2 / 2005: ketvirtinis leidinys. Pokalbiai apie menà

Dëmesio: Lolitos Jablonskienës ir Nicolauso Schafhauseno pokalbis

Reportaþas: Tautvydo Bajarkevièiaus interviu su Carstenu Nicolai Vilniuje

Lietuvoje: Larso Bang Larseno interviu su Henriko VIII þmonomis apie Populizmà

Dieteris Lesage’as apie menà ir vakarëlius

Svetur: Arûno Gudaièio ir Kristinos Inèiûraitës pokalbis apie Paryþiø

Þmonës: Valentino Klimaðausko interviu su Piotru Piotrowskiu ir Darium Mikðiu

Biblioteka: Raminta Jurënaitë ir Gintautas Maþeikis

Meninis projektas: Mirjam Wirz

Ðiuolaikinio meno centras, Vilnius www.cac.lt

INTERVIU

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2 / 2005

Redaktoriai / Editors: Linara Dovydaitytë, Simon ReesDizainas / Design: Daiva KiðûnaitëVertimas / Translation: Virginija Januðkevièiûtë, AgnëNaruðytë, Kristupas Ðepkus, Ûla TornauSpauda / Printer: Sapnø sala

© Ðiuolaikinio meno centras, menininkai ir tekstø autoriai / Contemporary Art Centre, Vilnius, theartists and writers, 2005.

Leidinys ar jo dalis negali bûti dauginama ir atgamina-ma komerciniais tikslais be leidëjo sutikimo.No part of this publication may be reproduced withoutprior permission of the publisher compatible with fair practice.

ISSN 1822-2064

Leidþia Ðiuolaikinio meno centras 4 kartus per metus.Produced four times a year by the Contemporary Art Centre, Vilnius.

INTERVIU skelbiamos mintys nebûtinai atitinka leidëjoar redakcijos nuomonæ.The views expressed in INTERVIU are not necessarily those of the Publishers or Editors.

Ðiuolaikinio meno centras [ÐMC]Contemporary Art Centre [CAC]Vokieèiø 2, LT-01130 VilniusLithuaniaT: +370-5-262 3476F: +370-5-262 3954E: interviu@cac.lt

INTERVIU bièiuliai / INTERVIU friendsAnn Demeester, AmsterdamChristoph Tannert, BerlinGordon Dalton, CardiffVanessa Joan Müller, FrankfurtMichael Stumpf, GlasgowIrina Gorlova, MoscowJens Hoffman, LondonSofia Hernaÿndez Chong Cuy, New YorkAlexis Vaillant, ParisSolvita Krese, RigaNiklas Östholm, StockholmHanno Soans, TallinnMagda Kardasz, Warsaw

kuravusiems BMW, 9-àjà Baltijos tarptautinio meno trienalæ, kuri vyko Ðiuolaikinio meno centre Vilniuje ir Ðiuolaikinio meno institute Londone (ICA) nuo 2005Toliau iðvardinti klausimai ið ateities buvo pateikti Sofiai Hernandez Chong Cuy (Niujorkas), Raimundui Malaðauskui (Vilnius) ir Alexiui Vaillant (Paryþius),

AAnnttrrass rrauunnddass

Tæsinys, antroji romano dalis ar filmo serijapaprastai susilaukia iðskirtinio dëmesio.Kritikams ir skaitytojams visada ádomu, artæsinys toks pat stiprus kaip ir pirmoji dalis,ar tebeturi naujumo prieskoná ir tebekaustoskaitytojo dëmesá. O gal palieka tik „padëvë-to daikto“ áspûdá? INTERVIU kaip tik tokiojesituacijoje ir tik laikas parodys, kaip yra iðtikrøjø.

Ðiuo metu Ðiuolaikinio meno centras leidþiastambø katalogà Emisija, kuris tam tikraprasme irgi yra kito didþiulio leidinio Lietuvosdailë 1989-1999: deðimt metø tæsinys. Iðtreèiojo tûkstantmeèio pirmo deðimtmeèiovidurio perspektyvos þvelgiama á septynismenininkus, priklausanèius deðimto deðimt-meèio kartai. Pristatydamas septynis mono-grafinius projektus, Emisijos katalogas rikiuo-ja ðiuos menininkus, dëlioja ir stumdo lygdomino kaladëles – kas gali numatyti, kokiatvarka jos iðkris?

Kaþkodël 2005-ieji atrodo zeitgeist metai.Pranaðystës ir panaðûs dalykai paprastaitaupomi deðimtmeèiø kaitos momentui.Taèiau ðio deðimtmeèio vidury daugelis ávykiøsusidëjo á krûvà, iðryðkindami istorinius laiko-tarpio bruoþus. Uþtenka paminëti keletà –popieþiaus mirtá, 60-àsias karo Europoje irnaciø mirties stovyklø pabaigos metines,Holokausto memorialo Berlyne atidarymà, ESkonstitucijos ratifikavimo procesà, milþiniðkøAir Bus ir Boeing lëktuvø paleidimà. Sukankair 15 metø – priklauso, kaip skaièiuosi, – kaididelë Europos (ir europieèiø) dalis iðsivadavoið sovietinës okupacijos. Ir visi ðie ávykiai tapodaugelio kultûros renginiø, straipsniø,debatø ir meno kûriniø tema visoje Europojeir uþ jos ribø.

INTERVIU irgi nekitoks. Lolita Jablonskienë irNicolausas Schafhausenas kalbasi apienetolimà ateitá kaip asmenys, atsakingi uþkultûriniø institucijø kûrimà – jø kritinispoþiûris remiasi dviejø deðimtmeèiø darbo patirtimi ðioje srityje. Lietuviø menininkaiArûnas Gudaitis ir Kristina Inèiûraitë kalbasiapie meno rinkà – paèià naujausià institucijàLietuvoje. Valentinas Klimaðauskas diskutuojasu vienu reikðmingiausiø Lenkijos intelektualøPiotru Piotrowskiu ir menininku DariumiMikðiu apie Karolio Wojtylos vaidmená jogimtojoje ðalyje ir ðiandieniniame pasaulyje.Pokalbyje su Tautvydu Bajarkevièiumi þino-mas garso menininkas Carstenas Nicolaipasakoja apie eksperimentinæ muzikà irpasenusias sovie-tines áraðø technologijas,kuriomis susidomëjo dar VDR gyvavimometais. Kuratorius Larsas Bang Larsenaskalbina menininkø grupës Henriko VIIIþmonos na-rius apie jø projektà Tatlino bokð-tas – bandymà realizuoti Vladimiro Tatlino1920-aisiais sukurtà paminklà III KomunistøInternacionalui. Ar Tatlino bokðtas yra darvienas paminklas þlugusiems idealams?INTERVIU tikisi, kad ne.

Ieðkodami naujoviø pradedame knygø ap-þvalgos rubrikà, ðiame numeryje taip patpublikuojame filosofo Dieterio Lesage’o teks-tà, skaitytà Ðiuolaikinio meno centre balandá.Naujojoje rubrikoje bus recenzuojamos nese-niai iðleistos ar iðverstos á lietuviø kalbà kny-gos, kurios, mûsø poþiûriu, gali átakoti ðiuo-laikinio meno kontekstualizavimà ir recepcijà.Tokiø vilèiø neturëtume, jei patikëtumeDieterio Lesage’o tekstu apie tuðèià ðiuo-laikinio meno aplinkos, kurioje niekas neturireikðmës, spindesá. Jau ið tiesø metas prisi-liesti prie kriðtolinio rutulio – ir paþadëti visaspaslaptis atskleisti rugsëjá.

Linara Dovydaitytë, Simon Rees

Ðiam pokalbiui su Nicolausu Schafhausenususitikome Amsterdame, prieð pat Populizmoparodos atidarymà Stedelijko muziejuje. Beje,kità dienà Amsterdame virë tikrø tikriausiapopulistø puota – olandai ðventë karalienës

Beatrix karûnavimo trisdeðimtmetá. Prieðsavaitæ Populizmas, kurá Schafhausenas kura-vo kartu su Cristina Ricupero ir Larsu BangLarsenu, atsidarë Ðiuolaikinio meno centreVilniuje, ir, man iðvykstant á Amsterdamà,Superflex ir Jenso Haaningo lankytojø skaitiklisbylojo, kad parodà Vilniuje jau buvo pamatædu su puse tûkstanèio þiûrovø. Kalbà apienaujas Europos meno institucijas pradëjomedar Vilniuje, mat tuo metu pasklido þinia, kadSchafhausenas palieka Frankfurto kunstve-reino direktoriaus postà ir pradeda vadovautinaujai institucijai. Kadangi pati dirbu ágyvendi-nant naujo modernaus ir ðiuolaikinio menomuziejaus Vilniuje projektà, ádomu buvo pa-klausinëti, kaip gimsta naujos institucijos

Europoje, kaip apibrëþia savo misijà jaupakankamai komplikuotame nûdienoskultûros institucijø lauke ir ypaè – kaipsàveikauja su „institucijø kritika“, aktyviai plë-tojama ávairiose ðiuolaikinio meno praktikose.

Atvirai sakant, tikëjausi, kad tai bus dviejøþmoniø, „stovinèiø prie pamatø duobës“,padejavimai, bet maloniai nustebau susidûrusisu kitokiu poþiûriu á institucijø steigimà.

Lolita JJabblonskienë: Gal pradëkime nuopradþiø: koks naujosios institucijos pavadini-mas ir kada ji atsidarys?Nicolauusass Scchaffhauusenass: Ið pradþiø apskritaikeletas þodþiø apie institucijas. Paþvelgæ á jas,ypaè á Vidurio Europoje ðiuolaikinio meno dis-tribucijà vykdanèias institucijas, pastebësime,kad per pastaruosius ðeðerius-septyneriusmetus jø finansø struktûra, valstybinio (armunicipalinio) bei privataus finansavimo san-tykis, o taip pat strateginës funkcijos miestø

struktûroje dramatiðkai pasikeitë. Sakau taip,nes man teko dirbti dviejø skirtingø privaèiøinstitucijø, beje, itin galingø ir átakingø menosistemoje institucijø, direktoriumi – nemeniniu, o tikruoju direktoriumi. LJ: Turite omenyje Vokietijos ðiuolaikinio menosistemà ar kalbate plaèiau?NS: Plaèiau. Nors Vokietija, þinoma, yra vienasið svarbiausiø Europos centrø, net po keliøekonominiø kriziø, kurias ji iðgyveno po susi-jungimo. Tai labai svarbi ðalis ðiuolaikiniomeno recepcijos, distribucijos ir produkcijosprasme. Jos ðiuolaikinio meno institucijø istori-ja taip pat itin ádomi. Daugelis instituciniømodeliø – nuo municipaliniø kunstvereino irkunsthalës iki dideliø privaèiø ir valstybiniømuziejø – prigijo ir kitose Europos ðalyse, irèia, mano nuomone, buvo iðvystyti daug sëk-mingiau nei paèioje Vokietijoje.LJ: Kaip manote kodël?NS: Tai ir yra vienas svarbiausiø klausimø, ákuriuos turësiu atsakyti, rengdamas EuropeanKunsthalle Cologne (Europos kunsthalësKelne) koncepcijà.LJ: Ar tai oficialus naujosios institucijos pava-dinimas?NS: Taip, tai yra neseniai patvirtintas projektopavadinimas – European (ne Europäische)Kunsthalle Cologne. Nors skamba jis ganaprieðtaringai. Kà apskritai reiðkia EuropeanKunsthalle Cologne? Net neþinia, ar ji kadanors taps realia fizine erdve. Bet kai manepakvietë kandidatuoti á ðios naujos institucijosdirektoriaus postà, þvelgdamas ið VidurioEuropos perspektyvos pamaniau, kad toksdarbas gali bûti vienu ið mano, kaip kurato-riaus, tikslø. Manau, turiu tam reikalingospatirties: þinau darbo Vokietijoje ir tarptauti-niame kontekste specifikà, esu dirbæs suskirtingomis kultûromis, rengiau projektuskitose Europos ðalyse, miestuose, ávairioseinstitucijose ir t.t. Pradedu dirbti [jau greitai –2005 birþelá], padedant privaèiai kultûrinei ini-ciatyvai Das Loch. Ðià asociacijà ákûrë Kelnokultûrinis elitas. Asociacijà, kurios pavadinimàreikëtø versti þodþiu „skylë“, sudaro tokieþmonës, kaip viena þymiausiø Vokietijosmenininkiø Rosemarie Trockel ar Ludwigomuziejaus direktorius Kasparas Königas, taippat þinomas galerininkas Christianas Nagelisar itin populiarus aktorius Udo Kieras ir kt.Þvelgiant á ðiandieniná Kelno statusà Europosmeno sistemoje, akivaizdu, kad ðis miestaspastaruoju metu prarado átakà ðiuolaikiniomeno istorijai, kuria neabejotinai galëjo di-dþiuotis nuo penkto deðimtmeèio pabaigos ikidevinto deðimtmeèio pabaigos.

Dëmesio

Lolitos Jablonskienës irNicolauso Schafhausenopokalbis

ÐMC INTERVIU / CAC INTERVIU

Meninis projektas: Mirjam Wirz, Auto Portretai, 2004-Tai automatiniu principu veikiantis ir pats save generuojantis projektas, kuriame fiksuojami á kolaboracinius kultûrinius projektus ásitraukæ „menininkai/muzikan-tai/dizaineriai/aktyvistai“. Projektà sudaro dokumentinio pobûdþio momentinës Vilniuje gyvenanèiø ir jo kultûriná gyvenimà veikianèiø þmoniø fotografijos.Projektas bus baigtas, kai ratas uþsidarys – kai naujas vieno ið dalyviø parekomenduotas þmogus bus jau dalyvavæs.

Artist Project: Mirjam Wirz Auto Portraits 2004-This is a self-generating automatic project recording ‘artists/musicians/designers/activists’ who are involved in collaborative cultural practices. It constructs a docu-mentary snapshot of individuals in Vilnius who are important to the transmission of culture here. The project will reach a conclusion when the participants whoare asked to recommend the next portrait subject nominate someone who has already appeared: closing the loop.

4 5

ar ne?NS: Ne. Ðiai daliai plëtoti ieðkosime partneriø,bendradarbiø Europoje ir pasaulyje. Kuriameir patarëjø tarybà, kurià sudarys asmenybës,turinèios realià átakà didþiajai Europoskultûros politikai.LJ: Ar tai reiðkia, kad menininkai ir kitikultûros veikëjai, paskelbæ ðià iniciatyvà,nebëga nuo politikos á naujus jaukius namustik sau, o prieðingai – siekia aktyviai dalyvauti

politiniame gyvenime?NS: Kaip tik taip. Jie siekia dalyvauti politinëjediskusijoje.LJ: Ir dël ryðiø su politika, ir dël kitø prieþas-èiø – ar tai realistinis, ar utopinis projektas?NS: Manau, kad realistinis. Apskritai laikasbaigti nesibaigianèià socialinio-politinio irkultûrinio gyvenimo pertvarkà, nuolatinesreformas ir imti galvoti apie stabilumà.

LJ: Puikiai þinau ðià pokyèiø ir reformø ide-ologijos dvasià. Jau keliolika metø Lietuvojevisos vieðojo gyvenimo sritys trimituoja apiereformas, tik maþai kas spëja susimàstyti apiejø turiná ir rezultatus. NS: Iðties – kà reiðkia reforma?LJ: O ar bendradarbiavimas su menininkais –juk Das Loch daugiausiai sudaro menininkai –kuriant naujos institucijos koncepcijà yravaisingas? Þinau, kad Jûs taip pat studijavote

menà, taèiau ðámano klausimàveikiau paskati-no átemptimenininkø irinstitucijø san-tykiai Lietuvoje.NS: Taip, aðstudijavaumenus, taèiau,pradëjæs kura-toriaus karjerà,pabaigiaumenininkogyvenimà.Mano kurato-rinë praktikanëra meninisprojektas.PrisimindamasKelnomenininkø inici-atyvà, galiupasakyti, kadnesu anksèiaudirbæs tokiomisaplinkybëmis,nesu buvæstokioje situaci-joje; taigi irman tai yravisai naujapatirtis. Ádomutai, kad ðian-dien meninin-kai, ypaè ðiemenininkai, yralabai galingi irátakingi, puikiaiásitvirtinæ meno

rinkoje. Kai kurie jø, pavyzdþiui, RosemarieTrockel, jau nëra vien menininkai, o veikiausavotiðki kultûros faktoriai. Pasiraðiau sutartádvejiems metams. Mano misija per ðá laikàsukurti instituciniø praktikø santykio sukultûros politika diskursà. Toks yra ir Das Lochasociacijos tikslas.LJ: Ar per ðiuos metus numatote ágyvendintiir konkreèiø meniniø projektø? Kaip apskritai

planuojate bendrauti su visuomene?NS: Yra ávairiø bûdø supaþindinti visuomenæsu mûsø darbu. Kelnas yra ir þiniasklaidosmiestas, net jei ne toks galingas kaipFrankfurtas, Berlynas ar Hamburgas. Kaipminëjau, tikiu aukðtosios kultûros, intelektu-alø galia. Kaip tik todël buriame ne tikEuropos, bet ir viso pasaulio patarëjøkomandà, kuri galëtø átakoti didþiàjà politikà.European Kunsthalle Cologne reikia galios,kad ji galëtø ágyvendinti savo sumanymus.LJ: Koks jûsø poþiûris á ðiuolaikinio menoinstitucijø veiklos metodus? Ar manote, kadjos turëtø visø pirma bûti diskusijø platfor-momis, idëjø laboratorijomis, ar visgi menokûriniø eksponavimo vietomis, menininkøprojektø realizavimo aikðtelëmis?NS: Ðiuolaikinio meno institucijos negali bûtitik laboratorijomis. Tai neleidþia joms vykdytikitø labai svarbiø funkcijø. Manau, kad ðiuo-laikinio meno institucija – tai ir paprasèiausiaparodø erdvë. Að mëgstu parodas ir papras-tus jø lankytojus bei betarpiðkà emociná pas-tarøjø santyká su meno kûriniais. Manæsnedomina diskurso, skirto uþdaram menokontekstui, kûrimas. Tuo juk turëtø uþsiimtiuniversitetai. O kunsthalës ir kunstvereinainëra universitetai.LJ: Teigiate, kad kiekviena institucija turëtøsiekti bûti geriausia savo srityje: universitetasturi bûti geras universitetas...?NS: Þinoma. Biblioteka turi bûti biblioteka,archyvas – archyvu, o muziejus – muziejumisu rinkiniu, kaip rinkiniu...LJ: Ar turite favorièiø tarp ðiuolaikinio menoinstitucijø?NS: Ne viena jø ðiandien puikiai dirba ir turigerø idëjø. Taèiau dauguma jø kalba tik apiepokyèius ir reformas. Idëjos negali bûti visadaðiuolaikinës ir aktualios – kai jos nustojatokiomis bûti, reikia jø atsisakyti.LJ: Bet reformos ir pokyèiai, kaip taisyklë, aso-cijuojasi su revoliucija ir progresu – kitoje pu-sëje rikiuojasi konservatyvumas ir stagnacija.NS: Nebûtinai. Ðiuo metu Europoje vykstakonservatyvi revoliucija ir konservatyviosreformos.

Ðioje vietoje mûsø ádomus pokalbis nutrûko,nes jau kone vëluojantá á parodos atidarymàStedelijko muziejuje Schafhausenà kolegosbrukte ábruko á taksi. Tad instituciniø modeliøsvarstymai liko nebaigti. Laukite tæsinio.

Lolita Jablonskienë yra LDM Nacionalinësdailës galerijos vadovë ir Lietuvos paviljono

51-ojoje Venecijos bienalëje antroji komisarë.

LJ: Tad ko siekia ðiandieninis Kelno elitas?NS: Pirmiausia jie nenori meno institucijølauko atiduoti politikams. Kelne nuo 1980metø veikë kunsthalë, tiesa, veikë ji nesëk-mingai; taip pat neseniai po rekonstrukcijosnaujose patalpose duris atvërë pakankamaiþymus Kelno kunstvereinas. Taèiau abi ðiosinstitucijos pasmerktos, mat miestas nuspren-dë pastatyti vienà naujà kultûros centrà,kokiø dabar pilna visuose Europos miestuose– juose ávairiø srièiø muziejai ir kitos kultûrosinstitucijos ákurdinamos po vienus stogu, taipsuformuojant savotiðkà naujà instituciná mo-delá. Toká centrà numatyta pastatyti miestoviduryje, paèiame Kelno centre. Atrodo, kaddiskusijai apie ðios institucijos koncepcijànepakako pinigø ir politinës valios, tadaktyvistai, minëtoji kultûrinë iniciatyva nu-sprendë kitaip atkreipti miesto politinësvaldþios dëmesá: jie atsisakë pasiûlymo daly-vauti kuriant kultûros centro modelá ir iðkëlëmintá – tik idëjà – sukurti visiðkai naujos insti-tucijos, vadinamos European KunsthalleCologne, koncepcijà. Pagrindiniu institucijostikslu turëtø tapti skirtingø kultûrø tyrimai, o

ne politikø vizijø ágyvendinimas. Man tai atro-do ypatingai ádomus judëjimas, nors ðiuometu daugelis dalykø dar nëra nuspræsti.Kartu su dar tebeformuojama komanda kur-sime ðios institucijos, kokia ji bebûtø, kon-cepcijà.LJ: Vadinasi, kalbame apie koncepcijoskûrimà – nëra nei konkreèios vietos ðiaikunsthalei, nei jokios pamatø duobës? NS: Nei þemës sklypo, nei duobës, nieko nëra.LJ: Norëèiau paklausti apie minëtoskultûrinës iniciatyvos ir Das Loch asociacijosideologijà: kà manote apie ðiuolaikinio menoir elito santyká apskritai ir ðiuo konkreèiuatveju?NS: Tvirtai tikiu aukðtàja kultûra. Mus supadaugybë aukðtosios ir þemosios kultûrosrûðiø. Ðiuolaikinio meno vieta istoriðkaivisuomet buvo aukðtojoje kultûroje. Tadkodël turëtume jos vengti? Juolab, kad ji taippat gali bûti populiari.LJ: Naujoji Europos kunsthalë kuriama Kelne,tam tikra prasme Vokietijos ðiuolaikinëskultûros ðirdyje. Taèiau minëjote, kaddëmesys skirtingoms kultûroms yra naujos

institucijos tikslas. Kodël ði misija atrodo svar-bi Kelno kultûriniam elitui ir Jumsasmeniðkai?NS: Nes to kaip tik trûksta dabartineiVokietijai. Svarbu yra ne tik tai, kà siûlomeno rinka ar vadinamoji tradicinë institucijøsistema. Tiesa, tikràjá ðios misijos turiná irárankius dar teks sukurti. EuropeanKunsthalle Cologne koncepcijà numatomaplëtoti keliomis pagrindinëmis kryptimis.Pirmiausia viename Europos universitetø (darnenusprendëme kuriame) bus pradëta rengtinauja Europos meno (nuo 1945-øjø) istorija,atmetanti grynai vakarietiðkà þvilgsná beiatverianti Rytø/Vakarø ir Pietø/Ðiaurës ryðius.Antra, remiantis naujausiomis idëjomis apieðiuolaikinio meno institucijas Europoje (pvz.,Art Angel Londone pavyzdþiu), bus ákurtasprodukcijos centras. Treèioji darbo kryptis –urbanistinë meno institucijø sistemos analizë.Daugelyje miestø ði sistema ið esmës keièiasidël privataus kapitalo átakos miestø plëtrai.Tokia tad teorinë European KunsthalleCologne koncepcijos dalis.LJ: Bet produkcijos dalis nebus vien teorinë,

Ar buvote tokie naivûs ar iðsiblaðkæ, kad galëtumëte tikëtis, jog juodoji rinka ir ðeðëlinës sistemos nëra tokios hierarchiðkos kaip bet kuri kita korporatyvinë oli-m. rugsëjo 23 iki lapkrièio 16 d. Ar galite kà nors pasakyti apie kuratoriø psichologijà (turint galvoje diferenciacijà, kombinatorikas/kuratorius/kilimø valytojas)?

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76 Vilnius, ðizofreniðkas miestas per se, buvo iðrinktas projekto scena? Kiek dar sutapimø yra BMW? Nauji nieko neveikimo bûdai! Kaip, manote, gali funkcionuotigarchija? Kodël niekas nekalba apie alternatyvias ir progresyvias mainø schemas, sumanytas menininkø, teoretikø ir gatvës prekiautojø? Ar tai sutapimas, kad

Carsten Nicolai aka Alva Noto – vienas þy-miausiø garso menininkø, deðimto deðimt-meèio pabaigoje Berlyne ákûræs ilgà prieðis-toræ turëjusià leidybinæ firmà Raster Noton.Eksperimentinë elektronika, garso menas,post-techno ir skaitmeninës estetikos ákvëp-tas post-minimalizmas yra raktaþodþiai,apibûdinantys Carsteno Nicolai veiklos kon-tekstà. Su Carstenu Nicolai kalbëjomës po jokoncerto Vilniuje, elektroninës muzikos festi-valyje Jauna muzika 2005.

Tauutvydass BBajjarrkevièius: Leidybinë firmaRaster Noton ir jà kartu su jumis ákûræ garsomenininkai Frankas Bretschneideris ir OlafasBenderis tapo dalimi avangardo, kuris forma-vo naujàsias eksperimentinës elektronikostendencijas, pasiþymëjusias stipriu identitetuir konceptualiu poþiûriu á garso meno prak-tikas deðimtame deðimtmetyje. Tokiais atve-jais visada ádomu apmàstyti konceptualiuspokyèius. Ar keitësi jûsø solinio projekto AlvaNoto ir Raster Noton idëjos bei identitetasnuo to laiko, kai aktyviai sudalyvavote scenosproverþyje deðimto deðimtmeèio viduryje? Carrsten NNicolaii: Be abejo, mes pasikeitëme.Pradëjome nuo maþø dalykø ir, aiðku, kolpasiekëme tam tikrà auditorijà, praëjonemaþai laiko. Todël paèioje pradþioje svar-biausia buvo sukurti leidybinës firmos iden-titetà, menininkams palikus ðalutiná vaidmená.Sukûrëme keletà serijiniø leidiniø koncepcijøir jas realizavusiø projektø, kvietëmemenininkus. Be abejo, ilgainiui situacijakeitësi – þmonës pradëjo atpaþinti leidybinësfirmos vardà. Nuo to laiko mes kur kas dau-giau dirbame su asmenybëmis. Ir vis dar plë-tojame ir tæsiame serijinius projektus, kuriøpradþioje tebuvo vienas kitas, dabar jø jauturime visà pluoðtà. Viena stipriausiø – raster-post serija, taip pat bendradarbiaujame suIlpo Vaisanenu ið Pan Sonic, kuris turi ákûræsnedidelæ Kangaroo leidybinæ firmà, ir,manau, savo ðalutiná projektà turës RyojiIkeda.TB: Visi þinome menø ir muzikos tendencijas,iðryðkëjusias Rytø Europoje po Berlyno sienosgriûties. Bet galbût dar ádomiau prisiminti,kas buvo prieð tai – mûsø situacija buvo ðiektiek panaði. Jûs klausëtës Laurie Anderson irSteve’o Reicho Chemnitze [gimtajame

Carsteno Nicolai mieste] per Baerno antràjàradijo programà, o vidurinioji lietuviømenininkø karta klausësi tos paèios muzikosper lenkø radijà. Prieigos prie muzikos irinformacijos stygius bei savø iðraiðkos formøporeikis… CN: Be abejo, priëjimas prie muzikos buvolabai ribotas. Bet mums buvo labai ádomu.Nusipirkti muzikos áraðø negalëjome, todëlpersiraðinëjome á kasetes. Tuo metu pagrin-dinë muzikos platinimo ir apsikeitimo japriemonë buvo paprasèiausi kasetiniai mag-netofonai. Nuo to að ir pradëjau – tiesiogperraðinëjau muzikà á kasetes. Bet, manau,tai man padarë didþiulæ átakà ir suteikë puikømuzikiná iðsilavinimà. Frankas Bretschneideris,vienas ið Raster Noton ákûrëjø, tuo metuturëjo leidybinæ kaseèiø firmà. Að vis dar nau-doju kasetinius áraðus savo instaliacijose. Kalbant apie radijà – mes gyvenome artiVakarø Vokietijos, taigi, jø radijo stotys buvolengvai pagaunamos. Bet mes specializa-vomës specifinëje muzikos srityje ir visadaieðkojome kaþko naujo.TB: Galbût bûtent dël to informacijos trûku-mo? Kai ið tiesø trûksta informacijos ar priei-gos prie tam tikro konteksto, savitas poþiûrisatsiranda natûraliai.CN: Taip, manau, ðis trûkumas sukûrë ádomiàsituacijà. Ir að vis dar esu toks pats – tikrainiekada neseku hitø Nr. 1. Að vis dar nuolatþvalgausi naujoviø, neseku paskui didelesminias ir madingus brand’us. Taip, ko gero,viskas ir prasidëjo, taip susiþavëjome muzika.Tuo metu pats muzikos nekûriau, tiesiogeksperimentavau su garsais ir mediumais.Kurti pradëjau tik po Berlyno sienos griûties,kai atsirado produkcijos galimybës. TB: Deðimto deðimtmeèio pradþioje?CN: Taip. Manau, kai atsirado galimybë turëtikompiuterá ir instrumentus.TB: Ar tai buvo naudota, analoginë áranga –tokia patraukli tø laikø eksperimentams?CN: Þinoma, mes bandëm analoginius instru-mentus. Mano pirmas komplektas buvo seniosciliatoriai, prieð tai naudoti ir kà tik iðmestiið universiteto. Turëjau senø osciliatoriø iðRusijos ir Rytø Europos kolekcijà. Ðità árangàvis dar naudoju, be abejo, dabar jau skait-meniniu bûdu, bet toks buvo mano iðeitiestaðkas.

Mums patiko abstrakti garso idëja. Buvaulabai susidomëjæs fizika, garso materija. Iðvienos pusës, plëtojau ðias idëjas savo garsoinstaliacijomis, ið kitos pusës – muzikiniubûdu. Tokios praktikos apogëjus – bendrimûsø projektai su japonø pianistu RyuchiSakamoto (Vrioon, Insen), kur viskas ið tiesøtampa muzikaliai organizuota. TB: Kalbant apie Vrioon – atrodo, susidu-riame su poreikiu praturtinti ir praplëstimuzikalumo, paremto koncentruota minima-listine estetika, formas. Patiri stiprø ðvieþumopojûtá ir sakai: „Niekas iki ðiol to nedarë“. Taisuteikia labai erdviðkas ir tuo paèiumuzikalias patirtis. Kaip priëjote bûtent ikitokio muzikalumo? CN: Mane visada domino natûralûs instru-mentai. Negroju jokiu klasikiniu instrumentu.Paprastai naudoju gana techniðkai orientuo-tus garsus, vadinamus ritmais ir daþniais.Gavæs pasiûlymà padaryti tuos remiksus,turëjau daug galimybiø. Atradau grynus pia-nino sample’us – tai yra kaþkas, ko neáma-noma sukurti kompiuteriu. Buvo ádomu, kaiptarpusavyje derës minimali elektronika ir kla-sikinis stiprø pagrindà turintis instrumentas. TB: O taip pat tradicinio naudojimo konotaci-jos, kai turi lauþyti standartus? CN: Man tai nebuvo sunku, nes neturiuypatingo iðsilavinimo ðioje srityje.TB: Kaip ir daugelis eksperimentinës muzikoskûrëjø. Ðiuo atveju ádomi profesionalumosamprata. Daugelis eksperimentinës muzikoskûrëjø lauþë standartus, bet eksperimentinisjudëjimas yra priëjæs ribà, kai, anotChristiano Fenneszo, „grynai“ eksperi-mentinë muzika nebeegzistuoja. Nes atsiradonauji standartai, nauja kokybë ir naujipoþiûrio taðkai. Taigi galiausiai mes turimepermàstytà profesionalumo sàvokà. RyuchiSakamoto labai subtiliai ir profesionaliaiklasikine prasme valdo instrumentà, o jûspridedate naujà, taip pat labai preciziðkà irprofesionalià to muzikalumo, kuris vis darvadinamas „eksperimentiniu“, kokybæ.CN: Taip, manau, eksperimentinës muzikossrityje kiekvienas yra savo paties mokytojas, irtai pakankamai unikalu. Elektroninës muzikossrityje dirbi su specifiniu garsu – jis pasidarosvarbus pats savaime. Man buvo ádomu su-lieti ðiuos du – klasikiná ir unikaløjá – garso

Reportaþas

Tautvydo Bajarkevièiaus interviu suCarstenu Nicolai Vilniuje

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TB: Aèiû uþ interviu ir áspûdingà koncertà. Tautvydas Bajarkevièius yra garso menininkasir meno kritikas, gyvenantis Vilniuje.

Carstenas Nicolai yra garso menininkas, taippat kuria instaliacijas, susijusias su áraðø tech-

nologijos istorija ir eksperimentiniais moks-lais. Nicolai instaliacija bus eksponuojama

didelëje keliaujanèioje parodoje Ðiuolaikiniomeno centre 2006 metø pabaigoje.

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Larso Bang Larseno interviu su Henriko VIII þmonomis apie Populizmà

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traktavimo bûdus ir suteikti erdvæ jø koegzis-tavimui.Ryuchi Sakamoto yra tikras muzikantas irkompozitorius. Savæs niekada taip nepava-dinèiau. Kai Christianas Fenneszas sako, kadeksperimentinë muzika daugiau neegzistuo-ja, manau, jis turi omenyje, kad eksperi-mentinë muzika yra tapusi „normalia“, t.y.priimama, kad jos klausomasi nebegalvojant,jog „tai nëra muzika“ ar „tai pernelygneáprasta“. TB: Tai vis dar kartais vadinama „garso tero-rizmu“…CN: Þinoma, elektroninëje muzikoje yraintensyvumo. Bet gerai, kad pradedame taipriimti normaliai ir matyti eksperimentinæ irklasikinæ muzikà viename lygmenyje. Nebëratokios grieþtos klasifikacijos.TB: Jûsø kontekstas daþnai siejamas su nau-juoju muzikiniu minimalizmu. Kai kuriuosejûsø darbuose ir idëjose jauèiamas siekis mi-nimalizuoti, vedantis prie koncepcijos „ma-þiau yra daugiau“ – nereikalingø, pertekliniøelementø eliminavimo prasme. Tai yra irRaster Noton koncepcijos dalis, kuri atsispindinet pavadinime – vokiðkas „no ton“ reiðkia„be garso“. Atsimenam jûsø dëmesá ato-mams, tuðèiai erdvei tarp dviejø pikseliø.Skaitmeninë estetika suteikia daugybæ gali-mybiø konceptualizuoti minimalizmà.CN: Kartais að ðiek tiek skeptiðkai þiûriu áminimalizmo idëjà. Nes tai, kà mes darome,galima vadinti minimalizmu dël vienosprieþasties – mes bandome atkreipti dëmesá ágarsus, kuriø normaliomis sàlygomis negali-ma iðgirsti. Tai reiðkia, kad turi minimalizuoti.Noriu padaryti viskà kiek ámanoma ðvariau,nekreipdamas dëmesio á bereikalingusdalykus. Toks poþiûris kur kas labiaufunkcionalus nei minimalistinis, t.y. nëra viensiekis tiesiog þaisti minimaliais elementais. Iðtiesø mes norime iðsireikðti minimaliais ele-mentais, apnuogindami patá garsà. Èia slypitam tikras atvirumas. Palyginèiau savokûrinius su architektûra. Mano muzika labaipanaði á pastatà, kuris nëra uþbaigtas – egzis-tuoja tik pagrindinës struktûros. Ir nieko dau-giau. Tik grindys ir kolonos. TB: Bet, atrodo, viskas ðiek tiek pasikeitë –duomenø tëkmë ir intensyvi skaitmeninëaplinka átakoja ir skaitmeninæ estetikà. Taipatyrëme ir ðiandieniniame koncerte, kurisbuvo labai intensyvus, kaip savotiðka skait-meniniø bangø matrica.CN: Taip, tai vienas ið akcentø: pastaruojumetu plëtoju estetikà, tyrinëjanèià paèiàduomenø struktûrà. Taip atsiduriu prieðaisskaitmeniná instrumentà – kas jis yra, su kuoað ið tiesø dirbu. Kai sukuriu „nulá“ – tai

duomenys, tai tekstinis atminties vienetas,kai sukuriu tylà – tai taip pat duomenys,kurie struktûroje yra triukðmingi. Pasidarogana tanku, o tai taip pat apibûdina mûsølaikø greitá. Fiziná greitá, tarsi mes ið tiesøjudëtume duomenø tëkmës greièiu. Bet, manau, panaudodamas garsà vis dargali gana stipriai forsuoti patirtis – vis darámanoma viskà pagreitinti. Man asmeniðkaiðis laikas yra intensyvëjanèio greièio muzikojelaikas. Be abejo,mes labai grei-tai prie topriprantame.Tonai intensyvë-ja, ritmai greitë-ja – viskas dëlintensyviøgyvenimoritmø. Ypaè kaiesi ið Rytø – iðtikrøjø þinai, kàreiðkia didëjan-tis visuomenësgyvenimo tem-pas. TB: Prisimenujûsø áspûdþiusapie skirtingaspatirtis þiûrintTarkovskio fil-mus. Laikopoþiûriu áþvel-giu paralelætarp Tarkovskiofilmø ir tyliøjøFranciscoLopezo arBernhardoGunteriomicrosound sti-liaus kompozici-jø. Jie laikosikonceptualiosnuostatosiðskleisti garsuslaike ir neleistijiems iðnyktiðiuolaikiniuoseintensyvumuo-se. Atrodo, atsiranda daugybë galimø prieigø– Ryuchi Sakamoto ir jûsø bendradarbiavimorezultatas – taip pat gana meditatyvi muzika. CN: Taip, be abejo, mes ilgimës tylos ir,reaguodami prieðingais bûdais, bandomesulëtinti savo patirtis. Bet dël Tarkovskio –Stalkeris atrodë labai lëtas prieð deðimt metø,bet dabar jis atrodo neátikëtinai lëtas: negaliupatikëti, kad galëjau já taip atidþiai þiûrëti.

Tada pradedi galvoti, kad mûsø supratimasapie kinà visiðkai pasikeitë. Post-matricoskarta ið kino tikisi visai ko kito. Manau, taibuvo viena ið prieþasèiø, dël ko pastebëjau,kad lëtume, be abejo, slypi tam tikra kokybë. TB: Galbût ðiame kontekste galime kalbëtiapie specifiná poþiûrá á garsà jûsø garso insta-liacijose, kur jis labiau orientuotas á erdvinespatirtis?CN: Garso instaliacijos paremtos kitokiu

iðeities taðku. Performansas yra labai ribotaslaike. Instaliacijos iðsklidusios kur kas ilges-niame laike ir turi suveikti bet kuriuomomentu, áþengus lankytojui. Tikriausiainiekada nesuteikèiau instaliacijoms tokiosdinamikos ir intensyvumo, koká paprastaipasiekiu savo performansuose. Èia kur kasdaugiau fizikos, kai að stengiuosi susikoncen-truoti ties paèiu garso fenomenu.

atpaþinti tai, kas uþdrausta, ið kokio poþiûrio taðko? Kodël jûs sàmoningai atsisakëte átraukti koká nors „specifiná“ BMW turiná á parodà? Ar Sony neiðreiðkë ne-visuomenë, kurioje didelë dalis þmoniø niekada nedirbs? Kas ðiandien draudþiama? Kiek laiko tai draudþiama? Kaip mûsø vakarietiðkoje visuomenëje galima

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vienos rûðies meno akcijas. Todël ávairini veik-là. Susidoroji su prisiimta rizika. Þinau,pasakytum kitaip. Sakytum, kad tau ðvelniosformos ðizofrenija. Kad tavyje slypi keliosasmenybës. Kad esi fotografas, bet dar ir DJ.Redaguoji þurnalà, esi leidëjas, bet dar irorganizuoji vakarëlius. Juose fotografuojiþmones. Surengi vakarëlá þurnalo pristatymoproga, leidi þurnalus su vakarëliø liûtø nuo-traukomis, surengi vakarëlá ir pats jamedidþëjauji. Turi didþëjø grupæ, todël pervakarëlá pats gali vaikðtinëti, kalbëtis suþmonëmis ir teirautis, ar jie nenorëtø pub-likuotis tavo þurnale; leidi CD, pristatai juosvakarëlyje, áraðai CD-romà su þmoniø nuo-traukomis, ádedi já á savo þurnalà, nori, kadtavo skaitytojai pasiklausytø tavo muzikos,nori, kad vakarëliø liûtai skaitytø tavo teks-tus, á savo vakarëlius kvieti raðanèius tavoþurnalui, ið fotografijø darai instaliacijas.Darai interviu su sutiktais þmonëmis, daraiinterviu su tais, su kuriais norëtum susitikti,sutiktiesiems papasakoji apie savo þurnalà.Skrajutes, informuojanèias apie tavovakarëlius, platini baruose, kuriuose susitinkidël interviu. Áraðus perki blusø turguose, osavo vakarëliø skrajutes platini baruose, ákuriuos uþeini po blusø turgaus, kuri video,fiksuojanèius, kaip naikini áraðus, pirktusblusø turguje, iðvaduoji savo ðalá nuo blogosmuzikos, rodai tà video galerijoje ir didþëjaujiatidaryme, á kurá kvieti þmones, raðiusius tavoþurnalui, mëgaujiesi vakarëliu bei dþiaugiesifotografuojamas. Kvieti kitus DJ padidþëjautisu tavim, bûni MC, o kaþkas kitas – DJ,pasveikini þmones, susirinkusius á vakarëlá,supaþindini juos tarpusavyje. Tu esimenininkas ir esi mediatorius, tu miksuojiáraðus ir nori, kad þmonës miksuotøsi, tunetgi pats miksuoji nuotraukas þmoniø, kurienorëtumei kad susimiksuotø. Tu bendrauji suþmonëmis, kuriuos fotografuoji, jie kvieèiatave á savo vakarëlius, kuriuose su kitaisþmonëmis kalbiesi apie fotografijà. Tu gaminimarðkinëlius su savo vardu, kai kurie juos

neðioja, tu priverti juos prisiekti, kad jie dëvëstuos marðkinëlius eidami á vakarëlius, kuriuo-se tavæs nebus. Esi visur ir priverti þmonesdomëtis, kur tu esi. Esi namuose, dirbi lap-topu, nuo palikto taðko tæsi visus savo elek-troninius pokalbius, informuoji þmones apiesavo naujus projektus, tu kuri projektus nuo-latos. Paskambini, uþsisakai bilietus, iðsikvietitaksi, nuo taksi iki traukinio neði du ðimtussvarø svorio ávairiø medþiagø. Dirbi skirtin-gose vietose. Judi. Judi ið vieno miesto á kità,ið vienos ðalies á kità. Susigauni kità taksi, ðiektiek uþtrunka, kol susiorientuoji Stambule. Tufotografuoji ir praðai kitø fotografuoti taip,kaip tu nori. Apie þurnalo pristatymàpraneðanèias skrajutes platini klubuose, ku-riuose linksminiesi, dalini skrajutes, informuo-janèias apie vakarëlá, kurá rengi vienameknygyne savo þurnalo pristatymo proga, skel-bi informacijà apie kità to paties þurnalo pri-statymà kitame knygyne, dëkojisusirinkusiems, tarpusavyje supaþindiniþmones, su kuriais darei interviu, pakvieti

juos á vakarëlá. Tu organizuoji parodas, kvietiþmones pristatyti savo darbus, organizuojiatidarymà, apie parodà informuoji þinia-sklaidà. Prisistatai kuo kitu nei esi, o bûnitoks, koká save pristatai. Tu apsimeti ir esinuoðirdus. Tu dainuoji. Darai tyrimà apiesvingà. Fotografuoji fotografijas, þurnaløvirðelius dedi á savo þurnalà, kuri dainøkoverius. Tu esi menininkas, o tai reiðkia, kadbûtø neblogai, jei uþ visus tavo daromusdalykus bûtø mokama. Tu kreipiesi dëlparamos, bandai gauti stipendijas, kalbinimalonius þmones, kurie galëtø paskolintipinigø, turi padëjëjà, þinantá kaip gauti

pinigø ið þmoniø, kurie nëra malonûs. Tuorganizuoji vakarienes þmonëms, kuriuossupaþindinai, vakarienës metu aptari tolimes-nius leidinio planus. Praðai þmoniø paraðytiapie tavo kûrinius, papasakoji jiems kaipdirbi, viskà jiems parodai. Paaiðkini esminiusjauno menininko gyvenimo principus. Kad tuesi menininkas ir tai reiðkia, jog nedarai todël pinigø. Kai kas taip mano. Ir tai yra puikidingstis uþ niekà tau nemokëti. Galø gale tupats ádedi pinigus á projektus, kuriuos kitirodys savo muziejuose, kunsthalëse, savoparodinëse erdvëse ir galerijose. Taigi, tu esiinvestuotojas. Skolini pinigus, kuriø niekastau negràþins. Finansiðkai rizikuoji.Spekuliuoji savimi kaip meno vertybe. Esiprekeivis. Negali visø savo pinigø investuoti ávienos rûðies meno akcijas. Todël ávairini veik-là. Susidoroji su prisiimta rizika. Þinai, að taipasakyèiau kitaip. Að sakyèiau, kad tau ðvel-nios formos ðizofrenija. Tavyje slypi keliosasmenybës. Tu esi DJ, bet taip pat irfotografas. Tu organizuoji vakarëlius, bet turiir rimtesnæ asmenybës pusæ, kuri leidþia þur-nalus. Juokauju. Vakarëliø metu daliniþmonëms nuotraukas. Þurnalus laikai tikdingstimi vakarëliams – ir vël juokauju, – kur-damas þurnalus bendradarbiauji su vakarëliøliûtais, rengi vakarëlá, o DJ yra merrrgina. Yradaug merrrginø. Be perstojo lankaisi Femmeswith Fatal Breaks vakarëliuose ir esi toksdrovus, kad net negali uþsisakyti gërimo, eininamo su dviem ðimtais svarø svorio CD, par-duodi juos kitame vakarëlyje, besilinksmi-nanèiøjø fotografijas áraðai á CD-romus, ku-riuos ádedi á savo þurnalà, raðanèius tavo þur-nalui kvieti á savo vakarëlius, fotografuojiinstaliacijas, jau neminint, ko tikiesi ið savoskaitytojø ir klausytojø. Susitinki su þmonëmisdël interviu, interviu yra alibi, kad galëtumeisusitikti su þmonëmis, sutiktiesiems pasakojiapie savo vakarëliø gyvenimà. Skrajutes,informuojanèias apie vakarëlius, platini ba-ruose, kuriuose susitinki dël interviu. Kai perstipriai lyja, kad eitum á blusø turgø, áraðusperki padëvëtø daiktø parduotuvëse,vakarëliø skrajutes iðplatini bare, kuriame poapsipirkimo gauni puodelá skanios karðtosarbatos, video, kuriuose fiksuoji, kaip naikiniáraðus, pirktus padëvëtø daiktø parduotuvëjearba blusø turguje, parduodi muziejui,iðvaduoji savo ðalá nuo jos paèios blogo sko-nio, rodai video galerijoje ir didþëjaujidernisaþe ar finisaþe, nesvarbu kaip ten jisvadinamas, kur sukvieti þmones, kuriefotografuoja ir raðo apie tavo þurnalà.Norëtum, kad tavo bièiuliai didþëjai pailsëtø,dabar tavo eilë, todël paimi mikrafà irpadëkoji þmonëms, susirinkusiems á vakarëlá.

10

Nuo ððakknø iiki ddanngauus

Blankia pavasario saule apðviestojeFrankfurto Turgaus aikðtëje Larsas BangLarsenas kalbëjosi su menininkø grupeHenriko VIII þmonos apie jø darbus, sukurtusprojekto Populizmas parodoms. Populizmas(beveik) vienu metu 2005 m. balandþio –geguþës mën. prasidëjo Vilniuje, Osle,Amsterdame ir Frankfurte. Henriko VIIIþmonos – Rachell Dagnall, Lucy Skaer, PerasSanderis, Sirko Knüpfer, Simonas Polli irRobertas Grieve’as – ðioms keturiomsvietoms sukûrë skirtingus, taèiau susijusiuskûrinius: Tatlino bokðto fragmentà, videoin-staliacijà, pagamintà keliaujant tarp ðiøketuriø miestø, ir àþuoliná vargonø vamzdá,sutvirtinusá ÐMC lankytojø tikëjimo jausmà.

Larrsass BBanng LLarrsenass: Vargonø vamzdis,pavadintas 32 pëdos = nuo 1730 metøaugusio nago ilgis = 8Hz / subgarsas, sklei-dþia garsà, sunkiai pakeliamà þmogaus klau-sai. Tada smegenys bando ásijausti á ðias sub-garsines vibracijas, kurios sukelia svaigulá, irtikriausiai, pasiklausius pakankamai ilgai, ga-lima pradëti haliucinuoti – o gal net matytiDievà! Tam tikra prasme ðiuos vargonus gali-ma bûtø pavadinti proto-populistinepriemone. Kodël juos rodote bûtentLietuvoje?Henriko VVIII þþmonos: Tai karðtai tikinti katali-kiðka ðalis. Vargonø tradicija èia áaugusi irásitvirtinusi realybës forma. Ðiuo poþiûriumûsø vargonø vamzdis atsiduria anapusreligijos ir komentuoja ne tik jos raiðkà, bet irrepresyvumà. Taigi, èia varþomasi tarpbaþnyèios ir sovietmeèio Lietuvos istorijos,kurias mëginame þenklinti. Þinoma, svarbu irtai, kad ði vargonø dalis iðgauna þemiausiàregistro garsà, nurodantá á paranormaliø irekstrasensiniø reiðkiniø sritá… tai lyg ir po-pulizmo kalambûras, reiðkinio, kuris visuometpasirenka þemiausià galimà bendravardiklá.Ðis daiktas veikia ir kaip atrakcionas arreginys. Jis atspindi ir jo gamybos procesà:ðiø vargonø gamintojas turëjo uþmegzti dau-gybæ kontaktø, kad iðsiaiðkintø, kaip juos

pagaminti, nes tokio dydþio vargonøvamzdþio dar nëra buvæ. Europos vargonøgamintojø bendruomenë yra nedidelë, taèiaudabar visi vienas kità þino, nes á juos visusbuvo kreiptasi patarimo!LBL: Ágyvendindami Tatlino bokðto projektàjûs siûlote galø gale pastatyti tà bokðtà, kuráVladimiras Tatlinas 1920 metais skyrë IIIKomunistø Internacionalui, taèiau jisniekuomet nebuvo pastatytas. Gal, rodydamijá kaip savo instaliacijas ar skulptûras vieðosevietose, per kokius deðimt metø pastatysitebokðtà tokiø masteliø, kokie buvo sumanyti?Kaip þmonës Vilniuje reagavo á tokià bolðe-vikinio meno istorijos revizijà?H8Þ: Tokios politinës reakcijos, kokiostikëjomës, nebuvo. Kalbëjomës su ðalieskultûros ministro pavaduotoju apie 1991-øjøtelevizijos bokðto ávykius Vilniuje. Jis mûsødarbà suprato kaip skulptûrà vieðai erdvei,kuri galëtø papuoðti kai kurias komplikuotasmiesto vietas. Ið principo ðiuo projektunorëjome iðryðkinti santyká tarp meno ir val-stybës. Vëliau bus ákurta interneto svetainë irprojekto plakatai bus iðklijuoti Londonometro, o technikos universitetams bus pasiû-lyta sugalvoti, kaip statiná sukonstruoti.Surinkæ tokià informacijà, norëtume pastatytipagrindiná bokðto gabalà. Manome, kad galøgale pamatysime fragmentuotà ir korpo-ratyviai atrodanèià Tatlino bokðto versijà, tin-kanèià 1 % bet kokios ðalies valdþios! Ðiuopoþiûriu ji dokumentuos ir atspindës ðiuo-laikines finansavimo strategijas… Tikimës,kad Tatlino bokðto projektas taip pat galitapti platforma þmoniø komentarø ir kritikosapykaitai. Kai darai panaðius dalykus, norinenori esi priverstas atsiminti, kad egzistavotokia internacionalo svajonë, kad buvopuoselëjama utopija. Kodël dabar nebëratokiø svajoniø? Taigi, Tatlino bokðto projektasvienu metu yra menininko vaidmensvisuomenëje romantizavimas ir deromantiza-vimas, nes jame slypi ásiðaknijæs idealizmas, o,kita vertus, jis atskleidþia þmoniø poþiûrá irvisas technines, biurokratines bei ekonomineskliûtis, su kuriomis susiduriame ágyvendinda-mi projektà.

LBL: Videoinstaliacijoje Misteris Isterijapolitinei populizmo realybei taikote psichia-triná isterijos apibûdinimà. H8W: Kalbëjome apie tai, kaip galima bûtøapibrëþti antitezæ populizmui – kaip ir kadatu nesi populistas? Tada susidûrëme su realy-bës ir to, kas nëra realybë, apibrëþimo prob-lema, atvedusia prie tokiø temø kaipbeprotybë, nusikalstamumas ir kintantysisterijos apibrëþimai. Senovës graikamsIsterija buvo viena ið deiviø, o XIX a. medici-nos moksle tapo moteriðka liga, dar kartàapibrëþusia moterá pagal ankstesná kliedëjimoir nenuovokumo modelá kaip iracionalià bûty-bæ. Ðiuolaikines isterijos apraiðkas galimavadinti simptomais be prieþasties arbaatotrûkiu tarp bendros nuomonës ir individu-alaus suvokimo. Taigi, visos vietos, kurioseMisteris Isterija buvo filmuojamas – Berlynolaikraðèio redakcijos ofisas, Berlyno gimdymonamai, Vilniaus policijos komisariatas irBerlyno akcijø birþa, – siejasi su tam tikrurealybës paslankumu. Tai vietos „minkðtojerealybëje“, tokioje kaip þiniasklaida arbabirþa, bûdingos tai kapitalizmo daliai, kurispekuliuoja daiktø vertëmis. Policijos komi-sariatas tikriausiai nëra tokia jau „minkðta“realybës dalis, greièiau prieðingai – vieta dog-mos átvirtinimui bei konflikto vieta…Gimdymo namai – vieta, kur vyksta kartørealybës poslinkiai, vieta kaþkam, kas atsiran-da dar be realybës. Ið principo tai yra pirmi-ausiai pamatoma vieta. LBL: Visi trys projektai sukasi apie tikëjimo irásitikinimo temas ir kiekvienas turi keletàsluoksniø. Ar kaþkuris ið tø sluoksniø susijæssu jûsø paèiø patirtimi?H8W: Menui naudojame áprastus ir kasdie-niðkus dalykus, kuriuos paverèiame neápras-tais. Ir – tikimës, nenuskambës pernelygsaldþiai – ieðkome þmogiðkumo institucijose,þiûrime, kiek jos gali leisti sau nukrypti, dary-damos paðalinius dalykus.

Larsas Bang Larsenas yra parodos Populizmaskuratorius drauge su Cristina Ricupero ir

Nicolausu Schafhausenu.

tribucija“ – kà tai reiðkia? Ar buvote ásivëlæ á kokià nors neteisëtà veiklà savo tiriamojo darbo metu, prieð prasidedant parodai? Kas pabuèiavo varlæ? Ar reali pa-pasitenkinimo, kad trienalës leidinyje buvo iðspausdintos Soni ir Shanel reklamos? „Nedideli kiekiai, tiesioginis darbas su kontaktais, niðinë rinkodara ir superdis-

Menass, ppopulizmass iir ddemokrattija: III ddallis

Tu esi menininkas ir tai reiðkia, kad nedaraito dël pinigø. Kai kas taip mano. Ir tai puiki

dingstis uþ niekà tau nemokëti. Galø gale tupats ádedi pinigus á projektus, kuriuos kitirodys savo muziejuose, kunsthalëse, savoparodinëse erdvëse ir galerijose. Taigi, esi

investuotojas. Skolini pinigus, kuriø niekastau negràþins. Finansiðkai rizikuoji.Spekuliuoji savimi kaip meno vertybe. Esiprekeivis. Negali visø savo pinigø investuoti á

Lietuvoje

Dieteris Lesage’as apie menà ir vakarëlius

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13

Paèiame Paryþiaus centre, Marais rajoneásikûrusioje naujoje galerijojeschleicher+lange pastaruoju metu sëkmingaibuvo pristatyta keleto ðiuolaikiniø Lietuvosmenininkø kûryba. Arûno Gudaièio, KristinosInèiûraitës ir Gintaro Makarevièiauspasirodymà privaèioje Paryþiaus galerijoje ga-lima vadinti ðuoliu á tarptautinæ meno rinkà.Kadangi Lietuvoje meno rinkos infrastruktûradar nesusiformavusi, tai gali bûti naujoLietuvos meno integracijos etapo pradþia.Apie tai ir apie meno sistemos plëtràLietuvoje 2005 metø geguþæ kalbëjosiArûnas Gudaitis ir Kristina Inèiûraitë.

Arûnass GGudaiitis: Kûriniai ne visuomet ásigyja-mi tarpininkaujant galerijai. Pavyzdþiui, poparodos meno leidinyje pasirodþiusi pub-likacija su kûrinio reprodukcija yra paskati-nusi vienà kolekcionieriø susisiekti su manimielektroniniu paðtu. Nors ir tokiu atveju svar-bus vaidmuo tenka kûriná parodþiusiai institu-cijai, parduoti kûrinius galima ne tik pergalerijas. Tiesa, jos kryptingai ta linkme dirba. Kristina IInèiûraiitë: Kaip bebûtø, svarbu, kadgalerininkai ið Paryþiaus pradeda domëtisLietuvos meno scena, atvyksta á Vilniø,renkasi menininkus – atsiveria naujas kon-tekstas, á kurá galime patekti, kuriame galimepristatyti savo produkcijà. Að visø pirma verti-nu ne komercinius galerijos privalumus, bettai, kad darbus galiu parodyti Paryþiaus meno

visuomenei ir plësti ryðius meno pasaulyje. AG: Ir patys galerininkai akcentavo, kadstengsis pristatyti menininkus, kuriø darbaidar nerodyti Paryþiaus kontekste. Tiesiogsveikintina galerijos iniciatyva plësti menorinkos geografijà. Galime tik spëlioti, kodëljie pasirinko bûtent Vilniø. Gal ir dël to, kadpatys yra vokieèiai, savo veiklà pradëjæBerlyne – sociokultûrinis palikimas beipasaulëþiûra turbût turi átakos renkantismenininkus.KI: Menininkui ið mûsø regiono daþniausiaisunku tikëtis bûti pakviestam á galerijas,kurios jau susiformavusios ir turi aiðkius pri-oritetus. Daugiau galimybiø pasirodyti nau-jose galerijose, kurios tik formuoja savo ganaliberalø veidà. Net patys schleicher+langegalerininkai yra atkreipæ dëmesá, kad jø gale-rija iðsiskiria ið kitø galerijø tarpo Paryþiuje jauvien dël to, kad ji priklauso ne prancûzams irtarp kvieèiamø menininkø nëra vietiniø.Pradinis etapas ðiek tiek rizikingas keliomisprasmëmis: konkretus prancûziðkas kontek-stas, galerija ir pakviesti skirtingø regionømenininkai – kaip visa tai susistyguos?Galerijos gyvavimo pradþioje apie tai galimetik spëlioti. AG: Laikui bëgant iðsikristalizuos aiðkesni kri-terijai – galerininkas gali uþimti vienà ar kitàpozicijà, kuri ir apspræs galerijos veidà. Visvien nebus iðvengta tam tikrø komerciniøinteresø. Nes kitu atveju bûtø tiesiog sugaið-

tas laikas, veltui investuota daug energijos irlëðø.KI: „Kapitalas ateina ten, kur jo reikia, irpasilieka ten, kur gerai priþiûrimas“, –garsaus ekonomisto ir bankininko WalterioWristono pastebëjimas tinka ir meno rinkai,kuri auga kaip ant mieliø. Bûtent menorinkos augimas keièia tradicinës galerijossuvokimà, jos apibrëþimà. Paryþiuje, Bazelyje,Londone, Madride, Niujorke ir kituose di-dþiuosiuose miestuose vyksta meno mugës,kuriose dalyvauja nesuskaièiuojamas kiekisgalerijø. Skubama pirkti-parduoti. AnotNiujorko universiteto profesoriaus RobertoStorro, tokie renginiai jau sietini ne suapþiûrëjimu, bet su þymëjimu (spotting), opaþinimo dþiaugsmà èia keièia susiþavëjimasið pirmo þvilgsnio. Ðie procesai, matyt,koreguoja net paèià meno ateitá. AG: Þinoma, meno rinkoje taip pat galiojaverslo principai. Jei darbe áþvelgi komercinæsëkmæ, tau kaip galerininkui nelabai svarbu,kokia bus reakcija ið kritikø ar meno instituci-jø pusës. KI: Galioja ir tam tikri meno rinkos stereotipai– ne vienas galerininkas yra minëjæs, kad kurkas sunkiau parduoti videodarbus nei tradi-ciniø vaizduojamojo meno rûðiø kûrinius –populiarià maþo formato tapybà ar pieðinius. AG: Viskas dësninga: materialiame pasaulyjeparduodami labai materialûs daiktai. Tik kylakitas klausimas: ar perkamas menininko var-

12

Svetur

Arûno Gudaièio ir Kristinos Inèiûraitëspokalbis apie Paryþiø

Esi remediatorius, remiksuoji áraðus ir ið naujonori, kad þmonës remiksuotøsi, tu net remik-suoji fotografijas, tas, kuriose esantysþmonës, ið naujo norëtumei, kad remik-suotøsi. Tu refotografuoji þmones, su kuriaisið naujo kalbiesi ir vël ið naujo kalbiesi sukitais þmonëmis apie fotografijà. Ðtai tiemarðkinëliai su tavo vardu, o ðtai ir tas mielasvaikinas, kurá norëjai priversti prisiekti, kaddëvës tik tavo marðkinëlius eidamas ávakarëlius be tavæs. Tavæs niekur nëra irþmonës priversti domëtis, kur tu galëtumeibûti. Nesi namie, tavo autoatsakiklis atsakouþ tas kelias asmenybes, kurios tu esi. Kà tikiðlipai, susigavai taksi, nuo taksi iki oro uostoneðiesi penkiasdeðimt svarø svorio medþiagø.Iðskrendi ið Berlyno. Greit sugráði. Nuolatoskaþkà veiki. Susirandi kità taksi, netrukussusiorientuoji, jau gaudaisi Stambule.Fotografuoji ir praðai kitø fotografuoti taip,kaip tu nori. Su tais, kuriø praðai nufotogra-fuoti, darai interviu, interviu áraðus tran-skribuoji ir spausdini savo þurnale. Kalbintusþmones pasikvieti á þurnalo pristatymà, skra-jutes su informacija apie savo vakarëlius dali-ni per ðá pristatymà viename knygyne, skra-jutes su informacija apie savo þurnalo pri-statymà dalini klube, kuriame linksminiesi,savo vakarëlio metu skelbi kità vakarëlá,apgailestauji, kad kai kurie þmonës negalëjoateiti, dalini adresus, prisiþadi atsiøsti pakvie-timus. Organizuojamose parodose medijuojitarp þiniasklaidos ir menininkø, tariesi dëlinterviu, á atidarymà kvieti kritikus, renki pa-

rodos kritikos straipsniø kopijas, siunti jasparodoje dalyvaujantiems menininkams.Prisistatai kitokiu nei esi, o esi toks, kokiusave pristatai. Apsimeti ir esi nuoðirdus.Viskas kinta. Domiesi karine tematika.Fotografuoji kareivius, fotografuojimenininkus. Tu pats esi menininkas ir taireiðkia, kad bûtø neblogai gauti pinigø uþvisus daromus dalykus. Kartais tave paremia,puiku, jei gauni stipendijà, paþásti tà malonøvaikinà, kuris tau paskolintø dar pinigø, tebe-turi padëjëjà, kuris sugeba gauti pinigø iðþmoniø, kurie pasirodo besà labai labai blogiþmonës. Darai vakarienes þmonëms, kuriønebereikia vienø su kitais paþindinti,vakarienës metu aptari publikacijos planus, onuo praeito karto dar tebëra uþsilikæ ðiek tiekvyno. Ir vël jø praðai paraðyti apie tavo kûry-bà. Jie jau þino, kaip tu dirbi ir kà reiðkia bûtimenininku, kai yra tokiø, kurie galvoja, kaddarai tai ne dël pinigø. Taip, þinoma. Puikidingstis tau në velnio nemokëti uþ visa tai,kà padarai. Galø gale tu, bûdamas suðiktumenininku, ádedi suðiktus pinigus á projektus,kuriuos kiti rodys savo suðiktuose muziejuo-se, savo ðûdinose kunsthalëse, savo suknis-tose parodø erdvëse ir mëðlinose galerijose.Vadinasi, esi investuotojas. Skolini pinigus,kuriø niekas tau niekada negràþins. Imiesisumautos finansinës rizikos. Spekuliuoji savi-mi kaip „meno vertybe“. Gal nematai? Esiprekeivis! Negali sukiðti visø savo pinigø ávienos rûðies meno akcijas. Na kà, tuomet,kaip jie pavadintø, tu „ávairini savo veiklà“.

Susidoroji su rizika, kurios imiesi. Nuostabu.Pasakytum kitaip. Galit man nepasakoti.Sakot, man labai nemaloni ðizofrenijosforma. Kad manyje slypi kelios asmenybës.Na ir kà? Taip ir yra. O kà, anksèiau nepaste-bëjot? Að filosofas, bet dar ir raðytojas. Esuþurnalo redaktorius ir kvieèiu þmones raðytitam þurnalui. Kartais dirbu su menininkaisprie projektø, uþsibaigianèiø parodomis,kuriose susitinku þmones, praðanèius paraðytiapie jø kûrybà. Kartais padarau tai beuþmokesèio. Þinau, kaip ðiais laikais sunkumenininkui verstis. Juk darote tai ne dëlpinigø. Kai kas taip mano. Ir tai puiki dingstisuþ niekà nemokëti. Galø gale tu pats ádedipinigus á projektus, kuriuos kiti rodys savomuziejuose, kunsthallëse, savo parodinëseerdvëse ir galerijose. Taigi, esi investuotojas.Skolini pinigus, kuriø niekas tau negràþins.Finansiðkai rizikuoji. Spekuliuoji savimi kaipmeno vertybe. Esi prekeivis. Negali visø savopinigø investuoti á vienos rûðies meno akcijas.Todël ávairini savo veiklà. Susidoroji su prisiim-ta rizika. Tu pasakytum kitaip. Þinau, bet aðnevartoju keiksmaþodþiø. Pasakytum, kadtau ðvelnios formos ðizofrenija. Kad tavyjeslypi kelios asmenybës. Manau, kad suprantu.

Dieterio Lesage’o paskaita, skaityta ÐMCbalandþio 6 d. Publikuojama antroji paskaitos

dalis, visas tekstas: Dieter Lesage, Vertoogover verzet. Politiek in tijden van globalise-

ring, Amsterdam/Antwerpen:Meulenhoff/Manteau, 2004, p. 289-293.

jamos temos, pavyzdþiui, juodosios rinkos, magija ar okultizmas, gali bûti kliûtimi vertinant tokius Baltijos regiono siekius kaip atvirumas, skaidrumas irroda arba kuris nors kitas jûsø naudotas formatas suteiks juodajai rinkai galimybiø ar erdviø jame egzistuoti? Ar varlë tapo princu? Ar manote, kad jûsø nagrinë-

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Ðiaurës Rytø Europos dalimi. KI: Kaip ásivaizduoji savo ateitá?AG: Visa ko kaita ir judëjimas ágauna visdidesná pagreitá. Keièiasi gerbûvio suvokimas.Tos problemos, kurias turëjome prieð penkismetus, ðiandien nebeaktualios, á daugeládalykø jau galime þiûrëti istoriðkai. KI: Lietuvoje socialiniai, ekonominiai ir

kultûriniai skirtumai maþëja lyginant su kito-mis Europos sàjungos ðalimis. Tolimoje ateity-je, kai mûsø ekonomika dar labiau sutvirtës,turbût vis sunkiau pastebësime kartø skirtu-mus, nes neiðvengsime intensyvesnësmigracijos. Lietuvoje greièiausiai atsiras visdaugiau imigrantø. Kraujas bus sumaiðytas.

Daugiau apie Arûno Gudaièio ir KristinosInèiûraitës (ir kitø jaunosios kartos Lietuvosmenininkø) kûrybà galite suþinoti Lietuvos

instituto ir Lietuvos dailës muziejaus Ðiuolai-kinës dailës informacijos centro ákurtame tin-

klapyje: www.youngartists.lt

Valentinas Klimaðauskas kalbasi su lenkømeno istoriku ir kritiku Piotru Piotrowskiuapie menà, medijas ir baþnyèià balandþiomënesá ávykusios popieþiø kaitos proga.Antroje interviu dalyje pasirodo originaliomistechnovizijoms garsëjantis Vilniausmenininkas Darius Mikðys, o pasiûlymaspakalbëti ðia tema virsta paties sumanymodekonstrukcija.

1 ddallisVallentinass KKlimaððauuskass:Man atrodo, kad tradicinësinstitucijos (pavyzdþiui, val-stybë ar baþnyèia) pradëjokësintis á naujàsias medijas.Atsiranda balsø, reikalau-janèiø ávesti privalomàdokumentø pateikimà,norint atsidaryti elektro-ninio paðto dëþutæ ar ási-gyti SIM kortelæ mobiliamtelefonui… Kà jûs manoteapie naujø medijø irbaþnyèios santykáLenkijoje?Piotrass PPiotrowskis:Lenkijos baþnyèiai (kaip irvalstybei) reikia naujømedijø savireklamos tikslaisir komunikacijai su liaudi-mi, kuri, kaip ir kitose ða-lyse, sieja „liberaliàkultûrà“ ir „liberalias ver-tybes“ su þiniasklaida.Lenkø Romos katalikøbaþnyèia turi tokià galià(jos politinë galia turbûtyra didþiausia tarp Europosðaliø), kad sugebëjo priver-sti parlamentà á þiniasklai-

dos ástatymà átraukti frazæ apie pagarbàkrikðèioniðkoms vertybëms þiniasklaidoje.Laimei, tai tëra retorinis ásipareigojimas irrealioje socialinëje praktikoje daug nereiðkia.O á pirmàjà jûsø klausimo dalá galiu atsakyti,kad yra buvæ ðiokiø tokiø bandymø iðplëstivalstybës kontrolæ komunikacijø atþvilgiu,taèiau, laimei, jie nebuvo sëkmingi. Ðiaip artaip, liaudies kontrolë nëra baþnyèios iniciaty-va, veikiau pati valstybë (kaip ir bet kuri kita)svajoja kontroliuoti þmones.

VK: Sekmadiená (geguþës 8) naujasispopieþius Benediktas XVI sakë kalbà, skirtàþiniasklaidai, kurioje ragino jà labiau stengtiskuriant pozityvø dialogà tarp nacijø ir pan. Arpozityvi ir „moralizuojanti“ þiniasklaida galipadëti sukurti geresná pasaulá? O gal ji taptødar viena cenzûros priemone?PP: Netikiu, kad baþnyèia ið tiesø suinteresuo-ta realiu dialogu tarp nacijø ar bet kuriø kitøgrupiø. Jeigu taip ir yra, naujasis (taip patkaip ir senasis) popieþius kalba apie dialogà,

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das, ar kûrinys? Jei parduodamas vardas,tuomet nesvarbu, ar tai video, ar kitokiaiðraiðkos priemone atliktas kûrinys. Ðiuo atve-ju Vakarø meno rinka yra pranaðesnë neilietuviðka, nes jau seniai yra legitimavusitokias meninës iðraiðkos formas kaip video,performansas, medijø menai.KI: Su meno rinka uþsienyje dar maþai esamesusidûræ, nors privaèiø galerijø susidomëjimaslietuviðku ðiuolaikiniu menu auga. Kur kasliûdniau yra Lietuvoje, kurioje ðiuolaikinismenas savo rinkos neturi. Nenuneigsimefakto, kad intelektualinë produkcija turi turëtisavo kainà. Nëra meno rinkos – nëra galimy-bës suþinoti, kiek vertas ðiuolaikinio menokûrinys. Ðiuolaikinio menininko statusasmiglotas, visuomenë neþino, kaip vertintimenininkà, apskritai trûksta adekvatauspoþiûrio á ðiuolaikinio meno kûrëjà. Daugelisvis dar mano, kad esame grupelë naiviøentuziastø, laisvalaikiu kurianèiø darbus,kurie suprantami tik siauram þmoniø ratui. AG: Taip þiûrima ne tik á Lietuvosmenininkus. Esu bendravæs su nevienu jaunuVakarø menininku, jø situacija labai panaði.Tik ten labiau apibrëþtas menininko statusas,egzistuoja daugiau galimybiø naudotis valsty-bës teikiamomis lengvatomis, ávairiø privaèiøfondø parama, stipendijomis bei kûrybinëmisdirbtuvëmis tokiuose pasauliniuose menoþidiniuose kaip Niujorkas ar Londonas. KI: Lietuvoje vis dar populiari ið modernizmoepochos atëjusi romantiðka bohemiðkomenininko samprata. Lietuviðkose gyvenimobûdo laidose ar þurnaluose daþniausiai paro-doma klasikinë tapytojo studija, pakalbamaapie jo gyvenimo moteris, apie jo klajones poplatø pasaulá. Ðie pasakojimai apie menininkàneretai net mistifikuojami – vien ko vertasstraipsnis populiariame Lietuvos dienraðtyjeapie lietuvio tapytojo susiþavëjimà sargodarbu kapinëse. Kodël jiems skiriamas toksdëmesys? Todël, kad modernistai tapytojaiyra vertinami mûsø visuomenëje – jie turisavo rinkà vietinëje terpëje, jø kûriniai par-duodami tradicinëse, á modernistinæ dailæorientuotose lietuviðkose galerijose. Jeikûrinys turi vertæ, já sukûræs menininkas yragerbiamas visuomenëje ir juo labiau domisiþiniasklaida. Kuo labiau domisi þiniasklaida,tuo sparèiau meno rinkoje auga jo sukurtomeno vertë. O ðiuolaikiniam menui Lietuvojedar teks palaukti...AG: Ar ðiuolaikinio meno rinka Lietuvoje iðviso atsiras? Ar ji èia reikalinga? GintarasBeresnevièius yra taikliai apibûdinæs ðiàsituacijà, kalbëdamas apie skirtingus piþonoir snobo prioritetus. KI: Gal iðeitis bûtø Vilniuje ákurti tokias ðiuo-

laikinio meno galerijas, kurios dalyvautømeno rinkoje uþsienyje. Èia tiktø kol kasvienintelës tokio tipo galerijos IBID Projects,kursuojanèios marðrutu Vilnius-Londonas-tarptautinës meno mugës, pavyzdys.AG: Vis dëlto svarbus vaidmuo tenka galeri-jos geografinei vietai. Tik tiek, kad ðiuo-laikinei galerijai nebûtini mega-plotai. Taitarsi duomenø bankas, o galerija savo formalabiau primena ofisà. Kita prieþastis, kodëlgalerijø veiklaorientuota ádidþiuosiuspasaulio cen-trus, yrakonkurencija.Juk ne taip irsvarbu, kokiodydþio ofisas –svarbu, kokiainformacijajame kaupiamair pristatomatiek paèiojegalerijos erdvë-je, tiek inter-nete.KI: Tokie infor-macinësvisuomenës pri-valumai.Nepaisant to,Lietuvojeneturimepakankamaiðiuolaikiniomeno instituci-jø, kuriose galë-tume rodytisavo kûrinius.Pavyzdþiui, ðiuometu sukuriupo tris arketuris naujusfilmus permetus, kuriuosparodau tikuþsienyje.Skambës liûd-nai, taèiau ðiaismetais Vilniuje planuojamà mano 2002-2005metø videofilmø retrospektyvà reiktø pava-dinti premjera, nes Lietuvoje jie rodyti tiknedaugeliui. Ironiðka, kad kuriu darbus, susi-jusius su lietuviðku kontekstu, kurie vietinëjevisuomenëje retai pristatomi. AG: Taigi vël gráþtame prie lietuviðkos rinkossiaurumo. Taèiau turëtume atkreipti dëmesá irá vietos specifikà. Lietuviðko ðiuolaikinio meno

scena pernelyg uþdara ir jauna. Ji turi savonuoseklø identitetà, o kartø klausimas vis darlieka atviras.KI: Lietuviai sëslûs ir èia kartos glaudþiai susi-jusios. Kitur, ypaè megapoliuose, kur didelëmigracija, sunku sekti kartø evoliucijà.Pavyzdþiui, Anri Sala pradëjo sëkmingàmenininko karjerà Paryþiuje, pasinaudojæs irkûryboje þaidæs savo albaniðka kilme, o atsis-tojæs ant kojø tarptautinëje meno scenoje,

pradëjo kurti darbus, nutolusius nuo savokilmës refleksijø. Panaðiø pavyzdþiø yra irdaugiau. AG: Kalbant apie savo ðalies reprezentavimàuþsienyje, schema lyg ir aiðki – uþsienyje pri-statomi kûriniai, daugiau maþiau atspindintyslietuviðkas socialines realijas. Ðis susidomëji-mas blësta, kaip ir blësta – o gal jau ir visaidingo – domëjimasis Balkanais, Vidurio ar

paroda mes koká ðeðëlá? Girdëjau, kad tiek ÐMC, tiek ICA parodos metu gali bûti pastebëti keisti, antgamtiðki reiðkiniai. Skamba neátikëtinai, taèiau ar tai tiesa?demokratija? Ar pardavëte sielø velniui? Ar parodoje bus kûriniø, kurie galëtø uþkerëti publikà? Juodoji rinka daþnai asocijuojama su ðeðëline ekonomika. Ar ði

Þmonës

Valentino Klimaðausko interviu suPiotru Piotrowskiu ir Darium Mikðiu

1716

paremtà krikðèioniðkøjø vertybiø sistema, t.y.mato save kaip tam tikrà galià, kuri ðiamedialoge jei ir toleruoja kitus subjektus, tainepripaþásta jø kaip lygiaverèiø. Aiðku, kad,jei baþnyèia turëtø galimybæ, ji tikrai norëtøávesti tam tikrà cenzûrà. Visgi tikiuosi, kad irateityje ji neturës tokios galimybës. VK: Kokie yra santykiai tarp meno, menoinstitucijø ir baþnyèios a.a. Jono Pauliaus IItëvynëje?PP: Tai labai sudëtingas klausimas. Daug laikopraleidau tyrinëdamas ðià temà ir esu visiðkaiásitikinæs, kad jo átaka Lenkijos kultûros irmeno srityse, ypaè po 1989-øjø, yra labaidestruktyvi. Jis Lenkijos baþnyèiai suteikëekstremalià galià, jungianèià dvi tendencijas:nacionalizmà ir religijà, tradicines Lenkijosmainstreamo vertybes. Jo konservatyvuspoþiûris turëjo didelæ átakà ðioje ðalyje, kuriyra konservatyvi savo kilme ir istorija. Visosproblemos dël meno cenzûros (religinës, sek-sualinës ir pan.), kurias esu aptaræsPopulizmo leidinyje, yra kilusios ið ðio ðaltinio. VK: Kà Jono Pauliaus II mirtis reiðkia Lenkijosþiniasklaidai ir visuomenei? Ar liturgija 7/24vyko visais – nacionaliniu, privaèiu, þiniasklai-dos, virtualios realybës ir meno institucijø –lygiais?PP: Po (ir netgi ðiek tiek prieð) jo mirtáLenkijos þiniasklaida buvo labai isteriðka. Mannetgi sunku ásivaizduoti, kaip visa þiniasklaidagalëjo taip ignoruoti visas kitas naujienas.Lenkijos spaudoje pasirodë tiek nostalgiðkøistorijø, tiek apologetiniø straipsniø ir beveiknë vieno kritiðko. Visgi manau, kad tai buvoLenkijos baþnyèios galios pabaigos pradþia,nes lenkai daþniausiai matë popieþiø kaip„savo popieþiø“. Dabar, kai toks nacionalinisatramos taðkas pradingo, galbût iðnyks ir jopolitinë-religinë bazë, o Romos katalikøbaþnyèia susilpnës. Labai norëjau naujuojupopieþiumi matyti juodaodá kardinolà. Taibûtø buvæs ðokas Lenkijai, turinèiai stipriànacionalistinæ bazæ – jis bûtø suteikæs galimy-bæ susilpninti ðià ideologijà. Deja, taipneávyko. Taèiau vokieèio pasirinkimas yra tai-pogi daug þadantis...:)

2 ddallisVallentinass KKlimaððauuskass: Siûlau pakalbëtiapie popieþiø, nors dar neþinau kokiu aspek-tu. Að nesu tikintis, tikiu, tu irgi.Darrius MMikðys: Kodël tiki, kad netikintis?VK: Mano nuomone, tu esi labiau nano irmega galaktikø romantikas, medituojantisgnostikas ir medijø ðamanas nei praktikuo-jantis katalikas. Bet klausimas buvo toks: artu tikintis?DM: Bet toks klausimas uþduodamas kine

herojui atsidûrus „ant ribos“. Tai kas ginutiko?VK: Tikiu, kad esame ant senøjø institucijø(tokiø kaip valstybë ir baþnyèia) ásiverþimo ánaujàsias medijas epochos pradþios ribos...DM: Taip, tikëjimui reikalinga „þinia“, kuriai,deja, neuþtenka vien medijos galybës. Þiniaireikalinga ir idëja, o mes matome, kad naujø,su ðiuolaikine pasaulio samprata sutam-panèiø religiniø idëjø baþnyèia kol kas neper-duoda. Arba perduoda, bet mes „nepagau-name“. Arba neperduoda, nes kol kas mes jønesuprastume. O greièiausiai darnepasigaminome tos idëjos, nes kol kas tikmokomës jos þodyno ir kuriame árankius joseksploatavimui. Mûsø esamas/buvæs dievasdabar vis labiau panaðus tik á „materijoskodo“ distributoriø ir jei tas kodas mumstaps „atviru“, naujas dievas vël bus„nukeltas“ uþ naujojo horizonto. Taigi, manatrodo, ir medija „ásiverþia“ á religijà ir keièiajos lokacijà sàmonës þemëlapyje. O valstybë,kaip fiktyvus darinys, þinoma, yra sukurta irnuolatos perkuriama medijø pagalba.VK: ...taip pat nesu tikras, ar bûtø ádomukalbëtis apie sakraliná menà ar menà irtikëjimà.DM: Ádomiai kalbëti bûtø ádomu.VK: Be abejo. Siûlau sudalyvauti kitame inter-viu, kurá skirsime www.bernardinai.lt.DM: Nebent bernardinai.com.VK: Ar tau virtuali erdve.lt atrodo pernelygklaustrofobiðka palyginus su virtualiaerdve.com?DM: Erdve.com klaustrofobiðkesnë. Bet siûlaulaikinai boikotuoti LT dël valstybëje vyk-stanèios korupcijos, kuri trukdo kûrybinëmsbendruomenëms veikti vertingø vertybiøaplinkoje. Bet pirmiausia trukdo toms ben-druomenëms kurtis.VK: Gráþkime prie popieþiaus temos. Ádo-miausias man ðiuo atveju atrodytø popieþiausJono Pauliaus II mirties spektaklis reginioprasme. Dar gilià naktá buvo pradëtostiesioginës ir netiesioginës transliacijos iðVatikano ir Krokuvos, rodyti filmai apiepopieþiaus gyvenimà, mirtá, etc. Vatikanaspalaiko itin gerus santykius su medijomis:SMS ir el. paðtu pasaulis buvo informuotasapie popieþiaus mirtá anksèiau nei stovintysÐv. Petro aikðtëje Romoje. Kà tu manai apienaujø medijø ir konservatyvios baþnyèiosdraugystæ?DM: Manau tà patá, kà ir apie politikø beiþiniasklaidos ryðá. Dar vienas ádomus faktas –baltai juodi dûmai konklavos metu bei ðiossenoviðkos „medijos“ modernizavimas irpanaudojimas.VK: Be abejonës, bendras baþnyèios palanku-

mas þiniasklaidai turi politiná atspalvá, betmane labiau domina medijø sakralizacija,kuria aktyviai uþsiima baþnyèia. Naujasispopieþius pradëjo savo inauguracijà nuo sim-bolinio þurnalistø paðventinimo, buvopaskelbti jo el. adresai susiraðinëjimui ávairio-mis kalbomis, á kuriuos jis pats ir atsakinëjo.Panaðûs procesai vyksta ávairiose religijose,pvz. arabiðki mobilûs telefonai rodo, kuriojepusëje yra Meka. Mane labiau domina ðinaujojo technologinio sakralinio baroko era...DM: Apskritai, manau, kad Lietuvojebaþnyèia neturi „sakralumo“ kredito.Sakralizuojama – kristalizuojama?Kristalizuojama, kristalizuojama ir taip tikin-tieji atverèiami á medijos dorybæ. VK: Kalbi apie skystø kristalø displëjø ðven-tyklas? DM: Ir kiðeninius altorëlius. Air Bus, lenktyniaudami su Boeing, þydamssiûlë lëktuvuose árengtas sinagogas arba,jeigu neklystu, meèetes arabams. Neseniaiskaièiau apie patentuotà „media antkapio“iðradimà – antkapyje ámontuota videosistemalankytojams leidþia perþiûrëti mirusiojopraneðimus ir palinkëjimus/pabarimus.Kaþkada màsèiau apie medijas, kurios netyèiagali iðsaugoti gyvybæ: tarkime, staiga mirðti, otavo el. paðto dëþutë yahoo serveryje „gyve-na“ toliau. Bet að negirdëjau apie svetainæ,kurioje apsilankæs bûtum paðventintas arpakrikðtytas, ar apie paðto serverá, ið kurioiðsiøstos þinutës apaèioje atsirastø lotyniðkareklama.VK: Evangeliniai SMS’ai uþkariauja ne tik TVar radijà, bet ir miðias bei pamaldas:http://www.popemessage.com/ galiuþsisakyti popieþiaus minèiø ðiai dienai,http://www.ev-jugend-hannover.de/ gali mel-stis þinutëmis, o budistai mobiliuosius tele-fonus netgi ðventina http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,64624,00.html.Taip pat galime prisiminti tele-evangelineslaidas, kurias stebëdamas neabejotinai galijaustis medijuotos procesijos dalyviu. Kas,tavo manymu, yra tikresnis medijø popieþius– ðventas tëvas ar Marshalas McLuhanas, arkaþkas kitas? DM: Jeigu galëtume nepaisyti (ar bûtineskaitæ) Marshalo McLuhano, popieþius,þinoma, bûtø plaèiau medijuojama ir medi-juojanti figûra. Bet vien dël to jis negali bûti„medijø popieþiumi“. Popieþiaus institucijanustato kanonà ir vykdo jo monitoringà, o taipaskutiniu metu jai visai nesiseka daryti.Galima manyti, kad religija ðiuo metu turimaþiausiai átakos medijai per visà savo gyva-vimo istorijà. Jei paleolito olø pieðinius laiky-tume dalyviais ritualø, kurie galëjo bûti religi-

jos uþuomazga, ir jei pasektume religijosátakà vaizdavimo ir praneðimo bûdams ikimûsø dienø, galëtume tvirtinti, kad religijapraktiðkai inicijavo ir sukûrë medijà. Ði tikneseniai subyrëjo á daugelá medijos formø irmediatoriø, kurie savo ruoþtu yra „popieþiai“savo átakos zonose. Medijuojanèius kûriniuskuriantys menininkai taip pat kartais bûnasavo darbø popieþiais, o kartais gali bûti netik savo, bet ir kitø autoriø darbø popieþiaisarba atvirkðèiai – visai nebûti nei savo, neijokio kito kûrinio popieþiumi (manau,McLuhanas yra ir savo, ir daugelio kitøkûriniø popieþius). Galëtume net pagalvotiapie ðito mudviejø teksto popieþiø, jei ásivaiz-duotume, kad jis jau atspausdintas.VK: Taip, bet ereziniø tekstø ar ereziniømedijø panaudojimo galimybë tik sustiprinareakciniø sluoksniø kovà su antidogmati-nëmis interpretacijomis. Juk internetiniø sve-tainiø monitoringo, reitingavimo, patikimu-mo filtravimo programinë áranga yra tamtikra virtuali inkvizicijos forma. Ar tavæsnebaugina stiprëjanti virtualios erdvës panop-tikumo idëja (pvz., tam tikrø valstybiø tamtikri sluoksniai reikalauja, kad bûtø privalo-mas ID pateikimas atsidarant savo el. paðtodëþutæ ir pan.)?DM: Bet ir reakcionieriai gali didinti erezijø

atsiradimo tikimybæ. Juk tarpsta visokios sek-tos ir alternatyvos „tikrajai versijai“ (galëtumeprisiminti chaoso teorijà). Toliau galime jais irnesidomëti, nes religija jau seniai nebesukuriajokio svarbaus produkto. Nors, þinoma, dartebeturi socialiniø funkcijø. O virtualiosioserdvës anarchija erzina tiek pat kiek ir gali-mas atvirkðtinis, „tvarkingas“ jos variantas.VK: Ar nemanai, kad popieþiaus mirties„spektaklis“ masinëse informacijospriemonëse praplëtë liturgijos sampratà tiekerdvëje, tiek laike? Tiesioginës transliacijos iðVatikano metu iðvietintos baþnytinës miðiosbuvo perkeltos á visà taip vadinamo krikðèio-niðko pasaulio erdvæ. Tokiu bûdu masinësinformacijos priemonës atliko liturginiø medi-jø vaidmená?DM: Að paprastai perjungiu kanalà, kai rodokaþkà visiðkai neádomaus. Tuomet tas ávykisdingsta ið realybës lauko. Ið tikrøjø, medijakaip veidrodis atspindi preferencijas, t.y.veikia kaip veidrodinis ávykio serveris, kurispakeièia realøjá ávyká. Pvz., sporto varþybøtransliacija vyksta ne „ið“ kaþkur, o tiesiogvyksta ir ávyksta prieðais esanèiame maþdaug40 x 60 cm dydþio plotelyje. Niekam ne pas-laptis, kaip atsiranda vaizdas „dëþëje“, betesu tikras, kad TV þiûrovas nekontempliuojarealiosios vietos „perkëlimo“. Ir manau, kad

medija jau nebëra joks tarpininkas, nes jilabiau suinteresuota savimi paèia ir nukreiptaá save ir savo makijaþà bei daþnai yra turinyssau paèiai. Pvz., naujojo BBC orø prognoziødizaino aptarimas tampa BBC þiniø turiniu. Irne tik faktui atsitikus. Ávykis buvo anonsuoja-mas jau prieð pusmetá ir tapo laukiama þiniaþiniø vartotojams. Prie alaus bokalo besipi-nantis lieþuvis, manau, yra tikresnistarpininkas (maþiau ádomus, kas be ko).VK: Jei galvotum apie ðio teksto iliustratyvøpopieþiø, kas jis bûtø?DM: Medijuojantis traktorius arba „popie-þiaus traktorius“, kurá pavyko sugauti KaunoKlinikø kieme. Mûsø neaptarta tema –„popieþiaus maðinos“. Ir kadras ið TV ekrano„dûmai konklavos metu“ – taip pat mûsødar neplëtota tema. VK: Kaip tu pradëtum interviu apie popieþiø?DM: Pasipraðyèiau audiencijos pas popieþiø.Interviuojamas bûtø Jo Ðviesybë.

Valentinas Klimaðauskas yra ÐMC kuratoriusir meno kritikas.

Piotras Piotrowskis yra Poznanës A. Mickevièiaus universiteto Meno istorijos

instituto direktorius.Darius Mikðys yra menininkas, gyvenantis

Vilniuje.

kritikø keliais? Ar elgtis bûtent taip jus paskatino mûsø potraukis pavojams? Ar BMW apskritai gali tapti diskusijos objektu (tik, þinoma, ne tema, juk nesate te-Ar buvo lengva, ar bent ne pernelyg sudëtinga, kuruoti parodà, kuri, atrodo, neperkëlë nieko nei tiesiai ið Disneilendo, nei sekë idealistiniais praktikuojanèiø

1918 bendruomenes? Ar ði paroda skirta „pardavimui“? Ar manote, kad tai yra jos ateitis, ar tik darote tokià prielaidà, tarsi juodoji rinka ir e-bay turëtø daug siste-miniø parkø fanatai!)? Neatrodo, kad BMW klausimai bûtø paimti ið dykumø, prekybos centrø ar teminiø parkø. Kodël? Ar esate kada nors kalbëjæsi apie BMW

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asi G

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ka v

ieto

s ta

m,

kà,

Raou

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lios

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suþe

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urie

vis

dël

to m

atë

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jos

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æ? A

r jo

s kr

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dika

lum

as n

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toið

ko s

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mo

prie

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mà

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iirr ssuu

bbjjeekk

ttàà ss

uukkuurr

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áággall

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ddiisskk

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ss..Se

kda-

ma

Laca

nu Þ

ukau

skai

të a

iðki

ai s

kiria

rea

lybæ

(la

réa

lité)

ir tik

rovæ

(le

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l). R

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bës

ir tik

rovë

s pe

rsky

rà a

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s bi

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ko p

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Rem

dam

asi M

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bûdà

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enas

yra

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tsis

kirt

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iko

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nim

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pane

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zoç

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gyv

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as n

e átr

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ingu

mo

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pake

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prii

mti-

nom

is þ

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n, k

ai v

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s da

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aren

à. Ð

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vart

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myb

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visu

omen

ës s

pekt

aklio

rez

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tà.

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uska

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risim

ena

hom

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cer

figûr

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aste

bi jo

s sa

ulël

ydá,

bana

lëjim

à,ny

kim

à m

enin

iu,

gim

inës

ir e

kono

min

iu p

oþiû

riais

.

TTuuððtt

uummooss

ssllëë

ppiimm

ass iirr

NNiiee

kkiioo

ppassll

appttiiss

. A

lthus

seris

sak

o,ka

d su

bjek

tas

yra

disk

ursy

vios

inte

rpel

iaci

jos

rezu

ltata

s,ki

tur

– id

eolo

gijø

vei

ksm

o ið

dava

, o

Þuka

uska

itë t

eigi

a,ka

d „ð

iuol

aiki

nis

subj

ekta

s yr

a ne

kas

kita

kai

p re

gim

assp

ekta

klis

“ (p

. 21

0),

prid

urèi

au –

kar

tais

kai

p dr

ama.

Spek

takl

is,

karn

aval

as,

mas

kara

das

kuria

ir s

ubje

ktà,

irob

jekt

à m

aþoj

i a.

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ernu

sis

dvig

ubas

mim

ezis

(va

i-di

nim

ø ka

rtoj

imas

), pa

taik

avim

as v

eidr

odin

iam

atsp

indþ

iui,

iðtik

imyb

ë ek

ranu

i yra

tuð

tum

os s

lëpi

mo

stra

tegi

jos.

Aut

orë

past

ebi:

atsk

leid

æ dv

igub

os im

itaci

-jo

s pa

slap

tá nu

sivi

lsim

e –

mas

kara

das

niek

o ne

slep

ia,

ova

idin

imas

ir y

ra v

ieni

ntel

ë re

alyb

ës e

smë.

Man

au,

kad

dram

a yr

a su

siju

si s

u tik

rovë

s tu

ðtum

os k

onst

atav

imu,

su t

ragi

ðka

past

anga

ávei

kti i

deol

ogijø

skr

aist

æ, n

es p

er-

galë

tea

tver

ia N

ieká

. Þu

kaus

kaitë

s te

kstu

ose

bûtis

tai

pir

nepa

siro

do,

nors

, pr

isim

inus

Mar

tinà

Hei

degg

erá i

rjo

s ci

tuoj

amà

Arv

ydà

Ðlio

gerá,

vai

zdø

neig

imas

rod

obû

tá ka

ip jo

s rib

à. B

ûtie

s pa

rody

mas

bût

ø ta

nel

eist

ina

prab

anga

, si

lpny

bë,

kurio

s Þu

kaus

kaitë

s te

kstu

ose

beve

ik n

eras

ime.

Bev

eik

– ne

s ka

rtai

s ji

min

i tik

rovæ

,ne

áman

omà

ðans

à, á

kurá

nuro

do d

isku

rsyv

iom

stv

arko

ms

nepa

klûs

tant

ys s

impt

omai

.

Siimm

ppttoomm

aii yy

rra nn

eeáámm

annoomm

a „„a

uutteenn

ttiiððkkuu

mmoo““

ggall

iimmyybb

ëë..

Jie n

urod

o á n

eapi

brëþ

tà t

ikro

væ,

á nei

ðpild

omà

pasi

jà.

Nei

deol

ogið

kum

o, n

edis

kurs

yvum

o ða

nsas

yra

sie

jam

assu

gyv

enim

o ta

ktik

a. Þ

enkl

as n

urod

o m

aþia

usia

i tris

dim

ensi

jas:

rei

kðm

æ ar

ba o

bjek

tà,

disk

urso

arb

a te

ksto

tvar

kà ir

, ne

tiesi

ogia

i, si

mpt

omà

arba

dis

kurs

o rib

à.Pa

sak

Þuka

uska

itës,

„si

mpt

omas

yra

tik

rovë

s in

karn

aci-

ja“,

nuo

roda

á „t

raum

iná b

rand

uolá“

(p.

15)

, á,

Laca

noþo

dþia

is t

aria

nt,

cent

rinæ

nega

limyb

æ, a

plin

k ku

riàst

rukt

ûruo

jam

as v

isas

rei

kðm

ës la

ukas

. A

smen

ybë,

pasa

k Þu

kaus

kaitë

s, y

ra p

akib

usi „

onto

logi

nës

dias

te-

mos

“ (p

. 17

) si

tuac

ijoje

: ta

rp d

isku

rso

ir si

mpt

omo,

tarp

rea

lybë

s ir

tikro

vës.

Tai

ir y

ra s

ubje

kto

þlug

imo

prie

þast

is.

Ont

olog

inë

dias

tem

a sl

epia

tra

gedi

jos

kilm

æir

juok

à dë

l neá

gyve

ndin

amø

vilè

iø.

Ðtai

kod

ëlÞu

kaus

kaitë

s kn

yga

yra

ne t

ik ir

onið

ka,

bet

kart

ais

irlin

ksm

a sa

vo n

egai

lest

ingu

mu.

LLiibbii

ddiinnëë

eekkoo

nnoomm

iikka

iirr gga

mmyybb

iinnëë

ppssiicc

hhiikka

. Þu

kaus

kaitë

rem

iasi

mar

ksis

tine

ðiuo

laik

inio

pos

tmod

erni

zmo

gaid

a:ek

onom

ika

veik

ia v

isas

ideo

logi

jas,

sam

prot

avim

us a

pie

pore

ikiu

s ir

resu

rsus

, o

per

tai –

gal

ios

disk

ursu

s. N

ors

pati

gam

yba

kaip

dai

ktin

is p

roce

sas

yra

nedi

skur

syvi

tikro

vë,

taèi

au jo

s ek

span

sija

vis

ø þm

ogau

s sa

ntyk

iøat

þvilg

iu v

ykst

a nu

olat

. Ir

nors

psi

chik

a sa

ugo

asm

ens

sant

yká s

u ge

ism

u, t

aèia

u ga

myb

a uþ

tikrin

a eg

zist

uo-

janè

ias

troð

kim

ø fo

rmas

. Su

bjek

tas

geid

þia

to,

kà g

ami-

na id

eolo

gizu

ota

ekon

omik

a. T

aèia

u ps

ichi

ka y

ra s

usi-

jusi

ir s

u tr

aum

ine

indi

vidø

, so

cial

iniø

gru

piø

ar t

autø

patir

timi.

Trau

ma

rodo

gry

nojo

gei

smo

nedi

skur

syvi

àst

ichi

jà.

Ji ið

ryðk

ëja

per

nuty

lëjim

us,

tabu

, ba

imæ,

pauz

æ. P

aste

bësi

u, k

ad þ

ydø

þudy

mo

1941

-ais

iais

nuty

lëjim

as p

laèi

ojoj

e lie

tuvi

ðkoj

e sp

audo

je,

neþi

ûrin

ttr

umpø

info

rmac

iniø

pra

neði

mø,

iðlik

o tr

aum

a, k

uri

prod

ukuo

ja d

vipr

asm

ybes

. Þu

kaus

kaitë

s kn

ygos

yra

puik

us m

etod

inis

pag

albi

nink

as t

aria

mai

dor

ø di

skur

søkr

itiko

s po

þiûr

iu.

TToo PP

attiiee

ss þþa

bbanngg

ooss..

Dis

kurs

ai,

ideo

logi

jos

dova

noja

subj

ektu

i gal

ià.

Ir ka

i sub

jekt

as k

ûryb

inga

i ats

tova

uja

disk

ursy

vià

tvar

kà,

kai j

is,

Alth

usse

rio þ

odþi

ais

taria

nt,

ið s

ubje

kto

ið m

aþos

ios

svi

rsta

sàm

onin

gu s

ubje

ktu

iðdi

dþio

sios

S,

tada

jo s

vajo

nës,

viz

ijos,

pla

nai i

r ne

tre

voliu

cijo

s vi

rsta

To

Patie

s pa

sika

rtoj

imai

s, s

imbo

linio

egoi

zmo

proj

ekci

jom

is.

Spek

takl

io t

vark

a ga

min

a vi

sna

ujas

vai

dini

mø

tvar

kas,

mas

kara

dai i

ðjud

ina

nauj

uska

rnav

alus

. Fa

ntaz

ijos

tuðt

ybæ

slep

ia r

etro

akty

vum

as,

kai s

vajo

jam

a ap

ie t

ai,

kà g

undo

sva

joti

film

ai,

lege

n-do

s, m

itai.

Uþ

To P

atie

s fa

ntaz

ijø n

esis

lepi

a ni

ekas

,no

rs t

uðtu

ma,

kur

ià u

þden

gia

fant

azijo

s, k

urio

s bi

jotv

arka

, yr

a tr

aum

a. T

raum

a vi

sado

s su

siju

si s

u tik

rovë

sin

vazi

ja.

Nes

tik

rovë

nër

a an

apus

dis

kurs

o, ji

yra

kiek

vien

o þe

nklo

ner

egim

asis

kom

pone

ntas

, rib

a.N

epat

irian

tys

skau

smin

go ð

ios

ribos

kis

mo

neið

veng

ia-

mai

pak

liûna

á To

Pat

ies

pink

les,

kai

p Þu

kaus

kaitë

sN

arci

zas.

DDeemm

oonniiðð

kkii vv

yyrraii

,, kka

rrnnavv

alliiðð

kkooss

mmoott

eerryyss

..V

yrai

kny

goje

aiðk

iai d

emon

izuo

jam

i ir

vaiz

duoj

ami k

aip

nuol

atin

iai

galio

s re

prez

enta

ntai

. G

alia

tur

ëti f

alà

yra

ðios

dem

o-ni

zaci

jos

prie

þast

is.

Mot

eris

, pr

ieði

ngai

, yr

a ge

ism

oob

jekt

o –

falo

– m

aska

rada

s. A

utor

ë ve

ikia

usia

i man

o,ka

d m

oter

iðku

mas

ir v

yrið

kum

as y

ra n

eiðv

engi

ami

pang

eism

o at

ribut

ai.

Pang

eism

o, n

es,

Laca

no ir

Þuka

uska

itës

poþi

ûriu

, vi

skas

– g

amyb

a, s

ocia

linë

orga

-ni

zaci

ja,

kultû

rinë

veik

la –

yra

per

smel

kta

ðio

puls

uo-

janè

io,

gyvy

bing

o ge

ism

o. „

Mas

kara

dinæ

“ m

oter

iðku

-m

o es

mæ

auto

rë p

erte

ikia

nur

odyd

ama

á tra

nsve

stitu

s,ku

rie y

ra a

nalo

giðk

as „

mas

kara

do“

feno

men

as.

Taèi

auá k

vyrø

(Que

er)

egzi

sten

cini

us lû

þius

dël

ski

rtin

go,

nei

mot

ers

atve

ju,

iðst

umim

o m

echa

nizm

ø, ji

nes

igili

na ir

todë

l kvy

røpa

tiria

ma

trau

ma

knyg

oje

netu

ri sa

vo y

pa-

tum

o. T

rans

vest

itai i

ðlie

ka m

iglo

ti.

KKass

ddiieenn

yybbëë

bbee iidd

eealløø

..K

iekv

iena

s as

muo

, re

mda

mas

issi

mpt

omai

s ir

verè

iam

as id

eolo

gijø

bei

dis

kurs

ø,re

aguo

ja á

situ

acijà

, á a

tsiti

ktin

ius

iððû

kius

. Þu

kaus

kaitë

neka

lba

apie

kûr

ybin

gum

à ir

idea

lus,

kur

ie,

rem

iant

isda

r K

anto

tra

dici

ja,

supo

nuoj

a la

isvà

pas

irink

imà.

Nel

ikus

idea

lø,

ávai

rovæ

uþt

ikrin

a tik

kas

dien

ybës

chao

sas.

„K

asdi

enia

i vei

ksm

ai in

korp

oruo

ja g

udra

vim

à,m

anev

rus,

gud

rius

triu

kus,

sim

ulia

cija

s, n

etik

rus

silp

nu-

mo

sim

ptom

us,

poet

ikos

ir k

aro

elem

entu

s [..

.] ta

ktin

ëel

gsen

a vi

suom

et y

ra ið

sklid

usi,

efem

erið

ka ir

sla

pta,

jisu

kuria

ma

kaip

impr

oviz

uota

s at

saka

s á k

onkr

eèià

situ

acijà

“ (p

. 40

). K

asdi

enyb

ës áv

airo

vë s

katin

a ta

k-tin

ius,

mom

entin

ius

veik

smus

. St

rate

gija

, pr

ieði

ngai

,„s

ieki

a ko

loni

zuot

i reg

imà,

spe

cifin

æ vi

età,

kur

i tam

paat

ram

a, ág

alin

anèi

a de

mon

stru

oti g

alià

“ (p

. 41

).St

rate

gija

atv

eria

kel

ià id

eolo

gijo

ms,

dis

kurs

ams,

sub

-je

ktui

, re

alyb

ei,

„vyr

ui“.

Str

ateg

ija u

þval

do ju

sles

, ka

s-di

enyb

ës r

egëj

imà

pave

rsda

ma

þiûr

ëjim

o fo

rmom

is,

steb

ëjim

o ku

ltûra

. Sp

onta

niðk

umas

gal

i tik

pra

sive

rþti

pro

disk

ursy

viø,

nev

erba

liniø

lûke

sèiø

tin

klà,

paþ

eist

iid

eolo

giná

asm

ens

tvirt

umà,

taè

iau

nega

li bû

ti, n

etur

isa

vaim

inio

pat

varu

mo.

Ar

mot

eris

yra

„ta

ktik

ë“?

KKûûnn

ass bb

ee oorr

ggannøø

iirr gg

eeiissmm

oo ttëë

kkmmëë..

Aut

orë

daug

dëm

e-si

o sk

iria

men

o, p

irmia

usia

kin

o, k

ritik

ai,

nors

dar

oek

skur

sus

ir á ð

iuol

aiki

niø

men

inin

kø N

omed

os ir

Ged

imin

o U

rbon

ø, E

glës

Rak

ausk

aitë

s, K

ristin

osIn

èiûr

aitë

s kû

rybà

. Yp

aè ád

omi j

os ið

vest

a pa

rale

lë t

arp

Ant

onin

o A

rtau

d „k

ûno

be o

rgan

ø“ ir

Gill

es D

eleu

ze’o

ikia

smen

inës

, ik

isub

jekt

yvio

s ge

ism

o të

kmës

. K

ûnas

be

orga

nø n

etur

i jok

ios

vidu

jybë

s ir

yra

tik t

ende

ncija

, gr

y-na

s pl

astið

kum

as,

o ge

ism

o të

kmë

yra

pasà

mon

ës s

ub-

stra

tas.

Pas

àmon

ë yr

a pa

gam

inam

a ið

gei

smo,

kai

pki

ekvi

eno

mûs

ø kû

nas

– ið

„kû

no b

e or

ganø

“.In

dust

rinei

gei

smø

gam

ybai

prie

ðina

si ð

iuol

aiki

niai

men

inin

kai.

Iðkû

nijim

as y

ra v

iena

ðiu

olai

kini

ø m

eno

stra

tegi

jø ir

èia

Þuk

ausk

aitë

apt

aria

Rak

ausk

aitë

s ir

Inèi

ûrai

tës

men

iniu

s pr

ojek

tus.

Kûn

o, ly

tiðku

mo,

o,

vadi

nasi

, ir

sim

bolin

ës r

ealy

bës

tran

sgre

sija

s au

torë

svar

sto

ir di

skut

uoda

ma

Pedr

o A

lmod

ovar

o be

i Lar

sovo

n Tr

iero

film

us.

Taèi

au a

r ði

e m

enin

iai p

roje

ktai

yra

tik k

ritik

a? A

r ta

i nër

a na

ujos

kûr

ybin

ës in

dust

rijos

dalis

, kû

niðk

umo

ir ge

ism

o fo

rmav

imo

prov

erþi

s?

Seekkss

uualluu

mmass

iirr jjoo

ppooll

iittiinnëë

eekkoo

nnoomm

iikka .

Vie

nasv

arbe

sniø

kny

gos

tem

ø –

seks

ualu

mas

. Se

kdam

aD

eleu

ze’u

ir F

elix

u G

uatt

ari s

eksu

alum

à au

torë

laik

o

geis

mo

mað

inos

dal

imi.

Gei

smas

yra

inko

rpor

uota

s á

bet

koki

à þm

ogið

kà v

eikl

à ka

ip s

timul

as,

kaip

gal

ia,

irto

dël s

eksu

alum

as y

ra p

oliti

nës

ekon

omik

os k

ateg

orija

.Ði

uola

ikin

ë po

litin

ë ek

onom

ika

nuro

do g

amyb

os s

usi-

dvej

inim

à ta

rp áv

airo

vës

ir su

vien

odin

imo,

tar

p ve

rtyb

iøir

to,

kad

jos

nuol

atos

pav

erèi

amos

mai

nom

osio

mis

vert

ëmis

. D

iach

roni

jos

proc

esai

bei

aug

anty

s po

reik

iai

reik

alau

ja áv

airo

vës,

kur

i daþ

niau

siai

ten

kina

ma

tøpa

èiø

obje

ktø

varia

cijo

mis

. Áv

airo

vës

sim

ulia

cija

yra

To

Patie

s bû

das

iðve

ngti

kank

inan

èiø

skirt

umø.

Pan

aðia

iat

sitin

ka ir

su

lytim

i. Þu

kaus

kaitë

rað

o: „

ðizo

anal

izë

yra

kint

anti

subj

ekto

n ly

èiø

anal

izë,

kur

i yra

ana

pus

antr

opom

orfin

iø r

epre

zent

acijø

, su

bjek

tui p

rimet

amø

visu

omen

ës“

(p.

144-

115)

. Ið

esm

ës e

kono

mik

a ið

stu-

mia

ant

ropo

mor

fizm

à, p

aver

sdam

a ly

tá rin

kos

pore

ikiu

,ar

tefa

ktu.

Man

au,

lytie

s ir

gim

inës

ant

ropo

mor

fizm

okr

itika

yra

sva

rbus

apt

aria

mos

kny

gos

pasi

ekim

as.

Net

ekæs

ant

ropo

mor

finiø

pav

idal

ø se

ksua

lum

as ið

tirps

-ta

libi

dinë

je e

kono

mik

oje

bei n

uola

tos

kart

oja

savo

mað

inin

ius

pavi

dalu

s. T

aèia

u ga

myb

a ir

mað

inos

neið

lais

vina

nuo

par

anoj

os a

r ði

zofr

enijo

s. Þ

ukau

skai

tëie

ðko

ðizo

fren

ijos

inve

rsijø

ðiu

olai

kinë

je g

amyb

oje.

Prid

urèi

au,

kad

vers

lo f

iloso

fijos

ats

tova

i Jos

epha

sSc

hum

pete

ris ir

And

rew

Gro

ve’a

s kû

rybi

ná d

estr

uk-

tyvu

mà

ir pa

rano

jà la

iko

ðiuo

laik

inës

indu

strij

os ð

erdi

mi.

NNeeáá

mmann

oommoo

KKiittoo

iiððssii

llaiiss

vviinnii

mmass

iiðð oo

bbjjeekk

ttoo mm

aþþoojj

ii a.

Kito

tem

a at

veria

kel

ià d

augi

au n

ei d

isku

rsø

ávai

rove

i.K

itas

atve

ria k

elià

tra

nsce

nden

cija

i, ku

ri su

siet

a ar

ba s

uid

eala

is,

arba

su

radi

kalia

i ski

rtin

gais

sim

bolin

iais

pasa

ulia

is,

arba

su

nedi

skur

syvi

u ek

onom

ikos

ir g

am-

tos/

psic

hiko

s sp

audi

mu.

Kito

fig

ûra

nëra

aið

ki,

nes

jine

ásite

nka

bina

riniø

rea

lybë

s/tik

rovë

s op

ozic

ijø r

ibos

e.Ir

jei T

as P

ats

galë

tø b

ûti s

usie

tas

su d

isku

rsyv

iu t

apat

u-m

u, s

u id

eolo

gijø

kol

oniz

uota

sav

imon

e, t

ai K

itas

nie-

ko t

okio

nen

urod

o. K

ità a

tver

ia s

usita

ikym

as s

u ga

m-

tine

aplin

ka a

rba

su n

epat

irtai

s ki

tø,

galb

ût n

eprii

mt-

inø,

pas

auliø

impe

raty

vais

. Ir

nors

Þuk

ausk

aitë

s kn

ygo-

je n

ëra

svar

stom

a A

lfons

o Li

ngio

ar

Alg

io M

ickû

nofil

osof

ija,

taèi

au r

adik

alau

s K

ito p

atos

as ð

iø a

utor

iøm

intis

sua

rtin

a.

Saky

èiau

, ka

d au

torë

Kito

sfe

rà s

kirs

to á

ásiv

aizd

uoja

mà,

sim

bolin

æ ir

tikrà

. Ás

ivai

zduo

jam

a –

tai T

o Pa

ties

kiti

atsp

indþ

iai,

sim

bolin

ë –

tai „

beas

men

iø t

aisy

kliø

visu

ma“

, tik

rovi

ðka

yra

„neá

man

omas

Dai

ktas

, ne

-þm

ogið

kas

part

neris

, su

kur

iuo

neám

anom

as jo

kssi

met

riðka

s di

alog

as“

(p.

142)

. Sk

irtyb

æ lin

kæ d

iskr

imi-

nuot

i Tie

Pat

ys k

iekv

ienà

rad

ikal

iai K

ità p

aver

èia

daik

tu,

nuve

rtin

a ik

i tar

pdal

ykin

iø s

anty

kiø,

iki m

anip

ulia

vim

oob

jekt

ø. Ð

io p

aver

timo

logi

ka y

ra s

usiju

si s

u si

mbo

line

repr

ezen

taci

jos

tvar

ka,

kai k

iekv

ienà

Kità

nei

ðven

giam

aiat

stov

auja

jo s

ubst

ituci

ja –

obj

ekta

s m

aþoj

i a.

Ið e

smës

obje

ktu

maþ

oji a

pave

rsta

s K

itas

virs

ta d

aikt

u, k

uris

nete

ko h

omo

sacr

uspa

vida

lo.

Þuka

uska

itë áv

ardi

ja k

ai k

uriu

os n

eám

anom

us n

eá-

man

omos

tik

rovë

s at

stov

us.

Tai m

oter

is ir

tie

, ku

riuos

dele

gitim

avo

ideo

logi

ja.

Mot

ers

figûr

à ji

inte

rpre

tuoj

aLa

cano

þod

þiai

s: „

Mot

eris

nee

gzis

tuoj

a“ r

eiðk

ia,

jog

jiyr

a ne

vis

a(p

as t

oute

), ji

nega

li sa

væs

visi

ðkai

ir g

alut

i-na

i rep

reze

ntuo

ti fa

linëj

e tv

arko

je“

(p.

164)

. Ta

èiau

ne

tik m

oter

is,

bet

ir „j

oks

seks

ualin

is s

anty

kis

neeg

zist

uo-

ja“,

tur

int

omen

yje,

kad

gei

smo

tikro

vë y

ra n

eþen

klið

-ka

. Pa

naði

ai n

eám

anom

i ir

visi

Kiti

rad

ikal

iai a

tstu

mtie

ji.Pa

vyzd

þiui

, G

uant

anam

o ka

linia

i, tie

, ku

rie ið

liko

pobo

mba

rdav

imo,

yra

neá

man

omi d

aikt

ai J

AV

pos

tulu

o-to

s po

karin

ës t

vark

os p

oþiû

riu.

Man

au,

prie

tok

iø n

eá-

man

omø

reik

ëtø

pris

kirt

i ir

daug

iau

ekon

omin

iø ir

pol

i-tin

iø p

abëg

ëliø

bei

neá

galiø

jø,

kurie

net

Lie

tuvo

jeið

lieka

dai

ktai

s ar

ba n

eám

anom

ais,

neá

site

nkan

èiai

s á

ydin

gà li

etuv

iðkà

To

Patie

s fa

ntaz

ijø r

atà.

Gin

taut

as M

aþei

kis

Biblioteka

EEmmiissiijja 220044 –– ÐÐMMCCLLeeiiddëëjjass: ÐÐiiuuoollaiikkiinniioo mmeennoo cceennttrrass,, VViillnniiuuss,, 220055PPuubblliisshheerr: CCoonntteemmppoorrarryy AArrtt CCeennttrree,, VViillnniiuuss,, 22005511440 pp..IISBBNN 998866--95577--2266--55

20 21miniø panaðumø? Ar manote, kad BMW parodà galima laikyti realaus dydþio greitosios pagalbos rinkiniu, instaliuojamu tiesiai á smegenis kartu su þaibiðku iðliki- mo katastrofos atveju (realiu ar ásivaizduojamu) kursu? Kodël ëmëtës tokios neaiðkios, nors ir pasaulinio masto, logotipø distribucijos kovo mënesá, o Venecijos

AArrtt

ûûrrass

Raii

llaRoo

llll OO

vveerr

MMuuss

eeuumm

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: IIBB

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2200

553344

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199

7 m

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ûras

Rai

la þ

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ruoj

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eno

scen

os u

þdar

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ryþt

inga

i gria

unan

èiai

s pe

rfor

man

-sa

is,

vide

oins

talia

cijo

mis

ir m

iðriø

med

ijø k

ûrin

iais

. Jo

orga

nizu

otø

akci

jø ir

kitø

„re

gini

ø“ e

pice

ntru

daþ

nai

tam

pa Ð

iuol

aiki

nio

men

o ce

ntra

s V

ilniu

je.

Taèi

au ð

iø„r

egin

iø“

paka

rtoj

imai

ar

net

prem

jero

s vy

ko L

ince

irG

race

Aus

trijo

je,

Turk

u Su

omijo

je b

ei K

roat

ijos,

Latv

ijos,

Est

ijos

ir Vo

kiet

ijos

sost

inës

e, t

aip

pat

ir au

to-

riaus

vai

kyst

ës m

iest

e Li

etuv

os p

rovi

ncijo

je –

Pane

vëþy

je.

2004

met

ais

Han

saba

nko

Raila

i sut

eikt

a pr

emija

paga

liau

tapo

pre

teks

tu ir

gal

imyb

e vi

sà a

ðtuo

neriø

met

ø ve

iklà

ats

pind

ëti l

eidi

nyje

. N

ors

Raila

iki ð

iol n

ëra

iðle

idæs

në

vien

o pe

rson

alin

io k

atal

ogo,

jis

ir ðá

kar

tàne

siëm

ë ið

sam

iai d

okum

entu

oti s

avo

kûry

bos.

Á ka

ta-

logà

ne

tik n

eátr

aukt

i dar

bai i

ki 1

997-

øjø,

kuo

met

visi

ðkai

per

eita

prie

per

form

ansø

ir n

aujø

med

ijø,

bet

irpa

star

øjø

met

ø kû

ryba

pris

taty

ta f

ragm

entið

kai.

Railo

spa

sirin

ktà

leid

inio

kon

cepc

ijà t

iksl

iaus

iai g

alim

a bû

tøap

ibûd

inti

kaip

dar

vie

nà k

ûrin

á – m

enin

inko

kny

gà.

Taèi

au t

ai n

ëra

ir gr

ynas

ðio

þan

ro d

arba

s, n

es s

var-

biau

si p

roje

ktai

kny

goje

pris

tato

mi c

hron

olog

iðka

i ir

gaus

iai d

okum

entu

ojam

i. Ti

esa,

par

inkt

a va

izdi

nëm

edþi

aga

neat

kuria

nuo

sekl

ios

akci

jø e

igos

ar

vide

o-da

rbø

sekv

enci

jø s

ekos

. A

tidar

ymo

scen

oms

ir pu

blik

osnu

otra

ukom

s èi

a sk

irta

tiek

pat

dëm

esio

kie

k ir

paèi

øda

rbø

repr

oduk

cijo

ms.

Kny

goje

pub

likuo

jam

i lab

ai t

rum

pi r

epro

duku

otø

kûrin

iø a

prað

ymai

ang

lø k

alba

, te

lpan

tys

á vie

nà p

usla

pá

– kn

ygos

tur

iná.

Joje

nër

a kr

itikø

tek

stø,

rec

enzi

jø,

patie

s m

enin

inko

pas

isak

ymø.

Vie

toje

jø k

iekv

ieno

pro

-je

kto

vaiz

dinæ

dok

umen

taci

jà ly

di t

uðti

pusl

apia

i, pa

likti

„prir

aðyt

i“ p

aèia

m k

nygo

s va

rtot

ojui

. Þo

dþio

„sk

aity

to-

jas“

nev

arto

ju s

àmon

inga

i, ne

s ak

ivai

zdu,

kad

aut

oriu

stik

isi a

ktyv

aus

knyg

os v

arto

tojo

-þiû

rovo

, ku

ris li

nkæs

kom

entu

oti,

disk

utuo

ti ir

klau

sti.

Raila

èia

pro

voku

oja

pana

ðiai

kai

p ir

savo

kûr

yboj

e, r

eika

laud

amas

uþi

mti

neab

ejin

gà ir

aið

kià

visu

omen

inæ

pozi

cijà

. Be

abe

jo,

visi

ems,

pris

imen

antie

ms

Railo

s pr

ojek

tus,

tai

pad

aryt

ibu

s ne

sunk

u. T

aèia

u kn

yga

nesu

teik

ia g

alim

ybës

ðià

patir

tá pa

pild

yti n

auja

med

þiag

a –

patie

s au

toria

us a

r jo

kûry

bos

þino

vø m

intim

is.

Dar

sun

kiau

bus

tie

ms,

kur

ie p

aim

s kn

ygà

á ran

kas

neþi

noda

mi R

ailo

s kû

rybo

s. J

iem

s ga

li pr

itrûk

ti el

emen

-ta

rios

info

rmac

ijos,

neb

ekal

bant

api

e ga

limyb

æ su

vokt

isu

dëtin

gos

polit

inës

, so

cial

inës

ir m

oral

inës

men

inin

kokû

ryba

i bûd

ingo

s po

lem

ikos

dis

kurs

à. R

aila

sav

o pr

o-je

ktam

s re

nkas

i eks

ploz

ijom

gra

sina

nèia

s te

mas

: m

ar-

gina

liniu

s vi

suom

enës

slu

oksn

ius,

bed

arby

stæ,

naci

onal

istø

judë

jimà.

Jis

kal

ba ir

api

e m

eno

mok

ymo

kriz

es,

tyrin

ëja

ribas

tar

p vi

eðø

men

o in

stitu

cijø

ir a

lter-

naty

viø

kitu

ose

visu

omen

ës s

luok

sniu

ose

besi

vyst

anèi

økû

rybi

niø

raið

kos

form

ø. Ð

i kny

ga p

erne

lyg

frag

men

tið-

ka,

kad

atsk

leis

tø t

okiø

tem

ø ko

mpl

eksi

ðkum

à, o

vaiz

dinë

jos

dalis

nep

ajëg

i atk

urti

spec

ifinë

s Ra

ilos

per-

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ansa

ms

ir vi

deop

roje

kcijo

ms

bûdi

ngos

agr

esyv

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prov

okuo

janè

ios

átam

pos.

Mat

yt,

todë

l ir

pats

aut

oriu

sak

cent

uoja

fra

gmen

tiðkà

kny

gos

sand

aros

pob

ûdá.

Ðikn

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atsi

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kitø

men

inin

ko k

ûrin

iø p

agrin

du,

ta-

èiau

, no

rs ir

neb

ûdam

a vi

siðk

ai a

uton

omið

ka,

ji vi

s tik

tam

pa ið

raið

king

u sa

vara

nkið

ku m

enin

iu o

bjek

tu.

Ram

inta

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98866--

95577--

2255--77

Eglë

s Ra

kaus

kaitë

s, k

aip

Art

ûro

Railo

s, k

nyga

prik

laus

ota

m p

aèia

m m

enin

inko

kny

gos

þanr

ui.

Taèi

au jo

spa

sirin

ktas

iðei

ties

taðk

as –

kito

ks.

Raka

uska

itës

knyg

o-je

dom

inuo

ja g

ausa

us a

utor

iø b

ûrio

ese

istin

iai t

ekst

ai ir

inte

rviu

, ili

ustr

uoja

mi v

ideo

film

ø ka

drai

s. V

isi 2

000-

2004

met

ais

suku

rti f

ilmai

sud

aro

savo

tiðkà

cik

là,

ku-

riam

e au

torë

, pa

site

lkus

i vai

zdo

kam

erà

ir pa

sirin

kusi

neut

rala

us s

tebë

tojo

poz

icijà

, do

kum

entu

oja

ávai

rius

soci

alin

ius

reið

kini

us.

Film

uoda

ma

ji pr

alei

dþia

die

nàdi

dþia

usio

je B

altij

os ð

aliø

tur

gavi

etëj

e G

ariû

nuos

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tebi

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rtu

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sist

ente

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igra

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sla

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mer

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goje

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film

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rista

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frag

men

tiðka

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leis

ti nu

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apild

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uri è

ia t

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pagr

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ne.

Raka

uska

itës

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kirt

i du

esë

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imun

do M

alað

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imës

fakt

oriu

sir

Art

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Tere

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o D

vigu

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sup

er-

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ilgsn

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sipr

ieði

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àbe

i Alfo

nso

And

riuðk

eviè

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inte

rviu

su

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mer

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igia

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oko

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Raka

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didþ

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enin

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Man

oad

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amas

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dam

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iche

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ucau

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Ann

os F

reid

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akau

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ip „

bruk

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norm

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veni

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esan

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rupe

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Did

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èios

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ti in

terv

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Pana

ðiai

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iuos

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vo d

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Rak

ausk

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gru

pei m

oter

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ën,

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skle

isda

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ocijø

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aity

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ip ir

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atie

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ocia

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tem

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dam

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tas

mot

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enin

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ti sa

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net

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rum

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tur

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bet

svar

biø

para

leliø

su

men

inin

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os jo

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nata

Dub

insk

aitë

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ika

Grig

orav

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ë N

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Gie

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Radv

ilavi

èiût

ë,So

nata

Þal

nier

aviè

iûtë

ir,

spëj

u, p

o el

ektr

onin

io p

aðto

adre

su p

ykta

@on

e.lt

besi

slep

ianè

ioji

– gy

vena

Viln

iuje

,di

rba

kultû

ros

srity

je,

kai k

urio

s ta

ip p

at d

aug

kelia

vu-

sios

ir b

andþ

iusi

os u

þsid

irbti

dirb

dam

os n

e pa

gal p

rofe

-si

jà.

Inte

rviu

cik

las

pras

ided

a kl

ausi

mu

„Ar

Viln

ius

–ðv

entë

, ku

ri vi

sada

su

jum

is?“

. Yp

atin

ga,

net

skau

smin

-ga

ðio

s te

mos

sva

rba

paèi

ai m

enin

inke

i ats

iskl

eidþ

ia jo

spo

kalb

yje

su A

ndriu

ðkev

ièiu

mi:

„Man

o su

sidv

ejin

usi

asm

enyb

ë pr

ie V

ilnia

us y

ra p

risiri

ðusi

tik

kai

p pr

ieat

skai

tos

taðk

o“.

Ðis

„tik

“ ne

átiki

na ir

ver

èia

abej

oti,

nes

argi

ats

kaito

s ta

ðkas

gal

i rei

kðti

„tik

“. K

laus

i-në

dam

a ki

tø,

Viln

iuje

gim

usiø

, uþ

augu

siø

ar è

iaat

sikë

lusi

ø m

oter

ø, R

akau

skai

të t

yrin

ëja

ir sa

vo p

aèio

ssa

ntyk

á su

ðiuo

mie

stu.

Á ki

tus

klau

sim

us –

„A

rSM

S’in

imas

tap

s lit

erat

ûros

isto

rijos

dal

imi?

“, „

Ar

teko

tà p

atá s

apnà

sap

nuot

i kel

is k

artu

s?“,

„Je

i suþ

ino-

tum

ëte,

kad

ryt

bus

pas

aulio

pab

aiga

, ka

ip n

ugyv

en-

tum

ëte

ðià

dien

à?“,

„K

okio

je s

ituac

ijoje

maþ

iaus

iai

norë

tum

ëte

bûti

nufo

togr

afuo

ta,

nufil

muo

ta?“

–at

saki

nëja

ma

laba

i asm

enið

kai,

impr

oviz

uoja

nt,

nukr

yp-

stan

t á p

risim

inim

us.

Poet

ines

met

afor

as è

ia la

isva

ike

ièia

soc

iolo

gini

ai p

amàs

tym

ai a

r pa

rado

ksal

ûspa

reið

kim

ai.

Kei

èias

i, ba

nguo

ja ir

pat

s at

saky

mø

tona

s,pe

reid

amas

nuo

dal

ykið

ko p

rie m

elan

chol

iðko

, iro

niðk

oar

tie

siog

link

smo.

Gal

ø ga

le t

ai g

raþi

ese

istin

ë lit

era-

tûra

. Ir

nors

kny

gos

gale

ádët

a Ra

kaus

kaitë

s kû

rybi

nëbi

ogra

fija,

ðis

leid

inys

nep

anað

us n

ei á

kûry

bos

kata

-lo

gà,

nei á

pro

jekt

ø ci

klo

doku

men

taci

jà.

Ir vi

s tik

api

eEg

læ (

egl?

) su

þino

me

daug

, no

rs ji

kai

p vi

sada

iðlie

katy

laus

ste

bëto

jo v

aidm

enyj

e.

Ram

inta

Jur

ënai

të

AArrtt

ûûrrass

Raii

lla

Roollll

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rr MM

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IISBBNN

9988

66--6666

9--4422

--11

Sinc

e 19

97 A

rtûr

as R

aila

has

bee

n sh

ocki

ng h

is s

pect

a-to

rs w

ith a

who

le r

aft

of d

eter

min

ed p

erfo

rman

ces,

vide

o, v

ideo

inst

alla

tions

, an

d m

ixed

med

ia w

orks

. Th

eC

onte

mpo

rary

Art

Cen

ter

was

usu

ally

the

epi

cent

er o

fhi

s ac

tions

and

oth

er ‘

even

ts’.

At

the

sam

e tim

e re

pe-

titio

ns o

f th

ese

‘act

ions

’ or

eve

n th

eir

prem

iere

s to

ok a

plac

e in

muc

h w

ider

geo

grap

hy b

y re

sett

ing

them

inpa

n-Eu

rope

an lo

catio

ns in

clud

ing:

Lin

z an

d G

raz,

Aus

tria

; Tu

rku,

Fin

land

; th

e C

roat

ian,

Lat

vian

, Es

toni

anan

d G

erm

any

capi

tals

; as

wel

l as

Pane

vëþy

s th

e pr

ovin

-ci

al L

ithua

nian

tow

n of

his

chi

ldho

od.

A p

rize

best

owed

by

Han

saba

nk,

offe

red

pret

ext

and

poss

ibili

ty t

o m

irror

eig

ht y

ears

of

crea

tive

wor

k in

apr

inte

d fo

rm.

Alth

ough

Rai

la s

till h

asn’

t be

en t

he s

ub-

ject

of

a m

onog

raph

ic c

atal

ogue

he

does

not

set

him

-se

lf th

at p

artic

ular

tas

k. H

e do

es n

ot s

eek

a co

mpr

e-he

nsiv

e do

cum

enta

tion

of h

is c

reat

ive

wor

k. H

e ev

enre

noun

ces

his

oeuv

re p

rior

to 1

997

whi

le h

e cr

eate

dsc

ulpt

ures

and

obj

ects

of

scul

ptur

e; o

nly

docu

men

ting

the

tran

sfor

mat

ion

to p

erfo

rman

ce a

nd n

ew m

edia

.Ev

en t

his

is p

rese

nted

in f

ragm

ents

. Th

e co

ncep

tion

ofth

e pu

blic

atio

n is

pro

babl

y be

st d

escr

ibed

as

anot

her

wor

k of

art

– a

n ar

tist’s

boo

k. H

owev

er it

isn’

t st

rictly

repr

esen

tativ

e of

the

gen

re;

as h

is m

ost

impo

rtan

tpr

ojec

ts s

ince

199

7 ar

e pr

esen

ted

chro

nolo

gica

lly a

ndill

ustr

ated

ple

ntifu

lly in

pho

togr

aphs

. Th

e tr

uth

is t

hat

the

way

the

se p

hoto

grap

hs a

re c

hose

n do

es n

ot s

eek

to r

ecre

ate

the

mot

ion

of a

ctio

ns o

r vi

deo

wor

ks in

sequ

ence

. Sc

enes

of

exhi

bitio

n op

enin

gs o

r sc

enes

of

the

publ

ic a

tten

ding

the

m a

re a

war

ded

the

sam

eam

ount

of

atte

ntio

n as

the

rep

rodu

ctio

ns o

f th

e w

orks

of a

rt.

Ther

e ar

e ve

ry s

hort

des

crip

tions

of

proj

ects

, fil

ling

just

one

intr

oduc

tion

page

of

the

book

– t

he c

onte

nt (

ofw

hich

onl

y an

Eng

lish

vers

ion

is g

iven

, w

ithou

t a

Lith

uani

an o

ne).

Ther

e ar

e no

ne o

f th

e us

ual t

extu

alre

quis

ites:

tex

ts b

y cr

itics

, re

view

s or

com

men

ts o

f th

eau

thor

him

self

in t

he b

ook.

Pla

in w

hite

pag

es a

rein

terle

aved

with

the

pho

togr

aphi

c pr

esen

tatio

ns e

ach

blan

k pr

ojec

t se

ctio

n m

ay b

e ‘f

illed

’ by

eac

h ‘u

ser’

of

the

book

(I c

onsc

ious

ly a

void

the

wor

d ‘r

eade

r’).

Raila

mus

t be

hop

ing

for

an a

ctiv

e us

er –

a s

pect

ator

of

the

book

who

is in

clin

ed t

o co

mm

ent,

dis

cuss

or

ques

tion.

Her

e as

wel

l as

in h

is p

erfo

rman

ces

or v

ideo

s Ra

ilapr

ovok

es,

dem

andi

ng h

is a

udie

nce

to t

ake

up a

con

-cr

ete

publ

ic p

ositi

on.

With

out

doub

t an

ybod

y w

ho h

asse

en R

aila

’s pr

ojec

ts w

ill h

ave

it ea

sy a

s th

ere

are

plen

-ty

of

mem

orie

s to

use

. A

t th

e sa

me

time

this

pub

lica-

tion

does

not

giv

e a

chan

ce t

o en

rich

this

exp

erie

nce

thro

ugh

addi

tiona

l mat

eria

l pro

vide

d by

the

aut

hor

him

self

or r

efle

ctio

ns o

f ex

pert

s on

his

cre

ativ

e ou

tput

.

Thos

e w

ho p

ick-

up t

his

book

for

the

firs

t tim

e an

d ar

eno

t fa

mili

ar w

ith R

aila

’s w

ork

will

hav

e an

eve

n a

hard

-er

tim

e. T

hey

may

fin

d a

lack

of

basi

c in

form

atio

n no

tev

en s

peak

ing

abou

t ta

king

a g

rip o

f co

mpl

icat

edpo

litic

al s

ocia

l or

mor

al p

olem

ic d

isco

urse

s. R

aila

choo

ses

expl

osiv

e an

d th

reat

enin

g su

bjec

ts:

mar

gina

lst

rata

of

soci

ety,

une

mpl

oym

ent

and

a [f

asci

stic

]na

tiona

list

mov

emen

t. H

e sp

eaks

of

the

cris

is in

art

teac

hing

and

exp

lore

s bo

unda

ries

betw

een

art

in p

ub-

lic in

stitu

tions

and

dev

elop

ing

form

s of

art

istic

exp

res-

sion

s in

the

alte

rnat

ive

stra

ta o

f so

ciet

y. T

his

book

isto

o fr

agm

ente

d in

its

char

acte

r to

exp

licat

e th

e co

m-

plex

ity o

f su

ch t

hem

es o

r in

dica

te w

hich

is m

ore

impo

rtan

t. P

hoto

grap

hic

docu

men

tatio

n is

not

abl

e to

reco

nstr

uct

the

spec

ific

prov

ocat

ive

tens

ion

of R

aila

’spe

rfor

man

ces

and

vide

o pr

ojec

tions

. Th

e ar

tist

mus

tbe

aw

are

of t

his

as h

e em

phas

izes

the

fra

gmen

ted

char

acte

r of

thi

s vi

sual

mat

eria

l. Th

is b

ook

com

es t

olif

e on

the

bas

is o

f pr

evio

us w

orks

by

the

artis

t –

but

even

if it

isn’

t co

mpl

etel

y au

tono

mou

s –

it is

stil

l an

inde

pend

ent

obje

ct o

f ar

t.

Ram

inta

Jur

ënai

të

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auusskk

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IISBBNN

9988

66--955

77--2255

--77

Eglë

Rak

ausk

aitë

’s ar

tist’s

boo

k be

long

s to

the

sam

ege

nre

as R

aila

’s. A

t th

e sa

me

time

she

chos

e an

othe

rst

artin

g po

int.

Ess

ayis

tic t

exts

by

seve

ral a

utho

rs a

ndin

terv

iew

s [w

ith t

he a

rtis

t] il

lust

rate

d w

ith s

lips

ofvi

deo

still

s re

pres

enta

tive

of h

er w

orks

dom

inat

eRa

kaus

kaitë

’s bo

ok.

In t

oto,

the

vid

eos

mad

e be

twee

n20

02 a

nd 2

004

com

pose

a k

ind

of c

ycle

whe

re b

yw

ith (

the

help

of)

her

cam

era

Raka

uska

itë v

oyeu

risti-

cally

, do

cum

ente

d va

rious

soc

ial o

ccur

renc

es –

fro

mth

e po

sitio

n of

bys

tand

er.

She

spen

ds a

day

inG

ariû

nai,

the

bigg

est

‘bla

ck’

mar

ket

in t

he B

altic

regi

on,

loca

ted

on t

he V

ilniu

s ci

ty-li

mits

, w

ith h

er c

am-

era.

Em

ploy

ing

the

help

of

an a

ssis

tant

, sh

e su

rvey

ssh

oppe

rs in

a s

uper

mar

ket.

She

tel

ls t

he s

tory

of

am

onke

y w

hich

is u

sed

for

ente

rtai

nmen

t an

d ad

vert

is-

ing.

And

eve

n m

akes

a p

ortr

ait

of h

erse

lf w

orki

ng in

the

role

of

an il

lega

l alie

n; n

ursi

ng a

n el

derly

par

alys

edw

oman

in C

hica

go.

The

still

s of

the

se v

ideo

s ar

e ch

o-se

n ra

ndom

ly,

with

out

trac

ing

of a

con

secu

tive

orde

ror

chr

onol

ogic

al s

eque

nces

; th

e m

ain

atte

ntio

n is

con

-ce

ntra

ted

on s

uppl

emen

tary

mat

eria

l (w

hich

bec

omes

prim

ary

here

).

Ther

e ar

e on

ly t

wo

essa

ys in

the

boo

k –

Fact

or o

f Fe

arby

Rai

mun

das

Mal

aðau

skas

and

Dou

ble

Plea

sure

:A

bout

Pow

er,

Surv

eilla

nce,

and

Per

form

ance

byA

rtûr

as T

ereð

kina

s pl

us a

n in

terv

iew

with

the

art

ist

byse

nior

aca

dem

icia

n A

lfons

as A

ndriu

ðkev

ièiu

s –

the

poin

t is

mor

e th

e cr

eativ

e w

ork

of R

akau

skai

të.

In h

ises

say

Mal

aðau

skas

ana

lyse

s th

e m

echa

nism

s of

the

extr

eme

man

ipul

atio

ns o

f re

ality

TV

vie

wer

s in

the

Uni

ted

Stat

es,

writ

ing

that

, “R

ealit

y TV

cul

ture

and

the

shoc

k in

dust

ry b

rings

eno

ugh

light

to

unde

rsta

nd E

glë

Raka

uska

itë’s

vide

os,

espe

cial

ly M

y A

mer

ica

bett

er“.

Tere

ðkin

as m

ostly

bas

es h

is e

ssay

on

the

new

est

vide

oM

y A

ddre

ss is

nei

ther

a H

ouse

nor

a S

tree

t, M

yA

ddre

ss is

a S

hopp

ing

Cen

ter

and

inte

rpre

ts t

he la

tter

with

the

hel

p of

Mic

hel F

ouca

ult’s

and

Ann

eFr

iedb

erg’

s th

eorie

s. H

e lo

cate

s an

ove

rwhe

lmin

g su

r-ve

illan

ce o

f da

ily li

fe in

con

tem

pora

ry s

ocie

ty a

ndot

her

mec

hani

sms

of p

ower

in R

akau

skai

të’s

wor

ks.

Alfo

nsas

And

riuðk

eviè

ius

is p

redo

min

antly

inte

rest

ed in

Raka

uska

itë’s

“nom

adis

m“

as a

n ar

tist.

He

uses

the

term

to

desc

ribe

the

phen

omen

on o

f ar

tists

wor

king

in o

ther

cou

ntrie

s an

d “f

acin

g to

war

ds s

ocia

l gro

ups

whi

ch a

re f

ar a

way

fro

m t

he ‘

norm

al c

ultu

re’

and

‘nor

-m

al’

life“

.

The

larg

est

port

ion

of t

he b

ook

cons

ists

of

inte

rvie

ws

take

n by

the

art

ist

hers

elf.

Lik

e in

her

vid

eos,

Raka

uska

itë in

an

inte

rvie

w w

ith a

gro

up o

f w

omen

seem

s at

firs

t gl

ace

to s

ides

tep

thei

r qu

estio

ning

not

betr

ayin

g he

r ow

n th

ough

ts a

nd e

mot

ions

. A

t th

esa

me

time

she

leav

es a

lot

of s

pace

for

the

rea

der

(just

like

the

view

er)

to d

evel

op h

is o

r he

r ow

n as

soci

atio

ns.

In t

he w

ay t

hat

the

them

es a

nd q

uest

ions

are

cho

sen

we

feel

tha

t in

que

stio

ning

her

coe

vals

– y

oung

er a

ndol

der

wom

en –

the

art

ist

seek

s to

und

erst

and

hers

elf.

We

won

’t f

ind

any

biog

raph

ies

of t

he p

eopl

e qu

es-

tione

d (w

hich

will

be

sure

ly m

isse

d by

the

for

eign

read

ers)

. H

owev

er a

ll of

the

m:

Aus

tëja

Èep

ausk

aitë

,Re

nata

Dub

insk

aitë

, Er

ika

Grig

orav

ièie

në,

Laim

aK

reiv

ytë,

Mon

ika

Krið

topa

itytë

, Rû

ta M

ikði

onie

në,

Agn

ë N

aruð

ytë,

Gie

dra

Radv

ilavi

èiût

ë, S

onat

aÞa

lnie

ravi

èiût

ë, a

s w

ell a

s th

e on

e hi

ding

und

er t

hein

tern

et a

ddre

ss p

ykta

@on

e.lt,

hav

e in

dire

ct b

utim

port

ant

biog

raph

ic p

aral

lels

with

the

art

ist.

The

y al

lliv

e in

Viln

ius,

wor

k in

the

fie

ld o

f cu

lture

and

som

e of

them

hav

e al

so t

rave

led

a lo

t an

d tr

ied

to e

arn

at le

ast

som

ethi

ng w

hile

doi

ng w

ork

not

conn

ecte

d to

the

irpr

ofes

sion

, m

ostly

in f

ield

s of

med

ical

att

enda

nce

and

serv

ice.

The

inte

rvie

w c

ycle

sta

rts

with

a q

uest

ion

“Do

You

Thin

k V

ilniu

s Is

A M

ovea

ble

Feas

t?“.

The

spe

cial

and

pain

ful i

mpo

rtan

ce o

f th

is t

hem

e to

the

art

ist

her-

self

reve

als

in h

er d

iscu

ssio

n w

ith A

ndriu

ðkev

ièiu

s. S

hesa

ys h

ere,

“M

y do

uble

per

sona

lity

is c

onne

cted

to

Viln

ius

just

as

a st

artin

g po

int“

. Th

is ‘

just

’ do

es n

otso

und

pers

uadi

ng a

nd in

vite

s do

ubt;

can

a s

tart

ing

poin

t be

som

ethi

ng ‘

just

’? B

y qu

estio

ning

oth

er n

ativ

eV

ilniu

s na

tives

/res

iden

ts s

he e

xplo

res

her

own

rela

tion

to t

he c

ity.

Oth

ers

follo

w t

his

inte

rvie

w q

uest

ion,

for

inst

ance

: “W

ill t

he S

MSi

ng B

ecom

e A

Par

t of

Wor

ldLi

tera

ture

?“ “

Hav

e Yo

u Ev

er H

ad t

he S

ame

Dre

amSe

vera

l Tim

es?“

“If

You

Foun

d O

ut T

hat

Tom

orro

w is

The

End

Of

The

Wor

ld,

Toda

y Yo

u W

ould

…?“

“In

Wha

t K

ind

of S

ituat

ion,

Mom

ent

Wou

ld Y

ou L

east

like

Bein

g Ph

otog

raph

ed?“

The

inte

rvie

wee

s re

ply

very

pers

onal

ly,

they

impr

ovis

e an

d dr

ift t

owar

ds e

xhau

stiv

em

emor

ies

and

cons

ider

atio

ns a

s w

ell a

s gi

ve la

coni

can

swer

s. H

ere

poet

ic m

etap

hors

fre

ely

alte

rnat

e w

ithso

ciol

ogic

al c

onsi

dera

tions

and

par

adox

ical

sta

tem

ents

.Th

e to

ne o

f st

atem

ents

is c

hang

ing

and

wav

ing.

Som

etim

es it

is ‘

just

’ bu

sine

ss a

nd a

t ot

her

times

mel

anch

olic

, iro

nic

or ju

st f

unny

. It

is in

tere

stin

g to

read

bec

ause

of

the

expo

sitio

n of

per

sona

l eve

nts

and

the

expe

rienc

e of

fee

lings

. A

fter

all

inte

rvie

ws

are

nice

to r

ead

liter

atur

e. A

lthou

gh a

t th

e en

d of

the

boo

kth

ere

is a

n ar

tist’s

bio

grap

hy,

this

pub

licat

ion

is h

ardl

ysi

mila

r to

a f

ull m

onog

raph

ic c

atal

ogue

or

even

a p

lain

proj

ect

docu

men

tatio

n of

. St

ill w

e le

arn

a lo

t ab

out

Eglë

(eg

l?)

alth

ough

, as

alw

ays,

she

rem

ains

in t

he r

ole

of a

sile

nt o

bser

ver.

Ram

inta

Jur

ënai

të

BibliotekaLibrary

22 23

AAuudd

rroonnëë

ÞÞuukk

auusskk

aiittëë

AAnna

mmoorr

pphhooss

eess:

NNoonn

--FFuunn

ddamm

eenntta

ll PPrroo

bblleemm

ss ooff

PPhhiilloo

ssoopphh

yyPPuu

bblliiss

hheerr:

VVeerr

ssuuss

AAuurr

eeuuss,,

VViillnn

iiuuss,,

2200

552255

66 pp..

IISBBNN

9955

55--660

11--4466

--9

IImmppoo

ssssiibb

llee R

eealliitt

iieess

anndd

““AAnna

mmoorr

pphhooss

eess””

ooff DD

eessiirree

Aud

ronë

Þuk

ausk

aitë

’s A

nam

orph

oses

expl

ains

man

ypr

oble

ms

rais

ed in

her

ear

lier

book

Bey

ond

the

Sign

ifier

Prin

cipl

e: d

econ

stru

ctio

n, p

sych

oana

lysi

s, c

ri-tiq

ue o

f id

eolo

gy (

2001

) an

d, a

t th

e sa

me

time,

ret

ro-

spec

tivel

y de

fines

the

fie

ld s

he h

as b

een

inve

stig

atin

gfo

r m

any

year

s. In

the

new

mon

ogra

ph w

e’ll

mee

t he

rfa

vorit

e he

roes

: de

cons

truc

tion

and

Jacq

ues

Der

rida,

psyc

hoan

alys

is a

nd J

acqu

es L

acan

, cr

itiqu

e of

ideo

lo-

gies

, Lo

uis

Alth

usse

r an

d Sl

avoj

Þiþ

ek,

but

also

new

face

s an

d ne

w c

halle

nges

of

the

wor

ld t

hat

dem

and

philo

soph

er’s

expl

anat

ions

. Th

e to

pics

of

univ

ersa

lity

ofde

sire

and

impo

ssib

ility

of

the

Real

are

exp

lore

d m

ore

deep

ly a

nd f

orem

ost

in r

elat

ion

to g

ende

r. H

ere

the

auth

or c

onsi

sten

tly a

ppea

ls t

o th

e w

ritin

gs o

f Ju

dith

Butle

r an

d Ju

lia K

riste

va.

Mor

eove

r, th

e ne

w b

ook

con-

side

rs c

onte

mpo

rary

art

and

cin

ema

in r

elat

ion

to t

heth

eorie

s of

dou

ble

refle

ctio

n, c

onst

ruct

ion

of a

sub

ject

,tr

ansg

ress

ion

of g

ende

r an

d jo

uiss

ance

. Re

stin

g on

Guy

Deb

ord,

the

aut

hor

show

s ho

w t

he s

ocia

l spe

c-ta

cle,

pro

duce

d by

the

indu

stry

, gr

adua

lly o

ccup

ies

the

varie

ty o

f co

nsum

ers’

vie

ws

with

out

leav

ing

spac

e fo

rw

hat

coul

d be

des

crib

ed w

ith t

he w

ords

of

Raou

lVa

neig

em:

“rev

olut

ion

of t

he e

very

day”

. Bu

t is

n’t

Þuka

uska

itë’s

criti

cism

, ai

med

aga

inst

the

imita

tions

of

man

’s po

wer

, so

ciet

y’s

iden

tific

atio

n w

ith p

rodu

ctio

nof

sig

ns a

nd p

ublic

spe

ctac

les,

mor

e ra

dica

l tha

n th

atof

the

Situ

atio

nist

s, w

ho s

till s

aw t

he p

ossi

bilit

y of

revo

lutio

n an

d ra

dica

l cha

nge?

Reeall

iittyy a

nndd ss

uubbjjee

cctt a

rree cc

rreeatt

eedd a

nndd ee

nnabbll

eedd bb

yy ddii

ss--ccoo

uurrssee

..Fo

llow

ing

Laca

n, Þ

ukau

skai

të m

akes

a c

lear

dist

inct

ion

betw

een

real

ity (

la r

éalit

é) a

nd t

he R

eal (

leré

el).

The

dist

inct

ion

betw

een

real

ity a

nd t

he R

eal c

or-

resp

onds

with

the

bin

ary

oppo

sitio

ns t

hat

the

auth

orem

ploy

s to

dis

cuss

the

rea

lm o

f po

litic

s. R

efer

ring

toM

iche

l Fou

caul

t, s

he m

akes

dis

tinct

ion

betw

een

“zoe

,w

hich

sta

nds

for

a ba

re a

nd s

impl

e fa

ct o

f lif

e, c

om-

mon

for

all

live

bein

gs,

and

bios

, w

hich

indi

cate

s th

efo

rm a

nd m

ode

of li

ving

” (p

.117

). Id

eolo

gy,

polit

ics

and

art

are

way

s to

sep

arat

e on

esel

f fr

om “

bare

liv-

ing”

, to

neg

ate

ones

ow

n zo

e. B

are

livin

g is

nev

erdr

agge

d in

to t

he b

orde

rs o

f sy

mbo

lic s

igni

fican

ce,

but

repl

aced

with

acc

epta

ble

orde

rs o

f si

gns.

But

tod

ay,

whe

n th

e va

les

are

bein

g re

plac

ed b

y pr

oduc

t va

lues

,ba

re li

fe c

ontin

ually

str

ains

to

the

cent

ral p

art

of p

oliti

-ca

l life

, th

e ar

ena,

fro

m it

s m

argi

ns.

Þuka

uska

itë’s

rem

ark

allo

ws

a di

scus

sion

abo

ut c

onte

mpo

rary

pop

u-lis

m,

mar

gina

lia a

nd t

heir

thru

st t

o th

e po

litic

al a

rena

as r

esul

ts o

f th

e co

nsum

eris

t in

dust

ry’s

and

soci

ety’

ssp

ecta

cle.

Þuk

ausk

aitë

rec

alls

the

fig

ure

of h

omo

sace

ran

d ob

serv

es it

s fa

ll, it

s be

com

ing

triv

ial,

its a

rtis

tic,

gend

er a

nd e

cono

mic

dec

line.

CCoonn

cceeall

mmeenn

tt ooff

tthhee

eemm

ppttiinn

eessss

anndd

tthhee

mmyyss

tteerryy

ooff

NNoott

hhiinngg

nneessss

. A

lthus

ser

writ

es t

hat

subj

ect

is a

res

ult

ofdi

scur

sive

inte

rpel

latio

n or

, el

sew

here

, th

at it

is a

n ou

t-co

me

of t

he f

unct

ioni

ng o

f id

eolo

gies

. Þu

kaus

kaitë

stat

es t

hat

“a c

onte

mpo

rary

sub

ject

is n

othi

ng m

ore

than

a s

pect

acle

” (p

. 21

0),

and

I wou

ld a

dd t

hat

som

etim

es it

is a

dra

ma.

Spe

ctac

le,

carn

ival

and

mas

-qu

erad

e cr

eate

bot

h su

bjec

t an

d ob

ject

min

uscu

le a

.Th

e m

oder

n do

uble

mim

esis

(re

petit

ion

of p

lays

), su

b-se

rvie

nce

to t

he m

irror

ref

lect

ion,

loya

lty t

o th

e sc

reen

– al

l of

thes

e ar

e th

e st

rate

gies

of

conc

ealin

g th

eem

ptin

ess.

The

aut

hor

rem

arks

: on

ce w

e di

sclo

se t

hem

yste

ry o

f do

uble

imita

tion,

we

will

be

disa

ppoi

nted

,be

caus

e th

e m

asqu

erad

e hi

des

noth

ing

and

the

spec

-ta

cle

is t

he o

nly

esse

nce

of r

ealit

y. I

belie

ve t

hat

the

dram

a is

rel

ated

to

the

stat

emen

t of

em

ptin

ess,

the

trag

ic e

ffor

t to

sur

mou

nt t

he v

eil o

f id

eolo

gies

,be

caus

e th

e vi

ctor

y on

ly r

evea

ls N

othi

ngne

ss.

Bein

gne

ver

appe

ars

in Þ

ukau

skai

të’s

text

s, a

lthou

gh,

if w

efo

llow

Mar

tin H

eide

gger

and

Arv

ydas

Ðlio

geris

, w

hom

she

cite

s, t

he d

enia

l or

nega

tion

of im

ages

indi

cate

sbe

ing

as it

s ow

n lim

it. T

he a

ppea

ranc

e of

bei

ng w

ould

be a

n in

adm

issi

ble

luxu

ry a

nd w

eakn

ess

that

we

wou

ld h

ardl

y fin

d in

Þuk

ausk

aitë

’s w

ritin

g. H

ardl

y, –

beca

use

time

afte

r tim

e sh

e m

entio

ns r

ealit

y, t

heim

poss

ible

cha

nce,

indi

cate

d by

the

sym

ptom

s th

at d

ono

t ob

ey d

isco

ursi

ve o

rder

s.

Syymm

ppttoomm

ss arr

ee tthh

ee iimm

ppoossss

iibbllee

ppoott

eennttiia

ll ooff

‘‘auutt

hheenntt

iiccii--

ttyy’’..

They

indi

cate

the

inde

term

inat

e Re

al,

the

insa

tiabl

epa

ssio

n. T

he c

hanc

e of

not

bei

ng id

eolo

gica

l or

dis-

cour

sive

is a

ssoc

iate

d w

ith t

he t

actic

of

livin

g. T

he s

ign

indi

cate

d at

leas

t th

ree

dim

ensi

ons:

mea

ning

, or

an

obje

ct;

orde

r of

the

dis

cour

se o

r te

xt;

and,

impl

icitl

y,th

e sy

mpt

om,

or t

he li

mit

of d

isco

urse

. A

ccor

ding

to

Þuka

uska

itë,

“the

sym

ptom

is a

n in

carn

atio

n of

the

Real

,” a

n in

dica

tion

of “

a tr

aum

atic

cor

e” (

p. 1

5) a

ndto

the

cen

tral

impo

ssib

ility

(to

quo

te L

acan

), ar

ound

whi

ch t

he f

ield

of

mea

ning

is b

eing

str

uctu

red.

A p

er-

sona

lity,

acc

ordi

ng t

o Þu

kaus

kaitë

, is

cau

ght

in a

sta

geof

“on

tolo

gica

l dia

sthe

me”

(p.

17)

: be

twee

n di

scou

rse

and

sym

ptom

, be

twee

n re

ality

and

the

Rea

l. Th

is is

aca

use

for

the

dow

nfal

l of

the

subj

ect.

Ont

olog

ical

dia

s-th

eme

hide

s th

e or

igin

s of

tra

gedy

and

the

laug

h fo

rem

pty

hope

s. T

his

is w

hy Þ

ukau

skai

të’s

book

is n

oton

ly ir

onic

al,

but

also

som

etim

es f

unny

for

it’s

ruth

less

-ne

ss.

LLiibbii

ddiinna

ll eeccoo

nnoomm

yy ann

dd tthh

ee ppss

yycchhee

ooff

pprroodd

uuccttiioo

nn..

Þuka

uska

itë r

elie

s on

the

Mar

xist

not

e of

the

con

tem

-po

rary

pos

tmod

erni

sm:

econ

omy

cond

ition

s al

l ide

olo-

gies

, re

ason

ing

of n

eeds

and

res

ourc

es a

nd v

ia t

his,

the

disc

ours

es o

f po

wer

. A

lthou

gh t

he p

rodu

ctio

nits

elf,

as

a m

ater

ial p

roce

ss,

is n

ot a

dis

cour

sive

rea

lity,

it co

nsta

ntly

exp

ands

tow

ards

all

hum

an r

elat

ions

.W

hen

the

psyc

he p

rese

rves

the

per

son’

s re

latio

n w

ithde

sire

, pr

oduc

tion

cons

olid

ates

exi

stin

g fo

rms

ofde

sire

. Su

bjec

t de

sire

s th

at,

whi

ch is

pro

duce

d by

the

ideo

logi

cal e

cono

my.

But

psy

che

is a

lso

rela

ted

to t

hetr

aum

atic

exp

erie

nce

of in

divi

dual

s, s

ocia

l gro

ups

orna

tions

. Tr

aum

a sh

ows

the

non-

disc

ours

ive

real

m o

fsh

eer

desi

re.

It sh

ows

thro

ugh

veile

d w

ords

, ta

boos

,fe

ars,

pau

ses.

I w

ould

like

to

rem

ark

that

the

sup

pres

-si

on o

f th

e 19

41 g

enoc

ide

in t

he L

ithua

nian

pre

ss a

tla

rge

rem

aine

d a

trau

ma

that

con

tinue

s to

pro

duce

ambi

guiti

es.

Þuka

uska

itë’s

writ

ing

is a

bril

liant

met

hod-

ical

ally

for

a c

ritic

ism

of

the

oste

nsib

ly f

air

disc

ours

es.

TThhee

ttrrapp

ooff

TThhee

Samm

ee..D

isco

urse

s an

d id

eolo

gies

gra

ntth

e su

bjec

t po

wer

. W

hen

the

subj

ect

crea

tivel

y re

pre-

sent

s th

e di

scou

rsiv

e or

der,

whe

n, a

s A

lthus

ser

writ

es,

a su

bjec

t w

ith a

min

uscu

le s

beco

mes

a s

ubje

ct w

ith a

capi

talS

, th

en h

is d

ream

s, v

isio

ns,

plan

s an

d ev

en r

e-vo

lutio

ns b

ecom

e th

e re

petit

ions

of

The

Sam

e, p

roje

c-tio

ns o

f th

e sy

mbo

lic e

gois

m.

Ord

er o

f th

e sp

ecta

cle

prod

uces

man

y ne

w a

ltern

ativ

e or

ders

of

the

spec

-ta

cle,

the

mas

quer

ades

dra

w n

ew c

arni

vals

.Re

troa

ctiv

ity c

once

als

the

empt

ines

s of

imag

inat

ion

whe

n th

e fa

ntas

ies

are

all p

rovo

ked

by t

he m

ovie

s,le

gend

s an

d m

yths

. Th

ere

is n

othi

ng b

ehin

d th

e fa

n-ta

sies

of

The

Sam

e, a

lthou

gh t

he e

mpt

ines

s w

hich

they

hid

e –

and

whi

ch is

a t

hrea

t to

ord

er –

is a

tra

u-m

a. T

raum

a is

alw

ays

asso

ciat

ed w

ith t

he in

vasi

on o

f

the

real

, be

caus

e th

e re

al is

nev

er b

eyon

d di

scou

rse,

itis

an

invi

sibl

e co

mpo

nent

of

ever

y si

gn,

the

limit

ofsi

gn.

Thos

e w

ho d

o no

t ex

perie

nce

the

pain

ful c

hang

eof

thi

s bi

ndin

g in

evita

bly

fall

into

the

tra

p of

The

Sam

e, li

ke Þ

ukau

skai

të’s

Nar

ciss

us.

DDeemm

oonniicc

mmeenn

,, cca

rrnniivv

all ww

oommeenn

..In

thi

s bo

ok m

en a

real

way

s de

mon

ised

and

sho

wn

as c

onst

ant

pres

ente

r of

pow

er.

The

pow

er t

o ha

ve a

pha

llus

is t

he r

easo

n fo

rth

is d

emon

isat

ion.

To

the

cont

rary

, w

omen

are

a m

as-

quer

ade

to t

he o

bjec

t of

des

ire –

pha

llus.

The

aut

hor

prob

ably

ass

umes

tha

t fe

min

inity

and

mas

culin

ity a

reth

e in

evita

ble

attr

ibut

es o

f pa

n-de

sire

– b

ecau

seac

cord

ing

to L

acan

and

Þuk

ausk

aitë

, pr

oduc

tion,

soc

ial

orga

nisa

tion

and

cultu

ral a

ctiv

ity a

re a

ll ch

arge

d w

ithth

is p

ulsa

ting

vita

l des

ire.

The

auth

or r

ende

rs t

he ‘

car-

niva

l’ es

senc

e of

fem

inin

ity r

efer

ring

to t

rans

vest

ites,

who

are

a p

aral

lel ‘

mas

quer

ade’

phe

nom

ena.

But

she

does

not

go

deep

into

exi

sten

tial p

robl

ems

of t

hequ

eers

tha

t ar

e ca

used

by

a se

t of

exc

lusi

on m

echa

-ni

sms,

diff

eren

t fr

om t

hose

tha

t af

fect

s a

wom

an,

thus

the

trau

ma

expe

rienc

ed b

y qu

eers

doe

s no

t ha

ve a

spec

ifici

ty/p

ecul

iarit

y in

thi

s bo

ok.

Tran

sves

tites

rem

ain

blur

red.

EEvveerr

yyddayy

wwiitthh

oouutt

iiddeea

llss..

Ever

y pe

rson

rea

cts

to s

itua-

tions

and

cas

ual a

ccid

ents

by

rely

ing

on t

he s

ympt

oms

and

forc

ed b

y id

eolo

gies

and

dis

cour

ses.

Þuk

ausk

aitë

does

not

spe

ak a

bout

cre

ativ

ity a

nd id

eals

tha

t,ac

cord

ing

to a

tra

ditio

n th

at g

oes

back

to

Kan

t,im

plie

s fr

ee c

hoic

e. W

hen

ther

e ar

e no

idea

ls,

the

dive

rsity

is o

nly

mad

e po

ssib

le b

y th

e ch

aos

of t

heev

eryd

ay.

“Eve

ryda

y ac

tions

inco

rpor

ate

shre

wdn

ess,

man

euve

rs,

tric

ks,

sim

ulat

ions

, fa

ke s

ympt

oms

ofw

eakn

ess,

ele

men

ts o

f po

etic

s an

d w

ar [

…]

the

tact

i-ca

l beh

avio

r is

alw

ays

diff

used

, ep

hem

eral

and

sec

ret,

it is

cre

ated

as

an im

prov

ised

res

pons

e to

a p

artic

ular

situ

atio

n” (

p. 4

0).

The

varia

bilit

y of

the

eve

ryda

yim

pels

inst

anta

neou

s ta

ctic

al a

ctio

ns.

Stra

tegy

, on

the

cont

rary

, “s

eeks

to

colo

nise

a p

artic

ular

vis

ible

pla

ceth

at t

hen

beco

mes

a p

latf

orm

to

dem

onst

rate

pow

er”

(p.

41).

Stra

tegy

fac

ilita

tes

a w

ay f

or id

eolo

gies

, di

s-co

urse

s, t

he s

ubje

ct,

real

ity,

‘man

’. St

rate

gy o

ccup

ies

sens

es,

turn

ing

the

sigh

t of

eve

ryda

y in

to f

orm

s of

seei

ng,

into

the

cul

ture

of

obse

rvat

ion.

Spo

ntan

eity

can

thru

st t

hrou

gh t

he n

et o

f no

n-ve

rbal

dis

cour

sive

expe

ctat

ions

, vi

olat

e pe

rson

’s id

eolo

gica

l sel

f-as

sura

nce

but

it ca

nnot

hav

e or

obt

ain

the

cert

aint

y of

its

own.

Isw

oman

a ‘

tact

icia

n’?

BBooddyy

wwiitthh

oouutt

oorrgga

nnss a

nndd tt

hhee ff

llooww

ooff

ddeessii

rree..

The

auth

or p

ays

a lo

t of

her

att

entio

n to

the

crit

icis

m o

far

t an

d, f

irst

of a

ll, c

inem

a, a

lso

allo

win

g sh

ort

excu

r-si

ons

to t

he w

ork

of N

omed

a an

d G

edim

inas

Urb

onas

,Eg

lë R

akau

skai

të a

nd K

ristin

a In

èiûr

aitë

. Sh

e dr

aws

a

Library

bienalëje pasitelkëte neûþaugà, kai jûsø paèiø specialiai google paieðkos sistemai sukurtas þodis „Ultimiere“ galëtø atverti visai kitus kelius? Ar, ieðkodami naujø nieko neveikimo bûdø, nesusidûrëte su kraðtutinumais? Ar mokate kokiø triukø? Ar buvo ámanoma „kuruoti“ trienalæ? Kaip trienalë/bienalë gali tapti paroda?

fasc

inat

ing

para

llel b

etw

een

Ant

onin

Art

aud’

s “b

ody

with

out

orga

ns”

and

Gill

es D

eleu

ze’s

pre-

indi

vidu

al,

pre-

subj

ectiv

e flo

w o

f de

sire

. Bo

dy w

ithou

t or

gans

has

no s

ubst

ance

, it

is o

nly

a te

nden

cy,

pure

pla

stic

ity,

and

the

flow

of

desi

re is

a s

ubst

rate

of

unco

nsci

ousn

ess.

Unc

onsc

ious

ness

is m

ade

of d

esire

like

our

bod

ies

are

mad

e of

the

“bo

dy w

ithou

t or

gans

”. C

onte

mpo

rary

artis

ts r

esis

t th

e in

dust

rial p

rodu

ctio

n of

des

ires.

Dis

embo

dim

ent

is o

ne o

f th

e st

rate

gies

of

cont

empo

-ra

ry a

rt,

and

here

Þuk

ausk

aitë

dis

cuss

es a

rt p

roje

cts

byRa

kaus

kaitë

and

Inèi

ûrai

të.

She

also

con

side

rs t

he t

op-

ics

of b

ody

and

gend

er,

and,

her

ewith

, th

e tr

ansg

res-

sion

s of

sym

bolic

rea

lity

whe

n di

scus

sing

the

cin

e-m

atog

raph

ic w

ork

of P

edro

Alm

odov

ar a

nd L

ars

von

Trie

r. Bu

t ar

e th

ese

art

proj

ects

just

crit

icis

m?

Are

the

yno

t a

part

of

a ne

w c

reat

ive

indu

stry

, a

brea

kthr

ough

of s

hapi

ng t

he p

hysi

calit

y an

d de

sire

?

Seexuu

alliittyy

anndd

iittss

ppoolliitt

iiccall

eeccoo

nnoomm

yy..O

ne o

f th

e m

ost

impo

rtan

t th

emes

of

the

book

is s

exua

lity.

Fol

low

ing

Del

euze

and

Fel

ix G

uatt

ari,

she

cons

ider

s se

xual

ity a

spa

rt o

f th

e m

achi

ne o

f de

sire

. D

esire

is in

corp

orat

edin

to e

very

hum

an a

ctiv

ity a

s st

imul

us a

nd p

ower

, an

dth

is is

why

sex

ualit

y is

a c

ateg

ory

of p

oliti

cal e

cono

my.

Con

tem

pora

ry p

oliti

cal e

cono

my

poin

ts t

o th

e sp

lit o

fpr

oduc

tion

betw

een

varie

ty a

nd h

omog

enei

ty,

betw

een

valu

es a

nd t

he f

act

that

the

val

ues

are

con-

stan

tly t

urne

d in

to r

elat

ive

valu

es.

The

proc

esse

s of

diac

hron

y an

d ac

cele

ratin

g de

man

d re

quire

var

iety

that

is u

sual

ly s

atis

fied

with

var

iatio

ns o

f th

e sa

me

obje

cts.

Sim

ulat

ion

of v

arie

ty is

a w

ay f

or T

he S

ame

toes

cape

the

tro

uble

som

e di

ffer

ence

s; it

als

o ap

plie

s to

sex.

Þuk

ausk

aitë

writ

es:

“sch

izoa

naly

sis

is a

dyn

amic

gend

er a

naly

sis

of t

he s

ubje

ct n

, w

hich

rea

ches

beyo

nd a

nthr

opom

orph

ic r

epre

sent

atio

ns,

impo

sed

byth

e so

ciet

y” (

p. 1

44-1

45).

In p

rinci

ple,

eco

nom

y di

s-pl

aces

ant

hrop

omor

phis

m w

hile

tur

ning

gen

der

into

am

arke

t ne

ed,

an a

rtef

act.

I am

sur

e th

at t

he c

ritic

ism

of a

nthr

opom

orph

ism

of

sex

and

gend

er is

a m

ajor

achi

evem

ent

of t

his

book

. Se

xual

ity,

depr

ived

of

itsan

thro

pom

orph

ic p

atte

rn,

diss

olve

s in

to t

he li

bidi

nal

econ

omy

and

cons

tant

ly r

epea

ts it

s m

achi

nist

ic p

at-

tern

s. N

ever

thel

ess,

the

pro

duct

ion

does

not

libe

rate

from

par

anoi

a or

sch

izop

hren

ia.

Þuka

uska

itë s

earc

hes

for

inve

rsio

ns o

f sc

hizo

phre

nia

in c

onte

mpo

rary

pro

-du

ctio

n. I

wou

ld a

dd t

hat

Jose

ph S

hum

pete

r an

dA

ndre

w G

rove

, th

e re

pres

enta

tives

of

busi

ness

phi

loso

-ph

y, c

onsi

der

crea

tive

dest

ruct

ion

and

para

noia

as

the

core

of

cont

empo

rary

indu

strie

s.

LLiibbee

rrattiioo

nn ooff

tthhee

IImmppoo

ssssiibb

llee OO

tthheerr

ffrroo

mm tt

hhee oo

bbjjeecc

ttmm

iinnuuss

ccuullee

a.. T

he t

opic

of

the

Oth

er o

pens

the

way

to

the

larg

er v

arie

ty o

f di

scou

rses

. Th

e O

ther

fac

ilita

tes

tran

scen

denc

e, w

hich

is r

elat

ed e

ither

to

idea

ls,

radi

-ca

lly d

iver

se s

ymbo

lic w

orld

s or

non

-dis

cour

sive

pre

s-su

re o

f ec

onom

y an

d na

ture

/psy

che.

The

fig

ure

of t

he

Oth

er is

not

def

ined

, be

caus

e it

does

not

fit

into

the

boun

ds o

f bi

nary

opp

ositi

on o

f re

ality

and

the

Rea

l.W

hile

The

Sam

e co

uld

be li

nked

with

dis

cour

sive

iden

-tit

y an

d se

lf-co

nsci

ousn

ess,

col

onis

ed b

y id

eolo

gies

,th

e O

ther

doe

s no

t in

dica

te s

uch

poss

ibili

ty.

The

Oth

eris

rev

eale

d th

roug

h co

ncili

atio

n w

ith t

he n

atur

al e

nvi-

ronm

ent

or t

hrou

gh t

he in

expe

rienc

e of

impe

rativ

es o

fth

e ot

her,

prob

ably

una

ccep

tabl

e, w

orld

s. A

lthou

ghÞu

kaus

kaitë

doe

s no

t ad

dres

s th

e ph

iloso

phy

ofA

lfons

as L

ingi

s or

Alg

is M

ickû

nas

in t

his

book

, th

epa

thos

of

the

Oth

er b

onds

the

tho

ught

s of

the

thr

eeau

thor

s.

I wou

ld s

ay t

hat

the

auth

or c

lass

ifies

the

fie

ld o

f th

eO

ther

into

imag

inar

y, s

ymbo

lic a

nd r

eal.

The

imag

inar

yco

nsis

ts o

f th

e ot

her

refle

ctio

ns o

f Th

e Sa

me;

sym

bolic

cons

ists

of

the

“who

le o

f th

e no

nsub

ject

ive

rule

s”,

and

the

real

is t

he “

impo

ssib

le S

omet

hing

, no

nhum

anpa

rtne

r, w

ith w

hom

no

sym

met

rical

dia

logu

e is

pos

si-

ble”

(p.

142

). Th

e Sa

me

tend

s to

dis

crim

inat

e di

ffer

-en

ce a

nd t

urn

ever

y ra

dica

l Oth

er in

to a

thi

ng,

tode

valu

e it

to t

he d

omai

n of

non

hum

an r

elat

ions

hips

,to

the

obj

ect

of m

anip

ulat

ion.

The

logi

c of

thi

s co

nver

-si

on is

rel

ated

to

the

sym

bolic

ord

er o

f re

pres

enta

tion,

whe

re e

very

Oth

er is

inev

itabl

y re

pres

ente

d by

its

sub-

stitu

tion

– ob

ject

min

iscu

le a

. Th

e O

ther

as

a su

bjec

tm

inis

cule

a b

ecom

es a

thi

ng,

depr

ived

of

cond

ition

of

hom

o sa

crus

.

Þuka

uska

itë n

ames

som

e of

the

impo

ssib

le r

epre

sent

a-tiv

es o

f th

e im

poss

ible

Rea

l. It

is a

wom

an a

nd t

hose

dele

gitim

atis

ed b

y id

eolo

gy.

She

inte

rpre

ts a

fig

ure

ofa

wom

an w

ith L

acan

’s w

ords

: “A

wom

an d

oes

not

exis

t” m

eans

tha

t sh

e is

not

who

le (

pas

tout

e),

she

cann

ot r

epre

sent

her

self

fully

and

com

plet

ely

in t

heph

allic

ord

er”

(p.1

64).

Not

onl

y a

wom

an b

ut a

ny“s

exua

l rel

atio

nshi

p do

es n

ot e

xist

”, c

onsi

derin

g th

atth

e re

ality

of

desi

re d

oes

not

cons

titut

e si

gns.

All

Oth

er r

adic

al o

utca

sts

are

likew

ise

impo

ssib

le.

For

inst

ance

, th

e pr

ison

ers

in G

uant

anam

o, t

hose

who

surv

ive

the

bom

bs a

re im

poss

ible

in t

he p

ostw

ar o

rder

post

ulat

ed b

y th

e U

S. I

supp

ose

that

am

ong

thos

eim

poss

ible

sho

uld

also

app

ear

man

y ot

her

econ

omic

alan

d po

litic

al r

efug

ees

and

disa

bled

, w

ho r

emai

n th

ings

or im

poss

ible

s ev

en in

Lith

uani

a as

the

y do

not

fin

dth

eir

plac

e in

the

fau

lty L

ithua

nian

set

of

fant

asie

s of

The

Sam

e.

Gin

taut

as M

aþei

kis

Did you engage in any illicit activities dur-ing the research period prior of the exhibi-tion?

BMW’s topics don’t seem to be taken fromthe desert neither from a shopping mallnor business parks. Why?

Do you have anything to say about the psy-chology of curators? (when differentiatedselector/curator/carpet cleaner)

Can BMW be a subject ever? (of course nota theme, you are not theme-parkers!)

Is it a coincidence that Vilnius, a schizo-phrenic city per se, was chosen as a stage ofthe project? How many more coincidencesare in BMW?

What is forbidden today? How long is itforbidden? How could you recognise any‘forbidden stuff’ in our western society,from which point of view? Why did youconsciously choose not to locate any ‘specif-ic’ BM content into the show?

Is that show ‘for sale’? Do you consider it asits main future or supposedly so, like ifblack markets and e-bay systems were notso far from each other?

Do you think BMW show can be consideredas a full-scale emergency kit built into one’sbrain, plus a crash course in disaster sur-vival, real and imagined?

New Ways of doing Nothing! How do youthink a society where a large proportion ofpeople will never work, can be run?

Did you find extremes in the quest for newways of doing nothing?

Was it possible to ‘curate’ a triennial?

How a triennial/biennial can become ashow?

Was it easy or not too difficult to curate ashow that seemed to have been recruitedneither straight from Disneyland nor fromidealistic ways of practicing criticism today?

Did you work from our attraction to dan-ger?

Who kissed the frog?

Will the actual exhibition – or similar for-mat you use – present possibilities or spacesfor black markets to exist within it?

Did the frog transform into a prince?

Is imagination still a BM drug?

‘Small quantities, direct networking, nichemarketing and superdistribution’ - whatdoes that mean?

Why did you communicate with a world-wide unclear distribution of logos fromMarch to the activation of a midget inVenice Biennale, with the creation and dis-tribution of a new word (Ultimiere) to begoogled to lead you somewhere else?

How many ghost-artists were invited to theshow? What about the clones?

Why did the guard cry? If this is a piece -then who made it?

How did you manage to loose control andallow parallel structures to happen? Or wasit all carefully planned and staged?

How did you become two? Were you oneor three in the beginning?

Didn’t Sony express any discontent with thefact that Soni and Shanel had their ads inthe publication of the triennial?

Do you think the topics your are approach-ing, for example, from black markets tomagic to the occult, represent an obstaclein the understanding of the Baltic region’spursuit for more open, transparent, demo-cratic endeavors?

BMW=Home?

Claiming that ‘black markets are alwaysagnostic’ are you trying to say that thesame statement applies to the exhibition?And is it true that you are trying to mimickthe logic of operation of black markets?

How did you react to the fact that part ofthe exhibition in London and Vilnius washacked and re-created in Tallinn withoutyour consent? Was it a surprise or just apart of the script?

Have you learned any magic tricks?

Did you sell your souls to the devil?

Will there be works in the exhibition thatcast spells on the audience?

Will audiences be ‘enchanted’ with theworks on exhibition?

Black markets are commonly referred asshadow economies. Will this exhibition castany type of shadows?

I heard through the grapevines that a seriesof weird, un-natural phenomena wouldpotentially haunt the CAC and ICA alikeduring the exhibition period. This soundsweird, but is it true?

Do you remember the first time you gotpaid for it?

Have you ever talked about BMW commu-nities?

The ultimate conceptual car will move sofast, even at rest, as to be invisible. Do youthink artworks, curating practices, demate-rialised work, are concerned by car will?

Does that show can be based on a state-ment like: everything is repackaged intosomething with more consumer appeal (i.e.Black market within the art world andwithout any will of being alternative).

Do you think BMW’s people are newBonnies and Clydes gathered to challengethe suburbian values? Is BMW toxic?

Can we consider that BMW is made of massparanoias about new diseases?

How did BMW (artists, curators, writers)invest the fact that we live in deeply uncer-tain times?

Is BMW an extreme position in curatorialfield?

Do you think BM systems go faster thanentropic ones?

Like Ballard suggested: “if the future is amarriage between Microsoft and the DisneyCorporation, what can the rest of us doabout it?” Do you have any plans from thatshow?

Can a schizoshow become a simultaneousstructure whether contradictory or not, likedescribing some shadow zones and keepingthem activated, having a future and a pastat the same time? Is that the reason whyyou subtitled the triennial a shizoshow?Was it necessary to choose a side?

Is BMW a permanent crisis?

Is BMW because as curators you wanted todeal only with the flux? Like: what will I doand where will I play in five minutes?

Did you finish the show?

Do you think ‘interesting’ curators work isto provoke, challenge, unsettle, questionand offer the viewer the keys to a door heor she has never noticed in a side-corridorof their minds?

Does that ‘BMW shizoshow’ has a future?

Is BMW an endless show?

Were you naive or oblivious to expect thatblack market and shadow networks aren’tas hierarchic as any corporative oligarchy?

Why didn’t anyone talk about alternativeand progressive schemes of exchange pro-vided by artists, theoreticians and streetvendors?

Who stole the show? Vilnius or London?

Does the invention and careful mainte-nance of a secret life lead to freedom?

Is it about being non- transparent or aboutbeing double at least?

1. Jonas Dahlberg2. Sofia Hernandez Chong Cuy3. John Menick, Gabriel Lester,

Marko Lulic4. John Menick, Gabriel Lester,

Marko Lulic5. Ursula Davila, Holly Block,

Carla Herrera-Prats6. Patrick Killoran7. Gabriel Lester8. Mageli Arriola, John Menick9. Alexis, Raimundas, Sofia (CACTV

playing in the background)10. Ursula Davila, Luisa Lagos11. Top: Valerie Tevere. Center:

Linda Park, Patrick Killoran. Below (arms and head): Raimundas Malaðauskas

12. Alexis Vaillant, Yane Calovski13. Yane Calovski14. Jonas Dahlberg,

Adam Pendleton, Luisa Lagos15. Wendy Tronrud,

Alejandro Cesarco16. Sofia Hernandez Chong Cuy,

Joshua Decter17. Patrick Killoran,

Douglas Ross, Anthony Huberman

18. Francois Bucher

19. Linda Park, Raimundas Malaðauskas

20. Anonym21. Andreja Kuluncic22. Alexis Vaillant,

Adam Pendleton23. Marko Lulic24. Marko Lulic25. Maria Garcia Torres26. Armelle Papadrielle27. Carla Herrera-Prats28. Alexis Vaillant,

Armelle Papadrielle29. Sofia Hernandez Chong Cuy

(making some quesadillas! Que deli!)

30. www.ultimiere.com

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On 30 April, 2005 a gathering at Sofia Hernandez’s place in Fort Green, Brooklyn, was organised to initiate the BMW project. Every guest was asked to bring at least one black market item to the party.

The questions below from the future were received by Sofia Hernandez Chong Cuy (NYC), Raimundas Malašauskas (Vilnius) and Alexis Vaillant(Paris), the curators of BMW, the 9th Baltic Triennial of International Art, that took place at CAC Vilnius and ICA London 23 September-16November, 2005.

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, 20

03 ir

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are

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incl

ude

hist

ory

of 1

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to 2

0th

cent

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man

and

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opea

n lit

erat

ure,

17t

h an

d 18

th c

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s, a

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esth

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per

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arou

nd 1

800.

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cent

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en r

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ts (

film

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levi

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d th

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scou

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erm

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litic

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sel

f-de

scrip

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ns s

ince

the

mid

-19t

h ce

ntur

y. H

is la

test

pub

licat

ions

are:

Lov

e as

a N

ovel

,M

ünch

en:

Fink

, 20

03;

and

Com

mun

icat

ion/

Med

ia/P

ower

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ankf

urt:

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rkam

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thi

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ctur

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ndro

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d th

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nt S

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role

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pora

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MIT

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ss,

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.

KAVINË

strengthens the reactionary fight againstantidogmatic interpretations. The softwarefor website monitoring, rating and filtering isa form of inquisition. Doesn’t the idea of avirtual space panopticon scare you (forinstance, some groups in certain countriesdemand to introduce the obligatory ID sys-tem for the opening of your e-mail box etc.?DM:But reactionaries can also augment theproduction of heretical texts. Various sectsand alternatives to the ‘real version’ areflourishing (remember the theory of chaos).We do not have to be interested in them anyfurther because religion for a longer time hasalready created no significant product. It cer-tainly has kept some social functions but theanarchy of the virtual space annoys no lessas its opposite ‘orderly’ version. VK:Don’t you think that the ‘performance’of the Pope’s death in the mass media hasextended the concept of liturgy in space aswell as in time? During the live broadcastfrom the Vatican the displaced Holy Masswas transported to the overall space of the

so-called Christian world. Is that the waymass media has played the role of liturgicalmedia?DM:If the broadcast is completely uninter-esting I usually switch to the other channel,and then this event disappears from the fieldof reality. Indeed media as a mirror reflectspreferences, i.e. it works as a mirroring eventserver which replaces the real event. Forinstance the translation of a sports game isnot ‘from’ somewhere, it simply takes placeand happens in the 40 x 60 cm square infront of your eyes. Everybody knows howthe image appears in the ‘box’ but I am surethat the TV viewer does not contemplate onthe ‘displacement’ of the real site. And Ithink that the media is not any kind of medi-ator anymore because it is more interested initself, more directed to itself and its ownmake-up and is often the subject to itself.For instance the new BBC weather broadcastdesign becomes subject of BBC news, andnot only after the fact. The event wasannounced half a year ago and became a

welcome message for the news consumers.The wiggly tongue above the beer glass is amore realistic mediator, I think (though lessinteresting, of course). VK:If you thought about the illustrations for

this text, what would they be? DM:The mediating tractor or ‘Pope’s trac-tor’, which I managed to catch in the yard ofKaunas medical clinics. We have not dis-cussed this subject of the ‘Pope’s car’, andalso this TV image ‘conclave smoke’ is thesubject we have not developed. VK:How would you start the interviewabout the Pope?DM:I would ask for an audience. HisEminence would be interviewed in that case.

Valentinas Klimaðauskas is a curator at theCAC in Vilnius.

Piotr Piotrowski is a head of the Institute ofArt History of the A. Mickiewicz University in

Poznan, Poland.Darius Mikðys is an artist based in Vilnius.

Foto / Photo: Darius M

ikðys, 2005

29ji rinka meno pasaulyje, visiðkai nesiekianti alternatyvios pozicijos)? Kaip manote, galbût BMW þmonës yra naujieji Boni ir Klaidai, susibûræ mesti iððûká miesèio-

and almost nothing critical. I think, however,that it was the beginning of the end of thepower of the Church in Poland, since thePoles usually saw the pope as ‘our pope’.Now, when this national point of referencedisappeared, maybe the politico-religiousbackground will be lost, and the Roman-Catholic Church will be less powerful. Iwould very much welcome a black cardinalas the next pope. It would be a shock inPoland with its strong nationalistic back-ground, so important in this country, andprovide a sort of opportunity to make suchan ideology weaker. Unfortunately, it has nothappen but a German is somehow alsopromising...:)

Parrt IIIVallentinass KKlimaððauuskass:I suggest talkingabout the Pope but still do not know fromwhat point of view. I am not religious and, Isuppose, you as well. Darrius MMikðys:Why do you suppose so?VK:I think you are more of a romantic for anano and mega galactic, meditating gnosti-cian and media shaman than a practicingcatholic. However the question is: are youreligious?DM:But this question is usually given to afilm character at the point where he arrives‘on the edge’. So what actually happened?VK:I believe we are on the edge of theepoch where old institutions (such as theChurch or State) start invading new media… DM:Indeed, the faith needs a ‘message’which unfortunately is not sufficed by thepower of the media. A ‘message’ also needsan idea but we see that the Church does nottranslate any new religious ideas yet whichwould accord with the conception of thecontemporary world. Or maybe it does trans-late ideas but we do not ‘catch’ them or per-haps we would not understand them yet.But most probably we do not produce suchan idea because we are still in the process oflearning its vocabulary and creating tools forits use. Our current/former God is similar tothe distributor of ‘matter code’, so if thiscode becomes ‘open’, the new God willagain be transported behind the new hori-zon. That is why I think that media ‘invades’religion and changes its location on the mapof consciousness, and the State as a fictionalphenomenon is of course created and con-stantly re-created by means of media. VK:...and as well I am not sure if it wereinteresting to talk about sacral art or art andfaith. DM: It would be interesting to talk in an

interesting way.VK:Certainly. I suggest participating inanother interview which we will dedicate towww.bernardinai.lt.DM:bernardinai.com only.VK:Do you think that the virtual space.lt istoo claustrophobic in comparison to the vir-tual space.com?DM:Erdve.com is more claustrophobic, but Isuggest a temporary protest against ‘lt’because of the corruption taking place in thisstate. It hinders artistic communities to act inan environment of rich values. But worst ofall, it obstructs the formation of such com-munities.VK: Let’s return to the subject of the Pope.From the visual perspective I would be mostinterested in the spectacle of Pope John PaulII’s death. Live and other broadcasts from theVatican and Kracow and films about thePope’s life, etc. started early at night. TheVatican keeps very good relations with newmedia: the worlds of SMS and e-mail wereinformed about Pope’s death before thosestanding in St Peter’s Square in Rome. Whatdo you think about this friendship betweenmedia and the conservative Church?DM:I think the same what I think about therelationship between politicians and media.Another interesting area is the white andblack smoke during conclave – the moderni-sation and use of this archaic ‘media’. VK:No doubt, the general benevolence ofthe Church towards the media has a politicaltouch but I am more interested in the sacrali-sation of media that is actively performed bythe Church. The new Pope began his inau-guration from the symbolic consecration ofjournalists, his e-mail addresses wereannounced for correspondence in variouslanguages, and he himself answered the let-ters. Similar processes are taking place withindifferent religions, for instance, the Arabicmobile phones show the direction towardsMecca. I am more interested in this era of anew technological baroque…DM:I think that the Church in Lithuania gen-erally has no credit of ‘sacrality’. Sacralised –crystallised? Crystallised and crystallised thebelievers become converted to the virtue ofmedia. VK:Are you talking about the shrines ofcrystal displays? DM: As well as pocket-sized altars. Air Bus, racing Boeing, offered synagoguesinstalled in the planes for Jews, or, if I amcorrect, mosques for Arabs. I have recentlyread about the patented invention of the‘media tombstone’ – the video system

embedded in a tomb enabling visitors toreview messages, wishes or ratings.Sometime ago I was thinking about themedia that accidentally could save life – saysuddenly you die but your e-mail box in theyahooserver continues to ‘live’. However Ihave not heard about any website whereyou could be consecrated or baptised, norabout any mail server which would circulatethe messages with an advertisement in Latinat its bottom. VK:Evangelical SMS invade not only the TVor radio but also Mass celebrations and wor-ships: in the website http://www.popemes-sage.com/you can order the Pope’s thoughtsfor the day, http://www.ev-jugend-han-nover.de/offers to pray in messages, andBuddhists even consecrate their mobilephones in http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,64624,00.html. We couldalso remember the tele-evangelic broadcasts,which provide you the feeling that youundoubtedly are the participant of this medi-ated procession while watching them. Who,according to you, is more the Pope of themedia – the Holy Father or MarshalMcLuhan, or someone else? DM:If we could take no account (or if wehave not read) McLuhan, the Pope wouldcertainly be a figure that is being broadlymediated and mediating. However, he can-not be ‘the Pope of the media’. The Pope’sinstitution settles the canon and performs itsmonitoring and recently it has no success infulfilling this task. It is possible to think thatthe current influence religion has on themedia is the weakest in all its history. If wewould consider Paleolithic cave drawings asparticipants of the rituals that could havebeen an embryo of religion, and if we wouldfollow the influence of religion for ways ofrepresentation and translation up to ourdays, we could state that it was religion thatpractically initiated and created the media.The latter has only recently crumbled intomany media forms and mediators that are‘Popes’ in the zones of their own influence.The artists that produce mediating works aresometimes ‘Popes’ of their artwork, andsometimes they can be Popes not of onlytheir artwork but also other author’s work,or on the contrary, they are Popes neither totheir own nor to other artwork (I think thatMcLuhan is the Pope of his own work and ofthe others’). We could even think that he isthe Pope for this our text about the Pope ifwe imagined that it is already published. VK:Yes, however the possibility to useheretical texts or heretical media only

In the first part of the interview ValentinasKlimaðauskas talks to a renowned Polish arthistorian and critic Piotr Piotrowski on art,media and the Church on the occasion ofthe Popes succession this April. In the secondpart of the interview he discusses with aVilnius-based artist Darius Mikðys, famous forhis original techno-visions, and the interviewtopic becomes its own deconstruction.

Parrt IIVallentinass KKlimaððauuskass:I believe that tradi-tional institutions (such as State and Church)have started to invade new media. There arevoices wanting to make obligatory use of IDwhen obtaining email accounts or SIM cardsfor mobile phones... What is your opinion onthe relationship of new media and thechurch in Poland?Piotr PPiotrowski:The Church (as well as theState) in Poland needs new media in order topromote itself, and to make contact with thepeople, as in any other country, yet at thesame time it complains about ‘liberal cul-ture’, or liberal values broadcasting in themedia. The Polish Roman-Catholic Church,however, was so strong (its political positionis perhaps the strongest among Europeancountries) that it had even forced theParliament to add a sentence to the mediaact stating that the media should respect aChristian value system. Fortunately it’s just arhetorical obligation and does not mean toomuch in social practice. As for the first partof your question, as far as I know, there wasa sort of attempt to extend a state controlover communication, but fortunately it wasnot successful. However, it was not theChurch’s initiative, rather the State’s whodreams (as any other state) to control thepeople.VK:On Sunday (8 May) a new popeBenedictus XVI made a speech dedicated tothe media saying that it should do more tomake positive dialogues between nationsetc. Would positive and ‘moralistic’ massmedia help shape a better world or would itbe only one more technique for censorship?PP:I do not believe that the Church is inter-ested in a real dialog between nations andany other groups. If it does, a new (as wellas an old) Pope is willing to conduct such a

dialog but on the basis of a Christian valuesystem, i.e. it sees itself as a power, which atleast toleratesother subjectsin such a dia-log, but doesnot recognisethem as equalpartners.Definitely, if theChurch wouldhave such apossibility, itwould like tointroduce a sortof censorship. Ihope, however,it will not havesuch a chancein the future.VK:What arethe relationsbetween art,art institutionsand the churchin the father-land of the lateJohn Paul II?PP:This is avery complicat-ed question. Ihave spentmuch time toresearchingsuch a topic,and I amabsolutely con-vinced that hisinfluence inPoland, particu-larly after 1989,was verydestructive in the field of culture and art. Hegave an extreme power to the Church inPoland, combining two tendencies: national-ism and religion, traditional Polish main-stream values. His conservative attitude wasvery influential in this country, which is con-servative by origin and by historical defini-tion. All of the trouble with a censorshipover art (religious, sexual etc.), what I havedescribed in the Populismreader, comes

from that source. VK:What did death of John Paul II mean to

the media and society in Poland? Was it 7/24liturgy on the national level as well as on theprivate, media, virtual and art institutions’levels?PP: After (and even shortly before) his deathPolish media were hysterical. I could noteven imagine how the media was able toneglect all other news, except for that onestory. There were so many nostalgic stories inthe Polish press, so many apologetic articles,

Say what?

Valentinas Klimaðauskas talks toPiotr Piotrowski and Darius Mikðys

30 31niðkoms vertybëms? Ar BMW toksiðkas? Ar galima teigti, kad BMW – tai daugybë masiniø naujø ligø paranojø? Kà BMW (menininkai, kuratoriai, raðytojai) gali pasakyti apie tai, kad ðiais laikais labai daug netikrumo? Ar vaizduotë – vis dar BM narkotikas? Ar kuratoriniame lauke BMW uþima radikalià pozicijà? Ar mano-

leries take part in art fairs. Everybody is in ahurry to buy-and-sell. According to ex-MoMAcurator of painting and New York UniversityProfessor of Art History, Robert Storr, suchevents should already be referred to in termsof ‘spotting’ rather than ‘looking’, and ‘get-ting to know you’ is transformed into ‘love atfirst sight’. These processes seem to changeeven the future of art. AG: Surely, the commercial codes are valid. Ifyou see commercial success in a work of art,you as a gallerist do not care too much,what the reaction of art critics or art institu-tions will be. KI: Certain stereotypes of the art market per-sist: many gallerists have mentioned that it ismuch more difficult to sell videos comparedto the traditional kinds of art – small-scalepaintings and drawings are more popular. AG: Everything follows the law: in a materialworld, very material things are sold. Yet, another question arises: do they buy theartist’s name or the work of art? If the nameis on sale, then it is unimportant whetherthis is a video or a work created in a differ-ent medium. In this case, the Western artmarket is superior to the Lithuanian one,because it has long ago legitimated suchmeans of expression as video, performanceand media art. KI: We have had little contact with the inter-national art market yet, although private gal-leries are increasingly interested in contem-porary Lithuanian art. The situation is muchsadder in Lithuania where contemporary artdoes not have its market. We cannot denythe fact that intellectual production shouldhave its price. If there is no art market, thereis no possibility to find out what the value ofa work of contemporary art is; the status ofcontemporary artists is very vaguely defined– the society does not know how to evaluateartists; an adequate attitude towards the cre-ator of contemporary art. Many still thinkthat we are a group of naive enthusiastswho create art in their free time, and only asmall circle of people can understand us. AG: Not only Lithuanian artists are regardedin this way. I have communicated with manyyoung Western artists whose situation is verysimilar. Only the artist’s status is betterdefined there; more possibilities to use theprivileges provided by the government, sup-port from various private funds, fellowshipsand art residences in centres of the [art]world such as New York or London. KI: The romantic idea of a bohemian artistconceived in the modernist era is still popularin Lithuania. Lithuanian TV programs or mag-

azines focusing on life-style usually presentthe classical artist’s studio; they tell aboutwomen in his life and his wanderings aroundthe world. Such stories about artists areoften mystified – for instance, a story in apopular Lithuanian daily about a Lithuanianartist’s fancy for a cemetery guard’s job. Whydo they receive such attention? Becausemodernist painters are appreciated in oursociety: they have their own local market;their works are sold in traditional Lithuaniangalleries oriented around modern art. If awork of art has a value, the artist who hascreated it is respected in society, and themedia are more and more interested in him.The more they are interested, the higher thevalue of his art rises in the art market. Meanwhile, contemporary art will have towait some more in Lithuania...AG:Will a market for contemporary art everemerge in Lithuania? Is it necessary here?Gintaras Beresnevièius has pointedlydescribed this situation speaking about thedifferent priorities of a ‘try hard’ and a ‘snob’. KI: Perhaps a solution would be to establishsuch galleries of contemporary art in Vilniusthat would participate in the international artmarket. One could use the example of theonly gallery of this type, IBID Projects, run-ning along the itinerary Vilnius-London-inter-national-art-fairs. AG: Yet, the gallery’s geographical locationhas an important role here. As the gallerydoes not need mega-space, it is more like adatabank and the gallery’s shape is reminis-cent of an office. Another reason why theactivities of galleries are orientated towardsthe great centres of the world is the aspectof competitiveness. After all, it is not soimportant what is the size of the office – theimportant thing is what information it accu-mulates and presents both in the gallery’sspace and on the Internet. KI: Such are the advantages of informationsociety. In spite of this, we do not haveenough contemporary art institutions inLithuania where we could show our work.For instance, now I create three or four newfilms per year, which I show only abroad. Itwill sound sad, but the retrospective of myvideos from 2002-2005 planned this year inVilnius should be called a ‘premiere’, for theyhave been seen by only a few people inLithuania. It is ironic that I create works relat-ed to the Lithuanian context, which arerarely presented to the local audience. AG:Thus, we come back to the tightness ofthe Lithuanian market. Nevertheless, weshould pay attention to the local specifics.

The scene of Lithuanian contemporary art istoo closed and too young. It has its ownconsistent identity, but the issue of genera-tions still remains open. KI:Lithuanians are sedentary, and genera-tions are closely related here. Elsewhere,where migration is high, it is difficult to fol-low the evolution of generations, especiallyin megapolis. For instance, Anri Sala startedhis successful artist’s career in Paris where heused and played with his Albanian origin,and when he ‘got his feet’ into the interna-tional art scene, he started to create worksdetached from any reflection of his origin.There are more examples of this kind. AG: Speaking of representation of your owncountry abroad, the scheme seems to beclear: works more or less referring to theLithuanian social reality are presentedabroad. This interest wanes as wanes also –or perhaps has disappeared completely – theinterest in the Balkans, the Central orNorthern parts of Eastern Europe. KI: What future do you imagine for yourself?AG: The change of everything and move-ment are gaining momentum. The under-standing of well-to-do life is changing. Theproblems that existed five years ago are nolonger urgent today; we can look from a his-torical perspective at many things. KI: In Lithuania, social, economical and cul-tural differences are decreasing as comparedto other countries of European Union. In thenear future, when our economy becomeseven stronger, perhaps, we will find itincreasingly difficult to notice differencesbetween generations, for we will not be ableto avoid a more intensive migration. Moreand more immigrants will come to Lithuania.Blood will be mixed.

To find out more about the work of ArûnasGudaitis and Kristina Inèiûraitë (and an

emerging generation of Lithuanian artists)visit the website developed by the Lithuanian

Institute and the Contemporary ArtInformation Office of the Lithuanian Art

Museum: www.youngartists.lt

The new Paris dealer schleicher+langesituat-ed in Marais District at the centre of the cityhas recently presented work by severalLithuanian artists. Exhibitions by ArûnasGudaitis, Kristina Inèiûraitë and GintarasMakarevièius could be considered a jumpinto the international art market. Becausethere is no well-established art market infra-structure in Lithuania this could be seen asthe beginning of a new era of integration forLithuanian art. Arûnas Gudaitis and KristinaInèiûraitë sat down to talk about this andabout potential for the development of anart-system within Lithuania.

Arûnass GGudaiitis: Works of art are not alwaysacquired through the mediation of galleries.For instance, an article with a reproductionof my work in an art magazine or newspa-

per, which has appeared after an exhibition,has encouraged a number of collectors tocontact me via e-mail. Although in this casethe institution that showed the work playedan important role, it is possible to sell worksnot only through galleries. In fact, collectorsare purposefully working in that direction. Kristina IInèiûraiitë: Whatever the case, gal-lerists from Paris are getting interested in theLithuanian art scene; they come to Vilnius,choose artists and a new context opens,which we can enter and present our produc-tion. First of all, I appreciate not only thecommercial advantages of the gallery, butthe fact that I can show my works to the artpublic in Paris and expand my contacts in theart world. AG: Gallerists have emphasised their aim topresent artists whose works have not yetbeen shown in the Paris art scene. Thegallery’s initiative to expand the geographyof the art market deserves a compliment. Wecan only guess why they have chosen Vilnius.Perhaps, this is related to the fact that theyare of German origin and started their activi-ties in Berlin – their socio-cultural heritageand worldview may influence their choice ofartists. KI: An artist from our region can hardlyexpect to be invited to galleries that have

already settled and have clear priorities. Wehave more chances to show in new galleriesthat are still shaping their liberal enoughface. Even the gallerists of schleicher+langehave observed that their gallery is exception-al among other galleries in Paris, inasmuchas French people aren’t running it, and thereare no local artists among their stable. Atthis initial stage, risk comes from varioussides: the specific French context, the galleryand the artists invited from different regions– will everything ‘click’? We can only guessat the beginning of the gallery’s activities. AG: Eventually, clearer criteria crystallise: agallerist may take up a certain position,which will determine the gallery’s relativelyliberal ‘face’. Nonetheless, one cannot avoidcertain commercial interests. Because theyneed a return on the huge amount of energyand resources invested and can’t afford tosenselessly waste time.KI: “Capital goes where it is wanted andstays where it is well-treated” – this remarkby the famous economist and banker WalterWriston accurately reflects the art market asit literally ‘mushrooms’. It is the growth ofthe art market that changes the conceptionand definition of the traditional gallery. InParis, Basel, London, Madrid, New York andother metropolis a countless number of gal-

people to write about your work again. Theyknow already how you work and what itmeans to be an artist: that is that some guysthink you don’t do it for the money. Yeah,right. It’s a great excuse not to pay you shitfor all the things you do. So what the fuckhappens is that you, as a fucking artist, putfucking money into projects that others willshow in their fucking museum, in their shittyKunsthalle, in their sexhibition space, in theirgutter gallery. So you are an investor. Yougive loans nobody will ever repay you. Youtake fucking financial risks. You speculate onyourself as an ‘artistic asset’. Don’t you see?You are a trader! You cannot put all yourmoney into one kind of artistic stocks. So,well, you ‘diversify your activities’, as theywould say. You manage the risks you take.Great. You would say it differently. Don’t tell

me that. You say I suffer from a veryunpleasant schizophrenia; that I have multi-ple personalities. Well yes I am. Didn’t youknow that before? I am a philosopher, butalso a writer. I am an editor of a magazineand I invite people to write for this maga-zine. I occasionally work with artists on proj-ects that end up in exhibitions where I meetpeople who ask me to write about theirwork. Sometimes I do it for free. Becauseyou know how hard things are for an artistthese days. You don’t do it for the money.That is what some people think. It is a greatexcuse not to pay you for all the things youdo. So what happens is that you, as an artist,put money into projects that others willshow in their museum, in their Kunsthalle, intheir exhibition space, in their gallery. So youare an investor. You give loans nobody will

repay you. You take financial risks. You spec-ulate on yourself as an artistic asset. You area trader. You cannot put all your money intoone kind of artistic stocks. So you diversifyyour activities. You manage the risks youtake. You would say it differently. I know,but I don’t use the f-word. You say you suf-fer from a gentle schizophrenia. You aremultiple personalities. I think I understand.

Delivered by Dieter Lesage at the CAC as theinaugural lecture in the CAC/Café Talks on

06/04/2005. This was the ‘performative’ halfof the paper. First published in English in:

Dieter Lesage, Vertoog over verzet. Politiek intijden van globalisering,Amsterdam/Antwerpen:

Meulenhoff/Manteau, 2004, pp. 289-293.

Away

Arûnas Gudaitis and Kristina Inèiûraitë talk about Paris

Arûnas G

udaitis, Susitikimo vieta / The M

eeting Point, 2002-2003, video

Kristina Inèiûraitë, Repeticija / Rehearsal, 2002, video

32 33te, kad BM sistemos greitesnës uþ entropines? Kaip sakë Ballard’as, „jei ateitis yra Microsofto ir Disnëjaus korporacijos vedybos, kà mes, visi likusieji, galime padaryti?“. Ar turite kokiø planø? Ar ðizoparoda gali tapti simultaniðka struktûra, prieðtaringa viduje arba ne, ar ji galëtø apibûdinti tam tikras ðeðëlines zonas

second hand shops or at the flee market to amuseum, you liberate your country from itsbad taste in general, you show a video in agallery and you are the DJ at a dernissage, ora finissage, or whatever it is called, whereyou invite people who make photographsand enjoy writing critiques on the magazine.You want your fellow DJ’s to have a break,it’s your turn now and you take the mike towelcome all the people who came to theparty. You are a re-mediator, you remixrecords and you re-want people to remix,you even remix photographs, and you remixphotographs of people you re-want to remix.You re-photograph the people you re-talk to;you re-talk to other people about photogra-phy, again. There is this T-shirt with T-Ina onit, and there is this funny guy you want toswear to wear your T-shirt when he goes toparties on his own. You are nowhere andyou make people wonder where you mightbe. You are not at home, your answeringmachine is answering for the multiple per-sonalities you are. You just got off, you tooka cab, and you’re wearing fifty pounds ofmaterial from the cab to the airport. You’releaving Berlin. You’re coming back soon.You’re always on the move. You take anoth-

er cab; it takes less time to find your place inIstanbul now you know your way. You makephotographs and you ask others to makephotographs the way you want it. You inter-view the people you asked to make photo-graphs, you transcribe the tapes of the inter-views, you type the transcriptions of theinterviews and get them published in yourmagazine. You invite the people you inter-viewed to the presentation of the magazine,you distribute flyers announcing your partiesat the presentation of your magazine in abookshop, you distribute flyers announcingthe presentation of your magazine in theclub where you are having a party, youannounce the next party at your party, youapologise the people who couldn’t make it,you are sharing addresses, you promise peo-ple to send them invitations. You mediatebetween the media and the artists in theexhibitions you organise, you make arrange-ments for interviews, you invite critics to theopening, you make copies of critiques of theexhibition, you send them to the artists inthe exhibition. You represent yourself assomeone else than you are and you are theway you represent yourself. You pretend andyou are for real. Things may vary. You’re

doing research on the military. You makephotographs of soldiers and you make pho-tographs of artists. You are an artist yourselfand that means it would be nice to get somemoney for all the things you do. Sometimesyou get subsidies, it’s great to get grants,you know this nice guy who might lend yousome more money, you still have that solici-tor who helps you in order to get moneyfrom people who just happen to be very badpeople. You make dinner for people youdon’t need to introduce any more, you dis-cuss publication plans over dinner and thereis still some wine from last time. You ask

Art, ppopulism annd ddemocraccy: III

You are an artist and that means: you don’tdo it for the money. That is what some peo-ple think. It is a great excuse not to pay youfor all the things you do. So what happens isthat you, as an artist, put money into proj-ects that others will show in their museum,in their Kunsthalle, in their exhibition space,in their gallery. So you are an investor. Yougive loans nobody will repay you. You takefinancial risks. You speculate on yourself asan artistic asset. You are a trader. You cannotput all your money into one kind of artisticstocks. So you diversify your activities. Youmanage the risks you take. You would say itdifferently. I know. You say you suffer from agentle schizophrenia. You are multiple per-sonalities. You are a photographer, but also aDJ. You have a magazine, you are a publish-er, but you also organise parties. You takephotos from party people. You throw a partywhen you present a magazine, you makemagazines with photographs of party peo-ple, you throw a party and you are the DJ.You have a DJ collective, so you can walkaround at your own party, you talk to peopleand ask if they want to publish in your ma-gazine, you make CDs, you present themwith a party, you make CD-roms with photo-graphs of party people, you insert CD-romsin your magazine, you want your readers tolisten to your music, you want your partypeople to read your texts, you invite thosewho write in your magazine to come to yourparties, you make installations from photo-graphs. You do interviews with people youmeet, you do interviews with people youwould like to meet, you tell the people youmeet about your magazine. You distributeflyers announcing your parties in the barswhere you meet people for an interview. Youbuy records in flee markets, you distributeflyers announcing parties in the bar whereyou have a coffee after visiting the flee mar-ket, you make videos recording how youdestroy the records you bought at the fleemarket, you liberate your country from itsbad music, you show the video in a galleryand you are a DJ at the vernissage whereyou invite people who wrote for your maga-zine and enjoy the party and being pho-tographed. You invite other DJ’s to DJ withyou, you are an MC and someone else is the

DJ, you welcome the people who came tothe party, you introduce people to oneanother. You are an artist and you are amediator, you mix records and you wantpeople to mix, you even mix photographs,you mix photographs of people you want tomix. You talk to the people you photograph,they invite you to their parties, where youtalk to other people about photography. Youmake T-shirts with your name, you have peo-ple wearing those T-shirts, and you makethem swear to wear your T-shirt when theygo to parties where you are not. You areeverywhere and you make people wonderwhere you are. You are at home, you areworking on your laptop, you are taking upall your e-mail conversations where you leftthem, you are updating people on your proj-ects, you are doing projects all the time. Youcall for tickets, you call for a cab, and you’rewearing two hundred pounds of materialsfrom the cab to the train. You work in differ-ent places. You move. You move from onecity to another, from one country to another.You take another cab; it takes hours to findyour place in Istanbul. You make photo-graphs and you ask others to make photo-graphs the way you want it. You distributeflyers announcing the presentation of themagazine in clubs where you are having aparty, you distribute flyers announcing aparty you are organising at the presentationof the magazine in a bookshop, youannounce another presentation of the samemagazine in another bookshop, you thankpeople for being there, you are introducingpeople you interviewed to one another, youinvite them to come over to the party. Youorganise exhibitions, you invite people topresent their work, you work with people onthe presentation, and you write announce-ments of the exhibition to the media. Youpresent yourself as someone else than youare and you are the way you present your-self. You pretend and you are for real. Yousing. You’re doing research on the swing.You make photographs from photographs,you put magazine covers in your magazine,and you cover songs. You are an artist andthat means it would be nice to get somemoney for all the things you do. You writefor subsidies, you try to get grants, you talkwith nice people who might lend you somemoney, and you have a solicitor to help you

in order to get money from people whoaren’t nice. You make dinner for people youintroduce to one another; you discuss publi-cation plans over dinner. You ask people towrite about your work, you tell them howyou work, and you show them all. Youexplain them the basic facts of a youngartist’s life. That you are an artist and that itmeans: you don’t do it for the money. That iswhat some people think. It is a great excusenot to pay you for all the things you do. Sowhat happens is that you, as an artist, putmoney into projects that others will show intheir museum, in their Kunsthalle, in theirexhibition space, in their gallery. So you arean investor. You give loans nobody will repayyou. You take financial risks. You speculateon yourself as an artistic asset. You are atrader. You cannot put all your money intoone kind of artistic stocks. So you diversifyyour activities. You manage the risks youtake. I would say it differently. You know. Isay you suffer from a gentle schizophrenia.You are multiple personalities. You are a DJ,but also a photographer. You organise par-ties but you have a serious side too that pub-lishes magazines. Just kidding. You give peo-ple photographs at parties. You considermagazines as an excuse for a party – kiddingagain – you collaborate with party people tocreate magazines, you throw a party and theDJ is a girrrrl. You’re lots of girrrrls. You walkaround with no breaks at parties of Femmeswith Fatal Breaks and you are so shy youdon’t even dare to order a drink, you gohome with two hundred pounds of CDs, yousell them at another party, you put photo-graphs of party people on CD-roms youinsert in your magazine, you invite thosewho write in your magazine to come to yourparties, you make photographs of installa-tions, not to mention what you expect fromyour readers and listeners. You meet peoplefor interviews, you do interviews as an alibito meet people, and you tell the people youmeet about your party life. You distribute fly-ers announcing your magazine in the barswhere you meet people for an interview. Youbuy records in second hand shops when it isjust too rainy to go the flee market, you dis-tribute flyers announcing parties in the barwhere you have a nice hot cup of tea aftershopping, you sell the videos recording howyou destroy the records you bought at the

Home

Dieter Lesage on art and parties

Sarah Morris, Los A

ngeles, 2004, video

Phil Collins, the world w

on’t listen, 2005. Courtesy: Phil Collins and Kerlin G

allery

34 35ir kartu jas aktyvuoti, turëti ir ateitá, ir praeitá tuo pat metu? Ar todël antras trienalës pavadinimas yra ðizoparoda? Ar buvo bûtina pasirinkti pozicijà? Ar tvirtin- dami, kad „juodosios rinkos visuomet yra agnostinës“, bandote sakyti, kad tas pats teiginys tinka ir parodai? Ir ar tiesa, kad bandote mëgdþioti juodøjø rinkø

revision of Bolshevik art history?H8W:It wasn’t received as politically as wethought. We talked to the State Secretary inthe Ministry of Culture who responded interms of the 1991 TV tower killings inVilnius. He saw in it a public sculpture thatcould beautify some problem spots in thecity. In general we want to use the project tohighlight the relationship between art andthe State. The next stage is to launch awesite and present posters of the project inthe London Underground, and to involvetechnical universities to detail how it couldbe done. With this knowledge we want tobuild a substantial chunk of the tower soon.So we figure we will end up with a frag-mented and corporate looking version ofTatlin’s Tower that could fit into everynation’s 1% rule! In this sense it will docu-ment and reflect contemporary fundingstrategies… Hopefully the TTproject can alsodevelop to become a hub for exchange ofpeople’s comments and critiques. When youdo something like this you are also forced toremember – whether you like it or not – thatthere was a dream of an international, thatthere was a utopia that was being nurtured.Why is there no such dream now? So the TTproject is at the same time a romanticisation

and a de-romanticisation of the artist’s rolein society, because it has this grass-rootsyidealism to it at the same time as it will laybare what people will put up with, and whattechnical, bureaucratic, economical barrierswe will come up against trying to realise it.LBL:In your video installation Mr. Hysteriayou are applying the psychiatric definition ofhysteria to the political reality of populism. H8W:We talked about how you mightdefine the antithesis to populism – how orwhen are you not a populist? This broughtup the issue of what is defined as reality andas the other of reality. This got us on tothemes such as madness and criminality andthe changing definitions of hysteria: for theancient Greeks, Hysteria was up thereamongst the other goddesses, until themoment of 19th century medical sciencewhen it became a female illness with thewoman basically defined as irrational draw-ing on earlier ideas of a wandering womb.Its contemporary incarnation could be said tobe symptoms without a cause – or a gapbetween consensus and individual percep-tion. So the locations where Mr. Hysteriaisfilmed in – the editorial office of a Berlinnewspaper, a maternity clinic in Berlin, apolice station in Vilnius, and the Berlin Stock

Exchange – all concern a certain flexibility inreality. They are places that live on a softreality, such as the mass media reality or, onthe stock exchange, the part of capitalismthat speculates on the value of things. Thepolice station is perhaps not a particularlysoft reality, but rather the opposite – a placefor reinforcement of dogma and place ofconflict… The maternity clinic is about a shiftin reality between generations; about some-body appearing without a reality. It is basical-ly the place you see first.LBL:All three projects seem to revolvearound themes such as faith and conviction.On more level than one – I mean, also inrelation to your own practice?H8W:We use art to try to do things out of

the ordinary, to make things that are notordinarily there. And – hopefully withoutbeing too tacky – you could also say that welook for the humanity within institutions, forhow much leeway they can give to do otherthings.

Lars Bang Larsen curated the Populismexhi-bition together with Cristina Ricupero and

Nicolaus Schafhausen.

Henry V

III’s Wives, Tatlin’s Tow

er and the World: Poster Proofs for the London U

nderground, 2005

Henriko V

III þmonos, Tatlino bokðtas ir pasaulis: plakatø Londono m

etro stotims pavyzdþiai, 2005

that appears in space installation, designedfor more spatial experiences?CN:Sound installations have very differentstarting point. Performance is very time-framed. Installations are stretched in muchlonger time and have to take effect at anymoment the viewer enters the space.Probably I would never give to installationsthe kind of dynamism and intensity that I

give to performances. There is much morephysics and I try to concentrate on a basicphenomena of sound. TB:Thank you for your interview and thespectacular show.

Tautvydas Bajarkevièius is a sound artist andart critic based in Vilnius.

Carsten Nicolai is also a renowned as aninstallation artist producing works referringto the history of recording technology andexperimental science. Nicolai will have aninstallation in a major touring exhibition

coming to the CAC in Vilnius at the end of2006.

Home

Lars Bang Larsentalks with Henry VIII's Wivesabout PopulismFrom tthe GGrasss-Rooots tto tthe Skky

Under a flimsy spring sun on the Marktplatzin Frankfurt, Lars Bang Larsen talked to theartists group Henry VIII’s Wivesabout thework they did for the Populism exhibitions.Populismopened (almost) simultaneously inVilnius, Oslo, Amsterdam and Frankfurt dur-ing April and May 2005. Henry VIII’s Wives–Rachel Dagnall, Lucy Skaer, Per Sander, SirkoKnüpfer, Simon Polli and Robert Grieve –produced three different yet interrelatedprojects for the four venues: a piece ofTatlin’s tower; a video installation realised onthe road between the four openings; and aten metre long organ pipe in oak that mademore fervent believers of the exhibitionguests at the CAC in Vilnius.

Larrs BBanng LLarrsen:The organ pipe – with thetitle 32 Feet =The Length of a Fingernailgrown since 1730 =8Hz / Subsonic– makesa sound that is barely audible to the humanear. Instead the brain tries to tune in to thesubsonic vibes, which makes you queasy anddizzy and if you listen to it for long enoughit supposedly makes you hallucinate – andmaybe even see God! I guess you could saythat the organ is a kind of proto-populistmedium. Why were you interested in doingthis in Lithuania?Henry VVIII’s WWives:It is a fervently Catholiccountry that is densely populated withchurches. The tradition of the organ doesthat as it is an ingrained and established

form of reality.In this senseour organ pipegoes beyondreligion andcomments onexpression aswell as repres-sion. So there isa play-offbetween theChurch and theSoviet history ofLithuania thatwe were inter-ested in map-ping. And ofcourse the factthat it plays thelowest note inthe registerpoints towardsthe realms ofthe paranormaland theextrasensory…this is also a sort of pun on ‘populism,’which goes for the lowest common denomi-nator. It is a kind of fair ground ride or spec-tacle. It also reflects on its own production:the builder created a network to figure outhow to do it because it has never been builton this scale before. The organ builder com-munity is fairly small in Europe but now thewhole network knows about it because they

have been taken into advice!LBL:With your Tatlin’s Towerproject youpropose to finally construct the tower thatVladimir Tatlin proposed for the 3rdCommunist Internationalin 1920 but neverwas built. You figure that it will take youabout a decade to realise it in full scale, bitby bit, as installations and public sculptures.How did people in Vilnius respond to this

36 37operacinæ logikà? Kaip jûs reagavote á faktà, kad dalis parodos ið Londono ir Vilniaus buvo pagrobta ir perkurta Taline be jûsø sutikimo? Ar tai buvo netikëtu- mas, ar scenarijaus dalis? Ar BMW yra nuolatinë krizë? BMW = namai? Ar BMW atsirado todël, kad jûs kaip kuratoriai norëjote dirbti su grynu srautu? Daugmaþ

So in the end we have refreshed the notionof professionalism. Ryuchi Sakamoto has verysubtle and very professional approach to theinstrument in a classical way and you addthe new, also very precise and professionalquality of musicality that is still called ‘exper-imental’.CN: Yeah, I think in the experimental fieldeverybody educates [himself] in a way that isunique. When you work in electronic musicyou really have to work with the specificsound – it in itself becomes important. And Ifound interesting to merge these two things– classical and a unique approach to sound –and to give space for both to co-exist. RyuchiSakamoto is a real musician – he’s a compos-er actually. I would never consider myself inthose terms. But when Christian Fenneszsays, that there is no longer experimentalmusic – I think he means that experimentalmusic becomes normal, accepted, that weare able to listen to it without limiting our-selves saying ‘this is not music’ or ‘it’s toounusual for me’.TB:It’s still sometimes called ‘sound terror-ism’…CN:Of course there are intensities. But it’sgood that it comes to that point we accept itand really we can see both – experimentaland classical music – in one line on the hori-zon. Things don’t need to be classified thatstrongly. TB:You come from a background that ishighly connected with new musical minimal-ism. In some of your works and concepts wefind the aim to reduce, which sometimesmoves towards the concept ‘less is more,’eliminating unnecessary elements. It becamepart of the concept of Raster Noton. Eventhe name ‘Noton’, which means ‘no tone’ inGerman. We remember your emphasis onatoms and the empty spaces between twopixels. Digital aesthetics facilitates multipleways of conceptualising and provides theconceptual background to minimalism.CN:Sometimes I’m chilling-down this idea ofminimalism. Because sometimes what we aredoing is minimal for one reason: we’re tryingto shift attention to things that you normallywould not hear. So it means you need tomake things minimal around you. I try tomake everything as clean as possible becauseI don’t want to concentrate on unnecessarythings. It’s actually a functional approachmore than a minimal approach. It’s not reallythat I want to play with minimal elements.Actually we want to express ourselves withminimal elements, I mean, to strip the sounddown really. It has a certain openness. I

regard my pieces similar to architecture. Mymusic is very similar to a building that is notreally completed when just the ground struc-ture exists. There’s nothing put on top of it –just the columns and floors. TB:But it seems, things have changed a littlebit – data flows and intensive digital sur-roundings influence digital aesthetics. As wesaw in your performance today – it was veryintense like a matrix of digital waves. CN:Yes, this was one of the points aroundwhich during those years I developed aes-thetics that approaches data structure itself.And I really confront myself with a digitalinstrument – what is the instrument, whatI’m really working with. And when I create‘zero’ – it’s data, it’s text memory, when Icreate silence - it’s data, which is very noisyinside the structure of the instrument. Itbecomes quite dense. This describes also aspeed of our time. Physical speed, like we’rereally inside the moment of data speed. But Ithink with sound you still can force things,quite heavily – it’s still possible to speedthings up. For me there is increasing speedthat I can really hear in music at themoment. And of course we all are adjustingeasily to this. The tunes are getting higher;the rhythms are getting faster as well,because we have an intense rhythm of life.Especially when you come from the East –you really know what increasing speed ofsociety means. TB:I remember your impressions about var-ied experiences with Tarkovsky films. I seethe parallel in terms of time, betweenTarkovsky films and quiet microsound com-positions by Fancisco Lopez or BernhardGunter. They emphasise the concept ofdepicting sounds in time and to not let themdisappear in contemporary intensities. Itseems we have lots of approaches to that –Ryuchi Sakamoto and your collaboration isalso quite meditative.CN: Yes, of course we are longing for quiet-ness and trying to slow down our experi-ences by reacting in the opposite way. WhenI saw Tarkovsky’sStalkerabout ten years ago– the movie was slow. But if I look it now Ifeel it’s incredibly slow – I couldn’t believe Icould watch it that carefully. Then you startto think – our perception of what’s happen-ing in a film has totally changed. The post-Matrix generation has a totally differentexpectation from a film. I think I was spot-ting this because it’s of course a quality – thiskind of slowness.TB:Maybe in this context we can speakabout your specific approach to the sound Carsten N

icolai. Foto / Photo: Uw

e Walter, 2005

38 39– kà að darysiu, kur þaisiu uþ penkiø minuèiø? Ar kada nors uþbaigëte parodà? Ar manote, kad „ádomiø“ kuratoriø darbas yra provokuoti, mesti iððûkius, iðju- dinti, kvestionuoti ir siûlyti þiûrovui raktelius nuo durø, kuriø savo sàmonës ðoniniame koridoriuje jie niekada nebuvo pastebëjæ? Ar ta „BMW ðizoparoda“ turi

Carsten Nicolai aka Alva Notois one of theworld’s most famous sound artists andfounder (in the late 1990s) of the Berlinbased label Raster Noton– which had a longprehistory. Experimental electronics, soundart, post-techno, and post-minimalism underthe strong influence of digital aesthetics arekeywords describing the context in whichCarsten Nicolai works. I talked to CarstenNicolai after his performance in Vilnius, inthe Young Music 2005festival of electronicmusic.

Tauutvydass BBajjarrkevièius:Raster Noton– thelabel and artists (yourself, and co-foundersFrank Bretchneider, Olaf Bender and othersinvolved) – were part of the avant-garderesponsible for the cutting-edge tendenciesof experimental electronics in the 1990s:known for its strong identity and conceptualbackground in the sound art field. In suchcases it’s always curious to think of concep-tual shifts – in your solo project Alva Notoand the label Raster Noton – and to askwhether things have changed since thebreakout of the scene: and if so, in whichway/direction?Carrsten NNicolaii:Of course we’ve changed.We started quite small, and of course it wasa long way to reach a certain audience. Itwas much more important to create a kindof identity for the label first, and the identityof the artists we left as a secondary perspec-tive. And this we did mostly via creatingseries concepts. Artists were being invited toparticipate. And yes, this changed a little bitbecause over the last years people haverecognised the label. We’re focusing muchmore on personalities at the moment as well.We’re still following the concept of series. Inthe beginning we had two, now we havequite a bunch of continuous series, or looseseries. To mention a few, one of thestrongest series at the moment is the raster-postseries, we have people like IlpoVaisanen from Pan Sonic, who runs his littleKangaroolabel, and I think Ryoji Ikeda willhave little side project as well. TB:We all know about tendencies in EasternEurope that were happening in the arts andmusic after the fall of the Berlin Wall. But

maybe it’s even more interesting to remem-ber what was before that, because the situa-tion was a bit similar to ours. You were lis-tening to Laurie Anderson and Steve Reich inChemnitz [Carsten Nicolai’s native town atthat time known as Karl-Marx-Stadt] onBayern Zwei Radio and the middle genera-tion of Lithuanian scene had access to thesame music on Polish radio. The lack ofaccess to music and information and theneed for own ways of expression…CN:Of course we had very limited access tomusic in general. But we were very interest-ed. We couldn’t buy it so we were organis-ing it by tapes, in the early days we simplyhad the tape recorders and it was our maintool for distributing music. And exchanging.It was really the way I started – I was copyingmusic in tape quality but I think this gave mea great impact and a great education. FrankBretschneider, who was the co-founder ofRaster Noton, even had a little tape label. I’mstill using a lot of tape for installations.Talking about the radio, we were quite closeto West Germany and though for us it wasn’ta problem because we speak the same lan-guage and we could receive the frequenciesof the radio station as well. So this was quiteeasy access to the music. But I think we real-ly specialised in specific music because wealways liked to discover new things.TB:Maybe because of the lack of informa-tion? When you lack the access to some par-ticular context or information, you come toyour own approach naturally.CN:Yeah, I think this lack produced an inter-esting situation. And I’m still like this. I willcertainly never follow No.1 hits. I still alwayslook for new things, not following the bigcrowd or trendy brands. This is probably howit all started and we fell in love with music. Ididn’t make music at the time, just experi-mented with sounds and media. It was justmuch later after the wall came down thataccess to production came.TB:Early nineties?CN:Early nineties. I think it started with thepossibility to own a computer for instance,also to afford instruments. TB:Was it the second hand, analog equip-ment – so attractive for experiments at that

time?CN:Of course we tried analog things. Myfirst setup was old found oscillators from theuniversity that they had just thrown out. I’vegot an old Russian and East European oscilla-tor collection. This is how I started and I’mstill using this kind of stuff. More in a digitalway, of course, but this was the startingpoint for me. We liked this abstract idea ofsound. I was really interested in physics, thematerial basis of sound. On the one hand Ideveloped it in my installations, on the otherhand in my musical approaches. It kind ofpeaked in our collaborations with Japanesepianist Ryuchi Sakamoto (Vrioon, Insen),where everything becomes really musicallyarranged. TB:Speaking about Vrioon– it seems that itwas some kind of need to enrich and expandthe forms of musicality based on very con-centrated and minimal esthetics. You get astrong impression of freshness and say:‘Nobody did it before’. It brings very spaceyand very musical experiences. How did youapproach that kind of musicality?CN:I was always interested in natural instru-ments. I cannot play any ‘classical’ instru-ment. Usually, I’m using sounds in terms ofrhythms and frequencies, quite technicallyoriented. When I got an offer to do theseremixes, I stood in front of a variety of possi-bilities. I found pure piano samples andthought this is interesting for me becausethis is something I cannot do with a comput-er. I was interested how both would fittogether – minimal stuff that I’m doing andthis kind of classical instrument that has verystrong background.TB:And also connotations of the traditionaluse, when you have to break the standards?CN:For me it was very easy because I wasnot educated too strongly in this field. TB:As is the case with lots of artists in thearea of experimental music. The notion ofprofessionalism is interesting here. Lots ofartists in the experimental field were break-ing standards, but the experimental move-ment approached the point, as ChristianFennesz says, when it is no longer ‘purely’experimental music. Because we already havenew standards, qualities and approaches.

LJ:The new European Kunsthalle is specifi-cally conceived for Cologne, the city, whichis somehow the heart of German contempo-rary culture. However, you mentioned thatthe mission of the new institution would beto work with cultural differences. How didthis idea become urgent for the cultural eliteof Cologne and you personally?NS:This is exactly something that’s missing inthe present situation in Germany. Talkingabout things that are not coming by defini-tion only from the art market system or theso-called traditional institutional system.Though we will still have to create the exacttools and content for this new mission. Atthe moment I see the possible developmentof the concept of the European KunsthalleCologne in several directions. Firstly, one ofEurope’s universities (we haven’t decidedwhich one) should work on the history ofEuropean art after 1945, not only from theWestern European perspective, but alsoinvestigating East-West/South-North rela-tions. Then a production centre should beestablished following the best recent ideasabout contemporary art institutions inEurope, like Art Angel in London, for exam-ple. The third direction should be the urbanevaluation of the system of art institutions. Inmany cities the system undergoes majorchanges because of influence of privatemoney on city development. That’s the theo-retical part of the European KunsthalleCologne concept.LJ:But the production part is not a theory,is it?NS:No. For developing this part we will lookfor partners, collaborators in Europe andworldwide. We are building an advisoryboard, consisting of personalities who caninfluence European cultural politics on thelarge scale.LJ:Does this mean that the artists and otherculture figures who started this initiativedon’t try to avoid politics by creating a newperfect home for themselves – rather theyreally want to have an active say in today’spolitics…NS:Yes, they want to take part in the politi-cal discussion. LJ:In connection with political engagementand in general – how utopian is the project,and how realistic?NS:I think it is realistic. And generally speak-ing, it is high time to finish the permanentreformation of social/political and cultural lifeand start thinking about steady basic ideas. LJ:I know it too well, as you may know, thisspirit of change and reformation. For more

than 10 years in Lithuania every sphere ofpublic life trumpeted about reforms and peo-ple haven’t really reflected enough abouttheir content and outcome. NS:Exactly – what does it mean, a reform?LJ:Another thing that interests me iswhether you find the collaboration withartists – Das Lochis mainly an artists’ initia-tive – on this new art institution productive.As far as I know your own background isthat of an artist, however, my question ismore prompted by the real tightness of theartists/art institutions’ relationship in contem-porary Lithuania.NS:Yes, my background is as an artist butwhen I started my career as a curator Istopped being an artist. My curatorial prac-tice is not an art project. And speaking aboutthe Cologne artists’ initiative, I never workedin such a situation before; it is completelynew for me too. Interestingly, artists, in gen-

eral and these artists in particular, are sopowerful today and well established in themarket. Some of them, like RosemarieTrockel for instance, are not only artists, theyare cultural political factors. My contract isfor two years. And I see my main missionduring this period of time to build a dis-course about institutional practices related tocultural politics. This is the aim of the DasLochcultural initiative as well. LJ:Do you intend to present art projects dur-ing these two years? How do you plan tocommunicate with the public?NS:There are lots of possibilities to makethings visible. Cologne is also a media/presscity, even if not as powerful as Frankfurt,Berlin or Hamburg. As I’ve said before, Ibelieve in high culture, in the power of intel-lectuals, and this is why we are building upthe group of not only European but alsointernational advisers, which could have realinfluence and even political power. EuropeanKunsthalle Cologne needs power to realiseits ideas. LJ:What is your personal attitude towards acontemporary art institution? Do you see itmore as a platform, which stimulates a dis-course, a laboratory of ideas or rather as a

space that exhibits art works, where artistsrealise projects?NS:Contemporary art institutions cannotonly be laboratories. That does not allowthem to do all the other important thingsthey have to do. A contemporary art institu-tion is also an ordinary exhibition place. I likeexhibitions and I like common visitors toexhibitions with their natural emotionalresponse to art works. I am not interested inestablishing a discourse solely for the artcontext. This is more the domain of universi-ties. Kunsthalles and Kunstvereins are notuniversities. LJ:Do you mean that institutions should tryand be as good examples of a certain modelas they can: a good university should be agood university…?NS:Yes. A library has to be a library, anarchive must be an archive and a museumshould be a museum with a collection like a

collection… LJ:Do you haveany favouritesamong contempo-rary art institution?NS:A number ofinstitutions todaydo a good job anddevelop goodideas. But it’s again

mostly about reformation. I think that at acertain moment one has to stop developingideas, which aren’t contemporary any more. LJ:But we usually associate reformation andchange with revolution and progress – theopposite is conservatism and stagnation. NS:Not necessarily. Europe now goesthrough a conservative revolution andthrough a conservative reformation.

At this point our conversation was cut shortas Nicolaus was bundled into a taxi by col-leagues to avoid being late for his ownopening at the Stedelijk. It is a conversationabout institutional models that I am keen tocontinue… Watch this space.

Lolita Jablonskienë is a chief curator of thenew National Gallery of Art, and is co-com-missioner of the Lithuanian presentation (of

Jonas Mekas) at the 51st Venice Biennale.

Report

Tautvydas Bajarkevièius talks toCarsten Nicolai in Vilnius

40 41ateitá? Ar BMW yra begalinë paroda? Ar pamenate, kada pirmàkart jums uþ tai sumokëjo? Kodël apsauginis verkë? Jei tai kûrinys – kas autorius? Kaip suge- bëjote prarasti kontrolæ ir leisti atsirasti paralelinëms struktûroms? O gal tai buvo tiksliai suplanuota ir sureþisuota? Kaip tapote dviem? Paèioje pradþioje buvote

Seeccoonndd ttiimmee rroouunndd

Thousands of words have been written inreview of sequels, second films, and secondnovels. Critics, and audiences alike, want toknow whether the potential of the firstinstallment has been fulfilled and if theapproach and audience experience is stillfresh: or whether it all feels second-hand.INTERVIU stands at this threshold. Only timewill tell.

We write, as the Contemporary Art Centre isabout to release the major catalogueEmission that is also a second edition ofsorts: as it follows on from the major exhibi-tion and publication Lithuanian Art 1989-1999: The Ten Years. Its focus is seven artistswho belonged to the generation of the1990s from the perspective of the mid-pointof the first decade of the third millennium.Structured around seven monographic pro-jects the Emission catalogue abuts the artists,sets them like dominoes, gives them a littleshove – who can predict how they will fall?

For some reason 2005 seems to be a zeit-geist year. Prophesying – and its other – isusually reserved for decadal shifts. But anumber of events have taken place in quicksuccession at the mid-point of the decadethat make deeper historical analysis palpable:listing a few is easy enough; the death of aPope, the 60th anniversaries of the liberation

of the Nazi death camps and the end of thewar in Europe, the opening of the HolocaustMemorial in Berlin, the process of ratifyingthe EU constitution, the launch of the super-sized Air Bus and Boeing. It is also, depend-ing how you are counting, 15 years since theliberation of a huge proportion of Europe[and Europeans] from the Soviet occupation.And all of this has become the subject of anumber of cultural events, articles, debates,and artworks throughout Europe [and theworld?]

INTERVIU is no different. Lolita Jablonskienëand Nicolaus Schafhausen talk about thenot-too-distant-future from their respectivepositions in charge of cultural institutionsunder construction: their critical perspectivesare honed by experience of two decades.Lithuanian artists Arûnas Gudaitis andKristina Inèiûraitë talk about the art market,which, for Lithuania is the newest institutionof all. Valentinas Klimaðauskas talks to DariusMikðys and Piotr Piotrowski one of Poland’sleading public intellectuals about what KarolWojtyla meant in that country. TautvydasBajarkevièius talks to renowned sound-artistCarsten Nicolai whose interest in experimen-tal music started in the years of the DDR andin relation to outmoded Soviet technologies.Curator Lars Bang Larsen converses with thecollaborative

group Henry VIII’s Wiveson their ongoingproject Tatlin’s Toweraiming to constructVladimir Tatlin’s proposed monument to the3rd Communist International (1920). IsTatlin’s Tower another monument to a failedideal? INTERVIU hopes not.

In the spirit of newness we launch bookreviews and reprint a text performed byphilosopher Dieter Lesage here at the CAC inApril. The reviews are aimed at books pub-lished in Lithuanian, or have appeared inrecent translation, that we predict couldhave an impact on the contextualisation andreception of contemporary art here. A hopethat is in vain if we are to believe DieterLesage’s text about the shiny-plastic-qualityof the current art milieau where nothingcounts. It is truly time to reach for our crystalball – and promise to reveal all in September.

Linara Dovydaitytë, Simon Rees

I met Nicolaus Schafhausen in Amsterdam, acouple of hours before the Populismexhibi-tion opening at the Stedelijk Museum. Thenext day Amsterdam turned into a populistfeast par excellencefor the celebration ofthe 30th anniversary of Queen Beatrix’s coro-nation. A week earlier Populism, curated bySchafhausen, Cristina Ricupero and LarsBang Larsen, opened at the CAC in Vilniusand by the time I arrived in Amsterdam more

than two thousand visitors had been clockedby Superflexand Jens Haaning’s visitors’counter. We started our conversation aboutnew European art institutions in Vilnius, asnews broke that Schafhausen was leavingthe directorship at Frankfurter Kunstverein tolead a nascent institution. Because I amworking on the establishment of a nationalmuseum of modern and contemporary art, Iwas keen to chat about how institutions rise

and define their mission in the complex cul-tural field and how they interact ‘institutionalcritique’ that has developed within contem-porary art practices. Frankly speaking, Iexpected a conversation between two peo-ple ‘standing in front of a foundation pit’and was pleasantly surprised to encounter acompletely different attitude towards found-ing an art institution.

Lolita JJabblonskienë:Shall we start from thebeginning: what is the title of the new institu-tion and when will it open?Nicolauus Scchaffhauusen:I should maybe say afew words about art institutions. If you lookat them, especially at Middle European institu-tions involved in distribution of contemporaryart, you will see that their financial structure,the proportion of public and private funding,their strategic functions in the urban structureof cities has changed dramatically in the lastsix or seven years. At least I think so afterhaving worked as a director, not only as anartistic director but also the director of twodifferent private institutions that had histori-cally been quite powerful in terms of influ-

ence on the discourse within the art system.LJ:You mean the art system in Germany orwider?NS:I mean wider. Though Germany is, ofcourse, one of the centres of Europe, evenafter suffering several economical crises sinceunification. It is an extremely important coun-try when it comes to the reception, distribu-tion and production of contemporary art. Italso has a very interesting history of institu-tions working with contemporary art. A num-ber of institutional models – from Kunstvereinto Kunsthalle, city based, publicly fundedinstitutions, and further to big private andpublic museums – were adopted in manyother European countries and to my opinion

developed in a much more successful way.LJ:Why do you think it happened so?NS:This is one of the basic questions that Ihave to answer while working on the conceptof the European Kunsthalle Cologne.LJ:So this is the official title?NS:Yes, that’s the recently accepted title ofthe project – European (not Europäische)Kunsthalle Cologne, even if it sounds contra-dictory. What does European KunsthalleCologne mean? It is not even clear if it everwill exist as a real physical space. However,when I was invited to apply for the director-ship of this non-existent institution I thought(from a common Middle European perspec-tive) that working on it might be one of the

goals in my work as a curator. I think I havethe necessary experience: I know how towork in the local German and internationalcontexts, how to work with cultural differ-ences; I have worked in other European coun-tries, cities, within different institutional mod-els, etcetera, etcetera. I start [in June 2005which is quite soon] with the support of theprivate initiative called Das Loch. It is an asso-ciation built by the cultural elite of Cologne.People like Rosemarie Trockel, one of themost important German artists, Kasper König,the director of the Ludwig Museum, a well-known gallerist Christian Nagel and theextremely famous actor Udo Kier, and othersfounded the association Das Loch,which

translates as ‘a hole’. When looking at therecent status of Cologne in the European artsystem, one clearly sees that it has lost thepower and influence in writing contemporaryart history which it definitely had, at leastfrom the Western European point of view,from late 1940s to late 1980s. LJ:And what are the aspirations of thisCologne cultural elite now?NS:First of all it does not want to leave thefield of art institutions in the hands of citypoliticians only. Cologne already had aKunsthalle, since 1980, which wasn’t succes-sful for many years and a quite well knownKölnischer Kunstverein recently reopenedafter reconstruction and operates in the newspace. However, both of these spaces are des-tined to be destroyed as the city plans tobuild one new cultural centre, something youfind in many other European cities, in whichmuseums of different fields and various othercultural institutions are brought under oneroof and construct this new institutionalmodel. The plan is to build it in the middle ofthe city, in the centre of Cologne. Thereseems to have not been enough money andpolitical will to develop the concept of thisinstitution, so the activists, this cultural initia-tive tried to approach the political power witha different proposal: declining the offer of thecity to take part in conceiving the culturalcentre and having an idea – only an idea andnot more than that – to work on the conceptof a new institution; the so called EuropeanKunsthalle Cologne. The institution wouldwork on cultural differences and not onlyimplement the visions of city politicians.Personally, I think it is a very interesting move-ment though at the moment nothing is reallyclear or settled. Together with a team that isnot yet built I will start working on the con-cept of the European Kunsthalle Cologne –whatever it will be.LJ:I understand that you’re going to work onthe concept – there’s no piece of land, no realfoundation pit that you would be lookinginto?NS:No. No piece of land, no pit, nothing. LJ:May I ask you something about the back-ground of this initiative? What do you thinkabout the relations between contemporary artand elite(s): in general and in this particularcase?NS:I deeply believe in high culture. We aresurrounded by various kinds of high and lowculture. Contemporary art historically wasalways situated in the system of high culture.So why should we avoid it? Besides it doesnot mean that high culture can’t be popular.

Focus

Lolita Jablonskienë talks to NicolausSchafhausen

42 43vienas ar trys? Kas pavogë parodà? Vilnius ar Londonas? Ar slapto gyvenimo iðradimas ir puoselëjimas veda á laisvæ? Ar tai labiau buvimas neskaidriu, ar dvigubu? Kiek menininkø-vaiduokliø pakviesta dalyvauti parodoje? O kaip ten su klonais? www.blackmarketworlds.lt

2 / 2005: the quarterly conversation about art

Focus: Lolita Jablonskienë talks to Nicolaus Schafhausen

Report: Tautvydas Bajarkevièius talks to Carsten Nicolai in Vilnius

Home: Lars Bang Larsen talks with Henry VIII's Wives about Populism

Dieter Lesage on art and parties

Away: Arûnas Gudaitis and Kristina Inèiûraitë talk about Paris

Say what?: Valentinas Klimaðauskas talks to Piotr Piotrowski and Darius Mikðys

Library: Raminta Jurënaitë and Gintautas Maþeikis

Artist's project: Mirjam Wirz

Contemporary Art Centre, Vilnius www.cac.lt

INTERVIU