national archives ireland - cain.ulster.ac.uk · the orm r premi r , os tain o'neill, and ......

NATIONAL ARCHIVES

IRELAND

Reference Code: 2001/43/1407

Title: Report of discussion about the North of Ireland

at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, by

Kevin Rush, Minister Plenipotentiary, Embassy

of Ireland to Great Britain. Creation Date(s): 14 April, 1970

Level of description: Item

Extent and medium: 13 pages

Creator(s): Department of Foreign Affairs

Access Conditions: Open

Copyright: National Archives, Ireland. May only be

reproduced with the written permission of the

Director of the National Archives.

DFA/5 Department of Foreign Affairs

© National Archives, Ireland



c

.1ieport ot: PJ· .. sc r~sJ.9 .. Il ~b ut t ~ _ .O.l~tl1: .9LrelanCl....£t'L-i.l~_.J2.E..ei.£Jl_:lL

Q.on lOnVle aI.i.!'!. O.£t) ... c,e ... J.1IJ+' 7

Present - Irish Side: ssador O' Sullivan and Ml'l Rush

il" 3dVlare. Peck, De ~ uty Un elll- SeCl)etary

, & c. o. dr ~ A Burroughs s Whitehall ' s ~e· lesentative

in Bel:t~ast

Mr A a.ngdon, Home ff·c ti K or"hite" irst Secreta! !> c. o.

Si!~ ~dward :t:ec opening t e di SC .. ssion, said it Wf:3.S a month sine

they had met and in t e meantime the ( the Bl~itish) had been !'ove

right about Easte

The dernurre b t -

Cir Edward cent inued r s..., yo ng, tf&il~ly l~i 'ht h, as regards

aster, in the sense that the Ballyrnurj;)hjt'l" affair was e "ce tiona a d

quite spontaneous, not ca sed by subversive orces.

BUI~!·oughs could discuss tat.

erha s v1r

Mr BUI,:I-Oyghs reed t ... e.t t _e fi st night 0 . the allymur by trouble

was spontaneous. H t u.st ew up - no one knovls why - ot even tM

Ca.rdin 1, with whom'vve ave iscussec) it". On the second night , h said~ the PD had tru{en advantage of the trouble to fonent more trou :le , but the first night had c 'om "out o:f t e blue". oVlever',

the mi i tary hELd e a.rn.t val U.E!. Ie ssons from that ex er·ienc •

Perhaps it would have been better, a s they now realise , if the

military had not ta en it "so uietl U at. the be inning. Next tim

they w uld react faster and m~ e mo ~e arrests sooner. Their new olicy wOlud be to ni trotlble in the b witho1.1t dela The ?"

had. als been studying t e 8Y-OUt of the narrow sic1estreets in Ballymu:pp ~, and the tI100 8 were bein.f traineo now to encircl e

entil"'e blocks of4 streets on such occasions in the future .

Sir' Edvl8.rd in 1 i ~ed how t eft ure looke d.

lied the.t a ot depended on the recent b -elections ,

or rather- , on one ' s intel' retation of them. Undoubtedl, the Union bt Par·t was moving t the Ri ,ht mOl'e O-bviously now. 'j;'lat Inie;ht ca s

them some troub e , b t if they handled i t ~vell s m lood Inieht stil

come out or it. It wa.s clear· that the Unionis Part m st ess

e.head rith the reforms. T ere could be n question about that The

Stormont Govel ent must control th Party m8.chiner . The" m st deal

with the Right-wing re els. t the Papty meting on ~'pi(lay



- 2

(24/1.~/ t 70), arral"1..gem nts had been mad - thou£h they were not well

publicised - :Lor ousting t e rebels :Crom the Pa.rty· The stormont

Government must use the n w ar-rangements ltd ring the next few months U

. to bring the Party under~ their c ontro

On a fresh tack , he c ontinu db sayins t .at commun,it re ations ha iu r-oved , es ec·ally between the Governm nt and th ~inOl~ity, -ro

exrunple , ume and Currie, with whom he had been in touc , were no

saying in effect "these cha.s are doing their best - let ' s tr t

hel theruu• The Catholic Hierarei: was displaying a s "milar attitude.

The Amba_sf?J3 ..... do r intervened to inquire whet .. eri - des ite the even S 0

Easter and the results of t e b -elect·onn - t e were sti 1 reasonabl r 0 timist·c.

u er'oughs repli d that the were, altho O'h he Vi uld e . hasise t

word ttr·easonab yU - if they kept a tight 0 rO p -

The Ambassa.do r inter °ected tat he could not agree . ·"ith two by

elections lost by the Government , and two s ch danger us individ al now ta.king t eir- seats in Stormont , e must disagree s arply.

_______ r_o_ug~·_h_s interjected that one must mak a ist"notion bet 'een th

two by-elections. aisley was certai nly a ig roblem, but in th outh Antrim -El ction t e ~oderates had split the vote - and

without necessa·i .y rea_ising it in advance p~rha s - had been

j.flstrumenta in e ecting eattieo

The .A.mba ointed out that the UnioniEt candi ate , 'ior~gan, had

been a ver bad C 10ioe He had been instrumenta in 41ngin-:r down

the orm r Premi r , Os tain O' Neill, and vas even worse than Craig.

He ad ed t_ at he consider*ed ore a verJY dim man

Mr and

y-~lectio

tried t s crzest t t Mo 19an Vias no "Orange" e O'l1g

adverse m r· on ad been only cat t e South

................................................................ - , however, i sisted t at t.e Unioni tart mu t lea!

t carefulo

"nterve d t s r sa~ ing that th

had not had muc ex erienc of fighting b ..... electi ns,o

remonstIate t at s rely that arty

e ina. i 4)

on intervene to StNgest that the onstit enc ........ ---~~ .......... e arne

decades 0

ci v·ons



- 3 -

The Ambassador re ate_ that the nil)nist apty co d not evad

res onsi ility'

l[x~ BUl")rq,yghs suggested that the Union est arty had. become 0 er .... ·

confident as regar t e Sout o Antl"ilu -Elect · on~

The !\mb§f:! a.d-,~:.. retorte Ie added that Chiche ste

for his ·ob.

that t Joe y just did not k ow t eir b sin·· 88·0

01 rk miE;ht mean well , but b was not a Ie

__ ~~ ___ U~IT~h~s reverted to the point about the Constituenc

ssociation being responsib e , but went on to su.'gest that refo IDS

in the Unionist Party's roced les were undpr way, and w w~d solve th~ t pl"'oble ..

The . Amba~2~ rem rked that the hearts of th Unionist Party enel~a ly were not in the rig lt laceo

that it depended on what 0 e meant T tt t .A.

right lac tt .

L~ .. Ambassador insisted, however, that the osition had now becolne

very grave - r"aver, in fact, than it had been at any time since

last August.

Mr Byl~rqw~l:!§ interj ected u otentially grave He

The. ,.Ambassa 2- re lied uno, actually graven.

!viI' ."§.Bpr·owr1l§ repli d to the e:i:Cect t 1st i t could be grave, but i t

could also be very ho eful

The Ambassado' re eated tru~t the selection o~ Morgan as a candidate had been a very wrong decision.

p'hs retorted t'b the Constituency Associatton u• ------The Amqassadg£ blamed the Goverp.Jllent for end.orsi ng Mor a ! s

selection.

urrouP;hs re lied emphaticall tlMor 'an is a better cha than yo~

s uppose u• The Government had ca c1..11ated the y could win the Sout'l

_4ntrim seat , but a swing had occurred., not to the Right, but. to t.he

Left. t was the .0 erates W 0 h'd failed to support Horgan.

re eated that th t merely roved that the choi · ..... e of

~d been a ver be one .

r r B rroughs r·e l ied that thel'"~e was not a wealth of talent , after

all from which to choose a candidate ~



- 4 -

Sir Edward ~ecl& concurred.

The j~ba~s~qo~ said he w uld ike to be very b unt abouJ this. He did not know Mor , b t he h:ad seen him on TV. vlorgan ha underrnined

o ' Neill and was ( in his 0 inj on ) t1very dimu. n putting him up as a

candidate the G vernlnent had rn de a ver bad decis ·on.

~l'J _I?:.qrroup;h~ re aIlked t.at they were kic1 ing thenlselves now. e confessed that he, himself', had not foreseen the swine~ to the Left.

The Ambassad~ ( uotine fr m his fil~ ) referred to the remarls by M ux~roughs at their previous meetil to the effect that the s'in£! to

the Right as a ~ ong Constituency sociat . on ofticia S l"lather tha

arnong the voters.

Mr 1l.urroyghs replie that he still believed that to be true, .es ecial

in t e rural are and, particularly, in the YJest . Since their last

meeting, houeveIl, t here ha been e. f "t .. er swi cr t o the Right.

::£l1e Anibassado in~ uired whet ... er he would now concede tat , generall

seeking , not just in the two eonstituenci s in whic the by~elections

h·3.d taken lace, but thl o~~hout th area , ther'e was now a swint:: t the Right among t e oters

Mr .. ~~row~hs re lied that he wo 10. be inclined to agree . e went on

to s .rgest , ho'~e er, t at teo inion expr'essed on this subject by

the unbe.ssador a the revious meting had been tfa prediction whic

turned out r i g t, rat er th!i a statement of facts"

The .Amba8s~dor retorted t at the fact w s that, in general , h "s

informat·o h d been better tha theirs, all along the line , for

ex 1, last Ar;ust , abo t Easte , and. novi about this question o'

the swing to the Rie t

Gir Edward Pee intervened t question the Ambassador t s statement as

regards Easter, but t en went on to eonfirln t at ther'e !\Tas a eI-eat need t keep up the reform rogrrumne.

t is

mr-de a very fil'im delcarat i on of ublin t s - osi ion on

at· on of ressing ahea wi th the reform l~ograr le in the fae

of Paisley ' s double victory.

Mr. . urroughs ao-reed that the Stormont Government must at al l cost

sticlr to its r'efOl"lm rogramme (rather t an try t steal Paisley ' s

C othes) . e c mmented that he h· d x-eason to hope the T VlOU d 0

so. Some I)eCent reln~r s b P5ulknp r, for exampl , wou..ld , he hoped ,

sound encoura ing t the .basQad r.



- 5 -

The ArnjJassad~ interjected that he did not tl"ust ffllaulkner.

Mr B\Y:;r.pyghs retorted 1fthat t s anothel" wrong label u. He went on t

refer to t'tle81~stt f'rom Stormont Cabinet meet i ngs which portrayed

Fa kner asbein r , al ays abse utely loyal t Chichester-Cl ar. c, and

went on to say that the 88111 thing was true of Fe:ulkner ' Rprivate

conversations.

Ml"t,_LQ.ngg,on inter-vened to expI·ess his support :Cor li'laulkner, who had,

he declared, the Inest un opular job in Stormont.

The , AlTlbassado,r inQ. i eel next \/hat ef:Eect he ( tl1"lrotlghs) considered

t.he acrrent of Paisley and Beattie to StorlTIOnt ·youl -, he.ve on the

Stor~nlcnt Govern..Y!1ent .

Mr ~l"t up:h~s rep ' 1e . that one would be a)prehensi" e of a tendenc to

tr'irn sails on the ref()rm p' o£:r ltne, but on the other hand , Pa' sley' s

victor had lad t1e erfe~t o~ convincine the Unionist Gover~~ent of the abrolute necessi ty fo pu:p lng t oLe Unionist Par~t of the rebsls

within it.

The [email protected] t len inC2. . r-ed w t-3.t he thot1.t;ht of the }\.lliancc Pa ty*

Mr r~oh:rh§ I~eplied th8.t e cons · dered it Ita n isance u• Despite

its clailns , it had vel~Y itt Ie real or sUbstantial sup ort , and was ,

therefo r e , ttpoli tically, a nonsence tf• The Alliance Pal.-.ty , he

continued , empha.tically Wel"~e ftmakine the Chic ester .... C arks of this

Vlo!'ld face in both dil'ections tt•

The . .t1m.1?-f.lsJia,dp .. r then saj.G. he rnust be brutally t:rank. The fact was

that he an ,the, saN' t j n.:::;s Clui te differently - er-hRps because

thei • informB.tion was corn. ng from dii~fer·ent Rourees. His· eo e

t ought the si tuation WI:; S Inuch more explosive t len theiri eo Ie

seern d to think. U as th r·e a -t.endency, .e inquired, to keep the

sit 1ation sirrmellin,- - rather than have it boil over .... because of

the General E ection

rr-o;up:l12 a 'ared to be ~'rying to evade t 1e point. He deleed

the oit ation was explosive , b,t in<luiI·ec1 tthow ex 1 siveu

he Alllbas.f?~ .. do£, ho~vevel'), ex~sisted , 1J lnting out that Mp BUI~:t.ottghs

hc:c1 not-answered the question he hod asked hiw... Ie then I~e..geate

the Clue st . 0

"you mean in London?'-

The



~ 6 -

''bec(.. use of the Genel~8.1 E ection'?H

He then said that ever one must try all the har ep, because of t .l.e

Gene 1'8 Election, to etnel this pro·blem olJjectivel , a d get the

facts right . He went on to say that he would reveel some secrets whic J.1 -r-haps , he should not mentio e had, in fact, he

continuer, 70ne to see Si1" Bup e-Tren(l, and wi th the 1 tter ' s

consent , had then a r02ched the Conservative Party Whip who had assured him there was a bipartisan policy on this · whol e uestion of

tbe North of I l'"lel anc ... ' Both parties are convinced t at the refol'llm

progranl!116 must be 8h dorward, irres' ective of the General

Election.

The b~ssac1o£ revel~tec1 to t e . oint that his inforlnation had

proved to be "tetter th_ theirs.

ML,~qr_;:.oup;...§ inCll.lired rat he "1 derensive y what more , in that case ,

the Ambassac.or would suggest that the British Government coul ~ d

t this stage ..

The .1b~~sado ... re Ij ed. that they hael all t e facts at theil·

disposal, they were ex erienced and on top of the problem, so that it wa.s up t them to see. i"or the111Selves what must be done !ext.

Sir' E<lL§:.£.d. Peck interjected "but you ave just said that CUI"

information is better thc;n curis".

~Ir Lang"don made a rer!lt...rk to t _e same eflrec· . ~. _ be+ ............

.-...; ___ ~_r_c_yg_. "1 ..... } ..... hiiiiiiirs. howevel') intel~vened to say there was going to 'be tro Ibl

ab ut the Central ousing A thority

rrhe .Amb e;ssado,r interjected t nt he would be comiDf; to that point

and would :have some other s o-gestions to make . First, ho"!ever , h

wis ..:~d to Blake the point that there was ever ·reason t fear the

reform progrr ~. is was slov/ing down aIld was no longer be ing pressed

v.lp Burrotlp.;hs sought to r~ebut thi s sugge st ion by refe pring to th

m ny recent statements b Stormont and British spokesme insistir~

that the reforms must go on. He then a Ced that many reforms wel~e

alread r on the Statute Book for all t see.

l.he Alnbassado..r retorted that having reforms on the statute Book

Was not enough. Puttine thenl into 0 eration 'Nas mtlC more 1m or-tani;..

Jir BUr:l~Oughs re ied u\v en people say this to me , I alway s ask

thern to tell me which or the ref"orms are not be ing 1m lemented tt .

The bas~ador ( reading from his file) mentioned-



f~.----------~--------------------------------

- 7 -

the S eCial Power~s Acts ('lJvhicll were to have bee re .. ealed)

the e islq,tion I _icl Vias t ha.ve been introduced t o pr'ohibit relig'Ous incitement

ur'y:ot~hs intel'lvene to say t at the ecial o'¥vers ets had their uses sometimes in a favourable sense ). He add.ed that th v'!ere not et clear as t vlhat could be ut in theiI~ lQC 0

rrthe Ar!1bas.sad~!" retorted ttb t would you have S eCial Powers Acts

in our~ island"

y

Ml~ urro_ p-hs , ignoring that ~ est· on, went on t way t at the ha

discovered that they mi~ht need to r-ely on t e 8p cial "'"'or,/era

at t i m- s to rotect the ~linor'i ty a.c;ai n·t possible attacks by ,th

Ri hto

Itr ..l8.r~don intervened to explain that the Al"W,y had, in :fact ,

occasionally had to reI on the S cial Povler Acts.

~~_ward Peck then intervened t o sa that s · nee the Army ha

erne in ( the Ambo.ssador would surely agr'ee ) the S Acts had not lDfen

used a.s they had een reviously.

The Ambassador uSurel in terms of human riehts - in terI!lS f

world oninion _ u -OU Non f t recs t is further just nov u

or' th '~ eas ns mentionedU

.!:1.t.q :9:8l!§ mVe msy ave to use the . ~gCtinst the Right tt

. r L_ ~d&.!! intervened at this stace to say he wished to Inal{

the point - and not. just as a debating oint - thL.t the

must sur-el T have ex =>!'ienee or QcCaSiOn2 when it was neeessar

to in-.::.ern ople without tliu , for~ rea onE known to them all.

~-f qO · ssado~ indica.te t at e took the point, 'b t WDIl on to in~u · re what recise meant

sa· (l t at t -le quec:tion of renealing the 3 ecia

POJerB Acts was activel T' oer revie 1 ' .

Ministers had been pre&si him to cet on ~ith it, since it was ondon, notel:r~Q , which had been hold.ing this thing up

. he .A.rr!Q.~ssado r t'London tll(

ic



- E3 -

'::he lu!1basssado r'ev e.J.~ted to t 1e ·oint t lEtt th=:o t i lne ..... ~8.ctor· was ------~-------~.-- -cri·tical and the situEJtion was eX·.losive , more explosive , -) l"hE( s ,

than t se in t hat rooQ ' r e aljsedo

Sir- E;dwaY'd eck in~er·vened to inauire whethel the Ambas' ido l" --- ...................................... ~

could tell then1 hovv the y COD c1 proceed

The .A.rnbassado r sai cJ 'L • t his v~inietep 11light. want to conle over t o

l"sue -'uhe n1atter wi th Mr T oms n. 11evertin g to

the I~~anRishts aspect , however , he sai d he must be blunt and must poi tout -

...... .;;..;;.....,;;;...;;;;.;.--..,;:;;;.;;;..~B;.-d..;;,o_ .... , on a new t'~ck, ointed out that the Home heel. un ex~tcken to i ntroduce egislation t prohibi t

r,eligious i nc i telnent , but sus£;ested that t here had been

· tttacks i e i ng U on t is question.

r r _~n£~Q1} inter vened to say that the Octobel~ comm1mi'lu~ . ad

contain d a reference to t ~1b subject , ana StorJrnon t had un'iel'

taken to rev iew r;·J.B ation on this t pic.

nb CL.ssaoo r said t lc .. t his briefins suggested t hat a Bill hs.

dr8ftedo

anrcdOl,l intervened t deny that he had ever see n s -ch a Bi 1

ll. :url'o.ug·qs adopted the sam att i tude .

The Aln..lLaoBgL repeated that he unCel1 tood t lEtt the eao. Q o~ a .. il1, at aot , ad been :prepared, an d presUln8bly Ci l"lc ulated.

I t ap'eared to him, ~owever , that ondon was no Ion e r res~in

Stormont to introduce lecis1ation on this sub ject ~

V .. I" B-q.r::r:oR',''); s deni ed this sugge stion, a ... d '7en t on to say th

roblem w01.:ud be to vork out a pr·opria.te wordinc which would

be enfox·ceeb e t o f ind the Ieiz1t :for-nlulao

Mr Lang dQ.!! i n tervened t say that , as f ar as he knew, it had

been agreed i n the cownuni~u that Lon ~ on and ~elr88t would Kee in t ouc h as re£?:o. ds revie .ving this matter. Therle vvere othGr

m tters also V'l ic were bein . kep t tmder 'oint rev i F.f , e . e* a.lle · ~ations about discrimination in the srantin )' of Goverrunent

contractso



- 9 -

IT ]3_1;ll:l~ty~l1S X'enlD.rked t at t ... e had eXI)erienced gr·eat difficul" y

in drafting en ' 0 ceable wordinG r.or the racial discriraination

e 1islation in Br1i ta · n - a problem whic was in reali t much

less diffictllt. a d COIn lex than the pro111em of r·eligious

discrinlination in the Nort of Irelan ' 0

Mr ~.a.n.e:don inter jected that ther1e 'ere tftechnical c1ifficllties tt•

!,r .. Burr-ou,p;hs added thRt it Was a question or the Par- iamentar·y

ra~tsman bein . unable to :rind the c.ppropr1iate wording.

Th~ Al1ba!?.,.SB.dor· His thr..t rea 1 the pOBi tionUo

e wJ2..ass~lor suggested that it seelued extra.or·c~j.na_'"jy that a

Bill of sorne kind could not be drafted to get the rnatter luoving.

SlJ.ch a Bill t..;ould be imploved _ater.

~v1r Lan.e:.do.~ y-eplied t:18. cit \fOlUd be possible, of cou!"se, Ute

through the moti ons of introc;.ucinE a Bi tt, 'but VI lat the r wante d

weB to draft e~fecti~e legislation.

rp)1e ~\reba.ssad.or uNo, aca-' nst njuG tice u.

--------

i Si.r· ,Edward Pegk changed the subject by rever1ting to the I l Ambassador ' s remark that his Minister mieht wisl to com to l .ond n for B further discussion.

TM e .AtrI.J2Ji.-fu~-= conf-o Y'!ned_ that such VIas the case, adding that hi s

IvTj.nistel'1 was ver· concerned, much rnore concerned than they

appear-eo. to be .

ThfL-.Jg.nbass~or next raised the question of C; . 3. J;:;as, mentioning

that he had been readiJ.1g" over the \lJeek-end ho r much d8jTla~e it

cod do t t h:; 1 un.:.:. ~ , i vcr , eye s, etc .

Il[l" -q~..:.9... r> ~ inter' 'ected "In the Sw::.c" ay ~(limesu

The, .Arqpas..§.ruio insisted t a.t t ere wac a.n urgent need to publish

of the Him ~orth Repo t.

there WOll d e d l: arlie.nJ.cnt8.1-Y 'uestion on

the follo\\j_n,-.~ de.y 'i'hic ',~/ould , h thOllg t, fur-nish S .1e

inf'o-(,ITl-::::tion on that subj .. ct.



o ..... ~he .A.':10a'p£.:lCOr c'aid t at Lublin ' s view '~1as 'jhnt t e use o:f C s. L~S shotJ~d be stolJpe until ar~t I of that report becOJ.e

av ai o-)le not thnt t 1(::; necessar~i y believed that art

1:0V8 to have been ~Ol')·Lh· wai tinz fop •

. -:vou 1

!.1r Burl"o\l.. "lQ S 'g~ste t at their infor·rl1ation was tll;:: .. t :!.2. cas

'. a 1::. not G.s.n,2C'POl1f', except when uSee. in ver'" cGnfined s~aces

1;' hic_J. were 9ckin~~. in v enti lation, and it was unlj.kel th&.t 8. S.

ga 'V'ould be used in s ch condi tions in t e r~h oj:") ---'e en •

inter'vened to suggest that the dangers :from the

gas had to be balanced against the dangers from shootir~.

'rhe Amb_a.fL§.gdor inCJ.uirocl Nhether the use of C. S. gas in the North

of reland had be~n confined to cases in Hhi8h its use was

unai7 0idnb e .

_-.. _____ '"""'-_~ l'eplied by con1mentin.:; thp..t Rd the troops use

first ni~ It o'!.' t e Ball .. i1urphy trouble, trouble Dlic:h

been avoi ed on the second and thi Po. n; :Jhtso

Th~~JIl [l8S8~OI' inquired whather tbe r had an idea ilt'hen a t II

wou .0 .. be pulJli F hf· d..

v! I) Butr·ol.:!t;h~ inaicoted that he had. no \,J .

Th~_.!!J sssado:r.-' t en in(~u:!.f't:d whJthel#) i:'8 lJhbli:!at1on was bein':4

evaded.

I.1r BurL'ou,..:hs l·eplied t : at hd r-ecal' diet not lcnoyr.

~.fr _}.g~pou.~.)~s Sl~Lestce t_ at sorrleon~ fl~om t e 'Et1bacsy S}1")l1 d tE'lk

tn t 10 i sarmament epa ... ~t !lCllt 0-:' the F (. o. • s ince th"-;' ,

" ll.:!nselves , were not the e "}?ert on t. e suoj~ct .

n .. e .t\.rnbass;?(:'or then -"'ecal. ed that TAr Rur,poU[)1S had sail':; at thei r')

previous rteeting th t t ere were 1. eop e in Der-ry who p:!.e:rerr~cd t

stay on the do e r-uth ~r tht.n accept elnplo I lent off'e.:. ed to t en1.

Dub in, 1C conti .. ued, ccntested that view vel, stronzlYIi I He then

\vent on to uote th,-:., fi,~uy·eB about enlplo Tfficsnt y l.upont vlic 1

fid been f' IPI ished b· ·j..h~ Departrnsnt ). "e went on to lnquipe

i.viethe r the all~( e 'l ·'ifficw..tiec in findins ern:pl0 Tee.s lad been ;t • . vOln 118 Slone

I{r~.-~url·Ol~hs I e span eet tLat the hBd, of~ course , since elnp o:rrnent

P10 'lle_ s uere one 0:' ~ e l1articu. a ~ re-occ;up~~t tons of t _. t

Co~mnis.J:ion. He c ntinucd by sayInG that the problem d been



-- 1) -

eY.:l)erienced, in articul[.:r, amone the unern 10 ed in t e 01 er

ale grou s but not runons t~ ~ schoo -le5 inz age rrou '. r, hovever, one had been unemployed for years and ears-

The Amb~~ador inter·vAned t. inquire y,hether by "older age zroups" ,

e pl~ oveI 55 were m ant .

Mr- ur;.:o ughs rep ied that, on the contrar , he flleant mue ounger

age gr ups, even those a~ed 22 and over. This was a ver- tragic prob ern. It a )pe~,red thav in SOlne cases their :fathers had never

been empl oyed, and no''ll they themselves were unemployed, and

a v ays had. been.

inquired w.ether this problem was experienced in

replied that it vvas experienced. also in other paces,

e.g. in A..ntrim wbere e personql1y knew a :firra iNhic was obliCed

to bring in ttcontract workers tf from outside the area. although

the firm was 81. rrounded in Antrim b lmem oyed peop e . erry,

howeve~ , was the wo at lit.

inquired a ut the mobili ty of labour ui thj. t

il:. __ u}:r·ou.:~;~ replied .I.,hat the lu"1eYlplO ed of· DeI-ry l)~ ef'er to

ernjgrate rath~r than to move to other plA.ces in the North of

~ re and, e . e;., Craigavor.:., in seare of vvork.

~ Al1bassac1or n l xt inQuired whether it was , perhaps, 8. quest i on

of the wa[-;:es w .Lie were o:ffe ed being too lO\Jv. Or was it a

,.ues.tio of neVi ski .... beins re - ired.

~r urr-oy,g,hs repl ie':" jn -he necative, aclc:ing that t. o erry

COITl.llission was now invo ved ful y in tr in'~' to introduce new

inclustr-ies to create mor-e em lo¥ nent. No1- nlany industries were

responding , however. Furthermo~ e , in. on e case ofl w ich he was

aware , in w_ ich Derry v.'opcers ad been treated in a c'j.ctatoria

va 7 ic- "S ri tis workers 810uld not stand 1'OI·, they had seer.f1 d

to pespond weI _ to sue trel.. tment . HO\JlleVer, t e mar:agement of' the

:fnctor co cerned (::';0 8 Gson ) had to1-cen thei · pr-ofi ts , closed

(o'"!n the f">actor'Y aId disap sr-ed.



- 12 .....

The _~Qbassador then broached the uest·on of roportional

Repr·esent::ttion. Thele lad never been a gre'ater need, he said ,

~or an e1 ctor·al syst.em w _0· C v{ou.ld l~ ef·lect the v iews of the non-

extreluists r'i"ihe election of Beattie hqd emphasiseC th&t pOint . He

hacl Y'eason to think s me thOU[~lt was be"ns given t, int~"oducing PR

of the SiIlQ;le Transfer'rable "\ ate. ~ut J ublin !l!as insistent that it

must be PR in the r'~~"al sense not the S V Systom), and it ynust -be

gi en urgent consi ration. Per a s it 0 ' d be reCOlnrnel ded :flor

adoption b t l8 Cro\ll:ther C 11J11ission.

!viI" Burr-our;h..§ mentioned that he had HI t "lith ust.in Cur~I'ie on

3/J-.+/ ' 70 and. the latter had advocate( PE al~-;o~ He himcelf found

the arguD1ents f01' it P ,psua.:.i re , and he lad, therefo -e , asked that

a thoJ~ouCh stu(ly be IT"de of' the Vf4rious for-ms ana. their like y

e~fect s . He t oucht it VI ule. help to so. ve the pro-blem of fi ~{in

new Loeal (}overnrnent boundar·ie s . .t Sh01 d help .1 event gerl'Y-

lnande ]'i nc:. e, himself, t oue It it should be consioe red favourebly.

l1basse.Clor inG.'; 'oc w at t e thought about i t themsel ve s

on i ntervenec to say that Ltb-bock a _ rai sed it during a

Cornen ns debate on the JOllth of I l'eland, and the H Ine Secretary ha ~

ind.ical"ed t. at he w')uld !lot fee inhibi ted fronl asl-in~~ Stolrnont t o

cons ' ~er it , - l"ovi de ' he , ~1im;3e :r, ( the orne 'ecretary ) \vas perfsuai:ii

of its advant aces. However, as h~ was not so p~rsuaded, he would

not r-econlll1end it to Sto mont .

\ r T.Janc-don went on to s,-,,-y t (t it' cou.ld be 8r;:ued t_ at the a.b Ii tion

of -R fo Gtormont e ct ion s dUI ine the f"'wentj.c s he.d r'1ude n

difference to he res~ ts

.:r·4r UrrO'L1P;hs intervened to say that he could see t 18t i m c;ht

possibl be v elY hel fu in tlie Joca Gover-runent elections if~ not

in the elections for ?tor-rnont . He confessed t at he h,qd not

stuCied it e Que:: ~o e' b e to say muc 1 lT10-·e about it

insist~d it wau d b very 'ood not on y for Locnl but aI r f'OI~ t:t l-)lTIOnt e ect ion~. He t'''len

went on t rev-iew t le ch~.l...,-, e ~Ol" th "'orst v'1ic lad been taking

p ace so r2.p · C. y i 1 recent '.veek: , and lilUSt be de .. 1 t wi.l~ wi t ho t

c1e18 •

1\1'" _"'ypr'o1J{:,hs intel~jvc ed t_lat e rflust cha len~e the undue ernr>hasi s

on Beat tic t S "i -.tol f in t e ty- e ect i on. Te T'epeated th t t ere

haa beer. c sw-Lr..&:: of ")nl j r 2/~ to the Ri~ht , ~;)nc1 j t 11as the S lin ,'

to the ..left, i . e too-arcs thr:: I.odepCltes which had def Jat~;d. r~lor·g an.



, r'Ti:r- Edws.r·d Pee _ ~ 'ntion6d at.

c.notllt;; r ap ... )oi;.t nent - at L~ .• _

e had • T1 .... 'Ii th jp Geoy·ge

T orrlson, is IIi iRte , so t.1at e ITlU.St cu:::k to be excused

soon ~hib developnle t eff'ective J conclud.ed ,he

I points such e. S., L 1.e (~:."iJ.e ~.t ion of 01 t.ica

..J:l§:._AI;1PqSur.dO ... l~, cone! 'J('i .i the diG ;ussion, e;"1/ressec1 iR

t..PDY'eciclt on o. t 1el y. Inetin: im, and r·ernarked t lat e ho :Jed that 18 hal not been too ~ mt.

1v11 at a • _, L se.r, 8111 oh ie;ed to be much 01' tep

___ A ... _ll_J.qe.8f~a ~9- inCi. ired :r ~!)rn 1111 urroughs as they moved acrOSE t le

loom ho'~ firrnly C 1j C lester-~Jlark ow <las in hi.C:i seat

rep iec1 not ~irn) ~r enou£h. T:;e ~1 al _lLve to work

harc~ to keep hj m ti:er-e"o

'rhe 'y!"h.QssadQ!: ~tI thirJ~ 1e is ver inSeCtlr'e u.

t~ •. k:inc hie :t·(l.rewell of Si)- Ec1waroo Pee , sA.id

.d be meet.ing again in anot 1er month OIl so, presumably,

b~t perhaps sooner.

holidc.ys.

... is Minister nex

RY in Br {sse s, ana fter t ~at rnig t b~ requc;l..lting an 8 . ointment l' The A.rnbassao;ol"4 mentioned he

or his ~inister in ondon t

Kevin RUB ...

April ~7 J 7 J

re Burne these discussions.

national archives ireland - cain.ulster.ac.uk · the orm r premi r , os tain o'neill, and ......

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