Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 1913

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2520 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

THURSDAY, 6 NoVE21DER, 1913.

The SPEAKER (Hon. vY. D. Armstong, Lockyer) topk th<> chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

PAPER.

The following paper, laid on the table, was ordered to b<:l printed:--

l::ltatistics of the State of Queensland for the year 1912.

QUESTIONS. DEEP SINKING AT CHARTERS TOWERS.

Mr. \YILLIA:MS (Charters Tou:us) asked the Chief Secretary-

" In view of the fact that the board of inquiry on the deep sinking schcine at Charters Towers reported that such a scheme was essential to the ''elf are of a large section of the community, will he explain why the Government have decided that the report is unfavourable te the scheme?''

The PRE::',liER (Hon. D. F. Denham, Oxley) replied-

" The Government consider the report unfavourable because it shows that the financial proposals are inad,·quate, and that the scheme, or its sugr,-ested alterna­tive, would affect on!:: the two applicant companies, and only remotely benefit other mines if successful.''

STATE SCHOOL TEACHER;; A3:D RE :eLATIONS.

Mr. BERTRA~I (J:farr \ asked the Secre­tary for Public Instruction-

" 1. \Viii the promise made by the iatn Secrekry for Public Ins' rl'dion to delete regulation 59B of tLe S;;:ate Ec~.ucaLio:n Acts be honoured by tll' prc•ent l\linister?

"2. For ,-:-hat reasons \)ere teachers of Class I., Divisions 1 and 2. pa·.;sed over in favour of lc~,,, qualifi~;d tea ,hEld, when heal teachers were ap!' lin' ad to the :New Farm and Eagle cTuncti.02l schools I"

The SEC'BETARY :B'UI:, PUBLIC IN­S'I'RC,CTION (Han. J. \Y. Llair, Ips~ich) replwa-

" 1. Opportunity will b give;! to discuLs this nE tf cr 011 th 2 Estim a' "·

"2. (a) The present head teacher of tho Nc\v 1; ann , ::-uoi '· as tr . .Ul· err :1 to that sc!ool from RichJ,lodd Hill (Ghart"rs To·· crs) after an ULbrc:·en period of t-wenty-five years' hjg·hly rneritorious ser­vice in the Korth; th schools >Hre of even classification and C:Lried the ,-,a,me, emolument.'\. (b) The present h< :td t~;;che~­at Eagle Junction was appointed to that. school after adminiot-· ring the Central Sic.te School for bo.;s , t B,:,bane for five. ytnrs v;;ith conspicuous success; the -school£:5, were of even cia .sification u.nd carried tha same emoluments." ·

SECOND-GRADE CREAM.

Mr. FIHELL Y (Paddington) asked the Sec­retary for Agriculture and Stock-

" 1. Is he aware that the New South Wales Dairy Expert has taken the point

that producers of second-grade cream should be prosecuted under the Health Act?

"2. \Viii. he obtain a report from the proper officer on tho matter?"

The SECRET AU Y FOR AGRICULTURI!] (lion. J. \Vhite, Jiusgra,;e) replied-

" 1. No. "2. Y.es."

EsTABLISH)IE!oiT OF HIGH SCHOOLS.

Mr. COYNE. (Wanego) asked the Secretary for Public Instruction-

" Is it just that any more high schools should bo established, considering that small sums cannot be founi! for the erec· tion of shelter-sheds, and other urgent and ncc;JSS<lry requirements for numerou:::, primary schools in country districts?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION replied-

" Tho institution of tho new system of scholarships, with its liberal allowances, lessens the need for additional high schools in large.centres; in country loca]i. ties secondan· education can L<1 prov1ded in ~n inexpensive way by establishing a secondary department in existing State schools."

RENARD ROAD TRAIN.

Mr. FIHELL Y asked the Secretary for Raibays- ·

" 1. Is there any truth in the statement that tho very expensive experiment, known as tiw I:enccrd train, has been de· roved bv fire?

"2: lf s,;, was the train covered by in· sur ...:.nee, or is it a doad lor·.J ?"

Tho SE\RETAHY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. W. 1'. P.1g.:t, Jiaclcay) replied-

" 1. The Renard train has not b~en dcctn,·cd b,· fire. 1'lw body of the small pa'. onger cttr belonging to the train was hLlrnt at 3 a.m., 14th Uctobvr last.

"2. No; the cl.;:Jartment carrie.; its own risk.''

BRISBAKE TRAX.WAYS BILL.

THIRD READING.

On the motion of the PRE21JIER, this Bill rc :.d a third time, was ordered to be tra~s:nittod to the Lcg-i3lative Council by meosa<;e in the UCcu:tl form.

SUPPLY.

RE.~U}JPTIOC1 OF CmnnTTEE-FOURTEENTH ALLOTTED DAY.

(Mr. J. Stoda1't, Logan, in the chair.)

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICCLTT:RE AND STOCK. MISCELHNEOUS SERVICES.

Question-That £9,200 be granted for "Miscellaneous Services "-again stated.

Mr. FIHELLY: Before the vote went through, he would like to have a word from the Minister as to refrigeration on Northern steamers. .Last year the vote wets exceeded by £900, and an increase of. 300 per cent. en the am.ount voted was somewhat unusual, and

Supply. [6 NOVEMBER.] Supply, 2521

he was surprised that the Minister had not realised tho fact and taken the Committee into his confidence. \Vhilst on the subject, he thought the Minister should make a point Df withdrawing some statements he made in regard to himself. For instance, the hon. gentleman alleged that he had said that the quantity of butter produced in Queensland had decrea,ed. He knew that that was wro_ntr but he had not made a statement to the House so far.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : I ad­mitted that.

Mr. FIHELL Y: Secondly, the Minister denied his statement that the quality of the butter had deteriorated. He took that in­formation from the report of the Under Secretary, and he thought it was due to the Minister to tell the House that he was cor­rect in his quotation.

Mr. E. B. C. CoRSER: Experts are of quite a different opinion.

Mr. FIHELL Y: The document itself stated that the quality of the butter was steadily getting worse. One or two shipments could not get ste~,tdily wwse, and the Minister should state that that appeared in the report, and in so far as he (Mr. Fihelly) got his in­formation from the report, he V>as correct. There was another matter to "hich he wished to refer, and that was a vote that appeared last year of £1,000 for a State collection of wild animals and birds. He would like to know whether any of that had been expended.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : I do not think so.

Mr. FIHELL Y: Or what the department. proposed t<J do in cDllecting wild animals. The hon. member for Drayton V>as not there, but perhaps the Minister might give them s<Jme information.

Mr. ADAMS0:;:\1' (Rockharnzdon) : He would like to say a word in regard to tho vote for re ,en es. They had h,.d a short discuR1i•m in regard to the Botani" Gardens Dn another vote, which was not the right vote. He thour,ht that anyone who went to the gardens at Rockhampton would Pcy tknt the work that was being dono for tho t'Xtra money that was voted ]a,t year was ""Weedingly " good; that thev w<ere being beautified "nd that they were anwng the b0st in Queensland~even amongst the best in Australia for their size and the amount of mono: that was expended on the-",1. They would like to see some special grant being givf n to Rockhnmpton as well as to Bris­bc ne. He noticed that there were amounts totalling about £4,565 to be S!Jent in th Botanic G -rdens in Brisbane and Dn ::\fount G::>at-thu, ___ ,d. in h;s opiuion, the Rockhampton Botanic GardC·L , 2rc superior to thore at Bl'i l ~no, · bu" tbc amount of money be in:,­Sl'' nt bv the Government ., as altDgether in­~-'JoL;upt0 to th,• 'vork that \\as being done. lie :-auld like to "ay that the curator \\<1S .Jne of Ow lllC,~t c,·.nable mo:l O.arragcd in . th:'lt kmd of work in ~/uee: 1,,nd. lie v dS dad to s- c th~t !1le :\IiL,_i<;ter v ~ts goin1 up :-o the C-ntral di·•ri"t, and was going t<J visit tho Gi_ die and c1

.' arren Sht~ farm'., and he hoped that he v vuld go to the Hockhampton Botanic Gard<ens, a-nd see what it was necessary to do the1·e, and also . t Victoria Park. He hoped that h~- \\Ould sc-<: tL.tt the Central district got : Jt ,ething like a fair thing.

Mr. MORGAN (Murilla): He would like to ask the Minister whether he did not think that the time had arrived when the grant to

agricultural and horticultural societies should be distributed in a different mann,or 'I He thought that they should grade their different societies "o that the small •ocietic, would get greater help than the large societies which already had a tremendous amount of funds at their disposal. He thought that the larger societies <Jbtaincd the maximum amount that could be given to any society under the vote. He believed there were four, if not more, societies which received that particular amount, and in his opinion theY were the fDur societies to which the lea~t assistance should be given. They were 'Ocieties which were supported b3 thousands and thousands of people from different parts of t.he State, anc;!, as the L:nder Secretary said in his report, they were gradually re­solving themselves into ring events .. He was pleased to notice that this year agam a sum was put down for the preparation of ex­hibits, the amount being increased from £500 to £1,000. That was a splendid move on the part of the Minister, and there v, as no doubt that the agricultural exhibits sent round to different agricultural societies' shows last year were a credit to the depart­ment. He hoped that the P~hibits would be sent to many shows during the coming year, so that the shows might be made a< practical a,• possible. vV.th regard to the amount voted for wiLl ai•imals last year, he was very pleased t<J know that it had not been spent, and that it was wiped out this yP.ar, berause the money could be used for b<·tter purposes for many years to com.e than in providing wild animals for the grati­P.• :.tion Df a section of the people only.

Mr. E. B. C. CORSER (Maryborough\ did not agree with the hon. member for J\!urilla that the endowment to established agricultural societies should be decreased. Some of those associati<Jns "er,.. doing very good 11 ark­work which was just as nece•,:;uy as that done by tho young a•-sociationc:. 'I'he :C.Iaryborough associatic,n Ia ·.t year offered as much as £50 in prize,- in connection with clair ·ing, and he did not think an,- portion cf the State had made so much progress in dairying as the \Vide B .. v and Burnett di,trict had done­some eid1t butter fartories in full work. He noticed that there were no le·s than eighte:m insnectors in connection \Vith tho a·~n1injs~ tratiDn of tho Disuses in Phnt- Act. lie tltom:ht the time had arriYcd -.. hen they should h.1VO an inspector in tLe ide Bay a.nd Burnett disti·i<>t for potatoes, frmt.s, etc., the e1me , ,, the' had in Rockh~mphm a' --'1 el-e~·-hcr.•, and belic,·r,d ,hat the :\linif .'r had some intention in that direction. He hDpc! th' hoP. g. nc\e:nan \Y0.1Jd Je< the '11 knOW what he propo',•-d to do in lhis conn0c,iDn. He agr cd with '.he hon. mombco: for Rock­lutn1p~on as to thr necc;[il··y of an mnount of mono" being placed ,c;I tLe Estim:' cs for bot::mio JJ gardens oth -r than t;.1o;-' in Brisbane. A sum of £2.785 was prm-idc-1 for "ll1o Bris­b.1no Botanic Gardens, :: nd a sum of £450 for ligh+in,-, ,. hich mado a ·total of £3,235. H0 did not sa:· that too much wcs spent on tho I' risbane Bot-anic Gardens, LEt he did say that thm e were oth~r places lcJ .• ides Brisbane, and that tho people in Jar .,e centre. out,.ide the metr-Jpolis had just as much right to ex­pect that their botanical gardens would be kept in order, so that th• y might have a good plea:.-ure resort, as had tho pcoiCle of Brisbane t<J get a gTant from the State. The han. member for Paddin"ton •tated that the re­port of the Agricult-ural Department showed that there was an increase in the quantity of

Mr. E. B. G. Corser.]

2522 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

lo,; -grade butter last year instead of a de­crease. He asked the hon. member to look at the report of :\Ir. Graham, who was the Dairy Expert.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! I hope the hon. member is not going through the Estimates that have been passed.

l\Ir. E. B. C. CORSER: No; he was not going to do so, but a statement had been made bv the hon. member for Pa,idington, which would get into "Hansard" and would have the effect of mis!c:J.ding people inside Queensland and outside Queensland if it was not contradicted, and that statement "as that low-grade butter in this State was on the in­crease instead of on the decrease, as the re­ports of the experts proved. :\lr. Winks, ·the senior butter-grader, in his report, cvrrobo­rated the statement of the Dairy Expert that there was a decrease and not an increase in the quantity of low-grade butter manufac­tured in Queensland.

Mr.· FIHELLY: Look at page 25 of the re­port.

l\Ir. WINSTAKLEY (Queenton) was glad tv hear the Minister say a night or two ago that it was his intention to visit the North during the recess. The people of Charters Towers would be pleased to see him there. \Vhen the Estimate, were previously under consideration, he asked the l\Iinister if there was any possibility of the travelling exhibit being sent as far a· .. Charters Towers, but the hon. gentleman did not give any direct pro­mise in the matter. He should Ge glad if the hon. gentleman '' ould make some announce­ment in regard to thi, request. He also asked the ::\lini•,ter what ;,ere the prospects of getting a demonstration farm e'tablished at Charters Towers. Tho hon. gentleman made no reply to that qucc tion. \Yith regard to what had )-~en said about assisting small a.gricultural and horticultural societies, hG reiterated what he had said on a pre·,ious occa;·i<Jn, that son1c societies which 1.vere not veery small were c<Jn,,idcrcd to be outside the class for which a subsidy should be granted, and that it was i•<'COF3ary that oome provision should be made for granting a su1"idy to pastor. I, a :::ric nltural, and horticultural socie­ties. Th" Charters Tow< :·s Horticultural Society "'as doing as fine work as any similar society in the t\tatc. and they had to do that Y.'ork without any assi tance from tho Govern­ment. He thought that that and similar socie­ties should receive some reco~nition from thP Government in tho shape of a subsiclv or grar.t for the spcendid work they were doing in the Rta tr·.

l\Ir. B. H. CORSER (Burnett) was very pleased to find that no provision "a, made this vear for a collection of wild animal'·· and birds, because he considered that was quite unncce;;•.arv while there was so much other work for the Department of Agriculture to do. He observed with regret that the We,t­hrook Shte Farm was now under tho Home Secretary's Department. Some ycar6 ago they spent a _':{reat amount of n1onev in securing grape vines which were phylloxera proof from the '·onth of France, Spain, and America. Those mother vines were planted at the IY estbrook State Farm. There were some 800 plants whinh were phylloxera proof, and no doubt they were not valued now that the farm was under the Department of the Home Secretary. They had heard that phyl­IDxera was spreading to a great degree in the Enoggera district.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Oh, no!

[Mr. E. B. G. Corser.

l\Ir. B. H. CORSER: Thousands and .thous­ands of vines could be raised from cuttmgs tf the mother vines were .attended to now, but they wore going to waste.

The HoME SECRETARY: No; we have hundreds of cutting" put in.

l\lr. B. H. CORSER : Yes ; but not the phylloxera-proof varieti:s. They ":ere not distributed among~t agrtcultural socwtres in agricultural districts.

The Hoii!E SECRETARY: As far as we can, we make them available.

:Mr. B. H. CORSER: He referred w phylloxera-proof vine"; the Home J?epart­ment did not know of then exrstence. Agricultural societies were cruving for edu­cation in this matter, and fear-ed the result of phylloxera spreading. It had not S[lread very fur at the present time, and he believed that steps were taken to preve':'t rts spread, but as in the case of diseases m stock so rt was the case of diseases in plants; disease spread and they heard nothing about it until rt had spread to such an extent that it was almost impossible to combat rt. The 800 mother vines which were planted at the Westbrook State Farm were the largest collection of phY lloxera-proof vines that was held by any Government in Australia, and cuttmgs werH asked for by fruit experts in other States. The varieties cultivated at Westbrook had been propagated from wpd. va.rieties of America and tho be,t vanetres m France and Spain. Yet the Agricultural De-

partment pusscd them over, and [4 p.m.] the ao;ricultural socrettcs through-

out duoonsland would be only too pk:lSod to work in with the .Agricnl~ural De­partment and eshblish plots for th~rr propa­gation and distribution. Those prunmg, would produce> thousands and thousands of stock, ar d on those stork they could work the parti­cular varietie, which did well in particular distric~s. If thev had those stocks, they w;:)Uid be able to propagate phylloxera-proof vme;, and th<en there would be no need to fear that fearful di-.case. To-clay th<'y had only one man looking after the fruit industry in Queens­land, which wao previously in the charge of Mr. Benson and his aesistant, Mr. Voll~r. Prcviouslv thev had two viticulturists, while to-da·; th'eY had only one man attrndin!!,' to the ,:hole ~-,ork. He hoped the Home Secre­tarv and the Minister for Agriculh;re would work too-ether in that matter, eo that every pruning a from those vines would be ser;t into the <.:Ountry to produce stock on whrch. to work the various varieties of grape vmes which were suitable to each district, ~nd thus save Queensland from the ternble phylloxera disca?.e.

:\Ir. LARC0::\1BE ([{ eppe/) true ted that the Minister for Agricultur,, would see that the amount available foy the Rockhampton Botanic Gardens and other country gardens "ould not be lower this y;,ar than it was Ia't. vear. Brisbane, it was admitted on all sides; had been treated very liberally, and Rockhampton and other t_owns in . Que~ns­land should not be treated m a parsrmomous manner. There wa•· no doubt of the value of the Rockhampton Botanic Gardens as a distributing centre for Central . Queensl.am:!. Those gardens did a great deal m the drstrr­bution of plants in Central Queensland, and a reduction in the amount previously allow.ed would seriouslv hamper that work. Wh•le he had no desire to disparagr; the Brisbar:e Botanic Gardens, he would pomt out that 1t had been admitted by visitors from the South

Supply. [5 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 2523

that the Rockhampton Botanic Gardens com­pared very favourably with any gardens in Australia. He pointed out that there were no recreation reserves in those places. They had tried now for years to obtain recreation reserves at Yeppoon and Emu Park, and he trusted the Minister would do his best to sep, that recreation resen·es were set apart in both places. The :r:resent inhabitants should ;not suffer through the fault of past generatwns.

Mr. O'SliLLIVAN (Kennedy) said that on the Great Northern Railway there was great need for the establishment of experimental plots.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! That matter has been dealt with on a previous vote.

Mr. O'SULLIVAN hoped the Minister, when he was making his promised visit to the North, would see that experimental plots were started along that line of railway.

'l'he CHAIRMAN : Order ! Mr. 0' SULLIY AN : There were many

things that could be grown in such plots, and he hoped something would be done in the matter.

Mr. MAY (Flinders) wished to bring under tho notice of the Minister the questinn of the Camooweal caves. He was not asking the Government to put an'· money on the E;timate' in connection with those caves, but merely that when surveyors were out in that district surveying resumptions they would bo asked to explore those caves and make a fresh report, so that the people of Queensland would know what they had in that district. The last report in regard t·J the Camooweal caves was made in 1896, which was a good many :;ear<< ago. Those caves were still there in their pristine beauty, and very few people knew of them. \Vhen he mentioned tho matter last Year it was thought that he was telling a f'anciful tale, or prevaricating; in fact, that he was lying.

HONO"LRABLE :;\'IEJ\IBERS: No, no! (Laugh­ter.)

Mr. :\LAY: He hoped something would be done in tho matter.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Han. J. \Yhitr, Jfusrtravc): Tho deputy leader of the Opposition had referred to the fact that the amount of £100, whif'h was on the Estimates la.-;t vear in connection with the Chillagoe caves, 'had been taken off this )Bar. He (Mr. \Vhite) had no idea that the- Chillagoe caves were such a beauty 3pot. HP had driven past them two or three times and had ncyer taken the uouble to enter the caves, a~;~ the man \vho y.;as d:.'iving hi1n said it was not worth the lrouble. He was pleased, however, to hear th ~t they were such a beauty spot, and he would e!Hl.eaYOUl' to have the amount of £100 restored to the Estimates next yea.r. (Hear, hear!) The hon. member for Paddington had referred to the question of wild animals. None of the money nlaced on the Estimates last vear had beei:t snent, nor was it likely to be spent. With regard to the butter question, hB thought the hon. member for Paddington was confusing thP "eport in rPgard to the quality and production of butter with Mr. Allen's report. :Mr. Ailen was Government agent in London, and in his quartPrly re­port he stated that the quality of the butter had been deteriorating.

Mr. FIHELLY: This is Mr. Allen's annual report, and it is incorporated in the Under Secretary's report.

The SECRETARY FOR AG RIOULTURE : Mr. Allen's report was made with the object of getting the dairy people to improve the quality of their butter. (Hear, hear ! ) In regard to the question of agricultural show.s, i,1 this year's report there was something m the direction referred to by the hon. mem­ber for Murilla-that, owing to the small amount that had been paid to agricultural societie,,-about 3s. 9d, in the £1 this year­it was a question as to whether the grant to the larger oocieties should not be reduced or uliminated altogether. However, that was a queEtion of policy that would have k> be considered by the Cabmot. The pre­paration of e'<hibits was also referred to by the hon. member for Muri\la_, and there wa.s no doubt that those exhibits were of great importance to many agricultural shows last year. In fact, the department m~4e up two exhibits so that they could. exhibit at more showd than would otherwise have been the case. He would y,oint out that the department was spending a g_reat de:tl more now in sending exhibits of primary products to Great Britain. In nearly every ship that loft Queensland they sent exhibits to the ,,\gent-General, and arrangemm;rts. were being made with the agricultural someti.es. through­out Queensland to make up. exhibits. reJ?re­senting the products ?f their own distrwt ; and, if they were considered worthy of send­ing home th<'\' would he sent to the Agent­General, 'who. would exhibit them in the windows of tho Agent-General's Office. That would haYe a particularly good eff~ct, and it "·auld be much bettor than puttmg in a little exhibit of one district and a little exhibit of another district. That was the r~ason why the vote had been in~rea~e.d. He 'vould have very much pleasure, m VISit­ing the Roekhampton Bota_nic. Gardens when going to the \Yarren and Gmdie State Farms. Xo doubt they were beauty spots i but they wr:re not the only beauty spots m Queen.s­lnnd. The hon. member for Carnarvo~ sai.d th· re were a great many beauty .~pots m his di,trict and the hon. member did not want am· m~ney at all in connection with them. Ali he wanted was for the Government to n ·;erve the beaut:~ spots in his district. The vote for ga;·dens throughout Queensland was not a very large one, but there h~d been a special grant for ~evoral :vears .. The first special grant as given bv Dr. Kidston, and amounted to £3,000. It was reduced to £2,000 afterwards, and last year it was stated in the House that the grant would not be continued ; but there were .so rnany r.cople wanting it that he and his prede­cc.• 'or, tho Secretary for Lands, represented strongly to tho Cabinet that the grant sho';lld be continued for another year. A portwn of the grant was paid last year, but he :vas not quite sure whether It would be possible for the Se~retary for Lands and himsel.f ~o conti nne it. It was when tho present Mim~­ter for Hailwavs was the Secretary for Agn­culture that the amount was put on the Estimates, and he did not know \vhether the hon. gentleman was to be congratulat?d .or not. He thought 'tho people of each distriCt should beautify their own gardens. As far as the Brisbane Botanic Gardens were con­cerned he was sure there was not a single memrn:r of the House who grudged the money spent upon them. It was very cheering tO> see the number of people who went to th& gardens on Sundays and in ~he evenings and enjoy them the way they did.

Mr. MuRPHY: They go to listen to the band. (Laughter.)

Han. J. White.J

2524 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECRETARY J!'OR AGRICULTURE: }:'he hon. member for .Maryborough and the hon. member for \Vide Bay mentioned the ;nattor of eit~·us fruit growers in the Mary­oorough d1stnct. If the frmtgrowers in that district vrerG anxious to have an inspector under the Disc,.ses in Plants Act and were "illing that he should gazette the whole of the district under the Act, and root out the trees--

Mr. BooKER : I hope you will not.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It was of no usc appointing an inspector under the Diseases in Plants Act in any dis­trict unle·;s the Act. was in force there. He was inclined to think that at a very early date the same action would ha> e to be taken here as was taken in Taomania and other places. That was the way they had been able to do so much in reg;nd to their fruit. If the D;oeases in Plants Act was· enforced through the whole of Queensland, a very large expenditure of public money would be required to carry out the work, and there would be a good deal of dissatisfaction to some of thNe who had rather dirtv orchards. He would like very much to enforce the Diseases in Plants Ad in the Maryborough district. The matter would have to be con­sidered, but he would like to know from the han. member for Maryborough and the han. member for \Vide Ba:; whether they thought the people of their own districts "·auld appreciate it.

Mr. E. B. C. CoR."ER: The inspector, but not the othH.

The SECHETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: An impector would not have sufficient to do in the di trict, but he would consider the watter of nu.king investigations and if a fruit in'.pector v~as requir<>d there he would be appointed.

Mr. E. B. C. CORSER: Al·-o for potatoes.

ThD SECREV, RY FOH AGRICULTUHE: An inspector of potatoes would not have much . to do. And if they were inspected here, 1t would not matter, becau''e they ,,,;re inopocted at the port they wont to.

Mr. E. B. C. ('ORSER: In,pection would be " pro' ;ction to a larg~e extent.

The SECRETARY FOH AGRICULTURE: It wo~!]d be pro tee.; ion to some extent, but not to a L rge extent. The hon. · 'lCPJber for Eacham mentioned the mattnr of travelling exhib:ts. and :he hon. member for Charters Towers and thc> hon. mombec for Queenton har! also broughe the matter up. It '' ould bu rac!L : expensiYe to send traYelling e•[­hibit to Char'. rs ToweL' for one show only. If Ch~r'ero Tc wors and Townsvill'O would join to 6 0tHor, they might thon send the tr :.volli ,g exhiht to serve both phces. If that. ' as arranged, he "auld oertdinly en­deavo·.H· to sr nd tho exhibit, but an earlv applica'ion would be nec~ssary, be, au'·' he had j •st put 1n adn;rtisement in the papers foJ' :Jl ap;>lic2tions i J be sent in without delay, '"' that they could arrang2 for the t,-a·~,,l!ing exhibit to visit its many shows as po,.ihlr The hon. member for Burnett mentioned the wild anim:tls, and also \Yost­brook, which ,,;a;; not now under the Agri­cultural Department. He could assure the hon. meml1er that the vines and plants were being taken better care of under the man­ager thev had in the Agricultural Depart· ment than they were before.

Mr. BoWMAN and Mr. B. H. CORSER: It is the same man who is there now.

rnon. J. White.

The SECRETAHY FOR A~RICULTURE: Mr. Rainford did the whole of that work. He was still in the department and was up in .Bowen district, from which aLout 4,000 c:tsP'l of fruit and vegetables were Leing sent away every week. He attributed a, great deal o£ th<e success in that district to the effort' of Mr. Rainford, who was a good man, and who was doing very good work in that district.

Mr. E. B. C. CoRSER: That is why they miss him down her<>

The SECRETARY FOR AGRic'ULTURE: Yes. As far as the vines at Enoggera, were concerned, if the hon. member for Burnett hac! been pree,"nt when he was replying to other hon. member~ the other night--

Mr. B. H. CORSER : I was here.

The SECHET)~.RY FOR AGRICULTUHE: He would have known that he had taken the phylloxera at Enoggera in hand. He had sent up the Entomologist to examine the roots of the vines in the whole of the dis­trict, and he had issued notic0 s that the vines must be taken out before the 1st March.

Mr. B. H. CoRSER: That should have been done years ago.

The SECRETARY FOR AGHIC'CLTUHE: Possibly; but he was not in office then. The Minieter who preceded him got a first­class man up from Victoria to examine the vines and report on tl,.e matter. As it "as a dangerous disc,tse. and no one would like to sec it sp!-:ading in Qn,,ensland, it was thought the time had come to take btrong measures to have it rooted out. The hon. member for Keppel also mentioned the ques· tion of reserves in his district. He thought that rccc rves should be provided in every dis­trict more especially in a big district like tho 'Rockhampton dic.trict, but the peopl& tlwm,eln, should make so'ne effort in that direction. and then approach the Govern­ment. The hon. momLer for Flinders also rei•~'rrecl to the caves in his di ,trict. That \LIS a matt·.~J' on whi0h he would have to confer with th~ :Minister for Lands-to see wh ,ther anything could be clone in the direc­tion indi ;.,ted by the hon. member. The hon. member for Kenneclv me;otio:1e.i the matter of a State farm. He did not know >Yhct.her a State farrr. could be <oshblishcd in that cl ctorate, as it was hardly an a'j'ri­culkro I eli ·•trict.

lllr. O'Sc:LLIVAN: There are some good pieces of lar,J in it.

The SECRETARY FOH AGRICULTURE: ':rhcre mi-:;ht be ::on1o jur:tification for ex­P"rim,ont t1 plots whirh \VO'cld be cheaper than Stat" farms: and. perhap ,, just ac satis­factory. He found that in Lany cases the peop''' would not go to see State fanns to find out whet \,a" being- done. If th,,re was any justiitr"tion for it 'h: 'Yas quite willing to see that some ex..,onmcntal plots were establisheJ in the hon. mem1'0r's elcdorate. He thought he had now answered satisfac­torily most of the queries put to him by hon. mrmb0n, a'1d he trusted the vote would now he pa' ~ieJ.

Mr. GRj.YSON (Cnnningrqm) was f!ntiroly in favour of the systAm of travelling ex­hibits. He thought that the .exhibits from tho State farms and from Gatton Collego "ere creditable to the officers concerned. The, were highlv educational to visitors at the 'shows where' they were exhibited, both in regard to the quantity and quality of the exhibits, and he was V"ry pleased that the

Supply, [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2525

Minister intended sending these exhibits to the different shows held in the agricultural districts. The societies were all anxious to get the exhibit at their annual sho\vs. He noticed tho sum of £1,000 put down for tho Mount Coot-tha Reserv8. Unfortunately, most of these rpserves were in the vicinity of the large towns. Il<' had a communica· tion some time ago from the trustees of a reE:erve, \vhich con1prised Bro\vn's Falls, in the Killarney district, asking for a subsidy towards beautifying the reserve. They in­tended approaching the department, and he trusted that the Minister would be able to grant the amount required for this pur­pose. The local authority and the shire council had decided to subsidi,e any amount which was granted £1 for £1. He thought that if local residents were willing to put their hands in their pockets in this way, it should be the duty of the Government to assist them in clearing reserves and beautify­ing them. Unfortunately, there was no Crown lands in the Killarney township. The township \vas carved out of a repur­chased estate, with tho result that the resi­dents there had to pay £37 per acre for 20 acres of land for show purposes. They did not receive one penny from the Government to assist th<:>m in the purchase. Then thev had to purchase anoth.-r piece of land for a criQket ground at £30 an acre. They were compelled to purchase the whole land for recreation purposes. At Yangan they had to purchase fr<:>ehold land for the same pur­pose, and were oxactly in the same position. It "eem0d to him th",t the Government should do somtthing for the towns where there wor,e no Crown lands available for these purposes.

Mr. LARCO:MBE : He wished to f'ay some­thing on that vote with regard to a request made to the :Minister bv the residents of Yeppoon and Emu Park {or assishncc to get recreation resencs. He "ou1d like to point out that the residents had offered to provide a fair proportion of the cost, but. not". ith­standing that, the Goverru10nt ,till penisted

in refusing to rPndcr an~· assist­[4.30 p.m.] ance, saving that thoro \vas no

fund' availnble, or no fund fro n which monov could bo obtained. That was onlv a subterfuge and a quibble, and the money should be provided to find recr<ation reserves at both plac0s. Other pluc0s had previously obtained reserves, and he failed to see -· hy there should be any diffiercntia­tion in the different parts of l)ueensland. IIe trusted that before they were again discussin c\"

that vote twelve months hence something would have been done. Both places were prominent seaside rf''orts, and Yeppoon had in the back country large 'ugar-growing areas. and the size and importance of those tm• !'ships warranted tho provision of ros0rves.

Question put and passed.

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

CHIEF OFFICE.

Tire SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STR':TCTION moved that £18,610 be granted for "Department of Public Instruction­Chief Office" He thought it would faciE­tau business and enable them to save time to dea 1 with what had been done bv the denart­med during the year, on th;, first vote. Thc!D 'vere SIJccia.I rPasons hich oneratf~d in his mind +awards that conclusion, but the chief was that during the d<:>bates on the Address in Reply and the Financial State­ment a great many queries were put to

the department through the columns of -• HansarC:." He did not avail himself of the opportunities to speak on those occasions, but he had the criticisms of hon. member& taken out and considered bY the department, and h•-- had answers to the"m, which he pro­posed to give. He hoped that hon. members would follow the answers careful!,·, because it ought ce>rtainly to avoid tedious r<:>peti­tion of question and answer. Han. member& would notice that there was an increase for the whole of the department of £30,190. He could giVe the detailed parti~ular? of tJ:at \ncrea se if necessary, but he mrght JUst pomt out that it was merely the result of grade promotions, grade increases, and -c<:>r~in increases to officers, and ordinary promotiOns 0f teachers. He was very glad indeed that an increase had be<:>n made in the salary of the Under Secretary. (Hear, hear!) Mr. Stor.J had acted in that position for many years. He was ABting Under Secretary for ·two years from 1st July, 1904, before he received the f'lll anpointment, and he wa,s perfectly certain that every member of the Committf'e would agree with him that the advance was onlv the re\\ ard of meritorious, efficiont, and loyal service.

HoNOURABLE MEJ\IBERS: Hear, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLTU IN­STRUCTIO-"f: There had been increMes ranging from £20 to £10 to nearly every individual in the office. The salaries of the inspectors had been increased by £20 each, with the exception of the Senior In .pector, ;,vho receives £30, and general increases had been giYen from Hw highe,t to the lowest in the department. (Hear, hear!) Hfl would now answer the qu<:>stion that ha,:J been put to him if it o·-Id suit the con­veni<:>nce of the Committee. (Hcu. hear :; First of all, certain qucotions · wer-~ raisec bv the hon. n-enber for Port Curtio \\;ith reQ;ard to tho school nt (', lliopc•, and \Vith a Yiov, to gPtting g_L'cah~~~ faciliti<:>s for children atte1.diLJ ·drools in countrv districts. .-:-\ __ :, a ILattcr of fact, the question of improving the schc<Jl at Callior,e had been under serious con­sideration, and they }wped to be in a position so as to alter it as to bring it into conclitinu to meet the require•nents of the district. With rega1'd to country children and their requirements, which had been 't0uchod upon by various other members, the) were doing as much o.s th<:>v could to meet their wants by means of travelling teachers-the,- had seventeen itinerant teachers at pr sent. and they hoped to increase the numbor-(h<:>ar, hear !)-by tho <:>stacJ!ishment of Saturday schools. house-to-house .ochools, and ordi­nary full-time schools; and th: y had recently been able-through opemng the ,' oeondarv ,schools to- countrv children. by mf'ans of scholarships-to cater further for their wants. The hon. members for Drity­ton and Bo,,-en reised the quo,tion of higher qualified teachers in country schools. That was a matter that -;,as giving the department considerable con•:ern. The salary that thev were paying did not appear to be sufficiently 'high to attrac' hignly classified teachers, and, on the, other hand, they Wf're met with the difficulty of not being able to pay £120 to £150 merely to teach a small number of children, a number of small children-that was. children small in the sense of not bemg high up in educa· tiona! knowledge. it might be possible tn

Han. J. W. Blair.]

2526 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

~e.ise> the standard at the entrance examina­tion, and to insist on a longer probation, but they had in the meantime initiated a scheme of schools of instruction for un­trained teachers, .and he was glad to say that they sec med to be getting on well, and tlut the result would be beneficial to Queensland as a whole. (Hear, hoar!) They wore conducted in each in 'pcctorial district by the inspector for the district, and the scheme scem<ed likely to turn out to be a good one. The last _eries '"as distinct!:;, suoco~ . .,iul, and they apprehended that the difficulties he had mentioned \vould be obvrated, and t·hat they would get qualified tPachers thoroughly traineJ for imparting education to the chil­dren, no matter what part of Queensland they lived in. (Hear, hoar!) The hon. mem­ber for Bowen also mentioned the question of a, training college for teachers. He intended to dr:ll with it later on, but hon. members would sec from tho report that a very important departure had been made that year, and thcv had practically established a training colfegr, for teachers, by establishing scholar­ship" for teachers, by taking advantage of section 26 ol the University Act. That sec­tion, introduced by the Hon. the Premier and the Hon. ::\llr. Barlow, was certainly a. wise move, an,d the scheme had the o\ hole· hearted approval of the Teachers' Union, and the approval of the University staff from the Chancellor down. (Hear, hear!) He hoped it would tend to instruct teachers in tho higher branches of education, and that tho:'e who were trained would afterwards be utilised in the primary and secondary schools and the level of higher education would go through the whole State of Queensland. ·what th,;:, re,,ult would be, they were not <tble to say, but they hoped it would be dis­tinctly for the public good. (Hear, hear!)_ The hon. !members for Burancla and Maree mtro­duccd the question of a high school for Bris­bane. He proposed to go into that matter a little more carefully in dealing with the scholar­ship svstem that had been introduced this year, but, h<> might say that he thought they had largely met the question by making scholarships available to every boy or girl who could get at least 50 per cent. That m< ant a throe years' course of secondary education a 11soluteh- free to even· bov and girl who could reach that standa;·d n,; matter if their parents were from the poorest clan imagin­able. (Hear, hoar !) In that wav it would be possible to bring those boys and ~irls to the grammar school and tl1e high schools and anv ap1Jrovecl schools-that was, schools approved by the Governor in Council as hav­ing a sufficiently hi;-;h professional status to impart secondary education. The hen. mem· bers for Buranda and Balonne raised the question of additional itinerant teachers. He thought hon. members knew that the Cabinet of which he was a member vas thoroughly desirous of seeing all children, no matter in what remote parts of the State they lived, in poe session of the highest sources of knowledge, and it was the desire of tho department, as funds beea,me more available, to incre:1se the number of itinerant teachers and place them in all the districts possible. (Hear, hear!) He thought they had done remarkably well up to elate. The hon. member for Fitzroy, his predecessor, and the hon. member for East 1'oowoomba raised the question of taking over the grammar schools. His predeceRsor, he thought, on last year's Financial Statement, and on this year's Address in Reply and the Financial

[Hon. J. W. Blair.

Statement, exp;·essed regret that they had not tak<'n over the grammar schoc:>ls. He might state at once that he was against tak­ing them over. Ho~OURABLE MEMBERS: HeaJ:, he J.r t The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC fN­

STRUCTIOX: ~'l.nd he thought that the schcnw he had evolved, with the assistar:ce of the offici.ds in the department, and of h1s col­leaguc·:':.-from vvhon1 he wa.~ recervrng very sympathetic treatnwnt-(hcnr, l1<-~r !)--;-was an honest attempt to solve the dJf!iculties, a.nd open the door of educ 1hon freely to every m­dividual child in the State. He had c;;om.:; to the conclusion on the facts placucl before him, that it would 'be unwise to endeavour to take over. the O'rammar schools at the present time. He reserbved the right to speak later on the quGstions of tr!'ini~g schools, scho_lar­shipll, and the Umvcrs1ty, but he mi~ht preface his remarks at this stage by saymg that it would involve at least £30,000 a year to take over the grammar schools.

:Mr. HuNTER: That is to run them as they .are?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUUTI0:'\1: That sum would be exclusive of their indebtedness to the Crown. It would also be exclusive of tho loss that would accrue by tho loss of fees, because if they took .them m·er they would have to make them practrcally hiO'h schools which would be free to all. They w,;'uld have' to appoint additional staffs, the schools would have to be repaired, and they would also ha v~ to pay for the general upkeep and their enlarO'cmont, so that the amount of £30,000 a yea~· might be largely increased.

Mr. BERTRAM: Shelving responsibility, that is all.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: That was the class .of re­mark which however honest a man mrght be in making it, oome from an absolute, want of .stud\ of what was the real posll!on. (Hear, hear!) ·Tho remark he made just now was made in all kindness and sincerity, and he was perfectly certain that when the hon. mem­ber for :;I!Iaree went into the question and read the report, he would see that, so f a:r from shelving the question, they were doing the vcrv best thab could be done for Queensland at the present time. He asked hon. mem­bers to follow the figures which he was giv­ing. There was a genf!ral indebtedneba of £20,000 by the grammar schools to the Go­vernment. Tho hope of the Govemment was -and he thought that han. members, no matter what they might think of the scheme, would join in expressing their horY:l that their expectations wo~ld. be realis:~-t!'-at the adoption of a quahfymg exammatwn by which every boy or girl who obtamed 50 per cent. in an examination would get "' scholar­ship would practically obtain the same result as would be .achieved by taking over the grammar schools so far as the eclu~ation of the children was concerned, and 1t would not involve the withdrawal of scholarships to other secondary schools, or the with­drawal of the monetary allowance to the children of poor parents. It was proposed at present to allow £10 lOs. for a scholar­ship, but, as the report showed, the scheme was only tentative, and would be open to revision as exnerience suggested. If gram­mar schools c~uld not take the pupils, the scheme was subject to revision.

Mr. HUXHAM: Are the grammar schools satisfied to take the £10 lOs.?

Supply. ( 6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 2527

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Some of them were natural!; asking for an increase of the fees already. ::'llcmbers would be surprised if they did not ask for an inr·roase in the fees, but the department oaid to thc'•l, in "thB ,pirit of sweet reasonableness," "Give the sy:::tcm a trial and see how it works out; if we find from actual experiencB and c e,lculations that we cannot work the matter on thn.t system, we shall endeavour to meet y,ou."

Mr. HuxHAM: Has any grammar school rBfused to accept the £10 lOs.?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Not that he knew; he did not think that any would refuse to accept money, though they might quarrel about the amount. The hon. member for Charters Towc·rs, Mr. Williams, and the hon. mBmber for Roekhampton, Mr. Adamson, raised the question of increases in the salaries of teachers. As han. members knew, Parliament provided the necessary funds, and Parlia­ment having provided the funds, the classi­fication salaries of teachers and tho salaries of pupil-teachers were increased as from the 1st July, 1912. The increases ranged from £8 to £24 per annum for females, and hom £8 to £15 ner annum for males. That was initiated by his predecessor, the hon. member for Fitzroy. Through some inadvertence the teachers did not get that at once, but when he came into office a deputation from tho 'I'eachers' Conference waited upon him, and they were able to adjust the matter so that they got the full amount of £23,000 which was promised. He had had the honour and privilege of recommending certain things to the C;tbineb, and he was glad to say that his recommendations were approved. (Hear, hear!) Among those recommendations was the granting of a rent allowance of £26 per annum to married teachers in charge Df Class 10 schools, and an allowance of £10 per annum to the teacher's wife who was occuDied in teaching sewing to the pupils attending her husband's school. The rent allowance w·ould amount to £1,000 per annum, and the allowance for teaching sewing to £2.500 per annum, and those allowances would be paid as from the 1st July, 1913. It might be interesting here to mention tl10 increases in omolu1nents during the last few years. 1J nder the old system of remunerating teachers, when a teach'cr entered the department his salary was based -E:ntirely upon the attendance at the school, and he got no financial benefit at all from passing a higher examination. If he secured priority of appointment and got a large school, well and good, but if he came later and got a school with a less attendance, then his salary was based on the attendanc,,, even if he possessed higher qualifications than tho man in charge of the larger school. That was found to be unfair, and it was altered in 1909, when it was determined that two e la­ments should be considered in deciding what a teache~'s salary should be. The first was the attendance at the school, and the second the qualifications of the teacher. For in­stance, under the old S.) stem a teacher of Class II., Division 1, in a school of Cla"s 9 received a salary of £200 per annum. That was the ordinary salary he g-ot, no matter how he advanced in status. Under the new system, where both attendance and classific"­tion were <'onsidered, he would be paid £210 <llassification sa.lary-an increase of £10-and £30 for the class o£ school. When he was

alluding to the new system of determining the emoluments of head teachers, members \HlUld understand that he was allud1ng to ..moluments based on (1) claSoification and (2) attendance at the school. In 1910 a re­duction was made in the time between. gr=:de promotions in Class III. Class III., Drv1s10n 3, was the cla,; to which_ a teadLr suc<cecded after passing through hts puprl-tc"chershtp, and when he reached that class he seeure:l tho privilege of being d<:signated as. !" classified teacher with the nghts and pnn­kgc,, accruing to public servants under thn Public Servic·J Act. Under the old rule the time in. which a teanher could ;;o _ ~r?m Class III., Division 3, to Class III., Dtvrswn 2 was two and a-half vears, and he had t; y, ait that time even if he pa"ed an ex-· amination for a higher grade-:-say, Class II. Now he had only to wmt one ~nd a-half yea!'. Under tho old gra_d~t;on sYstem a man in Class III., Drv1s;on 2' had to wait two years for promotiOn t:C, another division. Under the new S"' stem the time would be one year, so that there was a reduction of two and_ a-half vears in the time which must elapse m pass­ing from grade to grade. In vic'': of those facts, he thought it must be adm1tted that those in charge of tho departJ?ent were taking a very acute and keen mterest m making tho lot of the teacher better. (Hear, hear !) In 1911 the minimum salary for a male adult tJacher in charge of a small school was £110 per annum, and that of a femal~ teacher £90 per annum. ~n 19~2 there ;verc mcreas~s made in the class1ficatwn sal!"nes of teachm s and in the salaries of pup1l-teachers total­ling £23,000. In 1913 there w:.t~ an exten­sion of the rent allowance to marned te.achers in charge of Cla'·s 10 schools amounting to £1 000 and there were sewing allowances to te;che~·s' wives totalling £2,5CJ. The new system of determining the emolml!ents of head teachers, as introduced in 1909, mvolved an expenditure of £4,000 per annum ; . the reduction of time between grade promobons in Class III., an expenditure of £3.909 per annum· and the raising of the mmrmum salary 'of male adults in charg<' of small schools to £110 per annum and that of females to £90 per annum involved a~ expen­diture of £10,000. The total annual mcr"'.ase in respect of all these ~at~ers was £43,c00. Those were the automabc mcreasos and the incrPases granted by his preder8s'ryrs .:1nd himself. In addition there were the auto­matic increases of £4,550 last y~ar, and £7,000 this, totalling £55,050. Those mcrc"ses showed that the wants of the teachers were not beinll' altogether neglected. . (Hear, hoar !) ·The hon. member for ::vl:unlla, Mr. Morgan, the hon. mcmrc,r for Burnett, Mr. Corser, and the hon. member for Balon':e, Mr. Land, mentioned tho . matte~ of m­crcased me<iioal and dental mspec!lon, and tho hon m<:>mber for Puddington OJmpared the Xe~v Zealand system with t~at in force in Queensland. He (Mr. Blatr) had taken the trouble to get the Um!er Sec­retary to cable to New Zealand for n:forn:a­tion respecting their system of medwal m­spAction. He had the papers there. and, at a later stage would give the CommttteB the benefit of th~m. At present he would merely say that our own s:;'stem was superior to that in force in New Zealand. (Hear, hear!) In fact he made bold to say that the present education system of Queensland w_ould chal­lenge comparison with any educatiOn system in the world.

Hon. J. W. Blair.]

2528 lASSEMBLY.] Supply.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­

STRUCTION: Tho Lord Chancellor of Great Britain had said that the British ideal of an educational system was that it should be ·one. which il"avc equality of opportunity to all, nrespect1ve of rank, fortune, or social status. He (Mr. Blair) ventured to say, as he had said elsewhere, that that was no longer an ideal in Queensland-it was a realisation. He knew of no more liberal or more generous system of education than the one at pre3cnt in vogue in Queensland. We had absolutely free primary education, and free secondarv education for thoss who ob­tained 50 per' cent. of marks in an examina-

. tion.. Th· 'e :·-cholarships combined with ex­tenswn scholarships brought a pupil right up to tlw University, and he might get onP of the University scholarships granted by the Government. Not only were they providing for the education, but they were giving the teachers a syst'm of training. . Teachers could go right into the Univer•ity and take

their classes as full-time students, rs p.m.] and afterwards they could get

nractinal instruction under Dr. Shirley (an 'excellent appointment) who had been appointed training master. ' The de­partment hnd also nrovidcd £300 for a lecturer in Education at the L.:nivcrsity. Inck•·d, he knew of no education system \VhiCh gave more g-enerous assistance to both pupils and teachers than was given under th~ Queensland system. It was a system of which menbrrs on both •-ides of the House ought to he exceedingly proud. (Hear, hear !)

Mr. ADursox: Do vou think the allow­ances are high enough~?

The SFCRETJ .. RY FOR ·puBLIC IN­STRUC 110~: The allowances were as higl1 a~ a grnrrvis u_,,_, ( f th Eloney at their d"'-pcca] ' ould alloY'. ThPre was no man '"ho v>~ould ~lc:1cl inane: more 1villingly on education than he, but there 1\<1-cl a limit to onc'c de· ire· and the limit was that thev had not the minted coin. They u·ed a's mw;:h of it as they co-~ld get, end he must say chat the pnple of Queensla·1d were ex­cr·,,dingly ge;,erous to their <'ducational in­stitutions. II-Iear, hear!) \Yith regard to tho medi_< .J and dental inspection, at the pr<'>. nt tm;o thev had three dentists-one in the South, 01 n 'in the Centre, and one in tho North. and an additional full-time d_octor and nurse had been appointed. Prac­tically they now h~d two full-time medical inspectors, and tv o full-time nurses, and tho:· also had four half-time inPpectors in addition to the hospital doctors in the West an? North who are treating the eyes of the children. The,- had also a full·time eye doctor. The method i.n vogue in the depart· ment was thiF: The dentists travelled round and made an inspAction of the teeth of the children. Each child was supplied with a card, and the remarks of the ins;)ector were made on that card. The cards were then taken to the parents, and they, therefore, h·td expert advice as to \\hat, if anvthing, was wrong .with their children, and what should be doi1e to remedv the defect. \Vith regard to the inopection of the eyes, the same sy,:,tem was in vogue. There were other doctors ''• ho inspected tho ears, no"e, and general fr,cmes of the children, in order to ""o. whether there "as anything which re­qtdred attentiOn. If s0, the attention of the h.- ad teacher and of the parents wa' called

[Hon. J. P ..Jl.:<•ir.

to it, so that under the present system _it w-:s pqssible to have defects remedied wh10h,. 1£ left unremedied, might render. the ch~ld physically unfit, and would certaml_y depr1ve. him of the full advantage of his mental qualities. It was gratifying to know that this kind of work was gomg on, and what. struck him as peculiar was this: the a b. so­lute ignorance outside of what was bemg done on those lines.

Mr. ADAMSON:' What about mental de­ficiency!

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Of course there might be some who were mentallv deficient through congenital causes, through hereditary causes, or throuo-h accident but whatever the defect was, if it was notic~able on inspecti<:n, those most intimately concerned had the1r atten­tion called to it and he "a.s perfectly cer­tain that if their conJition was that of poverty, if they approachfld the hospital, t-hey would be taken in and treated. (Hear, J,e:lr !) The han. member for Murilla made a suggestion to the effect that the eye doct~r· should send out notice of the dates of h1s visits, so that the parents of children at_t~nd­ing small schools which could not be v!Slted by the doctor could send their children to ar. a.pproved centre for exnwination by him. The. department had taken steps m the matter and already had it in vogue, It was a proper thing to do, as it would give the p••<,f.h• in the:, small country places an oppor­tunity of getting the advantage of expert advice. (Hear, hear!) The han. member for Cooroora referred to the questwn of t~e Gym­pie train servic., for children attendmg the Gympie Hig·h School. The department had written to the Railway Derartmc· t . on th • matter, and he waq perfectly r .. :rtaln the}· would be able to do all that was neces· ary by the two departments working in co-opPration. '.rhe han. member for Rockhampton, the hen. member for Charters Towers, and some other,; had referred to the quections of better pay, tho training of . teachers, and closer connection between pnmary, second­ary, and L.:niversity education. With ~egard tv clo cr connection betwBen primary, ,, condary, and University education, he might say at once tha~ h_e was m favo~r of it. (Hear, hctr !) Ihs Idea would be_, 1f po~sible, to lessen the number of Bxamma· tions-to make it poFSible to have one quah· fication for the public service such .as the f'uoensland Junior, or to prevent and. cut down the examinations as far as possible. Instead of having boys and girls leavir:g school and studying afte-rwards. to ga1_n certific:ttes he would do awav w1th that tf pos··ible, so that they could go str~i(l"ht from school to emnloyrnent by obtammg leaving certificatE-s. -The -depart~ent hop_ed to establish a system of leavmg certifi­cates, and to give effect to it very shor~ly. Suppose a nerson had four years educatwn .at a secon-dary school, on leaving, his attainmBnts were calculated by the number of examinations he had passed during th-:t time and by his conduct generally; and 1f he passed that probationary period st:ccess· fulh-, he would get a lPwing_ cert:ficate which thev hoped would enable h1m, wtthout matriculation, to go straight to the Univer­sitv or enable him to go straight into em­plo;merit, and hold t~e leaving ce_rtifiQ~te as a certificate connotmg the quahficatwn he received at school. 'That was an excellent idea, and worth striving to see its successful

Supply. [6 NOVEMBER,] Supp~y. 2529

fulfilment. (Hear, hear !) The hon. mem­bers for ·windsor and Paddington referred to the qu ction of scholarships. lie had already referred to that matter, and when the proper vote came on he would give one or t1:o debtils in regard to it. The hon. member for T1Iundingburra referred to the question of further assistance to the Towns­ville Gramn ar School. That was a matter entirelJ for the Treasurer and the trustees of the Grammar school, but they were hopeful under tho nc11 scholarship system that the school would have an extra £500 per annum. He hoped the increased number of scholar­ships wou'd increase the fees and be suffiqient to put that school out of difficulty.

Mr. HcXHA~I: They will have to increase the staff.

The SEI'RETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: It would not necessarily follow that thB staff should bo increased. The school had to make provision for the

· ordinarv scholarship boys now, and all tho boys wonl d be practically on the same level, would be taught tho 'arne subjects, and would be prepared for the same Bxamination ; and what would it matter if a master had twenty pupils instead of fifteen? No one could be positive on those matters or dog­matic, but he was hoping that it would not require any great incrE'ase in the staff.

Mr. FoLEY: Are you looking for an extra number of scholars?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: He was hoping that the number would be quadrupled-the more the merrier. (H<0,1r, hear!) The hon. membBr for Balonne referred to the question of .a base hospital for children of poor parents who required trea.tment on account of sore eyes. It v. as understood that the Children's Hospital could not take those children, and the cost of a base hospital, as bon. members could quite understand, would be absolutely prohibitive at the present time. But they had an ophthalmic inspector, and he had gone through those districts and he spoke very encouragingly of the work being done by the hospita.ls in those centres, and all he (Mr. Blair) could promise the hon. member was that they would keep his suggestion in view if the day should come when they had sufficient funds to make it practicable, The hon. member for Buranda referred to the time between grade promotions, a.nd his statement was that the teachers had to wait on the average three years between grade promotion. That was incorrect. The regu­lation provided-

" 35. The conditions of promotion to a higher class or to a higher division of a class shall be-

(a) That Parliament has appropriated money for ,any consequent increase of salary;

(b) That the teacher has passed the examine1tion lor admission into the higher class ;

(c) That his work has been satis­factory;

(d) That he has shown skill in prac­tical school management sufficient to warrant his admission into the higher class;

(c) That his conduct has been sati$· factory; and

1913-7 Q

(f) That the following periods have elapsed between his promotion to a higher class or to a higher division of a cJ,ass, namely :-

Cla~'lific tion. Period.

F•om Class III .. Div"·,,ion 3, One year and a-L<llf to Class III., IJh 1sio11 3

Fr,~m Clas~ III., Division 2, One :rear to <Jl:~&~ II l.. D1vblr;n 1

Frolll Cia:-~ III., lHvi~,ion I, Two years to Cia:;:" II., Division 3

From ('la-.s II.. Division 3, Three years to ClMs II., DivLlon 2

From ClH.S~ II .. Division 2, to 11hren years Cl~.:::;s II, lJivhwll 1

From Cl"RS II., lliYision 1, to Three years Clasq I., Division 3

From Class I., Division 3, to Chfi:S I., Division ~·

From Cla,.;-s I., Division 2, to Four yea,rs Class I., Divisi0n l

Under that reduced time in the lower grade a male teacher of twenty-one years of age could earn a salary of £150 per annum -and u female teacher of £120 per annum. Con­sidering that Queensland was. little more than fifty years old, the system whwh enabled that to take place, at all events, deserved some eulogy. (Hear, hoar!) The hon. member a;lso roferred to the question of preference to un­ported teachers. There was no preference ?f any kind at all. There was no greater mrs­conception "it!, regard to anJ point in ~he Education Department than the allegatiOn that preference was given to imported teachers. Only twelve teachers were sought to be indented 'here, and only eleven men came, apd the;,- were pra,cti~ally_ un~er co!l­tracL He had made spemal mqmnes In regard to thc,m, and was told th<tt they w~re an exceptional class of men and were dorng splendid work. There were other teachers, not spe<>iall v brought out, but who came here having' certain qualifications, and they wore given a trial. Some of those were, perhaps, not quite so satisfacto~y, but ther:e was certainly no preference grven, a'!d If their probationary pBriod was not satrsfac­tory. they were either relegared to.~ class commensurate with their mental abrhty, or they wem dispensed with. ·

Mr. G. P. BARNES: What rs the term of probation?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: The term of probation was ordinarily six months, but no preference. was given to those people over t_he locally t~·amed teachers. Thev wore classrfied accordmg to their ago and experience and the examinations they passed. Ho would ask hon. members that if they found anv specific instance where they thought preference was given, to give th<?s" instances to him and he would have specral inquiries made ; ' but, after strict inquiry in the department, they had been unable to locate anv instance of. preference. (Hear, hear!) The hon. member f_or Flinders raised the que,tion of additional :t~nerant teache_rs, and the question of provrdmg them w1th motor-cars. The department had made experi­ments in regard to motor-cars in the South­west. They had not bee!" wh·oiiy successful so far but better results might follow where the cOL{ntrv was not s<r broken and not so sandy. The di'fficulty in that country-and he knew it from actual experience-was the difficulty cf

Han. J. W. Blair.]

1530 [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

encountering streams, not of water but of sand and it was exceedingly difficult indeed t~ pass along in any car no matter of what description. \Yith regard to the itinerant teachers, that was a very succeosful e cperi­ment and one which might be contmued. The han. member for \Vide Bay referred to the question of residence for country teachel"'. It seemed almost idle to say that the dep.nt. m~nt was thoroughly in accord with th-:tt idea, and although it was repeating what was almost a trite saying, they were endeavour­ing to see that it was carried out as far as possible. But no matter who was in the position of Secretary for Public Instruction, or who occupied the Treasury benches, they could only do a certain amount of work with a limited amount of money. They were striving to make the money go as far as they could, and to distribute it in as fair a way as they could. They would like to see that country teachers who were married were com­fortable and conveniently housed, but their de,ire was bounded by the funds available, and new schools and additions and repairs to schools, and other improvements had to take precedence. The reason that precedence was given was because the teacher could get some kind of sh<>lter, but the children had to got llclditions and repairs to the schools in order to .enable them to receive tuition and not reduce the system to a farce. (Hear, hear!) The hon. member for Paddington referred to the qu-es­tion of unexpended balane,es. They had to deal with a vote of well over £500,000. The un· e]\Cpended balances of the Estimates for 1912· 13 in the C)lief Office amounted to £410 16g. 7d.; inspection, £63 18s. 1d. ; medical in­>pection, £879 5s. 1d.; University, £203 13, 4d. ; s?hools of art, £1 .17s. 3d. ; secondary tlducatwn, £556 . 14s. 6d.; State schoo!H, £5,952 4s. 9d.; technical colleges, £3,073 13·'· 5d. ; total, £11,142 3s. It was not possibls to transfer amounts from different votes. There was an amount brought foni .arcl of £3,276 1s. 4d. Then the amount of the Supplementary Estimates that they had to ask for was £5,416 lOs. 1d., making a total pf £8,692 lls. 5d., so that in realitv all that the department was out in it:, estimate v1ras only £2,449 lls. 7d.-ancl that in connectiGn with an expenditure of well over £500,000. (Hear, hear!) Ho all the more willin;:;l:v made this quotation because he thought it wa, attri­!mtable to 1\lr. Story, Mr. Deane, <tncl the effi­cient officers he had in that department that they were able to come out so well. He was .obliged to the hon. member for Paddington for enarJing him to pay that eulogy tD the !fepartment. (Hear, hear!) In the debate on fhe Works Department's Estimates the hor1. memher for '\Vide Bay· and the han. member for Warwicl' rsised the question of tert schools. The depa~tment adopted that policy Reven years ago. In the departmental report for 1908, when the Hon. i\Ir. Bar­low was the JHinister, particulars were given showing that it was partly true at that time. The hon. member for Wide Bay had spoken to him about the matter, since which he had obtained from the Chief Rail· way Engineer plans and particulars of their fjresent "camp buildings," with a view to seeing wheMwr any improvements could be effcctPc\ in the present "tent" SChool plan anc\ ~necifications, and at the present time th. ey )vere in treaty with that depadment to >;;ce if they could utilise thoir camp system. Th. ey had these tent schools established at cliffere.nt plarPs. In 1909 thev had establiohcd OQ_e nnother in 1910, five in 1911, three in 191.2;

tHan. f W. Blair.

and seven in 1913. The hon. members for Cunningham, Kennedy, Keppel, Carnarvon, and Flinders spoke on the question of play­sheds, and he thought other bon. rnemberd had mentioned them as well. It was very desirable to have them, particularly in places out \Vest. They were making arrangements to have them erected at the two places men­tioned by the hon. m~mbe~· for. W arrego. Evervone must s,-mpathise with children who had "to .attPnd "school in the intense heat, and the department would do its best to grant them shelter, no .;natter in what part of the State they were. Bnt there was the :"ame reply, which had become almos.t stereo­typed, that improvements and additiOns had all tD be considered, and that handiCapped them considerably in attempting what they would like to do. They were encouragmg the planting of good shade t];ees to ?eautify ~he playgrounds, and at the same time provide shade for the children. The hon. member for Kennedy, as well as the hon. members for Fitzroy and Mundingbu~ra, spoke of open- · air schools. He had asked his colleague to allow Mr. Brady to look into that question, and Mr. Brady had looked into the matter and was going to furnish them with a report. The Committee would be glad to hear th>~t Dr. Croll, who was a part-time medical in­spector in reporting on the new schools recently erected at J nnction P~rk, reporte :l that they were perfect rooms m regard to both light and ventilation. (Hear, hea: !) Han. members who had been round wrth him in opening new schools would agree with him that the system adopted was very satisfactory with r8ga>d to giving pro_Per lighting, suitable sitting .accommodatwn, and thorough ventilation. It was a pleasure to go ·into some of thJ3 rooms, and the highest tribute they could pay would not be undeoerved by the people who had designed them and those in the department who had made such schools pos­oible. (Hear, hear!) There was a great contr:ast between the present buildings and those in vogue in his own day-the difference was as marked as night was from day-and it would be well for hon. members to take the trouble to go and look at some of the new schools to see what was being done. They were so arranged that the light would not be ob­structed by the use of the hand, and the angle of the light would not interfere with thP vision. The children would be protecte:l ophthalmicall1, and the acoustic properties were very good. The black~oards fitted into the wall were of the latest design. There were swinging windows which could be . opened in summer, and a free current of an could go all round, excluding any chance of coL:!s, and sweetening the whole atmosphere, leav· ing ,·ery little else to be desired. If therR was time one could enthuse to some purp0'e on what was being clone by the department in regard to these things. (HE;.tr, hear !) The improvements at \Vindorah and Ada­vale whi,h the hon. member for '\Van·ego had' spoken of, had been placed in the ha.ncls of the vVorks Department for atten­tion. The han. member for Gregory had spoken about wider ver11.ndas for small schools. They were discussing this mattet. with the office-rs of the Public W arks Depart· ment and seeing what conld be clone. Tho hon. member for Burrum referred to the question of a separate building for a high school at Childers. This would involve a separate staff, the expense of which was not warranted, but they had provided a com-

Supply. (6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 2531

•fortable room for pupils who were doing secondary work. The hon. member for Charters Towers had pressed on the question of a Universit.J< site. The matter was now being considered by the University Senate and the Government was awaiting their re: ,presentations.

Mr. RYA;N: W>II they act upon their representatwns?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRCCTION: He took it that if .a good

·case was made out action would be taken (Opposition laughter.) The bon. member did not expect him to saY more than that. He was sure he would not expect him to say ''Yes" in the dark. He would like to point out w~at _was _being done with regard to -educatwn m Bnsbane. He had had occasion to go down to cee the !buildings being erected where the present University was and to seP thP University as well. It ·occurred to him that it would not be unwise to inquire what amount of money was being expended there, 1and' to let the Committee and through the Commi~tee !.he country, lmow what _amou':lt was bemg expendBd education­-ally m Bnsbane. The following statement sho·,, ed the expenditure :-

ExPENDITURr~ ON 1'HE FOLLOWING BuiLDINGs, 1ST JuLY, 1911, TO 30TH JcNE, 1913, AND CmnnnrENTS TO 3RD N oVEli!BER, 1913.

Quer:l81and University. .£ s. d. .£ B. d.

Expenditure on Build-ings, 1911-12 ...

ExpenditurB on Build­ings, 1912-13

3,528 18' 7

1,493 15 0 ---&1

· 5,022 13 3,948 10

2 6 Equipment, 1911-12

Equipment, 1912-13 18,405 17 3 ----22,354 7

Brisbane New Central Technical College.

Expenditure on Build-ings, 1911-12 .. . 9,289 19 9

Expenditnm on Build-ings, 1912-13 ... 25,851 7 11

7

9

----- 35,141 7 8 Equipment, 1911-12 17 9 6 Equipment, 1912-13 299 19 3

Total Expe-nditure

317 8 9

£62,835 17 9

U ni'versity_:_ Commitments.

Equipment .. . 8,175 3 9 ''I'echnical College-

Buildings ... 63,019 0 5 Equipment 494 10 1

Total Commitments

Gross total (including Expenditure andi

71,688 14 3

Commitment) £134,524 12 0

He thought those figures showed what was being done in the metropolis for education, and that the facts and figures he had given spoke eloquently of what was being done by t~e Gov<ernment in the cause of education.

B:oNOVRABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. ADAMSON (Rockharnptorr) wished to say a word or two before the vote weat through, and he intended to respond to the invitation of the Minister and make his remarks as brief as possible. He had in­tended to speak a good deal longer than he

was going to do, but as the Minister had thought fit to meet the Committee, and had le~ken the trouble to go through the speeches of those members who had spoken on the

~\ddress in Reply in 1:elation to [5.30 p.m.] these matters, and to reply to · the requec.ts made, he would try

to help him to get the vote through as quickly as possible. He congratulated the l1Iini>cter for his very excellent report, and expre~sed the wish that all the new ven­tures indicated in the report might be carried out successfully. There " as another thing he would like to do'; that was, to congratu­late the Under Secretary for Education on his well-earned increase in salary.

HoNOcRABLE ME)IBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. ADAMSON: He appreciated his courtesy in connection with everything with which he had had to do. He also wished to express his appreciation of all the members of the staff of the department with whom he had come into contact. He had had to go there on a good many occasions, and every time he had been met in the most courteous way and all the information possible had been given to him. He would just like to deal with some complaints which he thought should be brought before the Committee. The Minister had spoken in relation to some rr,atters, but there was one particular case which had been brought before his notice concerning the new arrivals in the country who were in the ranks of the teachers of the department. He was told that the new arrival was receiving £205 a year-a great deal more than men of as high qualification, and men who were doing as · good work according to the opinions of men who ought to know what they were talking about. Those other men had been prepared for their work by the Queensland Education Department, and, whilst he thought that the men imported should receive fair play in every way, he thought that they should not receive salaries bigger than those paid to men equal tD them who had been educated in Queensland. Another matter about which complaint had to be made was that married assistant teachers who were not ln charge of separ11te schools, and who h"d not gone out into the country, but were assisting at schools in Brisbane and other large centres, did not receive the allowance for rent that v:as paid to those teachers who had gone out into the country and were provided with houses or received house rent.

Mr. MORGAN : A lot of them will not go out into the country.

Mr. ADAMSO~: This was a question that should be viewed apart from any question o£ countrv or town. It 1'1 as perfectly right, in his opinion, that if an assistant teacher of a certain qualification and of a certain length of service was engaged in the city, and was married, he should have the allow-. ance for rent as well as anybody elst.

Mr. MoRGAN : Then vou will not be able to get any of them to -go into the country. They refuse to go now.

Mr. ADAMSON: A lot of them went into the country and. others wBre willing to go. He thought that if arrangements were made that they should only remain a certain time in the countn- the needs of the country schools would 'be met, so far as classified teachers were concerned.

Mr. MoRGAN : Some· of them spend all their time in the cities.

Mr. .Adamson.]

2532 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. ADAMSON : If some of their teachers had to go outside, he thought it was not fair that others should be able to stay in the city all the time. But, all the bilrne, they had to remember that in the cities sometimes a great deal higher qualification was needed than in many plac,; in the country, so far as teaching was concerned. Another matter he >vould like to mention was what he looked upon a·• the utter foolishness and gross un­fairnc•.s of failing examinees in all subjects of their examinations, wh0n they had really only failed in •.orne of them, and in many cases only failed in one subject. Pupil-teachers and others >d1o were going up for the higher classification found that if they failed in one subject they ,;·ere counted ae. having failed in all subjects. There was one subject that a good man:, of them failed in-namely, music, and some of them thought that it was kept on the curriculum with the idea of failing them. He did not think that -,,as true. But he thoug-ht the teachers should receive credit for havmg passed in the subjects in which they had succeeded, and only be required to pass in any of the subjects in which they had failed. He would also like to refer to the time at which examinations were held. At the prcs~nt time, a large number of young people were sitting for tho University examinations, and he thought it would be a good thing for the health of those who had to go through all the hard work, sit­ting six hoars a day, if it could be done in the cooler weather. Then he wanted to emphasise what he had said before in rela­tion to the salaries of third-class teachers. They constituted the greatest number of teach<>rs in the State, and they were doing all the work necessary to fit boys and girls for the scholarship examinations, and they were paid at a rate which, in his opinion, was not sufficient to kcPp them respectably. He thought th<'y should have at least £175 a year with a house; he thought they should have more. The Minister had said that he was limited so far as money was concerned, and he supposed that if the rises went on as they had been proceeding of late, there was a chance of tho.,,e teachers getting some­thing like a fair living wage~something commenourate with the work they were doing in the near future. He had thought on looking at the work that the men who were doing the literary work, the most important work in connection with the making of citi­zens, were being paid the least. Of course. he knew that thPre were advantages so far as· the tenure of the work and other things were concerned, but he felt that men who were doing that particular kind of work were not being paid as they should be paid. So far as tho schools in Rockhampton were con­cerned, the North Rookhampton School wanted attending to very badly. He had been to the department a few times, but the matter of money had always been the excuse_ The school was in a bad state of repair and the grounds needed draining. Then ~ new­school wa~ required in the Fitzroy Ward. He had seen the Under Secretary in con­nection with the matter and it might be perfectly true that it w~o not as necessar:;r as schools in other places, but, nevertheless. there were other places where schools were not needed so much as in this plaCf•. Those were the complaints he had to make. He could go on speaking about the leakage in the department so far as teachers were con­cerned, awl the reasons for it, but he would :oot ~o so: He thought, however, it should be mqmred mto. He could also speak in relati01~ to other matters, sucli as the amount thali

[Mr. Adamson.

was expended per head on education iw Queensland and the amount that was ex­pended in other States. He thought the new scheme was a good one, and he hoped that it would be carried out •mccessfully, but he was of opinion that the allowances were insufficient and if it was possible to. m11.ke them higher it would b,e .desiFable, s_o as to enable those who were gomg m for higher education to get enough to keep thernselv~s on if they were awav from home, and m other cases to enable 'the parents to have a. decent allowance for their children. Another matter to which he wish._d to refer occurred on page 18 of thA report. He would like .to know what was meant by "approved school." He was always g-oing to stand fat· their public school system being retained as­intact as possible, and he would always re­sist anv inroads of any other people. There had been a few things done in the depart­mont of late years which should not J::ave been clone and which had been in the dneo• tion of e;,_couraging competition, so far as other schools were concerned; and, whether anvbodv liked it or not, he was going to speak against that sort of thing. He was going to ask "'hether the term me~nt "de­nominational schooh," and whether It meant " private schools" as well, becaus€'1 person­ally at any rate, in harmony with the plat­form of the party to which he belonged, he was going to stand for State education,. free, secular, and compulsory, from the pnmary sdwol to the University. And whatever people might say or ?o, so far as voting for. him at the next electwn was concerned-and there was a lot of talk in rPgard to that at election times-he had had to face it in the· past, and he was prepared to face it again. If people were not prepared to accept the conditions that the State laid down, let them. find the money for their own schools, and keep their scholars in an honest way. .If he­wanted his child educated in a particular wa,y, he was prepared to pay for it. He held that our school svstem bhould be demo­cratic, and anything. that tended to. sec­tarianise and seotionalise should be bamshed altogether. He thought that the time­allowed for preparation for the juniors and beniors in the future proposed new sc!wrne was too short, unless some arrangement was made regar,.ding the curriculum. So far as the training of teachers was con­cerned, he thought the scheme was a good one, but he thought those who were pre­paring themselves to be fitted to. educate ~he future citizens of Queensland should receive­a decent allowance. Then, there was the matter of religious instruction. He always opposed the Religious Instruction Act, an<f he opposed it again. It was not being carried out as it should be carried out. Whilst it might be doing a certain amount of good, he wanted members to notice that of the gross enrolment in their State schools, 25· per cent. were getting religious instruction, of the net enrolment about 33 per cent., and of the average daily attendance about 43· per cent. He would like to know what was the amount that was being spent for sec" tarianising their schools?

An HoNOURABLE ME~IBER: Nothing at all. Mr. ADAMSON : There was. He would

like to know how much of the £8,000 men­tioned in the report which went to the Rail­way Department and the Government Printer­was expended on . denominational schools. He had read the report of the Inspector­General, and thought it wa.s a splendid re­port, and he honoured the man who w•as try-·

Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2533

ing to democratise our education both in the primary and secondary schools and in the University.

The bell indicated that portion of the han. member's time had expired.

Mr. ADAMSON : He would take another .five ·minutes. Personally, he thought that Mr. Roe »as tD be congratulated on his very line report. It was full of business so far as education was concerned, and he was only sorry that he could not give effect to some of the ideas embodied in it. He wished to again congratulate the Secretary for Public Instruc­tion, the Under Secretary, and all the Dffi­cers of th~ department on the splendid work they were doing. They wem working for the 'building up of this nation as an intellectual nation, and for making the future citizens of Queensland bettBr fitted to takB their part in the van of national progreso.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. MORGAN congratulated the MinistBr on repl)ing· in his speech in introducing the vote tD the remarks made by members on ihe Address in Reply, and believed that by so doing he would get his Estimates through sooner than he would have done otherwise. With regard to the suggestion made by the 'han. member who had just re~umf'd his seat that certain consideration should be shown to married assistant teachers in the cities, he honestly thought that if they were going to give any teacher'• c,onsid<eration they should -give it to those who were stationed in the country distric~s. If he had his way he would pay a h1gher salary tD teachers who went out into the oockblocks and the most unfavourable parts of the State than he would! pay to thos·e who were teaching in ·the cities and towns. He had been told, and he had no doubt there was a certain amount of truth in the •.ta,tement, that some teachers had refused to go to country towns when thev had been notified of their trans­fer, and" that political pre<~sure had bBen -brought to bear by the member for the dis­·trict on the department in order to keep those teachers in the loc::lities where they :had been stationed for man~· years.

Mr. ADAM<oN: That must have been by members on your own side of the House.

Mr. BowMAN: That is a reflection on the .department.

:Mr. MORGAN: He did not suggest from which side the political pressure came, but if the cap fitt?d itny hon. member he coui.d ·wear it. Tf teachers would persist in remain­ing in the cities and towns, where they got all the benefit' and lnxuri<' obtainuble, then those who went into tho country should reccivo higher remuneration. Meat might be cheaper in the country than it was in the to" 1, but anything that had to go from ',;he u aboard to the country cost moro than iit did in tho to;• ns. In country schools which had from fourteen to twentv-five or thirty pupils, teachers wore emploved "ho were not das·ificd. In many ntses" they were only bop and girls, and they had to teach chil­dren from six ye.:trs of <:ege up to fourteen and fifteen years, and while they were capable of bring·ing on the younger children, they had no control over the elder unes. He thought that clabbified teachers should be appointed to countrv schools, and that un­dassified teachers should work in the city 'Schools under the supervision of a classified ihead teachel·. If that suggestion were

adopted, the cost to the department would be no greater than it was at the present time. The people who went into the country were the people who built up the towns and cities, and it was only nature! that parents who had any regard for their children should wish to give them as good an educa­tion as was possible. One reason why people would not remain in the baDkblocks was that their children had not the same opportunity of getting an education as had the children in the wwns and cities, and the result was that many men left their employment in the country and came into the city in order that their children might be properly eduDated. If the department adopted his suggestion and appointed classified teachers to CDUntry schools and .allowed uncl.assified teachers to teach under classified teachers in the large centres of population, that would get <;>ver the difficulty to a great extent. He n:ot1ced that a training school for teachers had been established, and he was glad of that, because our teachers required training. If they were not trained they could not impart to the children the knowledge that they the~s<;lves possessed. He complimented the Mm1ster and the heads of the department on the work they were doing as far as the doctor, den­tist and oculist were concerned. There was no 'place where the services of members ?f those professions were more needed than m country electorates. In the town the people had a doct<Jr and a dentist almost ·against their own door, ·and it was only a matter. of a small expense for them to get such advwe as th<'y needed compared with the expense of getting such advice in country places, where there were noither doctors nor de~­tists nor oculists within miles of the resi­dents. A great number of the children of Au~tralia suffered from post-nasal growths, and the parents knew nothing of the m.att<;r until it had affected the health of the1r children. If it was notified that a . doctor would be in a certain town on a certa1n day, people living 20 miles away would bring their children there for examination and attention, and those showing symptoms of po<t-nas.al growths could have the growths r"moved in their infancy. There were men and women who were to-day suffering serious disability owing to the fact that in their infancy th<>ir parents did not know that they were affiictcd with post-nasal growths, and consequently had not had them removed. The department was meeting his district in a manner that gave satisfaction to the people. If thev could not grant a State school, they provided a nroYisional school, or a half­time school -or a tent school. The only trouble wa~ that the teachers plaoed in charge of those" schools were in many c.ases onlv boys and o-irls who were not class1fied teachers, and thev had practically no con­trol over the olde; children.

Mr. HUNTER (Ma1·anoa) congratulated the M{nister •and the Under Secretary on the very fine rFport which had been sub­mitted to Parliament. There was no mem­ber o-f the Committee who did not believe that the Under Secretary was entitled to every penny the State paid him, and he knew of no department that was so. gene­rally and highly thought of as wa" th1s par­ticular department, not only by the people outside, but also by the employe0,s of the department. It was a spending depart­ment but as far as he knew, the people of Quee~slan'd were always willing to provide

Mr. Hunter.]

2534 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

whatever money was asked for by the depart­ment, knowing that that money was very oarefully and economically expended. The people o£ the country approved most of the

\Vork that was being done in con­[7 p.m.] nection with dental and eye dis-

eases. They might not have overtaken the work so far, but it was gradually being overtaken, .and children who would otherwise have grown up suffering from diP.ease were now reoeiving attention, and they were being sav·ed from becoming physically and mentally unfit. Although occasionally one had to complain of things that might not be done, still one realised that a vast amount of money was demanded from the taxpayers, and the department was doing all that was possible for country dis­tricts. It had been felt, however, that •a sufficient amount of moncv had not been given to the department to meet the require­ments of districts where a considerable amount of development had taken place. In Roma there was a very old school indeed, and he could not hPlp mentally comparing it with the schools that the Minister referred to as being built under modern architecture. The school in Roma was responsible, to a large extent, for a lot of the children's eyes being in the state they were in tD-day. He wes in Mungalalla just twelve months ago, where an up-to-date :cchool had been recently erected, and he could not help comparing it with the gr< ,,t barn-like affair at Roma, which had very few windows and which was altogether inferior. While the dPpartment waR putting up new schools under Improved c;mditiom, he hoped they would take into account the old schools, and, as' far as possible, remodel them on up-to-datB lines. With regard to the itinerant teachers, they were meeting, to a large extent, the require­ment' of bush children, but in very scattered districts the system did not meet all require­ments, inasmuch as the periods between the visit> were too long-in some cases as long as twelve months intervening-and the parents ';;fer<o likely to get careless and not see that the chiidr<'il carried out the studies set them by the itinerant teachers. There should be more itinerant teachers appointed, or, which was much preferable, adopt the half-time school S)"tem, even if the number of pupil6 was ~mall. Then, again, the Saturdav schools, was an excellent idea, and the teachers who undertook that work should be well rewarded. After their week's work, not so much on acoount of the money received, but for the good they felt they were doing, they travelled considerable distances to givG leowns to children who otherwise would not <,btain the necessary instruction. He also desired to again refer to the small remunera· tion given to pupil and assistant teachers. Last year he referred to the matter, and, although the Minister had indicated that a considerable advance had taken place dur­ing the l-ast four years, still the teachers were underpaid, particularly the lower-gmde teachers. The department should aim at a higher standa.rd of salary for the school teachers,. and it was a great thing for the Under Secretary and the office staff that they were able to keep such a large num· ber of loyal servants in the department. In spite of the fact that they felt they were not receiving the amount of remuneration due to them, they were still loyal to the department. There was no cl-ass of men who were more !oval and more faithful to the head of the department than the officers of

[1!fr. Hunter.

the Education Department, and yet they were not receiving the same an;ount of rH•

n1uneration relatively as officers m the othe1• departments. There was no class of servant doing better work for Queensland than the school teachers, whose work was performed under very great difficulties at times. Tako, for ex·ample, the men who went out tq the bush schools. They were removed from all associations to which they had been aocus· tamed and were practically hidden for months together. He kne": ?f one i~stance where a sina-le man was hvmg by h1mself, and, except "'for the children who attended the school he hardly met anyone from one month's e~d to another. He desired that the department would. ende,?-vour, as fa1: as possible, when anythmg like a auffimen1l number of pupils attended a school, to e.cr"c!l'e the ,<ervices of a classified teacher. It ,, as v"ry necessary that a standard should b: set-- +,hat somebody qualified to tea.oh should have charge of the school, particu­larly in the outside centres. It was nece~sary that the bush schools should be highly equipped, and the department shoul:d he pre­pared to put a first-class teacher 111 cha1:ga where there were not less than twenty pupils. The department was givin.g scholarships al!d bursaries to enable children to obtam· Recondary education and then pass on w the University. and it was only fair that t_he hush children should have ·an opportumty of eeeurino- .scholarships. What chance had they if the school was without .a classified: teacher ·and frequ~ntly .a teacher not at all experienced? After all, . there was some· thing in a teacher havmg .some n~t:ual aptitude as well as the necessary trammg, which was all-helpful in bringing out theo latent talents which they found in their bush children. It could be 'said that amongst the· bush children were to be found some of the-· bria-htest intellects in any part of the State. As "'they had not the attractions open tD the· city children, their minds were more set on: their work and if they had teachers pre­nared to s1;end a little time on the children, there was a prospect of getting some of the brightest inteliec~; in. the State ~rom some-; of the bush schools. Some .attentiOn should also be given to the school curriculum, as •at present it was loaded too much. That was· a common complaint amongst the teachers· no matter where they went-;-t~at they_ had not time to deal with the prm01pal subJects.· There were too many sideshows in conne?·. tion with the State school system, and 1t: would be far better if ID<Jre .attention were' devoted to the three " R's,'" and then if there was any special study which the children wished to take up, well .and go_od. It waa. a pity that the children, parti?ula';'lY the· bush children should waste then time on· subjects that 'were not going to. be of any seTvice to them. He woul:d agam urge t_he Minister to seriously consider the necessity of giving the teachers more pay. The Com­mittee had never disapproved of the expen,-· diture of money on education, and, afte1· all,. the department could not be doing the work it should be doing if the men and women employed by the department. were not r~­oeiving adequate remuneratiOn for the1r work. It was "'€nerally acknowledged that the Southern st';.tes paid higher salaries w their teachers than what was paid in Queens­land. It was not .a fair thing to draw too largely on the fund of loyalty which t!'e department enjoyed on the part of Its servants.

Supply, (6 NOVEMBER.J f?upply. 2535

:Mr. FORSYTH (Jiurrumba) thought the people of Queensland were to be congratu­lated upon their system of education. He quite agreed with the han. member who had just sat down that the education vote "·as one which was not begrudged by any han. member, no matter on which side he sat. It was one which was al\\ ays received sym­pathetically, and passed with pleasure. (Hear, ht>ar !) They all wished to give their children the best education possiblP. so that when they went out into the world they would be educationally equipped to meet the conditions of life. They had a very sym­pathetic Minister in tho han. member for Ipswich. He had nothing but praise for the Under Secretary. He did not think there was an increase of salary which was ever givt>n so unanimously as the extra £100 which the Under Secretary was getting.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! .

Mr. FORSYTH: The Under Secretary wa' very sympathetic with the teachers in regard to the standard of salary. Queensland was going to spend a greater t>um on education this year than had ever been spent before. The total amount would be something like £660,000, but that mont>y would not be grudged. It practically meant £1 per head for every man, woman, and child in Queens­land. The Government were doing their level best in regard to providing more schools, th, increase of salaries. and the putting of the educat!on of the children on the best footing. The question had been raised of having classified teachers in the ·w <·stern parts of the State, and he understood that classified teachers were sent to schools which had a certain attendance. He was informed that the department would be glad to send classified teachers to schools where there was only an average attendance of twenty, but, unfortunately, there was not suffi.<'ient teachers available to enable them to do that.

An HONOURABLE MEMBER ; We are losing teachers; some are leaving us.

Mr. FORSYTH·: They might lose some in that way, and they lost some by death. There must be some decrease every year. With the rapid expansion of population, they must spend a great deal more money on education. It was one of the votes that must increase, because they were continually build­ing new schools. He hoped that with the training college now in operation, the short­age of teachers would be remedied at no distant date. They could not expect to ha v'' classified teachers in schools with eight or t-en children, but he was sure that tho Government would try and send classified teachers when they possibly could to the out­side districts, where they had not the advan­tages which those Iesiding nearer towns had. He understood that compulsory attendance was to be enforced, and he thought that would be a very good thing. If the House was prepared to vote this great sum of money, it should be the duty as well as the pdvilege of parents to send their chil­dren to school. He did not see why 25 per cent. of children on the roll should not go tr, echool. They could not g<>t the full atten­dance of children on the roll, as there were causes to m·event that, but he hoped the compulsory clauses would be enforced so as to get 'the highest attendance possible. Thev had a large number of technical colleges in Queensland, and had endeavoured in every

possible way to meet all conditions in con­nection with education. He had read some of the reports of other States, and he thought that Queensland stood at the top of the poll so far as giving the children every pos' sible means of obtaining a good education was concern_ed. The question of salaries in connection with outside places had been men­tioned. Out in the backblocks the cost of living was higher and the conditions not so pleasant as in the towns, and he understood there was a "Pecial allowance up to £60 a year made to the teachers. Taking it all round, they had very little to complain about in regard to their educational system. He felt Sl):re that they could not possibly _have a more sympathetic and capable admm1strao tor than the Under Secretary, who, he­thought, had the best interests of Queensland at heart. They had to congratulate them­selves on tht>ir splendid system of educa­tion, under which their children would be equipped to make their way in the world in the best possible manner.

Mr. GRANT (Fitzroy) thought the Com­mittee ought to feel grateful to the Minister for the lucid and interesting speech which he made in introducing the vote. What a. glorious tale he had to tell ! There was nd other Minister for Education in Australia­and he doubted if there was any other State in the world-that could unfold such a tale as Queensland could at the present time. (Hear, hear!) They had an education system thev had every reason to be proud of. Not only did they tt>ach the children everything it was possible to teach, but they looked after their physical .and moral education. The other States had to take the example of Queensland in regard to the training given to the children, the medical inspection, the dental inspection, and otlier rna tters which appertained to the physical welfare. of the children. There was no other State m Aus­tralia that could lay claim to the same generous treatment of the teachers as Queens­land. They were told they were not paying the teachers enough. No one would be better pleasr.d than he would to see the teachers moJ;e highly paid, but. they woul_d co.mpare with any other States m Australia w1th re­gard to pay and qualification. At one time Queensland led, but last year he thought New South Wales put on the Estimates a much bigger sum than befor:e, and it had pu.t them slightly ahead. Was 1t a bad occupatiOn for a male teacher when at the age of twenty-one he could get nearh' £3 a week?

Mr. HUXHAM interjected.

Mr. GRANT: That wa,s to a certain ex­tent probably tru0, but if a man after pass­ing Class III. did not choose to sit for a~y more examinations, and undergo certam drudgery in passing them, whose fault was it? Then, there wem others, perhaps unfo_r­tunate like himself, who desired to remam sin"'le and tho denartment had wisely or um~is~ly set down "a rule that in 'a mixed school it was not desirable to have a bachelor teacher.

Mr. LENNOX : \Yh} don't they get married r Mr. GRANT: Probably they might desire

to pay tho penalt:>' of that, rather than rush into m·ils thev knew not of. (Laughter.) He desired to off.er immediate place to the Minister for recognising the merits of the Under Secretary. The Minister had been wore fortunato than he (Mr. Grant) was.

Mr. Grant.]

2536 Supply; [ASSEMBLY.] Supply,

He had tried to persuade the Under Secre­tary to accept a rise, but he would not do it If an.J: . mar: in Queensland deserves that recogmtwn rt was the Under Secret<try of the Education Department. (Hear, hear !) He was not only a Just administrator but he was one of the education experts' not merely of Australia but of ilhe world.' He read up and kept in touch with every new m?vement in . th<:> educational world, and trred to put rt mto operation in Queens­leond. He ~isagreed with the department in the policy m connection with the grammar schools. He was glad they were taking a forward move; but he did not think it was forward enough. The grammar schools should belong to the State ,and be adminis­tered by .the Education Department. At the present trme t.here :vas a number of people who sent their chrldren to the grammar schools ~nd plumed themselves on the fals a~'·UmJ?tron that they were paying for thei~ ~·ducatron,. but rt was entirely erroneous. Let them compare the. cost of ,a pupil in the gr;;tmmar school wrth what was paid in the prunary schools. . There _was also an evil h·ndency: The nch people could afford trJ send t~err dul~ards to the grammar school and highly-pard teachers had to try and !<eep up those dullards with brighter pupils m the school. That was quite a different system to what th~y went on in the high schools. In the: ~Igh schools children had to pass 'a quahfymg examination so that any who were un~t to take advan'tage of a se,condar;~. c.ducatron were not sent th6 r

8 T11e qua.hfymg examination was not hi h. because rt was not desirabk that they sho~Id o ;:c,lude an:v:one from the benefits of second­a.,) . edu?atwn who was at all suited t r;'cewe It. But in the grammar school~ bi··re wero no such restrictions. He knew some 15rammar S'chools where they taught the kmdergarten, whrch was outside th scupo of the secondary school altogether. I~ would cost more for the State to take over tl.1e grammar 'chools, but secondary educa­t,wn would not be complete until that "'as none. He ~reelc admitted that the trustees of

1 the Yanm~s grammar s<ehools were de­

vcang much time• and trouble· for the bm,wfit of others, and dcsen·ed even credit. B t the work coLtld be much better done und~ the ~ole juri•.diction of the dPpartmcnt. A number of people sent their childr<'n to th 'rammar ~chools, not for the bPnefits of edu~ catwn th€y were goin~ to get hut to t the hallm.ark ?f caste on the children, sop~s t~ !~ave: It sa!d that the,) had enjm·ed tl·e ~II·tmctro'.l of a grammar school ed.uc"tion . ~· achmtted that, as the State was not taldng pver the grammar schools the next lw't thmg was >•hat lbe department had done. It. would certainly throw open the gr~n1mar r...:hoo1s to a great,cr nu1nber of

,children than. at the pr<'sent time. At tho pre":nt. trme ar:yone who could pass the quahfymg evanunation could get into the gyam1:1<~r school, and whether the smn .was, m,;uflicH·nt or not was a matter that cmvd b~ worked out afterwards. He was ver · gbd that the department had gon that far .. It >\as. s"id that some teacher~ ''·:'·l:e left m crrtam schools, for which they ;•c,c utterly un~tted, because of political ·mil uc1ce: He drd not believe that there ''.a, a sm:;·le word of truth in that. Th ~ l.ncl•T Secn•to.1'' was most iealous of the ho'!OUI' of the department, and WaS the las':, man who would allow political influence t be used to the detriment of his department0

He would be very glad to learn from th~ [Mr. Grant.

Minister how the high schools were progress­ing, not merely the high schools in the large cr.ntres such as Mount Morgan, Charters Towers, Gympie, and Bundaberg, but also in places where it was found impossible to get sufficient children to build a separate high school, and it was found de,irable to put a wing on the primary school. Such was the case at Herberton.

Mr. THEODORE: It is working very satis­factorily.

Mr. GRANT: He was very glad to hear it. Gatton was another case. If there was one place suitable for a high school in Queensland he thought it was Herberton, which had one of the finest climates in Queensland, a number of mining places around it, and down on the coast populous centres like Cairns. Although they would ex­pect the children to be sent up to Herberton to get a secondary education, he found that that was not so.

M1·. THEODORE : They are applying for a high sQhool in Cairns.

Mr. GRANT: They had the population for a high school. He thought it would be one of the finest things in the North to have a high school on tlw tableland of Herberton, because it would give the children a change at a period of their life when it was very necessary. It had been said that the bush schools were neglected, and the best teachers were kept in the town. It would always be the case that a number of persons would be anxious to remain in the populous centres. But the department had a good system by which a girl t~acher had the right to come back to the city after she had been two years a way in the countr·y. In the case of a male teacher it wa' a bit longer. The hon. member for Marano a spoke about " side: -hows " in connection with the department. He really did not know to what he 11as referring. He knew that the curriculum "as a bit over­crowded, and a committee was· appointed to try to clear away what were considered superfluous items. Some of the male teachers thought that domestic economy was not ncccs,arv. He thought it was more essen­tial for· girls to know domestic economy, cooking, and Pewing, than almost any other branch of education.

HONOURABLE JY1EMBER2: Hear, hear !

Mr. GRANT: He thought there would be more happy homes in Queensland if that ·\\.·ere recognisril .

An IIoxouRABLE J\1E1IBER: Are you speak­ing from experience. (Laughter.)

l\Ir. GR/cNT: '\Vhen a deputation from the Ylomcn's League of Queensland waited on him to ask that domestic economy should be introdncod, he certainly had much plea­oure in saying that if it could be done it would be done. In the big centres, the de­partment sent a number of girls from the la1:;·e schools to the technical colleges free of c"··' to l'loCeive instruction in cooking and sewing. There was ·~nothcr matter which had bceri"touched upon, and which he thought the department should take in hand promptly. That \P.s trade classes. Thev had two very strong el0mcnts to con'•"nd against. There was what he might call the rabid trade m;ioniet, who objected t? any heyond a cer­tam number of apprentrces being taught a trade.

Mr. THEODORE : Very few unionists.

Supply. (6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2537

Mr. GRANT: Did not almost every wages 'board determination provide that only a cer­:tain number of apprentices should be em­ployed?

Mr. THEODORE : Employed, but not taught. Mr. GRANT : Why .should our boys be

taught in the workshops without any pay? 'Take, for instance, the case of plumbing in Brisbane. Say that there were only fifty positions for boys at that trade, and that there were seventy boys anxious to become plumber.,, where were the twenty to get their ·education in that particular trade? The apprenticeship system was dying out, not

·only in Australia, but all over the world, and if they wanted to get their boys taught .a manual trade it must be done in the technical colleges.

Mr. THEODORE: Employers are more to blame than employees.

Mr. GRANT: The department wore up against u big obstacle, the employers on the '()ne hand and tho trade unions on the other. The work the technical colleges were doin~Y at the present time in connection with trad~ classes was really not of a high standard and he said so with sorrow. The boy went and took lessons at the technical college for twelve monthd, and at the end of that time he '\as able to make a ease or a door. \Vhat

·they wanted was that they should have classes Ill the technical colleges such that a bov could go there and devote eight hours a day to it. And did hon. members mean to toll him that after three years at a properly organised class thev would not know more about the trade tha!1 if they had been message boys "ith a contractor for the first year of their time?

Mr. H UXHA '\[ : Hear, hear ! He carries the glu~pot all that time.

The bell indicated that portion of the hon. member's time h<td expired.

Mr. GR.\ NT: He would take another fivb minutes. They ought to have every technical college in Queensland so equipp< d that if a boy wanted to be a carpenter, a plumber, or an engineer, or an\ other tradesman he could go there and gd his full edueation, and they would thus turn out better tradf,men than they were doing at the present time. He knew that Mr. l\Iorris and ::\Ir. Riddell were two cxc·ellont nwn, who would be able to do a lot of work in connection with the matter, and he hoped the department were going to push trade classes. The hon. mem­ber for Roekhampton opokB of the need of a now State school at Depot Hill. Mince the formation of the new workshops at Hock­hampton the infant childrBn were not able to gd to the other schools, and thov \'. ~nted an infants' school there. Takintr, th"o <'lepart­ment as a. v ho],,, he had nothing but prai -e for their work. 'Tbny v ere doing excellent work in the matter of dental imnection, and in l'\Ir. Hacnke they had a man -whoso heart was in hi> '';ork, and he not only ir,;peoiec! the children's teeth bnt, as a matter of fact when tho parents could not pa:; for surgical treatment he dicl it himself. 'The donartment utilis~d the scrvicBs oi Dr. Rodger ex~hnively. and every hospihl doctor was paid a certain H.lm to treat the children in his toj'n, v·ithout any distinr-tion of race> or colour, or anv dis­crimination Mtween State or denominational school. He hoped that at length the scourge of trachoma would be rooted out. The State was doing everything it posoibly could by means of using gauze and \vire-netting in the scho0ls and 1-y giving medicine free, hut the trouble was not treated scientifically until Dr. Rodger was appointed. The hon. member for

Murilla had mentioned the ncce,;,ity of the inspectors going into the small towns. It was not possible to do that. '!'hey paid the PO<pi­ta! doctors at Brisbane, Rockhampton, 'Townsville, and Toowoomba to look after the children and in Brisbane the Dental Col­lege attend~d to the childen's teeth free of charge and the departmental inspectors tra­velled 'about. They were spending something like £1 a head of population on education, and he hoped that not only those of them who believed in democracy, but everybody, would have well educated, intelligent, and healthy children to come, after those who had so paved the way for them.

Mr. THEODORE thought the hon. mem­ber, in his reference to the question of trade classes, was barking up the wrong tree. He assured the hon. member that the trades unionists were assisting in every possible way for the effective establishment of such clas.ses. The character of their objections to appren­tices were indicated by their favouring the incorporation in such measures as the In­dustrial Peace Act of a provision to restrict tho number of apprentices that might,.be employed by one employer. The object was not to restrict the number that might be taught, but ~o restrict unfair employers from employing a greater number than was fair, and more, perhaps, that he could teach.

l\Ir. GRANT: I think that is a fair thing. Mr. THEODORE : Some employers were

anxious to get cheap labour by means of those apprentices, not to improve the education of the persons they emp!oyBd. The unionists were up against that idea, and <>very wages board award that was made under the old Act regulated the matter. The employers were the worst enemies of the apprentice system, for the reason that they did not teach the apprentices in an effective manner. They had apprentices working for long years in many cases, and then turned them out in­different workmen. The trade unionists would be only too willing to assist in estab­lishing tr:ade classes in which boys could be taught the trades they desired to follow. Members on the Opposition side of the Ilousa had often advocated the extension of that sys­tem. Last session and the ses,;ion before he himself advocated the establishment of indus. trial fellowships, which had proved a success in America. Those fellowships wer:e a develop­ment of the idea of trade classes, and offered encouragement to those who desired to pursuP investigations with respect to different in­dustries, and had led to the discovery of many things which had improved the con­ditions of various industries in America. He rose particularly to makP reference to the question raised by the· hon. member for Maranoa in regard to the treatment of pupil. teachers as compared with other teachers in the service. According to the facts supplied to him, pupil-teachers were at a great dis­advantage as compared with teachers on pro­bation, who might not have any higher qualifications than pupil-teachers. He had been told that teachers coming from the other States at the instance of the depart­ment were put on as assistant teachers on probation without examination, so long as thev had certain qualifications. Those teachers, who were termed imported teachers, had been instructed for a year cir so in a colle!J'e, but in many cases they had no practical knowledge of teaching, while pupil­teachers had bePn teaching for three or four Y<'ars and hnd as high qualifications as the imported tPachers, though it was not

JJ-!1-. Theodore]

2538 Sunty. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

considered that they were worth as much salary. Them was .another class of assistant teachcc-natpely, tho one who wa3 appointed to the positiOn of te-acher in a small school. Accordmg _to the regulations, such a teacher had only to pas·, ·an examination equal to fifth­cia"' work._ After passing that <'xamination he must receive six weeks' training in so1ne s?hool, and then he could take up the posi­tiOn as teacher of a small school. It often hap_Pened that the imported teacher on pro­batiOn and the teacher in charge of smaJI schools had no practical knowledge of teach­mg. "¥' et they were placed over ·the heads of pupil-tea9hers who had had four years of actual teachi;rg. The male classified assistant teacher received £110 per annum, and the female teacher £80 per annum. The allow­ance made to pupil-teachers for the first year was £45 for males and £25 for females· for the second year £65 for males and £35 for fe,males; for tf>e third year £70 for maleo and £50 for females ; and for the fourth year £80 for males and £60 for females. If those stat~ments were in accordance with fact puwl-teachers did not receive very much en: c~mragement. It was desirable that a suffi­Cient :r;umber of . young men and young women m the State should qffer their eRrvicE"• as teachers, and they were not likely to do so unless they received greater encourage­~ent. Tl:e depa;rtment, he knew, had great difficulty m gettmg young people, especially male teachers. Probably that was due to thP fact that sufficient ittducements were not offe~ed to young Quecnslanders to enter the se_rvice. With regard to countrv schools he wished to ernph~sise th'? fact that the depart­ment gave specral consideratwn to schools in the South. fie did not know whether there :"as any desire to do that, but· that was how It worked . out. Schools in the 1'\orth and W: est .and m some parts of the Central dis­trrct. seemed to be sadly neglected as fa!' as classified teachers were concerned. For in­stance, at Chillagoe the average attendance .according to the l~st return, was 171, and there we~e two classified and four unclassified teachers m that school. Comparing the staff­!ng of that sch?ol with the staffing of schools m the South, rt would be seen that the ad­vantages were in favour of tho Southern schools. He would give a few figures taken from the official returns. They were as follows:-

Classi- Unclassi-School. A verage fied fied

Attendance. Teachers. Teachers. Chillagoe Toowoomba

171 2 4

North (Boys) Toowoomba

171 5 1

South (Boys) 173 6 1 Oakey... . .. 175 4 3 Southport 175 5 2 Laidley North 160 4 2 Gladstone

On~~ 151 4 2

Gym pie mile (Boys) ... 153

Gympie One-5 1

mile (Girls) ... 134 4 1 :Knoggera ... 141 3 2 Fortitude Val-

ley (Girls) ... 343 13 0

Thu last-mentioned school had double the number of pupils in average attendance that the Chillagoe school hac\, but it had morEl than double the number of teachers and thev were all classified~ Then, take a~other ex­ample of a j\.iorth Queensland school.

[21fr. Theodore.

Irvinebank school had an average attend­ance of 211, and had four classified teachers and two unclassified. The comparison with Southern schools of about the same average attendance was as follows:-

Classi- Unclassi· School. Average fied fied

Attendance. Teachers. Teachers...-Leichhardt

street '(Girls) Fortitude Val-

243 8 0

Icy (Infants) 198 6 2 East Bunda-

berg ... 207 5 3 Childers 186 5 0 Dalby 220 7 1 Gym pie (Cen-

tral Boys) ... 206 5 3 Monkland 207 6 2

He might continue the list, l;iut it v. as un­necessary to do so. The figures which he had quoted seemed to indicate that the Northern schools were neglected in the matter vf classi­fied tea~hers, though th~ir te~ching staffs ··ver•> fairly strong numeriCally. What they rcrjuired was classified teachers as far as they could be supplied. He knew that the de­partment could not supply classified teachers if they had not got them, but he did not think unfair prefcrenf'•e should be given to Southern schools in that respect. Another matter to which he wished to refer was the difficulty that teachers who served many yeo,rs in country districts experienced in get­ting a transfer to the coast or to the South, where the climatic and other conditions were more congenial. He understood that very often such teachers were unable ·to obtain transfers, as they could not get other teachers of schools of the carne status to exchange with them. He did not think they should a•k teachers who had reached a certain standard in N orthcrn schools to accept transfer to a school of lower status, or to wait for an un­reasonably long period before getting a trans­fer to a better climate or more congenial surroundingo. He hoped the Minister would tell the Committee what actuated the depart­ment in the matter of allotting classified' teachers to the different schools, and whether something could not be done for the teachers who had served many years in the North and West.

Mr. CAINE (Bowen) congratulated the de­partment on the efficient staff of teachers it possessed, and he could not help saying a v;ord in regard to the Under Secretary. He could say without any flattery that the de­partment was fortunate in having :Mr. Story as Under Secretary. Not only had he ex­perience, but he at ali times showed excellent. judgment, and was pos,,essed of an enthu­siasm which was a great help to the work of' the department. The officers under him also carrie<:\ out their work effic'ently and with keen mterest, as those members who had· occasion to call at the office from time to time could testify, and be should like to take t~1is opportunity of expressing his apprecia­tron of their courtesy. The department was also fortunate in having lYir. Roe as Inspector­General. Of the abilitv and qualifications of that gentleman there was no need for him to• say anythii'lg. \Vith regard to improvements

which were from .time to time [8 p.m.] requir·ed, there was only one·

matter that he would like to refer to in particular, and that was in regard to the general r'<luei't for pL+ysheds. The :Minis­ter referred particularly to the need for sheds in the Western district, but, 'as an hon. mem­ber intNjected, they were just as much needed

Supply,

in the Korth, where the heat partieularly in the wet season, demanded th~t pro ncr she :tcr should l:e provided. He pointed out that the cond1tJons m connection 'vith the Cannon Valley ·-~hool, ncar Proserpine, were vei·y wet mdeed, owmg to tho nature of the countrv and it vas parti, ularly desirable that a play: shed should be constructed there. He hoped tho l'\!Imstor would t ,ke a note of that matter and, if po·,,ibk, in the ncar fnture see that ~ playFlwd was orcded. There was no doubt that Ill the countrv districb. there was a particular need for qualified teachers. As a matter of fact, the conntr ,. tead1ers them­soJvc•s had ~omplain_ed that 'they had no op­portun;ty of acqmrm,:, the art of imparting education to others. He quite realised that the fnnds at the disposal of tho department would not achnit uf the l\Ii"IiHh._)r doing exact1y all he wanted, hut he trusted efforts would ]y.• mnch to c:o a little moro in that direetion than had L"~n ?one in lhe past. Something had b,•en smd m ro1rard to the curriculum and there v .ts n.; dot~bt that t( 2 schedule "'"'~ 1:,1thc'r 0-..:;::tensiYf'.. Ther,e v~c1:e too many ,u h­Jects for the chtldren to be taught, but he must cor:fcss that hf' was not readv to cay what s:>bJccts should be tru~k out. He hoped the :\!Jmctcr. '"-ould grve careful considerdion to the matter, bf'cau"·c> it was much better to h ach h)mo subjects well than to altempt to teach "· numl·er of 3ubj0c+s and not do it pro­p<'rly. He was cJacl to lmo'v that there was a, high school attached to practically every State school 'rhrro tho number· of pupils ":·.rranted r+. 'T'hat "·as a Yery excellent n;ove, 1ndred. An application was ma,dB some trme ag-o from Ayr for a high school to be .establi.1Pd there, hut it was 'turned down as the num?er of r~upih, over a certain age \Vas not ~uffi~wnt. I he ,tops that h:;d been ta 'r~n to grve mstruction to teachers in the art of t~achmr; was, no doubt, an estimable one, and the work w'?u)d be done in a better way if a separate trammg school had ooen established. Of coursP, tho scheme was not complete-it ~?uld only be limited _at first-but, no doubt, '" would be expanded rn the near future. He did nat agree with what one or two hon. members had said in regard to grammar s~hools not being conducted as at present. '1. he present system was an excellent one and ~he; work was being carried out very' well mdeed. It was- very desirable that the trus­tees should be a1lowed to carry out the work as at present, because if the grammar schools v"efe taken over by the State, it would un­doubtedly mean increased cust and he did not sec why they should do' that. Why should not the parents of children who were well able to _pay ordinary fees not be givcm an opportumty of reducing the cost to the State? There was ample scope for the funds o_f the State to be employed in other diroc­twns, and, therefore,· the department was wise in leaving the .,rammar schools in the hands of trustees. It was a good thing to have high schools as well as grammar schools, as it would bring about emulation amongst pupils and masters which would help to im­prove. the standa!·d of the schools. They could not arm at too hrgh a standard, and that kind of competition was very good in that respect. Hecently there had been a good deal of complaint from the trustees of the Brisbane Grammar School· that the amount offered-10 guineas per pupil-was not sufficient. He was sorry to hear that that was so, and he was glad to know that the Minister was not particularly wedded to that amount but was ready, if it was shown that it was ir:{sufficient to increase the arnount. '

Mr. HuxHAM: Sixteen guineas was refused.

(Jupply. 2539

Mr. CAINE : He had not heard that. He had been talking the matter over with one of the trustees, and had received quite different information. He hoped the Govern­ment would meet the trustees in that matter. Heference had been made to the University site, and he must eonfess that it was a matter for regret that the University was in its present position, and he hoped that as soon as possible University buildings would be erected on a proper site, prcoumably the site selected some time ago for that purpose -at any rate, a site where there would be room for expansion. He was ghd to see" that recently there had been increases in the salaries paid to teachers, but he fully realised that in the past the teachers probably received lower salaries than any other Government servants. Although :recently there had been a fair increase, there was; still room fo1· further increases. When one realised the class of work the teachers performed, the patience and care required, the education they were required tD possess, aud tho training they were required to undergo:.___when one realised the importance of the work as far as the State was con­cenwd-then one mu,st come to the con­clu.sion that they were still insufficiently pard. At the same time, he recognised the fact that the Government we''e limited to the funds available. He hoped that at the first opportunity there would be a further increase in the matter of salary and also in the allow­ance for rent and living in the West -and) North. Taking the department as a whole, one must admit-as the Minister had pointed out-that it was in a verv high state of efficieney, and that they could well be proud of their Education Department.

At eleven minutes past 8 o'clock,

The OHAIHMAN sa.id: Under Standing Order No. 11, I call on the hon. member for Leichhardt to relieve me in the ohair.

Mr. HARDACRE thereupon took the chair.

Mr. LENNON said he did not want to travel over the whole ground travelled by so many members in eulogie; of the depart· ment, but he wanted to point out one little· difficulty. The itiner-ant teachers had been· a great boon to the people in the West, and' they had alwa.ys been advocated b~· members, of the Opposition. He was glad to see that the number had now reached seventeen, .and: he thought the system was capable ef further expansion. He was .also pleased to: note that the department had instituted a system of half-time teachers in isolated places. But he had a place in his mind, called Long Pocket, near Ingham, and the childi·en in. that place were denied education simply because there· was not a sufficient number, according to the regulation, to justify the establishment of a State school. The depart­ment was ,already educating aboriginals, and if itinerant teachers were visiting the chil­dren in the far \Vest, and half-time schools· were provided in other cases, he thought in special cases such as he had mentioned the regulations should be set aside; and although the number of children did not come up to the requirements of the J:egulations, some­thing might ·be done to give the children an education. There were several State schoo!s,­in the dmorict, and he would suggest that the department increase the staff of one of the adjacent schools, and one teacher might, be permitted to go to Long Pocket three·

Mr. Lennon.J

·2540 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply,

days a week, as a beginning, to give instruo· . tion to the children in that isola ted place. The residents had made .application to the

.-department, and he was sure that the matter had been very fully considered by the Under SEcretary and the Minister, but the regula­. tions stood in the way, and this was one of :the cases in which he felt inclined to say, " Hang the regulations !" He believed the Under Secretary would do so if the regula­tions permitted him. Unfortunately, the statutory number of children could not be .reached just yet. He had no doubt that the people in the district were doing their bBst to satisfy the department in that regard, but they had to wait, not only till there was a sufficient number of children, but until they were of school age. The people up there had su!fered the greatest disappointment, •as they fully believed they would get the schooL The school had been refused and turned <lown. He did not say it was turned down finally, but he would like to appeal to the Minister to see if he could not find some way to meet those people in the peculiar -circumstances under which they were oauffering.

Mr. BEBBINGTON (Drayton) congratu­lated the ::\Iinister and the l:nder Secretary ·on the excellent report of the department. ·They all joined in congratulating the l:nder s,:·.,crotar::~ on his rhe in salary, because thny belieyed he had the interest of the pupils and teachers at heart. He had done eYcr0 thing possible to meet him (Mr. Beb­bington) in anything that he had asked. There v,ere some places on the Range where rt was almost impos.3ible to get enough chil­dren to kee11 a teacher, and the Under Secretary had done his best by offering to pay a teacher to go on a Saturday. With regard to State children, hP knew that c·vnry possible care was taken to see that those boys and !!iris were fitted to earn their living when thoi1· time was up, and they were ver) careful who th8y were placed with.

Mr. HAl'![]LTON : That comes in under the .Home Secretary's Department.

~'.Jr. BEBBINGTON: The !l"reatest corn­plaint thE'v had was with regard to the lack <Jf qualified teachers for country places. The little school was the only means of educa­tion that the children in the country had, but in the towns and citic1 there were t?,"rammar schools, and unle~s they had quali­'fied teachers in the bush the children would haYe no cha.ncr' of obtainin!l" scholarships in the higher schools. He was pleased to add his testimony to the great improvement in the buildings and the good light and venti­lation which had been nrovided for the children. He could bear out what the Minis­ter had said with regard to this mattm' by the schools in his own distl"ict. He ha..d nc.tcd what had been said with regard to medical inspection. When travelling in the West, one would get the opinion that th""y ''"'' breedi•1g- a •,E't of children with their eye" far back in their head. This cond i­tion was caused by the flies and blight. II:" saw that one doctor had recommended fly veils. Thev could scarcoh- ride in son:t e places unlE'··~ they had thein. Sometimes it would be r~ther difficult for the children to get them, as they might be a c~siderable <:listanco from a townshin, and it would be n good thing if the depai·tment got a suppl :y ,end "Old them at cost price to children in

I.Yr. Lennon.

those places. One of the best things in the report was contained in paragraph 101, which stated-

:• (1) A scholarship, with a currency ~£ three vears to be granted to every candi­date \Vho ~akes not less than 50 per cerit. in the annual scholarship examination.

" (2) The scholarships to be available at any State high school "-

And here was the main thing-

" technical high school, grammar school, or approved secondary school in the State.

" (3) An allowance at the rate of £30 per annum to be paid to. every scholar­ship winner who must hve away from home to attend a secondarv school, and of £12 per annum to every scholarship­winner who can live at home and attend a secondary school ; provided that in each case the income of the parents does not exceed £156 per annum, or £30 per annum per head of famil)."

He believed that was going to revolutionise our social life in Queenslan.d, because these privileges had only been enJoye~ by the few in the past They had been enJoy~d by the rich but now every boy and girl would hav~ an opportunity to get a grammar.school education. But what were they gomg to do with them when they had educated the;n .? \Vere th<>v educating them all for the CIVIl oorvice, or for law;yer'" or doctors? \Vhat were they going t'? find. them ernploymt;nt at? \Yho was gomg to do the mdustoal work 9 If they educated them for lawyeFs t]wy would be causing trouble to get cases m cou:rt, and if they were all educated for doctors they would get up smallpox •cares o:· something of that. sort, so as to make trade. Trade had to come, and they had to he kept. When they had given ~ hoy a University eduPCltion, he was not going back to plough and dig postholes.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Why not?

Mr. BEBBINGTON: Because he would not do it. Had the' ever seen one that would do it? Decidedly not. (Laughter.) He . would read a clause from the report of the D1rec.to1· of Labour which he thought solved the diffi­culty.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order.! I must ask the hon. member to confine hiS remarks to the question.

:Mr. BEBBI:'\GTON: He was referring to thP menns of education. This was a demand for trained workers, and he was sure that the Chairman will admit that he was right-

" ·with the development of industries arisr·s the demand for skilled workers, and if the State i.' to grow in self-de­pendence industrialh·, it has either to import tradesmen or make them."

He thought that technical high schools .would s~lve the difficultv. If they were gomg to be a prosperous ·nation, they must be a!' industrious nation and he thought that this money could be best spent in the technical high schooL He com\dered that a good tradesman-a good engmeer or carpenter­"'""' a vcrv much better citizen than a bad doctor or iawver. If the State spent money on tho education of each individual, it had a. right to say something as to what was going to become of him,. and what it was going to get back for that education. He

Supply. [ 6 N OVEMBER.j Supply.

thought the provision of technical high sQhools really solved the difficulty. A farmer or worker might want his son to become an engineer or carpenter, but if he was going to spend his time up to seventeen or eighteen ;rears of age in .a University or high school, It was too late then to go back to an ap­JH"<.mtice"hip. They knew perfectly well that there were hundreds of young men walking round the streets who were only half ,-Jucatcd in their business. They had had a little bit of learning, and the majority of masters would employ them, if they were not prohibited from doing it by legislation to fill the places verv often of men with familiev, and so cut "down wages and en­courage cheap labour.

Mr. FIHELLY: Do ·you believe in low wage.q?

Mr. BEBBINGTON: He paid better wages than the han. member. The hon. member had nevDr paid 1s. a week in his life. (Laughter.) He thought that a half­trained tradesman was a loes to the com­munity. They knew that in many cases where apprentictos went into ironworks, the first idea was to get as much out of them as possible, and very often let them learn as little as they could, and they were turned out unfinished tradesmen, and were a loss to the c_ommunity. The same thing hap­pen8d with dozens of young men who came from the old countrv. ·when thev 011me to employ them, they \vere found to be what they had been trained to be : they were practically trained to do nothing at all. By spending the money in the technical education of their children the difficulty would be met. The Under Secretary had that evening given him the assurance th<tt the £30 which was going to an ordinary working parent could be either employed to put his son in the University or high school, or added towards his training in entering a technical school. He thought that solved the difficulty. HA congratulated the officers on their splendid report. {Hear, hear!)

Mr. HUXHAM (Buranda) did not think they should be lacking in expressing their appreciation of the Minister for the lucid explanation which he had made, and which he thought would enable them to get through their business more quickly than if they had been left to pick out the details for themselves. He was pleased that the services of Mr. Story were so much appre­Qiated by han. members. He recognised that it required a man of Mr. Story's tempera­ment to keep a large department such as the Education Department-in which there were some 3,000 officers-well in hand. Con­sidering the large number Mr. Story was controlling, he thought that the fact that only 297 had left the department last year spoke well for the administration. He was satisfied that a man of different tempera­ment to Mr. Story in that position would drive many more out of the department, and they were to be congratulated that they had only lost 265 officers through resignation. He admitt"d that a certain number got mar­ried, but that was compensated by sixty­seven being readmitted. It was necessary to have some one at the head of the depart­ment to make things run smoothly, and he maintained that a man like Mr. Story would keep his department in hand far better than a man who was constantly bullying and making his subordinates uncomfortable. They had good teachers. He dealt with it from t)lis standpoint : He recognised that,

considering they were the very essence o£ the department, the teachers should have far more consideration at the hands of the department in the fuwre than in the past. He was not going to say that the Ministers in time gone by had not made the best use of the money at their disposal, but he re­cognised that whore the office was dependent upon tho teachers for their being in the community that they should renognise the teachers' claim, from the inspectors down· Wdrd,, as one to be considered before all other·. 'When t1ley made an analysis of th" 'number of officers, they found that the posi­tion stood in this relationship-the in­spectorial staff and the State schools .ab­sorbed 85 per cent. of the entire YDtf', the University one twentieth, and so on. \Vhen they came to tho Chief Office, and the medical inspection, e.chools of arts, that were m;trancous to the department, they found that they were only 6 per cent. _of the _vote. \Vhen they came to the salarws, qmte a diffment method was .adopted. The Chief Office and medical inspection, forty-seven officers, averaged £197 annual .salary, where­as the teachers and the inspectorial staff, numbering 2,980, averaged about £132 annual salary. He maintained that if they were to get satisfaction with thoii· teachers, and induce them to go outside into the country -and he symp<tthised very largely with the remarks of the hon. member for Murilla and other members representing country con­,,tituon~ies that they should have a good class d teacher-thm· would have to pay their teachers more adequately, uonsidering their qualifications and service. He did not for one moment think that they should expect in th0 country the same :high standard as in the city, because in the cities the· teachers were in touch with each othDr, but in the country there were very few of their own class to associate with and exchange idDas with, and they became rusty. It was a fact' that a Class II., Division 3, teacher got £170 a year, and they knew .that many of them were head teachers at that classi­fication; he did not mean to say that they did not receive more than that 'alary­and it was not very much enQouragement to a young fellow who had obtained that high classific"'tion to remain in the service. Then, in Class I., Division 1, the maximum was £270, which for a man of such high educational attainments and such length of service was not a sufficient inducement, and when the opportunity ,arose it was not sur­prising that he went outside to get .some­thing higher, as a private teacher, in cor­respondence classes, and in other ways. l'ertain remarks had been made with refer­ence to the compulsory school age of children. They were kept at school 'till they were fourteen years of age, and it seemed 'to him that they wanted an assimi­lation between that fourteen years and the allowance that was made to mothers by the Home Department for their children. He knew that this was diverging a little, but they had to remember that there was an hiatus betwee-n the time at which children must remnin at school and the time at which they could go to work. The allowance ceased at thirteen, and he thought the Government should consider whether the allowance sbould not be increased to enablP people who were too poor to keep their children at school up to fourteen vc·ars of a rw to receive assistance from the State, and so keep their children at school to got a higher educa­t;on. He w:mted to make a comparison be­tween the rates of saJaries which were being-

JYir. Huxham,]

:2542 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

paid in the department. He did not grudge what was being given to the officers in the -Chief Offi, e, but he did say that there was a very big disparity between the increases given to them and those given to the teachers. They recogni,ed that in the two higher divisions of their classification, a teacher could only advance at the rate of .£20 about every three years, whereas if they went to the Blue Book and the present Estimates, they would find that officers in the Chief Office got rises varying from £10 to .£20 last year, and this year that sort o£ thing was repeatc<l, although not to the same extent. The teachers would want to know why they were getting only £6 13s 4d. on an average per year, whilst the in­creases to the officers in the Chief Office were £10, £20, and £30 per· year. The notes he had tak<en had been very largely covered by hon. members who had preceded him, and he did not want to repeat what they had eaid, because it was absolute waste of time. They could heartily congratulate the Minister on the report submitted to them, and thn D nder Secretary for the manner in which he had his department in hand, and he felt certain that in vears to come they would be able to recognise his work equally as much as they had appreciated the services of men not as worthy as Mr. StoQ·. He hoped the time vvas not far distant when he would get £900 or £1,000 a year. (Hear, hear !) He noticed that from the time the Inspector of Schools was appointed at £800 a year, he had not re­ceived any increase. He did not know Mr. Roe ; he had not spoken to him; but it seemed most anomolous that no increase had been given to him since he was ap­pointed. A man with such high attainments as Mr. Roe, and such ability as an educa­tionalist, de,erved the utmost consideration in the matter of salary. He admitted that £800 wo"s a very substantial sum of money, but in view of the fact that others were re­ceiving £:].,000 per year, he sincerely hoped that he would be considered.

Mr. FIHE,LLY: Last s0ssion, when the Estimate' were before the Committee, he brought under the notice of the Minister the f.act that the medio:tl vote had not been ex­pended, but that some large amount had been !Pft over. He thought that was a pity.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : I explained all that.

Mr. FIHELLY: Unfortunately, he was absent from the Chamber for half an hour Dr so, but he. thought that it was unfortunate that the vote was not expended. He did not think that any explanation could cover tbe matter. Under the New Zealand system every child had a special card and Was indexed, and that system should be follmved here, <1nd the child', health tr.,ced ·from the time it entered the school until it left. Be was sure that the department knew so:tne­thing of that system, and to his mind they should organise something similar here, and IDok after the children better than they did. As he was reminded, they had something similar in New South Wales. Last year they voted in Queensland £5,900, but only £4,900 was spent. They should spend the full amount voted, and, if necessary, they coll.ld vote a couple of thousand extra for such an important item. He was rather at a dis­advantage, seeing that his speech had been practically .anticipated by the hon. memher ·for Drayton, who had taken his good poi~ts

[i!lr. Huxham.

and elaborated them. (Laughter.) He l~ft his notes about the Chamber, he was afraid. (Laughter.) There was was ,another matter to which he wished to refer-the matter of playgrounds. Mrs. Franc~s. Anderso1:1 of New South Wales was orgamsmg a b1g move­ment in the direction of obtaining spacious playgrounds for children. He had in his hand an illustration of the old system and the new system. The first picture was a picture of three children " playing with a dead rat, down by an old sea wall, a ~reed­ina- place of foul disease." The next pwtura w:s a beautiful playground with every ?on­venience-swings and most of the other little items dear to the heart of the child. He trusted the Minister would adopt a progres­sive policy in connedion with pia.) grounds, and have playgrvund's, not merely open spaces, but places where the children could thoroughly enjoy themselves. A pamphlet issued by Mrs. Francis Anderson put the case thus-

" )\.s physicians, we must dem-and that the schoolroom, &dmirable as are its aims and its motives, must relinquish at least one half its claims upon the time and strength of our children; that at least half of their education should be carried out in n<tture's school-the open air. The playground sh<mld be orga­nised, supervised and recognised as a vital and co-ordinate branch of our scheme of education. The playground is the chief field for the development of body and mind; of training for social life, for organisation and combination with his fellows. The real life of the child is lived not in the schoolroom, but on the playground. One of the mos~ valuable influences of the school is the effect of children upon each other. But this oan be attained in its perfection only upon the playground.

" Better a playground without a school· house, than a. sohoolhouse without a play­ground."

He agreed cordially with those sentim~n~, which he was sure JllUSt appeal to the Mmis­ter and the Under Secretary, who, he under­stood, was a very c:tpable officer. There was one other matter which he wished to refer to; that was in connection with the Uni­versit,,-. There was a great call .at present fvr ai', extension so far as a medical school

·was concerned. It was a strange anomaly that medicine should be the only prvfe,sion that could not be studied in Queensland. Every other profeo-5ion could be studied on the premises, but the youthful .aspiring medicos had to be sent South, or exported to England. He believed that fi\e years was the full medical course, and at least four years ought to be av.ailable in Queensland. He thought Mr. Story was doing well, and the GoYcrnment had not treated him badly, but they would welcome the day when a good den] more money would be spent on high schools to put them on a more efficient basis than thev were and wind up the whole system to a st;.te of perfection.

Mr. KESSELL (Port Curtis) congratitlated the Under Secretar~- on hi' increase, a;nd did not think the salary he wa~ now gettmg was too great for a position of such import­tance. He also wished to add his words of praise to the other officers of the depart­ment for the way in. which they had per-

Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2543

formed their duties. The country was also tu be congratulated upon the fact that it had a gentl.eman of sue~ .education and training occupymg the posrtwn of Secretary for Public Instruction. The han. gentleman was a Queenslander, was poR~essed of marked ability, am! was a very painstaking Minis­ter. Ko department of the State was of such outstanding importance as that which dealt with the education of the children. Those who had the training of our children from an educational standpoint, and also to some extent from a nioral standpoint, and the medical men, dentists, and oculists, who looked after their bodies, had in their hands the destinies of Australia. It might be thought that we .spent " large sum of money on education, but he believed that in the near future £1,000,000 per •annum would hardly meet our requ·irements. He was glad to hear the remarks of the Minister with regard to the school building at Cal­liope, and he hoped that action would soon be taken to place it in a proper condition. With reference to his own district, he would point out that the foundation stone of the

·Gladstone school w.as laid in 1863, so that it could not, by any stretch of the imagina­tion, be regarded as an up-to-date school. He had received a letter from the com­mittee requesting him to ask the Minister to

-enlarge the eqllipment of the s~hool and to take steps to introduce the kindergarten system. He should like to see a high school established there, also instruction classes for teachers, 1as it was an ideal place for both teachers and children to live. One hon. member had referred to political influence in the department. He thought it was rather unfair for any han. member to charge the Education Department with being subject to political influence, as he believed that any claims in regard to a school which were put forward b~- any member were considered on their merits, irrepective of which side of the House the member belonged to. He should like to hear the Minister's views with regard to the position the State would occupy with respect to the women's college. He understood that it was to be purely a training college, and he hoped the Minister would give them some idea as to how they stood with re[(ard to the matter. · Probably the most important thing in connection with our YChools was the kindergarten teaching and then came the technical classes. In ,;_ small place like Gladstone, where there was a growing population, it was extremely diffi­cult for boys and girls to obtain training in trades, and he sincerely hoped that the Minis­ter would favourably consider his suggestion to establish technical classes in that town. \Yhile he did not object to large sums of mone:· being dpent in the metropolis or the large towns. yet he hoped that the Minister would make provision as far as possible for the te,-,hnic JJ training of boys and girls in the smaller towns.

Mr. KIRWAN thought that the impCJrtant change outlined by "the Minister for Public In"truction with regard to granting scholar­ships to pupils who passed a qualifpng examination wa•c a crndit to the department. 'Queensland could claim to have taken the first step in this matter, which he noticed was receiving consideration in Victoria, where the\· had practically decided to adopt -the system introduced by the Queensland .Education Department. For the infonna­tion of the Committee, he proposed to read

a short extract from 1a letter by the Mel­bourne correspondent of the " Sydney Daily Telegraph"-

"The desirablcnes,; of sub"tituting a better test of scholarship than examina­tions and the ' cranuning ' _.)'sterns \vas discusGed by Sir Alexander Peacock, Minister for Education; Mr. F. Tate, Director of Education; and representa­tives of the University to-day. At the close of the interview the Minister stated that the school board of the l:niversity had under contemplation a considerable modification of public examinations and had lai"d certain proposals before him. The chief effect of the board's considera­tion would be to lessen the importance of examinations and rclv more on the certificate of the headmaster of a school that a pupil has gone through a par.ticu­lar couree of study in an effective man­ner. The PSsential patt of the scheme was the efficient and frequent inspection of schools. The Minister said he was

·very fayourablv impressed by the vi0ws put forward, btlt before pronouncing his decis'ion on them publicly he would have to consult his colleagues."

It was generally admitted by up-to-date educationalists that the system of cramming must be given the go-by. More than one hon. member had raised the question as to what return the State was going to receive for its vast expenditure on educ."ttion. Some han. members seemed to be. afraid that when the new scheme to which he had referred had been in operation for ten or fifteen years, it would be impossible t<l get anyone to learn a trade or engage in a manual occupation which were so nece&sary in a State like Queensland, but he did not think any such fears need be entertained. It had often occurred to him that if it was possible to ascer-tain what young boys and girls were best fitted for, we should not have so many misfits in the world. )c vast number of people in this State spent hundreds of pounds in endeavouring t<l have their daugh­ters educated as musicians, and had them taught to play the piano or some other in­strument, quite oblivious that they had no particular gift in that direction, though they might make very good milliners. Might he be permitted to congratulate the Minister on introducing -a new eystem in submitting Estimates to the Committee? He thought that in dealing with the grievances referred to by hon. members in the course of debate on the Address in Reply and on the Financial Statement, the han. gentleman had done .a great deal to expedite the passage of h1s Estimates, as he had cut the ground from under the feet of han. members. \Yith regard to appointments made to some of the large schools, he was ·given to understand, and had seen a letter on the subject iu the daily Press. that in making such appointments seniority, classification, and good conduct were not taken into consideration. He hoped that that statement could be amply refuted by the Minister. . Reference had be8n made to the appointment of a head teacher in the Eagfe Junction School. It was well known that the career of the gentleman in question had been -a splendid one; but there were teachers who had been in the department for a longer period, who had a good record, and who considered that thev had a prior claim to that appointment. "The Minister must know that if he wanted to have a contented

Mr. Kirw.m.J

2544 Supply. ASSEMBLY.] Suppl!y.

service, all such appointments should be above suspicion. A statement had hPen made to the effect that certain instruction was being given in the State schools in re­gard to the white slave traffic. He did not know whether that statement had any foundation, but thP Minister would now have an opportunity of denying or explaining. He trusted that it was not true. They had already heard of panic-striken mothers going to State schools to bring their daughters home because of the statements made in .a, circular issued by a certain organisation, no doubt with the best intention, but he be­lieved that what had been said and writt£·1 on this subject was all moonshine. The talk about it had done no good, and he trusted that the Minister would be able to say that the subject was not being dealt with in the schools by the teachers or anybody else. As far as the Secretary for Public Instruction was concerned, he ought to indeed feel proud

of his Under Secretary and of [9 p.m.] the officials connected with the

department, because members of the Committee were absolutely unanimou's in throwing bouquets at the officers in question. It only went to show that when Under Sec­retaries and the officers associated with the·n were doing their duty in a satisfactory man­ner, members of the Committee were quitA prepared to give them their meed of praise, and that should bP a sufficient answer to thos··· han. members who said that members bad no right to express disapproval of th0 acti•Jll3 of any public officer. He regretted that they had not more officers like Mr. Story, Mr. Shannon, and the late Under Secretary of th<> Home Department, as those men had do·10 the;r dnty fa;thfully, and members of the Committee were quite prepared to give .them the unstinted praise which they had deserved by honest and conscientious administration of their particular departments. He hoped the scheme outlined by the Secretary for Public Instruction would realise the antici­pations of those who had spent a considerable amount of time and earnest consideration on it. The Secretary for Public Instruction was justified in saying it was entitled to a trial, and if after twelve months' trial it was found there were any defects, hP . was sure the Secretary for Public Instruction would rectify them, and that the Committee would be prepared to vote the necessary money to make the scheme more perfect.

Mr. MAY said he was not going to be­slobber or give any special kudos to the officials of any department. A man was paid to do his duty, and should do it without extra praise. He had approached the heads of the departments in a proper. manner, and he had always received that courtes;y from them. which he had expected. The Under Secretaries were worth the money they were getting, and if members considered they were not worth it. they voted against it, as they had done in two cases. He was very pkascd that the Secretary for Public Instruction had replied to certain remarks that he (Mr. May) had made on the Address in Reply. How­ever, the people in Malbon were still dis­satisfied. It was not a very big place. The Premier had been there, but he did not stay long enough to hear everything. Deputa­tions waited on the han. gentleman while there, but of course it was well known that Ministers when travelling were on good terms :with everybody, and, though they did not

[Mr. Kirwan.

actually give promises, the people were led! to believe they would get all they asked for.

The PREMIER: Are you speaking about: schools?

Mr. MAY: Yes.

The PREMIER: My note, dated the 5th July, reads, " Erection of State school, final action declined."

Mr. MAY: He understood perfectly well that final action had been declined, but he would point out that the population was in­creasing. A new progress aosociation .had been forme-d in Malbon, and they hac! wrrttcn to him on the school question, and he hoped the Minister for Public Instruction would give the matter further consideration-;-that he would ascertain the number of pupils at­tending the school, the genera! prosperity in the district the new mines bemg opened up there, the quantity of ]and th~own open for selection in the immediate neighbourhood­if the han. gentleman took all those things into consideration he (Mr. May) thought ~e could not refuse to give them a school m Malbon. He had been trying for a very long time to get the Fri'!zland State School equipped with gauze nettmg, and he had re-· ceived the following communication from the department, under date 6th instant:-

"With- reference to your letter of 20th August last I have the honour to inform you that the \Yorks Department advises that in the contract which ha~ been let for the erection of additions to the Friez­land State school, provi.ion has been made for enclosing the verandas of the old and the new school rooms with fly-proof screens and for similarly protecting the doors and windows."

He was glad that this matter was being .at­tended to now that the summer was commg on. It h~d been remarked several times that when they wanted anything in the country, they formed themselves into a "busy bee,. for the purpose of raising the money they re­quired. They wanted a. playshed at the Friezland school. In the suburban schools about Brisbane and other cities there were nice playsheds, but at Friezland they were ft<rther away from the seat of Government, and their ,,,ants werE' not attended to as they should be. He had on one or<:asion advocat~d the erection of a new school in a certam locality. It happened that the Under Secre­tary went into t.he district, al_ld when he saw the state of affairs he Immediately took steps to have a nice little school erent.,d. He would impress upon the Minister the necessity ?f allowing the Under Secretary to take._ a ~riP' throughout the whole of the Western distrr9ts, so as to see the condition of things for him­self. He would be very ,,ympathetic wh~n he­saw the conditions which the poor children had to live under. Very often they were in want of an extra tank. In Selwyn at the present time the school tanks were empty, and the}' had to buy water at the rate of 4s. per 100· gallons. He hoped the Under Secre­tary would go round when it happened to be a dry tim0, so that he could see tlungs wlwn they were at their worst. He was 15Iad that the department had seen fit to wire-screen the Selwyn school. He wall also glad that the improvements which he had recommended with regard to the Richmond school had been effected such as providing dormer windows, which :.Vould prove very beneficial to the· children in respect of light. The population up there was increasing, and they would soon

Supply, (6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 2545

require more schools. The Minister was kind enough in hi' initial statement to refer to the use of motor-ca!s in the Flinders electorate. rJ'he road,~ in that portion of the E-Late were

t>r_y suitable for the running· of those cars. Tho bell indicated that portion of tho hon.

member's time had expired. Mr. :\IA Y: He would take another few

minutes. He thought it was far better to spend money on edu-cation than spending it on defence. He was an advor ;\te of defence. The people in Cloncurry wanted to rais0 a squadron of light horse, and had asked .him to mention it do'.Yn here, but he had asked them to write to the Fedcrd member. They were as much in favour-of defenc<J in the \Yes­tern parts of Qu••gnslan<l as were tho peop:c on the coast. He thought that £1 spent in education was far better than 15s. ,pent on defence. \Vith regard to tho universitv, \vhen that question first went through, h~ voted against the prc eent site reing used for the "Cniversit: and Technical Colicge. However, he was in the minority when the vote was taken. He contended that tho University ohoulcl be in Victoria Park, opposite Gregory terrace, oo that it would be in clo-e proximity to the hospitals. So far a, thc technical coi­l{ ge was concerned, the bui~dings were so far advanced now that they could not be shifted, but when rt c:rme to the question of dealing with tho University he hoped it \lould be· movnd to Victoria Park, bccau-e the pr"'mt building was too ·mall altogeth'r. If they had a .suitablr 11uilding erectC'G. in ·victoria Park, they could mck<' provision for having resident students there.

Mr. BOO]{ER (Wide Bay) said members were nnder an obligation to the Secretary for Public Instruction for the lucid and full way in which he had submitted his Esti­mate'· and for the information he gave t-o the Cc)mmittee ·and to the teach~rs and parents and chiJclren of Queen,lancl. It was a very happy circumstance that both the Secrctury for PuL!ic Instruction, :Mr. Blair, and the Under s."cretar•, ::Ylr. Storv. were products of tho Queensland educational svs­tem. That fact rcflect"d pleasantlY on the system. The .administration of th~ depart­ment must appeal to every member of Par­liament. When he went to the department on business, he received ev-ery courtesy, from the Minister and Under Secretary down. He was pleased to hear the Minister~ refer to the fact that for some years back there had been an endeavour to es' c1blish in the countrY districts a system of camp schools. That probably could be extended in many di<tricts. Queensland was an illustration of small settlements. They might have a settle­ment within a 5-miles radius and perhaps only twelve or fifteen children there, and it was impossible for the -department to build -a school of tho usual type, costing £300. in that place. A sc-hool of the type the Minis­ter had just mentioned would accommodate twenty children. He had built a camp of the same type on his own property, and, although it had been np for years, it was in as good repair to-day as when it wa-c built, with the exception, perhaps, that he had to renew the canvas on a particular portion now and again. He was satisfied that these buildings were not short-lived, a' an hon. member suggested the other night; and, if the lights were bad, it was an easy matter to make them absolutely good. The iron building which covered the canvas tents would also inake a splendid playshed if the department wanted to go in for a larger school at any

1913-7 R

time. The buildings were on stumps 6 or 'l feet high and the children made pia) ~heds under them. J\'othing could be better for a p]ayshecl. He would like to know from the Minister what was tho effect of the medrcal examination of the children? P.arliamimt recognised the necessity of having children examined, and the;- would like to know to what extent the childrEn were benefiting by the medical examination and the .ad.vioo given to parents. The question of taking over the grammar schools had be• n in the public eye for a long time. He thought that where high schools were established in the same districts as grammar schools it affected the grammur schools by reducing the attendance there. He would like to know if the -department had come to any decision about taking over· the grammar schools 1 The department had appointed an instruc­tor in agriculture, and his appointment would he met with approvul in the country districts. In 'orne of their State schools they found the head mastt·r did very good work in that rc·,pect. In his district there was a head master who gave demonstrations to his pupils, and the rPsults were very valuable indeed. The -department should recognise in some substantial way the valuable wmk that the head master did in connection with agri­cultural lessons in the school, and he shGuld certainlv receive a bonus for the work he was doing. The inspectors who visited the S{'hool could report to the -department and recommend some subsid) to be paid to the ho:>d te~cher for c::Jing that work. The dis­trict he referred to waJ a sugar district, and the ,-orlr the head teacher did was not only valuable to th~ district, but to the State as well. He W"-S most pleased to see an in­creased vot,, in the department k tcchni• .tl education, for +hi' r, 1 on : L0gislo.f· n had !aiel dmYn- th· t the numb ·r of ,,,lprcntices wa.< limited. and +he result '.vas that as

Ou"')lJ:da Hl p1.:-(; ~ . .-'.-1, s.: v .. · )Uld [9.30 p.m.] the:; {;Hl thn !lCC'.'coity for prn'i-

cal n1cchanics and tradesmen. \Vhat would be the n'htlt of 'he• pn·sc;t INrisla:i1·c enartmr·nts? \Ve would ha ' to in1port infcrio·· n1en fron1 othPr countries to carry on our _ff(<J.t building v~·drL. \Yhethor in regard to large foundries. tim.br<r buildin!T:·~ or anY other '<l_~ond·u,­inclustry, the lc .. islation they h .cl p •S.-d ~..~-LlS a n1os+- da.!.tlaging cirmu·ls'- >nee to our rising· young Ill£·n. \Vas it not n1uch bettor for any r.,an who had sons to have tho.ce ,ons trad~snKn ruther than hav<> them thrown out in the street -as ordinary labourers 1 That was at the bottom of a lot of our industrial troubles. A tr-ade-sman need never be out of emplo:, ment, but it was the unfortunate man who had not been per­mitted, ·and »a' not being permitted, to become a tradesman, who was the great trouble. He was certain that ev<·ry one of his friends oppo.<ite would, in his own heart, agree with him that one of the greatest dangers in connection with industrial life was the few young men who had become co-m­petent tradesmen, and the great hodv of young men who woul-d have no trade at all, and who, when the time -of stress and strain took place, were cast out into the street. That was bad for thorn and bad for the country. He thought it was competent for him to say that a tribute should b~ paid to the ex-)..finister, the hon. -memher for Fitzroy, for the gvod work he did in the departm"nt. He could say it with some knowledge-he

Mr. Booker.]

2546 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

'!Vas in touel1 with tho schools in his elec­t<Jrate-that Mr. Grant had \Yon the affec­tions of the te~chers, and he made his mark GS a ·.'tudc-:tt of education \~·hen he \Y.aS in the department.

1\Ir. BERTRAM: The Estimates had been so fully ,!iscm·· eel that he di-d not propose to occupy mu,:;h time. Indeed, it would be hardly pocsilJle to discuss them without teitcration, but there were one or two matters io which he desired to make brief reference befme the Minister replied. First of all, he wanted to make reference to Regulation !i9B. He a.,ked the ::Ylinister to-da.y a ques­tion in regar-d to the matter, and the hon. gentleman E'licl the information -,vould bs given when the Estimates \wre being dealt with. He thought the Minister must have f11rgotten the matter, bec~use when speaking be made no reference to 1t.

The SECRET/cRY FOR PUBLIC lXSTRUCTION : 1 will niscuss it later.

:Mr. BERTRAM: Regulation 59B, as most hon. members would !<now, limited the maxi- • mum amount of emoluments tha.t a teacher might receive. He understood that the:-e was a desire on the pact of a large number (1I teachers to have that portion of the rcgu­lat:ons deleted, and he also understood that the !at<> Se~retary for Public Instruction gaYc a ]JrOPlise that it would be deleted. The question he asked was \Yhether it was the intention of the preoent Minister t{) honour that promise, and he hoped that when the Minister replied he woul-d get the information sought. He want€-d to dcaw attention to the differential treat­ment between male and female teachers. It ,,eemed to him that it could not be justi­fied. For instancP, a male teacher of Class 1., Division I., received a salary of £262, whereas a female teacher of preci~ely th<>. same class and division receiV('d £216, or a rlifferen,,e of £46. A further injusti'-e was committed when a female tear·her and .a male teacher were promotf,l to th0 pO'•ition of he"d teacher. The male teacher on being promoted to a Claes I. school receiYcd an addition of £190 per year. The female teacher l'f'·~eived onl;o an fldclition of £150, so that the -difference was £40, aJtlwugh she had been promoted to the <''lme class· of school. The same thing applied to every class of teacher and everv class o£ school. There raight be some reason for it, but hA was at .a loss to under,tand what it w!!s. He .mbmittcd that if a male teacher of Cl1\.'S I., Division I., "as worth £260 a1 year, a hmale teacher, who was -doing work of equal importance, was worth the same emolument. It was said that it was a ques­tion of supply and demand. He did not think that argument held good, and he hoped that if there y. as ai)y reason. the: Secretary for Public Instruction would deal with it 'Nhen he got up to reply. Reference had been made to the grammar ochools, and he 1\'tts pleased to hear the late Minister speak !IS he did in favour of the Government tak­ing them over. He expre&·ocl similar senti­!hents last ye".r, and the more he looked into the matter, the more he >vas convinced tha-t in the interests, hot only of the schools bu-t also of the State, the GoYernment should assume control. Whilst the Minister was speaking, he interjected that the Gov<>rnment was shelving the responsibilit:-·. He reiterated that. In fairn<-<s to the Government, he tltrght to say that .a great deal was being; done, but everything was not being done

[M'r. lJooker.

that could be dono. TiF cJst- to the State of educating pupils in gramn1ar schools was vor.) much gH,. ter than the cost of edu· c .tting pupils in pri_nary schools, ~}~d he ''clime l that not only \vould the cost be reclu<:ed but that tho result wo::ld be better from an c iucational point of vie'"- The ivlinister spc1:-c in Y.Gry glowing terms of what ",·-s being done b7 the department. The Minist~r pmctically told them that they ':ere a! ,ad d every other country m the "'or!d, but he .. .-ishc.! to point out that they " 0 "' s

1Jencling less per head th:m any other

State of the \'CJmmDmvealth, .,,,th the excep­tion of Tasmania. The Commonwealth Year Book ,, ould ehow that. \Vhneas the cost of e•lucution in Qunnsland was £5 Os. 3d:, based on th,, average dai],_- attendance, 1t was £6 lOs. 5d. in Xcw South v,:ales, £5 13.~. lld. in Victoria, £5 12s. lOd. Ill Sou.th Australia, £6 7s. 2-d. in We,tern _\ustraha, and £4 13s. in TJ.smania.

Mr WILKER : \V e are getting beHer re­sult:o ..

Nr. BERTR \M: He thought they should "~)end more 1none' evPn if it 1neant 1nore taxation. "'

Mr. KESRELL: 'i\"e are spending a larg:er proportion of our income.

;'slr. BERTRAM: He believed the people of the State \Yould willingly submit to the imposition of some tax if it was to benefit education. He hoped that when the next E<timat- s were being considered the Go­ym·nrrient would soc fit to put on a larger c;mount Ior er-lucational purposes. He ad­mitte-d that an expenditure uf .£600,000 for a State like Queensland was very large, but, in vie'.Y of the importance of. educ~twn, he thought more should be done m 1ts mt~rests. He thought something should ?c. done 1n tJ:!e ,--ay of providing .school requrs1tes f?r chil­dren. While it was true that education was free in Qu< ensland, it was -also true that the fathm· of fonr or five ch1ldren was asked to put his hand into his pocket almo:· t. daily m order to p10vide books and otJ:ler s~hool re­quisitios, and he was of opmwn tnat that might very \Yell be done by. th' department. He had ven· little to complam of as f2.r a< the treatment of the schools in his doctorate \.ere c '11CP,ned. Tller<J ere no less than fonr ~c.hools in hiP electorate, and one of tho,,e wa~ tho ].c,r"'cst school in-,,the State, and another of thn';, wa, the MoC!el Kinder­garten School. The Model Kindergarten School at Kang.Hoo Point was a school of which the St . .te had <vePc reason to be proud, :md he took that opportunity of ex· pre'sing tho hope that members who 1'\'el:e inh"estl'rl in kinderg aten work would pay It a visit, a' he was sure they would ?e well repaid for th•ir trouble. In c0ncluswn, )le must expr,ss his gratification that the ::\IIm­ister had seen fit to increaoe the emoluments of the f;nder Secretary and his. d_aff .. He just feared that tho many eulog><tJC thmgs which had been said r' g.arding the Under f\Pcretarv and hiR staff might make them feel th1ct, even with the increase' given, they were inadequately paid, but he was pre­pared' tot 1 ke that risk, au-cl he congratulated the Under Secretary on his increase.

l\.!r. BOWJ\1 \N noticed t.hat there was an increase in the amount set down for educa­tion thi" y{a.r, but he did not think a single hon. member grudged that increase. They all realised that our education system was doing a great amount of good, not only to little children, but even to those who were well up in primary education, as it offered

.Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2547

them the advanbges of secondary, technical, ard L:niversitv edncn,tion. He had been ><'ked to bring' under the notice of the Min­ister the case of a teacher m one of the onburban schools who some nine years ago lost £40 in alar:· o,_, ing to a. decre,·:;e in the number of children attending his school. lie had never spoken to the gentleman in question, ,mel did not know !urn per"mally, but he ha.d been aikul to mention the lllatter. lie did not think that a teacher should be penaii ,cd because the att<-ndance a.t his w hool fell belovo" a certain standard. Sonw ollicerc in the public service had less work to do than the:v had ionnerl0 , but in rnany cases, instead of their Palaries being dec··eased, _they- had been inureased. He understood that the t-eacher to whom he re­ferred had an erc21lent record, and held a verv good position at the present time, but felt. that hB h;td not been hirly treated, in­asmuch as he had not had his old salary reinstated. Another matwr that he v:ished to mention was in connection with Hr. Johnson, the instructor in wool-classing at the Cen­tral Technical College. He unuer,tood that Mr. Johr;son as an excellent instructor, but that he n<ecived only £300 per annum. He had to go out with tho ,tudents to various ~tations, hut though his travelling expenses "\Vere paid, he received no extra remunera­tion for !hat work. He (:Mr. Bowman) was informed that there was no branch of the Central Teclmical Colleg0 which paid as well .as the wool-clas,ing branch. If i\lr. Johnson were employed by some of the big wool firms in Brisbane, be would g-Jt £400 or £500 a. yc:tr; if he had a good run m the We-st he would be abk to make as much in six months as his salarv at the Central Technical College for the whole year, as he was a. very competent man. He hoped that the Minister and the Under Secretarv would give some consideration to this case. In conclusion, he must express his satisfaction at the splen­did progress which was being .made by the Education Department. There was no Under Secrdan· that he knew who deserved an in­-crease in :~lary more than Mr. Star} did; he v. as :•n officer who did his duty and who could be approached by any member of thB House, no matter on what cide he sat, and who wac: respr-;Jted by every member in. the Houce. All he would say was, long nught he continn.e in the position of Under Secre­tary for Education.

:i\1r. FOLEY (Hundin(!burra) wished, li'm other me.-,Jbers, to congratnlvte the Under ::>ecretary on tne high position he held in the c·teem of members on both sid<Js of the Chamber. If evu· there was a dep.ntment spoken highly of, it was the Ed1v:ation De­partm"nt, ::\fenly ever) mu,Iber had s;Joken a good worr1 for the Minister 'and hi' Under Secretar,, and he {:!\lr. Foley) would be less than human if he suid anything different. Seyeral han. members had exnressed the Dpinion that tho time had arrived when the grammar s~.hools should be taken oyer by the State.

The SE"RETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : Two nleJnber::::;.

J\Ir. FOLEY: He was pleased to hear th<> Minister sav that it was the intention of the department to assist the Townsville Grammar School next year. That grammar school was in very sore straits, not because of any fault on the part of the trustees, but on account of an act of God in the shape of a. hui·ricane. The hurricane " Leonta " blew down the TownsYille Grammar School, .and instead of the Government coming to

their assistance, the onus of rebuilding the school v, .ts thrust on the trustees, and they wore compelled to borrow £3,000 from the Go\ ernment for that purpose. It was the interc,,t and rodunntion on that amount that wa~ keeping tho gramnwr school in such a parlous condition. He had 11dd8 _o<:veral appeals to the Gov£rninent for ass1stan.oe, either by way of a grant or _b~- a rFdncr-Ion it. the intore;·t and redemptiOn, but uD to the pre-' nt he had not bonn succ"''lul, and therefore hP wa_ pleased to hear the 'VIinis­ter saJ hr w.ts going to co1ne to their as::if.t­ance by giving them more State school scholar•hips, He did not know how the ;.1i,Iister was going to do ,t, because the amount on the Estimates for. dist, ict scholar­ships was £2,i'OO,_ ~he same as last year. However, the }!miSter might know some nwans hy which he could assist tho grann:1ar school, and he (.Mr. Foley) hoped the han, r:rcnHem 111 did bAcause if ever there was a bodv of trust~cs who would be glad to be relieved of their burden,, it w ts tlw trustAes of the 'l'ownsville Grammar School. · The expenditure they wore under, and the sma~l number of scholars they had, kept their IiO'-es to the grindstone all the year round, and thev found themselves with a debit bal­ance at· the end of the year. That was not a position that mty body o~ gentlemen who were assisting in the educatiOn of the young should find themselves in, and th<: Govern­ment should do something. to a·-eist the_m. He pointed out that th.ere was a very live committee connected with the Roes Island Stat<: School, and they had, by concerts a.nd other means, raised a sum of over £300 during the last t)uee years, . most of whiCh had been used m beautlfymg the school pr~mises. The depa~tment cam<; to the assistance of the committee by repamtmg the school inside and improving the light and ventilation to a considerable extent, and, ?'s far as the school was concerned, It was m a better condition nov;· in the way of light and ventilation than it was some years ago. The committee had gone. to the ext;er.sc. o£ purchJ.sing several classiCal and historiCal pictures, with which they had decorat -d the school, and those pictures were us~d rn con­n -~tion with lessons. The r o:,1,mtt~e WE;ro also very enthusiastic in. ge_tting a g:J:m­na<ium, and had been agitatmg for assist­one. Ont of the monee they i1fld collec~ed they had gone to tho cxpa1eoe of purcha~mg a \!hole outfit for a fint-cla- e gymnas:um from the Young :i\Ion's Chri;-tian Asso.ciatwn, To,,. nsville, and they we'e nm; askmg the dotJartment to erect a. shed in \\hich they conld put the gymnasium outfit. The school 'vas a mixed school, and had an average ; ttE'ndance of over 400, and it had only one small Dlavshed and it was not askmg too much -to ' a.sk 'tho department to provide nnoth<'r shed, which cou\d be used not on!y as a gymnasium, but e..s.o for te:<chP1g m during --0hool hours. Durmg certam moi_lths of the year i! was Y~'l"Y hot m To\; nsvil!e, and that being the cae•', they could not have too much shade for the children, 'and they were onlv asking a fair thing in asking the department to assist them. After the com­mittee had paid £65 for the gymnasmm out­fit it was onlv fair that the department sh~ul d come t~ thf'ir assistance an~ erect a shed in which it could be stowed, mstead of being allowed . to rot: outside. He ha~ presented the Mimster with plans and speci­fications of the shed required, and the hon. gentleman had stated that he would give the matter consideration and let him know later

Mr. Foley.]

25±8 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.} Supply •.

on what he proposed to do. The gymnasium in question would be the means of giving the children of the Ro-~ Island State School a physical education, which was as necessary as a mental education, and it would probably lead to other schools following the same example.

At 10 p.m., The CHAIRliiAN re,.umbd the chair.

Mr. O'SULLIVAN congratulated the Under Secretary on his increase of £1CO a year. He '"-'Sa very >'Orthy Under Secretary. He had always treated him (Mr. O'Sullivan) with courtesy. and he was a man who lm·ed his work. He wished to endorse what v.as said by the deputy leader of the Opposition with reference to the great difficulty there was in getting good teachers in the 'schools in the North and \Vest. It was very hard that the country distriCts should have to put up with inferior teachers. ll e did not mean that they "ere actually infei·ior, but the classified teachers whom they wanted to be s'·nt to the country schools •.vould not leave tho towns and citiGs, and the deficiency of teachers was so much felt that many parents left the country district; and took their families into the towns, where they could be sure of hav­ing_ them prop,_·rly educated. That was not a dr·,rrable state of things, because they wanted peopl0 to setne in the country. Another mat­ter he wished to bring under the notice of the }ii:-,i~tcr \\as· with re£cr{•ocf~ to Lnivcrsitv­sbdents. He was given to understand th~t thF U rliversity o~holarships were for three, years, Lut the en,- ineering course took £om­year, lo rDmplete. with the re:-ult that manv young men '' ho had aspirations to be­C'1nle eLgin,_·f""r~ 1.vor, deb'llTPd fr{ :n taking­the '.':11- ineering course, as they could not affmJ to rem1in at the University for a year af, er thmr scholar ,-,hips expired. Facilities should be given for such voung men com­pk'in;; tho cou1se, as it would be beneficial to tho State to have professional men of that stamp. He ,,·as one of those who regretted t'•at +h,n Government had not b~en able to :co thmr wav to take over the grammar ,_, hools and _boulder the whole responsibility conncc,cel "Ith those ·chools for tho benefit of tl ·' workin>; classes. Frequently parents c2 Loy::; who won grammar school scholar­s:;ips could not afford to sc11d their boys to a to·,·n where the--e was a grammar school and pa v for his hoard there, and he thought the Stat~ should undertake tho whole cost of r·-lucAing the --, innors of scholarships and of ko '"pine· them at a grammar school during the C'Jl'l'C'l•CV of the scholarship. Ho hoped· the claims of the Northern and \V e~tern districts in tho matter of play sheds would be recog­nised by tlw department. In his electorate 1Jaysheds were essential. He had asked for one for the ,c,chool at Balfe's Creek some con­sid0r&ble time back, but nothing had been done. He was not speaking for his own electo­r.lte alone, because all over the North and \"'est, where they were exposed to a tropical sun, the children required the protection affor,led hy a playshed. He trusted the Minis­ter would look into the matters he had mentioned durin!" the present; year. He was pleac,ecl with the wav in which the hon. ~:enl-leman had introduced his Est;mates and answere-r! criticisP1s which had been made on tlw department during the debates on the Address in Reply and the Financial State­nwnt. He again cong-ratulated the Under Secretary, and wished that he might live Ion;; to occupy the position he so creditably occupied.

[Mr. Foley.

Mr. HAMILTON: It must be gr<Itifying to the officers of the department to hear ther encomiums which had been pa·,sed on their administration. Several hon. members had spoken of the difficulty of getting classified teachers to Q'O to some of the outside schools,. and he beli~ved there was a great difficulty in that direction. One reason was that, if teachers went to schools where there was no other classified teacher, or where there was no head teacher, they had a hard job to _get tuition to prepare them for further examma­tions. He believed there was a great deal in the cry that many teachers tried to stay in the centres of J;lOPulation. Th_ey col!ld quite understand that. In the publw service of the country there was outpost duty to do, and every teacher should be prepared to do his or her portion of it. If a man or woman went out into the back country, they should not be kept there too long. When th~ Horne Secretary's Estimates were going through, the statement was made by the Home Secretary that the police, when they were on their annual leave, got a free pabS on the railway. Considering the police wcr<c fairly well paid in comparison with the school teachers, if the Government coul-1 afford to do that f0r the polic0, tho schevl k·achers in the outlying portions of the Stato should be treated similarly when theY "ere on their annual leave. (Hear, hettr !) Many of th('se school teachers could ill afford the· expense of getting to the sea-coast, and if; made a big hole in their savinp-s. They .~at a fir·.t-class tick<•t at the sec•md-class ratE•. If othrr •oublic servants could get a free pass on their holidays,_ the tc":chers in these oistricts should get It. This depart ll ·nt \Vas gro,ving, and if they went in for seeondarv end tcchninl education and a University the vote must increasB, bnt v t +he same time primary education shculd hav:; the }rst call on Parliament. Them was a great difficultv in meetinQ' the de 1ands f,,r prinJ'lr\ schools. A. den1and \vas n1ade for a. school '-at the Duches''· The ?r'l nin, -,chen he was up there, advised the people to ash, for a new sehool. Nothing could be donG on the present Estimates, but he hoped that next year provision would be made for a new school there. There was only a small tent school there now, and, with the incrcas!ng population, it was overcrowded. . He Im­pressed on the department pho necessity, when primary schools were being built in th0 North, for better verandas. They were about 6 or 7 feet wide, but that was very litt_Ie protection to the building, or to either puplls or teachers. If the veranda~ were 10 or 12 feet wide, classes could be taught on them. Th8 conditions in the West and North were such that for nine months in the year the children would be better if they were taught on the verandas instead of in tho crowded schools. The gauze netting which th~ depart­ment were putting in most of the schools was much appreciated. He desired to ask not so much for playsheds as for some shelter for the children during the dinner or play hour. There were some schools in his district which were situated on a plain, where there was no shelter from t~ees, and in cases like that there should be shelter-sheds provided. It was a different thing in a town where there was plenty of timber. Someone had made a remark about thP department teaching agri­culture, but there were other forms of educa-

Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2549

tion which the children should be t:tught, such '" geology, which would treat of our minerals in their common form.

lV1r. GRANT: Some teachers make a hobb0

of it.

~1r. H_:tMILTON: The teachers should L encouraged in this wo,;k, and he believed tho Geological Department would provide them with specimens They could have showcases in the schools with the different kinds of minerals.

~>h. LARUOl.IBE said that he had pro­mised some time ago to bring under the notice of the Committee a complaint made by the secretary of the Stanwell State School situated in the electorate of Normanby: The han. member for Normanby, through ill. ness, was unable to bring the matter before the Committee. Some months ago a re­ferendum was taken as to the advisability of removing the State school to the town side of the creek. Sanction was given, and the site decided upon by the parents, and plans were prepared, but so far nothing had been done by the department. That \ms the in­formation forwarded to him by the sec­retarv of the Stanwell State School com­mittee. He did not know whether anything had been done in the meantime, but as the Minister had not referred to it this after­noon, he concluded that nothing had been done. He wanted to urge on the Minister the urgent necessity for the erection of a playshed at Bouldercombe. The children there were subjected to intense heat and stormy weather. and it was too much to ask them to put un with this inconveni­ence, which was dangerous to their health. The Mini.ter caid the depaTtment had com­menced the planting of treFo, which would be~ yaluabl!' in r-:o1ne ,~ears' t.irne as a pro­-tection, but in the immediat'l future the would be of no benefit whatever. HP trusted that this request would be again looked into and acceeded to. He endorsed what had been said by the han. member for Rockhampton and the han. member for Fitzro;· with rogaTd to the neceP.sity for the establishment of a school in Fitzroy \Vard, Rockhampton. That wr-s a port' J~• C>f the tmrn which had gone ahead of late, and the population was in­creasing rapid!}. The railway workshops \Yf ·e bPing bnil<- there. and there "-ere also ~wharfage n:tcnsior>s being carried out in that portion of the town. A special school had been granted to Loichhardt \Vard, and a school should also be granted to Fitzroy Ward.

Mr. GRANT drew attentic'n to the fact that the henrl tPachcn of thn high schools -comirl-'n ·l that it was too much to ask th<:'m to ;out the rmpils attending those sQhools through tlwir course in h\o years, as it really meant doing three and a-half years' work in two years. fhB head teachers con­sidered that it would only lead to cramming, and :\!r. Roo was of the 'arne opinion. The mattPr had lw."l brought under the notice of the Universitv authorities who set the 1'tandard. and 'it was considered that it was too stringent and eho"uld be relaxBd.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRVCTION: It must be graLifying to the Und0r Scrretary and officials of the depart­m<,nt to know that thev were held in such 1Iigh favo 1r by the Home. There was a good deal to reply to, and he would go into .as much detail as the importance of the

questions raised justified. The hon. member for Rockhampton, who practically resumed the debate, dealt with the questwn of the time for holding examinations. As a matter of fact the department had already had that matter' und<>r consideration, and the depart­mental experts found that the time could not be conv,niently altered. In order to get the work commenced after the holidays, and to get through the amount of work_ set! it was almost inevitable that exammatwns must take place in all the educational !n­stitutions towards the end of the year. With regard to the question of salaries, raised _by different memb0rs, it would be taken notiCe of bv the department. \VIth regard to the sugge-ted improvement, at the North Rock­hampton State School, to fill up the ground, as suggested by the han. membe; for Rock­hampton would cost £1,200. 'lhe depart­ment w~re now considerino- whether "the ground could not be adequate1y drained, and the matter was under consideration. The han. members for Keppel, Rocl~hampton, and Fitzrov referred to th€ necessity for the establishme~t of a s<>hool in Fitzroy Ward, Rockhampton. That matter had not be~n lost sight of, but he was bound to Btate, m justice to other places, that there weTe a gre:1t number of other infinitely more press­ing cases before the department at P!ese:"t, and it would be idle for him to disguise from the m"moers interested that the matter might have to wait for some time. The han. member for Rockhampton raised the question of scholarships to "approved schools." There was really nothing novel in it at all· it had been in practice for the last fifteen y~aro. A resolution introduced by _an bon. member had beC'n passed by whwh ~cholarships could be taken ant at :'approve? ochook" Before the Governor m CounCil could approYe of the school, it had to _be ins >ected bv one of the <Government m­spe~tors, and if he were satisfied that the ,,,,heal was sufficientlv staffed and equipped t~ impart o2COndar: i}u:tructicn,, he '\",OUld give a certi:lcate accordingly; a;nd If he we~e not satisfied, he would not give the cectificate to the denartruent and the school would not be appro.Yed by the Governor in Council. If the certi flCate was obtained, the scholar­' hip could be taken ~:rt o.t any school, no m -tter what dcnomma+,wn It was, or \vhcthAr it was a private school or a school eotablish~d bv an institution. So long as the departmentai inspec'or was mt'sficd that the schc.ol in c1ue,tion was sufficiently st ,/fed and cqnir;;,,d ~ncl competent to te'tch secondary subj"cts, thr certifir:;'e wc:ulcl l>e granted, L'nrl t:H) Governor in Council \Yould appr~ve of i" Tlw mattor of the junior and semor c\;and.ards for the ~C'ni\ ersity wns under comid<:r::t' ion by the department, and tJ::ey -\yere Rtriving to 1nako arrangements With the "CniY- rs1ty with refSard to that. He would t "ke the opportunity to-~orrow of dis­" ~:-··,ing the matter of scholarships at greater length. The hon. member for Rockhampton m:1de reference to the que-. tion of impoTted teachers. If the hon. memher came to the department and saw J:im !1\fr. Blair) or the "Cnder Sec<: ary, full mqmry would be made into his quggestions. With re_gard to t~e q~e~­tion of married assistant~ gettmp: certam priYI­legrs that were now given to head teachers, if they granted. them to aO>astants m the educational servwe. then they would have to grant them uniformly to all the maTried men in the State service. They could not sino-le out individuals in one dApartment and tre~t them on a differential basis to members similarly situated in the S8.l·vicc, the only

Han. J. W. Blair.]

2550 M~ners' Homestead Leases [ASSEMBLY.] Act Amendment Bill.

difference being that they were working in a. different department. With regard to marriei teachers, rent was reckoned as part of the emoluments they received. With re­gard to the question of passing examinations b,Y instalments, he was glad that that ques­twn had been raiSfd, because a wider svstem of option was proposed under the ne" "regu­lations, so that it would be possible for teachers who were not musically inclined not to take up music at all.

Mr. FoLEY: Are you doing away with it altogether?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STHUCTIO?--;: No. Those who liked it could take it up, but if a teacher did not like it, he would not be compelled to take it up. This conce<,ion applied to only the Class II. examination. The hon. member for MuriJla rofeTred to the question of married assistant teachers and special a!lm1 ancos in remote places. He had already dealt "ith that. Special allowances were granted according to locality. \Vith regard to the cancellation of transfers, there was no arbitrary rule in the department in that matter. Care "as taken to see that the1:e were no uases of hardship, such as transferrmg a son or daughter who was keeping a widowed mother. In ordinary cir­cumstances tr11nsfers were only made after due consideration. \Vith regard to teachers of small schools, it was intended, under the new sy~tem, to make provision for their training. With regard to medi_cal and dental inspection,

centres m the country would be [10.30 p.m.] selected, so that the inspector:;<

could Yisit them, and the country places would get the benefit of their service". He luro-ely agreed that thl countn· should more materially benefit by this inspection than the town, where they had facilities which the country had not in some cases. \Vith re­gard to the subject raised b:- the hon. mem­ber for J\Iar~noa, that was largely a question of the sufficwnc: of funds.

At 10.30 p.m .. The CHAIR:\IAN said: Under Standing

Order No. 306, I must now leave the chair and ma1<e my report to th" House.

Tht· House resumed. Tho CHAIRMAN re­ported pro:gress, and the Committee obtained leave to s1t aha1n to~morrow.

G01.'ERKMENT LOAN DILL. REH'RYED FRO:! CocNCIL.

The SPE.\ KER announced the receipt of a. m:ssage from the Qouncll returning this Bill withoPt uneudment.

r!IINERS' HOMESTEAD LEASES ACT Ali'E:'m~,f.BNT BILL.

SECOND READING.

The SECR!.TAHY .?COR MINES 'Hon. J. G. Appel, All• t): In rising to niove tL· Order stan-r~i1 g in 1nv name, J desire fo sav that thi· Bill he: tee'n Tend'>rcd !1(ece;o--,lry by tho fvllowing circubstanccs :-The Bill "as prepared ln.-.t r .ession. and •·· hcJC laid on the h'• Ie of thrc H<nsc, r· .mtained the same defini­tion of '' qu;:;lified pFrson" that now is carr t;1.incd t~1trei11. That definition 1\ .1s in clauE~; 3, subd:tu·e (<Il •. end v.as as folio v;:~-

' If an alir ·, hac oht<tinPd in the pr< 3· cril:od manner a certifir cte that he is able to read and write from diet .:':ion words in such languag.J as the Minishw may direct."

At this time, the necessity for Jirectly con·

[Hon. J. W. Blatt.

serving the rights of certain aliens with wl~ose­countries reciprocal treaty arean9ements had been made by the Imperial autnoritics, and which bound this State. Jwd not been brourrht very prominently under the notic' _of the· Government, and v.'O '"'ere under the unprcs­sion that the usual dictation test would be sufficient. The Bill, as then draited, was transmitted to His Excellency the GoYernor, and after the House rose. a communic"'tion v.·as receiYed from the Secretary of State drawing attention to the inadequate provi­sions of the proposed Bill. This was sent by the Governor to the pToper authority, but, owing to an oversight, the information was not bTought under the notice of the Mines Department, and the department w .ts con­sequently not aware of the communication on the subject. The Bill was introduced ,. ithout the required amendment being- in­s.-rted in it, and, unfortunately, the omission w~s no' noticed till after the Governor had 1:iven his assent theTeto. It is therefore essential that a small amending Bill should become Ia w this session, otherwise it is feared that the Bill will be disallowed by the Im­perial authorities. The Bill itself is very short, consisting of three clauscq. The first gives the short title and contains the con· stmction of the Act. The two other clauses contain the a.mendments, ono being an anH."nd­ment to follow clause 40 of the Act. in which power was given to make regulations. It is simply an addition to the powers already con­tained in the Act to nrovidc that-

" In such Tegulations pTovi,ion shall be made for the examination and grant· ing to aliens certificates of ability to rc .1d and write irom dictation words in the lan;ruage direct-ed by the :Minister, and for the exemption £Tom such dictation test of any person or classes of persnns \vhonl from anv reason it is not con­sidered necessarY to examine."

'l'hen, after section 40 of the ~\ct, it is proposed that tho following new clause be added:-

" Nothin:; herein contained shall pre­judice the rights of an, of the subjects of a foreil'n power between which and the T'nited Kingdom of Grea·· Britain and Ire! ,nd there is now sv.bsistin:,;, OT shall her"after subc.ist, any treaty of le>m":orce when;by reciprocal civil rights of t.he '.ubjects of such treat:. powers are reserved, grankcl, or dcclaied, and to whi::h treat:· the Staj'> of Queensland has accedl;d or shall hue after accede."

This ha•; b'?en i.'ecogni:..,ed in other enact­l.lents which have been acco:>tcd by this Hc•U.'.~. and it is a mere forma i .uatter. "\s Srcrriary for M.inb, I regret that it was omitted fron: tin original Bill.

1\fr. THEODORE: \V~ts th 011IISSIOn pointed ont by th0 Imperial authoritic·' 1

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Yes. 'l'he PRE3IIER: By cable.

Tho SECRETARY FOR MINES: A couple l1f dc,ys after His Excellency had given hi.- assent it was pointed ont by the Secretary of State that the amendment, the nee· · eitv for which had been pointed out, had not been made, and it therefore became nccPsc ary, at the 'Cl'' earlie•.t opportunity this •·c .sion, to lay the mattcT before the Hou•c, with the object of rectifying the omission. I beg to move the second reading of the Bill.

Miners' Homestead Leases [6 NovEMBER.] Act Amendment Bill. 2551

Mr. THEODORE: I asked the Secretary for Mines if the omission was pointed out by the Helme authoritic s since assent had been given by the Governor, and he asserted that that was so. Of cour•e, I accept his r tai<·ment, but it seems strange to me that when early in the session we made provision for the inclusion of a dictation teFt in another Act no such objection was taken by the Imperial authorities. \Vhen ·we pas.•-cd the Sug:n Cultivation Act, which received a.;Fcnt on the 25th July, a dictation test was provided for, but them was no clause as we have here, which I think will be unique on the Queensland statute-book-if it passes -as prc;erving treaty rights.

The PREMIER: An exactly similar pro­vision is ::1lready in the Leases to Aliens Act.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : There is a treaty with the Kingdom of Italy.

Mr. THEODORE : I think it is generally admitted that it will affect the rights under treaties entered into with Asiatic nations. That is the trouble. I have read the second subclause carefully, and it seems to me that we are making .a special e'l:emption in rela­tion to Japanese, to put it bluntly. And we may as well come straight to the point in such a thing as this, and say that no native of China, and so on, enumerating the people of the coun&ries whom we do not desire to hold miners' homestead leases, but specifically exempting J ap:1!lese. 'This seems to be the effect of this amending Bill. It seems to me that if tlw treaty rights of the J ap:'.nese are preserved by this Bill, the rights of Japanese under a treaty entered Into by them .,, ith the Imperial Government, whi< h Queensland has acceded to apparently -I do not know whether we have, but I think it must be :0-the Japanese are ccpparently entitled to take up miners' hOine­stead leases under the Bill we passed, and the \:hole object of tho dictation teEt is b8it,;( defect! eel by lhe Bill. I know that "\vhen, Fon1o ~ears ago, the Parlia1nent of Quocmland iuserted in some · previous nt a:-;ure .: provicion restrinting the rights of Asio.~tlcs) these objections \Vcre tak,·n to it b .. tho Imperial authoritic3 on th ·~~- g"·ound that treatiu had bePn entPred into by them \Yith smne ..~:\siatic nations. It' "\Yas because of tLe protest thd was then na<h that, in­ctead of going direct to the point, as '"' did ia the pr;ncipal l'Iining )u. of 1898, in v:hi .h '' ,J stated that no native o2 1:\sia, Africa, or Polyn .. ia shoulcl be entitled to­cerhin right under that _i.ct, we adopted a Jifferrnt r;,'Jth,;d in order to smooth aw,,y :•ny drli"acy of feeliw; ~,hich mi•;ht ~XiJt. That m< ''10d '· ae :1dor,ted b .. che Common­" ';.lth Parliament in the Aliens Re·,triction Act, \:b'rh imposed a dictation test, and that tesb was unc~2r,t,ood to hav3 tho FEnno effect. ac if we had ' )ecifically uid that those rights should r::.ot be enjoyed 1JY Asi:.tbL. Now it p~, n•s it will not have the same effect. 'l'he dictation test will c ·cclucle C~inese>, whc,e Go· ~rrrment have no tre,ty rtght•'; but it will not exclude tlw J apa,,e,e or other Asiatics whose Governments haye rights under treatie·, w'th tho Imperial GoYern· nH ~1t. Tha-<; is nnfortunatf', be,_auso it nlaces J ap Jll8~G Oll • '~a...;t]y the "•alne footillg aS

AustralianF and peorJle of EuroJJean nations. I know that f·· L 1perial authoritieo ha.vc the right. to direct us in these matkrs, but I do not know whether the State of Queens· lam, should accede to a treatv which takes away from us a rig,ht that we· have. I take

it that a treaty such as that ~ntered into by tlw Imperial Government m 1905 pre­serves to tho J a 1Janes.c reciprocal rights.

:Mr. KmwA"". C\m Britishers hold land in Japan?

The SECRETARY FOR ;yiiKES: No, they oon· not; and according to our law aliens have to be naturalise.J before the:. can hold !.and in Queensland.

l'.Ir. THEODORE: vl"c do not object. so much to the devious method of accomplish· ing what we desire, ~ut if this Bill exempts Japanese from the dwtatton test and places them on the same footing as Australians and people of European nations with rega~-d to the holding of le<cses under the l\1:merS" Homesteads Leases Act, we should do some­thing to prevent it, as. that will be most objectionable to white mmers. However, we can discuss the matter later on.

Mr. HAMILTON: It seems remarkable that the home authoritif·S should be so par­ticular at the present juncture in _having some provision introduced such as IS con­tained in this Bill. When the Port Norman­ton to Cloncurry Railway Act was passed, aliens were excluded from .v•:orkm!i on that lin£, .and 'there 1'<18 no pronswn wtth ~eg':rd to a dictation test in it; yet no obJectiOn v,as taken to the1t Act by the Imperial authoriti0s. 'The first time that objection was taken by the Imperial authorities w.":~ when \VC pas,,d t11'e money for the D.arriJl or some other central mill in the North, and .assent to that meucure was refused,

The RECHETA'<Y FOR :MIXES : That was the first time after tho treaty wa~ mad<'> with Japon.

Mr. HAMILTON: The point was not raised when the Port Normanton to Cion­currY RailY. av ~4...ct ,,~as passed.

The SECRLr:\RY FOR RAILWAYS: The Sugar Works Act of 1902 waq not assented to for the rEoason that it had not this clause in it.

Mr. HA::YliLTO?\: That A<'t was not ac,e!lted to becaus ; the Government took umbrag" at an ac,lendment whirh Mr. Givens got inserted, and the +hen Attorney-General, Sir Arthur Rutledge, recommendeJ the Go­V<'rnor not to assonr to it.

Th'" PRECIIER: Ko; it was disallow-ed in Englat.cl

'Jr. H"~:\HLTON: It was disallowed on the recommendation of Sir Arthur Rutledge. I have my own opinion ab mt thi~ treaty l~tuinec;;s. \Ve ~,..lo not .g'~t the s~n1e r1ghts .1n Japan as the JapanE:>G get 1n ... \.ust~<1ha. On! v in ~ertain tred' ports can a foretgner or alien carr" on bus'inees in Japan, but the Japan<'"' c:aicil the right to carry on busi~ess in any part of the Commonwealth. We should not rriYe to those people any more ricrh+o; th;e;.n bt~Jev give us in their country. It,:.·o do "ot ;:et" ciYil righ~d in their country, I do nm- se'c \Yhy they should have: civil rights in ~-H>'m,hnd.

The SECRETARY FOR :MINES : That i, exactly what tho chuse J>rOYide ' ..

::VL. HA~H'LTOX: You do not ecen get a dictation tc~t in Japan.

Question-That the Bill be now read ·&

second time-put ancl passed. The con;mittal of the Bill was made an

Ord•·r of the Day for to-morrow. The Houw adjourned at eleven minutes to

11 o'clock.

JJ1r. Hamilton.]