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Table of Contents

Creating a Safe Haven Marriage: Building Emotional Closeness and Safety Sharon May, Ph.D.. ......................................................................................................................................................... 2

Building a Safe Haven in Marriage I Archibald Hart Ph.D. & Sharon May, Ph.D. ........................................................................................................... 9

Building a Safe Haven in Marriage II Archibald Hart Ph.D. & Sharon May, Ph.D ......................................................................................................... 19

Module Two

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Creating a Safe

Haven Marriage:

Building Emotional

Closeness and Safety

(Video Presentation)

Sharon May, Ph.D.

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I. Introduction

A. 1 Peter 3:7

B. Proverbs 31:10

C. Ephesians 5:25-33

D. 1 Peter 3:2-4

E. Marriage is Hard Work; First seven years are very hard work

F. Marriage is Hard Work because it consists of imperfect human beings with differences which triggers

arguments leading to hurt, emotional disconnect, and feelings of helplessness.

G. Husbands and Wives Have Lofty Goals for Avoiding Arguments in Marriage

1. Research shows couples who do not argue while dating, engaged, or married have a high incident of

divorce.

2. Arguing is not dangerous to marriage

H. The Key is to Stay Emotionally Connected When Arguing Despite Your Differences.

II. Building Blocks of a Safe-Haven

A. Proximity

1. To be close

2. To spend time together

B. Trust

1. To be trust “worthy”

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2. To say to your spouse, “you can trust me with your heart”

C. Emotional and Physical Activity

1. To be emotionally attuned to spouse and his/her feelings

D. Responsiveness

1. To respond in the best interest of the marriage for personal growth and development

E. Repair

1. Key

2. Bookend argument with good

3. Unrepaired arguments lead to resentment and hurt

4. Key reasons couples divorce or have unhappy marriage is emotional disconnection

F. Becoming

1. Be willing to grow and become all that God has for you

III. The Ideal Safe-Haven is not always Established

A. Galatians 5:15

B. Poor Conflict Management and Arguing Can Destroy the Safe-Haven in Marriage

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C. Triggers

1. Finance

2. Children

3. Sex

4. In-laws

5. How time is spent

6. Chore issues

D. Dragon

1. Fears

2. Vulnerabilities

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3. Sensitivities

4. Tell us things that are not necessarily true

E. Amygdala Hijacking

1. Danger

2. Releases stress hormones

3. Heart races

4. Vision of circumstances becomes narrow

5. Negative thoughts of spouse

F. Criticism is a Legitimate Complaint With a “What is Wrong with You”

G. Defensiveness is to Say “I Do Not Have a Problem, You Have a Problem for Thinking I Have a

Problem.”

H. Contempt Leads to Disgust

I. Withdrawal can Take Anywhere from Twenty Minutes to Two Hours for Stress Hormones to Drain

from the Body

J. Affirm the Safe-Haven Before Disconnecting from an Argument

K. A Lot of Arguments Happen When You Are Trying to Talk About the Argument. Do Not Do it

Before You Go to Bed.

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IV. Understanding Reactions

A. It is Important that We Understand How We Justify our Reactions and the Impact of Those

Reactions on Our Spouse.

B. Expressing Views in a Slow-Starter by Means of Simple Words Used to Facilitate Positive Reactions.

C. It is Very Important to Share What We Want our Spouse to Understand in a Very Gentle and

Honoring Manner. It is Also Important to Know How to Listen to a Complaint.

D. Sometimes it is Hard to Self-Reflect and See Whether There is Any Truth in Our Spouse’s Complaint.

Oftentimes We Just Want to be Defensive.

E. Always Find Ways to Turn Toward Each Other Rather Than Fight Out of the Amygdala Hijacking.

F. There is a Need to Have Understanding Between Spouses – Each Spouse Must Trust the Other’s

Heart.

G. If You Feel Your Safe-Haven is Threatened, Call Your Pastor or Local Counseling Center and Seek

Help.

H. Affirm, Build, Nurture, and Grow the Safe-Haven

V. Five Key Daily Connecting Times

A. When You Wake Up

B. When You Say Goodbye in the Morning

C. In the Middle of the Day

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D. When You Come Home, Greet Your Spouse at the Door

E. When You Say Goodnight

F. Psalm 91:1-2

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Building a Safe Haven

in Marriage I

(Radio Broadcast)

Archibald Hart, Ph.D. & Sharon May, Ph.D.

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Abstract

Every couple fights, but it is how they fight, and what happens after the fight

that can predict whether they will stay married or not. In this presentation,

Dr. Dobson, Dr. May and Dr. Hart explore the principles of Emotion Focused

Therapy, identifying three key elements for building safety in a relationship

(trust, emotional availability, and caring responsiveness). Drawing on

attachment research, Dr. May discusses the importance of identifying each

partner’s attachment style and understanding how men and women express

emotions and needs differently. Nearly all couples come into marriage with

baggage that will bring about conflict, but these conflicts can be handled in such

a way that creates safety and trust.

Learning Objectives

1. Participants will name and describe each attachment style and its impact

on the ability to emotionally connect.

2. Participants will explore the three elements necessary for building

safety in a relationship.

3. Participants will identify the need for building an emotional safe haven in

marriage and how this can prevent unhappy relationships and divorce.

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Dr. James Dobson: Someone said that the Lord was not a bridge over trouble;

He provides a tunnel through it. Was He there for you?

Sharon Hart May: In very real ways. When I took the time to slow myself

down, look up and look around I could see evidence of God there in very real

ways.

Dr. James Dobson: What is a safe haven for marriage?

Archibald Hart: Marriage is hard work, and marriage makes more enemies

than any other relationship. The illusion that marriage just works out is not

true.

Dr. James Dobson: That conflict often hurts too, and it is intense.

Archibald Hart: It is intense. This book came out of Sharon’s research where

she looked at a phenomenon, a particular approach, but it is about building a

safe haven. It’s about the bond (the attachment that occurs between two

people). Unless it is emotionally safe, nothing else works and everything falls

apart. A place that is safe enough to say what you feel. A place that is safe

enough to express what your wants are. A place that is safe enough so that you

can give it your whole heart. How to create that sort of bond is really what this

book is about.

Dr. James Dobson: What percentage of the married folks achieve this goal of

building a relationship you want to come home to.

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Sharon Hart May: Very few. I think nowadays there is a lot of pressure on

marriage, but I think that is the reason why people do divorce. They divorce

to find that safe haven, the secure attachment bond where they feel you

know me, see me, understand me and value me.

That, today, is a heart desire and a demand on marriage that maybe wasn’t

such a demand years back.

Dr. James Dobson: You just explained why people divorce, what about why

people marry?

Sharon Hart May: We are created by God to be in relationship first with him,

and then with others. We are not meant to go through life alone. The Lord has

put something in us that draws us to other people and to draw us to a mate

of the opposite sex. We get to the brink of marriage all hopeful that we will

be seen, understood, loved and valued.

Maybe we didn’t get that growing up, and we long for that; this one person will

give us what we never had or will continue giving us what we long for.

Dr. James Dobson: That’s the expectation. This is God’s plan.

Sharon Hart May: It is God’s plan, and it is God’s plan for us to not only be in a

close relationship with him where we are talking and having a flow, He longs

for us to have a close, wonderful relationship with our spouses. So it is God’s

design to have some of these expectations met. We start getting in life and a

few years pass. Our differences all begin to mean you don’t love me and care

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for me. “My greatest fears have happened. I’ve married the man who doesn’t

see me or value me. He is aloof. He’s cold, and he is distant and disconnected,

although when I first married him he was an anchor, strong and stable.”

In attachment theory, the attachment system clicks in and says, “They are not

there for you. Danger!” What happens when our body and our insides (the

brain) senses danger? We want to do one of several things: fight or flight. What

women usually do is fight.

Dr. James Dobson: Can you give us any idea of how many people come into

marriage with tremendous baggage from childhood, especially in this day

where marriages are falling apart? There are multiple marriages and all kinds of

difficulties (i.e., child abuse, etc.). How common is that?

Archibald Hart: 99%. It is very high. Though there is the rare person who

comes into marriage with a rich heritage. Even with good parents, it is not

necessarily a criticism of parents. Unfortunately, no longer are parents the

exclusive influence in a child’s life. A lot of this baggage comes from the

environment in which one is embedded. We should all make the assumption

when we go into marriage that we are bringing a lot of baggage with us and

now the work begins.

Marriage is not like getting a brand new car that is clean, starts nice and

run smooth then slowly deteriorates. It is the other way around. Marriage

starts broken. You’ve got a box of parts and no instruction manual. The

tendency is for young people today to idealize marriage.

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It feels good, and that may be one reason why you want to begin your

attachment, but now the hard work begins.

Sharon Hart May: What we talk about in the book, Safe Haven Marriage, is specifically what we bring to

marriage: our experience of being loved.

Dr. James Dobson: Fights are inevitable.

Sharon Hart May: It is how you fight, what you do with the fight and what

happens after the fight. If a couple is able to have a “fight” and come back

and emotionally reconnect that will predict if they can stay married or not.

Dr. James Dobson: How do you predict that?

Archibald Hart: You bring to your relationship a style of attaching. It is not that difficult.

Dr. James Dobson: What are those styles?

Sharon Hart May: Secure attachment style: I know you are there for me, I know I can reach you if I need you

and I know that you will love me and care for me in return.

The avoidant attachment style says: You won’t be there for me, and actually

you might scold me for having these needs. So it is best to shut down, be

neutral, not feel or have those deep longing or needs. Everyone should feel

that way.

The anxious attachment style says: I’m not sure if you are going to be there,

and I so long for you to be there. I need to be scanning the horizon. Do you love

me or not love me?

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The fearful attachment style: The couples/individuals have come from more

abusive families where the person who they thought would love them and

be there for them was actually abusive.

Dr. James Dobson: Compare the desire for attachment in men with women. Is

it the same in both?

Sharon Hart May: God has placed within all of us a desire to be loved, valued,

respected, seen and understood.

The way it is expressed may be different, but the longing is the same.

Archibald Hart: What this means is that men mask their feelings, but deep

down they long for the same intimacy. They’ve been hurt so often. They feel so

vulnerable and threatened.

Dr. James Dobson: They have no idea how to deal with this angry woman.

Sharon Hart May: Exactly.

Dr. James Dobson: She is on his case all the time, and he knows she wants something but he is not prepared to

meet it. He just gets quieter.

Sharon Hart May: He feels that no matter what he gives her it is not enough.

They start to shut down, and then men start saying, “I don’t have it in me.”

Dr. James Dobson: What you described is a very typical pattern. It can be

different.

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Sharon Hart May: The man gets overwhelmed with a woman’s emotions. He

doesn’t know what to do with it. A man will try to fix it or problem solve. A

man has not really been taught how to sit with those emotions and how to

understand and listen. When he learns how to, he understands how powerful it

is.

Men tend to withdraw and pull away to get away from

that intensity. It is that cycle that couples get stuck in.

Dr. James Dobson: Sharon, in your graduate work toward your Ph.D. in

marriage and family counseling, you have examined various approaches to

therapy for people who are in that kind of situation. You have discovered, and

others confirmed, that there are only two that work very well.

Sharon Hart May: 75% of couples who say, “our marriage is terrible, this is not a

safe haven and divorce is a lovely option” will come into emotion focused

therapy counseling. At the end of counseling, sometimes as short as 6 months,

there relationship is significantly improved.

Dr. James Dobson: Emotion focused therapy means you are talking about

those feelings and how to deal with them

Sharon Hart May: Yes. We are identifying this fight cycle. We are identifying

the emotions that fuel this fight cycle, and we are helping the couple talk at

the heart of their relationship rather than the behaviors.

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Archibald Hart: You bring it out into the open in a way that is safe and that

doesn’t humiliate one of the partners. Then begin to work constructively with

those emotions.

Sharon Hart May: In most marriage and family therapy, we haven’t done so

well. Look at the divorce rate. We are not really impacting it very much. We

have tended to focus more on behaviors or our past early childhood

experiences and not really touching the heart of relationship. The next most

researched model has come from Neil Jacobson’s integrative behavioral

therapy where he says we are no longer going to try to teach people to

change; we are going to help people accept. When we can help a couple

emotionally connect, that is powerful enough that it helps marriages last. We

are doing it with quite high success rate. It is starting to sweep our field.

Dr. James Dobson: Is it not possible to start these things off before people

head into a bad marriage? These are things that could be talked through, but

they are usually not. Premarital counseling is usually focused on the mechanics,

sex, money, etc.

Archibald Hart: It’s not that that isn’t important. We have totally neglected the

bonding process. We have not helped them examine their attachment styles.

There are really three ingredients that help us build a safe place.

Sharon Hart May: One is trust: I trust that you will be there for me no matter

what. No matter how much we fight. No matter how much our differences are.

You really are going to see this to the bitter end.

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Second, if I feel that you are emotionally available and accessible. No matter

what we are going through, we can pause, not just to give our physical

attention, but our emotional attention.

Thirdly, be caringly responsive. I am going to consider who you are, weigh who

you are and try to take your perspective.

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Building a Safe Haven

in Marriage II

(Radio Broadcast)

Archibald Hart, Ph.D. & Sharon May, Ph.D.

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Abstract

In this continued broadcast, Dr.’s Arch Hart and Sharon May further discuss

what it means to build a safe haven marriage. By understanding common

“fight” cycles and helping couples talk from their hearts, rather than attacking

their partner’s behaviors, therapists can instill new hope in a relationship and

empower a couple to use emotions to connect and bond. Learning to

understand one another and meeting one another’s needs is a key ingredient to

maintaining a safe haven, even during conflict. Extended family is sometimes

helpful in creating a safe haven for one spouse when the other is physically or

mentally unable to do so due to uncontrollable circumstances. The Lord is the

ultimate source of safe haven when all else fails, and He will guide couples

through the difficulties of relationship in marriage.

Learning Objectives

1. Participants will be equipped to identify a couple’s “fight” cycle and

foster new conflict resolution skills that facilitate deeper intimacy.

2. Participants will discuss in greater detail how to meet one another’s’

needs before, during, and after conflicts to help foster a continued feeling

of safe haven in marriage.

3. Participants will come to understanding that God is the ultimate source of

safe haven when spouse, family, and loved ones have failed in that area.

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Ryan Dobson: So glad you’ve taken the time to be with us today on Family Talk. I want to ask you a question. If

you’re married, do you and your spouse find yourself falling into the same patterns when you have conflict and

tensions start to rise?

Luanne Crane: Well Ryan, I think I can answer that question for many listeners. I mean, that does seem to happen

again and again in relationships. We have this default response we give whenever that conflict arises. The question

is, how do we get out of the same old rut when it comes to dealing with differences with our spouse? Doctor, that’s

a question for you?

Dr. Dobson: It is a question and an important one because married couples do have conflict and the way you deal

with it determines the health of the relationship. I mean, you’re going to have it, but what are you going to do when

it occurs? And that’s what we’re going to talk about again today as we revisit a conversation I had with Dr.

Archibald Hart and his daughter, Dr. Sharon Heart-May, about how to fight fair. This is one of the core issues of

why some marriages go the distance and why others seem to be doomed even before they begin. You simply have to

learn to get this right if you want what I’ve called in one of my books, Love for a Lifetime.

Luanne Crane: Dr. Hart, I know, is really a longtime friend of yours.

Dr. Dobson: Well he is, and so is his wife, Kathleen. He is also Dean Emeritus of the Fuller Graduate School of

Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary and he’s the author of many books dealing with relationships. I love

having him in the studio and when he comes we usually wind up re-airing what happens there because it’s always

unique. He’s always got something to say that’s helpful to us and it was a privilege on his occasion that we are going

to have his daughter, Dr. Sharon Hart-May to join us as well. She’s a licensed marriage and family therapist and the

director of the Haven of Safety Relationship Center at the Heart Institute. Did I get all that right?

Luanne Crane: I think you did.

Ryan Dobson: You did, Dr. Hart and his daughter wrote a book on this topic. It’s called “Safe Haven Marriage:

Building a Relationship You Want to Come Home to.” So let’s go ahead and listen to the second half of the

conversation, Dad, you had with Dr. Archibald Hart and Dr. Sharon Hart-May on this Family Talk broadcast.

Dr. Dobson: I want to kind of key off of something that we talked about last time and it has to do with this vicious

cycle that spouses that tend to get caught up in. If a couple has fallen into a pattern of the wife being frustrated up to

her eyes with her husband, you know, he doesn’t say the right things. He doesn’t do the right things. There are many

people that are experiencing that now and it goes two ways. So you’ve got that pattern, and the guy is just into his

own world. He’s angry about what’s going on. He’s bewildered and instead of defending himself, wouldn’t it be just

pretty straight forward for him to sit down and say, “Let me just be honest with you. I doing understand how I’m

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failing you? I really do love you. I really do want to get along with you, and if you’ll help me, if you’ll teach me

what it is you need from me, I’ll give it to you, but at this moment I don’t have a clue.” You know, Shirley did that

for me when we first got marriage. It was that way. I didn’t understand what it was she needed. She was reaching

for something. We had a wonderful relationship right from the beginning, but as with all other marriages, you

know, there are times when I failed her and she would reacted to that and I honestly didn’t know what she needed.

And she taught me and I was listening. You know, that’s the difference, I guess. I was listening and I learned it.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Yes, and you just described pretty much the heart of emotion focused therapy. And you’re

right because you guys weren’t stuck in such a rigid cycle and you weren’t stuck and overloaded with resentfulness

and hurts and attachment injuries and wounds that you were able to slow down and say, “You know, even though I

see you’re angry. Even though I see the back of your head all the time, I think you really do care for me. And I

really care of you.” When a couple can start there, you’re right, it’s powerful, very, very powerful.

Dr. Dobson: And it’s so simple.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Yes, so simple, isn’t it? -and it’s Biblical.

Dr. Dobson: -and a woman melts when you do that.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Yes. Yes.

Dr. Dobson: He hasn’t changed anything. All he done is, “I’m trying to understand and I want what you want. I

just don’t know how to get there.”

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Exactly, and you’re right, men melt at the same time cause that can bring tears to a man’s

eyes to hear his wife say that at the same time and when you’ve seen your spouse’s anger- I had one couple that she

would throw shoes at their big anniversary clock every time she got in a fight. And I said, “Well, when you’re

throwing those shoes and you’ve got that anger and you’re crying, what do you long for him to do at that moment?”

And he’s folded his arms and said, “I know what she wants me to do. Pick up the keys and drive off.” -which he did

all the time. She said, “No, I want you to reach for me, put your arm around my waist, and pull me close, and say I

love you, my princess, and we’ll work through this. It will be ok.” She just wept and melted and his jaw dropped and

said, “I can do that. I just can’t handle the shoes flying.” and then he was able to say, “I long for the same thing that

you would come along side of me and say you are my hero, you are. I respect you and love you and I’m going to be

by your side no matter what.” It is powerful.

Dr. Dobson: If you could say, let’s take the fight we had last Wednesday night I came home from work I’d worked

12 hours or 10 or 11. I came home really exhausted and when I got home, you want me to do all this stuff around

the house. You want me to help carry your load. I kind of felt like I’d done it. I kind of felt like I’d paid the dues

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for that day, but you wanted more from me. Now, what would you have wanted me to do? You really want me,

when I’m absolutely worn out and I’ve worked about as hard as you have, to start working again? You want me to

be a wimp? Tell me what you want of me and I’ll try to hear you, you know.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: You’re right. Absolutely. I need just to get a little respect, a little thankfulness. Yes, you

have worked all day, and I don’t want to dump on you, but how can we partner in this? Maybe the two of them sit at

the kitchen table and say, “Forget the dishes. Let’s have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee and a cookie”- and they sit

and talk about the day and both laugh about. – “Well, let’s get the paper plates out for tomorrow night,” you know,

and team in that together.

Dr. Dobson: The trouble is resentment that isn’t resolved begins to be stored and it gets rancid down there.

Dr. Archibald Hart: It’s that deep down level of trust is there. That’s why I think these 3 key ingredients are so

important because when they are in place then you find it easier to make these other connections.

Dr. Dobson: Alright, give some advice about how to get off on the right foot and how not to wind up fussing and

clawing. You know, life is so short, when you’re at the stage where Arch you and I are. You realize that it passes

very quickly. Why blow it on fighting and scratching and clawing each other and hurting one another and being

angry all the time? There’s got to be a better way to live than that.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Absolutely- if at heaven’s gates God doesn’t care whether or not you folded your towels,

don’t make that the biggest battle at home.

Dr. Dobson: -Or the tooth paste or the toilet paper over the top.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Pick your battles.

Dr. Archibald Hart: My first comment that I’ll leave Sharon to say something, say to young people today, stop

thinking about finding the right person. Marriage is all about becoming the right person and there’s a vast difference

between those two. It is all about becoming the right person, not finding the right person.

Dr. Dobson: I had a young man tell me not too long ago that he really was excited about this girl that he thought he

was falling in love with. And he said, “Oh man, she’s just wonderful.” And I said, “Tell me, you really would like

to marry her?”

“Yes.”

“Tell me why”

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And he said, “Well, she makes me feel good when I’m with her, and she seems to understand the passion for my

life, what I want to be doing.” He ticked off about 6 things and I said, “You realize that all of those things that you

mentioned is focused on you? I didn’t hear you say anything about - this is a woman that I want to pour my life into.

She’s got character. She is noble. She will make a great mother.” Everything was focused on him and in marriage

we tend to do that don’t we? We marry somebody that’s going to be a credit to us, instead of what can I do for this

person? When you turn that thing around, you’re in good shape.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Yes, and I’d say, learn how to be a safe person for your spouse, that person that you are

marrying, and to do that learn what you do when you feel someone’s not there for you. When you feel that the man

you are getting engaged to or marrying, when he doesn’t pay that attention to you, when he forgets a date comes late

and you just feel rubbed the wrong way, how do you react? Do you explode, do you sort of sulk for a while and

then he has to guess, “Honey, what’s a matter, what’s a matter, what’s a matter” and you say nothing, nothing?

Dr. Archibald Hart: “I don’t want to talk about it.”

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Understand how you deal with those attachment needs and longings and how your

attachment system works. Understand that about yourself and then try and understand that about your spouse, about

that other person in your life. What do they do when they shut down, pull away? Are they really saying, “I’m

thinking twice about being with you” or are they really saying, “Oh my goodness, I just failed her. She doesn’t value

me” and start seeing each other through different lens through a lens of, we all are struggling human beings who

long to be loved and seen, to be close and connected, and we all do it in strange ways that sometimes pushes us

away from each other, instead of drawing us close. And when we understand that about each other and then we say,

“You know honey, you have just disconnected. You’re off in that other room flipping through the TV buttons. Did I

say something that hurt your feelings? Do you need a little bit of space, cause you know I love you and care for you”

and try- just go to the heart of the matter rather than fighting with those little dragons, I call. You know, don’t fight

with her saying, “You know, “Well, you didn’t put your socks back” just say, “Honey, what’s under that? You

know, do you feel disrespected?”

Dr. Dobson: You know, this illustration again, it will be the last time I refer to myself because I don’t want to

focus this on me, but in our early married life, I was a student just like you were in graduate school- both of you and

I was working pretty hard. I was working full time and going to graduate school and on a fast track to get the PhD

and began to hear Shirley talking about feeling distant from me and the attachment I felt was weaker. And if she

were sitting her today, she would bring this up and she would tell you about the night that we went for a walk and

she expressed some of those things. And I took the better part of the semester off to reconnect with her because that

mattered to me even more than my professional goals.

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Dr. Sharon Hart-May: And that is so powerful, Dr. Dobson. If I could say that right now that couples usually wait

5 to 6 years before getting help. And those are couples that are 5-6 years of feeling emotionally disconnected,

walking on eggshells, feeling like, “I’m worthless, you don’t care for me. I’m afraid you’re going to leave me. I’m

afraid you don’t love me” and stuck in this fighting cycle. That’s a long time, and I urge those couples that if

they’re right now feeling, you know, “I feel disconnected. I don’t felt like coming home. I would not risk putting my

heart into my spouse’s hands.” I urge them to get help. Read a book, talk to their pastor, pray together, ask the Lord

to guide them to counseling, and I’d also want to say that sometimes that week- one hour a week counseling isn’t

always effective. That intensives, the intensives that I’ve been doing with couples, have been profoundly effective

that they come for 2 or 3 days.

Dr. Dobson: That’s encouraging that there is success there.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: There is success. There is a way to emotionally reconnect. There are wonderful resources

out there.

Dr. Dobson: And you’ve documented them with research. This is not just anecdotal. You have seen that you can

help people overcome this deep attachment.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Yes, there is hope and as you said, it’s simple. It is simple; it’s not this big, as some men

say, going into the past- no. It’s just learning how to come heart to heart, human being to human being, and share on

a deeper level that keeps them emotionally connected.

Ryan Dobson: You’re listening to Dr. Sharon Hart-May along with her father, Dr. Archibald Hart, here on this

Family Talk broadcast. If the discussion today has been helpful for your marriage, make sure to stop by

myfamilytalk.com for even more resources to help strengthen your relationship with your spouse. We are going to

pick up the conversation right at the point where Dr. Arch Hart addresses the incredibly important question about

how those that come from broken families can stop the cycle of divorce.

Dr. Archibald Hart: I can speak from experience. My brother and I both experienced divorce at a young age, but

neither of us have been divorce because we - it was so painful for us as children going through this, and when we

married, we resolved we would make this marriage work and my brother is not a Christian. So the cycle can be

broken, but one of the things you have to be alert to is, what baggage you bring over from your parents because we

often, the issues we deal with and fight about in marriage, are the same issues our parents were fighting about and

we never learn from that.

Dr. Dobson: Isn’t that amazing- that we just pick up the worst they have to offer sometimes.

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Dr. Archibald Hart: We continue the battle.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: I’d say, learn how you protect your heart. When you’re hurt that is just really powerful. Do

you pull away? Do you shut down? Do you feel no one could really be there for you? Do you feel anxious and that

you always have to be hyper vigilant in your relationships? As you understand how you related to other people and

how you’re repeating patterns or reacting to how you were raised and previous relationships, in multiple marriages,

it’s a very powerful healing. You have what we call an emotional corrective experience. You have a new experience

of being loved and cared for in a safe and secure relationship. And I thing that’s why those children and adults who

have not had good attachment experiences growing up, find good mentors and good people in their lives that they

can have that emotionally corrective experience and new experience that corrects and changes and actually changes

the make up in your brain and how your brain and how your body reacts and your- it’s quite fascinating, but that’s a

whole other discussion and so those healing relationships are very, very important.

Dr. Dobson: Sharon, we’ve talked about the angry woman who is so frustrated. The anger comes out of

frustration, and she’s just seething with it because she can’t make this man be what she needs him to be or even

understand what the goal is and he’s not listening frequently. What would you say to the women listening to us,

who are angry? I mean anger is an involuntary response, sometimes you know you don’t. You know, the scriptures

say be anger and sin not because sometimes you can’t help being angry or at least it’s very, very difficult.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: I would say to that woman, understand that your anger is your protective emotion sort of

like the coating on the M&M or the smarties candy. It’s protecting something deeper and that you are very afraid of

taking your heart and placing it into the hand of your spouse and you’re afraid that it will melt. That your heart will

be hurt, so it’s easier to be angry. It’s easier just to say, “I’m going to protect myself, and how dare you and you

know you just weren’t there last night. You got home late, and I had to go off to the PTA meeting by myself and I

thought you were going to be there and as soon as you hear that anger uh, oh gosh I’m really angry, but you know

what underneath I guess I’m really hurt. I’m really afraid that I’m going to be alone because growing up I was

alone. I wasn’t- really no one was really there for me.” And when I understand that softer, that softer emotion that I

protect with that anger I can then slow down and say now from that softer, gentler place. Maybe from that place I

should approach my husband, and she then realizes that softening and coming from that softer place actually

penetrates her husband’s heart more so than her anger because when he gets the anger well, you know what – you’re

a man- you know what you do when you come up on-

Dr. Dobson: If you ask her to think back when they were dating, I bet you she didn’t attract him with anger.

Somewhere that anger came along, if she’d been that mad he’d been gone.

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Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Now I will also say that her anger was probably there when they were dating and probably

because that’s a way of relating and attachment style, a way of being in relationship that she brought with her into

the relationship.

Dr. Dobson: -but she hid it frequently.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: She hid it, or he said, “Oh that’s fine. I can understand why she’s so angry. It’s alright.

Isn’t she cute when she gets -she fluffing her feathers” you know, and as the years go by, it’s not so fun and cute.

And it’s more hurtful and now he’s saying, “She’s angry because she’s disappointed in me. I’m wrong. I have let

her down. I’m not the man she wanted. I’m a big disappointment, and now it begins to mean something very deep

and hurtful and wounding, but we all have that fight cycle. Even my engaged couples- I can identify it, but you’re

right, it’s masked; it’s not as heightened.

Dr. Archibald Hart: There are times when a spouse for a variety of reasons is not in a position to be a safe haven.

I’m thinking of when a psychotic condition or something emerges. Jim, you really have - but I’m thinking more of

those that you have no control over those conditions and then that takes a slightly different tact for you because they

are not functioning healthily enough to be a safe haven. And I happen to believe that one enlarges the circle that

provides a haven of safety. I believe in extending family. I think one of the saddest things of our day and age is that

we no longer fostered extended family phenomenon. We know what it’s like to be an extending family in times of

crisis. Now you’re supposed to marry and go off and never see your parents again. We fear this thing of

enmeshment of being too attached to your parents. I think there is and then there’s always the people I think, the

only safe haven is God himself in Christ and that’s why we foster a spiritual relationship, a personal relationship

with God through Jesus Christ. And I think often that can be the only safe haven given unfortunately to other

circumstances.

Dr. Dobson: Sharon, would you agree that in most cases a woman has more needs than a man can meet and she’s

got to find a way to meet them in other ways. That no man is equipped to handle the full range of female emotional

needs and that she needs girlfriends and she needs activities and she needs things that also meet those needs.

Otherwise, you dump this load of anger on the relationship and it can’t survive that and it’s possible to already have

met some of those needs by the time you come together.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Well, you know, I think we are whole people and maybe we can take an illustration of the

pieces of a pie. I think a man is able to fully be a safe haven for his wife and to nurture her, but we were created to

have multiple relationships. And when we look to our spouse to be the answer or to fulfill every single piece of the

pie then he will fall short. We’re created to be in relationship with our Heavenly Father, first and foremost. And I

feel that the man is capable of meeting the husband need in a woman and all that she needs. When we are whole

people in community, not in isolation. And when we live in isolation then all the demands become my spouse. My

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spouse is not giving me my self-esteem, not the friendship not this- then it becomes the pressure and the stress on

the marriage, but when we live in a full community then our husbands as men are able to be there in a very rich and

deep way for a woman. That is satisfying, when we’re whole people in whole communities.

Dr. Dobson: -and you can’t be that if you’re isolated from the rest of the world.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Exactly.

Dr. Dobson: -and everything comes from one person.

Dr. Sharon Hart-May: Exactly right.

Dr. Dobson: It just doesn’t work.