright fellowship in 1973 to study the

didjeridu with Australian aboriginals.232

Many of the vowel and consonant shaping

techniques found in General Speech are also used in traditional didjeridu performance

practices.233

Dempster maintains that the vowel enunciations on the didjeridu are

extremely important to achieve clarity approaching speech.234

Erickson‘s interpretation includes the presentation of this famous speech through

the bell of the trombone. In the performance notes for the piece, the performer is

instructed to wear full dress tails with medals and other appropriate insignia painted with

229

Stuart Dempster, Unpublished manuscript excerpt from the chapter ―Working with Robert

Erickson‖ in the book, Stuart Dempster at Work. Emailed by Dempster to author, January 27, 2010.

230

Ibid., 27.

231

Ibid, 85-86.

232


233

Stuart Dempster, The Modern Trombone, 94.

234

Ibid.

41

fluorescent paint, a military hat, dark glasses, shoulder pads, and white satin gloves.235

In

addition to the costume considerations, the soloist must prepare a podium adorned with

small American flags, along with an adjoining table on which there is a pitcher of water

and a glass to be used during the piece.236

Attention to lighting is necessary with the need

for a spotlight, black light, and two red lights on a dimmer.237

While the range and other traditionally technical demands of fast articulations or

large leaps are not present, General Speech is a very difficult piece to perform well.

Along with researching the mannerisms of General MacArthur, the trombonist must

acquire and master all of the theatrical elements and extended trombone techniques of the

piece. These aspects include stage directions, acting, vowel shaping, microtones, flutter

tongue, throat sounds, velar click, half-valve notes, privileged notes, and vibrato.238

The

stage directions and acting are clearly described and notated in the music. Throughout

the performance of this work, the trombonist must maintain character by producing ―hard

stare(s)‖ and a ―pointed jaw.‖239

Other theatrical aspects include taking a moment to

―stick out the chest to show off the medals,‖ coughing through the instrument followed

by a quick drink of water, and various lighting effects at the conclusion of the work.240

As

far as the performance techniques in this piece, most commonly used one in General

Speech is vowel shaping, which requires the trombonist to reposition the tongue and

reshape the oral cavity to approximate a particular vowel sound. In order for the words

of the speech to be heard and understood by the audience, the performer must strive for

clarity, which can be a very difficult thing to grasp in a short amount of time. Dempster

reiterates this importance by saying, ―I must continually work to execute vowels and

consonants properly, although, it must be admitted, it has been far easier since studying

235

Ibid., 82.

236

Ibid.

237

Ibid.

238

Gerald Felker, ―Thoughts on the Study and Performance of General Speech,‖ In International

Trombone Journal 32, no. 1, (Winter 2004): 32.

239

Ibid.

240

Ibid, 83.

42

the didjeridu.‖241

According to Dempster, the ―most elegant example of the best

‗microtones‘‖ is found in General Speech.242

These presentations of microtones create

flexibility in pitch that helps to mimic the sound of human speech.243

Utilization of

diaphragm vibrato is mainly for theatrical effect on particular long-held syllables.

Erickson‘s notation of this technique is very clear. Another technique used in this piece

is throat sounds. Primarily mimicking coughing or throat clearing, the performer is

required to produce this sound twice through the trombone, the second time with their

hand over the bell followed by a quick drink of water. Half-valve notes and split tones

are clearly notated throughout the piece and further support the ―sprechstimme‖ quality

that Erickson and Dempster were hoping to achieve.244

The soloist is instructed to shape the embouchure in certain ways, while playing,

so as to imitate General MacArthur speaking. For example, the General‘s speech begins,

―Duty, Honor, Country…‖245

Erickson instructs the trombonist to use the following

annunciations while playing to effectively imitate these three words, ―DOO-TEE—YON-

OR—CUNT‘TREEEEEE.‖246

Explaining the reasoning for the phonetically spelled

syllables, Dempster states that the pronunciation of the English word, ―ski,‖ is actually

pronounced, ―suki.‖247

Similarly, the word, ―country,‖ is actually pronounced,

―cunthuhree,‖ hence the need for attention to these detailed pronunciations in the score if

the goal for MacArthur‘s speech being recognized through the bell of the trombone is

ever achieved.248

Even though the text might not be clearly heard, its ―inflections are

241

Ibid., 17.

242

Ibid., 27.

243

Ibid.

244

Ibid.

245

General Douglas MacArthur, ―Duty, Honor, Country,‖ YouTube Web site,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgqSI1BESVE (accessed March 26,2010).

246


247

Ibid, 16.

248

Ibid.

43

unmistakable, and enough of the words do come through to make Erickson's extramusical

meaning clear.‖249

This parody of MacArthur's speech on the trombone, as previously stated, was a

collaborative effort. Many of the visual conceptions, lighting, and costume ideas were

developed by Robert Erickson's wife, Lenore Erick-Alt, an artist working in painting and

with stained glass.250

In addition to the contributions already mentioned, Dempster also

provided some of the ideas for the staging, gestures, pacing, and the final title of the

work. Erickson supports the importance of this collaboration, stating that his wife, and

Dempster were ―equally important to the final result, and that collaboration, which was

more like constant cross-fertilization, is the chief reason for its success.‖251

2.5 Suderburg Chamber Music III: Night Set (1972)

Robert Suderburg‘s utilization of extended techniques in his Chamber Music III:

Night Set for trombone and piano is unique compared to the other commissions being

discussed. While the work does have some avant-garde characteristics, the approach that

Suderburg takes is considerably influenced by jazz. Included in the score to the Chamber

Music III is a dedication written by the composer to his jazz trombonist-father, R.A.

Suderburg:

Thus, when commissioned by Stuart Dempster for a Night Set for trombone, the

musical occasion was offered to let out those hot-licks and sliding-styles which

were the jazz trombonist‘s stock and trade during the thirties and forties as he

wandered from indoor dance hall to outdoor bandstand and from club date to

stage show. Hopefully, nurtured by Dempster‘s unique performance-art, these

styles and scenes can live again in NIGHT SET, fusing memory with filial bit-of-

the-devil and sweetness with satire. Thus the work is dedicated to my father,

249

Charles Shere, Thinking Sound Music, 153.

250


Erickson‖ in the book, Stuart Dempster at Work.

251

Erickson, 76.

44

who-along with Stuart Dempster-should take a bow, at least for those portions of

the work which may please or amuse. 252

Born in 1936, Robert Suderburg grew up in a musical family. His father, a jazz

trombonist, and his mother, a school teacher, introduced Robert Suderburg to music at an

early age.253

Beginning at the age of eight, he took lessons on trumpet and piano at the

MacPhail School of Music in Minneapolis, Minnesota.254

With degrees from the

University of Minnesota, Yale University, and the University of Pennsylvania, his

primary composition teachers were Earl George, Paul Fetler, Quincy Porter, Richard

Donovan and George Rochberg.255

Throughout the majority of his life, Suderburg

maintained a dual career as a composer and academic. He served as Chancellor of the

North Carolina School of the Arts from 1974 to 1984 and recently retired from Williams

College where he was Composer-in-Residence and Chairman of the Department of

Music.256

In addition to thirteen pieces in his Chamber Music series, Suderburg‘s

compositional output also includes works for choir, solo voice with chamber orchestra,

band, percussion ensemble, and one work for amplified trombone and automobile

orchestra.257

Stuart Dempster and Robert Suderburg‘s relationship began several years before

Chamber Music III: Night Set was conceived. According to Dempster, they met in

Philadelphia around 1966 and later worked together in a contemporary music ensemble

that Suderburg formed at the University of Washington.258

Not only did this ensemble

receive a $250,000 Rockefeller Grant in 1967, but commissioned works by George

252

Robert Suderburg, Chamber Music III: Night Set, (Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania: Theodore

Presser Company, 1980).

253

Michael Miles, ―An Interpretive and Stylistic Analysis of the Chamber Music VII and Chamber

Music VIII for Trumpet and Piano by Robert Suderburg‖ (DMA diss., University of Kentucky, 1991), 4.

254

Ibid.

255

Ibid.

256

Ibid, 5.

257

Ibid, 6.

258


45

Crumb, George Rochberg, Steve Albert, David Berg, Loren Rush, Andrew Imbrie, and

John Eaton.259

Following this stint in Washington, Dempster and Suderburg‘s paths

crossed again when they both moved east, Dempster in residence at the University of

Illinois in the Center for Advanced Study and Suderburg at Brooklyn College.260

Dempster recalls, ―We became fast friends, and I made some trips to see him during that

season and that was when [Chamber Music III: Night Set] first took its shape.‖261

Written in three movements, Chamber Music III: Night Set combines many of

Dempster‘s techniques, while being inspired by Suderburg‘s father. Dempster suggested

the use of a harmon mute, a plunger mute and a hat mute. 262

Continuing, Dempster

explains that prior to the first performance of the piece, he ―rummaged around and found

[his] two (count ‗em, two!) white 1950s dinner jackets—more accurately, yellowed

white—and with special lighting [they] had a lovely performance complete with actors.‖

In addition to these suggestions, Dempster also encouraged Suderburg to rearrange the

movements from the original order, which began with what is now the third movement to

what is currently published.263

Each of the three movements of this work presents a different audible scene that

has subtle links to one another. In order to create a tranquil and transparent atmosphere

in the first movement (―cry, man‖), Suderburg utilizes soft dynamics, a straight mute, and

various minimalistic allusions, which set up a warm palate for the pianist‘s voice to be

added to the texture. Providing a recollection back to the big bands of the 1930s, the

second movement (―its been a long, long time‖) uses the hat mute and the resonance of

the piano to serve as a visual and acoustical symbol of this era. Other extended

techniques in this movement include the buzzed-lip glissando, where Suderburg asks the

performer to imitate the ―style of Vic Dickenson or, more recently, Phil Wilson.‖264

The

259

Miles, 5.

260


261

Ibid.

262


Suderburg‖ in the book, Stuart Dempster at Work, Emailed by Dempster to author, January 27, 2010.

263


264

Suderburg.

46

final movement (―brother Devil‖) includes extensive use of vowel shaping and speaking

by the trombonist and pianist. Towards the end of the movement, Suderburg requires the

trombonist to use a ―wa-wa‖ or harmon mute, while the pianist adds ―ha-ha‖ laughter

written ―in imitative counterpoint.‖265

A cadenza played in the style of one of Duke

Ellington‘s trombonists, ―Tricky Sam‖ Nanton, is soon followed by a recapitulation of

material from the first movement, which serves as bookends to this piece. In one of the

first performances of the piece, one critic‘s review states, ―the music for trombone sought

an expanded role for the player, a role that made performance theatrical and often

humorous.‖266

When planning to perform this work, the soloist must keep in mind the gender of

the pianist. In the outer movements, the pianist is required to sing or speak in a lower

register that could be difficult for many female accompanists. However, this gender

requirement could be avoided with the usage of a male page turner who would sing and

speak the necessary parts instead. Overall, the singing parts are not difficult, but the

spoken ―ha-ha‖ counterpoint that accompanies the trombonist‘s wa-wa mute passage in

the final movement could take some coordination on the part of both parties.

Another consideration concerns the set-up of the piano, mutes, and soloist.

During the second movement, the soloist is required to ―face towards piano to pick up

some echo,‖ while playing into a hat mute.267

The logistics of turning towards the piano

at the end of the first movement as the pianist is finishing, placing the hat mute in a

position that is suitable for the bell and allows the slide room to function does take some

brainstorming. Positioning a hat mute stand to the left of the trombone slide and a music

stand to the right is a set-up that seems to work best, but the performer must have both

stands high enough, so as to avoid the slide being angled into the side of the piano.

In addition to a plunger mute, straight mute, and harmon mute, Chamber Music

III also uses several extended techniques including the buzzed-lip glissando, vowel

shaping and speaking. Suderburg‘s instructions for the buzzed-lip glissando are to ―begin

265


266

Daniel Webster, ―Washington University Concert Has Quality, Wit, Polished Performers,‖ Philadelphia Inquirer, March 7, 1972: 23.

267

Ibid.

47

as a lip-buzz away from the mouthpiece…by the time the top note of the glissando is

reached, the mouth and mouthpiece should be as normal.‖268

Throughout the execution

of this technique, it is imperative for the performer to keep the air moving, especially at

the reemergence of the trombone sound at the end of the glissando. Any loss of air speed

or volume could prove detrimental to the success of this technique. Even though the

vowel shaping section of this piece is not as extensive as Erickson‘s General Speech, the

performer must aim for clarity, especially on the ―ee‖ syllables by bringing the back of

the tongue to the roof of the mouth. The success of the spoken portion of the final

movement depends most upon pacing and coordination with the pianist. It is quite

acceptable for the audience to laugh at this point in the piece. Finally, Suderburg

concludes the work with a ―very tight plunger mute‖ passage.269

Playing softly in the

upper register with a ―very tight plunger mute‖ can prove precarious, so it might be in the

best interest of the performer to play slightly louder to increase the chances of success.

2.6 Erb Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra (1976)

Donald Erb (1927-2008) wrote two commissions for Stuart Dempster, …and then,

toward the end…for trombone and tape (1971) and Concerto for Trombone and

Orchestra (1976), along with a dedication written in 1968 entitled In No Strange Land

for trombone, contrabass, and tape. According to author Richard Peery, Erb believed that

any sound from running water to electronics could be used in music.270

Donald Erb

explains, ―I‘d like my music to have the clarity of classical music, the passion of

Romanticism, and the freedom of jazz.‖271

His Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra

embraces this mantra.

268

Ibid. 269

Ibid.

270

Richard Peery, ―Donald Erb: avant-garde composer, conductor,‖ http://www.cleveland.

com/arts/inde x.ssf/2008/08/donald_erb_avantguard_composer.html (accessed July 1, 2010).

271

Howard Klein, Donald Erb: Drawing Down the Moon, (New York, NY: Recorded Anthology

of American Music Inc, 1994), 3.

48

An Ohio native, Erb‘s first passion was jazz. According to Howard Klein, Erb

grew up playing jazz trumpet in dance bands and joined the Navy during World War II

hoping to be admitted to the Navy‘s School of Music.272

Instead, he was stationed at

Pearl Harbor as a radar operator, which was ―an occupation with a sound environment of

high pitches and bleeps that may have set the stage for his forays into electronic music in

the Sixties.‖273

After studying trumpet and earning a bachelor‘s degree at Kent State

University after the war, Erb moved back to Ohio to study composition with Marcel Dick

at the Cleveland Institute of Music.274

Completing his master‘s degree at The Cleveland

Institute, Erb studied briefly with Nadia Boulanger before finishing a doctorate at Indiana

University under the tutelage of Bernard Heiden.275

He has written ten concertos and

many other solo, symphonic and chamber works that include ―improvisatory and

aleatoric elements that [reflect] his experience as a jazz musician.‖276

Stuart Dempster and Donald Erb first met nearly five years before Concerto was

written. They joined forces for the first time in 1967 as they began to record In No

Strange Land, which was released in 1968 with Bert Turetzky on bass.277

A year later,

Dempster approached Erb about writing a piece for him.278

The first piece that Dempster

commissioned was …and then toward the end…, which he explains ―was composed…by

design, a mini-concerto that would allow [Erb] (and me) to approach a solo with

accompaniment that would ultimately lead to the Concerto.279

Premiered by Stuart Dempster and the Saint Louis Symphony in March of 1976,

Erb‘s Concerto takes many of the extended techniques of Dempster and places them in a

272 Klein, 1.

273

Ibid.

274

Ibid.

275

Ibid.

276

Vivien Schweitzer, ―Donald Erb, Composer of Early Electronic Music, Dies at 81,‖ New York

Times, August 15, 2008, under ―Music,‖ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/arts/music/16erb.

html?_r=3&scp=1&sq= donald%20erb&st=cse&oref=slogin (accessed July 1, 2010).

277


278

Ibid.

279

Ibid.

49

more conventional setting. Following the spirited opening movement and cadenza, the

second movement includes random-noted passages, very wide trills, inward singing, and

the use of a harmon mute. Just as in Berio‘s Sequenza V, inward singing requires the

performer to vocalize their inhalation. Dempster‘s ―double finger tremolo‖ is included at

the end of the movement, which requires the performer to alternate quickly two fingers

on and off the stem of the harmon mute.280

In addition to multiphonics, the trombonist is

also required to alternate playing and singing in various sections of the third movement.

The final movement contains one of the main influences of Erb‘s compositional style, his

ever-present interest in the Australian aboriginal didjeridu. Dempster explains:

Of course, he would ask me to play [the didjeridu] whenever I was around, and it

is not surprising that the didjeridu sound found its way into the Concerto. I

always played vigorously with his kids, and he often would invite some of the

neighborhood kids into his house where we would stage what he called ―gross-

outs.‖ I made all kinds of whacky sounds - anything silly that I could think of -

and sometimes the then Cleveland Orchestra tubist Ron Bishop was invited to join

in the fray (I had known Ron Bishop earlier in San Francisco). All this activity

fed into Erb's ―internal sound files,‖ some of which found their way into the

various pieces that he wrote for trombone. 281

280


281


50

CONCLUSION

After celebrating his seventy-fourth birthday on July 7, 2010, Stuart Dempster‘s

creative musical output fails to slow. In Seattle, Washington he currently performs with

Artkoamia, Eye Music, Pran, Sun Ra Tribute Band, and Sunship.282

Artkoamia is a

group that includes William O. Smith and their painter wives.283

As the name of the

group might suggest, Eye Music aims to ―realize visually interesting scores.‖284

Pran

consists of a trombonist playing Dhrupad vocal styles, which typically are modal,

monophonic lines, as Dempster plays didjeridu in the style of the Indian drone

instrument, the tambura.285

The Sun Ra Tribute Band includes use of costumed

processionals.286

Lastly, Sunship, a five-piece group that is inspired by John Coltrane,

Sun Ra, and Ornette Coleman, produces a cutting-edge ―avant-jazz‖ style reminiscent of

the free jazz of the late 1960s.287

Along with these Seattle-based groups, Dempster

maintains that one of his primary focuses continues to be performing in Deep Listening

Band with Pauline Oliveros and David Gamper.

Not only is Dempster still an active performer, he also has several books in

various stages of completion. These include a book on the history of Deep Listening

Band and another book, Working with Stuart Dempster, which consists of chapters about

the various composers with whom he commissioned or collaborated.288

Other writing

projects include compiling journal notes from his tours with Merce Cunningham Dance

Company and finishing a collection of scores of his various solo compositions.

282


283

Ibid.

284

Ibid.

285

Ibid.

286

Ibid.

287

Ibid.

288

Ibid.

51

Countless students, composers, colleagues, and friends have enjoyed the creativity

and musical prowess of Stuart Dempster over the past fifty years. Almost single-

handedly responsible for placing the trombone at the forefront of the virtuosic music of

the avant-garde, Dempster encouraged many composers to write for an instrument that

might not have even been given a second look. Published in 1979, his book, The Modern

Trombone, is still a leading pedagogical text for trombonists and composers interested in

extended techniques for the instrument. When asked what he desired his legacy to be,

Dempster replied:

I would propose that I may have proffered a useful definition of the trombone

palette, redirected and deepened the advance of trombone literature, and assisted

both students and professionals in recognizing possibilities and realizing

dreams.289

At the 2010 International Trombone Festival, Stuart Dempster was awarded the ITA‘s

Lifetime Achievement Award. He accepted this award via SKYPE, but will be given this

award in person at the 2011 International Trombone Festival in Nashville, Tennessee.

289

Ibid.

52

APPENDIX A

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH STUART

DEMPSTER

53

Note: Text in italics belongs to the interviewer (McIlwain), while the text without italics

belongs to Stuart Dempster. Entire interview with Stuart Dempster occurred via e-mail

beginning on January 14, 2010. All correspondence and statements are copied as

received.

MCILWAIN: From my research I have not been able to find a complete listing of your

commissions, collaborations, and pieces dedicated to you. If possible, could you provide

this list? Do you value any of these works more than the others? If so, why?

DEMPSTER: Yes, I have an old but surprisingly up to date list. Just now I have added

one relatively new piece Anterior View..., by Richard Karpen (the title is really long).

Interestingly, his piece will likely be going through a revision during 2010.

Not surprisingly, I tend to value commissions more than dedications simply

because I have been way more deeply involved in their composition. Some commissions

started out as a dedicated piece and then became commissions because of my (and the

composers) increased interest in further involvement.

I have attached my old list which runs from ca. 1966-1985 but with the added

Karpen piece. Karpen's piece is from 2003 and, by the way, is recorded on Centaur.

MCILWAIN: In your interview with Abbie Conant you talked briefly about your youth

and first exposures to the trombone. Did you have any particular musicians that you

listened to or aspired to that had an impact on your playing? What did you mean by

"music was my salvation"?

DEMPSTER: Even though I was primarily trained as a classical musician I had a lot of

early exposure to jazz while in high school. I mostly listened to specific San Francisco

Bay Area jazz trombonists such as Kid Ory (yes, he had an extensive "second career" in

the Bay Area) and Turk Murphy and also various traveling bands (live and on recordings)

such as Tommy Dorsey, Count Basie, Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Kenton, Frank Rosolino,

Spike Jones, and many others. There was not the availability of classical trombonists to

listen to like there is now and, frankly, I was (and still am) more interested in "music"

rather than "trombonists".

54

As a very young child I listened to a lot of opera including Gilbert &Sullivan, and

all kinds of classical symphonies. In college I listened to everything I could get a hold of.

World music had not yet become easily available, but by the time I was in grad school

(1960-63) I was listening to a fair amount of that as well. And a great deal of new music

of all kinds. Also humor such as Anna Russell, Victor Borge, Hoffnung festivals, and

others--such as PDQ Bach that came along later.

Referring to Abbie Conant's interview of me, the "Music was my salvation"

comment goes to my not doing all that well in other subjects (in high school and

undergrad college in particular).

MCILWAIN: Do you feel that learning avant-garde music is valuable and important to

the aspiring trombonist? If so, why?

DEMPSTER: I deal with this question in my book, but maybe not as completely

or as much as I should have. The book, of course, is for both composers and trombonists

so I likely tempered getting into too much trombone player-specific considerations.

There is an old adage, "Don't play those funny sounds; they will wreck your traditional

playing." There is some truth to this--but only for the short-term.

Taking simply multiphonics and vowels as examples, delving into either of these

can temporarily cause the player to go a little blank about issues concerning the

traditional embouchure. Multiphonics require a type of multitasking that trombonists are

neither used to nor schooled in. Certainly not in the way that, say, pianists, organists,

harpists and many other instruments take for granted. This is likely to change in this

current era of all kinds of day-to-day multitasking that has become somewhat of a

competition on the part of some. In any case, learning multiphonics well assists one in

learning embouchure stability as well as becoming more sensitive to intonation issues.

In examining the value of learning different vowels it should be noted that

sensitivity to the traditional ―bel-canto‖ embouchure is heightened. A player working on

vowels will eventually notice if he or she drifts--even a little bit--from the traditional

embouchure. Thus it is possible to make embouchure adjustments "on the fly" as it were

and, thereby, accomplish more during a practice session.

55

Further, there is the pleasure of learning these sounds and techniques simply for

their own sake and appreciating the diversity and differences as they begin to define

"idioms" of the trombone. Generally, the ―idioms‖ or "sound palette" of the trombone is

minimally exploited or used by composers except in the context of jazz--and by

aboriginal Australians on the didjeridu--and new techniques are a way of becoming

acquainted with the larger trombone spectrum.

I am reminded of my favorite Abbie Conant quote, "One does not master the

trombone [or any instrument] but, rather, develops a relationship with it."

MCILWAIN: Can you describe the commissioning and collaborating process you have

experienced working with these various composers?

DEMPSTER: This is a huge question, so we can just see where it goes.

Berio: Be sure and see the article "Why: How About Who, Where, What,

When?: The Development of Sequenza V" by Buddy Baker in ITA Journal (Vol. 22, No.

2, Spring 1994, pp. 30-33, author listed incorrectly in table of contents). As it turns out, I

have put it in attachment below. A very important article with interviews of both me and

Vinko Globokar. Further than that, I had only three or four days to learn Section A of

Sequenza V and had to fly to Boulder, Colorado in order to work with him while he

completed it. He graciously accepted some of my suggestions. I have been told that

there is something floating around on the internet of my first performance. I have spared

myself trying to find or listen to that because I know it sounds every bit as though I only

had a few days on it. I worked with him in many contexts, but not always in the

compositional process of Sequenza V but rather in my performance of it. A bit of nuance

here; another bit there. Below in attachment is the interview: If you use any of the

Buddy Baker article in my Appendix III, you would need to obtain permission from ITA

Journal editor (as I did for use in my "...At Work" book).

Erickson: There are two commissions the first being Ricercar (or Ricercare) á 5

and the second being General Speech. Both the scores of Ricercar á 5 and General

Speech (the versions that I edited) are published by Smith Publications. Both are loaded

with notes about performance. General Speech, of course, figures prominently in my

56

book but there are plenty of notes in my book about Ricercar as well. First step: You

need to track down the chapter "Working with Stuart Dempster" in Robert Erickson's

"Hearing Things". You need to know that "Hearing Things" is the second part of a book

by John MacKay called Music of Many Means: Sketches and Essays on the Music of

Robert Erickson. Hopefully your library will be willing to acquire it, or maybe you can

get it through interlibrary loan. (Saw it used on a Barnes and Noble site for ca. $38 - lists

at $75) It is an incredibly important book. After you have managed to do all that, you

need to read the relevant portions of my book again. Meanwhile, here is an excerpt from

my book: My original "Working with Robert Erickson" first appeared in

Poets.Painters.Composers. No. 5 (1990) pp. 64-65. ©1990 Poets.Painters.Composers.,

Carl Diltz and Joseph Keppler, editors, 10254 - 35th Ave. SW, Seattle, WA 98146.

Used by permission. If you use part of the above excerpt you would need to get

permission from Joseph Keppler (address above). I should be able to assist in that if

necessary.

Suderburg: The Presser publication lists the title as Chamber Music III (Night

Set) etc. In recent years (and I believe also the recording) may list it as Night Set

(Chamber Music III) etc. I first met Robert Suderberg in Philadelphia in ca. 1966 or 67,

and then we were colleagues at the University of Washington beginning in 1968 until he

moved east during the same autumn (1971) that I was in residence at the University of

Illinois in the Center for Advanced Study during 1971-72. He was teaching at Brooklyn

College. We became fast friends, and I made some trips to see him during that season

and that was when the piece first took its shape. He was surprisingly agreeable to my

suggestion that the movements or parts of movements be changed to the current

published order. The original order started with what now begins movement three. We

worked closely, and toward the end when we were approaching the premiere, he

suggested that we have a "cabaret" setting on stage. We couldn't do it right away, but I

rummaged around and found my two (count 'em, two!) white 1950s dinner jackets--more

accurately, yellowed white--and with special lighting we had a lovely performance

complete with actors later on at North Carolina School of the Arts where he was

Chancellor for a time. Attached is an excerpt from my book.

57

I am staying with these three composers (four pieces including the two Erickson

items). You will note that I likely worked the least with Berio, the most--far and away

the most--with Erickson, and working with Suderburg was somewhere in the middle.

This whole business of commissioning and how I worked (and work) with

composers would take up a book, which is precisely the book I am supposedly writing.

So this will be as far as I go with this question, at least for now.

MCILWAIN: I know from your writings and previous interviews that the didjeridu has

been a huge influence in your composing, performing, and your collaborations with other

composers. In your book, you discussed your time spent in Australia. Could you discuss

this experience and your relationship with the didjeridu?

DEMPSTER: The didjeridu discovered me at the behest of Robert Erickson after he had

completed Ricercar á 5 but before General Speech. He had a didjeridu which he loaned

to me. It was 1967 and after he located a bit of tape--about 45 seconds-worth--that I

much later discovered had come from Elkin's LP "Tribal Music of Australia". I figured

out what circular breathing must be and tried doing it beginning with a straw and glass of

water as well as the didjeridu itself. I was lucky because it came fairly quickly. (I don't

remember how quickly but in my teaching experience I find that it takes a beginning

student anywhere from half an hour to half a year!) By the time I received the Fulbright

in 1973 I had been playing for about five or six years. This enabled me to proceed very

quickly once I managed to make contact with aboriginal Australian performers. They

were very intrigued by the fact that I (1) cared about the didjeridu, and (2) already knew a

fair amount about how to play it. I advanced quickly in spite of my all too brief time in

the bush.

How I "relate" to it is mixed. When I teach I used my tribal didjeridus that I

acquired in 1973. When I perform in concerts I generally use sewer pipe (the North

American indigenous model!) didjeridus because they are an abstraction and, for me at

least, that allows me to perform my acculturated playing with less guilt (real or

imagined). It is my way of honoring the aboriginals and respecting their traditions. The

aboriginal that I have worked with more recently, William Barton, seemed to understand

58

and appreciate my thinking on the matter. I played didjeridu for at least a decade before I

bothered to consider what pitches I was using. The default in western music is pitch, and

so much else seems secondary. In aboriginal Australian music it is timbre that is the

default and pitch is decidedly secondary.

Now that I am sometimes using didjeridu with groups, I travel with pipe that

allows me to have any (western) pitch I want. Of course, any contact westerners have

with aboriginals influences how they think about their own music, and the change is

phenomenal and can be disheartening. At the present time we are deep in the throes of

crossover where every kind of music seems to influence (and often trash) every other

kind of music. In more recent decades I was quite taken by the aboriginal group Yothu

Yindi, where they could do their rock music thing and in the middle of it switch to

traditional dance and music complete with body paint and so on and keep a distinct

difference between styles. Look them up on Google and YouTube - there is quite a

selection of Yothu Yindi material available.

In the attached Erickson "Excerpt" I state that I started playing didjeridu in 1968.

It is more likely that I started a little earlier, in 1967, because I seem to remember already

playing it by the time we were working on General Speech together. A minor point, I

guess, but the Excerpt is part of a published article so eventually I would need to put

some kind of a footnote (like the above) to account for the date change.

MCILWAIN: From the first time I heard about Robert Erickson's General Speech, I have

been very intrigued. What led you and/or Robert Erickson to choose General Douglas

MacArthur as the subject of General Speech? Can you tell me about the process that you

and Erickson went through to provide such detail in the pronunciations? I know you

wrote a little bit about this in your book, but would love any additional info you have. I

find this piece very interesting and unique.

DEMPSTER: Erickson played me some MacArthur recordings and both of us were taken

with the amazing vocal style. He (MacArthur) always conveyed this image of being

about nine feet tall. A tremendous figure, he was revered in some parts of the world (and

59

reviled in others, of course) but it presented us with a wonderful opportunity to create a

new piece. The attached excerpt (above) will give you some answers as to the process.

Yes, it certainly is a unique piece, the ultimate trombone piece. Can you imagine

it being played on any other instrument? Piano? Harp? Even Tuba? I think not. On the

other hand, most trombone music is piano music masquerading as trombone music. It is

all a matter of approaching the use of the complete acoustic palette of the trombone and

that is what makes General Speech so special. But I am repeating myself w/r/t material

that is in The Modern Trombone...

MCILWAIN: I have read a little bit about your healing practices in one of your more

recent interviews found in an ITA Journal. Can you tell me a little bit more about your

practices with healing (with sound, music, didjeridu, trombone, etc.)?

DEMPSTER: First I have heard of DRT but I guess that is what I do. DRT sounds so

annoyingly academic (I speak as a recovering academic!). My approach to all my

contact/dealings/performances, etc in music is to add a strong playful element in it. My

motto is, "Put the 'play' back into playing music." And although I am plenty serious

about my didjeridu playing as healing I have a humorous element close at hand. I like the

edge of seriousness and humor when one can't tell which is happening. And it fits

because didjeridu and humor are both equally healing. I have a piece or, more accurately,

a structure titled Sound Massage Parlor dating from 1986. The attachment below should

be helpful, especially as the link from my ancient website no longer works.

MCILWAIN: Do the speaking parts in the 3rd movement of Suderburg's Chamber

Music III: Night Set have any special meaning or background? "ka-ta-ka-ta-ti-ka-ta-too-

--tee-ah-tee-ah---thuk-oo--thuk-ee---thuk-oo..."

DEMPSTER: Well, only the last one does, but it is an "in" joke (and a dirty one at that)

just between me and Suderburg. It connects with the piano music that is going on at the

same time. A nice puzzle to keep musicologists busy. Maybe I will tell people sometime

but it is nice just as it is, at least for now.

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MCILWAIN: I think you would agree that much of your music is considered avant-

garde. Do you have any memorable performances of any of the premieres of some of

these commissions/collaborations? What reaction have you received from the audience?

Has this reaction changed over the years?

DEMPSTER: Certainly all my theater pieces are considered avant-garde, but I don't think

that would apply any more to, for instance, Imbrie's Three Sketches and Suderburg's

Night Set. Things do change eventually. The early performances of Sequenza V would

occasionally elicit outrage by a few trombonists complaining about the piece being too

hard and why (no pun intended) I commissioned it. My answer always has been, "The

world is big enough; you should commission your own pieces that you would like."

Interestingly, I haven't had to deal much with that question for 40 or more years, and that

serves to demonstrate just how much things have changed.

I am loaded with memorable performances, which begs the question as to how

can they be "memorable". I freely volunteer that some are more memorable than others.

I already mentioned earlier about Night Set performances, especially the mildly "staged"

ones at NCSA. And perhaps you can only imagine performances of General Speech

because theatrical considerations are so out of hand and, yes, I know the "fade away" at

the end references "Old soldiers never die; they just fade away." And that belongs to a

speech given to congress near the time of the West Point speech that General Speech

parodies. The reaction is huge every time.

Sequenza V is more difficult to assess, although I generally get good reactions to

it. The difficulty for me is getting the humor to come out, especially in "B" section. But

then, "B" section was not really written for me (although I didn't know that at the time).

It is as though there are two different pieces cobbled together into one. Sometimes I can

really bring humor out - even in "B" section - but it is not that often. I have added

something - relatively recently - that I believe helps prepare for "B" section. And that is

to sit down emphatically on the stool as I play the pedal Bb to create an image of it being

a whoopee-cushion. My only reservation in doing that is that audio by itself (without the

visual), such as on a recording, may not convey that particular bit of humor. On the other

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hand, the more I have it seem like a whoopee-cushion the more it seems the contrasting

"B" section fits. It is probably all my imagination...

The most memorable Sequenza V performance likely happened at the BBC where

Berio had organized as many "original" Sequenze performers as he could. Besides

having many premiere players on hand, it was memorable simply because I actually

played it well. I was particularly pleased because Decca was supposed to record all of us

"originals" for a special recording right after this event. Of course, that didn't happen.

There is finally a recording out of me playing it - on the Mode 4 CD collected set

released a few years back. I can date the BBC performance if you need it, but I am

guessing early 1980s.

MCILWAIN: In addition to the innovations you have made through your commissions,

performances, healing practices, and composing, it seems from my research that there is

not a lot of information available on your teaching philosophy, experience, and methods.

With thirty years at University of Washington and professor emeritus status, I know that

teaching has been a huge part of your life. Can you discuss the role teaching and

academia has played in your life? What is your teaching philosophy? What are some

famous "Dempster Methods" that your students talk about years later? How has your

teaching influenced your own performance?

DEMPSTER: What follows is a random selection of thoughts that pop through my head,

a sort of stream of consciousness approach, in no particular order. That said, I will also

include an attachment or two that may be of interest.

a. My motto: Put the play back into playing music (or trombone or any other

instrument).

b. When a student was not playing mindfully, I often would say, "You are playing

as though you wish you were doing something else, like sailing." Or "You are playing as

though you wish you were sailing." Be focused and attentive to all that is going on.

c. Practice "from" your best, not "to" your best. This is the most efficient way to

develop the necessary and/or desired body memory.

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d. One needs to play something correctly at least 70% to 80% of the time in order

for body memory to kick in - kick in your favor, that is. Practicing something trying to

get something correctly, and finally getting it means that one will need to reiterate that

correct version to counteract all those other times and even further to get into the 70+%

range. (And follow this up with next item on "backward practice".)

e. When I suggest that one engage in "backward practice" I am referring to

selecting a small passage (a "cell" let's say) and make it sound the way you want it. Then

begin to build the context by adding one note in front of that cell playing it correctly three

times, and then add another note, and another, and then another, and so on, playing this

ever expanding cell correctly three times each. If there is a hiccup at some point back off

and move one step back (that is, shorten the practice cell by one upfront note.

The situation is this: if there is a mistake happening regularly at a specific point,

and you try to fix it by going over just that point, or cell, it may get better. But as soon as

one puts it in context the mistake often reappears. Doing this "backward practice" builds

the lead up to, or context for, the recalcitrant cell or missed note. it is often quite tedious,

but it works. What one learns from this exercise is that the "mistake" one is trying to fix

at one point is usually caused by some hiccup a few or several notes earlier. The

backwards practice helps locate that hiccup while at the same time reiterating the cell

many times correctly .

f. Reading ahead, actually hearing ahead or both, is critical. Along with that it is

necessary to develop an "eye flow" that will keep that "ahead" action going. A big hurdle

to overcome is allowing for poorly proportioned notation that short-circuits the desirable

even eye flow. For instance, when making parts, if you have a half note of sound be sure

and leave a half note of (visual) space. Learning how to cope with poorly proportioned

notation will help your sight reading immensely.

g. Play "to" the audience; it is even possible to play to an imaginary person (a

good friend, your mother, or someone else) that you would imagine sitting in one of the

audience seats. You will likely be surprised at the differences that take place depending

upon the person placed in the chair.

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h. Treat the audience well; indeed, love the audience. An audience wants you to

succeed so join in the fun. I have never played for an audience that wanted me to fail.

An audience is your friend, therefore welcome the audience into your performance.

i. You are your own best teacher. A teacher from whom you take lessons can help

only so far. Once you have learned to play something the way you know it should go it is

up to you to reiterate that something and develop the necessary percentages to train body

memory.

j. I (and I nag my students to also do this) place an ever-changing list of up to five

things to concentrate on while practicing. A typical list might be gut (breath and

diaphragm), jaw, reading ahead, posture (Alexander work, for instance). Four or five is

about the limit; more than that is not going to be beneficial. However, it is important to

reevaluate the list regularly so that the five things on the list are truly the priorities. It is

best when it is on the music stand right along with whatever is being practiced. Or on the

stand when improvising.

k. When it comes to performing a recital or solo piece forget you ever had a

lesson. Simply Play (to and for the audience).

l. The two week rule is that, at a recital, you are likely to play approximately how

you played two weeks ago (assuming you continue practicing intelligently past that two

week time). So you need to be absolutely ready and rehearsed two weeks ahead of time.

In a concerto setting all kinds of weirdness sets in so it is all the more important to be

totally ready two weeks ahead. Memorization would need to be in order considerably

earlier - maybe two months.

m. When I detect a student being a bit lazy or in a rut I often would say, "Shall we

generate a crisis?" I would then send them to the recital coordinator and have them set a

date a reasonable length of time out depending upon how close they might be or could be.

Even for the less experienced students, a half recital date a few weeks or months ahead

can generate quite a stir up of practice habits.

n. One of my more fun activities was the use of a big rubber hammer. It still is. I

call it, ―Dempster's get-a-bigger-hammer hammer.‖ Always a source of amusement,

when students were lazy in their gut I would get the DGABHH out and hold it on their

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gut. It got their attention quicker and more appropriately than anything I have ever heard

of let alone used.

o. Comfort Zone: The CZ attempts to diagram what needs to happen for a

trombonist to feel secure, or comfortable, in performance and practice. A diagram of this

is attached immediately below (sorry I can't do it horizontally but it will print out

correctly). It outlines the "Normal Playing Zone" that I now realize would be better

expressed as "Typical Playing Zone - and "Comfort Zone" - that I similarly realize would

be better expressed as "Optimum Playing Zone". The idea is to demonstrate that having

what seems like too much air and/or breathing more often and/or keeping relatively full

of air can work to the performer's advantage. A sidebar to this, however, is the

importance of learning how to play successfully in the less air area (airea?), that is, when

their is not the advantage of having a reserve of air at a given moment.

p. Ever since I was around 40 I became interested in playing trombone and aging.

Immediately below I am attaching a master class flyer/outline/notes (from April 2006)

that deals a little with trombone and aging, and about my trying to reinvent my playing.

Now that I am deep into the "aging" period myself I, understandably, am finding out

much more than I wanted to know. I have occasionally worked with a personal trainer

attempting to find appropriate exercises to assist in playing longevity. Results are

decidedly mixed...

Make of all this answer what you will. No doubt I will think of more items and,

certainly, as my former students comment on my teaching, that should further jog my

thinking and memories.

MCILWAIN: I know you went to school with some powerhouse composers: Oliveros,

Riley, and Rush. Can you talk a little bit about your own compositions?

DEMPSTER: My own compositions are, for the most part, for me to perform, with some

exceptions. It is only recently that I have begun to make scores because up until now I

didn't need them and nobody else cared. Now people are asking me about these scores -

mostly one-pagers - and I am assembling a little booklet of them. These scores tend to be

text rather than classical notation. Sometimes they provide information about "thought

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processes" that go into the performance. Other times they suggest things to do, or to

contemplate, as point(s) of departure. Most of my scores are meditative. There is some

mention of score material in the notes for certain of my CDs, such as Underground

Overlays from the Cistern Chapel. These are "led" group improvisations that had its start

with a piece titled "Aix en Providence" (performed first in Aix en Provence) by four

trombonists around the space with me in the middle.

I like to think that my music is restorative, that is, healing and therapeutic. There

are some cultures - I would say most non-western cultures - where playing music

assumes that there is a healing or restorative component. Western music is decidedly

mixed in this regard. In my music I like to think of it being healing and also humorous,

and it is the best when one can't always be sure which is being received. Also, my work

is at its best when it is equally appealing and appalling (appealing to some and appalling

to others); it is most noticeable with the theater pieces. These are special fun and playful

balances but they are not all that easy to do. Well, it is relatively easy for me because

that is what I do. I guess one could say that i live for those balances.

MCILWAIN: From what I understand, Ernst Krenek was one of Robert Erickson's

composition teachers. How did you come to work with Krenek (before or after you met

with Erickson)? How involved were you with his 5 Pieces (specifically the addition of

some of the techniques not included in the Berio, Suderburg, or Erickson-hitting

mouthpiece, removal of valve slide, rolling the bell on piano strings, etc.)?

DEMPSTER: Erickson introduced me to Ernst Krenek during one of the many times I

was at UCSD to play a concert. I sent him a tape of my sounds - these tapes I sent

composers turned out to be prototypes of what eventually became the recorded examples

that accompanies The Modern Trombone. I then visited and played for him a couple of

times at his house in Palm Springs; by then he had agreed to compose a piece for me. I

sent some version of this prototype tape to several of "my" composers including Berio

and Erickson. During the course of the various commissions being realized the demo

sounds became better organized, and in the course of writing The Modern Trombone the

various chapters suggested themselves. Krenek heard me play most if not all of these

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sounds live. He became quite intrigued with using many of my sounds mixed with the

piano. This was quite different than Berio or Erickson or even Suderburg where they

used less of the raw materials but developed them in their own special ways during the

course of their pieces.

As a sidebar, Andrew Imbrie, who composed Three Sketches for me, used new

techniques very sparingly and, in fact, he apologized to me for not using more. I

answered him by saying that I wanted him to be himself and to compose what he really

wanted to compose and not feel he had to use new sounds. There is one part in Imbrie's

piece that has always intrigued me, and that is the (mostly whole-step) multiphonics in

middle of bass clef staff. He wanted trills in that register and I suggested certain

multiphonics in place of them. Trills in that register are garbage - granted, that "garbage"

would have a certain appeal - but those multiphonics do virtually the same thing as the

trill does an octave higher. At least it is a good enough illusion to make for a much

cleaner result than an actual trill would do in that lower register. Those multiphonics are

actually great sounds in their own right, but serve the function of the trill quite well.

Imbrie was quite happy with the result.

MCILWAIN: I just listened to Donald Erb's Concerto for the first time. In addition, I

found an article by New World Records online talking about some of Erb's compositions:

"In 1971, Indiana University awarded Erb its Distinguished Alumnus Award; that

same year an important influence on Erb appeared in the form of Stuart Dempster, the

trombonist and composer who had staked out a singular niche for himself as a performer

and improviser, and was investigating new sounds and techniques, especially with non-

Western instruments. Dempster's Fulbright scholarship to Australia put him in contact

with the didjeridu, which he incorporated into his own compositions in the mid-Seventies.

Dempster's musical odyssey from classically trained orchestral musician to freelance

pioneer helped to crystallize Erb's own style. In 1976 Erb worked again with Dempster,

this time on the Trombone Concerto, which received its premiere with Dempster and the

Saint Louis Symphony."

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Can you discuss this "musical odyssey" that you underwent and how it might of "helped

to crystallize Erb's own style"? In addition to the Concerto, I understand that you also

commissioned "and then toward the end".

DEMPSTER: I first appeared in Donald Erb's life in 1967 (10 March, to be specific) - not

1971 as the paragraph from the NWR article would have one believe. I, along with Bert

Turetzky on bass, joined him in 1968 to record In No Strange Land for Nonesuch that

became a mild hit upon its release. That was the first professional activity with Don Erb.

In 1969 I had come to know enough of Erb's music that I decided I should commission

him. (I likely sent him a tape of my sounds sometime later in 1967; I might be able to

figure that out by going through the letter file I have.) 1971 was, however, the marker for

when "...and then, toward the end..." was composed that was, by design, a mini-concerto

that would allow him (and me) to approach a solo with accompaniment that would

ultimately lead to the Concerto. By this time I had visited him many times, and I played

for him and he questioned me a lot about trombone possibilities. While it was not as

intense of working together as, say, General Speech was with Erickson, we nevertheless

tried out lots of different possibilities and spent time simply "hanging out" or "hunkering"

as he called it. He was an amazingly committed people-person and was fully present.

Don had a long-standing interest in the didjeridu and, indeed, had one at the house

from fairly early on. Of course, he would ask me to play it whenever I was around, and it

is not surprising that the didjeridu sound found its way into the Concerto. I always

played vigorously with his kids, and he often would invite some of the neighborhood kids

into his house to where we would stage what he called "gross-outs". I made all kinds of

whacky sounds - anything silly that I could think of - and sometimes the then Cleveland

Orchestra tubist Ron Bishop was invited to join in the fray (I had known Ron Bishop

earlier in San Francisco). All this activity fed into Erb's "internal sound files" some of

which found their way into the various pieces that he wrote for trombone. Erb was a

huge fan of Robert Erickson, too, and he always wanted me, whenever I could, to

perform General Speech at the Cleveland Institute - or wherever else he might be

teaching.

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The odyssey that you were really asking about is murkier. I was hanging out with

composers as an undergraduate but never thought I would be a composer myself. Even

later on, when I had begun to do some composing, I still saw myself as more of a

performer. Stewing - yes, I know but it is spelled that "other" way - over the dearth of

quality trombone literature I realized I was in a unique position to do a little something

about it. I had met various composers in the early sixties finally doing a recital in March

1966 that featured commissions by Berio, Erickson (R á 5), and Oliveros. I had then

planned to go to Japan on a Fulbright to study the sho. Well, that didn't happen so I

hurriedly organized a tour of the US and Europe that went on for months. Not much

money - in fact, very nearly broke us - and not even all that many gigs, but it changed my

life. I was playing these new pieces and meeting composers and performers right and

left; it was an amazing time (1966-67). I had also benefited from some fantastic

performances in the Bay Area that were mostly at the San Francisco Tape Music Center

(SFTMC) in 1964 - also other years, too. See new book out by the same name (SFTMC)

by David Bernstein; I am interviewed extensively in it.

During 1967-68 I was a Creative Associate under Lukas Foss at the State

University of New York at Buffalo (SUNYAB). And that led to the teaching job at

University of Washington starting in Autumn 1968. The rest you mostly already know,

but the Fulbright I Did get to Australia in 1973 led me in yet other directions. I had

already returned to composition much more directly in 1971-72 when I was a Fellow in

the Center for Advanced Study at University of Illinois (Urbana). The huge piece "Ten

Grand Hosery" that came about during that concert season is well documented in

Appendix II of The Modern Trombone. By this time I was finding more and more ways

to compose for myself as performer but I was still keeping up recitals that included

various commission pieces. As time went on I engaged less and less in commissioning

and more and more in my own compositions while at the same time teaching at the

University and maintaining an extensive touring schedule. Just when "the moment"

happened when I concentrated on new music is elusive. Rather, I more likely simply

"slithered" into a new music concentration, all the while wanting to do so without losing

interest in symphonic playing (and teaching). Now, some 45 years later, I am doing

mostly improvisation and have let symphonic playing take a back seat to it all.

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MCILWAIN: Can you expand on the idea of group improvisation in your albums like

Deep Listening and Underground Overlays from the Cistern Chapel?

DEMPSTER: The two albums you mention are quite different in their improvisational

structure. The Deep Listening album was totally free improv in that we didn't have any

discussion ahead of time as to what we would do. I did, however, want to know what

would be a useful didjeridu length that would work with Pauline Oliveros' just tuned

accordion. We decided on "E" for what is the Lear track, and a"C" for what is the Ione

track. (We actually recorded the Ione track first.) Other than those decisions nothing

else was discussed. We simply listened and played. The Cistern Chapel album is much

different in that it was "'led" or "conducted" my me. I was improvising/composing in real

time, in the sense that improvisation is real-time composition. I had no score for me - but

I provided a "score" for the other performers through my playing (and "conducting"). I

had three basic instructions: a) when I pointed to any one of the performers they were to

play back what they heard me playing and keep that material going until I came around

again to give them something different; 2) if I raised my horn up high, that was to

designate a solo either for me, or if I pointed to someone else while raising the horn, it

would be for that other person, and 3) if I faced down, that would serve as a cutoff either

to a specific person or to several if I faced in succession more than one of them.

MCILWAIN: Did anything thing lead you from being "just another trombone player" to

seeking out collaborations and commissions that lay the groundwork for what is "the

modern trombone"?

DEMPSTER: I covered a lot of this under [one of the previous questions]. It seems

mostly that I would often goof around in rehearsals and make funny noises imitating

sounds I heard on Spike Jones recordings and, later on, Hoffnung Festival recordings.

The three composers mentioned above (Berio, Erickson, Oliveros) were extremely

interested in my funny sounds which spurred me on to more investigations which in turn

piqued their interest even further. By the early to mid-60s I had started playing various

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instruments such as garden hoses and conch shells. Erickson prodded me into learning

the didjeridu, and that happened in 1967. He had a decent wooden one but he was

making all kinds of instruments out of many types of materials so I was inspired to make

didjeridus out of sewer pipe. I am not sure when I made the sewer pipe didjeridu that I

used on the "Abbey" recording but I am sure it was pretty early on - probably 1968 or so.

I didn't want to ask Erickson if I could borrow his, especially as he had offered to arrange

for a didjeridu to be sent to me from the same source from where he had acquired his. It

is likely that I was quite impatient about wanting my own instrument and that no-doubt

further inspired my making of a sewer pipe didjeridu.

Earlier than all of the above, however, was my visits to San Francisco State's

Composers Workshop during my undergraduate years (1954-58). I often played works of

the composers that were taking the class, and I am sure this had a significant influence

upon my budding interest in new music. One of the composers, Joseph F. Weber, over at

his house would play many of his recordings of all kinds of new music that I had not

heard before, Berg, Schoenberg, Stravinsky, and Webern being the most prominent.

Other performers at SF State introduced me to various other recordings that were

particularly interesting to performers, such as Richard Strauss tone poems and also the

developing quantity of available jazz recordings. This was all quite new to me. I

performed whatever there was to perform and even ran the noon concert series for a time

during which I would ask the composition students to perform their works whenever

possible. My first compositions, such as they are, came from 1957 and 1958. After my

time in the service (1958-60) I came back to SF State to complete a composition masters

degree. That, along with all the performing I was doing, helped lead me down the new

music path.

MCILWAIN: I have read that you sought out an acting and movement coach in

preparation for Oliveros "Theater Piece for Trombone." What led you to seek out this

instruction and how did it change your approaches to your music?

DEMPSTER: Actually, I did not seek out an acting and movement coach; I didn't know

enough to realize that I should. It worked out that Elizabeth Harris, who designed and

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built the sound sculptures for "In the Garden" - Theater Piece for Trombone and Tape (In

the Garden was the original title but we didn't use it because of a duplication - long story

and not pertinent here). She has a dance background and in the course of working on the

piece she basically designed a sort of choreography for me to execute the piece. I was

extremely interested in the suggestions she made, and I then began to consider all kinds

of aspects of performance in light of that experience.

By the time the Erickson General Speech came along I was ready for more

assistance with the theatrical aspect of the piece, and both Erickson and his wife Lenore

Erik-Alt were incredibly helpful. Erickson helped me with a number of other pieces as

well; he had a great sense of theater and I learned much about performance attitude,

demeanor, dress, and staging no matter what style of music I was doing. All of this made

me more conscious and sensitive to the audience and how they best can be served.

I should mention Chungliang Al Huang, a Tai Ji master (he wrote "Embrace

Tiger, Return to Mountain") whom I met at University of Illinois in 1971-72 when we

were both Fellows in the Center for Advanced Study there. He also was extensively

trained in western dance traditions so he had an incredibly broad-based knowledge of

movement and theater. He had a lot to do with the success of Ten Grand Hosery (see

Appendix II in The Modern Trombone) and taught me all sorts of ways to move and think

about how I would present my work. I am forever indebted to Chungliang and the others

for making me sensitive to these ostensibly non-musical issues.

MCILWAIN: Can you tell me a little bit about your current activities? (writing,

performing, etc.)

DEMPSTER: My current activities include playing in Seattle with groups Artkoamia,

Eye Music, Pran, Sun Ra Tribute Band, and Sunship. In order, they are William O.

Smith with our painter wives; a group specializing in realizing visually interesting scores;

a trombonist playing Dhrupad vocal styles while I play didjeridu in the style of a

tambura; Sun Ra music complete with costumed processionals; and finally a John

Coltrane, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman inspired five piece group (see

http://www.myspace.com/sunshipmusic for all of Sunship's many influences). Also,

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there are several individuals in Seattle that I either perform or record with on a more

irregular basis.

A primary focus is performing in Deep Listening Band, with Pauline Oliveros.

and David Gamper (Panaiotis was a founding member until Gamper replaced him). In

2008 we celebrated with the release of a high end double LP: Then and Now Now and

Then: 20 Years of Deep Listening Band. We still tour some, but we are not as busy as in

those earlier years - maybe one or two big events each year. Besides this I continue to do

clinics, master classes, and artist in residencies. Sometimes I am able to perform with my

painter wife such as our performance nearly a year ago at San Francisco's Meridian

Gallery or with Deep Listening Convergence in 2007 in High Falls, New York or

whatever we can manage to do locally (Seattle).

And then there is the writing. I have a few books in various stages of completion.

The half-done ones are a history of Deep Listening Band and Working with Stuart

Dempster (a working title, so to speak) that has chapters on the various composers I

commissioned, and/or performed with, and what the process was like. There are other

writing projects, such as organizing my journal notes from my tours with Merce

Cunningham Dance Company. There is the CD-ROM or DVD version of The Modern

Trombone that I hope can come to fruition someday. And then there is a collection of

scores of my various solo compositions that needs to be finished - and whatever else I am

not remembering.

MCILWAIN: What do you want your legacy to be? Do you want to be remembered for

your performance, commissions, pedagogy, etc.?

DEMPSTER: I have not preoccupied myself thinking about a legacy because a

significant portion of it has already happened, such as the commissioned pieces being

accepted and performed by many trombonists. Some of these pieces, considered so

difficult at the time, have even found their way into undergraduate recitals, a far cry from

a time long ago when a few professional trombonists would all but accost me

complaining about why was I commissioning these difficult pieces, and so on. It has

been gratifying to see the acceptance grab hold over the decades. That, and satisfaction

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of having helped several students realize their goals and reach levels that occasionally

were not recognized by them as being within their reach. To sum up my legacy, if that is

what it is, I would propose that I may have (1) proffered a useful definition of the

trombone palette, (2) redirected and deepened the advance of trombone literature, and (3)

assisted both students and professionals in recognizing possibilities and realizing dreams.

MCILWAIN: I have begun to read the book, The San Francisco Tape Music Center:

1960s Counterculture and the Avant-Garde ed. Bernstein, which includes an interview

with you by Thomas Welsh. Robert Erickson also refers to the San Francisco Tape Music

Center in his Music of Many Means. Erickson says that the premiere of Ricercar a 5,

along with works by Childs, Austin, Cage, Oliveros, and Berio made up your first "all-out

solo recital of new music." Erickson goes on to state that "audience, musicians, and

critics were impressed, and that night Stu successfully launched his campaign to place

the trombone in the main stream of contemporary music." Could you discuss this "first

all-out solo recital of new music"?

DEMPSTER: In the 1960s a recital by a trombonist playing almost anything was still

somewhat rare, even in a school setting. Trombonists belonged in the back of the

orchestra (or band) and that pretty much took care of the thinking at the time. Their were

some exceptions, like in settings such as Eastman, but for the most part a trombone

recital was hard to come by. It seems to me that when I was an undergraduate at San

Francisco State there may have been a total of three trombone recitals - including mine.

Even that one, in 1958, included what was then considered new music: Sonatas by G. F.

McKay, Hindemith, "Choros No. 4" by Villa Lobos plus a brass quartet of my own, and

two other student compositions - genuinely new music. Well, the dates were recent even

if the actual musical concepts were not so new in the manner of how one would think of

the term "new music" today. In 1958 I was already ferreting out ―original‖ music for

trombone.

Thinking of my own ―all out‖ new music recital eight years later seemed less

weird, simply because my head space was thinking about new, interesting music and not

necessarily ―for trombone‖ except for the fact that the trombone is what I played. I was

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getting a taste of a larger concept, however, by the notion of commissioning pieces for

trombone and I am so grateful that Erickson nudged my thinking with regard to asking

other composers to compose pieces for me. There were certainly hints in the past of a

movement toward new trombone pieces with the likes of trombonist David Shuman

setting a then recent standard with his own requests - perhaps even some of them

commissions - for pieces by Milhaud, Bloch and others. And further nudges by the

existing pieces by Barney Childs and Larry Austin only helped the situation. The Cage

piece already was a bit of a classic, as I write about in The Modern Trombone, although I

don't know how many, if any, may have performed Cage's ―Solo for Sliding Trombone‖

as a solo before I did.

It was rather an ―all out‖ effort. The commission pieces took a lot of work to get

in shape, or to get them at all, and the other three I had never performed before either.

There was a lot of grunt work in practicing and, at the performances themselves, there

was a tremendous amount of staging issues to take care of as well as making ―prop‖ lists

and organizing personnel. I needed stage hands, I was doing all the publicity myself, and

the printing of programs and a brochure was mine to do, too. It was not like now; at the

time one had to have a lot of lead time to get anything printed. Then there was the

mailing to everyone I could think of. The ―all outness‖ of the concerts themselves

became apparent to anyone who attended simply through the sheer amount of theater,

staging and lighting even if they may have been unaware of all the other preparations

mentioned above.

The concert attracted the critics, but then almost anything going on the San

Francisco Tape Music Center (SFTMC) attracted some kind of attention. I may have

generated a largish audience simply because I was attracting composers, performers,

theater and dance people, and even visual artists. There was a crossover audience coming

to the SFTMC on a regular basis. I had already played in the premiere of Terry Riley's

―In C‖ at the Center as well as a follow-up ―In C‖ concert a few months later. I was also

heavily involved performing in several concerts in 1964 including the infamous

―Cage/Tudor Fest‖. I was beginning to garner quite a following even though I was not

myself composing at the time, and my many friends in the symphony, opera, ballet, jazz

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and dance band groups that I played in, and students at two colleges where I was teaching

were very curious as to what I was up to.

By this time I was already making tapes for composers that turned out to be a

precursor for ―The Modern Trombone,‖ and I began to sense that something larger was

going on over and above this one recital. Because of the success of the recital I was soon

in touch with Bay Area composer Andrew Imbrie and Southern California composer

Ernst Krenek. After that I began to contact several other composers with requests to

think about possible works for trombone. It was a heady time for sure, and I had no idea

of just how far this was going to go. I didn't end up with the quantity of pieces that some

new music performers could boast about but the quality of the pieces I garnered was very

high and sometimes spectacular. This quality was not accidental but rather due to a deep

commitment on the part of both composers and performer and a willingness to work

closely together.

MCILWAIN: Can you describe some of your memorable experiences in San Francisco

Tape Music Center? Did you get a chance to work with Folke Rabe and Jan Bark?

DEMPSTER: So many memorable events for me at the SFTMC, both as audience

member and as performer. 1964 was a banner year as I allude to above. Besides the

amazing Cage/Tudor Fest there were all kinds of other concerts going on as well as visits

by various composers, not least of which was Jan Bark and Folke Rabe. They played for

me the mockup of their ―Bolos‖ and my jaw dropped. Here were two trombone players

that were turning each other on to many new sounds for trombone at the same time I was

developing my own acoustic repertoire, and all this going on in another country

completely unbeknownst to me - my first experience with the phenomenon of parallel

development.

Events that seem to be the most memorable at the SFTMC and elsewhere seem to

bunch up in 1964 with some spill over into 1965--and, of course, my own recital a year

later. Even earlier, in 1963, there was a city-wide event organized by SFTMC folks

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called ―Cityscape‖ where, among so very much else going on, I was to play trombone in

the Broadway tunnel just off of North Beach. Even now I will occasionally run into

someone who remembers seeing me there. In the writing of the SFTMC book, I was

asked along with many others as to when Cityscape took place. Apparently nobody is

able to remember when it took place, which gives a more nuanced meaning to the oft-

quoted sentence, ―If you remember the sixties you weren't there.‖

My favorite memories include all the Cage/Tudor Fest concerts (there were three)

that included several Cage pieces as well as other works by Pauline Oliveros, Alvin

Lucier, and George Brecht. I played in several of the Cage pieces and also ―Sapporo‖ by

Toshi Ichiyanagi where I played my first, last, and only performance on shakuhachi. In

several concerts over the next few months I played music by Robert Hughes for the dance

―Anagnorisis‖ where I played an extended solo on garden hose. Robert Moran organized

various concerts that I played in that featured his music, including an early version of

―Bombardments No. 4,‖ as well as works by Cage, including a three hour performance of

―Atlas Eclipticalis with Winter Music‖ at the Sokoji Buddhist Temple on Bush Street.

Included in all the various concerts during 1964-65 was a performance of

Oliveros' ―Pieces of Eight‖ where we not only played our instruments but also had Big

Ben alarm clocks set underneath our seats. There was a raft of other ―instruments‖ such

as a large iron cash register and a substantial shipping scale, packing crate, collection

plates, and a very large bust of Beethoven. There were projections and movement

involved - one could say choreographed - and likely other activity that I am not

remembering. This latter reminds me of another Oliveros work (back to the Cage/Tudor

Fest now) ―Duo for Accordion and Bandoneon with Possible Minah Bird Obbligato.‖

Performed on a revolving teeter-totter with a large, tall sculpture including a bird cage,

the sound of what I call revolving stereo totally amazed me.

Folke Rabe returned to the SFTMC in 1965 and, among other things, had me join

in an improvised performance under his direction for Anna Halprin's Dance Company.

Not only was our duo music memorable but also the dance. Anna was far ahead of her

time in some of the things she was asking her dancers to do. I was amazed at what I saw

and, frankly, was amazed at our music-making together. Soon after my 1966 recital I

went to Stockholm with Robert Erickson to perform some of my pieces. A couple of

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years later (1968) I was back to Scandinavia, this time in Copenhagen, where I met up

with the ―Kulturquartet‖ - four trombone players including both Bark and Rabe - and we

played the Erickson ―Ricercar á 5‖ live (I had done it live for the first time at the 1967

Cabrillo Festival).

MCILWAIN: As seen in many performances in the Tape Music Center, lighting,

costumes, and theatrics play huge roles. I know certain pieces that you have

commissioned require specific lighting, costumes or staging considerations (such as

General Speech). How do you think these extramusical effects have enhanced your

music?

DEMPSTER: All the theater work that I have done has been hugely important to me. It

has made me conscious in a very direct way of staging and presentation, creating a

character (for a given piece) and staying in that character, and becoming aware of how

organized I need to be. It also has been part of the background I bring to improvisation

where I often surround the audience or, at least, walk amongst or around the audience. It

has taught me to take advantage of opportunities to ―move‖ sound in a performance space

in such a way as to encompass the audience and/or create traveling sound that is often

quite mysterious. All this I usually do without electronics, and I am most happy when the

audience isn't sure where I am - perhaps being occupied watching the stage. This allows

me to go deep into the mystery of sound location and, if I am working with, or along side,

a sound system, I can create a confusion as to what is me and what is from other players,

and so on.

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APPENDIX B

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH JAMES

LEBENS

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James Lebens studied with Stuart Dempster during his doctoral work at the University of

Washington. In 2007, Lebens released his album, Ewazen Lebens Eklund Play Ewazen

through Albany Records. He is joined on the album with the Eric Ewazen on piano and

Niklas Eklund on trumpet. Currently, Lebens is trombone professor and department chair

at the Université Laval in Quebec, Canada.

Note: Initial contact with James Lebens was via e-mail, followed by an extensive phone

interview. All correspondence and statements are copied as received.

E-mail Transcript

LEBENS: I am trombone professor and department head of Université Laval's music

faculty, and have pursued with some success a performing and recording career which

has brought me to Europe, Mexico, Asia and Brazil, as well as across the US and Canada.

I studied with Stuart in the late 80's and have had a long time association with him

as my mentor in many aspects of music, trombone performance, repertoire choices,

choices to be made in the business aspect of music, how to approach performance and

recording.

I think it would be best to talk to you over the phone, then you could do some

digging and get more of what you need.

Stu has always been a special person for me (I do mean that in the positive sense

!!!) and I carry a lot of his influence around with me. Things I remember that I won't go

into too much detail about are catch phrases that I still use in my own teaching, "Use your

air like a bow...". Some things which really impressed me (our performance of Riley's

"In C" together, and I'm still trying to get that sound out of the trombone I heard him do...

wow!), his audacity... when I was confronted with what seemed to me an insurmountable

problem with a tic in my breathing, he just said, "Well, you're just going to have to decide

that you're not going to play that way anymore ! " Fairly brutal at the moment, but dog

gone it he was right, and I'm still playing today.

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DEMPSTER: Nice thoughts, Jim, and you haven't even done the interview. Your little

paragraph brings up a couple of points of interest.

I often say that the trombone is a "double-bowed instrument." One is the air, and

the other is the slide. Jim, you may remember that I would regularly suggest that

trombonists should go to flute clinics to learn new insights about embouchure (and air in

relation to that) and to string clinics to gain insight into options for smooth slide

movement.

Your "tic" as you call it, brings to mind the following point: Once a student, or

anyone actually, has personally experienced the desired way of playing or breathing or

whatever it may be, the onus is on the student to "own" that experience, duplicate it, and

build upon it; a teacher cannot be of further assistance in that task except to be annoying.

In your case, Jim, you had experienced the desired form of playing but it tended to be

stuck in about the 30% range - not enough to establish a new body memory. Thus, it

came to where you needed to decide that you're going to play this new way or "that you

are not going play that [other] way anymore!" It worked and you quickly built a much

higher percentage of good playing therefore allowing the stuff you didn't need simply to

melt away. Brutal it may have been, but it is taking ownership of the situation that allows

growth to take place.

Transcript of Phone Interview

MCILWAIN: Can you tell me a little bit about how studying with Stuart Dempster was?

Do you have any “Dempsterisms,” his quotes that he would use as he taught?

LEBENS: Well, I‘ll start at the beginning I guess. I first met him…I was an artist in

residence at Banff Center for Fine Arts, which is in Alberta. At that time, I was really

interested in getting into the new music repertoire. I was playing Xenakis Keren.

Xenakis actually came to Banff for a week, so I did the North American premiere of that

piece. I‘ve played it quite a few times, since then and I hope to never play it again.

(laugh)

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MCILWAIN: It’s kind of a beast of a piece.

LEBENS: Oh, man…the split tones in that are just insane! In fact, I worked on it with

Stuart and he said, ―Well, I‘m glad there‘s you young guys around who can put the

energy into a piece like this, because it is just a bear.‖ If you have ever played

Keren…it‘s amazingly difficult. You could work on it a year and still never get it right.

I had his [Stuart‘s] The Modern Trombone book and I said, ―I am really interested

in didjeridu and I‘m really interested in the new music repertoire (the Berio Sequenza and

all of that).‖ I was all of twenty-six, twenty-seven years old at the time. And the director

of Banff said, ―Yeah, yeah we‘ll get him up.‖ So, he [Dempster] came up…my first

impression, I thought he would be this dignified, snobby guy and he was just the most

unassuming kook that I had ever met. He had this way about him…he really liked to

challenge his students in interesting ways. I remember picking him up at the airport and

he had all sort of funny mannerisms and little jokes. And I thought, ―My goodness!‖ And

I just got more and more nervous, but as soon as we started talking we just hit it off.

That week he played a recital, I remember he played the Sulek Vox Gabrieli like

I‘ve never heard it played before. I remember he played the Berio Sequenza V. In all the

years I‘ve known him that was the only time I heard him play it live. There is now a CD

out, which is a collection of Sequenzas performed by the original artists. [Dempster

correction: ―whereas I am one of the original artists most are not. It is the four CD

release a few years back by Mode Records that contains all known solo pieces including

all the Sequenze‖] There are a lot of Sequenzas out there, but nobody plays it like Stu. To

see him do it live is the only one I have ever seen who has actually caught what the piece

is about.

He had a way of…I‘m not going to say ―keep you guessing,‖ but sort-of ―prick

your mind,‖ so that you would be there in front of this great artist and you want him to

tell you how to do it...he would give you just enough information to make you figure it

out yourself. He really liked to put you on the spot. I remember specifically, oh my God,

one of the most nerve-wracking moments, I‘ve since conquered my nerves-I never get

nervous performing anymore, but [Dempster] had a master class with composers,

performers, and everybody on the Berio Sequenza V. I‘m sitting there with my score

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ready to take notes…And [Dempster] said, ―Rather than myself playing, because I‘m

going to be performing it tomorrow night…I‘d like the trombone resident to come up

here and perform it and demonstrate it.‖ I thought, ―Holy Crap! I‘ve never played the

piece in public before and you are having me up here.‖ But if the boss says, ―do it‖ you

do it. So I went up there and did it.

It was a time that I was learning a lot of insights into the piece. Stuart is the only

one that I know that performs it with the comedy and the pathos that represents the

clown, Grock. [Dempster] walks out there in character…just that first performance, I

learned so much about stage presence from observing that guy. I‘ve seen other people do

it and they make it into a farce. He is the only one that I know that captures the honesty

of what‘s behind the piece. I remember him walking out there totally in character and

with the Glen Miller plunger mute, walking out there in white tie and tales as the piece is

supposed to be performed in. Nobody ever notices in the score that it is supposed to be in

white tie and tales, because trombone players never look at the instructions to anything.

They just go and try to do all of the hard stuff right away. He said that in 1966…today if

a performer goes out in white tie and tales, now I have seen Christian Lindberg do this in

his clown outfit and it just doesn‘t really do it for me. But the white tie and tales,

[Dempster] said that in 1966 it was really a statement. Back in the sixties people were

coming out and performing new music in jeans and t-shirts…[Dempster] said that when

he played the Sequenza as Berio wanted it in white tie and tales, everybody was like,

―Whoa, what‘s going on here?‖ It comes out to be beautiful filled with comedy and

pathos at the same time.

When I worked on it with him, the theatrical gestures he had were astounding. I

try to take as much as I can from him. Not try to copy, but I try to capture that. I think

maybe I have succeeded about one percent. I don‘t want to brag, but I remember I met

Christian Lindberg after he recorded it the first time. He came to me and said, ―You

worked with Stuart Dempster? Could I go over the Sequenza with you?‖ I mean this is

Christian Lindberg! Other people around the country have called me to consult on the

piece, because I guess they are afraid to call Stu. So I said, ―Yeah, Chris…‖ no imagine

me telling Mr. Lindberg, who is a very nice guy, that yeah, you know you got a few

things wrong. If you read the instructions, you would have gotten it right. [Lindberg]

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missed the boat on a lot of things in the first recording. The second recording is

phenomenal.

I remember Stu had me stand up in that room in front of those people. I could

barely play the piece, but just doing that to me…it made me understand that piece, so

much more quickly than I would have if I would have spent fifty hours in a practice

room.

By the way, when I was at Juilliard (I have a bachelor‘s and master‘s from

Juilliard with Per [Brevig]) and I wanted to do this piece in 1984. And Per said, ―Well,

Jim you are going to work on that piece for six months and then you are going to play it.

It will be the hardest thing you have ever done and nobody will even like it, so don‘t do

it.‖ So, I put it on the back burner, but I said that some day I was going to do this piece.

Little did I know that I would get the opportunity to work on it with Stu.

Performance factors of it: I would say it is definitely a theater piece and you have

to practice every gesture that you are going to do along with the musical notes. The first

section, the way Stuart does it, he is following the arrows in the first line as if he is

looking for birds to shoot. It is so effective, absolutely amazing. Going through the rest

of the piece, I didn‘t have a clue on how to do it. When I heard Stu play it, I don‘t think

he had it as perfectly as it was in the score, but it didn‘t matter. Stu is really, really big on

pacing—we‘ll get to into that later—I had no idea how to perform the Berio Sequenza,

because it is unmeasured, just line after line. He said, ―Imagine there is a cursor moving

across each line at this speed.‖ Each line it says ten seconds, fifteen seconds, and so

forth. But he moved a pencil, as a cursor, across the line and he said, ―When the pencil

hits that note, that is when you play it.‖ I found that a lot of the pacing that I was doing

on it, some of it I was way too slow and some of it I was way too fast. It made the piece

completely clear to me.

Also, his control of the vowel sounds on the trombone is completely amazing. I

think the work I did with him on the Sequenza and the General Speech (Man, I haven‘t

done General Speech in like twenty years…I should do it again, but there again I am in

Canada and it‘s kind of hard to do a piece about General MacArthur up here.) I remember

working on those pieces with him, and the Xenakis Keren…I thought that those

techniques (like in General Speech) would ruin my technique. Stu said, ―No, no, no

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absolutely not.‖ These new techniques make you more aware of the sound palette

possibilities. I think it is because of that it carried into everything that I did. I am not

locked into one sound, I have a variety of possibilities in everything I do.

When I requested that he come to Banff and he did, he taught me to play

didjeridu. He had this attitude about things: ―Either you could do it or you can‘t.‖ There

was no practicing twenty hours to get it right. I‘ve transferred that into my own teaching.

You can practice it twenty hours wrong and all you are going to do is get really good at

doing it wrong. [Dempster] would say that there is a way to circular breath and this is

how you do it. Techniques on trombone are like…he used this expression: ―Remember,

the first time you drove a car with a clutch instead of automatic transmission. There was

a time you couldn‘t do it and suddenly you could do it. To him that was how circular

breathing worked on the trombone [and didjeridu]. That was probably what pissed me

off more than anything else with studying with him. And listening to him over the past

twenty years comment on my playing and my career, he just really questions, ―Why are

you doing it that way?‖

The best anecdote I have about that is when I was having problems…when I was

in Seattle, I was his teaching assistant and I was taking over for him during his sabbatical

year. I started having trouble with the Valsalva maneuver. Do you know what that is?

MCILWAIN: I do. I actually have struggled with some of the same issues with that. It’s

a frustrating thing.

LEBENS: Oh, yeah. I know a trombone player whose career in an orchestra ended after

twenty years, because he couldn‘t do it anymore. He got a medical disability leave,

because he went to Jan Kagarice and they said it was focal dystonia or something. He

just couldn‘t play anymore.

I started going through that and I tried everything. I was desperate. I was twenty-

eight years old and I thought, ―My God, my career is over. What am I going to do?‖ I

even went to the drug store and bought the nose plug for swimmers, so that air wouldn‘t

come out my nose. Nothing was working. I was absolutely desperate. I had a lesson

with Stu and I said, ―I just can‘t get over this. I‘ve tried everything. You got to help

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me.‖ He just looked at me and said, ―Well, you are just going to have to decide that you

are not going to play that way anymore.‖ And he walked out. (laughs) That‘s your

answer??? But, it‘s just this kick in the pants…there have been thousands of people who

have played brass instruments easily since the aboriginals in 10,000 B.C. I said, ―OK.

I‘m not going to cause problems for myself anymore.‖ Two days later I had it figured out

and I have not been bothered by it since.

MCILWAIN: Wow, just by mentally trying to forget about it or what exactly?

LEBENS: Yeah, it‘s just that…[Dempster] referred to...Dude, you are bringing back to

many memories. I don‘t know if I am going to be able to sleep tonight. He referred to

problems in producing what you want to produce on the trombone as ―noise in the

system.‖ He said that if there was ―noise in the system‖ it was not something that you

could work on for ten years, five hours a day. If you practice with the ―noise in the

system,‖ the ―noise in the system‖ was still going to be there. You would just have to

find ways to hide it really well. When he said to me, ―You are just going to have to

decide not to play that way anymore,‖ I realized that there was something basically

wrong with what I was doing. I had all of this information from these books and teachers

of the past. I was trying to do what they wanted me to do and I said, ―Well, wait a

minute…what can I do that is completely different?‖ And so I just approached those

notes…everything in my head was telling me this was the wrong way to do it, but I am

going to give it a try. I don‘t remember what my preconceptions were at that point; we

are talking like twenty years ago. I just decided that the way I was playing was wrong. I

was practicing at it for four hours a day and it wasn‘t getting better. So I decided to do

things one hundred percent differently. Suddenly, bang it was gone!

MCILWAIN: What exactly did you do differently?

LEBENS: What did I do differently? Well, on the worst days I was gagging on

everything third line F and below. I think what I tried to do…Stu, when you get to know

him he has an almost childlike approach to the instrument, very innocent in what he does.

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I just thought, ―I‘m doing all of these things to make it harder on myself…thinking of

pushing the air from here, thinking of using my tongue speed to coordinate everything,

and I said, ―No. I‘m just going to pucker up and blow and see what comes out.‖ And it

did. Somehow I got rid of all of these things I was trying…I think my problem was that I

had fifty things going on in my head at the same time trying to get the note to come out.

And it just built up and I couldn‘t attack anything. And then when I acted like a little boy

who doesn‘t know anything and it just…like a free-buzz. Then I put that up to the horn

and in two days it was gone. Stu couldn‘t believe it either.

Another thing that really impressed me about Stu was that he was really into free-

buzzing. Being a stuck-up twenty-eight year old who had these diplomas from Juilliard

and post-graduate work at Banff, I was always taught that free-buzzing had nothing to do

with the trombone…except Per Brevig told me free-buzzing was a very good thing, but

he never insisted on it. I remember one lesson with Stu we were working on the Frank

Martin Ballade and he stood there asking if I had ever thought about free-buzzing this. I

said, ―No, why would I?‖ [Dempster] stood there and free-buzzed the entire first page up

until it goes up to the high d. I was so bloody impressed. I could not believe it. I said,

―Well, it‘s great that you can do that, but why would I want to do that?‖ He said, ―Well,

you can‘t do that, maybe you should figure out how to do that and see what happens.‖

He would never tell you ―do this because it is going to make this and this and this better.‖

He would say, ―Well, you can‘t do it, might as well figure out how to do it and see what

happens.‖ So I‘ve spent the last twenty years figuring out how to do that.

A special moment, right now I have a graduate student and he is working on the

Frank Martin Ballade. And I have been working on free-buzzing with him. I did the

same thing with him and he didn‘t really buy it. So I did the same thing and free-buzzed

the first page up until it goes to the high d. He is from Brazil and he said, ―Teacher,

that‘s amazing. I can‘t do that.‖ I said, ―Well, do it.‖ He said, ―What will it do for me?‖

I said, ―You‘ll see.‖ Figure it out for yourself. [Dempster] is just that type of guy. He

doesn‘t spoon feed you. He just really kind of jabs you, gives you just enough to make

you curious and leaves you wondering.

I remember when I first met him, when he came to Banff and he said that he

would do the Sonic Massage Parlor. I was beginning to think that this guy was a totally

87

wacked out left-over from the sixties. So I asked him what it was all about. He said,

―You‘ll find out when you get there.‖ I said, ―Come on. Tell me what it‘s about. I‘m a

kid from Minnesota and I don‘t want to get involved in one of these weird psychedelic

things. ―He replied, ―Nope. You‘ll see.‖ Leaving people in the dark, just giving them

enough information and then kind of drawing them in so they want more….then ―nope,

you‘ll find out.‖ (laugh) Okay…It‘s really a great technique. I don‘t even know if he

knows that he does it. He really has a talent for letting you think for yourself. Pricking

your mind, so you want to know more. He is really a fascinating guy.

…Stu‘s just that kind of funny guy. He cuts the wheat from the chaff and asks

why are you thinking about things so much. This is the way it is and you either do it or

you don‘t.

One of the big things I remember from him and I use it…to let you know how this

guy…I‘ve dated a lot of women who are control freaks. And this guy is the total

antithesis of a control freak as they can be. A typical ―Stu-thing‖ is that when I initially

went down to the University of Washington, it happened when we met at Banff, he said I

need someone to replace him, while he was on his sabbatical year to teach his students. I

said, ―Great, I‘ll do it.‖ Then he said, ―Well, while you are down there you might as well

do a doctorate.‖ I said, ―What? I don‘t want to do a doctorate. I‘m a player.‖ [Dempster

replied, ―No, no, no, you‘re going to do it!‖ There was no way out of it, so the two years

I was down there, I did a doctorate and finally got the dissertation finished in 1992. He

didn‘t tell me you have to do this or it‘s a good idea to do this. If I hadn‘t done that, I

wouldn‘t have this unbelievable, fantastic job here at Laval University. I wouldn‘t have

even been considered for the interview.

MCILWAIN: Yeah, that’s the way it is in higher academia right now.

LEBENS: Yeah, so I‘ve got this job that I can do all the playing I want to and take off all

the time I want, go to Europe to record, go to South America and tour, I can call anyone.

This slightly know-the University will fund me to go down to this and that school and do

some master classes and a concert. I think [Dempster] knew that as a trombone

player…he saw that I was working on excerpts and trying to get in an orchestra…I think

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he knew all along that wasn‘t my road. I was always sort of an intellectual guy. I was

more concerned with the depth of the trombone, than try to play Mahler‘s Third and

Bolero good enough to get into an audition. I can do those things…I can play excerpts

pretty well and I teach them….but it‘s just not my thing. Thank God, he came into my

life. I‘m pretty sure he saw that and he pushed me into a different direction.

Now that I‘m talking to you, I wish I could go back twenty-five years and do

things a little bit differently. One of the big things I carry away from his teaching…one

aspect of it is his humor. Have you been able to talk to Stu at all?

MCILWAIN: No, it’s just been through emails, but I have noticed his humor in the way

he has corresponded to some his students in emails he has copied me on. But I have not

talked to him on the phone or met him in person as of yet.

LEBENS: Well, once you get enough information gleaned off of his students, you should

stop the e-mail thing and give him a call. He‘ll talk to you for hours.

I‘ve already been interested in comedy, if you can‘t tell that already. (laughs) I

feel that from knowing Stu, I have found a way to use humor as a learning tool. When I

got the job I formed a contemporary music ensemble and things started happening with

recording and all. I would call [Dempster} and say, ―Jeez, what am I going to do?

(talking about repertoire) After this great concert coming up…‖ He‘d say, ―Be careful

what you wish for.‖ What‘s the other phrase? ―Serves you right.‖ (laughs). I‘m not

ready for this! ―Serves you right.‖ (laughs) I guess I‘ll have to stop moaning and get up

and do it.

MCILWAIN: That’s a big interest of mine, starting up a contemporary music group.

What advice did he have for you with that?

LEBENS: Well, he was pretty harsh. (laughs) When I interviewed for the job, I told

[Dempster], ―I‘ve been doing contemporary music when I was with you in Seattle. Over

the years I have been doing a fair amount of contemporary music, but I told them at the

interview that I was planning on founding a contemporary music workshop of

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improvisation, which I did with him for a year.‖ The first thing he said was, ―Well, it‘s

very interesting that you want to do that, but is there anybody else on the faculty that can

do that? I don‘t really think you are qualified to do that job.‖ I said, ―Oh, really!?!‖ So,

what did that do to me? It made me call him back three or four times and say, ―Look, I‘m

desperate here, what can I do?‖ Talked about activities, he got me to buy some of the

writings of Pauline Oliveros, her ideas on improvisation. I read Ideas for Improvisation.

This seemed so much from the sixties, so strange. I talked to him about it: ―Man, I can‘t

do this.‖ His reply: ―Serves you right.‖ (laughs) That was his line. So I said, ―By God,

I‘m going to do it.‖ Now the Contemporary Music Workshop is one of the more popular

things with students. At first, I thought it was going to be a lot of work. I remember

from talking to Stu, and trying to remember what I did in his improv group at the

University. The less you do, the better things are, because the kids want to be there and

do contemporary improvisation. He said, ―Sometimes, I would take out a five dollar bill.

(and say) This is your score. Play it.‖ The kids would improvise their impressions of the

five dollar bill. I have found that the less I do, the more they will give. I‘ll say, ―Next

week, each one of you are going to write a poem. We are going to improvise to each one

of your poems. It can‘t be more than ten lines.‖ That was the type of thing that Stu would

do and just come in and say, ―Who‘s got this, who‘s got that? OK, do it.‖ He would

watch everything around and comment on it, but very, very little. He would let everyone

find there own way.

I have very fond memories, when I did the thing with poetry…there was this

English guy came in with this poem that could have been from a cigarette, smoke-filled

café in the late fifties…sounded exactly like Ginsberg: ―Red wine spilled on the table/

drips on her dress/ No stains it‘s black/ I love you‖ (laughs) And that was his poem, it

was so ridiculously Ginsberg. [Dempster] had a way to say this is what we are going to

do. He would not dogmatically speak on with these long discourses on how to do it. He

would just have you figure it out. Amazing guy.

Just to see him perform… you know the innocence and the energy…just the

child-like humor and total lack of pretension. One of the things I most despise in life is

pretension. He is totally devoid of it. His music is total honesty.

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As far as his teaching…one of his big things was: ―Use your air as bow.‖ That

was what I talked to you in the e-mail about. [Dempster] wrote me back and commented

on that. He said, ―The trombone is actually a double-bowed instrument.‖ The slide is one

of the bows, so that has to be moved gracefully and the air is the other bow. That was

one of the other things that got me over the Valsava as well. I just would tell myself that

my air is not working like a bow. It‘s getting stuck. I still use that principle in my

teaching. If I see someone that has some of these preconceptions: ―I have to attack like

this, I have to blow like this…‖ I got this student from China and he is just a collector of

information. ―My teacher in China studied at Juilliard and said my attacks are too hard

and I have to be harder and this other teacher said…‖ I said, ―No. Just listen to what the

music asks for and use your air like a bow.‖ I don‘t give him any more information than

that.

It‘s true, if the bow is sitting on the string and it‘s stuck or if it jerks at the

beginning…I think that‘s just as good or an even better image than Arnold Jacobs has in

[Song and Wind]. I almost wish that Stu would write a book about it, but I don‘t think he

could. All he would say is, ―This is the title of the book: Use Your Air Like a Bow.

Chapter One: Use your air like a bow.‖ And that would be it. That‘s all he gave me, but

it‘s sheer genius distilled down into one thing. I thank him for that. I quote him in all of

my teaching and with every student from the most elementary to the doctoral students.

Another thing on humor…he is one of the funniest men I know. I hope you get a

chance to talk

to him.

MCILWAIN: I do too.

LEBENS: I‘m sure he would like to meet someone like you. Just little

things…[Dempster] introduced me to Spike Jones. I had never heard Spike Jones before.

Do you know that song, the ―Der Fuehrer‘s Face‖?

MCILWAIN: I do not, no.

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LEBENS: It‘s called ―Der Fuehrer‘s Face.‖ You got to look that up on YouTube. I

think it has Tommy Pederson playing trombone. It has the ―golden tones.‖ Virtuoso

golden tones. I would say, ―I can‘t do that.‖ [Dempster] would say, ―Yeah you can. You

do it like this…‖ I‘d say, ―Why would I want to play like that?‖ And he‘d say, ―It‘ll

make you a better trombone player if you can do that.‖ I said, ―You‘re crazy.‖ But he

was right!

His sense of humor was just, well…A lot of classical musicians go into a concert

and it is like that Monty Python routine where the guy goes up and does the Bob Dylan

impression and before he starts to sing he says, ―Ladies and gentlemen, I have suffered

for my music. Now it‘s your turn.‖ That‘s what a lot of classical music has been a lot of

the time and it shouldn‘t be. [Dempster] taught me that you can have humor in a lot of

things. You can have it as a teaching tool, use it in concerts to put the audience at ease

and bring them in. I talk a lot in my concerts when I do solo recitals even if I don‘t play

well. I kind of have the audience eating out of my hands.

I remember he would distinguish between mental errors and physical errors. If it

was a mental error, he wouldn‘t make a big thing about it. He had this gesture he would

use where he would hold out his hand and make a bird sound. He would put out his hand

like he had bird seed in it, and then imitate a bird. I don‘t know the significance of that

gesture and I do it to my students, when they make a mental error. They have no idea

where I am coming from on it, but they just say, ―Oh, OK. Professor Lebens says that‘s a

mental error and I‘m not going to let it happen again or he‘s going to do that stupid bird

gesture again.‖ It sort of takes care of it.

He also had a joke I‘ve repeated so many times…I asked [Dempster] about

tonguing and articulation and he says, ―There‘s three types of tonguing: flubber, duggle,

and trickle tonguing. Flubber, flubber, flubber, duggle, duggle, duggle, duggle, trickle,

trickle, trickle‖ So, now when I am working in a group and there is a tricky articulation

passage I say, ―How are you tonguing that? Are you using duggle, flubber, or trickle

tonguing?‖ (laughs) He was just a nut.

In later years, memories I have of him…when I was preparing for this CD with

Ewazen. I‘m just sort of an ordinary trombone player from Minnesota. And Eric and I

sort of clicked when we played together. Eric said, ―I want us to record a CD for Albany

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Records….‖ When I was working on that CD, I was pretty desperate, since I went to

New York a month before we recorded. I rehearsed with Eric for five days, two to three

hours a day a month before the recording to learn all of the stuff. We played a recital for

Eric and his friends in some studio at Juilliard. The day I was leaving to get on a plane

back to Quebec I said, ―So, Eric, what are you going to be doing between now and the

recording in July?‖ Eric replied, ―Oh, I‘ll be going to Sweden to play in a trombone

festival. I‘ll be accompanying Christian Lindberg and Charlie Vernon and it‘s going to

be great.‖ I think, ―God, holy crap..! This guy is going to be playing with Lindberg and

Charlie Vernon then coming up to record with me? I called Stu up and said, ―Buy me a

gun, so I can eat it.‖ You can‘t get [a gun] up here in Canada. Pretty intimidating. Stu

said, ―Calm down. How are you working on this stuff?‖ I told him that I was just

blasting through it and trying to get it as right as possible. He said you got to do what we

used to do in Seattle…working with a blocked piano. You block a piano and play notes

to get them to resonate. I started holding down the chord notes of whatever phrase I was

doing and tried to get each note to resonate as solidly as possible. Just because of that,

[Dempster] saved my life on that CD. (laughs) Just put the pedal down and practice your

B flat for ten minutes. It will make your sound so much more centered. Do really slow

glissandi into each note…Stu would block the piano and play five or six notes and the

piano would ring because he was so centered and well in tune. So I started doing that and

I still do it now. One of the comments about that CD was not only that it was pretty

musical, a critic said intonation was astounding. As we all know the trombone is a

―manually-operated pitch approximator.‖ [Dempster] really saved my life.

When I made the CD I thought, ―Great, now I have done something to really

please Stu.‖ Because he would never come out and say, ―That was fantastic or you are

great‖ like Eric Ewazen does all of the time. I‘ve known [Dempster] for twenty-five

years and I still don‘t know if he feels I‘m a good trombone player. I really don‘t. It‘s

kind of funny.

When I went of to do that recording [Czech Philharmonic Chamber Orchestra

with Niklas Eklund, trumpet recording Ewazen‘s Double Concerto], the sounds of those

Eastern European strings blew away anything I had ever heard in Canada….before I went

to that recording I like to think I had this level-headed sense of nice stage presence. I get

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my act together, go give recitals and do a good job. I told Stu, ―This is a bit above my

head, can you help me on this?‖ The Double Concerto is on the CD that is out now [with

piano accompaniment]. [Dempster] said to give him a week. A week later, I called him.

He had taken the CD that was already out. I have it somewhere, because we had a three

hour conversation. He had picked out two-second snips from the CD and he would say,

―Do you hear the sound you got on that note? That‘s the sound you should have. That

note really zinged. Now if you can transfer the sound from that note to other registers…‖

What? Does this guy have a lot of time on his hands? What‘s going on? To pick out

―from six minutes and fifty-three seconds to six minutes and fifty-five seconds, listen to

that note.‖ Jeez. Are you kidding me? But he was right on the money. I tried to take that

sound…His big complaint about me, when he first knew me was that my sound was

really ―tubby‖ or ―thuddy‖ and ―a bit too dark.‖ He really wanted to enrich the harmonic

spectrum of my sound. It finally sank in after twenty years. If I hadn‘t been in touch

with him, it wouldn‘t have. I‘m grateful.

…I think that‘s about all I got. (laugh) ….Oh well, there is another thing that I‘m

pretty privileged or…I‘m going to try to make this sound as unpretentious and un-

egotistical as possible, but…because of the work we did on Sequenza, Stu gave me a

book called The Life of Grock in French….

MCILWAIN: I’ve run across that here at the library at FSU.

LEBENS: The version he had was in French. When I opened the book, the blank page

right before the index and chapters and whatever, had a caricature of the clown, Grock. It

was not something printed. It was an actual drawing by Grock. I tore that page from the

book and had it framed. It‘s in my living room and I‘m looking at it right now. It‘s just a

caricature of Grock and it says: ―Souvenir of Grock.‖ [Dempster] never said anything

about it. I asked him, ―You must be so sick of teaching the Berio Sequenza with all of

your students wanting to learn it.‖ He replied, ―Nope, nobody ever asks about it.‖

MCILWAIN: You’re kidding?

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LEBENS: No. I was just astounded. All I wanted to do was learn that piece and we

spent a lot of time on it. Since then I‘ve got it memorized and I could play it anytime you

wanted. When I left Seattle or when I did the dissertation defense, he gave me that book.

It was like he was saying, ―Someone out there has got to keep the spirit of the Berio

Sequenza alive…‖ Again, trying to make this sound with as little pretension as I can…it

was like [Dempster] was confiding this piece to [me]. I want to keep the memory of this

piece and it‘s almost like he is wanting to keep [Grock‘s] memory alive too. Pretty

amazing thing…

He plays a very interesting trombone, the Conn 88-H with two valves like a bass

trombone. I remember seeing him in concerts and people would ask him, ―Why are you

playing a bass trombone?‖ His response was, ―No, it‘s a tenor with two valves.‖ He

used a very large mouthpiece, a Bach 3. At the time I wasn‘t really into mouthpieces…I

asked Stu why he used a 3. He replied, ―Well, I was in the [Cabrillo Festival Orchestra]

and we were doing Brahms‘ Second. In the middle of the concert, I looked at the second

trombone player and asked what mouthpiece he was using. He said it was a Bach 3. And

the second trombone asked me what I was using.‖ They switched mouthpieces in the

middle of the concert and he has been using that mouthpiece ever since. (laughs) That‘s

just the type of guy he is. ―Oh, I‘ll try that!‖ I‘m still in that mindset that…people have

been playing brass instruments since before I was born…and all of this ―backbore is one,

one thousandths of millimeter different, this rim is whatever..‖ What‘s the big deal?

Bass trombone friend of my in the Hong Kong Phil is from Kentucky and he says, ―Jim,

what‘s the big deal here? We‘re making our living blowing into a big brass tube.‖ He‘s

right about that. I believe Schilke said, ―It‘s not the horn you‘re playing, it‘s the man

behind the gun.‖ Stu was just like that.

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APPENDIX C

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH PAULINE

OLIVEROS

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Composer Pauline Oliveros is not only a former classmate of Stuart Dempster‘s at San

Francisco State College, but also a long-time collaborator and friend. A founding

member of the San Francisco Tape Music Center, Oliveros also founded the Deep

Listening Band with Dempster. In 2005, Dempster and Oliveros celebrated fifty years of

collaboration.

Note: This transcript is taken from a phone interview with composer, Pauline Oliveros.

All correspondence and statements are copied as received.

MCILWAIN: I understand that you and Stu Dempster met while in school in San

Francisco and eventually collaborated frequently during the 1960s with the San

Francisco Tape Music Center. Now I know that both of you participate a lot with these

Deep Listening projects. I was wondering if you could discuss your work with Stu

Dempster and the creative and collaborative relationship you share?

OLIVEROS: Oh, well… (laugh). Let‘s see where to start? Well, I mean it‘s a very, very

long story, so to speak. We did start as being members of the San Francisco State

College Band and Orchestra. Actually, it was the orchestra that we played in. Stuart was

always sort-of supportive in hanging around the composer‘s workshop at San Francisco

State. He and Terry Riley and Loren Rush and myself, we had a camaraderie around

composition at that time. Stuart went to the Army and it wasn‘t until later that we met up

again. That was around our association with Robert Erickson. Robert Erickson was my

composition teacher and mentor. And Erickson worked a lot with Stuart, making pieces

for Stuart to play and also learning about trombone. Stuart would come down to the

University of California, where I was teaching and Bob was teaching. We would meet up

there, time to time. I sort-of skipped the time in San Francisco, though, when I made a

piece for him, a theater piece for trombone players. That was a piece that the tape part

was made from sounds that Stuart had contributed. He made the sounds and then I put

the tape together with the sounds. It was like an arrangement, in a way. He played live

with that. I don‘t know if you have seen the video of it or not?

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MCILWAIN: I have not, no maam’. I’ve read it in one of his books. He has actually

talked with me some about the past few months, but I have not tracked down the video

yet, no maam’.

OLIVEROS: Well, there is a video of that piece that he made. So, that was when he was

putting together a program that he took on tour around the world. Then, let‘s see, after I

moved to the East Coast, eventually, he came to the East Coast and played in a band that

I put together. At the time, I can‘t remember…we played for Deborah Hay and her dance.

We played together for her. That was sort-of the beginning of our work that has

continued to this day. There were times where I would be on the West Coast or he would

be on the East Coast and we would be playing together for something. But the central

point, I think, was when we went to the Cistern and made the Deep Listening recording.

MCILWAIN: I actually listened to that for the first time a few months ago. It was a very

neat thing. I mean it was very, very cool. I participated in my first group improvisation

a few months ago. It was something that was new to me. I would love to do more of it

myself.

OLIVEROS: Good. That is a good thing to do.

MCILWAIN: Yes maam’. What would you say is deep listening and the Deep Listening

Band?

OLIVEROS: Well, you can‘t be exact about it (laugh). But I can give you a brief

definition of deep listening. It‘s experiencing heightened awareness of sound, silence,

and sounding. The key word is ―experiencing‖ it. It is a practice that has grown over

many, many years now of giving full attention, continuously to listening. So down in the

Cistern was where deep listening was born so-to-speak, the concept. We were playing in

an environment that had a forty-five second reverberation time, which means that when

you played a sound it was there for forty-five seconds. This kind of environment is very

challenging. If you make a mistake it would be there for forty-five seconds. So you

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don‘t make mistakes. That really hones your attention. So you are playing, listening to

yourself and others. And you are also listening to the space itself. This kind of

experience heightens your awareness. So when we discovered we had enough material

for a CD, I started writing the liner notes to the CD and called the style we were playing

in deep listening. So from there that stuck and I realized it was a very good description

for the way I was working. So then we called it the Deep Listening Band and that has

stuck of course. And now there are Deep Listening retreats, Deep Listening workshops,

and now we have the Deep Listening Institute.

MCILWAIN: I have actually went to your website and looked around quite a bit. I am

very new to all of this (laugh) the deep listening area, but trying to soak up as much as I

can as I go. Can you tell me a little bit about the piece that you collaborated with Stuart

Dempster on, the Theater Piece?

OLIVEROS: We got together and he made a lot of sounds for me. I recorded his sounds

and put together the piece. So it was as simple as that.

MCILWAIN: I have learned that one of the big collaborators that Stu Dempster had

was Robert Erickson. I know that he was one of your teachers. Could you tell me about

your experiences with Robert Erickson, so I can get a different perspective on him?

OLIVEROS: Well, when I went to San Francisco in 1952 I was looking for a

composition mentor. It wasn‘t until 1954 that I met Bob. My experience with him...the

first lesson I had with him I was absolutely delighted. I can remember the feeling, it was

fantastic. I had finally found a person who could give me guidance, but who wouldn‘t

take over my music. He was really an excellent teacher. He inspired all of his students.

He really knew a lot about music; so that he could teach you in such a way that he could

bring things to your attention that were relevant to you. This is what, I think, was a very

big strength of his teaching…and also because he was very passionate about his subjects

and what he was doing. The relationship was very strong, very good.

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MCILWAIN: Could you tell me a little bit about your work with the San Francisco Tape

Music Center? There is actually a book that was published a couple of years ago with

some interviews with various people, including yourself and Stuart Dempster, edited by

Bernstein, I believe. I read some of that and was wondering if you could tell me a little

bit about your experience in the sixties with that?

OLIVEROS: That was a great time, where we all had a really good time. It was really

about creating a new art form, which was multimedia; you know electronic music and

projected imagery. We were gathered around together in a musical endeavor to work

with electronic music, because at that time there were no places you could work on

that…so we had to create that space and that is what we did with my colleagues: Ramon

Sender, Morton Subotnick, and myself, Anthony Martin, Bill Maginnis. So we had a

space where we could work with a studio that was jerry-rigged, put together. We made a

lot of music there. We also had space in the hall to… kind of a hall…it had been an old

labor hall…where we could put on concerts. We had a way of diffusing our music. We

gathered a subscription audience, put on concerts twice a month, and in a couple of years

it built quite a following…and also got critical reviews from the newspapers, which was

very important at the time. So, it was basically a lot of interaction amongst people who

were interested in developing the medium. Also, we had visitors from different countries

that came to the Tape Music Center, because they didn‘t have access themselves. So, it

was a very rich environment…a lot of fun.

MCILWAIN: Sure, yes maam’. Getting back to Stu Dempster, a little bit. What type of

collaborations are you guys currently doing, if any?

OLIVEROS: Well, I just had a very big concert in New York at Columbia University. I

was the recipient of the William Schumann award. You might be able to go online and

look that up, read about it. I had a three-hour concert, a tribute concert. The Deep

Listening Band performed and we did a piece that we played in Seattle last year. The

piece is called DroniPhonia. It is for six iPhones and Deep Listening Band or multi-

instrumentalists. So we are still developing pieces with the Deep Listening Band. Stuart

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and I keep playing together. We have also done telematic performances with Stuart in

Seattle and me in Evanston, Illinois and David Gamper. We did a video like that and that

was a few years back. Stuart and I celebrated fifty years of collaboration together. We

called it the Sedimental Journey. He was in Seattle and I was in Troy at RPI. We played

together with our images showing on screen at Mills College where there was a very

large audience for this performance. So we had very small audiences at our respective

venues, but very large audience at our virtual venue.

MCILWAIN: It is pretty amazing what technology allows these days.

OLIVEROS: (laugh) It keeps going…We have done a number of telematic performances

together, as well as performances in physical reality.

MCILWAIN: Can you tell me a little bit about the various sounds Stuart Dempster

brings to the table, from the sounds he makes on the trombone to the didjeridu, garden

hoses, conch shells, etc. as far as from a composer’s perspective? What type of

advantages does that have for you?

OLIVEROS: With as many years as we have with performing together and doing work

together what can I say? Stuart is very reliable. We know what each other can do, and

yet we keep doing things that are different even though some of the sound vocabulary is

very familiar. That is a very interesting phenomenon. It is musical inventiveness that

pours out. It‘s very wonderful to be able to play together after so many years. And each

time the experience has a different flavor, because it is a different time. Even though

there is great familiarity, there is great inventiveness.

MCILWAIN: When you first met Stuart Dempster back in college…he had talked a little

bit about his first meeting with you playing French horn and he was playing trombone in

the orchestra…

OLIVEROS: He loves that story.

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MCILWAIN: I was wondering if I could get your side of the story?

OLIVEROS: (laugh) Stuart has always been a great humorist. He is full of really good

humor. As a young man he was very, very energetic and very excitable. (laugh) He was

all over you, so-to-speak.

MCILWAIN: As a composer of your stature, would you have ever thought that you

would have collaborated this much with “some trombone player”?

OLIVEROS: (laugh) Well, as a matter of fact, no! (laugh) As it turns out, I know quite

a few trombone players and the instrument is amazing. It is an amazing instrument. You

can play it microtonally and you can get all sorts of sounds out of it. Every trombone

player that I know is very unique in their approach to the instrument. It shows the great

versatility that there is. Stuart has developed that to a great degree. Stuart has one of the

most beautiful tones that I have every heard on an instrument. He is a real master of the

instrument.

MCILWAIN: I definitely agree with that. I know a lot of your composition has been

with Deep Listening Band and other live, group improvisations…have you done much

work on other pieces solely for trombone?

OLIVEROS: Well, I think that the pieces I did for Stuart…was that once. I don‘t think I

have done any specific trombone pieces. My work became very conceptual. I wrote so

that different instruments could play.

MCILWAIN: It has been amazing learning the different contexts early on with you,

Stuart Dempster, Loren Rush, Terry Riley all at the same place…I mean…who would of

thought the people that would emerge from that school? At any point did you see

something magical happening back then with the various people there?

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OLIVEROS: It has always felt very, very intense and interesting. I had no idea that it

would go where it‘s gone. I look back on those times with great pleasure and feeling

with what we were able to accomplish together and also the camaraderie and fun.

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APPENDIX D

STATEMENT BY SCOTT MOUSSEAU

104

Scott Mousseau, a former student of Stuart Dempster, provided these notes about a

master class he attended upon request.

Note: All correspondence and statements are copied as received.

These notes are from a period of July 10, 1988 to June 25, 1989. While I was in the Air

Force, I had a chance to study with several great teachers. The lessons with Stu where

some of the most memorable.

I. Tone Aids

a. Practice Mute (I use a Dennis Wick mute):

i. When you blow air feel your gut move up.

ii. Try to get biting sound on every note.

iii. Helps develop an evenness of sound.

iv. Practice scales and arpeggios.

v. Take it to the limit then work on backing off.

b. Jaw Position

i. Lower Register:

1. Shift for lower register.

2. Keep teeth apart, but do not let lips separate too much.

c. Buzzing

i. When buzzing always keep the air supported ("lift and push" the

air).

ii. Exercise #1: Lifting the Air:

1. Keep your back straight

2. Balance Buzz

3. Ascending lift up

4. Descending lift down

II. Physical Characteristics

a. Trombone and Body (Posture)

i. Do not let the instrument rest on your neck.

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ii. You must control the instrument and not let instrument dictate your

position.

iii. Your head position should always leave the wind passage open.

iv. Posture is an activity not a position. It is constantly in motion.

v. Keep your shoulders straight across.

b. Trombone and the Mind (Psychology)

i. Play through all music in your mind. Really hear at least three bars

in advance in your head.

ii. To play consistently you must practice consistently.

iii. Try to get the percentage of correct playing up.

III. Air

a. General Comments

i. Generally use most of your air so when you breathe again the air

will “leap” into your lungs.

b. Comfort Zone

i. Always try to work in the "comfort zone"" of air.

ii. Using too much air is better than too little.

iii. You will enter the "comfort zone"" sooner with too much air than

with too little air.

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APPENDIX E

STATEMENT BY MONIQUE BUZZARTÉ

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Monique Buzzarté studied with Stuart Dempster from 1977 to 1982. An avid supporter of

contemporary music, Buzzarté has composed, commissioned, and premiered a variety of

works for trombone. She also is certified to teach the meditative improvisation practices

of Deep Listening.


I studied with Stuart Dempster as an undergraduate at the University of

Washington in Seattle, WA from 1977-82. I chose to attend UW specifically in order to

study with Stuart since I wanted to be a new-music trombonist (although I had no idea of

what that actually meant). Almost all of the repertoire I was interested in had either been

commissioned by him, or written for him. His sound (from recordings I'd heard of the

Erickson Ricercare á 5, the Erb In No Strange Land, and the American Sampler album

was released) was utterly beautiful, and his playing was extraordinarily musical. In an-

ongoing correspondence and also when I came up to Seattle from California to meet him

the previous spring, his gentleness (and humor) had been quite evident. He was kind.

Even though I was uncertain about much in my life back then (and still am now), I felt

deep within myself that he was the right person for me to be working with.

As I recall, at that time the majority of his studio were not performance majors,

most were undergraduates, and relatively few appeared to be bitten by the new music

bug. While I was not the most dedicated and diligent of students in terms of practicing

(and was very young, starting college just a few days after I turned 17) I was eager, and

open, and curious, and he shared with me his knowledge of the "contemporary"

techniques I craved so much to learn. Far beyond the teaching of these techniques,

though, was his modeling for me (by him simply being himself) of what being a musician

could mean, both for one's own self and for the world. I experienced how a performer's

integrity and intent could radiate outwards from the stage and how sound - physical,

palatable vibrations - could be healing energy. Most of all, my time in Seattle with Stuart

provided me with a kind of inner foundation that helped me become a more whole

person. In turn, that eventually allowed me to develop more fully as a musician and

trombonist, to begin to realize my creative potential as a composer. Of course, at the

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time I didn't have much of an idea that this was what was happening (!), although I was

fairly sure that in many (most?) ways that for me the trombone was far more of a means

to someplace, rather than an end unto itself. It was only as I grew older that I was able to

realize the extent of what had been transmitted in those years, of just how much I had

absorbed and learned from Stuart, of how deeply supportive and nurturing I found his

presence. I'm reminded of this portion of Chapter 2 of the Tao Te Ching (in the

Mitchell translation): Therefore the Master/ acts without doing anything/ and teaches

without saying anything.

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APPENDIX F

STATEMENT BY DAN WOLCH

110

Dan Wolch was a student of Stuart Dempster‘s from 1987 to 1991.


The following are some reflections on Stuart Dempster. I was officially a student

from my senior year of high school, 1987 until I graduated in 1991. However you never

really stop learning from someone of his caliber, so I still consider myself his student

today. I will always be grateful for his encouragement and mentorship through the years,

and most of all his wonderful sense of humor. I cherish my memories of studying with

Stuart, learning about music and the trombone and having fun doing it.

The thing I remember most about lessons with Stuart is that we were always

laughing. Stu always tried to make things fun, he had many witty and whimsical

remarks. His personal character is very warm and nurturing with a dash of humor thrown

in. He was always trying to draw more out of you, and would give you his honest

opinion, but he would never make a student feel ridiculed. Stuarts focus is a singing,

musical style of playing and a relaxed (my term for physically efficient) technique,

whatever you were working on. He allowed his students to structure their own program,

and we could decide what literature we wanted to work on. He focused his efforts on

drawing your attention to unnecessary tension or inefficient physical habits- or

―autopilot‖ playing, which is always unmusical, boring for the listener, and typically

tense as well.

I remember for a while we had the ―penalty flag‖ a yellow cloth just like a

football penalty flag that Stuart would throw when someone was playing unmusically or

with some bad habit. Stuart do you remember wearing a referee shirt to lessons?

When Stuart was able to help a student undo a bad habit, unexpected things would

happen, often with humorous results. An accented note would come out much louder

than expected, or the player would overshoot a high note and play a note a step or two

higher. Stuart‘s tips helped you unlock capacity, artistic and physical that wasn‘t able to

utilized a minute or two prior. The side effect of that ―unlocking‖ often resulted in a

temporary loss of accuracy as you could now achieve the same effect, but with less effort

than you were used to applying.

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―It sounds as if you‘d rather be sailing‖

One time I remember I was playing through a solo, and Stuart remarked, ―It

sounds as if you‘d rather be sailing. Play again, this time, as though you‘d rather not be

sailing‖. I played again, and the result was much better, a much more interesting

performance. We both observed more resonance in my sound and better intonation.

When you focus on playing musically, your technique also benefits.

―Avoid autopilot‖

I remember Stuart admonished us to avoid playing warm-ups on autopilot. Auto

pilot playing is when your mind is not really on what you are doing. Often you are not

really listening. This is where bad habits can be reinforced and habitual tension can be

introduced, because the player is just going through the motions. To avoid the problem,

add variety and interest to your warm-up routine – but most of all, sing through the horn

no matter what you are playing.

―If you are playing a piece you don‘t like, pretend otherwise‖

A variation on the theme – ―don‘t play as though you‘d rather be sailing‖. If you

are playing a piece that you don‘t particularly like, pretend that you actually really do like

it, and more importantly play it that way, regardless of your personal feelings. It‘s a kind

of mind trick that really works. Stuart pointed out that if you are successful, you might

even change your own opinion. However, you have the option of still not liking the

piece, just don‘t ever play it that way.

―Commit to the music-and to making your entrance‖

I remember some lessons Stuart talking about ―committing‖ – which is about

preparing yourself in the moments before you begin playing. Be musically committed to

your entrance rhythmically and with your breath. Another variation is to relax and trust

yourself to make the entrance. Trust that the note will sound. (Tensing won‘t make it

happen.) It helps avoid a ―false start‖ - starting to play before you are truly ready. Think

in rhythm, breath in rhythm and make your entrance in committed (not hesitating)

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fashion. Another tip, follow through with your entrance (the air needs to keep going).

Think of a golfer and the golf swing – when you look at the best golfers - their swing

―follows through‖. A golf club that is swung correctly makes an arc. The club doesn‘t

stop once it hits the ball, it keeps going and completes the arc. Like the golf swing, your

air needs to follow through for the entire passage. Another way to say it, don‘t ―let up‖ on

your air.

Alexander Technique

I think that Stuart will agree with me that he was strongly influenced by

Alexander technique and a lot his advice about the physical challenges of playing the

trombone come from that perspective. I‘ll recount some things that benefitted me.

Stuart emphasized a relaxed slide arm – relaxed elbow and wrist. Avoid the

tendency to grip hard and slam the slide into the correct position. Keep the arm relaxed.

By maintaining arm flexibility, the player can actually play complex passages more

smoothly and musically-even though it might ―feel‖ and even look as though the arm is

moving slower, its actually moving just as quickly, but more efficiently. Also use

alternate positions when and if they make passages smoother.

Don‘t ever ―work hard‖ to play a difficult passage, but rather ―relax and loosen‖.

The working hard mentality leads to tension (tense arm, tense neck, and tense shoulder).

Strive to make playing trombone seem effortless.

Relaxed deep breath- I spent many hours that first year with Stuart practicing

slow deep breaths. Mentally I focused on the word ―loose‖ as it helped me loosen

tension in my respiratory system. The relaxed and deep breath helps keep the throat

open. I focused on the syllable ―Oh‖ – the O vowel opens your throat.

I remember Stuart having me put my hand on the side of his lower back so I could

feel how he filled up the full length of his lungs. When full, the lungs extend far down

the lower back. You really want to fill them fully. (Ben - ask Stuart about some of the

exercises he uses to help students open up their breathing)

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Musical Approach

Always tailor your playing to the style of the music you are playing. Don‘t be

afraid to take risks, to sound brilliant. Stuart encouraged us to experiment with different

equipment – music has many different styles, so we shouldn‘t take a ―one size fits all‖

approach with our horns. It doesn‘t make sense to use a large bore trombone for all

styles.

Solos by Arthur Pryor –I think Stuart really liked these solos because the

approach is playful and unpresumptuous. He told me once, there‘s a lot of music that

presumes to be important. Pryor‘s solos are ear candy (my term) and don‘t presume to be

anything else. So you can really have fun with them.

In the French Conservatoire pieces – go for a French sound – with vibrato and lots

of rubato. To make rubato effective, you even it out so that over the course of a passage

you come out about even. In other words, steal time (slightly speeding up) at the front of

a passage, then add it back at the end of the phrase. Or add the time in the beginning and

make up the time on the back end.

Hindemith Sonata- push a lot of air through the horn –approach it like an

orchestral excerpt in terms of volume and effect. I remember Stuart really encouraging

me to project sound through the Swashbucklers scherzo of the Hindemith Sonata.

Bordogni etudes – we used these quite a bit to practice achieving a singing style

as well as practicing legato technique. Stuart encouraged us to think of them as an opera

aria and when possible we would play them with piano accompaniment.

Didgeridoo- Stuart encouraged his students to experiment and one opportunity we

all had was to learn to play the Australian didgeridoo. Most of us took the class Stuart

taught. On a sunny spring day, you‘d see Stuart‘s didgeridoo class sitting in the grass out

in the quad. You really have to have an open air passage to play this instrument, plus you

learn circular breathing and simultaneous vocalization while vibrating your lips – skills

that really come in handy if want to take on the solo literature that use those techniques.

There's more to be said about all these topics, but this is what came to mind.

Unfortunately, twenty years does dull the memory a bit. I remember talking about

"Dempster's Laws" - but I don't remember what they specifically were , or if Stuart wrote

them down. I think basically, you broke one of "Dempster's laws" when you played

114

unmusically in your lesson, and you might get a penalty flag - or at least a pretty good

imitation of Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes.

115

APPENDIX G

STATEMENT BY GRETCHEN MCNAMARA

116

Currently the trombone professor at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio, Gretchen

McNamara studied with Stuart Dempster earning a bachelor‘s degree in Music

Performance and Education at the University of Washington.


I‘m Gretchen (Hopper) McNamara. I studied with Stuart for five years at the

University of Washington during college as a double major in Music Performance and

Music Education. I currently teach trombone at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio.

I owe much of my success as an educator and musician, to the musical and technical

strategies I learned from Stuart, and the mentorship he has offered me over the years.

When looking back on my college experience, I remember being one of few

undergraduates at the time, surrounded by many graduate students who came to the

University of Washington specifically to study with Stuart. He had a reputation often

associated with contemporary trombone literature and modern technique which attracted

students from all over the country. What I learned most from him, however, was not

about contemporary trombone literature and techniques, rather the importance of daily

fundamentals practice, good practice strategies for developing consistency, and how to

nurture one‘s musicality.

At the beginning of each lesson we always spent time on fundamentals. It didn‘t

matter whether I had spent a little or a lot of time warming-up beforehand, he was always

very interested in working through every basic fundamental there is to being a successful

trombonist. As expected, there was always plenty of work to do. If something wasn‘t

working well, if there was ―a little noise in the system,‖ or ―garbage in the sound,‖ Stuart

was always interested in figuring it out. He liked to trouble shoot and now I do too. The

practice of trouble shooting, and having that modeled for me has largely contributed to

my approach and success as a music educator. Through this process, Stuart helped me

begin an understanding of the body and what posture means. He would always say,

―Posture is an activity,‖ to promote softness and fluidity in the movement of the large

motor skill required of trombone playing. He was interested in the best way to hold the

horn up with the least amount of physical effort, and of course, balance. Balance between

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your two feet left to right and front to back. I can remember being the weeble-wabble in

lessons. Stuart was, of course, the kid! I would play and he would gently push me one

way or the other to see how relaxed I was and help me come back to center. The

emphasis on fundamentals and the physical aspect of playing has always been fascinating

to me and it remains the first activity with my current students of any age.

Stuart also taught me how to practice well. The efficiency of accurate repetition

was emphasized over the run-through approach or the approach of moving on after

several incorrect repetitions followed by one successful one, the ―I finally got it, now

let‘s move on‖ approach. He used to count the number of times in a row I got a passage

correct. The goal was ten. If I messed up on number eight, well, we started our counting

over again. While it may have been frustrating in the moment, it really taught me how to

―increase my percentages,‖ as Stuart would call it. He also taught me how to ―backwards

practice.‖ Not just simply starting at the end of a piece and working sections in reverse

order, certainly a valid approach. But more specifically, he taught me to isolate the

―problem pitch‖ and work backward, one note at a time, listening for clarity and

consistency in each repetition as the chunks got larger and larger. Knowing how to

practice well and knowing how and what specifically to listen for is so important.

Learning, understanding and putting to practice these types of strategies were intended

help me become ―my own teacher.‖ After all, as he would remind me, I heard myself far

more frequently than he did.

Perhaps the most influential and meaningful aspect of lessons with Stuart had to

do with developing the musical line and creative interpretation of the literature

performed. Stuart wasn‘t interested in dictating how a piece should be played. There were

certain expectations of course, and he was well versed in those, but in terms of musical

development, he would encourage me to use of all of my expressive tools, without

prescribing each detail. I can hear Stuart say, ―Now do it again, but differently this time.‖

He encouraged me to try different dynamic and articulation contrasts and varying degrees

of vibrato. We spent a lot of time on how to make a breath musical by preparing it well

through the use of rubato. All of this experimentation was designed to help me make

decisions about what I liked and didn‘t like, what worked well technically, for me, and

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what didn‘t. Stuart never discouraged a different musical approach if it ultimately fell

with-in the composer‘s intentions and the expectations of the genre.

From basic fundamentals and sound practice strategies to becoming an expressive

artist on the trombone, Stuart was profoundly influential. I didn‘t know what I was

getting myself into when I chose the University of Washington for undergraduate study,

but my time with Stuart transformed me into someone ready to teach and perform as an

individual. There are traceable roots back to Stuart in everything I do professionally and I

am grateful. Stuart has served as a personal and professional mentor over the years and

our teacher-student relationship has softened into one of friendship and mutual respect.

119

APPENDIX H

STATEMENT BY NATHANIEL OXFORD

120

Nathaniel Oxford studied with Stuart Dempster during his undergraduate years at the

University of Washington. One of Dempster‘s fondest memories of Oxford is his

performance of Dempster‘s Caprice, which requires the trombonist to play trombone

while riding a unicycle.


Stuart, my experience in your trombone studio is one I didn't fully value until

years later, specifically because I wasn't mentally prepared to. I always had a lot more

going on than I could handle, and what I learned from you was that it was best to keep

things simple. You never complicated things, you didn't overdramatize, and you kept

your instructional feedback brief and concise. I remember fretting over mouthpieces, top-

lip-versus-bottom-lip ratio, or other physical details; but all you cared about was how the

music sounded when it came out the bell of my trombone. You told me about your own

practice habits in school, and how you played only for as long as you needed to

accomplish what you wanted to in one session. And when I came in for a lesson without

having prepared what I should have, you suggested I do something more valuable with

my time, such as getting a cup of tea. I suppose if I were to sum it all up, what I learned

was to do what you're going to do; don't do what you're not going to do; and do no more

than you need to do, to do what you're going to do. And... don't do it if you're not going

to have a little fun...

121

APPENDIX I

STATEMENT BY JONATHAN PASTERNACK

122

Jonathan Pasternack studied with Stuart Dempster, while earning a doctoral degree in

conducting. He has conducted the London Symphony Orchestra, Oregon Symphony,

National Symphony Orchestra at the Kennedy Center, and the Scottish Chamber

Orchestra, among others.


Stuart Dempster was my trombone teacher at the University of Washington from

1996 to 1999. His musical insight and incredible knowledge about trombone playing and

music in general were great inspirations for me. Most of all, I credit him for having

solved a technical problem that I had thought was intractable: the inconsistency in my

ability to begin a note on the trombone. For about a dozen years before I moved to

Seattle and began my graduate studies with Stuart, I had studied with a number of

capable teachers--including some prominent orchestral trombonists--and had also played

on a professional level in the Boston and New York City areas. Throughout this time, I

had experienced this chronic issue: after taking a proper breath, I was not always able to

start a note, due to some kind of "blockage" in my throat. Although I was able to figure

out various ways of masking this problem, it got in my way enough that I became wary of

taking orchestral auditions or otherwise placing myself in high pressure playing

situations.

I cannot pinpoint the exact time when, as a result of Stuart's creative teaching and

with his great patience and sympathy, I was able to overcome my problem. He used

combinations of various means to approach the issue. Ultimately, we agreed that the

problem stemmed from some sort of psychological block. We surmised that the block

came about because of my excessive anxiety concerning the quality of my sound--I had

developed something of an obsession about playing the perfect note and somehow this

turned into technical sabotage. Stuart's basic objective was to get me to shed this anxiety.

He used different methods to get me to liberate my conservative idea of playing,

including having me switch to bass trombone for some time (I normally played tenor),

utilizing novel breathing exercises, and teaching me about "breath attacks" and directing

123

me use to these almost exclusively for a time. He urged me always to "play with

abandon," partially in an attempt to free me of my overly cerebral approach to trombone

playing (an approach which had led me to an intellectual over-determination of my

playing and, thus, my articulation dysfunction). After weeks of working on this, Stuart

triggered what led to our breakthrough, when he looked at me intensely and said, "I hope

you realize we are in this together." Stuart's careful and totally committed work with me

led eventually to our overcoming my years-old psychological stumbling block. We later

also discovered that the physical mechanism involved in my problem was related to the

"Valsalva maneuver," the build up of air pressure against the glottis.

As a direct result of my studies with Stuart Dempster, I am now able to play the

trombone with greater freedom than I had ever experienced in my nearly thirty years on

the instrument. As simple as it sounds, I was once unable to control fully the start of a

single note; this psychological/physical block is completely absent now and I have

Stuart's dedication and creative pedagogy to thank. Getting over what I had assumed was

an insoluble problem had an interesting effect on my conducting (an activity which is

now central to my professional life), in that I felt capable of tackling any difficult

situation, inspired as I was by Stuart Dempster's unique combination of total

commitment, creative analysis, perseverance and out-of-the-box experimentation--not to

mention Stuart's contagious optimism. Playing or conducting in a manner that is anything

less than "with abandon" is now unthinkable!

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APPENDIX J

LIST OF COMMISSIONS AND DEDICATIONS

125

Note: The following list of commissions and dedications written for Stuart Dempster was

provided by Mr. Dempster during the course of our correspondence. All correspondence

and statements are copied as received.

COMMISSIONS

Luciano Berio Sequenza V for Trombone Solo (1966)-Universal

Neely Bruce Grand Duo for Trombone and Piano (1971)

Barney Childs Music for Trombone and Piano (1966)-ACA

Donald Erb "...and then, toward the end..." for Trombone and Tape

(1971)

Donald Erb Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra (1976)-Presser

Robert Erickson General Speech for Solo Trombone (1969)-Smith

Robert Erickson Ricercare á 5 for Trombones (1966)-Smith

Andrew Imbrie Fancy for Five for Trombones (1972)

Andrew Imbrie Three Sketches for Trombone and Piano (1967)-Shawnee

Ben Johnston One Man for Trombonist and Percussion (1967 & 1972)-

Media

Ernst Krenek Five Pieces for Trombone and Piano (1967)-Bärenreiter

Edwin London Highlights (1973) from the Carnivore of Uranus (1972) for

Trombone and Tape

Robert Moran Bombardments No. 4 for Trombone and Tape (1964 &

1968)

Pauline Oliveros Teach Yourself to Fly, original version for Five Trombones

or Trombone and Tape (1971)-Deep Listening

Pauline Oliveros Theater Piece (In the Garden) for Trombone Player and

Tape (1966)-Deep Listening

William O. Smith Janus for Trombone and Large Jazz Ensemble (1977)

William O. Smith Session for Solo Trombone (1979)-Ravenna

Robert Suderburg Night Set (Chamber Music III) for Trombone and Piano

(1971)-Presser

126

Raymond Wilding-White Encores for Stu for Trombone and various combinations

(1970)

DEDICATIONS

William Bergsma Blatant Hypotheses for Trombone and Percussion (1977)-

Galaxy

Hal Budd Chaste, No Straighter for Trombone and Tape (1969)

Hal Budd "...only three clouds..." for Five Trombones (1969)

Conrad DeJong Aanraking (Contact) for Solo Trombone (1969)-Schirmer

Rob du Bois Solo for a Sliding Trombone (1968)-Donemus

Donald Erb In No Strange Land for Trombone, Contrabass, and Tape

(1968)

Robert Hughes Anagnorisis, a Ballet for Trombone and Garden Hose,

Percussion and Solo Dancer (1964)

Richard Karpen Anterior View of an Interior with Reclining Trombonist:

The Conservation of Energy (2003)

David Mahler Dempster's Fantasy on an American Theme for Trombone

and Tape (1985)

Elliott Schwartz Options I for Trombone Alone or with Tape or Percussion

or Both (1970)-Media

Elliott Schwartz Signals for Trombone and Contrabass (1966)-Media

William O. Smith Encounter for Clarinet and Trombone (1970)-Ravenna

William O. Smith Eye Music for Clarinet and Trombone (1985)-Ravenna

William O. Smith Jazz Set for Clarinet and Trombone (1982)-Ravenna

William O. Smith Quadrogram for Clarinet, Percussion, Piano, and Trombone

(1970)-Ravenna

William O. Smith Three for Dancer, Soprano, Clarinet, and Trombone

(1975)-Ravenna

William O. Smith Webster's Story for Soprano, Clarinet, and Trombone

(1978)-Ravenna

127

Robert Suderburg Breath and Circuses for Singer, Piano, and Trombone

(1991)-commissioned by the University of Washington

Contemporary Group

Raymond Wilding-White Whatzit No. 6 for Trombone and Tape (1970)

Paul Zonn Justice Variations for Trombone, Actor, Four Flutes, and

Bass Drum with Optional Tape, Films, and/or Slides (1971)

128

APPENDIX K

HUMAN SUBJECTS REVIEW BOARD

EXEMPTION

129

From: Human Subjects <[email protected]>

Date: Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Subject: Human Subjects Staff Review

To:

Human Subjects Application - For Full IRB and Expedited Exempt Review

PI Name: William Benjamin McIlwain

Project Title: Select Contributions and Commissions in Solo Trombone Repertoire By

Trombonist Innovator and Pioneer: Stuart Dempster

HSC Number: 2009.3783

Your application has been received by our office. Upon review, it has been determined

that your protocol is an oral history, which in general, does not fit the definition of

"research" pursuant to the federal regulations governing the protection of research

subjects. Please be mindful that there may be other requirements such as releases,

copyright issues, etc. that may impact your oral history endeavor, but are beyond the

purview of this office.

130

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Art of States, "General speech (1969)." http://artofthestates.org/cgi-bin/piece.pl?pid=11

(accessed March 26, 2010).

Baker, Buddy. ―Why? How about Who, Where, What, When?-The Development of

Berio‘s Sequenza.‖International Trombone Journal 22, no.2 (Spring, 1994): 30-

33.

Basart, Ann P. and Martin Brody. ―Imbrie, Andrew.‖ Grove Music Online. 2003.

http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com.proxy.lib.fsu.edu/subscriber

/article/grove/music/13728 (accessed June 13, 2010).

Beckerman, Michael. ―Ernst Krenek.‖ The Orel Foundation. http://orelfoundation

.org/index .php/composers/article/ernst_krenek (accessed June 29, 2010).

Bernstein, David W. ―The San Francisco Tape Music Center: Emerging Art Forms and

The American Counterculture, 1961-1966.‖ In The San Francisco Tape Music

Center: 1960s Counterculture and the Avant-Garde, edited by David W.

Bernstein, 5-14. Berkeley and Los Angeles, California: University of California

Press, 2008.

Bowles, Garrett. "Krenek, Ernst." Grove Music Online, 2003. http://www.oxfordmusic

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BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH

William Benjamin McIlwain joined the faculty of The University of Southern

Mississippi in the fall of 2010. He holds degrees from Middle Tennessee State

University (B.M.), Manhattan School of Music (M.M.) and The Florida State University

(D.M.). In addition to USM, Dr. McIlwain has also taught at Brentwood Academy,

MTSU, and FSU.

An active freelance musician, Dr. McIlwain has performed with such artists as

Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder, Peter Erskin, Rufus Reid, The Impressions,

Syndicate of Soul, Denver & The Mile High Orchestra and Joey Richey. Past

performances include performing with the Nashville Symphony (TN), the Huntsville

Symphony Orchestra (AL), the Chattanooga Symphony (TN), Murfreesboro

Philharmonic Orchestra (TN), Tallahassee Symphony Orchestra (FL) and performing on

alto trombone with the Nashville Chamber Orchestra in the opening season of the new

Schermerhorn Symphony Center in Nashville, Tennessee. In 2007, Dr. McIlwain

performed as a member of the "Internationally Recognized, Award-Winning" Trombone

Quartet: TROMBOTEAM! on their Summer Tour of Michigan, Tennessee, and Illinois.

Also, his recording credits include performing tenor and bass trombones on Mandisa's

(former American Idol contestant) Christmas Joy album and various projects in progress

with Orchestra Nashville.

In 2003 Dr. McIlwain was featured as a soloist with the Middle Tennessee State

University Wind Ensemble as winner of the 2002 Solo Artist Competition. An avid

supporter of modern music, Dr. McIlwain has performed Berio‘s Sequenza V, Crespo's

Improvisation No. 1, Rabe‘s Basta, Rush's Rebellion, Suderburg‘s Chamber Music III:

Night Set, and premiered Whaley‘s Delirium and Burton's The Voice, both written for

him.

At USM, Dr. McIlwain directs all aspects of the trombone studio including the

USM Trombone Choir and Hub Bones (jazz trombone ensemble). He is also a member

of the Southern Arts Brass Quintet, the faculty brass quintet of USM. His primary

teachers have included Drs. David Loucky, Per Brevig and John Drew. In addition, he

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has participated in master classes with many of the world's leading trombonists, including

Joseph Alessi, David Finlayson, James Markey, and Steve Norrell.

As a Presidential University Fellow at Florida State University, Dr. McIlwain was

the first doctoral trombone student and one of two in the entire College of Music at FSU

to ever receive this honor.

mcilwain, william b. - select contributions and commissions in solo trombone repertoire by...

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