socrates on evil and ignorance

Socrates on Evil And Socrates on Evil And IgnoranceIgnorance

IntroductionIntroduction

SourcesSources Socrates (470-399) wrote nothingSocrates (470-399) wrote nothing Aristophanes: Aristophanes: CloudsClouds Xenophon: Xenophon: MemorabiliaMemorabilia Plato wrote many dialogues starring Plato wrote many dialogues starring

SocratesSocrates



SocratesSocrates Can we trust what Plato says? (‘Socratic Can we trust what Plato says? (‘Socratic

Problem’)Problem’) Assume that early dialogues give Socrates’ Assume that early dialogues give Socrates’

viewsviews



SocratesSocrates Can we trust what Plato says? (‘Socratic Can we trust what Plato says? (‘Socratic

Problem’)Problem’) Assume that early dialogues give Socrates’ Assume that early dialogues give Socrates’

viewsviews EuthyphroEuthyphro, , ApologyApology, , ProtagorasProtagoras, , MenoMeno, and , and CritoCrito

MethodMethod

Sophists in the backgroundSophists in the backgroundCombine two trendsCombine two trends Extensive foreign contacts leads to Extensive foreign contacts leads to

cultural relativism. (Custom is king of cultural relativism. (Custom is king of all.)all.)

MethodMethodHerodotusHerodotus

When [Darius] was king of Persia, he summoned the When [Darius] was king of Persia, he summoned the Greeks who happened to be present at his court, and Greeks who happened to be present at his court, and asked them what they would take to eat the dead bodies of asked them what they would take to eat the dead bodies of their fathers. They replied that they would not do it for any their fathers. They replied that they would not do it for any money in the world. Later, in the presence of the Greeks, money in the world. Later, in the presence of the Greeks, and through an interpreter, so they could understand what and through an interpreter, so they could understand what was said, he asked some Indians, of the tribe called was said, he asked some Indians, of the tribe called Callatiae, who do in fact eat their parents’ dead bodies, Callatiae, who do in fact eat their parents’ dead bodies, what they would take to burn them. They uttered a cry of what they would take to burn them. They uttered a cry of horror and forbade him to mention such a dreadful thing. horror and forbade him to mention such a dreadful thing. One can see by this what custom can do, and Pindar, in my One can see by this what custom can do, and Pindar, in my opinion, was right when he called it ‘king of all’.opinion, was right when he called it ‘king of all’.

MethodMethod



MethodMethod



Importance of Law leads to demand for Importance of Law leads to demand for teachers of argument – Sophiststeachers of argument – Sophists

MethodMethod



Importance of Law leads to demand for Importance of Law leads to demand for teachers of argument – Sophiststeachers of argument – Sophists Proud to declare that they could make the Proud to declare that they could make the

worse case appear to be the better caseworse case appear to be the better case

MethodMethod

Sophists in the backgroundSophists in the backgroundResultResult Ethical relativism. Ethical relativism.

MethodMethod


Protagoras: ‘Man is the measure of all things.’Protagoras: ‘Man is the measure of all things.’

Aristotle explains:Aristotle explains:[w]hat seems to any man to be the case [w]hat seems to any man to be the case

really is the case. But if really is the case. But if this is so, it follows that this is so, it follows that the same thing both is and is not, or is the same thing both is and is not, or is bad and bad and good, and so with what I said in all other opposite good, and so with what I said in all other opposite

statements; for things often appear to be statements; for things often appear to be beautiful to some and beautiful to some and the contrary to others, and the contrary to others, and what appears to each man is the what appears to each man is the measure. measure.

MethodMethod


Thrasymachus: ‘Justice is the interest of the Thrasymachus: ‘Justice is the interest of the strong.’strong.’

The Athenians explain to the Melians:The Athenians explain to the Melians:So far as right and wrong are concerned So far as right and wrong are concerned

they think that there is they think that there is no difference between the no difference between the two, that those who still preserve two, that those who still preserve their independence their independence do so because they are strong, and that if do so because they are strong, and that if we fail to we fail to attack them it is because we are afraid. attack them it is because we are afraid.

MethodMethod

ElenchusElenchus Socrates professes ignoranceSocrates professes ignorance

MethodMethod


The Oracle at Delphi calls him the wisestThe Oracle at Delphi calls him the wisest He enquires of those who claim to knowHe enquires of those who claim to know He finds that they don’t knowHe finds that they don’t know At least Socrates At least Socrates knowsknows that he doesn’t that he doesn’t

knowknow

MethodMethod


The Oracle at Delphi calls him the wisestThe Oracle at Delphi calls him the wisest He enquires of those who claim to knowHe enquires of those who claim to know He finds that they don’t knowHe finds that they don’t know At least Socrates At least Socrates knowsknows that he doesn’t that he doesn’t

knowknow The search for truth is a collaborationThe search for truth is a collaboration

Sophists treat argument as a competitive Sophists treat argument as a competitive sportsport

MethodMethod

ElenchusElenchus Question and answer session with the Question and answer session with the

following rules and goals:following rules and goals: Socrates asks Socrates asks allall the questions. the questions. The interlocutor must answer every question.The interlocutor must answer every question. A definition or principle in moral philosophy is A definition or principle in moral philosophy is

sought from the interlocutor.sought from the interlocutor. Socrates seeks clarification, gaining assent for Socrates seeks clarification, gaining assent for

various propositions.various propositions. These propositions are used to show that the These propositions are used to show that the

proposed definition or principle is unsatisfactory. proposed definition or principle is unsatisfactory.

MethodMethod

ElenchusElenchus Tends to look aimlessTends to look aimless Tends to end without a conclusionTends to end without a conclusion Nevertheless we think there are some Nevertheless we think there are some

Socratic doctrinesSocratic doctrines

DoctrineDoctrine

Vengeance is always unjustVengeance is always unjust In the Homeric Tradition In the Homeric Tradition wrongdoing wrongdoing

ought to be repaid in kind. ought to be repaid in kind. Justice was conventionally defined as Justice was conventionally defined as

helping one’s friends and harming one’s helping one’s friends and harming one’s enemies.enemies.

In the Crito, Socrates argues against this In the Crito, Socrates argues against this view of justice.view of justice.

He begins by comparing a healthy body He begins by comparing a healthy body with a healthy soul, and argues:with a healthy soul, and argues:

DoctrineDoctrine

Vengeance is always unjustVengeance is always unjustSocratesSocrates: And will life be worth having, if that : And will life be worth having, if that higher part of man be depraved, which is higher part of man be depraved, which is improved by justice and deteriorated by improved by justice and deteriorated by injustice? Do we suppose that principle, injustice? Do we suppose that principle, whatever it be in man, which has to do with whatever it be in man, which has to do with justice and injustice, to be inferior to the body? justice and injustice, to be inferior to the body? ((Crito Crito 47e)47e)

DoctrineDoctrine

Vengeance is always unjustVengeance is always unjust Crito agrees thatCrito agrees that

Not life, but a good life, is to be chiefly Not life, but a good life, is to be chiefly valued.valued.

A good life is a just and honourable one. A good life is a just and honourable one.

Doing wrong is always evil and Doing wrong is always evil and dishonourable. dishonourable. Socrates concludesSocrates concludes

We must do no wrong. We must do no wrong.

DoctrineDoctrine

Vengeance is always unjustVengeance is always unjust Socrates arguesSocrates argues

S: And what of doing evil in return for evil, S: And what of doing evil in return for evil, which is the which is the morality of the many – is that just or morality of the many – is that just or not?not?

C: Not just.C: Not just.

S: For doing evil to another is the same as S: For doing evil to another is the same as injuring him?injuring him?

C: Very true.C: Very true.

S: Then we ought not retaliate or render evil for S: Then we ought not retaliate or render evil for evil to evil to anyone, whatever evil we may have anyone, whatever evil we may have suffered from him. suffered from him. ((Crito Crito 49c)49c)

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledge And ignorance is evilAnd ignorance is evil A ‘Socratic Paradox’A ‘Socratic Paradox’ ‘‘virtue’ = ‘virtue’ = ‘aretêaretê ’, a type of excellence ’, a type of excellence

in functionin function

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledgeSurely virtue makes us good.Surely virtue makes us good.

And if we are good, we are benefited, for And if we are good, we are benefited, for all that is good all that is good benefits. Is that not so?benefits. Is that not so?

So virtue is something beneficial?So virtue is something beneficial?

Let us then examine what kinds of thing Let us then examine what kinds of thing benefit us, taking benefit us, taking them up one by them up one by one: health, we say, and strength, one: health, we say, and strength, and and beauty, and also wealth. We say that these beauty, and also wealth. We say that these

things, and others of the same kind, benefit things, and others of the same kind, benefit us, do us, do we not?we not?

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledge Yet we say that these same things also Yet we say that these same things also

sometimes harm sometimes harm one. Do you agree or not?one. Do you agree or not?

Let us now look at the qualities of the Let us now look at the qualities of the soul. There is soul. There is something you call something you call moderation, and justice, courage, moderation, and justice, courage, intelligence, memory, munificence, and all such intelligence, memory, munificence, and all such

things.things.

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledge Consider whichever of these you believe Consider whichever of these you believe

not to be not to be knowledge but different knowledge but different from it; do they not at from it; do they not at times harm us, at times harm us, at other times benefit us? Courage, other times benefit us? Courage, for for example, when it is not wisdom but like a kind example, when it is not wisdom but like a kind

of recklessness: when a man is reckless of recklessness: when a man is reckless without without understanding he is harmed, understanding he is harmed, when with when with understanding he is understanding he is benefited.benefited.

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledgeThe same is true of moderation and mental The same is true of moderation and mental

quickness; when quickness; when they are learned and they are learned and disciplined with understanding disciplined with understanding they are they are beneficial, but without understanding beneficial, but without understanding they they

are harmful.are harmful.

Therefore, in a word, all that the soul Therefore, in a word, all that the soul undertakes and undertakes and endures, if directed endures, if directed by by wisdom, ends in happiness, wisdom, ends in happiness, but if but if directed by ignorance, it ends in the opposite.directed by ignorance, it ends in the opposite.

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledgeIf then virtue is something in the soul and If then virtue is something in the soul and

it must be it must be beneficial, it must be beneficial, it must be knowledge, since all the knowledge, since all the qualities of the qualities of the soul are in themselves neither soul are in themselves neither

beneficial nor harmful, but beneficial nor harmful, but accompanied by wisdom accompanied by wisdom or folly they or folly they become beneficial or harmful. This become beneficial or harmful. This argument shows that virtue, being beneficial, argument shows that virtue, being beneficial, must must be a kind of wisdom. (be a kind of wisdom. (MenoMeno, 87c-88d), 87c-88d)

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledge To have virtue, is to know how to live To have virtue, is to know how to live

well.well. Virtue knowledge isn’t theoretical Virtue knowledge isn’t theoretical

knowledge of what is right. knowledge of what is right. Virtue knowledge is knowledge of Virtue knowledge is knowledge of howhow it is it is

to our benefit to do the right thing.to our benefit to do the right thing.

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledgeVirtue is knowledge We always act for our own benefit.We always act for our own benefit.

S:S: Do you not think, my good man, Do you not think, my good man, that all men desire that all men desire good things?good things?

M:M: I do not.I do not.

S:S: But some desire bad things?But some desire bad things?

M:M: Yes.Yes.

DoctrineDoctrine


S:S: Do you mean that they Do you mean that they believe the bad things to be believe the bad things to be good, or that good, or that they know they are bad and they know they are bad and nevertheless nevertheless desire them?desire them?

M:M: I think there are both kinds.I think there are both kinds.

S:S: Do you think, Meno, that Do you think, Meno, that anyone, knowing that bad anyone, knowing that bad things are things are bad, nevertheless desire them?bad, nevertheless desire them?

M:M: I certainly do…..I certainly do…..

DoctrineDoctrine


S:S: Well then, those who you say desire Well then, those who you say desire bad things, bad things, believing that bad things believing that bad things harm their possessor, know harm their possessor, know that they will that they will be harmed by them?be harmed by them?

M:M: Necessarily.Necessarily.

DoctrineDoctrine


S:S: And do they not think that those who And do they not think that those who are harmed are harmed are miserable to the are miserable to the extent that they are harmed?extent that they are harmed?

M:M: That too is inevitable.That too is inevitable.

S:S: And that those who are miserable are And that those who are miserable are unhappy?unhappy?

M:M: I think so.I think so.

DoctrineDoctrine


S:S: Does anyone wish to be miserable and Does anyone wish to be miserable and unhappy?unhappy?

M:M: I do not think so, Socrates.I do not think so, Socrates.

S:S: No one then wants what is bad, Meno, No one then wants what is bad, Meno, unless he unless he wants to be such. For what else is wants to be such. For what else is being miserable being miserable but to desire bad things and but to desire bad things and secure them?secure them?

M:M: You are probably right, Socrates, and no You are probably right, Socrates, and no one wants one wants what is bad. what is bad.

((Meno Meno 77b-78b)77b-78b)

DoctrineDoctrine

Virtue is knowledge and knowledge Virtue is knowledge and knowledge is virtueis virtue To have virtue, is to know how to live To have virtue, is to know how to live

well.well. We always act for our own benefit.We always act for our own benefit.

DoctrineDoctrine

No-one knowingly does wrongNo-one knowingly does wrong

““Well gentlemen,” I said, “what about this? Well gentlemen,” I said, “what about this? Aren’t all actions praiseworthy which lead to a Aren’t all actions praiseworthy which lead to a painless and pleasant life? And isn’t praiseworthy painless and pleasant life? And isn’t praiseworthy activity good and beneficial?”activity good and beneficial?”

They agreed.They agreed.

DoctrineDoctrine


““So if what is pleasant is good,” I said, “no one who So if what is pleasant is good,” I said, “no one who either knows or believes that something else is better either knows or believes that something else is better than what he is doing, and is in his power to do, than what he is doing, and is in his power to do, subsequently does the other, when he can do what is subsequently does the other, when he can do what is better. Nor is giving in to oneself anything other than better. Nor is giving in to oneself anything other than error, nor controlling oneself anything other than error, nor controlling oneself anything other than wisdom.” They all agreed.wisdom.” They all agreed.

““Well now. Is this what you mean by error, having false Well now. Is this what you mean by error, having false opinions and being mistaken about matters of opinions and being mistaken about matters of importance?”importance?”

They all agreed to that as well.They all agreed to that as well.

DoctrineDoctrine


Now surely,” I said, “no one freely goes for bad Now surely,” I said, “no one freely goes for bad things or things he believes to be bad; it’s not, it things or things he believes to be bad; it’s not, it seems to me, in human nature to be prepared to seems to me, in human nature to be prepared to go for what you think to be bad in preference to go for what you think to be bad in preference to what is good. And when you are forced to choose what is good. And when you are forced to choose one of two evils, nobody will choose the greater one of two evils, nobody will choose the greater when he can have the lesser. Isn’t that so?” when he can have the lesser. Isn’t that so?”

((ProtagorasProtagoras, 358d4), 358d4)

DoctrineDoctrine

A just person can suffer no harmA just person can suffer no harm A good person is a virtuous personA good person is a virtuous person Virtue is a kind of excellenceVirtue is a kind of excellence A good life is an excellent lifeA good life is an excellent life Harm is a diminution of this excellenceHarm is a diminution of this excellence A good person will not suffer this A good person will not suffer this

diminution diminution A good person cannot be harmedA good person cannot be harmed

socrates on evil and ignorance

Documents

cultural relativism

early dialogues

king of persia

crito methodsophists

socrates viewseuthyphro

socratic problemassume

importance of law

worse case