172- how to understand your genes to personalize your diet ... · 3 page report that explains all...

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Episode172:HowtoUnderstandYourGenestoPersonalizeYourDietWithNutritionGenome


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyFourSigmatic.Mykitchenisalwaysstockedwiththeircoffeemushroomblends,theirMatchamix,andtheirstraightmushroomdrinks.FourSigmatichasfiguredouthowtogetthebenefitsofmushroomslikechaga,lionsmane,cordycepsandreishiintodeliciousinstantdrinks.Mycurrentfavoriteistheiradaptogencoffeeblendthathastolsiandastragalus.ButIlovealloftheirproducts.Theyhaveoptionswithorwithoutcaffeinesoifyou’renotacaffeinepersonyoucanfindproductsthatyouwilllove.AndIfindthateventheircoffeeblendsthatdocontaincaffeinehavelessthananormalcupofcoffee.Butdon’tletthisfoolyou.IhavefoundthatIgetsomuchmorefocusandmentalclarityfromthesemushroomblendsthanIdofromregularcoffee,andwithoutthejitters.Theadditionofthemushrooms,whichareconsiderednootropics,meaningthattheyaregoodforthebrainmakesthesesuperfoodblendsmoreeffectiveandmuchhealthierthanjustregularoldcoffee.Ilovethemwithadashofmacadamiamilkpersonally.Ialsolovethatmanyoftheirdrinkmixesareinstantandpackagedintoindividualservingssotheyareperfectfortraveloronthego.Ifyou’relisteningtothis,thenyoucangetaspecialofferjustforlistenersofthispodcastbygoingtowellnessmama.com/go/four-sigmatic.

ThispodcastisalsobroughttoyoubyGoodCulture.GoodCulturemakesamazingcottagecheese.Iknow,Iknow,notnecessarilytwowordsyouwouldputinthesamesentenceoneverydayspeaking.Buttheirsisawesome,Ipromise,evenifyoudon’tlovecottagecheese.Basically,it’snaturallyfermentedcottagecheesesoit’sfreeofgums,fillers,andadditivesandit’spackedwithprobiotics.Andbecauseit’smadenaturallyitdoesn’thavethatweirdmouthfeelthatalotofcottagecheesehas.So,Iuseitallthetimeincookingandsmoothiesasasubstituteforothertypesofcheese,orjustamealonthego.YoucanfinditatWholeFoodsandmanyothergrocerystoresanditcomesinyogurt-sizedcupstoo,andthoseareperfectformeals.Checkthemout.It’sGoodCultureandtheyareavailableatmanygrocerystores.

Katie:Helloandwelcometo,"TheHealthyMomsPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com.Andthisepisodeisgoingtobefascinating,especiallyifyou'veeverwonderedaboutyourgenesandwhattheyactuallymeanforyourhealthandforyourlifebecauseIamherewithAlexSwanson,whoisthefounderofNutritionGenomeandthecreatorofthesoftwareGenetrition,whichIhopeI'mpronouncingright.He'sasecond-generationnutritionistandco-owneroftheSwansonHealthCenter,whichisaprivatefamilyclinicalnutritionpracticethat'sbeeninbusinessforover40years.He'salsothecreatorofthepopularblog,TheHealthBeat.AndheisawealthofknowledgeprobablythemostknowledgeablepersonI'veeverspokentoonthistopic.AndI'llmakesuretomentionthisagainattheendoftheepisode.ButAlexhasgenerouslyofferedadiscounttoanyonelisteningonthenutritiongenometesting.Youcansave10%withthecode,wellnessmama,bygoingtowellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome.Sowe'llrepeatthatattheend.It'llbeintheshownotes.But,Alex,welcomeandthanksforbeinghere.Alex:Thankyousomuchforhavingme.Katie:Ithinkthisisgonnabeanamazingepisode.AndIcan'twaitforeveryonetolisteninbecauseIcouldliterallytalktoyoualldayaboutthis,andwe'veactuallygottentotalkbeforewhenIranmygenes,andmyhusband's,andallofourchildren,andyoukindofhelpedmeunderstandallthedifferentgeneticcomponentsandwhatwewerelookingatbasically.Andyourcompanyalsoprovides,I'llsaythisatthebeginning,a50plus


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pagereportthatexplainsallthatindetail.ButIwannagetintosomeofthespecificsondifferentgenesandwhattheymeanordon'tmeantodaybecauseIknowthisisanareaofalotofconfusion.There'salotofinformationoutthere.Andifyoujustgetyourgenestestedandthenstartfromscratch,itcanseemveryoverwhelming.Sotostartwithactually,I'dlovetohearalittlebitofyourstoryandhowdidyougetintothisinthefirstplaceintogenetictesting,becauseit'sdefinitelynotlikeaneasyfieldtojustjumpinto.Howdidyougethere?Alex:Well,Ihadaclinicalnutritionpracticeforalittleovertenyears.Andaboutfiveyearsago,thatwaswhenthegeneMTHFRkindofstartedtocomeintheconsciousnessofpractitionersandthepublic,andpeoplewantedtoknowwhattheirgenotypewasforit.AndsoIkindofstartedlookingintoitalittlebitmoreduringthattime,butitreallycaughtmyattentionactuallywhenmywifecametomewithsomequestionsregardingthishorriblepharmaceuticaldrugreactionshehadafewyearsback.Anditwasreallyscarybecauseit'sactuallylife-threatening.Andnobodyreallygaveheranexplanationastowhathappenedorwhy.Andshereallywantedtoknowbecauseshewasafraid,"Couldthishappenagain.Whydidithappen?"SoIstarteddoingalotofresearchatthattimeongeneticsandtryingtofigureout,youknow,basicallythepathwaysthatwereinvolvedwiththesedrugs,andwhatcouldhaveessentiallygonewrong.Andthatledmedownthishugejust,youknow,rabbitholeofresearchofpilingtogetherahugedatabaseofallthegenesthatIcouldfind,alltheresearchIcouldfind,drawingoutallofthesebiochemicalpathways,andfinallyarrivingatananswerandbeingabletofigureitout,andunderstandthisonalevelIneverdidbefore.AndIrealizedthatthiswassuchanincredibletoolforaclinicalpracticebecauseyoucouldstartgettinganswerstothingsthatdidn'treallymakesense.Andthat'swhenIstartedusingitmoreandmoreinpracticeandwithclients.Andovertheyears,itbecamethenutritiongenomereport,whichwasthesoftware,andthedatabase,andeverythingfromthepublishedresearchfindingstomyclinicalfindingsaswell.Katie:Superfascinating.AndI'mgladthatyoustartedwithMTHFRbecausethat'sdefinitelyprobablyoneofthemostwell-knowngeneticproblemsthatpeoplehaveheardaboutnow.Iknowthere'salotofinformationoutthere,butforanyonewhomaybeisn'tasfamiliarwithit,canyoukindofjustgiveabriefoverviewandthenlikewhatthatcanactuallytellusaboutwhat'sgoingoninourbody?Alex:Sure.SoMTHFRhastodowithfolatemetabolismandthefolatecycle.Andthereasonitstartedgettingsomuchattentioniswestartedseeingthatpeoplehaveawidedegreeoffolaterequirements.Andsomepeopledo...canbreakdownsyntheticfolicacid,whichisdifferentfromfolate.Andsomepeopledonotbreakitdownwell,andtheydomuchbetterwithmethylfolateorfolinicacid,whichisfullyfoundinfood.Andthisisareallyimportantpointbecausethereareactuallymultiplegenesinvolvedinthefolatecycle.There'sonecalledDHFRandthenMTHFD1,andthenthere'sMTHFR.Sotheyallkindofgoinorderatthefolatecycle.AndDHFRiswhatbreaksdownfolicacidintothefolatecycle.Now,whenyouhavevariantsinthatgene,itcanactuallydisruptthatprocess,anditcanbottleneck.Andwhenitbottlenecks,itputsallthisunmetabolizedfolicacidinthebloodstream,andthenitactuallyinhibitsMTHFR.Andthatcanbereallyproblematic.SoproblematicthattherewasastudythatcameoutrecentlyfromJohnsHopkinsUniversitythatfoundthatveryhighcirculatingfolicacidlevelsinlow-incomecommunitiesdoubledtheriskofautism.B12levelsthatwereveryhigh,unmetabolizedinthebloodtripledtheriskofautism.Andifbothlevelswerehigh,theriskincreasedto17.6times.Sowhenyoulookatfolicacidsupplementationorfortifiedfoodswithfolicacid,thatcanbeareallybigproblem.AndIthinkit'ssomethingthatreallyhasn'tbeentalkedaboutenough.


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Katie:Iagree.Andthat'soneofthethings...Idon'tknowifmanypeoplerealizethatistheproblemwithmoderngrainsbecauseImean,there'salotofobviouslycontroversialinformationoutthereaboutwhetherweshouldconsumegrainsatall,andwhichones,andgluten-freeversusnot.Butoneofthepointsofthatisthatformostofhistory,peopleweregrindingupgrainsandthenusingthemrightaway.Theywerefreshgroundandtheyweregroundmuchmorecoarselythantheyarenow.Butwhenthey'regroundfresh,theyhavemorenatural,fromwhatIbelieve,naturalfolate.Theydon'thavetheinhibitorsandtheyarejustmorebioavailableversusthehighlyprocessedoneswehavenowthatdon'thavethat.SotheyactuallyaddinfolicacidfromwhatI'veread.Isthatyourunderstandingaswell?Alex:That'scorrect,yeah.Katie:Yeah.Andsothen,that'samuchbiggersourcethanwewouldhaveevergottenonatraditionaldietevenifitincludedgrains.AndIthinkthat'sanimportantpointtokeepinmind.Itseemslikefrommyresearch,theMTHFRisespeciallyimportantduringpregnancybecauseitcanaffectpregnancy.ButIknowalotofthemomslisteningareeitherpregnantorwouldliketobecomepregnantatsomepoint.SoI'dloveifwecouldkindofstartatthebeginningthere.Andtalkaboutoneofthemostimportantfactorsthatweneedtounderstandaboutourgeneticsduringpregnancy.Andlikeifyougetagenetictest,whatcanyoulookattoseewhatyouneedtodo?Alex:Sure.SothetwomostimportantnutrientsIwouldsay,ifyou'regonnapointouttwo,wouldbefolateandcholine.Andthereasonis,isthattheyplayamajorroleinturninggenesonandoff.Sothisisaprocesscalledmethylation.Andmethylationaffectsbrainfunctionandmood,fertility,immunity,preventingmiscarriage,detoxification,hormones,andjustoverallDNAhealth.AndsomethingIalsowantedtomentionregardingfolateandMTHFRisthere'salotoffearthatkindofsurroundsMTHFR,like,youhavepeoplesay,"Oh,Ihavethe,youknow,MTHFRmutation.Ihavethehomozygousvariant,"andthere...Idon'tthinkthatfearreallyneedstoexistbecausewhenyoustarttolookatgenesingeneralandhowwestartedtogetthesedifferentvariantsbasedonourenvironment,ourdiet,ourstress,ourmigrationroutes,there'sareasonwehavethese.AndwithMTHFR,thatessentiallymeansthatyouhaveanincreasedneedforriboflavin,whichisB2tostabilizeit,andmethylfolate,whichisbasicallybypassingthatenzymebecauseit'ssloweddown.Soyouhavethisincreasedneed.AndbasedontheresearchthatI'vedoneandhowothergeneshavechanged,it'slikelyduetohavingahighintakeoveraperiodoftimeoffolate,amethylfolatethatslowedthatenzymedownbecauseyouweregettingenoughdietarily.Andtherefore,yourbodykindofadaptedtothatsoitcouldputenergyelsewhere.AndwhenyoustarttolookatwherethehighestfrequenciesareofthehomozygousMTHFRgenotype,it'sactuallyinMexico,SouthernItaly,Spain,andFrance,allwarmerclimateswherethere'smorefolatefoodsavailable.SoIthinkremovingthatfearisareallyimportantpointwithMTHFRingeneral.Butfolateintakecanvary.AndIthinkthat'swhyit'sreallyimportanttogetthattesttoseeallofthosegenes,howwelldoyoubreakdowneverythinginthefolatecycle,orthe,youknow,themethylationcycle.Andthat'swherealsocholinecomesin.Andcholineisunbelievablyimportant.Ithinkit'sbecomingmoreandmorethefocusnowwithpregnancyandrealizingthatwe'vebeendeprivingpeopleofcholine.Choline'shighestineggyolks,it'shighestinorganmeats,it'shighestinwildmeat,it'shighestinthethighmeatversusthebreast.Andsopeoplethathavebeentoldtoeateggwhites,thechickenbreast,avoidorganmeats,allofthiskindofthisdogmathat'sbeen


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persistingoverthelastfewdecadeswe'restarvingpeopleofcholine.Andcholineisessentiallyinthatmethylationcycleaswell.Ithinkit's60%ofthemethylationreliesoncholine,andwomenrequiremuchmore.Alotoftimes,you'llseemuchmorevariancewithwomen.It'sconnectedtoestrogen.Andforpregnancy,theamountsgouptremendously.Imean,thethirdtrimester,youhaveveryhighneedsforcholine,andthat'sextremelyimportantforthebrainhealthforthebaby.Katie:That'sfascinating.AndIthinkit'sagreatexampleofwhywecan'tjustlookatonegeneinisolationlikeMTHFRandbelike,"Oh,IjustneedtotakemethylfolateandthenI'llbefine,"becausethere'ssomanythingsthatworktogetherforthattohappen.Andthat'sreallyinterestingaboutthepregnancy,andthecholine,andthatincreasedneed,becauseIknowfromreadingandresearchalotoftraditionalcultures,whenawomanwaspregnant,theyfedheranincrediblynutrient-densedietthatincludedlotsoforganmeats,andeggyolks,andgreenfoods,andallthosethingsyoujustmentioned.Sothat'ssuperfascinatingthatIfeelliketherewasprobablytraditionalwisdomthatcultureshavehadforyears.Andwe'refinallygettingaroundtotheresearchsideofunderstandingwhyitwassobeneficial.Alex:Yeah,Iagree.Katie:SoanothergenethatdefinitelycomesupalotwhenpeoplearetalkingaboutgenesandriskfactorsistheBRCAgenes,whichIknowthosearetypicallytiedforwomenwhohaveahistoryofbreastorovariancancerintheirfamily.Obviously,thoseareveryscarytopeoplewhoaretoldthattheyhavethat.Isthereanythingthatwecandotostrengthenthesegenesortoavoidtheproblems?Iknowyousayandyou'rewritingalotthatyourgenesarenotyourdestiny,they'rejustablueprint.AndIfeellikemaybethisisonegreatplacetouseasanexamplebecauseitcanseemveryscarycertainlytosomeonewhofindsouttheyhadthat.Butwhatshould...Howcansomeonelookattheirgeneticpossibilityofthat?Alex:Yeah.SotheBRCA,alsoknownasBRCAgenes,BRCA1andBRCA2,sothesearetumorsuppressergenes.They'retypicallytestedbydoctorstohelpdeterminebreastandovariancancerriskthatrunsinfamilies,andthetypeofcanceristypicallyestrogennegative.Thereisalotoffearagainsurroundingthesegenes.AndIthinkit'salsobecausethey'rekindofputoutinisolationwithoutanyexplanationastowhatarethey,howdotheywork,whatiscausingdamagetothem,howcanwemakethemstronger?Andthat'skindofourwholeapproach,issaying,"Okay,thesearethegenes.Thisiswhattheydo.Howdotheyinteractwithalltheseothergenes?Andhowdowestrengthenthewhole?"AndsoforBRCA,becausethey'reconnectedtoDNArepair,wehavetothink,whatiscausingDNAdamagethattheBRCAgenesarestrugglingtokeepupwith.Andsotheanswerthereisactuallydioxins.Anddioxinsarethesereallytoxiccompoundsinourenvironment.They'rethebyproductsofherbicideproduction,thechlorinebleachingprocessatpapercompanies,thecombustionoffossilfuels,andtheburningofindustrialwaste.Andwhat'sreallyinterestingaboutthisisthatdioxinconcentrationswerenotreallysignificantuntilthe1920s.That'swhenitstartedwiththechemicalindustry.Anddioxinsaccumulate.Sotheymaketheirwayupthefoodchainintothefatofanimals,whichgetspassedontous.So90%ofourexposuretodioxinsactuallycomefromanimalfat.Andthat'sbasedontheiranimalfeed,andifthatpasturethatthey'regrazingiscontaminatedwithdioxins.Andtheydidresearchactuallylookingatdifferenttypesofdairy,whetherit'scow,goat,sheep.Anddependingonthelocation,itvariedquiteabit.Somehadveryhighamountsofdioxins.ThemostpotentoneiscalledTCDD.Andthat'stheonethatresearchhasfoundreallyharmstheBRCAgenes.Itactuallyepigeneticallysilencesthem,whichstimulatestheseDNAstrandbreaks.SoIwouldsaythatdairywouldbe


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somethingthatmostpeople,iftheyhavedonethistesting,theyhavebreastandovariancancerintheirfamilymaywanttothinktwiceabout,orbereallycarefulaboutyoursource.Butwhat'sreallyhelpfultoknowisthattheyactuallylookedat...theresearcherslookedatTCDDandresveratrol.AndresveratrolactuallywasabletoreducetheinducedDNAstrandbreaksthatactuallyprotectedtheBRCAgenes.AndtheyrealizedthatitactuallycouldsupporttheBRCAgenebyincreasingresveratrolonthediet,sothatwouldberedwine,peanuts,pistachios,blueberries,bilberries,cranberries,cacao,andmuscadinegrapes.Andsothatwasreallyone,we'relike,"Okay,here'ssomethingwecando.Resveratrolincrease,decreasedairy."Anotheronewouldbethattheresearchersfoundthatiftheyconsume...thesewomenconsumedupto27differentfruitsandvegetablesaweek,theysawtheircancerriskdiminishedby73%.SothisvarietyofplantfoodswithindietseemsreallyimportantforthatDNArepair.Again,cholinecomesup,thePEMTgene,whichisconnectedtocholine.TheyfoundthatalowcholineintakewasassociatedwithmorefrequentBRCA1promotermethylations,whichmeansyouhadanincreasedcancerrisk.SothatcholineintakebecomesimportantforstabilizingtheBRCAgenesaswell.Katie:That'ssuperfascinating,andsoillustrativeofhow…like,exactlywhatyousayinyourwritingsooftenthatourgenesarenotourdestiny.Andthatbecause…fromwhatyou'resayingtherearenowscientificstudiesthatshowthatourenvironmentandourfoodsupplydo,infact,directlyimpactourgenesandwhethertheyareexpressedornot.Isthatright?Alex:That'sright,exactly.Katie:That'ssuperfascinating.Iknowanothergenethatcomesupalot,andmyparentsIthinkareresearchingquiteabitrightnowistheApoE,becausethere'satietoanincreasedriskofAlzheimer'sdisease.AndasIthinkpeoplehittheir60sand70s,that'sanimportantonethattheywannaknowabout.Doesthesamethingapplyhere?AretherestrategiesthathelppeoplewhohavetheApoEthatreducetheriskofAlzheimer's?Alex:Absolutely,yeah.ApoEisanotherfascinatinggene.Andagain,yeah,alotoffearattachedtothesegenes.AndIthinktherearealotofgenesweneedtolookatwhenitcomestoAlzheimer'sbecausewithApoE,youknow,peoplewhohavethe,what'scalledtheE4/E4genotype,whichisconsideredthehighestriskgenotype.NoteverybodywhohasthatgenotypegetsAlzheimer's.AndnoteveryonewhohasAlzheimer'shasthatgenotype.Youknow,there'salotmoretoit.ButIthinkthisdoesgiveagoodclueastowhatweneedtodotobeproactiveandtoputinthesepreventiontechniquesthatareeffective.SoApoEiswhat'scalledacholesteroltransporter.Ithelpsremovetoxins,anditessentiallyhelpsmaintainthehealthofthebrainneurons.AndthethingwithApoEisit'sactuallyatradeoffgene,it'skindoffascinating.SotheE4/E4genotypeisconsideredthehunter,gatherergenotypebeforeagriculture.Soagriculturecameinandthat'swhenwestartedseeingthesetwosandthrees.That'sthehypothesisanyway.AndsowhattheyfoundwasthatApoE,theE4/E4isactuallybeneficialinmanyways.Itcanpreventmiscarriage,stillbirth,infectiousdiseases,itincreasesearlycognitiveability,anditincreasesvitaminDandcalciumabsorptionforstrongerbones.Andthenthetradeoffisthatthere'sareducedabilitytorepairinjuriestothebrain.SothisreallymadesenseduringthattimeperiodforaspeciestoselectApoE4becauseearlylifesurvivalwasabigthreat.WecouldtalkaboutonAlzheimer's,soI'lltrytokindakeepthispartbrief.Butifyoulookattheresearchonwhat'sproventobebeneficialforAlzheimer's,youseeshadesofthehunter,


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gathererdiet,longerfastingtimes,routinedinnerandbreakfast,alittlegrainandsugar,alittletonodairy,emphasisonproteinandfiberforahealthybloodsugar.BloodsugarhasareallystrongconnectiontoApoE,andinflammation.Andbecausethereisareducedabilitytorepair,youwannabeverycarefulofhighcontactsports,or,youknow,anythingthat'sgonnaincreaseyourriskofconcussionsbecausethatincreasesyourriskofAlzheimer'sespeciallyifyouhaveadelayedrepair.Forwomen,weseethattwo-thirdsofAlzheimer'spatientsarewomen.Sothere'sobviouslyahormoneconnectionhere.Andresearchershavefoundthatwhentheyhavewomenwhoremovetheirovariesbyage40,andtheydon'tdohormonereplacementtherapy,theydoubletheriskofAlzheimer'sdisease.Soweseeaconnectionwiththeestrogen.SothethingsthatIthinkofisthatwithApoE4E4forwomen,it'sreallyimportanttoreallylowerstresslevelsingeneral.Anythingthat'sgonnabecausinginflammationisgonnabeaproblem.Butstressingeneralwillbasicallyrobyourhormones.Itwilldepletepregnenolone,whichisthatprecursorhormonetoestrogenandprogesterone.Sopregnenoloneisactuallyneuroprotectiveanditboostsmemory.Soweshowaconnectionthere.ThesecondoneagainisPEMTforcholine.Cholinehasaverystrongconnectiontomemory,andit'sstimulatedbyestrogen.Andtherearedrugscalledanticholinergicdrugs.Theseareyournighttimepainrelievers,antihistamines,sleepaids,antidepressants,theyallblockacetylcholineproduction.Andthey'veallbeenfoundtoincreasetheriskofcognitivedecline.SoIthinkthePEMTgenealongwithestrogenlevelsaretwomajorfactorsforcognitivedecline.Katie:Well,andasamomlisteningtothis,I'mthinking,sopeoplewhohavethatApoE4E4whatyousaid,theyhaveahigherriskof…ortheyarenotasquicktorecoverfromaconcussionorabraininjury.Soevenforamomwhowe'renotasworriedwithourkidsandAlzheimer'satthistimeintheirlife,thatwouldbesomething.AndoneofthereasonsIwaslookingatgettingthekidstestedisIwannaknowthatbeforethey'replayingcontactsportsorthingslikethatbecauseobviously,childrencanoccasionallygetconcussionsorespeciallyifthey'reinmorehigh-risksports,butthatseemslikethatwouldbereallygoodtoknowearlyinlifesowecanmakesurewe'reprotectingourchildren'sbrainsfromtheearliestdays.Doesthatmakesense?Isthatwhatyou'resaying?Alex:Yeah,absolutely.Andagain,there'sanotherthingthatIfoundtobeextremelybeneficialforthisgenotypeisthere'saconnectionwiththeSIRT1gene,whichisessentiallyananti-agingprotein.AndinAlzheimer's,therearetheseamyloidplaquesthatcanbuilduponthenerves,andtheycanbecometoxiciftheydon'tgetclearedout.AndsoApoE4hasthisreducedclearanceofthebetaamyloidplaque.ButifyoustimulatethatSIRT1gene,theSIRT1genecanhelpclearoutthoseplaques.Andsoyouseefoodsagainthataresimilartotheoneswetalkedaboutwithresveratrol,butit'spolyphenolconsumptionbecomesextremelyimportantforthisgenotype.Sothat's,youknow,yourstrawberries,yourapples,grapes,wine,peppers,berries,pistachios,cacao.Allofthoseareextremelybeneficialfoodsforthisgenotype.Katie:Gotit.Goodtoknow.AndIknowwhenItalkedtoyoubeforeaboutmyowngenesandmyhusband's,wewentthroughsomespecificonesandyoukindofexplainedwhattheymeantandwhatthatmeansasfaraswhatyoushouldeatornoteatbecauseofit.SoI'dlovetokindofgothroughthoseandhaveyouelaborate.Onethatyoumentionedwasagenerelatedtocaffeinemetabolism.AndIdon'tthinkmanypeople,youknow,realizethat'ssomethingthat'sgenetically...atleast,wehaveageneticpredispositiontoinsomeway.Socanyouexplainwhatthatgeneisandthenwhatitmeansdependingonifyouhaveitordon'thaveit?


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Alex:Sure.Sothegenethat'sconnectedtocaffeinemetabolismisCYP1A2,andthatmeansthatyou'reeitherafastmetabolizeroraslowmetabolizer.Sothefastmetabolizersessentiallyclearoutcaffeinequicker.Andtheslowmetabolizers,itcanstayaroundlonger.Sothepeoplewhoareslowmetabolizers,itmaycausemoreofanissuefromacardiovascularstandpointbecauseyourbody'snotclearingoutcaffeine.Now,toaddanotherlayertothat,iswithpeoplewhohavethatsensitivitytocaffeineintermsofincreaseinanxietyor,youknow,yourstresshormonesingeneral,itjustkindamakesyouirritable,thathastodowithaconnectiongenebasicallythat'scalledCOMT.AndCOMTiswhatbreaksdowncatecholamines,catechols.Sothosearehighincoffee,they'rehighintea,andwine,andthatcanslowthatdownandincreasethatadrenalineresponse.SoIalwayslookatacombinationofCYP1A2andCOMTtoseehowreallydoesthispersondowithcaffeineingeneral,andhowmuchwilltheytolerate.Sowiththepeoplewhoareslowmetabolizers,thosearereallytheonesthatareofconcernintermsofitcausingmoreissuesfromacardiovascularstandpoint.Katie:That'sgoodtoknow.Okay.Sothat'swhatbasicallysomeonecouldlookattheirownreportandseewhichofthosetheyhave,andthenkindofknowifit'sagoodidea.Arethereanygenes,like,wouldyousayineitherofthosethat'scompletelycontraindicatedtoconsumecaffeineorjustyouwannabeawareofthatandusemoderation?Alex:Yeah,it'smainlymoderation.Intheresearch,whatyouseeisreallywhenyoustartgoingovertwocups,that'swhenthechangeisreallykinda,youknow,splitupintermsofwhatyou'reseeingfromaphysiologicalstandpoint.Buttherearealsopeoplewhojustcan'ttolerateitatall,caffeineingeneral.I'mactuallyoneofthosepeople.I'veneverdonewellwithcaffeine.AndbasedonmygeneticblueprintthatIlookat,itmakescompletesensebecauseitputsme,andmydopamine,andmyadrenalineintooverdrive.Andsothere'smorethanafewgenesyoucanlookattokindoffigurethatout.Katie:Interesting.Sothat'saperfectsegue.Youmentionedneurotransmittersanddopamine.Arethereothergenesthatdirectlykindofimpacttheneurotransmittersorthatgiveyouaclueofwhat'sgoingonwithyourneurotransmittersinyourbody?Alex:Yeah.Thementalhealthsection,theneurotransmittersection,that'sthepartIstartedusingthemostwhenIwasdoingmyclinicalpractice.Itwassounbelievableforunderstandinganxiety,anddepression,and,youknow,neurodegenerativedisordersingeneral.SothereareafewthathavetodowithglutamateandGABA.Sothere'sagenecalledGAD1,there'sagenecalledBDNF.Bothofthosehavetodowithglutamatelevels.Andso,glutamateisthisessentiallyexcitatoryneurotransmitterwhenyourbrainismovingprettyquickly.AndthenGABAisthisonethatkindofslowsitdownandcalmsyoudown.AndcaffeineworksbyactuallyinhibitingGABAandpushesyourglutamateup.Andtheproblemwithglutamateisthat,youknow,intherightamounts,it'sgreatforcognitivefunction,butwhenit'stoohigh,itcausesdamage.Andsoyouseethiskindofbranchofdisordersofneurodegenerativedisorderswhenyoulookatwhetherit'sAlzheimer's,ordementia,orepilepsy,orMS,allofthesehavethisglutamateexcitatoryexcesscomponenttoit.AndsoyoucankindofseeyourglutamatemetabolismoryourGABAmetabolismandhowtohowtobalancethose,ifthat'swheretheissuesarecomingfrom.Youcanlookatdopamineandadrenaline,andthink,"Okay,howisthislinkedtoADHD,"or,"Howisitlinkedtomaybeanger,"oreven,youknow,troubleconcentrating,andreallyseethoselevelsfromabaseunderstanding.Thesamewithserotonin.Andsothere'sallofthesewaystohelpbalancealltheneurotransmitterstogether.Andtheinformationwehaveintheanalysisreallygoesthroughonebyone,howthosegenesareworking,whatyou'remoreproneto,andbasicallyhowtobalancethem.AndsoIhadalotofsuccesswithitforanxietyand


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depression.Katie:That'sawesome.AndIwillsayfromthereportthatyouguysrun,I'vedoneactuallyseveraldifferentgenetestsovertheyears.Andtheoneyouguysdoblewmeoutofthewaterbecauseyoudon'tleaveallthisuptointerpretation.Youactuallysendthis50-pagereportthatincludesthenutritionstuffof,like,whattoactuallydo,like,whatdoesitmean,whatdoIneedtodo,whatbloodtestsdoIevenneedtolookatifthere'sgonnabemaybeapotentialforotherproblemsthatcouldbemoreserious.AndthatwassuperhelpfultomeasamombecauseIran...myhusbandandIbothranthetestsandthenallofourkids,andIjustkindoflikelineduptheonesthatweresupposedtobethebestforallofus,andwejustkindofbasedourmealplanaroundthat.ButIthinkthat'sagreatthing.AndIwannajustmentionthatformomswhoarelisteningbecauseitcanseemoverwhelmingwhenyou'rehearingallthesegenes,andtheseabbreviations,andtryingtoreallyunderstandandremember.Butifyougetthereport,itgoesintoallofthatindetailandsoitkindofgivesyouguidanceonifitsaysthisissomethingyouwannawatchfor,orthiswouldbeagoodfoodtohelpsupportyourbody.AndIthinkyouguysdoanawesomejobaboutthat.Whataboutgenesrelatedtoathleticperformance?Alex:Yeah,theathleticperformance.SowehavegenesthatareconnectedtoVO2maxtobeginwith.Sothatgeneactuallylooksatyourinherentabilityfromanaerobicstandpoint.Sothere'sactuallyaprettywidevariationforpeople.Anditstartstomakesense,youknow,whyarepeople...somepeoplesomuchbetteratlongdistanceandsomuch,youknow,somepeoplearesomuchbetteratjustkindofshortsprints.Anditkindoftellsyouwhereyouare,butalsothatyoucanmanipulatethat.YoucanincreaseyourVO2maxnotonlythroughaerobicexercise,but,youknow,there'sactuallycertainadaptogensinherbsthathelpincreaseyourVO2max.ColdexposureactuallycanhelpincreaseyourVO2max.Soitcankindofhelpyoufine-tunethatandfigureout,okay,ifyouwannabecomemoreofanenduranceathlete,whatstepsdoyouneedtotaketogetbetteratit.Italsolooksatinflammationmarkers.Soforpeoplewho,youknow,havelongerrecoverytimesversuspeoplewhohaveshorterrecoverytimes,ithelpsyouseethataswell.Andlookatthosegenesandthink,"Okay.Ihaveaslowerrecovery,"or,"I'mmorelikelytohaveadelayedresponsehereintermsofrebuildingmuscle.WhatdoIneedtodoheretoincreasethat?"Itshowscollagenproduction.Soifyou'remorepronetocertaininjuries,howtoincreasecollagenproduction,andwhyyoumighthaveahigherneedfortheseprecursorsaswelltopreventinjuries.SomethingIwishIknewalongtimeagohavingalotofinjuriesmyself,itallmadesenseallofasudden.Soitreallydoeskindofguideyouintofinetuningyourability.Whateveritisyouwannado,Idon't…youknow,whetheryou'reanenduranceathleteoryou're,youknow,apowerliftingathlete.Itcanhelpyouessentiallyfine-tunethat.Katie:Gotit.Andsoanotherthingthat'ssuperpopularrightnowistheketodietandfasting.AndIdidn'trealizeuntilwefirstspokethattherewereactuallygenesthatkindofindicatethatyoumightdobetterorworsewiththesebecauseI,asathyroidpatient,asawoman,that'soneofthose,like,youoftenheartheadvice,don'tfast,it'sreallybadforyourhormones,itcanmessupyourthyroid.AndIexperimentedwithwaterfastingundertheguidanceofadoctor.AndIdidawesomewithit.Ifeltamazing.Icontinuetofeelgreataftermylabsdidwell.Andwhenweweregoingthroughmygenes,youkindofexplainedhowthatmadesensebasedonmygenes.AndthatIhadgenesthatmademeaprettygoodcandidateforfasting.Butcanyouexplainwhatthosegenesareandhowtheyaffectyourbody'sabilitytofastornot?Alex:Sure,yeah.Sowehaveawholesectioninthedigestionsectionofthereportthatgoesthroughprotein,


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fat,carbohydrate,fiber,themetabolism,essentiallyallofthose.Andthemostwehaveareactuallyonfatmetabolismbecausethere'sahugevariationforpeopleonthat.Youknow,somepeopledowellonhighfat,somepeoplewhodon't,orit'sthedifferenttypesoffatsthatareimportant.Butforfasting,there'sagenecalledPPAR-alpha.Andthisgene…actually,thevarianceinthatarenotascommon.Butwhentheydoshowup,itcanactuallytellyouthat,youknow,youmaynotdowellinthesefastingstates.Andthereasonis,isyouactuallyhaveadecreasedamountofketonebodies.Andsothelowketonebodiesisnot,youknow,whatyou'regoingforwhenyou'reinthefastingstate.You'retryingtogetthoseketonebodiesup.Andsowithpeoplewiththatvarianceinthatgene,theyactuallyhaveahighersensitivitysaturatedfataswell.Soifyouweredoingthishighsaturatedfatdiet,andyou'refastingquiteabit,andyouhadareallypoorresponsetoit,thiscouldhelpexplainwhy.Now,forthatgene,again,there'salwaysananswer.Andsoforpeoplewiththisgene,youwanttofocusonfoodsthatarecalledagonists,sofoodsthatactuallyreallybenefitthestimulationofthisgene.Andsoit'sactuallywhattheyfoundwasthattherewasapolyunsaturatedfats,soOmega-3s,fishnuts,andseeds,astaxanthinfromwildsalmon,pterostilbene,sofromblueberries,rawalmonds,cinnamon,andtomatoes.Allthesefoodshelpactivatethatgeneandtheycouldworkbetter,becausetheothersideofitisit'sactuallyatumorsuppressor.Andhastheabilitytoinhibittumorgrowthwhenyouactivateit.Andsoforpeoplewhoaretryingtogetthosebenefitsfromfasting,itmaybebetteractuallytobe…youknow,haveasmallerwindow,buttoincludetheseagoniststostimulatethatgene.Katie:That'ssocool.AndIthinkthat'sagreatpointthatyoukeephighlightingandsoimportanttorememberis,like,allofthesegenes,it'seasytolookatthemandthinklike,"Oh,mutationsareabadthing,"or,"Thisgeneisabadthing."Buteveryoneofthese,you'vesaid,youknow,thatactuallyisprotectivehereorithasthispurposeandto,like,tolookatthatwholeapproachandrealizethatourbodydoeshasthesegenesforareasonandtheysupporteachother,andthattheydon'tjustworkinisolation.Ithinkthat'sakeypartofyourmessage.AndIlovethatyoueducatesowellaboutthat.Alex:Okay.Yeah,Ithinkit'ssomethingthat'sbeenmissingandtheunderstandingofhoweverything'sworkingtogether.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyFourSigmatic.Mykitchenisalwaysstockedwiththeircoffeemushroomblends,theirMatchamix,andtheirstraightmushroomdrinks.FourSigmatichasfiguredouthowtogetthebenefitsofmushroomslikechaga,lionsmane,cordycepsandreishiintodeliciousinstantdrinks.Mycurrentfavoriteistheiradaptogencoffeeblendthathastolsiandastragalus.ButIlovealloftheirproducts.Theyhaveoptionswithorwithoutcaffeinesoifyou’renotacaffeinepersonyoucanfindproductsthatyouwilllove.AndIfindthateventheircoffeeblendsthatdocontaincaffeinehavelessthananormalcupofcoffee.Butdon’tletthisfoolyou.IhavefoundthatIgetsomuchmorefocusandmentalclarityfromthesemushroomblendsthanIdofromregularcoffee,andwithoutthejitters.Theadditionofthemushrooms,whichareconsiderednootropics,meaningthattheyaregoodforthebrainmakesthesesuperfoodblendsmoreeffectiveandmuchhealthierthanjustregularoldcoffee.Ilovethemwithadashofmacadamiamilkpersonally.Ialsolovethatmanyoftheirdrinkmixesareinstantandpackagedintoindividualservingssotheyareperfectfortraveloronthego.Ifyou’relisteningtothis,thenyoucangetaspecialofferjustforlistenersofthispodcastbygoingtowellnessmama.com/go/four-sigmatic.


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ThispodcastisalsobroughttoyoubyGoodCulture.GoodCulturemakesamazingcottagecheese.Iknow,Iknow,notnecessarilytwowordsyouwouldputinthesamesentenceoneverydayspeaking.Buttheirsisawesome,Ipromise,evenifyoudon’tlovecottagecheese.Basically,it’snaturallyfermentedcottagecheesesoit’sfreeofgums,fillers,andadditivesandit’spackedwithprobiotics.Andbecauseit’smadenaturallyitdoesn’thavethatweirdmouthfeelthatalotofcottagecheesehas.So,Iuseitallthetimeincookingandsmoothiesasasubstituteforothertypesofcheese,orjustamealonthego.YoucanfinditatWholeFoodsandmanyothergrocerystoresanditcomesinyogurt-sizedcupstoo,andthoseareperfectformeals.Checkthemout.It’sGoodCultureandtheyareavailableatmanygrocerystores.

Katie:I'dalsoliketogodeeponthegenesrelatedtovitaminDbecausethisisonethatshowsupinourfamilyandamongstourkidseven.Andit'soneI'veresearchedquiteabit.Butfrommyunderstandingtherearegenesthatimpactourbody'sabilitytocreateandusevitaminD.Canyouexplainthat?Alex:Sure.SotherearegenesthathavetodowithcirculatingvitaminDlevels.Sothere'sagenethatshowsyouifyou'remorelikelytohavelowervitaminDlevelsingeneral.Andthenthere'sanothergenethatlooksatthevitaminDreceptor,whichiscalledVDR.AndVDRis…essentiallyrequiresthesecofactorstohelpyouabsorbvitaminD.Andthat'stheonethat'sreallybeenresearchedquiteabit,aretheVDRgenes.Andsothatwouldbe...WhenyoustarttolookatvitaminDinisolation,youstarttosee,like,well,there'sallthesecofactorsitneedsforabsorption.AndifyouhavevariantsintheseVDRgenes,theybecomeevenmoreimportant.Sowhetherthat'smagnesium,orthat'sboron,youknow,orit's,youknow,differentmineralsthatarerequiredforthatvitaminA,actuallythere'saconnectiontherewithD,thatbecomesmoreimportantfortheabsorptionofit.Butitalsomay,youknow,tellyouthatyouneedtobeinasunnierclimate.IfyouknowifyouhavetraditionallymuchlowervitaminDlevels,thatsunbecomesmoreimportant.Andwestarttoseethatwiththeserotoningenesaswellforpeoplewhoreallygetmoredepressedincolderordarkerclimates,youknow,thattheyneedmoreofthatsunintheirdailylife.Katie:It'sgoodtoknow.AndsoI'dloveifyoucouldalsokindofgothroughbecauseyoumentionedinpassinglikethementalhealthsection,andthemetabolismsection,andthedifferentpartsofthereport.ButIwasshocked,IwasliterallyshockedwhenIgotitandsohowmuchinformationwasthere.Socanyoukindofwalkusthrough,like,what'sonagivenreport?And,like,ifsomeonedoesthetestingwithyouguys,whatthey'regonnaget?Alex:Sure.Sothereportisbrokenintoeightsectionsofhealth.Andwekindofgothroughthegenes.Weseparatethemoutintoeachsection.Andthesectionwouldbe…sothere'sdigestion,there'smethylation,hormones,neurotransmittersandmentalhealth,antioxidantprotection,detoxification,DNArepair,andthencardiovascular,andexerciseperformance.AndwhatItellpeopleis,"Thinkofthisasabookonyou.Ifyouweretobuyabookonyourself,andeverythingyou'dwanttoknowfromahealthstandpoint.Andtakeitinsmallamountsatatime.Youknow,itis50pagesbut,youknow,abookcouldbe2to300pages.Andtheinformationyou'regetting,you'realwaysgonnagobacktoit,andyou'realwaysgonnafindthingsout,andyou'realwaysgonnakeeplearning."Andwhatwe'redoingis…whatwe'reworkingonisthatwe'reheretohelppeoplethroughouttheirlife.Sowe'recontinuallyupdatinggenes,updatingresearch,andournewdashboardwillcomeoutinJune,will


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automaticallyupdatepeople'sreports.They'llhavethatoptiontodoso.Soyoucanalwayskindofbelearning,gettingsmallamountsatatime,andhavethatbaseunderstandingbecausewhenyoustarttolookatyourfamilyhistory,sogoingbackto,youknow,toyourgrandparents,andyourparents,aunts,anduncles,andthenyourpersonalhealthhistory,youcanstarttoseepatternssometimes.Andwhenyourecognizethosepatternsandyoustartreadingyourreport,you'regonnaseeyourselfinthis.Andthat'swhenitstartsconnecting.Andthat'swhenyoustartmakingthesereallygreatstridestowardsyourhealthtoknow,"Okay,thisiswhat'sbeenrunninginmyfamilyforthisreason,andherearethegenes.Andhere'swhatIneedtodo.Andhere'showIcanpreventit."Andthat'swhenitbecomesreallyempowering.That'swhenyouremovefearofthingsthatwe'vebeentoldforawhilethat,"Oh,it'sgenetic.Youcan'treallydomuchaboutthat."Andweknowthat'snottruenow.AndsowhatIrecommendpeopledoingisjusttakealittlebitatatimeasyoustarttoreadthroughitbecausethere'ssomuchgreatinformationinthere,andit'seasytomisssomethings,orgetoverwhelmed.Butthat,wealsoputthatallinthebeginningforyou,inthefirstfewpagestomakeiteasy.Sowehaveanactualstrengthsandweaknessestable,soyourgeneticstrengthsandyourgeneticweaknesses.Andinone-liners,wesay,"Here'showyouturnyourweaknessesintostrengths."Wehaveacustomizedgrocerylistthathasbeenformulatedbymultiplegenesthroughoutthewholereporttogethertocreatethatlist,andthenrecommendabloodwork.Thatsaying,youknow,thiswon'tbeoutofrange,butitmaybeofinterestbasedonyourresults.Soyoucouldevenjustspendthefirst,youknow,fewpagesandhaveagreatideaofthemainthingsyouneedtofocuson,andthengointotheresearchlater.Katie:Yeah,that'ssupercool.I'mcuriousifthereareanykindofuniversalthingsthatimpactgeneexpressionthatshowupoverandoveracrosslotsofpeople'sreportsorthatarejust,forinstance,thingslikethedioxinsthatarenowinourenvironmentthatnobodyreallyneedstobeexposedto.Areyouseeinganypatternsthere?Alex:Patternsintermsofuniversalsensitivities?Katie:Yeah,eitheruniversalsensitivitiesthatseemtobeshowingupalotintoday'ssociety,orthingsthatcaneitherpositivelyornegativelyaffectgenes,kindof,acrossalltypes.Alex:Yeah.SoIthinkinthis...probablythisoneseemsobvious,butsugarcomesup.It'sprettyuniversalasaproblem.Andthathastodowiththenitricoxidegenesforalotofpeople.Sugarwithinflammation,it'ssomethingwe'veknownforawhileanditdefinitelyshowsupconsistently.SomethingthatIthinkalotofpeoplewillbenefitfrom...Imean,chronicstressisessentiallyatthetopofthatnegativegeneticexpressionpyramid.Andweallgetaffectedinaverysimilarwaybyit.Wejusthavedifferentmanifestationsofitbasedonourbiochemistry,whetheritgoes…wegetmigraines,orheadaches,orwegetheartissues,orweget,youknow,stomachissuesifthat'swhereitchanges.ButIthinkthatallthesethingstomitigatechronicstressissomethingthatwealluniversallyneed.Ourenvironment,youknow,that'sactuallysomethingthatchanges.Weallthriveactuallyindifferentenvironmentsbasedonwherewe'vecomefrom.AndIthinkthat'sareallyinterestingareatomebecauseofhowdifferentclimatesaffectdifferentpeople.Sothat'ssomethingI'mgettingmoreintoorwhysomepeopledoreallywellwithcoldtherapy,otherpeoplewouldratheravoidcoldshowerstherestoftheirlifethandoone.Andsomepeopleloveheat,lovesaunas.Andsomepeople,like,"Ican'tstandit."AndIthinkthoselittlevariationsarereallyinterestingfromanenvironmentalstandpoint.ButIthink,yeah,Imean,chronicstress


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andsugarseemstobepretty,prettymucheverybody.Katie:Yeah,probablyprettygooduniversaladvice.I'mcuriousifthereareotherthingsspecificallythatcandamagegenesornegativelyaffectthemthatweareencounteringintheenvironment,orevenamorecontroversialone,you'rewelcometododgethisoneifyouwant,butthingslikevaccines,there'snowsomanymoreinourenvironmentand…Imean,inthisschedulethattheygivetochildren.AndIknowthosehavelikeanimmunecomponent.Obviously,they'reaffectingtheimmunesystem.Butisthereanyevidencethattheyareorcouldhaveaproblemagainstgenesaswell?Alex:So,yeah,myfeelingonthisormythinkingonthisisthat,wehaveanenvironmentnowthatis…it'smorepollutedandmoretoxicthanIthinkwe'veeverhadtodealwith.Andtheissueswith,like,heavymetals,youknow,ingeneral,we'reseeingthisreallythesurgeinheavymetalissues.AndasI'vetalkedtoalotofpractitioners,youknow,whoarerunningthesetestsandthey'reseeinglike,"Lookhowhighthisis.Lookatthis,like,thecadmiumisoffthechart."It'sbecomingabigproblem.Andtherearevariationsingenesthathavehighersensitivitiestoheavymetals.MTHFR1298isoneofthosegenesthatisconnectedtoBH4,whichisreallyimportantforneurotransmittershealth,sobrainhealth.AnditcanreallydepleteBH4.Sotherearegonnabepeoplewhohaveahardtimewithaluminum,ahardtimewithmercury.They'regonnareallybeaffectednegativelymorethanotherpeopleforthat.AndsoIthinkthatthereissomethingtosayforthatwhenwe'restartingtolookattoxicity,becauseglutathione,whichisessentiallyourendogenousantioxidantsystem,that'swhat'sconnectedtolongevity.Sowhenyoulookatglutathionelevels,peoplewholivethelongesthavethehighestglutathione.Andwhatdepletesglutathione?Chemicals,toxins.Andsowiththeseglutathionegenes,that'ssomethingelseIthinkweneedtothinkofwithchildrenaswellashowwellarethoseworking,howwellaretheyabletodealwiththattoxicloadanddetoxifyit.Ithinkit'saquestionweallneedtobeasking.Katie:Soaretherethingswecandospecificallytosupportthegene?IknowI'vewrittenalotabouttheenvironmentalsideinourhomesandtryingtoremovesomeofthoseinputsthatwe'reconstantlybombardedwith.Butaretherethingslikeinternally,like,eitherfoodorasupplementbasethatsupportthebodyandalsothatprocess?Alex:Yes.Soglutathione,someofthebestthingsyoucandotoincreaseitwouldbebonebroth,forexample,becausetheprecursoraminoacidswouldbeinbonebroth.That'dbeagreatwayisactuallyareallygreatchoiceofthoseaminoacids.SeleniumandvitaminC,thosewillallreallyhelpboostglutathionequiteabit.Katie:Goodtoknow.I'llputthoseintheshownotesaswell,I'mmakingnotesonallofthisasyouspeak.Asyou'resayingthis,I'm,like,hearingconnectionsto,like,alotofthesemedicinaltypemushroomsthatarereallypopularrightnow.AndI'veseensomeemergingresearchondifferentoneslikecordyceps,andchaga,andlion'smanehavinglikeaneuroprotectiveorageneticprotectivebenefit,andbeingabletokindofsupportthebodyinuniqueways.Andyouhaveabackgroundinnutritionaswell.Haveyouseenanyofthis?Andwhatareyourthoughtsonthosetypesofmushrooms?Alex:Yeah.I'veheardalotofpeoplecallmethemushroommanforthatreason.Ihaveahugeinterestinmedicinalmushroomsbecausetheresearchissovastonwhattheycando.Andit'ssounbelievable.AndIthinkthey'reananswertoalotofthingswe'rehavingtodealwithtoday.Lion'smaneisonethatcomesupalotinthenutritiongenomereportbecauseofitsabilitytoprotectthenerves,itsabilitytoincreasememory.It


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basicallystimulatesnervegrowthfactor,whichisprettyrareforsomethingtobeabletodothat.Reishiandcordycepsprotectthemitochondria,protectyourcells.Theyhavealotofanti-agingcomponentstothem.Chagaisanotheronethathasalotofreallystronganticancerresearch.Allthemedicinalmushroomshaveanticancerresearch.Sowhenwe'reseeingsomuchcancerandweknowtheconnectionsbetweentoxicityandcancer,medicinalmushroomsreallydoprovidethisextradefensethatIthinkishelpingusadapttothisworldthatwe'realllivingin.SoIthinkit'ssomethingthatit'ssustainableandmanypeoplearegonnabenefitfrom.Katie:Gotit.AndsoI'mmakingnoteshereintheshownotesaswellaswetalk,butitseemslike…sofromwhatyou'vesaid,there'ssomeuniversalprinciple,like,weallprobablyneedtogetenoughsleep,andreduceourstresslevels,andgetsomesunshine.Withyourbackgroundinnutritionaswell,arethereanydietaryprinciplesotherthanavoidingsugarthatseemlikeprettyuniversalrecommendations,like,greenvegetables,thephytonutrients.I'mcuriousifyouhaveastartingpointforanyonelisteningofjust,like,ageneralnutritionrecommendation.Alex:Yes.Well,tobeginwith,Ithink,again,wetakeitfromsuchanindividualstandpointthatIthinkcertainfoodsaresuperfoodsforoneperson.Andtheymaynotbeforanotherperson.AndsowhenIthinkof...whenIseethese,youknow,listsofsuperfoods,inmymind,I'mthinking,"Well,itdepends.Whatdoesthatpersonreallyneed?Whataretheirtopfive,"youknow?AndsoIthinkthat'sreallythewayIlookatit.Imean,wholefoodsingeneral,vegetablesingeneral,andfruits,andnuts,andseeds,andthetypeofeggsyouget,andthetypeofmeat,allofthatisreallyimportant.ButIthinkwhatwe'restartingtofindisthatwekindofneedtonarrowdown,like,whatarethesepersonalsuperfoodsforpeoplethatarereallyimportantthattheyget?Whatistheirancestralhistorytellingusthattheyreallyneed?Onethatitmakesmethinkofareomega-3.Sowethinkofomega-3sasthiskindofuniversal,it'sgoodforeveryone,everyoneneedstobetakingfishoilcapsules,thatkindofthing.Butreally,there'sactuallyapretty...there'savariationofwherethedoseishealthy.Andsoforsomepeople,theyhavegenesthatconvertplant-basedomegasprettywellintoEPAandDHA,andthenthere'sotherswhodon't.Andthathastodowithmigrationpatternswhethertheyhadmoreofaplant-baseddiet,ortheyhadmoreofananimal-baseddiet.WeknowthattheInuitinGreenlandthattheyessentiallyhaveadeletedalleleforthisFADS1,FADS2gene.Andthattheyhaveadaptedtoadietofstrictlyanimal-basedomega-3swithoutanyplant.Theycan'tevenmakeaconversionwithplants.Somyanswerwouldbetheuniversalapproachisdefinitelyawholefoodsdiet.Ithinkthat'sobvioustoalotofpeople,lesspackagedfood,lesssugar.Butalsoknowwhatyourbodythriveson,andbecauseeverybody'sreallydifferentinthatsense.Katie:Yeah,that'ssotrue.AndlikeIsaid,Ilovethatyouaredoingwhat...Ihaven'tseenanyonedobefore,whichisreallybridgethatgapbetweenwhatourgenesareandwhatthatactuallymeansforourdaytodaylife,andespeciallyforlikewhatweeat,andforwhat'sinourenvironment.Also,I'dlovetojusttalkthroughtheprocessalittlebitmoreaboutthetestbecauseforanyonewhohasn'tdonethis,Idefinitelywouldencourageit.AndlikeIsaid,youguyshavethebestonethatI'veseen.Anditwasfascinatingtoseeallofourkids,andwhattheygotfromeachofus,andwhattheirgeneslookedlike.Butalso,Ithinkyoursistheeasiestjustasfarasthetestingprocedurebecauseit'sacheekswabversushaving...like,Iknowseveralofthem,I'vehadtospitintoaprettybigcup.AndtherewasnowayIwasgonnagetmytwo-year-oldtodothat.Socanyouexplain,like,justkindofwalkpeoplethroughthetestingprocess?Whatitlookslike?Howlongittakestogetresults?Andthenwhattheycandofromthere?


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Alex:Sure.Yeah.SowedoaDNAkit.It'ssenttoyourhome.Andit'sacheekswab.Andittakes,youknow,justafewminutes.Andyoubasicallyputthatinthisvial.Andwehaveaprepaidenvelopethatyoujustsendbacktoourlab.Itjusttakesaboutthreetofourdaystogettothelab.Andthenitisfiveweeksfromthedaythelabreceivesthatsample.Andyou'llbenotifiedofthat.Andthenatfiveweeks,you'llgetanotificationbyemailsayingyourresultsareready.Andyousignintoyourpersonaldashboard,andyou'llgetthe50-pagenutritiongenomereportonyou.AndyougetyourownDNAdatatextfileaswell.Andyou'llhavethatoptiontoalsobeifyouwannacontinuallyhaveitautomaticallyupdated.Everytimewereleaseanewgene,ornewresearch,itcanjustbeuploadedandyougetanotificationthatit'sready.Andyoucancontinuallycheckin.Wealsohavealistofpractitionersthatwerecommendonnutritiongenome.com.We'regonnahavealotmorestartinginJuneandJulyaswereleaseanexamthattheyhavebeentrainedinthetests.Andsoifyouneedtogoalittledeeper,oryouneedto,youknow,talktoyourpractitioner,oryouwannagetbloodwork,allofthosethings,there'sthatoptionaswell.Katie:AndIwannamakesureIaskyoubecauseIgetsomanyquestionsonthisonmysiteabouttheprivacy.Like,doyouguysprotect...howdoyouprotecttheprivacyofthatgeneticdata,Iknowthereweresomeconcernswithsomeothertests.Idon'twannanamenames,butjustasfarasifthatdatawasbeingprotected,andIknowthat'sobviouslyaconcernespeciallyforalotofmoms.Sohowdoyouguyshandlethat?Alex:Yeah.Itwasreallyimportanttousthatprivacywasnumberone,becausewedidn'twantpeopletofeeluncomfortabletakingthetest,orthinkingthattheirdatawasbeingsharedtothird-parties,orsoldtothird-parties.Sowedonotsellthedata.Thedataisstoredbutitcanbedeleted.Andtheonlyreasonwestorethedataissothatwecankeepyouup-to-datewhentherearenewfilesthatcomeoutforthenewgenes.Weactuallykeepthatonfilesothatyoucangetupdated.Butwecandeletethatfromoursystem.Andit'snotsharedwithanybody.It'sessentiallylockandkey.WehaveitonaHIPAAserverprotectedsothatitdoesn'tgoanywhere.Katie:Wonderful.Andjustareminder,thelinkto...ifyouguyswannacheckitoutandfindoutmore,it'swellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome.Thatlinkwillalsobeatwellnessmama.fmintheshownotes,andmakesuretousethecodewellnessmama,alloneword,toget10%off.And,Alex,thankyouforofferingthatdiscount.IknowIhearfromalotofmomswhowanttohavethisdata,andwhohaveeitherwithprivacyconcerns,orthebudgetaryconcerns,andyou'veaddressedbothofthose.IreallyappreciatethatandIappreciateyousharingyourexpertise.LikeIsaid,Iliterallycouldtalktoyoualldayaboutthis.Andifwegetatonofquestions,wemighthavetodoaroundtwoonedayifyou'reupforit.Alex:Absolutely,yeah.Thankyousomuchforhavingme.Katie:Anytime.Thankyousomuchforyourtime.Andthankstoallofyouforlistening.AndIhopetoseeyounexttimeon,"TheHealthyMomsPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

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