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OFFICE HOURS: CALL 4Transcript

Marie: [00:00:00] Well, hello everyone. It’s Marie Forleo. And welcome to B-School Office Hours 2017 call number 4. This is exciting. I always feel like I’m in training when I’m doing these calls because we go on for hours and hours and it’s just a lot of fun.

So welcome, welcome, welcome. If this is your first time joining us for the Office Hours, just a few bits of housekeeping before we get rolling into the Q&A. Take a look around your environment. Make sure you turn everything else off – so your email, any social media dings.

Close down all the different tabs that are open in your browser if you are looking at a computer. And make sure you are fully present. Otherwise you are wasting your time and your energy. And we don’t want you to do that. We want you to be fully present so that you can really listen and hear the answers and the questions. And of course make sure that your question hasn’t already been answered. But more importantly it really is vital that you strengthen your “in the moment” muscles. Your ability to single task and devote your full undivided attention to one thing at a time.

So really practice that for the duration if you can. We’re going to try and get through as many questions as possible. And in an effort to do that, I will request that you only ask one question if you pop on the B-School party line. So if you have several questions, please write them down. And then circle the one that is most important to you to get answered. And remember this is a group coaching program. So always try to frame your question in a way that isn’t so dialed down and specific that it’s only relatable to you.

So if you can connect it back to the content, or a concept that we discuss in B-School, that would be awesome. Now if you have a question, please press star two. That will place you in the queue, and I’ll see your little hand go up in my dashboard. So once again, if you’ve just joined us, if you’ve got something to share, you’ve got a question to ask, please press star two. And if you come on the party line, make sure you tell me your first name and where you’re from. This way I can know.

And of course, if you want to connect with other B-Schoolers in the Facebook group, or we have other B-Schoolers who might have resources or ideas, or even other answers for you, we can make sure to connect you up that way as well.

http://marieforleobschool.com/


So without any further ado, let’s get going. We’ve got our first question coming in from Donna in Hawaii. Donna you are unmuted. Go ahead with your question.

Donna: [00:02:20] Marie, thank you so much for taking my call. I’m just so grateful to you and everybody at the B-School. And I am sitting here on the big island of Hawaii and known as Mama Donna the eco bohemian.

My question hopefully will help everyone on the call because I am a multitasker, multi-purpose, eco bohemian entrepreneur. And I have been in business for over 40 years. I’m going to be 60. And I’m more on fire with this new business than ever before. And my question, because I am 60, and I’m trying to move forward in a whole different direction with this online business. And it’s a little intimidating. So I’ve hired a team … just starting to hire a team of young experts to help me with everything.

And I started a company too because I’ve most recently been a health and wellness coach for the last seven years, helping entrepreneurs get into business with a focus on making a difference in the world.

And when I was … at the same time I was writing this book called “From the Soil to the Soul: Living Life as if the Future Matters.” And at the same time I started a website. And that was what I was hoping would help other people too. It’s soiltosoulsolutions.com.

And I started it … getting members to help people who I was coaching … to help them get into business. And I got caught up in that. And at the same time writing this book, trying to build my own brand. Which was to help these people, and more people, to come on board. And I kind of got lost in it. Because I’m always trying to help other people before I help myself. And I know, like you say, you’ve got to put that oxygen mask on first before you can help somebody else.

And I’m struggling with that. Especially at this age, being a mom, being a grandma. It’s like I’m always out there trying to help other people. And I started over 11 businesses. Starting at 20 with an organic farm and then owning a restaurant in Alaska for the last 35 years, the first green bakery and café in the state of Alaska. And then I went national with an organized chocolate company in 1992.

And that was when people were really challenging organic and all of that. But anyway, my book kind of covers … it’s a memoir. And it talks about all of the glories of starting your own business. But also me falling into a compulsive eating and over-achiever, and over working, and getting up to 205 pounds and fat, sick and nearly dead. And coming out of that and how I’m the happiest person I know.



And getting into health and wellness and business coaching, has helped me stay on my path and help other people.

Marie: Donna, tell me the core of your question. Just because I know we’ve got a lot of hands up and I’m completely … I’m on your site and I feel like I get your Soil to Soul. And I just acknowledge you and admire you for how long you’ve been doing this and the many, many layers of your success. But let’s get to the kernel of your question.

Donna: The kernel of my question is how I can have a strategic focus while helping others and helping myself at the same time? And since I’m launching this book and online courses in a wellness business retreat for eco bohemian woman next year in Hawaii, do I build a home ...? How do I position myself? Do I stay … I have social media as … my social media is growing really big.

How do I take care of myself and promote myself while I’m trying to promote all these other people? And I have another … I have five different websites, which is crazy, I know. But they’re for other types of businesses that I do, that I’m in the process of selling. But culinaryhealingartsretreat.com is where I’ve been teaching classes and my coaching. So I’m trying –

Marie: So it really is about you’ve got a lot going on.

Donna: I’ve got a lot going on. And I loved … all yesterday I listened to one of them when you told that woman she needed to have more fun. So yesterday after the call, I went out and had some fun. And I thank you for that. So I’m on that path.

Marie: Good, sure. Okay. So there’s a couple things I’m going to say to you. So you have to know that it’s a beautiful thing being a multipassionate entrepreneur. But it can also become an Achilles heel. Because when it goes out of control it can feel like woah, you’re just overwhelmed with all of these projects and all of these ideas and feeling a little overwhelmed with all of the things you want to create and accomplish.

One story that I want you to let go of, and I’d encourage you to drop, is about your age and the fact that you’re 60. And I admire you, and I love how much you’ve done and you’ve created. But I don’t want you to have that, “Wow I’m 60. And a lot of this is overwhelming.” Because my sense of you is that you’ve always been a passionate woman who’s figured out how to get things done. And in my perspective, age is just a number.



And looking at your website and what you’ve been able to create, you’ve never let anything stop you. So I just want you to kind of drop that bit of your narrative. You’re an incredible woman. And you’re going to continue to create change in the world. And just leave that part of, “I’m 60,” out of it. Not that you shouldn’t be proud of your age, but I hear a little bit of, “I don’t know what’s up,” or, “I’m a little over my head with this technology.” You’re not. And you can figure it out.

And by the way, I also know a lot of folks who are not your age, who maybe are in the 20s, or their 30s, or their 40s. So they’ve got a couple decades behind you who equally feel overwhelmed with technology. And who are scratching their heads going like, “How does all of this fit together?” So you just want to leave that age story behind.

Second thing for you, my love, is I really want you to revisit the bonus audio from the early part of this program, “Strategies for Unstoppable Success.” I think what you need to do is create a very clear and concrete, and likely, narrowed down, simplified vision for yourself of what’s truly most important.

Because one of the other challenges I’m hearing as I’m listening to you is sequencing. Meaning, “I’ve got a book. I’ve got a course. I’ve got this retreat that I want to do next year.” And it can all feel like it’s just all on the table at once and I’ve got to do everything at once in these other businesses. And I think one of the lessons that I’ve learned in my experience that really helps us, especially as a small lean, but powerful team, is that we really take our time, and we calendar things out.

And right now it’s B-School time for our business because we’re working with you all. And the entire company, pretty much all of our focus, everyone is on B-School. And it’s only going to be in a few weeks where people will start gently changing their direction to the next project because we have things in the calendar and we know what’s coming up.

But I think for you, it’s going to be really important to, one, have a very clear vision, which I talk about in that bonus audio, “Strategy to Unstoppable Success.” So listen to that and do the exercise. Simplify your vision. Make sure it’s not comprised of 50 different businesses, or 20 different businesses, or five. Really take the time to allow yourself to prune things back. And focus on the critical few that are most important to you, knowing that the other ones will either be sold or they can just manage themselves, or they’re just going to exist. And you don’t have to take care of everyone and everything.

I love how generous you are, and I love how rooted in service, clearly, you are as a human being. But you’re very right. And I think you do have to remember that analogy – the age-old analogy of putting the oxygen mask on yourself first. Because if you’re out there helping everyone else and promoting everyone else, but you haven’t really gotten clear on your vision, you’re going to continue in a spiral of overwhelm. And you’re not going to make the impact that you are meant to make with your gifts.



So your clear vision, going back to “Strategies for Unstoppable Success,” pruning down what you’re going to focus on. And I’m going to challenge you to focus on less than you think you should. It’ll be painful, but it’ll be worth it. And then three, really taking a look at your calendar and going, “Okay. If the book was really successful, what kind of payoff would that give me? What would that mean to my life? To my business? What kind of revenue?” If the retreat was really successful, what would that look like? What’s that going to take to fill up?

In terms of team Forleo, I’m going to give them a call out right now. If you guys can post in the Facebook group in the Office Hours thread, that’s up right now, the New Year’s MarieTV that we did in December.

For you, Donna, you really need to re-watch that episode because it helps you start to map out your ideas and what I call prune and purge. Get all of your ideas out on paper, prune them back. And then start to really evaluate your different opportunities in terms of the payoff, in terms of the cost, in terms of how it really fits into your overall vision.

So if you could do those things for me, I can promise you that it will become a lot more clear how you should sequence your efforts and your projects and start to understand, in a much more practical and effective way, where your time and energy is best spent.

Donna: I so appreciate that. And just right now I can feel myself welling up like I want to cry. To just have permission to focus on myself and get this book done. I mean if I’m happy and I’m radiating calm, and I’m going to radiate that to everybody.

And everybody understands. It’s just having that understanding, and I just really appreciate that. I think that me choosing me to allow that to enter into my being was all the confidence I need to go forward. And with your three steps I’m on it. I’m unstoppable, baby. And I’m from Jersey, originally.

Marie: Go, Donna. Oh hell yeah girl.

Donna: Hell yeah.

Marie: Feel free to post in the Facebook group, and we’ll be sure to support you in continuing to keep your list pruned and to stay focused and to help you stay on track and sequence things so you can really get those awesome projects out into the world and not feel that sense of overwhelm all the time. So great work and great question.



Donna: Thank you so much. I love you.

Marie: Love you too. All right. Our next caller is going to be from … it looks like Laguna Beach, California. Starts with a V.

Valentina: [00:13:30] Valentina?

Marie: Valentina? That’s you? That’s you girl.

Valentina: Hi, Marie. I love you. You’re amazing.

Marie: I love you too. How can I help you today?

Valentina: Well Marie, I feel stuck with my profit clarity. And I cannot continue the program until I define what business I want to start online. I have two ideas.

And the first one is to open a blog for twins because I’m an identical twin. And I would like to connect with twins globally. The problem is I don’t know how to make it a business and not only help, but make money off of it.

And then the second idea is to do sports consulting because I have my Masters and Bachelors in PR marketing. But I’ve been doing real estate since graduation. And I don’t have the PR marketing experience. I know I can succeed a lot, and I’m a quick learner. The problem is how do I create credibility for my clients … future clients?

Marie: Great. So I love -

Valentina: I guess my dilemma is which blog do I pursue?

Marie: So this really comes back to … and I love that you have such clear ideas on the different paths you can go. And I completely understand that feeling of stuckness. I think most people who are creative and entrepreneurial have felt that and will continue to feel that at different segments



of their life. Just know that you’re not alone. And it doesn’t mean you’re broken. It’s just the stage you’re in right now of the journey.

So in Start The Right Business, which I think is exactly where you need to be right now, it’s about outlining those ideas. And as you’ve already identified, the blog for twins – there’s not really a problem-solution framework there. So from a business lens, while it may bring you joy, and it may be something that you just want to do. And it’s creative, and it’s a great outlet for you to share your ideas and connect with other people. From a business point of view, maybe not so much.

In terms of sports consulting or real-estate … those are two, obviously, proven business models. In terms of gaining credibility, what you can do in almost any field to gain credibility is you have to hustle to be able to get clients, and do work even if it’s for free at first.

Because whenever you’re a coach or a consultant, or a trainer, or you’re providing any kind of service – the name of the game, when you’re first starting, is you do anything humanly possible to get results for other people. And you do not worry about the money at first. You know that there’s a good business model there because you know eventually people will pay you. But when you’re trying to build up your credibility, that’s what you need to do. And I believe it’s the best way to not only build your confidence, but to prove to yourself and other people that you’ve got the chops. And most of the time, when you’re willing to provide a service and get people results free of charge, they’re willing to say yes.

Again, if you’re going to say, “I can get you X, Y and Z,” or, “I’m going to work my hardest to get X, Y and Z done for you,” within 30 days or 60 days, or whatever the time frame is. And, “I’m not going to ask you for anything. All I ask is that if you are satisfied and if you have a great experience you’d be willing to perhaps provide me with a success story or a testimonial that I might use as I grow out my business.” Again, you we detailed it in Start The Right Business, in painstaking detail, on exactly how to do this.

So I think, for you, that’s where you need to go back to and take every single one of those exercises to heart and do them completely. That’s what’s going to help you gain not only the clarity on your idea, but also validate your idea and get out there and start getting some experience, which is where we all have to be in the beginning in order to get to the next level.

Valentina: Okay. I do know that real estate is not my life purpose because I’m miserable, and I hate it. And I was considering maybe getting a job in PR marketing just to get serious.

Marie: I love it. I’m telling you, I love this idea. That was one of the other things to talk about in Start The Right Business. For me, when you know you want to do something, or when you’re



very attracted to a particular area of study or a particular field or industry. I am all about – hey, if you can go get a job. If you can go get an internship. If you can do whatever you need to do to get a foot in that door. Work your tail off. Start to gain the experience and the knowledge and the expertise, and the networking. Man, do it.

Because you know what that spells out, Valentina? That tells me you’re in this for the long haul. That’s about building a long-term business and career in something that you really, really love. And for me, it’s always worth it to do that “grunt” work in the beginning. Which is honestly the work that most other people aren’t willing to do because all they want is fast results. They’re not a long-term winner. They’re a short-term thinker. And I love the way you’re thinking. And I think that’s a fantastic idea.

Valentina: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Marie: You’re welcome. Thank you. That gets me excited. I love when people are thinking like that. All right. Next we are going to New York City. Tabush is the name I have.

Alice: [00:18:45] Hi, my name is Alice.

Marie: Hey, Alice.

Alice: I actually am in New York City. Thank you for calling me. I’m so excited. I actually have a company. It’s called My Makeup Brushes. And we’re currently in the process of rebranding.

To make a long story short, I would like to change my name because there is a company out here that has a very similar name. And rather than going through the process of a lawsuit and things like that, I decided that I’d rather take the opportunity and rebrand.

I’ve also been in business for eight years. So I was thinking of picking a more broad company name so that I do have more room to grow, versus just being very niche business where it’s like My Makeup Brushes: I sell personalized monogram makeup brushes. And I wanted to know your thoughts on that. If I don’t have an expansion plan currently, is it smart to pick a more broad name with the option?

Marie: Well, okay. Are you mymakeupbrushes.com? Is that you?



Alice: Yes.

Marie: Cool. I’m looking at your site right now. So I’m just getting into your world.

Alice: Thank you.

Marie: Gosh, I love that you sell these personal … I love it. It’s so great. So to answer your question … this is a tough one. And I don’t know if I have a very clear concrete answer for you. Because I could make a case, in my mind, of staying in the beauty world. But if you’re having little ideas in your head like, “I may want to expand someday,” I’m wondering if we can maybe brainstorm with you in the Facebook group about all of the possibilities.

I feel like this is the kind of question that requires a number of creative minds doing what I call “throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.” And then you almost trying on those names emotionally and energetically and going like, “Yeah. Okay. Maybe.” Because I feel like this is something we’re talking about it conceptually in our minds. But until … and I like this because I like writing copy. I like seeing words on a page.

Until I started seeing a bunch of other possible names, I feel like we wouldn’t be able to really direct you in the right way. It’s almost like coming up with a name for a book. You’re like, “Should it be this? Should it be that? Should it be something broad?” And until you start actually writing down those words on a piece of paper, nothing kind of breathes life into your heart. I could make a case for you going broader. I could also make a case for you staying somewhat niche, especially if you want to stay in the beauty industry.

Now let me ask you this question. I know you said you have no specific ideas for expansion now. But when that idea appeared in your mental theater, did you envision going outside of the beauty industry or perhaps staying within the beauty industry and doing more in there?

Alice: So I guess my question more is, I would only stay in the beauty industry or in the personalized industry or in the brush industry. Those are my three options. But my question more is … and this is what I’m struggling with. If I were to change my name, do I still want it to be … like My Makeup Brushes is very direct. And this is what I sell and that is who I am, and that’s it.

Whereas, if I chose … I don’t even know. I have to think of a name off the top of my head – somethingbrush.com, let’s say. Then I can have multiple different names underneath it and even keep “My Makeup Brushes” where it’s like a subsidiary of. Do you think it’s smart to create an “umbrella company” versus …



Marie: I do. I do, especially if you’re looking at … generally speaking, I do, especially if you’re looking at a little bit of an intellectual property bounce up against somebody else who has something similar. And like you said, “I’m not interested in going down that legal battle road.” I think it could be really interesting.

And I do think it’s smart to have something that’s an umbrella. And if that would allow you to keep the My Makeup Brushes brand without any dust up, that could be a really great fix. But I’m still … my heart keeps going back to … are you in the Facebook group by chance?

Alice: Yeah. Of course.

Marie: Okay. Cool. I still … my heart keeps going, “We need to brainstorm this with you.” I want a lot of minds on this. And I want to look at it from several different angles because it is a big decision. And obviously you’ve been in business for eight years. And you’re kind of … you’re looking at it from all different angles. And I feel like we need to put some possible names down. And, this is just my experience, when I start to do that, I usually get really clear intuitive hits for myself. Like, “Oh that feels … yes. That feels amazing. Oh my goodness.” And I see all the dots connect.

Or what can often happen is I go down that road and I’m like, “Nah. Nothing’s as good as what I’ve got.” So I feel like this is a clarity that’s going to come from engagement and not thought, example. And the clarity piece is going to be us helping you brainstorm around the different options. And if you don’t mind, I’d love to … I’m going to call in the B-School Mentor Coaches and everyone else who loves words. We have a lot of wordsmiths in B-School this year I’ve seen. And we can help you play around with possibilities. And I think that will inch you closer to making a wise decision that feels right for you.

But generally speaking, yes. A broader kind of umbrella name that you can have the subset under, in theory it’s a great strategy. It could totally work for you.

Alice: Awesome. Thank you so much I really appreciate your time.

Marie: Absolutely. And great site, too. I love your products. It looks awesome.

Alice: Thank you.



Marie: All right. We’re moving on to Monterey, California, 831236 go ahead. You are unmuted.

Stephanie: [00:24:32] Hi. This is Stephanie. Thank you so much for taking my call, Marie. I really appreciate it. I started B-School because I had started a global awareness campaign to end sexual violence several years ago. And that kept nagging at me. So the idea was to make that really a successful and sustainable business. And three days into B-School, I realized by doing Start The Right Business that it makes no financial sense.

So that left me just not really sure what I want to create at this moment. But what I am thinking is that I do want to keep the name which is Women Across Borders and then perhaps add online programs for inner transformation and maybe at a later time retreats around the world for women. But I also have a component where women’s organizations would benefit. So that they have their own personal empowerment, so social change can create it.

So my biggest passions are travel, women empowerment, and inner transformation and photography. But since I have not fully figured out how that would land into a business, I’m not sure what I should be doing at this very moment to not lose momentum. And what I was thinking is I have done all the exercises so far.

But since it doesn’t ... not that it doesn’t apply … not yet apply. Because I don’t know exactly what I will be doing. Would it be smart to start a survey for my ICA, which I’m pretty sure which group I want to be working with, and then see, for instance, what kind of opt-ins they would enjoy or what kind of programs they would enjoy? So that would give me more ideas, or would that not be smart?

Marie: Yes. No, I think it is smart. And I think it’s less about the opt-ins and more about just understanding the women that you want to serve and understanding what they’re struggling with. What may be bothering them? What are their dreams and desires? Because I think that will help you inform the business.

You said a couple of key things. First of all, I think Woman Across Borders is a very cool name. I like that.

Stephanie: Thank you.

Marie: I think you are very into transformation. You’re into women and you’re into travel. And having served, and currently serving, a very large market of the majority are women. We women like to travel. And we like transformation. And a lot of us are creative. And we like photography.


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So the idea of running retreats, a personal development type of retreat, or an adventure and learning, kind of, travel retreat. Those are very common, and that’s a very clear kind of business model. Of course you’d have to build up your following, you’d have to have a certain focus, but that is a financially possible business model, if that makes sense.

I think for you it’s about, “What form of transformation?” Because that’s a very, kind of big broad umbrella, ambiguous type term. So you have to start to get focused. Because that’s where interviewing the kind of women you think you could serve – that’s where it’s going to help you. Not necessarily about the minutia of an opt-in, which of course is important. But I’m more interested in you really understanding like, what are your skill sets? How can you help women transform? And then understanding who your market is and what they’re struggling with so you can start to develop not only the expertise, but the coaching and all the skill sets you would need in order to effectively run a retreat like that.

And I also just want to commend you as well – I love the fact that you want to build in the give back. And the ability to also support organizations that serve women that likely won’t be signing up for what could be a luxury retreat any time soon.

Stephanie: Right. Exactly.

Marie: I think that’s fantastic.

Stephanie: So do you think then I would need to have a tagline for my name? Like, “Women Across Borders. Transformation with Purpose,” or something?

Marie: Nope. You could, but don’t get attached to that. In my experience, Stephanie, I’ve found that trying to figure out things like taglines, especially when you’re in the stage you’re at right now, which is an ideation stage. And kind of proving out a concept. You’re in the early stages. What those can be is what I call creative cul-de-sacs. You know what a cul-de-sac is, right? Where you get into your car and you drive around, drive around, and drive around.

It’s one of those things that people can spend weeks or months on. And they’re like, “I can’t tell my tagline.” And I’m like, “Dude. Get out there and work with some customers. Just help some people. Solve some shit. Get paid. That’s what you should focus on. Don’t worry about your damn tagline.”

Stephanie: Okay.



Marie: If you like that tagline, you can totally stick it up there. Just don’t get married to it. And don’t think that it’s that important. What’s the most important thing right now is identifying a customer base. Just like we talked about in Start The Right Business. Who are the people that you feel like, “Gosh. I love these humans. I want to figure out all of their problems. I want to understand who they are, how I can help them. How can I create some kind of product or service that will help improve the quality of their lives?”

That’s where you’re at. And that’s where those Ideal Customer Avatar interviews are really going to help you at the moment.

Stephanie: Okay. Super. Thank you so very much, Marie. I really love B-School.

Marie: You’re so welcome. Thank you.

All right. Our next caller. We’re going to try it again. This is another one who has no identifying information. You might be the rogue spy that Darth Vader was actually looking for. All zeros – if you’ve been on for 31 minutes, say hello.

Greta: [00:30:04] Hello.

Marie: Hello, I’m just mimicking you. It’s you.

Greta: I’m so surprised that it’s me. I’m so sorry. This is the first time dialing in from Skype, and I’m in Sydney, Australia, and my name is Greta.

Marie: Hey, Greta.

Greta: Hello. Thanks so much for taking this question. So I’ll have to offline work out how to make my identification clear because I have a Skype name, I just figured that would show, so sorry about that.

My question is a pretty quick, universal hopefully, almost housekeeping kind of question. I’m still very much just refining the value proposition and so absolutely doing ICA interviews and the like.



Because I’m not up to speed with the current Modules my question was simply, primarily anyway, if I am hypothetically working through Module Three next week, and if I had a burning question that I couldn’t find the answer for in the answer vault, do people – does your team still look at the comments under the relevant videos?

Marie: Yes.

Greta: Okay, great.

Marie: Yeah, you absolutely can. Just so everyone knows because I’m sure a lot of other people have had that question as well, so you’re doing a service for all the B-Schoolers.

I just want to put you at ease. Loads of other folks are not necessarily “caught up” with where we’re exactly at in the program. And that is 100 percent fine. Just so everyone hears this, my entire team, including myself, we are scanning the back Modules. We’re doing our best. There’s a team of us doing air traffic control and pinging each other when we notice questions that are ideal for one of the Mentors or myself or someone on Team Forleo. So we are absolutely keeping an eye on you guys. Go ahead with your other question.

Greta: Brilliant, thank you. I have an interview with an ICA today, and I noticed that a lot of the questions that are suggested for the research interviews are about testing the hypothetical final business model and proposition that you have in mind. Again, in your experience, what’s your kind of top question that isn’t a leading question?

You don’t want to frame the question so much that they’re already thinking of that business offering if their genuine more burning need is slightly adjacent to what you’re talking about. Have you got any top tips, top three questions?

Marie: Well, I think it really depends on who you’re talking to and also what you want to find out. For example, when I was first ideating about B-School, and I was like, “I know I want to create this thing,” and I had all the broad strokes kind of mapped out in my mind, I just dove in. I knew this woman, and I had a personal relationship with her. So I could just ask her all kinds … “Okay, what do you think about this? And what do you think about that?”

And so I feel like the questions you’ll ask are contextual based on: do you have any rapport with this person already? How clear are you on your business idea? If it’s more general, like you’re just like, “This is the kind of person that I want to serve, but I don’t even know what my product or



service could be yet,” then you have to almost keep it more general and learn about the kind of things they’re struggling with, what’s frustrating them.

Hopefully you have some … do you have an idea of the area that you want to work in?

Greta: Yeah, it’s actually really specific. I do work with women in corporate, existing in an offline capacity. But what I’m realizing is that I think there is a market to go B-to-C with women individually.

And specifically, the need that I’m looking to address is the number of bright, high-achieving, striving young women in corporate who want an answer to the question, “What’s next?”

They’re always striving – so specifically targeting those in the tech companies, those young high-achievers. They aren’t necessarily happy, and they’re always never satisfied with where they’re at. And they’re always asking, “What next?”

Marie: So do you feel like what you may provide is support and guidance and skill-building to help them climb that corporate ladder or chart their own career path? Or is it more along the edge of life satisfaction and balance?

Greta: I think it’s going to be a mix. The work I do offline is about building women’s confidence and propensity to take action as women’s leadership corporate workshops.

But I think one of the key challenges for young women who are striving is that they’re not all … sometimes they default to the clichéd definition of success.

So also getting into just question and challenge themselves, so there is a bit of life stuff there. But it’s all about just really understanding their values. The insight that I’ve had is that, especially when you’re younger – I’m a bit older than that now – everything you think about is extrinsic and external to you. And you don’t spend enough time – I believe, but I’ve obviously got to check this – really being true to yourself and thinking about what are your values. And what does success truly look like if you stop to think about it, for you versus society’s definition of success?

So that would be, I think, a part of it, as well as the other parts I do offline, like the confidence building to enable people to go for a job promotion or quit their job – whatever it might be.



Marie: Yeah. So given all of that, I think some of the questions could be applicable. And you’re clearly a talented coach and a very smart individual in general. So it may be about really drilling in and asking, “If you could wave a magic wand and have your career be completely your ideal career, in 12 months from now, what would that look like?”

I think for you in Start The Right Business, I believe there is a section where I laid out questions if you’re a coach or consultant. You may want to go back there and review those questions. There’s three of them. And those questions really help you establish the gap between where someone wants to be, where they are now, and what they feel is holding them back most. I think that those three questions will really allow you – and of course you’ll change the language so it feels natural to you – but that will give you a nice three-part framework to really start to understand the worldviews, the value system, how these women define success for themselves and how they feel like they’re missing the mark right now, so that you can start to peel back those layers and articulate the value proposition you’re bringing in.

Greta: Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Marie: You’re welcome, Greta. Good luck. Keep us posted. All right, our next caller is Nadine.

Go ahead with your question. Nadine are you there, Almonte, Calif.? You may not be Nadine, but the number is 626617. I’m going to mute you back up.

All right, going on to Byron Bay, Australia. Jackie, what’s up?

Jackie: [00:37:56] Hi there, Marie. Thank you so much for B-School. I’m so enjoying it. It’s fantastic.

Marie: Thank you.

Jackie: The question that I have … it’s in regards to the Ideal Customer Avatar, that process. And in the process of Module One, I’ve identified that I have a gradual evolving process of my business through about four phases because I don’t feel … I’ve got this passion for what I want, ultimately. But I’ve got some education and some personal development to be able to offer that.

So it goes to through about four phases. I keep finding myself drifting to my end goal because it’s what I feel strongly passionate for. But my phase one is about using my existing strengths and is



a stepping stone on my path. So I’ve created an Ideal Customer Avatar, based within my phase one and just to give me focus there. But I’m getting a little bit lost in that process, and I’m just wondering if you can give me any advice on having that kind of idea of having these four phases. Which are really quite different …

Marie: Yeah, it’s an interesting thing. Let me ask you this. The four phases, is that for you? You’re like “phase four is where I ultimately want to be in let’s say four years from now.”

Jackie: Yeah. To give you an idea, phase one is what I can realistically offer right now, based on my existing strengths and my existing strengths are in bookkeeping. So my phase one is about offering bookkeeping services.

My phase four evolves into taking those strengths in a way and bringing them through. But phase four ultimately becomes ancient wisdom for modern business because I’m currently enrolled in an indigenous studies degree, and I want to bring that spiritual intelligence into my offerings.

So that will slowly unfold and evolve into the phase four. And that’s what I’m passionate about doing and offering. But I don’t think I’m really to offer that yet. So that’s why I’m sort of just keeping within what’s realistic for me in phase one, offering bookkeeping but I kind of get lost in that because this phase four is really what makes my heart sing, I guess.

Marie: Yes, I get it. I totally get it. I think there’s a lot of people that can relate to understanding what their core strengths are right now and then also having this vision they’re working towards in another skillset that they’re in the process of building that is extremely exciting to them, and something that they’re deeply passionate about.

So an idea that I have for you is actually about collapsing … when I hear you talking about these phases, they feel extraordinarily somehow separate to me when I’m hearing about them in my heart and in my mind’s eye. And then I saw your phases more like a Venn diagram. I actually started moving phase four into phase one. Here’s what I mean.

You can absolutely … what I admire about you, Jackie, is it’s clear that you have so much integrity because you really want to be able to offer something that you feel confident in and that you know that you can do an extraordinary job at. Is that right?

Jackie: Yeah, that was a common superpower that came through from a variety of people.



Marie: Yes, so that is one of your superpowers. And here’s what I want to do. I want to amplify your superpower for you, because your integrity is core to your DNA. You’re one of those people who is just so grounded and rooted in that, and that’s what makes you really good at what you do. People can trust you around their money and around their numbers and just around life.

But what I want to do is help you amplify that superpower. And the way that we’re going to do that is we’re going to take that phase four – if you think about it like circles, like a Venn diagram, we’re going to start moving four closer to number one and kind of collapsing two and three in there as well.

And what I’d like to invite you to do is to just start perhaps sharing some of that ancient wisdom with your bookkeeping clients. You don’t have to necessarily advertise it like that. You don’t necessarily have to put it all over your branding. But what I’m interested in having you do is to breathe life into some of this wisdom. Not that you’re going to have people necessarily pay you for it, but I want you to have it be vital and alive in your life, beyond just learning about it.

Maybe that looks like one of your bookkeeping clients … maybe that’s about writing them a little handwritten note and including a quote that perhaps is inspired by ancient wisdom. Or there’s something … these little Easter Egg moments that you’re able to inject into your business so that you’re bringing it to life right now. What I think that may have the effect of doing is speeding along your timeline and giving you a chance to infuse what your current skillset is with the thing that you’re also working on, which think is going to have the effect of strengthening them both.

Jackie: Yeah, great, beautiful. I think I have identified that. I think what I’ve been struggling with is bringing this … They feel like such worlds apart I guess, bookkeeping and then the ancient wisdom. And it’s time to bring that in and package it and market it in a way that makes sense. And I think I was just getting lost in that. So then I needed to just strip it back and go, “Okay. Just come back to bookkeeping and offer that.”

Marie: Yes, but also even the fact that you use the metaphor, “worlds apart,” what I want to give you is perhaps a new vision. You know how when the sun eclipses the moon and moves right over it?

Jackie: Yeah.

Marie: That’s why I’m thinking about phase four as a circle, phase one as another circle, and we’re going to bring phase four into phase one. So they’re not really as far apart as you thought.



Jackie: Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Marie: And I think right now you don’t have to worry about packaging and positioning, per se. What you want to do is continue to strengthen your bookkeeping clients and then start to sprinkle in some of this ancient wisdom and start to bring it to life in your existing business. And I have a feeling it’s going to start to take on a life of its own.

Jackie: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Marie.

Marie: You’re welcome. You’re so welcome. I’m excited for you, and I love the sound of bringing ancient wisdom into modern business. I think it’s really spectacular.

Jackie: Thank you.

Marie: All right, we’re moving onto our next caller from Providence, Rhode Island, 401644. Go ahead with your name and your question.

Shay: [00:45:12] Hi, Marie, this Shay.

Marie: Hey, Shay.

Shay: Hi. So let me start … so I originally had a photography business, and I found out when I started my photography business was that I was struggling. I was a new mom, and I was struggling with how do you balance running a business, being a mom and then also having financial issues and taking care of that and making the full jump to chasing my dream.

Along the way I learned so much. And then this is my last year of doing my photography business. And I feel like I was meant to do something else to help women create a more balanced and secure life so they can have the freedom that they can.

My husband and I we went through that whole process the last four years of creating balance and security, and we were able to pay off like $98,000 of our debt. So that way we can make the jump to go full-time. What I noticed is that every time I’m working with entrepreneurs, I’m always helping them, like giving them tips of how to create a balanced life and manage their money. And I think truly that is where my calling to helping women.



So my question is I don’t know if I should say “women entrepreneurs” or should I say “working moms?” I don’t know because when you were speaking to someone earlier you said that you had a personal relationship with that person when you were creating B-School, and you were able to ask questions. So I feel like I have someone that I helped her with creating the balance, and now I’m helping her with financial.

And I ask her a lot of feedback, like, “If I did this what do you think? Do you feel like it’s going to be beneficial?” So I’m kind of stuck between should I say “women entrepreneurs” or should I say “working moms” on my website or women in general?

Then on my website should I saw exactly what I do and what they would learn in the end goal? I want to teach them of how eliminate waste in their lives, so that way they can increase more time. I feel like we do so many things, but if we strategically have set a specific goal and learn to evaluate our life and eliminate the waste, then we have more time. Does that make sense?

Marie: Yes, it totally makes sense. Two things though – when you were talking about helping women create balance and also manage their money, like get rid of their debt so they can actually do the thing that they’re most passionate about, that’s way more concrete and way more specific and way more smart from a marketing standpoint “than get rid of the weight.”

When I think get rid of the weight of your life, I think of physical weight, like you’re going to help people lose physical pounds. And sure, that may be a part of it.

Shay: No, I mean like eliminate waste.

Marie: Waste. Yeah, I still think that … I’m just giving my opinion. I still think talking about balance and managing money is way more specific and concrete than even “eliminating waste.” Then I’m just thinking of pooing. That’s where my mind goes.

So to answer your question, I think that whether it’s women entrepreneurs or just women or working moms, that is another place where it may be a little bit of a creative cul-de-sac. You can definitely keep it broad and say “working women” because women who are entrepreneurs, women who are moms, and women who are women – anyone who’s struggling with balance and managing their money and possibly wanting to make that leap into a new career or a new business, but they can’t because they feel financially strapped, they’d probably identify with a working woman.



But here’s the thing about when you’re working on your copy for your website. You don’t necessarily always have to call out the specific human. Like in B-School, 98 percent of our customers are women, but as you notice, nowhere on the B-School marketing or anywhere that you look when we talk about B-School, do we really say it’s for women entrepreneurs.

Actually we don’t say it at all because that was a very clear strategic choice. I’m not saying that you should shy away from using the word woman, but I just don’t want you to get caught up in a creative cul-de-sac of “women entrepreneurs or working moms or just women.” It’s one of those things like you could close your eyes, do Eeny, meeny, miny, moe, choose it and get on with doing the work. That is much much much more important, way more important.

Shay: Okay.

Marie: Because as you continue to build this business, and as you get more experience working with women, you’re going to learn pretty quickly what the terminology should be. And that’s a real easy thing to change on your website.

Shay: Yeah, because I think I listened to your video about being a life coach and do you need to be licensed. So I listened to that video and I got three clients that aren’t paying me, but I’m testing it out, asking for feedback. So that way I can really have a better understanding of where they stand.

Marie: Yes, which is great. I’m so proud of you for doing that. Good for you. That is the way to do it. So yeah again, choose one of those words, whatever word kind of makes your heart light up right now. Know that it’s not a permanent decision. It’s a creative cul-de-sac if you spend too much time thinking about it. And focus the vast majority of your time and energy on working with those women, getting them fantastic results, understanding who they are and what they’re struggling with, and creating really smart strategies, ideas, concepts, principles and practices that then you can start to roll out to other clients. That’s where the majority of your time and energy should be spent right now.

Shay: Okay. Thank you so much.

Marie: You’re welcome, darling. Good luck, congratulations. All right, our next caller is from Toronto, cell phone, 416371.

Joy: Hey, Marie. It’s Joy.



Marie: Hey, Joy.

Joy: [00:51:25] So I have a general question, and you’ve kind of talked about it in some of your videos, but I thought it’d be a great thing to remind us. When you have something that you think is a failure, but it really isn’t – it’s like a learning moment or it’s a small setback – how do you prepare mentally … drag you down all the way?

Marie: How do I … I’m so sorry. Your phone cut out. I heard when there’s a failure or maybe just a setback, how do I prepare mentally? Can you repeat the last part of what you shared?

Joy: Yeah, you got it. It’s how does somebody prepare mentally so that when you have that small setback, you don’t think it’s like a massive failure and just drags you down? I’m coming from the corporate world, and I’ve never really had it because it’s all very structured. But when you’re going into business for yourself, of course there’s going to be setbacks.

Marie: Yes, lots of them. There’s totally face plants. There’s setbacks – whatever you want to call it. There are some stumbles in all of those experiences. Nobody gets away unscathed.

So here’s the thing. You’ve actually already mentally prepared with it because you know they’re coming. If you keep a sense of humility about yourself, and you’re like, “Look, everything I’m putting out there is an experiment. I’m going to work my tail off to make it a winner. I’m going to do my darndest to give it my best, my full energy, my attention to detail, the very best thing I could possibly do. And I know I’m going to screw up.”

Whether the offer’s going to flop, somebody’s not going to respond, you’re going to put a major spelling error. There’s just a myriad of things that all of us can do to really screw stuff up. But when you know that and you don’t take it too seriously and it’s always about the long tail, meaning one moment in time, one screw up, doesn’t mean anything. Once you learn the lesson you’re like, “Okay. Got that. I’m moving onto the next thing, moving onto the next thing, moving on to the next thing.” That’s what it’s about.

I think making sure that when you do have a stumble and you do have a fail, that you’ve got some people around you – at least this is true for me – that I can call and I can just vent and get that energy out and just have a moment with it. Like, “that was stupid, Marie. Yeah, okay. That’s what it was. Good, let’s move on dot org.” So for me it’s about making sure that you have people around that you can talk with about it, that they’re not going to let you stew in your sh*t for too long – a couple minutes here or there. And then it’s about getting right back in the game.



Now the thing is when you do have those stumbles and fails and falls – again, which we all do and we will continue to have – you do want to look for the learning lesson in it. How can I grow from this? What insights can I glean? Is there a lesson that I can hold onto that will allow me to grow so I don’t necessarily have to repeat this one again?

So it’s important not to move on too fast, to have the presence of mind to investigate, to be curious. Sometimes things are completely out of your control and it’s just the way the cards fall. Somebody didn’t like you. They rejected you. Something happened with technology. You just did the very best you could, and there’s really nothing you could have done better.

And other times there’s some very valuable lesson to learn when the you-know-what it’s the fan. So in terms of mentally preparing, if you just listen to this portion of the audio again and again – you can put it on replay – that’s all you need to do.

Keep your sense of humor, know that nine times out of ten people are so completely engrossed with their own lives and their own sense of fear about being inadequate and not being good enough and being behind then man, they ain’t paying attention to your flops and failures.

They maybe look at it for like a hot minute, but most people, most of us, are so just scrambling to keep our head above water we’re not going to be thinking about you and your flop very long. Because if you get right back in the game, and you start putting your best foot forward, and you keep moving ahead, people won’t even remember.

Joy: That’s an awesome summary, and I am so going to replay this and listen to this a couple times to get everything that you packed in there. Thank you for your energy, Marie.

Marie: You’re so welcome. And again, don’t take it … we all know. I like saying this. I think it really is a good reminder: we are all on the train heading to the same destination. We are, right? We don’t know what happens in that other world or whatever you believe in, but we know we are all heading there.

So the time between then and now we’ve got to do our best to really make it a party. Yes there’s going to be stressful situations, and yes we are going to have heartbreaks and we’re going to have things that occur in our life that are going to drop us to our knees and have us in positions of crying, grief and loss.

Those things are guaranteed for every human. But apart from those, we’re also going to create a



lot of magic, and we’re going to have a lot of fun. And so much of that is up to us. If we’re going to choose to be in a state of playfulness and a sense of humor and not taking things too seriously. If no one passed away by your mistake, if you’re not in an ER situation, nine times out of ten the thing that you think is a huge screw up is something that’s really not. So you’ve got to also keep it in perspective as well.

Joy: Awesome. Thank you.

Marie: Thanks, Joy. All right, our next caller, let’s see here … we are going over to Sherry. Sherry you are unmuted. Sheryl … that could be it, Sheryl Bernstein?

Sheryl: That’s me, yes.

Marie: Hello you.

Sheryl: I could not let this go by without talking to you personally, getting your energy. So cool.

Marie: Yay!

Sheryl: [00:57:01] This must be so fun for you. You’re like an old west sharpshooter – when they shoot in the front and then over the shoulder and then under their leg and then spin around.

Marie: Sheryl, that’s what I was doing in Disneyland last week. I had never been in the “Toy Story” ride before. Somehow that had eluded me, and I was riding around in this little cart, and it had all these little laser guns. Ping ping ping ping ping! It was super fun. Anyway, I digress. How can I help you today, Sheryl?

Sheryl: Okay. I will go direct to my question, and then you can ask me questions. I do not know how to label myself or what I do because I’m a multi-doer.

Marie: Passionate. Yeah, you’re a multi-everything. I get you.



Sheryl: So what should I tell you – a little something-something of what I do?

Marie: Yeah, tell me about a few things that you do, or the main thing that you’re focused on, or the main one or two things that you’re focused on right now. That would be helpful.

Sheryl: I help, usually, women startup entrepreneurs create titles for their programs, plan out the modules for their programs, get clever names for things. I edit copy. I uplift with The Law Of Attraction coaching if there’s fears and blocks and things stopping them – just basically like a professional masterminder or a pop-up … almost.

Marie: You’re almost like a course creation Sherpa, aren’t you? You help bring these things to life.

Sheryl: Yeah, although I don’t create the course. I do all the namings and the structure. And how do they want to do it? Do they want it to be one-on-one, online? What’s your phase. And pricing too – I know how to do pricing.

Marie: Yeah, I still think … not that you have to use that phrase, by the way … but just for the purposes of us having some fun on the call. I know you don’t create it for them because that’s what the course creator has to do, but you do advise them and you do help kind of midwife it and bring it to life.

I know because I’ve met so many folks who want to have their own courses and figuring out the architecture of it, the sequencing, the titles, how many modules, yada, yada, yada. It’s a big thing, and it can get many people caught in some very just, oh my goodness, insular creative cul-de-sacs where they’re spinning around those questions for months and years. And I’m like, “Dude, make a decision. Just put it out there because you’re probably going to change it after you’ve had students. You’ll work through it as you go.”

I think the way that you described it, Sheryl, was very clear. I mean you work on the copy. You work on creating titles. You work on helping them decide whether it’s one or many, or is there in-person coaching or is there any kind of interactive component? You really help them lay out the whole design course structure and help them kind of put some meat on the bones of their architecture.

Sheryl: That’s right. That’s right. That is it.



Marie: Yeah, totally.

Sheryl: So just say it?

Marie: I think so. And would encourage you, Sheryl, because I know there are a lot of people listening right now like, “Who the hell is Sheryl? I need Sheryl.” I can hear it. Oh my goodness, it’s like a roaring crowd running behind me. I can hear the stomping and see the dust.

What I would encourage you to do, my love, is post in B-School because our B-School Mentor Coaches, specifically around copy, will be able to help you.

And here’s one thing I do want to say too. I can almost guarantee this. Sheryl, help me out here. When you’re working with other people, do you not find it pretty damn easy to come up with some titles and copy, right?

Sheryl: Yeah.

Marie: But isn’t it so funny that when it comes to ourselves … and this is everybody has to really get. It is challenging as hell. That’s why people are like, “Oh my God, I feel like I’m a good marketer, but when I come to my own stuff …” I’m like, please, we all have to just settle down and realize our own stuff is the hardest to unpack because we’re so close to it. It’s like you can’t see the forest for the trees.

So I think you should post in the Facebook group. You should allow the B-School community – our Mentor Coaches, all of us – to just help contribute and spitball some ideas for you so that you have a few different ways, maybe just a few different sentences, that you can practice and see what feel really authentic to you.

So that you’ll have a few things that roll off your tongue and that feel really genuine, that they’re aligned with the types of things that you do. So that when people ask you about it, specifically in this context, that you’re like, “Yeah, that’s exactly what I do.”

But I will tell you this. This is for everyone listening. I’ve told this story times, but I always feel like it’s a good reminder.



Many, many business coaches (and it’s a smart recommendation) will drill into people, “You need to have your elevator pitch. You need to have that one sentence where you really describe what you do in a very clear and succinct way.” Again I will raise my hand and say, “Amen. That is a very smart thing to have.”

In over 17 years, I have never, ever had it. I have never ever, ever been able to succinctly, in one clear sentence, and say it the same way every single time, respond to people, when I meet someone who has no clue what the hell I do, be able to answer that question in a way that’s like, “Yeah, that’s exactly …”

I change it up every time, Sheryl. But I also want to give you permission. After you have gotten some great spitballing in terms of copy from the group, I also want to give you permission to once that’s in your bones to let it just riff. Depending on who you’re talking to you can just your messaging. You can ask them questions. You can kind of be silly with it, and I find that to be often the most fun.

Sheryl: I love that because if they need copy editing, I happen to be the queen of copy editing.

Marie: Yay, I wish there were more people like you on the planet. It is such an important skillset. And I’m so thrilled that you’re here in B-School. So yeah, go ahead and post it in the Facebook group. You’re going to have lots of new fans, I guarantee it. And we’ll have some fun helping you create a few sentences that really feel genuine to how you want to express yourself.

Sheryl: Thank you. And I want to throw this out for the gal who does the makeup brushes. This name came to me – Brush with Beauty.

Marie: Brush with Beauty … let me see if I can remember her first name. You might be able to catch her in the Facebook group as well. It might be Alice. She might have the makeup brushes.

Sheryl, if you want to go look her up, I think it was MyMakeupBrushes.com. If you Google her, you can probably find her contact information on her site – just in case she’s not floating around on the Facebook group. She should be, but I think that’s Alice.

Sheryl: Okay. I’ll find her, I’ll find her. Thank you so much. It was great.

Marie: [01:04:00] Thank you. All right, our next caller, we are going over to Twin Cities, cellphone, 612-867.



Dawn: Hello.

Marie: Hi.

Dawn: Can you hear me?

Marie: Hi there. Yes, I can. Hello.

Dawn: My name’s Dawn. I actually live in Atlanta, but I’m from the Twin Cities, the best place on earth, the mini-apple.

So I’m a new mom. Let me just start by saying that. I have a four-month-old daughter. And I took B-School because I have had a business for 10 years, and my husband recently joined me in my business about a year and a half ago. And we have a brick and mortar business. It’s like a wellness studio where we offer a kind of movement called Gyrotonic, which is similar to Pilates and that kind of thing. He’s also a massage therapist.

And for the last year I’ve been really … even more than that, maybe two or three years … I’ve been really feeling a pull away from the brick and mortar business into more of a coaching, consulting realm. And I got my coaching certification, and I’ve been really just struggling with how to transition that and how to find the right niche. And I’ve been sticking with health and wellness because that’s what I’ve been in and that’s where I feel like my skills are. That’s where my current clients are.

Anyway, but I’ve just been really feeling a block with moving forward with it and really making this transition. And I don’t know if it’s because I’m not hitting the right mark with the right clients. I feel confident as a business owner that I can create clients. But I just don’t feel like I’m able to creating coaching clients, if that makes sense. So I’m wondering if I’m hitting the wrong mark or if I shouldn’t be transitioning out of my brick and mortar business. I don’t really know. So anyways, I just thought I’d reach out.

Marie: I can feel you, Dawn. I love it. First of all, I love that you put this out there. And by the way, congratulations on your daughter and congratulations on having a business for 10 years. And congratulations on working with your husband. That’s a whole bunch of awesomeness right there.

Dawn: I know – all in one year.



Marie: Woman! Amazing. So I have some thoughts for you on this. When I was listening to you, the first thing that came into my intuitive channel was to not push it on the coaching right now. If it’s possible, I’m going to encourage you to go through the rest of B-School and to even psychically release yourself from figuring out your coaching niche.

I love that you have that certification, but my sense – and again this is just purely based on intuition, so you can take it or you can leave it. I want to see you just go through B-School, have conversations, look at things with that childlike curiosity and just be completely open.

Because I have a feeling there’s something around the architecture of how your mind has coaching configured right now that feels really confining and small and off-track. Where I feel there’s something else for you that is … it’s almost like a little flower that hasn’t sprung up from the ground yet. Do you know what I mean? We can’t see it because it’s underground.

But if you’re willing to kind of hang out in the unknown for a little bit, be really playful. Be open – like “maybe I shouldn’t transition, maybe I will” – not be attached to a particular outcome at least for the next three or four weeks while B-School’s happening. And just stay engaged and playful with the content. I know that can seem almost like a strange recommendation like, “well, if I don’t know the idea I’m working on, how will I do the Fun Sheets?” I hear other people saying that. But I think you get it, Dawn, of just kind of absorbing the information and letting it wash over you and letting your mind stay really open to other possibilities.

I also think staying engaged with the Facebook group and seeing other people’s ideas and what they’re working on … I just have this strong sense in my heart. Either how you’re going to reinvigorate your brick and mortar or the other thing that you’re meant to transition into isn’t quite ready yet – whether it’s the coaching piece itself or it’s something completely different. So if you’re willing to just stay engaged but stay open, I think it’ll come if you’re patient.

Dawn: Yeah, that makes sense. I think part of the stress that I’ve been feeling is around feeling like I need to make this transition because I have this baby now, and I don’t want to be in the studio as much. But also the reality is the studio is our entire family livelihood. And my presence in it is actually really important in terms of marketing and doing other elements of it, other than actually having a one-on-one client relationship role.

So yeah, I appreciate that, just staying open and letting … just waiting for whatever needs to happen next to spring up on its own, rather than trying to force it.

Marie: Yeah. And a lot of what you’re learning in B-School, hopefully, will be applicable to your in-person studio, because again, while it’s there, so matter what you may transition into at some other point, you may get some great ideas to make your studio even more powerful, to make your marketing more impactful, to create an even better customer experience.



That’s a joyful way to be spending your time and energy while you know this other thing is rising up within you, it’s just not ready yet. It’s that phrase, you cannot rush clarity. I feel like right now we kind of know something’s bubbling up. It’s just the soup hasn’t cooked quite yet.

For me, when I’m cooking my 12-hour sauce, if I taste the sauce too soon, like in hour one and two, it doesn’t taste anything like it’s going to taste when it’s at 12 hours. And if I judged it based on that I’d be like … I’d throw the thing out. But for you I feel like it’s a little … we’re only in hour four of the sauce, and we’ve got to give it a little bit more time to marinate.

Dawn: Yes, all right. Thank you so much, Marie. I really appreciate it.

Marie: You’re welcome. You’re so welcome. All right, our next caller, let’s see … we are going to Wilmington, North Carolina., Buckley.

Buckley: Hey.

Marie: Hello.

Buckley: [01:10:29] Hey, how’s it going?

Marie: It’s going fantastic. How are you, Buckley?

Buckley: I’m good. I’m relocating to another room so you can hear me. I was in a bad reception area. Yeah, so I’ve got I think a fairly simple question. I’m a mostly-recovered perfectionist. I’ve kind of been going through this journey of creating a course and kind of putting everything I know into this thing and just learning, for the first time, how to do business and sell things online and all that kind of stuff.

And I’m kind of proud of myself for learning how to continue to move forward and not get stuck on details, which I’m really good at getting stuck on details. So throughout this whole thing I’ve been moving and moving and keeping going and keeping forward. And I’ve kept up with the class. However, I got derailed lesson five, Module Two, on SEO. I got as far through it as I could, and I was like, “I’ve got to move on.”



So I did, and I’ve hit it again with lesson four in Module Three where we kind of go back to keywords again and the Google Adwords. So I’ve kind of put these things aside. I’ve done as much of them as I could. I put them aside. But I’ve got a friend who’s everything online, SEO web expert. He does it for a living, and he made the comment that, “You really have to start with your keywords. Everything else that you do with your site and everything else is built on the foundation of your keywords.”

And so I kind of wanted to ask you. Can I continue to move forward with everything in this class, and even with my website, and go back to the keywords later? Or do I really need to nail that down, at least where my website’s concerned? I mean obviously continue with the class, but where my website’s concerned, figure out the keywords and then continue.

Marie: Yes, Buckley, I am so happy you asked this question. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You just laid it up perfectly.

So a couple of things that I really want to say. As it relates to your website and SEO … and by the way, I love that you have a friend who actually does this stuff for a living. And it’s kind of one of those instances, right. If you have a doctor, and you went to your doctor friend, and you’re like, “Something hurts.” And they’re like, “we want to operate. There’s something wrong there,” because they’re a doctor, and that’s their expertise.

I need to tell you this. I started my website and my business not knowing nothing about keywords – 99.9 percent of all the content I have created for free that has fueled my entire business and brand has not been done with keywords in mind. It has all been done based on what I know I want to talk about, what I feel will be of most service to my customers, my audience, my clients, and went on pure passion.

Now there are so many people out there. That’s not the smartest thing you could do. And the whole reason that we gave nods to SEO in B-School, meaning in Module Two and again in Module Four, because I felt it was the responsible thing to do. First of all, I have over 30,000 students, and many of them are like, “Please teach us something about SEO.”

I’m like, “Look, guys, I’m going to be really transparent about this. I never used any of that to build the business.” But I also have a lot of friends in the industry, probably very much like your friend, who is an expert in SEO, who said, “Guys, you need to know this stuff.”

So we put that in there so that we would give people just a baseline. As you know, and as most people are familiar with SEO, you can go very, very far down a rabbit hole. That’s people’s entire businesses. That’s all they focus on.



But I do want to say this. I believe … and you’re going to make the best choice for yourself because I love that you’re a recovering perfectionist, I love that you’re very proud of yourself for keeping it moving – I’m giving you so many high fives right now because I think that’s huge.

I believe – and this is my perspective – that you can absolutely move on and you don’t have to get all that keyword stuff right now. I believe the quality of your content, if you’re able to hustle your buns off to get people in your course to connect with others, to do all of the relationship building.Whether it’s using social media, using email, using in-person connections to really take care of humans, that those connections and the integrity of your content is way more important than nailing some of the specifics of SEO.

Buckley: So counting largely, once I’ve begun to get the word out, counting largely on word of mouth of happy customers.

Marie: Correct.

Buckley: Okay.

Marie: Now, if you’d like to pause, and you’re like, “No, I see this SEO thing as a challenge, and I’m going to give myself two days to figure out some keywords, and I’m going to nail this website,” you will get me cheering you and high fiving you.

My job is to give you guys the education, tools and the awareness to make good choices for you. I’ve had B-Schoolers who they’re like, “Oh my God. This SEO thing, you just saved my life. I never understood it before. Now I understand it. I’ve got it. I’m moving on.”

But if it’s a point of stopping you … Buckley, where you are right now is like … it’s just taken out all your mojo, you’ve got to really make that choice. Are you going to view this as a challenge that you’re going to totally dominate and crush, and you’re just going to give yourself a time limit of a day or two days or three days to just get something done and then revisit it perhaps in three months or six months when you’re even more clear?

Or you’re like, “F*ck it. I’m going to leave this stuff to the side. I’m going to completely focus on my course, high-quality content, relationships, word of mouth. That’s where I feel like my big strength is. That’s where I can really lean into my DNA and what I’m best at,” then that would be the best choice for you. Does that make sense in terms of making that decision?



Buckley: Absolutely. That’s kind of been my MO. That’s been my inertia is just charge forward, just charge forward, just charge forward. Don’t stop. Just keep going. So I didn’t want to stop for the SEO. So what you’re saying is great. That’s kind of what I want to hear.

So I’m going to be charging forward, and when I can, when I have time, when things are up and running, I’ll talk to my friend and see if I can a little more specific help from him. But yeah, that sounds great.

Marie: Yeah. Again, he will probably tell you, “No, man. You need to get this, and you need to nail it now.” But I will tell you, myself and there’s many other people that I know, who run successful online businesses that create helpful, useful, popular content who the first thing you’re thinking about is not SEO.

I can think of a couple names, like my friend Seth Godin. Seth, when he writes … I don’t know if you’re familiar with Seth’s work. He’s not thinking about SEO. I can tell you that. Seth is writing what he cares about. He is one of the most consistent people in the world, blogs every single day.

Another one of my friends, Tim Ferriss, he’s not really thinking about SEO when he does his content. Tim’s a very smart marketer, but I just know him because we talk. And it’s like he’s not trying to figure out keyword stuff. It’s just not how he operates. It’s about the integrity of his content, and it’s about putting out great stuff consistently and building a body of work that he can be proud of over a long period of time.

That has been my method as well. Again, I’m not saying that it’s for everyone. Some people love to dive deep into the details of SEO. And God bless them. We need those humans on the planet because they understand those things. But you don’t have to do it that way.

Buckley: So what do you think is the first move then for getting the word out? I’m nobody. Tim Ferriss is huge. He’s got a book, and he’s great and Seth Godin …

Marie: Yeah, but he started out … Both of those guys started out as nobody. I knew Tim right when his first book opened. There were not that many people noticing him then.

Buckley: Okay.

Marie: So we all start out at that same place. So to answer your question, what we talked about



in Module Three in terms of creating a content plan that really works for you and your business. And then Module Four we’re going to be talking about ways to generate traffic to your site, which includes mostly free, but then one smart inexpensive paid method, which is inexpensive Facebook ads. That’s coming up in Module Four.

Buckley: Awesome.

Marie: That’s all about getting the word out and building the traffic to come to your list. Again, I built my whole business using free methods. Facebook marketing and the ability to buy that kind of inexpensive traffic didn’t even exist when I was building it. But now you have that lesson for you guys for whoever wants to have that. And then it takes off from there. So all that’s coming up.

Buckley: That is awesome. Loving it, loving this course. Thank you.

Marie: [01:19:28] Awesome, thanks, Buckley. All right, moving on now to India. Let me unmute you in Albany.

India: Hi, can you hear me?

Marie: Hello, yes.

India: So I’m really in Jamaica Plain, but that’s an old number. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I’m so excited to talk with you.

Marie: Yay!

India: So my question is about choosing the right profit muscle for me. And it’s kind of about profit potential versus marketing work. So I have three different options for how to focus on monetizing my work. And my business … it’s a new business, but it’s work that I’ve been doing. I’m a museum educator and a yoga teacher.

And I think my business is going to be called Wayfinder Institute, and it’s basically about helping people make big decisions, get through stressful times, deal with depression, relationships, hard things like that. And it all takes place in art museums. So using visual art as a jumping off point for exploring ourselves and finding our way.



And so basically, I have three different ways that I can do this. I can market direct to consumer and kind of use the museum space, possibly renting it, or just working with relationships that I have and partnering with museums, which I think would be the most profitable model. But I think that it would probably be the most work in terms of marketing.

Or I can try to get museums to hire me directly, in which case we’d sort of co-market, but it probably wouldn’t be quite as profitable.

Then the third is really focusing on college and university art museums and working within colleges. So getting hired by colleges to create workshops for students around choosing majors and figuring out how to find their way after college – all of this using visual observation, meditation and yoga to help people really see themselves clearly through projection.

Marie: Cool, I have your answer.

India: Great.

Marie: We’re getting rid of number two. Number two is out the door. The reason why is it’s the one you have the least control over. And when you’re running a business, part of the reason you want to run a business is so that you can be in control of your destiny. And when your destiny is at the whim of museum directors possibly hiring you, not getting what you’re doing, yes or no. Their priorities change. Not for me. Not at all.

I like a little blend of number one and three, to be honest with you. I think direct to consumer, plus marketing workshops to colleges, I think it’s so smart because in terms of depression and decision making, my goodness. That’s when all of us humans … we’re struggling. We’re struggling right there, and we need some help. And I would imagine there are probably a number of parents who would love to support their support their children of that age in having a unique experience like this that could teach them some very solid life skills of how to make powerful, wisdom-based decisions in this way.

So I am going to vote for one and three, a blending of that. And yes, I do want to acknowledge, it’s going to be hard as hell in terms of figuring out how to market it. But that’s true with all of our businesses. I mean that’s true for nearly everybody right? We all start from zero. But the biggest rewards come when you’re willing to put in that hard work over time. So I’m giving you my point of view, which is obviously colored by my values and my lens in the world, and I operate like this.



I am always willing to put in all the hard work to reap the biggest rewards on the back end. I am patient as all hell. I will outwork anybody. I’ll be the one, the last standing. So again, I’m saying that through my lens to you because obviously you and I have different value systems. We’re different human beings. But that’s my perspective on it. And I think one and three are winners.

India: Great, thank you.

Marie: Love it. Really cool idea, super cool idea.

India: Thank you so much.

Marie: I think it’s so innovative.

India: Oh thank you. The trick with one and three – and I’m so glad you said it because that’s really what I want. But there’s some ballsy-ness involved with asking museums to house these workshops that are really sort of retreats or wellness programs. And so there is a partnering aspect in that, and that’s the part that I sort of … I have to have them really on board, and I come from the museum background. So that’s the piece I’m going to have to figure out is … I mean if I’m working with college museums then, that will happen automatically.

Marie: Yeah, but here’s the other thing I want you to consider. First of all, you have these relationships, and you have way more insight than I do. But consider, if you were doing a workshop, that maybe not all of it has to happen in the museum.

If you had a space that was nearby a museum, and y’all just did a little walk or an hour in a museum and you did your own little group tour, just consider that as another opportunity because I got nervous when I was thinking about you having to get “approval” for doing a workshop in a museum. Again, you know more about this than I do.

But my mind instantly went to, “Well, what if you had rented a yoga studio or a dance space nearby.” You’re like, “Okay, everyone.” You do a portion of the work in the yoga studio, you get people grounded. You give them some exercises. You set the frame, context, and then you go on your little field trip to the museum, and you do some observation, whatever your techniques are, and then you maybe take them back out, and you get them back in the studio.

Also, the other thing I wanted to highlight, just because I’ve worked with people in groups, is



when you’re making big decisions and you’re depressed, you might not want to … and plus museums are very quiet places. So if there’s some dialog that needs to happen, it may be a much better customer experience if some of that stuff happens in a private space – safer space, outside of the museum environment.

India: Right, great. Thank you.

Marie: Awesome.

India: Thank you so much.

Marie: You’re so welcome. All right, let’s see here. We are going over to Orlando, 321-438.

Honey: Hello, can you hear me?

Marie: Yes, now I can hear you perfectly. What’s your name?

Honey: Hi, I’m Honey.

Marie: [01:26:59] Hi, Honey.

Honey: How are you?

Marie: Great.

Honey: Well, my question is hopefully for everybody. I’m an artist. I’m a recording artist. And I joined B-School originally thinking … I’ve been touring for 10 years. I’ve been all over the world. I really love waking up at home and I was just sort of trying to find the next thing for me, and B-School was really appealing.

I’m really good at vocal arranging, vocal production, and I’m doing all this research. And I’m not



seeing it being promoted. And the people that I’m seeing having success at that are mostly having success based on their own personal relationships.

So I’m looking for this gray area in the middle where I can create a business that I think it virtually doesn’t exist as somebody who’s just promoting as a vocal arranger and a vocal producer. And the only other people who are doing that online are also promoting workshops for being a recording artist. It’s just very vague.

So part of me, in doing these interviews was feeling like maybe this is actually a terrible idea. Maybe I’ll build this business and nobody will actually want to pay for something like this because they don’t really know what it is, and they may not know why it’s important.

And usually they get it from their background singers, or they get it from a regular producer who’s also good at vocal production.

So my questions are, is it possible to sort of create a brand new thing that’s not really … I’m just not really seeing how to create it or where to put it or what to call it. And therefore, everything else in B-School has been struggling. Should my opt-in be free music? Or should I create a blog …

Marie: I totally get you, Honey. By the way, I’m having so much fun, because I feel like, “I totally get you, Honey.” I’m calling you this sweet name, but it’s actually your name.

So here’s the thing. You are absolutely right in pressing a little bit of the pause button. And when I say that, I mean absolutely continue to watch the Modules in B-School because those may spark ideas. But you’re not at the level you can execute yet, so don’t feel bad at all about that. Do you know what I mean? Do not have any guilt whatsoever about not taking action on the Fun Sheets because your business concept isn’t solidified. That’s exactly where you need to be.

An I idea have for you, and I don’t know if this will produce clarity but it may. I’m wondering if you can talk with some vocal producers. Because I heard you say most artists either get that from their backup singers, who have a little bit of experience with that, or a vocal producer who knows what they’re doing, which tells me that a lot of vocal producers maybe don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to arranging.

Honey: Yeah, totally.



Marie: I’m wondering if perhaps having conversations or calling some of your connections with producers and going, “Hey, I’m thinking about this,” and seeing if you can get enough of a broad base of people where you’re not basing it on one conversation or two conversations. You know what I mean – people who may be curmudgeon or grumpy or not open-minded?

But I’m just wondering if that can get you a little bit further down the path of, “is this a viable idea or not?”

To answer your question, you said, “Is it possible to create a business where you don’t see any business right now?” A hundred percent. That is a more risky uphill battle. It’s completely possible.

I mean think about … I was just talking about Walt Disney. Obviously I have Disney on my mind. Disney created this entire huge thing out of something that didn’t really exist that much before. I mean there were circuses, but there wasn’t really amusement parks at his level before he created this whole thing.

There are so many businesses when you think about personal computers and so many things that at one point never existed before. And then someone had to be bold and break in and create a whole new business model.

So yes, that is possible, but then it comes back to you, Honey, and say do you want to be that pioneer? You could risk a lot, and it may not turn out. Or you could be like, “Holy cow, I’ve just forged a whole new path,” which – that could happen as well. So I’m sorry that I’m not able to give you more clarity on that, but I think you’re very smart and asking the right questions.

And I think there’s something … I’m not closing the door on it quite yet. I feel like it still needs a little bit more poking around.

Honey: All right, so just call a bunch of producers.

Marie: Call a bunch of producers.

Honey: Yeah. I’ve been interviewing artists as my ICA, but I agree that maybe producers would be able to … I’m just trying to find out who would actually hire me. I’ve been finding when I speak to artists, when I ask, “Well, what’s not working for you?” Everybody’s like, “But I need



management,” and they’ll tell me three different things that are not working for them that are all management.

So then I came up with a completely different idea, and I was like “oh wow, that’s not really what I signed up for. It’s not where I’m excited –”

Marie: Passionate?

Honey: Well, because I’ve been an artist, and I’ve struggled, and I understand what an artist needs. When you’re doing a show you need somebody working the room. You need somebody passing out your flyers, collecting your email addresses. You need somebody selling your merch. And you need somebody to follow up with those people. So I was like maybe we could create these email funnels for artists and make it like management on demand.

And you could hire me to just manage you for that show. Or maybe I could create a team around you. I don’t know. Then a whole idea got sparked from that. But I was like, “Wait, I just want to produce music and make awesome art.” So I don’t know. I thought it was a good idea.

Marie: It is, actually. When I was listening to you talk, it sounds like a brilliant idea. But it might not be an idea you want to execute. And that’s okay.

So Honey, I also want to emphasize for you and for anyone else listening that may be in that same position. You’re in the ideation stage right now, and that’s an important stage. You’re looking at different opportunities. You’re asking smart questions. You’re contemplating what you might possibly want to do. And again, you can’t expect a brilliant new business idea to just happen instantly. And I know it’s been a few weeks, but I feel like, again, don’t press yourself. Keep moving forward. Keep asking these questions, but you do need to land on something that you’re both excited about executing on and that does make good financial sense.

But don’t give up quite yet. It’s like you’re digging. Don’t stop digging before you hit the gold.

Honey: Right, okay. Thank you so much.

Marie: Awesome, Honey. And again, there are other artists in B-School. There are other, specifically, musicians in B-School. So if you find out some things, and you want to just noodle around with it, make sure you post to the Facebook group and we’ll see if we can get you some more brains on it with you.



Honey: Awesome. I’m going to post in there right now, so if any artists are listening let’s start a chat. I’m in L.A.

Marie: Yeah, awesome, Honey. Thank you so much. All right, moving on. By the way, I do know we’re a little over time, but again, I’m having so much fun with y’all that I’m just going to keep going. Next we are going over to Sara Hall. Sara, you’re unmuted.

Sara: Hi, Marie. Can you hear me?

Marie: I can hear you great.

Sara: [01:34:59] Thank you. And can I just say a really quick thank you to Mandy who helped me work out how to put my hand up? I didn’t know how to do that.

Marie: Yay, Mandy.

Sara: Thank you. So my question, I started a second business about 18 months ago, and I’ve really been struggling to get it off the ground. That’s why I joined B-School in the first place, so I know you’re going to help me with that. And I’m going through all the Modules.

But I’m dreaming really big for this business, and I want a lot more people involved. So I thought, well, you’ve got a massive business, and I wondered if you could give me any tips for that.

Marie: Yeah. Well can you tell me any more about this second business idea and specifically what piece of it I may be able to provide some insight on?

Sara: Sure. So the business is called The Organizing School, and I offer online programs for people to help them get decluttered and organized in their home and do workshops.

And the bigger picture is I want more teachers. It’s called a school because I wanted to have more professional organizers offering their courses through the school and to be a go-to place where people can find other live workshops to go to as well.



Marie: Awesome. So is your question specifically about curriculum or getting it started? Tell me what your specific question is so I can give you some insight there.

Sara: To get other people to want to sell their courses through my school really, to get other people involved.

Marie: Yes, okay. Well, one of the best ways to get other people excited about wanting to sell their courses through your school is that you’ve got to provide some reason for them to do so – so whether that’s your marketing power, whether that’s your own list the fact that you will be essentially selling their courses for them.

Also, in terms of a level of support … so you’re going to want to think through if they’re uploading their course in your portal, are they going to have to go check comments? Thinking through how do you make it as attractive as possible for some of the top organizing professionals that you’d want to attract? How can you sweeten the deal?

So you may need to go and interview some of them and talk with them and say, “Hey, what would make it irresistible for you if I wanted to market and sell your course,” and probably have an affiliate relationship with them. “What are some of the things that would stop you from saying yes? What are you nervous about?” So they might be nervous about how you’re going to market their course. They might be nervous about customer service. They might not understand refunds. There’s probably a whole laundry list of issues for anyone who’s experienced in course creation and delivering them.

But if I were you, Sara, I would definitely go and interview them and just start talking and start developing those relationships. And that will give you the laundry list of things you need to tick off in order to make it just a no-brainer for people to come and say yes.

But as a course creator myself, I’m always concerned about, “Well, who is this person? Do they have total integrity online? What’s their reputation? Why is it going to be advantageous for me to upload my course or to do any kind of business with this person? Could it potentially damage my brand? What about the customer experience?”

You’ll have to think through the emails. Do they get access to their students or not? There’s a lot that will go into thinking this through. It’s all figureoutable, of course. But those are the kind of things that the higher you get up on the food chain, meaning the bigger the names are and the more business savvy they are, those are the kind of questions they’re going to ask.



Sara: Brilliant. Thank you so much.

Marie: You’re welcome. But I think your best bet is definitely going to establish those relationships, have those calls, whether it’s over Skype or email or taking them out to dinner or to coffee and really letting them know that you have their best interest at heart and explaining the vision and the mission and just seeing if they can tell you about some of their fears and their concerns. So then you can go back and totally handle them.

Sara: Thank you. That really helped.

Marie: You’re so welcome, Sara. Congratulations, and I’m excited for your new idea. It sounds fabulous.

Sara: Thank you.

Marie: [01:39:29] All right, our next caller, we are going to just a phone number. I don’t have a name or city or state. It is 348-811. Go ahead with your question.

Redina: Hello.

Marie: Hi.

Redina: Hi, Marie. Hi, my name is Redina. I’m calling from Spain. Thank you.

Marie: Beautiful. How can I help you, Redina?

Redina: [01:39:56] Well, I’m at let’s say very early stages currently for forming a business and putting all different skills and studies together. So basically I love to travel, and I’ve lived across three different countries while I’m following your videos initially. And then I started this program recently, so thank you for providing it. So it’s great so far.

Essentially, what I wanted to ask is I’ve come across some opportunities in potentially growing


© M arie Forleo Intern ation al Pg. 44 O ffice Hour s m arieforleobscho o l .com

in very new markets across borders, something in places where totally different cultures that potentially for women, especially, it’s quite different and particularly when they have very different culture, law etc.

And it can be potentially a very good proposition, but I have to think very clearly. Could this potentially be good as well as a business opportunity and how to approach it, especially as a woman? Because we take a lot for granted every day in whatever country – in the U.S. or Europe and especially in the current climate and taking a positive step forward.

Marie: Yeah. So what’s the core of your question? I definitely got that you’re in the early stages. I got that you love travel. Tell me more about the succinct question.

Redina: So the core question is there’s potentially some very good opportunities but in very … in a place I’ve never been before, something totally new.

Marie: Yeah.

Redina: New countries yet to discover. But then also taking into account for women this is a little bit more different, so there’s a lot of cultural sensitivity as well and whether this is good for a very, very new business or whether to pace myself.

Marie: Got it. Great question. So here’s what you’ve got to do. You’ve got to look within and say, “Where do I really want to focus my time and my life energy right now?” So for some of us humans the idea of starting a new business in a place where there may be some cultural sensitivities or even some resistance to a woman doing this or a woman trying to do this, would be exactly the kind of battle that some women would be like, “I’m so ready to fight that fight. Get me in there.” They’re putting on their gloves, and that kind of thing excites them.

And there’s other of us who are like, “Goodness gracious, that may not be the best use of my time and my talent.” Not that either one is better or worse, not that a person who chooses not to fight those battles is weak or anything.

But I think for you, Redina, if part of you is like, “For my first business I’m not really sure if want to try and start a brand new business and overcome all of these cultural hurdles and sensitivities.”

If that’s what your intuition is saying, “it doesn’t sound like a party to me.” That may be the



choice to go, “Let me go someplace where I can devote all my time and energy to developing a great product or service, working my buns off to get a business off the ground,” which we all know is very difficult, no matter which culture you’re in.

Redina: Yeah, already.

Marie: Yes, it’s a battle for everyone. It feels like you’re having a little bit of a lack of recognition, which may mean, “even though there are some open opportunities in here, I don’t know if I’m down to really cross all of those hurdles at this particular moment.”

So I would encourage you to look within, look in your heart, and really get honest. Does it feel expansive when you think about starting a business in some of these climates? Or do you feel contracted? And if what you feel on a body level is contracted, let that be your answer because your body has so much more wisdom than your mind or your intellect can often access.

And again, it doesn’t make you weak. It doesn’t make you less, and it doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate those cultures or have friends or travel to them. But when it comes to planting your business roots, you may want to do it in a place where it all …

Redina: It feels a bit more like home, initially at least, so it’s a bit more to the core. I think that’s right. I think possibly it could be a smaller project or something to test out, but I think it’s still very unknown.

But you’re right, and I remember some of your other … even some of your videos before I joined the course about intuition and things. And I’ve done, always, a lot of things … I love a challenge, so that’s why at the moment this is tough. But yeah, that’s why I’ve traveled. I’m living in Spain now. I lived in Germany. I’ve been working in design across various things, so now is a good time, I felt, to start off.

Marie: Good. I love it, I love it. And I also love your idea too. When in doubt if you can do something as a test project, if you can find a way to experiment … again, clarity comes from engagement, not thought if there’s some small pilot way to dip your toe in the water, so to speak, I think that would be awesome – and using your intuition too. We’ll be cheering you on. Definitely keep us posted.

Redina: Thank you.



Marie: Let us know how it goes.

Redina: And just a tiny side on to it. If someone comes along and also offers a proposition as well, also as a question for everyone in B-School. For example, if you’re going along, but then someone may come across and have a proposal is that also … Would you say that’s quite similar to also testing out the waters?

Marie: Yeah, if it’s on a project basis, but I would say just always be cautious if anyone’s wanting to do any kind of partnerships. Unless you are someone who has a really solid long-term relationship with another human, business partnerships are a lot like marriage. You don’t want to jump into them very quickly.

Redina: Okay, so with time. Okay. Thanks very much.

Marie: Thank you so much. All right, let’s see here. We’re going now over to Janice on Facebook.

Janice: Wow, can you hear me?

Marie: Hi.

Janice: Oh my gosh.


Janice: [01:46:54] Hello, nice to meet you. I have to tell you, I have been a full force in your course and loving every bit of it and doing everything and listening to you. The only reason why I didn’t listen right now is because I was with one of my apprentices. So let me get to my question.

So I own Sullivan J Photography, and I work also with a company called The Arcanum. It’s like a master/mentor … so I’m a master photographer, and I mentor other photographers. Well, some of my apprentices had said that they really would love for me to go and do my own mentorship.



So that put a bug in my ear. But I have to say that I don’t … and I love them, and there’s a couple of them that would love for me to start my own mentorship. But my question is I’ve been going through the website and the communication, and all that’s given me a lot of information. My website was totally screwed up and was really trying to sell, as I found out, more about photographs instead of mentorship.

Because I don’t have a huge following – and I’m sure you get this all the time, and I apologize if you’ve already answered this question – but I wanted to know do you think I just offer top notch offerings that’s going to be coming up before I actually even dive into this mentorship because of my following?

Marie: So is your question, should you just throw up a mentorship offer and have one up there?

Janice: Yeah.

Marie: Is there any conflict of interest with the company that you work with? Are they going to give you the side eye, give you some shade and be like, “What the hell is Janice doing?”

Janice: No, actually, they won’t because what it is is a program that students, photographers, will stay with me for about 20 challenges, and then they move on. And then I had asked them if I could start my own … like it’s a sphere two, and it’s for macro and landscape photography. And then they have these guidelines where you have to have so many people that have graduated through you.

So anyway, basically, I can’t go farther if I wanted to go farther with them, and that’s why my other apprentices are like, “You know, Janice, why don’t you just go on your own?” And I felt bad. I like The Arcanum. I like the people there, but you’re right.

Marie: So it’s not going to be a problem, in other words. You’ve already asked them, and you understand the way that it won’t be an issue.

Janice: Yes.

Marie: Great. Then absolutely, put up an offer. We’ll be talking more about offers in … I mean if you know everything that you want to say, and you can make those … this is why I always say a website … I good website that you can control or that you work with people, that it’s quick to update, is like a Swiss Army Knife because it’s marketing materials on demand.



Put up an offer, 100 percent. Absolutely, go for it. We’ll talk more about offers in Module Five and the marketing of those offers in Module Six. But for sure, woman, do it.

Janice: Really? Even if I have a small amount of people?

Marie: Yeah, why not?

Janice: Okay.

Marie: I talked about this on an earlier call today. It’s like why not just put up the offer, and if someone bites, hell, you got yourself a sale. And the rest of B-School will teach you how to continue to build your following and build your audience. But if people are already asking you for it, you just probably need to put up a “Buy” button and people will start signing up.

Janice: All right, yeah. I apologize I didn’t get the first half of this. I was with one of my apprentices. But I’m still, like many, like, “Should I even go for it because it’s so small?”

Marie: No, it’s good. It’s all good. No apologies necessary. But yes, I do believe if you know what you want to offer, people are already asking you for it, put it up on your website, and you’ll continue to refine that offer, to describe it more enticingly and the rest of B-School will continue to show you how to build it out.

Janice: Wonderful. All right, well, thank you so much, and thanks for everything.

Marie: You’re so welcome. You’ve got it. All right, let’s see here. We are going over to Erin in Grass Valley.

Erin: [01:51:01] Hello.

Marie: Hi.

Erin: Hi, can you hear me?




Erin: Okay, sorry I’m actually driving, but I think I can do this. I actually don’t know a person who’s my ICA, so I feel like I’m inventing them, which means I’m not properly interviewing them. And on some of your past questions, you wanted to know what the psychology of why a person might be buying my product, or what their pain is. And I’m having a really hard time figuring out the pain of why women buy clothing. My niche is really small. It’s almost … I don’t know how to figure out that answer.

Marie: Cool, love this. So Erin, since you’re driving, I’m going to keep it relatively short because I want you to stay focused on driving and stay really safe. So what I’m going to ask you to do is when you get back to a computer I want you to post in the Facebook group. And the reason why is I’m going to hook you up with Kristi, our B-School Mentor Coach who also runs a product-based business. She also sells clothing. And I feel like we can so help you unpack this. And it doesn’t have to be hard. We can get you completely unstuck. But I don’t want to do it while you’re driving because I have your safety in mind, if that’s cool with you.

Erin: Awesome.

Marie: Yeah, so you drive, keep your focus on the road, woman. When you come back make sure you say, “Hey, it’s me. It’s Erin,” and tell us a little bit about your business. Tell us about what you’re selling. And then we’ll be able to find you, and we’ll make all the magic happen.

Erin: Okay, thank you so much.

Marie: You’re welcome. All right, bye, drive safe. All right, our next caller. Let’s see here. We are going over to California, Leslie.

Leslie: [01:53:02] Hey, Marie. How are you?

Marie: I’m fantastic. How are you?

Leslie: I am doing great, and I’m going to jump onto the bandwagon of fans of B-School. This has been so incredible.



Marie: Yay, thank you for that.

Leslie: You’re welcome. These Office Hour calls are part of the incredibleness, so thank you for the time you’re spending on them.

Marie: My pleasure.

Leslie: Super. Okay. Here’s where I’m stuck. I’m going to just admit that I feel really silly for being stuck here. That being said, I am stuck on my story – not because I have amnesia and don’t realize what I’ve done in my life – but because I have trouble coming …

Like all of us, I’ve had such a rich and full life I have trouble sorting out what part of it is relevant. And then I find myself rambling as a result. Make sense?

Marie: Yeah, totally makes sense.

Leslie: Help, please.

Marie: Yeah, so this is another one where the relevance factor is actually really big. I would say, for most of us, it’s vital to have a few different versions of our story.

When you think about your business and what you’re selling, you want to be able to tell stories or have a little bit of a through line that can help people not only relate to you but that would be relevant for creating credibility or creating some kind of connection to your product or your offering.

So there could be some parts of your story that you just leave out because you’re like, “you know what, maybe it’s interesting,” but you just need to edit something. There’s that famous phrase when it comes to editing. You’ve got to kill your darlings. You can write this big long story, but you’re going to maybe edit our half of it and not worry about it no one’s going to miss it. They won’t even know it was there.

So I would look at your story through a lens of relevance. Is there any bits of your story that you’re like, “Yeah, this connects with wanting to establish credibility, establish authority or just



my humanity.” Maybe it’s a quirk about, “I love a certain kind of dogs.” Or for me Smurfs and zombies. I can say that in two words, literally, Smurfs and zombies. I don’t have to go on about how I used to collect Smurfs or I was member of the first Smurf fan club.

I can literally tell you lots of stories about Smurfs, but all I have to do if I want to create that little human connection is say, “Smurfs and zombies.” Does that make sense?

Leslie: Gotcha, totally does, right.

Marie: Challenge yourself.

Leslie: If I choose the focus.

Marie: Yeah, use the lens of focus of relevance. Relevance, relevance, relevance. Tighten up, and again you can put those stories – put it in Facebook if you want and we’ll all give you some loving but honest feedback.

If we’re like, “Girl this is way too long. You need to cut that sh*t down.” We will let you know. If there’s a part of your story that’s really interesting – again, based on understanding what you do and what you’re trying to achieve with telling a particular story.

And then the other thing is this. Just know that there may be parts of your “story” that you don’t put in your About Page, but maybe you save them. Maybe that’s a teaching moment somewhere. Maybe that’s a piece of content down the line. Maybe that’s ideal for a talk you’re going to give somewhere.

So just realize that you don’t have to share everything all the time. And just knowing that there are different pieces of your story – and we’re always looking through the lens of relevance – I think that will help you edit it down and not feel so stuck. And by the way, being silly is good. You can feel silly as much as you want, Leslie. Silly is a really good thing. It’s not silly for being stuck there. Cool?

Leslie: Awesome, yes. Thank you.



Marie: Thank you so much, darling.

Leslie: Thank you.

Marie: [01:56:57] You’ve got it. All right, let’s see here. We’re going to go. I’m going to try and find Hackensack, Vernon. Go, you’re live.

Laurie: I’m here.

Marie: Hi.

Laurie: Hi, Marie. How are you?

Marie: I’m fantastic. What’s your name?

Laurie: My name is Laurie Perrone. Vernon is my husband, and I’m actually a Jersey girl as well.

Marie: Jersey’s in the house!

Laurie: I’m in a situation that’s kind of unique. I’ve been in the fashion business for 25 years. And my job was eliminated four years ago, and I started my own business, which basically is a sustainable fashion company actually called Farm To Fashion, and I make all my products in the U.S. And I decided that I would really open up my business with the thoughts that possibly that I would be able to sell to retailers across the country.

And I did my first show and had some good success. I actually sold Thomasville stores, which was really exciting and some other retailers. And I have been doing so in the past couple of years.

My biggest challenge is that retail, selling direct to retailers, literally changes from season to season. And I feel like there’s no consistency.



And it’s quite a challenge for me because, as I’ve been creating this brand and getting a lot of good feedback, I also started building my own business with other direct to customers through my Facebook group page and through my local community. I’ve secured probably three or four hundred people that have purchased from me and continue to purchase from me.

And I’m at that dilemma of what do I do? Do I stop going direct to … Do I do direct to customer, or do I actually stop selling to retailers? And this last season, this last spring season has been difficult because it seemed like fourth quarter – I have a net worth company – fourth quarter their fourth quarter is a great time for selling sweaters and like items.

But now all of a sudden here I am at that crossroads where they didn’t come back for first or second quarter, and I just don’t feel that there’s the same loyalty as I have telling my story to my direct customers and having them support me in my products.

Marie: Yeah, I hear you. This is definitely one where I would love Kristi, our product-based business Mentor Coach, who also sells sustainable clothing. I feel like y’all need to chat.

Laurie: Okay.

Marie: So I’m going to ask you to post in the Facebook group too. I’m going to give you my perspective, but I just wanted to plant that seed because I can almost hear Kristi in my mind. She’s like revving to go, wanting to get her hands on you because this is where I think a lot of individual and high-quality producers it’s a way that many of them are going. And as you’re discovering, when you’re direct relationship with your buyers and your fans is there, and they love you, and they love your stuff, it may not be the same model of the old time, but those folks – they want to support you, and they want to keep it going.

Again, if you think about Etsy, which I know is not your thing, but a lot of people really like these days being able to buy thing – clothing, home goods – directly from the artisans that make them, directly from the people who are designing and manufacturing.

Laurie: And I can offer them amazing prices. I can give them great value.

Marie: Yes. And again, with social … and what a great name that you have, Farm To Fashion.

Laurie: Thank you.



Marie: What a huge, huge market of eco-conscious, sustainable humans who care deeply about where their clothing is made and how it’s made and the impact that it has. I just think you have such a huge opportunity online that that would be my vote. Again, I want you to talk with Kristi because she’ll be able to geek out on the numbers and the kind of ins and outs of all that with you. But from an intuitive and futuristic sense it feels like it’s so the way to go, really.

Laurie: Thank you, Marie. I can’t tell you. It just brings tears to my eyes. I’ve been waiting to hear that for so long. Going into my fourth year I really want to put my effort where it really makes the most sense.

Marie: Yeah, and it feels like, to you, if I’m gauging you right – please correct me if I’m wrong – loyalty’s really important to you as a human.

Laurie: Super, absolutely.

Marie: Yeah, and it’s like wanting to take care of people and people that keep their word and having those relationships feels like paramount to your values. And that’s one of the things that I particularly love about the world that we’re in right now, because if you take care of your readers, your customers, your consumers – whatever you call them – and you treat them well, which is the whole basis of what we talk about in B-School.

And you’re striving to do the right thing – it’s like people want to support people who are doing the right thing, and I think it’s very exciting because, in many cases, we can somewhat cut out the middleman and a lot of the bullsh*t that happens in business that doesn’t need to happen any longer.

Laurie: Thank you so much. It really is exciting to think that that could be an opportunity. I don’t have to be waiting along the wayside for a retailer to reorder or call me back. My customers continuously communicate with me, and there are multiple sales. It’s an incredible journey that I’ve been through with them. And I’d love to take that beyond just my local area.

Thank you so much, Marie, it’s been amazing. And I’m loving B-School, even though I’ve been in the business field for 25 years, there’s so many things that I know that I can apply from the B-School Modules. So again, thanks again.

Marie: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. We’ll be cheering you on. Again, post in the Facebook group. I can almost guarantee you’re probably going to have a few customers in



B-School as well. People are like, “What’s this? Show me more. Show me your stuff.” Awesome, thank you.

Laurie: Thanks, Marie. Take care.

Marie: All right, you guys. I am going to go over … Portland, Oregon. has been on the phone for a long time, cell phone 503-368, go for it.

Giselle: [02:03:45] Is that me?

Marie: It is you. I heard you.

Giselle: Good, that is a different number, but I’m so glad it’s me. Hi, Marie. My name is Giselle.

Marie: Hi, Giselle.

Giselle: You had somebody – I think her name was Jackie – that asked a question earlier about phases and having a sort of business idea that she envisioned in phases. And you mentioned something called collapsing, which I immediately got an idea, and I love what I think that idea is.

And I want to try to ask a question that’s different than hers, which is the different phases that I have in mind, which I fully plan to start to imagine how to collapse some of them, how to start incorporating ideas from phase two and phase three into what I’m doing now. But what I’m doing now is primarily I do these culinary immersion events. And I live in a small down.

My business is called Quincho, and the local community is pretty stoked on it. I’ve gotten a lot of great feedback. And I feel sort of this hyper local business. In order to go where I want to go, I need to have more exposure to a wider community, particularly an online community. So I’m trying to figure out how to keep chugging with what I’m doing in my own community with these dinners and weekend retreats and stuff like that.

And the idea behind that was to build this community of evangelists, of champions and people who are excited about the business and sort of excited to come along with me for where I’ll take it. But how do I simultaneously build a larger community, get in touch with people outside of my own community? I have a website. I have social media accounts.



But still I find that, no matter how much I Instagram or … I sort of hate Facebook, so I don’t use it a lot. But it’s still primarily the people in my own community who are engaging with my business.

Marie: What’s your website?

Giselle: It’s Quincho.co.

Marie: So Quinsho?

Giselle: C-H-O.

Marie: Crap, I’m a sh*tty speller. Spell it one more time for me.

Giselle: It’s like a Spanish word. It’s like the word quince, but instead of an E on the end it’s an H-O, Quincho. It’s tricky.

Marie: And then is it dot com?

Giselle: It’s dot co.

Marie: Oh, that’s why. There we go. So I did spell it right, but I put a little M on the end.

Giselle: Yeah.

Marie: So a couple of things, have you done pop-ups in other cities?

Giselle: No, I’ve explored doing that, and I would like to. I have not. Actually, the truth is I did something in Beirut, which is a long way away from where I live, in Lebanon. But that’s the only one that’s been not in my town or in my community.



Marie: Okay. So it may be that you want to … so there’s a couple different ways that you could approach this. Oh my goodness. Is that you on your About Page with that skirt and the white top?

Giselle: It is.

Marie: Such a cute skirt. Okay, I just had my moment – really adorable. Amazing stuff.

Giselle: Thanks.

Marie: So there’s a couple different ways you could do this. One strategy would be … are you in Portland?

Giselle: I’m actually in a town called Hood River, which is about an hour east of Portland.

Marie: Okay, great. So you could either go Oregon central. Going, okay, “what are all the places in my state?” If you want to start doing pop-ups that are “local” but starting to dominate your state to get more people involved in it.

Or thinking about coming to a place like L.A. or Seattle – do you know what I mean? Finding places that are still West Coast, but that you almost start branching out in a thoughtful way.

People from Portland or around where you live inevitably know folks in L.A. or Seattle, right? So it’s still friends of friends. And I feel like if you want to start building out the community, that would be the approach I would take.

Obviously Lebanon is far away, and it’s amazing, and it’s awesome. But if you want to start dominating the U.S., why not start dominating the West Coast?

Giselle: Okay, great. And I have people in pretty much every city on the West Coast. So that’s awesome. Is that a great way to build … so one of the things I’d like to do, to be fairly specific – I’m hoping this applies to a lot of people on this call – is to start marketing cookware and kitchenware that is specific to cultural cookery.



Marie: Cool, that sounds amazing.

Giselle: Thanks. That’s something that I imagine happening online, like an online shop. I would love to have a brick and mortar, but I would imagine most of those sales coming from online.

Is doing these pop-up events sort of a good way to start to build a community that might engage with that online?

Marie: I think so.

Giselle: Okay.

Marie: Yeah, well, here’s the thing – think about this. I know for me, and anyone that’s a foodie who’s listening to this right now would probably agree. Let’s say you do a pop-up event. And let’s say you have some of your culinary line there, or you have some of the offerings.

Whenever I’m out somewhere using really good cutlery … I did this the other day at a place here in L.A. Not the other day, it was actually last year. I loved their knives so much I literally went home and ordered them because I loved them so much.

Now if I was at a pop-up event, and you were like, “Hey, and I also want to introduce you to this,” then people would probably want to order them on the spot. But they could order them from your website. Like if you bring your iPad to the event, or if you have them for people to take, it’s so easy.

So yeah, I do think. And then I think once you have your line, then it becomes really fun, because you might want to think about doing some partnering events with other influencers, lifestyle influencers, which there are a lot of them apparently in B-School now, which I had no idea, which is great.

But there are so many folks that have powerful Instagram followings that would love to partner with someone like you to do an event and then the cutlery and la la la la la. This is a shoe-in. This is good stuff.

Giselle: Okay, excellent. Thank you very much.



Marie: I love what you’re doing. You’re so welcome. And make sure … I know you’re not super big on Facebook, but for the purposes of B-School and connecting with others and brainstorming about ideas, you should definitely post, cause I have a feeling a lot of our B-Schoolers will take a look at your stuff and be like, “Let’s do a pop-up event in my city. Let’s do this over here.” So you’ve also got a way to build community within the community.

Giselle: I just joined the group, and I’m excited to engage with everybody in there. And B-School’s been a hustle, but I think it’s exactly what I needed to gain some clarity and sort of formulate a plan. So thanks.

Marie: Thank you so much, and congratulations.

Giselle: Thanks.

Marie: All right, let’s see here. I am going over to another unknown caller who’s been on for over a hundred minutes. If you think it might be you, you’re probably calling in from Skype. Say what’s up.

Sarah: Hello.

Marie: Yeah, I hear you. You sound like you are not from the U.S.

Sarah: No, I’m from Australia.

Marie: Hello, what’s your name?

Sarah: [02:11:57] Hi, I’m so excited. My name’s Sarah.

Marie: Hey, Sarah. What’s your question?

Sarah: So basically I’ve had my business for one year. It’s an eyebrow regrowth product for women that over-plucked in the ‘90s. It’s a plant-based product that isn’t tested on animals. Sorry I had to run up the stairs when you called out.



And my market is online consumer and then to wholesalers as well. And I feel like I keep trying marketing approaches, and I’ve tried Facebook and media and all different types of things, and my sales aren’t consistent. So the only real traction that I’m getting is when I do a media release and someone picks it up. And I get all these sales, and then it stops.

So I guess my question for you is I was thinking about hiring an actor and trying to put together a comedy style video to put onto Facebook to try and get more engagement that way. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Marie: Well, I think that is a great idea just because I’m someone who happens to love anything that is comedic. And I love fresh, interesting approaches when it comes to marketing. And if your eyebrow regrowth product – especially because it sounds like it’s … did you say it’s all natural?

Sarah: Yeah, it’s plant-based, and it’s not tested on animals, which I’m very big on.

Marie: Plant-based … I love that. Awesome. So I think it’s absolutely worth it. If you could lower the Skype volume that would be awesome. I’m getting a little feedback.

Sarah: Sorry.

Marie: No worries. So yes, I think that’s a smart idea. I think it could be really, really fun and funny and get a lot of traction. It might not go anywhere. It could bomb, and that’s okay. You have to be willing for that too. Things like that are either going to be amazing, or people will be like “meh, don’t care.”

The second though – if you find that you get a big bump in sales every time there’s a press hit or press release, there’s something to pay attention to there. It’s like maybe thinking about what are some different angles that you could write so you could release a press release a month and find all of the different areas that you can hit up that someone could write about you.

Sarah: Yeah, so you’re saying … press releases. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

Marie: No, it’s okay. It’s totally okay. We’re spitballing. My thought, just the general principle behind that – for you and for everyone – if something works, how can you do more of it? If something is working, how can you put your creative brain on it? Like, “oh if I get a spike in sales, and I get this media hit, how can I start to engineer my processes so maybe I can put out a press



release … whether it’s once a week, once every two weeks, once a month – who knows. And find all of the different places that I can kind of disseminate and distribute these press releases and have that be a regular part of my marketing activities?”

Do you know what I mean? So you’re not kind of holding back, waiting, like “when do I get a press hit?” You’re like, “How can I engineer this to happen more often?”

Sarah: Yeah, okay.

Marie: And then the other thing I think is important for you is – this might be an area where doing some SEO work could be awesome. I don’t know the specifics around this, but I know anything related to beauty, to skin care …

When any of us have a problem, and I would imagine that if your eyebrows … if you’re having challenges with your eyebrows, and you would like them to grow back, I would imagine that is the kind of thing that people are online googling about. Like “oh my goodness, what’s happening?” You know what I mean? That’s a real pain point.

Sarah: I’ve gotten to page three of Google, which is really exciting for one of my blog posts. So I’m trying to focus on that as well. Who gets to page three, but I’m trying to get to page one.

Marie: Yeah, we need to get you to page one, woman. That’s what we need you to do. There could be opportunities to play with some of that SEO work that we have there and keep pushing you because I feel like you have such a product that as long as we got the visibility right, you’ll be able to sell a lot because it’s such a clear, urgent pain point. It sounds like you have a really beautiful solution that’s plant-based.

Sarah: Yeah, it is. Thank you.

Marie: You know what else you should consider? This is just something a little off to left field. You should do some research. Have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee or glass of wine – whatever floats your boat – and see if there are any well-known people or online influencers who’ve ever struggled with the kind of thing that your product would help solve. I know it’s a little out there in left field, but you just never know.

Sarah: Yeah. No, it’s not left field at all because it was such a fashionable thing in the ‘90s, and there are so many people that are left with thin eyebrows.



Marie: Yes, very cool. I can’t even believe it. So a lot of this is actually from the ‘90s. Like this is a hangover from the ‘90s.

Sarah: Yeah, it is. I personally waxed my eyebrows off in the ‘90s. And I created it for myself, and my eyebrows are really thick now. So that’s how it came about. I was able to do it for myself, and I wanted to start helping other women.

Marie: That’s really cool. Do you have some before and afters?

Sarah: I have my own up, but I don’t have any customers’ up yet.

Marie: That’s another place that you’ve got to put on your list of sh*t to get done is seeing if you can get some before and afters. When it comes to beauty products, that is one of the most compelling things that makes me hit the “buy now” button. And I would assume for most of us it’s the same. Again, since big bushy brows are so in fashion right now, I think that would be awesome for you to show some before and afters. It’d be really important.

Sarah: Okay. That would probably help my conversion rate because I find my conversion rate’s really inconsistent because the media makes it bump up, and then every other day it’s really low.

Marie: Yeah, get some before and afters – like as many as you can muster. Get them, get them, get them. Even if you have to give some product away to people and say, “Hey, I want to get your before and afters. Will you agree with this? This will help you. It’s totally plant based.” Get those before and afters.

Sarah: Okay, great.

Marie: Awesome. Thanks, darling.

Sarah: Thank you.

Marie: You’re welcome, Sarah. Bye. What a cool product. All right, so we’re going to go to our last caller who’s been on for a long time – Nadine.



Nadine: Yay, hi, Marie.

Marie: Hi.

Nadine: Can you hear me okay?

Marie: Can hear you beautiful.

Nadine: [02:18:58] Great. So I’ll keep it quick. I am a mom of four girls, and I have two businesses. I used to do accounting back in the day when I had a normal 9-to-5. And I happily quit my accounting job and pursued photography. And now I have a very successful photography business. But on the side, I kept some accounting clients. And I feel like I’m cheating on my photography business when I’m trying to please my accounting clients.

And I feel like accounting is this monkey on my back that I have, and I don’t have enough guts to say goodbye, and it offers me a nice supplemental income. And I have somebody working for me that helps me now with the accounting side. But I still have to be involved. It’s just one of those things where I feel like it takes me away and doesn’t allow me to give my 100 percent to my passion and love, which is my family and my photography.

Marie: Okay.

Nadine: I need to get your advice on that. I feel like it’s cheating, but is it cheating? Should I just embrace it?

Marie: Well, here’s the thing. That is completely up to you. I mean you’re a mom of four girls – God bless you. And if you want to keep the accounting I do not think it’s cheating at all. You can consider it just like another revenue stream.

Let’s say you had photography one-on-one clients. Then you did a photography workshop. Then you sold photography gear. I consider the accounting – even though I know it’s using a different part of your brain – but I do not consider it “cheating” on your business. But I’m curious. You described it as a “monkey on your back.” How would it feel if you just took that monkey off and tossed it to the side?



Nadine: I would feel guilty but happy. I would feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulder, but I also would have guilt because I’ve engaged with someone working for me that has taken some of the load off my back. And I’ve told her that I’m going to keep going. And I feel like I’m letting her down.

So I’ve kind of gotten a little tangled up – not legally. It’s just I’m a woman of my word, and I’d feel like I’d be going back on my word. But in the big picture of things, yeah, it would be a relief.

Marie: It’d be a really good thing. Okay. What about this? What about considering, just to think about, creating a transition plan so that you are being a good boss, and you’re honoring the person who’s working with you – meaning that you’re giving her enough time to make a transition. And you’re also giving your clients enough time to find someone else to handle their accounting. How would that feel?

Nadine: Feels better. So communicating – talking, preparing, planning.

Marie: Totally. It’s such a novel thing, I know.

Nadine: What a concept.

Marie: What a concept. I shock myself sometimes. I’m like, “You know, I should really just talk to that person about that. Wow, Marie, that’s really smart.”

But seriously, honestly, if you create a plan, if you’re clear in your heart and in your soul that having accounting no longer be a revenue stream for you, if that just feels like … if we could not hurt people and you don’t have to worry about taking away people’s livelihoods or disappointing others, which we women tend to really worry about that one a lot.

Nadine: We’re the pleasers.

Marie: We are the pleasers. We can be the pleasers. But if you create a good plan for yourself and you really take some time and meditate on it, journal about it, write about it and say “okay.” Whether it’s four months or three months or two months or six months, whatever really feels good in your bones.



And then you communicate. You let people know this is the plan. Perhaps you think about it in advance and say, “Is there anyone else I can refer them out to in terms of the woman that you’re employing.” You can let her know.

I don’t know if she’s so good at what she does that there’s anything that’s applicable in your photography business, but if not, she’s a woman. She’ll get it. She might be disappointed, but when people are treated with the dignity of respect and transparency and communication and you’re straight up with them about what’s happening, most people I find respect that. They appreciate that, and they understand. The one thing in life that is constant is change. Nothing’s going to stay the same forever, and that includes our work.

Nadine: Agreed, agreed. Wow, that’s so simple. You make it sound so easy, but it’s just you get in your own way. So thank you. I really appreciate that.

Marie: Oh no, of course. You’re so welcome. I think the hardest thing for most of us is thinking about those conversations. We make them so much larger in our mind than they actually are. And when you start talking about your truth, and you actually say it out loud, sometimes I script out things. I’ll give myself a few bullet points if it’s a really challenging kind of situation. If it’s really either emotionally charged or I just want to make sure that I get it right, I’ll write down in advance a few things that I want to make sure I say.

And then once you do it you’re like, “Wow, that wasn’t so hard after all. Oh my goodness, I feel like the weight of the world has just been lifted off my shoulders.” And for you, I feel like that little monkey is going to run away, and you’ll wave to it, and it’ll be eating a banana. And you’ll be like, “Bye, you were wonderful. Love you. See you later.”

Nadine: Love it. I love it. Okay. It’s clear. I have clarity. I just needed to hear that. Okay. Well thank you so much.

Marie: You’re welcome.

Nadine: I needed that. Okay. Thank you, Marie.

Marie: Perfect. You’re welcome. All right you guys. Well with that, we have taken all of the calls, the folks who have had their hands up for a really long time and who have been on since nearly the beginning of the call. So I will wrap up this one for today.



This was fantastic. I want to thank you guys for your attention, for your clarity, for your love, for all of the appreciation that you expressed – not only for me, for B-School – but for our team. That means the world to us. Thank you so much. As you know, we pour our heart and souls into this program because we are here to do a great job for you guys. And we’re here to really make sure that you’re taken care of and that you have all the tools and the insight and the clarity and the support that you need to bring your dreams to life.

So thank you again, from the bottom of my heart. We’re going to be back tomorrow with some more calls. I’ll be in the Facebook group. We’ll be in the B-School Member Area as well. So take good care of yourself. Drink lots of water. Have lots of fun. Make sure you have a dance party, and I’ll catch you guys soon. Thanks so much, everyone. Bye.


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