we want the airwaves - van binfa

7/27/2019 We Want the Airwaves - Van Binfa

1/19

An Interview with Van Binfa

Van: The affluent white cis gay men, were trying to push out the queer youth of color that had startedcoming into Lakeview and accessing the resources that the Center on Halsted, or Howard Brown orBroadway Youth Center - all of these big, government-funded resources they were starting to comeand access it. And it really upset a lot of people. They were like, Our neighborhood's going to hell.

Let's take back Boystown.

Nia: Wow. I assumed, when you said, Take back Boystown, that you meantfrom the rich white gaycis men.

Van: Oh, fuck no! It's expensive to live in Boystown. Like, you can have million-dollar apartments inBoystown. So, yeah, they were trying to take back their neighborhood, and it started a lot ofcommunity discussions about

Nia: Racism? [laughter]

Van: Yeah! About racism, and oppression within queer communities. I mean, you can totally be aminority and still oppress another minority.

Nia: Amen.

[laughter]

[musical interlude]

Nia: Welcome to We Want the Airwaves. My name is Nia King. You may have noticed I have droppeddown to a twice a month schedule rather than a once a week schedule of putting out the podcast inorder to retain my sanity while I try to figure out how to make the podcast more financially sustainable.Donations are always welcome and appreciated. You can donate at artactivistnia.com if you click thepodcast button, or at niapod.tumblr.com, there is a donate button where you can donate through PayPalthere as well.

This week on the podcast I was very excited to talk to Van Binfa, who is a cartoonist from Chicago aswell as a co-founder of the Soy Quien Soy Trans Empowerment Collective. I first learned about Vanbecause he was part of the Trans 100. I came across his name when I was scrolling through the list andwas really excited to talk to another queer cartoonist of color. We became Facebook friends - hes reallyhilarious on Facebook and then when I was in Chicago for The Lady Drawers exhibition, we had theopportunity to meet up, and he was everything I had hoped he would be and so much more. So I hopeyou enjoy listening to our conversation. We talk about gentrification, we talk about fan fiction, we talkabout gay racism, we talk about cancer, and homelessness, and working in a bookstore. He has a lot ofinteresting stories and a lot of interesting things to say, so without further ado, heres Van.

[musical interlude]

Van: So, I had worked at a Latino LGBT nonprofit, and what I was realizing was, there wasn't a lot ofeither space, or organizations, or purposeful advocacy on the behalf of trans Latinos, so I really wantedto change that. I wanted to either provide a space, or some kind of support or network system for us togo to.


2/19

I was constantly this was about three, two years ago I was constantly searching for somebody likemyself. I would go to trans groups, and they would be predominantly white. And then I would go toqueer spaces and I would find other Latinos, but they were all cis. So, it was really hard for me to findthat in-between ground.

So my co-founder, Yvonne, and I decided that we were going to fix that, and at least do a littlesomething for the community, so we've based ourselves in Pilsen, which was really really importantbecause a lot of the trans resources and support is in the North Side, which is more accessible to whitegay men, and we just wanted to branch out from there.

So we started at Efebina's Cafe, and we started doing just, once a month, you know, just gatheringtogether, having coffee, talking about, you know, doing things, so through SQS, we've done a couple ofworkshop-related activities. We've worked with Howard Brown, Center on Halsted, I mean, we'veworked with pretty much anybody in the city that's involved with LGBT activism. We did Fiesta delSol for two years, and, yeah.

Nia: Can you explain what that is?

Van: Yeah. Fiesta del Sol is the largest Midwest Latino festival, which happens in Pilsen. I think thestats are like 1.1 million Latinos go to the festival all weekend.

Nia: Wow.

Van: Yeah, it's a lot of people. It's insanely fun. There is just so much food, it's wonderful. [laughter]It's just really great. So we've done that, we've helped at the booth. We weren't able to do it this year butthe past two years has been really interesting. So yeah we've worked with pretty much all the majorLGBT organizations and a lot of the more grassroots organizations in the city.

It's been wonderful; we've done anything from Trans 101, to self-defense workshops. We've been innewspapers, and things like that. Soy Quien Soy it is on hold for now, as I'm going through kind ofmore personal medical issues this whole year. I just haven't been able to get down to Pilsen, so we're onhold. I think we're going to be shifting into more of an online resource so that's where that's headedtowards, but it's pretty much my baby. It's been fun.

Nia: For those of us who might not be familiar with Chicago geography, could you talk a little bit aboutwhat Pilsen, and what it's like demographically and why it felt important to you that that's where yourgroup met?

Van: [laughter] Oh gosh! Sure. Pilsen is about, I want to say about, 10 minutes south of the Loop, solike downtown Chicago, you drive 10 minutes down, and there's Pilsen. It's a pretty big neighborhood.It's a pretty well-established neighborhood, and it's predominantly Latino right now. In Pilsen there'sthe National Museum of Mexican Art, which is free, so you can drop in at any time.

Nia: That's awesome.

Van: I know! They have this fabulous Day of the Dead exhibit. It's just beautiful. It is so well-run andthe museum hosts Queer Prom.


3/19

Nia: That's really awesome.

Van: I know! So I think Pilsen is pretty much incredibly queer-friendly, and I think a lot of people don'tknow that because they think, Oh my gosh, it's primarily Latinos, and they're Catholic, and superconservative! but no, there's a thriving queer community in Pilsen, which is just wonderful to be partof.

I didn't want to centralize ourselves where everybody else was, already. Any queer person of color thatlived more towards the South Side would always have to travel north, so I didn't want to continue thattrend. I just wanted to set ourselves apart, and start somewhere new.

Nia: Yeah. So I went to a queer event last night in Chicago, and I was really interested to see thesimilarities and differences between queer events that I've been to in the Bay. In my experience, or myopinion, I feel like the Bay Area queer community is really segregated perhaps even moreso bygender than by race. Like you kind of have the queer cis women hanging out together and the transmale community there's some overlap because people are dating each other and overlapping friendcircles or whatever.

But then the gay male communities - cis male communities - feels totally separate. And I think the transwomen community I don't know if they have a separate community, or if they're just forced into themargins of the communities that already exist.

Van: Right.

Nia: But that's not something I felt like I saw it feels different here, to me. But I've only been here aweek, so I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are.

Van: Yeah, I feel like there is that segregation to an extent because there's definitely you understandthat Lakeview/Boystown is white cis gay male territory.

Nia: Makes them sound like a gang. [laughter]

Van: Great. Yeah, the most fabulous gang ever to kick out brown queers of color, because that's whathappens. I don't know. There's just so much shit that goes on in Boystown; it's so problematic. Therewas this whole Take back Boystown I don't want to say it was like a scandal but everybody wastalking about it because the affluent white cis gay men, part of that gang, were trying to push out thequeer youth of color. Chicago is one of the most segregated, racially segregated, cities in the entirecountry. You have a clear divide between neighborhoods. You have a clear divide between North Sidersand South Siders. But you have the same thing in the queer community. You know that Lakeview hasthe most resources, so if you want hormones, you got to go to Lakeview. That's starting to change, butstill the most just like the TransLife Center, which is a homeless shelter geared for transwomen ofcolor

Nia: Oh wow.

Van: Right. That just opened up, butstillit's in the North Side. So that is an issue I feel like moreorganizations are tackling, but there's definitely if you're a transman, and you only want to besurrounded by transmen, it's definitely possible. I mean, it's justso easy.


4/19

Nia: In the North Side, you mean?

Van: Yeah, in the North Side. But I feel like if you go to Pilsen or Humboldt Park, or places likeCicero, which are all kind of satellites of the Loop, you can definitely find a better mix of people whereyou don't feel like you look like everybody else in the room. So it just depends. I feel like when you'rein queer people of color communities, you find a much better mix of identities.

Nia: Yeah. Can we talk about gentrification for a little bit?

Van: Oh my God, yes! That's a huge issue, too!

Nia: [laughter]

Van: Pilsen is undergoing that, right now.

Nia: I don't have something super prolific to say about this but I'm really interested in the relationshipbetween gays and gentrification because I feel like gay people and queer people are often the first waveof gentrification, and then the people who actually have money come after.

[laughter]

Nia: It's often artists and gay people, and I don't know why that is, but I think it's really fascinating. Doyou have any thoughts or theories on why gays are often at the forefront of gentrification? Is that atrend that you've noticed?

Van: It is a trend that I've noticed, because it's kind of like the cool and hip to live in a neighborhoodthat nobody wants to live in and you have super cheap rent. I've noticed gay men talking about this:Oh yeah, I live in Humboldt Park, or Logan Square, and it's super cheap, but my apartment is great!and, you know, stuff like that. My mom okay, my mom loves Bravo TV. I try not to hold it against herbut, okay, so she watches this thing called, Million Dollar Listings or something.

Nia: Okay.

Van: It's just mostly like there's this one gay guy, gay white guy, who's like, a millionaire, and he sellsapartments in Manhattan. And he makes millions of dollars in commission off of what he does. Butwhen he's finding places to live, he likes to look for up and coming neighborhoods, which to memeans

Nia: Brown?

Van: Right, exactly! So, How can I move into this neighborhood and make it fashionable? And Ican't really provide an explanation why, but it's definitely a trend that I see. So I see like, this guy andhis mindset here in Chicago, into ourneighborhoods and it's just, it's just... frustrating, to say the least.

Nia: Yeah. It's interesting that you say your mom likes Bravo, because it's sounds like she's not a bigfan of the gays...? Is that fair to say?

Van: [laughter] My gosh, my mom is my mom... so yeah, my mom is a complicated lady.


5/19

[laughter]

Van: I'm very happy and grateful for the support she provides me now, but it's definitely been a uphillbattle. I came out as a lesbian when I was 14, 15 years old. So, things did not go well. It was notaccepted, it was, you know, How dare you do this to our family? How will you everfind a man tomarry you? How? I had a bunch of family members tell me, You just need to sleep with a man.

Nia: [laughter] Because that always fixes everything.

Van: Well, it does for me now!

[laughter]

Van: But back then! Back then, it was like, How could you tell me this? Come on! Ugh, I don'tknow, it's so complicated to say it. But it's like there's so many overlapping things that kind of explainhow I was brought up and it really explained my parents.

My parents were super into what's the word I'm looking for oh my gosh. My parents wanted to beAmerican what is the term?

Nia: Assimilationist?

Van: There we go! Yes, my parents were, at least they are, they consider themselvesAmericans. Sothey really pushed for that. They wanted to live in the suburbs. When my mother they lived in the cityuntil I was seven years old, and my mom told me they started to see the neighborhood go downhill. Shesaid, When the Italians moved, that's when I knew we had to move. So that's been my parents' kindof, you know

Nia: And your mom is Chilean?

Van: Yeah. Both my parents are Chilean, but they've both been citizens for quite a while. So anyway,my mom is a mix between this weird American culture, and then Chilean culture, so she accepts gaypeople to an extent, but when it's her own family and I think a lot of people have this issue

Nia: Mhm.

Van: When it's your own family, it's different.

Nia: Yeah.

Van: But I definitely see a hardcore conservative, Chilean upbringing in her views on queer people ingeneral. So yeah, she's very accepting now, and she calls me her son, but I still at home, my pronounshave not changed in Spanish. I'm la Van, I'm not el Van. I'm he and him inEnglish, butdefinitely not in Spanish. And a lot of my extended family still doesn't know, so I'm still Vanessa orshe pronouns even though I have scruff.

Nia: So your family calls you, The Van?

Van: Well, la is feminine.


6/19

Nia: Right.

Van: Right, so I'm...

Nia: But for the... right?

Van: Okay, when like

Nia: Do I just not understand Spanish, is that the problem? [laughter]

Van: It's hard to explain.

Nia: Okay.

Van: So when my mom is talking to somebody about me, she will like when we're playing with ourdogs, she'll throw a toy, and instead of saying, Throw it to Van! and then in Spanish when you say tosomeone you have to have the pronoun in front of it.

Nia: Mhm. Okay.

Van: Instead of, in English, you just say, Thrown it to Van and there's no gender associated with that,in Spanish it's, Tiralo, a la Van!

Nia: Okay.

Van: Okay? You don't always have to have the gender in front of it, but most often my mom will say,la Van! So it's still feminine in front of my name.

Nia: This is very tangentially related, but it's sort of reminds me of this one time I was walking downthe street, and these little kids shouted after me. I think it was like, Hey, hey miss! Hey miss, are you aboy or a girl? And it's like, Well didn't you just kind of answer that question? [laughter]

Van: Exactly, right? I love when that happens at the place I work, now, because I'll just have so muchfun with it, you know? At the beginning of my transition, I was terrified because I had no idea! Icouldn't answer the kid! I was like, I don't know if I'm a boy or a girl! I really don't! Can't you helpme?

[laughter]

Van: But now, like

Nia: All of a sudden the kid has a lot more responsibility than they bargained for! [laughter]

Van: Right, exactly. [laughter] But now, I used to paint my nails at work, and I stopped because I just, Igot so tired of my nails getting destroyed and being harassed about it.

Nia: By customers, or by co-workers?


7/19


8/19

stuff?

Van: Yes. I've encountered that. I did undergo a couple periods of homelessness. I do feel pressure tostay away from those periods, because I feel like, Man, I really don't want to depress people. or Ireally don't want people to feel sorry for me, because that's totally not how I view it. I view it assomething that I went through, just like any other experience, and it's something that's made me more

resilient in the end. I tell people sometimes that I am ready for anything and anytime. I'm a veryresourceful person, so I think that really challenged my adaptability, but I definitely feel that pressure.

Nia: Sorry, homelessness did, or something else?

Van: Homelessness.

Nia: Okay.

Van: I mean, you have to adapt. I never really knew for a long period of time where I'm going to staynext, and how am I going to pay for this, and how am I going to fill out forms for that when I'mtechnically not living at that place?

Nia: Yeah. And you were working more than full-time the entire time that you were without housing.

Van: Yeah.

Nia: Which I thought was a really interesting part of your story because we like to think that if youwork full-time

Van: [laughter]

Nia: you can afford to live somewhere, but clearly that's not always the case.

Van: God, no. No. I was fortunate that my parents let me keep the car, so I was able to get to and fromwherever I was staying to work, but no, I could never I think I was making like $9.50 an hour, which

Nia: Working sixty hours a week?

Van: Back then... no okay, the first time, I was working at least thirty. My hours were never steady, so Iwas working thirty to thirty-five hours a week, depending. Some weeks were awful, and I would beworking eighteen hours. So, because there's all these clauses that, Oh, now you're full-time and haveto have this certain amount of hours unless, you know, we have to cut back, and then we can't cut yourhours more than four weeks at a time. Well, for four of those weeks I'm still working on eighteenhours of pay.

Nia: Yeah.

Van: So anyway, I was working, and I think a typical apartment in Schaumburg, which is the suburbthat I live in, is about $800-$1,000?

Nia: Wow. Is it cheaper to live in the city? Or was that just not an option because of work?


9/19

Van: I could not live in the city. It was not an option 'cause I couldn't afford the gas. And I also didn'tknow that many people in the city the first time that I had homelessness happen to me, so I stayed in asmany friends' houses as I could who lived in the suburbs near work, and tried to save money up but Ialso had bills to pay, just you know, and I had to feed myself, and I was just very fortunate that I hadfriends who were able to host me.

Nia: I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but if you're not paying rent and not paying utilities, whatbills are you paying?

Van: I had credit card debt.

Nia: Mm.

Van: Yeah. I was in a, let's say, a very difficult relationship, where I was flying out my ex-girlfriendfrom Arizona three times a year, which got expensive fast.

Nia: While you were homeless?

Van: No, before.

Nia: Okay.

Van: Oh, no.

Nia: Because I was about to say, that's pretty impressive. [laughter] On $9.50 an hour.

Van:No, no, no. A lot of that I paid on my credit card, because I thought that's what dedication to yourrelationship meant was paying for everything.

Nia: Mm.

Van: Yeah, by the time we broke up, I was thousands of dollars in debt and she'd never paid me back.

Nia: Did you ever ask her for the money?

Van: Oh yeah, I did. I think I saw about three hundred bucks, which I'm still paying off today. So whenI was not paying for all of my credit cards and just trying to stay above water with that, I was payingfor school, I was paying for gas, I was paying for clothes, for food, and by the time there was anythingleft over, it wasn't anything enough to make rent with.

Nia: Mm.

Van: So I would give whoever I was staying with, you know, a couple hundred dollars, but I couldnever afford to live on my I still can't afford to live on my own in the suburbs with what I'm makingnow, which I think is a huge problem. We were just talking about this at work the other day. I havegreat benefits, but I have shit pay. And I don't know how anybody survives on that kind of pay. Unlessyou're really lucky enough to find someplace. Even a studio is about seven hundred bucks in thesuburbs.


10/19

Nia: Yeah. Alright, a friend was telling me yesterday how much cheaper it is to live here than inOakland, and now I'm salivating thinking about moving to Chicago. [laughter] But it sounds like therent in the suburbs are a lot higher.

Van: Oh yeah. No, no, no. Stay away from the suburbs, because then you have to have a car. There's no

there is public transportation, but it's not reliable, and you just never know when it's going to come,or if it'll come on time, or if the buses are running at all.

Nia: Yeah.

Van: So if you can stay in the city and be close to any of the, a bus or train, which is not hard, if youlive in the right neighborhood, you know you can definitely afford the rent, or even better if you have aroommate. That's totally possible. But it all depends on what your situation is.***

Nia: Right. I thought that you had mentioned earlier at one point you were working sixty hours a weekwhile you were homeless. Did I misremember that?

Van: I've been homeless multiple times.

Nia: Okay.

Van: So that has definitely happened where I was homeless and I was working at Walmart andStarbucks simultaneously. And yeah, I was doing

Nia: And also in school?

Van: Was I in school? No, I was not well, half the time, I was, actually. I went back to communitycollege, to start a psychology degree. So yes, at one point I had the two jobs plus school, and I was stillrunning was I running? yeah, I was running Soy Quien Soy, and I was still doing activist work. Soit was a crazy time. [laughter] And then I kind of crashed and I started to have health problems, so I hadto quit Walmart, I pulled back with activist gigs that I was doing, and that was last year. So I finishedup school and I just didn't go back. Yeah, there was that one point in my life, where it was definitely Ithink Christmas Day was my one day off from everything, and I slept twelve hours straight. That wasdefinitely hard.

Nia: Yeah. Do you feel like during that time where you're working so hard that the activist work wassomething that nourished you, or was it something else that drained you? Because activism candefinitely do either. [laughter]

Van: I think at the time I thought it was something that refreshed me, that took me out of that Walmart was soul-sucking.

Nia: [laughter]Surprise!

Van: Right? Surprise, but it's been one of the highest paying retail jobs that I've ever had. So theystarted me off at $9.45, where at other places I'd get started at like, minimum wage, or something.

Nia: What is minimum wage here?


11/19


12/19

And again, I've met so many great people through my first job in nonprofit [work], but it was horrible!I mean, who would run to Walmart? I did, because it was just that awful! I never got paid on time. Mytime and my personal life was never respected. I never felt like I was listened to. I felt like trans issuesreally weren't important.

Nia: And this was at a GLBT organization?

Van: Yeah.

Nia: Or was it lesbian-specific?

Van: It was lesbian specific, but they definitely had interactions with LGBT folks.

Nia: Mhm.

Van: Or, you know, broader organizations. So I was very thankful for what I learned in a positiveaspect, and also I'm still thankful for I can recognize the signs of an organization that I really don'twant to work with. I really pride myself with Soy Quien Soy, or with my freelance public speaking. I'mworking with people who have similar goals. Like, we don't always have to be in agreement toeverything, but I really like to work with people who I click with. That really taught me a lot aboutwhat to look for, about who not to work with, because I think a lot of baby activists have that problem.Where they want to work with everybody! Because everyone's great!

Nia: Do you want to warn baby activists what they should be looking out for? What some of the redflags are?

Van: Jesus. [laughter] Help me, brown Jesus. Let's see.

Nia: [laughter]

Van: Let's see. God.

Nia: You don't have to name any names.

Van: No, no, no. But if they don't have an office, run.

[laughter]

Nia: So if it's out of somebody's living room, or bedroom?

Van: Right. Or if their files are in someone's basement. That's a for sure sign that they don't have theirshit together. Or if like -

Nia: I can already hear the angry letters being written.

Van: Right?

[laughter]


13/19

Van: Oh, yes. Write angry letters, that's fine.

Nia: [laughter] They're probably going to come to me.

Van: Well, you have to have the same mindset as I do when I have my customers at work! [laughter] Idon't... I was on the front page of a newspaper! Whatever.

Nia: Well, I think one of the interesting things about activism, and also being an artist, is that being onthe front page of a newspaper doesn't pay your rent. Like, no, you still have to go back to work the nextday.

Van: Exactly, yeah. That's why, again, my double lives kind of clash because a lot of people in thenonprofit sector will be like, Why are you working retail for hourly pay when you could be doing asalary full-time? and they just don't understand why I choose to work retail. And I'm just like, Dude,retail has some pretty sweet benefits. which, a lot of nonprofit jobs will pay pretty well, but theywon't give you benefits! You don't get health insurance, or paid time off, or things like that. And thenit's the flip side with retail. A lot of my co-workers, they don't understand why anybody would go intononprofit [work], because they don't get benefits. How can you live without benefits? But then the payis shit, so. [laughter]

Nia: Yeah.

Van: But yeah, again, being in the nonprofit world, being as a paid staffer, now as just a volunteer, andthen having my own organization, I definitely know that if this person doesn't seem like if thisperson, or this person of an organization, or the organization itself doesn't reply to your e-mails, theydon't speak to each other. The board members, the staff members, never speak to each other, or theydon't work together, or they never see each other, or they don't have regular meetings. That's a big redflag. Communication is hugely important. In retail, we have staff meetings at least once a month. Andif you don't see that in an organization, I'm not saying that nonprofits have to run like retail, but that'sdefinitely astrength of retail is the communication involved, is that teamwork aspect. So if you don'tsee that in a nonprofit, then I would probably stay away.

Nia: Yeah. Another thing I think is interesting is being a nationally-recognized activist I feel likedoesn't necessarily make you more employable? But it doesn't necessarily help you find jobs! Maybethis isn't your experience, and granted, I'm not a nationally-recognized activist, but I think about it, I'mlike, I've been self-publishing for years, I run a podcast, I do this webcomic, like I have a lot of skills,but I still can't find a job or if I can, it's as somebody's receptionist. [laughter]

Van: Right, right, right. I agree to an extent. It definitely when I started being, you know, little babyactivist, I wanted to be everywhere, no matter even if I had to pay to take the train, or pay for the gas,it didn't matter, 'cause I was dedicated to the cause. Being in this for years now, I can tell you thatunless you're willing to pay me to speak at your event, I probably won't be there. If you want myopinion, written down, you need to pay me for that. Because that's important. How can you be all foradvocating for minorities when you don't support them? Financially?

Nia: It's such a huge hypocrisy.

Van: Right!


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Nia: That organizations that are all about empowering low-income communities and communities ofcolor often don't pay their people shit, and expect a lot for free.

Van: Oh yeah, definitely. I had this event where I told the person, I can't afford your entry fee for theevent, but I would love to attend. They told me that if I volunteered for a couple of hours and paid halfthe entry fee, then I can come. I was like, So I'm paying you to work?

Nia: [laughter]

Van: I don't I didn't understand the logic.

Nia: Did they want you to speak there? How did they ask you to come?

Van: They just wanted me to come for community solidarity! But I literally can't afford communitysolidarity.

Nia: Yeah. [laughter]

Van: Plus like, I'm a cancer survivor this year. I had a major operation in January. So for me to drivehalf an hour, to take a forty-five minute train, to do a twenty minute transfer, to walk four blocks, andthen volunteer at your event, plus I would have had to work that day?

Nia: And to have to pay to get into the event still.

Van: And to have to pay to get into your event. Yeah, that's a lot for me.

Nia: Yeah, even without cancer, that's still a lot! [laughter]

Van: Right? I'm still six months post-op, and I'm still like today, I think I spent all day sleeping. Ihave exactly enough the right amount of energy to make it through my workweek, to have a littlefun, and that's it. It's been really hard for me as an activist to come to terms with that. To really knowyour limitation.

Again, I'm so grateful for Yvonne, because I want to be everywhere, all the time. This event ishappening, I need to be there, it'd be great if I could be at this event, but Yvonne reminds me, Ain't noone paying your ass to be there. They want you there so badly, then they can pay you to be there sobadly. I think she's really made me value myself, and I hope that I really wish that everybody hadsomeone as great as Yvonne to tell them that. That what you have to say is important. And it's not onlyimportant in a societal way, but it's important in a financial way. Again, it sucks that we need to be paidto do this, because we really shouldn't. This should just be the nature of the world, but how else am Igoing to survive? I mean, you're not even going to provide me with a meal once I get there, so that'sanother ten bucks that I'd have to spend somewhere.

So I definitely think that's an oversight of queer communities right now, is that a lot of us are doing allthese skills, again yeah, like you said, being a nationally recognized activist, what does that do for me?I'm still working the retail counter, I'm still being yelled at by some dude trying to sell meFifty Shadesof Grey at the end of it. But yeah, I do have a lot of really useful skills, and I've been offered a couplejobs, and know a lot of people, I can network very well. If I wanted a full-time job at a nonprofitorganization, I could probably do it.


15/19

I don't know, there's just that weird divide between what we value as real work, and a lot of what we do again, I write fanfic. No one pays me for that!

Nia: We haven't talked about that yet!

Van:

I'm pretty sure you're going to ask!

Nia: [laughter] Actually wasn't. I feel like I got all my questions. [laughter] But we can talk about that.

Van: Yeah, the stuff that you do for free how is it really helping you? You said, with your podcast,and me with my comics, nobody pays me for that. But again, a lot of the things that I do are half formyself, because I need to do it, and half for other people, because I feel there's a need for it out there.

Nia: Is the fanfic something that is wholly for yourself? Or... from Facebook, it sounds like you have abunch of very demanding fans of your fanfic. [laughter]

Van: I love my fans. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that I have fans, like, for fanfic.

Nia: [laughter] Do they know that you're a nationally-recognized activist? Is that a separate thing?

Van: No. Oh dear God, no, no. Even today, I had two people post on my Facebook that they wanted toread my stuff, and I'm just like, No!

Nia: [laughter]

Van: Nobody that I know in real life will everknow that this is me.

Nia: Do you want to explain real quick what it is that you write?

Van: Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so much more embarrassing when I say it out loud.

Nia: [laughter]

Van: [laughter] Which, all the best things are. So, I'm totally into this television show, and it's god-awful, but I love it. It's called Supernatural, and [laughter] I can hear my co-workers groaning androlling their eyes

Nia: [laughter]

Van: because Godforbid somebody talked to Van at work about Supernatural, because you'll betrapped for like, ten minutes.

Nia: [laughter]

Van: Hearing about the latest episode, and how much you loved it, how cute the boys are. [laughter]Anyway, so it's this show about Sam and Dean, and they're brothers, and they hunt monsters across thecountry, and they have a tragic backstory, and they're friends with this angel, Castiel, and the end of theworld almost happens once, stuff like that. [laughter] There I am, every week, trying to request


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Wednesday nights off so I can go home and watch it, and I think my manager was just like, I knowyou don't want to close Wednesdays, but I really needed you this week! And there I am, at the register,at eight o'clock, posting Facebook statuses passive-aggressively, Wish I could be there, but I'm atwork!

So my fanfic is centered around the show, and it's dystopian alternate universe, and I think I'm at

almost sixty thousand words right now. And it's gotten a lot of attention. Even people who aren't intoSupernaturalhave been hearing about it, coming over, reading it, giving me really positive reviews,which I think is a pretty big compliment for fanfiction! Like, you're not even into the show and hereyou are, taking the time how long does it take for you to read 60k? That's some serious commitment.Then, on top of that, you leave me a nice comment, that's another extension of, wow, seriouscommitment from people.

Nia: So this is posted on a blog, and comments are the main way you get feedback from youraudience?

Van: Yeah, it's called Archive of Our Own, and you can go there for any kind of fandom, and find ficsbased on I mean, you can search by title and stuff, but you can search by tags. So if you have aspecific universe or thing that you're looking for, you can find all of that. There's this one aspect that Ilove to write and read, which is like domestic fluff, so like you move into a house and you become littlehouse partners, and it's all centered around that. It's really happy cutesy stuff, which really makes myday.

Nia: So for those who may not know, because this is embarrassing but I honestly am not totally sure,how do you define fandom? Like what does that mean exactly?

Van: [laughter] Fandom okay, fandom is where I can go, like okay, there's like a particular scene inSupernaturalthat will happen, and I will either just start posting online that I'm sobbing, and fandom islike, I know; I'm sobbing too!

Nia: [laughter] So, it's like solidarity?

Van: [laughter] Yeah, it's solidarity with feels. Like, I have so many feels! and then it's like, there'ssome Supernaturalepisodes that'll be like, It hurts so good! and fandom is like, I know, bro! Iknow!

Nia: [laughter]

Van: So fandom is like, you're just a fan and you understand that this more than a TV show, these arefeelings and emotions, you are tiedto these characters' situations and when you read fanfic, you'relooking for more. More than what the show already offers you, and I think a lot of that is on tumblr. OrTwitter, too.

Nia: Is it?

Van: Yeah! There's some big Twitters out there forSupernaturalfandom that post links back and forth,and then the stars of the show are on there, some of the actors are on there, and they'll take pictures ofthe sets, which we all go crazy for, 'cause now season nine is coming out in October, which I'm totallypsyched for. [laughter] I keep re-requesting there's a Supernaturalconvention at the end of October


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I keep re-requesting those days off, because I get paranoid that my manager won't notice, and she justwent up, You don't have to keep re-requesting them! I know, Van! I know! You will cut me if I don'tgive you these days off.

Nia: [laughter] That's really awesome, that the manager of your work is really supportive of your, like

Van: Well, [laughter] I havevacation time. I just need to know that my vacation time will be there.Like, you won't mess up and get the wrong weekend, because I will be screaming. [laughter] We're allreally close, so we all know what we're really into. If my co-worker starts talking about his time at BestBuy, you will be there for fifteen minutes listening to his story.

Nia: He's a... he's a fan of Best Buy? [laughter]

Van: We all have our things that we could talk about forever.

Nia: Okay.

Van: For me it's Supernatural, for him it's his time at Best Buy. For another co-worker, it's classic rock.So we all have those things. And I think we all mutually put up with each other when we do that, so it'spretty great. [laughter]

Nia: That's kind of adorable. [laughter]

Van: [laughter] We get a phone call. This girl was looking for a Supernaturalanimated series, and myco-worker was like, Hold on, where's Van? And I get on the phone, Oh you're looking for it? andthen, No, it's actually really hard to find, because not a lot of people sell it back, so your best bet isprobably to buy it on Amazon.

Nia: Wait, this was on the phone? So you were at home?

Van: No, no I was at work. But they pulled me from whatever I was doing to answer the phone call,because they know that anything Supernatural-related, I will know. So they'll pull me out I'll beshelving, and cooking, and they'll be like, There's someone on the phone asking about Supernaturalpaperbacks, and if we have any, and if we did, I already bought it.

Nia: [laughter]

Van: So, sucks to be you.

Nia: [laughter]

Van: Actually, I didn't bring this up, but there is paid Supernaturalfanfiction.

Nia: Oh!

Van: Where the writers of the show will give permission to a certain writer, and there's paperbacksreleased. Just mass-market paperbacks for about eight bucks a pop. They're about two hundred pageslong, just little guys. And yeah, those are paid, that's approved by the creator of the series and the


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writing team.

Nia: So writing fanfic can actually turn into a paid gig.

Van: It can.

Nia:

If the writers of the show like you.

Van: Exactly! If you have the right connections, these authors are pretty well-established withinmultiple fandoms. I think Keith DeCandido actually writes for like nine different fandoms. So if youare a good enough writer, you have the right connections, and you have the right tie to the show, if youtake the characters you obviously can't ship any characters, so you can't

Nia: What is shipping?

Van: [laughter] I was going to explain. This is going to so you take two characters, and you shipthem. You put them in a relationship with each other.

Nia: Okay.

Van: So you obviously can't do that, but if your writing takes the tone of the show, the right way, and itdoesn't have any spoilers for the actual show itself, stuff like that, you can actually probably publishthat.

Nia: So they find you a publisher, or they publish it themselves?

Van: I have no idea. I have no idea how that whole process works, but that is one of the ways I knowyou can get paid for doing fanfiction. Also Amazon saw such response from I can't remember thefandom,Pretty Little Liars?

Nia: Mhm.

Van: Right?

Nia: My boyfriend really likes that show.

Van: That's a thing? Yeah, I think that's a thing.

Nia: Yep.

Van: That's another fandom! Where I see things, like people have feels about that show. Like, intensefeels and connections to characters. So Amazon started seeing so much fanfiction, that they werepaying certain writers to publish e-books about it.

Nia: Hm.

Van: So they have the copyrights and things in order from the show, but yeah they were paying like$1.99 and you actually got to keep some of those royalties, so that's another avenue where people arestarting to pay for fanfiction.Fifty Shades of Grey at work last year, we couldn't keep it on the


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shelves. Every suburban mom wanted that book.

Nia: And that started out as fanfiction forTwilight, right?

Van: Exactly! And that was Edward and Bella, and later on she edited it just to change their names.

Nia:

Hm.

Van: So that's another way you could if your fanfiction is popular enough, it could totally become thenext [laughter]Fifty Shades of Grey writer!

Nia: It seems it's sort of a by-chance thing, though. Like you can't take your fanfic to a publisher andpitch it, they kind of have to find you?

Van: I think it could work both ways. I think, if you had enough support, eventually your manuscript,or your fic, would land on the desk of somebody whose opinion would count for that. But I thinksometimes, if your fanfiction is original enough that it could stand on its own, without any ties to thefandom, that I think you could get the attention of somebody. Somebody, especially if you're doingslash, which is male-male relationships, you could potentially find a smaller press, geared toward thequeer community or gay men.

Nia: Mhm.

Van: So I think that's definitely possible.

Nia: Awesome, I learned something new!

[musical interlude]

we want the airwaves - van binfa

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