seventy-seventh general assembly
TRANSCRIPT
' 1,
. HousE OF REPRESENTATIVES '
SEVENTY-SEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY
0NE HUNDRED FORTY-NINTH LEGISLATIVE DAY
'JUNE l3, 1972
lliOO O'CLOCK A.M. .
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j' ITHE HONORABLE W. ROBERT BLAIR, SPEAKER
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IN THE CHAIR' !
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A roll call for attendance was taken and indicated that
a1l were present with the exception of the following:
Representative James Y . Carter - illness;
Representative J. Horace Gardner - death;
Representative Henry J. Klosak - illness;
Representative Michael H. McDermott - illness;
Representative Edward Shaw - 'death .
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2.
Doorkeeper: ''A11 who are not entitled to this House Chamber,
will you please retire to the Gailery? Thank you-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The Doorkeeper will see that those per-
sons not entitl. ed .to the floor will be removed therefrom.
The invocation this morning will be by Dr. Johnson.''
Dr. John Johnscn: ''We pray. Almighty Lord of heaven and earth
we thank you first of a11 for permitting.us to bring our
requests before you. Give us the knowledge wc ask now to
lead our lives well. Help us to know our ignorance that we
may be teachable. Help us to know our weaknesses that we ma
be on guard against temptation. Help us to know cur strengt s .
that we may use fully all of those gift and talents which yo
have given us. Help us to knok you as the Creator and the
Preserver of all things, that we may work here to do your
will on earth. Help us to know your mercy so that we may
show 'mercy to a1l with whom wè come in contact. Help us
to know your love that we may be moved to demonstrate kind-
ness in all we undertake. We pray for such knowledge and
strength. this day and this week, because we eonfess you to
be the source of every good and perfect gift. Amena''
Hcn. W. Rcbert Blair: ''Roll Call for atténdance. Messagesfrom the Senate .''
Fredric B. Selcke: '.A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright,
Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House
of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede
from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title:
House Bill 3682. I am further directed to inform the House
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CcmFerence to consist of five Members from each House' to.%. r z' ' .'
c'oqstder the differences of the two Houses. Action taken by
the Senate, June 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Ah-.
Mr. Speaker - 1. am directed to inform the House of Repre-
sentatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their
Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 354 .
And, I am further directed to inform the House of Representa
Iti 'es that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference.
Ah.. action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth
Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform
the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to
'recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following
title: House Bill 3190. And, *1 am fprther directed to in-
form the House of Representatives that the senate àequests
a Committee of Conference. Action taken by the Senate,
June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker -
am directed to inform the House of .Representatives that the
Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill'
of tbe followinq title: House Bill 2416. And, I am further
directed to inform the House of Representatives that the
Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Action taken by
the Senate, June 7': 1972. Kenneth Wrighte Secretary. Mr.
Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representativ s
that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments
to a Bill of *lye following title: Hcuse Bill 2916 . And, I
am further directed to infokm the House 0/ Representatives, that the Senato requests a Committee of Conference. Action
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4taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenpeth Wright, Secre-
tary. A Messages from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary.
Mr. Speakera- I am directed to inform the House of Repre-
sentatives that tho Senate has concurred with the House inthe adoption of the following Joint Resoluticn: House JointResolution 140. Together with the following Amendment thereto in the adoption of which I am instrueted to ask concurren eof the House. Concurred in by the Senate
, as amended, June '8., 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am
direeted to inform the House of Representatives that thesenate has passed Bills cf the following title in the passagof whic'h I am instructed to ask ccncurrence of the House:
Senate Bills 1430, ah . . Senate Bill 1430, 1433, 1511, 1535,1542, 1581. Passed the Senate, June 8, 1972. Kenneth Wrigh .Secretary. Ah.. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the
House OE Representatives that %he Senate has passed Bills ofthe following title in the passaée of which I am instructed
to ask concurrence of the House: Senate Bill 1319, 1326,
1372, 13894-1509, 1548, 1555, 155G . Passed by the SenateyJune 8, 1972. Kenneth Wright. Secretary. Ah. . .
''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Committee Reports.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Xh. . Mr. Regner. from the Committee on
Appropriations, to which Sehate Bills 1325, 1360, 1463 and
1552 were referred, reported the same bdck with the recommen a-
tion that the Bills do pass. Mr. Regner, from Appropriationa,to whcih Senate Bills 970
, 1327 and 1562 wer'e referred, re-ported the same back witi Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bills,
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as amended. do pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on
Appropriations, to which House Bill 3763 was referred, re-
. ported the same back with Amendments theretoe with the
recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the '
Bill, as amended. do pass.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''House Bills Second Reading . House Bill
4102 . ''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4102, a Bill for an Act to pro-
vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Depart-
ment of Public Hea1th. Second Readfng of the Bill. Two
Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment No. 1, amend Hous
Bill 4102 on Page 1, Line l4, by deleting '992,100' and in-
serting in lieu thereof '967 100'7 andsoforth.''ê
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Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . Lee, Mr. Shapir .''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, this is an Agreed Amendment which reduces the
appropriation by $107,500. And ah..# I would ah. . urge the
approval of the House for Amendment No. 1, to House Bill
4102.',
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nAny further discussion? The question'i
on the adoption of Committee Amendment No. Al1 those in
favor say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'pyes' have it and the# #'
Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Ah.. Committee Amendment No. 2, amend Hous
Bill 4102 on Page Line 3, by striking 'l,323eOO0' and in-
serting in lieu thereof: 13,000,000'.1.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from ah . . Lee,
q vw-nl * ' A ciw.%% z zz.' ,$ '>. 4 e'i'?'n : G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yl 62:
..-.- ' N Jk . . ' . :; s'r-'rx oe 1 uul-ols
. (.vy ? n'. ' ' z sj o w s c o s s c e R c s s sr 'r A. v 1 v c s .
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6.shapiro.''
D. C. shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, this Amendment was not offered ah. . by Myself. Ah..
I am opposed, actually, to the Amendment ah . . more even
though it does increase grants to local health departments.
I feel that the integrity of the Bill ah. . does have to be
maintained.''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz-'T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentleme
of the House, this was ah . . . this Amendment increasing the
qrants ah.. for various Counties from one million and three
to three million d6llars was adopted in the House Appropria-
tions Committee after complete justificaticn for the Amend-
ment was given by Representative Hart to the Approprivtions
committee. This is his ah ... Amendment to the Bill. And,'it
was carried, thinke by fifteen. . . sixteen to nine, if my .
memory serves me correctly. And, I move for the adoption of
Amendment No. 2, .to this Bill..''ae
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Purther discussion? The gentleman from
Franklin, ah.. Mr. Hart.''
R. 0. Hart: 'eAh. ves. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, ah.. this Amendment is a very important Amendment
to ah.. to the Members here. And, I wish .-.. ah.. we could
pay a little bit of attention to it . think, most of you
have a letter on your desk this morning from the Public Heal hand you've probably been contacted by Public Health Officialin your various Districts! But ah.m, over the last few
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years, the amount of local grants for Public Healthm.e: I
mean, grants to the Local Public Health Units has decreased,
Ande really ah.o, in many inst#nces, the ah.. grants to the
Local Public Hqa1th Departments are where the people get
most of their services. 'rhis Amendment ah. . ah.. was adopte
in the Appropriations Committee. It would ah.. increase
the amount of grant to Local Public Health Units ah. . up to
three million dollars. It would ah.. more than double it .
the present time, the level is ah . . less than $.11 percapita. I think, that this Amendment should be adopted
. Ithas much support. And, know that it would... it would ah . .
be ah.. well thouqht in your Districts if you would acceptthis increase ah. . for Public.... Local Public Health Grm ts
.
And, I would appreciate the support of the House ih theadoption of khis Amendment
-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah .. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Col-'lins . ''
Pt Wu collins: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen ofthe House, Mah. . this Amendment is truly unique
. Ah.. thisis the first time I've seen an Amendment offered to an Appropriation Bill where the Department says'they not only don't ant
i't, but they donlt'need it. I don't see any justificationfor putting any money into ah. . into. Ulis budget when the
Director of the Department and his Assistants ah. . ah.. sat
before us, tokd us they didn't want didn't know how theywould administer it and truly did not need it
. I think, thaah.. welro really overstepping our bounds now when
we not
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8.' only are restoring cuts in a budget, but here we're going
beyond.the budget in saying that you have to take money that
you don't need and don't want. Ah.. I urge the ah . . defeat
of this Amendment.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from ah . . ah.. Cook.
Mr. Kosinski.''
R. J. Kosinski: ''Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen.. . Ladies and Gentl -
men of the House, this seems somewhat redundant in that we
went through this in Appropriations Committee. And, this
Amehdment did pass out, For clarification to the people of
this Assembly who are not part of that Appropriations Commit
tee, lee me indicate that Public Health, on a local level,' on a County level, has been subsidized in the past through '
the individual Counties. With these Counties being s'queezed
by increased costs, Public Health on a local level is su/fer
ing. The Appropriations Cbmmittee has been successful in .
pulling millions and millions of dollars out of. . out of
appropriations in this last year. It's project has' been oneax '
of austerity. Yet, in this instance, this unique 'situation
of adding to a ku dget is absolutely essential for Public I
Hea1th at a local level. While ah... P.W. indicated that the
Director was not in a position to accept this increase, the
. reason is obvious. He's contented to conform with the Burea
of the Budget's recommendation. Howqver, we people, who comfrom Counties that are sufferinge know how important Public
Hea1th is at that level, how essentiil it is to give the
public this service. This is a most imperative, I repeat, '
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a most imperative addition to this Bill. It will help a11
of us, the poor Counties. especially. encourage your vote
for.this Amendment-''
Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner-'''
J Reqner: ''Just in ah.. response to thé last speaker. thisD . .
Amendment did get adopted in Appropriations Committee. Bute
for the information of the Members of the General Assembly,it was not ah.. by unanimous vote. I forget the ah.. exact
total. But ah-., there were a few votes ah. . difference
that did pass it out but it was not a unanimous vote. It
was not an Agreed Amendment with the Department. And ah..,
as Representative rollins statea, the ah . . Department was
in opposition to this Amendment. And, I would urge a 'no'
vote on it.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: uThe gentleman from Cook. Mr. B. B.' Wolf .1'
B. Wclfe: ''Ah.. Mr. 'Speakçr'and Ladiês and Gentlemdn of the
House, I rise in support of this Amendment as it is a State
commitment to reimburse Local Units of Government in the
areas of Pûblic Health. And, think, the Amendment reflect
' what the House has already done in this area by ah. . sending
two Bills ah.. ah.. to th'e Senqte ah. . whieh ah.. Bills have
nöt been acted on by the Senate . And, I'm sure that ah . . ah..
this Amendment will ah.. replace the ah. . lo<t income which
ah.. was voted out of this House ah .. previously.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Richa dCarter.''
R. Ak Carter: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladips and Gentlemen of
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the House; I rise in support of this ah.. Amendment. We..
We.. We discussed this ahr. addition pro and con and ah.. ...
we went to great lengths to find out we had ah.. some excel-
lent testimony E. E. Dimmons who indicated that these monie
were very very necessary to this program. And. after a loùg
long debate, we decided that this Amendment was a very neces
sary one. And, while it was not unanimous, it was decided,
on a majority vote, that thi's addition should be made. So,
i i we ah we should ah.. have a votI feel that, at th s t me, ..
on it and ah.. ah.. settle this question once and for a11..'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Bocne, Mr. Cunning-
ham.''
Cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.d'
H W Robert Blair: nA1l those ih favor say 'aye' opfosedOn. . yI l the 'ayes' have it ahd the previous question has beinno ,
. moved. The gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart, ah.. to close.n
R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. very briefly. to close, Mr. Speaker. Ah..,
I thinke the Body here has been misinformed when it stated' Athat the Director opposed this Amendment. The Director did
not support it because, I bc ieve, he has a moral obligation
to support his budget as it comes out of the Budget Committe .
But, there isn't any doubt ah.. from his testimony and from
ah.. evidence and from what we all know that ah.. he would
be able to use some more money: at the local level, for Publ'c
Health. Now, the only alternative to ah.. increase it at th
local level for Public Hea1th is an i'ncrease in local taxes.
And, know that we a11 oppose that. 'So, it's ah.. the bur-
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den of thè State, I think, to come in and upgrade and imple-
ment the programs that are held on a local level. I again' say, this Amendment is very important in every District in
the State. And, I know that it has much support throughout'
the State of Illinois. And, I would ask for your support.
And, I would like to have a Roll Call vote, Mr. Speaker-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. .fhe question is on the
adoption of Amendment No. All those in favor will vote
'ayel, and the opposed 'no'. Have all Qoted who wished?
The Clerk will take the record. On this'questiope there are
91 'Ayes' and 31 'Nays' and the Amendment ah.. is adopted.
Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. Lechowicz, amend House
Bill 41.....,
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz.''
T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle-
men of the Hcuse, Amendment No. 3 is an Amendment that was
o/fered in Committee. And, the vote was twelve to twelve
in the Appropriations Committee. What it does is appropriat
a million and a half dollars, one million, five hundred
thousand dollars to ah.. Public Health for the Chicago
Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium. .This House, in its wisdo
in 1971, passed a Bill for this amount of money. It was
Representative B. B. Wolfe's Bill for the Tuberculosis Sani-
tarium. When it went into the Senate, they said that this
money should be in Public Health. This is exactly what
this Amendment does. Andy move for its adoption-''
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Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The gentleman frcm Lee,
Mr. Shapiro.''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker: Ladies and Gentlemen of the '
Housey I rise in opposition ah.. to this Amendment. This is
an Amendment that was defeated in the House Committee. And,
the Department ah.. of Public Health oppcsed the Amendment.
Now, the Department stated, at the time and in subsequent
conversations concerning this Amendment, that at no time
during the year has the Department been made aware of the
need of any additional funds for the Municipal Tuberculosis
Sanitarium of Chicago. Not only is the incidence of tubercu
losis decreasing, but new methods of treatment and out-patie t
are have substantially reduced the stay of patients at thiscIi . *
particular sanitarium. Now, if you will recall, in the past
the Chicago State Tuberculosis Sanitarium, which was by far
a more modern Institution with a much better and highly
sophisticated staff, is no longer taking care of tuberculosi
patients. At one time, Chicago state offered to take over..M
all of the tuberculosis patients of the Chicago Municipal
Sand and this was turned down by the City of Chicago. It
must be assumed, therefore, that the Municipal TB Sand has
sufficient funds to be able to take care oE themselves. Fur
ther more. think, if you'll recall, as recently as May
29th, 1970, House Bill 36.99 was passqd which allowed the
Chicago TB Sand to increase its levy for tuberculcsis from
seven and a half to nine million dollars. As I see
Ladies and Gentlemen of.the House, thère is no need for this
h'', ! - 'mv. ' , c s N jï R A j. A s s p: M B 1, v? h!' . .
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l3.
Amendment. Ik'!.' is' obvious that they éhould have sufficient
funds to see tsgemselves through the year. Ahd, I would urge
everyone to vfte against the adoption of this Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Tel'cser: ''The gentleman from Cook e Representa-
tive B. B. WoYxpe.ll
, : .'B. B. Wolfe: 'AIk.. tvm . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, rise in ah.. support of this' Amendment. And:I
would like to ,i'e11 the House that we passed, in this House,
two years ago.'r.'.okt',Bills, one to provide the increased levy
within the ah.'.' Ca.ty of Chicago to the extent of a million
and a .half dolb'aru. At that time, there was in little of
excess three million dollar deficit. We also passed the
State Support Bill because, under our State Statutes, we're
required to reimbur/e for deficiencies. This has nc been
done for the last five or six years. And: traditionally,
this House has, in every Sessiop except for the last three,
supported the deflciency measure. 'Now, what happened was
that, although the peg levy was passed, the other Bill was.M .
tabled or defeated in the Senate so that we had an increase
in taxes to prdvide some of the funds whieh are required
k 'in the operatien of the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium.! .
'Now, with respect to th'e need, at the present timey the Sani
tarium is in excess of over two milfiop dollars ah.. deficie cy,two million, t4zo Lundred thousand... two hundred and nine
thousand dollarse' Ah.. the hundred and fifty ah... The
ope million, five hundred thousand dollars, provided by this
Amendment, will n(8L even cover the present deficiency. Nowe
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the ah.. sanitarium is presently operating with more than
thirty thousand out-patients every year. So, the need is
still present. Now. I have letters from the ah . . Municipal
Tuberculosis ah.. Organization in ah. . Cook,county ah.. sup-
porting the ah.. the thrust of this measure. The ah.. Insti
tution ah.. presently ah. . has approximately seven to eight
thousand in-patients a year. So, by no means, have we ah. .
cured the problem but we are .still treating this dread di-
sease on a more scientific basis and on a basis in the Chica o
Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium of the most minimum costin the Country for operating this kind of a Institution orany Hospital Institution. Now, I think, that with the ah ..
ah.. merit ah.. of the situation and the fact that we did ah .pass the ah.. Peg bevy Bill
, that we ought to meet the'qommi -
ments of this State with referenee to ah. . deficiencies.
And, that every Member of this House ought to support ah..this Amendment because the Cook
. . . the Sanitarium is servici gthe Area of Cook .. . of Chicago .and of Cook County ah . . inthe manner of.. of medical caree
''
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does
the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman from
cooi, Representative collins-''
P. W. Collins: ''Yes, Mr . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen ofthe House, the last Amendment
, that we just adopted, as Isaid earlier and as other speakers stated
, was needless and
was rejected by the Department. And. this one is even moreridiculous, not only to the Department state that they didn''
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l5.
want itv but this House ah... this Legislature took this ver
item out two years ago and allowed Chicago to raise their
. levy to support ah.. this Institution. Furthermore, Chidago
wasn't even interested enough in this ah.. Amendment to send
a representative for the Ap/topriations Committee asking
for this money. don't know who thought this up, but it
wasn't Chicago and it wasn't the Department. Again, we're
saying, here's mohey you donlt need and don't want. I'thinkiiI it's ridiculous that we should ah . . add to Apprcpriation Bil sI
in such a hazard manner. ' And, aéain, wouM urge the ah..
the defeat of this Amendment-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not, ..
The gentleman from Cook, Representative Moore,-wish to. close ''
D A Moore: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move the previous questidn.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The previous question has been moved.
All thos.e in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no'
the 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Lechowicz, to close the debate.''..A
T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle-
men of the House, in regards to the last speaker, he's com-
pletely in error because the Municipal Tuferculosis Sanitari m
provided the necessary justification for this expenditure.
Dr. Yoder, in the Committee, stated that no one contacted
him. I told him this was a fiscal obligation from fiscal
year 1971. I gave him a copy of the letter, at that time,
which was sent to the Department. And, in turn, I gave him
a copy of the letter that substantiated these costs to me to
... q.. $'.( A .k ,,.... ) '% lj . '? '
,'cv'....6 -> y ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yit Vç . t'e. f -vj !,) s v ,q v e: o s 1 u k. , ,. o I s.('' ? n''- ' ' -N: t . ,. H ou s u o er n t( I.n E sc :4 'r A. 'r 1 v cs
. .4' 1 -:cI. . , s%ï .
16 .
day. Not only did I give it to Dr. Yoder, I also gave it to
the Chief Sponsor of the bill in complete courtesy. But,
basically, this is ah.. a one million. five hundred thousand
. dollar deficit in the Chicago Municipal Tuberculosis Sani-
tarium resulted because the State discontinued the fiscal '
1971 the line item appropriations for the... for these reaso s.
I hope that this House adopts this Amendment to this Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The kuestion ise 'shall Amendment
No. 3, to House Bill 4102 be adopted?'. All those in favor
signify by saying 'aye'. Does the gentleman wish a Roll Ca1 ?
All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'e the opposed by
voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the mcord.
On this question, there are 76 'Ayes' 59 'Nays' and Amend-
ment No. 3, to House Bill 4102 was adopted. Are there fur-
ther Amendments? Third Réading. House Bill 4133..'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4133, a Bill for an Act to auth r-
ize the Director of the Department of Transportation to make
a feasibility study and report with respect to locations ofA
the construction of bridges across the Mississippi River.
Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?
Third Reading. House Bill 4295.'1
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4295. a Bill for an Act in rela
tson to the payment of grants to enable the elderly to acqui e
and retais private housing and make an appropriation in conn c-
tion therewith. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee
Amendments.''tI
.' ? b. ..( -'> Vrh G E N E 11 A L A S S E M 11 L Yli Q '-k'; ; rx)')) svxvs os Iuujxols. o. . .. ' .(j)/J: - ,, . os s ceasscsjvxv 1 v cs. > u o kl 5 E
. 7 q é7- .
l7.
Rep. .qathur A..lpelcser: ''Are there Amehdments from the floor?
Thlrd Reading- Representative Mann, do you seek recogni....
rnlrd Reading. House Bill 4478.'1
Fredriç B. Selckqi ''House Bill 4478, a Bill for an Act to=a..< . . .
amxn' d and resr:ction Section 3 and to amend Section 13 of and
to add SectiG); 7.l to 'The Illinois Industrial Development
Aûthority Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee
AlpîuAdments . ''
Rep . Ytu-thur Tccicser : ''Are there Amendments f rom the f loor?
Third Reading. House Bill 4606 . ''
Fredric B. Selcko': ''House Bill 4606. a Bill for an Act to
authorize the 'Department of Transportation to construct
channel and other improvements in and along Pox River in
South Elgin. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee
Amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?
Third Reading.. House Bill 4636 .1.
FredHic B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4636, a Bill for an Act to makeA '
an appropriation to provide for the ordinary and èontingent
expenses of th- Commission created by an Act to creake a
Commission to survey and study problems pertaining to water-
ways, drainage, fluid, andsoforth. .second Reading of the
Bi1l. No Committee Amendments.''
.Rep. Arthur A. Te7cser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?
Third Reading. House Bill 4661.''
Fredric B. Selckez ''House .Bill 4661, a Bill for an Act to amen
section 6 of tbe 'Illinois Horse Racing Act'. Second Readin
'Xux . * - - '; ZJ . '-=. - 7.hx . . / p . v , : ' f l # . N E R A ta A s s E M B L Yr. ' . . J .1; t 1 ' s . . .*/ .. . . ST A Y E': O F 1 L t. ' ê; Ch ' S' & *1 , J' ' :1 o u s c o F' Iv E P' Ia c s e: :4 T n. 'r I v E7 s'V. . %.x*' # (; ' .. .
l8.
of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Ah . . amend House
Bill 4661 by adding after Line on Page the fo'llowing:
'Section This Act takes effect July 1. 1972:.'61 .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Kane, Representa-
tive Waddell.''
R. B. Waddell: ''Move adoption of the Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsqr: ''Is there any discussion? If not, the
gentleman offers to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1.
to House Bill 4661. All in favor of the adoption signify
by saying 'aye'. the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.
Are there further Amendments? House Bill 4667..'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4667, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation to the Secretary of State. Second Reading
of the Bill. No Committee Apendments-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the flobr?
Third Reading. House Bill 4668.'.
Fredric B. Selcke: nHouse Bill 4668e a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation to the State Scholarship Commissibn. Secon
MReading oè the Bill. No Committee Amendments- ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?
Third Reading. House Bill 4676.''
Fredric Selcke: ''House Bill 4676, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses
of the Joint Legislative çommission on Economic Advisors.
Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?
Third Reading. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill l33 .''
. s Ar ' '..'' x v. j; * f v. ': A.N .y N' ? î.b, ;( :-,n> ek ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' i'- ''ç--,y.t ) ,'.r'. ) ,..c- .( sv . v .: o r , u u , p, o , sV' ' %W
'
%* ''''..:L c ''', .
' 19.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1331, dn Act to provide for t e
ordinary and contingent expenses of the Staté Employees
Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Tefcser: ''Senate Bill 1394.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1394. a Bill for an Act to
make an appropriation for the construction of a State Libra
Building. First Readim of the Bill.''I
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1397.,'
Fredric B. Selcke: nSenate Bill 1397, appropriation for the
expenses of the Secretary of State. First Reading of the
Bill . ''.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1400...
Fredric B. Selcke: 1'1400, a Bill for anqAct to make an appro-
priation to the Sec:etary of state. First Reading of the
Bill. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1401.'1
Fredric B. Selcke: '11401, a Bill for an Act to make an appro-
priation to the Secretary of State. First Reading of theA '
Bill.'1
Rep. A rthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1418..'
Fredric B. Selcke: '11418, a Bill for an Act to make an appro-
priationoa. deficiency 'aperopriation for the Election Laws
Commission. First Reading of the B111.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1425.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1425, a Bill for an Xct to mak
an appropriation for the expenses of the Department of
' Revenue. Pirst Reading of the Bill.''
.=
, t z .y E It A j- A s s E M B 1- Y, . ... .m> s j ; I.: N,
.b k.-t-i ., k..,t,) svavs os luu,sjolso y
'
.y ' y. . 2 -J: ' . l..:. . ' HD Ll SC o F r: E: PIT er t;t: AIT A.T d V ES# N w x?' .-J.i: e'i' ' .
. . '
2c.Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1459
.'.
Fredric Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1459, an Act concerning the
powers of Corporations authorized to accept and executetrusts, andsoforth .
'First Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1465.5'
Eredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1465, a Bill for an Act to
amend the 'Civil Administrative Code'. First Reading of
the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1505.'.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate'Bill 1505, a Bill for an Act to
amend a Section of the 'Uniform Commercial Code'. FirstReading of th e Bi1l.
''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1571.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1571, a Bill for an Act, to
amend an Act requiring hospitals to render emergency sërvice.
Ah.. First Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1576..1
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 15764 a Bill for an Act to mak
an appropriation relating to the 'Strip Mine AcquisitionAct'. Pirst Reading of the Bill
.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Sehate Bill 1583.''
Fredric selcke: '.1583, an appropriation to the Department
of Revenue. Pirst Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1589.1.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''1589, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'CiviAdministrative Code'. First Reading pf the Bil1
.''
Repo.Arthur A. Telcser: ''Take it out of the record. Repre-
. xb% l ::a. .., zk % jj * r. .' '
.1--,.> 17 G E N E R A L A S S E M 1$ L Yi'. *c,..,. . . '...-: ) sva v s o e , u
u , ,. e , s' L?.=: ' .1 aouss oe nceeussa-rxxlvss
.21.
sentativeqshea, for what pu rpose do you riser'
G. W. Shea; ''Did you read Senate Bill 15897''
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: understand that the Sponsor wanted
it held so welll take it out of the record.'' '
G. W. Shea: ''Alrighte.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1596.,'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1596. a Bill for an Act to mak
iation fo'r the expenses of the Judicial Advisoryan appropr
Council. Pirst Reading of the Bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill ï597.''Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1597, an appropriation to the
Department of Business and Economic Development . First
Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate bill 1603.''
Fredric B. Selcke: t'Senate Bill 1603, an appropriation to the
Agri... Agricultural Commodity Marketing Study Commission.
First Reading of the Bil1.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1587. '..M .
Fredric Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1587, an appropriation for the
expenses of the Legislative Advisory Committee on Public
Assistance. First Reading of.the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''On the order of House Bills Third
Reading, appears House Bill 4129. Ah. . the Sponsor indicate
that he wishes to have House Bill 4129 returned to the order
of- Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does
the gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, House bill
41/9 will be put on the order of Second Reading for the pur-
AJ'.I * ' ê.' g
'
'.48 -7172 '3 G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Yr. ..;.j , .j? ? ;- c ! k.&. .) svxa.c orr I uuI 'qojs. ç. vk .,;. ' .(;,?..r: ' ' -.,' aooss oe asen csc el.r av' v ss
.,. , q ; **...' !'!'.'. . .
22.
poses of an Amendment. The Clerk witl read the Amendment,
please.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK.. Amendment No. 2, Burditt, amend House
Bill 4129. as ahended, by House Amendment No . l by deleting
the last two Lines of Section l and inserting in lieu there-
of the following: 'For Court Reporting Costs - $373.800.
Total- $952,300..''I
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Burditt-''
G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House,. ah.. the Senate has reduced the appropriation for the
Pollution Control Board Emergency ah. . Deficiency Appropria-
tion by $25,000 because they've'taken so long to get this
Bill through that the Pollution Control Board is not going
to expend that $25,000 during the current biennium. However
they are still going to have to have the hearings ah. . that
were intended to be paid for by that $25,000. So, all this
Amèndment does is add the $25.000 into the regular appropriaxM '
tion for next year for the Pollution Control Board. The
total amount of money, therefore, for the deficiency appro- . priation and for the ah.. appropriation for next year remain
the same. The ah.. Representative Lechowicz and Representa
tive Regner have b0th agreed that I lovy the Amendment. And
I move its adoption.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lls there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.
' House Bill 4129. A11 in favor of the adoption signify by
: x s.'.%%%t 1k r'A'
. ? bg cykr % G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y., kr: . àl ç. /.-t J .r' ) : s v A. w c o e. I u u I sl o . st
,?.-:. ' ' .... souss os ssescscxxax'lw ss.j .
2 3 .
J;aà'.'i II.J ' aya ' , the opposed ' no ' the Amendment is adopted .#
A r.t' nlrther M endments ? Third Reading . On the order
of Collt:ti.tutional Amendments - First Reading, appears Senate
Joil: lkcsolution' 62 . ''
c2 i l ke : ''Senate Joint Resolution Number 62 Consti-Fre r c L) . se c
tutional Amendment. First Reading.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Second Reading. House Bills Second
Reading. House Bill 4663..,
Fredric B. selcke: ''House Bill 4663, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction
Second. Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Wait... Wait... Letls.. Let's take
it out of the record, would you; Mr. Clerk, please? Repre-sentative Hanahane for what purpose do you rise, Sir?'.
T. J. Hanahan: just looked up at the Calendar, Mr. Speaker,
and or up at the Board there and you had 62, House Bill 62
on Second Reading. What was that?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lThat was Senate Joint Resolution 62.,'
. T . J . Ha nahan : '' 6 2 ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We read a First Time and it went
to the order of Second.''
T J Hanahan: ''And n'ow it's going to the order of Second
Reading? When will it be heard on Stcond Reading, Mr.
Rep. A. Telcser: ,.1. . I assunte when the speaker calls
i t . l l tf l t I 1. . Sponsor requests it# Representative Hanahan . ''
. r1,. t'f .' l 4, 1 l I.j l j. 1 I l : ''Well does it take the nom al course of three. #
......3:''. ..,. I ).'.: .$ * '- .y> & '-';x ? c E x E R A j. A s s E M j; j. Y( 'q'f $ ' . .
'
. f 'jkj ' ' -, - ) s'rx're o e. I uu ' st o I s
k* N4! . . ' '
. '. ' el o w s p: o lr r4 s r. a s s c el 'r a v 1 v e: s' . . z 517.
, . .
24.Legislative Days so tomorrow it would be on Second Reading?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''On the Calendar. It could be calleda Second Time. Yes, Sir-
''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Today or tomorrow, sira''
Rep-' Arthur A. Teleser: ''Tomorrow. ToiorroW on Second Reading ''
Hanahan: ''Thank you. I have an Amendvent tc offer onit and I just want to make sure they're aware of HouseBills Third Readinq. House Bill 4083.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4083, a Bill for an Act to pro-
vide for the ordinary and èontingent expenses of the Depart-ment of Aercnautics. Third Reading of the Bill
.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser? nLet's take that out of the record,Mx. Clerk. House Bill 4244
.''
Fredric Selcke: ''House Bill 4244, a Bill for an Act to
authorize the secretary of State to issue identification'cards. Third Reading of the B1ll.u '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#tive Merlo-''
J. Merlc: 'lMr.-speaker and Members of the Housey existing toda. more than ever before in our life-time is the seriou: proble
of identification . And, because of the complexity of our
society, we must make identification the right of everyonerather than the privilege of thcse who drive aùtomobiles.Currently, the drivers license is the most a
ccepted means ofidentification . This measure calls for the Secretary ofState to issûe an identifieation card tp any Illinois reside t
eregardless of age, who applies and submits the required in-
.. . ) * 1 > raa.z/> . rnn 'V G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yv . J :t .. u-.. zJ. V
'
j . . ' * . . . ) s v a
'
x a o s I u u l sl o 1 s. ; Tï @.* ' z H (; U S E Q F lT C P Fl E S d bl T A T I *' e: S. 41 x'. -pf*
'
25.
formation. The card would be valid for five years and the
cost would be $5.00. Among thosee who would benefit most
are the younq, the elderly, the physically handicapped, the
minority groups and persons with difficulties in speaking .
English. Secretary of State, John Lewis, endorses and sup-
ports this proposal. And stating, and I quote, 'It fills
a long standing need especially for persons not qualified
to hold drivers licenses to have an effective and legal:i prove of identification'. Mr. Speaker, I hope that I getI .
the necessary votes to pass this Bilz. I don't know of any
opposition.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man from Cook. Representative Juckett-''
Juckett: ''Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a
couple of questionsa''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
R. S. Juckett: ''What is the purpose of this identification?
I mean, is it to cash checks or ah..M
Merlo: ''TY cash checks, to establish credit. There are man
youngsters, as you well know, who need identification, parti u-
larly around the campuses. It's been called to my attention
that in order to attain a means of identification. There is
today, a black market on some of our campuses where some of
the students have to pay five to ten dollars to attain one
of these things. Older students. who happen to look young,
fine it impossible, as I said before, to cash checks or to
gain entry into adult movies, to go into bars without any
.. .4 ' A 'vi .' '. xt: ' ;; rtg. ... .f* $ .:;.x: vt . j%'?>s kï G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Y
l f . 4 . r . J r ,/h , j s v . v s o s 1 u. u , ,q o 1 sVV 'Y' '?- ,* . .. 11 otl S E o F 1: E PH ESE NY A T I N! esC! J i J k. . ' ! e%*M.'' ''.é . . i ' . . . ' '
26.
identification. There is a means. . . There is a problem of
frustration for these young people. In our Area there are
Ethnic Groups who find it difficult because of the problem
of dialogue in communication. And, I think, if they had
this means, it would ah.. sort of resolve one of the great
problems that exist.''
R. S. Juckett: ''Did you happen to read ah. . this week's ah..
or last week's issue of the U- S. News and World Reports?''
J. Merlo: ''No, I have not-''
R. S. Juckett: ''Welle I think, you'll find in there that the .
banks are starting to solve this problem by themselves with-
out any cost to Government and without any involvement in
Government in that they are now issuing checks with pictures
of the checkholder on the checks themselves so that there
would be positive identifiéation at the time that the check
was passed or used for identification. Soathis, I think, th1
banks are doing it themselves and theylre eliminating any
need for any other possible identification source so that
there can be very little ah. . bad check cashing for identifi
cation purposes. As a matter of fact, the banks have indi-
cated that the losses through bad checks have dropped con-
siderably so that that problem is very little of a problem
any more for those people using it. Now, it's my under-
standing in that ah.. the person, who wants this identifica-
tion, and it is solely for identification and it's not for
the purpose of being able to drive a car. And, I'm surprise
1 that the young people Want this. Becauseto Aear you say ,
, .$ % . .'>J7 '% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y';' kr-f . 7*- :) svxvs os Iuu,ao,s@? J> .r7 . .* % ê. . . ? 11 o kl s E o F lR &; F' R E s C :1 T 8 T 1 v EE S.< : %* .t ' .'* 7...'.i.ï 1 -.
'
27it's my understanding that the young people are driving andgetting their drivers licenses in great numbers
. Ah.. it's
my understanding that ah . . you can send for this identification by mail. .Is that correcta''
J. Merlo: ''You would have to. . . . . . Bob, you've asked about
ten questions. Now, do you want 'me to answer them all orv . .
''
R. S. Jpckett: ''The only question that I asked was, is it true
that you can send this for this identification by maila''
Merlo: ''You will have to make the necessary application.
You would give the same information. practicallye that you
would do when applying for a drivers license. There would
be a photo attached to the identification card. On your
other question, I know that yoû've made mention and I cer-
tainly don't want you to influence the Members of the Housewith some of your statements. You did say that this could
be a cost to Government. I might inform you, if anything,
this would bring additional revenues into the General Reven ePund. The Secretary of State antieipates as high as four
A 'million would make application for this identification card.At five dollars, it would bring in twenty million dollars.The cost of administering this Bill would be approximatelytwo million dollarb. You've talked about banks
. You're
talking about a limited number of pHople. I'm talking about
the elderly, the senior citizens, the handicapped, who don't
have a bank account or don't have a checking account. Youmay be more affluent but thdre are people who do not
. . do noeven have a bank account or a savings account
. These are
.. .
'
rt (; '. . . tsv.. ; ' . . . .,,. / '' h. z .,=,nv r G E s E R A L A S S E M 13 L Y? .? t(.-. :' 2 ,.. . f.<w -ç. < . l ; ' ! * s 'r A. 'r k: o p. , u u 1 N o I st / '=G ' Y. g'' tz . uousc oe- nt:p'la csEe4'rA'rl v e:s, s%* 'f t' s. ' 1.:.. -
27.
the people that I'm interested in .''
R. S. Juckett: ''We1l# Lad... ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and
Gentlemen of the House: I think, this is another intrusion,
by Government: into the private affairs of their people.
We're talking... If we're talking about senior citizens.
I kncw that the vast majority cf the people. who are sixty-
five years of age or older are on Medicare and they have a# .
Medicare Card and they have identification . I think, if
you'rq talking about the young people, koulre talking about. people who have drivers licenses and identification of that
sort ah.. where they can be. If wedre talking about College
Campuses, every single College Campus, that I know of, issue
an identification system for each and every student tkat
goes to their sehool. I thinke that the Sponsor of this Bi1
is over-stating the amount of people that are going to make
use of it. And, even is a1l of these people did make use
of it, I think, it is not a function of Government. I think
that we should get on with the business of Government and
leave the identification of the People to private sources.
The banH are doing it themselves for the purpose of cashing
checks. They have cut down the loses of bad checks tremendo s-
1y. And, they nov state that thereais very little trouble
from this standpoint when the people use this new system.
The elderly are being taken care of by the Medicare System.
They have their means of identificau on. I think: that we
ought to get out of it and.. I think, we ought to leave it topri'vate enterprise to do their own form of identificati
on.
. x&) 4 Yz.' 1 2 , <,*7n 64 '. G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y! ' g y) ..j . ;' lx jt bf ','-=. . 1. 5T A'F E o F l LL ' >' o 1 s
* %s'ef . '' H ou sc o v n. c p R E s c N v A.'r , v cs '
28.
And, if the people are desirous of being identified, I'm
sure that they can do it through their charge cards. through
k 'thezr drivers license, through their medicare and other .
cards. And, I don't think that, if it's solely for the pur-
Pose Df identification, that the State Government should be
making a Profit On thcse that don't have a means of identifi
cation. And, I urge a 'no' vote.''
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Dan o'Brien.''
D. J. O'Brien: ''Ah.. will the Sponsor yield to a questicn?
Jack, ah.. do you think that, if this Bill passes, that the
ill be no need fo' r ah. . the proposed ah . . Study Commissionw
to look into the feasibility of a picture on a drivers
license? Do you think that that will become unnecesgary
if this Bill should pass?l'
J. Merlo: ''Representative O'Brien, I'm speaking of those
dividuals that do not qualify for a drivers license. As I
mentioned before, this is for the elderly that doh't drive,
the handicapped that don't drive. There are many young
people that don't drive. There are ethnic ah.. ah.. indi-
viduals that don't drive that are difficult to establish
credit. And, this is a means, as I see it, to helping
these people-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Repre-
sentative Borchers.''
W. Borchers: ''I'd like to ask the Spohsor a questien. This i
permissive, is it not?''
.. s. ..-ç A >' $,a... a.: . za? : e/ ..5. ,ï -71> : i ï G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yî fj Q-jkt ,
'
rx) Lo ) sv w a. s o.s l t- u t st o I sî . -f . / 'r. ' .* . # . u o t; S E o F f: E yp R y; s t: pl T A, T I v e: s'! ' %*%*'6.11 '''d' - --- .... . - . .- - . . . .- - . - . .. . . .....
.
zgMerlo: ''It is. Tt is voluntary
. I.mean, you don't have to.
You don't have to apply if you don't wish . You could do it
on your own-''
W. Borchers: ''Very well. I'd like to speak. with permission,on the Bill a moment-''
:Rep . Arthur A . Telse z.r : '' Prcceed: S ir . ''
W. Borchers: ''I've been connected with numbers of businessesland I can see wherr
r since ah.. the ah. . individual wishingthis, ah.. has to pay for the State Board Identification
and I can see wher= ah. . ah.. they.. it's a permissive thing
that there is a nccd ah . . for the business point of view wit
the increasing numter of people and ah. . and the difficulti s
in ascertaining a1l the facts. I ah., hate to ah.. to be
opposed to my good friend, Mr. Juckett, Representative
Juekett, who I see generally votes along with me on things.But ah.., being interested in business myself
, I can quicklysee that this an excellent idea. If 'it returns some moneyto. thie State. it does something else . It gives positive
-':identif icaùton ah. . State supported and backed up by the
State as an individual. And, if there is a need for it,
everybody does not have proper identifidation. Ah.. I don't
want to go to the Europqan fot% s: in France andqEnland and
other Nations where you have to have.this man. . these things.
But, there's one thing that you have to say for it. Theyt
do have official iclentification over there. And, there's
no question, who who and ke don't have it here. And, thiis a step in the rs.ght direction for the businessman to know
. ' . . .. ' . .-, rkss) $1 r bvv . .:'t$ ?J e-''ips e ' G - '' @.' 'E R A L A S S E M 8 L YîI s.E.-7kt.. -f -; -t.) svxvu os . uu,ao,s
. 'Qf .T' * / . 'lty-u; s c o g' PR c e a c s c N T a 'r I v c s, + . '' '' ' * * *% ''':! )'% ..
30.who he is dealing with
. So. I think, we ah. . should supportit '1
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representà-tive Caldwell .
'' '
L. A. H. Caldwell: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in suppork
of this Bill. It's a very intelligent, simple ah.. solutionto a 1ot of social problems. It simply says that people
,
who do not qualify or have drivers license, should have somedefinite means of identificati
on. Representakbe ah . . TheSponsor indicated that this Bill will b
e an added serviceto certain segments of our population in our society tosimplify them identifying themselves for various purposes.
I think, this is an excellent Bill. And, it's very difficul
for me to understand the opposition.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from' Cook, Represehta-tive Duff.''
B. B. Duff: 1'Wil1 the Sponsor yield to a questiona''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '$He indicates he will.''B. B. Duff: ''AY .. Representative Merlo
, ah.. I noticed thatthere are penalties here in the Bill ah.. where it says,'a viôlation of the Act is a misdemeanor lest declared to be
. a felony by other Laws of the State '. And, then it goes onto ah.. ah.. describe convictions
, andsoforth. And yet, it
never actually sets penalties. Ah.. how would you provide
for the penalties ah. . and to what reference do you have whe
you say, 'a felony if otherwise provided by another Law ofthe Stateda''
,? .b ''nnk'h G E N E R A L A s s E M B t. Y( :( .: -6 $:( ?' ) -. i : r'*) 7 ) s v a v. c o e 1 u u 1 s o I sï . .1.. /.Y. ' *, i sousc o s rzseacsc--ravl v e:sXs:: ' ' ve ,.'.i2 . ... '
. . 3l.
J. Merlo: ''Representative Duff, all I can tell you is, if thisBill was drawn up by the personnel of the Secretary' of State
,
I would assume that it is drawn in ah . . in sort of a ah.. .
a pattern of the present 'Drivers License Act'. And, the'
only thing that I can say to your qzestidn is that it wouldbe ah.. administered according to the Law
. And. that would
be it . ''
B. B. Duff: ''But, it does say a 'misdemeanor'' ah. .
''
J. Merlo: ''Yes, it does .''
B.. B. Duff: '''unless decla/ed to be a felcny by other Laws'.Now, the two questions that I have are, what provision for
penalty as a misdemeanor and how does it relate for example,#
Uo the ah.. Code of Corrections? And, furthermore, are you
aware of any cther Laws which declare the violation of this
Act to be a felonya''
'' ' d that thb Criminal Code' does'J. Merlo: It s my undekstandi g
provide that, if there is no penalty for a misdemeanor, that .
! it would be the same as falsifying a drivers license. I'm
not a Lawyerr, Brian, and I really don't know the legal back-Cxound * ''
B B. Duff: ''Well ah.., I.. I would ah. . be curious to know wh
you feel that it would be the same as. . as ah.. viclating
a drivers license since ah . . the Section of the Code doesn't
refer to the ah.. drivers license ah . . Sections of the Secre
tary of State's Office. Is that not correct?''
J. Merlo: ''Itos my understanding that the 'Criminal Code' in
its language menticns a felonious act %ut does not provide
.. soja .'rf..' t. : q. t .gt> k A G E N E R A 1
. A s s E M B L, Yl i- 7 .. k'-'s .'1 ).&,. tj svxvs os , uj-txo,sî , -. .?
. t,? .r. ' ',/ sousc os 1. cea ésc-vavsv cs* ' v* .''t td d .. !.* '- ! . .
32.
the penalty. Now, what trànspires after that I would imagin
would be a question of a hearing and ihe adequate iaw being
administered-''
B. B. Duff: ''Well now, this Bill, as I read it. and I'm asking
it does not appear to change the Drivers License Act nor '
does it appear to change the 'Criminal Code'. Ah.. apd I'm
trying to catch the connection between the penalty section
and ah.. those vague references that it makes to possibly
other Statutes. Ah.. 'a violation of this Act is a misde-
mednor' it says, and yet. it doesn't refer to penalties.#
Ah.. and then, it further says, eunless declared to be a
felony by other Làws of the State'. And. my second question
to you was, are you aware of any other Laws of the State
that would declare this to bq a felony?''
J. Merlo: ''Brian, I do not.. The only thing that I could tell
you is that ah.. I would certainly ah.. solicit the Secretar
of State to render an opinion. And if necessary, the prope
amendance will be put on the Bill in the Senate.''
B. B. Duff: ''Well, the ne'xt question that I have is that I not
on the list of costs, it says, 1an original card will be
$5.001. And. 'a renewal card...', and I pre.. and I presume
or 'a duplicate card will be $3.00% if.. if somebody loses.
the first one, a renewal care is $5.00. And ah.., this is
recorded annually or fivq yearsa''
J. Merlo: ''After every five years.''
B. B. Duff: ''And ah.., a $5.00 feea''
Merlo : ''Tlzat ' s correct ''C
t. ( ,) ; 'm > rc ' G E x E R A ja A g g E yj jj j. yi/ % - . q 1'. .4 * 1 w )Sx-sx. i ( , g r : ' . , . * T A' T E o ' e' 1 L t. l 1% o ' S. . e, ou se- o c R e:es cs y: hl v xv 1 v ss. . . .u..s
33.B. B. Duff: ''Now are you aware of the fack that th
e proposed#ah.. Bill to ask for a picture on the drivers license ah..states, as a result of the studies that were conducted onthe information that was garnered
. that it would cost some-.thing like $.11 a year ah. . to put a pikture on a driverslicense. And, in light of that, I would like to ask why
do you feel that it's necessary aho., unless there is someah.. taxing premise or basis for this
, to have a fee of
$5.00 instead of what would be probably more apt, $.5079.
Merlo: ''Welle first of all, it is a voluntary service. Thequestion of identification, as far as the photo is concernedwas brought up in Committee. And, it seem to be. . . has beenrakher the opinion of all of those present that
, in ordçr foan identification eard to truly serve its person... its pur-poses, it must include an identi. . . or à picture. The Secretary of state informs me that it would be a cost to the De-partment of about $.50 for the processing of a photo
.''
B. B. Duff: ''Ah.. right.' And, $.50 for the processing and the
fee of $5.00 which 'is, of course, an inordinate cost, I thin ,you would agree. The question
. . The next question that Iwould ask, is the appropriation on this Billw .. Ah.. is itstili on the Bill or has it been amended and put on a separa eBill?''
J. Merlo: nIt's been amended and put on a separate... in aseparate Bill. And, by error
, I neglected to ask thatah.. House Bill 466. . 4669 be included as a companion Bill
whiçh r will do immediately after the passage of this Bil1.''
/F ?b.. q-Tm'' X G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytc 'k .f -ew.lk
s1 o,k
.. svxv.s o'r luuts'o'.t y? T*. .q .* .> . H o tl s c o F' R c !> f4 c s c 14 'r A. 'r j v s: s: . , .. NT)!..Z2 !
. .
'
34.
B. Duff: ''And then ah.., the appropriation on that Bill is
the same as this, $2.000,000?''
J. Merlo : ''This is correct . ''
B. B. Duff: ''AH.. then. would ask why, if these are figures
from somebody in the Secretary of State's Office for a syste
far more complicated than that proposed for the picture on
the Drivers License Bill-'is the appropriation. $2,000.000
when they said that they need seven and a ialf million dol-lars ah.. for the other Bill? And, in fact, it was.. as a
result of ah.. the fiscal note, was declared to be considera
bly less. Ah.. can you explain that discrepancy?''
J. Merlo: ''Yes.. Ah.. first of all: this is sort of a simpli-
fied sys tem or process where the drivers license would be
more complicated. I understand that there's a question of
i in of the wholq system where it desolves d/iv/rscomputer z glicenses. It involves the search as far as the Drivers
License ah.. Applicant is concerned. And, all of these, of
course, are additional avenues that had to be pursùed before
a photo could be placed on a drivers license.''
'
B. B. Duff: ''l ah.. would like to speak to the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir.n
B. B.' Duff: ''AK. . first of all, ah.. the System that is referr d
to in the Drivers License Bill is considerably sipp ler than
this using the presently available computerized printouts
and facilities already available. Secondly ah. . . this Billi
does not have in it ah.. any provision for the penalties of
misdemeanors. It further has a cost connected with it of
... .p' x xiiirx....A & *' '.'
:, !. tl7Lk G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y?(- 7t: )yh ii o)t-. .< !) svx'ru 0e. ,uu'ao's$ . ... ' =: ' ' ''. .* $. 1 x I4OQJSC OF REPHEGENTAYIVES*1 bl . ..
.--q. ê. .e
- . . Z * '3 5 .
. L.$5.00 ah . . Uz tae ah . . compared to a $ . 50 cost which puts it
5 7'. tlpc =tD rure of a tax , a considerable tax . And, it furthe .
il seems to mey would put the S'tate of Illinois in connec-
t:l o,a s.. . into contact with . . . . ''
Rep.' Qrthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative Meyer, for what pur-
pose do you rise, sir?''
J. T. Meker: ''A point of order to my Colleague. Isn't therea ',lu-l'me limit on questions and answersa''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Yes. there is, Sir and I've told
Representative Duff that his time is running out.''
B. B. Duff: ''And so, I would add that, it seems to me. that a
Bill like this might very conceivably put ah.. many people
into a situation ah.. by requirements of industry that they
would not really be free not to ask for such a card. But,
would almost be mandated by Commerce ah.. to ask for such
a card. I really feel that, in.terms of simplicity, cost,
ease and the support of the Law En/orcement Officials of th
State of yllinois, that this Bill is not adequate to theproblem that the Sponsor represents. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive J. J. Wolf.''
J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker 'and Members bf the House, ah.. from
vzhat I understand of this Bill when it.was heard in Executi
cammittee, and I voted against it then. It would seem to
me that some of the shortcomings of this Bill, and I know
how well-intentioned the Sponsor is, is that when we apply
for a drivers license, we must do so in person, and with the
.. A
'
k
'
o ' - .....
. ox y .(' .b. ' t '''F> Y G E N E R A L A S S E 5 f B L, Y$< k'r 't''s . $ -,x, f ' '1! ç. . .. ,.. ; - s'rx'rs og l uu1 xojs' - p -r. . . .YVX.....'
.'.e '
. s%h > e 6 0. U.....-S Z . . ? r R f P H ê: S C N 'T A T 1 V E S
36.
forthcoming photograph, that will have to be processed a1l
at one time. I believe that someone can obtain one of thes
identification cards just by sending in, to the Secretary
of State's Officee by mail which, I think, would increase
the chR nces of fraud. Now. a drivers license, chances of
fraud are further cut down because the holder of that drive s
license always runs the risk cf being arrested on a traffic
violation in whici case any fraudulant drivers license in
his possession can be ah.. turned up which can not happen
. . very often in this case unless, aft%r he has already cashed
a bad check frcm some pocr, unsuspecting ah.. merchant.
And finally, I know the Sponsor doesn't intend this but, to
me, has some very strong overtones of a police stake. ' No ,: .: I know it's voluntary at this time but 1111 tell you one.1 'I thing, if I were a member of the minority group, I would
resist this particular Bill with everything in my power.
And, I'm going to vote 'nod-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccck, Representa-.,A'
tive R. Càrter.''
R. A. Carter: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previcus questionoo
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has moved the previous
question. Al1 those in favcr signify by saying 'aye'ê
'
opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, Repre-#
sentative Merlo, to close the debate. Representative Washin -
ton: for what purpose do you rise, Sir?''
H Washington: ''A point of personal privileget As a pleasantinierlude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce the charmi g
., .s x
' . ...eu ;(.. . . tx. :'. 8 t-rr.o G E N E R A t. A s s E M B t. v) .' 6ïg).:. k j.2 M' i t . . 'x b'h 2 sv A. v c o e' l u u I N o 1 s
. (.u 7 r l ' '. el ou ss o p- n. cea e: sc a.r A.'r I v ssnl xl ..' 't . .1 : s!.. .L.... . .
37.
daughter.of Representative Barnes, Miss Vicki Barnes. She's
a recent graduate from grammar school. She's behind us in
the rear. Stand up, Vicki-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative Merloy to close the
debate-''
Merlo: ''Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I1d be in order, at the
present time. to request that House Bill 4669 be included as
a companion Bill ahd heard at the same timea''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gentleman have leave? Will
the Clerk please read House Bill 46:9 a Third Time?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4669, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation for the 'Illinois Identification Card Act'.
Th e d Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Now. the gentleman from Cooke Repre-
sentative Merlo, to close the debate on b0th Bills.n
1 J. Merlo: ''.ln closing, I can only repeat. Currently, the
drivers license is the accepted identification. And, as a
result. people %N o do not drive, experience frustration andA .
discouragement in cashing checks, establishing credit and
other functions where an identification card is required .
his building was or this Bill was supporte'd by Mrs JaneT
Sclunidt of the United Cerebral Palsy Association, by the
senior citizens . And, might mention ah . . passage of this
House Bill 4244 is the most important to our senior citizens .
Also, by W .G .N . Editorial in which it says thate 'it should
not be lost in the shof f le.. This Bill here should be passed ' .
And, Ladies and Gentlemen, I ask that you support House Bill
,. '' ï' w: (jj' ' # :, .:d> q--rrx: c E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y/' 7) b;-.k . .. . ,.. .-. #,.1 x t. .kl . ' : * s'ravs oer l uul-ols.( 2i2' ' - -? .q. . ..' Hou sE o p' IR E: ei'ê cse: -'T' A'T I v cs .4t . ,
.x*..st '. .-''-
t '.
: 5 ,. . . :) t) .
4244 and 4669. ..
. '
j , I j. 1, y sRep. Arthur A. Telcser: The question is, shall House B.Q' q ' . .4*2*4'4 and 4669 pass?' A1l thoge in favor will signify byvoting 'aye' lnd the opposed by voting 'no'
. And, the#
Clerk will take two Roll Calls. Have a11 voted who wished?Take the record. Davis.. 'aye'. Tipsword.. 'aye'. On this
question, there are ll2 'Ayes' 14 'Nayst and these Bills#'
Ywving reùolved the Constitutional majority are hereby de-
ciarad passcd.. House... McMaster.. 'nol. House Bill 4628.,Fredric B. Selcka) ''House Bill 4628
, a Bill for an Act authori
zing Local Units of Government to issue full faith and credi
tax anticipation notes. Third Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage, Representa
tive Hoffman.n
G. L. Hoffman: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen oE the House,House Bill ah.. 4628 is the Tax Anticipation Note Act
.
distributed a memorandum to all of the Members ah. . last wee .
And, sinee that time, I've had no ah.. contact or. . or comme tc* '
.b:' anyone in rqgard to this. I'd just like to point outthat the advantages of the notes over warrants
, of course.is that there's a lower interest rate
. ' These notes would
be issued in the same manner and under the same limitationas a warrant. Ah.. this would save ah
.. the local taxing o
- ' ah.. ah.. Districts a great deal of money in ah
. . interest. It's estimated somewhere in the neighborhood
of $5,000,000 . ': ': a year. Ah.. this Bill is supported by t:e Taxpayer's'
Pederation, the Civic Federation and. . and ah.. I would ask *
.
..r.,> .. , . . . ... . .'
(' .(' ., 7 : nv' , ï . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' ' ' . 'y. ty,. ï .
' - j- .j, / z .
.
'
sj o o s ; 'r oA ; ejy os sfr g lsust-s' sN v! x' Sv j v s s# . e' 'psf '. ..) . *
39.
for your'support alsoo''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The questi n
is, 'shall House Bill 4628 passa'. .All those in favor sign'-
fy by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all '#
voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there
are 144 'Ayes' and nc 'Nays' and this Bill having received
the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Hous
Bill 4286..'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4286, an Att creating a Joint
. Legislative Commission on Economic Xdvisors. Third Reading
of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Regner.''
D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, 1'd like to ask leave to bring 4286 back to Second
Reading for the purposes of an Amendment .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there any objections? Hearing
noney return the Bill to the order of Second Reading and
read the Amendment, please.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK.. Amendment No. 1, Regner, amend House
Bill 4286 on Page 2. Line 1, andsoforth-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Regner.''
D. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House: this is a Bill creating the ah.. Joint Committee
f h Economic Advisors to estimate revenu' e . Ah.. thiso a ..
ffrst Amendment ah.. provides for the ah.. appointment pro-
. .... x ' ..
..' kh * 'â) ' fz/. .:3 ? 4 DXh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y<''-i ') zr..) ': sx xv s o e. , uu, ,-, o , sI ç.... .:... .( z, r:. ' .A . . H o kl S E o F R E P R E S E :4 T A. 'r I V E S .., , .. s. t ë .1 . . . -- - . .. --
'
40.
cedure for Members of the Commission. And, the second part
of it ah.. ah.. is an Amendment providing for vacahcies
on the Commission. And. move for the adoption bf Amendme
No. 1, to House Bill 4286.'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Alright.. Is there any discussion?
If not, the gentleman has offered to move the adoption of
Amendment No. 1. to House Bill 4286. A1l in favor signify
by saying 'aye', opposed 'np', the Amendmen't is adopted.
Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. Are there
further Amendments? Oh1 Back to Second-''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2. Regner, amend House Bill
4286 on Page 3 by .deleting Lines 20 through 23# andsoforth.''
Rep- Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genkleman from Cook Representa-#
tive Regner.''
D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of tie'
A dmeni takes ihe approfriation out of' theHouse, this menBill because there is another or a separate appropriation
Bill. And, this is in line with ah. . with the New'constitu-Mkion. And, it also renumbers various sections ah. . thatls
' necessary to ah.. ah.. keep the Bill technically correct.
And, I move for its adoption.''
Rep.'Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amenjment No. 2,
to House Bill 4286. All in favor of the adoption signify
by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted.#Are there further Amendments? Third Reading
. On the order
oY' Consideration Postponed, appears House Bill 1856. The
ru'' v. $: * .1)2 ''''ff%'j'rj'Q< G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L YNs::. y , .., )1 v.-,k ..... ' : s'rxvu orz
.1 uulexols. *. L.,z. rl . . ' .
s o u s c o s s s e a s s c sj x A. v I v e: s
* . o : . 41
B?Al has been read a Third Time. And, the gentleman from
Cook, Representative Scariano.''y 7 '
A. Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill
1856 permits Junior Colleges to ah.. levy an Educational
Fymd Rate and a Building Rate commensurate with that of
U 'o City of Chicago. that is seventeen and a half cents per
educational purposes and the five cents for building pur-
IGçsesu A.h.. there is provisions for a backdoor referendum .
'zhp:, thqre'is provision that ah. . there may not be a ah..
lfevy of more than three cents for educational purposes or
cwta qont for building purposes during any one year. This
wopld affect only about eight nr nine Junior Colleges. All
the rest of the more than three' dozen Junior Colleges wouldn't
:/2 affected because.they have rates either commensurate with
this rate or higher than it. But, there are eight or nine
i lleges who desperately need this money.
And, thos'eJun or Co
Colleges are Thornton, Prairie State' Dupage, Parkland Rock# '.Valley, Joliet, McHenry. Kishwaukee and Waubonsee
. They neeA ''
tltis desperately in order to keep operations going. And, I
would urge your support of this Bill-''
Rep. Arphur A. Telcser: ''Is there any disèussion? The gentle-
man from Cook, Repbesentative Bill W>lsh- ''
W. D. Walsh: 'Yell, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, I would question the gentleman's last statement
berause the people in, at least, two of these Districts, tha
, he mentioned, h'ave within thb last six weeks turned down
increases such as this Bill would ah . . do without referendum
. .u .w E-N - N . .z ewk. . '71 -'ll'sv 'J'/' ''.<'r?> '.. : ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YQ'.t:*, . . 7-.,, j ' svwvc o.r , k-u,o,o Istst-gy ? i',,: . . ....w .- -
sowss .,, aseasscxvsvlvss'<t'' cJr%7.'-
42.
without direct referendum. Now, I suggest to you that this
is a very poor time to be talking about a tax increase with-
. out a direct referendum considering 'the great enthusiasm tha
greeted the Bill that C. L. Mccormick ah. introduced in ah'..
and the enthusiasm the Press met this Bill with. And, that
ah.. many of our Members ah.. ah. . talked at some length
the other day about ah.. how badly needed this Bill was. No p
at this moment: we'are flying right in the face of that in
considering exactly the opposite propcsition. And, that is,
let's face it, a tax rate increase Uithout referendum. I
would submit to you, as many of you have heard before, that
there has been in the memory of anyone that I've talked to
just one backdoor referendum that has been successful over
the past twepty years. And, to say that there's a back-
door referendum on this. is clouding the issue . I ah..
strongly urge that you vote 'no' on this Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does
the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman fromve
Cook, Representative Scariano.''
Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, all I know is, is tha: the people from Mr. Walsh's
District: primarily: the Dupage College people, have been
pressing vigorously for this. And, just this morning, theTeachers at Prairie State Junior College in Chicago Heights
went on strike. And, the only reason why the Teachers can't
get the kind of money that theyire looking for over there
is because the Ccllege simply doesn't have Now, if
, ''/ 1. (jj * K/. svlz.'zr;>' G E N E R A t
. A S S E M B L Yg k)- .t ; c,,..u ùk ' v . .'J. - s >' A. T f: Ch F 1 L. L l e4 o 1 S1 / '=.''':' w soqjss o s a sea cs p: sj'r A,v I v cs* u ..t. ,. r-xr'J-:.* ---
43.
we're to avoid these donnybrooks and give the Teachers the
kind of money that their lntitled to and to give these Board
Members the kind of money that they need to do the job that
. they were elected to do, it would spem to me, that we should
give them this Bill. The safeguards are there. There is
a backdoor referendum and there is a limitation of three
centg per year on'the Educational Pund Rate and one cent on
the Building Rate. And, this is just exactly what the City
of Chicago has. I don't know why the Junior Colleges out-
side the City of chicago should be in a more unfavorable '
or disadvantageous position than the City Colleges in Chicag .
I thinky that ah.. we should put the amount parity and 1et
these Colleges ah the Board o.f Trustees do the kind of job
that they were elected to dok And I urge your support of t is
Bill '' '
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill
1856 pass?'. Al1 those in favor signify by voting 'aye'e
and the opposed by voting 'nö'. The gentleman from Cook,
Representative Moore, to explain his vote.''
D. A. Moore: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen
of the House, I rise in support of this Bill ah.. in spite
of the Chief Sponsor of the Bill. We are not on the same
side very often but, occasionally: we are. I think, that
this is a good Bill. It leaves us. at least in my District
in the South Suburban Area of Cook County, to establish the
pame rate as the City Colleges of Ch* ago. It gives us an
opportunity to bring our rate up to w/at their's are over a
..k' ..,X '' t ,',... vs.?jr . GENERAL ASSEMBLkJ.' r . r.,) l svxme oe 1 uulwo's2 f. t .., ) .m:... . .# * '.
' . H 5L1 S E. o F Fk E P R E 5/ N T AT 1 + ES.N %*vtz ,....1-- ..- . --- ---
44.
Jperiod of t'Vu. The two new Collegds in ah.. South Suburba: . )
kcook County 'ah.. are in need of this money, desperately.
And, there iù a backdoor refefendum attached to this. I see
no objection.tb it. And, I would urge 89 votes on the Board.
Thank you, Speaker.''
Rep, Arthur A. Q'e-lcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take
the record. on this question. there are' 42 'Ayes', 31 'Nays'
uand this Bill:-qnaving failed to receive the Constitutional:.
' majority is hi'teby declared lost.'''
Hon. W. Robert Biair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Randolph .''
P. J. Randolph: '''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah. .
la:t Thursday, the Committee of the Whole heard House Bill
4680. And, the Committee did arise. I'd like, at this
time, to report prégress. Mr. Speaker. And, I now move
that Rule 38 be suspended so House Bill 4680 may be advance
to Second Reading - Second Legislative Day. I so move, Mr.
Speaker.''
Hon ' W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there objection? Leave.
xA '
.It is to repofY the committee of the.. action of the Committ e
of the Whole. -Oh! To advance to second Reading now. A1-
right ah.. Aru the Rules suspended so that the. . the ah..
House Bill 4680 may be' placed on the order of Second Reading -
Second Day? Alright.. Hearing no o'bjqction. then that's the
order of businaus that it will be placed on. The ah.. gentl -
man from Cook, >Q''-. Hyde.''
H. q. Hyde: ''Mr. Speaker: Ladies ani Gentlemen of the House,
I now move thatethe Hcuse ah.. stand in recess for one half
. ' v. 'N ' .
. z.t i'z .. z '' . . ? .. : . '.7z k'z kï N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. . . j. k(.y .g ., $..s r!w t.bhwj'..j'. . j ' 5T' A. T' E O F I t. L I N o 1 SQ . ' . t , u 6 , ' ' q 0..../' * s o uj s u: o yr a c j > y, c s E N T A 'r I v e: s
lr T! . . ...
45.hour for purposes of a Republican Conference. The Republic swill report to Room 2l2 immediately
. If we ah.. get down
there very quickly. we can dispatch our business and returnin a half an hour.
''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate.'i
C. L. Choate: ''Well, Mr. qpeaker, would ah.. advise theDemocratic Memberse We are not going to have a Conference
this morning. Ah.. if they want to get something to eat.
have a cup of coffee or something. But, I would ask them
to be back on the floor of the House ah. . in apprbximately
tbirty minutes when the Republican Conference is overm''Hon. W. Robert Blair:' ''Alright. . Ah.. wedll be back on the
floor ah.. at 1:00 P.M. Ah.. we plan on working ah. . quitelong this afternoon in order to get the Calendar moved -''
RECESS FE 12:30 O'CLOCK P.M.
RETURN A; 1.:00 O'CLOCK P.M.
Doorkeeper: ''All who are not entitled to the House Chamber, wi l
yov please retire to the Gallery? Tiank you.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright . . The House will be in order.
House Bills Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4112.'.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4112, a Bi 11 for an Act to pro-
vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Boardof Vocational Education nehabilitation
. Second Reading ofthe Bill. Two CoMnittee Xmendments. Committee Amendment
..' .j w ' t' >'ï- . G y; N E R A L A s s E M 11 t. Yu' >kpzt. .,)>,,t
sxsv.s os ,uu,.o,s2 ,u.. .k 2 -..1'.?-d . . ' .. elotl 5 E O F N EPR ESC N T' 8 T 1 V E S
46.
No. 1. amend House Bill 4112 on Page' 2 by insertinge immedi
ately after Line 6, the following: 'For expenses of the
Advisory Council in connecticn' with studies and evaluations...
$100 0001 ''# @
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiroe''
D. C. Shapiro: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, Amendment No. to House Bill 4112'. provides
a $100.000 for the expenses of the Advisory Council in con-
nection with studies and evaluations. This line item was
inadvertently left out when the Bill was drafted. And, I
urge .its adoption.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Any further discussion? The question 's
on the adoption of the Amendmen' t. Al1 those in favor say
'aye', opposed 'no'' the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment i#
adopted. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2. amend House Bill 4112 on
Page 4, after Line 17 andsoforth.n'
Hon/ W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro.nxM '
' D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Chairman, ah.. Ah.. Mr. Speaker,
Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. this Amendment ah.. re-
quires the Department- . Division cf Vocational Rehabilita-
tion to make reports to the ah.. ah.. Bureau of the Budget
and the Appropriations Ccmmitteey Minqrity and Majority
Staffs ah.. on a quarterly basis. And, next year prior ah..
! to the next meeting of the General Assembly. And, I urge
its adoption.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nAny further discussion? The question
.. ' ;-.. . .. k. u A :..);% jj ,r e,j
...A j GENERAL ASSEM BLYt.'.t.) y,,m .1
f.-t .x. ) svxv.e os Iuuls,o's. -1,;. ? 'r: '' ' *. . . H ou se o F R EPI: Es E r4 T A.T 1 v Es61 , . .. . ! *- < .... . -. ... . -- -. . --- --.
47.
is on thq adcpticn of the Amendment. Al1 those in favor
say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the Amend-
ment is adopted. Are there further .Amendments? Third Reàd-
ing. 4134.'' '
Eredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4134, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation to the Board of Trustees to the Universitie
Retirement System. Second Reading of the Bill. One Commit-
tee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4134 cn Page 1, Séction 1,
Line 9, by striking .$3,038,3001 and inserting in lieu there
of '$38 300..1,. #
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Cla- bauqh . ''!'
c. W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the Hcuse, this is
really just an Amendment in form. It's taking $3,000,000
out of this appropriation for University Retirement ah . . and
putting it into the... And then, there will be an Amendment
to the Universities Annual Appropriation to put the money
in there. So, it's ah.. just a change of form that the ah...--*
Bureau decided that they rather have 'it this way . And,
move the adopticn of the Amendment.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? A1l those' in favor of the
adoption of the Amendment say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes''. #
have it and the Amendmen t is adopted. Are there further
Amendments? Third Reading. 4163.'1
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 1463, a Bill for an Act to make
an appropriation for the ordinary and contihgent expenses of
certain Legislative Ageneies. Second Reading of the Bil1.''
. .q z. .: ... '' %N X t) t2'' .z z .> tc;vk, G E N Iy R A L A s s E M B L YJ' kt-'ï .z 4 .. ; :. v' ; smxv s: o v. I uu I s o lst. . :. .j .' 'S.' ' ' .., . el D tl S E O F Fl 1: P f' E S E N T A T 1 V E S%t q +% *.z' .v. . . .. !!., ! . .. . . ''
48.
Hon. W. Robert Llair: ''The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Regne .''
D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, thls is a committee Amendment ah.. which corrects
the original B'ills introduced to include some of the various
Commissions that were left out of the ah.. original Bill.
And, also it relieves to of them that were included but ah..
due to the enacting Legislation of last year, these Commis-
sions will cease to exist at June 30th of this year. And, I
would ah.. move: the adoption of Committee Amendment No.
to House Bill 4163.,'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? All those in favor of the
adoption of the Amendment say 'ayel opposed 'no' the 'ayes'# #
, have it and the Amendment is a'do pted. Are there further
Amendments? Third'Reading. 4210...
P. B. selcke: ''House Bill 4210, a Bill for an Act to make an
appropriation... reappropriaiion to the Board of Higher
Education. .second Reading of the .Bill. No Committee Amend-
nïents . ''.M '
Hon. W. Robert B1ai2: ''Any Amendments from the floor?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 1. Henss, amend House Bill
4210 on Page 2, andsoforth.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair': ''The gentleman from Rock Island Mr.
Henss .n
A. Henss: ''Mr. Gpeaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, earlier today, was agreed to shift ah.. $590,000
from one Bill, ah.. thFt Bill being House Bill 4528 in the
denate , to this nille House Bill 4210 . Ah . . this m rticular
;s ... . .. .q k ,jk,w...':a. .1 . ./4/'8 j'mzn'r *G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yjq.-:.. ) , ..t2 a !)
,. e x2 > svxvs ov , uu1 uo,sf.k ksi.. .,* 6 . . y Hotase o F nctlyylcslzN'ra'rlvcs#
'
1 t ''''z . . * * Y .'*'tàl .- ..'
'
49
appropriation of $590,000 is ah.. going to be added on to
4210. . But, actually, it has already met with the unanimous
ap/roval of this House. Ah.. this particular Amendment hasbeen checked with th e Chairman and the Minority Spokesman
of the Appropriations Committee. I would appreciate your
support-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nIs there discussion? The question is
on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say
'aye', opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment#
is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading.
4211..'
Fredric B. selcke: zHouse Bill 4211, a .Bill for an Act to make
appropriations and reappropriations to the Board of Regions.
Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Commi -
tee Amendment No. 1. amend House Bill 4211 on Page 1, Sectio
1, andsofortho''
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Islandp
Henss . ''xA
D. A. Henss: ''This is a Committee Amendment reducing the appro
priation by $9,060,254. I move for its adoption.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The question is on the
adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor. . . The gentl -
man from ah.. ah.. McHenry, Mr. Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. on this Amendment, I have
an Amendment also on the Clerk's desk and I know that we've
never really resolved on how you go ibout handling Amendment
on what priorities . 'rhis is a ccmmitt'ee Amendment . Ande
' .J /. (c?> ' 4 G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI j eû..- s . . , v & yt j(. Tt . .. ; s'rnv'e o Ie 1 t. ul s1 o, s.1 ' J '='.. . ; .* s î J. . H o tz s E b F a E F. :4 e: s e: pl 'r A. 'r I v c s*1 jl ô%* ''''
50.
my Amendment also adds money in certain line items. And, I
was just wondering if.. if they are.. if they will be compat'-
ble. I don't want to lose my AmendmK t in offering an Amend
ment ah.. because theyêre incompatible. I have two Amend-
ments up there. I'm talking about the Amendment on the line
items for ah.. appropriations.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well, I think, we have to ah.. address
ourselves to the Amendments ah.. ah.. in their numerical
sequence. And ahg., that question would be appropriate
when.. when we got down to the consideration of ycur.. of
your :h.. Amendment. Is there any further discussion on
this Amendment? The question then is on its adoption. All
those in favor say 'aye' oppoged 'no' the 'ayes' have it' . #
and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?'''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4211 on
Page Section Line l64 aùdsoforth.'' '
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman.fr' om Rock Island, Mr.
Hdns s . ''A '
D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this ah.. Amendment is also a Com-
mittee Amendment. It reduces the appropriation for Sangamon
state University by $977,000 because of a ah.. savings on a.
on a low bid. I love for its adoption-n ' Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The question is on the
, ,adoption of the Almendment. A1l those in favor say aye ,
opposed 'no' the qrayes' have it and the Amendment is adopte .'''
'lAh Amendment No. zenss, amend HouseFredric B. Selcke: ..
éill..- ''
. L 2.4.'n yj 4$ ...... *:.r. N. (. .. ' .'ty..$ .,, N, j- -. -' N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 xkt ,.. > ) sv ,.'re: o .. ' u u ' ,q o 's% w . c ! . .# ' % </ , . s o u s E o F a E e !v E s e N T A. T 1 v E sr 1, . . +% .' .C 2- '
5l.
Hon. W . Robert Blair: nThe gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.
Henss.''
. D. Henss: ''Amendment No. 3 is not a Committee Amendment bu
it is an Amendment of form . It rearranges the ah.. Bill in'
the amount of $17,500 which should have been taken from ah. .
Section 6 instead of Section in the Amendment that we hav
just adopted. It does not change the total appropriation.
We agreed to the réduction but it was improperly drafted.
And, I move the adoption of Amendment No.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? Tse gentleman from Cook,
Mr. simmons-''
A. E. Simmons: ''Would the Clerk read Amendment No.
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The Clerk will read the Amendment- ''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on
Page Section 6, Line by striking ,$46,747,1001 andinserting qin lieu thereof .$46,729,60017 and on Page 8
,
Section 6, Line 2O# by striking $2,485,300' and inserting
in lieu thereof '$2,470e3OO'; and on Page Section 6, Line
.< . 26, by striking $$8:707,100' and inserting in lieu thereof 'I
'$8e704,600'; and on Page 8, Section 6, Line 35, by strikin
'$21,042:500' and inserting in lieu thereofX$2l,025,0O0';
and on Page ll, Section 7. Line 3O, b.y striking '$261,500'
and inserting in lieu thereof '$279.000'7 and on Page ll,Section 7, Line 3l, by striking .$836,407 and inserting in
lieu thereof '$853,907'7 and on Page ll, Section 7. Line 32,by striking '$3,317,016' and inserting in lieu thereof
1$3'334 516'..'# #
wt K s.', k; -,,/t--7.-,, o E x s R A L A s s c M B L vj/ t ijyy .: .r) x ,jg4 Cj .T' g/ :4 o u S E o F R E yp R E s E :4 'r A. T' 1 %/ E S
.Q .
52.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there further discussion? The ques
tion is on the adoption of Amendment No.'3. All those in
favor say 'aye' opposed 'no' 'the 'ayes' have it and the#' #
Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall. amend House
Bill 4211. as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, Line l5, by
striking '$19,905,1421 and inserting in lieu there .$19,999:
954% and on Page 1, Section Line l8, by striking '$2,430,
685. and inserting in lieu thereof 1$2,432,685'7 and on
Page 1, Section 1, Line 19, by striking ,$91.5001 and insert
ing in lieu thereof '$96,000,7 and on Page 1, Section 1,
Line 2O, by striking '$499,500' and inserting in lieu there-
of '$500,000% ahd on Page 1, àection 1, Line 2l, by strikin
'$296,300' and inse'rting in lieu thereof '$300.00017 and
on Page 1, Section 1, Line 21p by striking 1$25,125,041' an
inserting in'lieu thereof '$25,230,553'7 and on Page 2,
Section 1, Line 3l. by striking '$65,674,5981 and inserting
in' lieu thereof 4$65,780,110'.1'A '
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr...
Mr. Henss.''
D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this Amendmeni was to be offered
by Representative Harber Hall. But. ah.., in his absence,
I will offer the Amendment. 1111 tell you what it is. Ah..
I've discussed it with him. I agreed to the Amendment.
Harber Hall is a Member of the Appropriations Committee and
the Committee erroneously took $105,512 away from the I1li-
nois State University thinking that the work ah.. was going
. & > ' '. ' .XNNV J
'
f tr x,'?u:b j'G'J7ze-' G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y/ -':. a h. j1 V'Ltr , e.7 . . ' r ; s 'r A. .r s o e' I u u $ rq o I s1 ? 5** ' 'Y '' . . s ousc o F' n E e R cst:- 'r a'r 9 v ssRt. q :'*Y' . Z64 ë d '' . . . -. -. ...--- .
53.to be done by the Board of Higher Education. This is notthe case. There are no funds being appropriated to the
Board of Higher Education for the purpose. And ah.., the'
money should be put back in . It has been discussed. And, .
I agree with him. Actually ah . ., in all equity: this Amend-ment should be adopted because Illinois State Universitywas the only senior Institution in the State to receive acut in ope rating funds. And, they should be treated
equitably with the other Institutions. So, on behalf of
Representative Hall I move for the .adoption of Amendment#
NO . 4 . ' '
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . Cook, Mr.
Regner.''
D. J. Regner: .'Ah.. Mt . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, the Appropriations ah. . Committee did not take it
out erroneously. We did it on purpose. Ah.. this is a ah . .
doctor of our ah . . feasibility study. It's not a study forIllinois State but a skudy for a1l public higher educal onin Illinoisl And, we felt that this job could be done bythe Board of Higher Education
. And, in talking to the peopl ,' they said that they could ah
. . do the job. 'Thereforey wedid ah.. pass.. pass this Amendment to take this ah
. . $105,000 out of the Illinois State Budget and ah
. . request theBoard of Higher Education to do the study. And. therefor
,
urge you to ah.. ah.. to not adopt ah. . this particular
Amendment to House Bill 4211.'.
Hon. Wr Robert Blair: ''The ah. . gentleman from ah . . Lee, Mr.
. .!. 1:.9; ...a. ' ll... h;' 'TSIJ '''8J ' h.r'? 4 r 'mtl'r ''j G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y(î v' i. : , .. 1-t svavs o v. , q.u , s, o . s-.j.,,,.nï .-
2-,7 souss o. aceacss-vxx.vss
.
î.x . - ,xkpl.tù f..'' .%. 7. '-
Shapirov''
D. C. Shapiro: ''AK. . Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, it is very seldom that I rise to oppose' an opinioheld by the highly respected Chairman of the Appropriations'committee. However
, in defense of this Amendment, I amcertainly for it, I would like to state this
. I think. youare al1 aware of the turmcil that many cf the Universitiesin this State have gone throvgh in the last year in arrivin
gat their ah.. budgets with the Board of Higher Education.
And, in that process, there are funds that have been interna -ly allocated in other words, low priority programs dropped#out 'and higher priority programs placed in. And: by the 'shifting of these funds
, it freed up dollars for new progra .
This particular line item, in my opinion, is money tha6
rightfully belongs to the Illinois State University. When'
it was ah . . given to the parti'cular line' item for ah. . the
study of the doctor of our feasibility, ah. . it was moneythat rightfully belongs to I
.S.UJ In taking it out/we areactually taking monies that they worked hard to free up
.. By placing it baek in, we do not raise the General Revenue
monies above and beyond ah. . the Bill as it was introduced.
And,' I would urge everyone, in this House, to support this
particular Amendment. I.S.U. has been one of the Universiti sthat's gone along with the General Assembly and the Board
ofHigher Education. They have worked hard to mak
e every dollaeount. They deserve this money and, I think, they shouldhave it.''
. '' X
'
i '
'
J ) jj *,.. x. . . (; xhbiyb .c ',> > ' -Xq G E N E R A L A S S IJ' 51 B L Yl :..k. .'. r.xl t.) sxwvs o. , uu,sols,c w
.. k..J.n' ' ' -z' sowss ov mceasseeqxxxsves
55.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.
Henss.''
. D. A. Henss: .'1:11 closeo''
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''Is it your mike? Oh1 The gentleman '
from Erankline Mr. Hart .''
Hart: ''Well, I want to ah.. join with ah.. Representa-
tive Regner, Chairman of the Appropriations committee in
opposing this Amendment. This is nothing more than just
ah.. blowing a hundred and some odd thoûsand dollars to
sangamon... to Illinois state Univeâsity to do a job that
can be done by the Board of Higher Education without any
additional appropriation. And ah. ., this Amendment is not
p Committee Amendment. The Amendment is opposed by the'
Appropriations committee. And, we feel that ah.. that the
job can be done without this money. And, therefore, we
would ask. that the House defeat this Amendment. And ah..,
leave this money out of the Bill.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Any further discussion? The gentlemanA
from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hall.''
H. H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. . .. .
Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this
Amendment originally was in the Budget of Illinois State
. University. It was removed because it was considered that
the Board of Higher Education should conduct a study in the
Doctor of Arts program ah.. at that level. No money was
put in the Board of Higher Fducation for that purpose . The
Boérd is not going to do that and the job still needs to be
x% ' 1 k '.. '
à '* $. ''' :$t ;.y--'>z > G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yi jtkn ,j'k,x ) svxa.s os lut-,slo,s* ./. ,, .-r: -'.* >3. . / H otl S E Q F @ E P F? E S E N T A T I V E STr %*.A '.'.r 'ï? *.2!1 ''
56.
done. Illinois State would like to do it. They should do ' .
They're properly equipped to do it except for this minor
. funding of a hundred and five thousand dollars. And, I hope
that we will approve this Amendment .'' '
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah . . McLean. Mr.
Bradley.''
G. Bradleyl ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, vqry briefly, in urging the support of this Amend-
ment, this is a.. another instance of the Bcard of Higher
Education in mandating to one of ouf Institutions that they
do a job that the Institution is capable of doing. The Illi
nois State University is very capable of making the. . and
conducting ah.. the survey to determine ah. . this partieul'ar
program that the Board of Higher Education has asked them
to do. It's been the history of the Board of asking our
Institutions to conduct a study or a survey without finanein
the survey. And. thereby, imposing the cost upon an Insti-
tution. The hundred and five thousand dollars, although in
xve
my estimation is no small sum, is certainly due ah.. to theInstitution oE Illinois State University they are to con-
duct'this survey. And, I urgp the Members o'n this side of
the aisle ah.. not because there werp no cuts in any of the
other Institutions ah.. funds. . appropriation funds but be-
cause it is something that they have been asked to doe they' e
capable of doing. they're going to do the job. And, I urgethe people on this side of the aisle to suppo' rt this Amend-
ment . Thank you . ''
.% 9 ''.! ' r. 5 ' * '' '..', '; .t -D7z5 'q G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj v ; .,.w j-$.
. ' t''- zyrr .j. .- ., ow ,''s'rJ; Ea : e'-s'lsl:vclsv , w cs
.' . 4 . , g.h .
'
57
Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from oupage, Mr. Hoffman-''
G. L. Hoffman: ''Mr. speaker, will the sponsor of the Amendmen
yield to a question?u
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Ah.. he indicates that he wi11.''
G L. Hoffman: ''Ah.. Representative Hall. was this ah.. money',
which you're asking to be put back in the appropriation, was
this approved by the Board of Higher Education to be includ
in I.S.U.'S Budget as it came to Legislaturea''
H. H. Hall: ''Yes.''
G. L. koffman: ''Ah.. the answer is ah. . indicated in the
affirmative. Mr. Chair... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gent e-
men of the House, ah.. not for that reason only, but certai -
ly as a factor. If the Board of Higher Education ah. . woul
approve the type of study that is ah . . suggested here by on
of the State Universities, I think, that this is the reasqn
able place that it be done rather than adding more and more
people in a contractural or a technical ah. . status on a
day to day basis. to the Staff of the Board of Higher Educa-tion. I think, that those Institutions
, which have the ah..
facilities and the talent and the personnel to do these typ sof studies, should do them . And, I .urge your support of th'sAmendmento''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah .. from Rock Island,Mr. Hensso'.
D. A. Henss: f'Mr. Speaker, in closing. I think, the point
made by the last speaker is very pertlnent. The Board ofHigher Education directed the Illincis 'state University to
.... i - I A ;. r, .., .' '' jj;'' C). .'çr' ? ,8 ,7b> tj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI
.jt 4.:2 -: . ;x k. (u t . j svAve os juul-ols..( ? r:' ' . ,'* .*. . . ' 84 ou s E o F R we lv c sc eI'T A.T I v Es
* '
58do this study. Now, don't.. . I questione very seriously
,whether the Committee or the Legislature, as a whole, ah..is really competent to decide whether this study should bedone by the Board of Higher Education or Illinois State
'
University as a request of the Board of Higher Education.
Either way. it's going to cost one hundred and five thousandollars. If we take it out of this Bill, welre going to havto put it in somewhere else
. And, I thinky that the.. thatit is significant that
e at least, two Members of the Appro-
priations Committee, Representative Hall and Representative
Shapiro, are in favor of adding this back in because theyfelt, at least, that it vas a mistake to take it
out. 1'11ask for your support. ''
W Robert Blair: HThe gentleman from ah. . Cook, Mr.' LechoHon. .
Niez . ''
T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. and.....'' .'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well he. . he was closing, you know.ê
l in ah debqte. Did you have. . . .
X'Mr. Henss was c os g
. . T S
. Lechowicz': ''1'11 explain my vote. Thank you, Mr. Speake .
'' .
.
W Robert Blair: ''okay.. Alright ah. . Has there been a
Hon. .
request for a Roll Call? Oh: Alright... The question is,'
shall this Amendment No. 4 be adopted?'. All those in favo
will vote 'aye'. and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from
Cook, Mr. Lechowicz' desire to explain his vote?l'T. Lechowicz: ''Ah
.. yes, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemenof the House, actually ah... this item 'was cut in the Appro-priations Committee on the sheer purpose. that the Board of
, .t -8 .3 ''m;x Vv G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y(L' 4-*'7- .r.&.x ': j
sxxve og 1 us,slols>.i-. ' J. t yr wï: . . /
'- . 2 *# o tl 5 E' Q F IR 1: P N E S lC bl 'r A T 1 V E: S.j ' %e' .. .
f c; . . ! . v!: . ..
59.
Higher Education has stated that they would do this study
with no additional funds. This is one of the reasons why,
I hope, that this Amendment is.defeated .''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have p1l voted who wi'shed? The gentle-
man from Cook. Mr. Regner.''
D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my vote. The
General... The General Assembly created 'the Board of Higher
lEducation in 1961 as a coordinating.o, a Planning Agency for
all of Higher Education. It is the Board of Higher Educa-
tion's responsibility to conduct feasibility studies that
affect all of Higher Educaticn in Illinois. And, I wonder
why a million dollar budget is needed by the Board of Higher
Education for coordinating and 'planning state-wide studies
are to be done by individual Universities at additional
costs. The Board of Higher Education justifies the high
salaries of their employees on the basis that you must pay
a high price to get the most competent people. Howevev, the
Bbard now employs six or more people at a annual salary ofxA .
$28,000 or more. And, theylve just recently hired a Deputy
Director for $40.000. And: I wonder why we still have to
pay an additional $105,000 for a study at Illinois State
University when we' are paying almost a million 'dollars a yea
for the Illinois Board of Higher Education to conduct just
these various studies. And ah.., this is why I'm voting ah. .
voting 'no' on this Amendment. And: I would urge all of the
Members to do so.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hal .''
' k e' Jk k7'' '; Q. j'cpzvl G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yl v .: o I . .ux 1; r-'.tk . '< U' J . s'rx'rs oe 1 uul Nols
. / ' 7 .nC . . .. 5 ..* '. . . H o tl s u: o F R c e ra e: s c b1 'r a 'r I v c s*: .t &e%'6 ' ''
60.
H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladi es and Gentlemen of the Hous e
I've never hesitated to exercise thrifty decisions and. . in
matters of economy at the University of Illinoe State or
any other University. This is the first time that I've eve
risen to make an addition to the Universiky Budget on the
floor of the House. This money is for a good program, a
Doctorate of Arts. If.. If it.. If the'study in the Doctor
ate of Arts is properly formed. it will take money. No mone
is in any budget to do this program . And yet, it has been
requested by the Board of Higher Education. We believe that
the Illinois State University is properly equipped in Staff
to perform a very good study in this Doctorate Program . A
hundred and five thousand dollârs is al1 welre asking to put
back into the budget, that was originally in the Governor's
Budget for Higher Education for this Institution. So, IE
.
respectfully request that you give this some thought and ..
.i and ah. . see fit to ah.. to include this back into the.budgeI
' for this University which I have to remind this Body that ha
'
been probably in the leadership in their willingness to ah. .
reduce their budget and contain the ah.. ah.. size of their
budget, b0th in this year and in previo'us years, to where
they are ah.. havlng to release personnel and theyrre. .
they've cut much fat out of their okn budget and they're
opera ting on a very austere basis. But, this hundred and
five thousand dollars. if they are to do the job, ah. . will
have to be approved.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah . . Rock Island,
d .> * ZJ eùk11 1 e., ? h ; v',> r G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y'j t::: s J',m !
- svwvs os Iuu,so,sf .. :ç-.j -? nz.. . ,. ouss os aseassc-vwvlw cs1-
-- ,.%. '
- z... . - H ...:t, f a ;. rs . . , ë!
6l.
Mr. Henss.''
A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the HoB eê
when the Appropriations Committee considered a budget in
Higher Educatione the Illinois State University was the onl
senior Institution in the State of Illinois to receive a
cut in operating funds. This one hundred and five thousand
dollars was that cut. No other Menior Institution in I1li-
nois received any cut in operating funds ah. . from the
Committee. Instead. Nith a wave of a magic wand, we find '
the Committee adding on over six hundred thousand'dollars
for operatidn at a our biggest and richest Institution.
Where is the equity in that? Please vote to add back an
amount which was khoroughly considered by the Board of
Higher Education for a job which was requested by the Board
of Higher Education.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have all voted who wished? The Clerk
will take the record. On this question, there are 76 'Nays',
and 62 'Yeamt and the Amendment is lost m''
Fredric B. Selcke: l'Amendment No. N.Hanahan, amend House Bill
4211 on Page 12 by inserting immediately belQw Line l the
following: 'Section 9. Any expenditures under this Act
must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates
as established by public policy'; and in line 2 by deleting
the number and inserting in lieu thereof the number 1101..'
Hon. W. 'Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . McHenrye Mr.
Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. don't
.. . : w I A ,,.. x' (j zvt .àJ.+-7n % G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L YUf
,. 1i ç. pt.t . i .tJ . s'rave os I uulaolst-r'y ,.r-. . - ..,,/ j, o w s s o g. r4 t.: e r4 s s c rq v A. x. l v s s 'd! r 4. %P .'''
. oa
believe that there is opposition to this Amendment. Ah..
what has happened over the years is that the prevai'ling
rate has been included in all the ah.. University' Budgets.
This is the reaffirmation similar to what has happened when'
. .
Nixon... when the President of the United States froze the
prevailing wage around the United States is a lot of questi
in the Universitips and other public bodies on exactly
whether or not we should continue with the established publi
policy of paying prevailing rates. This Amendment would
mandate the University System to ah.. pay the prevailing
rates according to Law. I move its adoption-''
Hon. W. Robert Blairi ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.
Henss . ''
D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor of the AmeMdment
yield to a question or two? Representative Hanahan, as I
look at the Amendment here, you say that the 'expenditures
will be spend in compliance with prevailing wage rates as
established by public policy' Now, that language'is a lit le.!
bit loose, I thinke but, my question is, are you.. when you
talk about it 'established by public policy', you're talkin
about the Statutes of the State of Illinois.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Thatls right.''
D. A. Henss: ''How does your Amendment add anything to the exis -
ing Law under which the ah.. Universities must operate?''
T. J. Hanahan: ''l thought I explained that. When President
Nixon ordered the wage freeze in the 'Construction Industry,
which covers the prevailing rate and prevailing wage Law of
;,A :-,>.--,. c E x E R A t. A s s E M 1, L, v2. ? . $l j k*.1:1 u 7 ,k,. 'j(Jwt . J s.ra'rc oc It-ulNols. 'L.? .-''. ', H o u s e o s a c e R s s e N v A. v $ v t.: st ,: r!' '
Illinois, there's much question in the eyes of the administr -
i blic bodies in the State of illinoistors of the var ous puon whether or not they had to comply with either èhe StateLaw or the expressed desires of the President of the UnitedStates. This would reaffirm the Stat
ute of the State ofIllinois thatîs been on the Books since 1941 that we villpay the Union Rate or the prevailing rate of an area for
ditures of State Funds. That's all thks Amendmentexpendoes . ''
D. A. éenss: ''Well, 1.. . Mr. Speaker, I think, the language
is a little bit loose. Ah.. it could be stated more speci-fically but I don't see that it does any ah.. damage to theBill. Andy I do not oppose the Amendment-''
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''Is there further discussion? A AollCall has been requested? Alright
. . All those in favor df
the adoption of the AMendment will vot'e 'aye' and the oppos d#'no '. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner.'' '
''Ah Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlehen ofD. J. Regner: ..
A 'd like to explain my vote. Ah.. this is ah ..the House, I
one in a series of Amendments on the various Higher Educatio -al Bills ah.. to ah. . pay a prevailing rate. Ah .. if tbi sAmèndment and the Amendments on the other Bill
s get adopted,ah.. we're going to require additional funds of close tonine million dollars for wage rates
. In the Governoz'sBudget and in the Bills, as presented, they provide for the
four percent pay raise ah. . for all personnel ah . . academic
and non-academic. Ah. . these Amendments on this Bill and
.. . vx tq * : '.'; 'î * 'ù c E N E R A L, A s s E M B t. YIî .:.i-R17Nt' c 27.*- :) sxwve or- lvulstcylsï y.A . .;. (./ ,TY'' .;' sou sc o e a sr, r4 t sc :1 A. A 'r $ v cs' è: 111' ' 11*''*'
' 64.further Bills will increase the non-academic pay raises toah.. about five and a half percent which is one and a half
. percent over and above the rest of the ah . . ah.. the employ es
of the State Universities. think. the four percent i: 'fair. It's across the Board and I would urge the defeat
of this Amendmlnte''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have all voted who wished? The Clerk
will take the recokd. Simms.vlnoî. Timothy .simms. On this
question, there are 95 'Ayes'e and 37 lNays' and the Amend-
ment is adopted. Is there ah. . . . ''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK . . Amendment No. 6: Hanahan, amend HousBill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section l on Line 15. by
striking 119,999,954. and inserting in lieu thereof '$2Q,71 p
054.: and on Page Line b# striking '$28,215,252' andinserting in lieu thereof '$28,933,352.) and on Page 1,Line 29 by striking '$25.734,815' and inserting in lieu
thereof ,$26,686,715'2 and on Page 2, Line 5 by striking
:$36,906,7881 and inserting in lieu thereof .$37.858,688'2
--e .
and on Page 2, Line 31 by striking .$73,631,212. and insert-ing in lieu thereof '$75,301,2121.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentlqman from Rock Island, Repre-
sentative Henss.''
D. A . Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. I've not seen this Amendment
but I've tried to listen as the Clerk read it and I questionvery seriously whether it is in order . It seem to me that
they're striking figures whiph are no longer in the Bill.$'Rep. Arthur A. Telcserl ''The gentleman from McFlenry
, Repre-
.. . a , q.,'? b ; rR> . G E N E R A t, A S S E M B L Yj' Ct'-c '' t.s. j x xvs o Is j uuI x o , s$.-/ J s
. ? -.5 ' ' - .* tda . . ..' H D tl SE o F R E PR e:Sf: NY A T 1 V ES .'xC . . 1W':..::! ......
65
sentative Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker: this is exactly the point that
I raised earlier before we adopted any Amendments.'
I'm not
a mind-reader. I do not know what Amendments the House of
Representatives would adopt or would nct adopt. The Amendc
ment is drafted in good faith and offered to the House of
Representatives to be voted on as a ver y important issues
involved here in this Amendment. And, before it's ruled out
of the record, either I'd like the Bill held ncw as presentl
amended so I could properly amend the Bill or draft an Amend
ment or to have the Clerk change the figures accordingly
to what is... the Bill at present. And. I respectfully re-
quest that consideration be granted.n
A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, there is a method of. . of ah.'. han
ling this. The gentleman should have anticipated, I belveve,
by striking the entire line and having the line ah. . ah..
written back in in the manner he chose . He didn't have to
make referenee to a specific figure -''
T. J. Hanahan: ''I beg your pardon . There's no way of doing it .
Youlve checked.... Check with the Clerk. . . with the Referenc
Bureau. And, if they can do it, they're houdinis.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah . . with leave ah.., Representative
Henss, ah.. can we take this out of the record right now,
leave on the order of Sqcond while we look over the Amendment?''
D. A. Henss: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, I've been ah. sitting on the
edge cf my chair waiting for this Bill uto be called for ah..
I . x r ''>.e i%% RJ ''4 . j'b j 5
,' : .: f'''l'?x c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y ( liJ 's 5 7.* .! . ) s'r- 'I'E o P- 1 ut-l el o IsI i l . ' . 'kg r. . .. / H o k; 5 t: o F !: E P R E s E N 'F A T 1 V C S* t dl ... e%!7'' '-q --. '
66
quite some time, I think, as you... as you know. What.. .
What WOU1d Yhe Schedule be then? I would definitely like '
to move ahead with the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''We'll come right back to it today.
Ah . . . ''
D. A. Henss: ''It'1l be soon?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsqr: ''Yeah . . .''
D. A. Henss: ''Alright.w''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay. .. House Bill 4215..'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4215, a Bill for an Act to make
certain appropriation, reappropriation for the Board of
Trustees of the Un'iversity of Illinois. Second Reading ofthe Bill. Ah.. Three.. Three Committee Amendments
. Amen -
ment No. amend House Bill 4215 on Page 1: Line ll/and-
soforth.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repren
entative clabaugh . '' 's
c . W . clabaugh : '.1. think, Mr. Speaker, I 1 d like to ficilitateA
matters on this first Amendment. Itls made up of several'
parts. First. the Amendment simply changes on Page ah. . 1,
Line 3. It adds twenty-nine thousand plus dollars for theah.. exercise Therapeutic Clinic in the Department of ah
. . .
ah... in the College of Physical Education. And, the next
one on Page 2, Line 2, is where we add that three million
dollars that I mentioned that we took out of the Bitl a fewminutes ago and it comes in here
. And, on Page 2, Line 6,there's some changing around but therets no addition of mone
... k ...1 'k ,' ? 3.1 'D> '< G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y/?- T/-yv
, t) -,.;.:1 srxx.s o, ,y...,-o,s* &..g- . / H okl SE t; F R C
en ESE N T A.T I V ES* ' * Z2 #' % ** '!. .t. C ... ''
67.
there. But, there's a changing around of the figures that
was ah.. put in for the crippled children's ah.. money. one
. change from three hundred and twelvq to two hundred and
sixty-seven thousands of dollars. And, on Page ah..2. Line.
by changing ah.. the total sums there of $540,000. And.
the Amendment was adopted by the Copmittee unanimously, Mr.
speaker. And, I move the adoption of Amendment No.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.' 1, to
House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption signif
by saying 'aye'e the opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted.#
Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4215
on Page 3, Section 4. Line l5e by striking .$82,007,200, an
inserting in lieu thereof 1$58,075,000% ands.oforth-'' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-
sentative Clabaugh-''
C. W. Clabaugh: ''That was not my Amendment. Mr. Speaker. Tha
was the Amendment of the ah.. CommitYee.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Regner.''
D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, this was a ah.. Committee Amendment. And, what
it does it deletes three projects from the Chicago Circle
Campus, one is an addition to the ah.. Library Building,
ah.. the signs in the Engineering Building, and an additicn
to' the power plant which wouldn't be necessary if the other
... . .jït k k; f .' t' . ..j --l7Qr) G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj :2,. t '.: $,.) j . svavs orr ,uulslolsf , .o i q?X ,X ' ' *; s o k, s r o F a c e R E s E a T' A Y 1 V C S4t . +%* ..?
t.... -' .--
' 68
two projects are taken out. And ah... was the consensus of
the Members of the Appropriation Committee to adopi this
Amehdment. And, what it does. the total changes 'in the Bi1
is a reduction of $23.932.200. Ah.. and I ah.. move the
adoption of Amendment No.'2, to House Bill 4215.'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2,
to House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption
signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no'e the Amendment
is'adopted. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: nCommittee Amendments three and four were
tabled in Committèe. Wefll go to Committee Amendment No. 5.
Amend House Bill 4215 by adding after Line 24 on Page 8
the following-a-o''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Represehta-
tive Regner.n
D. J. Regner: ''Al1 this Amendment does is ah.. make the effeè
tive date of the Act, July 1. 1972. I urge the adoption
of Amendment 5, to House' Bill 4215..'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The genG tB
man... The gentleman from Cooke Representative Simmons.''
A. E. Simmons: ''Creates Section 9. And, I have another Amend-
ment on my desk that hasn't been read yet creating another
Section 9..'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there a number on that Amendment,
Representative Simmons? Ah- Amendments No. and 4 were
tabled in Committee. Ip that one of 'those two Amendments?
/Qt 8, j -->,gcNy G E N E 11 A L A S S E M 8 L Y
! ; ké 1. ;'t.-r. . ' ', a ') '- ) s v x .r c o s' , u u I .q o I s.
't -.;' =' .,' souse os acescsssvarlvssx
' #. '( ' t z z. wasF. '
' 69.
Okay..''
E. Simmons: nIt's okay now: but the next Amendment ah..' there's something wrong with it-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. The gentleman has offered to'
move the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 4215.
A1l in favor signify by saying 'aye' the opposed Ano', the# .
Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 6, Borchers, amend House
Bill 4215 on Page 8, by inserting immediately after Section
9 the following: 'Section l0. No contract shall be entere
into or obligation incurred for any expenditure from the
appropriations made in Sections le 2 and 3 of this Act for
the employment of Lou Gold, Instructor of Political Sctende
at the University of Illinois'.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Representa
tive Borchers.''
W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, I
would like to show you files upon this gentleman. Here is,xe
I won't read them all or I'd be here for about an hour, I
just want to read a couple of statements frcm this. This
is the ah.. Daily Illini, 'Lou Gold, a controversial instru -
tor of political science working under terminal contract
this year, will be allowed to stay at the Universi... Uni..
University as a lechurer for one more year'. This has
happened twice. 'Each time the question of Gold's contract
came up within the Collegeg the political science departmen
recommended that he be retained. And, each time the Colleg
. s * k'' ' >...:#s % $) r' .c s.''?M i -7D> zr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ykf-t:? : .. ., t.<-t ïf.ê î tlt z
'
,c': .J.
-
,7 sousssToaerl t''seF-a'lst-si-b'xox' 't . v e s .. . f ;.y . % .s... e'
' 70.
k 'has given him a tem inal contract . There is . however. st o g
feeling within the political science department thât the
College wanted to get rid of Gold because of his teaching
style and radical activism'. I won't read any more. But.
as a result of this radical activism, two years ago, he
contributed. through his radicalism, teaching in his classes,
he contributed $40,000 worth of damage to Greene Street and
Plate Glass Windows. Now, just last... a m'onth ago, there
was more activity on the campus. Here are some in the
Daily Illini, 'Protestors Hit Campus stores' which he con-
tributed by his speeches. 'The Police Chief Tend To Assert
six Arrested in Ahti-War Protests' 'Campus Looters on a#
Rampage', Headlines: 'Campus Protests, Eruption and Looting'.
These are from the Currier, the Daily Illini and the'News
Gazette. Letters on the matter. 'Thirty-Eight Arresued'
in the Schunutte Protests'. He has twice been arrested for
leading groups of students in proEests which, if he wants
to do that on his own time, Qkay. If he wants to be ah..
Buty if he has no right to block the.. the activities. the
interests. the egress oE other citizens about their lawful
business. He's been arrested in the ah.. in the ah.. ah..
the County Clerk's Office in Champaign and at Schunutte
Air Force Base. What his present status hise with ah.. the
numerous arrests and actiyities, I don't know. I just know
that they continu- . ah.. continue his ah.. terminal contrac
year by year. And, I think, it's time that we, as a Legis-
lature, give a hint to the Universityuthat 'terminal' means
(*, 4 ' 'c c s x E R A j- A s s E M B L v/oy'?J''7?> 'àœ
'
T 1 . p . i *!; u$ % ? r 1 J ) s v A. v s o Ir I u u 1 el o I sU
sl. ,? e ' . ' .z '/ s o u s s . o p. a s 'e n s s e: a v. A x I v u s* . tv . ,Rl * %* ' '4: 2 ,x .'.- . ! - '-
7l.'terminal'. nec/use, if the way theydre going now
,
it'll be another ten years before we see the'gentleman putoff the campus and the teaching of the radicalism that's
now exisking in his classes. So, I move the adoption of.k
this Amendmentw''
A th A 'l' tc'ar: .'Is there any discussion? The gentleRep. r ur . c =
man from Cook, Representative Berman .''
lA. L. Berman: ''WVIJ the Sponsor yield?''4 7 . .
Rep. Arthur A. Tercsor: ''He indicates he will.''$
A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. Representative Borchers, I1m sorry that Ididn't hear some of the opening remarks. But, is this man
ah.. covered by the Civil Service ah. . provision of the
Universitya''
W. Borchers: ''I can't .answer that. He has been given two
terminal contracts. And, each time, they have been extende .''
A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. by whose declsiona''
W. Borcéers: ''Evidently, by the ah.. by the College of Politic l
Science. Ah.. the University has given him the ah. . the..
.A '' the terminal contract twice. This is according tc the news-
paper articles. Ah...''
A. L. Berman: ''Have you had a chance to lo'ok at the ah.. at
his personnel file'to determine the basis upnn which hisemployment was extendedr'
W. Borchers: ''I have not. But, I've seen the police fileso''
A . L . Berman : '' Pardcza . ''
'
W. Borehers: ''r say: have no6 seen his personnel file, but I
know of his polico record-''
...' xN1 * 11 v './'s . /,.7?> ' J'' r! 1.1 E R A L A S S E M B L YEr kij .2 : 'rh ' i k.?$. !) -. fx'vi . . ) s'ra'rc oy- Iuul pl o1s
. ; j, -:*.'. . 5'. . t* 5'.d; . z' t4tlusez OF REea ESENTAT'IV Esf? %* 'Zf . z. .$ , . !y., . e'
y2A. L. Berman: ''Ah. . what... Has he been convicted of any crim ?''
W. Borchersz ''I believe, b0th cases are still .in the matter othe Court.''
A. L. Berman: ''Wel1p there's no convietion against this per-
SUWO i'
W. Borchersf ''No there is not at the moment, as far as I kno .#
But this time there may'be. I don't know what's happenedr ? . # in the last ten days.. two weeks.'.i
i A. Berman: ''Do we have any ah. . evidence that would justif
ah.. adoption of this kind of an Amendment besides ah. . news-
paper articles and ah.. pending court cases?''
W. Borchers: ''Well ah.., no, there's no other evidence. But, .
I think, it's rather self-evidcnt by t.he activities of the
University that he has contributed by this radical ah. .
teachings in his classes to the extensive damage on the
University of Illinois Campus-''
A. L. Berman: ''Well, Speaker, if I'may address myself,very briefly, to this Amendment-
''
.M '' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed: Sir.''
L. Berman: ''I think, wedre letting into a very dangerous
area where, without any substance of pröof of any crimes
being ccmmitted, wt are beinq askid, by this Amendment, to
place our determination, I think, into an area of freedom
of speech, the freedom of. . of the academic community as to
what this begislature feels is the proper way for an instruc
tor to conduet his courses when we have already delegated
that responsibility to an Administration to a Civil Service
o A 'XN ' ..;k.. > hkp ')h. .'.$ k''-rrv G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y16 (.&.,tt.,JJz.,Jë svavc os ,uu.xo,s. * . ty/w ., ..:7 . . . a o qj s r: o s a s e n s s c pj x s v I w c s''N.Y :1:'* %.*' ''X
73.Setup which has found fit, upon a careful evaluation, appar.nt-lye to allow this gentleman to continue in the employment
of the University. for one, think that it's a very bâdprecedence. I think, that we do not have any facts upon
which to base a judgement in support of this Amendment.
And, I would respectfully urge that this Amendment ah... nobe adopted. And: I would recall
.. . request a Roll Call
vote, Mr. ah.. Speaker.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre
sentative Pappas.''
P. Pappas: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House.I don't know this Lou Gold, that is mentioned in the Amend-
ment, but I do know that the University of Illinois is rne
of the outstandihg Universities of this World. It consiste -
ly ranked in the top ten in the United States and it did no
achieve that position with unsound decisions nor with the...nor can the University maintain that position with the heavhand of the Legislature hiring and firing their academicpersonnel.- The University's AdminisEration is quite capableof handling its problems. The Legislature should not takethis kind of a decision. We have no Persosnel Department .
We don't know about this gentleman. It may well be that heis a pretty bad character. I suspect that that is a possi
bility. But, the University can handle the situation andwe should stay out of it.
''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there. .. The gentleman from Cook
Representative B. B. Wolfe-''
.. ' ;. . p , .-', ,;: t, rf %e'''./' ; . .) '-T>. h, G E N E R A L A S S E 5 1 l 1 L Y( i U' k .. ' 7*) t sv .vs o s , uu, ,., o I s'. tt, ),'.'s,:... .,.1
sowss .e n seaessxxwv. vcs .
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74.
B. B. Wolfe: ''Ah.. thank you. Just briefly, Mr. Speaker, I
think, that ah.. Chairman Henss of the Education... of the
Higher Educaticn Committee has. made a very valid point, that
it would be very dangerous for this House to adopt such an
Amendment because then we would be placing ourselves as a
substitute for administrators all over the State that are
operqting and running ah.. Colleges. And, we would be doing
the hiring.... And, eventually, we wculd be doing the'
. jhiring and firing of ah. . personnel. I think, that ah.. we
! should well leave this matter to the University Administrato s.
And, if he's to be terminated. it should be under proper
procedure. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-
tive J. J. Wolf.''
J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gehtleman has moved the previou's
question. All those in favor signi/y by saying 'aye', the
opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And the# :A '
gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers, to close the
debate.''
Borchers: ''Gentlemen, I ah.. concur with what ah.. the Chai -
man of the Highert.. the ah.. the Higher Education Committee
has said and what some other gentleman here have said in rel -
tion to our... we entering into the internal affairs of the
University. concur. I put in this Amendment to draw
attention to the University; that we are aware of these thin s.
. feel that, by doing this, that we will encourage the Uni-
. ) .r .'îh -cce c E N E R A t. A s s E M B L v/';g j;..; : j. , trj ç. t s ; s'r X'I' c o Izb I ut-, N o I sj .g +. . . .* ' :.' J . . H o tl s E o F 12 q: P Fl E s E$ N 'r A. T 1 v' E 5*, . -- . e s*. ''
'
75versity, if they're going to give him a terminal contract,to give the gentleman a terminal contract and stick to it.A1l .1 would like to have here, actually, is just enough voteto defeat my Amendment. I ah.. ltat's a peculiar thing to
say and I'm well aware of it. But, think, we should cometo a close vote on this to indicate to the University thatwe do expect them to act in cases like this and not ah.. continually extend, time after time, their actions. Thank you .
''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment
No. 6, to House Bill 4215 be adopted?'. All those in favor
signify by voting 'aye', the opyc sed by voting 'no'. Thegentleman from Cook Representative B
. B. Wolfe, to explain#his vote.''
B B. Wolfe: ''No I was going to ah. . ask to table the Am' end-* ' .
ment, Mr. Speaker, on a oral Roll Cal1.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaigne Repre- .sentative Hirschfeld-
''
! J C. Hirschfeld: nThank youe Mr. Speaker and Ladies a'nd Gentl -
*
men of the House, I'm very tempted to vote in favor of this'
particular Amendment because, having lived and now living in
the City of Champaign-urbana, feel that RepresentativeBor'chers is going to pay Professor Gold exactly what hisservices are worth to the University of Illinois which iszero. On the other hand I am persuaded by the a
rguments of# .my good friend, Representative Berman
, that what we are doinis injecting the Legislative Nose into 'Educati
on. So, I'malso tempted to vote lno' except that IKm afraid that a nega
j'û ./'' 't.z'D>% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ye. .;.y. g! o.( . . j svwve oe Iuvlaojs. ' t J r7 ' ' . ouss oe .nceaese-vl'rtv es4. . . H*' v r-'' e*
'
76.tive vote might make Professor Gold feel th
at we are condon-ing his services. Therefore, ask permission of the Chair
to be recorded as 'present'- ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Record Representative Hirschfeld as 'voting 'present'. The gentleman from McLean. RepresentativeHall . ''
H. H. Hal1: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of theHouse, it may be recalled here that two years ago, I intro-duced a similar subtracting budgetary for salary Amendmentto reduce the budget for 'Illinois State University by the
amount of a gentleman's salary who was, apparently, the same
bent as ah.. Mr. Gold at Illinois. . . at the University ofIllincis. Ah.. this Legisiature saw fit ah
. . to pass thatah.. Reducing Amendment. It had a solutary ef.fect upon that
particular gentleman and some of the aciivities on the campuof Illinois State. But
, because I have to agree with the
honored Representative from Rock Island, that this should
not be a common-place practice to inject ourselves into thepersonnel de'cisions of our Universitiés
, I would like to berecorded as voting 'present' ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''J. J. Wolf... 'present'. The gentle-
man from Cook, Representative Scariano .''q *
'
A. Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in behalf of my Colleagues, Representative Thompson and Brenne and
Reprasentatives Palmer, Yourell and Kipley, I1d like to in-troduce ah.. the Dolton Girl Scout Troop 169k Mr
s. Danco andMrse Gannon, their Leaders, right here on the right side of
. . A -' m.
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'
:
--
7 7the Gallery- r'Thny're from Dolton
, Illinois-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook. Representa-:
tive Maragos.''
S. C. Maragos: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, also on
behalf of Reprpsentative Collins, Representative Lenard and
Myself, I'd l5.lce I-o introduce another Troop from DoltoneIllinois. Butr it happens to be the Thirtieth District.And, that ah.. ihat's ah.. Girl Scout'Troop Number ah
. .. fro: ..7' 'Dolton, and theyvre also up in the Balcony
.''
Rep. Arthur Teâcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-J.sentative clabpugh . ''
r .C. W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. S'peaker and Members of the House. a look
at the Board shows that I'm voting 'grpen', I'm voting 'aye'
on tM s Amendment. It was my intention, for some weeks whe
this Bill got on the floor, to offer the very Amendment thahas... that you have before you
. Nowe I realize that thisis new in Illinois but this kind of ah
. . action is not without precedence. Back during the first years after World WaII4 when many of the Federal Departments in Washington werecrawling with subvqrsives and every oiher kind of undesirablpersons, it wasne't unusual at all for extlusions like thistd have been made-in some Bills that th
e congress passed.Now, I'm not critical of the University of Illinois becausethey are doing just what every other Higher Insti
. . . Insti-tution of Higher Learning are doing
. .My friend from RockIsland referred to the ah
. . prestige cf the University ofIllinois and it has great prestige
, I hope, over the last
w . 1-.z. s% j : ,'q), a''-lM > C E *a f R A L A S S E M B L Y''v 7 l-r-.: z
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78.
thirty ye:rs that that had something to do, possibly, with
it. But, it didn't gain any prestige by having creatures
like Lou Gold teaching there. Now, this is all balony that
the University should not be concerned with anything that '
any of its employees do when they're not in classes. This
man. possi..w could not possibly be a. . a teacher in any
sense of the word that we expect a professional man to be
whek he's been out three or four times this year leading ah. .
groups in al1 kinds of violence. Proof. . . Proof in Courts
really doesn't mean very mùch any more ah.. when it comes
to people's conduct. He was arrested in the ah .. in the
Office of the County Clerk because he wouldn't get out when
he was asked to get oute ah.. when they were closing onp
night. He did lead, within the past month, a group of peopl
up to Schunutte Field to.. to ah.. put o'n some fake waf
criminal trials at the gates of Schunutte Pield, had a littl
too good of sense to go on the grounds because then they
would have been taken to the Pederal Court outside of the.v,'
feeling cf the University and: probably, wouldn't have faire
so well. But, he did get himself arrested and there were
thirteen other'full professors and one half'time professor .I
that got themselves arrested and took along twenty-five unde -
graduate students along with them. Now, if you go over ther
now and walk around some of those buildi ngs and see the ah . .
not only on the campus: but'off the campus and see the
destruction that has been caused and, I would say, by studen s
and this man was one of the leading, if not the leading caus
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'
79
of those things, you would feel just a little bit different
about it. Higher Education in this Nation is sick. It's
awfully sick. 1'11 give you two quick examples. One man w '
convicted of violence and about everything else, except rape
and murder, ah.. in some of the University protests. He wâs
finally diseharged from the University of Illinois and thearms of Washington. State University were open to him and he
went right out there and got on the payroll. 'Another one
did the same thing and his. . his ah. crime was hit a State
Policeman in the mouth with a ah . . chunk of concrete and he'
still on ah.. oh.. some kind of ah. . appeal and he went out
to the University èf Vermouth and got a job immediatelyeknowing his record ' everybody there knew his record
. Now,#
' a ing that it's going to take some drastic action's likeI m s y
ah.. Representative Borchers has akked here to wake some
of khese people up. As I say. I'm not critical of the Uni-
versity....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Shea for what purpose#
Ado you rise, Sir.
''
c. W. Clabaugh: ''l did make some inquiries. o - w
''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentativç Shea. Representa-
tive Clabaugh, could you ah . . wait a moment, please?''
W. Shea: ''I don't think the floor of the House of Repre-
sentatives of this State is the place to take apart a Colleg
Professor. We pay the Administrators at the University goodsalaries and..... ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Miller for what pur-
.. '; J '' .w ',.. !. A ..f .w % t ,..$..-b. 'rT('a e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' î:l j-ex t
vavs o,r , uu, aols1 ..N's'.t . . . j s'. ( p n.: . . . - . v: a s e a s s c sj x g x 1 v s s* ,. H ous e: o' 17-1/*-*/
. .
8O.pose do you rise, Sir?''
P. J. Miller: ''Wel1, I think, that ah .. Representative Shea. . . . . . ..1i
s out of brder. Ah. . he doesn't raise a point of parl..-of proeedure. .He's ah.. ah.. attacking a man in the middle
... tt . -of'a speech. The gentleman, Mr. Clabaugh, was explainingah'.. his vote and he was discussing the issue. And, he getsup and takes issuance. He's out of order: If he were rais-
.ing. a pcint of parliamentary procedure, I could see it
v''. s' . . i
Rep. érthklr A. Telcser: ''Cculd you please state your pointe;.%f T . .
Representative Shea? Do. . Do you have a parliamentary pôint
you wish to ah.. to persue, Sir?''
G. W. Shea: justg./ I just wonder if this is the place todebate this type of issue?''
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Well, the Amendment deals with anindividuale Representative Shea. It seems to the Chair thatit ah.. deals. . .. ''
G. Wa Shea: ''It deals with reducing a budget item, doesnîxt. it?'
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''It doese in part, Representative Shea.
But: the Chair Vill rule that Representative Clabaugh wasproper in his ah.. remarks
-''
!C. W. Clabaugh: think
, Mr. Speaker, that I've been very .
tolerable of a lot cf other people that, I thought, was
dragging a lot of muckrake in on this'floor at many times on
less important public issues than this. And, appreeiateyour letting me finish
. 1$11 finish in just a moment. The
reason that I didn't introduce this kind of an Amendment.
Afte'r I checked baek into this mun's record and his standing. . . A
'
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'
.-# u .
8l.at the University of Illinois, I am convinced, pretty thor-oughly convinced, though I have not in any way been promise ,that he won't be around. Bute I wish this got 89 or 90 or
95 votes and maybe it would detour some of these ah.. equallvicious but a little' less militant people to behave them-selves and go ahead and teach your sons and mine ah.. they
way they should be instead of propagandizing them all of thetime. And, I vote' 'ayef Mr
. Speaker.''#
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre-sentative Stone.''
P. Stone: ''Mr. Speaker, may I please be recorded as 'presenti?'
Rep. Arthur A. Telscer: ''Record the gentleman as voting'present'. stone. The gentleman from McLean: RepresentativBradleyw''
G. A. Bradley: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
Housee I may find myself in sympathy with the Amendment that'sbeing offered and discussed here this afternoon . However,
as was pointed out earlierrah.. in the debate, we had a simi ar.M .piece of Legislation offered and passed by b0th Houses and
signed by the Governor some two years ago ah. . taking a..
a direct cut from a Professor at Illinois Siate University.I was in sympathy with that piece of Legislation also. How-ever, did not come anywhere close to doing th
e job that'sbeing proposed that this Amendment will do
. All that it wildo and all we're doing today and al1 that Amendment did was
cut the appropriation the personal service appropriation,and. thereby, cut the salary percentage-wise for every facult
r.. v qj r, .. ,2j zj.n% G E x E R A t, A s s E M B 1- Y: y ...ï , , ja.J ii t ' r r'Y œ smavc o s I ut-l sl o,sf- '' . !/
. ts?.r:'' - uouss oe aseacsc--r-x,vss .
, s %* e''!. !J. ?r -' ' .'. . . .. .' ' '
. '
g 2
member at the University of Illinois. If you could be spe-
cific and spell out the man's name and ah.. cut his' salary
specific and not have it pertain to anybody else/ it would .be a good piece of Legislation. But, believe me, all you're
doing here today is eutting the pereentage-wise the salary'
of every professor at the University of Illinois .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsçr: ''The gentleman frcm Cook. Representa-
tive Simmons.''
E. Simmons: ''We1l, in response to the gentleman that just
spoke, ah.. the Amendment that I read does.. is very specifi .
I And, it reads this way, 'no contract shall be entered intoI .I cr obligation incurred for any expenditures from the appro-
'priations made in sections 1, and 3 of this Act for the
employment of Lou Gold, instructor of political sciente at
i it of Illinois' I think that is very splcificthe Un vers y . . ,and that's why I1m voting 'yesl n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lHave all... The gentleman from Ccok
Representative Katz.''
QAh I ah.. just simply want to observe in passinH. A. Katz: ..
here that we have a Constitutional Prohibition against a Bil
of Attainder. There has been a United State's Supreme Court
De'cision that holds that the Legislature may not prohibit
the expenditure of money for a particular inéividual. Thisis clearly an Unconstitutional Act. Ande those of us, who
support the Constitution and those who say they do and who
are against professors who don't, should show that they sup-
port it right down the line. And, they should do so by re-
. 'I y;'./ 1 g'''r.rrzfc G E N E R A L A S S E M 1) L Yl . jtjji l . ..r . j a a. j1 v t
. . t U ) sm-'rc oe- . Iuulaoss/ > .z. , .* # ' . '' .. Housc o F ace!v ssua'r A'rl v Es'' . , !%! '. !-f!':.... '
- . ..
aaspecting the United State's Supreme Court Opinion
, that a
Legislature may not pass a Bill of Attainder. against a spe-#
cific individual, constitutionally .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: BThe gentleman from Macon, Representa-
7tive Borchers.''
W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Eellow Members of the House, 11
made a pretty close estimate of the vote .up there. And, IIdo appreci.. . and in explaining my vote, ah.. I ah.. I ah..r . .
appreciate Repcesentative Clabaugh's ah. . ah.. position.
Ah.. but, I do tbinke that it would nice if about three more.12 .
'green' or four Rore 'greens lights went up there. And#
think, that the hinE will be taken. We've got some reporter
over here from Champaign-urbana' and it's bound ah.. to make
h the point overathere too. So, about ah.. thre'e morea ..
'green' lights would be just fine.''Rep. Arthur A. Tplcser: uHave a1l voted who wished? Take the
record. On this question, there are 56 'Ayes', 62 'Nays'
and the gentleRan's motion to adopt Amendment No. 6, to Hous
..-A '
' Bill 4215, faizs. Are there further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Seleke: ''Amendment No. Stone, amend House Bill
4215 on Page 8 after Section 9 by inserting the following:'Section lQ, andsofortht.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Moultrie, Representa-
tive Stone, on the floor? Welle in the meantime, ah.. Repre
sentative ah.. Miller, for what purpose do you rise, Eira''
'
P. Miller: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentiemen of the House,
I have a very important announcement and it's not my farewel
... . k. r, A .. Nhx !... . ..' /(.?,,6-7.77> > . G :.7î N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Yt
- $ . 't'r&,jt ' svwvs os juulxols2 fu ... ..1... z =:.:. . .* >u; . l : C1 ul S E o F R E P R E 5 E N T A. T l V E S't u a . . s )-'',....:11...-,
..... . .
84.
song. You've heard that before. But, I hope it won't be a
farewell tomorrow night out at Iles Park. The Ball Game is
on for the benefit of the Boy's Club at 7 o'clock. And,
want all of the Athletes to go to bed early tonight and for-
get the ah... forget the inequities or whatever might be
found and get to bed early and let's knock the hell out of
the Senate. Give me a perfect record when I leave this Hous .
Thank you-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah.. Roll Call..... Has Representa-
tive Stone returned to thè floor? Was Representative Stone
on the floor? Ah.. we're going to have to withdraw that
Amendment then. Are there further Amendments beyond Repre-
sentative Stone's. Renumber them, please.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Amendment bTo. 7, Londrigan, amend
House Bill 4215 on Page 4 by striking Eine l8; and on Page
4, Line 24 by striking '82,007,200' and inserting in lieu
thereof '77 465 000'..'' #
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Sangamon, Repre-
sentative Londrigan.''
J. T. Londrigan: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, this Amendment takes out of the appropriation the fu'n s
for the second University of Illinois Law School on the
Champaign Campus. It's strikes four and one half million
dollars which will be quite a savings for the taxpayers.
Now, I am for another State Law School but any place, any
place by on the Champaign Campus. We are going to have anot er
Law School, apparently, at Southern in Carbondale. Whether
... s' l y= ,. x s.., aq *. $) a .x''($ h l''rj% fv N G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y'ik.f : s- . k, 2;
f-gt . t ; :; sravc orr 'uudxods. .j.j) ,r*.' . ' . s o qj s s o s jp c e s u s s a v A, x' 1 v e: s. %..%?) z ': . CJ.?I :! ,. .q. .. .. .
:
85
this or another Law School be in Southern Illinois, Central,
Northern, even Chicago Circle Campus, but any place by
Champaiqn, Illinois where we already have our one and only
Law School. There's only one Law Schoole State Law School.
Downstate or any place and that's Champaign . A11 of the
private Law schools are in the Chicago Area . So, doesn't
it make sense that. if we're going to hav'e another Law
School or a big expansion amounting to a Law school. that it
should be any place but on Champaign Campus. Now, last year,
I introduced a Resolution that no University should expand
larger than 20,000 student population. And, if theydve %
already expanded farther than that, they should not grow
further. The University of Illinois defeated this in the
Higher Education Cohmittee by one vote. They constantly
said there and in their publications that they did not de-
sire to becote larger. They ar@ already over 33,000 student
at Champaign. They constantly say'that they do not intend' j:jto. .. .
. Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons. for what pur-
pose do you rise, Sir?''
A. E. Simmonst ''Ah.. I believe: this Amendment conflicts with
Amendment No. 2 as it deals with Line 4, Page 4... Line 24,
Page 4.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Let's take a look . Ah.. your point
is well taken, Representative Simmons. And ah.., the Clerk
informs us that we can just change the Bill to read, 'Amend-
' ment, to House Bill 4215 as amended -'-''
...q < *JI fg'e l-i.qr;.>/ G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y/ ' k.y '-; j; ç. .1 ': , è.q.j svave oe I k-ujsjo Is
. t > X ' ' T *.<J . / Hotz SE f: F n E1*l' Es E NT AT l V ES*Q .. ) $ w*l = ' ...t.. -. . -- -
86.A. E. Simmons: ''And
, if you do that, #ou'l1 have to changethe figure in it too because the new figure, according tomy records, is fifty-eight thousand
. . . ah.. fifty-eightmillion, seventy-five thousand. He uses eighty-two million
e07e two hundred .
n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk will do that, Representa-tive Simmons. Proceed, Representative Lôndrigan
-''
J. T. Londrigan: ''The University of Illinois has consistentlysaid that they do not want to become larger. But, at everyopportunity, at every Legislature
, they attempt to put inadditional facilities. Now, my twenty thousand Resolution
..
Student Resolution was supported just recently by .the Carneg'e commission on Higher Educati'on Which made the study through-
.I out the country. This commission established that no Uni-versity. the largest ones giving the doctoral commission
,should beeome larger than 20
.000 student populaticn . So.there we have the highest commission in the Country supporti gthat no Universiky should become larger than 20,000. Now,
wM '' obviously, this will save the people, save and cut spendingand taxes four and .a half million. Those of you
, who areconcerned about secondary education
, those of you, who knowtiat we spend far too many dolla
rs on higher edûcation andnot enough on secondary education
e hêre is an opportunityfor us to save this additional
money. Another point is, ina recent editorial. that there are too many Lawyers in theState of Illinois, that Law Xchool Students and Lawyers haveincreased fourteen percent just last year
, that now there ar... . x
'
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.I f z .: ,4 . . )r ..
87.
three and a half students in Law Schoola... or three and a
half Lawyers for every one student in Law School. So# if
we are to have another University Law School at Southern,
I think. Champaign is one too manyt I believe, this entire
conception should fail because we have much higher prioritie
than this Law School. We have Welfare, Secondary Educatione
and almost everything else should come before this second
Law School at Champaign. Another point ise that the buildin
of this Law School will mean that ten percent OE the student
will come from out of State and we will be supporting out of
State students with our hard earned tax dollars. So, for
all of these reasons, I believe, that itls for the good of
the people of the State of Illinois and also for the good o
the University of Illinois itself, not to become larger.
And, we should cut this s/ending by four and one half milliodollars.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Palmer.''xe
R. J. Palmer: ''If the Sponsor will yield for a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''HC indicates that he wi1l..'
R. J. Palmer: ''Ah.. Representative Londrigan, does this ah..
it.. I don't understand the Amendment. Are you seeking to
delete any appropriation for the Law school at the Universit
of Illinoisr'
J. T. Londriqan: ''Right..''
R. Palmer: ''Well then, what. . what will they do if ah.. if
our motion is ah . . or your Amendment't . . the motion is suc-Y
, ..z,. sj (. g; w,y: ' 04..:5.$-77'.. . c E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y& vw '. )a. tti fwNku' , ) w s'rx 'rc o v 1 u u 1 s o Is. bL...g .r: . : . ., sou ss o F' 14 cpa cs Is N 'r A 'r 1 v cs,1 ,vu;.y%?...
88.
cessful here?''
J. T. Londrigan: ''It'll... It'll cut the Law School Appro-
priation.''
R. J. Palmer: ''You're not completely eliminating the appropria
tion then, are youa''
J. T. Londrigan: ''No.''
R. J. Palmer: ''And, the effect of the appropriation then. . or
your Amendment then would ah.. actually hold the num. . . the
number Y students enrolling there ah.. down . Is that cor-
rect?''
J. T. Londrigan: ''It will prevent the further expansion from
60O to 40O more students which would a thousand.n
R. J. Palmer: %eI see. Alright-.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleIaan from Uhampaign, Repre-
sentative Hirschfeld.''
J. C. Hirschfeld: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentl =-
men of the House, I don't believe that anybody has taken
more of an interest in the University of Illincis Law School.A
than I have personally. And, I think, I led the fight last
year in opposition to any further funds for that Law school.
However, I'm going to rise and oppose RepFesentative Londrl-gan's ah.. Amendment at this time because, I think, there's
been substantial changes made the policy of the Law sghoo
at the University of Illinois. First of alle with regard
to Representative Londrigan's comments, r think, it's very.
very misleading, although I'm certain that he didn't intend
it to be that wayy to refer to this addition at the
z . 9 !: ' '..' t .. h'..' . ' ? g, -,'(RJ . 1 G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- z:' s t , ,.). : svsvs o s , usl xols. jîrz k .'(.L? ,=:' ' ' - s o w s c o s a c e R s s u ,g a. A v 1 v e: s
. s%3uJ-ï:t::.. --
89.
Universify of Illinois Law School as a quote, 'second Law
School'. This is no second Law School. It's merely expand-
ing the current facilities at the Uhiversity of Illinois to
take care of some serious overcrowding problems they have.
Now, last year, on the floor of this House, we seriously
questioned the number of hours that were taught by varions
professors of the Law School. This matter has been resolved
to my satisfaction, after a lengthy conversation with Dean
Cribbet. We also cuestinned the Admisslon Policies becausewe had figures that were supplied to us that showed more tha
twenty percent of the students at the University of Illinois
Law School were out of State students. And, this did not
include the special program for black students at the Uhi-
versity of Illinois Law School. We also seriously questione .
the Policies of Admission at the University of Illinois,
whereby, 'they would weight only one-third of the admission
grade on four years of undergraduate work and two-thirds of
the grade on a Law School Admission Test. And: Ladies and
Gentlemen of this House, I've seen people walk into one of
these L.S.A.T. Exams dead drunk and ccme out with a perfect
score. And. someone else, who is an cutstanding student,
would go in, and because he would happen to panic at an exam
and some pecple do panic at these exams: score very poorly
and not be admitted to the Law School. So, I raised these
questions with Dean Cribbet a year ago and we did not get
them resolved. But, over the course of the past year, we
have got them resolved. And, therefore, I am supporting the
b zt t-y.,rx, % G E N E R A t. A s s E M B L y. t q , t .; . jt- . fk-', - v' ..
'.': :.
.) s ssT'oA ') 1'J .'j 7s1:.7) Sv I v e: s .. . , sou
90.
expansion of the Law School at the University of Illinois.
Now, along this same line, later when it beco'mes appropriat ,
when the Bill is brought up, I''m going to oppose the Law
School at S.I.U'w not because I'm opposed to a second Law
School, but it seems to me, Ladies and Gentlemen of this
House, that, before we start spending money for a second
Law School, we should give this money to ihe University of
Tllinois Law School which already has an established facult .
an established Law Library of thousand and hundreds of thou
sands of volumes and see whether or not that Law School can
absorb. the students that want admission. I agree with the
comments that were made. In some areas, there is an over-
abundance of Lawyers. Therefore, I see no reason to build
the second Law Schoo'l in this State at this time. But, I'do think, it's necessary to expand the Law Schcol facilities
at the Univeréity of Illinois. pprticularly, in the light . of the many letters that I'm receiving from around the Stat
of'lllinois from outstanding College Graduates of the Uni-xA '
versity of Illinois and elsewhere who have been unable to
be admitted to the University cf Illinois Law School becausthere is no room in the inn . Therefore. I hope, that wewill defeat this Amendment and pass the Appropriation Billith the Law School Apprèpriation in'it ''W
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Represenfa-
tive Mann.''
R. E. Mann: HI wonder ah...if ah . . Representative Londrigan
would yield for a questiona''
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' 91.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will-''
E. Mann: ''Ah.. Jim, I reçieved ah.. a letter ah.. either
from the Dean or the Dean of Students at the Law School ah..
. asking me to support increased appropriations ah.. for the
Law School. Ah.. I'm not a gradutate of the Law School, but
I am a graduate of the University. Ah.. wondered ah.. is
this an Agreed Amëndment with him? Ah.. did they agree to
this cutbacka''
J. T. Londrigan: ''No.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-
sentative Clabaugh-u
C...W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. Speaker, practically all that I intended
to say has been said by my Colleakue or some of the others.And, if there's no one else, 'I'm going to make a motion to
table this Amendment. Bui, I see Representative Stone is. '
up to speak.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre-
sentative Stone-u
P. Stone: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, I think
i that ah.. an addition to the Law School is needed. that we '
need room for more ah.. students so. that they can become
Lawyers. think, that if there is to be a new Law School,
it should be at the University of Illinois where there are
plenty of facilitiés already. The present Professors can
ah.. teach additional students and we can get along much
cheaper for the State. think, it's pathetic that.. that
yj '.t ere is such large percentage of the young people of the
... . . . k)' ' .w.. '' ,;.. '' . ;;/ t' td;. .,.. 'b. . ...s:./'' ? q, t:''R'p, '- G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yk, ,c. 'y:-q. t e; juujaojs2 )- . .. r sravc o.!- d. c -. . . , .* 5.q, . J aoklse: olr REeRESCNTATIV Esv . 0:..,
92.
State that want to become Lawyers and they have no place to
CO. I ah.. Certainly support Representative Clabaugh in hi
motion to table this Amendmento''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The
gentleman from Lawrence, Representative Cunningham-''
R. D. Cunningham: ''Will the Spopsor of the Amendment yield to
a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He ihdicates he wil1.''
R. D. Cunningham: ''James, where did you go to Law Schoola''
J. T. Londrigan: ''l went to Pre-Law at Illinois and Law School
at the Chicago campus.''
R. D. Cunningham: ''Well, I had thought frcm the expla...
want to speak to the Amendment just a minute. I had thoug
from the excellence of the.. of Representative Londrigan's
efforts that he was an Illinois Law Schcol Graduate. ï thin ,
that this is an instance wiere all Illini Lawyers should
stand together and beat down all of these efforts to keep 'Illinois from continuing to advance into front ranks of .M
National Law Schools. We have witnessed in recent years
amazing progress in that direction. No longer, when you sa
Law School, do people think of Harvard, Columbia and Yale
and stop there. Now, they think of Illinois and we have an
opportunity to march forward. Somehow, somewhere, we must
overcome this strange love-hate relationship that we see..ê
advance too often among Illinois Law Graduates. All Illini
should stand up with pride and vote Yor Clabaugh's motion to
table this Amendment. We must recogni'ze, in all modesty,
... .;. <* ç ' .' kb 4:-/77,,- G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YJ kttt. ,'1 ) &. i .a jzju ' .. l ) , s'ra're o F 1 L LI N o 15. jjk/ j'r: . ., sj o cj s s o g. n p: e a s s s: hl v l v 1 v c spt.0 ,.Y:.'*'gd p qI
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93. . o . a 4that Illinois turns out excellent Lawyers as exempizrleu DY
the people who serve in this House. It makes no sense at
all'to try to restrict the size of a fine, great Vniversity
to 20,000 peoplee if it makes just as much sense to try torestrict people to five feet and seven inches which I would
favor. But, I think, now is the time to build and even
bigger and better.university of Illinois. And, 1$11 be
proud to vote with Clabaugh.on his motion to table. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tiue Hyde.''
H. Hyde: ''Wel1, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of th
House, ah.. I thihk, the University of Illinois Law School
as achieved the pinacle in ah.. ah.. ranking ah.. among the
major Law schools in the Country ah.. but, I think, thereis a difference between quantity and quality. And, I think,
sometimes the quality ahk. is endangered at the ah.. ah..
expense of adding ah.. more and more students. Now, I'm
not for ah.. ah.. diminishing the importance of th'e signifi
cance of a major Law School in a major ah.. State Universit ,But for God's 'sake. we need Doctors. We need Doctors#
desperately. We have Lawyers ah.. coming out of our ears.
And. all they do is they graduate and they go to work for
H.E.W. or the Office of Economic Opportunity and become
public interest Lawyers and suing other branches of Govern-
ment at the taxpayer's expense. Ah.. ah.. as far as I'm co -
cerned, would double or triple the'ah.. appropriations to
the Medical Schools, to any and a1l Medical Schools in this
'
a; . k 7>, G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: t ;'. ) e-'.'..j :Fc . . . 4 . sv A. T' E; o v' I u t. j N o l s. .Q? W.. . ,. . + yI o kl s c: o F R E: e R s s E N T' a T' I v E s*tw .. e<.z..-.1.-.-R
94State because there's a desperate shortage of Doctors.
Lawyers? Who needs them?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Madoupin, Repre-sentative Boyle.''
K. Boyle: '$I wonder if ah. . Representative Londrigan admits
or will adnit that there is a shortage of Law classroomspace in ah.. the State today?''
J. T. Londrigan: ''Certainly, there's a shortage of Law class-rooms, but there's things being done about it
. There's ah..
a new Law School proposed at Southern. The point is, I saithat I'm in favor of another Law School
, but any place but
on the Champaign Campus. Nowe that isn't too hard to under-
stand, I don't believe .''
K. Boyle: ''Well. Myself and Representative Corbett'try to
get students in. T understand ah. . that students, with 4'.5
averages. were turned down. And ah. . , I don't know how man.
Lal./ers ah.. we have here in the House, but... and I don't
know what their grade averageq were when they were in Colle .aebut I might suggest that some of them
, who are here wouldn'' be Lawyers today'if they had to meet the criteria and the
standards that these students have to meet in trying to getinio these Law Schools
. And, think, it's pretty bad when
have ah.. a situatione where students that have 4.5 gradeaverages, are turned down because there's not enought class-room space. And, I submit that maybe some of the Law
yershere may be a little jealous that these students ah
. . willa little bit smarter than they are whenuthey get out. And,
.. s)a ' >> .yz. %t :2 tty.z j 't/ o . j N7> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yi- zt i, ,,)m j. t 'to.. p s'rxvs os IuulNols
. )U.'Z ' * 1 s ou ss o lr . 1. ce IR css sws 'r l v ss1 l qr , . ): ..?- ..m e
95.I.. I donft. for one, intend to support an Amendment to re-duce Law schools Eor the simple rcason that there's too
many Lawyers in the state of Illinois and it might hurt hyLaw Practice and I might lose a little bit of money. I thi ,that we need more Law space
. And. I canlt think of a finer
place to have than the University of Illinois.''Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#
tive Kipley .''
E. L. Mipley: ''A point of parliamentary procedure. Ah.. is amotion to ah.. table debatablea''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well, sir, the... Representative Cla-baugh indicated that he wished to make that motion. Did he. ..
Did you actually put that motion, Repre....''
C. W. Clabaugh: ''No.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''No: he did not: 'Representative kiple .
The motion has not been puto''
E. L. Kipley: ''I beg your pardon e''
'Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook. Representa-tive Maragls.''
S. C. Maragos: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in arisi g
against the Amendment of my esteemed ColleaMue, Mr. Londriga ,
I speak from personal experience because my oldest son wasapplying at the University of Illinois for membership. And,because of the space, he was refused and he had even a closeaverage, I should say, closer to 6. in his ah .. aptitudetests as compared to what Representative Boyle was sayingof .someone who had 4.8. It is a crying shame in this Countr
.. v. ... x r'ex: *' q;;y A ' r ( j
Lw. . . ' ç G E N E R A t. A s s E M B L Y *)'ei ;, t6 o f$...:vh * s'ra'rc ofr l uulN oIs . xto, g =r. . . . j.s cj u s s o lr s c e n s s s pl .r A x. I v s s . '. .%%. .!:T:'...---
Ahat the opportunities for our College Students and our
Hiqh school students are becoming limited because of the
lack of space. I may also say also the fact that Illinois
is a high grade Law School, and I'm not an alumnus and I ca
speak without preludice. And, if we start another LawSchool now in another part of the State, it will take, at
least, ten years before the reputation can be built up and
+bq quality of .thnt Law School can be enhaneed. Therefore,
Tythink, that we should not put any strings on any particul r
Upiversity, especi#lly the University of Illinois Law Schoo .
And, t.herefore, 1. aàk that the Amendment of Mr . Londrigan's
not pass-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Kane, Representa-
tive Schoeberlein.'''
A. L. Schoeberlein: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker. as a non-bawyer, I mov
the previous question.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telscer: ''The previous question has been moved.
AJ.l those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no',A '
tha 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Sangamon, Repre-
sentative Londrigane to close the debate.u
J. T. Londrigan: ''Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaier and Fellow Members,the point. as I said in the beginning, is we a#e going to
have, at least, one. if not two, nek Lyw Schools. The point
is, where are those Law schools to go? We havn one State
Law School. Why B1nould we put another one on top of it?
And I say, an expansion of'four hundred students is another
Law School. I saû'. put it any place but on Champaign Campus
.7 . . s : ' . .--= .=- . x,.,. ., i.p. r4. . .(t'%' Lt. *) : -,> '%. ' c E N E R A t- A s s E M B t, v/r e , ,k. )(1. ç àr .; - smxvs os Iuulaols= 1 . ., ' '%- .t. I ' House oF aceacsEa-rA'rl <es.xxJ' +%*#V '.Q ''-.-
:
97.
which is already too crowdedz. And, being the second State
Law School, it should not be on the Champaign Campus. Now,
we've talked consistently about priority. This is way down
on the list of priorities for Higher Education. Now: when
we make the Higher Education priorities with Welfare: with
people, with secondary education, I think, this Higher
Education priority for this Law School should be way, way
down on the list. Here is our opportunity to cut spending
which we're always talking about. We can cut spending here
four and a half million. Let's do it.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is. 'shall Amendment
No. 7, to House Bill 421% be adopted?'. All those in favor
signify by voting 'aye', the.... Is that Number 87 Seven,
Representative Simmons. Ah.. Representative Stone was not
on the floor for his Amendment so, we renumbered this one.
The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 7, to House Bill 421.5,
be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', #
the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished?' '
jj. The gentleVan from Cook. Representative Fary.
E Fary: ''Ah.. in explaining my vote, Mr. Speaker, Idve
been carrying these around in my pocket for D me time . Her 's
à young lad. His'name is Dennis J . Krisic. H@ lives 9122
South Abers Avenue in Evergreen Park . Hels now in the four
year at ah..., he's graduating in June at the University of'
Illinois. He has a B and B+ average and he wants to go to
Dental School and they have no room for him. They're putti g
him on an alternative list. Here's another one, Mark Pucin ci.
-.qx.:. jj A 7 74 '..# 'k . .t.j'Ai..(''T> e G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y-, .-tx-- ,'.' ?.) : svsv.s os 1
uuls o lsîktyjn.. . . souss o, nceaesssxaxlvss
' 98.
B+, 475 out of 500 at the University of Illinois Champaign
Medical School. They have no room for him. . Doesn't qualif .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a1.1 voted who wished? Take the
record. Caldwpll.. 'no'. On this question, there are
39 'Ayes', 67 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion, having
failed to receive the majority vote, is hereby declared los .
Are there... Representative Borchers, for what purpose do
you rise, sir?''
W. Borchers: ''I rise on a point of personal privilege.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcserz ''State your point, Sir.''
W. Borchers: ''Last ah.. week. my name was publicly mentioned
on the floor by Re/resentative ah.. Arrigo' in relation to
ah.. matter of French. Now ah:., Representative Arrigo
ah.. pointed out that ah. . 'Chevoe' was the prope: word in-
stead of 'Chevel'. have two experts in French, Represent -
tive Hudson and Representative Cunningham and Members of thAcademy of Science of Francee who :r+ backing me up in the
ah.. word khat I did use. I was speaking of 'warm horse','chevel'. M 'Cievod is the plural. I was not s/eaking ofplural horses. So, I just wanted to bring this to the atte -
tion of Representative Arrigo . And, And,... Just one
ôther... one other... one other pointy I'm very happy noone, since we had a loy#l illini meeting, asked me to helplead the band in the. . . on the podium.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Repre-
sentative Arrigo, for what purpose do you' rise, Sir?'.
V. A. Arrigo: ''AK. . Aœ . Speakor, I want to remind the Members
. N .Z %'k* ' r '
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*. * . ' 3
'
99.
of the House that that occurred during the time that khere
was a .debate on certification of bilingual teachers. And.
in/eed, I believe, it was your Bill, Mr. Speaker, at thetime. And. I was under the impression that our distinguish d
Colleague was speaking about a pack of horses. And, at tiatime, I thought, that certainly horses were not 'Chevel'
. '
but 'Chevoe'. But certainly, since this is a horse of a
different color, 1,11... I'm awfully sorry if I embarrassed
the distinguished gentleman. 'Chevel' has always been one
horse, 'Chevoe' more than one. I thought, he was speaking
about a pack of horses. And, I'm sorry if I embarrassed
him.''
Rep. Arthu' r A. Telcser: ''Okay. .''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No.'8, Hanahan, amend House Bil
4215 on Page 8 by insertihg lmmediately below Line 24 th@
following: ''Section 9. 'Ahy expenditures under this Act mus
be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as
established by public policy'o''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from McHenry : Represen -
tive Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose do
you rise. Sir?''
A. E. Simmons: ''Did I understand the Clerk to say that this
creates Section 9. Ah.. didn't Amendment No.... .u
T. J. Hanahan: ''Well, he's got the wrong Amendment. Ah.. Ah..
it should be ah..'on Page 8, by inserting immediately below
Line 24 the following:b.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We11, while tY1 Clerk straightens it
$,.# l-cpzx G E N E It A L A s s E M B t. v. gy.v ja x jû i : . t' ) s'ra'rc o'e. 1 uulsolstt p s.. .. . sous: .s sseacsssvwvlvss* : ..' t. . .1 . . tTs*.t ... . '
100.
oute Representative Randolph, for what purpose do you rise,
Sir? ''
P. J. Randolph: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Ied to
. have permission to have Senate Bill 1353 heard in the Reven e
Committee tomorrow. This has been cleared by the Leadersii
of b0th sides of the aisle.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcs/r: ''Are there any objections? Hearing
none, that Bill will be posted and the appropriate rule will
be suspended. Now. Representative Hanahan.''
T. Hanahan: ''Yes, Mra Speaker, Amendment No. ah.. l0? ll?
or whatever it is. 'any expenditures under this Act must be
spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as
established by public policy'. This Amendment is similar
to the Amendment that we adopted on the ah.. House Bill 4211.
This Amendment is.. has bèen adopted already. Oh! Amendme
àNo. 8. Yes. Ah.. this mendment would insure, once again,
that we... that the appropriated State funds, that are appr -
priated in this Bill, will bë spent in compliance with khe
prevailing wage laws of the State of Illinois. And, urge
its adoption-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there any discussion? The gentle-
man from Cook, Representative Simmons.''
A. E. Simmons: ''Did we ah.. adopt Amendment No. 5 to this Bill?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: .'Yes.. Yes, we did, Representative
Simmons.''
A. E. Simmons: ''Well, that created Section 9, readinge 'thisj '.Act shall take effect, July 1, 1972 . Nowe this new Amend-
.., ,i.r . 'q. wx,
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l 0 1- .
ment, that we're talking about now, creates another Section
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well, if we could be at ease for a .
moment, wedll get the Amendments. Representative Clabaughe
for what purpose do ycu G se, Sir?''
C. W. Clabaugh: ''As a matter of clarification, Mr. Speaker,
I think, tabledg.. or ah.. Amendments No. 4 and 5 were
tabled.. and 4? I'm sorry. It was 3 and 4 that were
tabled.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser) ''Okay, Representative Simmons, the
clerk will correct this Amendment and make it Section lO.
So, it's not in conflict with Amendment No. 5. Now, is the e
any discussion on Amendment No. 8? The gentleman from
champaign, Representative Clabaugh.''
c. w. clabaugh: ''Mr. speaker, Representative Hanahan verk kin lygave me a copy of this'Alendment before it was introduced.
t it to the people at the University of Illinois. ind,I sen
hile they don't particularly care for they said thatW..A
they can live with it and they have no objection to the
Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlqman has offered to move the
adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 4215. So, all in
favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed
'no. the Amendment is adopted. A4e there furth.oo.''#
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amend House Bill
4215, on Page 1, in Line ll, by deleting .$135,191,981, and
inserting in lieu thereof ,$141,011';981'2 and on Page
'j g 'r)s s E M j; j. vQV.4'%> G E N E R A L A S- Gks' r ,'lzo : svwve oe 'uu.-o's- '. l itg r:.. . r . s o u s c o e, s/ c e a 1: s s s x a. v. I u ;: s* , ' ost.zz
. ' yg;
by deleting a11 of Line 8 and inserting in lieu thereof the '
following: 'lTotal, section le $166,088.181)'.'.
Repe'Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry. Represen -
tive Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this.
Amendment is in answer to the questioning in the Apprcpria-
tions Committee .of the University of Illinois Budget Experts.
When I questioned them on whether or not Yhe budget as pre-
sented to the General Assembly truly reflected the amounts
of money needed in the area of maintenance and operation.
And, lo and behold, it seems that the working guy gets it i
the neck as usudl, that they got shortchanged in the budget
request to the tune of about five million, eight hundred an
twenty thousand dollars-.or.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: l'Representative Simmons, for Whavt pur
pose do you riser'
A. Simmonsr ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Amendment No. l ah.. chang d
the figure ah.. of a hundryd and thirty-five million, a hun red
and ninety-one thousand, nine hundred and eighty one to a
new figure of a hundred and thirty-five million, two hundre
and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty-three. No ,
this Amendment, that we're talking about now, takes out the
figure that we took out before. So, it is in conflict with
Amendment No. 1.''
Rep. Arthur A.' Telcser: ''I think, what you're pointing out is
what we've had all afternoon. Ah... I.. I would just sugges
that the Clerk read and insert the .proper figure to reflect
toqrvskt c E x s R A L, A s s E M u j- vk.t; . y a... r.ê ft= .k6 '. '-) & sma.r r o e. I k.u 1 st ol s
. .t.. ,/ rt'''' -, . *1 ou s s o rr Iv ce Iq c sea'r Av I w ss/1 . 1!zR 't .ty:..7-
103.
the change in the Amendment which was adopted prior-''
T. J. Hanahan: ''What weIrç talking about is five million. eig t
hundred and twenty thousand dollars, is the figure that I'm
seeking to add to the Bi1l.''
A. E. Simmons: ''Well, in this Amendment, ah.. 9, it should'
read, 'by deleting a hundred and thirty-five million, two
hundred and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty-
three' n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk informs that he's making
that change right now, Representative Simmons. Do you wish
to proceed, Representative Hanahan?''
T. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, in quee ioning the University at
the Budget Hearing in the Appropriations Committee I asked#
the University to submit a letter which I had duplicated
mb f this General Assembly. An ,and presented to every Me er o
these are the calculaticns that the University of Illinois
come up with to just maintain and operate our billions and
millions of dollars of investment in the University structu es.
Welre talking about the non-academic employees pay raises.
We're talking about the non-academic employees, whether the
be elevators constructors or painters or electricians or
brick-layers or carpenters. Welre talking about the guards.
We're talking about the people who work in the kitchens.
We're talking about thi's type of people who need pay raises.
And, acçording to the University's figurese this Amendment
ld compensate the non-academic e'mployeeq the prevailingwou
wage emplcyee, the prevailing rate èmployee and necotiate
. . i ' x. ',,'x.' ,% : %(( f Y/ 4. -h 'tcqwkc G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yr k.r .k , p j. y ?-A k . . j s v .. x. s o e' I u u I 'q o I s
* 'thl' =: ' - sousc o g. s sea c s.s .1 v ...r I v cs.f, ' ' '., r..sr:v
. ycu.
a rate employee properly. The letter reads as follows:
'We can not predict accurately what the prevailing wage rat.
changes for the entire year, 172, will be. However,
we believe, a reasonable estimate would be $861,000. Our.
Budget includes only $376,000. So, there's a defieiency
of $485,000. Numher two, if the negotiated employees in al
units of the University receive the five and a half percent
of their compensation, based on July 1st, the cost of the
State Appropriations would be $615,000. Our Budget request
provides for four and a half percent, effective December ls ,
which amount to $230,000, leaving a deficiency of .$385,000.
If pay raises wer'e given to all non-academic employees in
the Division of maintenance and operation at five and a ha
percente effective July 1st, the amount required from the
state Appropriations would be $917,000. Our Budget include
four and a half percent from December 1st, leaving a de=I
ficiency of à figure over... a deficiency of $480.000.
' I'm sure that you will understand that the figure overlapsw-e '
items l and 2 above, since the largest group of people in
the first two items is maintenance and operations staff.
To accomplish what is desirable on items l and 2 and 3 com-
bined would be $870,000. It should be noted that to establ'sh
equity for all employees of the University similar.. simila
salary and wage ehanges would be necessary. Our calculatio
of the total needs to provide salary increases of five and
half pereent, effective July 1st, 19:2 for all employees
other than those eovered in items 1, 2 and 3e,is $3,820,000.
k. .$7(w cj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YZ k. c ) c... x. . jk.o . . , s v A. v c o e I u u I N o I s' . j p. .' Q . . -. . s o u s s o yr s s e a c s c a v a y 1 v s sl w*r z'''tz6'7..
105.
If the full amount in item 3 were available, we would be...
we would still have to eliminate a large number of operatio
d aintenance. positions uniess further funds were availa-an m
ble'. Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is
exactly the problem. We have a commitment of billions of
dollars in the University of Illinois, both at Champaign-
b d the Chicago Congress Circle'and Medical CenterUr ana an1I Complex. Either we, as Members of the General Assembly,
want to see these facilities, these physical plant faciliti s
maintained and operated at proper... by properly funding
the'Appropriation Bill. I'm sick and tired of hearing that,
because welre short of funds, we 1ay off so many janitors.
We lay off so many painters and so 'many electricians. The
chicago Building Trades Council of the AFL-CIO of which an
Executive Board Member is in the audience, Benney Snygowski,
I see up in the audience and .his crew from the Painter's '
Union are here to witness that ihe Painters at the Universi y
of the Congress Circle and the University of Illinois at
the Medical Center have constantly been laid off because w ,
in the General Assembly, have failed to properly fund the
maintenance and operation figure of the University of Illin is
Appropriation Bill. urge and p'lead with you Members to ta e
care of those people who are desperately needed. Walk arou
the University. See how bad ah.. in need of repairs some o
the facilities are. See how much painte. how the electrical '
conditions and how the plumbing conditions, how the carpentr ,
the tile and carpeting is wearing out. And yet, the Uni-
. .. 4. '' . '
z.' w. q; Jl '..* z'' :..i%> ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt '. h .. . zr .. j sv a, v s o s j t. u 1 sj o j s; r.t . )
. '.). T' n7: . ... d H OUSIS C) F 1T EPn E9E N T AT 1 V CS# œ -... .->! '' . - --- -- --.
106.
i is came in with a'false budget. This Amen -versity of Ill no
ment would correct this budget. It would put back into ope a-
tion in the university a feeïing of security for the workin
people who operate and maintain the University of Illinois.
I urge the adoption of this Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tiv'e Regner.n
D. J. Regner: I'AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, I suppose if I were a University Official, I
wouldn't oppose this Amendment either because what it does
is tive them almost six million dollars additional monies
for the University of Illinois. It would provide additiona
funds for all employees, administrators, faculty, civil
service and prevailing wage personnel. If the Amendment fo
this University of Illinois Bill is intended to provide for
salary increases for only prevailing wage, to negotiate a
wage and cther maintenance and o'peration employees, the amo t
Y eded isx only a few hundred thousand dollars. The amount o
money-... That amount of money is provided in House Bill
4215 as it exists right now. If the Amendment for the Uni-
versity of Illinois Bill is intended to provide the above
salary increases plu/ additional Tunds to retain personnel,
the amount requested is still several million dollars more
than is needed. The amount of money needed to retain ah..
all necessary operation and maintenance personnel is provide
in 4215. The amount'of money included in these- . in this
Amendment would ehcourage waste and inefficiency by the
. .' ; A . ..- '..h%% . y:g rs z uqs'? 3 -n.>,' G E N E R A L A s s E M B t, Ys ,..q .d, .: Ik-kjù svxvs os Iuu,xossi o -* 1. / V ' pj o u s c o Ir a e r: a E s e: N 'r A + 1 v r s. . -yy . ;;-Ar .r; ,, , . % qç
107.
Universities rather than effective, efficient, fair and
equitable management practices. And. I would urge the defeaL
od this Amendment.'' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The
gentleman from Champaign. Representative Hirschfeld.''
J. C. Hirschfeld: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen
of the House, I .rise to support this Amendment. And, I'd
like to tell this House why. I realize that this is not in
the Governor's Budget. But, last time we had a University
ob Illinois Budget, we passed what, we thought, was a fair
increase for academic and non-academic personnel, b0th at
i it o'f Illinois. And when Representative Stonethe Un vers y , ,
Representative Clabaugh, Senator Weaver and Myself met with
the University of Illinois, we were told that therd would an
across-the-board increase for b0th academic and non-acàdemic
personnel of approximately four percent. as I remember it.
Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of this House, what happened was,
there had been commitments .made, particularly to'academicve
personnel, and in order to accomplish the across-the-board
increase for the non-academic personnel, a great number of
non-academic people had to be laid off. And, I have receivei '
j ' .literally hundreds of letters from non-academic employees
at the University of Illinois by many of whom have been
employed as many as twenty-two yeaçs, who no longer have a
job, who are unable to bump anyone else because of senority
and who will not obtain a job unle/s this particular Amend-
ment of Representative Hanahan passts. And while we are#
r'' qx 6: f N xq' z 6-,- --.,-,7, ' G s x E R A L A s s E M B L vijLï' .... . '''$f 1 ) ..< j,.; o s. .. .. j s w ,. v s o e. I u u. j ,q o I s-.4 / y5 . . . j, o w s e o g. a s e p s s e: sj w a w $ v e: s
.f. %!:'''.tr t' .- -r.
108.
kicking in an extra several millions dollars into the Budge
of the University of Illinois, which I realize is' in my
District. I'm not voting for this as a Districi Bil1# but
I'm voting for it so that the non-academic personnel can ge
a fair shake rather than just laying this money out for
salary increases for professors. assistant professo<s and
associate professors which is what has happened in the past.
And, I urge an affirmative vote on Representative Hanahan's
Amendment.''
Rep/ Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Rôck Island, Repr -
sentative Henss.''
D. A. Henss: ''Mr.'speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I'm opposed to this Amendment and other Amendments
to the ah.. other ah.. Appropriation Bills which wiii be
offered by Representative Hanahan. Actually, the money is
in these ah.. Appropriation Bills for salary increases tg
the University Personnel at the excepted rate. The issué
here is how many employees.shall there be. Recehtly. the
Board of Higher Education has written a letter, dated May
25th, ah.. regarding the very question. I'd like to quote
portions cf it. 'Salary increases for College and Universit
Employees were considered by the Board of Higher Education
to be among the highest priorities for the Illinois Higher
Education in fiscal 173. Accordingly, the Board recommended
approximately twelve million dollars for academic and non-
academic salary increases. Average increases of four percen-
for academic employee: and five and.one half percent for a1l
.' k ='.. '. ..A y A y ;.v. - .,: - );xso ?.?,2--/R> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y( kax -$ : ' $ z.x. j s v x x q: o s j u u 1 a o j sfo'
.ta.. /','-..7. . .1. sj ow ss o e a s ea ss' c lq v xv I v cs
t-ê;iq ** ' ':., !..-
109.
non-academic employees were assumed in calculating salary
increase requirementl. So. it is clear that the salary
increases, at the excepted rate, are already provided for.
The letter co'ntinues. 'In the judgement of the Board ofHigher Education. adequate resources have been recommended
to finance these increases. The fiscal 1973 Appropriation
Bill of the four University Systemsl, how get this. 'include
approximately 17.8 million dollars more for operations and
grants excluding retirement than was appropriated in fiscal
1972'. We're already faced with an increase of 17.8 million
dollars, Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Hanahan would *
add to that increase by approximately another nine million
dollars, if I understand his Amendmea t correctly to these
four ah.. ah.. A/propriation Bills. What he wants is to
have more money for janitors. more grass cutting, mcre kitch n
help, as I understood his presentation. But, that money
will have to come from some othe'r place in the Billa. If
we add rore for janitors, it will have to come frcm, say,
an academic ah.. part of the Bill. More janitors, fewer
textbooks. Less of the academic so that we can force the
Universities to have more for the non-academic. The purpose
of a University, Ladies and Gentlemen, is, not to provide a
home for jobs, the purpose is to Yench. The University
Administrators know what their total amount df their Appro-
priation Bill will be for fiscal 1973. They have made an
allocation within that total amount. If we are to raise thi
amount. there will be a corresponding decrease somewhere
...k .. . 'x.x.xz:k'' s: f! .kz .g ''jP. . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 F';t r' o:
svxvs o'- .uu.-o.sîl -;? -... (,.u 'TV ' * yj o u s s o s a s s 44 s s u sj .y A, v j v E sl $: . J. s%
110.
else in their Appropriation Bills. We should not force suc
a reallocation because it will be to the detriment of the
academic phase of Higher Education. Please vote 'no' on
this Amendment-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not,
the gentleman from McHenry, Representative Hanahany to close
the debate.''
T. Hanahan: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House,
I left off one paragraph because I knew some Representatives
may bring up the reasons why they want ah.. vote 'no' on
this Amendment. I'd like to point out that the Board of
Higher Education did not annualize the fiscal year '72
pay raises. That was supplemental and it cost $5,100 00O#
out of the existing budgets in' order to meet what Ehey
failed to do. They did 'not include the inflationary ihcreas
in the budget figures- Ande I submit to you, Ladies and.
Gentlemen, that the University of Illinoise non-academic '
employees, whether they be the janitor or the gu'ard, whetherv>-
they Be the painter cr the carpenter or teamster, it's about
time they have some equity from this General Assembly when
it comes to maintenance and operqticn's budget. Now, this
is the first time that we're bringing it to a head in the
General Assembly. And, suggest to you, Members of the
General Assembly, that, if you want the University of I1li-
nois to continue in a downward path as far as maintenance
and operations, vote 'no'. But, iè you want your University
of Illinois to be maintained to a d'egree that everyone
..g. sk. # 'kx,rkk ee' gbj -'J 77.7$ G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yê . 9 'th. t1- . .. 5T A. T'l o F I L u 1 hl o 1 S
' t z r: .6.I * . :. , H ou s u: o e' y. Een E sc N 'r-'r I v csj ,.,) a s,. !;v..,.
lll!
recommends it to be maintained at, at.. at a levql consiste
tg what you'd want with 'your own house, that yoy'd want it
clean. you'd want it protected and you'd want it operated
properly, I suggest that you vote 'aye' for this Amendment.
And, I urge you to vote ' aye ' . ''
, (j t.Rep. Arthur A . Telcser : ''The question is , shall Amen men
No. 9, to House Bill 4215 passa'. Al1 those in favor signif
by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman#
from McLean, Representative Hall.''
H. H. Hal1: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, I just don't understand the
action of this House when this money. ah.. approaching six
million dollars, was not asked for by the Higher Board, was
not asked for by the University, was not considered in the
Appropriations Committee, and now, we come here on the orde
of Seccnd Readingy.and I have a feeling that we don't under-
stand what we're voting for at a11 because this is not six
million dollars to pay prevailing wages to maintenance
employees. This is a wage for everybody at the University
irrespective of their positions and irrespective of what
other raises have already been provided for them. Previousl
. today, asked for a hundred and 'five million dollars that
had been taken out of one of the University budgets and the
House denied ah.. putting that back in. And, here we are
adding nearly six million dollars Eo a budget that was never
even asked for by the University. I recommend that we vote
this down, this Amendment, that is not substantiating the
talk that was given in favor of it because it is not only
,,t ,w t) ' exVo, GENERAL ASSEM BLYt4
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.''.(: zz r. .. . sowsc og aseacsselvaylv c:s, ' '
x! at; %* ' . . . .. . - --
112.
for maintenance employees. which... as the gentleman said
amounted to $800,000. but we're increasing this si'x million
ddllars. And, I ask you, 'where is six million'dollars com'ng
from to support this Amendmenta'.''
Rep. Arkhur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#
tive Lechowicz.''
T. S. Lechowicz: ''.Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle-
men of the House, in explaining my 'aye' vote. this Bill was
discussed in committee. These questions were raised in the
Ap'propriations Committee. And, in turn, the Presidents of t e
' various Universities responded to us in letter explaining! the fact that they were not permitted to include the true
operating and maintenance costs in their budget request to
the Bureau of the Budget. We asked them, in good faith.
what in their estimation they needed for proper mai' ntenane# '
and operating cosis in their respective Universities. Thes
are the figures that they have submitted. These are the
figures that we are voting for. And, I hope, that this Amen -.M
ment is adopted.''
Rep. Arkhur Telcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take the
record. Representative ah.... Take the record. On this
question, there are lO7 'Ayes' and 42 'Nays' and the gentle-
man's motion to adopt Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4215,
' prevails. Are there.-.. Representative Miller for what#
purpose do you rise, Sira''
I I '
sP. J. Miller: Well, I want to interrupt. Mr. peaker, the
proceedings ah.. to make a very vital announcement of some
,z' * ' jj sl ,/ o :. i.''T.'> # G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- k'k .t'1. ' ' $ .. ',g.â j. . .. t! s'r A. 'r ç: o e' 1 L L l hl o 1 s. j. ? E . . s cj s a s e s s s u oj 4. x .r j u s s. . . H O U Gf -. . yrv.....z.!:--
113.
great fellas up in the Gallery, up to my right there, Ben
syngowski, the President of all the Painters in the State,
the District Painter's Council and Frank Bryant. the Vice-
Chairman of the International. Would you stand up. Syngowsk'
and Bryant? Two great guys. Let's give.. give them a hànd-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Third
Reading. Now, if we can go back to House Bill 4211. Is
Representative Henss on the floor? Yeah.. House Bill 4211.
If you'll recall, Representative Hanahan had offered an
Amendment which was....''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 6, Hanahan, amend Hcuse Bill
4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, and on Line 15 by
striking '$19,905,142, and inserting in lieu thereof .$20,....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenryy Repre-
sentative Hanahan-''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Yes, Mr. S/eaker, Amendment No. 2 simply does
this, adds....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nAmendment No. Amendment No. 6....e-e
T. J. Hanahan: ''Oh! Amendment No. 6, excuse me, to House Bill
4211 adds $812,912, to the personal services account of the
Illinois Stâte University and it .adds $951,900 to the Northe ni '
Illinois University to do the identical thing that we just
evaded on the University of Illinois. And, this is to take
care of the maintenance. and operation employees, the non-
academic employees at these two Universities that were not' 1figured in the budget as submitted'to the Appropriations '
Committee. And,... And, instead of going through a lot of ;' j
. . .. -> . e .: 'q$.y('A : ' x ' '. ' . '.N. . . :à .enzl-'î':ts : G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y ' . x .R 'u ' ! .' ' ' ) 2r..3 j s v. x .r s o s j u u j sl o , s 'k -..flt...a r:...r. soùss os aceasscsvwv'wssA x .e'
t; t..q ! 4 l
'
e .#' .
114.
dialogue like we... I think, the same Roll Call, that we ha
on th'e previous Bill, 1'11 accept that on this Amendment
(; 11 'No. .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlepan from Rock Island, Repre
sentative Henss-''
D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this is the Amendment that was not
in proper form iwhile ago. I would like to have the Clerk
read the.. the ah.. figure's to just make sure. I believe,
that he probably has put it in a proper form. But ah.., I'd
like to hear it.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Will the Clerk please read the Amend-' menta''
Fredric B. selcke: nAmendment No. 6, amend House Bill 4211,
as amended, on Page section on Line l5, by striking
'$19 905 142. and inseriing in lieu thereof .$20 7l8 054.)' # . ' # .
and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 27 by striking 1$25,125,0411
and inserking in lieu thereof 1$25,937,953'2 and on Page 1,
Section 1, Line 29, by striking .$25,734,815, and inserting
in lieu thereof 1$26,686,715'2 and on Page 2, Section 1,
Line 5, by striking 1$32,864,915' and inserting in lieu
thereof .$33,816,815. and on Page 2, Line 3l, by striking
. '$65,674,598' and inserting in lieu thereof '$67,439,410,.'.
D. A. Henss: ''Well: Mr. Speaker, I believe, that the Amendment
probably is in a proper' form now. ah.. do not agree to th
figures.....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, for what pur-
pose do you risean
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$:7 ) : : 'T a !, .: f ..k. . ,3. . svxvc oe , uul,q o's. . . (.p n.r . . . g. a ses s sc sjv av j u ss. . / Boklsl o,. +%*V
115.
A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. I'd like to ask if we adopted Amendment
No. 4. If we did. this one is in conflict with it.''
Rep.'Arthur A. Telcser: ''We1l, let's see if we diè, Represent -
tive Simmons. Amendment No. 4 lost, Representative Simmons.
So, we're in good shape for now. Representative Henss, do
you wish to proceed, Sir?''
D. A. Henss: ''I ah.. would like the Membership to know that
I'm opposed to it. However, I gave my speech of ah.. in
opposition ah.. when this ah.. similar Amendment was adopted
to the ah.. ah.. University of Illinois Budget just a fewmoments ago. It seems to me that ah.. alike Amendment will
probably be adop'ted to all of these ah.. Amendatory'ah..
ah.. all of these Appropriation Bills in Higher Education
and that we can very well get on with the business 'of the
House in that manner-'' '
Rep. Arthur A Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The
question is,.... Do you wish to close, Representative
Hanahan?''
T. Hanahan: ''Same Roll Call Mr. Speaker.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe question is# 'shall Amendment
No. 6, to House Bill 4211 be adopteda'. All those in favor
signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have
all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question,
there are 95 'Ayes' 27 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to#
adopt Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4211, prevails. Are
there further Amendments? Third Rëading. House Bill 4374.'.I
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Houqe Bill 4374, an Act to make an appro-
s : .1 fo '? /*)ps G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yx k.'?.& i ; yu j-'k l . ; s'ra-rs oe l t-ulN oIsf. :w( ; =:.. . s o s a sea sss hj v.x v I v ssv. . . H Qtlsq x+t-tr'' r-
116.
priation, reappropriation to the Bôard of Governors of
State Colleges and Universities. Second Reading of the Bil .
Four Committee Amendments. Comlittee Amendment No. amen
House Bill 4374 on Page 1: andsofortho''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-
sentative Campbell.''
C. Campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladieg and Gentlemen of th
House, at the offset, let me say that ah.. thete are four
committee Amendments which I opposed in Committee but which
I am going to move to adopt now with the understanding that
ah... I'm going to offer four additional Amendments that hav .
been agreed to on 10th sides of the aisle. And, as far as
Co=nittee Amendment No. ai.. this Amendment ah.. came
to the... increas'es the amount of personal services and it
also transfers some items within capital. And, as a result
it has a net loss of a hundred or a reduction of $175.,229.
And, I move the adoption of Committee Amendment No.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentlevA '
man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment
No. 1, to House Bill 4374. Al1 in favor of the adoption
signify by sœ ing 'aye', opposed 'no' the Amendment is# 'i adopted. Further Amendments?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2', qmend House Bill 4374
on Page 14, andsoforth.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-
sentative campbell.''
campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
sv. '0 A xxw' s%%% l t'> ..h tsrws'k G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yvu.J ' x .k ,., .q jê A :. .J sva-ru oe Iuulaols'lt/ z =: .
.- ). r . eouss o s n censsssvxvlv ss* ', v . f)3*...71...- .
117.
the House, Committee Amendment No. 2 actually cuts six
millibn, five hundred and seven thousand dollars. And, I
move for the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 2.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there apy discussion? The gentle
man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment
No. 2, to House Bill 4374. Al1 in favor of the adoption
signify by sayihg 'aye' the opposed 'no' the Amendment# #
is adopted. Are there fur'ther Amendments?''
Fredric B. Seleke: nCommittee Amendment No. amend House
Bill 4374 on Page l4, Section l0, andsoforth.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, for what
purpose do you rise, Sir?''
Simmons: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I believe, Number 3 con-
flicts with Number
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Just one moment and we'll take a loo
at it. Where does it conflict, Representative Simmons?u'
A. E. Simmons: ''Well, on ah.. Number ah.. Number 2. On Page
l4, Section l0, Line 18 aht. Amendment No. 3 should read,Z
ah.. ah.. 1$25,87... $25:878,8371 instead of the .$32,8..j ' 386,375'. And, it should also read, 'as amendedl-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk .could have changed the
Committee Amendmenk to ah.., unless there are objections.
Ah.. ah.. apparently, merely only a technical Amendment... a
technical change. Well then, the Chair will have to rule
that that Amendment is out of order. Representative Campbel. #
do you wish to ah..
C Campbell: ''We11, I think wedre in''the same position here
..c . u. . )-'-xj % 4 v v#% . G EN ERA L ASSEM BL;j!' ..'?L '... !, 21 tjg: r. a.!t . eA) svxv.s o.r Iuujso's. C.V 'J' @ . ' g a cp s c sjz hjy A,v jv Es. z H (; kl R 62 o*t$J .., &e%!z?
'- - . . w - ..... -.. . . ... ' '
l 18 .
as we ' vo 'Lixen a1l af ternoon . And ah . . ah . . , f ee1 that the
. 'Qlterk. ual . r-èzange those f igures . ''>. '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''well,'the difference is, it's a
''Cooa ittee Amendment, Representative Campbell rather than an
Amendment cffered from the flcor. Ah.. ''
C- Campbell: ''Well, there will be an additional Amendment
offered to this which will change this Yigure, as amended.''
Rtj..'''Arthuz A.'-'relcser: ''Alright.. Representative Campbell,. J ' ..what the practice has been is to ah.. ah.. table Amendment
3 and then resubmit a corrected Amendment with a sub-
seqnent number . ''
C . Campbell : !'Well . could we . . . . ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you want 'tc take it out of the
recorda''
C. Campbell: nLet's take this out of the record for a moment-''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''And ypu can do it that way. And,#
that would then take care of the' conflict with Amendment
No. 3. Welre taking this out of the record with Amendment
Numbers 1 and 2 adopted and we're leaving it on Second Read-
.ing. Is thut correct? Amendments Number l and 2 have been
adopted. We're leaving the Bill on the order of Second Read
ing. We'll eome back tp it when the Amendments are properly
fixed. Okay? House Bill 4294...
Fredric B. SelcAe: ''House Bill 4294, a Bill for an Act to pro-
vide for thez ordinary and contingent expenses of Southern
Illinois Unizersity. . Second Reading of the Bi11. One
.committee Am'mdment. Amend House Bill 4294 on Page 6, Line
. *. .,-- . * .. -' '=4'.Q* ,.' ' ' % G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y:) j, u . . -777,. .iç svxvu o,r Iuulsols'
...V.-. - '- eouss o.r aueasssxvxvlvcs...V'. . .. . . / . - . . -N't.%-,a. . .
119.
35, by striking '2,500,000', and inserting in lieu therecf
'4 lO6 500'...# #
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Jaekson: Represent -
tive Williams.''
J. B. Williams: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, Committee Amendment No. l simply. on Page 6,.Line 35,
strikes '2e500,00O'e and inserts in lieu thereof '4el06'500'.
This Amendment has been approved by the State Board of Highe
Education and it has been approved by the Bureau of the Budg t.
And, I would move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1.,'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man's has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendmen
No. to House Bill 4294. All in favor of khe adoption
signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no': the Ame/dment is
adopted. Are there further AmendmentsP'' '
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 24 Hanahan, amends House Bill 4294
on Page 9: by inserting immediately below Line 2 the follow-
ing: 'Section l4. Any expenditures under this Xct must be
spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as
established by public policy'w''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry, Represent -
tive Hanahan.n
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, once
again, this is an Amendment to insvre the faet that the
state Appropriation is spent in compliance with the establisAed
public policy of paying prevailing'wage. I move the adoptio
of Amend... of this Amendment.''
>- - - - . , , ...2'%'q . $) .. syla > @ GENERAL ASSEMBLYk-k't .-. r ..s : vs o e , uul s o I st f. a s'r-
. ..( z .r. . . ..r u z uousE olr aEielve:sceqnra'rlxlcs'. ...D %5''
120.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man'has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.
to House Bill 4294.0 All those in favor signify by saying
'aye' opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted. Are there# #
further amendmentsa''
'srien: ''Amendment uo. Hanahàn, amends House Bill 4294J. O ,
as amended, on Page l in Line' 12 by deleting ,57,425,140',
and inserting in lieu thereof '57,961,158.7 and in Line 25
by deleting 164,274,9001, and inserting in lieu thereof
'74 8l0 7186.''# #
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman frcm McHenry, Repre-
sentative Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Amendment No. 3, Mr. Speaker and Members of
the House. is similar to the Amendment that we adopted on
the University of Illinois ah.. Budget. It increases, accor -
ing to the letter received from Southern Illinois University
Board of Trustees, dated May 22nd and discussed before the
Appropriations Committee, suggests that at Soùthern Illinois
University at Carbondale and at Edwardsville, they will be
short $241,635 on the prevailing wage rates and on the
anticipated negotiated wag/ rates at S.I.U. at Carbondale
and at Edwardsville. the will be bhort $250,129 and the othe
non-academic employees in operation and maintenance at S.I.U
at Carbondale and at Edwardsville will be shcrt $35..34,254.
This Amendment, which approximately adds five hundred and
thirty some thousand dollars to the budget, is in accordance
with our wishes ah.. to thoroughly maintain and operate cur
- '- - U ' '*t 'e r?Jup '7cx - ' G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y<LQ ) S .A. ù '1' :kx.. . svxxe oe Iuul-odsr- 'n. .J.* LrZ, , ' s o u s c o er n s e R s s E: pI 'r A v d v e: s .#z. ss*,
yay.' h h sical plant area of SoutherUniversity commitments on t e p y
Illinois University. And, I urge the adoption of Amendment
No .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any diseussion? Roll Calï?
Is there any discussion? Roll Call has been requested on
this ah.. question. The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 3
to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. A1l those in favor signif
by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted
who wished? Take the record. Tim Simms.. 'aye'. R. Carter .. *
'aye'. On this question, there are 97 'Ayes' and 23 'Nays'
and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 3, to Hous
Bill 4294, prevails. Are there further Amendments?''
O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall, amends Hous8 Bill 4 94,
as amended, on Page section Line 12 by deleting#
:$57,425,140% and inserting in lieu thereof '$57,205,840')
and on'page 1, Line 1, Section 1, Line 13e by deleting
1$7,747,200' and inserting in lieu thereof '$7,740,200.). '
and on page 1,' section 1, Line 14 by deleting '$6l8,O00t# anA'
inserting in lieu thereof '$615,000'2 and on Page 1. section
1, Line l5, by deleting '$2,633,400% and inserting in lieu
thereof 1$2,625,400.) and on Page 1, Line 1... Page 1, Sec-
tlon 1, Line 16 by skriking '$le9lO,lO0'e and inserting in
lieu thereof $1.844,100'; and on Pag e Section 1, Line 25,
by deleting '$74,274,700% and inserting in lieu thereof
'$73,971,400'..'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McLean, Representa/
tive Hall.''
....;' ' a ; ' w, hb> '. GEN ERA L ASSEM BLY. e4r.-l .î v !* . %(g'' *.'r' : l .* * Y' A Y EE * P' ' L L' ' 61 O ' S'. , H o u s e: o s R c e a e s c .4 'r x v 1 v s s .* .
yrz.
H. H. Halkz ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
this Amendmeni reduces, I believe, itf: the last Amendment' to this ap/r6priation. reduces thë appropriation for Souther
Illin'oik. University in total amount of $303,300. Now, this
amount was appropriated and requested for the established
month of a Law School at Southern Illinois University. In
questioning of the Presidenty.president Dirge of Southern
at Carbondale. the only plan that they have is to hirer a
Chief Administrator of the Law Schoolf a Dean, ah.. and theyhave no further plans. But, the want to develop a Law Schoo
down there. And, I submit to this House that, at the rate
of Law Students being graduated throughout the Country. as
stated by the American Bar Association, we will be, aE least
fifteen thousand Lawyers exceeding the number of available . .
l positions for Lawyers in just a matter of three years. OnI
your desk, you will find distributed information of this
type. the leading one to conclude that we need no more Law
Studeoats ah.. no more new Law Schools in Illir is and one
should not go into the planning stage. particularlye in
Southern Illinois and, particularly , at this time. We have
just increased the University of Illinois' Budget by over
million dollars for expanding the Law school there. And,
would submit that, if any new Law Schools were to be con-
sidered, one should consider the Area arcund Sangamon County
as a possibility for a new School. We find in.. in ah.. ah. .
studies of the population.of this State that only fifteen
pereent of the population in Illinois live beyond a line
k *.)s* ' ' -,zJ' .i/ ' -' a/?;- J '1tP r G E N E R A L A S S E h. 1. B L Y; '=V) . J r3t sva'rc o!r , uulN o,ss% ' ; .* %'h.* --2:7** ' ' s o u s c: o e R c e s c s r.: N v A. v 1 v c s ., . ..T/t.. ,
. yra.
drawn East West and crossing here at Springfield. And yet,
the only concrete reason given by President Dirge for re-
questing this money was that.they need more Lawyers in
Southern Illinois. I would say to you this, that is twenty
percent of the Lawyers at the University of Illinois come
from out of the State, surely eighty to eighty-five percent
of those, who would enroll in Law Schools, should we build
one at Southern, would come from the States of Missouri,
Kentucky and Indiana. Ladies and Gentlemen, we must use
fiscal responsibility in these budgets. We have, today,
increased the total outlay by the state in the Area of....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcs'er: ''Representative Slmmons, for what pur-
pose do you rise, Sir?''
A. E. Simmons: ''Mr.. Speaker, I believe, that ah.. 'ah.. Amend-
ment Number 3 ah.. conflicts with Number 4 or vice versa or
4 with 3..,
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Four'' with 'three. Letss take a look.
'That's a floor Amendment. Right? Ah.. Representative Simmo s,.--* '
this reflects the same type of conflict we've had all after-
noon on floor Amendments. Ah.. the Clerk informs me that
he could make the correction b0th in'the Title of the Amend-
ment and also ih the figure which would reflect the adoption
of Amendment No. Representative Lechowiez fcr what pur-#
pose do you riser'
T. s. Lechowicz: ''Mr. Speaker, I believe. you ruled previously
that the ah.. Amendment will be taken 8ut of the record so
the proper figures could be inserted. And then, we ah.. get1l .
I ,.3;3*% .1 ':h s'7?>-s G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YJ kz::$ )à.h)j sxxxc os ,uul-o,sw o., . ..
4 '*t 2 i:'.. ' +. . u o kl s E2 o F a E7 F: IR E s E pl T A. T I v E7 s'u i V't?..-. .
. la4.
back to' the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Wel1, that was a Committee Amendment,
ah.. Representative Lechowicz.''
TJ S. Lechowicz: ''Well, actually. this was also in Committel
and then.....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Was this avcommittee Amendment? Iim
under the impression...o''
T. S. Lechowicz: ''No, it was discussed in Committee. But, in
turn, it was never ah.. brought forward as far as an action
' as far as the Commitkee. And, I Uas hoping that the Speaker
would ah.. rule again, like he has done previously. that we
take this item out of the record momentarily sc that we coul
have it clarffied. I'd like to see the Amendatory..n '''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well' ah . .-''
#
< .H . H. Hall : ''Ah . . Mr . Hpeaker, ah . . this is a relatively ah . .
simple 'Amendment either to prepare or to understand. It ' s
ah . . . It ' s ah . . only one amount f or one purpose and the
figures could be readily changed ah.. if the gentleman conc de
to that. Otherwise, I will pull it out. But, I believe,
that it could be very readily ah.. changed.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you persiste Representative Lecho-
wicz? The Sponsor indicates that he would withdraw... with-
hold it. And, we'would then hold it on the order of Second
Reading. However, to be consistent, the Chair has ruled
all day today ah.. that floor Amendments that reflect thes '# #
conflicts, were corrected by the Clerk. Vowever. the gentle
man indicates, you wish, he will.....''
'q .L TIj'A , . .,''' ' w. xgke-;'7x'' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yë%:' e ')$.,.. 'kt '. . i ) œ SYATE oF 1 uLl>IolsP'
, .t , ?. . .* .. . . z uou s e: o e' n c Ipa csc pl'r A-r 1 v c st oh* V ''fz p .. . : 5 ..
la5.
oT . Lechbwicz : ''No. 1: ' m sorry, Mr. peaker, I thought . yOu
ruled to the contrary . I with . . . withdraw my ah . . . . . ''
' Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''On ah . . On a Committee Amendmeni . ''
T . S . Lechowicz : ''Yes . .'
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''Okay. . ''
H. H. Hall : ''Ah . . thank you , Mr . Lechowicz . ''
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : '' Proceed S ir . ''. #
H. H. Hall: ''We note, in considering the advisability of
establishing a new public law school in the State, that the
enrollment in Law Schools has increased twenty percent ah..
year before last and fifteen percent last year. And, thia
year, in ah.. on the order of somewhere between fifteen and
twenty percent. I do not think that it is incumbent .upon th
state of Illinois to even pian a new Law school at th is time
facing these statistics let alone fund a new Law School. I
think,'that we have amply provided for those who would enter
into the Law at a State University just this day by increasi g
by over fcur million dollars the Law Department at the Uni-
versity. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
would also draw to your attention that according to some#
Law Authcrities. that to provide an overabundance of Lawyers
on our market, will create a situation where the Lawyers are
making work for themselves in order to keep busy. This can
be a very dangerous thing in our ah.. Nation when ah.. Lawye s
ah.. find ah.. find the law useful to themselves in order
A his Body in consideringto make work. h.. suggest that t ,
a possibility of further outlays after this year on the orde
-----uz :' ' ' '28'> ' GENERAL AsssM Buv1 yj(.,; . j2 t :2 .? âr.'
,j svaxc o,r , uul-o's. t .,? rl - .' . HQkl SE o F R EPR E: SE N T A.T 1 */ E sT't) a .. . 5;:, *
126.
Of eicht millicn dollars for a new... for a new ah.. buildin
and n'ew plant to a millian, five hundred thousand dollars
for faculty and operational cost, nct to mention the cost
of a new Law Libr... ah.. the.. the contents of a New Law
Library, is going to be wastefule is going to be unneeded
and it.. worse than that, it's going to provide us with an
excess of Lawyers who have nothing to do except change the
Law' to provide more work that really isn't needed. I'ask
that you support the adoption of this Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Jackson, Repre-
sentative Williams.''
J. B. Williams: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, and I know that it's been warm in here and I sometime
wonder if the gentleman, that just spoke, has had a heat
stroke of some kind. Of a1l of the conversation that we've
had this afternoon about how... what... how great the need i
for Lawyers in the State of Illinois and for a Member to sta d
on the floor of this House and to imply of al1 places toA'
have one is in southern Illinois. I hope that he'll make
the same speech when I.S.U.'S Bill comes up and maybe we can
doctor it a little bit. The Law School for Southern Illinoi
University has been authorized by the State Board of Higher
Education. Their Bill has been approved by the Bureau of
the Budget. It has the backing of the Governor of Illinois.
And, I think, a11 of those people certainly are in a better
position tc pass judgement where tie need should be. I thinu
that this is an extremely bad Amendlent. didn't hear him
-.kqv kj. *'.Jv' -;.. . f *7:5 f ,- G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yë Qzft-: ? z,.>.1 2 i: e. j uujx oIst. . ; sva.r o. : 'j z v:. ' . '+< . / H o LI % E D F R E P Fl E 5 E - T A T I V e: S
l27
aking that speech awhile ago when they were expanding ihem
i k thi t i t wa s aLaw School at the U. of I . He seemed to th n
gdod deal to have it up there. Well, I'm here Eo tell you .
that there is a*tremendous need for a Law Sehool in Southern
Illinois University. And, it has been authorized by people
who are in a position to know where the need is most... wher
the need is the greatest. And. I would urge the defeat of
this Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman fm m Cook, Representa-
tlve Palmer-''R. J. Palmer: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'd like
to speak in favo'r of the Amendment and it's not because of
any discrimination against Southern Illinois University or
Southern Illinois. It's just as worthy as any othet sectionof the state to receive .something of this nature. Bu't; as
the distinguished Majority Leader stated before, we needmoney for Medical Schools. We need more money for a 1ot of
things in this State and we have Lawyers coming öut of the
Law Schools too many to fill the positions that ah.. or to d
anything with actually practice Law. And, I would call your
attention to a.. a ah.. pamphlet or a sheet. that was circul -
ted, New York Times, Sunday, Pebruary 6th, which, I think, i
an accurate statement. It contains accurate statements wher -
in they state. 'with no increase in Law Schocls, the annual
rate of graduates will reach about 30,000 by 1974. But, the
Department Labor estimates that the average annual openings
for Lawyers until 1980 will be about 14,500'. And, that wou d'
v'U.I.s% . G ENER AL A SSEM BLY
I rjv.r.. e>. svxvs oc Iuulsols. ' ' .'.* . ': .* '$ ! . '' s obss o F IR EeR c s c N 'r A.'r j v Es. j, .. p.2...-
l28
be per year. Now, it's a question 'of priorities here in
.lAlinols. We don't need any more Lawyers.' It's not a ques-
tion ofu. of trying to maintain ah.. the profession as it is.
It's nct. n qu'estion of bright. young Lawyers coming out of
Law school: and replacing older hats. It will take a long
time for them to do that. Takes about five years, after
you''ve graduated, to become a Lawyer, às any Lawyer in this
'.,zHouqe reaTlqz' knows. But, we don't need any more appropria-. .j! .
tions in this direction. Wefve got enough Lawyers. We need
'tbe =oney for something else. And, I would suggest that we
'get.about the business of this House and put the money where
it's really. needed, Medical Schools or any other place where
the money is needed. I ask for the support of the Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Te1 œ br: ''The gen tleman from Franklin, Repre-
sentative Hart.''
R. 0. Hart: ''Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentl =
men of the House. Ah.. with all' due respect to the last ah..'
éon who spoke on this Amendment I believe he missedper , , ,' .x .
the point completely. Now, there... as you all know there#
. has been a long range master plan for Higher Education in th
State of Illinois. This has been ah.. promulgated and re-
vised ah.. from time'to time. The long range plan for Highe
Education in Illinoisy in the legàl field, provides as
1 follows: rpuble the size of the Law School at the Universit
j of Illinois and place a Law School on the Carbondale Campusj . '
of southern Illinois .university. Now, those people, that
were entrusued to devise this plan, have given a lot more
-. V.L . .. . .. .....- vk. . ç 'x .
.J . j 5)! 2. -o u. .. =. T'--?->/ j . . G E N E R A L A S S E M I 3 L Yt' .% 'i'eq.t '.l j . t y ' I .. . j . s T A. T c o !# j t. u I N o 1 sx '.(x ; 'z. ' . o u s u: o g. a u e a s s s a q. A, 1. j v s s. ' xyy bllu rr, .p
!zaq.
study to it than, with al1 respect to the two gentleman who
are supporting this Amendment, than either one of them have
ever thought about. We have a lot of complaints from
constituents throughout the Southern part of the State,
throughout the entire part of the State, as Representative
Fary pointed out awhile ago, to the effect that you can't
get into Law School. And, th> problem was ah.. that you
don't understand about this particular Bill is, that in the
i Rural Downstate small Communities, we don't have enoughti, '
.Lawyers. Wedre not graduating any Lawyers fcr those small
towns. And, wetre the jobs of State's Attorney and other
important positions go for the asking. The job of State's
Attorney is becoming a sounding board for.. for a young'
Lawyer to get experience at'the expense and ah.. and without
Law Enforcement. It's a very important position. You canlt
get...' You can't get people from the City to live in small
towns. I think, most people know that. And, what we need
to do is to provide access from the small towns to educate
Lawyers who will then be willing to move back to the small
towns. I donlt care if youlve got fifty thousand extra
Lawyers in Chicago, we need them in Southern Illinois in the
Rural Downstate Communities. Andv this is the purpose of
this Law School among other things. We don't have too many
Lawyers. The Supreme Court is continually imposing burdens
upon the Bar Association to defend people without compensa-
tion ah.. at all stages of proceedings. They just recently,'
this week, said that everybody's entitled to a Lawyer in any
z.yj .; oiy4 ;D, G ENE RA L A SSEM BLY2 t..t'' t ) ...,, gw p t . ; s 'r a 'r E o e' , u u I èl o I s
. 'W , / ,=' L * s ou sc o F R e:eH Es u7 NTA.'F 1 v es .?. ' hh*u'v s..@ . .
1 ... .>
130.
case, at al1 timps, if there's a criminal penalty involved.
In our Area, we don't have enought people to represent those
persons. Weere afraid to go into the Court House for a fear
that we're going to get appointed to defend somebody anymore.
And, we have lots of people in our District and in the oEher
Districts who want to go to Law School who are qualified by
way of their education, but they can't get in because of the
limited space now available in Illinois. These are the kind
of things that were... were considered in the ah.. master .
plan. And, the results are that they recommend that the
Carbondale Campus have a Law School. Now, this.. this ah..
idea was kicked around in the Appropriations Committee ah. . y
Representative Hall and the others . And, it was ah . . not
roposed at that time . And, I believe , that it wa's theP
feeling of the Appropriations Com ittee, I know it ' s tie
feeling of the Board of Higher Education and ah.. those othe s
who are involved in Higher Education in Illinois, that now i
the time to begin. Ande we would like to have this appropri -
tion remain in this Bill so that we can begin to educate
Lawyers to take their place in the Rural Downstate Communi-
ties ah.. in many of our Districts. And ah... I know, that
there are many of your Districts where there are small towns
where they don't have Lawyers, where they need them, there i
a need for more Lawyers in Illinoi: and this Bill would pro-
vide it.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlemân from Union, Representa-
' .. .. > ''''
ogbvjyzxh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YJ s. r 'ja, tf.l $ I . . Yj s T A. T *: D F d t. L 1 b1 O I se ,*(.. ) Q'' 'e * . pj o u' s z o g' a c e R c s c h1 T' A T I v e: set ' s;p 'u .. J
, 131.
C. L. Clyde: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House. thinke that my Colleague, Represehtative Hart. has
adequately explained why thi: is an ill-advised Amendment.
Maybe welve m'issed the basic issue involved here. Maybe
the issue involved is a fact, not whether we need more Lawye s
or not, but whether we want more Lawyers or not. Down in
Downstate, like Representative Hart has' said, there is a
dyer shortagç of Lawyers. You can't find Lawyers to fill
the vacancies on the tickets to become candidates for State'
Attorney in a great number of your Counties in Scuthern
Illinois. The Higher Board of Education,. as well as peoples w
from other Universities, have agreed on the master plan that
Representative Hart spcke about. And, let me tell you some-
thing, don't tell' me that it's easy to get into Law School
in this State because, if you'll come back in my Office and
view my mail with me, you'll find that there's many return-
ing veterans from Viet Nam, both men and women, anxiously
awaiting an opportunity to further their education by enteri g
Law School somewhere in the State of Illinois. Now, I say
to you that this is taking the seed of education where it'
desperately needed and that's in the Southern most portion o
this State. I hope that we defeat this Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlem' an from Kane: Representa-
tive Waddell.''
R. B. Waddell: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has moved the previous
question. A1l those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the
1 'v*%%% Q- ' 'W! '' z). t:-;?x. * t G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' ; *- kr ') ly k svxvs os Iuul-ojsi t? ' '
: .. . V T' *.> . *1 ouss o e. R sea sse: a 'r A.'r I v ssi '''t. .'....Vs - - . .
opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the#
gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall, to close the
debatee''
H. H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker, in closing the debate, will attemp
to answer some of the questions in argument of those who
favor a study to provide a new Law School at Southern
Illinois. First of all, do not think it's practical to
say that, merely by establishing a Law School in the Souther
part of the State, that it's graduates are going to practice
and relieve a shortage of Lawyers in that Area. When we
speak of State's ah.. candidates for State's Attorneys, we
find thers are shortagos of candidates for State's Attorneys
throughout this State not just in Southern Illinois.' A11
small counties are having the same problem. And. essentiall ,
it's because of the salary level. When we speak about pos-
sibiliiies of shortages of legal advise and legal attorneys,
legal practitioners in Southern Illinois, why don't we:
at the same time: admit that we don't have enough Doctors
down there. We don't have enough Industry dewn there,
perhaps. We just don't have enough people down there. And,I th'ink, it would be a serious mistake for the State to
educate students from Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana at our
Law School in Southern Illinois when I know, first hand, of
students. who are going to night school at Dean Nobilis Law
school in Chicago who work all day long and go down and
attend Law School at night. And, they will find a way to
get their Law Degree. And ah.w dc so ah.. in addition to
'J * 51 ' 'e f vrrz'tnêr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L, Yv Y . $ aj aa jrx kcak. . ) s'rl'rs oe 1 uulN o ls$
. ' U''' ' ** . . Hotl SE D F R E PR ESE MT A.Y I V E 5 ..rt.r? z -. . ç.x.
2 -.z'
133.
holding down a full time job. I don't think that it's in-
cumbent upon the state o.f Illinois to open up advanced de-
grees in a11 Areas of Education throughout the State simply
nn the basis of location and situs. We have an outstanding
Law school at the University of Illinois. And, when the'
gentleman refers to my favoring one Law school and not an-
other, I think, perhapse that's a fallacy and the fault that
we experience in this Genéral Assembly when we engage in
some logrolling. Pre... Presumably, if I supported ah..
an increase in appropriations for a Law school in Il1i... at
the University of Illinois, I should do likewise for any
other University who applied for the same type of funding.
This is a mistake and I would not care to engage in it. I
think, we have here the possibility to slow down a program
that has been over-heated up,cthat is, establishing a n:w
school for Attorneys ai a' university that has not prepared
itself for it and will not provide a total service to the
total State of Illinois. And. I would ask for your 'green'
lights on this Amendment-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment
No. 4, to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. All those in favor
signify by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. The
gentleman from Dupage, Representative Hudson, to explain his
votez The gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers.''
Borcherp: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, in
explaining my vote of 'yes' on this Amendmen t, we have.. I
live in Decatur and we have really d' glut of ah . . young
VA4%. v'.ko ' G EN ERA L ASSEM BLY
. T-'t ' ') àe , 'j;.. ç.X .J .. j w'r a 'r e o p' 1 u u I p: o I s. $1;t- z =.. . . '- H ou s.E o F R e: BR Es E NT A T' 1 v e:s
q Y
'
134.
Lawyers in our Community. Theydre'not... Some of them are
not doing too good. We've even had a little trouble gettin
a young man ah., to run for étate's Attorney. Now ah.., I
suggest, with the increasing number of Lawyers in the next
few years, that Decatur is going to get more than their shar .
And, with another year or so, they will not be able to make
a l'iving there. Ah.. by sheer necessiEy. they're going to
have to move.into Southern Illinois to get something ah..
some business going. But, I do want to point out to Souther
Illinois people. since I am on the edge of this Areap that
the'people are leaving Southern Illinois. There's no guaran *
tee ah.. that Lawyers from a University in Soutbern Illinois
w il1 stay and live and work and practice in Southern Illinois.
' They're going to do like all the rest of the people... the
young people are doing. They're going to try to go to
chicago or Decatur. Why, if le get many from Southern
Illinois, Peoria and other place's of greater population.
So, I think, we should start the practice of going to theA '
tremendous expense of the millions of dollars that'll take
to establish a new Law School.''I .l Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-I .
I '' tive Hyde.''
H. J. Hyde: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, it is .futile to ah.. argue
against the ah.. ah.. prevailing mocd because, obviously,
this Amendment ah.. ah.. is not going tq prevail. Bpt, I..
I think, those who are not paying a great deal of attention
ought to notice that, if there was real sincere desire to
..k k '-.w;i .o 8. q:> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. (6 ' ' , ) (hv'.u $- :1 '. ' 3 z s 'r .. v e o e . u u I 'q o ' s%t; ;k,..- .* < ' PIGU 9Z O F F1 CP R CS E NT A.W' 1 V CS44.u o4,
135.
help pebple go to Law School in Southern Illinois rather
than the Empire Building, this Law School would be built in
' Edwardsville near East St. Louis near the population where
people could commute, where they wo lldn't have to change
their residence, where more people would be available and
accessible to the Law School to get this legal education.
But instead, this Law School is being put down in Carbondale
and it is a further example, in my judgement, of well-inten-
tion, but nonetheless, ah.. ah.. defilite empire building
and designed, not primarily to se>vice the Community and the
Public, but to ah.. add another jewel in the crown of Car-
bondale-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a1l vcted who wished? Take. the
record. Qn this question, Vhere are 40 'Ayes', 'Nays'
and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 4, to Heuse
Bill 4294, fails. Representative Hudson, for what purpose
do you rise, Sir?''
G. Hudson: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,xe
in the Balcony. to my righty are three lovely Ladies from
Dupage County representing the American Field ah.. Service...
Services. And: they have with them a group of eleven or
twelve students from ah.. various. parts of the World, ah..
students here from Germany, Viet Nam, Peru: East Africa,!
South Africa, Yugoslavia. Ireguay: Belgium, zngland,
Ecuador and Australia. They have spent the morning ah..
touring New Salem and ah.. our environments here in Spring-
field and they are now here to watch our appointed State
/4% GENERAL ASSEMBLY. ttlj . j ï x.q. d x e' .; u' vvxvz o p. 1 u u! sl o Is!;/,
,?' n'.a.* .* Qlu x . . x. H o u s l o F H E P' IR E 5 E - T A. T 1 v e: %! . e
136.
Legislature in action. so, I welcome ah.. them with open
harms and a warm heart. And ah.., they are ah.. would....
: us jjWould you stand.up, please? In the ah.. Gallery to my r g .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Third
Reading. House Bill 4374. Yes, House Bill 4374 has been
read a Second Time. Amendments Nc. l and 2 have been adopte .
Representative Campbell. do you wish to take from there?''
C. Campbell: ''Now, Mr. Speaker, sinçe we've gotten resolved
some of our problems, I'm going to move to adopt ah.. Ccmmit
tee Amendment No. 3 and No. 4 even though they are technical y
incörrect. And then, ah.. move to table those two Amendment *.
And, thereby, will not have to offer ah.. one.. one of
the four Amendments which I was going to offer before.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move
the adoption of Amendment No. 3 and 4 to House Bill 4374.
All in favor of the adoption aignify by voting 'aye', the
opposed 'no' the Amendments are' adopted. Nowe the gentlema. # .
moves that those Amendments be tabled. A1l those in favorof the gentleman's motion to table Amendments No. 3 and 4,
to House Bill 4374, indicate by saying 'aye', the opposed
'no' and the Amendments are tabled. Are there further
Amendmentsa''. . * '
J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 5, Campbelb, amends House Bill 4374
( as amended, by House Amendment No. 2, by restoring Line 35i
l on page 14 of the Bill. And, the restored Line to read asfollows: 'equipment $503,3551.''
Rep. Arthur A. .Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion Repre-#
'
axT ' rl/'t t'''lnx G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y?(t:- ' lz,.A.,t svavs .e Iuulpjolsî . . .. ' ' J. 9 'Q
. +. Hotlse oF R':I*RESC:NY-TIV'e;S
NY 1AG;XP2 '
137.
sentatfve campbell.''
c. campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of th' House, this restores the physical plant building at Eastern
' b th sides of the afsl .Illinois University. I ve talked to o
I know of no opposition and I move to adopt ah.. Amendment
NO . 5 . ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 5,
to House Bizl 4374. A1l in favor of the adoption signify
by saying 'aye', the opposed 'nol. the Amendmqnt is adopted.
Are there further Amendments?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 6, Campbell. amends House Bill 4374,
as amended, by House Amendment No. 1, by restoring L.ine'3l
on Page 9.of the Bill, the restored and amended Line to read
as follows: 'improvements - $75.000.7 and by amending the
dollar'amount in Line 28 on Page 10 of the Bill to read
,$263 332'.'1#
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-
sentative Campbell.''
C. Campbell: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, this restores part of the planning money ah.. which
had originally been taken out, roughly fifty percent of it,
at ah.. Chicago State and Governor State. I move for the
adoption of Amendment No.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 6, to
House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by
G4:. qlD. . . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y%: -rJ' :) ' jzp'hî t sv ...r e o c ' u u , .. o 1 sê f a - .. l $..?, .. ...* $'< . Hotlel oe F'EPF'ES.EPITATIVE:S .
. yaa.
saying ''aye'. the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.
Are there further Amendments?''
J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 7. campboll, amends House Bill 4374
on Page 8 by inserting after Line 35 the following: 'For
planning for a Fine Arts Building, including construction
documents - '$250.000'.'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-
sentativo Campbell.n
C. Campbell: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladie's and Gentlemen of the
House, Amendment No. ah.. was originally $4,755,000. It
has been reduced to $250,000. And, I move for the adoption
of Amendment No. 7.,'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The 'gehtle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 7,
to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify
by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.I
Are there further Amendments?''
J. O'Brien p ''Amendment No. 8, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374
as amended, by House Amendment No.
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''AN.. Representative Campbe11....''
C. Campbell: ''That Amendment/ wedre not going to offer because
it was taken care of ah.. through' the tabling of Amendment
WO . 3 . ' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. Letls not consider this Amend
ment. Would the Clerk renumber the Amendments so they ah...
Are there further Amendments?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 8, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374,
'Xz, ? ' ' $ e'js, ) . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. /.).- : , .,., j. k. . ; s'ra'rc oe luulhlolsî: d ; c' . . .* '+' t v. . H o Kl % K o F R e; P R E S E: N T A T I V e; s .
139.
as amended, on Page 1, Line l4, by striking ,$8,241,800',
and inserting in lieu thereof '$8e360e200'; and ön Page le
Line 26 by striking '$9.953,900,, and inserting in lieu
thereof 6$10,072,30012 and on Page 1, Line 29 by striking
.$11,077,499% and inserting in lieu thereof 9$11,495,100';
and on Page 2, Line 6 by striking .$13,993,099', and insert-
ing in lieu thereof 1$14,415,700,7 and on Page 2, Line 24,
by striking 57,574,700', and inserting in lieu thereof
1$7:762,400') and on Page 3, Line 1 by striking $$9,284.100%
and inserting in lieu thereof '$9,471,8001: and on Page
Line 4 by striking '$14, 265,200% and inserting in lieu
' thereof .$14,598,300,7 and on Page 3, Line 16 by striking
'$17,100,800% and inserting in lieu thereof 6$17,433,90017and on Page 3, Line 29 by strik'ing '$57 300 823' a'nd in-# # #
serting in lieu thereof''$58,357.624'.'' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'iThe gentleman from McHenrye Reprem
sentative Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose
do you rise. sirr'.A
A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. this Amendment conflicts with Amendment
KO . 1 . ''
T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. so that we do the same thing,
either the clerk to resubmit the numbers ah.. according to
the formula or the Clerk could change the title of the Amend .
ment and also the fiqure which was,altered by Amendment No. .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: f'Righto.f''
T. J. Hanahan: ''What it does, Mr. Spe'aker, my Amendment, in
essencee is seeking to add $1,046,466 to the amended Bill.
N 'jj. *y->, ) . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y, Qs 7t j. :f' J % ' '; ' k .). . jj s 2Y oA J * 0 P' ' Q Q i N O ' S. . - , so sseaussavxvlvest
, . .
140.
In.. In effect, what would do, would be to allow, accordi g
l h Board of Governors of Stat'e Collegesto the etter from t e
ahd Universities, according to their figures, ih response
to your specific question the following information is pro-
vided. And, to include for Chicago State, Eastern Illinois
University, that's for Bill Cox by the way, ah.. Noytheaster
Illinois University, Western Illinois University, the salary
increases for the faculty .and non-academic employees would
not lay off for reduction from new salary increase funds for
fiscal year are as follows: It comes to one million,
forty-six thousand, four hundred and sixty-six dollars. And
this Amendmenty'that I'm offering, would put in effect the
same rationale we used on the other Bills, in ah.. in amend-
ing the other Bills to include the prcper funding for the
maintenance and operation and for all the non-academic'
employees of these Universities so that they could maint>ineN
and operated at the proper level. And I urge the adoption#' .
of the Amendment. If you want to hold the AmendMent until
T reinsert all of the figures according to the amended Bill,
I will.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk can do thate Representative
Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''So. I move... urge the adoption of this Bill.
The debate should be reéted on the fact that we're increasin
one million dollars.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The questio
isp 'shall Amendment No. 8, to House Bill 4374, be adopted?'.
a . ti%$k em dN GENERAL ASSEMBLY
.- ekz. qzf$#.j : svxx., .e. puujaolsP ;'' ,$ . ( . ih . . @ .* *.ke . e1 ousK o F R EI>R e:s c MT'AT 1 v Es
141.
Al1 those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed...
Roll 'Call? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the
opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take '
the record. On this question. thçre are l0O 'Ayes', 26
'Nay's' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 8,
to House Bill 4374, prevails. Are there further Amendments?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374
on Page 16 by inserting ilmediately below 14 the following:
'section 12...1...
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry, Repre-
sentative Hanahan.''
T. J. Hanahan: ''This is the Amendment that, 'any expenditure
under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevaili g
wage rates as established by public policy'. I urge its
1; 'Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: Is there any discussion? The gentle-;
man has offered to move the adoptio: of Amendment No. 9,
to House Bill 4374.... Representative Simmons, for what
purpose do you rise, Siran!
A. E. Simmons: ''Would th@ Clerk read where that's effectivea''' Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Certainly.. Would you proceed Mr.. #
Clerk?''
J. O'Brien: '''section l2. Any expenditures under this Act mus
be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as
established by public policyl.''
R:p. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move the
adoption of Amendment wNo. 9: to Houée Bill 4374. All in fav r
. %) e 'G lrR> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yvg t )?y'.h. :y..j du t s'ra'rk oF 1 Lulelols. k ? . n ' . ' . s o u' s s o e. a s e s s s s - w A, x 1 v s s
. ' q t . . . .- .. .. . .
. y42.
of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'nd'.
the Amendment is ado/ted. Are there further Amendments?
Tiird Reading. House Bill 4293.''J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide for
the ordinary and contin.....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''You want that out of the record, Repr -
sentative springer? Do you want that out of the record?
Take that out of the record. House Bill /449.''
J. o'Brien: ''House Bill 4449, a Bill for an Act to provide
for the ordinary and contingent expenses and distribution
expenses of the Illinois Junior College Board. Second Read
ing of the Bill.' Two Committee Amendmepts. AmendmenL No. ,
amends House Bill 4449 on Page Line... Section 6, Line 33,
by striking.moo''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Lee, Reprebentati e
shapiro.'' .
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I couldn't hear him. Cauld
E he read the Amendment again?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''oh! I'm sorry. Would the Clerk ple se
read the Amendmenta''
O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4449 on Page .
section 6, Line 23 by striking '$141,110,000:, and insertin
in lieu thereof 5138.110,000'..'
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. qspeaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, this Amendment reduces the Capitol construction
by $3,000,000. It has the approval of the Junior College
Board. And, I urgc its adoptiono''..
9%
z > $ : p, 9 . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y4 tq. r , , sy j1 0. 'v svxv.y oe luulxolsî j it.n'.'.-, .V +'J. . H o k) l E o F n E P R E G E N T AT j v E S
, s% .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. to
House Bill 4449. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', and
the opposed 'no' and the Amendment is adopted. Are there
further Amendmenks?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 4.
Line 6, by striking 53,960,000', and inserting in lieu there
of '$3 200 0001.'.# #
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Lqe, Representa-
tive Shapiro-''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House
this Amendment re-. ah.. reduces the ah.. retirement by ah..
approximately .$760,000'. And, I urge its adoption.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment 2 to Hous# .
Bill 4449. All in favdr of the adoption signify by saying
'aye', the opposed 'noî and the Amendment is adopted. Are#
.there further Amendments? '''.A
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 3, Blades. amends House Bill 4449,
on Page 2 by striking Line 27 through 34 and inserting-...
on Page 3 by striking Lines l thrdugh 6 and inserting in 1ie
thereof the following: 'in order for Junior College Distric
to qualify for a full special grant for foundation level
supporting in its levy tax for the educational fund, and
building operation and maintenance fund as a combined rate
of .1745%, or above, for the current fiscal year.q
Arthur A Telcser: .''Representati/'e Shapiro for what pur'-Rep. . y
...g' . w... .f ;).A.1P . GENERAL ASSEM BLY* 74% c ï 'p : v e. o jr j u u j a o j sœ tix . ; .
Y,j .
s'F A.. Ue t 2. 'T . '. ' @ . yj o u s s o Ie n j: e n s s s a v A. v I v E st * *
y'<l a x *
144.
pose do you rise, Sirm'
s I 'D. C. Shapiro: ''AK.. Mr. peaker, if that s the Amendment that
I think it is. that s not a Committee Amendment.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''That's a flcor Amendment from Repre-
sentative ah.. ah.. Blades.''
D. c. Shapiro: ''Is there... Is there not another Committee
Amendment, Committee Amendment No. 37.'
Rep. Arthur A. Nelcser: ''No, ah.. The Clerk informs me that
there are only two Committee Amendments, Representative
shapiro.''
D. c. shapiro: nAlrighto-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcver: ''Representative Simmons, for what pur-
pose do you rise?''
simmons: ''Ah.. Mr. Speakere I was trying to get your
attention when we were around Committee Amendment No. 1. '
And, I wanted to ask a 'question that, I think, is pertinpnt
of the Sponsor.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir. I'm sure hè'll answer.''.>.e
A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. On your Committee Amendment No. le you'r '
changing a hundred and forty-one million ah.. to a hundred
and thirty-eight million on ah.. Line Why didn't you
change it on the line above- . a couple lines. above there
that repeats the same amount of moneya''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, could you
repeat your question, please? The gentleman from Lee ah..
could not hear you.''
A. E. Simmons: ''On Amendment No. 1, yDu amended the Bill on
c kz..j';pM* G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. tcjt r .j,,.: t* jk . j sT A.T K: o F' 1 L L 1 N o l S'.( )..k.. .* % ..' . z. Hotzsr oe a'celzssc-'rA 'rlvE5
.t, z .. . s-jp*..
145.
Line ah.. on Page 4. Line 33, changing a hundred and forty-
one million. a hundred and ten thpusand to a lesser amount.
But, on Line 23 of the same Bill. same amount, a hundred
and forty-one million, a hundred and ten thousand is used.
Why didn't you change that amount?''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. I believe, the point is ah.. is well tak .
That.. That sum .was not ah.. changed. But, I do understand
that it is the.. the line'item amount which ah.. takes...
holds ah.. precedence. It could be corrected in Enrolling .
and Engrossing.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. The Clerk tells me that En-
rolling and Engr'ossing can take care of ah. . correcting tha
one item, Representative Simmons. Nowy can we revert to
Amendment No. 3, Representative Shapiro? Is your Rind clea
now that there are only'two Ccmmittee Amendments? Oka#..Ah.. Amendment No. 3, the gentleman from Wayne, Representa-
tive Blades.''
B. C. Blades: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleme'n of the
House, Amendment No. 3 merely changes the language of House
Bill 4449. It does not ah.. deal with any figures. It does
not increase the appropriation. %Ae money is already in
appropriation. Bute under the present language of the Bill,
any Junior College District which is not charging a tuition
ah.. will lose money under.. under the present equalization
in the present appropriation. The Olney Junior College in
Southeastern Illinois ah.. levies Ehe rate of $.25 per hund d
where normally, the average levy isuabout $.17. so. the..
'.>ok ENER AL A ssEM uLv* . t - Gv tt.x $. j a <. jl.'s s h ; svx'rs og IuulaolsFl . $. ' ?y.''' .. , sotlss oe acpacsslqvxmjve:sy. 't' p . . r.!z
146.
the people, we, there in the Olney Junior College, make up
the difference ah.. by a tax levy rather than ah.. then by
tuition. I urge your support.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man from Lee, Representative Shapiro.''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleme
of the House. I'm opposed to this Amendment for the follow-
ing reasons: What is being done here is that the qualifying
rates for equalization, which is a line item of l.4 million
dollars, is being changed. Naw, think, you will recall
that in the last Session, when the equalization eoncept was
first introduced into the Junior College Bill, many of us
opposed it. mainly on the reason that it... for the reason
that it did not include locàl tuition effort. Now. this
equalization line item does include local tuittion effort.
It just happens to be that there is one Downstate Junior
College District that does not charge ah.. tuition. That
Junior College District is East Illinois, Eastern. Now, the
Trustees Associâtion Council of Presidents and the Junior
College Board worked out an appropriation this year, that
everyone seem to think is fair and balanc' ed. And, the Board
of Higher Education, the Bureau o.f the Budget concurred.
Now in addition to this equalization, there is also
million for disadvantaged and $750,000 for local public
service programs. Nowe this Amendment, which is being made
on behalf of this one Junior College Disirict in the state,
ah.. ironieally this will increase this Junior College's
,. '' rx'q.'' ..'' ..
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147.
equalization to $500,000 which will be the lion's share of
the 1'.4 millicn dollars., Now, I submit to you khat, since
the l.4 has not been increased, by inereasing Illinois
Eastern's equalization grant from approximately $250,000 to
$500,000, it is going to take $250,000 away from the other
seven Junior College Distriets that can qualify. Now, Illi-
nois Easterne ofviously, objects to a qualification provi-
sion which requires a minimum loeal effort as far as tuition
is concerned. And, as I've said before, they are the only
Downstate District that does not charge a small tuition.
However, if they do charge several fees which average about
$2.00 per credit hour, they also. under this Bill, get an
additional qualifying credi't because they're loeal tax rate
exeeeds the .1745 cents whieh is necessary to qualify for
i l al credit supplied, they wo'uldequalization. Now: wit oe
need only an additional one.. one dollar and fifty-three.
cents tuition per credit hour which would be the lowest in
the Sta#e. Now, at the tile the Junior College System wascreated. equalization grants were not a part of the funding
formula. The General Assembly should have the right to pro-
vide some guideline and a few minimum standards for funding
by the State of Illinois over and above flat grant alloca-
tions. I think, this is a bad Amendment. It should be de-
feated. It works to the detriment. of seven other Junior
College. Districts in Southern Illinois that do happen to do
qualify. It upsets a well-formed Bill. And, I don't think,
that this General Assembly should c'6nsider this Amendment
s p (A'lG' votrxyr,'yx' G E N E R A t. A S S E M B t. Yx ..44 / ryt svavk .s ,uujxo,s. L)
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Rdy&. ArLlfar A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage. Represent -
Y 661RYF1 i' 'Y VV lI0 .
G '.'--.'.: ' Hof f'man : ' ''Mr. speaker, ruadies and Gentlemen of the Hous p
.1 too rise Qz opposition to this Amendment. During the 1as
ah.. Sessic'h of the General Assembly, ah.. I met with the
President of this ah.. this College as well as the President
'W-' their Louzzl Board with a grcup of other pecple ah. . in-;' x :.l &:2tt>; J ' .volved in the Trustees Association and we discussed, at
Sgreat lengtb', the whole equalizaticn concept, the concept
whièh, on iids face, I'm cpposed to. And, it... it's... I'm *
oppcsed to 5:u because of the way in which ah.. assessments
are done across the State. They vdry ah.. from a twenty
percent level of ah.. of real value or lower to a high of..
of ah.. sixty .percent. And, they use this as a criteria ah..
for any more funding of school programs than we do alreadye 1
I.. I believaa, is a mistake. Bu't, on top of my objection tc
the equ>lization aspect, the present program which is in-
cluded in this Bill, was worked out ah.. with interested
parties. This Amendment is the ah.. result of somebody who
didn't get... didn't get his way ah.. with his own group.
And so, he's going to' come ah.. sömeplace else and work
outside of that arrangement. I don'.t think, this is good
for ah.. thekmlnior College and the Junior College operation
ptt'e I don't think it's good for the Legislat'veacross the S-t. . ,
. process where'sze attempt to work out as many things possible
.in other waysvu Ah.. thereftlre, I would ah.. request your
. .Jrw vgK%wu %. r ,> A 7* G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YTtsr .k ., , x. jê r ' . ' ! )1 . svAv.s oe Iuudhols
. y. '' ' k '' ( Hoklll oe REPRE'*E:NTATIVIS% u= W
l49 .
support of... defeat of this particular Amendment.''
'' h tleman from F'ranklin Repre-Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: T e gen #
sentative Hart.?
R. 0. Hart: ''Would the Sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser; ''He indicates he wâll.''
R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. Representative Blades, I'm sorry. I was
# ' dm tof the f loor momentarily when you explained the lmen en .
Would you. brief 1y, tell me what this Amendment does ?''
B. c. Blades: ''Yes, Representative Hart. Ah.. ah.. what the
Amendment does is changes the language in the present Appro-
priàtion Bill. Ah.. if you'll recall, last year we got a *
million dollars equalization money. Now ah.., for some of
our poorer ah.. Junior Collgges Downstate. Now, this langua e,
in the present Bill, would deprive the Olney Junior College,
according to the -ah.. President of the College, of $250,000
that is already in the appropriation simply because we do '
not ah.. charge a tuition. Now/ if we charged a tuition, 'I .!
'we would. be entitled to that. But, since we do nct charge
a tuition, welre not entitled to it. Now ah....''
R. 0. Hart: ''Well. alright. Now, if the.. if the Olnqy Junior
college dâdn't get the $250,000, where would it go?''
Blades: ''Wel1 I can't answer that. That, I don't know.'#
R. 0. Hart: ''We1l. I'd like for you to take this out of the
record until you can answer that question because, you knowe
you and I spcnsored the Amendment for the ah.. Equalization
Formula last Session.''
B. Blades: ''Right..''
. SrM GEN ERA L ASSEM BLYyr . gê fut . e*A . svx..s oe ,uu,soIsk . # ' c* '' ** > ; . '. HotllK oe IRFeREIeS-TA.TIV/S
150.
R. 0. Hart: ''And, I'm concerned, and I think some of the rest
of us are concerned, about the redistribution of the money.
If it isn't going to affect the money that goes to the othe
Junior Collejes, ah.. who are included in the equalization,we would have one position on it. If it is going to affect
them, think. we ought e have... we may have another posi-
tio'n. And, if you could take this out 'of the record until
we can get that resolved, I think, we might be able to work
something out.''
B. C. Blades: .'Well, mine's merely an Amendment and the Bill
was.called. Maybe Doc Shapiro can.. can answer that ques- .
tion. I don't know.''
R. o. Hart: ''well, he.. he.. Doctor Shapiro said that would
redistribute the hillion and a half dollars. And, I'm in-
clined to agree with him. And, unless you can ex..., you
know, show that it won't ah.. we're going to oppose your# .
Amendment.''
B. C. Blades: ''Redistribute a million and a half dollars?''.A '
R. 0. Hart: ''That's right. In other words, it would redistri-
bute, and.. and to put it into Doctor Shapiro's language,
would give the Olney Junior College the lion's share'.
And, we didn't invision the ah.. ah.. equalization in that
way. And, for that... And, if Yha: is true, then, I'm
inclined to think that it is true, then weire going to oppos
the Amendment.''
B., Blades: ''Well, I.certainly wouldn't have any Amendment
on there, Mr. Hart, if it was going to cost the Olney Junior
z wT'v x'o slr,n'.u G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yqf'-% ,s ,t h jjq ..f . r p- svxv.s oe iuuj-orsf. , .. . ' '.':. ! .
4 - Hokls? OF REPRI/I-TA.TSNICF? ..2 . *
151.
College District a million dollars. What I'm trying to do
is save.....''
R. 0. Hart: ''No. That isn't what I saide''
B. C. Blades: lIs to save $250,000 for Olney Junior College
that's alread: in the appropriation.''
R. 0. Hart: ''That isn't what I said. What I said, and I was
repeating only what the Sponsor said, #ou take the... you
don't increase the amount of money that's available vnder
this formula. But, what your Amendment may do is to re-
distribute the million and a half dollars so that the Olney
Junior College would get more than, we think, they're en- -
titled to. Andy if that is true, then, of course, the only
plaae to take or get that mon'ey wculd be from the other
Junior Colleges who are going to get it under the formula.
Now, there are seven or eight Junior Colleges who qualify
under this ah.. equalization formula because ah.. cf the
theory that they have less money' available per studept for'education and the State should help. And agree with that#
aM '
wholeheartedly. But ah.., if we're going to now ah.. take
away the theory in favor of one of'the Junior Colleges at
the detriment of the other, then, I ihink, we're beginning
to evade the principle. And, I want you to ah..# you know:
if you can assure me that that is' not true, we'd have one
position on it. If it is true, then welre going to oppose
:i. t ''
B. C. Blades: ''We1l, a1l I know is what the President ah.. ah.
of the Olney Junior College ah.. came to Fairfield and told
>- ' - - - - = k ' .v '' ...''. '*% .; x
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152.
me. And, this is what we needed in order to save $250,000
that we couldnlt get. It seems to a1l stem around the fact
d t charge tuition inthat we do not change... that we o no
the Olney Junior College District. Getting the ah.. Distric
to ah.. ah.. vote in the Olney Junior College District..om''
R. Hart: ''I.. I understand that. I understand that. But,
I'm requestinq you now ah.. o.r the Sponsor of the Bille if
' ah.., I guess. that would be his prerogative, to take this
' Bill out of the record for a few minutes until we can resolv.
*
the difference of an opinion that seem to be ah.. to prevail
between you and Doctor Shapiro and me as to what this would
do to the money available for the other Junior Colleges in
Southern Illinois.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Shapiro, do you wish
to take your Bill out of the record?''
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen
of the House, I have been waiting with this Bill for several
weeks now. The.. The Amendment ah..4 I think, would do
irreparable harm to seven other Junior Colleges in the State.
Let's vote it up or down and be done with it because there
are other Amendments that heed to be placed on the Bi1l.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you wifh to proceed, Representativ
Hart?''
R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. yes. Well, I'm inclined to agree with ah..
Representative Shapiro. And, would say thaty I think, it'
unwise for ah.. one Junior College, which is thought to bene
fit of this type of.. of Amendment and ah.. and received
.. s a ' 'n-...z '
'. % GENERAL ASSEMBLYi:- i':..).p 1ë fzit ,. j svwvs oe 'uulsols
. t .t ./ V*.. ' ' .' . . H Q t) S E O F R t P r: E S E e4 T A Y 1 V e l
153.
last ymar ah.. through the ah.. Sponsorship of Representati
Blades and Myself with the help of the Appropriations Commi -
d of course, the Members of this Body, to achievetee an .
some financial stability among ah.. the Junior Colleges in
ah.. the Area where the assessed evaluation is less. Nowe
to come in and try to invade the principle of the thing in
favor of one College. And, believe. that this Amendment
should be defeated. And, I ask the Members ah.. to vote
'no' on the Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there f'urther discussion? The
gentleman from Effingham, Representative Keller-''
C. P. Keller: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle-
men of the House. I think, this is a good Amendment.and I'l
tell you why. The people in' Southeastern Illinois levy
a tax of twenty-five percent or twenty-cents against their
people whereas most of the other Junior Colleges only levy
a tax of one-seven-eight or one-seven-five and they, the
people in the Area, are paying this here additional ah..ve
tuition stuff where the other Junior Colleges are charging
it. I think, that they are deserving Uf the extra money.
And, I think, that we should give it to Vhem. Just because
theylre charging their own local .people this and trying to
do a good job and operate three campuses, which is the only
Junior College operating three campuses, I think, that we
should vote this Amendment up. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''I.s there further éiscussion? If not,
the gentleman from Wayne: Representative Blades, to close
q %'' ' ' . ,' T.. r'm ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y;. t %:.j .T'.> : svwv.c .,, ,uu,solsr4 . . . $l r.j ) r! . .. ' . s s s ,, v g x j .e s. .. , qsouss oe sees( .
154.
the debate.''
B. C. Blades: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
I merely want to tell you that I have always supported the
Junior Colleqe Programs since it started. And, in order 'to
get our District there to vote for the tax for Junior Col-
leges, we were told by those in authority in the educational
fieldy who were ah.. shaping this Junior College Program,
that they would be tuition free. I believe, that you should
keep your word. I'm trying to keep the word to the people
. in the ozney aunior cozlege that khey would still be tuition
f ree . Now, in order to get them to approve of a twenty-f ive
cent on a hundred dollar assessment. . . on a hundred dollar
of their assessed evaluation, a twenty-f ive cent tax; we
a ain told them that there w' ould be no tuition. We, again,C
told the people in the Olney Junior College that there would
be no tuition. Now, according to our assessed evaluation,
we are putting in more money into the Junior College' District than any other Junior college District in the Statei
.xj M ,i of Illinois because the average is about seventeen cents and
not twenty-five. And, what I'd like to do, I'd still like
to keep my word to the people there, that the Olney Junior
College is not a tuition College.. That was the general con-
cept of the Junior Colleges in the beginning. I don't under
stand now how some of you men are saying, 'let's make it a
tuition. Let's make it a tuition'. I started out that it
was not to be a tuition .at the Junior Colleges and I'm stayi g
Uàat way. I'd appreciate your support.''
o . î .A c E N E R A ta A s s E M B L Yb.ùl?Ts '2 St - ):..t.'3 :) svxv.s oe , uu'ao's* -' ï .f .m '' ' -/ a ou s e o e n l e y. e s s N 'r A v l v ssxf vqd ' .,2-!-
155.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment
No. to House Bill 4449, be adopted?g. A11 those in favo
signify by voting 'aye' the oppoaed by voting 'no'. Have#
all voted who wished? The gentleman f<om Lawrence, Repre-
sentative R. D. Cunninghmn.''
R. Cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. in
a misguided sense of economy, you are strangling educational
opportunity for the youth in our Area. The Junior College
involed has a particular problem in that we have wide spaces.
The people. that go to these Colliges, have to.. have to
commute great distances in comparison with the rest of'the
State. We have to have some incentive to bring those young
people to Eastern Illinois College. Ande the incentive is
the absence of tuition. The rest of the State, in their
affluence for which we rejoice, should not try to force. upon
us the same burden of tuition. They should take into actoun
the fact that we do have transportation problems. If you're
voting Tred', we ask you to' re-examine your position and tur
your switch over to 'green'. We would say to those people,
who are fearful that some money would be taken from their
District, khat their fears are unfounded. We can qualify to
get that money by levying a tuition that would destroy the
schools. So, you're not protecting your College. All you'r
doing is forcing upon o'ur College a condition that fine un-
bearable. Re-examine. Vote 'greep'.''
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take the
record. On this question, there are 'Ayes' 62 'Nays'#
, . J'4'f7Y;- '..z.' '*' jq ' Noihi-zy c E N E R A L A s s E M B t. Y-' %:r) ..: k .y ttt. ,- 'tj . x'ra'r:lz og 4 uul-olsjy . ,.a,. .t .* Y . . . H o tl Bf D F R l P IR E % E! bI T A T 1 V E 5.v ' y ...'ui . . & . . .- - . . .--. . .. .. ..
156.
and the gentleman's motion to adopi 'Amendment No. toucuse Bill 4449. fails. Are there further'Amendments?''
J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 4, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4449
on Page 6 by inserting immediately below Line 14 the follow
ing: 'Section 8. Any expenditures under this Act must be
spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as establ'sha
b ' ublic policy'; and in Line 15 by ddleting the Number 8.y P
and inserting in lieu thereof the 'Number 9....
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from McHenry, Repre-
sentative Hanahan.''
T. J. kanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this w$ ' ,
Amendment to House Bill 4449 would once again reaffirm the
policy of prevailing wage being paid by expenditures of Sta
funds in local communities. Especially in this Bille House
Bill 4449, it's important to adopt this Amendment because
in many instances, there has .been rulings arbitrarily made .
by local Junior College Boards, that they did not have to
live up-to.prevailing wage and prevailing rate type of
policies. This Amendment to the lppropriation Bill will
instill a policy within the Junior College Appropriation
explnditures, a policy of paying prevailing wage which this
House and this Gener'al,Assembly has adopted many many times
before. And, I urge the adoption of this Amendment-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to mcve the adoption of Amendment No. 4, to
House Bill 44z;9. Al1 those in favor signify by saying 'aye'/the opposed and the Amendment is adopted. Are there
' *x.- .
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' - i. .. .e . .157.
. further hmendmentsa''
T. O'-Rrl/n: ''Amendment No. 5, R. A. Walsh, amends House Bill; R . . ''
4449 on Page 3 by inserting between Line 34 and 35 the follo -
lrlak fate grants shall be provided only for courses
Ehat are normally part of baccalaureate-oriented programs,
. occupational programs or general studies instructional pro-
grams approved by the State Junior College Board that apply
'. an asss.ciate degree or certificate'-''
Rrp. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tl ve Walsb.''
R. A. Walsh: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, -
ah.. as the Membership may recall, last year we had an Amend$
ment to the Junior College ork as it is now known, Junior. College Apprcpriation Bill which was adopted through the
help... ah.. with the help of Representative Murphy and
others which would prohibit the distribution of State
Apportionment money ah.. to schools for courses which were
the area of hobby, J eisure time or recreational activitie .
That Amendment was adopted and ah.. is now the Law. It pro-
hibits the distribution of State Apportionment Funds for
courses such as cake decoration. floral arrangement, knittin ,
camping, self -hypnosis bridge, horse training and similarr
hobby, recreational and liesure time activites. Ah.. this
year, ah.. I have an Amendment which ah.. is basically in
.the wording of House Bill 4449. And: it's the language whic
is suggested by the State Junior College Board and which has
been endorsed by the Illinois Council of Public Community
r-- ''- V , ' '.$1 : Ak:' '' ->.* o E N E R A t A s s E M B L Y? '* '/1 'r k
'
l a e a.,q
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158.
College' Presidents. This Amendment, which I've jusi offered
and which the Clerk has read, would prohibit the disbursemen-
of flat rate grants for courses that are nct normally
baccalaureate-oriented or occupational programs or genera'l
studies instructional programs. Now, the State Junior Col-
lege Board and representatives of the ah.. various Districts
have assured me that this Amendment will achieve the same
purpose as the Amendment which we adopted last year and woul
prohibit the disbursement of State Fuhds for hobby, leisure
time or recreational activities. ' Ah . . Mr. Speaker, Ladies
and Gentlemen of the House, I urge the support of this
Amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Franklin, Repre-
sentative Hart.''j; ' jtR. 0. Hart: ''AK.. would the ponsor of the Amendment yield?
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates that he wi11.''
Hart: ''Ah.. I'm not partieularly having a great feeling
about this Amendment one way or another. But, is this a wayae
that we can legislate ln this field? Ah.. ah.. you know,
the Illinois Constitution saya that ah.. Appropriation Bills
w41l be zf.mited to the subject of appropriations. And, Appro
priation Bills are not included in the revised Statutes,
you know. when they come out on your desk. So, the question
that I seriously ask you about this AmeM ment is. ah.. you
may be making a point with it, you may be ah.. really more
taan that, shouldn't you have a separate Bill which would be
come a part of the permanent Statutes ah.. to take care of
& -'-gj'...<> y GENERAL ASSEMBLYC ' ' / z ut : s
. s.rav. og juujsojs1,. '=. . .J.* +. .' . Moulw or mxel4x.xavA.vlvrs:$ '
159.
this?''R. A. Walsh: ''Wel1 ah.-, Representative Hart, first. in answer
to your question, yes, it is within our power to do this.
We did it last year with the Amendment to which I referred.
Ah.. secondly, there's no question but what we can, in our
Appropriation Bill, designate the manner or limit in some
way the manner in whieh the funds are to be used. Ah.. Repr -
sentative Hanahan has just had a series of Amendments adopte
which wculd do just that. So, I don't think there's any
question but what the Appropriation Bill can eontain direc-
tion ah.. to the Ageney indicating the manner in which the
funds are to be used.''
R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. what are some of the eourses that ah/. Would
not be of the kind that could... flat grant money could be
used for?''
A. Walsh: ''Well examples of courses for whieh funds were#
' used in the past, they were credit equivalent courses ah..
referredeto in.. in the various ah . ah.. brochures, etcw!
that the ah.. the Colleges would indicate are: And, these
are taken from ah.. The Bill that was past last year ah..
cake Deeoration, Floral Arr'angemenk, Knitting, Camping,.
: . .
Self-Hypnosis, Bridgee Volley Ball for Couples, and other ' . '..
courses such as that.''
R. 0. Hart: ''But this would not, in any way, shape or form,
prohibit ah.. ah.. occu... vocational education typd of ah-.
Courses?'' ' '
R. A. Walsh: ''No, it does not. It only limits them when offer d
i .
Z c : . ' t'rp, a . . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yk.t y:.. ,. . . ; f . . ) pv.ve oe 'uukao.. . r'li gc.. . . . .
N. ' . .N..9UF6.OC..FKeHFIKNTATIVt: .
160.
for ah.. happy, leisure time or recreational activities.''
R. 0. Hàrt: ''l see. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is thëre further discussion? Do
you wish to close the debate, Repyesentative Walsh?''
R. A. Walsh: ''Jœ t to request a favorable Roll Call.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move the .
adoption of Amehdment No. 5, to House Bill 4449. A1l those
in favor of the adoption s'ignify by voting 'aye', the oppose
by votinq 'no'. Do you wish a Roll Call, sir? All those
I in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposeI
'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there. further Amendment ?
Third Reading. House Bill 4293...
J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide
for the ordinary and eontingent expenses of the Department
of Conservation. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee
Amendments. Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4293 on .page
1, Section 1, Line 12 by insorting... inserting, andsoforth.''
Rep. Arthur Au Telcser: ''The gentleman from Randolph. Repre-a..-'
sentative Springer.''
N. Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, Committee Amendment No. l.has some inaccuracies in
the ah.. figures in the Section of the General Offices of
ah... House Bill 4293. Therefore, I would like to have leav
of the House to table Committee Amendment No. to House
Bill 4293..'
Rep. Arthur A'. Telcser: ''Representative Springer. the procedur
of the Speaker is usually to first '.ïdopt and then table the
o - .r '> & A G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ykr : . j . ,1 o . . ,. > . s-rwv. oe Iuu,-ols. . .. ? ..,r . . ' g) . , ' HotlsE oF REP-ESEMTATIVi:*
161.
Amendment. So, the gen tleman has offered to move the
adoptfon of Amendment No.. 1, to House Bill 4293. Al1 infavor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amend-
ment is adopted. The gentleman nov moves that Amendment
No. 1, to House Bill 4293, be tabled. All in favor of the
gentleman'a motion tc table signify by saying 'aye','the
opposed 'no', the' Amendment is tabled. Are there further
Amendments?n
J. O'Brien: ''Committee Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4293
as amended, on Page 7, Line 8. by inserting 'land acquisitio ';
and on Page Line 26, by striking 'land acquisition'; and
on Page 8, Line l6, by striking 'land'; and on Page 8. Line
l7, by striking 'acquisition'; and on Page 8, Line 25.....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genileman from Randolph, Repre-
sentative springeru''
Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, Ccmmittee Amendment No. 2, takes the ah.. term 'land> .
acquisition' out of various'parts of House Bill 4263...93.
I move the adoption of Amendment No. 2... Committee Amendmen
No. to House Bill 4293.', ' ''Is there any diseussion? The gentle-Rep. Arthur A. Telcser:
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to
House Bill 4293. All in favor of the adoption signify by
saying 'aye', the opposéd 'no' the Amendment is adopted.
Are there further Amendments?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 3, Springer, amends House Bill 4293
on Page 1, Section 1, Line l2. by inserting '$1,252,300'....,
z Fr x''t . q 4,
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162.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Randolph: Repre-
sentative Springer.''
N. Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House. Amendment No. corrects the inaccuracies ah.. of the
original Committee Amendment No. l that we tabled. Therefor g
I move the adoption of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293.''
Rep. ôrthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-
man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 3,
to House Bill 4293. Do you seek recognition, Representative
Simmons?''
A. E. Simmons: ''Well I'm not sure but ah.. it seems funny. #
that ah.. No, I'quess# itss alright-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman has offered to move the
X option of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293.* in favo
of the adoption signify by saying 'aye' the opposed 'no'
the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?
Third Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4680. We have to wait a
couple of moments to get ah.. House Bill 4680 down from the.M '
Clerk's Office. So, wedll just be at ease for a moment.Here we go1 On the order of Second Reading, House Bill 4680.''
J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4680, a Bill for an Act to amend Sec-
tions of the 'Aevenue Act'. Second Reading of the Bill.
No Committee Amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?''
J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 1, McCormick'......'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative 'Schlickman, for what
purpose do you rise, sira''
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163.
E. F. Schlickman: ''A point of or... point of order, Mr.
Chairman.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''State' your.point-..''
E. F. Schlickman: .'l don't see this Bill on the Calendar. 1'
not aware that a supplemental Calendar has been distributed-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Schlickman, this Bill
had already been read a First Time. And, earlier today.
was sent to the order of Second Reading without reference
and we're now reading a Second Time.''
E. F. Schlickman: ''Can you have a First Reading and a Second
Reading on the same Legislative Day?'' v
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''NO.. It had been read a First Time
on a prior Legislative Day. 'In fact, it had been read last
week. Yes, today it was.... The gentleman from' Cook,
Representative shea, for what purpose do you rise, Sira''
G W shea: I'Mr. Speaker, thfs Bill is on the Calendar under
Speaker's Table. Is is not?''
Re#. Arthur A. Telcser: Yes, it has been read a First TimewA '
last week.''!
; G. W. Shea: ''Alright.. Now, this morning, we' suspended the
Rules with regards to this Bill to hxve it placed on the
Calendar on the order of Second Reading - Sec... or Second
Reading - Second Legislative Day.' So that, tomorrow when
it appears cn L.he Calendar, that will be the order of busine s
that it appears in. All we did today was waive the Rule wit:
regard... regarding two days on the Calendar on the order of
Second Reading.''
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l64
Rep. Arthu'r A . Telcser: ''l think. your point is well taken,
Representative shea and schlickman. And we'll ah...''
E. Schlickm/n: ''Mr. Speaker, if 1 may..... Mr. Speaker,
if I may...''
Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir.''
E. F. Schlickman: ''If they'd called this Bill, it would have
Deen the fïrst time in eight years, in my experience here
in the House, that a Bill had been called when it did not' A d I would like toappear on that order on the Calendar. n ,
suggeste Mr. Speaker, that there are other Bills that are on
the Calendar that are ready to be called and I'd appreciate
some attention being given to theme''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''House Bills Third Reading. 3761...'
J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 3761, a Bill for an Act to provide
the nomination eleetion of judges and repeal part of an Act
named herein. Third Reading of the Bill.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr.
Burditt ''v5-
G. M. Burditt: ''AN.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, House Bill 3761 is ah.. a Bill that merely provides
for the non-partisan election and ah.. of judges. The Bill
sets up a ah.. primary election in August. It's identical
to a Bill that Senator Partee has except that this Bill is
a non-partisan election. The elec... The primary would be
held in August of this year but in other years would be ah..
at the regular time of primary elections. The ah.. final
election would be in November just as ah.. ah.. as is the
.. 'k-a ' ' .. '' x. ''..t : sa.. r':'7'7> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yi * QJ' r> . ) J N.q '(o . .. > ) w'ra'rc oe lt-usNolsi . :.f . .z:: . .
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z6s.
regulaf election now. This is a ah.. Bill which has been
prepared by the Bar... Chicago Bar Association after very
careful consideration. It has very strong support fm m ah..
the editorial writers of several of the newspapers becaus'e
it does provide a means by which ah.. we can take a step
toward taking the judges out of politics. Ah.. it's a ah..
ah.. comprehensive Bill. It has been very carefully drafte
by experts. I'd be glad to answer any questions on it.
But ah.., I do solicit your support E6r this ah.. excellent' Bill ''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman from Franklin,
Mr. Hart.''
R. 0. Hart: ''Will the Sponsor yield?''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''He indicates he will.''
R. 0. Hart: ''What is a non-partisan election?''
G. M. Burditt: ''We1l, that ah.. has been called to my
attention that the Constitutional Convention was selected in
a non-partisan election. And, that's ah.. That's the same
kind of a think that this would be.''
R. 0. Hart: ''Yeah.. Well. in my District, all non-partisan
elections ends up Democrats against Republicans. And ah...
I thinke this Bill should be defeated. It would cost a whol
lot of money in the State of Illinois to have a special
primary to elect judges. I think, the Bill has many deficie -
cies. a non-partisanship of which is the foremost. But,
don't believe, that it'a necessary ah.. with our State and
ah.. and.. and with our local government, I mean, in the
hz : 0r.... . . h*,44 e %- . . j 1. ; . . - G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytp r . ,.N ! vs oe jsujsojsJ o t. ,x : sva'r . / HoU IE oe R EPR E/EENT A.T 1 V X9 .* .>*
166.
economic position that they're in, to ah.. go into a two
million dollars project for the election of a few judges
when we have a provision now.whici allows the Supreme Court
of Illinois to fill vacancies until ah.. ah.. the successors
are elected in a partisan elections which I favor. In the
Constitutional Convention Referendum, the people of the Stat
of Illinois rejected the idea of non-partisan elections' for judges. I think, in fact, that most people in the State
of Illinois wculd like for judges to run every time their
election is up, not ah.. on tenure but for revelection again t
opposition. I think, that ah.. the peo... that this Bill
does not... is not surported by the majority of the people.I don't believe. it's supported ah.. by any ah.. of 6h# lccal
governments which will have to provide the money to supply
the election officials. And, I believe, at this time, we
h ld defeat the Bill.''s ou
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The a h.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Kane,
Mr. Schoeberlein.''
A. L. Schoeberlein: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleme
of the House, ah.. how much.... May I ask the gentleman a
question? Just how much will this special election cost in
the State of Illinois?''
G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. A1, the special election would be only
the August Election of this year. In all other years, after
this year, the primary will be at the ah.. same time as the
election of State Repres'entatives, the regular primary elec-
tion. And, te final election would be at the same time as
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167-
the regular November Election. So, there would be no added
costs ah.. except for the primary in the this year.''
A. L. Schoeberlein: ''How much will Yhe election cost this year.''
M. Burditk: ''Ah.. I've got the figures and I've just sent'
out for them. It's.. Tt would be somewhere in the neighbor
hood of ah.. a six or eight million dollars. Ttll have the
exact figure for you in just a minute.'''A. Iz. schoeberlein: ''I understand that it ' s a little more than
sthat .
Ah . . #tr . peaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, if I may, I've had judges talk to me on this. And,
they are not in favor of this special election. They'd rat r
wait two years. Now, I don't know who it is that wants this.
But ah.., I don't believe, that this should be rushed throu .
And, back home. I'm telling you, anybody who's going to vot
for this special election, is goinq to have it thrown at
them on election day regardless of what portion of the Dis-
trict they're from. Thank you.''
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentM man from ah.. ah.. Cook,
ah.. Mr. Burditt.''
G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker, I.. I now have the ah.. fiscal
i note which I requested on the Bill. Al. Ah.. and, this is
from Don Ed, a supervisor of the'lndex Division of theSeeretary of State's Office. Ah .. he eskimates that it wou d
be a million to a million and a half for the City of Chieag
and a total for the State of two and a half to three millio
dollars.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentlclan from Cook, Mr. Shea.''
... r ' ov ' <....,i' 9 ,
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168.
G. W. Shea: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question?''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''He indicates he will.''
G. W. Shea: ''Ah.. George, as I read.this Bill, you.. you get
on in the primary by either two thousand votes or one per-
cent of the Governor vote in your particular District the
last time. Is that righta''
G. M. Burditt: ''That's right.. Yeahp.''
G. W. Shea: ''AN.. so that,zlike in Putnam County, where the vo e
for Governof was 2,000, you'd need twenty signatures to get
' on the ballot for judge?''
G. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. Shea: ''And then if there were three or four people on#
in the primary, you take the two highest and put them on the
November ballota''
G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. Shea: nAnd then, if the two people, that got defeated,
wanted to run in November. they would just file nominating
papers for November again. Is that it?''y-H .
G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. Shea: ''So that, we go through almost a useless thing
with the primary cause anybody that runs then can get back
on the ballot in November. Right?''
G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. Shea: ''So that, we end up with... we could end up with
thirty-five or forty people on the ballot for each spot?''
G. M. Burditt: .'Well, Jerry, the best is o?f the enemy of the
good, as you know. And, the chances of what you're saying
! Z Y ?) z! r k :k.-) '-RN. , G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: -' 'sot vmxxe os 'uul-olsf' k%'':! . . j ; r:. . . . s ojr auegsss-vwvjves: x, . aous* .. V .j '<... ... . .. .
IG 9 .
actuall'y occurring are infinitesimal. The fact is that ah..
in an extreme circumstance ah.. the way the Bill is drafted,
that's ah.. that's a remote possibility. But ah.., to go
through the expense of a primary and lose, and then, to re-
peat the action again for thirty-five candidates, ah.. I thi k,
ah.. answers the question itself. That simply isn't going
to happen.''
G. W. Shea: 1'Well, at the primary, you only get the people
that pull primary ballots voting. Rig' ht?''' G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. shea: ''So that, if you pulled a Republican or a Democrat'c
ballot at the primary, ah.. those are the people that would
vote on this. Righta''
G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''
G. W. Shea: ''Then, at the General Election, we normally have
many, Many more people so a fella could probably think, 'Gee'
I didn't get beat too bad in the primary, so I want to run
again apd get on at the General Election'. Is that right?''
G. M. Burditt: ''Well ah.., Jerry, it's right except that, you
remember, this is a non-partisan primary so t hat there is no
I ah.. situation in which ahk. somebody might think, well, I..!E ' lot more Republican or a lot more Democratic! I
. . there s aiI votes around that I could get. And, since I'm a RepublicanII or since I'm a Democrat, I can pick up al1 those people whoIII didn't vote in the primary. Ah.. this is a non-partisanI
,1 ,! election. There s no party designation on the ballot. Ah..I .II this is ah.. ah.. ah.. typical non-partisan election of
I .*% ' ' 'N'tcm. GENERAL AssEMBuvti v.. <k .y . ja xqçu't. . ' ; 7 s'rl'rz oe IuulNols
4 4 2.n:.. .'' .. . Iqouve oe rzresrsshl'r-'rlvesh. z !. V '
170.
Judge's Bill ah.. which, as you know, ah.. the Bar Associa-
tion/ the Newspapers and a number of other specific Organi-
zations over the state have been.. been promoting to ah..
do the best job that we can to keqp the judges out of poli-
tics.n
G. W. shea: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I remembér some time back we were told about a non-#
partisan election for some'thing called the Constitutional
Convention. And so# I would just like to remind the people
of that when theydre talking about a non-partisan election
in here-''
Res. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlehan from Cook. Representa-
tive Hyde-f'
H. J. Hyde: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'm very much in sympathy with
Representative Burditt's' ah.. Bill here. But, I think .he. . , . r
really ought to go farther. I thinke the new thrust is to
have guidelines on all of these primary elections so that
we have a percentage of eaéh ethnic group and ah.. women,
: who run on these ah.. primary races, because democracy isI ' ah-., we see, doesn't really end up in all groups being repr -
sented. The.. So, wepve got to,. I think, refine your Bill,
Representative Burditt to include ah.. every ethnic group#
ah.. in the exact percentage or as close as we can get to it
based on the last census and make sure that ah.. the members
of the opposite sex and ah.. also any.. any third sex that
might turn up, get ah.. cranked into this. Thank you.''
l '''The gentlemak from Sangamon Repre-Rep. Arthur A. Te eser: y
... ' s) 7.'Jutt T.'.zs G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y
J < 'ia;.st. . .. ) R s'ra-rk og Iuulaols%; . . .
> z N : +r. . p s s p s a ss sj v s v j u a s. . . H Q kl * EE o.. $. x!,: -. - -.- .
171.
sentative Londrigan.''
J- T. Lbndrigan: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
Housee I rise, too, to oppose this Bill. This is merely '
another version of the Chicago Bap Association's so-called...
so-called merit plan. We have consistently beaten the r
Bills. And, we should do so once again. Therets no such
thing as a non-/artisan election. Even if there were, theyhave proven undesirable. The people are no't in'favor of them.
This is an expensive Bill. The people, in voting on the
Constitution, told us how they desire to have their judicial
election. Letls pass the Bill in the same form that the
people have directed us and defeat this Bill once, and hope-
fully, for all.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Carrolly for what pur-
pose do you rise, Sir?''
H. W. Carroll: ''Mr. Speaker, a point of parliamentary inquiry.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''State your point, Sira''
H. W. Carrpll: ''l understood the Majority Leader to have aske
the sponsor to hold this Bill for purposes of an Amendment.
Has the Sponsor answered that he was going to hold the Bill
ah.. for an Amendment of any nature that the Majority Leader
had asked.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Burditt, ah.. did you
wish to respond to that question, Sir?''
G. M. Burditt: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous ques-
tion . ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '''The gentlemah from Livingston, Repre-
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g *u .o.q % .e
172.
sentative Hunsicker.''
C. T. Hùnsicker: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I'd just like to say this, that I have to be opposed
to this Legislation. I have Counties in my District that
have already had four elections this year and they're going
to have another one in November, and now, if we pile anothe
one on their baék. I said last week. we're going to have
to make the start down here if we want to freeze real estake
taxes at the local level. And, here's a shining example
of what we're doing.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Madison: Repre-
sentative Kennedy.''
J. Kennedy: ''Mr. Speaker. move the previous question. 1. e
listened to Lawyers a1l day long.''
''@he previous question has been movedtRep. Arthur A. Telcser:
All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'lno'
the gentleman's motion prevails. The gentleman from Cook,
Represeptative Burditte to'close the debate.'''
G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, ah.. to ah.. persuade ah.. a group of politicians
as we all are to ah.. pass a Bill that ah.. would provide
for a non-partisan election of other politicians is ah.. a
little difficult. And, I can understand the feeling that ah..
many of you have. On./ On the other hand, we have had pro-
blems with our judiciary in this and other States throughout
the Country. And, the Federal System, as you know, is ah..'
h tisan seleetion ofis a system under which there is a on-par
e s ..;j * o M hl > CENERAL AsssMBuva .Jxs k:q z :, a s 'ikà ':
.. t svavk oe luulnodsî, , .+ .' Z '' *1
. HousE oF R/PRESE-TATIVE.S
173.
' intment systém. And ah.., thejudges. Now, that s an appo
gentleman, who spoke ah.,.. was correct. This is.. is a step
towards trying to improve the judiciary in our State by
taking the judges out of politics and giving them a chance
so that they can decide all of the cases simply on the bàsis
of merit without having to worry about the next election.
Ah.. I realize that many of you ah.. have personal friends
who are judges who have bèen elected just as I do by the
partisan system. I.. I've got several very close personal
friends who have been elected ah.. as judges on a partisan
ballot. But, nevertheless, Ilve spoken to them about it.
They certainly understand the merits of this Bill. And ah..
as a measure which ah.. in *he long run will take ah.. aJ
major step toward improving the caliber of the judiciary in
this State. I encoùrage your support for this Bill.
Thank you very much.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill
3761 pa6s?'. 'A1l those in'favor signify by voting 'aye'#
the opposed by voting 'nol. Have all voted who wished? Tak
the record. On this question. there... Maragos.. 'aye'.
Jaffeu. laye'. Ewe1l.. 'ayeê. I'm sorry. Maragos wishes
to be recorded as 'present'. Lindberg.. 'aye'. Berman..
'aye'. Ray Welsh.. 'no'. B. B. Wolfe.. 'aye'. On this
question. there are 45 ''Ayes' 91 'No's' l answering 'Prese t'# #
And, khis Bill having failed to receive the Constitutional
majority is hereby declared lost. House Bill 4302.''J. O'Brien: uHouse Bill'43O2, a Bill 'for an Act to amend the
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p*Qz ..:
174.
'Election Code'. Third Reading of the B'ill.''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Shea.'' '
G. 5'7. Shea: '.Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
d House'ah. . as you know, we over-rode the... or we passe
Bill 3623 which was Representative Hartls Bill ahn to
veto the Governor notwithstanding allowing for the partisan
election of judges ah.. in the even numbered years so that
there are a number of vacancies that should be filled in
this selection but we were too late for the primary. House
Bill 4302 provides ah.. follows the Law in the Flinn Case
4-11 Illinois that states that 'the Managihg Ccmmittees
shall name the party nominees and put them... or..1 ,
name the party nominees and place their names on the ballot
for the November Election'. There is no special primary
involved here. Ah.. ivis will be a minimal cost to the.
taxpayers. And, I'd appreciate the support of the House-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Glass.''
B. M. Glass: ''Wil1 the gentleman yield for a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''
B. M. Glass: ''Ah.. Representative Shea: ah.. before the new
constitution was enacted, ah.. what was the method of '.''
selecting candidates for judicial.office?''
G. W. Shei: ''By Party Convention.''
Glass: ''And, under your Bill ah.., I believe, they woul
be selected by a Managing CoMaitteè ?''
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. ,. .%T, --
175.
W. Shea: ''The.. The nominees to'fill primary vacancies
would be filled by the Managing Committee's. And, that was
set out in the Hart Bill and passed overwhelmingly by this
Hous e . ''
B. M. Glass: .'Well, who.. who would be members of the Nlaminat
ing Committee? Would they not, in fact, be the Committee-
mdn who ah.. constitute the Central C8mmittee in Cook Count ?''
.G. W. Shea: ''A.h.. in- in.. They would be the County Chair-
man of the respective Counties involved in the District
Division or Circuit frcm ah.. from where ah.. the vacancy
occurred.'' *
B. M. Glass: ''In other words, the selection would then contin e '
to be made by the Award Committeeman and the Township Com-
mitteeman actinY as a ah.. as you ah.. would call it hereah.. a Managing Committee-''
W. shea: ''AK.. Brad, on1y.... this would only happen in the .
event ah.. that for some reason the primary.. the parson'
nominated in the primary say withdrew cr for some reason.X '
there wouldn't be a primary where they couldn't get on.
And, think, it was set out pretty specifically, as I said
in the Flinn Case in 4-11 where the Supreme Court held in
that Case that, although the progressive party, the County
lerk in Cook County refused to 'ta%e the nominees and pla' ceC
their names on the ballot , the Supreme Court said that they
should have been on the ballot . But, Fe decided this case
after the primary so it's up to the Managing Committee to
name party's nominees for that election. So, what we'rei
I .. A F k x .s .s% . :; ., ./.1 SJ gV' ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ykstt
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l76 .
doing is providing a method of filling the vacancies in
nominatione so that there can be a contesied election in
November for the vacancies in the office... or in Judicial
Offices.''
B. M. Glass: ''Well, would... would that ah.. not also call
for the filling of ah.. ah.. vacancies ah.. that exist
rfght ncw?n
W. Shea: ''It would put peoples names on the ballots. Any
appointments of judges to actually fill the vacancy'of the
judge is done by the Supreme Court. And, this Bill would
no* change that in any manner or means.'' *
B. M. Glass: ''Well, 1et me ask you this. Have you seen the
Attorney General's opinion dated May 11th, 19724 wherein
he's asked whether ah.. the party convention or the party
caucus system may continue to be used under the new ah..
constitution for the filling. of vacancies? And ah.., is.. '
his ah.. opinion, a verY detaile'd opinion, is very specific
that tpat .is'not permitted by the new Constitution.''
G. W. Shea: ''Well I've read the Attorney General's opinion#
ah.. and I ah.. very much like some of the things in it.
I'might disagree with some of them. I think, that this Bil
E . / i ion Iis on foursquare wi h the Attorney General s op n .
think that what we are doing here .is making sure tha' t if# z
for any reason the vacancy occurs in the nomination of either
party, that there is a method of filling the vacancy in
nomination so that we can have a contested election in Nove -
ber Election.''. t '
a. 'v .. & ' f.' . .. x%x k)I''.*zLbjzl'rn>'q G E N E R A L A S S E M B t. Y
2 t-kT'. 'î-,,hj t svwv.s os tuulsols%..x ' .- '. ' .(d' r-. ' . -. Hotl S E Q F G E PH CS E PIT AT I V ES.tç. . %* . -.-. . .
. zpp.
B. M. Glass: ''Well then, what.. why.. why do you say that it
doesn't violate the ah.. the opinion? Isn't... Aren't..
Aren't the vacancies, in fact, being filled by a ah.. by
party conventionsa''
W. Shea: ''NO.. No.. We're.. Welre filling vacancies in
nomination not vacancies in office. And, I think, that's
the difference between what the Attorney General says and
what the impcrtW of this Bill is.''
B. M. Glass: ''And then, under.. And then, under your Bill:
the ah.. Supreme Court would.. would fill all the vacancies.''
G. w. shea: ''The'supreme court would continue to fill the
vacancy in office. The Party Managing Committae would fill
any vacancies in nomination. And so that, these people
that they filled the vacancies in nominations could run
in a contested election in November and fill the vacancies
in Office of Jud.... Judicial Officers so that the appointeaê
of the Supreme court would not be on for four.. fou'r years
but we-would have elected public officials in those offices.''
B. M. Glass: ''Welle I would like, if I may, just very briefly
I don't want to take up any more time than necessary, Mr.
Speaker, but I respectfully disagree with the Sponsor of
the Bill. And, I think, that thb Attorney General's opinio
is.. is clear, that ah.., under the new Constitution, ah..
this is not alproper method for nominating any candidates
for Judicial Gffice. The ah.. The Attorney General's
opinion i's lonu and precise and goes to the point that
j ah.., under no circumstances. may a party convention ah..
z 't e '' ! îw!t''7'7.> - ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yl E
-..i . '1-r'j: svwvs o.- 'uuls'ols'?' f. -,. n.-. .* V '% . , . M D tl S E 1 F R E P R E 5 E bI T A Y I V C S .1, %* z ----- . . --- . . --. .
178.
fill a'h.. vacancies. And, seems to me. that is precisel
what this Bill calls for. And. I urge a 'no' vote on.. on
what would be unconstitutional legislation.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Repre-'
sentative Day.''
R. G. Day: ''Would the Sponsor yield for a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcse/: ''He indicates he wil1.''
. R. G. Day: ''Representative Shea, I1m.. I'm not quite clear
as to the makeup of the Managing Comlittee. Ah.. we have
ah.. five Counties in my Circuit. And, let': say, that
there was a vacancy in the nomination for Circuit Judge.
Ah.. how would that be filled?''
G. W. Shea: ''At the present .time, ycur... if there's a vacanc
in Peoria or the Circuit there for Circuit Judge, the
Managing Committee of the Republican Party wculd be the
five County Chairmen with the weighted vote. And, they,
with their weighted votey would name the party nominee,
I' the Republican Party ncminee to be placed on the ballot in! .
the November Election. Likewise, the five County Chairmen
of the Democratic Party with the weighted vote: would get
to name the Democratic nominee that would go on the ballot
so that the vacancy in nomination would be filled by the
Managing Committees of the respective partieE. Then, when
the ballot is printed in Novc ber, Mr. A. would be.the Re-
publican candidate; Mr. B. would be the Democratic candidat .
And, the people would select either A. or B. ah.. to fill
the unexpired term.''
. ..js,% .: ,.);; .? i-'zzn yà G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj w ;.-<$ .'.i ?r &j ) s.r x v s o e. I u u I sl o 1 s. .( / *. ' Y '.e . sotl sc o p. Ig e: e- s sc N.r A'r I u E sN .jsvu' .:v z,'* . .
' : . l 7 9 .
.. ' R. G. Day: ''In other words, the.. the.. the County Chairman
for each political party would ah.. make the.. be the sole
and only person who would make the decision as to the nomin e
for his political party? ''
G. W. Shea : ''There is a method where an independent can peti-
ion and get on the ballot . And', that ' s under ah . . Articlet
X of the 'Election Code' ''' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Whiteside, Repre-
sentative Miller.''
K. W. Miller: ''Will the gentleman yield for three very short
questionsa''i Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He 'indicakes he will.''
K. W. Miller: ''Ah.. Number one......'t
W. shea: ''Kenney, you're too good pf a Lawyer to have shor
questions-''
K. W. Miller: ''Representative Shea. isn't there a Senate Bill,
that's over here now, that's somewhat similar to your pro-
posal?l
Shea: ''Senate Bill 1409 is in this Chamber that provide
for a primary to be held in August. And, I am thinking tha
if 4302 is Constitutional, which I think it is, it would
save the taxpayers about a million and a half to two millic
dollars.''
W. Miller: ''Alright.. The second question ..ah.. is, does
this apply to all judges from the Supreme couft down to
circuita''
G. W. Shea: ''This.. This method applies to Article VII,
..'* xs* J J e'z,. '% u zî Oj. . 1 *R7> $ j G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y; k m , ! .. .,1 çL$ lw ' .& r =* * s'r A. 'r e: o e' I u u I sl o 1 s
' (t;'. =F ' ' ! .* ' . Hokl sE o F R E PR Ess :4 T A 'r 1 v Es '
180.Chapter 62 of the 'Election Code'. And, it provides for
the method of filling the vacancy in nomination of any
Judicial Officer including the Supreme Court.''
K. W. Miller: ''Alright.. The third question is, if this Bill
is enacted and the Governor signs it. and say, it becomès
Law ah.. the 20th of this month. Does that... Does this
mean that then 'ah.. there will be, if there's vacancies
in any of those Judge's Offices: there would be nominating
conventions... I'm sorry, there would be the method which
you described ah.. precede this summer with the idea that
they would be on the ballot in November. Is that correct?''
G. W. Shea: ''Absolutely correct, Sir.''
W. Miller:' ''Alright.. Thank youo''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman frcm Hendersdn, Repre-
sentative Neff.'' '
C. E. Neff: ''Sir, I'd like to ask the Spnnsor a questiony.ple se.'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'll yield-''
C Neff: ''Ah.. Gerald, ah.. you speak of this a's a Managin
Committee. Now. I can't see any difference from this and
ah.. the regular ah.. convention type. You ah.. I believe
you ah.. answered here ahile back in a question that you
would use the weighted vote, the five County Chairmen would
meet ah.. that particular District. And ah.., I don't
ah.. understand where we get the Managing Committees. It
was used when this was ah.. appear to me to be the same
as the convention that has been ufed in .the pasto''
G. W . Shea: ''Ah.. Mr. Neff, the convèntion was the method of
.k N .9 N-z- l'l> êr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y; $-. .> 'l.yN t j .s , uupaojs, v.u j STA.T, . (, g. ,=: . . -. . s o o s s o e n s e R s s s N v A. v 1 v p: s
181.
putting Somebodyîs name On the ballot. The Managing Commi -
tee would get to name the nominee only where for some reasc
the.. the.. there was a vacancy in the party's nominee fro
the primary. Ah.. if say, your... your party nominated
a man from Galesburg to ran in your County there for Circui
Judge and he proceeded to drop dead ah.. after the primary
but before the'General Election, ah.. under the present
Law, ah.. he.. his name êouldn't be on the ballot and there
would no.. be no way to fill that vacancy. And. whc, say.
the Democratic person would then run unopposed against a
vacancy. Ah.. under my Bill, this would allow the party
managing committees to fill vacancies in nomination ah..
in case they do occur. I think: it's one of those places
in the Law that we found avoi'd and I'm trying to correct ito''
E. Neff: ''Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman fm m Cook, Representa-
tive Capuzi.''
L. F. Capuzi: ''Mr. Speaker, I now move the previous question.''ve
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman has moved the previous
question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the
opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the
gentleman from cook, Representative Shea, to close the de-
bate.''
G..W. Shea: ''Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
thank ycu very much for listening to this Bill. I'd apprec'-
ate the support of the House so that we may have partisan'
election of judges this Fall.''
x. . .(; wzL . ' G ENE RA L A ssEM nLv- 'k k
'
1 *1777-* ';àt : h;.& s svxvè os ,uu,-o,siI sq . t. -.. 2 ()r .. :.j z .:,J. . . t-e. . / HotlsE OF REPHCSE-TATIVES4, ssbgrtp
182.
ltep . Arthu r 'àkflcser : '' The que stion is , ' shall House Bill
' t' ' All those in f avor signif y b' y voting ' aye '> '. 4 3 CT 2 ppn.ea s . ,
the opposed by.voting 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Repre
sentative simmons, to explain his vote-''
' A. E. simmons'r MAh.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. this.. this Bill, that
was amendek on May 5th. I believe. Now, I don't have a cop
of the Amendment. I wonder if the Sponsor of the Bill woul
just ah.. qzucxly indicate what the Amendment did to this
Bill?''
llep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''I'm sure, that in his explanation,
heï. he could ''do that, Representative Simmons.'' *
G. W. Shea: '$Ah.h Mr. ah.. Simmons, the Section of the Statut ,
thht I amended, talked about a primary held, think, in
April and.. and added a new paragraph. And, also ah..
changed the erroneous date of the primary to the present
ihe third Tuesday in March.nprimary date,
A . E . Simmons : 'lrphank ycu . ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-ltive Duff.''
B. B. Duff: ''Mr. Speaker, I rise to explain my vote primarily
because I was not able to ask the question that I would hav
. liked to have asked ah... about the Bill. And so. I suppose
I have to state, instead of questioning, that it appea s
to be ah.. th-'t this Bill is a cop-out on our responsibilit
to pass Legisiation ah.. in order to fill nominations and...
And, because dl that lack of action on the part of the
Lœ islature, c.'.c..then, defer to the political parties for
... swv ,$$ &. <f' .r . 8. ê cp.. : c- E N E R A k. A s s E M B L Y
, kr . x, :). ) y ,k q, f yj.,ê ç lk . . svxrc oe luutuols. ' t ? nY ' y'x . . 1: 0 tl S E 0 P R C P F? E s E hl T A T I V E S@ l z? N .%* A2,4. q ..
183.
process of no certainty. The Bill says, 'a vacancy in nom-
ination ah.. arises or occurs because of a failure of the
Statutes of this State to pkovide completely and timely for
the nominatlon of candidates who are otherwise to be nomina
ted pursuit to this article'. And. it seems to me, that al
that says is. if we, in the Legislature, don't have the
clurage, the guts, the intelligence of the fortitude to pas
a Bill to dp this, then let's cop-out and give them... and
give the job this summer, because we haven't done anythingyet, to the political parties with no certainties at all
that there will be any contest, ah.. with no certainties at v
all as to what kind of provisions will.be made including
particulars such as the fact that a vacancy arises if some-
body declines in' nomination. A nomination to what, when
no primary has been held? I vote 'no'.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The qentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Glassmn
B. M. Glass: ''Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen
of the House, now, in explaining my vote, I wish you would
listen very carefully to the language of the Attorney
General's opinion. I think, if you do. you will recognize
that this Bill is clearly unconstitutional. Now. the
Attorney General was aksed this 'spqcific question. And,
I'm quoting. 'By what method, if any, may vacancies in nomi -
ation for the Office of Judge in any particular circuit or
district be filleda'. Now, that is the precise question tha
welre concerned with with this Bill, vacancies in nominatio
v', . '..! * ê , ,,'
#
'
tj % r' ' u'.s.jmV> V G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y%4% - ' *-. h 1 y N. ., 5: s a. x v s o g j u u j a o j sû' ç-.t . . .,. y.). .ï../ n sowsu o s n ce Kl s s s-'r A. 'r 1 v c s
' ' s4% ,'
J . dd .. ' .
184.
for the Office of Judge. And, the Attorney General's
. , ,'
us primaropinion. and again I m quoting, is that the wor .
Election, as used the Constitution, is not subject to any
definition that would include a procedure for filling nomin -
tions by party committee, particularly in view of the conve -
tion's obvious version to the naming of candidates by party
@ aétion'. It's a lengthy opinion. The' Attorney General8
' has taken great care to examine this question and comes up
on a foursquare that this.. this procedure is not within
the new Constitution. Enough Legislation, I submit, has
beèn declared upconstitutional without us submitting a.. *
and passing a clearly unconstitutional Bill. And, I would
urge some of those who are voting blgreen' to ah.. to vote
against this Bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Represent -
tive Day.'' . -
R. G. Day: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House,xl rise' to explain my vote because, I think, that thi
Bill is bad so.. from a policy standpoint. Now, it looks
to me like, under this Bill, ah.. two people could decide'
. who the next Judge is going to be. That would be the incum
bent Judge. who.. w%o .is the old favorite, who has been in
office for a long time, ah.. decides ah.. at the last minut
that he's not going to be a candidate and he withdraws afte .
he's been nominated. Al1 he has to do .is make a deal with
. one persony and that's the County Chairman, and he's going
to ah.. to be able to name his successor in office. And, I
' 4 b ; v'rcxkc'j G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yj y..w j ,, jq. . p h t :e çxjl ' . F J ) sT 8.Tl C> F l LL 1 e4 o 1 5. j W CV ' *m. J . P1 D LI S C (:p F R E P H E 5 E N T A. T 1 V E S#z %* .''
J
think. this is bad. I.. I.. I 'cah't understand why we
. shouldn't go back to a party convention and ah.. allow the
precinct committeemen, who have been elected by the people
to represeni them in their party. to make this selection
ah.. just as we do now. It seems to me that that's a much
more democratic and a much safer way of proceedings. I
t think, this Bill is also unconstituti6nal from the stand-
' . point ah.w .the things that Representative Glass as said.
' And ah.., I don't believe, that we're going to solve this
problem in a fair way to the satisfaction of the people of
this State by passing this Bill.'' w
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a11 voted who wish? Take the
record. On this question, there are l10 'Ayes' 35 'Nays'
and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority
is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4650.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4650, an Act to provide a supp e-
mental appropriation to the Department of Aeronautics and
to direct and transfer of money between funds in the State. A '
Treasury. Third Reading of the Bi1l.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Sangamon Repre-b
. ' sentative Jones-'' '
J. D. Jones: ''Mr. Speakey, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
this is the supplemental approp/iation for the Revolving
Fund... or ah .. for the transportation of.. of State .
Officials and..it has been approved by the Appropriations
. Committee. And, Ild appreciate your affirmative vote-'''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The ques-
,... . ' . . ,. ,J' .. x.. ):? à 4''JI'.nG G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yî 41:% ..7.,- ù '
. y' vk . . g w sv A q' e: o e' I u u j *4 o 1 s. ..L.,.,4 =:' .. . .. ... Ho O s E Q F R E:P R ES E hIT' A T 1 V ES*t4 k. :*>'r..!!...!. : e . .. -. - . . -. .. -- .- ---.. -
. :86.
tion is. 'shall House Bill 4650 pass?l. A1l those in favo1: '
. signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have:
ionall voted who wished? Take'the record. On this quest ,!: there are l54 'Ayes' no 'Naysl.. Juckett.. 'ayel, and#
this Bill having received the constitutional majority is(
hereby declared passed. House Bill 4504.'.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4504, an'Act to provide for th
. ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois State
Scholarship Commission. ' Third Reading of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Lee, Representa-
tive Shapiro-n .
D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen of .
the House, ah.. House Bill 4504 makes the appropriation'
llinoisfor the crdinary and contingent expenses of the I
State Scholarship Commission in the total amount of
$59 315 000. Just as a little interesting sideline, tiis# #
'
.
is an increase of approximately $14,000,000 over a year ago.' This year approximately 70,000 students will be granted '
ah.. scholarships under 'The Commission Act' out of a total
number of 110,000 applicants. And, I would urge a favora-'. . ble vote on this Bil1.''!
. #.Rep. Arthur A. Telscer.: ''Is there any discussion? The ques-
tion is, 'shall Hcuse Bill 4504 'passa'. All those in favor
signify by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have#
a1l voted who.wished? Take the record. On this question,
ehere are 14a.'Aves' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having
. received the constitutional majority is hereby declared
j .' . v' % ' rjy, .1' .j e, .%,$ / '' A. -','p - - G E N E 11. A L A S S E M B L Y. kc. . 1 j .,.x. . sx wv e o e 1 u, u j a ., sa yc $k .. . ...j. -..Q J LT ' . ' . yj o w s s o y. s s e Ia s s E a v A v I v c sr.
' .%:..s '
187.
passed.. Hcise Bill 4682.''
Fredric B. ser tL:e: ''House Bill 4682, an Act tc provide for a bl
record of the rssults of elections relating to home ruley 'status and . 'aending certain Acts in connection tlzerewith .
Third Readigk'g of the Bill . ''
Rep. Arthur Az Telcser: nThe gentleman from Morgan, Representa-
tike Rose.''
T. C. Rose: '').ir. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
this Bill pirovides that following a referenda of the part of
a 'MunicipalLty or a County to either opt in or opt out of
hom'e rule, .hat the appropriate election cfficial will noti *
fy the Secr-tary of Stake's Office as to the result cf that
electicn. S'he reason for this is very simple. It is so that..
Since home rule affects businesses and individuals through-
out the State, which may be doing business, for example, in
more than one community and mcre than one County, it provides'
a simple source of informaticn so that inteoested
people çan .determine finally whether or not a ah.. 'municipality
or county does have home rule.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? If not, the
question is, 'shall House Bill 4682 passa'. Al1 Ehose in
favor signify by' votlng. 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no..
Have al1 voted whc wished? Take the record. Phil Collins..
'aye'. O'Brien.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 147
'Ayesf, no 'Hays'. And, this Bi11 having received the Con-
stitutional majoriky is hereby declared passed. House Bill4610.''
.'' :. r -j ' * ''./? 3 .:'em.w',.:' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L. Y( Q '''. ')$ k ik: f. ;... - !.; svxvs orr Iuulsols
. ) # =.. - .. z - Qtz G E o F FI E e- E sc NT A T I v E S. .;;W Ys/!J. ë
'
5-.
. . - m. . vm . x, 188.
Freirie B. Sel Rec ''House Bill 4610,'an Act to amend Section
70) aud- 1501 of the 'Illinois Income Tax Act'. Third Readin.# ' . ' * ' e-of the I)i 11 . ''
Ren. JArthur A. Yelcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage, Representa& . # '
'tive Philip.''
J. Philip: ''Ah..-Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
Hou'se, House Bill 4610 amends the 'Illinois Inccme Tax Law '
.aystn straight,.rs .out of the inequities. K àether ycu live in
Illinois for-oue month or eleven months, of ccurse, you pay
for one full year's tax. What this does is two things. Fir t,:
'
. .
the.defines kesidency. Secondly, it allows for the proporti -ment share of inccme tax to be paid ah.. on It allows
it to be paid for..... If you live in the State for one
month, you could 'pay it for one month. If you live the
state two months, you can pay it for two months, etc. It's
endorsed by the Taxpayer's Federation and, of course, it's .
agreed on by tlne Department of Revenue.''
Rqp' . Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cock, Representa-
A '
tive Maragcs.''
S.'C. Maragos: ''Will the Sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wil1.''
Maragos: ''Representative Philip, is there a fiscal note
on this as to what revenue loss Would be ah.. lost by the
state of Illiyeeis? ''
J.'.' Philip : ''No . 'tcllere is not . ''
c. Maragos: ''Jc there any experience factor by which we!:i rcould find a basisa''l .
i , '$.... . . - - * -.-.-. ... . J .#.-. '' y % ''*'
. ;6* ' 'r> < . C-& E N E. R A L A s s E M B L Yj/- .; -' ,. .. . ) zss.q :,; s..x .: o s , u c, , xo 1 sL.' .' '-.. 1.
. F;2 souse .e asessss-vwmlvss- b(
Nf?'. 2;, z'' '.
189.
J. Philip: ''I didn't understand the question.''
C Maragos: ''Is there any ah.. eicperience' factor basis of
d h onl/ live here part time of the yea ?''how meny resi ents a -J. Philip: nNo.''
S. C. Maragos: ''The third question is.....''
J. Philip' ''Ah.. what... what it does, it allows it to prorate
income tax. Tf you live here for six months, why should yo
have to pay a full year? would seem.....''
S. C. Maragos: ''What is ah... The point... The next questio
all' year, and you were an Iowa resident, but you earned you -
money in Illinois? Is there any provision that says that
this should not be... that this shöuld also be prorated no
matter where you earn your income? Does that Bill cover th t
Point?''
J. Philip: ''Not to my knowledge.'' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discus... The gent e-
man from Cook, Representative Berman.''
A. L. Berman: ''Would the Sponsor yield?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: OHe indicates he will.''
A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. Pate, would this Bill apply to a person
that lives ah.. during .ah.. six months of the year in Illi-
nois, has his Yusiness here and then, gces another six#
months down in.Florida ah.. and maintains ah.. residence in
Florida also? Would they only pay fifty percent of the in-
come tax in Illinoisz''
Philip: t'lf'y lived in Illinois for a half a year, they
. $ ' zr '..( ' +2..3*M %' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 e'.7- ' '': 1 % *' 1, 'kr' f ' 'v S 'T' X' Y' E7 O F ' L. t' 1 N D 1 S. '' #? =.' ' .%.> . H otl SE o F Fl EI3 n EsE N 'rA.T 1 &! E sqlu ex*.. gu.m .
190.
would pay half of a year's income tax in Illinois. When th
i residency in Illinois, become a.. a residenestablish the r
of this State, they would be taxed from then on.''
A. L. Berman: ''Well, my specific question refers pecple, many
of them have substantial incomes from Illinois businesses,
but they spend six months of the year also in Florida. Wha
af/ect would this Bill have cn them?''
Philip: ''If. they're residents. It only affects them if the 're
residents of Illinois.''
A. L. Berman: ''Well these people, let's say, that they vote#
herè, but they still spend six months of the year in Florida '
or ah.. in Palm Springs- - .''
Philip: ''If they're... theydre a Pesident of Illinois, the 'd
be taxed as a resident of Illinois.''
A. L. Berman: ''For the whole year?''
Philip : '' Right . ''
A. L. Berman: ''This Bill wouldn't affect them or give 'them ah..
a t>x cut?''
J. Philip: ''If.. If they're legal residents of Illinois, and
I don't care if they would spend eleven months in Florida,
if this is their legal residents, they would pay one full
YC Y X * ' '
L. Bermanr nThank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#
tive R. Hoffman.''
R.' K. Hoffman: ''Thank #ou, Mr. Speaker and Members cf the House.
This Bill goes a long way in clarifying one of the inequiti s
z.z'' e . l . x. .h t.w>' G E x E R A t
. A s s E M B t. v( . ys...; j , x .1* et . . '- j ' s'ravc olr 'uu,-ols15,''-.2:. -., 'v-. . .* %'.êi ' , H C, kl s E C> F R K P R ï: s L P4 T A 'r I V C s4tlt z... qwxraz
that find witfr people that are transferring into the state
and ah.. leaving the State. This Bill would affect people
who have possibly transferred in from a different State ah..
because of j8b obligations where they are only here threemonths toward Ona end Of the year. The tax would be applica-
b1e for the thzee months they are here. It would also appl
to 'those that are transferred out where they are residents
and are qarning income from the State for possibly four mont s
and then transferred out. They would pay the applicable tax
for four months It's a good Bi11. And, I urge your sup-
port . '' *
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Carroll.''
H. W. Carroll: ''Would the Sponsor yield to a questiona''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi11.''
H. W. Carroll: ''Pate, I understand in the Digest, it says that
it will be... 'it applies to tax years beginning after
December 31st, 1970'. Does that mean that they're going toA '
go back and apply these to '7l inccme taxesr'
J. Philip: ''That is absolutely correct.''
W Carroll: ''How are they going to 'go back on income taxesH . .
that have already been paid?''
Philip: ''Wellv I suppose, they Would have to issue thoseJ' .
people, ah.. t:zat have only been a resident for a part year,
a refund.a
H. W. Carroll: ''And you.... Have you....''. #
J. Philip: ''And, quite frankly, I certainly think that theyfre
.e' x: #' lj; K @lt t i-ewts'' . ..*'. E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yf'.' . j ' 'i' .'nt s . p **
. f (.- . k jL?'. , J. . j, .u s'J'7; C's 'J ;.')s1: ,.7 S.j v s s. , , , . . m.::1..----,' .. .
1
192.
'entitled to it.''
H. W. Carroll: ''Well, that was not the Law a't the time that
they had filed their returns or made their statements that.
tmenewere in the returns. Have you talked to the Depar
about thata''
J. Philip: ''Yes, I have and they have it worked out mechanically.''
H. w. 'carroll: ''And, they've worked out à retroactive effecti -
ness?''
Philip: ''Yes.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The
gentleman wish to close the debate? Representative ah.. *
The gentleman from Lake, Representative Murphy.''
W. J. Murphy: ''Ah.. I'd like to ask Representative ah.. Phili
a question-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'll yield.''
w. J. Murphy: ''Ah.. Pate, youlve got me confused on this now. -
Going back to Representative Be/man's question, if 1. own a
businesp ip this State, and I take my domicile to, weillsay, Florida, you mean, wouldn't have to pay income tax
on the business income that I was deriving from this State
because I was not a resident of this State?''
J. Philip: ''You know, I rpally canut answer tiat. I ah.. That..:j '! 1.. 1.. I would say Ehis, that ah.e.it would seem to me thatrI
if you were a legal resident of Illinois, and you movekz down
to Florida, that ah.. you euld have to pay income tax on tha
income you derived here in Illinois, if it was one month,
two months, three months.''
i=-
' 4. 3 i e-sns ks G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yy,.
t. ) : y y . jm (1 e-.( 7 J sva'ra oe 1 ut-l Nols.t...j /' r, ... ., . uou ss o e' n e: e R ss y: N 'r A 'r I v e:sflyy z... jsl) .
19a.
w. a. Murphy: ''xo... vou.. you're noè answering it yet. secause,
I'm saying that I become a permanent resident of Florida,
but I still havp a business 'in the State of Illinois, yieldi g
an income, but I am no longer a resident of Tllinois, do I
have to pay tax on that incomea''
J. Philip: ''Gee'. I really don't know the answer to that..
thét ah.. question.''
W. J. Murphy: .nBecause that could cause a tremendous loss. If
Ifve got a business here, making a hundred thousand, you'd
better believe that I'm going to move across the line into
Wistonsin.'' *
J. Philip: ',1.. I Nould think you'd... there'd be some type
of ah.. taxation that you would be responsible for-''
J. Murphyz do'n't believe ah . . that we should vote on ah..
a Bill that youdre saying, think'. I mean, T think, we
should know.''
J. Philip: ''Well, I could certainly hold.. hold the Bill on
Third Ry.ading and.. and ah.. get that answered for ya.''
J. Murphy: '' Because right now, for instance, I have a busi ess
in Wisconsin, and I live in Illinois, have to pay on that
business in Wisconsin.''
J. Philip: ''You'd pay.ï. .Oh1 1.. l would thin'k that would
hold true in Illinois, but I'm not yure. What.. What..
What we're trying to do with this Bill, Murph, if a person
has only lived in Illinois for two months, it wouldn't seem
to me, that they ought to pay one year.. full year income
tax. ''
. ' ...r A>.'' ....'j.%% : ' z ... ..' f <o
...,,)''-D> rt G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI y y
. i :.s. .ex y . ( . <' ) œ s 'r a 'r c o Ir I t. u 1 N o 1 sj . (. g .ur... .g sosj ss o s a s s g c sc sj x xv j u ssI x . .. . xuzl .S?; v d '* *.-'' . .- -.. . . . - ---. ' -.
194.
W. J. Murphy: Ifm in agreement With you if it's only...
if you're just talking about a man that cohes into Illinois
a nd géts a salary, he should'only pay for it on the length'
he's here. I agree with that portion of it.of time that
But, it's the other... ah.. if the other part of it is
true, I don't agree.''
J. Philip: .'Well ...n
Rep. rthur A. Telcser! '''Jhe gentleman from Knox. Representa-
tive McMaster.''
A. T. McMaster: ''Will the Sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '%Ie indicates he will.'' *
A. T. McMaster: ''Pate, I know what you're trying to get at in
this Bill. I'm a little bit concerned as ah.. Representa-
tive Murphy is. We have people, who ah.. live in Florida,:; say, for six months of the year, five months of the year.
lj but they do ah.. file a resid.ency or.. in Florida in order
to take advantage of the ah.. hdmestead exemption down there
which cqmes to some $5,000, I believe, for homestead. And,
I think, ah.. we need to be sure whether this person will be
ah.. ah.. exempted from paying Illinois Income Tax or not
under this Bill, Pate. I understand what you're after and,
I think, your thought is good. But, I do want to be sure
that we know what welre getting into.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The
gentleman from McLean, Representative Hq11
H.. H. Ha1l: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question? Ah..
Pate, your only ah.. concerned here with inccme earned out
,...' . s A i ''. .@ b t 'ev c E N E R A j
- A s s E M B t. Y) - z:f'lm -j k' -) - .. jç ; .. .. t j s'rxve o, luul-ols. . T * -.*. . . *'. .2k. t .-' uousc o!r RseRussel'rAvlve:sm't ., zxj,x f.%:j
195.
of the State and not State-earned income. Is that correct?''
J. Philip: nThat's correct.''
H. H. Ha11: nWell., I think, this is ah.. a good Bill. I don't...
I donft... I don't think, that those, who are ah.. question-
ing ah.. ah.. the possibility of a loophole, ah.. have
justificaticn for those fears. I think, this applies to
people who move into this State, and we're not questioning
the income they earn in this State ah.. during that time whe
they're here. We're... Webre questioning... We're going to
eliminate the tax on that portion of income that was earned' f the State prio.... in the same ygar prior to the time -out o
that they moved here. So, in that... ah.. in that... If
that's what your Bill does, and I ihink it is, ah.. then I
ah.. think it's a good Bill and I don't think... I dontt
think that anyone could evade the point ah.. ah.. evade ah..
income taxes by ah.. simply ah.. virtue of living part of '
the time out of State-''
Rep. Arthur A.. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Richard Walsh.''
A. Walsh: ''We11, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemeqqcf the
House, just ah.. brieflv to respond some of the questionsthat have seen raisez. . ns has bden indscated, this silz
just perkains to part time residency to those eoming into thSkake during the taxable year, making a permanent domicile
Illincis or thcse leaving the State during the tavable
year, making their pèrmanent domicile some other State.
Ih does relate to someone who permanent domiciliary cf
...' lt A k , ., d %%% ; #ii h x'%.b. J-hrz'e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y.; .,.j'... ! .)..y! sxxvu os , uujs .,s' j '. . (, / 1.' . ..w . Ho kl SE o F R EPR CSP: @IT AT 1 V ES
, .%%* .'
196.
Illiqois who may speqd six, eight/ ten. eleven monthsFlorida, Europe or aqywhere else qor does it pertain to some-
one who has a business in Ilkincis and they speqd much of
the month or the year somewhere else or the coqverse of
Representative Murphy's situation, who has a business in
Illinois, but resides in Wisconsin. Ah.. that situation' d b this Bill In Repres'entative Murphy'sis not covere y .
situation, the person would pay tax in rllinois cn his I1li-
nois-earned inccme from his Illinois business. It just per-
taiqs to the person, coming into the State, making himself
a pbrmanent domiciliary of Illinois or leaving the State, *
mbking himself a permaqeqt domiciliary of another State.
i I think, it's a good Bi11. It seems to me that we passed aE .I . .comparable Bill earlier in the Session. think, it deserves
the support of the House.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gantleman from McLean, Representa-'
tive Bradley.''
Bradlev: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I was just going to echo those sentiments of Repre-
seatative Walsh because, I believe, the question that Repre-
sentative Murphy brings up, is not germane to this particula
Bill. It dcesn't ap/ly, at all. 'It's a gooé piece of Legis-
lation and I'm going to support it.'t
Rep. Arthur A* Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Representa-* p
tive Duff.''
B. Duff: ''Ah.. would the gentleman yield to ope question,
please?''
.e qk. * t .y , .k: , j c .NN%lb ' --.> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytvz4 ,y y. kê 0.1.).. .: svavc os Iuulnols1 . 7 . j.g r! . . w. .. H U kl 9 E o F G C P R CE 5 E > T A T l V E S'31'34 ! . 11 - ''
.!-----
yga.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will-''
B. B. Duff: ''AK.. Pate, what about the corporate person who
might move out of the State? Would it ah.. prorate the ah..
ah.. income for the year over the mcnths or would it ah..
allocate ah.. according to what formula?n
J. Philip: ''Ah.. Representative Duff, I.. I really donlt know.
As I saye what weire trying to do is make this income tax
as equitable'as possible. That, if a person lives in Illino's
for three months, that's al1 he should pay. Now, if he has
income from ancther State or something, I.. we're not trying
àffect that at a1l And I'm not suçe of what the Law *to . ,
is cn that point.''
B. B. Duff: ''AK.. ah.. thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Representa
tive Tuerk.''
F. J. Tuerk: ''Mr. Speaker, Members cf the House, think, what
the Sponsor is attempting to do here, as he says, make the
Income Tax Law equitable for all. Let me cite you an exampl
of a man, who moved into Illinois, he was transferred from
Ohio to Pecria. He came to Peoria, December 15, 1971. Unde
the way the Income Tax Law was being administered he was#
liable for income for' the whole yèar in the State of Illinoi .
. And, this is certainly inequitable a%.. and this Bill speaks
to that prcblem most specifically. And, I would urge passag
of the Bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ' ''The gentleman frcm Bureau, Representa
tive Barry-''
. -' . - . t''- ' . 'z,.. :q %%c , ;)@p.?.j.%;?>% G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Yi' L- c t ')'..x t u: .e. , uu, .., s. o ' . . svav..: ,?. .r:; .?.* % ' . . H 0 tl S E 0 F R E P R E S E M T A T 1 V E S
198.
T. Barry: HMr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
ah.. I don't believe we have any problem here. I don't thin ,
there's any loophole because' it's my recollection of the 111*-
nois Income Tax Law that firstly. it's charged against resi-
dents of Illinois earning monies in Illinois. And secondly,
it's charged against earnings in Illinois even by non-
residents with reciprocal credits to States that have income
tax. So, therefore, I see no opportunity for a loophole.
And, I think, it's a darn good Bill and we ought to vote
for it without wasting any more time.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there further discussion? If not, v
t he gentleman from Dupage, Representative Philip, to close
the debate-''
Philip: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, as you know, this has been one of the great inequitie
of our new State Income Tax. And what it does. it does
two things. It defines residency and allows the proration
of state Income Tax from the time you become a resident. An ,A '
I move your favorable vote.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill
4610 pass?'. A1l those in favor sig'nify by voting 'aye',
the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Tak
the record. Ccnolly.. 'aye'. Ddff.. 'aye'. Collins.. 'aye'.
And, on this question. there are 'Ayes' 'Nay' and#
this Bill having the Constitutional majority is hereby de-clared passed. House Biil 4129..'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4129, a Bill for an Act bo make
, , . . . .. a k,' ,;.v' o %
'
.:' . j ',w %o ? . ,'='> cx G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y; k . ? 1 :.x,. i.àj. 41 ' . . ) * ) ST A T E o F I L L 1 N D I S. % ( . / =*. . ' . j o up s c o g. a c e n s s c hl 'r A 'r 1 v c sel . Hft s ! . !*:;''': !...-.
199.
an appropriation for the expenses of the Pollution Control
Board. Third Reading of the Bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The ge' ntleman from Cook , Representa-
tive Burditt-''
G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
t he House, this is the regular appropriation for the Pollu-
ti6n Control Board for the next ah.. flscal year. The total
amount of the appropriation is $952.300. The Bill was very
carefully considered ah.. by the Appropriations Ccmmittee,
as you al1 know. And. the various amounts fcr the ah.. dif-
ferent ah.. breakdown items in the budget ah.. were carefull
changed and reviewed after ah.. consideration by the Commit-
tee. Ah.. as you all know, the Pollution Control Board is
the Agency within' the St:te Government which sets the rules
and regulations under which cur environment is controlled.
And second, they're the ones Xhat sit as the judges in the '
rule-making cases. The.. In thek. In the ah.. ah.. .judicial
cases. wThey dc not serve as the inspector or as the enforci g...
enforcing Agency. That's the Environmental Protection Agenc .
Nowy you will recall, that on Second Reading, a number of
questions were asked particularly, about such things as#
Court Reporters. Ah'.. I have personally spoien to ah.. the
Department of Personnel to Bill Bcise. I have an extensive#
letter from him on his suggestions for how ah.. they could
pcssibly help in this matter. I have spoken a number of
kimes to ah.. Chairman David Curry, the Chairman of the
Board. He has a number of suggestions. He, in turn, as
.v ' :% ' !! e .'s 8 t k c E x s R A t, A s s E M B t. v'''iv.j .t e;:4. . g. f' Ju k : ! . $ l''''j s v A. 'r s o e I u u I sl o 1 s
. 't.t.z,r7'..- . sow su o g. a sen csu 1.1 v l.r 1 v c sI , .s*n ad .I ''''''.
spoken to Judge Gulley as Jerrv shea suggested. He's talke
to Mr. Hartnik, who ah.. was interested but did not bid and
ah.. al1 things considered, I'm pèrsonally satisfied thate
while the work that the Board did with Court Reporters in
the past has not been to the very beat ah.. ah.. in the ver
best handling. It will be in the future. And, I therefore,
solicit your support for ah... House Bill 14.. 4129.''
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: HThe gentleman'from Cook, Representa-
tive Simmons.'''
A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield to.a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wil1.''
A. E. Simmons: ''Was there an Amendment No. 2 to this Bill?
And, so, when was it acqopted?''
G. M. Burditt: ''AK.. Amendment No. 2 was adopted today. The
Bill had been on Second Reading ah.. previous day. And, it
was ah'.. it went back to Second Reading today for the pur-
poses of an Amendment-''
A. E. Simmpns: ''What.. What does it do?''i!
G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. The ah.. Amendment No. adds $25,000 to! the Court Reporting Costs. The reason is. is that the Senat
Amendment... The Senate, just today, ah.. took $25,000 off
of the Deficiency Appropriation for Court Reporting Costs
because they've been taking so long over there to get the
Deficiency Appropriation through, that the Pollution Control
Board is not going to be able to spend that $25,000 for hear
ings during the current 'fiscal year. Therefore, they're
going to have to have more hearings next fiscal year. And,
$ 'nuk' G EN ER A L AssE M BLYva jê qt r .J7'&$; svavu o, Iuulsolstb , : .
* '%.%A 7 *. sou ss o F a cea csc -'r A.T 1 v E s .@! @x*..'42 .qg, e
201.
the $25 01.% ah.. was added into thi's Bill so they can have
x. thz;s zhearillt'irl next year . ''.' r. -=
A. E. Simmons: ''Thank you-''
Rez. Arthur A, Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Representa-.. :
-tive Borck.'ars . ''
W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House,
well realize that this is going to pasi. I well realize
that itks nsy. obligation, in.. like the rest of us, to try
to control/the pollution of our rivers, our air, and the noi e,
etcw wilchsn reason. I'm going to vote 'no' not because 1,#
not' in fu.L2 agreement with what they're doing. but to try '
to show them that their aspects of the way they handle thei
jobs: ah.. that ah.. leave a good deal of question and doubas to their reasonableneys, their attitudes towards the
people of this State. Ah.. at the present time, yese
leaves us..., as Representative Blades says, leaves a lot
to be desired. I want to call àttention to them and to you
that thqy qre arrogant. They don't answer our industry on
municipalikies ah.. quickly, sometimes, not at all. They do
not give, at the present time, equal judgement. I know ofa case in Decatur of ah.. a gentleman by the name of Rhoades.
who is a14ou, I've mehtioned this 'before, who ah.. ah.. was
fined $1,509- He was filling his own land and using no
garbage, ffzlltng his own land for the best interest of our
'' community 5'.q the future. This didn't mqtter to them at all.
They're mostly from Chicago, five.. four out of five, from
Chicago whc make a11 of the decisions. The same time, and
rq'C'=t>' ' ..
' - . '. j G E N E It A L A S S E M B L Yx 2 . : . . h ,ïç 11 GTATE OF ILLINOIS.. .. '..* ,. ' ' .'. .. . y *1 D kl S E o F R (: P R E S E hl T' A T l V E S*td LI' z'
Mrs. Day of Fairfield, was eharged... was fined $150. for
the identical offense except with one exception, she was
taking garbage. Our Kustada Comp'any has been refused per-
mission to fill with broken rock. brick, etc.: a gully that
they want to recover for the future use of their plant unless
they cover it with six inches of dirt. Tell me why,a rule
must be that you've got to cover a piece of concrete flagra
with six inches of dirt every night? Right ncw. they're
giving away new rules for landfills for example. One of#
these rules shows the lcgic and the realizm of which these
gentleman operate. The rule says, I should have brought it
and quoted verbatim . But, the rule says that any refuge
must be com... composed into a two foot layer. I ask ybu,
how in the heck can you compos'e a four foot refrigerator
into a two foot layer and bury it? You can't do it. Now,' l f the new rules that is supposedlythat is an actual ru e o
going into effect July the 1st. They're putting: as many
of the bureaucrats of this Country have been doing in our
Federal and our State Government, they're putting an intol...
intolerable burden upcn the ordinary citizen in relation to
the rules and regulations,' the repcrts they have to make.
For Gample, this new rule that goes into effect that says
that every.. ev/ry ah.. truck that comes in to a landfkll
has to be weighed. Who cares how much ah.. weight goes int
a landfill that is going to be buried? And, hcw important
is this to be discussed 'ah.. twenty or thirty years? An #
who's going to dig into those records to see it ah.. what i
'-''-'''''-''''''-'''-''-''W'''''-''SVVX % ' 1 6 V ' 'f 4.'3,..$-4w- G E N E R A t, A S S E 51 B L Y.2 k . .. 't .oh (tf t ' . j sm a're: o s I uu 1 N oIs* $- / n'*. ' 'e . sow sc o e' R ee s ssc ej v A.x I v e! s# ....- x*
203.
may be? It just Lh.. It's just ridiculous some of the thingthat they do. Now, I'm noE attaeking the ideas they''re doin .
I'm merely pointing out, here and now, that a lot of these
gentleman are unreasonable in their rules. the regulations
and the burden they're putting on the people. ' Let alone,
for the last example of idiocy, frankly, of the burning of
leaves in small towns and the denial of a permit. Just last
week: Springfield was denied the right to burn leaves. I
guess... Alright.. I guess my tipe is about up. Is that
correct?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''It's rapidly approaching, Sir.''
W. Borchers: ''So I merely want to point out to you, some of
us ought to vote Ino' to let them know that welre keeping
an eye on them to be more realistic aand more reascnable in
what theylre dcing cause they.. I know of two factories,
that have been run out of Illinois, by this Environmental
Protection Agencyo''ARep. Arthu: A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does
the gentleman from Cook, Representative Burditt, wish to
close the debate? The question is. 'shall House Bill 4129
pass?'. A11 those in favor signify by voting 'aye' the
opposed by voting 'no'. Have a11... The gentleman from
Christian, Representative Tipsword.''
Tipsword: ''Mr. Speaker, I'd merely like to explain my '
'vote. think, you notice that I'm voting 'greent and I'm
.voting for this appropriation. have previously criticize
this Board in a ah.. in some ah.. degree that Representativ
' q&. K A '
:j+ .j) 'uà%. o -mc> G E N E R A L A S S E V B L Y( 4 . : zr ...q '.kk' . J lv#.'re oe I uu,e4o,s
> .
204.
Borchers has.. has explained some of the problems that I ha e
had with the Board. I do not want to kill the Board off.
I think, it has a valuable function to perform. And. I hope,
that the criticism, that has been leveled on the floor of
this House and been made known to it, that it will take to
heart and realize that this is a one year appropriation.
And, at least, some of us will be back here next year to see' that they... whether or not they have towed the mark and
have.. have become an Agency that really performs the functi ns
that we intended in a practical and.. and sane way ah.. at
t he time that we passed the Legislaticn which created them.
There's much that they need tc do and much that they must
A d we only hope that this year they will do ii in ado. n ,much more' ah.. meaningful a much lesp arrogant and a much
more practical fashion so that we can accomplish what we
intende'd in passing the Legislation and they can be a more
meaningful Board to the people of the State of Illinois.''
Rep. Arthur. A. Telcser: ''Have al1 voted who wished? Take the
record. On this question, there are l54 'Ayes', 4 'Nays'
and this Bill having received the Constitutional majorityis hereby declared passedv' House Bill 4131. Representative
Borchers, for what purpose do yo< rise, Sir?''
W. Borchers: ''Vote.. And, I wasn't permitted to do it.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We1l I'm sorry, Sir.''#
W. Borchers: HI wanted to explain my vote and I wasnlt pe rmitt d
to do it. Alright.. T''l1 get it over with right quick. I
was going to merely ask a few of you gentlemen, with a few
. . .. A ;, I.. ..;.. g
'
. xtv .v 't' s i
, k ; # 7 t G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt @ . , h : l2 k 1 't .) sv ..vs o e 1 u.., 'q o ls I. 1t.t,2 .Y.''' ' . socj s (u o s s se p s sc el v A. 'r I v cs .$ ,' .u, 9 & * t-.*
205.
brave hearts, not to defeat this Bill. but let them keep an...
but 1et them know that we're keeping an eye on them. We .'
should have had a few more 'red' lights up there just forthe good of the State and the people.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''House.... Record Representative
Simmons as voting 'no'. You got a vcte, Webber. Hcuse Bill
4131 . ''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4131, an Act to provide for the
ordin#ry and contingent expenses of the Institute for
Environmental Quality. Third Readlng of the Bil1.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Burditt.''
G. M. Burditt: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House: this.. this is the ah.. annual appropriation for
the Institute for Environmental Quality. Ah.. you'll recall
that this is the third Agency that operates in this field of
Pollution Control. The Institute for Environmental Quality
if the research and development arm of the ah.. three
Agencies under the direction of Mike Schneider. This man ha
been doing an excellent job for the last year. Ah.. as
originally introduced, the appropriation was two million
dollars, one million from the General Revenue Fund and one
million from the ah. Public Utilities Fund. Ah.. this Bil
was also very carefully considered ah.. by the ah... Committe
ah.. and ah.. at the present time, the.. the final figure
on the Bill is a milliony.ah.. 552,100. And, I'd appreciate
your support for the Bill.''
,.- -. .. y :, a jw .
.eLh%%t ' 1 Q ' .' R' <?J ,'D s G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 % r' 1 2p*
.) z sv av s o e. 1 uu I sl o 1 sl-) </' L... k. u nï . .. . Hou sc o e' R c pa cse: a'r x 'r I v cs, o ,,,. s:?! . ..-.'
1'' q
206.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any diseussion? The ques-
tion ise 'shall House Bill 4131 pass?'. All those in favcr
signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'nol. The
gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers.'' '
W. Borchers: ''Tn explaining my vote, I want to point out that
this is a group that are making the new rules where you have
to bury, any material in a landfill, in a two fcot layer.
' Now this is ah.., again, the height of intelligence and
reason. And, again, I would like to âsk, how you can put
a two... a four foot or six foot refrigerator in a two foot
area and bury it?'' .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
' tive Lechowicz, to explain his vcte.n . '
T. S. Lechowicz: ''In respnnse to the previous speaker, this
Agency can not make any rules. They don't have any powers.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have al1 voted who wished? Take the'
record. On this question, there are l53 'Ayes' l 'Nay'e
and this-.Bill having reeeived the Constitutional majority ' -
.
is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4139.''
Fredric B. Selcker ''House Bill 4139, an Act to provide for the
. ordinary and contingent expenses of the Environmental Pro-
tection Agency. ' Third Reading of the Bil1.'' .
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Burditt.'' ' .
G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentle
, men of the House,'the Environmental Protection Agency is the
Agency that does the inspecting and is the enforcing Agency
. '#.. &' 'x...' r .r 'P f !j ez'x? 2.):7.:7, c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytt- ) ! .y, t o j s1 .J. J syxvs o'r Iuulsî. , :. .j, w, .t ... . .'.% . H o tl % E o F R E P R E S E: N T A. T 1 V E S*?.. .%* zz
207.
that brings the cases ah.. before the Pollution Control Boa .
The Bill, as originally introduced, had an appropriation of
nine million, 733,800. Ah.. and, after careful review and
consideration by the Appropriations Colmnittee and coopera-
tion on b0th sides of the aisle, ah.. that amount ah.. was
reduced so that the total amount of.. from the General
Revenue Fund for ah.. this year is six million, 859,900 ah..' plus the amount that comes from the U.S. Public Health Fund.
So ah... I'd be glad to answer any questions about it. I'm
sure that you're well aware of the efficiencies that ah..
Bill Blazer, our former Member, has brought to this Agency.
Ah.. I'd appreciate ycur support for this Bi1l.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Palmèr.''
R. J. Palmer: ''Ah.. If ah.. Representati ve Burditt will answer
a question or two?''
. Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
R. J. Palmer: ''George. what about the amount of money that
they have for surveillance? Ah.. how many people or ah..
how many inspectors do you have?''
G. M. Burditt: don't know the exact number of inspectors.
And, of course, it's increasing Secause the Agency is just
getting under way. I.. I do know that it's broken down geo-
graphically so that ah.. the inspectors cover diffqrent
Areas of both the State and difference Areas terms ah..
of the kinds of pollutio'ns that are controlled. The Bi11. .
The Bill ah.. covers air and water pollution which are the
.. ' k. s . -'' -'.,''.ki% ' $1 ' N,' t ez/ - ,.: . g U'7> ,> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YU<'t: ' I..).*.$. : s v. xv e o s , u u. j s o , sx î.u/ ,. .4. .j z .k. . .é. . z H otl t; f: 0 F F# E P 1T E S E hl T A. T 1 M E S*f, .s%..
208..
u uoysetwo main ones. But, it also covers solid waves an
and radiation. Although, radiation is under question because
of a Federal ruling-''
R. J. Palmer: ''We11 then, you would not know whether or not
they have more inspectors this ah.., saye for this fiscal
ah.. or are appropriating more for ah... inspectors this
fiscal year than the... than qthe present... the next fiscal
year than the present year?''
G. M. Burditt: ''There will be... There... This does contempla e
more inspectors than last yeare Romie. But, I'm sorry, I
can't tell you exactly how many more. I'd be glad to get
you that answer and g5 ve it to you after the vote is taken.''
R. Palmer: ''Well, would say this, vote Yor
the Bill.' But, one of the problems, apparentlye that they
have here, is a lack of surveillance over, and they probabl
the lo'ck .. the like of... the lack of quality of those peopl
who do inspect ah.. certain Areas. Ah.. this is certainly
true ipxthe l'andfill Area.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from 'Macon, Representa
tive Borchers.n
W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker, in relation to the lack of quality
and ah.. of inspectors. ah.. 1970 in December.. ah.. in Dece -
ber, was called by a landfill in my Area ah.. with a com-
plaint. I found that the same complaint was made at the
Champaign City Landfill ah.. by the operators at the Chavpai n
City Landfill. This complilint was simple. The inspector:
a gentleman by the name of Larimore represented the Environ-
v' t .: ( :-,m 'e ' c E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yr tT' ' . j w jl f- k.c .. J svaxs os luul-ols' J F -T*.t .'.' .* N'-' , z Hotlï;c OF RCPRESEHTATIVES'' * ... **$''
acv.
mental 'Agency came into to inspect. It was fourteen degrees
below zero at b0th of these places. The men operating were. found to be in their ah.. shelter'by the stove. This Lari-
more informed these gentlemen that they were supposed to be
on their bulldozers no matter how cold it was, operating and
waiting for someone to come in with a load to be deposited..
, IhSo ah..# I couldn't believe that any one man ah .. would ah.. :'
:be so ah.. hard-hearted, frankly, representing a State Agenc
that they'd tell another. .. other men'that they had to be on
fourteen degrees below zero on a Funning bulldozer. So, I
checked it out with Mr. Clarke of the Environmental Protecti n 'tAgency. He confirmed the story. He said; 'yes; that'strue. We don't care how cold it is twenty degrees belöw. #
1zero, they gct to be on the 'bulldozer'. I say, this is very
poor judgement and poor exercise of leadership on the part o
people under that ah.. that Department. The Mayor of Collin -I
ville, just last November, had a young man come into his
of f ice . The young man had pictures of twenty- three homes> ,
and people. They were burning leaves. They rep... His was
a representative, this young man, for the Environmental
Protection Agency, one of their inspectors. He said '1 have#
. twenty-three citations for you to .ah.. process in Collins- '
ville, Illinois. I want you to take action'. And, the May
said, 'What.. What are they?'. He said, 'We1l, I've gone
around and taken the pictures of these people breaking the'
Law. we expect you to do. something about it'. The Mayor
Kas horrified. He took cne look at the pietures. He said,
.1 7 - .*./'..?...I7t> ' q G E N E It A la A S S E M B L Yl <.t.- i: , '.vv. :
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@ .. %*td !.a. . !. .
210.
,1:11 do something about it, if you give them to me'. He
took 'the pictures and.. and the citations. And, in front of
the representative of the Environmental Protection Agency.
he threw them on the floor of the... of the City Hall. Nowy
I think, this is another example of very poor judgement bn
the part of the leadership of the Environmental Protection
Agency. So, I'm going to vote a symbolic 'no' although#
we need some of the things they do.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: NThe gentleman from Cook Representa-#
tive Harold Washington.''
H. Washington: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I..
I have no quarrel with the ah.. Envircnmental Protection
Agency in terms of what they're supposed to be doing nor
with the Envircnmental Institùte ncr with the Polfution
Board. The thing that eoncerns me about all three of' these
entities is their hiring and promotion policies. I look. at
the Pollution Board and I see a total of twenty-four employe s,
. only two black females in relatively subservient positions.
Ah.. I look at the Envircnmental Institute, that have seven-
Eeen employees, and coincidently, none of them are black.
But, the horrifying figures in the.. the Environmental Pro-
tection Agency, where they have a total of four hundred and
twenty-six employees. Now. I have scme interesting figures
here from the Legislative Council. I think: in light of the
fact that the Governor has instituted what he calls a marvel
employment program, in light of thè fact that this Assembly
is dedicated to the proposition tha't there shall be no
Li-?)s.j . - .. v.4* . G ENER AL A SSEM BLia kk. k yhx j.. o k::.! . 2 s-rxva os luulnols
. .k j ; ..:.!. . ': .x . H 0 kl S E Ch F Fl E P Fl E s 1: hl T A T I M E S1,, . !.:rï!:.--
211.
discrimination to hiring an promoting of people on race.
color or creede I think, in light of that fact. propounded
by the amount of.money they're asking, we should know some-
thing about these figures. For example: in the Director's
Office, a total of twenty-four employees, no black. In the
Administration Service, total number of twenty-nine emplcyee .
no black. In the Accounting Division. eight employees, one
' oriental, no black. In the Legal Service, I assume these
are a1l Lawyers, forty-eight total employees, no black, no
minorities, no women, Genie, Giddy. In the Laboratory, fift -
nine'employees, no black, no orientals. In the Sanitary
Engineering Department, a total of a hundred and fifty'
employees, a hundred and ten male, Eorty females. Genie and
Giddy, two blacks out of that whole total. In the Land
Pollution Control Division, thirty employees, twenty-six
male, four females, no orientals, and it follows as night
does day, no black. What is this all about? Now, these are
relatively new Institutions, all of which have been put to-
gether and funded by the General Assembly since the Governor
came out with his mandate that shall be no discrimina.tion
. in the recruitment training and upgrading of people based
on race, color and cre'ed. And, hete we have three Agencies
spending millions of millions of dollars of the taxpayers'
money viclating, violating the màndate, not only of the
Governor, but of the General Assembly and. also the Constitut on
of the State. I would' like to have some answers to this.
At this point, I dare say that we can't stop this Bill and
.e -.....nx --- '.w* k' .u z''..s- h t'cpns G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yç kQ7tG v' ùjF k ' N . x Q s T A. T e: o F I L L 1 11 o 1 s.j. Jd .V ' ' . s o uj s q: o g a s e n = s E N T A. q' 1 v e: s.p
.. j. .j,
212.
I don' t want tti''stop anything that * s anti-pollution . But,I
i l don d t want to be a part of anyi hing that ' sI certa n y
perpetuating institutional racism. And, I'm certain that th
Sponsor of that 4Bil1 doesn't want to be put in that position
I would like to have some answers. think, everybody in
here is entitled to some answers. I think, Senate Partee
is going to demand some answers when this Bill goes into
the Senate. .An8'- if I kncw Senator Partee as well as# I thi k,
I know him, he's -going to get scme answers. Soe think,
we should get tltn answers now to save that problem because
Senàtor Partee .is a much, much more harsher man than you or *
me. Can we have those answers?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gen tleman wish to respond to
that rhetoricalxquestion?''
G. M. Burditt: ''I'd be delighted to: Mr. Speaker and Ladies
and Gentlemen of the House, because that's the kind of ques- '
tion that certalnly can not go w'ithout an answer. Ah.. I
don't kpow .exâctly how many ah.. blacks there are. Ah..
Representative Ep. ton asked me how many Jews there were.
And, Ted Meyer. just asked me how many Catholics there were.
And ah.., Henry Hyde is always interested in women. He aske
me how many women thère. were. I Meane Mrs. Dyer asked me
how many women there were. Ah.. and Henry was interested 'in
the third sex cn''a Bill a little while ago. Ah.. the fact: .ah.. ah.., Harold, is that Bill Blazer who is the Head ofr
. this Agency, when he 'was a Member of this House, ah.. was
one of the fairt.st ah.. and one of the ah.. chief sponsors,
. k' - A -'w . .e :: . .j) ..z; îj 'i.tg> c GENERAL ASSEMBLYq :2kr .'.îâ,M t svxvc oe- IuuIso,sUj # . r' : . r .* S. . *% . . eI o u s Ir o F :4 E e 14 e !; u el w - A' 1 v E s% . . ,%Vt
. . . -
213.
as you will recall. of the Open Occupancy Legislation. whic
was ah.. one of the hottest issues we had during Bill's
Session. Ah.. I can assure you, from my own personal know-
ledge of Bill .Blazer, that there isn't going to be the
slightest kind of discrimination in.. in any kind ah.. in th
ah.. in the Environmental Protection Agency. Ah.. Bill is
an eytremely fair-minded guy. And. there's no way that you' e
going to find any discrimination over there.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Stark, Mr. Nowlan.''
J. D. Nowlan: ''Mr. Speaker, in further response to Representa-
tive Washington, I think, it ah.. should be pointed out,
babl reaiized by Representative Washingtonw that ah..and pro y,
this Administration in the past three years has increased
as a percentage of. total State Employees the numfer of blacks
from five percent of the total number employed to twelve
percent. And, it has tripled the number of blacks in high-
ranking, grade and above positions in the State of I11i-
nois and has appointed the first black Director of a Code.A
Department in the State of Illinois. It's unfortunate ah..
but it's the nature of educational and cultural system to
this point, that the Environmental Protecticn Agency positio s
are highly technical ;h.. positions which require ah.. a
great educational and technical skill which we, as a societ ,
have not yet provided blacks and other minority grcups.
And, it is ùhere where we must direct our attention. And,
I believe, the record of this Administrition across the Boar
in its commitment to the hiring of minority groups is with-
...' y. <* :J h%c.r.xz o E x E R A L A s s E M B L vr z..u , y: -$ t i'k.h.j . sxxvs oe , uu,-o Isy. - 'e+ . .1 1/ *?.''' ' *. R . H 0tJ SE O F R EeR EES E HT AT I V CS.. ? . J .)v''-!t7D''
214.
out parallel in the history of the State of Illinois-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser; ''Now, let's ah.. Representative
Washingtone I thought, you had concluded your remarks when
asked Burditt a question. So, youlve.. you've got some more
time left. Do you wish that time right now? Proceed, Sir.''
H. Washington: I just want to make abundantly clearthat I'm not accusing Bill Blazer of being discriminatory.
I know Bill Blazer very well and that's why I'm so much
disturbed about it just because I kncw that he doesn't
countenance discrimination, tacet or otherwise. But, I'm
faced with the horrible facts. All of these lucrative jobs. .
having been given out in the past two years, and the black
brothers are getting ncne of'them and very few of the black
sisters or the orientals and very few females and polish,
they tell me. I want some answers to that. I think,
Bill Blazer is the person tùat can give them.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive E<el1.''
R. W. Ewell: ''Mr. ah.. Would the Sponsor ah.. ah.. yield to
a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah.. Where is' the Sponsora''
R. W . E'well : ''Well . . . .. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Here he cumes... Here he comes...
I was just getting the answers# Mr. Speaker.nR. W. 2eel1: ''We1l unfortunately, ah.. we' have too many#
answers and that's our problem. I ah.. wonder if the Sponso
would amiable and sort of take this Bill out of the record
.. ' .i x ' ..e'V t' e -) ' ; . .j' ,'''?.>zy ''e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytk
-.ts 4: .' , .k. .- , . 't:.1 'C.- . . s 'r A. 'r s o e t u t. 1 pl o 1 s'kt ..' .r', .r . owsc o y, a sps ss c x .r s.x 1 u ss: e . pjfz ;. 4 %1L e Oï1 ...- -
. zl5
' until tomorrow so maybe we could juét a little discussion
with the mh-mDirector, etc., some other time and we'd have
no problem? Ande I think, that ah.. the fine record that
the ah.. Govêrnor is setting would be kept in order and
. everybody would be happy.''
G. M. Burditt: '''AY.. Ray, ah.. 1et me say, I would much rather
not'do that for a lot of reasons, p' rimatily, beeause we're
so late in the Session. And, this question, we can certa in1
get aired in the Senate. Ah.. let me say, that I have also
spoken to the Director, and among othersy the Supervisor of
the 'Dupage Râvez Basin ah.. is a black. That's one of the
fa:test growing and one of the most important Areas in the
State. Andy it is directly under the supervision of a new
blaek supervisor. Ah.. there are ah.. other blacks who are
in the Agency. And this ah.. And, you weren't here, Ray.
when Bill élazer was here, but ah.. if you'd had been, I'mI
suye you would have shared Harold Washxngton's and my views
on Bill nlaper personally. He's not going to counkenance
anything like that, as Harold Washington sayso''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genklelan from Cook, Representav
tive Hyde.''
H. J. Hyde: ''Mr. Speakëry Ladies and Gentlemen of the Housee
this state has'a mechanism setup Yo ah.. give relief to
ah.. anybody w'po's been ah.. discriminatpd against because
of their race, 'because of their color, because of their
religian. And; I would submit that the distinguished gentle
man from Cook: who raised this point, ought to compile a lis
.. . .. .$z'h; ' . ' 'z.,. %%:. . 2) ? ?. -C -)->, r. . G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B 1. Y- tf-; .) rz-j, : sxxvs .s luujs.ods y... . .
, *t<? =: ' ' *. H o kl s e: o F R E e Fl e: s E pl 'r A 'r 1 v E sî Xi''? - '' * *%'ï *
2l6 .
however long or short it is, of applicants who applied for
these posts with this Agency and who were qualified for the
job and who were denied their job because cf their race.
And, I will go with him to the appropriate Agency to see
that relief... proper relief is accorded as I'm sure will th
Sponsor... the Chief Sponsor of this Bill. It doesn't help
the discussion to list jobs and to say that there are noblacks or there are no orientals. think, the revelant
statistic would be, how many met the specifications for the
job, the qualifications and applied for the job. wanted the
job' and didn't get it because of their race. Thene we have '
something to talk about. Absent that information, the rest
is ah.. ah.. simply muddying the wdters.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive Barnes.''
E. M. Barnes: ''Mr. Speaker and .Members of the House, in all
deference to the Sponsor of this Bill and to my lea'rned
Colleagme: .who' just spoke on the other side of the aisle.
I think, the facts are clear. Now here, the Governor' has
been pounding his employment program and its fine record in
this field by ah.. through other Agencies and throught the
àah.. public media. nd. here, we have a Department that has
been fully under his administration,. that gave birth, if you
will, under'his administration. Clearly; here is a Depart-
ment that is going against the grain of œverything that he
. ' has said his administraticn is doing. Now, in a1l respecti
to the Sponsor of this Bill, I thinky it's incoherent to see
....q:.,tja t:,-. .z x . a x I'lbt% ' G ENER A L A SSEM BLY. tt'.;,(.p. : . g. t-vt .' I f sv A'ru o e' 1 uu 1 e4 o 1 s
qf v. .r?t..' . '' -1-4 ' H Qkl SE o F 1: EP R E SE bl T A.T I V E S 1
217.
that the Director's Office has twenty-four employees. of scm
I imagine is typists or secretaries. Yet/ none of them are
of a minority rpce, not oneo' Now, here it be the people,
I imagine, i) we are going about our business in some quarte s,
telling private employers, if you will, that they should 1iv
up to etiquettes for equal rights for everyone. And here,
thé Governore the highest office in thé land, the highest
office in thAs State, if you will, has said that this is the
policy his administration is caring for. Yet, an Agency,
that gave birth to his administration, is not doing the very
thing that they expounding that they are saying that they *
are doing. In the Legal Department, you have some forty-
eight employees. I assume that some of those are Lawyers
and it.. it.. it''s unbehooving to me that in forty-eight
positions in the Legal Department, ycu could not find one
black qualified Lawyer. Nowy. something is wrong. Something
is extremely wrong when somethihg like this exists. . If we
are not going to have a commitment from the administration
of Public Agencies, a commitment from the Governor of this
State right down to each and everyone of the people that liv
in this State, how can we expect that any help can come from
any quarters? I've heard so many. Representatives stand up
in these halls and holler about ihe.problems that we have
with welfare. Welle I wonder why the prcblem with welfare
has not increased, ten times foure when we do not have the
. commitment from the Governor of this State to insure that an
Agency, that was born under his administration, would of
...'qk <. ;nx.zikkx :k?. 4,TR> - G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 è
.A ''-rqj, : svxv.e o, 'uulao,sj. ' . , .;p ltzy/ T?'U'.. z H o @ s ? o F R E e R E s E N T & TIV E sf/dz 4,r,. r)!x=
218.
had to of passed practice employment rules. I just can'tsee Now. if that is the case, think, we're all kiddi
ourselves and we should al1 go hole and start all over agai .
I think, that this Agency needs to take ah.. we need to tak
a hard look at this Agency. I think, that there are things
that should be sturdier. believe, that, in a11 respect
to the Sponsor, that he should pull this Bill out of the
record, hold it for a day or so and 1et us try ko talk and
come up with some type of solution here.'''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-
tive capuzi.''
L. F. Capuzi: ''Ah.. Ladies and Gentlemen and Mr... Ah.. and
Members of the House, I think, I have the solution t6 this
problem. I am a Member of the Mincrity Group Representatio
ah.. Committee here. And, It's my understanding that this
Departm'ent will come under our ah.. Committee ah.. and ah..
a thorough investigation will be made. Of course, that's
all aho. entirely up to ah.. Mr. Epton and the rest of the
Members of this Committee. And, I think. they'll a1l enjoi
with me to try to find a solution here or ah.. so that we
can straighten this whole matter out.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-
tive Caldwell-''
L. A. H. Caldwell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I recall that four years
ago, ah.. the Governor made a commitment that ah.. Minbrity
Groups, including sex, would be given every opportunity to
seek and be upgraded higher than upgraded in State Governpent
.. . . k .. xZ 'k M''1? tD?>kh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y0..,. .,, (i t . ,..1 xvwve oe ,uulaopst. , ... ' M. *$ . Hoklll QF REPIRKSCNTATIVEBz p& 'g*'* . -
219.
positions. I would ah.. say to the Sponsor of this Bill tha
we are asking a little of nothing asking him to hold this
Bill, at this time, so that we can discuss this matter. I
Mruld suggest that the Governor said to a group of eighteen
black legislators that he had two task forces, one to canvas
the high schools of this State, urging Minority Groups to
seek employment. Another, would do so at the College level.
It was interestihg to me that Representative Nowlan indicate
ah.. hinted, implied that blacks were. not capable. Andy
therefore, they would have to ah.*. prepare themselves in
order to qualify for the types of jobs that seem to ah.. be
manned in this particular Agency. I merely want to suggest
that the creation of this Agency, implementation of it,. with
as the same old pattern of a lack of equality of opportunity
indicates to me that we are continuing our system of sus-
taining of what I'd like to call ah.. institutional racism.
Now, 1, personally, am not blaming the Gcvernor or not
blaming ah...ah.. my Cdlleagues here on the floor who are.A'
not black. I blame me.. myself and my fellow black brothers.
I believe, that what we need to do, is to get right down
to the kernel of this thing and.. and dehl with Andfif we sit here like ah.. dummies and 1et this type of thing
continue as it... we have some figures on practically every
Department i Government here and the pattern is the same.J'And: 1, 'personally, have.. have become a little sick and tir d
of canvassing these halls throughout theàe buildings here
'in the State complex and seeing seas of white faces and very
.z'k yj;A 's.1 wl7J>z G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- kè ;; l e , (.k . : svAvs oe 'uu'so'sl'. î. y, n... .. .* 4,'e. . HOLIIE 0 F R ?PR ESeNT A T I %/ esYQ# '1 * *
220.
few blacks. We have some token blacks in practically every
Department here ah.. except probably the ah.. parts of the
Secretary of State's Office. And, think, that it's time '
for al1 of us to come face to face with the actual facts
and determine, once and for all, if we are going to continue
to tolerate that or are we going to change it. And, I dongt
believe, that the black Members of this ah.. Assembly ah..
will ah.. ah.. will be reaelected if we continue to sit'
' tihere on our seats and do nothing about it. So. I m sugges g
to ah.. the.. the sponsor of this Bill to.., if he woulde
ah.. hold it and.. and let us ah.z discuss ah.. with ah..
the.. the people who are going to mann this brand-new
Department. You see, kE we are gcing to do as the administ -
tion promised us, ah.. be fair and hire a proportiovate numb rof ah.. minority groups/ we would have done it. We wou' ldn't
have to be here on the floor asking for you to do this, at
this time. I think, that that's a little enought to request.
I believe, that we ought to get down to some serious talk,.e-#
'
ah.. the two days that we're going to be here or whatever
time, and.. and spend the rest of this Session trying to
get this matter straightened out Xor the best interest of
everybody in this State-''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''The gentle'man from Cook , Mr. J. Wolf-''
J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I move the
E previous question.''r ' .' Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''All those in êavor say 'aye' opposed#
'no' the 'ayes' have.it and ah.. wèlre back to the main
/3 .%. ; ''''''-x ' . G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y4: ' : ,.. (1 G. t . ; s'ra'rz o e I uu1 e: o Is
.'.j. z r. . -. zss oe ases sssavxvlv cs. . , . :1 ol , ; î r $ a ....S'. .
22l
questiov. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt, to close.''
G. M. Burditt: '.Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, ah.. if I thought that thete was the slightest ques-
tion in this Agency of all Agencies in the Statez ah.. o/
any discrimination, I would be very happy to comply with the
gentleman's request that this Bill be held. Ah.. I'd be
happy to spend ah.. hours of .debate, but not one second for
tribute to a point that, I think, is completely poorly taken
against an Agency which ah.. has been' under the supervision
. . *of one of the fairest men that I've ever knowp in my life.
And, when he was a Member of this House, he showed it by
being a chief sponsor and a very active sponsor of a1l kinds
of Bills which were designed to eliminate discriminatiohs
of any kind at any State Agency or any Public Body of any
kind. So ah.., with ah.. having said that, ah.'. those of
you, who knew Bill Blazer when he was here, will cerkainly
concur, I'm sure, in everything I've said about him. And#
I dpn't know why this point was raised. It has neverbeen discussed with me ah.. or ah.. with Mr. Blazer or befor
any of the Committee Hearings which this Bill has gone
through ah.. in the ah.. in the House. It's been through
two Committees. Ah.. I think, it's a little late to raise
the question and ah.. I'm sure that Mr. Blazer will have ah..
eomplete numbers and everything else when the Bill is called
for ah.. a hearing in the Senate. But ah.., with a1l due
respect to the gentM man's request, I.. I would like to have
a vote on the Bill today because we are so late in the Ses-
. . . ;, . . 'tg. '' . r 1 . .S u-/ ou:nb-t*'-jtsê-'b G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yd j IJ . .k , ujs!j c> ç -. I . s .!. A .r u o g I u u 1 e: o $ s
.? - gn? . ?.* '% x : : . y4 o u s r o !: a e: e R E s 1: a T A. 'r 1 u Ir sl . m * .
222.
sion. b'ecause. I know, that this point is not well taken.
And: I can only point out that there wasn't a single name
mentioned of ànyone who is qualified who applied for a job
and wés not given a job. Unless, we get to the specifics'
in an issue like this there's no way that we can answer#
the questions. So ah.., Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,
I ah.. urge you to vote in fqvor of House Bill 4139.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah.. from ah.. Cook. Mr.
Lechowicze ai.. for what purpose do you rise?''
' T. s. Lechowicz: ''Mr. Speaker. I was hoping that the Sponsor
would reconsider his position. It's absolutely true, exactl
what he's stated as far as the two hearings that this Bill
went through and both... and the thorough hearing that 'it
had in the Appropriations Committee. But, in turn. to pro-
mote the tranquillity and peacefulness of this House, I wou d
hope that the Sponsor would pull this Bill.' If you want ah..
I you want ah.. If you want ah.. to take a vote, take it.
But. take.. take some advise-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Ah.. ah.. the question is,
'shall House Bill 4139 passa'. Al1 those in favor will
vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman ah.. from#
cook. Mr. R. L. Thompson.''
R. L. Thompson: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I've listened to the discussions here and I've heard
one of the speakers, the Sponsor of this Bill, with all due
respect to him say, 'it'.s a little late'. Yes, it is late
maybe to pull this Bill. It has been late down through the
..œ* :< f '. :.! ry ve :.:. N?N ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L; t u t-r&.,!: svwve oe ,uu,wo,sç-.k . ... 7t/ I'F .Y.. . HQkl 5E o F n Ee R E SE N T A.T 1 V CS, t z . I .
...1: % ':.. . . .. .. -.
223
years and it's later now than you think. And, I heard
another speaker say, 'that we think we can rectify these
things'. We're too far down the r'oad now to start think-
ing about these things. We want to know these things are
going to be rectified. And, I don't think, it's ever too
late to do good. And, the reason that I'm going to vote 'n '
on this Bill is because I'm not satisfied with the explana-
tion that I've heard. And, we have met with the Governor
on matters similar to this last year and he made several
promises to us. If hets not going to keep his promises,
I think, something should be done about it. And, 1'11 vote
'no' on this lssue. Thank you.''
'' 1 man Trom Unton , Mr . cùoake . ''Hon. W. Robert Blalr: The gent e
C. L. Choated ''Well Mr. Speaker, ah.. I have not heard a11#
'
.
of the discussion on this particular piece of Leglslation
as the Members sitting around me well knows. Ah.. I
have ah.. come back on the floor while there's iome very
meaningful ah.. attempts to question certain practices, as
I understand it, that has been ah.. brought about by the
' Agency. Ah.. I think, that it would be no more than
I Tair to allow these gbntlemen an opportunity to ask
the questions which they desire fo ask. Therefore,
Speaker, I'm going to vote 'present' on this piece of Legis
lation and hope that it is held over until such time as
these Members do have an opportunity to ask the questions
that they desire to havë an answer And vote
5 W V e S O Z 't ' * ' '
' .. ï'''-'V G E N E lt A L A S S E 56 B L Y
. 4 :: .. ; y.. 'ù1 f ./ . . 2 svxve oc I uuI N ols. .(g.ns. ., sousu og ssessss-vavlw cs.v
'
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'
le'' *L!... --. - - --
zz4.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Record the gentleman as
'present'. And ah.., the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr.'
Hyde . ''
H. Hyde: MThank you, Mr. Speaker. And I ah.. hope and I
will await, with great interest, a submission of a list of
those blacks, that applied for Jobs for which they were
qualified and for which they were turned down because of
. their race. And unless, that list is forthcoming, then, I
think, we can determine the sincerity wlth which this ' araument has been put forward. And, 1 think, they ought to ''''''' .! have as much time as possible to come up with that list.
We're now in the middle of June. This Bill was filed in
April and this issue was first raised when we're on Thikd
Reading. And now, the game is to lay off and to bring the
Legislative Process to a halt. Fine. If thatts the way
the other side of the aisle wishes to conduct themselves
on this and other Legislation, it is their responsibility.
It is nFt our/. We're fulfilling our responsibility. But,
if there has been invidious discrimination, generalities
won't do. The general charges won't do. I think) Mr. Blaze
should be held accountable'for the Job that *as denied the
black girl or the black man becauae of his race. And, take
as much time gentlemen and ladies on the other side of the
aisle, to come up with that list. But, you'd better come
up with that list.'t
Hon. b1. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. The gentleman
from Cook, Mr. Davis.''
... , k & #. : .z.tr;k .. tl -.r ,!jj,/0aJ% 4c1>, c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L/ <:-r'#-(..jt svxvs o. ,uu,s-ols; f.- t! .. L.?..6. . aouss ov sseacsssvxvlwes .ll. .. .%3.z
zz5.
C. A. Davik: HMr. Speaker, Ladïes and Gentlemen of the House,
since the distinguished Majority Leader wants me to come up'
wïth a list, I thought, I'd just dig into my file here on
F.E.P.C. I'm going to come up with a list now. Wefre not
accusing Mr. Blazer, satan as Harold has put it. We're
not accusing him. In fact, wefre not accusing any of them.
But, whatls that mans name who say/ 'eternal vigilance is th
. prïce of liberty'?'' We want to be vigilant in this matter.
C i l I felt proud when the other' day, in the Appropriaerta n y,
tions Committee, a young lady came in there and she was
deïinltely black and she headed the Department of Family
and Children Planning. This was certainly progress. And,
I agreed with it and I congratulated his Excellencyz' the
Governor,.on it. But, I'm still going to be vigilant. Now,
' let me give you a few figures since you want a list. There
were o;e thousand, seven hundred and eighty-seven cases file
in the Fair Employment Practice Committee. And, do you know
what haypened? We had to return eight hundred and thlrty-
five of those cases.....''
Hon. W. Robert Blalr: ''One.. One.. One moment, please. For
what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf
rise?''
Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we might have the time
light put on for explanation?''
Hon. W.-Robert Blair: ''I'm sorry. I've got it on here.''
C. A. Davis: ''This won't take but a second. I just want ah..
want ah. want ah.. to enlighten you. Eight hundred and
. '' Ql .* .7' '.. '.'t .. t'q*w t GENERAL ASSEM BLY(c.. . : 7 - jû' ,d... :-3 svax.e ov 1 uu,xolsî7u, t nv... . owss o. scpsasusxaxjwes .
* . yj
t ..v . ., . :*-!.''
226.
thirty-five of those cases were turned.... returned because,
you know, we have pleaded with this House and pleaded wlth lt
and the House had passed it. Butf wefve pleaded with theSenate and the Senate has either ignored it or defeated it.
We've pleaded for initiatory powers. We don't want to go
in and ah... have a man go in and say, 'my boss discriminate
against me', because, we know., that he's going to be fired
the next month. b%e want the Commission to be able to
institute some of these charges. And, the Commission in-
vestigated nine hundred and thirty-five of these one thousan ,
seven hundred and eighty-seven cases and they had to return
eight hundred and thirty-flve of them. That's why we want
to be vigilant and here's your list.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah. from Cook, Mr. Duff.'f
B. B. Duff: ''Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed by the apparent sincerity
of some of the comments that seem to be being made, at this
time. Here, we have one of the most important items facing
the people of Illinois the problem of a clean environment.
And then, we have people stand up, people who many of us in
this House have had repertoire with and have tried to help
ïn the past, stand up at a' political point in time, towards
the final days of the Legislature', make unfounded charges
of unsubstituted facts, come about to try to say that a
Governor, who has accomplished some of the greatest records
in the area of the lack of discrimination in the history of
the State of Illinois i's not doing what he should be doing. '
relative to a mïnute percentage of the empl- . of the employ es
. ' ' ' 'A &' 'a.. 362% . )j .ou. izl'>k G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI ? t2.) ;-h. : svxxs o, luu'xolsf./k.., ,'..v.?.). .* ''%''e -. . H Q Ll S E Q F R E e R E S E $1 T A. T 1 V E 5t o .. s%?ï ' '' '. 2 *
' 227
of this State. A mere point four percent. And, any statist'-
cal study of the employement of the State of Illinois will
point out, not only that he has ra'pidly increased the employ
ment of blacks in the State of Illinois, but ilso, that
there are many parts of State Government which would have a
larger percentage than the total belated to the population.
énd, these persons, at this point in time, would suggest
that the Governor and the other parts of State Agency should
dismiss those blacks which are in Agencles where there is
larger than a percentage of the population then if they
would not take that position, they should not, at this time,
say that a mere point four percent of the.. of the percentag
of State Employees indicates, in any way, lack of aciion' on
the part of a Governor who has been doing a remarkable Job
in this Area.''
Hon. W. Ro'bert Blair: 'lThe gentleman from ah. . Cook Mr. Ewell ''
R. W. Ewell: nMr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, ah.. itfs
rather regretful that ah.. the gentleman should ask for
statistlcs because we have an awlull wealth of statistics.
I would like to state, first of all, in this explanation
that we're not accusing thê Governor. The Governor stands
at the top of the liat of lmproveïents. And, when lt comes
to employment, will never be bipartisan. Yes, it's true.
The Governor's Office has fifteen percent males black-employ d
and ten percent females. He leads every other State Agency
and that's a fact. We w'ill not deny the facts. However,
there are Agencies in this State, and we can take a look at
SK g ''ià lszw y c E N E R A t, A s s E M B t. Yw,j,i n,) tJ r3. svwvc o'v juul-ols-.. ,, -@: , '. .* N . . H o u @ E o F a t e R l lq N T' A.r I v e s .) .. . @ ----. . ... -. .
228.
them, and we're talking about their personal staffs now,
we're not talking about the Code Departments, that do not
have such fine records. And, in the past, I have not been
so reminiyced that would not attach the Secretary of
State's Office. And, 1'11 say that the Secretary of State's
Office, at this time, has one of the lowest proportions. No ,
we have here a complete compilation of al1 the statiptical' '
data of all those Agencies. We shall give credit where
credit is due. But, when criticism is necessary, will
come forth because we are no longer content to' be a silent
majority.f'
Ilon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. ah..
Burditt.''
G. M. Burditi: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House ah.. my own personal opinion that this argument,>
'
particularly, in regard to an Agency of which Bill Blazer
is the head is about as specious as any argument that I've
ever heard on the Tloor of the Houle. But, my own personal
opinion, obviously, doesn't count for something like this.
Ah.. lt's the opinion of the majority of the Members of this
House, ah.. since we have no Democratic votes whatsoever,
we can not pass this Bill today, at least, without any Demo-
cratic votes ah.. request the leave of the House to take
the Bill out of the record.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAlright. Does the gentleman have
leave? Alright.. Wet11.. Alright.. We'11... Wefll take
out of the record and ah.. for what purpose does ah.. doe
78.:,% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt'h : $ T , x:t .. . : *TAT'? oe luul-oll!- ' Y *
H@Kl*E OF ''KPR/*KNTATIVKI '),x. ;- . .. . - - --
229.'tleman from ah.. Cook Mr. Harold Washington, rise?''the gen ,
H. Washington: f1I rise on a point of personal privilege, Mr.
Speaker.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: f'Alright.. State your point.''
H. Washington: ''Ah..that illupions me as to the motives of the
people Who were propounding the p/oposition that rapid
dlscrimination apparently exists in these three Departments.
And, since I introduced the issue, I assume, that those re-
marks were directed to me. And, I want to respond to that
very briefly by saying two things. One, the figures, which
Representative Barnes and I read off, just came to us today.
; So, we are timely. We responded as quickly as we could. Th!E: Bill was on Third Readlng and we moved immediately t6 bringIi .
it to the attentlon of the House what we considered to be
discrimination. Secondly, and more importantly, Representa-
tive Hyde has thrown down a guantlet, but he threw it at the
wrong place. WeAre not going to give you any figures, Mr.
H de I.t is n'ot incumbent upon us to give you any figuresy . .
as to what blacks applied and what females applied, what
orientals applied and what was the disposition. We do not
owe you that. The State of Illinois has an affirmative
action program and policy in refeYence to recruitment, an
affirmative, positive recruitment from every Agency in State
Government that has been enunciated by the Governor and that
has added to the entire administration I understood. So,
youfll get no figures frbm us. What we will say to you is
simply this, we have presented a prima facie case, a damn
. . x >..w
' f b. ) LT. G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 T'Ji- ) 1 if , ' .t C BYXX'Z W V 1 V' L d M 0 ' 94 ' ' ei ' e *' *% . $1 o u 1 * * F' R E P R E. * E M T A T I V K *
J - *,< . .. . . - --- -- .-
. gag.
good One and We Want Some ansWers to
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde.''
H. J. Hyde: ''Ah.. Mr. Speakqr, I don't wish to prolong this
discussion but I'm not surprised... Ifm not surprised at'#
the remarks of the distinguished gentleman, who Just spoke.
But, of course, I didn't want figures, want names. If..
If they charge discrimination, they can't say there's a
. , . prima Tacie case made because a certain percentage of employ es
are not members of one race or one religion or one ethnic. *
' group. That won't wash. You have to show, in my Judgement,
you have to show me a black person, you have to show me a
Chicuano, you have to show me a Chinese, you have to show me
a Catholic, you have to show me a Jew, that that Agency're-
fused to hire because of their blackness, because of their
Jewishness, because of some other reason extraneous to their
qualiTications. Until you do that, Sir, you haven't made
a prima facie case and youlre just talking in the wind.''
Hon. W. Robqrt Blair: ''For what purpose does the gentleman
from Cook, Mr. Barnes, rise?''
E. M. Barnes: HAH.. Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal
privilege.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''State your point.'t
E. M. Barnes: ''My point is, ah.. during the debate, was allude
to that some felonious figures had been given out. Andi
since I was the one that received these figures, would 1ik
to make it crystal clear. that these figures came from the
Legislative Council here. Now, if the figures are felonious
'(q nz .'cltt-r'rx'c c E N E R A L A s s E M B t. v) y.%2 k-' t l-ot sxwvs os 'ut-jslo'svt.)...y...p ' % R. = *. H O tl S E o F R e: P R Er 5 E N T A T I V E S
%t G v , R' '. . ! . . .. ... . .. - . ... ........ .. . ..... -
they are felonlous because they came from the Research Arm
of this Legislature. And, I want to only add that to the
debate. And, if what it is that yöu want, any one of you
can get this. They, from thelr.. The Agency itself gave'
these figures to that Agency. And, we asked Tor them and
they gave them to me. Now, I canl't blame a person up here.
But, accordlng to these Jigures, out of Tour bundred and
twenty-six employees ln that brand-new two year o1d Departme t,
only seventeen are black and two orientals. And you can't,
'
discount that.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. House B111 4452. The ah..
gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff.''! Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4452, an Act to provide 'for the
ordinary ànd contingent expenses of the State Highway Safety
Program, direct.... and to direct the transfer of money be-
tween funds in the State Treasury. Third Reading of the
. B i l l . ' 'Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff. '
E. Neff: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, House Bill 4452 is the appropriation from the Highway
Safety Fund for the State Highway Safety Program for the
fiscal year beginning July the 1972. Now ah.. through
an agreement, why ah.., from the Leaders on 50th sides ah..
and the Appropriations Committee, an Amendment was put on
this which reduced the appropriation from $15,055,300 to
ah.. $13,430..33.. 33 aùd 200. Ah.. in other words, a ah..
the original appropriation has been reduced $1,175,900. Ah.
o ç ; e, G I.: N E R A j- A s s If M IJ L y: . ( 7:.7>4 N '(TJ. : ,ê o , sJ- sxavc o,e Iuulao,s
.z t.zJ:...-' . sou ss o e. a sen s ss a-r sx I v us- . *.'
.
232.
And ah..' In this, Mr. Speaker, it would be a total of
$4,400,000 would be transferred from the Road Fund and the
Driver's Educational Fund into the. Highway Safety Fund as
the State's share in this jointly funded program.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there further dlscusslon?
The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. Al1 those in Tavo
wlll vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have al1 voted who' . .
wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question,
there are l55 'Ayes' 2 fNays' and thls Bill havlng received)
. *the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Reso u-
tions. Well ah.., there.. there's some concurrences.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Joint Resolution #140, Concurrence
on the ah.. Senate Amendment...''
Hon. :. Robert Blair: NThis is ah.. ah.. simply a clarificatio
of ah.. last week's adjournment resolution. The gentleman
ïrom ah.. Yeah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde.''
H. J. Hyde: ''We1l Mr. Speaker, this ah.. Resolution really
has already been adopted, I presume. But ah.., it's been
clarlfied and lt just says that welre going to come into ah.
today at 11:00 o'clock. So, having done that, ah.. the.. 1.
The problem is with the Senate ah.. adjournment. So,
in any event, ah.. I move we adopt House Joint Resolution
#140 . ''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The ah.. motion is that the
House concur in Senate Amendment to II.J.R. #4.. #140. All
those in favor say 'aye'. the opposed fno' the 'ayes' have# )
it and the House concurs. Alright.. Now, one moment for..
c' t A ..e vh . .(k <? %' x4 tk. 77-, % G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: ty: :-. '!-,.,w.)k svwx.s os IuujsolsCV ''* $ ? *'X* ' -% , HotisE o!e R EracscN'r A'F1v e:sl é. . , s .%!,' ' .' !
. -.. -'
233.
Welve got to go back and pick up ah.. one Bill on or two...
Is is one or two? On Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4674. '
F dric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4674 a' Bill for an Act in relare ,tion to State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bi11. Ah.
One Commlttee émendment. Amend House B111 4674 on Page
andsoforth.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: uThe gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate.''
C. Choate: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker) I'm going to move, first,
that a' h.. the Committee Amendment No. l be tabled. And, I'm
going to advise the House that the reason that .I'm doing
this is because 1 have another Amendment that I'm going to
offer now. And, the Ccmmittee Amendment is included in the
much larger Amendment that I'm going to offer. And, ihe'
reason that I'm olfering the Amendment from the floor to
replace the Committee Amendment is because it's at the
suggestion of the Administration, the Bureau of the Budget,
' if that I offered.. ah.. suggestion of the Auditor of Public
Accountsr the State Treasurer's Office. And, the peoples
who was on the Committee, appolnted by the Governor, and
the Auditor to study the implementation of the Auditor's
Office. So, therefore, Mr/ Speaker, I would move that would
table Committee Amendment No.
Hon. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman offers and
moves the adoption of Committee Amendment No. l and then
moves to table that Amendment. A11 those... Does the
gentleman have leave to iable? Hearing no objection, ah..
Committee Amendment No. 1 will be tabled ah.. and ah.. ah..
.' .. k wj' . . .'. xxJ G t c$. &. 1#' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 Vo t J , J e'?l k s v w v u: o fz 1 t. t. I el o 1 s. . t ? -65 ' ' @% . sotl ss o e n s psk cse a'r w.r I v cs
234.
Are there Turther Committee Amendments?'f
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, Choate, amend House Bï11
4674 on Page 1, Line 13, by deleting îfiscal officer',
andsoforth.'':
Hon. W. Robert Blair: I'Ah.. the gentleman from Dnion, Mr.
Choate.''
C. L. Choate: ''Ah.. yes, Mr. Spéaker. Now, this is the Amend-
ment that I wish to move the adoption of, which includes
ah.. Committee Amendment No. And, this Amendment simply
brings about technical changes and clarificatiöns as far as
the Bill is concerned, at the suggestion of the Bureau of
the Budget, the Auditor of Public Accounts and the Blue
Ribbon Committee, that was appointed by the Governor and
the Auditor. And, I would move, Mr. .speaker, for the adopti n
of this Amendment.''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''Is there any discussion? The question
is on the adoption of the Amendment. A1l those in favor
wtll saye'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the
Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third
Reading. 4675.'1
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4675, a Bill for an Act trans-
ferring functions from the Auditor of Public Accounts to the
State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bi11. No Committe
Amendments.r'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAny Amendments from the floor? Third
Reading. Now, Resolutions.'l
Fredric B. Selcke: HAh.. House Resolution- ...''
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235.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAlright.. We've got... Wait a minute.
Wefve got an Introduction of a Bill. Read the Bil1.''
Eredric B. Selcke: ''Ah.. House Bill ah.. 4685, ah.. Palmer,
et.al. Appropriates $553,600 to the Department of Local
Governmental Affairs. First Reading of the Bill. House Bil
4686, Duff, et.al. Amends 'Unified Code of Corrections'.
First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4687, makes an appro-
priation for the salary of the dtate Comptroller. First
Reading of the Bi1l.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Palme .''
R. Palmer: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. and Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, in connectian in House Bill 4685, which has to do
with the State's Attorney Appropriation Bill, that part that
is to be #aid Tor by the State. Ah.. I now move you thatthe provisions of the appropriate rule ah.. 38, I believe it
is, be suspended so that this Bill can be ah.. can go to
Second Reading without reference to Committee. This has
been cleared with the other side.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there... Does the gentle
man have leave ah.. Alright.. Hearing no objection then th#
'
rule will be suspended. And, that Bill will be advanced to
the order of Second Reading withdut reference. Ah.. Resolu-
tions.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Resolution... House Resolution 700,
Rayson, et.al. House Resolution 701, Lindberg, et.al. Hous
Resolution 702, Hirschfexd. Ilouse Resolution 703, Hirschfel .
House Resolution 704, Walters, et.al. House Resolution 705,. ..y .. ..z'e k YA A 4 '
'' u-u. 6 .'Tts. dr G E N E R A L A S S E M I 1 L Y
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236.
Tuerk, eteal. House Resolution 706, Colltz, et.al. House
Resolution 707, Houlihan, et.al. House Resolution 708,
b i ler House Resol -capuzi, et.al. House Resolution 70 , Sch s .
tion 710, Pierce, et.al. House Resolution 711, Rose, et.al.
House' Resolution 712, Hanahan, et.al. House Resolution
713, Otis Collins, et.alu House Resolution 714, Waddell,
et.al. House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 141,
Timothy Simms. House Joïnt Resolution 143, Lindberg, et.al.
Ah.. House Joint Resolution 142, Conolly, et.al.''.
*
Hon. W. Robert Blaïr: ''Tbe gentleman Trom Cook, Mr. Hyde.''
H. J. Hyde: 'tThank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of
the House, the Agreed Resolutions. House Joint Resolution
l4l directs the Illinois Legislative Investigating Comhiisio
ah.. to in/estigate the solicitation >nd disbursal practices
and general operational activities of all Law Enforcement
Associations ah.. in Illinois. House Joint Resolution 142,
ah.. is an expansion of House Joint Resolution 100 of the
Seventy-sixth General Assembly which permits the Waukegan
Port âuthority to use an additional twenty-elght acres for
recreational land in conjunction with its port Tacilities.
House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 143 directs the
Legislative Investigating Commissibn ah.. to study all aspee s
of Dram Shop Insurance. House Resolution ah.. 700 ah.. ask ..):
directs the Illinois Institute for Environmental Quality .l to study the ways in which to preserve drinking water re-! .
sources. llouse Resolutioh 701, congratulates the Crystal
Lake Jaycees. House Resolution 702 ah.. commends Mrs. Ruth#
. J, a en o llomer , 1 A noA s or ' orty- t hree years o gooz. ' .A l..- .' 2 .-! 7-N, , ' . . ' , ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y
.; '-te. G4% r 1. 'pv, ï s .r . v s o s , u u , ,q o 1 so -,.. iq.?.6.''- ' uouss oe ssenssssvav'vss .
237.
teaching. House Resolution 703, ah.. congratulates Mrs.
Wayne Bender ah.. upon her retirement from teaching. House
Resolution 704 eongratulates the Alton Senior Athletic Team
during the past year. House Resolution 705, congratulates
William Blackie upon his retirement as Chairman of the Board
of the Caterpillar Tractor Company. House Resolution ah..
706, ah.. commends the Israeli Government for augmenting
the security'personnel around. Tel Aviv Alrport. House Resol -
tion 707, ah.. congratulates Miss Lois Jean Green on her
selection as 'Miss Black Joliet of 1972% House Resolution
708, ah.. expresses our deep sorrow upop the death oT former
Captain Joseph C. Granata, of the former Chicago Park Distri t
Police and the brother of own ah.. Pete Granata. House
Resolution 709, ah.. congratulates Dr. Everett Coleman of
Canton, Illinois, upon recent selection as 'Alumnus of the
Year' by the University of Iloinois School of Medicine. '
House Resolution 710, ah.. memorializes the Superintendent
of Public I'nstruction to submit a circular to the School
Children of Illinois to determine their preference as to the
choice of an Official State Dog. Ah.. think, that it shou d
be pointed out that Representative Pierce is the Chief Spons r
of that one. House Resolution 711, is a memorial ah.. ah..
upon the death of Mrs. Beaulah L. Runkel of Jacksonville,
Illinois. House Resolution 712 congratulates John Desmond
upon his retirement from the Chic>go... Presidency of! .
i the chicago Teacbers'unlon. House Resolution 713, espresses!
! our sorrow upon the death of Walter Parrish, an Assistanti .
, . . !. ,i it' . . . .j o. kxq J ). .- (; s x s R a j. A s s E M j; j. y' ;J7 - ' ' ..6 '''711'*%1. 'I
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238.
State's Attorney of Cook County. House Resolution 714,
congratulateq Carl J. Meyer ah.., chief enèineer of Radio
Station WGN upo: his retirement. I now move ah.. We have
another one?'. Oh! Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I would like to with-
draw House àoint Resolution 142 from the list of Agreed
Resolutions. That was the one concerning the Port Authority
in Waukegan because I have learned thaf it is not an Agreed
Resolution. And so, that ls to be removed from my motion.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''For what purpose does the gentleman
from Cook, ah.. Mr. or... Cook, :r. Schlickman, rise?l'
E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the '
House, as heard the brief description of these Agreed
Bills, understood and do understand that two of those Reso u-
tions are Joint Rèsolutions directing the Legislative In-
vestigating Commission to engage in investigations. Now, if
these are éf a substantive nature and absent evidence of .
demonstrable emergency, object' to the suspension of the
rules without ref... and the advancement.. or the adoptionZ '
of these without referral to Committee.''
Hon. W. Robert Blao'r: ''Wel1, I think, that's a reasonable re-
quest. Ah.. Why donft. Yeah... Wedre in agreement to
take those out zah.. and have them. go to Committee. The'
jj! gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss.
D. A. Henss: ''W&11 I.. I suppose that it has now been takenI #I
out. I was going to ask that the one Resolution about ah..
an investigation of Dram Shop Insurance be read in its
entirety. Is Abat one of them which wil1.. will be taken
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239.
out of the ah.. of the list?''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. ah.. Cook, Mr.
Schlickman, the two that you requested, one was the Dram
Shop, what was the other one?''
E. Sehlickman: f'One was Dram Shop and the other was investl
gation of ah.. Law Enforcement Officials that engage in the
solicitation of funds, believe, as I heard them.''
Hdn. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Ah... Does that take care
of your problem? Alright.. For what purpose does the
gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, rise?''
G. W. Lindberg'. ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. Representative Matilev eh
and I are the Joint Sponsors oT l43 calling for the Legisla-
tlve Investigatlng Commlssion to loök lnto the problems oT
the Dram Shop ah.. ah.. Insurance Field. And, my concern
ah.. about taking it out is that it may not get a hearing
in what little time is left ah.. I think, if anybody has any
questions, perhaps, when it gets over to the Senatey.ah.. it
could be-entertained. But, it's Just a matter that just camto my attention and I want to try and get it ah.. ah.. throu h
ah.. so that they can get working on it.''
Hbn. W. Robert Blair: ''Well, 1,11 assign it to your Committee
ah.. if that would facllltate getking heard.f'
G. W. Lindberg: 'fWe11 Mr. Speaker, could I then move to sus-#
pend the appropriate rule so that we can hear ah.. ah.. this
Resolution on ah.. ah.. right.. right now?''
Hdn. W. Robert Blair: 'iWell I don't think, that's a propermotion. Ah.. a Member has requested that that ah.. ah..
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Resolutions in the.. in the Agreed Resolutions ah. come out!
Ah.. and that seems ah.. a Tair request. And ah.., youîve
made a request so you can get a hearing and I'm trying to
facilitate your getting a hearing as quick as possible. And
1'11 put it in your Committee so that you can call it as
quickly as possible. The gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry.''
T. Barry: îfI was Just going to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that any
Resolutions, perhaps, should have that same fair treatment.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''That's... That's Tine. 1111 ah..
1,11 ah.. assign ah.. ah.., if we take those out, they would
be in the category of further Resolutions. And on the one
that Mr. Lindberg... Yeah... What numbers do you want? Al-
right. 1'11 assign 143.... Is that a H.J.R.? Alright..
1'11 assign that to Judiciary II. And, wait a minute now.
The gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, asked leave to.
suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so he can have that hear'd
in his Committee- ...''
G. *. Lindberg: ''After ad/ournment tomorrow.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Ah.. immediately following adjournment
tomorrow. Is there objection? Hearing hone, then ah.. leav
is given for that purpose. N6w, Mr. Simms has ah.. 141
And ah..,... And ah.., we'll assign that to Exec. And ah..
he requests the same leave to have ah. it heard. And now,
we'll ah.. recognize the gentleman from Cook Mr. Juckett' )
as to when he's going to have a meeting.''
R. .S. Juckett: ''What time do ybu have ah.. planned for adjourn
ment tomorrowy Mr. Speaker?''
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241.
Hon. W. Robert Blalr: 'fprior to the Soft Ball Game.''
R. s. Juèkett: ''We have most of the Stars on Executive Committe .So ah.., are we going in early tomorrow morning, Mr. Speake/ 'f
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''We11 ah.., Appropriations ls going toj *
meet at nine. Ah.. wefre going in at 10:30.''
R. S. Juckett'. ''We11 then, Executlve Committee will meet at
10:00 o'clock tdmorrow morning in Room M-5.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well ... Alright.. There's not a con-A
flict. So ah.., then the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett,
asked leave to walve the provisions of Rule 17 so that that
Resolution may be heard in Exec. tomorrow morning at 10:00
o'clock. Okay.. Now, Mr. Lindberg, for what purpose do you
r i S O ? ' '
G. Lindberg: ''Ah.. Mr. Spèaker, then I would like to change
the Judiciary 11 Meeting tp 10:00 o'clock for the same pur-
pose. Ah.. we can meet in any ah..... We'll....''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright then, there's not a conflict
with Appropriations on thaf. So, we'll have that at 10:00,
but what about the rooms now? In your usual Meeting Room?''
G. W. Lindberg: ''Our usual Meeting Room is the floor. Are you
. going to be on the floor, Dave? 'We11, would you asaign it t
Exec. then, Mr. Speaker, and wedll handle.. hendle them b0th
in Executive?'f
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nTiat's fine. 'Alright.. 1'11 rerefer
143 from Judiciary 11 to Exec. Thq gentleman from Cook, Mr.
Juckett, ah.. asked suspensions of the Rules so now that tha
Resolution cah be hea/d in Exec. Is there objection? Heari g.
' qk. 'i .: '
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242
Hearing none, ah.. it will be set. Now then, Conolly. The
gentleman from Lake, Mr.'conolly, for what purpope do you
J. H. Conolly; ''Yes.. Since one ah.. House Joint Resolution
142 is taken out of the Agreed List, ah.. could I have the
same treatment of that? lt beats setting up another Committ e
Meeting by somebody else.u
Hon. W. Robert Blair: l'Well Execw you mean?''
J. H. Conolly: ''Well instead of trying to get Conservation
or somebody else ah.. Meeting. If you'd 1et me call a meeti g
of ah.. John Henzy Klein's Committee, I'd be more than glad
to do it.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: uWell, my inclination is that this would ..
Alright.. The place that this ah.. Resolution would be refer ed
would be to Conservatlon. 'Ah.. however the Chalrman il not#
on the Tloor. So, you can't ah.. have that situation for a
hearing tomorrow. Now, iT you'd rather wait and try to have
that arrénged for immediately after ad/ournment tomorrow,
we'll see if we can work that oùt. Otherwise, wefll ask...
we could have the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, handle i
Exec. Now, what does the gentleman from Lake Mr. Conoll) y
ah.. desire?''
J. H. Conolly: ''I think, since tbe meeting is already being
held under the ah.., it would be cobnvenient to have it done
the firs't thing tomorrow morning so they can handle tomor ow.''
Hon. Robert Blair: 'lAlright- ''
J. H. Conolly: ''I Just as soon have put in Exec.''
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243.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr.
Juckett, asks ah.. leave to suspend the provisions of Rule
17 so that this Resolution may also be heard ah.. tomorrow
ah.. at 10:00 olclock in Exec. Is there objection? Hearing
none, that ah.. ah.. Rule is suspended. The gentleman fro'm
Cook, Mr. Juckett, for what purpose do you rise?''
P. S. Juckett: ''We11, Mr. Speaker, I had an oblection to the
Dog Resolution. These Reso'lutions have, in the past, when
they were the fish and the tree and the other ones before th t
have always gone to Exec. And, would appreciate iT that
was taken out of the list and also sent to Executive.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright now, we're down to the 710,
House Resolution 710 . And ah . . , there has been objectionjk 'raised by a Member concerniflg aving that heard . And I#
have not called for the vote on the Agreed Resolutions yet.
So now, does the gentleman, that's the Chief Sponsor, Mr..
Pierce, have a comment?''
M. Pierce: ''Mr. Speaker, dbes that mean that a11 cat and
dog Bills go to the Executive Committee? I would like to ah .,
at the appropriate time, move to suspend ah.. Rule 53a for:
.the immediate consideration of an.adoptlon of ah.. this Hous
i Resolutlon.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well now, wait a mlnute. You want to
take it out of the Agreèd.... You don't object to taking itI
out of the Agreed Resolutions, but you are going to object
to its going to Committee. Correct? I mean, you want
to move then ah.. to Euspend so you can have it heard now.
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244 ..
Is that right? Or do you want to have it heard in Exec.
tomorrow?o
D. M. Pierce: f'Oh! We'1l... Welll hear it in Exec.''
2on. W. Robert Blair: ''Okay.. Ah.. now, .the gentleman from
Cook, Mr. Juckett, asked leave to suspend the provislons of
Rule 17 so that that Resolution may also be heard in Exec.
tomorrow morning at 10:00. Is there objection? Hearing non ,
ah.. then we'll put that one in Exec. Are there any Agreed
R:solutions left to vote on? The gentleman from Cook, Mr.
H7dO.''
H. J. Hyde: ''Well Mr. Speaker, I regret to ah.. notice that,'.
apparently, the Agreed Resolution process has broken down
along with the Agreed B1ll ah.. process on Workmen's Compens =
tion. And next, I suppose, the Consent Calendar will be in
jeopardy. But, in any event, I now.move ah.. ah.. for 'âdop-
tion of those few Agreed Resolutions left, Mr. Speaker.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright ah.. Al1 those in favor of the
adoption-of the Agreed Resolutions say 'aye' opposed fno'# )
the 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted.
Are there further Resolutions? Oh: There are no further
'ones. Alright now, the gentle- .. There are a coupze of
requests here before we wind up. The gentleman Trom ah..
Cook, Mr. Duff, has a request.''
B. B. Duff: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. 1 request, and have talked
to the Leadership on b0th sides, that Ilouse Bill 4686 ah.. b
read on First Reading and moved to Second without reference
to Committee. The Bill is ah.. There were some errors
.. ' vk ' '' .e' x% ë. ''.G.;. l ' ' c s x E R A L A s s E M B t, v.
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245.
found by the Reference. Bureau in the drafting of the Code of
Corrections. And the Bill was brought to me and to Mr.# .
Londrigan, who are Members of the Council by. . they were
brought to us by the Council for the evaluation of criminal
defendants and we need to move it through ah. . as fast as
we can. They are merely errors.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright. . Ah.. does the gentleman have. leave ah.. to advance ah.. that Bill to the order of Second
Reading without reference to Committee? Hearing no objectio. #
then we will so advance that Bill. The gentleman from Cook,
Mr. Col... Phil Collins.''
P.W. Collins: ''AH.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. I ask leave to suspend
the provisions of Rule 17 so that ah. . Senate Bill ah.. 1569
may be heard in the House Committee on Electlons Tbursday
Morning at 9:00 A.M. in 212. I've talked to the Leadership
on both 'sides of the aisle.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there objection? No. Alright...
Ah.. thel, hearing none, the Bill wi11... the provisions of
Rule 17 will be suspended so that this Bill may be set for
hearing. No ah... Set for hearing. Thursday... Thursday
at 9:00 o'clock. 9:00 A.M. 'in Room 212. The gentleman from
Cook, ah.. Mr. Regner.''
D. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker , Ladies and Gentlemen of the
House, I would Just like to announce that the Appropriations
Committee that was to meet this afternoon. . . - . .''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Wel1,' wait. . Wait.. Wait.. Wait... Wait
a minute. Now, let's back up. The Clerk . . The Clerk didnf'
z'kksctl, r ' xz x' kk-g -7> fç G E N E R A L A S S E M 11 L Y- ) $-,,-. bw j.'t.. '.! . STA'C'E o F I uul-olsLi r:'''?-* , . l o kl S e; f; F R E B R E S E N T A T I V E s .11t2 ' * Y6'e ?t/J---'
246
quite keep up there. On Duffts Bill, ah.. we advanced that
to Second without reference to Committee. Then, on the re-
quest of Mr. Col.lins/ we set that Election Code for hearing
on Thursday at 9:00 A.M. Leave was given for that purpose.
What's the number of the Bi11, Phil? 1569. Senate Bill l56 .
And now, we're to Mr. Regner for a re... for an announcement ''
D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. the House Appropriations Committee, that
' was to meet this afternoon, will meet tomorrow morning at
9;00 A.M. on the ah.. House Floor.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea.''
W S'hea: ''AH. . Mr. Speaker, ah.. House... or Senate Bi'll *
1318 ah.., I hope, we got straightened out. Originally,
they had collin's name on as a sponsor and like lt to be
listed with my name. And, Itm wondering if I could get that
Bill put on Second Reading without reference to Committee.
It's a four hundred page B1ll'ah.. Trom the Relerence Bureau
which corrects ah.. some of the items. Senate Bill 1318.
Irm asking if it can go to Second Reading without reference
to a Committee? Perhaps) it's not on the Calendar. It came
over from the Senate, but I don't know if it went to a Commi -
tee or not.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Yes, the problem... That... That one
will take overnight. No, I know where it is. It's being
held because it's a non-exempt Bi11. And ah.., al1 Bills,
that come over from the Senate ah.. that are in the category
' of being non-exempt since that motion that was made to
table everything) ah.. we.. we are we think, they proba ly
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247.
copped the ones flying over ah.. ah.. at the same time. We
hope to get it resolved over night. And then, let's enter-' tain your. your request tomorrow.
''
G. W. Shea; ''Alright..''
Hon. Robert Blalr: 'tokay.. It was tabled? Oh yeah: It was ..
ThP Clerk's Office has checked on it. It was tabled.
Alright.. Ah.. The gentleman from Hyde, ah.. Clyde. or Cook
Mr . Hyde . ''
H. Hyde: ''AH.. Mr. Speaker, I now moke that the House stand
adlourned until the hour of 10:30 A.M. tomorrog morning.''
Pon. W. Robert Blair: ''A1l those in Tavor say 'aye' the oppos d
'no', the 'ayesf have it and the House stands adjourned.''
ADJOURNMENT AT 7:45 O'CLOCK P.M.
6/13/72MeS.
I
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