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PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT

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Page 1: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS

REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT

Page 2: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

OUTLINE• Plato’s aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of

critiques in Rep. 2 & 3– Mimesis first mooted: returns in Rep. 10

• Rep. 10 critique of mimetic painting & poetry: epic and tragedy– Ontological & epistemological grounds

– Psychological and ethical reasons also

• Some specific targets? Scenes from Homer

• Overall political & cultural critique

Page 3: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

PLATONIC AESTHETICS • Inseparable from

– Education– Ontology: theories of ‘being’– Epistemology: theories of knowledge– Psychology – Ethics & Justice– Politics

• Issues addressed elsewhere in Republic– Plato addresses legacy of poets: Homer, Hesiod, et al. – His intellectual precursors– Poets seen as teachers of religion, ethics, law

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PLATONIC AESTHETICS II• Plato expresses different views on art & poetry elsewhere• Phaedrus: Plato admires mania of poet

• Ion: poetry beautiful and true– But poets/rhapsodes irrational and lack knowledge– Have no rational control– Operate under inspiration = ENTHOUSIASMOS

• Republic 10: poet = imitator only– No inspiration– Plato on poetry: Curb Your Enthousiasmos

• Apology: Socrates invokes Homeric Achilles as his model!

Page 5: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

SOCRATIC ACHILLES?

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Socrates?

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Achilles?

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SOCRATIC ACHILLES?

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Achilles? Socrates?

Page 7: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

PLATO’S FORERUNNERS• Anticipated and contradicted by other Greek thinkers

• Xenophanes c. 570-480 BC• Heraclitus, active, c. 500 BC• Protagoras, c. 490-20 BC

• Antilogica said to contain everything in Plato’s Republic!

• But Protagoras sees poetry at the heart of education

• Gorgias, c. 480-375 BC• Democritus, c. 465-380 BC• Dissoi Logoi - sophistic treatise c. 400 BC

• Ethics• Epistemology• Aesthetics

Page 8: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Why does Plato banish epic & tragic poetry in Republic 10?

• Cultural issues to be explored• Centrality of poetry in Archaic & Classical Greece

– Vehicle for social values, mores, – History, education, cultural identity, politics– But also a lot more…

• Greece in 400s till largely an oral & visual culture– I.e. not ‘bookish’– Literacy a public phenomenon = reading aloud– Paintings, statues, buildings also shape & reflect public

sentiment & ideology

Page 9: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Athens vs Persia 480-79

• Spearheads triumph over Persia

• Marathon 490• Major invasion 10 years later• Salamis 480, Plataea 479• Sets up Delian league

Page 10: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Athens, post 480 BC• Spearheads triumph over

Persia• Sets up Delian league

– Source of tribute and wealth to protect states from Persia

– Becomes treasury for Athenian empire

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Athens: ‘The School of Hellas’• By 450 BC Athens is imperial

power• ‘ Periclean Golden Age’

• Funeral Speech• Thucydides’ History book 2

• Athens as cultural centre • Intellectuals• Sophists/philosophers• Poets• Playwrights• Cultural festivals: • Panathenaia, City Dionysia,

etc.Pericles rules 443-29 BC

Page 12: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Athens as Cultural leader

Theatre of Dionysos Acropolis, Athens

Cf. Pericles: ‘Look on her power and become a lover of the city.’ (Thucydides)

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Athens: Home of Tragedy

Aeschylus: 525-456 BC

Euripides, c. 480-405

Sophocles, c. 496-405

Page 14: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Some Greek writers on art• Polyclitus

– Sculptor active c. 450-410 BC– Author of ‘Canon’– A technical treatise– Philosophical overtones?

• Parrhasius• Empedocles• Hippias• Gorgias• Democritus• Apelles• Euphranor, et al.

– Sources in Pliny– Vitruvius

Polyclitus, Doryphorus c. 445 BC

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Athens: ‘The School of Hellas’• Socrates denounces mainstays of Attic

civic and cultural life• Rhetoric• Tragedy• Homeric epic• Democracy• Legal procedures• Political leaders like Pericles, et al.

• Socrates; seen by many many as

dangerously pro-Spartan• Oligarchic/anti-democratic

Socrates not a fan

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Aftermath of Peloponnesian War 404/3 BC

• Athens defeated by Sparta & Allies• Loses empire & Long Walls razed• 30 tyrants imposed by Sparta

– Critias, Charmides, et al.– Students of Socrates

• Democracy restored 403– Amnesty granted; no political charges allowed– Socrates brought to trial on non-political charges– Extreme democrats want him punished

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Socrates: A problem to his city

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Death of Socrates,Jacques-Louis David

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Related to oligarchs Critias & Charmides Plato writes dialogues 380s-350s

after Athens loses war Dialogues: scope for character, narrative, wit, irony Plato: a great philosopher in own right

supreme literary artist also said to be a champion wrestler when young …

PLATO 428-347 BC

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PLATO 428-347 BC

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His misspent youth?

Page 20: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Plato on Homer and Hesiod

Homer: Iliad and Odyssey Hesiod: Theogony & Works and Days

Page 21: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Homeric poetry in schools• Recitation of Iliad & Odyssey• Seen as educative

– Religion, lore, ethics– Herodotus, Plato, Xenophon– Cf. Aristophanes Frogs

• But criticised early– Xenophanes & Heraclitus

• Iliad very complex in ethics

Page 22: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Xenophanes of Colophon, c. 570-480

• General skepticism: B34– But still dogmatic himself

• Critique of conventional religion in art and epic poetry Critic of social conventions

• Anthropomorphic religion– Homer & Hesiod

• Mythic subject matter (B1)– Titanomachies,– Centauromachies, etc.

• Postulates ethically sound sympotic poetry

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François vase, c. 570

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Xenophanes: frr. 11,14, 15, 16• B 11: Homer and Hesiod have attributed to the

gods everything that is a shame and reproach among men: stealing, adultery and deceiving each other.

• B14: But mortals consider that the gods are born, and that they have clothes and speech and bodies like their own.

• B15: But if cattle and horses or lions had hands, or were able to draw with their hands and produce (telein) the works that men do, horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, and cattle like cattle and they would make their bodies such as they each had themselves.

• B16: The Ethiopians say that their gods are snub-nosed and black, the Thracians that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.

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Page 24: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Xenophanes’ theology

• B 23: One god, greatest among gods and men, in no way similar to mortals either in body or shape.

• B24: All of him sees, all of him thinks, all of him hears.

• B 25/26: Always he remains in the same place, moving not at all; nor is it fitting for him to go to different places at different times, but without toil he shakes all things by the thought of his mind.

• Cf. Homer Iliad 1.530

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Zeus nods his head and ‘shakes great Olympos’

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Heraclitus as critic of popular religionHeraclitus not opposed to religion

per se– Certain conventional aspects of it– People fail to understand nature of

divine– Dionysos/Hades are one B15

• Role of thunderbolt/Zeus in cosmos B64– Homer calls Zeus Terpikeraunos

• B 32: The one thing which alone is wise wants to be and does not want to be called the name of Zeus. – goes beyond Xenophanes– But still invokes Zeus

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Heraclitus by Raphael

Page 26: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Heraclitus as critic of Homer, et al.Trenchant criticisms; competitive intellectual

environment– B 104: For what is their intelligence or

sense? They obey singers and use the mob as teachers, not knowing that many are bad, but few are good.

– B 42: Homer should be thrown out of the contests and beaten; likewise Archilochos.

– B 40: Learning many things does not teach intelligence; for it would have taught Hesiod, Pythagoras, and again Xenophanes and Hecataeus.

– B 56: Homer ‘wiser than all the Greeks’ defeated by riddle of the lice.

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Heraclitus by Raphael

Page 27: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets

• Book 2: 377c-383– Homer and Hesiod tell salacious stories about the gods:

• Castration of Ouranos by Kronos• Kronos’ cannibalism

– Questionable theology– Poets wrong teachings re gods’ actions and natures

• Cf. Xenophanes on Homer and Hesiod

• Stories affect listeners & shape their soul– Power of poetry one of its problems for Plato– Recurs again in Republic 10– Must be censored (even if true! Rep. 378b)

Page 28: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Saturn (=Kronos) Devouring his Children

RubensGoya

Page 29: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets

• Book 3: ethical qualms raised– Achilles vs Agamemnon: insubordinate, greedy– Heroes fear death - bad example for Guardians

Possible responses:• Allegories of Homeric poetry by Theagenes, et al. • Plato/Socrates assumes depiction=endorsement• Ignores Nestor’s attempt at reconciliation• No aesthetic differentiation• Cf. Democritus and Gorgias focus on emotive pleasure

of poetry: anticipate Aristotle’s Poetics

Page 30: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets

• Mimesis: 395b & ff• Poet/rhapsode’s performative art• Violates one-person/one job rule of Republic• Affects poet and listeners - emotional power

again• Fall under its spell• People become assimilated to characters they see, hear• No aesthetic differentiation again• But concedes mimesis of good men acceptable: 398b

• Plato contrasts with diegesis (=prose narrative)– No meter, harmonies, hyper-stylised language– implications for Rep. 10

Page 31: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 10: Critique of Mimetic Painting & Poetry

• Mimesis now rejected– Psychology, epistemology, education– Theory of Forms– Outlined in books 4-9 of Rep.

• Painting used as extensive analogy for mimetic poetry

• Both media subject to Plato’s– Ontology: theory of being– Epistemology: theory of knowledge– Psychology– Ethics & Justice: political implications

Page 32: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 10 (595-603): On Painting & Poetry

• 598-599: Ontology– Painting = mimesis phantasmatos– Imitation of an appearance; on 3rd remove from reality– Couch example and invocation of Forms

• 600-601: Epistemology– Painters and poets = ignorant, so, too, their public– Operate at 3 removes from truth & deceive public: 598c– User/maker/imitator argument

• 602-3: Psychology– Painting plays havoc with our senses– Seductive, erotic, magical language used– Mimetic art as courtesan (hetaira) to our senses– Epithumetikon vs Logistikon

Page 33: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

REPUBLIC 10 (603-607): On Epic Poetry & Tragedy

• Psychology – Meter, harmony, music beguiles us

– Seductive, erotic, magical language used (cf. painting)

– Grief: tragedy, etc. panders to ‘irrational’ and emotive elements in us

• Epithumetkon implied

– This part is opposite to ‘what is best in us’• Logistikon implied

• But NB the ‘noble lie’ behind the political structure of the Republic– What makes this better than poets’ ‘lies’?

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REPUBLIC 10 (605c-607b): ‘The Greatest Charge’

• It corrupts the best of us (cf. painting) • NB its emotive power

• pleasure in sympathising with sufferings of others• People assimilate Homeric tragic characters’ behaviour to own lives • the more you indulge these emotions, the more you encourage them• no ‘cleansing’ katharis here

Poets destabilise our psychological ‘order’ Justice = Psychological order Mimetic poets to be banned (!) but encomia to good men allowed (607a)

Page 36: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Specific Platonic Targets?

Hector and Andromache, Cf. Iliad 6

Priam and AchillesIliad 24

Page 37: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Specific Platonic Targets?

Priam and Achilles Iliad 24

Page 38: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

Specific Platonic Targets?

Sophocles’ Ajax; cf. amphora by Exekias, c. 530 BC

Page 39: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

NEXT TIME:SOME RESPONSES

• Plato ignores moments in Homer of heroic restraint of emotion; Achilles and Priam again

• Gorgias on cleverness of audience (B23)• recognition of artistic fiction• Cf. Dissoi Logoi on painting and tragedy

• Aeschines and Isocrates (orators, active c. 410-350) provide opposite evidence to Plato

• Democritus - other people’s suffering can make us count our blessings and help

Page 40: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

SOME RESPONSESAristotle: Plato’s greatest student and greatest critic:

Poetics defends art and poetry

Page 41: PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT. OUTLINE Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 –Mimesis first mooted: returns

SOME RESPONSESAristotle: Plato’s greatest student and greatest critic:

Poetics defends art and poetry

Aristotle Contemplating Homer (Rembrandt, c. 1650)