samandi

8/4/2019 SamAndI

1/7

This is the email correspondence between Sam Shamoun and myself from the point where we discussed having a live chat. I am publishing these in response to Sams public accusation that I am a liar, and that I ran away from the debate and falsely accused him of avoiding me.

Edward, don't think you can come here with your lies and get away with them. Do Ineed to repost all the emails and questions which I sent you in order to expose

you as being no better than the Musim apologistsyou decry?

To correct your boldface lie, I didn't simply invite you to debate whether Genesis is compatible with modern scientific theories. I also challenged you, and will again repeat my challenge, to come on our show and defend your beliefs as an atheist so I can expose just how irrational and inconsistent you truly are. But,alas, you chose rather to run and pretend that I have been trying to avoid you,since you know better.

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/muhammads-flat-earth.html

==================Tr to samMay 2Hi Sam

We should have had our chat this weekend, I had 4 days off :)

Can you believe after making my video Muslims are telling me that the links fromthe Quran to genesis are in my biased mind? Well of course you can believe it,but can you believe it? :)

sam shamoun to meMay 2Sure can believe it. :-)

I was away doing the Jesus or Muhammad shows: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/04/sam-and-david-on-jesus-or-muhammad-this.html

David is the former atheist who debated Loftus: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010/03/david-wood-vs-john-w-loftus-does-god.html

I will give u advance notice when we do the shows next month so you can call in

and chat.

Tr to samMay 2I'll take a look tomorrow.

I'd imagine a phone call on a show would be short and challenging, I think a long chat would be much more fun don't you? :)

sam shamoun to meMay 2Written chats are only more beneficial if you don't obfuscate and avoid answerin

8/4/2019 SamAndI

2/7

g questions, much like you did in our last email when I asked you a series of questions regarding your criticism of biblical ethics. However, when you call in you won't have a chance to avoid answering them since I will make sure to press you for answers. And we can make it a long show where you don't need to make it short.

So I think that would be more fruitful for people, don't you?

sam shamoun to meMay 2Just saw your video on the Big Bang and your exegesis of Genesis 1 is laughable.You definitely need to call on the show since I won't let you get away with your sloppy and feeble (should I say pathetic) attempt of connecting between Genesis and the Quran. You better brush up on some commentaries by Old Earth creationists concerning the meaning of Genesis 1 before you come on the show.

Your confidence (or should I say your arrogance) in speaking about Biblical matt

ers is starting to get me upset and that isn't good for you.

Anyway, I am off to refuting more Muslims. So until we "chat" on the show keep up your work of discussing the Quran, but do make sure to stay away from Biblicalexegesis since you are an amateur in that area.

Tr to samMay 2I was suggesting a video chat like I did with my muzzy friends, not a boring written one :)

I find face to face chats much more interpersonal and enjoyable. It's not aboutchallenge for me, I don't see it as X won and Y lost. For me it's about the enjoyment of the conversation, I don't really enjoy faceless conversations - I havean odd brain that struggles to follow voice with a lack of visual cues, it takestoo much brain power for me and I misunderstand a lot more.

It's up to you :)

Tr to samMay 2I can't see why you would be "upset" I certainly don't get upset by people misunderstanding evolution. You really should try to separate your emotions from yourstance. Like me, I frankly don't give a damn what's right, I only care that ifI am wrong I discover it ASAP.

Regarding genesis, I simply look at the words and take them at face value. I expect god to be straight up front with me and tell it how it is, I also expect philosophers of the past to guess at stuff and get it wrong.

Please do feel free to explain why my video is wrong. It won't change my argument against the Quran though, because I think mo just regurgitated a literal interpretation.

sam shamoun to meMay 2

8/4/2019 SamAndI

3/7

Well, I don't do video chats for now since I am techincal illiterate and will need someone to help me which will take some time. However, if you really want to"chat" I can arrange for it on the show so we can see how your arguments againstGod's existence and your really bad exegesis of genesis stands up to cross examination.

Do yourself a favor and brush up on the arguments of Old Earth creationists befo

re you chime in on Genesis. You need to hear more than one side before you proceed to criticize things based on your lack of knowledge and understanding.

Anyway, will keep you up to date concerning the next time we do the shows.

sam shamoun to meMay 2My reason for getting upset is because of the impression you give that you really know what you are talking about when it comes to Genesis, when you really don't. In this regard, you are imitating Muslims who speak on issues that they have

no right to speak about and I expect better from you in light of your own standards.

A surface level reading of words which you think you have understood is not a good enough excuse. You need to look at the original languages of the texts and see how such words have and can be understood within their immediate and over allcontexts.

Moreover, instead of telling me to expose your errors, please do feel free to spend some money and time perusing books and articles by old earth creationists. Isent you one link for starters. Here is another: http://www.jashow.org/Articles/archives-sc.htm

Also make sure to check this out as well: http://www.jashow.org/coming-to-the-john-ankerberg-show/beginning-sunday-february-27does-the-new-scientific-evidence-about-the-origin-of-lifeput-an-end-to-darwinian-evolution/

Anyway, this will be my last email for now. Talk to you soon.

Tr to samMay 3Video chat is simple assuming you have a web cam and mic already? Do you, and doyou have skype installed?

Tr to samMay 3That's still not a reason to get emotional. I think that being emotional about an issue tends to be detrimental as it can lead one to bias.

The Rationalizer to samMay 3Okay, read that one. I must admit that it reeks of the same kind of logic I hearfrom Muslims when they explain how their religion isn't incorrect, and how thetrue meaning of the text is really somewhat different from that you get from jus

t reading it.

It seems to take the same "You cannot prove it is wrong" approach of an Islamic

8/4/2019 SamAndI

4/7

apologist, rather than the "Look it's clearly right" approach - this is evidentby the fact that 6 day creationists exist.

I'll get to the others as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read!

The Rationalizer to samMay 5Hi Sam

I watched a few of your JesusOrMuhammad shows yesterday. The phone-in seems to be a high-energy confrontational episode, which isn't the kind of thing I had inmind. I was thinking of a casual civilised discussion between two people who have two very different mental models of reality, which is why I proposed a private chat instead.

sam shamoun to meMay 5Tell you what. There is an upcoming marathon scheduled for June which will havethe who's who of apologists refuting Islam, including James White, Anthony Rogers and others who specialize in decimating atheist objections as well. I can contact ABN and have them schedule a show or shows between you and one of us where it will be lively and civil since they wouldn't mind doing it. They already did shows on exposing the irrationality of atheism with David Wood and Matt Slick which you can find in their archives. Let me know if you are interested.

The Rationalizer to samMay 5I've already explained my adversity to the idea of a phone call, one of which being the cost of a long duration long-distance phone call :)

Would we be able to do it via video-skype?

The Rationalizer to samMay 5Just to be clear"Would we be able to do it via video-skype?"

"It" being the talk on the show. I don't mind it being on a show, although I'dprefer something neutral such as us both being at home.

sam shamoun to meMay 5No one said you had to use the phone. If you have seen the show you see that wealso use skype which won't cost you a dime. So video-skype should be fine.


8/4/2019 SamAndI

5/7

I've seen bits of a few shows, didn't see anything about communication methods.If I will be visible on the show then that's acceptable, because when explaining things I often depend very much on gestures to clarify meaning.

I'll be happy for you to convince me that Genesis is correct, there is a god, and that the Bible is the word of god. Do you know the exact date and time yet?

sam shamoun to meMay 5In other words, instead of relying on logic t convince your audience, you chooseto try to sway people by appealing to their emotions through the use of facialand hand gestures in order.

Hey, at least your honest.

I also notice how you are already trying to avoid having to defend your irration

al materialistic, atheistic worldview. Sorry, but if we are going to do this youare going to also be forced to defend your worldview and explain your inconsistent and dishonest use of logic, reason, induction, morality etc. when you cannotaccount for such concepts in your naturalistic, materialistic belief system.

So we are all going to be excited and happy to see how you not only try to refute the facts for the existence God of the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the exegesis of Genesis, but also try to prove why your belief system is true.

Let me know if you accept since I will try to get this set up for sometime in June.

The Rationalizer to samMay 5>In other words, instead of relying on logic t convince your audience, you choose to try to sway people by appealing to their emotions through the use of facialand hand gestures in order.

If you have seen my video with the Muslim guys I use visual gestures to explainstuff. I also think its only fair that both parties experience as much of an equal standing as possible, if identifying with a human face is a factor then indeed it should be equal. I see no issue with demanding an equal footing :)

>but if we are going to do this you are going to also be forced to defend your worldview

I am happy to answer any questions you like, but I was under the impression thatyou were going to prove to me that Genesis is scientifically accurate? Is thatcorrect or not?

>So we are all going to be excited and happy to see how you not only try to refute the facts for the existence God of the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the exegesis of Genesis, but also try to prove why your belief system is

true.

Sure, give me all the facts you have, I like knowledge. You are in a good posit

8/4/2019 SamAndI

6/7

ion that I am not very familiar with the Bible, so I am practically a blank pagewaiting to be filled up. I do however like to ask questions about what I am told. I am also happy to try to rationalise any belief I currently hold to be true.

I'll be able to see you on skye video too though won't I? As I explained I depend on being able to see people I talk to as it makes me feel uncomfortable if I

cannot.

sam shamoun to meMay 5I guess you didn't read my email carefully. I clearly stated that not only willyou have to refute the clear evidence for existence of God, the resurrection ofJesus, AND THE EXEGESIS GENESIS 1, you are going to be forced to defend your inconsistent, irrational worldview. Which part of the first part where I mention the exegesis of Genesis 1 wasn't clear to you?

People will be able to see you on skype so will be able to try and sway them byappeal to their emotions. You are going to need it.

So can I arrange this now since there are a couple of gentlemen who will be excited to know that an atheist thinks he can refute Christianity and still remain consistent with their naturalistic, materialistic atheistic worldview.

The Rationalizer to samMay 5I said that the point of the conversation was originally proposed in order to discuss Genesis. You have since added the additional criteria and I replied that

I am happy to discuss anything you wish.

I also made no such claim about being able to refute Christianity, I said I knowlittle of Christianity and that I am happy to discuss it with you so that you may present me with the facts.

>People will be able to see you on skype so will be able to try and sway them byappeal to their emotions

I have explained this three times now so I don't know why you keep insisting theopposite of what I say is true. You guys will be on screen, I see no problem with myself being given the same privilege. However my question was, will *I* beable to see the person I am talking to on skype?


So, when is the event, what skype ID do I need to call, what time should I call,and how long do I have to talk?


8/4/2019 SamAndI

7/7

Do you have a show date yet?

The Rationalizer to samJun 14

Are you going to invite me onto this show? And which of these is your correct email address?==================

After this correspondence went dead I waited for a while (perhaps a month) and posted on his youtube channel asking if we are going to have our chat or not. Hedeleted my post.

samandi

Documents