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Transcript – Energy, Sex & Eating Insects - Tim Ferriss - #354

Bulletproof Radio Tim Ferriss #354

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Female: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today'sepisodeisaremasteredversionofoneofthebestinterviewsI'vedonetodate.You'retotallygoingtoloveitandIpromiseyouthatIwillnottakeyourtimetodirectyourattentiontosomethingthatisn'tabsolutelystellar,soenjoythisepisode.We'veremastereditforyou.Whatthisisdoingisit'sfreeingupalittlebitoftimeformetofinishthenewbook,andit'salsomakingsurethatyou'veseenthemostimportant,mostimpactful,mostusefulcontent,becauseIbelieve,reallydeeplywithBulletproofRadio,thatgiventhatwe'repushing50milliondownloads,thenumberofhoursthatareconsumedjustlisteningtoBulletproofRadioismorethan100humanlifetimes.That'skindofabigresponsibility.I'mnotgoingtowasteyourtime-notwithnumberslikethat-sothisisoneofthoseinterviewsthatyouabsolutelyhavetohear.

Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatentomophagistsarehumanswhoeatinsects,andthereareabout1,000typesofinsectsknowntobeeatenin80%oftheworld'scultures.Fromanutritionalperspective,grasshoppersandcricketshaveabout14to28gramsofproteininthreeandahalfounces,butifyoulikeyourinsectstotastelikebacon,youshouldtrytheAfricanpalmweevil-whichIhaven’ttriedyet,butIwould-whicharecommonlyeatenintheirlarvalform,andtheytastelikebaconwhichiswhateverythingshouldtastelikewhenwegetbaconworlddominationtohappen.

Here'ssomethingyououghttoknowaboutsecurity.Youputlocksonyourhome,youbuyhomeinsurance,youhaveanalarmonyourcar,andyoubuycarinsurance.You'veworkedhardtobuildyourbusinessbutyoudon'thavecyber-insurancetoprotectit.Smallbusinesseslikeyoursareespeciallyvulnerabletocyberattacks.Over40%ofcyberattacksin2015targetedsmallbusinesses,and60%ofthosesmallbusinessesattackedclosedwithinsixmonths.LetCyberPolicykeepyousafe.CyberPolicyisthefirstend-to-endsolutionthatcombinescyberplanning,security,andinsurance,customizedforasmallbusiness.WithCyberPolicy,yourbusinesswouldbeprotectedagainstcyberattacks.Getpeaceofmindforaslittleas40centsaday.Secureyourbusiness.Visitcyberpolicy.comandgetacustomquoteinjustfourminutes.Look,it'snotamatterofifsomehackerisgoingtoattempttoattackyourcompany.It'saquestionofwhen.Plan,prevent,insurewithCyberPolicy.com.

Today’sguestneedsnointroduction,althoughI’llintroducehimbriefly.HeisTimFerriss,theNewYorkTimesBestSellingAuthorofthreebooks,includingThe4-HourWorkWeek,4-HourBody,4-HourChef.He’sbeenalloverthemedia.Morethan100outlets.HelecturesatPrinceton.He’saworld-championtangoguy,Chinesekickboxer,anactoronahitTVseriesinHongKong,andbasicallyanall-aroundasskicker.Tim,welcometotheshow,man.

Tim: Thanksforhavingme.

Dave: You’vegotanewpodcastofyourown.What’sitsname?Justsopeoplewhoarelisteningtothis,whowouldallloveyourpodcast,canjustdownloaditrightnow?


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Tim: Yeah,forsure.It’sTheTimFerrissShow,whichsoundsverysortofegomaniacal.Iwasthinking

ofalotofotherthingslikeTheTimFerrissExperience,Experiment,youfillintheblank,butIdidn’twantittobemistakenfor,say,aJoeRogantagalongorsomethinglikethat,soTheTimFerrissShowitis.It'sfiveepisodes.Theideaisjustapplyingthe80-20principletodissectinghowpeoplewhoarethebestatwhattheydoorworldclass,dowhattheydo.Thatrangesfromchessprodigies,thebasisforSearchingforBobbyFischerlikeJoshWaitzkin,totechinvestorstofilmmakers,screenwriters,musicians,andeverythinginbetween.That’sit.

Dave: It’skindofanamazingideatojustaskthepeoplewhoaregoodatstuff,howtheydoit,insteadofhavingtoslogthroughityourself.That’skindofcheating,Tim-Ferrissstyle,inawaythatIrespectgreatly.Areyouacheater?

Tim: Iwouldn’tsayacheater.IthinkthatthecontentthatI’velostbynotrecordingtheaudioandvideofor,say,theresearchforThe4-HourBodyisoneexample,makesmesad.Itmakesmeirritatedwithmyselfsometimes,becausetheprocessofunearthingthesehiddengemsisreallyjustaprocessofaskingbetterquestionsoraskinguncommonquestions.TheinterviewsthatIdoonTheTimFerrissShowareexactlythat.It’sshowinghowIaskaseriesofquestionsofthesepeoplewhoaretopperformers-inmanycasesveryunorthodoxtopperformers-sothatIcanfindthingsthatcanbereplicated.It’sverymuchalongthelinesofalotofthestuffthatyoudoaswell,andtoshowpeoplethatit’snotasuper-humangifttofigurethesethingsout.It’sabettertoolkit.That’sallitis.

Dave: (chuckles)Toolsmakeusmorehumanthannot.Allright.Ididn’tthinkweweregoingtojumpintothisrightaway,butyoujustsaidsomethingthattriggeredit.Ihavethistheorythatlikeagazillionyearsago-wewon’tgointoexactlyhowmanyyearsago-therewerethesetwocavemen,andoneofthemcamebackwithfirefromalightningstrike,andhesaid,“Iwillkeepcavewarm,augh.”Or“Grock,”actually,andashoutouttoMarkSissonthere.Thentheotherguywaslike,“Thatmightnotbesafe.Let’snotuseit.”Oneofthosetwocavemenisourancestor,right?(laughs)"It’scold,Idied."Aresmartdrugslikefire?

Tim: Ithinktheyactuallyare.That’sagreatanalogy.Ithinkthey’relikefireorthey’relikeareallysharpchef’sknife.Ithinkthattheycanbeusedforbenefitandtheycancertainlybeusedtoseverelydamageyourselfandotherpeople.Ithinkthatthedosemakesthepoison,right?Acontrolledfireisonething,versusafirethatconsumesyourhouseandeveryoneinit.Thejudiciousandintelligentuseof,say,ascalpelorakitchenknifeisonething,asopposedtorunningwithapairofscissors,andlanding,andhavingitgothroughyourhead.Youcanlookatuseofsmartdrugsandfindbothgoodexamples-informedexamplesofuse-andveryhaphazardexamplesofuse.Alotofitcomesdownto,numberone,doingyourhomework,andnumbertwo,experimentingandhavingsomeabilitytotrack.Inmycase,Idoveryextensivebloodtesting,amongotherthings,andtendnottogomorethanfourtoeightweekswithoutbloodtesting.

Dave: Wow.You’rethatoften,huh?Weeks?

Tim: Yeah.Yeah,Idoitreally,reallyfrequently.


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Dave: Isthatthefullwellnesseffectspanel?Iknowwe’rebothadvisorsonWellnessFx.Doyoudothe

fullone?

Tim: Yeah,IdothefullCadillac,everything.I’mdoinganotherdrawthisFriday,forinstance,becauseIdidalloflastmonthwithoutalcoholandhavemadeacoupleofchangestomydiet,andIwanttoseewhattheeffectsarebeforeIgetfullybackintotheswingofbourbon,andwine,andallthatstuff.

Dave: Iamsointriguedaboutthoseresults.You’regoingtoblogaboutthatobviously,right?

Tim: Yeah,IthinkI’llprobablywriteabeforeandafter.

Dave: Whenyoudo,assoonasIseeitI’llretweetthat,becauseI'vebeenwritingalotaboutwhataldehydespikesintheliverdoandwhatyoucandotoworkonthat.AlotofpeopleareusingtheglutathionethatImake,toreducethatspike,orthey’retakingmassesofvitaminCandallthatjusttohavelessofahangover,butI'vefoundfrommyown...Morefromcognitiveabilities,andreallyfromthevisuallabsIeat,Igrowamuffintop.WhenIdrink,Ijustdon’tperformaswellforaboutfourdays,likemybrainjustisn’tquiteperfect.Idon’tremembereverywordthatshouldjustflow-liketheystick-anditdrivesmenuts,soIjustdecidedit’snotreallygoingtoworkandIcan’tbiologicallyjustifyitinawaythatmakessenseasapositive,so,god,I’msointriguedatyourresults.That’sgoingtobeanepicpost.

Tim: Yeah.I’mexcitedaboutitandtocomebacktosomethingelsethatyoumentionedalso,Ithinkthatthewaywe’retalkingaboutsmartdrugs,andasyouknowI’vetriedamilliondifferentthingsashaveyou,soranging...Imeanwecouldgetintoit,[Vaspress00:08:26]andHydergine,younameit,Modafinil,I’vetriedalotofthese.IgenerallyhavetwoassumptionswhenI’mdoingexperiments.Thefirstis,oneImentioned,whichisthedosemakesthepoison.Ittendstobe,let’sjustsay,aninvertedwork...No,it’smoreofabell-shapedcurveofeffectandsideeffect.Inmymind,they’retypicallyrathercorrelated,whereatsomepoint,thedose-to-benefitratioisoff.Youcouldtakesomethingthat’sthoughtofasveryinnocuouslikewater,andyoucankillsomeonethroughover-consumptionofwater.It’sactuallyverycommoninmarathonsbecausepeopleviewdehydrationasthisdemon,whichhasbeen,ofcourse,propagandizedbyalotofcompanieslikeGatorade,sotheyover-consumeandthendilutetheirelectrolytebalancetothepointwheretheirheartcannolongerfunction.

VitaminCisanotherexample.I’mahugeproponentandconsumerofvitaminC,butthefactofthematteris,ifyoudoanIVdripofvitaminCandyouput100gramsintosomeoneoverashortenoughperiodoftime,alotofpeoplewillgointoadiabeticcomaandpotentiallydiefromtheexperience-sothedosemakesthepoisoniskindofnumberone.

Thennumbertwois,Ijustassume-andthismaybeaccurate,itmaynotbe-thatthere’stypicallynobiological-freelunch.Ifthere’sastrongeffect-there’stypicallyasideeffect,orsideeffects,orunknowneffects-youmightwanttosay,whichcanbebeneficialorbeverydeleterious,ifyoudon’tknowwhattheyare,it’syourjobtofigureoutwhattheyare.That’stypicallyhowIthinkaboutthesethings.


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Dave: Itsoundslikeyou'vecomefromaworldoflotsofexperienceexperimentingwithsmartdrugs.

TheoneIwasmostconcernedaboutwasModafinil,becauseItookitprettymuchdailyatvaryingdosesforeightyears.Itreallychangedmyworld,becauseIdidnotunderstandthecorebiologyaboutwhyIwasn’tperformingthewayIwantedto.IwasgoingtoworkandIwasworkingfulltimeatastart-upthatwesoldfor$600million,andIwasburningthecandleatbothendsandtwoplacesinthemiddle,right?IfeltlikemaybeIamcheating,sobeforeatestIwouldputtheVasopressin,andtheHydergine,andtheModafinilonthedeskinfrontofme.I’mlike,it’sonlydopingifyoudon’ttelleveryonesotheyhaveafairadvantage.Whethersomeofmycolleaguesinschoolmighthaveoccasionallytakensomenon-prescriptionsmartdrugs,forme,isuptothemtotalkabout,butIdidn’twanttobethatguywhowascheating,soIdecidedtobepublic.ModafinilwasmyLinkedInprofile10yearsago.I’mlike,I’mjustgoingtoputitinhere,likeallthingsdisclosed,right?WhatdoyouthinkthedownsidesofModafinilare?Ifyou’refamiliarenoughwiththepharmacologyofit.Idon’tknow.

Tim: I’velookedatProvigil’sModafinil.I’velookedatNuvigil.I’mhonestlynotfamiliarenoughwiththepharmacokineticsandtheactualbiochemistryofModafiniltohaveafantasticallyinformedconversationaboutit.Idorecallatonepoint-andI’dloveforyoutocorrectmeifI’mwrong-thatasisthecaseoftentimeswithevenprescriptionmedications,sometimesthemechanismsarenotentirelyunderstood.Theyarehypothesizedtoworkinacertainway,butnotexactlyunderstood,andthatcanoftenrelateto,say,anewtargetofsometype,sotheyactasanagonistoranantagonistforreceptor.Theymaybepoorlyunderstoodorpartiallyunderstood.

Modafinil,I’veusedbeforeandithasspectacularresults.Itreallydoes.Itperformsasadvertised.Iactuallybecamefamiliarwithitalongtimeagowhenitwasbeingusedbysprinterswithnarcolepsy,andalsosincethatrun...Thosetwocorrelatesohighly.Military,whoofcourseareverywell-knownforusinguppersanddowners.They'veusedlikegreenies,amethamphetamineplusanynumberofdifferentsleepingmedicationstoturnthemoff.

ModafinilisoneofthosedrugsthatIseemtohaveacertainsensitivityto,muchlike-andthisisverycommon-Viagra.Youhavetobeverycarefulwith,let’ssay,vasodilatorsorconstrictors.Igetaverysharppain,likeaveryacutemigraine-likepain,fromusingModafinilformorethanoneday.Thattomeisacuejusttobevery,verycarefulandparticularlywhenitrelatestoanytypeofcerebralsensitivity.Ofcourse,youknowthis,butthat’sbeenreallybroughtintohigh-defformewiththeunfortunatepassingofSethRobertsrecently.

Dave: Iwasshockedtohearthat.

Tim: Yeah,Imean,veryotherwisehealthyguyfromalloutwardindications,dropsdeadonahikingtrailinBerkleyfromwhatappearedtobe-andtheremaybemoreinformationthat’sbroughtthistolight-butIthinkitwasacerebralhemorrhageorsometypeofaneurysm.Therearealotoftheoriesastowhythismayhavehappened.Oneofwhichisthatitappearshewasconsumingtentimesthesuggestedhigher-tolerancedoseforflaxseedoilandothertypesofoils,whichcanbedangerous.There’salotofanecdotalevidencetosupportincreasedfrequencyof,say,intestinalbleedingorstomachbleeding,ifyouconsumemassive,massivequantitiesoffishoil,forinstance.I’mparticularlysensitivetoModafinil,soit’snotsomethingIuseonaveryhighly


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frequentbasis.Oddlyenough,Igetthequestion,“What’syourfavoritesmartdrug?”alot.I’vetried...

Dave: Allofthem.

Tim: Yeah,youlookatmypharmacyIhaveinmyhouseandit’slike,“Well,whatareyoufeelingliketoday?Wouldyoulikephenylpiracetam,oraniracetam,ormaybeyoudon’twanttheracetams.Howabout,whatever?”Ihaveallofthem,butforcreativework,forsynthesisandconnectingdotsImightotherwiseconnect,yerbamateisstillmyfavorite.Imean,yerbamateteaandconsumedoveralongperiodoftime...ThisisanotherpointI’dencouragepeopletothinkabout,isasubstanceorachemicalisahighly...Theeffectofachemicalishighlydependentonitsmeansofadministration,right?Youtake,forinstance,testosterone.Youcouldhaveagel,aninjectable,anoral.Thewaythatthataffectsyourbody,thewaythataffectsyourliver,thewaythatdeterminesdosing,sideeffects,very,verydifferent.Similarlywithyerbamate,youhave,let'ssay,baggedyerbamateforteabags,youhaveicedyerbamatethatyoucangetinready-to-drinkpackages,neitherofwhichgivemetheeffectoffillingagourd.Inthiscase,Iactuallyhaveametalcontainer,asmallmetalcontainer,withtheyerbamateleavesandthensortofsippingitoverthespanof,say,anhourortwo,whichishowtheytraditionallyconsumeitinArgentina,orUruguay,oranyoftheseplaces.

Ithas,atleastbasedonmyunderstanding,ithasthestimulantsyouwouldfindincoffee,right?Methylxanthine,greentea,theophylline,andthendarkchocolateliketheobromine.Youget,therefore,threeverydifferentpharmacokineticprofiles,meaning-forthosepeoplewhodon’tknowtheterm-therateatwhichthosepeakinyourbloodplasma.Forme,Igetatwo-to-three-hoursteady,even-keeled,moderatehigh,cognitively,fromsippingyerbamatethatisjusttheperfectstorm,forme,forwriting.

Dave: You’veinspiredsomething.I’veenjoyedthetasteofyerbamatebutnevergoneafterthehighfromit.OneofthereasonsBulletproofCoffeeworksiswhenyou’reblendingthebutter,andspecificallythebrainoctane,yougetsmallmicellesthatcrossthegutbarriermoreeasily.Theycarryinbasicallythepharmaco-activethingsinthecoffee-thecoffeeoilsandtheotherchemicals.I’mgoingtotryitwithyerbamateandblenditupthatway,toseeifbasicallyIcanboostthelevelsofthosethingsthatgetpastthegut-whichisintriguingandexciting.

Tim: I’lltellyou,actually,I’vedonesomeexperiments.Surprise,surprise.Notwithyerbamate,buttherewasaperiodoftimewhereIwastravelingquiteheavily,andIlovePu-erhteaandIalsolovegreentea.Pu-erh,despitethefactthatit’sdark,tendstobelowerincaffeineorstimulantproperties,soIwouldcombinethePu-erhwiththegreentea,andthenIwouldblenditwithKerryGoldsandasmallamountofMCTs-inthiscase,coconutoil.Iendeduplaterexperimentingwithcaprylicacid.I’mnotsurehowmuchyou’veplayedaroundwithcaprylicacid.

Dave: Thatismy...Brainoctaneismadeoutof...It’sactuallytricaprylic.Youneedtohaveallthreemoleculesintherightplace.

Tim: Adjustingforguttolerance,whichistosayadjustingtoavoiddisasterpants,Iendedupwiththis


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fatteaconcoctionthatreallyseemedtomagnifytheeffectsofthetea,soIcouldgetby.Ihadmystashofteaanditwasgoingtolastaverylimitedperiodoftime,soIwassortofextendingmystashbycombiningthem.Itshouldwork.Thechallenge,I’dbecurioustosee,withyerbamateishowgooditisforcreativity,simplybecausetogetenoughvolumeofyerbamateteatoblenditwiththebutterortheMCTs,wouldnecessitateahigherdoseatonce,ifthatmakessense.You’dhavetosteepitforapotentiallylongerperiodoftime.Anyway,I’llreadaboutit,sodefinitely...

Dave: I’llgoaheadandtryit,becauseIneverthoughtofthatuntilyoujustmentionedthis,sothankyou,Tim.

Tim: Ofcourse.

Dave: That’scool.WhenI’mdoingwriting,probably...Well,BulletproofCoffee.Forsomereason,Igetmostcreativityatnight,sothisisbiologicallydestructive,butifIjustreallywanttodo10,000words,it’slike11pm,BulletproofCoffee,aniracetamstackedwithphenylpiracetam,andsomeCILTEP.I’vebeenhelpingAbelardLindsayoutonpromotingCILTEP.Thatwholecombination,I'mlike,I’mgoodtogo,andit’slikeIjustdisappearandthenlikeeightorninehourslater,there’sallthesewords,andthey’regood,right?Thatkindofflowstate.

Tim: Yeah,definitely,andCILTEPisgreatstuff.IoriginallyconnectedwithAbelard.IendedupmentioningtheCILTEPstackinWiredmagazine.Thiswaswellbeforehewasproducingitwith,Iguess,NaturalStacksasthebrand?He’scloseby,obviously.He’skindofinthebackyardupinNorCal,andIamahugefanofthestack.WhatIfindpersonally,andagain,somuchofthisisdependentonyourindividualbiochemicalsignature,IloveCILTEP.IfIuseit,IjustneedtoensurethatIcanbudgetforlike10to12hoursofsleepthatnight,becauseIneedtoreplenishwhateveritisbeingputintohyper-drive,butforwritingit’sfantastic.Ifoundalso,intermsofpeakcreativestates,andItendtousethewordsynthesisjustbecauseIrealizeforbookwritingmyself-Icoulddotheinterviews,Icoulddotheresearch,Icoulddothegatheringthroughouttheday-buttheonlytimeIactuallyputoutgooddraftsoffinishedcontent,asynthesis,wasbetween,say,10pmandlike5am,whichis,likeyousaid...

Dave: Oh,soyouhavethatsamewindow(chuckles)

Tim: Yeah,it’shorribleforyousociallifeoranyofyourrelationships.WhatInoticeisthatevenpeoplewhowriteearly,tendtodoitbeforetherestoftheworldwakesup.It’sthiskindof10pmtoalike7:30,8amrange,thatseemstobeveryconsistentacrossallthesetopwriters,musicians,artists.Actually,oneofthebooksinmy...Ihaveabookclub,andoneofthebooksthatstruckmewasDailyRituals,whichisaboutthat200ofthesepeople,andit’sextremelyconsistent.Youalmostneverfindsomeonewho’slike,“YeahIdomybestworkafterlunch.”Almostneverhappens.

Dave: Wow.Bytheway,howcanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourbookclub?BecauseIjustgotyourquarterly.copackagethatyoujustsent,kindofunexpectedly,anditwasanawesomeselection.You’recuratingamazingstuffthere,andI’mwalkingaroundalldaylonglearningaboutgripstrength.Thebeginnerone,Icoulddoit.Anyway,youpickoutgoodstuff.Wherecanpeople


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learnaboutthebooksyou’rerecommending,becauseI’mtotallygoingtoreadthose.I’mjoiningyourbookclub.

Tim: Yeah,thebookclubhasbeenreallyfun.I’vebeenbasicallyacquiringrightstobooksthatIthinkareunder-appreciatedandthenpromotingthelivinghelloutofthem.Insomecases,producingaudiobooksandthingslikethat.Ifyoujustgoto...TheblogisFourhourblog.com.F-O-U-R-H-O-U-R-B-L-O-G.comandthenjusteithersearchTimFerrissbookclub-andtherewillbeadedicatedpageshortly-orlookundertopicsandclickonBookClub.Therearefourorfivebooksthusfar.

Thequarterlystuffisreallyfun.Thosearejustobjects,orbooks,oranythingthatIgetobsessedwithandcan’tgetoutofmyhead,Iputintheseboxesforpeopleonceeverythreemonths.Theycancheckthatoutjustatquarterly.co/Tim.

Youmentionedsomething.Iwasworriedaboutmaybegettinghungrywhileweweredoingthis,andit’ssocrazythatthistiesintoyourcoolfactoftheday.Ihavethesethings.I’vebeenexperimenting.I’mnotsureifyou’veseenthese.TheEXOCricketFlourbars.

Dave: I’mmeetingwiththoseguysIthinkinNewYorkorsomewhereinthenextcoupleweeks.Yeah.

Tim: Yeah.GabbyandGregaregreatandthey’reworkingwiththeformerheadofR&DattheFatDuck,whichisthenumberonerankedrestaurantintheworld,todevelopinsectproteinintoanAmericanmainstreamfoodproduct,whichisahugechallenge.I’llbehelpingthem.Thesemayormaynotpopupinyournextquarterlybox.There’sgoingtobealotoffunstuffcoming.

Dave: Ijustgavemykidscricketbarsforthefirsttime.IfoundsomeuphereinCanada.It’snottheEXObrand,butthenexttimeI’mintheStates,I’mdefinitelygoingtobegettingsomeofthosebecauseit’sagoodidea.I’lltellyou,comparedtosoyortofu,I’llbeeatingcricketsalldaylong.

Tim: Ohyeah.What’ssocoolaboutcricketorinsectproteiningeneral...Ithinkthewhatevertheywere,notthewitchettygrubs,butliketheweevilworms,orwhatevertheywerethatyoumentioned,they’reactuallynicknamedjunglebacon-which,Icouldseeabrand.YoucouldsellittoPaleopeopleacrossthecountry.What’ssocoolaboutinsects-andIdidalotofresearchwithinsectsduringThe4-HourChef,Iboughtliveinsectsofalldifferenttypesandmadefoodfromthem-isthatunlikealotof,say,isolateproducts,whichIalsoconsume,butcricketsareveryminimallyprocessed.Youbasicallyjusttakeliveanimals-thisisveryhardtodowithcows,forinstance-andyoujustgrindthemupandthenyouhavethisendproductthathasacompleteamino-acidprofilethatlacksthephytoestrogensandotherthingsthatmightbeofconcernwithalotofcommonsourcesotherwise.ItalsostraddlesthisreallyinterestingworldwherePaleopeopleandveganpeoplegenerallydonotgetalong.Thisisoneofthoserarefoodsourcesthatmightactuallystraddlebothofthem.I’mcurioustoseehowpeoplerespondtoit.

Dave: IgaveatalkatDavidWolfe’sconferencerecently,who'sarawvegankindofguy,andI’vegotalotofrespectforhim.Iusedtobearawvegan,andrawveganscareasmuchaboutfoodqualityasyouorIdo-itreallymatterswhatyouputinyourbody.Theymightjustliketheirvegetablesnotcompressedasmeat.IstoodupandIsaid,“Guys,justaconfession.”Thiswasmyopener.


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“I’malacto,ovo,beefo,porko,vegetarian.”I’mlike,I’meithergoingdowninflamesforthis90-minutetalkorthey’regoingtoloveme.Theaudiencewasreallycool.Italkedaboutbutterandsalt,andwhytheyhaveaplaceinthehumandiet.Endoftheday,Ithinkthere’smorecommonalitybetweenvegansandpaleosthaneithersidewantstothinkabout.I’vemadefunofveganseverynowandthenbecausethey’resofun,butatthesametime,I’vebeenone,soit’salittlebitofself-referential.

Tim: No,agreed.Agreed.Ithinkthepolarextremeshavemoreincommoninalmostanyplacethantheyhaveincommonwiththemoderatesinbetween.That’strueforfansandcriticsaswell.Ifind,forinstance,the...Ifyoulookatyourfanbaseormyfanbase,youfindthesepolarextremesofpeoplewholoveeverythingyouputoutregardlessofwhatitis,andpeoplewhohateeverythingyouputoutregardlessofwhatitis.WhatI’venoticedisthat-andthisisnotalwaysthecase,thisisn’tnecessarilytrueinveganismandpaleo-butthey’rethefastesttoswitch.Ifyouslight,orifoneofyourdie-hardfanshastheperceptionofyouhavingslightedthemormistreatedtheminsomeway,theycanbecomeyourabsoluteworstnightmare.

Conversely,oneofyourdie-hardhaters,ifyoumanagetoconvertthem,canbecomeyourbiggestsupporterandmostvocalsupporter.It’sbeenveryfascinatingtowatchthatkindofstuff.Igetalotofweirdstuffintermsof...Yeah,I’vehaddeaththreatsandallsortsofcraziness,andpeopleaskme,“OhmyGod!Areyouworriedaboutyourhaters?”I’mlike,“Well,Iam,butontheotherhand,I’mactuallyequallyconcernedforthefanswhotrytofollowadvicewithoutdoingtheirownhomeworkandduediligence.”

Dave: Ohyeah,Tim.It’sworrisome,right?Ihadoneguywho’sconsuming22tablespoonsofBrainOctaneadayandI’mlike...He’saskingmeforadviceandI’mlike,“Dude,Ihavenoidea.Youcouldmeltintoajellyfishsubstancetomorrow.Noone’severdonethisinhistoryandIdon’tthinkyouwanttodothatwithyourbody,butIcan’tstopyou.”You’reholdingamantelwhereifyourecommendsomethingandthenitdoesn’tworkoritharmspeople,doyoufeelpersonallyresponsibleforthatatsomelevel?

Tim: WellItryto...Mygeneralprocessfortestingthisstuffis,numberone,Itesteverythingmyself.ThenonceI’vetesteditonmyselfforsafetyfirst,efficacysecond,thenIwilltestitwithotherpeoplewhoaresortofmycoregroupoftesters,whichisasmallgroupofpeople-menandwomenofdifferentagesandethnicities.Typically,theteststhemselvescomefrommyhypothesisthatisformedafterreviewingstudieson,say,PubMed,orsomethinglikethat.There’ssomekernelofresearchordatainthebeginning.Thenonlyafterthat,willImakerecommendations.

WhatI’verealizedthoughisthat,ifyouprovideanythingthatcanberemotelyhazardous,andyouincludeinstructionsandwarningsforhowtoavoiditbeingdangerous,youshouldassumethat10%ofthepeoplewhoreaditarenevergoingtopayanyattentionoranyheedtothewarnings.That’swhy...Forinstance,Ihadachapteronbreathholding.DavidBlainetaughtmehowtoholdmybreathinThe4-HourBody,andIpersonally-itwasnotanyoneelseaskingtohaveitremoved-Iaskedtohaveitremovedbecauseanumberofpeople,nothingcatastrophichappened,butpeoplewerenotpayingattentiontothewarnings.Isaid,“Look,donotpracticethisinwater.Ifyou’reevergoingtotryit,yousitinachairandhere’showyoupractice.”


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Needlesstosay,therewerepeoplewhowerelike,“Ohyeah,I’mgoingtogoouttothepublicpoolandtrythistomorrow.”I’mlike,“No,becauseifit’ssixinchesofwater,orsixfeet,orsixtyfeet,ifyourfaceisimmersed,itdoesn’tmatter,theycanallkillyouequally,"soIhaditremoved.

Ifeelaresponsibilitytoteachpeoplehowtobegoodcitizenscientists,andhowtojudgeandseparategoodsciencefrombadscience.OnceIprovidethattoolkit,Iholdthemresponsibleforwhattheydo.Icanpointthedirectionandsay,"Ifindthisinteresting,Ihavetriedthis,"butIdotaketheresponsibilityveryseriously.Idobelievethatwithgreataudiencecomesgreatresponsibility.Youhavetoassumethatoneoutofevery1,000fans,orreaders,orcustomersyouhave,iscompletelybat-shitcrazy.Youhavetoaccountforthat.Ifyouhaveamillionpeople,that’sasmallarmyofcrazypeople.Thenyouhavetoassumethatatleast10%arenotgoingtoreadthedirections.IkeepbothofthosethingsinmindwhenI’mtryingtodesignprotocolsthatImightexplaintopeople,becauseitisscary.Itcanbescaryunleashingthesethingsintotheworldthatyouhopewillbeconsumedliterallyormetaphoricallythewayyouintendthemtobeconsumed.

Dave: I’vefoundpeoplestill...I’vemadevideosandallthis.Tome,makingBulletproofCoffeeisprettysimple,buttheyputthebutterinwiththegroundcoffeeinsidethecoffeemakerandwonderwhycrapcomesout.It’slike,“Guys,Idon’tknowhowtomakeitanyclearer."Ithinkthat’stoyourpoint,right?Youdon’tknowwhatthey’regoingtodo.

Okay,youhavethesepeoplewhoarefansandyouhavethesehaters.Doyoutakethehaterstuffpersonally,orwhat’syourstrategyfornotabsorbingallthatnegative...?Ireceivesimilarstuff.ProbablynotthelevelyoudobecauseI’mnowherenearaswell-knownasyouare,butallcelebritiesdealwiththisatsomeleveloranother.

Tim: Yeah.Ithinkthatthereareacoupleofthingsworthremembering.Themostimportantis,youdon’twanttothrowthebabyoutwiththebathwater.Idopayattentiontointelligentcriticismevenifoccasionallyitis...HowshouldIputthis?Lessthandiplomatic.It’simportantnottoassumethatallcritics,especiallyconstructivecriticism,iscomingfromhaters,andusethatlabeltodisregardit.ThereareacoupleofotherthingsthatIthinkareequallyimportanttokeepinmind,especiallywheneverygeniusandeveryidiothasavoiceontheinternet,particularlywithanonymity.Thatis,numberone,it’snotabouthowmanypeopledon’tgetit,it’sabouthowmanypeoplegetit.Right?Whatisthecriticalmassofpeopleyouwanttoinfluenceandaffect,andhowareyoutrackingthat?Whatareyourkeyperformanceindicators?Whatarethemetricsyou’reusingtodeterminewhetherornotyouareachievingyourgoal,assumingthatit’stryingtoimpactacertainnumberofpeopleatacertainmagnitude?It’saboutthenumberofpeoplewhogetit,notthenumberofpeoplewhodon’t.

Numbertwois,tryingtoappealtoallpeopleisasignofmediocrity.That’sactuallyparaphrasingaquotefromColinPowell.It’sveryhardtodoanyjobwellifyouarefragileinthatway.There’sactuallyaquotethatIlikewhichisfromNassimTalib.

Dave: LikeAntifragilestuff.


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Tim: Exactly,andheactuallye-mailedthistomebeforeAntifragilecameoutanditwas,“Robustnessiswhenyoucaremoreaboutthefewwholikeyourworkthanthemultitudewhohateit.”Or“hatesit,"inparentheses,“artists."“Fragilityiswhenyoucaremoreaboutthefewwhohateyourworkthanthemultitudewholovesit.”Theninparentheses,“politicians."Ithinkthat’sverycriticaltokeepinmindasyouinteractwiththeworld.Inadditiontothat,Ishouldsay,justasageneralrule,Idon’tgooutofmywaytosearchfornegativity.OnYouTubeforinstance,it’sfinetoenablecomments.I’llpayattentiontoahandfulofthingsonceandagain,butifyoulookatanyvideoandyouscrolldown,withinthefirst200comments,Hitlerisgoingtocomeup.Hitlerorracistepithetswillgetthrownaroundwithinthefirst200comments.Doesnotmatterwhatthevideois.Itcouldbeakittenvideo.Itcouldbeanon-profitvideo.Itmakesnodifference.

Igooutofmywaytofilterthatkindofstuffout.Theruleis,forinstance,onmyblog-andtheblogcommentsmakethisveryclearandIthinkthisispartofthereasonthatmycommunityisverywell-knownforbeingextremelypositiveandconstructive-notalwaysagreeing.Theruleonmyblogis,youcandisagreeandyoucanevenattackme,butyoucan’tattackeachother.Ifyouattackoneanother,you’regoingtogetbanned.Iwillblacklistyou.Ihavenoproblemwithit.Itreatitasmylivingroom.IfIinvite10dinnerguestsover,therecanbeaspiriteddebate,butyoucan’tcallsomeoneafuckingidiot.Ifyoucallsomeoneafuckingidiot,you’renotgoingtogetinvitedagain.Ontheinternet,thatequalsgettingblacklisted.Ienforcethatvery,veryseriously.Thatdoesn’tmeantherearenocritics.Thereareplentyofcriticsonmysitewhowillprovidemewithveryvaluablefeedback,buttheydoitinawaythatisnotinsultinglyconfrontational.

Dave: Thedifferencebetween,thefactsarewrongorIhavedoubtsaboutwhatyousaid,versusIhavedoubtsaboutwhatyousaid,youscamartist,truant,orwhatevertheymakeup,right?Itrytodothesamething.I’mnotprobablyasgiftedasyouareatthat,butifthere’spersonalattackstowardsothers-orhonestly,ifyouwanttosaythesamereallynegativestuffaboutme-Iwilldeletethecomment,becauseitbringsnegativitytoeveryone.IfyouwanttosayI’mwrongforagoodreason,maybeIamwrongandthenIdon’twanttoknowit,right?

Tim: Thenumberonerule,forme,isyou’renotallowedtoattackanyoneelse.Youwanttoattackme,that’sfine.Youattackanothercommenterandyoumakeitanad-hominemattack,you’regone.You’rebooted.Thisisaneighborhood.Thisisatribeandwhetheryoulikeitornot,you’reonmyblog,thatmakesmethevillageelder.Playbytherulesoryou’regone.Likeanysociety,likeanyculture.Youplaybytherulesoryougetexiled.That’sit.

Dave: Allright.Igotanotherquestionforyou.Thishastodowithcreativity,andperformance,andwell,sex.Youwroteaboutsexin4-HourBody,whichwasbrilliantbytheway.I’vemetlotsofthecharactersthatyoumentionedthere.What’syourexperience,ontheflipside,asamale,intermsofenergy,creativeforce,andallofthat,whenitcomesdowntosex?

Tim: Doyoumeanbiochemicallyspeakingasitrelatestotestosteroneorjust...

Dave: Wetalkaboutgettinginthezoneforwriting,sonotjusttestosteronelevels,buttheguywhodid...Wow,thisdoesn’thappentomeveryoften.Somethingwrongwithmysleepapparently.Theguywhowrotethefirstself-helpbookever.ThinkingGerwich.NapoleonHillistheguyI’m


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thinkingof.Shouldn’thavetakenthatlongtocomeup.Myrecalltime’soff.Moreaniracetam.

NapoleonHillhasawholechapteron,basicallyforguys,don’torgasmtoomuch.Idida[inaudible00:36:32]myselftalkacoupleyearsagowhereImeasuredtaoistfrequenciesofmaleorgasmandhowtheyeffectedoverallhappinessandthusperformance.

Youwrotesomuchaboutthewoman’ssideofsexinyourbook,butIwaswonderingifinthecontextof[inaudible00:36:49]experiments,haveyouevernoticed,orquantified,orseenadifferenceinyourownmentalfocusandenergywithregardstosex?

Tim: Relatedtosexandmaleorgasm,thisisagoodnews,badnewssituation.Thebadnewsis,ifyoulookatstudiesofotherspecies,thenumberoftimes-thiskindofthemileage,sotospeak-thenumberoftimesthatthemaleejaculatesseemstobeinverselycorrelatedwithlifespan.That’sthebadnews.Thegoodnewsis,atleastinmyexperiencesacrificingmyselfforscience,IwanttolookattheactualphysicaldeterminantsofthisandIhaven’tquitepinpointedit,butIthinkthatifyouareejaculatingfromsex,thatyoucandoitfairlyfrequentlyandstillmaintainthetypeofalertness,anddrive,andpracticalaggressionthatcomesfromveryhealthy,ifnotoptimal,sexhormonelevelsandsoon.Itwouldappearthatifyou’regoingthroughthesamephysicalactbutusingpornasthestimulusthat,atleastinmyexperience,verydifferentoutcome.Actually,Ithinkbiochemically,verydifferent,whichwouldmakesenseonsomelevel-butIhaven’tpinpointedalloftherealitiesofthat.Idon’tthinkthatto,say,aimforoptimalcognitiveperformance,youhavetoabstainfromsexforextendedperiodsoftime.Doesn’tseemtobethecase.

Dave: It'sbadforyou,yeah.

Tim: Ifyouwanttooptimizeforspermcount,andspermmorphology,andsoon,itappearsthataround72hoursiswhereyougetthehighestqualityofsperm,sostoppingyourselfupfortwoweeksdoesnotimprovetheoutcomeifyou’relookingto,say,banksperm,forinstance.

Dave: Itreallylowerstheoutcomefrommy...

Tim: Itdoes.

Dave: Fromfertility,yeah.Itwasn’tagoodidea.Ithinkifyougetintothat...Googledopaminesensitivityandporn.Ithinkwhat’sgoingonthereisjusthigherspikesofdopamineinshorterperiodsoftimesoyougetdopamineresistance.That’satheory,butIdon’tknowifit’stherighttheory.

Tim: Interesting.Interesting.Yeah,thatcouldbeit.It’slikeinsulinresistance.It’sporn-induceddopamineresistance.

Dave: (laughs)There’sprobablysomegreatacronymforthatlike[inaudible00:36:49]orsomething.Allright.We’recomingupontheendoftheshow,Tim.There’saquestionthatI’veaskedeveryguestexceptthatonetimewhenIforgot.Thequestionis,ifyouhadthreepiecesofadviceforpeople-itdoesn’thavetobefromanyofyourbooksoranythinglikethat,justyourentirelife


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experience-thethreemostimportantthingstotellpeoplewhowanttoperformbetter,whowanttokickmoreass.

Tim: Yeah,that’sagoodquestion.Let’ssee.Thefirstwouldbe,you’retheaverageofthefivepeopleyouassociatewithmost,sopickyourpeergroup.That’sphysically,financially,emotionally,alloftheabove.Youaretheaverageofthefivepeopleyouassociatewithmostsopickthosepeoplevery,verycarefully.

Secondwouldbe,it’saboutthepeoplewhogetit,notthepeoplethatdon’tgetit.Relatedtoourconversationabouthaters,focusontheimpactyou’remaking,notthepeoplewhoarenippingatyourheels,whoarethedetractors.It’sworthwatchingthemovieRatatouilletolistentoAntonEgo’sconcludingspeechforthis.

Thenpointnumberthreewouldbe,havebiggoals.ReadthebookTheMagicofThinkingBig.Havebiggoalsthatgetyoufuckingexcited.Ithinkthemainreasonthatpeopledon’tdoamazingthingsistheyaimforwhattheyperceive"realistic”goals.Havesomebig,crazygoals.Dosome...Obviouslywithself-preservationinmind.Reallyaimforthestars,whichsoundscliched.ItwaseitherLarryPageorSergeyBrin,sooneofthewondertwinsbehindGoogle,whosaid,it'ssomethingthatalotofpeoplemiss,isthatwhenyouaimreally,reallybig-andI’mparaphrasinghere,youcanlookitup-whenyouaimatsomethingreallyhuge,it’shardtofailcompletely.Thepartthatpeoplemiss,istheydon’trealizeit’shardtofailcompletely.Youusuallygetsometremendouslyamazingoutcome.Ifyoushootatsomethingbigenough,ElonMuskstyle,it’shardtofailcompletely,sothinkbig.Thosewouldbemythreepiecesofadvice.

Dave: Well,you’reoneoftheprobablytoptwopeopleIeverwantedtogetthatpieceofadvicefrom,sothanks,Tim.BadassadviceasI’dexpect.Oneoftheotherguys,RobertGreen,who’sagreedtobeonthepodcastassoonaswegetourcalendarslinedup,alsowroteMastery.Thetwoofyou,Ireallywanttoknowwhat’sinthere.Whatafantasticlist.

Allright,Tim,youhavemoreprojectsthanIcankeepstraightinmybrainwithoutmoresmartdrugsthanItookthismorning.GivemearundownoftheURLswherepeoplecanfindoutaboutthecoolstuffyou’redoingincludingyourAngelInvesting,whichI’mintriguedby.

Tim: Yeah,definitely.ThereareacoupleplaceswherepeoplecanseewhatI’mupto.thelatestcrazyexperimentsthatI’mdoing.Theheartbeatofitallistheblog,Fourhourblog.com.F-O-U-R-H-O-U-R-B-L-O-G.com.YoucanalsojustGoogleTimFerrissblogandit’llpopup.Twitter,Idoalotofmyshorter-formlinkstostudies,Ipollmyaudiencequiteabit,dosomereallyfunstuffonTwitter.Ihaveabout500,000orsofollowersthere.TFerriss.T-F-E-R-R-I-S-S.FacebookisjustTimFerriss.TwoR’s,twoS’s.

Ifyou’reinterestedintechandAngelInvesting,IhaveoneofthelargestsyndicatesonAngelList,whichisavery,veryfascinatingsite.I’manadvisortothecompany.Youcancheckitout,butIhaveaboutthree...betweenthreeandfourmilliondollarsincommittedcapitalforthesestart-updealsthatIdo.PeoplewhoareoutsideofSiliconeValleycanparticipateinthesedealsbybackingmysyndicate,whichisavery,verynewpossibility.That’sjustAngel.co.ThatisAngelList.IfyougotoAngel.co/Tim,youcanseeprettymuchallthedealsI’veeverinvestedin,thatI


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advise,dealsthatIamgoingtobesyndicatingsoon.Ihaveacoupleofreallyinterestingonescomingup.Ifyou’reinterestedintech,Angel.coisagreatplacetojustlearnabouttheplayersinvolved,andalsotobackthepeoplethatyouwouldliketoback.

Dave: Awesome.YourITunesaddress?Wheredopeoplefinddifferentyouinpodcasts,whichisawesome?

Tim: Thanksforthereminder.TheTimFerrissShowhassomereallyincredibletopperformersonit,andit’sfun,too.Idogetdrunkonafewofthem,whichIdon’trecommend.It’shardtowritedrunkandeditsober,asHemingway,inaudio.TheTimFerrissShowhasalotofinterestingfolksonit,sojustsearchTimFerrisswithtwoR’sandtwoS’soniTunes,andTheTimFerrissShowwillpoprightup.Ithinkit’sinthetop10oniTunes,ortop15,atthemomentacrossallofthepodcasts.

Dave: That’sanaccomplishmentthatisworthyofTimFerriss.Tim,thankyouforbeingontheshow.It’sanamazinghonortogettotalkwithyouface-to-face,atleastoverSkype,andIhopewegetachancetomeetinpersonsometimesoon.

Tim: Yeah.Definitely.Thankssomuch.Reallyappreciateit.Untilnexttime.

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