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E-Truck Task ForceIndustry Meeting #2

Bill Van AmburgSenior Vice President

Whitney PitkanenProject Manager

August 4, 2011

Advanced Transportation Technologies and Solutions

Copyright CALSTART 2011

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Today’s Agenda

1. Feedback from Fleet Meeting #2 • (which was held on July 21st)

2. Battery/component common approaches

3. Infrastructure needs


• EVSE: Level 2 most common (some limited consideration of fast charge)– Saw range from 25-50 Amps so far – need more data on Amp level and

effective rate in kw.

• Infrastructure installation costs: $3,300 per 1 charge site (range: $1500 – 8,000; $10,000 w/conduit). – But several fleets reflected that this single number was likely too low

– It does not include costs to upgrade service, contingency options, smart meters, load management software, or the cost of bringing more power to a facility, as needed (which can be substantial for tens+ of trucks).

– Fleets are concerned that these significant costs can effectively consume the value of the fuel savings and reduce chances of vehicle payback.

Feedback from Fleet Meeting #2


• Charge time: Most overnight (8 hours); some use after 3 hours (80% recharge); 25% plan for rapid recharge soon (<3 hours)

• Charge Frequency: 87% once/day (present); limited twice a day if need to drive beyond range

• Recharge location: With some early vehicles, being moved to where power available; with larger vehicles, must install infrastructure where vehicles normally park– Some considering placing infrastructure in employee lot; provide

workplace charging during day, fleet vehicle charging at night



• Battery pack expectations: Most fleets expect the pack to last life of vehicle (10 years) – Concern in some cases there may be one or even two replacements

(notes that there have been few or no hybrid battery replacements)

– Average battery warranty: 5 years

• One fleet plans for replacement at the end of the 4 year warranty period as part of his business model (based on the fact that his warranty was only 36 months). This damages the business case!!!

– Fleets want better BMS mostly to ensure that the battery functions properly and can be fully diagnosed, especially since their experience with earlier lead acid battery packs for EPTO applications showed very poor, if any, battery management.



• Business Case – 70-100 miles/day seems like an initial “sweet spot” for fuel savings payback, but

some city fleets see much less mileage (e.g., refuse , utility trucks), though they will displace 28-45 diesel gallons per day.

– Value proposition should focus on fuel displacement or gallons per day or year offset, rather than only miles per day

– Other costs: accelerated tire wear due to higher torque and battery weight. – Other benefits: e-trucks allow for additional operating hours in residential

neighborhoods, and provide more flexibility of time and thus faster operation, which can result in potentially cost savings or revenue gains. (hard to quantify – application specific)

• Other issues:– a standardized training program (developed with/for early fleets and including eco

driving skills) would be excellent.– warning sounds for e-vehicles – is heavy duty sector considering this?



Fleet Next Steps

• Fleets would like a “template” and check list to guide steps, costs and options for infrastructure– CALSTART drafting

• CALSTART outlining a “general” business case and use guidance document fleets can use

• Will be vetting with industry group


Battery / Component Common Approaches

Battery Life: •Based on the following standard use profiles for e-trucks, how long do you anticipate battery life to extend? (Assume once a day charging at Level 2).

– 70 mile/day fixed route suburban delivery:• Energy Storage Providers: 3-5 years (33%), 5-8 years (33%), 10 years (33%)• Industry: 5-8 years (25%), 8 years (50%),10 years (25%),

– 80% daily battery discharge work site vehicle (e.g., utility truck):• Energy Storage Providers: 4-6 years (33%), 5-7 years (33%), 10 years (33%)• Industry: 5 years (22%), 7 years (11%), 8-10 years (55%), 12 years (11%)

– 20 mile/day urban driving:• Energy Storage Providers: 7-10 years (33%), 8-10 years (33%), 10 years (33%)• Industry: 4-6 years (37%), 10 years (50%), 15 years (12%)


Battery Cost:•How much do you anticipate it will it cost to replace batteries in the following years (installed pack per kwh):

– 2015:• Energy Storage Providers: $500/kWh (50%), $600/kWh (50%)• Industry: $270-300/kWh (33%), $450 kWh (16%), $1,500/kWh (50%)

– 2020:• Energy Storage Providers: $450/kWh • Industry: $200 - $230/kWh (33%), $350/kWh (16%), $1,000/kWh (50%)

– 2025: • Energy Storage Providers: $300/kWh• Industry: $100-175/kWh (33%), $300/kWh (16%), $500/kWh (16%), $750/kWh (33%)



Other Battery Issues:•Is it more likely that entire packs will be replaced, or just cells or modules?

– Industry group feels it will be pack replacement for transportation uses of batteries; possibly modules at some point if support industry develops

• Energy Storage Providers: Module or Pack level, not cell (100%)• Industry: Pack (85%), Module (15%)

•Should fleets consider reconditioning or replacement? • Industry seems to think replacement for now; though reconditioning possible in future; safety and cost

concerns

• Energy Storage Providers: Replacement (66%), Unclear (34%)• Industry: Replacement (57%), Both (14%), Unclear (28%)

•What are cost differences between these approaches?• Energy Storage Providers: Unclear (100%)• Industry: Unclear (100%)



Other Battery Issues:•Is it more likely that entire packs will be replaced, or just cells or modules?

– Industry group feels it will be pack replacement for transportation uses of batteries; possibly modules at some point if support industry develops

•Should fleets consider reconditioning or replacement? – Industry seems to think replacement for now; though reconditioning

possible in future; safety and cost concerns

•What are cost differences between these approaches?



Proposed Agenda Topics for Industry Meeting #3

• Follow-up/updates/new info from August 4th issues

• Feedback from Fleet Meeting #3 (to be held late August)

• Vet and review draft general business case and infrastructure template

Suggested date:

– September 8

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