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JUDICIAL ARBITER GROUP
JAG NO. 12 A 1318
___________________________________________________
REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING, VOLUME IV
November 9, 2012
___________________________________________________
IN RE: THE APPLICATION OF ENERGY FUELS RESOURCES,
INC. FOR A RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS LICENSE FOR THE
PINON RIDGE URANIUM MILL
___________________________________________________
PURSUANT TO NOTICE to all parties in
interest, the above-entitled matter resumed for
hearing before THE HONORABLE RICHARD DANA on
Friday, November 9, 2012, commencing at 8:37 a.m.,
at 1045 Main Street, Nucla, Colorado, before
Candice F. Flowers, Certified Shorthand Reporter
and Notary Public within and for the State of
Colorado.
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 ENERGY & CONSERVATION LAW
By Travis Stills, Esq.
3 1911 Main AvenueSuite 238
4 Durango, Colorado 81301
and5 JEFFREY C. PARSONS, ESQ.
Western Mining Action Project
6 P.O. Box 349
Lyons, Colorado 80540
7 Appearing on behalf of SheepMountain Alliance
8
FAEGRE BAKER DANIELS LLP
9 By James R. Spaanstra, Esq.Olivia D. Lucas, Esq.
10 3200 Wells Fargo Center
1700 Lincoln Street
11 Denver, Colorado 80203and
12 ENERGY FUELS RESOURCESBy Curtis H. Moore, Esq.
13 Director of Communications & Legal
Affairs14 44 Union Boulevard, Suite 600
Lakewood, Colorado 80228
15 Appearing on behalf of Energy FuelsResources Corporation
16OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
17 By Jerry W. Goad, Esq.
1525 Sherman Street18 7th Floor
Denver, Colorado 80203
19 Appearing on behalf of ColoradoDepartment of Public Health and
20 Environment
21 MATT SANDLER, ESQ.Rocky Mountain Wild
22 1536 Wynkoop StreetSuite 303
23 Denver, Colorado 80202
Appearing on behalf of Rocky24 Mountain Wild, Center for Biological
Diversity, and Colorado
25 Environmental Coalition
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1 APPEARANCES (continued)
2 ROBERT LOUIS GROSSMAN, Ph.D.
6215 Baseline Road3 Boulder, Colorado 80303
Party in Interest
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1 INDEX
2
3 WITNESSES PAGE
4 DR. ANN MAEST
Direct Examination by Mr. Parsons 565
5 Voir Dire Examination by Mr. Spaanstra 570
Voir Dire Examination by Mr. Goad 572
6 Direct Examination Cont'd by Mr. Parsons 574
Cross-Examination by Mr. Spaanstra 622
7 Cross-Examination by Dr. Grossman 641
8 CONSTANCE TRAVERS
Direct Examination by Mr. Parsons 652
9 Voir Dire Examination by Ms. Lucas 658
Direct Examination Cont'd by Mr. Parsons 659
10 Direct Examination Cont'd by Mr. Parsons 687
Cross-Examination by Ms. Lucas 711
11
DR. THOMAS POWER
12 Direct Examination by Mr. Stills 716
Voir Dire Examination by Mr. Moore 724
13 Direct Examination Cont'd by Mr. Stills 726
Cross-Examination by Mr. Moore 761
14 Cross-Examination by Mr. Goad 770
Cross-Examination by Dr. Grossman 77615 Redirect Examination by Mr. Stills 779
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PUBLIC COMMENTS 785
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19 SMA EXHIBITS ADMITTED
20 Exhibit 12 586
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 - - -
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Parsons.
4 MR. PARSONS: We would like to call
5 Dr. Ann Maest to the stand.
6 (Witness sworn.)
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: State your
8 full name.
9 DR. MAEST: Ann Maest, A-N-N,
10 M-A-E-S-T.
11 DR. ANN MAEST,
12 being first duly sworn in the above cause, was
13 examined and testified as follows:
14 DIRECT EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. PARSONS:
16 Q Thank you for being here, Dr. Maest.
17 Can you please tell us your occupation.
18 A I'm an environmental geochemist, and I
19 work at Stratus Consulting in Boulder, Colorado.
20 Q Can you tell us a little bit about your
21 educational background.
22 A Yes. I have an undergraduate degree in
23 geology from Boston University, and I have a Ph.D.
24 in geochemistry and water resources from Princeton
25 University. And it's a joint degree of the geology
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1 department and the environmental engineering
2 program.
3 Q Thank you. Can you describe your
4 employment history.
5 A After I got my Ph.D., I did a National
6 Research Council postdoctoral fellowship at the
7 U.S. Geological Survey in Menlo Park, where I was a
8 research geochemist for six years, and I
9 investigated the patent transport of natural and
10 anthropogenic contaminants in the environment.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: You'd better
12 spell anthropogenic.
13 DR. MAEST: A-N-T-H-R-O-P-O-G-E-N-I-C
14 man-made contaminants or...
15 Q (By Mr. Parsons) Excuse me for
16 interrupting, Dr. Maest. I was going to mention
17 that there are several lawyers in the room, so you
18 will want to dumb down some of your testimony today
19 and perhaps --
20 MR. SPAANSTRA: I object. It's my
21 job to do the jokes.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Noted.
23 MR. PARSONS: I did take a cue from
24 Mr. Spaanstra's comments.
25 Q (By Mr. Parsons) But in all seriousness,
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1 if there are technical terms that you refer to, I
2 think it would be helpful -- and I'll remind you if
3 you don't -- but to maybe describe them in a little
4 more of a lay term, but sorry to interrupt you.
5 Please proceed.
6 A Okay. So let's see. I worked for the
7 U.S. Geological Survey where I investigated, in a
8 research fashion, the movement of contaminants in
9 the environment, mostly in surface water and
10 groundwater environments. And I became a project
11 chief there. And a lot my work was on -- I did
12 some work on mining, water pollution from mining,
13 and also arsenic contamination of groundwaters.
14 I worked at Environmental Defense Fund in
15 Washington, D.C. for about a year and learned about
16 policy aspects of hard rock mining. And then I
17 have been a consultant for about 20 years now, and
18 my primary area of expertise is in the
19 environmental effects of hard rock mining,
20 especially on water quality.
21 Q And could you maybe go into a little
22 detail as far as the work experience you have had.
23 You mentioned you worked on hard rock mine sites.
24 Can you give us a little more -- or flesh that out
25 a little bit for us.
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1 A Okay. Yeah. Maybe I should say a little
2 bit about my experience on uranium and radioactive
3 sites. For my dissertation at Princeton, I
4 conducted experimental studies of the effect of
5 temperature and organic compounds on radionuclides
6 and looked at the movement in the environment of
7 uranium, cobalt, strontium and cesium.
8 Then I worked for the New Mexico Attorney
9 General's Office evaluating characterization of the
10 Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in southern New Mexico.
11 And I evaluated the characterization studies and
12 laboratory studies that were being proposed to
13 simulate the long-term performance of that
14 high-level radioactive waste disposal site.
15 I also worked for the State of New Mexico
16 evaluating the environmental effects of about ten
17 underground uranium mines, and I estimated the
18 amount of contaminated groundwater from those mines
19 and the flux of groundwater over time.
20 I also worked for the State of New Mexico
21 in the same office on the Cavira Mill in northern
22 New Mexico and looked at the effects of leaking
23 solution ponds, some of which were lined and many
24 of which were not lined, on groundwater
25 contamination, and also the effect of leaking
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1 tailings impoundment and movement of wind transport
2 of contaminated tailings and the effect on soils.
3 On mining, I've -- as I think I
4 mentioned -- for the last 20 years, really, my main
5 area of focus has been on the water quality effects
6 of hard rock mining. And I have -- I'm the, I
7 guess I would say, primary consultant to the
8 Environmental Protection Agency on the water
9 quality effects and characterization of hard rock
10 mines for the regions, EPA regions.
11 I have also conducted a large study
12 comparing what was predicted in environmental
13 impact statements in terms of water quality and
14 environmental effects and comparing that with what
15 actually happened at a number of large hard rock
16 mining sites in the United States.
17 I have evaluated kind of every phase in
18 hard rock mining sites from proposed mines, active
19 mines, inactive mines, abandoned mines at probably
20 about 200 sites in the United States, Latin
21 America, Africa, and Asia. And I have also been on
22 settlement negotiations with mining companies on
23 some mines.
24 Q Have you served on any -- you mentioned
25 your work for the EPA. Any other federal
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1 government committees or task forces or things of
2 that nature?
3 A Yes. I guess the most recent, I have
4 been involved in a number of National Academy
5 committees that investigate the kind of mineral
6 resource and mining and oil and gas effects. And
7 I'm just finishing up my second three-year term on
8 one of the standing committees for the National
9 Academy of Sciences. It's called The Committee on
10 Earth Resources, and we generate studies that
11 recently included a study on Virginia uranium
12 mining -- uranium mining in Virginia.
13 MR. PARSONS: So as not to belabor
14 it, I think, based on that description of those
15 qualifications, I would proffer this witness as an
16 expert. I'm certainly willing to yield to some
17 voir dire.
18 MR. SPAANSTRA: Two, three very
19 short questions.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead.
21 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION OF DR. ANN MAEST
22 BY MR. SPAANSTRA:
23 Q Doctor, that's a very impressive rsum.
24 Just to clarify, your expertise and your
25 qualifications aren't as a wildlife biologist?
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1 A Definitely not.
2 Q Okay. Just for my edification, I thought
3 WIPP was a transuranic waste -- a true waste site,
4 not a high-level site.
5 A Yes. That's right.
6 Q And I'm not playing games, because people
7 from Mexico might think, No, Yucca Mountain air.
8 A Right. You are correct.
9 Q One last, very important question: What
10 do you think of the Colorado School of Mines'
11 geochemistry? I'm the chair of the board of
12 trustees, so I wanted some...
13 A So you are asking me what again?
14 Q I'll withdraw the question.
15 A They have some excellent students come
16 out of there, and we have a number of them working
17 at Stratus, actually. They do a good job.
18 MR. SPAANSTRA: Thank you very much.
19 I have no objections.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: I would think
21 not.
22 MR. GOAD: Can I ask, Your Honor,
23 what Dr. Maest is being qualified as an expert in?
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: Sure.
25 MR. PARSONS: I would proffer
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1 Dr. Maest as an expert in geochemistry -- shall I
2 say hydro-geochemistry.
3 And maybe, Dr. Maest, you can explain
4 what hydro-geochemistry is so we can have a sense
5 of that.
6 DR. MAEST: It's a -- I describe it
7 as the interaction of water and earth materials and
8 the application of chemical principles to earth
9 processes. And mostly I'm an environmental
10 geochemist and I focus on water resources, water
11 quality.
12 MR. PARSONS: I would also like to
13 offer Dr. Maest as an expert in the assessment of
14 pollution control measures at mining and mill
15 sites.
16 MR. GOAD: If I may do a little voir
17 dire, Your Honor?
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: You may.
19 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION OF DR. ANN MAEST
20 BY MR. GOAD:
21 Q Dr. Maest, are you an engineer?
22 A I'm not an engineer, no.
23 Q Okay. Have you designed or worked on
24 waste retention systems at milling sites?
25 A I have not designed them, but I have
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1 evaluated plans for them and I have been involved
2 at many sites where those engineered designs have
3 gone wrong.
4 Q So did you evaluate ones that had gone
5 wrong or ones that were being proposed to be built?
6 A Both.
7 Q And you evaluated those in what capacity?
8 A Well, several capacities. One is looking
9 at best management practices that could be employed
10 and trying to come up with recommendations for
11 engineered measures that would be more protective
12 of the environment, and also looking at leaks from
13 engineered systems.
14 Q And this would have been from a
15 geochemical perspective?
16 A In terms of the effect on the
17 environment, yes. But my degree is a joint degree
18 with the environmental engineering program at
19 Princeton, so I have a little bit of training in
20 that, but more is my experience over the last 20,
21 25 years evaluating environmental impact statements
22 and mine operations and adaptive management plans
23 and being involved in mine sites throughout their
24 operational history.
25 Q I think I asked the question poorly. Let
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1 me ask it a different way.
2 Did you -- were you asked to review these
3 plans from a geochemical or a hydro-geochemical
4 perspective? You were brought in for your
5 expertise in those areas?
6 A You mean the plans? The plans for --
7 Q The waste retention system plan review.
8 A Yes.
9 Q Thank you.
10 MR. GOAD: I have nothing further.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Anybody have
12 an objection? Expertise noted.
13 MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Your Honor.
14 DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DR. ANN MAEST CONTINUED
15 BY MR. PARSONS:
16 Q Moving on to the substance of your
17 testimony, you prepared a report that was submitted
18 to the State of Colorado as part of the 2010 or
19 so -- 2010 review of the application materials; is
20 that correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q In preparing that report, do the opinions
23 reached in that report accurately recount your
24 opinions?
25 A Yes.
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1 Q The written testimony rather accurately
2 recounts your opinions?
3 A Yes. I believe we have two reports. One
4 was kind of a follow-up memo, but yes, they do.
5 MR. PARSONS: Your Honor, I will
6 note that those reports are both in the record.
7 They were made part of the administrative record in
8 the previous lawsuit. I'm happy to provide copies
9 of those again.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: If you have
11 them available, I would appreciate it.
12 MR. STILLS: I believe it's in
13 Exhibit 1.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Oh, it's in
15 the book? Okay.
16 MS. LUCAS: Are both of those
17 reports in Exhibit 1 or only the one that you
18 disclosed in --
19 MR. PARSONS: The report at Exhibit
20 1 is the December 15, 2010 report. The prior one
21 was, as noted in that December 15, 2010 report,
22 submitted on September 28, 2010. They are largely
23 similar. I would say that the December 2010 report
24 updated the September 2010 report, but I'm happy to
25 provide copies of both of them if that's helpful.
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1 MR. SPAANSTRA: Do you have it?
2 MR. PARSONS: I have it
3 electronically.
4 MR. STILLS: I will get you a record
5 cite to it here. It's in the record.
6 MR. SPAANSTRA: That's fine.
7 Thanks, Travis.
8 Q (By Mr. Parsons) So I would like to move
9 on to some of the substance of your testimony here
10 today, and I would like to start off with issues
11 related to the toxicity or the chemical
12 characteristics of the liquid waste associated with
13 the mill process.
14 Based on your review of the application
15 materials, are you familiar with the anticipated
16 chemical constituents' characteristics of the
17 raffinate, mill waste?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What materials did you review in looking
20 at those issues?
21 A The primary one was the Kleinfelder
22 report from 2008 that was authored by -- I think it
23 was Scott Dwyer. And that had information on the
24 chemical characteristics of the raffinate. I also
25 examined the SENES report that evaluated the
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1 potential effects of the raffinate on wildlife and
2 humans, actually.
3 Q And based on your review, what did Energy
4 Fuels' consultants do to characterize this waste?
5 A Well, they took ore from actually five
6 different mining sites that are nearby, but the
7 ones -- the only two that were reported in the
8 Kleinfelder 2008 report were Packrat and Pandora.
9 And they took the ore and processed it as you would
10 at a mill. So they ground it and they subjected it
11 to an acid leach using sulfuric acid. Then they
12 took it through a solvent extraction process, as
13 you would at the proposed Pinon Ridge Mill. And
14 then they extracted it for uranium and subsequently
15 vanadium, and then they created this so-called
16 barren raffinate. So that was sort of the starting
17 material. And that had a pH of 1.8, so it was
18 extremely acidic and had high concentrations of
19 metals and metalloids, such as arsenic, selenium,
20 cadmium, lead, manganese, and high sulfate
21 concentrations and total dissolved solids.
22 And then the Kleinfelder report did a
23 study where they increased the pH, so they made it
24 less acidic and more basic by adding lime to it.
25 And they moved it up to pH 4.5 and also to pH 7.5.
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1 And then they took samples of that solution and
2 they measured the concentrations of the metals and
3 the other constituents to see if they changed at
4 different pH values. So that's what they did.
5 Q And based on your review, what was the
6 result? I mean, what did they find that those
7 waste solutions would have in them from a chemical
8 perspective?
9 A They found for many of the constituents,
10 when you raise the pH, you dropped out some of the
11 metal, so you lowered some of the metal
12 concentrations in those solutions. For some
13 constituents, it was quite dramatic and others it
14 wasn't so dramatic. But a lot of the
15 concentrations were lowered at higher pH values.
16 And that's because the solubility or the amount
17 that you can fit in water decreases with increasing
18 pH for many of these contaminants of concern.
19 Q And your understanding -- based on your
20 review of the materials, your understanding of the
21 pH level that will be part of that waste discharge,
22 is it at the lower pH level or is it at the higher
23 pH level?
24 A It's definitely at the lower pH level.
25 My understanding is that the raffinate that would
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1 be put in the evaporation ponds would have, at
2 least initially, a very low pH. It would probably
3 be close to the 1.8 that they measured in the
4 raffinate that they made from those two mines.
5 And I believe I read that after it's
6 mixed with the tailings -- because what they would
7 do is mix the barren raffinate with the tailings
8 and kind of slurry them out to the tailings
9 impoundment. And the pH of that, because the
10 raffinate would interact with the tailings
11 materials a bit, it would go up a little bit to, I
12 think, 4.4, which is still a low pH.
13 Q And I'm interested in -- are you familiar
14 with how these concentrations compare to water
15 quality standards --
16 A Yes.
17 Q -- for drinking water and protection of
18 aquatic life in this instance?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And I have -- I understand that, as part
21 of your report, you had a slide that compares that.
22 I would like to pull that up for you to look at.
23 Is this the slide that's produced in your report?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Is there anything that's been added to
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1 this slide for demonstrative purposes?
2 A Yes. Actually, all of these are in our
3 report. This column is not in our report. But all
4 it is, is dividing these concentrations here, the
5 maximum concentration here, by the most protective
6 of either one of these. So this gives the maximum
7 magnitude of exceedance. And by that, I mean
8 simply that if it exceeds one, if it's one or
9 higher, that means it's equal to or higher than one
10 of these standards.
11 Q So to dumb it down a little bit, if
12 that's an exercise in division, I mean, it's
13 essentially --
14 A This column is just an exercise in
15 division, that's right.
16 Q All right. So what is the conclusion you
17 reach from this table?
18 A Well, these are some of the constituents
19 that were measured, and a lot of these are highly
20 toxic to humans and aquatic biota. This column
21 here is for humans, drinking water standards. And
22 this is for aquatic life, and that would be fish
23 and bugs that live in streams. And for some of the
24 constituents, this concentration is more protective
25 than the other one -- or is lower and this one is
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1 more protective for other metals and constituents.
2 But generally what you see -- and this,
3 again, is the raffinate that was made from Pandora
4 and Packrat at the low pH values. This is not
5 after they have increased the pH by mixing it with
6 lime or anything. You can see that some of these
7 constituents exceed water quality standards by tens
8 or thousands of times. The one that is probably
9 the highest -- we don't really look at pH here --
10 but is uranium, not surprisingly. And this is in a
11 barren solution, and it's 12,300 times higher than
12 the drinking water standard.
13 Q Let me interrupt you.
14 When you say "barren solution," you mean
15 after it's been processed to remove the
16 economically recoverable uranium?
17 A Right. That's what they call it. When
18 it's got the uranium and vanadium in it, it's
19 called pregnant solution; and then after they take
20 it out, it's called a barren solution.
21 So this is what would actually go into
22 the impoundments. It would be mixed with the
23 tailings and also would go out into the evaporation
24 ponds. So a number of these are many times higher
25 than water quality standards.
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1 THE HEARING OFFICER: If I can
2 clarify, you said that's at the low pH?
3 DR. MAEST: That's right.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: 1.8 or 4.4?
5 DR. MAEST: 1.8. Yeah, that's up
6 here, 1.8.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
8 DR. MAEST: So it's not --
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: So it's not
10 yet diluted, mixed with the tailings?
11 DR. MAEST: Right. Not mixed with
12 the tailings and not neutralized in any way.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
14 Q (By Mr. Parsons) Let's get to that point
15 a bit.
16 What would you expect or what
17 concentrations -- are these concentrations
18 representative of what you would find in the
19 evaporation ponds or tailings over time?
20 A They are not really, because the
21 evaporation ponds are designed to evaporate this
22 water. So, if anything, the concentrations are
23 going to get higher over time for most of these
24 constituents. So this is just kind of initially
25 when you would put it out in the evaporation ponds.
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1 This might be what it looks like. And I should say
2 that this is only two samples, so it's only two
3 samples of ore that might or might not be going to
4 this mill.
5 Q I would like to get to that. You
6 mentioned that the information you reviewed in the
7 application included two samples: One from the
8 Pandora Mine and one from the Packrat Mine. Those
9 are the only numbers you saw in the report -- or in
10 the application materials?
11 A Yes. Well, for the Dwyer memo, yes.
12 Q Okay. Thank you.
13 A That is true.
14 Q But you indicated that there is
15 information that there were additional samples
16 collected as well.
17 A Right, from three other mines.
18 Q And did you find those numbers
19 represented anywhere else besides the application
20 materials?
21 A I did. We found a report that Energy
22 Fuels had done for the Environmental Protection
23 Agency in 2010, and it was about characterization
24 of the raffinate. And it wasn't part of the
25 license application materials, but it was something
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1 that was created by Energy Fuels for EPA. And in
2 that report, there was some information on the
3 characteristics of the other raffinates, the other
4 three raffinates, and Pandora and Packrat.
5 MR. PARSONS: So this slide I would
6 like to proffer as an excerpt of that report that
7 was submitted to EPA by Energy Fuels. I have
8 handed counsel for Energy Fuels a copy of the text
9 of that report. There were some quality control
10 documents attached to that. And I would like to
11 admit this, the report including this slide, as
12 exhibit -- what are up to? 11?
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: 12.
14 MR. PARSONS: Thank you. It was
15 submitted to the EPA. It's a document in the EPA
16 files and includes the information that was not
17 included in the Dwyer report. Is there an
18 objection --
19 MR. GOAD: Do you have a copy?
20 MR. SPAANSTRA: Just note that we
21 are seeing this for the first time. That said --
22 and it is not relevant to this proceeding, because
23 it doesn't address Energy Fuels. But with that, no
24 objection to you putting it in.
25 MR. PARSONS: I would note that the
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1 EPA report -- sorry -- the Energy Fuels report
2 submitted to the EPA states that these samples were
3 collected from five mines that are represent --
4 they say representative of the ore that would be
5 processed in the Pinon Ridge Mill.
6 So I think that it's directly relevant to
7 the material that would be -- and representative of
8 the material that would be processed at the mill.
9 MR. SPAANSTRA: As I said, I have no
10 objection.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: You are
12 offering the entire report?
13 MR. PARSONS: I am.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Not just this
15 slide. I just want to make...
16 MR. STILLS: I believe the slide is
17 already in evidence in the record.
18 MR. PARSONS: The slide is not.
19 MR. STILLS: It's not? Oh, I'm
20 sorry. My apologies.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Is the report
22 in the record?
23 MR. PARSONS: It is not. It was
24 submitted to EPA but apparently never provided --
25 based on the administrative record in the case and
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1 the discovery responses, or lack thereof, that we
2 got from the State, it was never submitted to the
3 State. So we have identified this report as
4 providing information that apparently was not
5 considered to date.
6 MR. SPAANSTRA: Your Honor, we
7 believe we provided copies to CDPHE, so it's
8 probably in the record.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: But you don't
10 have any objection to the report coming in here, do
11 you?
12 MR. SPAANSTRA: No.
13 MR. GOAD: No objection.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Anybody?
15 Okay. It's in. And at some point, if you'd give
16 me a hard copy, I'd appreciate it.
17 (SMA Exhibit 12 was admitted.)
18 MR. GOAD: What is the date of the
19 report?
20 MR. PARSONS: The date of the report
21 is August 2010.
22 Q (By Mr. Parsons) And so, Dr. Maest, when
23 you look at these numbers, what do you see --
24 relative to what was analyzed in the Dwyer/Energy
25 Fuels report, what does this tell you?
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1 A Okay. Well, this is a little different.
2 This is part of the experiment that I talked about
3 where they neutralized raffinate and they raised
4 the pH to 4.5 and 7.5. So these top five here are
5 all the same pH value, 4.5. And they measured --
6 they didn't have all the constituents in this
7 report for some reason. But they did have the
8 radium 226 concentrations in the solution at these
9 pH values. And what I wanted to note is that the
10 Pandora and the Packrat raffinate at these pH
11 values have the lowest reading of 226 activity of
12 the five.
13 I don't know what the other constituents'
14 concentrations are for these other three ores, but
15 we just -- I just note that those are the lowest.
16 So I think the issue here is that we don't have a
17 good characterization of the raffinate or the
18 tailings material, for that matter, that is going
19 into these waste impoundments.
20 Q What additional characterization do you
21 think should have been done?
22 A Well, we should have received -- and
23 maybe it is in the record. I don't know. But we
24 should have received a full analyte list of the
25 results of their experiment. And the reason they
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1 were doing this experiment was to see if when you
2 increased the pH, if it was more environmentally
3 benign than it would be at the really low pH. So
4 we should have gotten the information for not just
5 two of these ores but all five of the ores to
6 really get a better picture of the characteristics,
7 chemical characteristics, of the raffinate.
8 In addition, I didn't see anything that
9 mixed this raffinate with the tailings, okay?
10 Usually, what's done at mines is you can send the
11 ore and you would just send core samples to --
12 there are a number of commercial labs and they will
13 literally make tailings for you. So you can make
14 the tailings and then mix them with this raffinate
15 and then take samples of that and see what the
16 concentrations are. So we don't have a good
17 characterization of the mixed raffinate and
18 tailings. We don't have a good characterization of
19 the raffinate because we only have a couple of
20 samples. And we don't have any characterization of
21 what happens to these over time.
22 When you mix really low pH waters with
23 tailings, you are going to be pulling out or
24 leaching contaminants from those tailings, and that
25 will be in the solution water. And we don't have
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1 any measurement of that, at least that I have
2 found.
3 Q Thank you. I would like to move on a
4 little bit to what is -- are you familiar with the
5 concept of contaminant pathways or exposure
6 pathways?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Could you describe what that is.
9 A That's something that you would consider
10 early on when you are evaluating the potential
11 environmental effects of a site. You would draw
12 kind of a picture that would be the conceptual
13 model of how these contaminants would move around.
14 You look at the source materials, and in this case
15 for the mill, it would be the raffinate and the
16 tailings and that mixture.
17 And then you would ask yourself, well,
18 how could this get out into the environment and how
19 could it move through soils, into groundwater,
20 through groundwater to surface water to expose to
21 biota, et cetera. So that's what we are talking
22 about with contaminant pathways.
23 Q In your review of the materials, did
24 Energy Fuels evaluate potential contaminant
25 pathways for the movement of those contaminants
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1 from the tailing impoundments and evaporation
2 ponds?
3 A Yes, they did to some extent, and that
4 was in the environmental report.
5 Q I'm pulling up a figure on the screen
6 here. This material is in the record. It's in the
7 environmental impact analysis, Figure 57 at Page
8 115.
9 Is this an accurate depiction of what was
10 in that?
11 A Yes, this is one of those diagrams. It's
12 not a nice picture. Instead, it's a bunch of boxes
13 and arrows. And this was in the environmental
14 impact assessment that was done by CDPHE, but it
15 was taken directly from the environmental report.
16 Q And this slide deals with human
17 receptors. There is another slide, also from the
18 environmental impact analysis. This is Figure 58
19 on Page 116 of the environmental impact analysis,
20 and this appears to be slightly different from the
21 previous.
22 Can you --
23 A Right.
24 Q -- identify and describe that difference.
25 A This is a lot of arrows kind of going in
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1 a lot of directions here, but maybe one to focus on
2 down here, it says, run off/seepage from
3 radioactive product material storage areas. For
4 example, those would be the raffinate evaporation
5 ponds and the tailings impoundments. So they are
6 considering runoff and seepage, and you follow this
7 arrow, okay, and it goes up to soil.
8 So they did evaluate that possible
9 pathway, that there could be leaks or overflows or,
10 you know, breach of, you know, somehow getting
11 those contaminants out to soils. And then it goes
12 to wind and surface soil, mammals, and birds.
13 There's actually no pathway in these ecological
14 receptors that evaluates the movement of leaks
15 through the soil to groundwater and then to surface
16 water.
17 And Connie Travers is going to talk a lot
18 more about that later than I am, but I just wanted
19 to bring that up as a missing pathway.
20 Q Were these slides also included in the
21 application materials?
22 A Yes, they were also -- these were taken
23 directly from the environmental report.
24 Q So the EIA took these slides and just
25 essentially copied them directly from Energy Fuels'
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1 application without any alteration?
2 A That's correct. They didn't seem to do
3 their own evaluation of possible contaminant
4 pathways in the environment.
5 And what -- I guess what we are most
6 concerned about here is the possibility that there
7 could be leaks of all those constituents that we
8 were talking about on the previous slides -- you
9 know, arsenic, cadmium, lead, uranium, vanadium, et
10 cetera -- through the bottoms of these impoundments
11 and go into the unsaturated zone and then move to
12 groundwater or to some of these arroyos. Those
13 pathways were not considered for the ecological
14 receptors.
15 Q In your experience, is that the type of
16 review or analysis that is typically done? Do they
17 typically analyze all of those potential receptors?
18 A Absolutely.
19 Q So this one excludes some potential
20 receptors?
21 A Right. And I think the reasoning behind
22 it was -- well, number one, we have a great
23 engineering system and we don't think it's going to
24 leak below the lowest liner. And the other --
25 Q I'm sorry. When you say, we have a great
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1 one, are you saying -- are you testifying to that
2 or are you characterizing?
3 A No. I'm sorry. Energy Fuels is saying
4 that they have a very good engineered system that
5 will not leak below the lowest liner and it's a
6 double-liner system.
7 The other issue is that, as was mentioned
8 a lot of times yesterday, Energy Fuels believes
9 that there is basically no groundwater on most of
10 the site.
11 Q So moving on a little bit, you have
12 talked about the relatively high levels of chemical
13 constituents in these waste streams, and you
14 touched on it before, but I wanted to get to it
15 more directly.
16 Are there ways to reduce those
17 concentrations to make that waste stream less
18 toxic?
19 A Yes, there are.
20 Q Can you give me some examples?
21 A Yeah. I mean, the most -- the cheapest
22 and the easiest one is the one that was evaluated
23 already, which is neutralization of the raffinate,
24 and lime is not very expensive. The sludge that
25 would be created from this could probably be put on
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1 the tailings impoundment, so you would raise the pH
2 and then a lot of the metal and other constituents'
3 concentrations would decrease. So that's one
4 approach, is neutralization.
5 Another one is the use of barium chloride
6 to remove radium. That's done routinely. In fact,
7 I think it was mentioned here yesterday for the
8 mine water, that if you added barium chloride, you
9 would be able to precipitate out uranium and radium
10 and maybe use that as feed to the mill. So there
11 are a number of methods that are used.
12 Q You mentioned that neutralization was
13 considered and that it is not a difficult or
14 expensive measure. Was that something that was
15 included in this plan for the mill?
16 A It was considered, but I believe what
17 Energy Fuels decided in the end was that it didn't
18 reduce the concentrations below wildlife ecological
19 thresholds and, therefore, it wasn't really worth
20 doing.
21 Q When you say ecological --
22 A It did for some, depending on the pH, but
23 not for all of them.
24 Q So neutralization -- what effect would
25 neutralization have?
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1 A It would raise the pH, so it would be
2 less acidic, and lower the concentrations. And
3 this was mostly thinking about putting this
4 raffinate out in evaporation ponds.
5 Q So it would result in the waste streams
6 being less toxic?
7 A Definitely.
8 Q And what might be a benefit of having
9 less toxic waste streams associated with a uranium
10 mill?
11 A Well, there are a number of benefits.
12 One is that the material -- well, the raffinate
13 that would be in the evaporation ponds would be
14 less toxic to birds and other wildlife that might
15 encounter it. Also, if it leaks through any of
16 these impoundments to the environment, the
17 concentrations would be lower and the pH would be
18 lower. And it would be less likely to leach
19 additional contaminants from the environment.
20 Another advantage that I think is really
21 important is that the pH would be lower and you
22 wouldn't have as much destruction of these liners
23 that are put in place.
24 Q You said the pH would be lower?
25 A I'm sorry. The pH would be higher.
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1 Q I see.
2 A Right. It would be less acidic. And the
3 potential destruction of the liners that would be
4 in contact with this raffinate and the tailings
5 mixed with raffinate, it would be less likely that
6 those liners would be adversely affected by this
7 really acidic solution.
8 Q What is the difference between -- should
9 there be a spill, is it between having higher
10 toxic -- a solution with a low pH that is more
11 acidic and higher toxicity to clean up a spill like
12 that versus cleaning up a spill that has -- or a
13 contamination that has a higher pH and less
14 toxicity? Is there a difference, in your
15 experience, in the effort and cost associated with
16 cleaning those?
17 A I mean, either way, if it gets into the
18 environment, it is not a happy situation. But you
19 would have less treatment of the solution that you
20 would need to extract from the unsaturated zone or
21 groundwater, and that would lower your remediation
22 costs.
23 Q We heard yesterday that the liners were
24 tested, essentially, for compatibility with the
25 anticipated acidic toxic waste streams.
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1 A Right.
2 Q Did you review those testing data?
3 A Yes, I did.
4 Q Can you tell me your -- in your opinion,
5 what -- how you would rate those, that testing, or
6 what they did and how it compares?
7 A What they did is they took the liner
8 material -- I believe it was the geomembrane -- and
9 they wetted it up a little bit. And then they
10 exposed it to this pH 1.8 raffinate, and they
11 exposed it for 48 hours, so two days, to this
12 acidic solution. And then they looked at the
13 integrity of the liner afterwards.
14 NRC recommends that you do this kind of
15 testing, but what they say is that it has to be
16 done for a sufficient period of time. And they
17 also note that degradation can occur rapidly after
18 about nine months of exposure. So I don't believe
19 that a two-day exposure of this raffinate to the
20 proposed lining materials is really representative
21 of what you would have out in the environment over
22 time.
23 Q And, again, with regard to the liners, if
24 you have -- what's the difference in integrity of
25 the liners between a low pH that is a high acidity
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1 solution versus a more neutral solution? How do
2 the liners hold up under those various conditions?
3 A If they are exposed to -- and I'm not an
4 expert in this engineering piece of it. But if the
5 liners are exposed to very low pH solutions for a
6 long period of time, they will become brittle and
7 crack and more holes will be in the liner than if
8 they are not exposed to an acidic solution.
9 Q Moving on a little bit. You talked about
10 how -- you know, we have got a solution here that
11 would be, again, highly acidic and toxic. Were
12 there some measures that you identified -- and we
13 talked about the ecological receptors.
14 Were there some measures included to help
15 protect, for instance, birds or other wildlife?
16 A Yeah. Part of the plan was to put a
17 netting over the evaporation ponds and also to have
18 bird balls over the -- kind of the water, what's
19 called the tailings supernate, the water sitting on
20 the top of the tailings cells -- to have bird balls
21 over those to cut down on the exposure of birds to
22 both of those waste materials.
23 Q Would neutralization be an accepted or,
24 in your experience, a typical measure that would be
25 considered and adopted to reduce that threat of
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1 exposure?
2 A Yes. And the NRC recommends that
3 tailings that are created by acid leach should be
4 neutralized before they're put in cells.
5 Q And do we have an acid leach mill system
6 proposed here?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, you mentioned -- and we heard
9 yesterday a little about -- and you were here
10 yesterday listening to testimony?
11 A Yes.
12 Q You heard about the bird netting, how
13 originally it was proposed at 2-inch and then it
14 was changed to three-quarters inch?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And that presumably was designed to help
17 protect larger birds or keep the impacts from --
18 the wildlife being caught in this netting, to limit
19 those to smaller bird or bats.
20 Would reducing the size of that netting
21 have an effect on the chemical characteristics of
22 those ponds?
23 A It would indirectly, and that's because
24 the -- when you reduce the mesh size to
25 three-quarter inch, it's more like a solid fabric
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1 than if it's 2-inch mesh. So it's good in terms of
2 excluding the birds, but it's not very good in
3 terms of evaporation.
4 The proposal is that 63 gallons per
5 minute would be evaporated from these raffinate
6 solution ponds. With a smaller mesh, you are going
7 to definitely decrease the evaporation rate.
8 Q Did you see an analysis of the effects of
9 having that lower evaporation rate?
10 A No. And what should be done is the water
11 balance needs to be recalculated with this new
12 proposed mesh that we have heard about, and I did
13 not see that recalculation of the water balance
14 anywhere. And that's important because then you
15 might need a different amount of water or you might
16 have more water there -- you would have more water
17 there than you had planned for originally.
18 Q In your expert opinion, if you were to
19 change a characteristic of the evaporation ponds in
20 that way, would you expect to see the recalculation
21 component and incorporate it into the design?
22 A Yes. And that's something that should be
23 done at this stage, not after operations start.
24 Q Moving on to some of the waste
25 containment measures that we're talking about that
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1 have been proposed for this mill, are you familiar
2 in your review of the application materials with
3 the waste containment plan?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Can you describe it briefly with respect
6 to the tailings, in particular.
7 A Okay. Well, there are tailings cells.
8 The first tailing cell is divided into two, and
9 then there are two other potential future cells.
10 And the plan for the containment is a double liner,
11 a 60-mil HDPE liner on the top, and then a material
12 in between the two that has a higher permeability
13 or a higher ability to have water move through it,
14 and then underneath that, another 60-mil HDPE
15 liner, and under that, a geo-synthetic liner that
16 basically would be a manufactured clay liner under
17 that. In between those two HDPE liners would be a
18 leachate collection and removal system, and they
19 could pump any water that went through the first
20 liner through that to decrease the pressure on the
21 lower liner.
22 Q Is that a similar design proposed for the
23 raffinate ponds?
24 A Yes.
25 Q So we have got double liners and a leak
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1 detection system in between them, just to make sure
2 I'm clear.
3 A Yes.
4 Q In your experience, are -- do liners
5 leak?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Would you say that these measures are
8 failsafe?
9 A No. I think -- it used to be that there
10 was a lot of denial about liners leaking, and now
11 everyone pretty much admits, okay, liners leak. So
12 I don't think there is a lot of controversy about
13 that anymore.
14 Q And did you find, in your review of the
15 materials an acknowledgment -- and I think we may
16 have heard it yesterday in testimony -- that Energy
17 Fuels concedes and recognizes that, yes, liners
18 leak?
19 A Yes, they did. They have.
20 Q How does that square with a position that
21 there is no need for the -- to analyze that
22 ecological receptor of potentially having
23 contamination leak through those two liners?
24 A Well, I mean, in my opinion, it doesn't
25 square with it. But I think the thinking behind it
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1 is, we have a leachate collection and removal
2 system in between these two liners and then a kind
3 of manufactured clay liner underneath, and we don't
4 think it is going to go through the lower liner or
5 this clay liner underneath that.
6 Q Are you familiar with other liner designs
7 that would account for that possibility, for --
8 that is to say, account for, you know, the
9 possibility that the lower liner would also have
10 leaks?
11 A Yes, those are becoming more common.
12 Q And where, in your experience, have you
13 seen such a liner designed and installed?
14 A I mean, there -- now even municipal
15 landfills are using double liners with leachate
16 collection systems and -- you know, in between the
17 liners and underneath. And the one that I made
18 into a demonstrative is the Fernald site in Ohio,
19 which is a low-level radioactive waste disposal.
20 There's kind of mixed waste, but part of it is
21 low-level radioactive waste. So that is similar to
22 what would be at the Pinon Ridge Mill.
23 And this, I think, would be definitely
24 considered state of the art right now. And there
25 are -- okay. And just in the general sense,
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1 looking at the waste materials from farther away
2 here, there is a double liner, there's leachate
3 collection and removal in between those two liners.
4 But the thing that they have that Energy Fuels has
5 not proposed is this horizontal monitoring pipe.
6 It can be slotted at different locations here so
7 that when and if leachate goes through that bottom
8 liner, you have a very close-by way to get that
9 material out of there, to get the solution out of
10 there and see if it is leaking and see what the
11 concentrations are. So that's kind of the overview
12 of it.
13 If you look -- it's probably not very
14 easy to see here, but there's a couple of liners,
15 there's a number of clay liners and then synthetic
16 liners all lined up on top of each other. There's
17 opportunity to -- a leachate removal system in
18 between those. And then under the lowest liner,
19 there's another system to prevent migration. And
20 even under that, there is another pipe that would
21 remove any leaking solution that would get through
22 the lowest liner and send that to a collection
23 facility.
24 Q In a situation like a uranium/vanadium
25 mill, what would -- you know, in general terms,
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1 what would be the benefit of having a detection
2 system under that lowest -- or what are the
3 potential consequences of not having such a system
4 in place?
5 A If you don't have that kind of a system
6 in place, you don't know if you have any leakage
7 below the lowest liner. And then you don't know --
8 and I really do believe the way the monitoring
9 system is set up right now, that a lot could happen
10 without Energy Fuels knowing about it.
11 If you have a leak detection system and a
12 leachate collection and removal system underneath
13 the lowest liner, you at least know if you are
14 having leaks below that lowest liner.
15 Q Are there other additional systems that
16 can be put in place to minimize the risk associated
17 with, you know, accidents or leaks or spills,
18 particularly with respect to leaks from piping?
19 A With piping, you can have double-walled
20 piping. You can have lined collection ditches, and
21 Energy Fuels has proposed a line collection ditch.
22 And I believe -- at least what I have most recently
23 read -- it was proposed to be single-walled piping.
24 So that's another possible contaminant transport
25 pathway, is these pipes that are bringing tailings
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1 out to the tailings impoundment and raffinate out
2 to the evaporation ponds. They could breach. So
3 you need to make sure that those are best practice
4 as well.
5 Q Are there any other aspects of the
6 contaminant containment design that you found to be
7 less than comprehensive in your review of the
8 materials?
9 A The tailings impoundment cells are mostly
10 below grade. They are 80 percent below grade, but
11 20 percent of the material or the impoundment would
12 be above grade. The best practice there would
13 definitely be to have the entire impoundment below
14 grade. If you don't have it all below grade, then
15 the berms could potentially breach and the
16 radioactive material could be released into the
17 environment.
18 I did not see an evaluation of that
19 possible pathway. It might be there, but I
20 certainly didn't see it. And I think we heard a
21 little bit from Mr. Filas about why they decided
22 not to put them entirely below grade. But that
23 would definitely be best practice at this type of
24 facility.
25 Q Back a little bit, just to finish up with
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1 the liner systems, I guess to start: Is the liner
2 system with the leak detection below it, is it
3 unique? Would that be something that you would
4 expect to -- is it unique in the mining industry?
5 A No, it's not. You know, gold mining --
6 gold mines that have heap leach operations have
7 pregnant leach solution ponds that are double-lined
8 with leachate collection underneath with what's
9 called vadose zone or unsaturated zone monitoring.
10 So those have been in use for a long time, and so
11 it's not unique, no.
12 Q You used the word "vadose zone." Can you
13 tell me what that means.
14 A That would be the area underneath the
15 soil, and it can include the soil, that would be
16 between the ground surface and the regional water
17 table. Connie Travers is going to talk a lot more
18 about that, but that's a quick definition.
19 Q Okay. In your experience, have similar
20 systems like that design that you saw, proposed
21 design for the Pinon Ridge Mill, are they of such
22 integrity that it would render planning for failure
23 a superfluous task, you know, unneeded to look at
24 the potential for failure?
25 A No. You always have to plan for failure.
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1 You hope for the best, but you can't base your
2 monitoring program on hope. In fact, the Nuclear
3 Regulatory, NRC, recommends that -- in fact, says
4 that you can't assume that liners won't leak. So
5 the liners under the tailings impoundment, the
6 liners under the evaporation ponds, you have to
7 assume they will leak and set up the monitoring
8 program so that you can detect, at least detect.
9 And then you have a chance of fixing it more
10 rapidly and having less contamination of the
11 environment.
12 Q And does that apply to both the first
13 liner -- are they talking about only the first
14 liner or does that apply to both -- in a
15 double-lined system, would that same recommendation
16 apply to both liners?
17 A No. It applies to both. You have to
18 assume that, even though you have a double liner
19 and a leachate collection system and removal system
20 in between, that it still could leak through that
21 bottom liner.
22 Q Are you familiar with other areas that
23 have had problems with their liner systems, other
24 uranium mills, even, that had have such problems?
25 A Yes. Although they don't have such a
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1 great engineering system, but there are
2 certainly -- in fact, the work that I did at the
3 Cavira Mill in New Mexico, they had lined solution
4 ponds that leaked. So it wouldn't be the first
5 time we have heard about this.
6 Q Are there states that indeed would --
7 state laws pertaining to lining design and such
8 leak detection?
9 A Yeah, there are -- I didn't do an
10 exhaustive search, but the State of Oregon requires
11 this for cyanide ponds, but not only cyanide. Any
12 solution pond that would have toxic solution waste
13 in it, you are required to have a double liner and
14 a leachate collection and removal system underneath
15 the lowest liner. And California also has
16 something similar.
17 MS. LUCAS: Your Honor, we would
18 like to register an objection that she's testifying
19 as to a legal conclusion.
20 MR. PARSONS: I would say she is
21 merely testifying as to her understanding, that
22 there are other states in the country that require
23 this type of design she is talking about, and that
24 is her understanding of the requirements in the
25 industry.
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1 THE HEARING OFFICER: To the extent
2 it's a legal conclusion, I will sustain it. To the
3 extent it's -- and that gets us to the question of
4 whether it's regulatory or statutory. The
5 witness -- her experience, it's good enough, but
6 I'll take the objection. I don't have a good
7 answer.
8 Q (By Mr. Parsons) I have some questions
9 about the -- you mentioned a little bit about the
10 tailings impoundment being above grade and the
11 potential for failure of the retention berms.
12 What is a way to mitigate that potential?
13 A You mean if they are --
14 Q Well, in this case, we have a facility
15 that is mostly below grade. Is there a way to
16 better protect against such failure?
17 A I mean, the best approach would be to put
18 it 100 percent below grade. And if you are not
19 doing that, then you would need monitoring, you
20 know, around the sides of the impoundment. But the
21 best approach would definitely be to put the entire
22 thing below grade.
23 Q And what's the consequence of having
24 above-grade facilities?
25 A I think the main concern is storms that
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1 could come through. The impoundments are proposed
2 to be there for 40 years. We are in a changing
3 climate environment. We don't know what the future
4 climate could be, but there could be increased
5 frequency of strong storms. So the idea is that
6 those berms could be breached during a strong
7 storm. If they're below grade, there is a much
8 lower chance of that.
9 Q In your review of the materials, was that
10 scenario addressed? Was that contingency planned
11 for?
12 A You mean to monitor or put it below
13 grade?
14 Q I'm sorry. Was the potential for severe
15 storms or otherwise breaches of the retention
16 berms, was there a plan in place to protect against
17 that?
18 A I believe what we heard is that there was
19 a plan for visual observation of the berms. I did
20 not see anything that was a plan to shore up the
21 berms in a more stable way or to increase
22 monitoring. I also don't recall seeing a pathway
23 for breaching of the berms in the tailings
24 impoundment and getting contaminants into the
25 environment. So I don't think it was thoroughly
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1 evaluated.
2 Q Thank you. One of the aspects that we
3 saw identified with respect to this site is some of
4 the faults that are -- that exist. Did you
5 identify any faulting in your review of the
6 materials that may exist at the site?
7 A Yes, and I think we have seen maps
8 showing the faults. There are two faults that run
9 through this site, and I didn't see anything about
10 potential movement of contaminants along those
11 faults. And I believe that one of the tailings
12 impoundments, the fault goes right underneath that.
13 And the concern there isn't necessarily movement
14 along the fault, but if there is a leak, getting
15 that into the fault and then moving it offsite.
16 Q Okay. I'm coming to a close on this
17 aspect.
18 Would you consider this facility state of
19 the art, in your experience?
20 A It is definitely not state of the art.
21 Q Would you, in your expert opinion --
22 what's your opinion as to whether Energy Fuels has
23 adequately analyzed potential impacts from
24 potential contaminant releases at the site?
25 A I think there is some very important
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1 missing pathways that were not evaluated in the
2 environmental report or in the EIA. The most
3 important ones being the movement of contaminants
4 from leaks through these impoundments, through the
5 soil material, the unsaturated zone, to arroyos.
6 That was not evaluated.
7 Q I would like to move on to a portion of
8 your written testimony. You spoke about the term
9 "adaptive management."
10 Are you familiar with the term "adaptive
11 management"?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Can you describe what you mean by that?
14 A It's a management approach for industrial
15 and other types of facilities that assumes that we
16 don't know everything up front and that as a
17 facility is operated, you have a better idea of how
18 management and monitoring might change.
19 However, it's not an excuse not to plan
20 and not to do monitoring; quite the opposite. The
21 idea is that you would look at all the possible
22 contaminant pathways and you would, as best you
23 can, come up with the state-of-the-art monitoring
24 and operation. And then as the facility opens and
25 has experience, you know, to have, let's say,
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1 if/then. You know, if this happens, here is what
2 we are going to do.
3 Q Is that -- would that be a typical -- or
4 in your experience, is that a design practice
5 that's typically used in the industry?
6 A It is becoming more and more common, and
7 I would consider it a best management practice.
8 Q And is it an important aspect? Would you
9 consider it an important aspect of a mill design?
10 A It is because -- I mean, for example, I
11 didn't see anything that says, you know, if the --
12 you know, we have the two liners and the leachate
13 removal collection system in between the two. So
14 there is a certain rate that you would be pumping
15 at that would be called an action level. And above
16 that action level, then something would have to
17 happen, okay? You know, you would have to drain,
18 let's say, the evaporation cell and maybe fix the
19 liner. I didn't see anything that would say, all
20 right, uh-oh, the leachate collection removal rate
21 is increasing quite a bit here. What do we do?
22 There was one table, and I think it was
23 Volume 2, Appendix B1 of the tailings management
24 that said leachate action level. It mentioned it,
25 but I didn't see anywhere else where it said,
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1 here's the level that we think we want to use and
2 here is what we're going to do if we reach that
3 action level.
4 Q Some of the work you have done -- has
5 some of the work you have done dealt with
6 identifying potential financial liabilities for a
7 mill in case things don't go as planned?
8 A To some extent. I'm not a financial
9 expert on this, but I've certainly evaluated
10 remediation costs at a number of mines.
11 Q So your experience is more when something
12 goes wrong, what are the costs associated with
13 that?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Would an adaptive management plan be a
16 component of ensuring that the costs are controlled
17 with regard to a uranium mill?
18 A It would be. If you know as quickly as
19 possible when something does go wrong and you have
20 a plan for how you are going to fix it, then that
21 definitely decreases on the remediation costs in
22 the end.
23 Q Have you reviewed any information
24 regarding final remediation costs at other uranium
25 mill sites?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q In your report, your written testimony
3 that you submitted, did you include some of
4 those -- examples of those costs?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q And is this that table you have?
7 A Yes, it's very hard to see, but...
8 Q So that is that table from your report.
9 Can you describe what you see here and
10 why you include it and what point you were making.
11 A These are a number of mill sites in
12 different states around the country, uranium mill
13 sites. And this -- these two columns here are the
14 uranium ore process. The first one is the ore that
15 was mined that went to these mills, and this is how
16 much uranium was produced. This is -- the
17 remediated material volume is how many million
18 cubic yards was remediated and the total cost for
19 remediating those.
20 You can see that there is a pretty wide
21 range. The highest cost is this one in Grand
22 Junction, and I think it was Kim Morrison that
23 mentioned they had to move a lot of material for
24 that one, and that was pretty costly.
25 Q So just to clarify, the numbers on the
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1 right are the final remediation costs, and those
2 numbers, it says, are in thousands of U.S. dollars?
3 A Right. That's 540 million U.S. dollars.
4 Q And are those costs higher than what you
5 understand to be the bond in place at this
6 facility?
7 A Most of them are quite a bit higher. I
8 believe the bond for Energy Fuels at Pinon Ridge is
9 now 15 million, and there are some that are down in
10 that range. But they aren't -- you know, there are
11 also quite a few higher than that.
12 Q Of course, we recognize -- or do you
13 recognize that all of these sites -- I mean, there
14 hasn't been a new uranium mill built in the United
15 States in some time.
16 A Right. In 30 years it's my understanding
17 there hasn't been a uranium mill that's been
18 permitted. So a lot of these are -- somebody might
19 say, well, it's not really fair, because they
20 didn't have the same environmental protections or
21 engineered barriers, for example, as a mill that
22 would be permitted now. But I think that the main
23 message is that if things do go wrong, that it is
24 quite expensive to remediate these sites.
25 Q So, again, with respect to the adaptive
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1 management strategy you discussed, would you
2 consider that a necessary component of a competent
3 mill design and mitigation plan?
4 A I do.
5 Q I guess, again, based on your testimony
6 here today, would you consider that -- with your
7 review of the materials, do you think that the
8 planned designed for the Pinon Ridge Mill take into
9 account all of the aspects that they should have?
10 A No, they don't. There are a number of
11 important missing protective measures that could
12 have been incorporated in the design, that should
13 have been incorporated in the design, to make it
14 best practice and most protective in the
15 environment. I mentioned a few of them. I guess
16 the ones that I'm focusing on are: What happens
17 if, you know, these really acidic, high-metal
18 concentration solutions leak out into the
19 environment? We need more protections than what
20 there is now proposed.
21 Q And why are those protections important?
22 A Because you could have environmental
23 receptors, including groundwater, surface water,
24 and ecological receptors -- birds, wildlife, et
25 cetera -- that could be exposed to these toxic
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1 materials.
2 Q You know, we talked about how some of
3 these mills are old or kind of a previous life of
4 the uranium mining industry. Is there any
5 difference in the waste between what they produced
6 then in terms of waste and what we have now?
7 A No, there really isn't. I mean, it is
8 definitely true that the engineered solutions and
9 the barriers have improved greatly in, let's say,
10 30 years. There are a lot better designs for
11 preventing or minimizing the release of these
12 wastes to the environment.
13 However, the wastes that are put in these
14 impoundments are every bit as toxic as they have
15 ever been. So the raffinate is extremely toxic,
16 and there have really been