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Rudolf Steiner and the Soulless Ones Prolix · Feb 12, 2021 · 6

ProlixWell-Known Member Trusted Member

Feb 12, 2021 #1

Dreamtime’s post on soulless humans reminded me of RudolfSteiner’s comments on this subject. I thought his perspective might bea useful starting point for this thread. Steiner’s value as a resource is,of course, highly subjective, by nature of his intangible “research”. Hisinsights were announced through clairvoyance, but his formativeinfluences spanned a number of esoteric disciplines. We know he heldthe Rosicrucian movement in high esteem, and some suggest itformed his earliest initiation. He parted with theosophy after itdiverged from his perspective (broadly, identifying itself with Easterntraditions rather than his tendency toward esoteric Christianity, alongwith their identifying Krishnamurti as the great world teacher,). Hewas also linked with forms of freemasonry (debate continues as towhether he was ever formally one of their number), and he appearedto observe certain strictures on what might or might not be releasedto the public in terms of occult knowledge. For example, he referredto this in respect of the eighth sphere (an area Dark Journalistgives significant time to when discussing Steiner, coming as it doesinto the realm of transhumanist impulses). On the other hand, it’sspeculated that Steiner’s early death was the result of poisoning,on account of his revealing too much guarded wisdom.

Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to source two of the three full lecturesfor his quotes online. A piece on the soulmindspirit blog makes agood starting point for all three, however, and references bothSteiner’s comments on the subject and also Mouravieff’s Gnosis (asdiscussed by Dreamtime). I hadn’t come across Mouravieff before, butI was interested to note his characterisation of pre-Adamicsharvesting energy from Adamics, not dissimilar to traditional GnosticArchons or Castenada’s flyers.

It’s probably useful to preface with a distinction between Steiner’sterms, as he is talking less about “soulless” than “spiritless” beings,those lacking “the highest I”. As S Easton interprets him (per

Waldorf Watch, an outspoken critic of all things anthroposophical,but a solid resource for terms and definitions):

As Walford Watch puts it “the spirit is higher, and remains one’sessence through all incarnations”.

Steiner’s comments regarding a first grader with “something reallyvery wrong inside” (Faculty Meetings With Rudolf Steiner Vol. 2, 3 July1923) have met with some degree of face-value outrage, of the “Howcould he say such a thing about a little girl?” variety. Such a responseisn’t wholly untypical, as various of his clairvoyant insights have, overthe years, been called out as either absurd (some of his takes on thescientific world are out there, even by non-mainstream standards, notthat I necessarily agree with this list and certainly not its tone) oroffensive (certain perspectives on race, in particular):

Between the [physical] body and the spirit is the soul, which may beregarded as the mediator or bridge between them, and Steiner speaks ofhow it gathers treasures from the earthly experience to bestow on thespirit. The soul is not immortal, as the spirit is; after death it is graduallydissolved into the 'soul world.'

Such cases are increasing in which children are born with a human form,but are not really human beings in relation to their highest I; instead, theyare filled with beings that do not belong to the human class. Quite anumber of people have been born since the nineties without an I, that is,they are not reincarnated, but are human forms filled with a sort of naturaldemon. There are quite a large number of older people going around whoare actually not human beings, but are only natural; they are humanbeings only in regard to their form.

Asked how this could occur, Steiner mooted the possibility of “cosmicerror” (whether he means by that God, whom he ironically didn’t reallytalk about very much, is unclear). He discussed circumstances in whicha planned incarnation doesn’t go ahead, whereby “other beings thatare not quite suited step in”. He loses me a little with his reference tomemory of sentences (might this be a Voight-Kampff test for spiritlessentities? Ask them to memorise a sentence?):

He then suggests:

This still begs the question of how one identifies such a person,beyond intuition. I suspect most of us tend to associate

This is something that is now quite common, that human beings goaround without an I; they are actually not human beings, but have only ahuman form. They are beings like nature spirits, which we do not recognizeas such because they go around in a human form. They are also quitedifferent from human beings in regard to everything spiritual. They can, forexample, never remember such things as sentences; they have a memoryonly for words, not for sentences.

It is also possible that something like an automaton could occur. The entirehuman organism exists, and it might be possible to automate the brainand develop a kind of pseudomorality.

I do not like to talk about such things since we have often been attackedeven without them. Imagine what people would say if they heard that wesay there are people who are not human beings. Nevertheless, these arefacts.

soulless/spiritless types with the “psychopath” ( Montauk.netevidently does, and soulmindspirit cites several pertinent referencesto the disinclination of soldiers on the battlefield to open fire on theenemy). Some may even be those with no or limited capacity for innerreflection, regardless of whether that lends itself to “good” or “bad”behaviour. Montalk.net’s piece speculates on various ways in whichpeople end up spiritless, but there’s also the possibility that theappearance of spiritlessness could simply mean the spirit/I has beensuppressed, rather than necessarily vacating or never being there atall.

Steiner also emphasised this unnatural incarnatory process as intrinsicto the modern era, the current Ahrimanic (essentially materialist - hissculpture of Ahriman pictured above) age (The Book of Revelation andthe Work of the Priest, Lecture 13, 17 September 1924):

…in our time certain supernumerary people are appearing who have no ‘I’and are therefore not human beings in the full sense of the word. This is a

Further still, he delves into the specifics of where the human partgoes missing. Some of this is curious, notably his assertion that we’reall “tagging along” until about the age of twenty, when the spirit/Itakes root.

terrible truth. They go about, but are not incarnated ‘I’s; they take theirplace in physical heredity, receive an ether body and an astral body and ina sense become equipped inwardly with an Ahrimanic consciousness. Theyappear to be human if you do not look too closely, yet they are not humanbeings in the full sense of the word.

This is a terrible truth and it is a fact. The apocalyptist is pointing directlyat human beings themselves when he speaks about the plague of locustsin the age of the fifth trumpet. Once again we can recognise theapocalyptist by the manner of his vision. In their astral body such peopleappear just as the apocalyptist describes them: like etheric locusts withhuman faces…

These are not necessarily always evil souls; they may merely be souls thatdevelop as far as the soul realm but lack an ‘I’. One is sure to notice if onecomes across such a person... Above all, people who have healthy soulssuffer as a consequence of those who go about as human locusts. So thequestion can arise, and indeed must arise, as to how one should behavetowards such people.

This can be quite a difficult task, for such people often have deep feelings;they can have very deep feelings and yet one notices that there is noactual individuality in them. Of course the fact that there is noindividuality in them must be carefully concealed from them for otherwisethey would go mad. Despite having to conceal this from them one mustensure that such souls — for soul they are, even if not spirit — can makecontact with other human beings and can develop in their wake, so thatthey can, as it were, tag along with the others. Such human beings fairly

On another occasion, Steiner emphasises that the “very many people…being born who do not follow the regular course of reincarnation” is “apeculiar and deeply significant phenomenon” ( The New Spiritualityand the Christ Experience in the Twentieth Century, Lecture Two,October 1920). (When Steiner talks below about the three membersof human nature, he’s referring to the nerve-sense system, therhythmic system and the metabolic-limb system. These respectively, interms of the soul, correspond to imagination, feeling and desiring,and in terms of spirit, to pure thinking, pure feeling and pure willing.So in terms of utilising the metabolic system, these beings arecontrolling the aspects of desire and will. Although, he says “they alsowork in the trunk, in the rhythmic system and in the sensory-nervoussystem"):

accurately demonstrate the nature and being of man up to the twentiethyear, for it is not until the twentieth year that the mind soul or intellectualsoul is born, which is what provides the possibility for the `I’ to live on theearth.

What confronts us as a human being in human form does not always haveto be as it outwardly appears. The outer appearance can, in fact, be justappearance. It is possible for us to confront human beings in human formwho only appear to be human beings of the kind that are subject torepeated lives on earth. In reality these are human bodies with a physical,etheric, and astral body – but there are other beings incarnated here,beings who use these people in order to work through them. There are infact a large number of people, for example in the West, who are not simplyreincarnated human beings, but are the bearers of beings who have takenan extremely premature path of development and who should only appearin the form of humanity at a later stage of their evolution. Now, thesebeings do not make use of the whole human organism but use chiefly themetabolic system of these Western human beings. Of the three membersof the human nature, they use the metabolic system and do so in such a

Curiously, Steiner then goes on to specify that many of those in secretsocieties are of this nature, via “beings who… attract particularfollowers or radiate like an epidemic their own exceptional qualitiesonto other human beings”:

Steiner then talks about three kinds of incarnating beings(contradictorily – it may be the translation – he first says these threekinds of being incarnate through the metabolic system, but thendistinguishes the systems through which each incarnates). Those “thathave a particular attraction to… the elemental forces of the earth…”manifesting in terms of inclinations to colonise and establish trade.Those (incarnating through the rhythmic system) intent on“supressing consciousness of self” so producing “in other peoplearound them, amongst whom something like this spreads like anepidemic, a certain desire not to call themselves to account concerning

way that, through these human beings, they work into the physical world.For one who can observe life with a certain accuracy, people of this kindeven show outwardly that this is how it is with them.

Thus, for example, a large number of those individuals who belong toAnglo-Saxon secret societies and who have great influence – we havespoken on a number of occasions in past years on the role of these secretsocieties – are actually the bearers of premature existences of this kindwhich, through the metabolic system of certain people, work into the worldand seek out a field of action through human bodies and do not live innormal regular incarnations. The leading personalities of certain sects areof this nature, and the overwhelming majority of a very widespread sectthat has a great following in the West is made up of individuals of thiskind. In this way a completely different spirituality is working into present-day human beings and it will be an essential task to be able to take up astand toward life from this point of view.

CitezenshipWell-Known Member Patron Trusted Member

Feb 12, 2021 #2

the real motives behind their actions” (Seiner cites a publication byOxford professors as evidence of such “superficial, untruthful”influences). And those (incarnating through the sensory-nervoussystem) striving “to cause the individual abilities in the human being tobe forgotten… and to turn human beings more or less into astereotyped replica of their nation… to prevent the human being fromcoming to individual spirituality”.

He considers all three forces are encouraged by the West’s“specifically economic way of thinking” removing everything else, “toroot out the spiritual life, to chip away the political life and to absorbeverything into the life of economics”. He goes on to distinguish thisfrom their manifestation in the East, where they manifest not inphysical bodies but as “beings that appear to people and inspire themduring sleep at night”.

I can't help putting a little spin on the text of dreamtimes post,

Pre adamic or pre academic,

That is what the automatic part of my being shouts at me! I guess I should elaborate on that a little,

Reply

Deleted member 65, Collapseinrealtime, enthusiast and 2 others

CollapseinrealtimeWell-Known Member Patron Trusted Member

Feb 13, 2021 #3

I think that the spiritual malady is not an issue of birth orcircumstance as such but one of programming, generationalprogramming, for we are to my eyes digital computer's viewing lifethrough an analogue lense, like all computers it needs a program tooperate and it's operating efficiency is directly related to the qualityof the program and the values(morals) within it.

I can only put this into context by injecting my personal perspectiveand it is,

Having my own programming interrupted quite early on the programdidn't quite take hold in the way it does with the NPC's and allows meto see the effects of "the program" on the programmed, allows me toquestion the validity of blindly obeying those who tried to instal theprogramme and see when others are following it.

I think Steiner was also trying to get this point across however I donot share his religious leanings mostly because it is those religionswho are the creators of said programmes.

Last edited: Feb 12, 2021

It is always interesting to read reviews on Steiner's work, especiallyconsidering I've only recently been exposed to his work within this

last year. It appears that those that have the biggest reservationsabout some of his seemingly sweeping statements are those thatrequire some level of physical evidence coupled with an extendedbibliography to back up his claims. In the world of esoteric studies,the proof tends to be in the experience of personal practice. I havefound in my studies of Steiner's work that his ethereal, otherworldlysuggestions are more of a nudge to the student rather than an allencompassing system of being that must be religiously upheld.

It is easy to dismiss him as a hack scientist since his proofs lie entirelyin his personal, clairvoyant experiences rather than in verifiable,repeatable experiments conducted in Frankenstein's laboratory. Hemight not be the best reference for flat earth proofs, however, hisinsights and experience might inform the student in how topersonally, clairvoyantly view the universe from the perspective of theskryer, leading the student to better understand the nature of hisuniverse that he is unable to physically explore.

It appears that Steiner was indeed high level bloodline elite, thoughhis biographies tend to downplay this likelihood. In my personalexperience, I have found Steiner's techniques in learning clairvoyanceto be highly informing and helpful, though I realize that it is apersonal, internal science that cannot be verified with laboratoryinstruments.

His writings to me are conceptual mental drawings designed to givethe student some level of guidance in an otherwise esoteric world ofdarkness, where disinformation and trickery saturate this field ofresearch. I do not sense a spirit of trickery in his work, especiallyconsidering the amount of detailed content describing a world fewhave ventured to explore and even fewer have dared to write about.That being said, his work was not meant to be analyzed under aphysical microscope. It was intended to give the student withclairvoyant leanings a push into a more systemized approach to

Reply

Kentucky, Ilmarinen, Deleted member 65 and 3 others

Matrix TravellerNew member

Feb 15, 2021 #4

gathering intel through access to worlds unseen, places like The Hallof Records (Akasha).

Once one can view his contributions in this light, his conclusionsdrawn as a result of his own occult travels lend a peek behind the veil.When you compare his writings to some of Crowley's or Waite's orRegardie's work, Steiner seems much more deeply rooted inattempting to enlighten the student rather than to fool him.

The suggestion that certain humans are not entirely human tends toring true, especially when considering the level of detachmentrequired to carry out the population purges carried out by TheHidden Hand without care or concern. Steiner was given relatively freereign to write about whatever he wished, a loophole he seemed tohave taken full advantage of, much to the chagrin of the powerstructure, including the Third Reich, which played a major role in theattempted eradication of his works available in Germany. That in itselfmakes his work most noteworthy, and red meat to a researcher likeme, who revels in finding verboten material otherwise reserved fordestruction.

M

Magnumopus said:

View attachment 6675

Dreamtime’s post on soulless humans reminded me of RudolfSteiner’s comments on this subject. I thought his perspective might be auseful starting point for this thread. Steiner’s value as a resource is, ofcourse, highly subjective, by nature of his intangible “research”. Hisinsights were announced through clairvoyance, but his formativeinfluences spanned a number of esoteric disciplines. We know he heldthe Rosicrucian movement in high esteem, and some suggest itformed his earliest initiation. He parted with theosophy after it divergedfrom his perspective (broadly, identifying itself with Eastern traditionsrather than his tendency toward esoteric Christianity, along with theiridentifying Krishnamurti as the great world teacher,). He was also

linked with forms of freemasonry (debate continues as to whether hewas ever formally one of their number), and he appeared to observecertain strictures on what might or might not be released to the public interms of occult knowledge. For example, he referred to this in respect of

the eighth sphere (an area Dark Journalist gives significant time towhen discussing Steiner, coming as it does into the realm oftranshumanist impulses). On the other hand, it’s speculated that Steiner’searly death was the result of poisoning, on account of his revealingtoo much guarded wisdom.

Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to source two of the three full lecturesfor his quotes online. A piece on the soulmindspirit blog makes agood starting point for all three, however, and references both Steiner’scomments on the subject and also Mouravieff’s Gnosis (as discussed byDreamtime). I hadn’t come across Mouravieff before, but I was interestedto note his characterisation of pre-Adamics harvesting energy fromAdamics, not dissimilar to traditional Gnostic Archons or Castenada’s

flyers.

It’s probably useful to preface with a distinction between Steiner’s terms,as he is talking less about “soulless” than “spiritless” beings, those lacking“the highest I”. As S Easton interprets him (per Waldorf Watch, anoutspoken critic of all things anthroposophical, but a solid resource forterms and definitions):

As Walford Watch puts it “the spirit is higher, and remains one’s essencethrough all incarnations”.

Steiner’s comments regarding a first grader with “something really verywrong inside” (Faculty Meetings With Rudolf Steiner Vol. 2, 3 July 1923)have met with some degree of face-value outrage, of the “How could hesay such a thing about a little girl?” variety. Such a response isn’t whollyuntypical, as various of his clairvoyant insights have, over the years, beencalled out as either absurd (some of his takes on the scientific world areout there, even by non-mainstream standards, not that I necessarilyagree with this list and certainly not its tone) or offensive (certainperspectives on race, in particular):

Asked how this could occur, Steiner mooted the possibility of “cosmicerror” (whether he means by that God, whom he ironically didn’t reallytalk about very much, is unclear). He discussed circumstances in which aplanned incarnation doesn’t go ahead, whereby “other beings that arenot quite suited step in”. He loses me a little with his reference to memoryof sentences (might this be a Voight-Kampff test for spiritless entities?

Between the [physical] body and the spirit is the soul, which maybe regarded as the mediator or bridge between them, and Steinerspeaks of how it gathers treasures from the earthly experience tobestow on the spirit. The soul is not immortal, as the spirit is; afterdeath it is gradually dissolved into the 'soul world.'

Such cases are increasing in which children are born with a humanform, but are not really human beings in relation to their highest I;instead, they are filled with beings that do not belong to thehuman class. Quite a number of people have been born since thenineties without an I, that is, they are not reincarnated, but arehuman forms filled with a sort of natural demon. There are quite alarge number of older people going around who are actually nothuman beings, but are only natural; they are human beings only inregard to their form.

Ask them to memorise a sentence?):

He then suggests:

This still begs the question of how one identifies such a person, beyondintuition. I suspect most of us tend to associate soulless/spiritless typeswith the “psychopath” ( Montauk.net evidently does, andsoulmindspirit cites several pertinent references to the disinclination ofsoldiers on the battlefield to open fire on the enemy). Some may even bethose with no or limited capacity for inner reflection, regardless ofwhether that lends itself to “good” or “bad” behaviour. Montalk.net’spiece speculates on various ways in which people end up spiritless, butthere’s also the possibility that the appearance of spiritlessness couldsimply mean the spirit/I has been suppressed, rather than necessarily

This is something that is now quite common, that human beingsgo around without an I; they are actually not human beings, buthave only a human form. They are beings like nature spirits, whichwe do not recognize as such because they go around in a humanform. They are also quite different from human beings in regard toeverything spiritual. They can, for example, never remember suchthings as sentences; they have a memory only for words, not forsentences.

It is also possible that something like an automaton could occur.The entire human organism exists, and it might be possible toautomate the brain and develop a kind of pseudomorality.

I do not like to talk about such things since we have often beenattacked even without them. Imagine what people would say ifthey heard that we say there are people who are not humanbeings. Nevertheless, these are facts.

vacating or never being there at all.

View attachment 6676

Steiner also emphasised this unnatural incarnatory process as intrinsic tothe modern era, the current Ahrimanic (essentially materialist - hissculpture of Ahriman pictured above) age (The Book of Revelation andthe Work of the Priest, Lecture 13, 17 September 1924):

Further still, he delves into the specifics of where the human part goesmissing. Some of this is curious, notably his assertion that we’re all“tagging along” until about the age of twenty, when the spirit/I takesroot.

…in our time certain supernumerary people are appearing whohave no ‘I’ and are therefore not human beings in the full sense ofthe word. This is a terrible truth. They go about, but are notincarnated ‘I’s; they take their place in physical heredity, receive anether body and an astral body and in a sense become equippedinwardly with an Ahrimanic consciousness. They appear to behuman if you do not look too closely, yet they are not humanbeings in the full sense of the word.

This is a terrible truth and it is a fact. The apocalyptist is pointingdirectly at human beings themselves when he speaks about theplague of locusts in the age of the fifth trumpet. Once again wecan recognise the apocalyptist by the manner of his vision. In theirastral body such people appear just as the apocalyptist describesthem: like etheric locusts with human faces…

These are not necessarily always evil souls; they may merely besouls that develop as far as the soul realm but lack an ‘I’. One issure to notice if one comes across such a person... Above all, people

On another occasion, Steiner emphasises that the “very many people…being born who do not follow the regular course of reincarnation” is “apeculiar and deeply significant phenomenon” ( The New Spirituality andthe Christ Experience in the Twentieth Century, Lecture Two, October1920). (When Steiner talks below about the three members of humannature, he’s referring to the nerve-sense system, the rhythmic system andthe metabolic-limb system. These respectively, in terms of the soul,correspond to imagination, feeling and desiring, and in terms of spirit, topure thinking, pure feeling and pure willing. So in terms of utilising themetabolic system, these beings are controlling the aspects of desire andwill. Although, he says “they also work in the trunk, in the rhythmic systemand in the sensory-nervous system"):

who have healthy souls suffer as a consequence of those who goabout as human locusts. So the question can arise, and indeedmust arise, as to how one should behave towards such people.

This can be quite a difficult task, for such people often have deepfeelings; they can have very deep feelings and yet one notices thatthere is no actual individuality in them. Of course the fact thatthere is no individuality in them must be carefully concealed fromthem for otherwise they would go mad. Despite having to concealthis from them one must ensure that such souls — for soul theyare, even if not spirit — can make contact with other humanbeings and can develop in their wake, so that they can, as it were,tag along with the others. Such human beings fairly accuratelydemonstrate the nature and being of man up to the twentieth year,for it is not until the twentieth year that the mind soul orintellectual soul is born, which is what provides the possibility forthe `I’ to live on the earth.

What confronts us as a human being in human form does notalways have to be as it outwardly appears. The outer appearancecan, in fact, be just appearance. It is possible for us to confronthuman beings in human form who only appear to be humanbeings of the kind that are subject to repeated lives on earth. In

Curiously, Steiner then goes on to specify that many of those in secretsocieties are of this nature, via “beings who… attract particular followersor radiate like an epidemic their own exceptional qualities onto otherhuman beings”:

Steiner then talks about three kinds of incarnating beings (contradictorily

reality these are human bodies with a physical, etheric, and astralbody – but there are other beings incarnated here, beings who usethese people in order to work through them. There are in fact alarge number of people, for example in the West, who are notsimply reincarnated human beings, but are the bearers of beingswho have taken an extremely premature path of development andwho should only appear in the form of humanity at a later stage oftheir evolution. Now, these beings do not make use of the wholehuman organism but use chiefly the metabolic system of theseWestern human beings. Of the three members of the humannature, they use the metabolic system and do so in such a waythat, through these human beings, they work into the physicalworld. For one who can observe life with a certain accuracy, peopleof this kind even show outwardly that this is how it is with them.

Thus, for example, a large number of those individuals who belongto Anglo-Saxon secret societies and who have great influence – wehave spoken on a number of occasions in past years on the role ofthese secret societies – are actually the bearers of prematureexistences of this kind which, through the metabolic system ofcertain people, work into the world and seek out a field of actionthrough human bodies and do not live in normal regularincarnations. The leading personalities of certain sects are of thisnature, and the overwhelming majority of a very widespread sectthat has a great following in the West is made up of individuals ofthis kind. In this way a completely different spirituality is workinginto present-day human beings and it will be an essential task tobe able to take up a stand toward life from this point of view.

QUOTE from Magnumopus:

"On the other hand, it’s speculated that Steiner’s early death was theresult of poisoning, on account of his revealing too much guardedwisdom."

With regards to this mention on Steiner's death a comment can bemade of some relevance. In recent years I had attended lectures at aTheosophical branch in Australia. On one occasion I heard a[gentleman] guest speaker share the belief that Steiner had beenpoisoned and eventually succumbed to its effect. He had a long

– it may be the translation – he first says these three kinds of beingincarnate through the metabolic system, but then distinguishes thesystems through which each incarnates). Those “that have a particularattraction to… the elemental forces of the earth…” manifesting in terms ofinclinations to colonise and establish trade. Those (incarnating throughthe rhythmic system) intent on “supressing consciousness of self” soproducing “in other people around them, amongst whom something likethis spreads like an epidemic, a certain desire not to call themselves toaccount concerning the real motives behind their actions” (Seiner cites apublication by Oxford professors as evidence of such “superficial,untruthful” influences). And those (incarnating through the sensory-nervous system) striving “to cause the individual abilities in the humanbeing to be forgotten… and to turn human beings more or less into astereotyped replica of their nation… to prevent the human being fromcoming to individual spirituality”.

He considers all three forces are encouraged by the West’s “specificallyeconomic way of thinking” removing everything else, “to root out thespiritual life, to chip away the political life and to absorb everything intothe life of economics”. He goes on to distinguish this from theirmanifestation in the East, where they manifest not in physical bodies butas “beings that appear to people and inspire them during sleep at night”.

Reply

Collapseinrealtime and Prolix

association with the Steiner movement and claimed his version wasauthentic but not the usual explanation for Steiner's demise.