November 2nd External Affairs MeetingJOE

3.38 cents per student We pay 10 cents per page 547,000 for copyright (students paid) Courseware is decreasing and more profs are posting things online No royalties are being received (legally this is stealing) Courseware went from 3 million to 2.2 million in 2 years To make up for access copyright, our license is up in December They went the new agreement to be $45 per student up from 3.38 MDL and joe have a meeting with Anne Pontier next week for more

information Courseware needs to be printed before license expires Every student is paying $22 for access to copyright Our job is to raise awareness with students Issue should be in next weeks silhouette Subscriptions to Jstor – is that covered under copyright or is it a separate fee? Trend is moving away from printed textbooks Mac is expected to sell 10 million in textbooks (same as last year) – includes

inflation and CPI (which means its down) If each student needs to pay $45 flat, it’s a fair deal – If its $45/head + 10cents per page, then no. Western started charging $16 student to have a pool of money available Why this pertains to us?

Casa is doing work with this on the national level MSU is dealing with it on an internal level

QUESTIONS Justin – are we going to be telling students that fees will be increasing? Joe - not necessarily; we don’t want to sign this deal – university is

trying to get the cost reduced Tanya – our jobs is just to raise awareness on the issue Huzaifa – access copyright wants to impose fees on “linking” of articles

as well Siobhan – how do the fees that libraries pay for certain subscriptions

play into this …

Beyond the ‘BIG FEE’ the government is trying to add in a lot of extra costs Because it is a user fee and not an ancillary fee, they can just add it on What are the chances they will/won’t sign with access copyright? – we don’t

know University affairs is taking the lead on this project CASA is doing lobbying on the national level , not an institutional level Phil Wood told the MSU about this a week ago Huzaifa has known since June… obviously.

HUZAIFA Wants to have an EA policy on copyright access that supports CASA views

ALEX Blows his mind why all we’re doing is “making students aware”

Citing elections campaign as a failure MSU has to be at the negotiating table Unless we take a stance that says “stop rolling over us” --- they will continue

to roll over us Why didn’t members of EA know before? Why was this issue not prioritized? Disagrees with continuing failed tactics

JUSTin Reason we’re not at the table is because we’d be re-iterating what they’ve

already told us If this was something we could contribute to, but resalistically we’re just

echoing university support All research/stats comes from admin – so we’re just being redundant Awareness is key – at that point there’s enough student engagement to go

forthTANYA

Student voice will be the same as the admin voice University itself wasn’t sure how the issue was going to progress What can SRA/MSU members do but to raise awareness Doesn’t take issue with university – thinks they’ve been doing a good job

ANDRA Until university takes a stance different from us, all we can really do is wake

the sleeping giantHUZAIFA

At casa lobbycon we have a representative from titles University bookstore representatives/casa peeps sit at a table meeting with a

minister on this issue According to government relations officer it will happen after bill c32 – if that

doesn’t pass, errything will shut down As a committee we can do more research, put together an information

package Even though UA is taking the lead on this project, EA

ANGUS Students will mobilize around this issue because it directly affects how much

money they are paying Similar to the e-mail project

HUZAIFA At some point we need to put trust in administration Head of bookstore sits on this committee Access copryghti wants the copyright board of Canada to approve a tariff We have a bookstore representative part of CASA

ALICIA I can’t remember what I said – I’m taking minutes.

ALEX Respectfully disagrees that an awareness campaign is the ONLY thing we can

do Thinks there’s a lot more we can do We have power in numbers If we have student representatives at the table Doest think university administration aligns on the same issues as we do

we NEED a voice at the table what is the relevance of the MSU if I cannot start a campaign/rally? As a students union, what is our relevance? Its one thing to have meetings and discuss – another thing to actually do

something What is our mandate? What is our plan of action? We need to act on concrete

issues. This is the only way we can show admin what we’re made of We need to be respectfully aggressive

JUSTIN Completely unrelated to EA We are uneducated about the issue at this point  

TANYA Quality of education for CASA Accumulated differed maintenance Deals with university beginning projects that they cant complete due to lack

of funding Not keeping up with health and building standards due to lack of capital

funding We contribute to defecit Casa policy is vague and short – basically advocates that 3.6 billion 1.2 billion is urgent things that need to be taken care of (buildings falling

apart) Casa says government should deal with urgent issues in a one time direct

funding envelope (policy is from 2001, amended in 2005) Huzaifa is going to followup with policy director Mcgill daily news – university admin says feds last year stepped in to bump

universities off the list Wanted to launch the knowledge infrastructure program Mcmaster’s annual financial report has nothing about differed maintenance Mcmaster (we think) has over $100 million in differed maintenance – will ask

joe to confirm In 20005, mac has 178 million in deferred maintenance We have a lot of urgent funding problems If we are coexisting and learning in buildings that are not upkept, causes

problems for quality of education Things that need to be seen from CASA Policy… Definition of different maintenance Doesn’t speak about it in specific terms Hasn’t been amended from 2005 Need updated research on what figure is The fact that KIP isn’t mentioned is a problem CASA policy on condemnation of private for-profit pse institutions Postsecondary institutions that focus on people’s ability to pay and not

qualifications Casa gives a fairly detailed explanation of the situation Condemn existence of this institution Institutions in Ontario like this that exist are traditionally religious institutions

Huzaifa is going to clarify this with CASA – which institutions are part of this Casa thinks the federal government shouldn’t allow these kinds of institutions

to be accredited. Thinks CASAs position is lacking – but it’s merely just a chance CASA wants education to be based on equality, not bottom line Last time it was amended was 2006 The issue is QUALITY OF EDUCATION

JUSTIN 

Undergraduate education promotes innovation Policy to promote undergraduate research opportunities Strengths

Well-known proven fact that research opps improve student success Policy is needed

weaknesses Policy is poorly done Adopted in 2002 and no amendments since then No referencing – One reference to a mac paper done in 19— Make claims that it’s a beneficial experience with no factual

information – Good policy, poorly written Not lobby worthy

Needs to be more followup Maintenance of lab and equipment are not funded – these are indirect costs For every federal grant given, there needs to be an included amount towards

indirect costs This policy has been lobbied for Indirect cost of research program gave them some successes, but the policy

is much more research significant (includes numbers) – but not updated This paper has been accomplished Needs to get going