the art of prospecting and follow-up 1actionplan.com/pdf/skloyda_12.pdfspeaking,” then what?...

THE ART OF PROSPECTING and FOLLOW-UP 1 Robert Middleton Interviews Steve Kloyda

Copyright ©2012 Robert Middleton, Action Plan Marketing - www.actionplan.com

Robert: Steve, the title for this interview is “The Art of Prospecting.” I understand you are considered The Prospecting Expert. Why is that?

Steve: I have a philosophy that I can’t teach somebody something that I have never experienced. In other words, I couldn’t teach you how to ride a motorcycle. You and I would end up in the hospital.

The reason I’m considered the Prospecting Expert is that since 1980 I have made over 250,000 sales and prospecting calls. I’ve listened to and analyzed over 25,000 actual sales calls, and I have facilitated over 6,000 one-on-one coaching sessions, so I come with a boatload of experience.

Robert: This is great because I tell people that we get top marketing experts on this call, and with those kinds of credentials I know we’re going to get a lot of great information today. I’m really looking forward to this.

How do you define prospecting, and how do you also differentiate that from cold calling? A lot of people are scared to death of cold calling, but prospecting does not necessarily mean cold calling, right?

Steve: Exactly. There is really a big difference. The definition of prospecting is “in search of or to labor for.” We’re all searching for new customers or new business from our existing customers.

Cold calling is a part of prospecting. I’m not necessarily saying it should be the very first thing you do, but cold calling is really calling on people you don’t know. They don’t like you, and they don’t trust you. It could be a part



of the mix, but not necessarily the first thing you lead with.

Robert: Then how would you differentiate prospecting from marketing or marketing activities for independent professionals? Is that pretty much the same thing?

Steve: It could be the same thing. Marketing, as you’ve talked about before, could be giving a talk. It could be networking. You’re really prospecting. You’re connecting and engaging with your target audience. Any time you’re involved in any of those activities, I consider that prospecting.

Back in the 1850s in the Gold Rush, you had Hector the prospector out there with his tin pan. He was prospecting for gold, and every time he found a gold nugget he didn’t stop. He continued to prospect, and when the mine or stream dried up, he found another mine or stream.

It’s the same thing with professional individuals and marketers. They’re constantly looking for new customers or new business from their existing customers.

The greatest example on the planet today is Apple. They were on the verge of bankruptcy in 1997. Steve Jobs came back to the company, which he cofounded, and I remember seeing one of his first talks to his staff. He said, “We’re going to innovate our way out of this.”

They continued to innovate and market to their target audience, and 15 years later they’re considered one of the largest and most valuable companies in the world, and they have never stopped prospecting.



Robert: Prospecting is something that really is analogous to personal marketing, you might say. It’s just a different word for it. It also includes all these follow-up activities.

The thing that interests me about this interview is you’ve studied so many different sales calls and done so many calls yourself. I hope we get really deeply into that part.

In your experience, where do prospects come from? People always wonder, “How am I going to get in touch with these people in the first place?”

Steve: Really, when you think about it, they come from a variety of sources, and even places we don’t think about. You may be giving a talk to a local Chamber member, Chamber of Commerce, BNI group, or networking at a networking event. Those prospects may come from your warm or natural market.

They also may come from referrals from existing customers. Eighty-nine percent of the entrepreneurs or solo professionals don’t ask for referrals. Only 11% of us ask for referrals, and there’s a reason.

Our prospects may even come from centers of influence, such as community leaders, attorneys, CPAs, or other professionals like you, but in a different marketplace where you share prospects and potential customers.

Our prospects may come from different associations that we belong to. I had mentioned Chambers of Commerce, Rotary, and networking groups. I know there are a lot of Meetups that go on every day across the country.



Your prospects may even come from social media. Social media is very big today. You have Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube and all these different avenues.

Your prospects may even come from a cold call. I’m not suggesting everybody run out cold calling because there are so many other ways to prospect or market your particular business.

Robert: I say to market to those that you have an affiliation with first, as opposed to strangers, and that’s exactly what you’re saying.

Here’s a question that I think stops everybody. There really are a lot of prospective clients out there. There are many more than we’d ever need to have a fulltime business for the rest of our lives. I’m convinced of that, but why is it so hard?

Steve: I’ll tell you why, having worked with thousands of marketers and salespeople over the past 25-plus years. When you and I were growing up, who did our parents tell us never to talk to?

Robert: Salespeople. Strangers.

Steve: Strangers and salespeople. I have this all the time. I was doing a workshop for a company up in Canada recently. I met a gentleman who’s a financial advisor and independent professional who has been in the business for 25 years. He markets his business by going to networking events, belongs to the local Chamber of Commerce, and connects and engages with people in those venues. He collects business cards and goes back to his office.



He said, “I’ve been doing this for 25 years, and those business cards sit on my desk because I am afraid to follow up. I’ve met these people, but I don’t know what it is about following up with these people.”

The first follow-up is always the toughest, but think back to what our parents taught us never to do, which is don’t talk to strangers, even though they’re not really a stranger. We never really consider ourselves a salesperson.

Think about it. Robert, if you saw a good movie, went to a good restaurant or read a good book, would you tell somebody about it?

Robert: All the time.

Steve: Think about all the listeners we have today. How many of you have children or access to children? Are they great marketers or great salespeople? Well, sure they are. If they want to go to the mall, how many times will they follow up and ask you to take them to the mall?

Robert: They’re great closers.

Steve: They are until two things happen. One, they’re at the mall, or, two, they’re in the room, but they’re going somewhere. Somewhere along the way we’ve lost that persistence. We lost that fear. When I say the word “salesperson” or “marketer,” what’s the first thing that comes to mind?

Robert: Hype.

Steve: Yes. Nobody wants to think of themselves as that person, but here’s how I approach it. If your business has the cure for cancer, how many people would you market to, and



how many people would you follow up with if you had the cure for their cancer?

Robert: Well, gee, Steve, what if I got rejected? It seems silly, but that’s how people think.

Steve: I know. It really is. Yes, rejection is a part of the marketing or follow-up process, but if we really and truly believe that our products and services can solve somebody else’s problem, I believe it’s our moral responsibility to follow up, market or make the call to that individual.

Robert: Why don’t we get into some of the steps? If you’re saying, “Robert, you’ve never prospected before. You’ve never found a client. Get out there and do some networking and speaking,” then what?

People are often left with, “Well, I gave a talk. I went to networking events. I got cards from people, but where are the clients? How come they’re not calling me?”

Steve: The phone isn’t ringing off the hook, is it?

Robert: No, it’s not.

Steve: Let me share a little story to illustrate my point, and then I’ll share some strategies about how to do that.

I started as a stockbroker in 1980. I had this vision of a gentleman in a three-piece suit watching the tape of the New York Stock Exchange. I used to work downtown Minneapolis, and before I was a stockbroker, I walked by an office every day where stockbrokers were in their three-piece suits, their phones were ringing, and people were jumping up and down, so I became a stockbroker.



The first week, I was sitting there at my desk waiting for the phone to ring. My boss came out and said, “What are you doing?” I said, “I’m waiting for the phone to ring.” He said, “No, you have it all wrong. You’ll have to make outbound calls. You have to go to networking events. You have to give talks about financial planning.”

Now I have to be on the offense. Even though I gave the talks and went to networking events, I still had all these cards that I needed to follow up with.

The best advice I can give is to work from a script or agenda. The highest-paid people in this world know their presentations word for word. Do you think Jack Nicholson shows up on the set and wings it?

Robert: Or Tiger Woods or anyone else.

Steve: It’s amazing. Once you have a script or agenda when you make the call, it gives you a roadmap and confidence.

I’m not saying that you’re not going to feel a little call reluctance in the initial stages. After making 250,000 calls, I still experience call reluctance. The first call is always the toughest.

Whether it’s a follow-up call from a networking event, you’ve given a talk or had a breakfast meeting with several people, the biggest mistake I see people make is they don’t have a plan. They don’t know what to say, so when they get on the telephone, it’s like deer in the headlights.

Let me give you a couple of strategies. The first thing when you approach somebody on the telephone is to give your name, company name, and ask if it’s a convenient



time to talk. “Hi, Robert. This is Steve Kloyda with The Prospecting Expert. You may recall that we met last week at the local Chamber meeting. Is this a convenient time to talk?”

The first thing is to reference where, help them relive the past where you met them and then always ask if it’s a convenient time to talk. Now you’re respecting their time.

A lot of people say, “If I ask them if they have a minute to talk, they’re going to say no.” Ninety-five percent of the people are curious why you’re calling. I’ve actually tested this particular tactic and skill with over one million telephone calls, and 95% of the time people say, “Okay, that depends. What are you calling about?”

I’ve referenced where I met them, where they were involved in a group, one of my talks or a networking event. They say, “Sure, that depends. What’s on your mind?” Then the very next thing that comes out of your mouth is, “The reason for my call,” “The purpose of my call,” “I’m calling in regards to,” or “I’m following up about ____.”

In all the calls I’ve listened to, we start a conversation with, “Hi, Robert. This is Steve Kloyda with XYZ Company. How are you doing today?” When we ask that question, we automatically sound like every other marketer, telemarketer, or salesperson out there. By asking them if they have a minute, we’ve automatically separated ourselves from everybody else.

Most people start the conversation with what I call the “purpose statement.” “I was just calling,” or “I just wanted



to see,” “You may recall,” or “We met at,” but they’re not really clear about their purpose.

“The purpose of my call is that you and I had an opportunity to meet at this local networking event, and I wanted to ask you a couple of questions to see if my services could even be appropriate in this particular situation.” Maybe you want to set an appointment with them, so maybe you’ll ask for an appointment.

The biggest thing is to always be prepared for the call. Have an agenda or some kind of outline or script. That will give you the confidence to follow up with people after you’ve met with them.

Robert: I want to throw in one other thing. In many cases I recommend that when they meet someone through networking or after a speaking engagement that they ask if they can send them an article, so often when they follow up, that person has seen or read that article ahead of time. It doesn’t sound like that would make a lot of difference in the basic approach to the call.

Steve: What happens a lot of times is that when people follow up with an article or they’re following up after they’ve sent something, they’ll ask, “Did you get the article, and did you read it?” “Well, no. I really haven’t had time to read it.” That becomes an obstacle to the continuation of the call.

I recommend saying, “Hi, this is Steve Kloyda with The Prospecting Expert. You may recall receiving an article that I sent you recently about marketing. Is this a convenient time to talk?” I’ll reference the article, but I won’t ask them if they read it simply because a lot of times



people are really busy, and they haven’t had time to read it. I don’t really want to put them on the spot.

Robert: If they bring it up, fine, but they might not have gotten around to reading it yet. Just getting it sort of warms up the call a little bit more, in my experience.

Steve: Exactly. It’s a great way to lead into a conversation.

Robert: I said, “Sure, I have a minute.” I knew this person because he gave a really good talk a couple days ago, and I got the article and maybe glanced at it.

Next is the purpose of the call. Let’s go over that again.

Steve: The purpose of the call begins with, “The reason for my call today,” “The purpose of my call,” “I’m calling in regard to,” or “I’m following up about __.” We want to remove the word “just” as in “I just wanted to touch base with you.”

When you use the word “just,” it diminishes the importance of the phone call. That’s why I say to remove the word “just” and begin the conversation with, “The reason for my call,” and then state your purpose.

It’s critical that you end the purpose statement with a question. It’s critical to the direction of the call.

Robert: What would that question be?

Steve: It depends on the purpose of the call. First I have to identify the purpose of my call. If your listeners take nothing else out of this interview, remember that the purpose of the call is to keep the purpose of the call the purpose of the call.



You may want to engage this person and begin to ask questions to see if they’re even a qualified individual who would really appreciate and value your services, or if it’s close for you, you may want to ask for an appointment to see this individual.

Robert: I say, “Steve, the purpose of this call is to follow up from the conversation we had at the Chamber of Commerce. I’d like to find out more about your business to see if there’s any way I can help you with my services.” What would a natural question be to follow up with that?

Steve: You said two things. One was, “I want to see if there’s a natural fit with our services.” What are some questions you might ask somebody to see if they’re even qualified or interested?

Robert: I could go right into that.

Steve: You could go right into that. Then after asking maybe three or four questions, you could say, “Based on the information you’ve given me, I think I can help you. What is your availability next week for you and me to sit down for 30 minutes?”

Robert: I often call these marketing conversations, preselling conversations, or follow-up conversations. In your experience what’s about the best length for a conversation like that? I find it varies widely. If they’re very qualified, it’s faster. If I don’t know them as well, we talk more. Do you have a rule of thumb?

Steve: It really comes back to the purpose. If the purpose of the call is to really ask a couple of qualifying questions and then set the appointment, that call shouldn’t go on more



than five minutes. If you want to take the conversation a little bit deeper and really qualify this individual, that could go on for 15 or 20 minutes.

Robert: I don’t want to meet with someone when it’s going to be a waste of time if they’re not well qualified or if they’re not showing an interest in what I have. They need to have some interest and be, at least in my evaluation, a good potential buyer.

Steve: Exactly.

Robert: People call me all the time and try to make appointments. I’m pretty good at deflecting appointments. One reason is that they don’t really get to know me too well. It seems they’re going for the appointment, but are they really interested in me? If they’re not, I’m not making an appointment with them.

Steve: I couldn’t agree with you more.

Robert: I value my time very highly, so if someone wants to meet with me it has to be something I’m already thinking of and maybe want to explore. The situation is really different person to person.

Steve: It’s very different from person to person, and it really comes back to am I asking the right questions of the right person to produce the right results to see if they’re qualified? Having worked with thousands of marketers, individual entrepreneurs and professionals, the biggest thing I see is that they waste a lot of time driving around the city talking to the wrong people who really aren’t interested or qualified for their services.



Robert: On this initial call, you’ve said some of the right things, especially, “The purpose of my call is ___” so that they’re clear, and then, “Can I ask you a few questions?” Then you ask some questions and get into the conversation. Tell me some of the things people tend to say in these calls that sabotage the call?

Steve: Weak words. We all have negative speech habits, such as the uhs, ums, you-knows, okey-dokeys, you-betchas and all that verbal garbage that comes out of our mouths.

I try to communicate to people to think of themselves as artists. How we communicate as an artist is with paint, brushes and canvas. Think of the words we use as the paint. Think of the brushes as how we say those words, and the what is the final picture. The words plus the how equals the picture. The words play a very important part in every conversation.

Don’t start a conversation with “I was just wondering.” Look up the word “wondering” in the dictionary. It means to convey doubt. We don’t want to convey doubt. We want to eliminate all those weak words from our conversation and be very clear about our purpose.

Robert, you said if this person calling you doesn’t really take an interest in you, and they’re not asking questions or engaging you, then you’re not going to waste your time meeting with this person. The same holds true for us as professionals. We need to be clear, concise and consistent about why we’re calling somebody, the message we’re trying to convey and that we truly have this person at the center of the conversation.



We need to eliminate the weak words, and we need to ask really great questions. The conversation shouldn’t go on for 45 minutes because nobody has 45 minutes to waste in a situation like that.

I’m a big believer in scripts, and I don’t mean the kind of scripts that those telemarketers use when they call us during the middle of dinner. I mean knowing your words forward, backward, inside and out so when you step on the stage you’re ready to give what you want to say in a very concise manner.

Robert: That definitely makes sense. One of the reasons I think people are afraid to make these calls is they feel, “I have to call, and I’ll be selling them right away,” but we’re not really doing any selling on this call. We’re just inquiring, exploring, and qualifying.

Steve: We’re trying to identify if this person is even qualified and just convey a very clear and concise message to them.

Robert: Then I throw you for a loop and say, “Before we meet, can you tell me a little bit more about how your services work?” How can you answer that without putting me off or telling too much?

Steve: That’s one of the biggest challenges salespeople face. Some people call it a value proposition. You’ve heard an elevator pitch. I call it a unique message.

I help people craft a message that is maybe two sentences. It doesn’t matter if you’re at a social gathering, network event or on the phone. If somebody asks what you do specifically, what do we say that’s clear, concise, and consistent? It really revolves around you and I being



motivated by pain and pleasure. What do we help our prospect eliminate, reduce, avoid, remove, or diminish?

On the other side of that, what do we help them increase, expand, maximize, strengthen, and build up? Maybe I’ve made a presentation and I’m following up with somebody who says, “What do you do and how do you work?”

I say, “We’ve really created a unique approach that will help eliminate a lot of the frustrations when prospecting and following up while at the same time maximizing your effectiveness when you’re following up. Ultimately you’ll set more appointments.” I have at least a dozen of those unique messages. That answers the first part of your question.

Then they want to know how you work. When they ask how I work, I never talk about money because every situation is different. I typically come back to the reason for the call. “That is the reason why I wanted to set an appointment with you so we can explore different possibilities to see if there’s even a good match for our businesses. Is that fair enough?”

Robert: You don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of process. “I do a two-day workshop, and then I do this and that.” The message you gave me, which I call an ultimate outcome, and your core marketing message, are very much the same. It’s very outcome oriented. “We help you get this kind of result,” is what you’re talking about.

I say, “I help self-employed professionals like you attract more of their ideal clients through better marketing, follow-up and selling processes.” I might mention that, but I’m not going to go into everything I do. I can



extrapolate that a bit, but you don’t want to go into too much detail.

Steve: Detail bores people, and you end up confusing them. I learned this from a strategic coach in Chicago. Dan Sullivan is actually in Toronto. He talked about the front stage and the back stage. When you see a play in New York City, you don’t care about what’s going on in the back stage. All you care about is the performance on the front stage.

Dan Sullivan was a master at helping us identify what our prospect and customer wants to see on the front stage. Often, we as marketers or self-employed professionals, get so caught up in communicating the details that we end up confusing people, and confused people will not respond to take action.

Robert: Talking about one’s process, there’s no “What’s in it for me?” in a process. You just do.

After you’re way further on in the sales conversation, you can explain how it works, but that’s too early in the conversation.

Steve: I agree.

Robert: One of the things to remember about this, that you’re getting across really well, is that when you’re making this follow-up call, you’re really not doing any selling. You’re exploring.

Steve: You are exploring the opportunities.

Robert: That’s less likely to get rejection. If you called and said, “I have this great workshop that I think you should do, and



let me tell you all about it,” you’re immediately going to get resistance.

Steve: You’re going to immediately get resistance because we’ve all had those calls. The walls go up.

Robert: You get to know the person. You ask them questions, and then if it seems appropriate, you say, “Let’s have an appointment.” What will happen in that appointment?

Steve: What comes back from your appointment is how you approach everything. What’s the purpose of the appointment? What do you specifically want to accomplish in that appointment? Have you prepared yourself for it? What are the questions you have not asked that you need to ask?

I look at questions like a jigsaw puzzle. We’ve all put together a jigsaw puzzle at some point in our life. What’s on the cover of the box? It’s the picture. We open the box, spread the pieces all over the table and with each piece that we put together the picture becomes clearer. That’s how I look at questions.

I’m always thinking in the back of my mind, “What don’t I know about this person?” or “What don’t I know about this person’s pain or situation that I really need to find out so that I can provide the correct solution, of if I’m even the correct solution for them?”

Robert: I don’t know if we want to get into the whole sales process in this conversation. I want to get back into the methodology for prospecting to get up to that appointment. Can we back up a little bit to a few different situations?



Steve: Sure.

Robert: Networking or meeting somebody socially, somebody says, “What do you do?” Hopefully we answer with our marketing message instead of our process. How do you comfortably get a card from someone so that they can expect that you’ll follow up? I also want to say that I’ve met a lot of people that I’ve had good conversations with where I’ve said, “I’d like to know more,” and then I never hear from them again.

Tell me some kinds of the systems that you use just to keep things organized. You come back from an event or get a whole bunch of cards after a talk. How do you organize all that so that all these people don’t fall between the cracks? It’s not very impressive if somebody calls you three weeks later and says, “We met at the Chamber three weeks ago.” You’ve forgotten the person by then, and you’ve really missed an opportunity.

Steve: The first thing I do within 24 hours after I collect a business card at an event is send them a handwritten thank-you note thanking them for the opportunity to meet them. “I really appreciate the conversation that we had. If you ever have any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out to me.”

I’ve been doing this for 30 years, and I remember what my mentor taught me. He said, “Send out three handwritten thank-you notes every day.” If you think about that, that’s 15 a week or 60 for the month. That’s 720 handwritten thank-you notes a year. Do you think that out of 720 handwritten thank-you notes a year you’d be able to add some new clients out of that? I think so.



Robert: It definitely can warm up the connection or relationship. We may get to this later, but there are a lot of people who connect through LinkedIn or something like that rather than in person.

Steve: We can definitely go down that path. The first thing I do is send them a handwritten thank-you note. The second thing I do is scan their business card into a tool that I absolutely love called Evernote. Evernote is a cross-platform tool that helps me stay organized. It helps me capture everything.

I scan the business card in the Evernote. I may make a few notes about our conversation, such as where I met this person. Then I schedule a follow-up call in my to-do list or calendar. On a specific day their name will come up, and I’ll call them on that specific day. Then I don’t have to think about it.

Robert: This is maybe a couple days after they’ve gotten your thank-you note.

Steve: Yes. Within a week I follow up with a phone call.

Robert: Have you ever experimented with email versus thank-you note?

Steve: Yes, I have. This is a personal thing. I prefer sending out a handwritten thank-you note because it separates me from everybody else. I saw a statistic the other day that on average there are 2.6 million emails sent every minute of every day, so I like to personalize it.

Having said that, if I connected and engaged with somebody on LinkedIn when all I have is their email



address, then I’m going to send a nice little email thanking them for their time. That will replace the handwritten thank-you note.

Robert: You want to go online somewhere and buy a whole passel of thank-you notes to send to be ready to do that if you’re really serious about this.

Steve: I actually have them custom printed with my logo so people don’t forget me.

Robert: An interesting thing is that I will meet 10 people at a networking event. Three of them I think are good prospects, and the others I just have a short conversation with, but I feel there was no real connection. Do you follow up with everybody or just those three?

Steve: I send a handwritten thank-you note to everybody I felt that I had a really good connection with. Let’s say out of 10 you got three where you felt you had a really strong connection with some synergies there, and maybe there was a connection with three that maybe wasn’t as deep. I may send them handwritten thank-you notes and then just put the others in my follow-up file.

Robert: You have to make some discrimination. I’ve given talks where I’ve gotten as many as 250 cards. I am not going to write thank-you notes to 250, but I send them all an email. We transcribe all the names and send them an email saying, “Thank you for being at the call. Here’s a link to get the article that I promised.”

You have a follow-up system using Evernote. Then you just schedule that call and make it. I’m sure you’ve trained people where you’ve heard, “Where do you find the time



to do this? I’m so busy. I don’t get around to people, and then I get behind on this. Then it just falls apart.” What are some of your disciplines in making sure it actually works?

Steve: I had the opportunity to meet Jim Rohn in 1990 and again in 1994. In my opinion, he is one of the greatest business philosophers. I’ll never forget what he said. He said, “You can go to the beach today and have fun today, or you can discipline yourself today, and tomorrow you can own the beach.” That always stuck with me.

If you have an appointment with a very important individual, aside from a natural disaster or your car breaking down, will you make that appointment, Robert?

Robert: Yes.

Steve: Great. We need to take that same attitude with prospecting and follow-up calls. I call it “block and tackle.” You block out when you’re going to make the calls, just like you have an appointment with some very important person, and you make the calls.

You don’t prepare to make the calls during that time. You actually prepare on another time. Friday afternoons from 1:00 to 4:00 or 1:00 to 5:00, and sometimes Saturday mornings, I will plan and prepare the entire next week for who I’m going to see, when I’m going to see them, what calls I have to make and when I need to make them. I block out time in my calendar, and then Monday morning I get up and just execute the plan. That is the best way, and it comes back to the discipline.



What I’ve learned about marketing and sales is it’s a highly disciplined activity repeated day after day.

Robert: Until it just becomes natural, normal and not so fear inducing.

Steve: That’s exactly right.

Robert: You often make your calls on a Monday?

Steve: I block out two days during the week on Tuesdays and Thursdays to make my calls. I have created what I call an “ultimate week.” I do certain activities on certain days. Mondays and Wednesdays are what I call my focus days when I’m working on the business, not in the business. There’s a huge distinction between those two. I’m strategizing, coming up with new ideas and creating new programs.

Tuesdays and Thursdays are the days that I prospect. I meet with clients and prospects, have webinars and teleconferences, and do private coaching and workshops.

Fridays are my buffer days when I’m doing planning and preparation, follow-up emails and all the stuff that gets put off until the end of the week.

Robert: You’re actively engaged in this prospecting process, and it never really lets up.

Steve: It can’t.

Robert: I laughed when you said you own the beach because now I own a condo on a beach.

Steve: You disciplined yourself well.



Robert: Yes, I did. I learned a lot of this stuff myself, and I heartily agree with it. Sometimes our style might be a little different, but there’s that friendly persistence, organization and follow-through. You just do it like eating breakfast, lunch and dinner. That’s just what you do to maintain your business.

I’m very disciplined, but I forget that as good as I am I don’t always reach someone. In fact I’ve often said that the hardest part of this process is just reaching somebody. Do you leave voicemail messages? Do you say you’ll follow up later? Do you not leave a message? How do you handle the voicemail challenge?

Steve: I always leave a voicemail because nobody can communicate your message better than you. Marketers, salespeople and independent professionals ask the same question that you’ve asked. They say, “Nobody ever calls me back.” I ask, “Would you call you back?”

They look at me funny. “Well, what do you mean?” I ask, “Well, would you call you back? What kind of a message did you leave? Was it compelling? Did you motivate the person to call you back, or did you find yourself in the middle of a voicemail not prepared? Did your voicemail go on and on, and did it make any sense? By the way, when you left your phone number, how fast did you talk so the person had to rewind the message 15 times to call you back?”

I have a three-step process that I’ve created that comes from having left over 25,000 voicemail messages. Testing different things that don’t work.



Step 1 in leaving a voicemail is to leave your name, company name and phone number. You may help them relive the past. An example is, “Hi, Robert. This is Steve Kloyda with The Prospecting Expert. You may recall that we met at a recent networking event at the local Chamber. My telephone number is 612-454-1426.” I always slow down when I leave my phone number.

I have found that by leaving your phone number up front you automatically engage the person. Let’s face it. When you check your voicemail and hear the phone number, you automatically write it down. You want to engage them at the beginning of the voicemail.

Step 2 is your purpose. State why you're calling this person.

Step 3 is to ask for a callback. Don’t ask for a meeting. Don’t tell them you're going to call them back because then there’s no reason for them to call you.

State your purpose why you’re calling, and then follow up with Step 3 by asking for a callback. “Robert, please give me a call back at your earliest convenience so that we can explore if there’s even a good fit for you and I to work together. Again, this is Steve Kloyda with The Prospecting Expert. My telephone number is ____. I want to thank you, Robert, for taking the time to listen to my voicemail message. I look forward to talking with you soon.”

It’s that simple.

Robert: That’s great. How long do you wait if they don’t call you back?



Steve: A week to two weeks.

Robert: That long?

Steve: Yes. I’ll call back within a week. It really depends upon the situation. It depends upon where I met this person. There are a lot of different things involved, but I won’t call anybody back prior to a week, typically. I don’t want to guilt somebody. If I’ve had a really good conversation with this person and they’ve invited me to call them back, I might call them back in two or three days, but typically I wait a week.

Let’s face it. We’re all busy and being pulled in 25 million different directions. When you call back and leave another voicemail message, you don’t want to say, “Hi, Robert. I left you a message. How come you haven’t called me back?” Don’t do stuff like that.

Robert: No. Do you ever double up and send an email message if you don’t reach them?

Steve: Yes. If you have their email address, it’s a two-pronged approach. I may call and leave a voicemail. I may follow up with an email the same day or a day after, or I may send them an email first and then follow up with a voicemail.

Look at the tools we have. You need to utilize all these tools to connect and engage.

Robert: One thing I try to do if I want to meet with someone is I’ll send that email, and then I’ll suggest a few times when I’m open to talk. That’s my biggest challenge. When people call me, they rarely meet me because I’m doing



back-to-back appointments most days of the week, except Monday. I’ll tell them to call me between 11:30 and 12:00, or something like that.

Steve: Have you ever heard of a service called Time Trade?

Robert: No, I haven’t.

Steve: www.TimeTrade.com is a phenomenal service. It avoids all email and voicemail tag. I think it’s about $45 or $55 a year. You can market it or brand it to your brand. If somebody reaches out and sends me an email saying, “I heard about you, and I’d really like to connect and engage with you. When can we talk?” I’ll send them a link to my Time Trade account.

I’ve already predetermined times that I will take calls during the week. All they do is click on that link and schedule a time. It emails me when the appointment is set, emails them a reminder, and we’re good to go.

Robert: That’s great. I’ve heard a lot of different calendar-type systems like that. Some are free. Usually I find the ones that you pay for are better.

Steve: Yes. I’ve been using this for over a year and one-half, and I’ve eliminated all voicemail and email tag. It’s wonderful.

Robert: That’s a great resource.

Let’s talk a little about taking advantage of chance connections that can turn into business. I’m sure that has happened to you.

Steve: Define chance connections for me a little bit.



Robert: You’re at a social event, such as a wedding, and you’re talking to somebody. You’re at a conference, but that’s kind of a networking thing as well. In those situations, how do you turn that into a conversation and a follow-up? Is it any different than a networking gathering?

Steve: In a social gathering I’m always very sensitive. We’ve all been to networking events where somebody comes in with a big neon sign saying, “This is who I am. This is what I do, and I’m going to sell you today.”

In every networking and social gathering I engage people by asking questions. I talk about them. I ask questions about them, about what they do, how they do it and their family. “Do you have kids? What do you like doing outside of work?” Eventually the conversation comes around to, “Well, Steve, what do you do?”

Robert: That’s brilliant. Saying your message after you’ve learned about them makes it a lot easier for you to know what to say.

Steve: Then you tailor it to the conversation. I call this the “by the way.” It’s a way to transition a conversation by using these three little words. When we used to drive a stick shift, you had the clutch, put the clutch in and shifted it from first to second gear.

In these conversations in these social settings, after I’ve engaged them and we’ve had a conversation for 10 or 15 minutes where I’ve asked them a lot of questions, I know something about them and their family. I’ll say, “By the way, if I wanted to connect with you outside of here, how would I do that?” I’ll get the business card, or they’ll give



me their phone number or email address, and I’ll write it down. I always have a pen with me.

I like to do it that way, rather than walking up to someone and saying. “Hey, you need to have my business card.” I like to collect their information, and then I send them a handwritten thank-you note with my business card. That continues the conversation and the relationship.

Robert: That’s great. The next thing I want to ask you about is referrals. I want to put that into context. There are certain situations when this is easy, which is when they call you. “Joe Blow says you’re the best thing since sliced bread, and I think we need your services.” If you lose that, you don’t deserve to be in selling.

Not quite as good, but someone goes to your website and fills out a form or gives you a call, so that marketing has worked to some degree. That’s usually an easier call, and you can turn that into a meeting.

Sometimes referrals are tricky. Do you have a referral system, and how do you work that referral system? How do you follow up? Do you try to get an introduction from the person that referred you, etc.?

Steve: Yes. There are a couple different ways. I use LinkedIn a lot. On LinkedIn I will look at one of my connections to see who they’re connected to. Then when I see somebody that they’re connected to that I’d really like an introduction to, I simply send them an InMail and say, “Robert, I notice that you’re connected to Joe Smith. Would you mind introducing me to Joe?” “Oh, not at all, Steve. I’d be happy to do that.” That’s one way that I do that.



As I mentioned earlier in the conversation, 89% of the marketers or professionals won’t ask for referrals. I’ve developed a very simple approach to asking for a referral that I learned many years ago from my mentor.

I simply start out by asking, “Can you do me a favor?” If you ask somebody that question, 95% of the time they will say, “Well, that depends. What do you need?” “Who do you know, Robert, that I should be talking to about the type of work I do, somebody like yourself, a nice person?” I even help them to identify my ideal client.

It’s simply asking questions. I also may take it to the next level, depending upon the relationship. There are three steps to it. The first is, “Can you do me a favor?” Step 2 is asking, “Who do you know that I should talk to?” It depends upon the kind of relationship I have with this person, but they may say, “Well, I can’t really think of anybody.”

Depending upon our relationship, I may say, “Well, Robert, pretend you and I are at a networking event having a conversation and maybe a glass of wine and some cheese and crackers, and a friend of yours walks up. Would you introduce me to them?” “Well, of course I would, Steve.”

“Well, Robert, that’s all I’m asking for today is an opportunity to be introduced to somebody like you. I’ve always treated you with respect. You can rest assured that I will treat them with the same respect that I’ve always treated you. Is that fair enough?” After that question, if they’re still resistant, I let it go.



Part of referrals is having centers of influence. I have several centers of influence that I’ve worked with over the last 20 years who refer business to me on a pretty consistent basis. Developing centers of influence is about helping them grow their business. It’s not about what you can get from them. It’s all on how you can help them.

Robert: We’ve covered a lot of stuff. Did we cover the mistakes salespeople make when they prospect?

Steve: I would say the biggest mistake is they’re not prepared to get on the phone. They wing it. They’re not really asking the right questions, and then they don’t ask for action at the end of the follow-up call. What do you want this person to do? It’s the same with email. What are you asking them to do? That’s really the biggest mistake I’ve seen marketers or independent professionals make.

Robert: It makes sense.

You have something that you call the Wizard of Oz Sales Process. Why don’t we end with that? Tell me what that is?

Steve: We’ve all seen “The Wizard of Oz.” Have you seen it?

Robert: Of course.

Steve: We all have children, and at some point we’ve seen the movie maybe 500 times. I think that movie has taught us almost everything we need to know about marketing and prospecting.

In the movie there were five major questions that were answered. These are the five major questions that I teach self-employed professionals, salespeople and marketers.



What is the purpose of the call? Who is the right person that I need to talk to? Who is this individual that I’m talking to? What is the game plan? In other words, what do I want to learn about this person? What is the game plan to help me and them accomplish the purpose? What is the potential solution for this individual?

We may not know it in the initial conversation, and then when they come to a meeting, what is the next step? What is the follow-up?

If we look at “The Wizard of Oz,” what was Dorothy’s primary purpose throughout that entire movie, Robert? I’m going to test you a little bit.

Robert: No problem. It was to get to the Emerald City, but that was so she could get back to Kansas.

Steve: There you go. It was to get back home. The purpose of the call or meeting is to keep the purpose of the call or meeting. Dorothy lands in Munchkin Land. She lands on the wicked witch and kills her.

Glinda comes into the picture and says, “What do you need?” and Dorothy says, “I need to get back home. How do I do that?” “You need to go see the wizard in Emerald City.” Who was the right person that Dorothy originally sought to help her get home? It was the wizard.

The next question Dorothy asked Glinda is, “How do I get there?” That’s the game plan. How did she get from Munchkin Land to Emerald City?

Robert: The yellow brick road.



Steve: Follow the yellow brick road. That’s your script, agenda and outline. She left Munchkin Land, but Glinda did not tell her about all the obstacles she was going to encounter as a marketer.

She didn’t tell her that she was going to run into the wicked witch and the wicked witch was going to light the scarecrow on fire. She didn’t tell them about the monkeys, the lion, or the frozen tin man. She didn’t tell her about the poppies in the poppy field. She just said, “You need to go see the wizard in Emerald City.” She painted this beautiful picture, but along the way she encountered many obstacles.

The game plan was to get from Munchkin Land to Oz. They get to Emerald City. She knocks on the door, and the guard sticks his head out the port window and asks, “What can I help you with?” She says, “We’re here to see the wizard,” and his response was, “Nobody sees the wizard.” Dorothy asks, “How do you know one exists?”

He gets frustrated with her and gets ready to close the porthole window when she says, “Wait, wait! Glinda, the good witch, sent me. She said I should come.” He asks, “Well, why didn’t you tell me?”

That is a referral into Emerald City to see the wizard. It’s so much easier when we’re marketing to talk to people who know, like, and trust us. Robert, I’ve heard you say that many times.

They get to see the wizard, and the next question is, “What was the solution the wizard wanted to grant them all their wish? Do you remember?



Robert: I can’t remember that one.

Steve: He said, “You bring me the witch’s broom, and I will grant all your wishes,” so they ran out and got the witch’s broom. The witch melted. They ran back down that long hallway and set the broomstick in front of the wizard. The credits started to roll, and the movie was over, right? No, that didn’t happen.

What was the next step for the lion? Do you remember?

Robert: No, I don’t.

Steve: It was to get courage. That was the whole purpose of why he wanted to see the wizard. The next step for the tin man was to get a heart. The next step for the scarecrow was to get a brain, and the next step for Dorothy was to get back home, which led them right back to the entire purpose of the movie.

That’s why I call it The Wizard of Oz Sales Process. What is the purpose of our call? Who is this individual that we’re speaking with? Are we asking them the right questions to see if they’re even qualified or if there’s a good fit? What is the game plan to follow up with this person after we’ve met them? What is the potential solution?

That comes with our core marketing message when they ask, “What do you do?” We want to make sure that we don’t get into all the details of the back stage.

One of the greatest mistakes I see people make is they’ll end the meeting or phone call without having communicated clearly to the person what the next step is.



Robert: With that, they lived happily ever after.

Steve: They lived happily ever after. It’s a great movie. There are many great things in that movie that can teach us a lot about marketing and sales.

Robert: A lot about intention. After all, Dorothy had a lot of courage in the face of being in a strange place and all these things happening. She just pressed through with a lot of courage, supported by her comrades, etc. I think that’s another thing. Support from your comrades is often useful in this whole process. It’s true. You can learn a lot from that.

Steve, we really covered this well. I really appreciate some of the real specifics about what to say on the call and how to prepare.

Your whole thing about follow-up notes really stood out for me. I interviewed someone years ago who built her business on that whole process of sending follow-up notes and thank-you notes. Her name is Andrea Nierenberg.

You’ve mastered the persistence and organization of this whole process. You’re just not doing it in a random kind of way but in a very systematic way. After a while it becomes easy. You’re closing percentage goes up. You get more appointments, and you make a heck of a lot more money.

This whole process that you’ve outlined is really key. Anything else you want to close with before we wrap up?

Steve: I want to thank you. I really have enjoyed this interview. I love your work, and I love everything that you do. You



have a great message as well. I would like to leave your listeners with one final note of what Doc said to Marty in “Back to the Future III.” He said, “Your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one.” Thank you, Robert.

Robert: If people would like to find out more about Steve and his services, they can go to www.TheProspectingExpert.com. We’ll include that link below your bio. Check him out. He does coaching and offers a lot of things. He has a whole bunch of podcasts you can listen to. He has done over 60 of them, so you can learn a lot from Steve. He’s really an expert in this area.

Thank you very much, and good luck in your business.

Steve: Thank you so much, Robert. Have a great day.

the art of prospecting and follow-up 1actionplan.com/pdf/skloyda_12.pdfspeaking,” then what?...

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