oak moss extraction
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oil from lichenTRANSCRIPT
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Extraction of oakmoss and others
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19th April 2009, 02:46 PM#1
Scentronic
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Extraction of oakmoss and others
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With all these ridiculous guidelines coming out that will probably put an end to most of the fragrances I hold dear, I'm thinking of giving DIY perfumery a try. But not just from the standpoint of mixing oils - I want to grow or obtain the raw materials myself and do the extraction.
I've got a piece of lake property that is just overflowing with real live oakmoss. And what the heck... why not grow some jasmine and roses while I'm at it? Add some vanilla and lime extracts, and I've got something along the lines of my cherished Feuille Verte. Of course, it's not quite that simple. But I could see myself getting into this. A niche perfumery specializing in all natural ingredients including oakmoss and jasmine. I could just keep it small and sell to friends.
So I'm already reading up on the different methods of extraction, including solvents and macerations etc.
Does anyone here do this?
Lately I've been wearing:Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah
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19th April 2009, 05:44 PM#2
ultranova3
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
Oakmoss absolute
Preparation of ConcreteConcrete is prepared by extraction (benzene) with yield 2-4%. Product will be dark green in colour.To improve yield, moss is immersed in water for 6 hours and dried before extractionPreparation of absoluteObtained via alcoholic extraction of concrete for 6 hrs. Yield is approximately 60% and the colour will be dark green.The mixture was cooled down in iced water bath before vacuum filtration to remove all insoluble impurities. Mixture can be decolourized by adding activated charcoal powder followed by ashless powder before vacuum filtration. Ashless powder will aid in filtration. Repeat Filtration as many
times as needed (if the black particle is still around, filtration has to be repeated)The liquid product was distilled under vacuum with high bp, odorless solvent and codistilled to give better color and yield of product.
When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile. Please discard organic solvent properly. As you know, oakmoss is an allergen, at the concentration you are handling, you should handle it carefully. There is a article on the production of oakmoss absolute with reduced allergic side effects (International Journal of Cosmetic Science # 14, Issue 3, p 121).
Fenaroli's handbook of flavor ingredientsBy George A. Burdock, Giovanni FenaroliEdition: 5, illustratedPublished by CRC Press, 2004ISBN 0849330343, 97808493303462009 pages
Last edited by ultranova3; 20th April 2009 at 04:26 PM.
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23rd May 2009, 06:40 AM#3
smellyliquid
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
couldn't have put it better myself for the oakmoss the trickiest part is going to be evapping the benzene and recollecting it (you should recollect it to use again)
maybe look into trying enfleurage for the jasmines, although to be fully realistic about the time considerations involved, its a hell of a job!
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26th May 2009, 04:40 PM#4
dcampen
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile
Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction.
Last edited by dcampen; 26th May 2009 at 04:41 PM.
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24th November 2009, 07:28 AM#5
gido
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
what about oakmoss infusion? no one does that anymore, but i've read that coty used it in his original chypre formula.
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24th November 2009, 06:25 PM#6
vonMises
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
Originally Posted by dcampen
Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction.
!!!!
Benzene causes cancer in about 100% of those who come in contact with it.
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25th November 2009, 04:42 PM#7
janmeut
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
Infusions are very uncommon in modern perfumery. Before the introduction of solvent extraction these were used a lot. I don't think infusions are commercialy available anymore.
More usual solvents these days are pentane, hexane and alike solvents. Alcohol is used directly when the extracting material contains no or little water.
As far as I know there are no rules that prohibit the trade in fragrance materials like oakmoss extracts, so purchasing them is probably the best way to get some.
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25th November 2009, 05:12 PM#8
gido
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
i am definitely going to purchase some, actually from you, jan. but i thought it might be fun and interesting to collect some oakmoss on a dry winterday, and to try to make a infusion like they did in the old days of the original chypre. do you know if the result would be any different from what you get with solvent extraction?
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26th November 2009, 06:33 AM#9
janmeut
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture.
The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple:250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised)1.25 liter Alcohol
Extracting time: 14 days
Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932
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27th November 2009, 04:37 PM#10
Asha
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
According to my herb books, infusion is actually like making a tea. You can infuse plant ingredients by putting them in boiling water, steeping, then straining.
Tincture can be made with oil or alcohol, is done at room temperature and is allowed to "steep" for an extended period (days, weeks, months).
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27th November 2009, 08:44 PM#11
Scentronic
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
Originally Posted by janmeut
According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture.
The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple:250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised)1.25 liter Alcohol
Extracting time: 14 days
Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932
Ok, so what's next? I'm totally new to this! I'm assuming some sort of draining/separation/skimming? What will these quantities yield? What kind of alcohol should I use?
Lately I've been wearing:Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah
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27th November 2009, 09:32 PM#12
Asha
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
Scentronic, I think you should use perfumer's alcohol, and let it steep in a closed bottle, in the dark, for several weeks. If I were doing it, I probably would fill a mason jar with the herb, and then pour the alcohol in until full. When you are ready to strain, you can use a collandar or food strainer with cheese cloth for the first pass, then a fine filter paper for the 2nd. I suppose if you want to be more scientific about it, you should record how many grams of plant material fills your jar, and how many ml of alcohol you pour in.
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27th November 2009, 11:53 PM#13
Scentronic
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
That sounds like it would yield about as much alcohol as you poured in, right? So then what do you do with that solution?
Isn't the idea to get it down into a concentrated oil? Fill in the gap...
Lately I've been wearing:Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah
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28th November 2009, 01:55 AM#14
Asha
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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others
No, because if you had an EO or absolute, you would dilute it. The tincture when finished should be ready to use, unless you want to dilute further for composing your fragrance.
Last edited by Asha; 28th November 2009 at 01:55 AM.
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3rd December 2009, 06:35 AM#15
janmeut
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You can filtrate the tincture, and that 's it, ready to use.250 gram oakmoss + 1.25 liter alcohol will yield about 1.25 liter tincture.
You could of course let the alcohol evaporate. I think you should do this in vacuum. Unless you know exactly what you do this is potentially dangerous, hot evaporated alcohol is -combined with air- explosive. In the end you will get a sticky mass that you could either call resinoid or absolute. The yield will be probably not more than a few grams.
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Hi Melodee
I dug up my notes on solvent extraction for you. Don't know if it will help ornot but maybe you can figure out a home method.
1. Plant material is soaked in solvent (usually hexane). Very gentle heat isapplied to the mixture, just enough to evaporate the solvent, but not too muchto effect the EO's contained in the extract. This product will seem creamy dueto the presence or residual solvents and waxes from the plants.
2. Alcohol is added this " concrete " and is warmed enough to melt it. Stir themixture. This alcoholic mixture is chilled to precipitate the non-volatilematter. The solution is then filtered and the alcohol is then removed bydistillation in a vacuum. The result is an " absolute "
Oils extracted by solvents should be used with caution on people with sensitiveskin as there will still be a small amount of non-volatile substances andresidues of solvent.
Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with oakmoss. Best of luck though!
-Christina-goody10062003
Morning!
Many many many thank you's to all of you who answered my questions oncreating oakmoss EO.
Unfortunately, your answers have generated a couple more questions!
If, the only way to create an EO/type of product with oakmoss is bysolvent extraction---how is this done?
I realize that in modern times, it's done in plant settings--mechanically operated proccessing--but at some point in the past, ithad to be possible to do this on a small scale--how else was itdiscovered it was possible?? I spent so long at the computeryesterday--I was queasy from all the 'bifocal' up & down movements,reading screens!
If anyone knows any good websites--publications--or just 'knows'about this-and is willing to pass the good news my way--why--I'llsurely jus luv ya for-ever!
Melodee (goody)..in Goldendale WA, where it almost is erie--the warm weather we'vegot---just HOW much did that quake/tusami MOVE the earth, anyway?