plaintiffs' msj exhibits pt. 4

8/14/2019 Plaintiffs' MSJ Exhibits Pt. 4

http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/plaintiffs-msj-exhibits-pt-4 1/92

Case 1:03-cv-11661-NG Document 875-4 Filed 07/13/2009 of 92



Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D. July 2, 2009

31 (Pages 118 to 121

Page 118

1 work in econometrics at either the masters or2 graduate level -- masters or doctoral level?3 A. Econometrics, no.4 Q. Have you taken any course work 5 in microeconomics at the either masters or6 doctorate level?7 A. No.8 Q. Have you taken any course work 9 in industrial organization at the doctorate

10 or masters level?11 A. No, I have not.12 Q. So you've never done any type13 of dissertation in economics, I take it?14 A. No dissertation work, but -- and15 also we were discussing the collaboration with16 the Harvard Business School, so working one on17 one directly with economics professors or other18 Internet entrepreneurs, seeing how the business

19 models are evolving.20 Q. Okay. And so let's talk about that.21 You mentioned one-on-one training. Could you22 describe that for me.23 A. That would be analyzing data sets24 and seeing if there's -- what the impact is,25 So the methodology of how you can establish

Page 119

1 links between -- or infer links between audio2 CD sales and download statistics.3 Q. Okay. And that work, the work and

4 the analysis in those instances was done by the5 economists, right?6 A. That is correct. So we both7 branched into each other's fields to make sure8 that the gap in the middle was scientifically9 sound.

10 Q. Correct. And so you provided11 the technical aspects, and they provided12 the economic aspects of the research?13 A. Yeah, but -- yes, indeed.14 Q. And that was in connection with15 what specifically?

16 A. It was both the audio markets,17 and we tried to also do the video markets.18 MR. REYNOLDS: You guys, I can hear19 you. Isaac, you're not on mute. I can hear20 you.21 MR. MEISTER: I'm sorry. Excuse me.22 MR. REYNOLDS: That's okay.23 Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Dr. Pouwelse, you24 said you did this in connection with an audio25 and a video study. Could you be more specific

Page 120

1 in terms of who you did this with and when.2 A. This was, as we discussed earlier --3 let me refer to my CV. So this was the ongoing4 work with Harvard Business School. So this was5 from June 2006 onwards with Professor Felix6 Oberholzer-Gee and his friends.7 Q. And I will -- I'll provide the8 court reporter with those names later, but --9 so that instance, that's the one-on-one training

10 that you've had, was in connection with the11 2006 -- June to August 2006 work, research12 you did at the Harvard Business School?13 A. Yes, that was the full-time14 work on that, and that continued onwards15 as nonfull-time -- nonfull-time research.16 Q. So after August 2006 you17 continued but on a nonfull-time basis?18 A. That is correct.

19 Q. Any other one-on-one experience20 you've had with economists similar to that?21 A. Yes. So that is also the Harvard22 econ computer science people and -- yeah,23 and other less intense contacts with various24 economists.25 Q. Okay. Tell me about the Harvard

Page 121

1 econ computer science contact.2 A. That's Professor David Parks.3 He's one of the experts in self-organizing

4 markets and mechanism design.5 Q. And is that research listed in your6 CV?7 A. That is listed under research and8 professional experience. That is the June 2007,9 August 2007 item.

10 Q. Okay. And again, your role there11 was to provide the technology, and his role was12 to provide the economics and collaborating in13 order to prepare a report, is that right, or14 to do the research at least?15 A. Yeah, but in this case our

16 expertises are overlapping, so we really17 do -- because this is self-organizing markets18 and that is closely related to my work.19 Q. In other words, the economic work 20 is closely related to your work?21 A. The economics work in the area of 22 self-organizing markets is fully overlapping23 with my -- with my peer-to-peer research.24 Q. Okay. Could you explain that to25 me.




Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D. July 2, 2009

33 (Pages 126 to 129

Page 126

1 Q. Those are what you view as the2 important ones?3 A. That is correct.4 Q. Okay. So you've chosen two.5 There are many more papers, right?6 A. Yes.7 Q. And you've chosen two of them?8 A. Yes. They range from a master9 student who did that for a few months, which

10 is not worth mentioning, for instance.11 Q. Okay. And the two that you've12 mentioned are -- one is the Oberholzer-Gee13 study, and the one that you cited is -- it's14 listed as Footnote 4 in your report, which is15 a March 2004 study?16 A. Yes. That actually is the same17 person we discussed at the Harvard Business18 School, who did -- so this is the audio study

19 from Harvard Business School.20 Q. Okay. And that's one of the studies21 that you rely on to make your statement that22 the economic impacts of file sharing are poorly23 understood?24 A. That is correct.25 Q. And then you also rely on a 2009

Page 127

1 Dutch Ministries of Education study, right?2 A. Yes, that is correct.3 Q. And that's cited as Footnote 5 in

4 your report?5 A. Yes.6 Q. And those are the only two studies7 you cite, right?8 A. Yes. These are the more in-depth9 and reliable studies.

10 Q. And that's based on what, when you11 say more in-depth and reliable?12 A. My reading of these studies and my13 judgment of the scientific quality of other14 studies.15 Q. So based on your reading of these

16 studies and your judgment of the scientific17 quality of the other studies, you believe18 these two to be the most authoritative?19 A. Yes.20 MR. REYNOLDS: Could you pull up,21 Mr. Van der Laan -- I believe I've got the22 March 2004 effect of file sharing and --23 MR. VAN DER LAAN: The name of the24 file?25 MR. REYNOLDS: It might just be OG.

Page 128

1 I thought it was -- Mr. Pouwelse, you can look 2 through that. I don't know whether you've seen3 it.4 It's got the URL -- well, actually,5 it doesn't have the URL on it, but it says at6 the top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record7 Sales, An Empirical Analysis."8 MR. VAN DER LAAN: Did you send it9 to me yesterday?

10 MR. REYNOLDS: I'm pretty sure11 I sent it to you yesterday or the day before.12 I could send it to Dr. Pouwelse right now if 13 you don't have it.14 MR. VAN DER LAAN: Yeah, I have it.15 MR. REYNOLDS: And then I sent you16 another one yesterday that is -- I labeled it,17 I think, Dutch report. It's about 100-some-odd18 pages.

19 A. So we found "The Effect of File20 Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis,"21 the March 2005 -- 2004 study.22 Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Correct.23 A. And the other one?24 Q. And the other one, it says,25 "TNO Information and Communication Technology."

Page 129

1 A. I have both reports now in front of 2 me.3 Q. Okay. Give me one second.

4 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibits 85 and 9 were marked.)6 Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) So let's take7 them one at a time, Dr. Pouwelse. The first8 one you have in front of you, it says at the9 top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record

10 Sales, An Empirical Analysis," and it's dated11 March 2004?12 A. Yes, I have that one.13 Q. And it's marked as Exhibit 8.14 A. I have marked it as 8.15 Q. Okay. And this is what you cite

16 in Footnote 4 of your report, correct?17 A. I believe that is correct.18 Q. And the next document is -- it says19 at the top, "TNO Information and Communication20 Technology"?21 A. That is correct.22 Q. Could you mark that as 9, please.23 A. As 9, yes.24 Q. And now this Exhibit 9 is what you25 reference in Footnote 5 of your report, correct?


plaintiffs' msj exhibits pt. 4

Documents