best method for normalizing DJ mix? 18 replies

fabriknos

over 4 years ago

i'm sure this is a duplicate thread, so apologies for that, but wanted to get some newer opinions and advice. i am having trouble getting my DJ mixes to sound balanced. i find myself wanting to go track by track to make volume adjustments but with this method you start to lose the vibe of the mix and it just feels like too much interference. however, every normalizing attempt i've done lately has just made the loud parts louder and has not evenly distributed volume throughout the mix. very frustrating.

i use two Mac based audio editors: Logic Pro 8 (it's ok) and Wave Editor (love it). for plugins i have the Korg Legacy Collection and NI Komplete, but no real good editing tools in there. does anyone use this software, and have any suggestions for a good strategy for normalizing mixes?

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AMJacker

over 4 years ago

I didn't know this was a thing. I've never adjusted anything post-mix. Isn't "keeping your levels even" part of mixing?

I'm about to start posting "Podcasts" and am wondering about it now. I have 3 ready to go but I'm going to re-listen to them.

and what do you mean by "sound balanced"? Do you mean Volume or L/R?

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Surt

over 4 years ago

Although I'm no expert on doing this, I think AMJacker is right that getting levels right while you're mixing is the right idea. However, obviously you may wish to tweak them subsequently, and what I do is draw in some subtle volume automations in Ableton Live (which is what I use to record my mixes). Once I am satisfied that the levels are satisfactory, I'll then bring up the whole mix a bit with some gentle compression.

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ogshags

over 4 years ago

its best to get it right the first time

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cypherism

over 4 years ago cypherism edited over 4 years ago

Its harder to level em out, the more minimal the tracks

Track with bass n drums etc = a certain loudness Track with less drums n noise = a bigger bass so it booms in comparison If that makes sense eg Mix the sound of a bomb into a watch ticking, you don't want the ticking as loud as the bomb but thats what software would do Best by ear beforehand computers don't take into account what it is just how loud it is Shock horror ! Humans needed

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truly-madly

over 4 years ago

I prefer mixes with peaks and troughs in volume anyway (within reason).

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DJFrodo

over 4 years ago DJFrodo edited over 4 years ago

I've been using Magix's audio cleaning Lab, i'll send ya a link.

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SeRKeT

over 4 years ago

i just normalize or use a volume setting for the pieces that are low by selecting an area in soundforge, it can take time on a 2 hour mix but can be nicer for playback so you don't have to keep altering the volume

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

of course it's best to get it right the first time! but unfortunately when you are in the moment and not really paying attention to volume, you may push a track too hard, or you may be playing an older track and it sounds good to your ears, but when listening to the recording it sounds way too quiet or muffled. i would like to find a way - other than manual track-by-track editing - to normalize a mix in a way that caps the peaks at a certain threshold and brings up everything below that to the same threshold.

SeRKeT - what settings do you put in your normalizer? i don't think you are doing it the way i would like, which is to select the entire mix at once and apply just one normalizing pass on it. but if you do normalize this way, i'd love to know what are the best settings for what i'm trying to accomplish.

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

Surtwhat I do is draw in some subtle volume automations in Ableton Live (which is what I use to record my mixes)

that's a good suggestion, and i considered doing this in Logic but haven't gotten around to it yet. even a simple program like Acid could do this as well. i'll have to try that... i think 'drawing' volume is a lot more effective than leaving it up to the computer to figure out what volume should be anyways.

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Skillet

over 4 years ago

there's a little tool for that in Audacity too, the button has a blue line with a dot and a triangle above and below it. I usually just select, find zero crossings and normalize for this purpose though. You can kind of see on the waveform if you were staying steady or if you were gradually getting louder/quieter throughout the mix, I think it's probably best

to adjust only if there's some kind of overall trend like that, not on a track to track basis or anything.

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mikeburns

over 4 years ago

fabriknosi would like to find a way - other than manual track-by-track editing - to normalize a mix in a way that caps the peaks at a certain threshold and brings up everything below that to the same threshold.

that would be a limiter/compressor. i use neither logic nor wave editor but i assume they have these things. don't know how big the jumps in volume are in your mix, i wouldnt remove the whole dynamic range. run your mix through the limiter with the threshhold set a couple db below your highest peaks, which results in reducing their volume (i would use a fairly high ratio, short attack and medium decay time, these you have to try and test till you like the sound). once thats done peak-normalize the whole thing to 0db. should lower the jumps in volume but leave a certain dynamic range.

or i guess logic might even have something like a master dynamic processing tool that will both limit and compress at the same time, meaning you wont have to normalize after limiting, i use the Waves L2 VST (already old, guess theres newer things that do the same)

but be aware that dynamic processing will alter the dynamic/sound of the source material... depends on you if you wanna use it, cue the whole brick wall discussion. radio uses it massively to avoid any jumps in volume...

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Manys

over 4 years ago

AMJackerIsn't "keeping your levels even" part of mixing?

This. You can use a compressor if you want, but it's going to change the sound of the tracks themselves, which have already been compressed.

What you need is practice in watching your levels. I suggest starting by closing your eyes while you mix.

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

i always need practice. i've been DJ'ing for 5 years and producing for 14 and i'm always looking for new techniques to make my stuff sound better. i should have given some more back story before asking this question... i know all about compression and limiting, overall mixing theory in a studio environment. but an hour long DJ mix incorporating all sorts of styles and vinyl qualities is a little bit different and requires a different approach than what i've done traditionally with standalone tracks. that's why i'm looking for advice here. i definitely want to keep any editing on the gentle side. it's not to remove errors, but to enhance the impact and prevent volume twiddling during playback. there is a lot of gray area between getting lost in your mix and being super attentive to sound quality the whole time. i find myself more in the former group than the latter. i get into it and often forget where i started off at, volume-wise at least. i don't like looking at a computer screen if i can help it, i trust my ears, but after a few beers my ears start to deceive me ;)

i should just be happy with the recordings and not stress, i'm just too anal for my own good.

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SeRKeT

over 4 years ago

seeing as you already understand limiting/compression to an extent i would suggest my method, just find the low pieces and carefully raise their volume, i would not advise using any kind of compression on a whole mix really especially when using various styles of music in the mix as the dynamics would be truly lost in some points although parts of the mix may sound great LOL, i have seen what limiters and compressors can do when used on large rigs, sometimes the tops drop out due to varying mastering methods used with vinyl so as i say if you do meddle with the mix afterwards be careful ;)

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

oh i will be. i'm going to play around with a 2 hour mix i recorded a couple weeks ago, will be loading it in Logic and drawing volume automation. then i'm going to do another edit afterwards with limiting & compression and compare the two results. i'm sure the volume automation will sound more natural, it's just a matter of having the patience ;)

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vinyl_junkie07

over 4 years ago

Normalizing isn't compression so it wont effect the dynamics as much as a compressor would and certainly won't ever pump. That's not to say it sounds any good ;-) Normalization finds the highest peak in your track and raises that to whatever setting you are normalizing to (usually 0 db). It also raises the rest of the track by the same amount. So, for example, if the highest peak in your track is -2db, normalizing to 0db will raise everything in the track by 2db. If you normalize to 0db (or something less, like -0.3db) you should not be getting any "red lights", since by default all material will be below that point.

If you look at normalizing as the process of making your loudest peak, your loudest possible peak, then it isn't really useful. But if you look at normalizing as setting a level, and then all audio gets turned down and/or up to match that level then it can be really useful in certain situations, especially if you can not only normalize by peak value, but by RMS as well.

Thing is most DJ's now days don't even know how to work a mixer...All you have to do is look in your nearest DJ booth and you will find a DJM more than often lit up like a x-mass tree all the way into the red and beyond on every channel and master lol

I love working the levels on the Urei 1620, a lot of pro old skool DJ's do this too. I don't see how you can loose track of levels with mixers no with all the VU metering out there and gain controls. Some final light mastering though doesnt go a miss though some light limiting or eq

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

vinyl_junkie07But if you look at normalizing as setting a level, and then all audio gets turned down and/or up to match that level then it can be really useful in certain situations

This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish but no combination of settings with my normalizing tools creates this effect. It just makes everything louder or everything quieter. It doesn't intelligently raise some parts and lower other parts.

Say the highest peak is -0.1db. And the lowest is -4.0db. If I set the threshold at -1.0db, all it does is make the loudest peaks a bit quieter, and does nothing significant to the parts already quiet.

I guess what I'm looking for is "adaptive gain". A tool that finds the middle ground between the peaks and the valleys, essentially. Unless I'm totally using my plugins wrong, normalizing does not accomplish this effect.

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fabriknos

over 4 years ago

vinyl_junkie07

Thing is most DJ's now days don't even know how to work a mixer...All you have to do is look in your nearest DJ booth and you will find a DJM more than often lit up like a x-mass tree all the way into the red and beyond on every channel and master lol

yes, i fucking hate it when i see this... i make it a point never to approach red. my Xone:S2 has built-in limiters i can engage if i have some rowdy DJ's over but usually i just set the master out to a few dB below 0, and when the signal reaches my audio interface, i adjust volume as loud as i want without clipping. the KRKs can take a beating i will say that much.