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Transcript of “292 with Philip Reed”

Bulletproof Radio podcast #292

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #292, Phillip Reed

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Intro: BulletproofRadio.Astateofhighperformance.

DaveAsprey: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatyouramygdalaispartofyourbrainthat'svery,veryold,istheculpritaboutwhyyouvividlyrememberallyourfearfulandembarrassingevents.Youramygdalanotonlyreleasesadrenalineandcortisolduringthosefearfulevents,butitalsotemporarilytriggersyourenhancedmemoryfunctionsinyourbrain.So,basicallyscaringthecrapoutofyourself,justaboutguaranteesthatyou'regoingtorememberit.

Speakingofrememberingthings,ifyouhaven'thadachancetocheckoutCholineForce,whichisaBulletproofproduct.It'sworthcheckingout.It'ssomethingthatIputtogethertogiveyousharperfocusedenergy,crystalclearthinking,bettermemory,andtoamplifythelevelsofacetylcholine,whichisakeyneurotransmitter.Italsohassomemicro-nutrientstoenhancemicro-circulationinthebrain.Therearelotsofwaystoincreaseacetylcholine.Istackedabunchofupinthereforyou,andifyoutakethatinthemorningwithyourBulletproofcoffee,youcanexpectevenmorefocus.It'saprettyamazingstackwhenyougetitalldown.So,that'sCholineForce,ontheBulletproofwebsite.

Today'sshowisalsogoingtotalkaboutbrains,andguts,andalittlebitoffear,andafewotherthingslikethatbecausewearetalkingwithanauthorwho'spublishedtwohitsportsbooksandthreenovels.He'saformerpolicereporterandyoumighthavereadhisworkonEdmunds.com.But,what'sreallycoolisthathe'salsothemostrecentauthorof"WildCards,"ayearcountingcardswithaprofessionalblackjackplayer,apriest,anda$30,000bankroll.Ourguest'snameisPhilipReed.Philip,welcometotheshow.

PhilipReed: Good.Goodtobewithyou,Dave.

DaveAsprey: Wheretheheckdoyoufindapriestanda$30,000bankroll?BecauseIgottoknow.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Well,youknowI'vehadoneoftheseliveswherealotofinterestingandmiscellaneousthingshavecometome.Ithinkifyourmindisopentothesethings,theywillcomeintoyourlives.But,itseemslikewhenIwantsomething,orsomethingnewtohappen,thingsmagicallyappear.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: It'sbeenhappeningmywholelife.Itdoesn'thappenonschedule,anditalsodoesn'thappeninthequantitiesthatyouwouldlikesometimes,butitdoeshappen.So,Iwaslooking...IwasactuallywritinganovelandIwantedoneofthecharacterstobeacardcounter.Ihadneverlearnedtocountcards,allthoughIhadalwaysbeenkindof


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fascinatedwiththeconceptofanindividualbeatingthecasino.Youknow,theDavidandGoliathscenario.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: AfriendofminethatImetthroughthegolfbook,he'salongdrivechampion,thesameasJacobBowdin.He'saswingspeedtrainer,teachingpeopletoswingfaster,notharder,orbuildingtheirmuscles,butfaster.Anyways,hewasinvitedtogotoLasVegasandgiveagolflessontoaprofessionalblackjackplayer.So,afterthat,hecametomyhouseandhewassopumpedup.Hesaid,"you'vegottowriteabookaboutthisguy."HebroughttheMITblackjackmanual,kindofatatteredphotocopiedthing.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: ItsatthereonmydeskforthreeorfourweeksbecauseIwasalmostkindofafraidtoopenit,whereitmightleadme.Finally,Ididn'thaveanythingtoreadandIopenedit.IstartedreadingitandIthought,"youknow,Icoulddothis."

So,IcalledtheguyupandhisaliasisBillPalace.Almostalloftheblackjackplayershavealiases.Wetalked,andhewasn'tatallwhatIimagined.IimaginedthathewasgoingtobelikesomeswashbucklingsortofflamboyantguylikeRhettButlerorsomething,youknow?Instead,hewasalotmorelikeabusinessman.Hesaid,"yeah,IcanmeetyouinLasVegas."Hesaid,"Iusuallytravelwithapriestfrommydiocese.Heplaysvideopoker,Iplayblackjack.Hekicksinsomemoney,andweplayoutofabankroll.So,ifyouwanttocomemeetus,let'sdoit."So,Ihadtocheckitoutandthat'skindofhowthethinggotrolling.

DaveAsprey: Okay.That'sactuallykindofanamazingstorywhenyouthinkofaboutit.Youjustranintotheguyandit'sactuallybankrolledbyapriest.Isthislikecollectionplatemoney?Howdoesthiswork?That"thelordshallprovide"sortofthing?

PhilipReed: Yeah,wellit'sinteresting.Ifyouhaveabiggerbankroll,youcanplayatahigherlevel.Itmakeseverythingbetter,becauseyoucanwinfaster.Youcansustainthedownturnsbetter.Youcanplayinthehighlimitsareas.So,yeah.Imean,thepriestdoesn'thavealotofexpenses.HetakestheextramoneyandinvestsinBill,andthenBillinme.So,wewereabletoplayatamuchlargerbankroll.

But,ImeanBillatonepoint,hesaidtome,hewascheckingouttwodeckgamesintheareathathelives.Sohewenttothepriestandsaid"Ifoundagoodtwodeckgame,"andthepriestkindofthoughtitover.Youknowhowpriestsareverythoughtful.

Hesaid,"okay,I'minforagrand."Hesaid,"stopbytherectorandI'llhavethemoneyinanenvelope."So,behindthescenes,there'sthismoneychanginghands.


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DaveAsprey: I'mtrulyamused,butwhatyou'redoingthere,regardlessofwhereyougetthemoney,isyou'retalkingaboutperformingunderpressure.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Ithinkallofyourbookshavethatelementaboutit.IusedtoliveinLakeTahoe.IhadaplacetherewhenIfirstleftSiliconValley,andIwouldgoandIwouldcountcardsinblackjack.IexperimentedwithdifferentmindalteringsubstancesandIwasneveranamazingcardcounter.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: But,thedifferenceinwhatyoutakehome,evenifyou'rekindofacrappyone,isjustphenomenal.Your$5handsbecome$50handsallofasuddenattherighttime,andmagicallygoodstuffhappens.Thepitbossglaresatyou.

PhilipReed: Ohyeah.Well,there'sthat.Thenitturnsintoawholedifferentgame.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Itbecomesevadingdetection.Butyeah,absolutely.There'salotofpeopleItalktoandtheyliketoplayblackjack,andtheysay,"Icouldneverlearntocountcards."

Isay,"well,justlook.Whenyouseeafloodoflowcardscomeout,youbetterraiseyourbetsforthenexthand,becausethehighcardsarecomingandyou'vegotabetterchanceofwinning,youknow?"So,yeah,absolutely.Imean,ofcoursecardcountersbecomereallyobsessedwithbeingabsolutelyperfect.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Andlearningalloftheindexnumbersandeverything,butit'snotaperfectgame.There'stheelementofluckisstillhuge.Evenwhenyou'reperfect,you'reonlyplayingatabouta2to4percentadvantage.

DaveAsprey: IfoundthatIgointoastateofflowwherewhenyou'rereallypayingattentiontothecards,yousortofjustlookandyoujustabsorbtheinformation.IdidfindthatwhatIate,andparticularlymodafinil,oneofthesmartdrugs,wellknown,Itookitalmosteverydayfor8years.IwouldtakeanextradoseofitbeforeIwouldgocountcards,andcardcountingwas...itwaseffortlessonthatstuff.

Idon'ttakemodafinilonaregularbasisanymore.Ihaven'thaditinaverylongtime,becausewhenmybiology'sdialedin,mybrainjustworkslikethatanyway.Butwhenmybrainwasn'tdialedinalltheway,itgavemesomuchmoreeffortlessfocus,andit'sthateffortlessnessthatmatters.Ifyouhavetostruggletocountall...lookatallthecardsonthetableatonceandrunatallyinyourhead,thatstruggletakesyououtoftheflow


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state.Allofasuddenyoudon'trememberwhatyou'resupposedtodo,andyoumissyourbet,andyoudosomethingthat'snotgoingtowork.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Well,there'ssomuchthatyoureallyneedtopayattentiontowhenyou'recountingcards.Thecardsarereallyjustthebeginningofitbecauseyouneedtokeepthecount,youneedtowatchyourbets,butyouneedtowatchthedealer.Then,youneedtowatchthepitboss.Youneedtofindout,aretheygettingcallsfromsurveillance?

So,whenIfirststartedwithcountingcards,itwaslikeIwaslookingatthetablethroughatelescope.AllIcouldseewasthecards.Thewholerestofthecasinodisappeared.Butthen,asIgotbetterandbetter,myperspectivebroadened.AndIthinkthatthisistrueprobablyofallsports,likeyou'replayingsoccer,youneedtoknowwho'saroundyou,whotopassto.Youneedtoseehowtheballisspinning.Imean,there'ssomanythingsthatyourbrainisprocessingandthebetteryoucanprocessit,thebetteryoucanplay.

Idiscoveredandbegananexperiment...ImeanI'mabigcoffeedrinker,sonaturallyIwasdrinkingcoffeetogettothetable,butsometimesyoucanoverdoitwithcoffee.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Becauseyougothrough,Ithink,morepeaksandvalleyswithcoffeethanmodafinil.

DaveAsprey: Itdependsonwhat'sinthecoffee,too.Iwastiredofthevalleys.

PhilipReed: Yes.Yeah,wellIknowandIwishIhadhadtheBulletproof.Thatwouldhavebeenareallyinterestingtesttoseewhethertherewasthatkindofthedropoff,andIwouldreally...becausecountingcardsislikeareally,reallygoodtestofyourabilitytoprocessinformationquickly,reliably,andit'salsoagoodtestofyourshorttermmemory.

DaveAsprey: Wefoundstatisticallysignificantimprovementson6of7measuresofexecutivefunctiontestingblackmoldfreeBulletproofcoffeebeansagainstaselectionofstoreboughtbeansinastudythatIpublishedintheBulletproofDiet.Thesewereuniversityvalidatedstyle15minutetests,ifIrememberright,twiceaday.So,wewerekindofgoingdeeptofigureout,"allright,issomethingreallygoingonhere?"

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: Justbettervigilance,right?Ifyouloosethatedgeforonesecond,youmightmissacard.But,Iimaginesomepeoplelisteningprobablydon'tknowmuchaboutcardcounting.Theyjustkindofknowit'scheating.Well,sorry,usingfiretostaywarmisalsocheatingagainstyourneighborswhodon'thaveafire,so.

PhilipReed: Right.


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DaveAsprey: Wecantalkaboutthatlater.But,whatiscardcounting?Ifsomeonewalkedup,said"Ihavenoideawhatyoudo.Canyouwalkmethroughwhatitisandwhatit'slike?"

PhilipReed: Yeah.Wellfirstofall,thereisaperceptionthatit'seithercheatingorillegal.Itisn'tillegal,butyoucangetkickedout,becausethecasinoscanreadyouthetrespassactandthenwhenyougobackin,you're86ed,asamatteroffact.Aninterestingtermthatcamefromtheproofofwhiskey.

Anyways.Well,supposedlyifsomebodywasdrinking100proofandtheywereactingout,they'dgivetheman86becauseitwaswhattheyservedwomenintheoldwest.So,peopledidn'twanttheperceptionofbeing86ed.

So,anyways.It'salittlebitofamisnomerwhenyousaycountingcards.Peoplethink"wow,howcanyoucountallthosecardsormemorizethedeck?"And,you'renotdoingthat.Basicallyit'sasystemwhichhasbeendesignedtohelpyoutrackcardsandfigureout,aretheremorehighcardsorlowcardsinthedeckthatyou'reabouttoplay.Soinotherwords,it'swhattheycalladependentsequenceofevents.You'veseenhalfthedeck,andlet'ssaytherewerealotoflittlecardsinhalfthedeck.Thesecondhalfofthedeckisgoingtobehot,becausethetencardsandtheacesarewhat'sgoodfortheplayer.Because,youcanbeliterallydealta20orablackjack,whereasthedealer,ifthedealergetsa14,hestillhastohitandthenbust.

So,highcardsaregoodfortheplayer,lowcardsaregoodforthedealer.Onceyouknowthat,andyouknowthewaythatthedeckorthecompositionofthedeckwhichiscoming,youcanthenknowwhentoraiseyourbets.Imean,it'sreallyprettysimplebecauseit'sliketellingyouwhentoraiseyourbets.So,youwantmaximummoneywhenthedeckishot,minimumwhenthedeckiscold.That'sit.Imean,it'sreallyprettysimple.

DaveAsprey: Thatwasmyunderstanding.Ididn'tstudythescienceinadvancedlevels,butyoucanreadaboutitonWikipedia.

PhilipReed: Sure.

DaveAsprey: There'stutorials.There'sgamesyoucanplayonyouriPhonethatwillshowyouexactlyhowtocount.There'svarioussystems,somearemorecomplexthanothers.

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: Butwhenyoudoarelativelysimpleone,itstilltiltstheoddsinyourfavor.

PhilipReed: That'sright.


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DaveAsprey: Idon'tknowhowmanynightsIplayedwhenIlivedinTahoe.Ididn'tbecomeobsessedwithit,butyoucouldgodown,andyoucouldprettyreliably...Igothere,I'mwillingtolose$200bucks.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Thatisentertainmentmoney,soit'sokayifyouloseit.Youwouldhavespentthatonashowanddinneranyway.So,yougo,youspend$200bucks,andsurprisinglyoften,I'dwalkawaywithathousanddollarsattheendofthenight,whichiskindofcool,right?

PhilipReed: Youknow,it'ssoamazingtowinmoney.It'salmostlikeyou'vecreatedmoneyoutofnothing,youknow?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Buttherealkickerisifyouuseyourbraintowinmoney,thenyoufeelsmart,youknow?

DaveAsprey: It'sgoodfortheego,right?

PhilipReed: Yeah,andpartofthebookthatIwrotewasaboutwantingtofeelsmart.Now,I'vebeenreasonablysuccessfulasawriter,andotherthings.But,Ineverreallyfeltsmart.MyfatherhadaPhD,hewasachemist,andaninventor.HeworkedforMIT.Otherpeopleinmyfamily,theyjustwerereallyquickinawaythatIdidn'tfeelthatIwas.

So,whenIturned59,IwasthinkingIneedsomethingtokeepmybrainsharpandeverything.SothisopportunitycamealongandIthought,"well,hereitis.IneedtoprovethatIcandoit."IthinkalotofwhatIlearnedwasthatsomuchofthatbeingsmartisreallypreparation.It'shardwork.It'sstudying,andallofthosethings.Then,whenyouneedit,theabilitytoperformunderpressure.Thatbecameafascinatingpartofthisbook,too,becauseIthinkreallyalmostanybodycouldgetusedtodoinganythingiftheydiditenough,iftheygraduallyrampeditup.

Like,Iknowyou'vedonealotofpublicspeakingandsoon,didyouhavealearningcurbaboutbeinginfrontofthecameraandthingslikethat?

DaveAsprey: There'satotallearningcurve.Infact,peoplewouldn'tbelieveit,butIdidn'thaveanyideahowtointeractinacrowd.IhadallthesignsofAsperger's.Iwasn'tformallydiagnosedbutIwasdiagnosedwithADD.Ihadallthesebehavioralthings.So,inmyveryearly20swhenIfirstmovedtoSiliconValley,everyThursdaynightIwouldhangoutatthisbusinessnetworkingthingandjustwatchwhatpeoplewoulddoandtryandcopyit.

PhilipReed: Yeah.


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DaveAsprey: UntilIcanfigureoutlikehowyouplaythegame.ThefirsttimeIwentonstage,IknockedthemdeadbutIwascompletelypanicked.Iwasinthiscompleteflowstate,IhavenoideawhatIsaid,buteveryoneclappedattheend,andTheylaughed,anditwasgood.ThatwashowIkindoflaunchedit,butItalkedforfiveyears,fournightsaweek,togetgoodatpublicspeakingbecauseIwasn'tgoodatit.

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: Iputinthetime.Soyeah,thelearningcurvewasactuallyprettysteepforme,Ithink.

PhilipReed: Yeah,minecameaboutbecauseIwroteanumberofnovelsandmaybefifteenyearsagotheystilldidbooksignings.So,IwouldgoandspeaktosmallgroupsandthenIspoketolargergroups,andlarger,andlarger.Then,whenIstartedworkingforEdmunds.com,theyoccasionallywouldputmeonnationaltelevision.You'dsitthereinthedarkroom,andthey'dsay"okay,thisislive."So,youcan'tscrewup.Luckily,IhadthebackgroundwhereIknewthatifIopenedmymouth,somethingreasonablycoherentwouldcomeout,butIneverknewwhatitwasgoingtobe,youknow?That'sactually,ifyoulearntotrustyourself,itcanbeprettyexciting.

DaveAsprey: It'sreallyunnervingthatthefirsttimeIdidthat,itwasforCNN.Theysaid,"ohcanyoubeonTVtotalkaboutsmartdrives?"

Isaid,"sure.Ibelievethesecanhelpsomanypeople.I'mhappytodoit,"andtheyflewmetoSanFrancisco.I'mexpectingastudio,andyouwalkin,it'slikeI'mtalkingtotheTerminator.There'sjustlikearoom,there'snooneinthere.There'saredlight,andalens.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: And,there'saguybehindtheglass.TobeonliveTVtalkingtoawall.Iknockedthemdead,right?But,Ididabunchofmeditativestuffaheadoftimebecauseit'sveryunnerving.So,youpulledthatoffaswell.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Now,itsoundslikewe'vetakenkindofasimilarjourneybecausealmostallmyadultlife,I'vebeenresearchingwaysnottogetnervous,ortobeabletohandlenervousness.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Peoplewhosay,"I'mnogoodatpublicspeaking."

I'llsay,"well,yougetnervous,right?"

They'llsay,"yeah.Igetsonervous."


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It'slike,"well,Idotoo!"And,here'swhatIdid.IntheearlydayswhenIwasstillarunner...Ofcourseifyourunfarenough,thenyougetthatendorphin.

DaveAsprey: Right.

PhilipReed: Thatwouldreallysmooththingsout,becauseyougetinfrontofacrowdandyoujustallofasuddengetthiswaveofnervousnessthatalmostovercomesyou.Overwhelmsyou.But,ifyoucangetpastthat,thenyougettothisreallyexcitingplace,too.That'swherealotofpeoplenevergetto,whichisashamebecauseit'dbenicetohearwhattheyhadtosay.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.It'sapracticething.Now,IknowthatI'mservingtheaudienceandI'mthereforthem,andIlovegoingonstage.There'snofearatall,butitwasamulti-yearthingwhereyoujusthavetolearn.I'mguessing,Inevergottherewithcardcounting.Iwasnevernervousaboutit.I'mlike,Idon'tthisforaliving.Ihavenofearofbeingkickedoutofthecasino.Iftheykickmeout,Ijustdon'tcare.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: Allright,sotheyneverdid,andmaybeit'sbecauseIwasn'tthatgood.But,Idoknowthatwhenmybetswouldgofromthe5to50or100,orI'dbetfourthingsonthetableatonce.Liketherealobvioussignsthatthisguy'scountingcards.Iwouldjustactalittledrunkthenextone.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Maybetheybelievedme.

PhilipReed: Cardcountersalwaysneedagoodcover.You'reinacasino.Thedrunkennessisagoodcover.Yeah,forme,wellwhathappenedwasIstartedtravelingwithBillandhe'saveryhighlevelplayer.So,firsttimewewenttoLasVegas,I'dbarelyplayedatacasinoatallandhesaid"bring$2000."

Iwaslike,"that'salotofmoneyforme."FirsttimeIsatdown,Iplayed,Ilost$700.Itwaslike,somebodysluggedmeinthestomach,youknow?But,whatIdidn'trealizewasthat'sthepriceofadmission.You'regoingtotakesomehits,butyou'realsogoingtogetsomereallybigwins.AcoupletimesIsatdownandwon$1500bucksin5minutes.

So,youknowyouhavetounderstandtheprocessandittookmeawhileto...Imean,myhandswouldshake,Icouldfeelmyhandssweating.Mymouthwouldgetreallydry.Allthesignsofacutenervousness,anditwasthenervousnessofbeinganintimidatingatmosphereandalsothethreatofreallylosinglargesumsofmoneyinaveryshortamountoftime.

DaveAsprey: Sohowmuchdidyouendupmakingyourfirstyearwhenyoustartedcountingcards?


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PhilipReed: BillandI,andthepriest,ofcourse,traveledandwewenttoLasVegas,Biloxi,Tunica.ItookacrosscountrytripinanoldcarandIplayedineverycasinoIcouldfind.

DaveAsprey: Cool.

PhilipReed: So,attheendofthe...Yeah,itwasagreat,greattrip.Attheendoftheyear,Ihad$6,100.So,Ithinkthatthat'sgoodproofthatthesystemworks.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,$6,100afterpayingforgas?

PhilipReed: Yeah,wellitwas...Well,that'sanotherstory.Yeah,itwasaprojectthatIdidforEdmund's,so.

DaveAsprey: Ohokay,cool.Soyouwerealreadycruisingaround,anyway.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: So,itwasaroadtripandyouwerehavingagoodtime.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andyoumanagedtoworkthisin.So,okay,$6,000isnotshabbyatall.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andyougottohavefundoingit,too,right?

PhilipReed: Ihadalotoffun.Oneofthethings,too,isthattheriskispartofit.It'sexciting.I'dtakeabeating,thenI'dgohomeandI'dsay"I'mnevergoingtodothisagain."Twoorthreedayslater,it'slike"hey,when'sthenexttrip?"

DaveAsprey: Yeah,riskisthespiceoflife,right?EverytimeIseetheseridiculousthings,youknow,'safetyisjobone.'

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: It'slikethat'saFordsloganorsomething.Actuallyno,gettingmyassthereisjobone.Safetyisnotjobone,becauseifsafetywasjobone,weshouldn'tbedriving,nowshouldwe?

PhilipReed: Yeahtobehonest.

DaveAsprey: I'mstartingtogetalittleupsetwiththatonlike,theworldanti-doping."Well,it'sallaboutsafety!"


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I'mlike,"youofallpeoplewouldrunintoeachotherhead-onandcauseconcussionsin96%ofthem,"buttheycan'tusetestosteronewhenthey'regettingoldtostayyoung.Howmessedupisthat?

PhilipReed: It'sanincredibledoublestandard.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Onsomanylevels.But,someofthatischanging,Ihope.But,itchangesveryslowly.It'sterrible.Butyeah,theriskwas...Imean,oneofthediscoveriesitsortofcamebytalkingtothepriest.Isaid,"Ithinkallofthesecasinosarebuiltbygreed."

Hesaid,"noit'snotgreed."Hesaid,"it'srisk,becauseit'sriskthatputsusinthemoment."

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Hesaid,"youknow,andthat'swhywewatchsports.Youknow,youhearthecrackofthebatandisitgoingtobeafoulballorisitgoingtobeagrandslam?Forthatmoment,you'recompletelysuspended;andyouknow,ifyou'replayingcards,you'renotgoingtobethinkingabout'wheredidIparkthecar?'You'recompletelyinthemoment."And,Iguessthat'sbecomesprettyaddictive.That'sprobablypartofthatcompulsivenessofalotofthesethings.Becausetheysaylike,basejumpersandthosehighriskultra-sportspeople...Infact,Ithinkdidyourecommendthebook,"TheReturnofSuperman?"

DaveAsprey: Absolutely.Yeah,infactStevenandIhavehungoutmanytimes.HewasakeynoteatthesecondannualBulletproofconference.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Ireadthatafterwetalked,andbecauseI'vebeenmeditating,andyouknowyou'realwaystryingtogettothatplacewhereyou'rereallyinthemoment.Therevelationofthatbookwasthatwhenyoudotheseextremelydangerousthings,itputsyouintothemoment.Youhavenochoice,youknow?

DaveAsprey: Ihavea26foottalltreewhereweneededtotakethetreeout,sowecutoffthetopofthetree.It'saboutthisbigindiameter.Forpeoplewhoaredriving,it'saboutIdon'tknow,18inches,24inchesindiameter.IputaladderonthesideofitsoIcouldclimbupthetreeandstandonthetopofthetreetomeditate.Theflagpolemeditation.Whydotheydothat?Youdothatbecauseitputsyou...like,ifyoufalldown,you'lldie!Sothen,you'rereallyinthemomentwhenyou'remeditating.

PhilipReed: Yeah.


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DaveAsprey: And,italsomakesyouputyourvisualfield...thatyoucan'tfocusonaspotrightnexttoyourfeet.Youhavetofocusonaspotamileaway.Whenyoudothat,itexpandsyoursenseofselfverydramatically.IusedasafetyharnesssoitwasjustgoingtohurtifIfall.

PhilipReed: Yeah,butstill.

DaveAsprey: But,samething.Yougottohavesomethingthat'sgoingtomakeyoudoit.

PhilipReed: Yeah,yeah,andIthinkofmyselfasbeingariskaverseperson,butIthinkthisbookkindofchangedthat.There'ssomanypeoplethatsaid,"oh,thatsoundscool.MaybeI'lltryit,"andthentheylookintoit,andit'slike,"there'snowayI'mdoingwhatyoudid,"youknow?

Imean,Idon'tthinkofmyselfasaherooranything,butIjusthadauniqueopportunityandkindofrodeit.Because,IhadalottolearnfromBill.Itwasanopportunitytotrytopeerintohishead.Iwasstrugglingtolearncardcountingandallofthat,andIwantedtoknowwhyishesogoodatit?Imean,theperception,ofcoursetheHollywoodperception..."oh,ifyou'reagenius,youcancountcards."

DaveAsprey: Itdoesn'trequiregeniusatall.

PhilipReed: No.

DaveAsprey: It'slikeaddingonesandtwos.It'sreallynothard.

PhilipReed: No,no.

DaveAsprey: But,itishardtopaythatmuchattention,butit'snotanintelligencething,right?

PhilipReed: No!No,notatall.Firstofall,peoplewhosay"well,I'mnotgoodatmath."Well,themathhasbeendoneforyou,youknow?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Whencomputerscamein,whattheydidwastheywouldjusttakeeverycardcombinationthatyoucouldgetandtheyputitintoanIBMcomputer,atthetime,andplayedamillionhands.Thentheysaid,"hitting16againstthedealer's10wins53%ofthetime."So,thatwashowitwasdone,yeah.Dothemathematicallycorrectthing.Soyoudon'thavetobeusingformulasor...butyoudoneedtohavegoodshorttermmemory.Youneedtobeabletoholdcountinyourheaddespitethefactpeoplearetalkingtoyou,newpeoplearecominginandoutofthetable,allofthedistractionsofthecasino.That'swhatbecomesdifficult.

DaveAsprey: I'vedonealotofworkwithsoftwareontrainingworkingmemory.Inmostpeople,youcandoubleworkingmemoryinabout20daysbut,thetrainingissouncomfortable


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becauseofthesenseoffailure,thatit'sjustit'salloveryou.I'vehadbillionairesjustfailatdoingthis,likeclientswherethey'relike,"I'mnotdoingthat.But,I'llhavethe22yearoldthatworksfor,becauseIcanmakehimdoit,becauseIpayhimtodoit."

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Like,"itdoeswork,butI'mnotgoingtodoit,"becauseit'ssostressful.Whatyou'redoingthough,isyou'reputtingyourselfinasituationwherethere'shighstakeslearning.Nothighdollarstakes,butforthebrain,money,survival,they'realltiedtogetheratthelowestlevels.

You'rebasicallytellingyourbrainthere'ssurvival,there'sbigopportunity,there'sthatelementofriskwhichisahugereasontogrownewneurons.Sothenyou'reputtingyourselfinanenvironmentwhereabilitytopayattentionbecomesaparamountimportancewhenthere'sabigthreat.Ithinkthatcausesmorerapidneurogenesiswhereyouactuallyaregoingtogrow,firstnewsynapses,andthenmalonatethesynapsesandthenitshouldbecomeeffortless.

PhilipReed: Right,right.

DaveAsprey: Isthatyourperspective?I'mmakingthisup,butthat'smyexperienceoftheworld.

PhilipReed: Well,Ithinkthebrainisatoolthatiswaitingforyoutotellitwhatyouneed.Then,itwillgointhatdirection,andIthinkthebrainisalsoamechanismforsurvival.So,whatyouwerejustdescribingwasbasicallysensingdangerandbuildingasystemtocopewiththatdanger.Ithinkthatthebrainisreallygoodatthatifyouletitdoit'sthing.Ithinkitknowsmorethantheconsciousminddoes.

Ifoundthatunderpressure,therewasatimewhenIwasn'treallyperforming,andthenIgotbetterunderpressure.ThatbecomesinterestingandIthinkthattheworld'stoplevelathletesknowaboutthat.Theyneedit.Firstofall,peopleresistthepressure,thentheycometoreallyalmostfeedonit.It'slikewhowantstheballattheendofthegame?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: It'sthepersonthatthrivesonpressure.

DaveAsprey: Whenyouwereinschool,didyouwaituntilthelastminutetostudyorwriteapaper?

PhilipReed: Ijustdidthat.Iturnedinastoryanditwasrightattheend,andmyeditorsaid,"well,that'swhatIexpectfromyou."I'mapparentlywhattheycalla'cliffhanger.'Idon'twait...Idon'tstartonituntilIhaveto.Then,Idoitrightatthelastminute.Ihaveastrongbelief,accordingtoasurveyItook,thatIperformbestunderpressure.Itkindofhelpedtoknow.Now,theinterestingthingwasmywifetookthesurvey.She'scomplete


15

opposite:startsearly,studieshard.Allthosethingsneverreallyworkedallthatwellforme.

Anyways,allofourbrainsaredifferent.Imean,thatwaswhatwassomuchfunaboutwritingthisbook.Itwaslike,youknow,Ilearninaverydifferentway,butIthinkI'vefinallyfiguredthatout,andImadeitwork.IwishIhadfounditoutearlier,butthat'sthewayitgoes.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.Everyone'sbrainisdifferent,andfindingwhatworksforyouissoimportant.Foryou,cardcountingseemedtoworkmaybebecauseyou'reoneofthoselastminutepeople.Whatdiditdoforyourbrainhealth?Didyouseechangesinyourcognitiveabilitieswhenyoubecamegoodatcountingcards?

PhilipReed: Yeah,wellIstartedthebookwhenIwas59.I'm63now.Itwasatatimewhenalotofmypeersweresayingthingslike,"ohmygosh,Iforgotthatname.IguessI'mgettingold."Buyingintothewholething,andIthinkthat'soneofthethingsthatmademewritethebook.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,don'tbuyintothat.It'sabunchofcrap.Theirbrainsarefailingbecausetheyneedtherightnutrition,therightanti-agingtherapies.There'snoexcuseforthatatanyage.

PhilipReed: No,Ithinkyou'reabsolutelyright.But,there'sakindofcollectiveagingprocesswhereyoulookatyourpeersandyouknow,"yeah,yeah,we'reold."Gettogether,andtheyallcomplaintogether.But,Ithinktheinterestingthing,Dave,andI'msurethisisfascinatingforyou,butyouhaveyourgooddayswhenyou'rereallyontopofthingsandeverything'srightonthetipofyourtongue.Then,otherdayswhereitjustdoesn'tseemtobehappening.Isitwhatyouatelastnight?Isithowyouslept?It'sprobablyacombinationofalotofthosethings.

So,thiswasagoodexaminationofreallyoptimizingperformanceinawaythatwasimpossibletoescape.Itwasn'tlikegivingaspeechandsaying,"well,thatwasprettygood,"afterwards.Imean,yougoawayfromthetableandyoueitherwonoryoulost,youknow?That'saprettycleardivisionrightthere.Also,havingsomethingatstakeallofthetime.

Now,whathappenedwasitwasagreatopportunitybecauseIwas59andItookasabbaticalfrommyjob,andIhad4months.So,IspentalotofthattimelearningcardcountingbutIwasalsostudyingSpanish.IwentdowntoSouthAmericaandIplayedblackjackdownthere.

Oneofthethings,too,thatwasfascinatingaboutthisbook.ImentionedmyfatherwasaPhD,scientist.Ihaveasonwho'samusicianandhe'sextremelygoodwithlanguages.So,there'sthatkindofcommonalityoflanguage,andmusic,andalsohe'sverygoodwith...Itaughthimhowtocountcards.Hedoesn'thaveabankroll.Imean,that'sabigstopperrightthere.Heclickedwithallofthosethingsrightaway.


16

But,Ikeptsayingtomyself,"hisbrainissodifferentthanmine.Hegotthisfromhismother."Thatwaskindofthe...itwashumbling.But,Ithinkthatifyoulearntoworkwithyourbrain,thenyoucan...Theproblemisthattheschoolsystemissorigidinthewaythatitteachesandrewards.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Therewardpartofitissobig,becausethemessageIgotfromschoolwas,"youdidn'tdowell,you'renotgoingtodowellinlife."So,getgoodgrades.

DaveAsprey: Theschoolsystemdoesweirdthingsforsure.Irememberwaybackintheday,about20,20orsoyearsago,Iwastheonlystudentintheuniversitywhohadalaptop.Itwas$5,000thatIdidn'thave.Iputitonthreedifferentcreditcards,andluggedthis12poundbehemothtoclass,becauseIcouldtakenotesonit,andmynoteswereactuallylegibleandmorecoherent.

Onesemester...and,Iwasn'tagreatstudentatall,accordingtomyGPA.So,onesemester,I'mlike,"Ireallyneedtogetdonewithcollegething,soI'mjustgoingtodotwosemestersinone."So,Idoubledmycourseload.Thatthing,workingunderpressure,right?

PhilipReed: Yeah,yeah,yeah.

DaveAsprey: IusedalaptopandwhatIfoundisifIplayedfreecell,likethedumblittlesolitairegame?

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: ThatonethatcomeswithWindows95?Windows3.1,Iguess,backthen.Iwouldplaythatduringclass,andthenIwouldswitchover,takenotes,andswitchback,thatIgota3.9,highestGPIevergot,anditwasbecausemybrainnevershutdown.Ofcourse,everyoneinclasswasreallyoffended."Howdareyouplay?It'sdisrespectful!"

Iwouldjustlookatthemlike,"howdareyoulookatmyscreen,it'sprivate!"Right?

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldjustdothis,andprettysoontheotherreallysmartguyintheclasswouldsitnexttomeandwewouldcollaborativelyplay.Bothofuswerelikeacingeverything,becauseourbrainswerethekindofbrainsthatwerelike"isthisall?"Itjustkeptthebrainbusysothatitwouldkeeppayingattention.Itwasliketheinformationwouldjustflowin.Okay,thatworkedforme,butthepersonnexttomeprobablywouldhavejustgoneinsaneiftheytriedtodothat.So,schoolthere...Iwasn'tsupposedtobedoingthat,butIdidn'tcare.Ijustdidit.


17

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: And,IwasluckyIfoundit.Butforeveryonelikeme,there'sprobably20othercognitivestylesthatarecompletelycrushedbythetimeyougetintouniversity,ifyouevencanaffordtogo.

PhilipReed: That'strue.IthinkthattheonlyrealgiftthatIhadwasselfconfidence.

DaveAsprey: Thereyougo.

PhilipReed: Sopeoplewouldsay,"youcan'tbeawriter."Iwouldkeeptryinganyways.EventuallythattrumpedalloftheotherstuffbecauseIfoundawaytodothethingsthatIwantedtodo.Butyou'reright,Imeanpeopledogetcrushed.

Theylistentotheirprofessors,andtheirprofessorssaid...LikeforexamplewhenIwasjustabouttograduatefromcollege,oneprofessorcametomeandsaid"youknow,you'reaprettygoodwriter.Youshouldmaybemakealivingdoingthisstuff."

Anotherprofessorcametomeatthesametimeandsaid,"yourwritingisterrible.Ifyoureallywanttograduate."

Soit'slike,here'stwoexperts.One'stellingmeI'mgoodenoughtomakealivingatit.SoIguessIpaidattentiontotheonethatlikedmywriting.But,maybethere'ssomethinginsideallofusthatkindofguidesusandgivesussortofasenseofwhatyou'regoodat.

Imean,there'stheword"destiny"whichisreallyabigword,andtiedtosomanythings.But,Ireallywantedtobeawriter,Ireallylovedexploringnewthings,andIthinkasajournalist,mycuriositybecameprobablyoneofmybesttool,qualities,tools.

DaveAsprey: So,youappliedyourcuriositytocountingcards,butyoualsohookedupwithamentor,whichisoneofthemorepowerfulwaystolearnsomethingquickly.

PhilipReed: Yes.

DaveAsprey: WhatcouldBillPalace,yourcardcountingmentor,whatcouldhedo?Whatwerehismentalabilities?Justpaintmeapictureofthat.

PhilipReed: Yeah,wellIhavethreesportsbooksasyoumentioned,andtheyallhavetowithmentors.Learningsomethingfromamentor.Firstofall,IhavetotellyouthatIprobablywouldn'thavestuckwiththiswholeprocesshaditnotbeenforBill,becausehewastherewhenIgotthebiglosses,saying,"youmadetherightplays,butthecardsweren'tthere,"orwhatever.Healsoperceived,attimes,situationsthatIwasnotprocessingcorrectlyandsaying,"weneedtofindawaytogetthroughthishurdle."


18

Forexample,whenthecardscomeout,youshouldn'tcountthemalluntilthey'reonthetable.So,hegavemeawaytoliterallysay"lookherefirst,here,here,andthenhere,anddon'tdoituntilthey'reoutthere."Because,abigpartofcardcountingissinceyou'recountinghighandlowcards,ifyouseeonehighcardandonelowcard,theyjustcanceleachother,sotheydon'tchangethecount.So,youcanlookatatableandjustalmostinasecond,likeBillsays,youjustcanscananentiretableofcardsandknowsinstantlywhatthecountis.Hedoesn'tevenknowwhathe'sdoingatthistime.

DaveAsprey: It'sautomated.

PhilipReed: It'sso...He'sbeenplayingforabout15years.Yeah,andheplayedalsofortheMITteam.Theywouldgointoacasinowiththeteams,they'dgive$5,000toeachofthecounters,andthenthebigplayershad$15,000andtheywouldcomedownandmake$5,000bets.So,youbetterbeaccuratewiththecountifyou'reputtingthatkindofmoneydown.

DaveAsprey: OneoftheguysonmyteamatWharton,mybusinessschool,wasaroommateoftheMITguysthatthebookwaswrittenabout.Therealfamousbookabout...

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: Youknow,weirdbehaviors.

PhilipReed: BringingDowntheHouse,yup.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,BringingDowntheHouse.IfirstheardaboutcardcountingactuallywhenIwasakidbecausemyfatherwasaback-upplayerfortheBerkeleycardcountingteambackwhenitwasfirstinvented.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: Hisprofessorwhowasoneofthefounders,Idon'tremembertheguy'sname,actuallyflewtheteamouttoMonacoandbrokethehouse.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Morocco,Monaco.God,Iforget,oneofthe'M'countries,orIt’sMonacoyeah.

PhilipReed: It'sMonaco.

DaveAsprey: Monaco,yeah,andbrokeoneofthehouses.

PhilipReed: Yup.


19

DaveAsprey: Thefinalline,andIjustrememberthisstorybeingtoldoverthedinnertablewithmydad,andfinallinewasoneofthecardcountingteams,theprofessorhadatwenty.Therewasonecardleft,andhesaid"hit."

Thedealer'slike,"Iwon'thitthat!'

Finally,helookedatthedealerandsays,"givemethef'nace,"andturnsitover,anditwasanace.Thatwasafinalthing.

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: But,thisreallyhappened,andit'sreallyhighstakesandjustfascinatingstuff.Ithinkit'scoolthatyouwroteabookaboutitbecausenoonethinksaboutthedifferencebetweencrosswordpuzzlesandSudoku,andcardcounting.Itellyou,whatyoudidforyourbrain,absolutelykickedass,oversittingaroundandplayingcrosswordallthetime.Becauseitcamewithsomesortofrisk,andthatiswhatmakesthebrainadapt.Ifyou'rejustsittingthere,"welltheriskisImightrunout...I'llhavetosharpenmypencil."It'stoomilktoast,itdoesn'twork.

PhilipReed: Right,itdoesn'tkeepyoufocused.Imean,itkindofgoesbacktothatthingweweretalkingaboutearlier.Ifyouperceivedanger,you'regoingtobereallyfocused,andyou'regoingtopushintonewterritories,that'stheotherthingisthatyoucan'tartificiallyinventthesethings.Youalmosthavetogointoarealtesttofindoutwhat'sthere,tofindoutwhat'sinyourownmind.Youcan'tjustimagineitorwhatever,it'sgottoallbethere.

Yeah,therewasalotofthat,buttheearlydaysofcardcountingareveryinteresting.ItprettymuchstartedontheWestcoast.TherewasaguynamedAlFranchescawhostartedsomeofthefirstteamsandKennyHoustonwasliketheheadoftheWestCoastStockExchange,andhewasayoungguy,reallybrilliantandeverything.

HeranintoAlFranchescaandAlFranchescatoldhimaboutcardcounting,andallofasuddenhelefthiswifeandkids.Hestartedputtingondisguises,travelingallovertheworld.Hebecameoneofthemostsortoffearedcardcounters.HeorganizedlotsofteamsandthenhediedataprettyyoungageinEurope.Alotofpeople,actuallyBillthinkshemayhavebeenpoisonedbecausehemadealotofenemies.

DaveAsprey: Wow.

PhilipReed: Yeah,Imeanthat'dbeinterestingtotalktoyourdadaboutthat.

DaveAsprey: I'mprettydarnsuretheguy'snamewasAlFranchesca,thatstruckacord,butI'llaskmydadnexttimeIseehim,becauseit'soneofthosethings.Hehasn'ttalkedaboutitinprobably15years,butyoumademethinkofit.It'sreallyneatbecausepartofthisisaboutgamingthesystem,andalotofbio-hackingisalsothatway.


20

Thebody'ssetupacertainwaytorespondtoasetofrulesintheenvironment,andwhenyoulookatpatterns,likeyoudowhenyou'relookingatblackjack,yourealizethattherearepatternsthataren'treallynecessarilyobvious.But,ifyoutakeadvantageofthose,youcouldhavemorecontroloveroutcomesthanyouotherwisewould.Whatappearedtoberandomwasn't,anditwassomethingyoucouldinfluence.That'sjustfun.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: AtleastthewayI'mwired.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Actually,Inoticedthatthepatternthingisreallyinterestingbecauseifyouplayblackjacklongenough,youbegintosortofsensethosepatternscomingtogetheranditpleasesthebrain.Thebrainkindofreactstoit,sortoflike"thisisasystem.Iseeitworking,andtheoutcomenowisnolongerrandom."

DaveAsprey: It'shugedopaminethatcomesfromit.Irememberyoujustdescribedearlierhowyoucanlookatawholetablefullofcardsandjustknowthecountisthree,becauseallthethreesandkingscanceleachotherout.Suddenly,youjustknew,andwhenyouknowandit'seffortless,yougetthisfeelingofbliss.Then,whenyourealize,"thecount'sreallygood,likeI'mputtingitallonthelineonthenexthand."

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andthenitworks,it'swaydifferentthangoingupandputtingitallonblackandthenwinning,andwalkingawaybeingreallyhappyonroulette.

PhilipReed: Ohyeah.

DaveAsprey: There'safeelingofcontrolthatissocool.

PhilipReed: Yeah,wellactuallyoneofthefirstthingsthatBillsaidtomeis,hesaid"youknow,I'mnotagambler."Hesaid,"I'maninvestor."Cardcounterscallthemselvesadvantageplayersbecausetheyhavemathematicaladvantage.It'ssoweirdthathere'sthecasino,everybody'sgambling,havingagoodtime,butthere'sonelittlegroupofpeoplethatcomeinandtheyactuallyhaveanadvantageagainstthehouse.

Thatkindoffascinatedme,itwaslikewhatyou'resaying,itwaslikeahack.Itwaslike,"thisisasystemthatexists,andyoucandoit.Ittakesalongtimetolearnit,butyoucandoit,andyoucanwinmoney,consistently."

DaveAsprey: Now,Alandhisguyshadteamswhere...Atleast,thisisasmydaddescribesit,andI'mprettysureI'vereadabookortwoaboutthisovertheyears.But,oneofthestudentswhorememberstheteamwouldplayjusttogetthecount,andthenthey'dscratchtheirnoseandthenthecollegeprofessorguywouldpretendlikehewasjustshittydrunk,


21

stumbleovertothetable,slapdown$5,000,getthehit,andwalkawayandordersomemorebooze.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Justtokeepthesuspicionaway,andhe'ddothistable,aftertable.Wasthisthesortofthing...Wereyouguystag-teaming,orwereyouworkingindependently?Or,areyounotallowedtosay?

PhilipReed: Well,no,no.Well,Billwaswhattheycallabigplayer.So,hewastheguythatwouldcomeinandputdownthebigbets.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

PhilipReed: So,yeah.Theyhadateam,andtheywouldtrainthestudentstobeconverse,andthenhewastheonewhowouldmakethebigbets,becausejusttobeclear,youhavetomakeitlooklikeit'sluck.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: Ifyousuddenlystartjumpingyourbets,youknowyousaidthisearlier,butifyousuddenlygofrom$5to$50,or$100,prettysoontheyknow.

DaveAsprey: Ohyeah,theywerewatchingmeinTahoe.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Iabsolutelyknewit,butIneverwonthatmuchmoney.Itwas$1,000,$2,000.

PhilipReed: Sure.

DaveAsprey: AndthenIwouldleave,becauseIlivethere.Itwasn'tlikeIcouldn'tdoiteverynightifIwantedto.

PhilipReed: Yeah,right,right,andthat'sthewaythatyoureallyneedtodoit.No,soBillandI,wedidn'treallydothat.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

PhilipReed: Imean,weplayed,wepooledourmoneywiththepriestandBill,andthenweplayedoutofthelargerbankroll.

DaveAsprey: Right.


22

PhilipReed: But,thereareotherwaysthat,liketherearehusbandandwifeteams.IreadaboutacouplethatgoestoAtlanticCityandthehusbandsitsthereandplaysandchats,anddrinks,buthiswifestandsbehindhimandsqueezeshisshouldergivinghimthecount.So,she'scompletelyfocused.

Thereareotherways,too.Like,thereweretwoguys,theystandonoppositesidesofthepitplaying,andthenwhenthecountgetshigh,theyswitchpositionsandmakebigbetsattheotherguy'stable.

So,there'sbeenallsortsoflittlewaystogamethesystemandmakemoney.Buttheproblemis,yougottokeepmoving.Yougottoavoiddetectionbecausefacialrecognitionsoftware'sgettingbetterallthetime.They'rebeginningtocountcardsupstairs.So,iftheythinkyou'recounting,theycallsurveillance.Surveillanceputsthecardsintoacomputer,countsthem.Ifyouraiseyourbetswhenthecountishigh,you'rehistory.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,Wiredhadagoodarticleaboutthisafewyearsagoaboutthetechnologytocounterthecardcounters.Forpeoplelistening,ifyou'reintothiskindofsystems,youknowsystemsevolve,it'safascinatingexamplewhereyouwouldneverimaginetheamountoftechthat'sdeployedtofigureoutwhensomeone'sdoingthissothat...They'relookingatallsortsofveryfinedetailsandsharinginformation.Whatthey'redoingactuallymakeslikeInterpolortheIRS,oranyofthegovernmentbodiesactuallylooksortoflame.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: Itisreallyadvanced.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: That'stheconstantarmsracethatwehavewhenwegetcontrolofthesystem.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Thesystemoftentimesfightsback.

PhilipReed: Absolutely,andyouknowBillsaysallthetimethatthefearofcardcountersonthebehalfofthecasinos,it'sreallyunjustified,becausealotofpeopletrytodoitandtheycan'twin.Whattheyreallyneedtobeafraidofistheteamsthatarereallygood,comein,andcantakequiteabitofmoney.But,yeah,mostpeople...whatwedidwasalwaysjustkindofahitandrun.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.


23

PhilipReed: Becauseittakesabout20minutesforthemtobesuspicious.Ittakesafewmoreminutesforthemtocallsurveillanceandallofthat.So,youcanmakeaprettygoodlivingplayinghalfhour,20minutesessions,andjustgoingfromcasinotocasino.Like,ifwegotoLasVegas,we'lljustkindofdoarotationandwetexteachotherafterwe'veplayed.Howmuchtheywon,howmuchtheylost,orwhattheconditionsarelike,andallthat.It'sawholelotoffun,particularlywhenthepriestisaround,youknow?

DaveAsprey: So,ifIwasgoingtogoto...

PhilipReed: He'sabigShaniaTwainfan,so.

DaveAsprey: Nice.

PhilipReed: Wehadtogototheshow,yeah.

DaveAsprey: Youhaveanexcusetogo,right?Yougototheconcert,andyoupayforyourtickets,andeverybodywins,right?

PhilipReed: Yeah,right.

DaveAsprey: So,ifIwasgoingtogotoVegastomorrowtoplayblackjack,whatarefivethingsyoucouldteachmenowthatwouldhelpmewin?And,obviouslyeveryonelistening,they'reallinterested,too.

PhilipReed: Yeah.Wellfirstofall,youcanwritedownacoupleofthingsonacocktailnapkinandtakeittothetablewithyou.Theydon'tcare.Youcangetthosebasicstrategycards.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,they'llgiveyouoneifyouaskthem.

PhilipReed: Andyoucan...Yup,they'llgiveyouthem,youconsult.Youcanaskthedealerifyoushouldhitorstand,butsometimestheydon'tevenknow,youknow?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

PhilipReed: So,ifyouweregoingtoLasVegas,Iwouldsaydownloadanappandplayonyourphone,becauseyouseepeopleplayingsolitaireallthetimeandthey'renevergoingtomakeanymoneydoingthat.So,whynotlearntoplayblackjack?Becausetheinterestingthingaboutblackjackisyoucangetabout80%ofthewaywithaboutfivesimplerules.Youknow,gettheapp,play.Ifyourtrip'saweekorsoaway,you'llbeinprettygoodshapebythetimeyougettherebecauseit'snothardtogetalmostevenwiththecasinojustusingbasicstrategy.

DaveAsprey: Right.


24

PhilipReed: Soifyouknowperfectbasicstrategy,you'reaboutaquarterofapercentdisadvantaged.ThatwouldbeoneofthefirstthingsI'drecommend.Then,theotherrulesareyoualwaysspliteightsandaces.That'soneofthereallybigones.Then,basicallyhituntilyouget17,ifthedealerhasseven,orabove.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.Realbasicstuff,right?

PhilipReed: Yeah,butyouknowyoustillseepeoplelike"oh,whatshouldIdo?Hitorstand?"Butthenbeyondthat,there'salotofthingsthatyoucandoubleandsplit,whichwillmakeyouatonofmoney.Basicallythewaythegameisconstructedyou'llonlywinabout47%ofthehands.So,you'retryingtoovercomethisdeficitofabout3%andyoudothatbydoublingandsplitting,andraisingyourbets.

Onceyoubegintodothat,youcandowell.Youcanplayeven.Youcangetsomenicewinsandawholebunchofcompsifyoulikegoingthere.IfyoulikegoingtoVegasanyways,andyouliketositatatableandplay,whynotlearnafewsimplerules?

Anotheronethatwehighlyrecommendistotrytoplayalone.So,playinthemornings,becausethetableswillbeempty,andthestakeswillbelower.Youdon'twanttoplaywithabunchofpeople.Mostpeopleplaywithalotofpeoplebecausetheywanttoquoteunquote,looseslowly,becausetheythinkthey'regoingtoloose.

DaveAsprey: Right.

PhilipReed: Soplayingheadupagainstthedealer'sagoodwaytogo.I'mnotsurethatwasfive,butitwasafewgoodthings.

DaveAsprey: Itwasstillsomegoodtips.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Whatperformanceenhancingsubstancesdidyoufindworkedbest,ifyouweregoingtodocardcounting?

PhilipReed: So,numberone:coffee.Coffee,agoodnight'ssleep,meditation,that'snotasubstance,butmeditationwasreallygoodtocalmyoudownandincreasethespeedofprocessing.Abouthalfwaythroughthebook,IgottestedforADD,soIusedAdderall,andAdderallspeedsupyourcognition.So,youjustdothingsfaster,andthat'suseful.Idon'tparticularlylikeAdderall.

DaveAsprey: Idon'teither.

PhilipReed: Ilikemodafinilbetter,butIdidn'tusethat.Idiscoveredthatlateintheprocess.But,I'dlovetotrysomeoftheBulletproofsubstances,too.


25

DaveAsprey: You'vealreadygotthem.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: There'stwoprofessionalpokerplayers.Actually,cometothinkofit,there'sthreeprofessionalpokerplayerswhouseBulletproofextensively.Idon'tknowanyprofessionalblackjackplayerswhouseit,butNamisaworldchampion,NamLe,aworldchampionpokerplayer,likeWorldSeriesofPoker.Justcompletelychangedthewayheplayed,andnowwhenhebackssomeone,herequiresthattheyuseBulletproofcoffeebecauseyoujusthavemoreenergyforthis.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: Whichisreallykindoffunny.Andokay,soIknowthatyou'regoingtolikebrainoctaneBulletproofcoffee.Yousaidmodafinilyoudiscoveredlateintheprocess.

PhilipReed: Yes.

DaveAsprey: Adderallkindof,butyoudon'tlikeit.Whataboutfood?

PhilipReed: Iusedthenormalginkgobiloba.

DaveAsprey: Ginkgo.

PhilipReed: Ginsengtosomedegree.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

PhilipReed: Yup.

DaveAsprey: I'llmakesurewesendyousomeCholineforce,whichItalkedaboutatthebeginningoftheshow.Havingmoreacetylcholineforalotofbrains,canreallyhelponthiskindofthingaswell.Thisisoneofthestimulatoryfocusingneurotransmitters,it'sparticularlyimportantforthiskindofstuff.

WhatIfound,too,wasthat,dependingonyourtoleranceforthings,ifIdiditnow,IwouldhaveBulletproofcoffee.But,backwhenIwasdoingalotofthisstuff,Ihadfiguredoutsomeaspectsofthediet,butnotallofthem.Intheveryearlydays,oneofthethingsthatgetsyouisyou'realwaysdrinkingeitheralcohol,orsugar,andyou'reeatingjunkfood.Theyactuallyplyyouwiththatstuffonpurpose.

PhilipReed: Oh,absolutely.

DaveAsprey: Becausetheyknowthatitmakesyoumakebaddecisions.


26

PhilipReed: Yes.

DaveAsprey: Well,ifyou'rethereatthetableandyou'reonawinningstreak,andyou'renotgoingtoeataBulletproofbar,whichiswhatIwoulddonow.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Whatyoucandothough,isyoucanactuallytellthemthatyouwantanorangeJuliuswitharawegginit,andthey'llstilldothat.GodknowswhattheyactuallyputintheorangeJulius,it'sprobablyskimmilk,powder,bunchofcrap;butintheolddays,itwasbasicallyaraweggblendedwithmilkandorangejuice.It'stheclosestthingyoucangettosomethingwithproteinandfatatacasinoifyoudidn'thaveanythingwithyouandyou'renotgoingtoleavethetable.

PhilipReed: Okay.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldnotrecommendthatasahealthfood.It'snotaBulletprooffood.It'sjustbetterthan"oh,letmehavetwoshotsoftequila,"oramartini,orsomething.

PhilipReed: Right.

DaveAsprey: That'sgoingtotakeyououtofyourgame.I'massumingyoudidn'tdrink,ordidyoudrinkbeerwhenyoudidthis,or?

PhilipReed: Well,ithelpsifyoudoorderabeer.

DaveAsprey: Butdoyoudrinkitorjustorderit?

PhilipReed: Justorderit.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

PhilipReed: Sothatitlookslikeyou'reahappygolucky.WhatBillwoulddoisgetamartini,pouritoutintherestroomandrefillitwithwaterbutkeeptheolive.So,itlookedlikehewasdrinkingvodkaorgin.It'sagoodideabecausetheprofileofthecardcounter,ofcourseyou'redrinkingPerrier,you'renottippingthedealer,allthosethings.Youwanttogetawayfromallofthat.

DaveAsprey: Okay,soyouwanttoblendinandlookalittledrunk.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Allright.

PhilipReed: Yeah.


27

DaveAsprey: That'ssupercool.Ifsomeonetomorrowsaid"hey,Iwanttolearnhowtocountcards."Whatwouldyoutellthem?Like,"I'matotalvirgin.WhatdoIdo?"

PhilipReed: Youknow,Ithinkallowyourselfenoughtimetoreallydoitforreal.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

PhilipReed: Don'tthinkyou'regoingtodoitovernight.Findagoodsystem,andaplaceyoucanpracticeatsmallstakes.Then,Iwouldsay,don'tbetoodiscouragedbyearlylosses,anddon'tbetooencouragedbyearlywins,becausebothofthose,you'llfind,arealittlemisleading.Giveyourselftimetodoit,andmakesurethatyouknowthatyourprocessingspeedwhenyou'reinyourlivingroom,atyourkitchentable,theytalkaboutkitchentableblackjackplayers,isgoingtobeverydifferentthancasinoconditions.It'salittlebitlikeshootingfreethrowsaloneingym,andthenhavingthegameontheline.

DaveAsprey: Yes.

PhilipReed: So,allowtimetodothatandunderstandtheprocess.Then,beyondthat,findagoodsystem.Thereareprobably25differentcardcountingsystems.Someofthemareverysimpleandsomeofthemareverychallenging.Itwillbeaninterestingjourneyintoyourownbrainandhowyouwork.

DaveAsprey: Ilovetheideaofcountingcardsasawayofselfdiscovery,andmyexperiencewascertainlythat.Iwasnowherenearatyourlevel,butthere'salottobelearnedaboutyourcognitivestyle.

PhilipReed: Yes.

DaveAsprey: Andhowyouperformunderpressureinthisscenario.It'sgreatfun,andit'slegal,andit'snottakingawayfromanyone.Exceptthehouse,ifyou'relucky,andtheydeserveit.

PhilipReed: Theydo.Blackheartedcorporations.

DaveAsprey: Now,justonemorequestionforyou,andonethat'sbeenoneveryepisodeofBulletproofRadio.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandinsteadofaskingaboutcountingcards,theyjustsaid"look,IwanttobebetterateverysinglethingIdoinlife.Like,Iwanttobeabetterhumanbeing."

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofadviceyou'dofferthem?

PhilipReed: Well,Ithinkunderstandthatyou'renowherenearaslimitedasyouthinkyouare.Thesecondthingislearnhowtofaceyourfears.IthinkIgotthisideathatifyou'reafraidofsomething,youshouldgostraightatitbecauseifyoudo,there'ssomethingthatwillgo


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alongwithyoutogiveyouthestrengthtosucceed.Thenthethirdthingistounderstandthatreallyanythingworthdoingwilltaketimetoaccomplish.So,thoseareafewofthethingsthatI'velearnedinmyless-than-perfectlife.

DaveAsprey: Thankyouforsharingthose.PhilipReed,authorof"WildCards,"wherecanpeoplefindmoreaboutyourbooks?

PhilipReed: Well,youcangetaKindleversionofit.It'salsooutinhardcover,andrightnowit'sBarnesandNoble,anactualbookstore,still,whichisveryexciting.

DaveAsprey: Wellthatmakesiteasytopickitup.

PhilipReed: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Sothen,titleofthebookis"WildCards,"andthefulltitle,Ihavetoscrollupheretorememberthewholetitlebecauseit'sreallylong."WildCards:AYearCountingCardswithaProfessionalBlackjackPlayer,aPriest,anda$30,000Bankroll."ThanksagainforbeingonBulletproofRadio.

PhilipReed: Ihadagreattime.Thankyou,Dave.

DaveAsprey: Ifyouenjoyedtoday'sepisode,I'dloveitifyouwentouttoiTunesandyoutookjustaminutetoleaveareview.YoucanalsofindBulletproofRadiowithfulltranscripts,interactivetranscriptswhereyoucanjustlittlebitsofthisandshareitwithyourfriends.YoufindthisonBulletproofExec.comandyoucanheadonovertoPodcastOne,whichisthepodcastnetworkthatdistributesBulletproofRadio,andthere'sabunchofothergoodstuffthereaswell.So,Iappreciateyoursupport.Iappreciateyoulistening,andhaveanawesomeday.MakeitmoreawesomewithCholineForce.Ifyoulikethisepisode,trythatstuff,seewhatyoucandoforyourbrain.

transcript of “292 with philip reed”blog.bulletproof.com/.../transcript-phillip-reed.pdf ·...

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