Psychoenergetics - William Tiller Ph.D, Scottsdale, AZ

Guest: William Tiller, Ph.D

Date: October 15, 2012

Length: 43:42

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LILOU: Hello Professor Tiller.

PROF. TILLER: Hello and good afternoon.

LILOU: I’m in Hawaii. Where are you right now?

PROF. TILLER: Now, I’m in Scottsdale, Arizona.

LILOU: I love Scottsdale, beautiful place.

PROF. TILLER: Yes. Well, we were in Maui also last week. We got back on the 19th.

LILOU: And what is the background behind you? Because you’re in front of a painting.

PROF. TILLER: We’re in a chapel. This is a spiritual centre and church and that’s the front desk piece of

the chapel.

LILOU: Beautiful. So we had a conversation a long time ago but it wasn’t through video, it was on the

phone and I’m very happy today this is on camera. This is wonderful.

PROF. TILLER: Yeah, well I’m glad, too.

LILOU: So I would love to speak about the psychoenergetics science because this is your thing and I

would love to learn more about it. Can you give us a bit of your background and how you came to this

kind of science and what it is and how can it help us to bridge what we feel inside but we haven’t yet

explained it scientifically on this end of normal regular people?

PROF. TILLER: Right, okay. I was in industry for 9 years at the Westinghouse Research Lab as an adviser

physicist and then moved to being a full professor with Stanford University in 1964 and retired from

Stanford University in 1998, my last PhD student was in 2000. Generally, my teaching was graduate

students with non-graduate students and I had research people. I probably graduated 50 PhD

students in that time period that I was there. So I’m the card caring, orthodox scientist and when I was

on my first tour of duty on Sabbatical, I, although I started out as a garden variety professor, in the

end it brought me in, turned very will and I was asked to take over as department chair which I did

until I decided to give that up in 1970. The going on sabbatical, I picked up this little book called

Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain by Ostrander and Schroeder. And I knew a great deal that

area because my wife and I became daily meditators in 1964. We had lots of experiences with psychic

phenomenon in people even though I was a department chair, I was still interested. As I read this

book on the plane to sabbatical or our sabbatical in Oxford, the thought kept coming in to my mind,

how might the universe be structured to allow this crazy seeming kind of stuff to naturally coexist

with the orthodox science that I was doing everyday with my graduate students? When I got to

Oxford, I started to write a book, I went there to write on my orthodox area which was science of

crystallization. I kept having the same question come in to my mind. It was very distracting and after

about 3 weeks, I decided I’m not gonna do this book, I’m gonna find out if I can how the universe

might be constructed to allow this stuff to exist. And so my wife and I with our daily meditation which

was usually about an hour long, we would go in to meditation, I would hold the brick of the question,

how might this universe be structured to allow this stuff to occur. And by the end of the day, end of

the hour, usually I have some insight and she would have some insight and we talk a bit because her

insight although she was not in any way scientific was always very fruitful. Females are better in it,

psychic stuff than males. Then I’d work all day upstairs in the house we had trying to decide what

experimental data was this insight violating? And by the end of the day, I would have another set of

questions. So the next day would go in to meditation, I’d hold the primary intention or question and

then I would hold these other questions just like a brick, like a supplicant and asking the universe for

help and understanding. This went on everyday for 6 months, everyday, by the end of the 6 months, I

had a model that allowed the 2 to naturally coexist but one of the key issues of enlightenment that

came was you must get outside of distance time to understand how these 2 things can naturally

coexist. Well by that time, I was really impressed with how important this area of work and kind.

That’s more important than I thought my normal science was at Stanford. And so I thought who might

I get to commit to working on this seriously working on it? And I finally decided I couldn’t figure out

who could do it and then it had to be me. Well, stuff I needed my day job to feed my family. So I

decided to give up being department chair to have time. I decided to give up my government

committees to have time. I decided to give up my professional committees to have time. And with

that block of time, I divided it into 3 parts, continued experiential development of self. Second third

was to keep looking at the universe to see what the structure look like and ultimately mathematically

what it might look like. And then the third was to do experiments to keep the theory honest. And so I

developed the inside of the university life of conditional science and outside the university life of

psychoenergetic science. So that was in1970 and I have been doing that ever since. The university was

not happy with it but I was a 10-year professor fortunately and therefore so long as I did my day job

well, I was still allowed to be a full professor with tenure. So that was good but it’s of only life in the

sense because there’s a natural separation when you are walking a different path than the pack. Now

I walked a path of orthodox science quite well in my daily work but I had this other and I would have

phone calls from people all around the world who thought they were going crazy or whose family

thought they were going crazy and I would describe to them the research work that was being done to

understand what they were going through, their internal transformation. And then half an hour later,

I had to switch from that mode of reality to happy prepared for my lecture. So it was a stretch but it

was an interesting adventure and I wouldn’t have changed a thing.

LILOU: And so you, how have you evolved since then? Because really this intention prove now to

change as you say in your site and as you say in your lecture our physical reality. So how –

PROF. TILLER: Yes, okay, what I did first, I didn’t get in to the serious intention, although the first book

I wrote was which came out in 1997, it was called Science and Human Transformation: Subtle Energies,

Intentionality, and Consciousness. So I continued that gathering data in that area for about 20 years,

basically 20 years until I received some funding, serious funding from a philanthropist who is dead

now. So I was able to put together a team and the work that’s best known is the intention work. There

have been since the 1600’s, the assumption of Descartes that no human qualities of consciousness,

intention, emotion, mind, or spirit can significantly influence a well-designed target experiment in

physical reality. Now at that time, that was a very useful assumption because it was only a century

away from a having a theocratic society and logos switch to science, distance, time, science in the

after Copernicus and Galileo and Newton, but there’s always a long hangover from one paradigm to

another and so he made this assumption in order that science, physics, natural phenomena could be

clearly separated from religion. So it was a useful assumption that time but no one ever studied the

assumption after that except that it was stuck with orthodox science and orthodox medicine. So

unconsciously this exists in these folks and so I decided I would use this money to seriously test this

assumption of Descartes. So I designed with all of the procedures I used from my normal Stanford

work for target experiments. And the first one was to increase the ph of water, the alkaline-acidic

balance of water by one full ph in it. That’s a factor of 10 of hydrogen ion concentration, it’s a

reduction in hydrogen ion concentration by a factor 10 and that’s very large. In human body, if you’re

doing this with the blood, if you increase the ph by half a ph unit or reduce it by half a ph unit, you’re

dead on both ends. And we’re seeing this kind of thing with the CO2 concentration growing in the

atmosphere that that gets into the oceans and that is killing the corals and so it’s a big deal of 1 ph

unit. For biological systems, a tenth of the ph unit is a death knell for many of them. So it’s

important. Anyway, the second experiment was take the same water and decrease the ph by one full

ph again with no chemical additions. The third experiment, I should say that we found a way to

imprint an intention into simple electrical device from deep meditative state and when we would do

that, not only do we change the physical properties of things, we change the physical reality of space.

The space becomes conditioned in a very special way like the great cathedrals of Europe and more

than that. So the third thing was to condition the space and the experiment was to take a specific

liver enzyme, alkaline phosphatase and the intention was to significantly increase the chemical

activity. That’s a little more than chemical concentration but it’s something like that. The chemical

activity by a 30-minute exposure to the conditioned space. We measured the 2 chemical activity,

before the experiment we measured it after 30 minute exposure. So that was a third experiment.

Fourth experiment was take a living system and this was fruit fly larva and the intention here was to

increase the energy storage molecule relative to its chemical precursor. That’s atp to adp, that is to

increase from 2 phosphorus atoms in the molecule to 3 phosphorus atoms in the molecule. And that

would make the fruit fly larva more physically fit and therefore shorten the larval development time

to the adult fly stage. That was our assumption. Okay, so that was the 4 experiments. All the

experiments were robustly successful and the 2 biological ones, they are successful to the point of a

p value better than .001, that is the less than one chance in a thousand that this could have occurred

by a random chance. Those were the 4 target experiment that were so successful and that

unequivocally proved that the basic assumption of Descartes no longer holds in today’s world.

However, how to get the orthodox science community or medical community to look at the

experimental data is basically the same way it was with Galileo back in his time. The theocrats were

not willing to look at his through his telescope at his experimental data, same thing today. It’s

unfortunate, it’ll happen. It will change because the data is mounting more and more and more. The

general public love it because they see hope that isn’t there in orthodox science or orthodox

medicine which are both very materialistic.

LILOU: And we feel it as non-scientific people, we feel it in our heart, we know it.

PROF. TILLER: Absolutely.

LILOU: And we cannot prove it and there is the separation between the people can feel there is so

much and that we’re all united, we’re all linked through this huge field of consciousness.

PROF. TILLER: And it turns out that the more space is conditioned, the more these experiments go,

the greater is the connectivity. We found that there is another level of physical reality. It’s in the

coarsest level of the physical vacuum. Physical vacuum is where all of this stuff is, through all of the

higher qualities of humans are. Quantum mechanics for example is a distance, time, second order

differential equation, which means it can deal with the meat of humans but it can’t deal with their

special qualities, emotions, mind, spirit. We need to expand the reference frame to use it to study

nature and the orthodox community, they’ve known about this category of phenomena, psychic

phenomena for one to two centuries, but they, since it doesn’t satisfy, their internal self consistency

requirements of orthodox science, they either have to change their attitudes and their way of doing

experiments or they have to sweep it under the rock. Unfortunately they’ve chosen to sweep it

under the rock. And that’s been going on for a long time.

LILOU: Because the way it’s set up, from my understanding, it’s impossible to move forward in the

science, the science can evolve too but it’s not possible through its current methodology. So how do

you see all of this opening up? It’s just a matter of non-verbal –

They have to, they’re stuck, they’re terribly stuck and they’re doing good job with materialistic

science but as far as humans are concerned, they are not doing anything and with what is there, they

are not going to be able to do anything. They have to go to another level of reality, they have to get

out of the box and they’re kind of afraid, I think, to get out of the box. It changes everything.

Universities are the same. Universities won’t allow this stuff to be taught, to get a PhD degree in this.

Now, it’s understandable there are jobs for such people, so it will be awhile before we have

converted and our mind work is starting to move in that direction is to try to show that you can have a

business and make profit and create new things using these procedures but in general, people have

to build themselves and the people have, they pay for all the research that goes on in universities.

Therefore, they eventually can demand what kind of material they want to be taught and when that

happens, then governments and universities will begin to open that door. In the meantime, I’m

trying to open that door with doing hard research that expands consciousness, expands shows the

data. We have learned also how to broadcast this, and broadcast intention over 6,000 miles. We’ve

done experiments for the most recent ones to a particular room at a particular building on a

particular corner of Berlin, Germany. They have the same kind of equipment that we had there, but

we imprinted the device, they had a non-imprinted the device and we broadcast using a subtle

energy from Payson, Arizona, it’s up in the mountains, about 80 miles from here and it was

remarkably successful. So that means now that we can broadcast and change the intention. We did an

experiment to heal hundreds of people with depression and anxiety, separated by thousands of

square miles just by their name and address being continuously scrolled through a computer in the

room where there was an intention host device. The control system had everything in the same

except it wasn’t an intention imprinted device, nothing happened.

LILOU: So instead of being human beings, thinking that same thought and holding that same

intention, you’re saying you’re able to reproduce it through those computers that are sending those

–

PROF. TILLER: Yes. If people, you have to understand, people have to hold the same intention but

they have to be coherent. Most people are not very coherent and they may think they’re holding the

intention, okay.

LILOU: Hard coherence.

PROF. TILLER: It’s a hard connection, yes, but can you do it reproduceably in a quantitative way

everyday? That’s the issue. That’s why I chose to use a simple electronic device. The device in which I

could imprint the intention and I found the very first time I did that, I took the device, which I call an

intention host device that have been imprinted and I separated it by about a hundred meters from an

unimprinted device, identical, physically identical but unimprinted and turned them both off

electrically. So there should be no change because there’s no electrical information but within 3-5

days, the unimprinted device picked up the imprint which says that there’s another level of nature

that we access with our device and that can broadcast, it seems to be unlimited, but I don’t know that,

I only know 6,000 miles is as far as I’ve tried to go. But my intuition is that we can broadcast

simultaneously to thousands of people, millions of people anywhere in the world. At the moment,

we’re working with hundreds. One of the things that we are setting in motion is to broadcast to

children diagnosed as autistic in a different intention to their parents. The children appeared to have

this difficulty because their advance souls who have a need for greater infrastructure in their bio

bodysuits. Bio body suit is what we’re wearing so this is like a diving bell needs instrumentation so

you can experience the environment. These souls need something more advanced than that because

I think they’re forerunners of what is coming for all of us, that is we’ve sort of finished the not quite

finished, but we’re wrapping up the epoch that we’re in and I think the Higgs-Boson experiment sort

of wraps up that conventional reality which is everything goes forward in the laws of light. Now we go

to the vacuum and everything goes faster than light and so we do not have conventional instruments

to access that information. We have some when we’re working on others so that we can access those

levels of physical vacuum. So I think the call of the latter understanding that we worked on for 400

years on the lowest run of the ladder and built it very well but now we need to stretch a little further

and that’s what our work is doing, psychoenergetic science works on the second run of ladder and so

we’re hanging on by our fingertips, we’re making some progress and it will change our reality.

LILOU: I was interviewing somebody recently, few months ago that works very closely on autistic kids

and he was saying that it’s very easy for them to go out of their body and they experience a lot more

things.

PROF. TILLER: It’s hard for them to get back into their body.

LILOU: Yup.

PROF. TILLER: That’s the problem. And so that’s what my intention statement will be working on.

LILOU: What can we expect in the future to how human beings, what we’re developing and what we

can really start to work on to be able, to be in these fast time and these changes –

PROF. TILLER: Let me tell you what my fundamental working hypothesis is. I think we’re all spirits

having a physical experience as we ride the river of life together. Our spiritual parents dress us in

these bio body suits and put us in this playpen which we call a universe in order to grow in coherence,

in order to develop our gifts of intentionality and in order to become what we’re intended to become

which is co-creators with our spiritual parents. When I say co-creators, I mean big time stuff, that’s

the way down the road. We are just babes crawling across the floor of the universe at the moment

and we have a long way to grow, a long, long way to grow. And the general public is starting to really

work on it and that’s wonderful and because they are, the orthodox community will change with the

data, data that we provide, eventually. Eventually they will not be able to withstand the general

public. So we are, let me give you a couple of examples. Take a 60-watt light bulb, it gives a bit of

light, not a lot of light. And the reason it doesn’t give a lot of light is because the photons that come

out of the light bulb interfere with each other. They get destructions called destructive interference.

However, if you could influence those photons so they became coherent with each other so that they

come out riding on each other’s back then the energy density at the surface of the light bulb will be

close to a hundred times the surface of the sun. We are like that light bulb, quite incoherent, mostly

asleep but we can be that coherent source and that’s part of where we’re going. Let me give another

example. A great physicist, Wheeler, John Wheeler, passed on now, astrophysicist, really great. He

calculated that for quantum mechanics and relativity theory to be internally self-consistent, the

vacuum, the physical vacuum had to contain an energy density of something like 10 to the power 94

grams equivalent of electromagnetic energy per cubic centimetre. Well, that’s a big number, what

does it mean? From astronomers, we can get an average density of electromagnetic matter in the

cosmos. Cosmos is the sphere of about 15 billion light years radius, so you multiply the average

energy density, mass density of electromagnetic energy times that volume, and you get a number,

very big number. Now, let’s take the Wheeler calculation. We take that number and we multiply it by

the volume, physical volume of a single hydrogen atom, that’s like 1 over 1 followed by 22 zero’s.

when you multiply those 2 together, you get another number and that number is a trillion times the

other number. That is a trillion times more latent energy than all of the electromagnetic mass and all

the starts and all of the planets and all of the cosmic dust in our entire cosmos. That is our future.

That in fact is the coarsest level, that is what we are addressing, we are able to meaningfully touch

that aspect of physical reality where things are certain to go faster in light. That’s our future. That’s

how we’re really gonna go to the stars. That’s how we’re really going to help us become and it is by

learning to meditate or learn chi gong. These are practices, these are practices that you do from deep

within. The more you do, the more you become. And the more you become, everything changes and

everything gets connected. For example, let’s take a placebo effect in medicine. 30 years ago, it was

practically 0, 85%. In the last 30 years, it’s become something like 95%. How can that be if that

placebo is inert? Well, it turns out when you look at the connectivity that is occurring because of

these subtle energies, then in particular what I call a coupler, which lets us cause slower than light

matter to interact with faster than light matter. When that kind of thing occurs, then it turns out you

can’t treat a placebo as inert because the mathematics shows you that a placebo, its functionability,

its effect is multiplied by the doctor, the doctor’s intention is multiplied by the treatment, it’s

multiplied by the patients. So that’s why the placebo is getting close to the treatment result. It’s

because, it’s a vector sum that is required. It can’t be treated as the mathematical scale. So this is

gonna change your controlled, double blind controls, forget it, it’s not gonna happen in the future

because we are getting more connected, everything is getting connected because this coupler is not

just growing in our experiments, it’s growing in the cosmos. It’s what the placebo is showing us. That

coupler is growing in magnitude and we’re on our way to some other great adventure.

LILOU: I love the word adventure because it also means stepping in this unknown and we know that

once we step in this unknown, really not knowing, amazing things happen. How do you put that

together in scientific terms? What is your research showing?

PROF. TILLER: The research is showing that all the action is not going in distance-time and orthodox

science is distance-time only. As I said, the second order of differential is the best quantum

mechanics, present day quantum mechanics can do. I mean, it’s not complete, relativity theory is not

completed. Einstein’s limitation of the velocity of light is shown, you can begin to show that that’s

not the end once you have another level of physical reality, I call it the fine physical reality versus the

coarse physical reality, that means as you increase the energy up towards, going towards the velocity

of light, you don’t have to go all the way to the velocity of light, it’ll just tunnel through into the

faster than light domain which also responds to relativity theory. And if relativity theory fits, faster

than light and slower than light which is trouble at the light area and if you have only the one domain,

well you would just keep trying to go to the velocity of light which takes more energy, takes an

infinite amount of energy so it’s never gonna happen. That’s why Einstein said what he said that you

can’t go faster than light. But as soon as you show that nature has another level or at least one other

level of reality and all I’m showing is the second run of the ladder but that’s enough, you can tunnel

through. So that means that if physics community would open their mind to the possibilities and look

at some of the data that exist, they can explain dark matter and dark energy, they can explain, they’ll

be able to explain why there’s acceleration at the edge of the universe rather than deceleration

which is what is predicted by our normal physical reality. They say they don’t understand what dark

matter is but all I have to do is to really go and look at the Decroly work of the 1920’s and the Dirac of

the 1920’s, both who won nobel prizes but they, he talked about in the negative energies, they

couldn’t understand what a negative means. But if they think a little more, they’ll find that they can,

in fact I’ve written about this. I should mention on my website, tiller.org, there at the moment 26

free white papers, one of which deals with this Dirac work and shows how to understand, begin to

understand negative energies. But again, it’s this stuckness, you know. They’re terribly committed to

it, they will change eventually but it can be either slower or fast. It’ll be faster if the general public

puts a pressure on them.

LILOU: You were featured in What the Bleep that a lot of us have seen. Have you done a lot of other

documentaries?

PROF. TILLER: I have done 2 DVD’s there on my website, they’re accessible, on terms of

psychoenergetic science. One is a 7 hour DVD, which was an entire weekend where I was the only

speaker and I talked about the early works. It’s available for sale and there’s paypals for people can

purchase it if they wish. There are 4 books now in that area, in the 27 free white papers. By next

week, there’ll be 28.

LILOU: What is that one about?

PROF. TILLER: That one is this broadcast to Germany, the 28th. The 27th is towards the union of logos

and mythos, both were rejected by orthodox science journals. They don’t get it, they don’t wanna get

it, so I put them up on my website. So they’re free for anybody to access and print out for themselves

or their friends or whatever. So this all going forward and we’re gathering more data everyday. We

don’t have funds but fortunately the 2 people that work with me, they’re long time [??] yoga

practitioners there at the moment and they’re willing to work for nothing. So there’s been challenges

but we’re making progress, real progress.

LILOU: Since, you know, with the internet, this is something beautiful and I love doing here on my

show, too, is how can we support you because there are some people, this reaches people all around

the world Bill, there must be some, you know, who knows, the synchronicity –

PROF. TILLER: I have on my website a, I think a button or something which can take donations and if

the donations are large enough then I can, I have to be in contact with the person, I can tell them how

to write the check so that I can send it to the Holos Institute of Health and I have an account there so

if they direct to my psychoenergetic science research, than normal write them back and they can take

a tax right off of it, but certainly people can be part of this research.

LILOU: And also I guess helping to share your white papers also and the research that you have done,

all of that also contributes.

PROF. TILLER: Yes, it does contribute. I have published a lot of work in the Journal of Alternative and

Complementary Medicine. They have been more open, the alternative medicine because their work

touches these new levels of reality. So I’m speaking, it’s difficult for some of the folks to understand

this because they’re tied strongly to the orthodox, but still many do, they’re willing to suffer a little

confusion.

LILOU: I think Dr. Larry Dolce also publishes in there.

PROF. TILLER: Yes. Yes, but that would be good if Larry was not person that’s reading the, if Larry was

the person that was reading the papers that are sent, but the person he has reading those papers is

one who, he has his own ax to grind let’s put it that way.

LILOU: But I guess you’re connected with Larry Dolce too right?

PROF. TILLER: Yeah, Larry and I do once in a while communicate. We haven’t talked in a long time but

we’re doing work now. I’m starting a program on information medicine which is psychoenergetic

science applied to medicine and working with the Buddha relics and doing experiments on the

Buddha relics to show that they’re very much like an intention host device and they’re left behind by

these Buddhist masters and they have consciousness and we can demonstrate that experimentally.

So it really answers, it is a answer to the question, is their consciousness continuing after physical

death? The answer is yes.

LILOU: It’s a beautiful book. I could totally see that as a book in itself.

PROF. TILLER: Yes, it will be, eventually. We’re doing more work.

LILOU: Beautiful. Well thank you so much Professor for this moment.

PROF. TILLER: Well, it was fun.

LILOU: And I’m glad we’re able to do this. Thanks to your friend, Bill.

PROF. TILLER: Yes, yes. I’m glad to see you. When do you go back from your vacation?

LILOU: I’m not on vacation, I’m here to interview several people here on Maui and Kauai and then I’m

going to the Quantum Medicine Congress in Honolulu to interview Dr. Emoto and it will be, it’s a

whole trip.

PROF. TILLER: Well, it is. Quantum is a real thing but quantum mechanics cannot deal with the real

stuff of humans. Not yet, anyway.

LILOU: Thank you so much.

PROF. TILLER: My pleasure. Good. Be well.

LILOU: You too.

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