date:august 27, 2012 - wordpress.com · 2013-01-13 · 2 (pages 5 to 8) transcript of daniel j....

Transcript of

Daniel J. Curtin

Date:August 27, 2012

_______________________________________

Phone: 1-866-337-6778 Fax: 410-268-7006

Email: [email protected]: www.corbinandhook.com

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1 (Pages 1 to 4)

Transcript of Daniel J. CurtinTaken August 27, 2012

410-268-6006 1-866-337-6778Corbin and Hook Reporting

Page 1

AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION IN THE MATTER OF ARBITRATION BETWEEN

RUSSELL RZEMIEN, ET AL.,

Claimants, Case No.

vs. 16527E0019212

AQUAGUARD WATERPROOFING, INC.,

Respondent.

_____________________________/

Pursuant to Notice, the deposition ofDANIEL J. CURTIN was taken on Monday, August27th, 2012, commencing at 10:40 a.m., at theoffices of Hillman, Brown & Darrow, PA, 221Duke of Gloucester Street, Annapolis, Maryland21401, before Kathryn M. Benhoff, NotaryPublic.

Corbin & Hook Reporting, Inc. Annapolis, MD 21401-9996

1 A P P E A R A N C E S2 ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANTS:3 MICHAEL P. DARROW, ESQUIRE4 Hillman, Brown & Darrow, PA5 221 Duke of Gloucester Street6 Annapolis, Maryland 214017 410-263-31318 ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT:9 DAVID L. RUBINO, ESQUIRE

10 McCarthy, Wilson, LLP11 2200 Research Drive12 Rockville, Maryland 2085013 ALSO PRESENT:14 Jack Buchanan15 Kathleen Rzemien16 Russell Rzemien1718192021

Page 3

1 I N D E X2 Name of Witness3 DANIEL J. CURTIN4 Examination: Page5 By Mr. Darrow 46 By Mr. Rubino 4478 Exhibits (Not Attached):9 Exhibit 1 - Interior Drain Tile Side View 36

10 Drawing1112131415161718192021

Page 4

1 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that

2 the reading and signing of this deposition are

3 waived.

4 DANIEL J. CURTIN,

5 duly been sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth,

6 and nothing but the truth, testifies as follows:

7 E X A M I N A T I O N

8 BY MR. DARROW:

9 Q. Okay. State your full name, sir.

10 A. Daniel Joseph Curtin.

11 Q. And by whom are you employed at this time?

12 A. Self.

13 Q. Self-employed?

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Do you have a name for your company?

16 A. No, not at this time.

17 Q. And are you in the waterproofing industry?

18 A. Yes, I am.

19 Q. How long have you been in that?

20 A. About 28 years.

21 Q. And are you the sole owner --

2 (Pages 5 to 8)



Page 5

1 A. Yes.2 Q. -- of your company? Okay. When I ask3 questions, just to make it easy for her, let me4 finish the complete question and then otherwise,5 you've said yes in the middle of my question, so it6 just makes it easier.7 A. Okay.8 Q. Were you ever an employee of AquaGuard9 Waterproofing?

10 A. Yes.11 Q. And when were you employed by them?12 A. '92.13 Q. I'm sorry?14 A. 1992. Started in '92.15 Q. Until when?16 A. 2010, I believe.17 Q. All right. And why did you leave them?18 A. Just burnt out. Time for a change.19 Q. Okay. So when you left, you started your20 own company?21 A. No, I did some freelance work, but no, I

Page 6

1 never really started a company, per se.2 Q. What was the nature of the freelance work3 that you did?4 A. Inspections similar to Rzemiens'5 situation. You know, help people figure out the6 problems and things of that nature.7 Q. When you say problems, you're referring8 to --9 A. Service problems, if the job was completed

10 or, you know, consulting work.11 Q. Hold on. Remember what I said earlier12 about our conversation has to be conducted a little13 bit differently?14 A. Okay.15 Q. Instead of chatting, which I would love to16 do --17 A. Okay.18 Q. -- she'll start hollering at us and then19 gets real mean and ugly, but -- so let me just make20 sure I finish the question, and it'll take a little21 bit longer, but we just got to do it that way. When

Page 7

1 you said freelance work and consulting, did that

2 primarily relate to waterproofing issues?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. I take it you've been in the

5 waterproofing end of the construction business

6 almost your entire professional career?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. Okay. And you're familiar, then, with all

9 the practices and procedures?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. And for what it's worth, you're

12 doing very good, just the way we got to do it to get

13 through it. Okay. At some point, I get the

14 impression you stopped the freelancing and you did

15 start a business of your own?

16 A. No.

17 Q. So you have been free, you're, this

18 freelancing and consulting that you referred to has

19 continued up to this date?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. And with respect to the Rzemiens'

Page 8

1 property, you were called in as a consultant, I take

2 it?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Okay. You weren't employed by AquaGuard?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Okay. When you were an employee of

7 AquaGuard, what was your title there?

8 A. Project manager.

9 Q. And can you give, tell me what your job

10 description was?

11 A. Running crews and doing inspections.

12 Q. When you were there, did AquaGuard sub out

13 any of their work?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What portion of the work did they sub out?

16 A. Installations of the waterproofing

17 systems.

18 Q. Okay. And in this case, I presume you're

19 aware the work was subbed out?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. Okay. To Mr. Kevin London?

3 (Pages 9 to 12)



Page 9

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. And did you know him before?

3 A. No, I did not.

4 Q. Have they always subbed out the

5 installation of these systems?

6 A. No, not totally. They had in-house crews

7 as well.

8 Q. Okay. So when you were working with them,

9 you indicated you were the project manager?

10 A. Right.

11 Q. That was project manager for in-house

12 crews or were you --

13 A. Both for myself and -- both. Utility men.

14 Q. You would act as sort of a liaison or

15 quality control inspector for AquaGuard when you

16 were working with them for subcontractors and if

17 they were outside to make sure that they were

18 complying with the standards set by AquaGuard?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Okay. Now, today, then, you're not

21 involved, and since you terminated with AquaGuard,

Page 10

1 you have continued to be simply a consultant, not

2 involved in any hands on construction?

3 A. Right.

4 Q. Okay. Are you a member of any

5 professional associations?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Are there professional associations in

8 your business?

9 A. Professional associations?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Not that I'm aware of.

12 Q. When we talk about your business, what

13 would you say your business is?

14 A. Foundation waterproofing

15 Q. And in this instance, did AquaGuard

16 contact you to do an assessment or inspection of the

17 property?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Who contacted you?

20 A. Mr. Buchanan.

21 Q. And what's Mr. Buchanan's, from your

Page 11

1 knowledge, association with AquaGuard?

2 A. General manager.

3 Q. Does he have any ownership interest in the

4 company, if you know?

5 A. Not that to my knowledge.

6 Q. Okay. And how long have you known

7 Mr. Buchanan in his capacity as general manager of

8 AquaGuard?

9 A. Five, six years.

10 Q. So he'd been general manager of AquaGuard

11 for the last five to six years as far as you know?

12 A. As far as I know.

13 Q. Okay. Do you know what his job

14 description was from what you can see?

15 A. His job -- I --

16 Q. His job description at AquaGuard. What

17 did he do?

18 A. Ran the company.

19 Q. Okay. Was there anybody higher up than

20 him in the company that you know of?

21 A. No.

Page 12

1 Q. So Mr. Buchanan called you, and what is it

2 he asked you to do with respect to the Rzemien

3 property?

4 A. Inspect the job.

5 Q. And when did he do that?

6 A. I don't recall. It's been a while.

7 Q. Relative to the work that Kevin London

8 did, can you say if, is it possible to say

9 approximately when you came and looked at the job

10 relative to when Kevin London did the work?

11 A. Few months, maybe.

12 MR. RUBINO: Are you asking before the

13 work was done, after the work was done?

14 A. After the work was done.

15 Q. Yeah, you went out there, first of all, I

16 presume after the work had been completed?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. Okay. Were you able to assess from

19 looking at it based on your -- go back for a second.

20 You've been in the business for 30 years?

21 A. Twenty-eight years.

4 (Pages 13 to 16)



Page 13

1 Q. Twenty-eight. Were you able to assess how

2 long the work had been done or completed?

3 Approximately.

4 A. Thirty, 40 days.

5 Q. And what is it that Mr. Buchanan asked you

6 to do with respect to looking at the property?

7 A. Just take a look at the material that was

8 painted on the wall, the tar that was painted on the

9 wall and see how to extract it.

10 Q. Was he asking you for a solution?

11 A. Solution.

12 Q. Would it be fair to say so you don't have

13 to spend a whole bunch of time on it that putting

14 tar on that wall was the wrong thing to do?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Have you ever seen anybody in your 28

17 years put tar on a wall --

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. -- in that condition inside?

20 A. Yes. We've uncovered those problems.

21 Q. Uncovered, you say you've uncovered the

Page 14

1 problems?

2 A. (Witness nodding affirmatively.)

3 Q. Who did you speak to besides Mr. Buchanan

4 at AquaGuard?

5 A. Nobody I remember.

6 Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Spain?

7 A. Not that I recall.

8 Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Collins?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Okay. I take it you spoke with

11 Mr. Rzemien?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. You never spoke to Miss Rzemien?

14 A. Once on the phone, just to --

15 Q. But in terms of substantive?

16 A. No.

17 Q. No. Okay. Did you ever give a written

18 proposed solution to Mr. Buchanan or AquaGuard on

19 how to deal with the tar that had been put on the

20 wall?

21 A. No.

Page 15

1 Q. Do you know, can you say why?2 A. I wasn't given an opportunity.3 Q. Okay. So you never gave an oral proposal,4 either?5 A. No.6 Q. Okay. And when you say you were never7 given an opportunity, can you explain that?8 A. That was in, I was in early stages of it9 and I spoke to Mr. Rzemien a few times, but I never

10 got a response. I didn't know if I was going to go11 forward with it or if they got another company to do12 the work. I was in the research stage.13 Q. Okay. And how long --14 A. Proper materials.15 Q. I'm sorry?16 A. The proper way of extracting from the17 wall.18 Q. How long were you in the research stage?19 A. I'd say at least a few weeks.20 Q. When was the last time that you saw in21 your 28 years this type of material being put on an

Page 16

1 interior wall?

2 A. A tar product? Probably about a month

3 ago.

4 Q. Is it something that you see very often?

5 A. On occasion, older houses. Back then,

6 they didn't really care. They just rolled tar on

7 the wall. They thought that was a solution to

8 dampness, the average lay person or homeowner did.

9 Q. I take it you're familiar with the

10 product, I never knew anything about it before this,

11 but Aquafin?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And can you tell me what you understand is

14 unique to that product Aquafin, if anything?

15 A. It's a, what it is is a cementitious

16 product that you apply to the wall, damp walls, stop

17 the penetration of moisture through the walls.

18 Q. Prior to going to the property, were you

19 apprised of whatever issues Mr. Rzemien had raised

20 with AquaGuard regarding the performance of work at

21 the property?

5 (Pages 17 to 20)



Page 17

1 A. No.

2 Q. What is it that Frank Buchanan --3 A. John Buchanan.

4 Q. John, I'm sorry. You're John?5 MR. BUCHANAN: John. They call me Jack.

6 Q. Jack. Okay. What is it that he told you7 -- tell me what he told you or asked you, either8 way.9 A. To look at the project and see what we can

10 do with it.

11 Q. Did --12 A. Draw --

13 Q. I'm sorry?14 A. Draw my own conclusion.

15 Q. Did Jack give you any documents or e-mails16 or photographs or any info from Rzemiens or any17 other source?18 A. Not that I recall.

19 Q. Okay. So it would be fair to say that at20 the time you inspected the property, you had not21 seen the contract or any writings or anything at

Page 18

1 all?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. Okay. Now, you went to Mr. Rzemien's

4 property and met him on January 5th, 2012, the first

5 time; is that correct?

6 A. Yeah, I believe so.

7 Q. Okay. Was anybody from AquaGuard there

8 with you at that time?

9 A. No.

10 Q. So it was just you and Mr. Rzemien?

11 A. No, actually, I had a gentleman with me, a

12 helper with me that day.

13 Q. In your business, then, you have a single

14 employee?

15 A. No, we just did another inspection and he

16 was, just happened to be with me that day.

17 Q. What's his name?

18 A. His name is -- he has a nickname. He

19 doesn't work for me. He's just a person I brought

20 with me.

21 Q. Is he anybody that has any particular

Page 19

1 professional skills?

2 A. No, no.

3 Q. So he's more like just labor?

4 A. Labor.

5 Q. Okay. I don't care about that. So did

6 you make any notes that day, if you recall?

7 A. I don't recall.

8 Q. You I presume conducted some kind of

9 inspection of the exterior of the property?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. And then you conducted an inspection of

12 the interior of the property?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. Do you recall observing the four inch ADS

15 corregated pipe entering the sump?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And do you know or have any knowledge of

18 what the acronym ADS stands for?

19 A. It stands for advanced drainage system,

20 but that's just a name.

21 Q. And it's a standard, the four inch

Page 20

1 standard name is what's used in --2 A. Corregated.3 Q. -- every system that's out there?4 A. That's correct.5 Q. Is it correct to say it's used in new6 houses as much as in old houses?7 A. Correct.8 Q. And I presume that in every instance when9 you're talking about a drainage system, you're

10 talking about the -- it's also called drain tile?11 A. Drain tile, right.12 Q. I guess that's in my -- I always thought13 that's a little bit of a misnomer, isn't it?14 A. Right.15 Q. There's no tile there?16 A. Right. It goes back to the --17 Q. The old days?18 A. Yeah, right.19 Q. In the old days, it was actual probably20 ceramic --21 A. Terra cotta.

6 (Pages 21 to 24)



Page 21

1 Q. -- or some kind of clay type -- terra

2 cotta. Okay. Now, the pipe, ADS, drain tile --

3 we'll call it ADS -- that always is perforated --

4 A. Right.

5 Q. -- to allow water to --

6 A. That's correct.

7 Q. You got to say yes.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. You can't -- and why is it perforated?

10 A. To collect water from below the floor

11 level.

12 Q. How many sumps do you recall seeing down

13 there, one or two?

14 A. I believe one.

15 Q. You don't recall a second sump?

16 A. No, I can't, I can't remember.

17 Q. Okay. Do you recall that one of the ADS

18 pipes was perforated and the other one was solid?

19 A. No.

20 Q. You have no recollection of seeing that?

21 A. No.

Page 22

1 Q. Would it be fair to say that in order to

2 observe that condition would require maybe a close

3 look, flashlights and stuff like that?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. Because it's kind of down in a sump pit?

6 A. Right.

7 Q. And the sump pit that these pipes go into

8 is kind of like, it's a black plastic tub, right?

9 A. Right.

10 Q. Okay. Are they always essentially the

11 same? Like the one in my -- I'm having a house

12 built right now. It's a tub about this big around

13 and it looks like it's about that deep and it's --

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. Okay. And holes are cut into the sides

16 for the perforated pipe to where the water works its

17 way in, goes into the tub, right?

18 A. Right.

19 Q. Okay. I take it that those tubs are

20 intended to collect water. They're not supposed to

21 have holes in them or anything, other than the holes

Page 23

1 where the pipes come in?2 A. That's not correct. They're perforated to3 accept water from around the well, not just what's,4 you know, direct from the pipes. They're5 perforated.6 Q. And is that pre-perforated by the7 manufacturer?8 A. No, no, perforated on the job site.9 Q. Okay. And what is it --

10 A. It's they're collection pits. Any water11 that's in -- let's say the water comes up, high12 water table, so it can enter into the well from13 below.14 Q. Okay. And is the perforations done at15 some level down from the top of the tub?16 A. Couple inches from the bottom and then at17 four, five, six inches.18 Q. And how many of these perforations are19 placed -- first of all, who decides if additional20 perforation should be added?21 A. The foreman.

Page 24

1 Q. And what is that based on?2 A. That's based on the water table -- well,3 water table, No. 1. The water's rising. Otherwise,4 the water would have to rise up, you know, a foot or5 two feet to run into the sump well, into the6 drainpipe, so you perforate it so the water collects7 into the basin down below.8 Q. Now, how far down, you said the9 perforations go how far down the tub?

10 A. Right from the bottom. Let's say we have11 a 24 inch well, so it would be like 20 inches and12 up.13 Q. Okay. You never have perforation in the14 bottom?15 A. No, no, no, no. You just start from like16 I say two inches off the bottom and work your way17 up.18 Q. What if -- and I may ask you questions19 that don't --20 A. That's okay.21 Q. -- make sense because I'm trying to get a

7 (Pages 25 to 28)



Page 25

1 picture of this. What happens if the tub is below2 the level of the trench that's been dug that has the3 gravel in it and the pipe in it and all that stuff,4 and if the holes are cut or perforated below the5 level of that, couldn't that create a problem if the6 subsurface material is just dirt with -- you would7 then have dirt coming out?8 A. So when you install the well, you surround9 it with approximately a foot of gravel so you have a

10 drainage field.11 Q. Okay. So it allows --12 A. It's a collection pit. Anything that's13 collected from different -- not only does it funnel14 through the pipe, it's collected from down below, so15 if you don't perforate the well itself, you have all16 this water sitting down there at the bottom of the17 well just stagnating18 Q. Now, I take it that applies only in19 instances where there's a water table that has20 enough --21 A. It's protocol on all jobs. It's just

Page 26

1 automatic.

2 Q. Have you ever seen a job where solid pipe

3 was used in one of these -- what do you call that

4 trench? It's just part of the water --

5 A. Part of the water management system.

6 Q. Okay. I take it you've never seen a solid

7 pipe in that trench?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Because that would serve no purpose?

10 A. No purpose at all.

11 Q. Did you observe in this case whether or

12 not there were any of those perforated holes cut in

13 the sump pump, the sump container besides the holes

14 where the pipes enter?

15 A. I believe there were holes, like quarter

16 inch holes drilled into the well --

17 Q. And when you say -- I'm sorry. I did

18 exactly to you what I told you not to do with me. I

19 interrupted.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. I apologize. When you say quarter inch,

Page 27

1 you mean you take somebody with a drill bit comes

2 along and just --

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Did you observe any duct tape placed over

5 part of one of the container holes?

6 A. I don't remember.

7 Q. Do you recall if you took any pictures?

8 A. No, I didn't take any pictures.

9 Q. Would you know why -- if you don't know,

10 you can say. I don't want you to speculate. Could

11 you explain why one would ever have duct tape over

12 one of the holes? Have you ever seen that before?

13 A. I can't, I can't -- no idea.

14 Q. Now, I take it you're aware that the

15 trench has been opened at I believe six points

16 around the interior of the basement?

17 A. I was just made aware of that.

18 Q. Okay. Had that condition, or that opening

19 of the trench hadn't existed when you got there,

20 right?

21 A. Correct.

Page 28

1 Q. And were you able to observe the type of

2 stone that was in place around the pipe at the entry

3 points into the sump container?

4 A. It was a blue stone. It was a blue stone

5 gravel.

6 Q. Okay. Actually, blue stone is a different

7 kind of stone than gravel, isn't it?

8 A. Right.

9 Q. So if you were going to speak

10 specifically, it would be gravel as opposed to blue

11 stone, wouldn't it?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. Because blue stone is angular and can be

14 compacted?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. And you don't want compaction to occur

17 with respect to gravel, right?

18 A. Matter of opinion.

19 Q. Well, isn't one of the reasons gravel is

20 rounded is so that it can't be compacted and allows

21 water to percolate through it?

8 (Pages 29 to 32)



Page 29

1 A. It allows water to perk faster, that's

2 correct.

3 Q. You said it's a matter of opinion. Makes

4 me think -- I've never seen it. Do people generally

5 use blue stone?

6 A. It's typically whatever's available. You

7 get areas, so.

8 Q. Is gravel around here something that's

9 hard to find available?

10 A. That's correct.

11 Q. It is hard?

12 A. Depends what quarries you're close by.

13 Q. I mean, you got Cheney and Gardner. Don't

14 they supply all the gravel around here?

15 A. You get in Western Maryland, you have blue

16 stone and granite.

17 Q. Okay. So in this case, though, then, do

18 you know why blue -- let's go back to the question.

19 Was it blue stone or was it gravel that --

20 A. It was blue stone, if I remember

21 correctly.

Page 30

1 Q. Okay. But gravel is readily available in2 this area, isn't it?3 A. Oh, yeah.4 Q. Why would, if you can say, blue stone be5 utilized in this instance as opposed to gravel, if6 you know? Did you ever ask?7 A. No.8 Q. Okay. Did you ever have the opportunity9 to take a look at what the contract called for in

10 terms of what work was to be performed?11 A. I don't recall.12 Q. You don't recall if you ever saw the13 contract?14 A. I don't think I did, the entire contract,15 no. I think I saw a work order.16 Q. Did you draw any conclusions that you17 passed on to Mr. Rzemien about the workmanlike18 quality of the work that you saw there?19 A. Wasn't good.20 Q. And tell me the factual observations that21 you saw that led you to conclude that it wasn't

Page 31

1 good.2 A. Start with the tar, incorrect material3 applied to the walls. There was a discharge line4 for the sump pump -- now, I'm not sure if we, if5 AquaGuard installed that, but there was a discharge6 line that ran down the side of the house, which7 unsightly. I don't know if that was pre-existing or8 not.9 (Discussion off the record.)

10 BY MR. DARROW:11 Q. How would you describe the, if you can,12 the efficiency or the efficacy of the system that13 you saw installed in terms of addressing the water14 seepage problems?15 MR. RUBINO: Do you mean --16 Q. Does it make sense?17 MR. RUBINO: -- did it work?18 Q. Yeah, did it work. Sorry.19 MR. RUBINO: No, that's fine.20 Q. Sometimes I sound like a lawyer.21 A. It's aesthetics. I mean, I was looking at

Page 32

1 concrete and I was looking at a drainage board, so,

2 and it wasn't raining, so.

3 Q. Okay. Based on what your expertise is in

4 the waterproofing business, what measures would you

5 have recommended to -- I believe you said you never

6 did make any recommendations in this case?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Okay. Are you able at this juncture to

9 say what additional recommendations you would make

10 in terms of having the system operate properly?

11 A. Not without seeing it. It's been a while.

12 Q. Do you recall Mr. Rzemien telling you that

13 he had received some verbal estimates to remove the

14 tar from different contractors?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Did he give you the names of any of those

17 folks, if you recall?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Do you recall if he suggested you contact

20 them to --

21 A. One of the contractors.

9 (Pages 33 to 36)



Page 33

1 Q. Do you recall who that was?

2 A. Washington-Chamberlin.

3 Q. I take it fair to say you never did

4 contact them?

5 A. Yes, I did.

6 Q. All right. And tell me, when did you

7 contact them?

8 A. About a day or so after leaving the

9 property.

10 Q. Describe the conversation.

11 A. The conversation was I asked them if they

12 were interested in removing the material from the

13 walls, and their response was we want to do the

14 whole job or we're not interested.

15 Q. Okay. And so it was a relatively short

16 conversation?

17 A. Very short.

18 Q. If I told you Mr. Rzemien said that you

19 told him you would report to Jack Buchanan regarding

20 what you saw, would that be a true statement?

21 A. That's a true statement.

Page 34

1 Q. And if I told you Mr. Rzemien said that

2 you told him you would get back with him after you

3 spoke with Jack Buchanan --

4 A. Yes, I did.

5 MR. RUBINO: Let him finish. Just let him

6 finish the question.

7 Q. We're kind of slipping back, so.

8 A. Oh, I'm sorry.

9 Q. You never did get back to him, though, did

10 you?

11 A. Excuse me?

12 Q. Did you get back --

13 A. Yes, I did.

14 Q. Okay. Can you tell me what --

15 A. I made a few attempts to call but never

16 got a phone call back.

17 Q. Did you leave messages?

18 A. Yes, call me. Not lengthy, but I left a

19 message that I called.

20 Q. And so at this point, what would have been

21 the point of getting, if you never made a

Page 35

1 recommendation or never completed your research and

2 never made a recommendation to Mr. Buchanan, what

3 would be the purpose of you communicating with

4 Mr. Rzemien?

5 A. I made a recommendation to Mr. Buchanan.

6 Q. Oh, okay. What was the recommendation you

7 made to Mr. Buchanan?

8 A. That either we remove the material or have

9 another company remove the material from the wall.

10 Q. And so your recommendation to Mr. Buchanan

11 was let's get that tar off the wall, basically?

12 A. Right, that's correct.

13 Q. Was that the last thing you did, then, in

14 this?

15 A. I believe so.

16 Q. Did Mr. Buchanan or anybody from AquaGuard

17 get back to you at any time after that regarding

18 this job for any further assistance?

19 A. I don't recall.

20 Q. Is it correct to say that permits are

21 required with the County for this kind of work?

Page 36

1 A. I don't have that information. It varies

2 from county to county.

3 Q. There was a drawing that AquaGuard gave4 us, interior drain tile side view. I guess maybe we5 could have this called Curtin No. 1.6 (Exhibit 1 marked.)7 BY MR. DARROW:

8 Q. You all recognize that?9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. And is that something that's11 typically used to submit with permit documents --12 A. Right.

13 Q. -- to the County?14 A. Correct.

15 Q. Now, the Miradrain in that picture as it16 looks like I've always understood it, it kind of17 goes down like an L and it goes along the vertical18 wall and then it's horizontal at some point?19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Tell me where that is installed generally,21 typically, appropriately in these jobs.

10 (Pages 37 to 40)



Page 37

1 A. Against the wall, against the foundation2 wall and it wraps over the footing, if there is a3 footing. It extends approximately three to four4 inches above the wall, above the floor.5 Q. So it extends three to four inches above6 the slab?7 A. The slab, correct, of the floor.8 Q. Of the floor, and then does the Aquafin go9 over it to hide it?

10 A. No, Aqua -- well, Aquafin goes from that11 level up to the ceiling.12 Q. From above the Miradrain?13 A. Right.14 Q. M-I-R-A, Miradrain, I think. Miradrain is15 the name of that product?16 A. Right. You need to pull it back and17 people brush behind it. It's flexible.18 Q. Okay. And so although there might be an19 aesthetic issue, it is exposed, you can see it?20 A. Correct.21 Q. Okay. And it runs vertically, then, down

Page 38

1 below the poured slab that you all would pour,2 right?3 A. Correct.4 Q. And it turns right, turns horizontal at5 what point?6 A. At where the footing and the wall meet,7 the foundation wall and the footing meet.8 Q. Okay. And what's the reasoning for having9 it go down and to the footing and then turn right?

10 A. It allows water to drain out of the walls11 into the perforated drainage system.12 Q. I take it you wouldn't use a Miradrain if13 it just went vertically and didn't turn right? It14 wouldn't serve any purpose?15 A. Not much purpose.16 Q. In this job, you were never really able to17 see the Miradrain, correct?18 A. Correct.19 Q. Because it wasn't opened up?20 A. Correct.21 Q. All right. And it's my understanding is

Page 39

1 that you didn't go out and seek any proposals for2 any of the work?3 A. No.

4 Q. You just -- okay. Now, in terms of the5 installation of a proper system, I know that you6 didn't, since it wasn't opened up, you don't know7 exactly what existed here, but what is the standard8 acceptable width in in your profession for this9 trench for these systems?

10 A. Probably 12 to 18 inches.

11 Q. And what about the depth of the trench?12 A. It starts out approximately 10, 12 inches,

13 and the objective is to get about a inch drop every

14 10 feet.

15 Q. When you say an inch drop, you're talking16 about --17 A. Slope.

18 Q. -- slope --19 A. Correct.

20 Q. -- from the highest point, which would be21 the farthest point away from the sump pump --

Page 40

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. -- all the way down, so depending on the

3 size of a basement, you might have to have a trench

4 that's --

5 A. Pretty substantial.

6 Q. -- pretty substantial, but this house was

7 a relatively small basement, right?

8 A. Average.

9 Q. Okay. And it's one inch drop over what,

10 like ten feet?

11 A. Ten feet.

12 Q. The trench from the looks of Exhibit No. 1

13 that's cut is kind of square?

14 A. Right.

15 Q. And the trench is backfilled with some

16 kind of stone?

17 A. (Witness nodding affirmatively.)

18 Q. You have to say yes.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. The stone you say can vary. In this area,

21 though, the stone generally is large washed gravel;

11 (Pages 41 to 44)



Page 41

1 is that correct?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. And as I understand it -- you correct me

4 if I'm wrong -- once the trench is dug to the

5 appropriate depth, 12 to 18 inches wide, 10 inches

6 to whatever depth, the gravel is poured in it and

7 then the perforated pipe is set within the gravel,

8 and then the rest of the gravel is poured in so that

9 the pipe is completely surrounded with that washed

10 gravel; is that correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. And the purpose of the dimpled plastic or

13 the Miradrain that we were talking about in that

14 system, tell me how they function together.

15 A. The Miradrain?

16 Q. Yes, sir.

17 A. The Miradrain runs down, down the wall,

18 across the footing and is introduced to the

19 perforated drainage system, so they work in

20 conjunction with each other.

21 Q. You didn't get involved in this case, you

Page 42

1 didn't have anything to do with the cracks or any of

2 those issues that were being --

3 A. They were brought to my attention, but no,

4 my purpose there was to see how we can extract the

5 tar from the walls.

6 Q. How would you describe the work performed

7 by Kevin London at that site?

8 A. Poor.

9 Q. Did you get involved in any of the

10 e-mails?

11 A. No, I didn't.

12 Q. Do you have an e-mail address?

13 A. Yeah, but I don't use it.

14 Q. It's not --

15 A. It goes to my wife, all e-mails.

16 Q. Okay. So you never in this case --

17 A. No.

18 Q. -- you never got involved --

19 A. No.

20 Q. -- with any of -- I mean, e-mails was not

21 something that you had anything to do with in this

Page 43

1 case, right?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Okay. If you give me just a minute, I

4 think I'll be done with him.

5 MR. RUBINO: Sure.

6 (Brief recess.)

7 BY MR. DARROW:

8 Q. I presume that you were compensated for

9 your services by somebody?

10 A. Never submitted a bill.

11 Q. You never submitted a bill to AquaGuard?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. Is that because there's -- do you have any

14 relationship to Mr. Buchanan or anybody, Mr. Spain

15 or anybody that works there?

16 MR. RUBINO: What do you mean by --

17 Q. Any relationship. I don't know. You

18 related to anybody by marriage or --

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You are?

21 A. Yes.

Page 44

1 Q. Who are you related to?

2 A. Mr. Buchanan.

3 Q. And what's your relationship?

4 A. Brother-in-law.

5 Q. Okay. And so you never did send --

6 A. No.

7 Q. -- you never sent a bill?

8 A. No.

9 MR. DARROW: Okay. I have no additional

10 questions, then.

11 E X A M I N A T I O N

12 BY MR. RUBINO:

13 Q. Okay. Let me start there real quick.

14 When you do work for AquaGuard, do you charge them?

15 A. It depends on the job. Some, there's

16 times I do. Small inspections, if I'm in the

17 neighborhood, you know, I won't charge, but

18 generally, I do.

19 Q. What if the Rzemiens -- did I say that

20 right?

21 MR. RZEMIEN: Yes, very good.

12 (Pages 45 to 48)



Page 45

1 Q. Thank you. I've got it wrong throughout.

2 I just heard you say it today.

3 MR. RZEMIEN: Lifetime of getting it

4 wrong, that's fine.

5 Q. If the Rzemiens had contacted you or

6 authorized you to do the work, would you have then

7 sent a bill for whatever you did to AquaGuard?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. Just go over a few of the questions

10 that Mr. Darrow asked you. Going through your work

11 history, did you ever work at Mid-Atlantic?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. How long did you work there?

14 A. Two years, I believe.

15 Q. And what about, is there a company called

16 SPU?

17 A. SPU.

18 Q. Do you remember working there?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And about how long did you work for SPU?

21 A. Eight years.

Page 46

1 Q. And when you were asked by AquaGuard to go

2 take a look at the Rzemiens' property, was the

3 purpose to see what problems were there and then

4 propose how to fix them?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. You described making some phone calls to

7 the Rzemiens that weren't returned. Do you know

8 about how many calls you made?

9 A. Two or three, I believe.

10 Q. And you got no return calls?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Did you ever get anything in writing from

13 the Rzemiens?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you ever talk to anyone at Washington-

16 Chamberlin about that, about contact from the

17 Rzemiens?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Okay. And you described what

20 Washington-Chamberlin told you. Do you remember who

21 you spoke with at the company?

Page 47

1 A. I believe it was the owner.

2 Q. Do you remember his name by any chance?

3 A. No. There's a husband and wife, but it's

4 been so long.

5 Q. Okay. And I think I understood what you

6 were saying. You asked them if they were interested

7 in just taking the tar off?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. Okay. And who would have re-applied the

10 product to the walls once the tar had been removed?

11 A. Just several crews we could pick in our

12 organization.

13 Q. But that company wasn't interested in

14 doing the work just for that limited purpose?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Did they ever discuss the price that they

17 had proposed to the Rzemiens with you to do the

18 repair work?

19 A. Mid-20s, I think.

20 Q. Mid-20s?

21 A. $26,000, I believe.

Page 48

1 Q. Mr. Darrow asked you a bit about the last

2 time you'd seen tar applied to a wall, and you said

3 it was about a month ago?

4 A. About.

5 Q. Was that a new applicataion of tar or

6 something old you found?

7 A. Old, old.

8 Q. Have you seen new applications of tar in

9 basements in the recent past?

10 A. No.

11 Q. All right. And you were talking about

12 blue stone and gravel. You said that when you

13 looked at the rock that was in this system, it was

14 blue stone. Is that what you said?

15 A. I believe so.

16 Q. All right. Is there a picture of it in

17 color? I didn't bring color photos, is what I'm

18 asking.

19 MR. DARROW: Do we have some pictures?

20 MR. RZEMIEN: I'm sure there are.

21 MR. DARROW: Can you maybe help direct him

13 (Pages 49 to 52)



Page 49

1 to something to save some time?

2 MR. RZEMIEN: Sure.

3 Q. You see that? Does that show the stone?

4 A. No. I don't know. Right there.

5 Q. Some, we'll see if there's --

6 MR. RZEMIEN: The best pictures are the

7 ones with the pipes because you can actually

8 see what little stone there is kind of around

9 it.

10 A. Right.

11 MR. RZEMIEN: Here's a good example.

12 Q. Which one you looking at? I can probably

13 find it.

14 MR. RZEMIEN: I'm looking at something

15 called hole No. 3. It's probably about 15

16 pages in.

17 MR. DARROW: Why don't you hand them, just

18 hand them?

19 MR. RZEMIEN: Sure.

20 MR. DARROW: Turn to the page.

21 Q. That the same one?

Page 50

1 MR. RZEMIEN: Yeah.2 Q. That works?3 MR. RZEMIEN: Yeah.4 Q. I won't even mark it. It's designated as5 hole No. 3, and there's a yardstick there?6 A. Right.7 Q. Can you see the type of stone that was8 installed in this photograph?9 A. Looks like blue stone to me.

10 Q. Looks like blue stone to you?11 A. Some sort of type of blue stone.12 Q. And there's stone on the outside of the13 hole as well as on the inside?14 A. Correct.15 Q. Okay. Is use of blue stone acceptable16 within the industry or should be something17 different?18 A. Should be something different. Engineers19 approve it, so.20 Q. So you would select something different?21 A. I'd select something personally.

Page 51

1 Q. And that's the washed gravel you were

2 discussing previously?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. Mr. Darrow asked you whether you

5 had sought any, sought proposals from other people

6 to do work, and you said that you did not. Why did

7 you not seek proposals?

8 A. Why did I not seek proposals?

9 Q. Uh-huh, for work to get done at the

10 Rzemiens' house. Let me ask this way. Were you

11 ever authorized to actually --

12 A. No.

13 Q. -- perform the work?

14 A. No, I was not.

15 Q. Did AquaGuard authorize you to perform

16 work if it was approved by the Rzemiens?

17 A. No.

18 Q. And you never went to them with a

19 proposal, either?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. And that's the same that you weren't, you

Page 52

1 weren't given the okay to do the work from the

2 homeowner?

3 A. Right, correct.

4 Q. You've had a chance to look at the

5 proposals from Washington-Chamberlin, correct? Have

6 you had a chance to look at the proposals for the

7 work?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. I might have called them

10 Washington-Chamberlin. I apologize.

11 A. That's okay.

12 Q. It's Chamberlin-Washington.

13 A. I do the same thing.

14 Q. Do you have, do you have an estimate of

15 what it would cost to redo the interior

16 waterproofing system originally contracted for by

17 the Rzemiens, including removal of the tar and then

18 the reapplication of the proper product, or would

19 you need to see the place again?

20 A. Well, the system, I just have to refresh

21 my memory how many linear feet it is, basement.

14 (Pages 53 to 56)



Page 53

1 MR. RZEMIEN: It's 130.2 A. That's correct.3 Q. Assuming it's 130 feet.4 A. 130 feet, okay.5 Q. Do you need a second to think about it?6 A. No. The whole package?7 Q. The whole package, the whole --8 A. Removing the tar.9 Q. Removing the tar.

10 A. Aquafin.11 Q. Putting on the Aquafin and --12 A. Seal cracks.13 Q. -- redoing the -- sealing cracks, redoing14 the entire drain system that's on the inside.15 A. Roughly, I think I came up with like16 $21,950, if I recall.17 Q. And that's for 130 linear feet?18 A. 130 feet. I might have missed a pump19 there. There's two pumps?20 Q. Assume there's two pumps.21 A. Two pumps.

Page 54

1 Q. That adds --2 A. Add another pump, like $22,950.3 Q. $22,950?4 A. That's with the battery backup.5 Q. With the battery backup? Can you give me6 one minute to step out with Jack?7 MR. DARROW: Sure.8 (Brief recess.)9 MR. RUBINO: All right. I don't have any

10 more questions.11 (Discussion off the record.)12 MR. RUBINO: You have a right to read the13 deposition and make sure that the court14 reporter got your testimony down accurately.15 THE WITNESS: Okay.16 MR. RUBINO: Bizarrely enough, in the17 State of Maryland, you can now change your18 testimony.19 (Discussion off the record.)20 MR. RUBINO: Or you can just let the court21 reporter get it done. It's fine if you want to

Page 55

1 waive, and I'll give you a copy of it when I2 get one.3 THE WITNESS: Okay.4 MR. RUBINO: He'll waive.5 (The deposition concluded at 11:35 a.m.)6789

101112131415161718192021

Page 56

1 STATE OF MARYLAND2 I, Kathryn M. Benhoff, a Notary Public in

and for the State of Maryland, do hereby3 certify that the within named DANIEL J. CURTIN

personally appeared before me at the time and4 place herein set according to law, and was

interrogated by counsel.5

I further certify that the examination was6 recorded stenographically by me and then

transcribed from my stenographic notes to the7 within printed matter by means of

computer-assisted transcription in a true and8 accurate manner.9 I further certify that the stipulations

contained herein were entered into by counsel10 in my presence.11 I further certify that I am not of counsel

to any of the parties, not an employee of12 counsel, nor related to any of the parties, nor

in any way interested in the outcome of this13 action.14 AS WITNESS my hand and Notorial Seal this

4th day of September, 2012, at Abingdon,15 Maryland1617

__________________________18 Kathryn M. Benhoff

Notary Public192021 My commission expires October 11, 2015



Page 57Transcript of Daniel J. Curtin

Taken August 27, 2012


AAbingdon

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accept 23:3acceptable

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54:14acronym

19:18act 9:14action 56:13actual 20:19Add 54:2added 23:20additional

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address 42:12addressing

31:13adds 54:1ADS 19:14,18

21:2,3,17advanced

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31:21affirmatively

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AMERICAN1:1

angular 28:13

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48:2applies 25:18apply 16:16apprised

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AquaGuard1:6 5:8 8:4,78:12 9:15,189:21 10:1511:1,8,10,1614:4,1816:20 18:731:5 35:1636:3 43:1144:14 45:746:1 51:15

ARBITRAT...1:1,2

area 30:240:20

areas 29:7asked 12:2

13:5 17:733:11 45:1046:1 47:648:1 51:4

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a.m 1:12 55:5

Bback 12:19

16:5 20:1629:18 34:2,734:9,12,1635:17 37:16

backfilled40:15

backup 54:4,5based 12:19

24:1,2 32:3basement

27:16 40:3,752:21

basements48:9

basically35:11

basin 24:7battery 54:4,5BEHALF 2:2

2:8believe 5:16

18:6 21:1426:15 27:1532:5 35:1545:14 46:947:1,2148:15

Benhoff 1:1556:2,18

best 49:6big 22:12bill 43:10,11

44:7 45:7bit 6:13,21

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Bizarrely54:16

black 22:8blue 28:4,4,6

28:10,1329:5,15,1829:19,2030:4 48:1248:14 50:950:10,11,15

board 32:1

bottom 23:1624:10,14,1625:16

Brief 43:654:8

bring 48:17Brother-in-l...

44:4brought 18:19

42:3Brown 1:13

2:4brush 37:17Buchanan

2:14 10:2011:7 12:113:5 14:3,1817:2,3,533:19 34:335:2,5,7,1035:16 43:1444:2

Buchanan's10:21

built 22:12bunch 13:13burnt 5:18business 7:5

7:15 10:8,1210:13 12:2018:13 32:4

CC 2:1call 17:5 21:3

26:3 34:1534:16,18

called 8:1 12:120:10 30:934:19 36:545:15 49:1552:9

calls 46:6,8,10capacity 11:7care 16:6 19:5career 7:6case 1:4 8:18

26:11 29:1732:6 41:2142:16 43:1

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16:15ceramic 20:20certify 56:3,5

56:9,11Chamberlin

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52:12chance 47:2

52:4,6change 5:18

54:17charge 44:14

44:17chatting 6:15Cheney 29:13Claimants 1:4

2:2clay 21:1close 22:2

29:12collect 21:10

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25:13,14collection

23:10 25:12collects 24:6Collins 14:8color 48:17,17come 23:1comes 23:11

27:1coming 25:7commencing

1:12commission

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Transcript of Daniel J. Curtin



compaction28:16

company 4:155:2,20 6:111:4,18,2015:11 35:945:15 46:2147:13

compensated43:8

complete 5:4completed 6:9

12:16 13:235:1

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complying9:18

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contractors32:14,21

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copy 55:1Corbin 1:20correct 7:7 8:3

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corregated19:15 20:2

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21:2counsel 56:4,9

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3:3 4:4,1036:5 56:3

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16:8Daniel 1:11

3:3 4:4,1056:3

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draw 17:12,1430:16

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Engineers50:18

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Gloucester1:14 2:5

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goes 20:1622:17 36:1736:17 37:1042:15

going 15:1016:18 28:945:10

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date:august 27, 2012 - wordpress.com · 2013-01-13 · 2 (pages 5 to 8) transcript of daniel j....

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