Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories is a partnership of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs, Wisconsin Historical Society and Wisconsin Public Television.

Reel to Real

Segment Guide

Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories Discussion Guide

Part 2 of 3

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REEL to REAL: WISCONSIN VIETNAM WAR STORIES OUTREACH DVD: The Vietnam Veterans You Meet in the DVD: John Dederich, De Pere Kerry Denson, Lake Mills Richard Erck, Greenville Dan Hinkle, Black River Falls Bruce Jensen, West Allis Wayne Jensen, Milwaukee Jim Kurtz, Middleton William Moore, St. Francis Lowell Peterson, Appleton William Rettenmund, Verona Roy Rogers, Menasha Daniel Schaller, La Crosse Gary Wetzel, South Milwaukee Alvin Whitaker, Waterloo Will Williams, De Forest DISCUSSION QUESTIONS: SAMPLE DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

Did you recognize yourself in any of the stories in the film?

Did the experiences of the people in this film remind you of the experiences of people in your local community? Why or why not? If so, in what ways did they resemble life here?

What surprised you most about this film?

What lessons should people take away from this film? Are there ideas in this film about how we might improve the lives of people in our community?

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR INDIVIDUAL SEGMENTS:

NAVAL PRESENCE: 1964 The U.S. Navy was charged with providing combat power ashore in Southeast Asia,

controlling the coastal waters off Vietnam, and providing logistic support. Naval

operations took place in the South China Sea, among myriad islands, along the

coastline of Vietnam, and on thousands of nautical miles of rivers and canals.

The first significant U.S. naval engagement of the war was the famous Tonkin Gulf

incident of 1964. Throughout the war, carrier aircraft of the Seventh Fleet executed

round‐the‐clock bombing of enemy logistics facilities, fuel and supply depots, power

plants, bridges, and railroads in Laos, North Vietnam, and after 1970, Cambodia,

resulting in the loss of 900 aircraft and 881 pilots and other air crew killed or captured.

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(Source: Wars and Conflicts of the United States Navy: Overviews of Naval History,

found at http://www.history.navy.mil/Wars/index.html#anchor13254)

The Perch: Originally commissioned in 1944, The Perch (SS-313), a Balao class

submarine, served in WWII and the Korean War prior to being decommissioned in 1960.

On November 11, 1961, The Perch was recommissioned with a crew of 80 and arrived

in Subic Bay, Philippine Islands in March 1963. Her primary assignment was training

U.S. Marines, Army Special Forces, and Navy underwater demolition teams in

reconnaissance. Perch lead search and rescue operations in Vietnam and participated

in amphibious landings (Source: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships by James

L. Mooney, published by the Navy Department).

The Maddox: USS Maddox (DD-731), an Allen M. Sumner-class destroyer was named

for Captain William A. T. Maddox, USMC, launching 19 March 1944. The Maddox was

assigned to patrol off the coast of South Vietnam with over 335 crew members.

On 2 August, 1964, Maddox, cruising in international waters 28 miles off the coast of

North Vietnam in an area known as the Tonkin Gulf, was engaged by three North

Vietnamese patrol boats. Two days later, in extremely rough water and weather, radar,

sonar, and radio signals signaled another apparent attack by the North Vietnamese

navy. The Maddox and the C. Turner Joy engaged an unseen enemy for two hours,

firing only on probable radar targets. These combined events became known as The

Gulf of Tonkin Incident, eventually resulting in the passage by Congress of the Gulf of

Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist

any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by

"communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for

escalating American involvement in the Vietnam War.

In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it

concluded that USS Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese on August 2, but that

there may not have been any North Vietnamese vessels present during the

engagement of August 4. (Sources: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships by

James L. Mooney, published by the Navy Department Action in Tonkin Gulf; Time

Magazine 14 Aug. 1964. Time Magazine Online. Web. 28 Oct. 2009; Moise, Edwin E.

Tonkin Gulf and the escalation of the Vietnam War. Chapel Hill: University of North

Carolina, 1996)

Special Forces: The Navy SEALs (“sea, air and land”) started out in 1962 as an Elite

Special Force of the US Navy. Navy SEALs operated in Vietnam, Laos and covertly in

Cambodia under the auspices of the Studies and Observation Group. The first SEAL

was killed in Vietnam in 1965- in total, 45 SEALs died by 1972. SEALs were

operationally deployed to Rung Sat Special Zone and tasked with supply and troop

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movement disruption and carrying out river operations on the Mekong Delta (Resource:

Navy SEALs Information & Resources).

William Moore St. Francis USS Perch (Dolphin Wings) Wayne Jensen Milwaukee Navy, Coastal Division 12 Radarman and Gunnersmate November 1963 – October 1966 and November 1967 – October 1969 Daniel Schaller La Crosse Fleet Air Recon 1 Bruce Jensen Milwaukee Navy, River Assault Division 111 Gunnersmate, Medical Aid Boat Crewman November 1965 – November 1969 1. How do you think the experience of Navy veterans differs from those who served in marine or army combat units? 2. Do you remember when the Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred? Did you or your parents realize that this would precipitate the longest war our country has ever fought? 3. What struck you most about the seaman‟s description of the Gulf of Tonkin? Do you feel he completely understood what had happened? 4. The separation of families during wartime has happened since the birth of our nation, but in Vietnam, it was much rarer than it was in World War II, a war that occurred only 20 years earlier. Think about the experience of Bruce and Wayne Jensen – what do you think it was like knowing the other was in danger overseas? Do you think their knowledge of the war made it easier or harder to deal with?

DROPPING BOMBS: 1966 Operation Rolling Thunder was a sustained U.S. 2nd Air Division (later Seventh Air Force), U.S. Navy, and Republic of Vietnam Air Force (VNAF) aerial bombardment campaign conducted against the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) from March 2,1965 until November 1, 1968. It is estimated that the bombing damage

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inflicted on North Vietnam totaled $370 million in physical destruction, with approximately 1,000 casualties per week. (Source: Clodfelter, Mark, The Limits of Airpower: The American Bombing of Vietnam. New York: Free Press). Lowell Peterson M.D. Appleton Air Force, 18th Tactical Fighter Wing, 12th Tactical Fighter Squadron Flight surgeon 1965-1966 Alvin Whitaker Waterloo 355th Tactical Fighter Wing 1. While not actually flying the planes that dropped the bombs, both Lowell Peterson and Al Whitaker are quite emotional about their relationships with the pilots they assisted. Discuss what it must have been like to see your friends leave the air base each day, not knowing if they would come back. How would you handle a situation in which you were completely helpless? 2. The air war over Vietnam was always a hot button issue, with both anti-war activists protesting the bombing as inhumane and pro-war voices advocating for increased bombing to destroy supply routes and bring the enemy to their knees. Which do you think was right? How is an air war different from a ground war? 3. Despite the overwhelming might of our military technology, both the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) were able to wage an effective war using, at times, outdated military equipment. Why do you think the Communists were able to neutralize our great technological advantage? What could war planners have done to counteract their gains?

ELUSIVE ENEMY: 1966 Tunnel Rats: Whenever troops would uncover a tunnel, tunnel rats , usually armed with a pistol and flashlight, were sent in to kill any hiding enemy soldiers and to plant explosives to destroy the tunnels. (Source: Rottman, Gordon (2006). Viet Cong and NVA Tunnels and Field Fortifications of the Vietnam War. Osprey Publishing). Will Williams DeForest Army, 25th Infantry Division and 1st Logistical Command Squad Leader and Military Policeman January 1966 – December 1966 and February 1969 – June 1969 James Kurtz Madison

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Army, 1st Infantry Division Platoon Leader, Battalion Adjutant, Assistant G-1 June 1966 – June 1967 Daniel Hinkle Bruce Army, 4th Infantry Division, Platoon Leader April 1965 – August 1968 1. Dan Hinkle talks about being sent into Vietnam as a replacement platoon leader and being a unit within the 4th Infantry Division. For many, Dan included, going to Vietnam was a very individual experience, as many soldiers did not go over with a specific regiment. How would this affect your adjustment to Vietnam and to fighting alongside complete strangers? What about on the return trip home? Do you think experience has adversely affected some veterans‟ readjustment to society following the war? 2. The tunnels of Cu Chi were famous for flummoxing the U.S. Army throughout the war. Located outside of Saigon, the tunnels are currently a top tourist attraction for both civilians and American veterans that have returned to Vietnam, yet for the men who went inside them, it was clearly not the case. Discuss the „tunnel rat‟ experience and think about what it would be like to go into an enclosed space with a .45 and flashlight and not knowing what is around the corner. 3. How did the stories from Jim Kurtz and the others about having to pay the French for damaged rubber trees make you feel? 4. Jim Kurtz and Dan Hinkle were both officers while Will Williams was an enlisted man. Throughout the war, there was a great divide between officers and enlisted soldiers or draftees. Why do you think this divide existed and how did it affect our ability to carry out the war?

SEND IN THE MARINES: 1965

The first U.S. combat troops arrived in Vietnam in March 1965 as 3500 Marines landed at China Beach to defend the American air base at Da Nang. They joined 23,000 American military advisors already in Vietnam. On August 18, 1965, U.S. Marines began the first major U.S. ground operation in Vietnam in Operation Starlite, a preemptive strike against 1500 Viet Cong near the American airfield at Chu Lai. 45 Marines were killed, with 614 Viet Cong killed. A second significant Marine engagement occurred in January 1968 when 20,000 NVA troops attacked the American air base at Khe Sanh. 5000 U.S. Marines were surrounded during a 77 day siege (Sources: This Day in History)

In total, 13,000 U.S. Marines were killed in action during the 9+ years of the Vietnam War. Another 51,000 were wounded in action (Sources: Casualties: U. S. Navy and

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Marine Corps Personnel Killed and Wounded in Wars, Conflicts, Terrorist Acts, and Other Hostile Incidents, Naval Historical Center). Roy Rogers Menasha 3rd Marine Division John Dederich De Pere 1st Marine Division Richard Erck Greenville Marines, 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion, Radio Operator November 1965 – January 1967 1. One story that stands out in this segment is that of John Dederich, a Marine who lost both of his legs during a combat patrol. In the clip, we see the Western Union telegram that was sent home to his parents. What do you think of the language the Marines used to tell his parents what happened, i.e. “traumatic amputations of both legs?” Do you feel it was insensitive? Would you rather have outright honesty or vagueness? What does it also tell you about the nature of the war in 1965? 2. All the Marines in the clip talk about going out and “engaging the enemy.” How would you feel if you were sent out on patrol to go “find” the enemy and engage them in combat? What purpose did this serve and was it effective? 3. One of the more remarkable things in this segment is Roy Rogers 16mm film footage. If you saw just his film footage, what would you think about the Vietnam War at that time, i.e. what kind of war was it? Does it seem a lot of different than the war presented in other segments? 4. Force Recon member Rick Erck describes being called an “old man,” yet he was only 20. The things he saw and did occurred before he wasone quarter of the way through his life. Think back to when you were 20 years old – what were you doing? How would you have handled being put in Rick‟s position? Could you have handled it?

AIRMOBILE: THE NEW CALVARY Airmobile units allowed the air insertion of troops for vertical envelopment ("a tactical

maneuver in which troops, either air-dropped or air-landed, attack the rear and flanks of

a force, in effect cutting off or encircling the force"), air resupply, and, if necessary, air

extraction. There were 2,197 helicopter pilots and 2,717 non-pilot crewmembers killed in

the Vietnam War from all services including Air America. (Source:

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/defaultmenu.shtml).

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Kerry Denson Lake Mills Army, 1st Cavalry Division Helicopter Pilot April 1967 – April 1968 and June 1970 – Aug 1970 William Rettenmund Verona 162nd Assault Helicopter Gary Wetzel Oak Creek Army, 11th Combat Aviation Battalion Door Gunner October 1966 – January 1968 1. While some helicopters were in use during the Korean War, the Vietnam War was the first conflict where the helicopter saw widespread use for everything from moving troops and evacuating the wounded to delivering mail and hot meals to men in the field. Why do you think the helicopter was such an effective vehicle during this war? Would the war have been fought differently had the military been without the helicopter? 2. Gary Wetzel is one of six Wisconsin Vietnam veterans to have earned the Medal of Honor for valor and gallantry during the war. Was there anything in particular that struck you in his re-telling of the events where he lost his arm, saved the lives of his fellow soldiers and fought hand-to-hand with the enemy? What adjectives would you use to describe Mr. Wetzel? What is it about combat that makes the ordinary man do something extraordinary?

Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories is a partnership of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs, the Wisconsin Historical Society and Wisconsin Public Television.

Major funding for Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories has been provided by Don and Roxanne Weber, Associated Bank, Oneida Nation, Ho-Chunk Nation, Kwik Trip, Wisconsin Public Service Foundation and Ron and Colleen Weyers.

Additional contributors include Lowell Peterson, The Evjue Foundation, The Boldt Company, Credit Union Executives Society, IKI Manufacturing, Tom Schober, David Walsh and Fred Johnson and the Wisconsin History Fund supported in part by the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Thanks also for the in-kind contributions of Schneider National and the Kress Inn in De Pere.

Reel-to-Real community screenings and discussions are a collaboration of Wisconsin Public Television and the Wisconsin Library Association, and are sponsored by the 2009-2010 UW-Extension Program Innovation Fund and the Alliant Energy Foundation. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the National Endowment for the Humanities.

For a Discussion Guide PDF and information about Discussion DVDs visit: www.wisconsinstories.org/vietnam