#46 (175) z , 2011 weli gamodis otxsabats da sabats fasi 1 ... · 2 saerto gazeti #46 (175),...
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C M Y K
#46 (175) 23-225.XI, 2011 weli gamodis oTxSabaTs da SabaTs www.saertogazeti.net; E-mail: [email protected] fasi 1 lari
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van
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vil
s!
gilocavT giorgobas! imis gamo, rom nacionalebis
TvalTmaqcobas sazRvari ara aqvs,
imis gamo, rom usircxvilo da uka-
nono gzebiT ebrZvian biZina ivaniS-
vils da ar aZleven saSualebas Sek-
ribos `qarTuli ocnebis~ sazoga-
doeba, imis gamo, rom mas
uari uTxres sportis
sasaxleSi, stadionze,
filarmoniaSi Sekreba-
ze im mizeziT, TiTqos
iq am dReebSi Ronis-
Ziebebi yofila da-
gegmili, movuwo-
deb yvelas, visac
qveynis gadarCena
da nacionaluri
Savi Wirisgan gan-
Tavisufleba gvin-
da, boikoti gamovucxadoT da ar mi-
videT im RonisZiebebze, romlebic
am jojoxeTis mociqulebs hqoniaT
dagegmili, riTac kidev erTxel ga-
movucxadoT solidaroba biZina
ivaniSvils da yvela Rirseuli qar-
TvelisaTvis sanukvar `qarTul oc-
nebas~!
rezo amaSukeli
yvelas, yvelas, yvelas!
`didgvarovan~ `nacionals~ mis aRmatebulebas boco(nugzar) wiklaurs`mdabio~ biZina
ivaniSvili TvalSi epataraveba?
ivaniSvilisTvismoqalaqeobis CamorTmeva sveticxovlis amSeneblis,
arsakiZisTvis, marjvenismoWris tolfasia!
saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.2
gazeTi xxelmZRvanelobs TTavisufali ppresis pprincipiT.SesaZloa, aavtoris ppozicia aar eeTanxmebodes rredaqciis aazrs.informaciis ssizusteze ppasuxismgebelia aavtori. ggasaCivrebaSesaZlebelia mmasalis ggamoqveynebidan eerTi kkviris vvadaSi.
Semosuli mmasalebi aavtorebs aar uubrundeba.aamm nniiSSnniiTT aaRRnniiSSnnuulliiaa ssaarreekkllaammoo mmaassaalleebbii..
`saerTo gazeTi~mmTTaavvaarrii rreeddaaqqttoorrii:: vvaaxxttaanngg xxaarrCCiillaavvaa
gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~
mmiiss:: TTbbiilliissii,, aaRRmmaaSSeenneebblliiss 116644;;
tteell..:: 22 1144 4400 1199;; 22 3344 2288 9977
rreeggiissttrraacciiiiss ##220022337755334499
redaqtoris sveti
Tvenaxevari gadis, rac biZina ivaniSvili
qarTul politikaSi Semovida, rasac xeli-
suflebam misTvis Cveuli Zalismieri meTode-
biT upasuxa.
biZina ivaniSvils xelisuflebis am agre-
siuli nabijebisTvis agresia ar Seugebebia da
arc qarTveli erisTvis uxmia saSvelad _ ga-
modiT, gverdiT damideqiT da damicaviTo _
ar uTqvams.
arada, rom eTqva, asiaTasobiT adamiani ga-
movidoda quCaSi.
asiaTasobiT ras mihqvia, albaT mTeli sa-
qarTvelo gamovidoda, nacmoZraobis gamokle-
biT.
ar gaakeTa es biZina ivaniSvilma, ar ikad-
ra, ufro zustad, ver gaimeta qarTveli
xalxi xelisuflebis
mxridan mosalodneli
represiebisa da Zala-
dobisTvis.
biZina ivani-Svili qarTulrealobaSi ax-ali politi-kuri kultu-ris, qcevis axa-li wesebis, ax-ali politi-kuri sintaqs-is, urTierTo-bebisa da opo-nirebis axaliformebis dam-kvidrebas cdi-lobs.
am mxriv is pragmatulad, civi gonebiT
moazrovne politikoss ki ara ufro aRmzr-
delsa da ganmanaTlebels hgavs, romelic Ta-
visi oponentebis damarcxebas da Zlevas maTi
gakeTilSobilebiT, maTi gardaqmniT, maTi
znisa da xasiaTis SecvliT apirebs da ara
uxeSi Zalis gamoyenebiT.
_ me Tqven gaiZulebT, rom SeicvaloT!
_ me Tqven gaiZulebT, rom ukeTesebi gax-
deT!
_ me Tqven gaiZulebT, pativi sceT da ar
gadauxvioT demokratiul Rirebulebebs!
_ me Tqven gaiZulebT, gadaeCvioT arCevne-
bis gayalbebas, gadaeCvioT Zaladobas, gadaeC-
vioT adamianebis abuCad agdebas!
_ me Tqven gaiZulebT, iyoT toleran-
tulni, iyoT samarTlianni, iyoT Rirseulni,
ufro zustad rom vTqvaT, iyoT adamianebi!
ai, aseTi qveteqsti ikiTxeba biZina ivaniS-
vilis qmedebebsa da mis gancxadebebSi.
guram doCanaSvilis erT-erTma personaJma
`karcerluqsi~ `gamoigona~ uwignurTa da
umecarTaTvis, rom iZulebis wesiT wignebis
kiTxva Seeyvarebina maTTvis da amiT mieRwia
maTi gaadamianurebisaTvis.
biZina ivaniSvilis mier `gamo-gonebuli~ `karcerluqsi~, Zne-lad aRsazrdeli, moxuligno daTavneba xelisuflebisTvis, _ ar-Cevnebia!
arCevnebia is `karcerluqsi~,sadac iZulebis wesiT unda miiy-vano es xelisufleba da aseve iZu-lebis wesiT iq unda gamoamwyv-dio, rom bolosdabolos gonsmoegos da cotaTi ukeTesi gax-des, vidre aris.
biZina ivaniSvilis`karcerluqsi~
xelisufalTaTvis
`aris qveynad sityvebi, romle-
bisTvisac Zalzed Znelia gverdig-
verd yofna, am SemTxvevaSic asea,
sad „karceri“, da sad „luqsi“, ma-
inc ar arsebobs dedamiwaze iseTi
ori sityva, odesme erTmaneTs rom
ar Seexamos, axlac asea, - es iqne-
boda karceri-luqsi, wignebiani Ta-
roebiT savse, rbili, moxerxebuli
savarZliT, koxta magidaze naTura -
sokoTi, es iqneboda karceri - oc-
neba yoveli wignis moyvarulTaTvis,
ras izam, yvelas ar SeuZlia bibli-
oTekaSi kiTxva, da vinc Tavisi fe-
xiT Seva Cems mier SemoRebul
mowyobilobaSi, maSin es oTaxi iqne-
ba ubralod - luqsi, mravalTaTvis
ki - karceri-luqsi... ai, swored
aqedan unda damewyo - me da Cemnai-
rebi, ee, Cemnairebi - es iqneboda
uTvalavi klimi, quCa-quCa vivli-
diT, ai, vTqvaT, mivdivarT... mivdi-
varT, aviareT, CaviareT, kedels ori
jeeli miyudebia, dganan, maslaaTo-
ben, ifurTxebian, dganan, arsad ar
apireben wasvlas, fexebze hkidiaT,
romeli saaTia, ra droa, Ramea Tu
SuadRe, dganan, gogoebs eanglebian,
waustvenen, wauRiRineben, xandaxan
erTmaneTs gaexumrebian Taviseburad
- panRurs amoartyamen erTurTs, ik-
riWebian da swored am dros me da
Cemnairebi - tac! - xels vstacebT
da zemoaRweril karcerSi migvyavs...
- ZaliT? - ainteresebs xelmZR-
vanels, da pirvelad iwers raRacas.
- diax, diax, ZalisZalaTi. - mtki-
ced ambobs respondenti, Seuvalia, -
SesaZloa, xelis amotrialebac ki
dagvWirdes. iciT ra, geTayvaT, zogs
mSoblebis zemoqmedebisa sjera, zogs
- skolis, zogs - organizaciis,
sxvas - ujredisa, zogs - cema-tyepi-
sa da kidev ra vici risa aRar, mag-
ram, Cemis azriT, es Cemi luqsi, ah,
ubadloa - dgas Cveni jeeli, raRa
Tqma unda, calke vaTavsebT, am Cvens
karcerSi, WerSi SteriviT iyureba,
fanjaraze gisosebia akruli, karic,
rasakvirvelia, daxSulia, gareT ro-
melime - romelime klimi darajobs,
skamze Camomjdari, muxlebze - wig-
niT, Cveni jeeli ki uyurebs magidas,
skamsa da... karada-Taroebs, magram
jerjerobiT - araferi. midis qaTqa-
Ta sawolTan, wveba, iyureba, iyure-
ba, Tvali uSterdeba da iZinebs.
mSoblebi, ra Tqma unda, gafrTxile-
bulni arian, „nu geSiniaT, qalbato-
no, Tqveni Svili karcer-luqsSia“,
„ki batono, ki, oRond eg quCa-quCa
wanwals gadaeCvios da...“
guram doCanaSvili:guram doCanaSvili: kaci, romelsacliteratura Zlier uyvarda
(nawyveti moTxrobidan)
ssaazzooggaaddooeebbrriivvii mmooZZrraaoobbaa „„qqaarr-
TTuullii ooccnneebbiiss““ pprreezzeennttaacciiaa,, rroo-
mmeelliicc 2255 nnooeemmbbrriissTTvviiss iiyyoo ddaa-
ggeeggmmiillii,, xxeelloovvnnuurraadd SSeeqqmmnniillii
wwiinnaaaaRRmmddeeggoobbeebbiiss ggaammoo ggaaddaaiiddoo..
ggvviinnddaa ssaazzooggaaddooeebbaamm iiccooddeess,, rroomm
33 nnooeemmbbrriiddaann mmooyyoolleebbuullii ddRReemmddee
bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenn-
lleebbii mmoollaappaarraakkeebbeebbss aawwaarrmmooeebbddnneenn
ssppoorrttiiss ssaassaaxxlliissaa ddaa mmiixxeeiill
mmeessxxiiss ssaaxxeelloobbiiss ssttaaddiioonniiss aaddmmii-
nniissttrraacciiaassTTaann,, rraaTTaa yyvveellaa mmssuurr-
vveellss hhqqoonnooddaa „„qqaarrTTuullii ooccnneebbiiss““
pprreezzeennttaacciiaazzee ddaasswwrreebbiiss ssaaSSuuaa-
lleebbaa.. mmoollaappaarraakkeebbeebbiiss pprroocceessSSii
mmuuddmmiivvaadd ggvvTTaavvaazzoobbddnneenn ffiillaarrmmoo-
nniiiiss ddiidd ssaakkoonncceerrttoo ddaarrbbaazzss,,
mmaaggrraamm SSeemmddggoommSSii ggaaiirrkkvvaa,, rroomm 2255
nnooeemmbbeerrss SSeennoobbiiss nnaawwiillii,, ee..ww..
iivveennTT-hhoollii ssxxvvaa RRoonniissZZiieebbiiTT iiyyoo
ddaakkaavveebbuullii.. aamm ffaaqqttiiss ggaaddaammoowwmmee-
bbaa ssaatteelleeffoonnoo zzaarriiTT vvccaaddeeTT ddaa
aaRRmmooCCnnddaa,, rroomm iiss ssiimmaarrTTlleess SSeeee-
ssaabbaammeebbooddaa.. iisseeddaacc SSeezzRRuudduullii
ssiivvrrcciiss ffaarrTTiiss nnaawwiillSSii pprreezzeenn-
ttaacciiiiss ggaammaarrTTvvaa SSeeuuZZlleebbeellii ggaaxx-
ddeebbooddaa ddaa ssaazzooggaaddooeebbiiss uukkmmaayyoo-
ffiilleebbaass ggaammooiiwwvveevvddaa..
kkiiddeevv eerrTTxxeell xxaazzggaassmmiiTT aaRRvv-
nniiSSnnaavvTT,, rroomm 33 nnooeemmbbrriiddaann ddRReemmddee
mmiimmddiinnaarreeoobbss mmoollaappaarraakkeebbaa ssppoorr-
ttiiss ssaassaaxxlliiss aaddmmiinniissttrraacciiaassTTaann..
CCvveenn vviiTTxxoovvddiiTT ddaarrbbaazziiss ggaammooyyoo-
ffaass nneebbiissmmiieerr ddRReess 2255 nnooeemmbbrriiddaann
1100 ddeekkeemmbbrriiss CCaaTTvvlliiTT.. mmiivviiRReeTT
ssiittyyvviieerrii uuaarrii,, mmiizzeezzaadd kkii uukkvvee
CCaanniiSSnnuullii RRoonniissZZiieebbeebbii ddaassaaxxeell-
ddaa.. ssppoorrttiiss ssaassaaxxlliiss xxeellmmZZRRvvaa-
nneelloobbaamm ggaannggvviiccxxaaddaa,, rroomm ddaarrbbaazzii
11 iiaannvvrraammddeeaa ddaakkaavveebbuullii,, TTuummccaa
aarr ddaauukkoonnkkrreetteebbiiaa TTuu rroommeellii
wwlliiss 11 iiaannvvrraammddee.. aammiiss SSeemmddeegg bbii-
ZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss wwaarrmmoommaaddggeennlleebbii
iiZZuulleebbuullii ggaaxxddnneenn mmoollaappaarraakkee-
bbiiss ooffiicciiaalluurr ffoorrmmaazzee ggaaddaassuu-
lliiyyvvnneenn,, ggaaiiggzzaavvnnaa wweerriillii ssppoorr-
ttiiss ssaassaaxxlliiss aaddmmiinniissttrraacciiiiss ssaa-
xxeellzzee.. ppaassuuxxii aamm ddrroommddee aarr mmiigg-
vviiRRiiaa..
eess aarr aarriiss ppiirrvveellii SSeemmTTxxvveevvaa
ssaaoorrggaanniizzaacciioo ssaakkiiTTxxeebbTTaann ddaakkaavv-
SSiirreebbiiTT mmoollaappaarraakkeebbeebbiiss ggaaWWiiaannuu-
rreebbiiss.. aannaallooggiiuurrii ssiittuuaacciiaa SSeeiiqq-
mmnnaa bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss ppiirrvveellii
pprreesskkoonnffeerreenncciiiiss ppiirrddaappiirr eeTTeerr-
SSii ttrraannsslliirreebbiiss ssaakkiiTTxxiiss ggaa-
ddaawwyyvveettiiss ddrrooss.. aaSSkkaarraaaa,, rroomm ggaa-
ddaawwyyvveettiilleebbeebbiiss mmiiRReebbiiss ssqqeemmaa eerr-
TTii ddaa iiggiivveeaa ddaa aamm ssqqeemmaazzeeaa mmoorr-
ggeebbuullii ssppoorrttiiss ssaassaaxxlliiss aaddmmii-
nniissttrraacciiiiss ggaaddaawwyyvveettiilleebbaacc..
zzeemmooTTaaRRnniiSSnnuulliiddaann ggaammoommddiinnaa-
rree,, 2255 nnooeemmbbrriissTTvviiss ddaaggeeggmmiillii
ssaazzooggaaddooeebbrriivvii mmooZZrraaoobbaa „„qqaarrTTuu-
llii ooccnneebbiiss““ pprreezzeennttaacciiaa ddrrooee-
bbiiTT ggaaddaaiiddoo ddaa bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvvii-
lliiss pprreessssaammddiivvnnoo SSeeeeccddeebbaa pprree-
zzeennttaacciiiiss kkoonnkkrreettuullii TTaarriiRRii
uuaaxxllooeess ddRReeeebbSSii ggaaccnnoobbooTT..
biZina ivaniSvilis pressamdivnos gancxadeba
3#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
_ wina Camosvlaze hals-
tuxi rom CamomitaneT, me-
gona, axla kostums Camomi-
tandiT... ratom ar Camomi-
taneT kostumi? _ usayve-
dura saakaSvilma natos
generalur mdivans anders
fon rasmusens.
ra unda eTqva rasmu-
sens? imas xom ar etyoda,
Sen natos kostumi ki ara
sxva kostumi ufro mogix-
deboda, iseT raRacebs Ca-
dixar, genacvaleo.
cxadia, amas ver
etyoda, amitomac ase
daaimeda andersma ga-
butuli saakaSvili _
2012-13 wlebSi Tu
demokratiulad Caa-
tareb arCevnebs, kos-
tumsac Camogitan da
Coxa-axaluxsaco.
ara, mTlad sityva-
sityviT ase ar uTq-
vams, magram mis naTq-
vamSi es qveteqsti da
es qveSinaarsi ik-
iTxeboda.
batoni miSa demok-
ratiuli, samarTliani, mi-
ukerZoebeli arCevnebis Ca-
mtarebeli ar aris, ase rom,
saakaSvili didxans irbens
SiSvel tanze `Camocmuli~
rasmusenis halstuxiT da
saqarTveloc didxans iqne-
ba abezari maTxovariviT
atuzuli natos `Ria~ ka-
rebTan.
qarTvel musulmanebs sa-
akaSvilma yurban-bairamis
dResaswauli miuloca da
iqve dasZina: Cveni didi me-
fe daviT aRmaSenebeli me-
CeTSi dadioda da locu-
lobdao.
rao, kaco, rao? aRmaSe-
nebeli meCeTSi loculob-
dao?
saidan mogaqvT, Tqven,
pativcemulo, aseTi gamaog-
nebeli informaciebi?
romelma istorikosma
giTxraT aseTi ram, sad wa-
ikiTxeT, sad moismineT, vin
SegiyvanaT SecdomaSi, im
Cveni codviT savsem?
erTxel saakaSvilma Te-
lavSi, kaxelebis gulis
mosagebad ganacxada: _ Cven
ar wavalT markozaSvilebis
gziT, Cven erekles gziT
vivliTo.
erekles gza, mogexsene-
baT, ruseTisken midioda,
risi winaaRmdegnic iyvnen
e.w. markozaSvilebis darba-
zis wevrebi. anu baton saa-
kaSvils, rogorc ruseTis
Seurigebel oponents, sa-
dac samarTalia, piriqiT
unda eTqva: Cven erekles
gziT ar wavalT, Cven mar-
kozaSvilebis gziT unda vi-
aroTo.
Tumca, vin icis, saakaS-
vils iqneb zustad is wa-
moscda, rac gulSi ud-
evs?
xom gagigoniaT, Tu kar-
gad miugdeb yurs, qurdi
dReSi aTjer mainc gamoty-
debao.
saakaSvili, romelsac
misi oponentebi ruseTTan
farul garigebaSi sdeben
brals, sinamdvileSi swo-
red ruseTisken xom ar mi-
iswrafvis da dasavleTi,
Tavis natoianad, ise, sity-
vis masalad da Tavisi nam-
dvili zraxvebis SesaniRbad
xom ar sWirdeba?
ra vici... ra vici...
yovel SemTxvevaSi, sif-
rTxile gvmarTebs, rom na-
tos nacvlad putinis fe-
xebTan ar aRmovCndeT ga-
kotrialebelni.
rasmusenis halstuxi
daviT aRmaSenebeli musulmanebTanloculobda _ amtkicebs saakaSvili
_ erT Tvis win me davsvi kiTxva: aq Sekrebil adamia-
nebs _ SegiZliaT Tu ara gaimeoroT, rom saqarTvelom da-
iwyo omi?
dRes me isev minda gavimeoro es SekiTxva, oRond ga-
vumeoro sxvebsac _ `respublikelebs~ irakli alasanias,
aRzevebul mdabios _ biZina ivaniSvils: _ SegiZliaT Tu
ara dResac gaimeoroT, rom saqarTvelom daiwyo omi?
Tqveno aRmatebulebav, digvarovano da keTilSobilo
batono boco, rodis aqeT moganiWes nacionalebma Tavadis
tituli, rom biZina ivaniSvils mdabios eZaxiT?
ivaniSvili rom TvalSi gepataravebaT, albaT, danarCe-
ni qarTvelebi, Tqveni gundis beladis da Tqveni gundis
mier gaRatakebul-gaproletarebulni, albaT, mTlad Wia-
Ruebad geCvenebaT.
rac Seexeba Tqvens mier dasmul `CamWrel~ kiTxvas, vin
daiwyo omi? sul tyuilad afofindiT, Tqveno aRmatebu-
lebav, sul tyuilad ggoniaT, rom medvedevma aRiarebiTi
Cveneba mogcaT da amieridan Tavi qudSi geqnebaT.
saqme is aris, rom dRemde pasuxgaucemelia mTavari
kiTxva, ratom da rogor moxda, rom saqarTvelos xeli-
suflebam yvelaferi gaakeTa imisTvis, ruseTs xel-fexi
gaxsnoda da Tavisi mTavari mizani ganexorcielebina?
am kiTxvas dro aucileblad dasvams Tqvens winaSe da
SeiZleba iseTi Semzaravi simarTle gacxaddes, rom saqar-
Tvelom samudamod SegaCvenoT.
didgvarovan `nacionals~ mis aRmatebulebas boco(nugzar) wiklaurs `mdabio~
biZina ivaniSvili TvalSi epataraveba?
4 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
gvesaubreba filosofosi
goCa msxilaZe:
_ goCa rogor SeafasebT bi-
Zina ivaniSvilis Semosvlas qar-
Tul politikaSi? movlenebis ra
ganviTarebaa mosalodneli?
_ biZina ivaniSvilis politi-
kaSi mosvla SeiZleba erTi sity-
viT davaxasiaToT _ es aris mo-
lodini. jerjerobiT es aris er-
Tgvari disbalansi molodinebsa
da molodinebis Sesrulebas So-
ris. ivaniSvilis politikur siv-
rceSi gamoCenis yvelaze didi
saSiSroeba swored esaa. man mo-
lodinebis imxela Tamasa aswia,
ara rogorc politikurma moRva-
wem, aramed sakuTari pirovnebi-
dan gamomdinarem, Tavisgan damo-
ukideblad, RmerTma ar qnas, rom
es molodinebi sazogadoebas ga-
ucruvdes. Tu marTlac ase mox-
da, CaTvaleT, rom `nacionaluri
moZraobis~, sanam davberdebiT da
WaRara ar Segvepareba iqamde yu-
reba da atana mogviwevs.
_ biZina ivaniSvilis sakuTar
rezidenciaSi 18 saxelmwifos
elCi estumra. rogor fiqrob,
aqvs ivaniSvils dasavleTis
mxridan mxardaWera?
_ am movlenas Zalian sainte-
reso waxnagebi aqvs. kerZod, Tu
visaubrebT imaze, risTvis mivida
18 qveynis elCi ivaniSvilTan,
amas Zalian martivad vxsni _
esaa uzarmazari interesi am per-
sonis mimarT, maT undodaT gae-
goT, Tu ra politikur plat-
formaze dgas ivaniSvili. magram
erT saintereso detalze minda
gavamaxvilo Tqveni yuradReba,
kerZod, ra damarTa propagandis-
tulma manqanam qarTul sazoga-
doebas. es gaxlavT cnebebiT Jan-
glioroba, rasac pro-dasavlu-
roba da pro-rusuloba hqvia. mi-
Sas propagandistulma manqanam
sazogadoeba iseT verbalur vel-
Si moaqcia, rom mxolod urTi-
eTgamomricxavi kategoriebiT
vsaubrobT _ politikosi unda
iyos an pro-rusuli an pro-da-
savluri. amave dros, naTelia,
rom pro-rusuloba moRalateo-
baa, pro-dasavluroba _ patrio-
tizmi. aseTi azrovnebis dros
Zalian martivia cnobierebis ma-
nipulireba, radgan iarliyis mi-
webebaa advili da mtris xatis
Seqmna. arada, sazogadoebas bo-
lomde ar aqvs gacnobierebuli
da gaazrebuli, ras niSnavs cal-
ke pro-rusuloba da pro-dasav-
luroba _ es didi kiTxvis niS-
nis qveSaa. Cven Rirebulebebs, iq-
neba es politikuri Tu kultu-
ruli, xSir SemTxvevaSi, pro-da-
savlurobasTan saerTo araferi
aqvs. mas ganapirobebs is istori-
uli gza, romelic saqarTvelom
gaiara dasavleTisgan gansxvave-
biT. Cven ar gagvivlia reforma-
cia, ganmanaTlebloba, ar gvibr-
Zolia socialuri Tanasworobis-
Tvis. Cven mudmivad erovnuli ga-
darCeniTvis vibrZodiT. ar gag-
vivlia 1968 weli, ar gvyolia
bloki da monteskie. Sesabamisad,
rodesac pro-dasavlurobasa da
pro-rusulobaze vsaubrobT, ga-
urkvevel situaciaSi varT. unda
davfiqrdeT, ras niSnavs pro-da-
savluroba da pro-rusuloba. Tu
politikuri Rirebulebebis do-
neze davalT, maSin isini erTma-
neTs saerTod ar kveTen.
_ cnobilia, rom biZina iva-
niSvili gamarjvebas arCevnebis
gziT apirebs. Tumca iqamde xeli-
suflebas erTi weli aqvs. ro-
gor fiqrob, mosalodnelia Tu
ara garkveuli safrTxeebi, biZi-
na ivaniSvilis politikidan Ca-
moSorebis kuTxiT?
_ safrTxe iciT ra aris? _
is politikuri dividendebi, ro-
melic Tavisi mosvliT biZina iva-
niSvils aqvs, politikurma
brZolam ar gaafermkrTalos da
maRali RirebulebiTi konotacia,
rac mas aqvs, ar daakargvinos.
amis realuri safrTxe arsebobs.
aqve arsebobs sxva saSiSroebac _
Tu gaviTvaliswinebT qarTul sa-
zogadoebaSi mesianizmis erTgvar
elements, anu mesiis mosvlas _
aris saSiSroeba, rom misgan ki-
dev erTi kerpi Seiqmnas. aqve ik-
veTeba ori moZraoba _ erTi Ta-
vad biZina ivaniSvilis personaJi,
Tu ramdenad SeewinaaRmdgeba igi
im politikur nebas, tkbobas,
romlis winaSec SeiZleba aRmoC-
ndes gakerpebis SemTxvevaSi, meo-
re _ ramdenad iswavla sazoga-
doebam Wkua kerpebTan mimarTeba-
Si. ivaniSvili lakmusis qaRal-
dia, romelic bevr kiTxvaze gas-
cems pasuxs. Tu sazogadoeba uf-
ro Wkviani aRmoCndeba, vidre me
mgonia, maSin am saSiSroebas Ta-
vidan avicilebT. rogor unda mi-
videT arCevnebamde? _ politika
TavisTavSi gulisxmobs quCasac.
ivaniSvils deklarirebuli aqvs,
rom quCaSi gamosvlebs ar mimar-
Tavs, magram droTa ganmavlobaSi
politikuri saWiroeba ras mo-
iTxovs, amis mcodne dedamiwis
zurgze aravinaa. amitom, batoni
biZina politikur niuansebSi uf-
ro metad roca gaerkveva, mixvde-
ba, rom SeiZleba es gzac iyos
gamosayenebeli.
_ goCa, bolo dros bevrs sa-
ubroben, rom ivaniSvili, ro-
gorc politikosi Sedga. Tumca,
aviwydebaT misi ZiriTadi oponen-
ti _ xelisufleba, romelic
gulxeldakrefili namdvilad ar
zis.
_ Tu kidev vinme fiqrobs,
rom xelisuflebas sZinavs, is an
yrua an brma. kontrdartymebis
reJimi xelisuflebis mxridan
mudmivad gagrZeldeba. garda ami-
sa, CarTulia propagandistuli
manqana. xelisufleba sakmaod
kreatiulia opoziciis diskre-
ditaciis TvalsazrisiT. aris ki-
dev erTi garemoeba _ xelisuf-
lebasTan kamaTi sakmaod Znelia.
Zalian Znelia xelisuflebas ra-
cionalur kamaTSi ahyve, sadac
erTi mxare meore mxares argu-
mentebiT esaubreba. radganac isi-
ni am argumentis vels miRma ari-
an. maTTan SeuZlebelia kamaTi
imitom ki ara, rom simarTle maT
mxaresaa da meore mxares es si-
marTle araa, aramed imitom, rom
xelisufleba ar operirebs si-
marTle-arsimarTlis kriteriu-
mebiT. maT mxolod erTi ena es-
miT _ isini unda marTavdnen ise,
rogorc aqamde marTavdnen da
morCa. rogorc ki maT argumente-
biT epaeqrebi, mudam xeli geca-
reba, radgan Tu erTi mxare cdi-
lobs xelisuflebas argumentebi
daupirispiros, igi winaswar Ca-
moyalibebuli varaudebiT gesaub-
reba, Sesabamisad, yovelgvari ra-
cionaluri dava masTan azrs mok-
lebulia. amitom ivaniSvilma po-
litikuri brZolis yvela forma
unda gamoiyenos.
Tamar SveliZe
biZina ivaniSvilma politikuri brZolis
yvela gza unda gamoiyenos
18 noembers gamoCenil qarTvel mwerals Wabua amire-jibs 90 weli Seusrulda.
`saerTo gazeTma~ oriode kiTxviT mimarTa mas.
_ batono Wabua, rogor uyurebT Tqvens ganvlil cxov-
rebas dRevandeli gadasaxedidan da moganiWaT Tu ara be-
rulma cxovrebam sulieri simSvide?
_ Cems mier ganvlili cxovreba, upirvelesad yovlisa,
RmrTis mier boZebuli sulierebis produqtia da amdenad,
dadebiTad vafaseb yovel nabijs, romelic Cemi da Tqveni
samSoblos awmyosa da Cemi da Tqveni eris momavlisTvis ga-
damidgams, rac Seexeba berul cxovrebas, mogaxsenebT, rom
berad aRkvecas Cems cxovrebaSi gadamwyveti cvlilebebi ar
moutania, jer kidev Wabukobis droidan marTlmadidebeli
qristiani viyavi da var dResac. sulieri simSvide SiSis
grZnobis Zlevam momaniWa _ sicocxlesTan ganSorebis SiSs,
trabaxSi nuravin CamomarTmevs, Wabukobidanve vZlie.
_ rogor uyurebT saqarTvelos dRevandel rTul mdgo-
mareobas danarCen msofliosTan mimarTebaSi?
_ ar mimaCnia, rom qarTvel ers da mTlianad saqarTve-
los dRes tragikulad rTuli mdgomareoba hqondes.
Cveni istoria rTuli da umZimes gansacdelTa istoriaa.
magram agera _ varT, vviTardebiT, momavals vimzadebT mi-
uxedavad imisa, rom naklul SesaZleblobaTa meTaurebis
xelT varT. amaod fafxuroben, saakaSvilebi da misTanani
ver mogverevian, gamarjvebebiT aRniSnuli eri varT da mo-
mavalic aseTi gveqneba.
eTer kasreliSvili
bbaattoonnoo WWaabbuuaa,,
Tqveni cxovreba naTeli magaliTia imisa, Tu rogor Se-
iZleba Secvalos erTi adamianis mier ganvlilma wlebma
da naazrevma mTeli sazogadoeba. Tqven zneobrivi gmiris
saxe SeqmeniT maSin, rodesac bolSevizmi yvelafers ake-
Tebda Cveni sulebis dasaknineblad. am gmirma ukve Taobe-
bi aRzarda da gzac gaakvlevina Cven urTules samyaroSi.
metadre igi gvWirdeba dRes, rodesac qveyanas daeuf-
lnen adamianebi, visTvisac Cven mxolod istoriis saSeni
masalani varT da visac erTi adamianis mier meorisTvis
gaweul sikeTeSic ki angarebisa da boroti zraxvis amo-
kiTxva SeuZlia. RvTis madliT da Tqveni da TqvenisTane-
bis naazrevis SemweobiT Cven yvelani maTac davZlevT da
erTad aRvisrulebT qarTul ocnebas.
suliT da guliT gilocavT iubiles! dae, kidev mra-
val wels gvyavdeT, kidev mraval wels mogvyvebodes Tqve-
ni fxizeli zneobrivi Tvali!
uRrmesi pativiscemiT
biZina ivaniSvili
batoni Wabua iubilaria
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
5saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
gvesaubreba poeti
baRaTer arabuli:_ `saerTo gazeTi~ Zalian
obieqturad aSuqebs dRevandel
politikur viTarebas. qarTuli
politikuri cxovreba aWrilia
da dawmendas saWiroebs. `saerTo
gazeTi~ qarTuli sazogadoebis
sworad CamoyalibebaSi did
rols asrulebs. amisaTvis mis
redaqtors vaxtang xarCilavas
did madlobas vuxdi. aqve minda
visargeblo SemTxveviT da mivu-
loco mas galaktion tabiZis
premia qarTul mwerlobaSi Se-
tanili gansakuTrebuli wvli-
lisTvis. igi aris gamoCeuli pi-
rovneba, poeti, romelmac Tavisi
leqsebiT, gazeTiT didi roli
Seasrula qveynis samsaxurSi.
rac Seexeba Tqvens SekiTxvas,
bolo dros qarTuli politi-
kuri mdinareba Camkvdari iyo
imitom, rom `nacionalurma moZ-
raobam~ yvelaferi gaakeTa, raTa
saqarTveloSi opoziciuri xma
ar yofiliyo. bolo dros davi-
naxeT, Tu rogor gaiyida Tavi
araerTma politikurma partiam,
romlebic xelisuflebas Seekr-
nen. prezidenti gveubneba, rom
ekonomikuri aRmasvlaa Cvens qve-
yanaSi, Tumca realuri suraTi
sul sxvaa _ sazogadoebis 70
procenti umuSevaria, visac Se-
uZlia yvela saqarTvelodan
garbis da sakuTari nebiT ukan
dabrunebuli aravin minaxavs.
dRes, Tu `nacionaluri moZrao-
bis~ wevri ar xar, ar arsebobs
samsaxuris Sovnis, biznesis
warmoebis garantia, aseTi tero-
ri komunistebis drosac ki ar
yofila arapartiulebis mimarT.
Tu nacionali ar xar, e.i. qvey-
nis mteri xar da maSinve krimi-
nalad, ruseTis agentad gamo-
gacxadeben. ebraelebs aqvT
brZnuli gamonaTqvami _ arc Se-
ni icode da arc sxvisi gjero-
deso. ase sWirs Cvens xelisuf-
lebas. xalxs politikuri cxov-
rebis mimarT rwmena dakarguli
aqvs. ar sjeraT, rom maTi xmis
micemiT qveyanaSi raime Seicvle-
ba, radgan `nacionaluri moZra-
oba~ qveyanaSi politikuri diq-
tatis warmmarTvelia da yvela-
feri ise iqneba, rogorc maT en-
domebaT. am dros gamoCnda qar-
Tul politikaSi axali saxeli
biZina ivaniSvilis saxiT. daWao-
bebuli garemo uceb gacocxlda,
mosaxleobam TiTqos gaiRviZa,
gamodis im Zilburanidan, saRa-
Tas Zilidan, romelSic igi xe-
lisuflebam Seiyvana. iwyeba sa-
zogadoebis axleburi azrovneba,
xalxs aRar unda iyvnen monebi,
sicruis samyaroSi cxovreba.
xalxs unda simarTlis mTqmeli
media, xelisufleba, parlamenti,
romelic TeTrze ityvis TeT-
riao, Savze ki _ Saviao. biZina
ivaniSvili wlebis manZilze an-
garebis, yovelgari aJitirebis
gareSe afinansebda yvelafers,
rasac xelisufleba Semdgom sa-
kuTar Tavze iwerda. biZina iva-
niSvili uangarod afinansebda
kulturas, mecnierebas, im pi-
rovnebebs, visac mwerlobaSi di-
di wvlili aqvT Setanili da
a.S.
_ Tavdapirvelad biZina iva-
niSvilze xelisuflebis mier
ganxorcielebul dartymebs du-
miliT Sexvdnen kulturis, mec-
nierebisa Tu sxva dargis moRva-
weebi, romelTac biznesmeni wle-
bis manZilze sakmaod solidur
Tanxebs uricxavda. rogor fiq-
robT, ratom dums inteligenci-
is didi nawili?
_ Tqveni mosazreba mTlad
zusti ar aris. am xalxis na-
wilma mogvianebiT, Tumca Tavian-
Ti pozicia presis furclebidan
gamoxata. mwerlebis mxardasaWe-
ri gancxadebac gamoqveynda, ase-
ve mxatvrebis, msaxiobebis da
a.S. Tumca, meore mxriv, geTanx-
mebiT, sazogadoebis nawili isea
daterorebuli, rom SeSinebul-
ni arian da xmamaRla ver afiq-
sireben sakuTar azrs. ver beda-
ven prezidents uTxran, aRudgi-
nos moqalaqeoba biZina ivaniS-
vils. maSin, roca saqarTvelos
moqalaqeobas aZleven iseT pirs,
vinc ruseTSi putinze raRac wa-
ibJutura. viRac panfilovebis
da viRacebis saxetialo ar un-
da iyos saqarTvelos terito-
ria.
saqarTvelos pre-zidentis udidesi Sec-domaa biZina ivaniSvi-lisTvis saqarTvelosmoqalaqeobis CamorT-meva, piriqiT misTvissaakaSvils sapatiomoqalaqis wodeba un-da mieniWebina.
saakaSvilma kargad unda
icodes, rom mis xelisuflebaSi
darCenas arc evropa, arc aSS
mxars ar uWers imitom, rom igi
kavkasiis regionSi destabiliza-
ciis erT-erTi muxtia. ivaniS-
vilma 1 miliard 300 milioni
lari daxarja saqarTvelosTvis,
exmareboda xelisuflebas, mag-
ram rodesac is mixvda, rom sa-
akaSvilis politika diqtato-
rulia, gadawyvita mas gasclo-
da. da es biZina ivaniSvilma ga-
akeTa 2008 wels, rodesac dai-
naxa, rom saqarTvelom gauazreb-
lad daiwyo cxinvalis, sakuTa-
ri moqalaqeebis dabombva. iva-
niSvils gansakuTrebuli arafe-
ri uTqvams, es taliavinis dask-
vnaSic weria, rom farTomasSta-
biani saomari qmedeba saqarTve-
los mxarem daiwyo. biZina iva-
niSvili TeTrze-Te-
Trs da Savze-Savs
ambobs. igi ambobs,
rom moswyinda sic-
rueSi cxovreba. mas
unda misi ojaxi da
yvela cxovrobdes
iseT saqarTveloSi,
sadac ar eSiniaT te-
lefonze darekvisas
vinmem ar mogisminos
da sadac ar atyueben
TiTqos ruseTze ga-
vimarjveT. realurad
samarcxvinod davmar-
cxdiT 3 dReSi. biZi-
na ivaniSvilma poli-
tikaSi mosvlisas
Tqva _ ruseTTan
gvqonda konfliqti,
magram am geopolitikidan ver
amovvardebiT, ver davimalebiT
versad. vercerTi ver gamovicv-
liT binas da sxva korpusSi ver
gadavalT sacxovreblad. Cven
valdebulni varT mezoblebTan
Cveni politikiT, urTierTobiT
movagvaroT problema da mere
veZeboT gareT sxva megobrebi,
radgan Tu karis mezoblebTan ar
gaqvs problema mogvarebuli,
yovelTvis geqneba saxlSi prob-
lemebi. biZina ivaniSvilmac swo-
red es Tqva _ ruseTTan unda
movagvaroT problemebi, Tu gvin-
da afxazeTsa da samaCablos dab-
runebaze vifiqroT. maTTan ur-
TierTobis mogvarebis gasaRebi
ki, Cemi azriT, swored ruseTSi
devs. aqve minda aRvniSno, rom
Tavad ruseTs samaCablo da
afxazeTi sakmaod mZime tvirTad
awevs kiserze. maT Sesanaxad, mas
miliardebis daxarjva uwevs. pu-
tinma araerTxel ganacxada _
SeiZleba molaparakebebi da sa-
ubris dawyeba teritoriebis
Sesaxeb. saubris dawyebis SemTx-
vevaSi dabrunebis Sansi realu-
rad Cndeba. saqarTveloSi soci-
alur-ekonomikuri garemo piro-
bebi unda Seiqmnas, raTa oss da
afxazs TbilisSi Camosvla uf-
ro uxarodes, vidre moskovSi.
roca biznesi da sxva sferoebi
terorisgan ganTavisufldeba,
yvelas gauxardeba Camosvla.
_ dRes biZina ivaniSvilis
biznesic xelisuflebis tero-
ris qveS aRmoCnda. xelisufle-
bis ukanono qmedebebis mimarT
ivaniSvili jerjerobiT uZlu-
ria. rogor gesaxebaT movlene-
bis ganviTareba?
_ amazrzenia xelisuflebis
qmedeba. sanam biZina ivaniSvili
xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Taoba-
ze ganacxadebda, manamde mis mzes
ficulobdnen, axla ki xelisuf-
lebisTvis miuRebeli gaxda, ax-
la aRmoCnda isic, rom lebedis,
putinis megobari yofila, SeiZ-
leba ivaniSvils arc hyavs pi-
rispir putini nanaxi. saocaria,
kaci, romelmac amdeni fuli Ca-
do saqarTvelos gadarCenisTvis,
axla mtrad iqca. am dros ki xe-
lisuflebas hyavs benduqiZe,
romelic gaurkveveli cnobiere-
bis, fsiqologiis, warmomavlo-
bisaa, romelmac ruseTis xeli-
suflebas strategiuli obieq-
tebi mihyida da mtrad ar iTv-
leba. xelisufleba ormag Ta-
maSs eweva _ erTi mxriv biZina
ivaniSvilis fuls, romelic man
ruseTSi daagrova da saqarTve-
los sakeTildReod gamoiyena,
rusul fulad miiCnevs, meore
mxriv _ kaxa benduqiZes, romel-
sac dResac ruseTSi aqvs bizne-
si, ufleba misces yvela stra-
tegiuli obieqti ruseTisTvis
mieyida. kaxa benduqiZe gamodis
saqarTvelos patrioti, ivaniS-
vilis qvelmoqmedeba ki politi-
kaSi mosvlis gancxadebis gamo,
xelisuflebas aRar axsovs. xe-
lisuflebam unda icodes, rom
igi maradiuli ver iqneba. rac
Seexeba `qarTu bankis~ sainkasa-
cio manqanaze Tavdasxmas, es xe-
lisuflebis mxridan didi dana-
Sauli iyo. es aris Ria yaCaRo-
ba, rac arcerT civilur qveya-
naSi ar xdeba. aseTi ram demok-
ratiis Suqura qveynebSi ar xde-
ba. aseTi faqtis gamo normalur
qveyanaSi prezidents SeiZleba
impiCmentic gamoucxadon. ro-
gorc iciT, axla igoneben axal-
axal kanonebs, raTa biZina iva-
niSvilis fuli naklebad iyos
CarTuli arCevnebSi. minda gavax-
seno nacionalebs, wina arCevneb-
Si maT saarCevno yulaba biznes-
menebis daterorebis Sedegad 13
milioni lariT Seivso. maSin,
rodesac yvela opoziciur par-
tias erTad aRebuli mxolod
500 aTasi lari hqondaT. dRes,
Turme aRar SeiZleba saarCevnod
am fulis gamoyeneba. xelisuf-
leba ecdeba biZina ivaniSvilis
finansebi saagitacio-sapropagan-
do sistemaSi aqtiurad ar iyos
CarTuli. Tumca araferi gamou-
vaT. rodesac erovnuli Zalebi
xelisuflebaSi movidnen, zviad
gamsaxurdias da mis gunds kapi-
ki ar hqondaT jibeSi. komunis-
tebs ki hqondaT yvela berketi
raikomis mdivnebidan dawyebuli
fuliT damTavrebuli. ise, ro-
gorc dRes aqvs fuli `naciona-
lur moZraobas~, romelic komu-
nisturi partiis ideologiis
tyupiscalia da savsea maTi STa-
momavlebiT, Tundac giorgi ar-
velaZe, romelic dRes `imeds~
marTavs, mamamisi _ taxir arve-
laZe qalaqis meris moadgile
iyo da kagad wvelida komunis-
tebs. dRes misi Svili igive
ideologiiT marTavs `imeds~.
zviad gamsaxurdiam komunisturi
partia fulis gareSe daamarcxa
Ria moedanze. dRes, absolutu-
rad igive moxdeba, radgan faq-
tobrivad saqarTvelos mTeli
mosaxleoba saRaTas Zilidan uk-
ve gamodis da iRviZebs is erov-
nuli sulis muxti, romelic
zviad gamsaxurdias dros arse-
bobda. veraviTari winaRoba, je-
biri mas win ver daudgeba. biZi-
na ivaniSvili aris pirovneba,
romelsac SeuZlia yovelgvari
finansebis gareSe movides xeli-
suflebaSi da daarqvas TeTrs _
TeTri, Savs _ Savi.
_ Tqven biZina ivaniSvilis
gapremierministrebaze jer kidev
2009 wels gaakeTeT gancxadeba
presaSi. maSin biZina ivaniSvili
Cumad eweoda qvelmoqmedebas da
mis politikaSi mosvlas veravin
ifiqrebda. ras emyareboda maSin
Tqveni mosazreba da ras elode-
biT axla misgan?
_ diax, es iyo 2009 wels,
rodesac biZina ivaniSvili ar-
cerT politikur gamokiTxvebSi
ar figurirebda, am periodSi ga-
vakeTe gaTvlebi. ivaniSvilma Ta-
visi niWiT, SromiT Seqmna didi
biznesi. ruseTSi, am uzarmazar
qveyanaSi upatrono qarTvelma,
yovelgvari mxardaWeris gareSe
did warmatebis miaRwia. es niS-
navs, rom aseTi adamiani, TiToe-
uli qarTvelis valdebulebaa,
movabrunoT saqarTveloSi da
qveynis sakeTildReod gamoviye-
noT da ara mtrebad da moRala-
teebad gamovacxadoT. 2009
wels `asaval-dasavals~ hqonda
rubrika `vin gesaxebaT momaval
prezidentad da premier minist-
rad?~ maSin davwere, rom premi-
er-ministri biZina ivaniSvili
unda yofiliyo, anu adamiani,
romelic meurnea da saqmis keTe-
ba SeuZlia. vfiqrob, Cemi winas-
warmetyveleba aucileblad aRs-
6 gv.
ivaniSvilisTvis moqalaqeobis CamorTmeva sveticxovlis
amSeneblis _ arsakiZisTvis marjvenis moWris tolfasia
6 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
ruldeba. vanga ar var, Tumca
visac analizis unari aqvs dame-
Tanxmeba, rom saqarTveloSi sa-
kuTari Tavis realizebis ufle-
ba aseT adamians unda mieces. igi
wlebia saqarTvelodan ar gasu-
la da moqalaqeoba ki ar unda
waarTva, piriqiT sapatio moqa-
laqis wodeba unda mianiWo. xe-
lisuflebam Tu ar gaakeTa, es
xalxi gaakeTebs amas. xelisuf-
lebas ki Zalian cudad Semoub-
rundeba es yvelaferi imitom,
rom Tu biZina ivaniSvils xeli
SeeSleba, mTeli mosaxleoba ga-
reT gamova da SeiZleba rame
ubedurebac datrialdes. aqve
unda aRiniSos, rom xelisufle-
bam ukve daiwyo aqtiuri mzade-
ba arCevnebisTvis. xelisuflebam
SeiZleba naadrevad momavali
wlis Semodgomamde daniSnos
arCevnebi, imaze gaTvliT, rom
ivaniSvils jer politikuri
partia Seqmnili ar aqvs. maqvs
informacia, rom xelisuflebas
unda, daaswron ivaniSvils da
sanam igi struqturebs Seqmnis
Caataron arCevnebi. xelisufle-
bam samSobiaro saxlebSi `naci-
onaluri moZraobis~ egidiT uk-
ve daiwyo mSobiareebis dafinan-
seba. faqtobrivad, saakaSvilmac
ukve gaaqtiura saarCevno gasv-
lebi regionebSi. amitom biZina
ivaniSvils Tqveni gazeTis meSve-
obiT minda mokrZalebiT vurCio
_ saswrafod Seqnas struqtu-
rebi, mrCevelTa sabWoSi auci-
leblad Seiyvanos azerbaija-
nelebis, somxebis warmomadgen-
lebi, imitom, rom xelisufle-
bas Zalian didi imedi aqvs miZi-
nebuli, maTi mxardamWeri ara-
qarTuli regionebis mosaxleo-
bis. amitom ivaniSvilma didi aq-
tiuroba unda gamoiCinos am re-
gionebis mosaxleobis CarTulo-
bisTvis. aucilebelia igi Sexv-
des samecniero wris warmomad-
genlebs, inteligencias, mweral-
Ta kavSirs, sxva SemoqmedebiT
kavSirebs. aucilebelia adgi-
lebze Sexvedrebi araqarTul
mosaxleobasTan. unda moxdes
araqarTulenovani _ azerbaija-
nuli, somxuri presis xelSe-
wyoba, raTa miewodos informa-
cia vin aris da ras saqmianobs
biZina ivaniSvili. am struqtu-
rebis Seqmnis daCqarebaa saWiro,
winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi xeli-
sufleba yvelafers gaakeTebs,
raTa biZina ivaniSvilis avtori-
teti gaaneitralos. RmerTma ar
qnas, es moxdes, radgan es iqne-
ba qarTveli xalxis tragedia.
qarTuli ocneba aucileblad
unda axdes. xazgasmiT minda aR-
vniSno _ man gverdiT daiyena
dasavluri azrovnebis, Rirebu-
lebebis damcveli partiebi. Tu
xelisufleba arCevnebis adreu-
lad daniSvnas gadawyvets, iva-
niSvili iZulebuli gaxdeba
irakli alasanias partiiT Tavi-
si idelogiis, interesebis rea-
lizeba moaxdinos. aqve minda aR-
vniSno, rom qarTveli mwerle-
bis umravlesoba gverdiT daud-
geba simarTles, qarTuli ocne-
bis axdenas.
_ TqvenTvis ra aris qarTu-
li ocneba da rogor gesaxebaT
misi axdena?
_ es aris qarTuli intere-
sebis, cnobierebis, kulturis,
fesvebis, tradiciebis moazreba
da am mimarTulebiT saxelmwi-
fos mSenebloba. am yvelafris
gareSe qveynis Seneba niSnavs,
rom mas silaze vaSenebT. aseTi
aSenebuli qveyana CamoiSleba.
dRes, xelisufleba gveubneba
yvelam inglisuri ena unda is-
wavloTo, es cudi araa, magram
iaponiam, CineTma inglisuri enis
codnis gareSe miaRwies udides
ekonomikur warmatebebs. roca
yvealfris mospobas da axali
qarTvelis Seqmnas cdilob, es
droebiTi movlenaa da swored
silaze saxlis mSeneblobas
hgavs, romelic aucileblad Ca-
moiSleba. dRes, Cven Zalian bev-
ri, silaze aSenebuli azrovne-
bis nimuSi gvaqvs saqarTveloSi.
axla araprofesionalebis poli-
tikiT imarTeba saqarTvelo da
dro dadga profesionalebi em-
saxuron qveyanas. biZina ivaniSvi-
li swored amas ambobs _ Sevqm-
ni iseT garemos, rom saqarTve-
loSi yvelam Tavisi saqme ake-
Tos da yvela profesia dafase-
buli iyos. saqarTvelo soflis
meurneobis qveyanaa da ivaniSvi-
lic prioritets swored amas
aniWebs. saqarTvelo, Tavisi ge-
ografiuli mdebareobidan gamom-
dinare, im sferoebis warmmarT-
veli unda iyos, rac qarTvel
xalxs odiTganve exerxeboda.
turizmze ar unda aago qveyana,
radgan igi yvela qveyanaSi aris
maTi wyaroebis, produqciis
propagandis reklamis saSualeba
da ara maTi ZiriTadi Semosava-
li. turistebis meti araferi
hyavda egviptes, magram davinaxeT
rogor CamoiSala es qveyana. yve-
la qarTvelis mcdeloba, biZina
ivaniSvilTan erTad, mimarTuli
unda iyos ukeTesi saqarTvelos
Senebisken.
_ bolos patriarqis gancxa-
debazec minda gkiTxoT. man saa-
kaSvils biZina ivaniSvilisTvis
moqalaqeobis dabrunebisken mou-
woda.
_ biZina ivaniSvilma aaSena
samebis taZari. saqarTvelos
swored am kulturuli ZegliT
Seafaseben da ara mtkvarze ga-
daWimuli lokokinis msgavsi xi-
diT. qarTveli kacisTvis moqa-
laqeoba-armoqalaqeobis miniWeba
erTi kacis xuSturebiT ar un-
da xdebodes. is vinc qarTul
saqmes akeTebs, qarTuli cnobie-
rebis matarebelia _ ucxoeTSi
iqneba Tu aq, igi imsaxurebs sa-
qarTvelos moqalaqeobas. swo-
red es brZana patriarqma. Tu sa-
akaSvili gonierebas gamoiCens
da Secdomas gamoasworebs, amiT
saqarTveloSi cxovrebis da
moRvaweobis perspeqtivas gai-
xangrZlivebs. winaaRmdeg SemTx-
vevaSi, Tu ivaniSvils moqalaqe-
obas ar miscemen, CavTvaloT,
rom saqarTveloSi Zalian bevrs,
saakaSvilis, minaSvilis, gila-
uris da im xalxis, vinc parla-
mentSi sxedan da kacma ar icis
maTi warmoSobis Sesaxeb, maTi
bedic gasarkvevi iqneba samomav-
lod. minaSvilis Tu minasianis
gadasawyveti ar unda iyos iqne-
ba Tu ara ivaniSvili saqarTve-
los moqalaqe. ivaniSvilisTvis
moqalaqeobis CamorTmeva sve-
ticxovlis amSeneblis _ arsaki-
ZisTvis marjvenis moWris tol-
fasia.
Tamar SveliZe
5 gv.
mwerali
guram odiSaria: _CemTvis `qarTul ocnebaSi~
qarTvelebis gaerTianeba moiaz-
reba. bolo 25 welia erT xeli-
suflebas meore cvlis da ase
uwyvetad. qarTvelebs Soris
mudmiv dapirispirebas mtkivneu-
lad da mZafrad aRviqvam.
yvela adamiani bedniereba-
ze da ukeTesze fiqrobs, Tavisi
ojaxis keTildReobas natrobs.
Tumca, upirveles yovlisa, al-
baT, Zalian bevri samSoblos
bednier momavalze fiqrobs. yo-
vel SemTxvevaSi, ase unda iyos.
samSoblos mivusadagebT Cven am
frazas-`qarTul ocnebas~ ami-
tom Cemi gadasaxedidan da Ce-
mi samreklodan vambob: qarTu-
li ocnebaa, saqarTvelos Svi-
lebma moZebnon erTi sayrdeni.
TiToeulma warmoaCinos Tavi-
si Zliereba, anu rac mas ukeT
gamosdis: politikuri azrov-
neba, zneobrivi simaRle, mate-
rialuri resursi...yvelaferi
erTad... radgan es erToblio-
ba xval da zeg mTel saqarT-
velos wagvadgeba. ufro metad
viswavloT erTmaneTSi dialo-
gi, urTierTgageba gvqondes da
Tanac, sityva saqmed vaqcioT.
is saSineli dapirispireba,
rac wlebia usasrulod
grZeldeba, bolos da bolos
dasrulebuliyos.
TiToeul qarTvelSi vxedav
bevr dadebiTs da minda am re-
sursis Sekreba. (ara marto qar-
Tvelebi, saqarTveloSi mcxovre-
bi sxva erebic myavs mxedveloba-
Si-saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi.)ma-
Sin Cvenze bednieri, lamazi da
mowesrigebuli qveyana iSviaTad
iqneba am dedamiwaze da garda
imisa, rom Tavsac gadavarCenT,
gadavrCenT sxvebsac, radgan
sxvebisTvisac viqnebiT magaliTi.
bevrs vmogzaurob da vici:
yofil sabWoTa kavSirSi yvela-
ze mware, yvelaze mwvave poli-
tikuri dapirispireba Cven gvaqvs
erTmaneTSi. mova dro da ra Tqma
unda, es procesebi dalagdeba,
ar iqneba mwvave dapirispirebebi,
magram SevamciroT, SevamokloT
is dro.
soxumeli kaci var da erTi
ram kargad gavisigrZegane-dab-
rundeba mxolod frinvelTa
gundi, marto frinvels ar SeuZ-
lia dabruneba. ase rom, Cven-yve-
lani erTad viqnebiT gamarjvebu-
lebi, an davmarcxdebiT im qro-
nikuli damarcxebiT, romelSic
bolo periodia zedized vmarcx-
debiT. es aris Cveni ubedureba,
rom ver vswavlobT Wkuas saku-
Tar damarcxebebze. kidev er-
Txel vambob xazgasmiT, `qarTu-
li ocnebis~ asrulebas vukavSi-
reb TiToeul Cvengans gundurad
da ara cal-calke.
_ batono guram, rogor fiq-
robT, ekuTvnis Tu ara biZina
ivaniSvils saqarTvelos moqala-
qeoba?_
_ ekuTvnis, ra Tqma unda. vis
vis da biZina ivaniSvils saqarT-
velos moqalaqeoba unda hqon-
des, amaze ori azri ar maqvs.
kacma amdeni gaakeTos Tavisi
qveynisTvis-saqarTvelosTvis da
mere raRac kanonebiT CaveZioT,
rom iq raRac darRveula da ami-
tom ar SeiZleba da a.S...ar aris
marTebuli midgoma.
netav, am kanonis garda Cven
qveyanaSi darRveuli wesebi da
kanonebi ar arsebobdes.
naTia nodia
msaxiobi guram fircxalava:_ batono guram, ras fiqrobT im `qarTul ocnebaze~, rac
biZina ivaniSvilma samomavlod aRgviTqva?_
_ `qarTuli ocneba~_yvelaferia Tqmuli am ori sityviT.
ori sityva, rom ase SeaerTa da miusadaga, magas venacvale. mar-
Tlac SesaniSnavi slogania.
msurs is ocneba ausruldes qveyanas, risi ocnebac dRevan-
delma mTavrobam daukarga. imedi maqvs Canafiqri agvisrulde-
ba.
pirvel rigSi, Tavisuflebis wyurvili gvaqvs qarTvelebs.
es iqneba sasamarTlo, media saSualeba, Tu adamianis uflebe-
bis dacvisaTvis sxva aucilebeli piroba.
qarTvelebis ocnebaa Tavisufali saqarTvelo da Cven qveya-
naSi xalxs erTmaneTi uyvardes.amaT, ai am xelisuflebam, ada-
mianebs erTmaneTi SeaZula.
xolo `qarTuli ocneba~ es mxolod ivaniSvilis ocneba ki
ara, sruliad saqarTvelos ocnebaa da zustad aris mignebuli
sityvebi. batoni biZinas didi imedi maqvs, rom am ocnebas ag-
visrulebs.
naTia nodia
ras fiqroben qarTvelebi `qarTul ocnebaze~
7saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
naira gelaSvili, mwerali:
`...Cemis azriT, xelisuflebam gadawy-
vita, arc erTi danaSauli ar dato-
vos Caudeneli. es iqneba uzarmazari
masStabis danaSauli, romelic aravi-
Tar SemTxvevaSi ar unda moxdes. min-
da mivmarTo sazogadoebas: ar unda
aSendes xudonhesi, arc erTi gigantu-
ri hesi, es aris antimecnieruli, sru-
li umecrebidan amozrdili gadawyve-
tileba. da rac mTavaria, amis erTa-
derTi impulsi aris mxolod fulis
Sovna. es aris im Zalebis mier wa-
mowyebuli damRupveli proeqtebi,
romlebic ar apireben am qveyanaSi
cxovrebas. romelTa mizania, moasw-
ron, TavianTi xelisuflebaSi yofnis
vada bolomde gamoiyenon, rac ki Se-
iZleba yvelaferi gamowuron am gaube-
durebul qveyanas, fuli iSovon da
mere aqedan wavidnen. me aseTi STabeW-
dileba mrCeba, imitom rom Tu es da-
finansda aq itrialebs didi fuli da
hudon hesidan araviTari sargebloba
ar eqneba saqarTvelos. es eleqtroni
gasayidad aris gamoiznuli da ar da-
ijeros xaiSis mosaxleobam, rom maT
vinme raime kompensacias miscems. yve-
lafris gareSe datoveben, rogorc
datoves ltolvilebi da iseve moeq-
cevian, rogorc ltolvilebs eqcevian
dRes.
me mainteresebs, vin wyvets amas?
sad iyo komisia ekologebis, hidro-
logebis, vin gaauqma maSindeli daskv-
na, romelic iyo saukeTeso mecniere-
bis mier SemuSavebuli xudonhesTan
dakavSirebiT. vin iRebs gadawyvetile-
bas, gilauri?! ra icis gilaurma sa-
erTod am sferosi?! aba vin?! rogor
unda aSendes konkretuli nageboba, es
aris am sferos specialistis saqme,
magram nageboba, romelic warmoadgens
uxeS SeWras bunebis cocxal orga-
nizmSi da ra gavlenas moaxdens masze
da adamianze, es aris humanitaruli
sferos warmomadgenelTa kompetencia.
da es SeiZleba yvelaze ukeT poetma
dainaxos, radgan poezia es aris umok-
lesi gza nawilidan mTelisaken da
swored poeturi sulis adamianma yve-
laze kargad icis, ra aris gasafrTxi-
lebeli da yvelaze faqizi, risi xel-
yofa ar SeiZleba. ers vaJa-fSavela
gyavdes, romelic bunebis mesityvea,
xmeli wiofeli da Svlis nukri dagi-
tovos wianparma, da ese eqceode bu-
nebas?! xom unda airCio, visi memkvid-
re xar - vaJasi Tu barbarosebis?
...yoveli wyalsacavi moqmedebs ara
marto fizikur-geografiul garemoze,
aramed dasaxlebuli punqtebis sani-
tarul mdgomareobaze, landSaftis
cvlilebaze da a.S. anu iwvevs socia-
lur, ekonomiur, biologiur, geoqimi-
ur da sxva saxis cvlilebebs. anu ir-
Rveva ekobalansi. da davukvirdeT um-
Tavres, rac CvenTvis seismurad aqti-
uri regionisaTvis, aris danmRupveli,
rom didi wyalsacavis xelovnurad
Seqmna xSirad iwvevs aRZrul miwisZv-
rebs, ris Sedegadac gamowveuli zara-
li arafriT Camouvardeba Cveulebri-
vi miwisZvrebiT miyenebul zarals.
praqtika aCvenbs, rom giganturi hese-
bi iwvevda adamianur msxverpls da
erovnul ubedurebasac. yovelwliu-
rad aRiniSneba kaSxalTa ngreva da
avariebi. Cvens qveyanaSi wyalsacavebi
imaze metia, rac SeiZleba qveyanam
aitanos. aviRoT enguri da Jinvali,
ra SeiZleba moxdes samomari moqmede-
bebis dros maTi dabombvis SemTxveva-
Si? an miwisZvirs dros, Tuki epicen-
tri iqneba am teritoriebze?! es xom
damokles maxvilia saqarTvelos Tav-
ze. Cven xom mTlianad varT ganwiru-
lebi!
am sakiTxebma gagaverTianes maSin
Cven, mTeli qarTuli sazogadoeba. ax-
la wagikiTxavT erT leqss:
saukune uaxlesi
am engurhesiT da JinvalhesiT
surT, saqarTvelos augon wesi.
Cvens brge cixeebs, tankenar taZrebs
es saukune spobs uaxlesi.
male gveqneba minaZehesi
daSlis varZias, zarzmas da xerTviss,
gminva-ggodeba javaxis, mesxis
aboboqrebul talRebs SeerTvis.
am xudoinhesiT, namoxvanhesiT
svaneTs da leCxums surT,
dascen mexi,
rom samudamod Cvens mTianeTSi
amoukveTon qarTvel kacs fexi.
am engurhesiT da JinvalhesiT
surT, saqarTvelos augon wesi.
Tan gvarwmuneben, icavso Zeglebs
es saukune udiadesi.
am leqsis avtori gaxlavT zviad
gamsaxurdia. Cemi damokidebuleba zvi-
da gamsaxurdiasa da im procesebisad-
mi, yvelam icis, aris sruliad kriti-
kuli. magram zviad gamsaxurdias
hqonda Zlieri mxare, arsebobda sfe-
ro, sadac is iyo Zalian kompetentu-
ri. es iyo misi humanitaruli, eko-
logiuri da Teologiuri ganaTleba.
amitom am sferoSi is ayo Seumcdari.
exla mivmarTav zviadis momxreebs, im
adamianebs ki ar unda dasdevdeT lan-
ZRviT, vinc mas samarTlianad akriti-
kebs, aramed iyoT im maRali ideale-
bis erTguli, romlis erTgulic iyo
zviad gamsaxurdia. es leqsi aris pa-
tara, xatovnad mocemuli programa.
modiT, yvelani viyoT am idealis er-
Tguli. rom ar davuSvaT giganturi
hesebis mSenebloba saqarTveloSi. me
da zviadi erT wreSi viyaviT, erTad
vocnebobdiT ayvavebul saqarTveloze,
romelic iqneboda walkoti, qalaqebi
savse iqneboda parkebiT, ayvavdeboda
soflis meurneoba da a.S. es aris
sfero romelic aerTianebs yvelas da
aq mainc SevrigdeT, ekologiur sfe-
roSi. Cven xom yvelas gviyvars Cveni
buneba, xom ar gvinda vaJa-fSavela mi-
waSi trialebdes. SeiZleba im mTebi-
sa da mdinareebis ganadgureba rome-
lic Cvens bunebas, Cvens suls qmnis?!
es aris Cveni bedisweris, kulturis
xati. aq vibrZoloT erTad.
proeqtis mixedviT xudonhesi es
aris kaSxlebis kaskadi, ris Sedega-
dac xaiSidan mestiamde wyliT unda
daifaros. amiT savneTs vWriT yels.
Semosulia gaurkveveli warmoSobis
indur-inglisuri kompania, romlis
aSenebulic jer araferia cnobili,
romlis warmomadgenelic aris vinme
wereTeli da xaiSis mosaxleobas eub-
neba, rom unda gaasaxlos iqedan. ai
sadamde daveciT Cven. es aris gmiri
sofeli, romelmac amdeni xani Seinar-
Cuna is adgili. da dRes iq xalxi
aris daterorebuli, mosyiduli, ise
rogorc komunistebis dros, Tumca
maSin ar gauvidaT, elementarulad
sazogadoebriv azrs gauwies angariSi.
...ra daaSava am xalxma, rodemde
unda iyos am xudonhesis safrTxis
qveS?! axla iqmneba ekologiuri sab-
Wo, romelic mouwodebs yvela polit
partiasa da arasamTvrobo organiza-
cias, gamoxaton TavianTi pozicia gi-
ganturi hesebis mSeneblobasTan da-
kavSirebT. ekologiur sabWos momza-
debuli aqvs werili msoflio gare-
mosdamcevli organizaciebisadmi, sa-
dac Cven viTxovT daxmarebas ekolo-
giuri genocidis Tavidan asacileb-
lad. werils gavugzavniT samSeneblo
organizacias, romelic Semosulia,
aseve potenciur investorebs. da ra-
meTu es xdeba qarTveli xalxis ne-
bis winaaRmdeg, rogorc ki es xeli-
sufleba wava, yvela es xelSekrule-
ba gauqmdeba. vecdebiT, rom Zalian
farTo rezonansi mivceT mTeli evro-
pis masStabiT. radgan ukan dasaxevi
gza aRar gvrCeba.
...Tavis droze, roca qarTvelma
xalxma xma misca mwvaneTa partis zu-
rab Jvanias meTaurobiT, man xma misca
TavianTi Svilebis momavals, magram
swored am gundis - miSa maWavariani,
xaTuna gogoriSvili, gia baramiZe, gi-
gi wereTeli- xelSi dasamarda saqar-
Tvelos buneba, mwvaneebma imedebi ver
gaumarTles TavianT amomeCevels. nu-
Tu SeiZleba xelfasisTvis gayido
yvela ideali? erTi parki ver unda
gadaarCino?! adre sxvaTa Soris musi-
rebda azri, zurab Jvania imitom mo-
iSores Tavidan, rom apirebdnen gigan-
turi hesebis proeqtis gatanas, rasac
is arcerT SemTxvevaSi ar dauSveb-
dao. faqtia, roca batoni benduqiZis
mier, romelic albaT ubedurad CaTv-
lis Tavs Tu yvelafris gayidva ver
moaswro am qveyanaSi, pirvelad iqna
wamoyenebuli sakiTxi tyeebis gayid-
vis Sesaxeb, rac niSnavda rom teri-
toriebs asxvisebda, zurab Jvaniam es
proeqti gaaCera. mere roca benduqi-
Zem gamoitana mdinareebis gayidvis
proeqti, es noRaidelma gaaCera. da
exla aRisrules yvela survili. mag-
ram xudonhess bevri gadahyva, es aris
raRac niSnuli, romlis iqiT wasvla
ar SeiZleba. amitom amis daSveba
arafriT ar SeiZleba.
telekompania `maestro~
fragmentebi interviudan
xudonhesi ar unda aSendes!xudonhesi ar unda aSendes!!
xudonhesi ar unda aSendes!!!
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee
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8 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
,,saerTo gazeTis~
stumaria politologi
giorgi volski.
_ batono giorgi, Tqven batoni
biZina ivaniSvilis mrCevelTa sabWos
wevri gaxdiT, male axali sazoga-
doebrivi moZraoba ,,qarTuli ocne-
ba~ mravaljer imedgacruebul Cvens
mosaxleobas Tavs gaacnobs, vin Ca-
udgeba mas saTaveSi, warmoadgens Tu
ara igi Tavis programas?
_ moZraoba ,,qarTuli ocnebis~
wardgena xalxis winaSe male moxde-
ba. Sexvedraze daswrebis msurvelTa
raodenoba Zalian didia, magram yve-
las ver daitevs darbazi. amitom
stumrebis Semosvla mosawvevebiT
gadawyda. mgonia, rom sportis sa-
saxle an stadioni imitom ar dag-
viTmes, rom bevri ukmayofilo dar-
Ces. imedi gvaqvs, rom amas yvela
kargad gaigebs, vinc ver moaxerxebs
darbazSi Sesvlas. moZraobas bato-
ni biZina Caudgeba saTaveSi da igi
Tavad gaacnobs sazogadoebas Tavis
programas, Sexedulebebs, miznebsa
da amocanebs. xalxi marTlac imed-
gacruebulia. xangrZlivi politi-
kuri brZolis Semdeg mosaxleobaSi
winaaRmdegobis muxti mniSvnelovnad
daeca, orientirebi gaifanta. vfiq-
rob, kreatiulad moazrovne Zalebis
gaerTianebaa saWiro. didi mniSvne-
loba aqvs imas, Tu gamaerTianebeli
Zala ras SesTavazebs sazogadoebas.
radikalizmi, areulobebi, quCa _
aravis ar unda, rac mTavaria, qvey-
nisaTvis sazianoa, revoluciuri ka-
taklizmebi gaurkvevel momavals
gviqadis. socialuri foni Zalian
mZimea da mosaxleobis did nawils
gaurkvevlobaSi “gadaSveba” urCevnia
aseT “garkveulobaSi” cxovrebas.
magram Tuki Cvens sazogadoebas in-
teleqtualur resurss da CarTu-
lobas SesTavazeb, daanaxveb qveynis
ganviTarebis realur koncefcias,
vfiqrob, evoluciis imedic gaiRvi-
Zebs da warmatebac garduvalia.
_ xelisufleba yvelafers ake-
Tebs im muxtis gasaneitraleblad,
romelic politikaSi axali Zalis
gamoCenam gamoiwvia. gaaqtiurdnen
uwyebebi, saministroebi, datvirTu-
li sagareo grafikiT, gauTavebeli
prezentaciebiT da piariT cdiloben
xalxis yuradRebis miqcevas.
_ xelisuflebis gaaqtiureba ar
mikvirs, magram ar midis profesio-
naluri dava imaTTan, visac gansxva-
vebuli azri aqvs qveynisTvis saWir-
boroto sakiTxebze _ soflis meur-
neobaze, ekonomikaze, mrewvelobaze,
sagareo politikaze Tu konfliqte-
bis mogvarebis da sxva Temebze. amo-
Cemebuli aqvT Zveli ritorika, ru-
seTis safrTxis ganeitralebis Sesa-
xeb, am ritorikiT muxtaven sazoga-
doebas. Aam “safrTxiT” marTldeba
CamorCena demokratiuli institu-
tebis mSeneblobaSi da dauSvebeli
meTodebi oponentebTan brZolaSi.
swored am ritorikiT SevediT im
fazaSi, rodesac saxelmwifom ga-
fanta sagareo da saSinao urTier-
Tobebis mogvarebis yovelgvari re-
sursi.
_ xelisufleba svams kiTxvas:
rogor da ris fasad apirebs moma-
vali politikuri Zala ruseTTan
politikur-eekonomikuri sakiTxebis
mogvarebas? aris ruseTis sakiTxi
is mTavari, rac Cveni xelisuflebis
krizisis gaRrmavebas uwyobs xels
Sin da gareT Dda ramac SeiZleba
samTavrobo cvlilebebi gamoiwvios,
Tundac arCevnebis gziT?
_ ratomRac fiqroben, rom biZi-
na ivaniSvils ruseTTan urTierTo-
bis daregulireba warmoudgenia da-
savleTTan dapirispirebis xarjze.
kategoriulad araswori midgomaa,
ufro swored, spekulaciaa dasav-
leTis winaSe. biZina ivaniSvils
kargad esmis, rom saerTaSoriso Ta-
namegobrobis gaerTianebuli Zalisx-
mevis gareSe progresi SeuZlebelia.
xelisuflebis mxridan mZime stra-
tegiuli Secdomebia daSvebuli da
axla maTi mxridan kompromisebze
laparaki zedmetia. am Temebze samu-
Saod axali xelisufleba unda mo-
vides! roca konfliqtebis mogvare-
bis sakiTxebSi ministris moadgiled
vmuSaobdi, Cven saerTaSoriso done-
ze oficialurad mxardaWerili sam-
Svidobo gegmiT vmuSaobdiT da Se-
degic saxeze iyo. 2006 wlis mais-
ivnisSi Cven praqtikulad davasru-
leT molaparakebebis struqturebis
reforma, procesebSi saerTaSoriso
politikur da finansur monawileo-
bas Seuqcevadi xasiaTi mieca. afxa-
zeTis xelisuflebis erT-erTi ma-
RalCinosnis TbilisSi Camosvlisas
xeli moewera SeTanxmebas, romelic
gzas gvixsnida intensiuri dialo-
gis reJimSi Sesasvlelad. evrokav-
Siridan erToblivi sareabilitacio
proeqtis ganxorcielebaze vawarmo-
ebdiT molaparakebebs. qarTul-osu-
ri konfliqtis srulmasStabiani
mogvarebis process ki briuselis
saerTaSoriso, marTlac upreceden-
to, konferenciam Cauyara safuZve-
li. ra Tqma unda, ruseTs Tavisi in-
teresebi hqonda, magram dasavleTi
ar ixilavda ruseTis regionidan ga-
panRurebis SesaZleblobas. es ugu-
nuri midgoma mxolod saqarTvelos
umaRlesi rgolis ritorikaSi aisa-
xeboda, razedac araerTxel gagvaf-
rTxila gaeros uSiSroebis sabWom.
swored dasavleTi mogviwodebda
davbrunebodiT civilizebuli mo-
laparakebebis gzas. diplomatiuri
gza, romelsac axla Tvals vadev-
nebT aSS-ruseTis urTierTobaTa
“gadatvirTvis” procesSi erTader-
Ti gamosavalia. sxvaTa Soris, Tbi-
lisSi Camosulma natos generalur-
ma mdivanmac kvlav am mimarTulebiT
svlis aucileblobaze miuTiTa xe-
lisuflebas. magram gvianaa. es da-
savleTSic kargad esmiT. mokled,
rom gamovxato Tu ra moxda, marTe-
buli iqneba aseTi Sedareba – saer-
TaSoriso monawileobiT mimdinare
samSvidobo procesi Secvala vide-
oklipma “kokoiTi fandarast” da
uazro berikaobam, romlis winamZRo-
li sanakoevi bolos “fsb”-s agenti
aRmoCnda. afxazeTis problema ki
“mogvarda” videoklipiT “gamarjoba,
afxazeTo Seni!”, romlis monawile-
ni sabrZolo ordenebiTac ki daa-
jildoves. namdvili komediaa aseTi
tragikuli Sedegebi rom ar migve-
Ro. jobs xelisuflebam TviTon
upasuxos, Tu ratom moxda, rom
cxinvalSi amerikelebis egidiT biz-
nescentris gaxsna araefeqturad Ca-
iTvala. amerikelebi xom mzad iyvnen
erToblivi qarTul-osuri biznesp-
roeqtebi daefinansebinaT. ratom
aris ignorirebuli is faqti, rom
2006 wlis 14 ivliss briuselis
konferenciaze 12 mln. dolari ga-
moiyo im sareabilacio proeqtebis-
Tvis, romelic qarTvelma da osma
specialistebma waradgines 5 Tvis
erToblivi muSaobis Semdeg. xeli-
suflebas am Temaze kamaTi ar sia-
movnebs, aravis eZaxian, visac Wkua
ekiTxeba. swored aseTma damokidebu-
lebam gamoiwvia Cveni polarizacia.
omidan sami wlis SemdegKkondoliza
raisis gulaxdili saubris ukan
uamravi masala devs, es Cvens xeli-
suflebasTan urTierTobis mxolod
erT epizods exeba. sruli pasuxis-
mgeblobiT vacxadeb, rom aSS ofi-
cialurma wreebma araerTxel gag-
vafrTxiles, gvTxoves, rom ar wav-
suliyaviT konfrontaciaze ruseT-
Tan, gveubnebodnen, rom gaaCniaT re-
aluri resursebi ruseTTan saerTo
enis mosaZebnad. gagvafrTxiles, rom
parlamentSi ar dagveyenebina sa-
kiTxi dsT samSvidobo Zalebis gay-
vanis Taobaze. me Tavad gaxldiT am
sakiTxebis amerikel diplomatebTan
ganxilvis monawile. xSir SemTxve-
vaSi, patriotuli lozungiT ara-
patriotuli saqme keTdeba. 2008
wlis 17 ivniss, saqarTveloSi Camo-
vida germaniis sagareo saqmeTa mi-
nistri, rogorc megobarTa jgufis
xelmZRvaneli, romelmac safrange-
Tis, britaneTis, amerikis, germaniis
saxeliT SesTavaza Cvens xelisuf-
lebas gadaudeblad daewyo molapa-
rakebebi Zalis gamouyeneblobis ga-
rantiebis Sesaxeb. Ees ra fonze
xdeba iciT? 2008 wlis ianvarSi
saprezidento arCevnebSi saakaSvili
rom iZleva garantias ,,rusTavi 2~-
is eTerSi, wlis bolos soxumSi
viqnebiTo. anu Tu Sen molaparake-
bebis formatidan gamodixar da ga-
rantiebs iZlevi, es cota saSiSi
gancxadebaa. 2006 wlis ivlisSi ga-
eros uSiSroebis sabWos seriozu-
li kritika daimsaxura saqarTve-
los parlamentis usafrTxoebis ko-
mitetis gancxadebam imis Taobaze,
rom kodoris xeoba is strategiu-
lo adgilia, saidanac soxumamde Se-
iZleba 5 wuTSi moxvde. es ganacxa-
debi saomari ritorikaa. xelisuf-
lebam uari Tqva molaparakebebze,
romlis dawyebac ki Seanelebda da-
Zabulobis process. swored am nabi-
jis gadadgma undoda Cvengan ameri-
kis SeerTebul Statebs. SeiZlebo-
da Tu ara konfliqtis acileba? Se-
iZleboda. migvatoves? rogorc saa-
kaSvilma ganacxada omis mereD- mig-
vatoves, ramac aSS-s saxelmwifo
mdivnis ukiduresi ukmayofileba ga-
moiwvia. ruseTma gaakeTa is, rac Ta-
vis erovnuli usafrTxoebis kon-
cefciaSi uweria. Cveni koncefciis
didi nawili daxurulia, nawili
sadRegrZelos ufro hgavs, vidre
koncefcias. saqarTvelos xelisuf-
leba mxolod ritorikaSi, satale-
levizio programebSi da momitinge-
Ta sastiki darbevebiT gamoxatavs
Tavis winaaRmdegobas.
_ ras fiqroben mimdinare pro-
cesebze afxazebi da osebi?
_ urTierTobebi daxurulia,
magram aris araformaluri da ara-
samTavrobo organizaciebis umniSv-
nelo kavSirebi, saidanac met-nakle-
bad sarwmuno informaciis miReba
SeiZleba. afxazebisa da osebis di-
di nawili ruseTs aRiqvams, ro-
gorc arasasurvel mbrZanebels, mag-
ram maTi Svilebis usafrTxoebis
erTaderT garants, xolo saqarTve-
los, rogorc potenciur agresors.
samwuxarod, dRes Cven ar gagvaCnia
aranairi resursi, rom es midgoma
gavabaTiloT. imis mudmivi gancxade-
ba, rom afxazeTis prezidenti iqne-
ba saqarTvelos vice-prezidenti,
araTu sakmarisi ar aris, aramed da-
cinvadac JRers. Sedegi saxezea _
teritoriebi okupirebulia, Jenevis
molaparakebebi uSedegoa.
_ rogor fiqrobT, msoflio
Tanamegobrobis gaRizianebas Cveni
ruseTTan daulagebeli urTierTo-
bebi iwvevs?
_ xelisufleba cdilobs ru-
sul-qarTuli, rusul-amerikuli
da, saerTod, saerTaSoriso urTi-
erTobebi Sav-TeTr ferebSi warmo-
adginos, an mteri an megobari. Aam
dros diplomatiuri urTierTobebi
mravalplaniania. ruseTs arcTu cu-
di urTierTobebi aqvs evropis qvey-
nebTan, amerikasTan ki pragmatul
molaparakebebs awarmoebs. saqarTve-
lo-ruseTis damokidebulebis arse-
buli reJimi gaRizianebas ara, mag-
ram SeSfoTebas namdvilad iwvevs.
mogvarebeli problema saerTaSori-
so usafrTxoebisaTvis realur ga-
mowvevad aRiqmeba da amas arc ma-
laven. saerTaSoriso Tanamegobro-
ba saqarTvelos xelisuflebisagan
iTxovs winadadebebs, xelisuflebis
winadadeba ki erTaderTia _ wixli
CaazileT ruseTs. CvenTan stumrad
Camosuli aSS-s vice prezidenti
jozef baideni moswavle-axalgazr-
dobis sasaxleSi bavSvebs Sexvda,
bavSvebma sTxoves, dagvabrune Cvens
mSobliur kuTxeSio. man upasuxa,
rom dabruneba maSin iqneba SesaZle-
beli, Tu Tqveni saxelmwifo iqneba
im faseulobebis gamziarebeli, ro-
melic dasavlur civilizacias gaaC-
nia. xelisufleba ki sazogadoebas
STabeWdilebas uqmnis, rom proble-
mebis mogvareba SesaZlebelia, Tu
ruseTs kets urtyamen TavSi, am
dros ketic ara gaqvs da arc ru-
seTi giSvers Tavs. ruseTTan urTi-
erTobis mogvarebis aucileblobaze
marto biZina ivaniSvili ar gvela-
parakeba, amaze mTeli msoflio mig-
viTiTebs.
_ ra molodini unda eqnes sa-
zogadoebas ,,qarTuli ocnebisagan?~
_ qarTul opozicias arasodes
hyolia aseTi Zlieri, pragmatuli,
patrioti lideri. biZina ivaniSvil-
ma gamoTqva survili daafuZnos
moZraoba, romelsac ,,qarTuli oc-
neba~ hqvia. moZraobas aqvs farTo
Tematika, realuri resursi; gadawy-
vetileba, rom samoqalaqo sazoga-
doebas mieces saSualeba monawile-
oba miiRos samomavlo gegmebis Se-
muSavebaSi. SesaniSnavi ideaa. uyu-
radRebod ar darCeba samoqalaqo
sazogadoebis arc erTi fena. es ar
niSnavs imas, rom fulis tomaras
Tavi moexsneba da kardakar Camorig-
deba.
_ momaval arCevnebze ras ity-
viT?
_ arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT er-
Ti istoria minda gagiziaroT. Cemi
didi winapari, qarTveli poeti da
pedagogi grigol volski, ilia Wav-
WavaZis megobari da TanamebrZoli,
wera-kiTxvis gamavrcelebelma sa-
zogadoebam TurqeTidan axladSemo-
erTebul aWaraSi miavlina. 1888
wels baTumSi qalaqis Tavis arCev-
nebi iyo. daviT kldiaSvili aRwers
Tavis mogonebebSi Tu rogor emza-
debodnen arCevnebisTvis. saintere-
soa, rom ruseTs Tavisi kandidati
hyavda, baTumSi ki im dros imperi-
is garnizoni idga. qarTvelebis kan-
didatma gaimarjva. sofrom mgalob-
liSvili werda, rom es grigol
volskis da misi dauRalavi gundis
damsaxurebaa. rasakvirvelia, es am-
bavi siamayiT movyevi, magram mTava-
ri sxva ramea: im dros baTumSi
cxovrobdnen somxebi, berZnebi, ru-
sebi, musulmani qarTvelebi. iliam
da grigol volskim yvelas daanaxes
realoba, rom saqarTvelo sxva eris
warmomadgenelTa mSvidad cxovre-
bis garantoria da arCevnebic maTi
daxmarebiT moiges. dRes, 21-e sau-
kuneSi ratomaa SeuZlebeli samarT-
liani arCevnebis Catareba, Tuki es
Cvenma winaprebma, carizmis mmarTve-
lobis qveS myofma saqarTvelom mo-
axerxa me-19 saukunis baTumSi?!
naTia gogitiZe
ruseTTan urTierTobis mogvarebis aucileblobaze marto biZina ivaniSvili ar gvelaparakeba, amaze mTeli msoflio migviTiTebs
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze
9#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
saakaSvilis yvela gamonaTqvamisa
da frazis zust fsiqologiur Se-
fasebas cereusa da kagebes institu-
tebSi akeTeben. erTi SexedviT, es
Cveni saqmec ar aris, magram, saube-
durod, am gamonaTqvamebis patrons
dRes Cveni prezidenti hqvia. am pre-
zidentis enas ki Zvali iseve ara
aqvs, rogorc kokainiT gaJRenTil
mis tvins xveulebi. “miSas vagoni
nacionalebis matarebelsac” sabo-
lood rom Camoexsna da sadRac mi-
eqaneba. misi zRvargadasuli tyui-
lebidan da zRaprebidanac sCans. rom
ukve ise aibna, rom guSin naTqvami
dRes aRar axsovs. saakaSvilis gra-
matikisa da metyvelebis gasworeba
Sors wagviyvans. araswori qarTu-
li” `saerTo gazeTsa” da mis koreq-
tors rom ar dabraldes, mis gamo-
naTqvamebs, stilis dacviT brWya-
lebSi movitanT. miSas ukve ucxoeT-
Sic aRar usmenen, amitom es “qveynis
bedze zrunviT gaWaRaravebuli ka-
ci” saqarTvelos sofel-sofel, qa-
laq-qalaq dawanwalebs. saxelisuf-
lebo televiziebiT “gaburanebul”
regionis mosaxleobas da yvelas um-
tkicebs “me isev kargi biWi var”
damtoveT, prezidentad Tu ara _
premierad mainco. dadis yinvaSic da
uamindobaSic. Savada aqvs saqme. er-
Ti aseTi “kai biWobis” mtkiceba “sa-
qarTvelo bankis” saTavo ofisis
prezentacia iyo. yvela sisuleles
ar CamovTvliT. mxolod ramodenime-
ze SevCerdebiT. miuxedavad imisa,
rom qarTulma sazogadoebamac,
ucxourmac SesaniSnavad icis, rom
agvistos omi miSam daiwyo da tali-
avinis daskvnas “raisis mogonebebic”
daemata. saakaSvils sxva gza aRar
darCenia da mainc yvelgan da yvelas
ruseTis “urCxulobas” umtkicebs.
komunistebis aSenebuli Senobac,
“msoflio habitatais erT-erT maTa-
var Sedevrad monaTla”. “pirveli
bankirebic svaneTSi yofilan da sa-
qarTveloSi “Senaxvis instituti”,
Turme ZvelTaganve arsebobda”?! qar-
Tvelebic, Tavis msagavsad, solomon
isakiC mejRanuaSvilis STamomavle-
bad miaCnia, Torem “vefxityaosani”
mainc rom eswavla Tavis droze,
ecodineboda, rom qarTvels `Senax-
vis” ki ara, `gacemis instituti”
hqonda.
“faineSnl Taimsis” statiis mi-
xedviT, saqarTvelos banki sam ru-
sul bankTan aris Sedarebulio, gan-
sxvaveba ki is yofila, rom “ “saqar-
Tvelos banki” namdvili banki yofi-
la, romelic jansaRi ekonomikuri
cxovrebis maCveneblebs efuZneba, ma-
Sin roca rusuli kompaniebi efuZne-
bian bunebriv resursebs, magram am
resursebis ukan ar dgas sakmarisi
inteleqtualuri resursebio”. Cio-
ra TaqTaqiSvilis, oCiauris, TorT-
laZis, wiklauris da kirkitaZis
“inteleqtualuri resursis” pat-
rons amisi Tqmis ufleba namdvilad
aqvs?! es is rusuli ekonomika yofi-
la, “romelic 2003 wlis Semdeg
moviSoreT”, magram qarTuli bazari
mainc savsea xelisuflebis mier Se-
motanili rusuli produqciiT. am
bankis saswrafo wesiT gaxsnac xom
mxolod ivaniSvilis “qarTu bank-
Tan” dasapirispireblad dasWirda.
Cvenma ekonomikam Turme “msoflioSi
mimdinare ekonomikur biZgebs gauZ-
lo. swori ganviTarebis mimarTule-
biT midis. es aris ekonomika, rome-
lic ar aris gadaxurebuli. ar
efuZneba korufcias da piramidis
sqemebs”. kargi raa, miSa, regionebSi
gaubedurebul xalxs da Sens monebs
ki “aboleb”, magram Cven rom ar
vboldebiT? swored Seni piradi
ojaxi, Zmebi, deda, meuRlec Tavis
sanaTesavebianad, garemocva romaa am
korufciul piramidaSi CarTuli,
esec xom viciT? ekonomikaSi “aris
Zalian dabali sabiujeto deficiti
da ekonomika, sadac, romelSic aris
valis Zalian dabali Sesabamisoba
erovnul produqtTan”. romel erov-
nul produqts gulisxmobs es sul
mTalad “saxuravdacurebuli” pre-
zidenti, TurqeTis, iranis, CineTis,
sasomxeTis produqciiT gajerebul
qarTul bazars? “ra Tqma unda, Cven
aviReT valebi, magram bevrad meti
gvaqvs erTiani erovnuli produq-
ti”. Cemo mixel, Tu ukve “mi-
tua”(kaxuri qudis daxurvis gamo),
es valebi Cveni Svilebis gasaxdeli
rom gaxdeba da “erTian erovnul
produqtadac” jerjerobiT gaunaT-
lebeli, garyvnili, usamSobloo,
uerovnebo da gadaxrili fsiqikis
axalgazrdobis aRzrda rom aqcieT
_ amasac vxvdebiT. modernizaciis
gegma, umuSevrobis saSualod 10%-
ze gasvla yofila. es ki is 10%-ia,
romelic saxelisuflebo struqtu-
rebSia dasaqmebuli da dRes karg
xelfasebs iReben. danarCeni saqarT-
velo ki umuSevari da mSieria! “mTa-
vari” uaxlesi wlebis ganmavlobaSi
momzadeba-gadamzadeba yofila. risT-
vis da visTvis gadamzadeba? ucxoe-
lebis seqsualuri momsaxureobisT-
vis da mSobliuri enis daviwyebisT-
vis? inglisuri enis swavlis prog-
ramac, pirvel rigSi, dasaqmebis
programa yofila. Cveni ubedurebac
magaSia, rom saqarTveloSi samsaxu-
ris SovnisTvis “Tavari” inglisu-
ris codna gagvixade. Turme “Tu re-
gionis zogierT sxva qveyanas“ “Ca-
vakvirdebiT”, davinaxavT, rom, rode-
sac Cven isini, rogorc Cven 2003
wlamde rogorc nemsze iyvnen Semj-
darni “erTi qveynis” ekonomikaze,
axla Cven “am nemsze aRar vzivarT”.”
samagierod, Cveni prezidentia koka-
inze Semjdari da misi zemoqmedebis
qveS, ra da rogoric moeCveneba,
Cvenc im ferebSi unda davinaxoT.
Tanac rodesac “am qveyanas” (gulis-
xmobs ruseTs) poziciebi Seryevia,
regionis sxva qveynebic mas Cayolia,
“Cven ki, marTalia, 2006 wels didi
dartyma miviReT, magram grZelvadia-
nad viswavleT fexze dadgoma da
welSi gamarTva sakuTari ZalebiT.”
miSa isemc Seni da nacionaluri moZ-
raobis ojaxebi da Zalebi vnaxeT
fexze damdgari da welSi gamarTu-
li, rogori fexze damdgar-gamarTu-
lic saqarTveloa Tqvens xelSi?!
niSandoblivi da simptomaturia,
rom, rogorc misTvis gamouval vi-
TarebaSi sCvevia, miSam cxvirze xe-
lis gasmas axlac mouxSira. “yidis
es cxviri”. axla dgas da saqveynod
amtkicebs ramdeni gaukeTa saqarTve-
los, ra “magaria”, raTa dagvanaxos,
rom eg rom ara, “daviRupebodiT”.
adre, uvargisi opoziciis xelSi,
viRacis motyueba, viRacisTvis ki,
“opoziciac aseTive nagavias” prin-
cipi muSaobda. axla ki rodesac bi-
Zina ivaniSvili gamoCnda, Tavs ik-
lavs, rom yvelas “TvalSi gaeCxi-
ros” da Tavisi “saqmeni sagmironi”
Seaxsenos, magram Zalian gviania.
“erovnuli suliskveTeba” rom gamo-
aCinos, axla sul ilia WavWavaZe
akeria pirze. kaxeTSic ki “dasaxl-
da” venaxiTurT da “zavodobac” ga-
daixada. esao da vazi da qarTuli
miwa miyvarso. rodis Seuyvarda ase,
es qarTuli miwa-wyali da vazi? “ka-
gebes jarSi” rom msaxurebda, Tu
“peterson-belqnafis” (petrosian-
belqanianis somxur firmaSi)? Tur-
me “bevr evrokavSiris qveyanazec win
vyofilvarT wasuli. xalxi Sedis
evrokavSirSi imisTvis, rom evrost-
ruqtura aaSenos. Cven ukve roca Se-
valT evrokavSirSi da es aris WeS-
mariteba, romelzec yvela lapara-
kobs, SevalT im poziciebze, qveyana
iqneba ufro ganviTarebuli, vidre
aqvs poloneTs, litvas, latvias da
amas vaxerxebT Cveni ZalebiT, ra
Tqma unda, donorebis da sxvebis
daxmarebiT. evrobazarze gasavlelad
“produqtiulobis ayvavebac” yofi-
la saWiro. soflis meurneobisa da
ekonomikis dabali produqtiuloba
yvela sferoSi “Zalian cudi ambavi”
yofila, magram amave dros, Zalian
kargi ambavic aris Turme. am abdaub-
da naazrevs mxolod darCiaSvili
Tu gaigebs, romelsac “bevri eTni-
kurad qarTveli “politikurad qar-
Tvelad” ar miaCnia. axla xom gavi-
geT, ratom angrevda da anadgurebda
ekonomikas da sofels, 2000 larad
glexebs vazs ratom aCexinebda?
Turme imitom, rom dabalganviTre-
bulidan ufro meti warmatebebis
miRweva SeiZleba. ase yofila, Cven
ki ar gvcodnia. Cveni “dabalganvi-
Tarebuli azrovnebisTvis” aseTi
“didi sibrZneebi” Cauwvdomelia.
Turme yvelaferSi dabali done imi-
tomaa kargi, rom “misi produqtiu-
lobis gazrda SeiZleba Zalian Cqa-
ra da ra cudma procesebmac ar un-
da iyos msoflioSi, (stili dacu-
lia. “Seni saxeli ra gvaraia” –ase-
Ti frazaa) Cven dabali donidan
movdivarT da amitom mainc gavizr-
debiT.”
“miSas Rameuli bodvebi”, Tu
“aTas erTi Ramis zRaprebi” grZel-
deba. arCevnebamde kidev bevri aseTi
sisulelis mosmena mouwevs saqarT-
velos im mosaxleobas, romelic ra-
Rac sikeTis molodinSi, saakaSvilis
televiziebs mainc misCerebia. miSas-
ve sityvebiT, Cven xom is qveyana
vyofilvarT, bankis “romeli Seno-
bis” simbolodac saakaSvilma gvaq-
cia. Cven xom is qveyana varT, sadac
“benduqiZis oynis”, “promeTes qanda-
kebis”, “miSas pampersis”, “nino da
alis”, “velisapetis” Semdeg, “naci-
onaluri moZraobis erTobis” gamom-
xatvel skulpturul jgufsac ve-
lodiT amden xans. ise hitleris
ukuRma mbrunavi “svastikis” msgav-
sad, orive boloSi saWeebiani “ve-
lisipetic” miSas gamouvali gzis _
arc win da arc ukan wasasvlelis
maCvenebeli SeiZleba gaxdes. “nato-
Si” aRaravin eZaxis, ruseTi “cud
qirurgiul manipulaciebs” uqadis,
saqarTvelos aRar unda. “mituaaa”
ki gaxda, magram saeWvoa, evropaSic
moundes vinmes aseTi! amitomac adga
da Tavi rom ar gadagvaviwyos, “am-
den naamagars gvitovebs”. Tavisi
mmarTvelobis srulyofili gamoxa-
tulebis simbolos gareSe rogor
dagvtovebda? adga da qarTveli
xalxis xarjze marTla am “ojaxaSe-
nebulma” kacma da falosebis, naci-
onalebisTvis “bideebTan asocirebu-
li” Sadrevnebis Semdeg, axla mT-
lad “kvercxebis kompozicia” dadga
baTumis “redison blusTan”. jer es
“blu” (cisferi) da blukuni xom
amaTi sayvareli saqmianobaa. mere
“evropuli xelovnebisa da kultu-
ris” codnis didi gamovlinebac. xe-
lovnebaTmcodneebs, fsiqologebis,
fsiqiatrebisa seqsopaTologebisgan
gansxvavebiT _ amaze pasuxi jer ara
aqvT. arqiteqtor koka amirejibs mi-
aCia, rom es, SesaZloa, avtorisgan
aWaris simbolodac iyos aRqmuli
(aWaruli xaWapuris asociaciiT).
madidan gamomdinare Tu mivudgebiT
_ idea ufro miSas unda ekuTvnodes.
an aWarlemba kvercxebTan asocireba
riT daimsaxures? elza fantocis
`pop-artis Sedevrze~ _ kvercxebis
kompoziciaze mogaxsenebT. ivaniSvi-
lis fulis gasavaliT dainterese-
bul adamianebs, ruslanas Camoyvani-
dan moyolebuli, yinulis moedaniT,
milioniani karuseliT, xulioebisa
da “yavlgasuli momRerlebis” Ca-
moyvanaze daxarjul Tanxebze ratom
ar uCndebaT SekiTxva?
bevrma imtvira Tavi, ras niSnav-
da “es kvercxebze dadebuli flos-
ti”, magram pasuxic amaze, rogorc
sxva danarCenze, isev miSam gasca
“yvarlis tbis” gaxsnisas. tbas ilia
WavWavaZis “siyvaruliT”, “ilias
tba” daarqva. mokled, “miSas zRap-
rebs” Tu davujerebT, ilias moRva-
weoba da Semoqmedeba sul “Tavidan
bolomde gadaubulbulebia”. “Tavari
politikuri mecniereba dRemde Cem-
Tvis modis ilia WavWavaZisgano”.
erTaderTi “qvaTa RaRadisis mecnie-
rebas” ver Cawvda es kaci dRemde?!
vertmfreniT imitom ki ar davfri-
nav, rom gzebs varideb Tavs, aramed
iqedan Cveni dapataravebuli qveyana
ufro kargad sCanso. (am dapatarave-
baSic me arafer SuaSi varo?! _ b.a.)
mokled es dagubebuli wyalsacavi
gavanaTeT, TofuriZe kidev gawmends
da “Tu kargad moiqceviT, wyalsac
CagisxamoTo”. es tba imitom ki ar
gavakeTe, Cems karmidamosTan axlos
romaa da velosipediT wreebi rom
vartyao. (isev wamocda) ara, zafxu-
lis sicxeSi erTad unda “viWyumpa-
laoTo”. vai, Sens saqarTvelos, yva-
relSi saWyumpalaod Tu eqneba miSas
kidev saqme? Semdeg wavida Cveuli
agoniuri frazebi: “rom arc erT
epoqaSi, arc erT dampyoblis (isev
wamocda, rom dampyrobelia) arc er-
Ti mTavrobis, Tu damoukidebeli sa-
qarTvelos patara periodebis dros
araferi auSenebia imdeni, rogorc am
bolo xuTi wlis ganmavlobaSi. (a-
qac “enam gasca”. xuTi wlis Semdeg,
oficialurad, aralegitimurad rom
zis _ Tavad aRiara) quTaiselebsac
wamoayvedra, rom baTumis Semdeg uk-
ve quTaisi xdeba `saparlamento de-
daqalaqi”. awi, elodeT quTaTurebo,
boTlebSi sajdomebze mobmuli kal-
mebis damiznebiT moxalise deputa-
tebs maqaur parlamentSi. imazec
isaubra, rom ilias eWvi ar eparebo-
da saqarTvelos damoukideblobaSio.
Tumca miSa Tvlis, rom qarTvelebs
ratomRac RmerTi uwyrebaT da mo-
nobis, vasalis surviliT, “viRacis
erTi adgilis lokva undaT”. etyo-
ba, aSS-sTvis “am erTi adgilis
lokvas” sxvanairi gemo dahkravs. ai,
amis Semdeg iwyeba yvelaze saintere-
so. “gamituebuli miSiko” ukve Tavs
veRar ikavebs da “kvercxebis saidum-
losac” exdeba farda: “SeiZleba Se-
ni qveyana ise ar gafasebdes da ar
ayavxar kvarcxbekze, rogorc Sen da-
imsaxure”. ar mogesmaT. “kvarcxbe-
kio”. miSas “kvercxbeki” undoda eT-
qva, megobrebo. amitomac gamouvida
“kvarcxbeki”, Torem qarTuli enis
arcodna aq arafer SuaSia. “kvarcx-
bekze” sdomebia kacs asvla neronisa
da kaligulasaviT. Tavisi personis
“kvarcxbeks” ase Riad ver daidgam-
da, adga da `kvecxbeki~ _ `naciona-
luri moZraoba da zed dadebuli
flostiT” daidga kacma. macxovris
aRdgomasTan da saaRdgomo kvercxeb-
Tan rom ara gvaqvs saqme, albaT, mix-
vdebodiT. am e.w. skulpturiT Tavi-
si garemocvis realuri saxec gamo-
aCina amiT da `kvecxbekzec” avida. ra
mniSvneloba aqvs axla, `visi flos-
ti” da `Cvari” gerqmeva, aSS-s, ru-
seTis Tu `ceerus pagonebiani co-
lis”? Cven ki Tavs vimtvrevT aq,
`aWaruli xaWapuria~ es Tu kidev
rame sxva. `kvercxbekia~, batonebo,
miSas `kvecxbeki~. `nacionalur Kkve-
cxebs~ ki, is gamousadegari `fl-
osti~ adevs, romelsac `naxmari Ci-
nuri flostiviT~ gadaagdebs male
qarTveli xalxi.
baia amaSukeli
`darispanis gasaWiri~ anu miSasa da `nacebis~ kvercxbekiaWaris `redison blus~ win
10 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
anekdoti gavrcelda, bokeri-
am hkiTxa saakaSvils: _ inglis-
Si, konferenciaze TargamaZes
(giorgi) da gamyreliZes gaiyo-
leb Tu qardava-TargamaZeso? sa-
akaSvilma upasuxa: _ ara, qarda-
va ar minda, Cems am nacrisfer
pijaks gamyreliZe ufro uxde-
bao.
davinteresdi, es, Cvens pre-
zidentad wodebuli kaci, mudam
raRac konferenciaze dadis, am-
jerad razea saubari-Tqo, yu-
radReba ar gamimaxvilebia Tanm-
xleb pirebze. mgoni, logikuri-
caa, _ saakaSvili TargamaZesTan
erTad gamyreliZes aidevnebda
Tu qardavas, an samives erTad,
ra didi ambavi da gamosadevnebe-
lia, mainc kudad hyavs mobmuli
samive (da ara mxolod isini),
TavTavianTi politikuri Semad-
genlobiT da londonSic Tu ga-
aseirna, ra moxda. mipasuxes,
msoflio demokratebis saerTa-
Soriso kavSiris yrilobazea
saubario, sadac sityviT unda
gamosuliyo Turme saakaSvili.
gavocdi, demokra-tiis mteri miSa ra sa-xis kavSirSi iyo demok-ratebis msoflio yri-lobasTan, ver mivxvdi.Cemi TanamosaubreiqiT gaocda, am Sekre-baze 45 ZiriTadi daasocirebuli wevriamTeli msofliodan,maT Sorisaa `naciona-luri moZraobac~, aricio?
mainc ver davioke interesi,
CaveZie, im ucnauri Sekrebis Tu
yrilobis wevrebi, sakuTar po-
litikur partiebs warmoadgenen
Tu TavianT qveynebs-meTqi. ra vi-
ci me, uyure da sxva ramiT `i-
siamovne,~ raSi gainteresebs
sxvisi ambavi, Cveni gvaqvs sag-
lovio, arada, TviTon sad naxa
es ambavi da romel ricxvSi, ve-
rafriT gaixsena.
vinc eZebs, is poulobso,
marTali yofila, _ vipove da ra
vipove, saakaSvilis gverdze gu-
gulebiviT mimsxdari giorgi
TargamaZe da daviT gamyreliZe.
ise xmaSewyobilad ukravdnen
taSs es Cveni `demokrati ymaw-
vilebi,~ drouli iqneboda saa-
kaSvils erTi kargi davluri
Camoevlo SeZaxiliT `Tqven ge-
nacvaleT biWebooo!~
rogorc Cans, gitara da Cqa-
ri taSi demokratTa Sekrebis
(Tu yrilobis) formatSi ar
jdeboda, anda, qarTuli demok-
ratiisgan gansxvavebiT, araseri-
ozulad uyureben amgvar serio-
zul sakiTxebs. genacvaT, saakaS-
vili rom demokratiaze saubriT
pirs aiqafebda, saqarTvelos de-
mokratiulobis xarisxiT aRfr-
Tovanebul Sekrebis yvela
wevrs, sakuTari qveynis Tu to-
mobrivi gaerTianebis TiTo sa-
valdebulo sakulto cekva ki
unda Seesrulebina...
erTi ram verafriT gavige
verc me da verc bevrma sxvam, es
oxeri qarTuli demokratia qar-
TvelebisTvis uxilavi formiT
ratom viTardeba, mxolod ra-
Rac ucxouri organizaciebi ra-
tom xedaven mas?
javriSvilis klinikas ras
verCi, magram ki unda daatydes
Tavs saqarTvelos mosaxleobis
TiTqmis mTeli da im `Tvalxi-
luli~ ucxoelebis sruli Se-
madgenloba, laTinurad oku-
listad da berZnulad ofTal-
mologebad wodebul Tvalis
eqimebs, an Cven agvadRlizon
Tvalebidan libri, an ucxoe-
lebs. msoflio `demokratebis~
samkurnalod otiatrebic gvWi-
rdeba da bare yvela ganxris
eqimi, magram Cemi Tanamosaubris
Tqmisa ar iyos, jer Cveni Tavi
gvaqvs samkurnaloc da saglo-
vic. aba, opozicionerebad wode-
buli `ymawvilkacebi~ rom ukve
ase aSkarad miexutebian meCeCze
Segdebul Zirgamompali xomal-
dis Casvril kapitans, saglovi
ar aris? ras niSnavs es, erTgu-
lebas umtkicebs, vTqvaT, samg-
zis (abaSiZe, patarkaciSvili,
saqarTvelos mosaxleoba) Ra-
latSSi eWvmitanili giorgi
TargamaZe erTgulebas am SemTx-
vevaSi saakaSvils, saqarTvelos
mravalgzis RalatSi eWvmita-
nil pirs?
gamyreliZe ra, mudam baxma-
ros niaviviT uberavs, xan aqedan
miudgeba sanukvar ocnebas, rome-
lic cxadia, qarTuli ocneba ar
aris, xan iqidan. aba, biWo?! di-
lidan dilamde mas ar sZinavs
da ara sruliad saqarTvelos
imis fiqrSi, rodis ixilavs gam-
yreliZes saqarTvelos prezi-
dentad Tu ara, saqarTvelos
parlamentis Tavmjdomared ma-
inc!...
vuyurebdi msofl-io demokratebis Sek-rebis Canawers da vf-iqrobdi, netav, rodin-deli Canaweria, saqar-Tvelos prezidenti ed-uard SevardnaZe romiyo da es subieqtebi,erTi, `mewarme da eqi-mi~, meore _ TviT Se-vardnaZis, mesame ki as-lan abaSiZis karis bi-
Wi-Tqo? _ qarTveli`delegatebis~ samossdavakvirdi da ara, ra-Rac axalmodurebi em-osaT.
kargi, batono, cota xnis
win wasulan, magram vfiqrobdi,
vfiqrobdi da verafriT movifiq-
re raime Wkvianuri, iseTi, am sa-
mi `demokratis~ londonur de-
mokratiul gulavs rom axsnida.
ara, ki, movifiqre, magaliTad,
is gamaxsenda, raRac fulze rom
iyo saubari, tigran guloianis
sazomiT `milion sCemtoze~, mag-
ram is milioni da kidev `sCem-
to~ sxvebzec iyo naTqvami da
isinic rom ar aidevna saakaS-
vilma, sxva mizezsac davuwye
Zebna.
eha, biZina ivaniSvi-lis Ria werili gamax-senda, ase vTqvaT, qve-Tavi `visTan ver viTa-namSromleb?~ da Riad-ve gacemuli pasuxi _fsevdoopoziciur pa-rtiebTan, romlebicxelisuflebasTan fa-rul garigebasa da kav-SirSi arian, romelTamxrebzec dgas saakaS-vili, rameTu es Zalebiuqmnian saakaSvilisreJims demokratiul-obis fons danarCenimsoflios winaSeo.
ui! _ msoflio demokratebis
saerTaSoriso Sekrebaze ori
opoziciuri partiis lideri un-
da waelala, maT gverdiT unda
warmdgariyo saakaSvili, aba, ta-
Siskvrisgan xelebgadayvlefili
`vaJkacebis~ nacvlad misi reJi-
mis mier Svilebdaxocil mamebs
xom ar waiyvanda gakoWilebs da
piramokerilebs...
isev zemoT naxsenebi anek-
dots unda mivubrunde, baCuki
qardavas ambavi damrCa bundova-
ni, ratom moxvda anekdotSi. ui!
ivaniSvilma xom Tqva, ar viTa-
namSromleb `qristian-demokra-
tebTan~, `axal memarjveneebTan~,
`edp-sTan~ da a. S da daamata,
xelisuflebis dakveTas asru-
leben: daviT gamyreliZe, baCuki
qardava da a.S xolo giorgi
TargamaZis politikuri saqmia-
noba uamrav saeWvo moments Sei-
cavs, dawyebuli aslan abaSiZes-
Tan misi TanamSromlobiT, gagr-
Zelebuli badri patarkaciSvi-
lis mimarT mis mier Cadenili
RalatiT da damTavrebuli imiT,
rom Ralatis safasurad xeli-
suflebam TargamaZes partia Se-
uqmna, daufinansa da gayalbebis
gziT parlamentSi Seiyvanao...
baCuki qardavas ambavi, mego-
na, gavarkvie, tkbilad dameZine-
ba amaRam-meTqi, vifiqre, magram
ver movisvene, vwrialebdi mainc.
Turme ratom, mere gamoirkva _
saakaSvilisTvis rCevas amzadeb-
da, maqsimalurad daicavi dis-
tancia ruseTTan da svla gaag-
rZele dasavleTiskeno. es ra
rCeva iyo, rame Seatyo netav `i-
seTi~, Tu Suri iZia `buTxuzam~
gamyreliZe rom arCia saakaSvil-
ma salondonod da sakbilo gad-
mogvigdo?
erTi ram kidev Tqva fsevdo-
opoziciur partiebTan dakavSi-
rebiT batonma ivaniSvilma, Ca-
moTvlil adamianebTan (CamonaT-
vals Tqven gadaxedeT mkiTxve-
lo) ver viTanamSromleb, magram
ar gamovricxav, am `fsevdoebis~
partiebis zogierT wevrTan ur-
TierTobas, Tu isini sakuTari
warsulis revizias SeZlebeno.
hoo, vfiqrob, anekdotis perso-
naJebis saqme wasulia, erTmane-
Tis miyolebiT, sul bRuja-bRu-
jad gaexikebian partiebidan re-
viziagavlili wevrebi...
barem axla erTic vTqvaT, vi-
kiTxoT da movaTavoT, _ batoni
ivaniSvilis politikur aspa-
rezze gamoCenisTanave calkeu-
li, politikosebad wodebuli
pirebi rom ayvirdnen, ivaniSvi-
li xelisuflebas afinansebdao,
es TviT damfinansebelma sakuTa-
ri piriT araerTxel gaimeora
da gana ar icoda vis afinanseb-
da TviT xelisufleba misi ga-
Rebuli fuliT? _ icoda. hoo-
da, gamodis, axlac icis bevri
ram da ar ambobs bolomde...
jer...
nisliani albionis ambavi
amowurulad CavTvale da vifiq-
re, axla mainc dameZineba tkbi-
lad-meTqi, magram kaci bWobda,
RmerTi icinodao `axali ZaliT
axali saqarTvelosTvis!~ _ `a-
xali memarjveneebi~, _ Camesma
yurSi.
vin xarT is axali Za-la, romel axal saqar-Tveloze melaparake-biT, an Zvelad raRa Za-la gqondaT da saer-Tod, ra uZlureba gWi-rT aseTi, rom aTi we-lia sxvisi jibis wur-belad xarT qceuli!
mTeli am politJri-amulis fonze Targama-Ze (giorgi) saeWvoddums. netav, ras undaniSnavdes es, Tavisebu-ri naxtomisaTvis xomar emzadeba patara, ma-gram mainc didi eSmaku-na?
`axali ZaliT axali saqarT-
velosTvis!~ _ mainc trialebs
arafrismTqmeli sareklamo rgo-
li saqarTvelos prezidentis
nacrifer pijakTan misadagebuli
nacriferi lideris fotoebiT.
am kacs saiubileo yriloba hqo-
nia, Tan ra nomriT, didi 5-ianiT
gasamarTi da prezidents mis
`Sopingebze~ uzrunia, Cven ki,
sul sxva ram gvegona. aba?! am
kacs, Tavisi partiis 10 wlis
muSaoba hqonia Sesafasebeli da
10 wlis win rom pijaki ecva,
imiT xom ar iyelyelavebda amde-
ni xalxis winaSe.
rogorc Sevatye, kargad ver
uvaWria daviTs, agvistos omis
acileba SeiZleboda, magram saa-
kaSvilis xelisuflebis ugunu-
ri politikiT Tavi vtuceT pir-
dapir rusul xafangSio., _ da-
axeTqa. mere, _ es ki aseao, mag-
ram mTlad asec ar ariso, _ er-
Ti-ori `paezdkisTvis~ is toti
ar moWra, romelzec Ramuris
Sesaferisad hkidia da ah, imas
ver gaviziareb, rom omi amaT da-
iwyeso. (ver moiSora aqeT-iqioT
qanaobis mavne Cveva am kacma) me-
re, iseTebi moayola, megona uk-
ve prezidenti iyo da samoqmedo
gegmas kiTxulobda. bolos, da-
ginebismagvari myari piroba da-
do, Tu Cems partias am bolo
cdaze ver davabruneb parlamen-
tSi, gadavdgebi partiis Tavmj-
domareobidano.
isev Zveleburad, isev qvemZ-
romulad! _ televizorsRa miva-
Zaxe da ZilSi bokeria mezmana,
erTgvarad Sefiqrianebuli Can-
da...
maia WeliZe
axali ZaliT axalisaqarTvelosTvis anu
isev Zveleburad, isev qvemZromulad
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze
11saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
yvelas gvaxsovs pirveli pres-
konferencia, romelic ivaniSvilma
Tavis sasaxleSi gamarTa. Cemi ko-
legebis qcevasa da televiziebis
unamusobaze arafers vambob, saqvey-
nodaa cnobili. ufro saintereso
albaT, isaa, ra xdeboda havlabar-
sa Sina. rogorc boroti xmebi am-
boben, batonma prezidentma, romel-
sac trankvilizatorebmac veRar
uSveles, simwrisagan sakuTar de-
das xeli mostexa, garemocvas ga-
dautrixina pirdapiri da iribi ga-
gebiT, ramdenime halstuxi gaReWa
da dRes Tu ukangasakravi xalaTi
ar acvia, albaT, kokainis damsaxu-
rebaa. ar vici, maSindeli boRmis
Sedegia sofo niJaraZe kargad naJe-
Ji rom wevs TurqeTis klinikaSi
da vera qobalia kanadaSi gasaqce-
vad emzadeba, Tu kidev sxva codve-
bis Semswrenic gaxldnen; yovel
SemTxvevaSi, batoni mixeilisagan
aliyuri nacebs bevrjer aqvT nage-
mi. kargad gvaxsovs tvinSeryeuli
banZelaZe, fexmotexili baramiZe,
maSinac saguldagulod nagvemi qo-
balia. ufro Zvel ambebs aRar ga-
vixseneb, maSin socialuri qselebi
ase farTomastabiani ar iyo da
xalxi Wors ZiriTadad, verbalu-
rad uziarebda erTmaneTs, rogorc
aseve boroti enebi sisinebdnen,
premieric miSas mier nasrolma mZi-
me saferflem Seiwirao. hoda, aba,
ukve xmarebaSi Semdgari ministri
an momRerali ra saxsenebelia.
ivaniSvilis preskonferenciam
ki Turme mTlad SeSala sacodavi.
magram xom gagigiaT, dro mkurna-
liao da miSas pirvelma eiforiam
gaura, amasTan, xan TviTon gafrin-
gaafrina, xan stumrianobac daemTx-
va da cota Cawynarda.
meore preskonferenciam, rome-
lic regionuli mediisaTvis gai-
marTa, gacilebiT mSvidad Caiara.
yovel SemTxvevaSi, mikrofonisTvis
Tav-piri aravis daumtvrevia da
arc pingvin-beRurebs daukavebiaT
esoden Zvirfasi saeTero dro. da
rac mTavaria, im beRurasaviT ar
gaufrenia Tavad prezidents.
ramdenadac havlabridan ustari
movida, miSa „sofleli“ Jurnalis-
tebisaTvis gamarTul Sexvedras
SedarebiT mSvidad Sexvda. samagie-
rod, is rac realur samyaroSi ver
amoanTxies nacebma gadatexili ki-
durebis saxiT, virtualSi prezi-
dentis Sadrevansac ajobes. soci-
alur qselebs amerikuli peplebi-
viT Seesivnen gaurkveveli profi-
lis eqaunTebi da wamovida, magram
ra wamovida, braldebebis „niaRva-
ri“ - ivaniSvili - ruseTis agenti,
gamyidveli, lebedis damfinansebe-
li da isev Tavidan... meti verafe-
ri Tqves, cota axlos mainc rom
yofiliyo simarTlesTan. xolo am
sam braldebas maSinve uqarwyleb-
dnen sapirispiro azris mqone iuze-
rebi damajerebeli argumentebiT.
mixvdnen ra, rom maTi komentarebi
xalxs ukve sasacilodac aRara
hyofnida, Tanac vaSaZe-benduqiZis
saxelebmac bevrjer gaiJRera, mere
ukve uwmawur ginebaze gadavidnen,
rogorc Tavad biZina ivaniSvilis,
ise misi ojaxis wevrebis mimarT.
gegoneba, rom Seagineben amiT an sa-
xels gautexen an Tavs, magram enas
ifxandnen. an sxva ra unda gaake-
Ton, logika da ganaTleba xels ar
uwyobT, rom seriozuli kontrar-
gumentebi Seagebon, namusi kidev -
rom gaCumdnen. Tanac davaleba ze-
modan modioda da isev enis fxana
sjobda, miSasgan gverdebis aqavebas.
rogorc Semdeg erT-erT forumze
amovikiTxe „ bilwsityvobiT mosa-
ubre, saerTodac da miT ufro sa-
jaro sivrceSi, Tavis umweobas
adasturebs. qarTul tradiciuli
zneoba-eTikisagan gandgoma cidamt-
kavlobis (sulxan-saba) utyuari
niSania!“
Tavidan marTla gavkvirdi, ne-
tav, amdeni momxre kidev Tu dar-
Ca saakaSvils am qveyanaSi-Tqo. mag-
ram, rogorc mere gairkva, Turme
„ivaniSvilis meore preskonferen-
cias xelisufleba gacilebiT `mom-
zadebuli~ Sexvda. 15.00 saaTidan
17.00-saaTamde socialur qsel fa-cebook-Si preskonferenciis pirda-piri translirebisas biZina ivaniS-
vilis oficialur gverdze (BidzinaIvanishvili Official), ganxorcielda
internet Seteva. SetevaSi monawi-
lobda 32 „saakaSvilis kloni“ da
prototipis msgavsad argumentire-
buli reaqciis nacvlad iyenebda
aranormatiul leqsikas. biZina iva-
niSvilis preskonferencias saakaS-
vilis klonebma saqarTvelos dRe-
vandeli prezidentisTvis damaxasi-
aTebeli leqsikiT upasuxes.
Bidzina Ivanishvili Official gverdis
komentarebis ganyofileba gaivso
lanZRva-ginebiT da uwmawuri gamo-
naTqvamebiT rogorc Tavad biZina
ivaniSvilis, ise misi ojxis wevre-
bis misamarTiT. xelisuflebis
propagandistuli devizi-`dasaqmdi
da daasaqme~! am SemTxvevaSi gan-
xorcielebulad SeiZleba CaiTva-
los _ riTic dasaqmda saakaSvili,
imiTve daasaqma Tavisi klonebi.
gvinda imedi gavucruoT, rogorc
saakaSvilis kiberklonebs, aseve
Tavad prezidents. Tqvenma erTob-
livma ginebanarevma leqsikam daa-
dastura Tqveni ususuroba. gineba,
garda imisa rom avlens adamianis
amoralobas, aseve mianiSnebs mis
sisusteze argumentebSi.“
erT-erTma momxmarebelma ar da-
izara da gaSifra es kiberklonebi,
romlebic ase styvakazmuloben iva-
niSvilis kedelze. rogorc zemoT
aRvniSneT, isini gaWrili vaSlebi-
viT gvanan erTmaneTs, radgan erTi
adamianis uniWo fantaziis nayofni
arian:
„yvelam SeamCnia albaT, biZina
ivaniSvilis feisbuqis oficialur
saitze momravlebuli trolebi,
hoda, am TemaSi movaxdine trole-
bis identificireba (lustracia)
usaqmurobis xarjze
maS ase:
troli #1.
Nika Mumladzehttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100003160512214ar yavs arcerTi megobari. pro-
fili axalia, postavs, ZiriTadad,
biZinas ivaniSvilis ofiacialur
gverdze.
suraTi ar aris.
ekuTvnis vinme manfreds germa-
niidan, kerZod:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mo-bilhomme/285907111/
troli #2.
Nikoloz Maisuradzehttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...4393&sk=friendsprofili axalia, erTaderTi
suraTiT da isic misi ar aris. pos-
tavs ZiriTadad, ivaniSvilis ofi-
acialur gverdze. iyenebs uwmawur
leqsikas. hyavs erTaderTi megobari
vinme Guga kakulia, kakuliac SemCne-
ulia trolingSi(dawvrilebiTi in-
formacia qvemoT).
troli #3
Guga Kakuliahttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...8864977&sk=walltroli #4.
Archi Tecthttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...2583245&sk=wallaqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze, ar yavs megobrebi,
profili axali daregistirirebu-
li. profilis suraTs Tavisad asa-
Rebs sinadvileSi ki ekuTvnis vinme
Gabriela Amorim.
aRebulia flirkidan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gin-gergirl/16...in/photostream/
troli #5.
Bacho Maisuradzehttp://www.facebook.com/me-
dia/set/?set=a.1...38974504&type=1aqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze, profili axali da-
registirirebulia, megobrebSi
hyavs sxva trolingSi SemCneuli
uzerebic. mag. troli #1. NikaMumladze.
profilis suraTs Tavisad asa-
Rebs sinadvileSi ki ekuTvnis vinme
vaxo cincaZes:
http://www.face.ge/users/vaxo538troli #6.
Vaxtang Robaqidzehttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...6737764&sk=wallaqtiurobs, ZiriTadad, ivaniS-
vilis gverdze (an sxva anti-biZi-
nur gverdebze), profili axali
daregistirirebulia (Tu ar vcde-
bi, ramdenime saaTis).
ar hyavs megobrebi da ar udevs
sakuTari foto.
troli #7.
Miriani Santeladzeaqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze(iyenebs uwmawur leq-
sikas) profili axali daregisti-
rirebulia.
ar iyenebs sakuTar foto-su-
raTs. profili rom realurad
warmoeCina, erT dReSi daumegobr-
da 21 “random” adamians:
Miriani damegobrda Keti Oniani-Tan da 3 sxva adamianTan.
bolo aqtivoba
Miriani damegobrda Tekle Kala-ndadze-Tan da 8 sxva adamiansTan.
Miriani damegobrda Gvanca Tski-tishvili-Tan da 7 sxva adamianTan.
Miriani -m(a) Secvala profilis
suraTi.”
troli #8.
Kusuna Kusunevnahttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...6841774&sk=wallaqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze, profili axali da-
registirirebulia.
hyavs 56 megobari, yvela maTga-
ni damatebulia or sam dReSi.
profilis suraTs Tavisad asa-
Rebs. sinadvileSi ki ekuTvnis vin-
me Gabriela Amoris. (iseve rogorc
troli #4.)
aRebulia flirkidan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gin-gergirl/14...in/photostream/
troli #9.
Giorgi Jiqidzehttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...5803470&sk=wallaqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze, profili axalia
Tumca jer kidev oqtomberSi dare-
gistrirda. ar iyenebs sakuTar su-
raTs. yavs 126 megobari, ZiriTadad
kerZo firmebi, araoficialuri
gverdebi da random uzerebi.
troli #10.
Ucha Gociridzehttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100003133551985aqtiurobs mxolod ivaniSvi-
lis gverdze, profili axalia. iye-
nebs vinme nika ergemliZis suraTs:
http://www.facebook.com/profi-le.php?id=100002639165085
arsebobs aseve erTi saintereso
garemoeba, yvela troli BERA-s
usmens.
nu, detalurad aRar Camovwer
da qvemoT kidev mogwvdiT arasrul
sias savaraudo trolebisa.(savara-
udo imitom, rom ar gadamimowmebia
ise kargad, rogorc pirveli 10)
http://www.facebook.com/profi-le.php?id=100...5551809&sk=wall
http://www.facebook.com/profi-le.php?id=100...8083984&sk=wall
http://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...8556348&sk=wallhttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100003139791572http://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100...8268190&sk=wallhttp://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100003140994849http://www.facebook.com/profi-
le.php?id=100003162137523 da a.S.
P.S. amaT imedzea nac, moZrao-
ba?! normalurad mainc SeeniRbaT“.
mere mogvianebiT isic amovi-
kiTxe, rom Tavad baCo axalaia
xelmZRvanelobs am kiberoperacias
da saerTod, ivaniSvilis winaaRm-
deg warmoebul kampanias da imdena-
daa dakavebuli, rom stumrebis mi-
saRebadac ar scalia. magram, ro-
gorc yvela sxva, esec warumateb-
lad ganaxorciela Cvenma xelisuf-
lebam. maT sityviT ki ara, iaraRiT
da muStiT SeuZliaT mxolod mo-
winaaRmdegis damarcxeba. polemika-
Si ki muSti ar Wris. xolo is
uniWo 32 momxmarebeli, romelic
sruliad SesaZlebelia sul sami
kaci yofiliyo qartexilis mere
damdgar aminds ver cvlis. kargad
gavixsenoT, Cven TviTon ramdenjer
gvaqvs gaxsnili erTi da igive
qselSi gverdi, Tundac imitom rom
saCuqrebi gavugzavnoT fermaSi sa-
kuTar Tavs da bevri mezobeli
gvyavdes. albaT sami cali „mozgi“
ugulavas awyobil kompiuterebTan,
Tavs sulTamxuTaviviT dastria-
lebda baCo-grozni da sakuTar men-
talitets aSearebda. Tumca sul
tyuilad!
ivaniSvilis oficialur gverdze
rom CauvardaT kovzi nacarSi, axla
„eSmakoba“ ixmares da Tavad Seqmnes
gverdebi biZina ivaniSvilis saxelze,
sadac aTasgvar sibinZures da Tavi-
anT apologetebs uyrian Tavs, Tum-
ca es erTmaneTisgan, mgoni, arc gan-
sxvavdeba. saakaSvilis nasufraliT
maZRrebs, iumoric prezidentisgan
usesxebiaT da qirqiliT iqarwyleben
politikur agonias. Tumca amas
iumors mTald ver davarqmevT. Teme-
bi mravalferovani namdvilad araa,
aqac ruseTumebasa da uangarod gawe-
ul qvelmoqmedebaze hyvedrian iva-
niSvils. magram gana ramdenjer Se-
atrialeb erTsa da imaves, amitom
isev bilwistyvaobas iSvelieben da
Tavad batoni biZinas garda opozici-
urad ganwyobil sazogadoebasac ix-
senieben sxvadasxva brunvaSi. Cems
mkiTxvels pativs vcem da maT leq-
sikur marags aq ar gamovamzeureb,
Torem naxavdiT ra margalitebi
scvivaT sainformacio Rrudan. kidev
kargi, prezidentma kompiuteris
kursebi mainc gaatara ufasod am
xalxs, Torem nacmo rom kudiT qvas
isvris Tavis prezidentianad, mere
ra unda akeTon, viRas endomeba maTi
daunaoWebeli tvini da wabilwuli
leqsika. ginebaze Tu midga saqme, Ce-
mi mezobeli surena sam enaze uSec-
domod aSenebs sarTulebs.
da bolos radgan dRevandeli
Cemi werili socialur qselebSi
warmoebul oms Seexeboda, iqve
amokiTxuli sityvebiT minda davas-
rulo: “rac ufro axlovdeba 25
noemberi, miT ufro mwvave da aqti-
uri iqneba Tqveni Semoteva yvela-
nairi formiT, magram araferi gamo-
givaT. saqarTvelos mosaxleoba ga-
naxlebis molodinSia, warmodgenac
ki ar gaqvT, ra mxardaWera aqvs bi-
Zinas mosaxleobisgan. ̀ qarTuli oc-
neba” ganxorcielebadi ocnebaaa,
romelmac frTebi ukve gaSala, mas
veravin da veraferi SeaCerebs.“
nodar mamisaSvili
saakaSvilis 32 kloni da kiberSeteva biZina ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg
12 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
`saerTo gazeTis~ stumaria
msaxiobi soso jaWvliani.
_ batono soso, xudonhesis
mSenebloba svaneTs did safr-
Txes uqmnis, ra xdeba, ratom ar
aqvs am ambavs gamoxmaureba sva-
nebisgan, qarTveli sazogadoe-
bisgan? ra undaT, svaneTis da-
Rupva aqvT gadawyvetili?
soso jaWvliani: _ kar-gad vxvdebi, ratomac undaT xu-
donhesis mSenebloba. axla wia-
Riseuli sim-
didre ainte-
resebT. xe-
tye xom ga-
m o z i d e s ,
magram iq
oqroc aris,
volframic,
dariSxanic,
a r a -
da, iciT, dariSxani oqroze Zvi-
ria. es iseTi sakiTxia, razec
bolos da bolos xalxma xma
unda amoiRos.
axla naxeT, ra veragulad
aris Temebi Semogdebuli. sagan-
Zurze gadaitanes viTom xalxis
yuradReba. dRes Sevxvdi sva-
nebs, SevikribeT. vuTxari: sagan-
Zuri kargia, magram gaixseneT,
ra moxda girgvlianebTan, afra-
siZeebTan, calanebTan, nora kvi-
ciani cixeSi zis, bolos da bo-
los, Cven Tu gavwydebiT, es sa-
ganZuri sxvas darCeba.
me erTi Cveulebrivi adamia-
ni var, am qveynis Svili, magram
roca damiWires da simarTlis
Tqmis gamo viyavi dapatimrebu-
li, vSimSilobdi, gamosuliyo
vinme, eTqva, rom ase da ase xde-
ba. es ubralo saqme ar gaakeTe
da erovnul saganZurs daicav?
oriode wlis win organiza-
cia `Sumerma~ aqcia moawyo eko-
nomikis saministrosTan, Camovi-
da xalxi zemo da qvemo svane-
Tidan, aqciis mere miTxres _
modi, soso, `kavkasiaze~ mivi-
deT. wamodiT aTamde kaci, vinc
televiziaSi ilaparakebT da wa-
videT-meTqi. davureke aqubardi-
as. mpasuxobs: soso, dRes ara.
maSin xval-meTqi, veubnebi, ara
xvalac ver moxerxdeba, maSin
Cems gareSe movlen-meTqi, vaime,
arao, _ ikivla aqum. davanebe
Tavi raRacis gamo SeSinebul
aqubardias da CemTvis vfiqrob:
axla rom gamovide da aqubardi-
aze vTqva, rasac vfiqrob, ity-
vian: ra Seawuxa guli jaWvli-
anma, aravin ar moswons?!
davamSvide svanebi, gavuSvi
ukan. gavida, mgoni, erTi weli
da iq marTlmadidebeli biWebi
daapatimres. ar vlaparakob, es
iyo marTali Tu is. faqts aR-
vniSnav, xom xvdebiT, ras vam-
bob? magram, ra aris, iciT?
tyis sakiTxze aqubardia yvelas
alaparakebda, svanebis garda.
svanebi pirdapiri xalxia, jer
amaTi ganeitraleba iyo saWiro,
sxvas SedarebiT iolad moevle-
boda.
eWviani ar var, batono, jaW-
vliani var, magram bevr rameSi
mepareba eWvi.
_ eWviani rom iyoT, raSi
SegeparebodaT eWvi?
_ ai, magaliTad, xalxo, ga-
moCnda es RvTisnieri kaci, mar-
to samebis aSeneba eyofa mis
jiSs da modgmas, aTasobiT ga-
Wirvebuls da avad-
myofs daexmara,
magram es kaci
rom gamoCn-
d a ,
`naZiral-trestidan~ wamovida
aseTi niaRvari: ra unda poli-
tikaSi, Cven magaze sanTlebs
vanTebdiT, es kidev politikaSi
modis. gagiJdebi kaci. Tan ise-
Ti adamianebi amboben amas, 5000
da 6000 rom Rebulobdnen iva-
niSvilisgan. Tu asea da, rusu-
li warmoSobis fulad miaCniaT
es Tanxa, gamovidnen da Tqvan
vaJkacurad: veRar davabrunebT,
magram awi aRar gvinda, batono,
ivaniSvilis fulio.
mokled, Semovida es adamia-
ni da daiwyo saqarTveloSi sx-
vanairi guguni, raRac araCveu-
lebrivi. ra gaakeTa xelisuf-
lebam? moqalaqeoba mouxsna, me-
re banki dauyaCaRa...
aravis egonos, vinmes dave-
mono. amiran jaWvlianis Svili
var, yvelaze didi avtoriteti
is iyo da aris CemTvis, amitom
vambob, roca Tqva, rom yvelas
SevekiTxebi fulis warmomavlo-
baze, yvelafers davarqvaT Tavi-
si saxelio. gamixarda, gesmiT,
gamixarda.
axla gamoacxada saakaSvilma
_ ivaniSvils erT adgils ulo-
kaveno.
me veubnebi saakaSvils: ba-
tono prezidento, eseni neba-
yoflobiT ulokaven, zogs ame-
rika ZaliT alokinebs, romeli
jobs? ho, magram Tu biZina iva-
niSvils Cveni moTxovniT moqa-
laqeobas ver davubrunebT, am
logikiT ranairad virCevT pre-
zidents? Cven aravin arafers
gvekiTxeba da am moqalaqeebma
unda ivaJkacon da moagebinon
ivaniSvils arCevnebSi?
fexebze vkidivarT am mTav-
robas. kacs, romelsac 18 elCi
eaxla saxlSi, arafrad Caagdes
da Cven gagviwevs vinme anga-
riSs?!
_ arsebobs argumentebi,
romlebiTac, Turme, biZina iva-
niSvilisTvis moqalaqeobis Ca-
morTmeva kanonieri yofila.
_ davuSvaT, aseTi rame: Se-
momxvda nacnobi, Semxeda da us-
ityvod gaiara. Tu vkiTxav, ra-
tom ar momesalme-meTqi, rom mi-
pasuxos _ iuridiulad maqvs
ufleba ar mogesalmoo, ra vu-
Txra aseT kacs?
kanoni, SeiZleba, asec ambo-
bs, magram iuridiul kanons ada-
miani yvelafers ver miusadageb,
arsebobs moraluri kanonebi...
xom xedavT, ra situaciaa?!
ganZio, ganZi ki ara, sakuTari
Tavi ver dagvicavs da aRar vi-
ciT, xval ra mogvelis.
kanons vemorCilebiT? kanons
ki ara, saakaSvils vemorCile-
biT. Cveni mdgomareoba iciT,
ras hgavs? _ kacs rom aupati-
ureben da muxlebTan xmal-xan-
jali rom uJRarunebs. es ra
ariso? _ rom SekiTxnen, pasu-
xobs: es imitom mWirdeba, Seu-
racxyofa rom aravin momayeno-
so.
am xelisuflebas roca moep-
rianeba, maSin axsendeba kanoni.
mainteresebs, romeli kanoniT
imoqmedes `qarTu-bankis~ inkasa-
ciis manqana rom daayaCaRes?
es xelisufleba aris dampy-
robeli, xolo aseT situaciaSi
kanoni aris xalxi. aTasjer
vTqvi da kidev gavimeoreb _ me
xom SemiZlia movefaro Tvals
da Cemi Tavi davitiro?! Tu
sxva arafris gakeTeba ar gvin-
da, gza ar gadavketoT, foToli
ar SevarxioT, maSin avideT
didgorze da vitiroT xmamaR-
la, daviSinoT TavSi xelebi.
qarTvelma xalxma yovelT-
vis gakeTa is, rac gasakeTebe-
li iyo, marTalia, zogierTi
qarTvel xalxs saqonels uwo-
debda, zogma politikuri saxr-
Cobelac miusaja, mxari ratom
ar damiWireTo, qarTveli xalxi
ar iyo, araerTxel rom gamovi-
da quCaSi saprotestod. 300
000 adamiani rom iyo stadion-
ze Tavmoyrili, ra Sedegi mohy-
va amas? zogierTebi saakaSvils
ekurkurebodnen Turme Cumad.
esaa saqme? winamZRoli ar hyavs
am xalxs, Torem, ase dabeCavebu-
li ar viqnebodiT.
anekdoti gamaxsenda am ambav-
ze. erTi karatisti xvdeba
megobars. karatists saxe dali-
lavebul-dalurjebuli aqvs,
dasiebuli da dabegvilia.
megobari ekiTxeba: vin gcema, bi-
Wo, Sen, aseT Zlier karatistso?
_ me ukontaqtos veCxubebo-
di da iman kontaqturiT Semo-
mitiao.
saakaSvili kontaqturSia
CvenTan da sanam Cven ukontaq-
tod veCxubebiT, manamde dedas
gvitirebs yvelas.
iranda kalandaZe
eWviani ar var, batono,jaWvliani var, magram
bevr rameSi mepareba eWvi...
,,saerTo gazeTis
stumaria~ poeti
jansuR Carkviani.
_ batono jansuR, rogor
SeafasebT biZina ivaniSvilis ga-
moCenis Semdeg Seqmnil realo-
bas?
_ biZina ivaniSvils qarTve-
li xalxi ukve Zalian didi xa-
nia icnobs, ra Tqma unada, kargi
saqmeebiT. igi ver miaRwevda im
warmatebebs, rom ar yofiliyo
kargi diplomati da politiko-
si. batoni biZina Zalian Tavmda-
bali adamiania, maincdamainc ar
uyvars sazogadoebaSi gamoCena,
amitomac qarTvelebis umravle-
soba ar icnobda.
faqtia, ivaniSvili simarT-
lisTvis mebrZol adamianebs ar
daakavebs, piriqiT, xels Se-
uwyobs samarTliani da damouki-
debeli sasamarTlos arsebobas.
vfiqrob, maqsimalurad ecdeba
minimumamde daiyvanos patimrebis
da politpatimrebis raodenoba.
dRemde Tu afinansebda mwer-
lebs, msaxiobebs, akademikosebs,
xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Semdeg
yvelafers ise gaakeTebs ro-
gorc qarTvelebs Seefereba, ase
mgonia me.
_ Tumca ivaniSvilisTvis
mTavar winaRobas saqarTvelos
moqalaqeobis arqona warmoad-
gens. am sakiTxis mogvarebaSi
solidaroba sazogadoebis um-
ravlesobam da saqarTvelos
patriarqma gamoucxades, gamoi-
Rebs es aqtivoba raime Sedegs?
_ darwmunebuli var, es
mTavroba male wava da Tu ke-
Tilgonierebas gamoiCenen da mas
moqalaqeobas daubruneben, maTT-
visve iqneba ukeTesi.
_ ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis sa-
fuZvels, rom miSas xelisufle-
ba male wava?
_ simarTlis dasacavad ase
aRtyinebuli sazogadoeba didi
xania aRar minaxavs. ivaniSvili
kargi politikosi rom ar yofi-
liyo, politikur partniorad
SemTxveviT ar airCevda irakli
alasanias. irakli aris vaJkacu-
ri adamiani, aravisTan SemZvrali
ar yofila.
_ ivaniSvili nino burjana-
ZesTanac apirebs konsultaciebs.
_ biznesmenma aRniSna, rom
TiTqmis yvela politikur par-
tiasTan eqneba konsultaciebi,
sxvanairad arc SeiZleba. danar-
Ceni opozicionerebic Tu
qveynisTvis sasikeTo saqmeebs
gaakeTeben, ara mgonia, maTTan
urTierTobaze uari ganacxa-
dos. Tumca, pirvel etapze, ur-
TierToba eqneba Tavisufal de-
mokratebTan da respublikeleb-
Tan.
_ biZina ivaniSvili apirebs
qarTvelebs qarTuli ocneba
auxdinos, rogor warmogidgeni-
aT qarTuli ocneba, raze unda
gakeTdes aqcentebi?
_ meore planze unda gada-
vides gzebi da Sadrevnebi.
axal gakeTebul gzaze mSieri
da maTxovari adamiani ar unda
dadiodes. qarTvel kacs sabWo-
Ta kavSiris periodSi hqonda
medicina fulis gareSe, swav-
la-ganaTleba, samsaxuri da ar
hqonda Tavisufleba. dRes ki
rac gvqonda, isic davkargeT
da aRarc Tavisufleba gagvaC-
nia.
mixeil saakaSvilma daviT
aRmaSeneblis ZeglTan dado sap-
rezidento fici, Semdeg ki da-
viT meoTxis Zegli gadaitana da
mis adgilas ramdenime dRis ukan
grandiozuli velosipedis qan-
dakeba dadga. amaze didi ubedu-
reba raRa SeiZleba moxdes. uke-
Tesi iqneboda mixeil saakaSvils
qarTlis dedis magivrad traq-
tori daedga. Tu xar diqtato-
ri, unda dadga traqtori.
miranda nabaxteveli
`Tu xar diqtatori, qarTlis dedis magivrad unda dadga traqtori~
13saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
gvesaubreba mwerali
merab SaTiriSvili.
_ yvela vTanxmdebiT erT ra-
meSi _ ivaniSvilis gamoCena qar-
Tul politikaSi rom pozitiu-
ri movlenaa, amas damtkiceba
aRar sWirdeba, magram is eifo-
ria, rac sazogadoebaSi gaCnda,
ar aris mTlad saxarbielo. si-
marTle unda iTqvas, Tumca si-
marTlis Tqma saqarTveloSi, ga-
riyvis sawindaria. simarTle
arc opozicias awyobs, arc xe-
lisuflebas. saerTo jamSi, si-
marTle mwarea, magram xSirad,
uebari wamalic aris.
sanam es adamiani gamoCndebo-
da, qarTuli politikuri area-
li ase gamoiyureboda _ ganad-
gurebuli opozicia, daxocili
adamianebi, yvela mitingi darbe-
uli da uSedegod damTavrebu-
li, wyalsgatanebuli 100 000
adamianis protesti, xelisuf-
lebas erTxelac ki ukan ar da-
uxevia, amas mSvenivrad xedavdnen
ara mxolod saqarTveloSi,
msofliomac kargad uwyis, rac
aq xdeba.
mosalodneli iyo, rom ar-
Cevnebze saakaSvili da misi e.w.
gundi warmogvidgeboda, rogorc
erTmniSvnelovnad gamarjvebuli
partia, ar arsebobda nacmoZrao-
bis alternativa 2012 wels
`nacmoZraoba~ da saakaSvili, fa-
qtobrivad, yalibdeboda, ro-
gorc diqtatoruli mmarTvelo-
ba.
am dros ivaniSvili acxa-
debs, rom is mTavrobaSi mova
ori mesamediT. es, sxvaTa Soris,
mosalodnelic iyo, magram, na-
xeT, riT pasuxobs xelisufleba
_ CamoarTva moqalaqeoba da mi-
si statusi haerSi gamokidebu-
li darCa. am adamians politiku-
ri aqtivobis yvela SesaZleb-
loba CamoerTva, raRac drois
Semdeg advili SesaZlebelia, em-
igraciac daemuqros. ra gamovi-
da? _ xelisuflebam ivaniSvils,
dautova is SesaZlebloba, rom
darCes naxevrad politikosi, es
niSnavs: kanonierad xeliufleba-
Si mosvlis yovelgvari Sansi
mospobili aqvs. rac Seexeba sa-
akaSvils da mis diqtatorul
reJims, man Secvala taqtika da
cdilobs ivaniSvili demokrati-
uli fonisTvis gamoiyenos.
_ magram sad iqneba aq opo-
ziciis adgili?
_ is opoziciuri Zalebi,
romlebic dairazmnen axali Za-
lis garSemo da am rigs, savara-
udod, kidev bevrni SeuerTdebi-
an, ivaniSvilis faqtors mkvdre-
TiT aRdgomisTvis gamoiyeneben,
xolo ivaniSvils, romelsac ar
aqvs saqarTvelos moqalaqeoba
da ufrTxis rusuli proeqtis
iarliyis mikerebas, iZulebiT
frTxili da damTmobi iqneba
opoziciis mimarT, raTa ar da-
kargos isini, rogorc sayrdeni.
xelisuflebas saarCevno man-
qana rogorc hqonda CarTuli,
ise aqvs dResac, is ki ara, ram-
denadme gaaZlieres kidevac. di-
asporebTan gansakuTrebiT aqti-
uroben. kikabiZe Caiyvanes da am-
Rereben, riTac iq Tavisebur
propagandasac ewevian, viciT ma-
Ti saarCevno manipulaciebi, yve-
la da yvelaferi aRricxuli
aqvT. Tu bolomde mivyvebiT, yve-
laferi kontrolqveS aqvT ub-
nis inspeqtoramde, sadarbazom-
de, TiToeul sofelSi ramdeni
xma aqvT, is ician. am saarCevno
manqanas Tu ver SeaCerebs ivaniS-
vilis faqtori, merwmuneT, igi
uZlieres Zalad gadaiqceva da
2012 wels pirwmindad moigebs
arCevnebs. Tan gamoacxadebs da
msofliosac daanaxebs, rom Zli-
erkonkurentunarian garemoSic
ki gamarjveba moipova. msofli-
oc ityvis _ nacionalebi imde-
nad Zlieri da popularuli
arian qveyanaSi, rom maT moiges
mZafr konkurentunarian garemo-
Sic kio.
am dros SesaniSnavad viciT,
rom ivaniSvili. araviTari sta-
tusi ara aqvs da misi yoveli
politikur nabiji iribad unda
gadaidgas. politikaSi ki iribad
gadadgmuli nabijebiT Sedegs
ver maiRwev.
_ ivaniSvili dResac, arCev-
nebamdec arasaxarbielo polit-
ikur mdgomareobaSi Caayena xe-
lisuflebam. ar meTanxmebiT?
_ diax, ra Tqma unda. waar-
Tves moqalaqeoba, dauterores
banki, magram aZlevs sazogadoe-
basTan Sexvedris SesaZleblo-
bas, xels ar uSlis Seqmnas sa-
moqalaqo moZraoba, aliansic,
magram yvelanairad lokalize-
buls xds moqmedebebSi, zRu-
davs.
modiT, ase vityvi, qarTuli
politikuri kazino erT kacs
ekuTvnis da iq vinc Seva, winas-
war unda icodes _ aucileblad
gayvlefen da gaakotreben. Tu
maincdamainc Sexval, maT mier
dawesebuli kanonebiT ki ara, sa-
kuTari wesebiT unda iTamaSo.
gamoricxulia, nacmoZraobis
maxeSi Tavi Seyo da mere iqidan
uvnebeli gamoxvide. CaTvale,
rom Tavi ZaladobiT gaqvs ukve
moWrili da mocelili...
_ e.i. darCa quCis protesti.
_ xSirad svamen aseT kiTx-
vas.
pirdapir minda vT-qva _ visac eSinia, da-dedlebuli da daSine-bulia. saakaSvilma racaq yofnis ganmavloba-Si Caidina: terori, ce-ma, daWera, daxvreta,xalxis dawamlva, ga-zis gaSveba _ veRar ga-imeorebs, xalxo.
me ar vambob imas,rom quCaSi gamovideTim ganzraxviT _ manqa-nebi davamtvrioT, Se-nobebs cecxli movuki-doT, yvelaferi davle-
woT. ara, bato-nebo, gamovid-eT da gamovxa-toT Cveni pro-testi imis ga-mo, rom saqarT-veloSi dabade-bul erT adami-ans, romelsacsikeTis da mad-lis meti ara-feri gaukeTe-bia, saqarTve-loSi moqala-qeoba CamoarT-ves.
am kacs rom moqa-
laqeobas arTmeven, ra
garantia gvaqvs, rom
Cven, ubralo moqalaqe-
ebs xval uaress ar
gvizamen? amazea laparaki. ro-
mel arCevnebze vfiqrobT, xal-
xo, adamians saqarTveloSi yof-
nas ukrZalavs saakaSvili da ar-
CevnebSi Cems xmas angariSs gau-
wevs? es xom absurdia?!
nihilizmi xalxSi erTbaSad
ar Cndeba, nel-nela, nabij-nabij.
Tuki ivaniSvilma, romelsac mo-
qalaqeoba CamoarTves, politi-
kuri aqtivoba SeuzRudes da
ukan daixia, xalxi xedavs, rom
misi gmiri erTxel ukve damar-
cxda da mas Semdeg brZolebSi
imedianad ukve veRar gahyveba.
_ rogor gamoviyenoT? aravi-
Tari mitingi, araviTari quCa,
kanonis farglebSi vimoqmedoTo
_ ambobs batoni biZina. aseT Sem-
TxvevaSi xalxma ra gaakeTos?
_ gekiTxebiT da mi-pasuxeT, romeli mniSv-nelovani gadawyveti-leba iqna miRebulimsoflioSi, xalxis ze-wolis gareSe? sadacar aris mitingi, demon-stracia. Cven ar undamoviTxovoT axla ga-dadges saakaSvili, anmsgavsi radikaluripretenziebi, Cven unda
moviTxovoT erTader-Ti ram _ daubrundesmoqalaqeoba biZina iv-aniSvils. sxva SemTxve-vaSi `qarTuli ocneba~darCeba ocnebad.
_ xalxi xelmowerebs agro-
vebs ivaniSvilisTvis moqalaqeo-
bis dabrunebis moTxovniT. es ar
iqneba efeqturi?
_ mivesalmebiT `jazuSi~ Se-
krebili patiosani adamianebis
survils da iniciativas, magram
xelmowerebis Segroveba araf-
ris momtania. anabrebi SeaqvT
`qarTu bankSi~, mosawonia es,
magram esec arafris momtania.
ase rom, Tu ivaniSvili ar gax-
deba saqarTvelos moqalaqe, is
yovelTvis iqneba damokidebuli
im opoziciur partiebze, rom-
lebmac araerTi labirinTi gamo-
iares da ivaniSvilze metad gaw-
vrTnili arian am kuTxiT.
100 000-ma adamianmaxeli ukve moawera, mag-ram, vnaxavT, ra Sedegieqneba amas. xelmowere-bis friali aintere-sebs zustad am xeli-suflebas. Cven mova-werT xels da es qa-Raldebi bolos moxv-deba saakaSvilis saqa-RaldeSi Taroze. Tun-dac mTelma saqarTve-
lom moaweros xeli,ainunSiac ar Caagdeben,magram quCaSi gamosulxalxs ver ugulebel-yofen.
Cemma mogvarem zaza SaTiriS-
vilma ivaniSvils zneobrivi po-
litikosi uwoda. me veTanxmebi
amaSi, magram ivaniSvils, samwu-
xarod, gverdiT ara hyavs zneob-
rivi politikosebi, mas uxdeba
uzneoTa jarTan Widili da am
SemTxvevaSi zneobrioba wamgebia-
ni ram aris.
mere arCevnebSi rom umrav-
lesoba ver moipovos ivaniSvil-
ma, es uzneo politikosebi iqve
Cven mogvibrundebian da xalxs
dagvabraleben, gvetyvian _ xma
ar mieciT da Cven ra gagvekeTe-
binao. ivaniSvils moqalaqeoba
waarTves da Cems xmas rom wa-
marTmeven arCevnebze, es xom faq-
tia ukve.
_ male sazogadoebrivi moZ-
raoba Seiqmneba.
_ im organizaciaSi iseT
xalxs Tu ar miiwveven, vinc
araerTxel Seurigeblad ebrZo-
da am reJims, es moZraoba, faq-
tobrivad, bavSvur TamaSad dar-
Ceba SeiZleba. am keTilSobil
kacs yvelaferi kargi rom undo-
des, survili erTia, ganxorcie-
leba meore.
iranda kalandaZe
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee
pirdapir vTqvaT, xelisuflebasTanerTad opoziciasac ar unda biZinaivaniSvils moqalaqeoba daubrundes
14 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
interviu gldanis iveriis
yovladwmida RvTismSoblis
eklesiis winamZRvarTan mamabasil mkalaviSvilTan.
_ mamao, rogor fiqrobT, bi-
Zina ivaniSvili SeZlebs xeli-
suflebaSi mosvlas?
_ saxeliTa mamisaTa da Zisa
da sulisa wmidisaTa, CvenTan
ars RmerTi!
sanam Tqvens SekiTxvas vupa-
suxebde, minda sruliad saqarT-
velos marTlmadidebel sazoga-
doebas giorgobis dResaswauli
mivuloco. wminda giorgi farav-
des Cvens mravaltanjul qveya-
nas!
axla, rac Seexeba Tqvens ki-
Txvas. minda giTxraT, rom, dRe-
vandeli gadasaxedidan, TiTqos
yvelaferi wesrigSia, mxolod
isRa dagvrCenia, davtkbeT cxov-
rebiT, ase warmoaCens dRevande-
li xelisufali saqarTvelos
msofliosa da qarTveli mosax-
leobis TvalSi. arada, sinamdvi-
leSi mosaxleobis umravlesoba
gausaZlis pirobebSi cxovrobs.
sasowarkveTilebaSi Cavard-
nilTaTvis, roca yoveli imedi
gadawuruli iyo, RvTis gange-
biT, gamoCnda adamiani, romelic
Svelas hpirdeba xalxs. miuxeda-
vad bevrjer imedgacruebisa, sa-
zogadoebam irwmuna misi, iqedan
gamomdinare, rom mravali keTi-
li saqme aqvs gakeTebuli. gasaT-
valiswinebelia isic, rom iva-
niSvilisTvis SeuZlebelia erT-
baSad yvela gasaWirs uSvelos,
magram cxovrebis pirobebis gar-
kveulwilad gaumjobesebac did
SeRavaTs warmoadgens uaRresad
SeWirvebulTaTvis. amasTanave
xalxma gaigo, rom saakaSvilis
xelisuflebis periodSi rac
keTdeboda _ gzebis dageba, Su-
qi, yvelafers ivaniSvili akeTeb-
da, amitom mas didi mxardaWera
eqneba da mova xelisuflebaSi.
mTavaria, batonma biZinam
RvTis gangebiT iaros da eqneba
Svela uzenaesisgan. mibaZos da-
viT aRmaSenebels, Tamars, vax-
tang gorgasals. mxolod am
gziT, RvTis gangebiT da xalxis
TanadgomiT miaRwevs mizans.
_ Tqven, rogorc madlmosi-
li moZRvari, ras urCevdiT mas?
_ Cemi pozicia ukve davafiq-
sire erT gazeTSi. mgoni, metnak-
lebad micnobT, pirferoba Cem-
gan Sors aris. axla Tqveni ga-
zeTiT visargebleb da ganvacxa-
deb, RvTis msaxuri var, ganvli-
li cxovreba eris interesebisa
da sarwmunoebis dacvisaTvis ga-
mitarebia, dResac igives vagrZe-
leb. aqedan gamomdinare, dRes,
roca ivaniSvilis irgvliv mim-
dinare movlenebi friad aqtua-
luria, Tavs valdebulad vTv-
li, vurCio mas: baton biZinas
unda hyavdes mrCeveli religi-
ur dargSi ise, rogorc daviT
aRmaSenebels giorgi Wyondide-
li, radgan RmerTis sawinaaRmde-
god gadadgmuli yoveli nabiji
da aqedan gamomdinare, arakanon-
zomieri qmedeba, mis sawinaaRm-
degod warimarTeba.
pirovnebebi, romlebic saa-
kaSvilTan erTad Zalismieri me-
TodiT movidnen xelisuflebaSi
da masTan erTad Zirs uTxridnen
isedac danawevrebul qveyanas,
dRes fsevdoopoziciaSi gadaba-
rgdnen da ukve dangreul saqar-
TveloSi axla TiTqos mixvdnen,
vin aris saakaSvili da ver, uf-
ro sworad, ar aRiqvamen, ra
daxmareba gauwies amiT qarTvel-
TmoZule saakaSvils qveynis
ngrevaSi.
is adamianebi, romlebmac
pirveli prezidentis zviad gam-
saxurdias gandevnaSi lomis wi-
li dades, Semdgom niRbebiT, av-
tomatiT xelSi zviadis momxre-
ebs quCaSi dasdevdnen da xvret-
dnen (erT maTgans didubeSi ni-
Rabi Camoxsnes).
Cveni bedkruli saqarTvelo
am gansacdelSi ar Cavardeboda
avlip zurabaSvili cocxali
rom yofiliyo, iqneb mixeil sa-
akaSvili SedarebiT gawonaswo-
rebul mdgomareobamde mieyvana.
is, vinc icavda qarTul
suls, sawmunoebas, akademikos
guram SaraZis saxiT qalaqis
gulSi, dRisiT mzisiT daxvri-
tes. samSoblos moRalate sar-
wmunoebis moZuleni, vinc ar un-
da iyos: xelovani, momRerali,
mwerali Tu nebismieri, qarTve-
li, eris siyvaruls ver daimsa-
xurebs. es uRirsni iRebdnen ba-
ton biZinasgan daxmarebas daum-
saxureblad, nuTu ar dafiqre-
bulan imsaxurebdnen Tu ara
amas. swored amitom vambob, mas
mrCeveli sWirdeba, raTa gaac-
nos, vin vin aris, vis ra sikeTe
moutania qveynisTvis. albaT, ar
iwyens batoni biZina rCeva-dari-
gebas Cemgan, rogorc mravaltan-
juli da araerTxel represire-
buli moZRvrisgan.
ukeTesi iqneba, sanam gverdiT
daiyenebs vinmes, pirovneba iqne-
ba is Tu politikuri partia,
asjer awonos misi avtoriteti.
_ mamao, Tqveni pozicia re-
ligiasa da samSoblosTan mimar-
TebaSi mTeli saqarTvelosTvis
cnobilia. baton biZinas aqvs
aSenebuli samebis taZari, 500-
mde aRdgenili Tu aSenebuli ek-
lesia-mmonasteri. Tqven xom ar
iTvlebiT maT ricxvSi?
_ viqnebi gulwrfeli, sam-
wuxarod, ara. mokled getyviT,
eklesiis mSenebloba carieli
xelebiT daviwyeT, mrevlis Se-
mowirulobiT. 80 TeTric ki
daudvia zogierTs. rom davfiq-
rdebi, vekiTxebi Cems Tavs: nu-
Tu marTla Cven avageT es ula-
mazesi taZari. ramdenad didia
RvTis Zala. mSeneblobis dros
mivmarTeT ramodenime biznesmens
daxmarebisTvis, magram garkveu-
li Zalebi gzas uRobavda maT.
qvelmoqmedebas eklesia-monast-
rebis aRdgenis saqmeSi, romel-
sac batoni biZina aRasrulebda,
igive Cvenic ar aris? albaT,
RvTis neba iyo kapikebiT agebu-
liyo Cveni eklesia. marTlac
dauRalavi SromiT avageT gran-
diozuli taZari, romelic
gldanis mSvenebaa, kuTvnilebaa
saqarTvelosi, momavali Taobisa
da sadideblad RmrTisa.
me da Cemi mravalricxovani
mrevli TiTqmis 17 welia miva-
bijebT qristes eklian gzaze.
Tamamad SemiZlia vTqva, rom
friad ganswavluli mrevli
myavs. maT ician, risTvis airCi-
es es gza, sad midian da ra
aris maTi mizani. suliT da gu-
liT RmerTs mindobili adamiani
mTebsac ki SeZravs. isini saRad
aRiqvamen saqarTveloSi mimdina-
re movlenebs. maT CemTan erTad
mravali gansacdeli, devna da
Seviwroeba gadaitanes. marto
is aris aRsaniSnavi, 6 weli Ria
cis qveS vloculobdiT marTl-
madidebelTaTvis, saqarTvelos-
Tvis da maTTvisac ki, vinac
omonis ZaliT gamogvdevna. mad-
loba ufals, es wlebi dau-
viwyaria TiToeuli CvenganisT-
vis da saqarTvelos istoriisT-
vis. Cven erT enaze vsaubrobT _
RmerTis enaze. maT sjeraT Cemi
da Cven davuWeT mxars imas,
vinc swored xalxis keTildRe-
obisTvis ibrZolebs, izrunebs
SeWirvebulTa pirobebis gaum-
jobesebisaTvis, daicavs marTl-
madideblobas. wminda ioane oq-
ropiri brZanebs: `mdidari xar?
me amis sawinaaRmdego araferi
maqvs. Zunwi xar, ai, amitom gan-
gikiTxav~. amitom eqneba xalxis
didi mxardaWera ivaniSvils,
maT Soris Cvenic.
_ mamao, yvelam vixileT, bi-
Zina ivaniSvili Sexvda patri-
arqs. es imis mauwyebelia, rom
patriarqi mxars uWers?
_ friad moxaruli var. am-
deni dumilis, miTqma-moTqmis
Semdeg Sedga maTi Sexvedra. Sev-
Txovdi ufals, kars miRma maTi
saubari mxolod Cveni qveynis
sasargeblod warimarTos.
patriarqisgan ufro damaje-
rebel, kategoriul gancxadebas
velodi. mas principulad unda
moeTxova, RmerTis saxeliTa da
marTlmadidebelTa TxovniT sas-
wrafod aRedginaT misTvis moqa-
laqeoba.
samwuxaroa, rom patriarqi
xmas ar iRebs mTavrobis uRirs
saqcielebze. eris sulierma ma-
mam unda datuqsos is mTavroba,
romelic arcxvens saqarTvelos
da RmerTis winaaRmdeg midis. es
ufleba mas uflisgan aqvs mini-
Webuli. igi valdebuli aris
aRudges eris moRalateebs, dag-
mos maTi mzakvruli qmedeba.
dabolos, movuwodeb Cems
xalxs moTminebisaken. moTminebi-
Ta da molodiniT miabijebda Cve-
ni eri odiTgan. xan umarTlebda,
xan _ ara taZrisken mimaval gza-
ze. es imaze iyo damokidebuli,
Tu rogori xelisufali uZRve-
boda ers. iyo is RvTis rCeuli
Tu ara. amitom visurvebdi, is
movlenebi, romlis morevSi
vtrialebT, midiodes RvTis ne-
biT, warimarTos xalxis sake-
TildReod. daiRala sazogadoe-
ba amdeni imedgacruebiT.
SevTxov ufals, ieso qriste
macxovars, rameTu saqarTvelo
misi rCeulia, yovladwmida de-
das, rameTu iberia misi wilx-
vedria, mowyalebis TvaliT gad-
mogvxedon uRirs, codvil Svi-
lebs. RvTis nebiT, saqarTvelo-
Si moiZebneba patara armia WeS-
marit marTlmadidebelTa, ro-
melnic bolomde erTgulni iqne-
bian RmrTisa da aRmsrulebelni
uflis WeSmariti mcnebebisa _
ai, amitom gabrwyindeba iberia.
RmerTma daglocoT.
iranda kalandaZe
patriarqisgan ufro damajerebel da kategoriulgancxadebas velodi
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
15#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
dRes `vardebis revoluciis~
Semoqmedni 8 wlis iubiles izei-
meben, xolo or TveSi amave revo-
luciis erT-eerTi Semoqmedis zu-
rab Jvanias dRemde burusiT mo-
culi gardacvalebidan 7 weli
gaxdeba, rogor uyurebs am gadmo-
saxedidan yofili premieris Zma
movlenebs? amis gasarkvevad `sa-
erTo gazeTi~ gogla Jvaniasesaubra:
_ `vardebis revolucia~ iyo
molodini, rom qveyanaSi raRac
Seicvleboda. yvelas gvaxsovs,
SevardanaZis periodis sruli
stagnacia. qveyana faqtobrivad,
WaobSi imyofeboda, ramdenime
klanuri banda daboginebda da aq
cxovrebas kidev ufro gausaZ-
liss xdida.
2003 wlis 23 nomebridan
sul mcire xanSi Zalian dramatu-
lad ganviTarda movlenebi. revo-
luciam kraxi ganicada. kraxi ga-
nicada, imitom rom, erT-erTi
mTavari Semoqmedi da mamoZravebe-
li am revoluciisa, dRes aRar
aris. Cemi Zma, zurab Jvania, erTi
wlis Tavze Camoaciles qarTul
politikas. mas mere TandaTanobiT
Zalian dramatulad daiwyo qveya-
naSi movlenebis ganviTareba da im
ukanonobis zeimi, risi mowmec
dRes sruliad saqarTveloa.
_ Tumca gaCnda perspeqtiva,
rom miliarderi biznesmeni, qvel-
moqmedi da politikaSi ambiciuri
gancxadebiT mosuli ivaniSvili
am usamarTlobas SeebrZoleba,
rogor uyurebT axal realobas
qarTul politikur cxovrebaSi?
_ sul axlaxan opoziciur
flangze sruli sicariele iyo,
politikuri sivrcis baton-pat-
roni darCa mixeil saakaSvili
Tavis gundTan erTad da realuri
konkurencia aravis SeeZlo gae-
wia. am situaciaSi ivaniSvilis
gamoCena Zalian mniSvnelovani da
sasikeToa. yvela SemTxvevaSi es
faqtori sasikeTod aisaxeba Cvens
qveyanaze, erTgvari politikuri
balansi, wonasworoba dabrunda
qarTul politikur sivrceSi da
didi imedi maqvs, rom samomavlod
es yvelaferi ivaniSvilis da qar-
Tveli xalxis sasikeTod das-
ruldeba.
_ miuxedavad imisa, rom iva-
niSvils es xelisufleba gasaqans
ar aZlevs da yvela gziT cdi-
lobs, mis dablokvas?_
_ bunebrivia, dablokaven. arc
unda movelodeT, rom es xeli-
sufleba oponentebTan Cveulebri-
vi politikuri brZolis gzebs
mimarTavs. am adamianebisTvis,
romlebic dRes xelisuflebaSi
imyofebian, Zalian mniSvnelovania,
rom Zalaufleba nebismieri gziT
SeinarCunon. brZolis yvela
xerxs gamoiyeneben, miuxedavad
imisa, kanonieri iqneba Tu ara ka-
nonieri.
_ Tu gaqvT molodini, rom
ivaniSvilis pirobebSi yvelafers
Tavisi saxeli daerqmeva, Tu
gaqvT imedi, rom Tqveni Zmis gar-
dacvalebis Temas bolos da bo-
los naTeli moefineba?_
_ bunebrivia, sruliad sazo-
gadoebaSi Cndeba imedi. ivaniSvi-
lis gamoCena, pirvel rigSi, aCens
im molodins, rom qveyanaSi sasi-
keTo cvlilebebi daiwyeba. Cven
xom ukve didi xnis ganmavlobaSi-
8 welia, vcxovrobT nacionaluri
moZraobis xelmZRvanelobiT da
Sesabamisad, vxedavT uamrav usa-
marTlobas, rac Cvens qveyanaSi
xdeba. ukve Zalian bevri kiTxvis
niSani dagrovda sazogadoebaSi am
xelisuflebis mimarT. bunebrivia,
yvelas gviCndeba imedi, Tu Seic-
vala xelisufleba da movida axa-
li adamiani, axali xalxi, maSin
viTareba Seicvleba da yvela
kiTxvas pasuxi gaecema._
_ batono gogla, rogor Sea-
fasebT ybadaRebul Temebs: iva-
niSvilis rusul kapitalze, ru-
seTTan urTierTobis daTbobis
momxre politikosebis mudmivad
diskreditaciis mcdelobebze da
a.S.
_ nu axla Zalian sasaciloa
ivaniSvilis kapitalis warmomav-
lobaze, roca iwyebs xelisufle-
ba laparaks. es adamiani xom kar-
ga xnis ganmavlobaSi afinansebda
nacmoZraobas da maT proeqtebs,
maSin aravis gaxsenebia am kapita-
lis warmomavloba. roca maTi
oponenti gaxda, maSin gaaxsendaT?
Zalian sasaciloa, saerTod, bavS-
vuri saubaria, amaze seriozuli
komentari arc Rirs.
rac Seexeba ruseTTan urTi-
erTobis daTbobas, bunebrivia, Ti-
Toeuli momxre unda viyoT, rom
Cvens qveyanas normaluri, keTil-
mezobluri urTierTobebi hqon-
des. mimaCnia, is konfliqti, rac
saqarTvelos da ruseTs Soris
arsebobs, subieqturi faqtorebiT
aris gamowveuli, sxva safuZveli
amas ar gaaCnia. momxre var, ru-
seTTan urTierTobis daTobisaa
da daregulirebis.
saerTod, yvelaze
mniSvnelovani prob-
lemad, yvelaze didi
satkivarad, afxazeTi
da cxinvalis regio-
nebi mimaCnia. Tu Cven
ar davaregulirebT
ruseTTan urTierTo-
bebs am problemebs
ver gadavWriT. erTa-
derTi gza afxazeTis
da cxinvalis prob-
lemis mogvarebis ru-
seTTan saerTo enis
gamonaxvaa, sxvanairad
es ar gamova.
_ rogor uyu-
rebT natoSi gawevri-
anebis e.w. uaxles
perspeqtivas, albaT,
upriani iqneba Sev-
niSnoT, rom es Tema ivaniSvilis
politikaSi gamoCenis kvaldakval
gaaqtiure.
_ uaxloes momavalSi natoSi
Sesvla Cven ar gvemuqreba. es Te-
ma jer kidev SevardaniZis piro-
bebSi wamoswies, rom aliansSi in-
tegraciis perspeqtiva gvaqvso.
rac saakaSvili movida, mas merec
ganavrces natos Tema, ai, dRes
migviReben..xval migviReben... miv-
divarT kus nabijebiT da realu-
rad, arc ki mivdivarT, erT ad-
gils vtkepniT. nato aris demok-
ratiuli qveynebis gaerTianeba,
xolo saqarTvelo dRes demokra-
tiidan Zalian Sorsaa.
Camodian es ucxoeli politi-
kosebi Cveni megobari qveynebidan,
xan Segviqeben reformebs, xan gag-
vkicxaven, xan dagviyvaveben da
amiT amoiwureba. realurad, na-
tosken integraciis gzaze erT
adgilas gaviyineT. demokratiu-
lobis garda, ver vakmayofilebT
meore moTxovnas-stabilurobas,
jer kidev sami wlis win erT-erT
yvelaze saSiS qveyanad gvTvlid-
nen ucxo saxelmwifoebi, radgan
omi gvqonda gaCaRebuli. axla Za-
lian araseriozuli iqneba gvqon-
des molodini, rom uaxloes mo-
mavalSi natoSi migviReben, miTu-
metes, dResac moqmedi konfliqti
gvaqvs ruseTis oficiozTan. es
konfliqti amowuruli ar aris,
ki arada, naxevrad saomar viTare-
baSi vrCebiT. romel natoSi ga-
wevrianebazea saubaria?_
_ am dros ki, ucxoeli mego-
bari saxelmwifoebi saqarTvelos
TemiT manipulireben da mimdinare
reformebsac, xan Segviqeben, xan
ki gagvkicxaven...
_ esa Tu is saerTaSoriso
organizacia, esa Tu is ucxoeli
politikosi Segvaqebs, Tu gagv-
kicxavs, simarTli giTxraT, CemT-
vis meorexarisxovania. am qveyana-
Si mcxovrebi adamianebi realobas
sakuTar Tavze SesaniSnavad vgr-
ZobT da Tu rame sasikeTo xdeba,
pirvel rigSi amas Cvenve vigrZ-
nobT. viRac ucxoelma eqspertma
ki ar unda gagvagebinos, an viRac
ucxoelma, romelic saqarTvelo-
Si ramdenime saaTiT Camova da me-
re wava da Tavis komfortul ga-
remoSi dabrundeba- misTvis ki ar
unda iyos TvalsaCino raRac cvi-
lilebebi da reformebi, aramed
TvalsaCino unda iyos TiToeuli
CvenganisTvis. Cemi gadmosaxedidan
da im adamianebis azriTac, visTa-
nac vurTierTob da albaT, sxve-
bisTvisac, viTareba dRiTidRe
mZimdeba.
_ batono gogla, rogor Sea-
fasebT gancxadebas, rom 2008
wels saqarTvelom moaxdina ru-
seTTan omis provocireba?_
_ am omSi samive mxarem Sei-
tana wvlili. Tumca isic saTqme-
lia, rom saqarTvelos xelisuf-
lebamac Tavisi `gaakeTa~,man omis-
Tvis win da win daiwyo mzadeba.
saqarTveloSi 2004wlidan-
2008 wlamde gamalebuli Seiara-
Reba midioda. samxedro biujetis
ganuwyveteli zrdaze iyo xeli-
sufleba momarTuli, miliardo-
biT daxarjes omis warmoebisaT-
vis, xolo 5 dReSi miliardo-
biT dolari sruliad gamousade-
gari aRmoCnda. aTjer an asjer
naklebi Tanxa, rom dagvexarja
zustad igive Sedegs miviRebdiT.
es uazroba iyo, es iyo gadayri-
li fuli.
Tanxis nawili moxmarda iara-
Ris SeZenas, raRac gadaiaraRebas,
raRac bazebis mSeneblobas, vi-
Tomda, jarebis momzadebas... mniS-
vnelovani nawili ki, daileqa Ci-
novnikebis jibeebSi. es fuli,
rom qarTul ekonomikaSi Cadebu-
liyo axla sxvagvar garemoSi
vicxovrebdiT, im Cvens separatis-
tul regionebTanac bevrad ufro
gagviadvildeboda saubari da arc
ruseTTan gveqneboda amdeni prob-
lema.
sasaciloa, saqarTvelosnairi
qveyana emzadebodes, ruseTTan om-
isaTvis. Kki batono, SeiZleba ga-
dado Tavi da ibrZolo CeCnebi-
viT, Tumca ar var am gzis momx-
re. ai, CeCnebma gadades Tavi da
400 weli ibrZvian, Tumca realu-
rad, gacamtverda CeCneTi da ga-
nadgurda maTi genofondi. ar min-
da Cveni qveyana analogiur viTa-
rebaSi aRmoCndes. axla mTeli
msoflio cdilobs airidos ru-
seTTan problemebi, Cven ki ra-
tomRac yvelanairad movindomeT,
rom lomis xaxaSi aRmovCeniliya-
viT.
_ Tqveni azriT, ra aris mize-
zi Cveni aseTi `kamikaZeobisa~?_
_ ver gavige mizezi. etyoba,
marTlac sjerodaT, rom raRac
Sedegs miaRwevdnen. me im adamia-
nebze, romlebic dRes marTaven
Cvens qveyanas maRali warmodgenis
ar var. eseni ar arian seriozu-
li adamianebi. realobas mowyve-
tilni arian. arc is aris gamo-
ricxuli, viRacam daajera, rom
es problema Zalismieri gziT ga-
dawydeboda. faqtia, tribuna
hqondaT gamzadebuli, rom Semdeg
mixeil saakaSvils TbilisSi Ca-
moetana da aRlumi gaemarTa.xom
gvazeimes ruseTTan omSi gamarj-
veba.
_ es rac Seexeba, ruseT-ssa-
qarTvelos oms, axlo momavalSi
ki, sazogadoebas sakuTar xeli-
suflebasTan aqvs brZola mosage-
bi. albaT, dameTanxmebiT, civili-
zebuli arCevnebis pirobebSi iva-
niSvili am reJims didi upirate-
sobiT daamTavrebda, axla ra San-
sebi rCeba?
_ absoluturad geTanxmebiT.
TviTon saakaSvilmac icis, rom
samarTlebrivi arCevnebis piro-
bebSi damarcxdeba. unda iTqvas,
es ar iqneba mxolod arCevnebi,
radgan xelisufleba gasayalbeb-
lad berketebs SesaniSnavad fl-
obs. amitom TiToeul Cvengans mo-
uwevs sakuTari xmis dacva. amaT
ician, rogor CaSalon procesi,
rogor gamoiyvanon oponenti wyo-
bidan, ai, amitom arCevnebis gan-
mavlobaSi, xmebis daTvlis peri-
odSi da am procesebis logikur
finalamde, xalxi gareT unda ga-
movides da ubnebTan dadges. ra
Tqma unda, Sexla-Semoxla iqneba.
Tumca, bolomde unda davdgeT
mtkiced da vibrZoloT gamarjve-
bisTvis. momavali arCevnebi-es
aris brZola xelisuflebasa da
sazogadoebas Soris. optimisti
var da mjera gavimarjvebT.
bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi
mraval qveyanaSi vimogzaure da
Sedarebebis saSualeba mqonda,
amitom vambob, Cven didi potenci-
alis xalxi varT, amaSi vgulisx-
mob ara bunebriv pirobebsa da re-
sursebs, aramed, pirvel rigSi,
Cvens xalxs, Cven sazogadoebas.
Tavsmoxveuli da amerikanizebuli
araferSi gvWirdeba, sxvisi ana-
rekli ar unda gavxdeT.gvaqvs sa-
kuTari sruliad unikaluri -qar-
Tuli, rasac Senaxva da gafrTxi-
leba sWirdeba. amitom biZina iva-
niSvili, Tu am `qarTul ocnebas~
agvisrulebs, mxolod mivesalme-
bi.
naTia nodia
ras fiqrobs da ras urCevs sazogadoebas vardebis
revoluciis me-8 wlisTavzezurab Jvanias Zma gogla Jvania
16 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
bolo xania xelisuflebis
qmedeba `qarTu~ bankis mimarT
araprognozirebadi gaxda. mii-
Res axali cvlileba kanonSi
`aRsrulebis Sesaxeb~ _ rome-
lic aseve am organizaciis wina-
aRmdeg aris mimarTuli _ ro-
gorc specialistebi ganmarta-
ven.
sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT vesa-
ubrebiT ekonomikis mecnierebaTa
doqtors, profesor lado pa-pavas.
_ batono lado, iSviaTia
Tu ara msoflio politikaSi
iseTi SemTxvevebi, rodesac ol-
igarqi midis maT Semadgenloba-
Si da saerTod, TvliT Tu ara,
rom biZina ivaniSvili aris
oligarqi?
_ oligarqi aris adamiani,
romelic iyenebs xelisufleba-
Si yofnas da xelisuflebis xe-
liT arsebul berketebs gasam-
didreblad.
oligarqs eZaxdnenbadri patarkaciSvi-ls, magram is oligar-qi ar yofila imitom,rom is arc ruseTis xe-lisuflebaSi yofila,arc saqarTvelos xe-lisuflebaSi. ase, romvinaidan ivaniSvili aryofila dRemde xeli-suflebaSi, is ar arisoligarqi, ubralod,is gaxlavT miliarde-ri.
rac Seexeba, magaliTad, ben-
duqiZes, is aris oligarqi imi-
tom, rom rac is xelisufleba-
Sia, mis qonebas miemata, Torem
araferi daklebia.
es termini SemTxveviT ar ga-
mouyenebiaT, oponentebs surT
daakninon ivaniSvili da imitom
Tqves ase. faqtia, rom baton bi-
Zinas politikaSi yofniT ar
uSovia fuli.
_ rac Seexeba sabanko opera-
cias, iyo Tu ara raime darRve-
viT Sesrulebuli, ratom moxda
Tanxebis CamorTmeva?
_ `qarTu~ bankis mxridan
aranairi darRveva ar momxdara,
Cveulebrivi ram aris, rodesac
erT banks aqvs naRdi fuli, Se-
iZleba meore bankma Tu mas aqvs
angariSze Tanxa, is gadaitanos.
es Cveulebrivi momentia. miTu-
metes, rom am sabanko operacia-
Si monawileobda `doiCe bankis~
amerikuli ofisi da amerikuli
`siTi~ banki. es bankTaSorisi
operacia iyo, aranair fulis
gaTeTrebas adgili ar hqonia,
Tu maincdamainc fulis gaTeT-
rebaze iyo eWvi, ratom ar mii-
tanes eWvi im bankze, saidanac
gavida Tanxa? ase rom, absolu-
turad xelovnurad aris Seqmni-
li es problema. aSkaraa, rom es
yovelive gakeTda politikuri
niSniT.
amis mere naxeT, ra moxda?
mTavrobis zewolis gamo sxva-
dasxva organizaciebma da kompa-
niebma `qarTu~ bankidan gaitanes
Tanxebi da angariSebi, daaxloe-
biT sul 45 milioni lari. es
aris ukve reJimis qmedeba am ban-
kis winaaRmdeg, politikur-rep-
resiuli xasiaTis. es aris dau-
faravi brZola `qarTu~ bankis
winaaRmdeg.
asea Tu ise, ramdeni xani ga-
vida am operaciis Catarebidan,
raime safuZveli, rom hqonoda
erovnul banks an xelisufle-
bas, ar ityodnen? ubralod,
aranairi darRveva ar arsebobs.
waarTves `qarTu~ banks fu-
li da erovnuli bankis prezi-
denti acxadebs, rom mzad varT
amave raodenobis Tanxa maT va-
sesxoTo. ras niSnavs es? ratom
unda asesxo fuli banks? imi-
tom rom waarTvi?
garkveuli dapiris-pirebis SesaqmneladgakeTda isic, rom 9 no-embers erovnulma ban-kma moiTxova `qarTu~bankidan gadaricxvebi,xolo 10 noembers ga-zeTSi gakeTda gancxa-deba imis Taobaze, Tuvin iRebs `qarTu~ jgu-fidan daxmarebebs. vi-meoreb, es yvelaferigaxlavT brZola iva-niSvilis winaaRmdeg.
_ amave periods daemTxva ka-
nonSi cvlileba `aRsrulebis
Sesaxeb~ _ rac garkveulwilad
kvlav `qarTu~ bankis winaaRmdeg
aris mimarTuli, mas barbaro-
sul kanonsac uwodeben, amaze
ras ityviT?
_ es cvlileba aris serio-
zuli zianis momtani mTeli Cve-
ni sabanko sistemisaTvis, imitom
rom Tu kerZo an iuridiul
pirs moundeba sesxis aReba gi-
raoSi raime qonebis Cadebis
gziT, axla es giraos valdebu-
leba, Tu masTan mimarTebaSi aR-
moCndeba darRveva, SeuZlia wai-
Ros mTavrobam da praqtikulad,
bankebi SeiZleba gakotrdes. sa-
banko asociacia, romelic am ka-
nonis winaaRmdeg xmas unda
imaRlebdes, saerTod
dums, erovnuli banki
ki Tvals xuWavs.
_ emuqreba Tu ara
gakotrebis safrTxe
`qarTu~ banks?
_ ara mgonia, ga-
kotrdes, Tumca, Teo-
riulad amis Sansi
arsebobs, miTumetes
dRes, rodesac erov-
nuli bankidan yvela-
feria mosalodneli.
miuxedavad imisa, rom
xalxi dadga am bankis
gverdiT da 6400-mde
moqalaqem Seitana ana-
bari. es iSviaTi Sem-
Txveva iyo bankebis
istoriaSi, radganac roca banks
eqmneba problemebi, moqalaqeebi
cdiloben iqidan Tanxebis gata-
nas, aq ki piriqiT moxda. amiT
xalxma gamoxata Tavisi dadebi-
Ti pozicia biZina ivaniSvilis
mimarT.
_ daubrundeba Tu ara `qar-
Tu~ banks is 45 milioni lari,
romelic organizaciebma gaita-
nes? an is ori milioni dola-
ri da erTi milioni evro, ro-
melic waarTves?
_ ormocdaxuTi milioni la-
ri savaraudod, ar daubrundeba,
rac Sexeba warTmeul Tanxas,
mTavroba Seecdeba gawelos
dro, rom ar misces ukan. rac
Seexeba kanons `aRsrulebis Se-
saxeb~, is safrTxis Semcvelia
yvela bankisaTvis. qarTveli xa-
lxis mxridan da ucxoeTidanac
biZina ivaniSvils sakmao mxarda-
Wera aqvs da es SeiZleba iyos
garkveulwilad Semakavebeli
faqtori, Tumca, `agresiuli na-
cionalizmi~ Tu `nacionaluri
agresiuloba~ saqarTveloSi cn-
obilia, da is arafers ar gamo-
ricxavs.
_ amas winaT premier-mminist-
rma gilaurma ekonomikuri gan-
viTarebis xuTwliani gegma wa-
radgina, es kanonzomieri movle-
naa, Tu isini momaval 5 welsac
apireben xelisuflebaSi darCe-
nas?
_ saerTod, ekonomikaSi cno-
bilia dagegmvis ori sistema –
direqtiuli da indikatiuri. aqe-
dan pirveli gamoiyeneboda ssrk-
s dros, roca gegmas kanonis Za-
la hqonda, indikatiuri dagegm-
va aris dagegmvis iseTi saxeoba,
roca arsebobs winaswari xedva,
Tu rogor unda ganviTardes
ekonomika. 1996 wlidan Cvens
qveyanaSi moqmedebda indikatiu-
ri dagegmvis kanoni, romelic
`vardebis revoluciis~ Semdeg
gauqmda. Tan iTqva, rom ar iyo
saWiro dagegmva, exla ki mTav-
robam SemogvTavaza xuTwliani
gegma.
Cvens konstituciuri sivr-
ceSi am xelisuflebis ufleba-
mosileba 2013 wlisTvis gadis.
amitom, es gegma rom yofiliyo
mxolod 2012-13 wlebze gaTv-
lili, gavigebdiT, magram dRes
is sruliad gaugebaria. mokled,
es aris mxolod piarisaTvis ga-
keTebuli qmedeba da meti arafe-
ri.
_ daiwyo msoflio ekonomi-
kuri krizisis axali talRa,
ramdenad imoqmedebs es Cvens
qveyanaze, sadac aranairi qarxa-
na da fabrika ar muSaobs. am
krizisSi xom didi xania varT
da mgoni, SeveCvieT kidec, amaze
uaresic iqneba?
_ wina wlebSi es garkveul-
wilad, naklebad SegvemCna, rad-
ganac agvistos omis gamo mivi-
ReT seriozuli finansuri dax-
mareba. es Tanxebi bolomde dRe-
sac ar aris aTvisebuli.
dRes es krizisi arCamcxrala, is dRemdeRvioda anu momavalikrizisi Cvens qveyanazeufro seriozuli Se-degebiT aisaxeba, vid-re is iyo 2008 wels,gaZvirdeba produqte-bi, rac mosaxleobasufro gaaRaribebs.
_ dabolos, minda gkiTxoT,
ruseTis gaerTianeba `msoflio
savaWro organizaciaSi~ ra Se-
degebs moutans maT da ra Sede-
gebs mogvitans Cven?
_ Cvenma qveyanam miiRo kom-
pensacia politikuri Tvalsaz-
risiT, anu saxmeleTo sazRvreb-
ze gaCndebian damkvirveblebi!
amiT moskovma praqtikulad da-
aknina mis mier afxazeTisa da
oseTis damoukideblobis aRia-
reba. am etapze es qmedeba Cven-
Tvis aris pozitivi.
ruseTma ki `savaWro organi-
zaciaSi~ gaerTianebiT miiRo is,
rom maTi ambicia dakmayofilda.
maT aqvT pretenzia imaze, rom
arian msoflios lideri qveyana
da ar iyvnen msoflio savaWro
organizaciis wevrebi. ruseTi
xom Tvlis, rom aris msoflios
erTerTi `polusi~. es ambiciac
daikmayofiles.
evropam da amerikam ki miiRo
axali bazari, romelic ufro
prognozirebadi iqneba maTTvis,
radganac am organizaciis wev-
roba aris garkveuli valdebu-
lebac da qcevis CarCoebSi moq-
cevac. amitom rusul bazarze
Sesvla danarCeni qveynebisTvis
nakleb riskiani iqneba.
eTer kasreliSvili
agresiuli nacionalizmisaganyvelaferi aris mosalodneli
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zze
bbaaRRaaTTuurriiaa xxeelloovvnneebbaassaa ddaa ppoolliittiikkaaSSii ggiiggaannttiizzmmiissmmiimmddiinnaarreeoobbiiss ddaammkkvviiddrreebbaass aammCCnneevvss
politikuri partia “qarTuli dasis” lider jondi baRaTurias mosazrebiT,
xelovnebasa da politikaSi “gigantizmis” mimdinareoba mkvidrdeba.
rogorc man dRes parlamentis plenarul sxdomaze ganacxada, es procesi ba-
TumSi dedaenis giganturi Zeglis mSeneblobiT daiwyo. is 26 milioni lari daj-
da maSin, roca moswavleebs dedaenis saxelmZRvanelos yidvis fuli ar aqvT. mim-
dinare wlis zafxulSi ki xelisuflebam giganturi foierverkebi moawyo da
klaipedaSi giganturi xaWapurebi daacxo. mogvianebiT giganturi kvercxebi da
Slopancebi, axlaxan ki giganturi velosipedi daidga iq, sadac daviTis Zegli
idga da maSin, roca “moxucebsa da bavSvebs operaciisa da wamlis fuli ar aqvT”.
baRaTurias es gamosvla umravlesobam gaakritika. deputatma zurab meliqiSvilma ki xazi baRa-
Turias mier arasworad naTqvam termins – `velosapets~ imiT gausva, rom man es sityva Tavadac ase-
ve gangeb arasworad warmoTqva.
`medianiusi~
17saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
rasac waswvda,ise Tqvlifa,ise nTqa da iseylapa,
svlipa, ReWa, ZiZgna,tlaka, loka, yanyla,xvripa, xapa,
qvabisaken gza-sava-li Rrena-kbeniT gaika-fa,
sxva rom ar Secile-boda, yefiT piric aiqa-fa,
muqTa ToxliT nebie-ram moimrgvala kox-tad traki,
ZaRls ki ara, ammTavrobas gulisxmob-da es araki.
dakvirvebuli var:
saakaSvilis yvelaze
didi apologetebic
ki arasdros iyene-
ben mis mimarT iseT epiTe-
tebs, rogoricaa “mamaci”,
“principuli”, “gawonaswore-
buli”, “gulisxmieri”, “lmo-
bieri”, “keTili”, “erTguli”,
“yuradRebiani”, “Wkuadamjda-
ri”, “taqtiani”, “daxvewili”,
“gemovnebiani”, “simpatiuri”.
is mxolod “magaria!”
axla vuyure “rus-
Tavi2”-ze erTi
(gvars ar davasaxe-
leb) kacis “zavo-
dobas”! ra STabeWdileba dam-
rCa? ra da, me S..... Sah-abasis
dedas, ase rom gamipederasta
kaxelebi!!! mogrZom yvarelSi
mezoblebi gadmoipatiJa sax-
lSi:))) xelovnuri ganayofi-
ereba gamigia, xelovnuri fe-
xi gamigia - xelovnuri me-
zobloba ar gamigia..:))))))
hm, mezoblebi dapatiJa biWma.
ori kilo xorci iyida, 2 ki-
lo yveli, 10 CurCxela da
20 kacs gauSala sufra.
ambavi... SeiZleba qe
iciT mara... veronika
kanadaSi midiodao...
miSam qoSebi ukuRma
yarao... da veronikas koduas
biznesi Caaxuteso... sawyali
laura... fabrikas arTmeven...
hihi... ra kaia, araferi rom
ara maqvs... verafersac ver
wamarTmeven... indeee, miSiko,
Cagigde Tu ara kovzi nacar-
Si?
omi namdvilad ar
dauwyia geTanxmebi,
ubralod, provoka-
cia moawyo, rom ru-
seTs teritoriebis warTmeva-
Si daxmareboda.anu es saqci-
eli ruseTma gamoiyena Zali-
an kargad saTavisod. omis
dawyebis da samSoblos dac-
vis Sno vin misca am ubedu-
rebs. eseni sawyali xalxis
daterorebaze da dasjaze
arian magari biWebi.
amixsnas vinmem, ra-
tom moxda axalgo-
ris, yornisis kvlav
cxinvalis regionze mibma da,
kodoris xeobis afxazeTze
mibma?.imitom rom moRalate
qarTvelebs gadaecaT es te-
ritoriebi ruseTisTvis,omi
SevardnaZem da saakaSvilma
daarqves, Torem kargad
icodnen ra scenariTac moq-
medebdnen, es scenari rusma
da amerikelma reJisorebma
daweres da qarTvelma moRa-
lateebma gadaiRes. qarTulma
bankebma 2008 wlis maisis
Tvidan sagrZnoblad Seamci-
res kreditebis gacema, da-
iwyes Tanxebis mobilize-
ba.(hkiTxeT Tqvens nacnobebs
bankSi Tu gyavT) jandacvis
saministros daevala,damate-
biT SeeZina gadasaxvevi, gama-
yuCebeli saSualebebi, cecx-
lsasroli iaraRiT miyenebu-
li Wrilobebis dros gamosa-
yenebeli medikamentebi.. dam-
Txveva iyo es?
uaxlesi anekdoti.
SeiZleba iTqvas,
ToTo: ori eqsperti
msjelobs: udavod, baTumSi
moxda diqtaturis bolo
stadiis gamovlineba _ rode-
sac xelisufalni sicocxle-
Sive idgamen Zeglebs... _ eg
gasagebia, magram Tavze Slo-
panci ratom daides, amas ver
vxvdebi...
SemogvierTdi facebook-zze
`saerTo ggazeTi~
xalxis azriT
Face
book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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book
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bookras fiqroben qarTvelebi
`qarTul ocnebaze~
ada marSania,, aaffxxaazzeeTTiissuummaaRRlleessii ssaabbWWooss ddeeppuuttaattii::
_ am etapze biZina ivaniSvi-
lisa da misi politikaSi Car-
Tvis Sesaxeb bevrs verafers
vityvi. erTs mainc aRvniSnav,
rom mainc vfiqrob, saxelmwifo
politikis asparezze
misi gamoCena momgebiani
momentia. me da sxvebic
masSi vxedavT did po-
tencials da albaT,
xvdebiT, rom am poten-
cialSi ar vgulisxmob
mxolod finansur mxa-
res. aseve vimedovneb,
rom misi gamoCena momge-
biani iqneba erT-erTi
iseTi umniSvnelovanesi
sakiTxisaTvis, rogori-
caa qveynis teritoriu-
li mTlianobis aRdgena.
me ivaniSvilisgan ve-
lodebi, rom igi axlo
momavalSi ufro gaSlis am Te-
mas da farTo kuTxiT ganixi-
lavs mas. me, romlisTvisac te-
ritoriuli mTlianoba da ker-
Zod, afxazeTis dabruneba erT-
erTi umTavresi satkivaria, vime-
dovneb, rom male misgan movismen
ufro konkretul da detalur
saubars am faqtoris Sesaxeb.
davamateb, rom visurvebdi,
mis gverdiT menaxa metad erov-
nuli, patriotuli energiiT
savse adamianebi. sworad unda
SearCios Tavisi gundi. yvelaze
erTnairad ver visaubreb. mis
garSemo bevri saintereso da
gulwrfeli adamiania, magram
amave dros vxedavT iseT saxe-
ebsac, romelTa arseboba da aq-
tiuroba saqarTvelos politi-
kuri momavlisTvis miuReblad
mimaCnia. vimedovneb, male SeZ-
lebs gadaafasos bevri ram da
axlo momavalSi gaafarToebs
Tavis gunds, Semoikrebs namd-
vil patriot da saxelmwifoeb-
rivad moazrovne pirovnebebs da
ara politikuri ambiciebiT
Sepyrobilebs. kadrebis SerCe-
vaSi ar unda Secdes. amas udi-
desi mniSvneloba aqvs.
mixeil cagareli,, aassttrr-oollooggii:: ivaniSvili Tavisi po-
litikuri moZraobis oficia-
lurad dafiqsirebas apireb da
ama wlis 25 noembers. am ricx-
vSi jer isev axalmTvareobaa,
ramdenad dadebiTia igi astro-
logiurad?
es momenti kidev erTxel
metyvelebs imaze, rom ivaniS-
vils ar aqvs kavSiri ezoTeri-
kasTan, srulebiT ar icnobs da
ar ecnoba astrologias, Torem
aseT rames araTu urCevda vin-
me, aramed kategoriulad aukr-
Zalavda.
ama wlis 25 no-
emberi marto axal-
mTvareobis perio-
diT ar aris prob-
lematuri; yvelaze
cudi is gaxlavT,
rom amas emateba
mzis dabneleba, rac
gacilebiT ufro am-
Zimebs am periods.
ansamblma `75-ma~ Ce-
mi rCeviT, am dRes
daniSnuli saiubi-
leo koncerti gada-
do 27 ricxvSi. maT
ician amis mniSvne-
loba. radgan axal
mTvares emateba mz-
is dabneleba, ami-
tom es periodi or-
magad cudia. kosmosidan negati-
uri Zalis didi raodenobiT
Semosvla xdeba dedamiwaze. Tu
pirovneba am periodSi axali
saqmianobis wamowyebas an Tun-
dac organizaciis dafuZnebas,
prezentacias, erTi sityviT,
raRacis wamowyebas apirebs, igi
Tavisi xeliT iqmnis dabrkole-
bebs, iwvevs warumateblobas da
winaaRmdegobebs, es iqneba saqmi-
anoba Tu pirad cxovrebaSi ra-
Rac axalis dawyeba.
ra makvirvebs, iciT? yvelas
kargad moexseneba, rom batoni
biZina ivaniSvilis mSobliuri
raioni aris saCxere, sofeli
Worvila. es aris adamiani, ro-
melic gaizarda bunebasTan si-
axloveSi, uyvars buneba da aqe-
dan gamomdinare, bevri ram un-
da icodes. hkiTxos xnier
xalxs, uxucesebs, isini etyvi-
an, auxsnian, ras niSnavs da ro-
goria es periodi Tundac same-
urneo saqmianobisTvis. saqarT-
veloSi axal mTvareze mcenare-
ebs xels ar axlebdnen, am pe-
riodSi moWrili xisgan saxls
ar aSenebdnen, am xis SeSazec ki
sadils ar amzadebdnen... es rac
Seexeba yofiT cxovrebas da
iseTi seriozuli nabijis ga-
dadgma, rogoricaa sazogadoeb-
riv-politikuri organizaciis
dafuZneba, savsebiT miuRebelia,
amaze saerTod ar unda iyos
laparaki.
25 noembris garda me mas ar
vurCevdi 10 dekembers, radgan
am ricxvSi aris mTvaris dabne-
leba. aseve arasasurveli peri-
odia 20 dekembridan 25 dekem-
bramde, radgan am dros mze
dgas, mzebudobas rom uwodeben
is droa. sxa danarCen ricxveb-
Si astrologiuri Tvalsazri-
siT, arCevani Tavisufalia.
mmooaammzzaaddaa
Tamuna qadagiZem
avTandil ungiaZe,, mmaarr-
TTllmmaaddiiddeebbeell mmSSoobbeellTTaa kkaavvSSii-
rriiss TTaavvmmjjddoommaarree::
_ Cemi azriT, biZina ivaniS-
vils politikaSi CarTva ukve
karga xnis gadawyvetili hqonda.
aseve mas eqneboda molaparakebe-
bi am sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT
sxvadasxva ZalebTan, sxvadasxva
doneze. amaSi darwmunebuli
var, gamomdinare Tundac iqedan,
rom arCevani gaakeTa respubli-
kur partiaze. es albaT, dasav-
leTis miTiTebiT moxda.
imaSi rom, man moindoma po-
litikur asparezze gamosvla,
cudi araferia, piriqiT, pers-
peqtiulia qveynisTvis da ime-
dis momcemi, Tu yvelafers
swori mimarTuleba miecema. am
etapzec ukve gamoiRo dadebiTi
Sedegi, mmarTveli partiis
moqmedebebi Serbilda. mTa-
varia, droTa ganmavlobaSi
sacdurs gauZlos. Cven,
farTo sazogadoeba mas
vicnobT, rogorc qvelmoq-
meds, mecenats, magram ro-
gori iqneba Tu xelisuf-
lebaSi movida? am kiTxva-
ze axla SeuZlebelia pa-
suxis gacema. swored xe-
lisuflebaSi mosvlis me-
re iwyeba xolme cduneba
da Secdomebi, pirovnebis
gakerpeba da samwuxarod,
xSirad saxeze gvaqvs arqi-
fos sindromi. es aRar un-
da moxdes, erT kacSi ar unda
vxedavdeT gadarCenis gzas. xe-
lisufleba unda gadanawildes
ise, rom erT pirovnebas ar mi-
eces yvelafris ufleba. sazo-
gadoebam unda gaviTvaliswi-
noTs gamocdileba da igive
Secdomebi ar unda davuSvaT.
18 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
erTi periodi iseTi STabeW-
dileba iqmneboda, TiTqos saqar-
Tvelos gza 2012 wlis sapar-
lamento arCevnebisken uSfoTve-
li da gansakuTrebuli movlene-
bisgan daclili iqneboda. prezi-
dent mixeil saakaSvilis sul
ufro daundobeli „erTiani na-
cionaluri moZraoba“ ganuxre-
lad miiwevda damajerebeli
triumfisken danawevrebuli da
didwilad upasuxismgeblo opo-
ziciis winaaRmdeg.
magram am dros miliarderi
biZina ivaniSvili gamoCnda.
„es arCevnebi absoluturad
gansxvavebuli iqneba da saakaS-
vils da mis xalxs ar unda
hqondes iluzia, rom Zveli is-
toria ganmeordeba“, – ganacxada
55 wlis karCaketilma finansit-
ma mas Semdeg, rac gasul TveSi
moulodnelad uari Tqva ganmar-
toebul cxovrebaze Tavis so-
fel WorvilaSi, raTa politi-
kaSi monawileobaze ganacxadi
gaekeTebina. „Cemi azriT, dRes
realoba iseTia, rom saakaSvils
xmas sakuTari dedac ar mis-
cems“.
man ganacxada aseve, rom „Za-
lian kargad icis, Tu rogor Za-
ladobs saakaSvili aramxolod
qarTvel xalxze, aramed mis ax-
lo garemocvazec. saakaSvili
ver SeZlebs im raodenobis xme-
bis mopovebas, rac gayalbebisT-
vis aucilebelia“.
Worviladan scenaze gamoCe-
nis Semdeg, ramdenime kviraSi,
ivaniSvilma moZraoba „qarTuli
ocneba“ daafuZna, romelic misi
TqmiT, momaval arCevnebSi gai-
marjvebs.
radio `Tavisuflebis“ dRi-
urebSi ivaniSvili ambobs, rom
„ar iyo ioli gadawyvetileba“
CarTuliyo politikur brZola-
Si, magram am nabijisken mas „qv-
eynis mZime mdgomareobam“ ubiZga.
Ria sezoni
kampania Tavidan erTgvari
dabrkolebebiT daiwyo. ivaniSvi-
li pozicias nel-nela imkvid-
rebda. da pirveli noembris
preskonferencia qaosSi gadai-
zarda, rodesac reportiorebi
kiTxvebs gahyvirodnen, maSin,
roca ivaniSvili da misi pres-
mdivani irakli tripolski mTe-
li ZaliT cdilobdnen situaci-
is gakontrolebas.
CanasaxSi myofi kampania (da
Tavad ivaniSvili) saakaSvilma
da misma mxardamWerebma kriti-
kis, zogjer daufaravi Tavdasx-
mebis qarcecxlSi moaqcies, miu-
xedavad imisa, rom Tavad prezi-
dents ivaniSvilis saxelic ki
ar uxsenebia.
pirvel rigSi, saakaSvilis
mTavrobam mas Semdeg, rac iva-
niSvilma sajarod ganacxada,
rom apirebs uari Tqvas safran-
geTis da ruseTis moqalaqeoba-
ze, mas saqarTvelos moqalaqeo-
ba CamoarTva. is saakaSvilis
gankargulebas asaCivrebs, magram
Tuki araferi Seicvala, mas ka-
noni ar miscems arc kenWisyris
da arc raime politikuri moZ-
raobis marTvis an dafinansebis
uflebas.
amasTanave, policiam misi
„qarTu bankis“ filialSi reidi
moawyo da is fulis gaTeTreba-
Si daadanaSaula. ivaniSvili sa-
xelmwifo mediis Jurnalistebs
misi pirveli preskonferenciis
sabotaJis mcdelobaSi adanaSau-
lebs.
saakaSvilis mxardamWerebi,
magaliTad, deputati „erTiani
nacionaluri moZraobidan“ gi-
orgi gabaSvili, saxelmwifos
mier kontrolirebad televizi-
ebs im ideis tiraJirebisTvis
iyenebs, rom ivaniSvili mosko-
vis marionetia.
„ruseTSi ramdenime miliard
dolarad Sefasebuli qonebis
floba da marTva aucileblad
miuTiTebs am adamianis axlo
kavSirebze kremlTan“, – ambobs
gabaSvili. „da rodesac am kav-
Siris mqone figura politikaSi
Semodis, ra Tqma unda, es faq-
tori xdeba. aravin aris iseTi
gulubryvilo daijeros, rom
viRac saqarTvelos politikur
cxovrebaSi aqtiurdeba, aqvs mi-
liardebi ruseTSi da am faq-
tors ar iTvaliswinebs“.
ivaniSvilma ganacxada, rom
is ruseTSi sakuTari aqtivebis
gayidvas apirebs.
sayovelTao
mxardaWera
Tavdasxmebma, rogorc Cans
mxolod ganamtkices karCaker-
tili miliarderisadmi mxarda-
Wera. ivaniSvilisadmi solida-
robis niSnad, magaliTad, marto
erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi, daax-
loebiT 5 000-ma adamianma gaxs-
na angariSi „qarTu bankSi“.
xelisuflebas gangaSis sa-
fuZveli marTlac aqvs: ivaniSvi-
li saSualo kalibris miliar-
deri ar aris. saqarTvelos um-
didresi kaci ivaniSvili, rom-
lis qonebac Forbes-is TanaxmaddaaxloebiT 5,5 miliardi do-
laria, dRemde sajaro yuradRe-
bas gaurboda. man Tavisi qoneba
ruseTSi 1990-ian wlebSi daag-
rova, magram 10 welia, rac sa-
qarTveloSi dabrunda da Tavis
mSobliur sofel WorvilaSi
dasaxlda, romelic Tbilisidan
dasavleTiT daaxloebiT, 150 ki-
lometrSi mdebareobs.
manamde, man mxolod erTi
vrceli interviu misca ruseTis
yoveldRiur biznesgazeT „vedo-
mostis“ 2005 wels. am intervi-
uSi is xazs usvams Tavis sur-
vils pirad cxovrebaze: „me
calsaxad ar var sajaro adami-
ani“, – ambobs igi, „magram es Ce-
mi xasiaTia. ar miyvars Jurna-
listebTan Sexvedra, sajaro
movlenebSi an RonisZiebebSi mo-
nawileoba. aseT adgilebSi gi-
wevs niRbis gakeTeba, me ki for-
malobebs ver vitan. cxovreba
moklea – ar minda sakuTari Ta-
visuflebis SezRudva. marTlac
ar miyvars yuradRebis centrSi
yofna. ar miyvars zeimebi da sa-
kuTar dabadebis dResac ki aras-
dros vixdi“.
magram wlebis ganmavlobaSi
is usaqmod ar mjdara. ivaniS-
vilma Seqmna saqvelmoqmedo
fondi, romelic Cumad xarjavda
milionebs proeqtebze, romle-
bic didwilad qarTuli kultu-
ris mxardaWerisken iyo mimar-
Tuli. man aRadgina eklesiebi da
Teatrebi mTeli qveynis masSta-
biT. is pensiebs uxdis qarTvel
akademikosebs da kulturis
moRvaweebs.
SarSan, Jurnal Prospect-Sigamoqveynebul mis profilSi,
bevri iseTi adamiani saubrobs,
romlebsac is daexmara da rom-
lebic ambobdnen, rom arasdros
unaxavT ivaniSvili da masTan
aranairi pirdapiri kontaqti ar
hqoniaT. misi saxeli ar hqvia
arcerT proeqts, romelic man
daafinansa.
is gansakuTrebulad guluxvi
iyo Worvilas mimarT, sadac ga-
naaxla saxlebi da sajaro Seno-
bebi, aRadgina gzebi da aaSena Ta-
namedrove saavadmyofo, sadac ad-
gilobriv mosaxleobas ufasod
emsaxurebian; is pensiis danamats
da yovelTviur premiebs uxdis
eqimebs da pedagogebs. 2009
wlamde, man komunaluri gadasa-
xadebi 60 000 moqalaqes daufa-
ra. Prospect-is Tanaxmad, sakuTarqalaqSi is 2000 dolars gas-
cems iseT xarjebze, rogoric
qorwili da dakrZalvaa. Tumca,
kritikosebma is imaSi daadanaSa-
ules, rom aseTi qmedebebiT man
adamianebi masze damokidebulni
gaxada da iniciativa CauxSo.
Sereuli reaqciebi
qarTul politikur brZo-
laSi CarTvis dRidan ivaniSvi-
li acxadebs, rom misi erTader-
Ti mizani sistemuri reforme-
bis gatarebaa, rac saqarTvelos
miscems SesaZleblobas ganviTa-
rdes, rogorc Tavisufali baz-
ris demokratiuli qveyana. man
ganacxada, rom ar unda prezi-
dentoba da Tanamdebobaze mxo-
lod ori-sami wliT darCenas
apirebs da sjera, rom reforme-
bisTvis es sakmarisi droa. amis
Semdeg mas saqvelmoqmedo saqmi-
anobasTan dabruneba unda.
opoziciuri partiis `Tavi-
sufali demokratebis“ xelmZR-
vaneli irakli alasania, rome-
lic ivaniSvilma potenciur po-
litikur partniorad daasaxe-
la, miesalma ivaniSvilis poli-
tikur scenaze gamoCenas.
„qarTul sazogadoebas didi
xnis ganmavlobaSi aklda aseTi
debatebi, aseTi gulwrfeli sa-
ubari“, – ambobs alasania. „vfiq-
rob dRes b-nma ivaniSvilma Za-
lian mkafiod da gulwrfelad
uTxra sazogadoebas ratom mii-
Ro man es gadawyvetileba da ra-
tom CaerTo politikaSi, ra ar-
is misi mTavari mizani – mis
partniorebTan erTad. Cven gvin-
da, rom am qveyanaSi bolos da
bolos konkurenciis namdvili
SesaZlebloba gaCndes – konku-
renciis politikasa da biznesSi.
da vfiqrob, qarTulma sazoga-
doebam es Zalian cxadad da mka-
fiod dainaxa“.
sxvebi aseTi darwmunebuli
ar arian. levan vefxvaZe, parla-
mentis vice-spikeri opoziciuri
partia „qristian-demokratebi-
dan“, romelsac xelisuflebis-
gan farTo mxardaWera aqvs, iva-
niSvilis debiutiT presaSi mo-
xibluli ar aris.
„me ver vityvi, rom damrCa
STabeWdileba, TiTqos Cven saqme
gvaqvs seriozul politikos-
Tan“, – ambobs vefxvaZe. „dam-
wyebTaTvis, politika Zalian
gansxvavdeba biznesisgan. rogo-
rc Cans, mis irgvliv menejmen-
tic Zalian sustia. guSin Zali-
an bevri adamiani mirekavda da
meubneboda, „am kacma SeiZleba
milionebi gaakeTa, magram ver
moaxerxa erTi preskonferenciis
organizeba, rogor apirebs is
mTeli qveynis marTvas?“ ro-
gorc Cans, es aris STabeWdile-
ba, romelic sazogadoebis erT
segments gauCnda“.
ivaniSvilis poziciebi nela
da Tanmimdevrulad yalibdeba.
is upiratesobas aniWebs saqar-
Tvelos kurs evropuli integ-
raciisken, magram darwmunebu-
lia, rom ruseTTan urTierTo-
bebis gaumjobeseba SesaZlebeli
da savaldebuloa. imavdrou-
lad, is acxadebs, rom saqarT-
velos sxva „alternativa ar
aqvs“, Tu ara natos wevrobis-
ken swrafva.
politikuri axalbeda?
magram ivaniSvilis mTavari
aqcenti sistemuri reformis
gaRrmavebazea. „Cven unda da-
viwyoT namdvilad damoukidebe-
li sasamarTlos Seqmnis proce-
si – da es procesi Seuqcevadi
unda gaxdes“, – ambobs ivaniSvi-
li. „media unda iyos Tavisufa-
li. Cven unda SevqmnaT garemo,
romelic mimzidveli iqneba in-
vestorebisTvis. samuSao adgi-
lebis Seqmna mudmivi dakvirve-
bis da Cveni politikis centra-
luri mizani iqneba“.
zogierTi misi werilobiTi
gancxadebis safuZvelze, kriti-
kosebs SeiZleba gauCndeT sur-
vili daaskvnan, rom ivaniSvils
yvela problemis gadaWris gzad
fulis gacema miaCnia. is ori
telearxis yidvis iniciativiT
gamovida, romlebic man daaadana-
Saula imaSi, rom maT saakaSvi-
li akontrolebs, maSin rodesac
Tavad sruli saredaqcio damou-
kidebloba, xolo saxelmwifo
mediaSi momuSave yvela Jurna-
lists, romelic moisurvebs Se-
uerTdes mis kampanias, dasaqmeba
SesTavaza.
imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom
misi moqalaqeobis sakiTxi kvlav
Riad rCeba (miuxedavad imisa,
rom ivaniSvilis TqmiT, mas aqvs
sarezervo gegma Tuki moqalaqe-
obas ver daibrunebs) jer kidev
ucnobia, ra rols iTamaSebs is
moaxloebul kampaniaSi.
opoziciuri partia „axali
memarjveneebis“ wevri fiqria
CixraZe imaze swuxs, rom ivaniS-
vili gamoucdelia. „amboben, er-
Tia, gqondes politikuri ga-
mocdileba, rodesac saqme exeba
Sens urTierTobas mediasTan,
magram rodesac adamiani aseT
did ambiciebs avlens, mas zogi-
erT sakiTxze unda hqondes mka-
fiod formulirebuli pozi-
cia“, – ambobs igi.
„erTi mxriv, me momwons, ro-
desac is ambobs, rom yvelaferi
ar icis da bevri ramis swavla
sWirdeba. magram rodesac saqme
fundamentur sakiTxebs exeba –
is am SemTxvevaSic ki acxadebs,
rom maTze mogvianebiT ifiqrebs
da specialistebTan erTad gani-
xilavs. es me ar momwons“, – am-
bobs CixraZe. „iseTi STabeWdi-
leba rCeba, rom erTaderTi, rac
man danamdvilebiT icis, aris is,
rom parlamentSi umravlesobas
moipovebs; yvela danarCen sa-
kiTxs mogvianebiT gadawyvets“.
„radio Tavisuflebis“ dRi-
urebSi ivaniSvili aRiarebs,
rom jer kidev bevri ram unda
iswavlos politikaze: „me mWir-
deba realuri gamoxmaureba da
kritika imisTvis, rom ar davuS-
va Secdomebi momavalSi“.
robert kolsoni: robert kolsoni:
saqarTvelos karCaketili, umdidresi adamiani saakaSvilis politikur
scenars arRvevs
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
19saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
mmmmssssoooofffflllliiiioooo pppprrrreeeessssiiiissss mmmmiiiixxxxeeeeddddvvvviiiiTTTTmiliarderi biZina ivaniSvi-
li ambobs, rom miuxedavad yve-
lafrisa, igi politikur mxar-
daWeras moipovebs. damkvirveb-
lebi acxadeben, rom maT uCnde-
baT kiTxvebi im meTodebis mi-
marT, romlebiTac saqarTvelos
mTavroba biZina ivaniSvilis po-
litikuri sarbielidan Camoci-
lebas cdilobs.
ivaniSvili, romlis qoneba,
`forbsis~ monacemebiT, wlis
dasawyisSi 5,5 miliard dola-
rad aris Sefasebuli, adrian
Semodgomaze xelisuflebis
warmomadgenlebs daupirispirda
_ sazogadoebas gaacno gegmebi,
Tu rogor apirebs 2012 wlis
saparlamento arCevnebSi prezi-
dent mixeil saakaSvilis admi-
nistraciis damarcxebas.
praqtikulad maSinve, fran-
guli pasportis qonis gamo, mas
saqarTvelos moqalaqeoba Camo-
arTves. mTavrobis momxreebi
ivaniSvils bralad sdeben krem-
lTan kavSirs, prokuraturam ki
misi megobrebisa da kolegebis
mimarT oTxi saqme aRZra:
TbilisSi daapatimra misi
biznes-warmomadgeneli ruseTSi
valeri levini;
fulis gaTeTrebis motiviT
daakaves ivaniSvilis kuTvnili
bankis TanamSromlebi. marTalia,
isini maleve gaaTavisufles,
Tumca saqme ar dauxuravT. amo-
iRes didi odenobis naRdi fu-
li, romelic dRemde ar daub-
runebiaT.
imave dRes narkotikebis Se-
naxvis sababiT ivaniSvilis vaJis
megobari daakaves;
iaraRis ukanono tarebis
braldebiT daakaves fond `qar-
Tus~ Tavmjdomaris simamri...
advokatTa gancxadebiT, iva-
niSvili mis winaaRmdeg agore-
buli ukanono kampaniis msxver-
plia. axla isini iRvwian moqa-
laqeobis aRsadgenad, uromli-
sodac biZina ivaniSvili
politikur saqmianobas
piradad ver gaagrZe-
lebs.
saakaSvili da misi
xelisuflebis maRalCi-
nosnebi presasTan yo-
velTvis TanamSromlo-
ben, magram amjerad ara-
nair komentars ar ake-
Teben politikaSi gaCe-
nili axali personis
Sesaxeb da amis SesaZ-
leblobas mmarTveli
gundis _ erTiani naci-
onaluri moZraobis wa-
rmomadgenel parlamen-
tarebs aZleven. isinic,
yovelgvari xelCasaWidi
argumentaciis gareSe,
ivaniSvils moskovTan siaxlove-
Si sdeben brals.
politikosTa umravlesoba,
isinic ki, vinc ivaniSvils ar
wyalobs, gadawyvetilebas moqa-
laqeobis CamorTmevis Sesaxeb
erTgvarad politikur angariS-
sworebad afaseben.
`ivaniSvilis mimarT mTavro-
bis taqtika aSkaraa _ igi agre-
siul nabijebs dgams da ivaniS-
vils radikaluri da agresiuli
moqmedebebis, quCis aqciebisken
ubiZgebs. xelisuflebis warmo-
madgenlebs urCevniaT `quCis po-
litika~, radganac aseT dros
maT nebismier oponentTan Seda-
rebiT upiratesoba gaaCniaT~, _
acxadebs qristian-demokratTa
lider giorgi TargamaZe.
ivaniSvilma erT-erT inter-
viuSi aRiara, rom xelisufle-
bam rTul mdgomareobaSi Caaye-
na, Tumca mas veraferi SeaCe-
rebs:
`rasakvirvelia, politikaSi
moumzadebeli movedi. garkveul-
wilad, ver vaxerxeb mobilize-
bas da gundis Camoyalibebas. xe-
lisuflebis moufiqrebel nabi-
jebze mudmivi reagireba da bev-
ri sxva ram probleebs miqmnis
da xels miSlis calkeuli eta-
pebis swrafad organizebaSi,
magram TandaTan me amas SevZleb.
me arc ise cudad vreagireb xe-
lisufalTaAdaufiqrebel nabi-
jebze~. misive TqmiT, axlandeli
adminisrtacia kraxis safrTxis
winaSe dgas da man Sesadareb-
lad libiaSi muamar kadafis re-
Jimis damxoba moiyvana.
biZina ivaniSvili acxadebs,
rom igi Seecdeba, saqarTvelos
rogorme aacilos `kadafiza-
cia~, daswios temperatura da
Tavi aaridos konfrontacias.
qarTuli mediisTvis mice-
mul interviuSi kolumbiis uni-
versitetis profesori, eqsper-
ti saqarTvelos sakiTxebSi
linkoln mitCeli acxadebs, rom
xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs
eSiniaT ivaniSvilis, radganac
misma simdidrem SesaZloa, misi
politikuri warmateba uzrun-
velyos. `es imas niSnavs, rom
mas SeuZlia Seqmnas sakuTari
telearxi da Secvalos qveyana-
Si viTareba~, _ dasZens mitCe-
li.
misive azriT, ivaniSvilma
Tavisi politikuri momxreebi
Zalzed gonovrulad SearCia.
erT-erTi maTgani partia Tavi-
sufali demokratebis lideri
irakli alasaniaa.
`savaraudod, CrdilSi myo-
fi politikosebi wina planze
gamovlen _ es maTi Sansia. ala-
sanias msgavs politikosebs Se-
uZliaT brZola da mediaklima-
tis Secvla~, _ acxadebs eqs-
perti.
Institute War&Peace Reporting
egviptis dedaqalaqSi saprotesto
talRis xelaxla agorebis Semdeg,
arc samxedroebma, arc `axalgazrda
revolucionerebma da arc politi-
kurma Zalebma ar ician, rogor daam-
Svidon qveyana. axlandeli quCis bata-
liebi gagrZelebaa im aqciebisa, rom-
lebic 25 ianvars daiwyo da arsebi-
Tad 11 Tebervals mubaraqis damxobiT
ar dasrulebula. saqme is gaxlavT,
rom generlebma axalgazrda aqtivis-
tebs mohpares gamarjveba, romelic,
maTi azriT, ukve xelT aqvT. sinam-
dvileSi, mubaraqis reJimi ar dam-
xobila, man mxolod garegnuli
ieri icvala. revolucienerTa Sec-
domaa, rom maT ar hyavT politiku-
ri lideri, ar gaaCniaT politiku-
ri programa da eqspertizis unaric
ar SeswevT. guSindel revolucio-
nerebs ar ZaluZT warmatebis miRwe-
va politikuri fazis meore etapze
da am revoluciis tragizmi swored
es aris: reJimis mowinaaRmdegebs
araferi gaaCniaT imis garda, rom
sistemis daSla surT.
samxedroebisa da sazogadoebis
`Taflobis Tve~ dasrulda. manifes-
tantebi iTxoven samxedro xuntis ga-
dadgomas, erovnuli gadarCenis mTav-
robis Camoyalibebas da saprezidento
arCevnebis daniSvnas ara 2013, aramed
2012 wlis gazafxulze. mubaraqis
Semdeg Seqmnili 35 partia `saokeano~
manifestacias gegmavs _ liderebma ga-
dawyvites, manifestantebs `cocxal
farad~ daudgnen. 28 noembrisTvis da-
niSnul arCevnebSi gamarjvebis moime-
de islamistebi lodinis pozicias am-
jobineben. qveyanaSi Seqmnili qaosi
xmis micemas safrTxes uqmnis.
orSabaTs egviptis mTavrobam qvey-
nis droebiT mmarTvel organos _ Se-
iaraRebuli Zalebis umaRles sabWos
gadadgomis Sesaxeb Txovna warudgina,
ityobineba The New York Times. es mas
mere moxda, rac quCis saprotesto aq-
ciebis gasaneitralebel RonisZiebebs
adamianTa msxverpli mohyva. egviptis
momavali axlac iseTive burusiTaa
moculi, rogorc `arabuli gazafxu-
lis~ pirvel dReebSi iyo.
am mTavrobas, mubaraqis Canacvle-
bis Semdeg, gardamtexi politikuri
epoqisTvis Sesaferi roli unda Sees-
rulebina. `islamistebi imedovnebdnen,
rom igi maleve moaxerxebda arCevnebis
daniSvnas, romelzec maTi momxreebi
gaimarjvebdnen. liberalebi ki, piri-
qiT fiqrobdnen da mTavroba islamis-
tTa Zlierebis sapirwoned miaCndaT.
obamas administracia maTSi partnio-
rebs xedavda da imedovnebda kidec,
rom amerikuli interesebis erTgulni
iqnebodnen~, _ vkiTxulobT werilSi.
TumcaRa, mTavrobis Txovna gadad-
gomis Sesaxeb morigi dartyma aRmoCn-
da SeiaraRebuli Zalebis umaRlesi
sabWosTvis, romlis legitimuroba
isedac ar iyo myari. Tan, es xdeba mu-
baraqis gadayenebis Semdgom daniSnul
pirvel saparalmento arCevnebamde er-
Ti kviriT adre.
islamisturi moZraoba `musulman-
Ta saZmo~ demonstrantebs mouwodeb-
da TavSekavebisken, raTaAarCevnebis Ta-
riRi ar Secvliliyo. sxva islamiste-
bi ki _ konservatorebica da `zomie-
rebic~ _ sekularul partiebTan er-
Tad `milionTa marSSi~ monawileoben
da samxedroebisgan samoqalaqo admi-
nistraciisTvis Zalauflebis gadaba-
rebas iTxoven.
egviptis jandacvis saministros
informaciiT, kairoSi samdRiani Seta-
kebebisas 30-mde adamiania daRupuli,
1500-ze meti _ dazaralebuli. yvela
politikuri Zala arCevnebis daniS-
nul dros Catarebas emxroba, Tumca
kerZo saubrebSi gamoTqvamen vara-
uds, rom areulobebis gamo SesaZ-
loa igi gadaitanon. ar aris gamo-
ricxuli, am ambavma kidev ufro ga-
amZafros isedac daZabuli viTare-
ba.
imavdroulad, politikosebi ka-
maToben imis Sesaxebac, Tu rogori
unda iyos samxedroebisgan samoqa-
laqoebisTvis Zalauflebis gadace-
mis meqanizmi.
`musulmanTa saZmo~ jerjero-
biT ise iqceva, TiTqos arCevnebi ar
gadaideba. isini tahriris moedanze
ar gamosulan da xalxis gverdiT
ar damdgaran. maT mzamzareulze mos-
vla surT~, _ sayvedurs gamoTqvamen
kairoelebi.
zogierTi liberaluri partia mo-
iTxovs, samxedroebma dauyovnebliv
gadascen Zalaufleba samoqalaqo `e-
ris gadarCenis mTavrobas~. am inicia-
tivis avtoria prezidentobis kandi-
dati muhamed al-baradei. sxva libe-
ralTa azriT, sakmarisi iqneboda, ax-
landeli mTavroba CaenacvlebinaT sa-
moqalaqo pirebiT dakompleqtebuli
axali gundiT, romelsac SeiaraRebu-
li Zalebis umaRlesi sabWosgan damo-
ukideblad SeeZleboda gadawyvetile-
bebis miReba.
The New York TimesLa Stampa
Suddeutsche Zeitung
saqarTvelos xelisufleba cdilobs, biznesmens `frTebi Seakvecos~
internetmimoxilva moamzada
gulbaaT WavWavaZem.
revoluciis tragizmiprotesti mZafrdeba, egviptis mTavroba gadadga
`rusuli ucxouri legioni~ _ Tavxeduri
da carieli ideanatoSi ruseTis elCis dmitri rogozinis
CanafiqriT, `rusuli ucxouri legioni~ unda
gaxdes ruseTis SeiaraRebuli Zalebis nawili
da legionSi unda imsaxuron bulgarelebma da
serbebma, wers avtori werilisa, romelic da-
ibeWda gamocemaSi L’Occidentale.`im momentSi, roca 22 aTasi serbi Txov-
niT mimarTavs ruseTs, mas balkanebisTvis sak-
maod eqstremaluri idea uCndeba. misi avtoria
natoSi ruseTis elCi rogozini, romelic
`rusuli ucxouri legionis~ Seqmnas imisTvis
iTxovs, rom aRmosavleT evropis qveynebSi ax-
leburi pozicia gaimyaron~, _ wers gamocema.
`rac Seexeba batalions, igi unda gaxdes
rusuli armiis nawili da franguli ucxouri
legionis msgavsad Camoyalibdes. rogozinis
TqmiT, es unda iyos `slavuri~ legioni, rom-
lis SemadgenlobaSi ruseTis moqalaqeobamiRe-
buli serbebi da bulgarelebi iqnebian. ambo-
ben, rom rogozinma am ideis Sesaxeb ruseTis
Tavdacvis ministr anatoli serdiukovTan im-
sjela~, _ wers werilis avtori.
`ruseTis sazogadoebriv-politikuri cen-
tris direqtori darwmunebulia, rom erov-
nul safuZvelze samxedro qvedanayofebis Ca-
moyalibeba SesaZloa, Zalzed saxifaTo aRmoC-
ndes. bulgaruli gamocema `dRiuris~ cnobiT,
bulgareTis sagareo saqmeTa saministro uars
acxadebs, rame komentari gaakeTos rogozinis
axal ideaze.
L Occidentale
20 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
ramdenime dRis win quTaisis meriam miiRo ga-
dawyvetileba mSenebare parlamentis, samTavrobo
da iusticiis saxlebis mimdebare teritoriaze
mravalsarTuliani korpusebis ezoebSi sadamsje-
lo RonisZiebebi Caetarebina da iq ganTavsebuli
kanonier sakuTrebaSi myofi Tu aseve unebarTvod
aSenebuli avtofarexebi miwasTan gaesworebina.
Sarval-kostumebSi gamowyobili adgilobrivi
samsaxurebi mosaxleobas Sexvdnen da 2-dRiani va-
da misces? sakuTari ZalebiT demontaJi moexdinaT
rogorc kapitaluri nagebobebis, ise liTonis kon-
struqciebisgan awyobili farexebis. winaaRmdeg
SemTxvevaSi, meriis warmomadgenlebi Tavad uzrun-
velyofdnen mZime teqnikis miyvanas adgilze da Tan
2000-2000 lariT daajarimebdnen mepatroneebs.
miuxedavad imisa, rom abaSiZis gamziri, rome-
lic ukve saqarTvelos parlamentis quTaisSi gad-
motanis Semdeg prestiJul dasaxlebad iqca, sadac
sacxovrebeli binebis fasmac katastrofulad mo-
imata, didi SesaZleblobis macxovreblebiT dasax-
lebuli ar aris. ZiriTadad, saSualo da saSua-
loze dabali Semosavlebis mobinadreebisaTvis, me-
riis mxridan gacemuli brZaneba - dajarimebuliy-
vnen 2000 lariT, maT saarsebo minimums 12-jer ma-
inc aRemateba. amitom iyo, rom meriis sadamsjelo
mstovrebs adgilobrivi mosaxleoba daupirispir-
da. Sexla-Semoxlis Semdeg sapatrulo ekipaJic
gamoiZaxes, rom situacia ar garTulebuliyo. bo-
los SeTanxmdnen, mosaxleoba sakuTari ZaliT
a i R e b d a
avtofare-
xebs da gahyidda mainc, rom cota mainc esargeb-
la. Tavis mxriv, xelisufleba, meore dRidanve
ezoebis galamazebaze izrunebda.
mas Semdeg ukve kvira gavida da jerjerobiT
adgilobriv mTavrobas dangreuli da nagvis kerad-
qceuli adgilebi arc mounaxulebia. mxolod man-
qanidan SeaTvalieres, Turme zedamxedvelobis sam-
saxuris warmomadgenlebma da manqanidanve gadasZa-
xes iq Sekrebil xalxs: `ase ar jobia?! dagvije-
rebT – meigebT, ar dagvijerebT – waagebT!” am mo-
geba-wagebaSi ki quTaisis merias daaviwyda, rom
abaSiZis gamziri meore dResve hqonda mosawesrige-
beli. marTalia, erT dReSi ver daasrulebda, mag-
ram sarekonstruqcio samuSaoebis dawyeba SeeZlo.
ra mosatania, magram, roca xelisufali `raRa-
cas” angrevs da iq aseve `raRacis” aSenebas geg-
mavs, naklebad unda gvjerodes amis, radgan maga-
liTad, e.w. ninoSvilis skveric gamodgeba, rome-
lic bolos rodis gaiwminda nagvisgan, mosaxleo-
ba ver ixsenebs. skvers ar gaaCnia Zelskamebi da ga-
naTebis boZebi, mxolod epidemiis keraa da ambici-
ur pretenzias `sufTa qalaqze” naklebad akmayo-
filebs, Sesabamisad, roca “gasakeTebels” ver amC-
nev da skverSi, narevolucievi da “napatimrali”
cxvar-Zroxa giZovs balax-bulaxs, iqve cocxali
pirutyvis bazridan, modi da dagvajeros adgilob-
rivma mTavrobam, rom im avtofarexebis nangrevebze
raimes sasikeTos aSenebas apirebs.
miuxedavad didi mcdelobisa, aseve xangrZlivi
lodinisa, Tu ra pozicia aqvs jer am sadamsjelo
`operacia-garaJTan” quTaisis merias, an Tundac
axla, ̀ naxirosimal~ abaSiZis gamzirze ras gegmavs,
oficialurad gaurkvevli rCeba. meriis pressamsa-
xuri mxolod ramdenime winadadebiT Semoifargla:
__ kkiinnoo `̀ssuulliikkoossTTaann,,”” mmeerriiiiss nneebbaarrTTvviiTT mmoossaaxx-
lleeoobbaass aavvttooffaarreexxeebbii ddaaaannggrreevviinneess,, mmaarrTTaalliiaa,, bbeevv-
rrii uunneebbaarrTTvvoo iiyyoo,, bbeevvrriicc kkaannoonniieerr ssaakkuuTTrreebbaaSSii
mmqqoonnee,, mmaaggrraamm ddRReess rraa xxddeebbaa iiqq,, rraa kkeeTTddeebbaa??
_ ui, ar vici... gavikiTxav!
vikiTxav, visac eqneba komentari, mailze mome-
ci, an skaipSi kiTxvebi da pasuxebs mogawvdiT,
vinc gvipasuxebs, arqiteqtura iqneba Tu adminis-
traciuli zedamxedvelobis samsaxurebi.
-kkaarrggii,, ddaaggeellooddeebbii......
_ magram, jer ar vici, vinme Tu moindomebs ko-
mentaris gakeTebas!~
rogorc mosalodneli iyo, meriaSi Tema yurs
miRma gaatares. samagierod, mosaxleobasTan Sex-
vedris dros, nangrevebTan `̀TTaavviissuuffaallii ssaaqqaarrTTvvee-
llooss”” adgilobrivi lideri da eqs-parlamentari
ggooggii wwuullaaiiaa dagvxda da komentaric gaakeTa:
`_ es aris barbarosoba, esaa komunizmSi dab-
runeba, isini utevdnen kerZo sakuTrebas da im
gzas mihyveba saakaSvilis reJimi. romel kapita-
lizmzea saubari, adamianebis uflebebs fexqveS Te-
laven.
__ rraa iinnffoorrmmaacciiaass fflloobbTT,, rraa uunnddaa ggaakkeeTTddeess aamm
aaddggiillzzee??
_ me ramdenadac vici da ukve aqtiurad gamo-
Jona informaciam, radgan mimdebare teritoriaze
Sendeba parlamenti, iusticiis saxli da Zalaune-
burad es ubani garda gamococxlebisa, ekonomiku-
ri TvalsazrisiTac datvirTuli iqneba, adgilob-
rivi xelisufleba gegmavs komerciuli farTebis
aSenebas. sanam arian xelisuflebaSi, ratomac ar
daikanoneben ekonomikur wertilebs. ra mniSvnelo-
ba aqvs sidedrebis Tu sidedris debis, an Cemi me-
zoblis-cialas saxelze daaregistrireben? rode-
sac modis meria, geubneba Cems mier gacemuli qo-
nebis damadasturebeli dokumenti erT adgilze
gairWve, es teiroria Cven gvWirdeba da unda da-
vangrioTo, miTxariT erTi, es saxelmwifoa? mova
dro, aivseba am xalxis moTminebis fiala da miSas
da mis biWebs gaurWoben marTla erT adgilze sa-
arCevnod Camorigebul biuletenebs da mere naxos
am xelisuflebam xuTianze moxazva!”
miwasTan mosworebuli avtofarexebis nangre-
vebTan Sekrebili xalxi, romlebic adgilobrivi
mTavrobis am moulodnel gadawyvetilebas erTma-
neTSi ganixilavda, JurnalistebTan saubars gaur-
bian:
_ ara, Svilo, raRac, maTxovrul pensias maZ-
leven, isic ar Semiwyviton. 83 wlis kacs patro-
ni ki ar myavs? movardnen, ar daangrevT TqveniT,
Cven movaxtebiT traqtors da migilewavT yvela-
ferso. ra unda gveqna? is ori kapikic ar davkar-
geT, jarTSi CavabareT `garaJebi.” vzivarT axla am
nagavSi, virTxebi dagvesia da vTamaSobT dominos.
dRes glaxa fexze avdeqi, sul `pusta-pustaSi”
var..._wuwunebda yvelaze asakovani `zastaveli.”
_ marto dRes ki araa, rac miSa mevida, sul
`pustaSi” ar varT? ramdeni gvaq saTqmeli, mara 37
welze uaresia axla. quTaisis saSveli arasdros
ar iyo da arc iqneba-saubarSi CaerTo dominos
partniori mezobeli.
__ rraattoomm?? uubbaannSSii ggaavvlleenniiaannii `̀mmeezzoobblleebbii”” ggeeyyoo-
lleebbaaTT –– ppaarrllaammeennttii,, iiuussttiicciiaa,, mmTTaavvrroobbiiss ssaaxxllii......
_
_ au, TbilisSi Tu iyo aqamde, mito ar varT
aSenebulebi?! dagvaqcies da dagvingries yvelafe-
ri. axla am gamwarebul gulze am 83 wlis kacma
leqsebis wera deiwyo. midi ra, giorgiC, moyevi
Zmobas gaficebT.
_ kai, marto Sesavals vityvi maSin!
`mevida somexi, degveca sxva mexi,
mevida arabi – SeTxelda Rababi,
daaswro indoelma – gagvTela didoelma,
sadaa, qarTveli?! – degeca marTla mexi.
kido me unda mkiTxo, miSas `grexi?!”
dasrulebas ar aclian `giorgiCs” ise hyvebian
ubnis `birJavikebi” sicilSi TmaTeTr moxucs da
Tan hpirdebian: `geixare, zurgiani jorko Cemze
iyos, Tu am leqssTvis wagarTmevs binas mTavroba!"
zaza CubiniZe.ssppeecciiaalluurraadd `̀ssaaeerrTToo ggaazzeeTTiissTTvviiss~~
qquuTTaaiissiiddaann
gvesaubreba cnobili tele-
wamyvani nugzar juReli.
_ batono nugzar, didi xania
ar CanxarT arc teleekranebze da
arc radioSi. ratom?
_ movxucdi, albaT yavlic
gamivida, sxvisi ar vici, magram
Cvens saqmianobaSi axalgazrdoba
unda movides, maT Cagvanacvlon,
rodesac berdebi, mexsiereba,
mxedveloba da bevri faqtori
gRalatobs. jobia, msmenels, ma-
yurebels axsovde iseTi, rogo-
ric iyavi Seni Semoqmedebis pikis
dros da ara daberebuli, dauZ-
lurebuli. amitom varCie wasvla.
_ batono nugzar, dRes qar-
Tul sazogadoebaSi sxvadasxvag-
vari Sexedulebebia biZina ivaniS-
vilis preskonferenciaze, sainte-
resoa Tqveni, rogorc gamocdili
da profesionalis azri am mov-
lenaze.
_ is ymawvili Jurnalistebi
darwmunebuli var viRacis samsa-
xurSi arian, viRac ufross emsa-
xurebian, magram, rogor moiwo-
nebs is Tavad, misi STamomavali,
sxva sakiTxia. yovelgvari gada-
Warbebis gareSe getyviT _ afe-
rum, batoni biZina ivaniSvilis
vaJkacobas. igi ar ahyva aranair
provokacias, Tavi Rirseulad
eWira da rac mTavaria, gauZlo
am Semotevas. Cemi piradi azriT,
batoni biZina ivaniSvilis damsa-
xurebaa, rom kidev ufro mZaf-
rad ar gamoCnda maTi umsgavsoba.
_ batono nugzar, rom Seva-
daroT dRevandeli dRe da Tqve-
ni dro, ra gansxvavebas xedavT?
_ ar dagimalavT, Cvens dros
did marwuxebSi viyaviT. mogvdio-
da instruqcia, Tundac imaze, Tu
rogor wagveyvana fexburTis re-
portaJi, magram iseTi bumberazi
xalxi, rogorebic iyvnen erosi
manjgalaZe, kote maxaraZe, rom-
lebic muSaobdnen sportul ko-
mentatorebad, SeuZlebeli iyo
ar gadmogdeboda maTi madli, Se-
marTeba. maxsovs is periodic,
70-iani wlebis bolos dagvava-
les rusulad gamogvacxadebina
matCebis ZiriTadi momentebi _
dro, angariSi. radiokomitetis
Tavmjdomarem sastikad amikrZa-
la: eTerSi rusulad araferi
Tqvao _ arada, mTeli kavkasiis
samxedro olqi Cven gvismenda.
erTs erTi undoda, meores meore.
ase iyo, magram Cven Cvens saxes
ar vkargavdiT. Sedarebas gulis-
xmobda Tqveni kiTxva, axla yve-
lanair wnexisgan Tavisufali
arian Cveni Jurnalistebi. Teori-
ulad mainc, magram ra
xdeba? Tavad mikvirs,
Cven dros didi yuradRe-
ba qarTul enas eqceoda.
qarTuli enis wamyvani
specialistebi modiodnen
televiziaSi da gvmoZRv-
ravdnen. axla msgavsi ram,
rbilad rom giTxraT,
cotaa.
Cemi Taobis komenta-
torebi jamleT xuxaSvi-
li, tato lasxiSvili,
Temur jafariZe da yvela,
miuxedavad imisa, rom
ukve wamyvani reportio-
rebi viyaviT, mainc mudam
vmecadineobdiT, vswavlobdiT.
gaxsovT, TbilisSi dadioda ga-
moTqma, nugzar juRelma Tqva re-
portaJSi `moedanze arian qarT-
veli kalaTburTelebi: `boroda-
Covi, milovidovi, kapustinio~.
arada qveynis maSindeli pirveli
piri jumber patiaSvili stumrad
kalaTburTelTa bazaze iyo da
rom gadaxeda Semadgenlobas
Tqva, nugzar juReli ase ityo-
dao. mas mere momaweres es fra-
zac. rac Seexeba baton jumbers,
bevr Tbil sityvas imsaxurebs.
erTxel, rostovidan minskSi miv-
diodiT sakavSiro Cempionatze,
bileTebis da gamgzavrebis prob-
lema dadga, rom ar Cavsuliya-
viT, wageba eTvleboda `dinamos~.
levan moseSvilma mTxova damere-
ka jumber patiaSvilTan. didi
xvewnis Semdeg gavriske da davu-
reke. `ar inerviuloT, yvelaferi
kargad iqeba~-o, miTxra da marT-
lac, erTi saaTis Semdeg ros-
tovSi Camofrinda TviTmfinavi,
romelmac minskSi gadaiyvana gun-
di.
_ batono nugzar, modiT, gu-
laxdilad gviTxariT, rogor
afasebT dRevandel viTarebas da
gansakuTrebiT biZina ivaniSvilis
politikur arenaze gamoCenas?
_ ar dagimalavT da albaT,
gaxsovT kidec, mixeil saakaSvi-
li rom movida qveynis saTaveSi,
maSin marTlac pirvelad Camesaxa
imedi, rom gveSveleboda. maSin,
misi pirveli gamosvlebi imediT
aRmavsebda. gvaxsovs misi erT-er-
Ti pirveli gamgzavreba da vizi-
ti ruseTSi, rodesac man xalx-
Tan erTad imgzavra. Tavad rusu-
li presac am movlenas farTod
aSuqebda, rom rogorc iqna, movi-
da Tundac erTi adamiani qveynis
saTaveSi, romelic xalxTan ari-
so. mec Camesaxa imedi. rom movi-
da qveynis saTaveSi kaci, rome-
lic daicavs, aaRorZinebs xalx-
sac da qveyanasac, Turme mwared
Sevcdi. rac baton biZina ivaniS-
vils gaukeTa amazrzenia, adamian-
ma, romelmac miliardnaxevari
daxarja sakuTar qveyanaSi qvel-
moqmedebis saxiT da moqalaqeobas
waarTmev? es igivea, morwmunes
jvari Camoglijo, mRvdeli gak-
riWo. waarTves moqalaqeoba amis-
Tana adamians. erTs getyviT,
RmerTma qnas, am ukanasknelma
imedma CemisTana xalxs ar uRa-
latos da darCes naTel svetad
saqarTvelos istoriaSi.
gia burduli
nugzar juReli: nugzar juReli:
`biZina ivaniSvils rom moqalaqeoba waarTva,
es igivea morwmunes jvari Camoaglijo...~
`mevida somexi, degveca sxva mexi, ...kido me unda mkiTxo,miSas `grexi?!~
21saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
gvesaubreba socialuri ekono-
mikis eqsperti oTar xufenia.
_ batono oTar, xelisufleba
xSirad aRniSnavs, rom ekonomikur
aRmasvlaSi badali ar gvyavs. ra
viTarebaa realurad, male parla-
menti 2012 wlis biujets daamt-
kicebs, ramdenad asaxulia masi
ekonomikuri aRmasvlebi?
_ amJamad debatebi mimdinare-
obs 2012 wlis biujetis Taobaze.
finansTa saministros mier biuje-
tis proeqtis meore varianti, ise
rogorc pirveli, dauzustebelia.
xelisufleba apiarebs TiTqos sa-
qarTveloSi ekonomikuri krizisi
ar aris, Turme mTeli msoflios
ekonomika CamoSlilia, Cveni ki
izrdeba, rac samwuxarod realo-
bas ar Seesabameba _ biujetis
proeqtis xarisxobrivi maCvenebe-
li sxva rameze metyvelebs. Tqvens
yuradRebas sam ZiriTad parametr-
ze gavamaxvileb, esenia: I. saSemo-
savlo gadasaxadi, romelic, praq-
tikulad qveyanaSi samuSao adgi-
lebis da xelfasebis zrdas adas-
turebs. mogaxsenebT ra realobaa
CvenTan _ 2011 wels 2010 welTan
SedarebiT saSemosavlo gadasaxadi
292 milioni lariT, xolo 2012
wels igi 119 milioni lariT ga-
izrdeba, anu dRevandelTan Seda-
rebiT 173 milioni lariT nakle-
bi zrdaa. am cifrebiT Tu vimsje-
lebT, 2012 wels mosalodneli
ar aris arc samuSao adgilebis,
arc saSualo xelfasis zrda da
arc dasaqmebis sakiTxis mogvareba.
II. qveyanSi ekonomikuri aqtiuro-
bis zrdis kuTxiT 2012 wels Sem-
degi viTarebaa _ 2011 wels 2010
welTan SedarebiT damatebiTi Ri-
rebulebis gadasaxadi 527 milio-
niT gaizarda, xolo 2012 wels
igi mxolod 250 milioni lariT
gaizrdeba, anu zrda ganaxevrebu-
lia. III. rac Seexeba mogebis gada-
saxads, anu ekonomikis efeqtiano-
bis erT-erT ZiriTad parametrs,
aqac, 2011 wels zrda iyo 128 mi-
lioni lari, xolo 2012 wels
mxolod 117 milioni lariT gaiz-
rdeba. am samive parametrs Tu Se-
vajamebT, cxadia, rom absolutu-
ri moculobebis zrda ganaxevre-
bulia. es niSnavs mxolod da mxo-
lod imas, rom ekonomikaSi moma-
val wels raime seriozuli wins-
vla ar gveqneba. aqve minda aRvniS-
no, `nac.moZraobis~ zogierTi sam-
xreebiani eqsperti ambobs, rom
radganac naklebi gadasaxadebi
amogvaqvs, es ekonomikaSi rCebao.
calsaxaa, rom mogebac da saSemo-
savlo gadasaxadis nawilic mxo-
lod da mxolod monopolizebul
ekonomikebSi rCeba da ara wvril
da saSualo anu im biznesSi, ro-
melic wesiT yvelaze mniSvnelova-
ni unda iyos qveynis ekonomikuri
mdgradobisTvis. 2011 wlis abso-
lutur zrdas 2012 wlis mosa-
lodnel zrdas Tu SevadarebT mi-
viRebT minus 608 milion lars,
rac aseve dasturia imisa, rom
ekonomikis araviTar ayvavebasTan
saqme ar gvaqvs.
_ rac Seexeba sapensio da so-
cialur uzrunvelyofas ra cvli-
lebebia am kuTxiT biujetSi. pre-
zidentma 2012 wlis seqtembridan
67 wlis zemoT asakis pensione-
rebs pensiis momatebas dapirda.
asaxulia es bijetis proeqtSi?
_ sapensio uzrunvelyofisa
da socialuri daxmarebebis, anu
`siRaribis programis~ xarjebi
2012 wlis biujetSi izrdeba,
rac jamSi 194 milion lars Se-
adgens. es TiTqos erTi SexedviT
didi zrdaa, magram Tu am yvela-
fers realurad ganvixilavT, sak-
maod dasafiqrebel cifrebs mivi-
RebT. kerZod, roca xelisufleba
ambobs gavzrdiT SromiT pensias,
romelic 125 lars plius 15 la-
riani janmrTelobis dazRvevis
poliss gautoldebao, martiv eS-
makobasa da cifrebiT manipulaci-
asTan gvaqvs saqme. erTi SexedviT,
2012 wels mimdinare welTan Se-
darebiT sapensio xarjebi TiTqos
88 milioni lariT izrdeba, magram
aqedan 3-4 mimdinare wels 10+20
lariani pensiebis momatebis dafi-
nansebaze daixarjeba. realurad
2012 wlis seqtembridan 67 wels
zemoT asakis SromiT pensioners
moemateba 15-20 laramde da dau-
rigdebaT 15 lariani e.w. janmrTe-
lobis dazRvevis polisi. xeli-
sufleba misTvis Cveuli piar-kam-
paniis miRma malavs, rom Tundac
aseTi mcire momateba ar Seexeba
240 aTasamde SromiT pensioners,
110 aTasze met SezRuduli SesaZ-
leblobebis mqone pirs, 30 aTasam-
de marCenaldakargul pensioners
da 2000-ze met polit-represire-
bul pirs, anu 390 aTasze meti
adamiani xelisuflebis `wyalo-
bis~ miRma rCeba. xelisufleba mo-
saxleobas, aseve umalavs imasac,
rom 120 aTasze meti SromiTi pen-
sioneri ukve Rebulobs 10 lari-
an danamats da isini momavali
wlis bolo 4 TveSi miiReben 60
larian `wyalobas~, rac inflaci-
is gaTvaliswinebiT 45 larze me-
ti ver iqneba. aqve unda aRiniSnos
kidev erTi _ 2012 wels janmrTe-
lobis dazRvevis polisebis `bi-
Tumad~ Sesyidvis xarjebi 106 mi-
lioni lariT izrdeba. xelisuf-
lebam ukve daapiara, rom 670 aTa-
si pensioneris da 50 aTasamde 6
wlamde asakis bavSvebis janmrTe-
loba dazRveuli iqneba. xelisuf-
leba aqac tyuis, kerZod, am
kontingentidan 220 aTasze
meti adamiani ukve dazRveu-
lia, e.w. `siRaribis zRvris
programiT~. ufro metic,
2012 wlis bijetis, e.w.
prioritetebis danarTSi
aseTi aqtebis damadasture-
beli Canaweric ar arsebobs.
sasaciloa, magram faqtia,
finansTa saministro gveub-
neba _ aseTi Sesworebebi
momaval proeqtSi iqnebao.
gamodis, rom xelisuflebis
mier gapiarebuli sapensio
paketi srulad ar aris da-
finansebuli. yvelasTvis
kargadaa cnobili im elita-
ruli korufciuli Waobis
Sesaxeb, rac saxelmwifos
mier polisebis Sesyidvasa
da darigebas ukavSirdeba.
cnobilia isic, rom xeli-
suflebas am maxinj sistemaSi
cvlileba ar Seutania, rac niS-
navs, rom momaval wels es 106 mi-
lioni lari elitaruli koruf-
ciis damatebiTi wyaro gaxdeba. aq-
ve minda aRvniSno, rom sapensio
paketis cnebas civiluri samyaro
saerTod ar icnobs. es arcaa ga-
sakviri imitom, rom saqarTvelo-
Si pensiis cnebasac, rogorc es
xelisuflebas esmis, analogi ar
gaaCia. zemoT moyvanili cifrebi
cxadhyofs, rom es paketi forma-
luria. magaliTad, xelisufleba
saubrobs garkveul SekrebiToba-
ze, vTqvaT pensias damatebuli po-
lisi udris sapensio pakets. ase-
Tive `warmatebiT~ SegviZlia Sev-
kriboT SromiTi pensia, siRaribis
Semweobebi, transportis, komuna-
luri gadasaxadebis SeRavaTebi da
maTi SekrebiTobiT `aRvasruloT~
miSas danapirebi 100 dolariani
viTom sapensio paketi. realurad,
am yvelafers araviTari kavSiri
ar aqvs mosaxleobis sapensio uz-
runvelyofasTan. ufro metic, xe-
lisuflebis sapensio paketi im
pakets hgavs, rac xalxma mtkvar-
ze gadebul SuSis xids uwoda.
`nac.moZraobis~, xelisuflebis
socialuri politikis Sedegad,
maT es paketi namdvilad sWirde-
baT. es kidev araferi, saqme gvaqvs
kidev ufro did kuriozTan _ ro-
ca xelisufleba gaiZaxoda 670
aTas pensioners pensia moematebao,
aRmoCnda, rom rodesac parlamen-
ti 2012 wlis biujetis proeqtis
meore variants ixilavda, es cif-
rebi gawerilic ki ar iyo. finan-
sTa ministrma gvindaZem ganacxada
_ mesamed rom SemovitanT biuje-
tis proeqts, es cifrebi iq iqne-
ba gawerilio. sasaciloa satira-
li rom ar iyos. `nac.moZraobis~
deputats vekiTxebi _ ras ixilav-
diT, aba, batonebo Tqven, Tu Tan-
xebi jer gawerili ar iyo da es
sakiTxi mxolod prezidentis da
premieris verbaluri dapirebebiT
Semoifargleboda?! es araserio-
zuli midgomaa, ase ar SeiZleba
moeqce biujets, romelic yvela
qveyanaSi konkretuli wlis Ziri-
Tadi ekonomikuri da finansuri
kanonia. Cemi azriT, roca sami ka-
ci verbalur dapirebebs iZleva,
rac realur gaTvlaze dafuZnebu-
li ar aris, es biujetis Sedgena
ki ara, cifrebiT manipulirebis
Wra-kervis skolaa, rasac biuje-
tis formirebis procesTan saer-
To araferi aqvs.
_ xelisuflebis mier Ratak
beneficiarebze zrunvam polisebis
darigebis kuTxiT, davinaxeT rom
Sedegi ver moitana. ratom uSvebs
xelisufleba igive Secdomas, ram-
denad sworad daixarjeba am fon-
ze gamoyofili 106 milioni la-
ri?
_ e.w. janmrTelobis dazRve-
vis polisebis `biTumad~ Sesyid-
vis elitaruli korufciis Sesa-
xeb kontrolis palatam sazoga-
doeba ukve gaafrTxila. Tumca, am
faqtze arc sadazRvevo kompanieb-
ma, arc jandacvis saministrom,
arc Tavad kontrolis palatam da
arc sazogadoebam saTanado reagi-
reba ar moaxdina. iciT, rom am Te-
maze Sesabamisi struqturebidan
dRemde ar gakeTebula komentari.
maSin, roca am meqanizmSi, rogorc
zemoT aRvniSne araviTari cvli-
leba ar momxdara, maSin damatebiT
kidev ratom vyidulobT 106 mi-
lioni laris janmrTelobis
dazRvevis polisebs? es Tanxa xom
ar aris gamiznuli pirdapir ko-
rufciul WaobSi CasaSvebad da
visac ankesebi gaaCnia, maT mier
aTeulobiT milionebis ukan amosa-
Rebad?! Cemi azriT, swored ase
moxdeba.
_ da bolos, batono oTar xe-
lisuflebis gadawyvetileba moma-
vali wlis seqtembridan mxolod
67 wels zemoT myof pensionerebs
moumaton pensia, ramdenad samarT-
liania da riT aris es ganpirobe-
buli?
_ Tu polisebis `biTumad~
Sesyidva federaluri xelisufle-
bis anu Sromis, janmrTelobisa da
socialuri dacvis saministros
saqmianobaa, ratom yidulobs qa-
laqis meria 16 milioni laris
aseT polisebs? icis ki vinmem,
rom 10-12 kaciani struqtura
uruSaZis saministroSi ra meTo-
debiT, ra xerxebiT SeZlebs 1.400
aTasi polisis darigebis Semdeg
gaakontrolos mxareTa interese-
bis dabalanseba. subsidirebis saa-
gentos xelmZRvanelma aRniSna 4
aTasi zari Semovida beneficiare-
bisgan cxel xazzeo. ra gamodis,
rom 1 milioni beneficiaridan mx-
olod 4 aTasia ukmayofilo? gar-
wmunebT, am beneficiarTa 90 pro-
centma dResac ar icis ra qaRal-
di aqvT saxlSi. e.w. polisis sa-
xiT. araerTxel miTqvams, saqarT-
veloSi sapensio uzrunvelyofisa
da siRaribis zRvars qvemoT myof-
Ta programis sistema sxva arafe-
ria Tu ara 21-e saukunis seTu-
rizmi, anu mama-marCenalis kompl-
eqsis praqtikuli realizacia. Se-
kiTxvaze _ mxolod momavali
wlis seqtembridan ratom umatebT
pensionerebs pensiebso, da isic 67
wels zeviT, premiers wamoscda _
es Cveni finansuri SesaZleblobi-
dan optimaluri gadawyvetile-
baao. vsvam kiTxvas _ momaval
wels kidev ufro naklebi resur-
si rom eqnebaT, ras izamen _ 90
wels gadacilebul pensionerebs
moumateben mxolod pensias?! am
seTurizmis dangrevis erTaderTi
aprobirebuli, civiluri gza sa-
xelmwifo socialuri dazRvevis
sistemis aRdgenaa. dRes, varT er-
TaderTi qveyana post.socialis-
tur sivrceSi, romelsac saval-
debulo saxelmwifo socialuri
dazRveva ar gaaCnia. es imis Sede-
gia, rom `vardosnebma~ am 8 wlis
manZilze Seqmnes Sps `saqarTve-
lo~, anu SezRuduli pasuxismgeb-
lobis saxelmwifo. SezRuduli
pasuxismeblobis saxelmwifoebs ki
erisa da qveynis winaSe upasuxis-
mgeblo adamianebi qmnian. am saxel-
mwifos sakuTari xalxis mimarT
pasuxismgebloba SezRuduli aqvs.
Tamar SveliZe
2013 wels xelisufleba pensiebs 90 wels gadacilebul pensionerebs moumatebs?!
saparlamento fraqciis _ `erToba samar-
TlianobisTvis~ _ Tavmjdomare, partia “Tavi-
sufali demokratebis” wevri giorgi cagare-
iSvili 45-660 wlamde asakis pirebis dasaqme-
basTan dakavSirebul sakanonmdeblo inicia-
tivas winasaarCevno gadawyvetilebad afasebs.
man Sesabamisi gancxadeba parlamentis dRes
gamarTul plenarul sxdomaze sagadasaxdo ko-
deqsSi cvlilebebis proeqtis ganxilvisas gaa-
keTa, romlis Tanaxmadac, Tu 45-ddan 60 wlam-
de pirebi 2011 wlis 1 ianvridan 1 ivlisamde
dasaqmdebian, maTi xelfasi saSemosavlo gadasa-
xadiT erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi ar daibegreba.
cagareiSvilis TqmiT, es politikurad
motivirebuli gadawyvetilebaa, radgan xeli-
suflebas am kategoriis adamianebi aqamde ara-
sodes gaxsenebia. metic, saakaSvili maT Tavis
droze `Carecxilebsac~ ki uwodebda.
`mainteresebs, sad iyo saqarTvelos xeli-
sufleba 2007-22010 wlebSi? maSin ar iyo
umuSevroba? es aris pirdapir asakobrivi dis-
kriminacia da misi mizani “nacionaluri moZ-
raobis” mier amgvari dausabuTebeli cvlile-
bebiT damatebiTi xmebis mopovebis survilia~,
– ganacxada giorgi cagareiSvilma.
mis mosazrebas finansTa ministris moadgi-
le rusudan kemularia ar daeTanxma. misi TqmiT,
diskriminaciaze saubari zedmetia, radgan aRniS-
nuli iniciativa SeRavaTs iTvaliswinebs.
rac Seexeba imas, Tu ratom aris aRebuli
dasaqmebis vadad 1 ianvridan 1 ivlisamde ar-
sebuli periodi, kemularias ganmartebiT, Se-
RavaTi mudmivad ver iqneba. winaaRmdeg SemTx-
vevaSi, mas biujetis saSemosavlo nawilSi se-
riozuli kleba mohyveba.
`ar SeiZleba, SeRavaTi iseTi iyos, rome-
lic ekonomikurad da fiskalurad ukuSedegs
gamoiRebs~, _ aRniSna rusudan kemulariam.
`medianiusi~
ccaaggaarreeiiSSvviillii 4455-ddaann 6600 wwllaammddee ppiirreebbiiss ddaassaaqqmmeebbaassTTaann ddaakkaavvSSiirreebbuull iinniicciiaattiivvaass ppoolliittiikkuurraadd mmoottiivviirreebbuullss uuwwooddeebbss
22 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
biZina ivaniSvilis moqala-
qeobis aRdgenasTan dakavSire-
biT sazogadoebaSi, solidaro-
bis niSnad, xelmowerebis Seg-
roveba daiwyo. am mizniT Seiq-
mna ,,samoqalaqo erTobis fr-
onti~, romlis wevrebma sul
ramodenime dReSi aTi aTasobiT
xelmowera ukve Seagroves.
Temis irgvliv ,,saerTo ga-
zeTs~ ,,samoqalaqo erTobis
frontis~ wevri da arasamTav-
robo organizaciis ,,gadaarCine
sicocxle~ axalgazrduli
frTis lideri mixeil mum-laZe esaubra.
_ `gadaarCine sicocxlis~
iniciativiT biZina ivaniSvilis
mxardasaWerad xelmowerebis
Segroveba daiwyo. mxardaWera
105-ma arasamTavrobom ukve ga-
mogvicxada da erToblivi Za-
lebiT CamovayalibeT samoqala-
qo erTobis fronti.
vTvliT, rom samebis saka-
Tedro taZris aRmSenebels,
uamravi istoriuli Zeglis
gadamrCenels da mravali sasi-
keTo saqmis gamkeTebels sa-
qarTvelos moqalaqeoba auci-
leblad unda hqondes. sain-
teresoa, aqamde sad iyvnen mi-
Sas kacebi, roca ivaniSvili
wlebis ganmavlobaSi afinan-
sebda. axla gaxda maTTvis da
saqarTvelosTvis mteri da
ruseTis agenti? aucilebelia
qarTvelma xalxma viswavloTY
solidaroba, erTmaneTis mxar-
Si dgoma, winaaRmdeg SemTxve-
vaSi, saqarTvelo win ver wa-
va.
_ mxolod xelmowerebis
SegrovebiT apirebT solidaro-
bas Tu sxva gegemebic gaqvT?
_ cnobilia, rom ,,aversis~,
,,psp~ da ,,visolis~ xelmZRva-
nelobam ,,qarTudan~ angariSebi
e.w miSas bankebSi gadaitanes.
vapirebT sazogadoebas movuwo-
doT solidarobis niSnad vi-
solis benzingasamarT sadgu-
rebze ar Caasxan sawvavi.
_ rogor fiqrobT, sazoga-
doeba mxardaWeras gamogicxa-
debT?
_ xalxis Tanadgomis didi
imedi gvaqvs. 5 000 adamianma
gamoTqva survili xelmowere-
bis SegrovebaSi dagvexmaros,
15 000 xelmosaweri blanki
ukve gatanilia. sazogadoebis
erTad dgoma, solidaroba da
TanagrZnoba yovelTvis Sedegis
momtani iqneba, erTmaneTis lan-
ZRva_gineba ki kargs arafers
moutans arc saqarTvelos da
arc qarTvelebs.
_ Tu apirebT, konsultaci-
ebs politikuri partiebis
axalgazrdul organizacieb-
Tan?
_ amis saSualebas maT po-
litikuri koniunqtura ar aZ-
levT, amisTvis aucilebelia
politikuri partiis lidereb-
ma miiRon gadawyvetileba. mar-
Talia biznesmeni didi xnis
ganmavlobaSi exmareboda miSas
mTavrobas, magram mTavaria,
adamianma droulad dainaxos
Secdoma da gamoasworos.
_ biZina ivaniSvili qarTve-
lebisTvis qarTuli ocnebis
axdenas apirebs, rogor warmo-
gidgeniaT qarTul ocneba, ra-
ze unda gakeTdes aqcentebi?
_ qarTuli ocnebis asru-
leba mxolod imas ar iTvalis-
winebs, rom ivaniSvils 6 mili-
ardiani qoneba gaaCnia, mxolod
am formiT qarTvelebis ocnebe-
bi ver axdeba. qarTveli kacis
ocneba mxolod im SemTxvevaSi
asruldeba Tu ivaniSvili Seq-
mnis konkurentul garemos, sa-
marTlian saxelmwifos, samu-
Sao adgilebs da a. S.
ra Tqma unda, idealuri ga-
remocva ar arsebobs, vTxov bi-
Zina ivaniSvils mousminos yve-
las, Tumca gadawyvetilebebi
mxolod Tavad miiRos. rac
mTavaria, mudmivad hqondes
xalxTan urTierToba.
_ sazogadoebSi gaCnda az-
ri, rom Tqveni aqtivoba mxo-
lod da mxolod biznesmenisgan
fulis miRebis SeaZleblobas
emsaxureba?
_ msgavsi azri Tavadac mo-
vismine, Tumca Cveni qmedeba
mTlianad enTuziazmzea dafuZ-
nebuli da ivaniSvilisgan dax-
marebas aravin elodeba. Cven am
saqmiT mxolod da mxolod
ivaniSvilis saqmes ar vakeTebT,
upirvelesad, sazogadoebaSi
solidarobis, Tanadgomis, gan-
cdas vnergavT. sainteresoa,
gaRatakebulma qarTvelebma ra
raodenobis anabari unda gaxs-
nas ,,qarTuSi~, rom banki ga-
darCinon? aq mniSvnelovani so-
lidarobaa.
_ cnobilia, rom nacmoZra-
obis warmomadgenlebi Tqveni
saxeliT xelmowerebs agrove-
ben. rogor apirebT problemis
mogvarebas?
_ Temqaze momxdar faqts
getyviT: nacionaluri moZrao-
bis wevrma mTeli sadarbazos
mosaxleobas xeli moawerina da
xelmowerili blanki policia-
Si Caitana, policiis warmoma-
dgenlebma ki Temqis mosaxleo-
bas sityvieri Seuracxyofa mi-
ayenes. Cven, visac xels vaweri-
nebT, vafrTxilebT, rom sxva-
ganac ar hqondeT xelmowera
radgan maTi xma baTilad ar Ca-
iTvalos. Tu vinme raime saeW-
vos SeamCnevs, SeuZlia mogv-
marTos ,,jazuSi~ da am infor-
macias aucileblad gadavamow-
mebT.
miranda nabaxteveli
biZina ivniSvilismxardasaWerad samoqalaqo
erTobis fronti Seiqmna
eqimebis daskvniT, sadgur `samt-
redia-22~-iis teritoriaze aRiniSneba
radiaciuli dabinZureba. medikose-
bis daskvniT am adgilebSi aris mag-
nituri veli, aqedan mimdinareobs
damwvrobac, risi mizezicaa damwv-
robebi da sxvadasxva simsivnuri da-
avadebebi. rkinigzis xelmZRvaneloba
saqmis kursSia, magram ar reagirebs,
_ acxadebs samtrediis rkinigzis
yofili TanamSromeli jumberpertenava.
daTxovnebi mizezebisa
da gafrTxilebebis gareSe
samtrediis rkinigzis saTadari-
go morige merab TargamaZe saStato
erTeulis gauqmebis motiviT gaaTa-
visufles samsaxuridan. sinamdvile-
Si 4 saStato erTeuli ucvleli
darCa. mis adgilze sxva miiRes. 2
mcirewlovani Svilis mama umuSeva-
ri datoves. mizezi Semdgom gairkva
daTxovnili rkinigzeli profkavSi-
rebis gamgeobis wevri iyo, man ara-
erTgzis daayena mwvave moTxovnebi
administraciis winaSe, kolegebis
socialuri pirobebis gaumjobesebis
Taobaze. mouwesrigebelia tualete-
bi, morige memanqaneebis mosacdeli
oTaxebi. gadasaxalisebelia samuSao
teqnika, problemebis saaSkaraoze
gamotanis gamo simarTlis mTqmeli
samsaxuridan moxsnes. yvelas, vinc
ki raime pretenzias gamoTqvams, ka-
rebisken uTiTeben, _ gviTxres rki-
nigzis profkavSirebSi.
muSebi xelsawyoebs
sakuTari fuliT yiduloben
profesiul kavSirebSi isic Tq-
ves, rom sadgurebis morigeebis ab-
solutur umetesobas ara aqvs spe-
ctansacmeli, igrZnoba individua-
luri dacvis saSualebebis naklebo-
ba. Casacmelis, iseve rogorc, samu-
Sao iaraRebis SeZenas TanamSrom-
lebs avaleben. mZime mdgomareobaa
moZravi Semadgenlobebis gamarTu-
lobis kuTxiTac. es ki riskis qveS
ayenebs, rogorc xelmZRvaneli aseve
momsaxure personalis uSiSroebas.
vinc dasaxelebuli sakiTxebi win
wamowion, yvela gaanTavisufles,
acxadebs rkinigzis profkavSirebis
gamgeobis wevri kaxa kaxaZe. ganTavi-
suflebulTaTvis kadrebis sammarT-
veloSi erTi pasuxi aqvT. _ Sromis
kodeqsis 37-e muxli. romlis mi-
xedviTac damqiravbels yovelgvari
winaswari gafrTxilebis gareSe aqvs
ufleba gawyvitos kontraqti daqi-
ravebulTan. (sxvaTaSoris kanoni am
monur cvlilebas `nacumravlobas-
Tan~ erTad parlamentSi myofma e.w.
opoziciurma partiebmac dauWires
mxari). masmediasTan saubarSi rki-
nigzis administracia acxadebs, rom
Semcirebebi rkinigzaze tvirTbrun-
vebis klebiTaa gamowveuli, amis ga-
mo maT amgvari TanamSromeli aRar
sWirdebaT.
profkavSirebis liderebTan sa-
ubarSi isic gairkva, rom rkinigza-
Si moqmedebs uvado e.w. mudmivi
xelSekrulebis wesi, rac kanonis
uxeSi darRvevaa. profesionalTa
ganmartebiT, am kontraqtze xelis
mowera mxolod administraciis
rCeulTa xvedria. profesiuli kav-
Siris aqtivistebi arc imas malaven,
rom rkinigza mdidari organizaciaa.
aqvs mogeba, romelic infrastruq-
turis gaumjobesebis nacvlad `ger-
buSkis~ jibeebSi ileqeba. fantasti-
kuri premiebi iwereba xelmZRvanel-
TaTvis. Tanxebis urTierTgacemaze
erTi da igive pirebi aweren xels.
marto SarSan premialurebis saxiT
250 aTas larze meti gaica. waxali-
sebulTa Soris Tvalis asaxvevad 1-
2 muSas Tu gamoureven da raRac
150-200 lars Tu gaimeteben. maSin,
rodesac TviTon 4-5 aTasiani xel-
fasis tol Tanxebs iweren grafa-
Sic, sxvadasxva danaxarjebi, gasava-
li 10 aTasobiT laria. zemdgomebi
yvelafers asaidumloeben. xmis
amomRebs ki... _ acxadeben `saqarTve-
los rkinigzis~ profkavSirebSi.
is, rom rkinigzis xelmZRvane-
lobis gundi mTlad sinqronulad
ver muSaobs, muSa-mosamsaxureTa
ganTavisuflebis Sesaxeb gakeTebu-
li gancxadebebidanac sCans. Tu ad-
ministracia ambobs, rom xalxis sam-
saxuridan gaSvebis ZiriTadi mizezi
tvirTbrunvis Semcirebaao, pres-
samsaxurSi miaCniaT, rom kompania
warmatebulad viTardeba da siste-
matiurad axdens struqturul op-
timizacias nebismier doneze, raTa
struqtura ufro moqnili gaxdes.
es ki gulisxmobs samuSao adgile-
bis Semcirebas, magram, samagierod,
iqmneba axali samuSao adgilebi,
konkurenciis wesiT xdeba vakansie-
bis Sevseba. momaval TanamSromelTa
SerCeva, mxolod yofil Tu moqmed
krinigzelTa Soris xdeba. amJamad,
acxadeben rkinigzis sazogadoebas-
Tan urTierTobis samsaxurSi, kompa-
nia 2,8 mld laris investiciebs
axorcielebs. damatebiT dasaqmdeba
6 aTasamde adamiani.
vagoni mihqris
rkinigzis xelmZRvaneloba Ziri-
Tadad tvirTebis gadazidvazea ori-
entirebuli. naklebad adardebT Si-
da samgzavro gadazidvebi. isini xom
tvirTebTan SedarebiT naklebad
momgebiania. transportelebi qveynis
umaRles xelmZRvanelobasac atyue-
ben, rodesac upatakeben maT, rom
mgzavrTa gadayvanis raodenobam Se-
madgenlobebis 100 procents miaR-
wia, xdeba aseTi ram, gamwevs (elma-
vals, Tmobavals) Caabamen zugdidis,
foTis, senakis, ozurgeTis vagonebs
(1-2 SesaZoa 3-ic). samtrediidan
xdeba Semadgenlobebis qalaqebis mi-
marTulebiT Camoxsna, amiT rkinigza
ramodenime kurdRels klavs, zogavs
eleqtroenergias, sawvav-sapoxs, am-
cireben muSaxelsa da momsaxure
persoals, xelisuflebas ki upata-
keben, rom Semadgenlobebi 100 pro-
centiTaa datvirTuli _ ambobs
Tbilisis rkinigzis yofili molare
elene msxilaZe da iqve dasZens: rom
icodeT, ra ambavia vagzlis salaro-
ebTan. bileTebis SeZena SeuZlebe-
lia gzad gamaval sadgurebSi (go-
ri, xaSuri da a.S.) bileTis kiTx-
vac ar Rirs. transportis mamebma
moqalaqeebisaTvis servisis gaumjo-
besebis magivrad yvelaferi yiraze
daayenes, maT TavianTi uazro ga-
dawyvetilebiT sarkinigzo qsels
moswyvites samxreT saqarTvelo, ga-
auqmes ra Tbilisi-vales reisi.
mowyvetilni aRmoCndnen: vale,
axalcixe, axalqalaqi, adigeni, ni-
nowminda. dainiSna Semoklebuli re-
isi Tbilisi-borjomi, 6 vagonis Se-
madgenlobiT. sagareubno matarebel-
Si sruli qaosia, salaroebSi bile-
Tebi ar iyideba. mgzavrobis safa-
surs rkinigzelebi dacvis TanamS-
romelTa TanxlebiT xelze krefen.
mgzavrobis safasuris amgvari ga-
daxda bevrma maTganma aralegaluri
Semosavlis wyarod gaixada. amave
mizans emsaxureba sagareubno mata-
rebliT tvirTis gadatana (sxvadas-
xva produqti, xili). fasebi SeTan-
xmebiTaa. rkinigzelebsa da Sss-s
dacvis samsaxurs fuls uxdian
xelze movaWreebic (qada, xaWapuri,
mzesumzira, da a.S.).
profkavSirebis
damxmare aravinaa
xelisuflebis usaxuri dinama-
tad qceul saqarTvelos gaerTiane-
bul profkavSirebs da mis Tavmj-
domare petriaSvils ar ainteresebT
TavianTi dargobrivi wevrebis bedi
(pedagogebi, medikosebi da a.S.) amis
fonze misasalmebelia rkinigzis
profesiuli kavSiris brZola Tavi-
si kolegebis interesebisa da uf-
lebebis dacvis kuTxiT. misi Tavmj-
domare hamlet lomiZe daufaravad
saubrobs problemebze. igi acxa-
debs, rom gaumarTlebelia dargis
muSakTa kanonis gverdis avliT gan-
Tavisufleba da TxovnaTa Sesaxeb
profkavSirs saqmis kursSi ar aye-
neben. dargSi arsebul yvela prob-
lemebze moxsenebiTi baraTebi miswe-
res administracias, magram maTgan
reaqcia ar aris. pasuxis gacemac ki
ar ikadres. arada, maT Soris xel-
Sekrulebaa gaformebuli. rkinigzis
xelmZRvaneloba ar asrulebs nakisr
valdebulebas. gasagebia, _ ambobs
lomiZe, rom bevri sakiTxis mogva-
rebas Tanxebi sWirdeba, magram iqve
dasZens, Semosavali didia, gasava-
lic sakmaoa. magram sad midis fu-
lebi, ucnobia. saerTo Tanxis mimoq-
cevis Sesaxeb informacia yvelasaT-
vis xelmisawvdomi unda iyos. igno-
rirebulia gamWirvalobis princi-
pi...
am saqmeSi lomiZes, cxadia, ver
eqneba `vardosnebis~ xeldasmuli
petriaSvilis imedi. Tumca arc
TviTmarqvia opoziciuri partiebi
iklaven didad Tavs viTarebaSi ga-
sarkvevad.
zaza bilixoZe
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zze
sad mivyavarT matareblis liandags?
23saerTo gazeTi#46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
rac ufro didxans gagrZeldeba ivaniSvilisTvis
moqalaqeobis aRdgenasTan dakavSirebuli gaugebro-
ba, saakaSvilis xelisufleba, savaraudod, sul uf-
ro daemsgavseba dadan karambolos kusturicas
cnobili filmidan, romelic zemoTaRweril ormoSi Cavar-
da. ilia II-m saakaSvils Seqmnili mdgomareobidan praqtiku-
lad erTaderTi SesaZlebeli gamosavali SesTavaza, rome-
lic SedarebiT umtkivneulo da naklebad samarcxvino iqne-
ba. sainteresoa, Seismens reJimi mis mowodebas Tu isev far-
Txals ganagrZobs?
ra zrdilobiani prezidenti gvyavs?! roca bavSvia
oTaxSi, rogorc ki davinaxav, televizors vTiSav,
ar minda misi manerebi gadaiRos, misi leqsikiT
metyvelebdes an cxvirs xeliT ixocavdes...
sircxvili is ki ar aris, Sengan damoukidebeli mi-
zezebis gamo rom aRmoCndi socialurad daucvel
mdgomareobaSi, sircxvili is aris, rom ar apro-
testeb amas da sakuTar da analogiur mdgomareo-
baSi aRmoCenili Tanamoqalaqis uflebebsa da adamianur Rir-
sebas ar icav.
ra ZuZu awova aseTi edikam-am bovSebs...an (naRdad)
ZuZu awova ki beberma melam?!
iqneb TqvenTvis misaRebi da mosawonia saakaSvilis
prezidentoba, magram yvelafers aqvs dasawyisi da
dasasruli. ase rom, ganaxlebis dro modis, saakaS-
vilisTvis saqarTvelos prezidentoba samaradJamod
aravis uCuqebia. ar iqneba biZina? iqneba sxva. SeegueT cvli-
lebebs.
vwuxvar, Tqveni sacodaobiT aRara var, ra giyoT,
gemi iZireba da gaiqeciT Cailuris wylis dasale-
vad.... sanam damsgavsebixarT duJmoreul kapitans,ise
mucliT mxoxav e.w. mTavarsardals TviTmfrinavis
xmazec ki, sjobs CaZiruli gemis kapitnoba...”ito
xleb”...axalgazrdebi xarT da momavals nu ingrevT mag zi-
zil-pipilo iluziebiT,gons moegeT, rom ar dagidgeT dro
Zalian SegrcxveT am usindiso saqcielebiT, garwmunebT,
araferi arafrad ar Rirs qveynis da xalxis siyvarulis fa-
sad!
xalxis azriT
erTi amaT damixedeT,
neo-polit-fantomasebs,
agvaRoRdnen tilebiviT,
mere - Tavzec gadmogvafses,
sxva sikeTis verSemZleni
umateben marto fasebs
da futuro imedebiT
abriyveben farTo masebs.
hoda Jami moaxlovda
takogasatokebio,
Slopancebis qveS gavfinoT
ako-pako-gokebio!!!
kaxa benduqiZis usazRvro madis
Sesaxeb yvelas kargad moexseneba.
mas axali biznes-iinteresi gasCenia,
romlis Sesaxebac `saerTo gazeTs~
arasamTavroboTa koalicia `axal-
gazrdebi samarTliani cvlilebebis-
Tvis~ warmomadgeneli giorgi fa-resiSvili esaubra.
giorgi faresiSvili: `kaxa ben-
duqiZes imdeni biznesi aqvs saqarT-
veloSi, rom maTi CamoTvla Sors
wagviyvans. misi ekonomikis minist-
robis periodidan daiwyo saqarTve-
los bunebrivi resursebis da
mTlianad ekonomikis gaCanageba. sa-
saciloa am xelisuflebis mxridan
biZina ivaniSvilis ruseTTan urTi-
erTobaze saubari, rodesac ruseTis
pirdapiri agenti benduqiZe mTavro-
baSi uziT.
axla ki imis Sesaxeb visaubroT
ra axal bizness iwyebs batoni ben-
duqiZe, Tumca ufro upriani iqnebo-
da is gamogveZiebina, ra biznesebs
flobs igi ukve im sferoSi, rasac
genomodificirebuli produqtebi
hqvia. arsebobs e.w. kartaxenas oqmi,
romelic meqsikaSia miRebuli da
swored genomodificirebuli pro-
duqciis winaaRmdegaa mimarTuli. am
oqmze TiTqmis yvela evropul qve-
yanas, maT Soris saqarTvelosac
aqvs xeli mowerili, magram ubedu-
rebaa isaa, rom marto xelis mowe-
ra ar kmara. Tu Sesabamisi kanonic
ar iqna miRebuli, es oqmi ar imoq-
medebs.
_ ras iTvaliswinebs xsenebuli
oqmi?
_ rodesac qveyanaSi Semodis ge-
nomodificirebuli produqcia, is
aucileblad markirebuli unda
iyos, anu momxmarebelma unda ico-
des, ras yidulobs. amgvari sakvebi
spobs adamianis janmrTelobas, xo-
lo Tesli aCanagebs soflis meur-
neobas. arsebobs Zalze seriozuli
garemos dacviTi saerTaSoriso or-
ganizacia `foe evropa~, romelmac
daaxloebiT ori Tvis win mogvwera,
rom inglisSi arsebobs Zalze didi
kompania `aqva baunti~, romelic ge-
nomodificirebul oraguls awarmo-
ebs. kaxa benduqiZe molaparakebebs
awarmoebs am kompaniasTan da TiTq-
mis gadawyvetilia, rom mis did
wils yidulobs. rogor fiqrobT
benuqiZe am produqciis bazrad sa-
qarTvelos ar gamoiyenebs? vano me-
rabiSvili xelketebiT asaxiCrebs
da xocavs xalxs, saakaSvili da
misi mTavroba aSimSilebs, benduqiZe
ki genomodificirebuli produqci-
iT mowamlavs da sicocxles Seu-
moklebs.
erT faqts getyviT, ruseTSi
Zalze saintereso kvlevebi Catarda.
virTagvebs genomodificirebuli
soio aWames. am virTagvebis nawili
maleve daixoca. gadarCenilma nawil-
ma Sobadoba moaswro, magram maTi na-
Sierebis nawili daixoca, gadarCeni-
lebi ki sterilurebi darCnen, anu
gamravlebis unari ar hqondaT. tyu-
ilad ki ar amboben evropeli mecni-
erebis TiTqmis 80%, rom genomodi-
ficirebuli produqtebi yovlad sa-
zianoa adamianis janmrTelobisTvis
da gaafrTxileT mainc xalxi ras
aWmevTo. pirvelad xom cxovelebze
tardeba cdebi da am kvlevebma cxad-
yo, rom am produqciis miwodebiT,
STamomavlobasac davkargavT. ai, am
biznesiT cdilobs benduqiZe damate-
biT jibis gasqelebas.
didi eWvi maqvs, rom benduqiZe
manamdec iyo dakavebuli am bizne-
siT, radgan wlebia parlamentSi
iblokeba kartaxenas oqmis Sesabami-
si kanonis miReba. Tavidan `mwvane-
Ta moZraobam~ Seitana es kanonpro-
eqti. Semdeg Tu ar vcdebi qristi-
an-demokratebi muSaobdnen am sa-
kiTxze. bolos nacionali deputa-
ti giorgi goguaZe muSaobda da mi-
si kanonproeqtic ki dablokes. ami-
tomac vfiqrob, rom benuqiZe iyo
da aris erT-erTi imaTTagani vinc
mfarvelobs genomodificirebuli
sakvebis da saTesle produqtis im-
ports saqarTveloSi. mas aqvs udi-
desi gavlena saqarTvelos ekonomi-
kaze, romlisganac mxolod saxelia
darCenili.
es saTesle masala kidev calke
ubedurebaa. Tu sadme daiTesa, mezo-
bel nakveTebzec imtvereba naTesebi
da iq moyvanili produqtic genomo-
dificirebuli xdeba.
_ xelisuflebis mier farTod
reklamirebul hibridulisimindis
programa rogor Caflavda, yvelam
kargad vnaxeT. axla genomodi-
ficirebuli Teslebis Semota-
nas gegmaven?
_ glexebisTvis ZaliT SesaRe-
buli simindis Tesli marTlac hib-
riduli iyo Tu genomodificirebu-
li, es kidev sakiTxavia da getyviT
ratomac. es erTjeradi saTesle ma-
sala (romelic viTomda daurigda
glexebs, sinamdvileSi ki erTi ki-
lo 10 lari Rirda) aris kompania
`pioneris~ produqcia. es kompania
ki im udidesi korporaciis saxe-
lad `monsantos~ filialia, rome-
lic genuri inJineriiT axdens pro-
duqciis damuSavebas da gamoyvanas.
aqedan gamomdinare didi albaToba
arsebobs, rom es Tesli hibriduli
ki ara genomodificirebuli iyo.
saqarTvelos xelisuflebam am sa-
eWvo masalis SemotaniTac didi
fuli iSova da axla cdiloben
STamomavlobis biznesad gadaaqcion.
Tu simindis qarTuli jiSebi dak-
ninda da gaCanagda, mogexsenebaT
xalxs rogor aiZulebdnen hibri-
duli simindis Teslis Sesyidvas,
glexoba maTze damokidebuli rCeba,
radgan maTi moweuli simindi sa-
Tesled ar gamodgeba, yovel wels
xelaxla unda iyidon. Casuli vi-
yavi samegrelosa da aWaraSi, sadac
ver vnaxe adamiani, garda gamgeobe-
bis TanamSromlebisa, romelic
ityoda, rom hibridul siminds
kargi mosavali hqonda. kargi mosa-
vali im SemTxvevaSi modis, Tu in-
struqcias srulad daicaven, magram
amas uamravi damatebiTi xarji
sWirdeba.
uaress getyviT, momavali sezo-
nisTvis xelisufleba genomodifi-
cirebuli soios Teslis Semotanas
apirebs da masac albaT isev motyu-
ebiTa da iZulebiT Seasyidian gle-
xobas. am soiom ki rac damarTa vir-
Tagvebs, ukve giTxariT. albaT Seec-
debian esec hibridul Teslad Se-
atyuon mosaxleobas. amitomac vaf-
rTxileb maT, rom es namdvilad ge-
nomodificirebuli iqneba da nu da-
ujereben. soflis meurneobis sru-
li daqcevis xarjze eseni saSvi-
liSvilo saojaxo bizness iwyoben.
vgulisxmob saakaSvils, gilaurs da
im ramdenime adamians, romelTa ini-
ciativiTac xdeba es yvelaferi Se-
modis.
me am Temaze muSaobas aucileb-
lad gavagrZeleb, radgan arsebobs
Zalze didi eWvebi, rom saqarTve-
loSic arsebobs laboratoriebi,
sadac genuri inJineriiT iqmneba
produqcia. isic gamosaZiebelia
aqamde ra biznesebi hqonda genomo-
dificirebuli produqciis kuTxiT
benduqiZes (ar aris gamoricxuli,
rom genmodificirebuli oraguli
manamdec Semodioda, radgan gayinul
da celofnis parkebSi dafasoebul
oraguls, romelic TbilisSi iyide-
ba usiamovno gemo aqvs da gulZmar-
vasac iwvevs – m.s.), marTlac arse-
bobs Tu ara es laboratoriebi da
vin mfarvelobs maT.
_ es eWvebi saidan gaCnda?
_ amJamad Tavs Sevikaveb im ram-
denime mecnieris dasaxelebisagan,
romlebic genuri inJineriiT miRe-
buli produqciis momxrea. isini
yvela ilias universitetSi muSao-
ben. rogorc giTxariT evropeli
da qarTveli mecnierebis udidesi
nawili genomodificirebuli pro-
duqciis winaaRmdegia, radgan yvela-
nairi cdebiT da gamokvlevebiT dad-
ginda, rom es Zalze cudad moqme-
debs adamianebis janmrTelobaze da
soflis meurneobaze. gigi TevzaZis
xelqveiTi mecnierebs ki, romlebic
sakuTar Tavs liberalebs uwodeben
am produqciis sawinaaRmdego arafe-
ri aqvT. am e.w. liberalebis jgu-
fis sulis Camdgmelebi kaxa bendu-
qiZe, gigi TevzaZe, levan ramiSvili
da Tea TuTberiZe arian. me maT li-
beralebs verafriT davarqmevdi. li-
beraloba sul sxva raRacas niSnavs.
eseni liberalebi ki ara, sruliad
gadagvarebuli xalxia. am `mefis
karze~ gavleniani xalxis jaWvis
rgolebi arian xsenebuli mecniere-
bis mcire jgufic, amitomac ar ga-
movricxav, rom aseTi laboratori-
ebi saqarTveloSi marTlac arsebob-
des da muSaobdes.
manana suxiSvili
kaxa benduqiZegenmodificirebuli
produqciis bizness lobirebs?
30 noembers, oTxSabaTs, samebis
taZris axalgazrdul centrSi
gaimarTeba Sexvedra galaktion
tabiZis premiis laureatTan poet
vaxtang xarCilavasTan.dasawyisi 19.00 saaTze.
daswreba Tavisufalia.
saqarTvelos mweralTa kavSiri
24 saerTo gazeTi #46 (175), 23-25.XI, 2011 w.
saTavo ofisi
WavWavaZis gamz. ¹39a
0162, Tbilisi
tel.: (+995 32) 292 55 92/91/90
(+995 95) 92 55 92
faqsi: (+995 32) 291 22 79
el.fosta: [email protected]
vakis serviscentri
i. abaSiZis q. ¹24
0179, Tbilisi
tel.: (+995 32) 225 06 14/15
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saburTalos
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pekinis q. ¹14b
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tel.: (+995 32) 292 55 92
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mTawmindis filiali
vekuas q. ¹1, 0105, Tbilisi
tel.: (+995 32) 292 55 92/91/90
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el.fosta:
isnis serviscentri
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C M Y K
`asi leqsi, romelic zepirad unda icodes qarTvelma~
_ am rubrikiT garekanis me-22 gverdze moTavsebulia arCi-
lis leqsi `ase sWirs saqarTvelosas, didebulT gana mci-
reTa~...
rubrikiT `ujraSi Caketili leqsebi~ ibeWdeba raJden
gvetaZis leqsi `maro mayaSvils~.
`poetis Tormeti rCeuli leqsi~ _ am rubrikaSi wai-
kiTxavT Temur CalabaSvilisa da mariam wiklauris leqsebs
`axali leqsebis~ rubrikiT gamoqveynebulia elguja marRi-
as da genri doliZis leqsebi.
`gaxsovdes afxazeTi~ _ am rubrikaSi ibeWdeba irma me-
buriSvilis leqsebi.
rubrikaSi `interviu~ gaecnobiT saubars statistikis
departamentis TavmjdomaresTan irakli RvalaZesTan _`av-
torebma unda gaacnobieron sakuTari uflebebi~.
`literaturuli mesxeTis~ rubrikaSi waikiTxavT avTan-
dil beriZis, vaxtang inauris, merab beriZis, alioz okoS-
vilis, beqa oTanaZis, koba modebaZis, Salva keRoSvilis,
Tamar lomiZis, marita jiqias leqsebs da werilebs, agreT-
ve axalcixis universitetis studentebis maia bliaZis, ni-
no jiquraSvilis, nino gvirjiSvilis da nino kaWkaWiSvi-
lis leqsebs.
`Teatri~, `kritika~ _ am rubrikiT warmodgenilia go-
gi doliZis werils `glaxa WriaSvilis arRani anu...~ `pro-
za~ _ am rubrikaSi moTavsebulia mixeil anTaZis moTxro-
ba `ujraSi Caketili romani~ _ am rubrikiT grZeldeba av-
Tandil kvasxvaZis romani `sikvdil-ssicocxlis rokva~.
`memuarebis~ rubrikaSi grZeldeba Cekas pirveli Tavmj-
domaris kote cincaZis mogonebebi.
`asi samarcxvino leqsis~ rubrikiT waikiTxavT giorgi
maisuraZis leqss `damkvrelis sityva~, romelic Jurnal
`proletarul mwerlobaSi~ gamoqveynda 1931 wels.
gamovida Jurnal `ciskris~ me-10 nomeri