virginia governor debate transcript

7/29/2019 Virginia governor debate transcript

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debate-transcript.doc

NBC NEWS WASHINGTON

"VIRGINIA GOVERNOR DEBATE"

INTERVIEW WITH TERRY MCAULIFFE & KEN CUCCINELLI

CORRESPONDENT: CHUCK TODD

PRODUCER: EDE JERMIN

MEDIA ID: LIVE FEED

19:00:00:00 (OFF-MIC CONVERSATION)

CHUCK TODD:

19:02:39:00 Mr. McAuliffe, by virtue of an earlier coin toss,

you will go first with your two minute opening

statement. Go ahead.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:02:45:00 Well, thank you, Chuck. And thank you to the

Fairfax Chamber for hostin' us tonight and to all

Virginians, who are watching at home. And I

would like to recognize my wife Dorothy who is

here with me tonight. For the last two decades,

we have been raising our five children here in

Fairfax County. The choice in this race is

simple, which candidate is going to govern from

the mainstream, work with both parties, and focus

on those economic issues that Virginians are


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MEDIA ID: LIVE FEED PG.2


concerned about.

19:03:13:00 During this campaign, I have proposed commonsense

solutions on issues of education, transportation,

and workforce development. I've also been proud

to earn the support of so many prominent

Republicans, many of whom have never supported a

Democrat before. The bipartisan coalition that

we have assembled during this campaign reflects

the approach that I would take as governor,

following in the successful model of Mark Warner.

19:03:41:00 Just a few weeks ago, my opponent changed his

campaign staff and his tactics. Probably because

he was concerned that a number of Republicans

were no longer supporting his campaign. The

result has been a sharp increase in the most

personal of attacks. They've been called

deceitful and false by the press.

19:04:00:00 So I expect more of those kinds of attacks

tonight. But what Virginians do expect from us


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is to hear how we are going to bring folks

together in Richmond. With the Department of

Defense drawing down its overall spending and now

with the sequestration, the next governor will

face serious economic headwinds. We cannot

afford the next four years in Richmond to be like

the last four in Washington.

19:04:26:00 Gridlock, driven by the Tea Party, is once again

risking a government shutdown that would be

devastating to the Virginia economy. In

Virginia, we have a strong record of working

together, Democrats and Republicans. And with

the challenges that lie ahead, we must embrace

the tradition of mainstream solutions. We need

those solutions now more than ever.

CHUCK TODD:

19:04:50:00 Thank you.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:04:51:00 And that is what I look forward to talking with

you tonight.


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CHUCK TODD:

19:04:53:00 Thank-- thank you, Mr. McAuliffe. Mr.

Cuccinelli, your opening statement.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:04:56:00 Well, I want to thank the Chamber and NBC 4 for

hosting us today, Chuck and the panel for their

participation, and Terry for being here, as well.

It's nice to be right near in the backyard of

where I grew up. I'm the only candidate in this

race with a lifetime of fighting for Virginians,

whether it's preventing sexual assault, helping

the homeless, or working to help those suffering

from mental illness, a passion of mine for more

than a decade and a half.

19:05:23:00 I've also served in state government for over 10

years. And I know how it works. I'm the only

candidate in this race who won't need on-the-job

training if you elect me your governor this year.

In this campaign, my opponent has spent a lot of

time telling you why you shouldn't vote for me

for governor, but not much time welling-- telling


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you why you should vote for him.

19:05:44:00 You may not always agree with me in this race,

but you'll always know where I stand and why I

hold the positions that I do. When it comes to

economic competitiveness, job creation, and

higher education, I know we can all work together

to make Virginia a better place to live with

lasting results. But it takes a governor who

will fight for those issues and not for their own

self-interest.

19:06:09:00 Where does my fight come from? Well, my Italian

grandfather didn't have more than a sixth grade

education. He was one of the toughest, hardest-

working folks I've ever known, whether it was as

a welder or in a scrapyard where he worked for

years, or as a bare knuckle boxer during The

Depression, probably his toughest job of all. He

was proud to work to support his family.

19:06:31:00 And today, ordinary folks all over Virginia, like


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my grandfather, want nothing more than to share

in the dignity of work. And I have a plan

that'll create 58,000 new jobs here in Virginia.

Creating jobs, fighting for the middleclass, and

fighting for a good education in our children are

priorities of my campaign and will be for my

governorship. I've proposed detailed policy

ideas for each. And I'll begin on day one

fighting to put those ideas into action--

CHUCK TODD:

19:06:59:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:06:59:00 --if you'll elect me on November 5th.

CHUCK TODD:

19:07:01:00 All right, you guys were pretty good there. Only

about five seconds over for both of you. (LAUGH)

I'm pleading, we're all pleading with you

tonight, that that was your talking points and--

and-- and hit us-- and-- and try to answer our

questions. So let me begin. It's gonna be a

similar question to both of you. But Mr.

McAuliffe, you get the first question.


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19:07:17:00 Nearly $20 million's been spent on TV ads in this

race. 75% of 'em, we did the calculation, have

been negative. This is both of you. I want each

of you to respond to the stereotype you've been

tryin' to create-- about the other. Mr.

McAuliffe, the stereotype of you is that you're

an operator, cheerleader more than a legislator

or governor. That you don't have the relevant

experience to be governor. And that you're a man

in a hurry, who's willing to use political

connections, sometimes in very high places, to

take shortcuts. Your response?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:07:48:00 I'm a young man who grew up in-- Syracuse, New

York. I started my first business when I was 14

years old, 'cause I had to help pay for college.

I've been involved in a number of businesses

since that time, chairman of a bank by the age of

30, built thousands of homes. I've been involved

in a wide variety of different businesses. I

want to bring that business approach, that


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business experience. I think it's important to

have someone in the governor's office who has

those business experience, understands the ups

and downs of businesses, understands that risk is

inherent in our economy, and is willing to put

everything in to make sure we grow and diversify

our economy.

19:08:25:00 With sequestration, with the budget cuts that we

have seen in the Department of Defense, with $500

billion, the stimulus is over, the next

governor's real challenge is how do you grow and

diversify our businesses? How do we create new

economic activity? Dorothy and I would love to

have our five children stay in Virginia. But in

order to stay in Virginia, we need to have those

jobs of the 21st century, cyber security,

nanotechnology, bio life sciences. Those are

what we need to do to grow our economy.

19:08:53:00 Now we have had a lot of different ads. And

there are differences between the two of us. My


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opponent has spent most of his career on a social

ideological agenda. He has-- pushed personhood

legislation which would outlaw most forms of

contraception, would make the pill illegal in

Virginia. He bullied the Board of Health that

would shut down the woman's health centers.

Women are 50% of the workforce of the United

States of America. You cannot grow an economy by

putting walls up around Virgin--

CHUCK TODD:

19:09:19:00 I'm gonna stop you there. Mr. Cuccinelli, you

have 90 seconds to respond.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:09:22:00 Thank you. (THROAT CLEARS) Well, in this race--

of course, we've got our ads on television. I'd

point you to the kinds of ads we've been running.

Right now you all can see running the ad-- about

a case that I'm very proud of. One about Thomas

Haynesworth. Thomas Haynesworth holds the record

in Virginia for serving more time in prison while

innocent than anyone in the history of the

Commonwealth.


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19:09:47:00 And he's out today on a 6-4 vote of our Court of

Appeals, because I took that case and joined his

side. And we won 6-4, 5-5 is a loss. You know,

that's the kind of story we're tryin' to tell,

Chuck, in this race. That's a story I'm very

proud of. I think there are reasons not to vote

for Mr. McAuliffe for governor. We make those--

that case as well.

19:10:10:00 But we have a positive record to look back on in

my case. We've done a great job in the Attorney

General's Office, fighting health care fraud,

internet predators. We've worked even with

Capital One, as we sit here on some justice

issues, justice access issues. Those are things

near and dear to my heart. That's where we

focused in this race.

19:10:29:00 I'm the only candidate who's gotten both of the

major business endorsements so far in this race,

from the Northern Virginia Technology Council's


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tech pack. And just this week from Virginia's

small businesses, the N.F.I.B.-- has endorsed me,

as well, with their 5,500 small business members.

They obviously think that my preparation and my

plans for growing the economy here in Virginia is

best not just for them, but to make Virginia a

better place--

CHUCK TODD:

19:10:54:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:10:55:00 --to live and raise a family.

CHUCK TODD:

19:10:56:00 Mr. McAuliffe, as you get your-- 60 seconds to

respond-- on here, I want you to deal with this

issue. You-- you one time said to the New York

Times, "I've met all of my business contacts

through politics. It's all interrelated." And

we've looked at it. And a lot of it is political

ties. After all the ethical woes going on right

now in Richmond with the current governor, why

shouldn't that give the voters pause that there's

gonna be some-- ethical, questionable deals with


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too many political figures in your-- in your

life?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:11:22:00 Well, I've spent a lot of part of my life--

volunteerin' in politics. I'm committed,

passionate. As I say, I started my first

business at a very young age, was successful in

business. I want to bring that business

experience. Met a lot-- awful lot of folks. But

listen, I have-- stand by everything that I have

done in my life. I'm very proud of my

accomplishments.

19:11:40:00 As I say, Dorothy and I decided to move to

Virginia about 21 years ago, because we knew this

was the best place that we could raise our

family. But there's a difference when the

attorney general who's in the middle of the Star

Scientific scandal. I mean, the same gentleman

who gave all the gifts to the governor, gave my

opponent $18,000 worth of gifts. Star

Scientific, they owe Virginia about $1.7 million.


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19:12:03:00 And instead of takin' him to court, Ken was bein'

taken to trips to New York City. He was-- got a

$1,500 turkey dinner. I said, "That's a lot of

turkey." And he was (UNINTEL) his house,

(UNINTEL) Mountlake house. We were owed-- the

taxpayers of Virginia were owed that money. And

instead of goin' and collectin' what was our

money, my opponent was actually taking gifts from

this gentleman--

CHUCK TODD:

19:12:23:00 All right.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:12:23:00 --and he was buyin' stock and he wasn't

disclosin' it. That's--

19:12:26:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:12:26:00 We're gonna get-- we're gonna-- we're gonna get

to that. Mr. Cuccinelli, I want to-- go-- a 90-

second question to you. The-- the-- the second

official question here. This-- talk about the

stereotype that's been painted of you. That


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you'll use your governorship to push a social

agenda on abortion, gay rights, even-- on climate

change. That you would be a governor simply for

conservatives. And that you will not-- consider

those who are liberals or moderates in you

governing. Your response to this stereotype--

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:12:50:00 Sure--

CHUCK TODD:

19:12:50:00 --that's been painted?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:12:52:00 I-- I think that one of the best responses to

this is the broad array of support that we're

getting from Democrats, Independents, and

bipartisan groups like the Northern Virginia

Technology Council's Tech PAC up here in Northern

Virginia, the small businesses across Virginia,

and the National Federation of Independent

Businesses, the Farm Bureau, the police.

19:13:09:00 We're getting a broad array of support across

Virginia, because I've put forward well-thought-


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out plans that start with an understanding of how

Virginia government works. And that we can use

those plans forward, because people can look at

my record and see that what I campaign on is what

I pursue.

19:13:28:00 And as attorney general, right here in Fairfax

County, fighting back against overreaching

regulations on a bipartisan basis with the

Fairfax Board, we saved Fairfax County taxpayers

and Virginia taxpayers about $250 million. Look,

I believe-- I have some basic beliefs that are

fundamental to me. But overwhelming proportion

of my time as attorney general has been spent

moving Virginia forward economically and

protecting liberty and our constitution.

19:13:56:00 That's something you can continue to expect from

me as your next governor. You know, the

comparison here is someone who has told the New

York Times, you know, "You help me, I help you.

That's politics," talking about a case where he


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was an unindicted coconspirator in a teamsters

election money laundering case. I mean, if-- if

Terry's elected governor. We're gonna have to

change the state motto from "Sic Semper Tyrannis"

to "Quid Pro Quo." And just today in the

Washington Post, they have an article-- they have

an article about how his higher ed policy changed

on a dime when he got certain support. Some of

them--

CHUCK TODD:

19:14:35:00 All right--

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:14:36:00 --Republican. You know, that kind of trading off

without thinking through the policies in--

particularly in an area that's gonna make

colleges less available to Virginians--

19:14:45:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:14:45:00 Thank you, Mr.-- we had a bit of an error there.

I know that you followed the rules that were--

you followed the time that was on your table

there. But-- yeah, you actually got a little


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more time. So you'll get about 95 seconds-- Mr.

McAuliffe to respond.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:14:56:00 My opponent's been the attorney general. He's

run on jobs and transportation when he runs for

office. He gets into office. And he runs on and

serves with an ideological agenda. Let it be

women's health centers, where he bullied the

Board of Health to shut him down. He sponsored

personhood legislation that would outlaw most

forms of contraception, would make the pill

illegal.

19:15:15:00 He's referred to gay Virginians as "self-

destructive and soulless human beings." He was

one of only three attorney generals when the

Violence Against Women Act was being reauthorized

in the United States Congress. 47 attorney

generals signed a letter, violence against women,

not controversial. He is one of three who

refused to sign it. It has been a pattern.


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19:15:39:00 And as it relates to his attack on gay

Virginians, when he was attorney general, he sent

a letter to every college and university sayin'

they could provide no protections against

discrimination based upon sexual orientation

against professors and students. What happened?

Northrop Grumman, which was about to move their

national headquarters to Virginia, it was between

Maryland and Virginia, obviously the employees

squawked at that.

19:16:04:00 And what happened? Governor Bob McDonald had to

interject himself to stop his attorney general

and save that deal. 300 high payin' jobs were

right up the street from where we are today.

There are consequences to this mean-spirit attack

on women's health, on gay Virginians. If we're

gonna build a new economy in Virginia, we're

gonna do it by bringing everyone together.

CHUCK TODD:

19:16:28:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, as you-- re-- prepare your 60-

second response to Mr. McAuliffe, I was hopin'


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you would also respond to what-- the Republican

Lieutenant Governor Bill Bolling said about you

and the entire Republican ticket. He said, "It's

the most ideologically driven ticket that the GOP

has ever put forth." And he is worried that it's

pushing away mainstream voters. What do you say?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:16:48:00 Well, until he stepped out of my race-- by a lot

of measures, he's more conservative than I am.

So I-- I think that-- he-- he had some comments

based on not being in this race. The Northrop

Grumman charge is false. The soulless comment is

offensively false. The kind of personal attacks

that Terry opened up his remarks with today by

saying this has been going on are coming from

Terry McAuliffe.

19:17:16:00 I mean, you all are seeing the ads. It's

overwhelmingly negative. It is unbelievably

false. And no one up here, no one up here has

done more to protect women, which is a focus of

his attacks, than I have. Whether it was back


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when I was an engineering student at UVA and a

friend of mine was sexually assaulted, my

response was to start a new organization that's

still functioning there to protect young women at

UVA. And it was the first of its kind in the

country. We run multiple domestic violence

programs in the Attorney General's Office. And

we started from scratch fighting human

trafficking.

CHUCK TODD:

19:17:51:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:17:50:00 And we've done a great job of it.

CHUCK TODD:

19:17:52:00 Ben Pershing has the next question for Mr.

McAuliffe.

BEN PERSHING:

19:17:54:00 Mr. McAuliffe, you proposed spending more money

on teacher salaries, on pre-K education, on

community colleges. Now we haven't heard quite

enough specifics to put an exact price tag on it.

But we're wondering how exactly would you pay for


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that, especially if the General Assembly doesn't

approve Medicaid expansion?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:18:11:00 Very important question. And what I've said is

responsible budgeting. First of all, when I'm

governor, we're gonna look at the efficiencies we

can bring to the government. And then we're

gonna work together to get that Medicaid

expansion. If we don't get the Medicaid

expansion, we can't bring in the efficiencies,

then I agree with you. There's not money to be

spent.

19:18:26:00 So I think it's prudent budgeting first to

determine how much money you have. Then when you

have it, then you can apply it to your

priorities. And this is quite a difference. My

opponent has proposed a $1.4 billion tax cut per

year. He doesn't say how he'd pay for it. Just

the other day, his lieutenant governor said that

E.W. Jackson and Ken Cuccinelli want to get rid

of the corporate income tax in Virginia.


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19:18:51:00 Well, let me tell you what would happen to our

budget. You will see hundreds of millions of

dollars come out of education. You could see

thousands of teachers bein' laid off. At a time

that we need to compete on a global basis. As I

talked about cyber security and all these very

important new businesses, we're not gonna be able

to do that, because money will come out of

education.

19:19:12:00 It's important for me to have the Medicaid

expansion. And when I talk about my budget, I

say it's important to figure out how much money

you have. And then you prioritize and put the

money in. But his plan, $1.4 billion a year,

doesn't say how he'd pay for it. That's $6

billion over the course of the next four years.

Vince Callahan, the former Republican chairman of

the House of Appropriations Committee, said it

would put a gigantic hole in our budget. The

idea that you could cut $6 billion out of the


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budget, get rid of the corporate income tax, not

take the Medicaid expansion. He didn't want the

transportation $6 billion--

CHUCK TODD:

19:19:44:00 Time's up. Thank you, Mr. McAuliffe.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:19:44:00 --it's like me saying I came here on a unicorn.

There's just--

19:19:47:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:19:47:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, you got 90 seconds to respond.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:19:50:00 Well, it's hard to find inefficiencies in a

government you don't understand. And Terry

McAuliffe doesn't know how Virginia government

works. He doesn't understand the issues related

to Virginia government. He can talk at this

topline level like anybody could if they read a

few talking points. But he doesn't know how

Virginia government works.

19:20:10:00 This came out in the NVCC Tech PAC interviews.


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And it wouldn't have if he didn't try to bully

them out of their endorsement. But he did. And

so there was reporting on it. And people noted

that I understood the issues and he didn't. I

want some the serious candidate when it came to

the subject matters that mattered to them. And

Terry wasn't.

19:20:29:00 If you dont start with that fundamental baseline

knowledge, you don't have an easy time finding

inefficiencies. Folks, governor is not a good

entry-level job. But that's what it would be for

Terry. And I already know what works well. And

there are things that work very well in Virginia

government. And there's plenty of 'em. But

there are areas where we need to do much, much

better.

19:20:52:00 Now I would point to Medicaid. Not the

expansion, Medicaid itself. One of the biggest

parts of our budget. We're one of the best

health care fraud fighting-- offices in the whole


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country is my office. I've learned an awful lot

about how Medicaid works and doesn't. And we can

do a whole lot better, just to talk about one

area, to make it more efficient, to make it serve

Virginia's poor better than it does today. But

I'm the only one prepared to do that and who has

a plan--

CHUCK TODD:

19:21:21:00 Okay, that's time.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:21:22:00 --that balances the budget.

CHUCK TODD:

19:21:23:00 When-- when you get your six-second response, Mr.

McAuliffe, you didn't give us a price tag. Why

can't you-- you've been runnin' for governor for

four years. Why can't you give us a price tag on

what you want to-- what spending you want to

expand? What's the price tag?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:21:32:00 Well, I'll-- I'll tell you what I'd love to spend

it on. But-- first of all, I-- I want pre-K,

early childhood development. I think that's very


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important. I talk about what we need to do on

teacher pay. We need accountability. I've

called for a total reform of the SOLs. They

dont work in their present form. We dont have

accountability.

19:21:48:00 Our students are being taught to memorize.

Teachers are being taught to take tests and how

to give tests. That's-- that's not right.

That's not how you build the cognitive mind,

creative reasoning. We need to be involved in

the process early to make sure that we have

progress-based data, not these memorization

tests.

19:22:05:00 I talk about the community colleges. We need to

invest. But Chuck, the key is going to be the

Medicaid expansion. I have said this. My

opponent doesn't want it. I want it. And it's

bipartisan. The Fairfax Chamber. There's Jim

Corcoran in the front row. The Fairfax Chamber

supports the Medicaid expansion. The Virginia


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Chamber of Commerce supports the Medicaid

expansion. So does Lieutenant Governor Bill

Bolling. This is bipartisan mainstream. We are

gonna bring back to Virginia, over the course of

the next seven years, $21 billion of our money

that we're payin' in. Why would we not bring

that back--

19:22:34:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:22:34:00 Okay, so-- so you don't have a price tag?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:22:36:00 --and it will create-- wait, let me finish. This

Medicaid's very important.

CHUCK TODD:

19:22:39:00 I know, I know. We're-- we're-- time's up.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:22:39:00 33,000 new jobs created, Chuck. This is so

important for Virginia--

CHUCK TODD:

19:22:42:00 I-- I just want to clarify, no price tag?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:22:45:00 It's a priority. What--


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CHUCK TODD:

19:22:46:00 There's no-- there's no cost to it. You don't

have a number?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:22:47:00 This is why it's important. Determine first how

much you have. Then you can do it to your

priorities.

CHUCK TODD:

19:22:51:00 All right, the next question, Aaron Gilchrist

for-- Mr. Cuccinelli.

AARON GILCHRIST:

19:22:54:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, as has been mentioned, your

economic plan cuts taxes by $1.4 billion, when

it's fully implemented. And you propose creating

a commission to find ways to pay for the big tax

cut. How do you respond to Virginians who say,

"I'm not voting for a gov-- I'm voting for a

governor, I'm not voting for a commission"?

Isn't leadership about providing some specifics,

in this case, on tax breaks and loopholes that

would go away?


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KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:23:19:00 Yes. My tax relief plan was designed to spur job

growth and to-- more job creation-- put more

money in the hands of our businesses, so they can

reinvest it, and in our fam-- in our family's

budget. It's been analyzed and found to grow

about 58,000 jobs if we can fully implement it.

It'll re-- it'll include lowering the personal

income tax to 5%, the business income tax to 4%.

And by the way, I would note there, North

Carolina two months ago passed a package where

their business income tax will be half of ours if

we don't act.

19:23:54:00 And even if we achieve the goals I've set out of

getting down to 4%, they will still get under us

if they meet their revenue estimates. My friend,

Doug Gansler, on the other side of the river just

announced for governor in Maryland, is talking

about the fact that Virginia's eating Maryland

alive in this front and that they need to bring

their taxes down to compete with us.


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19:24:14:00 We need to compete and do it effectively. I'll

eliminate about 15% of corporate loopholes and

tax breaks that don't work as well as the other

85%. And we'll also cap growth and spending at

about three and a half percent to pay for this

package. This isn't the federal government. We

dont print money. So both sides of the ledger

have to match. The Washington Post gave my

opponent three Pinocchios for the statement you

heard tonight of "He has no way to pay for it."

Aaron, we've put a process in place that will

accomplish the financial goals we need to to do

the tax cuts. And if we don't get the cuts--

CHUCK TODD:

19:24:52:00 Thank you, sir.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:24:52:00 --we don't get to do the taxes.

CHUCK TODD:

19:24:53:00 90 seconds, Mr. McAuliffe.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:24:56:00 If you take the attorney general's plan, Virginia


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will be in financial ruin. He did not-- he did

not support the governor on the transportation,

the bipartisan transportation bill. I was all

in, $6 billion we're gonna be able now to spend

on transportation. When everybody drove in here

to this beautiful hall, you went under l--

underneath the new Silver Line, which my opponent

said-- he was the only statewide official to come

out against it. And he said he would actually

kill it after it was halfway completed.

19:25:21:00 I talk about education. This is so important.

We need to invest in education. His tax plan

takes $6 billion out of the budget over the

course of the next four years. He and E.W.

Jackson believe we should also get rid of the

corporate income tax. He doesn't want the

Medicaid expansion. He's called for the end of

the Department of Education.

19:25:41:00 We cannot grow a 21st century. We cannot be

those global leaders. We need to replace with


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sequestration, we've all seen the numbers. We

know what his tax plan would do to the local

communities. Sharon Bolivo's (PH) right here in

the front row. What it would mean to Fairfax

County to be losing this revenue. What it would

mean to Sharon Bolivo and Fairfax County and the

loss of teachers at a time we should be investing

in our teachers, investing in those STEM courses,

science, technology, engineering, and math. You

can't do that. His plan literally would force us

to lay off thousands of teachers. As I say,

Vince Callahan, the former chairman of the House

Republican Appropriations Committee came out and

said it would put a hole in our budget. Senator

Mark Warner came out the other day.

CHUCK TODD:

19:26:26:00 All right. M-- Mr. Cuccinelli, b-- as you

prepare your 60-second response, you just said

loopholes. We all hear that. We don't know what

that is. It sounds like you're afraid to tell us

what you're thinking about cutting, because it's

the-- two months before the election.


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KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:26:40:00 Chuck, what we're gonna do with the-- with the

loopholes and exemptions is r-- rank 'em. We all

know what they are. They've all been identified.

CHUCK TODD:

19:26:47:00 What are they?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:26:48:00 But-- but-- the-- well, there's-- there's

literally scores of them. And the-- the standard

of eliminating one is what's critical here. If

all we're doing is giving money to a business

interest, that's not something that's working for

the people paying for it, which is the taxpayers

of Virginia.

19:27:05:00 If instead, out of that tax credit, we get other

economic benefits that return to the people,

Virginia's people, paying for it, that's a tax

credit to keep. Those are the ones that we want

to grow our economy. But on a bipartisan basis.

We've got to be able to find at least a sixth of

them, about 15%, that dont perform, that don't


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meet that standard. That's all we have to do to

get our 58,000 job-creating tax plan-- put in

effect. I'm the only candidate with a plan to

grow jobs, other than to say the word "jobs"

repeatedly.

CHUCK TODD:

19:27:43:00 Julie Kerry has the next question for Mr.

McAuliffe.

JULIE KERRY:

19:27:45:00 Well, the tragic shooting at the Navy Yard has

once again cast a spotlight on gun laws. Mr.

McAuliffe, as part of your plan to strengthen

Virginia's cities, you say you support universal

background checks, limiting the size of magazine,

a return to the one-gun a month purchase rule.

But missing from that list is and assault weapons

ban, something you said as recently as December

of 2012 that you supported. So I have a two-part

question. First, have you changed your mind

about an assault weapons ban? And secondly, how

big a priority would you make it as governor to

change Virginia's gun laws?


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TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:28:16:00 I haven't changed my mind. It's a very pertinent

question for tonight. Obviously, after the

tragedy we just had at the Navy Yard-- the

tragedy we had in Virginia, Virginia Tech,

Aurora, Newtown, Connecticut, as a father and as

a husband, I can speak for everybody in this

audience. When we drop our children off at

school and we dropped our loved ones off at work,

we want to know that they're gonna be safe, that

our communities are safe. It is so important.

19:28:50:00 That's why I'm for responsible gun ownership. I

have called for universal background checks. My

opponent doesn't support that. I'm a strong

supporter of the Second Amendment. I'm a hunter.

I own guns. I've gone through background checks.

They take just a couple minutes. We have a

gigantic loophole in Virginia. You can buy guns

through mail order. You can go to these gun show

loopholes.


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19:29:14:00 There are certain individuals who just should not

own a gun. There are individuals that have

mental illness. I think this is such a critical

issue for us. How many people have to be killed

till we wake up to have sensible gun ownership?

Now I was very dismayed with the United States

Senate this year. 91% of Americans support

universal background checks. And the Senate

refused to even bring it up for a vote. As

governor, I'm gonna push. Most importantly, we

need universal background checks for everyone--

CHUCK TODD:

19:29:51:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, could--

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:29:51:00 --to keep our loved ones safe.

CHUCK TODD:

19:29:51:00 --you-- could you address in your-- 90 seconds

why all of the-- recommendations from the

Virginia Tech review haven't been implemented,

including background checks?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:30:01:00 Of course, the-- tragedy at Virginia Tech led us


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to look at a lot of things. And for those of you

who know me, you know that I have been deeply

involved in working with people suffering from

mental illness for years. And-- one of the

common themes in the most public tragedies is

that we're dealing with people who suffer from

mental illness.

19:30:22:00 I would tell you, though, that the more common

tragedy in mental illness is day to day, one

person at a time, that you dont read about in

the paper. It's a suicide. It's a family

struggling and they're at their wits' end to try

and get one of their family members on a path to

recovery and-- sustainability. We have not

found-- gun control to-- to effect that, to be

effective in that area.

19:30:51:00 What we've done in Virginia is we have become the

number one state per capita in screening out

people with mental illness from gun purchases.

We're the f-- we're the best state at that in the


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country. We're also the number one state that

I'm aware of, The Department of Justice doesn't

keep data on all of them-- in terms of

prosecuting people who attempt to buy guns

illegally.

19:31:11:00 That is the best way to enforce our gun laws is

to be aggressive and proactive. I'm running

against the only F-rated candidate from the--

N.R.A., the only one of all six running

statewide. I will support the Second Amendment.

It deserves support-- as does our whole

constitution. But I will continue to focus on

where I believe the main source of this problem

is. And that is resolving mental health issues.

CHUCK TODD:

19:31:35:00 All right. Mr. McAuliffe, you've got 60.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:31:38:00 He absolutely said nothing with that response as

it relates to gun control. Obviously, we both

believe in investing in-- in-- in mental illness,

mental health, and what we need to do. I can


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tell you this, without the Medicaid expansion

money, there's not a penny for any new investment

in mental health, not a penny. With his tax plan

that would take all this money out of our budget,

there's not a penny.

19:31:58:00 So it's really just talk. Now whatever rating I

may get from the N.R.A., I'm gonna stand here and

tell you today that as governor, I want to make

sure that every one of our citizens in the

Commonwealth of Virginia are safe. Everyone of

our children, when they go into a classroom,

should know that they are safe. When any one of

our loved ones goes into work, what happened at

the Navy Yard the other day is continued pattern

of what's going on. We need to eliminate guns

from the folks who should not own guns. There

are many reasons why individuals who are

dangerous, who have a issue of mental hellness--

mental illness. And a background check, I've

done it, it takes two, three, four minutes.


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CHUCK TODD:

19:32:39:00 Thank you there. We're gonna do a pause here for

a brief commercial break. We're gonna be right

back with many more questions for the candidates

of the governor-- for governor of Virginia. And

after the debate, you can join me and News 4

Northern Virginia Bureau Chief Julie Kerry for a

special Google Hangout on NBCWashington.com.

We'll be right back. (APPLAUSE)

19:32:58:00 (COMMERCIAL BREAK NOT TRANSCRIBED)

CHUCK TODD:

19:35:29:00 (APPLAUSE) And we are back, live here in McLean

with the two candidates for governor of Virginia,

Terry McAuliffe and Ken Cuccinelli. Mr.--

Cuccinelli and Mr. McAuliffe, this next question,

you're both gonna get 90 seconds to respond. It

has to do with the-- the stuff that's goin' acr--

on across the Potomac. Just a few miles away,

the possibility of a government shutdown, which

would affect thousands of Virginians as you both

know.


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19:35:49:00 So a quick 90 seconds, both of you, on this. Mr.

Cuccinelli, I want you to go first. Do you

support the-- Ted Cruz's effort here to use any

means necessary to prevent the implementation of

the president's health care law? And Mr.

McAuliffe, do you think President Obama has shown

the right leadership to resolve this stalemate?

Mr. Cuccinelli, you first.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:36:08:00 Well, first of all-- I'm a Northern Virginian.

I've lived up here my whole life. None of us

want to see a government shutdown. We don't want

to see that across the river. It wouldn't be

good for America. We're already seeing in the

Virginia economy the problems associated with the

uncertainty of federal budgeting as it is. Both

in Northern Virginia and in Southeastern Virginia

in the Hampton Roads area.

19:36:29:00 And that's causing all sorts of problems here in

Virginia. But since I'm running for governor,

what I want to tell you is that this is not the


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kind of thing that you'd see happen in a

Cuccinelli governorship, as we put together a

Virginia budget. But 10 days ago-- 11 days ago,

last weekend, my opponent repeatedly said that he

wouldn't sign a Virginia budget that didn't have

the Medicaid expansion in it.

19:36:52:00 And you've heard him here tonight talk over and

over and over about how this is basically his

funding mechanism for everything he wants to do.

So it's clear he's very committed to the Medicaid

expansion. I understand that. But it is not the

be all and end all of Virginia budgets,

particularly if you're willing to shut down

Virginia government just to get the Medicaid

expansion, which he said repeatedly he won't sign

a budget without Medicaid expansion in it.

19:37:18:00 Now I disagree with him on Medicaid expansion.

But this is not an appropriate tactic for

Virginia. This is a Washington tactic. And if

you like the way Washington works, you will like


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a Governor McAuliffe. If you don't think

Washington works right, if you think it's

dysfunctional, as I do, then I'm your candidate

in this race.

CHUCK TODD:

19:37:37:00 All right, M-- Mr. McAuliffe, before you answer,

you-- you didn't-- answer the Ted Cruz portion

here. So do you support--

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:37:42:00 I said I don't want the federal government to

shut down.

CHUCK TODD:

19:37:44:00 So you don't-- you-- you don't support his

effort, what he's doing?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:37:46:00 Well, he finished a sort of filibuster today.

And, you know, at-- at some point you gotta vote.

So--

CHUCK TODD:

19:37:51:00 So you don't support what he's doin'?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:37:53:00 Well, I'd like to see Obamacare pulled out of--


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federal law, but, you know, we've gotta keep

moving forward and make compromises to get the

budget going.

CHUCK TODD:

19:37:59:00 Mr. McAuliffe, is-- is President Obama showing--

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:38:01:00 First of all, no-- no budget is--

CHUCK TODD:

19:38:02:00 Has President-- has President Obama shown the

right leadership? This is--

19:38:04:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:38:05:00 --this is your-- this-- you're both talkin' about

this. I'm tryin' to-- we're tryin' to save a

little time here.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:38:08:00 But let me answer the question, if I could, that

he just laid out there, if I could for a second,

Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

19:38:11:00 I-- well, the question is about whether you think

President Obama's shown the right leadership to


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solve this crisis.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:38:15:00 No budget will be shut down in Virginia over the

Medicaid expansion. I will work in a bipartisan

way to get it done. That is why over a dozen

former Republican legislators have endorsed my

candidacy. Many of them who had never endorsed a

Democrat before. Just last week in Virginia

Beach, the mayor-- Republican mayor of the

largest city in Virginia, who has never endorsed

a Democrat in his life, Mayor Will Sessoms,

endorsed our candidacy.

19:38:45:00 I now have six of the seven mayors in Hampton

Roads. Why? Because they know we will work

together to get things done. So we won't have

any-- government shutdown. And the only one on

this stage that almost had that effected was Ken

Cuccinelli, when he almost derailed the Virginia

budget, when he was trying to defund Planned

Parenthood.


46/71



19:39:05:00 So he's the only one on the stage that actually

has tried to shut down our government. Now I

think it's disgrace what's goin' on in

Washington. I place a pox on everybody's house

that's not workin'. It's just not workin' as it

is today. Sequestration should never-- these

issues that we have goin' should-- it was

supposed to be so onerous that it would never

happen. Well, it's now happening. And these

things should never be used as bargaining chips

for our budget. So until they get it resolved, I

say shame on everybody.

CHUCK TODD:

19:39:33:00 Including the president?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:39:35:00 Shame on everybody till this gets done.

CHUCK TODD:

19:39:37:00 Julie Kerry has the next question for Mitch--

Mr.-- Cuccinelli.

JULIE KERRY:

19:39:40:00 And we'll talk a little bit more about Medicaid.

As everybody knows, next weekend enrollment for


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the new health care exchanges begins. Mr.

Cuccinelli, we all know that you're firmly

against Virginia expanding Medicaid to give

health care coverage to a family of four making

$32,500 a year. What do you say, though, to

those low income Virginians, who would not be

able to get Medicaid coverage with the Governor

Cuccinelli, but could if they simply lived across

the Potomac in Maryland or the District?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:40:07:00 Well, understand Julie that right now we have

approximately a million-- Virginians-- in poor

families in our Medicaid program. And it can

work a lot better for the folks who are in it. A

40% expansion of Medicaid is not the way to help

make it work better. Now Governor McDonald took

a broad view of government reform. And I have a

narrow and deep view. And it is-- focuses on

VDOT and it focuses on DMAS.

19:40:35:00 I've had an awful lot of time as their attorneys

to spend learning about those-- two agencies.


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There's an awful lot more we can do there.

Earlier, Terry had said, "Well, we can't move

money around in Medicaid." Well, yes, actually,

we can. And we can-- address mental health more

if we move money from one waiver program to

another within Medicaid, if that's our priority.

19:40:55:00 And for me, it is a priority. I think we need to

make Medicai-- the Medicaid system we have now

work better for the people who are in it. And

there are ways to do that. We're losing doctors

and nurses and medical practices in our Medicaid

program. We're trying desperately to keep them

in. And that's a tremendous struggle for us.

19:41:14:00 I believe we ought to lower the liability for

medical practices for those who are working in

our Medicaid program, like our good Samaritan

standard that we have-- for doctors, for

instance, that come across accidents. This is

below cost medical care that we're getting for

Virginia's poor. Overwhelming the system we have


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now that's struggling as it is isn't a way to get

good health care--

CHUCK TODD:

19:41:37:00 Mr. McAuliffe.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:41:38:00 --for other Virginians.

CHUCK TODD:

19:41:38:00 Ninety seconds.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:41:40:00 As we've discussed, this Medicaid expansion is

very important. It's supported in a bipartisan.

It's mainstream. Let's be clear. We should just

walk through the numbers very quickly. Beginning

next year, 400,000 Virginians will get access to

quality, lifesaving care. Number two, this is

our money. It is now the law of the land.

Twenty-nine other states have agreed to accept

it. Some very conservative governors have agreed

to accept it.

19:42:03:00 We're bringing back and as Lieutenant Governor

Bolling said the other day, we're gonna pay $26


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billion over the next 10 years into the federal

government. Why would we not bring $21 billion

of our money back into the Virginia economy to

turbocharge our economy, use that money to bring

more efficiency to the health care delivery

system, make it more cost-effective?

19:42:22:00 And if we don't take the Medicaid expansion

money, then many of our rural hospitals could be

jeopardized. The federal DSH payments,

disproportionate share payments, that is slowly

being ended. So today with a low income

individual who goes to a hospital, they get

reimbursed by the federal DSH payments. That may

go away.

19:42:41:00 In addition, it frees up over the next eight

years, $800 million in the general fund, which we

can use for our priorities. But I go back to the

point, he continually goes to-- on these big

federal issues. But he was absent on one of the

most important federal issues that we had, the


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reauthorization of the Violence Against Women

Act. He was one of three attorney generals in

our nation that refused to sign a letter. 47

other attorney generals. I don't know why he

would not v-- want Virginia women protected

against violence.

CHUCK TODD:

19:43:13:00 Go ahead, Mr. Cuccinelli, 60 seconds.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:43:15:00 Well, first of all, unlike my opponent, I do my

homework. I called Congressman Ryan about the

federal match that we're promised, the-- the

raining down money that Terry is relying on to

fund everything he's promising everyone all over

Virginia. And Congressman Ryan told me, "Ken, it

doesn't matter whether Democrats are in charge up

here or Republicans, we don't have the money in

the federal government to meet these matches

that-- that are proposed in the federal health

care bill."

19:43:46:00 So the question then becomes for a state, when


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we're thinking of getting in, whether you trust

that the money will be there even if you have a

plan to fund the state share, which my opponent

does not. I am not willing to risk Virginia's

budget when the federal government is already

taking the position, many of them taking the

position, that they cannot afford it, even if

they wanted to. The hole in our budget when this

is fully implemented now is $200 million a year.

CHUCK TODD:

19:44:17:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:44:18:00 That'll explode when they don't fund it at the

federal level.

CHUCK TODD:

19:44:19:00 Thank you, Mr. Cuccinelli. Aaron-- has the next

question for Mr. McAuliffe.

AARON GILCHRIST:

19:44:23:00 Mr. McAuliffe, the new NBC 4/Marist poll shows

54% of Virginia voters support gay marriage. You

are among those who support that. But you say

the legislature would not be able to overturn the


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state's ban on gay marriage. Why not use the

office to lead on this issue?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:44:40:00 And we certainly could. I do have some

tremendous-- challenges because of the issues of

economic development, job creation that I need to

focus on. But I have come out for marriage

equality. Irish Catholic kid growin' up.

Dorothy and I spend a lot of time discussin' this

issue. And what really turned it for us is

probably the Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

19:45:01:00 The idea that we could send our men and women

across the globe to fight for us. And then they

come back and they don't have the same equal

opportunities and equal rights, I just think was

plain wrong. So I support marriage equality.

And I've said that. And this is quite a

difference from my opponent.

19:45:17:00 He has referred to gay Virginians as "soulless

and self-destructive human beings." I made the


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point earlier. It almost cost us the Northrop

Grumman deal. And he said it isn't true. Well,

the New York Times reported a-- Governor McDonald

administration official, who told the New York

Times that his actions almost cost (UNINTEL) the

deal. So I would just go back to Governor

McDonald's administration and ask that individual

why he said that then. But this is a very

important issue. I was out early on the issue.

And if we can get a bill through the-- general

assembly and on my desk as governor, I'd sign it.

CHUCK TODD:

19:45:51:00 Mr. Cuccinelli.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:45:52:00 Well, it actually doesn't happen in the form of a

bill. It's a constitutional amendment, so it

never comes to the governor. But to your point,

a governor can still lead on the issue. But it

will never come to the desk of a Virginia

governor. Look, I understand and respect the

fact that this is a sensitive issue to a lot of

Virginians.


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19:46:10:00 But I'm one of those who do believe that the

institution of marriage should remain between one

man and one woman. I would note that my opponent

appears poised, based on some of his comments--

during the campaign, to not defend our state

constitution. Now look, as attorney general,

I've defended laws whether I like them or not.

And as pointed out by a former Democrat attorney

general, Tony Troy, a pattern for Terry, though,

that's been emerging is that he seems to think he

gets to decide which laws and which parts of the

Virginia Constitution that you're obligated to

defend as the Virginia governor.

19:46:47:00 We have two lawsuits running right now on this

matter. And the duty of the attorney general and

the duty of the governor is to defend our

constitution. If they want to change it, one

could lead, as the question suggested, to try and

get the general assembly to make those amendments

and put it on the ballot. But-- but the office


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has duties that come with it. And I respect the

office. And I respect those duties. I respect

Virginia's history. And this is part of it now.

It may change in the future. But right now, the

next governor's obligated to defend our

constitution. I intend to do that.

CHUCK TODD:

19:47:20:00 Go ahead, Mr. McAuliffe, do you have a response?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:47:21:00 Yeah, I will support legislation that allows

equal rights for individuals, for gay Virginians.

I've said continuously that-- you know, my

opponent has continually attacked gay Virginians.

And you cannot grow a business by doin' that.

But clearly, if we get through the general

assembly, we go to a referendum, we come back as

it relates to gay marriage.

19:47:38:00 But I have some big issues that I'm facing right

in front of me. He talks about his duty in

office. Well, I gotta tell you, we had thousands

of landowners in Southwest Virginia who had


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methane gas taken off their property. They were

owed money by two out of state energy companies.

Now what was the attorney general's office and

their responsibility?

19:48:01:00 What they were doin' was secretly telling those

two out of state energy companies how to get out

of that deal and givin' 'em advice of how to beat

the landowners. Now my opponent took $100,000 in

contribution. So while he was taking

contributions, the folks-- who were owed money,

thousands and thousands of Virginia landowners

were denied their money that was due them from--

CHUCK TODD:

19:48:25:00 All right.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:48:25:00 --methane gas that had been taken off their

property.

CHUCK TODD:

19:48:27:00 Thank-- thank you, Mr. McAuliffe.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:48:27:00 He's not doin' his job as attorney general.


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CHUCK TODD:

19:48:28:00 All right, thank you Mr. McAuliffe. Ben's got

the next question for Mr.-- Cuccinelli.

BEN PERSHING:

19:48:32:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, why do you think that Johnny

Williams, the CEO of Star Scientific, gave you

the state's top law enforcement official $18,000

in gifts. And now we know you wrote a check to

charity for that amount. But why were you

willing to accept those gifts in the first place,

given that your office has said he was not a

close friend of yours?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:48:50:00 Well, I-- I would say that-- you know, I-- I met-

- ironically, I met-- Mr. Williams through-- the

governor. And-- and at the time-- you know, what

was goin' on there didn't seem like a big deal.

I didn't know about-- any business he had before

Virginia. And as far as I know, except for their

tax case, they had none. And the only thing we

did in their tax case was oppose them,

vehemently.


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19:49:17:00 They never got-- a break from us. And-- and

they're still fighting it today. And-- and we're

still through free council to the taxpayers--

defending that. And I did give the $18,000 to a

charity. Because I thought it was the right

thing to do. It took awhile to get that together

for the Cuccinelli family. That was-- a hard

thing to do.

19:49:38:00 I also called this summer for a special session

for ethics reform. And I'll remind some of you

that I'm sure don't remember in 2009, when I ran

for attorney general, I put forward an ethics

platform. And we got about half of it achieved,

including the inspector general, which was a big

deal to me when I was in the state senate and

when I was attorney general.

19:49:56:00 And I think that's a big step forward for

Virginia. We have a lot more to do in that area.

But I would say that this is an area I've led on


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as attorney general when I ran for that office.

I've run on-- a platform this time. I would have

liked to have gotten it done during the summer.

But the governor didn't agree with it.

CHUCK TODD:

19:50:13:00 Mr. McAuliffe, as you formulate your answer,

you've talked a lot about this tonight. So can

you-- explain why you haven't returned-- released

more of your tax returns. You pushed Mitt Romney

to do this. And you said by not releasin' him

the imagination runs wild.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:50:26:00 Yeah, I've gone-- I've gone beyond what the last

governors have done, when Governor Kane, Governor

Warner, and Governor McDonald ran. I've gone up

and beyond that. But the issue about the

attorney general and Star Scientific, let's be

clear, Star Scientific owed the state $1.7

million. This suit languished for two years, for

nearly two years.

19:50:48:00 Now instead of the attorney general, as I say,


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going after that, bringing that money back to

Virginia-- taxpayers, he was being taken to New

York City. He was being taken to a Smith

Mountain home-- Lake resort. He spent time and

his staff stayed at his house in Richmond. He

took $18,000 worth of gifts. He bought stock in

the company. And it wasn't disclosed.

19:51:07:00 That company had business before the attorney

general. That was his legal responsibility.

That's why I've called for ethics reform. I've

called for a bipartisan commission, number one.

And number two, I have called for a $100 gift

ban. Any state elected official cannot take a

gift of more than $100. Now I'm gonna propose

that the day I'm-- inaugurated as governor. And

I'm not gonna wait. I'm gonna issue an executive

order for myself, my family, and my appointees

that they cannot take anything over $100. And--

and I would say to the attorney general, join me

in this $100 gift ban. I mean, clearly, you can

buy a lot of turkey for a hundred bucks.


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CHUCK TODD:

19:51:47:00 Mr.-- Cuccinelli?

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:51:48:00 Well, first of all, the Star materials are-- I

reported them. It's important for Virginians to

know I brought this forward. I disclosed them.

I called a press conference to do it. That's how

committed to transparency I am for Virginians.

Because I understand there were problems there.

But I'm the one who brought them forward. I

turned it over to a Democrat prosecutor. And he

cleared me.

19:52:12:00 Does anybody think Terry McAuliffe would have

ever done that if the roles were reversed? I

released eight years of my tax returns to the

media. He won't release any, even though the

company he's chairman of or was chairman of

(that's not altogether clear) is under Securities

Exchange Commission investigation and Department

of Homeland Security investigation.


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19:52:32:00 I think now more than ever we need transparency

from people who seek to have the trust of the

folks of Virginia to assume the office of

governor. And it's pretty rich to have the guy

who rented out the Lincoln Bedroom, sold seats on

Air Force One, was an unindicted coconspirator in

a Teamsters election law--

CHUCK TODD:

19:52:50:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:52:49:00 --money laundering case be talking about ethics

now.

CHUCK TODD:

19:52:52:00 All right. Good news for you--

19:52:53:00 (OVERTALK)

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:52:54:00 --false things tonight.

CHUCK TODD:

19:52:55:00 Good-- good-- good news for you is that-- we got

a little bit of time. I'm gonna do a little

lightning round with you, so you both-- I want

you to just take 30 seconds, deal with this


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question. Would you be open to Virginia-- Mr.

McAuliffe first, to Virginia joining most other

states in the country and allowing school

districts to start school before Labor Day? It's

somehow not allowed in this state.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:53:15:00 No.

CHUCK TODD:

19:53:16:00 You don't want to allow it? Keep it-- keep it

the way it is.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:53:17:00 The tourism business is too important. The

change would result in Virginia-- it'd cost us

about $369 million. Tourism-- is a vital part.

It is our second biggest industry. Agriculture

and forestry are one and three. They're a $79

billion industry.

CHUCK TODD:

19:53:32:00 Even though kids could fall behind-- with AP

tests, things like that?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:53:35:00 Oh, there's a lot of best practice we can do. I


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was just down at Newport News, the Achievable

Dream, a spectacular school. They go an hour

longer during the day. They go every other

Saturday. There's many things that we can do.

But we cannot with these economic headwinds give

up $369 million worth of--

CHUCK TODD:

19:53:49:00 Tryin' to squeeze it in here.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:53:49:00 --tourism money.

CHUCK TODD:

19:53:50:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, go ahead.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:53:51:00 I brought this bill on behalf of the Democrat

Board of-- School Board of Fairfax County, when I

was in the state senate. Children outrank

tourism. Now there are changes that we can make

to take the pressure off the pre-Labor Day start,

like appropriate reforms to the standards of

learning. Because we sp-- we focus on that day

very much. There are things we can do to make

this easier until we get before Labor Day. But


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ultimately, localities should have the

opportunity to make that decision themselves.

CHUCK TODD:

19:54:22:00 All right, before-- before I get to closing

statements here, I got one weird sports question

for you. The Redskins. Should they change their

name, Mr. McAuliffe? Is it offensive to-- it's

offensive to a lot of Native Americans. Do you

think they should change their name?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:34:00 I don't think the governor ought to be tellin'

private businesses what they should do about

their business.

CHUCK TODD:

19:54:38:00 Even if it's offensive--

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:39:00 I'm not--

CHUCK TODD:

19:54:38:00 --to people?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:40:00 I'm-- I don't think the governor should be

tellin' private businesses--


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CHUCK TODD:

19:54:42:00 Do you have a personal opinion on it?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:44:00 As governor, I don't-- I'm not gonna tell Dan

Snyder or anybody else what they should do with

their business. And I want to congratulate the

Redskins, because I went down to the training

park this year in Richmond. And it is

spectacular--

CHUCK TODD:

19:54:53:00 Mister--

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:54:00 --what Governor McDonald--

19:54:54:00 (OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

19:54:55:00 Mr. Cuccinelli, do you-- do you think it's time

for the Redskins to change their name?

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:54:59:00 I-- I think that is up to them entirely. I think

that, you know, 80 years of history with that

team is kind of hard to leave behind. I

understand that. I also don't think RG3 should


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have been played in the second quarter in the

playoffs last year. (LAUGH)

CHUCK TODD:

19:55:12:00 Well, I had a l-- I had a little fun there. That

concludes our questions. And now, Mr. McAuliffe,

you have a one minute closing statement.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:55:19:00 Well-- thank you once again to the-- Fairfax

Chamber for hosting us tonight. There is a real

choice in this election about who will grow and

who will diversify our economy. We must work in

a bipartisan way if we want to create jobs. My

opponent talks a lot about experience. But his

experience has been in dividing people by

pursuing his own ideological agenda, introducing

legislation that would outlaw most common forms

of birth control.

19:55:50:00 And bullying the Board of Health, which resulted

in the shutting down of some women's health

centers. Frankly, I think Virginia women have

had just about enough of Ken Cuccinelli's


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experience. The approach that I'll bring to

Richmond is different. Building on bipartisan

coalitions that we established and brought

together in this campaign, I'll work with both

parties to find mainstream solutions to the big

problems that we face. It's the approach that

worked for Mark Warner. And it's approach that

we need--

CHUCK TODD:

19:56:20:00 All right.

TERRY MCAULIFFE:

19:56:21:00 --desperately now in Virginia.

CHUCK TODD:

19:56:23:00 And Mr. Cuccinelli, you get the last word.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:56:25:00 The Northern Virginia Technology Council's

TechPAC and Virginia's small independent

businesses have endorsed me this week or last

week. Because they know I'm best prepared to

fight to grow Virginia's economy. My opponent is

the only one in this race who's driven jobs from

this state. And he has no plan to bring them


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back.

19:56:44:00 Terry sold more visas to Chinese citizens as part

of Greentech than his failed company has sold

cars. His jobs history with Greentech is

terrible. I'll be a governor who fights for you.

Terry will fight for Terry, because he always

has. If you'll give me your support on November

5th, I'll fight for our education and economic

policies that grow jobs for the middle class.

19:57:07:00 And by leaving families and businesses with more

of their own money, so they can invest those

hard-earned dollars right here in Virginia. My

jobs plan will grow 58,000 good full-time jobs in

Virginia. I have faith in the people of Virginia

that if we remain true to our noblest ideals and

principles like limited government--

CHUCK TODD:

19:57:25:00 All right.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:57:25:00 --and strong families, that we can be better--


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CHUCK TODD:

19:57:27:00 Thank you.

KEN CUCCINELLI:

19:57:27:00 --in the future than we've been in the past.

CHUCK TODD:

19:57:29:00 Thank you both. Thank you very much. Voters,

it's up to you.

19:57:31:00 (COMMERCIAL BREAK NOT TRANSCRIBED)

* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *

virginia governor debate transcript

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