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C. F. 91022260920
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PRESS CONFERENCE FOR THE PRESENTATION OF THE PROJECT
"OLTRESUONI"
APRIL 20, 2012, 10:30 A.M.
Council Chamber of the City of Cagliari
- Speakers:
• Michele Demontis, Vice President of TDM 2000 and Press Officer for onA.I.R.;
• Carlo Eugeni, HR Manager for onA.I.R.;
• Luca Frongia, President of TDM 2000;
• Francesca Marchionne, President of onA.I.R.;
• Salvatore Meloni, President of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf
Association);
• Giuliano Pirelli, Honorary President of onA.I.R. and official at the European Commission.
- Comments and questions:
• Gianfranco Cappai, former President of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf
Association);
• Luciana Ledda, Secretary of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf Association)
and sign language interpreter;
• Daniela Noli, President of the Authority for the Right to University Education of Cagliari.
- Beginning of the conference 10:45 a.m.
Michele Demontis
Good morning, welcome to the presentation of the project “OltreSuoni”. On my right you can
see Mister Pirelli and Dr. Carlo Eugeni. On my left Francesca Marchionne, President of the
International Association on Respeaking, and Luca Frongia, President of the Association TDM
2000.
Before going on, I would like to ask you to be very silent and to pay attention to the screens
located on your sides.Now I give the floor to Dr. Carlo Eugeni.
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Carlo Eugeni
Good morning, you are reading the text I am dictating into the mask you see. Right now you
are experiencing the reading of a text pronounced orally. Technology can be imperfect.
Mistakes can occur in the text you're reading, but just think that for some people, the deaf, this
is the only way they can listen to television. The potential of this technology is enormous: not
only television, but also telephone conversations, TV programs, meetings and university
lectures can be subtitled and thus be readily available to these people. We had the idea of
subtitling the radio. Do you think it's a good idea? If yes, please follow this press conference.
Michele, I give you the floor.
Michele Demontis
Thanks to Dr. Carlo Eugeni for this short introduction he just showed us. We began with this
speech, which has been subtitled by means of respeaking, because today we are here to
present a project aiming at creating a radio station accessible to the deaf. This project was
born thanks to the cooperation between the International Association on Respeaking and the
Association TDM 2000 from Cagliari. I would like to invite Luca to summarize the subject
matters, meaning and guidelines of this project.
Luca Frongia
Good morning, everybody. I'm also trying to learn some sign language. It will take some time,
but I hope that “good morning” was signed correctly. Before illustrating the project, I brought
here from home my grandfather's radio. This radio was often contended between Gigliola
Cinquetti, my grandma's favourite singer, and soccer matches. Things were different back
then, but my grandparents, who then influenced my parents and me, have always been very
fond of the radio as a way to spread content.
Back then, these contents came from few. You needed to attend many courses, pass
competitive exams and be one of the lucky ones who could actually speak at those huge mikes
and spread joy while recounting the world of many years ago. With the new technologies, the
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Internet and many other systems, we started wondering how we could give many other
people the chance to actually express their thoughts. We wanted to give more people the
right, the chance to express their ideas. We wanted to ensure that everybody, or at least as
many as possible, have the chance to talk. We have pondered this idea and together with the
people of the Association TDM 2000 we decided to launch a web radio. This web radio project,
which was designed in 2008, then realized in 2009 and is still carried on in our municipality,
enables many young people to express their ideas, to create contents, to have a place where
they can discuss sport, music, culture, the environment, a place where they can discuss
politics in a young and fresh way with their colleagues and friends. Not only in our city
through FM frequencies, but online. This message can reach the whole world, this is very
important because it gives us a real sense of citizenship, not only at local, but also at
international level. Ours is not the first experiment of this kind of web radio, there are many
more in Europe, but this radio wants to do more. Where is the innovation? The innovation is
the creation of a radio giving all those who are now excluded from it the chance of receiving
content. Now, how does a web radio work exactly? Speakers use a microphone. The
microphones are connected to a computer. The computer creates a signal which is then sent
via computer to people whose computer is on, so that they can receive the information. With
the respeaking technique – which will be illustrated shortly – we will be able not only to listen
to this content, but also to read it. We will thus provide the opportunity to promote our ideas,
to present our content and share what is happening. In this way we can help other people take
part in it. The deaf, but not only, immigrants as well. Just imagine how difficult it is for
immigrants to receive information via auditory channels when they could receive it in writing,
instead, and be able to process it. Not only. Having a written text enables its easier and
quicker storage: it can be stored in an information system and be accessed whenever we
want. This really means a lot. I don't want to take up too much time, but you can surely
understand why I consider this initiative as highly innovative, as something which responds
to a real need. This something also makes me realize its remarkable economic consequences,
which could ensure many things: the chance to improve... The chance to perceive information
and thus the chance for other people, too, to process contents and express their ideas, because
the radio narrates, can be read and through Skype, Messenger, Easy Tune and Twitter it also
enables the expression of one's point of view. It really is an activity based on active
participation, inclusion; beyond the many words we often pronounce, this system allows the
majority of people to participate. We should test it; the project has been activated, but what is
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its goal in the end? Its goal is to be able to verify what and how much people understand.
There will be a scientific committee – and we will hear more about it from the participants –
which will create and compare figures and statistics so that we can understand how to apply
this system to other fields and how functional the system really is. I'm thinking of the
commentary for a soccer match. I'm thinking of a good history book read aloud. I'm thinking
of how it would be if everybody could hear what is going on in this hall while we are talking
about themes we're interested in and if these contents could be collected and discussed at a
later time. I think I can now end this introduction; now I'm also very curious to know how this
technique works.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Luca. Next to me Dr. Carlo Eugeni, who is the major expert in this field in Italy,
keeps subtitling what we are saying in real time; we hope this won’t be the exception, but it
will become a well-established practice in the future. This hall is obviously not equipped yet
for this technique, but we hope that in the future every major hall will be. I hereby give the
floor to the President of the International Association on Respeaking, Francesca Marchionne,
who is the actual promoter of the project; she will tell us more about respeaking.
Francesca Marchionne
Good morning. The International Association on Respeaking was founded with the aim of
applying this technique, which is both new and not new and which is just starting to spread, to
a problem which is very important for us, as Luca said: real-time access to information. There
are a lot of radios in Italy and all over the world, there is a lot of information which makes it
impossible for the deaf, those who have other kinds of hearing problems as well as foreigners
who don't master the language of the place where they live to take part in initiatives and real-
time debates. The project “OltreSuoni” can partly solve this problem by creating a written text.
Now you can see it live as it scrolls on the screens on our sides. It is not perfect because, as
Michele said, the hall is not equipped for it, but it is still possible. On a technical level,
respeaking requires an operator, called respeaker – in this case it's Carlo Eugeni – who
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repeats, reformulates or translates a text while dictating it to a speech recognition software.
This software transforms an oral text into a written one which can have various forms. In this
case it's a continuous text, but it can also be made of subtitles. This is what we would like to
do with the web radio, RadioXCaso, of the Association TDM 2000. This is just one respeaking
method. Here we have only one respeaker who both dictates to the software and corrects the
mistakes the machine sometimes makes when recognizing speech; in other cases there is
another person who only corrects the text before it is broadcast live. I end my presentation
here and give the floor to the experts in the field, especially Mister Pirelli, who did us the huge
favour of being here with us today and who will explain why he's interested in this project.
Thank you.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Francesca. I would like to clarify one thing. Without Mister Pirelli we would not be
here today talking about this important subject. It is thus an honour and a pleasure to give the
floor to Mister Pirelli.
Giuliano Pirelli
Thank you for the beautiful words with which you’ve welcomed me. I am considered, or at
least Carlo considers me, as the founder, the creator of respeaking and of speech recognition; I
am indeed among those who first thought of this. Twenty years ago, when there was nothing,
not even subtitled television, I somehow started the first trials with a group of young deaf
people and in time things have been refined. I was lucky to work as engineer and researcher
at the Research Centre of the European Commission and to be supported by the Commission
itself in pursuing this field of research. This is how we began to subtitle, to use all the
subtitling methods which were available ten years ago – and were still unstable, experimental,
– to integrate them with a video camera or a projector and somehow we were able to make
subtitled conferences, to have RAI, BBC and other European televisions involved and thus to
increase awareness about this problem. The project I was responsible for was called VOICE; in
1996 it started as a research project, in 1998 we achieved the first results, we organized many
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conferences with thousands of participants, we raised awareness in a lot of associations for
the deaf, or better: we gave these associations the means to talk, to negotiate with the various
televisions and to request knowingly what they really needed. Right now I don't want to
discuss more details. I would like to say that the reason I am here is not only technical; it's the
enthusiasm for these young people, who are as enthusiastic as I was twenty years ago. They
are skilled, they try a new field and they do this in Sardinia, with a web radio which is local,
but is accessible online all around the world. This group of young people wants to focus on an
interesting social topic; they can do it both in Sardinia and when they are travelling, when
they study in Rome, somewhere else or in the United States. This larger scope will prove it's
possible to help the deaf and the foreigners who do not master the language be part of a large,
innovative social group which can build something new in the footsteps of this project. Thank
you.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Mister Pirelli. Now it's about time to give the floor to Dr. Carlo Eugeni, who is
working as respeaker today. It's extremely exhausting, as he will tell us. Maybe we can ask
him to speak without creating subtitles, in this way his vocal cords can rest a little. This is a
technical point. Usually, as Francesca can confirm, conferences are subtitled by people taking
turns.
Francesca Marchionne
Yes, just like interpreters, who generally switch after 20 or 30 minutes, respeakers usually do
the same, but, as we were saying earlier, this hall is not equipped for respeaking; here we
merely have an insulated microphone which can only detect the respeaker's voice. However,
we would also need more computers and connections and this is not possible today. In other
circumstances, I would have replaced Carlo, I would have set my voice profile and done the
respeaking while he talks. Today it's not possible. Carlo will thus speak without being
respoken.
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Michele Demontis
Please, Carlo.
Carlo Eugeni
I'm sorry that the screen has now turned black, but I cannot do two things at the same time;
actually, I could, but then you would have to read on the screens what I say. Let's say that for
today you have read enough. Maybe in time you'll get used to reading the radio instead of
listening to it and it will become easier. Actually it's also difficult for me to talk and be
subtitled at the same time. Technology makes it possible, but, as we said earlier, it's not easy
to do it if the hall is not equipped for it. Moreover, the technology we're using is still
experimental, as is this project. According to history, and not to my opinion, respeaking began
with the project VOICE, launched by Giuliano Pirelli. The BBC began to use this technique on
television only in 2001. Mr. Pirelli had begun promoting it 5 years before at the JRC, the
European Commission's Joint Research Centre. Back then I had just finished high school. Or
maybe I was already attending university, but that’s not the point. I joined the project VOICE
only in 2006, when the first international conference on this subject took place. Since then,
respeaking has been researched more and more; as you can see, respeaking now enables to
access contents which would have not been accessible 10 years ago, such as... The radio, as we
are explaining, but think of a telephone call between two persons. We can subtitle it, too. It's
possible to subtitle cinema even when the movie theatre lacks the technical instrumentation
to receive subtitles. It's possible to subtitle television: in Italy subtitles are available at page
777 of the teletext; these subtitles are partly pre-recorded and partly done in real time. As to
the web radio, the technology we're using is produced by SyNTHEMA from Pisa, which is both
a research centre and a software house. The software enables the respeakers, who need an
internet connection, to access a speech recognition software, which I have on my PC right
now. The software broadcasts the subtitles on the website of the radio. As you can see,
anywhere in the world it's very easy to subtitle any radio located anywhere else. This project
enables the launch of what in my opinion... This project will enable to launch something which
in a few years will probably be widely used, because the radio can reach people all over the
world; with a bigger audience, the technique can develop further.
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The project “OltreSuoni”. There will be a study group, composed of linguists, sociologists and
teachers who can speak the Italian sign language, to research the actual efficacy of respeaking.
Research has indeed been done before, but this time it's focussed on subtitling a web radio. In
this way we can understand the actual usefulness of subtitling a web radio, which has
obviously an economic value linked to the amplification of a kind of communication which in
the past was not accessible to the deaf. The deaf are not only those who speak sign language.
Due to various factors, in our society people of younger age start to lose their sense of hearing.
This begins at 25, 30, 40 years of age and is due to lifestyles damaging our sense of hearing,
like the use of earphones. I do not want to lecture you here, but these lifestyles gradually lead
to the loss of the sense of hearing. The potential audience is thus quite large, not just one per
mil, as stated in the statistics, it’s much larger. It's around as many as 7 or 8% of the
population, which means four to five million people, if compared to Italy’s 60 million
inhabitants. It’s four, five million people who are people to all intents and purposes. They
work and have money. Imagine the huge potential for a company wanting to advertise its
products. Let us not forget the foreigners. Foreigners, like deaf people, have problems
accessing the language. Seeing the written language helps completing the information which
is not fully perceived when relying only on listening. I think I have given you a general
overview. I know two minutes are not enough to explain the importance of the event, but we
are in a position similar to that of Giuliano in 1996, when he invented this technique. The
revolution will have roughly the same impact, although back then he was ten years ahead of
his time. We're still ahead, but now we have the technology to do what he could not do ten
years ago. Fifteen years ago. Thank you.
Michele Demontis
Thanks to Carlo, who is not only a professor and expert in this field, but will also co-direct the
Scientific Committee of the project. During the planning phase of this initiative we had the
chance to meet some extraordinary people of the National Deaf Association of the province
Cagliari, who immediately showed us their support. It's a pleasure to invite President Meloni
to talk to us today and tell us something about the National Deaf Association and the role it
can play in the project “OltreSuoni”.
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Salvatore Meloni
Right now I'm so excited that I can feel my heart pounding. Thank you. Thanks to the
Association TDM, to President Luca Frongia, to Francesca, the President of the Association
OnA.I.R., and to poor Carlo Eugeni for his efforts in providing us all with subtitles, but above
all thanks, obviously, to Mister Pirelli. I share this idea, this project, because it aims at
breaking down communication barriers, which are a huge problem for us. We hope that in the
future this project can improve further. We'll be happy to cooperate. We thank you again for
this project, which is very interesting. Thank you.
Francesca Marchionne
We're not crazy. This is an applause in the sign language. First something important as
president of the International Association on Respeaking, with the project “OltreSuoni”: we
absolutely do not want to substitute sign language with subtitles. We just want to go a step
further and combine the two techniques. This is very important, because sign language is a
language, the same as Italian, French or English. I especially want to underscore this.
Respeaking, subtitling, the creation of a written text are merely a complement for all those
who do not speak sign language.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Francesca. I think we can now answer questions from the audience and the press.
Please.
Luciana Ledda
Good morning, let me introduce myself. I'm the secretary of the National Deaf Association,
Luciana, and I'm also an Italian sign language interpreter. As to what Francesca has just said, I
would like to underscore that, even within the world of the deaf, not everybody has the same
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degree of deafness, not everybody grew up in the same way and not all of them use sign
language. This project surely supports the aim of breaking down architectural barriers,
because it also includes all those deaf people who usually do not take advantage of
interpreting. As interpreters we would obviously like to be always present when it comes to
communication and integration between hearing and deaf people, but this project increases
even more the independence of the deaf, who can thus freely decide whether to have an
interpreter or to use these instruments to autonomously access any kind of communication;
this is why, as interpreter, I thank you all.
Michele Demontis
Thanks to you, Luciana, for the help you're giving us. In this regard, we, as TDM 2000, always
suggest to actively participate in all our projects. In this specific case a group of deaf people
and a group of hearing people will take part together in the experiment with reference to the
access to programs and to the relevant debate. I thus call for anyone who might be interested
in participating: you're more than welcome. We'll probably start around mid-May, as soon as
we complete the technical part. The experiment will proceed as follows: the participants will
listen to certain radio programs broadcast both in traditional way and with respoken
subtitles; they will then have a debate about these programs. I'll give you an example. There
will be a program about politics, sport or society and the participants will first listen to this
program and then use telematic instruments, such as an online forum, a Facebook group, etc.,
to have a debate about the contents of the program. Are there any questions?
Gianfranco Cappai
Good morning. I'm the former President of the National Deaf Association. My name is
Gianfranco Cappai. I would like to share my thoughts. This project will undergo a 6 months'
trial period. I'd like to know whether, after the 6 months, we'll still be able to cooperate with
the project as deaf, as National Deaf Association, especially because it's a great chance to
promote integration between deaf and hearing people.
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Francesca Marchionne
The project “OltreSuoni” is presented as an experimental project, a pilot project which aims at
acting as springboard for further activities in which the deaf are essential. Their perspective is
essential. In this case I speak in the name of my association, but I think that TDM 2000 will
also be interested in continuing the cooperation for their specific field of interest, active
citizenship, beyond the scope of the project. I give the floor to Luca who will tell you more.
Luca Frongia
The main focus of our daily activities is the promotion of active citizenship for all the
members of our community, but we especially want to include people with difficulties, so that
they can overcome barriers thanks to innovations and passion. Right now we do not only
work with the people leading the local government, we especially work with European funds.
We identified two or three items which would provide us with the resources to extend this
project to 18 or 24 months after the end of the project; this would not only enable to
strengthen the experimentation, but also to divulge its results. Regardless of the economic
resources we may or may not receive in the future, the web radio gives us the possibility to
have this technology and this functionality for free. The combination of our passion, our spirit
of enterprise and our volunteer work makes it possible to offer this service in the long term.
The point is to be sympathetic and sensitive towards other people's needs. The point is to
achieve more than mere economic resources. This means achieving self-respect by helping
someone else. This is the biggest reward, in my opinion, the greatest pleasure anyone can
experience. This is how we have always understood it. We'll have the chance to help each
other, like Carlo is helping us today; he's teaching us something. We convey what we know to
other people. Other people will give their contribution and convey what they know to other
people; this will create a better world. This is, in my opinion, the meaning of our daily
activities; the same applies to the activities of many other associations which aim at creating a
city which is more agreeable and useful for everyone.
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Michele Demontis
I would like to add a long-term perspective. We'll carry out a time-limited experimentation
lasting 6 months in the form of a pilot project. Our final goal for a relatively close future is to
transform today's pilot project into a well-established service used by most radio stations. We
are not trying to prove to be particularly smart or brilliant. We're here today because we have
identified a route to follow which, in our opinion, can and must be followed. The use of
technology as a support for disabilities is, in our opinion, the real instrument of social
inclusion. We shall not segregate, we shall include. This is the final aim of the project. We hope
that, within 3 or 4 years, respeaking will be available in all radio stations, at least the main
ones, and that meetings like this one will no longer be an exception, will no longer be
extraordinary, but something utterly normal.
Luca Frongia
I want to leave time for questions, but I urge you to think, even for just a few seconds, about
the possibility of using respeaking to learn a language. With this system the language learning
rates for various languages are very high. Imagine to be somewhere and not to understand the
language. It's typical for us Italians abroad. It happens a lot. Imagine to have a respeaker
translating from English into Italian and providing you also with a written text you can then
keep. Online you can thus obtain a translation you can use on your PC, or you can download it
as podcast or save it on your smartphone or iPhone. The uses of this instrument are countless,
which also gives young people many opportunities to specialize, to contribute to this
development or to play a small role within larger realities. And in the end their role wouldn’t
be quite that small.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Luca. Are there other questions? Please.
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Daniela Noli
I have two technical questions. First of all I’ll introduce myself. I am Daniela Noli, President of
the Authority for the Right to University Education. I wanted to ask: you mentioned the
equipment of the hall. As I think of university students, I would like to know what this means
in practical terms. Moreover, I think you're collecting names of people who would like to take
part in the experimental project. I would like to know more about it, what features shall the
participants have? How much time would be necessary? The project lasts six months, but
what about every day? Would the participants be busy every day? For how long? Or maybe
once a week, once a month? What kind of data will you collect? Your “we want to know how
this instrument works” is too vague. And I would also like to know how it works and how you
will collect the data.
Francesca Marchionne
I'll answer the technical question as to the equipment of the hall and the features of
respeaking. First of all Carlo should not be here. Today it's possible because he brought a
soundproof microphone called Stenomask which can recognize his voice only. The respeaker
can be here with us also because you're completely silent. Usually a respeaker works, like a
simultaneous interpreter, in a soundproof booth with a headset, so that he only hears the
audio input. He has a computer with speech recognition software, in order to ensure optimal
recognition and results. Moreover, respeakers work in turns, which means that more
computers are connected to the screens. We were somewhat worried because these screens
are on the side, but I see that they work anyway. We thought it would be better to use natural
light and no lamps to avoid reflection. This is how the hall has to be equipped. The screen shall
be visible for everyone, the whole public. In university halls the screen shall possibly... It shall
be visible like a PowerPoint, exactly. In a university lecture the screen should probably be
behind the professor. If the respeaker has to be present, he also needs an instrument like the
Stenomask or an online system like the one we'll use with the web radio. This system enables
a respeaker to work from home and to offer his services in total isolation: he receives the
audio input and uses the software to broadcast the subtitles directly to the university hall, in
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this case. As to our trial project and the working schedule, I leave the floor to Michele. Or
maybe Carlo wants to answer, too.
Michele Demontis
Carlo, who is the president of the Scientific Committee.
Carlo Eugeni
Yes. As to the experimentation, one of our projects has already been tested. It covers
comprehension, reception and perception of the text content. Comprehension, reception and
perception are, for those who do not know, three different aspects of the reception of a text.
For example you think you understood something when in reality you were supposed to
understand something else. This is just a rough example. The team will obviously focus every
time on a different kind of text; they will use a grid I can show you later, if you want. Right
now I do not have one to show to everybody. This grid has been tested in the European
project "Digital TV for All" and makes it possible to understand how much someone has really
understood of the subtitles through the comparison not with what has actually been said, but
with what a hearing person understood. A mistake is often made in this field, in the field of the
comprehension of a written text by the deaf: the mistake is to compare the understanding of a
deaf person with the meaning of the source text and not with the comprehension of hearing
people. This is an essential point, because when hearing people listen to a text, they do not
necessarily understand 100% of what is said, comprehension often amounts to 60%. So we
can assume for instance that deaf people understand 50%. If we compare this percentage to
the meaning of a text the way it was written by its author, the result is that the deaf
understand half of it. This is however a misrepresentation. If we compare the 50% to the 60%
understood by hearing people, then we see that deaf and hearing people are not so different,
there are just slight differences. I said 60 and 50, but these were experimental data. The
European project "Digital TV for All" involved many European universities and various
countries, among which Italy, Spain, Denmark, the UK, Germany and Greece. We saw with this
project that the deaf understood some texts better than hearing people. The data we will
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collect from this experimentation will probably tell us something I have known for a long
time. Unfortunately, most people don’t realize it: deaf people are normal people. They are
individuals, with different education degrees, with different jobs, of different ages. According
to whether they're used or not to reading written texts, their comprehension is absolutely
comparable to that of hearing people. If the average is lower, the text has likely been prepared
specifically to be received via the audio channel. In an academic lecture, though, information
is conveyed with different means, not only speech. I give the floor to Giuliano Pirelli, although
it's your job to do so, but he asked me. If you want I can let you do it.
Giuliano Pirelli
I wanted to add something. Carlo has given a thorough answer to your question, but there is
something else your question did not consider. We mentioned everything which needs to be
prepared in the hall and for the subtitled lecture; immediately after, the following day, the
attendees will request – be it a university lecture or a town council session – the notes or the
minutes of the lecture. What Carlo, the respeaker, has generated is surely of good quality, but
it's not 100% complete. So, if you think that this second phase is important, it shall be
foreseen from the start. Imagine a university hall in which some students, for the purpose of
an internship or a dissertation, shall read again the texts in agreement with the professor. Or
someone else, a secretary, a councillor who wants to read the text again after a session of the
town council. This shall always be taken into account, because the generated text really is of
great value, also for the web radios: some radio programs can be broadcast again after a
month, which is already important for the audio content; it's just as important to make the
whole text available online. If you want to do it, someone has to review the texts.
Daniela Noli
There is also a law on copyright. What is the relationship between this system and this law?
What is the actual problem?
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Giuliano Pirelli
Well, listen, I'm happy to recall a conference organized by RAI around 15 years ago. Its title
was "Scripta volant". We always say "scripta manent", but subtitles are actually flying texts,
they're written texts accompanying television programs, but they're also oral words in
written form. Many teachers say that text messages and the Internet provide a kind of writing
which is not a written text. It's an oral text via cell phone. My answer is: I don't know. The
question of copyright enters a new field. But I would like to recall what someone else asked
before about the value of this experiment, about what will happen in six months. This is a
completely new field. We're talking about web radio, which no one talked about years ago. We
talk about the web, which almost no one talked about 10 years ago. Last night I was with the
guys, everyone has an iPad with which they download webpages. I don't do it. It's a fast
evolving world. When the European Commission finances something, it cannot know its exact
purpose, but it understands that something is going to happen in this field within the next few
months. Trials, experimentations and innovations are important and I want to say, then I’ll
finish, that it's also important to spur the young. We always talk about young people who are
unemployed, who are looking for a job. Interpreters who can do respeaking would gladly do it.
Within six months, one year this all... They would gladly do it if they knew that there's a
market behind it. I'm sure this market exists, and so is Carlo. He organized courses, masters. I
think this field needs exploring and further development.
Carlo Eugeni and Daniela Noli at the same time:
May I reply?
Daniela Noli
I had no intention of being negative. Far from it. But as legal representative of a regional
institution, I need to tackle this question. This project has been launched by an association
without legal status, which is therefore subject to private law, while a regional authority is
different, it has a different legal status. I like the project very much. Among other things I'm a
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pedagogist, so I cannot but appreciate this kind of sensitivity towards people whose life is
different from ours. I don't see any handicap in this regard, on either side. It's just different
ways of living and understanding our daily life. But as I'd like to take part in this experimental
project, I also have to consider possible problems of a legal nature. My question was very easy
and only aimed at understanding whether the organizers of the initiative have taken into
account these aspects.
Luca Frongia
Our web radio has all the necessary authorizations: SIAE, SCF, etc. This needs to be said
upfront. What I think is important to say here is: I make a radio program and I'm very happy
to know that, from yesterday's 30% or 40%, now it's accessible to 50% more of users. What
I’m saying is: if I can make a program which the deaf and foreigners can understand as well,
I'm very happy. This is why I'm ready to do all I can so that this technology can be used like a
new cell phone, like a new system, a new Twitter, like anything enabling better
communication with the others. In my opinion the theme of copyright needs to be tackled. In
the field of experimentation we are confronted with new barriers, new limits which we can
only tackle when we are so far, but this is innovation, experimentation, this is the future. I also
think that those who rely on this technique do it in full awareness. A professor, a respeaker, a
politician can decide whether they want to do it or not. We will obviously have all the legal
documents, because we live in a society which needs a lot of documents to comply with all the
existing laws. In my opinion, however, the base of everything is our will. In my opinion if one
of the subjects I mentioned earlier is in favour, the copyright issue will disappear, because
here we're talking about contents. We're not talking about a song or something else which is
not directly made available by its author.
Michele Demontis
A very important thing about copyright. The experimental programs we will broadcast on our
web radio will be produced by us. We will not use contents created by others or subject to
distribution rights belonging to others. We will therefore be totally within the law.
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Luca Frongia
Fifteen years ago the European Union... Actually the Council of Europe, which is an older and
larger institution with more money, launched a very interesting campaign. This campaign was
called "All different, all equal". Our initiatives will unfold within this framework. We're
different, disabled and non-disabled. Non-disabled and deaf people, as Luciana said earlier.
There is also a huge gender-based difference between her and me. What I mean is that we feel
in different ways. This makes us wonderful individuals and we should all have the same
opportunities to be involved. This is what we want. We know that what is different is just
different, we cannot change it, but with the instruments we have we can offer the chance to
make people a little more equal than before. This is what should spur us and should make us
tackle all difficulties and overcome them.
Carlo Eugeni
Excuse me, I'm trying to be multitasking, but it's very difficult, also because, as is well-known,
men are unable to do two things at the same time. I'm trying with all of myself, with all I have
learnt, to overcome this barrier, which is not gender-based, obviously, because I am and want
to remain a man, but from the point of view... My God, this speech is becoming... I just wanted
to simply answer your question, instead I'm talking like a stand-up comedian. So, copyright
does not apply to text creation. I mean... If you're talking about copyright of the person
generating the text, that is the respeaker, then copyright does not apply if the purpose of the
text is... If the purpose is not... Let me start again.
Daniela Noli
If the purpose is not commercial.
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Carlo Eugeni
If the text has no commercial purpose, as is the case of e-learning at university, then copyright
does not apply. It only applies when a subtitled product will be marketed. I think for instance
of subtitled DVDs. The company producing these DVDs has the copyright on each copy which
is sold. If instead I create a subtitle which is paid for by a university, my quotation includes
everything: preparing the subtitle, producing it and, if necessary, the future use of the subtitle.
This is an unsaid practice, because the invoice does not state it anywhere, but from a legal
point of view it's anyway correct. You cannot ask for money for something which does not
generate money and generates culture instead or gives access etc. From the opposite point of
view, the respeaker obviously may not divulge a text he has only subtitled, unless the author
of said text authorizes it. If for instance... Excuse me? If a professor does not want its lecture to
be divulged, the subtitles can be used only as lecture notes. We can say that he has no
copyright on the lecture notes, but he has the copyright on his voice and on his presence in the
university hall. Obviously the university can follow the principle: "Let us divulge university
content to a broad public”. This is part of the advertising for university lectures, which are
free of charge, as we know. Actually they are accessible to everyone, they are public. This is
what I meant. Of course there is a huge difference, but this is what I wanted to say. In a
university context it's obvious... I think it's common sense that the institution, through the
rector or the co-rector... I don’t know exactly who is in charge of the office for the disabled in
your university... I will finish immediately! It's common sense to tell the professors: "You have
to give the authorization to make the subtitles of your lectures available". I'm sorry.
Michele Demontis
Thank you, Carlo. Are there any other questions? Good. If there is no question and if none of
the speakers wants to add anything, I'd say we can finish here. We thank you for being here
today. We thank first of all the National Deaf Association as well as everyone who was here
today. This is just a first meeting. I think we'll meet again soon to see where we stand with
this work-in-progress and to verify the progress of the experimentation. We remain at the
disposal of anyone who should be interested in taking part in this pilot project in various
ways. Thank you all and see you soon. Can someone help us with the radio?
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Luca Frongia
This is why technology created new ones.
- End of the conference 12.15 p.m.
Translation by Cristina Tabbia.