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Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 27 OCTOBER 1914

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1520 Questions. fASSEMBLY.] Question Omitted from Pap,r.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

Tl-ERDAY. 27 Ot TOLER. 1914.

Tlw S:>EAKEE (Han. IY. D. Arm,trong, l.r;c,~ ,' 1

( r) took the c11air at hal£-rw.-t 3 o'clock.

FACTORIES A:'\D SHOPS \CTt:i A::\lE:\'D::O.IE:'\T BILL- \GTIICL'LTCHAL ll.\:'\K M:T .\:,IEl'\IniK\T BILLHOY 'I.L .-\GR!Cl'I.Tt'RAL SOCIETY CJF CH'EE:'\;3LAXD LA:i'\D MORTG.\GE BILL.

The SPE.-\KEH announce>d tho rc ,•ipt of a nlL ,~a(;P fron1 II is ExcPll' ncY the Lieuh'na.nt-lio",'Prnor as:-.enting to th0:5e BillR.

PAPERS.

Th<• following paper-., laid on the table, \YC'l'P ordered to bQ printed:--

RPport hy the trnste<·· of the Agricultural Bank of Queensland for tlw financial year ended 30th June, 1914.

T"·clfth annual report of the Commis::;ioner of Incomo T:x.

QCESTIONS.

ScBSIDIES TO GoLDnELDS.

i\lr. :\1ACKAY (Gympir) asked th0 Secretary for :!\1ine'-

" 1. ·what assistance was givE'n in aid of mining, by v, ay of subsidy, to the various goldfields of Qu<'ensland. for the year ended 30th Juno, 1914 :-(a) Amount granted; (b) amount expended ~

" 2. Is the balance ctill available for tho per\•on or company interested 9

"3. h the £16.000 now appearing on the Estimate"· in addition to tho subsidy previousl.v voted by Pa.rliament ?"

The SECRETARY FOR MINES (Hon. J. G. Appel, A.lbe1·t) replied-

" 1. Granted during year ended 30th Juno, 1914--

" Deep Sinking " Roads and Bridges and

W a tor Supply " Prospecting

£ s,. d. 19,920 0 0

4,708 18 1 1,919 0 0

" Expended from Vote " Deep Sinking ... " Roads and Bridges, " Prospecting

'' 2. Yes.

£26.547 18 1

1913-1914-9,157 3 4

etc. 3,652 2 5 632 6 3

£13.441 12 0

"3. This is no'v under consideration."

RocKHnr; ro:-~ ELE:TORAL CouRT.

?.Ir. ADX:\ISON (Rockhampton) asked the I-Imnc SccrPtary-

" 1. Is he aware that at the October sittings of the Electoral Court held in

Roc1<hamptoi1 there were 366 electoral claims rPjPrtcd b0cau:-· they >n•re not properly filled in"

"\\.,.ill ho (;a use an inqnir~ ro br- rnad _:a to the nature of thr· ina- c·nr cics "·hich ' lll'"d thec.e claii,l' to be rejected·,,.

Tlw IlO:\lE SECRETARY iHnn. J. G . . \ppPI. .1 Ill! rt) replied-

"1. I :- rn infort11cd t 1

\':ere l'('j{r'ted b;\._an::e con1ph· with the Ac .

•· 2. Yes."

3~6 elai1ns cl:d nut

:\Ir. Hl'NTER (JI"r '1/0a) n-hc1 the Serretar,': for Pub:ic Land~-

" 1. h it a faet that the FeJeral authoriti0s ar(~ cndcaYcurinu- to ~3rure, for rnilitary vurposc ", an al'ea of land m1 the :\'o,:th Cc1.st line. bem·eeu Glass I-Ionf;(' ~Iountains and Beerburrun1 '!

'' 2. If so, what is the area sought, and is it on uno or beth sidPs of the railwav?

.: 3. Have arrangements for the transfpr bPPn completed; if not, "·ho or what i, rPsponsiblo for the delay and to what stage ha.-e negotiations be-en advanced."

The SECRETARY FOR P'CBLIC LA:\'DS-(Hon. J. Tolmic, Touwoom ba) replied

" 1. Not aware of it. "2. See No. 1. '' 3. See No. 1. An offer bY the State

of 42,430 acres. including lar]cl on both sides of the railway line for artillery purposes was refused bv the Commonwealth o~ 14th June, 1913."

Ql~ESTION 0::\J:ITTED FRO::YI Bl'Sil\ESSPAPER.

Mr. FIIIELLY (Pactclington): ::Y1r. SpE>akcr,-I wish to ask why a. question of which I gaw notice last Thuroda]' does J?-Ot appear on the business-paper? I may pomt out---

The SPE.\.KER: Order! Tho han. member mav not debate the question. I did not think the" question came within the requirements of Standing Order. No. 66.. and ther.efore clireeted the Clerk, m comp1lmg the busme spapcr, to omit it.

:\Ir. FIIIELLY: I wish to ask you a que~tion about a rnattcr arising~-

The SPEAKER: Order ! The han. htember m,1y not ask the Speaker the question.

Mr. FIHELL Y: On the question of order, then. I ask von whether a question concerning tho non:charging of certain freig-hts by tlw Haih.-ay Departnwnt is no~ a matter of public importance?

The SPEAKER : There is no quc,tion of order. I may point out to the han. mei,-,ber that the question referred to might be more properly asked when the Eetimate~ of ~he Railway Depal'tment are under consideration in Committee.

Supply. [27 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1521

SL'PPLY.

FI:-L\XC"IAL STATE1IEXT-RESUMPTIOX OF DEBATE. (Jfr. Stodart, Looan, in the chair.)

Qu~ction stated-That there be granted to Hi~ ::\1ajesty, for the se_rvire of the year 1914-15, a sum not exceedmg £300. to defray tho ,aJary of aide-de-camp to His Excellency the Governor.

Mr. GRA~T (Fitcroy): I am exceeding!~· pleased with the Financial Statement which has been prescnte<l by the Treasurer. The r<>porting of surpluses is becoming almost lYJonotonous. This is the tC'nth sucrl'ssiYo

car that "·e have had a surpluo, and when vou contrast the Stc.tEmwnt "ith other Financial Statements mad" in the Commonwealth. it is a.!l the more pleasing·. At this tirnc of na6onal stress it is YPr:v p1r>J.sing indl•ed, to all patriotic Quecnd •ndero, to know that Queensland is among tho few States of Au•.t,ralia that have not had to go in for retrenchment. There is onlv one form of rdrPnchmcnt that the Gov~rn.ment have "dopkd, and it bear" r'thcr hardlv on some of the underpaid public seen-ants-as, for ins tan: f', pupil-teachers. Pupil-teachcrR base almost an agrPPment with tlw Statr' that if thev p• -:s a ( ertain exal!lination tlwv will got~ an incrt~Sf' in their en1olnmc'lt:, and tht'.V hcwe to work hard to paRs tho'<' examinations. This ' ar they wiil not get tho,p inrrc:"CS. I hope, ho"·t·Yc ·. th::t the )JinistPr will s •e his way cleJr to put 0nough on the Snpplerllen~,ar,Y E~tin1atc;s to meet their ( ·tsf', be ,;ufo t1wse ~Toung teachers }J.:LY(' to pa~.' protiu fn.iff r"'Caminafions. lTnlike the public srl".·ant· in other Stat;c ·,, the public Sl'rvants in Qncc 'tS] and ha.ve no retrenchllwnt to brar. and I hont· the conclitrons will fa lrnproyp JH "'-d Yf" 'rrr that even tl:cn retr•:nchmcnt will not· lw neees·• arv. ThP Finanrial St·· tenJf'nt ha~ bPPn critici::-8d bv 111Pn1bcr::-. on thn ctlwr sidu. but not ,,·ith I'Juch Yigour. Tlw ln1der of t!w Opposition f'irnpl_y took onP or two para~raphs fro1n tho Anclitor-GenPrar.; rf'port. and cmlarfied upon them. Tho'" pa.ragraphs referred, among oth0r things, to the pur.clwse uf the Seaforth Ec-,tate. There oqght to be a ~tatute of limitation:;. with regard to the crit.icif'ln of tbe GovcrnmeFt on such que tions. \Yhat member of the p1·esont Ministry had an~·thin~ to do with tho pmchw·p of the s._-aforth Est~tc? \Yhy -hou.Jd it be brought forward a.i: the prPPen~~ tnne? ThP sarne rcnu1rks appl:v to the J'dr Keen motor-ears and the Renard road train. The office,_· repponsible for the purchase of those vehicles is no longer with us. Ho was an expert an<] a trustee for the people of Queensland, and when he recomnwndPd a certain purchas.;, >.·.·hv should tbe Minister, who is a la,·man, object?

::\1r. HAliiiLTOX: \Yhy should the AuditorGeneral bring it up'!

Mr. GR.\NT: I do not know wh:· he should bring it up.

::Yir. McCoRMACK: Don't von know that thev had been scrapped in ',.\ morica before the}· were brought to Australia?

Mr. GRAKT: 'i'\o one would advocate the purchase of sueh machinery if he knew it had been sl'rappcd in Amcril'a. The leader of the Opposition said it was a good thing that in this terrible national crisis we had tlw Commonwealth Bank and a Commonwealth note issue. \Yhat has the Commonwealth Bank done for Q.uecnsland? Ask the hon. member for Leichhardt what it has done

1914-5 A

for Queensland. In the constituency of that hon. member there are 400 miners who are earning a living by mining for sapphires. The Commonwealth Ba.nk was approached and asked if thPy would purcha 'e those sapphires or advance money on them. \Vhat was the answer of the Commonwealth Bank to that request., They said they would adYancu money on the sapphires, provided the State Government would gua.rantee the adYanct'. Is there any other bank in Australia which would not d~ that'( \Vherein does the Commonwealth Bank difl'c•r from other banks i11 that respc·ct?

Mr. THEODORE: They helped the Cloncurry rninc.'3.

::'<Ir. GRAXT: The State Government have com<' to the assistance of the Hampden :\line and the Mount Morga.n ~line in order tn enable those companies to keep a number of men in employment. The :l\Iount ::\lorgan Railwa:. pays the department something like £10,000 a month. Ha.~ the Commomvealth Bank eYor hdpcd the pa'toralists of Quh·nsland'!

l\Ir. RYAX: Yes.

:Hr. GRANT: Yes; one man. I know \\ho that one man is. Has the Commonwec.lth Bank over helped the small men on our grazing arcts in QuecnFland? I know u grazing farmer who rcpplied to the Commonwealth Bank for an advance, and this i·, the replY which hr rc~oived--

.. Cornn1onv,:ea.lth Bank. ·'Brisbane, 14th October. 1914. "'.L-lac'f:nN'i IJtl H.,. no[.

"Dea1· Sir,-\Vith referen<:e to your letter of the 6th insta.nt. we haYe to' advise that the bank is \Yilling to ach·ance a~. ainst bills of lading for wool shipped to England for rcalisa.tion, but not ag-ainst \\'ool tared indofinit.,J·. on the station or in ool :::.tore-;. The ac.lYance could h.• made to the extent of 50 ncr C( nt.. o£ the valuE' rulinr: in 1913 'for similar \Yool. but not to exceed 6d. per lb.

'·Yom faithful!,·. ,, J. K. HEXDERSOX.

"::\Ianager .. ,

That j,, thu wav tho Comr;wnwcalth Bank hrO a.dvancing n~oney to the 1nen engag0d in the· primary industries in Queensland. These are little men who are asking for tht',,e ndYanC'~'S, not big n1en at all. I ask tho leader of the Opposition again to show wlHTe thr, Cominornvcalth Bank has con1o to the assistance of Qucen~l:)_nd in any way; I ask the hon. me·nbcr for Leichharclt where th<' Commonwt•alth Bank has comP to the assistance of the miners in his electorate? I know one imtance where the Commonwealth Bank made an advance to a pastoraJist in Queensland. They a.dvanced him £16,000 o1· £17,000, and he is one of the wealthiest men in Queensland at the present time.

Mr. HnTILTON: You must be in the confidence of the manager.

Mr. GRANT: If a bank advances money under a bill of sale, it io published in the '• Gazette," and anyone f'an f-lee it there. We know that the Commonwealth Bank underwrote £200,000 for the British Proprietary Mining Company a~ Brok_e~ Hill at 6 per cent. That wa.s qmte !eg1hmatc; and it is good bn nking busines, to do it. I c<Jn not saying anything about the way they

Mr. Grant.]

1522 Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Supply.

carry on their business, but what I would like· to know is: 'Where have they helped Queensland?

Mr. THEODORE: They helped tho mines at Cloncurry.

Mr. GRA='JT: I ask the deputy leader of the Opposition: Is the Hampden :\fine at Cloncurrv the onlv institution in Quocn,lancl that has· re0eivocl 'an advance from the Commonwealth Bank'?

:Ylr. THEODORE:. J'\o; I can name others. I can write them out.

:Mr. GRAJ'\T: I would be very glad if the han. member would write them clown and let us sec tho list of people who received advance, from the Commonwealth Bank in Queenslund. How much money has thP Commonwealth Bank lent in Queensland altogether'! I •vould like to know from hon. members opposite how much monPy tho Commonwealth Bank has received from Queensland in deposits and so forth, and how much money it has lent to Queensland in return? I do not think that tho Comm.onwPalth Bank should have a Savings Bank business attach£<d to it at aiL Tho Savings Bank branch of the Cornmonwealth Bank is a losing institution. The aggregate loss of the Commonwealth Savings Bank in two years amounts to £48,757. If it is right that we should have a Commonwealth Bank entering into competition with the other trading banks in Australia, that is no reason whv the CommonW<'alth should have• started a Savings Bank '" well. Jt is only running two institutions of the same kind, and making both more expensive to run. The only difference is that the Quepnsland Savings Bank monBy goes out afterwards in the form of loans to workers to erect workers' dwellings, and to agricultural farmers.

Mr. FOLEY : It had the effect of increasing the deposits which can be made in the State Savings Bank.

Mr. GRA::'-!T: Well, having accomplished that, it should have retired from the field, and not have entered further into competition with the State Savings Bank. The leader of the Opposition also spokB about the success of the Commonwealth note issue. Might I just read what Mr. Holman, the Premier of New South \Vales, said tho other day when speaking on the Financial Statement introducPd into the New South \Vales Parliampnt. He said--

" \V e are continually urged in some quarters to commence building a railway line from Condobolin to Broken Hill, and to start numerous other public works all ovC'l' the State. Those •vho urge th< se wild-cat schemes sav that we should finance them by bm:rowing bank noks from the Federal Government. One hardly has patience to deal v ith proposals of that kind with the consideration they deserve, because thc•y are no doubt made as the result of genei·al and real suffPring. But I would like to point out that if we• were to borrow two, three, or five million pounds of paper money and pay our worlmwn wit·h it, those notes would. through the medium, of the stores. find their wav into the banks, and the banks would b~ forced t.o either hold the not<~ indefinitely, thus actually granting- to us a loan, which the:v cannot afford to do just now, or to ·'end them on to tho Federal TrBasurv in Melbourne and demand gold for them. Then the Federal

[.:vir. Grant.

Treasury would have to either retuse ta pav gold, and thus create the very panic which we arc striving so hard to prevent, or to pay out gold until the gold supply got far below the legal maximum, wh_un a refusal to pay gold would be unavmdablc.

"Opposition m,•mbers: \Vhy don't you sav that outside.

:, ' Sugg0stions of this kind,' continu~d the Premier. 'arc suggest10ns whroh, I will sa:-- now plainly, •vill not be ";dopted b:-· tlw Trca urv of Xew Sonth Wales while this GovPrllmcnt. remains in its place. (Loud Opposition (hee,·s.) \Ve will meet thi' difficultv f·irlv and straightforwardly. \'fp. -will do 'everything a GoYernm.ent cc;.n do h diminsh thil suff<>rings winch wrll undoubted!:- arise out of tho war.' "

:\Ir. RYA:\: Yon don't object to that, do you·:

l\Ir. GR.-\::\T: No. I think that is right, but men '"ust be prepared to show some <'UE'rgy in these matters. Mr. Holman further ,tatNl-

" But I would like to say here, and now that men must be prepared to show 'om~ cnergv in these matters. The workers of the State upon whom the misfortune ha.s fallen cannot regard themselvE'' as having any special claim upon us for anvthimr more than a general svmpatheti~ an;{iety to meet the cmer;enoiE's as they arise, in accordance with the general needs of the community. At Broken Hill, for instance. at the present moment, a body of men is simply hanging around the town in idleness, imagining that they have a right to b.e maintained in idleness, while they srt down at the poppet-heads of the mines, which hav<> been thrown idle, and wait for the better times to como to set the wheele going onC'e more ''

That is the Premier of New South Wales. It seems to me to be a little bit ungrateful on his part when he says that the men who have returned him to power have no special claims on him at all. 'l'ake th<' two Labourgoverned States. of New South \Va_Jes and \Vestern Australia. I do not deal wrth them from a financial point of view, as the han. member for J\Turrumba dealt very ably with that aspeet. but from the point of view of the workPrs. Are the workers as well off in thosP Labour-governed States as thny are irr the Liberal-goverued States?

i\Ir. RYAN: Thev arc be~ter off. They get betkr wages in the Labour-goYE'rned States.

?.Ir. GRAJ'\T: Better off! The cost of living is more in other States than it is in Queensland. \Ve kn.ow that queensl2;nd ;, the cheapest Rtate m Australia to live in Yet although :l\;ew South Wales and S~dncv 'are very dear to live in, all the Labour Government of New South \Vales can offer the workers there is .£1 7e. a week.

Mr. LE"xox: That is not true. It is the lowest they can do, not the be-. t.

?.Ir. GRAKT: Tho .£1 7s. " week was the best thev could do. It is their minimum wage. That is the best they can do for their workers-three days a week at 9s. per day. Does it not show that, in the opinion of the Premier d New South Wales, that £1 7". a week is a n1ini1num ·wage?

::\1r. _RYA": No.

Suppl.;. [27 Oc~oBER.] Supply. 1523

Mr. GRAXT: Remember this is not for single nwn, but for man·iril men with families. ThPro i; one thing that I had for· g-ottt'n. The Government let the workers in :\'cw South "'ales have a tent., for which tlw:; charc··e ls. a week, so that brings the amount down to £1 6s. a week. I was in Rockhampton last w0ck, and a number of men waited on me in regard to getting 11·ork. They ,, .. e:·,• sent up to 1hc North Coa:.;t li11c f'OL ,,truction -,vorks, but a:'i no rails havf• COL..lO through th""re is a ~.e:-trcity of w·ork there. I ascertained that a grca~t pl'oportion of the nH~ll \vho \Yaited on nH~ in Rockhampton have onlv been a fortnight in Que•·n-land. ""' they ha'd come from New Sou~il \Yalos. (Government laughter.) They \\ere very dc-::0nt n1C1:1, and they tramped all the way from Rockhnmpton. They were flying frorn thP \\Tath t.J carne in the shape of unemploynH'nt inN ew :'\outh \\"alPs, and came to the Liberal Government State of Queensland. I put myself to some trouble to try to get them work at Rockhampton. but I would like to point out that it will be extremely difficult for us to get work for <mr own men. but it will be still more difHcult if WQ have to provide work also for the men who come here from New ~outh V.' alr .. ,, and \Vestern Australia.

::\Ir. BERTRA>I: You know that the per.,,cntage of unemployment is higher in Qtwen,lrrnd than the other States?

::\ir. GRANT: I do not. Th1r. ADAMSON : Are there not some men

out of work in Rockhampton?

Mr. GRANT: There are, unfortunately. They are not getting such frequent employment because there is lc'<~ shipping corning there.

Mr. LENNON : Are they getting £1 7s. a week?

Mr. GRANT: It rs a poor lookout for men in Queensland if they can only get ~1 7s. a week, especially if they .are married men ..

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! I hope hon. members on my left will refrain from interjecting, and allow the hon. member for Fitzroy to proceed with his speech.

Mr. GRANT: Perhaps they are feeling !t rather keenly. (Opposition l-aughter.) It rs because the Labour Government of New South ·wales is such a splendid object for the doctors of Queensland at the coming election. The only criticism of the deputy leader of the Labour partv was .a tirade against the Government because the:y did not give the lower-paid men in the Government service the increases they used to get.

Mr. Hc;XHAM: Didn't vou do the same just now? ·

Mr. GRAX~: I confined myself entirely to the Education Department, and I hope the officers I referr _ d to will get the reward they merit.

Mr. FoLEY: Talking to the gallery.

Mr. GRANT: If members of the Labour party were to refrain from t-alking to thB gallery they would have very little indeed to say. {Government laughter.)

Mr. McCoRlfACK: "What about the beef trust.

Mr. GRANT: That is a peculiar illustra.tion of the .attitude of members opposite. At the beginning of the session we heard

nothing but the beef trust, but now we hear nothing about it. How is that? Is it because the Act passed by the Government

has knocked the whole of that l4 p.m.] from beneath thei1' feet-knocked

that structure from under them? Is thoro any other other reason why the beef trust has been abandoned? Then we v ere told that it wa'' the butchers of Bri, .. bane who were " grinding- the face" of the poor." But even the Labour but,hers got up jn anns and made such a strong case, that that cry has been abandoned, and the party opposite are now coming back on the squatter. They say he is the man who is rc·ponsible for the high price of meat, and we hear nothing of the American meat trust. which, to me, is very signifiCant. The incr(•ased prices cattle are now bringing will tend to the closer settlement of our coastal lands, because the cattlemen will now improve their holdings, provide smaller paddocks and water faciliti<'S, and probably put the scrub lands under artificial grasses; and where, .at present, it requires 14 .acres to a bullock, they may reduce the area to 5 or 6 acres to a bullock. As a matter of fact, I know scrub land in the Central district which has been mwn with Rhodes grass which, in the dry times, carried three beasts to the acre. \Ve have anv .amount of that scrub land all over Queer1sland, and probably th<>· high prices for cattle will be the means of that land being put to more advantageous use. There is another matter in regard to the 'crub lands : I hope the Treasurer will see his way to provid,., water facilities. The settlc\rS on Mount La.rcom and on the Dawson Vall0y .are a fine body of men, and they have rcallv made "the desert blossom hke the rose,'' but in dry times they find it very hard to get wa.ter, and the Government ohould consider that if it is desirable to get new men settled on the land, it is still more clesir.able to keep the men on the land who are already ther-e. When the member for Burrum delivered that slashing speech the other night, he was followed by the hon. member for Brisbane, who stated that, bad as New South Wales and \Vestern Australia were, the people in those States had approved of them-that the,- had returned a Labour Government in \V 0;tern Australia. Even if that were true, it is no argument n.t all. If in Western Australia and in New South Wales the finances are badly manag-ed or not, and the people who badly manap;ed them are returned to office by the rluctors, that is no argument to say tha.t the finances are well managed. It is rather o curious commentary on the State ,,]ections, just as it was in Queensland, that a ccrL1in bodv of men both in W<:>strrn Austra(ia and in Qiwensla.nd voted Liberal in the Rtatc ac1"1 Labour for the Commonwealth.

::\Ir. FOLEY: You are re::koning on that n0xt time.

Mr. GRANT: Yes, and with everv confidence, too. (H0:1r, hear!) I thi,;:k we are going to have fairly bad times in Queensland ; that this war is going to leave an aftermath that will be distressing to every man in Queensland, whether it be a business man or a worker. and the great idea to be kept in our minds in Australia for the next few years ought to be increased production to try and give employment to everyone. I think the Government are doing their share in that respect. They are putting all the men P'?Ssible on railway works,

Mr. Grant.]

152-1 Supply. [ASSE:i\IBLY.] Supply

but it must be realised that it is a rather difficult matter to keep a large number of men employed. Take the North Coast line. They have no rails there, and the Government have pushed the earthworks as far as they possibly can, and han. members will recognise that if the earthworks are pushed on in flooded country, with the wet season coming on, it will be almost a waste of money.

::Wr. HAMILTON: They have not shifted a foot of earth on the Winton-Springvale line.

Mr. GRANT: I will give the han. member for Gregory all the .assistance I can to get that line started. I would like to see a few hundred men working on the Wintcn to Springvale line and also on the other line the hon. member has near his heartthat is. tlw Longrcach to \Vinton line-be· cause that line will not only be a good payable line but it will come to the assistance of the State in the matter of saving stock. There might be a dry time in the Southern part of the State, while in the Gulf districts there may be a good season. At the present time there is no opportunity of shifting stock from the Southern part of the State to the Northern districts.

:i\Ir. LENNON: How is .the Dawson Valley line getting on ?

::\lr. GRANT: Some of the finest farmers in Queensland have been settled on the Dawuon Valley line. No public man can be ridden down except by himself, and that is the position I took up in rrs-ard to that line. I thought it my duty to leave the Government over that particular question, and probably of the many men now facing me very few of them would have had the courage to adopt the attitude I took up on that occasion. There is another matter that partly bears on what the member for Gregory says; I hope the Minister for Railways and the Government will consider which lines are likely to be profit-bearing the soonest. Let them concentrate their energies on those lines and get them finished, because we shall want all the money we can get next year. Personally, I think the Treasurer is inclined to be too optimistic in his present Estimates, but that is more of a virtue than a vice at this particular time, because the Government should be optimistic at this stage, as it will encourage private people to make investments.

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : Thev cut down the hospital vote. ·

Mr. GRANT: From the Estimates as now framed thP hospitals will get £2 for CYl'l"'

£1 subscribed. Mr. HuXHA1!: What about the ambu

lance?

::V1r. GRANT: Is there any ambulance brigade in Queensland that is not in a good financial position?

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Yes.

Mr. GRANT: NNrrly all tho ambulance brigade< I know of have fixed dc;Josit'. The Brisbane Ambulance Brigade is very wcalthv in that rc·o;poct; so is thP Toowoomb"a. Br·iga.cJe and many others. If there arc anv ambulance brigades not in a good financi~l position, let them be treated differentlv to the others. ThosP who have frxed <lel)osits should not expect the C··ame

[Mr. Grant.

subsidy as brigades that are struggling unJt>r difficulties, because thc·re is not the slightest doubt that the ambulance brigades. appeal to every man in Queensland. As a matter of fact, there is no other State in Au·,trali<1 that compares with Queensland in rcga.rd to the amount of mono5 spent on charities. Take anything that alleviates suffering. and it will be found that Queensland stands pre-eminent. In the matter of education we arc miles 'ahead oi anv State in Au,tra.lia. I had the gooc! fortune to be conrwctcd with the Education T)cpartmont wlwn we inaugurated the merlioal inspection of ,;chouls in Queensland, and also ~·'nt the <eye doctor to the West. Only now are the other State; coming into line with us in that rcg.:rd. Th~re is not a boy or girl in QuePnsland, "·hcther the dPccendant of wealthy or poc1· pare11fs. who cannot work rig·ht up to the University without cost to themseln '· Equal opportunity to all is. provid<'cl in Qur ens!and. I am pleased that the Tr "'surer has such high confidenc0 in Queensland and that h0 hCJs put fon\ >nd such an optimistic E·.Jimate. That is a good thing. because the Government of the State houkl show the confidence that every

p2triot;., Quc•'ndandcr has in the St!lte. :'vir. McCOlt:UACK (Cairns): During the

-courKP of th}, dL'Jatu I have listenc~l to a good n1a~1y ~· t>:::echos by lllCillllers on the C:{nTP1"~ ~wnt ~id•' \Yhicb haYe dealt wilh Xe\Y South \Yalcs politics and with \V< ·tc,·n Australian politi{'s. The onl} ans\\ cr to thG' eritici~n1s of this side that we haYe had have· b .. ,n critici,;ms of the Xew South \Yak·'> finaHcPs. Vlhat that he, to do with QneenslnrH: f-inance is beyond InC'. \YC' 111ight as 1-vcll ay that the lJlY·~c'nt Go,, cr11nwnt are rcspon·, ilrle ;or the nnfo tunat'! occnrr-0nce Jf £ll.OOJ,OOO of loan money falling due on thP one dav as to :;;J.-:~ th; t thf Oucensland L~1bour party v.ronld p;lt Qu·P~ns]ar1d into th& ··elm'.' position as New South \:Vales is in. What has thn (~uecwlaud Labour party to do >Yith y,-hflt 11r. II0lnran has donr;? Ilo'' ,:_ YC'r, 11r. IIoln1a:n. ~d far as T kno\Y, is quite able to Jne!:>t hi; critics in his O\Yn IIou&e. Frorn ·, h 1t I kno\v of hin1 he is a nit,~ a~ able to· holcl his own as hon. rne1nLc·r:s occupying thtY Trc';Lury l-· nch0<'i opposite, as :--oi'lc; of thoQucr•n:-:;]aild rcprc.entatiYc , the Trea-surer and the Premier, ·, ho have vi:citcd l\1dbournc; and Bat in conf0rcnce 1.vith hi111, \YOll know. The po ilion in X~w South Wales is q .iP different from that of {:!uP·'nsland. The hon. m•,mher "· ho L.1,s just rcs'uned his cc.•.t has 'tai>d th :t the New South \Vale• Qover·nlnent helieve in a minin1um \Yage of .Bl 73. a week. :'\ow, what "rc the facts of thC' ca~c ·: So far as we ar(' concerned, we fin:! tht:t in most instances th~ puhlic ser'.ants in J\'ew South \ValPs. oven with the 10 per cent. rpduction in thejr salaries, are in a httcr position than in Que<'nsland. Take the raihny employ•_ es: they are be~ter off in ::\'ew South Wales than some of the railv;-ay cn1plo:Tf'S here-station-1n.a-sters, and navvics, ar•d oth0rs in Qucpnsland. And the men who ·are getting three days' work a week from the ::\"cw South 'Wales Government are men '' ho are out of work, and are on casual work: they arc not t.hc general employees in th<' Go,-ernm€mt sen·icf'. \Vhat is the position in Que<mdand? No attempt whatever has bcen made bv the Gm-ernnwnt to find work for the unemplo~-ed. and there cannot be cm:v comparison lwtwef'n a GovernJnent which is Loginning to find \Vork for the


unemployed and a Government which has :taken no step in that direction. There has been no retrenchment here, we are told but nothing is Leing dont~ to assist men \Yh~ are -o~~ ~f work, and, froru tho outlook, .11othing ,'l,-111 ue done. There are number-; of unenlploycd all owr the State. There certainlv has b•~en no ret renchm<mt in the genera:! publi-c Sf!l'V"icc, a.ncl there have evPn been a. few incn ~sc•s to highly paid officials, but, so iar as the great bulk of the unemnloved are concerned, WP have nothing don8, and <ipparently there is no intention of doing any~ thing-. I say that the criticism which has been deliY creel at the Holman Government is, therefore, quito undesened. As a matter of fact. for y< n' the Liberal party in Quet·n.•;JFnd ha'.-c advocJ.tcd hu~·e borrowing. The~· have told u-· tbat the Governmc;nt hich bolTo · cd the mo't was the most prosporn:._l·' an·! thC' n1ost progressive, and -;:;un~l:,.- rhPy C\Rllnot 'CfHllpl.;in of Ri1nilar action by tho Holman Gon•rnnwnt. The c!Pputy leader of the farmc•r·' party himself advo· -cated tl ,ame cout·c as ~fr. Holman s.dopted-that i:-:;, ~JOITOVY as ll1UCh ffiOll-f:_Y as you <-an and ~pend it on rPlnoduetivc ,,~ol·l;-s; and, if the position of the finances in :1\ ew South \Y.ales is nmati.,facton. it is hecaus<' thP old irlca of Liberalism h"as bc."n proved to l1c not ·:,orth follo\Ying up. That is hat iws hr ·11 proved hy Mr. Holman, because he ha,, invP"terl his 1nonev in thB identical ~~~,orks in whid1 \Yf' are in\~esting our;:;. The ::'\ew South \'Vales GO\·crnmcnt are ependingthC' rnost of th0ir n1oney on raihvays, as the l1on. member ha .. ah\·1vs advocated. As a matt<•J" of fact. if the Government here pro~ ·ceedPd on tlH• prc.c·· pts of the far1nPrs' party, 1.ve woul·d he :::pr-nding as n1uch money as Mr. Holmon has hc·cn spending; we would be r,.;pcndin<t a::- 1nuch as Vi.'t' \o,tld get.

cdr. TinlBEGTo;:.;: vYe haw• spent it well.

Mr. ::VIcCORMACK: So has Mr. Holman, and, no doubt, in the future, New South Wales will benefit by Mr. Holman's action in sp_ending- large amounts in building rail· ways. .\nd one of the causes of the expen· <:liture is that he has been doing work which a Liberal Administration failed tD do, and if the hon. member will tell me that the duplication of railways is not a good thing-, when it is requirPd, I will admit that Mr. Holman is a l1ad financier. In ten yea,rs' time New South Wales will be benefiting from his action to·clay, and our friends opposite surely will admit that no concern ha8 paid d•Jring the first two or three years after its 'nception. If the New South Wales Government are carrying- out huge works for the years to come, in order to give better facilities to take stuff to market later on they will get the dividends. Does any shipping company pay dividends at first"! Does any meat company? Did the Queensland Meat Export Company pay dividends from the start? Did the Sydney " Daily 'Telegraph" pay dividends? It was ten ~·ears bAfore it became a payable proposition. It is the 5ame with all businesses. They have to be put on a sound footing, and probably it takes a number of years to ·organise them and make them payable. It is the same with State enterprises. New South \Vale~, has set out upon a Stat0 cnter·prise. What has Queensland done? Nothing whate,•,•r. The Treasurer's Statement is purelv an outline of the financial transactions for the Vf'ar-purel:v the advice of his offi-cials-a sbtement by his Under Secretary.

The hon. member could have gone away to the war and his Under Secretary could have issued the Statement, and it would have contained the same material. I am not saying that every other Treasurer has not done similarly. As a matter of fact, the Chief f:lecrctary thc other evening- admitted that in loan matters he was guided by his cxperts, and I take it that the Treasurer is also guided by his experts, and, consequently, we have a Financial Statement which is purely a statement of reyenue and expenditure, with a few comments made by the Treasurer.

The TREASURER: It is quite evident that you know nothing at all .about it.

:'vir. McCOR~.1ACK: It is quite evident that the hon. member will admit that he is guided by experts. The Financial State· ment details how many sheep and pigs there are in Queensland, vVe could get all that material in" Knibbs." Surely the han. member doeo, not tell us that he g-ot all that information out of h''J own little head! Of course, he did not; it is purely a t'ollection of facts based on the financial operations of the year. I take it that the Treasurer should have shown this House how his Government were responsible for the surplusfor the balance-sheet; then we would have had something- to go upon. He did not do that. The fault I find with the Statement is that it deals with details instead of showing us how far the Government were responsible for the position in which the Stat<l finds itself.

The TREASURER : The fault you find with it is that there is not sufficient in it to criticise.

Mr. McCORMACK: I do not think the hon. member could criticise a real balancesheet. I knew before how many pigs and bullocks we have. I knew how many hens we have in Queensland. \Ye could find that all in " Knibbs," and, told by the Treasurer, it carries no more weight than it does in "Knibbs." The Statement is purely figures c•Jllccted b0• his experts. :'\ow, the 'l'rea· surer arrived at a surplus by taking a great deal of money for the sale of land. If the hon. member were to apply those methods to his own business and sell portion of it every vear, I know that in time there would be no business at all. And that is what this Liberal Gov<emment are· doing-. Last year the rewnue from land was £943,135. Of that amount, almost half was money received from selectors for land which is in process of alienation-revenue that will never recur. The hon. member knows quite well that once land is sold by the State to the selector, a certain portion of the purchase value is gradually being paid off, and that revenue will never recur to the State.

Mr. E. B'. C. CoRSER: It will go on making earning-s for the railways.

JY1r. McCORMACK: No doubt, the hon. member will admit ihat when VIe have sold all of it we shall have to put on a land tax. I maintain that the sum of £439,738 was rccciv<'d in payment for land in process. of a[i,•nation and that oannot be recurrmg revenue. 'That is ono 'ivay of arriving at a surplus. The amo'lnt received from pastoral and other leases, on the other hand, amounts to almost a similar amount.£347.164. The GovNnmcnt have not sold that land at all. They cere now receiving from the leasing- of that land in the ·west

Mr. McCormack.]

1526 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

as much in the form of rent a& will amount in ten y·ears to what they were ,getting when they were selling the title of the land altogether. I cannot underst<tnd how any Government, whether Liberal or Labour, ean sell the land of the State lik·e they are doing.

Mr. E. R C. CoRSER: We have 400,000,000 acres.

Mr. McCORMACK : There is an end to everything. Because other countries have got rid of the public estate, why should we do it? Here we have in the House men who are .admitted Libe~als, like the hon. member for Murrumba, calling attention to the increased amount earned by our leasehold land. Why should we sell a thing when we can receive almost as much from the pastoral leaseholds, and the land still remains the property d the State? The other land becomes private property, and the State has no more interest in the increase in its value caused by the :;pending of large sums of public money. Vihy should the State sell land when it has sueh a good proposition as that, and the Minister for Lands will agree that it is a good proposition to retain that land in the West instead of selling it as they did years ago. Why, then, should they sell it at all'!

}fr. E. B. C. CoRBER: To get population on it.

Mr. McCORMACK : The hon. member should know very well if he studied land matters that big compani~s to secure big grants of land never, hy any moans, sell their land to freeholder•. The big land company in Tasmania and the company in :"Jew South \Vales have n. system of lease· hold. Does it stop the farmers from producing .as many potatoes as if the land was their own?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : It rtoppcd thc;n in youl' father's country---Ireland. (Laughter.)

Mr. McCORMACK : The hon. member does not know where mv fatlJer came from. He wa3 a native of Victor'ia. (Laughter.) Anyhow, the hon. member is unfortunate in quoting us Ireland as an ideal place of land laws. He knows that the iand svstem there was not the system advocated by 'the Labour party. It is freehold, land held bv big landlords, who took if from the people of Ireland, and did not buy it. Even in Queensland they do pay 2s. 6d. an acre, but in Ireland they took it fr·:J!n th1> people. Do they sell to the tenants? ~\)o fear ! The State is different from .a private owner. I contend that the State should be the landlord, instead of selling land to private persons, instead of allowing them later on to use it in share farming or some other scientific system ''"hich the Liberals cnconrar:'P. I believe th'lt the land shoctld b~ held by the State for usc and not for s;,e~ulation. The leasing svsh•m '':ill allow tlw State to get the benefit of the um·n•1ed increment. Who should gd thP unearned increment? Should ~he owner of a piece of property get the mneasPd value of that property which is brought about by populatio 1? Gan anvhodv

in this vear 1914 sa v that the [4.30 p.m.] people "·ho have the foresight

to acquire land in the carlv d1ws are 0ntitled to the enhctnced value which tl;e incrcasf' o£ population g-ives to that land? It is argued that the Queemland National Bank maci0 their block of land at the corner

[Jfr. M~:Cornzack.

of Queen and Creek street worth .£80,000. But we know that the people who came to• Brisbane and worked in the factories and offices and other places, and produced material, are the people who made that block worth .£80,000; and they have no say with regard to the unearned increment on that block. Surely the hon. gentleman will admit that the bank only r!id its share-no more than anybody else wno lives in Brisbane-towards increasing the value of that property. We know \ ery w'.'ll that in America, where railway comrames have the administration of land, thev do not build lines into big cities where the land is already freehold. Not at ail; they build new seaports and new villages.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : I know that where thev have the option of taking a leasehold tenure they will not take it.

l\1r. McCORMACK: If we allow every individual who wants to ;peculate in Queensland to decide what is right or wrong with regard to land administration, where shall we be? Because somebody wants to get a lar"e arPa of land at 7s. 6d. an acre, so that he mav sell it again at .£10 an acre, should that· be the policy of the Government? Such an individual wants private railways, but the people of the Shte do not "·ant private railways. If there arc suffi~icnt farmoro in the country. they should s' nd farming representatives to this Chamber. I cannot understand them electing gc,tlcmen who misrepresent them. and call tlwmsclves the farmers' party. The hon. member for 7\Iarrumba said he <'ould not understand how farnwrs could vote for thE' Labour party. I cannot unde;·stanr~ how farme>rs < J,n vote for the manag1n.c;:· duector of a big ,;hipping comp;,n:. who make their rri011PV bv carrvinit farmers' produce, and who han; incrp~ .. ed. frpight., by 30 per cent. during the last few years. I do hope tha! the farmers will wake up and elect farmer·, rcpresf'ntativcs, and not send gPnt1emnl to this House who misrepresent them. The;·e is anothe-r matter I wish to touch upon m c0m1cction with th' Lands Department. and that is tlw deetrudion of timber in Queenslend. \V,_ find that in tho Lands Department ren•nue which the GoYcrnmPnt blow so much Hbout there is an amount of £66,346 lOs. from rovaltiPs and timber licenees. If the dPpartnt~"!lt is adrnini">tered in future as it is now t._drninistered, this sonrre of revenue· will soon become exhau .. ted. \Vhat i· .. being done v.rith r~gard to r0affon·station? Nothing. The de partmont are allowing thl Queensland Pine Company to destroy thousands _of tree' v;ithcmt making any arrangement with them w!wrebv thev shall be rcqui1·ed to replant a certain .. an a c.cch vear. In the Atherton district th<'v . are siinnlv ',". asting timber. I doubt ver•· much whether Que0nsland will be lwtiT off bv sett-ling that district as it is being :·ettled or bv rf'toinin,- it as a timber r .. 'E'l'YP. In the l1Imber centre· of America tlw big lumbr·r < ·Jmpa .. nies arc forced by the Stat• to rep],Lt a CPrtain ~rea of land eve~'.)' venr. British Columbia aleo forces the btg iumber companies who are taking away the iimbcr to P''Y a royalty. and in addition t.o renlant a C'crtain acreJ.ge eve-rv year. It JS m~rvrllous wh.·;.t nn amount 0f timb0r they have in Amerin-OreP,"on pin0 aad Douglas fire. They have such quantit;c'S chat they c n f:J:>nd timber hen., and under''ell our own timber merchants after paying fr0ight f~·om \merica to Quocnsbnd. If the Amoncan Governments find it lF'f -·'" ny v-, insert

Supply. [27 0CTOBEH,] Supply. 1527

in their timber conce,,sions a provision reqmrmg lumber c0mpanies to replant so manv acres with trPes every year, we ought certainlv to do something of the kind in Queensl[md. It is done in France and in all the older countries of the world. \Ve arc alwavs told that Queensland is a new country and that consequently, there is no necessity to take O:ction in the same direction as action is taken in Germanv and other countries where the population is dense. We shall find that in a few years the timber resources of the world will be almost depleted. and yet in Queensland we are _doing nothing whatever to replant areas whiCh have been denuded of timber. The result will be that, in a very short time, we shall have to import all the timber we requir<>, and then how will the Treasurer get his £66,346 from timbPr revenue? How will the Treasurer twentv years hence make ends m0et if he has not this revenue from timber?

The SECRETARY FOR PuBI.IC LANDS : Oh, he will haYe "Jme timber.

Mr. McCORMACK: Then the hon. gentleman will have to alter his method of adrainistration. ,

The SECRETARY FOR Pc-BLIC L.\XDS : ::\' o.

~,1r. McCOR::VIACK : Even the landowners in the Atherton district are destroying valucble timber, a.s they have not the facilitie' for g2tting that timbe1· to market. Silky oak and some of the bc't timbers of the world &re being burned off in that district, simply b£'ca use there are no n1eans of transporting the timber to profitable markets. Certainly tho administration of our timber rc'our~es is one thing upon which the GoYern"w;>t can be fairly criticised. Tho Trea.surer diC! not. tell us anything about the depletion of ~ur national resources; he told us about eggs and the price of b:'lloch.. )mt did not dc:al with any of the b1g qu<··.twns that reqmre some action on tho part of the Government. The othPr evening the Premier stated that in a. time of trouble like tho present Australia should manufacture a lot of stuff

hich to-day she imports. \Y c produce the ra1v n1atorial, send it to another country, and then reimport it, giving the other fellow all the benefit of the skilled labour necessary for its manufac-ture. It was very pleasing to hear a Libera.! PrcmiPr make a statement like that to which I han> refc>rred, and it is interesting to inquire what the Government have done to carrv out the view he enunciated. I propose "to show hm·\" far the GoYernnlC'nt ha ,~e gone to1va.rd~ carrying out what the Premier stated was the policy of the Gon'rnment. \Vhat have the:c done in the past in th<' direction of encouraging nutuufactnres? Nothing IYhateYPr.

The TRE·\SC:RER: Not correct.

~Ir. ::YlcCOR:.:IACK: It is correct.

The TREASrRER: What about locomotives nnd IYa.tor-pipes?

Mr. ::YlcCORMACK: Tho hon. gentleman would han' i"Ot them from Germany last year i: he could have do!ll~ so.

The TRK\STTRER: No; J'lU are hard up for un argu1nent.

Mr. 11cCOR}IACK: :1\o; I am not ha.rd up for an argument. If the hon. gentleman will inquire he will find that most of the

machinen- in a dredge ordered many was made in Glasgow dredges given 'atisfaction?

Tho TREASURER: Absolutely.

from GerHave the

Mr. McCORMACK: In certain kinds of material. Is the machinery satisfactory ?

Tho TREAS!IRER: Absolutely.

Mr. McCORMACK: Are the boilers satisfactory?

The TREASURER : Y e".

;);Ir. McCORMAUK: One of the Briti·h Trade Uommissioners, Sir Rider Haggard, was quite interested to find that we had imported a dredge from Germany1 but that the principal part of the mach1_nery "as made in Glasgow. \Vhon he vlSlted the dredge in my district . and !law tl:at, he said no doubt Australia beheved m preferential trade with the mother country. \Vhat have the pre<ent Government done to encourage local manufacture? . Ther have done nothing at all in that d_ll'ectwn. A Liberal Government has been m power m the Uommonwealth for several yea_r>, :>nd thcv have done nothing in that d1rectwn. \Ye" haH' had a Labour Government in pow!'r for thre<· years; let us hope that they ~ill! do what th'l Liberal Governments have fa1,ed to do--that is, encourage our manufactures and put on a tariff against over .. ea goods of e\·erv class. Our mines produce r~ w material" which i··· sent to European ?ountnes to be manufactured, and nnmedmtely a crisis like the present one occurs .we fi;1d tha.t our mining industry is at a standstill, because we were dependent upon Germany. \Vhv cannot we manufacture tinplate, copper goods. and such oth-er things in Australia? If private cnterpriw which we he3:r so ;nuch about, has failed to do its duty m th1s _re; gard, why should not the S~ate step m. The country we arc at war w1th to-day ?as shown us how to encourage State enterpnse. Did thev depend upon the private enterprise of individuals to build up the powerful nation that Germany is to-day? ::\'ot at all; thPy adopted State socialism, and whr_re 'Jrivate imb-iduals did not develop an m~lustrY the Government ca.me forward and dc,·eloped it. What is to prevent ~he Queensland Government doing somethmg like that? The Go\ ernment hnd to close the Botanic Gardens at night because they could not import the carbon noce'sar,r. for the lamps. Is not that a poor cm;chtwn for. a countr~- like Queensland t? b? m? . I notwe that Kew South \Vales 1s 1mporb~g ef?gs from Germany~that egg :vo!k _is bemg nnportcd into Australia. ThiR IS the ~tat_e \vherc the Governnwnt tells you that 1t IS gidng you good admin~stratio:1. Why cannot the Government enter mto tlns busm<'f· ?

A GOVER!-l~IENT ::\I[E:>~BER: P2cause they are better employed.

2\Ir. }1cCORMACK : The hon. member '·· ho interjoJcts, I admit, -:·ould be better employed in la~·ing eggs lnmsclf. (L~ughter.) Tlw fact remaius thrat egg yolk was Imported into L\ustralia last } ear.

The PREMIER: Into Kew South 'Yales.

::\lr. :'\IcCORMACK : The Premier inte;·jccts that it v·as in Now South \Vales, ~nt If :'\ew South \Yalcs had not been mentioned during this clebate there ''auld _he hardly any of the <khat'l ldt at all, 0spccJall~- so far as the speakers on +he other side ar0 concerned.

Mr. McCormack.]

1528 Supply. [ASSE~1BLY.] Supply.

\Vhy do not the Government do something in regmd to helping manufactures in this State? If the Government had harnessed the Barron F<11ls, or some of th,· other waterfalls that we have in :1'\orth Queensland, they could have saved the importation of £140,000 worth of calcium of carbi·de into Australia. \Ve have the necessary electrical power up Korth to manufacture calcium of carbide. and yet we import th<J.t large quantity from Germany, Xorway, Sweden, and Belgium.

The PRE~!!ER: The Federal Government refuse to give the neccs~c.ary duty.

:\ilr. McCOR:YlACK: I quite admit that. Tho Federal Government must put on a protective duty. I am dealing nov, with tho future. In the p ,t the Federal Government did not know the use tha.t carbide was going to be in Australia, or that it would be such an increasing quantity. I am told that to-day £40 per ton is a•,ked for carbide.

1\:Ir. E. B. C. CoRSER: Xo; £28 per ton.

:Hr. :YicC.:Olt:YL\.CK: I was told that £,;o per ton was asked for it in the hon. gentleman's el€ctorate of Maryborough. In the Barron Falls we have all th€ power that we require to establish a number of manufactures in tho Cairns dictrict. \Ve can g€t a n1a.rkct ::-traight a vi ..t~,- for carbide as .soon as the Federal Government gives the ncc€ssary protection. Tho el€ctricity that can be prorlucNl by harncsBing the Barron Falls will pro,ide a handsome return to the Government fot· any money expended there. Right along the Chillagoe Railway there are some of the finest limestone deposits that can be found in any part of the world. So. the propo,,ition to manufacture calcium of <.arbide by harnc,.,ing the Barron Falls is a good one. Then there are three biv, sugarmills in tho district which will usc the power from the Barron Falls plant. Cairns Town Council will underbkc to lig·ht the streets of Ca.irns \Yith it, and they < :1n also run trame at a chLap rate with the aid of this power. :1Ir. Carin. in his report of about eight or nine year,; ago, mentioned a number of industries that could be started by g·onerating the el<'ctrical power hom the Barron Falls, which he said could be used for a distance of 30 milcc around Cairns. Since then we havo had another new sugar-mill on·ctcd and a n'1111ber of sawmills. ·Instead of sending awa:-- the logs in the rough, we would then be ahle to send awav dressed timbe,-. Anvone who knmn anything about the generation of olectricitv from waterf.:dls will know the difference ti1ero i' in the co.;t as comparNl \Yith the cost per horse power where coal is used. In come of the 'States of Americt which I visitnd last '·ear, I passed through several emall towns where th€v g·encrat ·Ll Plc-dricity from a small waterfafl near the tO'o\n. The motive power \\as provided at a cheap rate, and they not only lig·ht-~d the town, but tlwy ha·d trams of their ovm, and one or two manufactures. If the Govcrnm0nt want to do anything to assist the unemplo:vtcd at the present tim€, here is a scheme which will turn out a good proposition, and will return interest and redemption on the mane;.· invested. The Statement savs that tlw Go:,.crnment have done everything tlwy can do to help the agriculturists. I must admit that the present Secretary for Agriculture' is working very hard for his department. <J.nd no doubt he has done some

[Jf r. ·McCormack.

good. In fact. he is tho best ~Iinister of ~-'l.griculture that we have had. Tho Premier, ,, hen speaking, said that the Government were out to help the sugar-farmers to produce n1ore sugar. 'rhis is quite ne\v to rne. It \vas onlv the other dav that we had to have a ten:ible fight with· the Government to make them keep their promise to build a sugar-m~ll at · Babinda. The pre'ont Government drd oYcrvthin g they could to dodge the issue, and 'to get out of buil·ding that mill.

The SECRicTARY FOR Pc:BLIC LA::-.!DS: No.

Mr. McCORMACK: Of course, they did. They did everything they could _to get out of building a mill there.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt;Bf,IC LANDS : They only wanted it on a satisfactory basis.

Mr. ~1cCORi\'1ACK: The basis was the 1911 Act, which they passed th€mselves. \Vhat other basis could there be? The evidence that the mill should be built was provided by the report of the Sugar Commission. What more did they want? If thev had .adopted the commission's report they would build mills at Da~rigi, Babinda, anci South Johnstone, in their turn.

Tho TREASURER: One mill is nearly completed now.

Mr. McCORMACK: Yes, owing to the fight that was put up to make the Government keep their promise. \Ve were not asking for anything new; we were onl_Y asking the Government to keep thmr promise.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA;,DS : \V e wanted to know what the Federal Government were going to do.

• ::\1r. ::\1cCOR::Y1ACK: The Premier said that the Babinda proposal must be treated on its merits, and must not be taken as a precedent that the other mills would be built. Why did the Premier agree to the building of the Babinda Mill? It was because there "as a Federal election approaching. The Cairns poop!€ were putting up a big fight for the Babinda Mill, and asking the Government to carry out their promise. The Premier was forcncl into the position of agreeing to build the mill, or to refuse to do so in the face of a Federal election, and thereby create enmity against his Government on the part of the sugar farmers in Queensland. He decided that he would go on with that particular mill, but would treat it on its merits. As to whether the Gov€rnment are helping the farmer, we know that the han. member for J3urrum introduced a Bill to g€t bettor prices for tho cane grown by the farmers. But the Government policy is against fixing prices, and we find the Premier coming along with a co-operative sugar Bill to remedy the very thing that the hon. member for Burrum was trying to remedy with his Cane Price Boards Bill. Will this co-operative Bill remedv it? Those who know anvt.hing about the 'sugar business believe that there is no bnsines.s in the Bill at all.

The TRE.\SURER: You will se.o.

Mr. McCORMACK: I do not like to prophesy, but I am certain that not one mill will be taken over from the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, from Drysdales, or anybodv €lse on account of this Bill. and not one· mill will be erected in districts where

Supply. [27 OcTOBElt.l Supply. 1529

these companies have mills operating at the present time. The Treasurer knows that he is only throwing dust in the eyes of the farmers in introducing that Co-operatiw Sugar \Vorks Bill. There is no business in it at all.

The TREASURER: You will get the greatest surprise of your life before long.

Mr. McCORMACK : Are the Government prepared to pay £300,000 or £400,000 for Drysdales' mill ? DoE'~ he think that the Drysdales, and other proprietary mills, have not secured themselves against the operation of such a Bill as this? What is the use of trying to throw dust in the eyes of the farmers? The Colonial Sugar Refining Company are certain to have agreements with all the farmers in connection with a certain amount of land within tho area of the mill.

The TREASURER : Before many weeks are over, you will regret the speech yon are r~v0. n~aking.

cdr rdcCGH:\L\CK: The Treasurer may ha.-e some scheme to take over some ramshackle mill in the district of the hon. member for Bm·rum, and to pay a fabulous price for it. I quite ac;lmit that the Bill will be good for new areas. It would enable tho farmers in a new area to club together and pay their share to get a new mill.

But it is not as good as the [5 p.m.] central mill system, and is not

as good as the 1911 Act. So, why should the farmer at Freshwater or South Johnstone, or anywhere else, part with the 1911 Act to welcome this measure, where he has to find one-third of the money? Of course, it is not as good a proposition as the 1911 Act. The hon. gentleman surely admits that !

The TREASURER: It is to de<tl with another set of circumstances.

:\Ir. :\IcCOR:\lACK: 'T'his otlwr 'Ot of circunF"tanres is H amblcdon, for instance. I-Iamb!~clon is one of the mills where there hac, been a g-cnd d~~l of trouble over the price of cane'. The Burdekin is anoth.'r placP. Do<'' the hon. gentleman thir,k ho can buy t1to;:;r• n1i11.-·, or start in opposition to them 1 Of rolil'Sf', he cannnt. It is taking him all hi' tinw to sncc0'•"fully manage the few 1niJls he no:-.:.7 ha~ under his control.

The TRE\SrRER: He was vprv fortunate in settlinQ' the di!lkultv in the Burdekin to the adYallt-c ge of the gl_.o\vers.

::'.Ir. :\IcCOR:\L\CK: To the qdvantage of tbc InknrnHlll Est:-Jh~.

Tlw TRE.\~FRER: :\To.

}Jr. :\JcCOR::\IACK: There is no business in this Bill. and on even occasion the GoVf'rnnwnt have attempted to block betterment to famH'rs. They ende 'Vonr to get the supp.>rt of th8 farmer by introducing bogus n1easurt .,, but when a real measurC' < a.me along that had the basis of a good measurr-"-hich had for its object the fixing of price,; incspective of all other ties the cornpani:_<:; haYe over the1n novv-what did the Government do? Turned it down. TheY told us they could not fix pricf's, and in tho next ~e~-,ion th~?-y came along '" ith a Food Prices 'BilL 'r.d ha v<:> since been fixing the price of every commodity under the suu.

The hon. gentleman told us it was impossible to fix prices and the hon. member for Toowong said 'the fixing of prices shattered eyery plank in the Liberal platform.

Mr. BEBBD!GTON: \Ve ar;' going to fix the price now and give the farmers the whole of it.

Jilr. l\IcCOR::\1ACK: The hon. member is au authority on co-operation, but it is " wildcd " co-operation. If I could not make a better job than the hon. member drd t;f the ::\Iura.rric bacon factory, I would lea.-e rt alone.

Mr. DEBBIXGTOX: I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Mr. McCOKYIACK: When the hon. member stated tho other evening that the way to repay borrowed money was to borrow m,Jre money, I thought he must have been the financier of that company. Tho hon. member does not know the mr ming of cooperation. Co-operation, in his 1nind, means the crc-ttincr together of a number of em· ploye~·s, gettini State aid for their; industry, and emploving a number of men cO do the ,. ork wl1o are not in the co-operation at all. True co-operation is t?o co-opcrat~on of !ill the people enga<oed m tho partiCular mdnstrv. dividing up amongst thc'mselves the whole profits of the industry. Could anyone irnagine the hon. member for Drayt_o~1 agre~incr to allow his workmen to participate m th~ profits of the industry?

l\Ir. BEllBINGTO::-r : \V e pay them sufficient wage

The TREASL'RER: Like the co-operative store.

:\lr. :McCOR:\IACK: TlH're is a great deal of difference between co-operation in production and co-operation ir; distribution. Tlw hem. member knows nothmg about cooperation, although he may know ~omething about cornering cheese. Co-operation un~er the Sugar \Yorks Bill is not true co-operatiOn nt ~II; it is co-opo1·ation amongst a set of indi,-iduals. 'I'ha other night tho bon. men;lwr said that ,onr< members of the OpposJtion never produce anything, and that some ,·1en oe1 farm-; would have bent back, growin rr fruit for Horne men1hc:rs on this side of th~ Chamber. That is the hon. gentleman's conception nf it. The man who works for a farmer on w<Lges, and who gets a bent back~ haf as 1nuch say in the production as tho man v ho employs him, and a good deal nlOl'O in son1c instances.

Mr. BEllBIXGTOX : He soon earns enough to stMt for himself, which you '.vii! never be abh, to do

?.h. McCORl\L\CK: The hon. member said that some members on this side never proclucecl anvthing, and tha~ statement was " hear. h0ared " by a lot of lawyers and other ·people on the front 1'reasur:r. bencl_I, who m•n•r eire! one useful days work m thmr lives.

1\Ir. E. B. C. CoRoER: That is rough on your leader,

l\11'. 1\IcCOR:lYIACK: I am not referring to mv leader. I say the Home Secretary, the 'I'rcasurt ''· and tho Premier-men all engaged in bminess. buying a thing for 1s .. and selling it for 2s. if they get the opportumty" hoar. lwared" a st .. 1~emcnt like that. Any number of men on this side of the House have don0 some real production, and it is

Mr. 1!1 cC ormack.]


unfair and unparliamentary for any member• to make a statement like that made by the hon. member for Drayton. .

The TREASURER : You never produced any wealth.

Mr. McCORMACK: If the hon. gentleman has produced some wealth, more credit to him: but hon. members on this side have done the sam" and yet the hon. mc·nber "hear, heared" the statement made by the hon. member for Drayton.

The TREASURER: If you say you h<tvc Jll'o· duced eo me wealth, I will " hear, hear " that.

Mr. McCORMACK: I believe I have produced as much wealth as the hon. gentleman, but I do not think I have accumulated as. muc~ wealth. After all, if every person 111 thrs world onlv retained that which he produced himself, he would not have much mon0v. In order to become wealthy he must retain some of the wealth produced by somebody else, and I hn.ve not done that, while the han. gentleman has. That is the only difference between us. (Hear, hear!) I would like to have one or two word· on railways before I sit down, and I would like to mention that the Railwa;v Dcpartn1cnt havC' too many lines under construction at the one time. I do not want them particular! v to concentrate in m v electorate, but I ;·vould like the Government to e•Jncontrate their efforts on one or two lines and r arry them to the stage when thev will be productive. That has not been done and .. .c e_ no1v have in ~2ueenslancl a nurnbt~{· o_f eng111N~rs and surveyors engaged upon little jobs when theY :·hould be employed upon big jobs in or;der to g·pt them completed. I would like to Se><' the Government push on the ::'\ orth Coast line and connect Mackay with Rockhampton. That line goes throuvh good c~ttle country v.here large numbers of cattle would be produced and at the same time it would enable th~ Govcr'!ment to compdo w_ith the shipping compa_m_es. I am not go111g to growl at the ::\[umter for Railways for giving through 1 atPs. I hope he will give through rates, an~ enable the people on the coast to get their produce to market, no m.•.tter if it docs come to Brisbane. It is recognised all over the world that it is a handicap to the people in the district to have two ends of a line boin~;- built slowly. When the line is eompleted it will give an impetus to the ~arn_ing~ of the. ~a]way Department through ,rafhc, 111 adchtwn to tho settlement along ,he route, ''Pel it will be a guod thing for Queensland If the Govprnmcnt would concentrat·c upon that job. The coastal railwavs have ab a-cs paid, and anv railway that w!ll open up llP\:Y country is a good Proposition and should be prosecuted at a time like the p!Y-ent, when there is a goc,cl deal of unemployment. I would also li!w to haye a >Yord about the :,IcKePn cars, beeause. when I was in Chica:co la.;t vear, I made it mv businr-;..~ tJ gE't so1nc illforrr, :1tion in regard h thm;e c u·., 'I'h0 McK('en <':us were being mentiOned e\ cry day when I left here last YC{I\ and nn inquiries in Ch:k·1go I found that the JVfcKe0n carJ were admi•tedlv a faihnc thrPe or fou1· yctrs before th0y \Vere purchased by Mr. 'I'hallon. and numbers of them had b0en sidetracked in Chicago and placed on the scrap-heap. Thev were too ccc.tJy to run. That shmvs tliat in two instanc(•s--that is. with the McKeen cars and

[Jfr. 3fc(/ormack.

the dredge-! still think the Government made a mistake in regard to the dredge, as I still think the Government could have purchased it a good deal cheaper.

'I'he TREASURER : You know more than the experts of the department.

Mr. McCORMACK: The E-xperts of the department make mistakes, and it is rather remarkable that these two mistakes have been made. · There is laxitv somewhere, and it is the dutv of members-of Parliament to mention these thing~ wht'n they find out what is taking place, The dredge has done· fairly good work in C>:irns, _but the construction of the dredge Itself IS faulty. The boilers are bad The dredge has been twice to Brisbane during the past tweh-e months to be put in repair.

The TREASL'RER: That is not true. She> called here on her way up.

Mr. McCORMACK: Has she never visited here since?

The TREASURER : She may be on her way down now.

::\Ir. ::\IcCORl\1ACK: She is in the dock now.

The TREASURER : Th,at does ll•Jt say she is faultv in construction. ::\Ianv of the harbour boards have mado the mista-ke of their lives in not putting their dredges into doGk regularly.

:VIr. J\IcCORJ\IACK: I hold that the Government should have got more information about the d1·edge; th<'y should han· gone to Emdand or Scotland.

The SEuFrARY FOR PuBLIC LAxns : They invited tenders at those places.

J'\Ir. J\IcCORJ\IACK: \Yore r•ot >ome of the tenders from Glasgow lower than the German tenders~ I distincth· remember the Trea~urer stat in~,- that it \vas b, ~'~au~"e of a certain method of dealing with silt that this dredg-e wa' selected. That is the only reason why i:he dredge should have been bought at all.

The TREAS1'RER: i\fr. Cullen \vent home, and reported that she was the most suitable dredge for the particular work we had in view. Other dredge' got the silt in, but it would have had to be dug out.

::\Ir. :\lrCORJ\IACK: There is one particular German patent in the dredge which, no doubt, is not in other dredge'; but I hold there arc British-made dredges that can do equally as good work, a;;d if we bcli(we in encouraging British Pntcrprise 've should <rive our work to Briti:.h firms.

The bell indicated that the hon. momber"s time had cxpirl'rl

-:\L-. TROL!T (Enogycra): I am very pkaHed to have the opportunity of '"aying a few ':;ords on this very important debate. I woul-d like first to cong-ratulate t:1e Treasurer on his Financial St,:tt0munt. and also the people of Queensland for having their affaiB in such safe hands. !Hear, hear !) It is most gr.atifying to know that we are not to have anv incrc,ued t,cxation, and that railwa~· freights and fares are 10t to be interfered with. I am sorry to know that the Government have not beer! able to see their ,,"\'ay clear to give tb{' autmnatic incre'ttses to public senants, us I am sure they \\-ould

Supply. [27 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1531

have ·done if it had not been that we are face. t;-, face. with perhaps one of the greatest mternatwnal wars the world has even seen.

The TREASURER: I hope we mav be able to do that even yet. (Hear, hear!)"

Mr. TROUT: I hope the Government will b0 a.ble to do so, because we know that there arc teachers and others who look upon these '1!creases exactly as an apprentice looks upon h1s mcreases-that he IS entitled to them. I am perfectly satisfied that the public servants generally in Queensland have sufficient confidence in the Government to know that at the first opportunitv thev have thev will not neglect their demand. ·They knm~· that they are ,,,afe in the hands of the GovPrnment. I am also satisfied that the sound position that we are in goes to show that we have practical men at the head of affairs, not experimentalists, but men of business and experience. I do not quite agree with the Hon. the Trca-urer in his estimate in regard to the sum of money he is likely to derive in the way of income tax. My reason for thinking so is that I believe that there are many business people in Queensland who have not had as successful a year as they have had in tbe past. The only },alanC{'-sheet we have had before u;; recently is the balance-shPet of a grocery business of some importance in Brisbane, and I have no rcasoa to sav that that business is not mana!i''d as well" as other businessee. Taking that as a. criterion, it p;oes to show that very little income tax is to be 0xpected from the grocers o£ Brisbane. It. of cour"'· has been ;;aid that the other section of the trade, that i-; th" butchers, have b0en nL•king large BUrns of rnoncy, alrnost huge fortunes, and that :· lot could be t>xpcctcd in that direction. I would ju.st like to refer to one or t'YO n1atters in connection 1.vjth it, and rny rC'ason fo1· being ~anxious to do so is that it is not only a qucAion of dan1aging a tuan politically where a stat0ment io made which is not in accordance' with the truth or is misleadirw. but it also means that it affects the char·1c' 1' of the individual or indiYiduals; and nn;,·lc as I might desirP to hand down to nl~' fanl.ih· i h(' honour couferre-d on rne hv th{) f'lcctor:S 'of Enog~era. I Yahw 1ny nan10 P\'Lll more thnn I valu0 that honour. (Hea.r, hear!) I have be-en in business, and thnre are other-;, \vho lwve been in busincf..;~ for krt:v vears in Brisbane. and the hon. member for Ithaca, before to-day, has sai·d in this Honse that t'icY· \Yere honourable men. In his '·JlPech in r'. "erencr' to the appointment "f tlw Control of Trade Boards, he is reported to hav'"' said--

" A,; a man who thorou~hl;~- understands the meat industrv I sav lwr<> that tho ruto.il prices <'harg.E J fo;. meat for 1nan:, 1nonths past has hocn considerab1y 1 li~ 1t0r 1han they s.llould huYe hec-n."

:\Jr. GrLDH: Hoar, hear!

::\ir. TROciT: The hon. U<'mlwr sa:-·s " Hea1·. lwnr": that is the lwn. member's text. And at the time he said that, Me"r·s. Baynes Brothers, ::\fr. Sparkr.s. ::\1r. P0ter :V1ackinnon 2\Ir. Bmstow, and c0vcral others ha•l d0clurr.d bdor0 the tribmnl that w .ts a"1pointed. th:.-.t. thcv had not n.adc one '"'nnY I sa· that if the han. nwmhcr has ~tate(!. the tru'h. th0n these men haYe perjnrerl theJn;-PlYr.". Yon cannot n1ake an;.~-

thing but two an<l two out of four. I take tho hon. member at his own value. I <Hn not going to say that he is not a capable manthat is for himself and others who know all about him to say. I regard him as a. man \Yho thoroughly understands the matter, a.nd if it had been anY other hon. member on the Opposition bench"es who did not understand then I would have taken no notice of it. But seeing that he understands it, and also that for his own purposes and for reasons best known to himself, he made that statement, I repeat that when the hon. member ·said that he knew that those other persons had o-iven that evidence. I am prepared, hefor~ I go anv further. to say that I will allow the hon. member for Leiehhardt-who, perhaps undf'rstands as much about the business as the hon. member who prof<,gses to· und!'rstand so much about it, and who years ago took a keen interest in the business and the welfare of the workers. and three other hon. members in whom I have implicit confidence--the hon. member for Maroc, the hon. member for Carnarvon, a.n<l the hon. member for Murrumba-to investigate my accounts and go into my books.

:Mr. BARBER: Oh, we do not want that.

11r. TROL:T: But I want it. (Hear, hear !) I want to give the hon. member an opportunity of proving '"hat he sa_:;s is cocrcct or praYing that what I say IS incorrect.

::Y1r. GILDAY: I will prove what I said is C'OlTf'C't.

Mr. TROUT: To prove whether ,,-hat the hon. member said is or is not correct, I have appointed or asked four. g·entlemen to investigate my books, and 1~ they prove that up to the 8th August thrs year Trout and Sons have made ls. in the business, then the hon. member is perfectly correct.

Mr. GILDAY: I will prove how the master butchers. and you at the head of them, have treated the people of Brisbane.

::Yfr. TROUT: It is not a. question of the master butchers.

11r. GILDAY: It has a lot to do with the master butchers. They ha. ve been fleecing people for years.

:Mr. TROUT: I am only dealing with the hon. member's speech, and I hope that I am trying to do it fairly. He is not giving me a verv fair deal. He spoke when I was absent, and when I am speaking and he is present he does not want to allow me to go on. So far as the Master Butchers' Association is concerned, Mr. Jenning is presidf'nt, and I have not been president of that association, nor have I taken an active part in it since I became a member of the House. Perhaps it will be said that there was no occasion for mt! to go so far in this matter, but when it is a matter of a man's character, it is about time he stood to his guns. (Hear, hear!) I wish to read a lett2r from Messrs. Wilson, Danby, and Ft>rrcs, public accountants. When first I came into this House I rBalised that the duties that would· fall t0 mo were such that to keep in touch with my m>n .affairs would be impossible, and these are the people who have been acting for me sinc2. The letter i" as follows :-

"In accordance with vour request, WB certify that we have, f;·om information

Jfr. Tmrt.l I

1532 Supply. [ASSE:\IBLY.] Supply.

supplied by your bookkeeper, comp!etcd the books of your butcherrng busmess from the 1st January, 1910, to 28th De· comber, 1912, and those of R. Trout :md Sons from 29th December, 1913. to 8th August, 1914. During those periods w, prepared at intervals of about one month approximate trading accounts showing the profit or losJ made on your lirading. . . .

" \V e further cort1fy that, m the ord1· narv course, we prepared R. Trout and Sons' trading account to 8th August, 1914, which shows a loss was made between 27th December, 1913, and 8th August, 1914."

Mr. FIHELLY: Is this autobiography? Mr. TROUT: It ma:r not be that which

suits the hon. member for Paddington(hear, hear !)-but it is that which I find neces,.ary to bring forward to this House for the purpose of showing that statements have been made tltat are misleading, damaging·. and hurtful to any person \vho hm1 the k< en p,ense to be hurt. (Hear, hear !) The hen. member has 'aid that for several months past tho price of moat has been consideral>ly higher tlLcn it should haYe boon. During those months tho value of the average householder's account out of 480 accounts in

Brisbane has been 6s. 3~d. per [5.30 p.m.] week; that is to say, that meat

had to be delivered to 100 customers fm· ·a trifle oYel' £30. If vou take an average of three to the family; for tho monthe n,entioned by the hon. member, it did not amount to 4d. per unit per day. Could the prices then have been very high? The hon. member also talked about the Master Butchers' Association. Is the han. member a\\ are that there have been three failm·es, or compl'omi.,es, during the last few months? Is he aware that the competition was so keen that one firm went insolvent-or, rather, assigned their estate, 1vhich is an act of insolvency-for" something like £3.000? That i·c, how our husinras has been going on. The' hon. member went to the trouble of tabulating a list of prices, and compared rhe booking prices charged by the butchers of Brisbane with the cash price'' charged at Rf'dbank for ,,-hat is known ao '' rej(cts." ?\o doubt, a n1arked change has eon1e over tlw hon. lll')rnber, inasrnuch a;-i hr is now the champion of big companies. For reasons b.•st known to himself, he has thoronghly advC'rtised the monopolist,;, and has spoken in 2·lmving tenns of the alleged tru::,t ,,~the persons who he at one tin1e eondemnei as trusts.

:\-11'. GILDW: Is it not a fact that the master butchers bought out that particular firm because they were selling meat at ld. per lb. cheaper than they were selling it?

:\Ir. TROUT: I am saying that a big ,<;hange has come over the hon. member. A few months ago tho han. member was going about with a big book under his arm trying to get on the nerves of people by his remarks in connection with the alleged meat trust. The first book the hon. member had was called "'rhe Greatest Trust in the ·world," and tho next book was one written bv some person in C\1elbourne. He wanted to make people believe that meat companies were great octopuses, and that we hac! not the J'Cl11Gt est ide> of the injurv theY were going to do to the State. W'hat do ,\·c find now?

Mr. GILDAY: Are you feeling it?

[Jir. Trout.

Mr. TROUT: J\'o; but the han. member is feeling it. He has had quite .a different tune to play lately. If you meet the hon. member now he will tell you that it is marvellous the machinery they have down there; that they take a sheep's head and cut it as level as a die, take out the brains, and do everything in excellent style.

:Mr. GILDAY: That is correct.

J.~1r. TROV1': I do not say that it is not correct; I am simply showing the differ<:'nce in the han. member's attitude now ~ompared with what it was a little while acw. Tho hon. mcmbPr quoted Redbank, which is an ordinary sl;,•Jghter-yard, with up· to-elate shops in the city. If the public came to any butcher's slaughter-yard they would, no doubt he able to deal on the same lcl'el as 'tho lar;:;."r companies. The un· fortunate men in Brisbane v.-ho have to go to the· slano·htcr-T.trds are working· long hours and g.;'tting ·up much earlier than the hon. member would like to get up. Th~ han. member kno'.'; that such men as McKmnon and Barstow arc hard-working, indu~trious mon, and that if people went to their >laughter-yards they would not find an;v expensive upkePp going on there. It lB absurd to compare the meat sold h• the Redbank Compan;~· with the meat sold by the l>utchcrs of I3risbo.ne. who sell meat equal to nnv meat in Au·.tralia. \Yhat is the reason ih; h01i. mem!wr compared the Redbank Company "'ith the Rrisbaw• butchers?

Mr. GILDAY: What amount of meat did you pay them for?

:\1r. TROUT: It is no use the hon. member trving to pull me off the track, because he knows th.tt what I am saying is correct. When I spoke to a friend of the hon. member's and asked, "\Vhat does he ll!ean ?" that friend replied, "He really IS ~10t doing it for the purpose of strengthemng his position in It haoa." I said, " If he. is not doing it for the purpose <;>f strt;ngt~emng his position in Ithaca, he 1s domg 1t for the purpose of w<-akening_ my position, and for tho purpose of showmg ~h;,,t I am a dishonest man." Indeed, he '•a.ld that.

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : Oh, no !

Mr. TROVT: That is my point, and you can twist it as you like. The hon. member said, "As a man who thoroughly understa!'ds the nwat industry, I say here that the pr!C"S charged for meat for many months past ha·, e been ron· idcrabl;~- higher than thes should have been."

Mr. GILD.\Y: • Don't you say so, too?

Mr. TRO'CT: The hon. member does not understand it. (Opposition laughter.) My reason for saying that the hon. member does not understand it is that he has never had the pluck to go into the business. (Hear, hear!) If the hon. member wa!'ts to go into the business, he can go Into It now for £40. That is all the capital he requires. Taking the price of cattle at £1 lOs. or £1 12s. per 100 lb. at the Enoggera Salevards he can buy three beasts at £9 per he.0,d.' .and three times £9 is £27. He can also buY twelve sheep for £1 a piece. He docs not require any slaughter-yard, bee a use there are men who are willing to kill his she~p and clean them for £2 per week. It is as simple as falling off a log. {La,ughter.)

Supply, [::7 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1533

According to " Hansard," the bon. member said that the Brisbane butchers were charging 9d. per lb. for rump steak, while Redbank was charging only 6!d. per lb. \Vhat he did was to quote the butchers' booking prices and the Redbank cash prices. (Hear, hear!)

An HoNOURABLE MEMBER : Tricks of the trade.

::\1r. TROUT : It is not a queotion of tricks of tho trade. It may be ne<oessary to play such tricks in politics, but if that is necessary, I want no more of the game. (Hear, hear !) There are four mistakes in the hon. members figures as given in " Hansard." For the item "sirloin" he has £2 3s. 4d. and £1 13s. Sd., difference lls. Sd., whereas the difference should be 6s. Sd., a miscalculation of 5s. Then, for the item "top··.,ide" ho has 16s. 3d. and lOs., difference 16s. 3d., where:cs the difference should be 6s. 3d. In th0 item " chuck" ht· has made a similar mistake, and in four items he has made a mistake of £1 5s. If we take that amount from £4 18s. we h:we £3 13s. But those figures are not rfOa!ly correct, as the hon. member has compared the butchers' booking price, with Rodbank's cash price~, instead of comparing the cash prices in both cases. The difference on 414 lb. of meat, instead of being £4 18s., is £1 19s. 6d. \Yhat I want the hon. member to do is to get up in his place in this Housc--

:\Ir. GILD~L: I will do it; don't you forget that.

Mr. TRO'CT: I am not likelT to forget anything of that kind very easily. I want tho hon. member to get up and at least to admit that he was hitting below the belt when he quoted the butchers' booking priced as against the Redbank cash prices. This is not a party matter; it ir a matter of more importance than the hon. member thinksit is a matter in v hich some men have nothing to lose I have a character, and I am not going to lose it. (Hear. hear 1)

:\Jr. FIHELLY: Do vou sav the hon. member has not a chara~tor? •

Mr. TROUT: I do not; but I say I have a character, and it will take the hon. member for Paddington some years to gain the respect that I have gained. (Hoar, ho2~r !) The hon. member for Ithaca <tarted b~saying that the butchers were charging 9d. per lb. for rump steak--

The CHAIRMAN: Order! A great d0'1l of latitude is allowed hon. members on the Financial Statement, but I think the hon. member has had more latitude than has been allowed to any other member of the Committee. The matter the hon. member is discussing is one between himself and the hon. member for Ithaca, and I think it is hardlv one that should be brought up in the debate on the Financial Statement.

:\lr. TROLTT: I bow to your ruling, Mr. Chairman, as I alv. a:'s will do. \Yhnt I was 0ndcavourin~T, to do-and I think 'ou will hear a little with me in this--was to show that tho Treasurer, who anticipates a fair revenue from income tax this Y·' ar, w-ill not r "'C'Pive that 1noncy, because thr:ro are certain spctions nf tho tradinsr communitv 'vho ~j_r0 not rPcPivinrr the same ~nnonnt of illcom{? that ihev r~ccin;d last y<'ar. Knowing thRt sta(Pmcnts had heen mad0 in this House that

auld lead tho Treasurer to belin·<' that thc amount of income tax would be tho same. and

that he would receive the amount which the ( 'ommissioner for Incom.e Tax had diagnosed, I thought it was perfectly within my rights to point out that, so far as our trade is conccnwd, the contributions would not be the same. I have no wish to go further into that matter, as I will abide by your ruling. I have tried to make myself clear, and I hope I have made myself thoroughly understood, because this is a matter which mvsclf and others have felt very keenly. \Ve thought it was a pity that any hon. member should be allowed to take advantage of his position in this House to vilify the character of respectable busine.ss men. (Hear, hear;) I would liJn~ to know if I might say a word or two with regard to pric<e boards. I CPrtainly understood that I would han' an opportunity of touching upon these matters on the Financi-1 Statement. If not, then older m<·rnbers uf tho ~hsembly have misled me. because I took tho trouble to ask them if I might bri1:g these mattprs forv ;n·d, and thp;; told me I might. I u1ight point out that the meat traders of Brisbane reduced the price of mutton ~d. per lb. before the price boards nme into < "istence at all. \Y e took that aetion on our own account, and inh·ndcd to f!O ou in that wac.- from time to time. \\'ith your permission, i: would like to say a 'Yord or t\Yo about the caus0s of the high pricP-s uf meat. \\'hen spPaking some fc\v \YL'<>ks ago in this House I Fetid that it mattr red not \Yhat v. as the composition of the prices board, as all the board could do -.··as to regulate p. lc0s in accordance \Vith the price thP stock \Yas sold at. ~H that time cattle "·ore s<'lling at £1 2.·. ])Lr lOJ lb. The hon. mcmlv r for \':icl' Dav .,tid at th t time that it would 1J:' u go0<_1 thing to counnancleer the stock to S<'Ctn·c c~wap meat for th,' arn1y, anc1 1 robah!y fix a basi-, so that the rc0pl.· of (/·t· nusland v:ould ;:;ct clwa1>cr meat. I will ~6'< ' hon. n1cmber'"• an idea of what stor1,. is ~ ·lling L~, and th0~· V\'jJl SP(' IYhcthPT it is f""sil1lc to do any different to v hat the meat tr· c!Ns ar<' c!oin'g to-daY. I will takP one !inP of cattle submitted. lw the wcll-kJw,Yn r '<eeutrlrs of the late .J. T. "YI. B<·ll. of Coochin ( ~ooehi11. Fifty bnHoc~,~ \Yf're sold at up to £12 1?.. 6d.; the pri,~rs ran[:t•d from :810 %s. 9d. up to £12 l2s. 6d. Evn suppose the rl\~i('n (·f 9 bull Jck \\ aC<. £10. it \rou1c1 ( lf-'-,

£50C t • LtY fifiv bullock . It c. sts £3 lOs. per ht' ~. rl to· work those beasts. If YOU on not. vr·t £13 lOs. from the sal<' of tlw' meat and tho h:c-prorlncts as w<•ll. thc•n you do not n>ak0 OL'' '·inn:le shilling out of it. Shorn hec;J aLo fetched up to £1 per shr"'n. \Yhrn ,~ou consider these prices. I have no hesitation in ,a. i~g that there will not be any income tax dt•rJYrd b~_. the Incorne Tax Dcpartl11ent from the meat trad0 in Brisban0. (Hear, hear~)

::\Ir. BARBER (Bundabcr(t) : After the very interesting and more or less " meaty" spC'('2h \\~o ha.-c just listened to from the hon. gentleman~-~(laughter)-I feel bound to say that it will be read with intcmse interest bv the community at large. There is n0 doubt that the statc,mcnts made bY the hon. gentleman from his standpoint will be wr:;· t•,wefnlly studied b:v the )Wople outside. On the other hand. they will also peruse the statements made bv the hon. mrmb0r for Ithaca and other h~m. rnAmbers of the Committee, anrl • 1w· will be able to clr·1w their own d0ductions "" to wheth,~·r thr,- arf' getting a fair deal in connection with our mPat supply. \Yhonr·ycr I read a Finanoird Statement. it always r0 nlinrl!=! me of a cr>rtain nassage in SC'rint.nrP, that ":vran is fearfully and wonderfully

Jfr. Barber.]

153± 8upply. [ASSE:\IBLY.] Supply.

mad".'" !Laughter.) That about sums up the average Financial Statement. In listening to the di~cn,,ion this -••ssion on the Financial Statement, I have wondered whether the Trea<;m·or appreciates tho strong, inte;ligcnt critiC'isins tha.t are 1nade fron1 this side of the House. or whether he prefers most the effusive grovelling laudations of himself as Treasurer. \\Te have had some awful speeches in that repect from tlw other side. particularly from the hon. nwmbcr for Mary borough. That hon. gentlP .1an, figuratively, washed the Treasurer with invisibh~ ··•lap, and that is characteristic of the hon. member for Maryborough. If the Treasurer has the backbone which he claims to poe .. , •. ,,, I think he would rather li"t'·n to an intelligent criticism of the wcak,w-•ses of hi~ Financial Statement than ha.vo a Turkish bath of that fawning, soapy kind of criticism that comes from the bon. member for :\IaryborDngb. (LaughtN.) The Trea,urcr muot feel ashamed and humiliated when he listens to such grovelling remarks. \Ve have listened to a good few speeches on the Financial Stai-•mont. The Treasurer leads off by saying, " I am it," and the Government followers back him up by asserting that this is the ':lnly possible Government that could introduce a Financial Statement of this sort. Upon my word, I am inclined to believe them. (Laughter.) I do not remember, during my thirteen years in this House, ever finding so ;wuch reference to the first personal pronoun as we find in this Statement. Right through the Statement we find, "I," "We," "Our," " ·c s," and so on. It reminds me verv much of a poor old miner, who. in his last dying moments was waited upon by a good brother, who told him all about the golden harps, the golden crown, the golden streets, and all that sort of thing; and, just as the old miner was going to give his last kick, he inquired who drew up that "adjective" prospectus. It is like the Statement of the Treasurer. Everything is golden. The Statement itself is very like the speech made by the hon. member for Drayton the other night-it is distinctly "amoosing." (Laughter.) What an asset the Government is losing in connection with the hon. member for Drayton! At a time like this, when we are trying to raise money for the patriotic fund, I would suggest to the Government to send the hon. member for Dravton round the Commonwealth as a leeturf';. on behalf of the State Government, and lot his thorne be " Socialism and the Labour party." It would rake• in funds until there would be no further appeals required. The other night the hon. member for Drayton said, " Tho more money we borrow, the more we will have, and the lee-s we will have to pay." (Laughter.) The hon. member also said that th0 Brisbane River was in such a spl0ndid condition at the pre,ent time that a man in the service walked over it every day whil" 7oing- to work (Laughter.) There is no doubt the hon. member was intensely "amoosing." (Laughter.) I was not in the Chamber when the hon. member" spoke, but I 1'8t,d in the paper-that a man in the public s0r.-icc walkc'i acrocs the Brisbane River every rnornig.

Mr. BEBBINGTON : So he did. He walked neross e.-ery morning, (Renewed laughter.)

Mr. BARBER : It reminds me of the time when an old member of this Assemblv was addressing his constituents in the Valley, and one of the gods at the back of the hall !'sked him, ." Are yo_u in favour of asphaltmg the Bnsbane Rrver? " The candidate

[Jh. Bm·ben.

answered '' Y <'S '' straight away. Evidently, the bon. member for Drayton had that remark in hie mind when he was speaking last Thursday night. To come down to the more serious asnect of the Statement, we had the speech delivered here by the Treasurer. and later on we had a speech by thr~ han. DlCluber for T\iurru1nba in his usual assertive stvlc. We had the hon. member waving his hand in a dignified sort of way telling members on tliis side tha't they knew nothing about iJnance. He said there was a lack of canacitv and abilitv on this ;,ide to approach ,;. Fir'iancial Statement and discuss it in an intelligent mannoc.

The HO}TE SECRETARY : Hear, hear !

l\Ir. BARBER: There we have the stentorian tone',, of the Home Secretary ,echoing it. (Laughter.) I clnim, at any rate, that we have a fair n1easurc of intelligence on this side of tho House, and that we are quite capable of duling with financial measures. Statements were made the other night in reference to certain features and

aspects of the sugar industry, [7 p.m.] but, in my opinion, the Financial

Stat,ement holds out very little hope or promise of anything being done for the canegrower. I am wei! aware that already the House has been placed in possession of a Bill for the establishment of co-operative mills, but I do not see that it is going to help the sugar industry a great deal. In the speech made by the hon. member for Burrum the other night, he referred very briefly-too briefly in my opinion-to the sug·ar industrv. Bevond reiterating the old statements o~- micstatements, and misropr0scntatione of this party's attitude towards the sugar industry, the hon. member considered that tht" industrv. as far as he was ~oncerned, was best left alone, '.V e know that tho han. member for Burrum and the Government that he supports have done very little to help the eanegrowers, and probably the han. member for Burrum, having in mind the Yery bitter feeling that now exists amongst the c;megrowers of this State towards the Denham Government and towards himself personally. he dropped the subject b' quickly as possible.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIN: They have a very peculiar way of showing it.

Mr. BARBER: They have. What they did for the hon. member some twelve or eighteen months ago will never occur again, howe.-er much the hon. member mav desire a re~urrcnco, I am not unmindful" of the fact that, during tho Federal eledions of 1912, tho hon. member for Bm·rum, in conjunction with many other bon. members sitting on that side of the House, including the Treasurer and the Premi<'-, stumped the whole of the sugar districts and urged on the eanegrowers to vote for the abolition of the excise and bounty. If the hon. member had urged them to vote for the ret,ention of the excise and bou<rty, matters would ha vc been in a ver;;· different position to-day as far as the canegrowers are concerned.

Lieut-Colonel RANKIN : 2s. 2d. per ton worse off.

Mr. BARBER: The party on this side of thr House at that time urged them to vote for the retention of the administration of the sugar industry in the hands of the Commonwealth Government.

The TREASURER : They got more for their cane last year than ever they got before.

Supply. [27 OC'.rOBER.] Supply. 1535

::VIr. BARBER: That does not affect the position at all. The party on that side of the House. after they had urged the canegrowers to vote for the abolition of the bounty and excise, traitorously left them to shift for thcm"•Jlvcs. \Vhat was the legislation introduced in this House last \ear bv the hon. member for Bm·rum ? He ~tat< d 'that ii it \\as carried it would assist the canegrowers to a very considerable extent, and yet the part~ on that side of the House voted it out. They told the han. nh n her that it would shatter every pla,nk of the Liberal platform, or, to use a nauti<eal phras• , "that it would shiver every plank.'' Hon. members had, no ·doubt, often heard the phrase "shiver my timbers," and probably tha,t would have been more apropos to the case. After having led the canegrowers of this State into a trap, the Government. assisted by the hon. member for Burrum. have left them to stew in their own Jli!Ce. I will give the Committee one to two instances that were brought under my noti<ee the other dav, and I would like to ask the Treasurer to· make some effort to aosi.st the men to whom I intend referring. There is a <:ertain larg<e proprietary mill in my district, although not immediately in my electorate, and I have been requested by a number of canC'growPrs to bring this matter uLder the notice of the Committee. This mill promised the canegrowers 14s. per ton for their cane on 12 P.O.C.S. This cane has been sent in to the mill, and for every unit that the analyses have fallen below 12 P.O.C.S. the growers have suffered a reduction of 3s. 6d. per ton for their ca,ne. That, I might say, is even wor·se than the methods of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, as they only redu.:e their price about Zis. a unit. I wouJ.d also like to point out that although they have religiously reduced the cane by Zis. 6d. per ton immediately it goes a unit below 12, when it gets down to 8 P.O.C.S. the price has been 8s. &!. per ton. I have official statements from the mill showing that in several instances the analyses have gone up to 14.05, 14.54, a,nd 14.59 P.O.C.S., yet these men have never reeeived, nor are likely to receive, any increaee in the price for cane above 12 P.O.C.S. These men would have been satisfied if they received an increase of 2s. a ton for ·every unit above 12, and that would be only a fair and reasonable thing. I hope the Treasurer will investigate this matter. I brought a matter under his notice last year where some canefarmers were not getting a straight deal, and the han. gentleman investigated the subject, and, I believe, on that occasion, saw that justice was meted out to the growers, and I hope in this case also thB hon. gentleman will see that the growers get justice. It is a mo··t dastardly thing when these ca,ne· growere are nlaced in the position that they arc practical!,- compelled to send their cane to this one big proprietary mill and arc paid at the r~price of the miller.

::,[r. BEBBINGTON: \Vould not co-operation do away wi'h that?

::.1r. BARBER : I am not dealing with cooneration now. These men want justice now. 'The Governmc!lt and the han. member for Rurrum ha\~e kept these men on a string for the past b·o years and the5c require justice done to them during this session. If there is anvthing- in the Act which we passed last Year 'tv which the, Treasurer can see that justice ·is done to these cane growers I hope

he will see to it. If the hon. gentleman will see that these men get ju,ticc, I am sure that no one will be more willing or more pleased to give the han. gentleman credit than myself.

The TREASl;RER: Don't vou think that if there is anything wrong,· one of the first stops should be to mention what the cases are.

Mr. BARBEH: I will give the han. gentleman a 11 the material. Regarding the Financial S-t:atelllf'nt gcrwrallv, tho Trf"asurer has pointed out that the dir,c'tstrous wa,r now being waged 011 tho Continent will probably ha vo a serious effect on the Stab'' I'• v<mue for this year, and I hnYe no doubt tiLt ,,.o will su!Yer vorv considerably, in cohmon with the other >:)tates of the Commonwealth. \Vhil ,t it is to be earnestly Jesirc d that this gig;;utie struggle that is now taking place among,t three or four of !he grPat nations of the world should be of very short duration, in mv opinion it will be a ,smne,vhat protractecf one. .A.ustralia and Queen,]and, in common with all parts of tho British Empire, and, indeed, of the civilised world, will be very seriously affec· ted economically, industrially, a,nd commerciallv b-· this troublP, One individual is claimed· or' a,sserted to be responsible for this terrible catastrophe which has overtaken the world, and probably if a,]] the punishment umld be meted out to him we should feel happy. But it is a most regrettable thing, and a sad thing, tha,t when one man as is claimed to-day by practica,llv the who!~ of the civilised world, has laun~hed out in a great battle against the more freedom and liberty loving nations, that so many thousands -tens of thousands-of our own kith and kin will give their lives to satiate that one man's ambition; and in addition to those who are our own kith and kin there are tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of the liberty-loving citizens of France and Belgium who will give their lives and their best in this struggle. There are thousands of heroes, and heroines, too, in little Belgium who have already given their lives for their cm~ntry. Then, again, there are our other allws, "ho a,] so have to pay their price to secure to the world at large the freedom and liberty that we believed we enjoyed for a great many years. ·I rC'fer to the great nation of Rmsia. In addition to those, there are hundreds of thousands of the brave German nation who are also being sacrificed to gratify this one man's a,mbition. The words that were quoted mans years ago-I do not know exa,ctly where I picked them up, but they were used in reference to a great despot-seem applicable here-

" His game was one of Empir'"' and his stakes were thrones,

" His table tho earth, and his dice were dead 1nen's bones."

Those lines fairly \vel! fit the occasion. I am not much of a jingo, but I think this is an occasion wh<n every member of the Empire to which we b•long mu:_t thrill with pride \yhe':l he recognises the wonderful, ready, enthuswstJC. and loyal rFsponse that met the appeal from the mother country. It must have been of such incidents that Tenn:v son t)lought when he wrote those inspiring lmes--

,. Not once, not t\Yice, in this cur island' a_ story.

The path of duty has been the nath of glory." -

After that pa,triotic outburst, I suppose I

Mr. Barber.]

1536 SuppliJ. [ASSK\IBLY.] Supply.

had hPtter de\·ote mvself to on<> or two other mattNs. I said.just now that, in my opinion, the Commonwealth and the States individually will be considerably affected by this war. I think that there are many directions in which this State and her sister Strttes ean assi't the mother country, and in doing that thf'Y can assist themselves. There hn s. in the past been too much sham Imperialism. ·when it has come to a question of buying in the cheapest markets, it has been done, and tho same people who are so anxious to do that arc quite as ·enthusiastic to wan• a flag and beat a drum when the nation is face to face with the fray. I b0lieve that it is possible for the CommonwPalth. and for Quf'01lS]and also. to play a yery prominent part in developing our inclustriec in manv direetions. I notice there i~ an itt•1n in ~thP Stat0ment ref(~rring to a sum of .£370,329 which has been loaned to local authoritie'\. Now, I 'vant to say that. at the prc'cent juucturP, thP Government should '"<' that where public monPy ic lo cned to local bodic,, whNe the purchase of material is necessary, it should tH sp<>nt in purchaoing articles and material which have been made oithcr in Australia or in th<> l:'uitcd Kingdom. (Hear, !war!) Take the \Vat0r and Sewerage Board. \Ve kno1.7

: that a Yast sum of 1noney will be ex~ pended in conncc·tion with the soweragp and drainage scheme. \Vo heard it recorded c,omo time ao;o that purchase"• were mndE> of a Y<'ry .-cry ],nge quantity of cement by that bodv, and I am inclined to bclievr• th:tt, fliiniJlv be('J,use a f, w shillings were saved per Cwt. or per < ask, a larp-e quantity was purchasf'd from for0lgn 1nanufacturcrs, or from the Brie;banP or Commonwealth a u:-cnts rcpres,.::,nting fordgn n1anufacturers. I'hcn' gonp hirly carefully through the two returns which wen' tab]c,l the other day ou the motion of the hon. member for Buranda, and 'vc find that very large >Urns of money had b0en paid away to < ,•J'tain firms. I h ~"" tickc d off som0 of tlw larger items, 'nd thev arP as follows, so far as the return dealjng ~ with r~liho:·a~v rontract<;:. jg concerned: ~-T. Brown and Sons, £17,400 odd; A. :\1. Hertzberg and Company. £10,291; Smollie and Company, £10,324; Engineering Supply Company of Atvtralia, £15,098; Jam<'s Campbdl and Sons. £4.174; Brisbane Electrical Company. £1.039; D. and \Y. Murra0, £2.649; R J. \Vilson and Company, .. £1.315; and E. Rich and Company, £1,251. .\nd in the rdurn that was tabled dealing "cit h stor0' pur,:·hasecl ithout tender by the dcpa.rtments of Lands nnd. Railw~yo, there a.re al.o sorne vcrv consJdcr;tble f1ums :\Y. Adams and Company £1.397; Brisbane Ekctri< .tl Comp"nv . .£1.402; James Campbell and Som, £1:607; Enginr;cring Supply Company of Australia, ,(;6.252: . Dunlop Rubb<>r Company, £1.297; G1bbs, Bnght awl Company, £276; and A. J\1. H<>rtzberg (top in wire netting), £740. What I would like to know is, how much of that materi.al was rcalh- manufactured either in Australi~ or the l'nited King<lom? This matter of trade will become a very important one before this war is over, and it will become probablv a thou,and times more important when peace has been proclaimed. I understand that several firms whose names I have quoted are repreeentatives of Continental manufactm·ers. As a matter of fact, according- to the invf stigations that have been made by the Melbourne "Age" lately, it '<'Cms a very. very difficult matter to purchase anything in the shape of iron, wire,

[Mr. BrJ,rber.

or electrical machinerv from other than GNman firms. In last \VRdnesdav's and Thursday· s issues, thPy published a· ';·hole list of names, Some of the representatives of those firms have denied through the Press that thev are comwcted with Continental manufacturers. But, on looking up the respective ,, hare lists it has been discoYered that, in most case~-I have here a list of o.ome twenty or more different firms-85 per cent. o£ the shares are held bv Gern•ans or companics controlled bv Gei·mans. I am not gning to hound clown a man becaus'" he is a. GPrman and we arc at cnmitv with them at the present time, but I s.1y t'hat it is the· dutv of this Government, and of e\·ery GoYerlm1ent, in every part of the Briti .. h dominions to see that in the future the wholP of 'our money is spent within the Briti··h Empire. (HPar, ]war:) \Yc have bc•cn two lacltadaisinl in this matt0r. we· ha..Yc been too Ia:< altogether. and the point I 'vi~h to n1t•1G:, is that the HonH' Secretary, who claim· to be a good patriot-and I believe h0 is-~and who practically administers and controls the de" tinies of the local authoritiP", should Sl'C that where the purchasing of material is nerc imry by local authoritiPs that 11\"~('l'i~l should b0 purcha,E>cl from Australian or Driti~h finns. In rny opinion. a very large pe1·cpntnp e of thP morwy that has been spent bv local aut.hm-ititJ goes tm< ar:ls the purchase of m ... tcrial from peopl0 who are not ,ubj0cts of Ntr Empire. We had the same ihirio· app;':n·ing ill the L~Jnd0n '' Tin1f'r,.'' '"hc~e J\lr. J. :\L Henderson, :M.P., pointed nut a whole 1i~t of compan1c; which had, probably, one partn0r in Englan_d and the :t·mnainincr parlncrs on thl' Cont1 ncnt. .._.\nothor ]ie;t I haYo here shows the follo'ving eompanics which arc somewhat in that position: -Bra<Lhaw "\sphalt C'ompan:v. London "\~pJ_,alt Company. L. and C._ H~rdmuth. Lnmtccl, the A. R. G. Ekdnc C .>mpany. Limited, the Int0rnational Pharmaceutical -\o-e>nev the .._1\.dnil Elef'tric~J C(nnpanv. Li':nit~ci. the Lindenb(l'gCr Cold Stm·age and Can C, .mpanv. Lin1it0d. Cont.i.~,,uta! rryn~ ,mel Hubbcr Companv. Limiter!. C. P. Gocrz Optical \V orks. Limii.ed. Osram Lamp \Yorks, Lin1it0d. SlPTa.r Foddcl~ Corr1pany. Li1nitcd. B1·iti~.h Ocre•·.it. \Y atcrproofu1g Cornp.-· ny. Limited. Brim,down Lamp \\.orks. Limited, Calmon. Asbestos and Rubber \Yorks. LimiiNl, Electri~al Company .. Limited, Bri_tis)l R"ilwav 'Traf!iu and Ekdr1c Company Limited, Mit·ehe and Gunther Optical Con'pan::, Limited; Sterling 'relcphonP . ancl El<>ctr~c Company. Limited, International Electnc Company, Limited, ~.\crated C'a~1d.i' c .. )mJ" ny, Limited. British ::V1etal Engranng Company, Limited. Armadud :Manufacturing Company, Limited. British ::V1annesmann Tube Comp:;n~, Limiter!. British Petroleum Company. Lmnt<•<l. Carl Zeiss (London), Limited, and J ohan Faber, Limited. Out o£ a large m~mber of shares represented by these <'ompame,, twothirds. at ]ea,t, of them are held by people who are at the present time encmi<>s of our oYvn country.

The HOME SECRETARY : The worst of it is that we are selling our produce to them, too.

Mr. BARBER: That is so. I claim that the majority of the peoJ?le of the Comm'!nwealth are clc"<irous of haYmg all our reqmrements manufactured in Australia. and I believe that

DO\\' we have n Labour Govern[7.30 p.m.l ment in power they will amend th"

" tariff with that object. What we cannot manufacture here we should buy from

Stcpp[y, [27 OCTOBER.] 1537

cur kit.h and kin OYf'r th(~ sea$. It '' P pur"U(~ " policy of that kim!. we Rhall find that th<· old country will take the largf-st portion of our pmduce. During the last recess I endeavourpd to get up a deputation to wait on the TreaoLUllr with reference to the establishment of a State factory for the manufacture of cement. \Vhen I advocate such a proposal, rne_dbers on the other ::;ide of the House may ejaculate," More State enterpri~t', nwre Labour proposals," and contPnd that St<tte cntl>rpri- l' in ="<'w Sm;t h \Y ales has not been a success. All I can c-ay is that if the f'ilt.•rpri .• es of 5 ]JOr c<mt. of the private persons engaged in mannfa.ctnn·s had parHH d out as wdl a::; the ~P"\V South \Vales St tt<· enterprise has done in about two years, then privatP individuab v·nuld haYC "'ha.ken hand~ "\Vit.h thL"lil1SPlYCS.

ln tlu• rPport~ of our oyc·n geologi . ..;~"' 1ve are told that. Queen~alnd vos;:;psses sonw of the ftnest Inatt'riu l in the \\ orld lor ce11Il'lltInaking purpost·"

The HOME SECRETARY: I caused that investigation to be made .and obtained all the information available as to the treatment of thP raw product. so as to enable any company to start business.

:Mr. BARBER: I have gone to some trouble in this matter, and have managed tD collate a lot of information from the different mining journals. Probably the hon. gentleman may have been responsible for the investigation which elicited that information.

The HOME SECRETARY: Correct.

}ir. BARBER: I am pleased that such is the case. The hon. gentleman docs the right thing occasionally, I grant, but he does not persevere. Here is one of the best opportunities the hon. gentleman has ever had in his li£0 to a>-i·Jt the State but after d1sco\ :·rin~· that Quc_\cnsland lH~~dures an <:hnost in •xbaustibk ~llpp1y of rnatDrial requirt:d for C~'llH'Ilt-Inaking, he stops there, nnd alltH\'~' a pri\ratf' indiYidua1 to c·irculari~-·· n larf:C' :c>ctiou of tht' 1nast0r bnilcl0r~ and dhcr' in BrioL·~ne. and to im-itc tlwm to sYndic"tc what should be a \' .1lual,]p Stat<• indu~try. In a pamphlPt issued a few month., ago h:· :\lr. ::Ylorry, it is ·.tated--

" Factories have been successfully established in ='lew South Wales, Victoria, other States, and in New Zealand, all of ,.-hich are paying handsomely, while the demand is greater than tho supply. One factory alone is knmvn to be making an annual profit of about £50,000.

" To erect works capable of turning out 20,000 tons of finished cement per annum, which quantity c.m be produced and placed on the Brisbane market at a total cost of £45,000, inclusive of all charges, while the returns from same, at present prices, would reach about £74,000. The capital required to accomplish this would be about £60,000.

"As an alternative, a 10,000-ton plant per annum could be erected and equipped for £40,000, which would produce, at pre'ont selling rates, a revenue of £37,000, showing a profit of £13.000. This .also will provide a 10 per cent. diYidend, and build up ' depreciation,' 'phtnt renc"'\Yal,' and ' reserye funds ' sufficient to duplicate the whole factory and plant in five years. These figures ar;, based on reliable data, and will bear close

1914-5 B

scrutiny by any interested party who cares to go through them, thus showing that a p0riodical distribution of surplus funds is a certainty."

\YhPn we con~itler that we Ul'(' u~ing u,

tremendous quantity of cement in connection >vith our public works, and in the con ~truction of railway bridges and culverts and a thousand and one other thing, which toclay call for a very large quantity of cement or rt•ulfurced COlH'l'PtP, 1 PlllJ)hatically asst>rt tlH' G~wPnLnent stand concll'Lnnod in the e~~C'R of the taxpayer., i11 having allnv•:ecl tht• 1nat.te1· of tht' manufacture of C(\.:HPnt to pas~ into the hand,, oi privatt' p1·r_~on:; ,-,ftL'l' ha' in'2,' acquired so much information on the subject. The IntL·rstate Coni1nission, wh-en sitting in ~" South \Yalcs a£,". months ag-0, clicitPd c~xtraordinary evidence rt·garding the pro1it·, 1nade o11 tht~ Illanufaetur(_- and t.ale of cenu·nt hom ::Yir. A. :VIc Alister, manag·or of Me Ene11 tilH.l Co., g<'ncral rnprcha11t.::., of 8pri112, :::;treet. ~\Ir. :\IcAli,ter ,aid--

" Prices charged by the local nunufacturers wNe, he eaid, very much tDo high, and in his opinion they could sell cement in Sydney at about Ss. a cask, and make a profit. At th<• present tilJ1e they were charging 13s. 6d. on trucks.

"The Commonwealth Portland Cement Company, of Portland, Kew South vr ales, showed a profit, he added, in 1913 of £60,791. That »a· .according to their balance-sheet, but in his opinion the actual profit was considerablv more. The balancr'-shcet lodged with the Registrar furnished only the most meagre dPtails. The do< mnent did not eYen show how much was written off for depreciation. During the years 1905-8 the mmpany Bhowed this item to be £7,500 a year."

It was also pointed out that the Commonwealth Portland Cement Company showed a proJit last year of :£60,791 on ~ paid-up capibl of £100,000, and a profit during nine years of £~00,01JO. At tlw prcil'nt time tlw:<ar<' C'ndcaYouring· to cstabli':h another cPment factory at Candas, in Xew South \V alPs. Larb;-' r_~scrnJirs are b0iug excayated, and ope rcsernnr adjoining thf' con1pii~1y';:, wq~lmc,; has bren complctf'Cl. I do not want to read all this C"idl'nce, bnt I cont0nd that if this Gov<•rnm.c•nt hayc rPallv t.he welfare of tht• taxpayers of Qucl'nsl,,{d :,t h<:Mt they >cill looe no time in estahlishing work, for thP 1nanufactnrc of ccn1cnt in Que~·nsland. I know, of course, that hon. members opposite will W<'akly claim that it cannot be done, or th:tt, uttering tho old cry, private enterprise can do it better than the State. y., thl'r<· no mPmher of th•' pr<•s0nt Gov0rnment >Yho has Pnfficient in~,~f'nth-e ~~cniu:;:, or S11fiic: _rr initiuti\ P, or. if vou lik(', sufficient forf''' of character, to enCif'aYour to cst:~blish Statn ('C•ment \'·orks in (2necn;:;1and? I haYe sho;vn thf' possil-iJitics th"rf' arc ill connection v.+ lt ilw manufacture of this material.

The SECRET.\RY FOR PL:BLIO LAXDS : \Yhy don't you start a factory?

Mr. BARBER : Why don't the GoYornment start one 'f

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANild : You must not dep<~·nd upon the Government for everything.

Mr. BARBER : If l were Minister for \Yorks in the Cabinet, one of tho fir,t things I would bring up and insist upon would be

Mr. Barber.]

1538 Supply. [ASSElVlBLY.] Supply

a proposal for the establishment of a cement factory. I would insist upon it, and probablv wreck the Government if it was not carried out. (Laughter.) The tens of thou· oands of vounds that arc being paid into the hands of manufacturers on the Continent would be saved to the people of Queensland if we had our own cement factories. and vet the Minister for Lands sits there in a dreamy ideal state, as if he were drifting in a canoe on one of tho canals of V enic•,. (Laughter.) He is quite happy and in splendid health; he has a fine physique, and all is right with the world as far as tho han. gentleman is concerned, and so he treats this important matt-er in the most flippant manner. The people of Bundaberg and of the majority of the other electorates in the State will have some verv serious questions to put to the members of the Cabinet and thf'ir followers when the next elec· tion comes on. They will ask how the Government have handled and administored the funds of the State. Here we have a Government and a party whose great idea and sole object is to worship the god of private enterprise-private enterprise that exploit< and fleeces the public.

The Hm!E SECRET.\RY: Shocking~

Mr. BARBER: Thny are tellmg the farmers and the public gen0rally that we, on this side. are their enemies, but I would remind thPm how the misguided primary producers actNl at the recent Federal elec· tions. On the 5th September last the fusion party stood be·,ide the gran' while the eocls, in the form of ballot papers, covpred ddunct fu··>ioni,m. (Laughter.) It was on that day that the members of the fusion GoYernmcnt met their O\'Prwhclming dnfeat at the hands of the outraged public of Australia. Their last hope---their onp grelt hope-was gone. Joseph Cook and Sir William Irvine were wipecl out for ever. I shed a tear when I think what happened to the groot fusion party. (Laughter.) I want to make a prediction.

:\h-. KE~RELL: "A Daniel c·~me to judgrnent.''

Mr. B_\RBER: Tlw holl. member for Port Curti' "-ill mod his .doO'n at the hands of the enraged cledors of Port Curti'·· at the ne-,:t <election. Th(' hon. member told the electors of Port Curtis that he would tear this GoYc~rnnwnt to plC'""R un~Pss th0;~ granted tLc Ion,:; rnilwa:v haulage rates, and built thP Cctllide Railwav, and th(' Gladstone \Yaterworks, and a thou-cmd other things. So far. the hun. gt~ntlL'Inan ha~ not secured these things, and the outraged e!Pctors of Port Curtis >Yili d' :tl with him at the nf'xt 0lcdion. (Laughter.) I know they are waitin~ for tlu' hon. ~cntlc1nan's po1Hical scalp.

::\Ir. R B. C. CoRSER : You said that about \Yestern Australia.

::\Ir. BARBER: Tho balance m \Vestern AL!StJ-eJia is on the right side. They will hau the majority, and it is just the same if it i~ a m aj orih~ of one or a rnaj or it~~ of t\,·,,lve. That is what " narkf'd " the han. ln;'rnber fo1· }1, ryborou~h, and rnakcs hi1n shake th::~t hirsute anpc1•dag<:> of his. (Laugh· ter.) If tho \Ye -tnrn Anstndian Government \Yerc in a. u1inorit. of one. ·wh{\t a cel-ebration tlw }~( ". ··1c· ·llF'1: for ::\ia:·y}lOrongh and hiR partv >vculd h'lYe! l\Iako 'no mistake about it tbcr' an' <roin:· to be otlwr States of Aus· tralia. '' hich.,' ·ill ha>c Labour majorities

r.lfr. Barl.Jfr.

when their electiona come round. (Heal', hear: and laughter.) \Ve hear a groat deal about th-" ::\ew South \Vale' Labour Go\'o.tn· mont. How they must h<tY<' laughed up their sleeYes in Kew South \Vales when they heard the criticism of the TrPasnrer, the han. 1nernber for Burrtun, and the hon. mernber for Maryborough! :u~ time is ·drawing to a close, and there are a few more m attors I wish to refer to. To come baC'k to the serious aspect of the Statement. This Go· vcrnment cuu do a great deal to h<'lp the clf'Yelopmcnt of our p"imary mdustnes at the prcs<mt juncture. Thcr<:> are a number of thing•· that can be done by th<' Depart· l1l8''t of Agriculture: th,- flax industry could be e. tablished lwre. _\ great ckal more could !1e done for the tobacco industry by the _\.g-ri<'nltnrul Department, A great deal more could !1e done by tho Lands Depart· ment if tlw Secretarv for Public Lands would onlv w,dm up. "There iq a lot to be done in CClllllPCtion with the dt'Yelopment. of our timlJcr industry. At the preser:t trme vvc are importing· timlwr into Australia, ~nd it is b,,ing usPd in ,York where .. A.ustraha_n timlwr would be much hcHer anted than !s imported timber. The Secre~ary for _Pub_hc Lands will haYe to put more hfe and nvacit!' into the Forestry Department, and ';!al~e It a grPatrr ass0t to Que·Pnsland than It IS at the pmsent time.

The SLCRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS : "When did you c!iseowr that?

::\Ir. BARBER: As far back as 1903-4. I have advof'ated the establishment of a Furestrv Department and the development of our tin;ber industry ever since we first de· cid<'d to ha ye a State Forestry Department, and I haYo alwavs pointed out how our unemployed could iw engaged in the work of rcafforestation. \Y<> have plenty of unem· ploved at the present time who could be put on at this work. It would he nettN to replant trpcs as others arc cut duvrn, so that ;ve shall uot be placPcl, as sonw other countnes vf the world, with <>II our timbers dcstroye·~· I nm sorrv that the Secretary for Publ:c Lands is n'ot serious in connection with tlns busin<''·', because a very large section of the taxpawrs of the State recog·nise th?-t Queensland is not doing all she could do m tbe best intere-<ts of our gr<'<tt timhm· resources .. :Mr. Hutchison, from South Africa .. when mte;·; \'lP>'T'l bv the " S,vdncy :Y1m·mng ~Icrald. pointed out tlnt the timb0r industry I_n South Ahic'l had bPen negledo·d th<;re. JUSt the ~~tl1l" as it \V<.i.S jn sorne Stat0-s 1n. _.\_upi-rah!l. _.\ lot of lnont'y was RlJent on the 1ndustry 1n Sonth Afri<'~, with the rf'sult that thev are saYing £1.000,000 per annum at. the present tinw in timber for State l?qmroments. I hope tho GoYernm. nt will not sleep any longer on the·._,e rnattcr·"\,

The hell in.'ic.1ted that the han. member's time hac! expired.

Mr. KESSELL (Port Curtis) : It is some· what difficult to follow the wit of the House. I will not attempt to bring my r<:>marks to the jocular tone that he did I shall make my remarks as brief as p~ssible. I conoTatulate th<' Treasurer and the members on this side of the House on the excellent Financial Statement given by the Trcasur:'r. For ma.nv vears past members of the Liberal party have told the people of Queens· land that it is neC'essary to keep on t_he Treasury benches a eane and sound Admm-

Supply. [27 OcTOBER.] Supp?!J. 1539

i.stration. The seasons have been good, and I think the people .vere heginning to think that we \\ ere unnecessarily alarming them as to the bacl times that will come. It is an PXCPc•clingly fortunate thing that at the prl'sent juncture in Queensland the 'l'reasury bench<es arc occupied by a sane and sound Administration. and that our friends still occup, sc·ats on the Opposition side of the HoLISP. ::\o one thought twelve months ago that a great crisis would come in the shape of such a great national calan1ity as v\·e are experiencin:;· at the present time. At the present time civilisation is in the melting pot, as many of the eivilised nations of the world at pre,-ent occupy the position of an .armed camp. I hardly like to think what it would have meant to Queensland if we had been govPrned as vV estern Australia and r\ew South \Yales have been governed. As far as I mn concerned as a citizen of Queensland, I am devoutly thankfui that we have a sane Administration on the Treasury bench<'' at the present time. J nst at this moment I sincerely sympathise with hon. members opposite at the calamity which has befallen their eomrades in \Vestern Australia. The hon. member for Bundaberg referred w the 1'0H'l'oe ,,ustained by the fusion party, but it is nothing to the dead and dying members of the Labour party we find in Western Australia to-day. In an evil moment hon. members opposite took the early returns of the IV est Australian election, but to-day we see Mr. Scaddan in the position that he will not be able to carry on in such .an outrageous way as he did in the past. vVhile I listetwd to speeches from hon. mem. hers opposite. I was disappointed. We usually expect to hear a financial discussion when a Financial Statement is beit1g considNed. Somebodv said that the leader of the Dpposition did not study the Financial Statement. It would not take anybody long to find out that such was the case, because he -came into the House with ill-prepared and worse digested notes. By no stretch of imagination can anyone consider a recita~ tion from the Labour platfo1·m as a criticism of a Financial Statement. He was followed by the deputv leader of the Opposition. No ~natter !w» good the deputy leader may be Ill electwneering m<ttt<ers, no one can expect him to be a financial critic or financial expert. In that matter he knows less than anybody in the House. The only man on the other side whom I consider qualified to .criticise th<' Financial Statement is the honom·able and venerable member for Herbert. In that furious style of his, accompanied by ba,d temper and fault-finding, he abused in· dividually and collectively all the m€mbers on this side of the House. Then he gave utter.anc<' to this most astounding statement. I wrote it down so that I would not do the hon. member an injustice in reading it-

" And whilst surplu>es are, no doubt, preferable to deficits, there is no special virtue that I can see in always shaping our finances so as to make sure of having this one little ew~ lamb."

Fancy man making such an idiotic statement as that! \Ve know that the han. member for Herbert has had a financial training, bu• when we look into tho compan': into which hP hfls got we ('":n quite undef~ stand how it is that he runs the Co-operative fltoree on to th0 rocks quite regularly. \V <> have the strongest party on this side of the Houw. both numerically and otherwise, but all the same, we expc·ct to get proper criti-

cism from the other side of the House. In the first place, their leader is too lazy to do it. In the second place, most of the members of the partv opposite are intellectuallv incapable of offering a financial criticism- on anything, even on a co-opPrative store. I, for one, who have thll interest of the country at heart, feel that it is up to the members of the Opposition to do something, and learn. at least, the A B C of finance. In six months' time we are going befo1:e the electors of Qu<>ensland. I have not the slightest doubt that the people of Queensland will not make a chan(\e of Government. In spite of all the optimistic views of hon. members opposite, I am sure that the people "f Queen5land will not '· "vap horses while ( ro:..~jng thP strct,n." To swap horses cro.ssing a stream you have to assume that there are horses on both sides. The electors of Queensland will not discard tho useful and safe Liberal horse for thP donkey on the Opposition benches. I have no fear that when we go before the country next year this partv will come back stronger than

" ever. I am very disappointed [8 p.m.] that tlw automatic inneasos in

the public service are not to be allowed, although I heard the Treasur~r say there is yet some hope that they w1ll be given. I sincerely hop~ that . the !_owerpaid members of the pubhc service will be able to get the increases they so much deserve. I would like to say a few words with regard to the future policy that I would like to see the Government carry out. \Vhat the country is waiting for is not so much the details of frPsh taxationwhich we will get from the Federal Government--or the terms and conditions upon which the Government can renew the loans, as to know its policy of up-to-date activitya policy which will inspire every man and woman to put forth the best in them, and while sparing their reserves yet spend with an open hand capital invested so that employment will be . fairly plentiful. New railwavs must be bmlt so that the producers may b'e served and also add to our already excellent rail way revenue. I feel sur:' that the Government will carry out a bold railway policy and execute contracts already entered into quickly and effectively, so that the returns may come in at the earl ie.st PO_'siblc mo'1lent. The schem<' of callmg Ill

everybody and anybody capable of helping to tide over the war may not appeal to the soeialists. Thcv have a bad habit of looking on the Government as the beginning and end of all activitv, and since it can tax and borrow it must 'be looked to for empluyment: whether the employment shall be link<'d to a wund bu,ines·.likP policy of public works or not does not matter much to them. But our real wealth is tho land. Let us build railways and settle people on the land. \Ye have thousands of acres of rich unoccunied land, .and if the Government will i~ addition to their alre.ad:v progrP,sive policY, build more railways, it will not only give work to the unen1ployPd, but for 'all time add to our national wealth and prosperity. Tl:e root of this, of course, is finance; and while I may be unorthodox in the views I am now placing br-fore the CommiH""· I think thne viPws ai'C' worthy of more than a passing though~. My ide'l is to i~··JH notes or TrN!'UI'J' b!lls. ThE' plan that a II our financial trouble may be OYercome by the Government running a note printing prE's~ is too ridi:nl.ous !o need serious attentwn; but a. hm1ted Issue of

JJfr. Kessell.]


paper money, redeemable on a fixed date, to be applied only to Rpeeifie works which will create their own redemption fund, is, in my opinion, in the region of the ]ll'llctic-~ble. The IN .ons. of histor:: are against an unlimited paper issue, but they are aho against the statutory regulation of prices for commodities; they are against many of the devices which have been resorted to by this House to meet the new problems arising from changed eocial conditions. Although one hesitated to plunge into a discus,ion on this complex question, there are those of us who hold the view-and I am one of them-that cir•Jumstances under which paper issues failed in the past entirely differ from the circumstances of to-day, and that, as an expedient to overcome a temporary crisis, a limit•·d paper issue, redeemable at a fixed date and applied to specific purposes, can be justified. I can hear my critics using the historical parallel of the issue of paper during the American civil war, and I admit that at a time likP this desperate cases need desperate remedies; but if we look fully into this paper issue it is not so desperate as it seems. There is no doubt the paper mone,- there issued did undoubtedly depreciate and cause increased Drices for comn1oditi0·'· but the <'ircurnst'Unce~ were entirely different from those prevailng in Queensland to-day. The £meed loan of the civil war was used for militar,y operations, as a means of destruction and not for thr; creation of wealth. It is totallv different to is~·.!C a loan for the err '!lion of n0w W<'alth, and that is a point J would like to impre" upon the Committee. \Yhile the American note i•-<nc w:.ts absolntelv for the nurposes of war, the is.ue that I a.rn advocating now is purc·l0 for the purpose of adding to the wealth of Queensland. For this rc'· on I have bPf'n of the opinion ever ·inPP the lwginning of this war that thP surest form of relid ,,·ould be for tho Govprnm~~nt to n1aintain, as it has done, (-1Xpcnditure on public works and raih,-a vs, and therPby absorb. if po,,i}le, the un0mployed, or a portion of t.hr-nl, h.v lncl·easocl cxpcPdih.ue. Tlw popular a"mnptioi. is that pap0r Jllonf'y is entirely ba··.Pd on g-old re-·,0rYe~. It is h0ld that the Commonwea:th note is accc-]ltC'd by the publi• becaue.c the holder knnws he C':<.n get a. soYerE'ign fro1n the Trcasu;·y for it. As a. matter of fact. the Commonwealth cannot redeem half its notE's in gold. I think everybody "·ho has studied the quc•·.tion knm1·s that. Tbc Commonwealth note is aec:Jptf>d because the public know that thr Grn~f~l'll'11f'IJt 11o:~~c" -('8 a~~FPtf'., not nf'c-- ~EJrily in gold. in l'xrc of it.s total j.,;'lH'.

This is the source• of confidence in all paper mon<'::. Tlw whole busirwss of the comJnnnity is transa ;t._d on pa ner. not ll('f'C'"'Sarily notcc. but bills of excha.ngc, promiRsor;~· not' •-.. chcqncJ. "·arrants. hnd other ncgotiahl{~ in~trun1Pnt~. Take, fof instance, C'·Ur banking- in.titutions. Their liabiiities at the end o( th:· last. quarter wc'rP ovot £150.000,000; their tot: 1 bullion wa about £32,000,000. They could not paY in cash one-fifth of their Iia hili tic·-. hut wlwn we• soc, on the other sidf'. that thP:r :1-:setR rpprPSPnt no 1c:;R a >mn than £164.000.000, "'" s<o tho rce.~on of the conf1dcnc, rig-htly rcpc'c'cl hv the pnblic in these ;n;+itntione. It is tho habit of mombors rn tho nthe:· side to abuse banking institntions. I haw heard tho subject disCl!·<C'd during thie clPbr,te, anrl I mak0 tlw ;tatonwnt without fear of contradiction that bnt for the trading ban\s: jn )\_LL~rnlia, _\us

r Jr I'. ]( essell.

tra.!ia to-day would be fiftv vears behind what. it is, and there is no· co.nntrv in the world, "·ith tho exception of C:mr;da, that hac bc.'n so helped by the bank- of isstw. The, ha vc gone to evCQ' :.mall town in Australia., and in no end of wavs ha cp helped the man on the land and the traders. and I take this opportunity of paying my, tribute to the grand "·ork that tho h·ading banks haYL' donP in Av-.;tralia. At the ~a1nc tiu1e. I "·ould like' to sa-- I am one of tho.'<' who ie a 'lrong believer in th<' Con:nwmwalth Bank as a tradir;g _bank. It i. ;1u·c to •top, but, of cour~e, 1t. IS far fron1 be111o· of llllll'h use ht rn·e·-ent. IYP have hcard-na lot of eilly talk about the Uomn1onwpalth Rank during this ch'b1te. The ComrnonwPalth Bank "-ill be a great institution, and it i~ up to <·YPl'S

man in Australia to help it. but I v::mlrl like to ;:;uc it confined cntir(~ly to a. trading- bank, Gnd lc:n'<' tho Savings Bank to dw State•. }ly cxpcncncB ha~ been th:tt in a gro\.ving countrv there is ahvavs roon1 for lllOre bank;.; It is 'the invariable. experieneo -in country towns that where there is one b1·anch of a hank--I cannot account for it but I know it i~ a fa<'t~and anoth£'T b'ank onr>n" a Lranch, that the b:mk first there gets an increJ·, ·d busin{';..s. The banks arc stable in:3tituhons to~day. not because of thPir gold reSl'rYes. but because ih(~ public knO\>. thev command much gr-. ater wealth than their liability. The sam<' principle applies to all tntchng bank~. Gold to tlOiilE' Pxtent has ceased to be the complete medium of exchange. For manv ve::crs it m-ed to be the .:·ffcrtiYc 111~(lium (~f CxchangP bct\Vl't'll counb·ics, ~ut .bet\Yee:n citizens operating in the~e conntnes rt dors not play such an important part. \Yha.t risk would our State run bv obtaining a loan on a papPl' cnn·l·ncy r0-deenlable in, say, fh-e year~'! \\\ p~1ssess a''Sds per head of population far in excess of those of anv other countrv in thP world The bulk of ocur loan rnone·:~I woul<l lik~ to impn'"' thi' point upon c the Committee· -i·'- used in creating assets and increasing the eaming power of the whole community.

Ilon. H. PHILP: \Y ould that be il1tor<"stb arin.;?

1\lr. I\.]£SSELL: Oh, Y(':-'. T1u: enornlOH'·

Burplus of our ass•A':i oY:Cr our liabilities is _u[!icient, in mv opininn, to jusrih a loan of this kind, pa-rticularly if the mm1ev spent crr·des wealth sufficient for its mvn reclempt,on. The scheme th·lt I would -,uggest isthis : That the Gm-crmncnt rmshce 011 with ali railways which will giw the f'~rliest returns, thus absorbing a great portion o£ the unemployed; thc<t a spl'cial pmcrgency Bill he pa',.'d authorising the construction of new lines and payment up to a specific amount for the work dono, redet•mJ.ble in Trea 'Ul'y billB of five _vea.rs' currency; that the Federal Parliament be asked, if necessary, to 1na.kt> the '·C bills Jegal tender. Of course, we haye to ask the Federal Parliament tomake· the·,,,, bills legal tender, but I do not think !here would be anv bar there. This D1Pa.TIS, of COUYSf', that ftll the CODlll1UDity

llJust help; full valn~ must Lr, gin'n b;~· all rmgaP·ed on the \VOrlL I haYC' confid-PnCP in tlw \Yorkin.g people of th0 State to bPlicvc that if the,- knee<· that the Gf'wTnnwnt \Yas p-c,ing- out 0£ thnir way to ITet 111_11 cnlplo:s-ment. th<:· wouB riS<' to the ocf'asion and tlw GcwNnment stroke would b.' a thing of the past. The work donA under the scheme "·onld create ih o"·n fund fot' rc·bmntion of the Troasur;~· hills. and this. I contend. is an C'ntirc1y different proposal :ro:n issuing


paper money for the pnrchase of gunpowder .and 'hells. There would be no depreciation of the• cmTUle>, and, to a large extent, the preS('llt uncertn'inty would cease. It is tuu_)lcss .drifting 011 in the fond hope that the war will soon bo over. rrhe indir,ations are that the struggle \Yill be a protracted vlll', and that next ye.cr we must face a depression that \vill call for cxtr~lordinary measures. 1n cornmon with eYcn other n!ember on both sides of this House, 1 would like to see this disastrou~ 'iYnr coneludcd to-n1orrov:, but, even if it wc•rc condLtdod to-morrow, thoro '>'<mld be a tremendous shortage of money throughout the world. A scheme such as this v. auld mean that we would do awav with relief work. I hate thL very thour;-ht and sound of it. It seems to me to be too much like pauperism and charity to sec able-bodied men getting relief work; and, while I believ·o that the scheint•, a~ I ~:.1id in 111~" op0ning rcn1arks, is a bit unorthodox, vet I believe it is on a soun(l lH.l, is, aud a· Governnwnt sue h a~ we ha;-e in po·ser c mld place the matter beforr; tlv· House on a workable footing. _\nd if at the L·nd of the war we had a debt of £10.000,000 or £15,000.000. the debt would be in our 0\Yn conntn·, . the intcere:,t would be sp 'llt in our o\\11 coil11try, and \Ye would haYe <lom '"' av ,,-ith the fearful trouble of urwmploymr·nt: I m<"'ely submit the matter to the I-Iou.~~-·. and conclude 1n7 rcn1arks by again congratulating the TrE<tsurcr on his Financial Statement, and expressing the hope that ht• ;,-ill take some note of what I have said, and see if this s<hcme cannot be brou?ht for,· •.nl Parle-, so that it will help us to tide cn•r the fmancial difficulty. and to a large c•xh•nt solw t hl· prob1Pn1 of unemployn1ent.

Hm:OT'RABLE IYlE:IIBERS: Hear, hear!

}Ir. BO\YMAX (Fortiturle Valley): \Yc han• heard a. good dc·al of discussion of tlw .diffPrencr-. betw<een the Liberal party and Labour party, and the disabiliti0s of Liberal Gov0rnments and Labour Governments. I do nor intend to enter into that question, but l intnnd to confine mvself chieflv to the admini,•ration ci one' ·department of our rublic '<·n-ir,. It has been .. aiel that a good ·deal t:<l much wao, made bY th;· leader of thP Opposition of ext0nsi ,-e quotations from thl' Auditor-Gem•ral's report. It has been one of th. dioabilities under which we haYe had to labour for manv vears that we have not had ilw report before 'us when we wpre cliocusFing tlw Financial Shtement. On reading the report. I find that the Auditor-General has <:ritiri· eel somewhat scathingly the Raih: ay DcparrmenL anJ it is that particular department that I "ioh to espcciallv rt>fcr to, and more particularly to the Stor<''s Branch. For -ome comicl0rablP time there has bc:.'n a fpnd h- twc<'ll }Ir. II<ndrcn, the general storekeeper. and th,, l:>t,• district storekcf'p<?r, l\:Ir. T,odgc. I c1o not know of a cpse sinr0 I hav0 been in this House in which a man hsc, been w unjust!:. persccntcd as l\1r. Lodge has been at J'hc hands of ~Ir. Hendren, and I purpose, with thP Ch:.-irman's permission, to show the Hon'<' f'xactly the attitude of the gcn('l'al storck~"pcr towards him. I mac- n:v that Mr. Locl?P has b0cn reduced to thl' position of an orrlinarv workman. on 9s. 9cl. a dav. from a posi,ion 'c~rrying £230 a year, in ":hich he , .... us a ft:'\"-' n1o-nths ago. Th~ troublP a rap;,.., as far hack as th~· 5th ~Tannarv. 1Ir. Hendren was u,1pro .~c!,,-•d by Mr. Lodge in reference to f'PmC'nt w1lich 'ras bPing cnrted by a carrying llrm in Bri-hanr>, at a cost of ow•r £200 a Y<'ar. '.du•n i· could ha\c b00n put into railway ·wagon' and taken to its dc~tination without

an,. cxprnditure. .And because 1\lr. Lodge ha(l the intorrst of the department at heart and conYeYed his Yie\"S to 1Ir. Holldreu, lll' was told t~ •,'O and 1nind his own busines';, I thi11k I will be abh• to pro,-,, to-night Ll.'f case ti.at Mr. Lodge, at an: rate, is a m, n "ho has capabilities that hav<' been appro:-ecl of b\ so1ne 1nen in the departn1en 1ncltuhng 1 ··o less a person th~.n the 1n·r·:;cnt Uonuni•,,..;ioner, '·ho js no\Y absent from the State, and that he 1s a 111an ·worthv of pron1otion aud abo of incrca'o for the' ability he has displayld in Larrying out his work. \Yhlm this matter was broti"ht under tho noti( ,, of ~\lr. Hendren, on 14th J anuar,., 1914, Mr. Lodge v ';'S suspended and called upon tJ a.nF::\vcr cert_a1n. quesboiL. Thos.: qurstion~ were tlw bcgmmng of the trouble between }lessrs. Lod;:;e and HPndren. On 14th J anuarc- the ±ollmYing letter \Yas \~Titten bv 11r.' Hendren to ::\Ir. S. C. Lodge:~··

"'Memo. " \Vith reference to vour letter of 5th

instant, asking that w :arrangcn1~nt ~e maclro for 0 ou to intPrnew the Commlosioner rclatiYe to the performance of vour duties. I am to request that you \vill formulate the sev<eral matterJ therein alleged, as under-

" 1. Explain the cause of ' the anxiety you are at present working under.'

" 2. Explain your reason" for . ~e opinion that ' this unpleasant positiOn ha' bc0n brought about by the gen<eral storekeeper for some reason or other, more particularly since t~e visit '?f JYleosrs. Robertson and Davis and their ·examination of you relativ" to staff workings.'

"3. Explain why 'it is extremely difficult for vou to ccntinue under present conditions.'

" 4. Describe ' the various matters ing the stocks, etc., to best advantage.' introduced b> :·on in storinr and ,,·ork

'' 5. Describe ' the unfair treatment ' from which you sc0k relief.

" Add anv additional report you may v, ish to make with a view to elucidating the circumstances referred to. " Meantime, you are relieved of duty

until further notice. Mr. H. Pearce has been placed in charge of the stor~s, and you will please hand over to him this afternoon."

Mr. Lodge, on answers to the follow:-

16th January, Fant m his que,tions, which are as

"Sir,-\Yith reference to your memo. of the 14th instant, r0lativc to my application for an interYiew with the Commissioner, and calling on me to answer five questions. I respectfully beg to submit the following answere, and, in doing so, have endeavoured to convey what have been to me unpleasant experiences in the execution of my. duty, as it has been mv earnt "-t desire to please you with my work. I hope my explanations will be satisfactory, and that you ,., ill be pleased to release me from suspension.

" Questions 1 and 2 taken together. " On the 30th January, 1913, I wrote

asking your permission to desp~tch cement from our Countess-street sidmg, with a view of saving the cost of carting such material to Roma-street goods-

Mr. Bowman.]

1542 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply

shed. This suggestion would have immediately put into operation a saving of more than my salary per annum, but you ·did not approve of it. Unfortunatelv for me, I was thereupon instructed to discuss matters verbally in future, which instruction was followed, from time to time, by unpleasant interviews, some of which were more hurtful to me than otherwise, .and from that out I have been treated somewhat with indifference. Carting cement was put a stop to about the 1st November last, being nine months after I brought the matter under· notice, when I requested that my papers on this matter be kindly forwarded to the Commissioner for probable commendation, but I have not received any reply.

"When Messrs. Robertson and Davis inquired into our staff workings, I expressed the opinion that, in the event of the Locomotive Storekeeper, 1pswich, ceasing to draw stocks from us and doing his own shipping, I could then spare three permanent men. I also made refer·ence to the saving to be gained by nnmmrsmg the employment of extra labour, but I did not intend the fact to be lost sight of, that when ' fixed quantity ' or ' indent ' stocks are coming to hand, it would be cheaper to then employ a little extra labour to assist in storing the goods or cooper th, casks, and then pay them off, than it would be to retain a permanent staff large enough to cope with such special rushes of business.

" I regretted very much to have since observed that my above-mentioned opinion apparentlv did not meet with your good favour, 'but I assure you, Sir, that it was given, to the best of my knowledge and experience, in the interest of the department, and I hope you will accept my statement as such.

" Question 3. " I respectfully beg to submit that the

direct action taken by you on the 11th November last to remove me from my position caused me much concern and disappointment, the remembrance of which gave me extreme uneasiness, in the fear that a similar action would again be taken in the future, which, I very much regret to state, ha; again happPlrd, as I an1 now under suspension.

" Question 4. " V\Then I was appointed District

Storekeeper on the 1st January, 1913, the stocks of material, etc., then held were in a very irregular state of storage. Auditor MacPherson was present at that time.

" One of mv first instructions was to rectify this state of affairs, which nece'. sitated handling several hundred tons of goods before thev could be finallv stored in . a suitable way for the stocktaking whrch followed on the 1st April, 1913. Had these stocks been properly stored in tli~ first instance after each delivery, thrs expense could have been avoided.

" A special ' rack ' for storing ' black ' and 'cylinder' oils was erected at mv suggestwn, and had it not been for thi's rack we would have experienced considerable inconvenience in dealing with the heavy monthly deliveries made under ' fixed quantity ' 1913 contract.

[.Mr. Bowman.

Other improvements, as shown in my manifold memo. No. 4 of 6th Jan nary, 1913, were carried out.

" Question 5, " The staff employed in the ' station

ery ' section of these store•·• are also under my control, but the fact that most of this business is done direct between your office and the stationerr storeman puts that storeman and myself in an awkward position with each other, which could be altered by relieving me of this staff or otherwise.

" In conclusion, I beg to state that I do not wish to add anything further at present."

Those are the answers to the <JUestions which were asked of Mr. Lodge. :\lr. Hendren has on many occasions suspended :l.Ir. Lo-dge. He wanted Mr. Lodge to go there and Y?rbally answer every questcon he put to hnn, but all Mr. Lodge would do would be merely to refer him to .his writt~u statement that he had sent in in answer to the queries put to him. This went on until the 28th. I may • ay that on the 14th he \.·a, suspended

and called upon to answer cer[8.30 p.m.] tain questions. On the 16th he

answered those questions in writ~ ing. On the 19th ::Ylr. Lodge apuealed against his first suspension; ht> again gan· ::\1r. Hendrc~n a chance to withdraw the S-uspension. Hll l l'C'nder the ap11eaJ unnecei3"ary. ~1r. Hendren withdrew the suspension and winstated Lodge, and Lodge's <Lppnl was withdrawn. On the 23rd Mr. Hendren wrote to. ::Ylr. Lodge again and asket~ him for his Teason'3 for asking for an intcr\~i(_-'\Y \Vith the Commissioner. Mr. Lodge tonsidered that, the ans1n~rs he gaxe tc the th-e qut=:~tions. submit~ed to him were satisfactory for any Comnnss1oncr. On the 2qt!J a remarkable thing happened. Mr. Lod1re :'ec' iv. d two letters in the one enYelope.-oue withdrawing the SU•'tWmion, and the other sn>twniing him again for insubordination. The b·st letter is as folio" s:-

" 2Ylemo.-\Vith refere11ce to your letter of 26th instant in reply to my' memo. of san1c datr\ ca.lling upou you to sho·w causi' why you should not he dealt with for insubordinat-ion, plc"'e note that my memo. of 24th instant suspending you from duty, and my memo. of 26th instant calling U)on you to show caut-e \Yhy you Bhould rwt be dealt with, are hereby 1-;·ithdrawn.''

On thE' s-ame date :Mr. Hendren v:rote to :Mr. Lodge as follows:-

" ::Ylcmo.-\Yith reference to the matter of ;·our application for an interview \Yith the Commissioner onJ. his inJtruct.ion of the 22nd instant. th,,t I c:, ll upon yoLl to state clearly the subjects upon

hich you de 'lil 'J to inttr':·iew hiln, so th,: t he may be in a position to say ·,, heth0r he considers them ~ufficiently iu1ponant to warrant a pl'rsonal interYiew with you, and your reinsal to compi;, with that instruction. I regret your <:ttitude in this matter ]caYe5 me no option but to suspend you frem duty until further notice-for inmbordination. "'i-ou an~ ac{'ordingly snsrenJcd fn.11n this date, and I horeb~, c.1ll up m you to show cause 'YhY von shc·nlrl r';t '•0 dealt ·with." · "

If ever there was persecution of a,. man, I

Supply. [27 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1G43

bdieve there was persecution of Mr. Lod"'e by Mr. Hendren. It did not matter "h~t Mr. Lodge tried to do; simply because he would not bow down and scrape, ~s some unfortunate men do, and because he refers ¥r. Hendren to his answers to the first questlons, Mr. Lodge 1s agam suspended. This ha.s been going on for fonr months, and yet this man can get no satisfaction. As a matter of fact, his f'illary has been reduced from £230 a year to 9s. 9d. a dav. I shall pro,·e, before I sit down, that this matter h'!s engaged the attention of a "'DOd manv employees in the Railway Depa';.tment. I kno" th~t Lodge is blamed by Hendren for giving the information that the hon. member for Brisbane received when he asked certain questions in this House about cement; and I understand that that is the opinion held by Mr. Crowther and Mr. Pagan. As a matter of fact, however. :Mr. Lodge ha·? never spoken to :Mr. Kirwan up to that tune; until a few weeks ago :Ylr. Lodge had never spoken to Mr. Kirwan. Has Mr. Lodge giYen satisfaction to the department 1 I have here a letter which I obtained through the courtesv of :Ylr CrO\:ther iu anoth,er c<:se, and· I purt;os~ readmg 1t to the Camm1ttee. "\Vhen I went to the department some time ago, Mr. Pagan sa1d to me, "This is not the first trouble Loclge ha-c been in." \Vith reference to that matter I may say that Lodge was absolutely exonerated by his then chief. Mr. Ruff, wh::, was D1strrct Engmeer at that particular time. On the 30th J~nuary :Ylr. Hendren ao-ain ex· plai~wd th~ position, and Mr. Lodg~' wrote to hun askmg for a etatement of the charo-es llHJ.de against him. Mr. Hendren wrote"' a letter to Lodge refusing to complv with his reque>t. There is one !et\er _sent. to Lodge by ::Y1r. Hendren that 1t 1s JUst as well I should read to tho Committee. as the ::\1inister will probably reply to me and comment upon that letter if I omit reading it.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I tabled all tho papers.

M,·. BOWMA:\': I know that. This is a lettc•r written on the 2nd February. 1914, bv Mr. Hendren to Mr. Lodge- ·

":Memo.-Yaur memo. of 31st ultimo asking to be furnished with a statement of tho charge against you for which vou ·were suspended from" duty on 28th "instant. is to hand to-dav, ~nd in replv I havf'. to my that the position was ft;lly set forth in mv memo. to von of 28th uliimo and referred to in n{v memo. of 30th ultimo-viz.. that vou · were suspended for insubordination, in thut vou refused to comply ··:itb the Comn1issionPr's instru~-Jion that"--' I c ,-,.11 upon yon to ehtP clearly the subjects upon which you desire to intcn·if'w him, so that he may be in a. position to s:F whdher he considers them sufficientlv i1nportant to warrant a pr-rsonal intc~Yicw with you.' And I am furth0r to eay that ':on are required to show cause why :on "hould not be de:.t!t ''.ith, without delay."

Mr. Lodge sent a letter on the advice of his solicitor. H0 sent to l\1r. Hendren. and said he did not know what was meant by "instrustion." He was called up t-o the Commir,,ionN's office bccausn :l\Ir. Crowther sent fm him. and he saw the derk, Wills. Wills E<tid that he had to withdraw that letter or

else he had to apologise. Mr. Lodge explained verbally to the clerk, Wills, of the Commissioner's oflicP, that the letter asking what was meant by the word " instrustion" was sent under his solicitors' instructions, but as he (Lodge) had written the letter, he would withdraw it, in writing, as advised bv Mr. vYills. I have here a letter, dated 5th February, 1914, from Lodge to Hendren, which is well worth repeating here. It reads as follows :-

"Sir,-\Vith reference to my memorandum of the 3rd instant, ,,sking to be advised what is meant by the Commissioner's • instrustion,' this letter \vas \Hitten by me without giving the matter sufficient consideration, and I respectfully beg your permission to have it withdrawn, as I think it conveys a wrong intention, which I would be sorry to be guilty of. Th'lnking you in anticipation of your approval to this withdrawal."

::\h-. Lodge did not notice that word " instrustion" until it was pointed out by his solicitor, but when the hc1d of the branch tells him that the Commissioner wants his " instrustion," instead of " instructions," I think, mvself, that Mr. Lodge did no more than anv member of the public service of Queensland could do. Now we come on a bit further. On 15th :\lay, 1914, ?1Ir. Hendren re· opened this ease. On the 18th :Yl&y, Mr. Lodge cla,imed that the matter had been dealt with by the appeal board, which placed it sub judice with the Commissionar. Qn the 27th of Mav, Mr. Hendren was ngam promoted as he~d of the branch. I m;ght here read tho letter -of 19th May, from the D;strict Rtorekeeper, who say··-

'• \\'ith reference to my memoranda of 15th and 18th, in,tructing you to fur'lish neN ,,sary information relative to certain allegations made by you. and to Your refusal to furnish such information, 'i: now call upon you to show cause why vou should not be disrnissed tht~ ~-~rvif't\ or otherwisl' dealt with, for deliberate in-subordination.''

Mr. Lodge replied to that as follows, under date 20th :\lay, 1914:--

.. Sir,-\Vith ref <ere nee to your memorandum 14·82 s. of the 19th instant, calling on me to show cause why I should not be dismissed the service or other· wise dPalt with, for alleged deliberate insubordination, I beg to advise as fol-10\:s :-The questions which you put to me on the 18th instant were answered by n1o in writing on a. previous occasion, and you then punished me with three separate suspensions, and eventually fined me £5 for alleged insubordination. At that time I placed my case in the hands of Solicitor .McGrath, and an appeal was lodged, which duly <ame before tho appeal board. This judicial board in turn referred the case to the Commis· sioner hims·'lf for d0cision, and up to the present I ha vc not be~n acquainted with that decision, and that charge of alleged insubordination and fine of £5 still stand against me, although the fine has not actually been stopped. In the above circum,tances I do not understc,nd why you ;ent me vour memorandum 14·82/2. s. of tho 15th 'in,tant, again calling m1 me to answer questions which I had already answered, and they Wflrc dealt with by vou at that time. Howevcr. I obeyed your instructions of the 15th instant, a.nd

Mr. Bowman.]

l5H [.~RSEMBLY.] Supply,

called r·1 vou on the 18th idem, when nm began· to ask me tbe old questions. 1 tlwn tendNed you my letter of the ~8··-h in· ta nt, "hich yo~! markt•d as 'Exhibi~ c\,' wLe.ein I cl· rly explained the pos1t10n of ~nv case n· far as I a1u aware of its p;'O(jlT' 3, • nd pecially mentioned that mY colicitor still held my papers, etc .. peilding the Conunis~iouer's deci~i J!l,

in which circumsL nces I stated that I ha,-o nothing further to say on the mat7·cr. You subsPqucntly sent. me your memorandum 1~-L2 s. of the 18th instant. 1 1akino: further referenco to old que·.ticll3, and again instructing me to att_nd at "<'OUr offic•c at 2.30 p.m. on the 1Sth ir1sLwt, which I accordingly did. Your 'varning in this letter gayo r.Lle ('Olhidcrabl('· eonC'ern and anxiety, whirh canspd me to tender vou a further ldH·r e>f expla1ution, dated f9th :May,1914, 'Yhirh vcu Jnarked n, 'Exhibit B.' You then bc_c an to put t'·te same quections to me yerbally, and I was compelled to then make Y<'rbal reference to my two letters nf tlw 18th anrl 19th instant, marked .. ' o:hibits, and stated that I have nothing f,Hther to -.ay on the matto·. I trust that this explanation will a~:--nrr>· vnu that mv actions \Vere in no · :ay de.liberatdy iJosubo,,dinate."

I cannot understand why .a man in Mr. Hendren's position should simply inflict persecution on this man from month to month, as he has dono in this particular matter. Mr. Hen lr<•n said that he was guilty of doliberate insubordination. Mr. Lodge appealed to the Commissioner and got no reply from the head of the R-ailway Department. The Commisc;ioner is away at the present moment, but he mi!l'ht have expected to get a reply from the Deputy Commissioner. With re~arcl to the last case, I have several letters here I wish to read. I am sorry I haye to read so much, but I want to show wbat has been going on between Hendren and Lodge. I do not know Hendren, and I have never met him in my life. So, it is not a matter of personal spleen with me, but a matter of injustice to this man Lodge. I consider that the treatment that he received is undeserved, and that is why I have taken up his case at the present juncture. because I do not think that time will permit me to deal with it on the Railway Estimates, or I would have left it to th:tt tim<. On the 17th June, Mr. Crowther wrote the following letter to Lodge:-

"Memo.

" vVith reference to your appeal against the decision of the General Storekeeper, Southern Division, to fine you £5 for insubordin1ttion, which was brought before the board on lOth March, 191il, the following decision was deliYr-red: --

" The officer who made the fine is not the head of a branch, and therefore has no power to inflict any penalty, and the board decline to deal with the matter, and suggest it be referred to the Commissioner.

" The Deputy Commissioner has ~onsidered this matter (the fine of £5 hav inc· be '" cancf'llod on 27th March). and has decided that as the gencral storekeeper now has authority to deal with

[31 r. Br'tPman.

his staff the case should bo referred back to 'him for what action he deems necessary, and :iYir. Hendren has been advised accordingly."

It is a usual thing in connection with disputes in tho Railwav De-partment for the employee to appeal to the Commis_sioner if he h.;s a case that is eonsrdered eabsfactory, c nd I do not know a rase that has ~om_e under my notice where there was more JUSbfintion for a man getting right to the Commissioner thall;!Jthis one. Lodge had so many suspensions wrthdr';wn t~at Mr. H~ndren seems to have wmted h1s opportumt;-·-he simply a:t, till h" get~ thi' _particular power, and again fastens on JUSt hke a leech. Mr. Hendren reopened the case again on the 29th J nne, and Mr. Lodge offered to pro.-e his cv se and wanted witnesses to be called\vhich is not a Yory great thing to a'3k for -two witnesse·,-Messrc;. Pratt and Foote. \Vhat does Mr. Hendren say? Talk about the Czar of Russia ! On the 29th June Mr. Loclgc \vr-Jtc to :\lr. Hendren as follows:-·

":Memo.

" I beg to acknowledge :·eceipt of vour memo. 14-82 s. of 29th mstant, at l0.15 a.m., instructing me to again attend at your office, at 10 a.m. to-morrow, Tue.sday, to again answer certain questions, and beg to state that Mr. McGrath still holds my papers. etc., and as this notice to again attend is very short, I would like permis>ion to v!sit him at once for the purpose of preparmg myself.

"If a few davs' grace were allowed before commencing this inquir:y, it :would facilitate matters. I would also hke to examine seyeral witnesses in this matter, rnost of Y\-hoJn are on the prmnises, but. in addition I trust you will cause Messrs. Foote and Pratt to be in readiness and attendance to give whatever e,-idence they can when called upon."

2\Ir. H. ndrcn rc'plicd a, follows, on_ 29th June:-

''Memo.

" In reply to your memo. of even date relative to furnishing informatiOn in ~onne~tion with certain allegations rnnde bv You, ,·ou 1nay absent your'clf till 'resimring time af!er lunch h?~r for the purpose of consultmg your sohc:tor. and the date for attending th1s office is extended till 10.0 a.m. on Thursdav 2nd proximo, to meet :<"our conYenien'co.

"iYhat vou are required to do on Thursday next is to furnish such information as will enable your allegations to be dealt with. Any witnesses "<'On mav \Yish to call in the matter can be arra.nged later on if it is decided to proceed Iurther with the matter."

\Vhat Mr. LodiTe wanted was to have witnes~es there, so"' that he could say, " I am prepared now to answer questions because there are men here who can bear me out, and I can get these men to testify as to what can be done." But lYir. Hendren was not taking anything like that. He would do nothino- to incriminate himself, and that has be~n his attitude right through the whole piece. Then the case was brought to the Railways Appeal Board. and th;, members of the board were :Yir. PPmbnton, :\lr. Lloyd,

Supply. [27 OCTOBER.) Supply. 1545

Mr. ::O.IcCluskf7, ancl ::Yir. :\lorri,. polic<> trac·· \Y hat did tlw police magistr<.te

say If it waF a question of Hendren asking Lodge a question fifty times he had the right to do it. I wonder what we aro coming to. He wants Lodge to commit himself, bnt to Lodge's credit he has not dono it. He has simply gone on in a way that i'- most commendable to him. He is still wcn·killg then' at 9:-:t. Gd. a day a.s against £230 which he received before the suspension. When I opened my remark· to-ni~;ht. I >tatcd that I called upon Mr. Cro•vther and c\lr. Pagan over a week ago, and ::Yir. Pagan seemed to think that Mr. Lodge had been a disturbing element in the department before. and I asked, " vV as not he exon~rated ?" Mr. Pagan said. "I do not think he \\ .1s." I said, " I think it can be praYed that he was." He was with Mr. Raff, Di.;trict Engineer, as storekeeper. }Jr. Hassell, one of the engineers, held the inquiry. and the man affect<>d by the dispuh wa'" Chief Engineer at the time, and ::VIr. Raff wrote this letter to Mr. Pagan. I gDt thio letter from Mr. Crowther the other day. and I am gk,d I did get it, because it is an important document in this case, as it ]ll'OYC' b,•yond the ehadow of a doubt that no man-I do not care who he is-can havu a bcttPr record than that to his credit. It is one of the finest things I h<t ve ever seen. The letter, dated 2nd Jnly, 1908. is as follows:-

"Memo. " Stores in Trust-Brisbane Branch. " I beg to acknowledge receipt of

your Hl('Ino. of the- 30th ulti1no. intimatin;5 that you are arranging to transfer Storeman Lodge to another district which I was extremely sur!;Jrised t~ receive. In the interests of justice and the efficient working of the department I ft_,, 1

, ( H:.pelled to prote"'t n -:;pertfnlly but strongly against Lodge's proposed transfer. Lodge, in whatever he di<l., acte:J under my instructions, which he earned out to my satisfaction, and to punish him for this (for his transfer will undoubtedly be a severe punishment to him) appears to me to be unfair. He has always carried out his work in a most efficient and satisfactory manner, and I am convinced that there is not another man in the service so suited for the position of storeman by his experience. en:r~~, and ability, or whv {ould haYe mrtlated the trust stock in as succe·1sfnl a manner as he has done it. His .alleged want of tact appears to me to consist in his not carrying on th8 work in a manner pleasing to Inspc-,tor Cassar· and Foreman Sampson. The forme c· is a man most difficult to get on with. and the latter appears to be under 1ris influence. To bring a new storeman in under the present circumstancc3 will have most prejudicial effect on the work, not only through the newcomer's inexpcri0nce of the Brisbane store and of the city, etc., bnt on account of his knowledge (for he mnst become aware of it) of wlw his predccl'''lor was removed. Storeman Lodge's management of thF store has been so satisfactorv that I cannot bu(hope that his successci'r will carry on the work on similar lines, and I will endeavour to get him to do so, should you not reconsider yonr decision. I have very little hope, howeYer, nnder

tho circumstances, of friction not arising, unless the new storeman gives way to Inspector Cosc.;n, which will CPrtainly not conduce to the proper management of the store. Inspector Cassar will also be encouraged to be more aggressive than before. Taking everything into conRider.ation, if a new stormnan is sent here I shonld be glad to be relieved of the custodv of the trust stock.

"l muv 'mention that ,,-hen ::\lr. Hassell was holding the inquiry into the cause of the friction between Storeman Loclgs and Insnector Cassar he cut short th8 evidence- proffered by me on behalf of Lodge. I pointed out that if any blame was to be athchcd to Lod~;e he should have the privilege of offering all the evidenc~ he could in hi, favour. To this Mr. Hassell replied that he would t~kt' Il0 l1l0f{' l'Videll' r,, as he \-\·as quite satisfied. I naturally concluded from this that he was satisfied that Lodge was not to blame, and the contents of vour memo. therefore caused me all the r~ore surprise.

" (Signed) ALEX. C. RAFF.

"District Engineer."

This is the point I wish to make about the letter: \Yhrn I \n•nt to ';he Hail way DcCJart· ment ta g·ct i•. it had never ber•n sent to 'lw Commissioner's office. Even Mr. Thallon had n.Jt _,ern it, but Deputv Commi-.sioner King, ,,hen he ~aw that letter, exonerated Lodge from all char:'e~ that had been madc-.

Yet, in spite of that letter, Mr. [9 p.m.] Pagan transferred Lodge from

his poc,ition at that time to another department-in the face of a letter· and a character sn~h a' :\lr. Raff had given him ::Yir. Pagan said. ''You have got to gv." Ther1. I think, lVIr. Thallon also was one who said that he did not know such a letter was in existence. Of course, he has gone. but :\Ir. King is alive and can bear out \Yhat I say. Now, has Mr. IIcndr0n ,,·orked harmoniouslv with other men that haY<' been under hi'm in the past? I will prove that he has not. 2\Ir. Hendren has had the following jwrsons under him: --:Mr. Foote w:1.s district storekeeper in Brisbane, :Jir. Curnow \Yas dj~trict storekeeper in Brisbane, :\Ir. lV1arks was district storekeeper in brisbane, and :.\fr. ::Yiood was district storekeeper in BriRbane; Mr. Gallaghl'r was chief clerk in Brisbane, Mr. Handy was district ftorckeeper at Rockhampton, ::\Ir. \'ocks was district storekeeper at Rockharnpton, Mr. Craig was district storekel'pcr at Townsville, and Mr. Marquis district storekeeper at TownsYillc. He had bother with Mr. Marquis, and the rc,ult V· as that an inquiry was held, \\ith what result' The case went against ~,Ir. Hendren in 1912. and he was rcducnd by £100 from tlw 1st January. 1913, and tho title of "Comptroller of Store," was taken f1 om him and he was 'imply ''General Storekeeper." .\nd this is the man, with a record like that. who ha> had eight or nino J•H.n under him-I might even bring in ::O.Ir. O'Brien to whose cJ.se w.,e publicity has b{ ~n giYDn, and f'YC'ry word of "·hat was rubli~!wd in "Truth " was correct-this man v. ho h. ' hac! ten men under him sPem~ to mak0 it his bo.,;t, " If I want a m:•n out d this plac0, I will get him out." Has he not endeavoured to pcrs,ocute this man? Ha' be not tried to bring him right down to his bendcd kneeo and punish him, a' I do not think he despryes? IIon. members may think that I have, perhaps, taken up a great deal

111r. Bowman.]

1546 Supply. [ASSEl\1BLY.] Supply.

too much time on this question, but, perso':ally. I do not think so. I think it is a gmwance that should have been ventilated long ago. It is one of the worst grievanceo ~hat I have ytt . known in any department m Queensland smcc I have been in this House. I know~but I cannot sav what I know, because it was private, and 'I am not go!ng to use anything which I have got priVately. But when I went on official business, I asked Mr. Evans before he went away, "Have you noticed the case of Lodge and Hendren?" He said, "Yes; von can;,ot tell me anything about Lodge.' Lodge B one of the most competent men we have m the service. I have recommended him for an increase, and I am going to giye him promotion." That was from Mr. Evans, the Commissioner. and 1 believe that if Mr. CrowthPr, or Mr. Pagan had the backbone to do thPir duty, :\1r. Ht>ndren would not I:Je there five minutes, but it is be.·ause thev have not the courage to do what thev should do in the case of a man like him that this other man is being tJPrsecuted. The hon. nwmbf'r for Brisbane is here now. I said before that blame \Vas attached to Lodge for giving the hon. mcnbcr information regardmg that c0nwnt. He denied it at tho time and I said that h0 had neY<'r ·pok<:m to th~ han. member for Brisbane in hie life up to that tim0, and not for long after.

::Ylr. KIRwA~: Quite correct. I got the information fron1 another souree altogether. Aud even if he did. why should he not protect the interests of the· department and the tcxpayers ·:

::\ir. BOWMAN: No\•-, I just wish to read a summary to the House before I conclude. There have been four charges of insubordination against Lodge. There have been three case' of suspension, there have been two cases of insubordination without suspension. There have been five withdrawals three in writing and two by word of mouth: There has been one fine, and there have been three appeals. In conclusion, I want to say that, in my opinion, the case I have brought under the notice of the Minister demands the reinstatement of Lodge to his former position, and also that he gets the difference between 9s. 9d. per day and the rate of £230 a year which he was getting. It is simply ecandalous that one man can persecute another as Hendren has don0. I do not think Hendren is competent. Even the late Commissioner, Mr. Gray, I believe, left a memorandum on ono of the papers to the Pffcct that l-It-;- dren. as a storekeeper. was not fitted at all, and yet he is here. The same applied with regard to a former storekeepP;r we had. "\Ve know what happened to him. I am not going. to mention his name, but he was reduced in salarv and transferred to another cit>partment. 'I sincer<'ly trust th ~t the Minister will take this matter into serious consideration ,and give Mr. Lodge the fair d0al that h~ deserves. ~II that Mr .. Lodge has been guilty of is SIW'1l:v referrmg the questions that have het>n ackee! time after time and, after he has been beaten at the appeal court. Mr. Hendren harasses him from month to month, until thE' man feels that things are not too safe. l\1r. Lodge, at anv rate h;;s pla:ved the part of a man. He' has taken a mt>nial posit.ion, even a lower position than some of the men that hp was over as storekeeper. In Yiew of the 1rav that Hendren has acted. I consider that I am not asking too much when I ask for the rein-

[.}fr. Bowman.

statement of Mr. Lodge to his former position and his right to receive back pay. I think the Government should take into consideration the advisability of getting rid of a man who cannot work properly even with the eight, nine, or ten men he has with him. That shows he is not an agreeable man. I am. given to understand that, after Lodge went to that particular department, Hendren wrote a letter. The letter has been seen. I asked to see that letter, but no such letter is there. I am told that is one of the triCks of Mr. Hendren. At any rate, thB actions of the past are enough to condemn him. I have never seen Mr. Hendren to my knowledge. Mr. Lodge deserves more manly treatment than he ha' received at the hands of Hendren, who is the General Storekeeper at the present time.

Mr. GRAYSO::'-J (Cunningham): During the manv years I have been a mBmber of this House, I have nBver heard a weaker criticism of the financial admini .. tration of the Government for the past year. I consider the Treasurer deserves even- credit for the businesslike way in which he ·has managed the finances of the State during the year. He has m.ade revenue and expenditure balance, and ended the year with a small surplm. I have listened to the financial experts on the other side. The han. member for Herbert made little of the idea. of having a surplus, but I think it is highly creditable to the Government, considering the increased demands upon them during the past twelve months, that they have entered the vear with a small credit balance. Reference has been made to the Commonw<>alth Bank. Personally. I am in favour of that bank, r.nd I believe that in years to come it will do great work in Australia and assist verv material!'<' in the development of the resources of the Commonwealth. But, at the same time, I a.m opposed to the action of the Commonwealth in entering into competition with our State Savings Bank, I notice that. notwithstanding the competition of the Commonwealth Savings Bank, the deposits in the States Savings Bank arf' increasing by If aps and bounds. I think I am correct in saying that at least three-fourths of the deposits in our State Savings Bank belong to the workers of Queensland, and from those funds the money is drawn to erect workers' dwellings, in the erection of which the Government have expended .£1,100,000. Those dwellings are a grt>at boon to the workers, particularly in the large centres of population. In the country districts ver:- few applications have been made for the E'!'ection of worker,' dwellings. Then, again, in consequence of the people placing their deposits in the State Savings Bank, the GoYernment is enable.d to lend money throng:h the Agricultural Bank to assist farmers in the earlv stages of their industrv, and it has been of great a,,, istance to n1ally struggHng farn1ers. What I am surprised at is that while nearly .£1.100.000 has been lent out within tlw last f1ve years for the erection of workf'Ts· dwellingc·. only £800.000 has been lent to farm.ers and selectors through the Ag;ricnlturn! Bank.

The SECRETARY FOR PrBLIC LANDS : £1,250,000.

Mr. GRAYSO::-.J: Yf''•: but 't ~}w present time there is only £800,000 dn"·' J +IH' c\griudtural Dank.

Tlw PRE1UER: Y ... our figure~ c1'e ~'.Tong.

::\Ir. RYA~: Thev do not ad> anct• .snfficient in the £1 through. the Agricultural Bank.


Mr. GRA YSOl'<: That was mv contention when the matter was discussed' a fortnight ago. I consider they should lend 15s. in the £1. The security of the farmer is equal to the security of the owners of the 16-perch allotments where the workers' dwellings are erected. I would like to sav a word or two about irn>nigration. The hon. member for Keppel was bringing the Government to book the other night for not entering into a vigorous immigration policy. I have always been in favour of a vigorous immigration policy to get people to assist in developing thE> vast resources of this State. There is still room in Queensland for the right class of immigrants-! refer particularly to farm labourers. Mr. Houston, a well-known fm·mer in the Allora district, left Que.1ns)and to visit his native country, Ireland, about nine months ago, and in a paragraph which appeared in last Saturday's Allora " Guardian." Mr. Houston stated that he was successful in persuading twenty-three immigrants to come to Queen,land, and they are 11ow Dn the \Yater as nominated pa""sengers. To get the right class of immigrants it would be good busine.•s on the part of the Government to select two or three well-known farmcro from the different districts in Qucenoland to place before their friends at home the !nets connected with settlement here. I am sure those In-en 1vould be a greater service in inducing people of the right stamp to come to Queensland than many of the lecturers we have bc(m in the hal1it of sending to the old country in the past. Mr. Houston landed in Queensland about forty years ago with no capit.al. He worked on statione and farms for a f<'w vea.rs until he had sufficient money to select land in the Allora district, and to-day he is one of tho most prosperous farmers on the Darling Downs. \Yh0n he went to Ireland he was able to explain to his old friends how successful he was. with the result that I ha\-e stated. \Ve han1 heard a great deal late!,· about the production of foodstuffs in Queensland, and particularly wheat. A da:; or two ago, in an interview with the Premie:·. it was reportoo-

" Mr. Denham reiterated th8 statement made b:.· him in Parliament last week, that the Government would assist farmers to increase the are.a under cultivation for wheat. If ·sound prorJ<:;itions were put for11 ard. financial aid would be gin>n to growers, either in tlw direction of cultivating a larger area. or of harve~~ing the crop. It was the Government's desire to encourage the production of wheat' at a time when in addition to our own and tho Commom,ealth's requirements. the possible needs of the motherland and hr,· allies had to be considered."

Then )h·. Denham went on to sav that the Department of Agriculture wou.ld supply seed wlwat to the farmers.

At twenty-five minutes past 9 o'clock,

The CHAIR:\IAN said: Linder Standing Order No. 11, I call upon l'.Ir. Gunn, the bon. member for Carnarvon, to relieve me in the chair.

Mr. GC'NN took the chair ac•·ordingly.

Mr. GRAYSON: In the year 1910 we produced 1,022.373 bmhels of wheat, the average vield pl'r acre being 9.58 bushels. In 1911 the yield was only 285,109 bushels-an aver-

age of 6.64 bushels per acre. That was a. very dry season, and the wheat crop was a failurP. In 1912 wE· produced 1.975,505 bushels, an average per acre of 15.81 bushels_ In 1913 we produced 1, 769 432 bushelR, an average per acre of 13.34 buohels. The average consumption of wheat in Queensland is about 4,000,000 bu~hels per annum. No industry in this State has been more neglected bv the different Governments than the wheat· industry. The sugar industry has bGen pampered and spoon-fed in many directions, with the result that the industry is very prosperous at the present time.

Mr. RYAN: You don't accuse the Government of pampering it, do you?

:Hr. GRA YSOJ'\: If the Government wish: to increase our wheat production, they will have to do something to foster the industry; and the best way of doing that would be to give a bonus of 6d. a bushel on all wheat produced in Queensland.

Mr. :\IuRPHY: Don't you think that, if there is a good market, they will go in for wheatgrowing without any bonus?

:\Ir. GRAYSON: The production of wheat is a matter of interest to every man, woman. and child in the State. \V e can do without sugar, but we must have breadetuffs. In rep!:;· to the interjection of the hon. member for Burke, I would repeat what I have said here on previous occasions, that wheatgrowing is not a poor man's business. It requires a considerable amount of capital to engage in wheatgrowing. A farmer has to clear his land, cultivate it. buy seed, and. if lw plants 40 or 50 acres of "-heat, he must have a reap·'r and binder. Then he· has to find bags, which is a very expensive item. and he has tv stack his wheat, and toget a thresher to thresh his gTain. The farmer has to pay from 6d. to 8d. per bag for thre,hing. 'l'he reason that wheat production i~ not increasing as rapidly as it should be in Queensland is because the farmers lately have been in the habit of rearing stock, and they haYe bee:1 doing so well out of stock that they have neglected the ·-owing of wheat. If we- want to increa.se our production of wheat. it is the duty of the Government to assist the farmer in some way. and. in my opinion, the most feasible 'vay of giviiW th:"t assistance is to grant a bonus of 6d. per bushel until we reach the 0xporting st.,g-e.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC' LAKDS : The· Commonwealth can do that; we cannot.

Mr. GRAYSON: There are other me:ms l>v :' hich we can do it. If we gave a bonus. of 6d. per bushel for wheat grown in QuePnsland. I bclif'YC that in fiye yeflrs we would overtake our home consumption. This ~-far I bE'liev"' we shall produce about 2.0:JO:OOQ bnshels, vhidi is just half our mvn consumption.

I think the Premier was a li:tlc· [9.30 p.m.] optimistic in his estimate when

he said that the wheat crop this YC'ar v;oulcl total 2.500.0(1!'• bushel'' The grain this vear is the most excellent grain that I have· seen in Queensland, and I believe the vield will be up to the average of any previous ·season in Qu£ ensland. There will be an l·xcellent crop in the districts of Greenmount, Knobbv, Clifton, Allora, Go0mburra, Maryvale, Freescone, Inglewood, and Killa_rney. I noticP that the Premier at the internew I rdPrred to said he would listen to anc· feasible suggestion for assisting the ,,·heat-growing

lrfr. Grayson.]

15±8 Supply [ASSEMBLY.]

industrv. The suggestion I make is that a bonus of 6d. per bushel should be paid on all whc at produc·c·d in Queendand for five yp.trs, .wd f am cet tain that at the end of that timl' we shall grow suflicient wheat to meet our {n·rn rcquirOincnts.

Th · SeCRETARY FOR RAILWAY.•: Onl•· the Fedt al Gon~rnn1~·nt can gLtn+-. a bonus·.

::\!r. GRAYSON: Well, there are other · .tys of dealing with the matter. I notice tha~

tbc· ~llW ~outh \Vah•s PremiPr for nt'xt season has guurantc\•d 4s. per busht·l for vrh(•ai. and I ~lo J;c. sec "hy that , hould not be• done in t~w·c:!l:-;lallrl. \"\"' e C:lll increase our ,~·heat pro~ ~lucuo,n, <-l;S \~·e, alongsich~ ouT raihva;, linQ.", . .,, ' uc·n .. s of tl·oueands of acre" of tho bf'f!._ land in Australia for gro'\Ying \Vht at. The lat'[;Pr the area the cheaper you- can pro~ due , \\-heat., but, as a rulP, V\'C' do not go in fol' la• ·::" cr. ·ts of cultiYation in ()ueei"land. Ther...:- arP large> urP{:s of Inag-nificcnt wheat land on both sides of the railway bet ,,·ccn Ing-le"··,od and Tha!lon. I "as told to-day b,tlL• hon. nwmber for Carnan·oy, that the )Jacldocb of -,·h: "lt he ,' this sea'.Clll m:ar Goondiv.indi contained sorne of th" 1nost n1agnii-icent erops he bad sec•n in that district. Thf>re is on1? g-razi-·r there "\Yho has 640 aPrr-~ of wheat this season a fe-w miles from Goondiwindi. and it is a 1nost magnificent crop. I \Vas speaking recently to a Goon1burra furnH''\ who has a large area of wheat in the GoomliWl:-:tch clist•tc·c, and he told me that he hac! a b:,tter crop of wheat there tban he r•n jHoduce on the Darling Downs.

::Y1r. RYAN: Is that the limit of the bonus you would give ?

:\Ir. GRAYSO::'\: Yes, 6d. pur bushel: it wuuld be good i:msiness on the part of anv Governmmt to foster that industrv. Th~' wheat industrv shoulct be assisted i'n everv possible wa:v, "and up to the present it has· been the most neglected among the industric s ·Of QuePnsland.

::\Ir. RY;!-~: Will you rupport an amendnwnt tc. make It Sd. per bushel?

:\lr. GRAYSON: Xo. It IS a mvsterv to rnt- th:1t rnorc \vh,\at ~ is not produced in Qucc•nsland. Our land lav's are more liberal 1 han tlw land laws of anv other State in the Commonwe-alth, and I 'belie Yo that en•n· indnc-cnwnt is held out bv the Lands Dc"1artment to encourage agricu.lturists to select

1land

in any district where it ;, required. The terms under the Crown Lands Act are 1. ·unh more liberal than those under the Lands Acts of other Stat('S. I notice that the repurdmst>cl estate" in ~ow South \Vale, totalled 676,438 acres, in Victoria 515,604 acres, in Que,onslancl 664,363 :teres, and in South Anstro.lil, 619,469 acres. The average price per acre paid for the repurchased estates in N e'·'· Sont h \Vales was £3 13s. per acre. in South Australia £3 2s. per acre, and in Queenslanr1 £2 lOs. per acre. It will thus be seen that the c <tates repurchased b,v the prcYious GoYermnent and by the prPscnt Governmpnt hm·e hecn boug-ht at a much lower rate than has been paid for estates in other States of the Commonwealth. A g-mater percentage of repurchased land has also been se lorted in QuePnslancl than in anv of the other State· of the Commonwealth: When farmers are ablP to sc·lect land at such a reasonable price on the·., repurchased e'·tatcs, it is a myr,ter,· TO mo that wlwat production doc'' not increasP more rapid!~- than it does. I also notice· that thP terms of purchase in connection with repurchased estates are more liberal in ·Queensland than in any other State of the

[J-f r. Grayson.

Common•' Palth. In Victoria the repaymeJJtS aro extended over thirty-two years, and they pay their interest h~lf-yearly. In Queens· land the payments are spread oYer 40 years, and the interest and principal have on!:-· to b · paid y<'al"ly. In the other Stdtcs, when ]aJl(l is taken up on repurcha,ed estates, they an only gi.-en one year's rest from the paynwnt of interc2.1t and purchase n1oney, but in Queensland they have four years' rest, and during that period the farmer has to pay neither interest nor purchase money. I con· ider that our Ag-ricultural Lands Repurchase

. \ct is the most libci·al Land .-\ct in the whole of the Commonwealth. _'\.nother industry that , •. e haye is the maize industry. The growing of mL1.ize is a poor man's indu:;:try, and it has ly0n t.he means of saYing thousands of poor farmers in Queon-;land. l\fany year.:; ago, wht'n our scrub lands were thrown open for s·•lt>dion in the iYarwick di~trict, especially ;.,t Y~Pnglll. rnany f:t:<cf'tor~ \Yho WPr_e ne\Y _ar,.;,-als in Qu"ensL· nd started b:.- growmg maize. l refer to the Gcermano ,;nd Danes, who make SJ,h•ndid colonists. ::VI.•ny of them went to tlw store arid bought an axP, 50 lb. of flour, i. lb. of tc•a, am! a couple of pounds of sugar. Th''" thc•n went into the scrub, and felled !'eve' or ten acres of scrub, and then planted maize•. From that day up to the prcs<mt they haY•' bee1/ succenful f:trmprs, simpl:v through using the axe and the hoe. ::\1;~· contention it-: that, by going in for maize-gro'v~ng, it has been of n1ore o,-,9ist;tnc2 to farnH'fS 111 Qu("-'118-

land than anv oth<'r crop they can produce. ·with regard to maize production in Australia, I thoug-ht up to rPc0ntl:v that Que:nsland 'as the largest maizc-producmg State m Au_stralia, but I find that in New South \Vales m 1910-11 th,.,. proc!nccd 7,500,000 bushels of ma1ze. The maize crop from 1910-11 to Dl3-14 "as as follows:-

g ~ ~ :-s:: Z! f2

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The•.c .ligures arc from "Knibbs," but it is to be noted that the Queensland figures in each instance are for the twolYe months ended 31st DecembPr of the first-mentioned year. Thus the Queensland maize return for the iweh·e months e-nded 31st December, 1913, was 3.915.376 bushels. In \Vestf'rn Australia, thP P,tate ·whi('h we h0ar bon. gentlemf'n c,ppositc quoting as the model State in Austra· lia for the production of cereal crops, we find that so far as maize production is concerned,

Supply. [27 OcTOBER.] Supply. 15-19

in 1910-11 they produced only 718 bushels; in 1911-12, 401 buehels; in 1912-13. 470 bushels; and in 1913-14, 421 bushel~

Hon. R. PHILP: They grow more wheat than we do in Queensland.

Mr. GRAYSO::'\: Yc-;, they grm; more wheat than we do. \Ve grow more C.lttlc than thev do in \V estern Australia, more wool, and more sheep. The best yield of maize in tlw Commonwealth was in 1910-11, when 13,044,000 bushels were produced. Speaking about tho r•roduction of maize, I would point out the groat injustice that is done to producers here owing to tho lov: tariff that exists at the prc;scnt time. The tariff on n1aize ,,\·arks out at about 10~d. per bushPl, and it is so low that large quantities of maize are imported into ~\.ustralia cvorv vear £ron1 countries 1 •. ·hl'rl' it is gro\Vll by 'bh~ck labour. I-Io'v ran

the farmers of Queensland compete \vith maize grcwn by blark labour in Java v~-·hen we have on!:· a tariff of 10~cl. per bushel., Tho leader of the Opposition has ,;ot great influence with the Prime ::Yiinister of tho Conunomvealth, the Right Bon. Andrew Fisher, and the other member,, of the Fisher Government. TheY are going to revise the tari!I very short!:,, and the Labour party have now the opportunity of proving that they are the fri<:'nds of thll farmc•rs. I would suggest to the Labour party to usc tht'ir influence to get the tariff raised from 10~d. per bushel to 1s. 6d. p·.•r bushel.

::\lr. RYAN: You ought to support the Whitr• AtvJralia party.

:\lr. GRA YSOX: I have alwa"·" supporter! the \Yhite Australia partv. There is no blackgrown maize in Australia.

::\Ir. RlAN: There is black-~\Town sugar.

:\Ir. LENNOK: There are tlwn•·•ands of huf'lu,l-, of nl.aizP gro\\ n by Chine·>=- in Xorth Queensland.

:\lr. GIL\.YSO:": They arc r•llow, not l,lack. (Laughter.) There is n good 1uarket for Quo{•mland maize down Sonth. e.11d from the Darling Do·~ ns we send laq~e quantities of IHaize to intc-'tmodiate st,l.tiDns between \Y~llan,-ura and Sydne;~·. I a:n ple<J.sed to :~y th:t QLH'Pmland maize can hole! it•; own

v:ith any 111aiZt:: t;T01tVD in .L\ustralia. I have lh Pn doiug budne-;s in n1aize with Sydne1· n1crchunts for ruany yc:ns, an(1 Queousland 1111izc, a a ru!e, CJlnrnands as high a price as anv 111aizc ~:ro\vn jn Australia. The hon. 1wml;,'l' for :\Iaryhoroug·h intcwjc, ted about rn.aizr- being produced in tho Burnett district, and I know for a fact that during the last four we0ks many special trains have passed through \Yarwick with maize from Kingaro.v, \\'onclai. and Xanango dictriots for the Sydney market. If the Labou" p;,rt~· were the fri0nds of tl'o farmer. now is their opportunity to assist the primary producer

:\lr. Rnc;: You admit that the Lih0rals did not do anything \Yhilc tlw:v wPro thoro.

:\lr. GRA YSO::'\ : The hon. mcn1Lwr knows quite well that the Cook GoYemment had no opportunitY \vhatcvcr of pa'·sing· contentiou'1

lc gislation. and th":· had no opportunity of reyising th0 t,•riff. If the Liberal party had been YC'turned to po\·V·Pr \vit.h n. \Yorking majority. I quitG believe tlwy \Yotlld have increasrd the duty on n1aize. T have been Vl'"V much intere't.cd in some of tho speeches delivered from the Opposition side of the

Hou'·.' during this debate. and I Hncl that ~l'Yeral 1nctnlwrs on the OL)t>O..,Itc side have h-cpn puttin '~ in a good word for the fanners. I lic.tened with parti~ular interest to the hon. member for Brisbane, and to ·do that hon. n'cmbcr credit. I belim·e he \\·as sincere; but at the same tiine. I ... ,.aited patiently to heaY that hon. member give hi, opinion about tho land tax propoiia l of the Labour party -with £300 exemption. Is it not a \Yell-k"mvn fact that ven few farm< rs in Qneemlancl ould escape that tax. How many fa1·nwrs in Qn(-.!l'n~L.:nd have a capital Yalne of ln~s t11.an £!000?

;\h. KJRW.\N: Unimproved value.

:Ur. GRA YSO::'\: I mr•an nnimprovecl value•. Is ther{' a elas iu Qu0E>n~land rnorc ht>ayilY taxPd than tlw pri1nary prodth·C'r? lie h3.s to pay his shirr• cmuH.:il ratPs. his rabbit tax, mahupial tax. and income tax, and the unfortunate man who has over £5,000 worth of land has to pa~- the Federal land tax. Xo member who has s:>okcn on the Opposition side of thl' House has referred to the laJH1 tax plank of tlw Labour platform "·ith the exception of the le.ader of theOppo,;ition. Anoth0r matter on which I \Yonlcl like to hoar tlw mombPr for Brisbanewho tak()•: a. very great interest in H:e }'ritnary producers of Queen·Jand-~l)eal~, 15

the rural ''· orker,· log. I would huve hked him to g·ivc hi, opinion as to how the Tural workecs' log was g·oing to help the farmers. If the rural wo1·kers' log sees the light of <lav from tlw Arbitration Court. it will mean 111~n" far1ns going out of cnltivation in QuePnsland.

:\Ir. HcNTER: That is not a p1nnk of the Labour platform.

:VIr. GRAYSOX: I know the hon. member for Jdaranoa does not like to hear this men

tion-ed, bPcaus0 he rt'lwe;;:;.t1 nts a [10 ~J.Ill.] )Jartly farmin_g constituency.

That is a questwn that the hon. me'ltl--.: r keen~ rP1i~iousl:v in the bu.rkground 1,\-}lC'n l.e fllH?1.k;.: in his PleC'torate.

:\lr. HT:XTER: I tell them all ahout it.

:\lr. GRAYSOi\: I have been reading hi' speeches in the ~laranca electorate. and there are two mattc>rs that ho purposely avoided mentioning-the land tax and the rural workers' log. Any law, or ·.uggost<;d lug. thut \Yill in>:__•r:l'_re \\it.h J-.hl' f:.n·nH•r 111 th• l'lnploynu~nt of ln" fa'Iul~ _h not ncr,_•ptabh t'J the ;HC'Illl' r'::.: 'lrctor ~etc-. I wa::; Yer~~ J•h•ascd to hear the Premier, in the speuh l1l' ck1iYl'l'Ld h·-~rc a [ ~\v llj~hl. . ..,o ill r0p 1 ~· tn t~- ·, ](•adcr nf tlw ClllJO. iti~):l, y that h0 "·as prep•.rt'd to assist. the primary protlnrPr. and T \Ya8 particularly pleased to rPad in the Prr ··~ a few day; ac:o thnt the Pre ni<"r has >b' c! that he inbmded to inh·odur·c a Bill to r~·,.,.:"'.t ('0-0l)eratiYP eoncnn· I do hope thd that Bill "·ill be introdn~cd. and I ran as;ure the Premier that ht> will gPt all the as, istanc~· I ean gi";e l·~rn in the pa_ .. ,J.gc of s.uch a n1( a~urf'. Cooperation has assisted the prirnary produt ''rfi ''~ Qu<><•nsland Yery considerably.

}Ir. RYAX: \Vhat about ::Ylurarrie'

:\Ir. GRAY SO::'\: Tbt is one of tlw corilpanies that I want to se<' ascisted by tho GoYPrninPnt.

:\Ir. RY.IN: You know that the Government definitely refused to assist tbcm?

J,.J T. Grayson. J

1550 Supply. [ASSE:Z.fBLY.] Supply.

::\Ir. GRAYSON: Probably when the amended schemp is placed before the Premier. he will reconsider his decision. Co-operation. particularly on the Darling Downs. has been a huge success. I refer r: articularh- to the butter and dairv factori<:>s. and I want to r·Aer just for a minute to the 'Varwick Butter and Dairy Company. It commenced work about tweh·e years ago. a_nd erected a large factory at \Varwick, and smce then has erf'cted branch factories at 'Texas. A!lora. and Goondiwindi. The annual me<>ting was held on Satnrdav, and thev decid.: d on the year's working to pa:v 'tl bonus to suppliers whi< h would absorb £1,421. and a dividend of 6 per cent. to non-rHoducing ~hareholdcrs---that is. shar''holders \Yho took shar<>s but do nr.t supplY cream-absorbing £1,912. I think that a ·COinpany which c.::1n point to ~·~uch succe~s as that deserves to be nwntioncd on th<> floor of this House. This is one of tb best butte<· and dairy companies we haYe in Queens:and. It is managed b,- the farmers and bv my

friend. the hon. ;11ember for \Varwick.· whc;. l think. has occupied a seat on the directorate >'ince its inception. And their butter i:; much in evidence in the grocers' shops in Brisbane. The companY also added £660 to the reserYe Jast vear. and wrote off £507 on account of clepr0ciation.

:Ylr. I-Irxn.ur: What was the capital?

1\Ir. G RA YSO::\': The capital was £8,000. 1 trust-I am almost certain-that the Premier will ctrry out his promi,e to introduee thi' co-o]wrative Bill. I hope it will contain provisions to help new co-opcr,,tiYe coneerns, and particularlv to a"ist bacon.curing- and the prodn·"tion of butter. and also to assist farmers to erect flourmills in their own districts. I think it is the dutv of th<> Government to assist these concern's to a <'E'rtain point-provided that the Go,-ernrnent arc P.ecun-d in the amount of 1nonev they· lend. ·

11r. Rn!\: You think it "ill b<> a good ·vote-cat"her?

1\lr. GRAYSOX: I do not know that the Premier has promised that for the sake of c:J.tching votes. I mav cay that I haYe heard more Yoh•-catching s{>eeches fn,m the other side than I have heard in th's House for many ,·cars. I hope that thE' Bill will bp introduf'ed this session, and I an1 certain that th<> Premier will ha,-e no opposition to the pa~::-ing of it.

:Yir. Hl'XHAM (Buranrla): I v: ant to be ··-: brief a~ I ran in n1v remarks on the Finanf'ia1 Stat"Inont. but' th0re are C'ertain poilll· whi< h have not been touched upon b:v hen. members on which I would like to h en• a word to say. I cannot help referring first. hc\vevcr, to the opening of thP speech o~ thl' hnn. rnfnnb:or for Bundaberrr, \vhC·n he >.tid that the Fi~:anrial St ct~;nent -\'<a<< "fc,rfu!h- ·,ncl wonderfullv mad<>." That i; an ubeolittc fact, beeamc ·I do not suppose that '"" han' <>Ycr had a Sbtemrnt pr0s"ntPd ro th{~ Jiouso or thP GoYernn1E>nt partv 'vhich i, so ag-reeable to them. It is true' that a Fircaneial Stah'Hwnt could not bt> brought up on lines s ·ye those laid down bv thP }Jon. lllPlnbC'r for Cairns. Finanrial Statenl(~nts are n1ade t-o suit the exjgpncies of Lhe times. to so eo·nmend themselYes to the I-J ousp and the conununitv outside the Hou:oe that wlwn hon. members go be for<> the <>lec!·'lre for r<>-elcction they may be returned with a

[JI r. Grayson.

majoritY. In building up a Financial StatPment. it mnst be prepared hy the various departments. and I can quite imagin0 that \Yhen the important matters are brought bcfcrc the Treasurer he eliminates what does r;ot suit him. The Gm·ernnwnt must be preJl<,rccl for eriticism from the opposite side nf the Honse similar to that whieh was giYcn by the Ioder of the Opposition when he brought up Cf'rtain facts from the AuditorGt>nPral's rPport, and l mnst gi,-e due e dmm,Jedgnwnt to the le<cder of the Opposition for tl1c manner in which he dealt \Yith the Financial Statement. \Vp arc divided illto two dist;net partit'S. and naturally th<>re '·ill h0 a great divergonf'e o£ Yiews betwH'n the two nartiPs. It was well-timed on the 1 .art of tl;P l~ader cf the Opposition to bring forward the mattPrs from tlw \uditorc;,.nnal's r<'port '"hich he did. I want to deal with ePrtain salient facts in eonnert.ion with tlw Financial Stnterne'1t on line' whieh Wf'l'<' not dealt with b~- the Tr,.asurcr, and which at the JWCoent time should have had con<;;ideration at his hands. Th~ hon. 111ember for Burrum said that this docu·:wnt. more than anything else, "·auld be of the greatPst v~lue to tlw Stah· when our loans have to he renewed n('Xt vear. I do not know that it is going to have any cffeet. It is ah,.ays " pleasure to know that the State with which we· arP eonneetcd is financially strong. but tltat de•> not prove that this particular clocu:o1ent is going to work the wondNs that '' claimed for it bv the hon. member for Burrum. \Yh0n we go on the London money market-although it is a pleasing circum-8tanre that wl' are not working against clroughL such as New South \Vales and \Yestern Australia haYe had-all the States '·'ill be taken on much the same terms. In fad. I do not know that, in spite of the prosverous sea.sons 've have had, "\VC "~,Yoll1d have borrowed money on better terms on the London monev marlwt than J'\ew South \Yales. \Yc have 'not done any better. The money borrowed the other day by the Treasurer at tlw ratP of £4 2,;. lld. per cent. was got o.t a timu of very great difficulty, but if Ne" South \Yalcs had been borrowing at that time>, I do not doubt that the~- "auld ba,-e done just as well. I do not think the mone¥-lenclers at home will discriminate h·ca u"' here and tlwre there is a snrplns. Thev re·• og-nisP that the State which this Vf'a; rnaY bC' in financial depre&sion, suffer~ng fro~n· drought ronclitions. rnay ntxt YC':lr rc- OYPr their position so as to do well on the London monev market. \Yc have had drought •, but it ciid not me1n that, bee a us<' ,,.,. had the· :e eonditions wh<>n we appealed to the monrv ma;·kct, we would not get rca:.onahle io;·ms. It is recognised through' nt thf' world that Australia, notwithstanding it rceurring troubles from droughts, has alwa-,·s bc'en able to pay that which was demand<·d bv the moncy-lPnders. I wish now to speak about the increases coming to thP publie serYants. The hon. member for Fitzrov dealt with that question this aft<>rnoen. ·and I am satisfied that the remarks of both the leader of the Opposition and the bon. me nbPr for Fitzrov wi:l be sympathetic o1llv received. The ·way the leader of the Opposition dealt with the matt"r was absolutclv fair. He said that he thought these increasr·s should havP c0me rcund in the ordinarv course, and then, if nece:;;sary, a general~ reduetioin of salary could hav" been made· ove-r the whole of the sc·rvice. There is verv sound reason behind that remark. I know· of one public servant

Supply. [27 OCTOBER. j Supply. 1551

V\ho has not received a rise for the last fiYe years, and he was looking forward this year to receiving an increment to his salary. but he does not get it because the exigencies of the situation owing to the \Var makes th(' Govemnwnt feel that it would be unwise to do it. 'C ntil the war is over and things become normaL the publie servant I ref<:>r to must rPmain out of hi, increase, but if he had got tlw incr('as0 last year, he could then have affordC'd to wait another four vears bef<.r0 lw got the next. The fiuggcstion of the kadcr of the Opposition that increases should bc~ n1ade in the ordinary course, a.nd then a reduction wade in the 'vhole of the service. would have been the most equitable arrangt·1nent. I think th-is n1attcr chould be rc•considered. Those who \Yere entitli•d to an increase ehould have received it. so that thev would not be in any worse position than 'those who got it la.st year. I notice that the associate to the Chief Justice hac, received an increase of £50 per annum, wherea' the other aS'><X'iates are to recuive the same salarif·~ as last vc.u. I cannot see why the associate to the Chief Justice should have been specially favoured in this wav. ThE' other associates have the same work' to perform, and I do not think it right that one man should get an increase whilst other men doing similar work are deliberately overlooked. The Treasurer estimated a surplus last year of £8,480, but ihe amount actuallv handed over to the public debt rt>duction ·fund at the close of the financial year was £10,743. The revenue actually received was £174,530 in excess of the hon. gentleman's estimate, and the expenditure exceeded the '"timate by £172,267. The amount paid over to the public debt reduction fund would have been larger had not two amounts been charged to revenue account-one from loan on account of wooden school buildings. £27,316, and another sum of £26,678 to adjust losses on sales o£ dchentnrps and Treasury hills. Heally, instead of only £10,743 being paid over to the public debt reduction fund, the amount .should hav<' been £234,471, had it not been for thr manner in which the funds were manipulated-I admit fairlv and correctlv manipulated. I think it would be better to make proYision in our Estimates for all contingencies that are likely to arise, and for that reason I maintain that the amount paid intn the public debt reduction fund ,,hould han• been £234.471. The Treasurer remarks that the E'xpendit•ne in eight dcrartmf'nb and the •chcdulcs was in excP'S <Jf tlw Estimates. and that the Haihvav DPpartnwnt wa> 1' 0 sponsible for more than half of thP incr<' 'Sc-viz .. £141.061-aml he states that the additional expenditure was nPces- :uv to earn the la.rgelv increased revenue. B~t the inc:·e ,_..;cd rcvelluc (:arnC'd bv the raihn:tvs only amount<! to £50.562. so' that it took £9u,168 rnore than that increase in rPvcnlw to <:'arn it.

Mr. E. B. C. CORSER: The more railwavo you have in course of construction the more unromunf'rativo linc>1 you have.

Mr. HrXHAM: I am not going to dispute that for a moment, but it cannot be -denied that a . very largo sum over and above the addrtional revenue earned was spent on thf' Hailway Department last year. That is a rr:atter that should receive careful con .. ider:c tion. There are Sf'veral items in connection with the expenditure that I would iike to draw the Tl'(\asurer's attention to.

How comes it that the expenditure in the Chief Secretary's Department inor>lased by £9,657 and the schedules by £4,504? Then again, how is it that the interest on the public debt was less than the previous yea,r by £37,337? I do not know how this wao brought about, although I am pleased to think that the Treasurer had to pay so much less in interest. Then the expenditure on the Mines Department was less than the year before bv £2,487. I do not know verv much about rrrining, but I feel a great ir1-terest in the industry because so many members are clamouring· that it should have more support given tD it. For that reason I would far rathf'r have seen the vote exctceded, so that it would have helped one of our primary industries and give it a fillip which it needs at the present time_

The 'rREASURER: The explanation is brieflv this: There were applications for mDnev, but all the money voted had been spen't. In fact, it had been over-appropriated.

Mr. HUXHAM : I am V<'ry pleased at that. I am sure that €Xpenditure on the Mines Department would not be grudged by any han. member.

The TREASURER : There was an answer given to a question asked by the hon. member for Gympie to'day which has some bearing on the question.

Mr. HUXHA::Yl: I recognise that, but I had the matter on my notes, and I thought I would emphasise the point. I congratulate the Premier on having suceecded in gettino- a loan floated when he was in England, but it would have been good business if he had made definite arrangements with our bondholdl'rs for the conYersion of the loans which fall due next year.

.The TREASURER: He really did make definrte arrangements.

Mr. HUXHAM: They were not suflieientl_v dellnit.e for us. The whole thing is nebulous, and there is no certainty that we shall be able to lay. our hands on the money r~ext year. I am m hopes that, when the trm,e for the loans to be met arrives, we shall be able to get the money on reasonable terms. But, even if the war should terminate within the next six months, so much money will be needed for armaments, and so much to repair the devastations on the Continent, that money will be dear for a very long time to come. If we have to pay more interest for money, I hope that we shall be having prosperous times here, so that we em afford to pay the additional interest. If the Commonwealth is prepared to lend us money on the basis of advancinous £100 for every £25 paid by us in gold, I hope that the Government will take advantage of the offer to the fullest extent.

The TREASURER: Never forget this: that the notes are really only serviceable as long as they are utilised in Australia.

Mr. HUXHA::Yf: That is a point I want to emphasi;r-. For internal use we ought to he proud that we have in circulation notes is ued bv the Commonwealth Bank with all the secu~it_v of Australia behind them. We do not need gold here, though, of course, we have to send out gold for imports.

The TREASURER : that we should not

You do not advocate use notes internally?

JJfr. Hvxham.]

1552 Supply. L.\.SSE;\lBLY.] &tpply,

2\lr. HUXHA::\1: Ko; I have not the ~lightest obj eetion to notf's being used intc·rrwllv. \Y< haso had acco·nmodation as far as tho CommonwcJ.lth Bank is CDYlcornod, and though some exceptiDn has been hken to Mr. Millar, the Governor of the bank, taking Savings Bank mDney to US'l as capital for his bank, I would point out that

the wisdom of the Common[10.30 p.m.] wealth Bank with regard to

tht\Ir not·~ issue has hcPn commended by financial authmities. Mr. Ralston, the 2'eneral manager Df the Queensland National Bank, speaking Dn this matter, said--

The TREASURER : \Vhen was that? It is rather anrient history, is it not?

:\1r. HUXHAM: Even so, in the face of the criticism which has been levelled at the bank. it is worth quoting. I suppose the Treasurer would not mind a good text being repeated more than once. Sometimes we want texts to be well rubbed into us. as we are in danger of forgetting the general principles underlying them. At all events, we have Mr. RalstDn comm<.nding the Commonwealth Bank notes, and he deals with the issue of those notes in a very emphatic manner. Here is what he says-

" On the point Df adaptability of the Australian note to public requirements I am most confident. It is among the best currency notes in the world, being backed not only by the adequate gold reserves but also by the consolidated revenue and the entire credit of the Commonwealth Government. Indeed, there is no othPr :-:uch currencv note anvwhere. A perfect security for the gold it repr<"ents, it holds the perfect confidence of the public. During the past fortnight, no one has doubted the equality of the Australian note and the sovereign. Even the banks are overcoming their objection to it, for we find it mDst convenient for remittance purposes and for country circulation. I am confident that the circulation of the Australian note will increase. . . . I am confident that th0 25 p<'r cc•nt. statutory minimum (as laid down by :V1r. Fisher) is ample, because it means the average practical limit Df 30 to 35 per cent. to meet all calls down to the 25 per c0nt. minimum."

I think it will be recognised that Mr. Ralston's statement is of recent date, as he sa,-s the note issue has " public c•mfid0nce." Then we have Mr. Russell French. the gE'neral manager of the Bank of Ne"- S-:mth \Yaks, cxpreseing- cqua lly emphatic views on this matte1·. \Vh0n we have the testimony of two such financial exnerts as those two gentlemen, I think we i:nay conclude that Mr. :V1illar's action in taking up tlw Savings B'ank business 'vaR a found one. I am vPrY pleased to notice that we have also the testimony of some members opposite that the Commonwealth Bank is going to be a g-reat boon to Australia. I believe it will bo: in fact, I believe that the reason we are on tlw average paving- somewherP about 6 per rent. to -private banks at the present time is nartlv due to the £art that the Commonwealth Bank is here and doing busin0sR, which t0nds to regulate intPrest rhargPs. In times snch "'the present pri'. atP banks might takE' advantage of the circumstances to get in

[Jfr. Ilurham.

anv quantity of monev and raise the interc st if ·they thought it 'vas to their advantage to do so, but the Commomvealth Bank assists in keeping tho interest lower than it would be otherwisf'. That is a sufficient justification for the Commonw· alth Bank.

Mr. G. P. BARNES: Rates Df interest are higher than they were.

:Mr. HUXHAM : Yes; but if it had not been for the Commonwealth Bank they would probably be higher than they are.

The TREASURER: Will you have a look and see what business they have done in Queensland?

Mr. HUXHAM: I do not expect that the Commonwealth Bank, even with all the prest igc• of the Cornmonv. ealth Government behind it, will do a very large business at the start.

The TREASURER: I should like yon to look up the figures, and see whether the Commonwealth Bank is getting more money in the way of receipts from Queensland than it gives in advances.

::Vlr. HUXHAM: That is an aspect of the matter I have not cDnsidered.

The TREASURER : I should like you to look at that.

11r. ITCXHAM: I shall look it up, as I ha •·e no wish to shirk any aspect of the question. The bank is only in its infancy at the presPnt time, but as it grows older it will become stronger and stronger. Even a financial in,titution starting with a large capital will be handicapped for years until it gets a g-eneral trade. 1 believe that. at the present time, the Commonwealth Bank has bH·n the' bank which has lent stability to our financial tran<"~actions. During the~ disul··"sion the hou. n1Prnbcr for Herb0rt rHferrPd to the wisdom of the GovernnH=nt in raisin!!' the a1nount of ruont'Y on which they paid 1ntcre::;t in tho GoYerninent baving~ Bank. and •ll"'!l''""tcd that it would be good lni!-'inc•· . .;; for tllC G-ovcrumen1 to take surns up tn £1,i.lr0, with certain :· ofeg-uarcls a., to rep a v1nents extending over t\YC h·e 1nonths. I 1-r.U,.r, t tbat I vi':ls not hPrC '·"·hen the hon. member for Here crt "·as speaking, but I read with pleasure what the hon. gentlema11 had to oav, and I ag-ree v:ith him that if a man had £1,000 to i~vest for twelve months. it would be good businPss for the :'tate to allov.' hln1 to put it into tho S1-ving-' BPnk and <rive him interest on tho full amount. In ti~es like this it would be splendid businHs for the State. \Ve know that the F~~e11ch peas..1ntry saYcd up their n1oney in this way, and when the £200,000,000 indemnitv \Ya~ den1and~'d bv Gcrrnan" fro1n the F1·f-u('h Goyernn1cnt, th~ \1·hole o(the ,unount wt- paid in twenty months--all out of the savings of the penplc. A good many of our people art' in the same position rH w. <-1.Dd 1 heY will put their money into the Sa> ;ngs Ba{lk prnYirled you giYe then1 inclucnn1ent to do so. I know that there a.re some peopk who would sooner put their n1oney into a jam tin, because they know it i, there, r.tthH thau put it into the Savings Bank wjthout getting any intere';t. but :_vc~u \vant t,o giYP thern sorno induremcnt to put their mone~- into th0 Saving . ., B,::nk. fUJ.d T-ou c.an only do it by increasing the mroum ''" wh1ch ~You wilJ pay inter('-,t. I might point. out to th0 Treasnrcr that in New South \Yales the:v p&y 3~ per cent. on the first £3CG deposited


in tho Savings Bank, and 3 per cent. for thP rcmain]ng £200 up to £500. The Qucenoland Government might do something the same as that. It would be much better to gd the money from the people, and pay 3~ per cent. for it, th:tn to borrow it from London and pav £4 2s. lld., or whatever it rs-perhaps cvei1 higher than that. I make that suggc:Jt.ion to the Treasurer, because I b(_•liev"' he is opc·n to consider suggestions that come from members on this side, although he may not put them into practice. Thorp arc times when mc>mbers on this side ;_6,-e information which the Treasurer mie:ht well potHlPr oyor. anrl latt1 r on Blight ;-:;t'e his \Yay to put h into c•xccution. ~

The TRE.~SURER: I an1 always pleased to get suggestrons fn m the other side.

Mr. HU:XIIA:\1: \Yell. 1 can supply the fwu. gentle1nan with a goorl man-·. I would point. out that when the. question' o1 making appmnbnents to a cert.:tin board was raised the Premier s"irl that the reason that he dicl not go to the Opposition side of the House was be< :mso the_y did not have the abilitv. It is rdr"shing to know from the Tr0asurer thnt we have some abilitv on this side, and that 've can n1ake "uggp::..+ion~.

The TREA."crRER: I alwa vs listen with gnat pleasure to what yon have to say.

11r. HUS:HAM: The hon. member for \Yide Bay <luring his speech dealt with the question oE . inunigration. I rcC'ognise that for sorne t11ne to con1e irnrnigration into g;wonsland must be of a negligible quantity. '\~r e IH ed not expect to get runny inunigrant~ frorn overs·ua. The devaste.tion that is rroinO" on in the old country and the need of m~ney~ 'nll be very apparent for some time to come. They will also feel the need of the population there for some time, and we cannot expect any immigration from that source. \Ve cannot expect anv from the Continent either, because thev ,\·ill need all their ablf'-bodied men there for manv years. But we should make our conditions a; attractive flS possible, so that wo may attra-ct any surplus populatwn from the Sonthem State' to come along here. At the same time. it is no good expecting people to co;ne here from the Southern States unless there are any rcar-:ona1l~f' n1eans . of getting e!nployrnent here. I do not thmk w~ are doing justice to the nat1ve-born Austrahan: I do not refer to the native-born Qucrmslander. but to the native-born Austr<J.]ian. A case came under my no~ice which is worth repeating to tho Committee. In Fehruarv last a man with his wife and six chilclr~n came to Queensland from the Routh, and he got work hero until July last. when he was thrown out of employment. Since then his family have been living on the charity of tho people. I maintain that there is a big res,Jonsibility in inducing ]Woplc to come here.< They do not cost the State anything. but they pay their own faro to come hPro and they settle her(· as Queonslander,. :--.low, we find that the father of this family is getting into ,a state of absolute indigencP. On0 child of this family. sixteen months' ol-d, died in the Children's Hospital yPstcrdny. The family are in such a stat<' of nov<'rh- that thev should get immediate relief. ThP m-an 'vants work. and he i,, eaticnecl to \York if ,he can g-c't it. A man like this should not re pnt on thR ~an1p bnsis ·as t11 -, f'ri1ninal f'la~s. \Yhat I n1can h~· pntti11p- hiw on the s~l.lllf' l1a~l.;,; m:;

19l4-5 c

the crimina! class is this: If a man is a criminal and is put into gaol, he costs the State £29 a yc ar to look after him. Owing to lhe fact that he is in prison, his,, ife is entitled to get ~s. a week, or £13 a vcar. I can ~Say of lhe Home Sc ':n·tary that ,"hen U]lpcals 'are 1nade to him, he never turns the1n do\\ u, but stretclws every point to meet eYer,- case bro"ght i>Pfone him. Tlw oklest child would also go: £13 a 0 c'ar from the Stute Children's Depa1'tmunt, and the re't of the family £52: bet 'ec·n them. That would make £109 ,a year that would bee paid b,~- the Stato by ]layments to the wife and the keep of her hneband in prison. That is what you do for a 1nan cmnmitted to pri!3on, bu~ if a n1an jg hard up and '\"ants work, he doc> not get anything. In fact, he may bo out of \York and sec hio ,,-ifc and children starving before he gets any help at all. If we \\ant to induce c1Pccnt lllf'll to {'Omc here· f1 ~Hn t1l0 S0uth we ·~rant to llUt thcru on a better footing than 1ve put men 1~'ho gD to gc.ol. The Trt•amrer will not gainsa,v the logic of nty ca3t:>. If we nwkP onr c<Jnditiuns attract.ivc) ,,-o 1vill iiHlUf'P l,eopl<' to carne hPnc from the ntho" Stat<'·. \\'e know that in times gone by a good many immigrants srhc, canlE.' here WPnt to the Southern States, and w0 lwxf~ no\\-' a rll:-tl1( c· of u:ettinu; a little of onr own back again. I sc~~ !hat thP irlllllig~·ation vote has h:'en reduecd from £52,000 t•.> £22.000. If that mone_1· is 3)lPnt on the unomplnyNl. I am certain that it will be b<-ttPr invc·ted than if it had been sent to England to bring out immigrants. In the l'<·n'ort of the C'on{ptrollPr-General for Prisons r('fPn1ncc is n1ade to a numlwr of undcsirahl<'s who camp hC're from tlw other Stat<'s owing to our !a ws being different to the othc- ShtH. In th0 other States they have indetprminate s<'ntence<, and I am pleased that the indeterminate sentPnce' are being hroug-ht into force here, and we will lw c bk to kr•ep out the undC'sirables. \Vo do not ''"'mt undesirables. \Y P want lH'nple to C'O'~'lle and ~Pttle among us and h0lp to shoulder our resnonsibilitiee. \Ve have h0ard a great deal as to what our primarv industries mean to us; at the same time. we also RC(' in the Financial Statement what onr sPoondarv industries are eking. and I thi>1k it will be very interesting to make a comparison between the two. Takc· the fivuros for 1913 for the first four primary products :-·Wool. total value £6.296.000; sugar, £3,619.341; butter, £1,613,305; minerals, £3,857,881; making a total of £15,286,527. Now take those items dealing with our se0ondary industrie' and what do 'l·e find? That they ar:'ountf>d to ,£23.688.789; that the ''ages pa1d tota !led £4.075.191; raw materials \'.:C're valued at .£14.183.539; plant, £5,877,387: f'mployees, 42.363: faetories in operation. 1.838. I m",intnin that our SPPondarv industriC's will have to be consirlered in the future mueh mor'l than thev hav" bc,en in the past. There is a very internsting work iss~wd by th: Right Hon Chiozza Mon<'v bearmg on th1s question." and h0 stat0s that, no nation can bPoPme pPrmammtly great except the secondary inrlnstriC's nr" taken jnto acrount.. Hfl ~ta.tes the position of Great Britain in 1750. m:ior to coal being dis0overed. and the smeltmg pf iron bv mr ans of coal : awl from th"t tin10 on . find gr.u:1t proo-rc•.~,. I-IPr populnJiml in 1750 'vas only 7.500.000. but, •Jll

t~reount of fhe nctiYitv shown in the S('('(ll1-dnrv industrje" h0r pc;pul:1t;on h,''- g-rown so f]Ui~kly th1t in 1912 it ,,-as 42 000 orn. That

Mr. Huxham.]

155-1 Supply. [ASSE:.\IBLY.] Supply.

was the result of the great seeondary industries. Tho same mav be said of America. We know th~ United.Sbtcs of America was a mere agricultural country until 1864, when they went in for protecti; e duties and engaged actively in s~condarv industrie,. Tlw same may be said of Germany. In 1871 it was practically an agricultural country, but from 1871 onwards-from the time the·;· took an a('tiYe interest in Re(onclary induS. trie.<-W<' find tho country has gone ahead with leaps and boundr. If Australia is to take her proper position in the world, we will han• to foster our secondarv indushih, and not have all our f':;gs in' ono baskt't and bcc·mro a decad~nt people. All our iutc·rc·sts are interdeper.1dent. That is to say, agr-itultnre is depend(·nt on th(-' ~;~condary industril ~,. and the ~erondary industrioR flre dPpeHdPnt on agriculturP. · f;o we should sE-riously ('OnsidE>r our position as far as c,ur sPcondarY indu;..tric.::; arf~ c·onC'ernecl. If wll

took this· matter well in hand. we would find !hat our people would be Pmployed during this terrible crisis-mav it come to an end verv soon-and at thP 'same timP we would be ·doing good to the Stat€' of which we are so very proud. I hope tlH' Government "ill rc•alise during th'-' <'oming yr-ar all its anti('ipations as far as our finanees are concerned; but if, through using their best endeavours to provide for the unemployed, thev come out with a deficit. thev will deser~-e <'Very commendation_ I sincerely hope the Treasurer will do something to meet the present position in regard to unemployment. a< it is becoming morP acute, and if we do not prm·ide these people with work to keep them. it means that wo have to keep them bv means of charitv, and that I de not want tlie St-ate to do. (IIear, hear !)

Mr. G. P. BARNES (lrartcick): rhe posit ion as disclosed bv tht' Treasurer in his Financial Statement; I am sure. will be very 'atisfactorv, not onlv to members of this House, b1;t also to t"he countrv. Of course, hon. nwn1ber::; oppositt> are not' quit0 so free, as a '''hole. as the han. member for Buranda, \. ho has giyen '' honour to whorn hononr is due " in this direction. It is an exceedingly plea· qnt thing to knm,- that it has been our fortunate lot to repeatecEy show a balance ,- n th0 right side, and it is encouragiug to know that the futur-: should ran e out all right under proper < ·_tre, a it ,~-·ill b0 at th{:~ hands of the Government in office. If there is one thinp: the people of Qtwonsland should lw thJnkful for, and, indeed, proud of, it i' tho fact that at a critical pr -~iod such as we are passirL~ throngh noV~o. the affairs of the country are' in the hands of good busi:ilf'SS n1cn~men who are not gi-.;.-cn to experi~ mont hrgt>ly, men who under,,tand tlw why and th0 \YhC'r('for'"'. nnd \Yho iuvr:riablv do that which will sbnd th0 dosPst invcstiQ·atio'l in t)O f'lr a~ our financial ad:'f:.inif'tratlon iR concrncd. TlH· f;v t that Ouc~Lsland's ,J,ip

of StatE' ha'" bf'ciJ. and i:), in th·~ [11 p.m.l hands of m<'n who have conducted

it:;; affairs sati3factori1v and balanced a<'~ ount' F·:J well, must be 'fraught with a deep '"''nse of satisfaction to thl' people. ancl particularly so in th.1t there has bec;.1 no WbSti'. I lnve hj:,nrd hon. mernbt L.;

on the other sidt> maintain that good sc1•.ms have done it; but good sen.;;<ons might hhYC'

led to extraordinary extravagance-might have led to undue haste; and indeed. if t}1n Government had listened to the entreaties which hav<' come from manv directions for the expenditure of money, ·certainly there

[Mr. Huxharn.

would be no balance to look back on this evening. Therefore, I say that a debt of gratitude is owing to the men who have had control of Quc--"nsland's affairs. Like many others, l have bc•en struck with the paucity of criticism that has come from members on the other side, and one has wondered what em earth would have become of things if there had been no Auditor-General'~ report, no loans n1atnriug next year, and if. highE.~r above that. thev had no vlatform of therr ov·n upon which they were particularly dcRirous of c·nlarging- :::t this time.

}h. RY_,x: Yon have said th;ct it doc•·• not clPi\E'rYl) eritici,;rn.

:Mr. G. P. BAR~ES: I have not. I do say that the satisfactory nature of the balance-sheet left no openings for criticism ; and, in addition to that, hon. members oppo· site have not risen to the occasion as they might have dono. I like the stat-e ?f things, because the Government party grve every evidence that they are just as youthful, just as vigorous as thev were when they came into office. Thev have been useful in the carrying out of "development works and ir. managing the affairs of the country ; they are just as enthusiastic to-day-as will be seen when the :Minister for Railways brings down his budget of railways, and as may be seen also by the g·eneml statement of the 1'roasurer-things are just as enterprising and vigorous as they were when this Parliament set out on itB career. and this is saying a good· deal.

At 11.12 p.m., ThP CHAIR"HX resumed the chair.

::\lr. G. P. BARNES: But having congratuluted tht> Gowrnment and the countrY. I beli~ve that there are other people to 'be cono-ratulated. I believe that hon. members ~pposit<• ar<' to he congratulated in some cilrertions. Thev are to be congratulated on '' change of front, as has been, perhaps, noted bv mon• than one han. member in given dhections. I do not remember, for instance, having listened to ail-round support such as that given bv the han. member for Herbert, and tho hon." member for Keppel, regarding immigration. I can remember th~ sessjons c-£ Parli,·m·nt when fear and trembling se1z0d pverv nwmbcr on tho other sid,, at tho Yory namf.. when the very mention of the fact of introducing people to the 11ountry filled han. members opposite with the gravbt dread. There was g·oing to be a decline in "·ages. \Vhat was the good of bringing people here when we had u=mployed _here? \YP hav• them spok0n of to-day, but s1de by ,--de \vith the mention of the unemployed we have the strong advocacy of men on the other side to fill up our empty space3. I sa v that members on the other side are to be' congratulated on having turned round, r~aJi-,ing as they evidentlv do-the forces that are around us to-day may have moulded their thought in a different direction-realising that our devPlopment i~n the future can only be carried out by people, and that the value of the country must necessarily be the numbers of the people in it. I should also like to congratulaL han. members on being more diplomatic than they used to be. I cannot help comparing the remarks of thf' lt>ader of tho Opposition regarding the land tax with the remarks that used to be made in rog-ard to it. the gentle way in which he let the people down at Nanango, the kindly spirit he displayed to the farmers. He

Supply. [27 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1555

·~noted that land tax business with a sweetness like tlw sweetest sugar. He is reported to have said-

" The other day I was in Nanango addrhsing ..c meeting, and I found, when I was explaining certain portions of the Labour platform, that those who had hitherto supp<;>rted the Liberal party expressed surpnse that there had been so much mi·,representation as to what our platform was. The matter I referred to was the land tax, bPcause Liberal speakero; ah1 ays fail to point out that, although we are in favour of imposin"' a. land tax. 1Ye are in favour at the san1~ ti1nc of e~en1pting fro1n inco1ne tax in~ come. ,; •riYed from land which is subject to that land tax."

He put it i~ ~ nice, easy fashion, in a way .altogether drfferent from the wav in which it has been placed before this Hoc~so bv various members in times gone by. I kr1ow he stated here he was only dealing with portiOn of the platform, and he omitted to tell members just what the carrying out of that platform really meant to the farmer. If he had gone a little further, and said it was a, means of getting to their objective, the wnole show _would have been given a1\ ay. B_ut he was m o;re of those gentle moods of ln-, and was dchghted to find the case with ·which the representations of the Labour palicy-only partlv told-had been received by his ~earers. " ~ wa;, contrasting that speech wrth one delivered by Mr. Mullannow Senator Mullan-who at the time occupied a seat in this House. It is reported lll "Hansard.'' Yolun,e eiii., pages 281 and 282. Mr. Mullan said-

" The han. gentleman mu,t know that our progress in that direction must be step by step. It was never intended by our party that an ~~ct of Parliament should be pass,,d providing that on a grYen future day we are to exte'Id absolutely the industrial and economic functions of the State. That would be absurd. Our movement is not a revol~rtionary nlOY~lnent; it is an evolutionary HlOYLcwnt. \Yo must gro\v, and we 121n~t ne....-cr adv:.tnce furthe~· than the P''"lople '' 'lo~H we arr~ SUl>PO'-<~d to rcpre~ent. . . \Y l' arc not afraid to ackllo,,c_ ledge what our ultimate aim is. \Vo are not frightened to shoulder the re· :~pon~ibility of that aiu1. That aitn is 'the·. nati( _nal!;,ati_on of the L_e rnJ of produ: 'HriJ. dF~l·;bnhon) ancl exchange.' \Yc haYe alr-'ady nationalised the means of distribution to some extent bY nationalicing our rarlways. ,,-e can also nationalise the means of exchange in many ~pherc.s, perhaps beginning by nationalis-1llf?. our banks. \Vc might commence to nationalise the means of production in a very largo degree by nationalising our lanq. h?caus_e, after all, the means of proanctwn lre more than anywhere e],e in our lands.''

The han. member did not go quito Fo far when he was speaking in that kindlv vein at Nanango. He did not tell them othat the taxation was going to lead eventual! v to the realisation of the objective of the Labour party, which is the nationalisation of the land. That is why I think hon. members opposite are to be congratulated on being somewhat more diplomatic than formerly.

I remember the kindlv attention thev paid in this House to the farmer in years gone by. I remember Mr. Collins, the then han. n1ember for Burke, saying on ono occasion, "Let the farmer do his own dirty work." 'Ctterances of that kind are very different to the kindly expressions \Ve aro hearing to-dav, and it is just as well that the countrv should know what feelings lie in the hearts of some men. Only this evening the hon. member for Cairns talked about co· operation in a vein in which I will be bound he would not talk 'before the people general! v. His idea was that the labourer and thu owner should co-operate. but he knows Yery little of the work and labour of the man on the land if he docs not knm; that oftentimes the farmer's share is infinitely le" than that received by the wage-earner, who, durinf\' the la"t few years, has had the biggest end of the stick. I could give concrete cases of the expenses of working the farms when prices have rul<'d low and crops have been lost, when there has been prau· tic ally nothing left to the individual farmer.

Mr. FIHELLY: \Vhat wages does the labourer get?

Mr. G. P. BARNES: I paid for my own harvest labour last year 9s. a day. There was nothing left for myself. Of late years we have not had really prosperous years on the Downs, and there has been very little for the man on the land. When you talk easily to mBn in given directions there· is sometimes something kept back; ther·e is a good deal of the pussy eat's paw about it. (Opposition laughter.) It is very soft and \clvotv. but bY and b' tbe claw b('COmPs exposed, and something happens. I was only comparing the improved taDtics of hon. m."mbers opposite with those of other days. Sam<> hon. members, like the han. member fm Herbert, seem to be greatlY concerned about providing a sinking fund in connection with our railways and our loans, hut what should concern us more in a growing country like this is to produce all we can and give ev{)ry possible facility for export. In ten or fifteen years our railways will bo at a mighty premium compared with their cost to-da v. Instead of depreciating there is going to be a mighty appreciation. If vou wished to dispose of the railways to-day to any company desiring to take th?m over, you could do so for an amount far rn c•xcess of our national debt. Our desire to-dav should be t{} produce all we can, send i"t away. and bring back all the gold we can. The Premier put that particular aapect of the matter so admirably that it is worthy of quotation. He remarked-

" Foodstuffs are the only geauine cur· rcncv in time of war, and \Ve must exporto to the old land if we are to get gold back to pay our debts with-to pay our interest-and, t!wrdore, the more wh:•at, the Inore meat, thP more butter or cheese, or hides, or tallow, or woo! that can be cxporL.~d, the better for us.l'

I refer to this matter because I haye noticed that there is some danger of shipments being held up on account of yesseb not being obtainable. It is the dutv of the Government to give their earnest· at~ention in that direction. If we are to thrrve as .a community-if we are to be saved from the pinch

Mr. G. P. Barm,.J

l.).}(j [ASSE:.\lDLY.] Supply.

which may come on us, we should do our best to produce all we can and export it and get gold in return.

:\Ir. FOLEY: ·would you advocate a Stateowned line of steamers?

:\lr. G. P. BARNES: No. Some hon. members seem to be obsessed with the idea of n1aking the St.:ttc a sort of general nursing mother. They would take from every individual in the community every bit of selfreliance. I believe in allowing the people to exercise their o\vn initiative.

::\lr. KIRWAN: iYhy not pay the guarantee on the raib ays? That would show some sc If-reliance.

Mr. G. P. BAR::\'ES: My people have paid their guarantee, and we are in the happy po,ition now of having to hand it back to them. I have never advocated repudiation of the guarantee, but I have tah·n the stand that we fixed the amount of the guarantee at a figure which the earnings of the railways in the past never warranted, and consequently it was an unfair charge. Our great business is to export all we can in order to bring back all the gold we can. At the same time, we should do all \Ye can to foster our industries here. The two things should go hand in hand. I have been waiting for some deliverance, which has not been forthcoming, regarding what is going to be done with the Burnett lands. iVe had indicated to us in the Governor's Speech, and there have been whisperings of what was going to be done with those lands. I have been carried away many a time with the speeches of the hon. members for ::\larvborough, \Vide Bay, and others with reg'ard to the 7,400,000 acres of la.nd which still are in the hands of the Crown in the Burnett district, and I am anxious to know the lines on which the Secretarv for Lands is going to propose to deal with those lands. I only know the Lower Burnett, but I am told the Upper Burnett land~ are similar. If even one-third of the area is good, it is the most attractive problem in connection with land settlement which has ever presented itself to any Minister in Australia, and the opportunity should be seized by the Secretary for Lands, after consultation with the Secretary for Railways. I oon imagine what a private individual would do-how he would set about parcelling out the land ; how he would cut it up to the best advantage, and where he would locate the railways and the various sidings that will be necessary. A scheme should be devised which will not only work out satisfactorily to those who take up the land, but would also bring in a very fine revenue to the State. If even one-third of the land is good, a charge of 7:<. 6d. p<>r "rr,• would cover th0 cost of railwe.vs. Roads and bridges should also be provi-ded. \Vc arc 0ntering upon a time wh0n employment will have to be found for men, and the opportunity is offere-d in the opening up of these Burnett lands for the Gm-ernment to enable men to take up one of the farms in that district and work there for one week and then work on railwav construction for a week. In that wav a ·lot of the men who are said to be lo.oking for work in the North might be induced to take np lnnrl, and thP work would be madf' exrperlingly easy for them by having work for them to go to. I am not snre what

fMr. G. P. Barnes.

railways the Secretary for Railwav6 in-tends to introduce, but, judging fro~ the \Yay in which the border line has developed the country, that line should be extended for another 20 or 30 miles over, I think it is the Uulgoa and the Balonne, when it would reach a still greater area of cattle country. :l\ow that the meatworks·--which some han. members have taken exception to-have been erected in Bdsbane, they are drawing tremendously upon the far \Vestern cattle country, and I understand that by extending the border railway for another 20 or 30 mil<>s-although it would still be some hundreds of miles away from the Kidman cattle· country-it would make it possible for the cattle in that part of the State to be brought to Brisbane instead of going to the South Australian market. Speaking of cattle leads me to say that something should be donp toregulate the sale of female cattle. Only last week, in passing one of the slaughter-yards, I am quite sure that some of the heifers I saw could not have been more than twoyears old. The great bulk of the cattle were female cattle. I am told by a person who

has taken a very great interest [11.30 p.m.] in this matter that last year

25,000 head of female cattle were sold in the Brisbane yards, and that possibly the number killed at the various meatwork, was not less than 500,000. The sal<>smen generally are seized of the danger, asthe high prices obtained for cattle are a big inducement to people to sell everything they can. Whilst it may be a very dangerous· thing to interfere with the ordinary run and rule of things, yet it seems to me that· something will have to be done in connection with this matter. There is a very interesting article on the growth of the cattle industry in "Munsey's" of June last, in which it is shown that in Mexico last year 8,000,000 head of cattle were killed. Our cattle number 5,000,000, so that in :Y1Pxico they slaughtered <'qual to one and a-half time& the wholp of thP cattl<' in Queensland. The wav in which the cattle industrv has deYeloped the Argentine is most remarkable. " l\'Iunsey " :~ays·---

" The largest number of cattle in the· world is raised in the Argentine, which, also boasts the highest figure, for slaughtering and shipping of beeves. The latest statistics show that the Argen tine has home 40,000,000 head of live· stock, and that in the public slaughtering-houses alone there were killed no· l<>ss than 500,000 steers. To get a just id<>a of tho Argentine's predominance in bed export>, one need only scan these values of England's imports of frozen beef from all O\'er the world during last year~

From the United States 75,550 doL From "Gruguay 1, 704.500 doL Fron1 Xew Z<>aland 2,152,230 dol.

From Australia 6.907,040 dol.

From the Argentine 57,225,400 dol."

Thos'3 fig·ures show the room there is for \\onderful growth in the cattle industry in ~-\ ustralia, It is pleasing to note the extent to which Rhodb g-rass has been introduced, and the wav in which it thri· es \Yi1ercYcr it has h0Pn planted, but I think morP can be done in that direction. i~hilP lnc,•rnP and other :so~t grasses arc being introdu<:edJ

Supply. (27 0CTOBEH.] Adjoununcnt. :57

there is roo1n to do n1ore, and I arn sure the Department of Agriculture wDuld dD well if they gave closer attention to the introduction of new gTa,;s than they have doile in the Il<rst. IY e particularly need at the present time some good winter grass. On the Do\Yno in wet seasons we fall back on clover, cro\', fc'Dr. rnd prairie grass, but if the sc•'lwn is not suitable there is no growth in thoBP grat"5e". and \Ye want so1ne 1vinter grass which will takB the place of those grasses that dry up to such on alarming extent. Sonn~thing lla~ been said regarding \vheat. I am doubtful \Yiwthl'r "·e are doing all that wo can to elL'<Jurag<! the cultiYation of \vhcat. The ide'! of .-<om<> persons is that the wheat industr. · can 1•e devolup< d to an extent that it has not hL·en fl:;yelopcd hitherto in Queensland. aml T am inclined to think that we are not givin~ tl; lt attention to the scle{;tion of the vari •ric of YYhcat that we ought to do. If \YP can ~~-'c uc IYheatfl that arl\ ru;-~-rc:':isting an,; drought-resisting, we ··hnll do somethin-e· rlwt "ill help the industry. The Durum Ydwat'' have stood the test of Jrought and arc ru.'-t-rcsi-3ting, the te~,t yarieties of yvhir-h are Turkey Red, Red Rus·,ian, Forty-foirl. and Kubanka. Figures given o11ly J'('\'Plr\_ly ~lH'HY that the wheat crop of thc l-nitr•cl Sta.!P' this Year is estimated to produce 911.000.000 bustcls, and that they >vi!! haYe 280,000,000 bushels for expDrt, wbich. Sl>C1kin6· fro u Inf' _lor:y. is about four titnc" the 1arg·e-,t quantity wo haYc ever had for exp n-t in Australia. I am gi,-en to uncler·-taud that the 'l1C<"CFs of wheat culture in the l-nib·cl Stateo, in places Yvhich were pn•viously re~;arded es unsuitable for wheat growing lw.;; bL•en largely due to the intra~ dnction o: th0 Du~·u1n \vheats. and seeing thnt v~-e a"1~ tr.\·ing to encourage- the gro·wth of thi, c,,,-,. •!. I sugge't that :.\Ir. SLntter should he sent to the States tD get the facts first-hal'd. and that tho information should he dis- ·,1inated for the uso of farmers. I 1wve ln'l'P :::.omP l x.-cr :--dingly interPsting facts on the c;rrn, ch of YYheat. lmt I shall 'l'iY<' only ~one quotation fron1 " The Dry Fanning c~011f!.'!T;;·~ Bulletin." It is as follD,VS :-

"But now let us bring the subject hollll>--to t1u~ YC .v doo1 step of the fur-ners. P:"il)r,_ially tho fanner·± who grow T>nrlU.! 'vhL'at.

'· LP; ll' 1 count bridly the history of t:1:s G1)d-~irPn cereal, tho greatr~t ·wheat

n on earth to-da:.·, the he-t of all . LJ 1,rb 1t~. 1--·:-trring none: a ·wheat

that ~,,_,la,: shonlrl rank all other wheats in \-n!lh' , fl-; Kuhanka Durun1 a<:tua1ly do on t1L'- grain boa:--ds of Rus oia.

·-' ..:\.l 1nt nine ~,·c.1rs a§:,o it ,co;,-as pointedly lr:·nn•_r:l~ llomP to SPcreta,r- \Yilson that nutH\~ th:n·-and" of ac l'f'-S of sPmi-aricl ];me!~ 10 h 13 inclwe of rainfall, were 1 · a i tin~ ~omP other kind of an ani1nal

!-'e:-,iclt-~ ( 0:_vo1_cs, ja<'k-rabhits, rattlen.unblc wpe.d, cactuR, f--L"tge-1)rush,

-,_;1d t~H-' d{ ,-:1 generally. . .. Ir was 2. que,_.tiDn of problem. It was

6ol\'c,,1 ::.Pnding Profosdor (:'arleton to RrF,3ia. lane! of tho Durnms, and the 1CDOrJ dollan '"orth of se~d and exponse ac,.;t)Ullt he brought hon1e has groviln Dnrunc hc_.rv-·-;ts in thf' Dakotas and elsevvhr'rP duriug the past eight yf'ars. in the a.g·,.;T< gate amounting to Dver 200.000,000 ·iollars-may:Ce 300,000,000 dollars.

"'To plant a 10.000-dollar st.ck of Duru_u wh( -1t in .a Geld and keep digg·ing at it every fall. as it -. cro. c.nd in eight ypa.rs dig up an aggre-gate return of 200.000.000 dollar,, and upwards is agricultural finance with a vengeance-not the \Y all street brand of frenzied finam·e; but that iR \\hat Secretary \Vil·•on did, and, rnark TilY \YOrch;. Duru1n :=:o far has onlv scratche~l the snrface, hit the high spots only. on the road to a 300,000,000 to 400.000.000 bushP! r-rop.

"\Yhut is thore tv Durum ,-heat? Agriculturally it is the best >Yheat on t uth. It is the finest example of all the cereals in illustrating thP- conservation of the natural resourCC'S of the co, oil."

I hav-e another quotation, but I will not dign•.,s at this late hour. I am sure that the earnest atkntion of the department Fl10nlcl b,. given in that p~rticular direc;ti~m, and mean.. should be se1zod of obtammg fir,t-hand information of what is going on in other parts of th!' world. \Yo have got plently of land Ruitable for wheatg-rowing. but tlw rainfall is uncerhin. The facts \Yhich we can gather from South Africa, Russia, anc! the United States will serve this State in splendid stead. I have plea;ure in congratulating tho Govcrm-r:ent and th.e country once more on the satlsfactory evidences of prosperit;; disdos<>d by the Financial Statement.

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported progreos, and the Committee obtained lcaYP to sit again to-morrow.

PRJXTERS AXD NF:WSP APERS BILL.

MESSAGE FRmi CorNcn, Xo. 2.

The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a rnc:,sagc frmn the Legi"IrtiYe Council intimating that tht'y a'l'l'':"d _to two of tJ:te amendments of ihe LegJslatJvo A, 'l<•mbly m clause 4, \•-ith amendments. and agreed to all the other amendment, made by the As embly.

Orderc>d that the message be taken into non:sid~"ration to-morro,v.

ADJ OT:RX::\IENT .

Tho PRE2-IIER: I beg h move that the Hou'c do nc w adjourn. The first business to-morrow will be the continuation of the c!< bate on the Finan< ial Shtf'mC'nt, and I hope it will be brouc:ht to a conclusion tommrow night.

Mr. RYA='-1": I would like to ask the Chief S!'c-retary if he would be good enough t,o criye me~ som>(' inforn1ation as to what rail~Yay proposals ycill be introducud this 8CSf'ion '? (Laughter.)

The PRE:::VUER: I am afraid that my mc'morv docs not serve me sufficiently to <riyc ftlll details to-night. but I shall l:e glad to give the hon. gentleman th: •. t inforJnation at an early date.

Qn0stion put and passed.

The House adjourned at fifteen minutes to 12 o'clock.

H on. D. F. Denham.]

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