Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 14 OCTOBER 1959

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

632 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

WEDNESDAY, 14 OCTOBER, 1959

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. A. R. Fletcher, Cunningham) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS

HOUSING COMMISSION TENANTS AND TELEVISION

Mr. DUGGAN (North Toowoomba­Leader of the Opposition) asked the Treasurer and Minister for Housing--

"(1) Was it at his direction or alterna­tively with his concurrence that a circular was issued recently to tenants of the Housing Commission, threatening notice to evict in seven days if immediate payment was not made of declared arrears, and one week's advance rent?"

"(2) Was this circular sent only to ten­ants who had applied for and were granted permission to instal Television?"

"(3) Is it a fact that some tenants served with the circular were not in arrears, that some had arrears of less than one pound and that others who received the circular were actually in credit?"

"(4) Was the issue of circulars restricted to those tenants declared to be in arrears two weeks and under, who had Television permits from the Commission?"

"(5) In view of his indication in answer to my question of August 12, that tenants installing Television were to be treated differently from those purchasing motor cars, pianos, &c., because the installation of Television could involve structural fit­tings to Commission houses, does not the Commission police such installations to its satisfaction?"

"( 6) If so, is it not a fact that tenants who have installed Television on permit and in accordance with the Commission's requirements are now being subjected to discriminatory treatment and that scores of Television-owning tenants have officially complained that they are being persecuted by the Commission?"

Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo) replied-"(1 to 6) The circular was not issued at

my direction or with my concurrence. The matters and the circular referred to were brought to my notice on 9th instant by the Honourable Member for Sherwood, who also instanced five cases, which estab­lished an excessive recovery effort on the part of the Queensland Housing Commis­sion. Of the cases brought to the notice of the Queensland Housing Commission, one case was in credit to the extent of 12s., one in credit to the extent of £3 3s., one was not in arrear. The circular was sent to some tenants who, though in arrears at the time, were making regular fortnightly or monthly payments. I immediately sent for the Commissioner and indicated my displeasure that the circular had been sent. I issued a direction on the spot that the Commission should avoid irritation to the good tenant, but should press the really bad payers. I propose to personally review the whole of the procedures relating to rent recovery. The overall position provides a constant danger. Arrears now regularly hover around the £90,000 level and are still tending to rise. The failure to collect this money is at the expense of house construction and I cannot afford to allow arrears to continue to grow. Having said that, I regard it as particularly unfortunate that the pressure of collection should have presented a picture of misdirected effort, irritating the good tenant, without bringing the bad tenant to book. I can assure the Honour­able Gentleman that I believe there will be no repetition of this type of incident."

Questions [14 OCTOBER] Questions 633

F!XAT!O~ OF SALARIES AND WAGES OF CROWN EMPLOYEES

Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) asked the Minister for Transport-

"(1) Is it a fact that the Public Service Commissioner and other representatives of the Government recently met the repre­sentatives of the various unions in the Public Service and that as a result an agreement was reached as to salaries and working conditions, which agreement was subsequently registered by the Arbitration Court?"

"(2) Is it a fact that salaried employees of the Commissioner for Railways were also granted salary increases following this agreement with the Public Service Unions?"

"(3) Is it a fact that the Commissioner for Railways has refused to meet Union Representatives of the manual and black­shirt workers employed in the Railway Department to discuss an agreement as to their wages and working conditions?"

"(4) lf so, will he inform the House if his Government has one policy for their white-collar workers and another for their black-shirt workers?"

Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) replied-

"(1 to 4) It is a fact that the Govern­ment granted certain salary increases to officers of the Public Service and that these increases were applied to salaried officers in the Railway Department con­sidered to have similar responsibilities to those officers who obtained such increases in the Public Service. The Railway Unions made application to the Industrial Court for th:~ granting of wages and other increases for wages employees and at the direction of the Court a conference was held with the Union representatives, the Commissioner being represented thereat by his Industrial Officer. No agreement was reached at the Conference, and, con­sequently, the matter is now one for deter­mination by the Court."

0PENl?.;G OF MITCHELTON STATE HIGH SCHOOL

Ml'. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Minister for Education-

"(1) On what date did the Department of Education advise the Mitchelton State High School Parents and Citizens Welfare Association that the High School would be officially opened on Saturday, October 10, 1959?"

"(2) Is he aware that the Mitchelton State High School is in the Kedron Elec­torate and was opened at the commence­ment of the 1956 school-year as a result of my representations to the then Labour Government as the Parliamentary Repre­sentative?"

"(3) Is there any connection between the fact that the school was "officially" opened by the Honourable Member for Mt. Coot­tha on the occasion of his first visit, com­plete with inscribed plaque, on Saturday last and the fact that it is proposed by the Electoral Commission to place this school in the Mt. Coot-tha electorate following the redistribution, against which, by the way, I have registered an appeal?"

"(4) In view of the fact that this "official" opening was requested by the Minister on the occasion of the 1958 Annual Speech-night, is it his intention to "officially" open, complete with inscribed plaque, all State Primary and High Schools opened since 1946, or would this be too much even for a Government, whose only claim to fame has been that it has "offici­ally" opened, complete with inscribed plaques, all projects commenced by Labour Governments?"

"(5) Can he explain the reason why an invitation to me, as Member for the dis­trict, was delayed until fourteen days before the opening and was not received by me at Mt. Isa until October 5, particularly in view of the fact that the Parents and Citizens' Association had nothing to do with the forwarding of official invitations?"

Hon. J. A. HEADING (Marodian-Min­ister for Public Works and Local Govern­ment), for Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (lsis), replied-

"(1) In reply to an official request made by the Mitchelton State High School Parents and Citizens' Association, the Association was advised on July 16, 1959, that the school would be officially opened on October 10, 1959-a date requested by the Association itself."

"(2) I am aware of the location of the Mitchelton State High School. I am also aware of the Honourable Member's interest in this school but I would remind him that, since this Government took office, the establishment of any new school has been solely for the purpose of meeting the educational needs of the children of the district concerned."

"(3) No. The school was opened by the Deputy Premier of the State, acting in his official capacity as a Minister of the Crown."

"(4) I have always extended every courtesy to the Honourable Member in matters connected with his elector­ate. I regret that the Honourable Member has seen fit to make a poli· tical issue of the matter. The implica­tion contained in this and previous ques­tions is unworthy of the Honourable Mem­ber. The Honourable Member's attitude is all the more regrettable in view of the fact that my colleague, the Deputy Premier, during the course of his opening speech, referred to him in complimentary terms and expressed his personal regret that the

634 Questions [ASSEMBLY) Questions

Honourable Member's official duties as Deputy Leader of the Opposition prevented him from being present."

"(5) No. Invitations to openings of schools are not issued by the Department of Education."

WATER CHARGES, BARRON RIVER TOBACCO FARMERS

Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation-

"(1) What was the basis used by the Irrigation Commission in imposing water charges upon Barron River tobacco farmers who for years have been utilising the natural flow of the Barron for irrigation purposes by means of their own pumping gear and irrigation lines?"

"(2) In assessing the charge of £4 per acre as compared with £1 per acre at Emerald Creek and £4 per acre foot in other irrigation areas where no pumping equipment is required, was consideration given to the high costs entered into by the Barron River tobacco farmers for the installation and maintenance of their own irrigation equipment?"

"(3) In view of the fact that the Barron River tobacco growers must meet annual charges for their own irrigation equipment which have been audited at a minimum of £11 per acre where the grower is favour­ably situated and up to £43 per acre where the grower has to pump water up to 1 t miles, does he not consider that the £4 per acre charge places these growers in a most unfavourable position as compared with farmers in the areas served by gravity irrigation from channel lines direct from the Tinaroo Falls dam?"

"(4) What is the proportion of water that will be utilised annually by the Barron River farmers as compared with the amount of water required annually to serve the proposed Barron River Hydro-electric project and is it proposed to charge the Cairns Regional Electricity Board for water on a similar basis to that of the tobacco growers?"

"(5) Are the differential charges imposed on all farmers served from the Tinaroo Falls Dam imposed for the purpose of covering interest and redemption and maintenance costs?"

"(6) Is he aware that the flow of water available to Barron River farmers has decreased to below normal since the com­pletion of the Tinaroo Falls Dam to such an extent that some farmers have been forced to purchase new and costly equipment?"

Hon. A. G. MULLER (Fassifern) replied-"Before proceeding to answer the

specific questions asked, it is desired to pro­vide the following background information in respect of rights to the use of water in the Barron River and charges for water in

the Mareeba-Dimbulah Irrigation Area, including the Barron River. Many years ago the Cairns Regional Electricity Board 3cquired rights to the use of water in the Barron River for the generation of hydro­electric power at Barron Falls. Irrigators along the Barron River were licensed to divert water from the stream up to a stage where the demand for irrigation com­menced to seriously reduce available sup­plies to the Barron Falls Hydro­Electric Station. At this stage restrictions were placed on the issue of further licences for diversion from this stream for irriga­tion purposes. When the construction of Tinaroo Falls Dam was proposed, arrange­ments were made with the Cairns Regional Electricity Board that they would retain the right to use of water that they would normally have obtained had the dam not been constructed. These rights have been preserved in respect of the proposed Barron River Hydro Electric Extension Project now under construction. The necessity for restricting the issue of licences for irrigation may not have been apparent in the vicinity of Mareeba but was adequately illustrated by the many occasions when the existing Barron Falls Station had inadequate water to operate at full capacity. With the construction of Tinaroo Falls Dam, the Crown has exercised its rights to conserve the Barron River waters and distribute it throughout the Irrigation Area, and people through­out that area now have equal rights to those on the Barron River to share in that water. The right to utilise water available is a most valuable one as indicated by a difference in value of at least £30 per acre between land with irrigation water avail­able and land without water. A reasonable fee for this right is considered clearly justified. Having regard to this back­ground, the specific questions asked are answered as follows:-

"(1) Water charges have been fixed on the basis that the total revenue obtained after full development must be sufficient to meet operation, maintenance and administration costs, and to provide a small contribution of something less than 1 per cent. towards the capital cost of the works. Charges for supply within the irrigation area were varied to take account of the service provided and the work entailed in providing supply under the various conditions of supply as follows-(a) for supply direct from the channel system-£4 per acre foot or approximately £8 per acre according to usage; (b) for supply obtained by pumping from streams supplemented from the Tinaroo Falls Dam, namely Walsh River, _Granite Creek and the Barron River, where a completely assured supply is available-£4 per acre or approximately £2 per acre foot; (c) for obtaining supply by diversion from streams where small weirs have been provided and where a partially assured

Questions [14 OcTOBER] Questions 635

supply can be obtained-£! per acre or approximately 10s. per acre foot; (d) where supply is obtained by diver­sion from streams where no storages are available, and where there is no assurance of supply-6s. per acre or approximately 3s. per acre foot."

"(2) As indicated in (1) the charges of £4 per acre for pumping were based on the requirement to obtain sufficient revenue to give a small surplus over operation, maintenance and administra­tion costs. Consideration was given to the costs incurred by Barron River, Walsh River and Granite Creek tobacco farmers for installation and operation of their own pumping equipment, and con­sequently the charge for a completely assured supply was fixed at approxi­mately one-half of that for supply direct from the channel system. It was fixed higher than that on Emerald Creek because on that stream the small weir available provides only a partially assured supply to irrigators who face the possibility of shortage in dry season."

"(3) In fixing charges for diversion from streams it was realised that costs of a number of Barron River farmers of diverting water to their lands was high, but the Irrigation Commission or the Government are not responsible for these high costs which the farmers them­selves have previously elected to incur in order to obtain the benefits of irri­gation water. Further the charge of £4 per acre is considered to be a very small proportion of the net returns from tobacco production which on most farms for the 1958-1959 year was in excess of £200 per acre, excluding the cost of irrigation water, especially when this is for an assurance of supply."

"(4) The proportion of water used for hydro-electric purposes as compared with that by Barron farmers will vary from year to year. Apart from the minimum quantity which the Cairns Regional Electricity Board would have received, if Tinaroo Falls Dam had not been built, supply of water from the dam will only be available for the proposed Barron River Hydro-Electric Project, while there is water surplus to irrigation requirements in the dam. Once irriga­tion demand reaches the stage that supply from Tinaroo Falls will be inadequate for the proposed new hydro-electric station it will be necessary for the Cairns Regional Electricity Board to construct a dam on Flaggy Creek to maintain supplies to Barron Falls. The use of surplus water from Tinaroo Falls will enable the Board to defer the con­struction of Flaggy Creek Dam for several years. No charge is proposed for the surplus water provided from Tinaroo Falls, but in return for the benefit derived, the provision of sub­sidy on the whole of the cost of the

Barron Falls scheme, estimated at some £10 million, has been eliminated. Thus the Regional Board will in effect pay for this water in the long run by fore­going a large sum in subsidy which would have meant more capital to be found by the Government."

"(5) As indicated under (1) the ctif­ferential charges are aimed at covering operation, maintenance and administra­tion costs and a small excess which will not meet normal interest and redemption charges."

"(6) Sufficient flow is being maintained in the Barron River by releases from Tinaroo Falls Dam to provide for requirements to existing Barron Falls Hydro-Electric Station. This ensures that all irrigators on it have adequate supplies of water since they are between the dam and tbe power station. As a result of regulation of flow some small reduction in level of flow could occur in certain stretches of the river requiring some minor adjustment of pumping arrangements. These should not require new and costly equipment, unless irri­gators are providing to serve larger irrigated areas."

SALE OF PERPETUAL TOWN LEASES, BRIBIE ISLAND

Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation-

"With reference to the public auction as perpetual town leases of allotments of land at Bribie Island held at Lands Office, Bris­bane, on Tuesday, September 22, 1959,-

(1) Is he aware that an auctioneer and commission agent or his representative was present at that auction for the sole purpose of forcing bidding up to an inflated level?

(2) Will he advise the names of the people who participated in that auction by permission of the Governor in Council or the Government as trustees for other persons or organisations together with the names of persons or organisations on whose behalf they acted?

(3) Will he take steps to ensure that in future auctions of perpetual town leases only bona fide purchasers are allowed to participate in the bidding?"

Hon. A. G. MULLER (Fassifern) replied­"(1) No." "(2) No request was received to enable

purchases to be made by trustees nor was any permission granted by the Governor in Council. Under the provisions of Section 121 of the Land Acts permission for a trustee to bid for or acquire a Perpetual Town Lease may only be granted by the Governor in Council and not by the Government."

636 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Que8lwns

"(3) There is no evidence whatsoever that any attempt was made at the sale of the Bribie allotments by any person to purchase an allotment in trust for another. Any intending purchaser may arrange with any person to bid and act for him at a sale, this being the practice allowed by successive Governments at least since the commencement of 'The Land Act of 1910'."

TENDERS FOR DOG SPIKES FOR THE RAILWAY DEPARTMENT

Mr. DONALD (Bremer), for Mr. MANN (Brisbane), asked the Minister for Trans­port-

"(1) When were tenders called for the supply of Dog Spikes for the Railway Department?"

"(2) How many tenders were received from-(a) local firms, and (b) others out­side Queensland?"

"(3) Was the contract given to a Southern firm and, if so, what is the name of the firm?"

"(4) What is the amount of the con­tract?"

Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) replied-

"(! to 4) Tenders for the supply of dog spikes closed on July 22, 1959. One tender was received for manufacture in Brisbane and one for manufacture in the South. The tender of McPhersons Limited, Brisbane, was accepted for manufacture of the dog spikes in the South because the price tendered by the Queensland manufacturer was in excess of the price quoted by McPhersons Limited after allowing the recognised margin of preference for Queensland manufacture. The amount of the contract was £59,818 15s."

SUGGESTED NEW HIGH SCHOOL AT MANLY

Mr. GUNN (Wynnum) asked the Minister for Education-

"In view of the increased enrolment at the Wynnum State High and Intermediate School which now exceeds 1,000 students and the very limited accommodation avail­able for the 1960 school year, will he con­sider the advisability of constructing a new High School on the site acquired for this purpose at Whites Road, Manly, and utilise the existing buildings for Intermedi­ate purposes?"

Hon. J. A. HEADING (Marodian-Mini­ster for Public Works and Local Government), for Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis), replied-

"The most recent survey indicates that the accommodation at Wynnum will be adequate for 1960. The position will be reviewed again during 1960."

STATE HIGH SCHOOL SITES

Mr. GUNN (Wynnum) asked the Minister for Education-

"How many State High School sites have been acquired by the Department of Educa­tion during the period July 1, 1957, to September 30, 1959, and where are these sites situated in Queensland?"

Hon. J. A. HEADING (Marodian-Mini­ster for Public Works and Local Government), for Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis), replied-

"During the period in question resump­tion notice was issued or transfer docu­ments registered for the acquisition of thirteen (13) State High School sites. These sites are located at-Mackay, Bundaberg, Mount Lofty (Toowoomba), Mount Gravatt, Ashgrove, Sandgate, Sunnybank, Gatton, Charleville, Inala, Home Hill, Theodore, Cleveland. In addition, the acquisition of sites at the following places is under consideration:-Stafford, Chermside West, Caboolture, Stanthorpe."

FREIGHT CONCESSIONS FOR DROUGHT RELIEF, CENTRAL QUEENSLAND

Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) asked the Treasurer and Minister for Housing-

"(!) Has any action been taken by the Government to declare any areas in Central Queensland for the purpose of granting freight concessions on fodder, stock, etc., in connection with drought relief?"

"(2) If no action has yet been taken and in view of the serious position existing in the area referred to, will he take immediate steps to offer drought relief to those affected, as is usually offered in such cir­cumstances?"

Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo) replied-"(! and 2) At present there are no areas

declared as drought-stricken in the Central Western portion of the State and no recent requests to declare any such areas have been received, although representations have been made by the Honourable Member for Mackenzie. The fact that an area has not been declared drought­stricken does not preclude the granting of rebates on railway freights for the convey­ance of starving stock from drought­stricken properties or for the conveyance of fodder to feed stock on drought-stricken properties. Any owner of stock desiring such a rebate should complete the form provided for that purpose, which form may be obtained from station-masters, and submit it to the General Manager of the Division for his consideration. It is usual to have such applications confirmed by the local stock inspector. I know of no instances where any difficulty has been experienced in securing a rebate where the circumstances warrant it."

Supply [14 OcTOBER] Supply 637

NEW GENERAL WARD BLOCK, BOWEN HosPITAL

Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) asked the Mini­ster for Health and Home Affairs-

"Have plans and specifications for the New General Ward Block at the Bowen Hospital been finalised and incorporated in Working Drawings yet? If so, when is it expected that work on the construction of the building will be commenced?"

Hon. H. W. NOBLE (Yeronga) replied-"Approval has been given for working

drawings and ~pecifications to be prepared, and the archrtects have been asked to expedite this work to the maximum extent. It is hoped that calling of tenders will be possible early in the New Year."

PAPERS

The following paper was laid on the table and ordered to be printed:- '

Report of the State Children Department for the year 1958-1959.

The following papers were laid on the table:-

Report of the State Stores Board for the year 1958-1959.

Orders in Council under the Primary Pro­ducers' Organisation and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1957.

SUPPLY

COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT­RESUMPTION OF DEBATE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, Clayfield, in the chair.)

Debate resumed from 13 October (see p. 632) on Mr. Hiley's motion-

"That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the service of the year 1959-1960, a sum not exceeding £1,339 to defray the salary of Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency the Governor."

Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (11.23 a.m.): Before discussing the Financial Statement as pre­sented by the Treasurer, I should like to take the opportunity of commenting on some of the speeches made yesterday and, in par­ticular, the remarks of the hon. member for South Brisbane about the Leader of the Opposition and the Treasurer. It was rather interesting to hear the hon. member for South Brisbane commend the Treasurer for his treatment of the £1,500,000 in the Succession and Stamp Duties Suspense Account. Although I intend to attack the Financial Statement I think it necessary to refer to some of the failings in the financial policy of the previous Government which gave rise to wholesale dismissals of men from the Queensland Housing Commission, the Department of Public Works and the Forestry Department in the years 1952-1953

and 1955-1956. In my view it ill becomes the hon member for South Brisbane to con­gratulate the Treasurer on the £1,500,000 in the Succession and Stamp Duties Suspense Account. If that money is available now, surely to goodness it was available then for the avoidance of unemployment.

In the past two years the Government have transferred Trust and Special Funds to the Consolidated Revenue Account to offset overdrafts in that account. Many of these reserves in the form of Trust and Special Funds were readily available. To my way of thinking if moneys are available they should be utilised for the purpose for which they have been husbanded. In the years when there is a shortage they should be used to provide full employment if possible. It is unfortunate that these things have happened in the past.

I cannot congratulate the Treasurer on the compilation of the Budget on this occasion. Financial Statements at all times are designed to give information to the general public and the business community and to give a brief summary of the governmental works that have been carried out. Unfortunately the present Treasurer has not seen fit to do that on this occasion. He has made the tables available from which the information can be gleaned but that is not exactly an expeditious method of getting the informa­tion.

The Treasurer referred to the increased tax reimbursement, the alteration of the formula and many other matters. We can criticise the Treasurer and his Government in their approach to Commonwealth-State financial relationship. The Treasurer's attitude has been inconsistent. When he and the Premier returned from the South after the last Loan Council meeting the Treasurer endeavoured to convince the people of Queensland that the position was quite satis­factory. The Premier went further and said that the star of Federation was now in the ascendancy. But apparently the Treasurer has altered his opinion since because he has given the Committee evidence of a completely altered frame of mind. The attitude of previous Labour Governments to this vexed matter has not adversely affected the financial position of Queensland. They fought for everything they could get to achieve financial stability so necessary in Queensland. But the Premier, the Treasurer and the Cabinet generally are not prepared to adopt a similar attitude; they prefer the more gentle approach, but with not a great deal of success. It has been said that we have received extra money this financial year. Maybe we have received a slightly larger quota under the tax formula but how essential it has been when we consider the increases in costs that have been created by the vicious spiralling of prices followed by increased wages in the last two years, By automatic adjustments the basic wage has increased by 21s. a week because of the relinquishing of price and rent control. All these adverse

638 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Suppty

features have vitally affected the working people in the community and the value of their wages. They also have affected the Government in higher administration costs. Therefore, overall it was essential that there should be an increase in the Commonwealth's contribution to the State. We cannot altogether agree with the Treasurer that he should relinquish any argument about the validity of pay-roll tax and any claims for a supplementary grant in favour of an alteration in the formula. Certainly the formula is not unfavourable, compared with last year and the year before. It is necessary to consider the matter in detail. In 1948 Queensland received 16 per cent. of the allocation from tax reimbursement compared with the present 14.5 per cent. Our position in relation to the other States has deteriorated over the period of ten years. While Labour Govern­ments were in power we did voiciferously claim that we were unjustly treated. We endeavoured to have things altered, and we succeeded in getting supplementary grants. It is not sufficient for the Treasurer to state that because he and the other Treasurers were prepared to relinquish their claims for the abolition of the Pay Roll Tax and supple­mentary grants that they were able to have this formula. I do not think the people will be satisfied when they realise the high cost of the Pay Roll Tax to the States. The State Governments do not pay sales tax, for one reason only-because the Commonwealth Government could not force them to pay. The validity of the Pay Roll Tax could also be challenged. We are not so greatly con­cerned with the tax reimbursement formula, but we are concerned with the attitude of the Government and their policy. They should give to the people the type of Govern­ment the people want-a Government respon­sible to the electorate, one that will fight in the interests of the people. It is little satis­faction for the people to know that we are being unjustly treated if our representatives go to loan council meetings and Premiers conferences without being prepared to fight in their interests. A change must be brought about in the next twelve months if the people are to receive justice at the hands of the Commonwealth. Queensland over the past ten years has been placed in a serious financial position regarding the allocation of loan moneys to the State and Local Authorities. I shall refer to some figures given to the Com­mittee on a previous occasion by the Treas­urer; they are very revealing. The figures for loan indebtedness of States per head of population as at 30 June last year are as follows:-

Tasmania South Australia Western Australia New South Wales Queensland Victoria

£ s. d. 448 12 0 342 9 4 322 18 6 221 11 3 210 13 5 197 3 10

Those figures show that Queensland is the second lowest. Although Queensland is recognised through Australia as having the greatest potential of any of the States and is the northern bastion of this country, and is producing 25 per cent. of the national income, our loan indebtedness is the second lowest in the Commonwealth-next to that of Tasmania which has a budget less than that of the City of Brisbane. We are faced with the most serious position with which any Government could be confronted.

To analyse the position we must go back to the inception of the Financial Agreement in 1927. The agreement had the desired effect of preventing competition between States on overseas loan markets with conse­quent spiralling of interest charges. It brought stability in the raising of loans by the States and the Commonwealth. At that time and when it was eventually incorporated in the Commonwealth Constitution the formula for loan allocations was based on a distribution of 25 per cent. of loan moneys to the Commonwealth Government, the bal­ance to be divided among the States accord­ing to the loan expenditure on works only by them in the previous five years. It followed that a State which had been spending extravagantly per­haps in that period great sums of loan money on developmental work was in a much better position than other States with lower expendi­ture on such work.

I come now to the period following the first war, 1927-1932. In one way Queensland was fortunate in that the McCormack Labour Government were able to float a loan of approximately £6,000,000 in the United King­dom. In 1929 that money was available to the Government. I am not speaking in a political sense when I say that unfortunately for Queensland the Commonwealth Govern­ment at that time persuaded the Queensland Government to offset deficits with the credit balance in the loan account. An amount of £2,000,000 in addition was loaned to the South Australian Government. While every other State was financing its deficit by the issue of Treasury bills, the Queensland Government were financing their deficit from the credit balance in the loan account, and therefore the loan expenditure in Queensland during the period, 1929-1932, was com­mensurately lower.

We recovered steadily until the last war from the unsatisfactory basis of allocation in those years. The Queensland Government found themselves in a fortunate position financially following the war years. When they were not able to spend the money the Post-War Reconstruction and Development Fund as well as many other trust funds were in credit, and developmental work, instead of being financed from the loan account, was financed to a large extent from trust funds.

Accordingly Queensland had to accept the loan council allocation. If unanimous agree­ment at loan council meetings is not arrived

Supply [14 OCTOBER] Supply 639

at, the allocation for Queensland would be in accordance with the formula, a most unfavourable basis for the State.

The principle of the Financial Agreement is sound, but the basis of the formula has been unfavourable to Queensland. Unless the formula is altered, we may have to wait years before the position improves. We may perhaps have to cheat by transferring moneys to the loan account and spending that money so that we can then go to the loan council meetings and say, "As that is the expendi­ture from the loan fund account during the last five years, we want our allocation to be comparable with the allocation to other States based on the formula." It may take years to secure an improvement in the alloca­tion. In the meantime developmental work must be sacrificed.

The time is opportune for a very vigorous attempt by the Government for a further amendment of the Financial Agreement. They should insist on a conference for that pur­pose. The last amendment was passed by the Queensland Parliament 14 years ago. Conditions have changed, and as conditions change so legislation must be altered to cope with the new conditions. Until the whole basis of the financial agreement is altered we will be in the position of being unable to carry out the necessary developmental work.

Some points raised by the Treasurer in the presentation of his Budget are very interesting. One that struck me forcibly was in relation to the growth of the loan indebt­edness of the States. It gives hon. members an indication of how money can be spent during times of emergency and how at other times money is not spent. We find that in 1913-1914 the per capita loan indebtednes of the States and the Commonwealth was £87, but in 1918-1919, during four years of war the loan indebtedness jumped to £138 Ss. 9d., an increase of £51 per head of population. Twenty years later the per capita loan indebtedness had reached a figure of £170 17s. 2d. It can be seen that in 20 years of peace the loan indebtedness showed an increase of only £32 per capita. A similar position was again reached in 1938-1939 and in 1945-46 when the loan indebtedness per head of population was £365 6s. 5d., an increase of £195 per head. Ten years later, in 195~-1958 there was a total loan indebtedness of £377 14s. 10d. or an increase of only £11 per head in a 10-year period whereas during the war period there was an increase of £195. Money was found during the short periods of war, but during times of peace there was an attempt made to pay off the debts of war. In the post-war development period we have not had sufficient courage to develop this country as it should be. Over the same period we find that countries such as Germany and Japan have been able to rehabilitate themselves by the expenditure of money. We on the other hand have to go on our hands and knees to Germany to borrow £30,000,000 for the reconstruction of the Mt. !sa line. Again we find Japanese

industrialists coming to this country endeav­ouring to invest money in our industries. We have been unable to invest any more in the post-war years than about £11 per head of population. What would have happened had the war continued? There was an increase of £195 per head of population during a period of five years and I dare say the figure would have reached £400. It would have been necessary to spend money in an endeavour to save ourselves. It makes one wonder who won the war. Have we had the courage to develop this country'? Labour Governments in the past found money for development such as when it was neces­sary to build the trans-continental railway line. It was only necessary at that time for the Commonwealth Bank to find the money. I do not know whether the money was ever repaid and I do not suppose anybody cares whether it was. Such a large project was instituted and financed by the Common­wealth Bank. A Federal Labour Govern­ment established the Commonwealth Bank in an endeavour to ensure that the savings of the people of this country would be in­vested in the development of Australia. If that money is not to be utilised for such a purpose it would be the same as an ordinary trading bank and so its original purpose would be lost.

The Treasurer's Financial Statement achieves very little. He went to a great deal of trouble to tell us that he has been able to transfer moneys from Trust and Special Funds to offset an overdraft in Con­solidated Revenue. An amount of £3,500,00'' has been transferred from the Unemployment Insurance Fund, which has been lying idle for many years. It could have been used years ago for some useful purpose.

Mr. Wordsworth interjected.

Mr. LLOYD: I entirely agree with the hon. member. We have been very outspoken about it. Time and time again we have said that that money should be used for some useful purpose. However, in the actual result the transfer of these moneys makes very little difference to Queensland's real financial position. It is simply robbing Peter to pay Paul, and leaves the State in no better financial position than before. For example, at the end of 1955-1956 our total cash reserves and investments were £17,000,000, in 1957-1958 they were £16,000,000, and in 1958-1959 they were approximately the same. In other words our actual cash balances and investments have not altered greatly. It merely means that instead of having an over­draft in Consolidated Revenue and cash bal­ances in Trust and Special Funds, the over­draft in Consolidated Revenue has been wiped out with a corresponding reduction in the cash balances of the Trust and Special Funds. In reality, the Treasurer has achieved nothing. He may have tidied the accounts up from the point of view of an accountant, but why go through all this talk when, in fact, nothing of any substance has been achieved?

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My real criticism is not only of this Gov­ernment's attitude towards the Commonwealth Government, but also of this Government's policy. They have found it necessary over the past couple of years to increase taxation upon industry generally, and quite a few people have suffered as the result. I asked a question on the matter this morning. The Tinaroo Falls Dam was built for the specific purpose of irrigating farm properties. The previous Government intended to settle an additional I ,400 farmers on irrigated land within the vicinity of the dam, but this Government have decided that it is inadvisable to settle more than 50 additional tobacco farmers. When the matter was raised with them they said, "We cannot settle farmers in the area to grow vegetables or other crops because there is no market for them." I point out, however, that on the latest figures issued by the Com­monwealth Statistician, Queensland's imports of vegetables and vegetable oils far exceed her exports. Although we have to go to the other States for ordinary vegetables like pota­toes, the Government assert that they cannot settle more farmers in the Tinaroo Falls Dam area because there is no market for their products. How can they reconcile their deci­sion with the Commonwealth Statistician's figures? The Government are adopting a defeatist attitude and a negative approach to the very vital problem of populating North Queensland. It may be, of course, that they are merely seeking an excuse for delaying the construction of a dam at Flaggy Creek. In all probability, to my way of thinking, the Government have adopted this attitude so that they can go ahead with the Barron River hydro-electric scheme and they will be taking from the Tinaroo Falls dam water that was originally intended for irrigation and will be using it for generating hydro-electricity for many years to come so that it will not be necessary to construct a new dam at Flaggy Creek for some time.

Mr. Gilmore: There is plenty of water for irrigation.

Mr. LLOYD: The hon. member says there is plenty of water for irrigation but the Premier, the Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation and the Minister for Agriculture and Stock have all stood up here and said, "We cannot settle all these farmers because there is no market for their production."

Mr. Gilmore: That is not right.

Mr. LLOYD: Oh yes it is. You read "Hansard." You will find it there.

Mr. Gilmore: Those statements were never made.

Mr. LLOYD: When the hon. member for Cook some time later suggested a cannery at Cairns, the Premier interjected and said, "Where are you going to sell the product? There is no market."

Mr. Gilmore: Subsequent events proved that he was perfectly right.

Mr. LLOYD: Obviously the Government's attitude is to prevent the settlement of the additional farmers by using the water for hydro-electricity and the Flaggy Creek Dam will not be built for many years.

Mr. Aikens interjected.

Mr. LLOYD: It is the same with every other aspect of this Government's adminis­tration. There is supposed to be a surplus of production of pineapples and vegetables but there is only one reason; nobody has ever attempted to exploit the home market.

Mr. Aikens: People have not got the money to buy it.

Mr. LLOYD: The people have not got those products in some centres. In other words, the home market has been neglected and the Government are mostly responsible for it.

Let me return to the subject of the Tinaroo Falls dam and the water that is being used for irrigation purposes. The Barron River tobacco growers feel that they cannot afford to pay the charge of £4 an acre demanded of them. They think it unfair compared with charges made else­where. The water comes from a natural watercourse. They have to spend anything up to £11,000 on capital items to drag water anything up to 160 feet above the Barron and anything up to 1 i miles away. Elsewhere people are charged only £1 an acre. The Barron River farmers would be prepared to pay £4 an acre-foot if the Government would accept responsibility for conveying the water to their properties as in the case of land that has been irrigated by gravity feed. Farmers settled by gravity-feed irrigation are charged from £4 an acre-foot or £8 an acre and it is a very generous charge, I should say.

Mr. Evans: You are right out of your depth.

Mr. LLOYD: No. I am not out of my depth.

Mr. Evans: You are condemning some­thing your Government did.

Mr. LLOYD: Nonsense. These people are being charged £4 an acre when they have to pay interest and redemption and maintenance charges of between £11 an acre and £43 an acre for the installation of their own pumping gear to drag the water onto their properties. Surely to goodness some con­sideration should be given to the people who have grown tobacco on the land. The hon. member for Tablelands is one who has pioneered the tobacco industry !in North Queensland. I give him full credit for that. These people have made a valuable contribution towards the economy of Australia by growing the plant. They have saved Australia a considerable amount of money in overseas credit. But many of the farmers in the area are having an unfair charge imposed upon them in comparison

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with other users of the same water. I believe that the Minister was originally sympathetic to the case made out by the deputation that met him in North Queens­land but somewhere along the line depart­mental officers have convinced him that he should not alter the charges already imposed. It makes me wonder whether if 1,400 farmers had been settled on the land as was originally intended, instead of the limited number that will now be settled, the charge would have been less. In other words because the Government are not pre­pared to use the water for irrigation purposes as was originally intended, the lesser number of farmers who are to receive the water now have to pay a higher charge.

Mr. Aikens: Is it any higher than the charge that your Government put on the farmers at Clare, Millaroo, and Dalbeg?

Mr. LLOYD: There is a difference between this one and the charge imposed at Clare of £4 per acre-foot. These tobacco growers are using their own gear to get their water. They would be quite prepared to pay even £4 per acre-foot if the water were made available to them by means of direct gravity irrigation. At Clare they were getting the water direct. For water from the Tinaroo Falls Dam they are using their own pumping gear and water­piping. There is a considerable difference in the charge. Some are charged £1 and some 10s.

Mr. Gilmore: Where is the 10s. being charged?

Mr. LLOYD: Some vegetable growers at one place are being charged 10s.-I cannot recollect where offhand. I do not know whether the water is coming from the dam itself. In most instances in the hon. member's area the charge is £1.

Mr. Gilmore: For your information it is 6s. not 10s.

Mr. LLOYD: It is cheaper than I thought then. I hope that the hon. member will speak on this subject later in the debate.

The charges imposed are an indication of how the Government are attempting to drag every possible penny out of some sections of the community.

After the Government had been in office for twelve months the Minister for Labour and Industry spoke about the committee he had formed to deal with traffic control. He declared that he intended to insist that all traffic laws be enforced and rightly so. After twelve months there was a decrease in the number of traffic accidents but after two years there was a record high in traffic accidents. I wonder if he is going to claim credit for that ! Similarly with the com­mittee he established to deal with industrial safety-after twelve months the figures showed a reduction in the accident rate in industry. He claimed great credit for that. But after two years there has been a record high accident rate in industry. Again I

1959-x

wonder if he will claim credit for that ! Wherever they can possibly get revenue from some sections of the community the Government are levying people to such an extent that money is rolling into the Treasury. State revenue amounted to approxi­mately £6 per head in 1957, but I wonder what that figure will be now? How long can the Government continue to drag money away from the community in extra charges and impositions? This year there is to be an increase in the revenue from stamp duties.

Mr. Evans: Do you remember when you doubled the motor-car registration fee?

Mr. LLOYD: My word, I do!

Mr. Evans: Go back a bit.

Mr. LLOYD: I can remember the time, not so long ago, when the fee for the author­ity to operate was increased. The people throughout the State-not only those in the cities who are suffering as a result of the in­creased costs and higher rentals-are worried about the policy of the Government. They are wondering how they will overcome the neglect of North Queensland by the Government. The attitude of the Government to the North was indicated in the redistribution of elec­torates. The North and West have been robbed of three electorates and three new electorates have been created within a radius of 150 miles of Brisbane. There will be 50 parliamentary representatives for 5 per cent. of the State of Queensland under the recent redistribution. In spite of the Govern­ment's much vaunted cry about the develop­ment of the North and the creation of a new State, that area has been robbed of representation, and the people will not have as much voice as they did under a Labour Government.

Mr. Aikens: They will still have me-the most powerful voice.

Mr. LLOYD: The loudest voice will not convince the people that they should elect the hon. member. The Government have given no indication of their intention to carry out their election promises to the people of the North, such as to give them a new State. There is not yet any sign of anything of that nature. Many petitions have been presented to the Government, but they have been shelved. That has been the general policy with recommendations to the Govern­ment. They have been regarded as being too hot and they have been set aside until after the next State election. But the Govern­ment realise that after the next election they will have no power to implement the many promises which they failed to implement when they were returned on a minority vote.

I give the Minister for Development, Mines and Main Roads credit for the work done on road construction, but it is not enough. Although the Commonwealth Government have made higher allocations to the Govern­ment for local authorities there has been a Jag in the expenditure of approximately

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£200,000 or £300,000. I do not think the Minister will deny that there are pockets of unemployment throughout the State. Every attempt should be made to pump money into local authority channels in order to absorb those who are unemployed. The policy of the Government is causing much concern to the people. There is concern about the atti­tude of the Government to large programmes that were planned by the Labour Government. The Government claim that large schemes give no immediate benefit, and they announce that they will concentrate on smaller schemes. In other words, they will undertake the building of small weirs and dams at low cost in the south-east corner of the State, dams and weirs that will eventually silt up and become problems to the Government. The policy of the Labour Government was to proceed progressively with work on large schemes such as the Tinaroo Dam, the Tully Falls scheme and so on. The first stage of the Tully scheme has been completed, and we now find that the second and third stages have been set aside.

Last year there was a considerable reduc­tion in expenditure by the Burdekin River authority. The amount has been increased this year, but two years have been wasted. The work at Koombooloomba will be com­pleted within six or nine months. The employees on that job are worried about the prospects of obtaining further work. The engineers have done a marvellous job on this day-labour project. Those Government engineers have shown themselves capable of doing the work. They are to be congratu­lated on the job they have done for the State. The Tinaroo Falls dam was con­structed by day labour, and it was com­pleted for £1,000,000 less than the original estimate.

We have capable engineers and the labour to do these jobs, but the Government have announced their intention to give to an over­seas company the work of reconstruction of the Mt. Isa railway. Investigations are being carried out by an overseas company, and undoubtedly the reconstruction of the line will be carried out by a private con­tractor.

Mr. Evans: You do not know what you are talking about.

Mr. LLOYD: That is the substance of newspaper reports. What is the reason for the delay in this work? The Government had a great deal to say about a deficit last year and the transfer of £1,500,000, the robbing of Peter to pay Paul, but £1,400,000 for Mt. Isa railway line was not used. It was trans­ferred from Consolidated Revenue to a special trust fund for the reconstruction of the Mt. Isa line. If that work was to be done by day labour why was it not commenced at that time? There was a great amount of unem­ployment early in the financial year, and I have no doubt that in November and Decem­ber unemployment throughout the State will increase.

Mr. Wordsworth: You are hoping it will.

Mr. LLOYD: I am not, but unless the Government take some positive action it will. Action is needed rather than theoretical approaches and the establishment of advisory committees in Townsville, Cairns, Mackay and so on. The unemployed know why they cannot obtain work. There is only one reason, the work is not available, and it is the duty of the Government to make money available so that these men may be employed.

It is all very well for the Government and the Minister for Development to sup­port private contracts, but they have suffi­cient evidence of the ability of officers in the construction branch of the Department of Public Works, the Department of the Co­ordinator-General and other branches to carry out work under a day-labour system at low cost. Are the Government going to stand their engineering officers aside? Are they to be made mere inspectors? Surely to goodness, these men have proved their ability to do this work, and they should be employed on it.

Mr. Evans: Tell me the department that has all contracts.

Mr. LLOYD: Not all contracts. I am talking about the Mt. Isa job. Why should that not be given to the Railway Department rather than to a private contractor?

Mr. Evans: Do you know that w;ll not be done?

Mr. LLOYD: If it is not to be done, why does not the Minister speak in that way to representatives of the Press, instead of announcing that the work will be done by contract? When the people of Queenslaf1d read those reports in newspapers, they believe them. If the Minister wishes to deny that the work will be done by contract and will give an undertaking that it will be done by day labour by the Railway Department, I shall be most happy to accept his explana­tion and assurance. That does not only con­cern this work but many other jobs.

Mr. Evans: 80 per cent. of our road works is done by day-labour.

Mr. LLOYD: In many cases local authori­ties refuse to tender; the majority of local authorities will not tender. The work is done by contract when at the same time there are unemployed in the district. There are many hon. members opposite-and I do not say that the Minister is one-particularly mem­bers of the Liberal Party, who do not believe in day-labour. I should be happy indeed to accept any assurance from the Minister for Development, Mines and Main Roads, that the reconstruction of the Mt. Isa line will be undertaken by day-labour from the Rai; way Department. The Barron River hydro­electric scheme is being constructed by con­tract but surely we have men in the depart­ments of the State who are capable of doing

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this work. The unfortunate aspect is that a great deal of the money spent on such pro­jects is not spent in the districts in which they are commenced. The money does not circulate within the areas. Surely there would be firms within an area capable of under­taking the work. They should be given pre­ference over outside contractors.

Mr. Evans: If you had a council that exceeded the estimate by £10,000 would you give it another job?

Mr. LLOYD: I am not speaking about extraordinary cases. I say again that there are hon. members on the Government side who would like to see the end of the day­labour system. Even in the Queensland Housing Commission day-labour is gradually disappearing and the contract system is taking over. Many of the projects are being done by contract.

It is true as the hon. member for Brisbane said, the Treasurer and Minister for Housing has not achieved any degree of suc.cess in housing in this State. I would be one of the first to admit it if the Minister had honestly and sincerely achieved something. Money has been diverted to home construction, but we disagree with the method by which the money has been made available. Homes are being built by building societies and other organisations but that is costly, interest charges are high, the ordinary working-man is unable to accept the facilities available. Unless the Treasurer is prepared to get down from his airy perch and face the position he will have sympathy for the people living in overcrowded conditions. Many people are unable to get homes today because they cannot buy them. Queensland is the only State in the Commonwealth where such a high proportion of the homes are sold; only a few homes are for rental purposes. Under the Bolte Government of Victoria the proportion sold is no higher than 50 per cent. or 40 per cent., and that is how it should be in Queensland too. The practice of the Government is to sell every house, in many instances even before the stumps are in the ground. Rental homes should be made available to the people. I could trace the history of housing over the past few years. Two former Ministers for Housing now sitting on the cross benches on this side of the Chamber will agree that at the end of 1955 there was every sign of the housing lag in this State disappearing. The Housing Commission was able to offer houses for rental to people on a low priority. People who were Jiving in overcrowded conditions could readily get a house.

Mr. Adair: That might have been so in Brisbane.

Mr. LLOYD: It was the case in Brisbane until the allocation of housing finance by the Commonwealth Government was halted in 1955-1956. Then the position again became worse. But until then, we were on the verge of overcoming the housing shortage.

Mr. Aikens: In Brisbane.

Mr. LLOYD: In Brisbane.

Mr. Aikens: In the North many people are living in huts and gunyahs.

Mr. LLOYD: I am well aware of that. Because of the Government's policy of

selling houses instead of renting them, many people are being forced to Jive under sub­standard conditions and in a very poor environment. I admit, of course, that we are gradually getting rid of temporary housing, which has contributed greatly towards what­ever delinquency there might be in our midst. However, it is not good enough that people should be forced to live under sub-standard conditions simply because they are unable to lay down a deposit on the purchase of a house. I hope that the Government's policy wil! be altered and that they will make avail­able a greater proportion of houses for rental.

I understand that large blocks of fiats are to be constructed in three areas of Brisbane. I do not know whether that will overcome the housing shortage completely, but I per­sonally do not think that the construction of fiats is desirable. Every family should have a house of its own to live in, and while we have the money we should spend it as far as possible in providing homes for the people

I shall deal now with housing in other parts of the State. Although the Government promised before they were elected to office that they would build houses in the North and the West, the latest figures published by the Commonwealth Statistician show a deterioration in the rate of home construction in those areas. Housing conditions there are so bad that they would never be tolerated in Brisbane and many other places. The Govern­ment should undertake immediately an energetic home-building programme to over­come a great deal of the sub-standard living conditions that exist at present in those areas.

Mt. Isa is a growing and prosperous town, yet it lacks a proper high school. The Government have boasted about the number of high schools they are building, but they are merely continuing a policy that was announced by the Labour Government in 1956. Every high school that has been built in recent years is on a site that was acquired by a Labour Government. In 1956 the Labour Government foresaw that there would be a tremendous inflow of students from primary to secondary schools with a maximum intake in 1961, and that it would be necessary to build many more high schools. I hope the present Government will never be placed in the position of having to admit that they are unable to cope with the demand for secondary edt1cation. Labour can boast that not one child in Queensland has been refused educa­tion because of a shortage of teachers or classroom accommodation, as happened in some of the southern States during the post­war years.

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During my recent visit to Mt. Isa and Cloncurry, I saw in one school two classes of small children being taught underneath the building, which must be at least 70 or 80 years old. Their so-called classroom had a concrete floor and walls of galvanised iron. Those two classrooms have been fumigated against redback spiders. Naturally the head­teachers and teachers generally are concerned about the safety of school children. The Mt. Isa Mines State School is as bad if not worse. I visited the town less than a week ago and saw the conditions for myself. Any approaches to the Department of Public Works and the Government have been ignored.

I make this challenge: if the Government are honest and sincere in their expressed desire to modernise school construction, let them establish Public Works Department depots in the north and west of Queensland to facilitate school improvements and main­tenance and to eliminate sub-standard con­ditions. There are no playgrounds. The housing position, too is entirely unsatisfactory. This is after two years of a Government that have made so many promises to the people of the north and the west. Every promise they have made has been broken. They promised to develop the North but they have neglected all the large projects planned by Labour. They are going to divert the financial resources of the State from those areas to the south-eastern corner of the State. It is obvious from the Financial Statement that the Minister has said, "We do not believe in these schemes." If the Minister does not believe in them and if his Government do not believe in them, what will happen to all the great projects? Will the people employed on them be dismissed and have to find work elsewhere? I think all those works should go ahead and the Government should not divert moneys from the north to the south­eastern corner.

Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (12.24 p.m.): During the speech of the hon. member for Kedron, to which we have just listened with considerable patience and fortitude, I alter­nated between a desire to laugh heartily, for which you would have called me to order, and to vomit, which would have made the Minister for Health and Home Affairs jump forward in the hope that the paroxysm might have proved fatal. I wanted to laugh loudest of all when the hon. member told us about the ills and the disabilities from which North Queensland suffers. You see, it is always a source of amusement to a genuine North­lander like myself when these city slickers stand up in the Chamber, only in the session before an election, and start to dilate on the raw deal that North Queensland has got over the years. The hon. member for Kedron has just returned from a Moscow-style A.L.P.­conducted tour of North Queensland lasting, I understand, three days, and consequently he knows all about it. But he will not fool any of the genuine Northlanders. They know the people who fight for them all the time.

They are able to discriminate between those people and those who climb on the northern band wagon just prior to an election.

Mr. Adair: They are a wake-up.

Mr. AIKENS: Of course they are a wake-up as the hon. member for Cook says. They are awake-up to the genuine Northlander and the false pretending North­lander. We published in a big advertise­ment during one of our election campaigns, "You have to choose between the fighters and the skiters." In the hon. member for Kedron we have had a beautiful skiter. I felt like vomiting when I listened to the hon. member for Kedron attacking the Govern­ment on their policy of allowing quite a lot of work out on contract. I have con­sistently attacked that policy ever since I have been in the chamber. When the hon. member for Kedron's Government occupied the Treasury benches they were just as con­tract happy as the present Government. He spoke of the contract to be let for the Mt. Isa line. I deplore the fact that a contract will be let, I agree with him that the job could and should be done by local day labour. But I ask him: who built the Haughton Bridge under his Government? Who built the Indooroopilly railway bridge under his Government? Who did a great deal of other work under his Government? Not only was it done by contract labour but by contract to an Italian firm that had its imported foreign workmen organised on a military compound basis, so much so that they were not allowed to spread around in the areas in which they were working and spend a bit of money there. When the hon. member for Kedron attacks the contract system-on behalf of the A.L.P., I assume -let him refrain from indulging in so much sickening, slobbe:-ing hypocrisy because it upsets me.

I wish to deal with a matter that I think is very important-the health of the com­munity and the training of young doctors. As I understand it, medical students attend the University for six years, the last year or two years being spent at a training hospital, usually the Brisbane General or perhaps the Mater hospital. After having graduated they are sent to other hospitals as resident doctors where they must serve a year as a resident doctor. At the end of that year, the Medical Superintendent at the hospital at which they have served has to issue some form of a certificate to say that they are fit and capable to be let loose on the long-suffering public. We know, of course, that the medical pro­fession is hide-bound by what they call ethics -more often they confuse ethics with etiquette, just as many people c'?nfuse dis­cipline with tyranny. If we are gomg to take a definite step forward in the interests of the preservation of life and the health of the community I really believe that we have to do all we possibly can to ensure that young doctors after having served their year as resi­dent medical officers at a recognised hospital

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know all they can possibly learn during that period. I am going to suggest and commend it to the Minister for Health and Home Affairs that every death in a public hospital in Queensland, particularly where there are resident medical doctors, be subject to a medical audit. I do not know that we can enforce that in the denominational hospitals; I do not know that we can enforce it in the private hospitals; we certainly cannot enforce it or suggest it in regard to private medical practitioners. I want it to be clearly under­stood that the purport of my speech today is not to attack the medical profession in any way at all. I regard the medical profession as a group of men containing some good ones, quite a lot of mediocre ones and some bad ones. After all, they are all human beings and all liable to error; they are all fallible. I know, of course, that many people regard a member of the medical profession as something akin to divine. They go along and blindly believe everything the doctor tells them and they blindly do everything the doctor says they should do. I know that there is virtually no limit to the gullibility and credibility of some people when it comes to dealing with members of the medical pro­fession. I know for instance-if I may intro­duce a bit of levity-if we could only get a prominent Hollywood female star to announce that she owes her beautiful complexion, her enchanting figure and her sexual appeal to the fact that she eats a bowl of dry cow dung with milk and sugar every morning that that would be the end of the dairy farmers' worry. We could then sell millions of packets of Madsen's mixture to all those who wanted to obtain beauty and sex appeal.

I wish to refer to the medical profession. I understand that when a patient goes to a public hospital, if his complaint is not a serious one, he is put under the control of a resident medical officer.

Dr. Noble: A part-time specialist sees the patient.

Mr. AIKENS: I am glad to have that inter­jection from the Minister for Health and Home Affairs. Rather than make a speech only I would prefer this to be an open debate so that we can discuss the matter. If, as the Minister says-and I accept the hon. gentleman's word-that a part-time specialist is allotted to the job, if it is an orthopaedic case or gynaelogical case or urological case, the part-time specialist would have control of the case, but the visiting and general treat­ment of the patient would be done by the young doctor under the supervision of a senior man. Sometimes the patient may come in as a personal patient of the medical super­intendent. I understand also that every fact in regard to the illness and the treatment, and all the X-ray photographs and results of the various tests that may have been taken of that patient, go to the medical registrar at each big hospital where the young fellows are training. And the medical superin­tendent, if he can spare the time, also

examines all the data in regard to the patient. Consequently if the medical registrar con­siders that something is not being done that should be done, or something is being done that should not be done, or he forms the same opinion after examining the papers and tests in connection with the case, then he approaches the doctor in charge of the case and suggests perhaps the treatment might be altered or that something else should be done.

Dr. Noble: The responsibility lies with the senior man in charge.

Mr. AIKENS: I am glad to have that inter­jection from the Minister. Some part-time specialists do not take kindly to suggestions from the medical registrar or superintendent. Let us assume a patient dies who should not have died. These things happen. I am not making any attack on the medical profession. A patient may have died as a result of an honest error in diagnosis or because of an honest error in the prescription of the treat­ment for the patient; and the only person who would know that sometimes would be the medical registrar if he happened to examine the case, or the medical superin­tendent if he happened to examine the case. Consequently, if a patient died, a patient who should not have died, the medical superintendent or the medical registrar would have a talk first of all to the part-time specialist in charge of the case and perhaps to the young resident doctor. They and they alone are the only people who know of the mistake made in regard to that patient. I have in mind the case of a woman who entered the Townsville General Hospital.

Dr. Noble: They have clinical evenings at the Townsville Hospital.

Mr. AIKENS: I shall come to that. She was examined by the young doctor

and by the part-time specialist and placed in a medical ward. The medical superin­tendent, who is an outstanding surgeon and a man who devotes 18 hours a day to his job, a man who takes an interest if he can in every patient of the hospital, happened a few days later to examine the X-ray photo­graphs of that woman. He immediately made inquiries as to what was being done for this patient, and to his consternation found she was in a medical ward, receiving certain treatment. He said, "This woman should not be in the medical ward at all. She should be in the surgical ward and should have a cer­tain operation performed on her." As it happened, it was a minor operation. Unfor­tunately, the medical superintendent was a day or two late in making this discovery. I do not know the medical term for it, but a pocket of pus formed in some part of the anatomy of this woman, it burst and the woman died.

She died as a result of an honest error of diagnosis by the part-time specialist, and as a result of an honest error in the treatment she was receiving. All who would know of

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that error would be the medical superinten­dent, the part-time specialist, possibly the registrar, and possibly the young doctor who was looking after her daily needs.

Dr. Noble: I understand that at the Towns­ville Hospital they have regular clinical evenings, and I should imagine that that case would be brought up.

Mr. AIKENS: I understand that regular clinical evenings are not what they should be. The case of every patient who dies should be analysed, even if the complaint was a common one. There may be some error in the nursing of the patient, some error in the prescription of medicine for that patient, or some error in the treatment received by that patient. The complete medical staff, when it suited their convenience, should get together and thoroughly examine all the facts of the particular case. The discussion should be free. Even if IT was the patient of the medical superintendent himself, the young doctors should be free to criticise any treat­ment-surgical, medical or otherwise-that the medical superintendent gave to his personal patient.

Dr. Noble:. He would be the first to accept it.

Mr. AIKENS: My word he would! I have never known a man with a broader view, a more advanced view, a more modern view and a more humane view of the problems of patients. I know he would welcome the sug­gestion that not only should he and the registrar and the part-time specialist and other young doctors criticise each other, but that they should be in a position to criticise him if necessary. If my suggestion was adopted, all the young doctors in the hospi­tals in which they are serving, at Townsville and in various other training hospitals throughout this State, would examine every case. They would say to themselves, ''A patient died in our hospital. Should he have died? Could we have prevented the death or could we have prolonged the life of that patient?" If they had a round-table discus­sion such as that, and were given advice and told of the experience of older men, who, too, are fallible, I think we would go a long way towards seeing that when these young men finish their period of training at the Townsville, Toowoomba, Rockhampton hospitals or elsewhere, they would be turned out to practise on the general public with as much knowledge and as much information as we could give them.

I put that suggestion very seriously to the Minister for Health and Home Affairs. I am glad he paid me the compliment of coming into the Chamber to listen to my remarks. I told him yesterday that I proposed to touch on this aspect of hospital administration in the State. It is not sufficient just for one or two doctors to know the mistakes they made, it is absolutely necessary that every doctor should know of the mistakes and particularly should the younger doctors and the older doctors know as well.

The hon. members for Mackay and Keppel, who were locomotive enginemen as I was, know that no matter how long you serve in a trade, calling or profession, there is always something you can learn-some little knack that someone has discovered which it would be wise for you to be told about. Once we set out as an administrative order that a medical audit must be held into the death of every patient in every public hospital in the State we will go a long way towards reaching that desirable state of affairs we hope that some day will be reached.

There is another matter I want to deal with, seeing that we are on the frailties of the human species, and it concerns the dental profession, particularly as it applies to the dental mechanic. We have heard a lot over the years of charlatans, fakers and whatnot. There was recently an amendment to the Medical Act, which debate gave every hon. member wide scope to express his opinion upon charlatans, faith-healers and chiro­practors and all those who practise medicine without a medical degree, but it is a fact that some do no less sterling a job than members of the medical profession and do work which they are unable or unwilliqg to do. I would not like to see us reach the stage when the practice of medicine or healing was confined only to those who hold a medical degree. I know, of course. that under the law such a man cannot call himself a doctor or hold himself out to be a doctor, but the people who go to him know that they are going to a man who does not hold a medical or surgical de­gree. In the dental profession, however, tl;1e position is quite different. Dental mechanics are trained men; they take a course at con­siderable expense to themselves. They have to spend quite a lot of time on the course and graduate as dental mechanics. Once they graduate they go to work in a dentist's sur­gery and, of course, when going to work for a dentist I think they should be as loyal to him as any employee should be loyal to his employer. But many of the dental mechanics set up in business on their own as dental mechanics, a job for which they are quali­fied and registered to do and dentists send them work from their surgery. We find that under the Dental Act if dental mechanics do any work at all, for which they are qualified and registered, directly with a patient, they breach the Dental Act. Inspectors under the Act are sent round to snoop on these men and they adopt most unsavoury tactics in their snooping. An inspector might go along to a little child going home from school and say, "Hullo, Miss Jones, how are you keeping? Is your father doing any dental work? He is a nice man. He made a set of false teeth for a friend of mine and I should -like him to make a set of teeth for me. Is your daddy doing dental work?" The inspector would

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perhaps buy the kiddie a lolly or an ice­cream. Hon. members need not laugh. Perhaps they have no idea of the tactics that dental inspectors adopt. The little child will perhaps say, "Oh, yes, my daddy made a set of false teeth the other day for Mr. Taylor, and Mr. Taylor was very pleased." Of course, it is to be understood that I am not referring to you, Mr. Taylor; it would be the last thing for me to embarrass you. Then the inspector would dress up in some old clothes and go along to Mr. Taylor and say, "I have no money but I want a set of false teeth made. I cannot afford to go to a dentist; could you give me a note to say that you had a nice set of teeth made by Mr. Jones?" Thinking that he would be helping Jones, Taylor gives the inspector a note and makes the statement that Jones has made a set of teeth for him. The dental mechanic is then brought before the Court and charged with doing what he is qualified and licensed to do. He is charged with the offence of making false teeth and he is fined. Once a mechanic is fined, all the dentists declare him black and he gets no more work from them.

Dr. Noble: He is not taught to take impressions.

Mr. AIKENS: I am glad that the Minister for Health and Home Affairs has raised that matter. I am now talking on what is probably the only subject that he knows anything about. It may be true, as he interjects, that dental mechanics take impressions and that that is a dentist's job. If it is laid down in the Act that only a dentist can take impressions, of course no-one can justify the action of a dental mechanic who takes impressions. But dental mechanics are trained to make and repair false teeth, yet if they do so without the work coming to them through a dentist they are guilty of a breach of the Dental Act and are blackballed by the dental profession. One dentist in Townsville was told that he was not to send any work to a dental mechanic who had been declared black. He was told that if he did, he would be expelled from the Dental Association, or whatever it is called. However, he said, "I am quite happy about that. You can expel me as soon as you like, because I intend to continue sending my work to this man as he is a very competent dental mechanic."

What happens when a man cracks his dental plate or knocks a tooth off it? He takes it to a dentist's surgery. He does not see the dentist, but hands it to the dentist's receptionist, who says, "Come back in four or five days and it will be ready for you." The receptionist then sends the damaged plate to the dental mechanic, who repairs it and sends it back to the receptionist. She

hands it to the patient when he calls for it. The dentist never sees it, but he "slams his cut" onto the dental mechanic's charge. For example, the dental mechanic may charge £1 to repair the plate, but when the patient gets it from the dentist he has to pay him two or three guineas. In other words, the dentist charges more than the man who actually does the work, simply because his receptionist has taken the plate from the patient and sent it to the mechanic.

Mr. Davies: Do all the dentists in your electorate do that?

Mr. AIKENS: Apparently they do.

Here is an amazing thing. Dental mechanics, in addition to making false teeth and repairing broken plates, also make artifi­cial eyes, ears, noses, or any other part of the anatomy that has been eaten away by cancer or knocked out in an accident. Members of the medical profession do not adopt the same attitude as dentists. If I have my nose eaten away or my ear knocked off or my eye knocked out, after I have been treated initially by a doctor he does not say, "I am going to take an impression of your nose, ear or eye, and send it to the dental mechanic." Nor does he get back from the dental mechanic the artificial nose, ear, or eye and charge you his fee in addition to that of the dental mechanic. He sends the patient direct to the dental mechanic, who measures him for the artificial nose, ear, or eye, makes it, fixes it in position, and charges the patient direct. That is as it should be. I do not mind paying dentists for what they do. I have been very fortunate with them. I have a good dentist in Townsville and when I wanted the services of a dentist here in Brisbane some years ago I asked the Minis­ter for Labour and Industry who his dentist was and he told me his name, and I have been along to him a few times, and he has given me satisfaction and good work.

Dr. Noble: Why didn't you go to your Townsville dentist?

Mr. AIKENS: I wanted the job done here. I could not knock around this place a "gummy" for three or four weeks until I got back home. If I wanted a doctor I know where I would not go, Mr. Taylor. However, that is by the way.

I have no objection to dentists doing their own work but these men are doing the work for which they are trained and qualified yet you cannot go to them directly. Suppose I were qualified and set up in business as a cabinetmaker. What a ridiculous position it would be if anyone had to go to a master builder or an architect in order to get me to make some piece of cabinet furniture! What a

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ridiculous position it is when these men who set up in business to do the work for which they are trained and qualified cannot deal directly with the patient! I think it is some­thing the Minister should study.

In Tasmania they have done something about it, they have altered the law so that dentists can do their own work and dental mechanics can do their own work direct with the patient. That is as it should be. I under­stand a move is being made by the architects. They are putting a little pressure on the Government so that you cannot build or make even a little alteration to your home if a daughtsman.draws the plans or if some experi­~nced old carpenter draws them; you can do 1t only if an architect prepares them, and you hav~. to pay him his chop, or his cut, in ~ddJtwn to the amount you pay for the job 1tself.

Mr. Hiley: They would be wastino- their time if they tried to do that. "'

Mr. AIKENS: I tell you, Mr. Taylor, it is coming.

Mr. Hiley: I am telling you now that they would be wasting their time.

Mr. AIKENS: I am happy to have the Minister's assurance because he disclosed today that he is a pretty forthright man in dealing with his own departmental officers. I hope he rubs noses with the Minister for Health and Home Affairs and stops this racket of dental mechanics not being allowed to do work for which they are qualified and licensed. How ridiculous it is! If you have a tooth off your plate you cannot take it straight to the dental mechanic; you have to take it to a dentist.

Dr. Noble: Are you certain of that?

Mr. AIKENS: I am positive of it. The Minister would know about members of his own profession. I do not know whether any of his patients have lost an ear or an eye or a nose-more likely they would lose their lives-but I assume he would do what the other members of his profession do. He would send the patient direct to the dental mechanic to have the artificial ear or nose or eye or what-have-you made and fitted. That is as it should be.

Cancer is another subject I want to bring to the notice of the Minister for Health and Home Affairs. Cancer, we know, is a frightful scourge and it is likely to afflict anyone. If statistics are right, I think one out -of every seven hon. members of this Committee will die of cancer. We know there are various tests for cancer and on this subject the Minister for Health and Home Affairs could speak with considerable authority because, apart from all the joking

we have had during this speech, he is a competent and a very knowledgeable mem­ber of his own profession. I admit that frankly and sincerely. But we know there are very many doctors who are operating for cancer, who are performing amputations for cancer, when the people have not had cancer. Later tests have proved that they did not have cancer at all. Only recently in Townsville a very prominent doctor ordered a woman into the Mater hospital the next morning to have her breast taken off for a cancer she has not got.

Mr. Hiiey: And nobody has attacked unnecessary and unwarranted operations more than the present Minister.

Mr. AIKENS: I have admitted that. For­tunately, the woman went along to another doctor and he laughed and said, "You have not got a cancer. I will give you a bit of ointment and that sore will be gone in a week."

We have a patient in the Townsville General Hospital now who was sent there by the same prominent doctor for a large malignant growth in the hip and by the time the very efficient doctors at the Townsville General Hospital got to work on it they found he never had a cancer. There was no sign of a cancer. He was suffering from the golden staph. The doctor did not know the difference between golden staph. and cancer. He has, in addition, a touch of osteoartbritis. In another case the doctor wanted to take a man's leg off for a cancer in the knee. The patient went along to the General Hospital where one of the lady doctors in her last year-she would not be very experienced­said, "There is no need to get your leg off for that. I will fix that." She put a lance or a knife into it, let the pus out and put a piece of elastoplast bandage on it, and he was back at work in three days. It should be punishable by de-registration if any doctor operates for cancer without first having taken the necessary steps to have pathological, blood or whatever tests are applicable to the diag­nosis of cancer. I think it is monstrous that there are doctors in the community who operate on patients for cancer when they have not got that disease.

Mr. Davies: Are you complaining about one doctor in Townsville?

Mr. AIKENS: I mentioned only one. I know of others. I have only a few minutes left so I have not got time to tell the hon. member them all. That is one case of error in diagnosis and it is an outstanding case. I do not know whether it is in the Health Act in general terms but if it is not it should be stated that there must be a pathological, blood or other recognised test for cancer before a doctor can operate for cancer.

Progress reported.

The House adjourned at 12.58 p.m.