v8 engine differences - robert grinterv8 engine differences with dart engines becoming scarcer, you...

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©Robert Grinter 2017 1 V8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences between the two. The Edward Turner designed 2.5 litre V8 is universally accepted to be one of the great British engines. After Jaguar took over Daimler, they were quick to introduce this engine into the Saloon where it won great acclaim. So much so that popular legend had it that the Daimler Saloon was built for Bank Managers whilst the Jaguar MkII was built for bank robbers! However packaging the V8 into a car designed for a straight six brought its own problems and these, together with the requirement on the Saloon for luxury features such as power steering and air conditioning, have led to a number of changes. The most obvious difference on opening the bonnet is the carburettor air cleaner which on early models of the Saloon (left) is centrally mounted. Later Saloon versions had two smaller pancake filters (right) whereas Darts all have small, mesh-filled filters( below)

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Page 1: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

©RobertGrinter2017 1

V8EngineDifferencesWithDartenginesbecomingscarcer,youmayneedtouseanenginefromaV8Saloonsoitpaystoknowthekeydifferencesbetweenthetwo.TheEdwardTurnerdesigned2.5litreV8isuniversallyacceptedtobeoneofthegreatBritishengines.AfterJaguartookoverDaimler,theywerequicktointroducethisengineintotheSaloonwhereitwongreatacclaim.SomuchsothatpopularlegendhaditthattheDaimlerSaloonwasbuiltforBankManagerswhilsttheJaguarMkIIwasbuiltforbankrobbers!HoweverpackagingtheV8intoacardesignedforastraightsixbroughtitsownproblemsandthese,togetherwiththerequirementontheSaloonforluxuryfeaturessuchaspowersteeringandairconditioning,haveledtoanumberofchanges.

ThemostobviousdifferenceonopeningthebonnetisthecarburettoraircleanerwhichonearlymodelsoftheSaloon(left)iscentrallymounted.LaterSaloonversionshadtwosmallerpancakefilters(right)whereasDartsallhavesmall,mesh-filledfilters(below)

Page 2: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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TheSaloondistributorincludesanelectronicmoduletodrivethetachometer(below,left)whereastheDarthasacabledrive.

DartdistributorsarebecominghardtofindsoifyouareputtingaSaloonengineintoaDart,besureyoucansourcethemechanicaldrive.Thetwosumpsareverydifferent(below,left)asthefrontsectioniscutawayontheSalooninordertoclearthecrossmemberanditsincreaseddepthrequiresalongeroilpumppick-up.Internally,thebafflinginthesumpisalsoslightlydifferentandthedipsticktubeontheDartemergesfromthefrontnearside.Inthepicture(below,right)theDartsumpisontheright.ItshouldbementionedthattherearetwodesignsofDartsumps--theearlieronehasasmaller“U”shapecut-outforthecrankshaftsealthanthelateronewhichisknownastheBigSump!HoweveritispossibletoconvertaSaloonsumpbycuttingandweldingittomatchtheDartprofile.

NotealsohowontheSaloontheoilfillertubeiscrankedtocleartheaircleaneronSaloonsfittedwiththesingle,largeaircleaner.ThetubeisstraightontheDartandonlaterSaloonswhereitisstraightbutalittlelonger.Anyofthe3canbeusedonaDartandperversely,theincreasedlengthofbothtypesofSaloontubemakeforeasiertopping-uponaDart!

Page 3: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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Ifyouarebuyingapartlydismantledengineoronewheretheancillarieshavebeenremoved,itisworthcheckingtheenginenumber(seeBuyingTipsforlocation.)Dartengineshave5-digitdesignationsthatstartwitheitherthenumber8or9whilstSaloonenginesstartwiththenumber7followedbytheletterAorHand4furtherdigits.Lookinginsidetheenginerevealsmoredifferences.TheSaloonhascylinderheadboltswhereastheDarthasmoreconventionalstudswithnuts.ThisallowedthecylinderheadstoberemovedinserviceontheSaloonswithouthavingtoremovetheenginewhichwouldhavebeennecessaryifstudswereused.EvenintheDarthowever,boltsmakeheadremovalmoresimpleandIrecommendalwaysfittingboltswhenaDartengineisdismantled.AnotherfeatureonSaloonsandverylateDartsisthatsoundinsulationisincorporatedonthevalvechestcover(below,right.)

Page 4: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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Ifyoulookcloselyatthetwophotographsoftheoilreservoirbeneaththecamshaftlocation,youcanseethattheDartengine(above,left)hastwolongitudinalwebseithersideofthecambearinghousingswhereastheSaloon(above,right)hasasinglecentralweb.ThiswaspresumablyeasiertocastandhencecheaperthantheoriginalDaimlertreatmentandcanbefoundonverylateDartswhichusedSaloonblocks.

Movingontotherearmainbearing,youcanseethattheDartunit(below,left)hasanoilthrowerarrangementwhiletheSaloonismachinedtoincorporateaseal.Yes,thebearingshellsareatouchworn!

ThepistonsonSaloonswerealsoslightlymodifiedtoincorporateslotsinplaceofdrilledholesontheoilgroovebuttheyareinterchangeable.

Page 5: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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AnotherdifferencebetweentheSaloonandtheDartishowthemainoilgalleryissealedontherearoftheblock.OntheDartitisplugged(below,right)whereastheSaloonissealedwithaboltwhichcanbeseenonthepicturetotheleft.

Enginessealedwithabolthaveabackplatethatincorporatesacutoutforaccess/clearance(below.)Notethatalthoughthestartermotoriscommontobothengines,thestarterlocationsaredifferentandthebackplatesarenotinterchangeable.

Page 6: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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Theexhaustmanifoldsarealsodifferent.ContrasttheSaloonexhaust(below,left)wherethemanifoldsarehandedandsweptaftwiththeDart(right)wherethemanifoldsareinterchangeableandexitamidshipsoftheengine!

AnotherdifferenceisthattheoilfiltermountingontheDartaccommodatesatakeoffforthedirectreadingoilpressuregauge.TheSaloonhasapressuresensormountedontheblockwhichneedstoberemoved(andtheholeplugged)asitwillfoultheenginemountingsonaDart(notealsothedoublepulleyarrangementusedonSaloonswhichispictured(above.)DartexhaustmanifoldsareavailablefromDaimlerpartssuppliersbuttheyareexpensivesofactorthisintoyourbudgetifyouarefittingsSaloonengineintoaDart.ItisalsoworthconsideringthataveryhighproportionofSaloonswereautomaticandthatunlessyouareoneofthefewpeopletoownanautomaticSP250,youwillneedtosourceaflywheelaswellasthediscandpressureplate.Whilstlookingattheflywheel/crankshaftunion,bearinmindthattheDartcrankshafthasadeeperspigotbearinglocationthantheSaloonandsoasalooncrankshaftwillneedtobedrilledsome10mmdeepertoaccommodatetheDart’sfirstmotionshafttoallowyoutofitthegearbox.

Page 7: V8 Engine Differences - Robert GrinterV8 Engine Differences With Dart engines becoming scarcer, you may need to use an engine from a V8 Saloon so it pays to know the key differences

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AnotherdifferenceisthemountingbracketforthealternatoronaSaloon(below,left)andthedynamowhichisnormallyusedonaDart(below,right.)HoweversomeDartsdidleavetheworkswithalternatorsfitted--Policecarsforexample.IfyouareplanningtouseanalternatorthentheSaloonbracketmaybeusablebutmayrequiresomemetalremovalinordertoclearthewaterrailswhich,togetherwiththewaterpumphousing,aredifferentonthetwoengines.Alternatively,theoriginalDartdynamobracketcaneasilybefettledtoaccommodatea3pointmountedalternator.

FurtherpointsofdifferencearetheenginemountingbracketswhicharemuchlargerontheSaloonandarenotinterchangeablewiththeDart.MinordifferencesarethetreatmentofthewateroutletontheinletmanifoldwhicharemetaltubingontheSaloonversustherubberelbowusedonDartsandtheSalooninletmanifoldincorporatesavacuumtakeoffpointwhichcanbeusefulifyouarefittingabrakeservotoaDart.

Thethrottlelinkagearrangementalsoincorporatesprovisionforkick-downonSaloons.Alesswell-knownfactisthattheSaloonandDart,whilstbothhaving

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SUHD6carburettors,havedifferentneedlesandpistondampingsprings.TheDarthasAUD1359TSneedlesandAUC1167springswhilstthecorrespondingpartnumbersfortheSaloonareAUD1469TZandAUC4387.ThefuelpipestothecarburettorsonSaloonsincorporateTpiecesandcompressionolivesonthefloatchamberinletswhereasDartsusestraightpipessecuredbyclamps.Finally,saloonsdestinedfortheAustrianmarketwereof2498cc(calledthe2.4)thiswasachievedbyreducingtheboreto2.97”(75.43)from3”(76.2mm)SUMMARYTofitaSaloonengineinaDart,youneedtousethefollowingDartcomponents:•Sump(theSaloonsumpwillseriouslyreducegroundclearance.)•OilpumpdriveandoilpumphousinginordertousetheDartoilpressuregauge•Mechanicaltachometerdriveonthedistributor•Exhaustmanifolds,enginemountingbrackets•Backplate,flywheel&clutchassembly•Frontpulley,waterrailandpumphousing•Dynamomount•Carburettorneedles,pistondamperspringsandaircleaners.YouwillalsoneedtodrillthespigotbearinglocationontheSalooncrankshaftinordertoaccommodatetheDart’sfirstmotionshaft,drillaholethroughtheDartbackplatetocleartheoilgallerysealingboltandplugtheoilpressuresensorlocation.Ifallthisseemsalittletoomuchlikehardwork,Iwillbepleasedtoundertaketheconversiononyourbehalfandhaveagoodstockofenginesandancillaryparts!