%' M3S14(15)

v

%13

REV MQSELANE

UNIDENTIFIED MAT.R VOICE INTERRUPTS:

and listen to us.(Clapping of hands and a shout of\Awethu) f j + _fT

Now I hope we shoulcj^interruption, audience speaks at the same time making noise). I hope that because/he does not want to respond to us, we do notP0- ana we should publicise it in the newspaper Now the fight conceminc^he increased rental

Ja!

it 1C

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REV MOSELANE

UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE

There is a loophole in the law. They can betaken to court. Now we are supposed to talk about these two things. The petition or probably engage a lawyer to make a court interdict, fj

Yes! He spoke well. He was speaking for such a thing.

it /3

UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE

REV MDSELANE

At the moment lodgers' permits and permits are being paid by hostel 'inrates: but we too pay it. ■■ - When the municipality arrives with his key he locks his house. You have paid the lodgers' permit, but you sleep outside with your father who has not paid the rent. So we too are affected because we too have your permits and. our lodgers' permits. Excuse me.(Clapping of hands).

Let us understand one another ,/ ven though I do not know the law very well, but the lawyer says that those people who have houses can insist.There is a probability of instituting a court interdict, tit does not mean that permit holders ~— are left in the lurch.

. ' MDS14(15)>

14

REV MOSELANE

UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE

REV MOSELANE

It will embrace the whole Vaal. Every black person who resides here will benefit should we succeed. ^ —

(Clapping of hands and shouts of Amandla frcm audience).

Are you saying something sir?

J TOur feelings are that we are not paying rent. If they are not able to agree we shall prove ourselves as being capable of fighting. -(CLapping of hands).

Let us understand one another (murmur frcm audience)^”" Quiet! Let us not approach things emotionally.

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/L

AUDIENCE Yes.

REV MOSELANE

MOKGEMA

Do not take things up just because you want to be known. Let us take things up knowing that there is

— someone we can reply on. Let u ^ grocppH. (noise in audience, what they say cannot be heard).J T * -IFNow this child, when his father arrives frcm work, he tells your father what you have been doing the whole day. \Does it not mean that there is an

. informer in the family?

AUDIENCE SHOOTS:

MOKGEMA

There is.

Now to be (cannot be heard well) about that ... (cannot be heard well). That is to say one thing only, that is, on the day of the 3rd. These sneaks that will sneak out. They once sneaked in to install ..SQkles,/ Others slept at the factory, it is not known how they slSpt. Others slept at work. r

n&

n3-0

* * M3S14<15)v 15

Now on that day in question these sneaks will board these buses or these taxis. All buses, taxis will be stopped from corning in here. Only when this issue shall have been discussed with those in authority :can they care in to ferry people going to work

(Clapping of hands, background noises) . tr ?/voict

REV MOSELANE I do not know, I believe that/there is anattractive case, which we must probably see hew it goes (... interrupting)L. jj—

UNIDENTIFIED MALEV0ICE : Now let us discuss whether to stop, to institute

the court interdict before the 1st September 1984 for the court to stop the\municipality from increasing rentals. * We must ccme to a conclusion and ask Father Moselane whether that is possible. So, fellow citizens let us carry on with discussions. reach a conclusion, because the sun will soon set: so that we can leave while there is time, because\if we

—do not resolve the money issue we will run awav. w p

are going to run away. Let us talk ... let us talk. We must be practical, we have got .to be practical. No attorney can work without money. So that, let us talk about ten people ... people of God who are going to be burdened with our work. So Mr Moselane go on from that point.

REV MOSELANE : Let me respond to that so that we m y proceed. Thismatter,

*£614(15)16

I believe last week or two v«eks back there was a case-- pi Rathanda^fc is truet\we must be reliable. We

must not say that it is all right and later turn around and say that the comittee will see to finish, saying that I am no longer paying the increased rent and then disappear. You see. Then you shall be leaving us in trouble. We do not have money. We started by saying that we do not have it (murmurs ...). But now then, just that (male voice and cannot be heard clearly ...) Eh. I do not hear. I did not hear sir./ You see, the thing is ... (background ^ >7noises) //

This is one of the issues we will conclude with, that is how we are going to set the issue forth.\ Firstly

— let us sav (cough) eh let us say that the issue we mast look at is that even the industries too when there is no progress in their business, they shelve some of their projects. E.g. Massey Fergusson sells tractors, he ploughs the whole of Africa. But because there is (audience noisy) there is famine, drought.They have discontinued their projects and seme people's jobs were affected because of this. Now this is one of the reasons to be given because the increase in rentals is because there are projects. So there is a strong case of showing that even with other firms, we know that Massey Fergusson has tractors and ploughs but because of the drought he has discontinued sore projects. This is one of the points that can be made when we consult. (Audience makes noises that cannot be heard clearly.)

You hear that ... there you are ... there are manyreasons. Now then we can go into the second point ifthere is nothing else. Then ... (interruption in f f $1tape). i __

yyUz. Ictfi*

* M3S14 (15)

*>17

MKHKANAZI : There are certain things termed luxury. That is, Ibelieve that those of us who cone from "Top" know that ws used to live by lighting a candle or paraffin, but in the course of time things changed. Then it happened that when we were already here the bucket system was changed and the water borne sewerage was

------------------ ^ stalled./ Later we did away with the sewerage system/-si j__:_1 i ----

and electricity was installed. But now then (if_there is famine is your leader wise if he savs you should remove the bucket system or remove candles and yet you are famished? Do you realise what it is when the reverend father says that projects are beLng shelved? It means reasons that if you want to erect a tombstone for your grandfather but then it means one child, you

children from schooVeven before they finish. Because you must erect a tombstone for your grandfather you are forced tochoose between these two things (interruption in /]~ . tanp} /'tape). --- .

Is that the thinking of our leaders? Are/ve not striving for our children to go to university, when we apply for them at high schools? Are we not striving for you to also have brown shoes and ... (interruption & V on tapeK/ Projects means what you want to see happening, when you wanted to extend your house and you find that your child is finishing next year at school then if you are to extend the house this year hhe must leave school. Why don't you wait till next year? \g?ey do not want to wait for thn^

- M0514(15) 19

*>

r C a * ^ ^ o u ggive you such amount of money J By so doing he will instill in the younger brother the idea that he must demand more than what he receives fran the father. on

rr **The fact is that ... I think, listen sir^y I ... let us yo<uL ick* get to the next subject. (Interruption - audience °makes noises that cannot be heard clearly. )f/\Know that ^ firstly we resolved to seek a court interdict. Now if

AUDIENCE:

it happens that the court interdict fails, then the petition will carry weight and then if the petition carries weight we will be hitting them frcm both sides from all sides. I believe that this will be very authentic. He said so, let us test what he says. He said it this week in the newspaper that if he can get a petition and that is not the petition alone but with an accompanying letter probably a mandate. So I think we are agreed. Then let us get into the issue of the petition] (background noises).

IT * zs■— ~ yccc- ic nt

Background noises.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE:

REV MOSELANE:

It means that we already have an answer to the first.j r 1/0 /C £ i ndCof-

Let’s understand one: another.Court interdict means that if the court agrees, it says,- "Don't increase thq rent on the 1st September until-the matter is heard in court". ; You: see,: <>. V.’ ,• - v-

MDS14(15) 20

*

.so that's court interdict. This means that we say that there must be an order which will add that as from the 1st. That means the lawyer writes a letter saying, "You the town council we are taking you to court. / We want to stop you ytrom increasing rents frcm jthe 1st September until we get to court ..." That is a court interdict. It is court interdict before

l/O'ce

AUDIENCE:

proceedings. Eh Eh ... (clapping of hands)~fj. Now & >7that the ... which means ... Eh __ (cannot be heardclearly). \The other issue now, the petition - what do you say about the petition - should we make the petition?

Let it be done!!!

REV MOSELANE:

MKHWANAZI:

That is clear.

You see, the thing called petition, beloved Africans!I think it is not going to be easy to make it in themanner in which we gathered here - that is accordingto my observation. You will correct me. We arehelping one another here. The way I see it, it issimple. We have six blocks in Sharpevilie. Is it not so?

AUDIENCE:

MKHWANAZI;

Yes! Yes!

It behoves us here to elect ourselve^ sub-ccrmdtteesblock by block, i.e. Putswa Steen, Pelindaba, etc. Each block should have its people to circulate the Petition. It is the only easiest way in which it can be circulated in a short space of time.\ At this instant, you will find that of the people present heremost are frcm the same block, others are not present. So you agree? j r

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M0S14 (15) 21

AUDIENCE:

UNIDENTIFIEDVOICE:

REV MOSELANE

UNIDENTIFIEDVOICE:

REV MOSELANE:

BOTHA:

MKHWANAZI:

Yes!

MALEDo not waste ray time.

I hope, I hope we are progressing.^^//

MALE... When he has just got married. Now try that these things must come to a stop. That’s all.

us say this important thing you have raised (interruption) . ^JJT

Until you have appealed to the court of law, I wholeheartidly agree with that. But as I taLk we should have an alternative. I agree. Proceed with it. You have our support. We are going to proceed with it. Now the thing is number one, there is an issue we have been avoiding. After we have submitted the petition to the Italian and he says, then we stop him, telling him that on a set day his buses should not, enter, what should then happen if his buses enter? (Portion of audience shouts and applauds.)* - ... £*.. * " •'* .: f C**v.

... when they enter __

J - j H .

HLUBI: He Botha always does this! OF- h-7-

tv * / >

. M0S14(15) 22

REV f-DSELANE;

BOTHA:

REV MOSELANE:

AUDIENCE:

ALL:

AUDIENCE:

Beloved of God let us say ... Order! We can't just ... everyone to suggest ...

1 too can come up v/ith anything (interruption) .

Why can't we spendyone hour for a useful thing? (clapping of hands) p —

XZ1C

, O O ^ C<-

Then we will ask those people who know it to lead us. Our time is (cannot be heard well) now. They should lead. We have put them ... eh! (cannot be heard well) Are there any others who know it (cannot be heard well) ... he! Please cone children of the people, carte this way then we can proceed.

Yes!

Nkosi sikelele Afrika Morena boloka sechaba sa heso

Amandla! Awethu! Airandla! Awethu! Africa! Izwe lefhu!

*(-

j rJvi/e/ (/

, - ‘ • . f o INa»valollo ya dipolelo tsa kopanoncj ya Sontaga 26 August 1984 * '(Dibui di supilwe ke Moruti T.G. Moselane)

Mantswe a sa tsebiweng: 0 sia batho ba bang. Koloi ha e ya loka

SEFELA : Re ya ho boka MorenaRe ntse re thabela wena Re sa phela ha monate Ka paballo ya hao Ntate

Re Pholositswe ka mohau ko dineo tsohle tsa hao

) Reko la hao le leho-loLe re thabisitse pelo

Kganna jwale bana ba hao Ba ye ka taba tsa molao E be joko e bobebe E sikarwang ka sebete - Amen

P Hlubi: Emong wa batswadi a ke a re nkele thapelo hie pele. Hore ho tie ho tsejwe ho tswelela pele ka mosebetsi bomme le

^ bontate.

P Thapeli: Morena- modimo mantsiboeng a kajeno lena re phuthehilemona, re lahlile menate, re lahlile boikarabelo ba metse ya rona. Eba le rona nakong ya hona jwale. Eba kelellong tsa rona, a ho rene wena, ebe wena o re fang dikelello tsa bohlokwa tsa bophelo, ho tseba ho latella thuto ya hao ya bokriste. Re ho kopa jwalo ka Jesu Kriste morenawa rona, ea ileng a shwa mine are siela bophelo bo sa feleng. Amen.

Batheetsi: Amen.

P Thapeli: Bomme le bontate, ka bokhutshwanyane ha nkaba ka tlohake tsebile hore re tla ba le sekheo sa hore re hloke motho ya tla re bulelang ka thapelo hong nkabe ke nkile beibele ka tla ke e tshwere. Ka tla bua ka beibele. Re tla hopola nakong eo Kriste aneng a tsoha bafung a ena le baapostole ba hae. A ba fumana ba le mose lewatleng, ba tjheile ditlhapi. Me ha a ba fumana a re ho bona ba lahlele matlowa a bone hare lewatle. Mo ba ileng ba tshwasa ditlhapi, ke moo ba ileng ba qala ho elelloa, ke moo morena a ileng a qala ho ipontsha ho baapostolo ba hae. A ipontsha ho bone ka tsela ena. Ya ho bafa se ba neng base hloka ho se ja. Mme ka moraho ha moo, baapostola ba ile ba batla ho tseba na ho tla ba jwang ho eo. Hore na ho tla ba jwang ho eo ba ne ba lekantsha ho Judas Iskariote. Judas Iskariote ene ele e mong ya ileng a lahla boikarabelo ba hae ba Bokriste. Ba ile ba batla ho tseba hore na ho tla etsehalang kahlolong ya bona. Empa Kriste o ile

( a ba araba ka tsela ena. Hore hoo ha ho lo ame ka letho,Iona nkang sefapano, le ntatele. 0 ne a h.lalosetsa Johanneseo e neng ele moratiwa wa hae e moholo.i'Matsatsing a kajeno lena re ntse re bona bophelo boo ba kgale-kgale ba Bokriste bo neng bo etsahala. Ntse re bona Bojudas ba hlaha dinakong tsa hona jwale. Ha re ya re sheba batho ba rutehileng, ba ho ntshitsweng ditjhelete, bao ho tshepahalang hore ba ka etelella sechaba. Re fumana hore ke bone ba dihetseng sechaba. Ha ho thwe opasitse sekolong, o nale setifikeite, re tlameha ho tshepa, ho

P Hlubi

Batheetsi:

P Hlubi:

Batheetsi:

P Hlubi

ba le tshepo ho wena hore o motho ya hlwahlwa, o motho ya beilweng tulong eo. Jwale le kajeno lena, re bona boima bo apeswang ba ...(kgaogo e khutswane taping)

Ba bang ba teng ba sentseng ba e patetse. Ba bang ba teng. E tlare ha re ile ho patela mane wa fumana hore o e kentse ka nqhena. Ha ba bolelwa hore tlisa R5.00 ebe a setse a e hula, are ke ena, a e patala. Jwalo ntho tse jwalo ka tsena ke batla hore re di shebisane ke hore ka morao ke bolele tsena tse re seng re di buisane mo matsatsing ana a fedileng.

Sontaga sa pele, re dumallane ka hore rente re ya e patala, ho re sa e pataleng ke R5.90 ena e ekeditsweng. Naa re ntse re le hona mo kaofela ha rona?

Ee Ee E e .

Ntho ya bobedi re dumelane ka hore dibonta ha re sa di batla. Naa ntse re te hona moo ka-ofela?

Ee£'

Ntho ya boraro - ho ile ha hlaha potso ya hore nna tjhelete ya dibotlestore le tjhelete ya ntho tse ding tse bang di kana tsa tswela sechaba molemo, na ekae, e sebedisiwa jwang?

Ya bone ke mo ho ileng ha dumellwana ka h.ore ho seka ha sebedisiwa dishopo tsa bona, digarage tsa bone. E kaba e ntse e etshala ka mokhwa oo eneng e planilwe ka teng.

3

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Batheetsi: Ha e etsahale. Ha e etsahale. Ha e etsahale ha eba babua nnete. Ha e etsahale. Ha e ... (kgaogo) ka garagengo (ho duma).

P Hlubi: Ke hona ha ke cho ke re jwale ha le ka tsamaisa dintho ka mokgwa ona, ebe ele hone ha re dumellane ka ntho ele ngwe, ebe ele hore ho nale e mong a e tsaya a e isa kwana le kwana, ka nnete ha re kake ra e wina le kgale. Ke cho hore e keke ya loka lekgale. Batho bana ba tla fumana la matla a hore ba khone le ho le hatella, ebe ba le hatella fatshe, ebe le hore le shwelletse sa futhi ha ho sa na mokgwa oo le tla phahamisa dihloo ka ona.

Ha e fela le ka nna dumellana ka hore, eba o eme holimo ha terata, ha o fumana hole hobe ka mane, ebe o khutlele morao. Ha ho se hobe ka nqena ebe o ya pele. Ha se ka mokgwa oo re ka sebetsang ka hona moo. Motho ka mang le mang, jwale ka ha re dumellane hore ha re hloke komiti, emong le emong a ikemele ka manto a hae a mabedi, emong le emong a tshepe hore seo re dumellaneng ka sona o tla

/ se etsa yena ka boyena. A seka a lebella hore nna kele ka pele tjena, ke tla ba ke ntse ke le'kapele, kapa emong ya dutseng pele, o tla bo a ntse a le teng ka nako ena kaofela.

Jwalo ke sa (khutso) ke tla leka ho khutsufatsa ditabanyana haholo. Re tla ke re furaane mantsoenyana a se makae ho babui, wa ba bang ba neng ba le teng beke e fedileng mme ene o tswa Azapo. Ke Ntate Hlumoka. Ke a kholwa ba neng ba le teng ba ile ba mmona beke e fedileng.

0 Hlumoka: Eh Ke le dumedisa kaofela sechaba sa rona. Eh ha re eme

,► 4

tjena e le hore re re re batho ba ipeileng hore re bathoba ba reng re (khutso-meduno e meng). Ha re eme so ele hore reipeile hore re dileader re tsa Iona. Ha hojwalo, re tlile hotlo sebedisana hammoho ka

ntho eo eleng hore ere tshwenya kaofela mona mo Vaal TriancHa re a tloha Sebokeng ho tlo bolella batho ba Sharpeville hore ba etseng.

Re tlile mo ele hore ntho ena e re affekta kaofela ha rona mona Vaal Triangle. Jwaanong ke tla leka ho eketsa mantsoe a builweng ke modulasetulo mona hore diqeto tse re di entseng beke e fetileng e kare ha di tsamaye ka tsela e tshwanetseng. Eh, re ile ra hlalosa hantle hore, ha se hore ha tse re re re ntho tse itseng di sekasa sebediswa, re bolela hore re hloya batho bano, ho lwaniwe, ho etsiwe jwang. Re etsetsa hore ha rere ho seka ha sebedi dishopo tsa bona, ke tsela eo re e sebedisang hore batho bano ba tlohe mono. Ba "resigne", hobane ha re sa di batla dibonta. So ke ne ke kopa hore ntho ena e seka ya nka maikutlo a rona or re nahane hore rea ba lwantsha batho ba, ha re ba lwantshe - re batla hore net ba tlohe dibonteng mono, hobane dibonta ha re sa di batla. Ka hore ha hona molemo o dibonta di re tliseditseng ona.

Taba ya bobedi : Ha se hore ha re re dibonta ha re di batle, re batla hore rona re ye mono re ile ho emela batho. Ha hona ntho ejwalo. Ke hore re a tseba hore monyetla o kareng ona o entswe ka boomo. Ke "trap" e entswengke makg --- ke batho ba re tshwereng. Ele hore makgowaao eleng a tshwereng mmuso hore ba seka ba re hatella direct ba sebedise batho ba bo rona e be bona ba re

hatellang. So ke ne ke kopa net hore re sebedisane ka

tsela e re dumellanang ka yone mona. Ha re sa sebedise tsela e tshwanetseng, ho tla hlaha dikhatatso tse ngata and re tla fumana ele hore mohlang letsatsi leo le fihla, la rente eo re dumallaneng ka yona hore nyollo eo e kenyiwang ha ena ho patalwa, batho ba ba ngata ba tla bona e le hore ka ntho tse re di experiensang before tsatsi leo ho ha nkwa ekare re batho ba senang boikarabelo. Ja, hore re se ka ra lefa rente ena, ke boikarabelo bo re bo bontshang, hore re sechaba se batlang ho tswelapele. Hore re tswelepele ho tshwanetse hore re be le tjhelete. Ha rena ho dumela hore re amohiwe tjbelete ke makhowa a romelang batho bao eleng dibonta. So, ke ne ke kopa fela hore re sebedisaneng hammoho re kgone ho tsamaisa dintho ka tshwanelo. Ke a leboha.

Re a leboha ntate. Ke ne ke batla ho hlaha-hlahisa nthonyana e ngwe hape hodimo ha mantsoe a qetang ho a bua. Ha are maikemisetso a rona ha se hore le rona re habile re tie ho ema kapele, re be dibonta.Taba ya hore, o tie o bitse ntho e, kere sebonta, re nale kutlwisiso e phethahetseng ya hore na hobaheng ha tla qetella mmuso o ile wa qetella o entseng ntho e kareng sebonta. Re nale qeto hape e phethahetseng ya gore na sebonta se loketse ho sebetsa ho tloha kae; ho fihlela kae. Ha a na ho tlola mono a boleletsweng teng; Ha ana ho ya ka tlase ho moo ho a tshwanetseng ho qala teng.0 tla tlameha a etse seo a se boleletsweng hore a se etse. Ebile le seo a bolellwang gore a se etse a"ntse a bolellwa ke ena goromente hore etsa ntho e itseng. Ke hore ka mantswe mangwe batha ba na ba tshwanetse go romiwa e le

7

dintjha ho rona. Fela bona ba ikhethile hore e tla ba baetapele ba rona, ba tla re sireletsa, mme hoo ha bona ha ho phethahale. Jwale ha ke tsebe hore na ha ebe sechaba ke hore ka bosona ha ele mona ho na le khohlang emong oiketsetsa kwana emong oiketsetsa kwana na, ntho ere dumellaneng ka yona e sa phethahale na ebe ele hore se ikutlwa jwang.Na ha le bona re ka tswelapele ka mokgwa o re ntseng re sebetsa ka ona. (Modumo lentsoe la raonna le sa tsibiweng ebile le so utlwahaleng hantle)

0 tla ntshwarela ntate. Che, ke sa hanane le ntho yeo o e buang, fela ke ne ke batla mokgwa o o re tla o etsang ele hore hona ho leka ho thibela tsona ntho tse tsa mofuta ona. Emong a ye kwa, emong a ye kwana, emong a ye kwana.Hobane Le ntho ena ya hore re qetelle re hloyane ke ntho e entsweng ke bona ka boomo. Rona ho teng, ha re e hlokomele. Hore ba qetelle ba itse wena o mang mang wena o mang mang, wena o wela kae, wena o wela kae. Ba ne ba etsetsa hona hore be ho hloyanwe. Nna kere ha reye kwana, wena ha o dumele, nna ke re a re ye kwana ebe wena o re nna kere ha re ye kwa, ebe wena o tlang. Ha o sa tla ya mo re dumellaneng hore re ye teng. Ere ke fe FATHER, sebaka a re fe mantsoe a le mabedi, a be mararo.

Lentsoe la mosadile sa tsebiweng: Ntate ke ya kopoa hie •

P Hlubi: Ke ha ho fa sebaka mme e re ha nnyane pela (go gohlola le khutsonyana)

Lentsoe la mosadi leso tstiweng: Tabeng ya bana re buile hantle beke e fetileng. Jwale

nna ke ile ka kopa hore bana baka seka lwanang. Mmuso ha o lwane le molao ha o lwane. Tlohelang dibese le mamele molao wa beke e e fetileng ho itswe hare batlwa rente mane ha re na yona-tjhelete jwale bana bona ba iketsetsa ntho e ba e bonang.Ya bobedi re lofile mosebetsing ke kgalemela bana ke re- bana baka, seka thubang dibese - ha di na molato. Molatoo ho rona bomme le bontate (modumo).

(Lentsoe le sa tsebiweng le sa utlwaleng hantle)

Moruti Moselane: Dumelang;

Batheetsi: Dumela: ahe

Moselane-' Sapele ke batla ho hlalosa ka banna ba babedi bana. Haba hlahe SABC - they are not from the South African Broadcasting Corporation. Ke (khutsonyana) ba hlaha lefapheng la dikereke

^ - South African Council of Churches - re a tseba horekereke e erne lefapheng la ba ba hlokang, kereke e ernelefapheng la ba ba ketekwang, ba ba gatakelwang fatshe,

i'kereke e tlisa molaela wa khotso le toka. Kereke e erne lefapheng la toka jwale mokqatlo wa South African Council of Churches o emetseng dikereke ka kakaretso lefatshe le la Afrika Borwa, o batla ho etsa "film" ka se etsahalang.0 batla le ho tsebisa le mafatshe a ka ntle hore na ho etshalang mo motseng ona; ho etsahalang Afrika ka kakaretso;Ho etsahalang ka lefatshe.(ka sekgowa)

9

I was just explaining that; Actually you are from South African Council of Churches. And the Church itself is on the side of the oppressed and on the side of "marginalised" on the side of the poor. And unless the church takes sides, with the poor - then it's not the church in its true perspective, (o tsoella pele ka sesotho) Jaanong kereke jaaka e ntse jaana, e batla go itsise go ka gasa molaetsa ona wa kgatelelo e e etsahalang mona le mo motseng ona.

En (khutsonyana) taba enngwe gape e ke batlang pele ga ke kena go ya bobedi le a utlwisisa hore ke ka lebaka- lang he ba le teng fa?

Batheetsi: Ee, Ee ......

Mor-Moselane: Ahe ......jwanong taba e nngwe ya bobedi e ke batlangho ka e tlhahisa ke mabapi le dikolo, bana ba dikolo. Joanong taba e wena motsadi, jaaka re ntse jaana batsadi, e re tshwanetseng re e tsebe ke hore ho na le dintho tse di arohanyang sechaba - hona le dintho tse di

^ sa tliseng bonngwe feela, gona le dintho tse di sautlwaleheng hantle - jwanong mabapi le tsa sekolo, n n a h a ke tsene tsa sekolo ha ke ngwana wa sekolo.Me fela ke ya tshepa hore bana ba sekolo se ba se etsang ke sa toka, me fela ha e le sa toka, ha ke be go etsiwe toka fela. Toka mabapi le seo ke hae se amana le bophelo kaofela. Phohamiso ya rente e amana le bophela ka kakaretso; e amana le sekolo; e emana le sea o tla seo o tla se jang. Jwale ka hore re utlwile beke e fetileng hore haholo ha re sheba lefapheng la batho ba boholo bao ba amohelang pension

etsiwang eba policy ... mme re tshwanetse go itse difference moo. Jaanong ke batla hee re utlwane ka taba eo. I think bana ba dikole neelang batsadi chance (modumo). Are faneng ka chance ho batsadi re bone gore na a go na le gone ho ka isa lekoa Town Council to Court. We must test that.

11

(lentsoe la monna le) sa tsebiweng: That's right.

^ ior Moselane: Ke ya kqoloa re utlwisitse.

Batheetsi: (Modumo o sa utlwahaleng hantle.

Mkwanazi: Hobane re mo file chelete e se e le matsohong a hae ebile ha e sa le matsohong a hae e se e le bankeng, e setse e mo tswalla.

Batheetsi: (Go duma)

Mkwanazi: Mme wena o tshwere pampiri ha wa tshwara chelete, ha a sa e batla. Ha a o batle le wena - o nkile chelete ea hao yaba meeting ono mohla re tshwanetse re be le ono:(ho shapiwa matsoho; tape ha e utlwa - hale hantle)

Eaba re lebeletse ho tlo latiwa hape re yo kopana Stewards Sc Lloyds ha fihlela hona jwale ha re soka re kopana - ke lemo tse pedi jwale. Jwale kea kgutla hape ke tla tseleng ena ea rona ea matlo. Bana beso re hodile hare makoala hare bana. Ba bang ba mpona ba ......(go sapiwa matsogo), ntle le (go kena lentsoe) tse ba tshweseng.

12

Let us not involve our children because this is a minor case (lentswe la mouma - "Ja"). Ho nale di ......

(faint) There is no one in the Republic ya patalang rente e kana ka eena.

Batheetsi: (ba sapa matsogo) Bua!

Mkwanazi: You can ask hundreds of them (Go sapiwo motsogo - medumo e meng e sa ultwohaleng). You can go to Soweto, they pay R55,00, you can go to Cape, Port Elizabeth, e bitswang

) jaanong eo, (batheetsi ba a tshega) - re tshaba ho wa,re wele re ka wa hape jwang. Re kampa ra tsoha ra tsamaea (batheetsi: "Ja, Ja", male voice - "Ha o swa o swe").Ha o shwa o shwe you won't die twice. Monna wa Monyesemane are "Those who felt like cowards, they die twice, I mean many times before their death." Se kang la shwa hangata pele le eshwa. Ke nnete banna bana ha re ba needy this is a minor fight, ha se nix nthoena man, ke ntho e batsadi ba ka e dirang.

| They are boys, they are young boys ke ding ntho tse mm... Nthwa pele re buile mona beke e fetileng ra re hare ba utlwise botlhoko hannyane, re se ka ra reka ntho

c >tsa bona ke bo rra mabenkele ...Let the children be educated at schools. They can join us within the struggle but not now. The time is not yet right, to accompany us. Thank you gentlemen.(go sapiwa matsogo le medumo)

Lentse la monnale sa tsibiwing. Ha ba fihla mona ba Sheba bo ntate ba na ba dutseng

mona, ba matha ba ea mane ba yo bitsa maponesa hore ba

13

tie hore mamela.(go sapiwa matsogo)(tape ha e utlwahale hantle)

Batheetsi: Awethu!

Mor Moselane: Joanong ke a kgoloa re tshwanetse re (go sapiwa matsogo; medumo) ... ke a kgoloa hore (khutsonyana) hobane ha a sa batle hore araba re e hlahise dipampireng, jaanong nt°a e teng ea mabapi le rent increase (lentsoe la monna

I - ja). Ho na le loophoe in the law, ba kana ba isiwa court.Jaanong re tshwanetse re bue ka taba tse pedi tse. Petition probably re nke lawyer ho ka etsa (khutso) court interdict.

Lentsoe laMonna U buile sentle he, o na bua ntho e jwalo.

Motho e mong: Hona jwanong lodgers permit le permit di patalwa ke batho

ba hostele empa le rona re ya epatala, masepala ha a fihla ka senotlolo sa hae, o kwala ntlo ya hae, wena o patetse lodgers permit, u lo rwabala ka ntle le ntate ona wa hao ya sa patalang rente. So, le rona ea re ama hobane re no le dipomete tsa rona le di lodgers permit tsa rona.Ke kopa tshwarelo.(go sapiwa matsogo)

Moruti Moselane: A re utlwaneng. Mme fela ha ke tsebe molao hantle. Mme

fela lawyer ere bao ba nang le matlo can insist. There is a probability ya hore ba ka etsa court interdict. Ga se gore bao eleng di permit holders ba ya lahlwa. E tla

be e akaretsa Lekoa kaofela - motho mongwe le mongwe ye motsho ya dulang moo e tla be ele thuso ho eena, ha re fenya.

Batheetsi: Amandla! (medumo: go sapiwa matsogo)

Lentsoela monna le

sa tsebiweng: Maikutlo a rona ke hore ha re patale rente haeba ba sa kgone utlwana re tla ipontsha re kgona go lwana.(go sapiwa matsogo)

Mor-Moselane: Are utlwaneng - (medumo ya batheetsi) - se ke ra sebetsa dintho emotionally (batheetsi - ja). Seke la nka dintho feela hobane le batla ho tsejwa. A re nkeng dintho re tseba hore re nale yeo re tla itshwarelang ka yona. A re tshweleleng pele (Batheetsi ba a duma mme ha ho utlwahale hantle)

Jppkgema: Jwale ngwana eno ha ntatao a tswa mosebetsing o fihla a jwetsoa ntatao mona hore o mo entse eng motshegare. Na mpimpi ^ha e yo lapeng le. Ha

(batheetsi - eteng).

Mokgema: Ke gore ntho e nngwe. Ka letsatsi leo la di 3rd. Dikhukhuni tse tla khukhanang ba ile ba khukhuna ba kena "cable".Ba bangwe ba robala fabriking ho sa tsejwe hore ba robala jwang e le hore ba bang bare ba Ha ba khutlela mesebetsing- ba bangwe ba robetse mosebetseng.

15

Jwalo ka letsatsi lena ke gore dikhukhuni tsena di tla kalama bese tsena. Kampo taxi tsena. Ho eleng taxi kampo ho eleng bus dia thijwa hore ka kwano ha di kene, hobane e tla re ha puo yena eqetilwe ho ho buiwa le ya sehlohong e behona di tla kenang di kuke batho ba yang mesebetsing.(go sapiwe matsogo medumo e meng)

Mor- Moselane: Ga ke itse, ea dumela gore there is an attractivecase e re tshwanetseng hore probably re bone hore e tsamaya jwong.

(medumo ya batheetsi)

Lentsoe la monna

le sa tsebiweng: Jaanong a re buisane ka hore na re thibela court interdict before the first hore court e emise, e thibele banna ba - Mmasepala hore dirente dise se nyolohe, re tshwanetse re tie qetellong eo re botse ntate Moselane hore na hoo tla etsahala na? (medumo) So batho ba baetsho ha re bue dikgang tsa rona, re tshwanetse ho etsa qeto

| hobane letsatsi le tla dikela hona jwale. Re tsebe hotsamaya because he re bua hona jwale re sa. batle ho hlahisa taba ya chelete, re tloo baleya - re bue - re bue - we must be practical. We have to be practical. Agente e keke ya sebetsa with no money. So that a re bueng hore batho bana ba modimo ba be ten ba tlo emiswa mosebetsi ona wa rona. So Mr Moselane, go on from that point.

Mor Moselane: A ke re ke arabele moo re tswelle pele-. Taba ena.

Kea tshepa beke e fetileng yane kampo tse pedi tse fetileng ho ne ho nale case ko Ratanda. Xe nnete hore re tshwanetse hore re tshepahale. Le seke la re ho lokile, morago ebe lo jeka le re komti eo e tla di bona, nna rente ha ke sa thole ke patela e nyolotsweng" o bo nyamela. Wa bona. Hobane o tla bo o tsenya rona molatong. Ga re na yone tshelete, re qadile ka hore ha re na yona. Ha re na yone (chelete). Jaanong he ...mine fela (lentswe lesa utlwagoleng gantle)

ha ke a utlwa ntate ... wa bona taba ke ...

(Medumo e meng)

elane: Xe enngwe ya taba e re tla feletsang ka yona horere tlo e tsamaise ka mokgwa oo jwang. Sapele a re ke rere (Oagotlhola), el, a re re taba e re tshwanetseng re e bone ke hore kana le tsone difeme ja ka ho sena tshwelelopele le kqwebo ya bone, project tse dingwe ba di shelfa. A ke etse sekao fela ... Massey Fergeson e rekisa ditrekter, o lema Africa ka kakaretso, mme hobane ho na le ... (Medumo ya batheetsi) mme ho na le leuba - komello, ba "cut" diproject tsa bona. Mme batho ba bang ba afectiwa mabapi le mosebetsi, gobane ba "cut" di projecte. We Iona jwaanong ke nngwe

yo ntho tse re nna tsa hlahiswa hobane nyoloso ya dirente ske ka hobane ho na le diprojecte tse di shelviwang.So there is a strong case ya ho ka bontsha hore le difirm tse dingwe, re ya tseba hore M Fergusson o na le ditrekere o a lema mme o khatha diprojecte tsa teng hobane komello e sa letielle. ke e nngwe ya dipoints tseo re ka nna ra di hlahisa hare re consulta. (Go tsena e mong wa batheetsi mme ha a ultwale hantle) Wa utlwa, ke tseo he, mabaka a mangata. I think ena e tsweletse; Re ka nna ra tsena taba ya bobedi ha e le hore ha hona se senngwe hape.

17

Scotch

Mkwanazi: Ho nale ntho tse ding tse bitswang luxury. Ke a kqoloa hore rona ba tlohang top le a tseba re ne re phela ka hore re nke candle kampa parafini. Empa ha dilemo di ntse di tsamaya ha fetoha. Jwale ho tla tloha re sentse re le mona, ha tloswa dibucket ha kenywa sewerage. Ha hoswa sewerage ha kengwa motlakase. Empa ha tlala eleteng moetapele wa hao ya hlwahlwa hare e tlose lebakete, a tlose candle empa o bolawa ke tlala. Wa bona ke eng ha ntate moruti a re ho shelfiwa diprojecte. Shelving projects ho bolela hore mabaka ha o batla ho be ya lejwe la ntata moholo wa hao empa ngwana yo mongwe a tshwanetse ho ntsha bana ba bararo sekolong ba so qeteng, jwalo o tshwanetse ho baya lejwe la ntata' moholo wa hao o tshwanetse hore o khethe nthong tse pedi tse. Thoteng ...Na le ya tseba ke chelete mang eo?

Batheetsi: Aowa!

Mkwanazi: Hore na ke kelello ya boetapele ba rona bao Na, ha re tsekelle ho romela bana ba rona diuniversity, ha ba ne ntse ba ya di high school.

Ha re tsekelle hore le wena o be le dieta tse brown,project ke hore - diketsahalo tse o ntse o batla ho di etsa ha o ne o batla ho hodisa ntlo ya hao, o fumana hore ngwana wa hao o qeta next year sekolong. Ha eba o tla hodisa ntlo ya hao selemo se na o tshwanetse hore a tswe sekolong ... Ha o emele selemo se tlang ke eng? Bone ha ba batle ho emela dintho tseo.

¥

Ha hona ntho e ba qosang hore ba kenye electricity hohle mona. Ha hona ntho e ba etsang hore ba tsenye skontere thoteng, ha hona ntho e ba qosang hore ba tsenye ditransforma thoteng pele re phela hantle. Batho ba ritrenjwa mosebetsing (retrenchment). Kea kgoloa go nale zone engwe Phelindaba mo makanselara ... I mean komiti ya teng e resigneng. Jwale

re tsebe mabaka a bona. A pele ba tshepisitse hore pele moruo wa naga o nyoloha, rente ha ena ho nyoloha.

Sa bobedi ke hore jwale ba maketse hore na ho etsehalang ha ba sa yeriswe pele a rente e nyoloha. Ya boraro na, jwale

^ ha eba e nyoloha tjena ba emele ena na?Re ka mpa ra mo sia ale mong. Ha le ba sie ba le bang ke eng Iona makomiti membara a ma Kansellara.

Batheetsi: Ja! Ja! (go sapiwa matsogo)

Lentswe lamonna le sa tsebiweng: Ntate ha ba tswe !

P. Hlubi: Ake ontshwarele hanyane ntate ... ntshwarele hanyane.^ Lentswe la monna le satsebiweng: Ntate ke ne ke botsa

lore ha e le mona dikansellora di le (Kgaogo) mme re yatseba .... (Ha o utlwale hantle)

O

Batheetsi- Wena a a ipuela ... (ha ho utlwale hantle)

Mor-Moselane: Tshwarelo - A re utlwaneng. Ha re sa utlwana jwale.Ha le duma he lo tsebe hore ntate o hole ho rona ... ha wena o utlwile ka speed ... Rona ha re utlwi (lentswe le sa utlwahaleng)

Ha a bapala o tlatseba ha hola e tla ba kelelong ya hae o tla re wa bona ... example ke hore ngwanaka o fumana chelete e itseng for carry jaanong hobane a protesta mo honna ka chelete e ke mo fang yone o jwetsa monnawe / nnaka are "Nna fa o kena sekolo, o lekana le nna ke tla

*

ho fa chelete e kana" Wa bona, o sentse a godisa ona go ka mo jwetsa ha ntsa a hola ka hlaloganyo ya hore a batle chelete e hodimo ho yena. Wa bona taba ke yena. I think ntate re tswelle ka taba e nngwe (medumo ya batheetsi).(kgaogo taping)

(mantswe a sa utlwaleng hontle)

*. 19

Mor Moselane: Le tsebe sa pele re dumalatsana ho ka etsa Court Interdict Ha kere now if it happens that Court Interdict ya faila then petition

tla kheria weight. Wa bona? And then ha petition ekheria weight ke hore re mo otla both sides, all sides. Wa bona. Le hone kea kgoloa hore this is very authentic. 0 itse jwalo so lets test what he says.0 cholo mo bekeng eno mo pampering hore ha tla fumana petition lehona ha se petition fela e tla tsamaya le lengoalo. So probably a mandate.Wa bona. I think rea utlwana. Ja, so let's get mo tabeng ya petition o tla tlhalosa.(medumo e meng)

Aentswe la monna le sa

tsebiweng. Ke ho bolelela hore ena ya pele se re na le karabo ya yona. i'

Mor-Moselane: Ha re utlwaneng. Court Interdict ke raya hore. Ha molao o dumelatsana hantle ere. U se ka wa nyolosa rente ho tloha ka di 1st tsa September ho fihlela u tla o kena lekgotleng /re kena yeoeng. Wa bona. So ke Court Interdict. Ke hore re re go nne le molao o ha Hatsong ka gore go tloga ka di 1st ke gore.lawyer e ngola

lengolo feela ere Iona Town Council re lo isa Court, mme re batla ho lo stopa hore ka di 1st tsa September rente le se ke la e nyolosa. Ho fihlela re kena Court. Mm. That is Court Interdict. Its Court Interdict before proceedings.(Ditshego go sa piwa matsogo le me dumo e meng)

Jaanong he taba enngwe? Jaancng re reng ka petition le reng - re etse petition?

Batheetsi: Ha e etswe!

.or-Moselane : That is clear,

Scotch

Mkwanazi: Le a bona ntho ena e bitswang petition ma Afrika a matle ke bona ha e no ba bonolo hore re e etse ka tsela eno re kopaneng ka eona mona, ke hore ka kello ea ka, le tla ntshwaya phoso rea thusana mona, nna ka mokgwa o ke o bonang ele bonolo ka teng, re nale mablock a six Sharpville, re a utlwana, ha ho jwalo?

Batheetsi: Eeee

i'Mkwanazi: Ene ho tshwanetse e be rona mona re ikhethele ntho tse

bitswang di sub-committees tse, block bo bong, le bo bong- Putswastena, Phelandaba, jwalo jwalo - ebe le batho ba eona ba tla tsamaisang petition. It is the only easiest way ka nako e khutshwane ho ka tsamaisa ntho eno. Ho tjena u tla fumana hore batho ba teng mona ke ba block ele ngwe bongata - ba bang ha bayo. A kere lea fumana. (Kgaogo)

/ / 21

Lentsoe le sa

tsebiweng: Se ke la re senyetsa nako mona ...

Batheetsi: (se ba se buwang ha se utlwale hantle)

Mor-Moselane: Kea kgolwa rea tswelela ... (kgaogo)

Lentsoe la monnale sa tsebiweng: Ha a qeta ho nyala. Jwale lokisang hore re qete

hore ntho tse jwalo difele - ke pheto.I

Mor Moselane: A re re taba ena ke ya bohlokwa e o e hlahisitseng ... (kgaogo)

Botha ...Until le be le ya to the Court of Law. Ke a dumela heartily ho yona. Maar ha ntse ke bona - we should have an alternative - kea dumela - but proceed with it. You have our support. We are going to proceed with it.(Modumo esa utlwaleng) ... Jwale taba ke hore number one ke yone eo kea dumela. Jwale taba ke hore ho nale ntho entse re e kwekwetla. Ha re qeta ho isa petition ho motadiana- are re re mmolelele hore ka letsatsi le itseng bese tsa hao di seke tsa kena - and then? What should happen- ha di kena?(go sapiwa matsogo, medumo e meng)

P Hlubi: Botha o etsa yona ntho eo a ntseng a etsa.

•l* 22

Mor Moselane: A re reng - batho ba Mod ... (kgaogo)

ORDER!! We can't just ... mongwe le mongwe a batle ho hlahisa ... le nna nka hlahisa anything ... (kgaogo) go na le ...

Botha: Why can we not spend one hour for a useful thing ...(go sapiwa matogo)

Mor-Moselane: ... Ke tla kopa batho ba itseng ho ka tla etella pele ^ ... Ba ba etelellang pele a ... A go nale bangwe ba ba

etsebang R

Batheetsi: Eee!

Kaofela: Nkosi Sikelela i Afrika.Morena boloka sechaba sa leso.

Audience: Amandla! Awethu! Amandla! Awethu! Africa! Izwe lethu!

o

i

Collection Number: AK2117 DELMAS TREASON TRIAL 1985 - 1989 PUBLISHER: Publisher:-Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand Location:-Johannesburg ©2012

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