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Meeting Transcript Provided By Public Resources

August 13, 2011

Chairman Mann: Good morning, folks. I apologize for the tardiness of our kickoff here. I want to welcome some of our out-of-town guests. We are pleased to have everybody here. The one I hope is here is pastor Wes Olds. There you are. Welcome back, pastor.

We begin each of our meetings with an invocation. If you join me standing and remain standing for the pledge.

Let us pray. Almighty god we thank you for the gift of this day.

We thank you for the gift of your love, your presence, and your peace. We thank you today for the gift of freedom, the gift that we can assemble in such a way

today as we are right now. God, we lift up the concerns of our nation, our world, our community to you. We pray for those that are hurting and serving our country we pray your peace would be

known by them on this day. Lord, today is a gift and yet a sacred trust.

We pray the responsibilities given to each of us here today that we would be faithful to the task you have called us to do.

That we would be led by you. That we would seek your wisdom and conduct our manners in a way that puts a smile on your face, we know the desire to please you toes in fact please you.

We thank you for including us in your love and your grace. Amen.

Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Chairman Mann: Thank you and be seated. Thank you, pastor Olds, for that uplifting message for us this morning.

Pastor Olds is from the grace united Methodist church in the cape. We welcome you to this side of the river any time, frequently.

Thank you.

Chairman Mann: We have ceremonial resolutions to take up at this time. Our recap indicates there is one that was not listed in our agenda.

Both of those will be handled by Commissioner Judah.



Commissioner Judah: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm honored to have an opportunity to recognize a woman in this community that has

shown tremendous energy, compassion, tremendously bright lady who has given a lot to enhance the lives of so many in Lee County and throughout southwest Florida for that

matter. Jackie Figueroa is a transformational figure not just in the Hispanic community which has been fuming but literally upgrading the entire county. There are a number of individuals that would like to have a time to comment briefly in introducing Jackie Figueroa

before I have an opportunity to read the resolution. With the indulgence of the board I would like to call Bobby Perez to the podium.

Chairman Mann: Certainly.

Commissioner Judah: He will be followed by Charlie Flores.

Good morning, everyone. I would like to thank the commissioners for having us here today. I would like to call up the members of the news organization.

Hack, Hispanic American citizens council starting with our president Suarez and vice-president Charlie Flores and director pastor Torres and director pastor Lecha.

Commissioner Judah: Good morning.

Mr. Flores may now take the floor.

Commissioner Judah: Thank you, Mr. Perez.

Thank you kindly. Thank you for giving us the time. Hack is a brand new organization which you all should

have received presentations to our swearing in ceremony tonight. You are invited, it's open to the public at 6:30. At Israel Suarez all hall at Ortiz and palm beach Boulevard.

Bobby Perez is on the board. We're trying to figure out what he does because he is on the board. But you are all invited tonight. We'll have a swearing in, a dinner. You are our guest. To the public, everyone please come and join us tonight.

It's an organization of volunteers. Our community is roughly 100,000 people in Lee County. It goes from Cape Coral to Bonita to Lehigh. It's everywhere.

We are trying to be the voice for that community. Each time we -- I mean, I've got three pastors on the board. They want to do everything for everybody. Our mission statement is extremely large. For your interest and politically what we want to

do is educate our community to get them to register to vote. We also want to have town meeting time forums where you can address our community,

where you can listen to their problems and issues and give you the opportunity to introduce yourself to our community, different groups and let them know who you are. For the next year, the upcoming election you will be given invitations to have town hall

meetings, address our groups. We will be all over the county and we hope you support us in the future. Hopefully we'll see you tonight. Now Dr. Suarez.

My respect to chairman, my respect to the Board of County Commissioners. By respect to the people that are here to try to deal with this matter.



We are here to recognize the person that carry a portfolio helping the community in the area.

Every year we select a person that make a difference. And I feel so happy knowing in the Spanish community we have so many key persons that

do so much and one is Jackie Figueroa. It is my honor and my respect to present to you Jackie Figueroa.

[Applause]

Commissioner Judah: Jackie, good morning. If you would allow me I have the privilege on behalf of the board to read the resolution that reads as follows. Jackie Figueroa emigrated to the United States from Cuba with her

parents when she was 16 years old and attended the school of journalism at Florida university and acted as a communication bridge between her citizens and the world.

She has hosted several television programs since 2006, whereas Ms. Figueroa is an active volunteer in our community, serving for the national chapter of the journalists and southwest Florida crimestoppers, a member of Hodges university institute and an official

spokesperson for the united way of lee county. Whereas Ms. Figueroa has provided useful information to the Hispanic community in

southwest Florida in an ongoing effort for this significant and growing population. Be it resolved by Lee County Florida on behalf of the citizens of Lee County we honor Jackie

Figueroa for her hard work, accomplishments and outstanding commitment to the people of southwest Florida. Duly executed this day signed by the chairman of the Board of County Commissioners Frank Mann.

Thank you.

Thank you. [Applause]

[Speaking Spanish]

Chairman Mann: You can come around. A perfect kodak moment.

If we could have the hack committee step forward.

Commissioner Judah: Jackie, we would like to hear a few words from you, please.

[Applause]

Good morning. One more time. I would like to thank the Lee County commissioner Manning commissioner Brian Bigelow, commissioner ray Judah who has been a good friend through the years. Commissioner Tammy hall and commissioner Frank Mann and also Hispanic

American citizen council and Mr. Suarez who recommended me for this honor. When I came from Cuba with my parents and little brothers I didn't know I would be a

journalist let alone be on TV every day but I quickly learned with a lot of hard work and dedication in this great country everything is possible. For that I am grateful too.



But it wasn't all hard work. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for so many people. My mom and dad who always gave me encouragement and guidance and my G.M. Chris

Collins who gives me the opportunity to inform our community on a daily basis. My friends with me today. My husband who has always supported me in my career and

especially the viewers, our viewers. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. Thank you. I am so honored to receive this recognition. Thank you again.

Commissioner Judah: Thank you, Jackie.

[Applause]

Commissioner Judah: Thank you, Jackie and Mr. Chair. The next, if I could, equally impressive is multicultural center of southwest Florida with

Leonardo Garcia and Mr. Jim white having actually found and established the program that has provided literally thousands of school children backpacks and school supplies for the last 12 years. At this point in time I would ask Mr. Leonardo Garcia and Connie Williams,

who has been a tremendous partner and Ron and pat Morgan, other partners in this overall effort with the backpack giveaway. If they could step forward I would like an opportunity to

read the resolution. Good morning, folks. Pleasure to have you here. The resolution reads whereas for the past 12 years the multicultural center of southwest

Florida incorporated have provided over 25,000 Lee County school students with new backpacks and school supplies.

This annual program the big backpack event allow families to send their children to school on an even footing with their classmates. It would not be accomplished without the work of

many, many dedicated volunteers. Mr. Garcia has done a phenomenal job year in and year out getting volunteers to help. We would like to recognize they can Ms. Connie Williams has served as event chair for six years. Mr. Ron Morgan has donated hundreds of hours as chair

of the committee for eight years and Mr. Pat Morgan has donated hundreds of hours serving as chair of the church outreach committee for eight years.

Be it resolved that we do hereby extend our appreciation to them. For their passion and commitment to making a difference in academy lives in our future leaders. This 13th day of September signed by the Board of County Commissioners Frank

Mann. I have several resolutions I would like to turn them over to you.

[Applause] Reporter: Do you want to pull those out and show the resolution?

Thank you.

[Applause] Good morning.

We are honored to be here today especially when I saw the presentation to Jackie Figueroa. A great leader when it comes to the media and the Hispanic community and learning of the

transformation of cities and council headed by Dr. Suarez. Lee County needs good news as we all do especially beginning this Thursday of the Hispanic heritage month.



It's a great week for the Hispanic community and American community altogether. I would like to thank Connie, Ron, and pat for so many years of service to tsunami

thousands of children in our community. Thanks to them we didn't know when we started with 75 kids that today we would be

serving 25,000 kids with school supplies, back to school information, backpacks. I thank them for doing that. I would like to call Connie to say -- Connie to say a few words.

I knew he was going to do this. Leonardo Garcia, I want to thank you first of all.

It was Leonardo who brought me into this multicultural center almost 12 years ago. It was his dream. I attended the first event where 75 students received free backpacks and school supplies for back to school. And he asked what can you do, Connie.

He knows me well enough to know that small is not my style. With the amount of kids in this community who have true needs and the economy that's

taken a turn over the last few years we have reached out to 2100, on average 2500 kids per year for the last several years.

Our numbers have increased on the amount of giving that this organization under Leonardo's leadership has been able to serve.

It's been my honor to be project chair to help them take it to that level but it's not me, myself, and I it's incredible hundreds of volunteers who are very dedicated with the

Leonardo's leadership and mine and pat and Ron have been the two that have been with us since day one, just about day one, the heart and soul of the group that just keeps doing this and keeps on giving.

I know even though they are retiring and I'm taking this a little bit of a secondary role for

this next year, they know that they always have our support. The children in our community will always have our support. As I step down as project chair after 11, 12 years I'll stay very involved with them to help

them make sure they reach that goal and help more kids in our community. I thank you, all the commissioners, Tammy hall, John Manning, Frank Mann and you a

lowing us to continue to serve those families and kids. Thank you.

[Applause]

They don't like to talk. They like to give the support. That's important.

Thank you all very much. [Applause]

Commissioner Judah: Thank you, Mr. Chair. A great way to start the today.

Chairman Mann: A joyful way to start the day and it's my open to call on the representatives of the three organizations, sons of the American revolution, if you guys

would step forward at this time. The daughters of the American revolution, and the representative of the children of the American revolution.



We are so proud to have you guys back on this very important day where we speak to an honor the United States constitution and its establishment.

Reverend moody, thank you for bringing your crew in here this morning. I'll let you introduce them later.

For now it's my honor to read the resolution and proclamation by your county commission. Whereas 224 years ago this September 17th, delegates to the constitutional convention in

Philadelphia signed one of the most enduring documents in history, the constitution of the United States of America.

And whereas, it is vital that all citizens fully understand the provisions, principles and meaning of the constitution in order to effectively support, preserve and defend it against

encroachment and whereas the independence and freedom guaranteed by this cornerstone of the American system of self-government should be celebrated by appropriate

ceremonies and activities during constitution week as designated by proclamation by the president of the United States in accordance with the joint resolution of Congress February 29th, 1952 and again by joint resolution on August 2, 1956.

Now therefore be it resolved that the county commission of Lee County Florida does hereby

low claim September 17th, 2011 citizenship day and constitution week in Lee County. We encourage civic, social and educational organizations including the Calusa chapter, the

southwest Florida chapters of the daughters of the American revolution and the children of the American revolution and all veterans organizations to conduct ceremonies and programs that celebrate our constitution and reaffirm our rights and responsibilities as

citizens of the United States of America.

I was proud to sign this document not only as the chairman of the county commission but as a proud member and compatriot of sons of the American revolution. We're so proud of the work you guys do in honoring our forefathers and the constitution of

the United States of America. Welcome.

[Applause]

Somebody hold that in the middle.

Commissioner Judah: Thanks for being here. Chairman Mann: Reverend moody if you would pleasure with us a word or two.

Yes.

We thank you for allowing us to be here and we thank you for this proclamation. We appreciate the work that you do as many of you know as a member of the sons of the American revolution or daughters of the American revolution or children of the American

revolution we are direct descendents of those who founded the country and participated in the American revolution and develop the constitution of the United States.

This is an important part of our work.



In each of our meetings we reaffirm our faith in our constitutional Republic and solemnly

swear to defend against all foes our constitution. It is with great pleasure we are here before you doing the constitutional work of our nation.

I'm going to ask that each of the ladies with your permission and I'll start with mine each of us will introduce ourselves and tell what our positions are with the organization and then we'll let you get on with your important work.

First I just want to give a quick quote from the person who presided over the constitutional

convention when he said, it is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. So we encourage you to rightly govern as you move forward with your work as a commission today. I'm Randy moody president and chaplain for the American sons of the

American revolution.

I'm frequently known as ginger. I've the past regent of the Caloosahatchee chapter. I'm president of the great southwest Florida regents council.

I am Janet lee burg of daughters of the American revolution and vice-president of the great

southwest Florida's regents council. I'm Donna Matthews the senior society president of the children of the American revolution.

Chairman Mann: So pleased to have you here this morning. Keep up your good work in such an important mission.

Thank you.

[Applause] Chairman Mann: Everybody knows each other's family here.

We're catching up.

Chairman Mann: Would you call commissioner Bigelow, he has more to follow up with. By way of additional happy events with which we begin our morning, I want to welcome back colonel Pantano from the army corps of engineers.

We appreciated your presentation here last year and on behalf of all of us thank you especially for the particular focus you have brought to your service to southwest Florida

and Lee County in particular and the recognition that we are tied to interest gradually with everything the corps does. We are pleased to hear from you your report for 2011.

Good morning. Thank you.

I have to point out a dynamic. If you notice your audience is all to the back. I'm not sure what that is all about. They either want to escape or they are intimidated by the commissioners.

Chairman Mann: It's like church.

They all do it. Lee County is kind of difficult to ignore.



My approach is to be confrontational and confront things head-on in a good way in good spirit.

All commissioners have been excellent in that regard, communicative and helpful as I try to

do my duties for this state, this country I'm going to get into some things I know you want to talk about in a minute but I want to do a couple introductions and recognize things at the 30,000 foot level.

I have a few corps folks with me in the back, Mr. David hobby and Mr. Steve Sullivan.

Dave is our chief regulator. Our senior civilian in the district now meaning the employees in our district report to him. He's running things. He's the man at the center of that and the reason he's doing that is because he's a leader.

And Steve is our chief down here, but his additional duty as well is he's kind of my senior management executive civilian to try to cover a lot of other things in addition to Carl

Kinnard. I didn't bring them here just because of their pretty faces but my hope is some people have

will beat them up and give them the help and support you need for the county. Please pin them down whenever you see appropriate so they can do their jobs.

I wanted to come in for a second at 30,000 feet and talk, I guess, we saw and felt what was coming with our nation for the state of Florida and the counties quite a while ago.

I started a program in the district September of last year, we called it the business operations improvement program but quickly came in and realized we have to cut our costs and put more dollars to the projects. We have done that, we have done a lot of things.

To look closely we have traps formed and reorganized like a lot of the entities here south Florida management district and the like that's resulted in efficient sees, cost savings to put

dollars to bear on the projects. You federal taxpayers commit resources to the Congress to put them to the projects. It's all about the projects and getting the work done not the other things that absorb it sometimes. Some of those are necessities.

What I'm sharing is I am committed to that. The corps is no different than anybody else.

We're trying to stay ahead of the storm. My belief is the best time to address those things is when you are not in a storm. We have tried to be pro-active to that end because we can, not because we have to be and it's the right thing to do, bottom line.

So we have done that and I think we are a better organization. I won't bore you with what we have done.

Steve's position is part of it but we have made changes in our organization to try to streamline reaction to that. Do the right thing. I also want to point out this is a period of

tremendous challenge in lots of ways. I'm sure at the county level you see it every day. I'm trying to view that affirmatively. All challenges present opportunities to do things we

otherwise might not because we didn't have to or we didn't need to or whatnot. We're trying to take that same approach in the corps as we go after things too. This is a difficult situation to be in. What can we do with it in a positive sense to transform

this challenge into something that's going to benefit us in the long run. I'll talk about that as I go through my presentation today. I want to briefly touch on

Everglades. When I came into this job the stars were perfectly aligned and Everglades had taken on a momentum not seen before. All the effort from the previous decade came to roost and we saw some amazing things start to happen and had some phenomenal leaders



up the vertical chain all the way down aligned perfectly. You started to see Everglades restoration projects go into the ground and a year 1/2

forward, two years now, go drive around in your area and you can see work being done throughout southwest Florida.

The bridge is under construction on Tamiiami trail and so on and so forth. My big concern, I'm at the point now I have about a year left in this job.

Mr. Hobby wishes it was a month some days but I have about a year left in this job. So my to-do list is I'm looking hard at what is it I want and need to get done in my

capacity in the next year. One of the things that concerns me most is the future of the Everglades restoration.

A challenge we face is getting the next generation of projects in the process so that it can get to Congress to be authorized and appropriated.

The Hopper is starting to run dry. I'm fraud to say it's moving forward in large part because south Florida water management compromised.

We have c-44 to break ground on for your brothers and sisters on the other coast and the

one of more interest to you is c-43. We have done our part at this point. We need it sitting there for Congress to authorize when that time comes.

So that part is done. But we have to get after the next generation of projects which gets to the heart of the matter as I look at the faces up here. I know things they are passionate about, that's being able to move the water south.

When it comes down to it it's the white el fantastic in the room. You have to get to points south of lake Okeechobee and put through and get the water

being moved south. We have a bridge being built to put water under it.

There is a lot of work that has to be done in the planning phase and none of that moves quickly. We have to maintain the momentum. There's lots of challenges with that.

You know it better than I do with litigation, dangerous species, water quality, nutrients and the list of things. None of it is easy.

We have been working on the margins because we have to get something done. We've been working on the margins, doing projects that are important, but we have to

jump boot thick of it which is the central Everglades. I'm encouraged for the first time in a few months that's getting close to happening. Because I think, again, the state is showing a spirit and cooperation to get us there.

The coming weeks will tell the truth. We have leaned as far forward as we can. To set conditions to do it. We all want to. We just got to get the rest of it to come along.

I'm encouraged. We're not there yet but I'm encouraged that may happen before I take this hat off and move to another job.

OK. With that I want to transition to obviously something I know you care deeply about Herbert

Hoover dike in Okechobee. I have lots of slides. I have a couple I want to draw you into and so I'll flip to them. Let me talk about Herbert Hoover dike first. Construction is ongoing.



Three world-class contractors are working on the cutoff wall doing great work and we're proceeding steadily with the cutoff wall construction. The new ingredient is going after the

culverts that ten trait that dike. There's 32. Four need to go away. They are no longer used or needed and the remaining need to be rehabilitated.

I was telling Commissioner Judah these are not culverts like you think of on county roads. They penetrate the heart of the dike into the lake.

As soon as you open them up you are into a situation that takes time to do it right and you have to be careful. During the period it's opened up it's a risk.

These are expensive efforts to do this. We have to maintain the sanctity of the dike when we do it. You will see massive construction to occur and the good news is we are imminent as in days in awarding the first round of those to get those started.

What we realized was that's a key component to the dike. It's a vulnerability. There are penetrations through the dike. A lot of these are rusted corrugated metal culverts

that need to be replaced. We need to get at it. We'll get that started and start seeing some work over time. I've shared this before where you will see the corps working in areas other than the south-southeast.

We're going after culverts and other sections of the dike not commonly in that region where

you see us working. This slide takes you to the cutoff wall construction that's been completed. We eliminated one portion of a large quarry a threat to us against the dike and

we are after the other portion of that quarry to we can make that go away because that is a vulnerability and the normal things we do with the vegetation and the like. This talks about the culvert, what I was tell you about. I won't get into a lot of detail here.

You can see the timelines and how we are packaging these and going after them in the next few years. 28 culvert replacements and four removals.

We have one culvert being removed right now c-14, over on the southeast side of the lake. That one need to come out. We'll work through that. Very intense sieve. This is major construction, a year or more to do each of them. This is not a simple task.

It will take us some time to do it right. We are working through the reach one cutoff wall. As you look at the dike in 2,000 when we did the major rehab report on the dike we

determine the cutoff wall construction was the way to go that pep traits from 50 to 80 feet through that dike.

It's sent to curb the seepage through the dike. It was built over a number of years and the way we built it then we would never build it

today. There's petition Moss in -- peat Moss in but that was the method at the time. That began in 2000, we did that and the challenge we have now as we look at this program to address all these dams that are in jeopardy around the country, you have a pot of

money that's grown a little bit up to $1.5 billion last time I checked and 16 or 17 mazes in the country is fighting for the pot and Florida is one of the big once because of Herbert

Hoover dike. The difference between us and everybody else is none of these other dams are like us. Some people would argue Herbert Hoover dike isn't really a dam but the fact is it is a dam for our purposes. Up like the rest, a hillside a dam in the midwest is your

traditional thought of a dam. This is a giant soup pole, much different, very unique with its own requirements. We're working on the cutoff wall construction.

Can we do it in a more coast-effective way that's been proposed to us. It's costing $8 to $10 million a mile now for the cutoff wall. Can you do it cheaper?



There are methods that allow water to penetrate through the dike and we get into engineering talk and the answer is I don't know.

We'll initiate a pilot study to make sure we're making the best use of taxpayer dollars. We're not going to slow down or stop construction on the dike to do that.

That's in addition to. We'll see what the outcome of that is as we go through. Looking down the slide you see the pilot test approval 2011-2015. That's the wide window that will occur.

I know you probably saw news articles about the corps being on hiatus, moratorium I think

is the word he used on cutoff wall construction. We had a discussion about that. My concern is our process would have -- the process being completed putting us in an interim time-out as we try to decide if that is the right method

or not and the answer is that won't happen. We have enough culvert work to keep us busy always. I could use all my money just for the culverts quickly and I believe we have to

spread it around. I'm not going to accept the bureaucratic answer that the cutoff wall is going to come to a stop.

We have taken up that fight. It's our internal bureaucracy we have to work through.

We have a risk management center in Denver, expert looking at it through their stove pipe but from Florida's standpoint you have things to be considered here, ecological, social

impacts, economic and the like. It's not so simple as stop and let us look at this report and let us make a situation. That's not an option. As long as I'm in this job I won't let that happen. But that's what that was all about. OK.

This slide, I think some of you have seen it before.

It's interesting depending who you show the slide to, the one not up for debate is the one of the far left Herbert Hoover public health and safety. For the corps that's number one, no debate whatsoever. As you move across the slide there depending who you talk to will

determine what they think is two, three, four, five, six priority. It's not represented in any other priority other than the Herbert Hoover dike portion but

there is a great debate about what comes next, colonel. I have made decision in the past and you can see the controversy that comes, I think many

leaders in the state of Florida Koppel you consumptive water supply is number two. I think if you talked to folks concerned about the ecol gee and the environment they would

tell you lake ecology is number two. And I imagine there's many people here in this county that care about that estuary and

that river and they would say that is number two because of the impact to the economy here. I offer that up because there's lots of interest and stakeholders here and that is the

debate, what is the second priority. From the corps standpoint it's about public health and safety. I won't make any decisions that jeopardize that ever. From that forward that becomes the great negotiation and compromise as to what is

important and what we can manage.

I want to take a couple minutes now to talk about where we're at with the lake. I'm going to be the doom and gloom guy for a second. I think when it started raining down here some folks decided the drought was over.



It's not. If we have watched what's happened in Texas over the last month or so in my opinion that

could be Florida some day if we're not careful. That lake is way low.

It's about 10.83 feet today putting it three feet and change below where it was last year that wasn't optimum. We're pushing a foot or so below in precipitation.

We're coming out of the end of the wet season now quickly and mother nature has not blessed us with that great tropical storm we needed at the right place to put the water yet.

I keep praying I could get the perfect storm landing at the perfect place not jeopardizing homes or lives and dump water on the state for two weeks steady. That's what we need, weeks of rain in order to get this back up to where it needs to go.

If you watch a lot of the rain that's occurred, you end up with a lot of flash flooding because the ground is so dry.

It's ability to saturate and get through is limited. So these rainfalls although they seem intensive it's not the volume and intensity we need. We need to get back to where we need to be right now.

That concerns me a lot.

I'm going to go forward to this slide which I think tells the best story. This slide.

I love this slide. If you take a look at the bottom, the very bottom of the chart there midway across you see the blue line creeping up and down since about June.

Then you see it turns to lime Green with projections in it. I have had our team do those projections.

I can't fly the plane blind. I have to have a sense where we're headed. They have done the optimistic and less optimistic approach.

The key point is at no point do I think we'll come out of the water shortage ban this year. It's not going to happen.

Which means in terms of the colonel having authorities I have known. Zippo. It's with the state.

In the water shortage ban the corps is out. Through the great debate last year we were in the beneficial use ban and the corps had

discretion to make decisions on competing interests and stakeholders. Fact is we have to forward pump out of the lake before the calendar year is over. It's just a matter of time before the pumps go back in.

101/2 is the magic number for that typically and we're not much positive as I told you. 10.8 and some change.

It's going to be a rough ride into the dry season. If we get an extremely dry season or a normal dry season I'll contend it will be a very long, rough winter for all of us.

And you know, I will, part of the reason I wanted to talk about it today is I want to get in

front of this and hope people realize how desperate the situation is in terms of the water. It's bad. We've been in a drought now four years, five years, whatever, but a sustained drought.



That lake is real low and the bottom line is you haven't got the precipitation you need to get it back there. There's some people that would surmise that the corps caused the

drought. That dumb colonel in Jacksonville let the later out of the lake, destroyed the estuaries and so on and so forth. That's an argument I guess you can make.

I would tell you because you don't have any choice. Because you don't have the ability to store it in the like some would like to because of the

sanctity of the dike in its condition, the ecology of the lake factors in too. You don't have the ability to send it south and you don't have storage elsewhere.

At the end of the day you have to make decisions about water and yeah, I had our team do back and armchair quarterback that period where the water was going out the Caloosahatchee and said how stupid were we.

The answer was yeah, we can second guess it all day long but at the end we would still be

where we are at. We were going to end up there anyway. Just how quickly we got there. When you sit there trying to anticipate precipitation and storm events and the like, you look to see where we were on that line on the top and the peaks and what not and what

the dike can take in terms of risk, you got to make decisions so we did. Again I'm armchair quarterback them all day long but at the end of the day you make the

best decisions you can based on the predictions you have. Frankly at the end of the day it doesn't matter because would you end up here anyway. It's just a question of how quickly

we got there. One of the challenges with the lake and I was talking to a couple commissioners offline about this, I bring this up, I don't always get a favorable reaction but part of is this conservation.

The corps can't engineer us out of all these problems. Conservation is at the center of this.

That can be a dirty word depending on your perspective. It doesn't mean not taking the water you need to do what you need to do with the water. It means being conservative with the water and make sure it goes to the best use in the

priority-- priority that it needs to. A lot goes to landscape irrigation. This county is one of the better ones that doesn't do that. We dump a lot of water on

landscape irrigation. If you have a golf course that's brown people probably don't want to play golf on it, but there is a lot in my opinion that could be done to conserve this water. Water restrictions don't solve the problem because without enforcement they are

meaningless.

We saw that as we came out of that last drought period last winter and early fall, early spring. You can put all the restrictions in place you want but it's the open system to comply. There has to be enforcement and that's not popular meaning you have sheriffs,

people out there in aircraft taking an active approach to try to put restrictions in place and hold people accountable to the standards. I can't solve that. This gets into the debate of

what is the corpse' role. It's an interesting debate. The water in that lake belongs to the state of Florida. No debate in my mind about that whatsoever. The dike that surrounds it belongs to the Federal Government however.

By virtue of the Federal Government we have a responsibility for that dike and we control the structure that controls that water.

That's where our friction occurs. As we try to manage that in the best ways possible.



So, that's a difficult task as you have all seen in the past. I guess the point I want to leave you with their look at the green lines as the projects but

none of them puts you above that red line and that's a really bad place to be. So I think there's going to be a lot of public debate, a lot of stuff in the media and all kinds

of things are going to start drumming up as we get to November, December. Commissioners will call me and give me a good, deserved beating as issued receive. But at the end of the day we're going to be there and there's not going to be a whole lot

I'm going to be able to do it.

That's just unfortunate. I think part of it -- we have talked about this with the water management school district and they are on this path, there has to be aggressive conservation now.

Has to be. You have to make the most of the water that you have. It's in everybody's interest to do that. It really is.

I know the water management school district and the team is trying to address that to do the best they can with those resources to get us there, because it's going to be a difficult

run at it. At the end of the day I'm praying we get blessed with a wet, dry season which would be great, not unheard of. It's happened.

Or at the end when we approach November mother nature hits us with lots of rain, forget the rest of it, just rain and puts us in much better.

If we could put two or three feet on that lake a lot of people would be happy including me. What is lake Okeechobee? There is some people through the that would like it to be the deep water reservoir of the --

reserve war of the state of Florida. Could you design to it do that? Sure. We could make that thing 25 feet if you wanted to, probably but there's a trade-off in doing

that. The water sitting in the lake has some destinations it has to serve as well. It's not just sitting in central Florida. There's places that need it. Caloosahatchee needs it certain times of the year and Everglades national park and greater

Everglades needs it. It's not getting it right now.

You'll hear Dan Kim balance say the park is parched. It needs the water badly. But there's criteria about what the water has got to be like when it gets there that's

gumming it up for us.

Colonel, let's get it to a better range, the corps is comfortable in that 121/2 to 151/2 foot range at the current condition of the dike. We have to anticipate what might happen so we tend not to hover on the 151/2 foot

because if the big storm comes we're in trouble. Try to get us you on the upper end of that threshold and I'm onboard for doing that.

I want to be able to do that. I'm putting pressure on my team to say why do we have to release that water? Why can't I go higher. Why can't the engineers squirm in their seats?

I want them to be anxious about the sanctity of the dike as we work through this. If they are comfortable they are conservative to begin with if they're comfortable I'm

running a little bit low but again, I think they did a good job of trying to anticipate what we needed to do.



You know, could we keep more inches, yeah, but I don't know how much.

But there's a great debate about the lake. As I talked to commissioner Putnam about it, the general dream is you would like a foot or

a foot 1/2 on the lake. That's a foot or a foot 1/2 more that doesn't jeopardize or destroy the lake's ecology.

You have dangerous species out there. I'm not suggesting we jeopardize that but there are times where we can get the water

levels higher to support them. As we have seen them this drought has been harmful to them. A lot of snail kites nested but then the parents abandoned the nests during the drought so the hatchlings never fledged. Having it too low nobody wins in that situation.

Everybody is going to suffer. The lake suffers.

All support needed for consumptive water use for the public, agriculture, ecology, all that, is just not there. That's a huge challenge. I'm certainly pushing hard to try to have the great debate is what I would call. I think having the dialog and the right people come to the

table and talk about this and do some informing is a powerful thing. If we ignore it we don't accomplish anything. There is proceed mice.

I think there is a middle ground and I would unusual you all to try to participate in that. I have talked to Commissioner Hall and others about some of the things I've pushing for to

facilitate that great debate to have open dialogue and discussion about that and decide what we need to do there.

Chairman Mann: Will you take some questions?

Yes. I'll stop there, commissioner.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Hall.

Commissioner Hall: Thank you very much for being here today. Obviously you know that Lee County and many of our residents and organizations have spent a lot of time on this.

Over the last two years coming on the tails of colonel Krueger I've been impressed with

your work and ability to reach out and engage in the great debate. That's what it is.

I wanted to ask a question and I don't want anyone to panic put I'm asking for reference. How long does it take you in a storm situation where we know we're going to get hit and

you have to bring the lake level down, how long does it take to pull a foot off the lake? That's the exact question that commissioner Putnam has asked me a couple times too.

You'll hear the corps say it comes in six times faster than we can get it out. It can take weeks to draw a foot of water off the lake.

I hate throwing a number because it depends on the condition of the canals and ability to take it into the conservation areas and the like, but generally speaking you're talking weeks, not days for sure.



That's the great risk we take. If Pantano plays it high, which I could, put it up at 15.2 or 15.3 mark and we get shocked

with that right storm in the basin to the north and it runs in there and puts four feet of water on the lake which historically has happened in a matter of days we're in trouble up to

19 and change and I'm sitting at the dike 24/7 losing sleep. At that level, I think I have the slide with me. No, I don't.

OK. It shows the risk is off the charts.

The probability of failure is almost guaranteed and the consequences given where the probability of failure is high. People and property will then be jeopardized.

We can't do it. That's the problem.

Commissioner Hall: I have been spending time with the commissioners to the east from our rural counties and chatting with them and I think overall with all the challenges that we

have with everybody's straws out on the lake there is a high level of respect for what you are trying to accomplish, a lot of encouragement coming from the secretary Putnam's office

and his willingness to be educated on seeing all sides of this issue.

I would encourage us to continue to put those people around the table and continue this discussion. We can't make the rain and we're going to be in a very difficult situation as we come into winter again. Again, I have thousands -- I don't need to debate what we have

talked about or and over again.

I just want to thank you for your continued willingness to make yourself available, your staff available and certainly to general seminite giving you the support you need down here.

Commissioner Putnam, I made that controversial release last year to the Caloosahatchee.

To his credit he called me right away and his approach was very professional, respectful, and inquisitive as to you know, explain to me how you made this decision. That's how we approached it.

From that point forward he comes out to the dike.

He's walked all the ground out there to see and understand what we're doing and why. He's heard from our engineers to understand the requirements here in terms of getting more water in the lake but understand where we're coming from.

He has that perspective and he's challenged us and asked some important questions, like which I have asked my team, wicker Nell, you don't have an open-E..ed schedule here.

We need to know. You have to make some best judgments here as to how does this story end? When do we get to some level where we can put some water on that lake? That's an important question. Why I talk about this.

Give me one second to mention it. That dike is dam safety action classification one.

The worst possible rating you could have. You have heard discussions in the past about probability of failure, all that kind of stuff. Herbert Hoover dike will never be a 5, which is the best.



It won't happen. You won't get the commitment and resources to get there and frankly you don't need to.

We need to get to desack two or desack three levels and that will probably be good enough to take out the greatest risk in the south-southeast, northwest corners.

You'll never do the entire dike. That would not be a good use of taxpayer dollars to do so and then we'll get to a state

where the desack level will be raised and go on with life as it relates to the lake. Commissioner Putnam has picked up on this clearly, you don't want to culminate too soon.

If the czar comes down and looks at this who says desack two looks good enough. At that point are you out of business.

All the competitors in the nation are not going to be desack two and guess where the money goes. We have to be careful about the timing as to when we make that transition.

We better make sure we feel we are there and comfortable with it. My concern is this is such a great demand and the resource is only so big. If we get there too soon we may get something we don't want.

Chairman Mann: We understand the competition.

Commissioner Judah.

Commissioner Judah: Thank you. I would like to thank you for taking the time to brief us this morning. I feel strongly you have been the driving force to allow us to move forward in the

Everglades restoration elevating the Tamiami trail and assisting Lee County with lake management.

You have been a huge ally to the community. You are very humble. Although you talked about having pretty much one more year here as

the colonel overseeing Everglades restoration you're not going off into the sunset. You are great American. It's my understanding you will be deployed in Afghanistan have a

after your year here as colonel of the corps. I applaud you for continuing to serve our community and our country I wanted to ask you

because you spoke earlier about the importance of accepting water south and as you look to fortifying the Herbert Hoover dike I have to go back to the importance of spillway.

It starts with being able to release water during high stages to redirect the water south where it historically went using the Caloosahatchee as a relief valve. Any indication that the corpse with regards to the design of the Herbert Hoover dike are

looking at a spillway to redirect the water to the south?

We're not other than the cop text of it's considered going through the reports and whatnot. I think the reality there is going to be when you have the ability to put the highway south, the way you're going to do that is through additional structures in the dike to get that

water out of there faster and at greater volumes because you need to. That's going to be the requirement I think that's going to drive that.

To go with the spillway you would get into the role of a dam envisioning the midwest giving that emergency spill capacity. The magnitude you would be all talking about is huge. Is it feasible?



Yeah, it could be done, but I think the same will be achieved by building an additional robust structures through the dike that allow the water to go south.

The reason we haven't done that at this point is I have no ability to send it south. It has nowhere to go.

We have two structures to the south-southeast that we used to pump through. We rely heavily on those, but that will not be good enough to get the water into the

Everglades as we need to so you'll build additional structures to get the water south is what I see happening and then from there to an S.T.A. or reservoir.

Commissioner Judah: I think you just made a case for why we need to purchase more land in the Everglades, something the govern governor opposes.

The recent court ruling overturning the governor's position where he wanted to suspend rule making.

We hope rule making will be reactivated with regard to water reservation and look to you and the corps to assist us in our efforts to make sure we can British the type of rule making

to provide the water reservation to get minimum flows and levels during drought conditions to maintain and protect our estuaries.

I think an argument there would be we submit permits to budget water to lots of things.

I would argue if you go down that road the county would submit a permit application to be budgeted water for ecological purposes on the Caloosahatchee and estuary and see where it takes you.

But it's subject to rule making to do that.

Why does the ecology not have the opportunity to be budgeted water like everything else, however small it maybe but -- Commissioner Judah: It will be our battle.

We hope to have you shoulder to shoulder with us. I did want to mention and you probably already know you talked about conservation, the

county already institutes two day a week irrigation year round unlike the east coast when they instituted during water shortages. We also over 70% of the water in our waste water treating plants we claim for waste water

standards. With steadfast being able to store 300 million gallons to draw from for drought conditions. We are the poster child. We can only get those on the east coast perhaps we

would be better off in protecting our precious water supplies. I agree.

Commissioner Judah: I thank you for your leadership.

Thank you, sir.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Bigelow? Do you have thoughts?

Commissioner Bigelow: I do but I think he's been here a long time.



Chairman Mann: I appreciate the patience of the entire commission, but I know we all understand how critically important this issue is.

Because of your own schedule, it's not possible to get you here as often as we would like to have you. Weekly would be fine. But I appreciate the fact, colonel, and I know I'm speaking

for all of us up here, that you certainly did hit the ground running. Your uptake of the institutional knowledge necessary to handle your job was instant. We didn't see any time of where you had to get up a learning curve.

We're grateful for the interest elect and experience that you brought to this task. I wish you well with your to-do list and what will be an ever increasingly short period of

time and probably very frustrating. I know it will be impossible for you to finish everything because the money is not going to be there. You can't ever depend on the weather, can you. Thank you again for showing that do you know where Lee County is and you recognize

both the environmental and economic impact of decisions made frequently in Jacksonville. That means a lot to us. It's a better relationship frankly than we have enjoyed in the past

and we give you personal credit for that. Our hand of friendship and partnership remains with you for the rest of the time we'll be able to enjoy your services. We wish you well. Do stay in touch.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman moon my successor is colonel Al Dodd.

I've told him clearly how to spend his year and I'll bring him down here side by side and we'll walk this together before I'm thrown off this team.

I promise you he'll get it before he gets in to the job. Chairman Mann: Wonderful.

Thank you.

Commissioner Bigelow: We do appreciate you. Thank you, sir.

[Applause]

Chairman Mann: Thank you, colonel and thank you, gentlemen, you civvies who don't get much credit but we appreciate you. Folks, we still have to get a meeting to run here.

But it's relatively short. I think we can get through in it quick fashion here.

As to the recap I need a motion to defer one week item c and I have such a motion. A second? Is there discussion on that?

Show it adopt without objection. Or is there objection?

I'm sorry. C-10, a motion to correct the spelling.

Discussion? Objection?

Show that passed. We have done the walk-on by Commissioner Judah. Thank you very much for that.



That takes us to public comment. Reverend are you here for public comment?

This would be the time.

I think it's a public hearing about the gun ordinance. Chairman Mann: We'll take that up at the time of the public hearing which will be pretty

quick. Are there others? I have no blue cards before me on any consent item. Commissioner Hall do you have times pull?

Commissioner Hall: No, I do not.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Manning?

Commissioner Manning: No. Chairman Mann: I had 7-a and 13-b.

Commissioner Judah.

Commissioner Judah: None.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Bigelow. Commissioner Bigelow: I was going to pull 13-b as well.

Move the balance of the consent agenda? Show that adopted without objection.

Commissioner Bigelow, you take 13-b utility rate consultant. Commissioner Bigelow: OK.

Appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. This is county management’s request we concur with the ranking of consultants by

competitive negotiations committee. We have been here a while short especially this meeting up. I'll say like before I don't support the make-up of the committee as well as other aspects of

selection.

Move. Second.

Chairman Mann: I have a motion and a second by Commissioner Judah, seconded by Commissioner Manning under discussion.

Let me ask you, we always hire consultants to do these studies. Mr. Muir are you supposed to answer this question too? That's right. We have a new person in charge here.

Ann keys no reels to Stephanie keys.

Chairman Mann: We needed a quadrates to run our system and everybody understands that but you all know money in, money out expenses and anticipating expenses in the near future.



What is the fundamental purpose of hiring a rate consultant?

It's interesting. We use this consultant throughout the year.

A lot of times they have resources and have knowledge about what other utilities are doing, what's happening in the industry, what's happening with financing and borrowing. So it's more than just the rate study.

They help us to keep on track and monitor where we're going but also bring that industry knowledge of what's happening in the region that we can tap into and try to learn from.

Chairman Mann: OK. Sometimes -- you make me a little nervous with that answer.

I see we base our decisions there on what's happening in the industry or in Sarasota county or something like that so that we're trying to keep up with industry standards.

I'm interested in what it dozens run our system right here and what our anticipated increases are. So I'm not particularly interested in that institution al knowledge are my thoughts.

I'm going to have to go with the staff's recommendation. With this as a continuation thing, you talk like we have always had a rate consultants

onboard.

It is a continuation of services for us. Chairman Mann: Any other further questions.

Commissioner Judah: Let me follow up that statement and ask, so it's just a full-time

consultant that -- no? They assist us every year to go through our financing and ensure we are meeting all of our

requirements. Then we use them on an as needed basis if issues arise.

Chairman Mann: We -- Commissioner Judah: We just recently established rates passing a 3-2 vote. This seems to be for the purposes of rate determination assistance if you will.

The answer left me curious. I'm not getting it. What is it that public resources management group Inc. Will do except tell us what other people are doing?

We're going for tipping for one of our plants and look at what the best financing options are.

They will be helping us with that specific issue. And again, they help us every year to make sure we are on track.

So it's a needed service that just helps us every year to evaluate and make sure that we're following industry standards, best business practices.

Chairman Mann: OK. Certainly.

Commissioner Hall? Commissioner Hall: Will the cop tent come back to us?



We're just approving rankings, but will it come back to us?

That is correct.

I don't think so because it's an anticipated hourly and it's anticipated to be under $100,000 so I don't believe so.

Commissioner Hall: I would like to see if I could get a copy of the agreement, I think that will clear up what you are having them do for the year.

That would be helpful. Thank you.

Commissioner Bigelow: May I ask a question? This $100,000 limit you are talking about for the county manager, himself or herself,

whoever it might be, there is also spending authorization granted by the board in the middle of 2006 that she can designate others. Why then if this is that under $100,000 spending flesh hold she has the predetermined

authorization to spend are we then having to see and approve or concur with this committee's -- you can pick and choose. Or is it that you always bring us the list of

consultants in a ranked form and then we concur with it, because now I'm thinking -- not always. I could point out some consultants hired not after we have -- or not with our

concurrence. So, what gives here? In this case it's a competitive, selection process where they submitted qualifications and

had to do interviews. You do see for approval of ranking all competitive submittals such as this.

Chairman Mann: Regardless of the dollar amount.

Regardless of dollar amount we have to concur with your selection.

Commissioner Bigelow: If it's $100,000 are you saying we have to concur with the ranking? I would defer.

Bob?

Good morning, that's correct. That's back to the transparency issue we chatted about yesterday. If there have been inconsistency in the past I apologize. I'm working on correcting that.

Commissioner Bigelow: I would like to see all of Mr. Fumero's contracts and when it is we

concurred with his selection on each of those contracts. Thank you.

Chairman Mann: Further questions? Furs discussion on this?

Did I take a motion? Commissioner Hall: I'll make another one.



The we have one?

Chairman Mann: I don't think so.

Commissioner Judah: We had a motion and a second. Chairman Mann: I think we had a motion and a second.

Is there further discussion? Objection to the motion?

Commissioner Bigelow: Aye.

Chairman Mann: Show it massing 3-2 with missioner Mann and Bigelow dissenting. I pulled 7-a sometimes Commissioner Judah picks that but I got there first, the people

contributing to the LeeGrows. They appreciate it and are part of the program and I wanted to say a special thank you to those folks especially Carolyn Murphy who is listed as someone who's gone above and beyond the call of that valuable program.

Commissioner Manning: Move the item.

Commissioner Hall: Second.

Chairman Mann: Second by Commissioner Hall. Show that passing without objection.

That takes us to the administrative.

Commissioner Hall: Move 7-a. Commissioner Manning: Second.

Chairman Mann: Agenda on 7-a.

I have a motion by Commissioner Hall, seconded by Commissioner Manning. The only question I have, it says $100,000 annually or just this year?

Commissioner Hall: $125,000.

Chairman Mann: The expenditures will exceed $100,000 and we can expect them to exceed $100,000 for the entire future of the world?

Steve Myers, yes, we expect that to increase above $100,000. We have been buying Gill ignore vehicle force our fleet since about the year 2000.

They now surprise 75% of the full-size vehicles we operate. The expenditures for parts we need to buy from them has continued to escalate. Now we expect to exceed the $100,000 threshold.

Chairman Mann: When if ever will the issue of buying these parts which seem to be costing

more each year, will we get a chance to review that again or are we plugging you in forever at $125 annually?



Several points here. The first point is that the reason we go for the Gill ignore O.E.M. parts is for warranty issues. We have to keep everything in play there were multiyear warranties

on these vehicles. Please understand when we do a waiver, before we bring a waiver request to you, it is fully vetted.

We go out with what we call an R. F. I. Or request for interest which is posted on the internet for 10 days to see if there is any interest at all from the worldwide web.

Secondly, it is confirmed by the vendor and the manufacturer that that is in fact a sole source, that we cannot get these from any other distributor.

It's on their letterhead signed by someone of importance from that company. There is also a form, a justification for sole source form that I sign, Mr. Myers signs as well as the purchasing agent that is assigned to that project to confirm all of that has been

accomplished. As a bonus we use Google it to make sure what we come to you with is in fact a sole source. Frankly, we have had bites back on the R. F. I.s over the years but they

never made them to you because we were able to quote them and other things. Chairman Mann: You anticipate a question that I normally ask but had not.

My question is we have exceeded this year's authority. We are over $100,000.

Yes.

Chairman Mann: And you are asking up to $125. Is this a matter of policy we are granting to you go to $125 or what is the upper limit for

the foreseeable future? Does this just get us through this year or have we established a new level approving this?

We are establishing a new level up to $125,000 per fiscal year.

Chairman Mann: And Mr. Myers says base the on previous purchases and patterns here that $125 makes more sense for these parts and these vehicles.

Yes, commissioner. Our fiscal office has look at the issue and made the call that $125,000 is adequate going

forward. If we need to exceed the $125 we would need to come back for additional authority.

Chairman Mann: Further questions or discussion? We do have a motion.

Commissioner Hall: Mr. Chairman, Steve, how many vehicles have we added over the last

60 months? Tough to say, I don't have that count in front of me, but we have about 36 of these

vehicles in our full-size fleet out of a total of 48 that are active. Most of those are, have been brought into the fleet in at least the last 24 months.



Commissioner Hall: We keep adding meaning more parts which means it's not a static

number like five vehicles and that's why the number is going up but you keep adding vehicles and there's a correlation between the number of vehicles we add and the parts we

need? Correct.

Chairman Mann: Show it passing unanimously.

A 7-b. Commissioners we would like to defer this one week.

We talked to purchasing and the county attorney and we believe we are on a firm legal basis to do this without a C.M. doing it back next week to do it in house.

Chairman Mann: They are asking for a one week deferral. Commissioner Manning Max that motion makes that motion.

Commissioner Hall seconds. Further discussion?

Commissioner Bigelow: Yes.

You bring it back without a C.M. That means we will be contract managing it internally. When this was to come up as it is, I was going to question Mr. Beck on whether or not we

have thought about a hard bid in this situation and why that would be inappropriate.

Chairman Mann: That would be appropriate next week as the motion is to defer. Commissioner Bigelow: I throw it in the hopper so it can be responded to.

It doesn't have to be responded to now.

I don't think Mr. Beck will be here next week. Commissioner Bigelow: Maybe two weeks then.

No, just one week but he won't be here next week.

Chairman Mann: Under the circumstances let me allow the question, Mr. Beck if you can give Mr. Bigelow a quick answer there.

For the record rich beck facility.

I won't be here but I'll have someone from my staff. We hope to bring this back and just handle the project in house with our own internal roofing people who will oversee the job with a single roofing company that will give you a

hard bid price.

Commissioner Bigelow: That would be a hard bid price but not a competitively sought hard bid cost, correct?



We'll have even I think with this we had three different roofing companies who gave us three different prices.

We'll give those to you.

Commissioner Bigelow: Good. Thank you.

Chairman Mann: Thank you. Further discussion?

Objection? Show that passing without objection. That brings us to what?

Commissioner Hall: Public hearing.

Chairman Mann: We took care of our administrative agenda. Public hearing.

Our first one involves -- somebody want to set the stage, councilor? Mr. Leonard.

Commissioner Bigelow: In setting the stage can you give us the whole gamut?

I can do that.

Yes let me put the affidavit into the public records. I have an affidavit of publication for me for both ordinances on your 9:30 public hearing

agenda one dealing with an amendment to the park and recreation ordinance and the other the noise ordinance. It is sufficient with respect to form and content and I enter into it into the record at this

time. These are two separate public hearings but the issue is the same and it has to do with

amendment of the county's regulations based upon recent legislative change strengthening the pre-emption with respect to weapons and any local regulations with respect to firearms and ammunition.

I don't know exactly what you want to know.

There was a memo that went out to the board. I tried to explain what was going on.

The legislature has made it very clear they do not want local governments acting to enforce regulations with respect to firearms and ammunition in any way, shape, or form and they

have done something that I think is rather extraordinary, which is to impose sanctions basically private sanctions against the board, any directors involved in adopting regulations or enforcing policies or rules with respect or that appear to control or regulate firearms and

ammunition in the county.

So that's why we are here to eliminate any references in those two ordinances, the noise ordinance and the parks and recreation ordinance with respect to regulating firearms and ammunition.



Chairman Mann: Further on this point if you would allow me.

Is it my memory serving me correctly there was a suit threatened or filed against the county to paying us comply?

Yes, sir and it's still active.

Chairman Mann: And it's now before us.

It's not been settled yet to my knowledge. Chairman Mann: Still pending.

Commissioner Bigelow: Wait a minute.

That preceded this state legislative -- That is correct.

Commissioner Bigelow: That's why we last amended our parks and rec ordinance.

We did. Then the legislature came back and strengthened the pre-emption.

Commissioner Bigelow: We reacted with an amendment because of that lawsuit and now we are reacting to the legislation today.

Correct.

Commissioner Bigelow: I have questions do you want public comments first?

Chairman Mann: If it's a legal question to her Commissioner Bigelow: Mine are more aimed at getting clarity for the sake of the public.

Tis a public hearing. Public hearing as well as participation and I'm getting asked questions. So I guess what I would like to know, that's why I was asking for the total gamut here,

what is, what takes place now that we would like to see take place, because that's what our ordinances allow?

What will change for us as citizens in this great county after or if this these ordinances pass? How will it change our lives?

With respect to the noise ordinance, we are simply taking out a reference to the shooting of

a firearm as defining impulsive sound. That is rather benign change. An abundance of precaution change.

The other changes with respect to the weapons provisions for parks and recreation and what we are doing is removing any reference to the fact that we intend to enforce Florida

statutes chapter 790. It removes any doubt with respect to concealed weapons. It would -- what follows from that is a change to the Sipes in all the parks.



They will no longer reference no weapons because the only sign you can do is put up a gun, the universal sign.

There will no longer be a reference on our any of the signs in the parks. To no weapons or even in accordance with Florida statute chapter 790, because that has

been the prevailing opinion is that will be a violation of the ordinance. That's what the other counties believe, as well. So we will have no statement in the parks.

We will have no statement in our ordinance. However, the statute is still effective always it was before and we were enforcing the

statute. Our sheriff's department can still enforce the regulations on the books, the state statute.

And that's it. That's what the legislature apparently wants.

They don't want us to do anything or say anything. They just want the legislature and the state statute to control.

Commissioner Bigelow: They want us to go away basically.

Pretty much.

Commissioner Bigelow: It's up to you. We're mixing the two public hearings.

Chairman Mann: Well, the subject as she said -- I didn't want to start on the second one.

Chairman Mann: Are related. The sound and gun itself.

You would have to take separate votes but --

Commissioner Bigelow: You are OK with the discussion together? I have more.

Chairman Mann: Let me take public comment and then we'll get back to the board.

Commissioner Bigelow: Public comment might want to react to what we say. The first public hearing is the actually the parks and recreation ordinance if you wanted to

split it out at this point that would be fine.

Chairman Mann: It will be hard to separate and I don't think we have that many. Reverend Robinson, this is the time we recognize you to come forward and speak to the one before us is -- is this the noise or the public parks?

Parks and recreation.

Chairman Mann: And it says we cannot prohibit guns in the parks. That's the issue before us.



If you want to weigh into the sound thing too that would be all right.

Yes.

Chairman Mann: State your name for the record. Wane Robinson from Fort Myers.

When I appear at an event like this I'm reminded of the statement that most people don't think Americans should be involved in politics.

That was first said by pharaoh to Moses. Yesterday I invoked divine blessing at the port authority meeting and you were surprised with what I said, as I heard.

Chairman Mann: Yes.

But I am here today because I think this is a very serious matter. As I understand it, commissioner Bigelow, in 1987, chapter 790 to which the attorney

referred was the comprehensive law governing weapons in Florida. As people interpreted that wisely so, I think, there was a difference how that law would

apply where you have tens of thousands of children in Orlando and Lee County with its beaches or an agricultural rule county -- rural county where there was a different kind of

constituency. There was a tolerance for each county to do its own thing, so to speak.

What has happened with the increase in the emphasis on the recent Supreme Court 5-4 by the way, a decision interpreting the second amendment to the bill of rights and to the

constitution, was that somehow or other guns should be allowed everywhere. And so we have what has happened here in Florida. I personally think a person who wants to carry a concealed weapon is not the kind of

person I want to carry a concealed weapon. We have law enforcement. We have sheriffs. For somebody to need that, the 6,000 who have permits in Lee County.

If it's for security, fine, but individuals, it's not right. I guess what is happening is this commission is losing power. On October 1 the law goes into effect and you can't say even in the parks what you want. I don't moon this -- mean this disrespectfully, they want

everybody to roll over and play dead and do this. And nobody is crying out this is a wrong being done 330 miles away in Tallahassee.

That's why I'm here. Evidently one lone voice, I'm speaking. Commissioner Bigelow: Welcome to my world.

Chairman Mann: We appreciate your willingness to come back in addition to your ethereal

comments you offered yesterday. Thank you very much.

Commissioner Bigelow, do you have thoughts? I know Commissioner Judah does before I ask for a motion.

Reporter: Reverend, are you not alone. I brought this issue up not long ago.



We were in a lawsuit to have to change our signage in our marks and beaches with regards to prohibition of firearms wherein we needed to make it abundantly clear that we would

allow concealed weapons so people could take their beach towels and picnic lunch and concealed weapon to the beach thanks to the state statute and legislature.

Now it's gone even farther. Where the legislature has totally pre-empted local communities where we have been shut

off from being able to properly manage the use of firearms or where they are permitted. It's interesting and I would submit to the board that perhaps has a legislative priority for

next session that we encourage the legislature to allow for concealed weapons in their own legislative chambers.

If it's good for everywhere else in the state, anywhere, anyplace it should be good in to the legislative chambers. State statute does prohibit guns in professional sporting events, high

schools, the chambers of county commissioners. I think it's appropriate the way the legislature has been responding to the permitting of guns anywhere and everywhere to allow guns in their own chambers and maybe that's something this board should consider

as a top priority for next legislative session.

Commissioner Bigelow: Interesting.

Chairman Mann: Further comments before I ask for a motion? We know the issue before us. We are on for the record?

Commissioner Bigelow: I do.

I was just going to allow Commissioner Judah. Chairman Mann: I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to cut you off. We'll have discussion on the motion if I get a motion.

Commissioner Bigelow: Go for it.

Chairman Mann: We're on public hearing number one. And I would accept a motion now to pass staff's recommendation.

Commissioner Manning: So moved.

Commissioner Hall: Seconded.

Chairman Mann: Further discussion or discussion on the motion? Commissioner Bigelow: Yeah.

Dawn, I appreciate your September 7th memo explaining these for us. --

Chairman Mann: You are done? Commissioner Bigelow: The problem isn't that you provided it but we are at a public



hearing and I've been contacted by media and there's some very serious -- or serious level of interest out there as there always is when we talk about guns because we're talking

about the ability in volatile situations for one human being to use the gun on another human being.

What I would like to know is if we were to not pass this, we would then wait for the state to take action, correct, against us?

There's penalties, there's penalties effective October 1, I understand?

The penalties both for the county and for the individuals, it would not be a recommending. You personally.

The sanctions that can be imposed, a $5,000 fine and removal from office. Straight up.

Commissioner Bigelow: Wow.

We're not recommending that you -- Commissioner Bigelow: The $5,000 I have a problem with.

It's a $5,000 fine you have to represent yourself personally not county funds and you can

be removed from office. Commissioner Bigelow: If that's not the proverbial gun to my head.

Oh, lordy.

Commissioner Bigelow: I'm stunned. You told me about it that there were penalties. OK. Here's my philosophical problems with where we are, how we got here and the fact

that we are here. As a citizen I can post a sign on my front door as a private citizen that says no guns allowed. I can put it on the perimeter of my property, express my, use my

first amendment rights, which is to speak, be heard. And yet this ordinance, this particular ordinance says that as a county we cannot even cut and paste state legislative law.

Their words, on signs, that would say -- I'm sorry, Commissioner Hall, I know it's been a

long meeting. You sound like you have had enough, but this is really, really important to me. I'm sorry.

Commissioner Hall: I'm not interrupting you.

Commissioner Bigelow: No but I sense your intolerance. And to think that they have inserted personalities like this that this -- penalties where they can come after me personally because I might prefer to be able to use the first amendment

to point out how they are trying to use the second amendment to trump the first amendment.

My own first amendment rights as a citizen commissioner, I guess. And this just sounds like it would hit the Supreme Court dead on arrival.



I couldn't believe that this would pass the Supreme Court of the United States. I really don't. And yet, now I have to make a decision to cast a vote for or against

recognizing that I could suffer penalties myself as well as put the county at risk if we don't comply with the state laws.

This is weighing on me very, very heavily. I have never been at more of, felt more in my four or five years here, felt like I'm in a

position where I don't know, I don't know how to go. Because I am squarely up against my own personal philosophical principles with this

legislative action of theirs. Chairman Mann: Further discussion?

We have a motion and a second. Let me say this and I'll probably live to regret it.

This is an unusual act of our legislature with all the serious issues they have had to undertake.

I don't know why there was such a drive to pass this legislation where there really hasn't been proven to me any justification for telling people they can now happily take their guns

to Fort Myers beach. It just doesn't make sense. I've got to say -- and I'm saying this as a long-term supporter and advocate of the second

amendment that people talk about so much and an N.R.A. member, I'm saying this, that's why I'll regret this. I'll get hate mail for it.

But I think there's a zeal and paranoia that is evident in Tallahassee far beyond any need on this type of legislation but I'll succumb to the gun to my head because of the terrible

consequences directed at us personally. Perhaps somebody will take them on and challenge it. I'm not ready to do that yet.

Any further comments?

Commissioner Bigelow: I know the chair usually has the luxury of the last word but I want to say what I'm going to do and why. I too am a gun owner but I don't want others to bring a gun into my home.

For that reason as well as being a hunter, for a number of years. Because I don't want somebody coming into my home with a gun uninvited, unwelcomed,

that I have it. But we can't tell us citizens what -- tell our citizens what we would like them to know about

the freedoms or restrictions that the state legislature has in their infinite wisdom thrust pop us.

I have to vote against this motion. Chairman Mann: Further discussion?

Objection? Show it passing 3-2, Commissioner Judah and commissioner Bigelow dissenting.

Can we take up the next ordinance. The noise ordinance and there is an amendment to the noise ordinance regarding the



definition of impulsive sound.

Commissioner Bigelow: May I ask a question about that?

Chairman Mann: Certainly. Commissioner Bigelow: So, it will not be it will still be illegal or unacceptable to fire off

firearms in certain areas or at certain times?

Changing the definition simply removes the example. It doesn't change the fact that a fired gun will be an impulsive sound. You can't change the nature of what it is. We're just taking it out of our regulations so it's

clear that we're not trying to regulate firearms.

Commissioner Bigelow: So it's the sound that it creates that the sheriff would respond to. Correct.

Commissioner Bigelow: Is this the same situation always in the first public hearing where

there is state legislative law in black and white print that we are not allowed to copy here in our ordinance?

This is it is same regulation. We are making that change based on the same statutory change.

There is not a statute that says you can't define impulsive sound to include the discharging of firearms.

It's an abundance of caution to avoid any idea that we might be trying to under our noise ordinance pull in firearms and ammunition regulation.

We're amending this. What we are doing is consistent with many of the other counties across the state of Florida.

Commissioner Bigelow: OK. The same penalty there personally if we don't do this?

I believe so.

We believe so.

I'm saying that because this is a definition. What I'm telling you is it's being done in an abundance of precaution consistent with the

other counties across the state of Florida to eliminate any ability for somebody to come and say that you fine gentlemen have violated a statute.

Chairman Mann: This protects the guy at Fort Myers beach to reach down into his swim trunks and shoots the guy about to get him so he won't be accused of violating a oils in

ordinance? No.



All it does is changes the definition of impulsive sound from our perspective to eliminate firearms.

It doesn't change what an impulsive sound is. Which in reality if you shoot a gun it's an impulsive sound.

That's why they do starter guns and other things. It makes people move.

Chairman Mann: Any further questions? Comments?

I have a motion. Wane, you can't do it. Technically you can but are you going to say the same thing again?

Chairman Mann: Issued call for public input on this one.

Step up. Thank you, Ms. Leonard.

My question is doesn't this mean anyone can go in their backyard with an automatic gun and fire at will and you can't complain next door?

Chairman Mann: Ask the question again, Wayne.

Do this mean I or someone else can go in my backyard and fire them off and you can't complain about the noise or anything about the guns?

No.

The nature of the noise would still be a noise that would violate the ordinance. All we are doing is eliminating -- we're changing the defense and the reference to the discharge of a firearm.

It doesn't eliminate the fact that the discharge of a firearm may violate the noise ordinance.

The "New York Times" in an article Sunday said just the opposite.

Chairman Mann: We'll make the best of it with the information we have. I have a motion by Commissioner Manning seconded by Commissioner Hall.

Commissioner Bigelow: I have a question.

Chairman Mann: We're on discussion. Mr. Bigelow.

Commissioner Bigelow: If I vote against this agency I did the first one because I vote against it am I subject to the penalty?

No. It's because of collective action.

Commissioner Hall: Two of us can say no and three of us say yes so we can keep you out of jail.



Commissioner Bigelow: I'll send you a Christmas card.

Chairman Mann: Objection?

Show it passing by the same origin as the previous vote. That takes us, we have done our walk-ons and carryons. Commissioner Hall?

Commissioner Hall: I have a couple of things.

First, I want to remind everyone who is a resident of the city of Cape Coral to vote if you have not early voted. I hope everyone is out voting today. Secondly, I would like to present to holly or Pete a check for $25,000.

It was my honor to represent the board at the work force dinner last week Friday. And be able to receive this for the Bob Janes triage center.

Governor Janes was there and I think he heard of our disappointment and -- this public and private partnership and what it means to our community and a star within the state with

how we want to deal with keeping folks out of jail that shouldn't be in jail. And I also on Saturday had the privilege of being a volunteer at the children's event to

benefit the Ronald McDonald house on labor day weekend at the marina village in Cape Coral.

Unofficially we raised almost $38,000 in the fishing tournament but the part I participated in were 100 children gave a small donation, got a rod and reel and fished off the docks and

we cut snook to pin fish to snapper.

It was fun, about three hours to watch the kids start. My job was baiting hooks and replacing hooks that got broke and transitioning them to the parents while they watched. I think the Ronald McDonald house benefited and I appreciate

them supporting the kids as welling. Lastly, I want to bring back to the board, I'm very concerned about laurel and Bartholomew roads.

I have a memo from chief pie that there is a three to five additional delay due to the condition of the roads.

I would like an update on these two roads. If we get more rain and wash out continually I have a level of safety concern and will

probably come back to ask the board to declare a state of emergency. I would hope that the board will support our emergency management staff working with the fire chief and the sheriff as well out there to make sure we're not putting people at risk.

Commissioner Manning: Beyond what we did yesterday?

That we get an update and we continue to see conditions as they are right now we are going into three to five minute delays on emergency vehicles I'll come back and ask for a

state of emergency to fill more severe holes.

Chairman Mann: You're asking we look at two specific roads.



Commissioner Hall: They are the worst and that's where I'm getting information from chief

pie fire chief of north Fort Myers that he's concerned about delays because of conditions of the road. I would like to take another look.

We maybe in a different condition by next Tuesday and ask them to update us. I'm concerned about the delay of emergency vehicles.

Chairman Mann: Mr. Loveland and will Wilson were here yesterday. Is the staff you are referring to?

Commissioner Hall: If they want to go out and look at well I was looking at emergency management because they have to give us an update but it doesn't matter.

Chairman Mann: So we get the job done.

Anyone have a problem with that? I don't think so. Govern yourself accordingly.

Further?

Commissioner Hall: No that's it.

Missioner Manning? No.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Judah.

Commissioner Judah: Earlier in the year the board approved the replacement of the Matt latchet British and that meant the elimination of habitat for several thousand bats.

We all know bats are a natural predator of mosquitoes. Each bat per evening beats 3,000 mosquitoes, a far more cost effective that we spend with

Lee County mosquito control. There was an understanding why we needed to protect and provide a suitable replacement

for bat habitat based on the bats that were evicted when the brim was torn down and needs to be replaced.

Money was spent, about $25,000 pursuant to regulatory permitting to provide a habitat for the bats. The bathouse itself plus the permitting and the marine contractor contracted out

to install the bat house came to about $25,000.

There was ridicule and comments about excessive expenditure for the bathouse even though it was a clear understanding it was for the importance of protecting bats. There were comments made if we build them they will come, but they didn't.

That may have been attributed to the you at one time. I just wanted to be report too, Mr. Chairman, that even though there is still a lot of

construction going on it was U. Stood it would be premature for the bats to reoccupy the bat houses during construction, until it became quieter and cop due sieve for the bats we were anticipating they would return and use the bathouse after construction, I want to



report to you, Mr. Chairman, I know you would be interested this past weekend construction contractors

Reporter: Ed the bats have returned and are indeed using the bat houses.

Very good. Chairman Mann: What a relief.

Commissioner Judah: I thought you would be relieved to hear that.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Judah you may not have heard all my comments but my final comments attributed to the extent of a $25,000 bathouse were I certainly hope in the

time to come even though the bats had not chose especially to make that their home that indeed there was hope that they would.

I'm greatly relieved at the receipt of your report. Commissioner Judah: You betcha.

Chairman Mann: Commissioner Bigelow.

You are stunned?

Commissioner Bigelow: I'm trying to think of something to say along the house of holy bathouse, batman. I was going to bring up something for the county manager with a proclamation that I have been asked to bring forward but I'm not doing it yet.

This is the outfall or the consequence of my attempt to talk with the county manager by e-mail about this discussion I wanted to have today.

Turns out she responded and said she wouldn't be here as she had advised. So I asked my say the when did she advise that she wouldn't be here. It appears she did commissioner chairman, Commissioner Mann advise your office and we

weren't notified. That's just a simple oversight, not a huge problem necessarily. I think as the county manager herself has suggested when we discussed previously I think

we were discussing county attorney in some respect that she would like to know what is the policy with respect to notifying us. Four contract employees. Could we just agree any time they are taking preplanned time off we are all five notified?

I doubt we have to do this in any kind of administrative code amendment but if it's all right I would like to ask the chair to ask that of the four contract employees.

Any time they are taking predetermined time off they notify all five of us by e-mail satisfy satisfactory or any other form so we all know.

Chairman Mann: Seems like a fair request. Can we dump that, in Schwartz into your lap and pass it on to the four official folks we're

referring to? It's seems like a natural thing to do.

Commissioner Bigelow: I'll bring it up next week. Did Karen copy on my e-mail to her about smoking?

No. I received that.



Chris Brady is here and I can answer some of those questions here.

Commissioner Bigelow: It's almost lunchtime and I have no appointments.

Chairman Mann: I have one commissioner item. I have a letter here prepared by Ann Arnold from our human services department. This relates to the bob Janes triage center. That she's hoping that we would send over the signature.

This draft she prepared is to the governor relating to his budget already being prepared that does not include reference to the triage center.

I would ask Commissioner Hall: So moved. Chairman Mann: Ask permission to send this and a similar letter to the legislative

delegation. The legislature passed this, overfunded it and the governor saw fit to veto it but he's not coming back with any money at all and next year we'll be in a terrible situation.

Any objection to sending those letters? Thank you. Appointments.

Commissioner Hall: I have a reappointment to have Tracy Haig and Chris Barredy and Jennifer Staypend and Michael Antone and appointment of Michael Ecconbad.

Chairman Mann: Show it adopted without recommendation.

Commissioner Judah: I have three reappointments. Jim Shavinski and Liz Donnard to the land development code and David Salco to the

roadway advisory committee.

Chairman Mann: Discussion? Objection? Show it passed without objection.

Commissioner Judah: None, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Mann: I have James ink. Discussion, objection?

Show that passing without objection. County manager.

Mr. County attorney. We have one item I want to reaffirm the session seconds 286.011 subsection 8 of Florida

statutes. The purpose is so I can seek the advice of the board on attorney settlement negotiations and other --

Chairman Mann: Second notice but no change to the previous information? Just for information purposes.

Chairman Mann: Thank you.

Commissioner Manning: There is a change.



Commissioner Hall: We added the county manager.

The county manager has already been published and she is notified.

Commissioner Manning: Just confirming what we have done privately. Chairman Mann: That's all in until 5:00.

See you all then.

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