table of contents · dedication to the seven featured leaders — jordan adler, margie aliprandi,...

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Also by Michael Hutchison / 3

Dedication / 5

Acknowledgments / 7

Special Note from Michael “Hutch” / 9

Chapter #1 Jordan Adler / 11

Chapter #2 Margie Aliprandi / 35

Chapter #3 Stephanie Davis / 67

Chapter #4 John Hoffman / 93

Chapter #5 Donna Johnson / 125

Chapter #6 John McLelland / 155

Chapter #7 Susan Sly / 187

Conclusion / 215

Bonus Interview: Meet the Author / 219

Disclaimer & Copyright Page / 227

PROFILES IN PERSISTENCE7 Network Marketing Leaders Share their Strategies for a Financially Successful Life & Legacy | MICHAEL HUTCHISON 1

Also by Michael Hutchison

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Dedication

To the seven featured leaders — Jordan Adler, MargieAliprandi, Stephanie Davis, John Hoffman, Donna Johnson,John McLelland, Susan Sly — and to other leaders like themwho are inspiring millions to follow their heart and dreams tocontribute their gifts to the world, I dedicate this book.

For anyone who’s been told, “It can’t be done,” this book is for you.

Michael “Hutch” donates a portion of book proceeds to hischarity of choice Days for Girls International in order toIMPROVE LIFE FOR GIRLS AND WOMEN.

Days for Girls International empowers girls, women andcommunities in 61 nations on six continents, reversing the cycleof poverty in a simple, direct, effective and surprising way: Wehelp women have access to sustainable feminine hygiene. Oneof the major causes of disempowerment of girls in poverty is theirmonthly cycle. Many girls cannot afford feminine hygieneproducts and as a result cannot attend school. A girl absent fromschool due to menstruation for 4 days of every 28 day cycle loses13 learning days, the equivalent of two weeks of learning everyschool term. Studies show that every year of schooling increasinga girl's future earning power by 10 to 20 percent, allowing herto break the cycle of poverty. There are millions of girls andwomen worldwide who suffer days of isolation, infection, andexploitation due to this single issue-- it will take all of us to reachall of them. http://www.daysforgirls.org/


6

Days for Girls International

Every Girl.

Everywhere. Period.

Acknowledgments – I appreciate you!

I am grateful to continue to develop the talents and abilities tohelp so many people. Without the significant contributions madeby the following people, this Profiles In Persistence book serieswould not exist:

Andy Hausmann summarized each interview and highlightedkey take aways for the reader.

Celeste Mergens, Leah Spelman and Cathy Warner Habing withDays for Girls are living saints. The primary reason I’m doingthis book series is to support Days for Girls. I have a daughterand their mission tugged at my heartstrings. When young girlsand young women in mostly less developed nations do not havefeminine hygiene products, they aren’t allowed to go to school orwork. By not going to school they get behind. Days for Girlsprovidesa practical solution: they contribute feminine hygieneproducts to girls. http://www.daysforgirls.org/

Thank you, Tavi Bruce [email protected] for designing thebook layout. Thank you for making us both look good!

Sonia Stringer http://www.savvynetworkmarketingwomen.comfor believing in this project and making a measurable differencefor others.

Special thanks to Tanisha Coffey http://www.OPEN-TheMovie.com/#!bio-t who brilliantlyedited this manuscript.

I am also fortunate and deeply grateful for my fiancée HeatherBuoniconti. Heather continues to put up with me and mypropensity to become obsessed with projects such as this bookseries. Not only is she my most helpful critic, she is also mydeepest and most enduring support.


Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent willnot; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with

talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.Education will not; the world is full of educated failures.

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

~ Calvin Coolidge

We are all failures — at least the best of us.

~ J.M. Barrie

Acknowledgments – I appreciate you!8

Special Note From Michael “Hutch”

Dear Reader,

I am honored that you’re investing the time to read Profiles InPersistence: 7 Network Marketing Leaders Share their Strategiesfor a Financially Successful Life and Legacy. I personally soughtout these top leaders and conducted these interviews to remindeveryone that we are not held captive to our own circumstancesand we can become the creative forces of our lives, capable ofachieving the extraordinary heights that God intended for us.

My criteria for being featured? I looked for leaders who:• Overcame tremendous odds in either their personal

and/or professional life• Could tell their story(ies) of persistence and tenacity• Have created financial success and are seven and eight

figure income earners• Are givers and contributors to others• Are willing to promote the book to help my charity of

choice: Days for Girls International. http://www.daysforgirls.org/

What’s cool about these leaders? They are committed toimproving the network marketing profession and themselves.They dared to be vulnerable and share their strategies, even withtheir competitors so that you might take you and your family tothe next level. I assume you picked up this book because you areseeking encouragement to seize life’s challenges and, moreimportantly, to follow and achieve your dreams. I know thatwhoever you are, whatever success you’ve already achieved,whatever challenges you are currently experiencing, this book willmake an inspiring and positive impact on your life!


How do I know? This book contains no theory. These leaders aregenerously sharing their real-world experiences, practical wisdomand timeless truths. More importantly, it works! This book laysout exactly what the top leaders did when they started theirbusiness and the mistakes they made. Studying and duplicatingthese leaders’ behavior will set you and your teams up for success.

Hopefully, these interviews will fire you up and give you arenewed outlook on life and business. Read and apply this bookand make your own life a chapter that everyone will want toread.Thank you for allowing me to share these candidconversations with you. I look forward to meeting you personallyone day soon. Continued blessings!

Make things happen!

Michael “Hutch”http://www.ProfileInPersistence.com

Special Note From Michael “Hutch” 10

Chapter #1 Jordan Adler

To overcome fear, expand your dreams. Make your dreams so important and so rich that

nothing will stop you from having them.

~ Jordan Adler

Eagle DistributorSend Out Cards

www.beachmoney.com

Hutch: My guest Jordan Adler has created a seven-figure income in his current network marketing enterprise SendOut Cards. He has inspired and sponsored thousands of peopleto achieve remarkable success through network marketing. He isthe author of the bestselling book Beach Money.http://www.beachmoney.com/ He is a giver. Welcome Jordan.I am honored to be with you.

Jordan: Thank you, Michael.

Hutch: I am grateful that Sonia Stringer brought ustogether. She shared part of your background and I was excitedto meet you in Las Vegas. I know you have come from humblebeginnings. Tell us your story about your upbringing. What was


is like to be Jordan Adler growing up?

Jordan: You bet, and thank you. Actually, I do want to make onesmall correction to the introduction; you shared that I havesponsored thousands of people. I haven’t sponsored thousands ofpeople; I have sponsored an average of two to three distributorsper month since I’ve been involved in the profession. It comesout to a few hundred. I do have tens of thousands in myorganization as result of those few that I brought in. I want tomake sure that people know that this isn’t a business where youhave to sponsor thousands of people to be successful, because it’snot.

Hutch: Understood. That’s an important distinction.Thanks for clearing that up.

Jordan: As background, I grew up in the south suburbs ofChicago. My father raised a family of five on an income that wasless than $30,000 a year. We would take vacation every year; atwo-week driving vacation. He would save the whole year for usto take that vacation. I was taught as a child, from the time I wasas young as five years old, the importance of going to college andgetting a degree. He saved his entire life for me and my twosisters to go to college for one year. We were required to graduate,but we had to figure out how to come up with the money to payfor the remaining three years if we were going to get a four-yeardegree. I worked little odd jobs in high school; I sold dogs atPuppy Palace and I worked at the Marshall Field’s in inventory.

I wanted to go out of state for college but didn’t have the moneyto do that. So, I went to the University of Illinois. I didn’t have aclue what I wanted to do for a living. I chose landscapearchitecture because I met a guy that was a “cool dude” whoinvited me to his studio. There were a lot of pretty girls around

Chapter #1 Jordan Adler12

playing Frisbee in the courtyard and that’s how I chose myprofession.

I got my college degree then moved — with a guitar, suitcase and$250 — to Arizona. I had a friend there, an ex-girlfriend thathad a little apartment. Plus, there was a lot of building going onin the early ‘80s. So, I went out to Arizona to practice landscapearchitecture. I got a job renting roller skates and a job at the gymand then eventually, a job drafting. All during this time, I had thespark of wanting to be an entrepreneur. I don’t know where itcame from.

I remember, at a garage sale in Chicago when I was home fromcollege one year, I saw a book called The Ten MarketPresentations by Don Failla. Today, it’s called The 45 SecondPresentation; the book is still around, same book.http://www.45second.com/http://donandnancy.iownmylife.net/

I bought that book for a quarter at a garage sale. It inspired mein the sense that I was introduced to the ideas of leverage, gettingpaid off the work of other people and earning residual income.For the next 10 years, I signed up in 11 different networkmarketing companies and never signed up a single person. I wentto seminars. I used credit cards to buy products and go to training,but for 10 years with 11 different companies, I never signed up asingle distributor. I never made a penny. I am giving you theabbreviated version of all this but that gives us a place to start.

Hutch: So, it sounds like you really didn’t have many,if any, entrepreneurial models growing up. Other than this bookThe 45 Second Presentation, who were your mentors? Who aresome of your coaches and what is it that you saw in them?


Jordan: Actually, back then — probably for ten years — I reallydidn’t have a coach or mentor. I read personal development books.Those came as a result of recommendations, teachings from thetrainings that I was going to, or somebody saying, “You got topick up the book Think and Grow Rich.” http://www.naphill.org/

The classics are the ones that I read. I read The Magic of ThinkingBig by David Schwartz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_of_Thinking_Big

Also, Mark Yarnell’s book: Your First Year in NetworkMarketing.

http://www.amazon.com/Your-First-Year-Network-Marketing/dp/0761512195

There were many books in the early days that I read that inspiredme and got me along the track of aligning myself with residualincome and passive income versus trading time for money. So, Ilooked at a lot of things in that realm but network marketing wasthe most interesting to me because I didn’t have any money.

Hutch: What was the defining reason for becomingan entrepreneur and part of the network marketing profession?

Jordan: Well, the reason I chose network marketing was becauseit’s the perfect profession for someone with little to no money,and someone who has the time and the hunger. Because mosttraditional businesses cost, on the low end, $20,000 to $200,000on the high end to start, I didn’t have the borrowing power. Ididn’t have the confidence. Network marketing taught me theskills and helped me build the confidence that I needed to besuccessful. I didn’t see anything out there better for leveragingtime and being able to create income stream that ultimately, in aperiod of months or years, would pay me whether I went to work


or not and I liked that whole concept. So that’s really what keptme motivated, kept me focused.

Although, if you look at my track record, I wasn’t really focused;I mean, I would get involved in a company and I would invite acouple of other people to take a look at what I was doing andthen they would shut me down. They were negative. They wouldtell me it was a stupid idea or that it was a pyramid or that onlythe people at the top are making money or that the company issaturated. I heard it all. Two or three comments like that wouldshut me down and then I would quit. I did that over and overand over again for 10 years in 11 companies. Then, in 1992, Ijoined my 12th company. They say that when opportunity andpreparation collide, things start to happen. I had been preparingfor years.

People ask me all the time, “What caused you to stick with it?”Most people have one failure and they quit; they never go backand they use it as a reason not to go back. I kept bouncing backand, quite frankly Hutch, I don’t know why. I know that I wouldsee something that got me excited and I would chase it. Forwhatever reason, I kept going back, kept going to the trainingprograms, kept reading books, kept listening to cassette tapes,everyday, and believing in the dream. I never lost sight of thedream of having a large, passive, residual income and the lifestylefreedom that you can’t possibly get at a job.

So, as I was saying, in 1992, I joined my 12th company and Ifinally figured out how to sponsor a distributor and I startedsponsoring about one distributor a month. I did that for 13 years.My team grew to 85,000 people and I made $8 million in my12th network marketing company.

Hutch: Jordan, I remember reading that, even


growing up, you were driven. I remember reading that one dayyou wrote, “I’m going to prove that I am worth being on theteam.”

Jordan: Yes.

Hutch: Is there a greater purpose inside Jordan Adler?What drives you and how would you describe it?

Jordan: Well, I’ve heard it said that when you are somewherebetween the ages of five and eight years old, something happensto you. That “something” happens to everyone and whatever it is,you make a decision; you make a choice and it’s unconscious; yousay something about yourself and that drives you for the rest ofyour life. It runs so deep that you can’t really change that pattern.It’s something that is so engraved. It’s deep in your soul and ithappens when you are young and it’s usually a result of somethingthat happened. It’s an emotional experience where you are movedto a point of declaring something for your life.

I remember what my “something” was. I was seven years old. Youknow how they always pick teams where there are two teamcaptains and then one team captain picks this kid and the nextteam captain picks this one and they go back and forth, back andforth, back and forth? Every single time, I would be the last kid,as if I wasn’t good at sports. I was always the one that got pickedlast for the teams. I can remember feeling deeply, deeply hurt andangry about that. I asked myself “Why?” When I was 19 - 21years old I started to define the focus of that experience. Idecided,“I’m going to be the one building the teams and I’mgoing to let everyone be on my team.”


Hutch: That’s cool.

Jordan: Yes.

Hutch: That’s very cool.

Jordan: That did not happen when I was seven or eight.

Hutch: I don’t think it’s yours or my nature to dwellon the negative but what were some of the other obstacles thatyou had to overcome as it relates to the 11 companies?

Jordan: Well, a couple of the companies went away; they wentout of business. One of them was a nutritional company and oneof the guys who founded the company died and I was with thecompany at the time they shut everything down. There wasanother company that offered discount travel that shut down andI had never done anything. I mean, I got started, went to a coupleof meetings and then within a couple of months that companyshut down. There are hundreds and hundreds of companies thatstart every year and there are hundreds and hundreds ofcompanies that shut down and I happened to be in a couple ofthose. That was two out of the eleven companies.

And then there was one really crazy experience. I signed up for a3D camera company. I didn’t have the money but I bought a $295camera and a $100 distributor fee to get started with thiscompany. I needed to get trained and I showed up at this guy’sdoor and the guy looked like Mick Jagger. He came to the doorcompletely naked, head to toe. I remember standing on the


doorstep thinking to myself, “This business is not for me!” I leftand I never went back to that company again.

I was also involved in Amway. There was nothing wrong withthat company. It’s a great company. They do a billion dollars amonth in revenue — I actually joined that company twice over anumber of years — but I was running all over the place, nevermade any money and I got tired of it. On top of that, there wasone point where my car broke down. It was an old Mustang andI didn't have the money to fix it. I tried to fix it myself and I blewsomething up by putting the alternator in backwards and the carwas sitting on the street for two years and I took the bus to work.That was challenging. Back then, it wasn't like it is today; wedidn't have computers and cell phones; you weren’t wired in andso you had to go and meet with people. It was very challengingto build a business with no car!

I’m explaining a lot of outside circumstances that I used asexcuses why I shouldn't be with a business. And really, the thingthat was a major turning point for me was when I started to take100% responsibility for my mindset and my focus and notblaming it on some set of circumstances. Over the years, Iwatched people who had circumstances way worse than mineachieve great success in the business. Quitting is the worststrategy to success.

Hutch: You quit those first 11 companies for a varietyof reasons, but now you have built up a successful team andobviously you have experienced people that have quit your team.In general, what's been your experience? Is the grass greener forthem on the other side? Do those that quit and go to anotheropportunity typically do better or not?

Jordan: No. In fact, in almost cases, they don't do better because


wherever they go they go with them. I began to realize that if Iran into an obstacle, it meant there was some lesson that I neededto learn. If I went somewhere else, I was still going to need tolearn that lesson.

Most people view network marketing as some kind of lottery.They ask the wrong questions like, “What's the history of thecompany?” “Has it had growth in the past?” “Who is makingmoney?” In actuality, the growth of the company and success ofthe company is caused by the activity of the distributors partially.

In other words, I can join a small company and become thereason why that company grows versus me needing to knowabout history and past success. When I joined my currentcompany, which I have been with now for nine years, the topearner would fluctuate between $4,000 and $10,000 a month.There are a lot of people out there that wouldn't join a companyunless there is a whole bunch of $100,000 a month earnersalready. I don't view it that way; I view it like I’m going to be theone to create the growth that is going to result in the $100,000month earners.

Hutch: Got it. Very cool mindset.

Jordan: It's a different way of looking at it and it doesn'trepresent the masses by any means.

Hutch: Sure. Since that 12th company, how many“No’s” have you had over your career Jordan?

Jordan: Well, I mean, obviously thousands.


Hutch: How do you teach your people what to saywhen their prospects say, “No” to them?

Jordan: It’s a mindset. It’s not so much what to say as much as itis a mindset. It’s an attitude. It’s a posture. It’s all about reframingand it's all about the way you look at things. I read a book onetime called You2 by Price Pritchett. It's a phenomenal little book.Have you heard of it?

Hutch: I certainly know the name Price Pritchett. http://www.pritchettnet.com/

Jordan: Yeah, author of You2. The first page of the book talksabout a fly trapped inside a milk processing plant...

Hutch: Oh, I have read it. It's a small red book?

Jordan: Yes. So this fly is trying to escape but it flies into thewindow and dies right there on the window. The thing is, thereis a wide open door 10 feet away. All the fly had to do was refocusand fly in another direction and it could have effortlessly flownto freedom. The moral: One direction leads to death; the otherdirection leads to freedom; it all has to do with what you’refocusing on.

So, when you get a “No,” the question is: Are you going to keepquitting or letting that get you down? Are you going to changeyour beliefs because a handful of people don't see it the way yousee it? Or, are you going to stay true to your beliefs and refocuson things that will produce the results that you are looking for?


In every company, there are people that are successful and thereare people that are not successful. The only difference is reallywhat those people are focusing on. It's really not so much on whatyou say when you get that response. My goal is not to convincesomebody. My goal is not to turn them from a “No” to a “Yes.”My goal is to find somebody who leans towards me.

If somebody has questions, we will answer their questions. If theyare skeptical or they need more information to help them becomemore confident in the decision that they are making, I answertheir concerns. But if they are trying to “blow holes in the drain,”I teach my distributors to get as far away from them as possibleas quickly as possible.

Hutch: Jordan, knowing you’re an avid reader, one ofmy favorite books by James Allen, As a Man Thinketh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinkethtells us that when we conquer doubt and fear, we conquer failure.What are the biggest things you do to help you conquer doubtand fear?

Jordan: It's funny. Back in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, I was upon Mingus Mountain with some friends camping. We walkedabout a mile up to the top of the mountain and there were 30 to50 beautiful, colorful hang gliders set up in the forest. One at atime, they’d step up to the launch and the wind would lift themup off the mountain. I’d look up and there were 30 hang gliderscoloring the sky right above us over the mountain. I watchedthem soar out there and thought, “That’s like true freedom thereand I want to do that.”

I didn’t have the $5,000 to become a hang glider pilot at thatpoint to go get lessons. So, I saved up for the next six months and


I took lessons. It’s a very painful, grueling process to learn to flya hang glider. If you don’t do it tandem, you learn from theground up. It takes a long time and it’s not comfortable. I meantto fly and I ultimately ended up flying for seven years. One lesson it taught me is: If you step off the mountain with anyamount of doubt or hesitation, you’ll crash and die, literally. Themoment you decide to launch, you have to launch withconviction.

Hutch: What's the reason why people don't achievetheir major goals and dreams?

Jordan: There are a couple of reasons. One reason is that theirfears are bigger than their dreams. Really. It’s a constantalignment of minimizing your fears as best as you can. We allhave fears and they are always going to be there. To overcomethat, expand your dreams. Make your dreams so important andso rich that nothing will stop you from having them. That’s it.

Another is belief to a level of knowing. When one’s belief in hiscompany or his profession or in himself is waning, there is noway heor she will ever make it.

Think about this: Back in the early 1900s, say 1903, if you asked1,000 people whether it is possible to fly, two mayhave said it waspossible and they would have been considered crazy — probablybe thrown in the asylum. The other 998 would have said, “No. It'snot possible to fly. That's ridiculous. It's stupid. You can't fly.”

Put yourself in a world where no one has ever gotten on anairplane. No one has ever done it. These two guys, Orville andWilbur Wright, with no evidence, decided it was possible; andthey didn't believe it was possible, they knew it was possible. Theyknew it was possible, so much, they risked worldwide ridicule and


they risked death. If you have ever seen the films you know thatthey risked their lives every time they got into one of their littlecrafts.

Well, today, if you asked a 1,000 people, “Is it possible to fly?”most of them would say, “Yeah.” If there were two people whosaid it wasn't possible, they would be considered crazy. We don'tthink anything of it when we step onto a plane. Because of thesetwo guys and their dream, we have the opportunity to beanywhere in a matter of hours and we don't even question it.

Let’s talk about making money for a minute. In the United Statesthere has been over 8 million people that make over $100,000 amonth. Yet, if you ask a 1,000 people today whether it possibleto make $100,000 a month, the majority of them, somewherearound 900+ will tell you it's not possible to make $100,000 amonth. This, in a society where 8 million people have alreadydone it!

Now, you go and ask those few that believe it is possible to make$100,000 a month, you might have five that say it's possible forthem to make $100,000 a month. Five. The reason: Unless youbelieve it's possible, you are not willing to risk anything and youare not willing to do the work. Like Orville and Wilbur, thereason they got the plane to work is because they didn't think itwas possible, they knew it was possible.

At some point when I was fairly young, in my 20's, I knew thatit was possible for me to do it and so I kept going until I was ableto manifest the result that I was looking for. Because I knew itwas possible, I never lost sight of the belief; I never lost sight ofthat dream. I knew what I wanted. I was really clear on what Iwanted. I wanted a lifestyle that was not controlled by having toget up every day and go to a job.


Hutch: If you had to start your adult life all over again,what would you not do again?

Jordan: Honestly, Hutch, I wouldn't be where I am today if Ihadn't gone through those experiences. All the stories that I getto tell help people in their journey. I wouldn't have the stories ifhadn't gone through them. Honestly I wouldn't do it differently.I really wouldn't. For every challenge that I have, there is a storyand a lesson there that I can pass on to someone else to help makeit a little easier for them.

Hutch: How have mobile and / or social networksaffected your business?

Jordan: They represent opportunities as well as challenges.Anopportunity is that I can work anywhere. A network marketertoday can work from literally anywhere in the world. I havefriends that will travel to Singapore or to Thailand or to Berlinand they bring their laptop and pretty much anywhere in theworld today you can get WiFi. I even had a guy that met his wifein the jungles down in South America and while he was downthere he was building the business with us. I didn't know theyhad WiFi in the jungles but in some of these little villages theydo.

So you can be anywhere and work your business. That’s a bigthing. You are completely connected. I remember listening to anaudiotape one time that said a payphone is your office. Iremember feeling the freedom knowing there are payphones allover the place that I can jump on any payphone and that was myoffice. Before the cell phones were around, I thought that waspretty cool. But it’s really fun to be able to be on the beach or go


up to the mountains and do a little work when there andsometimes, you can even write it up as a business expense. That'sa huge positive.

As far as social media, I heard Gary Vaynerchuk speak. http://www.garyvaynerchuk.com/

He wrote a book called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. He said socialmedia is like crack; Facebook specifically is like crack and it reallyis for adults. It sucks people in and they get hooked and theyspend hours a day on it and it's very distracting. Although it doesallow you to connect with people and you do know what's goingon, I believe you have to take it offline if you want your businessto grow. You might connect with someone online but ultimatelyyou have got to get on the phone with them or meet with them.I see people that spend hours and hours online and they have noproductivity.

Advertising your business on Facebook or on Twitter doesabsolutely no good at all. You don't do the business that way. Inthe years it has been around, I have never seen anyone build asuccessful business with social media. So the way I use it is tocelebrate my life. For the most part, I keep business off of there.However, if I’m at an event and I'm with a bunch of friends, Iwill take pictures and post those pictures on Facebook. People inmy life know what’s going on in my life but I don’t advertise onit. So the way I do use Facebook, Hutch, is I meet people on thereand I make connections. If there is somebody I feel I want tomeet, I will private message them, exchange phone numbers andtalk on the phone.

Hutch: What aspects of the business, specifically inthe network marketing profession, do you see evolving and why?


Jordan: Network marketing is in transition right now becausewe didn't have Internet marketers in the past. We didn't have thetechnology. We didn't have the ability to cross-pollinate the waywe do today. We have to become better as a company, as anindividual networker. You need to become better more so nowthan ever before because everybody out there is exposed toeveryone else. In the past, you could pretty much put your armsaround your group and protect them from negative influences.

Hutch: Right.

Jordan: But you can't do that today.

Hutch: Okay.

Jordan: A thread starts on Facebook and if there is somethinggoing on with your company everyone in the world knows aboutit. People that operate with integrity will tend to do better andpeople that operate out of integrity will have that splattered allover social media. It affects their business and their growth.Today, if there is a lawsuit, everyone knows about it and thataffects your growth. If a big leader has left the company, that's allover Facebook and that affects your growth. The problem is,nobody knows (a) the long-term impact of it on our professionand (b) how to deal with it. “How do we handle a negativedistributor that leaves and starts posting stuff all over Facebookand sucking everybody into the conversation?” It's a conversationthat's in the boardrooms of all the network marketing companiesevery day.


Hutch: So what are you most looking forward to inthe future?

Jordan: You are treating me like I'm some kind of visionaryHutch.

Hutch: You are Jordan!

Jordan: I don't know about that. I do my business every day. Isponsor distributors and help them get started. I don't know if Ican see the future. Honestly, I want to be real up front. I don'treally have a handle on where the profession is going. Here is thething: The lines are blurring between Internet marketing andnetwork marketing. Technology is becoming more and moreimportant in communication, in connecting, in relationships.

One of the conversations that I have with other leaders is: “Arewe lying to ourselves believing that the face-to-face, belly-to-belly model is here to stay forever?” What we say to people allthe time is that no matter how much technology is out there, wealways have need for human connection. But, if you read Gary'sbook, he starts to wonder [because] the generation of kids that aregrowing up today, the way they connect is through screens, notface-to-face. It makes you wonder: When they are in their 20sand 30s, will they grasp it really? We don't know. It might be aworld where the way we communicate is through technology andelectronics and that's the way they connect. If you watch a nineyear old at the table with their Nokia or their iPad or whatever,their experience of the world is different than ours.


Hutch: Let's take a peek though, in the future, as itrelates to your legacy and how you'd like to be remembered.What would be your legacy and how would you like to beremembered?

Jordan: To distill it down, it's like giving people permission todream and then helping them to see what is possible for them.When you read Beach Money, what you walk away with is “I cando this.” And I believe that is probably the number one thing thatkeeps people from succeeding; they don't believe that they cando it. So, when they read Beach Money and they read the storiesand they start to see [and think]“You know what? I can do this.As long as I stay the course and stay focused on my dream, I cando it. ” So I help people to dream then I give them the belief thatthey can do it.

Hutch: What would you advise for a brand newperson getting started?

Jordan: If they've never had success in the business then I highlyrecommend either reading or listening to MP3s from people thathave done it every day; then work towards getting around peoplethat are successful in the business. In the beginning, that mightmean listening in on conference calls or sitting in the crowd orat an event.

One of the things that I did early on was sitting in the front rowwhen I went to events. I recommend that. Then, if you’ve gotguests there, which I recommend you do, bring those guests overto the speaker and treat the speaker as if they are your long lostfriend and introduce your guests to the speaker. In that way, thespeaker and leaders get to know you, you get to know the leaders,


you feel more connected and then your people feel inspiredbecause they got a chance to meet somebody who is actuallymaking things happen. I teach people to “plug in”. Plug in to thefocus, the knowledge, the information and the people. The closeryou can get to the fire, the more likely you will make it in thebusiness.

Hutch: You are a helicopter pilot, a hang glider. Noteverybody is out taking helicopter lessons to develop mentaltoughness! What do you do to help your leaders or your associatesdevelop that?

Jordan: It's funny because there are people out there that theirmotive or their quest is to teach their leaders to develop mentaltoughness and their results are no better in terms of the growthof their organization and how many people actually succeed.When people are ready, they seek, they get the mindset, theinformation and the knowledge that they need to survive thisbusiness. So honestly, I don't teach my reps mental toughness.Maybe I should. I don't know. I don't teach it. I really kind ofseek out the people that are ready. That hasn't been a focus ofmine, teaching mental toughness.

Hutch: Let's talk about some business buildingstrategies. What are the biggest time management mistakes madeby those working at home? How do you organize and structureyour day? One of the things I appreciated about getting on thiscall with you was you were very clear about scheduling, blocking,committing and following through. Let's talk about that. Whatare some of the biggest mistakes that you've made and what doyou see others committing?


Jordan: I did something that is very difficult for most people andI did it because I was serious about my success in this business.In late 80's, I unplugged my television set and put it in the closetand I did not have a TV in my home for 25 years. I freed up formyself three to four hours a day when I unplugged my TV andthat was the time that I used to build my business. I have sincebought a couple of flat screens but I rarely turn them on. I'm notin the habit of watching TV.

The way I schedule myself is I have a calendar. I use iCal. I alsohave written lists because I found it's easier to manage and it'sless invisible when I have it on my desk or I have it with me. So,I have a green book and a black book. My black book is my listbook and my green book is my money book. I call it a list bookand a money book.

The black book has every person that I meet. If I get somebody'sbusiness card at a networking event or if somebody is parking mycar and I strike up a conversation, I have him write hisinformation. I put that in my list book and everyone goes there.And then I use that — I get their name, their phone number,couple of notes about them, an email address — and I put thatin there and then I number every person on that page. Then as Ishow people the business, if they are interested but they don'tsign up, if they are a qualified prospect — in other words if theygot some level of energy about the business, that's positive — Iput them into the green book, that's my money book.That's themost valuable book I have. In my money book, when I startmaking follow-up calls or sending things out, the likelihood thatsomeone over time is going to become a distributor or a customerfrom that book is very high.

Everything is managed on my calendar. If I'm going away forthree or four days, I have that blocked so that my business doesn'tencroach on my personal time. I have to because when you've gota large organization, your emails and phone never stop. Today for


example, I got a call this morning. I'm going to go meet mygirlfriend and her kids for breakfast and then I’ve got aconference call with my company and then I've got a helicopterlesson and then I have another conference call with my companyon Google Hangout. Then I’ve got my networking group tonight;then I'm going to train a couple of distributors after that. So,today is heavily weighted in business although I do have ahelicopter lesson in the middle of it.

Hutch: You are a fabulous communicator. Howimportant is the ability to communicate and what are some ofyour favorite ways to present your business? It sounds to me likeit's more one-on-one. I could be wrong, Jordan.

Jordan: I do a lot of one-on-one. I teach my team to do one-on-one and small meetings. When you have lots of those going onin your organization, a lot of people doing one-on-one and two-on-ones, when you do a small group meeting, you will havepeople to show up. You get a lot of small group meetings goingon then when you have a big meeting, a lot of people will showup. But to go from scratch to a big meeting, very rarely have Iseen somebody do that. What was your question, Hutch?

Hutch: How important is the ability to communicate?

Jordan: Kenny Trout is a billionaire for the past probably 15 yearsnow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_TrouttHe was one of my mentors in the early days. He now owns horsetraining and breeding facilities. His mother used to tell him thatif he wanted to be successful, he needed to learn to speak in frontof groups. I took something from that at the same time through


a book I read called Skill With People by Les Giblin years ago.It’s a simple little booklet that talked about communication andI became keenly aware that if you want to be successful inanything, you have got to learn to deal with people. You have gotto learn to deal with the positive and the negative; and the biggerthe organization, the more patience it takes.

http://www.skillwithpeople.com/

In that regard, that has to do with any business. Whether it'straditional business or network marketing, you are going to dealwith people. The challenges become bigger the larger theorganization gets and so it becomes a personal gain in terms ofbeing able to transform even the more difficult things intosomething that will benefit you versus drag you down.

Hutch: In addition to reading your book, BeachMoney, Jordan, how can our listeners get to know you better? Isthere a Website that you'd like to provide?

Jordan: Right now they can go to www.beachmoney.com. It'sin the process of being redone but it’s up and you can join theblog in there. I have a Beach Money blog and I don't send out alot, but a couple of times a month there is a blog post; they canalso like the Beach Money fan page

https://www.facebook.com/beachmoneyclub

Hutch: Any final parting words of wisdom? Whatadvice would you give to that leader that may be stuck in a rut,trying to get to the next level?

Jordan: Forgive me Hutch. The book is probably not aboutnetwork marketing, is it?


Hutch: All the leaders being featured are networkingleaders.

Jordan: This is a great time to be involved in network marketingbecause there are some major shifts going on in this industry.During the industrial revolution, the big companies were formedand maybe they promised to take care of people if they wouldjoin the big companies. They got their benefits and they couldretire with the company but things have changed, partiallybecause of technology.

Technology has given people a chance to really take control oftheir own lives. We are noticing that for the first time in historytwo things have happened: One is the adults are starting to listento the kids because the kids understand technology. That's neverhappened in our lifetime. In the past, the kids looked to theadults; today, the adults are looking to the kids for that experienceand the knowledge around the technology. That's the first thing.

And the second thing is we see this major shift going on whereemployees know, for the first time since the industrial revolution,actually for the first time ever, that the security is not in the job.There were many, many years, probably somewhere around 20-25 years where people were lying to themselves. They knew thatthe security wasn't in the job long term but today, for the firsttime, everyone really knows and they are beginning to admit thatthe future of business is in free enterprise. That represents a hugeopportunity for network marketers because most people don'thave money to start a traditional business, yet they want to takecontrol of their lives. There is a whole new generation of peoplecoming up that won’t have that whole “pyramid scheme”conversation because they’ve watched their mom and dad makemillions of dollars over the course of their lifetime in networkmarketing. So, there are a lot of changes going on that I think


really the set the stage for a really powerful future for somebodywho chooses this profession.

Hutch: Anything else you would like to add?

Jordan: I'm good. Thank you, Hutch. I appreciate the time andthanks for the opportunity.

Hutch: You are welcome. Thank you Jordan. You arean inspiration to many including me. I know that the words ofthis interview will inspire others and take them and their familiesto new heights. I’m proud of you! Keep up the awesome workand I’ll see you soon.


Chapter #2 Margie Aliprandi

I believe that network marketing is such an incredible answerbecause it puts economic power into people’s hands,

specifically women, and when there is more economic power there is more voice. And I fully believe more women’s voices can

change the world.

~ Margie Aliprandi

Elite Social MarketerModere

www.margiealiprandi.com

Hutch: I'm so lucky that our friends Darlene Nelsonand Sonia Stringer brought us together.

Margie: I know.

Hutch: Celeste Mergens from Days for Girls and Iwere talking about you being the perfect candidate for this bookproject.

Margie: It was so meant to be. This one was not going to bemissed.


Hutch: That's right. I had you surrounded.

Margie: Well, I think it was just destiny.

Hutch: Yes. You’re right. So, let's get into it. I’mhonored to introduce you. I know you as a proud mom of fourgrown children and an author; you are an international speakerand trainer; and you are a true icon in this business, the networkmarketing profession. I remember reading that you started yourcareer as a high school music teacher and were a struggling singlemom. Margie, tell our audience about your story. Tell us aboutyour upbringing, highlighting any peaks and valleys and what itwas like growing up as Margie.

Margie: I was born and raised in Utah. I remember being aninsecure young girl and kind of quiet. When I was very young Iwas clinging a little bit to my mom's knee, not very outgoing andcertainly not gregarious; definitely shy. I think I started comingout of my shell by the ninth or tenth grade.

I became a goal-setter in my early teens — 12, 13, 14 — and Ihad goals in every single area of my life. I was structuring mydays. I was serious about life and, from even a young age, I felt alot of urgency. Maybe I just sensed that time is short and we needto make the most of every moment, make our time count. Thoseideas seemed innate in me. And that was really defining.

I fell in love with the teachings of personal development at ayoung age. My dad owned a real estate brokerage and he wasreally into personal development. I remember the books beingaround the house. You know, Psycho-Cyberneticshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Cybernetics and I’m

Chapter #2 Margie Aliprandi36

Okay, You’re Okayhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_OK,_You're_OKMy dad gave me a reel-to-reel copy of Russell Conwell’s Acres ofDiamonds when I was nine and I remember being profoundlyimpacted as I listened to it over and over again.

I would watch my dad speaking at awards evenings, and howpeople were laughing and being inspired and then achievingmore as a result of those meetings, and I thought: I want to dothat. I was enamored with the idea of having a positive impacton people’s lives and I decided this is what I wanted my world tolook like.

I had those same feelings again in the early days when I went toa Positive Mental Attitude (PMA) rally. I don’t know if youremember those events, but it was a whole group of thoughtleaders. I’m not sure who all spoke at these events, but Iremember seeing ZigZiglar for sure. I felt transported as Ilistened to him and I took pages and pages of notes. And againI thought: That's what I’m going to do some day. So those were someof the early hunches that I would design my life around aplatform where I could speak about personal developmentprinciples and share my experiences and potentially help peoplealong their way.

Looking back, one of the things I particularly appreciate is thatmy parents never gave me any negative money messages. I neverheard the typical “Money doesn't grow on trees” or “There is notenough money for that” or “What? Do you think I’m made ofmoney?” I just thought we were wealthy.

I look at that little home now. The fact is: we were very middleclass. But my parents were developed enough to have anabundance mindset and I never had a scarcity kind of feeling.Plus, they were very supportive. Any experience or opportunitythat I wanted, it was just always, “Yes, for sure yes.” I’d say, “The


school is going to Europe. Can I go?" They’d say, withouthesitation, “Yes.”

So those things I think are extraordinary gifts. I didn’t realize itat the time. I thought everyone had what I had. But as I haveworked with people from various parts of the world, I know theyhave a lot of money messages to undo. That’s one thing I realizedwhen I was sitting in a Bob Proctor seminar http://www.proctorgallagherinstitute.com/about/company-founders/sandra-gallagher. He was having us write all of thenegative money messages and then we would fold them up andwe would burn them all together. I couldn't come up with anynegative money messages that I’d been given and I called myparents and said, “Thank you.” I hadn’t realized how fortunate Iwas in that regard.

Hutch: That's incredible. So, other than your folks,looking back, who have been your mentors?

Margie: Certainly my paternal Nana and Grandpa. They livedjust down the street and played a really big role in my life; also alot of thought leaders like Wallace Wattles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Wattles, Napoleon Hillhttp://www.naphill.org/, Florence Scovel Shinnhttp://www.florence-scovel-shinn.com/ and some of thoseearlier writers on the power of our thoughts. And then, in morerecent times, I’ve really loved Bob Proctor. He had a significantinfluence on my thinking with his "You Were Born Rich"seminars. Wayne Dyer http://www.hayhouse.com/authorbio.php?id=89 and DeepakChopra http://deepakchopra.com played a really big role for awhile. Also Caroline Myss http://www.myss.com/ and ByronKatie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Katie …love theirstuff… and then Jack Canfield http://jackcanfield.com/ and


Denis Waitley http://waitley.com.

Hutch: So, you get all these positive references fromyour folks and certainly the reference of your dad and then allthese wonderful intellectual and spiritual thought leaders. Whenyou put all that together, you said that's what created you. Whatis it about you that makes you unique, Margie? Is there a greaterpurpose driving you, and how would you describe it?

Margie: My ultimate purpose is to positively impact the lives ofevery person I come in contact with, and to do what I can tomake the world a better place. I feel like I've had a tendernesstowards people from a very young age. I just care a lot andempathize with people at a deep level. So I want to give as muchof myself as I can to bring joy and inspiration, even if it’s in somesmall way, like a hug or an encouraging word.

More generally speaking, I’ve always had an inner compass thathas pushed me toward excellence in all areas of my life. On thebusiness side, I love a challenge. And I truly love every aspect ofnetwork marketing from business development to personaldevelopment. The personal development part is so rich becausethe very nature of the business model makes you grow. Justcoming face-to-face with yourself over and over again, feelingthe fear and pushing through, stepping outside of your comfortzone, facing your weaknesses and challenges head on, and thenexpanding rather than shrinking. I love this business model andthe potential it offers to everyone who has a dream. More thanany other business, network marketing can be a catalyst fortransforming lives on every level.

My initial “why” for getting into network marketing was to givemy kids a better life. I wanted them to have an extraordinary lifethat would be expansive, where income would never be an issue,


and where they would have experiences like travel and so forth.And that compelled me through all of the early challenges andobstacles. When I started, my youngest child was two. Nowthey’re 31, 30, 28 and 21. Now they’re raised. I did give themextraordinary lives. I can tick that one off the list. Missionaccomplished!

So what’s next? My next “why” has been clarified over the lastcouple of years. And in the last year or so, it has expanded evenmore as a result of reading Half the Sky.

http://halfthesky.org/en

Shortly after reading it I was in a seminar and we were doingsome vision work. In the prelude our seminar leader had shownsome rare footage of the Berlin wall coming down and I beganthinking about these tipping point moments when aftertremendous violence and hatred and loss and wars and uprisings,there are these tipping points. There is a collective consciousnessso great that it can’t be resisted anymore. The collectiveconsciousness is so strong it finally just says, “No More.” And Ifeel like we are in a time when these issues of human dignity andno more marginalization of people, particularly women, anywhere– it’s bubbling inside of everyone. And if I can just move theneedle a little bit, just a little bit, that’s what will fill this last phaseof my life, and I’ll consider my life well lived.

And so I believe that network marketing is such an incredibleanswer because it puts economic power into people’s hands,specifically women, and when there is more economic powerthere is more voice. And I fully believe more women’s voices canchange the world.

So it feels like such a strong call to me to be a part of empoweringwomen worldwide through our business model and also throughthe personal aspect of them knowing their intrinsic worth andstepping fully into their power and purpose; and having that


supported by the communities around them – the men in theirlives and the children.

When people ask me,“What is your ‘why’ now?” I say it’sthreefold. One, I have unfinished business in North America. I’vehelped create millionaires all over the world, now I want to helpmore in my own backyard. Two, I’ve been waiting a long time forthe stars to align. I really think we’re doing something incrediblyspecial in Modere and I’m not going to miss it. Three, on a largerscale, I believe that if we can get economic power domesticallyand globally into more women’s hands, we can change the world.

Hutch: How did you happen to get into the networkmarketing profession?

Margie: I was at the crossroads in my life, a single mom doingsome acting in television commercials and industrial films. It wasgreat income but it was inconsistent. I knew I must findsomething steady. I had already been teaching Junior HighSchool music so I eventually decided to go back to it, althoughfairly grudgingly. I loved it but I didn’t want to leave my kids athome.

A few weeks before school started, a network marketingopportunity came my way. It was really the product that got me.Because I had grown up in Utah, I was long since familiar withnetwork marketing and I had no interest in the business modelat all. I didn’t like the idea of hitting my friends up to do abusiness. Then I saw this product and thought: Oh my gosh. I cantalk to anybody about this any time, anywhere. I can get behind thisproduct. So I canceled my teaching contract and jumped in withboth feet, never really looking back. Kind of big decision, huh.

I had no money at the time, no previous business experience, and


those three little kids. I’ve heard people use their kids as an excusefor not building a network marketing business. Again, my kidswere why I had to. They were my Why. And I fell in love withthe vision. I could see incredible possibilities. I got excited by thepromise of financial freedom and the idea of helping people makemoney.

Hutch: But with three children though and nobusiness experience, I imagine you experienced tremendousoverwhelm in the beginning.

Margie: Yes.

Hutch: So for someone brand new, who is currentlywhere you were, how did you make it and how did you deal withthose obstacles?

Margie: I think the most important thing I did was to make a“whatever-it-takes” decision about my business, and that I stayedfixated on the goal from the start. Otherwise, if you’re justdipping a toe in the water instead of jumping in with both feet,chances are you’ll attract people who do the same thing.Straddling the fence over any decision is just painful. But I trulythink that a “whatever-it-takes” decision saves you time andenergy and makes everything easier. Because when the obstaclescome — and they will come early and often — you don't have torethink everything. You’ve made a non-negotiable decision.There’s no looking back. You burn the ships; there is no possibilityof retreat. Now everything around you begins to conspire in yourfavor to help you to get what you want. I think that's a hugedifferentiator.


I mean, when I look back on a radio interview where the hostasked how it felt to be sleeping in my car… let me explain. Your“whatever-it-takes” decisions are not always affordable. So you,well, do whatever it takes. In the early days of building mybusiness, if I had people in California asking me to come do ameeting, I’d drive there because I couldn't afford to fly. I parkedin a hotel parking lot and slept in the car because I couldn’t affordthe hotel. I got dressed in a gas station restroom, and bouncedinto the meeting saying “Join me! We’re going to be millionaires.”

“So, how did that make you feel,” asked the interviewer. “Sleepingin your car and all, that must have made you feel like...” I knewwhat she was getting at: Did you feel low self-esteem?Disenfranchised? And my answer was, after a long pause,“Hmmm. I don't know!” The truth is, I hadn't even thought aboutit. It was just what I had to do. I was just doing what needed tobe done.

So, making “whatever-it-takes” decisions is a biggie. So is gettinga good support team around you. You don’t want to hang out withthe naysayers. Hang with people that are making it happen andthat indulge in elevated thought and conversation.

I had great support from my family. I elicited support from mykids by delegating. You have to structure your time. So youdelegate. In many cases I didn't have a choice. It wouldn't matterhow much of a control freak I was. I had to let some things gobecause I just couldn't do it all. So I developed what I call the“Save Your Sanity” system. It’s a system of incentive and chorecharts with cash rewards and prizes that I’m now actually offeringto busy moms. It incentivized my kids to willingly take care oftheir rooms, the kitchen, the animals and all kinds of things forten cents and up per completed chore. Ten cents was pretty goodmoney for a kid in those days. I rewarded them with “Bucks” thatthey could convert into cash. The Bucks really added up over time.Sometimes it would be special Bucks like “Bahamas Bucks” that


they could spend when we went to the Bahamas, and “FirstTimer Bucks” for completing a new chore for the first time.

So my kids became little entrepreneurs at a very young age, andhelped me survive in the process. Then the “whatever-it-takes”decision, my compelling “why,” and not expecting things tohappen overnight all came together as the strength to help methrough. I wasn’t looking at today's results and revenues andletting that determine how I felt and how I acted. I had a long-term perspective.

So I say to everyone in the business: Delegate! Step up intoleadership by, among other things, freeing yourself of tasks thatothers can do. If you have a family, enlist their help and you’ll beamazed what a win-win that is for everyone in the home.

Certainly, there were times when I was exhausted and it felt crazylike, “What am I doing?” I once drove clear across the countryfrom Salt Lake City to Louisville to do a meeting. I remembermy presentation was kind of lacking and I think two or threepeople were enrolled and I felt well, “What am I doing? Is thisever going to pay off?” Interestingly, that was 26 years ago andsome of the people I enrolled at that point are still on my team.Yes there’s been plenty of attrition — people have come and gone— but I’m still being paid. There’s still a leg that came out of thatmeeting, that long ago. So, you never know. Is it insane? Is it areasonable sacrifice? Am I doing whatever it takes?

Hutch: True. But in those 26 years, Margie, did youever want to quit?

Margie: Oh my gosh, yes. Of course. Many times. Sometimesevery day! The company was only about a year and half old anddoing about $28,000 a month worldwide when I started. We


were doing $1.2 million in my group within 14 months and wethen grew very rapidly. But as you know, rapid growth isinvariably fraught with special challenges. In my case it was shockand awe challenges. The toughest hit for me was that just as Ithought things were going well, I had to rebuild more or less fromscratch, and that happened three times in a three-year period.

I was well on the way to my first million when the first crisisstruck. Every distributor was focused on one hot-selling flagshipproduct. But after it had been in use for some time we found itwasn’t performing as expected. Thousands of customers anddistributors left in a matter of months. Those who stayed losttheir momentum and became pretty much inactive.

In year two I was rebuilding my business when literally thousandsof people who were not succeeding with their company decidedto join ours. I was heavily invested in getting them up andrunning and earning the income they desired. But here was oneof the biggest issues with rapid growth. Our company wasn’tadvanced enough to accommodate the numbers and theadditional growth that would follow. So during the next sixmonths, most of those distributors trickled away.

By year three I had built my team up to 20,000 people when ourcompany decided to change its name and asked everyone to signa new distributor agreement! My team went from 20,000 to10,000 overnight! Yes, a 10,000-member team is still a lot. But Ithink you see what I mean.

Another defining moment for me happened one night early onwhen I was leaving for yet another home meeting. I wasabsolutely exhausted and wondering if my efforts were payingoff. I had said good night to my kids. I had pulled out of thegarage when my 3-year-old son Todd, who is now 28, camerunning out in his soccer pajamas sobbing “Mommy, don’t go.Don't go.” He got me at a low point. I pulled the car over and


got out and held him in my arms so he couldn't see that I wascrying too. I was so depleted but from somewhere, Hutch, fromsomewhere I gathered the strength to say, “Todd, please be a bigboy. Go back inside and I will make you a promise.” At the time,I had no idea how I would keep the promise. I said, “Someday, Iwill take you everywhere I go,” and then I went off to the meeting.

I’m not telling you all this as a “poor me” story. But you asked ifI had ever wanted to quit. So, the point again is this: I had madea “whatever-it-takes” decision, I built belief around it, and mypassion was driving me to stay when others quit. Staying with aworthy company is one of the most important messages I havefor everyone in network marketing.

I often think of the people who left what is today one of thebiggest legs in my North American business. The leader of thatleg is a man who began long ago on my fifth level. He rolled upto my front line because he stayed when others left. So he’s a richman living the life of his dreams today. Those who left theirpositions between him and me would also be rich if they had juststayed in the game and purchased the occasional tube oftoothpaste or something. But they left for one reason or anotherover the course of a couple of years.

So in those times when things aren’t going your way or you’refeeling low, remember the saying, “It’s always darkest before thedawn.” It’s those moments of self-doubt and weighing it all andasking yourself. Is it working? Am I missing something? Should Ikeep going? Will it pay off? That’s when you rise to your feet andyou put one foot in front of the other; one foot in front of theother, and that increases your objectivity. It’s so defining for yourcharacter and it speaks volumes in your pursuit of your dreams.

Hutch: That’s wonderful. You certainly met others


though, that haven’t had your fortitude and perhaps have quitand gone on to other opportunities. What’s been your experiencewith those that leave a company and go to another opportunity?For the most part, is the grass greener on the other side?

Margie: Not usually.

Hutch: Not usually?

Margie: There are some instances where people have left theircompany and had more success in a certain situation but mostlypeople usually do the same in the new situation or don’t even doas well. “Wherever you go, there you are.” At some point everyoneneeds to look themselves in the mirror and take responsibility fortheir own success. In my opinion, jumping from company tocompany isn’t the answer. I just think it makes sense to stay andweather the challenges. It’s almost like a marriage. You pick yourpartner and choose to have the challenges with them. You canlearn your lessons with whomever you choose. No company isperfect. So pick one and stick with it unless you know thatcompany just isn’t worthy. But many people walk away too soonwithout reaping the benefits that come from staying with onecompany.

However, there are situations involving integrity issues. When acompany is out of integrity or out of alignment with thedistributors’ core values, the distributors can no longerrecommend the opportunity and/or products or services and theyhave to leave.

For the most part, it really is persistence and staying power thatmatter. I mean you just… you never know. There were times whenI was rebuilding my business and it looked like there was preciouslittle happening but then, down there on my fourth and fifth


levels, something was bubbling up and if I had quit, who knows?But instead, I stayed and I developed it. And I’ve got a team withstaying power. The first woman I ever enrolled in 1989 is still aleader on my team today.

Hutch: Wow.

Margie: Still, yes.

Hutch: How long ago was that?

Margie: Twenty-six years.

Hutch: Twenty-six years?

Margie: One company.

Hutch: Wow.

Margie: I don’t know very many people who have stayed withone company for twenty-six years. It’s a small group of us.

Hutch: Well, absolutely. It’s a hall of fame group.That’s incredible. So, what advice and direction would you offerto people who may be on the verge of quitting? What can theydo to help themselves go to that next step and stay focused?


Margie: The first thing I would say is move into massive action.When you’re in massive action, you’re learning so much, andyou’re getting better faster. You have proof that the business isworking and you’re creating a better story. You’re creating afeeling of momentum around you. You create urgency in thepeople you talk to. People get involved more quickly when theysense you’re about big things. And so, a lot of times people quitwhen they’re inactive, when they’re doing so little. How can youpossibly make a decision to lead when you’re not even in action?You’ve got to give this thing a really good shot.

So I would say, move into a 90-day massive action plan as thoughyou were starting your business fresh today and see where youare in 90 days. Because if you’re talking to a minimum of twopeople a day and you’re following up with a three-way call withyour upline mentor and you’re enrolling people, you’re going tohave a very different business 90 days from now. And so neverquit without having given it your all.

I think another thing that holds some people back is a need forperfection. They want the company to be perfect. They want everyaspect of interfacing with the company to be perfect. They wantthemselves to be perfect. They want to have every answer. Somepeople just flat out quit if a shipment wasn’t perfect or thecompany literature isn’t perfect. But come on. We’re human.We’re doing the best we can and every company is going to haveits challenges. So, go. Get into action. Be willing to beginimperfectly, and stay despite the imperfections. You know, acouple of my favorite sayings are, “It is better to begin with faultthan to hesitate perfectly” and “Anything worth doing well isworth doing poorly until you learn how to do it well.” Just bewilling to take that growth curve.

And then finally, remind yourself that there’s a sowing season andreaping season and they don’t come in the same season, and thatyour job is to keep planting.


I think the experience that taught me this reaping-sowingphilosophy happened about two and a half years into my business.I was making very good money and I could afford to fly whereverI wanted to and I could stay in hotels and all that. No moresleeping in the car. And I was invited by a team member to do ameeting in New York. That felt a little intimidating to me, comingfrom Utah to tell the people in the Big Apple how to makemoney.

But I was very well prepared for the meeting. However, the cabdriver got lost en route. So, I’m panicking. This was not the dayof cell phones — it was twenty-three years ago, roughly — and Iwas in a panic. I arrived at the meeting like 35 minutes late.People were irritated, fanning themselves in a narrow room andit was hot and stuffy. I gave a brief presentation and then justreally wanted to get out of there. I felt that the meeting was aflop. However, a Russian gentleman — this was shortly after thebreakup of the Soviet state — came up to me and said, “I’m goingto take this to Russia.”

Hutch: Wow.

Margie: At this stage of my business, I’d long since quit listeningto people’s words. I now waited for their actions and then I gotexcited. So I just patted him on the back and said, “That’s great!Go for it! Let me know what I can do to help you! Good luck!”

A few months later, I started noticing Russian names — Svetlana,Igor, Valentin, Roman — showing up on my commission reportand pretty soon, there were pages and pages and pages. Prettysoon, there was another zero on the end of my check and it waslike, “Is this that Russian guy?”

What I learned is that he started shipping products over in


suitcases. And it grew. The business grew and at one point, beforethe rubble fell, I decided to order my entire downline summary.It was that green and white bi-folded paper with perforated edgeswith fifty names on each side. I pulled this gargantuan thing outof the box, dumped it flat onto my desk and counted the pages.There were more than one half million names. I could see thatmany team members were developing businesses throughoutEurasia and Russia, from Siberia to St. Petersburg, Ukraine,Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, just all over that whole region.

Hutch: Oh my gosh.

Margie: Five hundred thousand-plus people and I just…it wasmy lesson: There is a sowing season and a reaping season andthey’re not in the same season. Your job is to keep planting. Youcan’t plant one or two seeds and think you’re going to get a bigharvest. You can’t plant your seeds today and think you’re goingto harvest tonight. You just have to be willing to keep on planting.

And so, the beautiful thing about it — and I know you’ve hadthese experiences too — is that when you plant and plant andplant and you do this sowing part, when that reaping seasoncomes… I remember the feeling so distinctly. In that moment, Iknew that I had paid the price with consistent effort. I had anoverwhelming feeling. I thought: By damn, I know I earned it. Iknow I picked up that phone when I didn’t feel like it. I stayedwhen many quit, I kept going when many stopped, and I pushedthrough all the obstacles.

Hutch: That’s awesome.

Margie: But in the same moment, I also thought: Oh my


Gosh.What did I do to deserve this? Because when the reapingseason comes, it’s so much greater than you could ever imaginefor yourself. And you never know where it will come from. Whoknew? Who knew that it was going to come from a meeting thatI thought was a flop in New York? So you just have to keepplanting.

The final thing I would share on all of this is just really the rippleeffect now. I was in Bulgaria recently at a convention of the wholeEurasian region. That convention was happening because 23 yearsago I had gone to a meeting in New York and one guy heard andstarted shipping products over and then he told someone to tellsomeone to tell someone and now, I make money while I sleep.When I go to sleep at night, they wake up and there is nothingI can do to stop what I began with one simple consistent effort.

I was on the stage getting ready to speak and I was just taking inthis sea of faces in this giant auditorium. I just paused for asecond and thought, What if I’d quit? What if I’d quit? Becausehere’s the greatest thing: On the last night, when they werehaving their gala event — and these events go on and on — itwas about one in the morning, and they invited all of the childrenof the distributors to go to the stage. Hutch, 250 kids from 2, 3,4 to kids in their teens to 19, 20, 21 all went to the stage and Ijust thought: Oh my gosh. Look at the ripple effect. As I looked intotheir faces I thought of my original “why,” which was to give myown children a better life, and how the impact my “whatever-it-takes” decisions had on so many more lives.

I love my life! And I’m still actively engaged in building mybusiness, now with bigger vision of being able to make adifference on a larger scale and as you know, empowering women.And then I look at my kids and I look at who they’ve become,perhaps not by accident but maybe even as a result, to somedegree, of seeing an entrepreneurial mom.


We have travelled the world together. I was able to totally keepthe promise I had made to little Todd that night on the street infront of our home so long ago. As recently as two years ago Itook all of them and a couple of their significant others for amonth to Australia, Fiji and New Zealand where my fiancéjoined us. And they’ve all migrated to San Diego. So now I havea place there too. I wouldn’t have been able to afford that on aschoolteacher’s salary. And because of the passive income, I wasable to fly to San Diego for just a day to celebrate my daughter’s30th birthday, and again for a day of bridal gown shopping withmy son’s fiancé. I couldn’t have done all that if I hadn’t keptplanting and planting and planting.

So, there’s always give and take, Hutch, and the thing that makesit so hard is that sometimes, the choices we have are yes and yeschoices. If it was easy, it wouldn’t be hard. You know what I mean?There were times that I missed the home run at the game and Icry today thinking about it. There are choices and when you makethe decision to go full out for your business, you are going to haveto back away from other things. You’re just going to give your fullfocus to your family and the things that matter most in yourbusiness. Other things can sit on the sidelines for a little whilebecause if you give yourself that gift and you do that massiveaction, what you end up with will make it all worthwhile.

So, I look at the sacrifices and I remember tenderly, even today,because you never get time back. But I wouldn’t change thechoices I made. I’m so grateful for the life that I’ve been able toprovide for the kids and for the hundreds of thousands of peopleall over the world who wake up healthier or have more financialabundance than they’d have if I hadn’t told someone who toldsomeone who told someone who told someone.

Hutch: True. That’s incredible. Let’s get into some


specific business building strategies. What do you say whenpeople say “No,” and then the follow up question is: What do youteach your team to say when their prospects say “No” to them?

Margie: In both cases, I say the same thing. I think you need tohold it all very lightly. In the beginning of building a business,“No” is always going to feel like personal rejection, but it’s not.So it helps tremendously if you can realize that you are the onewith the gift. In today’s world there are so many people who havelost hope. They don’t know how to go about pursuing theirdreams or making their dreams come true. They would like somesecurity in retirement or would like a little extra financial wellbeing right now. They may very well be waiting for the productor service you represent. You’re the one with the gift! So, you justhold any initial response very lightly when you offer the gift. Justallow people to be where they are.

In the many years I’ve spent building the business, I recognizethat some people are going to say, “Not right now. Not the righttime.” Hold that lightly and let them be where they are and say,“Hey, is it alright with you if I circle back to you in 90 days andsee if anything has changed?” I’ve never had anyone say “No” tothat question.

Hutch: That’s perfect.

Margie: So you just keep the door open. Hold a high intention,low attachment and just remember that you’re looking for thosewho are looking for you. And that’s not everyone. But if you canjust go through life and every interaction you have with someonemakes their day a little better and you share something that liftstheir spirits — even for a moment — it’s like that’s all thatmatters. It all counts. And just as Wallace Wattles’ states in hisbrilliant book, The Science of Getting Rich, “Leave every person


with a feeling of increase.” If you adopt that attitude then youcan’t possibly feel diminished by somebody saying, “No. It’s notthe right thing for me right now.” If you are thinking about howyou can leave them with increase, you are drawing the biggercircle. You can’t be diminished. You can’t be excluded. It’s amindset thing and it does take time to cultivate that level of beliefin your company, in network marketing, and even more inyourself and your ability to get to the top of your pay plan. Yes,that would be my Number One piece of advice in that regard.

And then I’m a big fan of massive action. I really believe in short-term sprints. To this day I’m being paid for work that I did in myfirst two years and it’s because I went full out. When you giveyourself that gift of massive action, a lot of really great thingshappen faster. Fast is more fun than slow. And when the resultscome in, you get a better story. You have successes that you cantalk about and this helps you recruit and lead.

So, I’m just a believer in really putting the pedal to the metal andlifting off right at the beginning. Or if you’re many years in andyou still haven’t had the success you want, you can choose to maketoday the moment of decision. It all starts with that “whatever-it-takes” decision like it’s your time. You can just know at thatmoment and say to yourself, “It’s my time. There may have beenexcuses before but there will not be excuses any more. It’s mytime. I am stepping into this.” And with that decision, you canengage in your 90-day massive action plan at any time.

Hutch: That’s great. You’ve got such a great script forthat. In following up, I’m going to ask you a few more “Howwould you handle these objections?” questions. I’m going to giveyou three.

Margie: Okay.


Hutch: “I like it, Margie, but I need to talk with myspouse.” That’s the first and then the second one is: “I don’t havethe money.” The third one is: “I want to think about it.”

Margie: So one is, “I want to think about it.” I like to movepeople to action quickly and I think when you’re coming fromthe right place, when you really do care about them and not youragenda but theirs, then you’re in that situation of high intention,low attachment. That way you can say more than you would beable to if you were in a high attachment kind of situation.

So I might say, “John, I hear you. I wouldn’t want you to jumpinto something that you’re not 100% ready for. I know you’regoing to have your greatest success if you’re 100% in and so, that’swhat I want for you.

“That being said, here are some things I know: Taking massiveaction, acting on how you feel… when you and I were talking,you mentioned some of your dreams and some of the things thatyou want for yourself. I saw you light up and I know that whenyou put your hand up and say, ‘Yes,’ the magic happens. And so,let’s define what you’re feeling and where you are with it.”

After that, I’d probably try to dive a little deeper. And then theother thing I would say is “If it’s cool, I really do want to meetyour spouse. What I don’t want you to do is head home and tryto explain this with just the little bit of exposure you’ve had tosome of these big ideas. Can we set up a time when we can allget together?”

You don’t want anyone to go home and try to explain it to areluctant spouse or a significant other. You don’t want to set themup for failure in any way. So, I would always take the stance, “Myjob here is to stack the cards in your favor and here’s what I know:


When people move into action, things start happening for them.Doors open with the simple act of making a decision. So, my jobis just to do everything I can to set it up so that you can besuccessful. I care about where you’re coming from, and here’sanother way you might look at it: Now is always the best time tojump in if your heart is telling you it’s right.

Hutch: Perfect. And what about the person that says,“I just don’t have the money?”

Margie: You and I both know it’s never really about money. It’sabout the value. When we really value something, we can alwaysfind the money. So first of all, I would have the valueconversation. But then there are people that are truly in a badfinancial situation. They might say “I’d love to but I’m reallystrapped for cash.” So you explain that your company’s fast startis the best way for them to start, given their situation. If you sensethey’re really honest, then you have to get to the bottom of theirtrue intentions. Is it because this was the first objection that cameto mind? Or do they really mean what they say?

So, I like asking clarifying questions such as: “How much timedo you think you would need? How much money do you thinkyou would need?” Make sure that you’re identifying what theirconcern is because you really do want to deal with their concernright then and there. You also want to call forth the best that’sin them. So, if somebody is honestly broke, but hugely passionateabout the business, then I would find a way, like “Okay. Let’s dothis: Get in for the $29.95. Get a little bit of product and thenbring me your top ten prospects and we’re going to get you tosuch and such a point by such and such a time. We’re going tostart into the business building process.”


Hutch: That’s perfect. How have you been able tochange people's negative perceptions of the network marketingindustry?

Margie: By loving it and believing in it myself. And not beingafraid or uncomfortable having a candid conversation aboutwhatever a prospect may feel about it. I find there is less resistanceto network marketing today than in the past but people do havemisconceptions and I want to know what they think and feel.What is their experience or what have they heard? I want to meetthem right where they live.

When people ask me what I do, I flat out say, “I’m in networkmarketing. Do you know what that is?” I want to talk about ithead-on, and I want to hear their thoughts about it in detail —good, bad or indifferent. The only way to diffuse negativeemotions is not to become defensive. Just hold it all very lightlyand hear people out. You can even agree with them by saying“You know, when this business, like any business, is done right, itcan be the best thing in the world. But let’s face it. Not everycompany or individual has integrity, and sometimes people gethurt.

After they’ve exhausted their story I ask, “Can I share myperspective with you?” I say that I can’t imagine any other way Icould be living as I do today if I had remained a schoolteacher. Isay that the network marketing business model is the best in theworld because it’s based on people helping people, you experiencetremendous personal growth in the process, everyone gets paidaccording to their performance, you can work at home andwithout previous experience, and there’s no cap on how muchmoney you can make. I’ve noticed that no matter how muchsomeone makes in traditional business, they’re always captivatedby the network marketing promise of passive recurring income.


Frankly, I love it. When it’s done right there is no greater businesson Earth from my perspective.

Hutch: And if I’m a brand new associate who is justgetting started, Margie, and I approached you and I said, “I justdon't know who to call,” what advice would you give me?

Margie: Don’t judge who may or may not be interested. Compilea list of 150-200 names from your smart phone, your contactmanager, your friends on Facebook and other social platforms.This doesn’t mean we’re going to call everyone. Just make the listand identify the top 25 people you’d most love to have in yourbusiness. You can’t build a business without a list and you need abig list that you can add to regularly. If someone only has tenpeople on their list and three say No, they’ll think they’re out ofbusiness from the start.

I’m a real big believer in following a system… plugging peopleinto daily exposures and conversations with potential businesspartners. I also believe in the use of compelling tools such asonline videos and webinars. That way you can simply invitepeople to take a look. You can say something like “Hey Marcia,I’ve got a business idea I want to run by you. I’d love to work withyou. You’re the exact kind of person that can succeed in thisbecause you know how to get things done and you have anawesome way with people. So are you open to reviewing a shortvideo to see if this is a fit for you?” Then you offer to send a linkto the video and say, “I think you’re going to love what you see.When can we connect so I can get your feedback?”

Hutch: And what do you look for in talent?


Margie: Hunger. Passion. Desire. People who want to be, do andhave more. People who know how to get things done, who arereally busy and good managers of their time. If you can link armswith somebody that understands the whole gig of commissionsales where they’re paid on their production and not paid if theydon’t produce, that’s an added bonus. Somebody that has donecommission sales is always a great, great contact.

I also look for people that have a lot of drive but are also veryheart-centered. I look for the qualities of persistence, like-mindedness, teach-ability, willingness to make and keepcommitments and the ability to see a big vision, impart it easilyto others, and expand it.

Hutch: So would you say that your company has madeyou a better person, or you made your company a bettercompany?

Margie: I think both ways. I think I’ve had a significant influenceon the company because I’ve stayed and offered great feedbackand weathered challenging times and helped develop marketingtools and systems. So, I think in those ways I’ve really helped thecompany.

In terms of the company and the opportunity helping me, oh mygosh. I’m not even remotely the same person that began thisbusiness 26 years ago. And I’m grateful beyond words for thefinancial freedom and all the gifts it brings, the travel and therelationships around the world, the lifestyle for my kids, theexample of commitment and working hard and theentrepreneurship that my children observed, all of it. But thething that I really am so, so grateful for is that I believe in myselfmore and I trust myself more. The greatest confidence in theworld comes from knowing you can count on you. I think the


greatest thing that can happen in network marketing is who youbecome and who you help others become in the process ofbuilding your business.

I had the sweetest experience, Hutch, a couple of years ago whenTom Ziglar invited me to do a webinar for the Ziglar communityand he had surprisingly arranged lunch with Zig and Mrs. Ziglar.

Hutch: Tom is Zig’s son?

Margie: Yes, and he was running the organization. So we hadthis wonderful lunch and as we were leaving, Tom and Mrs.Ziglar walked ahead, and Zig and I were walking arm in arm. Hewas just ever-so-slightly leaning on me because he was gettingon in years. And it was just sweet to think that I was slightly,slightly supporting him.

He said, “Margie, the challenge in the world today is that so manypeople have lost hope. Just be that person that can be a voice forhope. There are so many people that live their whole life withoutanyone saying to them, ‘You can do it.’” And he said, “You,Margie, you can get out there and tell people they can do it.”

It was one of those full circle moments. Then he got in the carand drove away and I went back to the Ziglar offices anddelivered a webinar to his community. And I thought: How fullcircle is that? I mean, how sweet. What a sweet, sweet moment.

Hutch: Do you have a favorite quote?

Margie: Just one? Of course I have many. Here’s one for you:


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,

and there you will long to return.”

~ Leonardo da Vinci

Hutch: I love that quote! Brilliant! When you look tothe future, what are you most excited about? What does your lifelook like in the next few years?

Margie: First of all, the company has just re-launched in NorthAmerica with a fresh new message, a compelling brand, and thenew name, Modere. And with the same commitment to productpurity and safety as before. I’m really excited about thepossibilities. I think we’re up to something special that has neverbeen done before in network marketing and I love being a partof that. And so, all of that feels great and right.

Second, I’m equally excited to be branching out with myspeaking. I take great joy in helping distributors in all companiesachieve their dreams. I’ve learned a lot over the past 26 years thatcan help people succeed, especially from the unique perspectiveof being a single mom who made it to the top. I love speakingon the success principles in my training called “The Six Steps tothe Top of Your Pay Plan” and in my book, How to Get AbsolutelyAnything You Want.

And then third, I see a huge advance in this global women’sempowerment project. I think we’re just starting to put some ofthose pieces together and I’m very excited about being able tomove the needle on those issues.

I see also increased time freedom so I can spend more time withmy fiancé and my children. Watching their lives expand is sucha great joy to me.


Hutch: Can we talk about the vision behind AThousand Moms Making $1,000 And Making a Differencecampaign?

Margie: Yes. That’s actually a campaign I launched several yearsago around the idea of women educating women about safe, non-toxic products in the home plus the opportunity to potentiallyretire their husbands or at least make a significant income fromhome.

Then there are some other initiatives that are just gettingunderway. For one, we’re meeting with Project ConcernInternational in San Diego and discussing how we want toallocate our resources for a domestic and international women’sempowerment project. Then we’ll begin a rallying cry and I’mexcited about this phase because I think most people, especiallywomen, have a strong desire for meaning in their work.

So, I think it’s going to be very exciting and beautiful to addanother layer of meaning and making a difference. Women fromall network marketing companies will come together to helpempower women around the world. This is also for theimpoverished mind and the impoverished spirit, to be lifted upin a really comprehensive way, where we can breathe more lifeinto them at every level and help them live lives of greaterexpression. All of that feels very exciting to me.

Hutch: What’s going to be your legacy, Margie? Howwould you like to be remembered? A simple question.

Margie: Yes it is. It makes me emotional. I want to beremembered for love; that I really loved. And I want people to


know, when I look to their eyes, I see greatness within them; thatit’s my honor to cross paths with so many amazing people and toknow that I showed up and I served well and loved. Really, reallyloved.

Hutch: I knew that soon as I met you. How can ourreaders get to know you better? Is there a Web site we can takethem to or your books that you’d like them to read?

Margie: Yes. Of course. www.margiealiprandi.com.

Hutch: Okay.

Margie: On that Web site, there are a lot of great resources. Oneis the free Daily Affirmation that people can sign up for. I getemails from people regularly saying that the affirmation was justright for them that day. And it’s wonderful to know that’s makinga difference for people. There is also, on the homepage, a free giftcalled the Belief Builder, which is fabulous for getting rid of thedisempowering beliefs that block so many people from success.Our belief system is the core and a major cause of the experiencewe’re having in life. When it comes to our beliefs, we tend to lookfor evidence in our outside world that they’re true and if you canupgrade by replacing disempowering beliefs with empoweringones, life unfolds by your own design rather than by default. Andso, that’s a great gift on the site.

Then, my book How to Get Absolutely Anything You Want isavailable on Amazon. And then there’s the book that I justfinished with my writing partner, Martha Finney, whom I adoreand who is such a gifted writer. We gathered the 75 voices of veryaccomplished, iconic network marketers — household names


that have made it, that have walked the path and are living thedream. We asked them three simple questions: If you were sittingacross from your most promising new team member and youcould just share your sage advice, what wisdom would you share?What is the best thing they should do? What is the worst thingthey could do? What is the first thing they should do? The finalquestion we asked each of them was: What is it that keeps yourflame burning brightly about network marketing? So we’vecaptured that from 75 amazing network marketing and directsales experts and it’s a fantastic book. It’s called Best Worst First.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Worst-First-Marketing-Everything/dp/1939927676

Hutch: Best Worst First. Got it. You are such abeautiful soul; such an amazing, unique woman and I’m sofortunate to have this time with you. You are 1,000% heart andit’s obvious that what instills hope in others is who you are andso I can’t thank you enough for taking the time. Any final wordsyou’d like to share?

Margie: Yes. There is a sowing season and a reaping season andthey’re not in the same season. So, keep planting. And most ofall, remember to stay grateful. Meister Eckhart says that if theonly prayer you ever offer is “Thanks,” that’s enough. So, staygrateful in the process and enjoy the journey.

Hutch: Well, I am truly grateful. So, thank you.

Margie: Thank you, Hutch.


Hutch: What a treat. We’re going to make it happenand help lots of women and girls around the world. Thank youfor your time-tested business building strategies as well as yourheart. Thank you for pouring it out and not leaving anythingbehind. I appreciate you very much.

Margie: Thank you.


Chapter #3 Stephanie Davis

When something matters to me, I cannot be stopped. It’s not over until I say it is over.

~ Stephanie Davis

Global Master IBOeCosway

www.StephanieDavis.com

Hutch: Welcome Stef. I am honored to have this timewith you. I am so lucky that our good friend Wajed “Roger”Salam introduced us. Waj and I worked together at TonyRobbins’ company for many years and I knew the day I met himhe was destined for greatness.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/rogersalamThe fact that Waj is on your eCosway team speaks volumes. Youhave an amazing story. I want our readers and listeners to get toknow you a little bit better beyond your standard bio. I’d like tohear what it was like to grow up. Tell us your story about yourupbringing.

Stef: I was born the second child in a family of seven. My fatherwas a strict and volatile man with high standards and near-impossible expectations of himself and those around him. Hisdemanding perfectionism probably served him well in his careerof Art Direction, but it caused great fear and strife in our family. My mother left most of the child-punishing duties to my dad


even though he always came home very late. If I did somethingwrong on a weekday, I would be told, “Wait til your father getshome!” Fear and dread would grow in the back of my mind,increasing as bedtime approached. My father would arrive afterI had gone to sleep and once my mother would report mymisdeeds, I would be awakened to face his fury and endure theconsequences.

Today, even my father can’t believe that anyone would usecorporal punishment on a child. If he had become a father laterin life, I might have been spared any “belt across the bare bottom”attempts to tame my spirit. But alas, my parents actually marriedvery early in life. They had my sister 11 months after the weddingand me a year later. So rather than being guided by the wiser,kinder man that he is now, we got to experience my father in hisyouthful prime — when his sure-fire recipe for molding perfectchildren was to never ever spare the rod. I routinely got whippedwith a belt for fidgeting in church or arguing with my brothers.

Luckily, his intensity swung both ways. Holidays wereparticularly memorable in our household because while we weregenerally extremely strapped for money (and my mother had touse every trick and coupon in the book to stretch every dollar)my father would spare no expense to make holidays exciting andelaborate. His artistic talent would be on full display withamazing and unique Halloween costumes, lavish Easter baskets,exciting Valentine surprises, and gorgeous Christmaspreparations.

In the early years, my mother was an affectionate doting momand an efficient homemaker. She sewed our clothes, cookedfabulous meals and was involved in the activities of all fivechildren. “Always keep smiling and stay strong” seemed to be herpersonal motto and her advice to us during any trial ortribulation.

Chapter #3 Stephanie Davis68

Unfortunately, my father’s demand for perfection and other forceseventually broke down my mom. She became an alcoholic whenI was ten or eleven. Her homemaking skills and her motheringinterests deteriorated rapidly and our lives became a living hell.She became completely unreliable as a chauffeur and a supportsystem.

My parents divorced when I was thirteen, which intensified theneed for my sister and I to take on the household managementand the care of our younger brothers. I’ve honestly forgotten mostof the details of this period of my life. I remember a lot of yelling,fighting, drama and drinking. It was not a happy home.

Oddly, I remember myself as a very happy child. It was as if allthe drama rolled off my back. My “true” life was always outsidethat house. I loved school, I had a best friend named Roxanneand I had a decent bike. What more does any kid need? After anexciting day at school, we would ride for hours, exploring theneighborhood and speeding and jumping along the hills of whatwe called “the bike fields.”

Hutch: Growing up, what were your uniquecrossroads, peaks and valleys?

Stef: The repulsiveness of my parents’ anger and alcoholism droveme to make decisions about how I wanted to live my own life.Once as a small child, I watched my father come home andbecome angry because (by his standards) the house was a mess. Iremember thinking that was funny because I realized that it washis expectation of perfection that caused his grief (and then ours).I couldn’t understand why he would expect the house to beperfectly clean, when it never was. How could it be with five kidsrunning around? Why hadn’t he learned to expect a messy house,when clearly, the evidence had repeatedly proven that to be more


likely? He was making himself angry by expecting anddemanding something that had a slim chance of manifesting.

This early observation was one of the turning points of my life.It began my lifelong quest for understanding human behaviorand spurred my inner drive to not let irrational thoughts controlmy own emotions and behaviors. Mind you, I STILL haven’tmastered that completely, but it has been a constant goal that haspermeated every aspect of my life and development.

My mother’s alcoholism was another enigma to me. I couldn’tunderstand how she could allow “booze” to control her and ruinher life (and ours). How could a glass of liquid wield so muchpower? At first, I thought that I could talk some sense into her.She liked the idea of using me as her sounding board late at night.She would come home drunk, wake me up, sit me down at thekitchen table and start telling me her woes and her philosophiesin the pathetically slurred style that drunks use in movies. Idecided to take the opportunity to play “counselor” and see if Icould persuade her to make better choices.

Not having actually been trained in Psychology yet, and nothaving ever been to an Al Anon meeting yet (where you learnthat alcohol complicates personal choice) and not even havingreached legal babysitting age yet, my advice to my drunk andforlorn mother was probably naïve. I doubt she got much out ofit. I however, learned a lot.

I learned to stay away from alcohol (and any other mind-alteringsubstances) and to carefully guard my own power. I learned thatI couldn’t depend on anyone in life but myself. This was perhapsan unnecessarily hardened attitude for an otherwise Pollyanna-ish and enthusiastic young girl, and it caused a deep pain ofabandonment somewhere in my psyche, but it also served me wellover the years.


I became driven to do well in school and in my personal interests.I learned to like my own company and became obsessed withself-mastery. I literally read one book per day my whole life untilI reached my 30s (when work and home demands took priority).The support and guidance that I didn’t get from my family oforigin, I got from authors, speakers and my own mental musings.

Hutch: Other than your parents: Who have been yourmentors? Coaches?

Stef: Having read thousands of self-help books and hundreds ofbiographies and having attended many dozens of workshops,lengthy seminars, trainings and retreats, it is hard for me to singleout any particular mentors and I can’t say that I have ever had a“coach”.

As a child, my mentors were the Greek Gods. I loved mythologyand stories of hero journeys and rites of passage. In high school,I devoured the works of Plato and Marcus Aurelius. Studying formy BA in Psychology, I was highly influenced by AbrahamMaslow and set my goal for self-actualization. My self-help practiceand my budding work as a personal development coach and speakerwere initially based mostly on the rational/cognitive behavioraltherapies pioneered by Albert Ellis http://albertellis.org/ andthe cognitive processing theories of Daniel Kahnemanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman. I lovefinding cognitive errors, correcting them and thus setting myselfor someone else free from psychological self-torture.

When I began my sales career, I voraciously consumed everythingI could get my hands on by ZigZiglar, Jim Rohn and TomHopkins. I read, recited and practiced the scrolls of the GreatestSalesman in the World for almost a year. That devoted practice wasprobably the closest I’ve had to being “coached.” OgMandino


certainly made an impact on me. http://www.ogmandino.com/

Well into my sales career, I met Tony Robbins. He was startingout then, but his bodacious claims that, “If you have to see atherapist more than once, that therapist has no skill or integrity,”certainly caught my attention. http://www.tonyrobbins.com/

I attended everything that Tony had to offer (which at that timeconsisted of the “Mind Revolution” weekend and weeklongNeuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) retreats. I becameobsessed with Neuro-Linguistic Programming. I went to thevarious NLP schools, enjoying the bizarre hypnotic stunts ofRichard Bandler and the mind-boggling observation or “acuity”skills of John Grinder and his associates. I ultimately got myMaster Trainer certification from Grinder Laborde& Associates.I value to this day the self-mastery skills and communicationprowess I developed with the help of this group of mentors.

For most of my working life, I’ve focused on biographies andbooks about Psychology, Self-Help, Motivation, Leadership,Sociology and Quantum Physics. So it should come as nosurprise that once my youngest child (at the time) went off tocollege, I began a PhD program in Systems Theory, which pullsfrom all of those areas.

In the past ten years, my mentors have mostly been spiritualleaders from many different religions and disciplines. Havingalready achieved great financial success, my focus has moved awayfrom self-mastery in the sense of production to self-mastery inthe sense of self-awareness and spiritual growth.

Hutch: Who has had the greatest impact on you andwhy?


Stef: I really can’t pinpoint one person. If I really had to choose,I would say my son, Francisco. Not only was he always wisebeyond his years, but I had him when I was only 21. So, raisinghim made me grow up and learn to sacrifice anything andeverything to put someone else first. He also allowed to me seeand believe in the power and stability of unconditional love —mostly mine towards him, but also his towards me. There hasbeen no greater dojo for me to learn to “do whatever it takes” thanmy striving to be a good parent.

Hutch: What has been the major contributing factorto your success?

Stef: The overarching factor that has contributed to my successis tenacity. I like that word better than persistence or perseverancebecause it captures the flavor of the “Stephanie Spirit.” To me,the words persistence and perseverance have a rather noble orstoic quality to them and smack of pain and sweat endured forthe sake of steadfastly moving towards a worthy ideal. Stable andsteadfast are not words you’re likely to hear when people describeme.

Truth be told, I frustrate quickly and quit easily when somethingno longer seems worth pursuing. I’m notorious for engineeringthe easiest path to a goal and then abandoning it for newer, evenshorter path. (I hop lines in grocery stores too ;-)

The characteristic tenacity I am talking about is raw. It’s a fire inmy belly that roars whenever I want something to happen —especially if circumstances imply that it can’t be done or ifsomeone says, “Ain’t gonna happen, Lady.”

When I was five, I wanted to be an Eskimo when I grew up. My


parents, relatives and teachers all told me that the idea was stupidbecause “Eskimo” wasn’t a proper profession, and Alaska was cold,but the comments never fazed me. I got a parka and practicedwalking barefoot in the snow to toughen myself up whilebuilding igloos in the backyard and dreaming of northern lights.My father was particularly bothered by this fantasy of mine. So,a few years into it, he told me that Eskimos are dirty and smellyand that they chew up raw fish and spit it into the mouths ofbabies and the elderly. He mashed up raw fish and told me thatif I didn’t want to eat it, I couldn’t be an Eskimo. That’s where Idrew the line and thought of a new future. But at least it was MYchoice (or so he allowed me think).

Early in my adulthood, I found myself as a newly divorced momwith a baby in tow, trying to get through grad school with nochild support. I couldn’t be a full-time mom, a full-time student,and a full-time worker. Since work and motherhood weren’toptional, my Masters degree went out the window.

After scouring the classifieds and realizing that my “dime adozen” Psychology degree wouldn’t even buy me a cup of coffee,I turned to the profession of sales—where there is no limit to thepotential income. (There is also no floor!) But, finding a sales jobproved to be more difficult than I had imagined. I was toldrepeatedly that years of sales experience were prerequisite toapplying.

So I told a receptionist that I had the necessary experience. (Ididn’t tell her that I was counting my early days of selling candyto win prizes from comic books.) Then, in the interview, whenthe sales manager looked at my resume (which clearly had no realexperience listed), I quickly asked, “Did you notice that myresume is on gray paper?”

As a look of confusion and shock came over his face, I continuedwith an explanation of how it’s funny that in life, almost


everything is gray. Black-and-white rules (like requiring salesexperience) are meant to protect principles, but they are alsomeant to be broken if doing so gets that job done better. Notletting him respond, I shifted gears with another question: “Howmuch interest does the bank down the street pay on a savingsaccount?”

He replied, “Around 5%, I think.”

I said, “Well, I’m sure you know of a safe investment that wouldpay more than that right?” After he nodded, I asked, “What typeof investment would that be?”

“Mutual funds” was his predictable answer.

I smiled and asked, “If you knew about a fund that could safelyyield more interest than a savings account, yet still decided to putyour money in the bank, you’d be throwing money away, right?”

Even though he was clearly confused (which I later found out inNLP training was a great state to have him in), he answered,“Yes.”

That’s when I knew I had him. All I had to do then was pointout how not hiring me was like throwing money away—becausesuperstar salespeople were probably not answering his ad. Hewould probably interview mediocre salespeople who were alwayslooking for greener pastures rather than looking in the mirror. Itold him that even though I had no formal sales experience, I wassure I would be a top performer (like that mutual fund), and thatif he didn’t hire me instead of one of those mediocre (but steady,like a savings account) applicants, he would be throwing moneyaway! I got the job and went on to become the top salesperson.

One time, I had worked for months on a really big sale, and myboss blew the deal at the last minute with an unrehearsed guest


appearance at an important meeting. After my initial shock andfeeling of loss, I felt the fire in my belly and thought, “Who saysit’s over?” even though the client had clearly indicated that it was.

I put on my thinking cap and showed up at the client’s office witha special gift. I asked the receptionist to send in the velvet box(containing a wooden and brass “twiddler”) and announce that Iwas waiting in the lobby. The enclosed note said, “We botchedthe last meeting so badly that instead of you starting the solutionI proposed, you were left twiddling your thumbs, wondering whatto do to solve the problem. I thought the least I could do is helpyou with your twiddling.” A few minutes later he emergedlaughing and invited me in to finish the deal.

I faced many “insurmountable” objections and plenty ofseemingly devastating circumstances in the course of my careeras a salesperson and later as the founder of a training anddevelopment company. Every time I hit a brick wall or sufferedan unwanted “end” to one of my passionate pursuits, I felt thefire, chanted the motto, “Where there’s a will, there’s a way” andnever took “No” for an answer if something important was atstake.

The person who will probably end up admiring my tenaciousspirit the most is my youngest daughter. I met her at a Malaysianorphanage where I was volunteering on Sundays. (I lived andworked in Malaysia for many years.) At a very early age, she haddecided that I was her mother. She exhibited all the tell-tale signsof such a bond. She refused to let the orphanage staff touch herwhen I was around, and she would jealously do everything shecould to get me to pay attention only to her and ignore all theother babies. At first we all thought it was humorous. But, whenI didn’t show up for several weeks due to a business trip, shestarted to show signs of abandonment (for the second time inher life). When I returned, she leapt with joy into my arms, butthen buried her head in my bosom and shook, sobbed and


shuddered for what seemed like an eternity. When she looked upat me, her eyes displayed an entire encyclopedia of emotions—joy, fear, loss, pain, love, anger, the happiness of reunion, the shockof abandonment and so on, all in the same look!

I didn’t know what to do. If I kept coming to see her, she wouldbecome even more bonded to me. But if I stopped coming, thepain and loss would surely be psychologically devastating for her.I knew that one way or the other, I would have to adopt her. Shebelieved I was her mother. I had to make it so.

I could fill two books with the details of what turned out to be afive-year battle to adopt her. It started with my husband feelinglike our own five kids (who were almost all grown) were enoughand that it was time for retirement. He turned out to be apushover, but that wasn’t true of the Malaysian governmentworkers who quoted endless laws, rules, and reasons why I couldnot get that baby girl. For example, she was not abandonedproperly (with parental signatures), so she wasn’t adoptable. Shewas not given Malaysian citizenship (since they didn’t know whoher parents were), so the government had no jurisdiction to adopther out.

Once I had tackled and surmounted these fundamental issues, awhole new set of problems emerged. They told me that she wasa different race than I was. So, we were ineligible for adoptivepairing. They told me she had a different religion than I did, so itwas “forbidden” for me to adopt her. They told me that since Ialready had children, I was not eligible to adopt…and so on.

Even though she had no other future than to grow up in anorphanage until the age of 18 and then be put out on the streetwith no papers, no money, and no hope, they kept insisting thatI could not have her. I jumped through endless hoops, lobbiedumpteen politicians and made it crystal clear to all partiesconcerned that I was not going to stop until my daughter was in


my arms. I didn’t care how many precedents would have to beset, nor how many laws would have to be bent to make it happen.

One of the hardest battles came after I had obtained legal statusas her foster mother but the actual adoption was still years away.I received news that my mother only had a weeks to live and thatshe wanted all her children at her bedside. I obviously couldn’tleave my little daughter (she was not even three years old), so Itried to get her a passport. It was downright maddening!Government departments were all pointing fingers at each other,saying that the other departments would have to do somethingbefore their own department could help. It was genuine deadlockand I thought I was going to have to choose between missing mymother’s deathbed or permanently scarring my daughter. Then Ifound the fulcrum!

A fulcrum is the point on which everything pivots. When youfind a fulcrum, you can move anything. I was listening to thedirector of a department trying to get the other department totake on the problem when I realized that everyone was operatingout of fear. Every department head and every politician fearedtaking action because it might set a precedent that could comeback to get them in trouble later on.

Once I realized that everyone feared making a big mistake, Iknew how to get the passport. I went into psychological journalsand found articles that “proved” that a child under the age of threecould be permanently scarred by an extended maternal absence.I highlighted and summarized the studies’ conclusions and sentthem along with a cover letter to every department head andpolitician — including the Prime Minister.

I told them that if I had to leave my daughter for several weeksto be at my mother’s bedside, it would scar her for life andpossibly leave her unable to ever trust or love another person. Iasked them if their departments would like to take the “blame”


for this damage, since they were blocking the passport process.When faced with the threat of being blamed (and showcased inthe international media) for blatantly disregarding the welfare ofan orphan, the department heads all got together and agreed toget me a passport that afternoon!

When something matters to me, I cannot be stopped. It’s notover until I say it is over.

Hutch: What is it about you that makes you unique?

Stef: I am kind of like an orange. I have a bright, somewhatleathery, functional exterior (my passionate pursuit of projectswith indomitable tenacity) but I have a soft, sweet and nourishinginterior. People who only see me in powerful business situationsmight overhear me talking to my little daughter on the phoneand say something like, “Gee, I never imagined that side of you.”

Hutch: How were you introduced to eCosway?

Stef: I was invited to Malaysia as the Master Trainer of NLPSoutheast Asia by Grinder Laborde and Associates in the ‘80s.When I got there I found that other types of training were ineven greater demand. So I ran a comprehensive training companycalled Results Masters and produced trainings in Sales,Leadership, Personal Development, Parenting and of course NLP.My calendar was fully booked by the global fortune 500corporations, many local companies, and never-ending publicprograms for the masses. It was at one of my weekend sessionsthat I met the former Prime Minister’s daughter. She and Ibecame friends and she introduced me to Al Chuah – thefounder of Cosway. http://www.cosway.com.my/


He had started the company in 1979. I met him in 1984 and didthe first opportunity meetings and leadership trainings for thecompany. Before that time, the growth had all been organic —through natural word of mouth. I worked with Al and Coswayfrom 1984 until 1989. Then I went back to the USA.

In 1999, I finished a book called How to Have a PhD(Prosperous, Happy Downline) in Network Marketing and I hadwritten about Al Chuah in the foreword of the book. So, I askedmy secretary to track him down and send him a copy. When hereceived the book, he called me and said that the timing wasperfect because he was getting ready to take Cosway global. Sohe invited me to come back to Malaysia and help him with thenew endeavor. I was an integral part of the planning andformation of the new subsidiary – eCosway.http://www.amazon.com/Prosperous-Happy-Downline-Network-Marketing/dp/B000JGEPME

Hutch: What was your defining reason to becomepart of eCosway?

Stef: I have always had a love/hate relationship with networkmarketing. In principle, it is such a darned good idea! Why NOTtake some of the normal marketing and advertising budget andpay it to people who become your “word of mouth ambassadors”rather than wasting it on expensive commercials and middlemen?It is a very win/win idea that fuels entrepreneurship and offersbetter triumph and freedom to individuals than many other typesof jobs or enterprises. People can actually get paid for helpingothers and doing what they love, while corporations can availthemselves of the most powerful form of advertising on earth.How does it get any better than that?


The downside is really not in the principle. The downside (ormaybe we should even call it dark side) of network marketing isthat in practice the model can be seriously distorted. Many so-called network marketing companies are cleverly disguisedpyramid schemes (which always end up hurting people). Othersdon’t take the normal marketing budget and pay it to peopleinstead of advertisers and middlemen; they artificially inflateprices (lowering value to the end consumer) in order to payhigher and higher network commissions.

When I met Al Chuah and saw the company Cosway, I wasliterally awestruck. He had built a company that was 100% trueto the core principle of network marketing AND was 100%dedicated to providing high quality and value for money to theend-consumer.

When people think that Cosway is like “this company” or “thatcompany” I get a bit frustrated because the similarities are alwayssuperficial. Maybe the company they are talking about hashundreds or even thousands of products like we do – but thesimilarity ends there. The core value system and operatingpractices of Cosway are like no other company I’ve seen. I can betotally proud to represent Cosway (and eCosway) because it is aself-sustaining win/win business model that allows everyone toreceive benefit and value for doing things that are naturally intheir own self-interest (which you can always count on to do).The customers naturally seek out the highest quality for thelowest price, and naturally tell others where to find it. Thenetworkers naturally and easily build a business of loyal customersand eager entrepreneurs who relish the possibility to have a fullyfunded business with “big-box store type offerings” at pricespeople are excited to pay. Companies naturally want to producethe high quality goods for this loyal network. The companynaturally wins with this self-motivated, naturally sustaining,model. If you always put the consumer first and offer loyalentrepreneurs an opportunity, the business is sure to last.


I believe that if more network marketing CEOs had Al’s value,vision and ethics, the industry would skyrocket overnight.

Hutch: What have you had to overcome to make itand how do you deal with obstacles?

Stef: From an early age, I always felt that I had “wings” and knewthat the minute I was able, I would be flying away to far awayplaces and doing amazing and interesting things; but I came froma family that was by most definitions, pretty dysfunctional. I hadto overcome the heavy pull into despair and be strong for mysiblings while keeping my dreams alive in my head. My parentsweren’t college-educated and had no obvious “plans” for our lives.So, I also had to overcome the pull of complacency and have thebig plans for myself.

Hutch: What was the defining moment or obstaclethat you had to overcome that you knew made the biggestdifference in your business? Personal life?

Stef: I had two obstacles in my personal life that made a hugeshift. Both were about “control.”

The first was when I was the victim of a violent crime that shookme to my core. It wasn’t what happened to me physically thatmade it hard to get over. It was the fact that I didn’t see it comingand the fact that philosophically, I couldn’t understand how I had“attracted” it.

At that point in my life, I had a Bachelor’s degree in Psychologyand had been working with people for many years. I felt I was a


pretty good judge of character and pretty good persuader forpositive change. The perpetrator did not seem like a “bad guy.”He was a well-respected elder in my church community. WhenI was subjected to an entirely different experience of him (andcompletely unable to persuade him out of it) it dealt a devastatingblow to my understanding of reality and my sense of personalcontrol over my environment and my experiences. Instead ofbeing open and loving to everyone, I became very fearful andsuspicious of people.

A close personal friend of mine noticed the extreme change inme. He says, “That was the day that Pollyanna died.” I was reallythrown for a loop. Without being able to trust my own judgmentabout the safety of situations and my judgment of people’scharacter, I felt unable to move in the world.

The other thing that really threw me off about that situation wasthat I had been operating on the belief system that you get whatyou attract. Everything that grows in your life comes from a seedyou plant, etc. That belief is empowering when it causes you totake your life by the reigns, but when “bad things happen to goodpeople” it can be a crippling philosophy! I was looking for whyI “deserved” what had happened to me. I withdrew into my homeand didn’t come out for a year. All of my motivational books,certifications and “techniques” were useless in helping me to getout of the philosophical mess I was in. The key that finally gotme out of my rut was actually reading material written by peoplewho survived concentration camps. It was during that period thatI learned to love Viktor Frankl and his Logotherapy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy Reading about howpeople who endured abhorrent treatment at the hands of otherhumans, and yet found a deep source of strength within, wasinspiring. Even more inspiring to me, was a book by Martin Gray.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Gray_(Holocaust_survivor)He described not only witnessing and experiencing despicable,unbelievable atrocities in the concentration camps, but also the


loss of his precious family in a fire years after the war was behindhim. He saw the worst of humanity and experienced the worstof tragic losses yet he came out of it all with an unbelievable zestfor life and love.

Near the end of the book, Martin says, “We who know thetragedies of the world still believe in the Prince of Hope. I believein the eternity of hope because I have met beauty: It is in thefaces of women and children. But if one knows how to look, thereis beauty in every human face. One must seize the secret behindthe smiles or the wrinkles or even buried under what one mightcall ugliness, which is often only an expression of suffering, aprotest against solitude or incomprehension. We must know howto look.”

Viktor’s different take on Psychology and Martin’s personaltriumph over the cynicism and despair broke me out of my hole,ready to face the world again and look for the beauty even amidstthe anguish and evil. Instead of wishing that the world wouldonly contain light and never be dark, I “grew up” and realized thatthe two co-exist; one has to choose how to perceive and how tosucceed. Pollyanna was indeed dead, but the new me was morebalanced, more patient and much more tolerant of the strugglesof others. Before my own inability to stand up, I had no patiencefor others who could not. Without experiencing what it was liketo not want to live anymore, I could not understand or respectothers who were in despair. The experience gave me a well-roundedness and made me much better at my profession ofhelping others to reach their fullest potential.

The next personal obstacle that affected me deeply was the deathof my mother. She died of cancer not long ago, when I was wellinto my career. I had been independent since my college days. So,it wasn’t as if she were actually “necessary” for my survival (as amother might have been in earlier years) but when she died, Iwas suddenly (and quite unexpectedly) thrown into an internal


panic. I felt lost and abandoned and I feared for my survival. Irealized that somewhere in the back of my mind I had beenholding onto the idea that there was a safety net beneath me atall times. I assumed that if I failed at everything and losteverything, I could always go home to live with my mom. Eventhough I didn’t need to do so, the thought that I could-- had givenme an extra level of confidence. You’ve probably heard thequestion “What would you do if you knew you couldn’t fail?”That question is supposed to give you motivation. Well for me, itwas – “What would you do if you knew that the worst casescenario is that you end up living with mom.” It made me prettyfearless in life.

When she was gone, I had to face the idea that my survival wascompletely up to me and that essentially I could ultimately neverdepend on anyone (because you never know when people will dieor things will be lost). After I got over my initial panic, I came torealize that her physical presence was not where my strength hadcome from. It had always been there, I just didn’t realize it.

Her death also made me examine the real meaning and purposeof life. I realized that ultimately, things, people and evenexperiences fall away, but the reality of life is much deeper thanthat. The more you get in touch with Ultimate Reality, the lessfear you have.

On the business side, the obstacle that had the biggest impactwas when I ran out of clients. I had come back to the US aftermy first four years living in Malaysia and was trying to getcorporate clients. My small son and I would starve if I didn’t findwork. The red tape of getting into companies was seeminglyinsurmountable. HR managers were pitched every training underthe sun by people who seemed far more fabulous and polished thanI. There didn’t seem to be any way for me to break through thebarriers of entry.


Every obstacle I had faced up to that point had been overcomewith sheer will and positive thinking. But this situation (where Ihad already established a career, was 100% responsible for a child,and had experienced many years of success, yet found myself withno way to pay bills or even put food on the table) was devastating.On top of my fear I also experienced a great feeling of hypocrisy.When you teach others how to be successful in life, it’s hard todeal with your own failures. How did I have the right to teachanyone any life skills or success strategies when I was such afailure?

What got me out of that place, was when I learned not to walkthe trodden path; not to do my profession in the same wayeveryone else was; not to knock on the same doors everyone elsewas knocking on; and to “bet” on myself.

I stopped calling on HR managers and pitting my portfolioagainst others. Instead I went to chamber of commercesundowners and other networking events and I listened to peopletalk about what was going on in their companies. When I wouldhear a situation that my skills could solve, I would gently mentionthat something like X could help. The person would agree andsay, “Oh my gosh. Too bad our company isn’t doing that”, or “Toobad our company doesn’t hire you.” To which I would alwaysreply, “Well, why don’t you and I do it for your company as a gift?”I knew that if I tried to get paid for my work, we would be backat the HR Manager’s office and this poor line worker wouldn’thave the means or motivation to try to get me a contract. The“gift” idea was very exciting to them though. I told them that Iusually got paid of course, but since we were new friends, I wouldbe willing to come into his or her department and do one of mysessions for free, which would make my new pal a hero to his orher boss. I suddenly had a full schedule and in almost every case,once a company had gotten a taste of what I could do, theyarranged for their HR people to make it happen in all of thedepartments. No portfolio necessary!


Hutch: Did you ever want to quit? What got youthrough?

Stef: There have been several periods in my life when I wantedto quit in business; never in my own consulting and trainingbusiness, but several times in my career with eCosway. When Iwent back to Malaysia in the end of 1999, it took almost a yearto launch our company. Everything that could have gone wrongdid. We had originally planned to do everything online (hencethe “e” being added to the name). So, I assumed that after all theinitial meetings I would be able to help from my home in the US.That didn’t turn out to be the case. It was the year 2000. MostMalaysians did not have computers and had never been online.Malaysia didn’t have fixed fee Internet yet — they were stillpaying a high price per minute — and the web browser wethought we could give people to get them online, never worked.After about 11 months, we finally had to completely switch ourstrategy to an offline one.

Month after month we faced delay after delay after delay. Theproducts we thought we could source from the East and sell tothe West and source from the West to sell to the East turned outto be mired by limitations in allowed sales territories. Nobodyhad figured out seamless global payment systems, etc. Shippingcharges were often far more than the price of goods, etc.

To top it all off, 911 happened in the US. We were in Malaysia,but the devastation from the fall of the Twin Towers shook ustoo. Suddenly Malaysia (which had been virtually unknownbefore then) was being incriminated as part of an “axis of evil”because half the population is Muslim! (Malaysia is actually anincredible example of a majority-Muslim country that is peacefuland welcoming to all.)


We had planned a big launch in America. We wanted toshowcase this exotic, exciting modern country and its businessmodel that, in many ways, could truly “revitalize the Americandream.” After 911, the global mood soured and suddenly the USwas fearful of foreigners and things that came from far awayplaces. We had to completely change our plan again. We decidedto dominate Asia for as many years as it would take before theWest was ready for us again.

I was living in a hotel this whole time, away from my husband,children, and animals. It had been three years of thinking: Anyday now, I can go home. So, I never moved into an actual residence.Once the West was lost, I knew I would be in Malaysia for manymore years. I really wanted to pull the plug. I felt “stuck” and sorryfor myself. I felt like life kept “changing the rules.” It took a lotof introspection and self-talk to realize that I was not a victimand that if I really believed in what I was doing, there could beno “only-ifs.” I could not say that I would hang in there “only if ”this or that looked this way or that way. I decided to hang in there“no matter what.” It was a milestone for me. Instead of thinking,“I’ll-stay-as-long-as-I-want-to”, I decided to stay as long asneeded. It was the first time (besides motherhood) that I reallydecided to put serving before happiness. Of course, I thenlearned that once you give up seeking happiness, it tends to followyou wherever you go!

Hutch: How has this business enabled you to becomethe personal best version of yourself ?

Stef: The amazing thing about network marketing is that itallows (or forces) you to harness all of your greatest strengths andface your biggest weaknesses. It requires that you really learnabout yourself and about other people. Nobody on your team isan “employee” nor is the company your “boss.” So, everything you


achieve or don’t achieve is based on your ability to succeedwithout any forced power or submission. As long as there areother people in your company who are succeeding (and thereforeit can’t be the company) there is no excuse for your performanceexcept what you find if you take a long hard look in the mirror.

Hutch: What are you most looking forward to in thefuture?

Stef: I am looking forward to “unlearning.” All my life, I’ve beenan avid learner and teacher, but now I realize that the more Iknow, the more I know I don’t know and the more I realize I don’teven need to know. I’m more into “being” than becoming.

Hutch: What does your life look like in the next fewyears?

Stef: I’m at a point in my life where I can focus on what mattersthe most to me. So, I’ll be spending more time with family andin nature, but I am still a “workaholic” at heart. I derive greatpleasure in the work I do, so I suspect I will do it until I die.

Hutch: What is your philosophy on recruiting andbuilding teams?

Stef: I believe in finding good people. You can’t teach a pig tosing; trying to do so will only frustrate you and annoy the pig. Ibelieve in servant leadership – not dictatorship nor a “higherpeople are better” philosophy. Once enough service has beenrendered to give a person the skills they need to succeed, I believe


in full empowerment – giving expectations, making sure the skillsare there and then giving full accountability and credit for theresults to the person.

Hutch: What do you look for in talent?

Stef: I look for people who are open-minded and eager to learnand who have a strong work ethic. Too many people today havebeen spoon-fed information and have learned to blandly repeatit back but they don’t “own it.” In business, this same patternshows itself in workers who want to be told what to do. They donot want to take ownership of their jobs and bring their wholeselves to the task. They think that they should earn money forshowing up and not making the boss mad. I prefer to find peoplewho have a passion for life and bring that to the job. I like child-like enthusiasm, and “beginner’s mind” coupled with confidenceand “do whatever it takes” determinism. I didn’t say it was easyto find.

Hutch: What’s your Website pleaseStef ?

Stef: www.StephanieDavis.com

Hutch: What will be your legacy?

Stef: Hopefully, my legacy will be the upliftment of humanity— both on a personal level for a handful of people and hopefullyon a global level through some of the charity projects I’minvolved in.


Hutch: Stef, I appreciate you. I admire your devotionto your children. You are an inspiration to many including me. Iknow that the words of this interview will inspire others and takethem and their families to new heights. I’m proud of you! Keepup the awesome work and I’ll see you soon. Any parting wordsof wisdom you’d like to share? How would you like to beremembered?

Stef: As a loving, giving, generous guide.


Chapter #4 John Hoffman

Keep the main thing the main thing. Live a life of character. Live a life of integrity.

People don’t want to be managed; they want to be led.

~ John Hoffman

LegalShieldPlatinum Three Executive Director & Regional Vice President in Tennessee

http://www.premiersolutionsintl.com/

Hutch: John, I know you as a great dad to three lovelydaughters and you’ve always been a loving husband to Darcy. I’mthrilled and honored to have this time with you.

John: It’s great to be with you.

Hutch: How many years have you been withLegalShield?

John: Sixteen.


Hutch: Sixteen years, wow. We met back in 1995, Irecall.

John: The Peoples Network (TPN) launched in ‘94. So, it wasearly ‘95.

Hutch: Yes ‘94, ‘95 and one of my fondest memorieswas being with you in Vegas. We were up in Gladys Knight’sPresidential suite with Les Brown and I remember meeting atleast one of the Pips.

John: Yes, exactly. It was Super Bowl weekend of ‘95 and TomMcCarthy had given me the initial call and I went out, did ameeting on a Saturday and you came in on Sunday. GladysKnight was so excited; she wanted to have some of her familythere to hear my presentation again.

Hutch: The funny part is: I tell people I met not onlyGladys Knight, but I also met the Pips. I remember that one guyin her band was pretty short and I said it was a perfect name forbeing a Pip.

John: That’s funny. Did we go to Gladys’ concert on Sunday too?

Hutch: Yes, and I remember thinking: What anamazing voice Gladys Knight has when she sings “MidnightTrain to Georgia.”

Chapter #4 John Hoffman94

John: I am with you. She’s an incredible talent.

Hutch: Yes, and what a blast we had to hang out withLes Brown; that’s crazy.

John: Oh my gosh! You’re right.

Hutch: Today, John, you are a Platinum ExecutiveDirector and you are the Regional Vice President for LegalShieldin Tennessee?

John: Yes I am a Platinum Three Executive Director & RegionalVice President in Tennessee. Correct.

Hutch: You’re also a member of the Millionaire’sClub?

John: Yes. I’m one of the inaugural members of the Millionaire’sClub; did it in the first three years.

Hutch: Let’s get in to it. John, tell our listeners yourstory about your upbringing and touch on anything that wasunique in terms of crossroads or peaks and valleys.

John: My upbringing would seem to be fairly normal in thebeginning — with mom and dad and a brother and a sister —but it became very dysfunctional. My dad left when I was in sixthgrade. He was a practicing attorney. I come from a family of


attorneys on that side; all trial attorneys from my greatgrandfather to grandfather to my father and he left. He left. Hewalked out on his family. He was an alcoholic. It became adysfunctional family because I had an amazing mom — sheworked three jobs while she worked to get her Master’s — but Iwas responsible, as a sixth grader, for helping to raise my brotherand sister. It was an extremely, exceptionally tough time.

I had a couple of mentors at the time, people that I really lookedup to; they were both my grandfathers. One was a trial attorneyand the other was a guy who worked for the WrigleyCorporation, corporate America guy. I didn’t know him as wellbut I had a lot of respect for his character and the things he haddone. He’d worked hard. My other grandfather, who was a trialattorney, was really the one that I looked up to and I had someaccountability with.

It was a tough time. It was an exceptionally tough time and reallywhat saved me during those years and kept me from the “pits ofhell,” per se, were sports. I fell in love with all the traditionalsports — football, baseball, basketball — but my first love wasbasketball. While everybody else was out doing what youngjunior high or high school kids do, I was practicing hard at thesport of basketball. I went on to be a college division one playerand I look at that as my saving grace at the time when thingsweren’t so good.

Hutch: Who were some of your coaches?

John: Not really any coaches that had an impact on me, per se. Ilook back and, through life, some of my mentors became someof my first sponsors in the direct selling profession. A gentlemanby the name of Jeff Roberti http://www.roberti.net/ and a ladyby the name of Cheryl Cortese


https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.cortese; as I started to growand mature and understand a little bit about what life was about,Myles Munroe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Munroe,Paul J. Meyer https://www.pauljmeyer.com/, John Maxwellhttp://www.johnmaxwell.com/ and individuals like that becameinfluencers and mentors in my life.

Hutch: You overcame tremendous adversity at anearly age, sixth grade. You had responsibility for your brother andsister. As you look back, what have been the major contributingfactors to your success today?

John: The major contributing factors for my success go back towhen I was saved. I was lost in a world full of, for lack of a betterword, hopelessness, and so the biblical principles that I finally gotto understand are: servant leadership, character and integrity. Ihad to let go of the past and look forward to a future that hadhuge potential. Contributing factors were: The day I gave my lifeto Christ and a very special lady that I married; that was Darcy.She had a big impact on my life; she does, and always has, pushed,strived to or moved people towards the excellence that’s in themand not the worldly values, per se. I don’t know if that makessense or not.

Hutch: Oh it does, without a doubt. What point wasthat in your life when you were saved?

John: You mean what was the timeline?

Hutch: Yes, the timeline.


John: The timeline was about nineteen years ago.

Hutch: Wow, okay.

John: That was the start.

Hutch: Let’s go back to when you were introduced tothe profession of direct selling. How were you introducedspecifically?

John: I was introduced kind of by mistake when I was introducedinto the direct selling profession. I had a background of corporateAmerica and small business ownership. I had thought that theanswer to life was you go to school and you get a degree so youcan get a job. I went to work in the oil industry.

I went from Michigan down to the Houston. I had a big interestin offshore drilling. I went to work for a company and four yearsinto it, I got downsized. It was a rude awakening for a young kidbut I think out of adversity can come opportunity if your head ison right. I’m not saying mine was on right at the time, but I knewthat I didn’t want to repeat the past. I wasn’t building my dream.I wasn’t building my life. I was building someone else’s. Theydictated what I was going to make, when I came to work, whenI went home and what my future was going to look like for themost part.

That was when I first started reading, at a fairly young age,autobiographies of successful people. If you want success, you dowhat successful people do — whether it’s parenting, raisingchildren, investing, health, nutrition, wellness or the kind of life


you want to model. I realized that wealth in the United Stateswas created through business ownerships. So, I moved fromHouston to Austin, Texas then back to Grand Rapids, Michigan.

That’s when I started an environmental company and I had a biginterest in removing the leaking underground storage tanks thatwere impacting Michigan’s ground water supply. I think mostpeople would say that’s a pretty good idea but I was two yearstoo early. Hutch, basically what happened is that I learned thehard way. I got my butt kicked twice because I didn’t understandthe value of timing and I had all the traditional headaches thatgo with small businesses — the capital and resources to start it,workman’s comp, general liabilitiesand cash flow.

I don’t know about a lot of folks but, for me, the transition andthe turning point was the burning desire and a never-quit attitudebecause for things to change I had to change; for things to getbetter I had to get better. I don’t think anybody has ever been sosick and tired of being sick and tired, but that’s where I was. Ibartended at night and I framed houses in the morning for$7/hour, just to keep my environmental company alive during theday and that’s when I got introduced to the direct salesprofession; the home-based business industry.

I was skeptical. I was ignorant. It was in November of 1988 thatI got introduced to this profession but I’ll never forget: A friendof mine called and said, “John, it’s time you based your decisionson the facts and not false assumptions. Go and research thecompany National Safety Associates [NSA].”

My wife and I flew out and researched the company. I didn’t havetwo pennies to rub together but where there is a will, there is away. In the process of researching the company, we got excitedabout that company’s product. It was a company called NationalSafety Associates(NSA) and the product made sense. Andbecause the product made sense, we looked to find a couple of


the top people in the company that had character, that hadintegrity and said, “Look, we’re hard workers. Would you teachus the business?” That’s when we were introduced to Jeff Robertiand Cheryl Cortese, two of the top producers in NSA. Byworking with them and being mentored by them, we builtdistribution in seven countries in the next six years.

Hutch: Let’s go back to that defining moment whenyou started with direct sales. Did you keep the environmentalbusiness going? Did you do the business full-time? What wasgoing on?

John: That’s a great question because a lot of people said, “You’reout of your mind.” I was burning the midnight oil. I couldn’tafford to stop bartending and I couldn’t afford to stop framinghouses; that was the only cash flow that I had and myenvironmental company wasn’t going to make it because the ideaof the company was two years too early.

We were phasing out on that but I was already working 80 hoursa week when I took on this new endeavor. I knew that if I wantedthings to change, I had to change. I’ll never forget my sponsortaught me that there was safety in numbers and it was a law ofaverages and I needed to keep the main thing the main thing;stick to the basics. If I would go out and see the people and tellthe story; some would be interested and some wouldn’t. The pointwas keeping the main thing the main thing.

I was a great student and what I lacked in skill, I made up innumbers. My wife was considerably smarter. She worked smart.I worked hard. It took me a little while to learn the differencebetween the two, but I did learn. What I lacked in skill, I wouldmake up in numbers and what I would make up in numbers, Iwould gain in skill. Eventually, by burning that midnight oil,


things started to change. We started to build that business and Iwas able to say goodbye to bartending. I was able to say goodbyeto framing houses. I was able to say goodbye to parts of the lifethat I didn’t want to have.

Through hard work and being persistently consistent andconsistently persistent with an attitude overrunning to employmyself versus the employer-employee mindset, a 1099 mindsetversus a W-2 mindset, we made six figures that first year andwithin the next five years, we built distribution in seven countries.

Hutch: That’s incredible! What makes you so uniqueJohn?

John: I don’t know what makes me unique other than I realizedthat my past did not have to equal my future. What I mean bythat is: The day I gave my life to Christ, I was introduced to myoriginal self; I was introduced to a man who was created overman’s purpose; my true self, not what the world thought of me.When you get introduced to your original self and realize thepurpose and potential that’s in you, you throw away thatlimitation type of thinking and switch to possibility thinking.When you come to the understanding that inside of you areunlimited possibilities versus limitations, you’re capable ofanything that you want.

Hutch: That’s awesome. John, many people enjoyingthis interview will be new to the business and it's my perceptionthat you were probably overwhelmed, especially in the beginningas you made that transition from bartending and yourenvironmental business to taking on a whole new profession andskill set. I think other newcomers to the network marketing


profession maybe may be overwhelmed too. How did youovercome feeling overwhelm in the beginning?

John: I think you go back to understanding life. Obstacles,roadblocks and failures are supposed to be there. Hutch, you andI have a good friend who was an impactor in the world, Mr. JimRohn. He said, “Don’t wish it were easier. Wish you were better.”I could look at all aspects of life; it wasn’t easy going throughwhat I went through as a young man when my dad left, but I hadto decide: Was I going to survive or was I going to thrive?

In other words: Inside of us, there is a fighter instinct. Justbecause you fail, it doesn’t mean you are a failure. Obstacles,roadblocks and being overwhelmed is always going to precedesuccess. Look at Michael Jordan, Jeff Gordon or Miguel Cabrerawith the Detroit Tigers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Cabrera. Take a look atsports, at business, at basically anything and everybody learns to…not everybody; I should say many people, including myself, learnto embrace failure. I learned to embrace failure, not because I wasa failure but because I was going to win; I learned that in thoseoverwhelming moments, in those times where the whole worldseemed to conspire against me, in the depths of darkness, that iswhen the great learning opportunities that I, that any individual,can possibly go through occur.

I learned to control what I could control. My wife was the onethat taught this, actually. So, I focused on that. I realized that Icould control the hours I work, the presentations that I did andmy attitude but that I couldn’t control the results. When I cameto that understanding that, I was able to stay focused on that andthe results eventually came. Life can be the greatest teacher ofwhat you want and also what you don’t want. A lot of times, Ialso learned that my mess became my message because, as Imoved through the failures, the obstacles and thoseoverwhelming moments, I knew that I could truly help others


not by talking the talk but because I had walked the walk. Doesthat make sense?

Hutch: Absolutely. I love it. I want to talk about yourstrategies for overcoming rejection. You said you made up withnumbers but did you have strategies for overcoming rejection?For many new people, they are going to be met with rejection inthis business. What are the strategies that you would advise themto use to overcome rejection? How did you do it, first of all andhow do you advise others?

John: Okay. Let me go back to a comment on what I just saidand then I’ll come to the rejection part too as I also wanted tosay this. My greatest growth came in what I sometimes call the“jaws of death.” My greatest growth came when I was down onmy back, realizing I didn’t ever want to be there again. Today, itseems like everybody wants to give a trophy; not everybodyshould get a trophy. We understand, and I know you do Hutch,that ‘life rewards deserve and not need.’

I think a lot of folks who are in the midst of rejection and in thetrials and tribulations of life are sometimes saying, I wish I didn’thave to go through that. I would challenge their thinking and say,“Be happy that you're going through it because of what it’s goingto make you. Someone's opinion of you never has to become yourreality. Circumstances don't make a man; they simply introducehim to himself.” If you're saying, “Oh, I wish it weren't so tough,”or “Oh, I wish I didn’t get this rejection,” understand that if itwere easy, everybody would do it, which would mean that youand I won't have an opportunity.

I don't know the exact figures Hutch, but I think 95% of thepeople in our country make less than six figures. In other words,only 5% of the people in our country make six figures; I think


only 2% make a quarter million a year and maybe 1% make overa half-million.

Hutch: Sure.

John: The reason is because it isn’t easy. So, I don't want myopportunity, or my life or my challenge to be easier. I want to beable to fight through it because of what it makes of all of us inthe process.

My marriage hasn’t always been great. There have been roughtimes, and the world would want you to think the pasture isgreener on the other side; well the pasture isn’t greener. Is itworth the fight? Absolutely, ask my kids. Is being successful, theway you define it, worth the fight? Ask the 17 people that I’vehelped become multi-millionaires in the company we’re withtoday. Ask the 40 people who became six-figure ring-earnerstoday. Every one of them would say thanks and the struggle wasworth it.

Hutch: That's awesome. In the 16 years of thebusiness, John, with LegalShield did you ever want to quit?

John: Absolutely.

Hutch: What got you through?

John: I realized that quitters never win and winners never quit. Iremember watching the Oprah Winfrey show one time and she'dinterviewed TD Jakes http://www.tdjakes.org/ and Joel Osteen


http://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Home.aspx. I rememberOprah talking to Joel and him saying everything that follows “IAm” will follow you. The idea of quitting is something that we’llall experience; life can be cruel and the forces of evil seem to comefrom all directions. But I know, Hutch, that when the finalchapter is written in my autobiography or in my life, I don’t wantit to say that I was a spectator in life. I want it to say that I wason the field and playing.

Another notion that might be pretty helpful for some of the folksis this: I learned that if I didn't discipline myself in my business,someone else would discipline me in their business. I don't knowwhy people will work harder for someone else than they willthemselves. There were times when I would not seem to be goingvery far in this business. So, I would sit down to read the ”SalesHelp Wanted” section of the Grand Rapids Press. I would sit thereand in the pit of my stomach, I would get a sick feeling thinkingabout having to go back and interview with somebody whowould then start dictating what the future of my life would looklike. I would think and play out scenarios in my mind: Okay, theboss is telling me I can't go to my kids’ soccer game on Saturday; now,the boss is saying I can’t make the kids’ basketball game on Tuesdaysand Thursdays. It was uncomfortable to even think about. I knewthat’s what quitting would get me and I knew that was exactlythe life I did not want. That got me going again.

See, you’ve got to get uncomfortable before you can ever getcomfortable. What you learn is that when you want to quit,there's a few times you might actually quit for a few minutes oreven for a day, but the next time you want to quit, it’s a desireand it's only for five minutes; then the next time you want to quitis only for a couple seconds and you then you finally get past theidea of quitting and realize: If it's to be, it’s up to me.


Hutch: In this business John, is there ever a good timeor a good reason to quit?

John: Yes. I do think that sometimes there is, but it cannot comethrough the “blame game.” It cannot come out of waywardreasoning of how it’s everybody else's fault and whining or cryingabout this and that. It has to come from a true place of rationalthinking. I’ll give you an example…

After being involved with the company for six years in directsales, Darcy and I decided that National Safety Associates wasn'tfor us. They had exchanged their product line, changed theirmarketing and there were some character and integrity issues inmanagement I could no longer associate with. We professionallywalked away from the company; we didn’t try to go back andrecruit anybody; we let the people that we had sponsored in thatbusiness, if they were happy there, be. We didn’t need to make it“not right” for them.

What I'm saying is we looked in the mirror and said, “We lovethe industry. It isn’t the right product for us at this time. We justare not passionate about it.” We decided that we needed to lookto start over. It was hard but I had to look in the mirror and Ihad to say, “Look, if we did it once, let’s see if we can do it again.”That’s when I was one of the eight people asked to help launchThe People's Network (TPN) and where I had the good fortuneof meeting you as one of the advisors there.

If you find yourself blaming others for your challenges or notseeing the success you want, that is not the time to quit. You donot have valid reasons. However, if you lose your passion andyou’re not fulfilling all that you are purposed to do, it might betime to look at making changes.


Hutch: That’s great guidance. John, with the peoplethat you sponsored and those that you’ve seen quit and go toanother opportunity, what's been your experience? Do theytypically do better with the new business? Do they stay the same?Is the grass, in fact, greener?

John: No. I believe people are sometimes misguided. I think thereare a lot of wolves in sheep’s clothing; there are a lot of what Icall “false prophets” and unfortunately, I think that sometimesthe priorities or principles that people live by get them intotrouble. In other words, for Darcy and me, it's never been aboutthe money; it's always been about the product that we deliver tothe marketplace.

Walt Disney made a comment one time and basically, toparaphrase, said that a product isn’t created for you and me. It'screated for the needs. You don't build a product for yourself. Youneed to know what people want and then you build it for them.The same can be said about the network marketing profession.When people come for the money they’re ultimately going toleave for someone else's idea of money. Then they’ll findthemselves in several different programs; and again, long-term,they’re living the mediocrities of life.

The majority of people that I've seen who have left the companiesthey’ve been with have been out 100 yards from the finish line.They’ve been making the run, striving, putting the effort in andthey’re so close to crossing the finish line but they forget whattheir direction and purpose is. The majority of folks I’ve seen whoquit and go to a new business are real close to having some greatbreakthroughs with the business they were in but then, theystarted buying into someone else's ideas and directions.


Hutch: What is your advice for somebody who is onthe verge of quitting the business? What can that person do totake that next step or stay focused instead of quitting?

John: They need to look at the people in the company that theyare working with and realize that if someone else has done it,realize they can do it too. They also need to go back to the basics,back to keeping the main thing, the main thing. No matter thebusiness, you can never really deviate from advertising yourproduct, advertising your company, seeing the people and tellingthe story. I see a lot of people start to have some success and theygo into what I would call a management mode versus leading byexample mode. People don’t want to be managed they want to beled. If you're running, your team is going to run; if you’re walking,they’re going to walk. If all you're doing is talking, they’re goingto talk. People watch your feet not your lips.

There's no problem in this profession that five brand-newdistributors or five brand new associates can't solve. So, keep themain thing the main thing. Live a life of character. Live a life ofintegrity. More than anything, be an individual who wants tooperate with servant leadership and when you shine your lighton others, I believe they are going to want to shine their light onyou.

Hutch: Awesome. If you thought about the last 18+years, how many “No’s” have you heard over your career?

John: All I can say is: If the word infinity were to come into playthat would probably be it.


Hutch: What do you teach your people to say whentheir prospects say, “No” to them?

John: Here's how I see it: I don't believe people are ever sayingN-O. I believe most people are saying I don’t k-n-o-w. What Imean by that is “No” is really never “No” until they k-n-o-w. So,Darcy and I tell them to persist until the prospects k-n-o-w.Once they k-n-o-w and say n-o, it’s fine to be 100% okay withthat…but don’t sit on the sidelines with people saying n-o andnot k-n-o-w what they're saying, “No” to. Does that make sense?

Hutch: It does.Let’s talk about recruiting. What doyou look for in talent John?

John: I've always looked for three things: Number one, burningdesire; number two, someone who's teachable; and number three,someone who has a willingness to work.

We’re involved with two nasty little four-letter words in life. Idon’t care what segment of life you come from; the number one“nasty” four-letter word is w-o-r-k. We’re responsible to work.It's called seedtime and harvest. If you don’t plant the seeds andcultivate and nurture them over time, you’ll never see a yield;you’ll never see a harvest.

A lot of people want to show up for the harvest and that’s nothow life works. So, I want to qualify people on the front end.Having the burning desire, the ability to be taught and thewillingness to work is critical. I qualify who I might be investingmy time with by what we call treasure hunting or askingquestions. My wife and I constantly look to discover, in thosetreasure hunting times with the person that we may be


prospecting to possibly recruit, what are their dreams, desires,goals, aspirations, strengths and interests. Then we try to bringour business model around those strengths and interests, thosedreams, those desires, those goals, those aspirations and, if we can,we have a win-win relationship.

There are times I’ll look at somebody who might want to get inour business and I’ll say, “I don't think it's for you.” Because all Iknow — and Hutch, I know you know this — is the greatestcommodity we have is time. If I’m giving my time to that brand-new recruit, I want to make sure that we’ve got a proper return,both of us, six months from now because I can't get that timeback. I can't get it back where I could have spent it with my wife,my kids, my hobbies or the different things that we like to do.

Hutch: How have you been able to duplicate thatprocess of qualifying others with the most successful people thatare on your team?

John: I learned 23 years ago that duplication is the power towealth. It doesn’t matter whether it’s our industry or otherindustries. A German man named Ray Kroc, the founder ofMcDonald’s, started it in the franchising industry.

The simpler that we can keep something, the more it's going toduplicate. We’ve been advocates of teaching and training alongthe lines of the different things we’re talking about here. We don'tdeviate from it. We don't get caught up with the flavor of theweek program. We don’t try to get into some new, sexy campaignthat sounds good from the front of the room. We keep the mainthing the main thing and those are the principles that havehelped drive this profession for a long time.

When you operate with that mindset and you serve the interest


of others, they’re going to stay pretty close to the fire because itnot only works for them but they know it’s going to work fortheir teams as they build. Systems and tools and keeping it simpleare critical.

Hutch: John do you recruit men the same way aswomen?

John: I do and what I mean by that is the questions I ask. Here'show I look at it: Questions are a window to a person’s soul. Themore I know about Hutch, the more I understand. The more Iunderstand, the more I know. The more I know, the better I canhelp. So, when you're asking questions, the strengths, the interest,the dreams and the desires of a male or a female can sometimesbe the same or can sometimes be very different. But, by askingthose questions, you know where to direct your energy becauseyou’re sincerely interested in helping someone that has thoseinterests, those strengths, those dreams, those desires.

For a mom it can be as simple as wanting to stay home with thekids and maybe have money for private education. That’s goingto dictate a whole different business plan than a gentleman whocomes into the business and says, “Look: Not only do I want tobe the provider but I want to prepare for the next 15 to 20 yearsand to retirement. Plus, I want my wife to be able to stay at homeand to never have to say “Yes” or “No,” to her from a budgetperspective.” I hope that make sense?

Hutch: It does. When you look at those multi-milliondollar earners and six-figure earners on your team John, are therecore values that you see in each and every one of them? And, ifso, what are those core values?


John: I believe one of the biggest core values, and certainly I’mdirecting this conversation toward the team that we’ve puttogether, is servant leadership. A mentor of mine and Darcy’s wasa gentleman by the name of Paul J Meyer http://www.success-motivation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25and one of the things I'm really working hard on in the next fewyears is how to learn to truly give back. I'm doing it now. I wantto be a pillar in my community and in my church. I want to be adifference maker but the biggest thing I see with people who aresuccessful from the direct sales perspective is servant leadership.

You become a great student to be a great teacher and once youbecome a great teacher, you give back by helping those studentsbecome teachers. A lot of people want to create followers; that'sfalse leadership, crap leadership. A true leader has no probleminvesting into the strengths and interests of his students, hopingthat they’ll become better leaders than him or herself.

Hutch: John, let’s talk more about mindset. What arethe most important attitudes and states of mind that a newassociate, a new member on your team needs to develop today ifthey want to increase their earning income?

John: You have to learn to employ yourself. We talked a little bitabout that earlier; you go from a W-2 mindset to 1099 mindset.I believe in every single one of us is an entrepreneurial spirit. Ibelieve we were purposed to be entrepreneurs. Unfortunately, wecome into a world that’s a little bit different.

One of my favorite scriptures, Hutch — I know you know it —is “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” Proverbs 23:7,KingJames Version (KJV)


While people are getting a fire hose in the ear of what the worldthinks are good values — what Hollywood says, what thebillboard says, what the magazine says — they better be feedingtheir mind. That's why personal development is so critical. Whatare the books that you’re reading? What are the tapes that you’relistening to? What are you feeding your mind that will keep youstrong and acting for your true self versus the self the worldthinks you should be? It’s important because your defaultmechanism is always going to go back to how you think andbelieve, not about yourself but the environment that you mightbe in. That's the mindset that I believe is absolutely critical andit goes back to that never-ending search for the best that’s withinevery single one of us.

I'm still striving for the best that’s within me and I testify thatthe greatest personal development book I’ve ever read is the Bible.I make an effort to be in it every single morning because of thetreasures and the principles that it teaches me about life. MylesMunroe, one of the greatest teachers with leadership principles,is also good to read. I have almost every one of his books in mylibrary.

If I were to walk into your house Hutch, I know one of the firstthings I would see would be a library because when I’m in yourcar, the things I see in your player or on your iPod or your smartphone are information from some of the great teachers. We’reconstantly programming our minds for what we’re capable ofdoing and not for what the world thinks we should do.

Hutch: John, what aspect of LegalShield’s businessmodel do you see evolving and why?

John: One of the aspects and some of the things I see evolvingis in the recent acquisition from MidOcean Partners, a private


equity firm that bought the company a couple of years ago.http://www.midoceanpartners.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?ID=10899I see the branding and marketing initiatives evolving in a majorway. That's important for our company because we’re stillpioneering an industry and 90% to 95% of the people have noidea that there's an alternative to high-priced attorneys; they don’trealize that equal justice is not equal until you have equal access.So, the branding, and the marketing initiatives as we continue tocarry this message forward will become a big impactor for usgoing to 4%, 5%, 6% and 7% market penetration in the next fiveto 10 years.

Hutch: John, has mobile or social networks affectedyour business?

John: They’ve affected our business in a couple of ways. Numberone, it's a time killer for folks. They don't understand how toinvest their time properly and so they confuse activity withproductivity and they get caught up in the different aspects ofsocial media. At the same time, it can become a positive impactorwhen used properly. I think that the paradigm shift is toward theutilization of social media as something that can benefittraditional business but it's an ever-changing dynamic with twosides to it. It can work for you and it can work against you; learnhow to make it work for you.

Hutch: John, as an athlete, a Division One basketballplayer and knowing you personally, I know that mental toughnessis part of your makeup. How do you help your new teammatesdevelop that mental toughness?

John: By setting them up for realistic expectations. In other


words, there are two sides of the equation: the price and promise.Let me first talk about the promise. In our company, I can trulytalk about financial independence and time freedom becausewe’re a company that has delivered; 170 people have becomemulti-millionaires with the company. This isn’t a beta test. We’vecrossed the chasm so what I’m saying is this: The promise offinancial independence and time freedom is real; we can compressin 3-5 years what it might take people 30 years to do, because ofthe timing.

I would be remiss if I didn't talk about the price. The price is thatthere are a host of things that have to take place. You’ve got toget into the trenches. You’ve got to buy sweat equity. You’ve gotto be consistently persistent. You’ve got to know that the forcesof evil are going to come around to take you out; these could bethe no-show people, the dream stealers, the people who say thatthey’re going to make the run with you and then they go missingin action or some other negative experience or obstacle. You’vegot to know all these things.

So, as a team trainer and leader, you need to set people up forrealistic expectations and say, “Look, the view from the top of Mt.Everest is absolutely breathtaking, it's unbelievable, but let metalk about what the climb is going to look like.”

There's going to be times when we’re going to be in the deathzone, when we’re going to be deprived of oxygen, when we’re sickas a dog. But, if we continue to press on, we’ll eventually reachthe summit. Is the journey worth it? You’ve got to make thatdecision in your mind because if the journey is not worth it herewith you, then you’re going to be pursuing someone else's journey.So, let’s discipline ourselves here versus being disciplined bysomeone else and know that while we’re sitting around the table,what we’ll be talking about is the climb and not the view.


Hutch: Great metaphor. Awesome. John, are therecommon things that you find associates do that you knowimmediately are going to guarantee their failure? It’s kind of likewe see our kids; we want to shield them and we know that if theyhead in a certain direction, they’re going to fall. But are therethings you see associates do at times that, if they continue, youknow that’s going to 100% guarantee their failure?

John: Yeah. It’s limitation thinking; if they don't ever reallyovercome what their possibilities are and they live in the worldof limitations. The other thing I see is that people get too caughtup listening to other people and Hutch, it’s what we call the Lawof Associates. If they don't change their associations and getaround people that buy into what their vision and their futurecould look like then they’re going to be subject to the vision andfuture of the associations that they have. If they are not willingto change those things, to get around the right associations andto tie in personal development and possibility thinking, thenforget about it.

Hutch: Great. John, what are the biggest timemanagement mistakes people working at home make?

John: There are a lot of distractions that can come from home.Number one, for people that are listening that are married, makesure that you have a complete buy-in from your spouse; part ofthe purpose of marriage is agreement and you need to have yourteam — your wife and children — in agreement with what thatcommitment needs to be.

I've been able to office out of my home for 25 years. My wife, anamazing entrepreneur and one of the top women in this


profession, works out of our home too. We’ve been able to makeit work because we learned to respect and understand what thecommitments are to a business like this and recognize that,because we work out of our home, it doesn’t mean we can treatthe business any less. In other words treat your business like thebusiness that it is and be committed to everything that it takesto build it. Look at your key performance indicators, staycommitted to that and great things will happen.

Hutch: How do you organize and structure your day?Walk me through morning, afternoon and evening, if you will.What's a typical day? How do you organize it?

John: My typical day would be… I get up in the morning, go tothe deck and I have some time “in the Word.” I then come in andI'll have some time, with my wife. I then go to my office wheremy priorities and my task list are; I put them together the nightbefore. I have a good idea of what needs to be taking place fromthe planning I did the night before — the people I need to talkto, the appointments that I may have set, etc. In my office, I’mtypically working the phones and that means prospecting newbusiness as well as working with the team that we have; we havea fairly sizable team and there are some other duties that kind ofcome with that.

In the midst of my day, I will typically work out. I like to staycommitted to being as healthy as possible; my body is the templeof the Holy Spirit and I need to take care of that and I believethat’s an important priority. Sometimes I’ll do it first thing in themorning, but my point being, I want to get that workout. I’llcome back in with renewed energy, go through the afternoon andthen certain evenings, I have conference calls with the teams.Certain evenings, I have a date with my wife. Certain evenings,we’ll have other commitments with our children’s events and


things like that. Does that make sense? Does that kind of helpthere?

Hutch: It does, absolutely. And then how do youmeasure your own effectiveness John?

John: I think the effectiveness comes with what the results looklike. ZigZiglar said, “When you help enough people get whatthey want, life will get you what you want.” So my effectivenesscomes with my coaching and my mentoring of the people on theteam; my effectiveness comes when I see them advance andachieve their short-term goals, which are obviously things thatwill move then towards their long-term goals.

If I’m not seeing positive cause-and-effect, then I don't feel I’mdoing the right thing. There is a reflection in the numbers; thenumbers don't lie and so every week, every month, we’re able toreflect on the numbers and on the production. Again, don’tconfuse activity with productivity. Sometimes people do that.

Hutch: And for that new person that’s getting startedJohn, what’s the process that you use to decide who to call, whoto contact? I imagine a lot of people may be sitting at their desksand saying, “Who do I contact?”

John: In what I call the “game plan interview,” when I'm sittingdown with a new person we're personally working togther…That’s he and I. The key word here is “we” never “I.” It’s “we.” Wego at this two by two. In the game plan interview, they areresponsible for bringing to that meeting a list of the people theyknow; we call it the warm market list. This is critical for anybodyin this profession. What I teach folks is those are the people you


have credibility with and I’m going to teach you how to marry itto my time and knowledge. Four key words come into play. Theircredibility and contacts, my time and knowledge. I help themunderstand what we do is the exact same thing that you have todo if you are in the real estate profession, if you were in thesecurities profession, or even if you were a doctor opening up anoffice after you got your medical degree from one of the topuniversities in the country. You still have to advertise what youdo. But because you’ve got credibility with your contacts, thoseare the people who are your warm market and, at times, will notonly want to help and listen to you but will also be some of yourbiggest dream-stealers. We set that up properly but we gothrough it together. I teach him how we set the appointments,how we educate people on the business that we’re in and how toask questions so they can get the desired result that they’relooking for.

Hutch: John, how has this business enabled you tobecome the personal-best version of yourself ? Here is thequestion behind the question; you come from a lineage of trialattorneys and your business is undercutting traditional attorneys;am I correct?

John: Yes.

Hutch: So, inherently, you’ve had to fight through thatlegacy and what I'm asking is how has it enabled you to becomethe best you? I think at the end of our days, this is my belief, andwe get to heaven or we’re on our way, we’re going to be asked bySaint Peter: How were you the best you?

John: Okay.


Hutch: And I’m asking how has this business enabledyou to become the best you?

John: Okay, I get you. I track with you better now. It goes backto what I said about Walt Disney and so, here's how it’s helpedme: We make a difference in people's lives. Our customers worryless, they live more; in other words, they get peace of mindbecause we have undercut the competition. Instead of $300 anhour, we market our service for basically $300 a year; we’re in thepeople business. Life is all about the people business and what’shelped me — and it goes back to something I mentioned aminute ago too Hutch — was that I learned quite a while agothat when we can help people get in life what they want, we’llultimately get what we want.

What has helped me in regards to becoming my personal-bestme is the concept of servant leadership. This business has led meto people like John Maxwell http://www.johnmaxwell.com/, agreat teacher. Brad Stevens, a young coach who has achievedsome great, great things in Division One basketball. Someoneonce asked him, “What do you attribute your success to CoachStevens?” He said, “I read the books the other great coacheswrite.” I think that's what has helped me in that search for mypersonal best is to become a student of some of the best of thebest and not just become a student but put those things in toaction so that someday, I can impact other people's life.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_StevensAnd so, not just my relationship with Christ but everything elsethat the business has brought this way has helped me strivetoward those things.

Hutch: What are you most looking forward to in the


future John?

John: Continuing to grow. I continue to look toward the futurein a whole host of ways. Learning to give back. Learning how toteach the next generation of leaders to achieve everything theyare capable of achieving. I’m looking forward to the empty nestside of things with my wife; our children and their next seasonsof life. I’m looking forward to our company moving in to 5% and7% market penetration. More than anything, I’m looking forwardto learning to give back and invest into the potential that so manyothers have as they move toward their dreams and desires.

Hutch: What's going to be your legacy? How wouldyou like to be remembered?

John: I guess… In generations to follow… The glorious riches inChrist is something I want to have moved through my childrenand children's children; for them to know the glorious riches ofChrist because when they do, they will be introduced to theiroriginal intent; they will be introduced to their true self andanytime you’re introduced to what you were created for, you’ll bea world changer.

As a husband, as a father, as a friend, I would like people to beable say, “Heloved, he cared, he smiled andhe lived life to thefullest. He was a leader. He made a difference.”

Those are a few things I’d like to hopefully have said one day.People will forget what you said, what you did, but people willnever forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou, I believe,said that and I’d like people to remember how I made them feelsomeday. http://mayaangelou.com/


Hutch: How can our listeners get to know you betterJohn? Do you have a Web site. Is there a way that people can findout more about you?

John: We have a Web site called PremierSolutionsIntl.com. Wedo a purpose and principles blog that people can participate in.http://www.premiersolutionsintl.com/

Hutch: Any final words of wisdom, John? Whatwould you give to a brand new person getting started?

John: Enjoy the journey. That’s what I would tell everybody.Enjoy the journey and know that that journey is going to makeof you some amazing, amazing things. Be thankful for everythingthat life brings. Hutch, I’m thankful today for our opportunityto spend time together, which started over 20 years ago, and if Ihadn’t been engaged in the journey as you were as a youngentrepreneur, with all the great things you've accomplished, ourpaths would have never crossed. It is because of those trials andtribulations and an amazing walk in the wilderness and thejourney that we have been able to do and have today the differentthings that we have, including relationships like this.

Hutch: Any advice you give to a leader trying to getto the next level?

John: I think Ray Kroc said this: “When you're green, you’regrowing; and then when you're ripe, you start to rot.” In order toget to the next level, continue to have a zest for growing and bewilling to look in the mirror with humility and a heart's desire


to truly serve.

Hutch: Okay my friend, that’s it; that's a wrap.

John: Hopefully, I was alright.

Hutch: No, not hopefully. It was out of the park good;lots of nuggets. I think you’re going to love our interview. I knowI did. Great stuff. You were spot on, John. You are an inspirationto many including me. I know that the words of this interviewwill inspire others and take them and their families to newheights. I’m proud of you! Keep up the awesome work and I’llsee you soon. Thank you.

John: Thank you! I appreciate it. Let me know how I can help tomake this book and your Days for Girls project rock. I will getthis information out there.


Chapter #5 Donna Johnson

Enhancing Lives. Creating Financial Peace. Making a Difference.

~ Donna Johnson

ArbonneExecutive National Vice President

www.spiritwings.com

Hutch: I’m honored that Dana Collins brought ustogether. I told Dana there are no accidents. I’m pleased tointroduce my guest Donna Johnson. Donna is Arbonne’s firstNational Vice President. She is a loving mom to five amazingchildren. Donna, welcome.

Donna: Thank you Michael.

Hutch: I know you’ve been with Arbonne since 1987.I read that you grew up in the Midwest. Why don’t you tell ourlisteners your story about your upbringing? If you want to,highlight anything unique. Any particular peaks or valleys?

Donna: Oh, I had quite an interesting upbringing. I grew upright outside of Green Bay, Wisconsin. So, yes, I am an officialcheese head. My father worked in a local paper mill as a printer;


my mom was a stay-at-home mom to me, an older brother andthen three younger brothers; it was a normal blue-collarupbringing but I knew there was always something wrong withmy dad; I really didn’t quite understand it. I was afraid of himand didn’t know that that was not normal to have that kind ofrelationship. He ended up leaving our family when I was 13 togo off to California and become a millionaire; never sent anymoney to our family, just told people that the state would takecare of us. It turned out later that he had been diagnosed withschizophrenia and he died young.

My brothers and I grew up quite quickly and I always had a lotof things on my plate because my mom had a nervousbreakdown; she was very… wasn’t able to function. In fact Iremember my youngest brother Dan saying to me that heremembers thinking that I was his mom because I was raisinghim and taking care of everybody. The good news is she is greattoday. I have a wonderful stepfather but my brother and I wereforced to basically work full-time to help put food on the table.At the same time, if you’ve ever heard the quote: “How you doanything is how you do everything,” that was me. I had this reallyincredible work ethic and a lot of energy. I was really blessed withhaving high energy because when I look back at everything I didI am like, “Wow!” I mean, I was going to school. I was workingfull-time at all different kinds of odd jobs to give money to mymom and feed my brothers and myself. I remember lots of mealswere just toast.But at the same time, I was actually a competitiveswimmer and I competed on a national level. I would sometimesget to the gym or to the pool at 4.00 am. I also was the presidentof the Pep Club; I emceed all the Pep rallies. So, you can kind ofsee this pattern of leadership that I had in me.

I made two decisions back then: I knew that I did not want to bemy dad. I also knew I didn’t want to be my mom. I didn’t want tobe left not having any skills or means so I quickly set goals toreally take care of myself. I went back and coached the girls’ swim

Chapter #5 Donna Johnson126

team at the high school that I graduated from and my typingteacher, when he would see me as a coach, he’d say, “You still holdthe records.” For several years I held the records for swimmingand also for typing. And the reason I bring that story up isbecause when I met with my guidance counselor, he basically toldme that I was not college material and that since I was such agreat typist, I would be a wonderful secretary. And so years laterwhen I became successful, I got word from his daughter that hewas actually quite smitten and proud of me that I had gone offto become quite a success even though I didn’t have a collegedegree.

So to step into direct sales network marketing was such a simplefeat for me. When I was introduced to the business, I was a singlemom with three small children — no child support — and Iknew that this was the profession for me because I could transfereverything I learned from swimming and coaching and being thePep Club President and emceeing Pep rallies. I just… that wasinside of me and I knew it was a great fit. I’m so grateful that Ifound this profession; I love it. I tell people that I’m completelyunemployable and I actually challenge people to challenge methat I don’t have the best job in the world. I had someone answerand say, “Well gosh, Oprah has got a pretty cool job; she is onthe cover of her magazine every month.”And I said, “Well then,what I love about this business is that I can become successful,grow as a person in every area of my life but also share this giftwith other people so they can become extraordinary leaders aswell. And I’m so grateful that I have a business that I canduplicate and share with other people and that’s what keeps megoing after all these years.” A lot of people say, “Gosh, Donna,you could retire.” I could but I’m having way too much fun.

Hutch: I want to get to know you a little better. Youhad to take care of your brothers and your mom. What made you


so unique, Donna, at such an early age? Other than your mom,who were some of your mentors? You were a competitiveswimmer. Was it your coach? I’m trying to get a sense of whatmade you so unique so early on in life. Where do you draw thatinspiration from?

Donna: I really didn’t; it was something inside of me, you know.This is obviously pre-Internet and I didn’t really learn or knowabout personal development. It was something inside of me. Ithink I was very driven when I would start lowering myswimming times; it was so motivating for me that I really wentall in. You know what I mean? It’s hard to explain but I wasdriven by the competition and bettering myself. Competing on astate level and then saying, “Oh my gosh! If I work harder, I cancompete at a national level.” So, I had that work ethic to wake upin the frigid Wisconsin winters and head to the gym while it wasstill dark out and swim. I’m sure people are giving you profoundanswers but I had this really strong desire and I thought thateverybody was wired that way.

Over the years, I have come to learn that people have to reallywork on that area — and don’t get me wrong, there is lots of areasthat I work on and continue to work on — but energy issomething that I’ve been blessed with; even to this day, my fiancéThomas will say to me, “Where do you get all your energy?”So, ifyou take care of yourself, I think success is on all levels; spiritually,physically, emotionally; all those things combined. It creates whoyou are as a person.

Hutch: You also had somebody that was the naysayer— this guidance counselor — which was unfortunate yetfortunate because obviously you turned it around. But did youhave any mentors growing up Donna; any coaches, perhaps, otherthan your mom?


Donna: I would say growing up in the Vince Lombardi era andbeing a huge Green Bay Packers fan, there was this aura aboutthat team. I mean, here is the smallest market and a town of lessthan a 100,000 people with a lot of pride. Sunday mornings, itwas football. I’m a big cheese head to this day.

Hutch: True.

Donna: I follow and I think that I pull a lot of analogies frommy experience in this business from the culture that the Packershave created. So, I would say, in my early years, it was the GreenBay Packers and the pride and commitment that came to thededication of your sport.

Hutch: You said you were a single mom. What was the definingreason to become an entrepreneur and part of the networkmarketing and direct selling profession?

Donna: I’ll tell you what: Hunger is! Being hungry!

Hutch: Yes.

Donna: I was coaching swimming.

Hutch: Okay.

Donna: I was coaching on the YMCA level, high school leveland for a couple of years I actually coached a college team. Andif you are familiar with coaching, you do not do it for the money.


Hutch: Sure.

Donna: So, I had to put food on the table. I had three smallchildren—five, seven and nine. I thank my ex husband, becausehe worked it out on paper that we made the same amount ofmoney and so there was no child support. I had a family that said,“Why don’t you go get a real job because, if this doesn’t work, wecan’t bail you out?”

Hutch: I’m sorry, Donna. Can I interrupt for a secondplease?

Donna: Yes.

Hutch: When you said you thanked your ex, forworking it out on paper that you made the same amount ofmoney… I’m trying to understand that?

Donna: I guess I’m being sarcastic, I actually…

Hutch: Got it, okay.

Donna: I mean, I’m grateful because what he did… I hadnothing to lean on.

Hutch: Right, wow.


Donna: I didn’t have a spouse’s income. I didn’t have childsupport. I didn’t have a family that could bail me out if it didn’twork. My alternative was going to get that secretarial job that myguidance counselor told me I was perfect for and I really wantedto be there when my kids got home from school. I wanted to bethere in the summer when my kids were home. I just don’t… Idon’t do very well with the 9-5 structure; not that I’m lazy, but Idon’t do bosses and structure very well. So the flexibility thatdirect selling network marketing afforded me really made a lotof sense because I felt like, if I really worked smart and createdrevenue producing activities, I could make this work and I couldhave it all basically. I could arrange my business around my familyschedule, instead of my family having to revolve around my worklife and I could really write my own paycheck; when you do thisbusiness, you don’t walk into a personnel director’s office and say,“Okay, what is the pay?” You determine that and I loved that; Iloved that part of it.

A lot of people don’t understand it because they’re so used totrading hours for dollars and they think that that’s job securitybut I didn’t see it that way. I thought, “Oh my gosh. I want to bea stay-at-home mom. So, how can I be a stay-at-home mom andstill pay the rent?” It’s funny because I set my goal back in 1987to make $5,000 a month and I did that within six months in mybusiness. That was 26 years ago. I remember my business wasgrowing then, my income was growing and so after about a yearor two of doing my business, I took the big, brave, bold step: Iwas going to buy a house. [sarcastically] And oh my gosh! Singlemoms that didn’t have child support, or a J-O-B, who were justover broke… Gosh! In Appleton, Wisconsin, you didn’t do that.You just didn’t go buy a house! So, not only was I buying a house,I researched the area I wanted to live, the school that I wantedmy kids to go to and I was buying a doctor’s home.


Hutch: Oh wow, very cool.

Donna: And I have a funny story about that. So, my stepfatherwho… I don’t want to say he was a dream stealer but he was oneof those in the camp of “Why don’t you go get a real job?”Anyway, my stepfather — he worked at a bank — went to theloan officer and said, “Hey, Donna is going to come in to try andget a loan for this house and we think she’s in way over her head.She should get a nice little house and not this big, doctor’s house.”And so, I didn’t know that happened and I walked in to this guyDanny’s office. I’ll never forget this guy. And I had all the paperwork in my hand and I said, “This is the house I want to buy.”He looked at me about as condescending as you can imagine. Iwas about maybe 29 at the time and he looked at me and he said,“Oh sure it is, Sweetie. Of course,” Very condescending like, “Isn’tthat nice that you want this big house?” And so, long story short,my paperwork comes back and I actually get the financingapproved and he went to my stepfather and he said, “Not onlydid she qualify for this home, she could have actually spent moreon a home but she was being frugal with her money.”

Hutch: That’s an awesome story. Good on you!

Donna: That story has been fun because it shattered a lot of thenegative mindsets about what you can accomplish in life and howyou accomplish your success.

Hutch: True, Donna let’s focus on the listener thatmight be in the business less than six months. So, you are a singlemom, raising kids on your own without any assistance. How did


you overcome the overwhelming task of juggling and balancingand prospecting and all that was required to help build yourbusiness?

Donna: Well, that’s a really good question. I didn’t really haveany alternative. I didn’t have a family that could bail me out. Ididn’t have any of that and I totally…You know how TonyRobbins always says, “Some people are more motivated by whatthey don’t want than what they do want?”

Hutch: You’re right.

Donna: I was definitely that person. I was motivated for what Ididn’t want because I knew if I didn’t make this work, I wouldhave to go get a j-o-b and type letters and be a secretary for aliving because that is what I was skilled at and I didn’t want thatso much that I was willing to do what it took. I guess I have toask people, “How hungry are you? How committed are you andwill you make your business a priority?” Because when you’re self-employed, when you have a home-based business where you don’thave a boss, when you get up and look in the mirror, you’relooking at the boss. Sometimes that’s the good news andsometimes that’s the bad news because you can put yourself outof business.

So, one of the things I teach — it’s so simple, Michael — is tohave a daily to-do list and I’ve always been good at discipliningmyself to do the things that I say that I’m going to do. Whensomeone shows you who they are, believe them. That’s how I wasin high school, dedicated to my swimming; that’s how I was inevery avenue in my life. I thought that it was normal to make to-do lists and then check everything off. So, what I do is I make ato-do list but I put a line in the middle so that at the top of theline is everything that I’m absolutely committed to doing, no


matter what, that day. I always make sure that I have revenue-producing activities on there. Making the appointments, seeingthe people, showing the product, showing the business, doingyour appointments, scheduling them, holding them — those areall on the top part of the to do list. Underneath the line are thingsthat you could possibly not get to. So, if you can’t get to thoseitems on the bottom, it’s not a deal breaker; you can either doit…Rita Davenport always calls it the four Ds: You can Do it,Delegate it, Dump it or Delay it. Do it, Delegate it, Dump it orDelay it. http://www.ritadavenport.com/

One thing I counsel parents on a lot is that parenting is aboutraising your children to be self-sufficient. To delegate things toyour family that they could do for themselves is really important.I remember when my son went off to college. He said, “Mom,these kids don’t know how to do laundry.” You are not failing“Parent-Of-The-Year” if you ask your children to do things andhelp around the house. Just say, “Hey, we’re all part of the family.You guys have to…” I always told my sons, “Your wives are goingto thank me someday because you’re learning how to cook, you’relearning how to clean, you’re learning how to do the laundry.”And it wasn’t because I was lazy; it was simply that we all chippedin and I think that it’s so important to understand that you candelegate things to your family; you don’t have to be super womanor a super hero.

Hutch: I love that. So many people, whether they’rein direct sales, network marketing or any business, don’tdistinguish between the to-do list and a must-do list. I love thatcounsel that you’ve delivered. I think it’s a major takeaway. Buteven more important is your focus on what you described asrevenue-producing activities. So many people get through theirday and think they did a lot but they weren’t necessarilyproductive.


Donna: Right.

Hutch: They had lots of activities and checked a lotof items off but I really appreciate the focus on the revenue-producing activities as those profitable activities that help to growthe business as opposed to those that aren’t. In those first sixmonths, was there a defining moment when you look back,Donna, and think that maybe there was a prospect that youbrought into the business or an obstacle that you had to overcomethat gave you a tremendous sense of confidence moving forwardor one that made such a big difference? Or were you completelyshut down those first six months? I’m trying to get a sense ofthose first six months again.

Donna: Oh, no. I’ll tell you what: I was like Dory in the movie…Finding Nemo, right?

Hutch: Right.

Donna: I absolutely was 100% committed. I had huge belief andso, I jumped all in. I didn’t dip my toe in the water to see, “Wellmaybe this will work, maybe it won’t.” Let me tell you somethings I did that I look back on and I’m like, “Gosh!” I was ayoung woman in my mid-twenties with this huge work ethic anddedication; I mean, some of the things I did, I shake my headlike, “Wow!” I could afford it and I hired someone to clean myhouse every week. I could not afford it but I hired someone tocome over one afternoon a week to do my paperwork and helpme get my orders in, some of the non-revenue-producing thingsthat took me away from seeing people, scheduling appointments,doing presentations… So, I made those decisions early on in my


business when most people would have said, “Well, when youstart making some money, when the money starts coming in thenyou can get someone to clean your house, then you can get someclerical help or whatever.” I did those things right out of the chuteand I figured that I did a lot of my appointments in the eveningand while most people might think, “Oh gosh. But that’s yourtime with your children,” I had a really good system; I figured,you know what: I work during the day and then when they gothome from school, I was dedicated to them, I would drive themaround to their practices and games and all the stuff they weredoing. I’d pick up the sitter after… we’d make some dinner —the kids would help with the dishes — and she would kind ofoversee the homework and then I would say, “Okay, I’ll see youin a couple of hours. Mom is going to work.” I didn’t have anyguilt about it because I figured, instead of working an eight hourday at an office, I had my schedule a little different than most ofthe neighbors.

Hutch: Sure.

Donna: I have a funny story because my company gives outwhite Mercedes Benz’ and I… when I started my business, I hadan old clunker; it was an old, beat up, Plymouth Duster; it wasall rusty. I bet I only spent a couple of a hundred dollars for thatcar. It was a wreck but I knew that “this too shall pass” because Iknew I was going to be qualifying for my Mercedes. One time,my oldest son Nathaniel — I think he was nine — we were goingto the grocery store and we were driving in this old, beat up carand you know how the kid comes and helps you out with yourgroceries? As he is filling the car, my son looks at me, he looks atthe car, he looks at this kid and he says really loud so the kid canhear him. He says, “Mom, when did you say our Mercedes wascoming in?” I used that opportunity to sit down with my son andsay, “Look, I know we’re struggling right now but Mom’s working


really hard to build her business and I totally believe this is goingto work and we’re going to be able to pay the bills, we’re going tobe able to…we’ll have a new car but this is going to take sometime and this is going to take some sacrifice from me to really dowhat I need to do.”

I share with people that I raised all five of my children with themwatching their mom work from home. They watched my peopleskills. They watched how I interacted. They watched how Ihandled my disappointments and how I overcame obstacles andhow I set goals. That prepared them more for life than anythingelse I could have modeled as a mom. I think they’re allentrepreneurs now. I didn’t raise them to be entrepreneursnecessarily. They all are either in college or graduated and havethat education but they didn’t go there thinking that they weregoing to go look for a job; I raised them to follow their passionand that’s what they are doing now.

Hutch: That’s awesome. Congratulations. That’samazing. Two-part question: In the early days, how did youchange people’s perceptions, Donna, of the direct sales / networkmarketing profession. Has that changed as to where you aretoday?

Donna: I think one of the best ways that you can affect thereputation of the profession is to model. Model your bestbehavior to be attractive. I always loved what I did and thoughtit was a fabulous business and a great product and a great way tobuild a business and that came across to people. “Wow. She trulybelieves in what she’s doing. She knows she’s helping people.” So,if you model a positive experience, I think that’s going to furtherthe good reputation of the business and the profession.

I always tell people: “Don’t build your business on hype and don’t


over-promise. This business is good enough on its own. It doesn’tneed embellishment. People want to know that they can trust youand that you’re authentic and that you’re telling them the truth.”I tell people, “You’re going to work hard and, in the beginning,it’s going to feel like you’re not making enough for your efforts.But, I promise you that if you dedicate yourself and stick to it,good things are going to happen and, as your routine grows andyour business grows and your skills grow, your paycheck is goingto grow too.” Just don’t give up before payday; too many peoplegive up before payday.

Hutch: Sure. And if you were counseling someonenew to the business on strategies, Donna, to overcome rejection,overcome disappointments, what would you suggest?

Donna: Well, here’s the thing: I’ve always found that a fullcalendar is magical. If you’ve got a full calendar, you feel soconfident about your business. When your calendar gets a littlesparse or a little empty, that’s when the stress starts to set in; that’swhen the paralysis starts to set in. I call it the two Ps. Whenyou’re stressed, you can do one of two things: You can either getparalyzed or you can get propelled and move forward. Of course,that’s the swimming coach in me; I was the propeller. I was goingto kick and stroke my way to the top. So, a full calendar is anamazing thing because when I did a presentation I would have acalendar and it’d be so full and I’d say, “Oh my gosh. I’m reallyfilled up. Let me see when I can squeeze in time with you.”Which translates to: “Wow. People love this.” It’s similar to you’retrying to get into a really good hair stylist and they’re reallybooked for a long time. So, it’s amazing what a full calendar willdo; knowing that some will, some won’t. So, what’s next?


Hutch: How do you handle someone telling you“No”?

Donna: If someone says, “No,” to me, I don’t take it personallybecause it’s not for everybody. I like to lead with the businessbecause I think the very best thing I have to offer someone is thefinancial independence this business brings but I know it’s notfor everybody. My job is to tell the story. My job is not toconvince anybody. My job is to tell the story and find the fit.Once I tell somebody about this great business and how they cancreate another income stream, I ask them to explore thatpossibility; if it’s absolutely something they’re not interested inI’ll say, “You know what, Michael? I understand the businessmight not be for you. I mean, totally great. But, I’d like you tokeep an eye open if you know someone who is looking foranother income stream. But since you’re not interested in thebusiness, maybe you’d like to host a get together for me. I cangive you some gifts for hosting and can meet some people thatyou know that I don’t know and they can have a productexperience. Let me tell you about this great product.” So, I alwayshave something else to offer them if they say, “No.” To me, “No,”is just, “It’s okay.”

Hutch: How many “No’s” would you say that you’veheard in the last 26 years?

Donna: Well, I don’t know if I could count but it happens andit’s okay because you know it’s part of the process. I think thereis a great book out there called Go for No. http://www.goforno.com/


Hutch: Okay, super.

Donna: And there’s clearly a strategy about understanding thatyou’re going to get some “No” responses.

Hutch: True. I want to come back to the full calendaridea. I love that. If I’m new on your team, how do I know who tocall?

Donna: We have a system for success and even before yourstarter kit comes in we’ve got you doing some homework whereyou’re building out your new contact list. We have a pretty goodsystem where we break it out to make a contact list of localpeople; people that you’ll be inviting to your business launch.

And then you’ll be making a list of long distance people —people in other parts of the state, other parts of the country andeven in the other countries where Arbonne operates: UK,Canada, Australia. Basically, we have two different systems. Onefor those that are local because you’re going to invite them toyour business launches; we typically like to have at least two sothat they have a couple to choose from. So, instead of saying,“Michael, can you come?” we can say, “Michael, I’m launchingmy business. I’m excited to share it and I’m inviting you to mybusiness launch. I’m having two of them — one on Sunday nightand another one on Tuesday night. Which one can you come to?”

So we have a local strategy and then we have a long distancestrategy where we have them work long distance with theirprospect through a one-minute video that we have called We AreArbonne and we share that like news. http://www.youtube.com/user/arbonne


Hey I’ve got news. That’s one of my favorite things for people tolearn is to say, “Hey! I’m calling because I’ve got some news: Doyou have a minute? I’ve started my own home-based business.I’m excited. Can you watch this minute and a half video? I wantyou to see what I’m doing.” And most people will commit to aminute and a half video.

Hutch: True.

Donna: If someone says, “Hey Donna, watch this thirty minutevideo.” Well, I might get to it in the next couple of days. But, ifyou say, “Hey, it would mean the world to me. Would you take alook at the video. I want you to see what I’m doing.” That will beto the prospecting process where, based on their feedback, I willeither send them a packet out about the business or I’ll send thema packet about how they possibly might want to be a customer.

Hutch: In 26 years Donna, did you ever want to quit?

Donna: Oh my goodness, absolutely. I’ll tell you what: It’ssomething that everybody goes through. I think it’s normal tohave feelings of quitting. I’m so grateful I never have. I’vecommitted to my business and to my team for my love of theprofession and the company. We’ve been through some ups anddowns but the solid denominator has been a strong foundationof amazing leaders and I’m really committed to my team.

Hutch: In this business, is there a good time or a goodreason to quit?


Donna: I don’t think that there is because I think the only wayyou can fail is to quit. You can experience some level of benefit.You may not want to go to the top and be a rock star. That’s notfor everybody. But, if you can find out what your needs are andwhere you see yourself and don’t prejudge and don’t limit yourself,you can get the benefit you seek. I have people that have happilybeen in the business for years and years making $500 to $1,000a month and they count on that; they’re not really active on theirbusiness but they love that extra stream of income. Sometimesthere is too much month at the end of the money and, in today’sworld, I can’t imagine people not being curious about addinganother income stream to their family’s budget.

Hutch: True, without a doubt, especially in thesecurrent times.

Donna: Even people that are driving BMWs and Mercedesand… You don’t know what people’s story is. So, don’t everprejudge.

Hutch: You’re right. And those that have been on yourteam and perhaps have left to go to another opportunity: What’sbeen their experience? Is the grass, in fact, greener? Do theytypically do better if they leave? Are they the same or are theyworse? What’s been your experience?

Donna: Honestly, most people that have left my business haveregrets and wish they wouldn’t have.


Hutch: Most people have regrets?

Donna: There have been a couple of people who have left thathave had a positive experience; the majority have not becausewhat they need to work on, to improve on, isn’t necessarily thebusiness or the company. People need to remember that whereveryou go, you take yourself with you. If they do leave, leave withintegrity. I think that’s really important. It’s a great professionand you’ve got to find your tribe. I think Dana Collins said it bestwhen I came to Arbonne, that I found my tribe; I found thepeople that I wanted to be with. We want people to be happy. http://www.arbonne.com/company/opportunity/people/eoa.asp?vp=collins_d_envp

Hutch: If somebody were listening to this andperhaps was on the verge of quitting the business, what wouldtell them to help them perhaps take that next step or stayfocused?

Donna: One of my leaders, Julie Newcomb, always says, “Youcan quit the business for 24 hours.” Give yourself a little pity partyand get back on the saddle; you’re going to have disappointmentsand it’s not…There is another set of four Ds that I have, that Itrain. https://www.facebook.com/julianne.newcomb

Hutch: Okay.

Donna: You’re going to have Doubts, Distractions,Disappointments and Dream-stealers. So, you get to decide howyou respond to those Doubts, Disappointments, Distractions andDream-stealers. You are not going to have a problem free


experience anywhere. In a job, in relationships, it's simply howyou overcome your obstacle.

Rita Davenport used to say, “Write your problem down and putit in a box but then go back to the box and take somebody else'sproblem.” You would definitely want your problem back. So, usethose four D's to become a better person. Get stronger so thedistractions don't get you off-track or the doubts or thedisappointments or the dream-stealers. And one way that youcan turn a dream stealer into an encourager is simply asking themto be an encourager. Let's say it's your spouse. You can go to themand say, “Look, I know that you are not really sure of what I'mdoing but I believe in this, I believe in myself and it would meanthe world if you would encourage me and if I start makingexcuses or justifying or blaming, bust me on it because I knowthat I have to overcome those things to be successful and to stickwith it. And it would mean the world to me if you would be anencourager.” If you ask a loved one to be an encourager, if theyare truly a loved one, they will encourage you. When they see thatbelief and that resolve inside of you, they know that they can'tshake you.

Hutch: True, I love it. I love the whole idea of askingsomebody to encourage you. What a simple concept, but it’s soimpactful. Donna, how have you been able to duplicate your mostsuccessful habits on what you do best?

Donna: I think time reveals everything and I've been consistentin modeling who I am and how I do business. Of course, it'schanged over the years with technology and all of that and we'vecontinued to innovate and adapt. I think this technology hasactually made our business a lot easier to do — our systems, ourway of networking and communicating with people. I haveconsistently modeled my brand so people know who Donna


Johnson is; people know what I stand for and I have consistentlymodeled it for years. If you are consistent, people will trust youbecause they know that they can count on you. Being a personof your word, building your business with integrity, all thosethings, I think, are attractive.

Hype is something that I think can be short lived. If you buildyour business on hype, those are the kinds of people that you aregoing to attract; people that don't really want to work but thatwant to get rich. So, I think modeling the truth and authenticityis an attractive quality in our business. I think it's one of thereasons we've built the network of leaders that we have; becausethey are attracted to that.

Hutch: I love that. I'm an athlete, like you. I playedthree sports in college. As a competitive swimmer and as a coach,you know that mental toughness is important and especiallyimportant in this business. How do you help new associatesdevelop that mental toughness? I mean, you have it; you had itearly on, right from the beginning; but how do you develop it inyour new people?

Donna: I think it's a muscle you exercise and so personaldevelopment is an absolute necessity, every day — whether youare listening to tape or reading at least 15 minutes to reallygrowing as a person. I talk to my leaders all the time that areraising children and they say that their kids have grown up onpersonal development books and CDs and how much it's helpedthem as well.

Hutch: Let me get into some business-buildingstrategies. How have you been able to attract the best people and


how do you assess talent?

Donna: Oh, gosh. Talent to me is more about your level ofrespect and influence than your circle; how small or big yourcircle is doesn't matter. But this is consistent with what I sharedbefore: How do you attract quality people? If you present thisbusiness and product in an honest, ethical manner where you areauthentic, where you tell the whole truth, I think it attracts thatperson that is interested in expanding their life but they don'tlike hype. And so I think that attracts a certain person and that'swhat we've done in our network.

I have built an amazing network of leaders that are so awesomethat I don't need the stage; I mean, I put my leaders up therebecause they shine; they are amazing. And so, I am in the businessof building leaders because that's what I think builds a sustainablebusiness is strong leaders. I mean, I am all over the world. I livepart time in Sweden and if everybody depended on me to runthe business, I would be a basket case because I can't. I've gothundreds of thousands of people in my down line. So, I've builtamazing, incredible leaders and I let them shine. And so... I lookfor people that are people-people. People that you like to bearound them.

Hutch: Do you recruit men, Donna, the same way aswomen?

Donna: I haven't recruited as many men as women. I have to behonest about that. I think our culture and business has attractedmore women than men, but we have a diverse product line — alot of health products, a lot of men's products — and so, over thelast few years, we have had more men to the business; we've hadmore couples, which is great because it's attracting more peoplethat way but I have not personally sponsored many men.


Hutch: Is there anything that you find that is the mostcommon or overlooked that you find new Arbonne associates dothat absolutely, 100%, guarantees their failure?

Donna: Say that again. Do I see people doing things that willnot help them?

Hutch: Correct.

Donna: Yes. That’s a slippery slope. My team calls me the “Velvethammer” because I'm not afraid to speak up. I call it “acceleratedwisdom.” I feel I have a lot of hindsight that can be people'sforesight if they will allow themselves to be taught. And we'veseen a lot of things that people have tried that have not worked.So, if people are willing to hear the stories of what works andwhat doesn't work, then I'm grateful. But oftentimes, they haveto go out and experience that on their own. We've been there,done that and so we like to teach ethics and how to build asustainable business. You don't have to re-invent the wheel. So,we are system oriented, which I think is important and peoplelike that. They don't want to wing it and throw stuff up againstthe wall and see what sticks. They want to have a proven systemand that's what we have to offer people.

Hutch: What aspect of your business do you seeevolving? How do you see Arbonne’s business evolving? First,your business and then Arbonne’s business?

Donna: Well my business is the most of the company and so I


would we are in a good place right now. We have double-digitgrowth in every country.

Hutch: That's fantastic!

Donna: We've been through a lot. We went through restructure,new ownership — lots of things have happened to us throughchanging ownership and leadership — and we've built a reallystrong, closed net group of leaders in the field that has reallyweathered the storm; we've kind of anchored down and nowwe've got lots of growth again. I think people love our successstory, that we have such amazing products and good people thatcan weather any storm. So, I think expanding moreinternationally, the best is yet to come. We are growing. I heardwe’re in the top 20 now in direct sales network marketingcompanies with the DSA. http://www.dsa.org/ So, it's notalways about being the biggest; I believe to meet the quality andthe content of the business is more important than how big wecan get. But I would say, because we care about those things, thatwill cause us to grow big because I think that's what people want.

Hutch: How has this business enabled to you tobecome the best Donna? How has this business enabled you tobecome the personal-best version of yourself ?

Donna: Well, I feel that I have the good fortune of really havingclose relationships with amazing people, including some of thetop authors and trainers around the world who I consider mypersonal friends. And so, it allows me to stay on that path ofpersonal development to grow as a person in every single area ofmy life because we're not done, we have not arrived. For example,I love finding my old dream-boards because they’ve all come true.


I was that way. I would often say, “Hurry, get out of my way. Hereis where I'm going.” I had my Mercedes all picked out. I knewwhich car I was getting. Today I support five orphanages aroundthe world. I always wanted to own a log cabin on the lake. I'vegot my log cabin on the lake right outside of Green Bay. Thosedifferent things that have been on my dream board and it’s socool. I love dream boards and I love this business because itaffords you a vehicle to start dreaming again. So, I'm grateful thatI have had this gift of Arbonne and this business and to have thesuccess I've had but also to be able to pay it forward and offerthis to other people as well. So, it's definitely...What is the saying?“It's not the destination. It's the journey.” It’s definitely a journey.

Hutch: Let's talk about that journey. What are youmost excited about as you look forward to the future?

Donna: Well, I will tell you what: I'm engaged. I'm gettingmarried and Thomas and I are very global. We are all over theworld and so I am looking forward to expanding moreinternationally and continuing to grow as a person, as a leaderand to really help my team step into their greatness — for theleaders they are and are becoming. It's so fun to watch peopleblossom and yeah, it's pretty exciting. Life is good.

Hutch: That's cool. Do you have a wedding date?

Donna: Yes. We are getting married in April.

Hutch: Wonderful. Where will the celebration take place?


Donna: We are actually getting married in Vegas.

Hutch: Okay, very nice. And as you think about whatyour life is going to look in the next few years, what does thatpicture look like?

Donna: I would say it is what it is now. I mean, I love having thefreedom in my life to keep my priorities in order, to be with thepeople I want to be with, to travel, to see the world, to make adifference. My family and I travel every year to either India orAfrica to visit some of the orphanages that we support. The morethat's given, the more is expected and I think serving and payingback is so rewarding.

Hutch: That's awesome. I’m so proud of you. You arestill amazingly young: How will you be remembered, and howwould you like to be remembered?

Donna: My legacy… PetterMorck, our founder, always said youare going to affect the next seven generations and I think of thatnot only in our families, but also in our businesses — thegenerations of people that you affect. I hope that people will lookback, and say that I always was a person of my word and I definedthe field; that I stood for the leaders and was about keeping theculture of our business intact. I want people to know that it’s notfast, fun and easy, that this [building a successful networkmarketing / direct sales business] takes time and you’ve got tofall in love with the product and the business and the people tobuild a sustainable business. People have to get past that “instantgratification mindset that's so prevalent today, that of “What isit going to do for me next week or next month?” mindset. http://directsellingnews.com/index.php/view/arbonne#.Uvr_rShFtps


Hutch: Donna, how can our listeners get to know youbetter? Do you have a personal Web site or is there a companyWeb site?

Donna: My Web site is, www.spiritwings.com. Spirit wings hasinformation about the charities and the business and I also havea Donna Johnson fan page at Facebook.

Hutch: Okay, wonderful. Any parting words ofaccelerated wisdom? What advice would you give to brand newperson getting started? And then the final question: What advicewould you give to a leader trying to get to the next level?

Donna: First of all, the person just entering the business: I metwith somebody yesterday afternoon and the advice that I gaveher was to be coachable and stick with it; don't dip your toe inthe water and say, “Well, if it works it works.” Commit to thiswork and give it time and I promise you, you will have a greatexperience if you give it time and really learn this business, learnhow to overcome obstacles and objections and really grow.

And for the leader, I encourage them to have their short-termgoals. Yes, make your bonus this month; maybe it's getting inqualifications for a trip. Arbonne has incentive trips all the time.But also look forward with a long-range vision of where you seeyourself and really keep growing as a person. I think that's key.Keep going even when you can sit back and say, “Well, I havearrived,” and don’t be satisfied at that; be proud, but not satisfied;a leader cannot quit and still be a leader.

That happened to me a few years ago. I was stuck at $50,000 a


month and I thought: Oh my Gosh. I am making $50,000 a month.That's really cool. Who makes that, right? That’s gangster money. Butour founder, Peter Morck really had such great vision and he tookme to the woodshed and he said, “Donna, do you want peoplemaking what you are making?” I said, “Absolutely.” He said,“Well, then you’re going to be making $100,000 a month andyou need to keep raising the bar and moving because this is toogood of a product and business for you not to have even moresuccess. You can do so much more to help people with thatamount of money, so don't get stuck.” And a short time later afterthat, I started — that was several years ago — earning $100,000a month and my income has never dropped below that. So,helping to be a visionary and raise the bar for other people asPeter did for me is crucial for a growing, rising leader. I hadlimited thinking during that period of my life before thatconversation with Peter and I really had to think outside of thebox and open up my mind for more possibility.

Hutch: This has been such a great interview; so manynuggets. I can't help but to think how lucky I am to have thistime with you and I hope that the references of your life — beingtold that you probably wouldn’t amount to much and that yourtyping skills will probably be your key to success — in a positiveway, that somebody gets to experience those same negativereferences but uses them the way that you've done to positivelytake yourself to entirely a different level.

Is there anything else that you want me to ask Donna? Anythingyou else you would like to share?

Donna: I think we’ve covered a lot. The story of my upbringing,my challenges, they’ve helped me with what I call the “feel, feltand found.” When people say I don't really know if I can startthis business because I really don't have any money right now


and I don't have any resources to get money right now and I'mstrapped. I know how they feel; I felt that way too. But here iswhat I found: In this business, it’s more about your sweat equity,than it is your finances. So, if you're willing to pour yourself intothis business, this isn't a franchise where you’ve got to investupwards of $100,000 to open it.

Hutch: I think your team and our readers are goingto love our interview. Donna, you are an inspiration to manyincluding me. I am optimistic our interview will inspire othersand take them and their families to new heights. Keep up thegreat work! Again, I’m so grateful for Dana Collins making thisintroduction. I’m proud of you and I’ll see you soon.


Chapter #6 John McLelland

Success is almost always based on inconvenience.

~ John McLelland

Nu Skin EnterprisesFour Star Team Elite Blue Diamond PresidentialDirectorChief Ambassador of Nourish the Children

www.JohnMcLelland.com

Hutch: We met formally when you were launchingiLearningGlobal.TV. There were so many of my friends involvedwith you, including Tom Murphy, Brian Tracy, Tony Allesandraand Brian Biro. Brian and I worked together at Tony Robbins’company. I recall Rob Deboer from Columbia, South Carolina.Do you remember Rob?

John: Of course.

Hutch: You and your son JD made a very positiveimpact on me. John,I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you.You are a Blue Diamond Presidential Director for publicallytraded Nu Skin Enterprises. You’ve been married for 40 years toyour beautiful bride, have six children and five grandchildren.


Plus, you are the Chief Ambassador for Nourish the Children. Iknow that giving back and contributing to others is so importantto who you are. I was excited to learn that your team has provided300 million meals to starving, malnourished children. That’s thereason we’re doing this book; to help these girls and women viaDays for Girls that don’t have access to feminine hygieneproducts. John, I’m honored to speak with you. Welcome!

John: Well, thank you very much. It’s my pleasure to be here.One exciting update to my bio is that Nourish the Children hasnow delivered more to 350 million meals.

Hutch: Beautiful!

John: …to starving children throughout the world as of our lastaudit. And I have a title at the company of Four Star Team Elite.The one title I’m most proud of is Chief Ambassador of Nourishthe Children.

http://www.nuskin.com/en_US/culture/nourish_the_children.html

Hutch: Awesome. Thank you for that clarification.Tell us about your upbringing. What was it like to grow up JohnMcLelland?

John: I grew up just loving every day. While there were toughtimes, I didn’t know there was any better life than the one I had.I lived in a lower-middle class neighborhood. I had hard workingparents. They married young, around the age of 17, and had acouple of kids before 20. They worked hard in their marriage andwere committed to hold our family together. They are still happilymarried after all these years.

Chapter #6 John McLelland156

Hutch: Wow.

John: The neighborhood we lived in was a melting point ofpeople that had moved from different countries. There weredifferent races and religions and that became important to me tohave an understanding to not only practice tolerance towardsothers but to expect it back; and to be able to communicatewithout worry or fear of offending someone. We all got alongvery well.

I think my first real appreciation of that diverse culture camefrom the first coaches that started to coach me in baseball,football and basketball. Many of them were Greek and they hada style; very passionate about what they did. They’d say, “Practicedoesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.” They knewthe difference, even back then, about teaching and coachingstyles; mechanical learning versus visual learning. They realized Iwas a visual learner; one who learned from watching somebodyand imitating that and the main thing I learned from the coachesand my parents was hard work. So, I give them so much creditfor instilling in me a strong work ethic. They’d say, “Hard workbeats talent when talent does not work hard.”

The two things that my parents gave me, and they knewinstinctively, was that they wanted their children to have a betterlife than they did and they wanted us to pass that on to our kids.They didn’t necessarily expect us to be Rhode Scholars or evenget full scholarships to college. But, I can tell you that they helpedus by teaching us the ability to communicate, the ability to speakproperly, the ability to have good manners; also, to be a positiveperson on this earth and that was important.

My mother would wake up early in the morning and go cleanhouses. Years later, I realized that the Wig Shop in SLC Utah


that we cleaned was owned by the very lady who became one ofthe first distributors for Nu Skin: Clara McDermott.

https://www.nuskin.com/corpcom/en_US/thesource/featuredarticle/insights_from_claramcdermott.html

My father worked two or three jobs much of the time I wasgrowing up. I would wait for him to come home from his job thathe started at around 1:00 a.m. and he would get home at about1:00 p.m. I was always so excited for Dad to get home. I lovedhim. We’d play a little one-on-one basketball or throw a footballaround for fifteen minutes or so but it was a highlight of my day— the little conversation that went on — and then he would goin and grab a bite to eat, spend some time with my mother, takea nap and go to his next job. He would do this day after day sothat we could have nice things, fun vacations and nice clothes.At one point, my father, in the midst of his three jobs, put themall on hold. He had decided that he was going to start a lawnmaintenance and landscaping business. This is where I got myfirst spark about being an entrepreneur.

Hutch: Okay.

John: My father approached me and asked if I would beinterested in working for him in this new business. He actuallyapproached it as, “I need your help.” While I loved sports, I wasbest at baseball but working for my dad would mean that therewould not be time for baseball.

Hutch: Nice.

John: And so, I did. I sacrificed baseball and what I learned atthat very young age in working for him was how to sell a job,


how to knock on a door and say, “We do work down the street.Please compare it to what you have. We would love to work withyou.” I learned how commissions work; that if you made a sale,you got a commission. I learned to do a job perfectly so, afterevery job, I knew I did it perfectly and there was nothing that Iwould go back and do differently. That’s my upbringing. Later inlife I would understand that my father had clearly defined goalsfor a project and we would be enslaved by activity until it wasdone right and he exceeded his customer’s expectations.

Hutch: So, at an early age you were selfless; you gaveup your passion for sports, which most teenage boys would notdo. You were in business with your dad and you got exposed tobeing an entrepreneur.

John: Yes, thank you. I still played basketball for the high schoolbecause it was in the winter. My dad got into the snow removalbusiness and we would plow snow from 8 p.m. until 8 a.m. Iwould come home, take a quick shower and go to school. WhenI’d say I was tired, my dad would kind of hit me with, “Man, nowyou are living the real life. This is the real life.”

Hutch: You were lucky you got that instilled at suchan early age. So, obviously, Mom and Dad had a huge impact.Anybody else have a great impact on you? If so, who and why?

John: Yes. There was a gentleman across the street that lost hiswife. She died of Cancer. He had a son a year or two youngerthan me. This man would go shoot baskets with us; play tennis,softball and football; take us fishing. When I went out with theboys or a girlfriend, he would wait outside, supposedly wateringhis lawn. His lawn didn’t need watering but that was his excuse


to catch me — whether it was 11.00 p.m. or 1:00 a.m. — and hewould ask me how it went, had I behaved myself and how lifewas going. He was a coach, a protector and a mentor, if you will;a little Yoda from the Star Wars movie for me, giving simplewisdom and also that tender side where he would get emotionaltalking about his wife who had passed and how he hadn’tremarried and how he still loved her. It was for me a greatexample. I knew at a young age that was the kind of love I wantedwhen I got married.

Hutch: What have been the major contributingfactors to your success?

John: At age 19, I decided to serve in a religious mission in mychurch for two years.

Hutch: Awesome.

John: I didn't completely understand all that would require ofme. I thought it was going to be a fun and a great experience. Iended up in Denver, Colorado and I was so homesick. I wantedto go home. I would often say, “What am I doing wearing a suiteveryday and getting rejected at every door?” It was the 70’s. Therewere hippies and protesters and we were walking around in darksuits and white shirts looking like CIA agents.

Hutch: Sure.

John: It was tough inside of that environment. But, I found amentor, if you will, to model myself after. I loved the way he


talked. I loved the way he taught. I loved his sense of humor. Iloved the way he answered questions directly to people and Iborrowed a lot of his characteristics. That allowed me, for the firsttime in my life, to become a leader over others and to beresponsible for instructing and motivating them and givingreports weekly about progress. We were asked to speak in frontof large groups of people. I remember speaking to a Baptist groupin Denver. I’d never seen a congregation that big and, before Igot up, there was the former Denver Bronco football player whosaid, “Are you scared?” I said, “I’m a little bit nervous.” He said,“You know what? That’s natural but you will do great. So, get yournerves under control and go deliver your talk.”

Hutch: And you were 19?

John: I was 19 at that time.

Hutch: Wow.

John: And so, great lessons in preparing, planning, accountability,time management, and learning to get along with others. Being19 or 20 years old and having to share an apartment with another19 to 20 year old from somewhere else in the world that you don’tknow, you’ve got to come together and learn to have fun and enjoythe journey or you won’t be successful.

Hutch: True.

John: So, I owe much of the maturing process to that experience.And then I married my lovely wife and now it was time to get a


real job. Do you want me to go on to that?

Hutch: Please, keep going.

John: I didn’t know what I wanted as a career. I went to real estateschool thinking that could be an option. I signed up for lifeinsurance classes to take the test and bailed out of that in themiddle. I had won a spot in a state speech meet and finished firstin radio broadcasting. So, I enrolled at the University of Utah andplanned on pursuing sports broadcasting. I loved my professor;really, really sharp. There weren’t many of us in the class — Ibelieve just 14 — but after class one day, I told my professor thatI thought I wanted to be in sports broadcasting and he said,“Make sure you know what you are doing.” This was before cable,before ESPN, before all that; it was just local networks. He said,“These are 18-hour days, a lot of these people are alcoholics andtheir life is pretty tough. If it’s in harmony with your values, thengo for it. But if it’s not…” I said, “What would you do if you wereme and you could do it all over again?” He said, “Sales. Somethingwith no limit.”

That struck a nerve with me. When I went home and talked tomy dad, my dad said, “Every day, I have to sell. Whether I was amilkman or selling bread, landscaping, whatever, I’ve had to sellmy whole life.” I was 22 years old, getting married and soonwould be responsible for our family. From that moment, I wascommitted and focused on finding and securing the best sales jobavailable.

The first company that took a chance on me was a gourmet foodcompany, Holly World Foods. Dave, my manager, hired and sentme to Phoenix. I had never been to Arizona. I didn’t knowgourmet foods. I didn’t know sales.


Hutch: Okay, wow.

John: But there was another guy there and we had to fight overthe territory because they didn’t need two reps. The other rep wasdiscouraged that I was even there and tried to divide up theterritory unevenly. When I called him on it, he tried to pull somestrings and then, essentially, he gave up and quit. I jumped in and,after a brief training, I started to sell. My mind was open topossibilities. I first thought: If I could only make $50k a year, thatwould be INCREDIBLE. I started thinking bigger and then thesix-figure number registered in my brain and I knew it waspossible… and we made it happen.

Hutch: The first sales job that you had you made sixfigures?

John: Yes, and after that, I wanted to raise the bar again. That isthe great thing about a business where you are not limited. Itkicks in that entrepreneurial spirit and drive.

Hutch: Wow!

John: I thought: I can do this. I can do this! And so, while inPhoenix, I met a gentleman, Jim Rhead, and we became goodfriends. I asked him, “What’s the best sales jobs you know of? Iwant to be at the top of this game. I don’t want to play in theminor leagues.” He said, “I have a brother-in-law that sellsorthopedic devices and he makes millions; I have anotherbrother-in-law that sells commercial jewelry and he is verysuccessful. One is in Texas and one is in Utah.” I told himI


wanted to talk to both of them. He set it up. The guy in Texas,we just talked on the phone. The guy in Utah, I went in to hisoffice and I saw a total joint prosthesis — total hips, total knees,spinal, trauma devices — and surgical instrumentation and waswowed. I said, “What do you guys do?” He said, “We are actuallyscrubbing in surgery with the surgeons. These instruments arenew. They are not sure how to use them properly when they arenew to them and they want us in there to make sure it’s doneright.” He told me that some were making $400,000 and$500,000 and $600,000. I knew at that moment nothing couldkeep me from getting that job. Now, there was somethingmissing: Everyone else had a college degree.

Hutch: Okay.

John: I didn’t have a college degree. So, on the job application,where it asked: “How many years of formal education?” I wrotedown: “Way too many.”

Hutch: Too many to count?

John: Yes, exactly. I owe a lot to this man. I essentially wore himout until he hired me. He gave me a chance. That is all I wanted;a chance to compete with the best. I felt, deep inside, that I wasborn to do more than I was doing; that I could be whatever Iwanted to be if I was willing to do whatever it took.

Hutch: That’s incredible.

John: He gave me a territory nobody wanted. It was the small


hospitals and clinics in five states — Nevada, Idaho, Montana,Utah, Wyoming. It was lots of travel but, within six months, mynumbers had broken every record for the company for newaccounts.I feel blessed that I learned early that success is almostalways based on inconvenience. Opportunities rarely come alongwhen you have nothing going on. It is the willingness to sacrificeas needed, when needed that makes a winner.

Hutch: What drove you John? For you to get intogourmet food, a business that you’d never done before, and thento change and get into the medical device business, what droveyou?

John: I’m not afraid to fail. Fear of failure holds people back frommoving forward. The great Winston Churchill said, “Success isthe ability to go from one failure to another without any loss ofenthusiasm.” I knew that if I gave it my very best, I would have noregrets — even if it did not work out.

Hutch: Got it.

John: I think people stay where they’re at because they fearfailure. I knew going into World Foods I could get down toPhoenix and it could be a bomb and that, if I did bomb, it wouldbe a chapter in the book and I would make something else work.When I left World Foods, my wife said, “I’ve never seen$100,000.” She grew up very modest as well and she said, “We’releaving that for what?” I said, “For a straight commission, no draw,no salary, on the road almost constantly for six monthsopportunity to prove that I can do this and then I might get ajob.” She wanted to take up a family fund for counseling but shewas always supportive. She really was.


Hutch: Okay.

John: My success in Zimmer can be traced back to anothermentor: Jess Jackson. I watched his every move. He arranged forme to spend a few days with each of his top reps. I soaked it allin. I watched him with nurses, with doctors, the way hecommunicated with purchasing agents and hospitaladministrators, and it was genius. He would say to doctors, “I willnever over promise and under deliver. It will never happen. If wesay we’ll do something, we’ll do it.” So, I learned from a very goodman. This was my education. I love this Tom Bodett quote: “Thedifference between school and life? In school, you’re taught alesson and then given a test. In life, you’re given a test that teachesyou a lesson.”

I went to work for him and then he essentially fired a person inMontana and said, “You’ve got your own territory.” And thereality hits because you go up there and you start calling on newhospitals and they all say, “We don’t do business with you. We’relocked in with a competitor. We are happy with what we have.”It’s a gut check moment.

Hutch: True.

John: I called him and do you know what his comment was?

Hutch: No.

John: “I’ll come on up. We’ll travel for a couple of days together.”And I watched him again and it was that gift of observation. All


I had to do was put my personality in with the wisdom and theknowledge and the skills. It’s what we do in network marketing.You don’t change people’s personalities or who they are but youadd to that the wisdom and the knowledge and the skills of thepeople that have been there longer and are successful.

So, eventually, I got my own territory with Zimmer — Montana— where, after a rough start, I did really well. After five yearswith the company, I went to Jess and said, “I want my owndistributorship.” That was unheard of. Zimmer was the biggestcompany in the world at the time and I was asking for adistributorship. I knew I could work for one of my competitors,which gave me some leverage, but this great man told me not tobe impatient and that he believed in me and that he would worksomething out. I never knew for sure if he was doing it or not.The offers from competitors started coming in. I felt, at times,like betraying him and going with the competitor, but I didn’t.Then, one day, he called me and he said, “Okay. Here is the deal:We have worked a deal and you will have all of North and SouthDakota, along with parts of Wyoming and Nebraska.” I had mychance. I had become the proud owner of Zimmer McLellandand Associates. We packed up and moved to Sioux Falls, SouthDakota, started hiring sales reps and ultimately became one ofthe biggest territories in the country. Colorado was added to ourterritory a few years later.

I loved every minute of it and made incredible money — in manycases, more than the orthopedic surgeons we called on. Then, Isaw the industry change. In the early days, orthopedic surgeonsmade the decision based on quality and service and there was ashift happening to HMOs and DRGs (diagnostic relatedgroupings) influencing the purchasing and things. It wasn’t thequality of the product that counted. It was the price. I didn’t likethat and it didn’t seem like something I wanted to be part of. Thebusiness was making a fortune, we had won the award for the topsales territory for several years and we were always above quota.


So, I asked to be bought out. The first offer they gave me wasn’twhat I thought I needed. I voiced that and they said, “Let ussharpen the pencil.” They came back the next day with an offerthat was very exciting.

Hutch: Okay.

John: So, I left there in December of 1989. Turns out that myinstincts were right. The industry has changed dramatically andis in turmoil.

Hutch: Did you go into semi-retirement or what wasthe plan?

John: Yes, semi-retirement. Golfing, landscaping, coaching mykids in sports, fishing and more time with the family.

Hutch: And where were you living at the time?

John: We had three homes: One in Colorado in Castle Pines,one in South Dakota and one in Arizona, a winter home. Wesold the Colorado and the South Dakota homes and upgradedour home in Arizona. We moved to a house we had always lovedin Mesa, Arizona and then we bought a home in Park City, Utahso that we could have a summer-winter combination and becloser to relatives.

Hutch: Nice lifestyle, John; very nice lifestyle.


John: It’s great. By this time, we had six kids — all boys exceptfor four girls; it’s the way I like to say it. So, four girls and twoboys.

Hutch: I bet the girls love that description ;-)

John: We had a lot of fun and that was a good time. I coachedmy kids in sports and honestly tried to make up for some losttime. I think I was always a good dad and a good husband; I don’tthink I was ever a great dad and a great husband.

Hutch: I resemble that statement.

John: But I started to get hungry again for the businessexperience. I may have been driving my good wife and kids crazybecause I was micro-managing everything.

Hutch: Isn’t it time for you to get back on the road,John?

John: Exactly.

Hutch: I’ve been there. What was the defining reasonto become a network marketing professional? What was thedecision to become part of Nu Skin?

John: It was not made at that point. I really didn’t know network


marketing existed except for some friends that invited me to anAmway meeting once but I multi-tasked through the entirepresentation and didn’t really get it anyway. I was eventuallyapproached by somebody I knew and liked (Mark Mabry) and Icould sense his excitement. I felt like, if he was excited about it,it would be worth my time to look at it — perhaps as a favor tohim as much as it was an opportunity for me. But, I didn’t takehim up on it when he said, “We are hopping on a plane and flyingdown with some people to Utah to visit Nu Skin.” Shortly afterthat, I was in Utah and I was playing golf. Then a big hailstormmoved through and we were rained out and the course closed. Icalled Mark and said, “I think I’m close to where that companyyou mentioned is located. Can you give me a name and address?”He gave it to me and I walked in, without an appointment. Mytiming was good and I had the chance to meet with the presidentand all the founders over the next day. I asked a lot of hardquestions. Once I found out what kind of sales it was, I judged itto be something people who couldn’t make it to the high levelcorporate positions did. But I loved them. I felt like I could trustthem and I asked, “How do I know I can trust you?” The way theyanswered it, it was so profound. He said, “We have integrity andwe’re always going to do what we say we’re going to do.”

I came home and I told my wife about it. Turned out we had NuSkin products in our home already. That made it easier. After that,Mark took me to lunch and explained things in detail and I said,“Let’s get going.” He sold me a beginners’ package of products.Fortunately for me, another Nu Skin top leader — Nathan Ricks,who was at the top of the game — was coming through Phoenixto do a meeting at the Ritz Carlton. I saw the presentation andI went up to him after and I said, “You were awesome. Whatplanet have you been living on? You are drawing on a whiteboardwith a thousand people in the audience and using an overheadprojector with a grease pen? Come on!” This was now 1990.


Hutch: 1990?

John: “He looked at me and said, “Hey, this has always workedbut let’s talk about it.” I went out and created a set of slides andstarted a training manual with a friend, Greg Anderson. I thencalled up Nathan and said, “Let me show you what we arecreating.” He didn’t have an ego and he said, “Let’s do thistogether. I love this.” He jumped in and helped fund it and addedso much expertise because of his experience with the company.We ultimately sold our JumpStart program to the company sothat we could build our Nu Skin business. Nathan Ricks becamemy mentor, the guy I chose to follow.

http://www.businessforhome.org/2013/09/nathan-ricks-nu-skin-hits-45-million-in-career-earnings/

Here we are, 24 years later, and he is still a great friend. I amcompletely out of his pay line. He does not make a penny on meand yet he has spent hundreds of hours working with me and mypeople.

Hutch: Who were your original sponsors?

John: Mark and Jerri Mabry.

https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/people/distributors/te_highlights/mark_jerri_mabry.html

Hutch: Are they still part of Nu Skin?

John: Yes. All of my original uplines made it all the way to BlueDiamond. We created so much volume in our organization that


there was a real urgency for them to get going so that they couldcapture that volume and get income. They have been a greatsupport as well.

Hutch: That’s cool.

John: Danny White, the old Dallas quarterback, he was one. Heultimately sold off to a partner and went into coaching football.Everyone in my upline all the way to the company made it to thetop of the plan and are great people and leaders. I have had thehonor to work with amazing leaders in my organization; peoplelike Sean and Cherrie Brady who now have their own leadershipladder that extends some 15 and 16 levels deep.

http://www.nuskin.com/en_US/people/distributors/te_highlights/cherrie_sean_brady.html

It is amazing to see. We have businesses in 50 countries. I amthat same young man from the west side of Salt Lake City whois now part of this $3 billion, dollar publically traded, fast growingcompany. Wow!

Hutch: It seems so serendipitous. I’m picturing youwalking in with your golf shoes on and maybe a pair of plaidshorts and a Greg Norman golf shirt, showing up at the corporateoffice all those years ago and the thing that impressed you aboutthose original founders was trust. Had Blake Roney, the founderof Nu Skin, done network marketing as a distributor beforefounding Nu Skin?

https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/culture/company_history/founders/blake_roney.html

John: No, not to my knowledge. But, his sister had some


experience and he surrounded himself with good people. Blakehad just graduated from college and was saving money to go tolaw school.

Hutch: Wow.

John: He actually took the money he had saved and invested itto get Nu Skin rolling, meaning he’d burned the bridge behindhim.

Hutch: That’s awesome. So, you are smoking andgoing, as I say, and you’re starting to change people’s lives. Youbring an element of professionalism, 14 years experience as abusiness owner and all these different elements. How, in the earlydays John, did you change people’s perceptions of networkmarketing, multi-level marketing? And how do you continue todo that today?

John: We actually call it the Professional Approach. It’s veryeffective. I think it evolved, in part, as a defense mechanismagainst rejection and failure because I did go to about ten peoplereal quickly and half of them hadn’t heard of Nu Skin but said,“Not interested,” and blew me off. A couple of them blew me offbecause of the perceived stigma of the industry. I went back andassessed and said to myself: “I must be doing something wrongbecause there were a 1,000 people at that meeting in Phoenixand they figured something out that I don’t know.”

I learned something while selling orthopedic implants thatchanged my life. It's more like an executive search than coldcalling. For example if you moved to a new city you would mostlikely start to network naturally with people you meet. The more


specific you are the better the results. For example you may ask“Who would you recommend as a good dentist for my children?”You would not go out and stop people on that street and ask them"are you a dentists?" It could take you forever to find a dentistthat way and you would get beat up mentally and verydiscouraged. You are playing a numbers game instead of using atargeted search. Its not about numbers it’s about naturalnetworking with a specific goal in mind. It seems so logical tome yet so many people talk to everyone person they meetsearching and searching until they find someone interested. Mysystem is more like being a head hunter than a mass recruiter.My search starts by telling those I know and meet what I amlooking for. “I am looking for someone who is hard working, goodwith people, looking to do something more or something newwith their life. Then I get very specific. I am looking for a personwho loves Japan. Perhaps they are married to a Japanese, or workswith one, or travels to Japan for business. This person should bebilingual and good with people. When I do this consistently Iget just what I ask for. For those wanting to broaden their search,they can simply tell people what they are excited about, why theyare excited, and ask them who they know who could benefit fromthis? Some may call this referral marketing but in reality theimportant thing is not to get a referral to help good ole John, Iwant them thinking constantly who could benefit from whatJohn has. I used this on my mission, I use it in finding my leaders,and I use it still today to expand my business. It has beennicknamed “The Professional Approach".

I started implementing this in our multi-level marketing business.I would say, “Hey Steven, listen. I have found a company Iabsolutely love. The people who thrive are those who want to bean entrepreneur, they are pleasant and positive, perhaps unhappywith what they are doing right now and are looking for a chanceto do business, not just in the United States but globally. This ishard work but it is so rewarding. If you know anybody that fitsthat category, I’m going to sit down with that person and if they


are the right person, I’m going to make a two-year commitmentto do everything in my power to train, mentor, coach and supportthat person to success.” I was 100% sure that if that person wasinterested, one way or another, they’d figure out a way to tell me,“I’m your guy.” But, even if they were not, I had established aconnection and they would start to think of people who couldbenefit from what I have to offer. I have people who have givenme three and four of my leaders based on the fact that Icontinued to keep in touch. I ask what they’re up to, share whatwe are up to and let them know what I’m looking for at the time.Sometimes my profile is extremely tight like a retirement agehealth care professional who may not able to retire — or whodoesn’t want to — who would love to be involved with thiscompany and do what we do. Then I say, “If you know anybody…” But they might say, “I really don’t.” I say, “Okay. Thanks.” Buteven then, out of nowhere, I’ll sometimes get a call from thatperson with a referral. It broadens that net and, to me, it made alot of sense. That’s my concept of network marketing. I don’tbelieve I would ever start talking to people I meet about networkmarketing because I have no idea of their background. But, I havefound that, if I share with them my vision, tell them why I’mexcited, what I’m excited about and what I’m looking for and thatI’m going to spend a couple of years coaching the person I seekinto success, I have been successful. I have taught this to mypeople. Not all of them use it but many have used it for greatsuccess. We call this executive recruiting and the ProfessionalApproach.

Hutch: What you have successfully done is notnecessarily a direct approach to recruit that person. So, by sharingyour vision and commitment to somebody’s success and askingsomeone you know who they know that meets that description,you have attracted others?


John: Correct. Once you get into somebody’s circle of influence— whether you want to recruit them or not — and get themcalling their people, that will broaden your circle of influence.People tend to take it as: This isn’t a favor for John. John is notasking for a referral. John is just letting me know aboutsomething he’s doing and how excited he is.

Hutch: Did you say that that was developed as adefense mechanism because those first ten people that youapproached rejected you?

John: Absolutely. I’ll tell you: I don’t like rejection; it affects me;after about five, I think they’re right and I’m wrong. I admirepeople who can withstand constant rejection. There are peoplewho can do it time and time again. I admire them but it’s notme.

Hutch: Were there other elements of the business thatwere frustrating for you? Did it ever put you to a place of beingin overwhelm?

John: Yes. It sure did. Getting that phone call from a team orcompany leader and hearing, “We decided to do something else,”or “We’re going with another company,” or whatever it would be.And because they usually have a tight connection with their team,they take a few members with them.

Hutch: How did you overcome it? What got youthrough that?


John: I love the quote: “You don’t need every person to believein you. You just need one.” I break my experiences into momentsof magic and moments of misery. In recruiting, you have plentyof moments of misery but when you find the right person, youhave a moment of magic. I too have been down and thought ofquitting when I had an entire leg go away. It was painful. It tookthose around me, including family friends and my wife, to kickme in the butt and say, “Don’t be a wimp. Get back to work.”

Hutch: Sure, that will get you going.

John: It was a good lesson of not letting myself have a pity partyand maybe overreacting. So, in moments of misery, you just needto move on. Those who succeed worry more about what they cancontrol than what they can’t control.

Hutch: You’ve been with Nu Skin for 24 years andyou’ve admitted wanting to quit but have you ever actually quit?

John: I have taken time off. One of the beautiful things aboutthis profession is that we leverage time so that we can do otherthings. I have a fantastic wife, six incredible kids and fivegranddaughters. During the last 24 years, I started a golfingbusiness with friends and we have golfed around the world. Istarted iLearningGlobal.tv with some good friends. I coachedbasketball camps. I worked with several charity organizations.I’ve taken time off to rest, to recover from serious illnesses, to bewith dying friends and to take a break. Each time, I’ve come backin with renewed energy and renewed excitement.

Maybe I’ve got some A.D.D. in me; maybe it’s replenishing thefuel tank but that has been part of my M-O. I am going to look


for the things that excite me and give it all I’ve got. When I feelburnout, I recharge. That's what makes this profession so great:If you can find a company that will go the distance and keepgrowing, you can have a lifestyle very few will ever know.

Hutch: John, is there ever a good time or good reasonto quit the business?

John: If you believe your company is going to go long term andnot become stagnant, then I would say, “No.” Why? Because theresidual income will be there forever. Remember me telling youabout me being sick with Meningitis and my family and Ithinking I wasn’t going to make it? And how I started to preparethe documents with the insurance and financial planners? They’dsay things like, “Tell me about your Nu Skin check,” and I showedthem the amount. They’d ask, “You get that every year?” I said,“No. I get that every month.” They’d say, “Okay. When does itstop?” I told them, “It never stops. If I die, it’s an asset to thefamily. It’s in a trust and that continues.” Then they’d say, “Youdon’t need more insurance.”

Then I said, “I just wanted to make sure.” ‘This means as long asthat company is in business you are in business, right?’ and I said,‘Yes,’ and he says, ‘How is its strength as a company?’ and I said,‘Well they’ve grown from $800 million to $3.4 billion in the lastten years, they’re publically traded, honest, innovative,transparent, with great leadership. I can say that I have full trustin the company.’

I realize there are lots of families worried sick about what wouldhappen to their families because Dad or Mom couldn’t work. Icount my blessings daily for this industry, this company and oftenthink: How blessed am I to afford great medical care and not havethat worry?


Hutch: What advice would you offer somebody thathasn’t had the blessings that you’ve had and is, unfortunately, onthe verge of quitting the business? What can they do to helpthemselves take that next step or stay focused?

John: Your future is not a place you get to go. It is a place you getto create. I think the journey is the reward and too many of usthink that there is a pot of gold at the end and that will make ushappy. I think if you can focus a little bit more on that, becauseyou’re probably putting way too much pressure on yourself, andstep back a little bit, you truly can find joy in the building process.Blake was right. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done; hard in waysyou can’t define; but it is by far the most rewarding thing I couldhave ever done.

Hutch: How do you guide somebody on your teamthat has call reluctance?

John: That's a very real phobia and anxiety. There is no questionabout it. There are several good techniques but the key is believingyou are adding value to those you are calling; that you’re addingvalue to their life with your products, services and theopportunity. If you believe in the value, then you will feelcompelled to call them. If you see it as a simple transaction oranother sign up or another sale, then you need the mentality ofa person in a call center and that is not that common. Either way,shadowing is a good technique. Some people in of ourorganization are really good at doing calls. They’ll say to someonewho is reluctant: “You listen to me do five or six calls and tell mewhen you are comfortable and you can start to engage.”


Hutch: How do you guide your people on how toprotect their mindset when people don't show up for meetingsand events?

John: It's brutal and sometimes that involves financial loss fromrenting space at a nice hotel room to paying for some audio-visualor whatever. It's definitely one of the toughest things. In thenetworking profession, we have to forgive and forget but learnfrom the experience. In my experience, when there are a lot ofno-shows, people relied to heavily on email, text and social mediainvitations; in other words, a lot of indirect rather than directcommunication. When you have more indirect communicationand not a lot of real one-on-one conversations, that’s usually aclue. Use it as a living experience.

I remember being in Hong Kong. We did a meeting and therewere 1000people on the first night; the next night there was 800;the next night we didn't even have enough to hold a meeting. Welearned from that experience. We adjusted and by the time wewent to Taiwan and Japan, we did much better.

Hutch this profession is going to shift. There will be those whoresist it but social media is here to stay and the way wecommunicate on webinar platforms and Skype and videomessaging is going to continue to increase. If a webinar fallsthrough and I invited 20 people and only one shows I deliver thatwebinar for that one person the same way and amount of timewith no trouble and financial loss as I did to the person live or ifwere 20 people on that webinar. We are getting so good we canput movie files on there. We can deliver PowerPoint, we can doPDF's, we can have live HD camera feeds on our speakers and itis all mobile compatible so people on iPhones and iPads aroundthe world are joining in. That's what we are bringing to ageneration that is electronically and media savvy. And actually, a


growing number of people feel that if an in-person meeting iswhat you are asking for, they will pass on the invitation. I canlearn and absorb as much from a phone or webinar presentation.Also, geography is not an issuebecause of new technology. I canconnect with South Africa, Australia, Japan and Argentina aseasily as I can connect to my next door neighbor. I like the factthat they'll say it's easy for them to duplicate because that's howthey got in.

Hutch: Sure.

John: I love where the network market profession is going. Ipredict incredible growth. Inc. magazine published an articlesaying the term success has been completely redefined now. It'sno longer what they call the fancy title and big office. They comeright out and say it is now being able to control your life, thehours you work, where you work and how you work. I believenetwork marketing is the perfect definition of the new success.

Hutch: John, since the early days of my running salesfor Tony Robbins’ seminar company, I've been partial to thenetwork marketing profession. Going back to the early 80's, therewere two affiliate organizations that kept our business afloat. Onewas RE/MAX Real Estate. The other was network marketing.So, this was pre-social media marketing. Whenever I got behindin my events, I’d reach out to my friend John Assarafhttp://johnassaraf.com/ who owned RE/MAXof Indiana andask him to please get the word out. One of my other heroes wasArt Williams who ran AL Williams. What I loved most aboutArt was his crusade. Art was on this crusade to save the massesfrom what he considered their headlong pursuit of 80-hourweeks, mediocre incomes, stress and coronary disease. So, my


question for you is: After 24, years what's your crusade?

John: That's a great background. You don't hear anybody talknegatively about Art Williams or what he brought to thisindustry and the lives he changed. He’s a fabulous man. I wouldhave to say that mine is to help others find their passion and turnthat passion into profit.

Hutch: What advice, John, would you give to a leaderthat's trying to get to the next level?

John: The first thing is that you must believe. Having belief inyourself and your company and your mission is critical. Not toolong ago I was asked to talk to a group of about 12,000 peoplepacked in a basketball stadium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL1NITDj3Bk

I believe that your ability to believe in yourself and in others iscritical.When you are a leader trying to get to the next level, youreally have a hard time mentally deciding how much time shouldyou be giving supporting the people that are already in versus thetime you should be spending on recruiting new people. There isa dilemma because you'll certainly feel more comfortable workingwith your existing people. So, the advice I would give is to makea written contract with yourself. Give yourself a 30-day contractand say, “I know I need to get to the next level. I am going tocommit X % of my time to doing the things that will get me tothe next level and they are A, B, C, D.” Look at this contract everyother day. You are not allowed to break that contract. That willdiscipline you now and you'll be taking care of your peoplebecause you were thinking with your brain and not your emotionswhen you made that contract.


Your people are going to call you and say, “Oh can we hang outand we go do this...” You’ll need to say: “I've got so manyappointments and promises I've made on my recruiting side, I'vegot five hours over the next three days to spend, how do you guyswant to do it?”

On January 1st I didn't write a New Year resolution as I usuallydo. I wrote a contract that, within 30 days, I would help myTeams and one team specifically; I would give them 90% of mytime because they were the most aggressive and they were in needof it.

Hutch: What are some of the biggest timemanagement mistakes you see people committing from workingat home committing? How do you organize and structure yourday?

John: Because we work at home, we are not focused ourselvesand we are constantly multitasking. When we are doing a wholebunch of things, we usually are not doing a very good job at anyof them. We cannot teach the brain to multitask. It has to shutdown what it's doing to do something else. When I work in myoffice, I focus on getting done with email as soon as I can. Whenemail is done, I close my email. I am done with that and moveon to the next task. Live with your calendar; you’ve got to setappointments and goals.

Hutch, the only multitasking I do is to walking and talking.Admittedly, people on the other end may find it distracting butit’s been productive for me. I will put on a headset and walkaround the neighborhood and talk with my team and prospects.I love it!


Hutch: I do the same, John. My neighbors don't seeme wearing the headset so they think I'm a loon because I'malways talking to myself. That's a great strategy for that follow-up call. Combining a call with a casual stroll seems to make itless work. Any other business-building strategies that we didn'tcover, John, that you'd like to share and then we'll wrap it up?

John: You know, Hutch, I wasn't born any more gifted thananybody else. I don't think there would be anything in my pastthat would indicate, as a kid, that I was going to be successful.What may be unique about me is that I was prepared to pay theprice of success in preparation, not just presentation. In order toget ready to give a presentation to somebody, I would get in frontof a mirror. I would make myself look into my eyes and makemyself pay attention and see my sincerity and my calmness andmy confidence level. I would listen to my voice. I think peoplewho are getting nervous about the lack of growth in theirbusiness or thinking of quitting or rejection start to carry scarswith them and they start to carry a little edginess in their voice;a little contempt, if you will. Get rid of that. Listen to yourselfand when you do, ask yourself, “Would I believe this?” You mustchange your style.

I remember really clearly meeting a Chinese lady. Before meetingher I said to myself: John you are going to be talking to a Chineselady that is by far more comfortable in Chinese than in bad English.Slow it down. Ask several times whether what you’re saying makessense. I had only talked to her for about 30 minutes and then shesaid, “Not only do I want to sign up with you but to complimentyou. It has been a long time since anybody spoke so clearly andso confidently but so politely. Thank you.”


Hutch: That's awesome.

John: Before meeting with new people, think to yourself: This isShow Time, this is my Super Bowl, my U.S. Open, my World Series.This is my big moment… and prepare like it. Not enough peopleprepare for presentations. They wing it. They say whatever is ontheir mind. Some people are so gifted that they can do it lastminute. I want to take that extra two or three minutes and makesure I am going to project the exact image I want: Confidence,peace of mind, enthusiasm. It all must come together.

Hutch: John, how do you want to be remembered and,apart from your own wishes, what will be your legacy?

John: I want to play a role in helping people improve their livesand help them pass correct principles down to the nextgeneration. I want to help others live love and leave a legacy; toknow that, together, we changed the world, we fed starving kids,we saved lives, we helped people live better and be better. I wantus to be able to quietly go to our grave and know we left thisworld better than we entered it. I want each person to have hisor her own legacy, not just be part of mine.

Hutch: How can people get to know you better? Doyou have a personal Web site?

John: I do have one at www.JohnMcLelland.com


Hutch: I'm honored that you took the time andwalked me through all the tremendous business-buildingstrategies and wonderful gifts of your ideas and brilliance. So,thank you for that, John. I wish you and your family continuoussuccess and prosperity.

John: Thank for your time and thank you for reaching out. I don'tthink I've ever done an interview like this. I have said, “No,”several times. I think we can do some good here.

Hutch: One thing that I've taken out of this conver-sation is that you have figured out a way to live life by adheringto your agenda. You have created a lifestyle that is awesome.

John: I feel so blessed for it all. When I go to our reunions orhang out with the guys, they ask me, “John, how in the worldcould you have ever figured out that Zimmer and Nu Skin wouldbe so big? Man, you’ve got the Midas touch.” And I say, “I haveno clue. I'm not smart enough to pick a company when it's thatyoung and predict incredible success for that company; nobodyis, but you can use your common sense and seek out things thatare built to last generations and never, ever, focus on chasing thefast buck.”

Hutch: John, you are an inspiration to many includingme. I know that the words of this interview will inspire othersand take them and their families to new heights. I’m proud ofyou! Keep up the awesome work and I’ll see you soon. My hopeand prayer is that you double those 350 million meals withNourish the Children.


Chapter # 7 Susan Sly

You have greatness inside you and you are my gift from God andyou can be, do and have anything you dream.

~ Susan Sly

Isagenix15 Star Platinum Circle, Twelve Star CrystalExecutive

http://susansly.com

Hutch: Susan, I’m so grateful that Jim and KathyCoover, the generous owners of Isagenix, introduced us. I amhonored to have this time with you. You have an amazing story.I was interested to read about the work that you are doing withgirls that have been sold into brothels. We are on a similar pathas it relates to helping oppressed women.

Let’s get into it. I know that you’ve transcended illness, infidelity,financial challenges… You did it step-by-step. Today, you are aself-made multi-millionaire. Could you tell us your story aboutyour upbringing?

Susan: Many people remember the story about the ugly ducklingand it’s one that has resonated with me so much, Hutch, because,honestly, I was that kid who never felt like she fit in. I grew up ina small town and there weren’t a lot of families who were ethnicand our family was Chinese. I’m half Chinese. I’ve got darker skin


and almond shaped eyes. People hadn’t seen a lot of folks fromother countries before. My grandma and my dad also raised me;my dad was a single dad. I had a lot of strikes against me, just interms of being different, and it was always the struggle to figureout how I fit in, where I belonged and who I was. So, on top ofeverything, I was also a really heavy kid and so, it always felt verylonely. I was that kid who no one wanted on the softball team.But...

Hutch: When choosing sides for an athletic team, theteam captains are able to pick sides, is that correct?

Susan: Yes.

Hutch: You are standing there waiting. You arelooking at each of the team captains and hoping you’d be pickedand then what? You were the last to be picked?

Susan: Always. I was always the last in everything; the last inrunning races; my fitness test results were off the graph. Iremember being 11 years old and watching a running race on TVand thinking: These girls are so beautiful. I would love to look likethat. I’d love to be a runner. One day, I got up at five in the morningand I went outside. I was going to run to Art Centre and back,which is about a mile round trip. I couldn’t do it. I think I madeit about 300 yards and I was out of breath. I was determined andI kept going every day. Like Forrest Gump, I kept on going andkept on going. Thanks to running, making some dietarymodifications, I left grade six as obese and by the time I cameback for grade seven, I’d lost a bunch of weight. Everyone wassaying, “Oh my Gosh. Who is this person?” I started picking upthe pace and running, even though people still wanted to keep

Chapter # 7 Susan Sly188

me last. I really fell in love with running because when I wasrunning, I was escaping and it was something that was my own.Eventually, a couple of years after that, I became a pretty decentrunner. I transitioned over to race walking and was a nationaljunior athlete. That gave me such freedom to define myself.

The other thing I did was I got up the courage to stand up to aboy. There was a boy who used to throw rocks at me and chaseme and call me names. One day, it was like a scene from a movie,I just got up the courage to confront him and take a stand formyself.

In terms of entrepreneurship, I grew up in an entrepreneur family.I started my first business at the age of 11. I was taught very earlyon, when it came to money, it was always better to own thebusiness than to work in the business. So, I did have that; andthis athleticism combined with early entrepreneurship was thething, I think, that really set me up for becoming a youngentrepreneur in my early 20’s.

Hutch: Race walking? How did you make thetransition from a runner to a race walker, Susan? I’ve done bothand what people don’t realize, if they’ve never done race walking,is how challenging it is. Correct me if I’m wrong, but race walkingis totally different. Now I have a whole different level of respectfor you as an athlete.

Susan: Wow.

Hutch: I did both about the same age that you did injunior high school and I couldn’t do race walking very well. Itwas too cumbersome for me.


Susan: Absolutely. And it’s a judge sport, right. The judges leandown in prone position on the track and gauge how you arewalking. How it all happened was, by the time I came to gradenine, I had to make some decisions. So, I learned to playbasketball and do other sports but my coach said to me, “Youknow what? You are a pretty decent runner but you are going tohave to pick one.” I went out one day and there was someonewho was race walking. She was really good. Her name was Laura.I wanted to give it a try. So, my coach, Bob, he said, “Susan, let’ssee what you can do. Let’s see what you can do for fun.” It’s notlike I was the best runner. I usually came in top five but I wasn’tnumber one. I did the quarter mile and I was actually pretty fast.The first time I did it, my form was legal and my coach, he said,“Oh my gosh. Your form is amazing. It’s legal. In fact, it’s toolegal.” I was instantly really good at it. I think if we are good atsomething and someone says, “Wow! You can be really great,”you gravitate toward it and that’s how it all happened. I don’t racewalk anymore but I can still do it.

Hutch: That’s very cool. You started to talk aboutsome of your mentors. Who has had the greatest impact on you?

Susan: I think there are so many. People have always beenteaching me how to be or how not to be. My grandmother had amassive impact on my life; she was a strict, traditional, Chinesewoman but early on, she was such a huge advocate for women.She started one of the first women networking groups and sheand her friend, Dorothy, actually started a scholarship for women.You had to be a single mom to get it. Back in the late ‘70s early‘80s, I was allowed to go to those meetings but children shouldbe never seen or heard. So, I would see these fabulous women inour town getting up and talking about their businesses andnetworking and they were powerhouses and I went, “Wow! This


is really, really cool.” I knew that from the vantage point of thework environment, very early, that for women to succeed, the onlyeven playing field was more of an entrepreneurial one. I knew,very early, that to be successful as a woman who didn’t quite fitthe mold, entrepreneurship would be a great way for me to go.

When I went to college, I thought I wanted to be a doctor and Ididn’t necessarily pursue business there but it was always on theback of my mind.

Hutch: Let’s get into the transition, the decision thatyou made to be an entrepreneur. From what I’ve read, Susan, itcame from a dark period in life. I remember reading, in Januaryof 2000, you were diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and then afew days later you caught your then husband having an affair. Iread that you lost your business, you ended up on your brother-in-law’s sofa and you were over $100,000 in debt. Walk methrough your decision to become a network marketingprofessional. What was the business that you chose at the time ifit’s not the same business that you are with now?

Susan: It was really interesting how I was introduced to networkmarketing because I had gone to college and I thought I wasgoing to get a government job; a government job meant stability.I pretty much lost my intent with that very quickly and a friendof mine said to me, “You love fitness and you love teaching fitness.Why don’t you go and become a personal trainer?” I did and thenI raised enough capital to eventually purchase a health club. But,I also had a dream of being a national team athlete. My trackcoach, who was in a network marketing company said, “Hey. Ithink you should use this product. It would really help yourperformance.” I did. I used it and I became a distributor. I didn’tknow what I was doing, Hutch. I wasn’t plugged in to any phonecalls or meetings or anything. My coach said, “Here is this


package. It’s $1,400 and if you sell three of them, you will recoupyour investment.” That’s what I did, and again, I didn’t know whatI was doing.

When everything fell apart for me back in 2000, I ended updoing a lot of soul searching. I was bitter and I was angry and Ihad trust issues. I’ve done a lot of healing over the years. I knowI’m not perfect but when I did lose everything, I was still clingingto hope because there had been a seed of desire planted in me tohelp women and to liberate women. I didn’t know how that wasgoing to happen. I ended up going back into personal training.

I recall asking one of my clients, “What time of day do you wantto train?” She said, “I’m flexible.” I didn’t know what she did. Shedrove a beautiful BMW. She always had gorgeous clothes andjewelry and stuff. I have to confess: My initial thought was thatshe was married to someone wealthy but I found out that she wassingle. For eight months, two personal training sessions a week,my client tried to recruit me into network marketing. She was sosmart and I’m so grateful because, although she led with thecompany, she also educated me over those eight months aboutresidual income.

Unfortunately, I ended up fracturing my pelvis and my client said,“Why aren’t you taking time off?” She looked at me and she said,“Oh. I know why. Because you won’t get paid and you can’t affordit.” That really hurt; it hurt desperately and I said, “Okay. We’llsit down and look at your income opportunity.” Soon, she hadme reading Robert Kiyosaki and Napoleon Hill. She educatedme on the power of residual income. She would say, “Susan, youhave these health issues and you are a single mom. You are in theprocess of repairing your life but you never know when life isgoing to happen.” That really struck a cord for me. I knew, Hutch,that life does throw us curves. There is no question.

I joined her company and I ended up involving a lot of product


users. Again, didn’t really know what I was doing. From there, wejoined a startup company and I got super excited and I started tolearn more about the profession and started to master things likethree-way calls and presentations. Sadly, that company ended upclosing because a distributor was making false claims and theFDA slapped a big fine on them. From there, I thought: I’m donewith the industry. I’m really done. But, once it’s in your blood andyou see the power of it, you really can’t go back. Once the mindhas expanded, it can’t go back to its original form. I made a pactwith God and I said to Him that if I am ever meant to donetwork marketing, a company has to have some very specificthings and I left it at that. That’s how my early network marketingcareer happened. Eventually, I would go on to Isagenix, thecompany that my husband Chris and I would create somemassive success with.

Hutch: Susan, let’s put ourselves in the shoes ofsomebody who’s a first time entrepreneur. How have you beenable to change people’s perceptions of the network marketingprofession? You and I love the industry. Unfortunately, it has, insome respects, a negative stigma about it. How have you changedpeople’s perceptions of the business?

Susan: If people don’t understand things, they are either goingto be curious or condemning. There are only really two campsthey can land in. Our responsibility, regardless of the companywe are in, is to be ambassadors of the industry. Networkmarketing is a distribution effort. Fifteen years ago, there wereno online sales. People didn’t have Amazon; they didn’t haveeBay; they didn’t go on Nordstrom.com. Today, it’s common toorder things online and to have them shipped to us — whetherit’s children’s clothing or whatever it is. So, network marketing isa mechanism to get goods to a distributor. So many largecompanies have looked at it and said, “Wow. That’s really clever


because we always have to be cautious about falling idols.” Yousee a large company and they pay a celebrity or an athlete toendorse a product and they are paying them millions and millionsof dollars and then something happens with that athlete’spersonal life and then suddenly that company looks bad andthey’ve spent a great deal of money. Whereas, in networkmarketing, there are no endorsements paid; well, in somecompanies, they may choose to do that but generally speaking,the product is shipped directly to the consumer with the vehiclebeing someone who shared via word-of-mouth advertising.

You and I are passionate about the welfare of girls and childrenall over the world. When I travel to Cambodia and I see a majorshoe manufacturer there, I know that the cost to produce theshoes is low. The average labor salary is about $0.65 to $0.75 aday. When I first started going to Cambodia, it was about $0.35a day. These young girls and women are working with no airconditioning, no breaks, 16-20 hour days, seven days a week. Theyare producing these shoes that cost, including the box, about $10to prepare and then those are getting shipped back to America,Canada or wherever they are being shipped. When you add inthe middleman, the celebrity endorsement and advertising, weare paying over $200 for those shoes.

I support network marketing because of the industry’scommitment to pay a lot of attention to the quality of theproduct. We are going to manufacture it and we are going to shipit directly to the consumer and we are going to take all of ourmarketing dollars and, instead of doing magazine adverts andinstead of paying sports celebrities and so on, we are going to paythe person who gave the word-of-mouth advertising to acquirethe customer. That’s why Warren Buffet owns network marketingcompanies. That’s why Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosakiendorse network marketing. That’s why we also see people likeBill Gates and Arianna Huffington say the future of America isreally through entrepreneurship. With record unemployment


rates, professionals are flocking to the profession of networkmarketing because they’ve grown up with it being a viable option.

Franchising in the ‘50s was really looked upon as something thatwas evil. It was looked on as a cult. Network marketing was onlylegitimized in 1979, thanks to a ruling by the FTC. We are stilla young industry and we are still growing up and getting rid ofsome of our gawky sea legs, so to speak, and really tightening ourbelts. Our industry association, DSA, does a wonderful job reallyoverseeing the industry. We are really tightening our belts onprofessionalism. I think we are honestly 5-10 years away frombeing the way it is in some countries where they ask, “Whichnetwork marketing company are you in?” as opposed to, “Are youin network marketing?” That time is coming soon. People andcompanies that lack ethics are going by the wayside. People andcompanies that do business ethically and morally and areupholding the standards of the FTC are the companies that havelongevity. Whoever is reading this, I would encourage you to holdyour head up high and be proud to be part of this profession.

Hutch: Susan, when I first went to work for TonyRobbins, I left a comfortable salaried position with Ross Perot’sElectronic Data Systems. Every day, I would wear a suit and abuttoned down shirt and I had to wear laced up shoes; I couldn’twear slip on shoes. Then I went to work for Tony in Dallas, Texasand I was paid 100% commission. The first few customers that Icalled on were familiar with me through EDS. I recall thesepotential clients asking, “Hutch, what are you doing? ThisRobbins guy, is that the same guy that does fire walks?” Theywould also ask, “Isn’t this some new age thing?” or “Is Tony evena Christian?” They questioned me personally. I wanted you to hearthe mockery and criticism I received. My question for you: Doyou remember some of those first instances of being rejected, ofbeing mocked or made fun of because of the decision that you


made to get into the network marketing profession?

Susan: Oh yes. It still happens today. I’m friends with JairekRobbins http://www.jairekrobbins.com/, Tony Robbins’ son,and I have so much respect for Tony. I had the privilege of sharingthe stage with Jim Rohn the last time he spoke live in Texas andJim tells a phenomenal story. I’ll digress for a minute because it’sa great story. Many years ago, Jim invited hundreds and hundredsof people to come to an event he was doing in Long Beach,California. He rents out a room. He sets up the stage and chairs.He is really excited and he shares that, unfortunately, only about30 people show up. There were two young men in the front row— one was 19, one was 18. Fortunately, one was Tony Robbins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Robbins and one wasMark Hughes who went on to found Herbalifehttp://www.herbalife.com/. Jim Rohn tells me, “You really haveto teach to those who show up.”

To answer your question about the criticism, we can focus on ourcritics — and that can take a lot of wind out of our sails — or wecan choose to focus on the people who have a desire to believe.For my husband Chris and for myself…our parents had anintervention in the beginning. They would say, “You are crazy.What are you doing?” Now they are really proud of us. There wasa lot of criticism.

When I decided to pursue the industry, my husband wasextremely analytical. At one point, he said, “Choose me or choosenetwork marketing,” and I said, “I choose both. I’m not going tochoose one or the other.” I said, “It took you seven years tobecome a financial accountant and, frankly, I worked seven years.”I begged him to give me that grace. When I joined my lastcompany he said, “Promise me that this is your last company; it’syour only company.” Fortunately, I can count the number ofcompanies I have joined on one hand. I think the moment westep into that place of resolve, and I know you would have found


that with Tony’s organization, that place of resolve that says thisis what I’m doing, this is part of who I am, I’m convicted that I’mchanging lives, that I’m assisting people, we’ll still attract the oddcritic. However the multitude of critics tend to melt away. Peoplewill be either curious or condemning.

Because of the network marketing industry, Chris and I are athome with our kids; they’re ages four to 16. We’re there all thetime — dance, and recitals, whatever it is. We’re there togetherpicking them up from school in the early afternoon. Some peopledon’t get the industry, but that’s okay;not everyone does. We haveto, like Jim Rohn, focus on the people who are showing up andnot make it our mission to try and convert everyone. People areeither going to come around or they are not.

Hutch: Is there a specific strategy that you employ,Susan, to protect your own mindset?

Susan: There are a couple of things: One is being highlyorganized. I really feel the number one enemy of success is thelack of organization. So, I’m disciplined. I learned this from JimRohn. I write out my day in advance so I don’t end the day beforethe next day is written out and planned. My week is planned inadvance, my month, my year and so on. I also work in 15-minuteblocks. So, when I’m doing calls, I wear a Timex watch and I’mtiming calls. I’m always working. I’m connecting with people butbeing more efficient with my time. I also am very structured inthe day. Every call I make, everything I do is extremely deliberateand for us, it’s six days on, one day off. I have to credit Jim Rohnbecause there was no way you could even be in the room or hearhis teaching without being deeply and profoundly affected. So,these strategies for organization were learned from him andpeople like Jack Canfield http://jackcanfield.com/ and MarkVictor Hansen http://markvictorhansen.com/.


The next thing is expressing daily gratitude. People are going tobe people and I love what Will Smith says, “Money doesn’tchange who you are; it only amplifies what’s already there.” So, ifyou are a negative person and you suddenly come into money,you are going to be negative. If you are a good person and youhave money, you are going to do more good things with thatmoney. For me ultimately at the end of the day coming from thebook of Course in Miracles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles is thesense and my own Christian faith is I’ve got to be willing toforgive, forgive them for they know not what they do. People aregoing to be critical. Some people are going to be negative.Working hard every day to see the best in people, sometimes it’schallenging; it really is.

Hutch: What are some of the other primary causes offailure in your business Susan?

Susan: I always believe that we are gifted with the most amazingteachers and they show up at the right time. Here is somethingI learned from a friend of mine, David, in Australia. David said,“Susan, there is this paradigm and I want to teach it to you. Writedown the following four letters: S-A-A-R. The R stands forResults. We all want results — financial results in networkmarketing and in life; whether it’s a physical transformation withyour health or your marriage or whatever it is, you want a result.The S stands for Skills: Do I have skills to match the desiredresults and the desired outcome?” I see a lot of people, Hutch,who honestly are looking for a six or seven figure result but theydon’t have the skills. In network marketing, we are talking abouthard skills meaning:

• Can you have someone take a look at information?


• Can you follow up effectively?• Can you handle an objection?• Can you get someone started?• Can you help that person get paid?• Can you help them have a wow experience with your

product or service?

Can you conduct three-way phone calls and home parties,depending on the company, and so on? Those are all tangibleskills.

Continuing with what the letters David mentioned stand for, thefirst A stands for Activity. Let’s say someone has the skills andthey want the results. But, are they doing the activities? Jim Rohnused to say, “If you want to make $1 million a year, then give yourclient the million dollars in service and have million dollaractivities.” Are they valuing your time? You want to make a $1million a year? You must earn $500 an hour. Are you strategicwith your time? Are you deliberate?

The second A stands for Attitude. Whatever amount of incomea person desires to make, they have to have a matching attitude.I see a lot of people. They have the skills and they are takingaction but their attitude isn’t in line with whatever amount ofmoney they want to make. I really feel that, as leaders in ourindustry, we’ve always got to be the ones who:

• Uphold the integrity of our profession• Have an infallible and a positive attitude about the

industry• Have a positive attitude about helping people by linkingarms, not trash talking other companies or other leaders

People are looking to us to say whether or not this is a goodindustry. The more people that win in our profession, regardlessof the company, the better it’s going to be for everyone. I love this


S-A-A-R paradigm because it really breaks it down and it helpsassist me when I’m working with someone to pinpoint wherethey’re potentially stuck so we can get them to the next level.Nine times out of ten, it actually is a skill. I see people beatingthemselves up, going, “What’s wrong with me?” but there isfundamentally something they don’t know how to do.

Hutch: You shared Jim Rohn’s story about having anevent but only certain people showed up. How have you handledno-shows?

Susan: It has happened to me and I’m not going to kid you. Thefirst thing is to ask: What’s great about this? How can I makelemons from lemonade, so to speak? It does happen. One of thethings I learned from one of my network marketing mentors is:If it’s not an opportunity meeting, it’s a training.

Hutch: Say it one more time please. It was important.

Susan: If it doesn’t end up being an opportunity meeting, it’s atraining.

Hutch: Got it. Brilliant.

Susan: So, one of my great mentors in the industry tells abeautiful story. He really wanted to embrace the profession andunderstand it. He took out a big conference room in a hotel andspent a fortune. He got professional A/V, lighting, pipe anddraping; he ran newspaper ads, did fliers, everything. The nightof the event, he has a new suit on, new shoes and so on. He is


thinking he is going to have a packed house. No one showed up.No one showed up. I think he spent several thousands of dollarson this event, well over $15,000. He did the whole presentationanyway. Why? He said, “Because this is what I can do right now.I can’t change who is not here but I can do the wholepresentation.”

Hutch: Wow.

Susan: I once was asked to go do an in-home presentation. Themeeting was about two and half to three hours from my house. Iwas nursing my baby daughter. I get in the car and this guy says,“Oh my gosh. We will have all these people here.” Even thoughmy spider senses were tingling and I had a sunk feeling, I toldmyself, “When you want it, you’ve got to be willing to do todaywhat others won’t so you can do tomorrow what others can’t.” OffI go driving with my baby and I get there and there is no onethere. The guy is sitting down wearing a T-Shirt, shorts anddrinking a beer. He said, “No one could come,” and I said, “I droveall this way and you are saying no one could come?” He said,“They all cancelled. So, I figured you’d do a private training forme.” Yes, there were some things I wanted to say but I said,“Excuse me,” and I went to the bathroom and I held my baby fora second and I went, “Okay. Breathe.”

Hutch: Right. Breathe.

Susan: Then I came back and I said, “Pick up the phone,” and hesaid, “Why?” and I said, “We are going to call everyone youinvited. We are going to call them because I didn’t come all thisway. So, we are calling them.” We did actually get someenrollments after I left and that was it.


We always have to look at it as turning it into a positive. If youhave an event and the guests don’t show up, then you make it atraining; you work on getting better. We can all improve in everyarea of our life. So, if you’ve put on something and there is noone there, you can definitely improve on inviting and call somepeople and say, “How can I get better?” Understand, too, that noteveryone is going to come–we do know that — but use thoseopportunities as training events.

Hutch: Susan, over the last ten years, have you everwanted to quit?

Susan: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Hutch: What got you through?

Susan: I think the biggest thing for me was asking: If not this,then what? My enrolling sponsor always said to me, “If not thisthen what?” I had a university degree. There are some other thingsI could do. I could be a speaker or I could be a coach or go workin corporate sales but the thought of doing anything else reallydidn’t resonate for me honestly, Hutch. This lifestyle that wecreated and being able to be here with our kids — our son hasAsperger Syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome so he has somedifferent needs and the ages our kids are at — and then me withMS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis, I thinkabout it and I go, “Well, okay. What else could I be doing andwhere else could we have this lifestyle we have and be able to dothe things we want to do?”


I think everyone has moments in their life they want to quit atsomething — whether it’s working out or staying on an eatingplan or for some people even their marriage. I mean, Hutch, weall have these moments. They are not unique to networkmarketing. So, I think the biggest thing is saying, “If not this,then what?” Then you roll up your sleeves and you dig in yourheels and you get to work, right?

Hutch: True. What advice or direction would you giveto somebody that’s on your team and is on the verge of quittingthe business? What can you do to help them take the next stepand stay focused?

Susan: The biggest thing I always counsel people to do is to say,“What have I accomplished?” I do that because the number onereason people tend to want to quit is because they comparethemselves to someone else, right? So, if you went back and said,“Who have I helped with my product or service? Have I madeextra money? How have I grown as a person? What have Ilearned? Then it allows us to have that litmus test.

For me, the times that I did want to quit, I was frustrated withpeople. It was never about my company or the people on ourcorporate team; it was about people in general and those wall-kicking moments but I thought to myself: When I worked incorporate or when I owned my health club and I had staff, I had theseexact same issues. So, they weren’t unique. After that, I’d get backon track. We are, personally, in it for life. We are committed, weare very close friends with our company owners; they are likefamily to us. This is what we do and we love it. There is no otherplace we can be changing lives at the level we are changing themthan in network marketing.


Hutch: That’s beautiful. Have you ever lost a majorleader? How do you counsel members of your team if they’ve losta significant leader?

Susan: Not a major leader. We have a massive organization,approaching 80,000 people. We’ve had a couple of people who’veleft, maybe gone to another company. Number one: I teachpeople to always wish them well; don’t put anything in writingthat’s nasty or anything. Just wish them well, love over them andultimately, they will come back. We actually had one person whohad achieved a certain level; it was our first company. She becameseduced into another company with the, “Oh you can makemoney faster. You can make more money.” She left to go to thatcompany and realized that that wasn’t the case. The companyclosed down. Actually, they were doing some things that weren’tlegal. She came back and she was very humble and she went onto become very successful. It does happen but that’s why I feelconsciously, Hutch, that those of us in companies — like theother people that are in this book who have achieved multi-million dollar incomes — have to stand in solidarity for theindustry and not trash talk companies, no matter how upset wemay get that if a person is leaving our organization and they aregoing to another company. We wish them well. They could comeback. Who knows? But we have to stand in solidarity for theprofession first. It’s like Vince Lombardi: First day of practice,he always said, “Your priorities are God, your family and football,in that order. Don’t mess it up.” As leaders in this profession, it isour duty to uphold the industry and so, don’t be that person whotrash talks other companies because whatever we put out is goingto come back to us. People are going to migrate. It happens.

Hutch: True. Susan I respect that you’ve been open


about your faith. Do you have a favorite biblical verse orsomething that you lean on to fortify your own strength?

Susan: Definitely Mark 11:22-26 and Psalms 23 if I’m having awall kicking day. I feel extremely grateful for my faith. In thisprofession we have to work like it’s up to us and pray like it’s upto God at the end of the day. I think it also keeps us in perspectiveof why we are doing what we are doing when we get helter skelterand we start chasing money; it reminds us to focus on helping toliberate people from strife or circumstance, and on giving peopleoptions. As long as we keep those values at the fore front thenwe stay in integrity and that’s important.

Hutch: Thank you for sharing that. Let’s go back totalk about some business building philosophies and strategies.What do you look for in talent?

Susan: I won’t do business with anyone that I wouldn’t have atthe dinner table with my family.

Hutch: Nice and that’s simple. You said earlier thatyour organization is approximately 80,000 people. How have youbeen able to attract the best people?

Susan: That’s been interesting because a lot of our leaders —almost 80% of them — have no real experience in the networkmarketing profession. I think that success leaves clues and I lookfor the values of a person. I look for things they have done intheir life, perhaps what they’ve achieved; like, if someone has ablack belt or if someone has been a community leader orsomething or they have persisted, I want that about people. I dofind people truly fascinating. There is no question. I think, in


terms of what we teach in developing leadership, that anyone canbe successful in this business and if someone has been in theindustry before, it doesn’t necessarily set them up for success intheir next company.

Hutch: True.

Susan: Because if we go back to that S-A-A-R, they can haveall the skills but if their attitude isn’t great, it doesn’t matter wherethey go. I think we can find leaders anywhere — whether it’s ourdental hygienist or our personal trainer or our best friend orsomeone on the PTA, they are everywhere. People fundamentally,at this particular time, I think, are more open to taking their lifeand legacy into their own hands. After the recession, it reallyshifted people’s paradigm. We had a very interesting timeeconomically, not just in North America but all over the world.We are seeing Gen Y experiencing almost 30% unemploymentrate and then we are seeing the Gen X with the highest amountof expenditures — kids, SUVs, college tuition. Then we havepeople who had hoped to retire but they’ve lost their savings andnot necessarily recovered. So, they are holding on to the jobslonger and the people in the Gen X generation, they don’t havea lot of upward mobility. So Gen X and Gen Y, I love to recruitin those two generations because, honestly, they are at a timewhen they can be really open to network marketing.

Hutch: I read that upwards of 85% of women arebuilding the network marketing profession. Are there anystereotypes, Susan that you’d like to dispel for women thinkingabout entering the business? What would you like to have goaway as it pertains to stereotypes?


Susan: I think, so often, that in the industry, people have thisimage of hosting parties all the time. That was the case at onepoint; a lot of businesses were built on a party plan and I thinksome people really liked that, Hutch, honestly. But after Facebookcame about and social networking, it really changed the face ofhow we built the business. The number one thing I’m going tosay to anyone contemplating thus profession is: It’s really yourchoice in terms of how you want to build your business. We havea lot of different options and social media did change the gamein terms of how we build and there are a lot of moms, forexample, who are stay-at-home moms who are able to buildsignificant incomes with their kids in tow because of social media.Before they had to do trainings that were either live or onconference calls or prospect via a call list. Now, thanks toFacebook and LinkedIn and everything else, you can begin tostrategically post things and generate interest and be calling thepeople who are interested. It’s a different profession than it wasten years ago before Facebook existed. I cut my teeth doing leadgeneration back in the day before email marketing auto-responders and that kind of thing! So, honestly, it is so differentnow. It really is.

Hutch: Do you recruit women the same way as men?And, same question, but vice versa: Do you recruit men the sameway as women?

Susan: Wow, that’s a great question. The number one thing I dois begin to dialogue with what the person is interested in andwhat’s important to them. I don’t see gender. I don’t see race. Idon’t see religion. I take a look at what this person wants in theirlife. Obviously, I relate to women because I understand thestruggles and the challenges and how so many women wrestlewith guilt and overwhelm; there was no question. But, at the endof the day, I would say it doesn’t change the process by which I


recruit.

Hutch: What have you experienced in terms of thepitfalls of building long distance, let alone the pitfalls of buildingoverseas or abroad?

Susan: It comes down to understanding that market. When Iwas with my former company, we were starting to open in thePhilippines and this is back before things like Skype andeverything else. I’d be up at three in the morning with my sonsleeping on my chest doing phone calls with people in thePhilippines. Today, that has all changed because, thanks to socialmedia and thanks to things like Skype and video conferencing,we have so much more flexibility. The world is indeed becominga smaller place.

I think the number one trap and seduction, Hutch, is that theydon’t tend to see what’s in their own backyard; the grass is alwaysgreener. I see people, when a company goes into a new country,that get all fired up and say, “Oh gosh. I’m going to go gold inthat country because that’s where I’m going to become successfulbecause my market is tapped out.” We never want to have thatluck mentality. Yes, I do work in some other countries but I firmlybelieve — and it doesn’t matter if your company is a hundredyears old as some of the great companies are or if it is 30, 40, 50years old — you haven’t tapped your market. So, if you havecontacts in another country, by all means, leverage them but don’tthink the grass is greener.

There is a company philosophy we have: Build locally and thinkglobally. If you do have a desire to expand your business and beable to travel all over the world, begin to ask people in yourcommunity who they know in this country or that country butdo not invest all your resources flying across the world becauseyou think the grass is greener.


Hutch: That’s perfect. I have two more questions thenwe’ll wrap it up. Susan, is there such thing as a management trapin network marketing?

Susan: Yes. Definitely. It is seductive to get into that place anduse your whole day doing training calls or talking to the samepeople over and over again. It’s easy. Human nature is to work inour comfort zone. The biggest thing for myself as a leader is Icannot ask anyone in our team to do things I’m not doing myself.Ten years later, do I have to recruit? No. We make a good income.I firmly believe it will be selfish of me not to continue to sharewhat I’ve got to offer. On a daily basis, I have connectingconversations with people personally and also with people whoare prospects for people in my team. When I see people’s businessflat line, it’s often because they are in management mode andtheir people, inherently have gone into management mode toobecause the speed of the leader is the speed of the pack. It’s a bigtrap and I’m aware of it.

Going back to Jim Rohn and Darren Hardy, publisher of SuccessMagazine http://www.success.com/ — I had the privilege ofspending the day with Darren not long ago — both of thesegentlemen say that the greatest personal development exercisewe can ever do is to write down everything we’ve done in a day.So, for the last ten years, I’ve kept spiral notebooks of everyperson I have connected with, followed up with for myselfpersonally and through Web calls and things for people in ourteam. So, I avoid the management trap because I know that ifthe notebook is empty, I’m in management and that’s not good.But, if the notebook is full of names, I’m not in managementmode. I’m leading with integrity.


Hutch: That’s awesome. You are incredibly young:What does your life look like in the next few years? What areyou excited about?

Susan: Oh gosh. There is so much. For us, raising our kids. I’mthe product of double divorce; both my parents are divorcedtwice. I’m the only child. So, I’m really passionate about thefamily and also about our family. For me, it’s really being in thisplace of experiences to travel. It’s so cool because our kids havebeen to Asia twice, which is awesome. We love to travel, love tohave adventures, love to teach by experience, which is great. So,there is definitely more travel adventures on the horizon.

I’m always working on bettering myself and as I said, I’m notperfect. I think anyone who says they’re perfect sets themselvesup for a target. So, I’m always working on bettering my skills,bettering my knowledge. Definitely, I want to contribute at ahigher level and you and I share the passion for girls. I’mpassionate about the welfare of children in the developing worldbut also here at home. There are some projects that are in thepipeline. I don’t want to get into them too much yet because theyhaven’t come to fruition.

I don’t compete with others but I’m always wanting to competewith myself and saying, “Am I in a better place at this time thisyear than I was last year?” I love how Tony Robbins puts it. Itgoes something like this: “You are sitting on the porch and youare looking back at the last five years. If you go forward in thenext five years, doing everything you did the last five years —eating everything you ate, taking every option you took, makingevery choice you made — where are you going to be in the nextfive years in your health and finances and relationships and soon?” If I don’t like that answer then I’ve got to work harder. Chrisand I are always working harder at our marriage. It’s being in this


place and saying, “How can we improve? How can we get betteras a couple? As parents and everything?” That’s what I see in thefuture. I’m really excited.

I’m also excited for people coming into this profession, regardlessof the company they choose to go with, because it really doesliberate people like no one else and I’m excited about that,Hutch… and seeing where we are going to go as we link arms. Ihave friends in other companies. I admire a lot of people in othercompanies and I think, as we stand unified for this industry,amazing things are going to happen.

Hutch: True. If people want to get to know you better,what would you suggest? I would recommend people to go toyour Web site http://susansly.com but how else could they getto know you better, Susan?

Susan: If they go to iTunes as well. I have podcasts andpodcasting on iTunes. I’ve also been doing daily open podcastsfor the last several years and those are on http://personalpowerpodcast.com.

Hutch: And if somebody wanted to read, would yourecommend reading The Have It All Woman?

Susan: Guys read that too and that book…Just a quick story ofwhere it came from. A lot of people asked me, “Susan, how didyou transcend illness?” I say, “I still have MS but I manage thesymptoms really well.” They’d also ask, “How did you transcendheartbreak and financial devastation?” I started to really look atthe action steps I took and I really researched what other peopledid — not just women but men too — who have overcome pretty


serious life challenges and came up with a formula to say, “Youcan have it all.” It comes down to three things: healthyrelationships, financial independence and, of course, your health.You can have it all. You’re going to have to work for it. You’regoing to have to make some tough decisions. You’re probablygoing to have to do some course correcting. So, that’s how itemerged. In and on a daily basis, I’m incredibly grateful. We geta lot of men and women — whether on our Facebook fan pageat Facebook.com/susanslylive connecting with us saying they’rereading the book. A lot of times, I’m in tears. I’m candid aboutthings like early memories of wanting to commit suicide and thentrying to take my own life, hating myself… Like, really, I’m anopen book. I tell it like it is. For some people, that’s refreshingand some people go, “Wow. I can’t believe you would say all thesethings.” But, I think that, as an ambassador of the industry, wehave to be honest and have integrity and hold it up and I love toconnect with anyone who wants to, absolutely.

Hutch: Awesome. Last question: You mentioned toyour husband Chris the timeframe of seven years. What has beenyour experience? What are fair, reasonable timeframes for thatperson getting into the business to succeed?

Susan: The President of the United States is making about$400,000 a year; a physician, not a specialist, makes, on lower end$130,000 to $250,000 a year up to about $1 million a year on thehigher end. If you look at professional incomes and calculate howlong it took that person to qualify to make that income — firstthere was an undergraduate degree and then on top of that therewas graduate degree and so on — the average is about seven years.So, you’ve got to give yourself seven years; seven years of dailyaction towards the pursuit of your dreams and seven years ofkeeping your attitude in check. Imagine if everyone gave it sevenyears. The industry would have a different reputation because


people wouldn’t be jumping around. I think everyone needs togive it seven years. There is no question.

Hutch: Susan, I acknowledge you and your husbandChris, and your children. Anything else you’d like to say?

Susan: Before we put our kids to bed, I’ve always thought verydeeply, Hutch, about what kind of environment I would want tobe raised in if I was a child. So, every night, before I put my kidsto bed I say, “You have greatness inside you and you are my giftfrom God and you can be, do and have anything you dream.”Then I say to them, “What are you?” and they say, “I’m thewinner,” and I say, “What’s your verse?” and they say, “He who iswithin me is greater than he who is in the world.” I’d love to partwith that and say to people: There is always a power that is greaterthan you at work in your life and trust and have faith and believeand go for it.

I want to hear about your success. It doesn’t matter what companyyou are in. I want to hear from you. I want to hear how you arewinning. Go out there and be an ambassador of this greatindustry.

Hutch: Susan you are an inspiration to many,including me. I know that the words of this interview will inspireothers and take them and their families to new heights. Keep upthe great work. Again, I’m so grateful for Jim and Kathy makingthis introduction. I’m proud of you!

Susan: Thank you so much, Hutch. It’s an honor to serve and ifthere is anything we can do for you and your audience in thefuture, please let us know.


Fall down seven times. Stand up eight.

~ Chinese Proverb

Conclusion

Your life matters. Your life has purpose. You were put on thisearth to capitalize on your strengths and achieve your destiny.God has given you the power to achieve great heights, the powerto make a difference for your family and community and thepower to realize your ambitions and dreams. Your God wants youto be happy. It is never too late to become the person you weremeant to be. Stay committed to your plan when the going getstough. Living to give to others, working hard for your destinyand fighting for your dreams are the battles you will never regretno matter how long it takes.

I believe you have a calling. I believe you are important as acreature of God. I believe we are all called and this is your life! Ibelieve you deserve to live your life in a successful way. I believethat you can create genuine fulfillment, make money, havefreedom and make a difference for others. In short, to do greatby doing good!

I believe you have all the raw materials to become successful.Somewhere deep inside of you, a calling for your greatness iswaiting to be answered. Maybe you have been ignoring it foryears. You may have spent the last few years caught in yournormal routine of just getting by, but nonetheless, your calling isthere. What are you trading your life for? Are you ready to digdeep and provide value and a meaningful service to others? Youare needed. Your family needs you. You need you.

Are you ready to take the call? That call is what encourages you


to get out of the same old routine. You are more than your presentday circumstances. Now is the time to make your mark on theworld. Now is the time to live to give. Now is the time to give tolive.

Forget mistakes, forget failures, forget everything, except whatyou’re going to do now and do it. Today is your lucky day.

~ Will Durant

My core belief in life is that we were all given the exact sameability on Earth. How you use those abilities, however, is up toyou. Unfortunately, too many people live their lives filled withexcuses. “I’m not smart enough.” “I don’t have enough education.”“I’m too poor.” “I’m too old.” They’re all excuses you’ve probablyheard or even used before but here’s the one people tellthemselves the most: “I’m not good enough.” Stop telling yourselfthat you aren’t smart enough or good enough. They’re all lies thatwe use as excuses to live small.

Now is the time to start putting a high-income value on whatyou bring to the marketplace. If you don’t value yourself, thenopportunities, people and money will never be attracted to you.Others will only value you and treat you to the degree you valueyourself. Whether you want to admit this about yourself or not,you were created with all the creativity, all the genius, all thedetermination and all the strength that you need to creategreatness in your life. Until we meet in person or speak live, begrateful for what you have. Live to Give.

Michael “Hutch”

Conclusion216

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Persistence is to the character of a man as carbon is to steel.

~ Napoleon Hill

Bonus Interview: Meet the Author

Michael “Hutch” Hutchison

Michael “Hutch” realized early on in life what separated goodleaders from the great leaders. He has dedicated his life todiscovering and sharing the secrets of leaders and champions.Hutch has lived in the trenches and knows what it takes tosucceed. He possesses a rare combination of inspirational andleadership talent.


What is your brief bio?

I have worked hard to earn a reputation of credibilityand trust.

Host of Credibility LiveI am the most recent host of Dun & Bradstreet Credibility Corp’sCredibilityLIVE! Web TV show, which is focused on inspiringpeople to make things happen in their business. I interviewcredible market leaders who can provide actionable strategies foryou to become more successful than ever before. ThroughCredibilityLIVE and my previous business encounters, I have metwith and interviewed or advised many of the top leaders andspeakers including HarvEker, Brian Tracy, Jay Abraham, LeighSteinberg, Steve Cox, Fran Meier, Marcus Buckingham, PhilTown, Stephen MR Covey, Les Brown, Mari Smith, GaryGoldstein, Chris Brogan and many others.

To see many of these exclusive interviews, go here now:http://www.michaelhutch.com/category/recenthttp://credibilitylive.com

I am the author of Speaking Mastery: 7 Keys to Delivering HighImpact Presentations

http://www.amazon.com/Speaking-Mastery-Delivering-Impact-Presentations-ebook/dp/B00FE7I1FK

and STOP IT! 7 Mistakes to Avoid When Starting Your RelationshipMarketing Business. http://stopitbook.com

Bonus Interview: Meet the Author220

Entrepreneurial ExecutiveOver the past two decades, I have helped build several respectedenterprises while continuing to model and study the lives of achieverswho thrive on and off the job. I began my business career as acorporate recruiter for Ross Perot's Electronic Data Systems(EDS). I was the top recruiter in the company. I was “hand-picked” to lead the Central European Recruiting Division andbecame the youngest manager in all of EDS/GM InternationalOperations.

I began my speaking and training career when I joined RobbinsResearch International (RRI), Tony Robbins’ company, as aRegional Sales Manager and Trainer. I was a founding leader ofTony Robbins’ startup business seminars. At the time, Tony’scompany was reported to be in about $750,000.00 of debt. Talkabout an uphill battle right out of the gates! I approached Tonywith the idea for a seminar called Life Mastery University. Usingthe principles that I now teach, our team was able to help turnthe company around. I led the company to record growth forseven consecutive years. While at RRI, I also personallyconducted hundreds of trainings in North America, Europe andAustralia.

I am biased towards the network marketing industry because,when I ran sales and marketing for Tony’s seminars in the mid‘80s through the mid ‘90s, several network marketing companieskept the seminars profitable. Today, Tony currently runs one ofthe largest peak performance training enterprises in the world…and Life Mastery University continues to be the flagship seminar.

(Watch a candid interview about my time working with TonyRobbins via this Mixergy interview:http://www.michaelhutch.com/video-blog/my-mixergy-com-interview-772)


What Gives You the Right to Write the BookProfiles In Persistence?

I have started more businesses and have struggled andfailed more times than most people have had different jobs! Ihave been rejected more times than I can count.

For example, I did not get into a single college I applied tocoming out of high school and yet I graduated from GeorgetownUniversity.

When I left conservative “white button down and laced up shoes”EDS to work for Tony Robbins back in 1987 (“Hutch: You’regoing to be selling “firewalks,” seriously?) or when I worked forspeech recognition start up SpeechWorks (“Hutch, no one willever talk to a machine.”) or when I invested in an equity basedcrowd funding platform (“Hutch, you realize that allowingunaccredited investors to invest in private businesses will be onebig fraud.”), everyone knew I was being foolish. “And now Hutchyou are writing a book on network marketing leaders? Now youhave completely lost it!”

What were the 3 biggest obstacles you have had toovercome in your lifetime?

Number one was fracturing my back after falling fourstories my second year in college. I was 19 years old and thedoctors told me I would be paralyzed from the waist down, which


was not the future I had in mind. I worked very hard on my bodyand mind to overcome that. During rehabilitation is when I firstrealized that it’s easier to act yourself into good thinking thanthink yourself into good action. To recover, I knew that I had toget started and that I was not going to stop until I got it done. Ipromised myself, and my God, that I would recover and that Iwould be an example of someone who took action each and everyday. It was a dramatic recovery, but I made it and I eventuallyplayed sports again. I went on to become a varsity letterman infootball and lacrosse my senior year at Georgetown University. Ialso taught tennis professionally after graduation. Anyone whosays, “You can do whatever you put your mind to,” is leavingsomething out: Action and behavior! I say, “You can do whateveryou put your mind to only if you have the action and behavior todrive what you envision in your mind!” Number two was goingthrough my divorce in 2001, after being married for 17 years.Failing in my marriage and being separated from my childrenis/was the most pain I have endured in my life. Number threewas overcoming my innate shyness. My father was a militaryofficer. He was a pilot and then in the Joint Special OperationsCommand ( JSOC). Special Ops are the really secret soldiers-theArmy Deltas and Navy Seals. We grew up in a strict yet lovingfamily where speaking up was not condoned and certainly myfather’s work was never discussed. Being shy led to my self-doubt.I had a hard time believing that I was smart enough, and capableenough to have a career as a business leader and professionalspeaker. It seemed like such a huge chasm between other’sexperiences and credentials and mine. Fortunately, I learned howto overcome my shyness, gained lots of real world workingexperiences, learned from the best speakers in the world, andeventually wrote the book: Speaking Mastery: 7 Keys toDelivering High Impact Presentations. All this required a lot ofdrive.


Who were your role models/mentors, and what wasit that you saw in them?

I am fortunate to have role models for different things,because some role models are good at some things and not sogood at other things. My first role models were and are my folks.Mom and Dad taught me to believe in myself. I do believe thatthat is the key to all the good fortune or success that I have had.Believing I could do anything has always enabled me to faceproblems head on. My parents instilled in me that the two secretsof success have always been the same. They are “Get-to-it-ivenessand Stick-to-it-iveness and ask for God’s help.” Note, they did NOTsay “Think-to-it-iveness.” In other words, get going and keepgoing. This has been the formula for my success.

My children are my role models in terms of possibilities.

Once I got into the speaking and training business, Tony Robbinsbecame a role model. He is a consistent deliverer, and that is rare.He’s conditioned his inner Personal Best Thoughts knowing thatanything less than perfection, as a platform professional, isunacceptable. It’s not a place that he will go. And that’s true nomatter what. I remember being with him when he’s missed 2 daysof sleep in a row, and he still delivers. And you know what else?In 7+ years of working together, I only remember seeing himyawn once. And that was at a comedy club in Seattle, WA forPete’s sake!

For business ethics, my role models are Tom McCarthy and JoeSweeney. I met Tom in 7th grade, back in 1974. We became bestfriends and have been ever since. Joe Sweeney is the author ofNetworking Is A Contact Sport. Both Tom and Joe are as squeaky


clean as imaginable! Their word is their bond.

My intellectual role models are my older brother Bill and his wifeLaura Ann, who have several degrees from Duke, Harvard,Cambridge and MIT. Bill can sit down with you and discuss howchaotic math can predict weather patterns and the componentsof Mars’ surface like someone would discuss the headline newsand the sports page. He is truly brilliant. His wife Laura Ann isa real life Renaissance woman.

My role models for being a good parent are my parents who havebeen married for fifty-four+ years; my youngest brother John andmy fiancée, Heather. John has three boys and is firm but fair whenit comes to being a parent and he has taught me the importanceof the word “no.” One of the many attributes I appreciate aboutHeather is that she says what she means and means what she saysbut she is not mean when she says it to our six kids or me.

How did you get started as a speaker?

While I was shy and introverted growing up, I was,and am, accustomed to speaking a lot as a coach. I have coachedall my children’s baseball, soccer, tennis, basketball and footballteams. What I discovered was if I could develop some expertisein business, and combine this with my athletic background, Icould be good. When I graduated from Georgetown University,I went to work for Ross Perot’s Electronic Data Systems (EDS).I was good with people and easily excelled at my job, eventuallybecoming the top recruiter in the country for EDS. The thing is:My heart wasn’t in it. After working for EDS, I went on the roadto promote Tony Robbins. We went knocking on doors, tryingto get the opportunity to speak in front of anyone we could. I


literally used to go out and knock on ten doors every day, tryingto find someone who would let us come in and speak. Now thatwas a numbers game. When I first started, nine would say, “No,”and one would say, “Yes.” I remember that the first person whosaid, “Yes,” to me was from Metropolitan Life Insurance inDallas, Texas, and when he said yes, I said, “Really do you meanit?” From that point, I was hooked. I started doing two, three thenfour talks a day. I’d do a breakfast talk at 7 am, go and sell for awhile, do another talk at 10 am, then 1 pm, and another at 4 pm.We spoke to stockbrokers, real estate agents, insurancesalespeople, Rotary Club meetings, networking events… wespoke to anybody who would have us in; give us an audience andwe’d go speak. My first 1500 speeches were little 30-minutefreebies to 6-10 people. Needless to say, I realized early on that Iwas going to have to develop some talent or starve to death!Eventually, I got good enough to get promoted to a RegionalDirector. My job was to focus on replicating my success and tobuild other teams. Over the next three years, I made over 20,000sales calls and did, on average, 20 presentations each week.

In Malcolm Gladwell’s latest book, The Outliers he suggests thatto be successful, one must invest a minimum of 10,000 hours tostart to get good. I practically had that covered in the first yearworking with Tony! After I left Tony Robbins, I soughtadditional business and leadership experiences while continuingto improve my speaking capabilities. As a speaker, I started on apart-time basis in talking about mental readiness, sales,communication, persuasion and recruiting. That’s how it allstarted.


Profiles In Persistence7 Network Marketing Leaders Share their Strategies for aFinancially Successful Life & Legacy

No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or byany means, mechanical or electronic, including photocopying and recording, orby any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writingfrom author or publisher (except by a reviewer, who may quote brief passages ina review).

Disclaimer

The Publisher and the Author make no representations or warranties with respectto the accuracy or completeness of the contents of this work and specificallydisclaim all warranties, including without limitation warranties of fitness for aparticular purpose. No warranty may be created or extended by sales orpromotional materials. The advice and strategies contained herein may not besuitable for every situation. This work is sold with the understanding that thePublisher is not engaged in rendering legal, accounting, or other professionalservices. If professional assistance is required, the services of a competentprofessional person should be sought. Neither the Publisher nor the Author shallbe liable for damages arising herefrom. The fact that an organization or websiteis referred to in this work as a citation and/or a potential source of furtherinformation does not mean that the Author or the Publisher endorses theinformation the organization or website may provide or recommendations it maymake. Further, readers should be aware that internet websites listed in this workmay have changed or disappeared between when this work was written and whenit is read.

Published by: MTH & Associates, Inc.

Published 2014

Graphic Design & Layout: Tavi Bruce [email protected]

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table of contents · dedication to the seven featured leaders — jordan adler, margie aliprandi,...

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