an interview with dr jonn mumford llewellyn 2002

8/10/2019 An Interview With Dr Jonn Mumford Llewellyn 2002

1/15

1

An Interview with Dr. Jonn Mumford

by: Donald Kraig for the Llewellyn Journal Posted On: 2002-04-12

in this wide-ranging interview, internationally known author and

lecturer, Dr. Jonn Mumford, reveals some secrets of Tantra. He also

dispels many current myths on this topic.)

1) Dr. Mumford, your initiated name is Swami Anandakapila

Saraswati. Your first book, Psychosomatic Yoga, was published in

1962. At that time there was very little interest in the spirituality of

the East, although it exploded during that decade. Why do you think

the popularity of Eastern spirituality has grown over the past 40

years?

The 1960s represented a tremendous opening of the Western mind

to concepts of Yoga, particularly through the popularisation of

Maharishi and his popular TM movement.

It is interesting to realize that the soil in America had already been

richly fertilized by Swami Vivekananda visiting at the turn of the 19th

century.

The popular belief is thatno-one, outside India, attempted to

practice or integrate Tantra? However in 1906 the "Tantrik Order In

America" was publishing the "International Journal Tantrik Order",

Vira Sadhana, American Edition, Supply Depots, Chicago, Seattle,

New Orleans; Tantrik Press, New York. This is a lush 200 page

journal, with a cover in rich red, gold and black, full of translations

of Tantric texts and articles eulogizing love. I first encountered

this book researching in Carl Llewellyn Weschkes private researchlibrary at his home - and it filled me with awe. The history of this

now defunct order has in the last few years been the topic of several

thesiss.

The founder of the Tantric Order In America was a remarkable

individual who galvanized the American landscape with his exotic


2/15

2

Tantric teaching Oom the Omnipotent and you can find a

detailed history of this seminal figure in American Tantra at

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIII/HTML/Oom.htmla fascinating

history by Hugh B. Urban, Ohio State University.

The amazing work of Pierre Arnold Bernard ("Oom the Omnipotent")

in the 1900s is such that he could correctly be called The Father of

American Yoga and Tantra. Dr Bernard, as he was also was called,

published by 1906 the International Journal of the Tantrik Order. He

truly is a hitherto unacknowledged Father of Yoga and Tantra in

America.

His magnetism drew the intellectually elite and aristocratic from the

Eastern Seaboard of America to him including a collection of

celebrities and the wealthy Vanderbilt family.

This is a photograph appearing in Bernards Tantric Journal (1906)

in which the good Dr. is giving a demonstration of death trance

(Kali Mudra) with his pulse and heart stopped before a panel of
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIII/HTML/Oom.htmlhttp://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIII/HTML/Oom.htmlhttp://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIII/HTML/Oom.html


3/15

3

M.D.s. . Such demonstrations were unheard of outside India and

Bernard had purportedly travelled to India in the late 1800s. Not

until the late 1930s were reports published popularly of such

exploits. Paul Bruntons In Search of Secret Egypt reported the

Sufi, Mohammed Bey, performing equivalent exotic feats.

The Omnipotent Oom, with the patronage of the Vanderbilt family,

established the highly successful Clarkstown Country Club in 1918

which included many of the most famous and prestigious names in

America. Overseas visitors included Sir Paul Dukes, and indeed Sir

Paul was listed on the board of Directors in the early years.

A photo of a Bust residing at the very famous Clarkstown Country

Cluband taken from Life at The Clarkstown Country Club,


4/15

4

Copyrighted 1935 by the Clarkstown Country Club (which went out

of business in the late 1940's).

This and other images are also used on the Vanderbilt University

website.

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/~stringer/pab.htm(Information and Picturescourtesy of Umeshanand and Veenanand, Kailash Center for

Personal Development, NY, New York.)

The opening statement on Vanderbilt University website devoted to

discussing Bernard sums it all up and you can discover, amongst

other things, that Bernard built a library of 7000 personal books at

the Clarkstown Country Club.

The argument that Bernard was really the Father of Tantra and

Yoga in America really gains credibility when his influence lead to

the emergence of Americas greatest Indologist.

This outstanding man was Pierre

Bernards nephew, Theos Bernard

Ph.D., an Indologist with a grasp of

practical Yoga technology exceeded by

none since or before. The bulk of Theos

Bernards work was done in the late

1930s early 1940s.

Unfortunately he was murdered in

India 1947 and thus became the

greatest loss in the tradition of

American Indologists and perhaps the

most tragic loss to the world of Indology.

Given the seeding of America into Eastern spirituality by Bernard

and his nephew

The key to the present awakening and search for meaning through

Yoga probably started in the 1970s with a growing awareness that

materialism and consumerism represented little solace.

Consider the following to statements!

"NOTHING MATTERS" versus "EVERYTHING MATTERS"

Both statements are true - depending on the context.

Dr. Theos Bernard M.A.,

Ph.D., LL.B
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/~stringer/pab.htmhttp://www.vanderbilt.edu/~stringer/pab.htmhttp://www.vanderbilt.edu/~stringer/pab.htm


5/15


6/15

6

2) That first book has now been massively expanded as a new title:

A Chakra & Kundalini Workbook. There are lots of books out there

about chakras and Kundalini. How is this one different?

The success of A Chakra & Kundalini Workbook rests with muchoriginal material, exercises, and techniques that have never been so

explicitly expressed.

The matrix from which the subject matter comes is based upon a

lifetime of my personal initiation by Indian teachers, classical

training and my affiliation with traditional Indian orders.

I have clearly stated that correlating the Chakras with physical

entities is really a clumsy Occidental tendency to find physical

explanations for abstractions about metaphysical realities.

The value of my book is that through working on the techniques and

exercises students come to clearly understand this difference and

that so-called location of the Chakras is really a switch- point to

the realm of the Chakra and not the Chakra itself.

I define a Chakra as possessing the same qualities as the Euclidian

point i.e. a chakra, like the point, has locus or location but not

dimensionality however working with this concept gives rise to

concrete materializations.

This is rather similar to the Architect whose plans exists in his head,

are translated to paper, beginning with the point or first stroke,

and ultimately crystallize into an objective three-dimensional

skyscraper or installation.

3) I note that there is information in your book which I have not

seen in other popular books on the subject. For example, on page

87, you show a diagram which includes two extra chakras, the Surya

Chakra and the Chandra Chakra. What is the purpose of these

chakras and how can the people reading this interview use them?


7/15

7

Surya (Solar) Chakra and Chandra (Lunar) Chakra are really psychic

representations of the Liver (the largest heat producing organ) and

the Spleen (the source of stored red blood cells and the origin of

some complex immune responses in the early years of our life).

Before I explain this it is best to understand that the most

traditional form of Tantra conceptualises seven primary chakras,

based on the seven classical Grahas or planets of Ancient India.

Some systems are designed around nine psychic centers by including

the non-physical nodes of the moon, Rahu and Ketu, which are

recognized entities in Jyotish.

The enclosed photograph of a rare painting is from the late Dr.

Swami Gitanandas wall paintings at his first Ashram, which is now a

Madam or graveyard for Tamil saints.

The Seven classical Chakras of Tantra

are depicted here and we can learn much from this encapsulation.The serpents on either side represent the Ida and Pingala psychic

flows that are simultaneously coiled and straight channels

something I demonstrate in my courses to students.


8/15

8

Looking at the left hand seven-headed serpent reveals the secret

that the main contact points for all the chakras is really subsumed in

Sahasrara or the seventh chakra.

The pyramidal formation represents the ascent of Shakti from thebase to a fine point of concentration at the top. This is the original

Pyramid Power secret for the Sadhaka engaged in Om-Kara kriyaa

TMforms a pyramid with his body thus moving energy from below to

above.

Individual systems developed that enumerate many more Chakras

which are really minor (in some cases not so minor!) or sub

chakras.

My first Guru, the late Dr. Swami Maharishi Gitananda Giri, taught a

system of twelve chakras and these are based on the traditional

twelve signs (Lagnas or ascendant signs) and houses (Bhavas) of

Jyotish or Vedic Astrology.

Dr. Swami Maharishi Gitananda Giri Mahasamadhi 1993

When we examine the photograph of another rare picture taken

from Swamijiis Ashram wall showing the five head Chakras in his

system we can gain an understanding of meaning within meaning!

This painting exists in Pondicherry, Tamil Nadu, close to his burial or

Samadhi site. As you may well guess the symbology of this beautiful

painting is extremely complex.


9/15

9

At Bihar school of Yoga we utilize a scheme of eleven chakras based

on the dynamic Kriya Yoga taught there.

We should realise when talking about Chakras that the Tantric

concepts are intrinsically intertwined with Ayurvedic (Indian system

of Medicine) and Indian Astronomical or Jyotish schools.

Indeed even the most popular depictions of the yantras orgeometrical shapes allocated to the Padmas are based on

astronomical observations BCE by the ancient Hindu sages. Such

observations also formed the basis for the number of Dalas or petals

allocated to each Chakra.


10/15

10

The practical application of the Chakra mapping is exemplified by the

further enumeration of 108 (South India) Marmas or vital points

utilized by Indian Martial Artists (Kalarippayattu is the tradition

which is said to be the origin of all martial arts) and practitioners of

Indian acupressure and acupuncture (Bhedana Karma)

When discussing Chakras it is also important to understand that any

given chakra has multiple names and often Chakras exist in

combination with sub chakras.

For example the Manipura Chakra with its location between the

navel and the tip of the breast bone is also called the Nabhi

(navel) Chakra and Surya Chakra on the right along with the twin

Chandra Chakra on the left are really extensions or ramifications of

the force field represented by Manipura Chakra.

So at a therapeutic level the locations of Surya Chakra and Chandra

Chakra represent key marmas or vital points which if massaged can

benefit respectively liver and splenic malfunctions. This is

something that is best left to Ayurvedic and Yogic specialists who

give such treatments.

However those that peruse Chapter 14 in A Chakra & Kundalini

Workbook will quickly discover a Tantric secret regarding what we

might term psychic acupuncture: i.e. Bhedana is a mental

piercing of the focused consciousness, as well as a physical piercing,

and thus an etheric Rose can be used to penetrate Surya Chakra

and Chandra Chakra to balance out disorders associated with these

Marma points.

As a passing comment it might be noted that Chandra Chakra

became the Spleen Chakra of the Theosophists under the direction

of Bishop Leadbeater.

4) On page 175 you discuss the four brainwave states, alpha through

delta, which relate to levels of consciousness. As you know, there


11/15

11

are machines, which flash lights into your eyes and sounds into your

ears in an effort to help you reach these levels, especially the deeper

levels. These machines cost hundreds of dollars. Yet your book

claims that the same thing can be done through the practice of Yoga

Nidra. The book has instructions for this practice, but can you giveus the theory behind Yoga Nidra and how it works?

Yoga Nidra is the most stunning practice because it moves the

attention so rapidly through the body that you do not have time to

get bored or restless thus the brain wave patterns spontaneously

change from active, agitated Beta Wave to creative, nurturing Alpha

and Theta Wave oscillations.

Understanding the implications of Yoga Nidra, can best be

understood from the following research paper reproduced with the

kind permission of Bihar School of Yoga, Monghyr, Bihar South-East

India. This is early research done by the University branch of Bihar

School.

******************************************************

. Brain Electrical Mapping During Yoga Nidra

Prof. Stoami Mangaltheertham (A. K Ghosh), Ph.D. Head of

Department of Applied Sciences,Bihar Yoga Bharati, Alfungff, India.Yoga Nidra is a yogic practice developed by Paramahamsa

Satyananda and promoted by the Bihar School of Yoga. It is a

systematic method of inducing deep mental, emotional and physical

relaxation. Yoga Nidra is usually performed in the yoga pose

Shavasana (supine with the arms to the sides and palms upwards),

but it is often performed with the subject seated.

The first characteristic feature of yoga Nidra is the systematic

rotation of awareness through the different parts of the body. This

originated from the tantric practice of Nyasa, in which a seated yogi

would, in ritual fashion, place or feel specific mantras (sound

vibrations) at different parts of the body.

The second feature of the practice is a period of visualization,

usually of symbols or scenes selected by the yoga teacher from a


12/15

12

standard series set out in the Bihar School of Yoga publication Yoga

Nidra. Instructions are normally given by a yoga teacher or a tape

recording. With experience the subject can give instruction mentally

to him or herself.

During the normal decent from wakefulness to deep sleep the brain

wave frequency changes from fast beta waves of more than 14

cycles per second, to alpha waves of 7-14 cps, then to theta of 4-7

cps and lastly to delta of 0-4 cps.

The difference between sleep and yoga Nidra is claimed to be that in

yoga Nidra an intermediate platform of alpha wave predominance

associated with relaxation, is created between the beta wave

patterns of the wakeful state and the slow delta rhythm of deep

sleep. The result of this is said to be profound relaxation of mental,

emotional and muscular tension.

It was our intention to verify whether these changes did take place,

reasoning that if they did, then a corresponding alteration of EEG

should be detected.

The study took place in January 1988 at the Charing Cross Medical

School in London, UK. 34 female subjects, all right-handed, were

divided into three groups:

Group I consisted of experienced yoga practitioners selected from a

pool of volunteers associated with Swami Pragyamurti of the

Satyananda Yoga Center in London. Group 2 subjects consisted of

Charing Cross medical students, with no previous experience of

meditation or yoga; randomly selected.

Group 3 was a 'control' group of medical students drawn from the

same pool as group 2.

All subjects were studied while seated in a sound attenuated, light

controlled neurophysiologic chamber (Faraday cage). Data was

taken by means of a Brain Electrical Activity Mapping (BEAM)

instrument, manufactured by Neuroscience Pty Ltd, USA. This

instrument transforms brain electrical activity from the three


13/15

13

dimensional curved surface of the scalp and cortex, to a two

dimensional color image on a computer screen, with an outline of

the physical head at the center. Input was derived from 26

electrodes on the scalp.

At the commencement of each session subjects were asked to sit

quietly for five minutes with their eyes open whilst basal data was

recorded on computer disc. Subjects were then asked to gaze at a

target and suppress their eye blinking until one minute of artefact-

free recording was established. verbal communication ceased and

the lighting was dimmed.

Group I (experienced yogis) and group 2 (inexperienced) then

listened to a tape recording of a yoga Nidra practice with the eyes

closed. The practice had four sections: progressive awareness of the

parts of the right side of the body from the fingers, through the arm,

to the legs and toes; followed by awareness of the left side (100

seconds duration each side); then awareness of the face, chest,

back, abdomen and thighs (155 seconds duration); and finally a

visualization process which included images of walking through the

mountains, on a beach, and returning to home (255 seconds

duration).

Group 3 listened to a 'control' tape by the same speaker, using the

same tone and rate of speech. The subject matter concerned the

physiology of meditation.

After listening to the tape, subjects were again asked to sit quietly

while basal data was recorded. Subjects who had listened to the

yoga Nidra tape were questioned as to the nature of the

visualizations in order to determine whether the subjects had fallen

asleep.

While practicing yoga Nidra both group I and group 2 subjects

showed a normal increase in the alpha activity in the eyes closed

state; their, at the beginning of the rotation of consciousness, there

was an increase in the alpha activity on both sides of the brain; by

the time the subjects entered the visualization, this alpha activity

had spread further. At this stage, delta acti,,itN, appeared in the


14/15

14

right hemisphere of the brain. Gradually this delta activity became

more conspicuous in both hemispheres, representing a very calm

state by the end of the visualization and yoga Nidra.

The emergence of slow-rhythm delta waves during visualizationshowed the brain passed into a state electrically equivalent to deep

sleep. However, most of the subjects with yoga experience (group

1) remained perfectly aware throughout the entire experimental

period, as shown by the fact that they had a good recall of the

scenes from the period of visualization. The study also revealed that

yoga a-a brings simultaneous activation and relaxation in both

hemispheres of the brain, which tinder normal circumstances seldom

operate with such balance.

By the end of the visualization a synchronized, very slow and low

activity of the brain in both hemispheres was clearly recorded. This

suggests that yoga Nidra is a 'sleepless sleep' because we enter the

state equivalent to sleep while maintaining clear awareness.

c Saraswati Swami Satyananda, Yoga Nidra, Bihar School of Yoga,

Munger, India 1984.

c Anon B.K. et al. 'Some aspects of EEG studies on yogis', EEG and

Clin. Neurophysiol. 1961; 13; 452-456.

**********************************************

5) Perhaps the best-known association of colors with the chakras,

moving from root to crown, is red, orange, yellow, green, blue,

indigo, violet. However, on page 194, you give the colors yellow,

silver, red, blue, black, white, and red. Why the differences?

Because the traditional chakras are not colored according to the

ascending color spectrum that is really a Western insertion not

without some merit, as the chakras represent an ascending

hierarchy of vibration mirrored by infrared to ultraviolet.

The traditional colors seen on the inner plane are according to the

elements dominating each chakra: e.g. Yellow is the element Earth

and is foundational for the growth of Muladhara.


15/15

15

8) Dr. Mumford, you are probably most famous for your book,

Ecstasy through Tantra, one of the most popular books on the

subject today. You are certainly an initiated Tantric. For mostpeople, Tantra equates with extended and spiritualized sexuality.

However, in this book the focus is on personal development,

spirituality, healing, etc. Would you call this book Tantric?

Yes, A Chakra & Kundalini Workbook is really a bridge between

Eastern and Western Systems.

The front cover is a depiction of this blend as it shows

the basic Chakra map of Tantra superimposed over

the Tree of Life glyph of Kabala. This is the mysteryof turning 7 into 10 and 10 back to 7. Close

observation shows that the first two Chakras,governed by Earth and Water, have parallels with the

two lower Sephira: Malkoot and Yesode.By pushing the Sephirot together, on each side pillar,

into the central pillaryou will see how the 7 Chakras emerge.

This demonstrates a geometrical and conceptualequivalence between Western Magic and Eastern

Tantra in regard to psychic mapping of human.This diagram, is extracted from a prototype paintedfor me in 1977 at the Gnostica Festival, St Paul, byMargery Yeow. Margerys original creation was used

for many years by Llewellyn publishers as a frontcover gracing Israel Regardiess A Garden of

Pomegranates.

A generalization that might be made about thesimilarities concerns the remarkable recognition in

both systems of psychic centers or key energyspheres within the subtle structure of humans.

an interview with dr jonn mumford llewellyn 2002

Documents