Minutes of the 1st Special Meeting of

the Tuen Mun District Council

Date: 14 January 2020 (Tuesday) Time: 2:30 p.m. Venue: Tuen Mun District Council (TMDC) Conference Room Present: Time of Arrival Time of Departure Mr WONG Tan-ching (Vice Chairman) 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Ms WONG Lai-sheung, Catherine 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Ms HO Hang-mui 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LAM Chung-hoi 2:30 p.m. 4:02 p.m. Ms CHU Shun-nga, Beatrice 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Ms SO Ka-man 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr YEUNG Chi-hang 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr YAN Siu-nam 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr WONG Tak-yuen 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LEE Ka-wai 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr HO Kwok-ho 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LAM Ming-yan 2:30 p.m. 3:01 p.m. Mr LAM Kin-cheung 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr CHOW Kai-lim 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr MA Kee 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr CHEUNG Kam-hung, Kenneth 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LEUNG Ho-man 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr WONG Hung-ming 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr TSANG Chun-hing 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr TSANG Kam-wing 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr YAN Pui-lam 2:30 p.m. 3:01 p.m. Mr POON Chi-kin 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LAI Chun-wing, Alfred 2:30 p.m. 3:01 p.m. Mr LO Chun-yu 2:30 p.m. 4:38 p.m. Ms LAI Ka-man 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Ms LAW Pei-lee 2:30 p.m. End of meeting Mr LAU Chun-fai, Lawrence (Secretary)

Senior Executive Officer (District Council), Tuen Mun District Office, Home Affairs Department

Absent with Apologies: Ms CHAN Shu-ying, Josephine (Chairman) Ms KONG Fung-yi

Mr CHAN Yau-hoi, BBS, MH, JP The Hon LAU Ip-keung, Kenneth, BBS, MH, JP Mr MO Kwan-tai, Michael Mr CHEUNG Ho-sum By Invitation: Mr LEE Kam-ho, Edwin District Environmental Hygiene Superintendent (Tuen Mun),

Food and Environmental Hygiene Department Ms LI Pui-kun Senior Housing Manager/Tuen Mun, Housing Department Ms LAI Suet-mui, Erika Housing Manager/Tuen Mun 2, Housing Department Ms YUEN Miu-chun, Christine Chief Transport Officer/New Territories North West,

Transport Department Mr CHENG Kwok-yan, Brian Chief School Development Officer (Tuen Mun),

Education Bureau Ms LO Lai-fong, Jackie Chief Leisure Manager (New Territories North), Leisure and

Cultural Services Department Ms TAM Yin-ting, Pat District Leisure Manager (Tuen Mun), Leisure and Cultural

Services Department Ms Annie LAM Public Relations Manager - External Affairs, MTR

Corporation Limited Ms Betsy LEUNG Manager (Public Affairs), The Kowloon Motor Bus

Corporation (1933) Limited Mr Kevin LI Public Affairs Manager, Citybus Limited In Attendance: Ms FUNG Ngar-wai, Aubrey District Officer (Tuen Mun), Home Affairs Department Ms TSUI Man-yee, Joanna Assistant District Officer (Tuen Mun) 1, Home Affairs

Department Ms LEUNG Chue-kay, Koronis Assistant District Officer (Tuen Mun) 2, Home Affairs

Department Ms YAN Yuet-han, Fion Senior Liaison Officer (1), Tuen Mun District Office,

Home Affairs Department Ms YU Mei-yu, Melinder Senior Liaison Officer (2), Tuen Mun District Office,

Home Affairs Department Mr NG Chi-keung, Vincent Senior Liaison Officer (3), Tuen Mun District Office,

Home Affairs Department Ms CHAN Ching-yee, Jackie (Assistant Secretary)

Executive Officer I (District Council) 2, Tuen Mun District Office, Home Affairs Department

Action I. Opening Remarks The Vice Chairman welcomed all participants and representatives of government departments to the first special meeting of the Tuen Mun District Council (“TMDC”). He said that before the meeting, the Secretary had received the Chairman’s notification that she was unable to attend the meeting due to other commitments. Therefore, he chaired this meeting in place of her.

2. The Vice Chairman reminded Members that the audio recording of this meeting would be uploaded to the TMDC website, so they were requested to raise their hand before speaking, and switch on the microphones to speak only after he told them to do so. The Vice Chairman also reminded Members that Members who were aware of their personal interests in any matters discussed at the meeting should declare the interests before the discussion.

3. Besides, the Vice Chairman asked members of the public who observed the meeting to note that if they needed to film or broadcast live the meeting, the filming or live broadcasting should not affect the proper conduct of the meeting.

II. Absence from Meeting 4. The Secretary said the Secretariat had received no applications from Members for leave of absence.

III. Discussion Items (A) Follow Up on Severe Pneumonia in Wuhan

(Written Response of Hong Kong Police Force) (Written Response of Marine Department) (Written Response of Department of Health) (Written Response of Hospital Authority)

5. The Vice Chairman welcomed Mr Edwin LEE, District Environmental Hygiene Superintendent (Tuen Mun) of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department (“FEHD”); Ms Christine YUEN, Chief Transport Officer/New Territories North West of the Transport Department (“TD”); Ms Jackie LO, Chief Leisure Manager (New Territories North) of the Leisure and Cultural Services Department (“LCSD”); Ms Pat TAM, District Leisure Manager (Tuen Mun) of the LCSD; Mr Brian CHENG, Chief School Development Officer (Tuen Mun) of the Education Bureau (“EDB”); Ms LI Pui-kun, Senior Housing Manager/Tuen Mun of the Housing Department (“HD”); Ms Erika LAI, Housing Manager/Tuen Mun 2 of the HD; Ms Annie LAM, Public Relations Manager - External Affairs of the MTR

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Action Corporation Limited (“MTRCL”); Ms Betsy LEUNG, Manager (Public Affairs) of the Kowloon Motor Bus Corporation (1933) Limited (“KMB”); and Mr Kevin LI, Public Affairs Manager of Citybus Limited (“Citybus”), to the meeting. 6. The Vice Chairman further said that in addition to the department and organisation representatives present at the meeting as mentioned above, the TMDC Chairman had also sent a letter about this matter to the Department of Health (“DH”), the Hospital Authority (“HA”), the Hong Kong Police Force (“HKPF”), the Immigration Department (“ImmD”) and the Marine Department (“MD”), inviting them to send representatives to the TMDC meeting. Afterwards, the Secretariat had received written responses from the HKPF, the MD, the DH and the HA, and distributed the relevant documents to Members for perusal before the meeting. Besides, the Secretariat had received a notification that the ImmD was unable to join the meeting.

7. The Vice Chairman added that earlier that day he had received a call from the HA apologising for being unable to attend the meeting.

8. Ms Catherine WONG expressed regret for the departments’ failure to join the TMDC meeting. In her view, government departments should not only provide written responses to questions from a district council (“DC”) but assign representatives to attend its meetings in person. Also, she said that while the HA had called the Vice Chairman to apologise for being unable to attend the meeting, she opined that the Vice Chairman should reprimand the HA for failing to send officers to the meeting.

9. The Vice Chairman said he just wanted to report to Members on the HA’s call about its attendance at the meeting.

10. Mr TSANG Kam-wing said Mainland authorities had reported that there had been only one case of death caused by the severe Wuhan pneumonia, but according to the information circulating among the public, there had been more than hundreds of deaths. He asked the representatives of government departments and public transport companies what measures had been taken in response. Besides, the DH’s written response only provided the numbers of cases received by hospitals, so he requested more information from the EDB and the DH.

11. Mr POON Chi-kin noted that most of the representatives from government

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Action departments and public transport companies present at the meeting played executive roles, but he believed that the public wished to learn from such policy departments as the DH and the HA whether specific policies were in place to prevent the spread of the Wuhan pneumonia to Hong Kong. With none of these departments present, the meeting was less meaningful. He further said he and members of the public in his constituency needed to reprimand these departments for leaving Members unable to question relevant government departments directly. Moreover, he asked the representatives of public transport companies if there were any plans to prevent the spread of infectious diseases (including the Wuhan pneumonia) through the public transport system. 12. Mr LO Chun-yu thanked the department representatives present at the meeting and reprimanded the departments absent from the meeting. He said the public were very disappointed that the front-line executive departments (including the DH and the HA) had sent no representatives to the meeting. He said many local residents had asked him about what the Government would do to prevent major virus outbreaks in the community. Moreover, he asked the representatives of public transport companies and the EDB about what “BAU” they had, whether their “BAU” was backed by professional medical authorities, and how to take “preventive measures”. Besides, he said some members of the public had reported that some bus drivers did not wear masks or changed masks every few hours only. Therefore, he asked the representatives of bus companies whether they had policies requiring bus drivers to provide “medical records” or check their body temperature every day before going to work. In addition, he asked the MTRCL representative about the frequency of MTR compartment clean-up and the content of the cleaning materials used. He further told the EDB representative that Leung Chow Shun Kam Primary School in Tuen Mun had seen the second outbreak of pneumonia in a year, so he gathered that the “BAU” for the school’s air circulation or air-conditioning systems might not be up to scratch.

13. Ms LAI Ka-man said that as of 13 January 2020, there were 68 cases in Hong Kong tested negative for the Wuhan pneumonia, but she reckoned that the Government, especially the HD, should not take lightly the efforts to strengthen hygiene measures. She further said the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (“DAB”) had met with the Liaison Office of the Central People’s Government in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (“LOCPG”) earlier, striving to work with the Mainland to enhance the notification mechanism and ensure prevention and control measures were effective. Also, the DAB had

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Action met with the Food and Health Bureau (“FHB”) on 8 January to make requests to the administration on a variety of hygiene matters. She added that she had written to the HD making recommendations on hygiene in housing estates, which included the setting up of mask points and the regular disinfection of mats and escalators in public housing estates, among other things. She opined that as the Government was planning to introduce disease prevention measures at all control points in Hong Kong, it should take early action in public housing estates. 14. Mr YEUNG Chi-hang said he shared similar views with other Members, adding that the TMDC was very dissatisfied because at the previous meeting it had specifically requested several government departments (including the HA, the DH and the ImmD) to join this meeting, but none of the above three departments was present. He felt that Tuen Mun residents were kept in the dark about the latest situation of the Wuhan pneumonia. He further said that Wuhan was far away from Hong Kong, so the HA had to explain to Members why the pneumonia virus could still spread to Hong Kong. He hoped any government departments or officials who knew the latest news or policies on the Wuhan pneumonia would inform the TMDC as soon as possible. Besides, he suggested that after the meeting, the Vice Chairman should request the absent departments to provide further information for the TMDC and attend the next meeting. He also hoped the HD representatives could spell out to the TMDC later what new measures the department had recently taken to enhance housing estate cleaning in view of the Wuhan pneumonia.

15. Mr MA Kee said he wanted to move a motion to censure the DH, the HA and the HKPF for refusing to attend the meeting. He believed that condemning absent department representatives could prompt other government departments’ attendance at TMDC meetings. He further said he believed that government departments could work out the contingency measures for major outbreaks of infectious diseases of the same type, so he urged relevant departments to make announcements without delay instead of giving reports to the 18 DCs one by one.

16. Mr YAN Pui-lam noticed that Ms LAI Ka-man had said earlier that she would liaise with the LOCPG, so he called on members from the pro-establishment camp to urge Mainland authorities to release the numbers of suspected pneumonia cases in the whole country (especially such places as Shenzhen and Guangdong Province) every day. Moreover, as the Lunar New Year was approaching, a large number of parallel importers and Mainland tourists living in the “one-hour living circle” would come to Tuen Mun for spending, but with low hygiene awareness,

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Action these people often spat or even urinated and defecated anywhere. In this regard, he asked the representatives of public transport companies whether they would, in addition to enhancing compartment clean-up, work with relevant law enforcement agencies of the Government to impose heavier penalties for littering or spitting and other behaviour that was highly detrimental to hygiene. Furthermore, he pointed out that there were a large number of cross-boundary students coming to Tuen Mun for school every day, so he asked the EDB representative if there would be stronger disease screening measures for cross-boundary students to prevent virus spread in the district. 17. Ms LAW Pei-lee said that as the above Member pointed out, the EDB’s reaction to this incident was slow. She recalled that during the “SARS” period, the EDB had issued schools with guidelines requiring students to wear masks. But at this time around, according to the guidelines issued by the EDB to schools, students were not required to wear masks and were just generally reminded to pay more attention to hygiene. Further to the comments made by Mr YAN Pui-lam on cross-boundary students, she added that a large number of cross-boundary students entered and exited Hong Kong every day via Shenzhen Bay Port and Lo Wu Control Point in Hong Kong. She found the situation worrying. She stressed that she was not discriminating against cross-boundary students. She was just worried that as the infectious disease notification mechanism in Mainland China was less comprehensive and its information flow was less speedy when compared to Hong Kong, there would be cross-infection of the pneumonia, which would pose a threat for other school children and teachers. She hoped the EDB would put forward plans for parents and teachers to take preventive measures.

18. Mr Kenneth CHEUNG said that while the Legislative Council (“LegCo”) was discussing the pay increases for civil servants, officials from various departments refused to attend the DC meeting, so he questioned what grounds they had for the pay increases. He said Wuhan, a city located in the Central Plains region of China, had more than 100 tertiary institutions, and there were more than one million students, who would return to their home towns during the Spring Festival. In view of this, he wondered if the pneumonia broke out in Wuhan only. Moreover, as a Member from the pro-establishment camp had said she would liaise with the LOCPG, he requested the camp to make the voice of the pro-democracy camp heard by the LOCPG as well. As the Spring Festival was approaching, a large number of Mainland tourists would come to Hong Kong via Shenzhen Bay for spending, which made local residents very anxious. In his view, the wearing of

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Action masks by residents alone was not enough, and what mattered most was the Government’s ability to keep guard at all control points in Hong Kong. Furthermore, he requested the Secretariat to contact the departments absent from the meeting and ask them to answer Members’ questions after reviewing the recording and live broadcast of the meeting. 19. Ms HO Hang-mui regretted that the relevant departments (including the HA and the DH) had sent no officers to the meeting. Also, she noted that a patient had been denied medical treatment since the HKSAR Government had been too late to list the Wuhan pneumonia as a notifiable disease under the mechanism, and the patient had walked around the community for more than 10 hours before returning to Shenzhen. If the above patient was a super virus carrier or spreader, the Wuhan pneumonia would break out in the community. She expressed deep regret about this. She further said that while the HA had mentioned in its written response that members of the public were required to wear masks when visiting patients in hospitals and wash their hands before and after visiting hospitals, she noticed that some visitors did not wear masks in Tuen Mun Hospital, which she thought was not consistent with the HA’s written response. She added that the one-hour cut in the hospital visiting time was the only measure in effective operation. She said virus could spread more easily when wards were crowded and even their corridors were packed with hospital beds. Besides, she asked whether the EDB required students to check their body temperature when they went to school, and required schools to open windows only and avoid using air conditioners to reduce virus transmission. Moreover, temperature checks were currently carried out at the airport only, but not at ferry terminals and the high-speed rail station. Thus, she requested relevant departments to step up temperature checks at all control points, post guards at the entrances and exits of hospitals, make it mandatory for hospital visitors to wear masks, and reduce density in wards. She also asked about when the quick test could be put in place and how long it would take to get the test results.

20. Mr CHOW Kai-lim said two students in a primary school in Wu King Estate, his constituency, had been infected with pneumonia the week before. After the news was reported by the media, residents and parents in the estate had expressed great concern and asked him one after another about the details and sources of the cases. Yet, the news reports had provided no further information except that the two students had not been to Wuhan. In view of this, he asked the EDB about the latest situations of the two students. He added that people living in the buildings next to the above primary school were very concerned about the spread of the

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Action epidemic to the residential houses, so he asked the HD and the EDB if there were any special corresponding measures in place. 21. Mr Brian CHENG of the EDB said the bureau was always in close contact with the Centre for Health Protection (“CHP”) about infectious diseases as well as the Wuhan pneumonia. In January of this year, the bureau had not only sent a letter to remind schools about the Wuhan pneumonia but also forwarded five CHP letters about the prevention of the Wuhan pneumonia to schools to call for higher hygiene alertness. He further said that besides the Wuhan pneumonia, Hong Kong might also be near the peak of influenza, so recently the bureau had also forwarded a letter on influenza prevention to schools. Based on the experience of tackling swine flu, the bureau had been working hard for years to maintain close contact with the CHP and schools. In case of unusual absences from school (e.g. three students in the same class applying for leave due to the same symptoms), the school would have to notify the CHP and the EDB immediately. The CHP would decide whether to go to the school concerned for investigation or even medical surveillance having regard to the severity. The above mechanism had been working effectively for years, and was thus being used by relevant departments to monitor the Wuhan pneumonia. In response to some Members’ concern about whether schools would require students to wear masks and check temperature, just as they had done in the “SARS” period, and about the arrangements for cross-boundary students, he said the information the bureau provided for schools was based on the recommendations made by the CHP in the light of disease severity, and schools would follow them. The bureau had already required that schools should do temperature checks, and students should have their body temperature checked by parents before going to school. At many schools, students’ temperature was checked again when they arrived at school, in order to see whether they had fever. At the moment, the CHP had not yet recommended all students should wear masks at school. Moreover, some Members asked about the situation of the primary school that had recently been reported to see pneumonia cases. The bureau had taken follow-up action, and the two students concerned had left Hong Kong before, but not for Wuhan. One of them had never gone to the school after the Christmas holiday, and the other student had stopped going to school after two days of attendance. The schools concerned had notified the CHP and the EDB immediately after learning that the students had caught pneumonia, and the CHP had confirmed that the two students had not contracted the Wuhan pneumonia. One of the students had fully recovered and resumed classes, while the other one was resting at home and would resume classes as soon as possible.

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Action 22. Ms LI Pui-kun of the HD gave the following response to Members’ enquiries about the department’s precautions against the Wuhan pneumonia:

(i) To facilitate the traditional year-end clean-up for the Lunar New Year, the department had enhanced cleaning work in 10 public housing estates and stepped up inspections of hygiene blackspots (e.g. refuse collection points, waste stations, public toilets and places with high pedestrian traffic). It had also instructed cleansing contractors, outsourced management companies and market operators to use high-pressure water jets to enhance their daily cleaning work and the quarterly “Operation Tai Ping Tei” exercise, and to do cleaning work in accordance with the “guidelines for enhanced cleaning and disinfection” (e.g. using 1:99 diluted bleach to clean buttons and control panels of lifts, escalators and so forth four times a day);

(ii) The department would continue to strengthen rodent and pest control by tidying up flower beds, filling rat holes, laying rat-baits and ensuring that rubbish bins were covered properly and kept in refuse storage chambers. It would also remind cleansing contractors to provide adequate personal protective equipment and disinfectants for their staff;

(iii) As for the HD’s facilities, the department would regularly inspect all housing estate facilities, such as manholes, ditches, U-traps, drainage systems, and ventilation systems in lift shafts, to ensure their proper functioning. It would also pay attention to the condition of U-traps in vacant units and fill the traps with water during the monthly routine inspections to prevent foul odours in drainage pipes from spreading into premises;

(iv) The department would inspect the sites of maintenance contractors to ensure they were clean, with miscellaneous objects and debris removed regularly;

(v) As some HD properties had been sold to LINK or other property owners, the department would join the relevant property owners to step up corresponding operations against rodents and pests, and remind them to enhance the cleaning of their markets and properties. It would also join the FEHD and contractors to arrange extra removals of miscellaneous objects to prevent the accumulation of such objects and waste;

(vi) The department would step up enforcement actions and deduct points

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Action

from residents who committed violations of the Marking Scheme for Tenancy Enforcement in Public Housing Estates (e.g. littering and animal feeding); and

(vii) The department would engage in civic education to raise residents’ hygiene awareness. It would organise the “Operation Tai Ping Tei” exercise with members of Estate Management Advisory Committees (“EMAC”) and other stakeholders to enlist residents’ support for efforts to keep housing estates clean. Also, the department would post CHP notices at the offices and building lobbies of housing estates, and inform EMAC members about the messages on the notices at EMAC meetings.

23. Ms Annie LAM of the MTRCL said she was aware that many Members paid attention to epidemic prevention measures for compartments, stations and control points. The MTRCL was very concerned about the developments of the epidemic and had a risk assessment mechanism in place to devise and carry out cleaning procedures and measures that met CHP guidelines. Also, the company would disinfect train compartments and station facilities regularly and as needed. As for the epidemic prevention measures taken in the West Kowloon high-speed rail station, there were currently two trains arriving at West Kowloon Station by way of Wuhan each day. Starting from 6 January, the Government checked the temperature of each passenger on the above two trains to strengthen the epidemic prevention work. After the trains arrived at West Kowloon Station, station staff would use 1:49 diluted bleach to clean the parts of the station that were often touched by arriving passengers, including escalators, lifts and so forth. The MTRCL would also place disinfectant hand soap and masks on platforms for use by passengers in need and enhance the ventilation in the whole station. The MTRCL would keep monitoring the developments and take further action with relevant departments. Besides, there would be more frequent disinfection at stations linked to Mainland control points (e.g. Lo Wu and Lok Ma Chau), and 1:99 diluted bleach would be used more frequently to clean the parts in the MTR network that were often touched by passengers, including handrails in train compartments, escalators and lifts in stations, etc. On the light rail, cleaners would clean and disinfect arrived vehicles at termini and carry out thorough cleaning and disinfection every night. Moreover, the MTRCL would remind staff at stations linked to control points to not only pay attention to their personal hygiene and health, but wear masks if necessary. Broadcasts were given and notices were put up at all stations and train compartments in the MTR network to remind passengers to pay attention to

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Action personal hygiene. 24. Ms Betsy LEUNG of the KMB said that in addition to the daily routine cleaning (e.g. cleaning bus compartments with bleach and cleaning the inside and outside of bus compartments regularly), the KMB had recently hired additional staff, who worked at bus stops and termini to sterilise at least twice a day the parts of bus compartments that were often touched by passengers (e.g. handrails, call bells and floors). Greater efforts would be made to disinfect the compartments of bus routes that passed hospitals, airports and the border. She further said a total of more than 120 alcohol-based handrub dispensers were provided at more than 70 bus termini and interchanges across Hong Kong, including the airport, Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge Hong Kong Port, the Lok Ma Chau bus terminus, Tuen Mun Road Bus-Bus Interchange and Tuen Mun Town Centre Bus Terminal, for use by passengers and front-line staff. Furthermore, the KMB had recently introduced a message in the bus stop announcement system for captains to broadcast it as needed to call for passengers’ attention to personal hygiene. On Members’ concern about the KMB’s measures for its employees, the company had issued circulars to remind its staff to maintain good personal and environmental hygiene and provided additional masks for them. If employees had symptoms of respiratory infections, the KMB would request them to seek medical treatment and wear masks.

25. Mr Kevin LI of Citybus said Citybus would clean bus compartments with 1:99 diluted bleach every day, and 1:49 diluted bleach would be used to clean and disinfect the bus compartments if vomit or excrement was found there. Moreover, to prevent the outbreak of the Wuhan pneumonia in Hong Kong, Citybus already broadcast messages through its automatic bus stop announcement system to remind passengers to pay attention to personal and environmental hygiene, cover their mouths and noses with tissues when they coughed and sneezed, and avoid discarding used tissues in bus compartments. He further said Citybus also displayed the CHP’s electronic posters on the LCD screens above the wheelchair spaces in bus compartments to educate the public on the prevention of pneumonia and respiratory infections. Besides, to reduce the risk of infection and virus transmission, Citybus had recently issued a circular again to remind its staff to be more vigilant and maintain good personal hygiene practices. Citybus had also provided masks for bus captains, and the above circular specified that captains with symptoms of respiratory infections should wear masks and seek medical treatment as soon as possible. On Members’ enquiries about whether Citybus would, having regard to passengers’ health condition, request the Government to step up enforcement actions

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Action (e.g. prosecution for behaviour like spitting) at some bus stops, Citybus had noted the opinion concerned and would discuss it with relevant departments. 26. The Vice Chairman said the comments just made by Members involved a number of departments, but the time for the meeting was limited, so he would like the departments to respond after the second round of speeches.

27. Mr HO Kwok-ho said the outsourced management company contract for a public housing estate in his constituency was a “conventional contract”, adding that the wages of cleaners and security guards who had signed new contracts would rise significantly after the pay increase announced by the Government for non-skill workers, but the wages of workers under the current contracts were lower. He said the HD representative had just mentioned that cleaning would be stepped up in public housing estates and outsourcing cleansing contractors would be urged to enhance cleaning, but given the high turnover rates facing outsourced management companies under “conventional contracts”, he wondered how the measures mentioned by the HD could be carried out when cleaners’ wages were low. Citing Fu Tai Estate as an example, he added that with five or six cleaners in the estate having quitted suddenly, it was difficult to meet the HD’s requirements when even basic cleaning could not be completed. In this regard, he asked whether the HD would provide more resources for management companies under “conventional contracts” (i.e. whose cleaners received monthly wages of only $9,000 or so), and what policies were in place to help these companies to fill their vacancies so that they could do basic cleaning properly and put epidemic prevention measures into practice.

28. Mr WONG Tak-yuen said many Members had just requested the HD to provide guidelines and plans in view of the Wuhan pneumonia epidemic, and the HD representative had replied that relevant guidelines were already in place for public housing estates. He pointed out that the HD was the major owner of public rental housing under the Tenants Purchase Scheme (“TPS”), and he understood that the department had seldom participated in or interfered with the management of these housing estates before, but he hoped this time around the department, though not acting as the major owner, could provide guidelines for relevant owners’ corporations or management companies and put forth plans to prevent community outbreaks. He further said that with primary and secondary schools and a number of elderly centres, his constituency Leung King Estate was very crowded and every small community was exposed to risk. It was not ideal if the HD focused on its

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Action responsibility towards public housing estates only but ignored the TPS public housing. In addition, he said public toilets also fell within the purview of the FEHD and, according to news reports, faeces were one of the transmission modes of the Wuhan pneumonia. He therefore asked whether the department would step up the cleaning of public toilets close to Mainland control points or take other measures to prevent the outbreak of the epidemic. He added that Tuen Mun was very close to Shenzhen Bay Port and the uncivilised behaviour of Mainland visitors (e.g. spitting, urinating and defecating) would fuel the spread of the Wuhan pneumonia. Thus, he asked whether the FEHD would take corresponding action if visitors were infected. 29. Ms SO Ka-man echoed the comments of a number of Members in condemning the HA and the DH for refusing to join the DC meeting, but she said the hard work of front-line medical personnel during the “SARS” period should not be forgotten. She opined that it was wrong for government departments to refuse to join the meeting, but front-line medical personnel worked very hard. The purpose of this meeting was to enhance transparency and improve the notification mechanism though the TMDC’s efforts, so that the public could know more about how to fight the virus and would not go into panic when coming across online information, which could hardly be judged to be real or fake. Also, she hoped the public would not forget that the whole city had united to fight the “SARS” years back. Moreover, she noted that different housing estate management companies might use different methods of management and cleaning, so she reckoned that the department should put a policy in place, and instruct the management companies of all housing estates to adopt a standardised cleaning method and provide disinfectant hand soap. She further said there were no clear details about the enhanced and more frequent action that would be taken as mentioned earlier by departments. She hoped the departments could spell out the details of the enhanced and more frequent action. Besides, the HD had emphasised that LINK and property owners would be reminded to improve hygiene, but she opined that the HD should put in place measures against property owners who failed to carry out improvements (e.g. reporting to the FEHD). She hoped all departments and members of the public would work together to fight the virus and take proper precautions.

30. Ms Catherine WONG was dissatisfied as the two most important departments had sent no representatives to the meeting. She said that according to Professor YUEN Kwok-yung, the genetic sequence of the virus was 80% similar to that of the SARS virus in 2003, but due to a lack of transparency, the public could

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Action not know if that was true. She therefore hoped representatives from the departments had been present at the meeting to give explanations. She also hoped a motion of censure could serve to tell the DH that they could not avoid meetings. 31. Mr LO Chun-yu said there were temperature checks at various control points (e.g. the high-speed rail station and boundary control points), but he suspected the administration had overlooked the incubation period, which was very dangerous. He said it was unclear whether the DH and the HA had any plans to address the incubation period. Also, he wanted to know what the DH, the HA and relevant departments would do if passengers had no symptoms when entering the territory. He said that even though no DH representative was present, it was still necessary to follow up on how the relevant authorities would address the incubation period of the infectious disease.

32. Mr POON Chi-kin said this meeting was held to discuss this matter because many people were concerned about it, so he hoped the absent departments, such as the DH and the HA, could respond in writing to the points raised at the meeting (e.g. the incubation period). As for practical recommendations, such as the proposal about the EDB’s temperature checks as just mentioned, he hoped the EDB could arrange temperature checks and supply of masks at schools. As for transport, he hoped workers (e.g. drivers and station assistants) who were in frequent contact with other people could wear masks at work. He hoped there were better ways to ensure the successful implementation of these proposals.

33. Ms Beatrice CHU said Members had expressed their concerns about the matter. Also, she thanked the department representatives present at the meeting for talking about various efforts against the Wuhan pneumonia. She added that a number of Members had voiced their dissatisfaction and opinions, and front-line departments had been following up on the matter. She said government officials had often attended the meetings of the previous TMDC, but no representatives from important government departments were present, and the written responses from government departments were unclear. She further said she was worried about how the DC could run down the road when government departments already had such an attitude at the very beginning of the new DC term. She noted that some Members had proposed an impromptu motion to censure those government departments, while some had asked them to watch the live broadcast. She wondered why things happened in such a distressing way and suggested that everyone might as well have a video conference together. She further said that just a week earlier, Chief

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Action Secretary for Administration, Mr Matthew CHEUNG, had postured to communicate with DCs and invited councillors to meet and talk in North Point, but government officials did not attend this meeting, which was held exactly for discussing a matter of public concern. She had heard that Chief Executive, Mrs Carrie LAM, would meet with DC chairmen and vice-chairmen, so she hoped the two chairmen would take the opportunity to tell Chief Executive about the poor attitude of government officials, in a bid to put things right. She added that the FEHD did not have enough resources at the district level, so she asked whether the department had adequate resources to cope with the epidemic and whether it would provide more resources in view of the current situation. 34. Mr TSANG Kam-wing said he noticed that the EDB, according to its response, had merely forwarded letters, while the HD had said it would provide cleaning services, continue with its marking scheme and strengthen civic education; however, these were just routine work, and he could not see relevant departments had any specific measures against the Wuhan pneumonia. He said he had worked in Butterfly Estate before and knew that Po Leung Kuk Leung Chow Shun Kam Primary School had been prone to minor outbreaks at the peaks of influenza, upper respiratory tract infection and chickenpox. Yet, no improvement had been made over the many years and the EDB had provided no guidelines on this matter. In this regard, he asked whether the above two departments would provide guidelines for housing estates or schools on this matter. He also asked whether departments would provide specific guidelines having regard to the specific circumstances of schools or housing estates (e.g. the larger elderly population in Butterfly Estate), so as to facilitate front-line staff’s work.

35. The Vice Chairman reminded Members that the time allowed for each second speech was only a minute, and he would remind Members when they spoke for the second time.

36. Mr LEUNG Ho-man said the representatives of public transport companies had talked about a number of sanitation and cleaning measures earlier. He asked whether the above measures covered the cleaning of air-conditioning or ventilation systems, and if yes, whether the cleaning frequency and guidelines were specified in these measures. He also enquired about the current hygiene condition of air-conditioning systems on railways and buses. Furthermore, he asked the LCSD representatives whether the DH had issued guidelines on the hygiene and cleanliness of parks or sports centres, and whether the LCSD and the DH had worked together

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Action to strengthen hygiene measures. Besides, he asked whether the FEHD had additional measures in place to protect cleaners. He said that at his mask distribution activity earlier, a cleaner had asked for 15 masks, claiming that his supervisor had provided no masks for him. In this regard, he questioned whether the disease prevention measures were adequate for cleaners, and asked the department what measures were in place to protect cleaning workers. He also asked if any schools had activated the notification mechanism mentioned earlier by the EDB at the moment, how the notification mechanism related to the announcement mechanism, and after how many notifications from schools the bureau would make an announcement to the public. He wanted an in-depth understanding of the notification mechanism in terms of its operation details, figures and so forth. 37. Mr LEE Ka-wai said the EDB’s response reminded him of the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission, which had stated there were only 41 cases at the moment, but Hong Kong had already recorded 68 cases as of the day before. If the figures were real, the situation in Hong Kong was more serious than that in Wuhan. He said the TMDC was the first among the councils in the 18 districts to discuss the Wuhan pneumonia. He appealed to the DH, the HA and especially the EDB to listen to the opinions of the public’s representatives. He opined that if the epidemic situation was true, Hong Kong was already facing an acute situation, so he hoped the EDB could step up precautions at schools (e.g. conducting temperature checks and calling on students to wear masks).

38. Mr CHOW Kai-lim echoed Mr HO Kwok-ho’s point that due to low wages, turnover was high among cleaning workers at Fu Tai Estate, and the same problem existed in Wu King Estate. He said he had previously requested the HD to eliminate rodents and mosquitoes during summer holidays when mosquitoes and insects were particularly abundant, and the department had responded that as required by guidelines, three rounds of rodent and mosquito control should be carried out per week. He queried whether housing estate offices or contractors had effectively implemented the guidelines issued by the department, so he suggested housing estate offices put regulation in place or carry out inspections. He also said the department had mentioned earlier that notices would be put up. As he had seen, action had been taken, but the notices were all in text form. Since literacy among the elderly was not high or they could not understand what the text posters meant, he suggested the HD headquarters produce posters that contained more graphics for housing estate offices to put them up in housing estates with more elderly residents.

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Action 39. In response to Mr LEE Ka-wai’s comments, Ms LAW Pei-lee said that as the epidemic situation in Hong Kong was more serious than that in the Mainland, the EDB should put more measures in place. She said that according to the EDB, schools did check students’ temperature and call on them to wear masks, but the reality was that the notice only said students should wear masks if they felt unwell. Thus, she hoped the EDB could put the measures just mentioned by Members into practice without delay. Besides, she asked under what circumstances schools would be suspended. Furthermore, she condemned the HKPF for sending no representative to the meeting. She noted that the Police had been armed to the teeth and masked every day before. She asked whether these masks had an anti-virus effect; if not, she would ask whether the health of members of the public would be affected if their masks were removed casually in the Police’s large-scale crowd control operations. She opined that such an act was risky and hoped the Police would not disregard public safety.

40. In response to the HD representative’s reply, Ms LAI Ka-man said manpower was currently short in many places, including a new housing estate that saw serious hygiene problems in her constituency. In this regard, she hoped the HD could pay attention to play equipment as well as the sanitary facilities just mentioned. She said precautions needed to be stepped up in housing estates with more children. She hoped there would be funding support and the department would take prompt action - it was the peak of influenza after all. Moreover, she said a number of Members had suggested she communicate more with the LOCPG. She understood that many Members were concerned about such matters as cross-boundary students, transport, and the Spring Festival travel season. She invited Members to join her in meeting with the LOCPG for more effective communication.

41. Ms Pat TAM of the LCSD said the department cared much about the hygiene and cleanliness of its leisure and cultural venues. In response to the Government’s activation of the Serious Response Level under the preparedness and response plan for novel infectious disease, the LCSD had taken corresponding prevention and control measures to strengthen response work at its venues. In addition to daily cleaning, 1:99 diluted bleach was more often used to clean frequently-used facilities like children’s playrooms, swimming pools and drinking fountains, and 1:49 diluted bleach was used in vomit removals to make cleaning efforts more effective. Also, disinfectant mats were placed in the lobbies of the venues, and alcohol-based

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Action handrub was provided at the receptions for public use. Moreover, to boost public awareness of respiratory tract infections, the LCSD had put up the DH poster about the “prevention of respiratory tract infections” and its notice about “advice on the hygienic use of drinking fountains” in prominent places in indoor facilities. Meanwhile, the LCSD was stepping up rodent control at its venues and continued to complement the Government’s work by enhancing the cleaning of its venues. 42. In response to Mr WONG Tak-yuen’s enquiry, Mr Edwin LEE of the FEHD said the FEHD was an executive arm of the Government and, in this regard, the headquarters had issued all district environmental hygiene offices with instructions, which mainly applied to public places managed by the FEHD (including markets, cooked food markets, hawker bazaars and public toilets). The FEHD had three markets, three cooked food markets, one hawker bazaar and 50 public toilets in Tuen Mun. The specific measures mainly served to strengthen cleaning and disinfection work. For public toilets with venue-based cleaners, the FEHD required the contractors to clean such items as walls, toilet accessories, wash basins, door handles and handrails every two hours. Disinfectants should also be provided in the toilets for public use. The contractors were also required to check the U-shaped water traps of drain pipes to ensure the water traps were free of damage and contained plenty of water to effectively serve as a blockage and maintain environmental hygiene. Then, in response to the questions raised by Mr WONG Tak-yuen and Mr YAN Pui-lam, he said any persons violating cleaning legislation anywhere in Hong Kong, not limited to transport interchanges, might be prosecuted by the FEHD. For instance, the FEHD might issue fixed penalty notices to offenders of spitting and littering. In view of Members’ suggestions, he would deploy the FEHD’s law enforcement teams to transport interchanges as appropriate. On the issue raised by Ms Beatrice CHU about the FEHD’s resources, he said the FEHD had a total of two large contracts in Tuen Mun, one for refuse collection and the other one for street cleansing. The two contracts had been updated in 2020 with significant growth of more than double digits in resources. Based on the current situation, it was believed that the resources were sufficient to meet the needs in the next few years. He further said the headquarters was relatively open-minded and had some flexibility about resource allocation. Lastly, on the case mentioned by Mr LEUNG Ho-man about a cleaner asking for masks from Members, he said this was certainly not ideal because the FEHD had stated in the cleansing contracts that contractors were required to provide sufficient supplies (including masks) for cleaners. Thus, he would advise workers to ask their leaders at stations for the supplies they did not have.

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Action 43. The Vice Chairman said two Members wanted to make their second speeches, adding that relevant departments would give responses after other Members were invited to speak in a single round.

44. Ms SO Ka-man said it was wrong for department representatives not to join previous meetings, so she suggested the TMDC take this matter forward until the departments were represented. She said it was not acceptable for department representatives to be absent from the first special meeting, or else other departments would follow suit in the future and then there would be no representatives at TMDC meetings. Besides, she commended the previous TMDC’s Working Group on Community Crisis Management for using part of the TMDC funding to produce masks for distribution to Tuen Mun residents. She reckoned that instead of waiting for departments to take action, the TMDC might as well return to the previous practice of allocating funding for production of masks and distribution to residents in the district.

45. Mr LAM Kin-cheung pointed out that the problems with cleaning in housing estates were not caused by the Wuhan pneumonia of this year, but by the outsourcing system. He asked the HD about the differences in remunerations between cleaning workers under conventional contracts and new contracts in the outsourcing system. He further noted that staff wastage persisted as wages under new contracts were not as good as what they could earn elsewhere, and that contractors exploited workers on contract terms and cut the materials for cleaning supplies to earn profits. He added that he had witnessed workers using water for cleaning, so he figured that corner-cutting was not peculiar to the HD but also happened in other departments or companies with outsourcing systems. He asked the HD how to supervise. Moreover, he reckoned that corner-cutting was not necessarily the companies’ fault, but attributable to the “lowest bid wins” outsourcing system under which a low price, rather than quality, was the key factor for success in bidding. He said the HA used the “lowest bid wins” outsourcing systems to hire staff to transfer and deliver medicine, transport patients to wards, carry out checks and do cleaning. If this problem remained unresolved, any pneumonia would be destined to last long. He asked the HD, other government departments and other transportation companies for their advice on contracts under the outsourcing systems. Besides, he said many departments had talked about enhanced and more frequent cleaning, but neither the departments nor the organisations had provided exact numbers except the twice-a-day frequency

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Action mentioned by the KMB. He hoped they could provide exact data or numbers for residents’ information. 46. Mr YEUNG Chi-hang said the fact that the departments quoted CHP guidelines (e.g. using 1:99 or 1:49 diluted bleach, etc.) in their responses showed how ridiculous it was for such departments as the DH and the CHP to send no officers to the meeting. Besides, he suggested the HD put more resources into the fight against the epidemic and assign dedicated staff to follow up on the new cleaning arrangements. In addition, he hoped departments would have toilets, which he described as high-risk places, covered by their internal cleaning guidelines, so that the plans for monitoring estate cleaning could be carried out effectively.

47. Ms Beatrice CHU said she always kept tabs on the FEHD’s work in the district and recognised their efforts. She hoped the department would illustrate the updates of the contracts and the more-than-double-digit growth in resources with the numbers of staff or supplies. She said that having witnessed outsourced workers cleaning streets with inadequate supplies, she was afraid that the cleaning work was not thoroughly done. She asked the FEHD again about how manpower or supplies had changed after the resources allocated by the headquarters had more than doubled.

48. Mr Brian CHENG of the EDB thanked the Members for their questions, and give the following response on the matters that Members were more concerned about:

(i) With regard to precautions, particularly temperature taking and mask wearing, the bureau had forwarded a CHP letter on 10 January clearly stating that schools were required to check students’ temperature on school days. On mask wearing, the EDB kept in close touch with the CHP to prevent infectious diseases. The bureau relied on the CHP’s professional advice to take appropriate action. Since no guideline had been received as yet to make it mandatory for all students to wear masks, there was no requirement in this regard;

(ii) With regard to notification, the notification mechanism had long been in operation at all schools in Hong Kong. When a school found any unusual absences of children, for example, three students in the same class absent from school within a short period of time due to the same symptoms, the school must notify the EDB and the CHP, and the CHP would decide whether it was necessary to go to the school for

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Action

observation or medical surveillance. As for the announcement mechanism, the CHP had announced the locations of outbreaks of gastroenteritis or certain infectious diseases having regard to circumstances before. Yet, the EDB could not give detailed responses on matters concerning the announcement mechanism on behalf of the CHP;

(iii) On whether the EDB would provide special guidelines for housing estates with special circumstances, it is quite difficult to provide guidelines specific to a particular housing estate because different housing estates had different circumstances and characteristics; and

(iv) On whether classes would be suspended under certain circumstances, clear arrangements were in place under the existing mechanism for the CHP to make appropriate recommendations on whether class suspension was necessary having regard to the severity of infectious disease outbreaks in individual schools. Besides, the EDB had issued a notice to schools stating that they might decide themselves whether school-based class suspension was necessary having regard to actual circumstances. Schools had to act in accordance with the mechanism, get approval from their incorporated management committees, and notify the EDB about the reasons and detailed arrangements for the school-based class suspension.

49. Ms Christine YUEN of the TD said the department was always in close contact with public transport operators (including cross-border bus and other public facility operators) and had requested them to do corresponding cleaning (including enhanced cleaning of bus compartments and stop facilities). In response to the DH’s recommendations, the TD had issued health guidelines to the operators, requiring them to provide regular reports on the implementation of preventive measures, and to disseminate messages about prevention of communicable diseases on public transport vehicles or ferries, which served to remind passengers to pay attention to personal hygiene. In response to the questions from some Members about the details of the operators’ cleaning work, she said the KMB, Citybus and the MTRCL would give more details.

50. Ms Annie LAM of the MTRCL thanked Members for their questions and responded that the main effort at the moment was to clean and disinfect about every four hours the key parts (including escalators) touched by passengers, with those of control point stations cleaned more frequently at two-hour intervals. The DH

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Action provided quarantine facilities at the control point stations, and temperature screening facilities were provided in West Kowloon, Lo Wu, Lok Ma Chau, Hung Hom and Airport Stations. As for the light rail, the frequency of compartment cleaning was very high as cars were cleaned every time after they arrived at termini (e.g. Yuen Long Stop and Tin Shui Wai Stop) and passengers alighted. Deep cleaning was also carried out after the rail service ended. Light rail interchanges with the MTR were cleaned and disinfected every four hours, and individual stops were cleaned more frequently where necessary. The MTRCL would provide sufficient masks for its staff. 51. Ms Betsy LEUNG of the KMB thanked Members for their questions and added that a response had just been given to Mr LAM Kin-cheung’s enquiry about more frequent cleaning. She said the KMB had hired more staff to do at least two additional rounds of cleaning each day. Cleaning workers would sterilise handrails, call bells and floors in compartments when buses arrived at bus stops and termini. Moreover, in response to Mr YEUNG Chi-hang’s enquiry about toilet cleaning, she said that to prevent virus spread, the cleaning and disinfection of toilets, which were provided at all KMB termini as staff facilities, had been enhanced, with disinfectant poured on floor slabs at least twice a day and used to clean toilet plates and door handles.

52. Mr Kevin LI of Citybus made three points in response to Members’ enquiries. On the wearing of masks by captains, he said employees were already accustomed to wearing masks for health reasons. Citybus would keep close tabs on the developments and make timely assessments with regard to the recommendation of mandatory mask wearing at work. As for air-conditioning on buses, he pointed out that the air-conditioning systems on Citybus’ franchised double-deckers were fitted with electrostatic precipitators which, with the application of positive and negative ions, improved air filtration and particle blockage in bus compartments. Besides, the company arranged for buses to return to depots on a fortnightly basis, where air filters in the systems were removed by staff of the engineering department for cleansing. As for the frequency of daily bus cleaning, he said each bus was cleaned at least once a day, and additional cleaning would be done when needed.

53. Ms LI Pui-kun of the HD gave the following response to Members’ enquiries about the supervision of outsourced management companies:

(i) The HD had provided contractors with detailed working guidelines on enhanced cleaning and disinfection in public housing estates. The

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Action

first report had just briefly talked about some simple items such as buttons and control panels of lifts and escalator handrails, which were cleaned and disinfected with 1:99 diluted bleach four times a day. In fact, there were more than 10 other items, including playground facilities and recreational facilities mentioned by Members, and public toilets mentioned by Mr YEUNG Chi-hang;

(ii) The HD also provided specific codes of practice and frequency for contractors to follow. When outsourcing work to contractors, the HD would, among other things, assign staff to carry out regular inspections and check the effectiveness of the work; and

(iii) As it was the property owners themselves who arranged and took care of the management of sold properties, the HD would try to remind them to step up cleaning. It would also conduct joint cleaning operations (e.g. patrolling estates and carrying out rodent and pest control work together) with the management companies of property owners. Experience showed that the outcomes of cooperation were satisfactory.

54. In response to the questions from Mr HO Kwok-ho and Mr LAM Kin-cheung about housing estate cleansing contracts, Ms Erika LAI of the HD pointed out that outsourcing cleansing contracts were phased contracts, upon the renewal of which the department would revise them in accordance with an adjustment mechanism. For example, the Government had launched new measures the year before to adjust the wages and leave benefits for unskilled workers, and the HD had accordingly introduced the adjustments called the “top-up arrangement”. Overall speaking, the department had raised the total contract value. As for public cleaning in TPS estates, she said HD representatives in owners’ management committees had reminded the management companies employed by owners’ corporations to push cleansing contractors to do daily cleaning properly and step up cleaning in case of pneumonia or other flu. Guidelines from the HD and the DH would also be provided for reference. On the monitoring of cleansing contractors’ performance, she said estate management staff patrolled public places in housing estates and made records every day. If it was found that cleaning was not done properly, the cleansing contractors would be asked to make prompt improvements; any failure to do so would be reflected in the scores in quarterly assessments. Furthermore, EMAC members, i.e. the chairmen of building mutual aid committees in estates and the district councillors of the constituencies concerned, would grade the performance of housing estate cleansing contractors, and their scores would be

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Action shown in the assessments. 55. Mr Edwin LEE of the FEHD thanked Ms Beatrice CHU for her question. He said the growth in the newly updated street cleansing contract was about 37%, and as the contract had commenced, he could reveal that logistics facilities had been increased in parallel with the addition of two teams. As there were many developing places in Tuen Mun (e.g. So Kwun Wat), the areas requiring street cleansing were wider, hence the addition of the two new teams. Moreover, the department would introduce advanced machinery (e.g. hose machines or high-pressure water jets) and make enhancements in various aspects. He added that another contract was about solid waste collection. Since the contract would be updated this year, it was not appropriate to disclose the estimate for it. Interested Members might contact him in private. He said Tuen Mun was always short of grab lorries, and the department had realised after the typhoon disaster that grab lorries were very important to Tuen Mun (especially its rural areas). With additional grab lorry fleets being a contractual requirement, there would be a dramatic increase in the estimate for this contract.

56. The Vice Chairman thanked the departments for their responses, and asked them to consider Members’ views.

57. Ms HO Hang-mui said the absent departments should give written responses, or alternatively the matter should be taken forward at the next TMDC meeting and the absent departments should be invited to the meeting to answer questions.

58. The Vice Chairman said it was difficult to decide at this meeting whether to take this matter forward or not. He would discuss with the Chairman whether a new matter arising would be added to the agenda for the next meeting.

59. Ms HO Hang-mui said it was necessary to decide immediately, rather than after consulting with the Chairman, whether to take the matter forward at the meeting on 21 January.

60. The Vice Chairman invited the Secretary to explain the related matters. 61. The Secretary responded that after confirmation by the TMDC Chairman, the Secretariat had issued the agenda for the second TMDC meeting to be held on 21 January. If the TMDC decided to take this matter forward at the above meeting,

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Action the Secretariat would have to discuss with the TMDC Chairman what arrangements should be made accordingly. 62. After being consulted by the Vice Chairman, Members raised no objections to taking this matter forward at the above meeting.

63. Mr Kenneth CHEUNG said there were already 28 to 30 items to be discussed on the agenda for the second TMDC meeting, so he asked the Vice Chairman whether this matter would be placed before or after the items to be discussed. He was afraid that representatives from government departments would not wait until midnight.

64. The Vice Chairman responded that since the agenda for the second TMDC meeting had been issued, if the TMDC decided at this meeting that this matter be taken forward at the above meeting, the Secretariat would have to confer with the TMDC Chairman to arrange accordingly for this matter to be included in the above agenda, which already covered a host of discussion items (e.g. by rearranging the agenda items).

65. Ms SO Ka-man said that with regard to the issued agenda, she did not mind holding the meeting until midnight or 1:00 a.m. She opined that this was the responsibility of a councillor, so she would stay at the meeting through the night. She also said the fact that there were many agenda items should not be a reason for not having further discussion, so she hoped the matter would be taken forward.

66. Mr MA Kee said there was no particular need to discuss this matter further because he believed that when the relevant departments did not join this meeting, they would not join the next too. He suggested seeking to punish those departments, and invited District Officer (Tuen Mun) to negotiate with them for their presence; otherwise it was meaningless to hold the meeting.

67. The Vice Chairman said he would further discuss with the Chairman how to include this matter in the agenda for discussion at the second TMDC meeting.

68. The Vice Chairman said he had received an impromptu motion. As the motion was about the Wuhan pneumonia, he would like to know if any Members opposed adding the impromptu motion to the agenda. He said the impromptu motion, which was moved by Mr HO Kwok-ho and seconded by Mr Kenneth

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Action CHEUNG, Mr LAM Ming-yan, Mr LAM Kin-cheung, Ms LAW Pei-lee and Mr YAN Pui-lam, read: “I move that the district council request the Housing Department to allocate additional resources and manpower for enhanced cleaning and disinfection work in public housing (including directly-managed and outsourced public housing) in Tuen Mun, and to report to the council regularly on the progress of the work.” He asked if any Members opposed the addition of the impromptu motion to the agenda. He said Standing Order 18 provided that “The Chairman should put a motion to the meeting of the Council for discussion after it has been moved and seconded. In case there is no seconder, the motion shall fail and not be discussed by the Council”, and Standing Order 17 provided that “A member who wishes to move a motion is required to give the Secretary notice three clear working days before a forthcoming meeting unless otherwise agreed by the Chairman.” As Members had no objection to adding the impromptu motion to the agenda, he was willing to exercise discretion to deal with it. After a vote, the impromptu motion was carried with 14 votes in favour, 0 against and 0 abstentions. [Members voting in favour included: Ms Catherine WONG, Ms HO Hang-mui, Ms SO Ka-man, Mr YEUNG Chi-hang, Mr YAN Siu-nam, Mr WONG Tak-yuen, Mr HO Kwok-ho, Mr Kenneth CHEUNG, Mr WONG Hung-ming, Mr TSANG Kam-wing, Mr POON Chi-kin, Mr LO Chun-yu, Ms LAI Ka-man and Ms LAW Pei-lee.]

69. The Vice Chairman said he had just received another impromptu motion, and he would exercise discretion to process it. He said this was a motion of censure, which read: “The Tuen Mun District Council condemns the Hospital Authority, the Immigration Department and the Department of Health for remaining unconcerned, disregarding public opinion and not joining this meeting, which is the first district council meeting in the 18 districts held for discussion on the Wuhan pneumonia.” The motion was moved by Mr LEE Ka-wai, and seconded by Mr WONG Tak-yuen, Mr LEUNG Ho-man, Mr TSANG Chun-hing, Ms Catherine WONG, Mr LAM Chung-hoi, Mr HO Kwok-ho, Mr MA Kee, Mr LAM Kin-cheung, Ms LAW Pei-lee, Mr Kenneth CHEUNG, Mr YAN Siu-nam, Mr WONG Hung-ming, Mr POON Chi-kin, Mr TSANG Kam-wing, Ms SO Ka-man, Ms HO Hang-mui, Mr CHOW Kai-lim, Ms Beatrice CHU, Mr LO Chun-yu, Mr YEUNG Chi-hang and Mr WONG Tan-ching. He asked if any Members opposed the introduction of the impromptu motion. There being no objection, the Vice Chairman put the impromptu motion to the vote. After the vote, impromptu motion was carried with 21 votes in favour, 0 against and 0 abstentions.

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Action [Members voting in favour included: Ms Catherine WONG, Ms HO Hang-mui, Ms Beatrice CHU, Ms SO Ka-man, Mr YEUNG Chi-hang, Mr YAN Siu-nam, Mr WONG Tak-yuen, Mr LEE Ka-wai, Mr HO Kwok-ho、Mr LAM Kin-cheung, Mr CHOW Kai-lim, Mr MA Kee, Mr Kenneth CHEUNG, Mr LEUNG Ho-man, Mr WONG Hung-ming, Mr TSANG Chun-hing, Mr TSANG Kam-wing, Mr POON Chi-kin, Mr LO Chun-yu, Ms LAI Ka-man and Ms LAW Pei-lee.]

70. The Vice Chairman said he had just received another impromptu motion, which read: “It is recommended that DAB Chairperson, LEE Wai-king, be nominated to lead all DAB members, including Ms LAI Ka-man, to Wuhan, China for a visit on behalf of the members of the 18 district councils, and to communicate with the LOCPG for the release of real figures on cases in China, as so to ease concerns among Hong Kong people.” The motion was moved by Mr LO Chun-yu and Ms LAW Pei-lee, and seconded by Mr HO Kwok-ho and Mr Kenneth CHEUNG. He asked whether Members opposed adding the impromptu motion to the agenda.

71. Mr TSANG Chun-hing expressed opposition to the introduction of the impromptu motion as he reckoned that no single party should be allowed to do any activities and state position on political subjects or Hong Kong affairs on behalf of the 18 DCs without consent.

72. Mr MA Kee said there was something amiss with the content of the motion as the person mentioned in the motion had nothing to do with the TMDC. Therefore, he opposed the acceptance of the impromptu motion.

73. The Vice Chairman said he considered that the impromptu motion was not suitable for discussion at the TMDC meeting, as the TMDC only dealt with matters relating to Tuen Mun and could not represent the members of the 18 DCs. Therefore, he would not accept the impromptu motion.

(B) Discussion about 10/28 Toxic Gas Incident and Related Police Brutality

Problem (Written Response of Hong Kong Police Force) (Written Response of Fire Services Department)

74. The Vice Chairman said that with regard to the above matter, the TMDC Chairman had written to the Security Bureau (“SB”), the Environment Bureau

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Action (“ENB”), the HKPF and the Fire Services Department (“FSD”) inviting representatives of the bureaux and departments to the TMDC meeting. Afterwards, the Secretariat had received written responses from the HKPF and the FSD, and distributed the relevant documents to Members for perusal before the meeting. Besides, the Secretariat had received notifications that the SB and the ENB were unable to join the meeting. 75. Mr POON Chi-kin said that on 28 October the year before, the entire Tuen Mun had been hit by an unknown gas that was hard on the health of hundreds of thousands of residents. That night, some members of the public had gone to Tai Hing Operational Base spontaneously to seek an explanation from the Police. It had turned out that the Police had suppressed them with real tear gas rounds. Two and a half months had passed since then, but no department or authority had given any explanation to tell the 500 000 residents in Tuen Mun what had happened that night, except that some departments had claimed the incident had nothing to do with them. He said the Police’s refusal to send representatives to this meeting, which concerned them directly, not only showed that the relevant police officers had no intention to answer questions from elected councillors, but even reflected their affront to and contempt for elected councils. He further said that according to the HKPF’s reply to a letter from the Central and Western District Council, the Police said DCs must work together with the Government to fight against violence and were expected to serve as a role model in supporting the Police’s law enforcement. He believed he and many other Members took the same view that councillors would certainly join hands with the larger community to resist police brutality while expecting police officers to serve as a role model and to execute their duties without fear of or favour to any person and with malice or ill-will toward none. He said that while the sixth TMDC had just started to hold its meetings, many departments had refused to communicate with the TMDC on matters that bore substantially on people’s lives. He felt it was a very bad practice and wondered how to cooperate with them in the next four years in resolving issues relating to people’s lives at the council. The Government kept saying that it wanted to communicate, talk and interact with DCs, but it refused to come to answer questions at the request of an elected council. He wondered how communication could take place. Therefore, he strongly condemned the Police’s contempt for the TMDC, and solemnly stated that they would certainly probe into the “10/28” toxic gas incident and other related issues on behalf of Tuen Mun residents until the truth was revealed.

76. The Vice Chairman said that with regard to the above matter, the TMDC

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Action Chairman had written to the SB, the ENB, the HKPF and the FSD, inviting the bureaux and departments to send representatives to the TMDC meeting. Afterwards, the Secretariat had received written responses from the HKPF and the FSD, and distributed the relevant documents to Members for perusal before the meeting. Besides, the Secretariat had received notifications that the SB and the ENB were unable to join the meeting. 77. Mr LO Chun-yu agreed with Mr POON Chi-kin and thanked him for his findings and sharing. He said he was upset that the Police and the ENB were not represented at the meeting, and queried whether the above departments were concerned about police brutality in Tuen Mun or the environmental impacts of the “10/28” incident. He was worried about whether there were any residues in the community, and noted that despite the Government’s repeated denials, the public did not trust it at all. He reckoned that the residues on the street had direct impacts on members of the public (e.g. children, the elderly, pregnant women, or people of different ages) and expose them to risk, no matter whether they were in Kin Sang Estate or other areas. While wondering if government departments took the issue seriously, he said the TMDC must engage an independent environmental consultancy or laboratory to carry out tests in a fair and impartial manner, so as to give a true report of different toxic gases in the community. He added that many members of the public had raised with them the concern over whether there was dioxin or toxic gas near their home. Therefore, he once again condemned the authorities for disregarding the public’s opinion, health and safety.

78. Mr MA Kee said Members at the meeting could of course criticise the Government, especially the HKPF and the Environmental Protection Department for sending no representatives to the meeting, but that was just for record. Therefore, he reckoned this matter should be further discussed until they gave replies. If the TMDC was not satisfied with their written responses, the matter would be further discussed at the next meeting under matters arising, because it was a matter of great concern to Tuen Mun residents and, with the truth yet to emerge, many people were suffering physically and emotionally. In his view, it was incumbent on Members to keep following up on the matter until the truth came out.

79. Mr TSANG Kam-wing said the “10/28” toxic gas incident was a landmark incident in Tuen Mun and it was exactly about suspected tear gas. The Police had not fired tear gas or pepper balls in Tuen Mun recently, but on the day of the meeting or a few days before, there had still been residents who had told Members, their

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Action assistants or their friends that they could still notice the smell of tear gas. He said it was not certain whether residues of tear gas were still out there, or painful memories had already been deeply rooted in the mind of Tuen Mun residents. When Members wanted to discuss the issue at the DC level, no police representative was present to quell people’s doubts and anger. He strongly condemned the Police, and hoped the TMDC would continue to follow up on the incident and condemn related incidents. Moreover, they had again come under arbitrary arrest the day before the meeting. While observing that the Police had arrested members of public arbitrarily, they could see no grounds for the Police’s actions. He expected the TMDC to look more deeply into the issue of police brutality as well as the “10/28” incident, and seek justice for the victims of police brutality and the “10/28” incident. 80. Having read the Police’s reply to the Chairman’s letter, Mr WONG Tak-yuen noted that while the matter in question was “Discussion about 10/28 Toxic Gas Incident and Related Police Brutality Problem”, the Police’s reply only talked about “Follow-ups on Severe pneumonia in Wuhan and Discussion of Report on Irritant Odour Found in Tuen Mun on 28 October”, but made no mention of police brutality. He said the reason for inviting the HKPF to the meeting was to seek the Police’s response about police brutality. Many people had gone to Tai Hing Operational Base on 28 October to seek an explanation from the Police, but the Police had used excessive force, including but not limited to tear gas, at that time. He questioned if the Police should be required to give responses on the issue of police brutality, which was the focus of the current discussion. He further said the “10/28” incident appeared to be a major incident in Tuen Mun, but it represented only a part of the street protests that had taken place since June. However, there had been no findings yet because no department or organisation would admit what they had done or whether there was follow-up work. Also, he wanted to know what cleaning work the FEHD had carried out in view of the “10/28” incident, or whether cleaning had been stepped up at locations where tear gas had often been fired, such as San Hui or V City. But disappointedly, there were only empty chairs in front of him.

81. Ms HO Hang-mui said that if the Government handled the incident with such an attitude, it would be difficult to restore peace to society and unrest was destined to continue. The public’s doubts over the incident could be allayed or their confidence in the Government could be built only when the Government sincerely gave the public reasonable responses, especially the establishment of an independent commission of inquiry. Public confidence in the Government (especially the Police) had already fallen to a very low level and there was no confidence in the

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Action Police at all. She said Members would not be satisfied if the TMDC was seen as only a pen friend and given an account of the “10/28” incident in only a few dozens of words. She believed that no results would come out of the discussion at this meeting as no government department representatives were present to give responses, and Members definitely did not accept written responses. She said the committee on civil rights development had been set up, so she asked whether the matter could be referred to the above committee for long-term follow-up until the Government responded to the five demands. 82. The Vice Chairman said that in addition to discussing this matter, Members might also consider talking about how to further discuss the incident.

83. Mr LAM Kin-cheung said that in his view, it was incumbent on the Government or the HKPF to act on their own initiative to follow up on the incident because the public did pay taxes. He said it was unreasonable for civil servants to ask for pay increases when they failed to do their basic work well. He said he was disappointed that the Government antagonised, rather than served, the people. A responsible government should conduct a thorough investigation on its own initiative when 500 000 residents were left prey to unknown gas; if the thorough investigation was to be carried out by the DC, what was the point of having the Government. He said government departments had merely replied that the incident had nothing to do with them, but no joint or inter-departmental meeting had been formed to undertake any direct investigation and follow-up. He understood it was hard to follow up on gas, but the Government should show an attitude of trying to investigate thoroughly instead of stopping there. Moreover, he suggested the TMDC committee on district facilities install digital display air monitors by reference to Mr POON Chi-kin’s experience during his earlier visit to Taiwan. He reckoned that to prevent the next public hazard or unknown gas incident, the TMDC should act first to install air monitors, so that data could be shown on display screens at different places.

84. The Vice Chairman said Members needed to discuss whether this matter should be referred to a committee for follow-up or taken forward for further discussion. He said the terms of reference of the seven committees were yet to be confirmed, and while the names of the committees could suggest which committee should follow up on the matter, it was still necessary to refer to the terms of reference to determine exactly which committee should follow it up. He invited Members to speak on how to follow up on the matter in the future.

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Action 85. Ms Catherine WONG said the matter could be followed up at any meeting, but the question at issue was whether the departments would attend the meeting. Mr Chris TANG, Commissioner of Police, had attended a meeting of the Central and Western District Council but did not come to Tuen Mun somehow. She opined that when the committees were yet to be formed, this matter should be taken forward and the Police should be invited to a meeting to report on investigation findings. She said the Police had denied in its written response that tear gas rounds had been fired, and the Environmental Protection Department (“EPD”) had made the same denial. With regard to the proposal of setting up air monitoring stations, she said such a device was in place at Tuen Mun Town Hall, but the authorities had not released the data in the previous term and the above device might not be able to identify the content of the unknown gas this time. Therefore, she suggested the Police and the EPD be asked to release the investigation findings at the next discussion for Members’ reference. Also, she opined that whether to install more air monitoring stations could be up for discussion.

86. Mr LAM Kin-cheung said he agreed that this matter should be referred to a committee for follow-up. While, as mentioned by the Vice Chairman, the terms of reference were yet to be confirmed, this matter could be further referred to the appropriate committee for follow-up after they were confirmed. On follow-up action, as unknown gas was involved, he agreed with Mr CHEUNG Ho-sum that it was necessary to invite experts to give explanations at a TMDC meeting. He believed experts’ advice was needed to prevent the same incident from happening again.

87. Ms LAW Pei-lee said it did not matter at what meeting the discussion would take place, but she believed that the TMDC discussion would serve little purpose without the Police’s presence. In her opinion, today the Police always stood against the public and had objections on any matters that the public wanted to follow up on or paid attention to. She did not understand why their pay increases should be given the green light, and asked whether DCs had the strength to stand against the police pay increases. The police brutality issue aside, the Police neither patrolled nor handled cases of illegal parking. She said it was unreasonable for the Police to do nothing on one hand and ask for pay increases on the other hand. She said that if the Police again failed to join a TMDC meeting, Members should move to oppose their pay increases.

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Action 88. Mr POON Chi-kin said the decision on the specific approach to this matter, such as whether to take it forward at the next TMDC meeting, could be left to Members. With regard to the long-term approach, he said this matter had two parts: what the unknown gas in the “10/28” incident was, how it had been dealt with and who should be held responsible; and the issues arising from the above incident (including the many occasions of crackdown and arbitrary arrest in Kin Sang Estate). In his view, it was more appropriate for the committee on civil rights development to follow up on the issue of arbitrary arrest, whereas the unknown gas issue should be referred to the environment-related committee. He reckoned that the first question was whether to divide the matter into two parts or deal with it as a whole. He invited Members to offer ideas.

89. Mr Kenneth CHEUNG opined that given that there were statistics on Members’ attendance at meetings and those who failed to attend the TMDC meetings three times in a row would be disqualified from membership, the Secretariat might compile statistics on government departments’ absence rates. He said that if departments often failed to join meetings to answer questions upon the TMDC’s invitation, the council might have to publish these statistics for the general public’s reference. While the Government was asking for pay increases, many senior officials earned higher incomes than Members, and policy bureaux and departments failed to send a representative to the meeting despite the large number of officers they had. Therefore, he opined that the absence rates should be recorded and published.

90. Ms HO Hang-mui agreed that this matter be divided into two parts for referral to the Environment, Hygiene and District Development Committee and the committee on civil rights development. In response to Ms LAW Pei-lee’s comments on the police pay increases, she suggested a letter be written in the name of the TMDC seeking the LegCo’s rejection of the pay increases.

91. The Vice Chairman said he would suggest to the Chairman that this matter be taken forward, and that after the committees’ terms of reference were confirmed at the next meeting, there be further discussion on how to refer this matter to relevant committees for follow-up.

IV. Any Other Business 92. There being no other business, the Vice Chairman closed the first special meeting at 4:53 p.m.

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Action Tuen Mun District Council Secretariat Date: February 2020 File Ref: HAD TMDC/13/25/DC/20

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