usa v. ulbricht transcript, 1/20
TRANSCRIPT
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 1/178
562
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 ------------------------------x
3 UNITED STATES OF AERICA!
" #$ 1" Cr$ 6% &KBF'
5 ROSS WILLIA ULBRICHT!
6 D()(*+a*,$
------------------------------x
% N(. Y/r0! N$Y$
a*ar 24! 2415
1144 a$7$
14
B()/r(
11
HON$ KATHERINE B$ FORREST!
12
Di8,ri9, +:(
13
1" A;;EARANCES
15
;REET BHARARA!
16 U*i,(+ S,a,(8 A,,/r*( )/r ,<( S/,<(r* Di8,ri9, /) N(. Y/r0
1 BY SERRIN A$ TURNER
TIOTHY HOWARD
1% A88i8,a*, U*i,(+ S,a,(8 A,,/r*(8
1 OSHUA LEWIS DRATEL
LINDSAY LEWIS
24 OSHUA HOROWIT=
A,,/r*(8 )/r D()(*+a*,
21
- al8/ >r(8(*, -
22
S>(9ial A:(*, ?i*9(*, D@A:/8,i*/
23 /ll R/8(*! G/#(r*7(*, ;aral(:al
Ni9</la8 E#(r,! G/#(r*7(*, ;aral(:al
2" S<ar/* Ki7! G/#(r*7(*, I*,(r*
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 2/178
563
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 &Ca8( 9all(+ i* />(* 9/r, r */, >r(8(*,'
2 R$ DRATEL T<a*0 / )/r /r a99/77/+a,i/*8$
3 THE COURT T<(8( ,<i*:8 <a>>(*$ T// a+ i, <a>>(*(+
" ,/ la,( a, *i:<, )/r /! , <(r( .( ar( a*+ i,@8 all 8(, a,
5 ,<i8 >/i*,$ I, a9,all +i+ <a#( ,<( a+#a*,a:( -- >l(a8( (
6 8(a,(+! all /) / -- /) :i#i*: 7( 8/7( a++i,i/*al ,i7( ,/ :/
,<r/:< 8/7( 7a,,(r8$ I@#( :/, /*( a*+ ,<(* >/88il a 8(9/*+
% 7a,,(r rai8(+ ,<( :/#(r*7(*, i* a l(,,(r ,<i8 7/r*i*: ,/ :/
/#(r$ T<( 7ai* 7a,,(r ,<a, I .a*,(+ ,/ a++r(88 ()/r( .( 8,ar,
14 i8 ,<( (#i+(*,iar i88( l(), /#(r /* T<r8+a! .<i9< .a8 ,<(
11 8(9, /) ,<( 8i:*i)i9a*, l(,,(r 87i88i/*8 ,<a, I r(9(i#(+
12 /* ,<( 1,< )r/7 /,< 8i+(8$
13 Ar( ,<(r( /,<(r i88(8 a>ar, )r/7 ,<( /*( rai8(+ ,<i8
1" 7/r*i*: a*+ ,<( /,<(r ,<a, .a8 ,<( 8(9, /) ,<( 8i:*i)i9a*,
15 87i88i/*8 ,<a, / )/l08 .a*, ,/ rai8( I 8, .a*, ,/ :(, a
16 8(*8( /) </. 7a* ,<i*:8 .( *((+ ,/ a++r(88 ()/r( .( (:i*$
1 R$ TURNER T<(r( ar( ,<r(( /,<(r8$
1% THE COURT Ar( ,<( 8</r, /r l/*:(r
1 R$ TURNER T./ I ,<i*0 ar( )airl 8</r,! ,./ i*
24 >ar,i9lar$ O*( /) .<i9< .(@+ li0( ,/ a++r(88 a, 8i+( ar$
21 THE COURT I8 ,<a, ,<( /*( )r/7 /r 8</r, l(,,(r
22 R$ TURNER T<(r(@8 a* a++i,i/*al /*($
23 THE COURT T<(* i8 ,<(r( a* ,<a, / 9a* /,<(r.i8(
2" rai8( a*+ .(@ll 0*/90 ,</8( /)) a*+ :(, ,<(7 +/*(
25 R$ TURNER Sr($ O*( i8 #(r 8</r,$ W( ,<i*0 a*
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
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56"
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 i*8,r9,i/* 8</l+ ( :i#(* ,/ ,<( r a, 8/7( >/i*, ,<a, a*
2 r(+a9,i/*8 ,<( 8(( i* ,<( (x<ii,8 8</l+ */, ( ,a0(* ,/ 7(a*
3 a*,<i*:$ T<(@r( :(*(rall ,/ >r/,(9, >ri#a,( i*)/r7a,i/*
" ,<a, 7i:<, a>>(ar i* ,<( +/97(*,8$
5 THE COURT r$ Dra,(l! +/ / <a#( a* />>/8i,i/* ,/
6 a* i*8,r9,i/* al/*: ,</8( li*(8
R$ DRATEL N/! 8, ,<a, i,@8 */, r(l(#a*,$ T<a,@8
% .< i,@8 r(+a9,(+$
R$ TURNER A*+ a*/,<(r i88( .( .a*,(+ ,/ rai8( i8
14 +ri*: 9r/88-(xa7i*a,i/* /* T<r8+a! ,<( +()(*8( a80(+ S>(9ial
11 A:(*, D(r-Y(:<iaa* a/, .<(,<(r ,<(r( .(r( r(8,ri9,i/*8 a/,
12 .<a, .a8 8/l+ /* ,<( 8i,(! ,<a, ,<(r( .(r( */ a88a88i*a,i/*8!
13 ,<(r( .(r( */ 9r(+i, 9ar+8! 8,/l(* 9r(+i, 9ar+ i*)/r7a,i/*$
1" A*+ a8 /r H/*/r i8 a.ar(! /r H/*/r rl(+ /ri:i*all ,<a,
15 ,<( :/#(r*7(*, 9a**/, i*,r/+9( (#i+(*9( /) *9<ar:(+ 9ri7i*al
16 9/*+9, ,<a, /99rr(+ /* ,<( 8i,(! a*+ .( (li(#( ,<a, ,<(
1 +()(*8(@8 (8,i/* <a8 />(*(+ ,<( +//r ,/ ,<a,$ T<(r( .(r(
1% :*8 ,<a, .(r( 8/l+ /* ,<( 8i,($ T<(r( .a8 9/*,(r)(i,
1 a>>ar(l$ T<(r( .a8 8,/l(* -- ,<(r(@8 >ira,(+ 8/),.ar(! (,9$
24 THE COURT L(, 7( a80 / a/, ,<a, (9a8( /*( /)
21 ,<( r(a8/*8 )/r ,<( C/r,@8 rli*: .a8 */, /*l r(l(#a*9! ,
22 i, .a8 al8/ ,<a, ,<( a8i8 )/r :(,,i*: ,<a, i*)/r7a,i/* i*
23 r(ir(+! I (li(#( i* 8/7( i*8,a*9(8! :(,,i*: ,<r/:< ,<(
2" <(ar8a /(9,i/* )/r ,<( ></,/:ra><8 /) ,<( .(8i,( .<i9<
25 i*+i9a,(+ ,<( *ar9/,i98! ,<a, ,<(r(@8 a 9/9/*8>ira,/r (x9(>,i/*
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 4/178
565
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 .<i9< ,<( C/r, 7a+( rli*:8 /*$ B, )/r ,<i*:8 li0(
2 9/*,(r)(i, G99i (l,! ,<( (8,i/* i8! i) /@r( :/i*: ,/ 8a
3 ,<a, 9/*,(r)(i, ,<i*:8 .(r(! i* )a9,! 8/l+ #(r88 ,<(r( .(r(
" a+#(r,i8(7(*,8 89< a8 ! I ,<i*0 ,<(r(@8 a <(ar8a >r/l(7$
5 I) / 8a ,<(r( .(r( 9/*,(r)(i, ,<i*:8 8/l+! I ,<i*0 .( r*
6 i*,/ ,<i8 >r/l(7$ I) /@r( :/i*: ,/ 8a .(r( / a.ar( ,<a,
,<(r( .(r( a+#(r,i8(7(*,8 )/r ,<( )/ll/.i*: ,<i*:8 a*+ l(a#(
% ,<a, />(*! ,<a,@8 a +i))(r(*, all($
R$ TURNER T<(r( ar( a 9/>l( /) >/i*,8 Fir8, /)
14 all! I ,<i*0 ,<( 9/9/*8>ira,/r (x9(>,i/* ./l+ a>>l ,/ ,<(
11 8a7( (x,(*, ,<( 9/9/*8>ira,/r (x9(>,i/* +/(8*@, <a#( ,/ a>>l
12 ,/ a 9<ar:(+ 9/*8>ira9! i,@8 8, a* 9/*8>ira9$ A*+ .(
13 9/*,i*( ,/ ,a0( ,<( >/8i,i/* ,<a, ,<(8( 8,a,(7(*,8 ar( */,
1" (#(* /))(r(+ )/r ,<( ,r,<$ I, ./l+ ( a0i* ,/ 8/7(/+
15 >/8,i*: >i9,r(8 /) a :r/9(r 8,/r( .i,< ,<( i,(78 /* 8al( a*+
16 ,<( >ri9(8$ T<(8( ar( */, 8,a,(7(*,8! , ,<(@r( (#i+(*9(
1 ,<a, ,<(r(@8 8/7(,<i*: (i*: 8/l+ ,<(r( a8 r()l(9,(+ i* ,<(
1% a+#(r,i8(7(*,$ T<(@r( /))(r8$ T<(@r( */, 8,a,(7(*,8 .i,< a
1 ,r,< #al($
24 THE COURT T<a,@8 I ,<i*0 ,<( 8(9/*+ a#(*( ,<a, I
21 .a8 />(*i*: >$ 8::(8,i/* i8! i) /@r( :/i*: ,/ 8a ,<(8(
22 ar( ,<( ,<i*:8 ,<a, .(r( a+#(r,i8(+! / .(r( a80(+ a/,
23 9(r,ai* ://+8 a*+ 8(r#i9(8 ,<a, .(r( */, (i*: a+#(r,i8(+! .(r(
2" / a.ar( /) /,<(r ,<i*:8 ,<a, .(r( (i*: a+#(r,i8(+ /,<(r ,<a*
25 .<a, .( ,al0(+ a/, Y(8! 89< a8 ,<(8( ,>(8 /)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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566
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 a+#(r,i8(7(*,8$
2 R$ TURNER Ri:<,$
3 THE COURT Ar( / :/i*: ,/ :/ a* )r,<(r ,<a* ,<a,
" R$ TURNER N/$ W( 9a* 8,i90 ,/ a+#(r,i8(7(*,8 /r .(
5 9a* 8i7>l 8,ri0( ,<( ,(8,i7/* ,<a, .a8 alr(a+ a+7i,,(+ a*+
6 .( +/*@, <a#( ,/ :(, i*,/ ,</8( /,<(r ://+8! , .( +/ ,<i*0
,<( +()(*8( />(*(+ ,<( +//r ,/ ,<a, 8/r, /) (#i+(*9( .i,< ,<a,
% (8,i/*i*:$
THE COURT r$ Dra,(l! +/ / <a#( a r(8>/*8( ,/
14 ,<a,! )ir8,! .<(,<(r /r */, .( (li7i*a,( i, 8, 8,ri0i*:
11 ,<( i*)/r7a,i/* (li9i,(+ a8 ,/ .<a, .a8 */, 8/l+! 8, /* ,<(
12 a8i8 .i,< 8/r, /) a 8</r, 8,a,(7(*, ,<a, / <(ar+ ,(8,i7/*
13 a/, .<a, 7a */, <a#( ((* 8/l+ a*+ ,<( /*l ,<i*: ,<a,@8
1" r(all r(l(#a*, <(r( i8 i*)/r7a,i/* r(l(#a*, ,/ ,<( 9<ar:(8$
15 T<a, ./l+ ( /*( .a /) <a*+li*: i,! a*+ */, :(,,i*: i*,/ ,<(
16 />(*i*: /) ,<( +//r )/r ,<( /,<(r >i(9(8$
1 R$ DRATEL Ri:<,$ I ,<i*0 .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ />(*i*:
1% ,<( +//r! ,</:<! i, +i+*@, />(* ,<( +//r i* ,<( 8(*8( ,<a,
1 8ai*: .<a, i8 */, >(r7i,,(+ /* ,<( 8i,(! .<i9< .a8 a99ra,(!
24 +/(8 */, />(* ,<( +//r ,/ .<a, .a8 >(r7i,,(+ /* ,<( 8i,($ S/
21 i* /,<(r ./r+8! ,<( :/#(r*7(*, -- i,@8 */, ,<a, ,<( ,(8,i7/*
22 .a8 i*a99ra,( /r 7i8l(a+i*: i* a*.a (9a8( I +i+*@, 8a
23 ,<a, a*,<i*: ,<a, ,<( :/#(r*7(*, .a*,8 ,/ >, i* .a8 */,
2" /))(r(+ /* ,<( 8i,(! /*l ,</8( 8>(9i)i9 ,<i*:8 ,<a, .(r( */,
25 all/.(+ /* ,<( 8i,($
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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56
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 THE COURT I +/ r(7(7(r ,<( (8,i/*i*: (9a8( I
2 a9,all <a+ ,<( 8a7( ,</:<, a/, i, )alli*: i*,/ ,<( />(*i*:
3 /) ,<( +//r )/r ,<(8( /,<(r >i(9(8$ O*( /) ,<( i7>li9a,i/*8
" .a8 ,<a, r(all a+ ,<i*:8! /,<(r 0i*+8 /) a+ ,<i*:8 .(r( */,
5 /))(r(+ /* ,<( 8i,(! )/r i*8,a*9(! ,<i*:8 .<i9<! ,/ >i90 > /*
6 a ,<(7( I ,<i*0 <a8 ((* +(#(l/>(+! 9/l+ */, <ar7 >(/>l( ,<a,
a8 .( <a#( 8((* )r/7 ,<( 8i:*a,r( li*( /) 9(r,ai* 9<a,8! ,<(
% +r:8 +/*@, 7> /)) ,<( ,al( a*+ <ar7 a*/*($ S/ I ,<i*0
i7>li9a,i/* 8i*9( ,</8( +/97(*,8 ar( i*! ,<( (8,i/* /)
14 .<(,<(r /r */, :*8 .(r( (i*: 8/l+! I 8>>/8( / 9/l+ ar:(
11 ,<a, ,<( +/*@, 7> /)) ,<( ,al( a*+ <r, 8/7(/*( (i,<(r! ,
12 i,@8 a li,,l( )r,<(r a)i(l+$ I,@8 >/,(*,iall />(*(+$
13 W< +/*@, / ,(ll 7( .<(,<(r /r */, /@+ ( .illi*:
1" ,/ 8,ri0( ,<( li*( I ./l+ +/ i, i* a .a ,<a, i8 #(r I
15 ,<i*0 #(r li:<,! .<i9< i8 / 7a <a#( <(ar+ ,(8,i7/* a/,
16 /,<(r ://+8 a*+ 8(r#i9(8 ,<a, .(r( /r .(r( */, 8/l+ /* ,<(
1 8i,($ W<a,@8 r(l(#a*, ,/ /! la+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! /) ,<(
1% r i8 ,<( (#i+(*9( ,<a, / <a#( a*+ i,@8 )/r / ,/ .(i:<
1 ,<a, (#i+(*9( a8 ,/ .<a, <a8 ((* 8/l+ /* ,<( 8i,($
24 R$ DRATEL Ca* I ,<i*0 a/, ,<a, )/r a li,,l( i,$
21 THE COURT Y(8$ T<( /,<(r i88(! .a8 ,<(r( 8/7(,<i*:
22 (l8(! r$ Tr*(r
23 R$ TURNER T<(r(@8 a ,<ir+ i88( .(@+ li0( ,/ rai8(
2" a, 8i+( ar$
25 THE COURT Ri:<,$ W( <a#( ,./ 8i+( ar i88(8$ T<(*
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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56%
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 l(, 7( +(al .i,< ,<( i88( .<i9< .( <a#( all 8>(*, I a887( a
2 :r(a, +(al /) ,i7( /* /#(r ,<( .((0(*+$ A*+ a8 i8 ,<( 9a8(
3 .i,< rli*:8 li0( ,<i8! I <a#( r(a+ ,<( 9a8(8 .<i9< / )/l08
" <a#( >r(8(*,(+ 7( .i,<! )/r .<i9< I ,<a*0 /! a*+ al8/ +i+
5 ra,<(r (x<a8,i#( r(8(ar9< /* /r /.* ,/ 9/7( > .i,< .<a, i8
6 ,<( ri:<, .a ,/ a*al( ,<i8 (#i+(*,iar i88($ A*+ I@7
8>(a0i*: */. a/, ,<( (#i+(*,iar i88( l(), /#(r )r/7
% T<r8+a a),(r*//*$ I@7 :/i*: ,/ 9all i, ,<( K i88( )/r ,<(
ar0 Kar>(l(8 i88(! , i, al8/ 9a* r(la,( ,/ 8/7(,<i*: 7/r(
14 :(*(ri9all +(89ri(+ a8 a* al,(r*a,i#( >(r>(,ra,/r i88($
11 I <a#( r(a+ ,<( l(,,(r8 87i,,(+ ,<( >ar,i(8$ I
12 <a#( r(a+ ,<( 9a8(8 a*+ I al8/ .(*, a90 a*+ r(#i(.(+ ,<(
13 ,ra*89ri>, /) /r >ri/r >r/9((+i*:8$ O*( ,<i*: I ./l+ */,( i8
1" ,<a, ,<( >ri/r ,ra*89ri>, +i+ 9/*#i*9( 7( ,<a, ,<(r( .(r(!
15 <a#i*: */. +(9i+(+ </. ,/ a*al( ,<i8 i88( >r/>(rl! ,<(r(
16 .(r( all 0i*+8 /) ,<i*:8 ,/ .<i9< ,<( :/#(r*7(*, >r/al
1 8</l+ <a#( -- *+/,(+l 8</l+ <a#( /(9,(+ (arli(r a*+ .(
1% ./l+ <a#( ri>(*(+ ,<i8 i88( ()/r( i, <a+ :/,,(* 8/ )ar +/.*
1 ,<( r/a+$ ;ar, /) ,<( 9/*)8i/* <(r( i8 ,ri*: ,/
24 +i))(r(*,ia,( (,.((* 8i7ilar ,>(8 /) (8,i/*8 .<(* 9(r,ai*
21 (8,i/*8 .(r(*@, /(9,(+ ,/ a*+ ,<(* /,<(r8 .(r( /(9,(+ ,/$
22 B, l(,@8 >, ,<a, i88( /) .<(,<(r ,<(r( ./l+ ( a .ai#(r ,/
23 ,<( 8i+( )/r a 7/7(*, a*+ l(, 7( ,(ll / </. I a*al,i9all
2" >, ,<i8 i88( ,/:(,<(r$
25 I .a*, ,/ 8,ar, )r/7 ,<( (:i**i*:! .<i9< I ,<i*0 i8
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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56
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 i7>/r,a*, .<i9< i8 a80i*: /r8(l#(8 a8 ,/ a* (#i+(*,iar
2 rli*: .<a, i8 ,<i8 9a8( r(all a/,$ T<i8 9a8( i8 a/,
3 .<(,<(r ,<i8 +()(*+a*,! r$ R/88 Ulri9<,! (*:a:(+ i* ,<(
" 9/*+9, ,<a, i8 9<ar:(+ i* ,<( 9/*,8 i* ,<( i*+i9,7(*,$ S/
5 ,<(* .( :(, ,/ .<a, i8 r(l(#a*, (#i+(*9( R(l(#a*, (#i+(*9( i8
6 (#i+(*9( .<i9< i8 >r/a,i#( /) a )a9, i* +i8>,( a*+ .<(,<(r
,<( +()(*+a*, i8 Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 /r .a8 Dr(a+ ;ira,(
% R/(r,8 a, 9(r,ai* >/i*,8 i* ,i7( , */, /,<(r >/i*,8 i* ,i7(
i8 a )a9, i* +i8>,($
14 T<(* .( a80 .<a,@8 ,<( r(l(#a*9( 7/r( :ra*larl /)
11 .<(,<(r ,<( +()(*+a*, .a8 Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 A*+ ,<a, i8
12 (9a8( a, 9(r,ai* >/i*,8 /) ,i7(! ,<(r( ar( 9(r,ai* >i(9(8 /)
13 (#i+(*9( .<(r( Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 +/(8 9(r,ai* ,<i*:8 .<i9<
1" ,<( :/#(r*7(*, <a8 >r(8(*,(+$ I) Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 a, ,<a,
15 7/7(*, i8 r$ Ulri9<,! ,<(* ,<a, l(a+8 ,/ /*( 8(, /) >/88il(
16 i*)(r(*9(8 i) Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 a, ,<a, >/i*, i* ,i7( i8
1 */, r$ Ulri9<,! ,<(* i, l(a+8 ,/ a*/,<(r$
1% N/.! a (8,i/* .<i9< i8! I ,<i*0! )l/a,i*: ar/*+ i*
1 <(r( ,<r/:< ,<i8 i8 .<(,<(r /r */, ,<( )a9, ,<a, ,<(r( 7i:<,
24 ( - a*+ 9(r,ai*l ,<( +()(*8( i8 ar:i*: - a*/,<(r Dr(a+
21 ;ira,( R/(r,8! +/(8 ,<a, (x9l>a,( ,<( +()(*+a*, I8 i,
22 (x9l>a,/r! a*+ ,<a, i, 7a /r 7a */,$ T<a, .ill ( > ,/
23 ,<( r l,i7a,(l ,/ +(9i+($
2" Fir8,! ,<( r .ill +(9i+( .<(,<(r ,<( (li(#( i*
25 ,<( +()(*8( ,<(/r! .<i9< i, <a8 a ri:<, ,/ >r8( a8 ,/ a*
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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54
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 al,(r*a,i#( >(r>(,ra,/r! a*+ ,<( al,(r*a,i#( >(r>(,ra,/r! ,<(
2 +()(*8( all(:(8! i8 (i,<(r ,<( Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 /r (9a7(
3 Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8 a*+ ,<(* )ra7(+ r$ Ulri9<, a*+ ,r*(+
" /#(r <i8 i+(*,i, ,/ <i7 a, 8/7( >/i*, i* ,i7($
5 N/.! /*l i) ,<( (#i+(*9( r(la,i*: ,/ ,<( Dr(a+ ;ira,(
6 R/(r,8 a, a >ar,i9lar >/i*, i* ,i7( .<(r( ,<( r(a8/*al(
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 10/178
51
F1KGULB1 Trial
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 11/178
52
F1KGULB1 Trial
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
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53
F1KGULB1 Trial
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 13/178
5"
F1KGULB1 Trial
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 14/178
55
F1KGULB1 Trial
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 15/178
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 16/178
5
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
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5%
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1 >/88(88i*:$ I,@8 */, a>>/8i,($ A*+ ,<(* ,<( Wa+( 9a8( .(
24 ,al0(+ a/,! ,<( Wa+( #$ a*,(ll/ 9a8( i8 8>>/r,i#( /) ,<(
21 C/r,@8 #i(.$ I* ,(r78 /) ,<( Ar/la( i8 a 9a8( ,<a, .( )/*+
22 .<i9< i8 a, "54 F$3+ 12%3 a, 124! a*+ i,@8 a* El(#(*,< Cir9i,
23 9a8(! 2446$ T<a,@8 a*/,<(r 9a8( ,al0i*: a/, >r/al( 9a8(
2" i* 9/**(9,i/* .i,< a* i*#(8,i:a,i/* (i*: i*a+7i88il( <(ar8a
25 a*+ ,<( 8,a,(7(*,8 /*l all/.(+ -- i) ,<( .(r( all/.(+ i*! i,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 18/178
5
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 ./l+ ( /*l )/r ,<( >r>/8( /) 8</.i*: 8/7( a7/*, /) ,r,<$
2 S/ <(r( ar( ,<( (8,i/*8! .<i9<! a8(+ >/* all /)
3 ,<(8( >ri*9i>l(8 /) la.! a>>(ar ,/ ,<( C/r, ,/ ( 9l(arl /))
" li7i,8! a*+ ,<(* I@7 :/i*: ,/ :i#( / ,<( /*(8 .<i9< I ,<i*0
5 ar( /* li7i,8$
6 O)) li7i,8 ar( ,<i*:8 89< a8 ,<( )/ll/.i*:! ,<(8(
(8,i/*8 /r r(a8/*al( +(ri#a,i#(8 /) ,<(8( (8,i/*8 Di+
% / 88>(9, ar0 Kar>(l(8 T<( ./r+ 88>(9, i8 a 9/*(9,ral
88>i9i/*$ N/.! I .ill 8a ,<a, .a8 a80(+ i* 8>a+(8 .i,< */
14 /(9,i/* ,<( :/#(r*7(*, (arli(r /*$ I, .a8 a80(+ ,./ /r
11 ,<r(( ,i7(8 /* Fri+a! , .(@ll :(, ,/ .<a, .( +/ i* ,(r78 /)
12 ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 a>>li9a,i/* i* i,8 l(,,(r ,/ 8,ri0(! .<i9< i8
13 8/7(.<a, 9/7>li9a,(+$
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15 )r,<(r (8,i/*i*: i*,/ ,<a,$ Di+ / (li(#( ar0 Kar>(l(8
16 .a8 D;R T<(r( 8</l+ ( */ )r,<(r (8,i/*i*: i*,/ .<(,<(r
1 /r */, ,<i8 .i,*(88 (li(#(+ -- ,<( +/,8 9a* ( +ra.*! , ,<(
1% (li() <( *((+8 ,/ 8,a a.a )r/7$
1 D/ / 88>(9, R/88 Ulri9<, D/ / (li(#( R/88
24 Ulri9<, .a8 D;R Si7ilar! ,<( 8a7( .i,*(88 9a*@, +/ /*(! <(
21 9a*@, +/ ,<( /,<(r$ D/(8 <( 88>(9, ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8
22 />(ra,(+ Sil0 R/a+ D/(8 <( 88>(9, D/(8 <( 88>(9, ar0
23 Kar>(l(8 +i+ */, />(ra,( Sil0 R/a+ B/,< /) ,</8( ar( (all
2" /)) li7i,8$ A* +(89ri>,i/*8 /) (li() ,<a, <( <a8 ar( /))
25 li7i,8$ H/.(#(r! .<a,@8 */, /)) li7i,8 ar( ,<i*:8 li0( Di+
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%4
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 / 8(( Di+ / +/ Y Di+ / i*#(8,i:a,( Y(8$ N/$
2 Di+ / 8(( Di+ / 8(( Y i* 9/**(9,i/* .i,< ,<a, ./r0
3 N/.! ,<( i*,(r#i(.! ,<i8 i8 */. ,<( F/r(8 i*,(r#i(.
" .( ,al0(+ a/, ,<a, /* Fri+a! a*+ ,<a, i8 <(ar8a! a*+ I
5 +/*@, ,<i*0 ,<(r(@8 79< /) a +(a,( a/, ,<( 9/*,(*, /) i,
6 (i*: <(ar8a$ W<(,<(r /r */, ,<i8 >ar,i9lar .i,*(88 (li(#(+
i, 8/*+(+ li0( ,<( 7a* /* ,<( 7//*! i, +/(8*@, 7a,,(r! /r ,<a,
% <( (li(#(+ i, 8/*+(+ li0( Kar>(l(8 +/(8*@, 7a,,(r (9a8(
,<a,@8 <i8 8(9,i#( (li()$
14 N/.! i* ,(r78 /) ,<( /))(r! ,<( /))(r ,/ >r/#i+(! ,<i8
11 i8 ,<( Kar>(l(8 /))(r! ,<r/:< <i8 la.(r ,<r/:< a*/,<(r AUSA
12 (,9$ ,/ >r/#i+( la. (*)/r9(7(*, .i,< i*)/r7a,i/* a8 ,/ .</ ,<(
13 r(al D;R .a8 i8 al8/ */, r(l(#a*,$ T<( /))(r i8 ,<( )a9, /)
1" ,<( /))(r$ T<a,@8 ,<( /*l >/i*, /) ,<a,! (9a8( .( 0*/. ,<a,
15 ,<(r( .a8 */ i*)/r7a,i/*$ W( 0*/. ,<a, Kar>(l(8 +i+ */,
16 >r/#i+(! a8(+ >/* ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 >r/))(r! <( *(#(r >r/#i+(+
1 ,<a, i*)/r7a,i/*$ S/ i,@8 */, a8 i) ,<(r(@8 8/7( 8(9r(, *a7(
1% ,<a, 9/7(8 /,$ S/ ,<( )a9, /) ,<( /))(r i,8(l) i8 */,
1 r(l(#a*, ,/ a +i8>,(+ i88( /) )a9,$ I, i8 */, a +i8>,(+
24 i88( /) )a9, r(l(#a*, ,/ ,<i8 +()(*+a*,@8 9l>aili, .<(,<(r
21 /r */, a* /))(r .a8 7a+( 8/7(/+ (l8( ,/ >/,(*,iall
22 +i#l:( i*)/r7a,i/*$ A*+ i,@8 r(all a .a /)! I (li(#(!
23 :(,,i*: /, .<(,<(r /r */, Kar>(l(8 <a+ i*8i+( i*)/r7a,i/*
2" a/, Sil0 R/a+$ I) <( +i+! <( +i+! , ,<a,@8 a 8(>ara,(
25 (8,i/* )r/7 .<(,<(r /r */, R/88 Ulri9<, 9a* ( ,i(+ <i78(l)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%1
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 ,<r/:< 9/7>(,(*, (#i+(*9( ,/ Sil0 R/a+ i* ,<( 7a**(r ,<(
2 :/#(r*7(*, <a8 ((* 8::(8,i*:$
3 I* ,(r78 /) ,<( %4 a*+ .<(,<(r /r */, ,<a, :(,8 /#(r
" <(ar8a! )ir8, /) all! I )i*+ ,<a, ,<( )a9, /) a* /))(r >/*
5 a*al8i8 a*+ ,a0i*: i, a>ar, a8 ,/ .<a, (a9< 8(:7(*, i8 )/r i8
6 irr(l(#a*,! , i8 i, >r/a,i#( I8 i, 7/r( >r/a,i#( ,<a*
a*,<i*: (l8( ,<a, 9a* ( /))(r(+ T<( a*8.(r i8 */$ I,@8
% r(all i*#i,i*: ,<( r ,/ 8>(9la,($ A*+ ,<( /,<(r i88( i8
,<a, Kar>(l(8 .a8 8(l)-i*,(r(8,(+ i* 7a0i*: a* /))(r a, ,<(
14 ,i7( a*+! ,<(r()/r(! i,@8 *9l(ar .<(,<(r <( a9,all <a+ a*
11 i*)/r7a,i/*$ S/ ,<( )a9, /) ,<( /))(r i8 8::(8,i#( /) a )a9,
12 /) r(al a*+ >/,(*,iall i*)(r(*,iall r(lial( i*)/r7a,i/* a*+
13 Kar>(l(8 -- ,<(r(@8 */ i*+i9a,i/* ,<a, <( ./l+ <a#( >r/#i+(+
1" ,<a,$
15 N/.! .<a, ./l+ ( /0a A* 9<a,8 /* ,<( .(8i,(
16 ,<a, D;R .a8 <a*+i*: /)) ,<( .(8i,( /r ,<a, r$ Ulri9<,!
1 +ri*: ,<( ,i7( ,<a, <( .a8 i* 9<ar:( /) Sil0 R/a+ <i8 /.*
1% a+7i88i/* /r <i8 9/*8(l@8 a88(r,i/*! .a8 <a*+i*: /)) ,<(
1 .(8i,( (#i+(*9( a8 ,/ .<(,<(r /r */,! )/r i*8,a*9(! R/88
24 Ulri9<,! .<(* <( .a8 (i*: #i(.(+ la. (*)/r9(7(*, a*+ ,<(
21 .(r( ,aili*: <i7! .<i9< ,<i8 i*)/r7a,i/* <a8 8/7( i*)/r7a,i/*
22 a/,! <( 7a <a#( li7i,(+ i*)/r7a,i/*! , .<(,<(r /r */, R/88
23 Ulri9<, .a8 :/i*: ,/ ./r0! )/r i*8,a*9($ Wa8 <( :/i*: ,/ a*
2" /))i9(! .a8 <( +/i*: 8/7(,<i*: (l8(! +/(8 <( ())(9,i#(l <a#(
25 a* alii +()(*8( Ar( ,<(r( r(#i(.8 /) a*0 a99/*,8 ,<a,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 21/178
5%2
F1KGULB1 Trial
1 r(#(al i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, i*+i9a,( >ar/ll 9/7i*: i* )r/7 a ,<ir+
2 >ar, I8 ,<(r( (#i+(*9( ,<a, a*/,<(r a99/*, .a8 r(9(i#i*:
3 Sil0 R/a+ 9/77i88i/*8 l//0i*: a, ,<( a99/*, *7(r8 a*+
" ,ra9i*: ,<( *7(r8 ,<r/:<
5 H( 9a* 9<all(*:( ,<( r(9/ll(9,i/* /) ,<( .(8i,(!
6 9<all(*:( ,<( 8! 9<all(*:( ,<( )a9,8 r(la,i*: ,/ ,<( arr(8,$
H( 9a* al8/ 8((0 ,/ i*,r/+9( (#i+(*9( ,<a, /,<(r8 .(r( ,i(+ ,/
% ,<( 8(r#(r8 ,<a, ,<(r( .(r( /,<(r i*+i#i+al8 .</ .(r( l(a8i*:
,<( 8(r#(r8 ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8 /r 8/7(/+ (l8( .a8 l(a8i*:
14 ,<( 8(r#(r8 ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8 +i+ a* *7(r /) ,<i*:8! ! Y!
11 = ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8 <a+ a .(8i,( i) <(@8 al( ,/ 8</. i,
12 ,<r/:< a .i,*(88 .i,< 9/7>(,(*, ,(9<*i9al (#i+(*9( ,<a, ,<(
13 .(8i,( <a+ 9(r,ai* a8>(9,8 /) i,8 >la,)/r7 ,<a, .(r(
1" r(>li9a,(+ i* ,<( >la,)/r7 /) Sil0 R/a+! ,<a, ./l+ ( )air
15 :a7($ T<(r( ar( /,<(r (8,i/*8 .<i9< .(r( a80(+ .<i9< .(r(
16 )airl a80(+! .<i9< i8! .a8 ar0 Kar>(l(8 r**i*: ,G/x
1 T<a,@8 >(r)(9,l a>>r/>ria,($ a* /) ,<( (8,i/*8 ,<a,
1% r$ Dra,(l a80(+ .(r( a8/l,(l a>>r/>ria,( a*+ ar( 8>>/r,i#(
1 /) ,<( +()(*8( ,<(/r$ T<( (8,i/*8 ,<a, .(r( */, a>>r/>ria,(
24 .(r( ,<( /*(8 ,<a, 8,ra(+ i*,/ ,<( ./r+8 (li() a*+
21 9/*9l8i/*! , .<(r( ,<( .(r( 8i7>l a80i*: a/, )a9,8!
22 ,<( ar( >(r)(9,l a>>r/>ria,($
23 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%3
F10+l2
1 THE COURT S/ .<a, .(@ll <a#( ,/ +/ -- a*+ ,<a,@8 ,<(
2 C/r,@8 rli*: /* ,<i8$ 9< /) .<a,! a8 a r(8l,! ,<(
3 +()(*+a*, .a*,(+ ,/ :/ i*,/ i* ,(r78 /) (x>l/ri*: ,<( 8(ar9<
" .arra*, a>>li9a,i/* i8 /)) li7i,8! (9a8( ,<( #(r (8,i/*
5 ,<a, .a8 ,/ ( a80(+! .<i9< i8 .<a, ar( ,<( )/r 8/r9(8 /)
6 i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, / <a+! ! Y! =! a*+ ,<(*! a8(+ /* ,<a,!
.<a, +i+ / +/ *(x,$ N/. <a#i*: r(#i(.(+ ,<( 9a8(8 -- a*+
% ,<( 8((7 ,/ ( 9l(ar i* ,<i8 r(:ar+ -- 8/ l/*: a8 <( i8 al(
,/ >r(8(*, ,<( .i,*(88 -- ,<( +()(*+a*, i8 al( ,/ >r(8(*,
14 +ir(9, (#i+(*9( /) <i8 /.* +()(*8( /) a*/,<(r >(r>(,ra,/r!
11 :(,,i*: ,<( 8>(9la,i/* /) a ,<ir+ >ar,! (#(* ,<(
12 i*#(8,i:a,/r! i8 a* i7>r/>(r .a ,/ >r/9((+$
13 S/ ,</8( (8,i/*8! i* ,<a, .a! ar( /)) li7i,8$ B,
1" ,<( /,<(r (8,i/*8 /) +ir(9, (#i+(*9( ,<r/:< ,<i8 .i,*(88!
15 .</ <a+ a l/, ,/ +/ .i,< ,<( Sil0 R/a+ .(8i,(! 8/ i) <(
16 <a>>(*(+ ,/ l//0 a, all ,<( 9<a,8 a*+ l//0(+ a, all ,<( 9<a,8
1 /) D;R a*+/r a* a99/*, a88/9ia,(+ .i,< ,<i8 .i,*(88! <( 9a*
1% ( 9r/88(+ /* .<(,<(r /r */, ,<(r( i8 9l(ar (#i+(*9( /) a
1 <a*+/))$ A*+ ,<( r .ill ,<(* ( :i#(* ,<( />>/r,*i, ,/
24 +ra. i,8 i*)(r(*9( a8 ,/ .<(,<(r ,<(r( .a8 /r .a8 */, a
21 <a*+/))$ T<i8 .i,*(88 9a**/, 8a .<(,<(r ,<(r( .a8 /r .a8 */,
22 a <a*+/))! , <( 9/l+ 9(r,ai*l >r(8(*, (#i+(*9( i* ,<a,
23 r(:ar+ ,<(r( i8 */ +/, a/, ,<a,$
2" W<a, .( 8</l+ +/! I ,<i*0! i8 ,<(r( ar( 8/7(
25 (8,i/*8$ I@#( :/, a .</l( *9< /) ,<(7 ,<a, ar( )la::(+
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
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5%"
F10+l2
1 <(r($ I a7 <a>> ,/ <a*+ /#(r 7 9/> /) ,<( ,ra*89ri>, ,/
2 9/*8(l )/r (#(r/+ ,/ r(#i(.$ Y/ *((+ ,/ )i:r( /,! ,/
3 ,<( (x,(*, a*/+ .a*,8 ,/ :/ a90 /* 9(r,ai* J a*+ A@8 a*+ ,/
" ,<( (li() (8,i/*8 a*+ ,<( 9/*9l8i/* (8,i/*8! .<i9<
5 .(r( all/.(+ ,/ :/! I +/*@, .a*, ,/ 8, +/ a :l/al 8,ri0(
6 (9a8( 7a* /) ,<( (8,i/*8 .(r( )i*($ S/ ,<( (8,i/* i8
:/i*: ,/ ( .<i9< /*(8 +/ / .a*, ,/ 8,ri0( a*+ +/(8 ,<(
% :/#(r*7(*, <a#( a #i(. a8 ,/ </. ,/ +/ ,<i8 .i,</, 9r(a,i*:
7/r( >r/l(78
14 S/ I@7 */, :/i*: ,/ +/ i, .<(* ,<( r )ir8, 9/7(8
11 /,$ I .ill ,a0( i, > a, a*/,<(r ,i7($ A*+ I ./l+ li0( i,
12 ,/ ( #(r 8>(9i)i9 a*+ <a#( / )/l08 9/*)(r /* i,$ B, .<(*
13 I )la::(+ ,<i*:8! I )la::(+ ,<i*:8 .<i9< I ,<i*0 ar( al8/
1" a>>r/>ria,($ Y/ .ill 8((! a8(+ >/* .<a, I 8, 8ai+! .<a,
15 .ill 7> /, a8 / a8 */(9,(+-,/ (8,i/*8 ,<a,! a8(+
16 >/* ,<( C/r,@8 r(#i(. /) all ,<( 9a8( la.! I */. (li(#(
1 ./l+ <a#( <a+ a>>r/>ria,( /(9,i/*8 88,ai*(+ , ,<( .(r(
1% l(, :/$ S/ l(,@8 ,a0( i, 8,(>--8,(> (9a8( I +/*@, .a*, ,/
1 (li7i*a,( ,<i*:8 .<i9< ,<( +()(*+a*, (li9i,(+ )airl! a*+ .(
24 <a#( ,/ ( 9ar()l a8 .( >r/9((+ */. ,<a, .( +/ <a#( a li#(
21 /(9,i/*$
22 All ri:<,$ r$ Dra,(l! I 0*/. / +/*@, a:r(( .i,< 7
23 rli*:! , +/ / *+(r8,a*+ ,<( >ara7(,(r8 ,<a, I <a#( 8(,
2" R$ DRATEL I ,<i*0 8/$ I <a#( ,/ 8a! ,</:<! ,<a,
25 .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ ,<( /))(r ,<( a,,/r*(! i, i8 */, a/, --
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%5
F10+l2
1 i, i8 */, a/, .<(,<(r <( a9,all <a+ i*)/r7a,i/*$ I, i8 ,<(
2 )a9, ,<a, 8/7(/*( .</ i8 *+(r i*#(8,i:a,i/* i8 /))(ri*: ,/
3 i7>li9a,( 8/7(/*( (l8( i* r(,r* )/r i77*i, )r/7 all 9<ar:(8
" ,<a, ,<( :/#(r*7(*, 9/l+ ri*: a:ai*8, ,<(7 -- 7/*(!
5 8i*(88! /r .<a,(#(r$ A*+ al8/! .( +/*@, <a#( ,/ >r/#(
6 a*,<i*:! a*+ all ,<( 9a8(8 ar( */, a/, >r/#i*: --
THE COURT Y/ +/*@, <a#( ,/ >r/#( a*,<i*:$ B, i)
% / .a*, ,/ r(, 8/7(,<i*: ,<r/:< 9r/88-(xa7i*a,i/*! ,<(r(
ar( li7i,8$ T<i8 i8 >ar, /) .<a, 9/7(8 > i* ,<( 34 9a8(8
14 .<i9< / all 9i,(+ ,/ 7( a*+ 7 /.* r(8(ar9<$ Y/ 0*/.! /)
11 9/r8(! ,<(r( ar( li7i,8 ,/ 9r/88-(xa7i*a,i/* .<(* .( 8,ar, ,/
12 :(, ,// )ar a)i(l+$ B(9a8( ,<( *(x, (8,i/* .ill (! .(ll!
13 .<a, .a8 ,<( /,9/7( /) ,<( i*,(r#i(. A*+ ,<i8 i8 a .i,*(88
1" .</ +/(8*@, <a#( ,<a,$
15 R$ DRATEL T<i8 i8 <i8 /.* (8,i/* --
16 THE COURT N/$ N/$ N/$ T<( :/#(r*7(*, .ill <a#( ,/
1 ( al( ,/ :(, ,<a,$ A*+ i, i8 ,// )ar a)i(l+$ S/ / 9a*
1% 8</. ,<a, ,<(r( .a8 a*/,<(r >(r>(,ra,/r$ I a7 */ 7(a*8
1 )/r(9l/8i*: /r! / 0*/.! /r a,,(7>, ,/ il+ ,<a, +()(*8(
24 ,<(/r 8</.i*: ,<a, /r 9li(*,! /r .</7(#(r <a+ 9(r,ai*
21 8(r *a7(8! .<a,(#(r ,<( 8(r *a7(8 ar(! <a*+(+ /))
22 a+7i*i8,ra,i#( 9a>aili,i(8 ,/ 8/7(/+ (l8( ,/ ,a0( /#(r ,<a,
23 r/l( )/r 8/7( >(ri/+ /) ,i7($
2" R$ DRATEL B, ,<a, i8 */, ,<( 8,a*+ar+ i* ,<(8(
25 /,<(r 9a8(8! a*+ ,<( r(#(r8al8 a*+ Er9/l(! Al#ar( #$ Er9/l( i8
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%6
F10+l2
1 a >(r)(9, (xa7>l( a*+ --
2 THE COURT r$ Dra,(l! I <a#( r(a+ ,</8( 9a8(8! a*+ I
3 (li(#( ,<a, ,<( ar( 8ar(l +i8,i*:i8<al($ I 7(a* ,<(
" Er9/l( 9a8(! a8 / 0*/.! .a8 a #(r >ar,i9lar 0i*+ /) 9a8(
5 .<(r( */, /*l <a+ 8/7(/+ (l8( ((* i7>li9a,(+ , 8/7(/+
6 (l8( <a+ ((* (88(*,iall 8</.* ,/ ( li0(l ,/ ( ,<( :$
A*+ ,<( 8, +i+*@, -- ,<( <a+ ,<( *a7($ T<( <a+ ,<( ></*(
% *7(r! /r ,<( 9/*,a9, i*)/r7a,i/*$ I 9a*@, r(7(7(r </. i,
.a8$ A*+ ,<(* ,<( 8, )ail(+ ,/ )/ll/. >$ I, i8 +i))(r(*,$
14 R$ DRATEL B, i,@8 /*l +i))(r(*, a8 a 7a,,(r /)
11 +(:r(($ I) ,<( )ailr( ,/ -- i, .a8 ,<( r()8al ,/ >(r7i,
12 9r/88-(xa7i*a,i/* a8 ,/ ,<a, i88( .<i9< .a8 ,<( a8i8 )/r ,<(
13 r(#(r8al$ A*+ i, .a8 */, -- a*+ i, i8 */, a (8,i/* /) I <a#(
1" ,/ <a#( a ></,/:ra>< /) D;R a*+ i, i8 */, r$ Ulri9<,$ I 9a*
15 (8,ali8< i, i*)(r(*9($ A*+ 8, ,<( .a ,<( :/#(r*7(*, i8
16 (8,ali8<i*: i,8 9a8( i*)(r(*9($
1 THE COURT Y/ 9/l+ 9(r,ai*l (8,ali8< i,
1% i*)(r(*9(! , ,<a, i8 .< I .a*, ,/ +i))(r(*,ia,( (,.((*
1 /@#( :/, ,/ <a#( 8/7( i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, Kar>(l(8 i* )a9,
24 (i,<(r <a+ i*)/r7a,i/* /* D;R /r ,<a,@8 r(lial(! a*+/r i) /
21 ar( :/i*: ,/ il+ Kar>(l(8 > a8 -- i8 i, /r #i(. ,<a,
22 Kar>(l(8 .a8 */, ,<( r(al D;R! /r i8 i, /r #i(. ,<a, <( .a8
23 ,<( r(al D;R
2" R$ DRATEL #i(. i8 ,<a, <( 9/l+ ( ,<( r(al D;R$
25 THE COURT D/ / <a#( a* i*)/r7a,i/*! /,<(r .<a,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%
F10+l2
1 / r/:<, /, a*+ .<a, i8 i* ,<( 3544 7a,(rial! ,<a, / 9a*
2 >r/))(r ,<a, +ra.8 ,<( 9/**(9,i/* ,<a, ,<( Wa+( 9a8( a*+ ,<(
3 /,<(r 9ar(88 8a / <a#( ,/ <a#( ()/r( .( :/ /)) /* ,<i8
" r/a+
5 R$ DRATEL I 9a* +/ 9r/88-(xa7i*a,i/*$ I@7 */,
6 r(ir(+ ,/ <a#( a .i,*(88 .</ 9/7(8 > a*+ +/(8 ,<a,$ W( <a#(
/,<(r i*)/r7a,i/* a/, ,<( )a9, ,<a, ,<(r( ar( 7l,i>l( --
% 8, 8/ i, i8 9l(ar .<a, /r ,<(/r i8$ Or ,<(/r i8 ,<a,
r$ Ulri9<, 9r(a,(+ ,<( .(8i,(! :/, /, a 9/>l( /) 7/*,<
14 la,(r! +i+ */, 9/7( a90 i* a, a* >/i*, *,il ,<( #(r (*+!
11 .a8 */, i* a, ,<( #(r (*+$ H( .a8 */, i* a 9/*8>ira9! a*+ <(
12 .a8 */, />(ra,i*: ,<( .(8i,($ T<( )a9, ,<a, <( <a+ -- .<a,
13 ,<( (#i+(*9( 8</.8 a/, .<a, .a8 /* <i8 la>,/>! )i*(! .( .ill
1" (x>lai*$
15 THE COURT OK$
16 R$ DRATEL B, --
1 THE COURT All /) ,<a,! /) 9/r8(! / ar( .(l9/7( ,/
1% (x>lai*! a*+ / ar( 9(r,ai*l .(l9/7( ,/ 9r/88-(xa7i*( ,<i8
1 .i,*(88$ I@ll ,(ll /$ I )((l #(r 9/7)/r,al( i* a
24 9ar()l -- a*+ .i,< ,<( Er9/l( 9a8(! i, i8 a 241" 9a8($ I, i8
21 a* *8al 9a8( (9a8( i, i8 a r(#(r8al /) a 8,a,( 9/r, 9a8($
22 T<(r( i8 a r(7a*+ /* <a(a8$ I r(a+ i, a 9/>l( /) ,i7(8$ B,
23 I@7 9/7)/r,al($ I@#( al8/ r(a+ ,<( Kil( #$ W<i,( 9a8( 7/r(
2" ,<a* /*9( i* ,<( 9/*,(x, /) ,<i8 a*+ /,<(r 9a8(8$ I@7
25 9/7)/r,al( .i,< 7 rli*:$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%%
F10+l2
1 (8,i/* ,/ / ri:<, */.! 8/ .( 9a* :(, :/i*:! i8
2 +/ / *+(r8,a*+ ,<( >ara7(,(r8 /) .<a, / 9a* a80
3 R$ DRATEL I ,<i*0 8/$ B, I 8, *((+ ,/ 9/7>l(,(
" ,<( r(9/r+ 8, ,/ >r(8(r#( i,! (9a8( .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ Kl(8
5 #$ W<i,l(! ,<( S>r(7( C/r, 9a8(! B(a*! ,<( all(:(+
6 al,(r*a,i#( >(r>(,ra,/r! ,<( +i+*@, <a#( >r//)$ T<( +i+ i,
all ,<r/:< ,<( >/li9( i*#(8,i:a,i/*$ T<( +i+*@, <a#(
% a++i,i/*al .i,*(88(8$ T<( <a+ ,<( >/li9($
A*+ ,<i8 i8 9/7i*(+ .i,< ,<( >/li9( i*#(8,i:a,i/*
14 i88($ T<( ar( i*(x,ri9al( i* 7a* r(8>(9,8! a*+ i, i8 */,
11 a/, -- i, i8 */, 8, a/, .<(,<(r i, .a8 8</++ , i, i8
12 a/, /,<(r ,<i*:8 ,<a, I@ll :(, i*,/ /* 9r/88 .i,< ,<i8
13 .i,*(88 ,<a, I +/*@, ,<i*0 ar( /(9,i/*al( a, all (9a8(
1" ,<( :/ ,/ 7/,i#a,i/*8 a*+ /,<(r ,<i*:8 i* ,(r78 /) ,<(
15 i*#(8,i:a,i/*$ S/ ,<a,@8 all >ar, /) ,<( 8a7( >i(9($ A*+ I
16 9a* il+ ,<a, i*)(r(*9($ I a7 >(r7i,,(+ ,/ +/ ,<a,
1 9r/88 a*+ i*)(r(*9($
1% THE COURT Y/ ar( >(r7i,,(+ ,/ +/ ,<a, ,<r/:<
1 9/7>(,(*9( (#i+(*9( ,<r/:< 9r/88 a*+ ,<r/:< i*)(r(*9($ T<(
24 (8,i/* i8 :/i*: ,/ ( .<a, i8 a>>r/>ria,( )/r ,<i8 .i,*(88 ,/
21 8>(a0 ,/! a*+ i, .ill ( ,<i*:8 ,<a, <( >(r9(i#(+ .i,< /*( /)
22 <i8 8(*8(8! a8 .i,*(88(8 +/! a8 />>/8(+ ,/ .<a, <( 7a <a#(
23 <(l+ a8 a (li() a, /*( >/i*, i* ,i7($
2" R$ DRATEL I *+(r8,a*+ ,<a, >ar,$
25 THE COURT I a7 */, :/i*: ,/ l(, ,<(7 a80 +i+ /
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%
F10+l2
1 (li(#( Ulri9<, +i+ i,! ,(ll 7($ A*+ ,<(*! (8! ,<( .a!
2 ,(ll 7( ,<( 2 r(a8/*8 .<$ T<a, ./l+ ( --
3 R$ DRATEL T<a, ./l+ ( <i8 +ir(9,$
" THE COURT T<a, ./l+ ( <i8 r(+ir(9,$
5 R$ DRATEL I a7 8ai*: ,<a, ./l+ ( <i8 +ir(9,$
6 THE COURT N/$ W(ll! / ar( ,al0i*: a/, ,</8( ar(
i*)(r(*9(8 #(r88 <i8 9/*9l8i/*8$
% All ri:<,$ S/ i) / <a#( a* (8,i/*8 a/, a
>ar,i9lar i88( ,<a, / .a*, ,/ rai8( ,<a, I a7 */, l(,,i*:
14 / rai8(! ,<(* >r(8(*, i, ,/ 7(! , /,<(r.i8( .(@ll >r/9((+
11 .i,< ,<i8$ I@7 */, ri:<, */. 8,ri0i*: a* /) ,<( ,(8,i7/*
12 ,<a, 9a7( i*$ Fra*0l! a <:( a7/*, 9a7( i* /* T<r8+a$ I,
13 .ill ( > ,/ r(all ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 r+(* ,/ )i:r( /, .<a,
1" >/r,i/*8 ,<( (li(#( ar( a>>r/>ria,(l 8,r90 a*+ ,<(* ,/
15 +i8988 .<(,<(r ,<( +()(*8( a:r((8 */, a8 ,/ .<(,<(r /r */,
16 ,<( a:r(( .i,< ,<( (#i+(*,iar rli*: , :i#(* ,<( C/r,@8
1 >ara7(,(r8! a*+ i) ,<( +()(*8( +/(8 */, a:r(( .i,< a* /) i,!
1% ,<(* I .ill 8, 7a0( a rli*:$
1 R$ DRATEL T<(r( i8 al8/ a .ai#(r a8>(9, /) i,$
24 THE COURT T<(r( i8 a .ai#(r a8>(9, /) i,$ W(
21 <a#(*@, ,al0(+ a/, ,<a, /r ri()(+ i,$ T<a, i8 .< I +/*@,
22 .a*, ,/ +/ ,<a, ri:<, */.$ I, i8 9/7>li9a,(+ (9a8( i, i8
23 i*,(r8>(r8(+$ T<(r( ar( 9/7>l(,(l */(9,i/*al( >i(9(8
2" i*,(r8>(r8(+ .i,< /(9,i/*al($ Y/ .ill ( al( ,/ 8a
25 Kar>(l(8 .a8 /, ,<(r($ H( <a+ ,<( 9/7>,(r (x>(r,i8($ H(
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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54
F10+l2
1 /.*8 ,$ G/x$ T<(r( ar( :/i*: ,/ ( 9(r,ai* ,<i*:8 ,<a, ar(
2 8,ill :/i*: ,/ (! I (li(#(! i* ,<( r(9/r+$ W(@ll <a#( ,/
3 ,a0( a l//0 a, </. ,<( J a*+ A@8 9/7( /, l,i7a,(l! , ,<(r(
" .ill ( )a9,8$
5 All ri:<,$ L(,@8 ,a0( > ,<( ,./ 8i+(ar i88(8$
6 r$ Tr*(r$
R$ TURNER Y/r H/*/r! I 8, .a*,(+ ,/ 7a0( 9l(ar$
% I* ,(r78 /) -- .( 9a* l//0 a, ,<( ,ra*89ri>, a*+ 9/7(
> .i,< >r/>/8(+ ar(a8 ,/ 8,ri0($ I 8, .a*, ,/ ( al( ,/ +/
14 ,<a, ()/r( r(+ir(9,! (9a8( i) 9(r,ai* ,(8,i7/* i8 */,
11 8,ri90(*! ,<(* .( ./l+ .a*, ,/ >/,(*,iall r(+ir(9, ,<(
12 .i,*(88 a 9(r,ai* .a ,/ 9r( ,(8,i7/* ,<a, +i+ 9/7( i*$
13 THE COURT Ca* / <a#( 8/7( /) /r 9/ll(a:(8 <(l>
1" / .i,< <i:<li:<,i*: .<a, / ,<i*0
15 R$ TURNER Y(8! /r H/*/r$
16 THE COURT A*+ a8 li,,l( a8 >/88il($
1 R$ TURNER Y(8! /r H/*/r$
1% THE COURT I 7(a*! ,<(r( i8 /*( .a /) +/i*: i, .<i9<
1 i8! la+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! / <(ar+ ,<( .i,*(88 ,al0i*: a/,
24 <i8 (li() a*+ #i(.8 a*+ 88>i9i/*8 a/, a* i*+i#i+al$ Y/
21 8</l+ +i8r(:ar+ ,</8( 9/77(*,8 (9a8( <i8 (li()8 a*+ #i(.8
22 a*+ 88>i9i/*8 ar( */, r(l(#a*,$ I, .ill ( )/r / ,/ +(9i+($
23 Y/ ar( :/i*: ,/ ( >r(8(*,(+ .i,< ,<( (#i+(*9( <(r( a8 ,/ ,<i8
2" +()(*+a*, a*+ a*,<i*: (l8( ,<a,@8 i7>/r,a*, )/r / ,/
25 9/*8i+(r! a*+ / 9a* +(9i+( .<(,<(r /r */, ,<a, i8 8))i9i(*,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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51
F10+l2
1 ,/ +ra. ,</8( 9/*9l8i/*8 /r8(l)$
2 T<a, ./l+ ( /*( .a /) +/i*: i,$ A*+ ,<(* .( ./l+
3 <a#( ,/! )/r >r>/8(8 /) la,(r /*! +(,(r7i*( i) .( <a#(
" (8,i/*8 la,(r )/r ,<( r ,/ <a#( r(a+ a90! .<(,<(r /r */,
5 8/7( /) ,</8( >i(9(8 ar( ,<(* (x9i8(+$
6 R$ TURNER OK$ S/ .(@ll ,a0( a l//0 -- .(@ll <a#(
8/7(/+ /* /r ,(a7 ,a0( a l//0 a, ,<a, a*+ 8(( i) .( 9a*
% /))(r 8>(9i)i9 ,(8,i7/* ,/ (x9i8( ()/r( r(+ir(9,$
THE COURT All ri:<,$ I) I *+(r8,a*+ i,! ,<(r( ar(
14 ,./ 7a,,(r8 a, ,<( 8i+(ar
11 R$ TURNER Y(8! /r H/*/r$
12 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
13
1"
15
16
1
1%
1
24
21
22
23
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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52
F10+l2
1 &A, ,<( 8i+(ar'
2 THE COURT All ri:<,$
3 R$ TURNER O*( i8 8i7>l($ O*( i8 7/r( 9/7>li9a,(+$
" T<( 8i7>l( /*( i8 i) 7 a90 i8 ,r*(+ --
5 &I* />(* 9/r,'
6 THE COURT Y/ 0*/.! I@7 8/rr! 9/l+ / -- i, i8 OK
)/r / )/l08 ,/ ,al0! , 9/l+ / ,al0 /,8i+( (9a8(!
% a9,all! .( <a#( a <ar+ ,i7( <(ari*: (9a8( .( .<i8>(r >
<(r(! /r .<i8>(r l/.(r 8/ .( 9a* <(ar .<a, .( ar( 8ai*: <(r($
14 &A, ,<( 8i+(ar'
11 R$ TURNER S/ .<il( 9/*8(l@8 a90 i8 ,r*(+ a8 ,<(
12 9a8( i8 :/i*: )/r.ar+! I <a#( <(ar+ )r/7 7l,i>l( >(/>l( /* 7
13 ,(a7 */. a*+ 7l,i>l( >(/>l( i* ,<( a+i(*9( ,<a, /),(* +ri*:
1" 8i+(ar8 ,<( +()(*+a*, i8 ,r*i*:! 7a0i*: 9/*,a9, .i,< <i8
15 )a7il a*+ 8>(a0i*: ,/ <i8 )a7il i* a .a ,<a, 7l,i>l( >(/>l(
16 <a#( ,/l+ 7( 8((78 :(ar(+ ,/.ar+ :(*(ra,i*: 87>a,<$ S/ I
1 ./l+ a80 ,<a, a* 89< 9/77*i9a,i/*8 ( /,8i+( ,<( >r(8(*9(
1% /) ,<( r$
1 THE COURT Ca* / 8>(a0 ,/ /r 9li(*,
24 R$ DRATEL OK$ I 7(a*! / 0*/.! /#i/8l <i8
21 )a7il i8 <(r($ T<( ar( 8(+ ,/ #i8i,i*: <i7 /* a r(:lar
22 a8i8 a*+ ,<( ar( */, :/i*: ,/ ( al( ,/ #i8i, <i7 +ri*:
23 ,rial (9a8( <( i8 <(r($
2" S$ LEWIS B(9a8( /) <i8 7/#( ,<( ar( */, al( ,/
25 #i8i, <i7 a, all ri:<, */.$ T<( 8, :/, ,<a, >a>(r./r0$ I,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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53
F10+l2
1 7a ( .((08 ()/r( ,<( 8(( <i7! i*9l+i*: <i8 8i8,(r .</ i8
2 i* )r/7 A8,ralia$ T<i8 7a ( <i8 /*l 9<a*9( ,/ <a#( 9/*,a9,
3 .i,< <(r$
" THE COURT OK$ I a7 */, 9/*9(r*(+ a/,! 8/ l/*: a8
5 ,<(r( i8 */ i*a>>r/>ria,( 9/77*i9a,i/* .i,< <i7! 8, ,r*i*:
6 a*+ 8ai*: Hi! 7/7 a, 8/7( >/i*, .<(* ,<( r i8 */, i* ,<(
r//7! (9a8( ,<(r( ar( l/,8 /) ,i7(8 -- */.! )/r i*8,a*9( --
% .<(* ,<( r i8 */, i* ,<( r//7$ B, .<(* ,<( r i8 i* ,<(
r//7! <( 8</l+ 8, 9/*,i*( l//0i*: )/r.ar+$
14 B ,<( .a! .( ar( :/i*: ,/ 7/#( ,<( -- .( +i+ 7/#(
11 ,<( 7/*i,/r$ T(rri)i9$
12 S/ / .ill ,(ll <i7$
13 R$ DRATEL I .ill$
1" &;a:(8 5" ,<r/:< 61" 8(al(+ /r+(r /) ,<( C/r,'
15 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
16
1
1%
1
24
21
22
23
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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615
F10+l2
1 &I* />(* 9/r,'
2 THE COURT W(@r( :/i*: ,/ :/ *,il 1 /@9l/90! a8
3 />>/8(+ ,/ 12"5$ B(9a8( /) ,<( )a9, ,<a, ,<( r <a+ ,/ (
" .ai,i*: ar/*+! I <a#( <a+ /( /r+(r l*9< )/r ,<( r ,/ (
5 r/:<, i* 8/r, /) a* a,,(7>, ,/ +/ 8/7(,<i*: )/r ,<(7$ B,
6 .(@ll :/ ri:<, @,il 1 /@9l/90$ A, 1 /@9l/90 I <a#( a
8(*,(*9i*: i* <(r($ I, i8 a *ar9/,i98 9a8($ A*+ 8/ I .ill
% *((+ ,/ <a#( 8>a9(! >r/al a9,all /* ,<i8 8i+( (9a8( i,
.ill ( 8/7(/+ .</ <a8 a 7ar8<al ,<(r($ ;(/>l( ar( .(l9/7(
14 ,/ 8,a )/r ,<a, , I .ill *((+ r//7 /* ,<( ,al(8$
11 G/ a<(a+ a*+ ri*: i* ,<( r! /($ O<! ,<( .i,*(88$
12 I8 ,<( .i,*(88 9/7i*:
13 THE CLERK Y(8$
1" &;a8('
15 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
16
1
1%
1
24
21
22
23
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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616
F10+l2
1 THE CLERK All ri8( a8 ,<( r (*,(r8$
2 &r >r(8(*,'
3 THE COURT All ri:<,$ La+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! l(,@8
" all ( 8(a,(+$
5 A*+ I .a*, ,/ a>/l/:i( )/r /r la,( 8,ar, ,/+a$ A
6 9/>l( /) +i))(r(*, ,<i*:8 r(8l, )r/7 ,<a,$ W( +/ <a#( l*9<
9/7i*: i* )/r / )/l08$ W( .ill :/ ,/ 1 /@9l/90 a*+ ,<(*
% .(@ll 8,/> )/r /r l*9< r(a0$ I +/ a>/l/:i($ W( ,r */, ,/
<a#( ,<(8( 0i*+8 /) ,<i*:8 ,a0( > /r ,i7(! a*+ .(@ll ,r ,/
14 8( /r ,i7( a8 ())i9i(*,l a8 .( 9a*$ W( ./l+*@, <a#( <a+
11 ,<a, +(la *l(88 i, .a8 *(9(88ar! a*+ I +/ a>/l/:i($
12 I .a*, ,/ r(7i*+ /! 8ir! r$ D(r-Y(:<iaa*! ,<a, /
13 ar( 8,ill *+(r /a,<$
1" THE WITNESS OK$
15 ARED DER-YEGHIAYAN!
16 R(87(+! a*+ ,(8,i)i(+ )r,<(r a8 )/ll/.8
1 THE COURT r$ Dra,(l! / 7a >r/9((+! 8ir$
1% R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /! /r H/*/r$
1 THE COURT O<! /*( ,<i*:$ I <a+ a */,( ,/ 78(l)$
24 La+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! )r/7 ,i7( ,/ ,i7( i* +/97(*,8
21 / 8(( r(+a9,i/*8! .<i9< ar( 8, 8/r, /) la90 7ar08 ,<r/:<
22 +/97(*,8$ T<a, i8 8, (9a8( 9(r,ai* i*)/r7a,i/* i8
23 irr(l(#a*,! a*+ 8/ 8, +/*@, (#(* ,<i*0 a/, i,$ 8, 8/r,
2" /) i:*/r( i,$
25 ;r/9((+$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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61
F10+l2
1 R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /$
2 CROSS-EAINATION &R(87(+'
3 BY R$ DRATEL
" J$ G//+ a),(r*//*! A:(*, D(r-Y(:<iaa*$
5 A$ G//+ a),(r*//*$
6 J$ Ha#( / (#(r <(ar+ /) 8/7(/*( .i,< a 8(r*a7( i*li:<,/)
A$ I <a#($
% J$ A*+ <a#( / (#(r i+(*,i)i(+ ,<a, >(r8/*
A$ N/! I +i+ */,$
14 J$ A*+ ,<a, .a8 a >(r8/* / .(r( l//0i*: a, a, 8/7( >/i*, a8
11 D;R! ri:<,
12 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/r7$
13 THE COURT S8,ai*(+$
1" J$ A*+ .( ,al0(+ ,<( /,<(r +a a/, >(a9(l/#(<ar7/*!
15 8/7(/*( .i,< ,<a, 8(r*a7(! ri:<,
16 A$ Y(8$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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61%
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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61
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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624
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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621
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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622
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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623
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62"
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626
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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23 R$ TURNER I <a#( 8(#(ral /(9,i/*8! )ir8, ,<(
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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634
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2 +/97(*,$
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6 ,a0( a i90 l//0$
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16 THE COURT A*+ / ,//0 i, /* /r a/, A:8, 2 a,
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24 .<a, a>>(ar(+ /* ,<a, >a:( a, ,<( ,i7( / ,//0 i,
21 THE WITNESS I, i8$
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23 9/*,(*, /) ,<( 7(88a:(8 ,<(78(l#(8 ar( */, i* )/r ,<( ,r,<!
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25 R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /! /r H/*/r$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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631
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1 &D()(*+a*,@8 Ex<ii, F r(9(i#(+ i* (#i+(*9('
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15 A$ I (li(#( ,<(r( .(r( ,i7(8 ,<a, <( -- /,<(r >(/>l( .(r(*@,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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632
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 9/rr(9,
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" ,<(* .(@ll ,a0( i, /*( /*(! (9a8( i) <( 8a. .i,< <i8 /.*
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R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /! /r H/*/r$
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1" THE COURT Dri*: ,<( 9/r8( /) ,<( ,i7( ,<a, /
15 .(r( 8i*: ,<( Sil0 R/a+ .(8i,(! +i+ / (9/7( a.ar( /)
16 /,<(r8 .</ a, l(a8, i*+i9a,(+ ,<a, ,<( <a+ 7(88a:(8 ,<a, <a+
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1% THE WITNESS T<(r( .(r( ,i7(8 ,<a, ,<(r( .(r( >/8,8
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22 */, / 9/l+ #ali+a,( ,<a, >ar,i9lar 7(88a:( /* /r /.*
23 THE WITNESS I +i+ */,$
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25 ,<( 9a8( ,<a, ,<( 9/l+*@, #ali+a,( i, /r i) ,<( .(r( 8,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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63"
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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635
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 I@7 8/rr$ O*( 8(9/*+$ I) .( 9a* (*lar:( ,<a, a li,,l( i,$
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THE COURT G 131$
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11 THE WITNESS Y(8! I (li(#( 8/$
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25 ri:<,
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636
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 A$ Y(8$
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A$ Y(8$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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63
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT H/l+ /* /*( 8(9/*+$ S8,ai*(+$
2 Y/ 9a* 9/7( a90 a, i,$
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" a8(+ /* /r a*al8i8 /) ,<( l/90 9<ai* /) Sil0 R/a+ l//0i*:
5 )/r a99/*,8 ,<a, 9/l+ ( li*0(+ ,/ Sil0 R/a+! ,<a, Sil0 R/a+
6 <a+ 8>li, a 7ai* a99/*, i*,/ /,<(r a99/*,8
R$ TURNER O(9,i/* 8a7( /(9,i/*! )/r7$
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23 R$ DRATEL O0a$ W( 9a* 8,/> */.$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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63%
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63
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 &I* />(* 9/r, r */, >r(8(*,'
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16 )/r7la,i/* -- */.! ,<a, / 0*/.! r$ Dra,(l ,<( :/#(r*7(*, i8
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6"4
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 (8,i/* (9a8( i, .ill ,a0( l/*:(r 8/ / 7i:<, .a*, ,/ >i90
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" .a*,8 ,/ +/$
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6"1
F10:l3 Trial
1 AFTERNOON SESSION
2 24% >$7$
3 &I* />(* 9/r, r */, >r(8(*,'
" THE COURT W( ar( 8,ill .ai,i*: )/r /*( r/r$
5 A9,all! I <a#( /*( r 7a,,(r a*+ I .a*, ,/ +i8988 .i,< /
6 )/l08 </. ,/ +(al .i,< ,<( 8,r90 ,(8,i7/*$
O* ,<( r 7a,,(r! ,<(r(@8 /*( r/r .</ <a8 :/,
% a>>ar(*,l i88(8 .i,< <(r >la9( /) (7>l/7(*, .<i9< .ill
*/, -- ,<(ir HR >/li9 a*+ .<(,<(r /r */, .( 9a* /#(r9/7( ,<i8
14 i8 TBD! .(@r( :/i*: ,/ ,r ,/ /#(r9/7( ,<i8 -- i*+i9a,(8 ,<a,
11 ,<( 9a* <a#( ,./ .((08 >ai+ )/r r 8(r#i9( a*+ ,<(* a),(r
12 ,<a, i, <a8 ,/ 9/7( /, /) <(r #a9a,i/*$ A*+ ,<a, 7a /r 7a
13 */, >r(8(*, 9(r,ai* i88(8 )/r ,<i8 r/r$ S/ .(@r( ,ri*: ,/
1" +(,(r7i*( .<(,<(r /r */, <(r >la9( /) (7>l/7(*, ./l+ 8(( )i,
15 ,/ 7a0( a* (x9(>,i/* i* ,<a, 8<(@8 alr(a+ ((* i7>a*(ll(+ /* a
16 r! a*+ i,@8 */, :/i*: ,/ (*+ .i,<i* ,<( ,i7( )ra7( ,<a,
1 8<(@8 :/,$
1% I) ,<( 8a */! ,<(* .(@ll <a#( ,/ +(,(r7i*( </. .(
1 .a*, ,/ a>>r/a9< <(r a/, ,<a,$ I* +i8988i/*8 .i,< 9/*8(l!
24 ,<( C/r, .ill +i8988 ,<a, .i,< 9/*8(l! </. >(/>l( >r/>/8( .(
21 8</l+ >r/9((+ a*+ .<(,<(r /r */,! i) 8<( i8 #(r 9/*9(r*(+!
22 .<(,<(r /r */, /* ,<a, a8i8 .( +/ a*,<i*: a/, ,<a,!
23 i*9l+i*: r(>la9i*: <(r .i,< /*( /) ,<( al,(r*a,(8$ T<a,@8 ,/
2" ( +(,(r7i*(+$ I 8, .a*,(+ ,/ )la: )/r / ,<a, ,<a, i88(
25 <a8 9/7( > ,/+a$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 60/178
6"2
F10:l3 Trial
1 I <a#( r(9(i#(+ )r/7 ,<( :/#(r*7(*, a* (7ail ,<a, .a8
2 9/>i(+ ,/ 9/*8(l! all 9/*8(l! ,<a, <a8 ,<(ir >r/>/8al a8 ,/
3 (x9(r>,8 ,/ ( 8,ri90(* a8(+ >/* ,<( C/r,@8 >ri/r rli*:$
" r$ Dra,(l <a+ 7(*,i/*(+ ()/r( ,<a, ,<( C/r, <a+ */,
5 (, (*,(r,ai*(+ ar:7(*,8 a8 ,/ .ai#(r! a*+ ,<a, i8 9/rr(9,! /r
6 a* /,<(r ar:7(*,8 /,<(r ,<a* r(ar:i*: ,<( C/r,@8
(#i+(*,iar rli*:$ Al8/ I *((+ ,/ 0*/. </. 8//* .(@r( :/i*:
% ,/ <a#( ,/ +(al .i,< ,<i8 .<(* ,<( r(+ir(9, i8 li0(l ,/ (:i*$
r$ Dra,(l! l(,@8 ,a0( ,<( la8, (8,i/* )ir8,$ H/.
14 79< 7/r( /* 9r/88 +/ / <a#( /) r$ D(r-Y(:<iaa*
11 R$ DRATEL Wi,< ,<( (x9(>,i/* /) /*( (8,i/* ,<a,
12 I@ll a80 ,<( C/r,! .<i9< i8 .<(,<(r I@7 :/i*: ,/ :/ a, all
13 i*,/ ,<( 8(9/*+ >(r8/*! I@7 */, 8r( .<(,<(r I@7 all/.(+ ,/ :/
1" a, all i*,/ ,<( 8(9/*+ al,(r*a,i#( 88>(9,! .<(,<(r ,<a,@8
15 8/7(,<i*: --
16 THE COURT T<( 7ai* i88( ,<a, .( <a+ +(al, .i,< .a8
1 .i,< ,<( 7i8(8$/r: >i(9($
1% R$ DRATEL Ri:<,$
1 THE COURT I) ,<(r( ar( /,<(r a8>(9,8 /) i, ,<a, I@7
24 *a.ar( /)! .( 9a* ,a0( i, 8,(> 8,(> a*+ 8(($
21 R$ DRATEL S/! (,.((* a* </r! a* </r a*+-a-<al) I
22 :(88$
23 THE COURT S/ >r/al ,<(*! i,@8 li0(l ,/ ( a ,i7(
2" )/r r(a0! , +/ / .a*, ,/ */. >r(#i(. /r .ai#(r ar:7(*,
25 I ,<i*0 I *+(r8,a*+ 8, .i,< ,<( ./r+ .ai#(r >/88il ,<(
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 61/178
6"3
F10:l3 Trial
1 9/*,/r /) .<a, /@r( :(,,i*: a,! , I@+ li0( ,/ :i#( / a
2 9<a*9( ,/ 8,a,( i, )/r ,<( r(9/r+$ W( 9a* +/ i, a, ,<( r(a0
3 i) /@+ ra,<(r */, +/ i, ri:<, */.$
" R$ DRATEL I 9a* +/ i, a, ,<( r(a0 i* a .a
5 ,<a, -- ,<( .ai#(r i8 r(all ,<r(( >ar,8 O*( i8! ,<( +i+*@,
6 /(9,! a*+ / 9a*@, >, ,<a, :(*i( a90 ,<i8 ,<( /,,l( i*
a* r(8>(9,8$ T<( 8(9/*+ i8! ,<(@r( */, /(9,i/*al( i* 7a*
% r(8>(9,8 (#(* *+(r ,<( C/r,@8 rli*:$ A*+ ,<( ,<ir+ ./l+ (
,<a,! / 0*/.! i, 9<a*:(8 ,<( .</l( *a,r( /) </. a*
14 (xa7i*a,i/* >r/9((+8 a*+ ,<a,@8 /*( /) ,<( r(a8/*8 .< / <a#(
11 ,/ /(9, 9/*,(7>/ra*(/8l (9a8( ,<(* / 9a*@, :/ a90 a*+
12 r(9/*8,r9, i, i* a 7a**(r ,<a, ,<(* *+/(8 ,<i*:8 ,<a, /
13 9/l+ <a#( 9<a*:(+$
1" S/ all /) ,<a, i8 a )a9,/r i* ,<( .ai#(r ar:7(*, a*+
15 ,<( C/r, 8ai+ /* T<r8+a ,<a, i, .a8 /, ,<(r( alr(a+! 8/!
16 / 0*/.! --
1 THE COURT T<( )a9, ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8 (xi8,8 a8 a
1% >/,(*,ial i*+i#i+al a8 ,/ .</7 ,<(r( i8 8/7( (#i+(*9( ,<a,
1 >(/>l( 9a* +ra. i*)(r(*9(8 )r/7! ,<a, ./l+ */, ( :/*( )r/7
24 ,<( 9a8($ E#(* .i,< ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 8::(8,i/*8! ,<(r( i8
21 l/,8 /) (#i+(*9( i* ,(r78 /) (8,i/*8 ,<a, / a80(+ ,<a, .a8
22 >(r)(9,l a>>r/>ria,( i* ,<a, r(:ar+$
23 R$ DRATEL Y(8$ A*+ I ,<i*0 all a>>r/>ria,( i* ,<(
2" 9/*,(x, /) -- */, /*l i* ,<( 9/*,(x, /) al,(r*a,i#( 88>(9,!
25 , al8/ i* ,<( 9/*,(x, /) ,<( 9/*+9, /) ,<( i*#(8,i:a,i/*!
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 62/178
6""
F10:l3 Trial
1 (9a8( a, ,<( (*+ /) ,<( +a! .(@r( :/i*: ,/ <a#( a 9/7>ari8/*
2 .i,< ,<( i*#(8,i:a,i/* /) r$ Ulri9<, a*+ ,<( 9/*9l8i/*8 ,<a,
3 .(r( +ra.* a*+ ,<( i*#(8,i:a,i/*8 /) a, l(a8, ,./ /,<(r >(/>l(
" a*+ ,<( 9/*9l8i/* ,<a, .(r( +ra.*! a*+ a, ,<( (*+ /) ,<( +a!
5 ,<( /*l ,<i*: ,<a,@8 :/i*: ,/ ( a )a9,/r )/r ,<( :/#(r*7(*,
6 i8 8/7(,<i*: ,<a, */ /*( 9a* ,r8,$ T<a,@8 >ar, /) ,<( .</l(
+()(*8(! a*+ ,<a,@8 >ar, /) .<a, ,<(8( (8,i/*8 ar( a/,$
% A*+ i,@8 >(r)(9,l a>>r/>ria,( ,/ a80 a* a:(*, a*+ a
la. (*)/r9(7(*, /))i9(r a/, ,<( 9/*+9, /) <i8 i*#(8,i:a,i/*
14 a*+ </. i, >r/9((+(+ a*+ (#(* --
11 THE COURT I +/*@, .a*, ,/ r(ar:( ,<( (#i+(*9($
12 R$ DRATEL I 0*/.! I@7 8, 8ai*:! ,<( */,i/* ,<a,
13 */. ,<a, ,<(r(@8 */ .ai#(r .<(* ,<(8( ,<i*:8 9/7( i* a*+ i8
1" 8, -- I 7(a*! ,<(r( <a8 ,/ ( 8/7( */,i/* /) .ai#(r i* ,<(
15 9/*,(x, /) a ,rial i* ,<( 8(*8( /) .<a, i, 7(a*8 ,/ <a#( a
16 9/*,(7>/ra*(/8 /(9,i/* a*+ .<a, i, 7(a*8 */, ,/ <a#( a
1 9/*,(7>/ra*(/8 /(9,i/*$
1% THE COURT r$ Tr*(r$
1 R$ TURNER Y/r H/*/r! ,<( ,rial <a8 :/*( )a8,$ Y/
24 .i8< / <a+ all ,<( la. a, /r )i*:(r,i>8$ I ,<i*0 ,<( C/r,
21 .a8 i*9li*(+ ,/ ,<i*0 a l/, /) ,<( ,(8,i7/* .a8 a+7i88il(!
22 .<i9< a),(r )r,<(r r(#i(. i8 */. 9l(arl i*a+7i88il($
23 I,@8 */, ,// la,( )/r ,<( +()(*+a*, i* ,<a, .(@r( */,
2" >a8, 9r/88$ W(@r( 8,ill i* ,<( 7i++l( /) 9r/88$ I) ,<(
25 +()(*8( <a8 )r,<(r i*ir ,<a,@8 a+7i88il( ,<a,@8 >r/>(r
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6"5
F10:l3 Trial
1 a/, r$ Kar>(l(8! ,<( +()(*8( 9a* 8,ill >r8( ,<a,! 8/
2 ,<(r(@8 */ >r(+i9( ,/ 8,ri0i*: ,<( >ri/r ,(8,i7/*$
3 A*+ ,<( >r/l(7 .i,< l(a#i*: i, i* i8 ,<(r(@8 #(r
" 9l(ar 9ir9i, la. ,<a, i) <(ar8a li0( ,<a, 9/7(8 i*! ,<(
5 9ra,i#( a+7i88iili, +/9,ri*( a>>li(8 a*+ ,<( :/#(r*7(*, 9a*
6 :(, (i#al(*, <(ar8a i* /* r(+ir(9,$ S/ ,<( :/#(r*7(*,
9(r,ai*l ./l+ i*ir( /) S>(9ial A:(*, D(r-Y(:<iaa* i* ,<(
% 8a7( )a8<i/* ,<a, ,<( +()(*8( i*ir(+ /* 9r/88 a/, all ,<(
r(a8/*8 ,<a, <( */. (li(#(8 ,<( +()(*+a*, i8 :il,! a*+ ,<a,
14 ./l+ 9(r,ai*l ( a>>r/>ria,($ A*+ I ,<i*0 ,<a, .a8 .<a, /r
11 H/*/r .a*,(+ ,/ a#/i+ 8,ri0i*: ,<( ,(8,i7/* ,<a,@8
12 /(9,i/*al( ,<a, 9a7( i* /* T<r8+a$
13 THE COURT S/ <(r( i8 .<a, .(@r( :/i*: ,/ +/ --
1" R$ DRATEL 8, /*( /,<(r ,<i*:$
15 THE COURT Y(8$
16 R$ DRATEL T<( 0*(. )ll .(ll .<a, .a8 i* ,<( 3544$
1 T<( 9a**/, -- i, 9a**/, ( ,<a, ,<i8 .a8 */, /* ,<( ra+ar )/r
1% ,<(7! ,<(* ,/ 8i, a*+ l(, i, all 9/7( i* a*+ ,<(* 9/7>l(,(l
1 (#i89(ra,( ,<( +()(*8( a),(r ,<( )a9, i8 *)air! a*+ ,<a,@8 a
24 .ai#(r$
21 T<( 0*(. (,,(r ,<a* a*/*( .<a, .a8 i* ,<( 9/*,(x,
22 /) 7 (8,i/*8 a*+ .<a, .a8 i* ,<( 9/*,(x, /) A:(*,
23 D(r-Y(:<iaa*@8 a*8.(r8$
2" THE COURT r$ Tr*(r$
25 R$ TURNER I ./l+ 8a *(#(r i* a 7illi/* (ar8
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6"6
F10:l3 Trial
1 ./l+ I <a#( i7a:i*(+ ,<a, ,<( +()(*8( ./l+ ( ,ri*: ,/
2 all(:( ,<a, ar0 Kar>(l(8 )ra7(+ Dr(a+ ;ira,( R/(r,8$ I +/*@,
3 ,<i*0 ,<a, .a8 9l(ar )r/7 ,<( />(*i*: a*+ ,<a, .a8 */, a>>ar(*,
" ,/ ,<( :/#(r*7(*, *,il ,<( (8,i/*i*: 9a7( i* ,<a, .a$ S/
5 ,<( :/#(r*7(*, I +/*@, ,<i*0 .a8 >, /* */,i9( ,<( />(*i*:
6 al/*($
THE COURT a8i8 )/r 7 rli*: i8 */, ,<a, ,<(
% :/#(r*7(*, 8</l+ */, <a#( a*,i9i>a,(+ ,<a, ,<( 7a .(ll <a#(
a*,i9i>a,(+ i,$ T<( 8</l+ <a#( /(9,(+! , ,<( +i+*@,$
14 W( ar( */. .<(r( .( ar($
11 W( <a#( <a+ a* /(9,i/* ,<a, .( <a#( */. ,al0(+ a/,
12 (x,(*8i#(l! a*+ I .ill 8,ri0( ,<( ,(8,i7/* ,<a, i8 i*+i9a,(+
13 i* ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 (7ail ,/ ,<( C/r,! , */, ri:<, */.$ I
1" 8a ,<a, ,/ / )/l08 8/ ,<a, / 9a* >la* ,<( r(7ai*+(r /)
15 /r 9r/88 a*+ ,<( :/#(r*7(*, 9a* >la* i,8 r(+ir(9, a8
16 a>>r/>ria,($
1 I +/ */,! </.(#(r! >la* ,/ >/i*, ,<( r ,/ ,<(
1% 8>(9i)i9 J a*+ A@8 ,<a, I@7 8,ri0i*:! *l(88 / )/l08 7a0(
1 ar:7(*,8 ,<a, ,<a,@8 .<a, I 8</l+ +/$
24 i*,(*,! .<i9< I i*,(*+ ,/ +/ */, ri:<, */.! i8 ,/
21 :i#( ,<( r a :(*(ral i*8,r9,i/* a/, 88>i9i/*8 a*+
22 9/*9l8i/*8 ,<a, ,<( a:(*, r(a9<(+ ar( 8,r90 )r/7 ,<( r(9/r+
23 a*+ ,<(* ,/ >r/#i+( 9l(ar i*+i9a,i/* li*( ,/ ,<( 9/r,
2" r(>/r,(r a*+ ,/ (#(r/*( <(r( a8 ,/ .<a, i8 8,r90 )r/7 ,<(
25 r(9/r+! , I +/*@, ,<i*0 i, 8,a*+8 i* a*/*(@8 i*,(r(8, ,/
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6"
F10:l3 Trial
1 <a#( i, ( >, /* ,/ ,<( 89r((* i* ,(r78 /) (xa9,l .<a,@8
2 8,r90 )r/7 ,<( r(9/r+$ T<a, 8((78 ,/ i*+i9a,( ,a0i*: a.a a*+
3 :i#i*: 7/r( .(i:<, ,/ i, all a, ,<( 8a7( ,i7($ S/ I ,<i*0 i,
" a9,all <a8 i88(8 .<(r( i, 9/7>/*+8 ,<( >r/l(7$
5 B, .( 9a* +(al .i,< ,<a,! ,<( 7(,</+! a, a*/,<(r
6 ,i7($ A*+ .<(* I 8a a*/,<(r ,i7(! i, ./*@, ( a l/*: ,i7(!
, i* ,(r78 /) (i*: al( ,/ *+(r8,a*+ .<a, ,/ >r/9((+ .i,<
% ri:<, */.! >(/>l( 8</l+ >r/9((+ .i,< ,<a, #i(. a*+ ,/
9/*8,r9, ,<( r(7ai*+(r /) /r 9r/88$
14 I) i, :/(8 /* l/*:(r ,<a* / .(r( a*,i9i>a,i*:!
11 r$ Dra,(l! a8 a r(8l,! ,<(* I *+(r8,a*+$
12 R$ DRATEL I +/*@, 0*/. ,<a, I@7 >r(>ar(+ ,/ +/ i,
13 )/r ,<i8 r(a8/* Fir8, /) all! ,<(r( ar( )a9,8 <(r( a*+
1" )a9,al a*8.(r8 a*+ )a9,al (8,i/*8 ,<a, ,<( :/#(r*7(*, <a8
15 i*9l+(+ ,<a, 8</l+ */, ( 8,ri90(* *+(r a* 9ir978,a*9(8$
16 THE COURT I <a#( r(#i(.(+ ,<(7 a*+ I +/ (li(#( ,<a,
1 .<a, ,<( i*+i9a,(+ ,<( ./l+ 8,ri0( i8 9/*8i8,(*, .i,< 7
1% rli*:$ T<(r( ar( >i(9(8 ,<a, ar( ar/*+ i,! a*+ I a887(
1 /@#( :/, ,<( 8a7( 8<a+(+ >/r,i/*8 ,<a, I <a#( --
24 R$ DRATEL Y(8$
21 THE COURT -- ,<a, ar( */, 8,r90 a*+ a>>r/>ria,(l
22 8/! a*+ ,<a, ./l+ r(7ai* i* ,(r78 /) ,G/x a*+ ar0 Kar>(l(8$
23 I 7(a*! <(@8 */, (li7i*a,(+ )r/7 ,<( r(9/r+$ A*+ /@ll
2" 9(r,ai*l ( al( ,/ ar:( .<a,(#(r i*)(r(*9(8 / ,<i*0 /
25 9a* ar:($
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 66/178
6"%
F10:l3 Trial
1 R$ DRATEL B, ,<(r( ar( /,<(r a8>(9,8 /) ,<i8 ,<a,
2 ar( 8i7>l */, -- ,<a, ar( )a9,al! 89< a8 9i,i(*8<i>! 89<
3 a8 ,<( >ar, /* >a:( 546 a*+ 54! .<i9< i8 a/, ,<( 9/*+9, /)
" ,<( i*#(8,i:a,i/*$ I, <a8 */,<i*: ,/ +/ .i,< --
5 THE COURT I (li(#( ,<( :/#(r*7(*, <a8! 9/*8i8,(*,
6 .i,< 7 l(*:,< rli*: ,<i8 7/r*i*:! 9ai*(+ ,<( 7a,(rial
a>>r/>ria,(l$ S/ I@ll l//0 a, (a9< /) ,<( i*+i#i+al J a*+
% A@8 a:ai*! , / 8</l+ >r/9((+ ri:<, */. a8 i) ,</8( >i(9(8
ar( :/i*: ,/ ( 8,r90 )r/7 ,<( r(9/r+$
14 R$ DRATEL I@7 */, 8r( I 9a* >r/9((+ /* ,<i8 l(#(l
11 (9a8( */. I <a#( ,/ :/ a90 a*+ r(9/*8,r9, all ,<i8 7a,(rial
12 ,<a, .a8 */(9,(+ ,/$ I <a#( ,/ :/ a90 a*+ l//0 a, >ar,8 /)
13 ,<( 9r/88 ,<a, .(r( alr(a+ )i*i8<(+ a*+ +/*( a*+ ,<(*
1" r(9/*8,r9, i,$ I 9a* :/ /* .i,< 7 9r/88 ri:<, */.! , ,<(*
15 I@+ li0( a r(a0 *,il ,/7/rr/.$
16 THE COURT N/$ I@7 +/*( .i,< ,<i8 i88($ I) ,<(
1 :/#(r*7(*, <a+ /(9,(+ ,i7(l a, ,<( )ir8, J a*+ A! .(
1% ./l+*@, ( <a#i*: ,<i8 i88( ri:<, */. (9a8( i, ./l+ <a#(
1 ((* <i:<li:<,(+ /* ,<( a8i8 /) 88>i9i/*! 9/*(9,r( a*+
24 (li() ri:<, ,<(* a8 />>/8(+ ,/ :/i*: /*$
21 R$ DRATEL A*+ I ./l+ <a#( r(><ra8(+ ,<( (8,i/*$
22 THE COURT I@7 8ai*: :/ a90 a*+ / 9a* r(><ra8( a,
23 ,<( (8,i/*8 ri:<, */.$
2" R$ DRATEL B, I *((+ ,i7( ,/ l//0 a, ,<i8$ T<i8 i8
25 8(#(* /r (i:<, +i))(r(*, >i(9(8$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
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http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 67/178
6"
F10:l3 Trial
1 THE COURT W( <a#( ((* +(ali*: .i,< ,<( >/88iili,
2 ,<a, ,<i8 #(r i*)/r7a,i/* 9/l+ ( 8,r90 8i*9( T<r8+a
3 *i:<,$
" R$ DRATEL N/$ T<( +i+*@, i+(*,i) ,<i8 *,il 24
5 7i*,(8 a:/$
6 THE COURT N/$ I, .a8 /#i/8 ,/ 7( a*+ i, 8</l+
<a#( ((* /#i/8 ,/ / )/l08 ,<a, .<(* .( .(r( +(ali*: .i,<
% a* /(9,i/* a/, a ,>( /) ,(8,i7/*! ,<a, /*( >/,(*,ial
r(8l,! >ar,i9larl i* li:<, /) ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 l(,,(r .<(*
14 ,<( 7a+( a* a>>li9a,i/* ,/ 8,ri0(! i8 ,<a, 9(r,ai* ,<i*:8
11 ./l+ ( 8,r90$ T<( /*l (8,i/* .a8 .<a,$
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22 >r/9((+ i* 7i*+$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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1 :/i*: ,/ :/ i*,/ 9/*9l8i/*8 /r (li()8! ,/ 8,a a.a )r/7
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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652
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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653
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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65"
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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655
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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656
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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65
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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1% Y/ 7a a*8.(r$
1 A$ I, .a8 8/7(,<i*: ,<a, 9a7( )r/7 7 8/r9( ,<a, ,/l+ 7(
24 ,<a,$
21 J$ B, / .r/,( ,<a,! +i+ / */,
22 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
23 J$ Di+*@, / .ri,( ,<a,
2" THE COURT L(, 7( a80 i, ,<i8 .a
25 Di+ / l//0 a, a *7(r /) .(8i,(8 ,<a, .(r( 8i*:
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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662
F10:l3 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 ,<( 8a7( >la,)/r7
2 THE WITNESS I +i+*@, -- i, .a8 i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, .a8
3 8<ar(+ ,/ 7( 7 8/r9( a, ,<( ,i7( ,<a, i*8,r9,(+ 7( /*
" ,<a,$ I .a8*@, )a7iliar a8 a .( a+7i*i8,ra,/r a8 ,<( 8/r9(
5 .a8$
6 THE COURT I 8((! , / +i+ >(r8/*all l//0 a,
(+iaWi0i a*+ l//0 a, ,<( Sil0 R/a+ )/r7 a*+ 8a. 8/7( /#(rla>
% i* ,<( >la,)/r78
THE WITNESS I 8a. i, .a8 ,<( 8a7( #(r8i/* *7(r
14 78(l)! (8! I +i+$
11 THE COURT T<( /,<(r i*)/r7a,i/* / <a#( a/, ,<(
12 (x,(*, ,/ .<i9< ,<a, 8a7( #(r8i/* *7(r .a8 (i*: 8(+
13 /,<(r .(8i,(8 /r */,! ,<a, .a8 8/7(,<i*: ,<a, / >(r8/*all
1" +i+ */, >(r9(i#(
15 THE WITNESS T<a, I +i+ */, >(r9(i#(! */$
16 THE COURT All ri:<,! 8/ I ,<i*0 .(@ll 7/#( /*$
1 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
1%
1
24
21
22
23
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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663
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT All ri:<,$ S/ I ,<i*0 ,<a, / 9a* :/ /*$
2 BY R$ DRATEL
3 J$ Di+ / 8.(ar i* a* a))i+a#i, ,<a, Ba8(+ /* 7 ,rai*i*:
" a*+ (x>(ri(*9(! ,<i8 >la,)/r7 i8 */, .i+(l 8(+ )/r7
5 a+7i*i8,ra,/r8
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J$ Di+ / */, 8.(ar ,/ ,<a, T<a, i8 ,<( (8,i/*$ Di+ /
% */, 8.(ar *+(r /a,< i* a* a))i+a#i, ,<a,! a8(+ /* /r
,rai*i*: a*+ (x>(ri(*9(! ,<( Wi0i 1$1! ,<( (+iaWi0i 1$1
14 #(r8i/* i8 */, 9/77/*l 8(+ )/r7 a+7i*i8,ra,/r8
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1" 8/rr! ,<( Sil0 R/a+ )/r7! a*+ 8/7(,<i*: 9all(+ -- a*+ ,7
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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66"
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 A$ T<i*:8 ,<a, ar( />(* 8/r9( i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, I 9/l+ --
2 ,<a, I 9/l+ r(8(ar9< a8 .(ll a8 a* /,<(r -- a* /,<(r 8/r9(8
3 I 9/l+ ,al0 ,/$
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5 r(8>(9, ,/ r$ Kar>(l(8@ (x>(r,i8( i* Li*x! L-i-*--x!
6 8/),.ar( --
R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
% J$ -- /r Li*x >r/:ra78
THE COURT H( 9a* :i#( 8 ,<( 8/r9(8 ,<a, <( 8(+$
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11 r$ Kar>(l(8@ a90:r/*+! +i+ / i+(*,i) i*)/r7a,i/* .<i9<
12 r()(rr(+ ,/ a* (x>(ri(*9( <( <a+ i* +i))(r(*, 0i*+8 /)
13 >r/:ra77i*: la*:a:(8
1" THE WITNESS I +i+ /8(r#( 8/7( /) ,<( />(* 8/r9( i*
15 Li*0(+I* >a:(8 a*+ 89< ,<a, <( +i+ (x>r(88 --
16 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
1 THE COURT All ri:<,$ Di+ / +/ a*,<i*: ,/
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1 >a:(8
24 THE WITNESS N/$ I .a8*@, al( ,/ 9r/88-r()(r(*9(
21 ,<a,$
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23 i+(*,i) 9(r,ai* 8/r9(8 .<i9< i*+i9a,(+ ,/ / a, l(a8, ,<a,
2" ,<( ./r+8 /* ,<( >a:( 8((7 ,/ 8::(8, ,<a, ,<(r( .a8 Li*x
25 (x>(r,i8(
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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665
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE WITNESS T<(r( .a8$
2 THE COURT A*+ / /r8(l) +i+*@, #(ri) .<(,<(r /r
3 */, a +(:r(( <a+ ((* /,ai*(+ )r/7 a >ar,i9lar *i#(r8i,
" / 8, r(a+ ,<(7 /* ,<( >a:(
5 THE WITNESS T<a, i8 9/rr(9,$
6 THE COURT All ri:<,$ W(ll! ,<(*! la+i(8 a*+
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% 8a.! ,<a, <( 8a. a #ari(, /) 8/r9(8 ,<a, i*+i9a,(8 ,<a, ,<(r(
.a8 Li*x (x>(r,i8(! , / 8</l+ *+(r8,a*+ ,<a, <( +i+ */,
14 #(ri)$ S/! ,<(r()/r(! i, i8 */, )/r ,<( ,r,< /) ,<a, i, i8
11 )/r ,<( )a9, ,<a, <( 8a. ,<a, i*)/r7a,i/*$ All ri:<,
12 BY R$ DRATEL
13 J$ A*+ ,<( 8a7( ,<i*: .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ ;H;! .<i9< i8 a
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15 R$ TURNER I /(9,$
16 THE COURT I a7 :/i*: ,/ all/. <i7 ,/ >r/9((+ i* a
1 8i7ilar 7a**(r ,<a, ,<( C/r, 8, +i+ ,/ la a >ar,i9lar
1% )/*+a,i/*! a*+ i) <( +i+ */, #(ri) .<(,<(r /r */, ,<(
1 (x>(r,i8( 9a7( )r/7 a *i#(r8i,! .( .ill )i:r( ,<a, /,! /r
24 )r/7 a*/,<(r 9r(+(*,iali*: /r:a*ia,i/*$
21 Y/ 7a a*8.(r$
22 THE WITNESS Y(8! I +i+$ I, .a8 i* ,<( 8a7( .a ,<a,
23 I 8a. ,<( Li*x la*:a:( ,<(r($
2" BY R$ DRATEL
25 J$ B ,<( .a! Li*x i8 ,<( />(ra,i/*al 88,(7 )/r Sil0 R/a+!
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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666
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 ri:<,! i* 7a* .a8
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" A$ ;H; i8 a +i))(r(*, .(8i,( >r/:ra77i*: la*:a:($
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ri:<,
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13 a++r(88(8! ri:<,
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23 9all(+ YSJL! 9/rr(9,
2" R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
25 J$ SJL$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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66
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/r7$
2 THE COURT I .ill all/. i,$
3 A$ I (li(#( <( .a8 8i*: SJL (8$
" J$ D/ / *((+ ,/ ( 8r(
5 A$ I,@8 <a*+ i* <a*+ .i,< ;H; 8/ I@7 a887i*:! (8! <( +i+$
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12 J$ I) / 8, l//0 a, ,<a, )ir8, >ara:ra>< &<a*+i*:'$
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15 OK$
16 J$ A*+ 8/ / :/, 9/*)ir7a,i/* ,<r/:< ,<( 8>/(*a8 ,<a, <(
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23 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/*+a,i/*$
2" J$ Ba8(+ /* /r i*#(8,i:a,i/*
25 R$ TURNER T<( 8a7( /(9,i/*$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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66%
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT I .ill all/. i,$
2 D/ / .a*, ,/ r(><ra8( i,
3 R$ DRATEL N/$ I) ,<( C/r, .ill all/. i,$
" THE COURT I .ill all/. i,$
5 A$ I@7 8/rr$ C/l+ / r(>(a,! >l(a8($
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12 87all 87all B 9a>i,al H! ri:<, T<a, i8 ,<( G(r7a* 8))ix
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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66
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 i*#/l#(7(*, a*+ a88/9ia,i/*8 .i,< Sil0 R/a+
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" J$ Di+ / r(#i(. */,(8 )r/7 r$ Ulri9<,@8 9/7>,(r
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11 THE COURT N/! / 9a* +/ i,! , / 9a*@, a80 <i7
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25 .i,<+ra.*$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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64
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16 )/r ,<( )a9, ,<a, ,<( r(>/r, i*+i9a,(+ ,<a,$
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25 <a90(+! ri:<,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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61
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ I, 9all8 )/r 8>(9la,i/*$
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3 J$ I) i, <a+ ((* <a90(+$
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23 R$ DRATEL I@7 8/rr$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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62
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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23 a -- .i,<+ra.*$
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25 ./r,< /) i,9/i*8 i* ,<( a99/*,! 9/rr(9,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%5
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ La90 /) )/*+a,i/*$
2 THE COURT 8, 8/ ,<a, I@7 9l(ar a*+ 8/ I *+(r8,a*+
3 ,<( (8,i/*! +/ / 7(a* ,<( *7(r /) i,9/i*8 9<a*:(+ /r ,<(
" #al( /) ,<( i,9/i*8 9<a*:(+! /r /,<
5 R$ DRATEL I a7 :/i*: ,/ :(, ,/ ,<a,! /r H/*/r$
6 J$ S/ ,<i8 i8 a8(+ /* /r i*#(8,i:a,i/*! ri:<,! a*+ /r
7/*i,/ri*: /) ,</8( .all(,8! ,</8( a99/*,8! 9/rr(9,
% R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ T<( )/*+a,i/*! </. ,<(8(
.all(,8 ar( a88/9ia,(+ .i,< Sil0 R/a+$
14 THE COURT W(ll! i* 9/**(9,i/* .i,< /r r(#i(. /)
11 ,<( 9/77i88i/*8 ,<a, 7i:<, ( /,ai*(+ ,<r/:< >r9<a8i*: ,<(7
12 /* Sil0 R/a+! +i+ / l//0 a, a* r(9/r+8
13 THE WITNESS I, .a8 i* 9/**(9,i/* .i,< /r >r9<a8(8
1" .( +i+ a*+ 7/#i*: 7/*( i* a*+ /,$ T<(8( .(r( r(9/r+8 /r
15 a++r(88(8 ,<a, .( i+(*,i)i(+ i* ,<( 9/r8( /) ,<( i*#(8,i:a,i/*
16 ,<a, .( 88>(9,(+ .(r( a88/9ia,(+ ,/ Sil0 R/a+$
1 THE COURT A*+ +i+ / 7/*i,/r ,<( a99/*,
1% i*)/r7a,i/* )/r ,</8( a++r(88(8
1 THE WITNESS I +i+$
24 THE COURT All ri:<,$ A*+ +ri*: .<a, >(ri/+ /) ,i7(
21 ar( / ,al0i*: a/,! r$ Dra,(l
22 R$ DRATEL W(ll! ,<r/:< ,<( 7i++l( >ar, /) -- ,<(r(
23 i8 a 8(ri(8 /) +a,(8 i* 2412$
2" THE COURT S/ +i+ ,</8( *7(r8 )l9,a,( -- i* ,(r78
25 /) *7(r8 /) i,9/i*8 )l9,a,( ,<r/:</, 2412
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%6
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE WITNESS I, i*9r(a8(+ 8,(a+il i* ,<a, a99/*, >
2 ,/ a 9(r,ai* >(ri/+$
3 THE COURT All ri:<,$ OK$ r$ Dra,(l! .< +/*@, /
" >i90 i, > )r/7 <(r($
5 R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /! /r H/*/r$
6 J$ S/ i* l /) 2412! ,<(r( .(r( a/, 544!444 i,9/i*8 i* a*
a99/*,! 9/rr(9,
% R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/r7$ A* a99/*,$
THE COURT I .ill all/. i,$
14 R$ DRATEL I 7(a*! ,<( a99/*, .( ar( ,al0i*: a/,$
11 I) I <a#( ,/ r(>(a, (#(r,<i*: i* (#(r (8,i/*! I .ill$ B,
12 ,<a*0 /! /r H/*/r! )/r all/.i*: 7($
13 J$ S/ i* ,<a, a99/*, ,<a, / .(r( 7/*i,/ri*:! l 14! 2412!
1" ,<( a99/*, <a+ 543!%25 i,9/i*8 i* i,! ri:<,
15 A$ T<a, 8/*+8 a/, 9/rr(9,! (8$
16 J$ A*+ ,<( #al( /) a i,9/i* a, ,<a, ,i7( .a8 M$14! 9/rr(9,
1 A$ S/*+8 a/, a99ra,(! (8$
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1 5 ,i7(8 ! a++ ,<( (r/ --
24 A$ Carr$ Y(8$
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22 A$ I <a+ a 9al9la,/r! ri:<,! (8$
23 J$ N/.! 8/ ,<(r( i8 544!444 i,9/i*8 i* ,<( a99/*,! a*+ ,<(r(
2" .(r( 1""!444 i,9/i*8 8(i(+ )r/7 r$ Ulri9<,@8 la>,/> a, ,<(
25 ,i7( /) <i8 arr(8,! ri:<,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%
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1 A$ 1""!444 i,9/i*8! (8$
2 J$ S/ ,<(r( .(r( 544!444 i,9/i*8 i* l /) 2412 i* ,<a,
3 a99/*,$
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5 ri:<,! ()/r( ,<( 8i,( .a8 ,a0(* +/.*! 9/rr(9,
6 A$ T<a, i8 9/rr(9,$
J$ S/ / <a+ ,<( (*,ir(, /) ,</8( 1516 7/*,<8 /) </. 7a*
% i,9/i*8 Sil0 R/a+ ./l+ 9/ll(9, -- .i,<+ra.*$
Sil0 R/a+ 9/*,i*(+ ,/ 7a0( 8al(8! 9/ll(9, 9/77i88i/*8
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11 A$ T<( +i+$
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13 A$ I, ./l+$
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15 i,9/i* .a8 a, M144 >(r i,9/i*! ri:<,
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21 8, ,<a, a7/*, /) i,9/i*8! i, ./l+ ( ./r,< 4 7illi/*!
22 ri:<, -- I@7 8/rr! 54 7illi/*
23 A$ T<a, 8/*+8 a/, ri:<,! (8$
2" J$ 1" ,i7(8 ,<r((-a*+-a-<al)$
25 N/.! i) 8/7(/*( <a+ 9a8<(+ /, ,</8( 544!444 i,9/i*8
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%%
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 .<(* i,9/i*8 .(r( a, M254 >(r i,9/i*! .<i9< /99rr(+ i* ,<(
2 8>ri*: /) 2413! ri:<,
3 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/r7$ F/*+a,i/*$
" R$ DRATEL I <a#(*@, )i*i8<(+ ,<( (8,i/*$
5 THE COURT I ,<i*0 i, i8 ,<( <>/,<(,i9al *a,r( /)
6 i,$ W< +/*@, / 8,i90 ,/ .<a, <a>>(*(+ i* ,<i8 a99/*,
R$ DRATEL All ri:<,$
% J$ Bi,9/i*! +ri*: ,<( >(ri/+ ,<a, .( .(r( ,al0i*: a/,
()/r(! O9,/(r 18,! 2413! i,9/i* >(a0(+ i* ,<( 8>ri*: /)
14 2413! 9/rr(9,
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21 ,<( a99/*,8! (8$
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23 ri:<,! i* ,<( 9/r8( /) i,8 -- )r/7 ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8
2" i*#(8,i:a,i/*! Sil0 R/a+ 7a+( M1$2 illi/* i* 8al(8! ri:<,
25 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/*+a,i/*$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 J$ I, i8 i* ,<( 9/7>lai*,! ri:<,
2 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
3 THE COURT D/ / 0*/. i) i,9/i* -- 8,ri0( ,<a,$
" D/ / 0*/. i) Sil0 R/a+ i8 all(:(+ ,/ <a#( -- 8,ri0(
5 ,<a,$
6 D/ / 0*/. ,<( #/l7( /) 8al(8 Sil0 R/a+ <a+ +ri*:
,<( >(ri/+ /) ,i7( ,<a, 8>a*8 ,<i8 i*#(8,i:a,i/*
% THE WITNESS O*l .<a, .a8 8<ar(+ .i,< 7( ,<( FBI$
THE COURT Di+ / /r8(l) l//0 a, a* +/97(*,8
14 r(la,i*: ,/ ,<( Sil0 R/a+ .(8i,( ,<a, i*+i9a,(+ ,/ / ,<(
11 #/l7( /) 8al(8
12 THE WITNESS T<(r( .a8*@, a*,<i*: +ir(9,l /* ,<(
13 .(8i,( ,<a, ./l+ ,(ll / .<a, ,<( -- .<a, ,<( #/l7( .a8!
1" , ,<(r( .a8 .<a, 9a7( /, /) ,<( FBI i*#(8,i:a,i/* /* ,<(
15 8(r#(r! ,<a, ,<( 9a7( ,/ ,<a, )i:r( )/r ,<( 9/7>lai*,$
16 THE COURT W< +/*@, / ,r i, i* a +i))(r(*, .a
1 R$ DRATEL I al8/ 7/#( i, *+(r %41 a8 a -- .(ll!
1% */, )r/*, /) ,<( r$
1 THE COURT W(@ll >i90 i, > a, /r r(a0$
24 BY R$ DRATEL
21 J$ A*.a! 8/ a8(+ /* ,<( i*)/r7a,i/* ,<a, .a8 +(#(l/>(+! ,<(
22 FBI 9/*9l+(+ ,<a, Sil0 R/a+ <a+ 7a+( M1$2 illi/* i* 8al(8
23 /#(r ,<( 9/r8( /) i,8 li)(,i7(! 9/rr(9,
2" R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ H(ar8a$
25 THE COURT All ri:<,$ I) <( /*l 0*/.8 a/, ,<a,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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64
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 )r/7 <(ari*: a/, i, )r/7 8/7(/+ (l8(! ,<(* i, ./l+ (
2 <(ar8a$
3 D/ / <a#( a* i*+(>(*+(*, 8/r9(8 /) i*)/r7a,i/*
" .<(r( / l(ar*(+ ,<( #/l7( /) 8al(8! (i,<(r a>>r/xi7a,(l /r
5 9/*9r(,(l! ,<a, /99rr(+ /* Sil0 R/a+
6 THE WITNESS O,<(r ,<a* .<a, .a8 8<ar(+ .i,< 7( )r/7
,<(7! */$
% THE COURT All ri:<,$ A*+ ,<a,@8 <(ar8a$ S/ --
BY R$ DRATEL
14 J$ Di+ / (#(r r(a+ ,<( 9/7>lai*, i* ,<i8 9a8(
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12 a+7i88il( (#i+(*9($
13 J$ N/.! i* N/#(7(r /) 2412! / 9/7>,(+ ,<a, Sil0 R/a+ .a8
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15 #al( /) i,9/i* a*+ ,<( #/l7( /) 8al(8 ,<a, / .(r( al( ,/
16 7/*i,/r +ri*: ,<a, >(ri/+! ri:<,
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25 A$ W(ll! ,<( 9/77i88i/* .a8 a8(+ /* ,<( 8al(8 >ri9(! a*+ ,<(
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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61
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1 8al(8 >ri9( ./l+ <a#( )l9,a,(+ .<(* 9/7>ar(+ ,/ ,<( #al( /)
2 i,9/i*$ S/! I 7(a*! i, ./l+ <a#( ((* r(l(#a*, ,/ ,<( 9/8,
3 /) ,<( i,9/i*$
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5 .(r( 8(i(+ )r/7 r$ Ulri9<,@8 la>,/>! ri:<,
6 A$ Y(8$
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25 A$ Y(8! ,<(r( .a8$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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63
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 J$ S/ ,<a, i*9r(a8(8 ,<a, *7(r! +/(8*@, i,
2 A$ I, +/(8! (8$
3 THE COURT S/ </. 7a* /) ,</8(! a>>r/xi7a,(l! +i+
" / <a#( Y/ :/, ,<( 8ix ,<a, / 9r(a,(+ /r8(l)
5 THE WITNESS C/rr(9,$
6 THE COURT H/. 7a*! a>>r/xi7a,(l! +i+ / ,a0( /#(r
i* /*( )/r7 /r a*/,<(r +ri*: ,<( (*,ir( ,i7( ,<a, / .(r( i*
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THE WITNESS A>>r/xi7a,(l a/, a +/(*$
14 THE COURT All ri:<,$ S/ / ,/9<(+ >(r8/*all
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12 THE WITNESS T<a, 8/*+ a/, ri:<,! (8$
13 THE COURT All ri:<,$
1" BY R$ DRATEL
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25 >r9<a8(8 ,<a, / <a+ ,al0(+ a/,! ri:<,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6"
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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5 :/i*:! ri:<,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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65
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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21 ,<( <a+ ,<( 8(r#(r8! ri:<,
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25 R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ F/*+a,i/*$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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66
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT W< +/*@, / +i: i* a li,,l( 7/r( ,/ .<a,
2 ,<( FBI <a+ a*+ .<a, ,<i8 .i,*(88 0*/.8$
3 J$ A8 /) l 2413! ,<( FBI 0*(. ,<( l/9a,i/* /) Sil0 R/a+@8
" 8(r#(r8! ri:<,
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a ><8i9al ,<i*:
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)/*+a,i/*
14 THE COURT W< +/*@, / i*#(8,i:a,( .i,< ,<i8
11 .i,*(88 .<a, <( 0*/.8 a/, ,<( l/9a,i/*$
12 J$ Y/ 0*/. .<(r( ,<( l/9a,i/* .a8! ri:<,
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1" +i+ 9/7( a90 a8 (i*: Sil0 R/a+@8 8(r#(r$
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2" THE COURT S8,ai*(+$ Y/ *((+ ,/ a80 i,
25 +i))(r(*,l$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 J$ Dri*: ,<( 9/r8( /) /r i*#(8,i:a,i/* / l(ar*(+ ,<(
2 ><8i9al l/9a,i/*! ,<( 9/*,r! ,<a, ,</8( 8(r#(r8 .(r( l/9a,(+
3 i*! ri:<,
" R$ TURNER A:ai*! /(9,i/*$ F/*+a,i/*$
5 R$ DRATEL I a7 a80i*: i) <( l(ar*(+$
6 THE COURT H( 9a* a*8.(r ,<a, (8 /r */$
A$ O*l )r/7 .<a, I .a8 ,/l+ .<(r( ,<( .(r( a, i8 .<a, I
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THE COURT Di+ / l(ar* )r/7 a* /,<(r 8/r9( a>ar,
14 )r/7 .<a, / .(r( ,/l+ Di+ / 8(( a* .ri,,(* +/97(*,a,i/*
11 a/, ,<a,! a/, ,<( l/9a,i/* /) ,<( Sil0 R/a+ 8(r#(r8
12 THE WITNESS I +i+ */,$
13 THE COURT All ri:<,$
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21 BY R$ DRATEL
22 J$ Di+ / 0*/. ,<a, ,<( FBI 0*(. .<(r( ,<( l/9a,i/* -- /
23 0*(. ,<a, ,<( .(r( :/i*: ,/ i7a:( ,<( 8(r#(r8! 9/rr(9,
2" R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$ A:ai*! <(ar8a$
25 THE COURT W(ll! l(, 7( a80 /$ Di+ / /r8(l)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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6%
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1 (#(r -- +i+ / <a#( a* >(r8/*al i*#/l#(7(*, i* ,<( i7a:i*: /)
2 ,<( 8(r#(r8
3 THE WITNESS N/! I +i+ */,$
" THE COURT Di+ / r(9(i#( .ri,,(* +/97(*,a,i/* ,<a,
5 r(la,(+ ,/ ,<( i7a:i*: /) ,<( 8(r#(r8
6 THE WITNESS N/! I +i+ */,$
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% )/r ,<i8 8/ .(@ll +/ i, ,<r/:< 8/7(/+ (l8($
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14 )/r <i7! .<i9< i8
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12 (9a8( .<(* ,<( ,ra))i9 ./l+ ( l(88! ,<a, ,<( a+7i*8 ./*@,
13 ( /* ,<( 8i,(
1" A$ I8 ,<(r( a >ar,i9lar +a,( ,<a, / ar( r()(rri*: ,/ I8
15 ,<i8 la,(r /* .<(* I <a+ a99(88 ,/ ,<( 9/*,r/l I) / 9/l+
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1 THE COURT Di+ ,<(r( 9/7( a >/i*, i* ,i7( .<(* /
1% 9/77*i9a,(+ .i,< a*/*( (l8( i* la. (*)/r9(7(*, a8 ,/ a +a,(
1 .<(* ,<( 8(r#(r8 ./l+ ( i7a:(+! )r/7 /r >(r8>(9,i#(
24 THE WITNESS I +i+*@, <a#( a* i*#/l#(7(*, i* ,<(
21 i*i,ial 9a>,r( /) ,<( Sil0 R/a+ 8(r#(r$
22 THE COURT All ri:<,$
23 R$ DRATEL I a7 :/i*: ,/ 8</. ,<i8 )/r i7>(a9<7(*,!
2" /r H/*/r$ I 8</. / 645! 3545-645$
25 THE COURT Di+ / <a#( a* i*#/l#(7(*, i* a* /)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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44
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 J$ T<a, .a8 (9a8( / .a*,(+ i, ,/ ( +/*( i* a .a ,<a,
2 *//+ 9/l+ */,i9(! ri:<,! i) >/88il(
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" THE COURT r$ Dra,(l! .( ar( :/i*: ,/ ,a0( a
5 7i+-a),(r*//* r(a0$ I8 ,<i8 a* OK ,i7( )/r / ,/ 8,/>
6 R$ DRATEL T<i8 i8 )i*($
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% 7i+-a),(r*//* r(a0$ A*+ I .a*, ,/ r(7i*+ / */, ,/ ,al0 ,/
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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41
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 &r */, >r(8(*,'
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5 THE COURT All ri:<,$ L(,@8 all ( 8(a,(+ a*+ 8((
6 .<a, .(@#( :/,$
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13 <i8 *a7($ Y/ .ill <a#( ,/ ( #(r 9ar()l </. ,<a, i8 8(+
1" (9a8( i, i8 */, i* )/r ,<( ,r,<$
15 I8 ,<(r( a*,<i*: ,<a, / )/l08 ./l+ li0( ,/ rai8(
16 ri:<, */.
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21 )/r a*,<i*: *l(88 ,<( ar( (i*: /))(r(+ )/r ,<( ,r,<$ A*+
22 ,<( :/#(r*7(*, /(9,8 ,/ .<a, S9/,,! ,<( a:(*,! r(a+ /*
23 Li*0(+I* 9/7i*: i* )/r ,<( ,r,<$ A*/+ 9a* 9r(a,( a
2" Li*0(+I* >a:($ A*/+ 9a* 8a a*,<i*: ,<( .a*, a/,
25 ,<(78(l#(8 /* a Li*0(+I* >a:($ T<a, i8 .< ,<(r( ar( rl(8 /)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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42
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 <(ar8a ,<a, (xi8,$
2 S/ ,<( )a9, ,<a, <( r(a+ i, a8 >lai*,i))@8 ./r+! i,
3 +/(8*@, :i), i, a* 7/r( l(:i,i7a9 /r +/(8*@, 7a0( i, a* 7/r(
" a+7i88il($ A*+ I 8, a7 a)rai+ ,<a, -- I r(9/:*i( /r
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S/ ,<a, i8 .<a, ,<( :/#(r*7(*, <a8 9/*9(r*8 a/,$
% THE COURT I *+(r8,a*+ ,<( :/#(r*7(*,@8 9/*9(r*$
rli*: 8,a*+8$ I ,<i*0 I <a#( :i#(* ,<(7 a* i*8,r9,i/* (a9<
14 ,i7( ,<a, ,<i8 <a8 /99rr(+$ T<( r I ,<i*0 8((78 ,/ */+
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12 A*+! l//0! ,<(r( ar( .a8 i* .<i9< I ,<i*0 ,<(
13 li7i,i*: i*8,r9,i/*8 ar( ())(9,i#($ Y/ )/l08 .ill <a#( ,/ (
1" #(r 9/:*ia*, /) ,</8( li7i,i*: i*8,r9,i/*8 .<(* / +(9i+(
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1 i8 ,ri*:! .i,< 7a* /) ,<( */. #(r a9,i#( (#i+(*,iar
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1 li*(8 .<(r( ,<( (8,i/* i8 */, >(r)(9, , i, i8 */, 8/
24 i7>(r)(9, a8 ,/ 9r(a,( a ,(rri)i9 i88( i) all/.al(! a*+ ,<a,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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43
F10+l" D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 /(9,i/*8! :(*(rall 8>(a0i*:! ,<( <a#( ((* a>>r/>ria,( a*+
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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4"
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT Di+ / <a#( a*,<i*: ,/ +/ ()/r( .( ,a0(
2 a r(a0
3 R$ DRATEL Y(8$ O* ,<( 9/7>lai*,! 8, /*( 8(*,(*9(
" )r/7 ,<( 9/7>lai*, a/, ,<(8( )i:r(8! ,al0i*: a/, Sil0
5 R/a+! ,<(8( )i:r(8 ar( (i#al(*, ,/ r/:<l 1$2 illi/* i*
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12 / ./l+ *(#(r all/. a .</l( #ari(, /) 8,a,(7(*,8 ,/ ( >,
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1" a:ai*8, ,<( +()(*+a*,$ T>i9all! 8,a,(7(*,8 i* 9/7>lai*,8
15 <a#( */ -- ,<( <a#( (r/ (#i+(*,iar #al( a>ar, )r/7 .<a,
16 9/7(8 i* #ir,( /) ,<( ,rial$ S/ I <(ar /r >/i*,$ I
1 ,<i*0 ,<a, i) / .a*, ,/ 7a0( a >/i*, a/, .<a, 0i*+ /)
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24 8ai+ -- ,<( :/#(r*7(*, i8 :/i*: ,/ ,a0( a +ra7a,i9all
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22 THE COURT I, +/(8*@, 7a,,(r$
23 R$ DRATEL B, i, +/(8 (9a8( i,@8 a* a+7i88i/*
2" ,<(7 /) a 9(r,ai* *7(r a*+ */. ,<(@r( :/i*: ,/ +/ a 79<
25 l/.(r *7(r a*+ ,<( /*l r(a8/* ,<(@r( +/i*: a 79< l/.(r
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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45
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 *7(r i8 (9a8( ,<( .a*, ,<a, *7(r ,/ 78,(ri/8l all /)
2 a 8++(* 7a,9< .<a,@8 i* r$ Ulri9<,@8 9/7>,(r a8 />>/8(+ ,/
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" THE COURT r$ Tr*(r! .< +/*@, / a++r(88 i,
5 R$ TURNER I 9a* a++r(88 ,<a,$ Fir8, /) all! ,<(
6 9/7>lai*, (x>lai*(+ ,<a, ,<( )i:r(8 :i#(* .(r( a8(+ /* ,<(
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,<( 7a,9<(+ ,<( #al( /) ,<( i,9/i*8 a, ,<( ,i7( /) (a9< 8al(
14 i* (8,i/*! 8/ ,<( #al( /) i,9/i*8 i8 )l9,a,i*:$ S/! /
11 9/l+ <a#( <a+ ,(* i,9/i*8 r(9(i#(+ ,<( 8i,( i* 2412 ,<a,
12 .(r( ./r,< a l/, l(88 ,<a* ,<( ./l+ ( .<(* ,<( .(r(
13 r(9(i#(+ )/r 8al( i* 2413$
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25 THE COURT W< +/*@, / a++r(88 --
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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46
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 R$ DRATEL T<a,@8 */, a ,r( #al($
2 THE COURT H/l+ /*$ W< +/*@, / a++r(88 ,<(
3 (#i+(*,iar i88( a8 ,/ .<(,<(r /r */, ,<i8 9/l+ ( a*
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5 R$ TURNER I,@8 */, a 8,a,(7(*, a:ai*8, i,8(l) a*+
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14 I, +/(8*@, r(ir( (i*: a:ai*8, i*,(r(8,$ T<( rl( r(ir(8
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15 /,ai*i*: a* arr(8, .arra*, a:ai*8, r$ Ulri9<, &9' a
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21 R$ TURNER N/*( /) ,<(8( 8,a,(7(*,8 .(r( 7a+(
22 ,<i8 .i,*(88 /r a* a:(*, /) ,<i8 .i,*(88 /r ,<i8 a:(*, +i+ */,
23 8.(ar /, ,<( 9/7>lai*,! 8/ i,@8 */, a* a+7i88i/* ,<i8
2" .i,*(88$
25 R$ DRATEL A*+ I@7 */, a80i*: ,<a, /) ,<i8 .i,*(88$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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4
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 I@7 7/#i*: i, i*+(>(*+(*,l --
2 THE COURT Y/ 9a*@, :(, i, i* ,<r/:< ,<i8 .i,*(88
3 (#(r >/88il( 8,a,(7(*, 7a+( ,<( :/#(r*7(*, a8 a* a+7i88i/*
" a >ar, />>/*(*,$
5 R$ DRATEL B i,8(l)! i,@8 a+7i88il($ I* /,<(r
6 ./r+8! i,8(l) i, +/(8*@, *((+ a .i,*(88$
THE COURT I) i, +/(8*@, *((+ a .i,*(88 a*+ i, 9a* (
% i,8(l) a+7i88il(! I *((+ 8/7( 9a8(8 /* ,<a, /r a 9a8( /r
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14 ri:<, */.! ri:<,! (9a8( i, 9a* 9/7( i* a, a* >/i*, i* ,i7($
11 R$ DRATEL A* a+7i88i/* i8 a* a+7i88i/*$
12 THE COURT Y/@r( 8i*: ,<( 9/7>lai*, i* a #(r
13 *i( .a i* ,(r78 /) :(,,i*: i* a* a+7i88i/* ,<r/:< a
1" 9/7>lai*,$ I,@8 */, ,>i9al i,@8 */, ,>i9all ,<( .a
15 9/7>lai*,8 ar( 8(+ a8 / 0*/.! (#(* .<(* (#i+(*9( i8 9/7i*:
16 i* 9/*,rar$
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1% (8,i/* ()/r( a*+ :i#(* ,<a, i,@8 */, *(9(88ar ,/ :(, i, i*
1 ,<r/:< ,<i8 .i,*(88! ,<(r(@8 */ r:(*9 ,/ +/i*: i, ri:<, */.$
24 R$ DRATEL I@ll 9all +:( aa8 i) I <a#( ,/!
21 a:i8,ra,( +:( aa8$ H( 8i:*(+ ,<( 9/7>lai*,$ H( r(a+ i,$
22 T<( 9a7( ,/ <i7 a8 ,<( U*i,(+ S,a,(8 :/#(r*7(*,$ T<(@r(
23 :/i*: ,/ r(8i8, ,<i8! /0a$
2" THE COURT Y/ 0*/. --
25 R$ DRATEL W(@ll 9all ,<( +:($
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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4%
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT W<(,<(r /r */, a* ,(8,i7/* /* ,<i8 ./l+
2 ( r(l(#a*, )r/7 a +:( /r )r/7 a*/*( I ,<i*0 i8 >ar, /) ,<(
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5 a 8,a,(7(*, i* a 9/7>lai*, a, ,<( /,8(, /) a 9a8( .<(* 7a*
6 ,<i*:8 9<a*:(+$ I, 7a (! r$ Dra,(l$
R$ DRATEL I,@8 *+(r /a,<$
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T<a,@8 ,<( (8, i*)/r7a,i/* a, ,<( ,i7($
14 R$ DRATEL B, --
11 THE COURT H/l+ /*$ I@7 */, 8::(8,i*: / 9a*@,
12 <a#( i,$ W<a, I@7 8::(8,i*: i8! i) i, +/(8*@, <a#( ,/ 9/7( i*
13 ,<r/:< ,<i8 .i,*(88! I *((+ ,/ l//0 a, i, (9a8( I@#( *(#(r
1" <a+ a* a,,/r*( ,r ,/ 8( a 8,a,(7(*, )r/7 a 9/7>lai*, a8
15 (#i+(*9( i* a 9ri7i*al >r/9((+i*: (9a8( / 9(r,ai*l *(#(r
16 .a*, a* /) ,<( (#i+(*9( /#i/8l a:ai*8, ,<( +()(*+a*, ,/
1 9/7( i*$
1% R$ DRATEL B, ,<a,@8 */, ,<( >/i*,$
1 THE COURT E#(* i) ,<(r( .a8 (#i+(*9( )r/7 a
24 9/9/*8>ira,/r! ,<a, ,<(r(@8 a 9/9/*8>ira,/r 8,a,(7(*, r(9i,(+
21 i* ,<( 9/7>lai*,! /@+ *(#(r .a*, ,<a, i*$
22 R$ DRATEL T<a, +/(8*@, 7a,,(r (9a8( i) I .a8
23 i7>(a9<i*: .i,< :ra*+ r ,(8,i7/*! I ./l+*@, >, i* ,<(
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25 T<a,@8 *(i,<(r <(r( */r ,<(r($ A*+ ,<( )a9, ,<a, --
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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4
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT L//0! I *((+ ,/ l//0 a, ,<i8 i8 .<a, I@7
2 8::(8,i*:$
3 R$ DRATEL I@7 al8/ 8ai*: ,/ /! ,<( )a9, ,<a, a
" >ar, 9<a*:(8 i,8 7i*+ +ri*: ,<( 9/r8( /) a li,i:a,i/* +/(8
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6 *+(r /a,< a8 a )a9, a*+ ,<a,@8 a* a+7i88i/*$
THE COURT Y/ 0*/.! / 7a ( ri:<,$ A*+ i, 7a (
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13 THE COURT I ./l+ ,a0( )r/7 a*/+ .</ ./l+ li0(
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24 R$ DRATEL N/! /r H/*/r$
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22 ,<(* 9/7( /* a90 a*+ 8,a *,il$
23 &R(9(88'
2" &I* />(* 9/r, r */, >r(8(*,'
25 THE COURT L(,@8 ri*: /, ,<( r$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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14
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 &r >r(8(*,'
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3 R$ DRATEL T<a*0 /$
" BY R$ DRATEL
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6 a 8(9/*+! a8(+ /* /r i*#(8,i:a,i/*! .<a, / .(r( al( ,/
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1" R$ TURNER O(9,i/* )/*+a,i/*$
15 THE COURT W< +/*@, / (8,ali8< .<a, 0i*+ /)
16 0*/.l(+:( <( <a8 a/, ,<a, a*+ ,<(* / 9a* ,a0( i, 8,(>
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21 THE COURT S8,ai*(+$
22 J$ Ha#( / 8((* +/97(*,8 )r/7 ,<( FBI .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ i,8
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2" R$ TURNER O(9,i/*$
25 J$ -- (i,<(r ()/r( /r 8i*9( .i,< r(8>(9, ,/ --
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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11
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 THE COURT I@ll all/. ,<i8$
2 R$ TURNER O(9,i/* <(ar8a$
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THE WITNESS O)
% THE COURT A 8(r#(r ,<a, all(:(+l <a+ ,<( Sil0 R/a+
8i,( r(8i+(*, /* i,
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25 J$ I* )a9, ,<( 8i,( .(*, /* )/r ,<( r(8, /) l! A:8, a*+
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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12
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 S(>,(7(r! ri:<,
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25 THE COURT S8,ai*(+ /* ,</8( :r/*+8$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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13
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 J$ Wa8*@, ,<(r( a +i8988i/* a7/*: a:(*9i(8 a/, ,<a,! a/,
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THE COURT W( <a#( */. --
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1 THE COURT I@ll all/. ,<a,$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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16
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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1
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1 R$ TURNER O(9,i/* r(l(#a*9($
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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1
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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21
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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22
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2"
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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23
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 &A, ,<( 8i+( ar'
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25 +i))(r(*, #(r8i/* /r #i(.$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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2"
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
1 R$ DRATEL W<i9< i8
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23
2"
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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25
F10:l5 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - 9r/88
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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26
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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2
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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2" REDIRECT EAINATION
25 BY R$ TURNER
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34
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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31
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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32
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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33
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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35
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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3 Ulri9<,@8 (+r//7 i* ,<( r(8i+(*9( ,<( >(r8/*al ())(9,8
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13 (l8( .</ li#(+ i* ,<a, (+r//7 .i,< <i7
1" R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
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16 A$ N/$
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25 r$ Ulri9<, ,//0
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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"2
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1 A$ O*l ,ri>8 ,<a, <a#( a* i*,(r*a,i/*al *(x8! 8/ a
2 9/**(9,i/*$ S/ i, <a8 ,/ ( 8/7(.<(r( /,8i+( ,<( 9/*,r /r
3 9/7i*: )r/7 /,8i+( i*,/ ,<( 9/*,r$
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5 A$ Y(8$
6 J$ I) <( )li(8 )r/7 /*( )/r(i:* 9/*,r ,/ ,<( /,<(r! /
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13 9all(+ (+iaWi0i! +/ / r(7(7(r ,<a,
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16 a88/9ia,(+ .i,< ar0 Kar>(l(8 --
1 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
1% J$ -- ,<a, 8(+ (+iaWi0i 8/),.ar(
1 THE COURT H/l+ /*$ L(, 7( 8, r(a+ ,<i8$ H/l+ /*$
24 &;a8('
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22 J$ Ri:<,
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25 A$ I,@8 a* />(* 8/r9($ I, i8 a )r(( >r/:ra7 ,<a, / 9/l+
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 161/178
"3
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1 +/.*l/a+ )r/7 ,<( I*,(r*(,$
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12 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$ L(a+i*:$
13 J$ -- /* .(8i,(8
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15 ,<r/:< ,<i8$
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21 J$ A*/*( /* ,<( I*,(r*(, 9a* +/.*l/a+ i, )/r )r((! ri:<,
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25 A$ Y(8! ,<(r( ar($
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
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"5
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12 J$ D/ / <a#( a* i+(a </. 7a* ,</8a*+8 /r 7illi/*8 /)
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16 J$ D/ / <a#( a* i+(a </. 7a* .(8i,(8 i* ,<( ./rl+ 8( ;H;
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25 8il0r/a+7ar0(,$/r: .(8i,(! i8 ,<a, ri:<,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344
8/9/2019 USA v. Ulbricht transcript, 1/20
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/usa-v-ulbricht-transcript-120 164/178
"6
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1 A$ Y(8$
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" / .(r( ,/ 8(ar9< Sil0 R/a+ /* a r(:lar I*,(r*(, r/.8(r! /
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14 J$ I@7 8</.i*: / .<a,@8 ((* 7ar0(+ a8 G/#(r*7(*, Ex<ii,
11 1"$
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15 J$ W<a, i8 i,
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21 (#i+(*9($
22 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$ ?a*(r$
23 THE COURT Y/ *((+ ,/ la a )/*+a,i/* )/r ,<i8
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25 R$ TURNER Y/r H/*/r! .( <a#( -- i) I 9a*! I .ill
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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"
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1 a,<(*,i9a,( i, *+(r 42 .i,< a +(9lara,i/* )r/7 ar9<i#($/r:!
2 a*+ .( ./*@, <a#( ,/ <a#( a 8i+(ar$ W( <a#( alr(a+ +i8988(+
3 ar9<i#($/r:! a*+ i, 9a7( ,<r/:< ,<( 9r/88 a8 a ,//l ,<a, 9a*
" ar9<i#( r(lial .(8i,(8 /#(r ,i7($
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6 r(7i*+ 78(l) /) ,<a,$ I a7 :/i*: ,/ all/. ,<( +/97(*, )/r
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14 / 0*/. i) ,<(r( i8 a i88( a*+ .( *((+ ,/ 8,ri0( i,$
11 B, / 9a* >r/9((+$
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13 R$ TURNER S/ 9/l+ .( >li8< G/#(r*7(*, Ex<ii,
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16 R$ TURNER T<a*0 /$
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21 .(8i,( /* T/r! ri:<,
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25 J$ I, .a8*@, /* T/r
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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"%
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1 A$ I, .a8 */, /* T/r$
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6 ()/r(! ri:<,
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14 J$ I 8</. / .<a,@8 ((* 7ar0(+ a8 G/#(r*7(*, Ex<ii, 154$
11 A$ OK$
12 J$ D/ / r(9/:*i( ,<i8 W( >a:(
13 A$ Y(8! I +/$
1" J$ W<(r( i8 i, )r/7
15 A$ I,@8 .</$i8 -- a 89r((*8</, /) .</$i8 8(ar9<i*:
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21 &;a8('
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25 r$ E#(r, C/l+ / //7 i* <(r($ =//7 i* 8, /* ,<a, <al)!
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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"
F10+l6 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - r(+ir(9,
1 >l(a8($
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3 A$ Y(8$
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6 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
R$ TURNER Y/r H/*/r! I@7 ,ri*: ,/ :(, +/*( ()/r(
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14 7a <a#( ,/ <a#( <i7 a90 a*.a! 8/ ,a0( /r ,i7($
11 R$ TURNER OK$
12 J$ S/ .<(r( +i+ / )i*+ ,<( I; a++r(88 r(8/l#( a90 ,/
13 A$ I, 9a7( a90 ,/ a 8(r#(r ,<a, .a8 *+(r TA! a* TA 8(r#(r$
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25 */, ,/ l(a+$ Ta0( /r ,i7($
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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54
F10+l6 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - r(+ir(9,
1 BY R$ TURNER
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3 A$ Y(8! I +i+$
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5 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
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14 THE COURT I@7 88,ai*i*: i,$
11 R$ DRATEL OK$
12 BY R$ TURNER
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21 A$ I,@8 <ar+ ,/ 8a$
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23 A$ B(9a8( I ,<i*0 ,<( ,i7( .( :/, i, la,(r /*! i, >r/al
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25 J$ OK$ S/ ,<i8 .a8 a),(r r$ Ulri9<,@8 arr(8, / )i*i8<(+
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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51
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R$ DRATEL H(ar8a$
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S8,ai*(+$ W( ar( :/i*: ,/ <a#( ,/ 9/7( a, i, a
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21 r(#/l#(+ ar/*+ ,<a, a8 .(ll a8 <i8 i,9/i* 8i*(88$
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23 R$ TURNER Y/r H/*/r! ,<i8 all 9a7( i* +ri*:
2" 9r/88$
25 J$ Y/ ,(8,i)i(+ /* 9r/88 <( </8,(+ .(8i,(8! i8 ,<a, ri:<,
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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52
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1 A$ Y(8! <( +i+$
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5 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$ F/*+a,i/*$
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J$ K-a-l--<-/-8-,
% A$ H-/-8-,$
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14 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
11 THE COURT La+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! i) <( +i+ a*+ +i+*@,
12 9/*)ir7 i,! ,<(* i, ./l+*@, ( i* )/r ,<( ,r,<! i, i8 8,
13 )/r .<a, <( 8a. i* ,<( (7ail! a*+ ,<( (7ail 7a <a#( <a+
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25 r$ Kar>(l(8 a*+ ,<(r( .(r( 7a*! 7a* 8(r#(r8 r(:i8,(r(+ ,/
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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53
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3 J$ I) / /.* a 9ar r(*,al 9/7>a*! +/ / /.* a l/, /) 9ar8
" A$ Y/ /.* a l/, /) 9ar8! (8$
5 J$ W<a, +/ / +/ .i,< ,</8( 9ar8 Y/ r(*, ,<(7 /, ,/
6 A$ O,<(r >(/>l($
J$ Ri:<,$ D/ / 9/*,r/l .<(r( ,</8( /,<(r >(/>l( +ri#( .i,<
% ,<( 9ar8
R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
14 THE COURT S8,ai*(+$
11 J$ Wi,< a W( </8,i*: 9/7>a*! .<(* ,<( W( </8,i*: 9/7>a*
12 r(*,8 /, i,8 8(r#(r8 ,/ /,<(r >(/>l(! +/(8 ,<( W( </8,i*:
13 9/7>a* 9/*,r/l .<a, ,<( 98,/7(r8 >, /* ,<(ir .(8i,(8
1" A$ N/! ,<( +/ */,$
15 THE COURT W( ar( :/i*: ,/ (*+ i* 8, a/, ,./
16 7i*,(8 /* ,<( +/,$
1 R$ TURNER I ,<i*0 I 9a* al7/8, :(, ,<r/:<! /r
1% H/*/r$ I ,<i*0 I 9a* :(, ,<r/:<$
1 THE COURT B, +/*@, r8< i, i* ,(r78 /) I@7 */, 8r(
24 ,<a, ,<i8 .i,*(88 -- I +/*@, 0*/. .<(,<(r ,<i8 .i,*(88 .ill (
21 /* /r /)) ,<( 8,a*+! 8/ I 8, .a*, ,/ 7a0( 8r( ,<a, / +/*@,
22 >r/9((+ /* ,<a, a887>,i/*$
23 G/ a<(a+$
2" BY R$ TURNER
25 J$ All ri:<,$ N/.! .<(* a 98,/7(r /) a W( </8,i*: 9/7>a*
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5"
F10+l6 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - r(+ir(9,
1 8(,8 > a .(8i,(! i8 ,<(r( a* ,>( /) i*)/r7a,i/* ,<(
2 98,/7(r <a8 ,/ >r/#i+( i* /r+(r ,/ r(:i8,(r ,<( .(8i,(
3 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
" THE COURT S8,ai*(+ *l(88 / 9a* il+ a
5 )/*+a,i/* )/r ,<a,$
6 J$ D/ / 0*/.
A$ 8, .<a, I <a#( /8(r#(+ ,<r/:< l//0i*: ,<r/:< ar0
% Kar>(l(8@ (7ail8$
R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*! /r H/*/r$
14 J$ L(,@8 a90 /, /) ,<i8 ar(a /) ,<( +/97(*, <(r(! >l(a8(!
11 r$ E#(r,$
12 Y/ ,(8,i)i(+ ()/r( ,<a, / ar( )a7iliar .i,< ,<(
13 .</$i8 +a,aa8(! ri:<,
1" A$ I a7$
15 J$ I8 ,<i8 +a,aa8( r(li(+ /* r(:larl >(/>l( ,/ )i:r(
16 /, .</ .(8i,(8 ar( r(:i8,(r(+ ,/
1 R$ DRATEL O(9,i/*$
1% R$ TURNER I a7 il+i*: a )/*+a,i/*! /r H/*/r$
1 THE COURT I 0*/. , */, ,/ (#(r/+$ Y/ 9a*
24 a80 <i7 i) <( r(li(8 >/* i,$
21 R$ TURNER Sr($
22 J$ I) a >(r8/* -- .(ll! (x98( 7($
23 D/ / r(l >/* .</$i8 i* /r+(r ,/ +(,(r7i*( .</ a
2" .(8i,( i8 r(:i8,(r(+ ,/
25 A$ T<(r( i8 i*)/r7a,i/* / 9/l+ 8( /)) /) ,<a,! (8$
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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55
F10+l6 D(r-Y(:<iaa* - r(+ir(9,
1 J$ I, i8 a >li9l a#ailal( +a,aa8( ,<a, i8 a#ailal( )/r
2 ,<a, >r>/8(
3 A$ Y(8! i, i8$
" THE COURT All ri:<,$ W( ar( :/i*: ,/ (*+ <(r(!
5 r$ Tr*(r$
6 R$ TURNER OK$
THE COURT I 0*/. ,<a, / <a#( 7a+( a #alia*, ())/r,
% ,/ :(, ,<r/:< i,$ B, / ar( :/i*: ,/ <a#( ,/ 9/7( a90
a*/,<(r +a$
14 All ri:<,$ La+i(8 a*+ :(*,l(7(*! I .a*, ,/ ,<a*0 /
11 )/r /r >a,i(*9( .i,< 8 ,/+a$ A*+ I .a*, ,/ r(7i*+ / */,
12 ,/ ,al0 ,/ (a9< /,<(r /r a*/+ (l8( a/, ,<i8 9a8(! a*+ ,/
13 a#/i+ a* 7(*,i/*8 /) ,<i8 9a8( ,<a, / 7a 8(( i* a* *(.8
1" r(>/r,8 /r 7(+ia r(>/r,8 /) a* 0i*+$ A*+ .(@ll 8(( /
15 ,/7/rr/. 7/r*i*:$
16 W(@ll 8,ar, a, 34! I </>(! ri:<, /* ,i7($ T<a*0 /
1 #(r 79<$ G//+ *i:<,$
1% THE CLERK All ri8( a8 ,<( r l(a#(8$
1 &C/*,i*(+ /* *(x, >a:('
24
21
22
23
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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56
F10+l6
1 &r */, >r(8(*,'
2 THE COURT W< +/*@, / :/ a<(a+ a*+ 8,(> +/.*! 8ir$
3 L(,@8 all ( 8(a,(+ <(r($
" &Wi,*(88 */, >r(8(*,'
5 THE COURT N/, 0*/.i*: .<a, ,<(r( .ill ( /* ,<(8(
6 ,/>i98 )/r a* r(9r/88! .<i9< I a7 9/*8i+(ri*: i* li:<, /) all
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% /(9,i/*8 -- )/r i*8,a*9(! i) ,<(r( .(r( r(9r/88! I ./l+ */,
*(9(88aril 9, i, /))$ I +i+*@, .a*, ,/ <a#( / (*+ .i,<
14 ,<i8 .i,*(88 a*+ ,<(* <a#( >r(88r( .<(,<(r /r */, ,/ ri*: <i7
11 a90$ I .a*,(+ ,/ )/r ,<i8 >ar,i9lar .i,*(88! :i#(* ,<(
12 +i))i9l, .( <a#( <a+ .i,< (#(r,<i*: ,/+a! ,/ >r/9((+ a*+
13 l(, i, *)/l+ a8 i, *((+8 ,/ *)/l+$
1" r$ Dra,(l! r$ Tr*(r <a+ 8::(8,(+ (arli(r ,<a, <(
15 i8 a/, ,/ (*+ .i,< ,<i8 .i,*(88$ I <a#( /*(! ,./! ,<r((!
16 )/r! )i#(! 8ix ,/>i98 I ,<i*0 <( <a8 9/#(r(+$ T<a, +/(8*@,
1 7(a* ,<a, / <a#( ,/ 9/#(r all /) ,<(7! , a, ,<i8 >/i*, ar(
1% / ,<i*0i*: /) a* r(9r/88
1 R$ DRATEL Y(8! /r H/*/r$
24 THE COURT A>>r/xi7a,(l </. l/*: +/ / ,<i*0 /
21 .ill ,a0( /* /*( /r 7/r( /) ,</8( ,/>i98
22 R$ DRATEL Y/r H/*/r! l(, 7( 8, l//0 ,<r/:< 7
23 */,(8$
2" THE COURT Y(8$
25 &;a8('
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5
F10+l6
1 R$ DRATEL I ./l+ ,<i*0 ri:<, */. .(@r( a/, 15
2 7i*,(8$
3 THE COURT All ri:<,$ T(rri)i9$ S/ .( /:<, ,/ ,<(*
" >la* /*! i) all :/(8 .(ll i* ,<( 7/r*i*: .(@ll ( 7/#i*: /* ,/
5 /r *(x, .i,*(88! .<i9< .ill! I@7 8r(! 8/7( r(li() ,/ 8 all$
6 I* ,(r78 /) ,/7/rr/.@8 (xa7i*a,i/*! i8 ,<(r( a*,<i*:
,<a, >(/>l( (x>(9, ,/ 9/7( > ,<a, .( /:<, ,/ ( ,<i*0i*:
% a/, ri:<, */. #(r88 <a#i*: ,/ +(al .i,< i, ,/7/rr/. W( */.
0*/. ,<( *a,r( /)! :(*(rall 8>(a0i*:! .<(r( )/l08 ar( :(,,i*:
14 (x/r9i8(+ a*+ */,$
11 R$ TURNER Wi,< r(8>(9, ,/ ,<i8 .i,*(88 /r ,<( *(x,!
12 /r H/*/r
13 THE COURT N/$ Ri:<, */. I a7 8, +(ali*: .i,< ,<i8
1" .i,*(88$ I 8, .a*, ,/ 8(( .<(,<(r ,<(r( i8 8/7(,<i*: ,<a, .(
15 0*/. /) ,<a, i8 :/i*: ,/ 9/7( >! )/r i*8,a*9(! ,<a,@8 :/i*: ,/
16 ( :(,,i*: i*,/ ar(a8 ,<a, .(@ll *((+ ,/ a++r(88$ B(9a8(! i)
1 8/! I .a*, ,/ <a#( a 9<a*9( ,/ ,<i*0 a/, ,<(7 a*+ / )/l08
1% a8 .(ll$
1 R$ TURNER T/ ,<( (x,(*, ,<( +()(*8( .a*,8 ,/
24 r(#i8i, ,<( i88(8 ,<a, .( .(*, /#(r ,/+a i* ,(r78 /) :(,,i*:
21 a90 ,/ ,<( a:(*,@8 (li()8 a/, --
22 THE COURT I .ill l(, <i7 >r(#i(. ,<a,$
23 R$ TURNER -- /* r(+ir(9, --
2" THE COURT T<(r( i8 */,<i*: (l8( ,<a, / ar( :/i*:
25 ,/ ( +/i*: /* /r r(+ir(9, ,<a, / (x>(9, .ill rai8(
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5%
F10+l6
1 >ar,i9lar i88(8
2 R$ TURNER N/, ,<a, I 9a* ,<i*0 /) ri:<, */.$
3 THE COURT All ri:<,$ r$ Dra,(l! ar( ,<(r( ,<i*:8
" .<i9< / (x>(9, .ill rai8( >ar,i9lar i88(8
5 R$ DRATEL O* ,<i8 .i,*(88
6 THE COURT O* ,<i8 .i,*(88 ri:<, */. )/r ,/7/rr/.
7/r*i*:$
% R$ DRATEL N/, +ir(9,l r(la,(+ ,/ ,<( r(+ir(9,$
THE COURT All ri:<,$ OK$ I) a*/+ <a8 a* 9a8(8
14 /* ,<( 8,a,(7(*, r(la,i*: ,/ ,<( 9/7>lai*,! I@7 */, )i*+i*:
11 a*,<i*: ,<a,@8 7>i*: /, a, 7(! , I +/*@, <a#( ,i7( ,/
12 l//0 a, i, 9l/8(l ri:<, */.$ Gi#( i, ,/ 7( ,<( )ir8, ,<i*: i*
13 ,<( 7/r*i*: a*+ I@ll r(a+ i,$
1" I al8/ <a#( :/,,(* a*+ / )/l08 9/l+ >r(87al :(,
15 a 9/> /) ,<( 8(al(+ >/r,i/* /) ,<( ,ra*89ri>,$ I) / .a*, ,/
16 :(, a 9/> /) i, a*+ l//0 a, i, a*+ ,(ll 7( .<(,<(r ,<(r( i8
1 a*,<i*: ,<a, 9/7(8 /, /) i, ,<a, / ,<i*0 .( *((+ ,/ ,al0
1% a/, ,/7/rr/. 7/r*i*:! .( .ill +/ ,<a, a, a8 .(ll$
1 I8 ,<(r( a*,<i*: (l8(! )/l08 N/
24 R$ TURNER N/,<i*: <(r($
21 R$ DRATEL N/! /r H/*/r$
22 THE COURT All ri:<,$ I .ill 8(( / )/l08 ,/7/rr/.
23 7/r*i*:$ W( ar( a+/r*(+$
2" THE CLERK All ri8($
25 &A+/r*(+ ,/ a$7$! W(+*(8+a! a*ar 21! 2415'
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
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5
1 INDE OF EAINATION
2 Exa7i*a,i/* /) ;a:(
3 ARED DER-YEGHIAYAN
" Cr/88 B r$ Dra,(l $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ 61
5 R(+ir(9, B r$ Tr*(r $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ 2
6 GO?ERNENT EHIBITS
Ex<ii, N/$ R(9(i#(+
% 1" $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ "
154 $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ "%
14 DEFENDANT EHIBITS
11 Ex<ii, N/$ R(9(i#(+
12 F $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ 631
13
1"
15
16
1
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1
24
21
22
23
2"
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE;ORTERS! ;$C$
&212' %45-4344