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NORTHWEST ARCTIC SUBSISTENCE RAC MEETING 4/9/2019 1

NORHTWEST ARCTIC RAC MEETING

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NORTHWEST ARCTIC FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME I

Northwest Arctic Borough Assembly Room

Kotzebue, Alaska April 9, 2019

9:00 a.m

COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:

Michael Kramer, Chairman Barbara Atoruk Louie Commack Hannah Loon Enoch Mitchell Beverly Moto Tristen Pattee Replogle Swan Silvano Viveiros

Regional Council Coordinator, Zach Stevenson

Recorded and transcribed by:

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Kotzebue, Alaska - 4/9/2019) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Good morning 8 everybody. My name is Mike Kramer. I'm currently 9 acting as the Chair. I'd like to get this meeting

10 started. I make the motion to start the meeting, can 11 anybody second it. 12 13 MS. ATORUK: I second it. 14 15 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Seconded by 16 Barbara. All in favor say aye. 17 18 IN UNISON: Aye. 19 20 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: I guess we're 21 starting this meeting, thank you. 22 23 I might sound kind of different, 24 probably about a week ago, a week and a half ago I had 25 surgery on my throat so my voice might be coming and 26 going, so if you guys could just bear with me. 27 28 First of all, I'd like to go ahead and 29 have a moment of silence. 30 31 (Moment of Silence) 32 33 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Taikuu. Madame 34 Secretary, can we have a roll call. 35 36 MS. LOON: Tristen Pattee. 37 38 MR. PATTEE: Here. 39 40 MS. LOON: Beverly Moto. 41 42 MS. MOTO: Yes. 43 44 MS. LOON: Hannah Loon, present. 45 46 Michael Kramer. 47 48 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Here. 49 50






1 MS. LOON: Raymond Lee, Jr. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MS. LOON: Replogle Swan. 6 7 (No comment) 8 9 MS. LOON: Louie Commack, Jr.

10 11 MR. COMMACK: Here. 12 13 MS. LOON: Silvano Viveiros, Sr. 14 15 MR. VIVEIROS: Here. 16 17 MS. LOON: Enoch Mitchell. 18 19 (No comment) 20 21 MS. LOON: Barbara Atoruk. 22 23 MS. ATORUK: Here. And on behalf of 24 Replogle, I think he's on an excused. He's excused from 25 this meeting this morning and tomorrow. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 MS. LOON: (In Native) 30 31 MS. ATORUK: Replogle Swan, Sr., from 32 Kivalina is excused. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay, proceeding 37 to No. 4, review and adopt the agenda. 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 40 41 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Ah, correction, 42 welcome and introduction. 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: Did we also want to 45 invite those listening or on the tele -- participating 46 by teleconference or listening on the radio to 47 introduce. 48 49 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. We'll go 50






1 ahead and introduction to everybody out here, and also 2 on the phone, wherever you guys want to start. 3 4 MS. MAAS: All right. Well, I'm Lisa 5 Maas and I'm a wildlife biologist with the Office of 6 Subsistence Management. 7 8 MR. FRONSTIN: Raime Fronstin, wildlife 9 biologist, Park Service in Kotzebue.

10 11 MS. PETRIVELLI: Pat Petrivelli, the 12 subsistence anthropologist for the Bureau of Indian 13 Affairs out of Anchorage. 14 15 MS. GEORGETTE: Good morning. I'm 16 Susan Georgette. I'm the Refuge Manager for Selawik 17 National Wildlife Refuge, Fish and Wildlife Service in 18 Kotzebue. 19 20 MR. GREGG: Good morning. My name is 21 Charlie Gregg and I'm with Northwest Arctic Borough 22 Planning Department. 23 24 MR. SCANLON: Good morning. My name is 25 Brendan Scanlon. I am the area fishery biologist for 26 Northwest and North Slope for the Department of Fish 27 and Game out of Fairbanks. 28 29 MS. SWEENEY: Good morning. I'm 30 Brittany Sweeney. I work here in Kotzebue for the 31 Selawik Wildlife Refuge, Fish and Wildlife Service, and 32 I'm the outreach specialist. 33 34 MS. LUKIN: (In Inupiaq) Maija Lukin, 35 Park Service Superintendent, Kotzebue. 36 37 TROOPER LEATH: Good morning. My name 38 is Rex Leath, I'm a captain with the Alaska Wildlife 39 Troopers, I supervise the northern half of the state of 40 Alaska. 41 42 TROOPER BJORK: Good morning. Scott 43 Bjork, Alaska Wildlife Troopers, Kotzebue. 44 45 MR. SCHAEFFER: Good morning. I'm 46 Damon Schaeffer with NANA Regional Corporation and I 47 work in the Lands Department. 48 49 MR. SPARKS: Good morning everybody. 50






1 Tom Sparks, Bureau of Land Management out of Nome. 2 3 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: Good morning. Joe 4 Dollemolle, I'm the District Ranger for the National 5 Park Service in Kotzebue. 6 7 MR. HANSEN: Good morning. This is 8 Alex Hansen, Alaska Department of Fish and Game here in 9 Kotzebue over the Western Arctic Herd.

10 11 OFFICER GUSSE: Good morning. Walker 12 Gusse with the Bureau of Land Management, Ranger/pilot 13 out of Anchorage. 14 15 MR. GREGG: Good morning. Kirk Gregg 16 with NANA Regional Lands Department. 17 18 MS. BACKENSTO: Good morning. Stacia 19 Backensto with the National Park Service, wildlife 20 biologist in Fairbanks. 21 22 MS. KENNER: Good morning. Pippa 23 Kenner, anthropologist with the Office of Subsistence 24 Management in Anchorage. 25 26 MR. PAPPAS: George Pappas, Office of 27 Subsistence Management. I'm the State subsistence 28 liaison for the Federal Subsistence Management Program. 29 I sit on the Board of Fish and Board of Game as a 30 Federal advisor. And I work at OSM in Anchorage. 31 32 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 33 Good morning everyone. My name is Zach Stevenson. I'm 34 the subsistence Council coordinator for the Northwest 35 Arctic Subsistence Regional Advisory Council. 36 37 Thank you. 38 39 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Is there anybody 40 else how about out there on the phones, is there any 41 people that called in who would like to acknowledge 42 themselves. 43 44 MR. JOLY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. 45 This is Kyle Joly with the National Park Service. 46 47 MR. HILDRETH: Good morning, Mr. 48 Chairman. This is Derek Hildreth, I'm the permit 49 specialist for OSM. 50






1 MR. SHARP: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. 2 This is Dan Sharp with Bureau of Land Management in 3 Anchorage. 4 5 MR. BURCH: Good morning. This is Mark 6 Burch with the Department of Fish and Game. 7 8 MR. GONZALES: Good morning. This is 9 Daniel Gonzales with the Division of Subsistence.

10 11 MS. OKADA: Good morning. This is 12 Marcy Okada with the National Park Service, Gates of 13 the Arctic National Park and Preserve. 14 15 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Is there anyone 16 else. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: If there isn't, 21 I'd like to go ahead and have the Board members go 22 ahead and introduce themselves. 23 24 MR. PATTEE: Good morning. My name is 25 Tristen Pattee. My Inupiaq name is (In Inupiaq). I'm 26 here representing my home and village of Ambler. 27 28 MS. MOTO: Good morning. This is 29 Beverly Moto, I'm from Deering. 30 31 MR. COMMACK: Good morning. I'm Louie 32 Commack representing Ambler. 33 34 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Mike Kramer 35 representing Kotzebue. 36 37 MS. ATORUK: Barbara Atoruk 38 representing Kiana. Good morning. 39 40 MS. LOON: Hannah Paniyayluk Loon 41 representing Selawik but I live in Kotzebue. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 MR. VIVEIROS: Good morning. Silvano 46 Viveiros. I live here in Kotzebue. I've grown up 47 here, and been here for 44 years, next week will be 45. 48 The seven of my last 10 years of here in Kotzebue, 49 seven of the 10 I've been a fire chief, and that's one 50






1 of my biggest accomplishments, I'm pretty proud of it. 2 I met a lot of nice people. Enjoy subsistence 3 lifestyle and look forward to seeing you guys more. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Thank you, 8 Silvano. Now, we'll go ahead and go into review and 9 adopt the agenda, No. 5.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 12 13 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 14 15 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 16 wanted to point out one minor modification to the 17 agenda. On the draft agenda in the meeting book on 18 Page 2, Item 10, Old Business, A, update on emergency 19 wildlife special action WSA18-04, I'd like to request 20 that we strike that from the agenda, that item was 21 covered at our fall meeting, fall 2018 meeting. 22 23 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 24 25 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. 26 27 MS. ATORUK: Excuse me, Zach, is that 28 10A on Old Business? 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 31 That's correct, Barbara. Item 10A at the top of Page 2 32 in the meeting book, I'm requesting that we strike Item 33 10A update on emergency wildlife special action WSA18- 34 04, my justification that we've already addressed that 35 item at our fall meeting. 36 37 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 38 39 MR. COMMACK: Mr. Chair. 40 41 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 42 43 MR. COMMACK: Yeah, this is Louie 44 Commack, Ambler. I would like to make a motion that we 45 move up BLM to new business. 46 47 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: There is a motion 48 on the floor, do I hear a second. 49 50






1 MS. ATORUK: Could you specify, please, 2 Louie, which, under BLM, are you talking about -- which 3 number are you talking about, are you talking about the 4 Ambler Road EIS? 5 6 MR. COMMACK: 4 and 5 which is Ambler 7 Road environmental impact statement, which is the EIS 8 and the Ambler Road EIS, Section .810 analysis, the 9 whole thing on the BLM report.

10 11 MS. ATORUK: Thank you. 12 13 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 14 15 MR. COMMACK: Unless..... 16 17 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 18 19 MR. COMMACK: Yeah. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. And 22 addressing the question from Barbara, Louie do I 23 understand you correctly that under BLM, because we 24 have, as I understand it, two topics that BLM would be 25 addressing today, both the Bering Sea Western Interior 26 or BSWI draft resource management plan, environmental 27 impact statement, and also the Ambler Road EIS, and 28 Section .810 analysis, that you are asking for the BLM 29 presentation specifically, the Ambler Road EIS, Section 30 .810 analysis to be added -- to be moved to new 31 business; is that correct 32 33 MR. COMMACK: Yes. 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Does that answer your 36 -- through the Chair, does that answer your question, 37 Barbara. 38 39 MS. ATORUK: Yes, it does. 40 41 42 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 43 44 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. Going back 45 to the motion, do I hear a second. 46 47 MS. ATORUK: I second. 48 49 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Barbara seconded. 50






1 Those all in favor say aye. 2 3 IN UNISON: Aye. 4 5 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay, that motion 6 is carried. 7 8 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 9

10 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead -- is 11 there any questions. 12 13 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 14 I've also had a request to add the Alaska Department of 15 Fish and Game, Board of Game proposals to be added 16 under new business as well with approval from the 17 Council. 18 19 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 21 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Do we have a 22 motion on that. 23 24 MR. COMMACK: I second that. 25 26 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay, Louie 27 seconded. Those all in favor please say aye. 28 29 IN UNISON: Aye. 30 31 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay, is there 32 any other requests or do we have a-- is the agenda 33 approved as is. 34 35 (No comments) 36 37 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Any other changes 38 members would like to make. 39 40 MR. VIVEIROS: I have a question. 41 42 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 43 Pookie. 44 45 MR. VIVEIROS: Under this agenda, there 46 isn't a section where like the public can comment. Can 47 we -- is there a reason why? 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 50






1 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 4 That's a great -- that's a great question, Pookie (ph), 5 thank you. 6 7 We have on Page 1 of the agenda under 8 Item No. 9, under public and tribal comments on non- 9 agenda items. We do that every morning for the purpose

10 of inviting the public and encouraging the public to 11 participate. And if I may, through the Chair, for 12 those that do choose or would like to choose, either 13 during that time to share their comments or other times 14 during the meeting, we just ask that you fill out one 15 of these green cards for those that are here in the 16 room. They're up at that table, up at the front. And 17 what this card does, is it helps us track who shares 18 comments, so that when we take our notes and write up 19 minutes from the meeting we can make sure that we're 20 not missing anybody who shared important information. 21 22 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 24 MS. ATORUK: Mr. Chair. 25 26 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 27 Barbara. 28 29 MS. ATORUK: I'd like to -- I have a 30 question here that just went by, and I think on that 31 motion that just happened for what Zach did, he was 32 just explaining to us what needed to happen, and Louie 33 seconded, Louie should have said I so move and somebody 34 else, one of the Council members to second. Zach is 35 our coordinator, and a Council member should have moved 36 on that instead of Zach doing the motion. 37 38 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 39 40 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 41 42 MS. ATORUK: We need to reconsider. 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: We could -- through the 45 Chair. Barbara you are correct, you are correct, we 46 can reconsider, and for point of clarification, in the 47 past we have found that a strict adherence strictly 48 following Roberts Rules has caused some challenges and 49 what we have done in the past is to be a little bit 50






1 more flexible with that when it comes to making 2 decisions, that we have a clear justification why is a 3 decision being made and that a motion is being taken to 4 show justification and a vote. But you're absolutely 5 right, that can be reconsidered in adherence with 6 Roberts Rules. 7 8 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 9

10 MS. ATORUK: But if that's what you're 11 comfortable about, I am old school so it can be okay 12 too. 13 14 MS. LOON: I have a question, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 17 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 18 19 MS. LOON: Zach, can you please specify 20 there is a new proposal by Alaska Board of Game and you 21 need to designate a number or something like that to go 22 along with that, please. 23 24 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 25 26 MR. STEVENSON: Taikuu, Hannah. Under 27 new business would the Council like to add the Board of 28 Game proposals under -- bear with me just a moment here 29 -- yeah, I think we could add that under 11G, so after 30 review of statewide finfish fishery proposals of 31 interest to the Council, again that would be Item 11F, 32 make that Item 11H, because, again, we've added that 33 Ambler Road issue so that would be 11H. 34 35 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 36 37 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Any other 38 changes. 39 40 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 41 42 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 43 44 MS. LOON: I would like to add 45 selection of village people interested in engaging on 46 the resource regional advisory committee and perhaps 47 the -- I would like to request that the committee alone 48 meet and discuss it. There are requirements on 49 background checks that we are not getting enough 50






1 engagement from the villages because of these. Because 2 I know over time that some of these misdemeanors are -- 3 they better themselves. 4 5 Thank you very much. 6 7 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Where did you 8 want to add that to. 9

10 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 11 12 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 15 Taikuu, Hannah. Through the Chair. Would you like to 16 add that as Item 11I 17 18 MS. LOON: 11I. 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 22 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Any more changes. 23 24 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 25 26 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 27 28 MS. LOON: I would also like to add 29 another item, over time -- I know we are from the 30 villages, the Regional Advisory committee, are very 31 traditional, and the Regional Advisory committee must 32 look into being compensated for honorary because that 33 is a practice in our local councils and every 34 organizational meeting. And the Federal Subsistence 35 Board need to -- we need to work together to address 36 that. We come here, leaving our children, our home, 37 our fishing and so we need to get together, the 38 committee, the RAC committee need to come together and 39 discuss that, not for very long time. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 44 45 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. So I 46 understand that's an item you wanted to add to the 47 agenda? 48 49 MS. LOON: Yes, Sir. 50






1 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. Go ahead, 2 Zach. 3 4 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 5 understand that we would be then adding the discussion 6 of per diem as Item 11 -- new business, Item 11J, per 7 diem. 8 9 MS. LOON: Yes.

10 11 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. Is there 12 any other changes to the agenda, or additions, add-ons. 13 14 15 (No comments) 16 17 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Hearing none, I 18 need a motion to approve the agenda. 19 20 MS. LOON: I make a motion to approve 21 the agenda with the additions added into it. 22 23 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. There's a 24 motion on the floor, do I have a second. 25 26 MR. COMMACK: Second. 27 28 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Seconded by 29 Louie. Those all in favor say aye. 30 31 IN UNISON: Aye. 32 33 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Opposed, say nay. 34 35 (No opposing votes) 36 37 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Hearing none, 38 it's approved. 39 40 Okay, next business is 6, election of 41 officers. We'll go ahead and start with the Secretary. 42 I need some nominations. 43 44 MR. COMMACK: Mr. Chair. 45 46 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Go ahead. 47 48 MR. COMMACK: I nominate you, Mike. 49 50






1 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Nominate me 2 for..... 3 4 MR. COMMACK: Chair. 5 6 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Chair. 7 8 MR. COMMACK: Or Secretary or Chairman. 9

10 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Yeah, we're going 11 for Secretary right now. 12 13 MR. COMMACK: Oh, sorry. 14 15 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: That's okay. 16 17 (Pause) 18 19 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: I nominate 20 Barbara Atoruk. 21 22 MR. COMMACK: Second. 23 24 MS. LOON: I second it. 25 26 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Is it seconded, 27 is there anybody else nominated. 28 29 30 (No comments) 31 32 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Hearing none, 33 okay, we'll go to the Vice Chair, any nominations. 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Discussion. 36 37 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Discussion. 38 39 (No comments) 40 41 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Hearing none, is 42 there a motion to approve the election for Secretary. 43 44 MS. LOON: I make a motion for 45 unanimous consent for Barbara Armstrong as Secretary. 46 47 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. 48 49 MS. LOON: Barbara Atoruk, sorry Um. 50






1 (Laughter) 2 3 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. I have a 4 second. All those in favor in closing Secretary 5 elections say aye. 6 7 IN UNISON: Aye. 8 9 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. Now, we're

10 going to Vice Chair. Any nominations. 11 12 MS. ATORUK: Mr. Chair. I nominate 13 Louie Commack. 14 15 MS. LOON: I second it. 16 17 MS. ATORUK: And I would also like to 18 ask for unanimous consent, please. 19 20 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Is there any 21 other nominations for Vice Chair. 22 23 (No comments) 24 25 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Hearing none, 26 there's a motion on the floor, all those in favor say 27 aye. 28 29 IN UNISON: Aye. 30 31 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Okay. We're 32 going to Chairman, any nominations. 33 34 MR. COMMACK: Mr. Chair. I nominate 35 you, Mike. 36 37 MS. ATORUK: I second it. 38 39 MR. COMMACK: And ask for unanimous 40 consent. 41 42 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Any other 43 nominations. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Any questions. 48 49 (No comments) 50






1 ACTING CHAIR KRAMER: Those all in 2 favor for nominating me as Chairman please say aye. 3 4 IN UNISON: Aye. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Closing all 7 nominations. We have currently one person for each 8 Board member, officers, Secretary is Barbara Atoruk, 9 Vice Chair is Louie Commack, Chairman is Mike Kramer.

10 11 I'd like to thank all of you guys. 12 13 Okay, that selection is all done. 14 15 Okay. We'll go to No. 7 review and 16 approve previous meeting minutes. 17 18 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 21 22 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 Through the Chair. The previous meeting minutes are 24 found on Page 5 of your meeting books. These were a 25 summary of the October 24th, 2018 Northwest Arctic 26 Subsistence Regional Advisory Council meeting that we 27 had here in Kotzebue. This is the opportunity for the 28 Council or members of the public to request any 29 clarifications or changes or corrections to the draft 30 minutes. 31 32 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 33 34 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do I have a motion to 35 approve the previous agenda meeting [sic]. 36 37 Yeah, go ahead. 38 39 MS. GEORGETTE: Thank you. This is 40 Susan Georgette. I noticed on Page 5, so the bottom of 41 the first page, where it says the toll free 42 teleconference participants, including Tonya Ballot, 43 administrator, Native Village of Selawik, it says 44 Selawik NWR, but she's with the Native Village of 45 Selawik. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you. We'll 50






1 note those changes. 2 3 Do you guys need a few more minutes to 4 review the previous meeting minutes. 5 6 (Council nods affirmatively) 7 8 (Pause) 9

10 MS. ATORUK: I make a motion to 11 approve. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. I have a 14 motion by Barbara, is there a second. 15 16 MR. COMMACK: I second. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Louie Commack 19 seconded. All those in favor of approving the previous 20 meeting minutes say aye. 21 22 IN UNISON: Aye. 23 24 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Unanimous. Okay, 25 moving on to 8, reports. 26 27 Council member reports. We'll go ahead 28 and start on my right. Silvano, these are reports like 29 what you did all year, what kind of successful hunting 30 and fishing and trapping, you know, basically how your 31 year went with your family out subsistence hunting, 32 kind of give like a little report on that. 33 34 Okay, we'll start with you. 35 36 MR. VIVEIROS: So last spring we -- 37 I've been --last spring was thefirst time we hadto go-- 38 we had to go a long ways, I ended up 13 miles from 39 Deering from here by boat, and I had a lot of gas. I 40 had like 70 gallons of gas I left with and it was real 41 nice out. We ended up down by Shamishu Island and 42 Buckland Bay area. It was a successful hunt. We put 43 two oogruks in the boat. And on our way back the 44 weather started getting crappy and it wasn't too bad 45 when we started to leave, but I had a radio and I was 46 checking the weather, you know, because that was the 47 first time we had to go that far. So with all our gear 48 and all the gas, I burned 20 gallons getting down 49 there, which left me with 50 gallons to come back and I 50






1 almost ran out. I would have run out if I didn't call 2 search and rescue, so we had to call them before we 3 reached Rileyr (indiscernible) and they launched their 4 boat to bring us, you know, 10 more gallons of gas. 5 But the current was, it wasn't so much the waves, it 6 was the current that was really aggressive. And we 7 burned all that gas coming back. 8 9 But, yeah, we've been oogruk hunting.

10 11 Last spring went brandt hunting and 12 goose hunting and stuff. 13 14 The fall we went caribou hunting. We 15 didn't catch anything. I guess we went at the wrong 16 time. 17 18 And this winter, one of my buddies 19 brought over a couple caribous, I didn't get to go but 20 while we were at camp with -- during the spring with 21 our oogruks over there we -- you know, we set a little 22 net and catch whitefish and dry them at the same time 23 as the oogruk drying. 24 25 Other than that that's pretty much my 26 year in a nutshell. 27 28 There's probably a lot more that I 29 forgot but I wasn't prepared for that. 30 31 Thanks, Mike. 32 33 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hannah. 34 35 MS. LOON: Taikuu, good morning. Last 36 fall in Selawik we didn't -- my daughter didn't harvest 37 although they'd gone out looking, there weren't any 38 caribou available in Selawik until later on around 39 October. 40 41 The fishing was good, the white (In 42 Inupiaq) were good, and (In Inupiaq) were good. 43 44 Blueberries were good. And (In 45 Inupiaq) 46 47 Right now it's spring time and people 48 are out getting sheefish. I know that for sure that 49 Noorvik, Kiana and Ambler -- Noorvik, Kiana and Selawik 50






1 were experiencing the lack of caribou in those 2 communities and there were caribou elsewhere. 3 4 Thank you. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Barbara. 7 8 MS. ATORUK: (In Inupiaq) 9

10 But it's good to be here on this side 11 of the chair here after coordinating for over almost 30 12 years for the State and the Federal people. And I am 13 in Kiana right now. 14 15 For two years in Kiana we haven't -- 16 the migrating caribou didn't go through Kiana for the 17 last two years. In fact last fall we just -- I was 18 just given one caribou by a young boy who it was his 19 first harvest, was our grandson, and we really 20 appreciated that. And a lot of young hunters in Kiana 21 do that. They go around asking the elders to go out 22 and hunt for them, and we appreciate that. And 23 although a lot of hunters do go out a lot, they sit out 24 there a lot in the cold winds with their boats and 25 stuff, they haven't been harvesting caribou around 26 Kiana for two years. 27 28 Fishing is good. 29 30 Sheefish is good. 31 32 Salmon are good. 33 34 Whitefish are good. 35 36 Everything that they get they share, 37 they bring a lot of their catch to my house and they 38 help me surviving in Kiana and with the other elders 39 too that are there in Kiana, so I really appreciate it. 40 41 I appreciate being here and plan to 42 enjoy it. 43 44 Thank you. Good morning. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Louie. 47 48 MR. COMMACK: Okay, thank you. 49 Reporting from the fall hunt, there was hardly any 50






1 caribou through Ambler. 2 3 But there was a lot of fish. People 4 went out and did a lot of fishing. Whitefish, salmon, 5 burbot. 6 7 The latest report we've got is there's 8 some caribou across Ambler as of last week or two weeks 9 ago, and across Shungnak and Kobuk. So people are out

10 there hunting doing the best they can. 11 12 So with that thank you very much. 13 14 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Ms. Moto. 15 16 MS. MOTO: Thank you. The caribou in 17 Deering was kind of successful this year even we had 18 not much snow and no ice in front of Deering the 19 majority of the year. 20 21 But otherwise the fishing was good. 22 Everybody was successful. Not much for Tomcodding 23 because there is no snow to go over the hill. 24 25 Otherwise everyone seemed happy with 26 their hunting and fishing this year. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Tristen. 31 32 MR. PATTEE: Thank you, Chair. Good 33 morning everyone. I have notes from a few different 34 people from Ambler and Shungnak and so I'll just kind 35 of go over the notes and mention what they said. 36 37 A resident from Ambler, they are 38 concerned about the caribou. They have been showing up 39 later than prior years. They're concerned also with 40 the fact that because they're showing up late, the 41 season closes and they basically become criminals while 42 they're hunting this caribou after the season closes 43 and, you know, they need the meat so they're going to 44 continue to hunt so they're just -- they're hoping for 45 a little leniency on the law when they're hunting their 46 meat there. 47 48 They are concerned about the wolves. 49 I've been getting a lot of reports that a lot of the 50






1 wolves are chasing the caribou quite a bit and they're 2 just concerned that they're changing the migration 3 pattern and so they're hoping for some predator 4 control. 5 6 People have been going much longer 7 distances to get their meat now. It's been changing 8 throughout the years and that's putting quite a burden 9 on them because of the cost of fuel, especially in

10 Ambler where it's, you know, 11 or $12 a gallon so the 11 economy's not very great over there so it's hard for 12 them to actually have the income to go and do their 13 subsistence hunting. 14 15 Another resident, again, they had to 16 wait for caribou for quite a bit. They're not there 17 when they expected, and the same thing, when they are 18 late, the season closes and then they finally come and 19 so some of the people, of course, they know the law so 20 they can't hunt and they can't get their subsistence 21 foods. And so they were asking if, when the caribou 22 arrive, there could be some type of emergency open 23 season on the caribou so they can gather their meat. 24 25 They made a comment that the berries 26 and sheefish are the same so it's doing very well. 27 28 A resident in Shungnak, the only thing 29 that they can think of right now is they're concerned 30 about when the caribou get in the water on the north 31 side of the river people start to chase them and shoot 32 at them before they're actually crossing the river and 33 chasing them back north, you know. And so it kind of 34 takes away the chance for other hunters to actually get 35 their meat as they cross because there's a certain 36 technique that they use when they're hunting in the 37 river. 38 39 Okay. 40 41 And another Shungnak resident, he is 42 very concerned about predator control as well. He 43 thinks that the wolves are rerouting all their caribou 44 and also the bears. He made a comment that he noticed 45 that the population has went up, well, he says big 46 time, but he says it went up quite a bit and so it's 47 affecting their caribou. 48 49 He also made a comment that airplanes 50






1 are flying too low and the helicopters are also flying 2 too low near the hot springs. 3 4 Another resident of Ambler. They are 5 making the comment that the river is very congested. 6 Once the migration, the expected migration is coming 7 through, they're getting a lot of -- a lot of boats, I 8 mean it's too the point where it's getting dangerous 9 and where they're not taking special precautions when

10 they're shooting their rifle and it's very concerning 11 to the residents, especially my home in Ambler where 12 everybody's kind of -- you know, they have their own 13 technique and they know when they need to shoot and 14 actually go after the caribou. 15 16 My experience. Last fall I didn't see 17 any caribou. We got a lot of moose. That was 18 basically what filled up our freezer. Some of the 19 sport hunters, they would come in and float down to the 20 Ambler River and they'd end up in Ambler and a lot of 21 their meat, actually, they would donate it to me and 22 then I would distribute it throughout the community 23 just so, you know, so they don't have to travel with 24 two whole moose and so they were very happy to actually 25 share that with the community and help out the 26 residents of Ambler, seeing that it's very expensive to 27 actually go out and hunt these animals for subsistence 28 so that was a very big help for a lot of residents in 29 Ambler to be able to distribute that meat to them. 30 31 And that's it. 32 33 Thank you. 34 35 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, thank you, 36 Tristen. I'm at the Chair's report. 37 38 I'd like to welcome everybody here. We 39 have some new members, we have Pookie, we have Tristen, 40 the other ones that aren't here. 41 42 Me, acting Chair, you know, I've done 43 this maybe once or twice so give me a little break, I'm 44 kind of getting used to this now, I'm going to have to. 45 46 I'd have to say that most of my, you 47 know, spring, I didn't get to go oogruk hunting, I was 48 working so a friend of mine got one for me. I didn't 49 really get to go goose hunting either because I had to 50






1 leave for a week worth of training in Seattle and 2 Anchorage. 3 4 Other than that, you know, putting 5 sheefish away, herring. 6 7 Fall time I went out a lot of times 8 looking for caribou. There was a lot of craziness, you 9 know, with that -- just like he said, that people were

10 bum rushing them, we had other people bum rush the 11 caribou when they're still two miles away, take off 12 running at them. Caribou have been migrating pretty 13 slow. I've heard a lot of reports in Ambler, Kobuk, 14 you know, Kiana area that there's not very much passing 15 through. That's a question we'll be asking Fish and 16 Wildlife pretty soon, the majority of their migration 17 route. 18 19 You know, moose, I got me an RM880, I 20 only saw two young bulls three days before hunting 21 season and that's ridiculous because after that I 22 didn't see any more. So I turned in my moose harvest 23 ticket when I was supposed to, I didn't harvest a 24 moose. 25 26 I did harvest two caribou this winter. 27 I had to go all the way down to Callahan, there's quite 28 a few down there, there's several thousand. It didn't 29 take long for us to get a couple. 30 31 I didn't get to go trapping either this 32 winter, up the Kobuk, you know, a lot of people gave me 33 reports that there was a lot of open water. It's been 34 a crazy, crazy warm winter here. We had blizzard after 35 blizzard for the majority of the winter, and now we're 36 starting to get our springtime weather. You know, I 37 hope this didn't play havoc on a lot of our wildlife 38 and our subsistence resources. I'm kind of hoping that 39 the sheep are, you know, survived well this winter. I 40 know it was a pretty mild winter for them. 41 42 Other than that, that's all I have. 43 44 Thank you. 45 46 MR. VIVEIROS: Mr. Chair. 47 48 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 49 50






1 MR. VIVEIROS: I have an appointment. 2 I'll be stepping out for a couple minutes, I'll be 3 right back. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, you're excused. 6 7 (Pause) 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, how about we

10 have a five minute recess. 11 12 (Off record) 13 14 (On record) 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Let's go ahead and 17 continue on with reports. Coordinator report, Zach. 18 19 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 First I wanted to briefly welcome all of those who've 21 joined us, many traveling far away from their families, 22 including our honored Council members, as well as our 23 new members. I've been really happy to see that we've 24 got, as usual, a very qualified and knowledgeable group 25 of Council members joining us. 26 27 Rep Swan, who's on the teleconference, 28 had won the Alaska Federation of Natives Hunter of the 29 Year Award and has also been very involved in his 30 community with research and rescue and also as a 31 whaling captain. 32 33 Silvano, who had to step out for a 34 moment to go to the clinic, has a long history of 35 working for the public, both for his involvement as the 36 former Search and Rescue coordinator, and more recently 37 as a local business owner. 38 39 Barbara Atoruk, having much experience 40 on subsistence issues and also having previously worked 41 with the Office of Subsistence Management. 42 43 And, of course, Tristen Pattee, a 44 hunter himself, local business owner, and worker at Red 45 Dog. 46 47 So we're lucky to have some wonderful 48 new, and experienced Council members. 49 50






1 I also wanted to briefly point out, and 2 I know that our friends at the Selawik Refuge will 3 speak more about this when they give their update, I 4 wanted to thank all of our local hunters, sport users 5 and State and Federal partners that had attended the 6 December 2018 Western Arctic Caribou Herd Working Group 7 meeting in Anchorage. And I look forward to hearing 8 that update from our friends at the Selawik Refuge. 9

10 I also wanted to briefly mention that I 11 had the privilege of yesterday of pretending -- or 12 attending the Northwest Arctic Conservation Law 13 Enforcement Working Group meeting, and we'll have a 14 brief update on that later today from some of our 15 partners who were helping to facilitate that meeting 16 yesterday. 17 18 That concludes my update. 19 20 And I also wanted to, again, thank 21 those who have joined us today. 22 23 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. We are going 26 to No. 9, public and tribal comment on non-agenda items 27 available each morning and the table is open, even out 28 there in radioland. Also I'd like to thank KOTZ for 29 airing this meeting. 30 31 Okay, is there any public comments or 32 tribal comments. 33 34 Go ahead, Zach. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Again, for those who 37 are in the auditorium today, if you do have comments 38 that you'd like to share, we'd just ask that you please 39 fill out one of these brief comment cards that are used 40 to help us keep track of who's sharing important 41 comments. 42 43 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do we have any public 46 or tribal comments. 47 48 49 (No comments) 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, hearing none, 2 we'll go ahead and go to No. 10, old business. Seeing 3 no old business we're going to go ahead and go to No. 4 11, new business, Item A will be BLM, which used to be 5 Item 12B. 6 7 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 12 am communicating right now with Tina McMaster-Goring 13 with BLM, and I'd like to step out for just a moment to 14 give her a call and remind them that they are now up on 15 the agenda, if I may. 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, we'll 18 take a few minute recess while he's getting that 19 straightened out. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 22 23 MR. PAPPAS: Mr. Chair. This would be 24 a good time to offer -- maybe clearly offer to the 25 folks on line, on the telephone, if they have any 26 tribal or public comments to start off the meeting, 27 they may have missed that opportunity. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Do we have any 32 comments out there in teleconference land. Is there 33 anybody out there. 34 35 (No comments) 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Public comments. 38 Tribal comments. 39 40 (No comments) 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hello, anybody out 43 there. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, okay, 48 we'll continue at 11A here in a few minutes when Zach 49 returns. 50






1 (Pause) 2 3 MS. ATORUK: Mr. Chair. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Barbara. 6 7 MS. ATORUK: I have a question. So 8 we're moving four and five, from agency reports, or 9 BLM, over here to new business under A, is that what

10 we're doing because I had them down as G. So that's 11 where you're moving those two, over here, to A, up here 12 on new business? 13 14 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: As far as I know we 15 wanted to move it to A to new business. 16 17 MS. ATORUK: Okay. Okay. I just put 18 it down as G, so that clarifies it, thank you. 19 20 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 23 Hannah. 24 25 MS. LOON: I would like to translate it 26 -- I would like to inform the tribal governments to -- 27 in Inupiaq to invite them to call in to toll free, and 28 I will ask you to give out the toll free number after I 29 say it. 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 (In Inupiaq) 34 35 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you, Hannah. 36 37 Okay, continuing on with new business, 38 that'll be BLM, Section 11D was moved up to 11A, BLM. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: 12D. 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: 12D, correction. 12D 43 was moved to 11A. 44 45 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 50






1 And, again, to clarify per the Council's -- per Mr. 2 Commack's request, agency reports, Item 12D, Bureau of 3 Land Management has been moved to item 11, new 4 business, first item of new business 11A. And we have 5 Tina McMaster-Goring of the BLM -- is Tina on the 6 teleconference now to share her presentation. 7 8 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 9

10 (No comments) 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: I'm sorry, I had the 15 telephone on mute, again, the question, Tina McMaster- 16 Goring with BLM, are you on the teleconference. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 25 I'm not hearing..... 26 27 MR. SUMMERS: This is Clarence Summer, 28 National Park Service. Could you repeat, thank you. 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 31 Thank you, Clarence. This is Zach Stevenson with OSM. 32 Again, I'm asking the question, is Tina McMaster-Goring 33 on the telephone, on the teleconference line now from 34 BLM to share her presentation. 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 41 I'll ask again, is Tina McMaster-Goring from BLM on the 42 teleconference. 43 44 MS. OKADA: Hi, Zach. This is Marcy 45 Okada with the National Park Service. And Tina might 46 be in Ambler Road meetings right now. I can send on 47 her cell phone to you via text message. 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Marcy, this is Zach. I 4 am communicating with Tina right now and I just 5 received a message from her stating that she'll have to 6 do her presentation at 11:00 a.m., so I just wanted to 7 notify the Chair that that is the response I've 8 received from Tina. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. I guess the BLM 11 portion of this will be moved again. 12 13 Okay, Item B, wildlife closure review 14 WCR18-19, Unit 23 southwest muskox. 15 16 MS. MAAS: All right, thank you, Mr. 17 Chair. And before I present the actual closure review 18 we have an update on the closure policy. 19 20 (Pause) 21 22 MS. MAAS: Okay. My understanding was 23 the LT was supposed to read it but I have it here so I 24 will read it. 25 26 And, again, this is something I'm 27 required to read by our office but after I read it, if 28 there's any questions, then I can hopefully explain it 29 and clarify it more. 30 31 So upon further review of this closure 32 policy The Office of Subsistence Management Staff 33 believed additional clarification was needed prompting 34 -- oh, I'm sorry, let me start over. 35 36 At the February 2018 Federal 37 Subsistence Board work session, OSM Staff recommended 38 revisions to the Federal Subsistence Board's closure 39 policy in order to more accurately track and implement 40 existing wildlife and fisheries closures in future 41 years. 42 43 As a result, the Board approved changes 44 to the policy to allow for review of half of all 45 closure reviews on a staggered four year cycle with the 46 other half being reviewed the following years. 47 48 Upon further review of this closure 49 policy OSM Staff believed additional clarification was 50






1 needed prompting discussion with the Department of 2 Interior Solicitor with regard to Federal Subsistence 3 Board action on closure reviews. The Solicitor and OSM 4 Staff clarified that the FSB closure policy intends 5 that the Federal Subsistence Board take final action on 6 closure review analysis during its wildlife and 7 fisheries regulatory meetings. Closure review analysis 8 are to be addressed by Subsistence Regional Advisory 9 Councils and the Federal Subsistence Board in the same

10 manner as regulatory proposals, therefore deference to 11 Council recommendations will apply when the Board takes 12 final action on closure reviews. 13 14 Closure reviews are treated the same as 15 regulatory proposals to retain, modify or rescind 16 individual closures. Similarly the InterAgency Staff 17 Committee and the State of Alaska will be asked to 18 submit comments to the Board on closure review 19 analysis. Follow-up proposals from the Councils to 20 request that an existing closure be modified or 21 rescinded will no longer be required as part of the 22 closure review process. 23 24 At this time wildlife Staff are 25 presenting the first round of wildlife closure reviews 26 to the affected Councils seeking their recommendations. 27 28 These closure review analysis will be 29 presented for Board action at the April 2020 wildlife 30 regulatory meeting. Deference will apply to these 31 closure review analysis like any other regulatory 32 proposal. 33 34 Closure reviews will be brought back to 35 the relevant Councils during the fall 2019 meeting 36 cycle so that Council's can revisit their original 37 recommendations and in case there is any relevant, 38 updated biological and/or socio-culture information. 39 40 So, that's the update on the policy. 41 42 I don't know if that -- did that make 43 sense to everyone or are there questions. 44 45 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 50






1 Lisa, you completely lost me and I don't understand 2 that. Can you explain that to me in non-lawyer 3 language. 4 5 MS. MAAS: Yeah. 6 7 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 8 9 MS. MAAS: Yeah, that's just, I guess

10 for the record, I'm required to read. 11 12 So basically in the past we have these 13 closure reviews that per Federal Subsistence Board 14 policy we're required to review every four years to 15 make sure we just don't have a closure in place and 16 then forget about it and it stays closed forever. So 17 in the past these closure reviews would be presented to 18 the Council and that would be it, the Council would 19 decide whether to submit a proposal to change or modify 20 the closure or if they wanted to keep the status quo, 21 then it would end there. So now what's going to happen 22 is it goes past the Council. So instead of submitting 23 a proposal, the Council will make a recommendation on 24 the closure review, and that goes to the Federal 25 Subsistence Board for like final action. So it no 26 longer just stops at the Council, if, you know, no 27 change is warranted -- or the Council recommends no 28 change, it no longer stops here, it continues on to the 29 Board. 30 31 So -- and if the Council does recommend 32 a change, instead of submitting a proposal, you just 33 put that recommendation in the closure review analysis 34 and then we continue that closure review like a 35 proposal. 36 37 So hopefully that clarified the process 38 a little bit more. 39 40 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, that clarified 41 it. I understand. 42 43 So basically what you're saying is you 44 want us to go ahead and make a decision to keep it as 45 is or with modification? 46 47 MS. MAAS: Yeah. And so now after -- 48 since I updated you on that policy I can present the 49 actual closure review. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Do I have a 2 motion on the floor to approve and/or additional 3 modifications to this closure. 4 5 MS. ATORUK: She has to present first. 6 7 MS. MAAS: Yeah, you don't need a 8 motion yet. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Oh, I don't need the 11 motion, I just have to -- because you wanted us to make 12 a decision so I figured..... 13 14 MS. MAAS: Right. But first I'll 15 present you the information about the closure. 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. 18 19 MS. MAAS: Okay. So, again, for the 20 record, my name is Lisa Maas and I'm a wildlife 21 biologist in the Office of Subsistence Management. And 22 I will be presenting a summary of the analysis for 23 wildlife closure review 18-19, which begins on Page 17 24 of your Council meeting book. 25 26 Wildlife Closure Review 18-19 pertains 27 to the closure of muskox hunting in the southwestern 28 portion of Unit 23 to non-Federally-qualified users. 29 The closure area is depicted in Map 1 on Page 17. 30 31 Muskox were reintroduced to the Seward 32 Peninsula in 1970. By 1995 the muskox population had 33 grown sufficiently to warrant unlimited hunt and the 34 Board established a muskox hunt on the Seward Peninsula 35 including Unit 23 south of Kotzebue Sound and west of, 36 and including the Buckland River drainage, hereafter 37 referred to Unit 23 southwest. The hunt area -- the 38 hunt was open to Federally-qualified subsistence users 39 but remained closed to non-Federally-qualified users. 40 Between 1970 and 2007 the Seward Peninsula muskox 41 population increased steadily peaking at 2,688 muskox 42 in 2007. Between 2007 and 2012 the population 43 decreased but has remained stable at about 2,000 muskox 44 since 2012. About 2015 muskox or 10 to 13 percent of 45 the total Seward Peninsula population occupy Unit 23 46 southwest on average. 47 48 Mature bulls protect calves against 49 predators, which increases recruitment and causes 50






1 selective harvest and mature males to substantially 2 impact population growth. Therefore, while ratios of 3 20 mature bulls per 100 cows is considered the minimum, 4 ratios of 50 to 70 mature bulls per 100 cows are 5 preferred. Between 2002 and 2017 mature bull per 100 6 cow ratios in Unit 23 southwest range from 19 to 33 and 7 was only 19 mature bulls per 100 cows in 2017. 8 9 Quotas for individual hunt areas such

10 as Unit 23 southwest are calculated as 10 percent of 11 the estimated number of mature bulls in that area. 12 Between 1995 and 2011 the muskox harvest quota in Unit 13 23 southwest has ranged from six to 18 muskox. Between 14 1995 and 2017 actual harvest has ranged from zero to 18 15 muskox each year. However, since 2008 no muskox have 16 been harvested under Federal regulations. Muskox are 17 more easily accessed on State lands and the quota may 18 be reached before Federally-qualified subsistence users 19 have an opportunity to access Federal lands. 20 21 OSMs recommendation is to maintain the 22 status quo. The harvestable surplus of muskoxen in 23 Unit 23 southwest is very low and cannot sustain any 24 increase in harvest. Continuing the current closure is 25 necessary to conserve muskox while providing for 26 subsistence opportunity and a rural priority. 27 28 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 29 30 I'd be happy to answer any questions. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Is there any 33 questions from the Board. 34 35 MR. PATTEE: I have one. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 38 39 MR. PATTEE: I'm just trying to 40 understand everything here. 41 42 So you mentioned that muskox is 43 harvested on State land and so it's affecting 44 Federally-qualified subsistence users, that's the 45 reason why you want to close it, because we have no 46 jurisdiction over State land? 47 48 MS. MAAS: So this closure has been in 49 place since 1995 and before 1995 there was no open 50






1 season on muskox at all because muskox were just 2 reintroduced to the Seward Peninsula. So by 1995 they 3 opened a season only to Federally-qualified users 4 because there was a limited number of muskox available 5 for harvest. And so since that time there's been -- 6 it's been kind of treated like a closure because it's 7 just never been opened to non-Federally-qualified 8 users. And currently there is a joint Federal/State 9 quota, and so once that quota is reached the muskox

10 hunt is closed for that year. 11 12 And my understanding is a lot of -- the 13 Federally-qualified users -- well, on State -- under 14 State regulations it's just anyone that qualifies for 15 the Tier II hunt, they can go out and harvest on the 16 State lands and meet that quota before people get out 17 on the Federal lands. And I'm not sure the exact 18 geography of that area, but I think the State lands 19 where the muskox are, are just more accessible, that 20 it's easier to get to on State lands versus Federal 21 lands. 22 23 MR. PATTEE: Okay. So is there any 24 potential to work with the State to actually balance 25 the harvest so that the Federally-qualified subsistence 26 users can actually be able to have a chance to hunt 27 these muskox? 28 29 MS. MAAS: That is a good question. 30 The State hunt, again, is a Tier II, it has the same 31 season and the issue with the -- so under the Federal 32 regs, the Federally-qualified users are -- just a 33 moment -- I think just the residents of Unit 23 34 southwest, whereas under State regulations there's a 35 lot of people from Kotzebue that come down and harvest. 36 37 MR. PATTEE: Okay. 38 39 MS. MAAS: So I guess -- I mean I don't 40 know if there's someone from the State that wants to 41 jump in here about how best to work together, maybe 42 Mark Burch could jump in here, but the call for Board 43 of Game proposals is coming up, you know, this cycle. 44 So there's a potential for the Council to submit some 45 sort of proposal to the Board of Game to maybe ask 46 something with the quota, you know. 47 48 MR. PATTEE: I see, okay. And we could 49 do that individual as well, right, submit proposals. 50






1 MS. MAAS: Yep, uh-huh. 2 3 MR. PATTEE: Okay. All right, thank 4 you. 5 6 MR. SWAN: This is Reppe Swan, 7 Kivalina. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead.

10 11 MR. SWAN: (Indiscernible - mic too 12 close to phone) catch the muskox on their permits. 13 14 MS. MAAS: So, yeah, unfortunately I 15 don't -- do you have the meeting book or map in front 16 of you, Robbie, did you get that. Did he get the book 17 -- okay, so are you looking at the meeting book right 18 now? 19 20 MR. SWAN: No, I lost my meeting book. 21 22 (Laughter) 23 24 MS. MAAS: Okay. 25 26 MR. SWAN: I'm sorry, unless it's in my 27 email. 28 29 MS. MAAS: Okay. Well, I'll try to 30 explain it, maybe if you just have a map of Unit 23 31 that's in the regulation book that can help too. But 32 we're basically talking about the area around Deering 33 and Buckland. And there's a lot of State land around 34 Deering and Buckland, and so I don't know the exact 35 location where these muskox are being harvested, but 36 they're pretty much all being harvested on the State 37 land, which is closer to those villages than the 38 Federal public lands. But if you're looking at a map 39 of Unit 23, you can see all the colored areas, the 40 yellow, the pink and the purple are the Federal lands. 41 So they're harvesting them somewhere on the white 42 areas. 43 44 MR. SWAN: Okay. I'm sorry but I don't 45 have a map for what you're talking about. But do you 46 know if they harvest the muskox near or around Kivalina 47 area? 48 49 MS. MAAS: No, this closure that we're 50






1 talking about right now is the southwest portion of 2 Unit 23 so around Deering and Buckland. 3 4 MR. SWAN: Okay. 5 6 MS. MAAS: Yeah, but I mean you're 7 right, there's a..... 8 9 MR. SWAN: I'd like to know how much --

10 if you guys can find out, I'd like to know how much 11 muskox were harvested near or around Kivalina, because 12 lately hardly been seeing any muskox in our area. 13 14 MS. MAAS: Yeah, that's a great 15 question. I mean and there is another closure for 16 muskox around Cape Krusenstern, but we just don't have 17 that information because I think that will probably 18 come up in two years when we do our next round of 19 closure reviews. But if you're specifically interested 20 in that I can get you that information but not 21 immediately. I'll have to go back and look it up. 22 23 MR. SWAN: Yes, it'd be nice to know. 24 Because I think we're going to lose our muskoxen in our 25 area because we rarely see them now days. We don't 26 hunt them -- the village don't hunt them here, they've 27 just disappeared. 28 29 MR. FRONSTIN: Hi, Reppe, this is Raime 30 Fronstin from Park Service in Kotzebue. Just to answer 31 your question, well, to try to answer your question, we 32 put out two permits for Cape Krusenstern last year so 33 -- and both were harvested, so two muskoxen were 34 harvested in Cape Krusenstern last year. 35 36 MR. SWAN: Okay. Cape Krusenstern, I 37 don't think has come down really here to our river, or 38 any of -- both of our rivers, (indiscernible) protected 39 but our rivers where (indiscernible) and muskox, you 40 know, we hardly see them there anymore, and I would 41 like to know if those two permits, the location on 42 where they caught them and stuff because I don't want 43 to see our muskox disappear in our rivers. 44 45 MR. FRONSTIN: I believe one was on the 46 spit, Sisolik, and I'm not sure -- they do put the 47 location but I think they may just have to put like 48 Cape Krusenstern, they don't put specific locations. 49 So I'm not sure the other one, exactly where that was. 50






1 MR. SWAN: Okay. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 6 7 MR. SWAN: All right, thank you. 8 That's what I needed to know. 9

10 MR. FRONSTIN: Thank you. 11 12 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 13 Responding to Reppe's question. The agency's, Reppe, 14 try not to make treasure maps to show people where to 15 hunt, where other peoples might go so they try to keep 16 that information private and they try to generalize 17 locations. So just to repeat the message that Raime 18 had shared a moment ago, for example if someone were to 19 harvest a muskox out at Sisolik, they might just say 20 Bering LandBridge, or they might just try to generalize 21 that area, again, not wanting to make a treasure map. 22 23 And if we have any more information 24 about harvest of muskox closer to Kivalina, for example 25 in the Cape Krusenstern National Monument, or in BLM 26 lands, Federal lands that are closer to Kivalina, we'll 27 certainly provide that information, but right now 28 that's the only information we have on the harvest. 29 30 Taikuu. 31 32 MR. SWAN: Yeah, that kind of bothers 33 me but, you know, from being a hunter and we can't map 34 where they catch their animals but from hunter to 35 hunter, usually know, we like to tell stories on where 36 we get animals, so even if we don't put it on paper 37 it's still going to get passed on by hunter to hunter. 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 40 41 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 42 43 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 44 Yeah, I understand your point exactly Reppe, and 45 there's a difference between the kind of information 46 that hunters need, where to go and when to go to 47 harvest wildlife to feed their families versus the kind 48 of information that a land manager needs to make 49 general decisions, but also making sure that 50






1 information is general enough so not to make a treasure 2 map. So I get some of those differences and those 3 challenges and I understand your point very clearly. 4 5 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 6 7 MR. VIVEIROS: Mr. Chair. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead.

10 11 MR. VIVEIROS: I'd like to hear from 12 somebody from Buckland or Deering or on this if there's 13 anybody present. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, our Buckland 16 representative is currently not here at the moment. 17 18 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 21 22 MR. STEVENSON: That would be Raymond 23 Lee. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, that would be 26 Raymond Lee. Go ahead, Hannah. 27 28 MS. LOON: In our small discussions at 29 the caribou working group with National Park Service, 30 muskox are a nuisance in Sisolik area. They're pretty 31 ornery animals busting -- harassing dogs and harassing 32 campers so I'm glad muskox was taken over there. I 33 just wanted -- I'm surprised Maija never talk about it 34 because we talk about it for long time. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else. 39 40 Barbara. 41 42 MR. SWAN: I'm sorry, I didn't hear 43 that young land speak, if they could speak a little 44 louder. 45 46 MS. LOON: This is Paniyayluk Loon. 47 The muskox in Sisolik area are ornery animals. And 48 they harass dogs and camps and people picking berries 49 and they're powerful. so I was happy that muskox was 50






1 taken over there. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any more questions 6 for Lisa. 7 8 MR. SWAN: Thank you. I heard you that 9 time.

10 11 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, Barbara. 12 13 MS. ATORUK: I just have a statement 14 here where we don't have our Buckland representative 15 here at the meeting and the analysis has been given to 16 us and it seems like the person needs to hear from us 17 whether we approve this for the Federal Board to listen 18 to it. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 21 22 MS. MOTO: The muskox in Deering are 23 like a nuisance to us. They're illegal to hunt and 24 they terrorize the village of Deering. They terrorize 25 the graveyard. There's nothing left up there. They 26 come into town and terrorize the dogs and it's just got 27 out of hand. I don't know what else to say. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other questions 32 or comments. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 37 38 MR. STEVENSON: To clarify the question 39 from Barbara Atoruk, are you suggesting that we 40 postpone any vote on this issue until the 41 representative from Buckland arrives. 42 43 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 44 45 MS. ATORUK: Mr. Chair. 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 48 Barbara. 49 50






1 MS. ATORUK: I think that would be more 2 appropriate since the lady from Deering here reports 3 something, there might be maybe some changes that we 4 need to put in there but we need to hear from the 5 region that this hunt is happening at over at 23 6 southwest. 7 8 MS. MAAS: Is he coming later? 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: What was that again? 11 12 MS. ATORUK: I think I'm kind of asking 13 that we table this until our representative from 14 Buckland is here, we heard from Deering and then we 15 need to hear from that to see if this hunt is still 16 good. We can approve it or we can table it. 17 18 Thank you. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Silvano. 21 22 MR. VIVEIROS: Is Raymond going to be 23 here tomorrow? 24 25 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 28 29 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 30 Responding to the question from Silvano and from Lisa, 31 I was expecting Raymond Lee, Jr., from Buckland here 32 today and I have not been able to contact him. 33 34 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, go ahead. 37 38 MR. VIVEIROS: We can make a motion to 39 table it until tomorrow, and then we can decide then. 40 I mean just in case he shows up. I would like to hear 41 from him. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. So there's a 44 motion to move it until tomorrow to get a final 45 decision whether we support it or not,until Raymond Lee 46 arrives -- do I have a motion. 47 48 MR. VIVEIROS: Yeah, I make a motion. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Pookie has a motion, 2 do I have a second. 3 4 MS. ATORUK: I second it. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Barbara seconded. 7 All those in favor, please say aye. 8 9 IN UNISON: Aye.

10 11 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Same sign, nay. 12 13 (No opposing votes) 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, okay, 16 bring back to new business. I'd like to say thank you 17 to Lisa for giving her report. 18 19 Right now we are on C, wildlife 20 reports, resource reports. The first one is law 21 enforcement update with the law enforcement officers, 22 Park, BLM, State. 23 24 Go ahead, whoever wants to go first. 25 26 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: Okay, this is Joe 27 Dollemolle. I'm the District Ranger with the National 28 Park Service here in Kotzebue. I'll let my 29 counterparts introduce themselves and I'll introduce a 30 couple other folks in the back of the room and possibly 31 on the phone. 32 33 TROOPER LEATH: Good morning. Rex Leath 34 with the Alaska Wildlife Troopers. I'm the captain 35 with the Wildlife Troopers. We have the Wildlife 36 Troopers separated into two divisions, one is the 37 northern division and one is the southern division. 38 The northern division covers the road system in Alaska 39 from Valdez up to Tok up to the North Slope, around the 40 western side of Alaska, and then down to Dillingham and 41 then the Kenai Peninsula region. So it's a pretty big 42 area, and that's the area I supervise. 43 44 TROOPER BJORK: Scott Bjork. Alaska 45 Wildlife Troopers, Kotzebue. I'm the Trooper for all of 46 Game Management Unit 23. 47 48 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: I'd like to 49 introduce a couple other people in the room right now 50






1 that are part of this working group. I'll go on to 2 explain just what this working group is and what we do 3 in a moment, but I just want to acknowledge the other 4 officers in the room. 5 6 So we have Walker Gusse with the BLM, 7 he's based out of Anchorage. And he's the ranger that 8 is responsible for this area of the state. 9

10 Not present here are several other 11 officers that participate in this working group and 12 they're with the Fish and Wildlife, Steven Strater is 13 the zone officer based in Fairbanks and one of his 14 employees, Brandon Bosch, who would normally be part of 15 these conversations. They can't be with us today, I 16 don't believe they're on the phone right now but in the 17 future they plan to be more active and a part of these 18 updates. 19 20 We also have Damon Schaeffer, with 21 NANA, he runs a trespass program for NANA as well so 22 he's a big part of this working group. 23 24 Essentially this Conservation Law 25 Enforcement Working Group, as we're calling it is a 26 group of all the law enforcement agencies, the land 27 management based law enforcement agencies that focus on 28 concerns such that it would be appropriate for this 29 working group, wildlife concerns, other conservation 30 issues within specifically this area of Alaska, Game 31 Management Unit 23 and the general surrounding areas of 32 the Northwest Arctic. 33 34 So hearing concerns over the past 35 several years through various working groups and 36 community members, including concerns brought up by 37 this forum here, we have gotten together and formed 38 this sort of working group that we have amongst the 39 various agencies so that we can collaborate, 40 communicate and coordinate a lot of our efforts, 41 including projecting a unified message out to the 42 public. The goal of this working group is to meet 43 formally four times a year here in Kotzebue, some 44 members will call in but we've had two meetings so far. 45 Our first meeting took place in December and all 46 members were present, minus one, but those officers 47 usually aren't necessarily present within the region 48 came up in person and we met to kind of form this group 49 and decide which direction we were going in. We met 50






1 yesterday as well, it's our second meeting and we're 2 still sorting deciding where we're going as a group, 3 but, generally, you know, we're meeting to coordinate 4 and collaborate like I mentioned. And so far that's 5 gone very well, I believe, within the different 6 agencies. 7 8 We've talked about a lot of issues that 9 we've brought up with each other from how we can better

10 address some of the concerns from groups like this and 11 the public as well as better support the missions of 12 our agencies. 13 14 Do you have anything to say right now, 15 we can talk a little bit more if the group is 16 interested in some of the work that we're doing. We 17 don't necessarily need to get into all those details 18 right now but if -- or I'd rather, I guess, open it up 19 to questions from this group if anybody has for us. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do we have any 22 questions for him from the Board. 23 24 Barbara. 25 26 MS. ATORUK: I'm just impressed to see 27 you here Joe. Seeing you growing up here in Kotzebue 28 and then being able to sit here with -- to see one of 29 us here -- I give you my compliments. 30 31 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: Great. Thank you. 32 Nice to see you here as well. 33 34 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Is there anyone else. 35 36 Hannah. 37 38 MS. LOON: Taikuu. It's very 39 heartwarming to hear that you have a working group, 40 especially with NANA trespass program. It kind of 41 reminds me of in the village that people come together 42 and you guys did come together and keep up the good 43 work and I encourage you to, you know, don't be afraid 44 to ask village people what you're doing -- I mean what 45 they're doing. 46 47 Thank you very much. 48 49 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 2 3 TROOPER LEATH: So, again, my name's 4 Rex Leath. I'm with the Wildlife Troopers. One thing 5 we'd like to mention is as part of this working group, 6 one thing we had discussed is the diversity in the 7 region and how broad it is and the challenge sometimes 8 in getting information to law enforcement when you want 9 to report something that you think may be illegal or if

10 someone's doing something you think that is illegal, or 11 maybe you don't know if it's illegal. 12 13 So a little background real quick, so 14 you know. 15 16 I used to live in Kotzebue, I was 17 stationed here with the Troopers about 15 years ago. 18 My children, we have four sons, we come back to the 19 region every year, spring, summer, fall and winter. We 20 hunt, we fish. I grew up in Kodiak, Alaska, that's 21 where I'm from and I commercial fished and hunted 22 there. I'm familiar with pretty much the entire 23 region. I've traveled it on snowmachine and boat, my 24 wife and my boys -- my older boys are married but we 25 plan to retire to the region so we have a vested 26 interest here as well. 27 28 One thing we have found personally, in 29 personal use here, is sometimes when you're on land you 30 don't know where you're at, as far as who owns it. 31 Whether it's State selected, Native allotment, Federal, 32 State and it gets very confusing as to who you should 33 call if something happens or if there's something 34 illegal. So we've talked about that as a working group 35 and we think there's a need for a centralized place or 36 phone number to call so local people can call one phone 37 number if they want to report something and we make 38 sure that gets to the right agency to address that 39 problem. So we're still in the infancy of developing 40 that model, what it will look like. But our dream, so 41 to speak, for the region, would be that everyone can 42 have one phone number by your phone, and if someone's 43 taking fish they shouldn't take, someone's chasing 44 moose that shouldn't be chasing moose, or there's maybe 45 a guide that shouldn't be a guide in that region, you 46 can call one phone number and know that it's going to 47 get to the right place so we can try to address that 48 for you. 49 50






1 So something to look forward to for the 2 future, we're going to try to work on that as a group 3 and come up with that centralized phone number, 4 hopefully, that everyone can call. And if anyone has 5 any questions on that we'd be glad to answer those 6 questions. 7 8 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other questions 9 from the Board. Yeah, go ahead.

10 11 MR. PATTEE: Yeah, I have a question. 12 So working with NANA lands, in what capacity do they 13 have, I mean when -- a lot of the people in the village 14 are comfortable talking to the local person that works 15 for the NANA land security, do they have to gather 16 evidence or do they just call you, then you guys -- we 17 wait for you to respond or how does the process work? 18 19 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 22 23 TROOPER LEATH: So one issue with 24 trespass is, when a person trespasses on someone's 25 property, unless they've already been notified that 26 they're on private property, they can't be charged with 27 a crime the first time. So we have to officially 28 contact them and notify them and tell them that they're 29 on someone's property illegally. So the first time 30 someone trespasses on someone's land it's important 31 that we get those calls very timely so that we can 32 hopefully contact that person before they head down 33 river or maybe fly out of the region so we can give 34 them official notice that they can't be on that land 35 anymore without the owner's permission. 36 37 Does that answer your question? 38 39 MR. PATTEE: Yes. And I also have 40 another one. So Ambler, you know, we have a lot of 41 State land and all Alaskans they have the right to hunt 42 in that area, but there are -- at times I've seen 43 illegal guiding and so what would be that process, so 44 we call you guys and then you guys fly up there or I 45 mean do people gather evidence, take pictures, or what 46 can they do to help you guys do your guys job? 47 48 TROOPER LEATH: So Trooper Scott Bjork, 49 he's the local Trooper here in Kotzebue, I'll let him 50






1 answer that question for you directly so you can get it 2 straight from him. 3 4 TROOPER BJORK: Thank you. And I do 5 understand your concern and what helps me, since I'm 6 the only Trooper for this whole game management I can't 7 be in every place at once. So if you do see a 8 violation, pictures, videos are very good. I get a lot 9 of phone calls of planes flying, but sometimes people

10 don't know what the tail numbers are or what exactly 11 they're doing so if they can take pictures or videos I 12 can sometimes match planes up with that. If you think 13 there's somebody illegally guiding, document, contact 14 me, obviously and I can -- that's an initial where I 15 come out and start the investigation. But anything can 16 help, especially, you know, if you can document what 17 you're seeing out in the field. But don't, you know, 18 don't get yourself in trouble, don't confront somebody 19 because, you know, you don't want to start an issue. 20 21 MR. PATTEE: Okay. And do they get the 22 same warning, you don't -- you just tell them that 23 they're doing something wrong or is this a crime where 24 they actually get charge on the illegal guiding? 25 26 TROOPER BJORK: If somebody's illegally 27 guiding there are regulations..... 28 29 MR. PATTEE: That's a crime. 30 31 TROOPER BJORK: .....that's different 32 than trespassing on lands. 33 34 MR. PATTEE: Okay, gotcha. 35 36 TROOPER BJORK: So there are 37 regulations in place of permits and requirements to be 38 guiding in Alaska. 39 40 MR. PATTEE: Thank you. 41 42 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: And if I may, 43 through the Chair, also address that to some extent. 44 45 So one of the things about this working 46 group that we're trying to accomplish is how we can 47 better coordinate matters and issues such as yours that 48 you just brought up, between the various agencies. We 49 all have different resources, we have different 50






1 authorities and jurisdictions. Of course the Wildlife 2 Troopers have a greater authority and jurisdiction over 3 all the lands, but they also have only one Trooper here 4 at the time. So some of what we're trying to establish 5 are through endeavors like this tip line, through 6 better community engagement and all kinds of other ways 7 of addressing some of these issues that we have, on who 8 do you report to, what can we do, how can we address 9 this, and then when it comes to us, how can we actually

10 respond as agencies and how can we help each other out 11 if we're not available. 12 13 So would that, in the future, include, 14 somebody coming to a NANA trespass officer, who might 15 be a little bit more experienced than just a local 16 resident and asking some of those questions on behalf 17 of the Trooper. I'm not saying that would necessarily 18 take place right now, but if one of us is present for a 19 different agency, can we help each other out by being a 20 point of contact for community members and can we 21 assist each other through memorandums of understanding 22 or other authorities, and we're exploring that, those 23 topics and those issues as a group as a whole on how we 24 can consolidate our resources but how we can be a more 25 unified voice and kind of speak on each other's behalf 26 a little bit better so folks aren't receiving a bunch 27 of different messages that are confusing to them. 28 29 And so please have patience with us as 30 we work all of that out, we will try to meet when we 31 can and we're making an effort as a group solidly to 32 meet four times a year, but, of course, we're all 33 speaking with each other beyond just those group 34 meetings and trying to work on some of these issues and 35 work it out. But I think we've made excellent progress 36 so far between all the different agencies. NANA 37 trespass program, Damon Schaeffer, in particular, has 38 been a big part of that, and we really appreciate 39 everybody's involvement up to this stage and we know 40 we're just going to expand that into the future and 41 solicit more input from the communities and other 42 members within the public. 43 44 One part of that is to try to work on a 45 better messaging campaign, kind of speak with a unified 46 voice on some of the information that we, as law 47 enforcement agencies, want to get out to the public and 48 establishing that and working towards that unified 49 message we hope to work very closely with the tribal 50






1 governments, with groups such as this one here before 2 us today and the public at large and get that input 3 into some of the priorities and what might be important 4 to include within that and then hopefully we can begin 5 sort of projecting that out into the communities with a 6 very heavy focus on outside hunters and commercial 7 groups that are coming in here as well. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do we have any other 12 questions. 13 14 Barbara. 15 16 MS. ATORUK: Yes, I just have a 17 question on the NANA trespass officers, are they here 18 with you in training or is it just Vance who goes 19 through the training and then trains the trespass 20 officers, Vance, thank you. 21 22 OFFICER SCHAEFFER: It's Damon. 23 24 MS. ATORUK: I mean Damon. 25 26 (Laughter) 27 28 MR. SCHAEFFER: This is Damon Schaeffer 29 with NANA and we do -- every year before the season 30 starts we put on a training for all our officers, where 31 they fly to Kotzebue and then we do invite these guys 32 here to participate in that training so that our guys 33 out there in the field, that they're fully aware of the 34 different regulations, the different land managers and 35 how to respond to the various issues that they face 36 when they're out there in the field. 37 38 MS. ATORUK: Thank you, Sir. 39 40 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Louie. 41 42 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. My question 43 relates to Dalton Highway, hunting pressure. I don't 44 know if you know the numbers. The reason I'm bringing 45 this up is because of the proposed Ambler Road. The 46 hunting pressure in Dalton Highway could shift toward 47 the proposed Ambler Road. I just ask if you might know 48 something about it. 49 50






1 Thank you. 2 3 TROOPER LEATH: Mr. Commack. You're 4 exactly right with the concern about hunting pressure 5 off the Dalton Highway with an Ambler Road being 6 potentially pushed westward in the region. I've spoken 7 to the road project coordinator and their office 8 several times, personally. We do, obviously think that 9 if that road is put in, there obviously will be some

10 level of increased access to that region when it comes 11 to wildlife and fisheries harvest. Right now, the 12 road, it's still in the development stages as to how 13 that road will be used. We're monitoring whether or 14 not it will be open for public use or only rural use 15 from those communities. That's one of the options 16 right now. And I won't speak for the Ambler Road 17 director right now, but I can say they're considering 18 that road not being opened to all the public. So in 19 other words, people from Fairbanks potentially may not 20 be able to get up to that road and drive down it. They 21 may put a giant gate on that road, similar to Red Dog, 22 where non-local users can't go up there and get in a 23 car and drive up and down the road and hunt, that may 24 be one way that road is developed. But we are 25 monitoring that. Because if the road is open for 26 public access, I've already looked at our Staffing 27 model for the State and where we have Trooper offices, 28 Wildlife Trooper offices in that region, because if 29 that road was open for public access, myself, 30 personally, I know from, you know, from Kobuk to 31 Shungnak, Dall Creek up the Redstone River, all that 32 area, if it was open to people from the road system the 33 current management model in that region when it comes 34 to law enforcement is not designed to handle that type 35 of influx of people. 36 37 So hopefully that answers your 38 question. 39 40 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. Thank you for 41 the response. 42 43 Is there any airports being considered 44 on Beaver Creek, Upper Kobuk, mining claims, private 45 land ownership, and they're going to deny people. 46 47 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. So 48 whether or not mining permits are issued or reissued, 49 that would be up to Bureau of Land Management, or 50






1 Department of Natural Resources when it comes to State 2 lands, and right now I can't speak for those offices. 3 They are in communication with the Ambler Road Mining 4 Project and those questions are being asked as to what 5 their model would like for allowing more people into 6 that region. It's just an assumption on our part, we 7 do assume that if a road were to go into that region, 8 that there would be a large amount of people wanting 9 access to those areas, but BLM and DNR would be the

10 entities that would answer those questions, probably 11 specifically to that exact question. I just couldn't 12 speak for them. 13 14 But we have been talking about it. 15 16 Hopefully that answers your question. 17 18 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. Well, 19 whenever things are being considered we need data. We 20 need data. A lot of times we're left out in the 21 conversation then we find out later on that decisions 22 are being made already without our participation in the 23 meetings and the hard questions that are going to come. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Silvano. 28 29 MR. VIVEIROS: I have a question. Does 30 the Alaska State Troopers or the Park Service plan on 31 bringing in people to help NANA do some of this 32 enforcement because I don't think NANA should be doing 33 the enforcement by themselves. It seems like every 34 hunting season it falls back on our corporation to 35 help, you know, our people in the region, and I don't 36 think that's how it should be. I think the law 37 enforcement should step up a little bit that time of 38 year and not have to put the pressure on our 39 corporation to help enforce these -- that's just me, 40 because I feel that the money should go to the 41 shareholders and -- I mean it creates jobs and that's 42 great and everything, but I'm just wondering when the 43 State will try to help. 44 45 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 46 Very good question. So currently in the State we are 47 dealing with a very similar challenge in the Glennallen 48 region with the Ahtna Corporation. They are a large 49 land owner and their lands are easily accessed, more 50






1 easily accessed than the lands here in the Northwest 2 Arctic region to public and non-owners. And in dealing 3 with them and we've had several court decisions in the 4 past that have said what the State's authority is to 5 proactively show up and try to help protect private 6 property. And the State, by design, by our 7 Constitution, we don't have the ability to proactively 8 go protect someone's private property line when it 9 comes to trespass. And that is a challenge because we

10 know it does happen a lot. Once we've notified someone 11 though, that they have trespassed, then we have more 12 authority to proactively show up if we think that 13 person's going to come back. 14 15 An example might be let's say on the 16 Wulik, upper Wulik, if someone has a 40 acre allotment 17 there, and one fall you call us when there's a guide on 18 your land with an airplane and a tent, and Trooper 19 Bjork shows up and he tells that person you need to 20 leave, you don't have permission from the land owner to 21 be on this property, well, if we hear that they're 22 going to be there the next year and do that again, we 23 very likely will have a person in the region respond to 24 that area and try to contact that person again, just 25 like you pointed out, we should be able to do that for 26 you if we have the man power. So that's an example of 27 how we can send man power once we think there's going 28 to be a problem. But we just can't proactively patrol 29 for a trespass crime, because the way the law reads, we 30 can't charge them with a crime until they've already 31 been notified. So if they haven't been notified yet, 32 them stepping on the first time is not a crime. 33 34 Hopefully that makes sense. 35 36 MS. ATORUK: It makes sense. 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Silvano. 39 40 MR. VIVEIROS: How many Troopers are 41 herein Kotzebue year-round? 42 43 TROOPER LEATH: So for the Troopers 44 overall, roughly we have nine. And as you know the 45 divisions are the Wildlife Troopers, the Alaska State 46 Troopers both can do both jobs, but the Wildlife 47 Troopers, they're trained to do both jobs full-time,so 48 Trooper Bjork, one day he might be in, you know, in 49 Kiana for an assault situation he's dealing with, and 50






1 the next day he might be in Deering dealing with 2 someone that had to shoot a muskox in defense of life 3 and property. The other Troopers that wear this color 4 uniform every day, they aren't trained in wildlife laws 5 and regulations so they don't do both jobs every day. 6 7 So hopefully that answers your 8 question. 9

10 MR. VIVEIROS: It does. Thanks. And 11 thank you guys for your service and working with the 12 corporation. It's just my perspective on it. 13 14 Thank you. 15 16 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: Joe Dollemolle from 17 the Park Service, just to touch on your concern as 18 well. 19 20 Right now the Federal government is 21 kind of in the same boat, we obviously can't enforce 22 any laws through the Park Service, BLM, Fish and 23 Wildlife on non-Federal lands, with some exceptions, 24 within some of our authorities and some laws, but those 25 are very few and far between up in this area. So 26 actively patrolling NANA land, that's something that 27 would be very difficult to allow for for the National 28 Park Service. 29 30 One of the things that we are exploring 31 with NANA and will be working towards is trying to 32 create a memorandum of understanding which will give 33 increased authorities to sharing resources and possibly 34 share within some sort of joint patrol operations. 35 36 For one example of some of the things 37 that we can do together and have done in the past is 38 share aircraft. So the National Park Service has 39 several aircraft up here and one of the things that 40 might be possible to do is include NANA trespass 41 officers within some of those flights, and that would 42 include some very basic training which we are offering 43 to NANA now and other areas, including the Troopers, to 44 be able to fly on our aircraft. And I just want to 45 point out that that's one of those types of examples 46 that we're talking about and probably even do now 47 without that memorandum of understanding. We just have 48 to look into some of the details on that but we are 49 working towards those steps as best we can with the 50






1 resources available. 2 3 And I would like to point out that the 4 NANA trespass program and their officers have been 5 instrumental to all of our agencies. Obviously when 6 they are employed during the hunting season there are a 7 lot more of those officers out there than there are any 8 Federal or State officers in the area, and those are 9 people from the villages and from the communities that

10 know the land and know the people and they've been 11 instrumental in a number of cases in reporting and 12 assisting us in a lot of ways so I just want to thank 13 NANA for that. 14 15 I'd also like to point out, as was just 16 brought up to me, that this working group that we 17 formed here, is possibly one of the only -- or the 18 first within the state of its kind, kind of at a local 19 level, that's bringing together these agencies and 20 especially including the Native corporations within 21 this, so this might be a good model as it continues to 22 work out for the rest of the state, that others might 23 be interested in. But this is kind of a pilot program 24 here completely independent of anybody else but at a 25 local level, we hope to see good things come of it. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Pookie. 28 29 MR. VIVEIROS: Has the State VPSOs or 30 the Borough, at that time of year, have they been 31 helping you guys? I mean just asking. 32 33 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. So 34 as it applies to the VPSO program, the village public 35 safety officer program, they are not allowed, by 36 contract, to assist with..... 37 38 (Teleconference interruption) 39 40 MR. SWAN: Hello, I have a question. 41 42 TROOPER LEATH: .....to assist..... 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, Zach. 47 48 MR. STEVENSON: For the person on 49 teleconference, we'll get to you next, we're wrapping 50






1 up the law enforcement presentation but know that 2 you're waiting. 3 4 Thank you. 5 6 TROOPER LEATH: So through the Chair 7 again. So the VPSOs are not allowed to assist with 8 wildlife enforcement cases. 9

10 And a real quick summary of that. 11 12 The money that pays for the VPSOs comes 13 from the Federal government and it's designed to do 14 certain things. When they first allotted that money 15 they didn't put wildlife and environmental protection 16 in that description. So while the VPSOs, at times do 17 want to help, they can't. 18 19 When it comes to other agencies that 20 help us, like North Slope Borough. North Slope Borough 21 Police Department, they do take reports for us at 22 times, and they proactively pass those to us when it 23 comes to wildlife and fisheries violations, especially 24 in the northern region. So they are a shareholder and 25 a stakeholder member in this effort. 26 27 MR. VIVEIROS: Thanks. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, do we have 30 somebody on the phone, go ahead. 31 32 MR. SWAN: Yes. About the caribou 33 migration, are sports hunters allowed to camp on the 34 migration route of the caribous? 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, do you guys 37 want to answer that for him or..... 38 39 TROOPER BJORK: Is he referring 40 specifically to like transporters and guides or just 41 sport hunters in general? 42 43 MR. SWAN: Sports hunters in general 44 because we get a lot of sport hunters in both of our 45 rivers so I'm wondering if they're allowed to camp 46 right in the migration of the caribou routes. 47 48 TROOPER BJORK: So they're allowed to 49 access certain lands. Obviously Native allotments and 50






1 other Native lands, unless they have permission to 2 access it, they're not allowed,and that's where we work 3 with NANA on that. State lands, unless there's a 4 corridor that prevents sportshunters -- there are 5 certain areas, like at the Noatak that prevent 6 sporthunters in certain areas, but in general it just 7 depends on what land, and obviously this game 8 management unit has a lot of different lands throughout 9 the -- managed by different people.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 14 15 MR. SWAN: Okay. So, you know, in 16 order to stop that we would have to regulate it even if 17 it's on State lands, that they're not allowed to camp 18 on the migration route of the caribou? 19 20 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 21 This is Rex Leath speaking. Correct. There would have 22 to be a regulation that prohibited someone from camping 23 in a certain location. Elsewhere in the state there 24 are State lands that have regulations applied to them 25 based on camping, or creating a fire or things like 26 that. But currently in Unit 23 specifically, in this 27 region, there's very few areas where that's not 28 allowed. And if we did form a regulation that 29 prohibited someone from camping in a caribou migration 30 route, the problem we might have with that is if the 31 migration changes by 100 yards or by 500 yards or that 32 migration goes through someone's fish camp, all of a 33 sudden the person in that fish camp may not be able to 34 camp there. And so that's something that we would have 35 to consider on how that regulation was formed. 36 37 So if someone wanted to make a proposal 38 like that to the Board of Game then that would have to 39 be something that we'd have to really think through to 40 be careful that we didn't cause more conflict for local 41 users. 42 43 MR. SWAN: It just causes more conflict 44 for us, the migration route has changed. By far the 45 most, five miles from where they migrate from. So we 46 have to travel five miles more up our small river just 47 to get caribou. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, on the phone, 50






1 can you identify yourself, we didn't get your name. 2 3 MR. SWAN: Reppe Swan, Kivalina, sorry 4 about that. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, thank you, 7 Reppe. Go ahead. Any other..... 8 9 MR. SWAN: It's happening in both our

10 rivers, we're getting more and more sporthunters and 11 the more sporthunters we get we have to travel farther 12 up by boat because we cannot afford to charter a plane 13 up there to get caribou, it's too expensive for us, and 14 on top of that our rivers are small channels, some 15 parts where you can just walk knee deep of water all 16 the way across the river. And with the sportshunters 17 getting more and more we are having to travel farther 18 and farther up our river every year just to get the 19 caribou we need. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Damon. 22 23 MR. SCHAEFFER: This is Damon, I'm with 24 NANA. And to respond to Reppe's comment, we do -- we 25 have heard that concern from the community about the 26 increase in the sporthunters in his area. We've heard 27 that in some of the other communities, too, you know, 28 you get the closures that happened in Noatak and then a 29 lot of the focus, it seems to have been targeted to 30 Kivalina and then Kiana and the Ambler area. And so we 31 hear that fromNANA and the trespass programand we've -- 32 this season we've looked to increase the amount of 33 officers that we have posted in those communities and 34 then also have a full-time officer in the community of 35 Kivalina with a boat to go and patrol those areas. 36 37 MR. SWAN: Kivalina hasn't gotten a 38 boat from the NANA security and if they were able to 39 get a boat, it would have to be a shallow water boat, 40 it cannot have a prop. You would make it 10 miles, 41 five miles because the river is so shallow with the 42 prop. 43 44 MR. SCHAEFFER: Yeah, we've heard that 45 comment too about the river depth and, yeah, we're 46 looking into purchasing the right boat. That boat's 47 not there yet, but it will be this year. 48 49 MR. SWAN: How would we go about the 50






1 process of regulating the sportshunters on not allowing 2 them to camp in the routes of the caribou migration? 3 4 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 5 This is Rex Leath speaking. If you would like to make 6 a proposal for a regulation that effects hunting or 7 fishing, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, the 8 Board of Game, you can make a proposal to that office 9 and if you go on the internet or if you call our local

10 office, we can point you to the right website and we 11 will give you the link to get to that page where you 12 can make that proposal and that would go before the 13 Board in next year's cycle and they would consider that 14 regulation for you. 15 16 MR. SWAN: Okay, thank you. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, go ahead, 19 Damon. 20 21 MR. SCHAEFFER: Hi, Reppe, this is 22 Damon again. I just also wanted to mention something 23 that the Kiana Elders Council put together and it was 24 the hunter success initiative and they recognized in 25 their community that the migration of the herd was 26 being deterred by not allowing the caribou to migrate 27 through, like they should, and so they recognized that 28 and they put together this hunter success initiative 29 and we met with the Elders Council when they delivered 30 that and we -- our program also agreed to share that so 31 we train our officers on their initiative and we 32 provide it as educational material throughout the 33 season, not just to non-local hunters, but local 34 hunters as well. 35 36 So definitely, I feel like that 37 initiative, it had a really positive effect on the way 38 people are hunting out there. 39 40 MR. SWAN:" Thank you. 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, Reppe. Which 43 one of you guys was first, go ahead, Silvano, and then 44 Hannah next. 45 46 MR. VIVEIROS: So I know we were 47 talking about the working group, and I think we kind of 48 strayed from it, so I mean if we can have a point of 49 order and move along. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah. 2 3 Go ahead, Hannah. 4 5 MS. LOON: Thank you very much. I'm 6 glad Reppe asked that question and it has always been 7 addressed to the RAC committee about the Squirrel River 8 hunting by transporters but that is BLM land, we are 9 not in the jurisdiction to deal with transporters.

10 Transporters just drop their clients and go pick them 11 up later, but other sportsmen guides, they have ethics 12 and they camp way far, in some case like Tagororik (ph) 13 River where we can't go. It's concerning to me, it's 14 always been discussed for the -- for your working group 15 to address with BLM in possibly making the camps 16 stretch out or work on that issue. 17 18 Thank you very much. 19 20 And thank you Silvano, I think we've 21 done enough talking about this. 22 23 (Laughter) 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. This is the 26 last question, and after that we're going to BLM. 27 28 MR. COMMACK: Okay, thank you. Do you 29 know how far above Kobuk do you patrol? 30 31 MR. SCHAEFFER: So our jurisdiction as 32 far as our officers go, it's strictly NANA lands, but 33 it also -- so our program is funded by NANA but as well 34 as we receive funding from the Borough, so we do Title 35 IX monitoring when it's requested, so as far as above 36 Kobuk, it's the boundary and that boundary, I want to 37 say is -- it varies, I mean there's not one set spot. 38 But we -- you know, in our training, and we have this 39 group come to our training, so our offices go beyond 40 just NANA lands, they've really -- we've been used as a 41 resource and we're glad to be used as a resource to 42 report some of these issues even if it's not within our 43 jurisdiction. If we can be first on the ground and 44 improve the response to the concerns that we hear from 45 the community, as well as responding to the issues, 46 helping these guys get there quicker, yeah, we want to 47 help out as much as we can. 48 49 But I guess I've had -- Carl Snyder was 50






1 our officer last year and, you know, I want to say he 2 was up, probably just below the Maniilaq River..... 3 4 MR. COMMACK: Uh-huh. 5 6 MR. SCHAEFFER: .....which is it's 7 outside of our area but, you know, we heard some issues 8 up there last year and we want to check it out. 9

10 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. It always 11 seems like there's activity going on every fall above 12 Maniilaq, Beaver Creek, all those rivers out there. So 13 that's why I bring it up. And be mindful of like we're 14 45 minutes from Fairbanks, that area. 15 16 Thank you. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. We had another 19 question from the public. Charlie, go ahead. 20 21 MR. GREGG: Yeah, Louie, we contract 22 with -- excuse me, my name is Charlie Gregg and I'm 23 with Northwest Arctic Borough, and we contract with 24 Purcell Security, and he's talking about lands above 25 Kobuk, and Northwest Arctic Borough has some lands, 26 Maniilaq River, Parr River (ph), Beaver River, so those 27 areas, so what we do is we fly around those areas to 28 make sure that if we see some camps then we try and 29 find out who's camps those are, if they are hunters 30 camps then we will remind them that this is Borough 31 lands. And the reason we hire Purcell Security, the 32 Northwest Arctic Borough doesn't have the law 33 enforcement ability so that's the reason we hire NANA. 34 35 I hope I answered your question. 36 37 MR. COMMACK: Well, thank you. Be 38 mindful that upper Kobuk is the spawning area for 39 salmon and trout and every kind of fish you could 40 imagine. With this catch and release thing there have 41 been concerns about it. People that do recreational 42 fishing and catch and release. I don't know if it's 43 true or not, but the jet boats do disturb the egg 44 spawning areas, so just be mindful of that. 45 46 Thank you very much for all you guys 47 do. 48 49 Thank you. 50






1 MR. GREGG: And thank you for that 2 information Louie. 3 4 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Any questions 5 for you guys. 6 7 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. One 8 last comment I'd like to make if possible. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 11 12 TROOPER LEATH: So earlier I spoke of a 13 centralized call in number, there's two things that 14 that will do. first of all, the system that the State 15 has in place, when we get a phone call about a 16 violation or a criminal act that's occurring, we now 17 can put it into a computer system that will generate a 18 map and we can track all those events on a map, and the 19 word is geo-spacial, but to summarize it, we can look 20 at a map at the end of the year and if you ask us -- if 21 you ask the State, where are the violations occurring, 22 we can give you a map and show all the little red dots, 23 just like the caribou tracking map you see, so we know 24 where these things are occurring, and that helps us 25 focus our enforcement efforts to a specific region the 26 next year. 27 28 So if Ambler calls us and the Ambler 29 River has 25 calls in September, where the Redstone and 30 the Ambler meet, we know that next year we probably 31 need to be there with a Trooper waiting for something 32 to happen. 33 34 For that to happen, though, we need 35 that centralized phone call to come into one location, 36 so whatever agency needs to respond to that call, it 37 gets to the right agency. So as a working group, one 38 thing we'd like to request, if the Board felt it 39 appropriate, is a letter of support for that 40 centralized collection point, or centralized phone 41 number to be put in place. What that will do is that 42 will give us traction or support to make sure that's 43 the direction we go, to try to make it a focal point 44 for our working group, if that makes sense. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Silvano. 47 48 MR. VIVEIROS: So you'd like a letter 49 of support from this group? 50






1 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 2 Yes, Sir, if you guys -- if you feel appropriate that 3 that's something you think would be beneficial to this 4 effort to try to manage everything from trespass issues 5 to wildlife and fisheries concerns. If we see that as 6 your focus, that's' something that we would make a 7 priority. 8 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 like to thank you guys for your guys service, it's 16 always a pleasure having you guys out there to cover 17 our country, you know, and make sure things are going 18 good out there. Thank NANA, you know, for putting 19 their effort, and putting people out there in the 20 fields and helping deal with these issues. 21 22 It's good knowing that we have a lot 23 more people out there patrolling our lands. 24 25 You know the only question I had is 26 like do you guys post somebody at the airport for when 27 these guides and transporters land and do you guys go 28 over and inspect their harvests. Because I know last 29 year a couple of people said that, you know, when they 30 did receive meat that it was all rancid already and 31 they were like what do we do with it, they gave it to 32 us, if we throw it away then we're going to get busted 33 for wanton waste. So, you know, that's always a big 34 question that's always going to occur. 35 36 TROOPER BJORK: Through the Chair. 37 This is Scott Bjork. So I try to, as a Wildlife 38 Trooper, I do fly out to the camps, I contact the 39 people out in the camps for both transporters and 40 guides, I also try -- when I see the planes come in, 41 try to contact the planes, inspect the meat as much as 42 possible, make sure that everybody's in compliance. 43 Unfortunately I can't be everywhere, be out in the 44 camps, be in every part of the region, and so as much 45 as I can I try to do that. If there are any issues, 46 please bring it up to me, contact me, and we have, as a 47 working group, have been trying to come up with a -- 48 talked about solutions on with regards to the meat. 49 Because unfortunately a lot of the hunters that are 50

CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Any more questions.

(No comments)

CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing

none.

I'd






1 using these commercial services aren't bringing back 2 the meat with them and so they might not take care of 3 the meat as necessary as need be. 4 5 TROOPER LEATH: Through the Chair. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 8 9 TROOPER LEATH: To follow up on that

10 real quick. As Scott mentioned, and this is Rex Leath 11 speaking, we did speak about that very topic yesterday 12 and as a Board you can expect this fall, statewide for 13 the Alaska Wildlife Troopers, that is a focus for us, 14 animals that are being harvested and the meat is not 15 being retained by anyone, or it's not being cared for 16 with the intention of it to be eaten at some point. 17 18 As you all know sitting in this room, 19 those of us in this room, that when we harvest animals 20 for our families, we care for that meat because there's 21 value in that for our family and we want to insure that 22 it's edible and that it will sustain us through the 23 winter, or through the summer months. If we don't 24 intend to eat that meat, there's no care or intent to 25 take care of it. And we are going to make a concerted 26 focus across the whole state, but specifically this 27 region, I know personally living here and coming back 28 for many, many years, I, too often, have seen meat 29 wasted that they then try to just offload into the 30 local community that's not edible and we are going to 31 directly address that issue this fall and this summer 32 here in this region. So you can expect to see us being 33 very low tolerance for people that try to give away 34 meat that's not edible. 35 36 Now, on that note, though, we did speak 37 of we are very cautious, also, though, and use 38 discretion if someone is given meat that's not edible, 39 we're not going to cite that person for failure to take 40 care of that meat. We understand, a very good point, 41 that that happens, and people end up with meat 42 sometimes, someone will call them and drop off two bags 43 of meat on their porch and when they get home they 44 realize it's not edible, our intention is we're not 45 going to be citing those people that weren't 46 responsible for that. But we are going to address 47 people harvesting animals and then not caring for the 48 meat and then hoping to just drop it off in town, 49 that's just not acceptable. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 2 3 TROOPER BJORK: Through the Chair. And 4 some of the issues, what I'm seeing is, is I'll contact 5 the hunters while they're getting off the plane and the 6 meat might be in edible condition right now, but after 7 they get off the plane then they bring it back and they 8 process it, from that point, I don't know if it gets 9 donated to somebody within a timely manner and that's

10 hard for us to control of what condition the meat is 11 once it's, you know, been inspected and if it's been 12 donated to somebody in the community in a timely 13 manner. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Silvano. 16 17 MR. VIVEIROS: So, Mr. Chair..... 18 19 MR. SWAN: Hello, Reppe from Kivalina. 20 21 MR. VIVEIROS: .....he had previously 22 asked for a letter of support for the Northwest Arctic 23 Conservation Law Enforcement Working Group and we kind 24 of strayed from that, so I'd like to call a point of 25 order and make a motion to write a letter to support 26 the Northwest Arctic Conservation Law Enforcement 27 Working Group based on your recommendation, of course. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: We keep getting 30 people getting in there, okay, this is the last one, 31 Louie, can you go ahead and say what you got to say and 32 then we're going to get back on the point. 33 34 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. Thank you. 35 When you talk about meat parts, say that I'm in 36 Kotzebue, what exactly are you talking about, the 37 hindquarters, the ribs, what? 38 39 TROOPER BJORK: They're required to 40 salvage the hindquarters, the ribs, the brisket, the 41 front quarters, all four quarters, and they're required 42 to take that meat out of the field before any antlers 43 come out of the field as well. So like I said, when it 44 gets in town, if I'm around, I will go and contact it 45 getting offloaded and inspected at that point. But 46 after it's been inspected, you know, they take it back 47 to process it. 48 49 MR. COMMACK: Okay. In our culture, 50






1 our people eat the (indiscernible - distorted), the 2 liver, many other body parts of the caribou and moose, 3 what happens to that, if only the hindquarters show up 4 in Kotzebue, or ribs or whatever, but where are the 5 other parts of the animals? 6 7 TROOPER BJORK: So through the Chair. 8 Through statute, there are only specific parts that 9 need to be salvaged so if -- unfortunately if they

10 don't salvage some of those other parts, such as the 11 tongue, the liver, then it might be left out in the 12 field and I think, you know, maybe through education of 13 some of the transporters and they can educate the 14 clients of, you know, this is important to the people 15 in this region and they can salvage that and properly 16 take care of it. But by law there's no regulation 17 requiring them. 18 19 MR. COMMACK: Okay. Maybe we'll have 20 to look at that. And maybe the other thing we should 21 look at is the hunting groups need refrigeration out 22 there to keep the meat good. 23 24 Thank you. 25 26 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: And if I may, Joe 27 Dollemolle here..... 28 29 (Teleconference interruption - 30 participants not muted) 31 32 RANGER DOLLEMOLLE: If I may just 33 address that point, I think this group will have a lot 34 to say on that topic, because that very question about 35 proper salvage of meat and donation of meat is 36 something that has been brought up at past meetings and 37 this group, this work group here is actively seeking to 38 address that, just like the Commander said, I think we 39 could continue all offering a lot of input to this 40 because there's a lot of directions we're looking at 41 proceeding in, initially, though, we are looking at a 42 lot of -- to try to work with local donation centers 43 and compile a list and requirements that those donation 44 centers and people in town will have -- so we have 45 folks willing to take some parts of the animals that 46 others won't, how can we educate hunters, especially 47 sport hunters, and commercial hunters out in this area 48 on what they can do with that meat, how they can store 49 that meat in the field and take care of it, and I think 50






1 that comes, not just from us speaking about that from a 2 regulatory side, but understanding local practices and 3 traditional methods. And we are actively pursuing 4 trying to address that from an educational standpoint 5 but also possibly other endeavors as we proceed 6 froward. 7 8 So we are hearing everybody loud and 9 clear that that is a topic of interest and it

10 definitely is to this working group, so we thank you 11 for that. 12 13 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Keep in mind, point 16 of order has been called, so go ahead. 17 18 MR. PATTEE: Just real quick, I do have 19 some experience with some sport hunters in my region 20 and like you said it is the knowledge. A lot of them 21 are very happy to bring back all the body parts that 22 you want. My family in Ambler, when they got the meat, 23 they're like where's all these other parts, and so the 24 next time they took a list and got everything that they 25 wanted. So that was a perfect example of just being 26 able to communicate with them and just letting them 27 know what you want, and they're happy to take 28 everything back for you. 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 35 I wanted to mention briefly, I saw a question from 36 Hannah Loon. 37 38 MS. LOON: (Shakes head negatively) 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: No. And also I was 41 unclear whether we had a motion -- I had to step out 42 for a moment to take a call, was there a motion that 43 was issued and what was the decision on that? 44 45 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 46 47 MS. LOON: Mr. Chair. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 50






1 MS. LOON: I make a motion to Silvano's 2 -- I mean I second the motion to Silvano's motion to 3 write a letter of support to the group here and go on. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: So Hannah you're 8 doing a second on that. 9

10 MS. LOON: Yes. 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. All those in 13 favor of writing a letter of support for the trespass 14 program, and developing a centralized call in center, 15 say aye. 16 17 IN UNISON: Aye. 18 19 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any nays. 20 21 (No opposing votes) 22 23 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, so 24 moved. We'll go ahead and go back to BLM, we'll get 25 back on track again here. 26 27 MS. ATORUK: Thank you. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you guys for 30 all your guys' services, NANA, Troopers, Federal -- and 31 the Federal side. 32 33 Okay. Now we got BLM up. 34 35 MR. HEADMAN: This is Bill Headman. 36 I'm the assistant field manager in the Central Yukon 37 Field Office, or one of the two assistant field 38 managers. 39 40 So I'd like to thank you, Mr. Chair, 41 and the rest of the Council for giving us the 42 opportunity to talk to you this morning about Ambler 43 Road, kind of let you know where we're at in that 44 process and hopefully answer any questions that any of 45 you might have. 46 47 So first off, for anyone who's not 48 aware of some of the details of the project, the Ambler 49 industrial access road is proposed by the Alaska 50






1 Industrial Development and Export Authority, known as 2 AIDEA. And the proposed alignment begins on the Dalton 3 Highway at about Mile Post 161 and would extend 211 4 miles west along the south side of the Brooks Range to 5 the south bank of the Ambler River. The plan would be 6 a phased construction starting with a single lane 7 gravel road and ultimately being a two lane industrial 8 road, not intended to be open to the public. So it 9 would include bridges, material sites, maintenance

10 stations, air strips and related infrastructure. 11 12 Let's see, the land status along the 13 route is about 61 percent State land, about 12 percent 14 Federal -- or actually 12 percent BLM, 12 percent 15 National Park Service and then about 15 percent Alaska 16 Native Corporation lands. 17 18 So the BLM, this office, Central Yukon 19 Field Office is the lead agency for the NEPA, the 20 environmental impact statement. Our cooperators on 21 this are the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the U.S. 22 Coast Guard, Environmental Protection Agency, the 23 Northwest Arctic Borough, State of Alaska DNR, 24 Allakaket Tribal Council, Alatna Traditional Council, 25 Noorvik Native Community and Hughes Traditional 26 Council. Other participating agencies include the 27 National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife 28 Service. 29 30 So to give you an idea of where we're 31 at in this process right. 32 33 We are having internal meetings with 34 cooperators to get ourselves ready to draft, or to 35 prepare a draft environmental impact statement. The -- 36 so we're looking at, we've got actually this week a 37 bunch of presentations in this building, all week long, 38 to give our folks, who are reviewing the potential 39 impacts from this, to give the man idea of what some of 40 the, what we call, cumulative effects, might be. So 41 while we are looking at direct effects from a road, you 42 know, things like ground disturbance and, you know, 43 disturbance to water and wet lands, cumulative impacts 44 would be things like will this encourage the 45 development of mines, additional uses, additional 46 visitors, you know, what are the other impacts that 47 aren't so direct. So that's what we're looking at this 48 week. 49 50






1 The goal is for a published draft EIS 2 in July. And at that time, once that draft comes out, 3 there would be a 45 day review of the draft, and that 4 would be an opportunity for your body to spend some 5 time looking at the draft and to make comments on that. 6 7 I know that there's big interest, for 8 good reason, in the .810 analysis, the potential 9 impacts to subsistence and I will get -- I won't forget

10 about that, I'll cover that, I just wanted to give you 11 just a little bit more background about where we're at 12 before I do that. 13 14 The proposal for a final EIS would be 15 October with a record of decision, basically a sign off 16 on the EIS in November. That's the goal. And these 17 timelines are handed down to us by and large from the 18 Department of Interior. They've got -- under the new 19 Administration we've had a lot of changes with attempts 20 to streamline the process, which means to shorten it 21 and to make the documents a little more user friendly, 22 so it does compress -- it compresses the schedule. I 23 just wanted to make sure you're all aware of that, 24 we're expected to turn these around in about a year. 25 26 So right now we currently have four 27 alternatives that we're looking at. 28 29 No. 1 -- the first would be a no action 30 alternative where the decision is that the BLM would 31 not authorize a right-of-way. 32 33 Alternative A would be to accept the 34 proposed route and that would go through the northern 35 -- or through the Gates of the Arctic National Park and 36 Preserve. 37 38 And then there's a southern option that 39 would be Alternative B, and that kind of goes through 40 the southern part of the National Park Lands, or the 41 Preserve. 42 43 A third option, which is more recent, 44 that's known as Alternative C, would be a diagonal 45 route that leaves the Dalton Highway around Mile Post 46 60 and then kind of runs at a diagonal, the north side 47 of the Ray Mountains, past Hughes, and on over to the 48 vicinity of Kobuk/Ambler area. 49 50






1 So those are the four alternatives, 2 really three, if you don't count the no action. 3 4 Just a note on the NEPA process. 5 6 So that's intended to be a way for us 7 to analyze and identify the potential impacts, 8 environmental, social, the whole range of potential 9 impacts that could come from permitting, things like

10 air quality, subsistence, climate change, fish and 11 aquatic species, critical minerals, invasives, travel 12 management, mining, I mean it goes on and on. These 13 are the things that, right now, we're deep in trying to 14 flesh out and then we need to disclose or to share that 15 information with the public and then give the public 16 and interested parties like yourselves an opportunity 17 to comment on the process and to tell us what you think 18 because that's the cornerstone of NEPA, it's public. 19 We're just trying to make sure that everything gets 20 laid out on the table and everyone has an opportunity 21 to make their voices heard. 22 23 Let's see, there's also the Section 24 .106 process, which is where we'll have to account for 25 impacts to cultural resources, like traditional sites, 26 archeological sites, things like that. That's going to 27 be a large process that's somewhat separate. We've got 28 a lot of interested parties involved in that process 29 and we'll be -- we're kind of kicking that off right 30 now. It will result in its own rather large document, 31 which will protect resources, cultural resources. 32 33 The other sort of side process along 34 this coming out of ANILCA is the Section .810 analysis. 35 and I know that everyone in the room is pretty 36 interested in that along with a lot of other folks in 37 rural Alaska and we appreciate that. 38 39 At this time -- and I will admit, I'm 40 not the .810 expert, that's our biologist, but at this 41 time we don't have any hearings scheduled. They will 42 be scheduled and that's going to happen once the draft 43 comes out and that would be about the middle of summer, 44 around July, then we will be looking at reaching out 45 and setting up hearings and giving folks an opportunity 46 to weigh in on the potential impacts to subsistence 47 resources, if a road were to be authorized. So I can't 48 really share much. I have no information at this time 49 beyond the general, in terms of dates and times and 50






1 locations for those hearings. But you folks will, you 2 know, you're on the list of entities that will be 3 notified as soon as those hearings get scheduled. 4 5 Another thing I guess to mention is 6 consultation, coordination with tribal governments. 7 That also is extremely important to us and to this 8 effort. We have, you know, initiated consultation. We 9 sent out an invitation to 62 tribal governments and 23

10 corporations back in 2017. And the idea at that time 11 was just to open up the discussion and make our tribal 12 government partners and corporation partners aware that 13 we want to talk about this project and the tribal 14 governments and corporations really -- you know, 15 they're free to come to us any time to let us know that 16 they want to talk or they want to have concerns, and 17 we'll keep up with our regular outreach in terms of, 18 you know, trying to keep everybody up to date on where 19 we're at with the process. 20 21 I think that's about it in terms of my 22 presentation and I'm happy to try and answer any 23 questions that anybody in the room might have. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. This is Mike, 26 the Chairman, before we get any other questions, you 27 know, I have some of my own. 28 29 If the EIS is released in July..... 30 31 MR. HEADMAN: A draft, yes. 32 33 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: .....yeah, if it's 34 released in July, the Council meets in the fall, you 35 know, how could the public make comments on this EIS or 36 the .810 analysis. You know I'm surprised we don't 37 have maps here in front of us, that's your guys' 38 failure to do so, you know, we should have maps 39 presented to all of us, you know, if you're going to do 40 a presentation, we need to be able to review all this 41 stuff. 42 43 MR. HEADMAN: Yeah, I totally agree and 44 that's unfortunate that you don't this -- we've got 45 about three of us, the project manager, myself and then 46 the field manager all in these meetings here with 47 Ambler and I was given the opportunity to speak to you 48 and didn't have any sort of maps or anything,or a 49 PowerPoint, but I'll write that down and I'll bring it 50






1 up with -- the project manager is Tina McMaster- 2 Goering, some of you might know her or have worked with 3 her. I will share that and see what we can get out to 4 you folks. 5 6 I'm apologizing for that because I 7 totally agree, you should be able to look at this 8 stuff. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Go ahead, 11 Louie. 12 13 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. This is 14 Commack from Ambler. What is being considered by BLM 15 on the road and where, do you have a report on that? 16 17 MR. HEADMAN: I'm going to have to ask 18 if you could please restate the question, I'm not 19 having a great time hearing the room. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: He couldn't hear you 22 Louie, speak closer to the mic. 23 24 REPORTER: No, Louie, speak a little 25 back from the mic, it's too close and distorting. 26 27 MR. COMMACK: Oh, okay. I'll say that 28 question again. 29 30 What is being considered by BLM on the 31 road and where and everything else that include 32 infrastructure building along the road and possibly 33 corridors to the Kobuk River. What do you have for us? 34 35 MR. HEADMAN: I couldn't hear some of 36 that. If there's a microphone or a way to be closer to 37 the phone that would be great for questions. 38 39 I think I heard -- was the question 40 about whether the road would be private or open to 41 public users. 42 43 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 46 47 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 48 This is Zach Stevenson with Office of Subsistence 49 Management. To reiterate the question that Mr. Commack 50






1 stated twice on the record. His question was, what is 2 being proposed and where? 3 4 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 6 MR. HEADMAN: Okay, thank you, I can 7 answer that. 8 9 So what is being proposed, the action

10 that was proposed by the Alaska Industrial Development 11 and Economic -- let me see here, I want to read it for 12 you so you have it. 13 14 So the Alaska Industrial Development 15 and Export Authority has proposed a road that would 16 leave from the Dalton Highway at about Mile Post 161 17 and it would go west about 211 miles along the south 18 side of the Brooks Range and it would end at the south 19 bank of the Ambler River to provide access up into the 20 Ambler Mining District north of Kobuk and Ambler. 21 22 That's what's been proposed. 23 24 They proposed it as a single lane 25 gravel road that would have heavy industrial traffic, 26 like semi-trucks, equipment, things like that. They 27 would expand it from a single lane, maybe after about 28 seven years, five to seven years of use, expand it to a 29 two lane road. And the mines, if they come into being, 30 would be the ones that pay for this, for the most part. 31 32 So that's what they are wanting. 33 34 And then our job is to look at, okay, 35 are there other alternatives, are there other routes 36 that might be more appropriate so that's why there are 37 alternatives. 38 39 I hope that answers your question. 40 41 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. The other 42 question I have is, what are you planning when you make 43 your considerations on the subsistence, the traditional 44 hunting grounds, the sacred sites? 45 46 MR. HEADMAN: Could the coordinator 47 please repeat like you did on the last question, that 48 was very helpful. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 4 This is Zach Stevenson with the Office of Subsistence 5 Management. 6 7 To restate the questions that were 8 posed a moment ago by Council Member Louie Commack of 9 Ambler. He asked, what are the potential impacts to

10 subsistence and also sacred sites? 11 12 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 14 MR. HEADMAN: Thank you. So we're in 15 the process right now of trying to figure out what the 16 potential impacts are. And both the sacred sites, that 17 would be looked at under this Section .106 process and 18 that involves reaching out to folks in the communities 19 and other interested parties so that we can hear from 20 you where these important places, that's part of what's 21 going to happen here in the coming months. 22 23 And as far as the subsistence goes, you 24 know, we are aware of the importance, the critical 25 importance of subsistence resources, of all subsistence 26 resources in rural Alaska, caribou, the fish, you know, 27 the plants, everything. And so those are things that 28 -- in fact we have a work shop this week on Thursday 29 and Friday to discuss that for two days with some 30 experts and try and get a little more information to 31 sort of get us ready to have meaningful conversations 32 with you folks and other interested folks out along the 33 route during those .810 hearings. 34 35 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. Please keep 36 in mind that traditional hunting grounds that the road 37 will come right into. 38 39 MR. HEADMAN: I'm sorry, was that a 40 followup question. 41 42 MR. STEVENSON: The Chair has stepped 43 out for just a moment, there's a followup question from 44 Member Pattee. 45 46 MR. PATTEE: Hi. My name is Tristen 47 Pattee, I am from Ambler. First of all I want to let 48 everybody know I'm a supporter of the EIS and the EEA 49 process. I do appreciate the effort that's being put 50






1 into this document and there's a lot of people working 2 hard to develop these studies for the public. And I 3 just want to explain that to everybody in my home town 4 in Ambler, and hopefully they're listening on the 5 radio, that this doesn't mean the road is being built, 6 it's just helping them make a decision on the -- it's 7 helping them make a decision on whether or not they 8 want to actually build this road. And I look forward 9 to reading it and explaining it to my community once

10 you get the draft EIS and the EEA out, out there. 11 12 One of the questions I have is, I heard 13 you mention the cooperating agencies and I didn't hear 14 anybody from the Upper Kobuk, is there still time for 15 the tribes to send you a request to actually be a 16 cooperating agency so they can be more involved with 17 this whole process and when would be a good time to 18 actually put the input that we need to add regulations 19 if -- into a permit if this goes through to actually 20 set a time on when we can actually shut down haulage of 21 the road when the migration is coming through a certain 22 area on the road? 23 24 And -- yeah, that's it. 25 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 30 MR. PATTEE: Did you get that? 31 32 MR. HEADMAN: Okay. I heard a question 33 about the cooperating agencies. And whether there was 34 -- were you wondering if it was possible to still 35 become a cooperator on the project? 36 37 MR. PATTEE: Yes. I didn't hear any 38 tribe from the Upper Kobuk that was a cooperating 39 agency and what I'm asking is is there still time for 40 the tribe in Ambler, Shungnak and Kobuk to actually 41 request to be a cooperating agency so they could be 42 more involved with this entire permit process before 43 the draft EIS comes out, and the EEA? And would you 44 please explain, I'm hoping they're listening on the 45 radio how that process would work if they do want to be 46 a cooperating agency. 47 48 MR. HEADMAN: So, yeah, we would love 49 to have conversations with folks in that region. And 50






1 honestly I don't know what conversations have already 2 been had. I know there's been an effort to try and, 3 you know, identify cooperators and to meet with them 4 and get agreements in place. I don'tthink it's ever -- 5 well, I can't say never, but it's not too late to have 6 those conversations. So that would be an issue that 7 the project manager, Tina McMaster-Goering would follow 8 up with, whether it was, you know, folks in Kobuk, 9 Shungnak or any of the villages, they could just

10 contact her and tell her that they're interested in 11 becoming a cooperator and we could definitely have that 12 conversation. 13 14 MR. PATTEE: Okay, thank you. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Louie. 17 18 MR. COMMACK: Yeah, thank you. This is 19 Louie again. Will this Council have time to review and 20 make comments on this, what you're talking about, the 21 proposal, the .810, the..... 22 23 (Teleconference interruption - 24 participants not muted) 25 26 MR. STEVENSON: You need to state that. 27 28 MR. VIVEIROS: Mr. Chair. 29 30 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 31 Silvano. 32 33 MR. VIVEIROS: Can you have somebody on 34 the phone turn their radio down. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. We 41 have a lot of feedback right now, we're hearing an echo 42 on the teleconference. If you're not speaking right 43 now on the phone would you please mute your phones so 44 that we don't get an echo. 45 46 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 47 48 MR. HEADMAN: I'm not sure if I missed 49 a question there. 50






1 MR. COMMACK: Could you repeat that. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 4 Responding to BLM, I heard a question from Member 5 Commack and I wanted to just clarify his question. 6 7 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead.

10 11 MR. COMMACK: My question was will this 12 Council have a chance to review the comments? 13 14 MR. HEADMAN: You'll have to restate 15 that, there's some feedback on the line, I can't -- 16 it's not clear. 17 18 (Teleconference interruption - 19 participants not muted) 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 22 23 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 24 25 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair, to 26 BLM. The question from Member Commack, as I understand 27 it, was, will the public have an opportunity..... 28 29 MS. ATORUK: The Council. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: Will the Council have 32 anopportunity toreview thecomments andthe.810 analysis. 33 34 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 35 36 MR. HEADMAN: So the .810, let me see 37 if I have a timeline here. I believe that will be 38 concurrent with -- so prior to the final, let me check 39 here. As far as the timing of public review, consider 40 that the hearings would be in the July/August timeframe 41 and then the findings would be published, so I would -- 42 if I was to hazard a guess, I'd say it's a September 43 timeframe for public comment on the .810 findings. 44 45 MR. COMMACK: This is Louie again. We 46 meet in October. I would think that we need to meet -- 47 this Council need to meet before then to start to put a 48 proposal together or evaluation of the report. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: You know it kind of 2 sounds like we need something to review this .810 3 analysis and EIS, my suggestion is we create a working 4 group and that would consist of all of us Board members 5 to be able to sit down and review and discuss the EIS 6 and the .810 analysis. You know, this will call for 7 another meeting. We need to see if we want it before 8 or right after the July deadline. 9

10 Do I have a motion on the floor to 11 create a working group to review the EIS and .810 12 analysis. 13 14 MR. COMMACK: So moved. Commack from 15 Ambler, I move that we create a working group to look 16 at the EIS and .810. 17 18 MS. LOON: I second to Louie's motion. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Hannah 21 seconded. All those in favor say aye. 22 23 IN UNISON: Aye. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any nays. 26 27 (No opposing votes) 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, it's 30 approved to create a working group to be able to review 31 the EIS and the .810 analysis, either prior or after 32 the July deadline. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Point of order, Mr. 35 Chair. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: Just for my own 40 clarification, through the Chair. My understanding is 41 that the working group would consist of all members of 42 the Board; is that correct? 43 44 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, because it 45 would be considered -- it would be an out of cycle 46 meeting, I think that, you know, all of us here should 47 make up that working group to be able to review the EIS 48 and the .810 analysis and to look over every single 49 little detail to insure that, you know, our subsistence 50






1 culture, rights and, you know, we can still harvest 2 these animals without any impact. 3 4 Go ahead, Silvano. 5 6 MR. VIVEIROS: Zach, I guess the 7 question would be for you. Do we have any special 8 meetings that we're allowed to have annually, you know 9 what I mean, like this group, our Council, something

10 that's not scheduled? 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 15 Ordinarily, Pookie, we meet twice a year, typically 16 late winter, early spring and in the fall, usually 17 around the October/November time. Because of the 18 motion that was just put forward, I need some 19 clarification about how might we handle that. And I 20 believe that there is one other Council in Alaska that 21 has done that already, there's a precedent, a precedent 22 set to do that, and I would like some clarification 23 from my colleagues about how that might be addressed. 24 25 Does that answer your question? 26 27 MR. VIVEIROS: Yeah, I just didn't know 28 if we were allowed to have another special meeting, or 29 you know what I mean, I didn't know, but, yeah, you 30 answered it. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 33 34 35 This is Pippa 36 37 MS. LOON: Could you please speak 38 louder. 39 40 MS. KENNER: Yes. So the authority to 41 set up another meeting isn't with us, so we're going to 42 be contacting people right now to seeking permission 43 for that so we might have to kind of spill over into 44 tomorrow on this topic. So..... 45 46 (Teleconference interruption - 47 participants not muted) 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 50

MS. KENNER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Kenner with OSM.






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: My apologies, Pippa. 4 We're getting a lot of echo on the phone right now and 5 we're having trouble hearing the speaker. Would those 6 who are on the teleconference please hit star six to 7 mute their phone. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 MS. KENNER: So to further answer -- 12 this is Pippa again. So to further answer the 13 question, yes, from time to time there is a 14 teleconference meeting that might occur, or maybe more 15 correctly stating, an extension of this meeting, so at 16 the end of the day tomorrow you might just recess and 17 then come together again. 18 19 Now, for the purposes of the working 20 group, regardless if it's the Council as a whole, or 21 certain members of the Council, the working group will 22 come together in a meeting that is not necessarily 23 public for the purposes of gathering information. So 24 Staff can be present, you can ask for certain people to 25 be on the teleconference with you so you can ask them 26 questions. In this case you would want to go through, 27 I think, what's the EES [sic] or EIS, and then when the 28 work of the working group is completed, then they come 29 back together again as the Council on a public 30 teleconference and then make the decision about what 31 those comments will be. So the working group informs 32 the Council and then the Council will make that 33 decision on the record about what comments to send to 34 the agency. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 41 Through the Chair. And I want to thank you, Pippa, I 42 just want to make certain, Silvano, that that responded 43 to your question, from what I understand, shared by Ms. 44 Kenner, the Council, through its working group, would 45 help to gather information for the Board, for the 46 Council on the EIS, the environmental impact statement, 47 and by extension the .810 analysis, and then as I 48 understand it, a meeting outside of the normal cycle, a 49 teleconference would occur, publicly, so that the 50






1 Council could share that information and adopt what 2 position they may have on that issue. 3 4 Does that answer your question, Sir? 5 6 MR. VIVEIROS: Yes, it does, thank you. 7 8 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else have any 9 more questions.

10 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody. Go ahead, 15 Hannah. 16 17 MS. LOON: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, I 18 have forgotten my question. 19 20 Thank you. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Why don't we 23 go ahead and break for lunch and we'll continue on with 24 this BLM, we will come back from lunch at 1:00 p.m. 25 26 Okay. 27 28 Going on lunch until 1:00 p.m. 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: For those on the 35 teleconference, we're recessing now and we'll be 36 reconvening at 1:00 o'clock. We're taking lunch and 37 we'll be back in just under an hour. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 (Off record) 42 43 (On record) 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I'd like to call the 46 meeting back to order, we are currently on BLM. 47 48 MR. STEVENSON: No, law enforcement -- 49 pardon me, Western Arctic Caribou Herd report. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I thought we were on 2 BLM -- we left off on BLM. 3 4 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Because that's where 7 we..... 8 9 MR. STEVENSON: We had the Bering Sea

10 Western Interior..... 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: No, I don't 13 think..... 14 15 MR. STEVENSON: You're correct. You're 16 correct, Mike. 17 18 (Pause) 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, Zach. 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 25 This is Zach Stevenson with OSM. I just had a quick 26 housekeeping request. If those who are on 27 teleconference line, if you are not speaking, if you 28 would please press star six to mute your phone when 29 you're not speaking. 30 31 And as a quick reminder of our location 32 on the agenda right now, the Chair has requested that 33 we do -- complete the BLM update. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 So we will have that momentarily, Tom 38 Sparks with the BLM Nome Field Office is just grabbing 39 some additional items, he'll be back momentarily. 40 41 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: And if we're back on 44 KOTZ, I'd like to, you know, shout out the number 1- 45 877-638-8165 and the pass code is 9060609. If you have 46 any questions or comments or would like to -- for 47 suggestions, do not hesitate to call. To not hesitate 48 to call in just to even listen to our meeting. 49 50






1 (Pause) 2 3 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 6 7 MS. LOON: Enoch Mitchell is here. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, Enoch, he's was

10 at 10:30 for the record. I'd like to also -- since we 11 haven't started with the BLM report yet, I'd like to go 12 ahead and have Enoch give his Council member report for 13 Noatak. 14 15 MR. MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 17 Okay. 18 19 This year we had a lot of snow and the 20 fishing, the fishing is good. We have thin ice in a 21 lot of years. It's been melting, melting, the river 22 has been melting rather than breaking up a lot of 23 places and our trail is not too good to go through the 24 river, so we stick to the flats. 25 26 We had a lot of caribou behind Noatak 27 this winter, they're kind of over to the coast to the 28 (indiscernible) area. The caribou this fall was pretty 29 good, getting better and better with the closure. That 30 closure really helped the people get their caribou. 31 32 We have a lot of predators. 33 34 We had some hunters get some moose but 35 (indiscernible) wolverines so -- otherwise everything's 36 good, we got a lot of daylight now and a lot of people 37 are fishing. It's good to have fresh fish. 38 39 Taikuu. 40 41 That's all I got. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you, Enoch. 44 45 Are we ready for the BLM report to 46 continue on. Go ahead, Zach. 47 48 MR. STEVENSON: Thomas Sparks is still 49 out of the room, he should be back momentarily. 50






1 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 3 (Pause) 4 5 MS. LOON: Mr. Chair. Are we on Item 6 11H. 7 8 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: No, we're on 12 -- go 9 ahead, Zach.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 12 Paniyayluk, we're under -- we're under new business, 13 Item 11, Western Arctic Caribou -- pardon me, BLM's 14 completion of the Bering Sea Western Interior Resource 15 Management Plan EIS, and that was moved from 12D, 12 16 Delta to new business, so that will -- after we 17 complete that item that will wrap up the BLM's report. 18 19 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: We'll go ahead and 22 have a little bit of a recess until Sparks comes back 23 into the conference room. 24 25 (Pause) 26 27 MR. STEVENSON: For those listening on 28 the teleconference, this is Zach Stevenson with Office 29 of Subsistence Management. We are waiting for Mr. Tom 30 Sparks with the BLM Nome Field Office to return. When 31 he returns we will be completing the BLM's 32 presentation, and that presentation will address the 33 Bering Sea Western Interior Resource Management Plan, 34 environmental impact statement, the BSWI RMP EIS. 35 36 (Pause) 37 38 39 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 40 41 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 42 George Pappas, the State liaison, with the Office of 43 Subsistence Management has offered to provide the Board 44 of Fisheries update while we're waiting for Mr. Sparks 45 to return, if the Council wishes. 46 47 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 50






1 MR. PAPPAS: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. 2 George Pappas, Office of Subsistence Management, State 3 subsistence liaison. 4 5 And they had a long series of Board of 6 Fish and Board of Game meetings this last winter and 7 I'll fill in some time while we're waiting for Mr. 8 Sparks. 9

10 At the statewide meeting, and the 11 statewide meeting took place there in March, they did 12 have a proposal that was passed, it was interesting, 13 that it impacts everybody statewide. The initial 14 proposal asked to prohibit the intentional waste or 15 destruction of subsistence caught fish. 16 17 So the response, I think, from all the 18 agencies it's illegal to waste or destroy subsistence 19 caught fish. 20 21 And the concern was, as it came out in 22 the committee process, well, there are exceptions to 23 that and so they developed new language, and that new 24 language for the waste of fish, it's a defense, if, 25 your fish -- the fish -- excuse me,it says here: 26 27 It is a defense to charge that the 28 failure to salvage the fish was due to circumstances 29 beyond control of the person catching. 30 31 One example is the theft of a fish. 32 You fill up your smokehouse and someone steals it and 33 they throw those fish away, who's liable. Well, in the 34 accordance of the new law, is you're not liable, 35 whoever steals it is. 36 37 The second example that they provided 38 was, unanticipated weather conditions or acts of God. 39 If you're out in the field with your fish and you're 40 trying to come back into town and it starts blowing 41 150, or what have you, an act of God, or weather causes 42 massive spoilage, everybody here knows spring and fall 43 is not like it used to be for hanging your fish, it can 44 go bad and what do you do. Well, if you're lucky and 45 you live in town or near town, you have a refrigerator 46 or freezer, that's different than if you're in fish 47 camp and it gets to 55 degrees and starts raining for a 48 week, that can spoil your fish. 49 50






1 The third example that was adopted by 2 the Board of Fisheries is the unavoidable loss in the 3 field to a wild animal. So you're out in fish camp and 4 a bear gets in your smoker and eats half of them and 5 makes a big mess, are you responsible for that waste of 6 fish. That's just another exemption that the Board of 7 Fish, through the State Troopers provided. 8 9 So there are -- if you do have fish and

10 you're in a situation and they do go bad for one of 11 these three reasons, if it was stolen, unanticipated 12 weather, or acts of God, or in the field by a wild 13 animal, then you don't have to worry about being cited 14 for that. 15 16 So that's something new statewide. 17 18 And I'm looking at the rest of the 19 statewide proposals that were adopted, well, the State 20 now has a definition for bow and arrow for fishing, 21 archery fishing, we don't have that in our regulations. 22 If you're interested, in a couple of years, someone can 23 put in a proposal, it's unnecessary but you could if 24 you wanted to. 25 26 And that covers the Board of Fisheries 27 process in your area. 28 29 The Arctic Yukon Kuskokwim area was on 30 cycle this year, but the majority of the proposals were 31 -- you know the northern pike issues, Tanana drainage, 32 some of the Yukon subsistence fisheries, some of the 33 Kuskokwim subsistence fisheries and the Kuskokwim 34 commercial fisheries. 35 36 There was some Norton Sound proposals. 37 38 But for this area I'm not seeing 39 specific proposals that would impact your fisheries 40 besides those statewide ones I mentioned, so it appears 41 to me no one from this region put in proposals for 42 local fisheries, to that process. 43 44 And that's what I have for the 45 statewide fisheries and the AYK fisheries meeting they 46 had this winter. 47 48 I believe I can stand down and pass the 49 torch. Thank you, Mr. Chair for giving me a chance to 50






1 interject. 2 3 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you. 4 5 MR. SWAN: I have a question for you. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: State your name for 8 the record. 9

10 MR. SWAN: Reppe Swan from Kivalina. I 11 have a question for you. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 14 Reppe. 15 16 MR. SWAN: How about (indiscernible - 17 distorted) catch and release, I didn't hear anything 18 about catch and release on the fishing (indiscernible - 19 distorted) in our rivers the sporthunters do a lot of 20 fishing and they do a lot of catch and release and here 21 around (indiscernible - distorted) we find a lot of 22 fish with puss on their mouth and we would appreciate 23 it if you guys would enforce that also, catch and 24 release. 25 26 MR. PAPPAS: Through the Chair. Yes, I 27 understand the concern for catch and release, it sounds 28 like handling mortality for your area. I'm looking 29 through the 120, 130 proposals that were addressed this 30 year by the Board of Fisheries and they did not have a 31 proposal to address catch and release in your area. 32 33 If you're interested in having a 34 proposal to the Board of Fish to change that, it's 35 going to be another three year cycle so in two years 36 we'll have the opportunity to put in proposals to the 37 Board of Fish to change local regulations. And for the 38 Federal Subsistence process it'll be, I believe, next 39 spring would be the deadline to put in proposals to 40 address the fisheries in Federal public waters. 41 42 It didn't answer your question, but the 43 bottom line is they did not address it this year at the 44 Board of Fisheries, proposals weren't on deck. 45 46 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 47 48 MR. SWAN: Okay, thank you. 49 50






1 MR. PAPPAS: I appreciate you building 2 the Federal public record by stating that, thank you. 3 4 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 7 8 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 9 This is Zach Stevenson with the Office of Subsistence

10 Management. This question is for Mr. Pappas. 11 12 Responding to the question that Mr. 13 Swan had just shared via teleconference, could you help 14 us understand how in the future, you said three years 15 from now, that members of the public, residents of 16 Kivalina or members of the Council, if they were 17 interested in submitting fishery proposals, how they 18 would do that. 19 20 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 22 MR. PAPPAS: Through the Chair. That 23 is one of my primary portions of my job is to work with 24 the Board of Fisheries and the Board of Game 25 representing the Federal Subsistence process, including 26 this Council. 27 28 If you want to see a change in 29 regulations, both State or Federal for fisheries, you 30 need to contact Zach, your coordinator, and we'll work 31 through him to synthesize, or to write -- help you 32 author your proposal, give you direction to navigate 33 the process, because it is complex, we're talking about 34 two different processes here, one's the State and one's 35 the Federal, so under the State regulations, they meet 36 every three years per region, and the Arctic Yukon 37 Kuskokwim region just completed this winter and it'll 38 be another three years until it meets again, but in two 39 years they'll have a call for proposals, and at that 40 time they'll be accepting proposals, but that doesn't 41 stop you from contacting Zach right now and we can be 42 prepared ahead of time and have the documents ready to 43 go when that time comes up. 44 45 For the Federal Subsistence process, 46 one year is wildlife, one year is fish, so this year 47 they're making decisions on fish and next year they'll 48 be making decisions on wildlife so it'll be a total of 49 two years until they come back to the fisheries issues, 50






1 so next winter, next spring, we'll be accepting 2 proposals to the Federal Subsistence Board. That, 3 again, is, work with Zach, your coordinator, and he 4 works with his team, which includes -- I'm on his team, 5 to make sure that your question, your proposal is 6 synthesized correctly and it's understood and we get it 7 to make sure we meet the bureaucratic needs and 8 processes so we'll get that submitted on time to the 9 right folks.

10 11 So work with Zach and we'll work in 12 that direction. 13 14 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further 17 questions. 18 19 Hannah. 20 21 MS. LOON: Thank you for addressing 22 that on waste. We do a lot of setting nets under the 23 ice for whitefish and some of them get iced when you 24 can no longer retrieve your net because it froze and 25 then it will flow down the river after ice break and 26 you can find these little floats floating around on the 27 river and they're there but were not retrieved. 28 29 How would you define the fine on that? 30 31 MR. PAPPAS: Through the Chair. 32 Council Member Hannah. That's a strict enforcement 33 question. And we have, fortunately, thank you very 34 much for being here, we do have an enforcement officer 35 who can address your question. You question is, you're 36 fishing with your gillnet under the ice for whitefish, 37 it freezes in, and the net gets torn up and swept down 38 river in time with the ice where you can't control it, 39 your question is what would happen with that. 40 41 Through the Chair, if it's okay we have 42 an enforcement officer who can help with that question. 43 44 TROOPER BJORK: Thank you very much. 45 Scott Bjork, Wildlife Troopers. 46 47 Particular in that, it just depends on 48 entirely the circumstances. There are, at times, that 49 we understand if you're not able to retrieve it in a 50






1 timely manner, then we can deal with that on a case by 2 case basis. Other times, if it was deemed that it was, 3 you know, depending on the totality of the 4 circumstances, if there was -- somebody didn't retrieve 5 it in time due to negligence, then I guess we can deal 6 with that. 7 8 It's hard to answer directly until, 9 depending on the totality of the circumstances.

10 11 If somebody was cited, I don't think 12 there is a strict -- there is not a fine schedule in 13 the -- usually for like some of the subsistence things, 14 it would be, you would have to show up to the court and 15 then the judge kind of determines what the fine would 16 be for that. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other questions. 19 20 (No comments) 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, we'll 23 go ahead and go to BLM. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 MR. SPARKS: Chairman Kramer, thanks so 28 much and congratulations to you. 29 30 Those of you who don't know me, I'm Tom 31 Sparks, I'm stationed in Nome, I work for the Bureau of 32 Land Management and I work for the Anchorage Field 33 Office. I've been in Nome about 40 years, raised four 34 children, got eight grandkids. Married a gal from 35 Savoonga, been married, we're in our three decades now, 36 so pretty familiar with some of the issues that you 37 guys are dealing with and I appreciate that very much. 38 39 I got sitting next to me, Walker Gusse, 40 he's our law enforcement officer for Anchorage Field 41 Office in case there's direct questions that may come 42 up that we need his expertise with. 43 44 I wanted to tell you about our last 45 land use plan in the state, it's the largest one that 46 we've been working on for a number of years. We 47 actually started it in 2010 with a mineral occurrence 48 review and we started in earnest in 2013. 49 50






1 But before I do that, I wanted to tell 2 you where we're at with Squirrel River because we're 3 getting closer and I know it's been on this Council's 4 mind and it's certainly been on mine. I've been in 5 charge of that project for a little over a year and a 6 half now, and last April we went out and held some 7 scoping meetings like the Fairbanks office did. So 8 we're about ready to release a public draft. It's my 9 hope we can get that out on short order. As you know

10 we had some issues with the government shutdown this 11 year, it kind of put us all back a little bit so I 12 apologize for that. It was my hope that we would have 13 a draft out for the public, we could present that to 14 the Board today but we are a little bit behind. 15 16 The Squirrel River, we're going to have 17 a range of alternatives like Bill Headman was 18 discussing with the Ambler Project. 19 20 So our preferred alternative has some 21 strict guidelines on terms of the numbers of the guides 22 and outfitters and the aircraft use as well as the 23 numbers. And so we're hoping to get that out to the 24 public. Normally with an environmental assessment we 25 do a 30 day comment period but we're hoping to extend 26 that and we're going to go our state office and try to 27 get some support for that. So this coming spring, I 28 plan on coming out, hopefully next month, if it gets 29 delayed about because of the state office review it 30 might be June before I get out, but we do plan on going 31 out to Kiana and Noorvik again and here in Kotzebue and 32 we held meetings in Anchorage and Fairbanks as well. 33 So we're making good progress. I know it's been a long 34 haul but your patience is very much appreciated on 35 that. 36 37 So the other thing that we had 38 mentioned, I think this is my fourth presentation for 39 you folks, we've mentioned the Bering Sea Western 40 Interior, and I brought a larger map that shows the 41 general area there and I brought a little hand out map 42 for the Board here and I highlighted the area that's 43 within Game Management Unit 23, which you folks are 44 purview to, it's the hatched mark there. 45 46 The land use planning with BLM, it's 47 really a high level land use plan. It's kind of an 48 allocative issue in terms of what we may allow or what 49 we may not allow. There are a lot of areas that BLM 50






1 touches on. And I do have some other maps in a tube in 2 the back room that I'll leave with Zach that kind of 3 explain the different alternatives that are there, and 4 your handout also has those as well. 5 6 The public comment period is until June 7 13th, and so it's a very important date. We have a 8 website that you can go to that's in the packet that I 9 passed out to you folks that you can send comments in

10 directly as individuals, or if you'd like to as a 11 Council you're certainly welcome to and we would 12 welcome that as well. 13 14 The area that is here within Unit 23, 15 it's about 780,000 acres. It's the headwaters of the 16 Tag River and just north of the Kateel River. 17 18 And our land use plan has four 19 alternatives and it's similar to what Bill Headman was 20 talking about as far as the Ambler Road, the four 21 alternatives. 22 23 The first one is Alternative A, which 24 is to keep our existing land use plan, and that was 25 done in the early '80s and it didn't really have a lot 26 of specific things like we do now in our land use 27 plans, so it's very outdated. 28 29 Alternative B is a more conservative 30 approach towards land management and resource use. 31 32 Alternative C is our preferred 33 alternative. 34 35 And Alternative D is the more resource 36 oriented use alternative. 37 38 And I just wanted to briefly go over 39 some of the issues and tell you about some of the 40 alternatives, the A, B, C, D, not to try to make it too 41 bureaucratic or complicated, but, again, I try to focus 42 in on just the Tag River area if you will. 43 44 So one is the areas that we looked at 45 in the land use plan is high value watersheds, and 46 there has been not one identified in this area on 47 Alternatives B, C, and D. 48 49 Visual resource management is another 50






1 one that we look at and we came up with a Class II and 2 Class IV with the Tag River area, and one alternative, 3 Alternative D has a Class IV. And the lower the number 4 for visual resource, what we try to do is try to not 5 impact the visual impacts to a particular use. So you 6 might want to think about a road or a pipeline or 7 something to that effect that would change the 8 landscape view, if you will. I've ran into that with 9 communication sites as well because of the visual view.

10 11 Another impact is the area of critical 12 environmental concern, we call them ACECs. And 13 Alternative B, it does designate this area, and 14 Alternative C does not, but it has some visual resource 15 management prescriptions, and Alternative D does not. 16 17 Now, there's timber, Alternative B 18 would close this area to any commercial timber, and 19 Alternative C is the preferred, it would be a case by 20 case sale, and we would have discretion as to whether 21 or not we would allow that. And Alternative D is open 22 to commercial timber ops. 23 24 With grazing, and there we mean 25 reindeer grazing, Alternative B would be close, 26 Alternative C would be open on a case by case, and 27 Alternative D would potentially open the entire area. 28 29 Locatable minerals, those are kind of 30 the flashy metals, we call them gold, silver, something 31 that you locate on the ground. B would withdraw that 32 area for locatable minerals and C and D would keep that 33 open for locatable minerals. 34 35 And salable is sand gravel, primarily 36 that we're dealing with in our region anyway. B would 37 close that area, Alternative B, Alternative C would be 38 open on a case by case, and Alternative D would be 39 open. 40 41 And for leasable, which is oil and gas, 42 basically, Alternative B would close it, Alternative C 43 would open it with no surface occupancy, and 44 Alternative D would open it with standard operating 45 procedures. 46 47 And with lands and reality issues, 48 Alternative B there would be withdrawals proposed for 49 locatables, Alternative D would revoke those 50






1 withdrawals, Alternative B for rights-of-way and 2 permits, would be a right-of-way avoidance area. 3 Alternative C the same, right-of-way avoidance. And 4 Alternative D would be a case by case. 5 6 And for recreation, it would be an 7 extensive recreation management area, unlike, say the 8 Squirrel River, which is a special recreation 9 management area.

10 11 And then for travel, which is ATV use, 12 UTV, it's a limited designation and ATVs would have a 13 1,500 pound gross vehicle weight and UTVs would have a 14 2,000 pound gross vehicle weight. And for summer 15 subsistence uses would be allowed. And for casual use 16 it'd be the same weight restrictions but you'd stay on 17 existing trails that BLM would identify. 18 19 So those are the new ones. That's a 20 lot of information. Like I said, we've been working on 21 this for a number of years. But it helps guide BLM and 22 we're, you know, a multi-use agency so we allow a lot 23 of activities on the lands that we manage, but the land 24 use plans help guide that activity for the future. 25 26 I've been involved in three of them, 27 these land use plans, and they're generally good for 28 like 20 years. So we try to make it broad enough to 29 allow for change over time. 30 31 So with that I'd welcome any questions 32 that you may have. I know it's a lot of information 33 and, again, I have a lot of maps on these alternatives 34 that show in graphic detail and your packet also 35 contains some of that information. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Is there any 38 questions from the Council. 39 40 41 (No comments) 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody. 44 45 46 (No comments) 47 48 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, do you 49 still have any more -- or go ahead, Hannah. 50






1 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. Thank you 2 very much for your report. Louie -- Member Louie 3 addressed awhile ago on the Ambler mining -- Ambler 4 Road, because we're having these issues with hunting on 5 the land -- on the BLM lands in Squirrel River. He 6 might be concerned and I am concerned if BLM has 7 jurisdiction on the road area, a lot of hunters might 8 come in, and I got a note at the fall meeting, I asked 9 BLM about motorized vehicle access to the Squirrel

10 River in BLM's Squirrel River planning process. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MR. SPARKS: Through the Chair, Mr. 15 Kramer. 16 17 Hannah, we did talk about that at the 18 last meeting as far as ATV use, and specifically for 19 the Squirrel River, one of the alternatives that we're 20 coming up with is we would limit the guides to using 21 off highway vehicles. So that's coming out in an 22 alternative. 23 24 As far as like the bigger projects, 25 like a major road, one of the alternatives in the land 26 and realty portion is for a right-of-way avoidance 27 area. So that's one of the alternatives for the Tag 28 River area. So for us, what that would mean, if 29 there's a practical alternative a proponent would have 30 to go elsewhere, that's what it means, a right-of-way 31 avoidance area. So we'd look to the land use plans to 32 help guide us as to whether or not we could even move 33 forward with a proposals. So all the proposals that 34 come before us, and as members of the public come in, 35 companies come in and request use of Federal public 36 lands, so we look to the existing laws and regulations 37 and then we look at our land use plans, and so those 38 uses have to be in conformance with our land use plans. 39 40 MS. LOON: Thank you. 41 42 MR. SPARKS: You're quite welcome. 43 Thank you for bringing that up. 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other questions. 46 47 MR. STEVENSON: Brittany Sweeney, 48 Brittany Sweeney. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead 2 Brittany Sweeney. 3 4 MS. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5 Tom, one of the things I appreciate about these 6 meetings is that the other agencies get to hear updates 7 from the other agencies too. So now I learned about 8 these alternatives and I thought I might talk to some 9 folks in Selawik who are interested and might want to

10 give comments. But can you tell me a little bit more 11 about what the comments might need to look like, like 12 you outlined alternatives A, B, C or D, but then you 13 said there's some different things in each one. So 14 when people make a comment, do they need to just pick 15 one of those options like say, I like B, or can they 16 say, I want you to have some of this and some of that 17 and, yeah. 18 19 MR. SPARKS: Thank you for that, 20 because it's really important and I probably am remiss 21 in not stating that, is that, what's important is you 22 give us some of your rationale for the public record. 23 24 So it is good to pick an alternative, 25 it's kind of a like a smorgasbord when you're going out 26 to lunch, we got all these different alternatives 27 around and some of them may be much better than others. 28 So if you see one you like, to let us know which one 29 you do like, and then why you like it. Or if you don't 30 like it, tell us -- inform us why. 31 32 MS. SWEENEY: Thank you. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 37 38 MR. STEVENSON: Thanks, Mike. Through 39 the Chair. This question is for Tom Sparks with BLM. 40 If I understand you correctly, Tom, you're helping us 41 understand that if the public would like to submit 42 comments to BLM on some of these alternatives -- if I 43 understand you correctly it's not to just say I like 44 this or I don't like this, but why. 45 46 Can you help me understand why that 47 information is needed and how that information might be 48 used. 49 50






1 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 3 MR. SPARKS: Well, it helps us to have 4 a why is because we get a lot of -- through our 5 scoping, when we come out and first hold meetings, we 6 did this in 2013, we came up with a range of 7 alternatives, we took them back out to the public in 8 2015, most of the villages that we went to were 9 primarily down in the YK and Yukon area, there's some

10 mineral potential down there that really is not around 11 up here as far as the BLM managed lands, so we kind of 12 made an emphasis on those areas, McGrath, and so forth. 13 So the reason it's helpful is because we get so many 14 public comments and different views on how BLM should 15 manage the public lands, so it's all of our lands, it's 16 the United States public, so we like to be able to see 17 what may come out of ideas that we've come up with to 18 make sure we're hearing people right and so we've tried 19 to do our best in the public scoping comments that we 20 got in 2013 and 2015, to come out with a draft of 21 alternatives. 22 23 So that's why it helps us so much, 24 Zach. 25 26 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other further 27 comments from this Council. 28 29 (No comments) 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, do you 32 guys have anything further. 33 34 MR. SPARKS: Like I said, I'll leave 35 those maps here. The packet, it does have the website 36 you can go to and how you can make comments. There's 37 graphs that explain the different alternatives. 38 Sometimes it's a little difficult to understand those 39 and that's why I kind of wanted to verbally go over 40 what some of the alternatives are for you, and 41 particularly give you a map that's a little closer to 42 home that you can take home with you and look at. 43 44 But I'll be around, so if there's any 45 other questions that may come up or at a break or, you 46 know, you want to talk individually, more than welcome. 47 48 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, you know, my 49 concern was like, you know, if they're going to do this 50






1 road, you know, will we have certain agencies have 2 roadblocks at certain areas, like Park Service, if it 3 crosses a little bit of Park lands, or BLM lands, are 4 you guys going to provide people at those posts to be 5 able to secure -- to be security on the road, road 6 security for trespassers and so on. 7 8 MR. SPARKS: Chairman Kramer. I 9 haven't been involved in that Ambler project and I

10 don't know, you know, what the future's going to hold 11 with that. I know we're early on in the process and 12 certainly that might be something that, you know, you'd 13 want to comment on as far as, you know, being 14 industrial use versus public access use. I know it's 15 been brought up, I have attended some meetings on it 16 but I haven't been directly involved in that process. 17 18 Our Central Yukon Field Office is in 19 charge of that because the proposed road starts in 20 their field office so generally what happens with BLM 21 is when a proposal comes in to us, if it goes through 22 different field offices, it's the one where it starts, 23 they're the ones who manages the project, if you will, 24 so that's why it's out of the Central Yukon Field 25 Office and not out of the Anchorage Field Office. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, because I'm 28 just wondering who's going to, you know, be providing 29 security, you know, it is part of the Borough, it's 30 part of NANA, it's part of all three agencies, you 31 know, the Park Service, State and Fish and Wildlife -- 32 or Fish and Game, yeah, that this road will be possibly 33 going through,it would be interesting to make sure that 34 we do have some type of road security on there. 35 Because I know once this road comes into place, every 36 village is going to be -- we want to be connected, we 37 want to be connected, and we're going to have to have 38 all these fingers of roads connected to that road from 39 the villages. You know, whether it has an impact, I 40 most likely think they will and it may be a dramatic 41 impact on our subsistence resources. But just as long 42 as we have the ability to be able to have that road 43 secured, you know, to insure that we don't have people 44 just wandering into the region or the Game Management 45 Unit. 46 47 MR. SPARKS: Yes, very good comment. 48 Appreciate that, Mike. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 2 3 MS. LOON: Thank you very much for your 4 presentation. Since the beginning when I first joined 5 RAC there was hardly any BLM participation and now that 6 you're here it's very informative to hear from you 7 about Squirrel area, that's very important to us and I 8 would like to make a friendly suggestion to include 9 Selawik because Selawik, Kiana and Noorvik are both

10 related and what happens in Squirrel River affects 11 Selawik too. 12 13 Thank you very much. 14 15 MR. SPARKS: Through the Chair. Thank 16 you, Hannah, for that comment. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I would like to know 19 more about, you know, under Section .810 of ANILCA, you 20 know, what -- I'd like to find out what kind of 21 methodology, you know, findings, analysis, you know, we 22 need all that kind of information as to what and how 23 it'll impact on our subsistence way of life with that 24 road coming in. That's a very, very necessary 25 important piece of information that we need to know, 26 how bad will this road affect our subsistence resources 27 and how long will it -- you know, what will be done to 28 protect it if this road is put into place. Because 29 they need to be open to understand, you know, our 30 subsistence needs. 31 32 And I know this is going to be a big 33 State thing because, you know, it's -- most of it is 34 State funded, if I recall, I'm not too sure how much of 35 it is Federally funded but, you know, an .810 analysis 36 will need to be addressed and will need to be reviewed 37 by us sometime soon. 38 39 Any further questions by the Council. 40 41 Go ahead, Louie. 42 43 (Teleconference interruption - 44 participants not muted) 45 46 MR. COMMACK: Earlier I asked the 47 question or I thought I brought up tribal consultation. 48 It seems to me that every time BLM or Park Service come 49 to the village for consultation, the decisions are 50






1 already made. I would appreciate if you do the scoping 2 meetings, that you work along with the tribes or 3 corporations or whoever, the public that there's a 4 straightforward answer on the consultation process. 5 6 And the other question I had earlier 7 was what is being considered by BLM on the road and 8 where, we need answers. 9

10 MR. SPARKS: Through the Chair. Louie, 11 I think Bill Headman tried to give an answer to that as 12 far as some alternatives coming up. And, again, I 13 haven't been directly involved in that project so I 14 know that they do plan on coming out with a draft and 15 it sounded like it was this fall from what I understood 16 in the testimony that I heard from Mr. Headman. So I 17 just encourage the Board to stay on top of that and if 18 I can share of anything in person, I certainly will. 19 20 MR. COMMACK: Okay, a followup. The 21 comments and the testimonies all across Alaska, the 22 major concern is subsistence on the proposed road and 23 I'm sure you're aware of that. 24 25 MR. SPARKS: Yes. 26 27 MR. COMMACK: Okay, thank you. 28 29 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Zach, you have 32 something -- go ahead, Zach. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I'm 35 a little bit confused right now and I want to make 36 certain that I understand the question that you raised 37 and that Louie -- that you raised, Mr. Chair, and that 38 Member Commack raised correctly. 39 40 Mr. Sparks, right now, is not 41 addressing the Ambler Road issue, to be very clear, 42 that's not on the table right now. What we are 43 addressing right now..... 44 45 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Somebody has us 46 muted. 47 48 MR. STEVENSON: Excuse me, we're on the 49 -- would the participants on the teleconference please 50






1 press star six..... 2 3 REPORTER: Zach. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: .....and mute your 6 phone. 7 8 REPORTER: Zach, you have them muted. 9

10 MR. STEVENSON: If someone -- thank 11 you. 12 13 To repeat my question. I'm asking for 14 clarification from both the Chair and Member Commack, 15 and to be clear, Mr. Sparks is not addressing the 16 Ambler Road issue. Mr. Sparks, right now, is 17 addressing the Bering Sea Western Interior Resource 18 Management Plan and environmental impact statement. My 19 question, Mr. Chair and Mr. Commack is, were you asking 20 for clarification on the .810 analysis, not as it 21 relates to the Ambler Road issue, which was discussed 22 before lunch, but in this case, the .810 analysis as it 23 relates to the Bering Sea Western Interior Resource 24 Management Plan and EIS. 25 26 And for Member Commack, were you asking 27 for involvement of tribes in this case on the Bering 28 Sea Western Interior Resource Management Plan, again, 29 we're not addressing the Ambler Road right now. 30 31 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 32 33 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Tristen. 34 35 MR. PATTEE: Yeah, just real quick. We 36 keep bringing up the Ambler Road and I appreciate the 37 interest in the whole thing, but, again, this EIS, it's 38 basically a whole number of studies and you're going to 39 get all the information from all these different -- 40 this entire study from the -- it's going to be very 41 detailed, they're going to be very transparent and I'm 42 assuming they're going to do the EEA at the same time, 43 which is an .810 analysis, and they usually do that 44 concurrent, so it's -- there's not too much confusion, 45 so the BLM and the Park Service can actually explain 46 everything at the same time. 47 48 So they are going to be very 49 transparent once they get this entire study done, they 50






1 just have to put together the draft. 2 3 So that's it. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Any further 6 questions. 7 8 Hannah. 9

10 MS. LOON: I stated awhile ago in 11 reference to Bering Sea and Western Interior 12 presentation, that the -- Mr. Chairman, can the 13 Regional Council Advisory Council can take a position 14 or write a statement now for Zach to submit on the 15 issue of Squirrel River, to focus on it only and what I 16 addressed at the meeting a year ago and now again 17 today. 18 19 Thank you. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other further 22 questions. 23 24 (No comments) 25 26 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, do you 27 guys have anything else. 28 29 MR. SPARKS: No, and congratulations 30 again, and thank you to the Board. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yep, thank you. 33 34 (Pause) 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, next is the 37 Western Arctic Caribou Herd report by Alex Hansen. 38 39 MR. HANSEN: Okay. For the record this 40 is Alex Hansen, Alaska Department of Fish and Game 41 located here in Kotzebue and I work with the Western 42 Arctic Caribou Herd. 43 44 And if you'd like to follow along in 45 your packets I have a presentation on Page 32. 46 47 To start out, I guess I will say that 48 our latest count, latest photo census that we were able 49 to conduct was done in 2017. We made an effort to 50






1 conduct a census in 2018, however, conditions didn't 2 exist to be able to pull that off. We got very close, 3 the caribou were coming together and then they came 4 apart, the weather didn't cooperate and the caribou 5 didn't cooperate so we were not able to photograph in 6 2018. 7 8 We have plans to do another photo 9 census this coming summer, summer of 2019 so standby

10 for that. 11 12 The most current information that we 13 have is the count was 259,000 animals in 2017, which is 14 up from 2016 of 201,000 animals. 15 16 And if you look you can see that 17 abundance graph, it kind of shows, you know, over the 18 history of the photo censuses that have been conducted 19 in the herd and we can see kind of a long decline from 20 about 2003, bottoming out about 2015 and then starting 21 to turn around and come back up, so bottomed out in 22 2016 and then we had an uptick in 2017. 23 24 So some of the other metrics that we 25 look at when we are unable to get a census, some very 26 telling information are adult female survival, knowing 27 that the cow survival kind of drives the population. 28 2016/2017 adult female survival was average of about 84 29 percent, which suggests that growth was probably 30 likely. And last winter we had a higher mortality than 31 expected over winter and our survival for adult females 32 was lower than it has been in the most recent past at 33 71 percent, which would indicate that..... 34 35 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Are we on a break 36 or are we muted. 37 38 REPORTER: Zach, you have the mute 39 button on. 40 41 MR. STEVENSON: Excuse me. Mr. Chair. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 44 45 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. The 46 teleconference is live, can those hear us who are on 47 the phone right now speaking? 48 49 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We can hear you. 50






1 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 2 3 MR. HANSEN: All right, we'll give this 4 another try. 5 6 MR. SWAN: Some of you could speak a 7 little bit louder but then some of you speak too 8 quietly. 9

10 MR. HANSEN: Can you hear me out there 11 in teleconference land. 12 13 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We have not been 14 able to hear you. 15 16 REPORTER: You had them on mute for the 17 last like five minutes, Zach, that's what the problem 18 is. When those little green buttons are red, that 19 means the phone is muted on this end and they can't 20 hear anything. They need to be on green for the 21 teleconference to hear from this end. 22 23 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 24 25 MR. HANSEN: Okay, we'll try this 26 again. Please let us know if you can't hear us. 27 28 All right, so 2018/2017 overwinter 29 survival was lower than expected which would suggest 30 that we probably didn't grow and the population might 31 have, you know, taken a little dip last year. However, 32 another metric that we look at is calf recruitment and 33 our calf recruitment has been consistently high since 34 2016. In 2016 we had 23 calves coming into the 35 population to 100 adults and then last year -- I'm 36 sorry, 2017 was 22, 2018 was 21 and we plan on 37 conducting that survey beginning as soon as we can here 38 in April. 39 40 That's another telling thing when we 41 look at the population trajectory for the herd. And if 42 you look at the graph that I have there, the population 43 trajectory, all those kind of crazy lines and green and 44 white and red pillars there, that's basically those two 45 things put on the same graph and so it kind of tells 46 us, you know, that if adult mortality is high and calf 47 recruitment is low then we're probably going to see a 48 declining period as you can see in that red spot. 49 However, if you look over to the far left in the green, 50






1 those are separated in the opposite direction. So our 2 recruitment is high and our mortality is low, which is 3 an indicator of growth. So right now we're -- we 4 started to see a little bit of growth patterns and then 5 the mortality of the adults went up a little bit so it 6 causes a little bit of confusion in the system but like 7 I say, we're going to launch another photo census this 8 summer and hopefully get another number. 9

10 Some other things that we looked at are 11 calf production. For the last few years, 2017. 2018 12 our production was very high on the calving grounds so, 13 you know, those are also good metrics that indicate 14 good herd health overall. 15 16 Another study that we've been working 17 on is a neonate study. As the population was declining 18 we started to look at, you know, different causetory 19 factors, see if we could tease out some issues that we 20 were seeing out there. So one of the things that we 21 looked at was survival of the newborn calves so we 22 would collar calves, this began in 2017, we collared 78 23 calves and followed them through the first year of 24 their life. And we were able to detect annual survival 25 was pretty good, very high for an Arctic herd at 42 26 percent. So that was another positive indicator. 27 28 Some of the mortality causes that we 29 saw were brown bears, eagles and wolves, mostly brown 30 bears took place on the calving ground. And then of 31 course other non-predation mortalities including 32 drowning, that sort of thing. 33 34 So we're in our second year of that 35 currently. 36 37 2018 was a little bit different. We 38 had fewer brown bear mortalities on the calving 39 grounds. The Western Arctic Herd calved a little bit 40 further to the north and we suspect that they were kind 41 of just a little bit further outside of that peripheral 42 range of those brown bears that were preying on them 43 the previous year. That's our conclusion at the 44 moment, still investigating that. 45 46 We still have a number of unknown 47 mortalities that are out on the ground. We'll plan on 48 picking those up as soon as the snow melts. 49 50






1 Another thing that we've kind of run 2 into and, you know, most of the folks in the region 3 have is the challenges that we're dealing with with 4 changes in fall migration patterns. So we've always 5 historically used the fall migration at Onion Portage 6 as an opportunity to collar the animals. It's a very 7 good way, a very, you know, safe way to collar those 8 animals and handle them carefully, and looking at some 9 past numbers we put out about 40 collars in 2014, adult

10 collars, 45-ish in 2015 and over 30 in 2016. However, 11 over the last two years, 2017 and 2018 we were only 12 able to collar a total of seven adult animals at the 13 Kobuk River. So with that inability to collar animals 14 on the Kobuk and the increased over winter mortality 15 that we saw on the adults over the past year, as I 16 mentioned, our collar count was getting too low. And 17 as I brought up to your attention at this meeting, in 18 the fall we had to look at some alternative methods to 19 collar those animals, because having those collars out 20 allows us to do our calf recruitment or short yearling 21 surveys, our calving surveys, photo census, fall 22 composition surveys and, of course, our survival 23 estimate. 24 25 So we just recently completed a net gun 26 capture project last week, 31st, 1st and 2nd up in the 27 Red Dog area and we were able to collar 31 individuals. 28 That was 30 cows and one bull and things went very 29 well, the project was successful and we've had minimal 30 loss of animals. 31 32 So fall composition surveys, the last 33 one we did was in 2017 and prior to that it was 2016. 34 35 So we had a bit of a spike between 36 2016, 2017 from 41 bulls to 100 cows to 54 bulls to 100 37 cows. And then also on the calf to cow ratio, 54 38 calves to 100 cows, and 57 calves to 100 cows. And, 39 you know, those are all good numbers, we like to keep 40 it above 40 and, you know, no real concerns there. 41 Possibly looking at doing another fall composition 42 survey coming up this next October. That's still to be 43 decided. 44 45 All of this input, information and 46 these metrics go into making some decisions and 47 Brittany, and maybe I'll help her out here, but we'll 48 do an update on the Western Arctic Herd Working Group 49 meeting probably tomorrow I would suspect, but those 50






1 decisions come in -- or those measurements come in to 2 making this decision as to where we feel like the 3 management level of the herd should be. And presently 4 the Western Arctic Herd Working Group has selected to 5 maintain the management level at conservative stable, 6 which is the same location it was at last year, which, 7 basically kind of tells a story that, you know, things 8 are pretty good, we're not overly concerned but we need 9 to be kind of watching things and see where they go.

10 11 And with that I will turn it over to 12 any questions you might have. 13 14 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 15 16 (Teleconference disconnect) 17 18 (Pause) 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hang on, we 21 accidentally got disconnected. 22 23 (Pause) 24 25 MS. MAAS: This is Lisa Maas for the 26 record. I just had a question for Alex. 27 28 MR. STEVENSON: Lisa, could you hold 29 for just a moment, we're trying to dial back in. 30 31 MS. MAAS: Okay. 32 33 (Pause) 34 35 (Redialing teleconference) 36 37 (Pause) 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: We were disconnected 40 for a moment, we're back on line, can those on the 41 teleconference hear us. 42 43 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes. 44 45 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you. Was there 48 any questions for Alex from the Council. 49 50






1 Tristen. 2 3 MR. PATTEE: Yeah, I missed the 4 beginning of your presentation but is there any data or 5 science that has been done to figure out why the 6 migration pattern has changed? 7 8 MR. HANSEN: I was going to let Lisa 9 answer that one.

10 11 (Laughter) 12 13 MR. HANSEN: You know certainly we're 14 interested in figuring out what that is. I guess we 15 don't have any current studies as to what that might 16 be. We, you know, certainly have seen differences in 17 weather patterns. I guess I could speak historically, 18 you know, that going back into the 50s and 60s even, 19 you know, some of these migration patterns did occur, 20 you know, they're kind of similar to what happened in 21 the past and I don't know exactly what drives that, I 22 can't speak to that, we don't have that information. 23 But it's certainly very -- it would be very good to 24 know, I will say that. 25 26 MR. PATTEE: So there's nothing 27 happening, there's no studies or anything that's 28 actually trying to figure it out, it's just we don't 29 know? 30 31 MR. HANSEN: Well, I can't say that 32 there isn't something going on, I mean there's 33 certainly folks looking into, you know, climate change 34 and the effects that that has, right. Ourselves, you 35 know, ADF&G here in the Kotzebue office, we're not 36 working on that. It's, you know, obviously stymied us 37 as well but, you know, we don't have a plan in place to 38 produce a study that might be able to answer those 39 questions. 40 41 MR. PATTEE: Okay, thank you. 42 43 MR. SWAN: You're missing a whole lot 44 of information from that because local knowledge..... 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: We need their name. 47 48 MR. SWAN: .....they hunt these 49 animals. Do the study through local knowledge you will 50






1 find out why your migration has changed. 2 3 MR. HANSEN: Thank you for that 4 comment, yes. We're certainly always interested in, 5 you know, what local knowledge can provide and any 6 direction you might point us in that we could progress 7 in that direction. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Was there any other

10 questions for -- go ahead, Zach. 11 12 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 13 Would the caller who just stated that comment please 14 state their name for the record. 15 16 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 17 18 19 (No comments) 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 22 Again, this is Zach Stevenson with OSM asking the 23 caller who just shared that comment about ADF&G working 24 with traditional knowledge to inform some of the 25 questions about why the herd is changing, would they 26 please state their name, the person who just shared 27 that comment, for the record. 28 29 MR. SWAN: Reppe Swan, Kivalina. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 32 33 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further questions 34 for Alex from the Council. 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 39 40 MS. MAAS: Yeah, thanks. This is Lisa 41 Maas for the record. And I just wanted to ask Alex if 42 one of the potential reasons for the lower adult female 43 survival for 2017 to 2018 was due to just lower collar 44 numbers that perhaps there's not as many collared cows 45 out there and the ones that are collared are a little 46 bit older than if they were able to get collars put on 47 in 2017. 48 49 MR. HANSEN: Yeah, that's a good 50






1 observation Lisa. We could, you know, maybe attribute 2 some of that -- or that lower survival number to 3 sampling years simply because we have fewer collars in 4 the field and also, as she mentioned, because some of 5 those collars are getting a little bit older as we've 6 been, you know, unable to collar in recent years. 7 8 Very good observation. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: My question is, over 11 the last several years, I'd have to say five years, 12 I've noticed a lot less caribou going through the Kobuk 13 Valley, crossing the Kobuk River. And then we get a 14 big bunch of them coming through here. You guys don't 15 have like a graphical chart that shows what portion of 16 the herd is traveling through the Kobuk and then some 17 through Kotzebue Sound and passing by through here. I 18 mean just, what we're going to do is we're going to try 19 and figure out, you know, which way they're migrating, 20 I mean kind of like my guesstimation is maybe 20 21 percent of the herd travels through the Kobuk and then 22 the rest flows down here right past us and right 23 through Kotzebue. I mean I don't know that but I mean 24 that's kind of from what I see. I've gone up there to 25 Kobuk for so many years hunting caribou and I've never 26 had a problem coming home with some until the last 27 couple years. 28 29 You know, I noticed the migration and 30 global warming and climate change and all this other 31 stuff, it's starting to drive everything kind of crazy. 32 This last winter we've had -- this winter here so far 33 we've had, you know, pretty warm weather, a lot of 34 blizzards, a lot of snow, you know, just beginning to 35 wonder what kind of impact that may have had. 36 37 MR. HANSEN: Yeah, to address your 38 question, if we do have some product that kind of 39 depicts that and Kyle Joly with the Park Service works 40 on that every year and presents that at the working 41 group meeting and you should be able to find that -- I 42 don't think we have it here but you could go to the 43 Western Arctic Herd Working Group website and you could 44 look at those graphs -- or sorry, those movement data 45 and it kind of shows the percentages that move 46 different directions and different travel corridors. 47 48 MS. MAAS: This is Lisa Maas just 49 adding on to what Alex just said. That information is 50






1 available through the Park Service's website and I 2 found it the other week when I was just Googling and 3 it's actually for the Noatak River. They have 4 diagrams, I think back to 2010, of percentages of 5 collared caribou that cross the Noatak River at 6 different segments and it's really easy to see just the 7 variation with those diagrams from year to year and 8 they're called an inventory and monitoring reports that 9 the Park Service puts out and I don't know if Kyle is

10 still on line but he could add more to that. 11 12 Thanks. 13 14 Oh, he's not. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 17 18 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 19 Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Lisa and Alex. 20 21 I did want to mention that there was a 22 request that had come in this afternoon from Brittany 23 Sweeney of the Selawik Refuge to share an update on the 24 December 2018 Western Arctic Herd Working Group 25 meeting. Again, the goal here this afternoon is to 26 share wildlife reports that might help to inform any 27 call for Federal wildlife regulatory proposals. And I 28 would suggest that perhaps after that report we take a 29 short recess and see if we might be able to bring up 30 that report that shows some of the Noatak related 31 caribou movements and we could certainly bring that up 32 on the projector screen if it's available. 33 34 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Enoch. 37 38 MR. MITCHELL: Yeah, Lisa, what was that 39 name again, that study? 40 41 MS. MAAS: It's just the inventory and 42 monitoring report that Gates of the Arctic National 43 Park puts out every year. And, yeah, you can find it 44 on line. But like Zach said, we can try to pull it up 45 and show it on the projector. 46 47 MR. MITCHELL: Thank you. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 50






1 MR. FRONSTIN: Raime Fronstin. So I 2 just wanted to make a comment just to clarify that when 3 we put out the collars we, you know, obviously we don't 4 have the whole population collared and so we hope that 5 the collars -- the migratory paths of the collars are a 6 good representation of what the whole population is 7 doing. So when you see these maps, it's a proportion 8 of the collared caribou that are going through these 9 different areas but -- and, again, like we hope that

10 that's a representation of what's real. But it's 11 possible that it's not and so it could give, you know, 12 a -- I mean it could give false information, you know, 13 but that's -- I just wanted to clarify that. 14 15 Thanks. 16 17 MR. VIVEIROS: Mr. Chair. 18 19 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Silvano. 20 21 MR. VIVEIROS: Good afternoon. Silvano 22 Viveiros, Kotzebue. Just reading up on this Selawik 23 Refuge report, and talking with some other people, you 24 know, that are concerned about the population, I see 25 that they took a conservative stance, which you didn't 26 have the numbers for a herd count, population count, 27 don't you think it should have been a little bit more 28 restrictive, and -- without numbers, you know what I 29 mean. I'm just saying that because it's our food. 30 31 Did you get that. 32 33 The other thing I wanted to ask is 34 where and how many different locations here in Kotzebue 35 can you get a caribou permit, last year, do you know 36 that? 37 38 MR. HANSEN: Here in Kotzebue you can 39 get a caribou permit from our office, of course. 40 Anybody can get one on line. Easy to just, you know, 41 get on the computer and print that out. 42 43 I think you can get them at Golden 44 Eagle Aviation, they're a vendor as well. And we used 45 to have the Northstar Market, however they closed their 46 doors. And the AC does some permits and I think you 47 can get a caribou permit there. We were working with 48 KIC, but I'm not sure where that's at, at the Napa, but 49 that's the current information at least for Kotzebue. 50






1 And our Federal partners do have those for distribution 2 as well. 3 4 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. So the air taxis 5 at the airport there, they were giving them out? 6 7 MR. HANSEN: Yeah, they can pick those 8 up if they go to like Golden Eagle Aviation. 9

10 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. Just asking. But 11 I just kind of am surprised that that didn't go a 12 little bit more restrictive on the management of the 13 herd, you know, just my two cents. 14 15 MR. HANSEN: So I guess maybe to 16 address that just a little bit. We have just -- you 17 brought up the permit and the permit is brand new and 18 we're trying to, you know, get that out in the hands of 19 the local hunters, right, so that we can get a better 20 estimate of the harvest. So in the past, well, since 21 forever, we've kind of just been guessing on what that 22 harvest estimate is. So this new permit, you know, out 23 in the hands of the local hunters will give us that 24 information as to how close we actually are. Right now 25 we're just kind of guessing that the harvest is about 26 12,000 per year. And, you know, there's a lot of good 27 inputs that go into that, right, I'm not saying that 28 it's a total guess but -- so what we're hoping is that 29 when we get better numbers back from that permit, when 30 people start buying into that then we can manage a 31 little bit closer to the line and we can, you know, 32 make those cuts a little bit more meaningful, if that 33 makes sense. 34 35 MR. VIVEIROS: I have one more followup 36 there, Zach. And I noticed that the caribou are moving 37 later and there were some other questions that were 38 brought forward in regards to their rutting season, has 39 this affected that at all with the different climate 40 change? 41 42 MR. HANSEN: So I would say that, you 43 know, looking through the data that the rut probably 44 occurs still kind of the same timeframe, you know, late 45 October. We did -- let's see, the last fall 46 composition survey, which we kind of do that around the 47 peak of the rut, is the ideal time to do that, because 48 we get, you know, the bulls coming in, we don't have 49 segregated groups off in different places and so that 50






1 was, you know, 18th, 19th of October and they were 2 coming in to the peak of the rut at that point. 3 Obviously there's going to be some leeway, you know, 4 either side of that but that's a pretty safe estimate. 5 And I don't think that that has changed a whole lot, 6 you know, there's still, you know, that drive to have 7 the rut take place during that same time period. 8 9 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay, thanks. That's

10 all I got, thank you. 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Zach, go ahead. 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 I wanted to briefly provide some information to respond 16 to Silvano's question about where the permits can be 17 obtained, where people can get them. 18 19 There's a two page -- a one -- double- 20 sided piece of paper that's blue, that says new caribou 21 hunting permit regulations for Unit 23. This 22 information is available for free on the Office of 23 Subsistence Management website, and this information 24 was circulated. All of the Council members have this 25 information in front of you and it's available for free 26 on the Federal Subsistence Management website, but it 27 talks about everything you need to know about the new 28 caribou regulations. That permits are free. Where to 29 get the permits. And the new season for take. 30 31 So if anyone has any questions feel 32 free to get a copy of that form, it's up at the front 33 table and all of our Council members have a copy. 34 35 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else. 38 39 Brittany. 40 41 MR. SWAN: Hello, Reppe Swan, Kivalina. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Reppe. 44 45 MR. SWAN: Climate change did not 46 change the route of the caribou. It only delays when 47 they're coming. When it gets cold the ground gets 48 hard, that's when they start traveling. They don't 49 travel through the tundra when it's soft, they know 50






1 that, because most of the tundra has grass over water. 2 It only delays for them to come. These past five years 3 have noticed in our river every year we're getting more 4 and more planes, more and more campers, rafters. Also, 5 when you travel up there, there are more and more 6 planes, that's all I can say. But climate change did 7 not change the route of the caribou, it only delays 8 when they are coming. 9

10 That's all I have to say. 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you, Reppe. 13 Okay, we're going to go to Brittany Sweeney. 14 15 MS. SWEENEY: Thank you. My name is 16 Brittany (In Inupiaq). And I'm going to walk you 17 through this newsletter that I passed out. So this was 18 originally listed on your agenda later on and we 19 thought we'd just put all the caribou stuff together at 20 the same time so that it can inform your conversation 21 later. 22 23 So what this newsletter is about, is 24 it's a summary of things that happened at the Western 25 Arctic Herd Working Group meeting in December. 26 27 So some of you guys know about the 28 Western Arctic Herd Working Group, some of you are on 29 that group. Enoch is a member of that group. But they 30 only meet once a year and they talk about caribou 31 issues for multiple days and it's really interesting to 32 me because it's the only time you get people from the 33 North Slope and our region and Seward Peninsula and 34 Interior all together. So they only get to meet once a 35 year and then they don't make regulations, right, they 36 might make recommendations or discuss the status of the 37 herd, but that's how their role is different to your 38 role, you guys are the ones for the Federal system who 39 might talk about regulations. 40 41 So after that meeting, the December 42 meeting, I wrote a brief newsletter to explain to 43 people what happened because it happens in Anchorage 44 and a lot of people can't go to it. So that's what 45 this newsletter is. 46 47 So the first thing talks about the herd 48 status. And, Silvano, I'd be happy to provide to you 49 the working group, a copy of their management plan, 50






1 because under there it describes more of what those 2 status levels mean, and so they have all these 3 definitions like if they went from conservative to 4 preservative it would mean we'd have to try to reduce 5 local harvest by a certain percentage so there's a lot 6 of those definitions and I could be happy to share that 7 with you tomorrow. 8 9 It also, in that first article,

10 explains some of those same information Alex shared 11 with you and that even though we don't have a number 12 for the herd, we do have some other indicators. 13 14 Another action item that came from the 15 working group meeting was that this year the caribou 16 working group formally took a position to oppose the 17 Ambler Road. So they did vote on that and take that 18 action item and that's explained in the second article 19 in the newsletter. 20 21 Earlier today when you were hearing 22 about the Ambler Road, several times they mentioned 23 that Tina McMaster-Goering is the person to call, and I 24 just wanted to point out that her email and phone 25 number is in that article, the second one and she told 26 me that they have money to come to villages and do 27 meetings, that's why I put her phone number and email 28 in there, if you want to contact her about Ambler Road. 29 30 One last thing I wanted to point out is 31 that because they kept the status the same and because 32 they didn't have a new count, the working group didn't 33 talk much about changes to regulations, they wanted to 34 keep working with the regulations we have and see how 35 things go, get another year of knowledge. But they did 36 vote to support an idea that was just a concept at the 37 time that the Kotzebue Advisory Committee had to remove 38 the bull closure, so I wanted to point out that the 39 working group, the caribou working group was in favor 40 of that, of taking that away. So later on, if you're 41 talking about caribou regulations, I wanted you to know 42 what position they had taken. 43 44 And so that's all I wanted to cover in 45 this newsletter. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you for that 4 update Brittany and Alex. I had a quick question for 5 you, Brittany, and I was unclear, is there information 6 in the newsletter helping to explain where that request 7 from the Native Village of Kotzebue, what the 8 justification for that request was. 9

10 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 11 12 MS. SWEENEY: Zach, no, I don't believe 13 that there was a lot of information in there, but I can 14 -- regarding -- it wasn't Native Village of Kotzebue, 15 it was Kotzebue Advisory Committee, that's the Fish and 16 Game Advisory Committee, but what I can read in here 17 and also this matches my recollection, is that, there 18 was some discussion that in the regulations it doesn't 19 differentiate between, you know, large bulls land 20 younger bulls, so right now the closed season affects 21 all of those. And they felt that hunters might want to 22 take smaller bulls in the later winter like late 23 December, January when they're good again to take. The 24 regulation currently doesn't allow for that. But they 25 thought that that might actually do more to help 26 conserve cows, you know, shift the harvest away from 27 cows back to those smaller bulls if that closure wasn't 28 in place. 29 30 So that, I think, was part of the 31 justification for wanting to remove that. 32 33 They felt that local hunters would 34 still follow their tradition of not taking stink bulls, 35 you know, that that would still be the guiding force 36 for them, but that knowledgeable hunters would be able 37 to target some of those smaller bulls and help give the 38 cows a break for the pregnant animals for the future. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Brittany. 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any questions for 43 Brittany from the Council. 44 45 Go ahead, Hannah. Tristen you'll be 46 next. 47 48 MS. LOON: Taikuu (In Inupiaq). I'm 49 looking at this Federal subsistence regulations, you 50






1 said the caribou working group struck out bulls be 2 removed, what do you mean. 3 4 Thank you. 5 6 MS. SWEENEY: Well, as I said the 7 caribou working group, they don't make the regulations, 8 they can't make the regulations, but they voted to 9 support that idea, that possible change. So someone

10 else would have to put a proposal in, and I think the 11 Kotzebue Sound put it in to the Board of Game. 12 13 MS. MAAS: Yeah, no, no Western Arctic 14 Herd Working Group did too. 15 16 MS. SWEENEY: Okay. So then they put 17 it in as a proposal and then so later on when you 18 discuss wildlife regulatory proposals you'll hear what 19 proposed change -- so they, themselves, don't have the 20 power to make that change but they supported that and 21 then you'll discuss regulations later in your agenda. 22 23 MR. PATTEE: I just had a question 24 about their decision and how they justified making the 25 decision to oppose the Ambler Road. Was there certain 26 information they used, like studies, or was it just all 27 based off of anecdotal information? 28 29 MS. SWEENEY: The working group has had 30 presentations and proposals from BLM on their planning 31 process, and from the Park Service on their planning 32 process for a long time and then that working group is 33 made up of stakeholders and subsistence hunters and 34 traditional knowledge holders from all over the range 35 so some of them from like Allakaket or Interior where 36 they have some history dealing with roads and they felt 37 that, you know, their, and help me Alex if I'm 38 misstating this, but they're there to advocate for the 39 herd. So they recognized that people in the Upper 40 Kobuk and other places are going to weigh out a variety 41 of factors when they take a position, but for this 42 particular group, just speaking about the caribou herd 43 and people's, you know, continued use of the herd, I 44 think that was their basis for their decision was 45 concern about impact to the herd and subsistence use of 46 the herd. 47 48 MR. PATTEE: Thank you. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further 2 questions. 3 4 (No comments) 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, I agree. You 7 know last fall and the fall before talking with a lot 8 of local hunters, you know, they're kind of mad because 9 we shut down the bull season because they wanted to be

10 able to take small bulls, even this was, you know, when 11 we were still able to go up in boats and to be able to 12 harvest these younger bulls that aren't rutting -- 13 getting the chance to rut like the big bulls. I think 14 that would be something worth looking into to removing 15 that. 16 17 I know that -- I don't know what the 18 Council thinks but that's kind of what I seen, was 19 that, people would like that bull closure to be 20 reopened again due to the fact that local subsistence 21 harvesters want to get younger bulls that aren't 22 rutting. 23 24 Do we have any suggestions by the 25 Council, or would they support that -- would any of you 26 support that? 27 28 MS. SWEENEY: I was just going to say 29 that will come up on your agenda later on to 30 deliberate. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Go ahead, 33 Lisa. 34 35 MS. MAAS: Thanks. Lisa Maas for the 36 record. I just wanted to clarify the process. 37 38 So right now is the time to submit 39 proposals. So the Kotzebue Advisory Committee and the 40 Western Arctic Herd Working Group, they both submitted 41 proposals to remove that bull closure in the fall and 42 so that it's submitted we're going to work over the 43 summer to analyze that proposal and then at your fall 44 meeting we'll present the analysis for those proposals 45 and so it'll be at the fall meeting when the Council 46 will make a decision on whether to support or oppose 47 those proposals. 48 49 So I mean you guys can submit another 50






1 proposal or discuss it right now but I just wanted to 2 clarify that it will really be in the fall that a 3 decision from the Council will be needed. 4 5 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, I agree, it 6 would probably be better if we aligned with the State, 7 and also with a Fish and Game proposal, or State 8 proposals..... 9

10 MS. MAAS: I'm sorry, could you repeat 11 that, she was talking at the same time. 12 13 MS. KENNER: Hi, for the record, this 14 is Pippa Kenner with OSM. 15 16 The other thing I wanted to add is that 17 the agenda has been organized to allow for different 18 agencies and organizations to give their reports on 19 wildlife, and after we've got all that information on 20 the agenda is the item to develop wildlife proposals. 21 So we're not developing them right now, we're hoping to 22 get through all the agency reports so we have all the 23 information. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah. Go ahead. 28 29 MR. PAPPAS: Point of order, Mr. Chair. 30 Yes, that's correct, that's at the end there, so you'll 31 have all the information presented in front of you so 32 you can make a decision on whether or not you want to 33 put a proposal in. 34 35 I would not depend on others to put a 36 proposal in for this Regional Advisory Council. My 37 recommendation is you put in your own proposal. And if 38 two similar proposals go in front of the Board so be 39 it. But this is your chance to put in a proposal and 40 the Federal Subsistence Board would evaluate your 41 proposal as high or better than the rest because this 42 is your region, you have C&T for these species in this 43 area. 44 45 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 46 47 I look forward to that discussion later 48 on in the meeting. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I know there's always 2 been conflicts regarding State and Federal alignment, 3 you know, there's always conflict. And with us being 4 able to align with the State that makes everything more 5 understandable by local hunters out in the villages if 6 they mimic each other. So that's one of the reasons 7 why I brought up that we should be able to align with 8 what the State comes up with, either we come up with 9 the same thing, it'll probably mirror what the State

10 has, it's like why mirror them when we can sit there, 11 you know, in support and be able to adopt either what 12 the State has put in or what we put in. So it would be 13 nice to be able to -- and hopefully here shortly we'll 14 be able to find out what it is that they're putting in 15 and we'd be able to mirror it. 16 17 Anybody else. 18 19 (No comments) 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: We're going on to the 22 next -- where were we. 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 25 26 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, Zach. 27 28 MR. STEVENSON: We are at a point now 29 in the agenda where we are wrapping up the report from 30 Alex Hansen and we also have -- or pardon me, we have 31 the -- we are wrapping up the report from the Western 32 Arctic National Park Lands from Raime, and I also 33 wanted to mention a..... 34 35 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: He hasn't given 36 his report yet. 37 38 (Laughter) 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Pardon me. A brief 41 request from Park Service to table the SRC report until 42 tomorrow with the Council's approval, which would move 43 us to the next item on the agenda, which was the 44 wildlife report from Gates of the Arctic National Park 45 and Preserve. 46 47 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 48 49 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Point of order. 50






1 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Raime still has to 2 give his, you were wrong..... 3 4 MR. STEVENSON: No. You're still 5 there, thank you. 6 7 MR. VIVEIROS: I'm confused, are we on 8 break because it sure seems like it. 9

10 (Laughter) 11 12 MR. STEVENSON: We're not -- 13 clarification, Mr. Chair. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead -- as 16 far as I know we are on 12, 3. 17 18 MS. MAAS: 11.3. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: 11.3. 21 22 MS. MAAS: So that's..... 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: 11.3 Thank you. Thank 25 you. My apologies. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, we just got 28 done with 11.2 and that was Alex. 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, Zach. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: We are also setting up 35 right now to share the information that had been 36 requested from the Council regarding the movements of 37 caribou in the Noatak area, so we've got Staff right 38 now setting up that presentation to share on the 39 display. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 (Pause) 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Should we take a five 46 minute break while they set up. 47 48 (Council nods affirmatively) 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Five minute break. 2 3 (Off record) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. Calling the 8 meeting back to order from recess. 9

10 We have Brandon Saito, for Game 11 Management Unit 23 wildlife report. Go ahead, Brandon, 12 you got the floor. 13 14 MR. SAITO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 15 My name is Brandon Saito. I'm the area biologist for 16 Fish and Game based out of Kotzebue. And Raime here 17 with me from Park Service. A lot of the projects we 18 work on are joint projects. 19 20 So I was just going to start off with 21 moose. 22 23 This year in the fall we surveyed the 24 Upper Kobuk drainage. And we found 21 calves per 100 25 adults and 27 bulls per 100 cows. And then this 26 spring, we just finished last week, we surveyed and we 27 got 601 moose for that Upper Kobuk drainage which is 28 about a four percent annual decrease from 2014. In 29 2014 the population was 727 and so it dropped down to 30 601. But the good thing is -- good news for moose, we 31 also counted 23 calves per 100 adults in the spring. 32 So usually what we look for is a number in the high 33 teens for calves per 100 adults to see an actual 34 increase in the moose populations in the northern 35 areas. So 23 is a really good number, that we haven't 36 really seen since the '90s. So that's -- even though 37 the population has been dropping we at least have some 38 good news. 39 40 And then you want to talk about the 41 muskox. 42 43 MR. FRONSTIN: Hi. Raime Fronstin. 44 Park Service. 45 46 So in your booklet on Page 37 I have 47 the wildlife report that includes all of our stuff, 48 caribou, moose, dall sheep, muskox and brown bears. 49 50






1 And since I submitted this to Zach we 2 had some data come in so I included that and printed 3 out some new ones that are over there on the table if 4 you want. 5 6 So let's see, dall sheep, compared with 7 -- for 2018 compared with prior years, the estimate 8 suggested that there was a decline in sheep in the 9 central DeLong -- yeah, I'm sorry, Zach.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Pardon me, Raime. 12 Through the Chair. For folks that are in the audience, 13 we're looking at the dall sheep information on Page 38 14 of your meeting book. It's got that blue table up at 15 the top and the map at the bottom. 16 17 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 18 19 Thanks, Jamie [sic]. Raime. 20 21 MR. FRONSTIN: So the estimates for 22 dall sheep in 2018 suggested a decline in sheep in the 23 Central DeLongs and the Trail Creek area while the 24 Bairds remained relatively stable. And our 2019 survey 25 is scheduled for July. 26 27 And then muskox. The count and 28 survival estimates from 2018 indicated a four percent 29 decrease in the Cape Thompson population over the years 30 2011 to 2018, and we suspect it was primarily due to 31 low female yearling survival. And just to answer a 32 question from before, Brandon and I, together, we used 33 the muskoxen composition and count survey data to 34 determine a sustainable harvest quota for the season 35 and then we divide the permits between the State and 36 the Federal hunts. So in 2018 we determined from the 37 numbers that five muskoxen could be taken, three of the 38 permits went to the State and two of the permits went 39 for the Feds. For the Federal permits we decided to 40 put both of our two permits into Cape Krusenstern in 41 order to alleviate some of the concern from Sisolik. 42 So just wanted to clarify that, how we do that. 43 44 Let's see. 45 46 The 2019 muskoxen surveys were just 47 completed and we're waiting on the estimates for that. 48 49 And everything else, let's see, we did 50






1 do a brown bear survey in 2018 for Gates of the Arctic. 2 And those surveys are done annually rotating in 3 different parks and every fifth year is an off year, so 4 this year -- in 2019 it's an off year, we don't have a 5 brown bear survey this year but next year we'll pick 6 those back up. And the results from that first cycle 7 of surveys will be analyzed and interpreted this year. 8 And the surveys for those prior four years are on that 9 back page, let's see, the survey results Page 40, along

10 with additional research that the Park will be doing 11 that we know of this year. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any questions for him 14 from the Council. 15 16 MR. VIVEIROS: I have one. 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Silvano. 19 20 MR. VIVEIROS: It says here, yeah, 21 that's brown bear density and abundance estimates per 22 survey area and year, lower Noatak drainage 2016 1,694 23 bears, is that correct? 24 25 MR. FRONSTIN: Yes, correct. So the 26 density was approximately 67.5 bears per 1,000 square 27 kilometers. And that would be, as you see, our highest 28 density in the areas that we've measured. 29 30 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hannah. 33 34 MS. LOON: How about for Selawik 35 drainage. 36 37 MR. FRONSTIN: For bears are you 38 asking? 39 40 MS. LOON: Yes. 41 42 MR. FRONSTIN: I -- we -- I think that 43 would have to be inferred from the larger data set, so 44 I don't know that I could say. 45 46 MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Chair. 47 48 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Enoch. 49 50






1 MR. MITCHELL: Yeah, going back on dall 2 sheep. You know the dall sheep's been closed for some 3 time and I heard they were trying to open it back up 4 again even though the dall sheep herd is not stable yet 5 so I'd like to see that -- the dall sheep herd become 6 stable before they even open it up. I don't want to 7 see them opening it up just for one sheep, that's been 8 mature already, that's not right. So make sure the 9 whole herd is stable before they open it up and not

10 open it up just for one sheep that's been found good, 11 you know. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other further 16 questions from the Council. 17 18 19 (No comments) 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I know the dall sheep 22 has always been my concern, you know, the number of 23 bears, wolves. You know as I was talking to somebody a 24 little bit ago, and that -- and then a few months ago I 25 spoke to an individual who stated that there was a game 26 management unit, I believe 16, that had the taking of 27 sow with cubs, and did that for like a year or two and 28 that dramatically dropped the population and moose 29 populations started to climb back up again. 30 31 You know we either need to start 32 looking at this type of control. The other type of 33 control is we go out there and we capture or dart 100 34 grizzly bears and give them a sterilization shot so 35 it'll sterilize them so that they're just feeders and 36 they will not produce. Something needs to be done 37 because these things are starting to get ridiculous. 38 Last year we had three of them taken within a mile of 39 Kotzebue. One of them got right over here by the south 40 -- or the north (indiscernible) city, you know, a 41 couple of guys were going to go over there and dispatch 42 it with rifles and KPD told them they couldn't because 43 it was in city jurisdiction. That's ridiculous. If 44 people want to protect the people within this community 45 they should have the right to do it and a law 46 enforcement agency should not to tell them to not do it 47 otherwise. It's either that or that, you know, law 48 enforcement agency needs to get over there and protect 49 the people because a wild bear in Kotzebue is not good. 50






1 You know I've always been for, you 2 know, the abundant taking of predator animals, you 3 know, that's why I'm hoping in a way that, you know, we 4 can get wolves to be unlimited. Where if a person 5 wants to get 100 wolves a year, so be it. I know 6 there's a lot less people out there trapping, hunting 7 wolves, wolverines, you know, it's just part of the 8 life cycle now days. Kids would rather play XBox than 9 go out and whack a couple wolves, you know, this is the

10 21st century, we either need to start doing something 11 about it or we need to start looking at the agencies to 12 start doing something about it, because if we can't 13 harvest enough of these predators then it's going to 14 start getting ridiculously out of control, you know, 15 and we want our subsistence resources to be around for 16 a long, long time, especially caribou and moose. I've 17 gotten an RM880 for the last two years. I saw bull 18 moose two days before opening season. After that I 19 didn't see another one. I saw one cow and she looked 20 pretty tired. You know, she's getting chased like 21 crazy and she was barely swimming across the Noatak 22 River because she looked like she was pretty much 23 harassed on the other side pretty good. 24 25 So we need to start looking at 26 something to be able to preserve our moose and our 27 caribou population, and if that involves opening up 28 killing the sows with cubs, or making them sterile, 29 something needs to be done. You know, I don't want to 30 hear we don't have the resources or we don't have the 31 money, it's there, it needs to be done. There needs to 32 be a study and, you know, when they do that study they 33 need to go out and do one or the other, to be able to 34 help control these animals. They're starting to get 35 braver, they're breaking into cabins, they're taking 36 caribou out of people's boats in the river, you know, 37 they're starting to get ridiculous. One of these days 38 somebody's going to get hurt and that's not going to be 39 good because I guarantee you that family will go out 40 and they will take every single bear they see, 41 everybody will know about it, you know. Back in the 42 old days they said if you had a bear come into fish 43 camp and wipe out half your whitefish on the drying 44 rack, they shot it and just drug it out in the ocean, 45 ditched it out there because it messed up 300 or 400 46 nice dried whitefish hanging eight feet off the ground, 47 that's a lot of work. And elders trying to put away 48 food for their family and a bear comes by and ruins it, 49 trust me, they're going to shoot it and take that thing 50






1 out in the ocean and ditch it that quick. 2 3 MR. VIVEIROS: Mike. I'm going to call 4 point of order. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 7 8 Anybody else. 9

10 MR. VIVEIROS: Last year when we went 11 moose hunting we were on the Kobuk Delta toward the 12 Selawik side, toward (indiscernible) and what they call 13 that river (indiscernible) and we were boating around 14 on there, me and Hiram went and my son and my wife, and 15 we didn't see anything and it was pretty weird. We 16 stayed out there for four or five days and came back. 17 But I understand what Mike's getting at and I know that 18 there had been some calves that were collared in that 19 area and some of the collars were picked up from 20 carcasses or whatever so the mortality rate of the 21 calves, the bull calves, I mean is not very high so I 22 know what he's talking about. 23 24 Is there another time that they're 25 going to do another collaring for the moose? 26 27 MR. SAITO: Yes. Through the Chair. 28 Yeah, we'll be continuing that project. So last year 29 we collared 77 calves and we had a 65 percent mortality 30 rate and all of them were caused by bears, brown bears, 31 and so we'll be continuing that for the next two years, 32 doing that same project. 33 34 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. Yeah, because I 35 read that and I was just trying to be sure that's what 36 I read. 37 38 But thank you guys for your work. 39 40 MR. SAITO: Yeah. 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hearing none, we'll 47 go on to the next agenda item -- or do you guys have 48 anything further, no. 49 50






1 MR. FRONSTIN: No. Just that we 2 definitely hear you and understand your frustrations. 3 You know I wish we could do -- we're trying to do what 4 we can do anyway to help so. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, we'll move on 7 to the next -- oh, see, my book is right here. 8 9 MR. STEVENSON: We have Brandon is up

10 next. 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Brandon..... 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: Brandon is up -- 15 Brandon Saito. 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Oh, Brandon is up, 18 no, he just gave his..... 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: Excuse me. 21 22 (Pause) 23 24 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, we'll go ahead 25 and proceed with No. 6 wildlife report, Gates of the 26 Arctic National Park Lands and Preserve, Marcy Okada, 27 you have the floor. 28 29 MS. OKADA: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair 30 and Council members. My name is Marcy Okada and I'm 31 the subsistence coordinator for Gates of the Arctic 32 National Park and Preserve. If I could ask you to turn 33 to Page 41 of your meeting book, I'll provide a dall 34 sheep survey update. 35 36 (Pause) 37 38 MS. OKADA: I know we have new members 39 on the Regional Advisory Council so I just would like 40 to share that Gates of the Arctic is in the easternmost 41 portion of Unit 23. 42 43 The National Park Service conducted an 44 aerial survey for dall sheep in Gates of the Arctic 45 National Park and Preserve between July 2nd and 7th of 46 last year, 2018. This survey covered areas around 47 Anaktuvuk Pass and the Itkillik Preserve which included 48 portions of Game Management Unit 24A, 24B, 26A and 26B, 49 though we did not do surveys in Unit 23 last year. 50






1 The population estimates are 2 approximately stable when compared to the previous 3 couple of years, the lamb to ewe ratio in both those 4 areas is approximately average in the Itkillik -- or is 5 approximately and in the Itkillik it is potentially 6 low. So the portion of Gates of the Arctic that was 7 surveyed was the northeastern portion for Gates of the 8 Arctic. We will continue surveys in these study areas 9 annually because the Itkillik is a longterm data set

10 and the Anaktuvuk area has an important subsistence 11 value. Part of the five year rotation in 2020 the 12 survey area will be expanded to cover almost all of 13 Gates of the Arctic National Park. Early 2020 portions 14 in Unit 23 will be surveyed. 15 16 Currently our dall sheep biologist 17 position is open and we're hoping to have it filled, 18 hopefully, by at least this September. 19 20 Are there any questions. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Is there any 23 questions out there for Marcy. 24 25 Hannah. 26 27 MS. LOON: Thank you, Marcy Okada. 28 This is Hannah Paniyayluk Loon. This is in reference 29 to caribou. There are no caribou this year in 30 Anaktuvuk. Do they hunt for Teshekpuk caribou or 31 normally do Western Arctic Herd go up there. 32 33 Thank you. 34 35 MS. OKADA: So Hannah, I'm going to 36 try and answer your question. I don't think we have 37 Kyle Joly, our caribou biologist on the phone. For 38 Anaktuvuk Pass the Western Arctic Caribou Herd it's 39 outer range does go through Anaktuvuk Pass but that's 40 it's outer most range of the herd. The two herds that 41 Anaktuvuk Pass is able to harvest from is the Teshekpuk 42 Herd and also the Western Arctic Caribou Herd. 43 44 MS. LOON: Thank you. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further questions 47 for Marcy. 48 49 Go ahead, Alex. 50






1 MR. HANSEN: Just to provide a little 2 bit clarification on the caribou in Anaktuvuk Pass, 3 this is Alex Hansen, Western Arctic Herd. Currently 4 the distribution of the Western Arctic Herd caribou 5 collars and the Teshekpuk caribou collars, there's 6 quite a few animals in the Anaktuvuk Pass area. Also 7 the Central Arctic mix in there as well. So presently 8 there's quite a few caribou up in the area of the Flats 9 of the Anaktuvuk Pass. I did speak to another

10 individual from Anaktuvuk a while back at another 11 meeting and they didn't see the fall migration come 12 through so they had trouble harvesting in the fall, 13 however, at the present time there are a lot of caribou 14 in and around Anaktuvuk Pass based on collar 15 distribution. 16 17 MS. LOON: I know they use all-terrain 18 vehicles, are they able to use their all-terrain 19 vehicles and harvest caribou. 20 21 Thank you. 22 23 MR. HANSEN: I believe that would be up 24 to the land use, you know, whoever owns the land up 25 there, right, but I believe they use a lot of those 26 Argos or track type vehicles and I don't know if they 27 use those in the fall but certainly a, you know, 28 snowmachine this time of year would be an excellent way 29 to access those animals. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any other questions 32 for Marcy. 33 34 (No comments) 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Seeing none, Marcy do 37 you have any more to inform us. 38 39 MS. OKADA: Yeah. And I just would 40 like to provide a quick update on the Gates of the 41 Arctic Subsistence Resource Commission and then also an 42 Ambler Road update for Park Service. 43 44 In regards to the Subsistence Resource 45 Commission, they met last November 13th and 14th in 46 Fairbanks and the main discussions were focused on the 47 Ambler Mining District Road and the Park Service Staff 48 also provided various resource updates. Additionally, 49 Dr. Todd Brinkman with University of Alaska-Fairbanks 50






1 presented information on research projects which 2 investigated human development and environmental change 3 impacts to traditional harvest practices. Our next 4 meeting will be next week in Anaktuvuk Pass. 5 6 And I'll move right along to our Ambler 7 Road update which is on Page 56 of your meeting book. 8 9 (Pause)

10 11 MS. OKADA: And the Gates of the Arctic 12 is required to do an environmental and economic 13 analysis, otherwise known as an EEA. The intact 14 assessment portions of the EEA is nearing completion, 15 this is a critical chapter in which information gained 16 from public input and from subject matter experts is 17 used to evaluate impacts of each of the two proposed 18 routes on NPS lands. Environmental and social and 19 economic impacts to resources and rural and traditional 20 lifestyles, including subsistence activities are being 21 examined. Our current list of impact topics are 22 caribou, fish, subsistence, permafrost, hydrology, wet 23 lands, archeology, visitor experience, wild and scenic 24 rivers and water quality. Results from the impact 25 assessment will be used to determine the recommended 26 route across Park Service lands and to develop permit 27 requirements to minimize adverse effects. If you have 28 any input regarding whether we captured the most 29 significant impact topics for this task, please contact 30 us. 31 32 And following up to what the Bureau of 33 Land Management has shared, we are streamlining our 34 draft EEA release to coincide with BLM's draft 35 environmental impact release and so we're going to be 36 releasing the draft EEA in mid-July and there will be a 37 60 day comment period. 38 39 And I'd also like to address people's 40 concerns regarding public access. Alaska Industrial 41 Development and Export Authority right-of-way permit 42 application currently states that access to the road 43 would be controlled and primarily limited to mining 44 related industrial uses, although some commercial uses 45 may be allowed under a permit process. The application 46 is being reviewed in that context. If there is a 47 request for public access in the future, the National 48 Park Service will treat it as a new undertaking and 49 conduct an appropriate level of review at that time. 50






1 Do Council members have any questions. 2 3 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Tristen. 4 5 MR. PATTEE: Hi, this is Tristen 6 Pattee. Just a question on the commercial uses, is 7 that -- can you elaborate a little bit more on that, is 8 that community members starting businesses in the area, 9 or what is that mean?

10 11 MS. OKADA: So commercial uses could be 12 folks that want to stake a mining claim, just a 13 personal mining claim, they can go ahead and apply for 14 just a personal use mining claim. 15 16 MR. PATTEE: Okay. So nowhere in the 17 application it's a -- well, is there somewhere in the 18 application that locals, if they choose to start a 19 business, they could use this industrial road to bring 20 in goods to their business, do you know if there's 21 anything in there about that? 22 23 MS. OKADA: I don't believe that type 24 of commercial use was included in the right-of-way 25 permit application. 26 27 MR. PATTEE: Okay, thank you. 28 29 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 32 33 MS. LOON: This is Hannah again. My 34 question is, this road is going to be open for 35 economical reasons, to my understanding, bringing 36 cheaper fuel and cheaper groceries and heavy stuff, am 37 I -- am I saying it right, or no? 38 39 MS. OKADA: So as was written into the 40 right-of-way permit application, the road is primarily 41 being limited to mining related industrial use. So in 42 regards to allowing use of the road for local 43 communities to be able to go in and out, that hasn't 44 been determined yet. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Tristen. 47 48 MR. PATTEE: So it hasn't been 49 determined so is there going to be a time to where it 50






1 can be discussed to decide whether or not locals would 2 be able to bring in goods? 3 4 MS. OKADA: Well, that's a good 5 question. Because it's just being stated as as a 6 industrial use road, primarily, along the way as we've 7 been meeting with local communities in the Upper Kobuk, 8 that has always come up where there's interest in folks 9 being able to use the road in order to bring in things

10 that the communities need, but as far as where in the 11 process that discussion could come up and be 12 considered, I'm not sure where along in the process 13 that would lie. Because as of right now the 14 application has been stated to be an industrial use 15 road. 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 18 Tristen. 19 20 MR. PATTEE: Okay. So I know that a 21 lot of people in the Upper Kobuk, they're going to be 22 wondering how they can get involved to be able to do 23 this and I'm not talking about just regular locals 24 driving on the road, I'm talking about them hiring a 25 different business to actually use it as an industrial 26 road to bring in goods and what -- would you be able to 27 provide us at some point how the local communities 28 would go about putting their input on what they would 29 want to use a road for, forindustrial use. Is there -- 30 yeah. 31 32 MS. OKADA: In regards to the Park 33 Service, I know we're continuing to consult with tribes 34 and we have been reaching out to each of the tribal 35 governments that are affiliated with Gates of the 36 Arctic. And so there's always room for input along the 37 way. There have been tribes that have shown interest 38 and meeting with us regularly and for those tribes that 39 we haven't heard back from, we're still reaching out to 40 them to see if we can provide updates through their 41 monthly meetings or whenever they do have tribal 42 council meetings, we try to provide Ambler Road 43 updates. 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Tristen. 46 47 MR. PATTEE: Okay. So I think I 48 mentioned this before, but if the tribes, Ambler, 49 Shungnak or Kobuk, or any tribe, if they were to submit 50






1 a request to be a cooperating agency, would they be 2 more informed in the whole process? 3 4 MS. OKADA: I would say so. And the 5 cooperating agency agreement is more along the lines 6 with the Bureau of Land Management but I would say so 7 that they're -- there is more back and forth 8 communication once a tribe does sign on to be a 9 cooperating agency, or agent.

10 11 MR. PATTEE: Thank you. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further questions 14 for Marcy. 15 16 (No comments) 17 18 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Seeing none, thank 19 you Marcy. 20 21 MS. OKADA: Okay. Thank you Council 22 members for your time. 23 24 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yep. Okay, next on 25 the agenda call for Federal wildlife proposals. 26 27 MS. MAAS: Are we going to do the Board 28 Support report first? 29 30 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: She's out sick. 31 32 MS. MAAS: Oh, okay. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 37 38 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 39 Just for point of clarification, we have on the agenda, 40 which has been modified but presently we had 41 Subsistence -- pardon me -- Board Support report from 42 Hazel Smith with the Alaska Department of Fish and 43 Game, Regulatory Program assistant. I've just been 44 informed that Ms. Smith had had a death in the family 45 and is unable to join us so that takes us to the next 46 item on the agenda which is the call for Federal 47 wildlife proposals. 48 49 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 50






1 MS. MAAS: All right, thanks. For the 2 record my name is Lisa Maas. 3 4 And first off I have another blurb that 5 I'm required to read for our office. 6 7 Because of the government shutdown, due 8 to a lack of funding we will continue to accept 9 proposals until March 27th as noted in the proposed

10 rule. However, because some of the Council meetings 11 had to be changed based on the shutdown, we will still 12 accept proposals from those Councils or proposals given 13 to the Federal representative, the Council coordinator, 14 at those meetings after the March 27th deadline, as 15 originally noted in the proposed rule. 16 17 So basically that's just saying the 18 Councils can still submit proposals even though the on 19 line deadline has passed. And there's information on 20 how to submit a proposal on Page 48 if anyone's 21 interested, but really I mean this is the time for the 22 Councils to discuss any potential change they'd like to 23 see in the Kotzebue wildlife harvest regulations, and 24 then as long as I understand your intention and you 25 make a motion on it, that's all you need to do to 26 submit a proposal. 27 28 MS. KENNER: Is it on Page 14. 29 30 MS. MAAS: Page 48 in the meeting book. 31 32 MS. KENNER: Oh, okay. 33 34 MS. MAAS: Okay. Are there are any 35 questions about the process or -- otherwise I'll..... 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do we have any 38 questions from the Council for Lisa. 39 40 (No comments) 41 42 MS. MAAS: Okay. Otherwise it's just 43 open up to any Council members who might have an idea 44 for a proposal they'd like to submit. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 47 48 MS. LOON: Did I hear that the moose -- 49 since the moose population went down three years ago, 50






1 when they reported it, it was the -- the population was 2 down, and can we write a proposal to close moose 3 hunting on Federally-recognized lands? 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 MS. MAAS: Yeah, just to clarify your 8 intent of that proposal, you want to close Federal 9 public lands, moose hunting on Federal public lands to

10 everyone or just to non-Federally-qualified users? So 11 it would still be open to subsistence users but closed 12 to, you know, non-local sporthunters or do you want to 13 close it completely to everyone? 14 15 MS. LOON: Keep it open for Federally- 16 recognized users and closed non-Federal users. 17 18 MS. MAAS: Okay. So, Hannah, the 19 process is you make a motion if you want to submit it 20 and then it's seconded and the Council votes on it. 21 And any discussion and..... 22 23 MS. KENNER: And discuss it. 24 25 MS. MAAS: .....rationale you should 26 also put on the record for why that change should be 27 made. 28 29 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 30 31 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 32 33 MS. LOON: I make a motion to close 34 moose hunting to non-Federal recognized users but open 35 to Federally-recognized users on Federal lands. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. So you wanted 38 it to be a special action request or..... 39 40 MS. LOON: Yes, special action request. 41 42 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: .....under regulation 43 -- special action request. 44 45 Okay. 46 47 There's a motion on the floor, do I 48 have a second. 49 50






1 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Chair. 2 3 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Zach. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: I don't know if we had 6 clarified that distinction, the difference between a 7 Federal wildlife regulatory proposal and a special 8 action, and maybe I'm wrong, but I just want it to be 9 clear that the Council is very clear on that

10 distinction, the difference between the two. 11 12 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 14 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Lisa. 15 16 MS. MAAS: Yeah, through the Chair, if 17 I can just clarify that. 18 19 So, I mean you're welcome to submit 20 both a special action and a proposal. But a special 21 action is temporary, so it would be for the 2019/2020 22 regulatory year, so basically this upcoming season, 23 whereas a proposal would be an indefinite, quote, 24 permanent regulation. So -- yep. 25 26 MS. LOON: At our last meeting last 27 fall this population on moose was presented by Brandon 28 Saito and it -- and we are hearing it again from 29 Silvano out hunting for moose and there are no moose, 30 and it would have -- I would graciously recommend 31 permanently, until the moose population becomes 32 healthy. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Tristen, go ahead. 37 38 MR. PATTEE: Yeah, I'm just -- is there 39 an opportunity that we could take a recess so I can ask 40 a little more questions or does it have to be on the 41 record right now? Is it -- can we call for a recess so 42 I can ask some questions, to learn more about what 43 she's actually talking about, is that possible? 44 45 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I don't see nothing 46 wrong it. 47 48 MS. ATORUK: Ask your questions now. 49 50






1 MS. KENNER: You do have this..... 2 3 MS. ATORUK: Ask questions now. 4 5 MR. PATTEE: Okay. So right now are 6 all the Federal lands open to moose hunting to non- 7 residents and residents? 8 9 MS. MAAS: Yes, so currently the

10 Federal regulations for moose in Unit 23 are bulls may 11 be harvested from July 1st to December 31st and cows 12 may be harvested from November 1st to December 31st. 13 It's on Page 115 if you guys have this regulation 14 booklet -- oh, sorry, that's for the northwest portion 15 of Unit 23 -- and so for the majority of Unit 23, the 16 bull season is August 1st through December 31st, and 17 cows is November 1st to December 31st. 18 19 MS. KENNER: And this is Pippa Kenner 20 with OSM, to answer your question, there are no 21 closures right now to Federally-qualified or non- 22 Federally-qualified. Federal public lands are open to 23 all users. 24 25 MS. MAAS: Yeah, there was a special 26 action that closed -- I mean if you're thinking about 27 closures that closed the winter season, it was put in 28 last November, so the winter season in 2018 was closed 29 to non-Federally-qualified users, but that was just a 30 temporary change. 31 32 MR. PATTEE: Okay. 33 34 (Pause - Mr. Stevenson talking with no 35 microphone) 36 37 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 38 39 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hold on for a second. 40 Brittany's passing out a clarification on the moose 41 harvest seasons or openings. 42 43 MS. SWEENEY: I'm handing out a fact 44 sheet that tells what the current moose hunting 45 regulations are for Alaska residents. Non-Alaska 46 residents, it's already closed to them. So the 47 difference we'd be talking about would be someone who 48 lives in Anchorage or Fairbanks. So I'll let you look 49 at this of what is currently on the books, what we 50






1 currently have and then you could talk about changes. 2 3 MS. KENNER: Okay, and, again, this is 4 Pippa Kenner with OSM. So I'm going to interpret, Mr. 5 Pattee, through the Chair. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead. 8 9 MS. KENNER: Okay, thanks. I'm going

10 to interpret your question to say are there any Federal 11 public lands that are closed to the harvest of moose 12 except for Federally-qualified users in Federal 13 regulations and the answer is no. 14 15 Now, there are some Park lands, now the 16 Hard Park has closures and has different regulations. 17 So for the purposes of what we do here, we're talking 18 about Preserves, Wildlife Refuges and BLM lands 19 primarily. 20 21 So of those lands, there are no 22 closures in Federal regulations. 23 24 I think what we were just told that the 25 State has closed either all or parts of Unit 23 to the 26 harvest of moose by non-residents of the State. 27 28 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I had Silvano next. 29 30 MR. VIVEIROS: I just have a question. 31 We currently know that with Brandon, I hope you don't 32 mind me saying your name, with his studies that he has 33 done and provided some pretty good material about the 34 mortality of calves in the area, has there any -- is 35 there any type of material or study done on the effects 36 of all the fires in the wilderness that have driven 37 some of the animals south, away from us, are there -- 38 do you know what I mean, because I know that a lot of 39 that has taken place, I mean with the recent higher 40 activity of wildland fires in the area, has there been 41 any thought about that? 42 43 MS. MAAS: I'm not aware of any study 44 specifically for Unit 23 considering wildfires, I mean 45 if anyone else knows of any feel free to jump in. 46 Generally, wildfires are good for moose, that they 47 cause that regeneration, sort of willow habitat, that 48 help out moose and I mean there's been lots of studies 49 documenting the benefits of wildfires and moose 50






1 habitat, but specifically in Unit 23 and recently I'm 2 not aware of any. 3 4 MR. VIVEIROS: I was just asking, thank 5 you. 6 7 MS. MAAS: Okay. 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Tristen.

10 11 MR. PATTEE: concerning the moose 12 closure thing, I just believe in a sense of balance is 13 necessary inclusive of all Alaskans and thank you for 14 clarifying the non-resident and resident, and non- 15 Federally-qualified. 16 17 What I am concerned about is, if we 18 close all the moose hunting for just the residents of 19 Alaska, they're going to focus more on State lands and 20 my home, there's a large portion of it on State land 21 and so what I think may happen is they're going to 22 focus more on those areas rather than it being spread 23 out throughout the entire area where they're allowed to 24 hunt. And so now we're going to get a big influx of 25 congestion where I live, and so that's just what I'm 26 concerned about if this motion passes. 27 28 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 29 30 MS. LOON: I would like to make an 31 amendment to my motion, to make it a short-term 32 proposal. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MS. MAAS: Do you mean a special 37 action? 38 39 MS. LOON: Yes. 40 41 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, special action 42 is a short-term, one year. You know, I know, Brandon, 43 the last several years he's been reducing the harvest 44 tickets for moose hunters, non-local and non-resident, 45 and I know that the last several years I believe that 46 he has not handed out any, I'm unsure but I mean I'm 47 pretty sure that's what he had stated at one time, that 48 he did not give out any moose harvest tickets to non- 49 residents but I think residents, the state of Alaska 50






1 there was some given out, I believe, but they had to 2 come up for the RM880 and that was from June, what..... 3 4 MS. MAAS: June..... 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: to July 15th. 7 8 MS. MAAS: Yeah, uh-huh. 9

10 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: If he could correct 11 me on those dates, I believe it as June 1st to July 12 15th? 13 14 MS. MAAS: Yep, that's correct, yep. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. With this 17 special action request, you know, like Tristen said, 18 it'll congest all the people on to the State's lands as 19 we had seen with the caribou. The special action 20 request that shut down the caribou. I know the Park 21 Service had opened up their waterways to -- they did 22 not want to enforce their waterways, anything below the 23 high tide mark was fair game, the transporters -- and 24 that brought all the transporters down to the river 25 where the people of Noatak were hunting and had to deal 26 with non-resident and transporters flying in and out 27 and hunting. 28 29 I know that there is a serious decline 30 in people harvesting moose around here. I know last 31 year -- last fall a lot of moose got taken, I was one 32 of the lucky ones that didn't run into one other than 33 two days before the hunting season. I ran into two 34 young bulls but after that I never did see another one. 35 36 I think I'll leave it up to the Council 37 whether they want to go forth with a special action 38 request. 39 40 Go ahead. 41 42 MR. PAPPAS: Sir, I'd like to provide 43 -- George Pappas, OSM. I'd like to provide some 44 clarifications. You have a lot of options here. You 45 have a full pallet of options. It doesn't have to be 46 everything on or off and you said you wanted it 47 shortened. You can have it for one year. You can put 48 in a proposal to the Federal Subsistence Board for say 49 three years, it sunsets out in three years, that's an 50






1 option. You have the option, if you look at the map, 2 you have the whole management area, are there places 3 that you're really concerned about that you hunt the 4 most on Federal public lands. Do you hunt the very far 5 east north part of the Noatak National Preserve. 6 That's -- we're looking for area, if you want the whole 7 thing, length of time, a season. There's all different 8 types of options up for discussion here. I'm bringing 9 this up so you understand too, you've been clear that

10 you want to do something temporary, so you want to do 11 it for one year, two years, three years, that's an 12 option to discuss here. Do you want the all Federal 13 public lands. Do you want BLM lands available. 14 15 This is where the discussion comes 16 forth and this is where you form good proposals. And 17 if that's the case, if you do submit a proposal, OSM 18 Staff, the talented OSM Staff will write an analysis 19 for you and then when they come back with the analysis 20 in the fall you'll have the opportunity to review that 21 analysis and say, well, I talked to folks at home, they 22 want to modify this. Well, then you can offer a 23 modification at that time. 24 25 So there's a lot of -- the whole idea 26 here is to serve you, so further discussion, and I just 27 wanted to provide some different options. But if you 28 want to make it very clear and clean and have one year 29 for the whole area, that's just as easy for us to 30 synthesize and submit to the process. 31 32 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 33 34 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Hannah, go ahead. 35 36 MS. LOON: Tristen addressed a very 37 serious matter concerning his area, which is mostly 38 State. We are not making any closures because State is 39 open to -- on water, any -- any planes with pontoons 40 can come in with water, on the water, that's the 41 difference between Federal and State. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 But if you want us to not include your 46 area, we won't include your area. 47 48 Thank you. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Silvano. 2 3 MR. VIVEIROS: I know there's a motion 4 on the floor for the hunting period for the moose. I 5 just have a problem that I see is there's an increase 6 of predators in our area, I mean they've got the 7 numbers for us, you can read them, maybe the answer is 8 not to close that season, maybe it's to do something 9 with the predators. I mean we have -- like he said, we

10 have a whole bunch of different options. Because if we 11 leave it as is, right now, and the State does their 12 thing, I mean we're already closed to non-residents for 13 State, so Hannah's motion is technically the same 14 thing. 15 16 Am I right or wrong? 17 18 Yeah, I'm right, okay. 19 20 So my other..... 21 22 MR. PAPPAS: Clarification. No, 23 the..... 24 25 MR. VIVEIROS: I'm not, okay. I'm 26 wrong, okay. 27 28 MR. PAPPAS: The difference is a non- 29 resident on the State of Alaska is one thing, they 30 don't live in Alaska, and the other is a Federally- 31 qualified subsistence user. 32 33 MR. VIVEIROS: All right. 34 35 MR. PAPPAS: Like the local folks. So 36 those are the two differences you can also include in a 37 proposal. 38 39 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 40 41 MR. VIVEIROS: So, anyway, thank you 42 for that correction. So there's some other things we 43 can think about as well. You know, it's just something 44 I wanted to throw out there that I was thinking about, 45 that I wanted to share. 46 47 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Louie. 48 49 MR. COMMACK: Thank you. In Upper 50






1 Kobuk we're short of caribou and that creates a 2 hardship. Now, what I'm understanding is there's a 3 proposal to close down the moose. That concerns me. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: George, if you could 8 clarify, you know, this Federal law, when a Federal 9 resource, subsistence resource gets below a certain

10 threshold, that threatens the survival of that 11 subsistence resource that, one, guides and transporters 12 be eliminated, period. Two, land enhancement. Three, 13 predator control. So we have those three issues we 14 need to start taking up on the moose before we lose 15 these animals like we lost the sheep. 16 17 I'd rather nip this in the butt now 18 than later. So we need to look at protecting that 19 subsistence resource, moose. 20 21 You know, it needs to be done. I mean 22 this is the first time in two years I've never gotten a 23 moose before. 24 25 So I just wanted to see if George can 26 clarify that any more than what I have just said. 27 28 MR. PAPPAS: Through the -- Mr. Chair. 29 Not through the Chair, Mr. Chair. As I understand it 30 on Federal public lands, what we have, in the authority 31 of the Federal Subsistence Board is for hunting and 32 fishing on Federal public lands, so that would involve 33 setting limits and seasons for Federally-qualified 34 users, and during times of need or conservation 35 concern, where there's not enough for Federally- 36 qualified subsistence users, other user groups are the 37 first to go. So that is non-Federally-qualified. It 38 doesn't matter if they're a private sporthunter, or a 39 guide, or a transporter, it doesn't matter. If they're 40 not Federally-qualified that would be -- what I've seen 41 in this process, usually the first to potentially be 42 restricted prior to Federally-qualified. Now, if 43 there's not enough for the Federally-qualified alone, 44 not enough to go around, then, and Pippa can really 45 help me on this part, she's an expert in this, then 46 amongst the Federally-qualified users, the Federal 47 Board can prioritize. You know, if you're closer to 48 the resource, there's a bunch of other information if 49 we go that far. 50






1 But as for predator control and 2 manipulation of lands, that's not part of the Federal 3 Subsistence Management Program. That would be 4 something on State lands. 5 6 Now, if you -- you know, I've seen many 7 Regional Advisory Councils liberalize bear hunting 8 seasons, liberalize wolf take, you know, numbers, for 9 folks that want to go out and do it. I mean you might

10 have high harvesters that want to get 40 animals a year 11 for wolves, or what have you, whatever the number is, 12 but you have to remember, this is subsistence, so if 13 you are going to harvest a bear, you have to consume 14 the bear, that's part of the subsistence practices. 15 That's on State public lands. 16 17 Now, for predator control and 18 manipulation of lands, that's a little different and 19 that's out of our realm, but you do have some of the 20 experts here and land managers here that could probably 21 comment on that, but that's not part of our venue; is 22 that correct, Staff. 23 24 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 25 26 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 27 just heard two or three questions come up. And one of 28 the things I wanted -- people are talking about lands 29 and harvestable surplus, so I don't know what the 30 harvestable surplus of moose is in Unit 23 or in 31 different parts of 23, but because the non-resident 32 hunt has been heavily restricted and even closed, that 33 tells us that there's not enough harvestable surplus to 34 meet subsistence needs, and that's one of the reasons 35 why the non-State resident hunt has been restricted. 36 37 The harvest limit for wolf right now is 38 20 wolves so we have a pretty liberal wolf season. You 39 could submit a proposal to increase that -- that's in 40 State regulations. 41 42 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 43 44 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Lisa. 45 46 MS. MAAS: I just wanted to clarify 47 quickly that the non-resident season under State 48 regulations, it's -- they chose not to issue the draw 49 permit, so it's still on the books, but it's like they 50






1 just cancel it every year, they just don't issue the 2 permits, but you'll still see it in the regulation 3 book. And if the Council submits a proposal asking to 4 liberalize a predator season in order to reduce a prey 5 population, I'm not sure that would be a valid..... 6 7 MS. KENNER: State regulations. 8 9 MS. MAAS: .....proposal.

10 11 MS. KENNER: State regulations. 12 13 MS. MAAS: Yeah, I guess you could 14 submit it to the Board of Game but..... 15 16 MS. KENNER: Yeah. 17 18 MS. MAAS: .....if you submit it to the 19 Federal Subsistence Board, I don't think that would be 20 a valid justification. 21 22 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 23 24 MS. LOON: Thank you very much. I'm 25 very overwhelmed now. 26 27 (Laughter) 28 29 MS. LOON: A question for -- I'm sorry, 30 so many things have been said and, please, OSM, are we 31 on -- reading this -- Fish and Wildlife, are we 32 protected under -- here that we are able to hunt moose 33 in Federal lands but not non-Federally -- non-Federally 34 recognized users. Please answer that? Am I repeating 35 the motion that I made, am I making a motion that's 36 already been taken care of because someone just told me 37 that. 38 39 Thank you very much. 40 41 MS. KENNER: Through the Chair. Thank 42 you for that question, Hannah. 43 44 So I think part of what you're asking 45 is we keep talking about non-residents, Federally- 46 qualified users and I think it's -- what's best to 47 explain is that on Federal public lands, except Hard 48 Park, but on Federal public lands in Unit 23, both the 49 State ADF&G regulations, and the Federal regulations 50






1 apply. So Federal regulations only apply to Federally- 2 qualified users. And State regulations apply to both. 3 They apply to both. 4 5 So there has been movement toward 6 closures to limit the harvest of moose, and that is to 7 provide for subsistence uses in State and Federal 8 regulations, subsistence uses, and that's to close the 9 non-resident hunt. People who are not residents of the

10 state can no longer hunt. So for some people that 11 might be the compromise, the sweet spot, that there has 12 been action taken to limit the harvest by non-local 13 people already. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Hannah. 16 17 MS. LOON: Local knowledge tells me 18 we're not supposed to fight about animals, absolutely 19 not. Unless there is someone from the RAC member that 20 would like to present it in another way, right now I 21 would like to take back my motion. I would like -- I 22 don't want to make that motion because being a woman 23 and I don't want to talk about animals. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I think that special 28 action request would be very valuable in protecting the 29 moose population because that eliminates non-local 30 residents. We already have non-residents eliminated. 31 You know with this special action request, you know, 32 the moose population is below a critical threshold 33 already. First to be eliminated would be commercial 34 services, so they would be eliminated, hopefully both 35 State and Federal because I know the State has not 36 issued any permits out, RM880 permits to non-local 37 residents -- or non-residents. 38 39 But, anyways, I think that this special 40 action request will be very beneficial in helping the 41 moose population and the unnecessary harvest of non- 42 residents. It'd be a worthwhile thing to try and see 43 how it does this year, this coming year, it might help 44 us. 45 46 I mean the caribou did. 47 48 You know when we put that special 49 action request in for the caribou it helped us. And 50






3 start harvesting caribou the last couple of years, so 4 that's beginning to benefit the subsistence users. 5 6 I think if we were to go ahead and 7 allow this special action request in for the moose 8 because they've reached a certain critical threshold, a 9 lot of people are depending on moose because they're

10 not seeing caribou so we need to start looking at being 11 able to harvest moose as subsistence users and be able 12 to be the only users of that subsistence resource. 13 14 I mean I support the special action 15 request, do anybody else? There is a motion on the 16 floor. 17 18 MS. KENNER: And just quickly, this is 19 Pippa Kenner from OSM. There hasn't been a second yet, 20 so you guys are still discussing whether to make a 21 motion. 22 23 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: So there's a -- go 24 ahead, Enoch, and then you're next Tristen. 25 26 MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Chair. I request a 27 five minute break. Thank you. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Do you guys agree on 30 a five minute break. Five minutes. 31 32 (Off record) 33 34 (On record) 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, we're ready to 37 reconvene after a recess. Any more questions. 38 39 Silvano. 40 41 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. Silvano Viveiros, 42 Kotzebue. Is your motion pulled back, Hannah. 43 44 MS. LOON: Yes. 45 46 MR. VIVEIROS: We have no motions on 47 the floor right now, right. No, we have no motion. 48 49 MS. ATORUK: There was no second. 50

1 then we got our feet stepped on but, you know, we got

2 some benefits out of that closure, Noatak was able to






1 MR. VIVEIROS: There was no second. 2 3 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: There was no second. 4 5 MR. VIVEIROS: Okay. 6 7 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: So the motion died 8 or..... 9

10 MR. COMMACK: Yeah, the motion died. 11 12 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: All right, the motion 13 died. 14 15 MR. VIVEIROS: So..... 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: If not, I was going 18 to ask her to rescind it, but, go ahead Pookie. 19 20 MR. VIVEIROS: So with that being said. 21 Knowing that we have more reports coming from other 22 individuals and agencies, I would like to see some 23 harvest data on females and bulls from last year and 24 the resident or non-resident hunter, is that possible 25 to get that by tomorrow -- it is, okay. 26 27 So before we do anything, I would like 28 to recommend that we wait until we see all the data. 29 30 I understand that there's a lot of 31 ambition and it's all good but we can make a good sound 32 decision based on more facts and things. So with that 33 being said, I'd like to make a motion to collect some 34 harvest data for the evening from Brandon, sorry to 35 pick on you again, about bulls and the females and 36 resident and non-resident. 37 38 That's my motion. To be presented 39 tomorrow. 40 41 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Harvest -- is it 42 harvest? 43 44 MR. VIVEIROS: Yes, harvest data. 45 46 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. There's a 47 motion on the floor, is there a second. 48 49 MR. MITCHELL: Second. 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Seconded by Enoch. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Quick question, Mr. 4 Chair. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 7 8 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 9 just want to confirm that our State and/or Federal

10 partners can provide us the information that's being 11 requested. 12 13 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 14 15 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: So are we on 16 discussion right now? 17 18 MS. KENNER: Yes. 19 20 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yes, we're on 21 discussion. 22 23 MR. VIVEIROS: Yes. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Does anybody else 26 have anything regarding this motion. 27 28 (No comments) 29 30 MR. MITCHELL: Question called for. 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. We'll go ahead 33 and vote for this, all in favor for approval of getting 34 harvest data from communities, region-wide, or Game 35 Management Unit wide, say aye. 36 37 IN UNISON: Aye. 38 39 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Motion passed. Any 40 nays. 41 42 (No opposing votes) 43 44 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: No nays. Okay, do 45 you guys have anything further -- go ahead. 46 47 MS. KENNER: A little off topic, Mr. 48 Chair. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead. 2 3 MS. KENNER: This is Pippa Kenner with 4 OSM. Concerning Mr. Pattee's question, I want to make 5 a clarification to that about closures on Federal 6 public lands and on Cape Krusenstern National Monument, 7 the Kobuk Valley National Park and Gates of the Arctic 8 are all closed to non-Federally-qualified users and 9 those are all always. So the Hard Park, Gates of the

10 Arctic, Kobuk and Cape Krusenstern are closed to the 11 harvest to subsistenceuses by non-Federally-qualified-- 12 non-local users all the time. 13 14 Thank you. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else. 17 18 Lisa. 19 20 MS. MAAS: Yeah, so this is still -- I 21 mean the call for wildlife proposals will be open all 22 meeting but if anyone else has another proposal, you 23 know, now is the time to bring it up. 24 25 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody. 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: I know one thing I 30 forgot to ask Marcy Okada for Gates of the Arctic, you 31 know, the sheep harvest -- I know there's a little 32 sliver of the Gates of Arctic that's open, I forgot to 33 ask Marcy Okada whether there was any harvest within 34 that area. 35 36 Marcy are you on? 37 38 MS. OKADA: Marcy Okada, National Park 39 Service, Gates of the Arctic. And in regards to Mr. 40 Chair's question, we don't currently -- as the Park 41 Service, we don't currently track harvest, sheep 42 harvest in that western portion of Gates of the Arctic. 43 In years past it's been pretty minimal harvest. 44 Harvest is limited in the Hard Park to Ambler, Shungnak 45 and Kobuk since they're resident zone communities of 46 Gates of the Arctic. In the Kobuk, the southern 47 Preserve Unit of Gates of the Arctic, that's a Preserve 48 and there's little to no sheep habitat in that southern 49 Preserve unit. 50






1 MS. KENNER: Marcy, this is Pippa with 2 OSM, did you mean moose? 3 4 MS. MAAS: No, sheep, he asked about 5 sheep. 6 7 MS. KENNER: Oh, sheep. 8 9 MS. OKADA: If I heard correctly, was

10 Mr. Chair asking a sheep harvest question. I know you 11 guys were talking about moose. But moose wise we don't 12 also track harvest of moose, we don't have that data 13 for moose harvest. Sorry if I was mistaken about 14 sheep. 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, thank you, 17 Marcy. Yeah, I just wanted to find out if there was 18 any information because I know that one little section 19 of the Gates of the Arctic is open and I was talking 20 about sheep. 21 22 We'll go ahead and continue on with 23 moose. 24 25 Thank you, Marcy. 26 27 MS. OKADA: Thanks. Bye. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Any further questions 30 on moose. I know we had a motion on the floor, we all 31 voted. Next on the agenda, where'd my co-captain go -- 32 he's gone. Call for Federal wildlife proposals. Next 33 is Council charter reviews on the agenda. 34 35 MS. SWEENEY: Mr. Chairman. 36 37 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yes, way back there. 38 39 MS. SWEENEY: This is Brittany Sweeney 40 again. Before you move on from the proposals, earlier 41 when I was talking about caribou you started to talk 42 about a caribou proposal on the bull closure, and I 43 kind of had you wait and I don't want to like -- I 44 don't want you to forget that now so I'm reminding you 45 that you were kind of interested, or you seemed 46 interested in talking about a caribou proposal too. So 47 before you move on, I just wanted to remind you of that 48 discussion. 49 50






1 We had talked about the removing the 2 fall closure for bulls. 3 4 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, with that being 5 said, would anybody like to make a motion on reopening 6 the bulls from October 14th through..... 7 8 MR. STEVENSON: You're doing caribou or 9 moose now?

10 11 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Caribou. She was 12 just bringing up caribou because we did have that on 13 the table and we discussed reopening the bulls but we 14 didn't get anywhere with that. So now what we need is 15 we need a motion to change that regulation to where we 16 reopen bulls from October 31st to -- or no, October 17 14th -- correction -- October 14th to -- I'll try to 18 find it. 19 20 (Pause) 21 22 MS. SWEENEY: Mr. Chairman. The 23 current Federal closure for caribou bulls is the -- it 24 closes October 31st and it opens again February 1st. 25 So it's closed during November, December and January. 26 So if you wanted to make a motion, you could just say 27 remove that closure or open those months again. 28 29 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. So in other 30 words, we're reopening from October 14th to February 31 1st for bulls; am I correct, that's the section that's 32 closed but we're reopening that to bulls. 33 34 MS. MAAS: Yeah, I mean there's two 35 hunt areas in Unit 23 and the bull closure is slightly 36 different, but if your intent is to just remove that 37 bull closure in all of Unit 23, you can just say that 38 and we understand your intent. 39 40 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah. 41 42 MS. LOON: Mr. Chairman. 43 44 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yeah, go ahead, 45 Hannah. 46 47 MS. LOON: I make a motion to remove 48 that bull regulation as she stated. 49 50






1 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: There's a motion on 2 the floor, do I have a second. 3 4 MR. PATTEE: I second it. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: We have a second. 7 Those all in favor of reopening the bull harvest from 8 October 14th to February 1st, all those in favor please 9 say aye.

10 11 IN UNISON: Aye. 12 13 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Unanimous. Any nays. 14 15 (No opposing votes) 16 17 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: No nays. Motion is 18 passed. Thank you, Lisa. 19 20 Is there anything else Lisa. 21 22 MS. MAAS: Oh, just consult with Zach 23 if you feel like there's already enough on the record 24 for justification or if you'd like them to restate it 25 now. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Go ahead, Zach. 28 29 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 30 would request that the Council briefly restate the 31 justification for the motion that just passed 32 unanimously. 33 34 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: So the motion that 37 has been brought up was reopening the bull season from 38 October 14th to February 1st. So that would be 39 reopened all the way to June 30th, so it will be open 40 from July 1 to June 30th, it'll be open year-round, am 41 I correct, yeah, it'll be opened year-round according 42 to this, the bull season. So that's what the motion 43 that just passed was to reopen that section of the bull 44 season. 45 46 Go ahead, Silvano, any questions. 47 48 MR. VIVEIROS: Is there a -- is it open 49 to resident or non-resident or what's the, you know, 50






1 who is it open to? 2 3 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: This is opened to 4 Federally-qualified subsistence users because if I 5 recall there's a special action request that the 6 Federal Subsistence Board put in place to protect our 7 caribou herd last fall, was it, because there was a gap 8 in the -- was that the Federal Subsistence meeting, I'm 9 trying to recall that.

10 11 Go ahead, Zach. 12 13 MR. STEVENSON: To clarify, Pookie, and 14 I'll -- to clarify right now, what we're asking is for 15 the Council to provide a justification for the motion 16 that was just passed for the record, why -- why has the 17 Council adopted a motion to reopen the bull season in 18 Unit 23 from October 14 to February 1st. 19 20 That was the question. 21 22 Thank you. 23 24 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: That was for the 25 local subsistence users to be able to take young bulls. 26 That's the main purpose of reopening this little 27 portion of the bull harvest was for allowing people to 28 take young bulls and that was the main reason behind 29 it. 30 31 Go ahead, Zach. 32 33 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 34 I wanted to confirm that that provides OSM Wildlife 35 Division with clarification on the justification behind 36 the action just taken. 37 38 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 39 40 MR. VIVEIROS: I was just -- I wanted 41 to have somebody state and clarify for the listening 42 audience because I don't think it was stated, so thank 43 you. 44 45 MR. PATTEE: Are we giving 46 justification individually or as a group? I mean do I 47 give my own justification on why I voted in favor. 48 49 MS. MAAS: Yeah, through the Chair. I 50






1 mean your individual justification is kind of the same 2 as the whole Council's, you know, you are part of the 3 Council. 4 5 MR. PATTEE: Oh, okay. 6 7 MS. MAAS: So, yes, please give your 8 justification. 9

10 MR. PATTEE: So I could give my 11 justification. 12 13 MS. MAAS: Yes. 14 15 MR. PATTEE: So I could give my 16 justification if you'd like. 17 18 MS. MAAS: Yes. 19 20 MR. PATTEE: So the reason that I voted 21 in favor for this is because the last couple years, two 22 or three years the migration pattern has changed. A 23 lot of the residents in Ambler, they usually go to 24 Onion Portage and they're almost guaranteed to catch a 25 caribou to fill up their freezers for the rest of the 26 season. Lately they've been showing up at much 27 different times, much later and it was always a hit or 28 miss. People are spending large amounts of money on 29 gas just to go an hour away to get their caribou. With 30 this action I think it's going to take the pressure off 31 of them to actually get their caribou in that 32 particular timeframe, you know, it'll give them more 33 time to actually fill up their freezers throughout the 34 entire season and I think that would be a benefit to 35 them all. 36 37 Thank you. 38 39 MS. MAAS: Thank you. 40 41 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: And the other reason 42 was I think that way it would take some weight off the 43 cows, the pressure off the cows, they'd start taking 44 younger bulls. Younger bulls don't get the option to 45 breed, just the bigger bulls, that way it would take a 46 lot of the pressure of the cows. That is the main 47 purpose of this special action request, or not special 48 action request, I mean -- sorry -- motion, regulation 49 change -- I'm getting myself confused here, to reopen 50






1 that. 2 3 MS. MAAS: All right, that's great, 4 thank you. 5 6 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Thank you. Any other 7 questions. Pookie's scratching his hand anybody. 8 9 (Laughter)

10 11 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Anybody else have 12 anything on that one. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: No. Okay, what's 17 next on our agenda, the Council..... 18 19 MR. STEVENSON: Charter review. 20 21 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: .....charter review. 22 23 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 24 might..... 25 26 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Page 68. Go ahead 27 Zach. 28 29 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 30 We're going to come -- as the Chair had mentioned a 31 moment ago, we will come back to tomorrow -- the 32 decision of this Council on the moose proposal and 33 transitioning on to the next agenda item, on Page -- 34 the meeting book is incorrect, it's Page 67, not Page 35 68. On Page 67 of your meeting book you'll see the 36 Council charter. 37 38 The Council charter is basically the 39 rules that govern how this Council and other Councils 40 throughout the state operate. Every couple -- there's 41 a -- every -- there's a period of time where the 42 Councils are given a chance to determine whether those 43 rules of the road are changed. I have some standard 44 language that has been shared at all of our Council 45 meetings so that we're consistent in our ask to the 46 Council but the -- the basic message to this Council 47 is, do you want to make any changes to those rules, the 48 charter. 49 50






1 So here's the information I have to 2 share with you and then I'll briefly explain this in 3 non-lawyer language when I'm done. 4 5 Under the Federal Advisory Committee 6 Act you have a charter that's renewed every two years, 7 so the year before it renews, we just have a discussion 8 to see if there's anything you want to change. 9

10 Now, about 98 percent of what is in 11 your charter is actually required by the Federal 12 Advisory Act and it's implementing policy so you can't' 13 change that language. But you can make changes to the 14 name of your Council; the number of members on your 15 Council because all Councils were originally started 16 with 10 members and three of them have changed to 13 17 members to reflect their regions better; you can also 18 modify a membership balance. What kind of balance will 19 you have serving your Council to represent the region 20 well and all of the Councils have one, the provision to 21 have 70 percent of the people on the Council represent 22 subsistence users and 30 percent represent commercial 23 and sport, and there's a note and I'll get back to that 24 when I'm done reading this information here. And 25 there's an example and the example is that in one 26 region, the Kodiak/Aleutians Council has actually added 27 geographic membership balance to indicate that their 28 goal is to have four members from the Kodiak 29 Archipelago and three from the Alaska Peninsula and 10 30 [sic] from the Aleutian Pribilof Islands. Because that 31 region is so spread out, the Council wanted to state 32 that having broader geographic representation is a 33 value for them. 34 35 So those are essentially the key 36 provisions or changes that you can make. 37 38 So if you're happy with everything in 39 the charter, or as it's written, then we can go ahead 40 and forward it. 41 42 So that's the information. 43 44 And then the note, that I mentioned 45 just a moment ago, was that back in 2003, in November 46 of 2003, the Secretary of the Interior, with 47 concurrence from the Secretary of Agriculture 48 established a goal of making appointments to the 49 Council so as to achieve, where possible, a 50






1 representation goal of 70 percent subsistence users and 2 30 percent sport and commercial users. This ratio is a 3 goal, rather than an absolute requirement. The Council 4 member selection process depends on, or is dependent on 5 the applications received. And some of the regions do 6 not have a sufficient number of resident [sic] and 7 commercial and sport use applicants to fill 30 percent 8 of the seats. 9

10 So that's all the information that I 11 have here and if I may provide a non-lawyer explanation 12 of that. 13 14 What that last note means is that the 15 goal of the Kodiak -- of 70/30 percent, 70 percent 16 subsistence use, 30 percent commercial sport is a goal 17 and this Council, OSM cannot determine whether or not 18 we'll meet that goal, it all depends upon who applies, 19 and ultimately who gets appointed to serve on the 20 Council. It's a goal. It's an aspiration. And 21 sometimes we meet it and sometimes we don't. 22 23 That's all I had to share. 24 25 And the question now before the Council 26 is, do you want to make any changes to your charter. 27 28 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 29 30 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Does the Council want 31 to review it for a few minutes and then make a 32 decision. 33 34 (Council nods affirmatively) 35 36 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: It looks like we're 37 going to review this and we'll come back in a few 38 minutes. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Do you wish to take a 41 10 minute break to review your charter. 42 43 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Is that the wish of 44 the Board, five minutes, 10 minutes. 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: Yeah, we have to wrap 47 up at 5:00 so it might be a short break. 48 49 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Five minutes. 50






1 MR. STEVENSON: Or over night, we could 2 break now and review it over night. 3 4 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: If you guys want to 5 go ahead and break right now and then do it tomorrow. 6 7 (Council nods affirmatively) 8 9 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay. We'll go ahead

10 and take this on tomorrow, charter review, that's where 11 we'll start tomorrow morning and give us some time to 12 look it over. Does everybody agree. 13 14 (Council nods affirmatively) 15 16 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Yes. 17 18 MS. LOON: Can you please specify the 19 page. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: 67. 22 23 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: 67. 24 25 MS. LOON: Thank you. 26 27 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Meeting adjourned for 28 the day. 29 30 (Council nods affirmatively) 31 32 CHAIRMAN KRAMER: Okay, meeting's 33 adjourned. 34 35 (Off record) 36 37 (PROCEEDINGS TO BE CONTINUED) 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50






1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify:

10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 NORTHWEST ARCTIC ALASKA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL 14 ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME I taken electronically 15 on the 9th day of April in Kotzebue, Alaska; 16 17 THAT the transcript is a true and 18 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 19 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 20 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 21 ability; 22 23 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 24 party interested in any way in this action. 25 26 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 26th 27 day of May 2019. 28 29 30 31 Salena A. Hile 32 Notary Public, State of Alaska 33 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50


northwest arctic federal subsistence regional … · my name is zach stevenson. i'm 34 the...

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