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Interview with Katherine Hinton

June 28, 1993 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South Enfield (N.C.) Interviewer: Kara Miles ID: btvnc04004 Interview Number: 388

SUGGESTED CITATION

Interview with Katherine Hinton (btvnc04004), interviewed by Kara Miles, Enfield (N.C.), June 28, 1993, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University (1993-1995)  

COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture

at the David M. Rubenstein Rare Book & Manuscript Library

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Catherine Hinton: In Edgecombe.

Kara Miles: In Edgecombe? What part?

CH: Well I don't know what part. All I know I would say

between Leggett and Tarboro.

KM: What did your parents do?

CH: Well they were farmers.

KM: What did they farm?

CH: I'm going to tell you. So many places. I'd say well

they farmed Robert Pittman's farm.

KM: That's the one they farmed at for the longest you think?

You said they farmed lots of places?

CH: Yeah but I'm talking about what I can remember.

KM: So you remember being on Robert Pittman's farm?

CH: Yeah.

KM: Was Robert Pittman black or white?

CH: He was a white man.

KM: What do you remember about him?

CH: I just remember he was a nice person. He was alright.

Anyway he would help you. What I mean you know is like in those

days and times you needed it. Of course you need help now. But

along then you needed help. What I mean by that such as what he

had he shared with the blacks. You know what I mean such as stuff

like help you with food supplies and stuff like that. That's all

I know about that.

KM: Okay so you said he would help you out when you all

needed food he would give you food?

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CH: And farm, you know just like you farm at the end of the

year. You know, I don't reckon you might remember such as share

cropping.

KM: No, I don't know so tell me about it.

CH: That's what they called it, share cropping. You had a

little, tend so many acres, like me and Tom, settle up. Sometimes

you made some money, sometimes you didn't. That's all I can say

about that.

KM: So Mr. Pittman would give you the equipment, the tools

and the seed?

CH: Yes just the farming things. Yeah. You done the work

and furnished things. Like priming and doing like that you know.

You had the labor and he furnished the place.

KM: Then he would settle up at the end of the year?

CH: Sometimes you made some money, sometimes you didn't.

KM: Do you think that Mr. Pittman was fair to your family

with settling up?

CH: Well, I'll say it this way, in some ways yes and some

ways no. Some ways I say yes and in some ways no. Because you

know how people, needy folks, I call it needy, ( ) today. So it

wasn't that bad, not every year. We had some good years and some

bad years. Sometimes it was okay and sometimes it won't. First

words said well, you done used up everything. (Laughter) That's

all I know about that.

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KM: So sometimes he would say that you used up everything?

CH: All I know, I'm talking about what they would come home

and tell because I was a child. I don't know how they arranged

their business but I know what they would say. ( ) well you

fell in the hole this time. You didn't come out. But still there

was a way there because it was still - I ( ). You know you

can still go ahead on at the next farm. Sometimes you done ( )

one off to the other farm before you even planted. So sometimes

that still didn't leave you nothing. It just was a take care

thing I think.

KM: Did you all move while you were growing up or did you

stay on Mr. Pittman's farm the whole time you were growing up?

CH: When I found myself I was grown there, grown on Mr.

Pittman's farm. So that won't much ( ).

KM: What do you remember farming on Mr. Pittman's farm?

CH: Peanuts, cotton, corn and had some tobacco.

KM: Did you like farming?

CH: Well I did. Yeah I liked the farm. Sure did.

KM: What did you like about it?

CH: Well I liked some parts of it. You could go when you

want to. You'd go to work at seven o'clock in the morning and

well you stopped, if you wanted to stop before twelve you could do

that too. Especially if you were in your own little part, what

they ( ) yours. Won't nothing too much important about

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it though.

KM: What didn't you like about farming?

CH: I don't know, I just liked the farm. The most important

thing, I just really don't hardly know.

KM: When you got out on your own, when you got grown, did

you and your husband farm too?

CH: Yeah. Yes we did. Naw, we didn't. No, we didn't. My

husband worked during the day. You know, day work. So I had

children and I stayed home. Sometimes when they got old enough I

would work a little.

KM: You'd do day work too?

CH: Yeah, I would work along with him, what I mean.

KM: So he would go...

CH: To work.

KM: He would work at different farms?

CH: No.

KM: What do you mean?

CH: Just one farm.

KM: I don't understand. What does day work mean?

CH: Day work means just like you have to get up at seven

o'clock in the morning and if you, I say, plow. You go out there

and hook up your horses, your mules and plow and go ahead to work

until twelve o'clock. The men folks did. The lady folks stopped

at eleven. And it was plowing, priming tobacco or whatever,

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chopping, whatever.

KM: So he would work from seven to twelve and then you'd

take lunch or supper and then go back?

CH: I call it dinner. You'd eat dinner and after dinner

when the bell rang about one o'clock you went back to work.

KM: And how long would you work?

CH: We'd work til six to seven.

KM: And the difference between day work and what you had

growing up was that growing up you worked on your own time, you

didn't have to be there at seven and then work til seven? Is that

what you mean?

CH: Well you always worked just like when we were working on

the farm. Seven o'clock was the time when ladies went to work.

At seven. Men folks were out there earlier. I don't how early

but I know the lady folks went at seven and stopped at eleven.

Okay stopped at eleven and stopped at six. Eleven for dinner and

six was all they worked and they'd go home. See at eleven you'd

go home and prepare your dinner.

KM: So did you and your husband live on the land where you

worked?

CH: Robert Pittman's land.

KM: So when you were growing you were working Robert

Pittman's land too, you and your husband?

CH: Part of the time, yeah.

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KM: How many people worked on that farm?

CH: I don't know.

KM: Was it a lot?

CH: Well it was a right big farm. About two or three

families.

KM: So two or three families lived on Robert Pittman's farm?

CH: Un-huh.

KM: Were you friends with those people.

CH: Yeah. Everybody was friendly like along then. But you

couldn't hardly do it now. Yeah. Everybody was friendly.

KM: Did you all help each other out?

CH: No because they were working for the same man I was and

when I went to work they went to work. Such as anything you could

do to help each other you did that, if there was anything you

could do.

KM: Did you ever do any public work?

CH: No more than help farm.

KM: So when you and your husband were farming, would you

still call that share cropping that you were doing?

CH: Sure it would be share cropping if you didn't have your

own share crop with, I call it the landlord, the owner of the

land.

KM: So he furnished you and your husband then you all...

CH: When you go out there working I say by the day like that

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you furnish your own self. You had your grocery stuff to get when

he paid that little money. That wouldn't be too much but you had

to buy your own groceries then.

KM: So he would pay you what once a week? When would you

get paid?

CH: Each week.

KM: Where did you use to go to get your groceries?

CH: Any store. It didn't make no difference if you got it

at any store. I reckon I would say down to Leggett's I reckon.

You'd buy it anywhere. But I think the biggest he traded with

that carried groceries was at Leggett's down there.

KM: Where was the Leggett's at?

CH: Down there going on to Tarboro.

KM: How did you use to get to Leggett's?

CH: There were some old piece of cars. Won't old cars, old

piece of wagons. He'd get the groceries. He got there somehow,

car or truck or something.

KM: How did your family get their groceries when you were

growing up?

CH: On the wagon. They would go from there to Tarboro town

on a wagon and get groceries. That what they called it,

groceries. Along then, way back then we got food. Got some food

but they called it groceries. We got food on the wagon, drove the

wagon.

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KM: I bet that took a long time.

CH: Well, you could go and come in I say well, you'd go soon

that morning and you got back somewhere around one or two o'clock.

KM: Do you remember when you had your first car?

CH: No I sure don't.

KM: I want to go back to when you were growing up. Do you

remember your house? Can you tell me what your house looked like?

CH: It looked like an old house. (Laughter)

KM: How many rooms?

CH: There were four or five. It won't nothing but looked

like an old house, like an old barn. I would say, what they use

now. It had four or five rooms I believe. Five. It looked like

nothing. I'll tell you it didn't.

KM: How many of you lived there?

CH: I don't know how many it was. I just tell you the

truth. It was a long time.

KM: So you had lots of brothers and sisters?

CH: I had four brothers. And let me see how many sisters.

Seven girls and four boys. Let me see if I can get this thing

right. Had seven sisters and four brothers.

KM: Were you all living in that house at the same time or

were some of them older and had left?

CH: Some, oh good God, ( ).

KM: How old were you when you left home?

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CH: I was about twenty ( ).

KM: That's when you got married?

CH: Un-huh.

KM: How did you meet your husband?

CH: Well, by going to churches and places. I met him at

church.

KM: Did you used to go to church a lot?

CH: Yes I did. I sure did. Was brought up in church.

Along then the pastor didn't play with you long. You went to

Sunday School and church.

KM: What church did you go to?

CH: Bethelem.

KM: Is that a Baptist church?

CH: Un-huh. Bethlehem Baptist Church.

KM: How often were services?

CH: Well along then, you're talking about once a month but

the Sunday School every Sunday morning.

KM: What did you do on the Sundays that your church didn't

meet?

CH: If church didn't meet I stayed home. I stayed home

because along then you won't running up and down the road like

they do now.

KM: But you went to Sunday School every Sunday?

CH: Yeah I went every Sunday if the rain didn't knock us

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out. I had to walk but I went, we went.

KM: Why did church meet only once a month?

CH: I don't know. Along then it didn't meet but once a

month. We had some activities like some programs or something out

there. But the regular preaching day was on the fourth Sunday and

it still is. Fourth Sunday is preaching day at Bethelem. Sure

is.

KM: What other kinds of programs were there?

CH: Such as other people coming in. Maybe somebody singing

or something like that. Programs, that's what they called them.

KM: So that might happen on a Sunday when there wasn't any

preaching?

CH: Right. It was most service out there but real, back

then. Back then it won't but one Sunday to the month. That was

on the fourth Sunday. It's still the fourth Sunday.

KM: Was there anything happening at the church the rest of

the week?

CH: Un-uh. We'd have revival meeting once a year. Every

August was revival week.

KM: What was revival week like?

CH: Good time. Singing, praying, having a good time.

KM: Can you tell me about baptism? What was baptism like?

CH: It was like good along then because you went to the

river. You didn't have no pool in the church or nothing. So you

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had to go down on the riverbank somewhere. I call it a riverbank.

That's what they called it. It won't nothing like no pool in

church like they do now. We've got a pool in church now. You had

to go down where the water was along then.

KM: Do you remember the name of that river?

CH: No. All I know it was on a bank, down in the woods on a

bank. What they called it I don't know.

KM: Was there a certain age around that a child should...?

CH: Naw. You could get baptized if you wanted to if you was

five years old. If your parents trusted you if you wanted to be

baptized that was okay. That was if your parents trusted you.

But I'd say from eight on up. But if you were smaller and if your

parents trusted you they baptized you.

KM: How old were you?

CH: I was twelve or thirteen when I came through.

KM: When you were ready to be baptized, do you stand up in

church on Sunday and say that you present yourself to the church?

CH: No you didn't do that.

KM: How did that work?

CH: Like if you wanted to be baptized and all you didn't do

that jump and do that on Sunday. You got baptized and they

brought you back and you took the right hand of fellowship and

that was it.

KM: Did you have to wear a special color dress or anything

12

to be baptized?

CH: No. I wore a white gown. I wore a gown and a towel on

your head. Girdle around your waist, a towel.

KM: Did all the girls, they would wear towels on their head?

CH: Everybody that was baptized had on white gowns and

towels.

KM: Did boys do that too, wear towels?

CH: No the boys didn't cover up their head. Ladies did.

KM: Do you know why that is? Why were the ladies supposed

to cover their head?

CH: Well, it's the way that - no I don't know why but you

did it. You wore white towels on your head. You wore a girdle

around your waist and a white gown. Why, I don't know the reason.

KM: Were baptisms big events? Would a lot of people come

out to them?

CH: Yeah, a lot of people because somebody went to church

and to baptisms and things along then. It's all inside the church

now and nobody don't hardly come. Everybody's rushing but they

ain't rushing to the right place. That's right. Everybody's

running now, everybody. You hear them say but I had - well, I

reckon you do got a job, I know you have to work, I know that.

And a lot of them, I stayed home and done my laundry. I done this

and I done that. They ought to be to the church. And still do

your laundry. You can do more than one thing if you know how to

13

do it. How come you didn't go to church. I had to do my laundry.

I had to do such and such a thing. They don't say they have to

go to church.

KM: Did both your mother and father go to church?

CH: They used to when they were living.

KM: Do you remember homecomings at church?

CH: Yeah, every year now. They used to didn't be one years

ago.

KM: You didn't use to have homecomings?

CH: Un-uh.

KM: Do you remember when they started?

CH: I sure don't. I'll be fair, I don't. But I know they

have it every year now. I think it's in July, July or August.

August. Homecoming every year in August.

KM: Do you remember your grandparents? Did you know your

grandparents?

CH: No I didn't.

KM: Do know anything about your parents like before they had

you all? Were they both from this area?

CH: All they know they were from this area. I've been in

Edgecombe all my life and down around back there by Leggett's.

You don't know where Leggett's is do you?

KM: When you were growing up, what white people did you see?

CH: Well, I really as I told you on the Pittman farm, this

14

man's wife was named Lilly, Lilly Pittman. She was a nice lady.

Who else? A lady named Mattie Anderson. She was a nice person.

KM: Who was she?

CH: I don't know. All I know she was a Mattie Anderson.

She was a right nice person to work black people.

KM: Were there any whites who weren't so nice to black

people?

CH: Well you know to tell it like it is, some of them they

ain't nice now to black people.

KM: I know.

CH: Alright then.

KM: But I want to know about back then.

CH: You want me to tell you something and tell you the

truth?

KM: Tell me the truth.

CH: It's the same right now as it was back then because they

always, I don't know why, but it's always that the white person

kind of roots the black on over someway or somehow. They see you

prospering and going ahead, well really they don't like that. But

sometimes you get in a situation, I say like ya'll girls and

things going to school like that, they cooperate and you know, and

you all go on and be good citizens and things. But they don't

care that much about no black body, like my black body.

(Laughter) I reckon this first page you think everything or

15

something but they don't care much about us. I have worked for

people. I've done a whole lot of working out for people. I say

well, tending to the children, cleaning up the house. Well, see

what I'm saying? Well, they treated me nice and all of that.

They were nice to me. But I mean raising up my children, they

were nice. But somewhere along the line they got their claw in

the black person. But I don't pay that any attention because

everybody is striving for self now. It ain't like it used to be.

You couldn't get nothing without you go to them. You didn't.

You didn't get nothing ( ). If you didn't have nothing, you

had to look to somebody. They don't care nothing about it right

now. Me I don't reckon because I always would talk. I did. I

would tell how I feel about it. If they asked me I'd tell them.

And then sometimes they didn't ask me. I said well, Catherine why

come such and such a thing - I said well you had it and I didn't

and I couldn't and you could. ( ) just laugh and I'd go ahead

on. But I still had told them. But I like some of them, I do and

I can get along with them. I did. I worked along with them.

KM: Tell me about the ones you didn't get along with.

CH: I didn't bother up with them to start with. Didn't mess

with them in the first place. But them that I worked for I could

get along with.

KM: So the ones you worked with, you felt that they always

treated you okay?

16

CH: Yeah I can say well, fair, half way ( ).

KM: Were there any whites that you felt ever tried to

mistreat you or weren't nice to you?

CH: Well, not really. No, not really.

KM: But you were just telling me about it being the same way

now as it was then but they never mistreated you personally but

you always knew that they had it in them.

CH: I know. You know when you even talking with a person

you can probably tell what's in them. They may don't come out

with it but it's in there, especially about black folks like me.

I don't mean no harm, just telling you the truth. ( )

(Laughter) But now since things have got - the blacks can do

about good as the other, they ain't quite like that now. Nope!

They ain't quite like that now. Because you're sitting here

giving this interview. Okay. You can do that just as good as the

white woman can. You understand me? But you get a little further

ahead they are prejudice against the black people. I ain't going

to say nothing else. (Laughter) But they is. See I know that.

( ) such and such a one, she looks so nice. I said thank

God for her. I said because she tried to get somewhere. I said

they are in college and all of that. I've got two grand girls in

college. Well, you know I'm very proud of that. I sure is.

Because in my day I didn't get much education. I didn't get much.

You couldn't get much. You had to stay home and work. And all

17

of that and you had to do it. But they got that scholarship.

Both of them won one. And one ( ) is two years and one made

one year, this year. So I'm very proud of that. Yeah, they got

that scholarship. I told them don't you chuck it under foot, you

try to do something with it. Don't you chuck it under foot.

KM: That's wonderful. Well let's talk about your education

a little bit. How far did you go?

CH: Well I didn't go far. I think about the seventh grade

is as high as I got.

KM: And then you had to go to work? Was another school to

go to? Was there a high school?

CH: Yeah it was a high school but see not everybody was able

to go to the high school. I won't able to go no further than the

seventh grade. That's as far as I got.

KM: Why weren't you able to go any further?

CH: Because it takes money now and it took money then and

they didn't have it. So I had to knock off where I could, where I

did. I got married and had my family.

KM: Did you like school when you were going?

CH: Yeah I loved it. The teacher would pick on me all the

time. (Laughter)

KM: What would she do?

CH: I didn't do nothing. She just said I was naughty.

(Laughter) I didn't do nothing.

18

KM: What were you doing that was naughty?

CH: Oh, well sometimes, you know. You ball up a little

piece of paper and you chunk it like that and walk by your friend

and you pinch them or do something or another naughty. She said I

know that's Catherine. I know that's who it is. (Laughter) I

was naughty.

KM: Did you used to get punished in school for being

naughty.

CH: Sometimes when I, you know, done too much she did. But

if I just chunked a piece of paper ( ) nothing like that.

My teacher said, somebody said, Catherine! She'd say Catherine,

you'd better sit down over there! What are you doing? I'd say

Miss Austin, I wasn't standing up. But I wouldn't tell her I

chunked that ball. I didn't tell her I chunked that ball of

paper. It was just to be doing something.

KM: What did she do to punish you?

CH: Sometimes she wouldn't let me have some spelling or

something like that. Well if I just chunked a ball of paper she

didn't bother me.

KM: What did you used to do to bad enough to be punished?

(Laughter) What kind of really bad things did you do that she'd

punish you for?

CH: I didn't do nothing too bad. I just did little tricky

things like, you know, pinching them or something like that. I

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didn't do too bad.

KM: What did you like best about school?

CH: Well I liked just to be out with the people, with the

children. I loved to play ball. We used to play ball at recess.

We'd play ball. Then when we didn't play ball we didn't do

nothing but sit out there on the thing and talk with one another.

KM: What school did you go to?

CH: They called it Dixon. It was the old Dixon B. School.

It was the first school I went to.

KM: How many rooms was that school?

CH: It was three - let me see - because it was two teachers.

Two rooms and I called it the kitchen.

KM: So there was a kitchen?

CH: Yeah, you know where they had a stove in there where you

warm food at lunch. You'd warm your lunch. Anything you had

you'd warm it. Just like before dinner, the girls would go in and

warm the lunch that they had for the warm lunch that week. Go in

and warm your lunch. That was it.

KM: You said the girls would go. The boys didn't warm their

lunch?

CH: No, the girls warmed all the lunch. When twelve o'clock

come, you know, you'd get your lunch and ate it.

KM: What did you think about that, that the girls had to

warm everybody's lunch?

20

CH: Well I thought it was fair. I don't think the boys had

no business in there. They didn't. They didn't because they were

mischievous too you know.

KM: Who were the teachers? Do you remember your teachers

names?

CH: I had a teacher named Miss Austin. Let me see, one was

named Miss Austin and I had one named Miss Reed. Austin and Reed,

them was the onliest two teachers was out there. Miss Austin, she

teached the higher grade and Miss Reed teached the lower grade.

KM: Did you like your teachers?

CH: Un-uh. I was crazy about Miss Austin. Nice person.

KM: Why were you so crazy about her?

CH: I just liked her attitude. What I mean, she was, I just

liked it, just liked her attitude. I just liked the way she'd

deal with children.

KM: You were talking about going to warm the lunch. What

would ya'll have for lunch?

CH: Well, anything we could get. (Laughter) Along then

they didn't have a whole lot of this and a whole lot of that.

Sometimes the children didn't have nothing but something like a

slice of ham. Didn't have no light bread. Had biscuits. Stuff

like that. Egg, sausage. Even some of them had some chicken

sometimes. When you say you were going to eat dinner, said

chicken would be nice for dinner.

21

KM: Did your teachers play favorites? Were there some

students that you could tell that they liked better than others?

CH: Yeah. Sure did.

KM: Why do you think that was?

CH: Because some children would go and tell the teacher

everything. If they're out here today everywhere telling

everything they know on somebody or tell something they see,

something or another like that. You could watch that. They

always take them for the pets. Didn't take me for no pet because

I didn't do that. I didn't tote news. Tote news is a bad thing.

KM: How about children who were lighter skinned? I know

sometimes people have told me about that people with light skin

got treated better than people with darker skin. Do you remember

that happening?

CH: No that didn't happen in our school. Nothing but the

ones that tote the news. If they was black as tar she loved them.

KM: Did you learn any black history in school?

CH: Naw. You didn't know nothing like that. Sure didn't.

KM: Did any of your brothers and sisters go to high school?

CH: No they didn't. I had one sister who was going to high

school in Rocky Mount one time. She didn't go that long. That's

just the way it went.

KM: So if she went to high school in Rocky Mount she had to,

did she stay with some other family?

22

CH: It was in Booker T. Washington's day and they could stay

on the campus until I don't know what happened. I can't really

tell.

KM: Was this school still in operation when...?

CH: Well, this here is Brick's community, this here thing

has been here forever, years and years and years. It really has.

I don't live in this Brick's community but I do come here. But

this here has been here.

KM: So did you know about the school when you were growing

up?

CH: I didn't know nothing about no Brick's. Sure didn't. I

didn't know nothing about it.

KM: When you were going to school, do you know how long,

like how many months you went to school? What month did you start

school in the year?

CH: It started in the Fall. Let me see, when did school

open up. I don't know. I think we started in September. You

know that's a nine month school.

KM: So you went to school nine months?

CH: I think it was nine months. You started in September.

(End of Tape 1-Side A)

Tape 1 - Side B

KM: You had to stay out and help on the farm?

CH: Had to stay out some days.

23

KM: Like how many days?

CH: Well if you went to school Monday and Tuesday and

Wednesday well you had to stay out Thursday and Friday. You had

to stay out at least two days.

KM: So pretty much every week you had to stay out two days?

CH: Un-huh.

KM: Would you and your brothers and sisters rotate? Would

like some days some of you would go?

CH: No they'd stop all of us the same day.

KM: Did pretty much all the kids at your school have to do

that?

CH: Yes, some of them had to work. Some didn't.

KM: Some didn't?

CH: Everybody you know didn't have to keep their children

out of school.

KM: So some of them were better off than your family?

CH: Right.

KM: Were there any kids there whose parents owned their own

land?

CH: Not as I can recall.

KM: Do you remember when you were growing up your parents,

your mother or your father, ever teaching you or letting you know

how you should act or talk about white people?

CH: No. They always said, you know what I mean, they always

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say you know how to talk to people, you know how to honor people

and don't say anything, you know, ( ). If anything come up,

any problem or anything, it wouldn't be right. They would settle

that. Don't you say this and don't you say the wrong thing to

them. Don't you say nothing because you probably would say the

wrong thing.

KM: So they taught you to just kind of stay out of their

way?

CH: Right.

KM: How about when you had your children? What did you

teach them?

CH: Well, I'd teach them how to be nice and how to treat

everybody. Let's treat everybody right. I said if you treat

everybody right you won't miss nobody and if ain't nobody

bothering you, don't you bother people. Treat everybody right. I

say and if that's the case, you treat everybody right, somebody

will treat you right. Don't you go about what somebody else do to

somebody else. You put your mouth in it, you just look out for

yourself and do as I tell you to do and let the other fellow

alone.

KM: So you taught your children a little different than your

parents had told you.

CH: Right. Yeah, just don't bother people and then they

bother you, that's a different story. That's the way it is.

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KM: What should you do if they bothered you?

CH: Well I was grown enough to take up for myself and in the

right way regardless of what. You just be honest with a person

and just tell them. I have asked why would you say such and such

a thing or why would you do this. Well they couldn't give me no

answer because they had no reason. That's right. I'll tell you

about myself. I don't want to believe in picking and doing at

people. I ( ) when they get the wrong attitude with you, you

give it back to them. That's right. I don't want to be picked

at. Picking causes a whole lot of mess.

KM: So were there ever any white people who picked at you

and you picked back?

CH: Well, no. Sometimes we have talked and I'd tell them.

I didn't talk back but I just told them the way I felt about it.

I just told them how I felt. Well, you got one way to believe and

one way it's your ( ) but I don't believe that way.

KM: Do you remember any specific times? Do you remember any

examples of that?

CH: Naw. Just sometimes things just run up on you

unexpected. Just like if you're working for a person sometimes

when the biggest flaw come up you are unexpected. Then you tell

them like you feel about it. Yeah, I do. I do that right now.

KM: So when you were working in white people's homes, this

was after your children had gotten a little older?

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CH: Un-huh. They got - I'd say go on ( ). See, I

worked out on the farm first. As the days grew older, as I grew

older, that's when I quit. Then I worked in the house.

KM: How did you like working in the house as opposed to

working on the farm?

CH: I liked in the house the best because you won't in the

sunshine. (Laughter) Sure won't. What I mean, you know you

ain't no ( ) or nothing. You do what you're supposed to do

and ( ).

KM: When you worked in the house did you work in town or did

you work...?

CH: In the country, out here in the country.

KM: This is switching subjects completely, when you were

growing up, what did people do when people got sick?

CH: Well, you went to the doctor.

KM: You went to the doctor? Okay, because a lot of people

I've talked to didn't go to the doctor. I was just wondering.

CH: Well, you went to the doctor along then. I mean from

what I can know about me. Well, there won't much sickness or

nothing like that going on. If you got sick you could go to the

doctor.

KM: Did the doctor use to come out to see people?

CH: You know what? I don't know about that. I heard people

say that. Now I don't know about that. I sure don't.

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KM: Was the doctor that you would go to white or black?

CH: White man. A white man. He was a white man.

KM: A lot of people were telling me about roots and homemade

remedies for sickness. Did you all ever do any of that?

CH: Well, they used to give you something called some

sassafras tea or something or other for bad colds and stuff like

that. I don't know nothing about the rest. I don't. I remember

old sassafras tea they called it.

KM: So when you would go to a white doctor, the white

doctors treated black people and white people?

CH: Un-huh. Just like they do now.

KM: Would you have to sit in a separate waiting room?

CH: Well, no because you didn't have much to sit in along

then. Just like they had benches in there and you walk in and sit

there. Another man walk in, white or black and sits in the same

room.

KM: Was there a separate side?

CH: Un-uh. Just like a bench would be there over by the

wall right there.

KM: Do you remember seeing the sides, do you remember places

where colored and white couldn't be in the same room?

CH: Un-uh. No. Martin Luther King broke that up.

KM: Yeah I know. I'm talking about before.

CH: But I don't know nothing about it.

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KM: Before Martin Luther King you don't know anything about

it?

CH: Right. I don't.

KM: So you say you don't remember any of those signs. Did

you used to go to town a lot during this period?

CH: Naw because you didn't go nowhere that much, I didn't.

KM: Even when you would go to town you didn't see those

signs anywhere?

CH: No, I didn't see any.

KM: Did you know back then that there were such things, in

some places there were those things?

CH: Yeah I knowed.

KM: What did you think about that?

CH: Nothing. (Laughter) I ain't never thought nothing and

I don't til now about none of it. Because you were just as good

then as you is now. But God knows, you have came from a long

ways. That's the truth. Wonder if any of us are living hard as

we had to work. Lord just sent a blessing. Blessing.