scared hoop interview

8/8/2019 Scared Hoop Interview

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Steven Foster and

Meredith Little

Some people ask us,how did the work start?

Well, the work started thousands

of years ago with indigenous

people, and we just happen to

be modern people who have

picked it back up again.

Native people have always done

this work, but amongst modern

white people it is not generally

understood. When we first started

guiding rites of passages, we were

considered to be crazy, that wed

lost our marbles, were a cult.

For thousands of years, not only on the

American continent, but in most culturesaround the world, you find native people

who have provided meaningful ways of

marking the passage from one life stage to

another. In the Germanic, or British Celtic

background you find similar kinds of rites of

passage as those of the Native Americans.

All we have done is to help bring these ways

back into Western culture, trying to appropriatelysupport the challenges and life transitions of

people who live in the modern world today.

THE

TEACHINGSOF THE

WILD

PLACE


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SHISSUE 66 2009 7

Above: tattooedarm of a member

of an Americanstreet gang

Left: Stevenand Meredith

wilderness rite of passageoften involves the real or

perceived risk of livingalone for three or four

days and nights, without food orshelter, as a meaningful way ofmarking, celebrating, andconfirming the major changes in

life we all go through.In the popular mind at least, itsconcerned mostly with the passagefrom childhood to adulthood; andcertainly in most traditional culturesthis passage is marked by certainkinds of experiences, growthevents and ceremonies which thewhole community involvedthemselves in, and which have thesanction of the culture. Afterchildren go through thisexperience, they come out theother side and are considered to

be adults - given all the rights andprivileges of adulthood. This issomething we really dont seem tounderstand in our modern world.

These new roles cannot bemerely given, they need to beearned by passing through the rite,by proving oneself worthy. You canlisten to the old people talk aboutwhats important until youre bluein the face, but until you haveexperienced whats important, itsall meaningless talk. Thats one ofthe problems our young people are

experiencing today - there areplenty of people who are givingthem advice. But young peopleknow, deep down, that they needto do more than just listen, and sobecause there are few culturallysanctioned rites, we often seethem pursuing some sort of rite ofpassage in their own fashion.

In America, and also in Britain,there are many, many urbangangs. The beauty of the gang isthat the members are finding forthemselves ways to be initiated.Gangs include a sense ofcommunity, and they involve theindividual seriously brushing up as

close as they can to death to findout who they are; and then beingaccepted within a new role as amember of the gang.

Unfortunately, when we haveyouth initiating youth it becomesan inadequate and often self-destructive rite of passage. Theyhave the elements, there issomething in us all that knowswhat we need, and when its notprovided - well, we see whatshappening in our culture today.

Until we can provide genuine

rites of passage experiences forour youth, we cant possiblyexpect our youth to grow intohealthy maturity. Instead what wewill have are older people, such asthose who are in positions ofauthority, who have never beeninitiated, and who are, in RobertBlys words, nothing butuninitiated boys and girls.

THE THREE PHASES

One of the people who wroteabout this process was Arnold van

Gennep, a French anthropologistwho recognised that every rite ofpassage contained three phases.He saw this consistently andclearly throughout the manycultures that he studied.

The first phase is the severancephase, which can take a full year or

longer. This is the time to let go ofour life up until this point, and tocultivate understanding about whatit means to enter the new lifestage. This phase generallycontains a lot of teachings, andduring this time the elders of a

community would guide, and passon the wisdom, knowledge andstories of the culture, whichsupported the new role.

Then comes the middle phaseknown as the threshold, which isthe actual testing time. In ourcase, it is the three or four daysand nights alone, fasting.

For a young person markingtheir passage into adulthood, theyare severed from their parents,from their familiar culture, and givenback to the Great Mother, the Great

Father; to be born again as adultsin the sacred wholeness of life.

This phase engenders a sense ofwhat ones own personal and uniquegifts are, what values and dreamsmake up this newly initiated adult.What their place is in the communityat large. When the phase iscomplete, the initiate returns to thecommunity once again.

The third phase is theincorporation phase- which againcan take a year or more tocomplete. This is a time of gaining

the courage, and honing the skills,to fully take on the understandingthat was given to them when theywere alone. A time to learn how to

A Gangs include asense of community,they involve the

individual seriously

brushing up as

close as they can

to death to find

out who they are;

and then being

accepted within

a new role as a

member of the gang


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SHISSUE 66 20098

apply their gifts in ways that feed

the greater community - and soenable the community to survive.

What we lack today, and whatwas in so many traditional cultures,is a community to formally receivethe initiate back. There is a needfor both a welcoming andsupportive community, as well as agroup of elders who, not onlyguide the severance phase, butare also there to listen to thestories brought back from thethreshold. These elders must bethere on the other side to say

Good, this is your gift, we see

you, we recognise you, and wewelcome you back so that we canall together make our community agood place.

Because our elders are rarelythere to welcome the young peopleback, we are no longer hearing thestories that the young people have

to tell us. Early cultures knew thatany story that was brought backfrom this rite was not just for theindividual who brought it back, butwas also spiritual food for thewhole community.

Until we begin to listen to thestories of our youth we are goingto remain stagnant - a stagnantculture thats not hearing what istruly needed for the health of thecommunity, because the youngpeoples stories contain importantpieces of this knowledge.

PREPARING FOR THE RITE

Many modern people have no ideahow to be in the wilderness,particularly if they are alone. So agood deal of our preparation hasto do with screening them to see ifthey are going to be safe.

This involves asking themquestions about their life andabout their intent - particularlyabout their intent. If their intent isstrong and honest, then generallythe person will move in a balanced

way and be more likely to actsafely. If there is a weak intent, ifthe person is not sure why theyare doing the rite, then theirchances of being in danger are alittle bit more real.

There is also quite extensivephysical preparation. People haveto learn how to camp, whatequipment to have, how muchwater they need every day, what todo in case of lightning storms orflash floods, what habits theanimals in the wild have, and what

to do if they meet up with them.People also have to learn how

to take care of themselves whilethey are fasting. A lot of peoplethink that if they dont have food intheir belly, they might just fall overdead. Of course they dont, butthey do get weaker, so they haveto have instruction on how to makesure that they act appropriately ifthey are in a weakened condition.

We always make sure that theyknow that they can come in at anytime and will be welcomed by those

who are holding the space at thebase camp, to either talk for a timeand go back out, or to remain inbase camp if they feel finished.

FEAR, FOOD AND DEATH

Its important for people to feel, atleast a little bit deep down, thatthey might die. This was animportant ingredient in traditionalrites, and is still important formodern ones.

For modern Western people

simply to go without food is oftenvery frightening. Initially goingwithout food is many peoplesgreatest fear; but they discoverthat loneliness and boredombecome much bigger monsters.Fasting actually becomes a kind ofdelight for most people.

When we dont have thedistraction of a fridge, or atelephone, or a television, or aniPod, or a book to read, we findour emotions rising to the surfaceand their information more clearly

accessible. There is also a greatclarity of mind that comes withfasting. One feels empty, and whatfeels unimportant falls awayremarkably easily. There is a claritywithin the silence and the innerand outer space we sit within, thatfloods into us when we are noteating. It is as if the environmentbecomes our food, and with it adeep sense of what is truly neededand important.

This sense of clarity can bevery profound. Some people upon

their return, talk about having felt

A lot of people think that if they

dont have food in their belly,

they might just fall over dead

There is a clarity within the silence

that floods into us when we are not

eating, it is as if the environment

becomes our food, and with it a

deep sense of what is truly

needed and important


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SHISSUE 66 2009 9

high while they fasted, and wealways emphasise this with youngpeople - the old way is that if youwant to get high, dont putanything in - not even food.Obviously the ancients had a fairlygood idea of how to get highwithout using drugs. Thats

certainly an old secret we wouldlike to re-introduce to the modernworld. There also comes a deeperempathy for the many people inour world who experience hungerand deprivation on a daily basis.

THE MAZE AND THE AMAZING

We have recognised over theyears that the more we, as thefacilitators, get out of the waywhen people actually go out onthe land, the more the ceremony,the land, and this interrelationship

with the individual, does theteaching. If there is a teacher it isnot us. If there is a teacher it isthe land and the ceremony itself.

So we dont tell people how tothink or how to feel or how tomake meaning, we encouragethem to bring their own faith andtheir own belief systems, and totrust their own selves in theexperience. Our role as facilitatorsis mainly to make sure they aregoing to be safe - physically,psychologically and spiritually - and

then give them over to the Great

Teacher without interfering.Nature is a great teacher. She is

a mirror. She reflects back to usour internal condition. If we areangry and we look out on nature,we see symbols and images ofanger. If we are unhappy, we seesymbols and images of our

unhappiness. If we are afraid, thevery bushes seem to becomemonsters with arms. This is perhapsone of the most important ways inwhich nature teaches us - shereflects back to us what we happento be feeling or thinking at anygiven moment. Thats an old, oldteaching, and an old understanding.

In the mirror of nature peoplecan find images and symbols oftheir own power, their own gifts,their own abilities, or, what thenative people called, their own

medicine. And the beauty of it isthere is no judgement, theres onlybeing seen. Its rare in our culturethat we can be seen withoutjudgement, but nature does that,sees us, witnesses us, and reflectsback to us.

People come back owning andreally recognising their ownwounds and their own hurts - aswell as their own gifts. And theycome back with the ability toaccept these because they feelthey have been so accepted by the

land. And this is the highest place

Psychology is a science that has

been developed in order to study

the caged animal. There was a time

when we werent so caged, but now

we have all kinds of restraints which

keep us separate from nature, and

separate us from our own nature


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we can get in our lives tobecome fully human, accepting ourshadow, our mistakes, as well asour gifts and our joys.

Indigenous peoples saw everylandform, every expression ofnature, as containing a piece ofeternal wisdom. The clues about

co-operation, generosity, healing,communication, transformation,and so much more, are all there.And far healthier than the clues weoften pick up in our cities andfamily systems.

One could say that modernpsychology is a young science thathas been developed in order tostudy the caged animal, and tendsto be problem oriented. There wasa time when we werent so caged,but now we have all kinds of

restraints. Our

everyday schedulescage us, the fast pace,

the very homes welive in which keep usseparate from nature,

and separate us fromour own nature as

well - we are humananimals after all.

Culture and media seem tobombard us from all sides withimages of what we should want,what we need, what we might wantto dream for. So many of our

stories are being made up for usnow, instead of composing our own.People in the modern world seemto have lost their stories, lost theirability to say Im going to do this,this is who I am and then do it insome deep and meaningful way.

We see others and ourselvesbehaving like animals in a maze.We have learnt how to go throughthe maze in order to get that littlebit of cheese at the end, and weare really good at pressing thebutton to get that little bit of

cheese, without realising thataround us really is infinite space,freedom, and possibility.

One thing that is evoked in thehuman psyche by being on theland is that people remember whothey truly are. They begin toremember parts of themselves thatare never evoked by being in acivilised world. There is a sense ofquieting, a sense of settling downinto ourselves which we gain frombeing alone on the land.

Rather than mostly seeingourselves through the eyes ofsomeone else, we begin to seeourselves through the eyes of

So many of our stories are

being made up for us now,

instead of composing our own.People in the modern world

seem to have lost their stories,

lost their ability to say Im going

to do this, this is who I am


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SHISSUE 66 2009 11

nature, and through the eyes ofour own heart. We begin to realisethat where we have been puttingso much energy in our lives isactually unimportant, and thatmany of the things that are reallyimportant to us, we dont give timeor energy to at all.

So a wilderness rite of passagenot only supports us to takeresponsibility for claiming our own,real life back, it gives us thecourage to go back and live ourown, true story in the everyday.

OUT IN THE WILDS

Practically speaking, of course,most of the time out in thewilderness people twiddle theirthumbs a lot, they sit on their bumsa lot, they sleep under the starsand they get rained on. If they get

wet and cold, or hot and dry out ina warm climate, they have to learnhow to take care of themselveswithout anybody else telling themhow and what to do, and withouttoo many modern conveniences,just what they happen to havebrought in their pack.

We let them move about on theland, but they cant go too farbecause they feel a little weakfrom fasting. Some traditions havepeople stay put in a very smallarea. They sometimes pray, and

sing, and dance, and sometimesthey shake a rattle - maybe forhours at a time. They write in theirjournals about their feelings andexperiences.

They encounter animals ofvarious kinds, from fairly largemammals, to the tiniest insects.They live with the flies, they watchthe flowers open and close, andthey watch things live and die.They experience nature in the raw,and they do it without anypartition, any barrier between

themselves and the weather andland. This is perhaps one of themost frightening and also one ofthe most rewarding kinds ofgrowth events anyone in thismodern world might have.

One of the important things itinvokes in us is the recognitionthat really we are alwaysconnected, always in a relationshipwith the world and land that isaround us. In our civilised world weare so bombarded by people andinput, that we often have to put up

a protection; its all too much, andits often dangerous to extend ourconsciousness out to the otherpeople and the world around us.

In the modern world we oftenfeel out of place, unimportant, anddisconnected in ways that we findpainful. Not many people feel theyreally belong to the land anymore,and so to have the experience offeeling that we have a place wherewe belong, makes us start to

sense just how alive the land reallyis. When we feel that, we knowthat we are not detached.

We feel our innate intimaterelationship with the land, ratherthan being above it or separatefrom it. We come from the earthand we go back to the earth. Aswe grow older we begin tounderstand that better and better.

This kind of wisdom about theintimate relationship between lifeand death was certainly a part ofthe understanding of the

ancients, even if nowadays itseems to be getting pretty lost inWestern culture. As we grow olderand go through the various growthevents that produce us, we shouldgain wisdom, and ultimately theability to die well.

We go back to the earth whenwe die. Where do we go fromthere? Well, there are manydifferent theories about that, butthe fact of the matter is when wedie, we go back to the earth. Myfather, who just recently died, was

put in the earth. We watched themdo that, and that realisation to meis very important as I grow older.

Its important that as peoplegrow up, take on the roles ofadulthood, parenting, marriage,relationships, professions etc., andreach mid-life, they become awarethat they are ageing - that theirbodies are natural and that theyare going to die.

Today so many, many peoplenow die in hospital rooms, stonedout of their gourds on morphine or

some other pain killer - to thepoint that they cant even speak totheir loved ones anymore. Its likethey are dying in tiny, little, sterilecubicles, with a great sense of dis-attachment from the earth. That isheart breaking.

RETURNING ONCE AGAIN

Generally, people return from atime in the wilderness with agreater sense of self-reliance andwith greater confidence in theirown abilities. Young people often

return with a greater love andappreciation for their parents andtheir upbringing. This appreciationhelps them to die well to their

childhood, and turnmore fully toward whatsnext. People also returnwith an enhanced desireto realise theirown dreams,and a confidencethat their dreams

are attainable inthe world.One of our

teachers, HyemeyohstsStorm, summed it upvery well. He said thatLoneliness is theteacher of giving. When peoplecome back they often feel ahunger within themselves to find away to give back to theircommunity. This is often verystrong and it stays with them for along time. They have a realisation

that there is something deep withinthem that is worthy to be givenback to others.

And yet, there is a restlessnessthat often occurs in people afterthey have returned, a feeling thatthey have come back to a worldwhere they cant experience whatthey experienced when they werealone in nature.

This can produce another veryimportant spin off from theexperience - a greater love andsense of gratitude for nature, and

an interest in the preservation ofwilderness and the ecological bio-systems within it.

Incorporation means taking onthe body, to in-corpo-rate, and itcan be the most difficult of all thethree phases for anyone to navigate.

Ancient people knew that thesetting of intent for a rite wasvery important; the Why am Idoing this?, What am I marking?had to be clear. If it was clearlystated, prepared for, andunderstood, then when the

individual returned this intent hadbeen confirmed, and could neverbe taken away.

For instance, if a young persongoes out to mark their passagefrom childhood to adulthood, andthey have prepared to be an adultupon their return, then when theyreturn they are adults.

Or if someone goes out to markthat they have done the work ofhealing some abuse or a wound intheir lives, then when they comeback there is no question, that

wound or abuse is behind them -the pain of it may never go away, awound cant be cut away or erased- but they have marked that they


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have moved beyond it, that thewound no longer rules them.

Or if someone undertakes a riteto mark that they have now steppedinto their elderhood, and inevitablyduring their time alone they findgreater clarity about what it meansfor them personally to be an elder,

then when they return there is noquestion they are an elder. Webegin to call them grandmother orgrandfather, or use some otherway to acknowledge the respect wehave for them.

When we guide people througha rite of passage, upon their returnwe have what we call the elderscouncil or elders circle, wherethe threshold stories are told.Stories are told and the elderslisten and respond, mirroring back

the meaning and the beauty of thestory, giving it back to thestoryteller in such a way as toempower them to live that story. Inthe eyes of the elders who haveheard their story, they are now in adifferent phase of life, and theelders circle will remind them ofthat, and encourage and empowerthem to take the responsibility thatcomes with this new life phase.Thats the old way, the way it usedto be done.

People often return from the

pristine wilderness as high as akite, and filled with resolve andvision about what their futurescould be; and then they go rightback into a culture that does notvalue - and even makes fun of -what they have just done.

Because we no longer havecommunities where such rites arethe norm, we have a situationwhere people can easily lose theconfidence and the understandingthat they have attained. So it canbe a very difficult process, andthere is no easy answer until we

provide for these returning peoplea community of elders who havealso experienced the rite, elderswho can be there for the returningperson when they come back.

One of the ways that weprepare modern people to go backinto their life is to remind themthat they go back to a community,and often family and friends, whomay not understand what theyvebeen through, and may actuallyput down their experience. Weencourage them to hold the story

of their experience as a secretknowing within their own hearts,not giving it away to people whodont understand.

We also remind them that theincorporation phaseof theceremony lasts for a full year.There will come times when theyfeel the enormous discomfort andtension of the old story and thevision of who they are now. Hereis the moment of choice to eitherrefuse the call, or to manifestthemselves in the body of their new

story, for the people to see and beblessed by. In early cultures youhear this all the time - until visioncan be manifested, and given tothe community, it is not complete.

Rites of passage do not makelife easier; in fact they often make

it more difficult, more of achallenge. But what a rite does, isto bring more meaning into ourlives in ways that feed our soul,and the health of our people.

Often there are people whocome back to experience thisceremony again. For some people

it can become a spiritual practice,a little like yoga or meditation, andthrough this practice of going intothe wilderness again and again,over a period of years, a personencourages natural changetowards the direction they wish totake their lives.

The reintroduction of meaningfulrites of passage is growing; its nota tiny movement thats dying out.In the USA for example, there arehundreds of individuals andagencies who are using this

process to work not only withyouth, but with people in variousstages of life transition. This is truenot only in America, but also inBritain and across Europe. Wehave friends doing it in SouthAfrica and even in the jungles ofThailand. It has just begun, thesnowball has just begun to rolldown the hill, and well see whereit goes and how big it becomesbefore it finally crashes into themansions of culture!

This article was based on a videointerview recorded by Phil Stebbing andDavid Wendl-Berry in the spring of 2001.

Sacred Hoop wishes to thank Phil andDavid for their kind permission to extractfrom it, and also to Meredith Little forediting the transcript.

Rites of passage do not make

life easier; in fact they often

make it more difficult,

more of a challenge.But what a rite does,

is to bring more meaning

into our lives in ways

that feed our soul

Steven Foster andMeredith Little foundedRites of Passage in 1976to support their work inre-introducing wildernesspassage rites for youth

celebrating their journeyfrom childhood toadulthood. Their workexpanded into providingadults in natural lifetransitions with similaropportunities, and thefounding in 1981 of TheSchool of Lost Borders -a training centrepioneering the methodsand dynamics of modernpan-cultural passagerites in the wilderness,and field eco-therapytechniques.

The essence of their workis captured in articles,

chapters, an award-winning documentary film,and books that include:The Book of the VisionQuest, The Roaring ofthe Sacred River, TheFour Shields: TheInitiatory Seasons ofHuman Nature, andLost Borders: Coming of

Age in the Wilderness.

Since Stevens deathin 2003, Meredithcontinues both nationallyand internationally toguide and train othersin this work. Along withDr. Scott Eberle, she hasalso co-founded a newarm of Lost Bordersentitled The Practiceof Living and Dying.

www.schooloflostborders org

www.lostborderspress.com

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