ukedchat archive 16 december 2010
TRANSCRIPT
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
1/34
username time status
Ideas_Factory 19:59 RT @Creativeedu: RT @colport: Join @janwebb21 for #ukedchat "Why do
so many new teachers leave within 5 years and how we can reduce drain?"
janwebb21 19:59 Welcome to #ukedchat!!! an hour long discussion coming up to discuss
why somany new teachers leave within 5 years - and how to reduce drain!
janwebb21 20:00So what factors are discouraging new teachers from staying in the
profession? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:01RT @colport: @janwebb21 It's an interesting one! Is this more a problem
at secondary than primary? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:01@frogphilp what sort of staff development is needed then? #ukedchat
colport 20:01@janwebb21 It's an interesting one! Is this more a problem at secondary
than primary? #ukedchat
frogphilp 20:01
@janwebb21 main factor: poor staff development from slt. #ukedchatcolport 20:02
Has anyone seen colleagues leaving within 5 years? Where do they go?
#ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:02 good evening. are the teachers leaving necessarily 'weak' teachers? What
if they have taught 5 ruddy great years? #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:02 I know at least two who have left purely as a result of extreme behaviour
issues they've felt uncomfortably dealing with #UKEdChat
janwebb21 20:02RT @philallman1: @janwebb21 #ukedchat workload, going into profession
for wrong reasons.
janwebb21 20:02@colport @frogphilp #ukedchat and does it depend on the teacher's
previous employment experience?
philallman1 20:02@janwebb21 #ukedchat workload, going into profession for wrong
reasons.
Ideas_Factory 20:02 #ukedchat Lack of work/life balance, People come into prof thinking its an
easy job but they find in reality that their old life was better
ianaddison 20:02@janwebb21 how about a 70 hour working week? No recognition from
SMT? Getting abuse from children/parents? #ukedchat
leeandrewdunn 20:03 #ukedchat are there any stats to show demographics - male / female /geography etc of NQTs and those leaving the profession?
john_at_muuua 20:03It would be worse for the profession if there was stability in retention. we
need new blood to enhance teaching. #ukedchat
colport 20:03@john_at_muuua Indeed....and where do you go if you do leave?
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:03@john_at_muuua but if they've taught 5 great years, why leave something
that is working well? #ukedchat
philallman1 20:03 RT @colport: Has anyone seen colleagues leaving within 5 years? Where
do they go? #ukedchat< outside teaching I had the 5 yr itch too!
Ideas_Factory 20:03@frogphilp #ukedchat Leaving School maybe but surely not the entire
profession
Page 1 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
2/34
misshbond 20:04Two people I graduated with have left teaching already because of the
enormous after school workload... #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:04@CreativeEdu @deerwood #UKEdChat is the type of training also part of
the problem?
mr_chadwick 20:04@colport Two friends of mine ended up in police force! #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:04 I friends who have done 'teachfirst' and struggled to make it through, all
have hated it. Not heard one positive story! #UKEdChat
janwebb21 20:04 RT @leeandrewdunn: #ukedchat are there any stats to show demographics
- male / female / geography etc of NQTs and those leaving the profession?
deerwood 20:04 Why do teachers leave the profession, perhaps because they're no longer
treated like professionals http://bit.ly/i1huom #ukedchat
philallman1 20:04 RT @janwebb21: @colport @frogphilp #ukedchat and does it depend onthe teacher's prev empl exp.?< yes! got to go into it for rt reasons
colport 20:04@philallman1 Outside teaching, I had the 1/2/3/4/5 year itch, until
decided after 12 years to 'go for it'! #ukedchat
deerwood 20:05@janwebb21 do you mean initial teacher training or the lack of
subsequent training? #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:05@CreativeEdu interesting as Gove seems to see teachfirst as the PGCE
replacement #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:05 RT @misshbond: 2 ppl I graduated with have left teaching already cos of
enormous after school workload... -> Def a major issue! #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:05tech question - have been recommended twitterfall to follow #UKEdChat
can I write tweets on there too or just read?
philallman1 20:05 RT @janwebb21: #UKEdChat is the type of training also part of the
problem?< yes is current training relevant or lead them to false concl.
colport 20:05@mr_chadwick Wow....from teaching to Police Force?!? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:05RT @Catriona_O: @janwebb21 #ukedchat!! good topic! do we need to
rethink teacher ed quotas and throughput?
janwebb21 20:05 @misshbond so what makes a workload balanced? #ukedchat
Catriona_O 20:05@janwebb21 #ukedchat!! good topic! do we need to rethink teacher edquotas and throughput?
janwebb21 20:06RT @colport: This begs the question that people come into the teaching
thinking it's an easy option? #ukedchat
cleverfiend 20:06 @Creativeedu you can tweet from Twitterfall too for #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:06RT @deerwood: Perhaps because they're no longer treated like
professionals < think this could be a factor #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:06 @deerwood both!!!! #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:06@Catriona_O i being a teacher isn't what you do, it's what you are - quotas
don't touch that! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:06 #ukedchat The majority that do leave have no exp of other life just uni
then Teaching-having worked for 12 years b4 teaching I appreciate it
Page 2 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
3/34
colport 20:06This begs the question that people come into the teaching thinking it's an
easy option? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:07@john_at_muuua I wonder if anyone has experience of teachfirst and how
it affects retention rates? #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:07@colport #ukedchat Of course they do-look at the 'working hours and the
holidays' easy life ;^)
philallman1 20:07 #ukedchat often say that I love my job but nowadays you HAVE to know its
what you want to do. You can't fall into this profession anymore!
colport 20:07@Ideas_Factory Some people in the profession do not appreciate the time
outside teaching. #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:07Everyone's saying workload causes teachers to quit. Why do we do it?
Didn't we discuss this few week's back? #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:07 @colport @mr_chadwick I know coppers who've become teachers, works
both ways. But what of experienced soldiers?#ukedchat
frogphilp 20:07 @Ideas_Factory some schools can be so stressful the teachers never
recover and leave not just the school but the profession. #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:07 @john_at_muuua having worked in a school with teachfirst teachers, i
would say NOT, they weren't good! #UKEdChat (they don't want to teach!)
colport 20:07 @Ideas_Factory Me & you are spookily similar #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:08 RT @Smichael920: @janwebb21 Ofsted,sats, high level accountability, low
level freedom, high level prescription, little creativity. #ukedchat
dailydenouement 20:08 I'm in my 3rd yr of teaching. Previous career in retail mgmt & HR. don't
think could cope with workload if this had been 1st job. #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:08 RT @mr_chadwick: RT @deerwood: Perhaps because theyre no longer
treated like professionals < think this could be a factor - Agree #ukedchat
Smichael920 20:08@janwebb21 Ofsted,sats, high level accountability, low level freedom, high
level prescription, little creativity. #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:08 My friend's done 6years, she's having a baby to have a year's break then
going to quit to do 'anything else' cos she's shattered #ukedchat
colport 20:08 @john_at_muuua You trouble maker you ;-) #ukedchatjanwebb21 20:08 @CreativeEdu so what DID they want to do?!?!!! #UKEdChat
john_at_muuua 20:08if soldiers are fit for teaching are we fit for Iraq? transferable skills?!
#ukedchat
misshbond 20:08 @janwebb21 No idea! As NQT I'm trying to find balance between working
and spending time with my fella, let alone anything else! #ukedchat
deerwood 20:08@ianaddison Is it the workload or the lack of recognition for the work
done? #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:09@deerwood workload. I have 54 things on my to do list. Looking to work
for at least 5days of Xmas 'holidays' #ukedchat
philallman1 20:09#ukedchat teachfirst - the name itself implies you won't do it for the rest of
your working life.
Page 3 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
4/34
Creativeedu 20:09 @janwebb21 they saw teachfirst as a stepping stone that would beef up
their CVs for when they went to work in the city. #UKEdChat
mr_chadwick 20:09@john_at_muuua @colport True. I recently had ex-police student teacher
in my class (not the greatest!) #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:09@colport #ukedchat Sorry should clarify I appreciate how lucky I am to be
a teacher having worked in crappy jobs for 12 years
janwebb21 20:09@misshbond balance is always a challenge - whether new at it or not!!!!
#ukedchat
Kattle9 20:09 RT @Creativeedu: tech question - have been recommended twitterfall to
follow #UKEdChat can I write tweets on there too or just read?
misshbond 20:10 @janwebb21 Good thing is I can think about them and know at least I'm
sticking with it! Amazing moments outweigh workload for me #ukedchat
deerwood 20:10 not convinced that working elsewhere before being a teacher is always agood thing, we need young teachers with fresh ideas too #ukedchat
headteacher01 20:10 trying to support my wife with her workload as Y5 teacher certainly
opened my eyes - far too many tears and negative thoughts #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:10 @CreativeEdu what a shame? #UKEdChat
janwebb21 20:10@colport @Ideas_Factory I made it out of industry in 2 years!!! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:10@frogphilp #ukedchat Completely agree-more to do with SMT ineptitude-
but yes staff dev does come under this.
carolrainbow 20:10I do think that people often think working with small children may be an
easy option - and fun! Fun yes - easy no... #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:10
@dailydenouement Teaching is my 1st 'proper' job, but its what ive
always wanted 2 do so happy 2 put up with workload 4 vocation!
#ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:10@CreativeEdu Throw a 1:1 degree in front of a class and they can instantly
teach? seriously flawed theory behind that. #ukedchat
Catriona_O 20:10 #ukedchat!! not talking about quitting - I know loads who've come back as
adult learners &feel like they're fightinging 4 every day.s work
philallman1 20:10
RT @ianaddison: My friend's done 6years, she's having a baby to have a
year's break #ukedchat < you sure about that?!
philallman1 20:11#ukedchat Ave age of an NQT now is over 30 so that says something about
retraining rates.
Laura_987 20:11
RT @deerwood: not convinced that working elsewhere before being a
teacher is always a good thing, we need young teachers with fresh ideas
too #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:11@dailydenouement #ukedchat I agree having worked in similiar-like I said
earlier equiped me for stresses of teaching
john_at_muuua 20:11@philallman1 Ha Ha! teachfirst... something else later :-) #ukedchat but
seriously, is retention really an issue?
Creativeedu 20:11 Teachfirst makes little sense to me. by the time they are settled in they'rebuggering off to become bankers... #UKEdChat
Page 4 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
5/34
janwebb21 20:11
RT @misshbond: @janwebb21 Good thing is I can think about them and
know at least I'm sticking with it! Amazing moments outweigh workload
for me #ukedchat
CHAR0ULA 20:11 so much pressure because teachers have to answer to kids,parents,school
leaders,governors the government....#ukedchat
Reteach10 20:11 RT @ianaddison: Looking to work for at least 5days of Xmas 'holidays'
#ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
6/34
janwebb21 20:13 RT @mr_chadwick: Don't think teachers get professional credit/respect
from general public in same way doctors, nurses, etc do #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:13 RT @mr_chadwick: Don't think teachers get professional credit/respect
from general public in same way doctors, nurses, etc do #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:13 RT @carolrainbow: wages are not good at the start #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
7/34
theteachinggame 20:15 @john_at_muuua #ukedchat I think that it easier to mistake teaching as a
"calling" than most professions.Many soon find out it is not theirs
deerwood 20:15but then if you joined teaching for the money you perhaps made the
wrong choice! #ukedchat 2/2
janwebb21 20:15
RT @ianaddison: God anyone training to be a teacher will look at
#ukedchat and wonder why they're doing it. Cos it's the best job in theworld of course
john_at_muuua 20:16@mr_chadwick why do we need respect? Do we become teachers to be
popular? :-) #ukedchat
deerwood 20:16 @colport absolutely agree with you there #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:16 RT @ianaddison: @carolrainbow I was enjoying teaching right from the
beginning, but maybe i'm a workaholic (ok, no maybe about it) #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:16@carolrainbow I was enjoying teaching right from the beginning, but
maybe i'm a workaholic (ok, no maybe about it) #ukedchat
sellyeve 20:16 RT@deerwood I think being a career changer has given me resilience & an
ability to cope with the extraneous pressure #ukedchat
deerwood 20:16@Crosbiei not sure pay is always better but job security certainly is!
#ukedchat
carolinebreyley 20:16 @philallman1 #ukedchat Asking from Scotland - isn't it expectation that
teach first will move on to something else after couple of years?
Reteach10 20:16@Crosbiei completely agree - vocation is the key thing and in fact for me
makes up for any lack of cash #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:16 RT @twfall: Log in on the left and then you can tweet from the 'New
Tweet' link at the top.re twitterfall - recommended for #UKEdChat
janwebb21 20:16@john_at_muuua does longevity mean burnout necessarily!?!! or
experience, bigger skills base, etc #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:16@ianaddison for those of us that survive the first five years it is - maybe
not so at the beginning? Is that the problem? #ukedchat
sellyeve 20:17RT @Reteach10: @Crosbiei completely agree - vocation is the key thing
and in fact for me makes up for any lack of cash #ukedchat
Catriona_O 20:17#ukedchat. don't know many teachers who joined only for money. Money
+ hols, different story.......
deerwood 20:17@carolrainbow that could be a useful plan especially if schools have tostart recruiting and training staff #ukedchat
philallman1 20:17
RT @john_at_muuua: @mr_chadwick why do we need respect? Do we
become teachers to be popular? :-) #ukedchat < because we're human
beings
Reteach10 20:17
@dailydenouement might make the job slightly easier if people
understood more about the job - with respect comes understanding?
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:17RT @misterel: ..... Great job, no day is the same, challenging, constantly
learning, fun, good holidays & pretty secure #ukedchat
theteachinggame 20:17 @john_at_muuua @ianaddison I think it's good not to paint teaching as
rosy. Prospectives should know all the facts #ukedchat
Page 7 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
8/34
Creativeedu 20:17It strikes me from these tweets that teaching is a vocation & people only
stay if it's in their heart to do so? #UKEdChat
Crosbiei 20:17RT @Reteach10: @Crosbiei vocation is key thing & in fact 4 me makes up 4
any lack of cash #ukedchat -> couldnt agree more!
Ideas_Factory 20:17 @deerwood #ukedchat I say differently-once you've been teaching for a
few years & willing to take on responsiblity-pay is much better
carolrainbow 20:17 I wonder if there would be a better retention rate if new teachers
partnered teachers for a year, then 1/2 time on own for a year? #ukedchat
dailydenouement 20:17 Do you think teaching is 'sold' properly? Are we unrealistic about the
realities of it? Do we give a true picture to trainees? #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:18anyone who can make it through the crazy #PGCE year should find real
teaching a doddle ;-) #UKEdChat
Crosbiei 20:18Is there a problem with people being pushed into the profession because
there's a view that 'anyone can do it'? #ukedchat
alxr1 20:18
My ex-Head called a colleague 'Maverick', Ofsted gave him a
commendation. Do some SMT's encourage 'maverick' innovators 2 leave?
#ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:18 @Smichael920 #ukedchat Agreed-boils down to crappy teacher training-I
learnt more from my 4 teaching placements than I ever did from uni
misshbond 20:18 RT @creativeedu: It strikes me from these tweets that teaching is a
vocation & people only stay if it's in their heart to do so? #UKEdChat
theteachinggame 20:18 @john_at_muuua @mr_chadwick I think respect is just a general need in
people's lives. It doesn't have to do with popularity #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:18 @janwebb21 never said necessarily (I'm in that crowd), but still, if that's
the choice what would you want? old timer burntout?#ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:18 @Ideas_Factory I'm sure that's part of it #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:18@ianaddison Yes I did too - some people are born to it - but I think others
could learn if supported #ukedchat
Laura_987 20:18@mikemcsharry What do you meant by 'detailed clutter'? #PGCE
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:18@john_at_muuua does populairity = respect? I don't think so! #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:18I do think trainees should be put into schools early and made to work,
would help separate those that can't manage #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:19@philallman1 depends on the head, depends on the maverick! #ukedchat
deerwood 20:19 @Ideas_Factory fair point but pay improves wiv responsibility in industry
too. In teaching you may get responsibility without rise #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:19@mr_chadwick #ukedchat Defo different now-pupils valued and play a
much more involved part in their edu-parents too
Page 8 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
9/34
janwebb21 20:19
RT @philallman1: RT @alxr1: My ex-Head called a coll 'Maverick',. Do sum
SMT's encourage 'maverick' innovators 2 leave? #ukedchat < yes they're
threatened
mbrayford 20:19 It makes me smile when they say thank you for teaching me & have
learned something new.Their happy faces make the difference.#ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:19 @CreativeEdu I don't think it eased off that much after my PGCE year#ukedchat
philallman1 20:19 RT @alxr1: My ex-Head called a coll 'Maverick',. Do sum SMT's encourage
'maverick' innovators 2 leave? #ukedchat < yes they're threatened
cleverfiend 20:19 I suspect a lot of people enter the profession expecting to share their
subject and educate, not to have to manage poor behaviour #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:19RT @Catriona_O: #ukedchat. don't know many teachers who joined only
for money. Money + hols, different story.......
theotheralig 20:19 I did all sorts jobs before 'returning to teaching'. I wonder how long I would
be able to do it if had more than 13 years to go! #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:20 @cleverfiend so job of the PGCE courses to provide more realistic exp,
help people see whether teaching is for them earlier on? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:20@Ideas_Factory so is the way forward actually more peer mentoring
schemes for new teachers? #ukedchat
philallman1 20:20 @colport I'd say no but as a BEd I'm biased ;) #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:20 @janwebb21 do we become teachers for respect then?! both approaches
are in need of psychotherapy. my point is they're irrelevant. #ukedchat
philallman1 20:20RT @janwebb21: @philallman1 depends on the head, depends on the
maverick! #ukedchat< true - I like it!
colport 20:20 @Crosbiei One of the hardest teaching years was my PGCE - opened my
eyes. Is the PG harder than the B,Ed in that respect? #ukedchat
mikemcsharry 20:20@Ideas_Factory I learned more in sandwich course placement than uni (a
few yrs ago) - same but different #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:20
RT @Ideas_Factory: @Smichael920 #ukedchat Agreed-boils down to
crappy teacher training-I learnt more from my 4 teaching placements than
I ever did from uni
headteacher01 20:20Clearly the challenge for leaders is to ensure that our staff have the right
balance of challenge and support #ukedchat
philallman1 20:20 RT @carolinebreyley #ukedchat Asking from Scotland - isn't it exp that
teach 1st will move on 2 something else after couple of years? < yes!
sellyeve 20:20 RT @Creativeedu: anyone who can make it through the crazy #PGCE year
should find real teaching a doddle ;-) #UKEdChat #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:20 @john_at_muuua Agree with others, I don't want/need to be popular, butI deserve credit for the difficult and skilled job I do? #ukedchat
Page 9 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
10/34
philallman1 20:21RT @Missif: ths article suggests that it's dn 2 the (variable) quality of skool
leadership http://j.mp/e6ufHc #ukedchat< all 2 oftn is
mikemcsharry 20:21
@Laura_987 The amount of 'homework' new teachers have to submit
appears amazing. I'd have never got through that AFTER 4yrs uni
#ukedchat
ianaddison 20:21A couple of ch thanked me for working with them today, They didn't need
to, but it made me smile #ukedchatdeerwood 20:21 @frogphilp I feel your pain #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:21
RT @Smichael920: @Ideas_Factory same! Teaching profession has to be
seen as a creative profession. That's part of teaching college role
#ukedchat
MissiF 20:21This article suggests that it's down to the (variable) quality of school
leadership http://j.mp/e6ufHc #ukedchat
Smichael920 20:21@Ideas_Factory same! Teaching profession has to be seen as a creative
profession. That's part of teaching college role #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:21 @john_at_muuua we don't become teachers FOR respect but in order todo our jobs a certain amount of respect is essential! #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:21 @colport I did PGCE, which was a crazy year, but just dont feel like ive
stopped since then.Think BEd is slightly less stressful. #ukedchat
deerwood 20:21@CreativeEdu but can anyone really be fully trained after only 1 year?
better to train everyone for 3 or 4 years? #ukedchat
frogphilp 20:21@deerwood no. At the moment it's Manage (as in 'cope' - just about get
by) Lead, Teach. #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:21 @alxr1 My HT, many years ago did, I introduced the internet to the school
in 1995 - she and gave me freedom to experiment #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:21My friends from uni were all on their second job within 5 years, why
should teaching be different? #UKEdChat
Reteach10 20:22
RT @Creativeedu: @deerwood I think teaching is like driving. Just because
you've got your license doesn't mean you've stopped learning...
#UKEdChat
esoldaveglasgow 20:22 @john_at_muuua #ukedchat Rtention per se is not good. In fact one bbc
HR chief aimed to increase "churn" to envigorate. Scary, but real.
deerwood 20:22 @ianaddison YES, children and (some) parents can give the best rewardsperhaps new teachers don't stay long enough to see that #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:22 @deerwood 3 or 4 years could be NQT and RQT but that training isn't
necessarily focused enough in day to day of school life #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:22 @deerwood I think teaching is like driving. Just because you've got your
license doesn't mean you've stopped learning... #UKEdChat
janwebb21 20:22
RT @misshbond: RT @creativeedu: It strikes me from these tweets that
teaching is a vocation & people only stay if it's in their heart to do so?
#UKEdChat
Page 10 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
11/34
colport 20:22 @philallman1 I thought it may spark reactions like that! LOL! My B'Ed
students don't realise the pace, IMHO #ukedchat (@Crosbiei )
philallman1 20:22 @mikemcsharry @Laura_987 #ukedchat 'meaningless paperwork'
theteachinggame 20:22 @john_at_muuua I just wrote a post on new teacher retention.Think it
goes well with ur comments on the current Ukedchat http://tiny.cc/nujy8
john_at_muuua 20:22I just don't think either popularity or respect is a reason for us to do this
job. perhaps that's what makes people leave. #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:22RT @carolrainbow: @ianaddison Yes I did too - some people are born to it -
but I think others could learn if supported #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:22Just poppingin. Moving to a new sch within 3 years can help keep the
enthusiasm. #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:22 @deerwood #ukedchat My pay is on a par with my bro who works for a
bank.Only difference is he gets huge 10-20k performance related bonus
theteachinggame 20:23 @john_at_muuua What we need to do is teach teachers how to fill the
needs for respect and popularity outside of the profession. #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:23@Crosbiei are there too many variables for performance related pay? i.e.
the students themselves! #ukedchat
deerwood 20:23@CreativeEdu True .. very true ... but I'm sure many drivers got their
licence free with cornflakes! #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:23 @janwebb21 respect from whom? The original thought behind this was
'public/media'. Not children. Not parents. Not management. #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:23 @Ideas_Factory @deerwood but I bet he gets less holiday? #UKEdChat
Catriona_O 20:23 @cleverfiend is there any connection between these? #ukedchat
cleverfiend 20:23 @Reteach10 I try to give my PGCE students a realistic experience in my
school - and point out similarities/differences with others #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:23 @deerwood #ukedchat I'd like us to get paid hourly & keep a 'clock' on
hours we actually work (like solicitors) we'd get a true pay/work
janwebb21 20:23@misshbond @creativeedu isn't that the same for any job/profession!
#UKEdChat
sellyeve 20:23 RT @janwebb21: we don't become teachers FOR respect but in order to do
our jobs a certain amount of respect is essential! #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:23Is it to do with society now? What was the time for teachers leaving 10
years ago? #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:23@Ideas_Factory With all the emphasis on our performance, should we get
performance-related bonuses as well? #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:24 @esoldaveglasgow interesting concept. but the problem is that school
managers create the churn by bad management not planning #ukedchat
deerwood 20:24 @Ideas_Factory I'd like teachers to get Council Tax reduction if live in same
LA as, in effect, they're paying their own wages #ukedchat
Page 11 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
12/34
janwebb21 20:24
RT @asober: like to tnk I went into teaching 'cause that was my vocation
and I wanted to make a positive difference in the lives of my pupils!
#ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:24 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay and
love it? (and share ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:24 @cleverfiend really good to hear - i am a mentor too. not sure theexperience is consistent across the board for PGCErs #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:24@Reteach10 But its usually seen as us not doing our job properly, rather
than variance in pupils. #ukedchat
philallman1 20:24 #ukedchat Past 20 yrs has seen shift in expectation. We R seen far more as
social workers, counsellors, panacea 4 societal ills than evr
asober 20:24 like to tnk I went into teaching 'cause that was my vocation and I wanted
to make a positive difference in the lives of my pupils! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:24 @janwebb21 #ukedchat Way forward is for practising Teachers to teachgraduates not has beens that having taught for years
mr_chadwick 20:24
RT @misshbond: I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and
achieve every day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0)
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:24 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay and
love it? (and share ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:24
@Crosbiei How can you judge performance when it is all about the
performance of children who do not fit a mould!
#ukedchat@Ideas_Factory
janwebb21 20:24
RT @theotheralig: I did all sorts jobs before 'returning to teaching'. I
wonder how long I would be able to do it if had more than 13 years to go!
#ukedchat
misshbond 20:24 I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and achieve every
day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0) #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:24What's different about us then? Why do we stay and love it? (and share
ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat
asober 20:25
RT @ianaddison: yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing
the look on their faces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it
#ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:25Maybe churn is a good thing, only the strong survive??? #UKEdChat
Reteach10 20:25@Crosbiei completely agree - FFT rules rather than a real understanding of
the students themselves! #ukedchat
JaneWoods3 20:25#ukedchat would be interesting to know if schools lose more teachers who
trained via 1yr PGCE or 4yr BA/ B.Ed. Anyone know?
janwebb21 20:25@Ideas_Factory isn't that the new model for ITT that is being proposed by
gov? #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:25 yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing the look on theirfaces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it #ukedchat
Page 12 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
13/34
esoldaveglasgow 20:25Employment security is mostly very good in public sector, but this can
allow a lack of rigour in appraising effectiveness. #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:25@TheHeadsOffice You cant. But so rarely is that individuality taken into
consideration anyway! #ukedchat
colport 20:25 Performance Related Pay? How do we measure one teachers
performance? SATs? Formative Assessment? Poisoned chalice #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:25
RT @misshbond: I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and
achieve every day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0)
#ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:25 RT @Ideas_Factory: @deerwood Id like us to get paid hourly & keep a
clock on hours we actually work then wed get a true pay/work #ukedchat
Laura_987 20:25@philallman1 @mikemcsharry Oh yes, the paperwork is mental!
#ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:25@janwebb21 No I don't think so, some jobs you might do just for money or
just for worklife balance etc #UKEdChatcleverfiend 20:26
@Catriona_O I think there is a link - good teachers don't plan explicitly for
behaviour - they plan for the students #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:26 RT @JaneWoods3: #ukedchat would be interesting to know if schools lose
more teachers who trained via 1yr PGCE or 4yr BA/ B.Ed. Anyone know?
colport 20:26@Crosbiei It then begs the question of the quality of that work! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:26@deerwood #ukedchat That is genius idea-discounts for council services
etc
ianaddison 20:26I did 2yrs at the LA, they wanted 9-5. I work 7:30tilwhenever, my
timesheet looked a mess.... #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:26
RT @misshbond: I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and
achieve every day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0)
#ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:26
RT @ianaddison: yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing
the look on their faces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it
#ukedchat
mikemcsharry 20:26 @JaneWoods3 what about SCITT to compare? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:26 RT @deerwood: @CreativeEdu but can anyone really be fully trained after
only 1 year? better to train everyone for 3 or 4 years? #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:26 RT @deerwood Id like teachers to get Council Tax reduction if live in same
LA as, in effect, - paying their own wages - Great idea #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:26
RT @deerwood: @Ideas_Factory I'd like teachers to get Council Tax
reduction if live in same LA as, in effect, they're paying their own wages
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:26
RT @Reteach10: @cleverfiend so job of the PGCE courses to provide more
realistic exp, help people see whether teaching is for them earlier on?
#ukedchat
misshbond 20:26 @janwebb21 Definitely. But we're a bit biased ;0) #ukedchat
Page 13 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
14/34
TheHeadsOffice 20:26
RT @ianaddison: yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing
the look on their faces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it
#ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:26 @colport Number of hours worked? #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:26 @theteachinggame please explain that idea #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:27 #ukedchat are people more likely to stay in the profession if there is aculture of shared practice in a school? peer mentoring etc?
philallman1 20:27@politicsteacher #ukedchat I try to do this - call it 'the bubble' - sometimes
'reallife' bursts it!
Crosbiei 20:27 @colport vry tru. But then just b/c a class doesnt get gd overall SATs
results, does that mean the teacher is doin a gd job? #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:27Is there some connection between length of staying & type of training? Do
lecturuers know what happens in sch? #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:27
RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly
matters. Kids deserve the best & I try 2 make my skool a place whr they R1st
philallman1 20:27#ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly matters. Kids deserve the
best & I try 2 make my skool a place whr they R 1st
politicsteacher 20:27 don't think teaching has embraced flexible working (it is difficult to
adminster) but that is why some parents leave teaching #ukedchat
deerwood 20:27So could renegotiating terms and conditions of service help retain
teachers? #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:27 @misshbond: possibly the only reason to teach! #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:28
RT @deerwood: RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do
something that rlly matters. < that's something we should all remember..
teachers or not
john_at_muuua 20:28@CreativeEdu Maybe churn is a good thing, only the committed, talented,
inspired survive??? #ukedchat
deerwood 20:28 RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly
matters. < that's something we should all remember.. teachers or not
colport 20:28 @Crosbiei Precisely...no! There are too many variables #ukedchat
CHAR0ULA 20:28its got something to do with the mindset and dedicattion of the teacher
#ukedchat
bw_clark 20:28 #ukedchat after 11 years teaching I was seconded to #LTS #consolarium.
Great experience & gives fresh perspective on my own teaching.
Reteach10 20:28 @politicsteacher technology certainly offers education that flexibility -
perhaps introduced in 6th form before ks4/3 #ukedchat
misshbond 20:28@reteach10 Apart from all the idiots who think they want to because of
the holidays! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:28 @janwebb21 #ukedchat Not sure about new ITT Jan-all I know is they need
a complete overhall-Why teach Lit classics but no SEN procedures-mad
philallman1 20:29#ukedchat same job in different LA's - does it have an effect - LA
pressures?
Page 14 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
15/34
Reteach10 20:29@misshbond can't help feeling that they don't understand the job or
teacher's intentions #ukedchat
deerwood 20:29@CreativeEdu That can be true but I think a teacher needs to stay around
for a while to see that, it's not an instant effect #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:29 @CHAR0ULA Shoudl we not aim to just get dedicated teachers into the
profession. Isnt that pretty much vital to being a gd teacher? #ukedchat
colport 20:29 RT @john_at_muuua: Maybe churn is a good thing, only the committed,
talented, inspired survive??? #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
16/34
Tree_Of 20:31#ukedchat surely every teacher chooses teaching to make a difference,
inspire, motivate and educate?!... #notsosure
TheHeadsOffice 20:31 @Reteach10 Why don't they use staffroom? #ukedchat
mikemcsharry 20:31retention and time limiting - most have seen cons and pros of that- really
KNOW your area etc vs. retired on job #ukedchat
philallman1 20:31#ukedchat secondment and paid sabbaticals were commonplace 30 years
ago - did this keep people in the profession
Reteach10 20:31
@janwebb21 ah i work in a school where discussions are happening to
question whether we need a staffroom anymore as no1 goes there
#ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:31@Tree_Of I know ppl who have been told to go into teaching becos they
didnt know what else to do! #ukedchat
colport 20:31@Ideas_Factory Wow, that would mix it up....like the idea #ukedchat
MissiF 20:31I've been a teacher for 13 yrs & I'm still learning how to do the job. That's
why it's hard & that's why I love it! #ukedchat
bevevans22 20:31 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay & love
it? (& share ideas) #ukedchat to some it's a job, others a vocation
janwebb21 20:31 RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat left teaching twice but keep coming back. Miss
the joy of working with the kids - but don't tell them I said that!
Ideas_Factory 20:32@CreativeEdu #ukedchat I still get more holidays than him but even taking
that into account he still earns more with Bonus
Crosbiei 20:32@colport @ideas_factory #ukedchat I have a similar unspoken agreement
with myself!
janwebb21 20:32@Reteach10 #ukedchat @guyshearer uses that sort of model witin his
school
Creativeedu 20:32 @colport it works a bit like that in Japan.You just get moved by the powers
that be when they need you elsewhere, you have no say! #UKEdChat
deerwood 20:32@Ideas_Factory There's a lot to be said for that ... changing schools
exposes you to new ideas and approaches #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:32@ianaddison #ukedchat Wouldn't work as too easily open to fraud etc
bevevans22 20:32@Crosbiei And then there are others (like me) who fall into it by accident!
#ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:33@ideas_factory but I bet you have a better sense of well being! #UKEdChat
Ideas_Factory 20:33 #ukedchat Taking Variety a stage further-How about making teachers work
at least once in an inner-city school before they've finished 10 yrs
carolrainbow 20:33 @philallman1 I think it helped - people could go and do something
different for a year - recharge batteries etc - ready to return #ukedchat
alxr1 20:33#ukedchat Do some survive because they work in schools that suit their
own education/social background? @colport
misshbond 20:33 @reteach10 Reckon they must make up a large majority of those who fallby the wayside within 5 years! #ukedchat
Page 16 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
17/34
ianaddison 20:33@TheHeadsOffice @Reteach10 I sat down in the staffroom for 2minutes
today, first time in over a week #ukedchat
colport 20:33@Crosbiei @CreativeEdu It doesn't seem that easy here. Tough comp for
jobs, and jobs set aside for known applicants #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:33 @Ideas_Factory Interesting idea about variety. Not sure I totally agree
with max term; what about secondment opps more available? #ukedchat
asober 20:33@Missif I like that! We are learners too! We mustn't forget it, or we will
stop striving for greater learning #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:33 @TheHeadsOffice size of the site (nrly 0.25 miles between my rm & stfrm)
& each dept has own office/stfrm. people just stay there #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:33@bevevans22 And has it turned out to be the right place for you?
#ukedchat
jimbo9848 20:33#ukedchat Life is very hard for new teachers, suoervision, inspection.
Drudgery and the notion of working very long hours
asober 20:34 RT @janwebb21: @Missif I'm still learning after 21 years!!! it's attitude to
new ideas etc that revives, refreshes, revitalises #ukedchat
colport 20:34@Crosbiei My point is, there are many hidden agendas with job adverts
#ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:34@CreativeEdu #ukedchat and I have the higher moral ground of course :^)
GaryAveryICT 20:34 @Ideas_Factory I took a year out to help consult with ICT for private
schools.Missed having my own class and single place of work. #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:34@Missif I'm still learning after 21 years!!! it's attitude to new ideas etc that
revives, refreshes, revitalises #ukedchat
alxr1 20:34 RT @Tree_Of: #ukedchat surely every teacher chooses teaching to make a
difference, inspire, motivate and educate?!... #notsosure
TheHeadsOffice 20:34 @mr_chadwick Like the idea of secondment. Often if the 'other side of the
fence' is seen it makes things a little more objective #ukedchat
philallman1 20:34@carolrainbow that's my point carol. Do we get ground down and need
time to remember why we're doing it? #ukedchat
colport 20:34
@alxr1 Oh yes...I have a few colleagues who have stayed and lives around
the school for 10-15 years. Will not go! #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:34@colport #ukedchat Then u need to find a way to set urself apart from the
rest of the 'rabble'!
bevevans22 20:34@Crosbiei Yes - but I am aware that I'm seen as 'not like the others'. Not
that it's ever bothered me :) #ukedchat
jimbo9848 20:35#ukedchat we need flexibility for teachers, 7 period days so you can earn
days off, much less planning required as norm as well
Reteach10 20:35
@ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice good man -i am a big fan of 1 central
staffroom. you share so many more ideas not just subject based!
#ukedchat
RealLara 20:35 Think if i'd have carried on much longer at that point I'd have gotdisillusioned and left for good #ukedchat
Page 17 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
18/34
Ideas_Factory 20:35@GaryAveryICT #ukedchat But the change obviously made you realise that
you enjoyed being at the chalkface-bingo!
Creativeedu 20:35Do people leave more now than they used to. A bit like how it's 'okay' to
get divorced nowadays? #UKEdChat
john_at_muuua 20:35RT @bevevans22: @ianaddison I don't go in the staffroom unless there's a
meeting there at the end of the day...#ukedchat ditto
philallman1 20:35 @reallara consultancy - #darkside #ukedchat :)Crosbiei 20:35 @colport Very true. #ukedchat
colport 20:35@CreativeEdu I thought it would happen within an agreed radius
#ukedchat
esoldaveglasgow 20:35 @john_at_muuua Agree. I don't advocate churning, but it does take
creative leadership to prevent complacency in staffrooms.#ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:35@janwebb21 totally agree. Years in the job and I'm as fresh as yesterday
but better experienced. #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:35
RT @philallman1: #ukedchat I learn new things everyday. Someone will
find out one day I don't have all the answers!!! #goingtogetfoundout#ukedchat
bevevans22 20:35@ianaddison I don't go in the staffroom unless there's a meeting there at
the end of the day...#ukedchat
philallman1 20:35 #ukedchat I learn new things everyday. Someone will find out one day I
don't have all the answers!!! #goingtogetfoundout #ukedchat
RealLara 20:35 I think it helps to have a career break quite early on. I did 5 years then dud
consultancy work for 3 years before returning #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:35@bevevans22 Thats good. Teachers who never planned to be teachers
add a different dimension to the team! #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:35 @colport not necessarily a good thing, you can get sent hundreds of miles
away to a new school and just have to start a new life! #UKEdChat
Reteach10 20:36 @jimbo9848 the google model of working is a brilliant one if it could be
applied to teachers and teaching (impractical?) #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:36 @philallman1 consultancy=#darkside?! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:36
@mr_chadwick #ukedchat Love secondment idea-I did my NPQH
placement in secondary-just to widen my exp & see if they did things
differently
deerwood 20:36@CreativeEdu that's ironic, did you know at one time (not too long ago)
teachers were not allowed to get married? #ukedchat
GaryAveryICT 20:36@Ideas_Factory yep, got fed up suggesting things to do, wanted to try
them myself.. #ukedchat
ianaddison 20:36@bevevans22 i go to get tea, but never have chance to sit down - i find
break/lunch a great time to work #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:36@bevevans22 Some staffroom can just create negativity that does not
help! #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:36@john_at_muuua it's about being comfortable with being out of our
comfort zone that helps us grow as professionals! #ukedchat
Page 18 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
19/34
carolrainbow 20:36 @philallman1 Yes I think you have hit on a very important point there - I
had forgotten all about them -remember people enthused #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:37
RT @RealLara: Really important to change schools or have chance to
observe in other schools. Need to see there are different approaches
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:37 #ukedchat -more than half way through and some tremendous pointsbeing made
asober 20:37 I am on secondment now and I have learnt a lot already 'cause I have time
to reflect on my practice and Philosophy of learning #ukedchat
colport 20:37 @deerwood Is there? Where? #ukedchat ;-)
philallman1 20:37RT @deerwood: Perhaps teachers leave the profession because they
discover there is life beyond school #ukedchat< there is?! :)
Tree_Of 20:37#ukedchat I began teaching degree at 18 yrs of age. First piece of advice i
was given from a headteacher "dont smile till xmas"....
Creativeedu 20:37 I don't teach but I moved out of education and back in again quite early on.
The career break made me more motivated+fresh ideas #UKEdChat
RealLara 20:37 Really important to change schools or have chance to observe in other
schools. Need to see there are different approaches #ukedchat
jowinchester 20:37 @ianaddison I love the idea that nonparents have that ayear with a baby is
a break - some thongs we all have to learn the hard way #ukedchat
deerwood 20:37Perhaps teachers leave the profession because they discover there is life
beyond school #ukedchat
sellyeve 20:37Govt assume loss of 25% of BEd trainees compared with 11% PGCE. (Not
very recent data) #ukedchat
colport 20:37@Joga5 Would that lose the personal approach that primary schools can
offer? #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:38@GaryAveryICT #ukedchat There is a certain freedom being a teacher!
Creativeedu 20:38 @jimbo9848 the google model of working is a brilliant one if it could be
applied to teachers and teaching (impractical?) #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
20/34
bevevans22 20:38@ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice Our's is too busy. I eat lunch in a quieter
room . I can discuss/meet with no distractions #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:38 @deerwood really? why? #UKEdChat
redtedart 20:38Easy xmas baubles for all ages.. http://bit.ly/fN0NpH #crafts #ukedchat
#teachpreschool #artchat
philallman1 20:38 RT @Tree_Of: #ukedchat < tempted to use a rude word here!>First pieceof advice i was given from a headteacher "dont smile till xmas"....
Reteach10 20:38 RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can really support teachers who are
struggling though - keep them upbeat and offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:38 @deerwood #ukedchat Even now relationships between colleagues is
frowned upon and is still a sacking offence in some church schools
john_at_muuua 20:38 @janwebb21 teacher training is continuous. Not just PGCE year. surely
everyone therefore has the right to say 'no' and leave. #ukedchatCrosbiei 20:38
@Tree_Of And did u manage it. I never have been able to get passed the
1st week. Love working with kids! #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:38 @reallara there is a movement to go on 'learning journeys' between
schools. not sure if that is up and running in our lea yer #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:38staffrooms can really support teachers who are struggling though - keep
them upbeat and offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:39 @bevevans22: @ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice Ours was like the grave!
pros & cons for each i suppose! the tas use it as an office now #ukedchat
cleverfiend 20:39 Are there any careers that compliment teaching - perhaps where we could
see two way movement to aid recruitment & relieve pressure #ukedchat
jimbo9848 20:39#ukedchat Hard Question? Why aren't yr lessons for the term all on the
VLE and yr wiki on Jan 1st? Then you manage the learning.
john_at_muuua 20:39@deerwood I think they leave because they cannot balance life beyond
school with life in school. #ukedchat work/life balance
janwebb21 20:39
RT @bevevans22: RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can support teachers
who are struggling though - keep them upbeat & offer help, ideas etc
#ukedchat Are 18yr olds not as good at career decisions as 22yr olds?
bevevans22 20:39 RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can support teachers who are struggling
though - keep them upbeat & offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
21/34
jowinchester 20:39 #ukedchat many teachers have a break do something else & return with
more experience - it's a good thing & not a new idea :Baudelaire
scholasticuk 20:39RT @deerwood: So could renegotiating terms and conditions of service
help retain teachers? #ukedchat
jodieworld 20:39 #ukedchat Sir Tim Brighouse Keynote speech at LGFL conference 2009 -never stay in same role more than 5 years. Some red faces in THAT room!
janwebb21 20:39 @john_at_muuua absolutely agree about ongoing cpd - but if we don't
want to lose highly skillful professionals we need to ensure.. #ukedchat
MoodleMcKean 20:39
Top Three Must Reads For Graduate Students Virtual School
Meanderings http://bit.ly/ibMCno #pgce #ntchat #edtech #elearning
#ukedchat
bevevans22 20:40 @McDroll @ianaddison In a big school like mine there are up to 20/30 in
there. People tend to sit in little groups anyway #ukedchatsellyeve 20:40
factors affecting teachers' decisions to leave teaching http://bit.ly/g0NIHc
#ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:40 but are you 'normal' ;-) @TheHeadsOffice #UKEdChat
mikemcsharry 20:40@TheHeadsOffice should teachers 'second' elsewhere? #ukedchat
RealLara 20:40@Reteach10 We've had 'learning walks' but out of school hours so not as
useful #ukedchat
philallman1 20:40RT @TheHeadsOffice: Would schools welcome secondments? Is it
'manageable'? #ukedchat< yes if it was universal
scholasticuk 20:40RT @TheHeadsOffice: Would schools welcome secondments? Is it
'manageable'? #ukedchat
asober 20:40 @colport that might be a good, but it needs to be linked to Learning and
Teaching!?! Could it be on something not related to Ed? #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:40 RT @alxr1: #ukedchat Do some survive because they work in schools that
suit their own education/social background? @colport
Ideas_Factory 20:40 @mr_chadwick #ukedchat There's the rub-if a statutory thing teachers
would have to do it-most dont like change and happy to stay & stagnate
Creativeedu 20:40 @Ideas_Factory @deerwood good job it doesn't apply at our office, we're
all married to each other! (I married in to be fair...) #UKEdChat
TheHeadsOffice 20:40Would schools welcome secondments? Is it 'manageable'? #ukedchat
GaryAveryICT 20:40I am still where I started as a GTP 8 Years ago (minus the year out)
#ukedchat
deerwood 20:40 @mikemcsharry yes, I agree like a closed loop #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:41 @reallara should be in school time to give msg of whole school
development not just those who want to in their own time! #ukedchatCrosbiei 20:41 @Tree_Of I completely agree! #ukedchat
Page 21 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
22/34
john_at_muuua 20:41 @janwebb21 but at the same time everyone, no matter how highly skilled,
has a right to leave. Forcing people to stay is worse #ukedchat
GaryAveryICT 20:41@mikemcsharry I bet we will have to if outstanding schools take over
struggling ones. #ukedchat
Tree_Of 20:41@Crosbiei i refused to take the advice on board!! Its the worst advice i've
ever heard #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 20:41If staffrooms can support or deter it must be down to school ethos /
environment #ukedchat
philallman1 20:41@reallara learning walks OUTSDIE SCHOOL HOURS - oxymoron surely?
#ukedchat
deerwood 20:41@john_at_muuua excellent point! #ukedchat work/life balance is
important and difficult for many teachers
jimbo9848 20:41RT @GaryAveryICT: I am still where I started as a GTP 8 Years ago (minus
the year out) #ukedchat try Tomorrow's Heads!
janwebb21 20:41
RT @Ideas_Factory: #ukedchat Taking Variety a stage further-How about
making teachers work at least once in an inner-city school before they'vefinished 10 yrs
carolrainbow 20:41CPD - however it comes - with or without secondment is crucial though -
lack of only leads to frustration #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:42 Maybe the problem goes back further, maybe #PGCE screening isn't good
enough and unsuitable candidates are being trained? #UKEdChat
Reteach10 20:42RT @TheHeadsOffice: If staffrooms can support or deter it must be down
to school ethos / environment #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
23/34
janwebb21 20:42
RT @Reteach10: @ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice good man -i am a big fan
of 1 central staffroom. you share so many more ideas not just subject
based! #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:42RT @philallman1: @reallara learning walks OUTSDIE SCHOOL HOURS -
oxymoron surely? #ukedchat
philallman1 20:43 RT @carolrainbow: & skool ethos etc is mostly dn 2 the head & SMT - somuch is on the shuolders of the leaders #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
24/34
janwebb21 20:44RT @colport: @Joga5 Would that lose the personal approach that primary
schools can offer? #ukedchat
deerwood 20:44 RT @CliveBuckley: The day you start thinking you are a really good teacher
you start being a poor one #ukedchat < or time to prove it!
TheHeadsOffice 20:44 RT @janwebb21: RT @CliveBuckley: The day you start thinking you are areally good teacher you start being a poor one #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:44 @Tree_Of but adults know the punchline. :-) #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:44 @Ideas_Factory secondment 0 whatever type - gives much deeper insight!
have found that from visiting diff schools! #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:45 RT @philallman1: RT @deerwood: Perhaps teachers leave the profession
because they discover there is life beyond school #ukedchat< there is?! :)
Crosbiei 20:45
RT @carolrainbow: @jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they
seem to be schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personaltraining #ukedchat
stevebunce 20:45 RT @JamiePortman: New Blog Post:
jimbo9848 20:45#ukedchat Why worry? Free schools can emply anyone with zero training.
philallman1 20:45RT @bevevans22: We tend 2 have classes but also teachers wrkn 2 their
strengths #ukedchat< my plan for next year!
carolrainbow 20:45
@jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they seem to be
schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personal training
#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:45@deerwood #ukedchat but it's often having a life beyond school that
makes us a better teacher!!!
mooshtang 20:45#ukedchat Plus I want to go and do my Ed Psych doctorate at some point
and couldn't have done that with BEd.
siavogel 20:45 RT @deerwood Why do teachers leave the profession, perhaps because
they're no longer treated like profs http://bit.ly/i1huom #ukedchat #yam
Creativeedu 20:45 RT @carolrainbow: NHS has stautory annual training in handling, finance,
reporting and maintaining skills. Time that teachers did? #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:45
@Tree_Of #ukedchat I may smile 11 times but I laugh 374 times (especially
at that made up stat)
thedippyhippy 20:46I blogged about why I love teaching only this week! http://bit.ly/6j8ml3
#ukedchat
ToddAHoffman 20:46 RT @Creativeedu: RT @colport: Join @janwebb21 for #ukedchat "Why do
so many new teachers leave within 5 years and how we can reduce drain?"
jowinchester 20:46
RT @Creativeedu: Maybe the problem goes back further, maybe #PGCE
screening isn't good enough and unsuitable candidates are being trained?
#UKEdChat
jimbo9848 20:46@carolrainbow #ukedchat NHS also has supervision which makes
performance management look so ill-conceived!!
TheHeadsOffice 20:46Do colleges lose money if students leave before the end of the course?
They seem reluctant to fail unsuitable types. #ukedchat
Page 24 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
25/34
janwebb21 20:46 @asober me too! #ukedchat
RealLara 20:46 @philallman1 Teachers can learn too!! Just a flavour of how things
worked, chance to discuss, learning environment. Whole cluster #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:46
RT @Smichael920: Important 4 teachers 2 get out of the classroom &c
what others r doing in theirs. We can make more of this 2 support new
staff#ukedchat
janwebb21 20:46
RT @Smichael920: Important 4 teachers 2 get out of the classroom &c
what others r doing in theirs. We can make more of this 2 support new
staff#ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:46RT @Tree_Of: A nursery child smiles on average 374 times per day. An
adult.... 11 #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
26/34
esoldaveglasgow 20:48 @philallman1 #ukedchat Shift is appropriate in line with good pedagogy.
Teaching to think/live effectively, not facts and formulae
Creativeedu 20:48 @GaryAveryICT ha! I'll work on that... #UKEdChat
Crosbiei 20:48@CreativeEdu #ukedchat Of course, becos why will a great teacher
necessarily be a good head? Not the same skills needed!
janwebb21 20:48 @CreativeEdu @TheHeadsOffice what IS normal? #UKEdChat
Ideas_Factory 20:48
#ukedchat Teachers leave because of the constant changing of ethos
everytime a new government comes in.NOT OUR FAULT! [My Dummy's
out now]
amweston 20:48 @carolrainbow they can sometimes have the opposite effect - can be
isolating depending on situation/politics of school #ukedchat
john_at_muuua 20:48 PGCE is just the start of life-long CPD.#ukedchat
misshbond 20:48 RT @philallman1: @reallara if we ever lose the ability to learn then we
really have lost the plot and should go! #ukedchat
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
27/34
john_at_muuua 20:50RT @Crosbiei: @reallara #ukedchat Change it an essential part of the job.
Knowledge and skills needed are constantly changing
jimbo9848 20:50RT @reallara: @Ideas_Factory Frightening number of teachers dislike/fear
change. Yes, worrying #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:50@reallara #ukedchat Change it an essential part of the job. Knowledge and
skills needed are constantly changing
philallman1 20:50 RT @esoldaveglasgow: #ukedchat Shift is appropriate in line with good
pedagogy. Teaching to think/live effectively, not facts and formulae
bevevans22 20:50 @carolrainbow @philallman1 specialists work in PE, Welsh, Art, Music &
Forest Schools - they still teach a range of other subjects #ukedchat
carolrainbow 20:50@philallman1 absolutely true - 1 day's training with no follow-up, feedback
etc not the ideal though often the case #ukedchat
deerwood 20:51RT @jimbo9848: RT @Crosbiei: @reallara #ukedchat Change is progress >>> Agreed! #ukedchat
Creativeedu 20:55 RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Would schools be more conducive to learning ifhead teacher were managers rather than promoted teachers? I agree
Reteach10 20:55 @headteacher01 other advantage: provides change of scene where you
are not talking about specific students but specific cpd needs #ukedchat
janwebb21 20:55
RT @jowinchester: #ukedchat srcondments should not be in schools we
rusk an overly insular & naval-gazing outlook if we've never seen anything
outside school
philallman1 20:55 RT @mr_chadwick: Will recession attract more into the profession? Will
they all be here in 5yrs? #ukedchat < yes to 1st No to 2nd
john_at_muuua 20:55thanks for a great evening playing devil's advocate. best wishes to you all.
#ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:55@john_at_muuua #ukedchat No. Some were however kicked out when
they couldnt actually teach!
ColinGoffin 20:55I'm still not sure ITT prepares well enough for the interpersonal and
relationship skills that are key to teaching today #ukedchat
bevevans22 20:55 RT @GaryH2UK: @deerwood #ukedchat 1 of my old heads used to say 'if
you stand still long enough everyone else will catch you up' -love that
mr_chadwick 20:55
Will recession attract more into the profession? Will they all be here in
5yrs? #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:55 #ukedchat Change is only good if the change is for the right reasons-Not
good if changing the whole curric cos it wasn't a tory idea
Creativeedu 20:55Is it a problem to be taught until 21, then instantly go into teaching - may
leave as just fed up of the classroom? #UKEdChat
Mallrat_uk 20:55@creativeedu #ukedchat also NQT year is too easy to pass! fellow teacher
failed 2 out of 3 obs in final term and still passed!
jimbo9848 20:55 RT @GaryH2UK: @deerwood #ukedchat one of my old heads used to say
'if you stand still long enough everyone else will catch you up' Dreadful!
jimbo9848 20:56ukedchat teachers are better qualified now than ever. Wait until the
squaddies with PTS disorder arrive in staffrooms!!
Page 29 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
30/34
Ideas_Factory 20:56 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Good q-many of the academies have managers from
outside edu-some work others fail. Not conclusive
Creativeedu 20:56Re Heads discussion. I for one would LOVE to be a head but would HATE to
be a teacher... #UKEdChat
Crosbiei 20:56@philallman1 #ukedchat But isnt a head's job to manage the staff and
utilise their expertise in educating?
Mallrat_uk 20:56@Crosbiei @creativeedu #ukedchat yep several quit ours, but a few
passed even though not great teachers!
john_at_muuua 20:56@Crosbiei damn. there goes my theory of retention. :-( #ukedchat
Reteach10 20:56
RT @Ideas_Factory: #ukedchat Change is only good if the change is for the
right reasons-Not good if changing the whole curric cos it wasn't a tory
idea
janwebb21 20:56 @CliveBuckley a very cynical reply, Clive!!!!! #ukedchat
philallman1 20:56RT @john_at_muuua: thanks for a great evening playing devil's advocate.
best wishes to you all. #ukedchat< surely not ;)
janwebb21 20:57
RT @carolrainbow: @jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they
seem to be schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personal
training #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:57RT @Mallrat_uk: @Crosbiei @creativeedu #ukedchat yep several quit
ours, but a few passed even though not great teachers!
Crosbiei 20:57@Ideas_Factory #ukedchat But is that down to the person or their
background?
Ideas_Factory 20:57RT @mr_chadwick: Will recession attract more into the profession? Will
they all be here in 5yrs? #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 20:57 RT @CreativeEdu: I for one would LOVE to be a head but would HATE to
be a teacher... #UKEdChat < Would that make you a good Head?
RealLara 20:57 RT @JaneWoods3: #ukedchat Maybe teachers should all spend a year
working in ITT every 5 years or so.
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
31/34
headteacher01 20:58 @CreativeEdu @Crosbiei disagree, heads need to understand how children
learn in order to ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat
jimbo9848 20:58#ukedchat 80%of HTs love the job, 80% of SLTs don't want it. Funny
messages there.
janwebb21 20:58@carolrainbow teachers need personalised learning just like the children
do! #ukedchat
Crosbiei 20:59 #ukedchat Cant heads just be people who maximise teachers' potential to
develop their pupils? Cant this be done just by talking to teachers?
Ideas_Factory 20:59
RT @Smichael920: @Ideas_Factory brings us back 2 original question.
Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the exodus! 4got
#ukedchat!
jimbo9848 20:59 #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in excellent cpd
carolrainbow 20:59@janwebb21 Absolutely - with support and followup to move them
forward #ukedchat
Ideas_Factory 20:59 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Prob a bit of both-an academic did a study of
successful HT-to see if common denominators-none were found!
philallman1 20:59 RT @reallara: @mikemcsharry @philallman1 I do a pretty mean lesson on
composing using just a piece of A4 scrap paper! #ukedchat< can't wait!
philallman1 20:59 RT @headteacher01: disagree, heads need to understand how children
learn in order to ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat < yep!
Creativeedu 21:00@mr_chadwick I manage and lead well, I am good with children, I just
wouldn't like to teach. I think I'd be a good head #UKEdChat
Ideas_Factory 21:00 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Yep that's the Coaching model
jimbo9848 21:00RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Heads are not a separate race, some are better
than others at talk
carolrainbow 21:00 @Ideas_Factory @Smichael920 I am sure it does not help!!
philallman1 21:00@Crosbiei no - I go to the butchers each week but I don't suggest how he
should cut my meat for me! #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 21:00 RT @philallman1: RT @headteacher01: HTs need 2 understand how chn
learn 2 ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat >Is that teaching?
ukedchat 21:00 Many thanks to @janwebb21 for hosting this #ukedchat session.#ukedchat returns after Christmas break on 6th January. Happy Christmas
janwebb21 21:00RT @jimbo9848: #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in
excellent cpd
bevevans22 21:00RT @jimbo9848: #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in
excellent cpd
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
32/34
TheHeadsOffice 21:01 RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Cant HT be ppl who max teachers' potential to
develop their pupils? Cant this be done by talking to teachers?>YES!
Crosbiei 21:01@philallman1 #ukedchat But does he ask u how u would like your meat
cut? Its all about collaboration.
misshbond 21:01Wow - that was the fastest hour of my life! So many good points raised.
Thanks all :0) #ukedchat
alxr1 21:01Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the exodus! #ukedchat!
>hard to walk on shifting sand
Arakwai 21:01 #ukedchat In my LEA there have been regular redundancies over the last 5
years :-( Newish teachers are vulnerable and may find other careers
janwebb21 21:01 #ukedchat hard to keep up with everyone!
philallman1 21:01 RT @TheHeadsOffice: HTs need 2 understand how chn learn 2 ensure that
this is what is happening #ukedchat >Is that teaching?< no its leading
mdpkeenan 21:01 #ukedchat impending changes to curriculum mean nothing - doing whatyou can to engage children, this changes every day!
RealLara 21:01More formal mentoring/buddy system across schools throughout careers
as wanted/needed might help. Virtually?#ukedchat
janwebb21 21:01 I can't believe it's 9pm already!!! thanks to everyone for a most interesting
#ukedchat this week! so many interesting points it's been ...
briankotts 21:01@korlingsord Half of boys, age five, 'struggling in basics'
http://bbc.in/hfj1vd /via @bbcnews #edchat #ukedchat
Crosbiei 21:01 #ukedchat Is it just me, or does the hour from 8-9 go very quickly?
Crosbiei 21:02@jimbo9848 #ukedchat Isnt the ability to communicate and work with
teachers necessary to be a head?
Ideas_Factory 21:02Thankyou @janwebb21 and one and all for a most brilliant #ukedchat I
swear they're getting better...
jimbo9848 21:02 #ukedchat thanks all and a happy christmas
sellyeve 21:02 many thanks & especially to @janwebb21. #ukedchat
Creativeedu 21:02 @janwebb21 thanks for a great #UKEdchat. Fantastic as ever!
carolrainbow 21:02 Happy Christmas everyone - thanks for all 2010 #ukedchats Thanks to
@janwebb21 for hosting this session - see you 6th Jan :-) #ukedchat
TheHeadsOffice 21:03
@janwebb21 Many thanks. Apologies for being late & only dipping in!
#ukedchat
philallman1 21:03 RT @Joga5: Hey I just seen it is me doing the first #ukedchat of 2011. What
do you want to talk about then?< Hogmanay or Hootenay? :)
Ideas_Factory 21:03RT @alxr1: "Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the
exodus!" #ukedchat! >hard to walk on shifting sand
janwebb21 21:03 #ukedchat you're all very welcome!! have a fantastic Christmas everyone
and look forward to joining @Joga5 at the first new year #ukedchat!
Creativeedu 21:03 @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseI'malosertoo #UKEdChat
JfB57 21:03RT @CreativeEdu: @mr_chadwick I manage/lead well, Im good withchildren, wouldn't like 2 teach. Think I'd be a good head #UKEdChat>Thats
me!
Page 32 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
33/34
Ideas_Factory 21:03RT @alxr1: "Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the
exodus!" #ukedchat! >hard to walk on shifting sand
Ideas_Factory 21:03RT @alxr1: "Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the
exodus!" #ukedchat! >hard to walk on shifting sand
deerwood 21:03@McDroll schools, government, LAs, Daily Mail care about policies ... who
cares about children? #ukedchat
philallman1 21:03 #ukedchat thanks all - as ever - really great!
mdpkeenan 21:04#ukedchat teacher training lessons 1,2 and 3 ( to misquote clint Eastwood) -
improvise, adapt, overcome.
TheHeadsOffice 21:04 RT @Crosbiei: @jimbo9848 #ukedchat Isnt the ability to communicate and
work with teachers necessary to be a head? >No its essential!
Tree_Of 21:04 @LiamConway there is more than one flaw! #ukedchat
Crosbiei 21:04RT @CreativeEdu: @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseImalosertoo
#UKEdChat
mooshtang 21:04#ukedchat Actually I think it's ridic to say only ppl trained in 'education'
should teach. Think of the value of musicians, artists,
Reteach10 21:05 #ukedchat thanks to everyone for a really good discussion - first and
definitely not the last time. mind stewing with ideas. merry xmas
mr_chadwick 21:05@CreativeEdu I'm sure YOU would. Think opening up Headship in that way
could be slippery slope. #ukedchat
mooshtang 21:05 #ukedchat scientists, mathematicians, film makers, linguists, psychologists,
mathematicians, english grads etc could bring to the table
TheHeadsOffice 21:05 RT @CreativeEdu: @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseI'malosertoo
#UKEdChat >I'm not busy next Thurs either! ;)
Crosbiei 21:05@TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat Thanks. That was the word I was looking for!
mooshtang 21:06 A PGCE frm a good institution IS enough training to teach. You learn more
on the job once you are there after any training course #ukedchat
mr_chadwick 21:06Best #ukedchat yet. (Although I've only done a few) Really great
discussion. Thanks @janwebb21 et al
janwebb21 21:06@Reteach10 @misshbond #ukedchat and many thanks to all those new to
#ukedchat for joining us!
CHAR0ULA 21:07forgot how enjoyable #ukedchat is.I havent attended for ages.Thank youall.Thank you @janwebb21
janwebb21 21:07 RT @Ideas_Factory: @mikemcsharry unofficial official non-ukchat next
Thursday then (isn't that just like 'normal' twitter..) #ukedchat
janwebb21 21:07@mr_chadwick I agree - def one of the best #ukedchat! and there was me
thinking everyone would be out at Christmas parties!!!
janwebb21 21:08@CHAR0ULA I forgot how fast it goes when moderating!!!! #ukedchat
philallman1 21:08 @janwebb21 I agree - def one of the best #ukedchat! and there was methinking everyone would be out at Christmas parties!!!< #sadpeople
Page 33 of 34
-
8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010
34/34
janwebb21 21:09@NickiA10 LOL! considering we had ours last night, I think I did well to stay
awake for #ukedchat!!!!
JaneWoods3 21:10@janwebb21 Thanks Jan...really interesting debate tonight! #ukedchat
ZoeAndrewsAST 21:11 @mooshtang #ukedchat Training is def not enough, know many people
who trained in a top uk uni last 5 yrs and not made it past 2 years in sch
ukedchat 21:11@Ideas_Factory If you want to host a 'Christmas Special', then go for it :-)
deerwood 21:12RT @deerwood: @janwebb21 well done Jan, great #ukedchat tonight ..
over far too soon darn Mac forgot where #key was
Creativeedu 21:12 Top ten blog posts (and the rest..) http://ow.ly/3qsVA