PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

BIPARTISAN MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE

ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

INTERVIEW WITH:

The Honorable William Adolph (R)

165th District

Delaware County

1989-2016

INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY: Heidi C. Mays, House Archivist

October 18, 2016

Transcribed by: Rachael Losiewicz

© Pennsylvania House of Representatives, Office of the Chief Clerk

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Heidi C. Mays (HM): I'm here today with Representative William F. Adolph who represented

the 165th legislative district and parts of Delaware County. Is that how you say it?

The Honorable William Adolph (WA): Yeah, Delaware County. It's all of Delaware County.

HM: But there is different parts of it?

WA: Yeah, I represent, currently, three municipalities: all of Springfield Township, all of

Morton Borough, just about all of Marple Township, and about 50 percent of Radnor Township.

HM: And that has changed through redistricting.

WA: Yes it has quite a bit, quite a bit. There was one redistricting that my district population

changed a little over 34 percent. I used to represent, when I was first elected, about 18 thousand

people in Upper Darby Township, a section called Drexel Hill in Drexelbrook. And that was, as

a result of redistricting, all the population was moving northwest and that's when I moved in to

Radnor Township.

HM: And you served from 1989 and this will be your last session here in 2016.

WA: Yes, 14 terms, a total of 28 years. Yes.

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HM: So, I would like to begin by asking you about your childhood and your family life and how

you feel that that prepared you for public service?

WA: Well, you know, my upbringing we were a very close knit family, okay? I was born and

raised in Southwest Philadelphia, went to a Catholic grade school in Southwest Philadelphia

which is no longer there. It was called Most Blessed Sacrament. And my dad did something that

no one else in our family ever did; Instead of moving to a different neighborhood in Southwest

Philadelphia when the family got bigger, my dad made a big jump all the way out, you know a

good five, six miles to Springfield Township in Delaware County, and that's where I've been the

rest of my life. I went to St. Keven's Catholic school in Springfield. I Went to Cardinal O'Hara

High School in Springfield, and I went to Christian Brothers University in Memphis, Tennessee.

And returned to Springfield and, you know, I had three sisters. I was the oldest boy and my

sister, Carol, who was about 15 months younger than me, she passed away and she was a great

person and she actually worked for me in my accounting practice, and my other sister Elaine is a

registered nurse and my youngest sister, Maria, is in business, I think in the IT (Information

Technology) world.

HM: Okay. You talked a little bit about your educational background and your career. You

were a CPA, or still are. I'm sorry.

WA: Yeah, I still have my license as a public accountant. I started, you know, just about right

after college. My dad had a small firm and actually at that time he was working out of his

kitchen, and he had a heart attack, unfortunately. He survived; he's 91 years old today and still

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doing great, but, that's how I started. I tried to help my dad out at that time and things, things

improved and you know, that was like in the early [19]70's, and we moved out of the kitchen and

went to Baltimore Pike in Springfield, and then probably half a dozen or so years later we bought

a two story property on business a little district in Springfield, Saxer Avenue, and we've been

there ever since. Even though I put in, you know, anywhere between 50 to 60 hours a week as a

legislator, during the tax season I always prepared individual tax returns. First of all I enjoy it,

you know, most of the time when I do the tax returns the people are sitting right in front of me

just like we're sitting here, Heidi, and it keeps you in touch with reality, both the struggles and

the successes that people can have, because you're seeing how much people are living on and

you're seeing all the expenses. And those expenses, a lot of times, are the issues that we deal

with up here, you know, and it really worked hand in hand. And knowing the tax structure, you

know how much people love to pay taxes, you know, so it was very helpful over the years.

HM: So how did you become interested in politics?

WA: Yeah, how did I become interested in politics? It's funny, Heidi, I really, you know, never

thought I would end up being a public official. Like I said, I was a small business man and I've

always been active in athletics. I started coaching football at an early age and I would go to

these Park and Rec[reation] meetings locally, make sure our football fields were limed and the

grass was cut and so forth and so on. And I was the treasurer at the time of the Springfield

Athletic Association and also the treasurer of the Saxer Avenue Merchants Association, so a

combination of local interest. You know, some of the party officials asked me if I would ever be

interested in running, and at the time there was an opening on the township board. Okay, this

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was after I has some interest in being a township auditor, but then I said to myself, I said, you

know, I'm adding up and subtracting and multiplying and dividing numbers all day, why do I

want to do this at night as well? So the township commissioner position sounded a lot more

interesting for me and it really was. I mean, local government, I got elected, I think it was in

1980, to serve the first Ward of Springfield Township, where I still live; I've only had one house

in my life that I own by myself. And that was really a great experience, you know, trying to

keep a place where you love and live thriving between the business community and making sure

that the public safety – we have a great police force and volunteer firefighters, and so forth – and

it's a great place to raise a family. And that's how I made most of my decisions, based upon what

the residents of the Springfield Township really want, so that helped a lot.

HM: So, you were elected?

WA: I was elected township commissioner. I served, I guess, between 1980 and until I got

elected into the State House, which was November of 1988, and I stepped down when I got

elected to the State legislature.

HM: So, was there any one issue that made you decide to run for the House or were you

approached?

WA: Yeah, I was approached by the same folks that thought I might be interested in being a

township commissioner. The same folks came and see if I would be interested in the State

House. I had never been to Harrisburg. Like I said, I moved all but five to seven miles, you

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know, from Southwest Philadelphia to Springfield, Delaware County. I really didn't do much

traveling through the Commonwealth, so I had never been to Harrisburg until the day I was

sworn in, but I sat down with the current legislator, who I knew most of my adult life. I

happened to have served with her on the township board and she was a registered nurse in

profession and she had a great love for human services, and so forth and so on, and she loved her

career in Harrisburg and she was going to move on with her life and stay home a little bit more

and she got involved in County government. And she kind of talked me into it. It sounded great.

You can make a difference and after talking to my wife and these people assuring me that this is

just a little part-time job, you know, you're going to be able to come home, you know, and

continue this and continue that. So after they told those couple fibs to me, you know, I bought

into it, but it was a great decision.

HM: So, how was your first campaign?

WA: How was my first campaign? Well, you know, I only had one other campaign and that was

when I was a township commissioner and that was a pretty easy campaign, just knock on your

neighbors doors and there is no expense involved whatsoever there. So, you know, they said

you're going to need some money, you're going to need some pamphlets some buttons and so

forth and some lawn signs and that, so me and my buddies, all the guys I coached football with

and guys I went to high school with, they were my campaign team and, you know, we had a

couple beef and beers on Monday night football and I think I had a golf outing as well, and

raised, I'm going to make up a number, maybe five thousand dollars. And we put up some lawn

signs and I knocked on doors and, you know, we had no social media; there was no cell phones

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back in those days. So, I got to know some of the political folks in these other municipalities,

you know, the township commissioners and the school board directors and so forth and the

mayor of Morton and their council members. It was a pretty neat experience. But the memory

about running for the legislative seat that I do remember, and I'll give you two examples – I still

have a picture of it – I had an opportunity to meet President Ronald Reagan on his 76th birthday.

Our local Congressman, Curt Weldon, set up a photo op[portunity] for me to meet the President,

which I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I'd never saw a president in person before and I

was invited into the oval office and I have that picture today hanging in my office, and it was

probably the highlight of my career, as far as meeting people. He was a perfect gentleman and

we presented him with a birthday card with, I'm going to say, 40 thousand signatures on there,

and a little lapel pin that played the Star Spangled Banner. So, it was pretty neat, pretty neat.

And he was very easy to talk to and a great person. The other experience was that, I didn't know

that you were supposed to always be dressed up when you're going door-to-door and I

remember, I guess I played golf in the morning and in the afternoon I would go door-to-door.

And I guess it was a Saturday and I went right from the golf course to door-to-door and I

remember some of the politicos said, “You're not supposed to wear red shorts when you're

coming out campaigning.” You know, “This is not a country club,” or, “This is not a golf club.

This is a serious campaign,” so, they laid into me pretty good. But, it was difficult for me to you

know wear ties going door-to-door when it's about 95 degrees out so, you know. I did put on a

pair of slacks instead of going in shorts most of the other days I went out, so, it was interesting.

HM: Did I read somewhere that you also had an experience of finding a gentleman unconscious?

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WA: Wow. You did.

HM: Oh, okay.

WA: You did read it someplace, I guess.

HM: Yeah.

WA: Yeah, it caught me by surprise.

HM: Oh, I'm sorry.

WA: It's okay. You caught me by surprise, but yeah, every two years I made it a point to knock

on, maybe, anywhere between eight to 11 thousand doors. And I'm very fortunate; the houses

that live in the 165th District, for the most part, are very close together, some of them are

attached, you know. But I remember that day. I knocked on the front door and the front door

was open, you know, screen door was there. I knocked and nobody answered, okay? And the

television was on and I said, “Hello? Hello? Hello?” and nobody answered, and I walked

around to the garage on the side and there was this gentleman laying on the ground and

unconscious. I ran inside, called the police and the ambulance, they arrived, and you know it

was pretty exciting from the standpoint that he lived, okay? He lived. He has since passed away

but he didn't die of that heart attack that he had and that was good. And I talked to him a little bit

while he was in the hospital, and so forth, and it was quite an experience to know that, you know,

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if I wasn't there that time he might have passed away immediately. But I don't know how you

found that out. I don't know. You did your research; I know that, because that was probably

over 20 years ago. I don't know exactly what year it was.

HM: It was in the [19]90s. Yeah.

WA: It was in the 90s. Yeah. Wow.

HM: Yeah. Do you think campaigning has changed since you were first elected?

WA: Campaigning has changed, Heidi it's, you know, technology. Technology has changed. It's

the instant information. Wherever you go, you know, whether you're off duty or on duty, you're

always on duty now. If you go to a place and you're talking to some neighbors or at the Lions

Club or the Rotary club people know what you said almost immediately, and they Tweet it out

and, you know, Bill Adolph is for or against certain bills and its instant. And the campaigns are

so expensive today, so expensive today. I know the gentleman that ran against me two years

ago, I mean, I think they raised over 500 thousand dollars for a State House race. That was my

most expensive. I probably spent about half of that, but if somebody ever told me 28 years ago

that I would be raising 300 thousand, 250 thousand dollars for this House seat, I would never

have believed it. So there's a lot of money because they're on television now and my area, which

is the Philadelphia media market – don't hold me to this – but, I thought a week was close to 50

thousand dollars a week, you know, to be on the cable stations; not the national networks. So it's

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expensive. And the mailings and the emails, it's very expensive. Big, glossy, colorful mailings,

you know, very expensive.

HM: So, you came to Harrisburg for the first time on your first Swearing-In, or maybe before

that?

WA: Yeah. It was funny, I think, just about, it was almost in the same month. There was a

ceremony up here, a citation going to be presented to the Springfield Boys Club, at the time it

was called, and the current state Rep[resentative] Mary Ann Arty [State Representative,

Delaware County, 1979-1988] was going to present this boys club with a citation. So I think I

came that day, but it was like 30 days before my Swearing-In so, so the Swearing-In was really

the first time I saw anything in the capitol. I saw Mary Ann's office and that was about it that

day.

HM: How did you feel coming to Harrisburg as a brand new Representative?

WA: It's really breathtaking. I mean it's really, you know, you're standing and looking up at the

dome and it's, you got to pinch yourself to see if it's for real. And that's pretty exciting and you

know, you, I read about a lot of these folk you know, at the time, Speaker Jim Manderino [James

J.; State Representative, Westmoreland County, 1967-1989; Speaker, 1989], Matt Ryan

[Matthew J.; State Representative, Delaware County, 1963-2003; Speaker, 1981-1982, 1995-

2003] was the Republican leader, and I had been reading about those two gentlemen in the paper

for quite some time and now, you know, you're working with them and seeing them. It was

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really exciting time to say the least. And having my family up there for my Swearing-In, my

three boys and my mom and dad, it was pretty – I think we had about two or three bus loads

worth of people – It was pretty, pretty exciting; hard to match that, hard to match that.

HM: Where was your first office?

WA: My first office? Well what I did, Heidi, and only because I just said, “Why not?” I moved

right into Mary Ann Arty's office. I figured that's one less headache I had to do, you know,

there's all these orientations that they would hold for freshman legislators, and I said, “Why

worry about selecting an office? Here's, an office that's been there for 10 years. People know

where that's located,” and I just thought it's a smoother transition; one less thing I have to worry

about, and it was centrally located at the time in the district, right on the corner of Baltimore Pike

and Bishop Avenue. So, it worked out pretty good for the first year. But, I wasn't there – I guess

as a result of reapportionment – the next time I had to find a more central location, because it

would have been the last street in the district after that. So I did move. I only moved, you know,

maybe a mile and a half onto Sproul Road. I've been on Sproul Road ever since.

HM: What about your Harrisburg offices?

WA: Yeah, what about my Harrisburg offices? Let's see, my first office was in the East Wing,

which was pretty new at the time, okay? I shared my office with a veteran legislator from

Delaware County, very bright, articulate orator, really, Steve Freind [State Representative,

Delaware County, 1975-1992] who got himself involved in an awful lot of major issues in my

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first and second term there. I still see Steve today on occasions, you know, down at the shore at

some parties that we have some mutual friends. But, that was pretty exciting being his roommate

and he was always on the hot seat, always on the hot seat. Steve never backed away from any

issue and he always had his opinion and he wasn't afraid to speak his opinion. That was pretty

good. I remember, I don't know whether it was Jackie Kennedy's mother or John Kennedy's

mother, came to visit Steve Freind one day and I happened to peak in the door, you know, it was

one of the issues that he was working on. So, right away I saw how deeply involved you can get

in issues that sometimes have some national attention, you know?

HM: So, your office today?

WA: Yeah that was the East Wing. I moved from the East Wing, I probably stayed there for

maybe four terms, maybe. And then, I moved over to the North Office Building. I had an

opportunity to get a bigger office and I didn't have to share it with anyone else; an end office in

the North Office. I stayed there for about probably another four years. And then my mentor here

in Harrisburg, I guess, Matt Ryan, renovated. It was his vision to renovate where we're at right

now in this beautiful building, called the Matthew J. Ryan Building, and I moved my office in

here and it was a beautiful office. I mean, you walk in and you see the portraits, and so forth, are

fantastic and I was there until, probably, the time I was elected by my peers in the Republican

Caucus the Appropriations chair. And then I moved from there into the Main Rotunda area and I

overlooked the Rotunda. It's the opposite side of where the Lieutenant Governor is. I have a

view of all the rallies that go on, on a daily basis in Harrisburg, and I mean, if there's a nicer

office in the United States I'd like to see it. It's very, very impressive and it's a large office. I'm

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not saying my office itself, but the whole office complex that I have; I have 13 budget analysts,

legal counsel, and a conference room where I hold just about daily meetings with other

legislators and I'm meeting with constituents on various state-wide issues on a daily basis and I

bring them into the conference room. So it's a beautiful space, but you know, it's almost like a

second home because during budget times, I mean, you're there seven days a week and

sometimes for 28, 30 straight days, so you're eating three meals a day right in that conference

room. But my office that I had the privilege of having for the last eight years is just, you know,

it's got a fire place in there. I've never turned the fireplace on; I don't even know if it does turn

on, but it's beautiful. Nice place to get your picture taken with constituents and family and

friends.

HM: That was my question; I was going to ask you, is there a prettier office? I don’t think there

is.

WA: With all due respect to the Governor's office in the capitol – and I've had the opportunity,

obviously, over the years to be in there on a regular basis – but, I think it takes a back seat to my

office, yes.

HM: Through all the Swearing-In ceremonies that you've been a part of, are there any that are

memorable to you?

WA: Well, obviously my first and we talked about that already.

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HM: Okay.

WA: I mean, nothing can ever replace that. It was a new chapter of my life, a new chapter of my

life for my family. My parents were very proud of me, but I do remember that when I

announced I wasn't running for reelection I think the two happiest people in my life was my wife

and my father. He said, “I'm so happy I don't have to read any more articles about you in the

newspaper, Bill. I was always afraid about those newspaper articles.” So, I know I'm pleasing at

least two people out there. There’s nothing like that first Swearing-In. The other one was

probably, you know, an historic Swearing-In about the Speaker of the House. I don't exactly

remember what year that was, but normally the voting of a Speaker is normally a given, okay?

You know, the majority party selects the individual who they would like to be the Speaker of the

House and out of professional curtsy that's a given. Sometimes the minority party will go along

with that and just put up the votes and congratulate. It's a very formal process you know. But

this one time it didn't go that way. I remember we all had, you know, some Danish and sodas

waiting back at your offices for your family and stuff; that never happened that day. That never

happened that day. Five or six hours later, there were a couple votes if I remember correctly and

a rank-and-file member became the Speaker of the House of the minority party. That was the

kind of the crazy thing; that the minority party, which at the time was Republican, became the

Speaker of the House over the favorite, they thought it was a given, Speaker of the House, who

later became the Speaker of the House later on, but not that day. And, you know, I know all the

names I don't need to go through all the names right now, but that was, I'm telling you, I came up

here unaware of what was going on.

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HM: Was it a surprise?

WA: Got involved in it right away. Yes.

HM: You've mentioned your family several times.

WA: Yes.

HM: How hard is it to balance your relationships back home versus all the work that you do here

in Harrisburg?

WA: Well there's, you know in any professional career it's difficult. I don't know if it's any more

difficult other than what you do and the decisions that you make in your job get publicized, and I

think that's the toughest aspect of it. Having your 16 year old son, your father, you mother, your

cousins, your neighbors, you know, if there's a negative editorial written about what you may

have proposed in Harrisburg – there's always two opinions on just about every issue – that took a

while to get used to. That took a while to get used to, but you get used to it. Now, I don't know

if they have, but I have. So that's a difficult aspect of it. The overnight stays, probably no

different than a professional who's traveling or a construction person who’s, you know, out on

the site, and so forth and so on; it's just part of the job. I knew that. I'm about 110 miles away

from my house to the capitol. You know, if you get out of here at a decent hour your probably

worth the two hour ride back home. But, you’re back up, most days I'm in the capitol by 7:30,

and first meetings normally around eight o'clock, so it's hard to commute at that distance. Some

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of my colleagues from Erie and Greene County, it's impossible, Pittsburgh area, it's impossible to

commute. So they get here on Monday morning, some come in on Sunday nights, and you're

there, for the most part, either late Wednesday night or sometime on Thursday. So that's difficult

on the family and, you know, I had three boys. Two, I guess, were in high school and I had a

baby. I mean, my youngest son was three years old. He's six foot three today, but I remember

holding him at my Swearing-In. But, you try to do what you can do and I always have a little

saying up here – your health and family first. And those decisions, you put those first;

everything else will fall into place.

HM: You talked about having mentors. Matt Ryan and, you know, Stephen Friend – just sharing

his office.

WA: Just sharing. But, no question about it, I mean, Matt and Steve were complete opposites.

HM: Yes.

WA: Complete opposites. Both very bright individuals. Matt was very polished and listened an

awful lot and he would always make you feel comfortable while you're talking to him, but

eventually he'll get what he wants, okay? And I don't know how many years Matt had served but

it was, you know, four decades. And back in his first 25 years it was a part-time legislature and

things changed over the years. But, he had a love for this Institution and love for state

government. I'm sure Matt was asked numerous times to run for a higher office, whether it

would be at the federal level, whether it would be for governor of the Commonwealth, but Matt

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loved the Pennsylvania House of Representatives and he always told me, he said, “Bill, the most

important vote that you make up here is the state budget. All these issues that we get involved

in, nothing can work until we get the budget done.” And there has been laws that we have

passed and changed that have improved that grid lock, as far as that state government doesn't

come to a complete halt. And the courts have helped as well, but Matt believed that, you know,

June 30th we got to get this done and that's probably helped me along the lines in trying to get

budgets done. Sometimes we have not been successful, but it's not for the sake of not trying.

That Constitutional requirement of getting the budget done on time and balanced by June 30th

has always been important to me and as a result of Matt. And Steve Friend just taught me

courage; if you believe in something you just have to believe that if it just needs to get done here

in Pennsylvania, you know, don't be afraid to take on tough issues. And Steve had a lot of

courage. A lot of us didn't always agree, okay? But Steve was a very courageous legislator.

HM: Do you believe you've been able to mentor anybody since you've been here?

WA: Well, you know, you would like to think so, Heidi, but that's probably a better question for

those that I've talked to over the years.

HM: Okay.

WA: And, you know, I have some legislators here that I've roomed with and I've called little

brothers, you know, because I never had a brother – he'll know who I'm talking about – and

there's been other members of the House that have come and gone that I've, you know, taken a

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liking to, knew that there was a future and I've tried to help guide them into their next chapter of

their lives. And so, you know, I would say yes, but it's up to them to think if they look at me as a

mentor.

HM: Okay. I'd like to talk about your legislation now.

WA: Okay.

HM: You've had several pieces of legislation passed into law. Is there any one that you're

especially proud of?

AW: Well, Heidi, I don't know how many bills that I've introduced that eventually became law.

You know, if I was to guess I would say 20 and they're the ones – a lot of legislation that I've

introduced over the years became amendments on to other bills, okay, and that probably would

bring the number to over 40. But they're ones that really have meant an awful lot. We, in

Pennsylvania, had a particular time where we had doctors leaving Pennsylvania and I was no

expert in the field, but in my area the medical profession, the health systems, is probably one of

the largest industries. I have close to 18 hundred registered nurses in my legislative district. My

wife's a registered nurse. There's hospitals, you know, we are very lucky to have all the

outstanding hospitals; I probably have 20 within 20 miles, and I'm not exaggerating. Some are

world class hospitals. And I was on the hospital board and I kept on hearing about they can't get

doctors to come, and the main reason was the medical malpractice insurance. So I got myself

involved in that issue and we were able to change some obvious flaws that were in the current

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law. You know, obviously when there's mistakes made, the victim of the mistakes needs to be

compensated. But there were some laws that we had here in Pennsylvania no other states had, so

they needed to be changed. So that was an important piece of legislation and very difficult, very

difficult. Another law that, actually as a result of my accounting practice and my tax

preparation, was, we have a very, very great program in Pennsylvania; it's called the property tax

and rent rebate program and it's for the disabled and senior citizens. If you're income is below

“x” amount of dollars, you qualify for a rebate as long as you pay your taxes. Funds come out of

the Pennsylvania lottery and the school districts and the county and the townships, they still get

their property tax, but the person who pays it, as long as they qualify, would get a rebate, for the

most part, around 500 dollars which is a substantial rebate. There was a flaw in the law for

railroad employees and some federal employees; they don't pay Social Security. Never did pay

Social Security, they do not receive Social Security, and in our formula, if you receive 25

thousand dollars a year in Social Security, you only had to report on this income criteria, 50

percent of that, but if you were a railroad employee and you received 25 thousand dollars you

had to report the whole 25 thousand. Well, there was no difference between their pension and

what we get in Social Security. So, we changed the law to include federal employees that don't

collect social security, that this is their only pension and if they're railroad employees this is their

only source of income and that's their pension and no Social Security – they could also have that

same exemption of 50 percent of their pension – and I'm telling you, that really has helped an

awful lot of senior citizens throughout the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It put them on an

equal ground with those that receive Social Security. It's something that if I didn't have that

background as a tax preparer, you would not even know that. But it was something I said, you

know, “Why aren't they being treated just like someone else?” So that worked, and that that took

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a couple terms to get by, and you got to make sure that the lottery is in good financial position to

extract some more benefits out of it, but it worked. And then, one for industry; down by the

Philadelphia Navy yard we had a huge ship builder, okay? And they were paying double

workers comp[ensation]; they were paying workers comp at the federal level and workers comp

at the state level. And it's not as if the employee of this ship builder could receive two benefits

when they got hurt. It was some type of law that we had on our books and it was costing this

one ship builder over a million dollars more. And I rolled up my sleeves, got involved in the

issue, traveled out to Erie where there's another ship builder, and so forth, and saw what it was

and we were able to work that out and keep the – because, they bid on these ships, and when

you're paying a million dollars more in workers comp when you don't need to, now you can be

more competitive with the bid and the company is thriving today. So that was good and of

course you have jobs remaining in your area. And then I guess, most recently in a more personal

level, I had a constituent come in to me, a mom and dad, come in to me and tell me about the

suicide of their son, who was a young professional attorney, a beautiful family, but he suffered

from depression. They wanted me to introduce a piece of legislation that would mandate that if

you are a mental health specialist in any type of field, that one hour of your continuing

professional education hours would have to be on certain signs of suicide, and be trained, you

know, depending on what they're saying, how they're acting, so you can notify the family, and

we were able to pass that. That was very emotional, you know, for the family and Governor

Wolf signed that in law this past year, so that was good, that was good. So, most of the stuff

matters and some of this legislation – you know, I used to always tease my colleagues about

bridge naming's. I was here for 27 years I never had a bridge naming or a road naming. I just

never got involved in that. But I had a very close friend, a former colleague of mine, who was

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actually my closest friend up here who died of cancer suddenly, and there was a section of 322,

up by Mifflintown, that this gentleman, Dan Clark [Daniel F.; State Representative, Juniata,

Mifflin, Perry and Snyder Counties, 1989-2002], was his name, worked very hard in funding to

widen 322. And we were able to get a little section of 322, right by Mifflintown, named after

Dan. So, that was my only road naming and I look upon that a little differently than I did for 27

years because it was important. Yes.

HM: You've also been involved on the PHEAA (Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance

Agency) board?

WA: Yes. Yes.

HM: And so, can you talk a little bit about that and what do you think some of the challenges are

that's facing PHEAA?

WA: Well, you know, first of all it's been a great experience. Really a great experience and I

have to, once again, thank Matt Ryan, who saw fit to nominate me and put me on the PHEAA

board. When I got on the board – I have, I think, its five colleges or universities in my

legislative district. And so, higher education has always been an issue for me and you really get

close to higher education when you're involved in the PHEAA board, whether it’s the state

system, or state-related, or the private institutions. PHEAA provides grants through the state to

make higher education more accessible and affordable for middle income and lower income

folks. It's been a rewarding experience and we've had an awful lot of good board members over

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the years and we've had some tough financial times. When the market crashed and we could not

borrow and our loans were more than our cash coming in, it was a tough time. But fortunately,

we had a summit – I think I nicknamed it a summit – and I brought in all the bank executives

throughout the Commonwealth and our Washington, D.C. Congressional delegation, our U.S.

Senators, our U.S. Congressman, and some of the brightest people in the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania and we got it right, we got it right. We made some real tough decisions and it took

a couple years but we started eliminating some of the things we did over there and reformed the

program and today, we are now servicing about 25 percent of all student loans for the federal

government. We have employees of four thousand Pennsylvania residents employed by PHEAA

and our main office is right here in Harrisburg, obviously, but we have, what they call, call

centers out in Pittsburgh, State College, one in Delaware County, right by the Commodore Barry

Bridge. Right now, we're in very good shape. Financially, I think PHEAA has contributed, over

the last five years, millions of dollars towards this grant system out of their earnings. So,

sometimes PHEAA doesn't get a lot of credit for that, but it has saved taxpayers an awful lot of

money and has put an awful lot of good kids into college that would have never been able to get

there and they become, you know, good citizens and taxpayers of Pennsylvania for the future.

HM: One other question regarding legislation: you are constantly supporting measures for

funding for epilepsy, as well?

WA: Yeah. Yeah, it's always seems to come up and the reason I got myself involved in there is

strictly because there's some family members that have had some issues with epilepsy and when

I came up here and met some families that were looking for help, you know, it reminded me of

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what sometimes my day was like with some family members, and so forth, and I got involved

with the Epilepsy Foundation both in Southeast and Western Pennsylvania and now Central

Pennsylvania, and at one time they would get some grants, and so forth, but through a lot of help

from other legislators. One of my colleagues, Tom Tangretti [Thomas; State Representative,

Westmoreland County, 1989-2008], from Allegheny County, was kind of my sidekick during

those lobbying days when we were looking for – we wanted a line item, and we were able to get

a line item in the state budget; they get about 500 thousand dollars. Most of these folks that are

involved in the Epilepsy Foundation are volunteers. Obviously, they have some paid staff that

run a full-time office and stuff, but it's all about education; they educate the schools that if you

have a child in the school that has epilepsy and they have a seizure what to do about it. Educate

the families that may see this and so forth. Because, you know, a grand mal seizure, it can be a

scary thing to witness, but education and getting the proper care early in life really can help you

and I truly believe that. That's the first thing I turn to when I see the budget that the Governor's

proposing; I go right to that, I go right to the health line items and see what the appropriation was

for epilepsy. Yeah, it's meant an awful lot to me and I love doing it.

HM: Well, you've talked about, a lot about budgets and you've been through a lot of budget

cycles.

WA: Yeah I had a lot more hair, Heidi, when I was first elected Appropriations chair. I've

served under Governor Rendell [Edward; 2003-2011], I was the minority chair, and then

Governor Corbett [Thomas; 2011-2015], and now Governor Wolf [Thomas; 2015-present].

Three different personalities, for sure. Three men with their own vision and different economies,

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as well. And I always say the strength of Pennsylvania is its diversity until you try to get a

budget together, and it becomes difficult, it becomes difficult. Going back to, you know, getting

this done on June 30th has always been a top priority. I was the chairman for eight years; I

would say seven out of the eight are what I would call on-time budgets. Obviously, 2015-2016

was definitely the toughest for me as chairman. Back in 1991, we had the same situation; of

course, I wasn't in leadership at the time. But, it's tough and I'm telling you we have some great

staff that have devoted their life to being the budget analyst and they're there day and night and,

you know, for the last two weeks in June, sometimes, they are there 24 hours a day, working on

the various proposals, and so forth. And same with the Administration staff, and so forth. It's a

process. It's a process and you go through the budget hearings, you know, it's a three-week

process of, probably, 10-hour days in front of television, and so forth, and going through the

interrogation of the Secretaries for the various Departments and a lot of numbers, and so forth,

from Penn State University to Lincoln University to the state-system, to the community colleges.

But it's important; it’s the most important thing that we do, and you have to have an

understanding for all the regions. One of the things I did when I became chairman is to make

sure that the committee is balanced. It would have been a lot easier to put everybody that's in the

Southeast on that committee, but that's just not the way it works. Or put everybody from Central

Pennsylvania on that committee. And everybody's in agreement until we get to the floor of the

House and say, well, we're not for that. So the one thing I did, right from day one, is make sure I

had a balanced committee, which means that I had legislators representing every part of the

Commonwealth on that committee, so when we would move a bill we would have someone who

understands what that aspect would do in that region. It has helped, because when we get to the

Caucus, they also see that there was a particular interest in every part of the state. So that has

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helped, that has helped, but it's still very difficult. No one wants to make cuts that hurt folks and

no one wants to raise taxes. But what happens is, is that when you have employees, state police,

PennDOT, the work that they do and, you know, all the state employees, it takes money, it takes

money. But you have to be responsible and as long as you are able to explain what you're doing,

I think you're okay and that people are okay with it. But you can't overspend because people

don't want that. And they get it. But they understand cost of living. You just can't continue

collecting the same amount of money for a five-year period and not expect a change.

HM: How was it working with your Democratic counterparts?

WA: Well, you know, my first time at the budget table I was in the minority. It was my first

budget and Governor Rendell was a big personality and he had his way about him. And my

counterpart was Dwight Evans [State Representative, Philadelphia County, 1981-2016; U.S.

Representative, 2017-present], and Dwight, I think, it was like his 25th year or something as the

Democratic Appropriations chair. But I was fortunate. I understood the numbers. I understood

the taxes, but I really didn't understand the negotiation part of it. And fortunately, there were

other members of our Caucus, Sam Smith [Samuel H.; State Representative, Armstrong,

Clearfield, Indiana and Jefferson Counties, 1987-2014; Speaker, 2011-2014], in particular, that

helped me an awful lot during that budget process. It was a good learning process, but back in

those days, I mean, you get in the room and you have to get it done and seven hours later you

come out, and you present the proposal to your Caucus members. And you stay in there and see

what they have to say and Governor Corbett, you know, Governor Corbett came at probably very

tough time. You know, we just lost three billion dollars' worth of federal stimulus money, and

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the economy was not good, and it was different, it was a different time, but we got it done. Joe

Markosek [Joseph; State Representative, Allegheny and Westmoreland Counties, 1983-present]

replaced Dwight Evans. And Joe and I, you know, I couldn't ask for a better gentleman to work

with, he's quite a gentleman. Obviously, he has a different constituency that he has to answer to

than I, but his job, you know, the majority party tries to get through the Governor's budget

proposal, to a point where, as long as you agree with that. You try to get the Governor's, your

Governor's, budget through. Joe's experiencing that now with Governor Wolf. But, Joe's a great

guy. I get along with him. He's a gentleman, he's soft spoken, he's smart and it's been a good

experience to work with Joe Markosek. And, you know, all three Governor's that I served under

are all different, but at the end of the day you may disagree on issues, but as long as they believe

in what they're doing I respect them.

HM: Well, I'd like to talk about some of your memories now. Do you have a fondest memory of

serving in the House?

WA: Did I have the fondest memory of serving in the House? Well, generally speaking, it's the

people. I mean, it's definitely the people. There's so many people that have gone through the

House, mainly the House, because that's where I have served. You know, they take a portrait of

the House members the first or second month that you get Sworn-In, and I have, hanging in my

District office, the first term and my last term. When you walk in the office, it's the same picture

but, there's only a few members that are there. I test myself to see if I can remember, you know,

what he or she name was, and where, and it's amazing that the folks that have come through that

House. An awful lot of good people have come into that House. It's the relationships, Heidi,

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that you remember the most. Any time when your colleagues give you a standing ovation for,

whether it was your comments, or your courage to stand up for something, sometimes you have

to cross the aisle and speak up. But you have to show respect and, so, when your colleagues, you

know, honor you by clapping and giving you a standing ovation that has happened on occasions

for me. So that makes everything all worthwhile. Helping folks back home, get bills through

that make a difference is very rewarding. So, they're my fondest memories and they're lifelong

memories.

HM: What aspect of being a representative will you not miss?

WA: Heidi, you asked me that on a good day. The ride to Harrisburg; it all depends on when you

leave. The travel; that back-and-forth is really something that you have to be careful, I mean, for

me it's only 110 miles, but it can be anywhere between a two-hour and three-hour drive

depending on what time of the year it is or what time of the day it is. Sometimes it takes me 40

minutes just to get to the turnpike if I leave here at the wrong time. And it takes me, sometimes,

an hour to get to the turnpike from my house if I leave in rush hour, between the Blue Route and

the Schuylkill Expressway. So, I'm not going to miss that drive, I'm not going to miss that drive.

But other than that, I mean, the personalities you can't – I try to meet as many of the legislators

as I can, you know, just to say, “Hello,” to them, and so forth and so on. The one thing they do

up here which I never quite understood why, they keep the Republicans and the Democrats

separate; I never understood that. Some of my best friends are on the Democratic side; I knew

them prior to serving in the legislature. But, I don't know why they do that. I mean, their offices

are on this side, the Republicans on this side. I know there was a House member who gave his

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farewell speech yesterday, a gentleman by the name of Mike Regan [State Representative,

Cumberland and York Counties, 2013-2016; State Senator, 2017-present], and he just got elected

to state Senate, and he said, “You know, this last term I sat on the Democratic side [of the

floor],” and he said, “I learned a lot,” he says, “just talking to them and getting to know them.”

They keep you separate up here; the Republican Caucus room, the Democratic Caucus room. I

understand that is definitely necessary, but it's good to be able to share offices together, you

know, or that type of stuff. Something that I think would make it a little easier to get things

done, instead of some of the things – I think you take Caucus positions on some of the things that

we do. I think that people of Pennsylvania would be better served without Caucus positions, but

both Caucuses do it.

HM: You've already touched on technology as being one of the things that's changed since

you’ve been first elected.

WA: Yeah.

HM: Are there any other things that you’ve witnessed that are changing?

WA: Well, my desk on the floor of the House has certainly changed. I have a laptop now, a nice

computer there, and I used to come down on the floor and I literally would have maybe two feet

worth of paper on both sides of my desk and you would have to, you know, read that bill and go

through the 75 pages and there would be paper there, and then the synopsis, and the analysis of

it. Now, we have everything on the computer and we can access that before we even come down

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to the floor, so it's just fantastic. It is fantastic, the equipment you have here. We are definitely

blessed that way, and you can be better prepared, better prepared, because you Caucus these bills

and if you happen to be on the standing committee you know the bills a little bit better. All the

bills come though the Appropriations committee, but they just come through for a fiscal note.

You get into the language a little bit, but we are mainly concerned on the cost to the

Commonwealth. But Caucus is helpful, you know, and we get good conversations in our

Caucus, which is healthy, but it's a lot easier now with the computers. That and security;

security has really changed and it's a good thing and it's an unfortunate thing. In my early years

here there were some tragedies, just before I got here. Tragedies nationwide and, once again, the

legislature decided to increase the line item on security and now, just like airports, you have all

the screening processes coming in and identification cards, and so forth, in order to get into

rooms, and so forth, so you know it was just necessary. But you certainly feel a lot safer. I

remember one of my first budget hearings, way back when, when a group lit a phone book on

fire and then threw it at the chairman of the Appropriations committee. Wasn't me at the time. I

think I was a freshman sitting way back in the background, but, you know, that couldn't happen

today. That couldn't happen today, because there's protests and rallies, and so forth and so on,

and you know security is necessary and they do a great job in protecting the public and that come

to Harrisburg on a daily basis and the folks that work here.

HM: Wow, I never heard that story before.

WA: Yeah, oh yeah. I don't know what year that was but it was probably early [19]90s, my first

or second budget. Yeah, yeah.

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HM: You had mentioned meeting Ronald Regan. Have you met any other notable people?

WA: Well, yes, I mean, that's something that I would have never had the opportunity as a partner

in a small accounting firm in Springfield, Delaware County. I would have never had that

opportunity and, yes, I mean I had the opportunity of introducing President Bush in front of my

neighbors. We had a couple thousand folks come out. President Bush was running for reelection

against Bill Clinton at the time, and he visited Springfield and the crowd was pumped. We had

our high school bands out there and it was fantastic and I introduced him to the crowd and that

was something I'll never forget. I met his son later on when he was President. I had a nice

conversation with him, had my picture taken with him. These opportunities just don't happen if

you're not in public office. Ed Rendell, I mean, national celebrity without question, and working

with the three governors, Governor Corbett, Governor Wolf. I remember Governor Wolf called

me up, called my cell phone, “Hello Bill, this is Tom Wolf,” I mean, that's pretty special. That's

pretty special. So, you know, going to the Governor's residence when they would bring in the

legislators on a given night and just to get to know who you are. Obviously, there's other

mornings and afternoons where we're talking business, but you know, that first time that you

walk into that residence it's pretty impressive. So Governor Tom Ridge, you know, I wasn't in

leadership when Governor Ridge was in office. The economy was good under the Ridge

Administration, and we never had to make the tough decisions that we've made in over the last

10 years, say. But Tom, Tom Ridge was a great personality, a great Governor, you know, served

out country in the service and in Homeland Security; the first Homeland Security. And to walk

into a restaurant here in Harrisburg and if Governor Ridge happens to be in town that day and

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have him walk up and say, “Hey, Bill, how are you doing?” I mean, how do you replace that?

It's just stuff that you're proud of and it's a good experience.

HM: Did you have any disappointments or regrets?

WA: Well, nothing earth shattering, okay? Nobody likes to lose. Everybody is competitive and

– knock on wood – I never lost a legislative election. That, I think, I'm very fortunate for that

and I thank the people of the 165th district for that. But, I remember there was some legislation

that I ran a couple times and I always got 99 votes. One of my buddies bought me a football

jersey with the number ninety nine. Well, you need 102 to pass and they said, “Bill can get you

99 votes on anything you need.” I mean that's disappointing. It's disappointing that you're not

successful in getting legislation through and you get defeated on the floor of the House. That's

disappointing, but you move on. If you don't, you won't be successful on your next piece of

legislation.

HM: What advice would you have for new members?

WA: What advice would I have for new members? Listen. Listen to your colleagues and don't

judge before you listen to them. There's a reason why they're saying this and you just have to

figure out why. And once they explain it to you, you still may not agree with them, but you have

to listen. Don't make a fast judgement. Sometimes folks are put in little caucuses, you know?

But when you go to their district and you meet their constituents and you meet their businesses,

you see why they may have a difference of opinion than you do. And that's what you have to do.

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I happen to be in the position as Appropriations chair to travel the state, to see how our money

that was appropriated to this county, how it is improved those counties and businesses. It's good

to do that and just keep an open mind. Keep an open mind and represent the folks that voted you

in to office, but remember you represent the entire Commonwealth when you're up here. So, it

all falls into place.

HM: How would you like your like your tenure to be remembered?

WA: How would I like my tenure? I guess there's probably one word – fair. Fair and honest.

You know I just try to be truthful to people. If the answer is "no" the answer is "no," and if I

support something I'll support it, but if I oppose something I'm just going to tell them I oppose it

for this reason and if they can change my mind that's another thing, but I'm not going to deceive

them. And that goes for the folks back home. I'm not going to say one thing back home and do

another thing up here. You know, try to be consistent. You have to be fair and honest.

HM: That was the last question I have for you.

WA: Oh good.

HM: But I do like to give you the opportunity, if there's anything else that you feel like I didn't

cover.

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WA: No I just, you know, if I have a closing comment I just want to thank the folks back home

that trusted me for all those years and thank my colleagues and staff that I had the privilege of

working with up here.

HM: Okay, well thank you so much.

WA: Thank you, Heidi. Thank you.