TWL Episode 32- Fairies with Morgan Daimler

Sun, 4/19 9:41PM • 1:21:59

SUMMARY KEYWORDSfairies, people, books, fairy, folklore, called, stories, peter pan, human, irish, beliefs, morgan, play, eat, happen, talking, hilary, folk, dealing, tend

SPEAKERSKanani, Intro music, Courtney Hoover, Hilary, Morgan, (Exit Music)

Intro music 00:00(Intro music) 20 years ago, three young friends realized they were witches. They scattered to different parts of the world following Magick and Spirit. Now, they're back in their hometown to share what they've learned. Welcome to That Witch Life Podcast. Your home for living as a Witch in today's world.

Kanani 00:49Hello witches and welcome to another episode of That Witch Life Podcast. This is another one of our pre planned episodes. We're actually actually recording this about 10 days early. So I don't even want to pretend that we're going to know what's going to be happening in the world 10 days from now. So if we sound super far behind in life, it's because we're not there yet. So I apologize. I am currently with my other co hosts, Courtney and Hilary.

Hilary 01:22

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Hello

Courtney Hoover 01:23Hello

Kanani 01:24I've already informed them. I'm in the middle of my Cadbury creme egg and vodka seven up right now. So I'm very excited.

Courtney Hoover 01:33What how many cream eggs is this for you for the day because you're popping them like Prozac and I said, you're eating the little ones right? Like I couldn't even eat that many big ones. And you went Oh, hell no,

Kanani 01:43I forgot the little ones existed. Why would anyone bother with those?

Courtney Hoover 01:47Yeah, cuz they're convenient. Man that's a lot of sugar. Like I one of those I get a stomachache.

Hilary 01:51Yeah, sam I eat like one of those. I'm like, UGH

Courtney Hoover 01:55But we were talking to the queen of sweets.

Kanani 01:57I was gonna say but this is me.

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Hilary 02:00(screaming goat sound)

Kanani 02:02Exactly. I'm going to say, Oh, I couldn't eat, I could easily eat...I don't even want to think of how many I could eat in a day but I could I easily will eat two at a time.

Courtney Hoover 02:12OH, wow,

Hilary 02:14that hurts me.

Courtney Hoover 02:16I know. I'm on a one a year thing with the Cadbury cream eggs we meet once a year and it's a wonderful tryst and then we go back to our separate lives.

Hilary 02:25Agree I haven't had one yet. I probably won't because you know, it's not like we would venture out for a Cadbury creme egg

Kanani 02:31Well then I wash it down with vodka in 7-Up so really, of all of us. I'm the most healthy I mean

Hilary 02:38(laughing)

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Courtney Hoover 02:39you're having the most fun I'm actually really jealous of vodka and seven-up I am drinking, lukewarm. mediocre, like pale tea because we're recording this episode in the same day that we recorded the April 6 episode with aromatherapy. And so if you recall from the last episode, friends I've been up since two in the morning. It is now 3:30 in the afternoon, so as you can imagine, I'm tired. If I get really quiet during this episode, there's a possibility that I did fall asleep.

Kanani 03:11I'll be happy so it'll be fine. I'll carry it all carry this episode

Hilary 03:14We will use the goat screams to wake you up. It will be like your alarm is going off. (screaming goat sound)

Courtney Hoover 03:21What a horrifying alarm. Why would you do that to someone?

Hilary 03:26Because you deserve it.

Courtney Hoover 03:29God, it's not my fault I don't sleep anymore.

Kanani 03:32We'll just be grateful that this is all audio and there's no video and so if at some point halfway through I'm topless, I don't have to worry about it.

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Courtney Hoover 03:40Well, you figure we most of us are doing these things. pantsless anyway, so

Kanani 03:44this is what I'm saying.

Courtney Hoover 03:45Oh, man.

Kanani 03:48It's good times. What have you guys been up to for the last two hours since we spoke.

Courtney Hoover 03:52I wrote a full length novel and you remodel the house. We did the siding on the outside. I have mastered yoga and found complete inner peace.

Hilary 04:06I mean, only that?... God your fucking lazy

Courtney Hoover 04:14I ate a cold turkey burger without a bun and took my terrified dog on a walk.

Hilary 04:22I let the dogs play in the backyard. I potted a bunch of flowers.

Kanani 04:28

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I want to see pictures of your backyard. I bet that looks cool.

Hilary 04:31Mine? Oh in the back, I have to mow still. But the flowers I'll show you there I'll send it send you a picture there on the deck. So I have like a little succulent garden and then I have some brighter flowers that are flowering right now. And then what else did I repotted a pothos to put on a shelf, caught up with a friend of mine on the phone and then heated up some curry that I made and I'm drinking a very large pint of water.

Courtney Hoover 05:01This didn't happen over this two hour break we had, but I forgot to tell you that my husband and I finally played this game that Hilary gave me like a year ago is called "Oh Gnome You Don't" as in like, pointy hat, gnome character. It is so weird. And so hilarious. I'm actually really excited that Brian wanted to wanted to play that. He wanted to play this game in and Hilary gave it to me as kind of a joke. We were over at a mutual friend's house who was getting rid of a bunch of stuff and it's somebody we haven't seen in a while and not someone that you know, I'm super close to so it was not being my normal, chaotic, you know, socially inappropriate self and was trying to, you know, not embarrass Hilary. And they have this game that said, "Oh Gnome You Don't" so Hilary's like, Oh, I think Courtney should have this because in addition to our inside joke about pigs, Hilary and I have also had an inside joke about gnomes And so I'm sitting there like, like losing my mind and trying not to just laugh. Because I start laughing, I can't stop. And it becomes really awkward for everybody else around me after, you know, 5 or 10 minutes where I'm just still laughing and I can't breathe or talk. And I was afraid I was about to go into that space. And Hilary

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was actually trying to push me there because she thought it would be funny if I embarrass myself in front of her friend.

Hilary 06:06Yeah it's bad. Yeah, I did.

Courtney Hoover 06:25But anyway, the game really fun. You basically you're supposed to get these gems out of the mine, and then like, and then sell them and then you like, are constantly playing tricks on other gnomes. As you go around the path. Now I know that Hilary would love this game because of that. I think Kanani would like it sometimes it would depend how much vodka and ice cream you'd had that day but you would probably enjoy the tricks on other people, but then you just get angry and probably start throwing game pieces if the tricks were happening to you.

Kanani 06:59God, you do you know me? It's like you've known me since we were children,

Courtney Hoover 07:06we need to play the game and put it on Instagram Live so that our listeners can watch us play this game.

Kanani 07:13I am totally a table thrower, hundred percent.

Courtney Hoover 07:18

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The best was when Kanani and I were playing Cards Against Humanity with our husbands and Kanani one, but I was so like, I know how to get her. I'm putting the cards away, and I put them all in order right side up and then while she's watching, I take one in the middle of the deck and turn it upside down and stick it in the box and put the lid on the box. Like there's steam coming out of our ears. And I just looked at him like, Is it really that important to you to find that one card?

Kanani 07:48Just listening to this right now I'm getting all upset. And she just like grabs the box takes it and starts searching to fix it. So was so pissed. Funny thing... So everyone who's listened for more than one episodes knows that 1) I'm dead inside and 2) I have no shame. So everyone can understand it's pretty fun play Cards Against Humanity with me because I have no shame. Now my husband is fairly shy and kind of doesn't talk a lot until you get a little bit of booze in him. And so when he does get kind of boozy and stuff people find out Oh, hell he dances. Oh, hell, he's really funny and we were playing Cards Against Humanity with this group of people and my husband won because my husband has foul like people don't even know like at first it's shocking and upsetting to people like I don't know what's happening right now. He's so quiet and nice and shy. I don't know what's happening.

Courtney Hoover 08:54Kanani, that group of people were my in laws and that was my wedding.

Kanani 08:57I know. It was fantastic.

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Courtney Hoover 09:00(laughing) during the rehearsal dinner, like half of my in laws, and Kanani's husband just vanished, and I'm in the middle of just, you know, talking to all of my relatives, there were like, 7000 of them there. So I was pretty busy. And then we did realize that your husband was missing, along with a lot of my husband's family. They were downstairs playing Cards Against Humanity, and Connie's husband was cleaning house. Oh, my God, it was happening.

Kanani 09:25And at one point, Brian was down there and he looks at me and he's like, your husband's kind of nasty. I'm like, Well, now you know, I'm married him. So one of the things that, well, I'm like, now I'm half bombed, but I'm also super excited because this is like, I mean, I've loved so many of the episodes that we've done, and everybody loves to joke about me, you know, fangirling but I'm just letting you know, be ready because now I'm half in the bag and I've been waiting to fangirl over this for months and months and months because we are going to be discussing today my absolute favorite topic, the thing that probably more than anything drove me straight into the craft and my practice and everything and

Courtney Hoover 10:11Was that Monty Python?

Hilary 10:13Yeah Monty Python.

Kanani 10:15It's definitely not that stupid

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Courtney Hoover 10:18Was it The Crow?

Kanani 10:28UGH

Courtney Hoover 10:28What's your favorite topic?

Kanani 10:29It's the fae. We're gonna talk about faeries. I'm sorry. I'm a little excited and a little drunk both little bit. Courtney, what are some... Do you have any tips or anything like that for the next few weeks with the new moon coming up and everything?

Courtney Hoover 10:47Yeah, this was a little challenging. Um, as you pointed out, we don't have any clue what's going to be happening in our world over the next few weeks. By the time when we release this, there will be a new moon coming up. A few days later on Wednesday, April 22. As usual, the New Moon is in general good for new beginnings. This particular New Moon is similar to some of the conditions we had around spring equinox. Especially good for new beginnings, the moon is in Taurus, and Taurus is ruled by Venus. And so it's the sign of a very, very good looking, alluring people as Hilary very well knows because she's a Taurus. And so it's a really good time to tap into that Venus energy if you want to make yourself feel more attractive and feel really beautiful, I think because we've all been living in caves for the past few weeks. And there's been a lot of jokes online about people not being able to

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keep up with their hair or their nails or whatever, which doesn't really make a difference to Kanani or I, because we don't really, well you do your nails Kanani, I don't even do my nails. So, so yeah, but it is, especially if you're you've not been out and picking up on energies of other people, I've been feeling really sluggish. It's a really good time to tap back into your own beautiful mojo. So one thing I recommend is washing your combs and brushes with new moon water similar to full moon water in which you you try to catch the reflection of the full moon and a bowl of water. So for a new moon, it's easier because that moon isn't out so you don't have to run around in the park or in your backyard trying to catch the reflection. Basically just sit it out on the back porch or in your window sill for the night and it soaks up that nice dark moon energy and then you can wash your hair or your face with this. Again, wash your combs or brushes with it. And if you're already feeling really good, you know feeling good and sexy because staying home suits you, you can the bottle it up and use it later if there's a time in which you really want to lift how you feel and lifts your own personal beauty. So I think it'll be good to to help people get their swagger back.

Hilary 13:03I have a really important question for you though, Courtney.

Courtney Hoover 13:06Yeah?

Hilary 13:06Do you have any video footage of you running around in the backyard trying to get a reflection of a full moon because I'd like some of that for comic relief?

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Kanani 13:14I had that video play in my brain. as she said that sentence.

Hilary 13:18Me too

Courtney Hoover 13:20I don't, but I am willing to let my husband videotape me when we have our next full moon, I've got to catch the water. And I'll be happy to send that around. In fact, we are recording this just before the full moon so maybe I'll try to do that this week. We could post it on the Instagram.

Kanani 13:35That can totally be on the interwebs

Courtney Hoover 13:38Yeah. So some recommendations for books and things...the ones I chose this week are all based on fairies. There's a lot of really mixed information out there about fairies have had a very convoluted journey in folklore and mythology. Over the years, and I wanted to make sure we mentioned some that come from some people that are considered experts in the field of fairies. And so there's three books I'm really going to recommend. The first one is called The Good People by Peter Navarez, and that's one that I referenced a lot while I was doing my book on the Morrigan and the other is called Meeting The Other Crowd by Eddie Lenihan. It's absolutely fascinating. In fact, let Eddie Lenihan if you are interested in fairies, he's somebody you absolutely should follow. He is considered to be one of the greatest living storytellers. He is native Irish and he has an immense catalogue of stories involving fairies so there are, he does have videos and YouTube, and just

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hearing him tell stories is a completely phenomenal experience. So definitely get his book and follow his videos. The last one is called The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries, by W.Y. Evans-Wentz it's one that it's recommended you take it with a grain of salt when it comes to this author's scholarship and their theories about their actually being a fairy faith, but, or what that fairy faith involves, but it's a good book to have because of the stories that this author collected from the people living in the countryside and their experiences with fairies. And there's two podcasts that talk about fairies a lot. They both are led by native Irish people. The first one is called Motherfoclóir which is digs into wonderful mythology. I just listened to Episode 116, which is literally called Don't Fuck with Fairy Forts. And it is so good. So check that one out, as well as the Story Archeology Podcast where they really dissect a lot of different Irish mythology. And then the third one is the The Irish Pagan School which is led by Irish pagans and scholars and they offer individual classes Is several of them are on fairies. Their whole canon of classes is exceptional about you know focusing on Irish paganism and you know, some of the classes are actually free. The others are a very reasonable cost. So like I said, if you're interested in fairies, here's definitely some things that you're gonna want to check out.

Kanani 16:19Another really good one. Well, there's lots of great books, but another great one it's actually called The Fairy Faith. You can, the only way you can find it is used copies on Amazon, but you can watch it for free in its entirety on YouTube. And it's called The Fairy Faith. And it's it's mostly a it's a homemade documentary, and it's essentially a man who traveled back to Ireland and just kind of got first hand accounts of different people's experiences. So it's like you can take take of it what you will but these are people's experiences that he shares with them

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and he travels to different parts. And I absolutely, I've recommend that video to lots of people. I love watching it. I watched it with my daughter a couple days ago, before talking to Morgan. And one of the things that one of the lines I love was you don't see fairies with your eyes, you see them with your heart. And it's a super cool documentary. It's really fun. I mean, as long as you're not watching it and thinking, Oh, this is true, all of this has happened. And you just take it for what it is. I think that's a really fun watch.

Hilary 17:36Yeah, I am actually very excited because I don't know that much about fairies. Um, I mean, I know obviously the basics and a little bit but I don't work with fairies and so

Courtney Hoover 17:48well, it's funny because a lot of people that have had a great deal of research or encounters with fairies have often said the same thing is that you don't really work with fairies. You basically leave them alone and hope they leave you alone. This thing Morgan I'm sure will get into but the idea of the fairies being sweet and like lovely is pretty modern and not really true to the legacy of fairies. It's very Disney-fied. Yes, it's not, you know, we're not talking like, like, I think that one of the things that people get wrong about the folklore of fairies is that the belief that fairies not only are interested in helping humans, but that it's their job. Like you look at Tinker Bell or whose entire job was to support and take care of a man child who never wanted to grow up. I mean, come on now.

Hilary 18:49Oh my god that's so accurate

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Courtney Hoover 18:52It's exactly what I was and it wasn't enough for him to have one female tending to him. You need to go find a Wendy and then they were fighting fighting over eat like, Well it wasn't that it was her job. Come on, if we're gonna quote Disney, okay, we need to be honest. It's that Tinkerbell was in love with Peter Pan. So she took so she took care of him.

Hilary 19:13Yes but she still took care of him when he should have just taken care of himself.

Kanani 19:18Yes.

Courtney Hoover 19:19Yeah.

Hilary 19:21Atttention man children of the world.

Kanani 19:23Exactly, take care of your damn self.

Courtney Hoover 19:25And of course she she almost dies in trying to save him. And even then he can't fix it. He's relying on children to rectify the situation for him.

Hilary 19:38

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Useless

Kanani 19:39Giant man baby

Courtney Hoover 19:42we should watch Peter Pan and like do a tutorial of this is called the anti dating TED Talk Peter Pan.

Kanani 19:48Well, the whole reason she's trying to save him, I don't know when the last time you watched it, the whole reason she's trying to save him is because she put him in jeopardy in the first place. Because she was the jealous, stunted woman in his life who was jealous of Wendy and so she left. And in her huff, she was convinced by hook that he was going to help her to get rid of Wendy. And so it was actually Tink who we all love, who actually put him in danger and then when she realized that went to try and save him, because it's like, come on what better twisted love story than a child story where, you know, the whole love triangle going on with a bunch of toddlers like that's yikes

Courtney Hoover 20:42Well, that's an even more twisted thing that Disney added that to the storyline, because in the play of Peter Pan, she didn't do that and that somebody left him a cup of poison.

Kanani 20:55I've never seen the play.

Courtney Hoover 20:57

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Yeah, she drinks it and it's she's dying and that's when Peter Pan turns to the audience and says, Do you believe in fairies? You have to clap really loud. It's like Peter, why can't you believe in her enough?

Hilary 21:08Yeah you have to get children to do it?

Kanani 21:10What a douche?

Courtney Hoover 21:13Yeah, there was there's been a lot of think pieces out there like that are called basically Peter Pan is the worst. And it's so true.

Kanani 21:21I play differentiated from the movie so much.

Courtney Hoover 21:27Oh, yeah, I mean come on, honey. I mean, Disney their paws all over it and it's over. Right?

Kanani 21:33Interesting. Now I want to see the play.

Courtney Hoover 21:35Yeah, I want to well, there is a version that Mary Martin did. You can probably get. You can probably rent it on Amazon.com. But it's it's so interesting and this is where my theater geekdom turns in, because it's technically traditionally it's a woman that plays Peter Pan as a boy. Yeah, yeah. But then they in some recent versions, they actually

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started casting, adolescent boys playing Peter Pan and the whole thing just gets really dark at that point. Because you see this young man like taunting this girl. Right? And so we're it's it's one thing when it's a woman because all of a sudden it becomes this pesky thing and it's cute. Oh, look at them having this back and forth because you start you don't think of it as a man doing this to a girl. But then all of a sudden, you actually put a young man in that role and it gets really it gets really mean. And I'm scared to watch it as an adult because I'm afraid I'm going to see all of my college relationships play out again. In which I was the Wendy to all these Peter Pan man children.

Kanani 22:34I have to play now.

Courtney Hoover 22:36Yeah, it's remember like, you know, she said, my name is Wendy Maura Angela darling and he says Wendy's enough. Like she doesn't have entitlement to say her entire name ifshe wants to?

Kanani 22:44Does she slap him after he does that?

Courtney Hoover 22:46 You've seen the movie? No, she goes, Oh, you're right. Right?. And then when she grows up, you kind of shames her for it. Wendy, you're too grown up you can't come play with us anymore.

Hilary 22:56Oh my god such an A-hole.

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Courtney Hoover 22:58Let's watch Peter Pan and let's like film slag slamming it. I think this is a plan.

Hilary 23:04Yeah, it sounds like a good plan.

Courtney Hoover 23:06But thanks Tinkerbell who not only gave us all codependent relationship models, you also tainted the reputation of the fairies. Oh dear.

Kanani 23:16Ruined.....So we are really excited to have joining us, Morgan Daimler. Morgan Daimler is a witch who follows a path inspired by the Irish Fairy Faith. A wandering priestess of the aos sidhe, Morgan teaches classes on Irish myth, fairies, and related subjects around the United States and online, as well as, having a Youtube channel focused on fairylore. Morgan’s writing has appeared in many different magazines and anthologies; they are also the author of a variety of books including the urban fantasy/paranormal romance series Between the Worlds, and through Moon Books Pagan Portals Fairy Witchcraft, Fairies: A Guide to the Celtic Fair Folk, and A New Dictionary of Fairies. How are you? We're super glad that you were able to join us even with all of the funl technical difficulties we're having.

Morgan 23:24Yeah, it's, as was saying before we officially started this seems to happen anytime I do any sort of interview where this subject gets brought up. There's just this inescapable tech thing that happens.

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Courtney Hoover 24:32Well, that's one thing Kanani and I have been running around behind the scenes, leaving offerings. I've put I put milk and honey in a cup as far away to the edge of my property as possible. And I know Kanani did something similar at her condo. I want to raise up a story, Morgan that I don't think I've told you, and you and I chat pretty frequently online. When I'd had my New York City release party, we had... It was at cat land books, which has a very cave like environment, right, which is reminiscent of the Morrigan and Oweynagat, the Cave of the Cats. And I did my book talk. And there were a lot of people that were really interested in the Morrigan's relationship to the faries. And so we spent a while talking about that. And at the end of the night, I'm trying to pack up and leave, and I realized I don't have my phone, I cannot find it in my purse, and I don't carry a large purse. So it wasn't like it was at the bottom of something. And in addition to that, I wear a Fitbit every day that when someone calls my phone, my Fitbit goes off and I feel I feel it vibrate. And I could not find my phone anywhere. And so I asked people to call it and the Fitbit was not buzzing. And so I started to be concerned that my phone had been stolen because if it were in the room, my watch would be buzzing and it just wasn't and so I had everybody combing the space trying to help me find my phone and then I recalled a story from one of Morgan's books in which they realized they were fairy led. And so they started leading everyone around them in a in applauding and laughing and saying, Oh worth the fairies funny. They played such a clever joke on us. And I got everybody in the room, alright, New Yorkers, weren't the fairies hilarious? They're hiding my phone. Isn't that funny, everybody? Haha, clap, clap, clap, clap. And people started looking at me like, you're insane. I said, please laugh and please clap, guys. I really need your

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help. And so they started playing along with it. And so I've had somebody else call my phone literally a fifth time, and on the fifth time, then I heard it ring and I felt it buzz on my wrist and it had been in my purse the entire time. But even though I had searched this tiny purse 15 times and it wasn't buzzing before it finally buzzed once we gave the fairies the appropriate attention they seem to be looking for so it can happen anywhere including Brooklyn, New York.

Morgan 26:59I believe it and I'm sorry that he laughed at your your horrible phone missing agony.

Courtney Hoover 27:09I think I think that it requires some laughter and so I want to say thank you. You're I think I probably never would have found my phone again if I had not read your book and learn that. That trick.

Morgan 27:19Yeah, it's um, that was actually a really funny situation in retrospect, not so much at the time. Because we, we did, we had gone It was a group of maybe half a dozen of us, maybe seven or eight, and we had gone to do a full moon ritual together. It was a mixed group. We weren't all like the same flavor of pagan, if you will, but just all getting together to do something. And we went out into the woods behind the house, the childhood house of one of the women, and she'd literally lived there her whole childhood and had gone back to the spot in the woods more times then she could count. And we go back and we do it and everything's fine. And then we're trying to leave, and we could not get out of the woods. We could see the lights from the houses, because it was like a little section of woods behind like a suburban

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development. And we could see the lights. But no matter how much we tried, we could not get any closer to them. So the 15 minute walk out, it was like 45 minutes trying to get back and we're still lost in the woods and getting stuck in like pricker bushes and tripping over stone walls and it was just the most ridiculous misadventure in the suburbs ever. Until we all started laughing and then we finally got out. It's it's funny now, at the time it was a little nerve racking.

Hilary 28:50I bet that I would be like, Oh my goodness.

Kanani 28:54You just have to give the people what they want and what they want is for you to finally laugh at the fact that they're trying to make you crazy.

Morgan 29:01Yeah. appreciate their efforts.

Kanani 29:04Exactly. So, one of the things we usually start off with people is we usually like to ask people, how did you know or what brought you into practicing witchcraft?

Morgan 29:18Um, that's a good question. I had not been raised in any particular religion. So my childhood, I tend to describe it as like secular agnostic. There's a whole really long story about that. But ultimately, when I was about 11, my best friend had come across Scott Cunningham's book, Wicca for the Solitary Practitioner and shown it to me.

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Kanani 29:50That's a classic

Morgan 29:51 It is. It is the gateway to paganism for many, many people. And when I read it, you know, as someone who had really never had any structured religion in their life and who had signed up kind of casually explored a few. Reading Cunningham's book, it kind of everything clicked into place. The the realization that you could, you know, basically you could be pagan in the modern world, you could worship multiple gods and that there were other people who believe that spirits, you know, and fairies and ghosts and all that were real. And it just all made such intuitive sense to me. I mean, obviously, I didn't stay with that particular type of witchcraft, but sort of the wider concept of it really clicked with me. So that's how I, I ended up in it.

Kanani 30:45I actually it's funny, I actually bought both of your books I actually have Fairies: A Guide To the Celtic Fair Folk and then A New Dictionary of Fairies: a 21st century exploration of Celtic and related Western European Fairies. Fairies have been something that I've been kind of studying and into for a very long time. And so I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed both of your books, because a lot of it just kind of resonated with me. And I just thought it was it was very well written it was it was very digestible. And I think that a lot of times when you're looking into this kind of stuff, it can vary so much. And you get all these different concepts. You and I kind of talked a little bit about, you know, some of the some of our kind of current knowledge or what people currently put out has a lot to do with what people have previously documented. And the reliability of that can be kind of questionable in nature. But some of

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the things that you talked about that I think would be really awesome for people who maybe aren't that fluent in this stuff or haven't studied it a whole lot, one of the things that you discuss is that they don't necessarily like to be called fairies.

Morgan 32:10Yeah, that's, that's actually a really big thing. And I admit that I am really bad about that. Not so much in my daily life, my actual, you know, real life, if you will, but when I'm teaching or when I'm writing, or, you know, I'm talking like this, it's so hard not to use the word fairy, because that's just what people understand. But yeah, in, in most of the folklore in most cultures that still actively have these beliefs, it's considered a really bad idea to use that particular term. The belief is basically that they don't like it, and that you don't want to use any sort of terms that that are going to upset them or that they're not going to like because, again, the the folk belief is that at any time the fairies, the good folk could be passing by and humans might not see them or be aware of them. So anytime you're speaking about them, you can't know for sure that they're not hearing you. And if you say something that offends them or upsets them, there's going to potentially be consequences for that. There's a lot of anecdotal accounts and older folkloric stories about what happens in those situations. So kind of the practice of using euphemisms came about and actually dates back, I think the oldest references we have in writing are like 500 or 600 years. And they're always more positive, you know, beneficial terms. So things like the fair folk, the good people, mother's blessing, that's a Welsh one. You know, and it's just the idea that if they happen to be passing by and they hear you and you're using something that's complimentary, they're not going to be upset with you that you're talking about them. And sort of reminds them that they potentially can

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be those good positive things. Because you know, clearly in in the folklore and in even modern accounts and modern belief, they're not always positive. They're not always going to necessarily be your friend, or be helpful. So you don't want to make them mad.

Kanani 34:36Would you have a term that you kind of use as your default term?

Morgan 34:43I tend to use Irish terms a lot. So, Daoine maithe, eile, daoine eile, aos sidhe, daoine sidhe, Daoine uaisle, you know all terms like that. They're all basically like, um, you know has the good people. Daoine eile is the other crowd. The other people, daoine uaisle is the Gentry you know, so all things kind of along those lines. in English I think most often I'll either call them the good neighbors or the good folk.

Kanani 35:39I think that's you know, that's another thing that's really interesting is that we talked about a little bit before about how there's a misconception with a lot of people that fairies are, they're good and they're kind and and they're, you know, protecting Mother Nature and they're you know, our helpers in the garden or things like that, and they've gotten this kind of very, you know, cartoony kind of spin placed on them. But if you speak to people who practice and have a fairy belief, that is not what they believe that is that is not the folklore. That's kind of not what the story is say.

Morgan 36:26Oh, definitely, you know, and when we look at, at the sort of the entirety of the material, if you will, you know, of course, there are going

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to be examples of, you know, beings that are helpful or, you know, stories where the good folk interact in a way that is just sort of a random act of kindness, if you will, but those tend to be more unusual, you know, as the stories go, as people's encounters go, even the more positive ones, the ones that we would normally sort of categorize as more benevolent, if you upset them or make them angry or insult them, you know, they're gonna respond in a way that's not going to be pleasant for the human being involved. There's a reason that probably 50-60% of the folk material that we have relating to fairies is about protections against them. Either things to do or not to do to avoid upsetting them, or avoid them entirely. or ways to sort of defend yourself or protect yourself if they are upset or if they're just around and you know, that they're around and you want to make sure that, you know, you're keeping yourself safe. You know, and we have so much of that material, sort of that apotropaic side of things, that, you know, it's pretty clear that people have always had a lot of respect for their ability to potentially cause harm, sometimes really significant harm, if they're motivated to. And that's, that's talking about the ones who are more on that benevolent end of things. If, you know, we're talking about the ones who are more, I guess, you would say sort of malicious by nature, you know, they don't really need much in the way of motivation to cause human's problems, that's just sort of what they do. I always try to avoid referring them as like bad or evil, because, you know, I don't think that those sort of moral judgments come into it. You know, they're just sort of doing what it is they do. It just happens that you know, what it is they do is like, lure children into streams and drown them or, you know, trick people into riding on them and then eat them. That's just their nature. That's what they do, which is never going to end well for the human being involved.

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Kanani 39:10What is it that drew you to studying the fair folk?

Morgan 39:17That's a good question. It's actually kind of funny because I think that a lot of people, you know, particularly when they read the two books that you had mentioned earlier, or see a lot of my writing online, tend to assume that, you know, my entire approach to this subject is very intellectual. But kind of as the story that opened this, my story after Courtney's story illustrated, I have a lot of interactions, I have a lot of experiences and that goes back as far as I can remember, before I was into witchcraft, you know, back when I was a very small child, I would have these experiences, I would see things. I would have encounters. And I think I got to a certain age where I just needed a way to contextualize that. I grew up in the Irish American diaspora, so I had some of that folklore kind of with me already, in fragmented form, if you will, but I think I hit a point when I was a teenager, where I really started studying it, because I needed that framework. I needed to understand my experiences and what I was dealing with and seeing and I needed it to, to have a bigger context than just me. And that's what really got me into studying the older folklore and modern anecdotal accounts and you know, for me at least once I got into that, it almost becomes like, I don't want to say in the session, because I think I'm already making myself sound a little crazy with everything I've just said but...

Kanani 41:20You and I both, girlfriend!

Hilary 41:24

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Yeah, agree!

Courtney Hoover 41:25We've heard a lot of things on this show and the people that listen to us come because they've had profound experiences they don't understand so hearing what somebody else might think of as "quote unquote" crazy is all very often quite validating. So please continue

Kanani 41:44We love it.

Hilary 41:45We love the crazy

Morgan 41:45I channel my crazy into research. Because, you know, for me, it was just that was how I grounded myself when I was having to deal with things that were really, really difficult for other people to understand. We'll just put it that way.

Kanani 42:05I think, I think what kind of captivated me and got me so drawn into it was when you actually, it was, I mean, frankly, it was I think in the beginning it was kind of the cuteness of the concept, right? Like, I'd be lying if I didn't say I just thought that the the idea of it, the Disney-fied version was was, you know, cute and fun. And then you start looking into it and you realize that is not at all what any of this is, and that's what grabbed me.

Morgan 42:36

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Right

Kanani 42:36It was when you realize that no, it's it's nothing like that. It's It's so different and, and you get into the depths of that. And you start to learn about that. And I think the other thing that really resonated with me was although they they talked about, "quote unquote", the fairy faith, it's not its own religion,

Morgan 42:59Right

Kanani 42:59So it's a belief system that is encapsulated in so many different religions, that it has nothing to do, you know, people who consider themselves Christian or, you know, practicing Judaism or practicing, you know, Islam or something they may have a belief in, in the fair folk, and the fact that it is just all encompassing like that, and it just doesn't have religious bounds, I think just added more credence to me of the validity, because it wasn't just something that people were told because this was part of the religion that you were told to believe.

Morgan 43:41Right, right. And I think that the term fairy faith is a bit of a misnomer. And I do think it sometimes confuses people. So it's an excellent point that you brought up, because it's not its own religion, as you said. It's sort of a term that was coined, kind of in the late Victorian early Edwardian era, about 100 years ago, to just describe the body of beliefs and practices around fairies. And even when you read the the older material, which uses the term fairy faith, they never used it in that

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sense of this as a specific belief system or religion that people follow, it was always meant more faith in the sense of belief in. You know, people who believe in these beings, this is the beliefs, these are the beliefs, and this is the practices, these are the practices that are associated with those beliefs. And you do find them, you know, in this very widespread sort of manner and you find them associated with all sorts of different religions. You know, because fairies have this sort of interesting niche that they occupy where, you know, they're not strictly speaking gods, although, you know, there there gets to be a little fuzziness with some of them, but it allows for them to sort of fit in to other belief systems without necessarily contradicting things. There's actually some really fascinating books out there. Richard Firth Green has one called Elf Queens and Holy Friars, which talks about the way that Christianity struggled with kind of incorporating fairies during the medieval period. And how they sort of found this sort of, not exactly comfortable, but this way to make it work where particularly the, you know, what they return the common people but, you know, the majority If people could continue to have these beliefs and practices, and also consider themselves to be good Catholics, or good Protestants, you know, good, whatever type of Christian without having those fairy beliefs contradicting their Christian beliefs, which are generally very anti spirit, which isn't to say that Christianity is pro fairy because it's not and there's a lot of other stuff that went on with the church, putting a lot of effort into trying to force the beliefs out. But it is really fascinating to see how they just couldn't do it and so they they got absorbed into these other cosmologies. Sorry, this is a topic that really interests me, so...

Kanani 46:47

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No, I'm right there. I geek out on that stuff right there with you. It's, it transcends religions, formalized religions, and so as such formalized religions have had to incorporate that because otherwise people just wouldn't accept it to be true. It's a very good book by Richard Firth Green, I highly recommend it, Elf Queens and Holy Friars. Um, yeah, it's, it's, I think it demonstrates, you know, if you will, sort of the reality of these beings, that people were experiencing them and having these events occur, that you know, were explained through that belief system. And so even when this other dominant religion comes in, that tries to say, well, no, you know, you can't believe in those things because it doesn't fit in, people would not stop believing because to them that really was an aspect of their reality. So instead what happened is, you know, the the dominant religion got modified and then we start seeing stories about you know, fairies asking for baptism and if they're going to be saved in the end times and you know, just some really fascinating sort of overlapping theology going on, if you will. One of the books that you and I kind of briefly touched on was, I had mentioned to you one of the books I have, it's called The Secret Lives of Elves and Faeries from the private journal of the Reverend Robert Kirk. And that's a book that was written, just as it sound, it was written as a book and I believe the 1700s and has been used and kind of quoted as kind of fairy fact.

Morgan 48:46To be clear, the Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fauns and Faeries by Robert Kirk.

Kanani 48:54Yeah, I have that one, as well.

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Morgan 48:56 Yes, the the Secret Lives is actually fiction.

Kanani 49:00 Oh, Okay

Morgan 49:00It's kind of have a novel that was written by John Matthews in 2005 John Matthews, yep.

Kanani 49:08Yeah. Okay based off of The Secret Commonwealth.

Morgan 49:12He incorporated some material from the Secret Commonwealth he incorporated some pretty widespread spread folkloric motifs, the stolen bride, the borrowed midwife, things like that. And then he sort of fictionalized, the rest. It's sort of his imagining of what Reverend Kirk's personal life may have been like in his imagination.

Kanani 49:41Yeah, sorry, I said it backwards the the Elves Fauns and Faeries, The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fauns and Faeries by Robert Kirk. That was actually what I picked up from another book that had said it was the most, in their opinion, tt was the most comprehensive kind of old stories of, Elves, Fauns and Faeries. What what are your thoughts on that?

Morgan 50:07

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Oh, yeah, yeah, the Secret Commonwealth is absolutely fascinating. It was written in the 1690s by Reverend Kirk, who was a minister in Aberfoyle in Scotland. And he basically undertook what we might today characterize as this sort of anthropological study of fairies and gathered all of these different stories. He talked to a lot of local people and sort of tried to write about fairies, as if they were sort of like a neighboring culture. So he touches on all these different aspects of what fairies might be, what he thinks physically, they are, what they're known to do and eat and you know, they're potential language and clothing and all sorts of other things. The book also gets a lot into the second sight in Scotland, which is this ability to see events before they happen, ghosts, fairies, sort of different things. So that part of the book is about that, but quite a lot of it he, he sort of focuses on these different things around fairies, and it is definitely for the time period, the most thorough thing you're going to find. And he also really got into a lot more detail, even then later authors would. It's very concise, it's a very short book, but it does have a lot of depth to it, and how much it covers. It was not published until over 100 years after he had died.

Kanani 51:56I think 1815

Morgan 51:58Yeah. So, you know, it sat around for a while, I say it, which is a little misleading, he actually wrote it in a series of multiple little small journals, like picture pocket sized. You can still go visit them they're in two different museums in Scotland, his little notebooks. So, personally, I like to imagine Reverend Kirk, like wandering around Scotland with these little notebooks, interviewing people. Ask them about what they believed about fairies, and he does in the book also includes some of

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his own theories and ideas about their nature. So it's a really fascinating book, I do highly recommend it.

Kanani 52:44Do you have some particularly good stories that you would be willing to share of things that either you yourself have experienced or things that people have shared with you?

Morgan 52:55I have so many stories, wanna are a topic at me and maybe I could narrow it down a little?

Kanani 53:04Okay, okay, hold on something, something that's happened to you in your home.

Morgan 53:10Okay, um, I still have lots of those but, um, okay, the first one that probably immediately comes to mind is I think I touched on this a little before but I do see fairies, I do see otherworldly beings and I was sitting in my living room, and I kept seeing something moving across the room over by one of the outlets. I didn't think much of it but it was sort of persistent and I was getting ready to go pick, I believe my second child at the time was in preschool, so I was getting ready to go pick her up from preschool. But before I left the movement was getting so sort of annoying, but I figured I would go over and just look to see what was over there and right as I got over to where I had seen, it looked like maybe a foot high, foot and a half high little figure just kind of darting back and forth. Right as I got over to her I had seen it the outlet that was plugged in burst into flame. And because...

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Courtney Hoover 54:26Woah!

Morgan 54:28It's a true story actually pictures in the plug it was very dramatic.

Hilary 54:32That is dramatic

Morgan 54:33Because I was standing right next to it when it happened, I was able to immediately unplug it. So the plug melted and got a little toasty, but the wall was fine, the outlet was fine, nothing else caught on fire. I lost several years off my life I think. It was more than a little scary when it happened. But I I really feel like that was one of the house spirits kind of trying to help me out. If I hadn't gone over and checked it when I did if I had left to get my daughter, which is what I was getting up to do, probably would have had my house burned down, so it was definitely a much better outcome.

Courtney Hoover 55:17My feeling is they appeared in order to warn you, or do you think they were cause?

Morgan 55:23No, I think it was trying to get my attention. trying to warn me. I mean, it's a house spirit, so it this is its home also. So it obviously doesn't benefit the house spirit to have the house burned down either. And it

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just happened that I was there and because I was aware of it, it was able to get my attention. So it worked out well for everyone.

Kanani 55:49I think I've mentioned this to you as well, but I mentioned it earlier on, you know it's one of those you take it with a grain of salt, it's mostly just anecdotal stories, but one of the good, for people who are kind of interested. I think a good watch was The Fairy Faith the movie, the documentary.

Morgan 56:08Oh the documentary? Definitely.

Kanani 56:10Yeah, ecause it's, it's such a good example of, I think if people have one concept of these being like super sweet, you know, you know Tinkerbell type fairies. You know, one of the stories, the guy very specifically states, he's pretty sure they were trying to kill him, you know. And another story is, is an anecdote of a man who was made blind and a bunch of other stories, and they all have a very, kind of scary aspect to them. They're not just super fun, you know, it's so exciting. It was like, something was happening and I ran because I would know what was about to happen and it gives me much more to me true to life account of the people who who share in this faith and have these beliefs? These are the beliefs.

Morgan 57:04Right, right. Well, and I was gonna say, you know, speaking of more stories along those lines, I'll give you two. One of these is an anecdote from a friend of mine. She is a practicing witch now, but this was when

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she was a younger teenager and she wasn't into anything metaphysical at the time. She and a friend of hers, they lived in Pennsylvania, and I'm not going to remember what city off hand, so I apologize, but they were in a park and they, if I'm remembering this correctly the way she told me, they heard music so they kind of decided to go sort of see what was going on. I believe she was like 14 or 15 at the time, and it was nighttime, it was dark and they went into this wooded section and, from what she said, they encountered this being who looked sort of like a man but was clearly not human. And they were both immediately very terrified and turned and ran. And she said it felt like it was chasing her like she could feel it following her and very cold and they managed to get out of that section of the park and once they sort of left that immediate area, it stopped chasing them. And they turned around and it was just gone. So I am not retelling this nearly as well as she told it to me originally, there's a lot more terror and thinking you were not going to make it out of the park involved in this.

Kanani 58:44No, but that's very common story too is where a lot of people say like that is the first thing they hear is music. And a lot of times they describe it as an other worldly type of music.

Morgan 58:56Yeah, I've heard fairy music a few times in my life and it is really hard to describe. It does not sound like, it just doesn't sound like human music I don't know how else to say it. And at least one time that I heard it, it was terrifying, and there's no reason for it's not like it's not scary music, it's not like the theme song to horror movie or something. It's beautiful music but, it just, as soon as you hear it, there's this

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instinctive sort of atavistic terror that happens. And I don't know if that's what happened with her, you know, when they saw this being, or how that exactly played out for them, you know, running out of this park, but it definitely is a really intense feeling. And it's music when you hear that it's not like anything else. I can understand why she followed it into the woods.

Kanani 59:56That's part of the trick, I believe as well in that it's, it's captivating, and so it doesn't draw people to it, unless like you maybe have knowledge of what it might be in which case you run like hell.

Morgan 60:11Yes. You turn and go the other way. I'll tell you my second story really quickly, and then we can, you know, move on what your question was Courtney, but see, I think it was Kanani had mentioned blindness before. The person in the documentary who had the story in the documentary, right, the person had been blinded. So I've been doing this now actively for probably about 30 years. And when I went to Ireland in 2016, I had sort of this very intense initiatory experience. And I've studied this intensely for at least the last 10 or 15 years. And I'm saying all this just to establish that I should know what I'm doing and I'm not generally a foolish person, but I was in a situation where, even as someone with a lot of experience who has dealt with these beings for a long time, I annoyed them, basically, I didn't do something that they wanted me to do and I effectivly went blind for three days. I got a weird eye infection, that the doctors could not explain what it was. I did go to the emergency room, but the doctors were literally like you have an eye infection, but we have no idea why or what's causing it. And I spent three days basically unable to see until I rectified my behavior.

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So I have a lot of empathy for people that end up blinded by fairies and it's not fun. Do not recommend

Courtney Hoover 61:59So before you came on we had a very rousing discussion about why we hate Peter Pan and watching. Tinkerbell is problematic in many ways. And so I'm curious of all the modern pop culture depictions of fairies, is there one that you just really irks you? That you'd say if anything, avoid modeling your belief on fairies on this specific depiction?

Morgan 62:28That's such a deep question. I mean, I can name several sources and then I will be getting like rocks thrown through my windows but I will say that while I totally agree about the Tinkerbell thing, because she was sort of the bridge between, because she does have a little of that folkloric means, she tries to kill Wendy, fairy going on. But she she is the template for that Victorian, tiny ,petite winged, female fairy that now plagues everywhere. But I think the biggest trope currently that causes me to twitch and froth at the mouth a little bit is probably the emo Unseelie boyfriend.

Courtney Hoover 63:17Oh, noooo.

Morgan 63:19Oh, yes. It's such a big thing and young adult, urban fantasy and even some adult, urban fantasy. And I really have seen a significant shift in the last 10 years, with people in some corners of the community. starting to really, kind of, fall into that mindset. The Unseelie are

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actually the good guys, the unseelie court is actually the more honest, better court. Everyone wants an emo Unseelie boyfriend.

Kanani 63:58For people who do not know what that is. Would you explain what that is?

Morgan 64:02Oh yeah, context would probably help. Um so in in Scottish folklore, specifically lowland Scottish folklore, there are said to be two groups of fairies. There's the Seelie who are, Seelie means like blessed, lucky, fortunate. And they're generally the more benevolent fairies. They're the ones who will give you a warning before they blind you so that you can apologize. And then there's the Unseelie, sort of the opposite of Seelie, just means like unholy, unlucky, unfortunate, and those are the ones that usually will try to eat you. Kelpies water horses, are usually in that classification. Anything that's just going to actively try to cause you harm, no matter what you've done, kind of falls into that Unseelie grouping, traditionally, and a lot of modern cases people kind of break that down into good fairies and bad fairies, but that's a major oversimplification. But even that asid, like the Unseelie fairies are not going to be the ones who you just need to give a hug and a biscuit to and there'll be your buddies.

Courtney Hoover 65:21It seems like it seems to me this emo Unseelie court, it just kind of feels like it's, it's, it's LARPing Twilight, but with elf pointy ears and fairy wings.

Hilary 65:31

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Yes

Courtney Hoover 65:31It just sounds like the Twilight movies. Just people are taking that a little too seriously. And you don't want a vampire boyfriend either, actually, and you don't want an Unseely boyfriend. So let's just, that should go down in our dating rules don't date Peter Pan, Unseelie or vampires. Thank you for coming to our TED Talk sincerel, Kanani, Hilary and Courtney.

Morgan 65:54Yeah, no, it's it's true though. Um, on Facebook, I have a page called the fae propaganda department.

Courtney Hoover 66:02(Laughing)

Morgan 66:05It's a lot of fun, you should check it out. But I'll often post things that are basically like don't, don't jump into fairy rings, don't you know, do the silly thing or you're going to end up, you know, taken by the fairies and you're not going to enjoy it. And the amount of comments that I get from people who are like Oh, that's awesome, you know, fairy lord come take me away. And

Hilary 66:27NO

Morgan 66:28

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right? When you look at the folklore, the majority of the folklore the vast, vast majority, the folklore, when people do get taken by the fairies, it's usually not a good time for the human. You know, they get taken as a food source, you know, which is not something the humans ever gonna like. They get taken as a servant. And that's not like, I think people these days when they think servant, they have this weird modern, capitalists servant in mind, like you're working some minimum wage job as a maid somewhere. That's not what this is going to be like this, you know, think about like 1000 years earlier. You know this this is going to be two sets of clothes a year, two meals a day if you're lucky and scrubbing chamber pots and fireplaces for the rest of your existence

Courtney Hoover 67:24Sleeping on cold stone floors by the fire ashes.

Morgan 67:28Right? Right. Like, you know, I think people need to kind of recalibrate a little bit when they're grasping what taken as a fairy servant means and a lot of stories to where humans get taken to be a servant, if they mess up, the consequences are really unpleasant. You know, so it's also not a job where you get to make a couple mistakes and it's okay. And then you know the other option, you get taken, you end up effectively as kind of breeding stock, and that's definitely not in the super fun Unseelie emo boyfriend way. This is more in the we need to repopulate our numbers, you could be useful for that kind of way.

Courtney Hoover 68:12Like A Handmaids Tale way?

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Morgan 68:15Yes, actually that's a that's an excellent analogy, exactly like that.

Kanani 68:20So since hopefully we have appropriately scared people to the concepts of the fair folk, which I think is a good thing.

Morgan 68:32Particuarly after that segment.

Kanani 68:33But what about, what are some things that people who are interested in the practice or learning about it, what are things that people can do to please the good neighbors or make sure that they're doing right in trying to kind of incorporate them into their practice or acknowledge them? What are what are the things that people can do to kind of make sure that they're on the right side?

Morgan 68:59Right? After we've laid that lovely groundwork, which is a good thing, I think.

Kanani 69:04 It's important groundwork, so...

Morgan 69:06It is, it is, um, you know, and that's also just the reality, you know, if you're going to go into this you have to be realistic, as it were. I've seen a lot of people who just try to completely ignore any folklore, any anecdotal account that's negative and, you know, that's just not a safe

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thing to do. I like to, I hate, I should say, I hate to use comparisons to human world animals, because I think you also don't want to underestimate and start thinking fairies are like animals and are not intelligent or, you know, what have you, not that I'm saying animals aren't intelligent, but, you know, I do like to compare it to like, if you want to learn how to work with wolves, you have to accept the entirety of the behaviors. You know, you have to accept that they're carnivores, you have to accept that they can be dangerous or you can't do it safely. And, you know, I think the first step really, if you want to deal with or work with fairies, is to look at as much of that folklore as you can, and kind of try to understand, first of all the scope of what you're dealing with because, as we touched on a little bit earlier, talking about fairies being human size, there's such a huge range. There's so many beings that fall into this umbrella of what we would call a fairy, you know, an otherworldly being, and some of them definitely are on the slightly safer, more benevolent side, and many of them are not, and you you kind of have to try to really study as much of that as you can, even if you just pick one particular culture, like my main focus is Irish, but sort of learn that whole scope so that you have some context, and you know what you're dealing with and what the potential outcomes are for different things. You know, another really important thing, in my opinion, is grasp that they are not human. They get anthropomorphized so much, that a lot of people come into it thinking that they're basically just dealing either with tiny little humans with wings, or with human size, otherworldly beings that are effectively human. that they're going to have human emotions, that they're going to have a human thought process and they're just really not. We see that in the folklore, we see that with the anecdotes, I've seen that my own experiences. They they have a very foreign way of looking at things and understanding things. And you know, if we had more time, I could give some more concrete

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examples of that, but the important part is just to understand that no matter what they look like, they are not humans and they have their own system of etiquette, they have their own expectations for how someone is going to act, for how a human interacting with them was going to act, and they really don't react well when people vary from that. They tend to just expect that humans will deal with them the way they expect to be dealt with and it's super important to learn that and that etiquette varies from culture to culture. So, you know, to give a slightly more concrete example, the the Irish Daoine Sidhe she do not tend to be super forgiving. If you miss step with them, or if you insult them, their reactions tend to be kind of extreme And they don't generally really grade on much difference. Her, whereas the alfar, huldufolk, the Norse elves, if you will, they tend to be a little more generous in nature, and they also tend to be more understanding of humans and forgiving of human mistakes and dealing with them slightly. I'm not saying that they will just, you know, blank it you can get away with anything with them. But comparatively, it's a big thing in Celtic language folklore, particularly Irish, that you should never eat fairy food. If you eat fairy food, you'll be trapped in fairy or bound to fairies unable to leave. In contrast, in a lot of Norse folklore, Norse cultural folklore, particularly dealing with the alfar, if they offer you food, you don't want to refuse it because that's very rude and that will offend them. So these are specific details that you kind of need to learn. It's almost like learning how to deal with an entirely different culture. You want to learn the manners and expected behaviors, things like that. So those are two really important things to start with and I, obviously, I've done this for a long time so I'm not telling people absolutely don't ever, you know, work with or deal with fairies. I know some people have a lot of passion for it, some people are just very drawn to it. You know, some people are kind of in the position I was in where they can see or

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interact with these beings, so you sort of have to learn how to, out of self defense, because you don't have a choice. So, you know, sometimes it's just inevitable. Some people this is the basis of their witchcraft is dealing with spirits dealing with otherworldly beings. And, you know, in all those cases, start with the folklore, start with learning the etiquette, beyond that you want to look at building specific connections, make offerings, try to reach out to particular beings, I usually recommend people start with house spirits, house fairies, because those tend to be the most inclined to be receptive to that sort of thing and they're also, you know, you're very connected to them anyway just because of their nature, and everyone has them. I've talked about that in some of my writing, whether you live in an apartment building or a brand new house, or a hotel, or, you know, any sort of structure that you live in is going to have house spirits. If you don't happen to live in a structure, if you are, you know, in a tent, if you're in a car, if you're, you know, not in a structured situation, there are still going to be the spirits around you, and there's ways to reach out and connect to the things that are, are the most present, if that makes sense. So those are sort of the three main steps that I recommend people start with and everyone hates that. I start with the homework before you get to the fun stuff.

Hilary 76:21Yeah, but that's, that's the important stuff.

Morgan 76:24I think so. I've had enough negative experiences, and enough things that have happened that, you know, obviously I haven't died, which I really appreciate so far, but there was the whole going blind thing and other stories that I didn't tell you. I've had enough negative experiences

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myself to have a really healthy respect for what these beings can do, if they are motivated to or if you're just unlucky enough to end up crossing the wrong trail, as it were, so, you know, I always think it's better to be prepared, know how to protect yourself, know how to avoid the most, you know, sort of dangerous mistakes and go from there.

Kanani 77:16I think that's awesome. I think that's I think that's great advice. Lke I said, I bought both your books, I recommend them highly, highly. I've been learning about, about the fae since we were 18. So I've been, you know, learning about this for the last 20 years and your books were phenomenal. I mean, I've read, you know, a bunch of books on the topic and I loved your books. I thought they were really good. I felt like they were easy to read. They were digestible. They offered some really good, some really good suggestions and whatnot. It's, it captivated me that you wrote that they don't like being called it, because for a long time I stopped calling it fairy and started saying fe and I didn't really know why now, I think I prefer the term fair folk. But it just didn't feel right to say fairy, and I think because in my head when you say that it gives a very, you know, cartoon Disney version of of what you're talking about, and that's just not at all what you're talking about. So, I mean, your books were tremendous, I definitely recommend them, your YouTube channel, actually, I've started watching and I just love it, some of your videos have been really fun, they've been really great.

Morgan 78:38Thank you.

Kanani 78:38

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I definitely, I encourage people to kind of, you know, guardedly walk into this if they want but I think you're right, I mean, the best way to get someone talking about this or looking into this is to give them that respectful fear and understanding of what it is and what it isn't.

Morgan 78:58Right and you know, that's why use the comparison, like if you want to work with Wolves. You know, I would also say like, it's, it's the same thing if you want to go hiking, you know, you have to know how to take care of yourself. You can't just go off walking, because if something bad happens, you need to know what to do.

Kanani 79:18Yeah, I'm gonna die. That's what would happen if I went hiking. I can't.

Courtney Hoover 79:22This is true

Kanani 79:24Like 10 minutes in, I'm toast. I'm off a cliff or something. It's not going to go well.

Courtney Hoover 79:29NO c'mon. No, she's being dramatic. What it means is she would just get annoyed because she wouldn't be able to find a Dairy Queen nearby, so she'd sit down and pout and say she wants to go home.

Kanani 79:37Right and then I wouldn't get up to walk back, because I wouldn't know where to go. That's what I'm saying. All right. Well, Morgan, thank you

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so much for joining us and we're gonna have links for all your good stuff. We'll make sure we have a link for the Facebook Fae Propaganda Department, which I've already liked, and I'm already now a part of.

Courtney Hoover 79:57Oh god

Morgan 79:57It's 100% rediculousness

Kanani 80:00It's fabulous. I love it. And so, you know, we'll have all your links for your books and everything, and I recommend people you know, check out your YouTube and I just, I really appreciate you coming on because you're just, you totally geek out over the things that I love to geek out abou and the things I like to geek out about frankly are few and far between. So I was very, very excited to have you on.

Morgan 80:24Thank you all for having me.

Kanani 80:26Well, thank you everybody for joining us for another episode of That Witch Life Podcast. Be sure to check out our Instagram and our you can check out our Facebook page. We also have our Etsy shop with our cards and bumper stickers and stickers. We'll have more bonus content next week while we're all doing our stay at home thing. So thank you guys for joining us and please follow us on our different pages and check out our website. We've got lots of links for all the

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resources we discussed today. And thank you guys and we'll talk to you soon.

Courtney Hoover 81:00Bye everybody

Hilary 81:12(Screaming goat sound)

(Exit Music) 81:13Join us on the first and third Mondays of the month for magickal tools, tips and stories about living as a Witch in today's world. Find us at ThatWitchLife.com for archived episodes or to ask your burning questions for us to answer on a future podcast. So mote it be!

Morgan 81:26And for the record, if you are hiking for 10 minutes and find a dairy queen in the middle of the woods that is 100% a trap and you should not eat that food.

Courtney Hoover 81:35Oh SO true, Morgan

Kanani 81:38That's how they're going to get me.

Hilary 81:41Oh my god, it's gonna be your demise.

Kanani 81:45

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My husband told me that if he ever kills me, he's gonna poison my donut someday. And I told him, I'm like, I'll totally eat that doughnut. He's like, I know. Like, I didn't even know it was coming and I'd still eat the doughnut.

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