hyderabad legislative assembly debates official report
TRANSCRIPT
VoLII No. 4
Tuesday 15th September, 1953
HYDERABAD LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
DEBATES Official Report
PART II-PROCEEDINGS OTHER THAN
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
CONTENTS
Point of Information re: Heayy Qmtdmg of Legjislafita Assembly and Sectin 144. •, <, ,* * •
Point of Order re: Threatening language t*gp$ i^f & m$*S&# of the Legislative Assembly ^ v ^^<p
Point of Order regarding sttpj^ of proceedings of tfee Legfektate ** oiWk
TA&SB
W
Consademiaon of the $&&<$$'j£ fite intbfiD,aBtod$**s
$* A. ML No, 3 X P X *>f lf«&
THE HYDERABAD LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 15tk September, 1953
The House met at Two of the Clock
[ME. SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR]
Questions and Answers
(SeeParti)
Point of Information: Re : Heavy guarding of Legislative Assembly and Section 144
Shri V. D. Deshpande (Ippaguda): May I know from yon, Sir, or the Minister concerned why is that the House is being heavily guarded and why section 144 has been enforced. May I also inform through you, Sir, that at least this side of the House does not require all this guarding. May I request the Minister for section 144, Lathi-Charge and Firing hon* the Home Minister ? I believe that the Government is decreasing the honour and prestige of the House by enforcing section 144 every time the Assembly meets.
Shri R. Ramakrishna Rao: I am not aware whether the Home Minister has issued any such order. The Home Minister is not here to reply, but I am sure that the Ctovernment has not taken any such steps. Whether such step has been taken either by the Magistrate or by the Police, I have no information. Announcement by Speaker re : the nominations to the Senate of Osmania University and Board of Secondary
Education Mr. Speaker: Now we shall take up the next item on the
agenda* Three nomination papers were received from Shri Jaganathrao Chanderki, Bhikaji Jadhav and Shri Ankushsao Ghare for the election of a member to the Senate of Osmania University. No. candidate has withdrawn the nomination and therefore elections will be held tomorrow at 5 p.nu after the recess. ^
Now there is another list of nominations to the Boaid erf Secondary Education. These are i&e nine nominatkiii
IS* R*U—I
136 15th Sept., 1953* Point of order re : threatening^ language used by a Member
of the Assembly
Shri M. B. Gautam, Shri Veerendra Patil, Shrimati Sangam Laxmi Bai, Shri Mohammed Ali, Shri Madhavrao Nirelikar, Shri Sripatrao Newasekar, Shri M. S. Rajalingam, Shri K. R. Veeraswamy and Shri A. Guruva Reddy. If any of them want to withdraw their nominations, they can do so by tomorrow noon*
Point of order re : the threatening language used by a Member of the Assembly
Smt. S. Laxmi Bai: Point of order Sir, ^n& snrre % ^RT an«A«i«y ^ r «fr. €lr. afar. *&& <I+KN sft % *ft sfa % w£t 3?Y *m ^
fsr^sr a ^ (Attend) f w arte s e^ **T3ffa> tf srsTsr qfgmrf> mx . fsrsf m *ft srfe PRT *n* &f^r 3>ff «nc *fir 431 fa$t ^ r ^t ^ t fsrcr cnqr ^r
*w£t ^ sncf ^ f t *ff km \ 1STF^S *pft % arfte *£*& f % fsw *n§
Mr- Speaker: No such remarks are necessary and this is not a point of order, The hon. Member has made a request to her brethren*
Shri G. Hanumanth Rao; May I know whether the hon. Member fainted ?
Point of Order re : Supply of the printed copies of the Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly and translation
of Bills
Shri V. B. Deskpande: I had sent a request to you^ Sir, through the Secretary, Legislative Assembly, that the printed copies of the proceedings of the House are not made available to the Members for months together. If they cannot be supplied in time, I request. Sir, that alternative arrangements may be mada to see that the proceedings are made av&ilable in good time. May I know if any steps are being taken.in this dlirao-
' tioa f
Paint of Order re : Supply of the 15th Sept., 1953 ISt Printed Copies of the Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly and Translation of Bills.
Secondly certain bills have now come before the House,. * Mr. Speaker : Proceedings of what date ?
Shri V.D. Deshpande:Of the last session and the third session. Secondly, the Abkari Bill is being taken up here for the first reading. May I know whether the translations in the languages are made available to the Members ?
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' . Sfert* F. D. Deshpande : £a general there w^s a deefciem fiiat the Bills would be translated into the regkma! Jangoages*
188 15th Sept., 1953. Point of Order re: Supply of the . Printed Copies of the Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly and
Translation of Bills.
#/&n F. D. Deshpande : I am referring to Rule 1G7.
Mr. Speaker : Rule 107 says : " after such Bill has been published, the Bill and the Statement of Objects and Reasons shall be translated into such recognised languages as the Speaker shall deem necessary • • • "
jSfen F. D* Deshpande : Mx* Speaker : Sir, I want to know whether any statement has been laid on the table of the House regarding tne statistics in respect of cholera epidemic ?
Mr. Speaker : Let us wait till 5 O5 Clock.
(Pause)
Mr. Speaker : Have the Members received translation of the Tenancy Bill as reported by the Select Committee in all the languages ?
Shri V. D. Deshpande : We have already informed the Secretary that we require the translations of this Bill in all the languages
Mr. Speaker I think they have been translated into all languages. I want to know whether they have been received by all the Members*
{Pause)
$hri V. D. Deshpande : We wanted not onTy translations of the revised Bill, but also of the report of the Select Committee. As per the provisions of our Rules, those who require translations of the whole report of * the Select Committee can get it.
• Point of Order re; Supply of the 15th Sept., I95S 186 Printed Copies of the Proceedings
. of the Legislative Assembly and Translation of Bills.
Mr. Speaker ; Which is the Rule ?
Shri V. D. Deshpande : Rule 134 (b) proviso (ii) says :
"unless copies of the said report and the Bill in the language of the Member have been despatched two clear days before the said date to any Member who has previously informed the Secretary of his wish to have such copies *\
Mr. Speaker ; Who ^previously informed the Secretary ?
Shri V. D. Deshpande : On behalf of the P. D. F . Members, I informed the Secretary that our Members would be requiring the translations of the report and the Bill in Urdu, Marathi and Telugu. On a previous occasion I had given the Secretary a list of the Members and the languages in which they would require the translations and I requested that this list might be referred and translations supplied as per tha t list,
Mr. Speaker „; Telugu translation will be supplied within two or three days*
Shri V. D. Deshpande ; But what about Marathi and Urdu ? We want them also.
Mr. Speaker ; We shall try.
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- u* ^f- jT ( Propose X i « * < > ~ V * ^ ~ ^ ^ JL»
140 15th Sept, 1953. Consideration of the Report, of the Privileges Committee
in the ' D. G. Bindu's Case''
Consideration of the Report of the Privileges Committee in the D, G. Hindu's Case
Mr. Speaker ; Now we shall take up the 'continuation of discussion on the report of the Committee on Privileges on the T>. G. Bindu's case5*
^ T ^ y ^ - <*~\y> u& •$** <^&' *J V **^ i ju i jut j * Oy»j\
" That the matter be recommitted to the Privileges Committee for the reconsideration and report on the specific point whether the words * ashamed of* used by the hon. Minister were undignified, highly derogatory of the dignity and status of the hon. Members of this House/'
" The use of such undignified expressions is also not con-sistent with the standard which the House expects from its hon. Members. It constitutes a clear breach of privilege and contempt of the House as a whole and of all the hon. Members. The matter may/ therefore, be referred to the Committee on Privileges for investigation and report."
Shri F. 2). Beshpande ; Mr. Speaker, Sir, before you give a ruling, I have to point out that yesterday an hon. Member asked toat the report be recommitted for reconsideration
, Consideration of the Report 15th Sept, 1953. 141 of the Privileges Committee
*' in the * D. G. Hindu's Case'
"Provided that an amendment may be moved that the question be recommitted to the Committee either without limitation or with reference to any particular matter."
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- < / ^ ( i^ ^ J J 21 -51 u-l ^«f Li Whether this amendment can be moved or not*
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" That the matter be recommitted to the Privileges Committee for the reconsideration and report "
Jf r* Speaker : c* That the matter be recommitted to the Privilege Committee for the reconsideration and report on the specific point whether the words * ashamed * of used by the hon. Minister were undignified, highly derogatory of the dignity and status of the lion. Members of this House •" .
'V
142 15$ Sept*, 1958, Consideration of the ttepvrt of the Privileges Committee ' in the 4Z). G. Bindu's Case?
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Mr. Speaker : I allow the amendment. The hon. Members may now speak on that.
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Consideration of the Report 15th Sept, 1953. 143 d/ the Privileges Committee in the ' D. G* Hindu's Case'
( Brief )*•*&tJ^1 i - J sO ^^SLJ^^ ?j* A T ^ U -c: ^ ^ C i £
Chief Justice Cockburn in Campbell versus Spottisw-ode 129 R.R.552" you have a perfect right to criticise a man's public Conduct: you may denounce its impolicy you may denounce its folly you may denounce its absurdity. / . .
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144 15th Sept., 1953. Consideration of the Report of the Privileges Committee in the 4 IX G. Hindu's Case\
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It is subject to the provisions of the Constitution and the Rules of the House.
CQufixEoation not received.
Consideration of the Report 15th Sept., 1953. 145 of the Privileges Committee in the 'D. G. Hindu's Case*
Allegations against Members
Charges of uttering a deliberate falsehood abusive and insulting language.
villains ; impertinence ; rude remarks ; gross calumny; impudence; ruffianism; hypocrites, pharisees; slanderer; murderer; hooligan, blackguard; traitor; charges of treason; That a Member ought to have been imprisoned for high treason.
alleging that a,Member's statements were 'not consonant with personal honour'; lie down, dog; behaving like a jackass ; swine; cheat; not a damned one of you opposite; stool-pigeons; bastard.
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146 l5thSept.9 I95S Consideration ofthe Report of the Privileges Committee
in the B. G. Bindu's Case -
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Consideration of the Report 15th Sept., 1953 147 of the Privileges Committee in the 'D. G. Hindu's Case*
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Recommitted to the Coaamittee either without limitation or with .reference, to any particular matter.
148 15th Sept., 1953. Consideration of the Report of the Privileges Committee
in the 'D. G. Bindu's Case9
"That the matter be recommitted to the Privileges Committee for reconsideration and report,
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Consideration of the Report I5ih Sept, 1953. 149 of the Privileges Committee in the *D. G. Bindu's Case9
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150 15th Sept., 1953. Consideration of the Report of the. Privileges Committee ' in the tD. G. Hindu's Case'
^ ^ ( With the consent of Speaker )
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Consideration of the Report 15th Sept., 1953. 151 of the Privileges Committee
in the * D. G. Hindu's Case '
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MT\ Speaker: Why all these unwassanted remarks. The hoiu Member may speak on the amendment ?
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152 15th Sept, 1953, Consideration of the Report, of the Privileges Committee
in the ' D* G. Hindu's Case ' r
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Consideration of the Report 15tk Sept, 1953. 15g of the Privileges Committee in the *D, G. Bindu's Case'
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154 15th Sept, 1953. Consideration of the Report of the Privileges Committee in the *D. G. Hindu's Case'
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^fen F. !>• Deshpande ; Mr, Speaker : Sir, One minute. I just want to say a few words...
Mr. Speaker: No more speeches,
Shri V*B, Deshpande; Only one minute.. .
v tTji^i r o^u
i fn Speaker; Is the hon. Member going to speak on the amendment? If so, that .cannot be-allowed. Shri Ekbote has already replied to the discussion.
Shri V. B; Deshpande: I am speaking now only to give an explanation and under the rules I can give an explanation.
Mr. Speaker: Which is the rule? *
Consideration of the keport 15th SepL> 1953 155 of the Privileges Committee in the 'D. G. Hindu's Case'
Shri V. D. Deshpande: Rule 54 says :
" With the permission of the Speaker, a Member may at any time make a personal explanation although the question relating thereto is not then before the Assembly; but in doing so he shall not bring forward any debatable matter, not shall any debate be allowed on such explanation."
Mr. Speaker: . We can have it later on.
Shri V. D. Deshpande: Because this concerns the amendment, I just wanted to explain. If however you do not permit me, I will not proceed.
Mr. Speaker: If the hon. Member wants to offer any personal explanation with regard to any matter, then this rule will apply. Is it a personal matter ? Even then it should not be a debatable matter.
Shri V, D. Deshpande: Yes.
Mr. Speaker: Then he may s peak.
(Democratic Traditions ) < ^ 4 H ^ ^ c i u^n^tk^lXcrciU j * JEJUNI ^ ^ i - ^" ****• j y U r * &^ tr' - os* <£*V * * ^<&jk«s~jS"
156 15$ Sept., 1953. Consideration of the Report of the Privileges Committee
in the *D. G. Bindu 9s Case5
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(The amendment was, by leave of the House, withdrawn.)
Shri Gopalrao Ekbote: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move :
" That the report of the Committee on Privileges on the 4D. G. BinduV case be agreed to."
Mr. Speaker: I shall put the question....
Shri V. D. Deshpande: Mr. Speaker, Sir, At this stage, -I would like to speak on the report. I will not take more than a few minutes.
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L. A. Bill No. XXXIX \5th Sept., 1953. 157 of 1952, the Hyd. Dist. -Boards Bill, 1952.
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Mr. Speaker: Well, I don't think that any further discussion is necessary on the subject.
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The question is: " That the Report of the Committee on Privileges on
the *D. G, Bindu's Case' be agreed to/ '
^ The Motion was adopted- *
L. A. Bill No- XXXIX of 1952, the Hyderabad District Boards Bill, 1952,
Mr. Speaker: Now, we shall proceed to the next item on the Agenda : Continuation of the First reading of L.A. BiU No. XXXIX of 1952, the Hyderabad District Boards Bill, 1952.
m
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158 Uth Sept, 1953 L. A. Bill No. XXXJX of 1952, the Hyd. Dist.
Boards Bill, 1952. Mr. t Speaker: I would like the first reading of this Bill
is completed by the end of the day.
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Certain Government Officers can attend the meetings of the District Board.
[MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR]
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L. A. Bill No. XXXIX isth Sept, 1953. ] 50 * of 1952, the Hyd. Dist. J w
Boards Bill, 1952.
Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act, Government can do this, Government can do that- etc. etc.
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160 loth Sept, 1953 L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of 1952, the Hyd. DisV
Boards Bill, 1952,
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The House then adjourned for recess till Ten Minutes Past Five of the Clock.
The House reassembled after recess at Ten Minutes Past Five of the Clock.
[MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR]
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162 Uth Sept., 1953 L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of 1952, the Hyd.Dist.
Boards Bill, 1952.
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. L. A. Bill No. XXXIX 15th Sept., 1953. \m o/1952, theHyd.Dist Boards Bill, 1952.
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164 15th Sept., 1953. L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of -1952, the Hyd. Dist. Boards Bill, 1952.
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166 15tk Sept., 1953 L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of 1952, the Hyd. Dist. '
Boards Bill, 1952.
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. L. A. Bill No. XXXIX 15th Sept., 1953. 167 of 1952, the Hyd. Dist. Boards Bill, 1952
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168 15th Sept., 1953, L. A. Bill No. XXXIX ' o/1952, the Hyd. Dist.
Boards Bill, 1952.
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Boards Bill, 1952.
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170 15th Sept, 1958. L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of 1952, the Hyd. Dist. *
Boards Bill, 1952,
Shri M. S. Rajalingam: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Much has been said about the nominations in the District Boards Bill, and my hon. friends in their anxiety to show that the Government have erred in taking to the system of nomination stated, with the greatest vehemence that it has been done only with an intention to retain power and with no purpose. This charge has to be answered by us.
I feel that the Members of the Opposition have begun to think that the Government consists of a few individuals only and is not representative of democracy—this idea is likely in their minds and this is perhaps, is leading them to some sort of confusion, and such remarks. I would like to draw their attention, Sir, that every hon. Member of this House— Members on this side of the House as well as on the other side—has been elected by a popular democratic vote. Naturally, it means that the Government which is here and represented by a few hon. Ministers is a fully democratic Government, and that fact cannot be denied. Therefore, the charge levelled against the hon. Ministers that they only have an intention to retain power does not stand to reason. After all, no Minister is there to lose power and, in the same manner, no member is thereto forego power. We are here to have power with us and, at the same time, further up the popular democratic thought, for which we have pledged ourselves, and, therefore, Sir, this charge should not have been levelled against the hon. Ministers* That is one point.
Secondly, I would like to analyse the system of nominations as existing in the present democratic world. Broadly speaking, democracy is divided mainly into three categories: (i) individual democracy; (ii) party democracy; j&nd (Hi) peoples* democracy. In these three forms, the tendency of nomination in the shape of dictatorial tendencies is more fouad in the peoples'.democracy. The second stage is with
t . A. Bill No. XXXIX loth Sept., 1953. 171 of 1952, the Ryd. Dist.
Boards Bill, 1952.
the party democracy, and, perhaps, nil in the individual democracy
Shri V. D. Deshpande: May I know whether the hon. Member is addressing only one side of the House ? (Laughter).
Shri M. S. Rajalingam: Let him not interfere what I say, I am proud that my hon. friends on this side of the House have been well-educated on this point.
Hence the need to address you above (Interruption) I was referring to indmdual democracy. When my friends ^on the Opposition could put up with the system of nomination in people's democracy in its highest form and could also in a way put up with the dictatorial thought to the greatest extent, I do not see any reason why they cannot put up with this little bit of nomination, now* Well, I can only conclude that they have not understood the correct side of democracy. We are functioning... • (Shri Deshpande: I t is the other side that has not understood... •) And that is the reason why by an anti-democratic world we are likely to be cajoled or laughed at. I am quite sure that my hon. friends who are well-versed with the democratic thought are aware that nominations are always proportionate or used in porportion to the mass consciousness of the common man. Well, if there is perfectness in any individual, neither the Government nor the system of nomination can possibly have any place in the Society but till the stage of perfect idealism is achieved, the issue of nomination, however much you like it or not, does continue and should continue in every walk of life. In taking to the system of nomination, be it with the greatest reluctance, Government has done the right thing in view of our local consciousness, as a step towards a perfect idealistic State.
Thirdly, there has been some reference about the control that has been exercised. Control in some shape or other is always there. The differentiation made between a CoUee-tor and Government is a point which I cannot appreciate, much less visualise. If it is a question of Government, some members ask*: 'What justice is done by centralising pcmer and some times, they also say that Government should <te~ t^ t raKse ip powers. I am mirprfeed to find that botii these
172 loth Sept., 1953. L. A. Bill No. XXXIX of1952, the Hyd.Dist. <
Boards.Bill 1952.
conflicting views are put forward with equal vehemence by the Opposition Members. When such things come up here, we are not in a position to know where we stand and which point of view they are pleading for. (Interruption) As things stand to day, I feel that the control that has been exercised is necessary and we have to go ahead with that. Similarly, regarding the question of assessment, I have heard some strange speeches here. I do not like to dilate on that, but, in a way, I cannot proceed without making a passing reference on that point. In view of our local conditions, wre should develop or evolve in consultation with the District Boards a uniform taxation policy. Is it an error on the part of the Government ? That is what I want to know. Is it that we want to have an irregular sort of economy and also a non-uniform policy in the State allowing every District Board to follow its own policy. I am confident my friends will say that there should be a uniform poKey so far as assessment and taxation are concerned. True administratively local conditions may necessitate a certain degree of changes here and there. Also a certain amount of relaxation may have to be made if and when emergencies arise. But so far as taxation in general is concerned, the policy laid down in the Bill is for a uniform one and well thought over. This sort of uniformity have pleaded with regard to sales tax and on this point the whole House was imanimous. I wonder how this difference could step in at this stage.
There is a question posed to us. Does the Government intend to tax the common man not knowing his capacity to pay t I t is well known that taxation should be in proportion to the capacity to pay and if the people have not got the required capacity to pay, other methods will have to be evolved whereby their paying capacity improves. But to think tfc&t Government is something different from the people and the people, from the Government and that taxes should not be levied on the people and that the whole money should be found with the Government — these are strange points which I fail to understand and I do not know how my friend has been pleading for such things. These are things interlinked. People have got to pay taxes. No Minister could ever think of himself jsaying the whole amount required for nation-building activities which people envisage from his, purse. There is another thing that has been referred to. The Local Booties' Coherence held at Madras and the policy laid and sug-
LJi. Bill No. XXXIX 15th Sept, 1953. 173 of 1952, the Hyd. Dist.
- Boards Bill, 1952.
gestions made thereat—these are things that have been referred to. We are in total agreement with them. But each State has got its own considerations- It may be administrative, organisational or convictional. All these things have to be balanced and it is only a collective thought of all these things that is going to give us a correct lead. In view of this, the Bill, as it stands, is perhaps the best that we can have in the present situation. If, in due course, any changes come in, leading to the development of a correct perspective of democracy, I feel that nominations should be completely removed. I am one of those who feel that there should be no Government, provided we are individually perfect.- To that stage, we have to work up. Sitting here, it is our objective to reaeh that stage. When I speak of so much idealism, I do not want to forget the practical side of the picture. Having all these things in view, I feel, Sir, that we have done our best in the given situation. My friends have really to compliment for it. I wish they should not forget that the forces that are ruling are for democracy and they have come up on a democratic vote.
with these few words, I close.
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- ^* ^ ^ ( Continue ) *^~
We now adjourned till 2 P.M. The House then adjourn till Two of the Clock on Wed
nesday, the 16th September, 1953.