jackson v aeglive - transcripts - june 25th - gordon matheson sports med-conflict of interest...

7/28/2019 Jackson V AEGlive - Transcripts - June 25th - Gordon Matheson sports med-conflict of interest testimony

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JACKSON V AEG LIVE June 25th2013

Dr. Gordon Matheson

(Director of Sport !e"icine# St$nfor" %ni&erit' $n" Confict of Interet E)pert*

+$intiff, E)pert -itne.

Continued direct examination ! "illiam #loss$

/. Dr. !$theon# hen e roe 'eter"$'# e ere t$in $out one of the e4$i $ p$rt of the

troue $t the 6ront ch$in. 7ou re4e4er th$t8

A. 7e.

/. An" I thin 99 Dr$in 'our $ttention to e)hiit 30:# i th$t here e ere hen e roe8

A. 7e.

/. An" hich e4$i# pecific$'# ere e in the 4i""e of t$in $out8
http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/8530


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A. ;hi $ the e4$i fro4 e" th$t confict of interet $n" i$ i i4port$nt.

/. A riht. No# i there $n'thin ee th$t 'ou "i" not t$ $out 'eter"$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e4$teri$ for the purpoe of 'our opinion in thi e4$i8

A. 7e. ;here, one 4ore thin. It, $t the &er' einnin of the e4$i here it $'? enny, it iscritical that neither you, me or anyone around this show become amateur !sychiatrists or

!hysicians. So h$t th$t in"ic$te# to 4e# i $ in" of puh$c# hich i $ re4in"er th$t e h$&e $ph'ici$n# Dr. !urr$'# $n" e "on,t nee" o4eo"' ee reiterin their opinion or rinin for$r"infor4$tion re$te" to !r. J$con, he$th.

/. -hen 'ou ue the or" puh$c# h$t "o 'ou 4e$n ' th$t8

A. +uh$c i $ or" I ou" ue to 4e$n $ "eire to contro or "eire to fiter the infor4$tion.

/. An" h$t i the i4pic$tion of puh$c in $ confict9of9interet en&iron4ent8

A. ;he i4pic$tion 4e$n it pre&ent or i4it the ph'ici$n, in"epen"ent "eciion94$in for 4e"ic$he$th9re$te" iue.

/. An" for the purpoe of 'our opinion# 'ou re&iee" &$riou piece of teti4on'# "epoitiontr$ncript@ i th$t correct8

A. 7e.

/. An" "i" 'ou re&ie !r. +hiip, teti4on' re$r"in $ teephone c$ he h$" ith Dr. !urr$'hort' efore thi8

A. 7e.

Ms. %teins$ &'ection. (a)ue as to testimon!. *s he re+errin) to deposition or trial,

-ud)e$ %ustained.

/. -e# "i" 'ou re&ie oth8 -h$t "i" 'ou re&ie# Dr. !$theon8

A. I re&iee" !r. +hiip, "epoition $n" tri$ teti4on'.


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/. O$'. An" i there $n'thin $out h$t !r. +hiip $i" h$ppene" "urin the teephone c$ ithDr. !urr$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$ 99 ithDr$n. I there $n'thin $out !r. +hiip,teti4on' re$r"in the teephone c$ ith Dr. !urr$' on June 20th th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$to $n' of 'our opinion8

A. -e# I ou" $' it, not t'pic$ or it, not "eir$e in $ confict9of9interet itu$tion for o4eone

ie $ te$4 oner or pro"ucer to e co44unic$tin "irect' ith $ ph'ici$n.

/. -h'8

A. ec$ue it $"" to the potenti$ confict of the "octor, in"epen"ent "eciion94$in. It i infuence"or &io$te" in o4e c$p$cit'.

/. An" "i" 'ou 99 i there 99 et, o $c to e)hiit 30:. ;here, $nother e4$i up $t the top fro4 !r.+hiip to to peope 99 three peope# I,4 orr'# $t B? p.!. Di" 'ou re' on th$t for the purpoe of$n' of 'our opinion8

A. 7e# I "i". ;hi e4$i $'# fro4 !r. +hiip? This guy is really starting to concern me.

/.


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A. ;here $re e&er$ e4$i in thi euence. ;he firt th$t I ue" for 4' opinion $ fro4 JohnFouh"$h to


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the f$ct th$t there, no "i$noi preent $t the point hen thee he$th concern $re ein r$ie"# ut'et !r. J$con i ein put $c into rehe$r$# thoe $toether $re $ concern.

/. No# if 'ou o to the ne)t e4$i on e)hiit 31B# !r. Gon$$re repon"in to !r. +hiip# 'ou eeth$t8

A. 7e# I "o. ;hi i fro4 !r. Gon$$re to !r. +hiip# $n" it $'? He is not a !sychiatrist 99

/. If 'ou o "on 99

A. I,4 orr'.

/. 99 $ctu$'# to the one eo th$t.

A. 7e. ;hi i !r. Gon$$re to !r. +hiip? Take the doctor with you. #hy wasn't he there lastnight%

/. An" i there $n'thin 4$teri$ $out th$t ith re$r" to 'our confict9of9interet $n$'i8

A. 7e. ;o 4e# it, 4$teri$ ec$ue !r. Gon$$re i $'in# ;$e the "octor ith 'ou. in otheror"# it, $nother in"ic$tion of the eroion of the in"epen"ent "eciion94$in of the "octor.

/. -h'8 C$n 'ou =ut e)p$in th$t8

A. -e# to ;$e the "octor ith 'ou i $'in e $nt the "octor 99 o e,&e $re$"' in"ic$te" ine4$i th$t the "octor h$ een rouht into the fo". -e $nt the "octor to co4e ith u to thi4eetin 4e$n th$t e $nt to h$&e o4e input in the 4e"ic$ "eciion94$in. -e $nt to infuenceth$t co44unic$tion or con&er$tion. -e $nt to e p$rt of it.

/. Cou"n,t it =ut e th$t if 99 "i" 'ou coni"er it cou" e =ut et infor4$tion fro4 the "octor $outh$t the proe4 i8

A. -e# th$t in $n" of itef 4$' not e $ppropri$te.

/. -h'8

A. ec$ue it ti cou" e interference ith the "octor, "eciion94$in. ;he "octor $i" $t one point#I $nt to ho" !r. J$con out of rehe$r$# $n" th$t, $ 4e"ic$ "eciion. So to ;$e the "octor ith'ou in"ic$te th$t AEG ti inten" to 4$n$e the "octor, $cti&itie.

/. No# in the conte)t# I," ie to =ut $ 'ou $out hether the conte)t of thi p$rticu$r erie ofe&ent 4$tter. An" 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' $out the fin$nci$ confict of interet th$t Dr. !urr$' $un"er. Doe th$t f$ctor 99 "oe th$t conte)t enter into 'our opinion re$tin to thi e4$i8

A. It "oe# in the ene th$t Dr. !urr$' $ conficte". An" hi confict $ eteen 4eetin the nee"th$t AEG reuire" 99 h$" for hi4 or reuire"# $n" 4eetin the he$th nee" of !r. J$con. ut henee"e" to 99 he nee"e" to honor the contr$ct th$t he h$" et up toether ith AEG ' "oin h$t the'$nte"# $n" th$t p$ce" hi4 in confict# $n" he $ ie' to e infuence" ' th$t interet ec$ue he$nte" hi contr$ct to not e ter4in$te".


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/. No# i there $nother e4$i on the top of e)hiit 31B th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$8

A. 7e. ;h$t, the one fro4 +$u Gon$$re to


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eie&e thee to e4$i $re 4$teri$ to 'our opinion8

A. -e# in the firt e4$i fro4 !r. +hiip to !r. Orte$# he i re$' $'in# Don,t e $ "octor. -e,&eot thi co&ere". Dr. !urr$' i our "octor. 7ou "on,t $nt to e $n $4$teur p'chi$trit or ph'ici$n.An" then $ fe 4inute $ter# he, $'in# Dr. !urr$' i not $ p'chi$trit. I,4 not ure ho effecti&ehe c$n e. -hich# to 4e# in"ic$te !r. +hiip i on"erin hether the' h$&e the riht "octor#

hether he c$n e effecti&e. So to 4e# thoe $re to &er' "ifferent opinion# ec$ue the one th$t oeto !r. Orte$ $'in# &on't worry, we've got this covered, you don't need to worry about this or beinvolved@ the ne)t e4$i $'# $'m not certain we have the right !erson.

/. Fo "oe th$t 4$tter for confict of interet# if it "oe8

A. -e# it ee4 to 4e


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/. No# Dr. !$theon# there i $o $nother p$rt of 99 or re$te" p$rt to the troue $t the front e4$ich$in# e)hiit 30. 7ou h$&e th$t in front of 'ou8

A. I "o. ;h$n 'ou.

/. -h$t "o 'ou un"ert$n" e)hiit 30 to e8

A. E)hiit 30 i $n e4$i fro4


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/. An"# no# thi 99 !r. +hiip h$" $tten"e" $ 4eetin ith Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. J$con ' thi ti4e.I th$t 'our un"ert$n"in8

A. 7e.

/. No# I," ie to $ $ coupe of uetion $out# in confict $n$'i# ho 99 h$t in" of eiht 'ou

put on the p$tient, interet# or the p$tient, on reuet. I t$e it th$t $ $ port 4e"icine "octor#there 4$' e $ ti4e or to hen 'ou h$&e "eci"e" th$t it $ 4e"ic$' $"&i$e to t$e $n $thete outof the $4e.

A. 7e.

/. An" the $thete "i"n,t $nt to.

A. Correct.

/. F$ th$t e&er h$ppene" to 'ou8

A. ;h$t h$ h$ppene".

/. -ithout i&in $n' n$4e or pri&$c' iue# c$n 'ou =ut i&e u $n e)$4pe8

A. ;h$t, $ co44on e)$4pe. ;here $re &er' fe $thete in the 4i""e of the $4e $n" he$t of the$tte ho $nt to e re4o&e" fro4 th$t# for $ nu4er of re$on? ;he',&e prep$re" for the $4e@ itcou" e $ &er' i4port$nt $4e to the4. ;heir f$4i' 4iht e &iitin $n" in the t$n" for the firtti4e. It cou" e th$t the' fin$' 4$"e the roter# ec$ue the p$'er $o&e the4 i in=ure"# $n" the'$nt to pro&e the4e&e@ it cou" e it, o4ethin th$t ou" infuence their ch$nce for in&o&e4entin $ hiher e$ue the ne)t 'e$r. ut there $re ot $n" ot of preure to not e re4o&e" i44e"i$te'fro4 the $4e.

/. An" h$&e 'ou 99 h$t i the ph'ici$n, roe in th$t circu4t$nce8

A the ph'ici$n, roe i to "o the riht thin oth in the hort9ter4 $n" for on9ter4 he$th $n" 4$ethe "eciion $e" on thoe f$ctor.

/. F$&e 'ou e&er t$en $n $thete out of $ $4e $n" he or he ot 4$" $t 'ou8

A. 7e. Aoute'.

/ h$&e 'ou e&er t$en $n $thete out of the $4e ho ot 4$" $t 'ou ho o4eti4e $ter h$" thech$nce to co44unic$te ith 'ou $ter $$in8

A. 7e. I,&e h$" etter fro4 $thete 4onth $n" 'e$r $ter# $'in# th$n 'ou for t$in 4e out of the$4e.

/. -h'8

A. ec$ue the' "i"n,t h$&e the perpecti&e $t the ti4e the in=ur' occurre".


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/. No# if 99 I $nt 'ou to $u4e# for the purpoe of 'our opinion# th$t Dr. !urr$' $ hire" 'AEG Li&e $t the ehet of !ich$e J$con. If th$t 99 if the hirin of Dr. !urr$' $ "one $t the ehetof !r. J$con# "oe th$t $ffect 'our opinion8

A. No.

/. -h'8

A. ec$ue AEG Di"n,t h$&e to cre$te th$t $rr$ne4ent. ;he' choe to et up th$t tructure# $n" the'"i"n,t h$&e to "o th$t.

/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in $ to ho uti4$te' $ oin to e reponie for Dr. !urr$',fee if the re$tionhip h$" continue" $n" the tour h$" continue"8

A. !' un"ert$n"in i th$t AEG, cot th$t ere fronte" ou" e recoupe" hen re&enue c$4e infro4 the tour.

/.


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A. 7e# I h$&e.

/. An" there i $nu$e in th$t th$t 99 here Dr. !urr$' $' th$t he i pro&i"e hih u$it' 4e"ic$c$re@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. -h' i $ non4e"ic$ pro&i"er 99 ithDr$n. Fo "oe th$t $nu$e $ffect 'our opinion $ to $confict9of9interet $n$'i# if it "oe8

A. It "oen,t $ffect 4' opinion.

/. -h'8

A. ec$ue $thouh e e)pect $ profeion$ to oper$te $t $ cert$in e&e# hen p$ce" in $ confict9of9interet en&iron4ent# the ree$rch ho th$t their =u"4ent i often $ffecte".

/. If $ non4e"ic$ co4p$n' chooe 99 ee to hire $ ph'ici$n to tre$t $ thir" peron# $re there tepth$t the co4p$n' c$n t$e to re"uce the ri of confict of interet8

A. 7e# there $re.

/. Jut u44$ri>e the4# if 'ou c$n.

A. ;he firt thin th$t I ou" "o# if I $ $ co4p$n' ie th$t# i I ou" o to $ cre"ie 4e"ic$intitution th$t $re$"' e)it th$t "oe thi. 6or e)$4pe# I t$e" to o4eone fro4 the %CLA !e"ic$center to tr' to put toether $ te$4 th$t ou" pro&i"e co4preheni&e he$thc$re. I ou"n,t nece$ri'tr' to "e&eop th$t e)pertie ithin the co4p$n' hen it $re$"' e)it eehere.

/. -e# ho "oe th$t re"uce the ri of confict of interet8

A. It 4e$n th$t the 4e"ic$ "eciion $re in"epen"ent. ;he',re not tie" to the pro"ucer.

/. An" "o 'ou ee 99 $e" on 'our re&ie of $n' of the e&i"ence in thi c$e# "o 'ou ee $n' effort $t$ to 4iti$te confict of interet8

A. No# I "on,t.

Mr. #loss$ * hae no other 4uestions. han !ou !our honor.

-ud)e$ ll ri)ht. han !ou. Cross examination.

Ms. %teins$ es !our honor.

Cross examination ! -essica %teins$


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/. Goo" 4ornin# Dr. !$theon.

A. Goo" 4ornin.

/. I,4 oin to t$rt to"$' $cin up $ itte it to "e$ ith o4e of the thin e t$e" $out

'eter"$'. An" 'ou t$e" 'eter"$' $out the i"e$ of fin$nci$ confict@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou tetifie" th$t o4eone ho nee" $ =o i 4ore ie' to $ct unethic$' th$n o4eone ho"oen,t nee" $ =o@ i th$t riht8

A. I thin there, the $4ount of 4one' in the fin$nci$ confict or in the p$'4ent $ e $ the nee"th$t peron h$# correct.

/. So th$t, $ 'e# peope ho nee" =o $re 4ore ie' to e unethic$# $t e$t $ itte it# th$npeope ho "on,t nee" their =o8

A. +eope ho nee" inco4e# 'e.

/. ut# o&iou'# the &$t 4$=orit' of peope orin nee" the inco4e fro4 their =o@ riht8

A.


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/. 7ou "on,t eie&e the' "o8

A. I "on,t eie&e the' "o.

/. 7ou "i"n,t h$&e to in per4iion to h$&e 'our cre"it run hen St$nfor" hire" 'ou8

A. No.

/. An" ph'ici$n ho or $t St$nfor"# the' h$&e to "icoe if the',&e een ue" for 4e"ic$4$pr$ctice ut not if the',&e een in&o&e" in o4e other in" of $uit th$t, not re$te" to 4e"ic$c$re@ riht8

A. I,4 not ure of th$t.

/. 7ou "on,t eie&e o8

A. I,4 not cert$in hether the' h$&e to "icoe other $uit th$t $re non4e"ic$ or not.

/. O$'. So 'ou "on,t no one $' or $nother8

A. I "on,t no one $' or $nother.

/. Di" $n'one $ 'ou to "icoe peron$ $uit hen 'ou ere hire"8

A. No.

/. An" "i" 'ou $' $t 'our "epoition th$t 'ou "i"n,t eie&e th$t th$t $ $ reuire4ent8

A. 7e. I "i" $' th$t# correct.

/. So St$nfor" %ni&erit'# $t e$t# "oen,t p$ce $ ot of i4port$nce on $ ph'ici$n, fin$nci$circu4t$nce efore the' hire th$t ph'ici$n8

A. +ro$' not.

/. An" !r. o# hi coe$ue# the' "i"n,t run $ cre"it chec on 'ou efore ret$inin 'our er&ice inthi c$e# "i" the'8

A. Not th$t I,4 $$re of.

/. -e# 'ou ou" h$&e to in per4iion for it. 7ou "i" not in $ per4iion for48

A. I "i" not in per4iion.

/. No# e c$n $o $ree# Dr. !$theon# riht# th$t Dr. !urr$' $n" !ich$e J$con, re$tionhipon pre"$te" $n' cont$ct eteen AEG Li&e $n" Dr. !urr$'@ riht8

A. I eie&e it $ $out three 'e$r.


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/. Dr. !urr$' t$rte" tre$tin !r. J$con $n" hi chi"ren $c in 2008

A. 7e.

/. An" in 200 !r. J$con $ p$nnin on oin to Lon"on for the ;hi I It tour8

A. 7e.

/. +$nnin to rin hi chi"ren ith hi48

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou ou" $ree th$t# in ener$# $ co4petent 509'e$r9o" 4$n i u$ifie" to chooe hi onph'ici$n@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" !r. J$con $nte" Dr. !urr$' to co4e to Lon"on ith hi4@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. Fe peron$' reuete" Dr. !urr$' $n" $e" AEG Li&e to "o $ "e$ ith hi4@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" Dr. !urr$'# unie $ te$4 "octor# $ =ut oin to e tre$tin !r. J$con $n" hi f$4i'@riht8

A. I eie&e o.

/. 7ou h$&en,t een $n' e&i"ence he $ oin to e tre$tin Kenn' Orte$8

A. Correct.

/. Or K$ren 6$'e8

A. Correct.

/. ;r$&i +$'ne8

A. Correct.

/. Noo"'@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. Other th$n !r. J$con $n" hi f$4i'8

A. 7e.


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/. No# 'ou," $o $ree ith 4e 99 $n" e, t$ $ itte it 4ore $out thi $ter 99 ut =ut $ $ 4$tterof $rith4etic# Dr. !urr$' $ oin to e p$i" 4onth'@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" if the tour ere c$ncee" or potpone"# he ou" e ter4in$te"# $ the hoe tour ou" eter4in$te"# $n" no one ou" e p$i" $n'4ore@ riht8

A.


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/. ut 'ou,re not $n e)pert in ener$ 4e"ic$ ethic outi"e of the port conte)t@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. 7ou h$&en,t un"erone $n' peci$i>e" tr$inin in 4e"ic$ ethic outi"e h$t e&er'one "oe in

4e"ic$ choo8

A. No.

/. An" 'ou h$&en,t puihe" in the $re$ of 4e"ic$ ethic# other th$n the $rtice e,&e t$e" $out $itte it to"$' in the return9to9p$' "eciion in the port conte)t@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. So 'our un"ert$n"in of 4e"ic$ ethic# it, f$ir to $'# i $e" prett' 4uch entire' on 'our orin the port in"utr' $n" thoe return9to9p$' "eciion# pu o4e iter$ture 'ou,&e re$"8

A. 7e.

/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ h' p$intiff pice" 'ou to tetif' $ $n e)pert inte$" of o4eone ith $ro$"er e)perience in 4e"ic$ ethic8

A. I thin it, ec$ue the p$r$e ere the three9$' re$tionhip.

/. An" o the' c$4e to 'ou ith thi i"e$ th$t there $ $ three9$' re$tionhip $n$oou to theport in"utr'8

A. I preu4e th$t, h' the' choe 4e# 'e.

/. An" $ of 'our opinion in thi c$e $re $e" on "ocu4ent th$t p$intiff, coune h$ pro&i"e"'ou ith@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. No# 'ou t$e" $ itte it to"$' $out the teti4on' 'ou re&iee". F$&e 'ou re&iee" $ the tri$teti4on' in thi c$e8

A. No.

/. -h$t h$&e 'ou re&iee" fro4 the tri$ th$t the =uror h$&e $ctu$' een8

A. I,&e re&iee" "etecti&e 4$rtine>, tri$ teti4on' $n" $ inif 99 pro$' h$f of !r. +hiip, tri$teti4on'.

/. F$f. Fo 4$n' "$', orth@ "o 'ou rec$8 ec$ue he $ here $ on ti4e.

A. ;hree "$'. An" $i ch$e, tri$ teti4on'. A itte it of ;r$&i +$'ne,.


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/. Fo 4uch of ;r$&i +$'ne,8

A. Aout one thir" of it.

/. An" "o 'ou no ho the portion of ;r$&i +$'ne, teti4on' th$t 'ou re&iee"# ho p$intiff"eci"e" h$t to i&e 'ou of th$t8

A. No. ;h$t $ =ut 4e re&iein $ thir" of it. I eie&e the' $&e 4e the entire tr$ncript.

/. 7ou =ut "i"n,t et throuh $ of it8

A. Correct.

/. Di" the' te 'ou to oo $t $n' p$rt in p$rticu$r8

A. No.

/. An'o"' ee,8

A. I thin th$t, $.

/. So not +$u Gon$$re8

A. Correct.

/. Not St$c' -$er8

A. Correct.

/. Not Sh$n ;re8

A. Correct.

/. No# "i" 'ou re$" $ of Detecti&e !$rtine>, teti4on'# or =ut o4e of it8

A. I re$" $ of it.

/. No# Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$'# $n" I "on,t thin 'ou, "ipute it to"$'# 'ou,re not $ne)pert in the concert in"utr'@ correct8

A. Correct.

/. An" 'ou,&e ne&er een hire" $ $ ph'ici$n for $ concert tour8

A. Correct.

/. Ne&er ore" in the entert$in4ent in"utr'# e&en outi"e of h$t 'ou coni"er 99 ep$r$tin port$n" entert$in4ent# 'ou,&e ne&er ore" in the entert$in4ent i"e of the entert$in4ent in"utr'8


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A. Correct.

/. An" for 'our opinion in thi c$e# 'ou "i" not re' on $n' 4e"ic$ puic$tion $out theperfor4in $rt# ie "$nce $n" 4uic@ riht8

A. Correct. I h$&e puihe" $out cirue "u oei# hich i $ prett' $thetic perfor4in roup.

/. So 'ou puihe" $out orin for cirue 99 or h$t "i" 'ou puih $out cirue8

A. It $ re$te" to 4e"ic$ con"ition to opti4i>e tre$t4ent $n" oo $fter their he$th.

/. Di" 'ou or ith cirue perfor4er in co4in up ith th$t puic$tion8

A. I ore" ith peope th$t ore" ith cirue# ut not "irect' in their perfor4$nce# correct.

/. So 'ou ere $ fe tep re4o&e"8

A. 7e.

/. 7ou,re not $ 4e4er of the perfor4in $rt 4e"ic$ $oci$tion# $re 'ou8

A. No.

/. An" $re 'ou f$4ii$r ith the 4e"ic$ proe4 of perfor4in $rtit =ourn$8

A. No.

/. So 'ou "i"n,t re&ie $n'thin fro4 th$t =ourn$ in prep$r$tion for teti4on' here8

A. No.

/. -h$t $out the te)too of perfor4in $rt 4e"icine8

A. No.

/. ;he =ourn$ of "$nce 4e"icine $n" cience8

A. No. I,4 $$re of the =ourn$# ut# no# I "i"n,t re&ie $n'thin.

/. So 'ou,re $in 'our opinion oe' on 'our port e)perience $n" not on the iter$ture re$tin tothe perfor4in $rt $n" 4e"icine@ i th$t f$ir to $'8

A. Cou" 'ou repe$t th$t one 4ore ti4e8

/. Sure. 7ou,re $in 'our opinion in thi c$e on 'our e)perience in the port $ren$ $n" not on theiter$ture pecific$' t$rete" $t the re$tionhip eteen 4e"icine $n" the perfor4in $rt8

A. I,4 $in 4' opinion on 4' e)perience in port 4e"icine# ut the iter$ture th$t I h$&e re$"incu"e $re$ outi"e of port 4e"icine.


19/130

/. ut nothin pecific to perfor4in $rt8 ;h$t, $ I,4 tr'in to et$ih here.

A. 7e. Correct.

/. An" in the port $ren$# 'ou h$&e $ &er' oo" un"ert$n"in of $ of the p$'er in&o&e"# $n" their

roe@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. I thin 'ou tetifie"# $t St$nfor" 'ou $ctu$' et up the 'te4 th$t h$n"e St$nfor" $thetic# $n"ho e&er'o"' or toether@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut in the concert in"utr'# 'ou "on,t h$&e th$t un"ert$n"in8

A. Correct.

/. 7ou "on,t un"ert$n"# ener$'# outi"e of thi c$e# ho tour pro"uction $re fun"e"8

A. Correct.

/. 7ou "on,t un"ert$n" h$t the i4pe roe of the pro"ucer i &eru pro4oter &eru tour "irector&eru the tour 4$n$er# $ of thoe "ifferent roe8

A. Correct.

/. An" 'ou on' h$&e $n $&er$e un"ert$n"in of 4e"ic$ ethic $n" confict of interet outi"e ofthe port conte)t@ riht8

A. !' un"ert$n"in i th$t confict of interet i $ ener$ principe# re$r"e of the fie" ithinhich it, $ppie".

/. ut 'our p$rticu$r e)pertie i ho it, $ppie" in the port conte)t8

A. Correct.

/. An" e, et to it in $ itte it# ut confict of interet co4e up in $ ot of "ifferent $re$ in4e"icine@ riht8

A. 7e# the' "o.

/. 6or int$nce# o4eti4e $ p$rent 4iht $nt $ tre$t4ent for $ 4inor chi"# $n" the chi" $nt $"ifferent tre$t4ent# $n" the "octor h$ $ confict there8

A. 7e.

/. Or $ ph$r4$ceutic$ co4p$n' 4iht offer free $4pe of their pro"uct to i&e to p$tient# $n" $


20/130

"octor 4iht e 4ore incine" to i&e out the free &erion r$ther th$n $ p$' &erion of 4e"icine@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" thee in" of interet $re co44on@ riht8

A. ;he' $re co44on.

/. Another one 4iht e $n inur$nce co4p$n'# the' on' $nt to p$' for one in" of tre$t4ent# $n"the "octor thin the p$tient nee" o4ethin ee@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. So e&er' "octor h$ to 4$n$e thee in" of confict prett' 4uch $ the ti4e8

A. ;he 4$n$e4ent i the "octor $n" the 'te4 $roun" the "octor# uu$'.

/. ut it i o4ethin th$t $ "octor h$&e to "e$ ith8

A. 7e.

/. 6or int$nce# $re 'ou $$re th$t o4e B percent of pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n h$&e re$tionhip ithph$r4$ceutic$ co4p$nie8

A. I th$t current8

/. ;h$t, $ of thi 4onth# to 4' un"ert$n"in.

A. 7e. It i hih.

/. An" o4ethin ie :2 percent of A4eric$n h$&e 4$n$e"9c$re itu$tion here the inur$nceco4p$n' h$ $ f$ir' heft' $' in their 4e"ic$ c$re8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'our un"ert$n"in of thoe in" of confict in,t etter th$n $n' other ph'ici$n@ riht8

A. +ro$' not.

/. No# 'ou $i" $ 4o4ent $o# it, the 'te4, reponiiit' to "e$ ith thi. ut it i in f$ct theph'ici$n, reponiiit' $n" the ph'ici$n, "ut' to put their p$tient firt re$r"e of the confict ofinteret@ riht8

A. It i their "ut'.

/. An" in f$ct# ph'ici$n pecific$' t$e $n o$th# $ hippocr$tic o$th# to p$ce their p$tient, ef$refirt# no 4$tter h$t other concern co4e to p$'8

A. 7e.


21/130

/. No# in o4e int$nce# $ "octor, profeion$ "ut'# the' reuire th$t "octor to reit preure $n"outi"e infuence@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. 6or int$nce# no 4$tter ho 4uch preure 'ou ere un"er $t St$nfor" %ni&erit'# 'ou ou" ne&eri&e $n $thete teroi" to oot hi perfor4$nce@ riht8

A. I ou"n,t.

/. ec$ue it ou" e unethic$8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou h$&e to 4$e thoe in" of "eciion# e&en if 'ou 4iht fee preure# to 4$e the $thetethe et $thete he cou" e8

A. I thin the $ner to th$t i# $n'thin cou" h$ppen one ti4e. If it h$ppen o&er $n" o&er# it refect$ 'te4 th$t in,t orin correct'.

/. ut 4' uetion i th$t 'ou ou" not "o th$t8

A. I ou" ie to thin I ou"n,t# 'e.

/. 7ou ou" ne&er i&e ie$ "ru to $ p$'er8

A. Correct.

/. An" 'ou ou" ne&er "o o4ethin th$t 'ou ne 4iht e h$r4fu to $n $thete@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. No 4$tter h$t preure i put on 'ou8

A. I hope not.

/. An" thi uti4$te "ut' th$t $ "octor h$ to hi p$tient# th$t, o4ethin th$t e&er' "octor h$@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. 6or int$nce# in $ hippocr$tic o$th# "octor pro4ie not on' to "o the et for their p$tient ut $oto repect their p$tient, pri&$c'8

A. 7e.

/. ;he' pro4ie th$t if the' c$n,t fiure out $ proe4# the', c$ in the i of their coe$ue to "oh$t, et for the p$tient8


22/130

A. 7e.

/. In 4ot 99 in 4$n' &erion of the hippocr$tic o$th# "octor further pro4ie th$t the' i notnoin' $"4initer $n' h$r4fu "ru to their p$tient@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t, p$rt of h$t e&er' "octor pro4ie hen the' enter thi profeion$ fie"@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. In 'our e)perience# "o 4ot "octor t$e thi oi$tion eriou'8

A. 7e. ;he' cert$in' tr' to.

/. An" "o 'ou eie&e# th$t in ener$# the puic h$ the riht to re' on "octor t$in thi oi$tioneriou'8

A. I thin the puic, trut "epen" on $ nu4er of f$ctor# not =ut the "octor.

/. ut "o 'ou thin th$t the puic hou" e 99 h$ the riht to re' th$t "octor $re "oin h$t "octor$re uppoe" to "o8

A. 7e.

/. No# Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' th$t 'ou ent to 4e"ic$ choo in c$n$"$. ut $ $ph'ici$n pr$cticin in the %nite" St$te# 'ou,re f$4ii$r ith the $4eric$n 4e"ic$ $oci$tion@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" the' h$&e $ co"e of 4e"ic$ ethic@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t, $nother et of ethic$ ui"eine th$t $ppie to 'ou $n" $n' other "octor pr$cticin4e"icine in the %nite" St$te8

A. 7e# it i.

/. Are 'ou f$4ii$r ith the $4eric$n 4e"ic$ $oci$tion, confict9of9interet poic' $n" h$t it $'$out fin$nci$ confict of interet8

A. 7e# I,4 f$4ii$r.

/. An" in f$ct# it $'? un"er no circu4t$nce 4$' ph'ici$n p$ce their on fin$nci$ interet$o&e the ef$re of their p$tient. riht8

A. Correct.


23/130

/. An" it further $' th$t? if $ confict "e&eop eteen the ph'ici$n, fin$nci$ interet# $n" theph'ici$n, reponiiitie to the p$tient# the confict 4ut e reo&e" to the p$tient, enefit. riht8

A.


24/130

A. 7e.

/. ;heir p$tient8

A. 7e.

/. ;heir peer8

A. 7e.

/. If the' re$ the oi$tion to put their p$tient firt# no 4$tter h$t# the' h$&e eenti$' &io$te"the core purpoe of ein $ "octor@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t, =ut not h$t "octor $re uppoe" to "o un"er $n' circu4t$nce@ correct8

A. Correct.

/. An" $ p$tient i entite" to e)pect th$t $ icene" "octor i oin to honor hi profeion$ "ut' notto h$r4 the4@ riht8

A. I thin p$tient ener$' e)pect th$t# 'e.

/. An" the' h$&e the riht to e)pect th$t8

A. I ue the' h$&e the riht.

/. A o4eone ho h$ een $ peron in $ profeion$ reu$te" in"utr'# the' h$&e the riht to e)pectth$t if th$t peron h$ $ icene# if th$t peron h$ not ot th$t icene# if th$t peron h$ not eenrepri4$n"e"# the' $re $ctin in $ccor"$nce ith their profeion$ o$th8

A. 7e. I ou" ue the or" e)pect$tion r$ther th$n riht. ut# 'e# th$t i their e)pect$tion.

/. ut 'ou "on,t thin the p$tient h$ $ riht to h$&e $ "octor th$t, tre$tin hi4 $ccor"in to hiprofeion$ oi$tion8

A. I thin it, $ oo"# he$th' e)pect$tion to trut 'our "octor.

/. An" in thi c$e# Dr. !urr$' h$" $ "ut' to pro&i"e proper 4e"ic$ c$re to !r. J$con. -e c$n $reeon th$t@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" $u4in th$t !r. J$con repe$te"' reuete" propofo fro4 Dr. !urr$' $n" to" Dr. !urr$'th$t, h$t he $nte"# $n" the on' thin he cou" "o to eep# Dr. !urr$' ti &io$te" hi profeion$"utie ' i&in !r. J$con propofo@ riht8


25/130

A. I,4 not ure I c$n tetif' $ to th$t. ut# 'e# I "o thin he &io$te" hi "utie.

/. -here i the "out8

A. -e# I,4 not re$' offerin teti4on' on the 4e"ic$ c$re th$t $ pro&i"e".

/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in th$t it, $ccept$e 4e"ic$ c$re to i&e $ p$tient $nethei$ in $ ho4eettin8

A. No.

/. -ithout proper 4onitorin euip4ent8

A. No. Aoute' not.

/. So $u4in th$t $ "one# ou" 'ou $ree th$t Dr. !urr$' &io$te" hi profeion$ "utie8

A. 7e.

/. Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' th$t 'ou eie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' $ in $ peci$'co4pro4iin con"ition ec$ue he h$" $ $re $4ount of "et@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut it, not unuu$ for "octor to h$&e "et# i it8

A. -e# I thin the $4ount of "et &$rie coni"er$'.

/. ut 4ot h$&e "et8

A. +ro$'# "epen"in on their $e $n" f$4i' t$tu.

/. 7ou,re $$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t the $&er$e 4e"ic$ choo r$"u$te# =ut on r$"u$tion# h$ ne$r'H200#000 in "et8

A. C$n$"$ i 4uch e e)peni&e.

/. ;h$t# I eie&e# ir. ut in the %nite" St$te# 4e"ic$ choo i e)peni&e@ riht8

A. 7e# it i.

/. An" =ut to eco4e $ "octor cot $n $fu ot of 4one'@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" if the "octor, f$4i' i not in"epen"ent' e$th'# it, co44on to p$' for 4e"ic$ choo ith"et $n" tu"ent o$n@ riht8

A. 7e.


26/130

/. An" then $fter r$"u$tion# $ "octor 4iht t$e on 4ore "et throuh $ 4ort$e# for int$nce8

A. 7e.

/. An" if 'ou u' $ houe in c$iforni$# th$t 4ort$e i oin to e

A. +rett' $re $4ount@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. So 4$'e H200#000 for the "et# $n" 4$'e $nother 39 to H00#000 for the 4ort$e. 7ou,re $re$"'o&er h$f $ 4iion for the $&er$e "octor@ riht8

A. 7e# 'ou cou" e.

/. ut e $u4e th$t thoe "octor# "epite their inific$nt fin$nci$ ur"en# $re oin to $ctethic$' in $ccor"$nce ith their profeion$ o$th@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" it, $ctu$' in their on9ter4 interet to "o o# riht# ec$ue if the' &io$te their o$th# the'cou" oe their icene8

A. 7e.

/. An" then the' cou"n,t 4$e $n' 4one' to p$' $c thoe "et8

A. 7e.

/. No# 'ou re&iee" Detecti&e !$rtine>, teti4on'@ riht8

A. 7e# I "i".

/. So 'ou no th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" $ ot of thoe "et th$t he h$" for uite $ on ti4e efore 200@riht8

A. 7e.

/. An"# 'et# prior to 200# he h$" no hitor' of 4e"ic$ 4$pr$ctice8

A. 7e.

/. ;h$t, $ 'e8

A. ;h$t, $ 'e.

/. An" he $ icene" in four t$te to pr$ctice 4e"icine8


27/130

A. 7e.

/. An" thoe icene h$" ne&er een upen"e" in $n' of thoe four t$te@ riht8

A. Not to 4' noe"e.

/. An" to 'our noe"e# Dr. !urr$' h$" ne&er een ue" for 4$pr$ctice# either8

A. Correct.

/. No# e t$e" $ itte it e$rier $out 'our ener$ e)perience ith the concert in"utr'# $n" it,prett' 4uch >ip# riht# other th$n eein $ concert fro4 ti4e to ti4e8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou h$&e no i"e$ ho 4uch "octor ho tour ith $rtit $re cuto4$ri' p$i"@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. An" ou" it ch$ne 'our opinion $t $ in thi c$e if H150#000 per 4onth $ $ t'pic$ fee for $"octor oin on tour ith $n $rtit8

A. No# it ou"n,t ch$ne 4' opinion.

/. Jut "oen,t 4$tter one $' or $nother8

A. Not in thi c$e.

/. An" ou" it ch$ne 'our opinion $t $ in thi c$e if it $ cuto4$r' for concert &enue to h$&eon9c$ ph'ici$n to pro&i"e er&ice for $rtit if there $ $ 4e"ic$ e4erenc'8

A. No# it ou"n,t ch$ne 4' opinion.

/. Let, et into o4e of the pecific of the port in"utr' no.

A. O$'.

/. An" e,&e $re$"' t$e" $out the i"e$ th$t 'ou eie&e the to in"utrie# the concert in"utr' $n"port in"utr'# $re $n$oou@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut fro4 $ 4e"ic$ t$n"point# o4e of the ri $re $ itte it "ifferent@ riht8

A.


28/130

/. I 4e$n# et, t$e $e$# for e)$4pe. No one i oin to thro $ f$t$ $t !r. J$con, f$ce@correct8

A. ;h$t, correct.

/. An" noo"', oin to i"e t$ce hi48

A. Correct.

/. No one, oin to punch hi4 in the f$ce# ie in o)in8

A.


29/130

/. So 'ou "on,t eie&e th$t $n' of the ethic$ iue th$t co4e up in port 4e"icine $re uniue8

A. 6ro4 $n ethic$ t$n"point# i it uniue8

/. 7e.

A. 7e$h# the iter$ture often $' it, not uniue. ;he principe $re the $4e.

/. So it, 'our opinion th$t port 4e"icine i not ethic$' uniue8

A. I thin port 4e"icine "oe h$&e the iue in the three9$' re$tionhip in $ 4ore ut$nti$ $'th$n 4ot other peci$tie. I thin the pr$ctice of 4e"icine# thouh# i &er' i4i$r.

/. 7ou,re f$4ii$r ith the intern$tion$ fe"er$tion of port 4e"icine8

A. 6.I.!.S.# 69I9!9S8 7e.

/. An" the' h$&e $ co"e of ethic# too@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" their co"e of ethic pecific$' cite the "itinct ethic$ iue th$t co4e up in port 4e"icine@riht8

A. 7e.

/. It pecific$' $' th$t $ "ifferent re$tionhip e)it eteen port 4e"icine pr$ctitioner# theire4po'er# offici$ port or$ni>$tion# profeion$ coe$ue $n" the $thete8

A. 7e.

/. So $t e$t $ccor"in to 6.I.!.S.# there i o4ethin uniue $out the ethic of port 4e"icine8

A. 7e.

/. An" I," ie to ho 'ou e)hiit 13#1.

Ms. %teins$ Pam can !ou 'ust put up the headline o+ this article,

/. Dr. !$theon# the $rtice I,&e =ut h$n"e" 'ou i one th$t 'ou pro"uce" $t 'our "epoition@ correct8

A. 7e.

/. An" reie" on for 'our opinion in thi c$e8

A. I ou"n,t $'# reie" on. I coni"ere" it.

/ it $ o4ethin th$t 'ou ouht out in $"&$nce of 'our "epoition ec$ue it 4iht h$&e


30/130

infor4$tion8

A. 7e.

/. An" h$t, the tite of thi $rtice8

A. %niue ethic of port 4e"icine.

/. An" if e turn to the otto4 of th$t firt p$r$r$ph 99

A. 7e.

/. 99 c$n 'ou re$" the ne)t9to9$t entence there8

A. In the &er' firt p$r$r$ph8

/. 7e.

A. ;hi perpecti&e# then# uet o4ethin "ifferent $n" e&en uniue $out the ethic of the port4e"icine pr$ctitioner.

/. So Dr. Johnon# ho rote thi $rtice# $t e$t# thin th$t port 4e"icine i $ uniue pr$ctice8

A. 7e.

/. An" thi $rtice $o cite th$t there $re uniue iue of infor4e" conent in port 4e"icine@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t co4e fro4 thin ie o)in# here $n $thete i oin to o out $n" "eier$te' h$&eo4eone punch hi4 $ o&er hi o"'8

A. I thin the iue of infor4e" conent 99 Dr. Johnon i $ f$4i' ph'ici$n in 4inneot$# $n" the iueof infor4e" conent i re$te" to the f$ct th$t the $thete i not $e# $$'# to $ctu$' i&e $ true $n"uni$e" infor4e" conent ec$ue of other preure on the4.

/. ut h$t Dr. Johnon $' here i th$t the $thete h$ the $utono4' to 4$e "eciion re$r"in4e"ic$ tre$t4ent# pro&i"in the ph'ici$n h$ i&en the $thete $ the ree&$nt infor4$tion@ riht8

A. In theor'# h$ the $utono4'# ut $o h$ preure.

/. An" infor4e"9conent iue $re of $ re$ter iue in port 4e"icine th$n in other $re$# ec$uethe $thete i en$in in o4ethin th$t cou" re$' e h$r4fu to hi48

A. Correct.

/. An" there $re $o uniue iue re$tin to "ru ue in port 4e"icine@ riht8

A. 7e$h. Dru ue not o 4uch in the ene of recre$tion$# ut in perfor4$nce enh$nce4ent# 'e.


31/130

/. +uttin e)tr$ re" oo" ce in 99

A.


32/130

A. Di" I8

/. I thin 'ou "i".

A. O$'.

/. I thin 'ou $i" th$t !ich$e J$con $ $n$oou to $ p$'er# $n" AEG Li&e $ $n$oou tothe te$4# $n" Dr. !urr$' $ $n$oou to the te$4 ph'ici$n. Correct 4e if I,4 ron.

A. ;h$t, fine.

/. -ou" !r. J$con e $n$oou to $ of the St$nfor" foot$ te$4 for =ut the u$rter$c8

A. +ro$' =ut the et p$'er on the te$4.

/. Let, $u4e u$rter$c. Cou" e o4eo"' ee# ut for 4' $n$o'# it i i4per.

A. O$'.

/. A the te$4 "octor# 'ou ou" e reponie for tre$tin the entire te$4# not =ut the u$rter$c@riht8

A. Not $ $t once. -hen 'ou tre$t o4eone# it, one peron $t $ ti4e.

/. -e# of coure it, one peron $t $ ti4e. ut 'our oi$tion $A. ;e$4 ph'ici$n $re for $ the p$'er@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. E&en the econ" $n" thir" trin8

A. 7e.

/. E&en peope ho pr$' for four 'e$r th$t the',re oin to et on the fie" o4e "$'8

A. 7e.

/. ut Dr. !urr$'# he $ on' reponie for tre$tin !ich$e J$con@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. Fe "i"n,t h$&e oi$tion to the other 4e4er of the tour8

A. 7e.

/. An" the te$4 "octor# $ "octor ie 'ou# i choen ' $ uni&erit'@ riht8 I thin 'ou $i" th$t'eter"$'.

A. 7e.


33/130

/. A u$rter$c "oen,t et to chooe the St$nfor" %ni&erit' foot$ te$4, "octor8

A. ;h$t, correct.

/. ut Dr. !urr$' $ choen ' !ich$e J$con@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" the te$4 "octor# the "octor 'ou,re t$in $out# co4e into the p$'er, i&e hen the' =oin thete$4@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. It, not $ ont$n"in re$tionhip# ie !r. J$con h$" ith Dr. !urr$'8

A. ;'pic$' not.

/. So# for int$nce# the "octor th$t tre$te" the u$rter$c ho $ $ hih choo p$'er in,t oin tofoo hi4 $t St$nfor" $n" tre$t hi4 there8

A. Correct. -e h$&e i) "octor ith one te$4# it, not =ut one "octor. So there $re choice th$t the$thete h$ th$t the' $nt to ee.

/. So it, ie $n h.!.O.8

A. A port h.!.O.# 'e.

/. 7ou c$n ee one of thoe i) "octor# hope 'ou ie the48

A. -e# the' h$&e "ifferent $re$ of e)pertie.

/. Got 'ou. Jut for i4picit' of 4' $n$o'# c$n e tic ith one "octor8 !$'e it, $ &er' 4$te$4.

A. 7e.

/. An" then e h$&e AEG Li&e. An" in the $thetic conte)t# 'ou $i" th$t AEG Li&e ou" e$n$oou to the te$4@ i th$t riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut $ u$rter$c "oen,t "o $ contr$ct ith the te$4 to $o hi4 to p$' foot$ to e $ p$tfor4for hi4 to p$' foot$@ riht8

A. I,4 not ure I un"ert$n" th$t.

/. I $nt 'ou to $u4e for $ 4o4ent th$t !r. J$con ouht out AEG Li&e $ $ concert pro"uctionco4p$n' $n" $i"# I $nt to hire 'ou to put toether 4' tour# $n" I i p$' 'ou $ percent$e of the


34/130

profit# o e, "o $ "e$ th$t $'. th$t "oen,t h$ppen ith $ coee foot$ p$'er@ riht8 Fe "oen,tco4e to St$nfor" $n" $'# I $nt to hire St$nfor" to e 4' p$tfor4 to p$' foot$ to the or"8

A. I thin the' "o chooe# $n" the' "o et p$i" in the ene th$t the' recei&e $ cho$rhip.

/. ut the',re not 99 the uni&erit' recruit the4# the' "on,t recruit the uni&erit'@ riht8

A. I ou" $' it, 4utu$.

/. So 'ou thin the re$tionhip i e)$ct' the $4e eteen the re$tionhip of $n $"ut ho p$' for $co4p$n' to pro"uce $ tour for hi48

A. No# it, iht' "ifferent. ut I "o thin th$t the $thete $nt or ee out th$t p$rticu$r te$4.

/. ut the te$4 h$ to $ree to put hi4 in the $4e@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. It, the te$4, choice# or the "octor, choice# the $thete p$' or not@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" it, not the c$e here 99 it, not the $4e $ the c$e of $n $rtit pro"ucin $ concert tour hereit, uti4$te' the $rtit, "eciion hether or not to t$e the t$e@ riht8

A. I,4 not ure h$t the contr$ct i. 7ou,re $'in the $rtit cou" chooe not to t$e the t$e $fterfor4in $ contr$ct8

/. I,4 oin to $ 'ou to $u4e th$t the contr$ct eteen AEG Li&e $n" !r. J$con $&e riht $n"oi$tion to oth of the4.

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t if AEG Li&e c$ncee" the contr$ct hie !r. J$con $ re$"'# iin $n" $e toperfor4 it $n" $i" th$t he $nte" to t$e the t$e# th$t AEG Li&e ou" e in re$ch# ut th$t if !r.J$con "i" not ho up on the "$' the concert ere uppoe" to t$rt# th$t he ou" e in re$ch.

A. 7e.

/. ;h$t, not $ itu$tion th$t e)it ith foot$ p$'er# i it8

A. ;h$t either one# either i"e# the te$4 or the $thete# cou" re$ch8

/. No. ;h$t if the $thete 99 if 99 et 4e tr' to 4$e it i4per. If St$nfor" %ni&erit', foot$ co$ch"eci"e not to put $ p$'er in the $4e 99

A. 7e.

/. 99 th$t $thete c$n,t ue St$nfor" for re$ch of contr$ct@ riht8


35/130

A. Correct.

/. ;he co$ch h$ "icretion o&er ho to put in the $4e@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut I $nt 'ou to $u4e th$t if AEG Li&e re$che" it contr$ct to !r. J$con $n" to" hi4 hec$n,t t$e the t$e# it ou" e in re$ch of contr$ct. So th$t ou" e the "ifference# if th$t, true@correct8

A. ;he te$4 h$ 100 choice to put on the fie"# not one.

/. So the te$4 h$ choice $ to hether to put $ p$'er in the $4e or not8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t, $ctu$' $n i4port$nt p$rt of 'our return9to9p$' $n$'i# i the i"e$ th$t# 'ou no# thete$4 i oin to e "eci"in hether or not the p$'er p$'8

A. 6ro4 $ ph'ic$9i9perfor4$nce t$n"point# not fro4 $ 4e"ic$9in=ur' t$n"point# 'e.

/. ut there, ti 4utipe "eciion94$er in the te$4 conte)t8

A. 7ou 4e$n oner# $"4initr$tor# co$che8 ;here, "ifferent $'er# 'e.

/. An" ou" 'ou $ree th$t, $t e$t $ itte it "ifferent th$n $ 509'e$r9o" 4$n hirin $ pro"uctionco4p$n' to pro"uce $ tour for hi48

A. 7e.

/. -e t$e" e$rier $out confict of interet# $n" the f$ct th$t the',re o4eh$t ine&it$e in the4e"ic$ fie"@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. E&en thouh e ou" r$ther the' "i"n,t e)it# the' unfortun$te' "o8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t "octor re$' h$&e to "e$ ith the4 on $ "$'9to9"$' $i $n" thin $out the4 $n" 4$eure the',re not $ffectin their =u"4ent8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou h$&e to "o th$t in 'our ine of or8

A. 7e.


36/130

/. An" it, 'our opinion th$t confict of interet hou" e 4iti$te"# to the e)tent poie@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. ec$ue the' c$n,t re$' e $&oi"e" $toether8

A. Correct.

/. An" the pri4$r' $' of 4iti$tin confict i throuh "icoure@ riht8

A. Dicoure i the firt tep.

/. E&er'one $'# here $re 4' interet# $n" then e t$ $out hether it, $ proe4 or not8

A. 7e.

/. In thi c$e# thouh# e&er'one ne h$t the itu$tion $@ riht8

A. in thi c$e# ein8

/. !r. J$con, re$tionhip ith AEG Li&e.

A. E&er'one ne h$t th$t itu$tion $8

/. Let 4e put it "ifferent'. ;hi in,t $ c$e here AEG Li&e h$ $ ecret re$tionhip ith Dr. !urr$'th$t !r. J$con "oen,t no $out@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. In f$ct# the on' re$on AEG Li&e e&er poe to Dr. !urr$' $ ec$ue !r. J$con c$4e to the4$n" $i"# I $nt 'ou to "o $ "e$ ith 4' "octor ie 'ou,re "oin $ "e$ ith e&er'o"' ee on thitour8

A. I eie&e o# 'e.

/. So !r. J$con# $t e$t# $ $$re of the f$ct th$t he $ in&o&in AEG Li&e in o4e t$nenti$$'# $t the &er' 4ini4u4# in the re$tionhip eteen hi4 $n" hi "octor8

A. 7e.

/. An" he pecific$' $e" th$t AEG Li&e $"&$nce 4one' to hi "octor $t $ fee of H150#000 $ 4onth8

A. 7e.

/. An" Dr. !urr$' ne th$t $ the itu$tion@ riht8

A. ;h$t !r. J$con $nte" hi4 in&o&e"# 'ou 4e$n8


37/130

/. 7e.

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t !r. J$con $ uti4$te' oin to e reponie for p$'in hi4# ut AEG Li&e $oin to $"&$nce the fee8

A. I,4 not ure h$t 99 hether Dr. !urr$' ne here the fun" ere co4in fro4. ut# 'e# th$tcou" e correct.

/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t, not the c$e8

A. No.

/. I it 'our poition# then# th$t !r. J$con $ not $e to conent to $ re$tionhip here AEG Li&eou" e p$'in hi "octor8

A. No.

/. So he $ $e to conent to th$t re$tionhip8

A. 7e.

/. An" in f$ct# the Dr$ft $ree4ent ith Dr. !urr$' e)pre' reuire" !r. J$con, conent to th$tre$tionhip@ riht8

A. 7e. I eie&e# thouh# th$t it $ unuu$ in th$t there $ $ in$ture ine th$t re$' put hi4 $ $p$rticip$nt# not $ $ pri4$r' peron in th$t re$tionhip.

/.


38/130

A. Not un"er thoe ter4 $n" con"ition.

/. %n"er $n' ter4 $n" con"ition8

A. ;here cou" e ter4 $n" con"ition th$t ou" re"uce the ri of confict.

/. So 'ou eie&e it, poie for $ ine "octor to h$&e one on tour ith !r. J$con8

A. Depen"in on the con"ition.

/. -h$t con"ition ou" 4$e it o$'8

A. -e# for e)$4pe# $ u4p u4 p$'4ent th$t $n,t tie" to the in"epen"ence of 4e"ic$ "eciion94$in. ;h$t ou" h$&e 4$"e $ "ifference.

/. So 'ou eie&e th$t, poie8

A. ;h$t, poie.

/. I th$t $ ch$ne in 'our opinion fro4 'our "epoition8

A. Fopefu' not.

/. A riht. Let, o $he$" $n" p$' 'our "epoition. I,4 not ure if I h$&e thi cip in here or not. -e4$' p$' it $fter the re$ thi 4ornin.

Ms. %teins$ Pa)e 21/ line / throu)h 218 line 3.

/. I, h$&e it re$"' $fter the re$.

A. O$'.

/. Let, o on for no. So 'ou eie&e th$t $ u4p u4 p$'4ent in $"&$nce ou" h$&e een o$'8

A. -e# th$t, one f$ctor th$t ou" i4pro&e the ri of confict# 'e.

/. So et, t$e th$t itu$tion. It, !$' 200 or# et, $'# June 200. !ich$e J$con co4e to AEGLi&e $n" $'# I $nt 'ou to p$' to rin 4' "octor on tour ith 4e. An" inte$" of $ 4onth'$ree4ent $n" $ contr$ct# I $nt 'ou to =ut i&e hi4 H1.5 4iion upfront. th$t ou" e o$'8

A. -h$t $re the con"ition for recei&in th$t 1.58

/. No con"ition. Jut i&e the "octor 150#000 $ 4onth 99 i&e the "octor H1.5 4iion# $n" he, ointo =oin the tour.

A. -e# if there, no con"ition for i44e"i$te ter4in$tion# $n" there, no con"ition th$t tie the or he"oe to AEG# it, e ie' th$t he ou" fee controe".


39/130

/. So it, 'our poition th$t the on' $' to $&oi" contro i to p$' hi4 for the entire tour upfront# $n"e&en if the tour ne&er h$ppen# he et to eep $ the 4one'8

A. -e# I ou"n,t nece$ri' tructure it e)$ct' ie th$t# ut th$t, riht. ;o re4o&e o4e of theter4 $n" con"ition th$t in&o&e i44e"i$te ter4in$tion $n" reportin to AEG -ou" re"uce theconfict# 'e.

/. Let, $' th$t th$t, $ "eciion th$t "oen,t fin$nci$' 4$e ene# to p$' o4eone for $ tour if the'"on,t no ho on the tour i oin to e. I it o$' to p$' Dr. !urr$' H150#000 $ 4onth# $ on $there $re no con"ition $tt$che" to it# ut it ou" e ter4in$te" if the tour ere ter4in$te"8

A. -e# I,4 not ure h$t in" of ph'ici$n ou" in up for th$t $n" e$&e $ pr$ctice to "o th$t. utif the' "i"# it, 99 it "oe re"uce the ri# 'e.

/. So th$t ou" e etter8

A. ;h$t ou" e etter.

/. -ou" it e o$'8

A. It ou"n,t e 100 percent etter# no.

/. So 'ou ti eie&e th$t th$t "octor ou" e tr$&ein un"er $ potenti$' cruhin ethic$ confict8

A. I,4 not ure if it, cruhin# ut it ou" re"uce the ri of i44e"i$te ter4in$tion# hich ou"re"uce the fin$nci$ concern th$t ore on th$t confict.

/. ut it, 'our opinion# pe$in ener$'# th$t it, re$' ethic$' ch$enin for $n' "octor to o on$ tour ith $ 4uici$n@ correct8

A. 7e. ec$ue the "octor i oper$tin in $ uniue en&iron4ent# not in their t'pic$ 4e"ic$en&iron4ent.

/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in $ to ho often "octor tr$&e ith tour@ riht8

A. Correct.

/. I it 'our opinion th$t e&er' "octor th$t tr$&e ith $ tour i oper$tin un"er o4e in" of ethic$co4pro4ie poition8

A. ;h$t the itu$tion the',re in ou" 4ore ie' th$n not h$&e confict in it# 'e.

/. So if $ perfor4in $rtit $nt to rin $ peron$ "octor on tour# in $n" of itef# th$t, $ proe4 to'ou8

A. It cou" e# 'e.

/. ec$ue 'ou thin it, etter to hire $ hopit$8


40/130

A. I thin it, etter to h$&e $n i4p$rti$ roup 4$in thoe "eciion# 'e.

/. ut it i# ener$'# 'ou ou" $o $ree# o4eone, choice to rin their on "octor# $n" hich"octor the' $nt to ee@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. So 'ou "on,t h$&e $ proe4 ith the i"e$ th$t $n $rtit $nt to rin hi on "octor on tour 99

A. No.

/. 99 in the $tr$ct8

A. Correct.

/. 7ou =ut thin th$t th$t "octor i ie' to e co4pro4ie" ethic$'8

A. ;here, $ &er' hih ieihoo" of confict# 'e# th$t nee" to e 4$n$e".

/. I,4 =ut tr'in to fiure out h$t $ oo" ethic$ itu$tion ou" e.

A. A oo" ethic$ itu$tion# for e)$4pe# cou" e to h$&e $ rot$tin roup of peope th$t o o&er toee $t $ ti4e# or three ee $t $ ti4e. -e,&e "one th$t in port.

Ms. %teins$ nd proal! time +or our rea. *s that oa! !our honor,

-ud)e$ es. &a!. 15 minutes.

9-ur! exits:

-ud)e$ &a!. %ee !ou in 15 minutes.

Mr. Putnam$ han !ou !our honor.

9#rea:

!. Stein? Dr. !$theon# $t the re$ "i" 'ou et $n opportunit' to t$ ith p$intiff, coune8

A. 7e.

/. Di" 'ou t$ $out the c$e $t $8

A. No.

/. Nothin8


41/130

A. No.

/. I $nt to $ 'ou for $ 4inute $out o4ethin 'ou =ut $i" =ut efore the re$. An" 'ou $i"#uote# I,4 not ure hether Dr. !urr$' ne here the fun" ere co4in fro4@ riht8 I th$t riht8

A. I eie&e he thouht the' ere co4in fro4 AEG ;h$t, h$t the contr$ct $ $out.

/. So if Dr. !urr$' "i"n,t no the fun" ere co4in fro4 AEG Li&e in the firt int$nce# he cou"n,th$&e fet preure fro4 AEG Li&e@ riht8

A. I thin the contr$ct in"ic$te th$t, here the fun" ere co4in fro4.

/. O$'. So 'ou $nt to t$e $c the i"e$ 'ou,re not ure if Dr. !urr$' $ $$re here the fun"ere co4in fro48

A. -h$t i 4e$nt i# e&entu$' he $ not ure here there $ p$'$c# ut initi$' he ne it $co4in fro4 AEG

/. -e# he $o ne th$t the Dr$ft contr$ct th$t he ine" $i" the en$e4ent $ to e $t !ich$eJ$con, e)pene@ riht8

A. I eie&e 99

/. It $i" th$t in e&er' ine Dr$ft8

A. I eie&e o.

/. No# 'ou tetifie" e$rier th$t 'ou,re not f$4ii$r ith ho $ tourin in"utr' i tructure" ener$'.An" I, repreent to 'ou there, een o4e teti4on' in thi c$e $out other tour "octor th$t o ontour ith ph'ici$n 99 or th$t o on tour ith 4uici$n# e)cue 4e. An" I $nt to $# "o 'ou h$&e$n' i"e$ ho p$' ceine "ion, "octor hen he oe on tour8

A. No# I "on,t.

/. 7ou h$&e $n' i"e$ ho th$t contr$ct i tructure"8

A. No.

/. Fo $out in 1B2, "octor8

A. No.

/.


42/130

p$i"@ riht8

A. No. I,&e he$r" $nec"ot$ torie# ut I "on,t h$&e $ ener$ un"ert$n"in.

/. -e# in thi c$e# 'ou "on,t h$&e $ pecific un"ert$n"in of the roe of &$riou fo@ riht8

A. Of the &$riou hich8 I,4 orr'.

/. V$riou peronne in&o&e" in the tour.

A. I h$&e =ut $ ener$ un"ert$n"in of the reponiiitie.

/. An" 'ou "o un"ert$n"# ener$'# th$t the $' the tour $ oin to or $ th$t $ the cot ofthe tour ere oin to e $"&$nce" $n" then recoupe"8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t $o th$t $ nu4er of peron$ e)pene ere oin to e $"&$nce"8 6or int$nce# the cotof !r. J$con, ho4e rent$# $n" the $$rie of hi houeho" t$ff in Lon"on8

A. 7e.

/. So 'ou un"ertoo" th$t prett' 4uch e&er'thin re$tin to the tour $ oin to e $"&$nce" 'AEG Li&e# either $ $ pro"uction $"&$nce or $n $rtit $"&$nce# $n" then rep$i" ' !r. J$con@ riht8

A. Ether $ pro"uction $"&$nce# "i" 'ou $'8

/. Or $n $rtit $"&$nce.

A. -h$t, the "ifference eteen thoe to8

/. ;he $rtit $"&$nce $re 99 h$&e $ iht' "ifferent p$'$c tructure# "epen"in on 99 the pro"uction99 one i ue" to c$cu$te the pro"ucer fee# $n" one i not ue" to c$cu$te the pro"ucer fee.

A. O$'. An" the uetion i# "o I h$&e $n un"ert$n"in th$t thoe ere oin to e rei4ure"8

/.


43/130

/. So eenti$'# it, in" of ie t$in out $ 4ort$e to p$' for $ concert tour8

A. I ue th$t, $ $' of ooin $t it# 'e.

/. An" if !ich$e J$con h$" in f$ct t$en out $ 4ort$e to p$' for

A. Concert tour 99 et, preten" e,re in $ or" here Ne&er$n" i not 4ort$e"# $n" he $'#


44/130

/. If 'ou ere ettin up the tour in europe# h$t 4e"ic$ $rr$ne4ent ou" 'ou e co4fort$eith !r. J$con to e ethic$ $rr$ne4ent8

A. ;he firt thin i I ou" "o $ co4preheni&e $e4ent of hi he$th# $ or$n 'te4# t$tu# hinutrition# ph'ic$ c$p$cit'. An" ue th$t $ $ $' of cre$tin $n' ch$ne to hi 4e"ic$ pror$4 ortre$t4ent th$t, reuire".

/. So 'ou eie&e the on' $' $ concert pro"uction co4p$n' c$n t$e $n $rtit, "octor on tour i ifthe concert pro"uction co4p$n' "oe $ co4preheni&e 4e"ic$ $e4ent of the $rtit8

A. ;h$t, not the on' $'# ut th$t, pro$' in prett' 4uch e&er' other in"utr'# fro4 poice to$thetic to the $uto4oti&e in"utr'.

/. It, 'our un"ert$n"in th$t in the $uto4oti&e in"utr'# efore en"in o4eone on $ uine trip#the $uto4oti&e co4p$n' "oe $ 4e"ic$ $e4ent8

A. efore the e4po'ee i hire"# the' h$&e $ co4preheni&e $e4ent# 'e.

/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in th$t !r. J$con $ oin to e $n e4po'ee of AEG Li&e8

A. No# ut he $ oin to en$e in thoe in" of $cti&itie th$t reuire hi4 to or ph'ic$'.

/.


45/130

o4eone ho i o oo" or o e)perience" in $ $re$# the' c$n "o it ' the4e&e. ut 4ot often'ou nee" $ te$4 ec$ue there $re &$riou $pect. 7ou h$&e 4ucuoeet$ he$th in"utrie#ph'ic$ he$th# perfor4$nce c$p$cit'# there, nutrition# reh$iit$tion# p'chooic$ e9ein. ;hoe$re $ f$ctor th$t o into ph'ic$ c$p$iitie.

/. So for one pop $rtit to o on tour# he nee" $ te$4 of ph'ici$n to tr$&e ith hi48

A. No. ;h$t, the $e4ent I,4 pe$in of.

/. Oh.

A. ;h$t ou" t$e p$ce $t the einnin to outine $n' iue th$t nee" to e "e$t ith.

/. An" then h$t8

A. ;hen once thoe $re non# 'ou "e$ ith thoe. An" then the ne)t i 99 e,re oin on the tourno8

/. 7e.

A. So the ne)t thin I ou" "o i 4$e ure th$t e h$" hire" $ roup of peope th$t ou" continueh$t $ i"entifie" in th$t prep$rticip$tion e&$u$tion $n" pro&i"e th$t c$re $n" e $e to pro&i"e c$re"urin the tour. It cou" e tructure" in $ nu4er of $'. 7ou 99 if I ere AEG An" I "i"n,t h$&e th$tin9houe 4e"ic$ e)pertie# I ou" oo for it o4ehere in thi $re$. An" perh$p $ re$tionhip"e&eop# $n" o4e of thoe peope continue co4in to europe# to en$n"# or perh$p the' rot$tethrouh. An" $o "e&eop $ cre"ie roup ithin Lon"on to pro&i"e or continue th$t in" of er&ice.

/. So 'ou "o thin th$t there nee" to e $ roup ith ho4 AEG Li&e $ffii$te for the purpoe oftre$tin !r. J$con8

A. It, h$r" to i4$ine it cou" e on' one peron# 'e.

/. No# 'ou,re $$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t !r. J$con "i" h$&e $ ph'ic$ "one in feru$r' of 2008

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t th$t ph'ic$# AEG Li&e $n,t 4$"e $$re of the reut ut $ to" he p$e" it8

A. 7e. ut th$t ph'ic$ $ i4ite". It, not the ph'ic$ I,4 t$in $out.

/.


46/130

A. Not co44on'.

/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ hether the',re cuto4$ri' ue" to con"uct e)$4in$tion of perfor4in$rtit on tour8

A. +reu4$' the' cou"# ec$ue the &oice i i4port$nt# $n" the &oc$ cor" $re i4port$nt. So

preu4$' th$t, $n i4port$nt co4ponent of $ co4preheni&e e&$u$tion.

/. ut 'our et9c$e cen$rio# the $' thi tour hou" h$&e een tructure"# $ 99 $n" i =ut $nt to4$e ure I h$&e it correct'. !ich$e J$con co4e to AEG Li&e $n" $'# -ith $ the otherentour$e I,4 rinin on o$r"# I $nt to rin 4' on9ti4e peron$ ph'ici$n ith 4e# $n" I $ntto rin hi4 to Lon"on# $n" c$n 'ou $rr$ne th$t@ th$t AEG Li&e hou" h$&e $i"# No# e c$n,t$rr$ne th$t. Inte$"# e h$&e to h$&e $ te$4 of "octor e&$u$te 'our he$th# $n" then contr$ct ith $hopit$ either here or in Lon"on# $n" rin th$t te$4 of "octor ith u8

A. AEG Li&e hou" h$&e $i"# -e,re not e)pert in 4e"ic$ c$re# o e,re oin to fin" out h$t theet $' to "o thi i# in the $4e $' the',re not e)pert in ihtin or# perh$p# in choreor$ph' orin p'rotechnic. ;he' contr$ct th$t out. ;he' hou" h$&e "one th$t ith the 4e"ic$ c$re.

/. Doe AEG Li&e nee" to e $n e)pert for 4e"ic$ c$re for !ich$e J$con to chooe hi onph'ici$n8

A. If the',re oin to enter into $n $ree4ent# 'e.

/. So ' &irtue of $reein to p$' the "octor $t !r. J$con, reuet $n" on hi eh$f# 'ou eie&eAEG Li&e h$" $n oi$tion to eco4e $n e)pert in 4e"ic$ c$re or hire $n e)pert in 4e"ic$ c$re8

A. ;he' $ccept reponiiit' for th$t# 'e.

/. 7ou thin =ut ' &irtue of $reein to p$'8

A. 7e.

/. E&en thouh the',re p$'in for the 4$eup $rtit8

A. ;he 4$eup $rtit $n,t pro&i"in 4e"ic$ c$re.

/. Chef8

A. S$4e.

/. So it, 'our opinion th$t $n'o"' ho p$' in $n' $'# h$pe or for4 for $ perfor4er, 4e"ic$ c$reh$ to e reponie for th$t 4e"ic$ c$re8

A. 7e. ;h$t, the i"e$ $' to $&oi" confict of interet. ;h$t, the i"e$ $' to pro&i"e oo" c$re.

/. An" 'ou thin th$t ou" $&oi" confict of interet8

A. C$n 'ou $ th$t uetion one 4ore ti4e8


47/130

/. Sure. 7ou thin th$t hirin $ te$4 of ph'ici$n ou" pre&ent the confict of interet8

A. It ou" re"uce the confict of interet# 'e.

/. ec$ue $ thoe te$4 of ph'ici$n ou" ti h$&e their =o to co4e $c ho4e to8

A. ;he' ou" pe$ to e$ch other $out proe4@ the' ou" h$re thoe proe4# hep e$ch othero&e the4@ there ou" e openne $out co44unic$tion# 'e.

/. ;here, no re$on th$t $ 509'e$r9o" 4$n in oo" he$th nee" $ te$4 of ph'ici$n to pro&i"e4e"ic$ c$re in the e&ent of $ 4e"ic$ e4erenc'# i there8

A. -h$t in" of e4erenc'8

/. -e# I ue h$t I,4 $'in i# et, t$e $n $&er$e 509'e$r9o" 4$n in oo" he$th. Doe he nee"$ te$4 of peci$it urroun"in hi4 $t $ ti4e8

A. Fe nee" o4eone ho i $e to $cce $n" ue thoe peci$it# ec$ue the &$riet' of proe4th$t c$n "e&eop $re not i4ite" to one or$n 'te4.

/. ut $ "octor c$n refer p$tient to peci$it@ riht8

A. If the' h$&e the noe"e th$t h$t the',re "e$in ith i outi"e of their $re$ of e)pertie.

/. In f$ct# th$t, p$rt of the hippocr$tic o$th th$t e t$e" $out e$rier# if it, outi"e the $re$ of theire)pertie# the', refer o4eone to $ peci$it@ riht8

A.


48/130

/. Sutitute "octor for $rtit. 'ou un"ert$n" the uetion8

A. Cou" 'ou repe$t it8

/. Sure. F'pothetic$' pe$in# cou" $ 509'e$r9o" $rtit chooe to rin $ pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$non tour ith hi4# re'in on th$t pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n, oi$tion 99 ethic$ oi$tion $n" e)pertie

to re$ch out to peci$it# if nee"e"8

A. 7e. Depen" on the tructure of the contr$ct.

/. S$' there, no contr$ct.

A. -e# 'ou $nt 4e to pecu$te8

/. I $nt 'ou to pe$ to the h'pothetic$. In th$t h'pothetic$ itu$tion# $n $rtit $nt to rin $"octor on tour# $ pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n. ;he "octor h$ the $iit' to cont$ct other ph'ici$n th$t et$e" $out e$rier# the oi$tion to "o o. C$n the $rtit# ithout $ contr$ct# rin the "octor on tourto "o th$t8

A. An" there, no p$'4ent or other enefit8

/. -e# the "octor i p$i" for hi ti4e $ the tour continue.

A. -e# for e)$4pe# i th$t p$'4ent pit eteen the other conut$nt or i it $ o$ fee heree&er'o"' et p$i"# or i the "octor $e to eep it $ if he "oen,t refer8 ;h$t ou" not e $n i"e$$rr$ne4ent.

/. In thi h'pothetic$ I ou" e)pect the peci$it ou" e p$i" $ e. In other or"# the pri4$r'c$re ph'ici$n ou" e p$i" $ $$r'# ie o4e pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n $re# $n" if there $ nee" for$ peci$it# the peci$it ou" e p$i" ep$r$te'.

A. If there $ no eroion of in"epen"ent 4e"ic$ =u"4ent in th$t# th$t ou" een the confict# 'e.

/. I,4 $in hether there, $n eroion of ethic$ 4e"ic$ =u"4ent in th$t itu$tion.

A. A$in# it re$' "epen" on h$t the p$'4ent i ie# $n" if there, $n' tructure. It, h$r" toconcei&e of o4ethin ie th$t e)itin ithout $ tructure.

/. ec$ue in 'our or"# there, $$' $ tructure@ riht8

A. ;here, $n un"ert$n"in of h$t the tructure i# ho et p$i" h$t# 'e.

/. ;here h$ to e tructure ith port te$4# riht# ec$ue 'ou h$&e the $4e in" of itu$tionco4in up o&er $n" o&er $$in# $n" 'ou,re "e$in ith $re roup of peope# $thete# th$t nee"tre$t4ent 'e$r in $n" 'e$r out@ riht8

A. ;here "oen,t h$&e to e $ tructure. An" hitoric$'# there h$n,t een in $ ot of itu$tion# hich ih' e run into o 4$n' proe4 in port.


49/130

/. ut it, "eci"e" in the port conte)t th$t ec$ue thee proe4 co4e up o&er $n" o&er $$in# it4$e ene to h$&e tructure@ riht8

A. ;h$t tructure $ uit o&er $ on perio" of ti4e# reconi>in the confict inherent in it.

/.


50/130

/.


51/130

/. In the contr$ct.

A. So there i $ contr$ct8

/. In thi h'pothetic$# there, $ contr$ct ith thi one con"ition.

A. +e$e pro&i"e oo" 4e"ic$ c$re8

/.


52/130

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou,re ettin H500 $n hour to e here8

A. 7e.

/. An" preu4$'# if the p$intiff "i"n,t ie the opinion 'ou ere i&in in thi c$e# the' ou"n,tp$' 'ou to it in th$t ch$ir8

A. I eie&e I,4 ein p$i" for 4' ti4e# not to e ittin in the ch$ir.

/. 7ou,re cert$in' ein p$i" for 'our ti4e in the itne t$n"# thouh@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" it, f$ir to $' th$t if 'ou," one to p$intiff $n" $i"# 7ou no h$t8 I "on,t $ree ith 'ourinterpret$tion of the "ocu4ent $n" 'our un"ert$n"in of the c$e# the' pro$' ou"n,t h$&erouht 'ou $c here to tetif'@ riht8

A. If I "i$ree"# I "on,t thin I ou" h$&e t$en on thi c$e riht fro4 the einnin.

/.


53/130

/. ec$ue 'ou eie&e th$t 'our =u"4ent i in"epen"ent@ riht8

A. -e# e&er'thin I,&e "one i open recor". I,4 not oin to $' $n'thin th$t, oin to infuence or"$4$e 4' reput$tion ec$ue e&er'thin i open. In f$ct# $t the "epoition ith 'ou# 'ou h$" 'ouron itne on confict of interet there in the "epoition I $ i&in# o th$t $ in the open# ie theret of the puic recor" i.

/.


54/130

A. 7e.

/ $n" i it or i it not 'our teti4on' th$t if AEG Li&e h$" i4p' i&en !ich$e J$con the 4one' top$' Dr. !urr$'# there ou" h$&e een no confict of interet8

A. -ithout the $4e ter4 $n" con"ition th$t e)ite" in the $ree4ent8

/. -e# et, $' th$t AEG Li&e on' i&e !r. J$con the 4one' $ on $ the tour continue.

A. I,4 not ure I un"ert$n".

/. So et, $' th$t the itu$tion i e)$ct' ie the itu$tion $# in th$t !r. J$con $ roe# !r.J$con $ h$&in the tour fin$nce" ' AEG Li&e# $n" !r. J$con $'# Fe'# I $nt to rin 4'on9ti4e peron$ ph'ici$n on tour. An" AEG Li&e $'# Gre$t. -e, $"&$nce 'ou H150#000 $4onth# p$' 'our "octor h$te&er 'ou $nt. ut if the tour i c$ncee"# o&iou' the $"&$nce i ecut off# ec$ue th$t, true ith e&er' $"&$nce in the tour8

A. ;h$t, ti $ confict of interet.

/. So th$t, ti $ proe48

A. ;h$t, ti $ proe4.

/. So there, 99 h$t if AEG Li&e $'# I, p$' 'ou 1.5 4iion upfront# ut if the tour i c$ncee"# $to4e point 'ou h$&e to p$' $c th$t entire $4ount# $n" the' te th$t to !ich$e J$con8

A. It, ti $ confict of interet.

/. -h$t if !ich$e J$con 99 h$t if AEG Li&e "oen,t no $n'thin $out Dr. !urr$'. ;he' i&e!ich$e J$con $ H35 4iion $"&$nce $n" $'# Go put 'our on tour toether. $n" !ich$e J$con"eci"e to rin in Dr. !urr$' $n" p$' hi4 H150#000 $ 4onth ith the con"ition th$t the tour "oen,to on# the p$'4ent i c$ncee"8

A. -e# Dr. !urr$' ou" ti e conficte" in th$t itu$tion. AEG Li&e# if their on' roe $ to i&ehi4 $ $re u4 of 4one'# ne nothin $out hi4# no contr$ct# no pro&iion# th$t ou" e $ 4uchre"uce" confict# ut it ou" ti e)it.

/. Fo ou" it e re"uce"8 I ue th$t, 4' uetion# ec$ue either $'# riht# the 99 if the tour ic$ncee" or potpone"# Dr. !urr$' "oen,t o on tour# Dr. !urr$' "oen,t et the 4one'8

A. ec$ue h$t ou" h$ppen if Dr. !urr$' $ conficte" i# he cou" 4$e $" 4e"ic$ "eciion#$n" then th$t, the proe4.

/.


55/130

4onth th$t top if the tour i c$ncee" or potpone". ut 'ou eie&e i4p' ' &irtue of h$&in $ep$r$te contr$ct ith AEG Li&e# there, o4e $""ition$ confict or preure# $n" th$t, h$t I,4 tr'into unp$c $ itte it.

A. 7e. ;he "octor $ $ner$e to AEG In th$t contr$ct.

/. So 'ou eie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' $ $ner$e to AEG# $n" th$t, $ ep$r$te ource of confict8

A. 7e.

/. So if th$t p$rt c$4e out 99

A. Of the contr$ct8

/. 7e. ;he p$rt th$t 'ou,re c$i4in i $ner$e to AEG Li&e. -e, t$ $out th$t $ itte it thi$fternoon. Otherie# it ou" e e)$ct' the $4e itu$tion8

A. -e# there, $o the i44e"i$te ter4in$tion.

/.


56/130

A. !' un"ert$n"in i he h$" een hi4 e th$n 10 ti4e. I thin it $ i) ti4e o&er th$t three9'e$rperio".

/. An" 'ou,re $in th$t on 4e"ic$ recor"@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' ept $"eu$te or co4pete 4e"ic$ recor" of hi&iit ith !r. J$con8

A. No# I h$&en,t een thoe recor".

/. In f$ct# he ept no recor" of the entire perio" he tre$te" hi4 "urin $pri# 4$' $n" June 200@riht8

A. Not to 4' noe"e. Correct.

/. So it, poie he tre$te" hi4 4uch 4ore freuent' in the prior 'e$r $n" =ut "i"n,t eep recor"of the48

A. ;heoretic$'.

/. 7ou h$&e no re$on to eie&e he "i" eep $"eu$te recor"8

A. ;h$t he ept $"eu$te recor" or th$t he tre$te" hi4 4ore often8

/. ;h$t he ept $"eu$te recor".

A. No. I "on,t h$&e $n opinion either $'.

/. An" 'ou no th$t he "i" tre$t hi4 $t e$t fro4 2008

A. 7e. Epio"ic$'.

/. -e# 'our $i for epio"ic$' i thee 4e"ic$ recor"@ riht8

A. An" not i&in in the $4e ton.

/. -e# the' oth i&e" in L$ Ve$# "i"n,t the'8

A. Continuou'8

/. ;o 4' un"ert$n"in. I th$t riht8

A. %h4# 4' un"ert$n"in i the tre$t4ent $ epio"ic# in" of hit $n" 4i. It $n,t reu$r.

/. An" 'our $i for th$t un"ert$n"in i8

A. I 4e"ic$ recor"# 'e.


57/130

/. O$'. So if the 4e"ic$ recor" $re not $ccur$te# then 'ou "on,t $ctu$' h$&e $n' i"e$ ho often Dr.!urr$' tre$te" !r. J$con8

A. I "on,t h$&e $n $ccur$te fiure# nece$ri'# other th$n 4' i4preion# correct.

/. ut th$t, $ i,4 $in. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t if the tour ere c$ncee"# !r.J$con ou" u""en' top eein Dr. !urr$'8

A. No. I "on,t h$&e $n' e&i"ence.

/. An" he h$" in f$ct een hi4# $t e$t on $n" off# for $t e$t three 'e$r@ riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou,re $$re th$t $ of $t e$t $ 'e$r efore the tour# Dr. !urr$' $ $cco4p$n'in !r.J$con to $ppoint4ent ith other ph'ici$n@ riht8

A. 7e# I $4.

/. An" 'ou,re $$re th$t he $ intro"uce" $ hi peron$ ph'ici$n8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t re$tionhip ou" h$&e u""en' en"e" =ut ec$uethe tour $ c$ncee"8

A. I ou" pecu$te# ut# no# I "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t.

/. So et, t$ $out 4$' of 200. So $t thi point# !r. J$con i $pp$rent' he$th' to $ concerne"@riht8

A. 7e.

/. -orin out e&er' "$'8

A. I he8

/. I,4 $in.

A. I "on,t no if he, orin out e&er' "$'.

/. Do 'ou no if he, in&o&e" $n" en$e" in rehe$r$ $t thi point8

A. I eie&e he i in&o&e" ith rehe$rin# 'e# in 4$'.

/. ut it, 'our un"ert$n"in th$t no one h$" $n' concern $out !r. J$con, he$th in !$' 200@riht8


58/130

A. ;h$t, $ "ifficut uetion to $ner. I "on,t no if peope h$" concern $out hi he$th. I thinthere ere concern $out ettin thi ho oin $n" $ potenti$ there. ut pecific concern# no.

/. 7e$h. It, not 4e$nt to e $ h$r" uetion. ;here, nothin 'ou c$n point to 4e pecific$' th$tuet $n'o"' $ concerne" $out !r. J$con, he$th in !$' 2008

A. Correct.

/. So $t th$t point# !r. J$con co4e up to AEG Li&e $n" $'# I $nt to rin 4' on9ti4e "octoron tour@ riht8

A.


59/130

A. No. I ou"n,t "o th$t.

/. 7ou on,t# ut it, 'our opinion th$t no one cou" "o th$t8

A. -e# th$t 99 the confict of interet potenti$ i too hih.

/. So =ut "oin h$t the p$tient $ $n" $"&$ncin the 4one' for the "octor# ie e&er'one ee onthe tour# hen 'ou eie&e the p$tient i he$th'# th$t in $n" of itef i =ut not poie8

A. It, theoretic$' poie# ut it cre$te $ ri for confict th$t, ut$nti$.

Ms. %teins$ &a!. *;m )oin) to )o into another area. nd it;s 12$00 so 77

-ud)e$ &a!. 1$30.

9


60/130

A. It "epen" on ho it, tructure".

/. So 'ou thin there 4iht e $ $'8

A. It, poie# 'e.

/. Do 'ou rec$ $'in o4ethin "ifferent in 'our "epoition8

A. I c$n,t rec$# orr'.

Ms. %teins$ Go ahead and pla! that clip * had this mornin) hich is 21/ line / throu)h 218

line 3.

Mr. Panish$ =old on a second. 21/7/ to 23,

Ms. %teins$ o 21873.

Mr. Panish$ &a!. Go ahead.

9a ideo clip +rom Dr. Matheson;s deposition is pla!ed durin) hich the +olloin) testimon! as

said:$

Q. In your view, is there any way that a physician could ethically go on tour with an artist around the

world?

A. I think if they were set up as part of a group that had good checks and balances, and that was

A. Credible entity, and they rotated people through, I think it's possible.

Q. I'm asking about one physician, not a rotating group.

A. I think it's very difficult. ow would that physician stay up to speed with medical education and with

the normal rounds that they attend and the educational sort of opportunities? !hey wouldn't have their

"" their thinking shaped day to day by running patients by other people. !hat would be

A. #retty lonely, isolated way to practice medicine.

Q. $o is the answer no?

A. %o.

Q. It's not possible?

A. Correct.


61/130

/. So# Dr. !$theon# i it poie for $ ine "octor to tr$&e ith $n $rtit or not8

A. It, poie if the con"ition ere correct# 'e.

/. So 'ou $nt to correct h$t 'ou $i" $t 'our "epoition hen 'ou $i" it $n,t poie8

A. 7e. I "on,t thin it i poie un"er the circu4t$nce in thi c$e.

/. ut 'ou thin 'ou there, o4e h'pothetic$ c$e here it 4iht e poie# =ut 99

A. It, poie to concei&e of $ h'pothetic$ c$e# 'e.

/. An" o unie h$t 'ou thouht $t 'our "epoition# 'ou no thin there, o4e h'pothetic$ c$ehere it 4iht e poie8

A. I thin it, $ 4$ ch$nce# ut it, poie# 'e.

/. -e ere t$in =ut efore unch $out the confict th$t 'ou eie&e Dr. !urr$' h$" =ut 'p$nnin to e $ tour "octor@ $n" e h$" t$e" $ itte it $out the i"e$ th$t re$r"e of ho $p$'in hi4# 'ou h$" $n iue ith the i"e$ th$t if he oe on tour $n" the tour i c$ncee"# he oe hi=o# th$t $uto4$tic$' in $n" of itef# to 'ou# cre$te $ re$' i confict of interet# riht8

A. So the uetion i hether ein u=ect to ter4in$tion cre$te $ confict for Dr. !urr$'8

/. 7e.

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t, true hether he, hire" "irect' ' AEG Li&e or hire" "irect' ' !ich$e J$con orhire" ' !ich$e J$con throuh AEG Li&e ith !ich$e J$con uti4$te' p$'in for hi4# riht8

A. 7e.

/. No 4$tter ho, p$'in for hi48

A. 7e# $thouh it, "ifferent. I 4e$n# the e)tent of th$t confict i "ifferent "epen"in on ho ip$'in. ut he i conficte"@ $n" if he, ter4in$te"# 'e# th$t, true.

/. An" it, Dr. !urr$', confict# riht8

A. It ein ith Dr. !urr$', confict.

/. An" it, Dr. !urr$', "ut' to 4$n$e confict# $ e t$e" $out e$rier# riht8

A. It, hi "ut' to tr' to 4$n$e confict# correct.

/. An"# in f$ct# $ccor"in to the 4e"ic$ $oci$tion, ui"eine# if he fin" hi4ef in $n i4poieitu$tion# it, hi "ut' to t$e hi4ef out of th$t itu$tion# riht8


62/130

A. If he c$n# 'e.

/. An" no 4$tter ho 4uch preure he, un"er# he ti h$ hi oi$tion to foo the hippocr$tico$th $n" tre$t hi p$tient ethic$'# riht8

A. -e# the e&i"ence i ho 'ou c$n,t itht$n" $n uni4ite" $4ount of preure. It, &er' "ifficut

to.

/. So 'ou no of pecific tu"ie here the e&i"ence ho th$t $ ph'ici$n, i $ co4pete'co4pro4ie" to the point the' h$" no choice8

A. I "on,t thin it, $c $n" hite# I thin it, "eree of e&erit'# $n" the re$ter the confict# theincre$e" ieihoo" th$t poor "eciion i e 4$"e.

/. ut 'ou,re not $'in Dr. !urr$' h$" no choice here# riht8

A. Fe h$" $ choice# 'e.

/. Fe h$" $ choice not to tre$t !ich$e J$con in $ 4e"ic$' "$nerou $'8

A. ;h$t choice 4$' h$&e een to forfeit hi =o# ut he h$" $ choice.

/.


63/130

the "octor# "oen,t 4$tter ho the' p$i"# "o 'ou the' h$&e the riht to infuence 4' c$re =ut 'p$'in8

A. 6or $ ine &iit8

/. Sure.

A. No.

/. -h$t $out for 100 &iit8

A. One ou" on"er h'# $n" I thin th$t, $ re$on$e uetion to $# h' $re the' "oin th$t.

/. ;h$t, not the uetion. ;he uetion i "o the' then h$&e $ riht or $n oi$tion re$r"in 4' c$re#=ut eteen 4e $n" 4' frien"# 4' frien" p$' for 4' "octor, &iit.

A. Not nece$ri'# une there, o4e tructure I,4 not $$re of.

/. An" if I p$i" for 4' he$thc$re ith $ cre"it c$r"# "oe the cre"it c$r" co4p$n' h$&e $ riht to"ict$te 4' 4e"ic$ c$re8

A. No.

/. An" if 4' or p$' for 4' he$thc$re throuh $ 4$n$e" c$re or throuh inur$nce# "oe 4'e4po'er h$&e the riht to "ict$te 4' he$thc$re8

A. No.

/. So it, not =ut the f$ct of p$'in# riht8

A. It, not on' the f$ct of co&erin the cot# correct.

/. F$ to e o4ethin 4ore th$n =ut p$'in for he$thc$re8

A. 7e.

/. O$'. Let, t$ $ itte it $out o4e of the "ocu4ent th$t 'ou ent throuh 'eter"$' $n" thi4ornin. An" the firt one I $nt to t$ $out $ the "r$ft contr$ct eteen AEG Li&e $n" Dr.!urr$'. An"# p$4# if 'ou cou" put th$t up. It, e)hiit 33. Dr. !$theon# 'ou,&e re&iee" thi"ocu4ent8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou un"ert$n" thi i $n une)ecute" contr$ct# riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou,&e ne&er een $ &erion ith !r. J$con, in$ture on it8


64/130

A. I c$n,t rec$ if I h$&e.

/. 7ou c$n,t rec$ hether 'ou,&e e&er een $ &erion ith !r. J$con, in$ture8

A. Correct# I c$n,t.

/. Fo 4uch ti4e h$&e 'ou pent on thi c$e8

A. Aroun" 100 hour.

/. An" ith 100 hour# 'ou "on,t no hether the e' contr$ct in the c$e $ e&er ine" ' !r.J$con8

Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm !our honor.

-ud)e$ &erruled.

A. I eie&e it $# ut I,4 not 100 percent poiti&e.

/. 7ou eie&e th$t !r. J$con ine" thi contr$ct8

A. I c$n,t rec$.

/. I, repreent to 'ou =ut for the $e of to"$' th$t he, not 99 there i no e&i"ence in the recor" th$the ine" th$t contr$ct. O$'8

A. O$'.

/. So et, $u4e th$t he "i" not in it# $n" $u4e th$t AEG Li&e "i" not in it. No# 'ou cite" $coupe of "ifferent pro&iion of thi contr$ct 'eter"$'# riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" the firt one 'ou t$e" $out $ p$r$r$ph 3. +$4# c$n 'ou o th$t up. An" th$t, here itt$te ho 4uch 4one' per 4onth Dr. !urr$' i oin to e p$i"8

A. 7e.

/. ut 'ou,re $o $$re of p$r$r$ph of the $ree4ent th$t t$te th$t !r. J$con h$ to $ppro&e thehoe thin# riht8 7ou c$n e$&e p$r$r$ph 3 up# p$4. I, e co4in $c to it. 7ou,re $o $$re ofp$r$r$ph # riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t !r. J$con h$ to in off on thi $ree4ent8

A. 7e.

/. Goin $c to p$r$r$ph 3# p$r$r$ph 3 $ctu$' $o $' th$t Dr. !urr$' "oen,t et p$i" unti the


65/130

$ree4ent i e)ecute"# riht8

A. -h$t point i th$t in ection 38

/. pro"ucer h$ re4it p$'4ent to GCA in the $4ount of 150#000 per 4onth to e p$i" on the $ter ofthe 15th "$' of the 4onth or fi&e uine "$' $fter the e)ecution $n" "ei&erin the $ree4ent.

A. 7e.

/. So 'ou ou" $ree ith 4e th$t the e$riet Dr. !urr$' c$n e p$i" i $fter the $ree4ent ie)ecute"8

A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou =ut tetifie" thi 4ornin there i no e&i"ence Dr. !urr$' $ e&er $ctu$' p$i" ' AEGLi&e# riht8

A. 7e.

/. Do 'ou no hether !r. J$con $ p$'in Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June 2008

A. I,4 99 I eie&e there $ teti4on' th$t he recei&e" o4e 4$ $4ount of c$h.

/. So 'ou $re $$re th$t !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$' in !$' $n" June8

A. 7e.

/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ e)$ct' ho 4uch !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June8

A. I "on,t no e)$ct' ho 4uch. I eie&e it $ 4$ $4ount# perh$p in the hun"re" of "o$r.

/. An" $re 'ou ure th$t, the on' $4ount th$t !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$'# or th$t, =ut h$t 'ou,re$$re of8

A. ;h$t, =ut h$t I,4 $$re of.

/. So it cou" e 4ore8

A. It cou" e.

/. In $n' e&ent# in thi ti4e perio"# AEG Li&e $ not p$'in Dr. !urr$'# $n" !r. J$con $8

A. 7e.

/. No# et, t$ $ itte it $out p$r$r$ph .1# ec$ue 'ou t$e" $out th$t $ f$ir $4ount 'eter"$'.+$4# if 'ou cou" o up .1. 7ou tetifie"# Dr. !$theon# "i"n,t 'ou# th$t thi pro&iion iA. Ver' i4port$nt p$rt of 'our opinion th$t thi $ree4ent cre$te" $ confict of interet# riht8

A. 7e.


66/130

/. ec$ue it reuire Dr. !urr$' to perfor4 er&ice reuete" ' AEG Li&e8

A. 7e.

/. -ou" 'ou $' it, foun"$tion$ to 'our opinion8

A. 7e.

/. F$&e 'ou h$" the opportunit' to re&ie Sh$n ;re, tri$ teti4on'8

A. No.

/. So 'ou "i"n,t ee hi teti4on' $out thi pro&iion8

A. Correct.

/. 7ou "i" re&ie K$th' Jorrie, "epoition teti4on' $out thi pro&iion# riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut not her teti4on' $t the cri4in$ tri$ 99

A. Correct.

/. 99 of Dr. !urr$'8 So 'ou,re $$re# in $n' e&ent# th$t !. Jorrie tetifie" th$t Dr. !urr$' h$"pecific$' $e" her to ch$ne thi $nu$e to 4$e ce$r th$t the contr$ct $ 99 th$t er&ice ou"on' e perfor4e" reuete" ' the $rtit $n" not ' the pro"ucer# riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t !. Jorrie i not ein truthfu8

A. No.

/. Au4in he i ein truthfu# $n" Dr. !urr$' pecific$' reuete" th$t the $ree4ent ec$rifie"# $n" AEG Li&e $ree" to o c$rif' it# then thi ou" not e $ $i for 'our opinion $n'4ore#correct8

A. -e# it, ti in there.

/.


67/130

e $ p$rt of 'our opinion# riht8

A. If there $ no reference to Dr. !urr$' ein $ner$e to AEG# then 'e# it ou" not e p$rt of4' opinion.

/. An" it ou" e $ prett' i p$rt of 'our opinion th$t "i"n,t h$&e $ foun"$tion $n'4ore# riht8

A. It ou" e $ p$rt of 4' opinion. ;hi i foun"$tion$# ut it $ $ p$rt of 4' opinion.

/. ut 'ou "i"n,t t$e into $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin ho 4uch to re' on thip$r$r$ph8

A. !r. -ho, teti4on'8

/. !. Jorrie, teti4on'. Sorr'. I pe$ in" of uiet' o4eti4e.

A. Cou" 'ou $ th$t $$in# pe$e8

/. 7ou "i"n,t t$e into $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin ho 4uch to re' on thi$nu$e8

A. ;o 4e# thi 99 the intention of thi $ th$t he ou" 99 th$t Dr. !urr$' ou" report to AEG@ ut ith$"n,t een ch$ne"# o to 4e# thi i 99 thi i $ "ocu4ent th$t in"ic$te h$t the intention $.

/. ut 'ou,re $$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t thi $nu$e oriin$' $ppe$re" tice in the "ocu4ent8

A.


68/130

preu4$' th$t, h$t AEG inten"e". An" $thouh it $ correcte" in one p$ce# it ee4 th$t th$t# to4e# $ ti the intent.

/. So 'ou thin "epite !. Jorrie, teti4on' th$t he i44e"i$te' to" Dr. !urr$'# ou're right, youre!ort to r. ackson only# $n" ch$ne" the contr$ct# it $ AEG Li&e, intent th$t th$t $ not thec$e $n" th$t the' ou" contro Dr. !urr$'8

A. So4e of the e&i"ence point to th$t# 'e.

/. So 'ou,re eihin the e&i"ence8

A. !' opinion i $e" on $ of the e&i"ence.

/. A of the e&i"ence +$intiff, coune $&e 'ou8

A. 7e.

/. ut not $ of the e&i"ence th$t, een preente" to the =ur' in thi c$e8

A. Not $ of the e&i"ence the =ur' h$ recei&e"# no.

/. O$'. An" 'ou ou" $ree th$t the =ur'# ho h$ een here for I "on,t no ho 4$n' 4onthno# i in the et poition to e&$u$te the e&i"ence in thi c$e# riht8

Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm !our honor.

-ud)e$ &erruled.

A. 7e.

/. No# $u4in 99 it $ $o proe4$tic# $n" e t$e" $out thi $ ot# $n" I "on,t $nt to othrouh thi too 4uch $$in 99 it, proe4$tic to 'ou th$t the "r$ft contr$ct cou" e ter4in$te" if thetour c$ncee" or potpone"# riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" in 'our 4in"# th$t, $nother e' proe4 ith it8

A. 7e.

/. ut the $ree4ent "oen,t reuire th$t Dr. !urr$' e ter4in$te" if the tour i potpone"# riht8

A. It "oen,t reuire it# 'e$h# correct.

/. It, poie th$t the tour cou" e potpone" for $ hort perio" $n" Dr. !urr$' cou" ret$in hipoition8

A. It, poie.


69/130

/. An" it, poie th$t the tour cou" e potpone"# Dr. !urr$' cou" $o e potpone"# $n" then$ter on the tour cou" e reint$te" $n" Dr. !urr$' ou" h$&e hi poition $$in# riht8

A. It, poie# 'e.

/. An" 'ou ou" $ree ith 4e th$t in $n' e&ent# Dr. !urr$' 4$e 4ore 4one' if the tour oe

for$r" $n" !r. J$con i he$th' the entire ti4e# riht8

A. 7e.

/. An" th$t e&en if the tour ere potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' h$" to co4e $c $n" "o the tour# heou" ti 4$e 4ore 4one' if the tour $te" $ oner ti4e# riht8

A. I,4 not ure I foo th$t.

/. Let, $' h'pothetic$' the tour i potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' "oen,t o on tour ith !r. J$con inthe u44er of 200. I there $n' re$on to eie&e th$t !r. J$con ou" then not $nt Dr. !urr$' ontour hen he ent on tour $ fe 4onth $ter8

A. No. Fe 4$' ti h$&e $nte" to# correct.

/. So it ou" ti e in Dr. !urr$', interet to eep !r. J$con he$th' $n" in $ oo" $ h$pe $ hecou"# riht8

A.


70/130

A. It, poie# 'e.

/. In $n' e&ent# he ou" e $ic$' in o4eh$t the poition he $ efore he ent on the tour#riht8

A. +reu4$'.

/. An" 'ou tetifie" e$rier th$t 'ou thouht !r. 99 or Dr. !urr$', $$r' of H150#000 $ 4onth# thep$nne" $$r'# $ e)cei&e' hih# riht8

A. 7e.

/. ut $n,t p$rt of the pre4iu4# $t e$t $ccor"in to Dr. !urr$'# "eine" to 4iti$te the effect ofc$nce$tion8

A. I,4 not $$re of th$t co44unic$tion.

/. So 'ou,re not $$re of teti4on' here Dr. !urr$' to" !r. Gon$$re th$t he nee"e" e)tr$ 4one'ec$ue he h$" to i&e up hi pr$ctice# $n" th$t ou" 99 th$t ou" e $""ition$ cot for hi48

A. I,4 not $$re of th$t pecific$'.

/. If 'ou ere $$re of th$t# ou" th$t $ter 'our opinion in $n' $'8

A. No.

/. Jut nothin i $ter 'our opinion in $n' $'# riht8

Mr. #loss$ &'ection> ar)umentatie !our honor.

-ud)e$ %ustained.

he itness$ hat ouldn;t.

Ms. %teins$ &a!.

/. No# in or"er to e en$e" for the tour# the "r$ft contr$ct th$t e ere =ut ooin $t reuire" th$tDr. !urr$' h$&e $ icene to pr$ctice in Lon"on# correct8

A. Correct.

/. No# I cou"n,t hep 99 'eter"$' 'ou t$e"

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