invicta ceramic scratch test results - fail
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Bracelet link after and tool used: Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 683 Real Name: John Senior Member Veteran Geek Invicta ceramic scratch test results Closeup after testing: Closeup from another angle:TRANSCRIPT
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Posts: 683 Real Name: John
Invicta ceramic scratch test results
As a result of other postings pertaining to watchgeeks who have complained that their
ceramic Invicta's seem to flaking off or scratching. I took one of my links from my
Invicta and tried to scratch to see if I could and what the results would be. I do not know
the specific hardness of the ceramic used in the bracelets of these watches and I do not know the specific hardness of the knife blade that was used. All I can show you is the
results of testing so far. Here are the pictures:
Bracelet link before:
Bracelet link after and tool used:
Closeup after testing:
Closeup from another angle:
I will leave it up to others to try and explain these results . All I can say is that the ceramic
does look like another color underneath the blue( kinda silvery gray) I only mention this because the pictures may not show this clearly.
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#2
11-05-2008, 03:02 PM
Watch Noob Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,545
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Cool, thanks for taking the time and destroying one of your extra links for us. I have no idea
of the physical properties of ceramic, but I can see from your pictures that the "blue" color
sure doesn't appear that it's a solid color all the way through the link. It does appear that maybe the color is baked on a given micron level. Maybe some experts can weigh in and
share their observations.
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#3
11-05-2008, 03:05 PM
Flyback Senior Member
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WOW! That's counter to everything we've been told about the solid color.
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#4
11-05-2008, 03:09 PM
jjeckelxz5 Senior Member
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as a person that owns a ceramic pro diver, that is very agrevating
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#5
11-05-2008, 03:13 PM
HondaLover Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Can someone section the link with an abrasive disk so we can see a cross-section? It could
be that Invicta used ceramic outer stains for colorant which can be abraded away.
Or, is that "silvery grey" just the steel from the knife blade sticking to the harder ceramic?
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#6
11-05-2008, 03:20 PM
qwikfix Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
After looking at the scratches under a loupe and after trying to wipe off and buff the
scratches I don't see any change in the scratch marks. And yes I am going to attempt to
cut a cross sectional view using my Dremel, however that is going to have to wait until
tomorrow.
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#7
11-05-2008, 03:46 PM
sheraortho Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
WOW, that really is flying in the face of what we have been told regarding the durability of ceramic links. It appears not to be a huge advantage in having ceramic if this can happen!
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#8
11-05-2008, 04:04 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I really hope that ceramic color is solid throughout the link.
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#9
11-05-2008, 04:08 PM
Watch Guido Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I see, like other ceramics there is a Glazing.....
I will assume my Rado has the same properties. You will excuse me but I will pass on the
Knife test.
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#10
11-05-2008, 04:10 PM
Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Ok, that is weird.
I can promise you that the knife I gave Shawn, which he uses in his shows, is much more "hardcore" than the knife used here. And, it really does look like Shawn is pushing down on
the watch bands. So, I am very curious as to why this happened...
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#11
11-05-2008, 04:15 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Shawn was doing slicing cuts Magie, I'm guessing this was more of a hard, prolonged
scraping, which would probably be more effective in removing material.
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#12
11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
watchluv Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
That's why you can only believe Wing. If Wing says his ceramic is solid color throughout you
can believe him. __________________
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#13
11-05-2008, 05:07 PM
campbell Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
That's why you can only believe Wing. If Wing says his ceramic is solid color throughout you can believe him.
If you have a cermic Android, please prove your statement. I am very curious now as to what is going on.
I took a couple of my links from a Tungsten Android to work and let a few guys try to
scratch it...cutting and hacking at it with a knife showed some scraps but they wiped right
off as it was the metal from the knife blade, one guy dragged it across a brick wall, you have to look very hard to see any scratch after that.
I really hope Invicta and Eyal have been fully honest with us about this cermic watches.
Both my wife and I have one of the ceramic divers.
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#14
11-05-2008, 05:28 PM
bdgrewe74 Senior Member
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I would be interested in seeing the results of the cross section... This just gives me another
reason not to buy a ceramic watch... besides not being interested in ceramic designs....
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#15
11-05-2008, 05:29 PM
HondaLover Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Rather than sectioning with a Dremel tool and cutoff disk, another option is merely hitting
the link with a hammer. The fractured pieces will show the color clearly with no cutting
debris.
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#16
11-05-2008, 05:48 PM
bdgrewe74 Senior Member
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YEA!!! smash and grab baby!!! don`t take pictures of the aftermath... just take a video!!! of
the smashing!!
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#17
11-05-2008, 05:54 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Actually the next thing I'm going to try is to see if I can get the blue to flake off. If I can do
this then there will not be any reason to cross sectional cut it or smash with a hammer.
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#18
11-05-2008, 06:13 PM
Emfan Senior Member Senior Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Very interesting... can't wait to see your flake off / smash / cross-section test results
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#19
11-05-2008, 06:18 PM
JavaQueen Senior Member Super Geek
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Cermic is durable, but I think it is really meant to deliberately bang around--Lior has said as much regarding Swiss Legend. So in other words, if you drag it across your desk or bump it
against most things, it should be OK. Take a hammer, chisel or throw it on a stone floor,
then you have a problem. That goes for Invicta or any other ceramic watch. Their key
benefit is being light and scratchproof. I noticed that Jill Sommerstein noted that ceramic watches are not "indestructible."
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#20
11-05-2008, 06:22 PM
watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
That's why you can only believe Wing. If Wing says his ceramic is solid color throughout
you can believe him.
If you have a cermic Android, please prove your statement. I am very curious now as to
what is going on.
I took a couple of my links from a Tungsten Android to work and let a few guys try to scratch it...cutting and hacking at it with a knife showed some scraps but they wiped right
off as it was the metal from the knife blade, one guy dragged it across a brick wall, you
have to look very hard to see any scratch after that.
I really hope Invicta and Eyal have been fully honest with us about this cermic watches.
Both my wife and I have one of the ceramic divers.
I am not cutting or breaking my Android up, sorry. But the reason I say that is Wings color
doesn't look metalic it looks like a dull shiny finish. The bricks can have a bit of diamond
dust. Never scratch a watch on a rock or brick you don't know the composition of.
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#21
11-05-2008, 06:37 PM
watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
A bricklayer told me that you really don't know what is in the clay you make bricks with. I
also found this that tells that brick are as ceramics that will probably scratch ceramic and
tungsten. here's the link http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/schools/UCL/bricks.htm
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#22
11-05-2008, 06:42 PM
JavaQueen Senior Member
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You know, I just realized I typed scratchproof. I mean scratch-resistant. But hey, I just
found out that it is possible to chip diamonds and they're 10 on the hardness scale.
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#23
11-05-2008, 06:53 PM
CharlieB Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdgrewe74";p=" YEA!!! smash and grab baby!!! don`t take pictures of the aftermath... just take a video!!!
of the smashing!!
You rock Brian!!!
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#24
11-05-2008, 07:04 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaQueen";p="
Cermic is durable, but I think it is really meant to deliberately bang around--Lior has said
as much regarding Swiss Legend. So in other words, if you drag it across your desk or bump it against most things, it should be OK. Take a hammer, chisel or throw it on a stone
floor, then you have a problem. That goes for Invicta or any other ceramic watch. Their
key benefit is being light and scratchproof. I noticed that Jill Sommerstein noted that
ceramic watches are not "indestructible."
You mean it is NOT meant to bang around right?
The breaking of it is not to show it is breakable, we know ceramic is breakable. It is to see
if the color is consistent throughout the link, which Eyal said it is.
quikfix, if you don't mind doing it, it would still be good for you to break a link even if you
get a flaking, because it will show without a doubt what the color is all the way through. I
want to know now if what Eyal said is true, because I bought my wife's watch based on his statement that there is consistent color throughout the links.
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#25
11-05-2008, 07:09 PM
holeout Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Ok, curiosity got the best of me. I tried to cross section one of the links with a Dremel. The
cut off wheel would not go through it. So, not to be defeated, I hit it with a hammer. The
results are this:
The Blue does not go all the way through. It is merely a glaze on the surface. Underneath is
a dull black ceramic (Not the silver color we saw with the knife scrapping. That is most
likely from the knife).
The same thing goes for the Black sections. They are the same dull black ceramic color all
the way through underneath the shiny glaze on the surface.
The funny thing is that on the Blue link it broke apart where the pin goes through and you
can clearly see the level where the Blue glaze was baked. You can clearly see that
redish\orange from the heat of the baking process and where it stops and natural black color
of ceramic resumes. I will try to get some pics to document all the results.
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#27
11-05-2008, 07:15 PM
kid_karl Member Member Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I am shocked by this. I was considering a ceramic watch because I ruin practically every
metal bracelet I own by rubbing it on my desk while working. That scratch looks exactly like
what would happen after prolonged rubbing granted it would probably take a bit of time, I am sure it would eventually wear. I have always thought that ceramic was solid color all the
way through. Are there different type or grades of ceramic? I am really surprised that
Invicta would be using a cheaper method of coloring a ceramic band if one does indeed
exist.
The other thing I am wondering is if it is indeed true ceramic may flake, what if that should
happen to a ceramic dial a few years down the line? I will be watching this thread for sure for more test results!
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#28
11-05-2008, 07:29 PM
HondaLover Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
First of all, even with attempted scraping from the knife, the steel of the knife wore off and
silver colored the ceramic glaze. The glaze did not scratch off.
Second, it is very common to color ceramics with metal oxide glazes. They are very durable,
but not indestructible. We were told that the color went through and through, however.
All that said, I still want to know how the wife wore off the ceramic glaze color with only two days of wear at work. It is far more likely that whatever was rubbing against the
ceramic was softer, abraded, and left a smear layer on the ceramic (as did the steel knife).
Thanks for doing the test, Shawn!
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#29
11-05-2008, 07:37 PM
bdgrewe74 Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Eureka!!!! WE have found the solution... Nothing like alittle SMASH and Grab to get straight
to the answers!!! I love it... I just wish I had something to smash!!! Eyal should know that
geeks are always out for the true.. by what ever means possible!! BAMB!!!
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#30
11-05-2008, 07:40 PM
holeout Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Ok gentlemen and ladies. This is my first attempt at watch related photography so forgive
the quality. Here is the pic to support my previous post. Notice the piece with the pin
channel and how you can clearly see the scorch marks from the baking and the level at
which the glaze goes.
[fullalbumimg:684530fe3b]4914[/fullalbumimg:684530fe3b]
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#31
11-05-2008, 07:59 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdgrewe74";p="
I just wish I had something to smash!!! Eyal should know that geeks are always out for the
true.. by what ever means possible!! BAMB!!!
Hey Brian, PM me and I'll tell you what you can smash!!!
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#32
11-05-2008, 08:01 PM
CurrentTime Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
This is just incredible! I truly may have misunderstood what I heard from the product
de.scription, but I have always been left with the impression that the color of the ceramic was the whole way through each piece of ceramic. This would be the case because each
ceramic link was fired with it's color "mixed in".
Now I see that this is not the case.
An unfortunate discovery, but a discovery all the same.
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#33
11-05-2008, 08:11 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by holeout";p="
Ok gentlemen and ladies. This is my first attempt at watch related photography so forgive
the quality. Here is the pic to support my previous post. Notice the piece with the pin
channel and how you can clearly see the scorch marks from the baking and the level at which the glaze goes.
[fullalbumimg:b4b74fb23e]4914[/fullalbumimg:b4b74fb23e]
Shawn, your photography is appreciated. It clearly seems to show that the color is not
throughout the link as Eyal has consistently stated, but is merely an outer layer.
We don't know definitively yet if what people are seeing is beneath that layer because it was worn through, or if it's residual material from whatever was rubbing against it. Maybe the
outer color layer is durable enough not to wear through, maybe not. But we do know that we
were not given accurate information by the sellers, the color does not go throughout the
links.
This should be brought to Jim's or Eyal's attention for their information and comment.
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#34
11-05-2008, 08:12 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Results of the flaking test show that the blue is scraping off. I used an xacto blade and I can see blue flecks using my 25X magnifying device. Based on flaking and the before mentioned
smash test it sure sounds like the ceramic was coated with some material and is not a solid
all the way through. I like the watch but I am less than thrilled to find this out.
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#35
11-05-2008, 08:34 PM
CurrentTime Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I've not been attracted to ceramic watches at all. The fear that I would completely smash
the ceramic is based on the many, many LED/LCD watches that I've smashed throughout
the 1980s!
I fear that any ceramic watch that would be put on my wrist would be ruined.
Now with what has been discovered through this thread, there's no way my ceramic watch
would remain aesthetically pleasing even if it didn't shatter into tiny little bits.
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#36
11-05-2008, 08:48 PM
CharlieB Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Ok, I asked Jim to read this thread and comment on it. He'll be able to help sort this out for
us. __________________
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#37
11-05-2008, 08:56 PM
alwaystenpastten Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Now that it has been shown that links can be broken with a hammer, and stated they can be
scratched with a knife if done deliberately, and stated that the surface color does not go all the way through, here is my question: is the ceramic significantly more scratch-resistant
than stainless steel? And going with the premise that the color of the ceramic band is on
the surface only, how does the surface color compare to gold, gunmetal, or black plating,
with regard to scratching and flaking?
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#38
11-05-2008, 09:21 PM
trav Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Wow thats unexpected.I really thought the parts was made from that color material and just
glazed to give the final surface finish.I thought i heard Eyal say that was all the way through
or did i miss something?Well thanks to the guys who did these test the proof is in the pics,it
appears to be nothing more than a color coating.
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#39
11-05-2008, 09:50 PM
merichar Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaystenpastten";p="
Now that it has been shown that links can be broken with a hammer, and stated they can
be scratched with a knife if done deliberately, and stated that the surface color does not go all the way through, here is my question: is the ceramic significantly more scratch-
resistant than stainless steel? And going with the premise that the color of the ceramic
band is on the surface only, how does the surface color compare to gold, gunmetal, or
black plating, with regard to scratching and flaking?
This is by no means scientific but I have a picture which shows the scratch resistance of
ceramic. I have an Invicta bracelet which is tungsten and ceramic. I have worn it quite a
bit in the last 2-3 years and it has held up very well, with the exception of the clasp which is stainless. The picture shows some serious scratching on the clasp. There are no scratches on
the tungsten or ceramic parts.
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#40
11-05-2008, 10:02 PM
Arktander WatchGeeks Moderator
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#41
11-05-2008, 10:56 PM
watchcollector1968 Senior Member Super Geek
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The knife used looks to be a Wenger Swiss-Army-Knife. The steel used in it is on the soft
side. I suspect the silver scratches are more knife steel than scratches in the ceramic. If so,
it would probably take more than wiping it off to get it out. I have used ceramic knife
sharpeners in the past and they do get "loaded up" with steel and you generally need either a very abrasive eraser meant for cleaning steel out of ceramic or scrub pretty good with an
SOS pad.
As for the color, I cant remember if Eyal said the color went all the way through or that the links were solid ceramic.
Anyways, could you see if the scratches are removed via scrubbing with something mildly
abrasive like an SOS pad or one of the abrasive erasers?
Thanks for the test!!!
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#42
11-06-2008, 12:05 AM
wave3214 Senior Member
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Wow this is all amazing. I bet the vendors never figured anyone would go to these lenths. What else are we being mislead about (lol) if indeed we are. I ll be real curious to read a
response from Jim and maybe some of the vendors
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#43
11-06-2008, 12:25 AM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Interesting thread, and thanks to Shawn for doing the hard work for us.
As we all know, absolutely nothing is totally impervious, so yes... of course we know that
ceramic can be scratched. I don't think this was news to anyone, but seeing a color other
than blue on the inside is something that none of us expected, and I will be passing this
along to Eyal for him to look at.
My apologies to anyone feeling misled about the color on the inside.
Luckily it is very difficult to ever expose this interior color (it will be much tougher than
steel), but the outcome was not what was expected, so I understand the concern.
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#44
11-06-2008, 02:11 AM
SeanCM WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Now we'll need to take these links
back to the lab for further analysis!!
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#45
11-06-2008, 08:58 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
OK, so the question I now have is how hard is it really to get through that coating? Did a
lady do it after a couple of days working at an office desk? And if so, how if the ceramic
coating is harder than steel?
Has anyone else seen any wear through in this links? Any scratches or wear at all?
As for mislead, Jim has no responsibility whatsoever for that. He states in good faith what
the manufacturer claims, he can't verify it all himself. I don't understand how Eyal wouldn't
know what the inside of the links really looks like. That he would never have seen a crosss section of one. Maybe how they were made changed along the way and he didn't know.
Because it seems to me that he could just as effectively say that the links are coated but the
coating is so strong if will probably never scratch or wear off, and leave it at that.
This does create a credibility issue with me, I'm sorry to say.
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#46
11-06-2008, 09:18 AM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Charlie, I agree with most of what you are saying however there are two points I would like to make at this time. I am not assuming that the coating if that's what it is, is made from
ceramic. And it is possible that Eyal was not properly informed on exactly how this bracelet
was made. I am not going to make any excuses for anyone however I don't know where this
bracelet was manufactured but it seems to me there have been a lot of things manufactured lately that were not as promised.
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#47
11-06-2008, 10:19 AM
trav Senior Member
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If Eyal didn't get what he and consequently his customers ordered then that could be a long
chain of backlashes.I would hate to be the person trying to sort that mess out.
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#48
11-06-2008, 10:31 AM
srebo70 Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I tend to agree that Invicta producing in excess of 1 Million watches per year would make it
nearlyimpossible for Eyal to be involved in every process of every watch.
I am very sure that if Jim says he is bringing this to Eyal's attention, he will. I don't believe Eyal is going to let his reputation suffer due to a lack of quality on his or a vendor's part.
There are many avenues the cause of this can go down. Let's see what we here from the
man himself!
On a sidenote, you guys just made me want to go home and smash up the extra links of my
Tungsten/Ceramic Tide now!
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#49
11-06-2008, 10:40 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by srebo70";p="
On a sidenote, you guys just made me want to go home and smash up the extra links of
my Tungsten/Ceramic Tide now!
It would be interesting to know if this situation extends to other models. Do it on one link
and show us pics! __________________
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#50
11-06-2008, 10:49 AM
BigJoe Original Past Ambassador True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I was always under the impression that ceramic was a solid color and I have spoken with
Wing about this many times it appears here this is not the case and I will have to do some
research but I belive this is a manufactoring problem and not something Mr.Lalo was aware of it would be very interesting to here from him on this matter.
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qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 683 Real Name: John
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Warning do not polish your ceramic
Invicta with a Dremel at any speed!
Some have asked that I polish the links to see if I could get the scratch marks off. I did
this with my Dremel polishing kit. I used a new polishing head and nothing else. No
abrasive cream or polishing compound whatsoever. You can see by looking at the polishing
head(which is made of some sort cloth) you can see where the blue layer came off on the head.
And this pic is a closeup of the link itself. You can see if you look close most of my cut and
scrape marks are gone but then so is the blue color.
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#52
11-06-2008, 02:15 PM
HondaLover Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Apparently all the links are black ceramic, with the center links coated. Interesting, thanks!
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#53
11-06-2008, 02:21 PM
ericf Banned Super Geek
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you guys are all nutz............lol
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#54
11-06-2008, 02:51 PM
Watch Noob Banned Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
If someone new to the forum were to read this thread, it's somewhat confusing as 2 different
companies are mixed into this thread. You have it started with Invicta which the first set of
pics are of the Ceramic Diver. The cross sectioned pics are of the same watch. Then you have an Android thrown in and discussion ensues about Android. To my knowledge no
investigation e.g. cross sectioning or scratching or Android ceramic bracelets have been
done. Maybe this thread should be separated into 2 different threads, because we wouldn't
want the innocent getting fragged by accident
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#55
11-06-2008, 04:57 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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I spoke with Eyal about this a few hours ago, and also sent him this link.
He will personally be responding to this thread when time allows. He is doing some follow up
on HIS end before making any comments.
You'll want to stay tuned for this.... __________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by charleswatts
Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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#56
11-06-2008, 06:30 PM
new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p="
Warning do not polish your ceramic Invicta with a Dremel at any speed!
Some have asked that I polish the links to see if I could get the scratch marks off. I did
this with my Dremel polishing kit. I used a new polishing head and nothing else. No abrasive cream or polishing compound whatsoever. You can see by looking at the polishing
head(which is made of some sort cloth) you can see where the blue layer came off on the
head.
And this pic is a closeup of the link itself. You can see if you look close most of my cut and scrape marks are gone but then so is the blue color.
WOW!
If the ceramic is tougher than steel what is the polishing head made of? I'm no rocket scientist, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night, and the blue shouldn't come off
like that.
JMHO of course.
I am anxious to see the out come of this, I have a lady's ceramic watch coming for my wife
and bought it because of how durable it is supposed to be, the color was supposed to be
continuous and if it was scratched you really shouldn't notice. She is not easy on her watches and I am now apprehensive of how well it will hold up to her abuse.
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#57
11-06-2008, 07:38 PM
PBROSSEAU Member Member Geek
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I BROKE A LINK FROM ANOTHER BRAND I WONT SAY WHAT BRAND HERE BUT IT WAS THE
SAME COLOR ALL THE WAY THRU I HAVE TWO FROM INVICTA AND IM GOING TO BREAK
ONE LINK FROM EACH COLOR AND SEE WHATS INSIDE I LOVE THE WATCH BUT I WAS
TOLD IT WAS A SOLID COLOR THRU THE LINK AND IT WAS A BIG REASON TO BUY THE
WATCH I JUST DONT KNOW HOW THIS COULD HAPPEN VERY SAD I DID NOT GET WHAT I
THOUGHT I WAS BUYING THAT SUCKS
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#58
11-06-2008, 08:37 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBROSSEAU";p="
I BROKE A LINK FROM ANOTHER BRAND I WONT SAY WHAT BRAND HERE BUT IT WAS THE SAME COLOR ALL THE WAY THRU I HAVE TWO FROM INVICTA AND IM GOING TO
BREAK ONE LINK FROM EACH COLOR AND SEE WHATS INSIDE I LOVE THE WATCH BUT I
WAS TOLD IT WAS A SOLID COLOR THRU THE LINK AND IT WAS A BIG REASON TO BUY
THE WATCH I JUST DONT KNOW HOW THIS COULD HAPPEN VERY SAD I DID NOT GET
WHAT I THOUGHT I WAS BUYING THAT SUCKS
Please post pics of what you come up with.
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#59
11-06-2008, 08:39 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
WOW! If the ceramic is tougher than steel what is the polishing head made of? I'm no
rocket scientist, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night, and the blue shouldn't
come off like that.
Cloth. He used a cloth polishing head with no compound. __________________
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#60
11-07-2008, 10:50 AM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Here is Eyal's direct response that I received in my email this morning:
"Jim all watches are verified and are 100% ceramic, in and out.
The Blue / Brown / Black etc color is NOT plating... The color is made during the Flame
process under very high temp. and fixed with the ceramic in a unique technique IDENTICAL
to all other brands in ceramic!!"
Hope this helps.
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#61
11-07-2008, 11:13 AM
new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
So what Eyal is saying/implying that the "blue" is all the way through, even though the
inside is black? Or the black becomes blue upon firing?
I don't think anyone was questioning if the link was ceramic all the way through, just why is
the blue coming off or not blue all the way through.
PBROSSEAU, I'm sure I'm not the only one that is interested in seeing a pick of the link you busted.
I can tell you my wife isn't getting her watch until this is figured out, she'll just end up
scratching the he!! out of it, certainly not what I want to happen for what I spent!
edit
"....unique technique IDENTICAL to all other brands in ceramic!!"
Uhm? wouldn't that be a common technique? Since "unique" implies without equal, one of a
kind.
Sorry, I couldn't help it, but words do have meanings!
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#62
11-07-2008, 11:14 AM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton
Here is Eyal's direct response that I received in my email this morning:
"Jim all watches are verified and are 100% ceramic, in and out.
The Blue / Brown / Black etc color is NOT plating... The color is made during the Flame
process under very high temp. and fixed with the ceramic in a unique technique
IDENTICAL to all other brands in ceramic!!"
Hope this helps.
Jim, for me this just raises more questions. The part about quote "The color is made during
the Flame process under very high temp. and fixed with the ceramic in a unique technique
Identical to all other brands in ceramic." does not seem to be the same as the color is all
the way through but a process that is applied to the ceramic to achieve the desired color.
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#63
11-07-2008, 11:20 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Eyal's response is helpful and appreciated, but saying it's all ceramic made the way everybody else does it, does not address the problem. The exterior color is coming off
people's watches, with a different color showing beneath.
From what we were told, that wasn't supposed to happen. We know now know that it really
isn't accurate to state that it's the same color throughout the link, which was repeated many times on the shows, and was persuasive to many people's buying decision.
What is Invicta going to do for people who have the color coming off, and another color
showing beneath? Will they replace any links necessary under warranty? In my opinion, that
should have been a part of Eyal's response, and addressing that would be appropriate. __________________
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#64
11-07-2008, 11:24 AM
CurrentTime Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I wonder if Eyal doesn't completely understand what has occurred here? It would be cool if
he could read the post (if he hasn't already) and see that some type of "coating" is being
removed from the link. This shouldn't be happening if the material that exists on the outside
of the ceramic link was the same as what is in it's core.
For example: Grinding away at a 100% link of stainless steel DOES NOT reveal another
material in the center of the link. I realize that my example should read in the reverse, but
you get my point. Looking at a cutaway of a stainless steel link does not reveal a material on the surface that is different than at it's core.
I was led to believe that what you see on the outside of a ceramic link is also what's on the
inside.
Very interesting.
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#65
11-07-2008, 02:39 PM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p="
Here is Eyal's direct response that I received in my email this morning:
"Jim all watches are verified and are 100% ceramic, in and out.
The Blue / Brown / Black etc color is NOT plating... The color is made during the Flame
process under very high temp. and fixed with the ceramic in a unique technique
IDENTICAL to all other brands in ceramic!!"
Hope this helps.
Jim,
Eyal's answer is confusing to me. Is it or isn't it the same color thru and thru? I find it
strange that during the flaming process, it changes the color. If this is true, then it wouldn't be the same color thru and thru as stated in the shows. I'm only trying to understand his e-
mail response.............Roy
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#66
11-07-2008, 02:43 PM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieB";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by PBROSSEAU";p="
I BROKE A LINK FROM ANOTHER BRAND I WONT SAY WHAT BRAND HERE BUT IT WAS
THE SAME COLOR ALL THE WAY THRU I HAVE TWO FROM INVICTA AND IM GOING TO
BREAK ONE LINK FROM EACH COLOR AND SEE WHATS INSIDE I LOVE THE WATCH BUT I WAS TOLD IT WAS A SOLID COLOR THRU THE LINK AND IT WAS A BIG REASON TO BUY
THE WATCH I JUST DONT KNOW HOW THIS COULD HAPPEN VERY SAD I DID NOT GET
WHAT I THOUGHT I WAS BUYING THAT SUCKS
Please post pics of what you come up with.
I agree too. Please post the pictures so we can make a good comparison to the Invicta
links............Roy
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#67
11-07-2008, 02:52 PM
SeanCM WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
It seems to me that there is some type of colored glaze that is applied over the ceramic and then baked in a kiln.
Isn't that similar to what we used to do in pottery class??
Yes I took a pottery class in High School...don't laugh...LOL!!
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#68
11-07-2008, 02:53 PM
Watch Noob Banned Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I like Eyal, but I'm sorry, that was the most political statement I've heard around here. It
does absolutely nothing to address the issue at hand.
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#69
11-07-2008, 03:00 PM
bdgrewe74 Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watch Noob
I like Eyal, but I'm sorry, that was the most political statement I've heard around here. It does absolutely nothing to address the issue at hand.
I agree that answer was quite cryptic... and said basically nothing... lol.. well whats a president of a company supposed to do.. I bet some heads might be rolling inside the
company over ``possible false information he was stating on air``.. anyways..
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#70
11-07-2008, 03:58 PM
watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in the
future. So he's moving on. Remember he said he wasn't going to do a Ceramic watch again,
now I know why. I will never buy another Invicta Ceramic watch because you know Eyal
will produce some more. Always remember buy your Ceramic watches from Wing his are
real color through and through. He told me and I believe Wing, I have never caught him giving false information.
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#71
11-07-2008, 07:09 PM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in the
future. So he's moving on. Remember he said he wasn't going to do a Ceramic watch
again, now I know why. I will never buy another Invicta Ceramic watch because you know Eyal will produce some more. Always remember buy your Ceramic watches from
Wing his are real color through and through. He told me and I believe Wing, I have never
caught him giving false information.
I couldn't agree more. I just hope Eyal decides to make good on these ceramic watches. It
is the right thing to do....................Roy
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#72
11-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p=" Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in the
future. So he's moving on.
I agree that Eyal's response didn't go to the heart of the matter, but unless you can substantiate this type of statement, making it is irresponsible.
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#73
11-08-2008, 12:51 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
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#74
11-08-2008, 05:55 PM
ethan butts Member Member Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p="
THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Is this surprising?
I am sure that the "spin doctors" at Invicta are either working feverishly to come up with an iron clad reason that reflects no fault on their part OR they hope this will eventually go
away,as often happens.
Keep posting if you want an answer.
I see another yellow card in my future for simply stating an opinion.
Oh Well!
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#75
11-08-2008, 06:13 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan butts Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p=" THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Is this surprising? I am sure that the "spin doctors" at Invicta are either working feverishly to come up with
an iron clad reason that reflects no fault on their part OR they hope this will eventually go
away,as often happens.
Keep posting if you want an answer.
I see another yellow card in my future for simply stating an opinion.
Oh Well!
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions as to what someone is or isn't doing. All I can say is that
as of yet we have not seen on this thread a direct reponse from anybody at Invicta that addresses why the links are reacting the way they are or why the links give the appearance
of not being the same color throughout as claimed.
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I'm sorry everyone, I'm not sure what you're looking for now.
Eyal answered, and IMO he was very clear.
Invicta bakes the ceramic at high heat to create the colors, and uses the same process as every other major brand.
I wish there was more I could tell you, but that is the process defined.
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#77
11-08-2008, 06:17 PM
Jackprime1 Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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WOW...I am really shocked over this. I own the ocean ghost ceramic and tungsten. I hope
nothing happens to the watch. I have it for 2 yrs now and have not seen any damage to it at
all. This thread got my attention big time. I hope we all get answers shortly.
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#78
11-08-2008, 06:19 PM
trav Senior Member
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To be honest a manufacturing defect is just that nothing more.Of course we don't even know
if this is the case yet.True a lot of people have gripes with Invictas CS but in all fairness Eyal does produce a good product with a lot more value and features in them than necessary.This
doesn't give me the impression that he is the kind of guy that would intentionally sell
something below par.I say give the man a chance to research it more and maybe come up
with a solution.
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#79
11-08-2008, 06:20 PM
watchluv Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBack";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p=" Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in the
future. So he's moving on.
I agree that Eyal's response didn't go to the heart of the matter, but unless you can
substantiate this type of statement, making it is irresponsible.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. I'd bet on me.
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#80
11-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Flyback Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBack";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in the
future. So he's moving on.
I agree that Eyal's response didn't go to the heart of the matter, but unless you can
substantiate this type of statement, making it is irresponsible.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. I'd bet on me.
I'll say it again, to make an unsubstantiated statement that Invicta, or any other vendor for
that matter, "doesn't want to fix" a possible flaw in their product is completely irresponsible.
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#81
11-08-2008, 07:24 PM
watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Posts: 2,577
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBack";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBack";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
Eyal knows he messed up real bad and doesn't want to fix all the discolored links in
the future. So he's moving on.
I agree that Eyal's response didn't go to the heart of the matter, but unless you can substantiate this type of statement, making it is irresponsible.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. I'd bet on me.
I'll say it again, to make an unsubstantiated statement that Invicta, or any other vendor
for that matter, "doesn't want to fix" a possible flaw in their product is completely irresponsible.
I'll admit that Eyal didn't say he wont fix the links. I am (myself) saying he's not going to do it. If you think he will fix all those links out there then it's like I stated before, time will tell
but I'm betting on my statement.
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#82
11-08-2008, 07:30 PM
CharlieB Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" I'm sorry everyone, I'm not sure what you're looking for now.
Eyal answered, and IMO he was very clear.
Invicta bakes the ceramic at high heat to create the colors, and uses the same process
as every other major brand.
I wish there was more I could tell you, but that is the process defined.
When I read this, and the other threads on this subject, I'm not seeing the members saying
please define the ceramic link manufacturing process. This is what I hear the members of
this forum saying they want:
1) It was said again and again, every time I saw the Invicta Ceramic Pro Diver sold on a
ShopNBC show, that the color of the ceramic links goes all the way thru the link. Eyal's
explanation says how the color is created on the outside, and that's how everyone does it. Great, good to know. But that's not what we were told during the shows. We were told the
color is consistent throughout the link so if it's scratched/gouged which is real hard to do
because ceramic is so hard, the same color is underneath. And that was an important factor
to many, including myself, who decided to purchase. I hear the members saying how is it we
were told this as fact when it is not actually the case? And Eyal's statement did not answer this. It should be answered.
2) Also, now that we know that the color is not consistent through the entire link, and we
know that the color comes off under normal use (if you believe the posters in these threads and their pictures), exposing a different color beneath. When we were told that under
normal wear the watch should still look like new 20 years later, it would be nice to hear
some kind of explanation why this isn't the case, why the surface color is wearing off under
normal use.
3) There was no commitment on Eyal/Invicta's part to replace ceramic links that are
showing the different color under the surface color. I think the geeks who own these watches
would like to hear that commitment and what the process will be to go about getting needed replacements.
Jim, I am not saying any of this in anger, it is put forth with due respect to you and Eyal
because I really like both of you guys a lot. But you said you aren't sure what the member's
are looking for, and the above summarizes what I'm hearing. They can correct me or add to it as they deem appropriate.
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#83
11-08-2008, 07:34 PM
holzapfel Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Well said Charlie, I was about to respond to Jim with the same sentiments.
Thanks, __________________
°·» Hólzápƒèl «·°
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Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man
shall say to his assailant, "If I Live, I will kill you, If I Die, You are forgiven." Such is the Rule
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#84
11-08-2008, 07:37 PM
Flyback Senior Member
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I second that notion, well reasoned comments Charlie.
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#85
11-08-2008, 07:47 PM
HondaLover Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I bet that if some of you broke the black or white links, the color would be through and through.
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#86
11-08-2008, 07:53 PM
bdgrewe74 Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieB Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" I'm sorry everyone, I'm not sure what you're looking for now.
Eyal answered, and IMO he was very clear.
Invicta bakes the ceramic at high heat to create the colors, and uses the same process as every other major brand.
I wish there was more I could tell you, but that is the process defined.
When I read this, and the other threads on this subject, I'm not seeing the members
saying please define the process. This is what I hear the members of this forum saying
they want:
1) It was said again and again, every time I saw the Invicta Ceramic Pro Diver sold on a
ShopNBC show, that the color of the ceramic links goes all the way thru the link. Eyal's
explanation says how the color is created on the outside, and that's how everyone does it. Great, good to know. But that's not what we were told during the shows. We were told the
color is consistent throughout the link so if it's scratched/gouged which is real hard to do
because ceramic is so hard, the same color is underneath. And that was an important
factor to many who decided to purchase. I hear the members saying how is it we were told
this as fact when it is not actually the case? And Eyal's statement did not answer this. It should be answered.
2) Also, now that we know that the color is not consistent through the entire link, and we
know that the color comes off under normal use (if you believe the posters in these threads and their pictures), exposing a different color beneath. When we were told that under
normal wear the watch should still look like new 20 years later, it would be nice to hear
some kind of explanation why this isn't the case, why the surface color is wearing off under
normal use.
3) There was no commitment on Eyal/Invicta's part to replace ceramic links that are
showing the different color under the surface color. I think the geeks who own these
watches would like to hear that commitment and what the process will be to go about
getting needed replacements.
Jim, I am not saying any of this in anger, it is put forth with due respect to you and Eyal. But you said you aren't sure what the member's are looking for, and the above
summarizes what I'm hearing. They can correct me or add to it as they deem appropriate.
Bravo, and well said Charlie, I think you stated exactly what members are concerned
about..and want a straight answer .... People just don't like being "misled" if you said the
color goes all the way through the link, them admit you were wrong... and say" I'm sorry if
told you something thats not completely true... " this would be integrety..
Eyal is a great sales man... for sure... he knows his stuff, and he knows how to sell and sell
it with conviction.... so this makes people believe what he says , and spend money based on
these presentations... and not getting what they expect hurts , emotionally and monetarily. __________________
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#87
11-08-2008, 07:54 PM
qwikfix Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p="
I'm sorry everyone, I'm not sure what you're looking for now.
Eyal answered, and IMO he was very clear.
Invicta bakes the ceramic at high heat to create the colors, and uses the same process
as every other major brand.
I wish there was more I could tell you, but that is the process defined.
Jim, I say this with all due respect I am not looking for anything now, I and I believe a good
majority of the watchgeeks out here are looking for some answers still. I understand Eyal's point that all major brands use this process, however the other major brands did not come
on your show and tell all the viewers myself included that one of the major selling points of
this watch was how scratch resistant and resilient this ceramic watch was because the
links in the bracelet were the same color all the way through. And now there are watches out
there that the outer color seems to be wearing through and as evidenced by some pictures
that in fact the link may not be a solid color all the way through. Jim, even you seemed shocked at this revelation and not only on this thread, but several others that are out there
that deal with these questions as well. The bottom line is that I and others purchased this
watch based on what we were led to believe about certain properties of this watch that in my
opinion were not stated accurately.
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#88
11-08-2008, 07:57 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15,180 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackprime1";p="
WOW...I am really shocked over this. I own the ocean ghost ceramic and tungsten. I hope
nothing happens to the watch. I have it for 2 yrs now and have not seen any damage to it at all. This thread got my attention big time. I hope we all get answers shortly.
After 2 years of wear yours has no issues, so there's no reason to expect any.
Enjoy the watch! I always loved that one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with
your viewers.
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#89
11-08-2008, 07:58 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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Posts: 15,180 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
I'll admit that Eyal didn't say he wont fix the links.
Exactly... Eyal never said that.
I might have missed it, but has anyone contacted Rebecca about their links and getting them replaced? I doubt there would be an issue. Unless I missed something (and that is possible),
folks are making an issue out of Invicta not replacing the links based on nothing more than
speculation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with
your viewers.
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#90
11-08-2008, 08:02 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaLover";p=" I bet that if some of you broke the black or white links, the color would be through and
through.
I would bet my life on it. __________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by charleswatts
Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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#91
11-08-2008, 08:03 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner
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I understand how you feel Charlie, I honestly do... and I appreciate your post.
I just have no other info that would help.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charleswatts
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#92
11-09-2008, 12:07 AM
Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,273
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Just a quick response regarding another brand's ceramic...
I got the black Abyss ceramic watch from Android. Since I can be a brute when sizing
(apparently), I actually chipped a link. I can tell you that the black went ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!
Can't put a pic of it here because Wing was nice enough to replace it for me, free of charge!
But, for those who were asking in this thread, Android's ceramic watch color definately goes all the way through. I don't recommend anyone chipping their own links to learn this. There
are fools like me that can do it without even trying!
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#93
11-09-2008, 12:14 AM
CharlieB Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Maggie, from what I'm learning reading the threads on this issue with the Invicta ceramic
links, it sounds like the black and the white links probably are consistent in color all the way
through. The blue is not, it's dark gray under the blue ,and an educated guess is that the brown is that way too.
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#94
11-09-2008, 12:18 AM
Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: Southern California Posts: 10,273
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieB";p="
Maggie, from what I'm learning reading the threads on this issue with the Invicta
ceramic links, it sounds like the black and the white links probably are consistent in color all the way through. The blue is not, it's dark gray under the blue ,and an educated guess
is that the brown is that way too.
I gathered as much, but someone had asked about other brands. I did not know it was
specific to blue/brown.
So, nevermind my 2 cents thrown in about Android.
By the way, you put things quite well, Charlie...
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#95
11-09-2008, 05:45 PM
Rodeoboy Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Posts: 573
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Look on the inside of your ceramic midlinks. The point where the steel clasp fold rubs
against the ceramic has taken the blue color off of mine. .I am talking a big area here. Also
have 2 scratches on the outer midlink and it is a shiny silvery color, not a solid blue. I tried
soap and water with a cloth ...nothing comes off. My steel or rubber watches are wearing
way better than this. In another year I will have a black grey silver blue watch. I distinctly remember Eyal saying this was a solid color through and through and the blue, brown, etc.,
would never wear off. Jim said it would look the same in 20 years as the day you bought it. I
guess this will become a beater watch ...a $220 beater watch. Ouch.
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#96
11-09-2008, 07:03 PM
watchcollector1968 Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,231
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I dont know if this will apply or not, but using soap and water to get the shiny silver marks
out may not work. I use a ceramic knife sharpener sometimes and it will get "loaded" with steel from the blade. Soap and water will not clean them at all...you must use something
fairly abrasive.
They make erasers (not the pink pencil kind) that are very rough and used for cleaning ceramic sharpening rods. That maybe something to try on your and see if the shiny stuff is
just other material "loaded" up in the ceramic.
Note: Try at your own risk, if it goofs up your links I dont want to be responsible for it...just
telling you my experience with ceramic sharpeners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodeoboy";p="
Look on the inside of your ceramic midlinks. The point where the steel clasp fold rubs
against the ceramic has taken the blue color off of mine. .I am talking a big area here.
Also have 2 scratches on the outer midlink and it is a shiny silvery color, not a solid blue. I tried soap and water with a cloth ...nothing comes off. My steel or rubber watches are
wearing way better than this. In another year I will have a black grey silver blue watch. I
distinctly remember Eyal saying this was a solid color through and through and the blue,
brown, etc., would never wear off. Jim said it would look the same in 20 years as the day you bought it. I guess this will become a beater watch ...a $220 beater watch. Ouch.
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#97
11-09-2008, 10:10 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,349
Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magster";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieB";p="
Maggie, from what I'm learning reading the threads on this issue with the Invicta
ceramic links, it sounds like the black and the white links probably are consistent in
color all the way through. The blue is not, it's dark gray under the blue ,and an educated guess is that the brown is that way too.
I gathered as much, but someone had asked about other brands. I did not know it was specific to blue/brown.
So, nevermind my 2 cents thrown in about Android.
By the way, you put things quite well, Charlie...
No Maggie, your imput was totally on topic. It is important to know how the other maker's
links are. I wonder if Android's colors other than white or black are solid throughout. If anyone out there knows please share.
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#98
11-09-2008, 10:33 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
The following is what is currently listed on ShopNBC website under de.scription for item# J174981 The Invicta Swiss Quartz Pro Diver Ceramic Watch.
Ceramic
The defining trait of ceramic remains its incredible hardness and durability. Despite a common misconception, ceramic is not brittle and would be extremely difficult to crack,
scratch, or otherwise damage. Ceramic also has the added benefit of retaining its look,
color, and luster over time. As a result, the use of ceramic in watches continues to gain
popularity.
I believe we had someone on this forum drop their watch and it shattered a link.
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#99
11-09-2008, 10:41 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,349
Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p="
I believe we had someone on this forum drop their watch and it shattered a link.
Yes, but that's not surprising. Ceramic will do that. It's the color coming off easier than we
were lead to believe it would, and the different color beneath, that is very unexpected and
disappointing.
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#100
11-09-2008, 10:45 PM
David Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 255
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p=" Despite a common misconception, ceramic is not brittle and would be extremely difficult
to crack, scratch, or otherwise damage.
I'd submit that any reasonable person reading this de.scription would conclude that ceramic
will NOT "do that." Dropping a watch from waist height doesn't meet the standard of
"extremely difficult."
David
Quark1971 Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Here you go Wing himself posted here about his ceramic colors with a picture of the blue
and brown. Let the picture in this post speak for itself
http://www.watchgeeks.net/viewtopic.php?t=16156 __________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own
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#102
11-10-2008, 10:54 AM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Posts: 683 Real Name: John
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
After seeing Wing's pictures of his ceramic links, apparently there exists more than one
standard in the industry! I once again invite anyone from Invicta or ShopNBC to answer the
question. Why was this watch grossly misrepresented and as of this date no action taken to
correct or even properly address this issue?
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#103
11-10-2008, 11:13 AM
watchcollector1968 Senior Member Super Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Kristie generously allowed me to destroy an extra link from her white Invicta ceramic...it is one color all the way through...so at least we know the white is what they say it is.
Here it is broken...the black you see is crud off the hammer and not part of the link.
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#104
11-10-2008, 12:16 PM
new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p="
After seeing Wing's pictures of his ceramic links, apparently there exists more than one standard in the industry! I once again invite anyone from Invicta or ShopNBC to answer
the question. Why was this watch grossly misrepresented and as of this date no action
taken to correct or even properly address this issue?
I'm glad I waited before giving my wife her watch, it is going back ASAP! After seeing Wings
photos I'll probably pick an Andriod up for her. At least I know the link is the same color all
the way through, as stated!
Everyone who saw the Invicta shows concerning the ceramic watches clearly heard that
they were "the same color all the way through" and there in lays there in lies the problem.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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#105
11-10-2008, 12:34 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 12,349 Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I'm glad I waited before giving my wife her watch, it is going back ASAP! After seeing
Wings photos I'll probably pick an Andriod up for her. At least I know the link is the same color all the way through, as stated!
I don't blame you. If I would have known that the color didn't go all the through the blue links as we were told it did, there is no way I would have bought the watch. I would have
gotten an Android.
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#106
11-10-2008, 01:59 PM
jjeckelxz5 Senior Member
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i'm glad i got the black and white instead of the black and blue, but i dont think i'll be buying
another ceramic invicta
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#107
11-10-2008, 02:19 PM
Quark1971 Senior Member True WatchGeek
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,953 Real Name: Quarkie aka John
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikfix";p="
After seeing Wing's pictures of his ceramic links, apparently there exists more than one
standard in the industry! I once again invite anyone from Invicta or ShopNBC to answer
the question. Why was this watch grossly misrepresented and as of this date no action
taken to correct or even properly address this issue?
I'm glad I waited before giving my wife her watch, it is going back ASAP! After seeing
Wings photos I'll probably pick an Andriod up for her. At least I know the link is the same color all the way through, as stated!
Everyone who saw the Invicta shows concerning the ceramic watches clearly heard that
they were "the same color all the way through" and there in lays there in lies the problem.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Return it and get her an android. They are great watches for the money and I am sure your
wife would love the ceramic abyss or fantasy. __________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own
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#108
11-10-2008, 04:02 PM
watchluv Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
The ceramic has been my last Invicta I bought and I just don't know about buying from a
company that the CEO misrepresents his products for a buck. __________________
Time to Watch as Time Passes Away
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#109
11-10-2008, 06:29 PM
new2watches Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluv";p="
The ceramic has been my last Invicta I bought and I just don't know about buying from a
company that the CEO misrepresents his products for a buck.
I hear ya and know where you are coming from. My conundrum is that I really do like
Invictas. When you get one with no issues it is a great buy for the buck most of the time. I recently jumped on the Reserve Speedways @ 249.00 it is a fantastic buy!
Too much dice rolling with what you'll get sometimes between Invicta and SNBC. I've had
more good than bad but have been burnt more than I like. I must be a glutton for
punishment or an addict because I keep going back!
I feel like others here do, that the product was misrepresented numerous times on the air.
We represent such a small percentage of Invicta buyers, JMO of course, that I sincerely
doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
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#110
11-10-2008, 06:48 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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Posts: 15,180 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I sincerely doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links replaced
free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
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#111
11-10-2008, 06:59 PM
new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I sincerely doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links
replaced free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
I am speaking solely for myself here, IMO the best thing he could possibly do is simply make
a statement...
I gave information on the air about the color being the same all the way through. This was
based upon my knowledge I had at the time. Obviously the are some colors that this is not the case. I apologize for any of you who feel that this product was misrepresented and we
will do our best to rectify any issues you may have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p="
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links replaced free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
This is just a recent development that you posted and hopefully he follows through.
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#112
11-10-2008, 07:00 PM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I sincerely doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links replaced free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
Hi Jim,
Will the links be the same color thru and thru or be the same ones that already come with
the watch? I am glad to see that Eyal is willing to replace the links. That is a good thing.
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#113
11-10-2008, 07:14 PM
watchluv Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Is this lifetime replacement or as long as you own the watch? __________________
Time to Watch as Time Passes Away
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#114
11-10-2008, 07:47 PM
Quark1971 Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 6,953 Real Name: Quarkie aka John
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGILLER";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I sincerely doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links
replaced free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
Hi Jim,
Will the links be the same color thru and thru or be the same ones that already come with
the watch? I am glad to see that Eyal is willing to replace the links. That is a good thing.
Jim posted a reply here that show answer your question
http://watchgeeks.net/viewtopic.php?...6fd9a246e34953
I would comment some more but my father always told me if you have nothing nice to say
don't say anything
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#115
11-10-2008, 10:16 PM
Rodeoboy Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
gee how convenient, I can take my watch apart and put in new blue links every year for the
next 20 years. Ya cant fix the problem by replacing with the same type of links. The new links need to be solid blue thorough and thorough...ya know ...the way I thought it was
originally. the way the watch was described over and over. My Android ceramic is absolutely
scratch and wear free and I wear both watches the same amount and under the same
conditions.
Taking ownership of the de.scription error is not happening in a forthright and timely
manner. I for one am done with Invicta until an apology is issued and solid color links are
sent to me. There are tons of other watches out there that will make me happy.
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#116
11-11-2008, 05:34 AM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark1971";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by RGILLER";p="
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by new2watches";p="
I sincerely doubt anything will be done, especially based upon Lalo's response.
"Lalo's response" was that anyone having any issue with the watches will have links replaced free of charge. I don't know what more he could possibly do.
Hi Jim,
Will the links be the same color thru and thru or be the same ones that already come
with the watch? I am glad to see that Eyal is willing to replace the links. That is a good
thing.
Jim posted a reply here that show answer your question
http://watchgeeks.net/viewtopic.php?...6fd9a246e34953
I would comment some more but my father always told me if you have nothing nice to say
don't say anything
Thanks for the link. It appears that some of us struck a nerve with Mr. Skelton......Roy
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#117
11-11-2008, 06:27 AM
timeseeker WatchGeeks Moderator
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Posts: 2,337
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I certainly see all viewpoints on this matter. I own a Blue/Black Ceramic diver as well and to
be honest I was caught off guard with the results of the "scratch test. But being a owner of
many Invicta watches ranging from a 99.00 Pro-Diver to a much, much more expensive
COSC Dragon Lupah and different price ranges in between I must say that for 99.999% of my Invicta watches exceeded my expectations. I do feel that there may have been a un-
intentional gaff made by the owner of Invicta but I certainly can see how he could have
been mistaken on the make-up of this watch. With so many different styles, materials,
component's, and sheer models of watches it can be and I'm sure difficult to keep up with
them all. It very well may be that the manufacturing factory did not inform Mr. Eyal regarding this one particular color/material scheme for the Blue/Black Ceramic Diver. At this
point it is neither here or there. I find it hard to believe that this one watch causes one to
swear off Invicta watches. It would seem to me that there was a inclination not to buy
another Invicta and this is the justification for making that statement. But once again it is neither here nor there. What I find the problem is that everyone seems to expect Jim to be a
miracle worker. And when things don't go as some would like then really cheap shots are
made. IMO this is not fair. Jim has always been above board with the members of this
forum. If he has made a misstatement he is the first to address it even on live TV.
Impugning his character is stepping over the line. This does not apply to everyone who
posted in various forums on this site. I hope those of you who own this one particular model out of the hundreds of models (dare I say thousands of variations) put this in perspective. I
do sincerely hope none of you have issues with you watch ( me included) But I do hope that
if any of you do that you hold Invicta to it's warranty and pledge to correct defects ie. the
color coming off and not let this become a thorn in your side. I'm done. __________________
I collect watches.... It's my thing... it's what I do.
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#118
11-11-2008, 10:37 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,349
Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeseeker";p=" With so many different styles, materials, component's, and sheer models of watches it can
be and I'm sure difficult to keep up with them all. It very well may be that the
manufacturing factory did not inform Mr. Eyal regarding this one particular color/material
scheme for the Blue/Black Ceramic Diver.
Excellent post.
You know, if Eyal would have just stepped up and said the above you said, taken ownership of the mistake, plus sorry for mis-stating the facts, plus this is what I can and will do about
it (this part he has), then the issue would have been closed quickly and relatively painlessly.
Why he hasn't seemed to be able to get his arms around the real issues the owners of that
watch have, and answered them, I don't know (all he has to do is read a couple of threads). I know he's a very busy guy, but still, my personal opinion is he could have handled this
much better and if he had, we wouldn't be suffering through all this.
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#119
11-11-2008, 06:56 PM
bash04 Senior Member
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Location: salem oregon...the green state Posts: 869
Real Name: blake "the snake"
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
here is my 2 cents on this....I have a ceramic watch that I bought when it was brand new....I was told that it would look the same way years from now...well I've had the watch
for 6 months. 3 of the blue links have wear spots from laying the watch on my dresser...now
this is not a big deal for me cause I don't wear the watch any more, but on the other hand I
fell a little let down by this but this is just my take on the watch
[albumimg:e41d180742]4944[/albumimg:e41d180742]
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#120
11-18-2008, 11:25 AM
tom c Member Member Geek
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 84
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Ah hah!!!! Vendication, I have been away from the forum for awhile and have missed this
whole thread, until now. What I had stated way back when and shot pictured of is not just me and not just my watch. I still have not recieved my bracelet that I was told I would be
recieving for my watch. I will continue to e-mail the person who is now over my case to get
me a replacement. But, it appears that it would not matter and that the repacement will
scratch as well. These latest pictures show exactly the wear I was speaking of in the earlier post.
Thanks for proving to everyone that this particular ceramic braclet watch does scratch and
there is some other color under the glossy exterior color.
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#121
11-18-2008, 01:21 PM
DBD Junior Member New Geek
Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 12
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
LOL !!! Tom C - I remember you posting this same topic up in July with the exact same
issue. Looks like a greater number of people have now bought the watch and are encountering the problem with the baked on Blue coloring (not ceramic) coming off.
http://watchgeeks.net/viewtopic.php?t=10059&highlight=
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#122
11-18-2008, 06:18 PM
jskelton WatchGeeks Owner
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Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
Thread cleaned up.
Carry on....
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#123
11-18-2008, 07:23 PM
kissfan Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 503
eyal could or should at least offer a nice strap for a replacement to those of us who are
having problems with the blue and brown links.
replacing the links with more of the same is NOT the answer to the problem. I now have a 200.00 watch that I am ashamed to wear. My only true recourse is to say that this will be
my last invicta watch.
Sorry if this seems like piling on, but a lot of us have spent good money for a clearly
defective product with no help from the company except to offer "more of the same" as a
replacement.
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#124
11-18-2008, 08:47 PM
kissfan Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Posts: 503
I have a tungsten tide watch that I dropped putting it on one day and broke a ceramic link,
It is black all the way through. It seems the only invicta's with this problem is the one's
with the blue and brown colored links. __________________
Muscle Shoals, Alabama 35661
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#125
11-20-2008, 08:14 PM
DBD Junior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I think one thing we might be seeing on future watch shows is displaying a cross-sectioned
link to the buying public. That way we can see that the color is throughout as advertised. I
know I am going to stay away from those Blue and Brown colors until I can see the proof up front. This and other related postings about this subject have been very eye-opening to say
the least. I think I speak for a lot of people that I am grateful to those who have "sacrificed"
their ceramic links (or their wife's) to better educate the buying public.
forehire Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: RANCHO MIRAGE CA
Posts: 1,298
No one told me to take the watch off my arm before I smash it with a hammer..."wow that
hurts" Move on guys, it's just a watch band, I scrach every watch band I wear. I wear
SAIII's to work (construction) there is not a plating, coating, that won't wear off. Let alone
the hard work the watch must do at your desk.
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#127
11-20-2008, 10:35 PM
kissfan Senior Member
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Android ceramic links are the same color all the way through. Blue and brown, look in the android forum for a picture that wing took of his links broken apart to prove it !!
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#128
11-20-2008, 11:26 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 12,349 Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Yep, that's why if I go ceramic again it will definitely be Android.
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#129
11-21-2008, 08:33 AM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 816
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBD";p="
I think one thing we might be seeing on future watch shows is displaying a cross-sectioned link to the buying public. That way we can see that the color is throughout as advertised. I
know I am going to stay away from those Blue and Brown colors until I can see the proof
up front. This and other related postings about this subject have been very eye-opening to
say the least. I think I speak for a lot of people that I am grateful to those who have "sacrificed" their ceramic links (or their wife's) to better educate the buying public.
I agree with the cross-sectioned link to view for the buying public. Very good idea on this............Roy
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#130
11-21-2008, 08:53 AM
Sir Charles Senior Member Super Geek
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Posts: 1,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBack";p="
Great detective work Shawn. Your efforts are worthy of Mr. Wizard, if you're old enough to
know who that is!
(I used to sleep in the living room Saturday nights so I could watch him Sunday morning and
not wake anyone up. And I have his books. But they never let me build an ant farm. Not to
go OT mind you.)
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#131
11-21-2008, 09:00 AM
DBD Junior Member
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Posts: 12
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Kissfan - thanks for the heads up, I checked out those on the Andriod post. If I decide to pull
the trigger on a ceramic, that's definitely the route I will take.
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#132
11-21-2008, 09:50 PM
bluewail2 Member
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Location: Santa Maria, California Posts: 70
Real Name: Jay
As previously stated, my wife rubbed off her ceramic pro diver in two days working as a medical receptionist. Also, she has rubbed goldtone off two invicta watch bracelets, along
with a two-tone and one rosetone invicta watch.
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#133
11-22-2008, 06:50 AM
RGILLER Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 816
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeseeker";p="
I certainly see all viewpoints on this matter. I own a Blue/Black Ceramic diver as well and to be honest I was caught off guard with the results of the "scratch test. But being a
owner of many Invicta watches ranging from a 99.00 Pro-Diver to a much, much more
expensive COSC Dragon Lupah and different price ranges in between I must say that for
99.999% of my Invicta watches exceeded my expectations. I do feel that there may have been a un-intentional gaff made by the owner of Invicta but I certainly can see how he
could have been mistaken on the make-up of this watch. With so many different styles,
materials, component's, and sheer models of watches it can be and I'm sure difficult to
keep up with them all. It very well may be that the manufacturing factory did not inform Mr. Eyal regarding this one particular color/material scheme for the Blue/Black Ceramic
Diver. At this point it is neither here or there. I find it hard to believe that this one watch
causes one to swear off Invicta watches. It would seem to me that there was a inclination
not to buy another Invicta and this is the justification for making that statement. But once again it is neither here nor there. What I find the problem is that everyone seems to
expect Jim to be a miracle worker. And when things don't go as some would like then
really cheap shots are made. IMO this is not fair. Jim has always been above board with
the members of this forum. If he has made a misstatement he is the first to address it even on live TV. Impugning his character is stepping over the line. This does not apply to
everyone who posted in various forums on this site. I hope those of you who own this one
particular model out of the hundreds of models (dare I say thousands of variations) put
this in perspective. I do sincerely hope none of you have issues with you watch ( me
included) But I do hope that if any of you do that you hold Invicta to it's warranty and pledge to correct defects ie. the color coming off and not let this become a thorn in your
side. I'm done.
Mr. Eyal may have received a bad batch of the blue/black color ceramic links from his
vendor. However, at the same time, if this is the way the vendor sells these colors, then
perhaps, Mr. Eyal should purchase the links from the same company that Android buys from.
We all know that the Android's ceramic links have the same color all the way thru.
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#134
11-23-2008, 06:09 AM
duker20005 Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Mentor on the Lake, Ohio
Posts: 1,024
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
To my fellow geeks who have posted in this thread, this is my response. I feel that some of
my fellow geeks have taken this way too far. I understand that some of you feel like you
have been taken advantage of by Invicta. I don't think any of this was done intentionally
and there seems to be alot of bad blood because of this issue. I feel Invicta SHOULD replace these links with links that are solid colored throughout.....get them from another
vendor if it is necessary to make your customers happy! It seems to me that this is the ONLY
way to make this issue go away and to make your customers happy with their purchase! I
am especially appalled with the vicious attacks on Jim Skeleton. He has and always will be
the guy to step up and try to make things right. Kudos to Jim for trying to get a fair conclusion to this whole affair. In conclusion, I think Invicta should step up and make your
customers happy by doing the right thing and I think the geeks here should rethink their
own positions and not randomly condemn the wrong people for their plight with Invicta!
This is my first and LAST post on this subject! I only hope that my fellow geeks don't take offense to what I have posted here.
Earl
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#135
11-23-2008, 08:17 AM
mikeynd Senior Member
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I agree with Earl 100%,It has gone on long enough..
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#136
11-23-2008, 08:52 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,349
Real Name: Charlie
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
You guys just had something to say and you said it and nobody has said anything to try to keep you from saying it. Your thoughts and opinions are respected, even by those who
disagree.
If other geeks with opinions different than yours feel the need to say what's on their minds,
and it's within forum guidelines, I see no reason why they should be told to keep it to
themselves. This issue has slowed down to a mere trickle of what it was and the words aren't harsh. Just ignore it if it bothers you, but let's try to keep this a place where people
feel they have the freedom to discuss things within the established boundries.
The mods/owners have handled it perfectly.
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#137
11-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Sir Charles Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,744
As an observer, it seems that Eyal, along with everyone else, was caught by surprise on this
one. Jim contacted Eyal, and it seems Eyal contacted his supplier and reported back which
what he was told.
As an observer, Eyal did not accept responsibility for saying the colors were solid when they
were not, even if that is what the supplier told him.
As an observer, Eyal did not accept responsibility as he should have, for correcting the problem. He still can, by stating that he will work with the supplier on getting replacement
blue/brown links with colors that do not wear off. Since everyone is not reporting problems,
it is hopefully just a manufacturing defect. The issue does affect the resale value of the
watch, so it is significant.
A sticky issue, but that is part of running a business.
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#138
11-23-2008, 06:57 PM
kissfan Senior Member
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"The issue does affect the resale value of the watch, so it is significant." Are you kidding? who in their right mind would want to buy a used 200.00 watch with the
links changing colors on it?
Once I decided we were fighting a losing battle here with Eyal and Invicta, I pulled my
ceramic bracelet off and put on a nice black alligator strap at my own expense so that I could at least still wear the watch That I paid my hard earned money for. I too will no longer
buy Invicta's because of the way this matter has been (or NOT been ) handled by them. Not
to mention the fact that their customer service dept. is getting worse by the day !!
I have all ready sold off most of the 36 I had. You can not replace a defective part with the same defective part and expect it to be ok and just move on leaving your customers hanging
..waiting on a solution that may not be coming. Which sure seems to be what is happening
to us here.
I'm sure my comments will tick off a few people here but this is just the way I feel about it.
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#139
11-26-2008, 01:31 PM
qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver
Posts: 683 Real Name: John
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Just to keep everyone informed as I promised. I took Eyal up on his offer to address
technical questions and sent Team Invicta a PM. It has been opened by whomever is in
charge of monitoring PM's on this forum. I asked that it be passed on to Eyal. To this date
there has been no response. Since Eyal did mention that the same process was used by other companies such as Rado etc... I found the following regarding Rado Ceramica watches.
It's food for thought none the less and I thought I would share it.
Innovations in Rado Ceramica Watches In keeping with the Rado tradition, all Ceramica watches are made out of scratch-proof
materials. The crystal is made from sapphire crystal, an industry standard, and the rest of
the watch is covered with high-tech proprietary ceramic materials resistant to scratching.
You will also enjoy the innovative combination of digital and analog movement as a choice in
this series of watches.
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#140
11-26-2008, 02:02 PM
Watch Noob Banned Master WatchGeek
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Posts: 2,545
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
Guys, if I may offer my opinion on this matter. Put yourself in Eyal's place. He has a watch model that has exhibited some issues with the ceramic links not being a solid color all the
way through as he has stated many times live on TV. Eyal has offered to replace any
defective links free of charge. Very smart in my opinion. Should he admit that he misspoke
on the solid color all the way though? In my personal opinion YES. If I was his PR Agent - Hell NO. If he admits he misspoke even here on the tiny audience of WatchGeeks, someone
could very well copy and paste his response all across the Net and have thousands of
dissatisfied customers wanting refunds. I feel sorry for the people that purchased this watch
and have experienced issues. My advice would be to try and get a full set of solid white or black links (I think we established those are truly solid colors). If you are still holding your
breath that Eyal will admit guilt in his on Air presentations, you better get a scuba tank. Best
of luck to all.
p.s. I also don't think anyone should put Jim on the spot to elaborate on this issue. Jim's not about to step on his you know what as he'd catch hell from both SNBC and Invicta.
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#141
11-26-2008, 02:35 PM
qwikfix Senior Member
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Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
My advice would be to try and get a full set of solid white or black links (I think we
established those are truly solid colors).
I agree with you and maybe an all black bracelet would look good with the blue bezel. I just
have had no response as of yet from Rebecca or Team Invicta. And the gentleman who was
promised a new bracelet in July has not received anything to my knowledge.
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#142
11-26-2008, 06:40 PM
Rbluz Senior Member Veteran Geek
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I met some guys in the Oklahoma City jail years ago that could break, scratch, mar, twist ,
stain , flatten and just basically just destroy just about anything you put in front of them....very bad men. My point these are watches are made to be worn by people like us
with lotsa class
Bluz
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#143
11-26-2008, 07:05 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbluz";p="
I met some guys in the Oklahoma City jail years ago that could break, scratch, mar, twist
, stain , flatten and just basically just destroy just about anything you put in front of them....very bad men. My point these are watches are made to be worn by people like us
with lotsa class
Bluz
Uhhh, very interesting point...
Jimi was from Seattle
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#144
11-27-2008, 09:47 AM
Sir Charles Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieB";p=" Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbluz";p="
I met some guys in the Oklahoma City jail years ago that could break, scratch, mar,
twist , stain , flatten and just basically just destroy just about anything you put in front of them....very bad men. My point these are watches are made to be worn by people like us
with lotsa class
Bluz
Uhhh, very interesting point...
Jimi was from Seattle
...were it not for the fact that the color is wearing off with normal use.
I agree, this thread might be going too far. If it really is the case that some people got
watches with a defective batch of links (which seems to be the case since everyone is not
having problems) and if Eyal is offering to replace those links (which seems to be the case)
and if those links are delivered in a timely fashion (yet to be seen) then, hey, I guess that is
all that will be done. __________________
If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker. -- Albert Einstein
URWERK UR-202 • Seiko Monster
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#145
11-28-2008, 07:24 AM
Rodeoboy Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Posts: 573
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
I am going to ask for all black center links, It is the least they can do. Replacing a fast
wearing part with another fast wearing part is nonsense. I like my watches to always look
nice. I will let you know about response and how long it takes.
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#146
12-01-2008, 09:50 AM
rolexconfuse Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 226
Re: Invicta ceramic scratch test results
The point isn't so much as whether the link gets replaced or not. Offering to replace
something that's been advertised "wrong" is just "clean up".
The point here is that a number of people purchased the watch under the impression that
the color on the ceramic was through and through. A false impression....
If I sold you a watch and told you that it was a Swiss made through and through but it wasn't, won't you be angry? Especially if that was the sole reason that made you want to
buy it?
I know Eyal won't do it but he needs to step up to the plate and just address why he says one thing when it's not.
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#147
04-23-2009, 07:11 PM
holzapfel Senior Member
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Eyal, just stated on air regarding J175726, again, that the ceramic links are the solid color
all the way through and seemed to be referring to this thread when talking about the ceramic links, I'd be curious to know if any women here bought this watch?
I wouldn't normally dredge up an old thread, but Eyal was VERY confident in the way he was
talking about his ceramic links & it reminded me of this thread. __________________
°·» Hólzápƒèl «·°
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man
shall say to his assailant, "If I Live, I will kill you, If I Die, You are forgiven." Such is the Rule
of Honor. ---------OMERTA
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#148
04-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Kahuna Cowboy Senior Member Super Geek
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Posts: 2,311 Real Name: Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by holzapfel
Eyal, just stated on air regarding J175726, again, that the ceramic links are the solid color all the way through and seemed to be referring to this thread when talking about the
ceramic links, I'd be curious to know if any women here bought this watch?
I wouldn't normally dredge up an old thread, but Eyal was VERY confident in the way he
was talking about his ceramic links & it reminded me of this thread.
My GF bought this watch during Spring Forward in blue. Let me see if I can sweet talk her
into taking a hammer to one of the extra links.
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#149
04-23-2009, 07:19 PM
holzapfel Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy
My GF bought this watch during Spring Forward in blue. Let me see if I can sweet talk her into taking a hammer to one of the extra links.
That would be sweet! __________________
°·» Hólzápƒèl «·°
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man
shall say to his assailant, "If I Live, I will kill you, If I Die, You are forgiven." Such is the Rule
of Honor. ---------OMERTA
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#150
04-23-2009, 07:20 PM
CharlieB Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy My GF bought this watch during Spring Forward in blue. Let me see if I can sweet talk her
into taking a hammer to one of the extra links.
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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 18,212 Real Name: Brad
This thread has been dead for almost 5 months. Unless and until
someone has new relevant information - kindly let it rest in peace. If
it simply starts up again from where it left off, it will most likely be
locked. __________________
If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!
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#152
04-23-2009, 07:22 PM
ACE Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 6,829 Real Name: Louis
This needs to be tested in space
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#153
04-23-2009, 07:23 PM
Pepper Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,625
I'm not sure how to find the thread on the new system but In doing some research when I
first joined WG I ran across a thread that was having this same debate and the pictures there made it very clear that the color does not go all the way through. I'm sure the thread
is still there if you can figure out how to find it.
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#154
04-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Pepper Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback
This thread has been dead for almost 5 months. Unless and until
someone has new relevant information - kindly let it rest in peace.
There have been a lot of new members in the past five months that may be very interested
in this information. I'm just sayin. Pepper
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#155
04-23-2009, 07:25 PM
holzapfel Senior Member
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Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 827
Real Name: Chris
What I'm asking for is new information. Eyal specifically brought this up on air 10 minutes
ago, he even talked about using a hammer to try and break one of the links. Sounded link
he was challenging what this thread said, that the links are not the solid color the entire way through. If he hadn't brought it up on air it would still be dead.
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°·» Hólzápƒèl «·°
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man
shall say to his assailant, "If I Live, I will kill you, If I Die, You are forgiven." Such is the Rule
of Honor. ---------OMERTA
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#156
04-23-2009, 07:28 PM
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper There have been a lot of new members in the past five months that may be very interested
in this information. I'm just sayin.
Pepper
We have no idea what Inivicta has or hasn't done regarding ceramic links since last
year, and rehashing old news is a waste of resources. Unless "new and relevant"
information can be added to the discussion, this thread needs to be left alone.
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#157
04-23-2009, 07:31 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
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Posts: 12,349 Real Name: Charlie
I think he scrapped the links that were not solid color all the way through, and just uses
ones that are now. I noticed that color blue link that was the culprit isn't on any of the
ceramic watches being offered these days (I've kept an eye out for it).
Eyal's smart enough not to get tangled in that web again. I'm pretty sure the links he's using
now are solid.
But WTH, break away guys...if nothing else it's theraputic! __________________
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#158
04-23-2009, 07:32 PM
Red Ryder Senior Member
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WooHoo, John,
You're back and already adding to the momentum & mood of Wg. Welcome. You were so missed.
Ruthie
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#159
04-23-2009, 07:34 PM
risingwolf Senior Member Senior Geek
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Location: Western Montana Posts: 461
Real Name: Dave
Mohs hardness scale
Remember that a mineral can be hard but also brittle. Diamonds are a 10 on the Mohs scale
but can break along their cleavage planes.
How many of you remember the "very old" Ford commercial where a jeweler was riding in
the back seat with a diamond and cleaving tools trying to cut a priceless diamond. But the ride was so smooth he was able to cut the stone to perfection. I don't know if it sold more
Fords but it was interesting.
Quiz time- Tgcfaoqtcd is??? (think back to your earth science class)
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#160
04-23-2009, 07:40 PM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 12,349 Real Name: Charlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingwolf Remember that a mineral can be hard but also brittle. Diamonds are a 10 on the Mohs
scale but can break along their cleavage planes.
How many of you remember the "very old" Ford commercial where a jeweler was riding in
the back seat with a diamond and cleaving tools trying to cut a priceless diamond. But the
ride was so smooth he was able to cut the stone to perfection. I don't know if it sold more Fords but it was interesting.
Quiz time- Tgcfaoqtcd is??? (think back to your earth science class)
As I recall he was trying to circumcise a p&nis wasn't he???
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#161
04-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Flyback Senior Member
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Goodnight Gracie . . .
EDIT: Last word from Jim on August 31, 2009 to an owner asking about wear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskelton Yes, this is an old issue relating only to this batch of ceramic divers. Eyal agreed to
replace ANY problem links. Email Rebecca and she will get you squared away under
warranty.
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