SriNisargadattaMaharaj

ExperiencetheInfiniteSriNisargadattaMaharaj'sTalkson

RealizingtbeInfiniteEditedbyRobertPowell,Ph.D.

BLUEDovEPRESS

SANDIEGOCALIFORNIA-1996

SRI NISARGADATTA MAHARAJ was born in Bombay in 1897. Hisparents, who gave him the name Maruti. had a small farm at the village ofKandalgaonand itwashere that he spenthis earlyyears. In1924hemarried,later becoming a cigarette trader in Bombay where he and his wife raised afamily.Fromearly childhoodhehad takenakeen interest in spiritualmatters.histalkswithholymensharpeninghisinquisitivemindandkindlingaspiritualfire. At the age of 34 hemet hisGuru and three years later realized himself,taking the name of Nisargadatta. He continued to live the life of an ordinaryIndianworking-man but his teachings,which are set out in hismaster-work IAmThatandarerootedintheancientUpanishadictradition,madeasignificantphilosophicalbreakfromcontemporarythought.DevoteestraveledfromallovertheworldtohearNisargadattasuniquemessageuntilhisdeathin1981.

RobertPowellwasbornin1918,AfterobtaininghisdoctorateinchemistryfromLondonUniversity,hepursuedacareer firstasan industrialchemistandlaterasasciencewriterandeditorinBritainandtheUnitedStates.In1968and1969,hepublishedninechemicalengineeringmonographs inusebyacademicandindustriallibrariesthroughouttheworld.

RobertPowell'spersonalexplorationofspiritualitybeganin the1960'sandhis quest for self-discovery led him to study Zen and a number of spiritualmasters including J. Krishnamurti and Ramana Maharshi. His own spiritualawakening coincided with his discovery of the teachings of Sri NisargadattaMaharaj.He is also the author of a number of books onwhat he describes as"human consciousness transformation." Powell lives a busy life with his wifeGinainLaJolla,California.

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Whateveris,isanexpressionofconsciousnessonly.Ifconsciousnessisnotthere,theexpressionofconsciousnessisnotthereeither.Therefore,nothingis.And this consciousness is an uncalled-for concept; it has appearedspontaneously.

SR1NISARGADATTAMAHARAJ

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTI am grateful to Frank Anderson, of Huntington Beach, California, who

providedmewiththeoriginaltapesofdiscoursesforthisbook.

PREFACESriNisargadattaMaharajhardlyneedsan introductionany longer to lovers

of thehighestwisdom.KnownasamaverickHindusage.Nisargadatta isnowgenerallyacknowledged to rankwith thegreatestmastersofadvaita teachings,suchasSriRamanaMaharshiofTiruvannamalai.SriAtmanandaofTrivandrum.andthemorerecentlyknowndiscipleoftheMaharshi,PoonjajiofLucknow.

In this latest work, the depth and subtlety of the treatment of the subjectcombinedwiththecloselyreasonedapproach(asmarvelouslyexemplifiedinthechapter “The Experience of Nothingness ”) make these dialogues virtuallyunsurpassed in the spiritual literature. On a more mundane level, Maharajaddressestwopointsmanyhavealwaysfoundintriguing.Peoplehavewondered,and some even complained, about his apparently brusquemannerwith certainvisitorsbynotallowingthemtostaywithhimforanyextendedlengthoftime.InthisvolumeMaharajforthefirsttimerevealstherationaleforhisactions.Itoccurredtomethismightwellhaveabearingalsoonthewayonereadsthesediscourses.Optimally, smallportionsof the textshouldbedigestedatanyonetime,inordertolettheirsignificancesinkin.Thus,oneusesMaharajmorelikea catalyst in the flowering of one's own understanding and the consequentdevelopment of one's convictions. In this way, the words acquire anextraordinaryvitalityandthereisacorrespondingresponsivenessinthelistenerorreader.

Theotherpoint is that it is apparent in thediscussions thatMaharaj rarelyagreeswithanyone.evenifthatpersonhasmadeanapparentlyvalidstatementor given a correct answer to his questions. Maharaj acknowledges this andexplains how andwhy he uses this particular approach as a subtle pedagogicdevice. The possibility always exists to come up with a more or less correctanswer, on the intellectual level, yet be benefit of actual experience or deepconviction. In such cases, to go alongwith the speakerwould only encouragehimtobelievehehasachievedgenuinetransformationwheninfactheismerelyrepeating mechanically a verbal formula. It is as Maharaj once said: "Therealized man knows what others merely hear but do not experience.

Intellectually, they may seem convinced, but in action they betray theirbondage."Andonanotheroccasionhesaid:“Self-surrender is thesurrenderofallself-concern.Itcannotbedone,ithappenswhenyourealizeyourtruenature.Verbalself-surrender,evenaccompaniedbyfeeling,isoflittlevalueandbreaksdownunderstress.”

ROBERTPOWELL

EDITOR'SNOTESThe basic truth of what the great advaita masters teach is essentially the

same,whichistobeexpectedsincethereisonlyoneReality.However,differentteachers lay different emphasis on various aspects of this teaching and to thispurpose employ slightly different nomenclatures or use these terms in flexiblewaysasitsuitstheirpurposes.

Thus,I-am-nessandbeingnessintheseconversationsaregenerallyusedbyMaharaj as denoting limited states of understanding which are fundamentallybased on a sense of separate identity, resulting from taking oneself to be thebody. They are wholly conceptual. Often, Maharaj uses both termsinterchangeably. At other times, depending upon the emphasis he wishes toconvey,hedenotesbeingnessas a somewhat superior state,whicharisesupontranscendence of the “I-am-ness” and equates the manifest consciousness.Maharajalsoreferstobeingnessasconsciousnessorknowingnessandaccordingtohimitstillistheproductofthefiveelements(rootedinmateriality),Thus,hestates: 'This knowledge 'I am' or the 'beingness' is a cloakof illusionover theAbsolute.Therefore,whenBrahmanistranscendedonlytheParabrahmanis,inwhichthereisnotevenatraceoftheknowledge'Iam'.Thestateof“beingness”is clearly an incomplete. provisional state of understanding, as is also evincedfromMaharaj's following words: sages and prophets recognized the sense of'being'initially.Thentheymeditatedandabidedinitandfinallytranscendedit,resultingintheirultimaterealization.”

Whereas "I-am-ness," "beingness" or "knowingness" has a somatic basis,which in turn arises from the physical elements. the Absolute lies beyond all"physicality" and can no longer be described. In the Absolute one has noinstrument tomake any statements.What I am in the absolute sense. it is notpossible to convey in anywords. In that ultimate awareness, nobody has anyconsciousnessofbeingpresent.ThepresenceitselfisnotthereintheAbsolute.

Maharaj teaches that upon transcendence of the individual consciousnessinto the universalmanifest consciousness, the latter rests upon and lieswithintheUnmanifestorParabrahman,where the latterdenotes"thatprinciplewhich

wasunaffectedby thedissolutionof theuniverses"and isanon-state.Healsodeclares: "Please apprehend this clearly thatYou, theAbsolute - bereftof anybodyidentity-arecomplete,perfectandtheUnborn”.lnhisteaching,you-astheAbsolute - neverhaveorhad anybirth.All formsare a result of the five-elementalplay.

1 The term “state” implies a "condition," a modification of a more basicreality, which concerns an unalterable and ineffable substrate. Therefore. itwouldbemoreaccuratetoexpressthismodificationasasuperimpositiononthe“non-state"oftheParabrahman,somewhatanalogoustotheseeingofasnakeintherope.

ThisParabrahmanliesbeyondbothdualityandnon-dua1ity,sinceitispriortospaceandtime(wecanonlyproperlytalkofdualityornon-dualitywithinthephysical-mental sphere. i.e, within consciousness.) It is the Absolute or theUltimateSubject,what one is, for there is no longer anyoneor anything - noteventheconsciousness-toexperienceit.

Finally. it must be noted here that other sages as well as classic VedantascripturesarecommonlyusingI-am-nessandBeingness(spelledwithacapitalB)interchangeablywiththeParabrahmanorAbsolute,andtheAbsoluteisthenreferredtoasConsciousness(withacapitalC)andconsistentlydenotedbytheterm“Self”(SriRamanaMaharshi)andasthe"I-Principle"(SriAtmananda)

«Eventhisconsciousnessisnoteverythinganditisnotgoingtolastforalltime. Find out how that consciousness has arisen. the source of theconsciousness...what is this body?The body is only an accumulation of foodandwater. Therefore, you are something separate from either the body or theconsciousness.»

SriNisargadattaMaharaj

« jivatman is the one who identifies with the body-mind as an individualseparate from the world. The atman is only beingness, or the consciousness.which is theworld.TheUltimateprinciplewhichknows thisbeingnesscannotbenamedatall. Itcannotbeapproachedorconditionedbyanywords.That istheUltimatestate.»

SriNisargadattaMaharaj

TOTHEREADERWe realize that many Western readers are not familiar with some of the

Indianwordsthatappearinthisbook.Whileknowledgeofthesewordsorotherspecializedjargonisinnowayessentialfortheunderstandingoftheteachings,readers are encouraged to consult theGlossary in the back of this bookwhensuchtermsarenotdefinedinafootnoteorinthetext.

Theseconversationswithvisitorsofallkinds,whichtookplaceinthefinalyear of his life, were exclusively directed at the goal of awakening or self-realization.NisargadattaMaharaj talkedwith visitors until the very day of hisdeathofcancer.September8th.1981.attheageof84.

1.MAHARAJSETSOUTTHEBASICSOETHETEACHING

MAHARAJ : The nature of the consciousness has to be understood.Thisconsciousnesscanariseonlyinthephysicalbody,andthephysicalbodyistheessenceofthefiveelements.(1)Itisbecauseoftheassociationwiththephysicalbody that there is suffering.Most people who come here will not be able toacceptthistypeofknowledge,becauseitisonastrictlyfundamentallevel.Butsomepersonswhoapply themselvesandcanaccept suchapointofview,willreally understand. They will be totally free from the impact of pain andunhappiness, if they understand that the latter can only result from theconsciousnesswhichhas identified itselfwith thephysicalbodyandsuffersasan individual. In that case, suffering must inevitably result. But, what is theindividual?There is a body createdout of the five elements, and in that bodydwellsthevitalbreath(prana)andtheconsciousness;itisacompositeunity.Allliving forms contain thevital breath and the consciousness.And. although theformsaredifferent,theyallcontainthesameelements.So,Iaskagain:Whereisthe question of an individual? Basically, there is none. And this is my basicteachingwhichhastobegrasped,butonlyveryfewwillunderstand.

1AccordingtotheHinducosmology,the“fiveelements”-earth,water.firs,air and ether - are said to be the fundamental building blocks of the entirephysicaluniverse.

VISITOR:Wouldyoupleaserepeatthis?TherewassomuchdisturbancethatIcouldnotfollowit.

M : Certainly. but not in the same words. Now what is it that we areconcernedwith?Wearedealingwiththephysicalformwhichismadeupof,andfed by, the five elements. In that form are operating the life force (the vitalbreath) and this consciousness - that is, the knowledge “I am”or the sense ofbeing, thesenseofexistence.The latter is the“sentience,”which is thegiftofthe consciousness. This is the total that we can perceive: the body, the vitalbreathand theconsciousness.All formsaremadeof thesamecomponents.So

where is the question of an individual? Throughout all this, the individual assuchhasnevercomeintobeing.Andforthisreasonthereisnoneedtoidentifyoneselfwithanything.Yetonedoes:theconsciousnessidentifiesitselfwiththebody,andinthiswaythe“individual”comesintobeing.Solongasthisisafact,thatindividualisboundtosuffer.AndwhatIam...Iamneitherthebody,whichismerelythefiveelements,northelifeforce(thebreath)northeconsciousnesswhichcomesintothebody.Imustidentifywiththeconsciousnessaslongasthebodyisthere,becauseitformsoneunitywithit.Butinactuality.Iamnoneofthesethreethings.Whilethebodyexists,Iamtheconsciousness,whichmerelywitnesseswhatever isgoingon.When thebodydies, the life force leaves andmingles with the air, and the consciousness mingles with the universalconsciousness. I am essentially nothing (identifiable) in this consciousness,beingonlyitswitness.And,whatIamintheabsolutesense,itisnotpossibletoconveyinanywords.InthatultimateAwareness,nobodyhasanyconsciousnessofbeingpresent.ThepresenceitselfisnotthereintheAbsolute.

Nopersonnotinterestedinthesubjectwouldwanttocomehere.Soonecanonly assume that thosewho do attend are vitally interested in the subject andhavedonetheirhomework...thus,thepeoplewhocomeherearealljnanis.But,howmanyamongstusknowthenatureandthebasisofthisconsciousnessthatIam,whichexistssolongas thebodyis there.Eachofusmustsay“Iam”andrealizeit.Thereisno“you,”andthereisno“me.”asindividualentities.

Whenthereisanimbalanceinthebodysubstance,illnesscomesabout.Butwhenthatmaterialisinperfectbalance,thereisnoillness.Nowhowisthat?

The question was: Does the universal consciousness depend on the fiveelements for its existence? The answer to this question is that the universalconsciousness and the total manifestation appear simultaneously. Themanifestationhappensbecauseconsciousnessisthere.Untilthe“Iam”thoughtwas there, there was no manifestation; both came about simultaneously. Butbecause we identify ourselves with the body in which the individualconsciousnessmanifestsitself-andtheconsciousnessinordertomanifestitselfhastohaveaform-the“individual”isbornandthatindividualsuffers.

Earlier I had explained the question of the universal consciousness. Theuniversalconsciousness issomethinglikeanamegiventoacity.NowthereisBombay, for example. What do you mean by “Bombay”? Can you produceBombay?No!The totalityofaparticular thing isdesignated...So theuniversalconsciousnessismerelyanamegiventothatwhichisformless.

Iusetheword“city,”notparticularlyBombay.Imeananycityorplace.IfIsayBombay,itmeansthatIrefertoalimitedarea.

V:Avery importantpointhere.Tomymind,acityoranationcomprisesonlytheindividualswhomakeitup.

M:Anamemayhavebeengivenby individuals;but thatwhichhasbeencreated, hasman created it? Out of five elements, man is born. But hasmancreated the five elements? The five elements have been created out of thatconsciousness,whichisintheindividualbody.

V:Theuniversalconsciousnessandthisconsciousnesswithinme,aretheythesame?

M : The light which is perceived by your eyes and the light which isgenerallyseen,asreflectedinvariousmanifestations,aretheydifferent?

Torepeat:TheWholeproblemliesinidentificationwiththeindividualbodyandconsequentlywiththeindividual.Therefore,theindividualiseverafraidofdeath-deathoftheindividual.

Arethereanyquestionsonthissubject?

Youarethisconsciousness.Andoutofthisconsciousnessisborntheentireuniverse.Weconsiderourselvesasindividuals;andthatwhichisunlimitedwehavelimitedtoaninsignificantthing.Theinfiniteisnarroweddowntoasinglebody.Thatisourwholeproblem.

Nowthereisalsothisquestion:Ifitisthesameuniversalconsciousnessthatappearsinmillionsofhumanbeings,whydotheyactinsuchcontrarymanners,creating all kinds of chaos? If onewoman has ten children, they are all bornfromthesameparents,butdotheynotactinremarkablycontraryways?Whyisthat? Because, although constituted from the same basic five elements, thecomposition of each individual, resulting from different proportions -permutationsandcombinations-oftheseelements,isquitedifferent.Thus,eachpersonactsinadifferentway.Or.touseadifferentanalogy,themetalmaybethesamebutthepurposesforwhichthatmetalhasbeenconvertedintodifferentinstrumentsarewidelydifferent-eachinstrumentmaybeusedforaparticularpurpose.Sotheingredientsarethefiveelements,buttheeventualobjectcreatedfrom different combinations of those ingredients is bound to act uniquelyaccordingtoitscomposition.

V:Whosepurposeisit,Maharaj?

M:Thepurposeistheadditionofallthesemillionsofcombinations.UntilIknow...thatiswhyIaskedearlierwhendowefirstknowthenatureandbasisofthis composition, which we identify as ourselves... Unless I first thoroughlyknowitsnature,howcanIknowthepurposeandbasisoftheentireuniverse?

INTERPRETER :Maharaj is asking you, have you realized thenatureoftheConsciousness?

Nowhegivesanexample,asishiswont,ofcountry,homelynature.Inthecountrytheymakeapancake.Thereisafire,theyputapanonit,andthenthedough is poured on it. Finally, the pancake comes into being and is removed.Whenthenextoneisputintothepan,whenitisformed,itwillgenerallyappearlikethepreviousone,butthenumberofdentsandholesinthetwowillnotbeexactly the same. You may have dozens of these pancakes, but each one isboundtobedifferent.Thatisthenatureofcreationitself,tohavevariety,Sohesays. understand the nature and basis of that which is created as themanifestation, and that is the consciousness. Unless you understand thisconsciousness, no other way of realizing Paramatman exists. It cannot beattainedotherthanbyunderstanding.

M:Themysteryof thehypnoticpowerof thismaya is thatone identifiesoneselfwiththebody.Andthemechanismofthiskindofidentificationdoesnotdifferinanywayfromidentificationofachunkofstone.orsomethingcreatedoutofstone,asGod,andthewholeheartedworshipingofit.Sofarasthatgoes,it is all right, and this kind of worship will have its normal effects inconsciousness.Butunlessthenatureoftheconsciousnessisunderstood,onewillnotbeabletounderstandone'strueidentity.Then.havingunderstoodthenatureof the consciousness, you will also understand that you are not theconsciousness.Anythingthatyouhaveseenandunderstood,youcannotbe;you,as a subject, can only understand something which is an object, and you areboundtoacceptitassuch.

If you discuss things with me. based on the traditional literature and thetraditional knowledge... there will be so many pundits who are soknowledgeable, theywill eatmealive.Andyet,where thebasicknowledge isconcerned.whichIdealwith,whydothesepeopleremainspeechless?Becauseitissomethingtotallydifferentfromanythingthatcanbeunderstood.Whateverisunderstood.whateverisseen,isnottrue.

Anyquestions?

V:ThereisaHymntoCreation;itiswellknowntopeoplewhohaveread

thetranslations.Attheendofthat,thepoemgoessomethinglikethis(Icanonlyvaguelyreproduceit):He,theUltimateKnower,thejnani...thequestionnowiswhosaid thiswhole thing,whocausedhim?It isabout the jnani'sorigin,howdidthathappen?Andinthelastline,thepoemreads:He,thejnani,heknowsit.Or perhaps, he knows not. In other words. you are left in doubt at the endwhetherhereallyknowstheUltimate.Isthattrue?

M:Wouldyourepeatit,please.

V :Well. it is difficult to do sowithout repeating the actual text. In otherwords, it is anultimatequestionabout so to speak theoriginof the jnani.Hesaysitinthelastline...

M:Buthowdoesitstart,thisHymntoCreation?

V:ItisaverywellknownHymn.Whatabouttheoriginofthejnanihimself?You can imagine the jnani asking himself: How did I come to be here? Theanswerhegivesis:Heknows.Orperhaps.hedoesnotknowiteither.

M:Hecannotbecalledajnani',sincetheveryquestionisnotanswered,theproblemisstillincomplete,unsolved.Themysteryremains.Thesickmanisstillasickman.Whateverhesaysisanechoofillness.Andtheonewhowroteit,isstillill.

V:[AsksaquestioninMarathiwhichisnottranslated.]

M:Consciousnessitselfisthescreen.Thisistherealmofconsciousnessandallcreationsareintheconsciousness.

I : The questionwas:Couldwe conceive of consciousness as a screen onwhich the entire creation is like amoving picture? SoMaharaj said initially,there is no screen, there is nothing.Whatever is, is wide open. Then.Mr. P.explained thatwhat the ladyprobably intended toconvey is thatanything thatcan happen - all thoughts, all action - are only appearances in thatconsciousness.SoMaharajsaid:Undoubtedly.

The session is nearly over. Are there any questions? Maharaj wantsquestions;hethrivesonthem.

V:Adifficultyinourunderstandingisthatconsciousnessitselfistheobjectof theKnower. right?This consciousness can eventuallybeunderstoodby thejnani.Unfortunately,theoppositeofconsciousnessisunconsciousness.Sointhelanguage, so to speak, there is an inbuilt tendency to make this division -consciousness and unconsciousness. Consciousness is being understood; and

thenwhatremains,accordingtothelanguage,isunconsciousness.

I:Thatheexplainedyesterdaymorning...

Whentheconsciousnessisnotthere,thenobviouslyoneisunconscious.Sowhatareyougettingat?

V:Consciousnessisnottrue.Yousaythattotheordinaryperson,andthenthatseemsaninferiorstatetohim.

SECONDVISITOR:Itdoesnotseeminferiortome.

M:Itisoutofunconsciousnessthatconsciousnessisborn;unconsciousnessis the source. And that is our experience also. This knowledge "I am." thisconsciousness,hascomeoutofthepriorstatewhentherewasnoconsciousness.TheConsciousness is a statewhich is nowwith us and because ofwhichwesuffer;andbeforethisconsciousnesscame,astateprevailedwhenwewerenotconsciousandwhichwasahappystate.

Thesessionisover,butifthereareanyquestions...?Thengoahead!

[Therearenofurtherquestions]

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M : [in response to a question about effort to understand] There is noquestionofanyeffortsbeingmadebyanyone.Thatwhichisistobeunderstood,is self-effulgent. It does not need anybody's help to exist, and ismerely to beunderstood.Andwhenitisunderstood,itwillalsobeclearthatIamthedawn,Iamtheafternoon.Iamtheevening,Iamthenight.Iamthegood,Iamthebad.Andwhat is tobeunderstoodis that ifconsciousness isnot there. theworld isnot there. And I am not the consciousness; I am apart from it. Althoughconsciousness is so very important - for if there were no consciousness therewouldbenoWorld,therewouldbenothing-yetIamnotthat.

V:Butevencoming to this insight requireseffort.WhydoesMaharaj saythereisnoefforttobemade?

M:Nowthatyouknowthatyouare,youaresittinghere,youknowthatyouexist,youhavethatsentience.Theknowledgethatyouarealive.thatyouexist,doyouunderstanditthroughanyeffort?

V:No.

M:Yourquestion iswholly correct from thepointofviewof thisworld;

thatis,unlessyouworkthereisnofruit,youcan'teat.Sofromtheworldlypointofview,yourquestion is correct.But Idon'tbelong to thisworld!And in theworld,this“I-am-ness”isjustthere.withoutanyeffortsonanyone'spart.

V:Maharaj,Iamateacherbyprofession.Intheory,Iacceptthisfullyandeven see the logic of it. The problem is that knowing this theoretically is onething,butactuallybeingitandfeelingitisquiteanother.Andthatiswherethetroublelies,andhencetheneedforeffort.

M:Yes, tremendouseffort: beingvery,very still andnotdoinganything!Thatiseffort-theeffortwhichyoumadewhenyouwereinyourmother'swombfor eightmonths and inwhich state neither your parents nor you as such didanything.Noeffortwasmade.Whatevergrew.grewbyitself.

V:Igotmyanswer!

M:Fromthedropofsemenatconceptiontothegrowingintoababy,andhis further development,what is it thatmade possible this growth? That verysameprinciplewhichfromtheabsenceofknowledgehasledtothepresenceofknowledge,this"I-am-ness"-thatiswhatoneisandwhatistobeunderstood.

V:Aspontaneousoccurrencewithouteffort.

M:Thatspontaneoushappening, thatconsciousnesswhichhascomeuponunconsciousness.

V:Buthowcanoneknowthatconceptionhasoccurred?

SECONDVISITOR:Howotherwisewouldyouknowthechildisborn?

V:Unless there is conception,hewillnotgrow.And in thepersonwherethereisnoconception,therewillbenogrowth.Hence,aneffortwouldalsohavetobemadefortheretobeconception;thenonlythegrowthwilltakeplace.

I :Maharaj is telling youexclusivelyabout thegrowthpart.Therearenoefforts.Itisspontaneouslyhappening,thegrowth.

M:Eventhere,evenfortheconception,whateffortcouldtheparentsmake?And even if the parents make that effort, could they have guaranteed thatconceptionistotakeplace?Theconceptionoccursbyitselfofitsownsweetwill-notnecessarilybecauseofanyefforts.Inanycase,theeffortswhichtheparentsmade were not really efforts: they were enjoying themselves. That is not aneffortassuch.

[Toaparticularvisitor]Areyoucomingintheevening?

V:Thesearemysisters.Theyaregoingbackwithmethisafternoon.

M : The knowledge “you are” - if you want to remember this visit -remember this also, the memory that you are is under the shade [that is, theprotecting umbrella] of the guru or God, Worshiping God and guru meansworshiping the knowledge "you are" only. So hold on to that principle, theknowledge"Iam."theknowledgethatyouexist,andworshipitinthenameofyourguruorGod.

2.ATTHEHIGHESTLEVEL

NOTHINGIS;ATTHEWORLDLYLEVELEVERYTHINGIS

VISITOR : Forgive me for going back to what Maharaj said yesterday,becauseIforgot.Iaskedhimaboutthepresenceoftheguru,andhesaidthereissomethingsaying"guru-guru-guru."

MAHARAJ : Oh yes, guru means that “I-am-ness” itself, which alwaysremindsyou“Iam,”“Iam.”“Iam”-thatisguru-guru-guru,likethesoundofamotorcarstarting.Itisacontinuousreminderthatyouare.

Forthistriflingtalk,whyareyouusingthisequipment?[referringtothetaperecorder]

V:Because the trifling talk takesusbackall the time to thatwhich isnottrifling.

M:Justso.

V:CanIaskaquestion?

M:Ofcourse.

V : ThismorningMaharaj said thismystery of the knowerand the knownshouldbefollowedup.Theknownisnotreallyknownbyaknower.Theknownisknown because its perceptions, thoughts, feelings, are movements inconsciousness,and theyareknownbecauseof theirappearance in the lightofconsciousness.Isthatcorrect?

M:Itisjustlikethat.Ajnaniisthemoststupid...(Heisnotconcernedwithknowingintheconventionalsense.)Whenthiswakingstate,thisconsciousness,appears, then only everything appears. Prior to that, where is the question of

knowledge,ignorance,orjnana?

V:Butdeepsleep.isthatreallyastate?

M:Yes,theintegralcombinationofWakingstate,deepsleepandthedreamstatecomprises“Iam.”

V:Butindeepsleep,thereisnotime.

M:Timeisthere,onlythewitnessingoftimeisnotthere.

V:Howcantherebetimeifthereisnowitnessing?

M:Yourwatchdidthewitnessingjobandtoldyouthatyouwereasleepforeighthours.

V:Sowitnessingcomesafterwards?

M:Agreed!

V:Inthedeepsleepitself,thereisnotime.

M:Theonethattellsyoulater,whatishelikebeforetellingyou?

V:Formless.

M:Whenitisformless,whentheformisnotavailable,theconsciousness“Iam”isnotthereeither.

V:Soindeepsleep,thereisno“Iam.”

M:No.But thewitnessing of deep sleep does happen.The principle thatwitnessesthedeepsleepdoesnotsleep.

V:Idon'tunderstandthatsomethingcanbetimelessandyetexist-thedeepsleep.

M:Yougointoaverydeepsamadhi,thenyouwillrealizethat.Ifyouwantto meet a state of nothingness, you yourself must also go into a state ofnothingness.

V:ThatiswhatIcall“omnipresence,”orPresence.

M:“I-am-ness"isPresence.That“I-am-ness"presenceshouldnotbethere.Thenon-“Iam-ness”onlycanmeetthatnothingness.

V: Still there is...Ihavenoword for it.Presence.There isno thought,nofeeling.Butthereis...

M:Nothought.nofeeling.

V:Iusedtogointosamadhiswhichwerejustlikedeepsleep.Inthreehoursorso.Inoticedthatmanythingshadhappened(inmyimmediateenvironment).Butmyguruwasveryunhappywiththat.Hesaid.youmustnotdothat.

M:Samadhi and theexperiencerof samadhi.didyouget acquaintedwithbothaspects-samadhiandtheonewhoenjoyedsamadhi?

V:Now,somanyyearslater,Isaytheyareidentical.

M:O.K.,theexperiencerandtheexperienceareoneandthesame.

V:Butitcannotberemembered.

M:Itisnottobememorized;itcannotbegraspedbymemory.Themanifestdynamic,fluidBrahmancannotbecaughtinanywords.

V:Canyousaythateverything,evenignoranceandpain,isapointertotheUltimate?

M:Whenyouarecompletelydepersonified,youarenomoreanindividual,then whatever is, is an embellishment or a decoration or a puja to theParabrahman. But so long as you are wrapped up egoistically through somewords,nopujacanhappen.

V:KnowledgewithacapitalK.theultimateknowledge...

M:TheAbsolute?

V:Yes,knowingness.Idon'tknowhowtocallit...

M:But that isnoknowingness...In theAbsolute, there isnoknowingness.Knowingnessisonlyinthepast.

V:Herewefacethedifficultyofwords.

M:Youbetternotcallitknowledge.

V:Pureconsciousness.

M:Inthatstate,thereisnoknowingness.

V:Butnounconsciousnesseither.Itisnotpossible.

M:Itisunconscious.

V:Fromthepointofviewofthemind.

M : Yes, because you are...the indication is given with reference toconsciousness.Thatiswhyyoucallit“noconsciousness.”

V:Yes.Butinreality,fromitsownpointofview...

M:YouaretalkingoftheAbsolute.Thereisno“I-am-ness.”

V:Idon'tknowhowtocallit...

M:CallitAbsolute.Themomentyousay"knowledge,"thequalitycomesin.

V:Idon'tmeanthat.

M:Youaretalkingofthenirgunastate?

V:Idon'tknowthisSanskritterm.

M:Gunameans“I-am-ness.”:andnirgunameans“No-I-am-ness.”

V:“Iam”disappearsintheAbsolute.

M:Yes,anon-knowingstate.

V:Anon-knowingstate...thatknows![laughter]

M:Knowingnessappearsonthenon-knowingstate.

V:Yes,therelativebeingnessisknown,isrecordedintheAbsolute.

M:BeingnesscomesonthebackgroundoftheAbsolute.So?

V:Soitisknown...intheAbsolute.Beingnessisknownasanobject.

M:Ifknowingnessisnotknown,whowouldcallit"knowingness"?

V:Thereisnobodytocallitanything.

M:Thatisthereply!

V:So,haveIunderstooditrightthismorning:Maharajadvisesustofindoutwhoisthewitnessindeepsleep?

M:Allthesewordystatementsarejusttopleasesomebody.Actuallythereisnosubstanceinallthis.

V:So.noadvice?

M:Themanifestdynamicnature,don'tstampitwithwords!justbe.Don'tconceptualize.Noweverybody isweigheddownbywords.Suppose a child is

there,andthechildisdead.Whateverthatprinciple,thatdynamicprinciplehasleftthebody.No,youcannotsaywhatthatdynamicprincipleis.Ithasnonamenow.Becauseofthisassociationwiththebody.youhavetriedtocaptureitwithwords.

V:Sowordsaretheonlyproblem.

M:Yes.Thewholeproblemiswith thewords.Since thatprinciplewhichhas quit the body is now freed from the body, you cannot capture it throughwords. The dynamic beingness principle, because of its association with thebody, embracing a certain form and certain words and concepts, is suffering.Withoutthat-withoutform,andwithoutwords-howcanitsuffer?

V:AllthisstopsimmediatelywhenyouseeitasapujatotheUltimate.

M:Thatmeansall thiswordybusiness stops.Youmayunderstand it thatway.Onceyouunderstandthatyouarenotthebodynorthatyouarewrappedupinnameandform,andthatyouarethismanifestBrahmanonly,youarefree.

V:Eventheidea“Iamnotfree”ispartofthepuja.

M:Whatdoyoumeanby“puja”?Pujaisaprocessoranaidtopropitiatesomebody.

V:Well.O.K.Wouldyoucallitdarishma?

M:Callitwhateveryoulike.Itisanexpressionofit.

V:Itisconsciousnessplayingwithitsown.

M:Yes.

[To a newly arrived visitor] If you are going to sit here, you must askquestions.Ifyouarenotgoingtoaskquestions,taketherearmostseat.

V: Ifyoucomehere.youmuststickoutyourneck.Otherwise, it isnouse(beinghere).

M:Ifyouenterthearena.youmustfightwithquestions.

SECONDVISITOR:Ofcourse,ofcourse.

M: [pointing to a thirdvisitor]For years hehasbeen trying to assimilateknowledge,buthehasnotgotan iotaofknowledge.Whatknowledgedidyouget?

V:The ignorantmanhasnotgotanyknowledgeandthesagehasnotgot

knowledge.Thenwhatisthedifference?

M:Theignorantonehastoacquireknowledge,becauseknowledgeisvalidfor the ignorant. For the jnani, there is no sense of knowledge because hedismisses knowledge as unreal. Therefore, he does not entertain knowledge.Thatiswhyhehasnoknowledge.

V:Inrealitynobodycanhaveknowledge,nobodycanhaveanything.

M:Inrealitynobodycanavoidknowledge.Nobodymeans“who”?

V:Thisisthe“proprietor.”

M:"Nobody"meanstheonewhocouldreferto"whom”?

V:Thisistheproprietorwhomyoucannotknow.Eventheproprietorgoesatonce...SoIcouldnotbe theownerofknowledge for tworeasons.Firstyoucannotownanythought...Secondly,theproprietordoesnotlivelongerthanoneortwoseconds.Healsoisathought.

M:This isall rightontheworldlylevel,but, truthfully.nothingis.At thehighestlevel,inreality,nothingis.Attheworldlylevel,everythingis.

V:Doesthismeaneverythingisaformofconsciousness?

M:Whateveris,isanexpressionofconsciousnessonly.Ifconsciousnessisnotthere,theexpressionofconsciousnessisnotthereeither.Therefore,nothingis. And this consciousness is an uncalled-for concept; it has appearedspontaneously.

V : So once one has heard the truth, there really is only one obstacle, tothinkthatcanonereachitwhenoneactuallycan't.

M:Afteronehasgotthetruth,thereisonlyoneobstacle...

V:Itappearsthatyouhavetoreachittoattainit.

M:'Whenyouhaveheardthetruth,itstillneedstobeemulatedinordertobereached.

V:Yourattempttounderstandit,thatistheoneobstacle.“How?”

M:Becausethetruthhasnoform,noname.Sohowcanitbeunderstood?

V:Butthatissomethingonecontinuestotryforalongperiod.

M:Intheprocessoftryingtounderstand,yougetpurifiedandtheprocesssubsides. So long as the food body essence is available, this consciousness

endures.Whentheconsciousnessquitsthebody,thatknowingnessisnolongerthere.Thereremainsonlytheuniversalconsciousnesswithouttheknowingness,thenon-knowingnessstateoranythingelse.

Theninthatstatethereisnoquestionofmanifestorunmanifest.Thatcomesonly with the presence of consciousness. So long as the association with thebody essence is there, this guna, this state of “I-am-ness” or beingness, isavailable.Butoncethisfoodessenceisgone,that“I-am-ness"stateisalsogone.Thisguna,thisconsciousness,dependsentirelyonthefoodbodyessence.Oncethelatterisexhaustedornolongeravailable,thisconsciousnessorthisgunaisalsonotthere.Torepeat,thelifeforce,thetouchof“I-am-ness"orthisguna,isnotthereintheabsenceofthefoodbodyessence,whetheritconcernsanantoranelephant.

All the stories of reincarnation, rebirth, are mere stories meant for theignorantmasses.

V:Thepastisalwaysprojectedfromthismoment?

M:Whateverhashappened.thatis“thepast.”

V:ButWecannevertouchthepast;weareonlynow.Sowecannottouchanythingwhichisnotnow.So,maybe,thereisnosuchthingasthepast.

M:Whathaveyoutosay...?

V:Soifthereisnopast,thereisnobondage.

M:Butwhosaysthatitcannotbetouched,thepast?

V:Isayso.

M:Butwhoistheonewhosaid“I”?Thismeansthatbytheword“I,”thatchetana, thatmanifest,dynamicprinciple caught itself in thatword“I”. If thatdynamic,manifestprincipledoesnotgetcaughtupintheconcept,thenithasnobirthandnodeath.

V:Isitpossible,whenyoulookforwhatyouare,thatyouidentifyyourselfnotwithconsciousness,butthatyoumisapprehendit?Coulditbethatwhenyoulookforyourself,youtakethisconsciousnessMaharajistalkingaboutforthatwhichyouare,thatyougetitmixedup?

SECONDVISITOR:YoumistakeconsciousnessfortheUltimate.

M : Yes. that consciousness is the prerequisite for anything.Without theconsciousness,youcannotevendothatsearch,youcannotlookinward.

Pleaseproceedwiththequestion.

V:Thatisall.Butwhenyoumakethismistake,whenyouidentifyyourselfwithconsciousness,isitstillsomekindoffeelingorexperience?

M:Youareconsciousness.Whereisthequestionofyourmergingwiththeconsciousness ? Your consciousness means “you are.” “You-are-ness” andconsciousnessarenot separate.The“youare” state itself is theconsciousness.Canyoufollowme?Youknowyouare,withoutthewordsyouare.ThatitselfistheConsciousness.

V:Canthisconsciousnessexistwithoutforms?

M:Thisconsciousnesscannotknowitselfintheabsenceofaform,offoodbodyessence.Bodyisaform.Forexample,youaredetectingsomebadsmell.There must be something from which the bad smell emanates. So somethingmustbepresent.Likewise,tohavethistouchof“I-am-ness.”somethingmustbethere.Andwhatisthatsomething?Body,foodessence.Thisbodymustbethere,whichisfoodessence.Storageoffoodessenceisthebody.

[Afteralongpause]Ihadhighexpectationsinyou,thatyouwouldinitiatesomeinterestingtalks.Ifnobodytalks,Iwillclosethesessionandsendpeoplehome.

V : I have done some homework for questions. I had to jot them down.becausewhenIsithereallmyquestionsvanish.WhenIgohome,thequestionscomeback.

Yousaidonemustalwaysremember“Iam.”

M: Is itnecessary thatyoushould remember thatyouare?Spontaneouslyyouknowand remember that youare.That iswhyyouhave comehere, haveyounot?Becauseyouare.Stayputthere.

Currently, you are not yet that knowledgeable to be able to realize thehappinessthatgoeswiththatstate.Youhaveyettoevolve.

V:Idon'tgetit.

M : You are not mature enough yet. And really... when you finallyunderstand,youwill realize thatall this,whateveryouhaveunderstood, isnotthetruth.

V:ThatiswhatIrealizeinmymind.

M : What can the mind understand? Can the mind have any wisdom?

Whateverpassingshowitobserves,thatisthemind.Whateverisread,whateveris heard, that again flows out - that is themind.Whatever earlier impressionsentered,whentheyflowout,theflowingoutisthemind.

V:Inaway,Idon'twanttoaskquestions,becauseifIputacleverquestionandIgetacleveranswerinreturn.Ibecomemoreandmorecleveranditisnouse.

M:Youaskacleverquestionandyougetacleverreply.Isthatwhatyoumean?

V : Yes. Thismakesme evenmore clever, and then I start... It is no use,Therefore,Idon'twanttoaskquestions.

M : So you don't want to become clever? The state you want is non-cleverness.Isitsomethinglikethat?

V : I may become very clever. but it does not help. It does not make mehappy.

M:Itisofnouse.Butwhoobservesit?Whoissayingthis?Whohasmadealltheobservations?

V:Thewitness?

M:Iwouldliketoknowwhoisthatwitnessandwitnessofwhat?

V:Well.IcansayIamthewitness...Iamnotsure.

M:Andwitnesswhat?

V:Intelligence,theworld,everything,allthatismanifested.

M:HowlongareyougoingtobeatthatpostofWitnessing?Howlongareyouinawitnessingposition?

It is the knowingness that is the trouble, the source of all troubles. In theabsenceofknowingness,ofthatconsciousness,whereisthequestionofmisery.painorpleasure?

V:Nowhere.

M:Nowyouknowit,youcangohome;you'vegotit.

V:ButIdon'tfeelit,Idon'texperienceitlikethat.Icanexplaineverythingmostcleverly,butitstilldoesnotwork,evenformyself.

M:Solongasbeingness,“I-am-ness”isthere,(whyworryabout)utilityor

noutility.In theabsenceofconsciousness. there isnoquestionofutilityornoutility.

V:Whyutility?

M:Usefulnessornousefulness.

V:Doesitmeanlosingtheconsciousness?

M:Didyouevercatchholdofconsciousness,andmadeityourown,yourproperty?

M:Thenkeepquiet.

It(consciousness)hascomespontaneously.

Howisitthateveryonehassuddenlygoneintosilence?

V:Isitnotwhathewants?[laughter]

SECONDVISITOR:Canwegetsomeadvicefornotgettingthingsmixedup? Sometimes I take this as "I am," other times I take that as "I am." CanMaharajgivesomeadvicetoensurewedon'tmistakenlyholdsomethingfor“Iam”?

M:Don'tsayIamthis,Iamthat.Justholdontoyourself,youare.Justbe.Justbe"youare."Doyoufollow?

V:Yes,butsometimesI imaginethatIexperience“Iam.”Sometimes,notalways.

M:Everymomentyouareexperiencing“Iam.”Areyounotexperiencingyourselfrightnow?Youare?

V:Asabody,yes.

M:Youknowyouare.Aren'tyou?

V:Yes,asabody,asamind.Iam.

M:Priortobody,andpriortomind,areyounotthere?

V:Idon'tknow.

M:Areyouorareyounot?

Whorecognizesthemind?Yourecognizethemind.Soyouare...

V:Separated.

M:Recognizingthemind,youareapartfromthemind,aren'tyou?

V:Yes.

M:Yourecognizethebody.Soyouareapartfromthebody.Youexistpriortobody,separatefromthebodyandseparatefromthemind.doyounot?Doyouunderstand?

V:Iunderstand.

V : Is that the same aswhen youmeditate and you keep repeating it [themantra]inyourhead?

M: Supposeyoumeditate,meditate on the atmanor something, be there!Recede !Whatever youmeditate on, you are not that!Whatever you observe,you are not that. So in thisway, reject everythingwhatever you observe, andfinallysettledownwherenomoreobservationis.

V:Icouldmeditateonlyverylittlethroughfeararising...

M : You are not the fear! You observed the fear, did you not? Youacknowledge itbecauseyouaccept it.Recede fromthat.Youarenot that.Getback!

V:ButthemoreIgetback,themorefearcomes.

M : But still you have to get back. You are the rearmost backgroundprinciple.

V:Itishardtobeconvincedofthatwhenyouaremeditatingandthefearcomes;itishardtoremember.

M:Letthefearcome!Itdoesnotmatterifyouareoverwhelmedbyfearandyouaredead-whatever that is.Caught in the fear, let itbedead.Butyouarestillinthebackground.letit[thefear]appeartoyou.

V:ThenwhenitfeelstomethatIamdying.isthatnoproblem?

M:Thenletyourselfdie.Thatwhichiscaughtbythefearwilldie,butyouwon'tdie.Youwillbereallyimmortal.

V:Iknow,Ihaveexperienceditmanytimes.

I:Yousurvived,didn'tyou?Sothen?

V:Thetroubleisendless;thefearandthetroubleareendless.

M:Everythingwillgobutyouwillnotgo.youwillnotdie.

V:Iwilltryagain.

M:Whatareyougoingtodonow?

V:Meditate.

M:Whenyousayyouaregoingintomeditation,onwhatdoyoumeditate?

V:Iwillsitandjustwatchwhatcomesup,andthenIkeeptellingmyself:“That'ssomething,that'ssomething...”

M:Thatisall,nothingelse.

V:AndIwillcomehereeveryday,ofcourse.

M:Forfour.fivedays!

V:Whatdoyoumean.fourorfivedays?

M:Youcancomeherefourorfivedays.

V:Notlonger?

M:There isnoaccommodation fornewcomers.Byallmeans, inorder tothoroughlyunderstandyoucancome.Butthenyoushouldgo.

V:Understandingitselfisnotenoughforme.

M:Thenwhatelseyouwant?

V:Becomemorerealized...[giggling]

M : Realized? Whose realization? Somebody else's or yours? Your self-realization,woulditbelikethis...[makesgesture]

V:Whatdoyoumeanby“likethis”?Ihavenotunderstoodthequestion.

M : Listen tomy talks thoroughly for four or five days, and then go andimbibethem.

V : I am fully aware of the question I am going to put, but it cannot begraspedbythemindorthebuddhi[intellect].

Somebodyisrealizing... theunmanifest...butthereisnothingtorealize... itisthereforever.Timeandspacearenotbindinguponit.Correct?

M:Haveyourealizedthat?Isityourexperience?

V:No.

M:Thendon'taskmeaboutsomebodyelse.This"you-are-ness"doesnotoccurtoyou.Youare.Isittime-boundorisitbeyondtime?Younowknowthatyouwerenot.This“I-am-ness”wasnot:ithascomeafterwards.“I-am-ness”hascomeatacertaintime.Youknowyouare.Priortothat,this“you-are-ness"wasnot.Sohowcanyousaythis“you-are-ness”isbeyondtime?Itistime-bound.Ithasappeared:therefore,itmustdisappear.

V:[Longandunintelligiblestatementaboutlivingthe"unmanifeststate."]

M:All this talk ismerelyverbal acrobaties. Iwant toknow:What is this“youare”medicine?Whyareyou?Whatareyou?Duetowhatareyou?Intheabsence of that medicine “you are,” what are you? Before understanding this"youare"medicineanddismissingit,youaretalkingaboutastatewithout"youare"medicine.Understandwhatitis!

Mystateis:Iam,withoutparents.IamtheUnborn.Similarly,Iunderstandyouassuchonly.YouarealsotheUnborn,withoutparents.Ihavebeentellingyouagainandagain: thatyouexist isdue to that“youare”medicine. Ithasacertainperiodoftime.AgainandagainIhavebeentellingyouthat,andstillyouareputtingthesamebasicquestion.

Someoneaskedmeaqueerquestion: Iamresponsiblefor thebirthof fiftychildren.Duetowhataretheyborn?Thatwashisquestion.Supposeyourfatheraskedsuchasillyquestionofsomebodyelse?

Allthistalkingaboutthemanifestandunmanifestismeretalkforthesakeofentertainment.Firstfindout:Whatisthismedicine.“youare”?Duetowhat?When you recognize and transcend that, you are aMahatma, and peoplewillcomeandtalktoyou.Haveyouunderstoodthisprinciple“Iam”?

When spiritually experiencedpeople comehere, they enter into a dialoguejust for entertainment. In the true state nothing is. All this spiritual talk isspiritual jargon. You can talk in the world to the ignorant masses; you canconveyanynumberofconceptstothem.Letmegiveyouanexample:Incertainpartsofourcountry,whenapersonisdead,hisornamentsaregiventoabarber,because from the barber theywill go to the dead person. That is the concept.Andsuchconceptsareall for the ignorantpeople.Butyoucan'tverywell tellsuchstorieshere,whendiscussingprofoundspiritualmatters.Ultimately,whatare these spiritual talks?Theyaremeant for so longas ignoranceprevails.Toremove the ignorance, so-called knowledge is necessary. The knowledge

removestheignoranceandthenitselfalsogoes:bothknowledgeandignorancearethrownoverboard.WhatremainsistheAbsolute.

Takeforexamplethequestionsofrebirthandreincarnation.Inthismanifestplayofthefiveelements,thereisnoentityassuch,noindividualorpersonality.Outofthefive-elementalplay,whenthequintessenceofthatplayintheformofthe food essence appeared in a certain form, the moment is there, that is thenormalignorantpersonality.

Solongasthatfoodessencebodyisavailablewiththatvitalbreath,thelifeforceisthere.Thatisthebirth.Whenthebodyisnotavailable,wecallitdeath.Thenagainarebirth!Rebirthofwhat?Ofthefive-elementalplay!Thereisnobirthofacertainpersonality,ofthisorthatfellow.Thequestiondoesnotevenarise.

V:Whenthebodydies.itmeansthereisnopainafterdeathofthebody.

M:Whatdoyoumeanbydeathofthebody?Doesthebodydie?Canthisdie[againreferringtohiscigarettelighter]?

V:Butthatisnotalivingthing!

M:Ifyoumakeaflame,itisfulloflifeandfire.Whenthevitalbreathquitsthe body, this quality of "I-am-ness" also disappears. That is where the airbecomes manifest, it merges with the universal air. This “I-am-ness.” theconsciousness,alsomergeswiththeuniversalconsciousness.Inthatstate,thereisnoknowingnessandthebodybecomesonewiththefiveelements.Whereisthe death?When the flame is extinguished, would you call it death? In otherwords,whenthisiscompletelyconsumed,isitnotdeath?Youmaycallitdeathalso.

3.ATRUESAGEISHEWHOHAS

TRANSCENDEDTHEPERSONALITYVISITOR : There aremany peoplewho purport to speak about truth. but

onlyafewcanbetrulyconvincing.Whyisthat?

MAHARAJ:Whydoyouaskme?HowcanItellyou?Somebodydidnotgetachild.andyouareaskingme:"WhydidInotgetachild?"Suchquestionshavenoplaceorrelevancehere.Thisphilosophyhasalreadybeenexplainedtoyou.Whydoyouasksuchquestions?Askonlyaboutyourownself.Totalkonthismatterwillbeperfectlyallright,butIhavenoenergytotalkaboutrandommatters.TalkonlyabouttheselfandIwillcomestraighttothepointandexplainmatterstoyou.Butnoothertopics.

Didyougetknowledgefrommeorsomebodyelse?

V:Ithinkmostlyfrommyownself.

M:Ifthatisthecaseandyouaregettingknowledgethroughyourownself,youshouldnothavebeencominghereintheplace.

V:Ididnotmeantosayallknowledgeortheultimateknowledge.

INTERPRETER :Maharajwants to knowwhatever youare gettinghere.Whatothermastershaveexpoundedknowledgetoyou?

SECONDVISITOR :Hewants to knowwhat your sourcesare,what youhaveread,orfromwhomyouhaveheardanythingelse.

V:Istartedoffwithdrugs,thenIlistenedtoWolterKeer(1),andendeduplisteningtoMaharaj.

M:Sinceyousaidthatyourknowledgehassproutedinyourownself,thendon'tcomebacktomorrow.

V:Yes.butthatwasonlyknowledgeofchanges,notknowledgeaboutthe“Iam”orthechangeless.

M:Ifyoureallydidgettheknowledgethroughyou,whyshouldIbreakmyheadoveryou?

I:Don'taskanyirrelevantquestions,forMaharajtireseasily.Justbecauseheisavailabletousdoesnotmeanweshouldflinganyquestionathim.

M:Ihavetosufferforallmytalks,physically.

V :Most of us come fromEurope,wherewe don't have this guru-discipletradition,andsowedon'tknowhowtobehave.

(1) A well-known Dutch author and lecturer on advaita Vedanta and thetranslator of I Am That into Dutch. He was a frequent questioner during thedialoguesrecordedinthispresentvolume.

M:Here.traditionallytheguruisthehighestGod-theGodofthegods.

***

M : Onewho has understood this, that the consciousnesswhich has beenrestrictedtothebodyisinrealitythelimitless,universalconsciousness,ifhehasacceptedthiswithconviction,whatmoredoesheneed?

WhateverIsayisfromthepointofviewthatIamwithoutbody-mind,andifyouwant to acceptwhatever I say from the point of view that you are body-mind,andexpecttogetsomethingfromitasasimilarobject,howcanitbeofuse?

Irepeat:WhateverIsayisfromtheconvictionthatIamwithout thebody,that I am “no-body.” Therefore. if someone wants to understand that, butremainshimselfidentifiedwiththebody.howcanheeverhopetograspwhatIamtryingtoconvey?

Anyquestions?Putthem,butunderstandthatwearespeakingandaskingonthebasisthatwedonothaveabody.Thereisabodyandthebodyissuffering.ButIknowthatIamnotthebody;Iamtheuniversalconsciousness.

Iwillnot talkaboutwhat isbeinggenerally talkedaboutelsewhereon themistakennotionthattheyarediscussing“spiritualknowledge.”Iwillonlyspeakaboutone'sownself. Iwillnot foolpeoplebecause Iwant themtocomehereandtheycometomeasguru.

Whatistobeunderstoodisthat“I.”theself,comprisesallthings;thisunityistobeunderstoodthoroughly.Cantherebeanythingelsebutone?

Therehavebeenanynumberofavatars;theyhavegonebuttheirbodieshavemergedintothefiveelements.Hasanythingchanged?Theselfcontinuestobewhatitwasformillionsofyears.Understandthisasthepuremind,andanythingelseistomfoolery.

Consciousnesswithinthebodygets itselfentangledinthevariousconceptswhichithasbeengivenandwhichithasacquiredandnowconsidersaspartofitself.

InwhatIamsayingnowIgiveapictureofwhatyouthinkyourselvestobe.Thejnaniknowsthatthisistotallyuntrue,andheknowsthetruth.

V:Thoughtcanneverunderstandthis.Ittakesawhilebeforethoughtsarecompletelyexhaustedandstoptryingtounderstand.Theunderstandingsinksinthemomenttheseekerdisappears.

M:Onlywhenoneisconvincedaboutthis,totally;thereisnothingfurtherthatanyonecantellyouandnothingfurthertobeunderstood.

Where is even the question of conviction?The body is going to disappearandminglewith the fiveelements, thebreathwillminglewith theair,and theconsciousnesswiththeuniversalconsciousness:itisassimpleasthat.

Be without the body first, and then whatever words emerge will beknowledgeitself.Theywillnotbecomingfromaparticularapparatus;thewordswill be knowledge itself.Thebody is of the nature of food. and if there is anillnessitisanillnessonthebodybecausetherehasbeenanimbalanceinwhatconstitutesthebody.HowamIconcerned?

This life force, the breath, and consciousness, they are like the sun andsunlight; there is so much unity in that, they are really one. So when onedisappears,theotheralsogoes.Tostartwith,ifyoucannotconsideryourselfasconsciousness,atleastconsideryourselfthelifeforce,becausethetwoareonebut in any case not the body.The life force and the consciousness are alwaysfree,butbecausetheyhaveassociatedthemselveswiththebodythebondagehascomeabout.

Onceyoudecidethatyouarenot thebodyandthisconvictiongrows,yourbodywillbeallthehealthierforit.

V:Isthatthecarrottomakethedonkeyrun?

M:Thatyouwillknowbestyourself.

This consciousness that I am, I am the original. I am the landlord not thetenant.Takeanyconceptthatyoulike,butdon'tlooktomeforgivingyouanyfurther concepts. You may adopt any concept that will make you happy, butrememberitisstillonlyaconcept.

Supposeyouare sittingquietly.Suddenlyone thoughtappears, andwearevery, very unhappy. Then some other thought comes and the original thoughtand the unhappiness both disappear. So long as onedepends on themind, themindwillalwaysmakeusunhappy.

What is suffering really? Suffering is only something which has beenengenderedbyathoughtoraword-themind.Ifthatdoesnotarise.whereisthequestionofunhappiness?

Whatever knowledge I give is always free and open, but the one whoreceivesit,ifhedoesnotkeephimselfopentoreceptivity.whatcanIdo?

Onthispoint,arethereanyquestions?

Yourspeech- thatbreathofwords, thatbreathof thought, thatbreathof itwith the body or is it without the body? The speech iswithout the body, themind is without the body, the life force is without the body, and whateverhappensisthroughtheeffectofthelifeforce.Thelifeforcesignifiesmovement,consciousnessismovement.

OnlywhenI interpretwhat is in themind,doIbecomehappyorunhappy.So long as themind does notwork and there is no interpretation, there is noquestion of being happy or unhappy.Whatever you consider as happiness orunhappiness, sin or merit, heaven or hell, all those depend entirely on themeaningof thewords;and that is theword, that is the thought,and that is themind.

I repeat:Onewhohasunderstood this. Iwillnothavehimhere,but thosewho think theyhaveunderstoodandare still in theprocessofdigesting it andcomeherewithgreatzealandsincerity, tothemIwill tell theminbriefwordswhatthepositionisandthensendthemouttoo.

Unless there is consciousness, how can there be concepts of ether andatmosphere, the sky and space?The consciousness is always the prime factor.Andthelifeforceandthisconsciousnesswithinthebodyareboundtodisappear.

Themannerinwhichthesubjectisbeingdiscussedhere,isitatallsimilarto

thatinwhichyourguruwasexpoundingthesubject?

V :Of course. that depends verymuch onwhowas there. Sometimes, theapproachwasmorelikethis,othertimesmorelikethat.

M:WhydoItalkinsuchafashion?Thiscouldbemisunderstood.IspeakthewayIlikebecauseIknowthatIamnobodyandnothing.Therefore,Icomeandfeelobligedtospeak.

IamandIamnot,andIamneither!Neitherthepresencenortheabsence,thatiswhyIsaywhatevercomesup.Anyonewhoisconsciousofhispresence,willnottalkinsuchopenfashion.

IapperceivedwhatisandIalsoapperceivedwhatisnot:andwhenbothwhatisandwhatisnothavedisappearedthenwhatremainsis“I.”Iamcertainlynotpresenceandnoteventhepresenceoftheabsence.

Allknowledgeanyone,howevergreat,canhaveisthatknowledgewhichonehasatthatsplitsecondwhenheisnotasleepandnotevenawake.Hecannotsaywhat sleep was, for in sleep he is not consciously present. All he can say issomethingwhenheisawake,whentheconsciousnessisthere.

Take the case of a jnani; he does have jnana. But is he able to say fromwherehisknowledgehasarisen?Knowledgehasarisenfromapointwheretherewasnoknowledge.Howdiditarise?Whatisitsnature?

Thosewhohavecomehereandhavehadknowledge,howwilltheybeabletoconveyittoothers?

What really happens in theworld is: somebody gathers a lot ofmaterial -somebody's judgment and somebodyelse's judgment... a numberof judgmentsare collected - and the whole combination he considers the capital of hisknowledge.And it isonly thatwhichhecandistribute.Theymerelyexchangeviews: Shankara said this, and Buddha said that, and somebody else sayssomethingelse; in this fashion, theyexchangeviewsandcall it jnana.But theonewho passes on these opinions of others,when they gave these judgmentswashethere?

Wasitthestateofaffairswhenoneunderstoodthepresenceoftheother,andbothunderstoodeachother'spresence?Ifthatwasthecase,thenit isdifferent.Butmerelyparrotingtheopinionsofothers, that isnotknowledge.Thingsthathappened in the past, as well as judgments given in the past, are beingexchangedamongagroupofpeoplewhothencallthatknowledge.

Thatprimaryconcept,whichis“Ilove,”notonlythatIexistbutIlove,thatisthebasicconceptwhichbringsabouttheassumptionofallotherconceptsbypeople.

Foryearsandyears Imaynotknowthat Iwasgoing tobeborn.Even thedayprior to theConception, IdidnotknowIwasgoing tobeconceived.Andthen, after nine months, the body is born and after a few months, when theconsciousnessisactivelyworking.IrealizethatIamborn.

[To a particular visitor] I consider you a jnani and Iwant an answer fromyou:Whatwasbornandhowwasitborn?Thatis,asfarasyouareconcerned.

V:Onlytheidea“Iam.”

M:Whotoldyouaboutthis?

V:Myparents.TheytoldmeIhaveabody,acharacter,andsoon.

M:Thatisall.Whateverknowledgeyouhaveishearsay.Thatismypoint.

Howcansomebodywhodoesnothaveknowledgeofhistrueselfbeaguru?Onlyhecanbeaguruwhohasknowledgeofhistruenature.Ifoneknewthathewas going to be born, he would refuse. He would not have accepted thepropositionthatheshouldgointhefood:Thankyou,I'llpass,Idon'twantit.

***

M:Inthatstatewhichprevailsafterthedroppingofthebody,isthereanymemory?Conventionallyortraditionally,peoplesaythereisstillmemoryevenafterthebodygoes.Idonotbelievethat,becausethereisnoexperienceofit.Solongasthebodyisthere,themindisthere:andthemindcreatesanindividuallymade memory pattern: therefore the individuality is there.When you are themanifeststate,withtheconsciousness,thereisnoplayofmindandthereforenoindividuality.Youarethemanifestonly.Soifatallthoughtsoccur,theywillnotberelatedtotheindividualisticideathatmanifestsaboutnatureonly.

Whataboutthesages.whoaredeadandgone?Whateverstatetheyhadpriortoassumingabody,theyhaverevertedtothatoriginalstate.Thisknowingness,consciousness. “I-am-ness” comes only with the body that is given. When ajnanidoesnothaveabody.hedoesnotneedanything:heisConsciousness.

I:Inyourcountryalsotheremightbesages.SoIsaidtoMaharaj:Thewayweacceptsagesherewithgreatreverenceandawe isprobablynotcustomarythere. There may be others - I don't really know. They have probably heard

about sages like Ramana Maharshi because through Maharshi they came toknowaboutthepossibilityofself-realization.

M:Asageisonewhohastranscendedindividuality,personality,andabidesinthemanifestconsciousness.Sotheyardstickishisabidanceinconsciousness.Thatmanifestconsciousnessexpressesitselfthroughaparticularbodythatisthesage.Butthatbodyhasnoindividuality.Suchentitiesonlyaretruesages,beingthebackgroundofmanifestconsciousness.

V : Before coming to India, I had tried everywhere to get answers to myquestions,butnobodywouldgivethem.Itriedeveryone,Catholics,Protestants,butnoonecouldanswermyfundamentalquestions.

M:Whydidtheynotanswer?

V:Theydidnotknow.Forexample,everybodywastalkingaboutthesoul.SoIsaid:Whatisthissoul?Nobodyknew.Allthesepeoplewereusingtheword,withoutexplainingwhatitmeans.

[Theinterpreterusedthewordatmafor“soul”inhistranslationforMaharaj]

Soulisnotatma.Atmaisimpersonal,soulisakindofspiritualpersonality.Thesoulisamixtureofatmaandjiva.

M:Doyouunderstandwhatistheatma?

V:Thatwhichremainswhenthoughtvanishes.

M:Andwhenthethoughtisthere,whatisit?

V:Whenwearestill.

M:Theatmaconditioned,consciousnessconditionedbythought.

V : The atma is that which never changes, which all thoughts, fears andsenseperceptionshaveincommon.

I:Yousaid,whenthoughtsarenotthere.Butwhenthethoughtsarethere?

V : Atma is also there. It is that which all thoughts and feelings have incommon. It is somethingwhich is present in every thought, every feeling, andeverysenseperception,whichdoesnotchange.

M:Whateveryouare,thatconsciousness,theknowingness,thatitselfistheatma.Whenyouunderstandthatconsciousnesswiththeidentityofthebody,yousuffer. A guru feels exhilarated when he sees that the disciple has becomemature in spirituality, is growing from the inside. We must talk when it is

indicative of that [maturing] only. I expect questions fromyou at your properlevel,don'tsendquestionsatlowerlevels.

V:Atmylevel,Iamonlyinterestedinsilence.

M:Yourtalkisofsuchahighcalibreoratsuchahighlevelthatit isnotintelligibletothecommonmanofanyreligion.

AChristianworshipsJesusChrist,aMuslimbelievesintheprophetoragod,Hindusworshipsomanygods,butyoudonotdoanyofthis.Youdonotdiscussanyoftheritualsofworshiping,ordoingthisandthat.Youdon'tbelieveinallthis,soyourtalkingisreallyuseless.

Whateveryouare,that"youare,"theconsciousness.theatmanortheselfinyou-thatitselfisnothingotherthanGod.Allthenamesandtitlesofothergodsare meant for you only. You are the knowledge “I am.” So if you want toworship,worship thatknowledge“Iam.”Bedevoted to that"I-am-ness"only.Whenyoudothat,allotherritualsbecomeredundant,useless.Finally.whenyourealizethateverythingisuseless,everythingisBrahman,itmeansyouareattheParabrahman level, the absolute level. When at that level, you will envisioneverything as useless, including the Brahman because the Brahman is alsoreducedtoillusion.Therefore,allthesetalks,includingmyown,willbereducedtoillusionwhenyoureachthehighest.

V:Thenallthisworshipingwillbeputtorest?

M:Ifahumanbeinghastheinclinationtowardsdevotion,itgivesrisetoacertainmood-feelingsofadorationandworship.However.thegodlystate,theconsciousness or beingness, transcends even this emotional state. How totranscend such an emotional state? For this purpose, certain practices arerecommended.

Emotionsshouldbesublimated;youcannotexpelorsuppressthem,fortheemotional sideofus ispart andparcelofhumannature,certainlyat the lowerstages.

V:[asksaboutabookbyRamdas]

I:His[thevisitor's]guruhastoldhimthatbeforereadingthebook,whichwilltakesayfromtwoweekstoamonth,heshouldworshipit,youmustgiveaprasadforthatbook.Doyouknowthemeaningofprasad?Somethingtoeat.

M:Isthatbookgoingtoeat?Whenyouworshipit,doyouthinkthatbookisgettingpleased?Itisonlytosatisfyorsublimateyourownemotion!

Goodorbad,itisallanexpressionofyouremotions.

V:Iwanttoknowmyatman.HowshouldIproceed?

M:“Youare,”thatitselfistheatman.Atmanisnottoknowanything;thatveryknowledgeistheatman.WorshipatmanastheGod;thereisnothingelse.Youworshipthatprincipleonly;nothingelseneedstobedone.

Thisveryknowledge“youare”willleadtothehighest,totheUltimate.This"youare"istheresolongasthevitalbreathispresent.Andwhenyouworshipthat “you are” as themanifestBrahmanonly, you reach immortality. Supposeyou pass on - in common parlance, death occurs to you - then that “you are”knowledgewillbethemanifestknowledgeonlyanditwillnotdie.

V:[asksaquestioninMarathi.untranslated]

M : Who are you? You know you are sitting here, you know you are,withoutwords.justbethat"youare"only.

Idon't like touse flowery, redundant language toputall this intowords. Iwill come straight to the point. How many sages are going to talk from thestandpointoftheselfonly?

There is the only atman.He is the space-atman, the fire-atman, thewater-atman - theyareall the same for the fiveelements.Theonewhohas the firmconvictionthatexceptforthe"I-am-ness”thereisnootherself,hestabilizesintheParabrahman.

***

M:Theonewhoabidesinthatprinciplebywhichheknows“Iam.”heisthe manifest. He abides in that manifest Brahman all the twenty-four hours.Whetherthebodyremainsornot.thatmanifestself-principlealwaysprevails.

ln that formcomes theknowledge "I am." theknowledge "I am."with theconsciousness.withtheself,thehumanparticleissignificant.Whoaretheywhohave propounded the worship of deities and finally the Self? Only thosepersonalities, those sages,who understood and transcended the very source ofthismanifestworld, thisbeingness, this touchof"I-am-ness."advocated to themassestheworshipofthegods,ultimatelyleadingtothebeingness.

Youmustcontinuallyremember,“chewthecud,”thattheknowledge“Iam”signifiesknowingallthegods,alltheVedas:itistheBrahmanonly.Youmustcontinually think about it. And should, in the course of such reminiscing, the

bodydropoff,thenthatconsciousnesswilldefinitelybethehighest.

4.IFYOUWANTTHEHAPPINESSOFSELF,GETRIDOETHEBODY-MIND

SENSEVISITOR:Wespendourlivesalwayssearchingafterhappiness.

MAHARAJ:Couldyoudefinewhatishappiness?Youwon'tbeableto.

Doyouwantthehappinessofhavingawife,thehappinessofeatingfood?

V:Iwantthehappinessofself.

M:Ifyouwantthehappinessofself,getridofthebody-mindsense.Thereare plenty of things to talk about, and I can. But don't talk about anythingirrelevant.Thinkaboutthatselforthetouchof“I-am-ness”only.Makethatthevery core of your being, and you will understand that itself is the manifestBrahman.

INTERPRETER:Ifyouhavereadthebook[presumablyreferringtoIAmThat]andwishtomakeanycomments,youmaydosonow.

M:Iwouldliketoknowwhatistheknowledgeyouhaveofyourownself,thatyouare.Youarehererightnow.Whatisitthatyouare?Toknowthatyouareisthatknowledge“youare”withoutwords.

V:SometimesthereisamoodofhappinesswhichIcannotexplain.Atthatmoment, nothing can be explained. Now that I am sitting here, I can say: Ithappenslikethis,butthatagainisabodilyexperience.

M: I call it...[unintelligibleMarathi orSanskrit expression], thepriormost“I-principle.”prior toanything.Subsequent to that, thefiveelementscomeoutofthat...conjuringupthespaceandtheremainingfourelements.Sothere,inthatpriormostprinciple,wehavetostabilize.

The question now is: Is one stabilizing downward or upward? Commonparlance has it that I am getting elevated, my position is getting higher andhigher.Butitisnotso.Wehavetosubside,settledownintoouroriginalstate,inour priormost state. So I prefer to call it the lower state: to subside into one'sfoundation,sinkintothesource.

From your standpoint, what is knowledge? Knowledge is that which iscollectedbythewordsortheirmeaning.,whichmeansthemind.Butthatisnottheself-knowledge.Self-knowledgecannotbecapturedbywordsorthemind.

You are sitting here: “you are.” Prior to words. Now the hearsay goes “Iam.”"Iam"means the flowofmindhas started.NowWhateveryousaywiththat “I-am-ness” through the mind about “you,” you have represented asyourself.Butthatisnotso.

Thetraditionalknowledgecompriseswhateveriscollectedthroughthismindor through thewords, externally. But that is not the self-knowledge,which ispriortothatalso.

How could there be any bondage or shackles to the atman? It ls only themeaningofthewordswhichoneacceptsforoneselfthatbecomestheshackles.We want only that "self-knowledge" which is acceptable or palatable to themind.nottrueknowledge.Butthatwhichisacceptedbythemindisonlyayoke.

The atman principle remains untouched by themeaning of thewords thatflowfromit.Eventhefouraspectsofthelanguage-para,pashyanti,madhyamaandvaikhari-donottouchit.Wordstryingtodescribethatoriginal,primordialstateinvariablyfail.ThatiswhythemindsinksintoquietudeandwhytheVedassettleintoquietude.Andwhentherearenowordstouse,itmeanstherearenoVedas.

Even in the worldly, everyday life you must develop the conviction thatwhateverlanguagesproutsoutofyouisthelanguageoftheVedasonly.

V:Thismeansthatyoumusthavethatpurityinyou.

M:Wemustbepurified to that extent. Inorder for theVeda language tocomeoutofus,itisnotaquestionofbeingpurifiedornotpurified.Onehastounderstandtheprinciple.

WhateverIsay,youmustapperceivedirectly,withoutthefilterofthewords.Because. if we accept the words, what happens? Based on those words, wecreateaconcept;andthenbasedonthatconcept,weacceptthatforwhatweare.Wecreateanimagebasedonacertainconceptbasedonthewordswethinkwe

are hearing. But that is not jnana. Only that which is directly apperceived isknowledge.

Thecapitalwehaveisthisknowledge"Iam."Butwhathavewedone?Wehave handed over that knowledge to the body and we say “I am the body.”Therebywehavereducedthetotality,thelimitless,tothelimited-aspecified,insignificantbody.Andthatiswhybeingunabletogiveupthisassociationwiththebody,weareafraidofdying.Ifanyideaistraumatic,itistheideaofdeath.Why?Becausewearenotabletodisassociateourselvesfromthisidentitywiththebody.

TheknowledgeItrytoconveywillnotbeacceptabletotheaverageperson.even if he happens to be interested in spiritual knowledge.This is because heexpectssomethingfromthepointofviewofthebody,thisidentificationwiththebody. In that state, asanobject,hewants toget something -knowledgeasanobject-whichisimpossiblebecauseknowledgeispurelysubjective.1

(1)Maharajobviouslydoesnotusethistermintheusualsenseof“amatterofopinion.”Heisreferingtotheknowledgethatliesbeyondthesubject-objectrelationship,whenthesubjectisknowinghimselfassubjectandnotasobject.

HowamusingitisthatallofyouarelisteningtowhatIamsayingbutdonotacceptwhat thewordsare tryingtoexpressregardingyour identity.Youlistenbuttherealmeaningunderlyingthewordsisnotaccepted;thereisnoreceptivityforwhatisbeingconveyed.ItisonlyarareonewhodirectlyapperceiveswhatIamtryingtosaywithoutthewords,oneintenmillion.

Youallentertainacertainconcept,andwhateverIsayyouaretryingtohavewithinthelimitsofthatconcept.Thenyousay,“yes,thatisacceptabletome.”Youlistentome,once,twiceorseveraltimes;thenattheendofacertainperiodyoucometotheconclusion:"IhavenotbenefitedmuchfromMaharaj'swords."Why ? Because, based on thewords you are trying to create an image aboutyourselves.Andwhen,whateverIsayappealstoyouaccordingtothatconcept.you say “Yes, now I have got the knowledge, and now I understand whatMaharaj is sayingandMaharaj is right.”Why?Becausewhat I sayappeals toyourconcept.

IwouldliketoknowfromallofyouwhetherwhatIsayappeals toyouastruthandisbeneficial.Irepeat:Whendoesonesaythatitisbeneficial?Whenittallieswiththeconceptonecherishes.Thenyousay“Yes,itisbeneficial.”Andwhenitdoesnot tally,yousay“Sorry, thatdoesnotappeal tome, it isnotforme.”

Westicktothewordsandthemeaning,forgettingthatwhatweareispriortoeventhebeginningofnotonlythewordbutalsothefirstbasicthought.

V:Then.thereisnocommunication,nograspofwhatisbeingsaid?

M:Istartedsayingthatthatwhichyouareispriortoanywordsorthoughts.So that cannot be identified as such. You can have a word and meaning foralmostanything.butforthissver[literally:“being"]thereisnoauthor,noword.Anyotherthinghasbeenorcanbeacquired,butwithrespecttothisthereisnoacquisition, you are That. Many of these japi-tapis, even those who considerthemselvesasjnanis,arestillentangledintheconceptbasedoncertainwords.

Anymindorword-createddesigncanhavenorealsignificancetoyou,foritisonlyconceptual;yourtruenatureissuchthatitcanhavenocolorordesign.

V:IhavereadthequestionsandanswersfromIAmThat.Ifoundithardtounderstand howMaharaj, though in the body, always answers questions fromthehighestlevelonly,andsomehowithasfilledmewiththegreatesthappiness;itmaybebodilyhappinessalso. Idonotwant tosayanythingabout that.Butboth of us, my son and myself, have had supreme moments of joy - "peakexperiences,"ifyoulike-duringthereadingofsomeoftheanswers.

M:BecauseIamstabilizedinthatforemostabsoluteprinciple,allthetalkwill emanate from that level only.Whenever you talk from the five-elementalbodily or consciousness state, that will pertain to theworldly life. But this ispurelytheknowledgerelatedtothehighest.

5.DONTBEIDENTIFIEDWITHA

CORPSE,ANDBEHAPPY!VISITOR:SittinginMaharaj'spresence,Ihadacertainbodilyexperience.

HowshouldIunderstandthis?

MAHARAJ:Intryingtounderstandtheexperience,whateversignificanceyourwordsandconceptsgivetoitwillbeacceptabletoyou.Butthatisnottheknowledge.

ThatiswhyIamnotverykeentoaskpeopletostayforanyextendedperiodoftime,becauseifyoudostaythatlongyouwillnotbeabletounderstand.Inthe course of your initial eight or ten days,whatever is somewhat understoodwill first have to be properly digested: until then any further talkswill not beabsorbed.Assuming that a person is knowledgeable, thenwhatwill happen isthis: having left this place, he will not be able to remain alone for long. Hecraves company towhomhe can deliver the goods of spirituality.He likes toseekoutsomebodywithwhomhecantalkanddiscussspirituality;otherwise,hefeels very unhappy. you feel happy and satisfied if you don't encounter othersadhakas?

Thequestionwasasked[bythetranslator]whetherit isnotnecessaryforaserious seeker to go through this stage where one likes to dole out whateverknowledgeonehas,toshareitwithothers?Myanswerwasthatthisisapartofthe process, but that it also must come to an end, this desire to discuss andexchangeviewsonspirituality.

That highest state is the unborn state. in which there is no experience.[Accordingtothetranslator,Maharajisnotfeelingwelltoday;heisveryweak,almostinadaze.]

Before thesicknessormypresentcondition,Iwas there.Thissicknesshascomeasa temporaryphase,but Iamprior to that.Peoplenormallyfeel,when

sicknesscomes,thattheyaregoingtodie.ButIamnotgoingtodie;thereisnodeathtome,butitisthesicknessthatwillacceptit.

Ifasickpersonwillrememberthisprincipleonly-thatpriortothesicknesshewasandhistruenatureiseverpriortothesickness-ifhetrulyrealizesthis,thentheimpactof thesicknesswillbeless.Ontheotherhand,whenso-called“knowledgeable”peoplearesick, theyaccelerate theirdeathby imagining thattheyaregoingtodie.

What do you understand by theword “dream”?Howdo you understand adream? Is not the dream something like a drama, a play? In the light of theconsciousness,allkindsofplaytakeplace;thedreamisoneofthese,andintheenditagainmergesintotheconsciousness.

Toonewhorealizesthatthisconsciousnessisanindicationofhispresence,that it is in factconsciouspresence -whenIamconscious, itmeans that Iampresent-allbewildermentceases.Thus,withinthatpresenceassuch,thereisnoindividualpresentwhoseessomething; that is, there isneither theseernor theseen in the impersonal presence. Again. I repeat, that impersonal presence ismerely an indication of presence as such, not of any individual. It is anassurance.aguaranteeofone'spresence.IfIhaveconsciousness,itmeansIamcertainthatIampresent.

To one who really understands what has been said here, a dream is nodifferent from what is seen in the waking state: both are plays in theconsciousness.Becauseof thelightof theconsciousness,wecallonethingthewakingstate,anotherthingthedream,butinessencebothareeventshappeningintheconsciousnessandessentiallytheyarenotdifferent.

In this impersonal presence as such, the only thing present is the light ofconsciousness,withoutanyformorshape.Whateverisseenisseeninthatlight.Manypeopleareundertheimpressionthattheyareactingintheplay;butthisisamistakennotion.Allthathappensisthatthelightoftheconsciousnessshowsvariousthingshappening.

V:Theactorispartoftheplay?

M:Whydoessomethingappeartousasactualorreal?Becausesomethingthatoneseeseverydayoroftenconveysasenseofrealityoractuality.Thereforeweacceptitasmoreactual,morereal,thansomethingthatappearsinadream,butessentiallytheyarethesame.

How is a jnani? The jnani is like the cigarette lighter, without the flame.

When the lighter is lit, the consciousness comes in.Andwhatever happens isseeninthelightofthatconsciousness.Butwhetherornotthereisthelightoftheconsciousness,thejnaniiseverthere.Indeepsleepweareliketheconditionoftheunlit lighter.There isno light, thereforenothinghappens.Buteven in thatstate,thelightmaycomeon;fromthemomentthatslightconsciousnessarises,thedreamoccursandoneappearstoactinthatdream,aspartofthedream.

I repeat, I am not talking aboutwhat happens to an individual. I am onlytalkingaboutthetotalmanifestationandhowthatmanifestationarises.Becauseof the impersonal consciousness, there is the impersonal presence. But adifficulty arises, because,while the composite consisting of body, vital breathandconsciousnesshasnoshapeorform,weidentifyallthreewiththebody,andso we become unhappy. But once we realize the basis of it - that the totalmanifestation is only in the impersonal consciousness, which is Presence,impersonal presence - there is no longer any difficulty.On the other hand, solongas thischargeofhavingamaleor femalebody isnot removed from thatwhich exists impersonally, the trouble will continue and unhappiness willpersist.

Thiscompositeofbody/vitalbreath/knowingnessdoesnotknowitselfas“Iam” in the absenceof that knowledge“I am.”Thevital force is alsoour self:without form. Similarly, the knowingness has no form. Now this vital forcedependsonthefoodessencebodytosustainitself;andonthemanas,thatisthemind : italso feedson themind.Thisvital force is theagent forallactivities.Andthisknowledge“Iam”isamerewitness,yetthisentirecompositemustbeavailable. To repeat: that vital force does not know itself. it does not go intoactivityintheabsenceoftheknowledge“Iam.”Andthatknowledgeisavailableonly if a sustainingbody is available.Now so long as youdonot remove thecharge that this vital force, and the knowledge “I am,” ismale or female, onaccountofbodilyassociation,youareboundtosuffer.

MaybetheexamplesIhavegivenaresomewhatpedestrian,butmyintentionwasonlytocreateastrongerimpact.

Howwouldajnanifeelwhenhegivesuphisbody?Whattypeofpleasureorblissdoesheexperience?Imagineanewlywedcouple:thepleasurewhichtheyderive from theirwedding night is as nothing compared to the highest bliss ajnanigetswhenbequitshisbodyorhislifeforce.Icallitthehighestblissinthebestfestival,onthe"highestday"(thetermnormallyusedinspiritualparlance).Comparedwiththeloveplayoftheweddingnight,whateverpleasurethecouplerealize in coming together, the happiness a jnani derives in getting separated

fromthevitalbreathandtheknowingnessisthousandsoftimessuperior.They[thecouple]arecomingtogether,heiscomingapart!

Take the example of this cigarette lighter. The latter is something likenirgunarajas,thatisthe“heatstate.”Myoriginal.truestateisnirgunarajas.Nowon the lighter, andbecauseof the lighter, that flameappears. In the flame, theknowledge“Iam”isthere,themindisthereandthevitalforceisthere.Thevitalforcecarriesoutalltheactivities.Themindcommunicates,andtheknowledge"Iam"ismerelyawitness;thisistheactualstateofaffairs.

Fortheemanationofanytalktheflamemustbeavailable.Thatis,the“I-am-ness”thevitalbreathandthemindmustbepresent;thenonlythetalkcancomeout.Mystateisnirgunarajas;Iamlikethatlighteronly:theflamemaybethereor itmaynot. I amnirguna andnirrajas, I haveno attributes; inmy state thatbeingnessisabsent.Similarly,Idon'trequireanyrajas;thatmeans,Idon'twantanyentertainmentactivities.Inmytruestate,nothingis.

Whentheknowingnessor“I-am-ness"stateisthere,andthevitalbreathandmindarealsopresent-thisbeingtherajasstate,ascomparedtothenirrajasstateof the lighter - some occupation or entertainment is essential. This can beobservedinallofus.Wecanneverstayidle:wearealwaysoccupiedwithonethingoranother.Whenthevitalbreathquitsthebody,the“I-am-ness”alsogoes;whatremainsisonlythenirrajas-nirgunastate.

TheformerIcalltheflamestate;thatis,the“I-am-ness.”EarlierIsaiditisthesagunabrahmanstate.Thatis,thebodyisthere,thevitalbreathisthere,themind is there, and that knowingness or "I-am-ness" is there.All that is beingentertainedbymaya.Thestate in theabsenceof thisbeingnessor themaya isthatnirguna-nirrajasstate-mayatita(priortomaya),theAbsolutestate.

Ahundredyears back,whatwereyou?At that time, youdidnot have theknowledge"youare."Thememory thatyouarewasmissing.Presently, in thetemporary phase, you have the knowledge “you are.” But to have thisknowledge, what are the prerequisites? The essence is required, sattva-guna.Thismeans thequintessenceof thefoodessenceisnecessary tosustain the“I-am-ness”orthisbeingness.Andthatessenceinturndependsonthefoodbody.But all these together - that is, food body quintessence, and the knowledge "Iam,"thevitalbreathandthemind-theseareallatemporaryphaseonly;solongasfoodessenceisavailable,theknowingnesswilllast.

Nowhowtoescapefromall this?Thisknowingnessis todiscoveritself; itshouldrealizeitself.Then,intheprocessofitsrealizationitisabletoquitthis

stateandabideintheAbsolute,inthenon-knowingnessstate.Soonemustabideinoneselffirst,intheknowingnessstate.

Wheneveryousit formeditation,youholdonto theform-concept thatyouareamaleorafemale.Giveuptheseconcepts!Todosuchmeditationisalmostimpossible;onlyarareonewilldoit,withoutthatidentificationwiththebody-mind.

V:Igetaglimpseofyourstate,astowhatyouare-intellectually,thatis.But in my daily life, I am so much under stress... my wife thinks this way,somebodyelsethinksthatway-Iamalwaysundertension.Sohowtogetridofthis?

M: Iamtellingyouasimple thing.Getridof thenotion thatyouare thiscorpse.Thebodyisdeadalways,thebodyisinert.Itisaliveonlybymeansofyour"I-am-ness."Youarenotthebody.Holdontothisconceptveryfirmly,andthenwhateverhappens,itisnotyours.

Somebodyisitchingtoaskquestions.[laughter]

V:Thereisquiteabiggapbetweenthatstateandmypresentstate.Thereisaconsiderabletimegap;Ihavetodosadhana,purifymyselfandallthat.HowcanImanagetodoallthesereligiousandworldlydutiesinmybusylife?

M:Youhaverecoursetonaturopathy;withthatnotonlywillyoudogoodtoyourselfbutalsotothesociety.Doallthesocialwork,andyouwillenjoylotsofmerit.

Astome.Iamfedupwiththisentirewakingstateandsleepstate.Withoutthesetwostates.Iwasintheperfect,peacefulstate.Didyoueverhearthewords“sorrow”and"misery"intheabsenceofthedeepsleepandwakingstates?Theknowledge“Iam” is theproductof interactionwithin the fiveelemental state.Youarenotthat!You,astheAbsolute,arenottheknowledge"Iam."

V:Mostofusarenotsatisfied.wearefedupwithlife;thereissomeurge,butitisnotsufficientlystrong,towithdrawfromthisdailygrind.

M:Howcanyoudisposeofthisproblem?Youresentthatyouarethebody.thatyouarethemind,youarethissattva-guna.Iamnotthebody.thatstandpointyoumusthave.

Itisverysimple.Thebodyandinthebody...it islikeacoin.Ononeside.youhavethevitalbreathformakingpossibleallactivity;andontheothersideistheknowledge“Iam.”Onlywhenthevitalbreathisthere,theknowledge"Iam"

is present.When the vital breath leaves the body, the knowledge "I am" alsodisappears.Andbothofthesearetheproductofthefoodessencebody.Iamnotthat;thisentirecompositeIamnot.Thisyouhavetorealize.

Who are your ancestors? They are the food particles - that food essence.Those food essences are your real ancestors. On the earth there is vegetativegrowth. I call it vanaspati. The quintessence of that vanaspati is the foodessence; out of that grows vachaspati. The lattermeans: insects,worms, bees,mammals,etc.-alltypesofcreatures.Theysurviveonthisessenceofvanaspati.Nowin thatvanaspati juice, thatquintessentialvegetation juice, there isalsoaparticle, a granule, which contains the sattva-guna, the rajas-guna and tamas-guna.The particle quintessence contains all three qualities. The sattva-guna ismere witness, beingness, a touch of "I-am-ness." Rajas-guna is activity; thisguna leads you to activity. And tamas-guna represents the claiming ofauthorship.takingthecredit,fortheactivities.

Unlikewhatonecanreadinthescriptures,yourancestorsareinthesegrainsof wheat and rice; in the essence of those are our ancestors. Therein the realessenceofourcreationiscontained.

6.THEEXPERIENCEOF

NOTHINGNESSVISITOR:ThereariseafeelingofsadnesswhenonehearsfromMaharaj

that Iwill have to returnagainandagain so longas I havenot attained thatstateofjoy,ofrealization.

MAHARAJ : It is just like that flame:You can quit this cycle of travailwhenyouunderstandthatyouarenotthatflame.Youarenotthiscomposite.Solongasyouentertainthenotionofbeinganameandaform,youareboundtobeenmeshedinyourownconcepts.

V:Whydoestheflameappear?

M:Thatisitsverynature.

V:Ifmynatureisinthelighter,whydoesaflameappear?

M:Thisisnotarelevantquestion.Whydoestherainfall?Whyshouldthesunshine?Thereisnocausefortheworldexperience.Foryourownexperiencethereisnocause,butyoupresumethatparentsarethecauseofyourexistence.Because you respect your parents, you accept they are the cause of yourexistence.Otherwise.youspontaneouslycameintoexistence.

V:Alltheknowledgethatscienceandtechnologyhavegivenusisbecauseofinquiring:Whydoesitrain,whydoesthatmove-thewhysandwhereforesofeverything.DoesMaharajwantus toquitall thisscienceand technology,anddwellinourinnerbeingthroughwithdrawal?Thatisaway,buthowtobalancethings?Afterall,wehavetoliveandwork.

M:Sciencemayeventuallycombinedifferentkindsof juicesandcreateahuman being, but it is not going to contribute to the general well-being andpeace.Thepeacewillgotopieces!Thereisonlyonesolution:thatistofindoutwhyyouare.Whatisthecauseofyourbeing,"Iam"?

Actually, you had no knowledge that you are or you were. But at thismoment,youknowyouare.Whyisthat?Understanditscause.Youaloneknowwhyyouare;whyit isoffered toyou thatyouare,youaloneknow.Don'taskanyoneelseabout it,but inquirebyyourself.Don'tbotheraboutothers;worryonlyaboutyourownself.Thatknowledge"Iam"istheproductofwhat,isduetowhat?Howandwhy?Inquireonlyintothismatter.

Ninemonthsagothechildwasnotthere.Nowjustthreedaysback,thechildwasborn.Andheiscrying.Whatisthechild'scrying?Whatisthischild?Howdoeshehappentobe?Thechildiscrying,duetowhat,theproductofwhat?

Theworldismanifestandexpansive.Don'tgetlostthere;justinquireastowhyyouare,howyouare,howyouhappentobe.Youwerenotthereearlier.Atpresent you are; how has this confluence taken place, from the "you-are-not"state...

V:Therearesomanydifferentcounsels:Goandvisitdifferentcountries,dothis,dothat,dosocialwork,getacquaintedwithdifferentpeople.etc.Alsothereiswithdrawal,havingreadthescriptures.RamanaMaharshi,Krishnamurtiandothers. So themind is doubting.For thiswithdrawal, one needs the help of aguru.IsthisgurupredestinedasitsaysintheVedas?

You know, I have seen different gurus; I have been to Krishnamurti,Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, and have read various books and differentteachings.Rajneeshseemstogiveamodernway,scienceandtechnologyalso...Maharaj gives one dimension only. He says: withdraw, be desireless and beactive.Howtodecidewhoisthebestguru?[laughter]

M: I am tellingyoua simple thing.Acceptone statement fromanyguru.Assimilatethatfullyandbelieveinyourself,considerandacceptyourownselfastheguru.Acceptnooneelseassuch.Thefinalprerequisiteforthisspiritualprecept is self-confidence, a firm faith inoneself. Ifyouhaveno faith inyourownself,youarehopeless.Youareanoutcast.Yourselfitselfistheguru.Doyouunderstandnow?TheguruisBrahman;theguruisknowledge,theguruisbrihaspati,andthesumtotalofallthatisyourownself.

***

V:IwanttoaskaboutG0d'sgraceandfreewill.

M:Thebarefactthatyouarealive,youare,thatitselfisthegraceofGod.Andalltheactivitiesthathappenthroughyouaretheexpressionofthegrace.

In such situations, if something bad happens, remember that “you are” -merely because of the grace ofGod. If the grace ofGodwere not there, that“you-are-ness”wouldnotbethere.Sorememberthat"youare"itselfisthegraceofGod.

V:Unintelligiblequestionaboutdoingjapa[recitinganameofGod].

M : Thewhole significance of doing japa dwells in your faith.Youmusthavefaithfirst.Yourself-identityisnourishedbysuchfaiththroughjapa.Don'tdoanythingmechanically.forthenthereisnosoulintherecitationofthejapa.Ifyoudon'trecitesoulfully,thereisnopointinitatall.Doplentyofdhyana-yogameditation.Practicemeditation.moreandmore.

***

M: Iwould like tomake room fornewcomers.Eightdays for themonly;thatshouldbesufficientforeveryone.SomepeopleIwillrequesttostay;Ican'texplainwhy.And some people, although theywould like to stay, I will sendaway. There are various kinds of seekers. Some come exclusively forknowledge:theyarenotinterestedinthepersonwhodeliversit.Oncetheygettheknowledge,theygo.Otherpeoplewantknowledgebutforthemthepriorityis guru worship. Devotion to the guru comes first and only incidentally theycollectknowledge.

Therearesomegreatsageswhointheirseekerstageusedtododevotionorworshipofagodonlyfornamesake,butbecauseof their intensityofdevotionreachedtheirgoal.Theonewhoisdoingdevotiontohisguru,tosuchapersoneventhegodisdevoted.

***

INTERPRETER : Because of Maharaj's sickness, many types of expertshavecomeheretooffertheiradvice.Sotodayonepersontoldhimthatheknewofahealerwhocoulddiagnoseanillnessbyfeelingthetenfingersandtentoesandcouldthensuggestsometreatment.SoheapproachedMaharajwhetherhewouldbeinterestedtohavesuchapersoncometoseehim.ButMaharajsaidhewasnot interestedandcontinuedtostate:"Iamnot theleast interestedinthisdailyritualofgettingupinthemorning,eatingandagainsleepingandallthis...Ihavehadenoughofallthat.IdonotexpectanythingfromthisWorld.Iamnotgoing toachieve, attain, possessanything,because I am fedupwith that veryconsciousness out of which the world is created and want to get rid of thisconsciousness."

M:Peoplearevisitingthisplace.Itreatthemwithrespect.andreplytoalltheir questions. But this does not mean that I expect them to come daily.Althoughtheycomehere,itdoesnotmeanthatIamseekingtheirassociation.Iwouldliketobealone.

Whatevernaturalexperiencesyouencounter,justacceptthemastheycome.Justbewiththem.Don't trytoalteranything.Whateveris today, itneverwas;andwhateveristodaywillneverbeinfuture.

Knowing this entire game of consciousness or Maya, the great sageJnaneshwarmade his valedictory prayer before taking samadhi. He prayed toGodandsaid:Letthedesiresofallbefulfilled.Anykindofdesire!Andthen,letthe bad people be punished and let good intentions develop in the hearts ofpeople.Inspiteofthatprayer,therewasnochangeinthesumtotalofthosebadthings and good things. Finally, all this play - the sum total of all these badthingsandgoodthings-isillusiononly.Andthereisnobodyresponsibleforthecreation! It has spontaneously come about and ultimately it is an illusion. Sothereisnoquestionofrectifyingorpreventingthat.Itwillgooninitsownway.

There have been so many sages. japi-tapi's [seekers practicing japas andtapas(austerities)],spiritualseekersofvariousorders,theyhavecomeandgone,butIraisenoobjectiontowhatevertheysayorthewaytheybehave.Ihavenocomments on them. I have come to the conclusion that the world isspontaneouslytherewithoutanyseed[cause];itscreationisseedless,butintheworld it is full of seeds forme. Procreation or re-creation is going on all thetime.

V : Since Maharaj is a jnani, he must be despising this whole world assomethingverymeanandlow?

M:Thatquestiondoesnotarise,becausefrommystandpoint theworld isnot.You indicate tomewhere is theworld,what is theworld?Canyoupointyour finger and say: "This is the world"? The World is not; it is a mereappearance.

V : Having attained knowledge, how is it that you have been able toassociatewithvariouskindsofpeople?Some fellowsmightbeverybad, somepeoplemaybeobsessedbytheirminds,somepeoplearegood-howcouldyougetonwithallsuchpersons?

M:Whoistogeton?Ihavenopose,nostance,nofixedformofmyown.IfIhad,itwouldbedifficulttorelatetoanybody.SinceIdon'thaveanyform,by

nothingnessIhavebecomethesubtlest,soIcanfitintoanything,anysituation.

Suppose a man is rich, he is wearing a lot of ornaments and expensiveclothes; when he leaves his house there is always danger lurking. This is onaccountofthefactthatherepresentssomanyideas,concepts,andbecauseofhisreputationthatheissomebody,thatheisarichman.Heisafraidofgoingintothestreet.Anakedbeggarwhogoesintothestreethasnothingtolose.Similarly,havinglosteverything,Ihavenothingmoretolose;Icanencounteranysituationandfitintoanything.

Solongasyouwearanameandaform,alltheseproblemswillbethere.Intheabsenceofnameandform,therearenoproblems.Letussay.Ihavelandandproperty,withfarms,etc.AboutthetimeoftherainstherearealwaysconcernssuchaswhetherIwillbeabletotillthesoil,whetherthereareseedsavailable,etc.;allsuchworriesexist.Afterlosingthefarms,Iamfreedfromsuchconcernsandallthatcanbeignored.

While sticking toyournameand form,youhave toworryabout things, Inthespiritualpursuit,yougradually loseyour formandas theformisshed, thenamealsodetachesitself.Thereareeversomanycustomers;allareouttogainandpossesssomethinginthenameofknowledge,evenspiritualknowledge,butnobodyisacustomerforthetrueself-knowledge.

Iwilltellyouaboutthenormaltendencyofaperson.Thereisthestoryaboutanoldman,quitewelloff,whohadavery satisfying family life, hadworldlypossessions, andhad lived to about a hundredor a hundred-twenty-five years.Andnowheliesonhisdeathbedinhisvillagehouse.Normallyinthevillageseven the cattle shed is attached to themain building itself. So you canwatchfromthebedroomandseethecattleshed.Evenonhisdeathbed,hewillnotbeinclinedtothinkingverynoblethoughts,hewillnotbecontemplatingsomethingvery“high.”Heislookingatthecalf,andthecalfwaschewingabroomstick.Hewas veryworried about the broomstick getting damaged, so hewas shouting:"Offwiththebroomstick!."whileabouttokickthebucket.Hewascallingout:“Thebroomstick,thebroomstick!Takecareofthebroomstick!”Whileutteringthat“broomstick,broomstick...”hebreathedhislast.

Thetraditionalconceptisthatwhateverstrongconcernonehasatthetimeofdeath,hewillbereincarnatedinto.Soprobablyhewillbebornasabroomstick!

***

M : The question is: What yardstick exists to measure the progress of a

seeker?A veryweakmanwas not able towalk.Gradually, he started gettingstrongerandbegantowalk.Sothenheknowsthathehasregainedhisstrength,doeshenot?Theindicationofone'sprogressisshownbyyourdisinclinationtoassociatewithso-called“normal”people.Yourdesiresandexpectationsgetlessandless.

Pleaseasksomequestions.butdon'taskanythingaboutfamilylife:askonlyaboutspiritualknowledge.

Youmust have an intense hunger or need for it, to get self-knowledge orspirituality.Thecompleteworldpictureyouget through the fivesenseorgans,and the combination of that multiplied by a certain factor represents yourworldlyneeds.Just likeafishoutofwatergaspsforwater,soyoumustcovetself-knowledge.When out of intense hunger for spirituality or self-knowledgethefloodgatesareopened,youstartrejectingeverything,fromthebroomsticktoIshvara,uptoyourownconsciousness;youshedeverything.

In theworldly life,with the power ofmoney, you can purchase anything.Similarly,bydonatingtheself,yougettheBrahmanstate:andwhenyoudonatetheBrahmanstate.yougettheParabrahmanstate.Inthefirststate,youbecomethemanifest consciousness ; in the second or the last state, you surrender theconsciousnessalso.AttheendoftheprocessyouaretheParabrahman.

V : I know the experience of the nothingness, and I just wanted to knowwheredoIgofromhere?

M:Inthatnothingness,whatispresent?That"you"whichhasbeenpresentin thatnothingnessandhashad theexperienceofnothingness,whoorwhat isthat?Someoneorsomethinghashadtheexperienceofnothingness:nowwhatisthatsomeoneorsomething?

V:Completeemptiness.

M:Whatisthatexperienceitself?Doesithaveashapeorform?

V:Ican'tthinkofanyshapeorformforit.

M:Thatwhichhasnoshapeorform,isthat“you”?

V:Idon'tknow.IhaveonlyhadthisexperienceandIfeeleverythoughtandeverythingelsewasjustalotofrubbish.Everythingintheworldisjustalotofnonsense,ithasnomeaning.TheonlythingIhavegotis“nothing.”thatistheonlythingthathasmeaning.Ican'texpressit...

M : That is all right. But in the balance of all this experience and no-

experience, what is it that you think you are?What is your knowledge aboutyour own identity ? What result have you got? What is the balance sheet ?Ultimately.whatistheconclusionyouhavearrivedataboutyourself?Istheresomethingatall.orareyoualsonothing?

V:Iamnothing.

M:Don'tusetheword“I.”Butwhatisitthatisnothing?

V:Idon'tknow.

M:Haveyoudoneanymeditation?

V:TherewasaseminarofEST,afour-daycourseofcontinualmeditation;Iwenttooneofthose...andthat'swhereIgottheexperienceofnothingness.

M:WhatdoesESTstandfor?

V : EST is an organization; it means "to be" in French. It is a regularinstitutionthatgivesseminars.

M : The answer you have given is correct. Butwith that answer, there isnothing further that can be said. Have you come to that conclusion withconviction?

V:Yes,Ihave.Yousee,Ihavefeltthatthisnothingness,ifit indeedistheultimaterealitythatIhavebeenlookingfor,thenIamnothappywithitbecauseitdoesnotseemtonurtureme.

M:Ifthereisnothingness,thenthereisnothingnessabout[nothingleftof]anindividualeither.Sowhoisitwhoisgrumbling,whoisnotsatisfiedwiththeexperience, with the nothingness? If there is nothingness, there must be totalnothingness.Therecan'tbeanindividualwhoisawayfromitandcanstillsay."Thereisnothingness."Sowhatisthisindividual,whoisnotsatisfiedwiththetotalnothingness,whichitis?Whoisdissatisfied?Whoisgrumbling?

Inthatnothingness,theindividualalsomustbedissolved.Thenwhoisitthatisgrumbling?Whoisitthatisnotsatisfied?

V : Oh. grumbling means...there is no interest now in doing anything orfightingthebattlesoflifeasweusedtodobefore,likewarriors.

I:Sothatindividualhasbeendissolved?

V:Thereisnothing,absolutelynothing.

I : Then, where is the dissatisfaction? Dissatisfaction must be felt by

somebody!

V:Howcanoneliveinthisworld...

I:Butwho?ThatisMaharaj'squestion!

V:Thephysicalbody,thephysicalmanifestation.Howcanitliveandhowcanitsurviveonthisearthwithaformifallthetimeithasgotthisconceptofcompletenothingness?

M:Icomebacktothesamething.Whatisitthathastodoanythinginthisnothingness?Whatisitthatisleftinthisnothingnesswhohastodoanything?

V:Perhapsthisnothingnesswasonlyabeginning,andwasjustaquestlikeeverythingelse.

M:Somethinghasturnedintonothingness.Whatisthatsomethingthathasturnedintonothingness?ThisconsciousnessthatIam,thatIexist,thatconceptitselfhasturnedintonothingness.Sowhatisleft?Whoisleft?

V:Nothingisleft.

M:Theanswerisahundredpercentcorrect.ButIwantedtofindouthowsteadyyouareinthatnothingness.Whatisorisnot,don'targueaboutthat:wecanonlytalkaboutwhathashappenedtoyou.Andyouasanindividualortheconsciouspresencehasbeendissolvedintonothingness.Thatisallyoucansay.

Once you are in that situation. there is nothing; whatever work you do,whatever your behavior, is the work and behavior of that child of a barrenwoman,thatdoesnotexistasanindividual.

V:No.I feelasif lamanobservertothiswholething;it isallamassiveplay.youknow-anact.

M: If the onewho observes that is also dissolving into nothingness, thenwhat?

V:Buthecan't,becausethephysicalbodyisthere.

M:Theanswerwasahundredpercentcorrect.Therefore,Iassumethatthattowhichthisanswerhasbeenhasalsobeendissolvedintonothingness,andthatthereisnoindividualityleft.ButfromyoursubsequenttreatmentofthisproblemIconcludethatthisindividualitystillremains.Therefore,myfinalanswertoyouisthatyoucontinuetodoyoursadhana.

Thejnaniwhohasthisexperienceofnothingness,hisindividualitydoesnot

remain. So whatever happens, he no longer has an instrument with which toundergoanyexperience.Butinyourcase.yousaythatnothingnessisthere,andalsoyour individuality- the twoare incompatible[that is,mutuallyexclusive].Therefore,continue todoyoursadhana. Ifyou reallyareata stagewhereyoufindthenothingness.whatthenislefttodoanythinginthisworld?

V:Thereisnothingleft.ButthenwhatshouldIdo,commitsuicide?

M:Youarenotthereeventodie!

V:No.Iappreciatethat.Thatisnottheanswereither.Nothingisananswertothis.ButwheredoIgofromhere?

M:TheladywasexplainingthatthereareallkindsofESTtypeofmethodsandsystemswhichcomewiththepromiseofliberationintenortwelvedays.Asformyself, I no longer care about all this. I have come to this nothingness inwhich the search has ended because the seeker has also disappeared into thatnothingness of which we are talking. I no longer take any interest in thatresearch.First.IhaveseducedMayaandoncetheMayasurrenderedtome.IhadnootheruseforMayasoIthrewherout.

Thousandsoforganizationshavecomeandgone,thousandsareyettocome.Allofthemarebasedonacertainconcept.Forexample,onehadtheconceptofuntouchability;nowtoacertainextentthatconceptofuntouchabilityhasgone.But have the people because of that concept been able to realize their truenature?Therefore,noneoftheseorganizationshaveanyuse;theultimatethingis to find out about one's true nature. In this, organizations can do nothing,becausetheyareallbasedonacertainconcept.

V:Butthisorganizationputmeintouchwithmybeingnessandthatisthewholepoint.

M : In that very nothingness which we have been discussing, theindividualityshouldhavebeendissolvedsothatthereisnolongeranyonewhoissatisfied or dissatisfied.Howcould he be satisfied, because there is no longeranythingtobesatisfiedin,inthatnothingness?Sowhatyouhavegotisnotthereal thing, although your answer was a hundred percent correct. Only thatindividualwhohas losthis individualityhasmergedwith theParabrahman.Sotheindividualitymustgo.Theentireworldmovesonthebasisofoneconcept.andthatis“Iam”-thefundamentalconceptofone'sindividuality.

V :When the basic concept is “I amnothing,” how can theworldmove?ThatiswhatIamtryingtoexpress.

M: Ifyouhadcometo theconclusion thatyouarenot, thenhowcananyfurtherconceptoranyfurtherquestionarise?Ifyouhadreallycometothefirmconclusionthatisnolongerthere,howcananyfurtherquestionariseatall?

V:Thatmeansthereisnothingfurtherthanthat?

M:Everythingthatisthere,itisfullnessanditisnothingness.SolongasIdo not have that “I-am-ness.” I no longer have the concept that I am anindividual. Then my individuality has merged into this everythingness ornothingnessandeverythingisallright.

V:Butthereisnoeverythingness,itisnothingness.Idonotgetthefeelingofeverythingness.ThatiswhatIamtryingtosay.

M : So if there is nothingness, then who is to do anything anyway?Assuming that there is nothingness,who is there to search for anything, eveneverythingness?Inthatnothingness,youarealsonotthere.Thenwhoisit thatwantsanythingmorethanthis?

V:Idon'tknow.

M : Again the answer that you don't know is a hundred percent correctbecauseinthatstatewhereyoudidnotknow,youdidnotevenknowthatyouexisted.And this "I-am-ness" has come subsequentlywithout yourwanting it.Andwhateverknowledgeyouhavenowhasbeenaccumulatingsincethearrivalofthis“I-am-ness.”Butinyouroriginalstate,thenot-knowingisthere.

V:TheproblemiswheredoIgofromhere?

M : Who? The question is “who” is to go anywhere? It started with thewhole thing and the circle is now complete. In that nothingness, we are alsonothingness.Sowhoistogoanywhere?Forwhomarethereanymorequestionsleft?Inthatnothingness,anythingisnothingness.Youarealsonothingness.

Your question is very much like the child of a childless couple asking“WheredoIgofromhere?”Whereishetogo?Andfromwherehashecome?Iwill continue with the same old simile. A very old couple are held in greatesteem,loveandreverencebyalltheiracquaintances.Sothecoupledies.Alltheacquaintances decide that theymust do something for the child.But the childhadnotbeenborn.Forwhomcouldtheydosomething?

Once the knowledge of the self dawns, there is no longer any question ofgoodorbad,sufferingornotsuffering,happinessorunhappiness; thequestionjustdoesnotarise.

Arethereanyfurtherquestions?

V : If the jnani is beyond consciousness and unconsciousness, he mustcontainconsciousness.The jnani,afterall, is the totality.Howcan thatwhichcontainsconsciousnessnotbeconscious?

M:Knowledge, theentiremanifestation, is the formofknowledge, jnana.Butthejnanihasnoformorshape;hehastranscendedconsciousness.Therefore.whatever acts is the universal consciousness and not the jnani. So don't talkanymore about the jnani. Rather talk about this consciousness - individualconsciousness or the universal consciousness - which is the basis of all yourthoughts.Sothatsubjectyoushoulddiscuss.Forgetaboutthejnani,becauseheisbeyond that.Andwhateveryou think the jnani is talkingabout, it isnot thejnanitalkingbuttheuniversalconsciousness.

Whateveryoudiscuss.itcanonlybeonthebasisofthis"I-am-ness."Forgetaboutthisjnaniaspect,inquireonlyaboutjnana.

V:Thatiswheretheshoepinches:thisconflictbetweenjnanaandthejnani.However high you go, however deep you go inwardly, unless you become ajnani,therewillalwaysbeapaththatgoesbeyondit;onewillnotbesatisfiedwiththeuniversalconsciousness.onewilleverwanttogofurther.

M:There is noquestionof anyonebecoming a jnani.The jnani is out oftime,soonecannotbecomeone.Ajnaniintheprocessofstabilizinginthejnanastate possesses for some time the pride of that "I am Brahman" state andthereforetalksaboutit.That,however,isnottheultimatejnanistate.Iwillnotparticipateinanyconceptofyours.

V : There are a group of ethical concepts – loyalty, gratitude, justice,keepingone'sword,etc.Now,ithasalsobeensaidthatthisissomethingbeyondgood and evil, neither good nor bad, etc. But certain groups of concepts likethoseImentionedseemtobeinseparablyconnectedtotheconceptofthemanofachievement. In other words, one assumes that such a man would somehowembodythesequalities.Myquestionis:Isthatrightorisitjustanillusion?

I:Whatdoyoumeanby“amanofachievement”?

V:Ajnani.

I:Ah,butamanofachievementintheworld,thatisquitedifferent.

M:Allthequalitiesyoumentionedaswellasallpossiblequalitiesyoucanimagineare in consciousnessorknowledge.The jnani, however, isbeyondall

qualitiesandconcepts.

V:O.K..Ihaveonesupplementtomyquestion:Doessuchapersonwant...

I : No, because there is no “person.” Therefore, all the qualities are inknowledge or the consciousness. The jnani is beyond all concepts and allqualities. He is no longer an individual; therefore, whatever applies to anindividual does not apply to him. That is the answer to the question. All themisconceptionsarisebecausewe thinkof the jnaniasan individual.The jnanihaslosthisindividuality.

Maharajexplainsthatheisnotonlynotanindividual,butheisalsobeyondthedualityofmanifestationandnon-manifestation.

Doyouhaveanyquestions?

V:No.

I : What has happened? No questions! Silence is a good defense, self-protection.Maybe,youareafraidtoexposeyourself.

V: Is itcorrect toassumethatsomebodywhois tobewhatMaharaj talksaboutwillordinarilymanifestthequalitiesofjustice,loyalty,gratitude.honesty,etc.?

M:Thatisnotnecessarilysoatall.Evenamurderercangetknowledge.Hispast deeds or the absence of these good qualities never come in the way. Aclassical example is Valmiki, who wrote Ramayana. For every murder hecommittedheputa tinypebbleinavessel,andinthismannerheaccumulatedsevenenormousvesselsfilledtothebrim.Allthesemurdershehadcommitteddidnotpreventhimbeingajnani.

Ultimately.alltheseconceptscanandmustbeunderstoodtobefalse,butthedifficulty and the essential thing is to be convinced that the original, basicconcept“Iam”itselfisfalse.

Youlikethetalks?

V:Ilikegettinganswers.

M : Having obtained and digested the answers, one's ego must graduallydissipate.

Iftherearenofurtherquestions,wewillclosethismeeting.

7.WHENCONSCIOUSNESS

MANIFESTS,DUALITYAPPEARSMAHARAJ:Ifyouwanttorememberourcomingherethismorning,treat

that as the highest godwhich gives us the sense of presence - this consciouspresence,whichmakesusfeelthatweare,weexist,wearealive.wearepresent.Ifyoudo,itwillunfolditselfandgivesusallthenecessaryknowledge.

Youmusthave the firmest conviction that this consciousness is ourparentprinciple, the highest god; then youwill have all the necessary knowledge. Ifthere is oneprinciplewhich can saveus,which is our capital, it is thatwhichgivesusthesenseofpresence,thisconsciousness.Beonewithit,praytoit,andtreatitastheonlygod.Whateverwehave,whateverweacquire,isonlybecauseofthisconsciousness,andtobeonewithitwedon'trequireanyimplements,anyinstruments,anymoney;thereisnoexpenseinvolved!

Thisconsciousnessisfreeofinhibitions,anyconditions,and,beingwithoutobstructions,itistotallyfree.Ifweresorttoit,itwillalsomakeusfree.

VISITOR:Whyisitthatthejnaniisnotawareoftheuniversalknowledge?

M:Whyisthespaceunawareofanythingthathashappened?Howisitthattheskyisnotaffectedbyeventshappeningonearth?Behindthefourelements-air,water,fireandearth-thespaceisalwaysthere.

V:Whatismeantbya“pureheart”?

INTERPRETER : Please, don't ask frivolous questions. Whatever energyonehastospare,letusspenditonvaluablequestions.

V:Onequestionusuallyleadstoanother,andtherehasgottobeastartingpointsomewhere.Soaquestionlikethisismovingaheadalittlebit,stimulatingmorequestions.

I :Here it should be just the otherway. The frequency or the intensity ofquestions should be getting less and less. If your questions are multiplying,somethingmustbewrongsomewhere.

V:YesterdayIcamehereandfoundthe“Iam,”WhatdoIdonow?

M:Nothingelse,thatisall.Youforgetitandgo!

V : I have been to Tiruvannamalai quite a number of times, in RamanaMaharshi'sashram.AGermanladythereshowedmeabookontheteachingsofMaharshiandtoldmeasimilarteachingandphilosophyexisted-thatgivenbyMaharaj.

M:HowlonghaveyoubeengoingtoRamanashram?

V:Onlyforthepastfiveyears.

I:Didyoureadhis[idMaharaj's]bookIAmThat?

V:Ionlyreadoneortwoquestionsonthesubjectofdeath.

M : You have been reading Ramana Maharshi's book and found itinteresting.Inwhatwaydidyoufinditsowithreferencetoyourself?

V:Myorientationhasbeenbasicallyadvaitavedanta,sothatIhavebeenreadinginhisbook.

I:Havingreadthosebooks,wouldyouliketoaskanyquestions?

V:Iamfeelinghappyintryingtofollowthisphilosophy.Isthereanecessitytomeeta livingguruor is itsufficient tohave faith inaguruwhohas lefthisbody?

M:Theaimistoawakenyourselftothefaithintheself,"Iam."Thatistheentire purpose. Sowhatever is inducive to that development youmay accept.Supposingyouhavefaithinalivingguru,thenacceptalivingguru.Ifyouhavefaithinaguruwhohaslefthisbody,acceptthatguru.

V:Butistheremorebenefittoonetypeovertheother?

M :When you were not knowing anything, what was the first thing youcametoknowinyourwholespanoflife?

V:Theself.Andthencameotherthings.

M:Youstartedwithknowingnothing,includingyoudidnotknowyourself.Sowhatisitthatyoustartedknowingfirst?

V:IstartedreadingtheGita,readingKrishna.

M:Youdidnotknowanything.Youdidnotknowyourselfeither!SowhereisthescopeforGita?

Atthistimeofyourlife,whenyouwerenotknowingyourself,whatwasthefirstthingyoucametoknowabout?

You started knowing so many things, after you started knowing yourself.Youcametoknow“Iam,”and thenyoucametoknowother things.Howdidthathappen?

V : It happened probably because of my previous karma, my prarabdhakarma.

M:Theseareallstoriesyouhaveheard.Afteryoucametoknowyourself,youstartedknowingsomanythings.Butwhatknowledgedidyouhavebeforeevenyoucametoknowyourself?

V:Onecomes toknowallkindsofworldly things.but theworlddoesnotbringmeanyhappinessorpleasure.Butreadingthesebooks...

M:Pleasereplytothequestion.

V:Ihaveprobablynotunderstoodproper1y...thequestion.

M:Howdidyoucometoknowyourownself?Afterwards.youcandosomanythings.Howdidthathappen?

V:Theselfcametoknowthisbody.

M:Firstofall,thisknowingnessappeared,theknowingness“Iam”;lateronyouembracedthebody.

V:Correct.

M:Holdontothisonly,anddon'taskanyquestions.

Iamaddressingtheconsciousness,amexpoundingconsciousnessintermsofthesameconsciousness.

Youcametoknowyourself,“Iam.”Toabideinthatisitselfthebhakti,thedevotion.Beforetheappearanceof"I-am-ness,”whereisthedevotion?

V:Ihaveaquestion.

M:Ihavenotheardanyonestartingquestions.Igaveyouspecialtimeforthatbutyoudidnotspeakup.

Whateveryouhaveheardappliestoyoutotallyandexclusively.Acceptthatfully.Thestateyouwereinbeforeyouembracedthebodyasyourself,thatstateis theguruofallgurus,That is theBrahman-noteven theBrahman, it is theParabrahmanonly.Subsequently,youbegantofallintogrosserstatesandfinallyyouembracedthebodyasyourself.Beforeyouoccurredtoyourselfas“Iam.”youwere in the highest state - the guru of the gurus - the Parabrahman state.Lateronyoustartedfillingupwithallkindsofgrossermatters,andyoucamedown to the body sense - "I am the body." So all these impurities have to beremoved.Untilthen,youhavetostayputinquietude.

Your fall started with the appearance of that beingness, “I am.”With theappearanceofthisknowingness“Iam.”thenextfallwasembracingthebodyas“Iam."Andthenyougatheredsomanythingsontoyourself.Holdontothestateof knowing yourself as "I am" as the truth. All the other things you havegatheredtoyourselfareunreal.

[Toaparticularvisitor]Presently,youare inquietude. Is iton this sideofsleep or on the other side? You are only the consciousness feeling theconsciousness. Consciousness touches the consciousness. You are heading forthat experience. known as death, of which you have heard. And you have torealizehowthatdeathexperienceisunreal.Withallourexperienceintheworld,and notwithstanding all our struggles there, we are heading only towards theinevitabilityofdeath.Butthatdeathisunreal.Ifdeathwerereal,thenthedeathofoneanimalwouldsignifytheendoftheentirespecies.

Solongastheconsciousness“Iam”isnotstimulatedintoknowingnessthereisnoknowingnessatall.Thatverystimulus, that“I-am-ness,” is thesourceoftheentiremanifestworldofyours. In theabsenceof theawakeningof this"I-am-ness," where is the question of “mine” and "thine"? Only after theappearance of "I-am-ness." I and others come into play. Without this “I-am-ness” there can be neither "I am" nor others. If you investigate this aspect ofspirituality, then there is no question of birth and death. But if you don'tinvestigate thisparticularaspect,youremaininvolvedin thecycleofbirthanddeath.

V:IfIknowmyself,ifIrealizemyself,maytherebeatransformationinmyworldlylife?

M : What do you mean by “worldly life” and what do you mean by“transformation”?Yourworldly life is allyourconcept, is allyourmindonly.Wearedealingwiththatprinciplewhichispriortomind.Thismaybedescribed

by saying that you are putting on various shrouds.Before you knewyourself,that was your true state. The first shroud was that of “I-am-ness”; then youembraced the body as yourself, and then so many other shrouds. All theseshroudshavetobepealedoff,including“I-am-ness.”

Fromtheno-knowingstate,thefirstveilItookwasthatof"Iam."Thatwasformless, nameless.But I embraced thebody: I got a form formyself, I got aname for myself. This was the fall. Therefore all sages advise: Give up theshacklesofthebody!"Iamthebody”-thesearetheshackles.Givethemup.

V:Howtogetridofthisbody-mindsense?

M:Howtoforget?Whoremembersandwhoknowsthatheremembersandforgets?Theonewhoknowsthememoryandnon-memorystatesisbodiless;heispriortobodyandmind.Ifyoucanimbibetotallytheessenceofwhatisbeingsaidrightnow,youwillstabilizeintheParabrahmanstateonly.

Youarenotbeginnersinthesphereofspirituality.Youhaveacquiredalotofspiritualwisdom.Nowpleaseaskquestions.

Theonewhodistinguishesbetweendifferentstate-thisiswithbody,thatisbodiless, this is this, this is that -standsquiteapart fromall those things.Andyouaretheonewhodistinguishes.Youaretheonethat is thepurest, themostauspicious,thecleanest.Sincethatisyourstate,youareinapositiontoassessthequalityofotherstates.Withthisunderstanding,carryoutyourworldlylife,family life, with full zeal. But the point is this: If you really understand andabideinwhatIsay,naturallyyourdesiresandexpectationswillfalloff.

V:Withthefallingoffofdesiresandattachments,therecomesafeelingofnotwantingtodoanything...

M:ThatleadstotheParabrahmanstate.Whatistheusetothatstateofalltheambitions,expectations,desires?Whatdoesitneed?Nothingatall,foritistheperfectstate.

V:Yougettothepointthatyoudon'tcareforanythinganymore,neithertheBrahmanstatenoranything.

M:Yes.Youwon'tcaretoknowthatyouaretheBrahmanalsointhatstate.

Wouldyoutakedeliveryofthistalk,acceptallofthis?

V:Alittle![laughter]

I:Itisnotchild'splaythatheistalkingabout.

V:Therejustseemstobeatotaldisenchantmentwiththeworld.

M:Whatdoyoumeanbydisenchantment?

V:Itcomesasapreferencefornotwantingtobehere-"here"meaning“intheworld.”

M:Itwillhappenonlywhenyourealize"Iamnotlikethis,notlikethat...,"ifyoueliminateeverything.Inthatstate,youwillhavenocolor,nodesign,noform,noname.

V:Then,thereisnolongeranydesiretopracticespiritualityeither.

M:Thattypeofdispassioniscalledvairagya.Vairagyameansnoraga;ragameanslove,lovetobe.Lovetobeisalsotobediscarded.

V:Thatbringsalongsadness.

M:Thatistheemotionalstate...anaspectofthebody-mind,thissadness.Ifyouarenotcompletelyclearofthisbody-mindsense,thesadnessisboundtobethere.

[Totwovisitorsinparticular]Wherenobodywashereearlier.Igavebothofyouaverygoodopportunitytotalk,andnowyouareitchingtotalk.

V:MayItalknow?

M:Youshutoffallyourquestionsbyyourpreviousstatementthatyouhadfoundyourself.Thatmeanstheobjectofyourspiritualsearchhasbeenreached.Pleaseexplainyourselfingreaterdetail.Beforeyoucamehere,whatwereyouandaftermeetingmewhatareyou?Iwouldliketohear.

V:BeforeIcamehere,everythingseemedtogooninhere[pointingtoherhead]andIlookedatmybodyandthoughtofmybodyallthetime:andIusedtobeconcernedaboutmoney,veryconcerned...andalsowhetherornot Iwouldhaveajob.AndsometimesIworkedveryhardtounderstandthe“Iam,”Ireadyourbooksandlistenedtotheteachings...Itriedveryhardtostayinthe“Iam”,andIwouldmeditate.

M:Andthen?

V:Then,Ifoundmyselfheresomehow.andIsaid“Iam”andIknewit.

M:Youunderstood"youare"?whatisthecolorofthat,thedesignofthat?Whatistheimageofthat?

V:Nothing.

M:Findit!Thenkeepquiet.

V:[Unintelligible,abouttheneedfordisciplines]

M:Untilyoumeetyourownself,"Iam,"they[thedisciplines]areallverynecessary.Onceyouabideinyourownselftheyareuseless,forthenyouarenomorethebodyandnolongerconcernedwithallthedisciplinespertainingtothatbody.

V:Whataboutsinsandmeritsafterabidanceinmyself?

M:Thesearequalitiesrelatedtothebody-mind.Sothemomentyouarenolongerthebody-mind,thesequalitieshavenofurtherscopewithyou.

Firstofall,weconditionourselvesintothebody:weindoctrinateourselveswiththeidea“Iamthebody.”Anexampleistheair.Whentheaircomesintothe body, it is called prana. It is conditioned by the body and confined to thebody.Onceitisdisassociatedfromthebody,thatvitalbreathorpranabecomesmanifest;itistheuniversalair.Notonlyuniversalair,itbecomestheuniversalspace also. So the space is not conditioned by the body. That air is notconditionedbythebody.Similarly,youridentityisnotassociatedandlimitedbythebody;thereforenoneoftheconditioningsofthebodyisbindingonyou.Byyourverynature,youarethatdynamic,manifestconsciousnessonly.

Nodoubt itdependson thisqualityof“I-am-ness”on thevitalbreath.Thelattermeansaironly-airfunctioninginthebody.Thisairandtheknowingnesscausethe“I-am-ness.”Outofpranagrowstheworld;andworldmeansthemind.Allthatconstrues“you.”Sowhenthevitalbreathquits,thereisnomore“I-am-ness,”butthedoesnotdieoffandremainlikeadeadbody.

V:Whatisliberation?

M:Whenyouareliberatedfromthebody-mindsense,sothatyouarenotthe body-mind, that itself is liberation.My languagemay not satisfy you, butdon't get upset by that.You should try to understand themeaning behindmywords.

Whenyouare really liberated,whenyou firmlycome to the conclusion “Iamnotthebody.northevitalbreath.”theilluminationisperfect.

Are you the vital breath? Pay attention to the vital breath. Are you thelanguage, because you can voice the language? Can you be the language?Similarly. I lead you to consciousness. You are in a position to watch

consciousness; therefore, you cannot be the consciousness. You must fullyemployyourfacultyofdiscriminationandinvestigate.

Beforewearecaughtupwiththisbody-mindsense.wearetheParabrahmanonly.Butthemomentthis“I-am-ness”appears,Weembracethisbody-mindasourselfand thenweare involvedwithall theconceptsandall theproblemsoftheworld.

Thatknowingness,thatrealization,hasnocolor.Foronewhohasrealizedallthis,thereisBrahman,thegodlystate,andtheonewhoknowsthisgodlystateistheParabrahmanstate.

V:ToonewhoknowstheBrahmanstate,doestheworldstillappear?

M:'Whenitisaqualitative"I-am-ness"state,theworldis.Oncethisstateistranscended, there is no world. In the "I-am-ness," in the consciousness, themanifestworldisthere.Inthe“No-I-am-ness”statethereisnoworld.

TheKnowerof this“I-am-ness”stateand theworld...within that“Knowerstate,”thereisnoworld.Butinthe“I-am-ness”statethereisaworld.

V : But the Knower then knows the world, the Parabrahman knows theworld?

M:[Pointingtohiscigarettelighter]Yousee,thatflameislike“I-am-ness.”Whenthe“I-am-ness”appears,theworldalsoappears.You,likeParabrahman,iswatching that. 'When there isno flame,youseenothing.When the flame isthere,“I-am-ness”hasappeared,thereforetheworldhasappeared.

V:SoinParabrahman,youcanknowboththeworldandno-world.

M : Everything depends on the appearance of that consciousness. If thatconsciousnessisthere,thenalsowitnessingoftheworldhappens.Ifthereisnoconsciousness,thenthereisnoworld.Whydoyouknowanythingrightnow?

V:BecauseIam.

M : Because of that “I-am-ness.” you know the world. A hundred yearsback,youdidnotknowanything.ThenyouweretheParabrahman,becausethe“I-am-ness”wasnotyetthere.

V:Can'tIstillbetheParabrahmannow?

M:Thisisnojoke,butyoucanbecomeParabrahmanrightnow.Only,itisnotacommoditythatyoucanacquire.

You, a hundred years ago. were the Parabrahman. Give me all theinformationaboutthatstateofahundredyearsback.Focusyourattentiononlyon that consciousness “I am.”Don't be led astrayby all the so-called spiritualdisciplinesandrigmaroles.

V :Does this consciousnesswithin the body have anything to dowith theuniversalconsciousness?

M:Oneistheexpressionoftheother.Ifthepulsewerenotthere,couldthatwhichisconsideredtheindividualbodydoanythingintheworld?Thelifeforce,thebreath,istheexpressionofthemindandtheconsciousness.Whenyoutalkofone,theothershavetobethere.Allthethreearemadeonecomplex.Withoutone, the others can't work. Now, the difficulty arises because what thisconsciousness is is atonce theuniversal consciousness - that is, the feelingofPresence,“IamPresence”-not:Iampresentoryouarepresentorheispresent.Butunfortunately,theidentificationiswiththebodyandIamnottheWholebuta divisible part of theWhole. And therefore one thinks in terms of acquiringsomething.Butwhenonesees thesituationas it really is, thatno individual isinvolved,thatwhatispresentisPresenceasawholeandmerelytheexpressionoftheAbsolute,thenthemomentthisisperceivedthereisliberation.Liberationisnothingelsethanseeingthiswithfullconviction.

V:Whatistherelationshipbetweenconsciousnessandthebody?

M:Theconsciousness, inorder tomanifest itself,musthavea form.Andthe form is the body, and the body is made up of the essence of the fiveelements,constitutingthesustenancefortheconsciousness.Withoutsustenanceintheformofthebody,whicheverbodyitmaybe-thatofaworm,aninsectora human being - consciousness could not sustain itself; it is the food essencewhichsustainsconsciousness.

V : If the various forms of manifestation are merely the expression ofuniversal consciousness, why is there the feeling of individuality in differentforms?Whyshouldeachformconsideritselfaseparateone?

M : As soon as that which is the unicity manifests itself, the verymanifestationsignifiesduality.Manifestationmeanstherehastobeasubjectandan object. Manifestation in space-time means divisibility. And it is the verynatureofconsciousnessthatassoonasitmanifestsitself,therearetheopposites– evil/good, large/small. etc. From themoment themanifestation takes place,duality is its very nature and thismust express itself.As soon as there is thismanifestation,thereisthequestionofduality,eveninthefiveelements:theair,

fire and water are themselves opposites. So the manifestation itself meansduality.

If I say that I am ill, what does it mean really? For the sake ofcommunication,oneuses theword"I."Butstrictlyspeaking,Ihavenothingtodowiththeform.Theillnessisonthatbecauseofwhichtheformismadeandisfeltintheconsciousness.AndIamreallyneithertheformnortheconsciousness,whichmanifestsitselfintheform.Butforthesakeofcommunication.onesays“Iamill.”“Iamworse,”“Ihavegrownweak”or“Ihavegrownstronger,”butthat is merely an expression of the change in the essence of the form. Butgrowingweakerorstronger,undergoingillnessorotherwise,hasnothingtodowithassuch.

There are innumerable languages, not only among human beings but alsoamong forms of being other than the human being. But that on which thelanguage isbased - that is, themindand theconsciousness -doesnotchange.The conditioning which has taken place on that consciousness right from thebeginning is thebasisof the languageof thatparticular form.Therefore, thereareinnumerableformsandanynumberoflanguages.

Nowthereisaverysubtlepointandanalogyregardingtheordinarylanguagewhichweknowand thespiritual languagewhichwedonotyetknow.That towhichonehasbeenconditionedrightfromthebeginning,thatlanguagedoesnotneedanyspecialeffortforanyonetolearn.Heorshegetsusedtoitfromearlychildhood,fromtheearliestconditioning.How?Throughconstantandconsistentassociation.Similarly,ifonehasthisconstantandconsistentassociationwiththejnanis,thenthatlanguagewhichthejnanispeaksandwhichwouldnormallynotbe understood by people, will gradually be remembered and understood andbecomenatural.

Sincewhendoesonecometoknowtheexperienceofsuffering?Onlysinceformwascreatedoutof the fiveelements and therewasconsciousness in thatform. But what was the situation before the form was created and theconsciousness came into it? One was unmanifest. One had no knowledge ofone'sexistence;therewasnoquestionofanyexperience,andthereforetherewasastatewhichwasbeyond thegrossconceptofhappinessorunhappiness.Thatwastheunicitywhentherewasnotevenanyquestionofhavingexperience.

IntheunmanifestAbsolute.thereisnoconsciousnessatall-consciousnessof existence. So only when there is this universal consciousness manifestingitselfinthevariousforms,andtheseformspossessthelifeforceandaresubject

to the three gunas, can each form act through the life force according to thecombination of these gunas. Each form acts according to its own nature. It isonly when identification takes place, and I begin to think that I am acting,although it is only the combination of the three gunas that acts, that I assumequiteunnecessarilytheresponsibilitiesandconsequencesofthoseactions.whichproperly are notmine at all. The actionswould have taken place in any case,dependingonthethreegunas(1)andthelifeforce.

It isamazing,almostsilly, thatanyonecould thinkthatheorshe isacting.Thisiswhathappens:Thewakingstate,beforetheothergunasstart,isfromthesattva-guna;thatis,totalharmony.Inthatsplitsecondwhenonewakesup,thereistotallove,totalkindness.Thereisnoquestionofselfis(h)-ness.Sothewakingstateisofthequalityofthesubsequently,therearethephysicalactivitiescausedby necessities, nature and duties: these derive from the rajas-guna. All theseactivities take place by themselves, but one starts saying "I am doing this,"identifying and taking on the responsibilities - that is the work of the tamas-guna.

(1)Thetreegunas-sattva(purity,clarity,harmony),rajas(passion,energy,activity) and tamas (inertia, resistance, darkness) - are the basic attributes orqualities that underlie and operate the world process, according to Hinduteachings.

8.WH0KNOWS“THATIAM”?

MAHARAJ:Takethecaseofsomeonewhosays,Idon'tlikewhatMaharajissaying,sohegetsupandwalksout.Whathashappened?Hehasreactedtothemeaningofaparticularwordorsetofwordswhichhascomefromthemind.Sothemindsays:Idon'tlikewhatisbeingsaidandthatthoughtisconvertedintowords.Andagainthemindtakesthemeaningofthesewords-thatIdon'tlikethis-andtheactiontakesplaceofhiswalkingout.Ifsimilarly,asthebasisofallthought,oneacceptssomedefiniteprinciple,thenallone'sfutureactionswillbebasedon it.This firmbase is the result of accepting themeaningof thewordwhich has come from a particular thought. My guru told me that I amParabrahman and nothing else. I have accepted thatwith great conviction andthereforewhateverotherthingsappearseemtomepalpablyfalse.AtonestageforexampleIwasextremelystrong;fifteenortwentyyearslaterIhadtouseastick.Andlateron,eventhestickbecomesuseless.Soall thesechangesinthebodyarenotmine.Whateverdiseasehascome,itreferstotheareaofbodyonly.

Allthoughtsthatcomewillbebasedonthefirmprimarythought“IamtheParabrahman.”Unlessoneadherestothisfundamentalprinciple-andmostofusdon't-weacceptthatwearethebodyandcontinueassuchtillourdeaths.Butiftheguru'swordsareacceptedwithtotalconviction,ourentiredestiny,ourentirelife,willbetransformed.

Iamsplittingoffwhatyouareinyourselffromwhateverthoughtsthatoccurtoyou.Istatedyouarenotthethoughtsbutthatifyouembracethethoughtsasyourselfyouactuallybecomethethoughts.SoIdriveawedgebetweenyouandthose thoughts, between you and your assimilation of any thoughts or words.EarlierIhadsaidthatyoubecomethesumtotalofallthethoughtsandwhatevermeaningsyouattachtothem.Youarethevictimofthethoughts,ofthemeaningof thewords,which you entertain as "yours." I gave you the example of thatfellowwhohadacceptedthemeaningofthewords“Ihavebeenoffended,”hadwhollyswallowedtheconceptandsomadeithisown.

Indrivingthatwedge,Isay“Youareapartfromthoughtorthemeaningofthewords.”What are sattva-guna, rajas-guna. and tamas-guna? Sattva-guna isdoing all the tricks, and you say “I am doing this,” you accept the actions ofsattva-guna, rajas-guna and tamas-guna as your own!You are not that either.Thereistheexampleofthemarriedwomanwhohadbeeninthefamilywayforthreemonths,andsomebodymadeaforecastthatthefetusisthatofaverygreatperson,ofthestandingofLordBhagavanSriKrishna.Thechildtobebornwillbe as great or even superior to LordKrishna. That concept or that thought isgiven. So this lady accepts the thought in toto; embracing the thought, itsmeaning,asherself,thechildmustbebornasgreatasKrishna.

The sickness of which I am accused, of which my body is accused, isactuallyagreatblessing,becauseitisnotwhatIam.Butitisalsolikethatladyinthefamilyway.Iamalsointhesamestate.Thatlady,becauseoftheconceptgiven to her, would indeed believe that her child is as great as Krishna.Similarly,myguruhasgivenmethisconceptionthatIamtheParabrahman.Sothatisalwaysthere.Sothenwhatistheimpactofthissickness?Thesicknessisgoing to deliver me into the Parabrahman state, because I have acceptedParabrahmanasmyrealnature.IamtheParabrahmanonly!Sothissicknessishelping the delivery into the Parabrahman. Therefore, the culmination of thesicknessisParabrahman.

You are a slave to the meaning of words, to the meaning of the mind.Therefore,youarethevictimofthemind.

Whoacceptsthisconviction?Itisnotthemind.Thedeepsenseinyouthat“youare”mustaccept thatyouare theParabrahman,not themind.Don'tbeaslave to themeaningwhich themind imposesonyou.Theculminationof thatsicknessinmeisParabrahmanonly,butforothershavingthissicknesstherewillbe panic that they are going to die. This is the normal concept of ordinarypeople.ButforonewhoisfirmlyconvincedthatheistheParabrahman-Iwouldalmost say, whatever the “self” is, that the self is convinced that it isParabrahman - then the sickness is a blessing, because the sickness helps todeliveroneintoParabrahman.

Whohastheknowledge“Iam”?Somebodyinyouknowstheknowledge“Iam.”Whoisit?Itisveryobviousthatyouknowyouare,butwhatorwhoisitthatknowsyouare?

VISITOR:Iaskedthatquestion,too.WhoknowsIam?

M:AmItoreplythatyouaresittinghere?Youknowyouaresittinghere.

Andyou are askingme!Youmust understandwhy I amasking this question.Unashamedly,youareaskingmetoreplytoyourquestion.

INTERPRETER:Yousee.thepointiswehavetogotoourverycore;thewholeideaisnottoreplysuperficially.Sowhatisthepointinaskingotherstoreplytoyourquestion?

V:Becauseitsoundedlikearhetoricalquestion.

I : We are to be prior to “I-am-ness.” Then Maharaj want us to studyourselvesandfindoutwhateveritis.Theremaynotbeaverbalreply.Atleastwemusttrytounderstandwhatheisdrivingat.

V:Iunderstandthat.

SECONDVISITOR:Isitpureawarenessthatknows“Iam"?

M:Yes,that'sright.Whocanunderstandthatillusorystate?“I-am-ness”isillusoryonly.It isnotaperfectstate, it is illusion.Whoknowsthe illusion?Anon-illusorystateonlycanknow the illusorystate.Youarenotwrong inyourreply, but why did you say "pure" awareness?What is the necessity of yoursaying“pure”?

V:Therewasnonecessity.

M:"Awareness"meanspure.Sinceawarenessknows“Iam.”itisother,itismorethan“Iam.”Thatisthehighest;thereisnogradationinawareness.IntheAbsolute, the Parabrahman state, there is no question of impure awareness orpureawareness.

V:Isthereloveinpureawareness?

M:No.Whatdoyoumeanby"love"?Whatisyourexperience.yourideaoflove?

V:Somethingmuchhigherthanthelovethat themindandthebodyhave.Somethingthatisformless.

M : Up to the state of beingness, "I-am-ness," consciousness, there is thestateoflove.Thatloveisthelovetobe.This"lovetobe"isnottheperfectstatebutwhentranscended,itistheperfectstate.Noimperfections!

V:Yousay"uptothepointofbeingness,"isthatwhenyouarestill intheAbsolute?

I:Theno-beingstateistheAbsolute,thatiswhatyoucallpureawareness.

Beingnessisthefeeling"Iam."That“Iam”itselfislovetobe.Iwouldliketobe.Iwouldlovetoperpetuatemyself.

V:Andwhereislove?

M : That is love. Consciousness itself is love. With consciousness, youwouldlovetobe.

V:Andinpureawareness?

M:Thereisno"I-am-ness."thereisnoconsciousness.

V:Andnolove.

M:Inlovetobeyouwanttohavesomething,right?Somedesireisthere,thelovetocontinuetobe.IntheParabrahman,thereisnolovetobe,becauseitisaperfectstate.

V:Whatisthepurpose,iftheAbsoluteisupthere?WhatisthepurposeoftheAbsolutecomingtobirthinaform?

M:Whydoyouasksuchanelementaryquestion?Iwillgivesomeexample.Youwanttogotoaparticularplace,tovisit.Youarethatneed.Becauseofthatneed,you love togo.Love is themotive force; itmovesyou.Similarly,whenyouarebeingness,thebeingnesswantstocontinue.Itwantstocontinueintimeand space.That is the stateof love tobe.So love is thereonly in the stateofbeingness.

Intheperfectstate,thatstatedoesnotwanttobecomesomethingotherthanwhat it is. Nor does it want to be. Therefore, that beingness is not there, thefeelingof“I-am-ness”isnotpresent,intheperfectstate.Everythingiscomplete.

Whenyourneedisfulfilled,thereisnomoreneed,nomorelack.Thereisnomoremovement.Loveisalsodissolvedatthatmoment.Supposeyouwanttogotoaplace,somefar-awaystation.Yourushtothestationtocatchthetrain.Whyareyourushing?Becauseyouwishtoreachyourdestination.Onceyoureachit,you don't rush anymore. You stay put in quietude. You forget themovementalso: there is no more rushing. Again. I am not addressing an individual orpersonality. I am addressing that final outcome of the five-elemental foodessence, "I-am-ness." You are not the personality or the individual. Thequintessence of this food, which in turn is the outcome of the five-elementalplay,isthetaste"Iam.""Iam"isnotapersonalitynoranindividual.

Forexampleyouwanttoemployaservant.Andthereisaveryweakfellowwhom you want to convert into a good servant. He is very weak and cannot

perform.Soyoubringhimgoodfood,goodnourishment,andthenhebecomesstronger and steady.Then, finally, is it not the food that hasmade him into agoodservant?Thegoodqualityofthefoodthatyougavehimisconvertedintoservice for you.Similarly,what aremedicines? Is notmedicine also a typeoffood? An antidote to a deficiency of a particular food in your body isadministeredintheformofmedicine.Therefore,whoisservingthatservant?Isitnotthefoodessence?Andwithrespecttoyourownbody,whoisservingyou?Isitnotthefoodessencethatisagoodservanttoyou?

Doesallthisknowledgethatisexposedhereconfuseyou?Normally,whatishappeningisthatpeopleassumethemselvestobehumanforms,andtheytrytounderstand everything through the filter of that human form; they translatewhatever I say into the mode of thinking of a human being, a personalizedhumanbeing.Thatisthetrouble.Iamaddressingthatprinciple,thattouchof"Iam,"thatconsciousness,whichistheproductofthefoodessencebody.

[Toaparticularvisitor]Youarenotyetveryclear?

V:I thoughtIwasfairlyclear;youcan'treallyjudgemefromwhatIsay.WhatIsaymightbeliemyunderstanding.

M:Youareofthefirmconvictionthatyouunderstood?

V:No.Therearecertainthingsthatoneunderstandsatcertainlevels,butfromthetotalitynothingwasunderstood.

M:Didyousaythehighestlevelorthetotality?

V:Totality.

M:Whatdidyoumeanby"totality"?

V:Whenoneremainsinthe“Iam,”thereisnoknowledge,nothought,nomovement.

M:Whenyouareonlybeing,aretherenothoughts?

V:No.

M:Theveryconsciousnessisthepotentialforthoughtactivity.

V : There is a potential for thought, but if it is not exercised there is nothought.

M:Whentheconsciousness is there, thoughtswillspontaneouslycomeortheymay not; you have no control over thatwhatsoever. It is exclusively the

businessoftheconsciousnesstohavethoughtsornothoughts.

V : But we were talking about the universal consciousness as having nothoughtsandnomentation.Thatbeingso,wherethenisthethought?Ifwearetoldtobeandtoremaininthe"Iam,"wherethenisthethought?

M:Leaveitfornowandstopthinking...

***

M:WhatIamtellingyou,youarenotinapositiontounderstand,andwhatyouaretellingme,Idon'tunderstand.Sowhatistheuseofmoretalk?

V:Well,itwasn'tmyintentiontoimplythatIknewanything;IfeltIknewafewthingsrelativity-wise,butnowIrealizethatIknownothingandthatisduetoMaharaj'sgrace.

M:Sinceyouaretalkingfromthestandpointthatyouunderstandnothing.stillyouareaskingquestions.SohowamItounderstandthem?

ThetypeandthequalityofquestionswhichemergesfromyouindicatesthatyouarenotunderstandingwhatIamdrivingat.Thewholeobjectofthedialogueis foryou tounderstandwhat I am saying and that I understandwhatyouareasking.Ifthisisnotthecase,thenwhatisthepurposeofadialogueatall?

Iamnotwell,Ishallbetalkingonlycrisplyandtothepoint.Nodigression.Many people have listened to my talks, have understood and have gone intoquietude.Ifpeoplecannotunderstandme.whatcanIdoaboutthat?ifmytalkscannotbeunderstood,itisnouseattendingthem.

ThismorningIaskedaquestion:“WhoknowsIam?”Andyouaskedmeacounterquestion:"WhatshouldIunderstandbythat?"Mayyoukeepquiet;don'taskanyfurtherquestionstoday.

***

M:Inthemorning,whenyouaskedthatquestion,Ithoughtyouweretryingtobeargumentative.

V:Iapologizeforyourfeelingthatway;myquestioninreturntoyourswasperhapsfacile;itwas,however,notmeanttobeargumentative.IfelttherewasananswertothatquestionthatIperhapsdidnotknow.ButintruthIdidknowtheanswerandIdounderstandwhatyouhavebeensaying.Yetat times,withthe knowledge that is being absorbed one feels that one does not reallyunderstandafterall,yettheknowledgeisabsorbed.Whoistheretoknow?And

thatisallIwantedtoconvey.

M:Ifeltasifyouaretryingtoattackorchallengemebyyourquestioning.Youshouldbequiet;whenthereisnoanswercomingoutofyou,youshouldnotaskmetoreply,forthatquestionwasmeantforyou,foryouropeningup.Don'taskquestionsforsometime.Don'taskanyquestionstochallengeme.

[Toanothervisitor]WereyouhereinIndiaearlier?

V:Thisismyfirsttime:threedaysinIndia.

M:Youarealreadyfullofspiritualwisdom,youknowalotinspirituality,andIaminnopositiontoaddressyou.Iamapygmybeforeyou.

Do you have questions? [To a particular visitor] What happened to yourquestion?

V:I trytounderstandthatlevelwherethereshouldbenomorequestions.WhyshouldIcomedowntothislevelandputquestionsinthisease?

M:Whathappenedtoyourquestion?

V : They are in the beginning. But in the ultimate state, there are noquestions.WhyshouldIcomedowntoalowleveltoaskquestions?

M:Whoinvitedyoutostepdownintoquestions?

I:Ifyoudon'twanttoaskquestions,whatisthepointofmeetinghim?

M:InthemorningIclearlytoldyou,Iamnotaddressingyouasaperson,asan individual. I am addressing you as the expression of the consciousness. Inthese dialogues, there is no question of I and you. This consciousness is theproduct of the food body essence and is talking to that expression of theconsciousness.You always assume thatwhatever occurs to you is knowledge,but it is reallyaconcept.Trueknowledge isbeyondconcept,prior toconcept.Theconceptless,wordless, speechless state isknowledge.The trouble is thataforeignconceptoccurstoyou.youlikeit,thenyougiveitatitle,yourememberthetitleandyoucallit"knowledge"andaresatisfiedwithit.Howcanyouspeakor develop any concept unless the primary concept "I am" is available? Thisprimaryconceptbegets further concepts; that is, all other conceptsoccur to it.WecallitGod,Ishvaraandsuchnames;andallthatwecall"knowledge."Thisprimary concept illuminates all those concepts which later become myknowledge. However, whatever concept occurs to you, including the primaryconcept“Iam,”isnottheeternalstate.

Thisprimaryconceptoccurredtoyou,thenyoucalleditBrahman,Ishvara.Becauseyoulikeit,becauseyouliketobe,yougiveitthesegloriousnamesasmentioned. But with all that, it is still only a concept.Why is it not eternal?Becauseitsveryfoundationisthisfoodbodyonly.Solongasthefoodbodyisavailableinproperbalanceandpropercondition,thatoranyotherconceptwillbesustained.

Nowwhereisyoursampleavailableinthis?ItisnottobefoundinyouastheAbsolute.Onlythesampleofthefoodessenceintheformofatouchof“I-am-ness,”isavailable.

I am telling you my story. And while I am narrating my story to you, itmeansthatyouaregettingtoknowyourownself.Ifyouunderstandmystory,you will also understand your own story. Abide in yourself. Actually LordKrishna expounded his story; but he gave it the glorious name of Brahmanvidya, the knowledge of Brahman. Can anything good or bad happen to theBrahmanvidya,knowledgeoftheSelf?Sincenothinggoodorbadcanhappentothat Brahman, that Parabrahman is known as nishkama, the desirelessParabrahman state.Theknowledgeof beingness, the knowledgeof the self, islike the utility of an unborn child; it has absolutely no use. Similarly, thisBrahmanvidyainfinalanalysisisofnouse.

Most of the so-called jnanis unjustifiably thought that they had theknowledge through certain concepts which they valued very much. Theyglorifiedtheconceptsbygivingthemvarioushigh-falutinnames.Andtheyhungontothoseparticularconceptsastheircreed,religion,orprofoundknowledge.Eventhisprimaryconcept,"I-am-ness,"isdishonest,justbecauseitisstillonlyaconcept.Finally,onehastotranscendthatalsoandbeinthenirvikalpastate,whichmeanstheconcept-freestate.Thenyouhavenoconceptatall,notevenof"I am." In that state one does not know that one is. This state is known asParabrahman: Brahman transcended. Brahman is manifest; Parabrahman isbeyondthat,priortothat:theAbsolute.DoyouunderstandwhatIamdrivingat?

Whateveryoucaughtinyourattention,thatattentionshouldeventuallyturnintono-attention.ThestatethatisfinallyleftoverisAwareness.Parabrahman.

I am addressing the consciousness. The instrument of consciousness forcomprehensionisattention.Anythingisabsorbedintheattentionandwhateveris really understood goes through that attention,which itself is then dissolvedintoandasconsciousness.Sowhatremains?Noconceptisleft.Thus,attentionalso turns intono-attention.With thearrivalofconsciousness, itoccurs toyou

thatyouare;simultaneously,“Iam”occurstoyouorinyourattention.Sowhenthe consciousness is not there, attention is also not there. Subsequent to thearrival of consciousness and attention, everything else crept in. Now let usassumethat throughyourattentionyouareable toembrace theentiremanifestuniverse. 'Whenyour consciousness isnot there.where is that attentionwhichembracedtheentireuniverse?Therefore, theis thatprinciplewherethereisnoquestionofaperson transcends this“I-am-ness”state. It is the“no-I-am-ness”state.Thejnanidismissestheconsciousness.Ajnanihasnoscopeatallforanypride,becausetherearenopropsleftforsupportinghispride.

Theabsolutestateispriortoconsciousness:itmeanstheunbornstate.SincetheParabrahmanistheunbornstate,priortoconsciousness,canithaveaniotaofknowledge?

Anunbornchilddoesnotknowofhisexistence.Similarly,theParabrahmanstatedoesnotknowitself,thatitis.MywordsareonlyrootedintheAbsolute.Youmustbeabletodivineanymeaningoutofthem.

The principle that understands relationships and tries to understand, stillexists in the realmofconsciousness; it is in the realmofattention.But that towhichitpointshasnoattentioninit.

V:Ifyouharnessyourattention.thereisonlysilence.

M:Uptotheprecipiceofconsciousness,intotheabysmaldepth.

V:Itislikedrillingaholeinthedesert,ifwatercomesyoudon'thavetodoanythinganymore.

M:WhateverIsaycannotbegraspedbyyourintelligence.Itisbeyondthescopeoftheintellect.

Everylivingbeing,everyperson.everyspecies,triestopreserveitself.Thatis thework of the very life force.But havewe any knowledge about that lifeforce?

This"I-am-ness."thetouchoftheconsciousness,willbesustainedsolongasthisfoodessencequalityisretained.Oncethatqualityisgone,theconsciousnesscannotbesustained.This is theproductof thefive-elementalplay. I repeat.solongasthatfive-elementalfoodquintessenceisavailable.theconsciousnesswillbe there. Once the quality is lost, the consciousness will also be lost. Is itpossibleforyoutopreservethequalityofthesefiveelementsperpetually?

When you take this organic food essence, moisture must be present. And

waterisboundtodryuponeday.Therefore,thefoodessenceisalsoboundtodryup, and so consciousness is time-bound: eventually itwill disappear.Howcan you retain that pride that I am like this? This "I am" business dependsentirelyonthefoodessence,Sohowcanyouretainitperpetually- thatIshallremain like thisonly?Toextractanyessence,water isverynecessary.and thewaterqualityisboundtodryup.

At thispoint. ifyouwant toaskanything,pleasegoahead. Ifyouare inapositiontodwellonthistheme,aboutyouridentity,pleasespeakup.

I: I toldMaharajyouknowaboutBhagavadGitaandsomanyscriptures.He says, all that is very interesting but you ought to remember what is theprimarysupport.Youmustbe,mustyounot?

V:Ididnotwanttoaskanyquestions.Theknowledgeofthescriptureshasnotbroughtaboutwhatwedesire.Forthat,graceandsatsangarevital,

M:Whatisthemeaningoftheword“truth”?Weunderstandwhatisunreal:thatwhich isnotgoing to last.Butwhat is themeaningof"real"?What is themeaningof truth? It iswhatever iseternal.Whateverweexperience, includingthebeingness,isunrealbecauseitisnotgoingtolast.Theseareallnon-eternal,andoneexperiencesonlynon-eternalitems.Theknowledge“Iam”isaprimaryconcept and is also non-eternal. The One, the Absolute, which is eternal andaware,whyshouldheworryaboutanybodyelse?Becauseinthatstate,whateverappearancetakesplaceisThatonly.Thereisnoother,sothequestionaboutanyinquiryaboutothersdoesnotevenarise.

Eternalmeans:Nowandforever.Whenthestateisnowandforever,whyshouldoneworryaboutanythingelse?Whateveriseternalisthetruth.Thatstatetranscends knowledge and ignorance, so there is no scope for knowledge andalsoignorance.Youmaycallitjnana,youmaygiveitafancytitlebutactuallyitisbeyondjnanaandajnana,knowledgeandignorance.

Itisamostfascinatingstate,radiant.Brilliant,glorious-youcangiveitallsortsoftitles.Itisliketheunbornchild,thechildofabarrenwoman.Thetruthislikethat.Theeternalislikethat.Theeternalmeans:theUnborn.

V:MaharajmayhaverealizedThat,buthowarewetorealizethatstate?

M:Whatdoyoumeanbyrealizingthatstate?Andwhatisthatstate?Thechildofabarrenwoman.

V:Imeantthatwhichiseternalandnow,asyouweresaying.

M:Yes,Isaidthataboutthatstate,brilliant,glorious,etc.,butitisliketheunbornchild.

9.CONSCIOUSNESSITSELFISTHE

SOURCEOFILLUSIONMAHARAJ : That state referred to as the unborn child. I have tried to

describeitasbrilliant,glorious,etc.butitisreallymind-boggling;youcan'ttrytouseyourmindorintelligencetounderstandit.Giveitup!Don'tcommunicateallthistoothers,butyouchaseit,youpursueitandbethat!Don'tbelazy!Howcananybodyputquestionsonthisthing,whichisbeingdiscussed?Itisnicetohearthoseparticularwordsandstatements,which"click”atthatmoment,givingmomentarysatisfaction.but this is somethingdifferent; this isgoing tochangeyou.Any experience or any satisfaction that you get ismomentary,meant forthattimeonly.Oncethattimeisgone,thesatisfactionisgoneandeverythingisover.

VISITOR:Thenwhatispermanentandhowtoachievethepermanent?

M:Understandwhateveristime-boundandeliminatealltime-boundstages.Theonewhorecognizesallthesetime-boundstages,thatoneisbeyondtime,isprior to time. Stay put there. You can understand all these time-bound stagesonlyfromapedestalwhichisnottime-bound.Bethere!

V:Howtoreachit?

M:Followitup;therearenofurtherwordsthatcanbeappliedtoexplainitfurther.

V:Bywhatmeans,rituals,orprocedurescanitbeattained?

M : IS it not beyond effort. beyond understanding? When you are theinstrumentofunderstanding,allsourcesoftheintellectarekeptaside.Whateverremains is that state. Presently,we are fully in the grasp of this beingness orconsciousness. Consciousness is the product of this food essence body.Whatever occurs to this beingness is “knowledge,” maybe even profound

knowledge,andweclingtothat.Butthatisnotthetrueknowledge.Beingnessisthe product of the food essence, it cannot be eternal knowledge because it istime-bound. Do you understand that? Don't try to give thought afterunderstanding a little bit of this.Try to absorb and imbibe this fullyuntil youstabilizeinyourtrueSelf.

V:Ihavenotunderstoodmyselffully,sothequestionofgivingitupsimplycannotarise.

M:That“I-am-ness” isagain theproductof this foodbody.Where is thequestionofknowingthatalso?

Whatyoucall“yourself,”or“you,”istheproductofthisfoodessencebody.Howcan thatbeingnessunderstand“you” theTruth,you theAbsolute?Totheignorant one can give a talk depending heavily on spiritual jargon about theBrahman, about this and that - all the stories. However, when it comes toyourselfyoumustreallyunderstandthetrueSelf.

"Youarealive”isaconceptanditisfalse.Inthisbodythereistheprinciplewhichweknowas“yourself.”Thatprinciplehasno form,butyouunderstandthat as the knowledge “I am.” We also call it the consciousness, the “I”-consciousness or the beingness.Now the various names are the names of thisconsciousness only: The consciousness gives rise to the world. The world iswithinthatconsciousness.Trytounderstandthat.

This is the onlyway to knowledge of theSelf; through this consciousnessyoucanknowyourself,whatyouare.Allothertypesofknowledgeintheworldarewaystoenableyoutoearnalivelihood,togetmoneyandliveintheworld.Otherwise, that isnotknowledgeatall.Knowledgeof theSelf is theonlyrealknowledge.

In the universal consciousness there are no individuals.We are looking atdifferent forms, we give them names like man, God, donkey, and such. Butultimatelythereisthisconsciousnessonly,theuniversalconsciousness.Andweshouldnot identifyourselvesasaseparateentity,aseparatebody.Weare thatknowledge;ithasnonameorform.Thatistheessenceofmyteaching.

Twocollegestudentshadcomehere.Itoldthem:Forgetspirituality,followyour normal inclinations. tendencies, do your normal duties. just give upspirituality.WhydidItalktothemlikethis?Igotinvolvedinspirituality,inthebusiness of spirituality; and finally I lost that love of the self also. I have nomorelovefortheself.Thatisthereason.

Achief anchor for anybody is the love for the self, consciousness, the “I-love”state,themainbonding.Istartedspiritualityinthenameofself-knowingonly,becauseIlovedmyself,Ilovedtobe.AndIwantedtoknowwhatisGod.Andtoknowthatmeansspirituality.SointhisbargainIlostthat;Iamnolongerfascinated by that love to be. Because that is the main bondage, the maincondition,the“I-love.”Solongasthevitalbreathoperates,solongasthepulsewill be beating, until then there is this love to be, until then there is theconsciousness.Whenthevitalbreathquitsthebody,thepulsewillstopand“I-am-ness”isnomore.Sincemylovetobeisnowcompletelyfinished,exhausted,Ihavenomorefascinationforthatstateof“I-love”.Therefore,Ihavenomoreloveforanybody.WenormallyinvolveourselvesinlovingsomebodyelsefromthemainstandpointthatIlovetobe.

I call this, our skull, an earthen pot. So long as this earthen pot is notproperly baked, you have to collect knowledge from elsewhere. When it isproperlybakedanditsoundswell,thenyouwillbeinapositiontounderstandofwhatIamtalking.Butwhatwillhappenafteryoulistentomytalks?Theshellwillburst;itwillcrack.

Ritually,whilecrematingthebody,thesonhastolightthefire;thenwewilltakeanearthenpot,fullofwater,andputthatinasmallholewehavemade;andthenhewillmoveroundthatfuneralpyreina"wrong"direction.Normally,thedirectionisbykeepingtheobjecttotheright,movingclockwise[thatis,aroundasacredobjector location,Editor]buthere theobject iskept to the left,sohewillbemovingcounter-clockwise.Andaftersomethreeperambulations,hewillthrowthemudpotattheback,notinfront,andhewillgoonchanting.

Solikethat,whenyoucomehere,youwillbecrematingyourself.Whateveridentity you have, whatever idea you have about your own self, will becremated.Wouldyou like this typeofknowledge,which I amexposinghere?Thislovetobe,thisconsciousness,unsolicited,spontaneously,ithascome-fornoreason.Andsincethen,itoccupiesitselfwithallactivities.Alltheseworldlyactivitiesareonlydue to that, self-love. love tobe.Butself-love isnot real. Itcannotbeeternal;itisapassingphase.Allthisknowledge,infinalanalysis,isofno use. Since youwill liquidate that very consciousness, finallywhatever youhaveheardhereisofnouse.Becauseonlywithintherealmofconsciousnessisknowledge innocent.Buthavingheardwhatever Ihavesaid, ifyouretain it inyourmemoryandbecauseofyourassociationwith thatknowledge, somenewknowledgealsowillsproutinyou.Allthisisofnousereally.Butithasoneuse:youwillbeabletoparadeyourknowledgebeforetheignorantmasses,andyou

haveachancetobecomeaguru.

Withwhateverknowledgeyouoriginallyhadplus theknowledgeyouhaveheard, and the knowledge which has sprouted in you, when you finallyunderstandandrealizeallthat,youdefinitelywillcometotheconclusionthatitisallunreal,ofnouse.Nevertheless,havingrealizedthat,youwillhaveacertainstatureinspiritualityandpeoplewillbeflockingtoyou,listentowhatyousay.Atthatstage,whateveroccurstoyou,youcanjustblurtitout.Becausefortheignorantmassesthatwillbeprofoundknowledge.Butinthisbargain,whatwillhappenisthatyouwillbeelevatedtoaveryhighstature.asaguru.Sobewareofthat.

Themain capital. the only primary capital that anybody has, is only this:deepsleep,wakingstateandthat little touchof"I-am-ness,"nothingelse.Anyquestionshere?

V:Howdoesonelinkupwithconsciousness?

M:Howareyoulinkedwithsleep?

V:Thatisanaturalstate.

M:Thisisalsonatural.Youarelinkedwithconsciousnessasanaturalstate.

V:Howdoyourealizeit?Ihavetriedtobecalmandlistentomyselfbutitisinnowaymynaturalstate.

M:Rightnowthebodyisreal,theworldisrealforyou.Andyouhavenowthewakingstate,deepsleepandtheknowledge“Iam.”Howlongisthisgoingtoremaintrueorrealtoyou?'Withoutthiswakingstate,deepsleepandyouarenotthere,northeworld,northebody.Howlongwereyouassociatedwiththesethreestates?Rightnowyouarefullyassociatedwiththem.

V:Lookingatmyself,allmylifehasbeenassociatedwiththosestates.

M:Areyousure?Whatdoyoumeanby“mywholelife”?“Life”meansacertain life span. from one day to a hundred years.After a hundred years, nomoreassociationofthis.

V:WhatIdifficultistobecomedetachedfrommyselfandseemyselfasanillusion.

M:Thatisbecauseyouhaveidentifiedyourselfwiththisbody."Iamwiththebody."Thatiswhyitissodifficult.Haveyouanyotheridentitybutforthebody?

V:Iamtryinghardtodetachmyself.

M:Youmust.ButyourtruenatureCannotbeclaspedorgrasped.Whateveryoucatchholdofcannotbereal.

V:Howdoyougettothetruenature?

M:Onceyourejectwhatyouarenot,whateverfinallyremains,theleftover.isyourself-yourtruenature.

Presently,Whateveryouknowis“Iam.”This“Iam”is theproductof thefiveelements.Outoftheelementscomesthefoodbodyandbecauseofthefoodbody,that“I-am-ness”issustained.Andyouarealsonotthat"Iam.""Iam"isthetaste,orthefragrance,ofthisfoodbody.Theultimatehasnofragrance.notaste.notouchof"I-am-ness."

V:Butdon'tweneedthemindtoturnusintoaninnerdirectionfirst?

M:Yes.butbeforeyoustartthinkingofturningyourmindinward,holdontoyourselfwhateveryouare.Youknowyouare,justbethere.

***

M:Whenyoudidnothave thebody.whateveryoumighthavedone,canyourecollectanything?

V:No.

SECGNDVISITOR:Thescripturessaythatwehaveourkarmaandoursins,andthatiswhywearehere.

M : That is for the ignorant masses. One who has realized the self-knowledge“Iam.”forhimthesestoriesareofnouse.

V:Isallthistheconceptofprarabdha?

M:Youaretalkingofdestiny.What is thedestinyof this?Destinyis likethelighterandthefuelcontainedinit.

The five-elemental juice is the prarabdha, the destiny.Whatever it is thatsustainstheconsciousness,thatisthedestiny.Ifyouthinkyouareinterestedinspirituality. I am dissuading you. If you follow any other vocation exceptspirituality, you have some hope that you will succeed sometime. But if youenter spirituality, all your hopeswill ultimately be shattered.Youwill be leftwith no hopes nor expectations. So I again advise you, don't jump into thisspiritualthing.Ifyoudothat,youwillbelickingwithoutatongue;youwillbe

leftwith nothing.Youmight even invite your owndeath; deathwill be there,deathwillmeetyou,youwillbeshiveringinyourshoes.

Who is that recipient, intimate relation, who is going to receive all thesufferings?Itisonlythatentitywiththreeaspects-wakingstate,deepsleepandtheknowingness-thatissufferingorenjoying.Whatelsehaveyou?justashairgrowsoutofyourhead,soallthementalaspectsorphenomenagrowoutofyourconsciousness.

V : For the past ten years I have been reading and studying RamanaMaharshiandalsoMauriceFrydrnan.Ihavebeentalkingtohim;nowIhaveaproblemas towhich typeof sadhana topursue.And the feelingof fulfillment,clarity,hasbeeneludingme.IaminastateofindecisiontochoosefromamongRamanaMaharshi,MauriceFrydmanandMaharaj.

M:Iadviseyoutogiveupspiritualityandfollowyourvocation.Whatisthesumtotalofthebodyofwork,theconclusionofthethoughts,ofthethreemenyouhavereferredto?

V:Onehastogainconfidenceandmakeadecisionandactaccordingtothetruth,whichIamobviouslyunabletodobecauseofmylackofconfidence.

M:Togrow in self-confidence,holdon toyourprimarycapital that “youare.”“Youare”means:wakingstate,deepsleepand the touchof“I-am-ness.”Thatisyourprimarycapital.bywhichyouknowthatyouare.Holdontothat,abide therein, worship that as your only guru. In the absence of this triad -wakingstate,deepsleepand“I-am-ness”-whatareyou?Whathaveyou?

V:Conflictofindecision.

M:Intheabsenceofthewakingstate,deepsleepand“I-am-ness,”haveyouanything?

V:Ithinkthatisall.Allthethreewehave.

M:Themeaningof this triad is“you,”“youare,”yourconsciousness, thestate“Ilovetobe.”[Tothisparticularvisitor]Pleasecontinue.

V:IwantMaharaj'sblessing,andhopethatIcangotoRamanashramforsometime.Thereare twothings thatare tryingtokeepmeback- in thesensethatImustdothis,mustdothat...myrelativesandfriendsmightfeelbadaboutme,becauseIhavebeenunstableforthelastfifteenyears,andthisyearagainMaharajsaysthatallhopes.allplans,allexpectationswillbeshattered.Sothiswillbeonemoreshattering.Butallthesame,Iwant...lefttheshatteringhappen

andletmebepeaceableinRamanashram.IwantMaharaj'ssupporttomoveon.

M:Youaregoingtostaytherepermanentlyoryouaregoingtoretraceyoursteps?

V : That I don't know, I want to go all the same... one, two, three. fourmonths...aslongaspossible.

M:Eventually,youwill find shelter andpeace innoother ashramexceptyourveryown.Thatvisranti-itmeans:ultimaterelaxation-finalabidance,willbeavailableonlyinyourashramandnowhereelse.Theroadisinwardintoyourashram.

V:Therealashramwithin,Ihaveyettodiscover.

M:Thereal,profoundmeaningofashramisthefirmconvictionthatIam.That is the inner abode.Where dowe stay?We stay in the society of “I-am-ness”andinthehouseof“I-am-ness”only.

V:Whywouldtheworldbecreatedasanillusion?Itseemsrealtousbutitisnot.

M:Nobodycreated it.Spontaneously ithascomeabout.Prior toknowingthisknowingness,“I-am-ness,”whereistheillusion?Priortotheconsciousness,wherewas the illusion?Theprimary illusion isonly thisknowingness“Iam.”Prior to that there was no illusion. This very consciousness is the source ofillusion. This illusion or consciousness or “I-am-ness” does not remain assomething eternal. It is liberated; this non-eternal consciousness is liberated.When the knowingness is transformed into non-knowingness, that is theliberation.

V:Ourillusioninourpresentconsciousness...

M:Thepresentconsciousnessitselfisillusion.

V:Thatisright.Ourillusionofthepresentconsciousnessistime,isitnot?

M: Take the example of the dreamworld.You have the feeling that youwokeup.Actuallyyouareindeepsleep,onthebed.Youhavetheillusionthatyouwokeup,andoutof this illusion thedreamworld isborn.Similarly,withthisillusion.Althoughnotinthewakingstate,theapparentfeelingthatIwokeup,thatitselfcreatesadreamworld.

V:Howdoyouwakeupthen,outofthisdreamWorld?

M:Youhavetogointoquietude,youhavetobestill.

V:Whatdoyoulookforwhenyouarestill?

M:Youmustlookatyourself.Youmeettheconsciousness.Consciousnessmustlookattheconsciousness."I-am-ness"mustlookatthe"I-am-ness."

V:Wheredoyoulook?Isitinyou,behindyou?

M:Itisneitherlookingbackward,forward,orupsidedown.Justbeasyouare.Justbe!Donothing.AlthoughIamnotveryknowledgeablespiritually.Iamposing very relevant questions. You assume that you are knowledgeablespiritually,butyouarenotabletoaskveryrelevantquestions.

Anyoneelsewhowantstotalk?Ifanythingoccurstoyou,pleasespeak;butdon't justspeakaboutirrelevantthings.Ifyouareinclinedtowardsocialwork,byallmeansfollowthatinclination.

V:ButasMaharajhas said, that if you follow thepathof spirituality,allthatyouplan-socialwork,goodworksorwhateveritis-outward-going,theywill all be shattered. But I am asking, can the inward journey and outwardexpressionbedoneharmoniously?

M:Themindflowisalwaysexternal,neverinternal.Intheinwardjourneyof self-discovery, that externalmind flow comes to a complete halt. Sowhenyouaregoinginwardintoyourself,youwillnothavethementalinclinationstoflowoutward.likedoingsocialwork.Thatisanaturalcorollary.Itispossibletodoboththingssimultaneouslyinsomefashion,butwhenyouaretrulyseriouslygoing inward themind flow stops altogether: there will be nomore outgoingmovement. Have you understood? So whether you want to be preserved orperish,youmuststicktoyourdetermination.

V:Ipickedupfromyesterdaysconversationyouradvicethatwemustgiveupourself-love.Isthatcorrect?

M:Someofusmisunderstand.Iknewtheywould.Yousee.theself-loveistheonethingthatis;Icallitconsciousness,thesenseofexistence,thesensethatIam.Andbecausethat is,everythingis.Ifonewerenotconscious,onewouldnot see the world. So with this love for this beingness, one wants thatconsciousness,existence,tocontinue.Sotheloveforthis“I-am-ness”istheonethingwhichhastobethere.Butdon'tidentifythatlovewiththebodythatyouthinkyouare.Thatistheonethingthatexists.Nottheself-love,thatistheloveforthisbeingness,thatwhichgivesonethesenseofbeing,existing,Iam.That

lovemustbethere,butdon't...

V:Nottheloveforthebody.

M:No,butthat“I-am-ness”don'tletitidentifyitselfwiththebody;thatisnothing.

What is thisbody?Thebody isnothingbutgood food, and theessenceofthatgoodfoodisthe"Iam,"andthisbodyisthesustenanceforthisthis“I-am-ness”consciousness. If thebodyweren't there, theconsciousnesswouldnotbethere.So thisconsciousnessneeds thebody,but it isnot thebody.That is thefundamentalunderstanding.Itisanecessity.

Keeponethingveryclearlyinmind:youarenotGod.youarenot[thebodywhich is] going to die.And, if peoplewant toworship - and onemust - oneshouldnotworshipanythingthatisforeign,asGod.WorshipasGodthatwhichcamewith you; towit, this life force (the vital breath) and this consciousnesstogether.ThatistheGodanyonecanknow;anyotherGodisalientoyou.Thenyou worship the power which gives one sentience - the feeling, the sense ofexisting.Thebodyismerelythesustenanceforthislifeforce.SeethislifeforcecumconsciousnessasthesupremeGod.

V:Godiswithinyou.

M : God is within you, but I do not mean “within” literally. That whichexists inandof itself isGod.Consciousnessand the life force together, that isGod.Andthatisonewiththebody,becausethebodyisthesustenanceforthisconsciousnessand life force together;youcan'tdivide them.And thenwhenaperson iscalleddead, this iswhathappens : the life forcewithinhasgoneoutandmergedwiththeairoutside.Thatisallthathashappened.

Whatdoesoneacton?Oneactson the thought,which isproducedby themind.Andwhat ismind?Mind is theworkingprincipleof this life force.Thelife forcemerely goes on.The consciousness and the life forcemerelywatch.Theactiontakesplacethroughthemind.Mindgivesrisetothought,thethoughtisinterpreted,andthentheactiontakesplace.

V:Butthemindcreatesdesires;andweshouldbecarefulofthose,right?

M:Youcannotcontrolthem.Allyoucandoistopurifythislifeforce,andthereafterwhateverisproducedbythelifeforcearethethoughtsandthedesires.Theymaybebetterdesires.So theonly thingonecando is topurify this lifeforce.

Allouractions.thewaytheactionsintheworldgoon,isonaccountofthemind. The mind creates the problems. Then the problems are converted intowordsandthewordsproducetheactions.

God's name is repeated in the mantra. The mantra refers to a particularthought andwhen that name is repeated constantly, the life force assumes thequalitiesof thatonwhich themeditation takesplace.So thereby the life forcegetspurifiedandbecomesthatonwhichthemeditationtakesplace.

V:Soinordertopurifythelifeforceandtheconsciousness, ismeditationnecessary?

M:Meditationandrepeatingthenamearebothnecessarybutonlyfor thelimitedpurposeofpurifyingthelifeforce.Irepeat,thatisnojnana.Butforthispurification,thisisthemeans:andithastobedone.

Whatever knowledge you gain refers only to that consciousness which isyourbirthright andwithwhich anyone is born andwhichgivesone's senseofexistence.Knowledgeisbasedonthatconsciousness.ThatiswhyIwillnotnowletpeoplestayonforalongtime,becausethentheselfistakenastheirown.Itisbetterthattheylistenandthengo,andletthatknowledge,withwhichtheyhavebeenimbibed,workthroughthelifeforce.Thewordsarethelanguageofthelifeforce.Whateverwordsandactionstakeplace,at theiroriginliesthelifeforce.Soitisessentiallythatlifeforcewhichdoeseverythingintheworld.

Thus. the consciousness works through the life force; and the life forceworks through the mind and the word, which is the basis for all actions.Therefore,noindividualhasyetcomeintothepicture.Andwhenthislifeforcesettlesdownintothisconsciousness,andthereforenolongerworksthroughtheworld,itsettlesdownintowhatisgenerallyknownassamadhibecausethereisnoobjectivization.

Butif thelifeforceandconsciousnessarepresent, thentheworldexists.Ifthereisnolifeforceandconsciousness,theworlddoesnotexist.Theworldisacreationofonlythesetwo.

PeoplepraytoGod,butwhatisGod?Godisacreationofthisconsciousnessandlifeforce-someconcepttowhichpeoplepray.Therefore,praytothatwhichcreatestheconceptofGod.

V:Isthereanevolutioninman.astaughtinscience?

M:Yes,youcanaccept it as a concept.Butwhatyoucallman, ahumanbeing,what is that?Andwhat is it in thepresenceofwhich there is a human

being,andintheabsenceofwhichthereisnohumanbeing?Andwhat is it inthepresenceofwhich there is life andahumanbeingcan function, and in itsabsenceyouwillsaythemanisdead?

V:Consciousness.

M : Consciousness. the life force. In the absence of the life force,consciousnessisnotthere.

V:Isconsciousnessevolvingalso?

M : Consciousness is present throughout and manifests itself in variousforms.Thelight thatyouseeis itself thelightof theconsciousness.Whatis isconsciousnessandwhateveriscannotbeanythingotherthantheconsciousness.

V:Isthisanydifferenttodaythanthousandsofyearsago?

M : Give up this idea of individuality. andwhat is now has always beenthousandsandmillionsofyearsago.Eonsagoandnowwhatisstillis,butgiveuptheidentificationwithanindividual.This“whatis”willalwaysbethere.

Givegood attention towhat is being said, hangon to itwithout anyotherconcepts interfering. You used the word “science.” What do you reallyunderstandbythatterm?Astudyofwhat?

V:Lifeandmatterhaveregularpatterns.Therearerulesofcombinationsandlawsthatweseemtoliveunder;forexample,thelawsofphysicsthatgovernmovement and the laws of chemistry that govern combinations of differentsubstances,andsoon.TheirstudyiswhatIunderstandbyscience.

M:AsIunderstandit,scienceisreallynothingbutanalyticalandabentofmind towards research, maybe in regard of anything. A search born out ofcuriosityaboutsomething.Iconsiderscienceasgoingdeeperanddeeperintothenatureofaparticularsubject.

Howlongcanthebestofscientistskeephislifeforcegoing?Doeshehaveany control over it?No one has control over his life force.The life force hascomespontaneously.anditwillgospontaneously.

Indeepsleep,consciousnessisresting,butthelifeforcegoeson.Attheendoflife,thelifeforcemergeswiththeairoutsidebutdoesnotdie.

10.ENDSUEFERINGBYSTABILIZINGINTHESTATEBEFOREWORDSMAHARAJ:ThetopiconwhichItalk,whichisthediscoveryofone'strue

nature,isextremelydifficult;andwhatismytruenatureisyourtruenature.

Thesubjectcanseeandthinkandanalyzeanobject,butthesubjectcannotseeitself;thatiswherethedifficultyarises.Thescientistcananalyzeanobject.Buthowcanheanalyzehisownbeing?

VISITOR:Butheanalyzeshimselfasanobject;scienceis theanalysisofoneobjectbyanother,withouteverreachingthesubject.

M:Itoldyouthescientistcannotmakeadiscoveryabouthimself.Butthescientist can make a million discoveries about another object... What is ascientist? The scientist as such is only the essence of the food which he haseaten.Sohowcanhedoanyresearchonthenatureofthatessencewhichheis?[Fromthepointofview thatonly thegreater, themore fundamental,can fullyunderstandthelesser,Editor]Thefoodessencethatisthescientist.whenthatisdriedup,whereisthescientist?

Fromnowon,Iwillgiveyouonlyhints;soyoubettergivefullattentiontothose.AndwhenIhavegivenyouthosehints.Iwillpackyouupsothatyouwillhave to work on your own. I will stop feeding people. One can only givedirections. So on this matter, ask questions by all means; then you will getanswers.ButIambasingthequestionsnotonyouridentity;otherwise,therewillbetroubleagain.

V:AsIunderstandit,thequalityoftheconsciousnessisone;thatisderivedfrom the essence of the food substance. But the food substance itself cannotchangethequalityoftheconsciousness;itonlysupportsit,Isthatcorrect?

M : Yes, this food, which supports the consciousness, is so small,

infinitesimal in fact, that it cannot change anything about the consciousness.sinceconsciousnessislimitless.Therefore,howcantherebeanychangeinthenatureormeasurementofconsciousness?

Areyougoingtomanufacturesomequestions?[laughter]

V : The consciousness creates curiosity as well as other desires, and itcreatesthedesiretoknowoneself.Howdoyouseparateonefromanother?

M:Whatisthat“you”thatyouarethinkingof?Givemeasampleof“you”whenthelifeforceandtheconsciousnessarenotthere.Whoisthis"you,"otherthan the life force and the consciousness,whowants to do something? If youhavesomeimageaboutyourselfotherthantheconsciousnessandthelifeforce.Giveusaninstance.Whoisthiswhowantstodothingorother?Thegoodandbaddesireshavespontaneouslyariseninconsciousness.

V:Theycreateimagesofthemselves.

M:Whoisthis“who”?Otherthanthesumtotalofthisconsciousnessandlifeforce.thereisnoindividual.

***

M:Youhavetolookfortheultimatemeaningofyourself.Paramatman,butwhenyouareidentifiedwiththebody,youcannotfindyourself.UltimatelytherealSelfisyourtruenature,andyouarenotthebody.Yourtruenaturecannotbeknownthroughthesenses,butall thesensesderivemeaningfromyourtruenature.Whateverisvisibletoyou,hasmeaningbecauseofthat,thetruereality.

V:Certainthingsthatyouaresayinghavebeenrecordedinthescriptures,theUpanishadsandothers.Butatthismoment.Iamnotinterestedinknowingthat.Myheartseemstohavebecomesortofhungryforgrace.Thereisaconflictin that some say you have to work hard yourself, you have to contain yoursenses,youhavetobringyourmindintofocusandallthat,youhavetogiveupthehabitof thisandthat.Otherssaythat thecompanyofsaints- forexample,when you sit in the company of Ramana Maharshi - will resolve everything.Hence,IseemtohavecometoMaharajwiththeexpectationthatsomethingmayhappenoutofthevibrationsofthisroom.Themindexpectsthatsomethingwillhappenwhichdissolvesallproblems.

M : If you understand whatever is being said here, then you get peace,satisfaction.Butthatsatisfactionhasnodesigninit.

V:Iamstillnotclear.Allthescripturesandsaints,theadvice,youhaveto

put that first. You have to control your mind. Suppose my mind wants to dosomething.Thesagessaydon'trunafterthevagariesofthemind.Controlyourmind,closeyoureyes.Watch,watchyourbreath.AsMaharajexplains,thestateof“I-am-ness,”andallthat.Butmindseemstobelazy;itdoesnotwanttodothat, it just wants the grace. So can I have this grace from Maharaj? I amhelpless.Lazyandalsorestless.AndhereIcomewithanexpectationthatoutofthevibrationsandwordsfromMaharaj,somethingshouldhealmymind.clarifymymind.

M: These conceptswhich you have told us about just now, these are theconceptsofamumukshu,onewhoisdesirousof liberation.That is thesecondstage.Butwhenyoucomehere,Itellyouthatyouarenotthebody:youaretheconsciousness.Thenyouenter the thirdstage; that iscalled thesadhana.Fromthewayyoutalk,Irecognizethatyouareinthestageofamumukshu,onewhowantsliberationbutstillidentifieswiththebody.

Havefullfaithintheguru,whotellsyouthatyouarenotthebodybutaretheconsciousness, that "I"-love. So you are formless. When you are given themantra,andyouchantit,themeaningofthatwordbecomescleartoyou,slowly.In that state you don't identify with the body but take yourself as theconsciousness,whichhasnoform.

V:Soitisnecessarytotakeamantraandtobeinitiatedbythatteacher?

M : It is necessary and it is not necessary also, to get the initiation of amantra.Butbyacceptingamantrafromaguru,themeaningofthatbecomesonewith your vital breath and the vital breath gets purified; and in turn you getpurifiedandyoubecomethemeaningofthatmantra.Thatmeansyouarenotthebodyform;youare themanifestprinciple.Thevitalbreath isyourexpression,everythingisformless.

Thesadhakaor theseekerwho takes initiation fromaguru is sustainedbythe body principle: he is not the body but he is that consciousness. Theconsciousnessissustainedbythebodyprinciple.Thesimplemeaningofmantraistheprinciplecontainingthebody,theconsciousness.Iamthatconsciousness,thedynamicmanifestprincipleBrahman.“Iam,”whichhasnodesign,formorcolor,

Thisconsciousnessisallpowerful;whateverimageorconceptyouhangonto it, its meaning will be delivered into your consciousness and yourconsciousnessbecomethat.

V : Right now my consciousness is a bundle of suffering, hankering forgrace.Myteachertellsmetoacceptamantra,chantthemantraandbecomeonewiththeconsciousnessofthemantra.Butthemindislazy,outofarroganceorwhatever.Outofthehabitofcomparison:whethertotakeaidornottotakeaid,whether to take it fromthisguruor thatguru.That isallpartof thewaveringmind.Itdoesnotwanttoacceptorrejectanybody.It justwantsgracewithoutputtinginanyeffort,withoutpayinganyprice.Itwantsafreegift.

M:Howdareyousayitisidleorlazy?Whatthemindknowsisoutofthevital breath. Is the vital breath idle, lazy, or indulgent?Who told you that themindisidle?

V:Iamsayingitisboth;itislazy.itisgreedy.

M:Thatistheaspectofyourbody,notthemind.Cananythingbeasactiveasthemind?

V:Mindislazyandrestless.Itisrestlessaftergettingthingsfromoutside,materialaswellasspiritual,withoutpayingthepriceforit.

M:IamsittinghereandmymindhasgonetoPoona.Sohowdareyoucallthemindinactive,indolent?Youmightsayitsactivityisfutile,butitisnotlazybyanymeans.

V:Iamsorry,Ihaveusedthewrongword.WhatIwouldliketosayinsteadoflazy,isthatmindisgreedy.itdoesnotwanttopaythepriceandwantsthegift-thegiftofgrace.

M : That is your concept, from the body-mind state.You are interpretingyourmindthroughabodysense.Nothingisasactiveasthemind.

V:ButMaharajhasnotansweredmyquestion.Myquestionis:Iwantgracewithoutpaying theprice.Theendof suffering Iwant.Maharaj says:Takemymantra,meditateuponit,livewithit...Idon'twantallthosethings.

M:Whydidyoucome?

V:BecauseIamsufferingandIwanttheendofsuffering.

M:Andwhyalsodidyoupaythepriceofcoming?

V:ThatIcan'thelp.

M:Thebasicadviceforyouistogiveupspirituality,dosomesocialworkforthebenefitofmankind.

V:ButIhavetheexperiencethatdoingsocialworkisnotpossibleformewithoutfirstendingmyownsuffering.

M:YouwillseetheendofyoursufferingprovidedyouseeyouareThat.

V:Ihavebeentoldthatmymind,nottheconsciousness,isreallymadeupofseveral parts - the physical part, the intellectual part, and the feelings or theemotionalpart.Thisisthecurrentpicturewehaveofourselves.

M:Toproducethesourceofthemind.“Iam,”youmusthavetheingredientof the five-elemental juice. If that is available, the sprouting of themind canbeginwith"Iam."Youknowyouarebeforeevenspeaking thewords"Iam."Subsequenttotheknowingness“Iam,”yousay“Iam”bywords.

V:Butthe“Iam”liesbehindwhatIcurrentlysee,andthatismadeupofdesiresfromtheotherpartsofmymake-up.

M:Areyounotevenbeforeyouhavespokenthewords"Iam"?

V:Yes,ofcourse.

M:Stayputthereonly.Therebeginsyourspirituality,theforemost“you,”“I am,” without words, before the beginning of words. Be there. Out of thatgrowstheexperience“Iam.”

V:Then"Iam"istheobserver.“Being”istheobserver,right?

M:Witnessinghappens to thatprinciplewhich isprior toyoursaying thewords"Iam."There isnosuch thingasdeliberatewitnessing.Witnessing justhappens.byitself.

Youmustalsoanalyze"death,"themeaningofthiscommonparlance.Atthetimethatdeathoccurs,thevitalbreathquitsthebody,graduallyleavesthebody.At the same time as the vital breath, themind and the language also go out.Simultaneously,thisqualityof“Iam,”thissattva-guna,thequalityofbeingness,alsodepartsorgoesintooblivion.OnlyI,theAbsolute,remains.Stayputthereonly;nothinghappenstoI,theAbsolute.

Upon the so-called "death," this sattva-guna, this quality of beingness,merges into the no-beingness state. There is no tangibility left for that "I-am-ness."Thefeelingofisnolongerthere.Ithasbecomenirvana.Thereisnomoresample of beingness. Sowhat happens to that quality of beingness? Itmergesintowhateverthestatethatwasthere,whichisthewitnessingofthedepartureofthe vital breath and this guna, this quality of beingness. It merges into the

Absolutestate.

V:Doesthishappenwitheveryone,orjustwiththosewhorealize“Iam”?

M:Ithappensintotality,forall.Inthatstate,thereisnoaccountabilityof"I-am-ness"also;sowhere is thequestionof“I"andothers? In thatstate, intowhichthequalityofbeingnessmerges,thereisno“I-am-ness.”Soyoucan'ttalkofothersonthe"Iam."

Toattendtothis,youshouldmeditateonthemeditativestate,youshouldnotmeditateonwhatis,butyoushouldmeditateonmeditation.Sowhenyoureallymeditate on the meditator. or on that meditative state, whatever is not fit formeditationwill drop away.Andonly themeditatorwill remainwithout objectfor meditation. It is easy for anyone to meditate on what is, when that is anobject.But it is difficult for one tomeditate on oneself.Themeditator cannotmeditateonanothermeditator,ifthelatterisoriginallyhimself.Butthatistobeattained.Intheprocessofmeditationonthemeditator,themeditationsubsides;itisnolongermeditation.ittranscendsmeditation.Ifyouareabletomeditateonthemeditator,onyourself,alltheriddleswillbesolvedforyou,whatevertheymaybe.

Comingtothepoint,don'tbeobsessedbywhatis.Meditateonthemeditator.

Presently,Iamaccusedofaseriousdisease.Iaminvestigatingthenatureofthatdiseaseandtowhomisthatdisease.Firstofall.Istartwiththebody,whichis the five-elemental play. The latter is there, provided the consciousness isthere.Iwanttoinvestigate,aboutthisconsciousness,whichissustainedbythefive-elementalbody,wouldithaveautonomy?Asaresultofthisinvestigation,Ifind that this "I-am-ness."which is the product of the five elements, does nothavetheexclusiveauthoritytoperpetuateitself.Thesicknessissubjectedtothisbody,whichagainis theexpressionof theconsciousness.Thissicknesshasnotangibleform;similarly,theconsciousnesshasnotangibleform.Itdoesnothaveapermanentfeature, it isonlytemporary;therefore, it isnotthetruth.Theonewhoobservestheconsciousnessisthetruth.SohedoeswithhisabidanceintheAbsolute,whoisinapositiontoobserveallthisplay,alltheunreality.Andinthat unreality, the sickness is happening. In that fashion, this entire show iseliminatedasabighoax.includingtheconsciousness,thefive-elementalworldand the sickness. Therefore, the sickness has no real existence, because thisconsciousnesshasnoexistenceinreality.

This is theway I dismissmy so-called sickness. Can anyone develop anyconceptinthisfashion?

HereisaparticularexampleastohowIfollowthatcourseofthemeditatormeditatingonthemeditator.Don'tgivescopeforworriestoobsessyou.Whenthe medical consultant pronounced judgment of the illness. he told me: Youshould takemy treatment, although in spiteof it certain symptomswill occur:“Bloodwillcomeoutofyournoseandthroat,andwhatnot.”Somanythingshesaid.Thepainwillbealittleless,butallotherthingswilltaketheircourse.SoIsaid.no;inthenextfivemonthsorso,nothingwillhappentome.Theoriginaljudgment was so serious that it would have depressed any patient. All thesymptoms should have become apparent very soon. But so far nothing hashappened.Whatisitdueto?Iwasnotmeditatingonthejudgmentofthedoctor.Iwasmeditatingonthemeditator.Therefore,sofartherehasbeennoeffectofthatjudgmentonme.

Letanythinghappeninyourbody.Butstayputinyourconfidencethatyouare themanifest Brahman or you are the Absolute. The ideal spiritual seekermust he independent of all external forces; he should not hold on to anyone'sapronstrings,butshoulddependonlyonhimself.

Peoplearealways taken fora ride.Acertainconcept isgiven to themandtheyhangon to it, fordear life.Then thatconceptcomes tofruitionandgivesresults.Butthatisan"objective"achievementandisnotgoingtolastlong.

I amaskingyou to abide in your own self. this primary concept that "youare";youabideinthatandseewhathappens.

Arethereanyquestions?

***

M:Thememoryofthebodyisnotyouridentity; theknowledge"Iam"isyourpresentidentity.Stabilizeinit.Fromthebodilystandpoint,youcantalkalot,thinkingthatitisknowledgebutitisnot.

V : The problem stems from the otherway.Maharaj says in his teaching:Stay with the “I-am-ness.” And I say that mind is restless; my mind is notcapableofstayinginthis“I-am-ness.”

M : your understanding that you are the body, the problem can never besolved.

V:IknowthisandintellectuallyIcanunderstandit,butactuallyIcan'thelpit.

M:Youarepriortoyourintelligence.

V:IamnotinterestedinanyotherstatementthatMaharajisgiving.

M:Whydon'tyoustop repeating the same thing?Youareutteringwordslike an apprentice entering the spiritual trade. I want to convert you into anearnestseeker.

V : There is the statement “God is all-pervasive, consciousness is all-pervasive;therefore,Godisconsciousness,toseeGodistobeGod.”ButIamnotthat,Isthatcorrect?

INTERPRETER:Whenyousay.Iamnotthat,Maharajwillaskyou:Whatdoyoumeanby"Iam"?

V:Neti-neti[Ed.:notthis,notthat]

I:Hewillaskyou.towhichyoureferwhenyousay,Iamnotthat.Whichisthat"Iam"?

V:One'ssourceofconsciousness.That'sthethrustofmyquestion.

I:This“Iam”isconsciousness.isitnot?

V:Yes.

I : And you say, consciousness is all-pervasive. God is all-pervasive.Therefore,Godequalstheconsciousness,equalsthe“Iam.”Nowwhatisyourquestion?

V:Thequestionwas:“ToseeGod,istobeGod,butIamnotthat”-isthatacorrectstatementtomake?

M : You are correct. I need not go in upon that further. The way youunderstand is correct. Though generally I am not being given to agree. Anyfurtherquestions?

IwillexplainwhyIaminclinednottoagreewithpeople.Iwillelaborateonthat.Youwanttohangontocertainwords:youinterprettheminsuchafashion,inyourownwordsandyouhangon to thosewords.Youmust remember thatyou are prior to thewords; kill thewords.Don't frameyour knowledge, don'tconditionitbywords.Bepriortothewords.

I:ItoldMaharaj,nowIunderstandwhyyoualwaysdisagreewithwhateverwe say, because he never wants us to stick to any words, any statement. Hewantsustostabilizepriortowords.Thatiswhyhealwaysdisengagesusfromthewordstowhichweareclingingasourknowledge.Hedirectsustostabilize

priortowords,thatisveryimportant.

M:Thediseasehasnonameandform; ithasno true foundation,becausethe “I am” also is an illusion. So you must always try to understand in thisfashion:What is my true meaning? Your true meaning cannot be grasped orcapturedbyanywords.Youcanneverbeequatedwithanywords,becauseyouarepriortowords.Wordsaresubsequenttoyou.

GLOSSARYAdvaita:Vedantateachingofnon-duality

Ajnana lit.:“not knowing.” ignorance, spiritual unawareness; theoppositeofjnana,knowledge

Atma(n):Self,thetruespiritualasopposedtotheempiricalself,thebody-mind

Brahman:TheAbsolute;UltimateReality,theSelf

Brihasparilit.:"Lordoftheimmensemagnitude,"inHindulore,thenameof the guru of the gods; sometimes used byMaharaj to designate the humanspecies.

Buddhi:intellectualfaculty,powerofdiscrimination;loosely,"mind"

Chetana:consciousness

Darishma:meaningofthiswordisobscure–Editor

Dhyana-yoga:yogaofmeditation

Gunas:thethreebasicattributesorenergetic/materialqualitiesthatunderlieandoperate theworldprocess: sattva (purity,clarity,harmony), rajas (passion,energy, activity) and tamas (inertia, resistance, darkness). Everything in thematerialuniverse is said tobemadeof the threegunas invariousproportions.Maharajalsousesthetermgunainthegeneralsenseofbasicquality,andinthesenseofbeing.

Ishvara:God,theSupremeBeing,LordoftheUniverse

Japa:therecitingofanameofGod.atechniquetoquietthemindandattainconstantremembranceofGod

Japi-tapi:devoteewhorecitesholynamesandpracticesausterities

Jiva:theindividualsoul,theego

Jnana:knowledge,moreparticularlyspiritualknowledge

Jnani:lit.:“knower”:realizedsage

Madhyama : middle stage in which the tangible formation of languagebegins

Manas:mind

Maya : the cosmic illusion, more particularly the primordial illusion ofidentification with the body; the manifest dynamic principle that projects thecosmicillusionandconcealsthetranscendentunity.

Mayatita:thestatepriortomaya.theAbsolute.

Mumukshu:onewhoaspiresforliberation.

Neti-neti:"notthis.notthat."anUpanishadicsayingwhosepurportisthatthesupremeBrahmanisbeyondanyattributeorquality.

Nirguna:attributeless,non-qualitativestate;withoutqualities;theAbsolute,“Non-beingness”

Nirgunarajas :without attributes or activity, having no qualities and no"beingness"

Nirguna-nirrajas:sameasnirgunarajas

Nirrajas:withoutactivity,havingnotraceof"beingness"

Nirvana:stateofnon-identityortotaltranscendenceofego;thelossofthesenseof"I-am-ness":theParabrahman;

Nirvikalpa:atranscendentstatefromwhich.itissaidthereisanoreturntoego-consciousness:concept-freestate;

Nishkama:thedesirelessstate.

Para:theSupreme;thesourceoflanguage:theAbsolute

Parabrahman : the Highest. the Absolute; the state before space-time,beforeconception;theUnborneternalprinciple,thestate'otherthan'(beyond)“Iam”orbeingnesswhichistransitory.

Paramatman:theSupremeSelf;Parabrahman.

Pashyanti:theincipientstageofthemanifestationoflanguage.

Prana:thevitalbreath.lifeforce.

Prarabdha:destinythatisalreadyinmotion.asopposedtothekarmathatispotentialbutwillnotmanifestuntilfuturelives:thekarmathatdeterminesthecourseofthispresentlife.

Prasad:blessedfoodthathasbeenspiritualizedbyitsofferingtoadeityorguru.

Puja:ceremonialworship.

Rajas:rajas-gunaenergy.passion.dynamicquality;oneofthethreegunas.

Sadhaka:advancedseeker:spiritualaspirant.

Sadhana:spiritualpracticeordiscipline.

Saguna,sagunabrahman:withattributes.

Samadhi : lit.: "unionwith theLord";advancedstageofmeditation,oftendescribedastrance-like.

Satsang : associationwith devotees ofGod or a saint, said to be of greatspiritualbenefit.

Sattva, satva-guna : consciousness: also seed-beingness; clarity, purity.harmony;oneofthethreegunas.

Sver :possibly fromSanskrit/Hindiword svar, sound, tone,meaning hereuncertain-Editor

tamas, tamas-guna : inertia, resistance, darkness, ignorance, also theclaimingofdoership:oneofthethreegunas.

Tapa:thepracticeofausterities,usuallyofaspiritualnature

Vachaspati:animalkingdom.

Vaikhari:finalstageinthedevelopmentoflanguage.

Vairagya:dispassion.Non-attachment.

Vanaspati:vegetablekingdom.

Vidya:knowledge.

Visranti:completerelaxationleadingtototalforgetfuinessinmeditation.

BIBLIOGRAPHYBalsekar, Ramesh S. Pointers fromNisargadatta. Bombay, India: Chetana;

Durham,N.C.:TheAcornPress,1982.,

Brent. Peter. Godmen of India. Harmondsworth. Middlesex. England:PenguinBooks,1972.

Nisargadatta, Maharaj. I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj,Translated from theMarathi byMaurice Frydman, and edited by Sudhakar S.Dikshit.Bombay.India:Chetana;Durham,N.C.:TheAcornPress.1994.

Consciousnessand tbeAbsolute.EditedbyJeanDunn.Durham,N.C.:TheAcornPress.1994.

Prior to Consciousness. Edited by jean Dunn. Durham, N.C.: The AcornPress, second edition. 1990. . Seeds ofconsciousness. Edited by Jean Dunn.Durham,N.C.:TheAcornPress,secondedition.1990.

The UltimateMedicine. Edited by Robert Powell. San Diego: Blue DovePress,1994

TheNectarofImmortality.EditedbyRobertPowell.SanDiego:BlueDovePress,1996Powell,Robert.TheBlissfulLife.Durham.N.C.:TheAcornPress,1984.

TheWisdomofSriNisargadattaMaharaj.SanDiego:BlueDovePress,1995Sri Nisafgadarta Maharaj Presentation Volume: 1980. Bombay. India: Sri NisargadattaAdhyatmaKendra.1981.

"NisargadattaMaharaj ismygreatest teacher.Hiswordsguidemywriting,speaking and all of my relationships. The singular pursuit of the awakenedpersonistofindthatpartofhimselforherselfthatcannotbedestroyedbydeath.I know of no one who can aid you more on that journey than NisargadattaMaharaj.HiswisdomguidedmethroughoutthewritingofYourSacredSelf."

-Dr.WayneDyerauthorofYourErroneousZonesandYourSacreSelf

“TheExperienceofNothingnessisanothermajorcontributiontoalibraryof

workbyNisargadattaMaharaj. It trulypoints to theno-experienceexperience.thebeingornostatewhichisbeyondnameandform,yetembracesusall."

-Dr.StephenWolinskyauthorofHeartsonFireandTheWayoftheHuman

SriNisargadattaMaharaj(1897-1981),areveredmasteroftheTantricNathlineage, is an inspiring example of an ordinary family man who attainedcompleterealizationoftheInfinite.Hiswordscarryararepotencythatcanjoltthelistenerorreaderintoaprofoundsenseofawareness,whichatthesametimesignifiestruefreedom-thefreedomfromallfearandmentalsuffering.

In this, the final volume of a trilogy published by Blue Dove Press,Nisargadatta clearly demonstrates that logic and spirituality do not necessarilystandinoppositiontooneanother.Inachapterafterwhichthisbookhasbeentitled,Nisargadattarelentlesslypursuesalogicalargumentwithhisvisitortoitsveryend,showingthatuntilthereistranscendenceofallthought,logicremainsfullyvalidandshouldbepursuedrigorously.

“What do you understand by tbeword 'dream'?Howdo you understand adream? Isnot thedreamsomething likeadrama.aplay?...Toonewho reallyunderstandswhathasbeensaidhere,adreamisnodifferentfromwhatisseeninthewakingstate:bothareplaysofconscionsness...Wecallonethingthewakingstate,another thingthedream...but inessencebothareeventshappeningintheconsciousnessandessentiallytheyarenotdifferent."

SriNisargadattaMaharajThisbookisthethirdvolumeofatrilogyofbooksbySriNisargadattaMaharaj,editedby

RobertPowell.Theothervolumes,alsopublishedbyBlueDovePress,areTheUltimate

MedicineandTheNectarofImmortality.

BlueDovePresspublishesbooksbyandaboutsagesandsaintsofallreligionsaswellas

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Coverandtextdesign:BrianMoucka.PoppyGraphics,SantaBarbara,California

LibraryofCongressCataloging-in-Publicationdata:

Nisargadstta.Maharaj,l897-1981

Theexperienceofnothingness,SriNisargadattaMaharaj'stalksonrealizingtheinfinite

/editedbyRobertPowell

p.cm.

Includesbibliographicalreferences.ISBN:l-884997-14-7

l.Spirituallife--Hinduism.2.Hinduism-Doctrines.I.Powell,Robert,19.18-.II.Title.

EL12l4.26.N5?31996

96-24322

CIP