camillo padreda testimony against hialeah mayor raul martinez

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UNITED STATFS DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF Fl.ORIDA

MIAMI DIVISION

Vol. 9-1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

NO. 90-231-Cr-KEHOE

Plaintiff,

VS.

RAUL MARTINEZ

Defendant. )

Miami, Florida February L 1991 Friday

t-.Ld) uy -,;;.. ~. ---··~'I

--------------------------) NOV " -1~9f I VOLUMF 9

TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL

l. G. C.H[L£OTI~~ ck.t~. 1<0 u. Sl .• '~!·. Ert·

..0..

BEFORE THE HONORABLE JAMES W. KEHOE nnd a jury

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiff:

For the Defendant:

Court Reporter:

STEVEN CHAYKIN, ESQ. BRUCE UDOLF, ESQ. ASSISTANT U. S. ATTORNEY

JAMES J. HOGAN, ESQ. EVELYN GREER, ESQ,

PAUL HAFERLING 301 North Miami Miami l Florida

Avenue I]., ~ \ 33128 C:(~

~y--./ ...

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THE COURT: I did not notice an article in the

Miami Herald.

{JURY RETURNS}

4 THE COURT: Anybody read anything about this case

5 from any source; television, radio? The witness who we

6 still have to complete the cross-examination is not feeling

7 well. I have excused her from attendance today, and we will

8 get back to her as Quickly as we can.

9 CAMILO PADREDA, GOVERNMENT WITNESS, SWORN

10 THE CLFRK: State your name and spell your last

11 name for the record.

12 THE WITNESS: Camilo Padreda. P-a-d-r-e-d-a.

13 DIRECT EXAMINATION

14 BY MR. UDOLF:

15 Q Mr. Padreda, how old are you?

16 A 58 years old.

17 Q Where were yOU born?

18 A Havana, Cuba.

19 Q When did YOU come to the United States?

20 A May, 1959.

21 Q Did, thereafter, YOU become a permanent resident?

22 A I became a resident of the United States, May, 1959.

23 Q Have you become a citizen of the United States?

24 A In 1965.

25 Q Are YOU married?

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A Sir.

Q Are you married?

3 A Yes.

Padreda - Direct -

4 Q How long have YOU been married?

5 A I have been married for 25 years.

6 Q Do YOU have any children?

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7 A I got two children in this marriage, and three in the

8 first marriage.

9 Q When YOU came to the United States, what was YOur first

10 Job in the United States?

11 A When I come to the United States, my first work was at

12 the Everglades Flower Shop in Palm Beach.

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Q How long did YOU work at the flower shop?

A Till February, 1961.

Q Did there come a time that YOU got involved in the

construction business?

A I become in the construction business in 1968.

18 Q How did you get involved in the construction bUSiness?

19 A First of all, I was 0 salesman, sales, real estate. and

20 then I become a sub-builder and then sub-general contractor.

21 In 1972 I become general contractor in State of Florida.

22 Q What is your present occupation?

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A Contractor.

Q What is the name of your company?

A J.P. Advisors.

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Q How long have YOU been a general contractor?

A Been a general contractor since 1972.

Vol 9-4

Q Are YOU presently licensed as a general contractor in

the State of Florida?

A My license was revoked about two weeks ago, and also it

is a hearing pending to reinstitute the license.

Q Was your license suspended as a result of your

conviction pertaining to the Coso Delago Project?

A That's correct.

Q That conviction was pursuant to a plea agreement that

YOU entered into between yourself and the United States

Government?

A That's correct.

Q We will get to that in a moment. When yOU began as a

subcontractor or sub-general contractor, what kinds of

buildings did YOU build?

A Houses and duplex, and any building UP to three story

high.

Q That was your limitation as to what yOU could build?

A That's correct.

Q When yoU became a general contractor, what kind of

buildings did yOU build?

A Anything. Commercial. ShOPPing. Office and apartment

units.

Q Did YOU have occasion, during your work as a general

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1 contractor, to start doing low income housing or federally

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or locally subsidized low income or elderly housing?

A Yes.

Q When did that start?

A 1971.

Q How did yOU get involved in that?

A I was asking to bid in the project called Semi noah

8 Gardens in Hialeah.

9 Q What was Seminoah Gardens?

10 A Consisting of 51 houses and duplexes.

11 Q Was that a federally subsidized housing project?

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A Yes.

Q Did yoU hove any federally subsidized housing after

that?

A Yes.

Q How many after that?

A Since 1971 till 1985, '87; about 7, 8.

Q Do yOU know an individual by the name of Sacaso or on

19 individual named Alfredo Osorio?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Who were they?

22 A They are Nicaraguans. They are engineers that came to

23 this country in 1980. I was introduced to them by one of my

24 friends, Raul Garcia Quintero, and they become my partners

25 in the corporation as financing partners.

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1 Q What kinds of buildings did YOU build with Mr. Sacosa

2 and Mr, Osorio?

3 A I build 3 projects for Dade County. One on First Street

4 Southwest and 9th Avenue, The second one was on 17th Avunue

5 Southwest and 5th Street and the 3rd one at U.S, 1 and 37th

6 Avenue,

7 Q What kind of projects were these?

8 A That was for elderly houses, elderly housing.

9 Q Was that a federally subsidized project?

10 A That's correct,

11 Q What was the agency or local agency that yOU dealt with

12 to build those projects?

13 A The Little Hud of Dade County.

14 Q During what period of time did YOU build those projects?

15 A From 1981 to about 1982,

16 Q Did Mr. Sacasa and Osorio--were they partners with YOU I 17 in any other projects?

18 A They were also a partner with me in the project in

19 Texas,

20 Q What kind of project was that?

21 A 282 townhouses.

22 Q Was that federally subsidized?

23 A No, That was private.

24 Q When was that project being built?

25 A That project start in 1982. May, June, 1982,

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Padreda - Direct -

approximately.

Q You heard of the Esperanzo Project?

A That's correct.

Q Did YOU bid on the Fsperanzo Project?

A Yes, sir.

Q Who were your partners in that?

A Alfredo Sacosa, Alfredo Osorio and Jorge Herdocea.

Vol. 9-7

Q The same partners that were involved with YOU in the

other projects were involved with YOU in the Esperonza

Project?

A That's correct.

Q You mentioned Mr.Socoso. How do yoU spell his nome?

A S-o-c-o-s-o.

Q Do yOU remember his first nome?

A Alfredo. A-l-f-r-e-d-o.

Q Mr. Osorio was the other portner?

A Alfredo Osorio. O-s-o-r-i-o.

Q Do yOU have any other partners?

A Jorge Herdocea. H-e-r-d-o-c-e-o.

Q Was the project in Texas funded from monies from Mr.

Herdocea or finance arranged by Mr.Sacoso and Mr. Herdocea?

A The owner of the project--the owners of the project that

were from Corpus Christi funding the project. We don't have

to gO to the bank or anything.

Q The profits from that project were paid to YOU and Mr.

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Sacasa here in Florida?

A It was paid in Texas.

Q What was done with the monies? Was it transmitted back

there?

A It was transmitted to our accounts in Miami.

Q Between 1971, I believe that's when YOU said YOU started

YOur first HUn project was in 1971?

A 1971.

Q In '86 or '87 when the last project, was Coso Delago the

last project?

A No, Sir. That project was Sweetwater Towers.

Q During those times, did YOU become involved in polItics

locally and notionally, Mr. Padreda?

A I have been involved since 1968.

Q Describe your involvement in politics. What did yOU do

in politics?

A Mainly boot racing~ getting together with the--introduce

the candidates from some of the leaders of the community.

Q Why did you get involved in politics in that manner?

A I would SOY that in order to get recognition, in order

to get known by these people, YOU have to be involved in

politics.

Q What was the advantage to Camilo Padredo to get known by

these people, and what people are YOU referring to?

A You talk about the names?

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Padreda - Direct -

1 Q Not specific. But what type of people are you referring

to when YOU say YOU want to get to know them? 2

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A I have been involved with a campaign for the Mayor of

Miami, City of Hialeah. city of the county; United States

Senator; President.

6 Q You raised funds for these individuals?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q What was the advantage of Camilo Padreda to get involved

9 in that matter of raising funds for these candidates?

10 A I think the major fund raising would like to have the

11 recognition and to have the acknowledge of personal

12 friendship with these persons. The person that can be

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elected and also help in the friends that yOU think would be

the better people for the job.

Q What advantage was there to yOU, Mr. Padredo. as for as

being friends with these people that YOU were helping to

17 elect?

18 A Well, when YOU need to help somebody--you got a friend

19 when yOU can call him, to help your friends.

20 Q What do YOU mean, when YOU need to help somebody?

21 A If YOU got a case, YOU need a friend in a Job and is

22 looking for a job, maybe yOU can call somebody and help him

23 to get a Job.

24 Q When YOU soy call somebody. ore YOU referring to the

25 politicians or public officers YOU help get elected?

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A That is one of the people that we can call.

Q How would YOU gO about raising funds for the various

candidates that YOU work? How would YOU do that?

A Normally yOU do a get together, cocktail party or get in

a restaurant or get on the hotel and do a banquet or

something like that.

Q Would YOU arrange parties like that?

A Correct.

Q Then what would YOU do? How would yOU collect the

money?

A We ask for contributions to any particular person.

Q Did the various candidates and public officials that yOU

were doing this for knnw YOU were doing this organizing?

A Yes.

Q And why do that Mr. Pedreda? Why do that?

A I would say that as a Cuban, we passing in our country

we not involved in politics. The reason we were not

involved in politics is what is happening in Cuba. My

concern is that we would like to have the best people

possible on some of the jobs, and I would like to be

involved with the politicians.

Q There was a difference between what was done in Cuba,

and what was done here, is there not, in the United States?

A In Cuba yOU don't hove to raise money for the

politicians. The politicians by themselves finance their

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own campaign.

Q What if YOU wonted a favor from the politicians in Cuba?

A Well, in Cuba and in any other latin American country,

when you gO to the person in the Government or in the

particular job, if You need something, always going to be a

request for a change, means if I help YOU, YOU help me.

Q What 1s the difference or how is it different 1n this

country?

A In this country YOU raise money for the politician. You

cannot buy politicians later on.

a What did YOU expect when YOU become friends with these

politicians, by raising money?

A I think that anybody can expect to have a good relation,

that YOU can gO and ask for Mr. Joe Doe's help, or if yOU

need some help from anything, YOU can do go see them.

Q What advantage was it to Camilo Padreda, as a developer? I

A To be involved in, have a knowledge of the project that

come in, in the future.

a Was there an advantage to knowing the various

politicians and public officials that would rule uPon or

decide who was to get projects or zoning or anything of that

matter? Was there an advantage in that regard?

A That's correct.

Q Were YOU a member of any particular organizations that

faCilitated your involvement in politics?

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1 A Yes. ME 2 ( Q What were some of those organizations?

3 A Latin Builders Association.

4 Q How were YOU involved in Latin Builders Association?

5 A In 1971 or 1972 we started the organization. because we

6 were the subcontractors. We were very pressed by some of the

7 inspectors and building inspectors. We were very impressed

8 to the subcontractors, and were trying to destroy some of

9 our subcontractors. ond we decide to form on association in

10 order to help the industry.

11 Q. How for did YOU rise in that organization?

12 A Say again, sir.

13 Q. How for did you--whot kind of position did YOU attain in

14 that organization?

15 A I was president of Latin Building in 1976.

16 Q And how long were you president? I

17 A Two terms.

18 Q And did YOU rerooin active in the Latin Builders

19 Association ofter being president?

20 A As a member. As past president.

21 Q Were YOU able to use some of the friends and contacts

22 that YOU had, as a result of your political activity to

23 assist the Latin Builders AssOCiation?

24 A I cannot answer that question. I know the people or the

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1 was the president.

2 Q You said that it was good for Camilo Pedreda, both as a

3 developer, also to help friends that needed help?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q Did friends come to YOU for help?

6 A Yes.

7 Q As a matter of fact, that happened fairly regularly, did

8 it not?

9 A Yes.

10 Q At some point, Mr. Pedreda, YOU got involved in a

11 project known as Coso Delago?

12 A Yes.

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Q Casa Delago come under investigation by the Federal

Government?

15 A Correct.

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MR. HOGAN: Do yOU have a date?

THE COURT: See if YOU can set a time.

18 Q Do YOU know approximately when Coso Delago started to

19 become under· investigation?

20 A I do not know the time, but I think it was after I

21 finished the project.

22 Q Do YOU recall approximately when that was?

23 A I think I finished the project C.O. on November, '89.

24 November 30, '89.

25 Q As a result of that investigation, did YOU enter into a

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1 plea agreement, by which you plead guilty to several

2 charges, or two charges?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What is your understanding, sir, with respect to that

5 plea agreement, that YOU entered into?

6 A First of all, my first request was that my daughter

7 would not be prosecuted, or involved in any investigation.

8 Q How was is it that YOU knew that your daughter was under

9 investigation?

10 A My daughter's lawyer received a letter from the United

11 States Attorney that my daughter was a target of the

12 investigation for not signing one paper.

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Q So yoU knew that she was a target of an investigation at

the time that YOU entered into the plea agreement?

15 A Yes, sir.

16 Q Did anyone threaten YOU, sir, that she was about to be

17 indicted or will be indicted, if yOU did not sign or enter

18 into the pleo agreement?

19 A No.

20 Q How old is your daughter?

21 A 35.

22 Q During the period of time that YOU were building Coso

23 Delago, was she an employee for you?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What did yoU plead guilty to?

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A I plead guilty to sign a cost certification, false

statement and to conspiracy to make false statement.

Q What is a cost certification?

A Cost certification is the--you have to put all the

numbers together for whatever degree of cost of the project

was.

Q Basically YOU plead guilty to lYing on that cost

certification?

A That's correct.

Q You plead guilty to conspiracy with others to lie on

that cost certification?

A Yes.

Q What is the maximum penalty, sir, that YOU were are

facing for each of those offenses?

A Five years.

Q For a total of 10 years?

A Yes, sir.

Q Whot other agreement do YOU understand was part of this

plea agreement the with the United States?

A I have to--l have to fully cooperate with any

investigation that I am on, and that I would not be in

charge of any other investigation that was in place.

Q In other words, you received immunity against other

charges for other possible charges arising from

investigations undergoing at thot time) in your plea

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1 agreement?

( 2 A Yes.

3 Q Do YOU remember how many investigations YOU were told

4 were under way at that time?

5 A It was two investigations.

6 Q Which of the two ore we referring to?

7 A Coso Delago.

8 0 Which is the one YOU plead to two counts?

9 A Yes.

10 Q What was the other one?

11 A Porta Del Sol. Another project--100 unit project.

12 Q Porta Del Sol--whot were YOU under investigation for in

13 Porto Del Sol?

14 A Because when I bought Porto Del Sol, I bought the

15 contract in Porta Del Sol. I raised the price from $700,000

16 to $800,000. I

17 Q The affect of which YOU were going to get $80,000, that

18 YOU were, at that time not entitled to?

19 A At the time I signed the contract, I was entitled

20 because I don't have any contract with the developer. At

21 the time I signed the contract, I was acting just as a

22 buyer, as a middleman.

23 Q Mr. Pedredo, you did attempt to conceal the $80,000 in

24 the form of a broker commission] did YOU not?

25 A Yes.

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Q That was Just in case you became 0--

A A general contractor.

Q For that project?

A That's correct.

Vol. 9-17

Q They would not know YOU hod received some money from the

6 proceeds of the sale?

7 A Yes. By the some token, if I don't issue a general

8 contractor I will receive the money.

9 Q Mr. Padreda, your anticipation of receiving --your

10 anticipation was thot YOU would have a chance of getting the

11 contract to build that property in Porto Del Sol.

12 A Be aware that it was the first time I did work for or do

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some type of deal with these people, out in the audience

that I never know before.

You are right when I say I change that nome to the

real estate, is because I want to be safe in order to get

the money. And also I want to tell yOU that when I put the

70 thousand dollars down payment for that project, if the

19 project was no close, and we don't gO to the closing, or

20 they don't give the contract to me, I can lost the 70

21 thousand dollars, personally.

22 Q You were under investigation for that, were yOU not?

23 A That's correct. Also after I become general contractor,

24 wos, yOU know, on offense.

25 Q You did become general contractor for that offense, did

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1 YOU not?

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A Yes.

Q You did not return that 70 thousand dollars, did you?

A No.

Q Port of that plea agreement that yoU plead guilty to the

6 two offenses that we talked about in Casa Delago, there was

7 an agreement not to charge yOU with any offenses arrising

8 out of Porta Del Sol?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q Did the United States make any other promises or

11 agreements with yOU in exchange for your plea agreement?

12 A Yes.

13 Q What were they?

14 A That I connot--that the agreement will be void and null

15 if I make any false statement.

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Q What else? Were YOU given any other type of immunity?

A Could you be more specific?

Q Were yOU given immunity for any information that yOU

provided the United States Government, pursuant to this plea

agreement?

A Yes, sir.

Q What was your understanding with respect to that

agreement?

A That anytime that I have to gO to the Grand Jury or

answer any Questions that YOU hove, United States Government

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1 has, I have to truthfully answer the questions and

• 2 ( cooperate with YOU in any investigation that is going on.

3 Q Is it your understanding that we con charge YOU for

4 crimes thot you odmit to, pursuant to this plea agreement?

5 A No, sir.

6 Q In other words, your understanding is that we cannot

7 charge yOU for anything that yOU tell us, for any crimes YOU

8 admit to, pursuant to this plea agreement?

9 A Yes, sir.

10 Q What other agreements did the United States make? I am

11 referring specifically to your daughter?

12 A That she would not be in charge for any investigation

13 that ~as on this project. If I not truthfully answer ony

14 questions, or cooperate. my daughter can be charged anyhow.

15 Q Was there on agreement. sir, with respect to restitution

16 in the plea agreement? I 17 A Can yOU---

18 Q Was there an agreement by yOU to give UP 0 certain

19 amount of money that was being escrowed by the United States

20 Government--give UP your claims to that money?

21 A Yes. They request in order to restitution on the money,

22 Porta Del Sol, to toke all my profit, which was about

23 $129,000--$119,000.

24 Q That was being held in escrow by the United States

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1 A For two and a half years.

( 2 Q Have YOU agreed to waive all Your rights to that money?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What else did the United States agree to do in exchange

5 for your cooperation and your plea of guilty to two counts

6 of lying and conspiracy to lie--what others?

7 A I no understand Your Question.

8 Q Were there any agreements pertaining to your sentence,

9 Mr. Podreda?

10 A No, sir.

11 Q Did the Government agree to do anything at the time of

12 your sentence?

13 A The only Question of the other thing that I ask the

14 Government of the United States, was not to prosecute my

15 daughter. That was my major request. The Government--I do

16 remember the Government said thot ot the time of my I 17 sentence, they will tell the Judge that I have been

'5 18 truthfully with the Government 1 but I don't have any

19 agreement with the Government in view of my sentence, or

20 they will do anything to help in the sentence.

21 Q Has anybody promised YOU what the Government will say at

22 the time of sentencing?

23 A No, sir.

24 Q Has anybody promised you what type of sentence the

25 Government will recommend, if any?

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A No.

Q Did YOU, pursuant to this plea agreement, in fact, enter

a pleQ of guilty to counts one and two in case number

90-739-Cr-before Judge King, in this district?

A Yes.

Q Mr. Padreda, did YOU plead guilty because yOU were

guilty?

A Yes, I was.

Q You indicated that port of that agreement was to

cooperate with the United States and provide information to

the United States for which you would receive immunity. We

could not prosecute YOU for any crimes yoU may have that yOU

admit to during Your cooperation?

A Yes, sir.

Q Did YOU, in fact, provide information to the United

States?

A I asked the question the United States has in some

investigation, yes.

Q Did YOU provide information to the United States with

respect to re-zoning of property within the--re-zoning of

property before the Dade County Commission?

A Yes, sir.

Q What kind of information did YOU provide to the United

States Government, with respect to that?

A Answer the questions of the checks that I issued as 0

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1 part of a commission or filing fee to one of the

2 commissioners.

3 Q Was this involving, I think it is called a Beaegao Armas

4 Trust?

5 A Yes, sir.

6 Q Did I pronounce that correctly?

7 A Beaegao Armas.

8 THE COURT: Spell it, please.

9 A B-e-a-e-g-a-o A-r-m-a-s Trust Two.

10 Q Basically what kind of information did yOU provide,

11 pursuant to questions asked by YOU, by the United States

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Government, regarding that property?

A That one of the Dade County Commissioner's help me to

sell property.

Q Did he do anything else, in addition to helping YOU sell

the property?

A When he come to me and provide me with, that he can

offer me the sales of the property to one of the buyers;

19 that were we were working with him for a period of time, and

20 this gentleman have not provide the final contract, the

21 commission, through his daughter, who was a real estate

22 salesman. He told me he can help and get that contract.

23 Q He also told YOU he can help YOU in another way, did he

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not?

A He told me he will help me to get people out of the

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trailer park, to go to the---

Vol. 9-23

MR. HOGAN: Could YOU speak a little--I am having

trouble with the accent.

THE COURT: Just slow down a little bit for us,

please.

Q Mr. Padreda, Just slow down.

A I am sorry.

Q Try to speak directly into the microphone.

THE COURT: Would YOU repeat that answer, please.

Read that last answer, please.

A To the cnmmission hearing.

Q To do what?

A To speak for the re-zoning.

Q Did YOU have an interest in that property?

A r have 25 percent interest in the project.

Q You had other partners involved in that property?

A Yes.

Q The sale of that property was contingent upon the

rezoning?

A That's correct.

Q There was no--there would be no finder fee for the

county commissioner~ unless the property was rezoned?

A Yes, sir.

Q You knew that that county commissioner would support the

rezoning and then get a reward in the form of a finder's

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fee?

A That's correct.

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3 a The fact is, was the property rezoned?

4 A Yes, it was.

Vol. 9-24

5 Q The fact was, or is, did that county commissioner get

6 it--o finder's fee?

7 A Yes.

8 MR. HOGAN: Let's get the commissioner's name.

9 MR. CHAYKIN: We object. I will be glad to

10 approach sidebar.

11 THE COURT: His request is granted.

12 Q What is the nome of the county commissioner YOU are

13 referring to?

14 A Jorge Valdez.

15 Q How did Mr. Valdez receive the finder's fee from yOU,

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sir?

A

a Through different checks. Through different companies.

That was because Mr. Valdez's, I believe YOU said,

19 daughter, was not a registered real estate broker, or real

20 estate salesperson, at that time, or do YOU know?

21 A At the time that it finalized she was not--she did not

22 have a license yet.

23 a Were yOU involved--pursuant to your plea agreement, did

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yoU also talk about rezoning of another property, located

west of the Palmetto Fxpressway?

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1 A Sir, I don't think that was the right answer. The

( 2 property was on the moster plan.

3 Q I'm sorry. Was the property that was located west of

4 the Palmetto---

5 A To be included in the master plan.

6 Q Did YOU have an interest in that property?

7 A I have a contract to buy five acres, at cost.

8 Q At cost?

9 A At cost.

10 Q Why were yOU getting a contract to purchase that

11 property, at cost?

12 A Because, if that property will be included in the master

13 plao, automatically will be substantial increase in the

14 price.

15 Q What were yOU to do--who were the owners of that

16 property? I

17 A Beaegao Armas.

18 Q What were yOU to do in exchange for being able to

19 purchase this property for cost? What did they expect yoU

20 to do?

21 A Do any lobbying with every person I know in the county

22 commission.

23 Q Did yOU, in fact, do that?

24 A r did port of it. I talked to some of the persons.

25 Q Did YOU speaK to Mr. Valdez?

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Vol. 9-?6 Padreda - Direct -

1 A I talked to Mr. Valdez, too. Yes, sir. ~ 2 l Q Do YOU know of any agreement that was reached between

3 6

the owners and Mr. Valdez, in exchange?

4 A I understand there was an agreement between Mr. Valdez

5 and the owners of the property.

6 Q What was your understanding of the agreement?

7 A The agreement was that Valdez want a piece of the

8 property or something in exchange, but that was between

9 Valdez and the owner. I was not present.

10 Q Did Mr. Valdez talk to yOU about that?

11 A Mr. Valdez told me one day he did not want to

12 be--specifically he did not wont to be screwed by these

13 people.

14 Q What was that?

15 A He did not want to be screwed by these people. But I

16 was not in the conversation between them. I was not I 17 present.

18 Q But YOU found out about that conversation through some

19 of the other people who owned the property?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Now, there was another matter that yOU told the United

22 states Government, pursuant to questioning, with respect to

23 the election of the City Manager of Miami. Is that correct?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What was it that yOU told the agents, and the assistant

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Vol. 9-27

Padreda - Direct -

United States attorney's Questioning YOU about that? 1

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A When they Questioned me about what happened, I tell the

truth, and the truth was that one of the commissioner

4 requests help in his coming fund raising, if he will vote

5 for Sergio Pereira.

6 Q What did that commissioner wont?

7 A The commission wont---

8 Q Do yoU want me to identify the commissioner? Who was

9 the commissioner we are referring to?

10 A Demetrio Perez.

11 Q What did Mr. Perez want in exchange for the support

12 of--Sergio Pereira was the city monager or going to be the

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city manager?

A To vote for Sergio Pereira. He wonts Sergio Pereira's

friends to do a fund raising for his campaign.

Q Did he wont anything else? Did he wont some type of

17 guarantee?

18 A When we talk about that we will raise the money in his

19 coming campaign , it was six months. During the next of six

20 months he wont to be sure we no back UP for that agreement,

21 and he would like to see that money would be held in escrow.

22 Q Were arrangements mode by certain individuals to put

23 money UP in escrow as a guarantee?

24 A Yes.

25 Q How much money was put up in escrow as a guarantee?

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A $50,000.

Q Was that money ever turned over to Mr. Perez?

A No.

Q Why was that?

5 A He never gO to Sergio Pereira.

Vol. 9-28

6 Q As part of your plea agreement, and the information YOU

7 were providing to the United States Government, did yoU also

8 provide information with respect to the Esperanza Project?

9 A Yes.

10 Q What was your understanding--how did yOU first become

11 involved in the Esperanza Project?

12 A During my--during 1982, I was in Texas and I have three

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portners in Miami dOing nothing, and we were trying to get

some work after we finished the last project from HUn in

U.S. 1 ond 37 Avenue. And we went to see different cities,

16 and one of the city I visit was the City of Hialeoh was

17 looking to see if they have any job available in the near

18 future.

19 At that time I was informed that one of the

20 projects that they called Esperanza would be advertising for

21 request for proposal.

22 Q Who did yOU speak to?

23 A I speak with the Mayor, Raul Martinez.

24 Q Who was that?

25 A The Mayor.

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Vol. 9-29

Padreda - Direct -

Q Do YOU see him in the courtroom. today?

MR. HOGAN: Stand UP.

A Yes. The Mayor of Hialeah.

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MR. CHAYKIN: For the record, identifYing the

defendant, Raul Martinez.

6 Q How did YOU arrange to meet Raul Martinez. at that time?

7 MR. HOGAN: Could we have a date and time?

8 Q Do YOU remember when it was YOU first talked to Raul

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Martinez about the Esperanza Project?

A Summer of 1982.

Q It has been established that the--do YOU recoIl when the

advertisements were placed in the ad for the place in the

poper for the Esperanza Project?

A I don't recall the date of the request for proposal. it

15 was put in the newspaper, no.

16 QW~s the conversation with Raul Martinez before or after?

17 A Before.

18 Q Where did YOU meet Raul Martinez?

19 A In his office in the City Hall.

20 Q Did YOU call UP beforehand?

21 A I don't recall if I called, but J believe I did call.

22 Q Had yOU met Raul Martinez before?

23 A Yes. Many times.

24 Q In what way?

25 A Mayor Raul Martinez was, in 1970, he was in a campoign

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Vol. 9-30 Podreda - Direct -

1 with Maurice Ferre, helping me, and he was helping also

2 Mayor Ferre to be elected to the Dade County Mayor. later

3 on Mayor Martinez helped me to get a project called Heldon

4 Townhouses?

5 Q What year was that?

6 A That have to be in 1971 or 1972. No. Late in 1972, and

7 Mayor Martinez provide me--introduced me to the Mayor of

8 Hialeah, as well as the chairman of the water and sewer} who

9 owned the project.

10 Q What other contact did YOU have with the defendant, Raul

11 Martinez, subsequent to that?

12 A I become friends with Mayor Martinez during quite a few

13 campaigns, and personal friends.

14 Q Did yOU ever raise money for Raul Martinez?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Do yOU recall which election that yOU raised money for,

17 or which elections yOU raised money?

18 A I remember to raise money for Mayor Martinez in his

19 election for Mayor of Hialeah.

20 Q That is when he was running against Dale Bennett?

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23 witness.

MR. HOGAN: Objection. Leading.

THE COURT: Objection sustained. Don't lead your

24 Q Do yOU recall--who do yOU recall who he was running

25 against for that position?

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A No. I do not remember.

Q Do YOU recall what year that was?

Vol. 9-31

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3 A Have to be 1980 or '81. I don't recall exactly what

4 year it was.

5 Q Did you--what did YOU do to raise money for Raul

6 Martinez?

7 A ASK for the friends to give a check for Mayor Martinez

8 campaign. Ask special people who work for me in

9 construction, my sub-contractors, and so on.

10 Q People YOU would hire to do work?

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A More or less.

Q How much money did YOU raise?

A Two or three, maximum $3,000, I don't recall.

a Did Raul Martinez know who yOU were in 1982, when YOU

met with him in the summer of '82?

A r don't understand your question.

Q Did YOU have any difficulty in getting appointments for

18 Raul Martinez in the summer of 1982?

19 A No.

20 Q What transpired at that meeting, what tooK place?

21 A Mayor Martinez told me that he is in the process of the

22 plans to have request for proposal of the project for the

23 elderly houses.

24 Q Did he give YOU any other information how many units, or

25 anything else?

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A No. 1

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5

Q Did there come a time that YOU learned that the request

for proposal was advertised?

A Yes.

Q Do YOU recall how YOU learned that?

6 A Through the newspaper. I was informed by one of my

7 partners.

8 Q Do yOU recall which partner inform YOU have that?

9 A Mr. Sacasa, I think at that time. At that time I was in

10 Texas, and Mr. Sacosa called me and told me

11 MR. HOGAN: Objection. Hearsay.

12 THE COURT: Sustained.

13 Q Based on what Mr. Sacasa told YOU about the proposal,

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did YOU do anything?

A I aSKed them to pick it UP the plans and the specs.

Q And do yOU know if they did that?

A Yes, they did.

Q Let me show YOU what has already been admitted into

evidence Government's exhibit 107.1, and ask yOU if yOU

20 recognize the writing on that?

21 A That was Mr. Alfredo Osorio?

22 Q That is---

23 MR. HOGAN: Can I see that?

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Q Do YOU recognize his signature?

A Yes, that is Alfred Osorio's Signature.

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Vol. 9-33

Padreda - Direct -

1 Q That is the same Osorio-- Alfredo Osorio who was your

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partner?

A Yes.

Q Does that indicate he picKed UP a request for proposal

from the housing authority?

A Yes.

MR. CHAYKIN: May I publish this for the jury.

THE COURT: Yes.

Q Did YOU, shortly after the receipt doted August 3D,

1982, cause a letter to be written to the housing authority,

expressing your interest in the project?

A Yes.

Q Let me show YOU what has been marked as Government's

Exhibit 116.2 for identification, and ask if YOU---

Mr. Pedreda, after your office received the request for

proposal from the Hialeah Housing Authority, did yOU hove

17 any further contact with Raul Martinez, or anybody else from

18 his office?

19 A Yes, sir, I have.

20 Q Please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what

21 the next contact was with City Hall?

22 MR. HOGAN: What did we do with 116.1?

23 MR. CHAYKIN: We are changing the number.

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THE COURT: Are YOU offering 116.1?

MR. CHAYKIN: I don't know about 116.1. I changed

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what I referred to.

THE COURT: It is in the record.

MR. CHAYKIN: 116.2 is in the record, not the

document listed on the exhibit list. We now change what I

referred to 116.2 incorrectly with Mr. Pedreda to exhibit

129 presently for identification. It has not been offered

at this time.

THE COURT: Thank yOU.

THE COURT: Are YOU offering 129?

Q Mr. Pedreda, I ask YOU to look at Government's Exhibit

129 for identification, and ask YOU if YOU recognize thot

letter.

A Yes, sir. It is my letter.

Q Does that appear to be your Signature?

A Ye s lit wa s .

MR. CHAYKIN: We would offer 129 in evidence.

MR. HOGAN: I have no objection.

THE COURT: Received.

(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 129 RECEIVED)

Q What is that letter?

A This is the letter to the Hialeah Housing Authority,

attention to Mr. Morganti, requesting some information about

a sub-cost and clarifications.

Q Did YOU draft that letter?

A No, sir.

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1 Q Who drafted that letter for you?

2 A Mr. Osorio?

3 Q What did Mr. Osorio--what was his function 1n your

4 partnership agreement?

5 A Mr. Osorio was a portner in charge of the whole project,

6 like a project manager. like a project developer.

7 Q What was his responsibility as project manager?

8 A Mr. Osorio was responsible for the plans and specs and

9 the price out the project.

10 Q Who was the one responsible for puting the

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proposals--your proposals together?

A Mr. Osorio.

Q So, he was the one who prepared that letter?

A Yes.

15 Q You signed that letter?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Do YOU know where YOU were at the time YOU signed that

18 letter?

19 A I am pretty sure I was in Texas when they sent it over

20 mail, express mail to me to be signed, and sent it back to

21 them right away.

22 Q Why were you in Texas?

23 A At the beginning of the month, during the payments of

24 the projects in Texos, I used to be in Texas the lost week

25 and first week of the month in order to pay the invoices and

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1

2

pay the sub-contractors, and do a request for poyment, a

draw with the bank inspection with the bank. And that

3 inspection took place the lost week of the month.

4 Q You would fly when your business was there?

5 A I used to be here 15 days and 15 days in Texas, more or

6 less.

7 Q You traveled bacK an forth, as port of your business?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Did there come a time, after your first meeting with

10 Raul Martinez in the summer of '82, that yOU met again with

11 someone at City Hall?

12 A I was called by Mr. Castano.

13 Q Do yOU recall approximately when YOU were called by Mr.

14 Castano?

15 A Had to be the around the 8th to the 10th to the 12th of

16

17

September.

Q Do YOU know Mr. Castano first name? Do YOU recall his

18 first nome?

19 A Give me a moment. Julio Castano.

20 Q Did YOU know who Julio Castano was?

21 A Julio Castano was an assistant to the City Hall,

22 assistant to the Mayor, assistant administrator, assistant;

23 something like that.

24 Q Hod YOU met him before?

25 A Yes, at the City of Miami.

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Padreda - Direct -

Q At the City of Miami?

A Yes. He was working for the City of Miami.

Q Whot was he doing for the City of Miami?

Vol. 9-37

A If I recall, he was in charge of one of the

projects--development projects in the City of Miami.

Capitol investment or something like that. I don't recall

exactly the nome of the department.

Q Did Mr. Castano tell YOU in his telephone conversation

why he wanted to see you?

A No.

a Did YOU see him?

A Yes. I went to see Mr. Castano.

a Where did yOU met with Mr. Castano?

A I met with Mr. Castano at Mr. Castano's office.

a Where is his office?

A At the City Hall, in the forth floor.

Q Where is that in relationship to Raul Martinez's office.

A In relation to the Mayor's office, it is the opposite

port of the building. on the east side of the building.

Q Where is Raul Martinez office?

A Northwest of the building.

Q Is it on the some floor or--

A Yes.

Q What happened at the meeting with Julio Castano?

A At the meeting with Julio Castano. he told me that he

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Vol. 9-38

Padreda - Direct -

was trying to help me into put it together this project;

that he would do his best to help me in this project.

Q What else did he soy to you?

A During the meeting also, he asked me for, that he is

looking to buy, or change or trade his car, and he was

looking to buy a Mercedes. And he asked me to help him to

get financing for the $20.000 that he need for the cor.

Q How did he ask yOU to get financing? What did he wont?

A He wonted to get financing to the cor.

Q Why was he talking to YOU about it?

A I have no ideo. But I think he was looking for me to

help him to finance the cor.

Q When yOU SOy finance, was he looking for YOU to finance

it for him?

A I believe he was asking me to--specificolly, he was

asking me help him in finance the cor,

Q What did YOU take that to mean, Mr. Pedreda?

A That he was looking for some type of help from my own

money.

Q From your pocket?

A That's correct.

Q Did you--was there any connection in your mind between

the Esperanza Project, and his request for money?

A He was talking about Esperanza before he was asking for

the car.

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Padreda - Direct -

Q When did this meeting occur?

A At his office.

Q When approximately?

Vol. 9-39

A It would have to be after the first week of September.

Maybe the 8th, the 10th, the 9th. something like that.

Q Middle of September?

A Yes. I would say so.

MR. HOGAN: Objection. If he is going to lead

him, then write the date on the board. I object to that.

THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. But don't lead.

The objection to leaoing is sustained.

MR. CHAYKIN: I am putting September 8th and 9th

and lOth which is what he mentioned.

Q What did yOU do, as a result of that conversation, Mr.

Pedredo?

A As a result of that conversation, I went to the Mayor

17 office, and I requested the Mayor's secretary that I need to

18 talk to the Mayor.

19 Q Why did YOU do that?

20 A Because I was mod with Castano.

21 Q Why were yoU mad at Castano?

22 A The way he aSKing for financing of his car.

23 Q Did YOU see the Mayor at that time?

24 A Yes. He came out from--he came out for a minute.

25 Q Did YOU talk to him at that time?

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A I talked to the Mayor at that time and told him what

Castano just told me. The Mayor told me that that was his

problem, that is UP to him. He knows what he is doing. And

after that dote, Castano never talked to me again about

that.

Q Was that meeting with Raul Martinez, that yoU just

7 described?

8 A The some day at five minutes, 10 minutes after I talked

9 to Mr. (astano.

10 Q How did Raul Martinez react---whot was his---

11 A He told me that his problem. He know what he is doing.

12 That his problem, and ofter that day, I never hear again

13 from Mr. Castano.

14 Q Did YOU have any other meetings with Raul Martinez,

15 after this meeting?

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19

A I believe, before we present the bid, we went to see

Mr.--I went to see Mayor Martinez, requesting if the land

was included or will hove to be included on the bid. The

Mayor have no answer of that.

20 Q Let me stop YOU for a second.

21 MR. HOGAN: I object to stopping him.

22 MR. CHAYKIN: I was trying to get a date.

23 THE COURT: Go ahead.

24 Q Do yOU know approximately how long after this meeting

25 with Julio Castano and Mayor Raul Martinez was?

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1 A It have to be about a week~ more or less.

( 2 Q Where did this meeting take place?

3 A At the Mayor's office.

4 Q Did YOU call ahead of time for on appointment?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Did YOU receive on apPointment?

7 A Yes.

8 Q When you entered the Mayor's office~ was there anybody

9 else present?

10 A No.

11 Q What took place at that meeting with Raul Martinez?

12 A His office?

13 Q Yes. On this meeting right here.

14 A His office.

15 Q What took place--what was said by yoU, and what was said

16 by Raul Martinez? I

17 A What I say? I was asking him about whot if the land

18 have to be included or not, that we have a Question about

19 the land. He don't have the answer ot that time.

20 Q What was the issue that YOU had land included in what?

21 A On the bid.

22 Q As part of your project?

23 A On the port of the cost for the bid.

24 Q What was his response? f ~ 25 A That he have to check out. He have no ideo at that

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Vol. 9-47.

Padreda - Direct -

1 time.

2 Q Did he say anything to YOU, anything else to YOU at that

3 time?

4 A We discussed at that time also that he would like to

5 see--he would like to see a cooperation--he would like to

6 see something like $150 thousand dollars for the commission.

7 Q When he said $150 thousand dollars for the commission,

8 do you know who he was referring to?

9 A No. I don't know if It was for the housing authority.

10 or was for the Commissioners of the City of Hialeah.

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A

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What did YOU say to that?

That I hove to talk to my partners.

Did YOU protest?

No, sir.

Why did YOU not protest?

Why I have to?

Well, just the week before yOU said Julio Castano

18 for the money, and yOU went running to the Mayor.

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20

21 Question.

MR. HOGAN: Objection. Argumentative.

THE COURT: Sustained, to the form of the

asked

22 Q How were you--how were you gOing to pay him the $150

23 thousand dollars?

24 A I told the Mayor I come to talk to my partners.

25 Q Was there any general discussion on how to be paid?

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Vol, 9-43 Padreda - Direct -

1 A At that time we don't discuss anything about how it

2 going to be paid.

3 Q Was there any discussion about when it would be paid?

4 A No at that time.

5 Q Was there a time it was discussed, when it would be

6 poid?

7 A I went to see my partners, When my--when I finally

8 talked to them --

9 Q When did YOU see your partners?

10 A That Sunday,

11 Q What did YOU tell your partners?

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MR. HOGAN: Could I find out who was present?

Q Do yOU recall who YOU spoke to at this meeting?

A Alfredo Sacoso and I believe Alfredo Osorio was present.

15 Q What did YOU tell them?

16 A That I received 0 request for $150,000.

17 Q From whom?

18 A From the Mayor of Hialeah.

19 Q Did YOU discuss on how YOU would pay it with your

20 partner?

21 A At that time, my partner said we don't have the $150,000

22 in the banks or anything.

23 Q Who said that?

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Q Who said that?

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THE COURT: Go ahead.

A. Mr. Socosa.

Vol. 9-44

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3 Q If YOU did not have the money, how would YOU be able to

4 pay it?

5 A It have to be from the profit of the project.

6 Q How was that gOing to be done?

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A You got a profit on the project.

month from the profit of the project.

9 percentage of finish in the project.

You can draw every

A percent equal to a

10 Q What do YOU mean by that? Explain to the jury how yOU

11 get paid on a project, such as this one.

12 A Any project that the Government has, or any other

13 project that YOU draw every month at a percentage of

14 completion of the job, ot the time that YOU present a

15 percent of completion signed by the architect or engineer,

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you establish how much work YOU have done. Based on that,

yOU also can have equal "XU percent for overhead and profit

18 that YOU don't have to present any invoices or anything.

19 Q It's computed into the numbers already?

20 A That's correct.

21 Q And then what happens to that money when you receive it

22 from the draw?

23 A In any other project, we receive it, and we put it in

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our account, and the rest we pay the sub-contractors.

Q Was there another way YOU can obtain money from the draw

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to payout to Raul Martinez, or anybody else that YOU wonted

to pay money from?

MR. HOGAN: Objection. Speculative.

THE COURT: Overruled.

5 Q How would YOU show justification for the check coming

6 out of your firm, to what, whom to whomever? How could yOU

7 justify?

8 A First of all, I don't have to show anything to request

9 the money. I have to show a percent of the work, of the

10 subcontractors. I have to present a release of lien, and

11 the amount of invoice for the sub-contractors, for profit

12 and overhead, yOU don't have to present any release or any

13 amount of account invoice.

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When YOU receive the money, yOU are receiving the money

to your account. Then YOU reimburse or YOU pay the invoice

to the subcontractors, and the rest which is of the profit,

17 YOU keep in your account.

18 Q After discussion with Mr. Socoso, did YOU then have any

19 other conversations with Raul Martinez?

20 A I went to his house at the day after, and told that my

21 partner agreed to the $150,000.

22 Q Where did yOU gO when YOU advised them of that?

23 A I went to the Mayor ~artinez house.

24 Q Had yOU been there before?

25 A I don't recall being there before.

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Q Did YOU know who Has present at that time? 1

2 A It was people working in the house. I don't know the

3 nome. I sow one, who was Mr. Cardona, was there.

4 Q Did YOU know Mr. Cardona?

5 A I know Mr. Cardona from way before.

6 Q What was being done on the house?

7 A It was remodeling inside the house.

8 Q What was Mr. (ardona--what did it appear that Mr.

9 Cardona was doing?

10 A It appeared he was in charge of the remodeling inside

11 the house.

12 Q When YOU spoke to Raul Martinez about saying your

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partners agreed, when was that in relationship to the--

A The day after.

Q What was his response at that time?

16 A I don't think he gave me any response at that time.

17 Q Was there any discussion with him as to how yOU would

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pay him?

A I tell yOU we talking about it. I said that we can pay

as the job progressing.

Q Was that acceptable to Raul Martinez?

A I believe it was.

Q How would YOU pay him during the course of the

construction?

A With a check.

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Q From what fund?

A From my company.

Podreda - Direct -

Q Were YOU going to make it out to Raul Martinez?

4 A We never discussed that, sir.

5 Q Do yOU think that is the way yOU would do it?

6 MR. HOGAN: Objection.

7 THE COURT: Objection sustained.

Vol. 9-47

8 Q By the way. how much profit were YOU anticipating making

9 on the Esperanza project?

10 A I don't have the numbers, or I was not the one who put

11 the numbers together. but according to what I hear or what I

12 know about from Alfredo Osorio, it was over ~500,OOO.


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A Over $500 J OOO.

Q In addition to that $500,000 profit, as a matter of

17 course, do YOU include 0 certain amount of padding?

18 MR. HOGAN: I object to him leading this witness.


20 Q Do yOU ever include contingencies in your preparation of

21 proposals?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Do YOU recall what percentage, or is there a customary

24 percentage that yOU compute into the total cost os

25 contingenCies, or for contingencies?

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Vol. 9-48 Padredo - Direct -

A It could be anYwhere from three to five percent.

Q That would be of what number, three percent or five

percent of what number?

A Of the total amount, the bid.

Q If the bid was $5,000,000--

A Sir.

Q If the bid was $5,00Q/000~ how much would that

contingency be?

A Anywhere from $150 to $300,000.

Q Was that in addition, or included in the profit?

A That was included on the volume of the bid.

Q That is--what I am trying to Soy, that is included as

expense, before YOU get to your profit?

A That's correct. As a contingencY, it is not including

the expense, as a contingencies.

Q After that discussion, was a proposal prepared by Camilo

Padreda, General Contractor, Inc?

A It was prepared by the Corporation called Camilo

Padreda, General Contractor, Inc.

a Did yOU recall, or do YOU recall having any

conversations with Alfredo Osorio with respect to that

proposal?

A I have Quite a few conversations, YOU know, on the

proposal.

Q Subsequent to that proposal being filed, which it has

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Vol. 9-49

Padreda - Direct -

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been established as September 30, 1982, did yoU continue to

have conversations with Alfredo Osorio about your proposal?

3 A Yes, sir.

4 Q What kind of--whot, if anything, were YOU discussing

5 with Mr. Alfredo Osorio, after the proposal was submitted

6 to the Hialeah housing authority?

7 A We are generally talking when I was in Miami, but I

8 received a call when I was in Texas, that a piece of the

9 roof--

10 MR. HOGAN: Could we receive it?

11 Q From whom did yOU receive this phone call?

12 A From Alfredo Osorio?

13 Q What did he tell you?

14 A That we have---


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THE COURT: I am sorry.

MR. HOGAN: Objection. Hearsay. I would like to

approach the Bench.

19 (SIDEBAR CONfERENCF)

20 MR. HOGAN: Again, I can't make objections unless

21 I know who is speaking. Can yOU tell me who is speaking?

22 MR. CHAYKIN: I thought I identified him.

23 MR. HOGAN: You did.

24 THE COURT: let him finish.

25 MR. HOGAN: When yOU soy talk to his partners

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1 about this, I have to know who he talks to to be able to

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object.

THE COURT: He is doing a pretty fair job,

4 counsel. He is asking him to improve on it and identify at

5 all times.

6 MR. CHAYKIN: I am always trying to learn.

7 THE COURT: My thoughts were about the names of

8 the County commissioners.

9 MR. CHAYKIN: I wont to explain the Government's

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reason. It was because there a pending investigation; at

the same time, Mr. Valdez is not in Court able to defend

himself.

THE COURT: That is one of the tough ones. That's

the way yOU present it.

MR. HOGAN: 801.2D.

MR. CHAYKIN: That 1s the basis for admission.

MR. HOGAN: Subject to connection.

THE COURT: All right.

(SIDEBAR CONCLUDES)

Q With respect to this telephone conversation that yOU had

21 with Mr. Alfredo Osorio, can YOU tell us approximately when,

22 in relationship to the filing of the proposal, yOU had this

23 conversation?

24 A Will yOU repeat that question, please.

25 Q It has been established that the proposol--all the

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Vol. 9-51 PadrAda - Direct -

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proposals were submitted to the Hialeah Housing Authority on

September 30, 1982. The conversation yOU are about to

relate to us, with regard to Alfredo Osorio when, ofter--how

4 long after the filing of that proposal did this conversation

5 occur?

6 A Have to be at least two weeks after that proposal was

7 presented.

8 Q What did Mr. Osorio--what do yOU recall Mr. Osorio

9 telling you?

10 A That in the--on the roof of the houses, the pitch of the

11 roof were invert, and they have to correct the pitch of the

12 roof of the houses.

13 Q Did Mr. Osorio tell YOU how he knew that?

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A Mr. Osorio told me thot--I don't recall he mentioned any

person, but he told me that somebody come to our office, and

we have to change the plan of the roof of the houses.

17 Q Did he identify who it was who come onto your office?

18 A I cannot reCall, but I think he told me it was --

19 Q I don't want YOU to think--if YOU recall.

20 A I don't recall, exactly who it was. When he called,

21 when he moke a colI, I don't think he told me who it was on

22 the phone.

23 Q Did yOU, at this point, or shortly thereafter. learn

24 whether or not there was anyone from Hialeah Housing

25 Authority, visiting?

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Podreda - Direct -

A When he come back to Miami l yes.

Vol. 9-52

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Q Who was it that YOU learned was visiting or coming to

your office?

A According to Alfredo Osorio told me it was a man called

Cardona.

6 Q Do yOU recall his first nome?

7 A Antonio Cardona.

8 Q Did Mr. Osorio tell yOU what Antonio Cardona was doing

9 going to your office?

10 A Requesting to change the plan l because the plan was not

11 acceptable--at the roof of the --the pitch of the roof was

12 not acceptable.

13 Q Was Mr. Osorio--what was Mr. Osorio asking to yOU do?

14 MR. HOGAN: I objection. Leading. Asking for

15 conclusions. I ask for the conversat ions.

16 THE COURT: nverruled gO ahead.

17 Q What was Mr. Osorio asking to YOU do when he was

18 relaying this information to you?

19 A Mr. Osorio informed me that he went to the architect and

20 changed the pIon.

21 Q Did YOU ever have to speak to the architect?

22 A No, sir.

23 Q Who was the architect?

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A David Perez, from Guterrez, Perez and Fallicker.

Q Mr. Padreda l did yOU know whether or not it was

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Vol. g-53

Padreda - Direct -

1 permitted to change the plans after the filing of the

( 2 proposal with the H.H.A?

3 A According to Mr. Osorio, it was a minor change, and

4 according to Mr. Osorio the change was allowed because on

5 the review of the selection review people, called him to

6 they can change the plan. He never told me it was illegal

7 to change the plan. Mr. Osorio never told me.

8 Q I understand that. Mr. Padreda, YOU had been involved

9 in H.U.D. projects, before have YOU not?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q You know that once plans are submitted, they ore not

12 supposed to be changed?

.. ,- 13 A Many times yOU send plans and have been changed bock and

14 forth and also changes after construction stort.

15 Q Why did yOU believe Mr. Cardona was providing YOU with

16 this assistance? I 17 A I believe they wanted--first of all there was a mistake.

18 It was an honest mistake on the plan.

19 Q Why did Mr. Cordono-- why did yOU believe Mr. Cardona

20 was helping you?

21 A I think it is better to ask Mr. Cardona why he help me.

22 He have to have somebody asking him to help me.

23 Q Who do YOU think asked him to help you?


25 A The housing---

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Vol. 9-54

Podreda - Direct -

MR. HOGAN: Excuse me. I object. Speculative who

he thinks helped him.

THE COURT: Objection sustained.

Q Do YOU know why YOU were getting this help, Mr. PaQreda?

A Why?

Q Yes.

A Ask the Question agoin~ please.

Q Do YOU know why, sir, yOU were getting this help from

9 Mr. Cor dono?

10 A I received 0 coll--my office received 0 visit from Mr.

11 Cardona with a set of plans to change the set of plans. To

12 change, I believe, one or two page on the roof plans.

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Q Did YOU know about any changes in plans in the actual

site solution?

A I notice the change of the roof after I come to Miami.

Q How about the site solution?

17 A I never, never, recalled chonge on thot.

18 Q My question to you earlier was---

19 A You soy site plan change.

20 Q Yes.

21 A No. I no remember a change in the site plan.

22 Q Why, sir, were YOU getting this assistance from Antonio

23 Cardona?

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MR. HOGAN: He is still aSKing him to moke on

inference upon inference. I object.

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Vol. 9-55

Padreda - Direct -

THE COURT: Overruled. If he can answer it.

A Will YOU repeat it.

Q Why were YOU getting this assistance from Antonio

4 Cardona?

5 A Because some--they wont to help me on the project.

6 Q Who was they?

7 A The Housing Authority, the City of Hialeah.

8 Q Why were they trying to get help YOU get the project?

9 A If YOU put it that in my mind what I would thinK,

10 because they will get remuneration for that if I get the

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project.

Q What were they going to get?

A $150 thousand dollars.

Q Who was it that first asked YOU about that $150 thousand

dollars?

A The Mayor.

Q What if YOU did not pay Raul Martinez after getting your

project? What would happen?

about this?

What was your understanding

MR. HOGAN: Objection.

(SIDEBAR CONFERENCE)

MR. HOGAN: He is saying what if; what did YOU

23 think, who did yOU think? His internal process, he says who

24 had paid YOU or who asked for it? The mayor. Cardona. I

25 object.

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THE COURT: I will rule on the objection when it

arrives.

MR. HOGAN: I object to that one.

THE COURT: That was his understanding.

Overruled.

(SIDEBAR CONCLUDFD)

BY MR. CHAYKIN:

Q Mr. Padreda, when YOU do a H.U.D. project, how is it

paid out during construction?

A You have a dote, to the 25 of the month, and present a

request for payment. And we do receive the money. 10

percent of the money will be hold as a retainer to the

project, or every draw.

Q How much is left over at the end for yOU, for YOU to

obtain from H.U.D. at the end of a project?

A 10 percent of the whole amount of the project.

Q If the construction cost in the project was 3,500,000,

how much would be leftover at the end to obtain from H.U.D.?

A $350,000.

Q Would that have been the case in the Fsperanza Project?

A If it is funded by Federal Government, it is mandatory.

When yOU have 95 percent completion, yoU can request five

percent of that retainer, which means 50 percent of the

retainer, that equal to five percent.

When yOU got 95 percent or more finish, then the

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1 architect have to sign a paper called substantial

2 completion, and then the H.U.D. will disperse, sometimes UP

3 to five percent, five percent of the retainer--J'm sorry, 50

4 percent of the retainer.

S Sometimes they hold the five percent--the final

6 five percent, maybe UP to a year.

7 Q What was your understanding would happen to that

8 retained money, if YOU did not pay the $150 thousand dollars

9 that was requested by Raul Martinez?

10 A It is easy to have a lot of problems to get a C.O. If

11 yOU are going to follow the all the rules and regulations

12 and specks, it will be very tough to get a final C.O.

13 Q How would that effect your ability to get the retained

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money?

A I would not obtain my money until I have the final C.O.

And also after the final C.O, YOU have one year which is a

17 12 month guarantee that YOU have to keep Q bond or the money

18 for one year guarantee.

19 After the final C.O, if 12 to 15 month period that

20 YOU hove to keep, more or less] five percent in bond or in

21 money the escrow with the Housing Authority.

22 Q What did YOU believe, sir--what was Your understanding,

23 sir, that Raul Martinez could do to prevent yOU from getting

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thot lost installment of money?

A Raul Martinez is the Mayor of Hialeah] and he is also

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the person who supersedes the inspectors and the housing

authority.

3 Q How did YOU understand or believe he could affect---

4 A I don't have any idea at that time l because we plan to

5 pay that money.

6 Q Why did YOU agree to pay that money?

7 A Because my partners and II we agreed that we need the

8 project l and in order to get the project. we have to agree

9 to that.

10 Q What was your understonding if YOU did not agree to POY

11 the $150 thousand dollars?

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A That then we will not get the project.

Q Did YOU have conversations with Mr. Osorio subsequent to

that telephone calli with respect to the changes being made

to the proposal?

A When I came back to Miami. Yes, sir.

Q How many conversations do YOU think yoU had with him

during this period of time, about the changes in the

19 proposal?

20 A I have no idea.

21 Q Was there something else going on during this period of

22 time? And I am suggesting a period of time between

23 September 30, 1982 1 to December 13th, 1982/ when the finol

24 hearing occurred on the proposal. Was something else going

25 on in your life during that period of time?

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A In my what?

Q In your life?

A Yes.

Q What was that?

Padreda - Direct -

A I was indicted in Texas on November ?.

Q What were yOU indicted for?

Vol. 9-59

7 A I was indicted for, in Texas, for the project that was

8 built in Texas with the bankl the Jefferson Savings Bank.

9 Q What became of that indictment? When were yOU indicted?

10 A November 2, 1982.

11 Q Do YOU recall, in relationship to that date, and

12 September 30, 1982, when the proposal was submitted, YOU hod

13 the conversations with Osorio that yOU just testified about?

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A Yes l sir.

Q When was that?

A In the middle of September -- October.

17 Q What happened to thot indictment?

18 A That indictment was dismissed. I was dismissed from the

19 indictment, and we requested a trial to expunge my record.

20 The Judge expunged my record. And the order of the Judge

21 says I can lawfully deny that I have been indicted.

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Q But, YOU were indicted?

A Yes.

Q Do YOU recall when that order of expungement was

entered?

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Vol. 9-60 Podreda - Direct -

A I don't have any ideo. but it was six, eight months in

1983. I believe it was.

Q Before that order of expungement. was the indictment

dismissed?

A Yes.

a Was that pursuant to any--why was the indictment

dismiss?

A Because I was not--l was not guilty of anything.

a Did yOU enter into any type of an agreement with the

United States Government, to get that indictment dismissed?

A I was engaged in an agreement with the Federal

Government to hove--I don't recall exactly what they call

it.

a Did yOU ever hear of a term coIled, pre-trial diversion?

A Pre-trial diversion. that is correct.

Q What was your understanding of that ogreement?

A I don't have to accept that I was guilty of anything.

That if the period of time I don't recall if it was one year

or 8 months or something, that I have to report every month

to the Texas United States Attorney office.

Q Did yOU do that?

A Yes, sir. Not for a year. For when they have all the

facts, they dismiss this order and I don't have to report

anymore ofter I believe five. six months.

Q let me show yOU Government's Exhibit 81 for

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Padreda - Direct -

identification, and ask YOU if YOU recognize that.

A That is the Order of Expungement.

Vol. 9-61

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3 Q Take a look at it. Would that refresh your recollection

4 as to when the order was entered?

5 A November 8, 1984. This is the dote of the file.

6 November 8th.

7 Q Let me show YOU what has been marked Government's

8 Exhibit 82 for identification, and ask YOU if YOU recognize

9 that document?

10 A That was a Petition of the Expungement of the record.

11 a As prepared by your attorney?

12 A By my attorney.

13 Q In it does it refresh--if yOU would just read the first

14 page--refresh your recollection as to when the indictment

15 was dismissed.

16 MR. HOGAN: I have no objection.

17 Q I think the document indicates the indictment was

18 dismissed---

19 A On February 28, 1984.

20 MR. HOGAN: He is offering it. I have no

21 objection to be offered.

22 THE COURT: Do yOU want to offer it?

23 MR. CHAYKIN: They are marked for identification.

24 Q I believe yOU testified yOU were indicted in November?

25 A Second.

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Vol. 9-62

Podreda - Direct -

1 Q Mr. Padreda, do you recall the day that the

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Commission--The ~ialeoh Housing Authority Commission was to

make a decision on who was going to win the Fsperanzo

Project?

5 A If YOU repeat that Question, I would appreciate it.

6 Q Do YOU recoIl the meeting in which the housing

7 authority was to mOKe a decision on the Esperanzo Project?

8 A I was not at the meeting.

9 Q Do yOU recall certain events taking place at the time of

10 that meeting?

11 A At the time of the meeting, no, because I was not there.

12 Q After the meeting?

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A After the meeting, Mr. Osorio---

Q Do yOU recall events occurring after the meeting that

yOU did participate in?

A Yes, sir.

Q Do YOU recall when that occurred?

A The night of the meeting.

Q Do YOU recall the date of that meeting.

A It has to be between December 12 and 13.

Q How is it you remember that?

A Because on the following day, two days after, I went to

the hospital. I had an operation.

Q Were YOU ilIon December 13?

A Sir?

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Vol. 9-63

Padredo - Direct -

1 Q Were YOU suffering from what yoU hod--for what YOU had

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the operation for? Were YOU suffering on December 13?

A Yes. Four Years--for four years.

Q What do YOU recall. sir, occurred on the evening of

December 13?

A That Mr. Osorio come to my house with the architect, and

maybe another person, which I don't recall who it was.

That he told me that he withdrew--he personally withdrew

9 from the bid, before the bid was opened.

10 Q Did YOU know why, or did he tell yoU why he withdrew

11 from the bid?

12 A He told me that David Perez received--have a

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conversation with one of the other bidders for another

company, and another company told Mr. Perez that the FBI was

there in investigating the event.

Q Did he tell YOU--- What did he tell YOU what the other

17 bidder told him they were investigating?

18 A They were there investigating, or was there--they were

19 there looking for whatever happened.

20 Q What was your understanding that the FBI, if the FBI was

21 there, what they were investigating?

22 A They investigating the procedure of the bid.

23 Q How long did that meeting toke place--how long did it

24 last--that meeting?

25 A In my house?

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Padreda - Direct -

Q Yes.

A Half an hour. Maybe a little more.

Q Why was Mr. Osorio telling YOU this?

Vol. 9-64

4 A He was one of my partners. He have to tell me what

5 happened. He was afraid to what happened.

6 Q What did YOU tell him in response?

7 A ~e did it right. He did what he was supposed to do.

8 Q Why did YOU tell him that?

9 A Because we don't wont to have anymore problems. That we

10 just have a big problem a month before.

11 Q What was that?

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A My indictment.

o Why else l other than your indictment--why else did YOU

say he did the right thing?

A Because, we don't want another investigation with the

FBI.

o Why did YOU not wont an investigation with the FBI?

18 A If we have this case $150 thousand dollars because Emmer

19 told--Emmer told--Emmer is the company. The person for

20 Emmer told David Perez that the FBI was there investigating

21 if the money offered to the project or money requested for

22 the project.

23 0 After Mr. Osorio left your house, what did YOU do?

24 MR. HOGAN: Could we have a time?

25 Q Do yOU know approximately when he left your house?

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Vol. 9-65

Padreda - Direct -

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A I don't have any idea. It would have to be after 8:00

or 8:30.

Q What condition were yoU in at that time?

4 A SOY again.

5 Q What condition were yOU in at that time?

6 A I wos--I have a big pain on the hemorrhoids, which I

7 have been having problems for the lost four years. At that

8 time I was bleeding all the time. And the doctor ask me to

9 get to the hospital os soon as possible. I wos at home and

10 resting at home, and I cannot go out because sometime when I

11 go out, my pants was with blood.

12 Q What did YOU do after--what was the next thing YOU did

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have Mr. Osorio came to your house?

A I don't recall if it wos that day, or the day ofter. I

went to the Mayor house.

Q Why did yOU 90--you're talking about Raul Martinez?

17 A Mayor Martinez's house.

18 Q Why did YOU gO to his house?

19 A I went to the house to inform him as to why Mr. Osorio

20 withdrew from the project.

21 Q Do yOU know--do you know if he already knew?

22 A No. I don't know.

23 Q Do YOU recall who was present?

24 A At the house was present, Cardona, and somebody else

25 which I don't remember who it wos. Another person.

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Q Do YOU recall approximately what time that meeting was?

A It was at night. I cannot say. I would say between 7:00

and 9:00 1 something like that.

Q What did YOU tell Raul Martinez at that meeting at his

5 house?

6 A What Osorio told me at my house.

7 Q Which is what?

8 A That the David Perez have a conversation with one of the

9 Emmer person or representative, and the Emmer told David

10 Perez that the FBI was there investigating the procedure,

11 the bidding, because they were aware of the--they were

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suspicious or they have some information that money was

offered or was requesting in this project.

Q What was Raul--who was present? Who was present at that

time?

A ~r. Cardona and another person, which I don't recoIl the

nome. It was somebody else there.

MR. HOGAN: Could we have the sex of the other

19 person?

20 THE COURT: We will allow you. Go ahead.

21 Q Were YOU expecting anybody else to be there when YOU

22 arrived at Raul Martinez house?

23 A No.

24 Q Do YOU recall?

25 A I don't expect him to have anyoody there, or have a lot

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1 of people there. No. I have no idea.

2 Q Had yoU called ahead of time?

3 A I don't think I called. To the best of my recollection.

4 I went direct to his house.

5 Q What did Raul Martinez say to YOU after YOU told him

6 this?

7 A According to what he knows, my project was the best

8 project, at the best price, and I have the vote. But the

9 project was the best project.

10 Q Why did he tell YOU that?

11 A Because he believed that was a good project, I believe.

12 Q Did he indicate to YOU whether or not YOU should have

13 withdrawn the proposal?

14 A Will YOU repeat thot.

15 Q Did he indicate to YOU whether or not YOU should have

16 withdrawn the proposal?

17 A I believe thot he soid} YOU don't have to withdraw. You

18 have the vote. You have the best project.

19 Q This was--were YOU aware of the fact your indictment was

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the newspaper?

Yes, sir.

You knew that it come out in the newspaper?

My indictment?

Yes.

Yes.

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1 Q Was that before or after?

2 A November 3rd, it was in the newspaper. November 3rd was

3 the newspaper in Texas] and November four was the newspaper

4 in Miami.

5 Q Did something occurr in this meeting r sir, December 13

6 or 14 that YOU don't recall whether it was the same day of

7 the meeting?

8 A I don't recall if it was the some day, or day after.

9 Q Something happened at that meeting at Raul Martinez's

10 house thot--yoU recall that meeting?

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A Something happened? It was no other discussion. We

were sitting at the living room, at the entrance of the

house, and they were there two other persons.

Q Was there something that happened that was embarrasing

15 to you?

16 A Oh, yes. I was bleeding on the sofa. The sofa was 0

17 good sofa. I was very upset, because my blood was on the

18 sofa. And we have to clean the sofa.

19 Q Do yOU recoIl checking into the hospital?

20 A If I recall what?

21 Q Checking into the hosPital?

22 A I checK in the hospital? The dote yoU wont?

23 Q Do YOU remember when it was?

24 A On December fifteen.

25 Q Was there a record?

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Padreda - Direct -

A December fifteen.

Vol. 9-69

1

2 Q There are records that I can show yoU to refresh your

3 recollection, as to when it was?

4 A Yes.

5 Q What records are those?

6 A I hope it is admitting papers to the hospital. ~o?

7 Q I will show YOU what has previously been marked as

8 Government's Exhibit 84 for identification. And do YOU

9 recognize cOPies of these documents?

10 A This is the date of the discharge~ December 20.

11 Q Do the records indicate when YOU were admitted? Let me

12 just save some time, and I will direct you to a particuJor

13 page.

14

15

16

A Admitted 12-15-82.

Q Do yOU recognize these as your medical records for that

surgery?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Which hospital was that?

19 A Mercy Hospital.

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22

23

24

25

Q What Kind of medical treatment did YOU receive at the

hospital?

A I hove the operation on the 17th of December.

Q To correct YOur bleeding problem?

A The hemorrhoids.

Q Going bock to that meeting at Raul Martinez's house in

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which Antonio Cardona was there on December 13 or 14th?

A Yes. I remember Cardona.

Q Do YOU remember what, if anything, Raul Martinez stated

to Antonio Cardona?

A If he SOy something to Cardona? No. I don't remember.

Q Did YOU have occasion to thank Antonio Cardona for his

7 assistance?

8 A Please repeat that.


10 THE COURT: Sustained.

11 Q By the way, Mr. Padreda" have you--when was the lost

12 time YOU have seen Antonio Cardona?

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14

15

16

A I don't recall, but it have to be seven or eight years.

Q Did yoU ever have occosioo---

A I don't thinK I see Mr. Cardona maybe 1984/ 1983, '84.

Q What about Mr. Osorio?

17 A Mr. Osorio and I, we went, about a year and a half ogo

18 to Pompano Beach to see a project, about a year and a half

19 ago. Maybe two Years.

20 Q At that time, did YOU have any idea you were under

21 investigation, with respect to the crimes YOU plead guilty

22 to?

23 A No.

24 Q When was the last time yOU saw Mr. Cardoso?

25 A Mr. Cardosa? The some day we went--the 3 of us went

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Padredo - Direct -

together in my cor to Pompono.

Q That was the lost time YOU sow him?

Vol. 9-71

A That was the lost time I sow him. I.ater on he is a

client of my wife, and he have been in my wife's store many

times.

6 Q Have YOU had occasion to talk to Mr. Osorio, Mr.

7 Carooso,or Mr. Caroono about your testimony in this case?

8 A I have never talked about the testimony of the case. I

9 talked to Mr. Osorio. I sow Mr. Osorio at the restaurant on

10 Bird Road and 87th, after the indictment occurred from Mayor

11

12

Martinez. And I asked him what yOU dOing?

thing he is doing, he is telling the truth.

He said the only

And that was

13 the end of the conversation. And he walk away.

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17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

2.5

Q Mr. Padreda, do yoU recognize some of these gentlemen

Sitting over here?

A Most of them. Yes.

Q Why don't YOU introduce them.

MR. HOGAN: Objection.


MR. CHAYKIN: I hove no further questions.

T~E COURT: Cross-examination.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOGAN:

Q Mr. Padreda, I want to see if I can clear up in my mind

something. In the Government's chart here, can YOU see

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Padreda - Cross -

1 that?

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Q

A

Q

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Q

Sir, again.

Can YOU see this chart from there?

Yes, I see the chart.

You can see the dotes?

Yes.

My name is JOY Hogan. I represent Mr.

Vol. 9-72

Martinez. Next

8 to me is EvelYn Greer. You have not talked to anybody in my

9 office about this case, have you?

10 A No, sir.

11 Q We requested, through your attorney's, to speak to yoU,

12 prior to coming to Court, do yOU recall that?

13

14

A No.

Q Your attorney's did not tell YOU we asked to speok to

15 you?

1& A My attorney, Mr. Sam Rabin. Yes.

17 Q You, through his advice, said YOU did not want to?


19 Q This summer of '82 meeting with Raul Martinez, that was

20 a time when YOU were gOing around to a number of

21 municipalities to see if they had work. Is that correct?


23 Q In the summer of '82 that would have been June, July and

24 August, the hot days?

25 A I believe so.

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Vol. 9-73

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q In the summer of '82 he told YOU there were going to be

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o package or bids coming UP on a large project. Esperonza.

A A request for proposals.

Q A request for proposals?

A Yes.

Q Bids ore a request for proposals. I mean

advert1sements--excuse me. Advertisements in the newspapers

8 are what?

9 A Advertising is to present a request for proposal.

10 Q He said there will be advertisements for request for

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proposals?

A That's correct.

Q In the summer of '82?

A Yes.

Q Did YOU know, sir, that the Mayor of Hialeah, at a

public meeting of the City Council, held in Hialeah, Florida

17 on Tuesday, March 23, 1982, some three months before that,

18 had announced that H.U.D. had advised him that morning

19 that the site hod been denied for public housing, that site

20 2B previously under consideration, also had been denied and

21 H.U.D. will give the City time to advertise for proposals

22 for another site for the 133 units which Mayor Martinez---

23 MR. CHAYKIN: Is this a question?

24 MR. HOGAN: Yes.

25 Q Mayor Martinez---

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Padreda - Cross -

MR. CHAYKI~: I object to the form of the

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

Vol. 9-74

4 Q Mayor Martinez added that H.U.D. has indicated that they

5 feel the area West of the Palmetto Expressway lacks the city

6 services at this time, which are necessary for consideration

7 as a site for public housing.

8 Mayor Martinez went on to say that the Hialeah Housing

9 Authority should look for another site and submitted it to

10 H.U.D. for approval. Then they can advertise for a

11 developer of the pre-determined site.

12 Did yoU know that that had gone on in March?

13

14

15

16

A ~o, sir.

Q Big surprise to you. You don't cover the community

newspapers to see if advertisements or bid are coming up?

A I was in Texas most of the time, sir. I was not the one

17 who was looking for that newspaper.

18 Q You would just go to the offices?

19 A No, I work. But the person who have is looking for that

20 was Mr. Alfred free to

21 Q You are not trying to imply there was anything wrong

22 with the Mayor telling YOU what he told the council three

23 months before, are you?

24 A I have no ideo what happened three months before.

25 Q When YOU testified before) were YOU meaning to imply. in

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Vol. 9-75 Podreda - Cross -

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the summer of '82, that the Mayor was giving YOU some secret

information?

A No.

MR. HOGAN: I misunderstood. I apologize.

MR. CHAYKIN: I object.

THE COURT: Objection. Don't make any statements,

7 counsel.

8 Q The Government took yOU back to your birth in Havana,

9 Cuba. Do YOU recall testifying about that sir? You were

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born, were yOU not, August 25, 1933?

A Yes, sir.

e How old are you?

A 58.

Q You have a wife and five children. do you not?

A I have five children.

Q Your wife works with yOU. She is employed. and has a

17 business as part of your corporation?

18 A My wife?

19 Q Yes.

20 A No. sir. She is not.

21 a She is not on officer in your corporation?

22 A No.

23 Q Well, wasn't she on officer in the construction company

24 that built this, or tried to build this project?

25 A No.

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Vol. 9-76

Podreda - Cross -

1 Q Was she the secretory for the contractor?

2 THE COURT: Did YOU understanD the question?

3 Q Was she the secretary for the contractor, being YOU,

4 that was putting in the bids? That is an officer of the

5 corporation.

6 A She was secretory way before, but I don't recall whether

7 she was secretary ot that time when t hove a joint venture

8 with the Sacaso groups.

9 Q The Sacosa groups were the finanCing people, were they

10 not?

By the way, Mr. Sacasa js olso dead, is he not? 11

12

13

14

15

A Yes, s1r, he is.

Q You were the contractor, were YOU not?

A I was the general contractor.

Q And the Socaso group was going to arrange for the

16 financing?

17 A Yes.

18 Q. There were four partners?


20 Q You, as the contracting group, Sacoso, Osorio, and

21 Herdocea. Is that correct?

22 A Herdocea. Yes, sir.

23 Q Were to YOU share equally in the proposal?

24 A 25 percent.

25 Q Each?

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Vol. 9-77

Padreda - Cross -

A Yes.

Q What I am asking YOU, sir~ is whether or not, on

September 30, 1982, the day yoU submitted your proposal,

4 while I understand YOU were in Texas, your wife, Jenette

5 Padreda. was the secretary to your corporation?

6 A I don't recall. Maybe she was at that time. I don't

7 know.

S Q What is her first nome?

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16

A I don't understand what your Question is.

Q What is your wife's first name?

A Jenette.

Q Is she a notary public?

A Yes she is.

Q Let me s~ow YOU Government's exhibit in evidence--

When the proposal was submitted. I am showing YOU

Government's Exhibit Number 106, the proposal, Hialeah

17 Housing Authority, Esperanza project. You remember this was

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

your proposal?

A Yes.

Q You recognize the book?

A Yes.

Q Let me show YOU page number 9, date stomped at the

bottom 204802, You testified YOU were in Texas on September

30, 1982, when this was submitted. Is that correct?

A Yes.

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Vol. 9-78

Podredo - Cross -

a Here is a place for your signature, and the signature of

Jenette Padreda, as secretary?

A Yes.

a Let me ask YOU a question, before yOU answer, please,

sir. Wos--is that the signature of your wife, Jenette

Padreda?

A That's correct.

a Is that document dated and subscribed and sworn to

before a notary public.

A Yes, sir.

a It swears that that person, Jenette Padreda, signed that

12 document on September 30, 1982, while YOU were in Texas, as

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14

15

16

17

18

19

20

a secretory of your corporation?

A Right. That's correct.

Q Does that refresh your recollection, possibly, that

Jenette Padredo was an officer of that company?

A That was secretary of the office of the corporation.

Q The secretory and officer of the corporation.

A I believe so.

Q While yOU were in Texas, sir, on September 30, 1982,

21 could yOU tell me, sir} how your wife swore to the fact that

22 you signed that document, on September 30, 1982?

23 A Th1s document was signed by myself 1n Texas, and sent

24

25

back to Federal Express the some day, and my wife come and

signed that document.

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Q That YOU had personally appeared before her~ and sworn,

and she affixed her notary signature?

A I don't recall that.

a You don't have to recall it. Look at it. It is in

evidence. Do YOU see, sir, your name there? Sincerely

yours, Camilo Padreda, General Contractors, Inc, by Camilo

Padreda, President, dote September 30, 1982?

A That's correct.

Q Do yOU see this, sir, subscribed and sworn before me,

this 30 day of September, 1982, my commission expires?

A Yes.

a Jenette Padreda.

A That's correct.

a Your wife?

A That's correct.

a Were YOU in Texas, or were YOU in Miami?

A According to this document, I was in Miami that day.

According to this document, I supposed to be 1n Miami when I

19 sign it.

20 Q That is why it is difficult eight years ago to be able

21 to determine where yoU are on a certain dote, at a certain

22 time, is it not?


24 a Taking that into account, sir, did YOU have on

25 opportunity to look through this proposal before it was

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Vol. 9-Padreda - Cross -

filed.

A I don't think I looked at the it, page by page.

1

2

3 Q r understand. But, certainly as the contractor, yOU

4 would be interested in what YOU were proposing?

5 A Yes, but also be aware, that one of my partners is in

6 charge to put it together--the bid.

7 Q Osorio?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Who YOU rely on?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Who yOU trust?

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13

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15

16

17

A Yes.

Q Who is a truthful and honest individual?

A Yes.

Q And who was present, I believe yOU told us, with Mr.

Sacosa when YOU told him the Mayor of Hialeah wanted

$150,000.

18 A To the best of my knowledge, he was there.

19 Q The proposal requires YOU to submit, what is known as 0

20 resume. Are YOU familiar with such a document?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q Did yOU submit such a resume, a long time ago?

23 A I believe it is there.

24 Q Have yOU had a chance to read it?

25 A No, I have not had a chance to read it right now.

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Vol. 9-81

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q Well, I mean in the last few days, has the Government

2 shown YOU this document in the last month or so. to let YOU

3 read it, to refresh your recollection?

4 A No.

5 Q You graduated from Havana Business University, in

6 Havana?

7 A Yes. I went there one year. To Havana Business

8 University. I don't SOy I was graduated,

9 Q I apologize if I attempted to mislead YOU. I did not

10 SOy that, It should SOy College of Havana Business

11 University.

12 A Yes.

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14

15

16

17

Q You were there a year?

A Yes.

Q There is the resume, sir.

A Yes. sir.

Q Do yoU want a copy to follow along? You can use this, I

18 will use my copy.

19 Q Before Castro took over in Cuba, yOU were in the

20 service, were yOU not?

21 A Yes.

22 Q In the service--actuollY in the special services. Were

23 yOU not in the Cuban Armed Forces?

24 A Yes.

25 Q You worked for the joint chiefs of staff, did you?

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Vol. 9-87. Padreda - Cross -

1 A Yes.

2 Q In the Army Intelligence Service?

3 A Yes.

4 Q You were an Aid to the Chief of General of Operations of

5 the Cuban Army?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q That is what the resume says?

8 A Yes, sir.

9 Q Were yOU also with B.R.A.T.--B-R-A-T?

10 A B.R.A.T. Yes, sir.

11 Q What 1s B.R.A.T?

12 A Bureau for the Refraction of Communist Activities.

13

14

Q That was a bureau that many Cubans, here in the United

States, are proud of--you were attempting to keep communism

15 down in Cuba, were YOU not?


17 Q You had a distinguished career with them.

18 A I believe so.

19 Q You were, in 1959, a strong, intelligent, honest man,

20 were YOU not?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q Taught by the Army?

23 A 1958.

24 Q 1958. You left in 1958?

25 A I left the beginning of 1959.

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Vol. 9-83

Padreda - Cross -

1

2

Q I did not know exactly, but it said 1952 to 1959 in your

resume.

3 A January 1st 1959.

4 Q 1958. What I mean, at thot time, YOU had been well

5 trained?

6 A Correct.

7 Q You had a formal education through high schoal l n year

8 of college. You were a young man. How old were YOU in '59?

9 A 26.

10 Q Something like that?

11 A 26.

12 Q You were forced, by the onslaught of communism and

13

14

15

16

Castro, to flee your country with your family and children.

A I wos left--- I left Cuba first in March, 17, 1958,

alone, through the Ecuador Embassy--through the Ecuador

Embassy, and then came to this country in May of 1959.

17 Q At that time YOU hod 3 children?

18 A At that time I had two children.

19 Q Two children in-between 1959 nnd 1964 YOU had a third?

20 A In 1961 I hove the third one.

21 Q From your second marriage, yOU had two other children?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q After leaving Cuba, as many Cubans had to do, YOU were

24 not a rich person, were you?

25 A No, I was not.

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1 Q You had to gO to work?

A Correct.

Q To support the children.

A Correct.

Vol. 9-84

2

3

4

5

6

Q You went to work in honest, industrious employment, did

YOU not?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q You went to work in a number of jobs. I think YOU told

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10

11

12

13

14

Mr. Chaykin YOU started working in a flower shop?

A That's correct.

Q I don't know that it is in Your resume.

A It is the missing day I was at the Everglades Flower

Shop working at December, 1961 until March, 1962. Its not

shown that--it is not related.

15 Q You hove a recollection, as yOU have just shown US1

for

16 dates 1 times, and places?

17 A Some. Yes.

18 Q Some?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And yoU worKed at other jobs to support your family

21 until. YOU finally got into the Trans American Investment

22

23

24

25

Corporation?

A That's correct.

Q That was right here in Miami. 28 West Flagler Street,

Suite 500, Miami, Florida?

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Vol. 9-85

Podreda - Cross -

A That's correct.

a You were vice-president in charge of construction work~

for layout to finish.

A That's correct.

a Prior to that time, had YOU learned on the job?

A Prior to that, 1968.

a You just did not pick that UP. You hod to hove some

8 time when yOU were dOing work and learning what yOU were

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11

12

13

14

15

16

17

doing, as yOU went along?

A Yes, sir. I learned in Cuba when I was 14, 15 years old

too, that I was working with my father in one of them.

a I am saYing that yOU learned through working?

A Yes, sir.

a And, YOU became a contractor, and in the 1972, YOU

formed Flamingo Development Corporation, did YOU not?

A Yes, sir.

a Between those two years, YOU were President and General

18 Contractor, in a11--in charge of all construction projects

19 built by that company?


21 a There were a number of contracts way bock, that is

22 twenty years 090, almost. You built 840,000 units. You

23 built a turnkey low rent housing project.

24 A I don't understand how YOU soy 840,000 units.

25 Q Probably because I misspoke. 23 Single family

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2

3

A Correct.

Q $840,000

Vol. 9-86

Podreda - Cross -

4 A $840,000. Okay, I am sorry, I understood 840,000

5 units.

6 Q You built the low rent project; 51 units in Hialeah,

7 Florida in 1971?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Total cost a million three hundred eighty thousand?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q You build 110 1 000 townhouses, Hendon Construction, West

12 79th Street and 8th Avenue, in Hialeah, Florida, did YOU

13

14

15

16

17

not?

A Yes, sir.

Q And it was during that time, sir, that you first met

Raul Martinez, He was a young boy, D young moo, twenty-one,

twenty-two years old?

18 A That's correct,

19 Q You were somewhat oider l eighteen, seventeen I eighteen/I

20 years older.

21 A Yes, sir,

22 Q As a matter of fact, the Mayor of Hialeah, in this

23

24

25

project, owned the project?

A That's correct.

Q And was Raul Martinez working as a broker at that time

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and olso running a newspaper?

Vo 1. 9-87

1

2

3

A I don't know if he was a broker, but he was running Q

newspoper.

4 Q But he introduced YOU to this project~ did he not?

5 A Yes.

6 Q He introduced YOU to the people?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q You subsequently got to build the project?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Did YOU pay him?

11 A No, he no ask for anything.

12 Q Not Quarter?

13

14

A Not a penny.

Q There are, on Page 204823, and, YOU have to look at the

15 bottom, on impressive list of other construction projects

16 YOU have hod between 1970 and 1980, are there not?

17 A Yes,

18 Q You built a lot?

19 A Yes.

20 Q You built successfully?

21 A Yes.

22 Q You were well respected?

23 A Yes, sir.

24 Q Were YOU not--yOU built good quality buildings; homes

25 whatever YOU had to build?

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Padreda - Cross -

A Yes, sir. 1

2

3

4

5

6

7

Q You Quilt them for the price YOU said YOU were gOing to

build them for?

A That's correct.

Q. You made money?

A That's correct.

Q Also, during that time, YOU were, were YOU not, engaging

8 in some political activities?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q Which we will get into.

11 THE COURT: Pick a convenient time in the next few

12 minutes.

13 MR. HOGAN: Which we will get into after lunch.

14

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16

THE COURT: Is this a good time?

MR. HOGAN: That's fine.

THE COURT: We will be in recess until one

17 o'clock. Don't discuss this matter among yourselves or nor

18 permit anybody to discuss it with YOu. Don't discuss the

19 matter among yourselves. Don't permit anybody to discuss it

20 with YOU in your presence. Don't read anything about this

21 matter in the newspaper, or television, or radio during this

22 recess period.

23 Don't form or express any opinion about the merits

24 of this case ot this time. The regular routine. Defense

25 counsel~ any additional requested instructions.

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Podreda - Cross -

MR. CHAYKIN: No.

MR. HOGAN: No.

THE COURT: We will be in recess until one

5 (LUNCH RECESS)

Vol. 9-89

6 Q Mr. Padreda, this morning YOU told us that the best YOU

7 recall, YOU were not under investigation until sometime in

8 November of 1989? Maybe I can refresh your recollection.

9 Is it a fact, sir, yOU hired an attorney, Mr.

10 Robert Josephsberg, before that time, because there was

11 extensive publicity concerning some of your transactions in

12 April of 1988?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q You Knew then, that some of YOur dealings, at least with

15 H.U.D, and with Sergio Pereira with the Porto Del Sol

16 $100,000 markup, so to speaK, were under investigation at

17 that time?

18 A What I see in the newspaper, What I read in the

19 newspaper. That's what I know.

20 Q It caused YOU to hire a criminal attorney?


22 THE COURT: Criminal defense attorney.

23 Q Criminal defense attorney?


25 Q That was in or about April of 1988 that investigation

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Vol. 9-90 Padreda - Cross -

1 that YOU learned of it. Prior to this time, Governor

2 Martinez, who YOU had supported with your work and with your

3 finances with your money, had been appointed to a state

4 position, had he not?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Do YOU recall now, when that was?

7 A I don't recall. At the beginning 1988 or late 1987.

8 Q Let me refresh your recollection, and see if yoU were

9 not a key fund, local fund raiser for governor Bob

10 Martinez's re-election campaign in 1986?

11 A No, I was not.

12 Q You were not?

13 A I was not.

14

15

16

17

Q Not a key fund raiser?

A Not a key fund raiser.

Q What does a key fund raiser mean?

A I was with the Tom Gallagher campaign, against Bob

18 Martinez.

19 Q Did Gallagher run in the run-off?

20 A No.

21 Q Who did Martinez run against?

22 A I guess the Democrat candidate.

23 Q You were a Republican at that time, were YOU not?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Yau had been a Democrat during the Carter

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Padredo - Cross -

1 Administration?

2 A I hod been Republican, my cord can show you since 1972.

3 Q Your what?

4 A '72 or '73.

5 Q You were not a supporter of the Democratic party of Jim

6 Corter for president?

7 A I support a person, not a party at that time. I will

8 support a person.

9 Q What I am saying to YOU is, that on March 16, 1986, did

10 not Martinez appoint YOU to a vacant seat on the state

11 construction industry licensing boord, which licenses and

12 distiplines state tontractors, and sets polities governing

13 the industry?

14 A What month?

15 Q March 16th?

16 A What year? 1970?

17 Q 1988.

18 A Yes.

19 Q You told us on--when the Government was Questioning yOU

20 a while ago, that yOU hod recently been--lost your

21 contractor's license, Camilo Padreda, Contractor.

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q And that waST YOU learned that, did YOU not, on December

24 20th, 1990?

25 A Did I lose any license in December 20?

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Vol. 9-92

Podreda - Cross -

1 Q December 20, 1990, the Metropolitan Dade County Florida

2 Boord, Building and Zoning Deportment issued, did they not,

3 a rule to show couse against you?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q 29, 30 counts?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Subsequent to that time, there was a hearing, was there

8 not?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Did yOU testify?

11 A No, sir.

12 Q After that hearing, they found YOU guilty on all counts,

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did they not?

A I don't think they find me guilty on all the counts.

15 Q How many out of the 30?

16 A I don't recall.

17 Q Do yOU recall whether it was two-thirds?

18 A I don't recall how many counts.

19 Q As a result of their findings, YOU lost your license?


21 Q You are now appealing?


23 Q Also, in April of 1988, yOU knew, did yOU not, that your

24 dealings with Mr. Delgado and lozer, NV and Renon Delgado

25 were under investigation?

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Vol. 9-93

Padreda - Cross -

1 A Yes, sir.

2 Q Prior to being indicted in Texas, did YOU know of the

3 investigation?

4 A What investigation?

5 Q You told us before. thot the Government indicted YOU on

6 November 2, 1982, in Texas?


8 Q Do YOU mean '86?


10 Q That was your testimony. What I am saying is, prior to

11 November 2nd, that YOU recall, did YOU know that YOU and Mr.

12 (ortiah and that is Gilliermo Hernandez Cartiah and Marcello

13 Hernandez were under investigation?

14 A Woo I was not informed that I was under investigation.

15 Q I understand YOU were not informed. I om asking YOU did

16 YOU know? I

17 A I don't know that I was under investigation.

18 Q As to the December 2nd date of the indictment, are YOU

19 sure of that dote?

20 A What day 1s it?

21 Q As the November second, 1982. YOU testified this morning

22 YOU were indicted--you will never forget that, will you?

23 A Yes.

24 Q You will never forget that. will you?

25 A No.

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Podredo - Cross -

Q You will never forget that date?

A No. I hove never.

Vo]. 9-94

Q Let me show YOU a copy of the indictment filed on

November 9, 1982. See if that refreshes your recollection?

A Yes.

Q The indictment was filed November 9, 1982, not November

2nd, wos it? November ninth was the date of the evaluation

committee meeting. Do YOU recall that, or do yOU know what

I am talking about?

A I don't know what you're talKing about.

Q You do agree with me, do yOU not, that the indictment in

Texas was filed November 9th, 1982?

A I am pretty sure it was November 2. I don't know. I

have the second in my mind. The file was November, but the

sealed indictment was November 2nd, or whatever it was. I

don't know.

Q How did YOU know there was a sealed indictment?

A I was informed when I get in Texas that there was

19 November 2nd when the indictment.

20 Q But yOU did not get into Texas until November eleven?

21 A I don't recall the date, but I went to Texas the day

22 after--two days after the indictment.

23 Q Two days after the indictment was unsealed?

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A Correct.

Q Two days after yOU learned of the indictment?

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A A hum. 1

2 Q And. that was November 9th, was it not, when it was

3 filed in Court?

4 A November 9th.

5 Q Yes.

6 Q What were YOU indicted for?

7 A I don't hear you.

8 Q What were YOU indicted for?

9 A Embezzlement and conspiracy to embezzle the money from

10 the bonk.

11 Q Were you indicted for misapplication of bonk funds,

12 Title 18 United States Code, Section 657, in a conspiracy to

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misapply bank funds?

A Whatever it say in the indictment, was.

Q You don't recall?

A I don't recall.

Q Do YOU recall when it appeared in the newspopers, in

Miami, that yOU were indicted?

A The day after the indictment, I was in Texas.

20 Q Was it the day yOU were arrested?

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A When YOU say arrested?

Q I mean, yOU surrendered yourself, did YOU not?

A That's correct.

Q You still had to go in get your picture taken?

A That's correct.

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Vol. 9-96

Padredo - Cross -

Q Let me show YOU a doted article from the Miami Herold.

See if YOU can identify that as betng the article that was

3 published, here in Miami, that YOU are talking to when it

4 became known in Miami?

5 A Yes, sir.

6 Q That article was printed on November 11, 1982. Thursday

7 November 11, 1982.

8 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.

9 THE COURT: Objection to the form of the Question,

10 if it was in the form of a Question.

11 MR. HOGAN: I ask the Government to stipulate to

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the dote.

Q Compare this with the article YOU had. See if it is the

same article.

A Yes.

Q Does that refresh YOur recollection? It was two days

after the indictment, November 11, 1982?

A Yes, sir.

Q This come as a complete surprise to YOU, did it not?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q This was, according to your testimony, sometime after

22 YOU hod discuss $150,000 with the Mayor of Hialeah, Mayor

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Raul Martinez. was it not?

A That's correct.

Q Did YOU call the Mayor and soy. "J have been indicted?"

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Vol. 9-97

Padreda - Cross -

1 A I don't recall I called anybody.

2 Q Did YOU get in touch with him at that time?

3 A I don't recall.

4 Q Did YOU attempt, ot all, to get in touch with him?

5 A I don't recall.

6 MR. CHAYKIN: Could we have those two items marked

7 for identification?

8 Q Did yOU think that would affect your Fsperanza Project,

9 or your Texas projects at all--you being indicted for

10 misapplication of bonK funds, and conspiracy?

11 A At that time of the indictment, I know for sure I was

12 not guilty of anything.

13 Q I understand. You told us. What I am saying, sir, is

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sometimes Federal Grand Juries indict innocent people. You

were one of them, were YOU not?

A I think so.

17 Q Okay. What I om saying is, even though yoU were

18 innocent, they indicted yOU. The mere fact that the

19 indictment costs some doubts on your character, did it not?

20 A Can be.

21 Q Yes. That is whot I am talking about. As of November 9

22 and November II, 1982, yoU had projects gOing in Texas, YOU

23 hod bank loans, and YOU hod a proposal for this Esperanzo

24 project, government's Exhibit 106, that was filed?

25 A Yes, sir.

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Padreda - {ross -

Q Did YOU have any idea that that might affect your

dealings with H.U.D, or that might affect your dealings with

financing institutions, or that indictment might affect your

credit?

A I don't think so, because, first of all, in order to

affect me. they have to be find me guilty, and that was my

recollection at that time.

Q There is no H.U.D. regulation if YOU are under in

indictment?

A I don't know. It was--if it was a H.U.D. regulation, if

I was indicted from that.

Q It did not affect your YOU at al]?

A An affect my life.

Q No, affect your credit.

A No. My credit--my credit was not affected at all.

a Did your wife have to resign from the board of directors I

of a bonk?

A My wife was resigned from the board of directors to the

bank because she no like the way it was conducted the loans

at the bank, and ---may I finish?

Q Certainly.

A And she send a letter or talked to the Chairman of the

Boord of the Bank, and told the Chairman of the Boord that

the way they was conducting the loans to personal friends of

the owner of the bank, that she no like it. And for that

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reason, she resigned. 1

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I don't recall she resigned before or after that

indictment.

4 Q Do YOU recoIl in the letter your attorney wrote Mr.

S Marty Steinberg.

6 MR. CHAYKIN: I object. I object to the form of

7 the question.

8 THF COURT: I hod not heard 0 question yet.

9 Q At that time were YOU represented, the time YOU went to

10 get your record expunged by Marty Steinberg of Holland and

11 Knight? Do YOU recall?

12 A It was in 1984. But not in '82. In 1982 I hove a

13 lawyer in Texas; not in Miami.

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Q He got YOU into the pretrial diversion?

A That is correct.

Q You went through pretrial diversion?


18 Q Subsequent to that time the indictment was dismiss?


20 Q Then YOU moved to expunge your record?

21 A Then I hired Marty Steinberg to present it--to expunge.

22 Q Of Holland and Knight?

23 A Yes.

24 Q He is the one who filed Government's Exhibit 82, The

25 Petition for Expungement of the record?

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Vol. 9-100

Padreda - Cross -

A That's correct.

a Prior to this time, do YOU recall receiving a letter -

he spoke for yoU, did he not? You hired him to speak for

4 YOU in this matter to expunge your record.

5 A In Texas?

6 Q Yes.

7 A Yes. He was there.

8 a What I mean is, YOU are the one who went and hired him

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as your lawyer.

A I hired him as my lawyer.

Q To speak for YOU, and do the work in Texas?

A To do the work,

Q To get the records?

A That's correct.

a In that regard, I am asking yOU if YOU recall him

submitting 0 letter to the Court, a copy to YOU, wherein, he

was telling the Court the indictment had affected YOU, by a

bonk asking your wife to resign from the Board of Directors.

A I believe that happened.

a Hod YOU told him that?

21 A I believe my wife talked to him.

22 a Did he also SOy in that letter that officials in Hialeah

23 had told yOU yOU could not, sir, get a project with H.U.D.

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of about $5,000,000 because YOU had been indicted?

A I no longer recall that as specific.

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Vol. 9-101

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q You'do recall, do YOU not, prior to the Fxpungement

2 Motion that he fl1ed--the motion Marty Steinberg filed?

3 A I don't recall that.

4 Q You don't recall the motion that was shown?

5 A I don't recall. I don't recall the motion. If YOU show

6 me.

7 Q Here is Government's Exhibit number 82, that I showed

8 YOU this morning?

9 A May I read it.

10 Q Certainly.

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MR. CHAYKIN: I object to the use of pleadings

13 that we turned over pursuant to this Court's order that were

14 ordered expunged and sealed. He is using letters and other

15 documents, the original purpose of turning them over. The

16 document was because the defense felt there was some type of

17 plea agreement, cooperotion agreement that resulted in the

18 dismissal of this indictment, so we turned 1t over.

19 This Court ordered all the pleadings pertaining to

20 that there was an agreement pretrial diversion agreement

21 that answered the defendants Question with respect to any

22 benefits that this individual received from the Government.

23 Now they wont to go in and cross-examine him on

24 pleadings filed by his attorney, representations made by his

25 attorney in that process, letters written by his attorney

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Vol. 9-102

Padreda - Cross -

1 and perhaps written by other people.

2 In that process--I object to it. There was on

3 order, Court order sealing those documents. It is a

4 collaterial matter. It contains representations mode by

5 other individuals. I think it goes way beyond. I

6 introduced the order of expungement. It addresses the

7 irrelevant issue of any other agreement.

8 If they want to talk to him about the merits of

9 the indictment or lack of merits, that is one of the things

10 to gO into the pleadings that were ordered by the trial

11 Court. I think it is improper. It is collateral and

12 irrelevant to the cross examination of this individual.

MR. HOGAN: Not only did they open it up, this is 13

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a letter by his agent hired to do this material. If I have

pleadings, the agent filed the latter.

His attorney sent the letter to him. He makes a

statement in the letter, Mr. Padreda was advised by

officials of the City of Hialeah that neither he nor his

19 company could be considered for a $5,000,000 project by

20 which Mr. Padreda hod an opportunity to obtain due to the

21 pending nature of the charges against him.

22 Those charges were filed November 9. This letter

23 is based and sent to Mr. Padreda prior to the expungement

24 motion, because Mr. Steinberg asked in a motion on October

25 12, 1983; it is a prior written statement.

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Vol. 9-103

Padreda - Cross -

He filed an official proceeding to where the

United States AttorneY. his prior statement, just as any

3 agent. Furthermore, on the expulsion record, the motion to

4 dismiss the indictment was filed by the Government based

5 upon him completing the pretrial diversion; subsequent to

6 that document. The record was expunged in the pretrial

7 diversion records, they gave him, 1t says he accepted

8 responsibility.

9 This man stood in here and said he was 100 percent

10 innocent. I am not gOing into that, but he accepted

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responsibility for it in order to get it expunged, which 1s

a completely illegal order for the Government.

In their testimony they said they won't appeal

because there is no such thing. He has used the prior

15 statement in October of '83. He was saying the reason he

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lost it was because of the indictment.

MR. CHAYKIN: It is not his prior inconsistent

18 statement. It is not his statement. That is a statement

19 from his lawyer. A statement from his lawyer. It is not a

20 prior inconsistent statement; not only that; that is May of

21 '83, October of '83. Almost a full year after the event

22 took place.

23 These matters were ordered expunged and sealed.

24 The purpose, if he wonts to address the responsibility

25 aspect of this individual. taking responsibility for those

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1 actions persuant to the pretrial diversion, that is

2 appropriate, but to gO into pleadings, Your Honor, because

3 that was the purpose of opening UP the file. he is taking

4 the stand and it is appropriate inquiry; and everything else

5 in that file was considered expunged. The Government

6 represented to the District Court they had had certain

7 facts.

8 MR. HOGAN: You're talking about what somebody

9 else did. I moved for this material. I move it to be

10 unsealed. They said they were getting the file. They were

11 coming UP here and they told me when they got it, I don't

12 mind giving it to yOU, but I need an order from Judge Kehoe.

13 MR. CHAYKIN: That's correct. That was because of

14 possible material pertaining to the agreement he had with

15 the Government. They originally thought he had some type of

16 cooperation agreement with the Government. I think it is

17 inappropriate to cross-examine him on matters sealed.

18 THf COURT: I would hope yOU will not mOKe a big

19 tent out of it. Let's stay under the main tent.

20 MR. HOGAN: I have to show him. He did not

21 remember. I showed it to the Government. Then I went into

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expungement, so I can do something.

THE COURT: Get down to what yOU wont.

(SIDEBAR CONFERENCE CONCLUDED)

Q Do YOU recall yOU had on opportunity to read that, did

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1 you?

2 A Yes.

3 Q The Government refreshed your recollection with this

4 document before yOU were able to say that Motion for

5 Expungement was filed the 16th day of May, 1984, correct?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Prior to that time, Mr. Steinberg, on your behalf,

8 communicated with the Texas Court, and with the assistant

9 United states Attorney, Robert Burke. Do yOU remember Mr.

10 Burke?


12 Q Mr. Steinberg, if yOU recall, said that Mr. Padreda was

13 advised by officials of the City of Htaleah, that neither he

14 nor his company would be considered for a $5,000,000

15 project, which Mr. Padreda had an opportunity to obtain, due

16 to the pending noture of the charges against him. And he I

17 sent yoU a COpy of that letter. Do YOU recall that?

18 A No, but I would like to see it.

19 Q Certainly. The expungement was made May 16, 1984. This

20 letter is October 12, 1983. Can I ask YOU before I show

21 this, did yOU obtain in Hialeah, between December 13. 1982,

22 and October 12, 1983, or attempt to obtain any other

23 $5,000,000 contract?

24 A No, sir.

25 Q Let me show yOU this letter, October 12, 1983, if YOU

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Padreda - Cross -

look on the lost page, a copy goes to you?

A Yes} sir.

Q What I am saying} sir, is in October of 1983.

4 A Yes.

Vol. 9-106

5 Q There was Q letter sent to Texas} to get your record

6 expunged?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q Which contains the statement that yOU lost this project

9 in Hialeah, because YOU were indicted.

10 Did yOU tell your attorney that and, authorizing

11 him to tell the Court in the Southern District of Texas?

12 A I think Mr. Marty Steinberg was doing the research at

13 that time.

14 Q The research?

15 A Yes.

16 Q As port of his research} did he talk to you?

17 A He talked to me. I don't recall telling him

18 specifically that I was informed by the officiols of the

19 City of Hialeah that neither he or his company could be

20 considered for a $5}000,OOO project because that project was

21 already done in 1983.

22 Q I understand.

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A But 01so--1 don't finish yet. I do remember saying to

Mr. Steinberg that H.U.D. project in Dade County offiCial

had told me that because I have the pending this indictment,

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Vol.. 9-107

Padredo - Cross -

they would not consider me for any projects in the CitY--in

Dade County.

3 Q When did he tell YOU that, do yOU recall?

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A I don't recall, but it was after the indictment.

Q After YOU where are indicted?

A After I was indicted.

Q Now, YOU can tell us, without a question of a doubt,

that indictment hurt YOU with H.U.D, did it not?

A I believe that project was the City of Hialeah Housing

Authority.

a The man from H.U.n. told you?

A No man from H.U.D. told me. I don't know--maybe YOU-

Q I must have misunderstood YOU. Let me ask yOU this.

A H.U.D. of Dode County. Not H.U.D. in Hialeah.

Q H.U.D. of Dade County could not get a project?

A That's correct.

a What I am saying is, did yoU tell Mr. Steinberg, in

addition, that the officials in Hialeah told YOU yOU could

19 not get that project?

20 A I do not recall to tell Mr. Steinberg I said before that

21 specific, that was advised by officials in the City of

22 Hialeah, that neither he, nor his company would be

23 considered for a $5,000,000 project. Also, remember that my

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portner, we are trying to get a project for the carpet mill

in Hialeah. I don't recoIl if that is the project that Mr.

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Padreda - Cross -

Steinberg was talking about.

Q Your partner who?

A Mr. Alfredo Osorio and Mr. Alfred Sacasa.

4 Q In what year?

5 A 1983?

& Q Do you know the year?

7 A What.

8 Q Do YOU know the year?

Vol. 9-108

9 A Not specific, but 1t have to be between 1982 and 1983.

10 Q The problem iS I they were not your partners in Camilo

11 Padreda, contractors, were they?

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A I don't understand your question.

Q My question is: The contracting cDmpany that filed for

the Esperanza Company was Camilo Padreda Contractors.

A That's correct.

Q You were not their partners when they were trYing to get

17 the second project in Hialeah. You were not the partner.

18 A I no went to my portner?

19 Q You don't recall making this statement?

20 A I don't recall making this statement to soy that

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specific Esperanza project was no issued or was not given to

me because thot--- I don't recall. I don't recall that.

Q Okay. You do recall YDU received a copy of the letter?

A I presume that I received a copy of the letter.

Q You were pretty interested in this, were yOU not?

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Vol. 9-109

Padreda - Cross -

1 A I supposed to be very interested in that.

2 Q So. if that was wrong YOU would have called Mr.

3 Steinberg and said that. hey. that was wrong. Change it?

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MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.

THE COURT: Objection sustained. Go to your next

6 series of questions.

7 Q Did you accept responsibility for the acts that were

8 charged in the indictment in order to get pretrial

9 diversion?

10 A No. I have not. To the best of my knowledge, I was not

11 plead guilty to that.

12 Q I did not soy YOU did. I said, did yoU accept

13 responsibility?

14 A I accept the responsibility to pay bock the bonk

15 whatever money was left to pay it.

16 Q And yOU did?

17 A Yes, sir.

18 Q I am asking YOU, sir. on August 11, 1983, in the

19 Southern District of Texas. YOU signed on agreement for

20 pretrial diversion where yOU said YOU would accept

21 responsibility for the acts. Title 18. United States Code,

22 Section 371 conspiracy. ond 657. misapplication of bank

23 funds?

24 A I signed that paper, sir.

25 Q Did yOU sign it? Did YOU read it?

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A I presume I read it when I sign it.

Vol. 9-110

Q Let me show YOU Defendant's Exhibit Number 37, for

identification. See if that is your signature on that

document, and YOU recall signing that document.

A This is my signature.

Q By signing the document, accepting responsibility for

those two charges, was it your understanding that yoU were

accepting responsibility to pay back the money?

A That was the advice of my attorney, in Texas, at that

time.

Q Before YOU got Mr. Steinberg?

A Before I have Mr. Steinberg.

Q Do YOU recall the indictment against YOU was dismissed

on February 27th, 1984, and a motion was filed on that

date--strike that. Do YOU recall that the Government filed

a motion to dismiss your indictment on February 27, 1984,

based upon your completion of pretrial diversion?

A Yes.

Q Even before your record was to be expunged, the

Government through Robert Burke, Assistant United States

Attorney, agreed to give YOU a letter, did they not, stating

that it is not the intent of pretrial diversion to incumber

Mr. Padreda's activity to enter into civil contracts with

any branch of the United States Government. Do yOU remember

that?

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Padreda - Cross -

A Yes, I believed that. Yes, I believed that. I remember

that letter.

Q I meon, they were trying to put YOU whole as of August

11, 1983. were they not? By putting yoU whole, I mean toke

5 care of any problems YOU might have with H.U.D. or with your

6 banks?

7 A I don't understand very well, your question. Would yOU

8 repeat it. I would appreciate it.

9 Q Can YOU tell me, sir, if YOU were having problems--that

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is, because of the indictment, even though yoU were in

pretrial diversion, YOU were having problems dealing with

the Government. dealing with H.U.D?

A Yes, sir.

Q The Government attempted to solve those problems by

15 giving yOU a letter. did they not?


17 Q Did YOU request thot letter. through your attorney.

18 because of the problems yOU were having?

19 A I have a call to talk to my lawyer and tell I have some

20 problems.

21 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE)

22 MR. HOGAN: I did not wont to into this document

23 because it comes out on the records. It is a very ticklish

24 type of thing to gO into, unless I know it is actually true;

25 it is the signature of the Assistant United States Attorney.

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Vol. 9-11~

Podredo - Cross -

And I have not been able to corroborate this information.

The reason I brought the Government up, I did not think it

was to start doing something, unless I ask him to refer to

this. I would ask they find out from me if, in fact] this

was a motion made and filed by the Government to check on

the mental competency prior to this time.

MR. CHAYKIN: Your Honor] I don't know anything

about it.

MR. HOGAN: You gave it to me.

MR. CHAYKIN: I know I gave it to him. I assumed

it was 0 certificate of service after the pleading that was

attached. I think that was attached to a pleading that was

filed. It hod nothing to do with mental incompetency. It

was a mistake. I called UP Mr. Bird. It is the first time

I learned of any mental incompetency issue.

MR. HOGAN: These were in the pleadings.

THE COURT: Did this come from the file?

MR. HOGAN: They are saying it came from the

paCKage I gave them. Was it in the file that was expunged?

MR. CHAYKIN: I have to toke a look.

THE COURT: Was it in the file?

MR. CHAYKIN: I believe that was in the file. T

have to toke a look. I turned it over as port of the files

that was expunged.

MR. HOGAN: We can solve the problem if YOU find

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Vol. 9-113 Padredo - Cross -

1 Qut for me.

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MR. CHAYKIN: I will check on it. I will ask if

that was a mistake, in an attempt to have it certified. I

4 know nothing about it.

S THE COURT: Hold off on it. If we need to. we

6 will call him bock.

7 MR. CHAYKIN: This is the complete attachment that

8 I gave to defense counsel. You will see Government's

9 response to defendants request for expungement. It is

10 submitted. I did not look at it, the certificate of

11 service. True ond correct copy. Apporently it is a mistake

12 because what they say here is a motion to commit defendant.

13 I think what they are referring to is the

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certificate of service of this motion. I will gO ahead and

verify it, but I think it is a mistake. I think this gives

16 some prospective to the Court.

17 MR. HOGAN: If they check and say it did not

18 happen, fine.

19 MR. CHAYKIN: I wanted to clarify it.

20 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE CONCLUDED)

21 Q In order to get the expungement, did YOU solicit letters

22 from your friends in the Miami area to write letters as to

23 your character and trustworthiness and honesty and

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integrity?

A Yes.

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1 Q Has the Government given YOU a chance to look at those

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letters, prior to testifYing here today?

A Yes.

Q Those people that YOU had write letters for YOU were

5 members of the business community here?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q There were a number of very prominent people who

8 attested to your creditibility?

9 A Yes.

10 Q They attested to your honesty, integrity and community

11 activities?


13 Q Therefore~ according to the community, as of October of

14 1984. YOU had an impecoble reputation. even though YOU had

15 been indicted. Would yoU say that is true?

16 A I would say so.

17 Q Mr. Padreda~in 1984 your record is mode whole. Do yoU

18 recall, sir--by record made whole, I mean, they wipped out

19 your record. They allowed you. by that order of the Court.

20 to say if anybody asked yOU if yOU were ever arrested or

21 under indictment or charged. YOU could say no honestly,

22 without fear of perjury. Is that correct?


24 Q That happened in 1984. Now, did there come a time, sir,

25 when YOU found out that the Government had YOU under serious

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1 investigation and were ready to indicte you in Miami? I am

2 talking about 1990. I am not talking about '84. Do YOU

3 understand my question?

4 A No. I don't understand your Question.

5 Q You don't understand?

6 A No.

7 Q In the latter port of 1989, November, December, January,

8 '90, through the time YOU finally plead pursuant to the plea

9 agreement on September 26th, I believe yOU signed the plea

10 agreement, 1990, during that time YOU knew YOU were under

11 intensive investigation, were YOU not?

12 A You're talking about '84 or talking after '84? Maybe I

13 don't understand your Question.

14 Q I understand. I am talking about this dote. I am

15 talking about November 1989 to the dote yOU signed the plea

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agreement that

A I was

Q Which was

A 1990.

Q I have to

I can't tell.

A 26th.

Q 1990?

A 1990.

Q What I am

the Government showed you.

September.

find your signature. September 25th or 26th.

Which is it?

saying is: Between November 1989 and

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September 26th~ 1990, during this period of time you hired,

had YOU not, first Bob Josephsberg, and then subsequently

YOU hired Sam Robin to represent your interests in talking

to the Government of the United States?

A That's correct.

a You hod told the Government yOU did not wont anything to

7 do with a plea; YOU would not sign any plea agreement; YOU

8 were not guilty of anything. If they would indict yOU, HgO

9 ahead; indict me. I will go to trial. H

10 A That's right.

11 a There come a time during this period, did there not,

12 sir, when the Government told yoU that they were

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investigating your daughter?

A let me clarify, The Government not told me anything.

15 The Government sent a letter to my daughter's lawyer, Mark

16 Hilderbrandt, that my doughter is a target of the

17 investigation.

18 That is the way that I learned that my daughter

19 was a target of the investigation.

20 Q That was a great shock, was it not?

21 A Yes, it was.

22 a Do you recall when that was?

23 A No, I don't recall exactly when it was.

24 a Was it after the Mayor of Hialeah was indicted and

25 suspended in April of 1990?

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A Yes.

a You hod not been indicted, but yOU found out that in

addition to YOU the Government sent your daughter a target

letter?

A That's correct.

a That target letter--her name is Morto Iglesias. Please

spell the last name.

A I-g-I-e-s-i-a-s.

Q Was close to YOU, was she not?

A My daughter?

a Yes, She was emotional and excited. She hod some

problems, herself?

A Yes.

a It caused her great emotional concern, did it not?

A Yes.

a Which she told YOU about over a number of months?

17 A Many years.

18 Q Since she got the target letter, that really affected

19 her?

20 A Yes.

21 a It affected your relationship with her?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q ~ot your love for her, but it was very difficult. She

24 was continually after you, Hdaddy, YOU have to get me out of

25 this. I did not do anything. You have to get me out of

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this."

Is that correct?

A She was talking to me many, many times.

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Q Even though YOU were willing to fight, willing to try to

prove your innocence--

6 A Yes, sir.

7 Q --That over come YOU, did it not?

8 A Sure.

9 Q That target letter to your doughter?


11 Q That wos the reason, the promise that the Government

12 gave to yOU and your plea agreement, that they would not

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indict your daughter, that yoU ended UP agreeing to

cooperate with the Government, did yoU not?

A That's correct.

Q That was all finally--- By the way, YOU were in Q

17 terrible emotional state, yourself, prior to this plea

18 agreement. You called a number of your friends. You told

19 them what the Government was doing to you. You broke down,

20 crYing on the telephone with them?

21 A Occasionally.

22 Q Had that not happened, sir, YOU would have let them

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indict YOU and yOU would have gone to trial, would YOU not?

A Yes.

Q Because at that time, sir, before they said your

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Vol. 9-119

Padredo - Cross -

1 daughter was a target, YOU did not think YOU were guilty,

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did you?

A I never think my daughter was guilty.

Q You did not think YOU were guilty either?

A I don't think I WQS guilty at that time, no.

Q You really don't think YOU are guilty today. You think

7 YOU only made a technical violation?

8 A r think I guilty because I make a violation, did not

9 sign the papers that was presented to the Government.

10 Q Technical violation?

11 A Technical violation. Conspiracy violation. I am no

12 legal attorney to give yOU the legality of the word, but I

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was guilty to sign the paper and to make a false statement.

Q Prior to signing the plea agreement that the Government

has marked Government's Exhibit 83. on September 26th. 1990.

YOU had not, yourself, sat down with these prosecutors; the

FBI or any agent and told them any story. under oath. had

18 you?

19 A No.

20 Q This plea agreement was arranged between your lawyer

21 Samuel Robin, and the Government, correct?


23 Q Pursuant to that plea agreement, instead of going before

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a Grand Jury, presenting evidence and having an indictment

returned, yOU agreed to waive that procedure and let them

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just file on information charging YOU with two felonies, did

YOU not?

A Yes.

Q You agreed to plead guilty, did yoU not?

A Yes, sir.

Q As part of the plea agreement YOU signed, sir, the

Government agreed not to prosecute the defendant Camilo

Padreda's daughter, Marto Iglesias for any offense based

upon information of which it is now aware, correct?

A Yes.

Q As long os YOU performed pursuant to the plea agreement?

A I don't hear you.

Q As long as YOU performed pursuant to this plea

agreement--

A That's correct.

Q --She won't be indicted?


18 Q If YOU don't, it is open on season on her, is it not?

19 A I believe so.

20 Q In addition to your daughter--I don't mean to belabor

21 this part--was there ever a discussion about they did not

22 have to put in the plea agreement but they had no interest

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in indicting your wife? Do YOU recall at one time?

A I don't recall. I don't recall that, if anybody say my

wife would be target or indicted or anything. I don't

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Vol. 9-121

Padredo - Cross -

recall that.

Q In addition, the Government told YOU thot YOU were

3 pleading guilty to serious offenses that could corry a

4 maximum sentence of five years on each count; 0 total of 10

5 years?

6 A That's right.

7 Q When YOU filed this--when you signed the plea agreement

8 on September 26th, 1990, the Government also filed an

9 information, did they not~ against YOU, a COpy of which is

10 attached to the indictment?


12 Q COpy of some documents that yOU agreed to say were

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false?

A That's correct.

Q This plea agreement was filed~ was it not, in Court,

along with the information and YOU learned that when it was

17 filed along with the information~ actually filed the same

18 day, Government's exhibit number 83, filed September 26th,

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1990, when did yOU sign the plea agreement; sometime in the

morning, noontime?

A Two or three o'clock. I don't recall maybe one o'clock.

I would say between one and three.

Q This plea agreement was filed September 26th at 5:02.

And the information attached to that was filed September 26,

1990, and at 4:48 p.m, they filed the information and YOU

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Padreda - Cross -

found out for the first time yoU had Judge King, did YOU

not?

A That's correct.

Q The Chief Judge.

5 As a result of that. in order to enter the plea

o agreement. YOU had to go before Judge King, did YOU not?

7 A Yes.

8 Q You went before Judge King and plead guilty, did yoU

9 not?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Did your attorneY--striKe that.

12 When YOU got there, sir, YOU found out that Judge

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King, after putting YOU under oath, do yoU recall he said,

"raise your right hand and swear that the testimony yOU will

give is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth so

help YOU God?"

17 I don't mean he did it.

18 A Yes.

19 Q And yoU did. You found out Judge King--you had bad

20 luck --Judge King was not one of the Judge's that accepted

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plea agreements. That was one of the first times YOU found

that out?

A Yes.

Q All of 0 sudden YOU were standing there in Court before

this Judge talking about that 10 years and the plea

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Vol. 9-J23

Padreda - Cross -

1 agreement YOU hod. and that .Judge says, "I don't take plea

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agreements."

A That's correct.

Q And then did there come a time when these words were

asked of YOU, "all right, then let's move on to the second

paint; that is. as YOU well know, I am sure. they have told

7 YOU at the U.S. Attorneys Office I don't engage in or permit

8 plea bargains.

9 Hod not the United States Attorney told YOU that

10 or did YOU first learn that right there for the first time?

11 A Repeat that.

12 Q What I am saying is, so YOU got the picture right, this

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is actually when YOU were in Court. when YOU were actually

in Court was October 10. 1990. I have a transcript of that,

if YOU want to make sure.

A October 10.

Q October 10, 1990. Do YOU remember Andrew Rice was

there. Peter Outerbridge was there. Samuel Robin was with

19 YOU. Rice and Outerbrldge for the Government and Robin for

20 yourself. You were standing in front of the Court?

21 A Yes.

22 Q The Court told you that, I want YOU to know. I am sure

23 the Government told you. I don't take plea agreements. Was

24 that a shock to you?

25 A It was a shock to me at that moment. but I don't recall.

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Vol. 9-124

Padreda - Cross -

1 and this I want to clarify this. I don't recall, they asked

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the Government for any special--the only think t asked the

YOU United states Government was very specific and my only

4 concern is not prosecute my daughter.

5 Q I understand that. You told us that.

6 A I told that and that I hope that the Government w1l1

7 keep that.

8 Q You told that because that was the reason yoU agreed to

9 plead guilty?


11 Q It's the reason YOU agreed to enter a plea?

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A Yes, sir.

Q Do yOU recall the Judge asking yOU, sir, while yoU were

under oath, first reading from page 18; Htell me--Hthe Judge

speoking--"what promises have been made to this mono

Someone relate all this litany."

A I don't have the page 18.

Q That is not the transcript.

A Okay.

Q I was going to ask YOU if YOU remember the words.

A You tell me to read it?

Q I was going to ask YOU if yOU remembered the words.

A I remember seeing something.

Q That was October 10, 1990. That is not very long ago.

A I don't recall exactly what word by word.

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Padreda - Cross -

Q I will show it to YOU.

A Okay. Page 18?

Q Yes.

4 A Yes, sir.

5 Q Do YOU see on page 17 the Court makes a speech?

6 A Paragraph--line 14?

Vol. 9-125

7 Q Yes. Line 9. HAll right. Let's move to the second

8 point."

9 He tells YOU. HI don't take plea agreements."

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Are YOU looking at 17?

A ~o. I look at 18.

Q You have to look back at 17 when the Court talks.

A All right.

Q All right?

A Yes.

Q Let's move to the second point; that is, YOU well know.

I am sure they told YOU at the United States Attorneys

18 Office, I don't engage in or permit plea bargains, so yoU

19 have something here talking about a plea agreement. You

20 have filed it in writing and filed it in the Court file.-

21 Do you remember him saying that?

22 A Yes.

23 Q uYou filed the plea agreement here and everybody signed

24 1t. It 1s very pretty, and I do not pay any attention to

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Padreda - Cross -

Do you remember him telling YOU that?

A Yes.

Q Let me ask you. sir. Hwithout any regard to any

Vol. 9-126

4 agreement do YOU wont to plead guilty?H

5 Then he says. "YOU may want to ask your lawyer

6 about this. It takes 3 parties to any such agreement. The

7 two of YOU and the Court and I don't permit my hands to be

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tied on what I feel is an appropriate sentence."

Do I read too fast?

A I think so. What line are YOU talking now?

Q 21. HI don't permit my hands to be tied---"

A Now you're talking the next page. no? 21 say what I

feel is the appropriate sentence renders or given.

Q Correct. Two of YOU and the Court," I don't permit my

hands to be tied on what I feel is the appropriate sentence

to render in Q given situation, except as maybe set forth in

the low and under the guilelines l do YOU see that?

A Yes.

Q On the next page, line 6, he says, the Court says, the

20 Chief Judge, Judge King says, "tell me what promises have

21 been made to this man. Someone relate all this litany of

22 promises. H

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What promises have YOU gotten from Mr. Rice, the

United States Attorney who was there, with Mr. Outerbridge.

another U.S. Attorney said, Hif I may point out one item of

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many documents YOU refer to as the plea agreement, that was

tn the file---"

MR. CHAYKIN: I object to reading this.

T~E COURT: Sustained.

MR. HOGAN: I will ask him specially--

BY MR. HOGAN:

Q Do YOU recall, sir, your counsel, YOU were standing

there, to give a voluntary plea? Your counsel was asking,

"have yoU been promised anything to entice yOU or to get to

yoU plead guilty?"

A Yes.

Mr. Robin said, "no, Your Honor."

Do yOU recall that?

Q But yOU hod been promised something that YOU hod plead

guilty. You were promised your daughter would not be

indicted?

A What I was talking about any other thing that was not in

18 this paper. Any other promise that was done in this paper.

19 Q You never told the Judge about that.

20 A I am sorry. The only thing that I was talking, my

21 ottorney--on the advice of my attorney, my attorney told me

22 that it was in reference to any other agreement not in this

23 paper. I SOy, no, it was not any other agreement.

24 Q Then when the Court asked yOU, sir, Hare YOU under the

25 impression yOU have been promised anything, anything to get

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you to plead guilty," on page 19. bottom of 19. "are you

under the impression you were promised anything to get YOU

to plead guilty?"

You soid, no.

5 A Yes. si r. I say, no.

6 Q Your understanding then---

7 A I say no.

g Q Your understanding was YOU still had a deal with the

9 Government thot your daughter would not be indicted?


11 Q ~ut the Judge had not been clear to YOU; yoU did not

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understand?

A I don't know if I understand now.

Q Your your lawyer told yoU to answer no, sir?

A That's correct.


THE COURT: Objection sustoined.

Q Immediately after October 10. 1990. when you entered

your pleo, the Judge gave yOU, did he not, a not1ce that YOU

were going to be sentenced on December 18, 1990?

A That's correct,

Q Between October 10, 1990, when YOU plead and December

18, 1990, YOU had not testified in any triol, had you? Do

YOU understand me?

A Say it ogoin, if YOU don't mind.

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Vol. 9-129

Padreda - Cross -

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a September 26th is the dote YOU say YOU signed the plea.

Do YOU understand?

3 A Yes.

4 Q October 10, 1990, is the day you plead; YOU went in

5 before the Judge and YOU actually said YOU were guilty?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Do YOU recall that?

8 A Yes.

9 a Between that dote, the Judge then said, "YOU come bock

10 for sentencing on December 1B, 1990."

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15

December of last year; 7 days before Christmas,

did he not?

A That's correct.

a What I am saying, sir, between these two dotes, October

10. 1990. to December 18, 1990. YOU had not testified in any

16 trial, hod you?

17 A When yoU SQY triol---

18 a Like YOU are doing today.

19 A No in trial.

20 Q This is a trial, with a jury?

21 A No.

22 Q You hod, however, between October 10th and December 18th

23 testified before a grand jury or two grand juries or 3 grand

24 juries?

25 A Yes.

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Padreda - Cross -

Q How many grand jury's did YOU testify before?

A One,

Q Just one?

A Yes,

Q And have yOU talked to the Federal Bureau of

Investigation.

Vol. 9-130

A If I talked to the agents of the Federal Bureau of

Investigation?

Q Did yOU sit down with them in a room and they asked you

Questions?

A Sure.

Q You answered the Questions?

A Under oath, yes,

Q How many times hod yOU done that?

A I don't recall. Three, four times.

Q long periods of time, four or five hours at a time?

A Two or three hours,

Q Two or three hours?

A I don't recoIl. More than four hours.

Q Four hours total?

A At the most, four hours. A day,

Q How many days?

A Three or four, I cannot tell yoU exactly how many days,

Q One grand jury?

A Let's soy four.

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Q Four days?

A 12 hours.

?adreda - Cross -

Q 12 hours with the Government, right?

Vol. 9-131

4 A With the Government and my lawyer.

5 Q And Mr. Robin?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Sitting in 0 room where they asked YOU Questions; they

8 kept notes. Your lawyer was there to protect your rights.

9 You can ask him Questions if YOU wished?


11 Q However, YOU have not been sentenced as of yet, have

12 you?

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A No.

a Your lawyer filed a motion to continue the sentence, did

he not?

A That's correct.

Q However, YOU wanted to be sentenced. You wanted to get

it over with, did yOU not? YOU wanted to get it over with

on December 18, 1990, did yOU not?

A Yes.

a You wonted to know what this Judge would give yOU; that

your lawyer and the Government said, Hlet's wait until

after.H



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Vol, 9-137

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q Was there another reason that the sentence was

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continued? Did the Government want to wait until YOU

testified against this man?

A I don't think the Government asked me for any delay or

5 request for continuance or whatever YOU call it. My lawyer

6 advised me he was under big hearing or trial in Orlando,

7 that he was not prepared; that he don't have enough letters

8 and papers and also at the pretrial investigation.

9 Q Presentence investigation?

10 A Presentence investigation. Have become with the wrong

11 numbers about everything. He want to have CPA's and 01] the

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documents prepared before the sentence.

Q For the sentence?

A Before the sentence,

Q Correct. What is your sentence date as of now?

A February 18 or 20 something; 20 I believe it is.

Q 1991?

A 1991.

Q At the time of your sentencing, the Government has

20 agreed, under the plea agreement, have they not, to gO

21 before the Court, and to inform the Court of how helpful yOU

22 were to them.

23 A I believe it is in the agreement.

24 Q Isn't that what they said they will do?

25 A I don't recall exactly what he say they would do, but it

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Padredo - Cross -

1 is in the poper what they going to do.

2 Q Do YOU have the plea agreement before YOU there?

3, A Yes.

4 MR. HOGAN: The Government marked this for

5 identification. I would move the plea agreement under 61?

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MR. CijAYKIN:

THE COURT:

MR. HOGAN:

THE COURT:

I hove no objection.

Did YOU have tt premarked?

8 I believe.

8 is received.

(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 8 RECEIVED)

MR. HOGAN: I move in the transcript of the

sentencing under 106.

MR. CHAYKIN: That we would object to.


Q Look at porograph 8.

A What page?

Q Paragraph 8 is on poge four.

A Yes.

Q Do YOU see that?

A I read it.

Q You can read it out loud because is in evidence now.

Read it out loud.

A United States agreed it will afford the Court and

24 probation deportment at the time of the defendant's sentence

25 of the natural extent of the defendant, Camilo Padreda,

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Vol. 9-134

Podreda - Cross -

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corporation with the Government. And will favorably

characterize the characterization as appropriate.

The United States further agreed to inform any

4 Court enforcement agency, Government department of or

5 agency, Government, commission or any other Government

6 entity of the nature and extent of the defendant corporation

7 should the defense request that such a disclosure be mode.

8 Q Do yOU know what that means?

9 A Yes, sir.

10 Q What does it mean?

11 A That I request them to appear in the front of the Court

12 the day by the sentence; they have to tell the truth of

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whatever I have done.

Q Does it say and they will favorably characterize the

same as such a characterization is appropriate?

A If appropriate.

Q And do they also say should yoU get any jail time, they

18 will inform the appropriate authorities of your cooperation?

19 Do yOU understand that the Bureau of Prisons---

20 A I don't read that.

21 Q You don't understand that? You did not understond that

22 part?

23 A No. If I have---

24 Q If yOU gO to Jail.

25 A Yes.

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1 Q They will inform the appropriate authorities of your

2 cooperation, that being---

3 A Is that the page over here? Can I read it?

4 Q Yes. The United States further agrees to inform any

5 Court law enforcement agency, Government department or

6 agency, Government commission or other Government entity of

7 the nature and extent of the defendant's cooperation, should

8 the defendant request such disclosure. That means the

9 parole deportment.

10 A Okay.

Q Bureau of Prisons, that type, or H.U.D.?

A A hum.

Q Or your banks?

A A hum.

Q As part of the plea agreement that yOU signed, sir, did

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16 nDt YOU sign and agree along with the Government, page 6, I

17 am reading, in order to effectively---Do yOU see paragroph

18 14 on poge 6?

19 A Yes.

20 Q In the plea ogreement, Government's Exhibit number 82,

21 in order to effectively allow the defendant the opportunity

22 to provide the fullest amount of assistance to law

23 enforcement possible. Do yOU see that?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Thus to benefit as a result of the some to the fullest

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extent; do YOU see that?

A That's correct.

Vol. 9-136

a All parties to this plea agreement request the Court

defer sentencing as to such time as the defendant's

assistance has been substantially completed. Do yoU know

what that meant?

A Yes, sir.

a What did that mean?

A That I have to be ot the hearing when they request it.

a They would request that yoU not be sentenced until YOU

finished all your cooperation. Is that correct?

A I was not under that impression. I was under the

impression I will be sentenced on December 18 when I signed

this agreement.

a That is because the Court did not gO along. This

agreement was not before the Court?

A That's correct.

a The Judge said YOU are coming in December 18?

A That's correct.

a The agreement said YOU would agree that YOU did not wont

to be sentenced, and you would not be sentenced until after

you testified against all these people.

Do yOU understand?

A That's correct.

Q As of right now, the ax is hanging over your head. You

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Padreda - Cross -

have not been sentenced, have you?

A Correct.

Vol. 9-137

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3 Q The Case Delago Project, sir, was the project that was

4 the subject of your subsequent plea of guilty; do YOU recall

5 that?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q That was based, was it not, on documents selected---

8 Strike that.

9 Did you have anything to do with selecting what

10 count yoU would plead to, or was that done by your attorney

11 and the Government?

12 A My attorney and the Government.

13 Q You did not particularly care what counts you plead to

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as long as yOU know what your maximum sentence would be and

that your daughter would not be there with you?

A I did not care about anything; Just about my daughter.

Q Is that as YOU feel today?

18 A That is how I feel forever.

19 Q Would yOU SOy, sir, the moon is blue if the Government

20 would not indict your daughter?

21 A I would not. One of the agreement with the Government

22 is not to hire or not to tell a lie; just to tell the truth.

23 Q Who decides if you are lYing?

24 A You people.

25 Q The Government?

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1 A I think the Judbe; the Honorable Judge will decide and ~ 2 ( the Jury will decide if I tell the truth or not.

3 Q Then YOU are interested in the mayor being convicted on

4 your testimony?

5 A No. I am not.

6 Q The Government, in exchange to your plea to the two

7 counts said YOU would not be charged with those other crimes

8 that they thought YOU had committed.

9 Do YOU recall that? Do YOU wish me to rephrase

10 it?

11 A Yes.

12 Q There was an investigation concerning H.U.D. fraud in a

13 subsidized low income apartment project for the elderly and

14 handicapped known as Porto Del Sol. Do you know that?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Do YOU know what I om talking about? I

17 A Yes.

18 Q Porta Del Sol, were yOU the general contractor on that

19 building?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Who provided the money for that? Was that HUD?

22 A HUD.

23 Q How was the land purchased?

24 A The developer or the sponsor of the project was VOA

t 25 Volunteer of America,

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Padreda - Cross -

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Q People sometimes get ~etters in the moil from HUD; it is I

a nonprofit organization?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Provides hot lunches, help for the elderly?

5 A This is a non profit station that have over 10,000 or

6 eleven thousand units through the United States.

7 Q By sponsor, meaning they were the ones who would build

8 it?

9 A They are going to own the building.

10 Q Once it is built?


12 Q In order for them to get the building, somebody has to

13 buy the land to meet the speaks specifications, build the

14 building and turn it over to them?


16 Q You were involved from beginning to end or just with the

17 end?

18 A From beginning to end.

19 Q Did there come a time YOU got an option to purchase the

20 land?


22 Q You are telling us YOU paid 70 thousand for that option?

23 A 700 thousand.

24 Q Seven hundred thousand for the option?

25 A Yes. The price of the land is $700,000.

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Podreda - Cross -

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Q I understand that, but YOU did not put UP 700 thousand.

A I put 70 thousand dollars.

Q 10 percent?

A 10 percent.

Q For the option for the land?

6 A Correct.

7 Q That was with Renan Steve Delgado, was it not?

8 A One of his operations.

9 Q Lazer, N.V.?


11 Q It was his corporation. He, along with another

12 gentleman, signed the option agreement?

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A That's correct.

Q If, in fact, YOU did not get the project on that piece

of land, YOU would end UP with the land if you paid the 700

16 thousand?

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A That's correct.

Q If YOU did not buy the land, YOU would have lost the

deposit?

A That's right.

a Who was Your portner?

A Myself.

a You alone?

A Yes.

a Your money?

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A Yes.

a Camilo Padreda, Contractors?

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A I went to the Consolidated Bonk, and I request a loon,

to put that money in escrow, with a lawyer, to buy the land.

a You borrowed 70 thousand?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Put it in escrow for the option?

8 A That's correct.

9 a How long was the option?

10 A The option was at the beginning for 6 months} and then

11 was extended for another 6 or 8 months.

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a Did yoU and Mr. Delgado reach that agreement to extend

the option, or did he reach that with somebody else?

A Mr. Delgado -- I don't understand the question.

Q You said there was on option to buy the land for six

16 months?


18 a Then yOU said it was extended for another six months?

19 A At that time the first option was not requested to put

20 any money in; just I think it was $100, something like that,

21 good faith deposit.

22 Q When YOU first got the land YOU only put UP 100?

23 A Something like that, Then when it expired, because the

24 sponsor hove not yet have the approval from HUD, then Renan

25 Delgado request if I wont to continue 1t, to the land, I

Vol. 9-142

Padreda - Cross -

1 have to put it, earn the money deposit,

( 2 Q Because his land was already tied UP for six months for

3 only $100?

4 A That is exactly right.

5 Q He said, Hif YOU wont more, YOU hove to pay," right?

6 A That's right.

7 Q And YOU did?

8 A Yes. I went to the bank.

9 Q Borrowed; put it in escrow?


11 Q Porta Del Sol is right behind Fsperonza, is it not?

12 A That is Porto Del Sol,

13 MR, HOGAN: Can I point that out, Judge?

14 THE COURT: Yes.

15 MR. HOGAN: This is Porta Del Sol; this project

16 here. I

17 BY MR. HOGAN:

18 Q Then there came a time they would buy the property; BOA

19 purchase it?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Was that before the option ran out?

2.2 A That supposed to be before the option went off, and they

23 don't have the money. VOA.

24 Q So YOA does not have it?

25 A And I went to Renan Delgado and request him to extend to

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Vol. 9-143

Padreda - Cross -

another month. By that time he told me he was ready to talk

to his lawyer, to send me a letter, that I would toke bock

to the land, and I would have lost the 70 thousand myself.

Q What did YOU do?

A I request him that everything was approved, show him

that the HUn was approved, the land and everything was

approved just a matter of time.

He give me on extension. He was talking to the

lawyers from VOA, in order to give another extension. I

think it was 30 days or something like that.

a Extended the time for 30 days. What I am asking is when

the land was sold, who was it sold to?

A It was sold to VOA.

Q It was sold not for the 700 thousand that YOU had the

option for?

A For $800,000.

Q You actually did whot is known as flipped the contract,

correct?

A That's correct.

Q You had on option for 700, where YOU put UP 70. You

flipped it to VOA for 800?

A That's correct.

Q $100,000 profit?

A Less $20,000 that we spent in the demucking and cleaning

the land ond put some fill.

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Vol. 9-144 Podredo - Cross -

Q Did YOU gO back to--- By the way) as to that, did YOU

really--- Strike that.

there?

A No.

There was no real estate broker involved, was

Q So in January and February of 1986. the land was sold to

VOA for $800,000, and that contract to VOA called for

brokers commissjon, did it not?

A That's correct.

Q That brokers commission was to be to Regional Realty and

Appraisal Services?

A That's correct.

Q Right?

A Yes, sir.

a You hod to gO to Delgado and sit down and talk to him to

get him to do this, did YOU not?

A That's correct.

a Was he at first hesitant to do it?

A No.

Q Just said fine?

A Fine. because he told me in the beginning the price was

net, without any realtor. If I have realtors involved it

would be higher priced.

Q Did yOU not know HUn was involved?

A How can I know that HUn was involved? When? When?

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Podreda - Cross -

When I put the---

Q When YOU sold it to YOA.

A When I sold it to VOA, yes.

Q You knew it was HUD money?

MR. CHAYKIN: Let him fintsh his answer.

6 Q You knew it was HUD money?

7 A It's YOA money.

8 Q Who gives YOA the money?

9 A HUD.

Vol. 9-145

10 Q Renan Delgado agreed, YOU said, to just do this. Did he

11 know it was HUD money, Renan Delgado, that he was getting

12 paid with?

13 A Yes, sir. On the first option to buy the land, was

14 option that mentioned that that land had to be ready for 100

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16

units for elderly, 100 units.

At that time was ready for 70 or 72 or 73

17 townhouses.

18 Q Let me ask yOU this: Did YOU not tell Renan Delgado YOU

19 were obligated to pay 80,000 to a broker and ask him to

20 raise the price so that you can pay that 80,000 to a broker?

21 A I told him I going to have a broker on the transaction,

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yes, sir,

Q That was not true, wos it? You ~ere lYing?

A No. It was not true, because I want to be sure that if

I hove to put 70 thousand dollars T if I don't have the

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1 contract, I would make the $80,000, because the last date--I

( 2 don't finish.

3 Q I understand.

4 A The last day or the date I signed the contract with the

5 VOA was the same day of the closing of the land. At the

6 same date was no before. Till that dote J don't have a

7 contract to be a general contractor.

8 I don't know if yOU understand what my answer is.

9 Q I even forgot my question, but the question I am asking

10 yoU is: Did YOU, sir, with Mr. Delgado, did yoU convince

11 him to raise the price so that you could get a brokers

12 commission for 80,000, plus this 20,000 for mucking fees?

13 A Yes 1 sir.

14 Q That was to gO to you, was it not?

15 A Yes, sir.

16 Q Did Delgado know that?

17 A I believe so.

18 Q Did yOU tell him that?

19 A I think so.

20 Q You think so?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q The demucking you're talking about, the 80 J OOO was to go

23 to YOU for 10 percent, but yOU would actually hove it sent

24 to a realty company?

( 25 A Yes 1 sir.

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Padreda - Cross -

a To make sure nobody knew it came to you?

A That's right.

Vol. 9-147

a The 20,000 for mucking, actually yOU went bock and--

A And do it.

a Tried to show Delgado bills for that, did you not?

A I sent a bill for that.

7 Q They were fake, were they not?

8 A Why?

9 Q Because YOU did not do that.

10 A Who said thot?

11 Q Did you?

12 A I did.

13 Q You did the mucKing?

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A Yes.

Q $20,000 worth?

A No. 15, 14 thousand.

a You gave Mr. Delgado bills for that, did yOU not?

A No. I billed for my own company. I billed 20,000,

because that was the agreement; $20,000, to take the

20 garbQge.

21 That was the agreement with Delgado, I would

22 charge $20,000 to take all the garbage and demuck the

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property, because HUn would not accept enough pay for the

mucking.

a Did you not take Mike Vasquez over there in an attempt

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Vol. 9-148

Padreda - Cross -

1 to introduce him as a broker?

2 A Yes. I introduced him as the broker. I don't deny that

3 I did that. What I say, I did the work for the demuckingJ

4 and hauling all the trash.

5 a Did yOU attempt to have Delgado submit to your company,

6 substitute your company's invoices to Cipicorp, Cipicorp for

7 the demucking bills; in other words, change bills? Did YOU

8 ask him to change bills?

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Q

A

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Q

Yes.

Why?

He ask me to present a bill.

And you did?

I did.

You went bock and asked him to change it to your

15 company, because yOU took 20,000 from your company?

16 A Because he paid to my person direct.

17 a Was the brokerage commission a sham and a hoax?

18 A The brokerage commission, yes, it was.

19 a Did the money end UP in your pocket?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Were YOU also under investigation at that time for

22 conspiracy to commit bribery and tax fraud involving your

23 dealings with Sergio Pereira?

24 A Up to now, up to today, nobody told me that I am a

25 target of an investigation on that deal with Sergio Pereira.

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Vol. 9-149

Podreda - Cross -

1 The only thing I can tell YOU what I read in the newspaper.

2 Q t did not hear who YOU said was the target.

3 A I said UP to today, to this moment, I have not received

4 any communication for any agency that I am a target of the

5 investigation of the land deal with Sergio Pereira.

6 Q They told yOU that as part of your plea agreement that

7 was one of the things YOU were under investigation for?

8 A That was not part of the agreement.

9 Q As port of YOur use immunity, once they gave you--Iet me

10 finish; then YOU can go.

11 As port of giving YOU immunity, did YOU tell them

12 about the deal YOU had involving Sergio Pereira, on the

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property located at 114 Avenue and Flagler Street?

A At the moment the plea agreement was no mention at any

time that deal.

Q I agree. That is done. Plea agreement is over. After

17 that YOU sit down for 20 hours with the Government?

18 A They asked me Questions about checks and asked me

19 questions about deals. I respond---

20 THE COURT: Sir, listen carefully to his

21 Questions. Then answer directly. If it needs on

22 explanation I will let you do so. Rephrase your question.

23 BY MR. HOGAN:

24 Q The plea agreement of September 26th and your plea of

25 October 10th, 1990 are finished. You are now waiting

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A Yes.

Padredo - Cross -

Vo].9-J50

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a Pursuant to that plea agreement, YOU have immunity for

what YOU tell the Government, when they ask YOU questions,

5 whatever YOU tell them, YOU have immunity if it involves any

6 crimes yOU committed. You understand that?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Pursuant to that, because of that, you sat down with the

9 Federal Bureau of Investigation and answered their questions

10 about certain transactions YOU were involved in, correct?

11 A Yes.

12 Q One of those transactions concerned rezoning the piece

13 of property, did it not, 114th Avenue and Flagler Street?


15 Q That was a situation where yOU were in partners with

16 Sergio Pereira, was it not?

17 A Yes.

18 a You did rezone on that property, did you not?

19 A I was port of that group. I was port owner] 25 percent

20 owner of that group.

21 Q Mr. Pereira was 25 percent owner?


23 Q Two other individuols were 25 percent owner?

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A It was Mike Vasquez, was Bolimo Armas and their family.

Q As part of increasing the price of that property, you

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told us YOU agreed to pay, through circular means, $40,000

or something to that effect for a commisSion to get to help

3 yOU rezone that property, correct?

4 A No, sir.

S Q Tell me what YOU did.

6 A We bought the property and through my CPA, I shared that

7 Mr. Fmilio Cruz would like to buy the property if the

8 property is rezoned commercial.

9 The other 3 corners of the southwest-- of 114th

10 Avenue and Flagler Street are already zoned commercial.

11 We went to see Emilio Cruz; Mr. Manny Vasquez and

12 myself, we went to see Emilio Cruz at his office, and we

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discussed the price.

He said that he would come bock to us with the

15 proposal--I am sorry--with the controct. Time passed, and

16 he never show UP with the contract.

17 At one point, 3 or four months r Mr. Valdez come to

18 my office and told me that through his daughter, who is a

19 real estate salesman, he think he can help me to sell the

20 property to the people who owns the trailer pork.

21 Furthermore, he told me that he can talk to Mr--

22 not Cruz--the partner of the Cruz there, on the trailer

23 pork, in order to have people who speaK in the zoning

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hearing in our favor.

Q What did he wont in exchange?

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A The standard broker commission.

a Which was 40,OOO?

Vol. 9-152

3 A Was about three percent. 40,000.

4 a Sergio Pereira knew nothing about your dealings with

5 him?

6 A No, sir.

7 Q He was absolutely, completely foreign to those dealings

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yOU had?

A To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir.

Q He was completely away?

A He was completely away for that.

a Although he was a partner, he did not know anything

about that?

A He knew nothing about Jorge Voldez. He would know about

15 Emilio Cruz.

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Q He was portner with you. He did not know anything about

thot?

A No.

Q Did YOU also, pursuant to immunity, so yOU would not be

prosecuted concerning this 50,000 YOU told us about, that

21 you put UP to change a man's vote so Sergio Pereira could be

22 city manager, I believe. I think that was in Morch of 1.985.

23 Do yOU recoIl that?

24 A Yes.

25 Q At thot time the person that yoU told us about, I forget

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his nome, what was the commissioners nome?

A Demetrio Perez.

Q Was voting for somebody else?

A Two times.

Q City manager, correct?

A That's correct.

Vol. 9-153

Q In order to switch his vote, how did he happen to

contact you?

A Sir, I think YOU misunderstand what J said in the

10 beginning.

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Q I thought YOU mode on agreement for him to switch his

vote, it was not needed?

A May I put the record straight.

Q Certainly. You can answer the question, yes, sir.

A I hod a call from 0 lawyer called Alberto Cardinas, to

gO to his office.

17 Q When?

18 A Before the voting.

19 Q March of '85, something like that?

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A Two, three days, four days before the voting dote.

Q The voting was on 0 Monday or Tuesday?

A I don't recoIl. It was early in the commission heDring,

Tuesday, Thursday. I don't recall the date.

Q Did yOU go to the meeting on a week day?

A I went to Alberto Cardinas office.

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Padreda - Cross -

On a weekday; not on a weekend?

On a week dote.

Week; w-e-e-k?

Yes.

I am trying to get it in my mind.

Vol. 9-154

Then what happened?

A Demetrio Perez was there. Demetrio Perez said he had a

commitment to vote for Cesar Odio. In order to change his

vote, he would like to know what we can do in order to raise

money for his campaign.

Q That was coming UP in November?

A In November.

Q Of this year or a year further up? Some November?

A I cannot remember. I think it was '85. It was

November, six months awoy. At that time we were discussing,

and what he wont to be sure that we come with the banquet.

with a fund raising cocKtail party to raise ex amount of

money.

And then he said he want to be sure that that

money would be held in escrow until the time the fund

raising is done. And whatever money was not--whatever money

was not raised, the difference would be paid by that.

Q That 50,000?

A That's correct.

Q That yoU said was you, Cardinos?

A Mr. Montovaro.

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Padreda - Cross -

1 Q And Perez. all the in the same office?

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A In the same office was Alberto Cardinas, Demetrio Perez

and myself.

Q You agreed at that time to raise fifty thousand for his

campaign?

A That's correct.

Q You agreed to get 50.000 in cash, currency, and put it

8 in escrow?

9 A I agreed to Alberto Cardinas to gO to the Alberto

10 Cardlnas bank and request a loan, and put it 1n Alberto

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Cardinas trust account.

Q You borrowed $50,OOO?

A $50,000.

Q Put it in a trust account?

A Trust account.

Q That was to guarantee that you would raise the money at

17 the campaign that was coming up?


19 Q It came to pass that Sergio Pereira was elected by the

20 commission without even needing Mr. Perez' vote, correct?


22 Q Sergio Pereira did not know one damn thing about this,

23 did he?

24 A No, sir.

25 Q You were dOing this because he was a friend?

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Vol, 9-156

Padreda - Cross -

A Yes, sir.

Q Or YOU thought he was the best for the City of Miami?

A First of all, for both,

MR, CHAYKIN: Objection, Form of the question,

THE COURT: Overruled,

THE WITNESS: Do I have to answer?

THE COURT: Do YOU understand the question.

THE WITNESS: I think he not only was the best.

9 but at that time he had some problems in Dade County, and I

10 think it was appropriate to try to get him another job.

11 Q So yOU did that for your friends?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Without him knowing about this deal?

14 A He knows the deal with Demetrio Perez; no, he no nothing

15 else.

16 Q He does not know a thing about that? It came a time

17 that yOU found out yOU did not need to vote and yOU went;

18 Mr. Cardinas gave yOU hove the check bock and you paid the

19 loon bock?

20 A Mr. Cardinas, himself, he had the money in escrow. He

21 went back to the bonk and paid the money back to the bank

22 and that is it.

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Q Do yOU recall when yOU received on the Casa Del Sol, the

money, the $100,000 ond how YOU received it?

A I don't think I received $100,000.

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Q 20,000, sir, went to Camilo Padreda, did it not?

A Yes. Camilo Padreda, General Contractor, Inc.

Q Is that your best recollection?

A I believe so. I don't know.

Q The other 80,000 went to Regional Realty and Appraisal

6 Services?

7 A Yes.

8 Q As a real estate commission?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q And out of that YOU got 77 thousand?

11 A Some thousand.

12 Q 77,500?

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A Yes, sir.

Q The other 25 hundred went to Governor Martinez campaign,

did it not?

A I don't recall that for the Governor Martinez campaign.

Q Do YOU recall the dote? That's all I am asking you.

The year?

19 A 1986.

20 Q The month. Let's not belabor the point. let me show

21 YOU these two checks. These two checks from the office of

22 Harold Kravitz. Did YOU know Mr. Harold Kravitz, the lawyer

23 in Hialeah?

24 A I don't think I met him. I don't know. I don't know

25 him.

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A Yes.

Q That is not to the contractor; that is to you?

A Yes.

Q 20,000?

6 A Yes,

7 Q The second one is to the real estate office?

8 A Yes.

9 Q September 4 for the 80,000, 1986; September 6---

10 MR, CHAYKIN: I object, Improper predicate;

11 refreshing the recollection or is he reading from the

12 document?

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MR, HOGAN: I am trying to save time.

THE COURT: Objection overruled. Go ahead,

Q Do yOU recall no~ if it was September 4th and September

6. 1986, that the two checks were written?

A Yes.

Q Sergio Pereira is a personal friend of yours, is he not?

A Yes, sir.

Q Did it ever enter your mind that the two things that yoU

did involving him might get him in trouble?

A No, sir.

Q No 1 sir?

A No. I say no.

Q You learned the bids on EsperanzQ were September 1982;

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that's when the bids come in, thot bid proposal YOU have in

front of YOU, that we have been through; YOU remember, the

3 one YOU signed?

4 A Yes.

5 Q September 30th, 1982?

6 A Yes.

7 Q You were here?

8 A I don't know if I was here. I was in Texas.

9 Q Your wife swore YOU were here?

10 A My wife--I think my wife--she knows my signature. She

11 knows very well my signature.

12 Q Okay. Do yOU for what subscribed and sworn to before me

13 this--

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MR. CHAYKIN:

THE COURT:

Objection. Repetitious.

Sustained. It is repetitious.

In Q Your best recollection is YOU were in Texas?


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MR. HOGAN: Con I write Texas on the board?

THE COURT: You better not ask him.

MR. HOGAN: Moy I write Texas on the board?

THE COURT: Yes.

23 Q Had YOU had anything to do prior to September 30th,

24 1982, with the paperwork? Had yoU read anything, looked ot

25 anything?

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6

7

8

Vol. 9-160

Podreda - Cross -

A I believe if YOU go over to this papers YOU will see

that Alfredo Osorio was the project manager in charge of the

bidding and the submitted everything.

Q Let me show YOU Government's exhibit 129 for

identification. All I asking you is: Do YOU Just put your

name on any letter thot is put 1n front of you?

A No.

Q You read them?

9 A Yes.

10 Q It is a two page document. September 1st, this letter,

11 do YOU see this letter? It is in evidence. It's signed by

12 you. Do YOU see that?

13 A Yes.

14

15

16

17

18

19

Q Camilo Padredo. I think YOU read it over before, and

YOU are asking them for additional information based upon

the prototype multiples is established on page 7.

Do YOU notice, sir, that the documents yOU picked

UP, whether it was picked up, told yOU that the land had

been preselected and thot the developer had to pay for the

20 land?

21 A That was one of the Question thot we have.

22 Q Did YOU read the documents?

23 A No, r have not read the documents. Mr. Osorio read the

24 document.

25 Q Therefore, yOU could not have a Question because yOU did

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Padreda - Cross -

not read the document?

A That's correct.

Q Who told YOU they had a Question?

4 A Mr. Osorio.

Vol. 9-161

5 Q The project director told yOU he did not know whether

6 the cost of the land was included in the project?

7 A That is correct.

8 Q How long before?

9 A It have to be dote two, three days before.

10 Q I understand you where are in Texas probably a couple of

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

weeks out of every month, were yOU not?

A Yes.

Q This is 8 years, ago 9 years a90?

A That's correct.

Q You flew, did YOU not?

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

Yes.

Bock and forth?

Yes.

Airline tickets?

Yes.

Where are they?

Where whot?

The airline tickets. Did yoU submit them to your

24 company?

25 A Fight years 090, 9 years (190. I don't know. I distroy

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1 them. I moved 3 times already.

2 Q You don't have them?

3 A No, sir.

4 Q They have been destroYed?

5 A You can have the airline. Maybe the airline,

6 Continental Airline. Also sometime Eastern Airline.

7 Q September 1, 1982 to September 30th, what weeks do yOU

8 spend in Texas jn your normal routine?

9 A Two weeks. 3 weeks. Sometimes a full month.

10 Q Two months at a time?

11 A Sometimes one month at a time.

12 Q The Government aSKed YOU specific questions about things

13

14

YOU did and meetings YOU made and based upon YOU being in

Texas on September 1st. Do YOU have some document showing

15 you were in Texas?

16 A No. I don't have any documents.

17 Q Do YOU have anything?

18 A Not to my knowledge?

19 A Ask the Question.

20 Q Do YOU have anything other than your independent memory

21 as to where YOU were between September 1st and September

22 30th?

23 A No. I have not.

24 Q What YOU are talking about during those days are the

25 meeting YOU had with Julio Castano, YOU told us on direct.

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1 Can YOU SOy today, from your independent memory, that it was

2

3

sometime in September?

A Between the 9th, 10th or the 11th.

4 Q Why?

5 A Because most of that I live in Miami.

6 Q What did YOU do between the 9th, 10th and 11th of

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8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

Septemoer of 1983?

A I no recall where I was at that time.

Q Did yOU talk over with your wife to see if yOU can set

the date better?

A No. I talk to nobody about those times.

Q Except the Government?

A I don't think I talked specifically with the Government.

In that particular time. yes, I think I talked to the

Government. Yes. In 1982; not 1983. You just asked me if

I know where I was in 1983.

Q The answer was no?

18 A The answer is no.

19 Q How about '84?


21 Q '8S?

22 A The answer is here in Miami.

23 Q September?

24 A September.

25 Q How about May of '85?

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Padreda - Cross -

A Miami. No. In Europe.

Q Europe?

A Yes. May '85 I was in Paris, and---

Q The point is it is difficult to recall?

A Yes. Some specific moment YOU remember.

Vol. 9-164

Q Somebody can put it together for you if they show YOU

different things.

MR. CHAYKIN: Objection. Argumentative.


Q Is there any Kay YOU con honestly tell us, from your

independent recollection, from your independent

recollection, where YOU were in the Mayor's office, Julio

Castano's office, in Texas, wherever, during that time?

Can YOU tell us the day YOU signed this letter,

15 Government's exhibit 129 doted September 1st, were YOU in

16

17

Miami? Were YOU in Texas?

A let me explain to YOU.

Where Kere you?

I SOy the beginning, most of the

18 time that my office, I have to send a letter. They wont me

19 to sign the letter. They send the letter to Texas. Federal

20 Express.

21 Q Overnight?

22 A Yes. I sign it and sent it back.

23 Q That's two days?

24

25

A Can be two days. Can be one day.

Q You can handle your business from Texas?

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Vol. 9-16S

Padreda - Cross -

A Yes. 1

2

3

4

5

Q There was no need for yOU to be here September 1st to

September 30th?

A I said I spend two weeks; most of the time two weeks in

Texas and the rest over here. I also have business in

6 Miami. I also have business that my wife owns downstairs,

7 down to my office. I also have two kids that I have to take

8 care of.

9 Q Your wife also owns--is a sale stockholder of C and J

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

Contractors?

A Sir.

Q Your wife was also the sale owner of C and J Contractors

in August of 1984, was she not?

A That's correct.

Q That was because YOU hod been indicted?

A I don't think that in 1984 have anything to do with my

17 indictment.

18 Q She owned the contracting company?

19 A Yes. That is the only thing she has.

20 Q What did they build?

21 A She is dOing some contractor and carpet and tile.

22 Q How about '84.

23 A I no remember 1984.

24 Q Do yOU remember being in partners with Delcoron

25 Corporation to build a 48 apartment complex in the City of

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Pod redo - Cross -

Brownsville , Texas?

A Yes. It never was funded.

Q Were YOU in that deal?

4 A Yes l as a general contractor.

5 Q for C and J Contractors?

6 A As a general contractor for the project.

Vol. 9-166

7 Q Wnen YOU walked into the Mayor's office for the first

8 time concerning this project , can you tell us what your best

9 recollection is now today when that was , what date?

10 A Summer. I don't say the date.

11 Q Summer of '82?

12 A Of '82.

13 Q What was the last time YOU talked to the mayor about

14 this contract?

15 A Two days after or one night after the bid was awarded.

16 Q You knew that because yOU had to go to the hospital

17 shortly thereafter?

18 A Be on the 15th.

19 Q At the meeting on that occasion , yOU said there were

20 other people present?

21 A Cardona was present. There was another man there

22

23

24

25

present.

Q What did the other man look like?

A Tall , young person. I do not recall.

Q Color of hoir?

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Padreda - Cross -

A I do not recall. Maybe block.

Q Maybe. All right. How long was that meeting?

A Half hour. An hour.

Q Between a half hour and an hour?

A 20 minutes. I don't recall.

Q You were in pain?

A Yes.

Q What time of day or night was it?

A After 7 for one night.

Vol. 9-167

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Q Between 7 and 9; it eQuId not be later than that?

A I don't think so,

Q That was after Mr. Osorio visited YOU at your house?

A That was that night or the night after.

Q One or the two nights. You can't tell us if Mr. Osorio

15 Visited yOU and then you left and went over to the Mayor's

16 house?

17 A I don't have that recollection.

18 Q Do YOU recall now what YOU said to the mayor or were YOU

19 talking to the mayor or were YOU talking to Cardona or were

20 YOU all seated in the living room?

21 A I think everybody was sitting in the living room,

22 Cardona and the mayor and myself.

23 Q Around a table?

24 A I don't see any toble. I see a sofa; two chairs, and

25 the center table.

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1 Q Prior to this meeting had your indictment ever come up?

2 A Yes. On prior to the meeting I have with the mayor that

3 night, yes.

4 Q Yes.

5 A Yes.

6 Q I know YUU had been indicted. Did YOU have tu file a

7 certificate of prior porticipation?

8 A I have done that way before the indictment.

9 Q You hod though, had YOU not?

10 A I had that.

11 Q Did yOU change it, have to file it twice?

12 A Nobudy asked me for a change. I don't recall.

13 Q I understand that. Do yOU have any recollection?

14 A I dont recall.

15 Q Do yOU recall Morganti asking to YOU file a new one

16 after your indictment?

17 A I don't think I talked to Mr. Morganti. sir.

18 Q Did YOU get a telegram from him?

19 A Not to the best of my knowledge. I don't know.

20 Q Did YOU have anY--did yoU know there could be a problem

21 with HUD if YOU were under indictment at that time? Did yoU

22 know that?

23 A Maybe because of my position at that time or where I was

24

25

aware, I was not worrying about this as much as I was

worried about the other things.

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Vol. 9-169

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q You were worried about the indictment in Texas and the

2

3

4

5

6

your mind was on other things?

A Yes.

a More important.

A I think so.

Q I think yOU told us that after the contract had been

7 withdrawn and Mr. Osorio had a conversation with YOU, when

8 yOU talked to the mayor the moyor soid, HyOU must be crazy;

9 yOU had the best proposal, the highest number of points and

10 the votes. You should have stayed in there,"

11 A I don't say the mayor told me crazy.

12 Q All the rest?

13 A That was my project wos the best according to what he

14 hear, my project was the best project.

15 Q Did yOU SOY, what, are YOU crazy, the FBI was there?"

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23

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A I don't say I was crazy.

Q What did yOU soy when the mayor said that? Did YOU

think the mayor---


MR. HOGAN: I apologize. Go ahead.

A I told the moyor what Osorio told me.

a That he had to withdraw the contract because the FBI was

there; he hod been approached by Fmma.

A I told the mayor that Emma approched David Perez, who

they know from other projects that they hod been together,

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and the Emma person told the architect thot they request the

FBI or the FBI was there at their request, because they know

3 there was money for this project, and it was David Perez

4 told Alfredo Osorio and Alfredo Osorio make the decision;

5 went to the board at that time and request the board that

6 the bid from Camilo Padreda, Contractor, Inc.

7 Q Had YOU rehearsed that answer?



10 MR. CHAYKIN: I move it be striken.

11 THE COURT: Motion as to strike is granted.

12 Q How many times had YOU given that answer in those words

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14

15

16

before?

A How many times.

Q Have YOU ever over that answer with that gentleman right

there, who questioned YOU before? Did yOU gO over that

17 answer about what the mayor said?

18 A I believe so.

19 Q How many times?

20 A Maybe once. Maybe two.

21 Q In the Grand Jury?

22 A At the Grand Jury, and previous to that.

23 Q With the FBI?

24

25

A The FBI was there.

Q You went over with the FBI and with Mr. Chaykin , that

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Val. 9-171 Padredo - Cross -

1

2

3

answer before YOU went to the Grand Jury, did YOU not?

A Yes.

Q Then yOU went over again in the Grand Jury, did YOU not?

4 A r went agoin.

5 Q You said that resPonse again?

6 A I don't understand your question. If YOU can clarify.

7 Q Where where were YOU on November 9th when the

8 evaluation--instead of a date, an evaluation teom met

9 November 8th and 9th, 1982? Were YOU in Texas?

10 A I was in Tallahassee the date that I--when I come from

11 Tallahassee I received a call from Texas about 5:30 in my

12 house; tell me that I had been indicted in Texas. That was

13 the night of the indictment. According to the record, it

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15

16

17

18

19

20

was November the 9th.

Q You were in Miami?

A I was in Miami. I make phone calls, and I went to see

my lawyer that night.

Q You were in Miami?

A I was in Miami.

Q You went so see to see a lawyer that night?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q When did YOU learn of the results of the the evaluation

23 teom, if ever?

24 A I don't think I recall that to know what the evaluation

25 team was.

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Q You did not know where yOU stood?

A No.

1

2

3 Q When did you learn, if ever l that the roof had been

4 changed?

5 A The rood?

5 Q The roof in the prDPosal.

7 A The roof?

8 Q You can show us the page in there. You have been over

9 that. You had been over this document?

lQ A I was not over this document. This is maybe the second

11 or 3rd time I gO over this document.

12 Q Before with the Government?

13

14

15

A I say with the Government l once.

One; not twice. The roof was here.

with the roof.

I think Just one.

That was the problem

16 Q The problem was in the top part, right?

17 A The top port of the picture to the inside of the house.

18 Q Let's show what I am looking otl and what other problems

19 were there in this proposal?

20 A I have no ideo what other problem was.

21 Q Were changes made to that proposal?

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23

24

25

A I have no ideo what other problems was or change was.

was informed that was the roof. I was in Texas when I was

informed.

Q Informed what?

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Val. 9-173 Padreda - Cross -

A Informed about the change that have to be mode.

Q That had to be at the end of the month or first week in

the month?

A Have to be sometime. One was the evaluation.

Q November 8th and 9th?

A November '89 I spent most of the time in Texas.

Q I am aware of that.

THE COURT: Counsel, don't make responses.

Q If I take this away, tell me whpn you first met with

10 Julio Castano.

11 A Maybe 1979.

12 Q That was while he was with the City of Miami, was it

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14

15

16

17

not?

A Yeah.

Q He was a strong patriotic Cuban American, was he not?

A (orrect.

Q Very forceful; somewhat stubborn, hard headed?

18 A Good veteran.

19 Q I beg your pardon.

20 A He was a veteran.

21 Q He had been in Vietnam. He was wounded. He was on 60

22 percent disability?

23 A Disability.

24 Q A little crazy sometimes?


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Vol. 9-174

Padredo - Cross -

THf COURT: Sustained. 1

2 Q Was he a little weird sometimes? Kind of fly off the

3 handle?

4 A I hove no ideo. I am not a doctor to answer the

5 question.

6 Q You. sir. since 1960 hove been out in the company of

7 many, many people. I am asking YOU was he a little strange

8 compared to others at times?

9 A I really don't recall.

10 Q He also is dead. is he not?

11 A He 0150 whot?

12 Q Is dead. Another person yOU talked to about this who is

13 dead?

14 A Yes, he is dead.

15 Q And the meeting YOU hod with him the mayor was not

16 present?

17 A No.

18 Q He calls yOU and said to come over?

19 A Mr. Castano was the one who called me, yes.

20 Q The best date you con give us is when in '82?

21 A Have to be around September 9, 10. That is the usual

22 one when I was in Miami.

23 Q It had to be in September?

24 A It was after we pick UP the proposal.

25 Q That was September 10?

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Vol. 9-175

Padreda - Cross -

1 A Have to be after that, Maybe the 11th or the 12th.

2

3

4

5

When YOU say we pick the proposal?

Q I will show YOU, After he signed the concrete receipt

for the proposal YOU said not after, I am sorry,

You met Mr, Castano. He called YOU on the

6 telephone. "come over."

7 A Yes.

8 Q A day or two ofter you sjgned the receipt for the

9 proposal?

10 A I don't recall when I signed the receipt for the

11 proposal,

12 Q When your company got it?

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A I don't recall when the company got it. If YOU can tell

me.

Q I can. but I am asking YOU if YOU con refer to the time.

A I am referring to the time that use to be in Miami is

about ofter the first weeK after the 5th or the 6th when we

pay the subcontractor.

the 10th of the month.

We try to pay subcontractors before

Between the 5th and 6th in order to

get two percent discount.

After that I sign the checK; give the checK, come

bock to Miami.

Q If it was then, if yoU picked jt UP the last week in

August. or the first week in September. YOU would not have

been here to do it?

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Padreda - Cross -

A To pick UP the papers?

Q Yes.

A I don't think so.

Vol. 9-176

Q Was that the date of reference YOU used? Do YOU

understand my date of reference for establtshing when YOU

first talked to Castano?

A I remember I talked to Castano in my office when he

called, and we have already the request for proposal. When

he coIled and asked me to come to his office.

Q You already hod the request proposal? You had this

document?

A What day we have that document?

a I said yOU already had this when yOU talked to Castano.

A My office has it.

a You were seeing it? Somebody told you?

A I cannot tell YOU I saw it, no.

a If this was picked UP on August 30th, and YOU said yOU

18 could not be in town~ it would have hod to have been

19 September 10?

20 A ProbablY, yes.

21 Q You go to Castano's office. He calls YOU and says,

22 "come over to the office."

23 Is that the first time he ever called YOU to come

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25

to his office?

A To the best of my recollection, yes.

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Pod redo - Cross -

1 Q Where were YOU, sir~ at home or in your---

2 A My office.

3 Q It was sometime in the morning or afternoon? Can YOU

4 tell us which?

5 A After eleven O'ClOCK. Have to be. Maybe it was in the

6 morning.

7 Q It hod not happened---

8 THE COURT: Rephrase your question.

9 Q That hod not happened before, hod 1tl that Mr. Castano

10 called yOU and soid--- Did he call YOU Camilo?

11 A Yes.

12 Q ·Come over to the office H ?

L 13 A Yes.

14 Q You went right OWOy?

15 A Maybe on hour, two hours or maybe after 10 minutes. I

16 don't recall. I

17 Q He did not tell YOU what he wonted l on the telephone?

18 A No, he did not.

19 Q Did YOU call the mayor and sOY, "why is this gUY colling

21 A No, I did not.

22 Q You just went?

23 A Yes.

24 Q When YOU got there, YOU went to his office. He did not , 25 have a secretory, or did YOU ask to see the secretary?

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Padreda - Cross -

1 A I don't recoIl if he hod a secretory or not. I remember

2 go to the hallway, to the right, to the end of his office.

3 Q What did he SOy? "Hello?" Exchanged pleasantries?

4 A I have no recollection of what he said to soy hello to

5 me or good morning or good afternoon, Mr. Padreda, but I

6 remember the conversation that he was told me that he would

7 try to help me 1n the Esperanza Project; that he would do

8 his best, that he is going to talk to the people in the

9 housing authority in my behalf, and at the end of the

10 conversation he also told me that he is looking for to buy a

11 car, and he need the financing to buy a car.

12 Q How long wos the conversation?

13

14

A It lasted about a half hour; maybe 45 minutes.

Q Tell me what yOU said during that half hour.

15 A I appreciate what yoU are doing, and I appreciate that

16 YOU are helping me to get this project.

17 Q That is like two, 3 minutes. What else was said?

18 A Maybe we are talking about baseball. I don't remember.

19 I specifically remember it was two things.

20 Q It lasted a half hour.

21 A Maybe 40 minutes. Maybe 30 minutes. Maybe 15 minutes.

22 Q After yoU got out of there. YOU went right to the

23 Mayor's office?

24 A Yes.

25 Q He could not see you right away?

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Padreda - Cross -

A I think I was waiting there for a few minutes.

Q Five minutes?

A 10 minutes.

Q You went in?

A I went in.

Q He was---

A He wos at the meeting.

Q He was at a meeting?

A Yes.

Q With whom?

A I don't know.

Q People?

Vol. 9-179

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18

A There was people there. Meeting with the people.

Q Men and women?

A No. I have no idea. We met at the conference room.

Q Which is where?

A Next to his office.

Q Did you close the door?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Did YOU ask for it to be in private. or did he toke YOU

21 in there?

22 A He was busy there.

23 Q How long was that conversation?

24 A At the most 3, four minutes.

25 Q You just relate the best YOU can what YOU said to the

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1 mayor and what the maYor said to you.

2 A The mayor just came from the Castano office. He told me

3 he will help me to get all this--helping to get the

4 Esperanza Project , and at the end of the conversation he

5 told me he was looKing to help in the finance the 20 / 000

6 Mercedes.

7 Q This was with the mayor?

8 A The mayor. The mayor was a little pissed off. He told

9 me it's UP to him. That is his problem. He said he knows

10 what he is doing. That is his problem.

11 Q That was in Spanish?

12 A That was in Spanish, yes.

13

14

Q HThat is his problem. H How does that translate in

Spanish? What would YOU say?

15 A Esa su problema, domio.

16 Q It's not my problem. It is your problem. Your problem?

17 A Sir. YOU say how is it translated. It's translated the

18 the mayor would tell me that his problem. No my problem.

19 That's the translation.

20

21

22

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24

Q

A

Q

A

Q

That is Castano's problem?

That's correct.

Not my problem?

That's correct.

Did he ever discuss Your problem?

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A No.

Pod redo - Cross -Vol. 9-181

1

2

3 Q The 20.000 was for he needed financing for a Mercedes,

4 correct?

5 A That's what he said.

6 Q That was the extent of your conversations with Castano

7 until when?

8 A After that I had not recalled that Castano called me

9 anymore and talked to me anymore.

10 Q Did YOU ever talk to him again?

11 A I don't recall.

12 Q Were YOU at the meeting of contractors on September 10.

13 1982. when they went over the project and asked questions.

14

15

16

contractors asked questions?

A No. I was not.

a You were not?

17 A I was not there.

18 Q But the best of your recollection YOU were in town?

19 A Yes. sir.

20 Q Let me show YOU Government's exhibit 107. which has been

21 identified, has been admitted as a Sign 1n sheet for

22 September 10. 1982.

23 MR. CHAYKIN: The date of the meeting has never

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25

been established. That was a sign it Of---

MR. HOGAN: The exhibit list says 9A and 10. 1

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was relying on the Government exhibit list.

MR. CHAYKIN: That is the exhibit list.

Q Let me show YOu--con YOU tell me, have yoU ever seen a

sign in sheet like that, speaking of this exhibit?

A Yes.

Q Is that YOur contracting company?

A Yes.

Q Is that your writing?

A No.

Q Whose writing is that?

A Mr. Osorio.

Q Osorio was at the meeting on September 10 or whenever

it's established?

A I don't know. I presume he was the one who draw this.

That is not my handwriting.

Q Assume that was September 10. That would have been the

day you were also at City Hall. Would it not?

A Maybe I was there the 9th, 10th or Ith. At what time

was that meeting? At what time was that?

Q I can't answer a question.

THE COURT: Just wait for the next question.

Q Did there ever come a time yoU knew, speaking of you,

YOU as the person who put this project together with your

partners, not the nuts and bolts, but the Camilo Padreda

contractors, did there ever come a time yOU knew before


1 December 13th whether the land cost hod to be included in

2 the cost?

3 A No, sir.

4 Q As of the fino] day when the project was given to Fmmer,

5 YOU never knew whether that included the land cost or it did

6 not include it?

7 A I don't believe so.

8 Q Before YOU is the proposal that your company submitted,

9 correct?

10 A A hum.

11 Q Do YOU see it there?

12 A Here it is.

13 Q That is exhibit number 106, is it not?

14 A Yes. 1.8

15 Q You are familiar with a roof design. Can YOU tell us,

16 sir, where the indication in here is that YOU were in

17 partnership with anybody? Do YOU understand my Question?

18 A Yes, sir.

19 Q Will yoU show us that, please. First, I refer yOU to

20 page 6.

21 A All my partners resumes are here. Port of this

22 proposal.

23 Q What page is that on?

24 A 20. 48. 25. Developers. ( . ,. 25 Q Where does it SOy they are your partners? I see Mr .

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Podreda - Cross -

1 Osorio's resume.

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3

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A Yes.

Q Where does it soy he is your portner?

A In the page 20. 48. 14 say---

Q Let me go bock. 20. 48. 14.

Vol. 9-184

6 A Say developers and experience. No just one developer.

7 Developers. And experience.

8 Q Developers, HUD experience.

9 A Developers, HUn experience. Developers. No developer.

10 Q Down below it says developer? And it says Carnilo A.

11 Padreda?

12 A That's the name of the company. We have a joint venture

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agreement for the project.

Q Did yOU ever put on the certificate of prior

participation anything having to do with these people being

16 your partners?

17 A I think it was oot--1 think it was not request by the

18 Dade County HUD.

19 Q How about the HUD--did YOU read the HUD-- How about the

20 HUD form? Did YOU read it where it says list 011

21 associates, partners?

22 A I don't have in front of me. If J see I can tell YOU.

23 Q Here is one-eleven-15, two pages, four sjdes. Have YOU

24 ever seen this document? Do yOU know what a certificate of

25 prior participation is?


1 A Yes.

2 Q Let me show YOU one-eleven-fifteen. Do YOU see where it

3 says Camilo Padreda} president; Jeanette Padreda}

4 secretary-treasurer.

5 A Yes.

6 Q I guess she was an officer?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Those two signatures SOy they are signed on September

9 30th, 1989?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Was that foxed to YOU, or I guess at that time was that

12 sent to YOU by Federal Express in Texas, or did YOU change

13 the dote?

14 A I had no changed the dote.

15 Q Then it must have been sent by Federal Express?

16 A Maybe I sign it} and this is what the day it was I

17 presented.

18 Q What does it SOy over?

19 A First of all, I cannot remember what day this was, this

20 form was prepared by Alfredo Osorio. It was not prepared by

21 me. I sign it. I no POy attention to the dote. The dote

22 is the dote that I have to make a presentation.

23 Q You mean yoU Just signed and they filled in the rest?

24 A That's what I presume. Thot is over here; Alfredo ( 25 Osorio.

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Vol. 9-186

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q The form was prepared by him?

2 A By him.

3 Q Fine. Do YOU know what participation Alfredo Osorio had

4 in this project?

5 A 25 percent.

6 Q And Sacoso?

7 A 25 percent.

8 Q Your other portner,

9 A 25 percent.

10 Q Where in any document you filed with this project, does

11 it SOy that?

12 A I don't know.

13 Q Have YOU ever seen any document where it says that?

14 A I don't know,

15 Q Have YOU ever disclosed they were your partners?

16 A No. I don't know. The paper was prepared, Every paper

17 down here was prepared by Alfredo Osorio,

18 Q By somebody else?

19 A Yes, because I was in Texas most of the time.

20 Q I agree with YOU sir.

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MR. CHAYKIN: Objectj.on.

THE COURT: Counsel, stop making statements about

23 yOU agree with him or don't agree with him.

24 MR. HOGAN: I apologize. I am having a little

25 trouble.

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THE COURT: I understand. I am giving YOU all the

leeway necessarily.

a You were in Texas most of the time, correct?

A That's correct.

a Do YOU have the form in front of you?

A Yes.

a look at the back of the first page; your signature

appears, back side. Do YOU see what is shown as a list of

previous projects in section 8 contracts?

A Yes.

a You put down Camilo Podredo, general contractor, HUD

project dated July---

A I am sorry, counsel.

Q Dated July '80 through October '8l, correct? The top

one.

A Yes.

Q Were they your partners in that project in 1980?

A Yes.

a Camilo Padreda, General Contractors, is the same one HUn project 811, January '81 through January '82, 75 units.

That was a project YO did in Miami, Florida, for H.U.D.

Were they your partners in that project?

A Yes, they were.

Q Were they all Nicaraguans?

A Yes, they were.

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1 Q The 3rd one is Camilo Padreda, Genera] Contractors, Inc.

2 HUD project '83, correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Were they your portner in that 65 unit?

5 A Yes, they were. They were my partners.

6 Q You hod already done three projects for HUn with these

7 partners?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q None of which were in Hialeah?

10 A No.

11 Q All of which were in Miami?

12 A Dade County.

13 Q Hod YOU approached the officials in Miami to help yOU on

14 those three projects?

15 A No, sir.

16 Q No lobbying; no nothing?

17 A No.

18 Q No political help?

19 A No.

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21


MR. HOGAN: I worked hard this week. Can I go

22 through one other area with a memorandum made about the

23 time, and recess? I am dead tired. I won't take more thon

24 15 minutes.

25 MR. CHAYKIN: The only question I have does

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counsel have much more after that? 1

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MR. HOGAN: I have on hour and a half, two hours.

THE COURT: Let's see how we go.

MR. HOGAN: I am physically tired.

THE COURT: I will give YOU a little surprise.

6 (SIDEBAR CONFFRFNCE CONCLUDED)

7 BY MR. HOGAN:

8 Q Were YOU in pain on December 14, 1982?

9 A I don't understand your Question.

10 Q Were yOU in pain on December 14, 1982?


12 Q Did yoU on that day have a meeting with your partners?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q Where was it held?

15 A At the office.

16 Q Who was present?

17 A All the partners.

18 Q Yourself, Mr. Cardoso, Mr. Osorio and Mr. Socoso, right?

19 A I believe so, yes.

20 Q Right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q What did yoU discuss?

23 A Alfredo Osorio discussed the problem that we have the

24 night before.

25 Q What did he say?

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1 A That the Fmmer people talked to David Perez and David

2 Perez told him that the FBI was there investigating the

3 project r and he make the decision to withdrew from the

4 project.

5 Q Was that in the daytime?

6 A When?

7 Q When yoU hod the meeting in your office with your

8 partner?

9 A Yes.

10 Q How long was the meeting?

11 A I don't recall , but it was maybe an hourI two hour

12 meeting.

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Q What else did YOU discuss?

A All the problems that we were trying to do.

15 Q Did YOU make UP a memorandum of that meeting?

16 A Mr. Sacasa always make memorandums of the meeting;

17 always make up a memo to the file.

18 Q Of the meeting?

19 A Of the meetings or anything.

20 Q Did he make a memorandum?

21 A Yes. He did. He did make a memorandum.

22 Q You have seen that memorandum?

23 A Yes r I see the memorandum. I read the memorandum.

24 Q And read it?

25 A Yes.

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Vol. 9-191

Padreda - Cross -

1 Q Can YOU tell me, sir, where the file is that that

2 memorandum come from?

3 A I don't have any ideo.

4 Q How did YOU happen to get it?

5 A I no have any idea. I got two or three papers, and one

6 of the papers that was when it was the subpoena in my office

7 that was there. I don't know.

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Q

A

When

Two

was that?

years or one year ago. Somethj.ng like that.

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Q Two years ago the Government---

A One year. Maybe one year.

Q One year ago?

A Maybe.

Q So that would have been--- Do you have any independent

15 recollection of when it was?

16 A The papers and the banks statement and everything hod

17 been subpoenaed for all the Government agencies, including

18 YOU.

19 Q I have not subpoenaed YOU until after April of 1990.

20 A I don't Soy the dote.

21 Q I thought yoU said a year ago?

22 A Everything had been subpoenaed. Now, I don't recall.

23 Q Listen to my question. There is a memorandum of a

24 meeting of December 14, 1990 that YOU tell us a dead man

25 mode, right?


1 A A hum.

( 2 Q Correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q You have had an opportunity to read that memorandum,

5 have YOU not?

6 A Yes, I have been reading that.

7 Q That is the only memorandum in existence, from your

8 files, is it not?

9 A In that for that project?

10 Q Yes, for that project.

11 A Yes.

12 Q The only one?

L 13 A Because all the documents was keep by the Socoso grouPJ

14 because I move out of the office after my indictment in

15 Texas, and two or three months after I desired to move my

16 office alone and no gO do any other business with them, and

17 everything was keep there at their office. I

18 Q Except this memorandum?

19 A Except the memorandum and except some other memos in

20 other respect.

21 Q Where are they?

22 A That be in the new joint venture agreement and the

23 project in Texas.

24 Q The Texas agreement?

25 A Yes.

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Vol. 9-J93 Padreda - Cross -

1 Q The only dockuments YOU had in Fsperanza was the

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memoranda made by Mr. Sacasa, who is dead?

A I thinK it is a two or three memorandums, but not

related to this project.

Q The memorandum is not signed or initia1eo, is it?

A No.

7 Q Do we have the original?

8 A Do I have the original? No.

9 Q Did YOU supply the original? Did your supply the

10 original or a Xerox COpy?

11 A Xerox copy. That's what I have, a Xerox COpy.

12 Q Where did YOU keep it since December 14, 1982?

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A It was in my file.

Q Under what?

A I don't recall. I was not the one who find out that

paper.

17 Q Was Osorio port of the partnership for Sacasa to watch

18 your expenditures in the amount of fees YOU were charging?

19 A I think the only person who signed checks in my

20 corporotion was Alfredo Sacasa.

21 Q I am talking about Osorio. Was Osorjo there to watch

22 you?

23 A I don't know.

24 MR. HOGAN: Thirty-nine for identification.

25 THE COURT: It would happen appear it is on there

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Vol. 9-194 Padreda - tross -

appropriately.

Q I am showing YOU Defendant's Exhibit No. 39 for

identification, purporting to be a memo to file of a meeting

December 14, 1982 between Padreda, Adosia, Osorio and

Sacasa?

6 A Con I ask a Question? You say yoU show it to the

7 defendant. Am I a defendant over here?

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Q I said it is a defendant's exhibit.

A You showed to the defendant.

Q I am showing it to the witness. let me get these other

things out of your way. Do YOU understand yOU are still a

defendant? You are just not in this case.

A Not in this room.

Q Would each person in the group have a copy of this

memorandum?

A I don't hove any idea.

Q What was the purpose of making a memorandum?

A To give one to each person.

a Anyone at that meeting would have known yOU discussed

all these things?

A I presume so.

Q Did you?

A

Q

I was there.

I understand, but did yoU, or was this just a cover

memo?

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MR. CHAYKIN: Objection. Argumentative.


3 A We were discussing about everything.

Vol. 9-195

4 Q This looks like this meeting might have token quite

5 sometime. How long?

6 A An hour. Two hours. That's what I soy the beginning.

7 I don't recall.

8 Q This is a day YOU were in pain? The next day YOU would

9 gO to the hospital , right?


11 Q Were yOU seated?

12 A Probably, yes.

13 Q Were YOU bleeding?

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A Probably, yes.

Q Did yOU notice any stains?

A I using the little balloon there.

Q The answer is no?


19 Q The memorandum mentions a number of things; one, two,

20 three, four and after four is number five. Mr. Padreda

21 refers to the withdrawal yesterday of the Esperanza proposal

22 which has been presented to HUD in Hialeah by Camilo A.

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Padredo , General Contractor, Inc. What did yOU tell them?

A What, Osorio come to my office?

Q Osorio was there?

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Vol. 9-196

Padreda - Cross -

A Yes. I said to the other partners that Osorio come to

my office yesterday and tell me this.

Q Where is the memo of went YOU went back to your partners

after the Mayor of Hialeah asked yOU for $150,000,

supposedly?

6 A I have no memo on that.

7 Q Do YOU have any memo of any discussion at that time?

8 A I talked to Mr. Socaso and Osorio was there on the

9 computer room, which is next to Alfredo Sacasa. He was port

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of the conversation.

Q Where was the memo of that?

A I don't make the memos.

Q Never?

A I never. I don't make the memos.

Q If YOU told--Mr. Sacasa was an honorable man was he not?

A Sure.

Q Friend of the Dominican president?

A Sir.

Q He was well connected in the Dominican Republic?

A I don't think so.

21 Q I meon in Nicaragua.

22 A Yes.

23 Q He was well connected in Nicaragua, was he not?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Close to the administration?

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A Yes. 1

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a He wrote this memo, sir, about the Padreda proposal?

A About what? Mr. Padreda---

a Proposal being turned down. That is what it says. The

Padreda--Mr. Padredo referred to the withdrawal yesterday of

6 the Esperanzo proposal?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Well the Esperanza proposal was the Padreda proposal,

9 was it not?

10 A Was the corporation proposal.

11 a Mr. Osorio for sure was at this meeting?

12 A That's for sure.

13 Q When YOU discussed the FBI?

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A Yes.

Q It was in the daytime?

A Yes.

a You had been to the Mayor's house?

A No at that time. I don't believe so.

a Then we know it could not have been the night of

December 13th, 1982, don't we? We have established, have we

not, it hod to be after the 13th?

A Sir, I said that I don't know if I went to the house of

23 the mayor on the 13th or 14th, and this memoranda is the

24 dated the 14th.

25 Q Did YOU gO after that meeting?

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Vol. 9-198

Padreda - Cross -

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A I no remember if I went before this meeting to the

mayor's house, or after the meeting to the mayor's house. I

3 no remember if I went to the 13th or 14th.

4 Q At this time your corporation was in some or your

5 partnership was having some problems, was it not? You were

6 trying to reduce costs?

7 A Because this project was not--it was not done. We have

8 no problem in Miami at that time.

9 Q Because of this project that it was denied the night

10 before YOU were going to start reducing costs the next day?


12 Q There hod been no effort on your port, on the part of

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the four partners, to reduce cost prior to December 13,

1982?

A If we have to do the project, we have to have the best

people we have in the office.

17 Q What were yoU building in Texas? Was not Osorio in

18 Texas?

19 A No. Osorio was once a month, once every two month or

20 more. Sometimes he did not show UP in Texas for three

21 months.

22 Also Mr. Osorio was in Texas two or three times

23 because he wont to build a hotel with Mr. Sacasa and Mr.

24 Odosio, and they were in Texas, and they were trying to

25 build a project in Texas with one of the hotel chains.

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Padreda - Cross -

Q Who rDn the meeting?

A Sir.

Vol. 9-199

3 Q Who ron the meeting? Who chaired the meeting. Who W(JS

4 in charge?

5 A Always Mr. Sacaso.

6 Q Who took the notes?

7 A Mr. Sacasa.

8 Q In longhand?

9 A Yes.

10 Q In Spanish? Do YOU speak Spanish?

11 A I don't know what we got of this or whatever. He was

12 the one who did this.

13 Q What was his native language?

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A Mr. Socasa?

Q Yes.

A He was on engineer.

Q What native language? What was his native language?

A Both, very well.

Q He was born in England?

A No. He was born in ~icaragua, was raised down here and

was married, I believe.

22 Q Did the four of YOU speak Spanish or Fnglish?

23 A Spanish.

24 Q Can YOU tell me then why the memorandum is in Fng]ish?

25 A You have to find out everything was in English.

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1 Q He is dead?

2 A Well, sir, I am sorry YOU can ask the other two

3 partners.

4 MR. HOGAN: That's all I have with this

5 memorandum,

6 THE COURT: Is that all YOU have on the

7 memorandum?

8 MR. HOGAN: Yes.

9 THf COURT: I told YOU I would give YOU a surprise.

10 You got it. We will be in recess until Monday morning at

11 nine o'clock,

12 Now is the time to just sit back and enjoy

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yourselves; have 0 nice weekend. Do don't read anything

about this case in the newspaper. Don't watch any

15 television. Don't listen to anything on the radio. Don't

16 discuss the case with anYone. Don't permit anybody to

17 discuss it with YOU or in your presence. Don't form or

18 express any opinions about the merits of the case.

19 Anything else requested at this time from the

20 Government?

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MR. CHAYKIN: No.

THE COURT: Defense counsel.

MR. HOGAN: No.

I certify the foregoing is a true and correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter.

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

MIAIH DIVISION

Vn' , "_1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ,

PlainU ff,

) ) )

NO . 90-231-Cr-KEHOE

vs .

RAUL MARTINEZ ,

Defendants.

) ) ) ) ) ) )

Miami. Florida February 4, 1991

.- ----, , .w_LJ uy ... ~ I

--------------------~VO~L7U~ME)10 NOV ~1991 \

TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL

I . c; . t rt ( L fv"S e l L It u . S. OIST. c r . ~. D . 0 : , l' .. "" '''''

BEFORE THE HONORABLE JAMES W. KEHOE and a Jury

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16 APPEARANCES :

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For the Plaintiff :

For the Defendant :

Court Reporter :

STEVEN CHAYKIN , ESQ . BRUCE UDOLF, ESQ .

JAMES J. HOGAN , ESQ . EVELYN GREER, ESQ.

PAUL HAFERLING ~"~ 301 North Miami Avenue ;or Miami , Florida 3312

?7""'~ I

-\.

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1 ~R. HOGAN: I mar~ed for identif ication exhibit

2 39A a memorandum of a meeting December 14. 1982 . between ~r .

3 Padreda and ~r . Herdosha and Sacasa.

4 I had this morning as~ed the Government to

5 produce . pursuant the Rule 16 . any confrontation clause of

6 the 6th Amendment . any any documents produced by Padreda.

7 subpoena or voluntarily concerning the Esperanza ProJect .

8 and this memo and the Government informs me this was the

9 only memo ~r. Padreda gave to him . I want to put that on

10 the record.

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~R . CHAYKIN: That·s correct .

"R . HOGAN: I showed ~r . Padreda a COpy of his

13 indictment filed November 9th . 1982 . I neglected to mar~ it

14 far identification . That document I have this morning is

15 mar~ed for identification as Defendant · s exhibit number 4 .

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THE COURT: All right . Any objection?

"R . CHAYKIN : No .

THE COURT : That is 40 in evidence?

~R. HOGAN : No . For identification .

(JURY RETURNS TO COURTROO")

THE COURT : There Has a good deal of publicity

22 about this case in the Herold and otherwise . Everybody

23 obeyed the orders? Anybody read any of those articles .

24 listen to anything on television ; radio?

25 Thank you very much . You may examine .

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CAMILO PADREDA , CROSS EXAMINATION , RESUMED

BY MR, HOGAN :

Vnl In-~

Q I want to Just gO over with YOU, if I can , a couple of

dates that YOU testified about on direct examination ,

Number one , do you recall testifying about going the first

time to Mayor Martinez ' house at 370 West 45th Street?

A Yes, sir ,

Q Can YOU tell us , sir , today , how many times YOU were at

that house in--how many times were YOU at the Mayor's house

at 370 West 45th Street?

A Three or four times ,

Q Were YOU on occasion there with Sergio Perei ra?

A I don ' t recall , but I think I was ,

Q You think YOU were , Did you recall what year it was?

A I don't recall exactly what year it was ,

Q Did YOU have an independent recollection , a picture that

YOU were at the Mayor's house--- By the way, mark it for

identification as 41 ,

THE CLERK : 41 marked for identification,

Q Let me show you Defendant ' s Exhibit 41 for

identification , which is the house at 370 West 45th Street ,

Is that the house you were talking about, the Mayor's house?

A Yes ,

Q Did YOU have a picture of being at that house with

Sergio Pereira and the mayor?

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Padreda - Cros s -

MR . CHAYKIN : I think he answered . Objection .

THE COURT : Overruled . Go ahead . You are talking

about the house in the picture?

Q The house in the picture , yes .

A I don · t visualize exactly.

Q When yOU said you think YOU might , I suppose YOU have

been with Mr. Pereira and Mr. Martinez on other occasions?

A Yes .

Q Political functions, parties , that type of thing?

A Yes .

Q We know yOU have seen them together . Did yoU ever

recall being at--- Strike that .

Let me get the dote , the best you recall , sir , was

the date that you first went to the Mayor ' s house, the house

I showed yOU in the picture?

That dote , as I recall your testimony correctlY ,

was the dote right after you met with Your partners; your

partners agreed to pay and YOU went to tell the mayor . Do

YOU recall that?

A I recall that, but I didn·t Soy it was the first dote I

hod been to the Mayor ' S house .

Q I thought on direct YOU said it was the first dote YOU

hod been there?

A No , sir .

Q You hod been there before that time ?

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A Yes ,

Q HOH many occasions?

A Maybe tHO , No more than tHo times ,

Q The tHO times YOU Here there before that , Has that in

1982 , in the same year?

A I don't recall,

Q Can YOU tell us, with any degree of certainty, Hhen YOU

first Hent to the MaYor ' s house, the one I have Just shoHn

YOU in the picture?

A No , I don't recall Hhen it Has the first time I Has

11 there,

12 Q The first time YOU Hent to the Mayor ' s house, did he

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have a pool in the bac~yard?

A I don ' t thin~ the first time I Hent to the Mayor ' s

house, I Hent to the back of his house , I Just sitting in

16 the dining room ,

17 Q Can YOU tell the JurY, Hith some degree of certainty,

18 the time YOU Hent to the Mayor ' s house , and told him that

19 your partners agreed to the payment? Do you remember

20 testifying to that?

21 What date Has that?

22 A I don ' t recall the date,

23 Q What month?

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A September ,

Q September?

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Padredo - Cross -

A September . before the bidding. the open bidding for that

project. Esperanzo .

Q Before the open bidding?

A Aha .

Q 150 thousand was agreed was in September. 1982. When

yoU say the open bidding . are you talking about when the

package Has picked UP . when the evaluation . when the bids

were opened?

What are YOU talking about?

A When the bid has the be presented .

Q That was September 30th . Can YOU tell us . as best YOU

can recoil. had you gone before September 30th YOU Here

there?

A Can be a week .

Q A week?

A Can be.

Q September 25th . 26th . 24th?

A 20th . 19th. 18th ,

Q Between the 18th and the 25th?

A Between the 18th and the 25th .

Q 18th and the 25th .

After the meeting with your par tners . this meeting

at the "oyor's house Has at night . was it not?

A No . I think it was not the night.

Q You think it was or was not?

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Padreda - Cross -

A Was not . 1

2 Q Do you recall, sir, testifying under oath before a

3 Federal Grand Jury on October 23, 19901 Mr. Chaykin was

4 asking YOU questions . You had sworn to tell the truth. You

5 were there. Do YOU recall that?

6 A Yes . I recall that .

7 Q May I ask YOU if YOU recall these Questions and answers :

8 Page 24.

9 Was it your thinking that you and your partners

10 would they then have to cash a check at the bank or convert

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it to cash?

ANSWER: We never discussed that issue. I went to

my partners . I told my partners that what the request was.

14 And we had a meeting. What happened with Mr . Sacasa and Mr.

15 Osorio was we hod a meeting, and we discussed that 150,000.

16 We never come with the conviction of whether or

17 not we were going to paYor the way we were going to pay.

18 QUESTION: What was your understanding from that

19 and the contents of your conversation with Raul Martinez?

20 What would have happened if yOU did not pay?

21 I don't think I would have got the proJect.

22 Skipping .

23 If you wanted the proJect, YOU have to pay; is

24 that your question?

25 QUESTION : Yes.

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ANSWER: Okay .

QUESTION : In order for you ta pay it , you would

have to include that somehow in your cast?

ANSWER: That ' s correct .

QUESTION: Did your partners agree to that

proposal?

ANSWER : My partners agreed to that proposal.

Q That was the meeting with your partners?

A That·s correct .

QUESTION : As a result , did there come a time when

YOU then had another meeting with Raul Martinez to advise

him about this?

ANSWER : The date we would have the meeting with

my partners, I went bock to Martinez' house that night,

first the night of the meeting, and I told him my partners

agreed ta do that .

You swore to that before---

A Yes.

Q Does that refresh your recollection that this meeting

what was at night?

A The meeting was at night. yes.

Q At this meeting, when you went to that house that I have

shown you in the picture , I believe yOU testi tied that I'Ir ,

Cardona was there . Is that correct ; or was he?

A Cardona was in the back of the house: that ' s correct ,

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1 Q Cardona?

2

3

A Has in the house, yes .

Q Hhere?

4 A He was in the rear of the house .

5 Q Rear of the house?

6 A Yes .

7 Q I think you told us "r . Cardona was doing remodeling in

8 the house?

9 A He was not doing it himself , but remodeling was dane or

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was doing it at that time .

Q He was a supervisor : he was not pointing, himself?

A That ' s correct.

Q I think you also told us at that first meeting "r.

14 Cardona and the mayor showed yoU what they were doing,

15 extending the Florida Room or putting in additional things .

16 There were people working in the house . You can see the

17 tools, correct?


19 Q September 30 , 1982, were the bids. You testified that

20 yOU were in Texas that day. Then when I showed you t he

21 document that your wife swore you testified to beforehand ,

22 yOU testified yOU might be he re . Your best recollection is

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yOU don · t know where YOU were?

A "y recollection Is that I was in Texas . I signed the

papers before I went to Texas , and date it and the papers

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1

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was prepared by Alfredo Osorl0 , and I slgn lt before I left .

Q Your wlfe swore to It?

3 A That ' s correct .

4 Q You are ln Texas when the blds were over?

5 A When the deal was open or when the deal was presented?

6 Q When the blds were opened, where were YOU when the blds

7 were opened?

8 A I don ' t recall when the blds was open. When the blds

9 was presented September 30th I was ln sesslon .

10 Q You actually dld not have very much to do wlth thls

11 proJect. You were worrled about Texas . Texas was the

12 proJect yOU were supervlslng yourself, were you not?

13 A That ' s correct.

14 Q Whether when yOU talked to your partners about the 150,

15 lt was to Osorl0. Sacosa was not there , the 3rd partner?

16 A No. I don't thlnk--I don ' t thlnk he was there.

17 Q The next tlme between September 18th , 25th, 1982 , and

18 the wlthdrowal of your proposal, you dld not , between those

19 dates , gO to the ~ayor ' s house, the wlthdrawal of the

20 proposal was December 13th. I thlnk I sold December , but

21 December 13th, 1982 . That has been establlshed that ' s the

22 dates of the meetlng?


24 Q Between these dates you hod not been to the ~ayor's

25 house , accordlng to your testimony?

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Padreda - Cross -

A I don ' t recall , 1

2 Q Had YOU talked to the mayor between September 18. 1985,

3 and YOU agreed YOU said and after this meeting?

4 A My recollection I talked to the mayor on the phone,

5 Q When?

6 A After I was indicted,

7 Q You were indicted--the indictment reads November 9th .

8 1982, So between November 9th and December 13th YOU think

9 YOU talked to the mayor?

10 A Yes ,

11 Q Did YOU call him?

12 A I don't recall if I called him or if he called me,

13 Q Where were you?

14 A I was in Miami, I was in Texas, I don't recall exactly

15 where I was,

16 Q You don't recall where you were?

17 A No,

18 Q You don't know who called who?

19 A No , I don ' t remember,

20 Q Do yoU have an independent recollection today of the

21 conversation?

22 A No . I have not ,

23 Q So the best you can tell us there was a phone

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conversation in that period of time?

A I believe so,

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Padreda - Cross -

1 Q After the propo sal was withdrawn on December 13th, 1982,

( 2 YOU had told us and the Government has shown YOU you r

3 hospital records that YOU went to the hospital on December

4 15th, 1982 . You were operated r ight after that on the 16th,

5 were yoU not?

6 A 16th or 17th .

7 Q Showing YOU Government · s Exhibit 84 for identification ,

8 shows yOU a discharge , does it not , on the 20th?

9 A Correct.

10 Q The Government pointed out to you there was a place that

11 showed the dotes you Here admitted. You took these notes to

12 the Government, did YOU not?

13 A At their request .

14 Q The answer is , yes , at their request?

15 A At their request .

16 Q They did not get them from the hospital . You gave them

17 to them?

18 A They asked me to pick UP my records in the hospital .

19 Q This shows , sir , you were admitted December 15, 1982 ,

20 correct?

21 A Correct.

22 Q That is what I put UP there, hosPital , admitted .

23 Between the evening of December 13, after the

24 proposal was withdrawn, do yOU follow me? , ~ 25 A Yes .

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a Between the evening of December 13th, when the proposal

was withdrawn , do YOU follow me , sir?

A Yes .

a Between the evening of December 13th when the proposal

was withdrawn , and the day YOU went to the hosPital,

December 15 , 1982, that would be the one date, the 14th?

A Correct .

a On December 14th , sir , YOU testified that you had a

meeting , did YOU not, with vour partners?

A Correct .

a That was 1n the doyt1me, was 1t not?

12 A Yes .

13 a That would be December 14, 1982, meet1ng par tners. That

14 was, YOU told us , what came to be the memo, Defendant's

15 Exh1b1t 39 for ident1ficat1on, correct?

16 A Yes .

17 a You told us "r . Sacasa would have been the one who wrote

18 this memo?

19 A He always wr1te the memos.

20 a This is the onlv memo YOU provided to the Government, 1s

21 it not?


23 a So we are talk1ng about the same th1ng?

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A Yes .

a D1d vou gO back , sir, to the "avor ' s house, same house

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Padreda - Cross -

1 YOU went to here , after December 13th, and before that

( 2 meeting or after that meeting and before YOU went to the

3 hospital?

4 A As I said before, I no remember if it was December 13th

5 at night after I have a meeting with "r. Osorio at my house

6 or December 14, after having a meeting with my partners in

7 the office.

8 Q On either occasion , it was not at night?

9 A The 13th or 14th.

10 Q Either the 13th or 14th, it was at night?


12 Q If it was the 13th, it was af ter the proposal was

13 withdrawn , was it not?

14 A Correct .

15 Q After Osorio came to your house?

16 A Yes , sir .

17 Q After he told YOU the proposal was withdrawn?


19 Q If it was on the 14th , it would have been sometime 10 ,

20 10:30, eleven o' clock?

21 A I don ' t recall , but it have to be after eight .

22 Q After eight?

23 A A hum .

( 24 Q This is a day YOU were in extreme pain , were YOU not?

- 25 A I have been in pain for two or months .

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1 Q The answer is yes?

2 A The answer is I have been in pain for two or months.

3 Q Were YOU in pain on December 13th is my question?

4 A The answer is, yes. I said I have been 1n pain for two

5 or three months .

6 Q You were still able to gO bock to Texas to ride on the

7 planes and gO into high altitude and do Your work, were YOU

8 not?

9 A That·s correct.

10 Q Were YOU under medication?

11 A Yes.

12 Q What were YOU taking?

13 A Something for the pain kill .

14 Q You were taking pain killers?

15

16 that?

If it was on December 14th, what time at night was

17 A Can be eight. Can be 9. Can be 7: 30. I don' t have a

18 recollection.

19 Q Seven thirty to nine?

20 A Seven thirty to nine.

21 Q I think YOU said eight to 9 p.m. at night. December

22 14th can be 7:30. What was the latest do you think it was?

23 A I don·t have a recollection from---

24 Q Seven thirty.

25 A To nine.

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Q At this meeting on December 14th or 13th. whichever . at

night . you also testified I believe this Mr . Cardona was

present?

A Mr . Cardona was there.

Q That is Antonio Cardona?

A Antonio Cardona.

Q You had known him at thot time for 10 years?

A Yes. about 10 years.

Q You actually had done business with Vincente Leal when

they were partners in Miami concrete?

A That ' s correct .

Q Mr . Cardona was there. and where did the meeting between

yOU and

A Yes,

I believe yoU said somebody else was there too?

Q Was that Mr. Gonzalez?

A I don't recall who it was,

Q Let me show yoU Government ' s exhibit number 79 . a

picture . Can yOU tell us. sir . who yoU recognized. if

anyone . in that picture?

A Antonio Cardona .

Q That ' s the man on the left . the bold headed man .

correct?

A Correct, I don ' t recall him . I think this was a lady

who worked at the housing authority .

Q Pat Casteel?

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A I don't recall the nome,

Q Lindo Loddo?

3 A I don't recall the name . And this is the director of

4 the housing authority .

5 Q The man who is seated?

6 A Yes.

7 Q This man?

8 A Right .

9 Q Joe Morganti .

10 A I know him .

11 Q And Cardona?

12 A Cardona.

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Q The others you don ' t recognize?

A No .

Q When YOU went there, after Mr . Osorio talked to YOU,

when YOU went to the Moyor's house , it had to be after

17 Osorio talked to you?

18 A Co r rect .

19 Q Cardona was present and another man?

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A Correct.

Q They showed YOU , again, the remodeling they had done?

A No .

Q There was no showing yoU around at that time?

A No , sir .

Q The meeting that occurred was in the what room?

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A Living room .

a That was the time YOU were bleeding?

A Yes , sir .

Q Do YOU recall saYing, "r have to gO to the hospital

right away"?

A Correct .

Q You were seated on the sofa?

A Correct .

Q Was Angela ~artinez there?

-' A Yes.

a Do YOU recall when yoU bled on the sofa , she said ,

"don · t worry about it; I will clean it up"?

A That ·s correct.

a Do yoU recall yoU were token out to the car by ~r.

~artinez and put in the car ; ~ayor ~artinez helped YOU out

to the car?

A I can walk myself.

a I understand that.

A I don · t understand your Question . I have to be helped .

To help me?

Q Did he gO out with YOU to the car?

A ~aybe so .

a Was ~rs. ~artinez present when YOU were talking to the

mayor, or did she come in after YOU unfortunately had your

accident, with the sofa?

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Padreda - Cross -

1 A I think she was preparing coffee .

2 Q At that meeting , if I understand , YOU said that somebody

3 told yOU, why did yOU withdraw your proposal ; it was best

4 and you should have gone through with it?

5 A Will yoU repeat that question . I don't understand . I

6 am sorry,

7 Q It is my understanding you went there; you said, "I had

8 to withdraw the proposal "?


10 Q In answer to that , YOU received an answer from one of

11 the people that were there , either ~r , Cardona , the other

12 person you said was from the housing authority or the mayor ,

13 Who said what?

14 A The proposal was the best proposal , And that I have the

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vote to get awarded the proposal.

Q To win?

17 A To win ,

18 Q And yOU should not have withdrawn?


20 Q Do YOU recall whether it was the unidentified person in

21 the housing authority that was there or whether it was Mr .

22 Cardona or whether it wos the mayor who said those words?

23 A I think it was the mayor ,

24 Q Were the other two present when he said that?

25 A Yes .

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Padreda - Cross -

Q Was the money discussed?

A Never.

Vnl In .• ?n ,

Q Then the money HQS not discussed between September 18,

25th? It Has never discussed again, Has it?

A That's correct. Never.

Q Let me ask you if you recall these questions and these

anSHers : Page 26. Do you recall during the course of this

time whether or not you met an individual by the name of

Antonio Cardona?

Your anSHer: Yes. I Has in his house .

QUESTION : ~r. Cordona yOU knew from various

business experiences prior to that?

ANSWER: 10 years before.

QUESTION: Do YOU recoIl seeing Mr . Cordona

present at Raul Martinez house at the time you Hent over

there to accept the bid?

Q Accept the bid. I assume you Here talking about accept

the 150 thousand?

A I SOH Mr . Cardona tHice in the house .

QUESTION: That is correct. Yes , sir. What did

yOU understand Mr. Cardona to be dOing there? Do yOU knoH

Hhat he Has doing?

ANSWER: Yeah, yeah . He Has remodeling Mr .

Martinez house.

QUESTION : Do you knoH that from talking to Raul

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1 Martinez?

2 ANSWER : I SOH the Hork done and I SOH Cardona

3 there durlng the work .

4 Q When YOU SOH Cardona there dolng the Hork , that Has on

5 September 18 through 25 , 1982, Has lt not?

6 A Yes.

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Q There were no people there he was supervlslng?

A That ·s correct .

Q You dld not actually see hlm dolng the work he told yOU

10 he was supervlslng?

11 A That · s what he told me .

12 Q Do YOU recall testlfYlng, slr , that before thls Federal

13 Grand Jury, under oath , that your meetlngs with Raul

14 Martinez all occurred ln August , September , October and

15 November?

16 A Yes, slr .

17 Q Was that a mlstake?

18 A The meetlng referring to Esperanza?

19 Q Yes.

20 A Occurred before September, ln Sectember and December .

21 Q Page eleven and 12 .

22 QUESTION: The meetlngs we are talking about wlth

23 Raul Martinez wlth respect to the Esperanza Project all

24 occurred ln August , September , October , November of that

25 year . Is that correct?

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Answer by you; That is correct .

Q Was that Just a mistake? You forgot December?

3 A That I forgot December , yes . That was a mistake.

4 Q What involvement, lf any. between September 30th, when

5 the blds went ln , and December 13th, when the proposal was

6 wlthdrawn, dld yOU have with the Esperanza ProJect?

7 A Will yOU repeat the Question, for clarification.

8 Q You are bock and forth to Texas?

9 A Correct .

10 Q You are worklng ln Texas wlth a large project?

11 A Correct .

12

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14

Q You are in pain?

A Yes . sir .

Q You are taklng paln pills . All I am asking yOU , sir,

15 is: Can you tell me. ls it not true, between November 30

16 and December 13th, in-between that, YOU were lndicted

17 between those dates you were virtually not involved with

18 this project?

19 A That · s correct .

20 Q "organti or Cardona never brought the proposal to you to

21 be changed, did they?

22 A To myself?

23 Q To you?

24 A No.

25 Q You never said, "toke it to Osorlo?"

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1 A No ,

2 Q That did not happen?

3 A No,

4 Q You had nothing to do, ~hatsoever , Hith Morganti or

5 Cardona as far as the changing of the plans?

6 A No , sir , I Has informed--I ~as called to Texas , that

7 the package have come back to my office , in order to change

8 a pitch of the roof ,

9 Q That Has by Mr , Osorio Hho called you?

10 A That ' s correct,

11 Q Other than that YOU Here not involved?

12 A No , sir ,

13 Q Other than this Federal Grand Jury that you testified

14 under oath , the other meetings you had Here either these

15 prosecutor ' s or the Federal Bureau of Investigation or other

16 federal prosecutor's , Peter Outerbridge or other federal

17 prosecutor ' s, you told us consumed about 20 hours?

18 A In the Esperanza Project?

19 Q No , All your testimony?

20 A More than that,

21 Q Thirty hours? Can He say Esperanza Has about 20 hours?

22 A Maybe 12 ,

23 Q 12 hours?

24 A Maybe thi r ty , I cannot anSHer that question ,

25 Q I understand , Time flies Hhen yOU are there , and I

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Padreda - Cross -

understand, but is 12 or 13 a reasonable time?

A Can be .

Q During those times they were asking YOU questions and

4 you were giving them answers?

S A That·s correct.

6 Q Showing yOU documents?


8 Q You were going over your best recollection at that time

9 of what hod occurred. concerning Esperanza?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q That was not where YOU sot down Just one day, it was a

12 number of days for a number of hours each day, was it not?


14 Q Do yOU recall who you met with? Did yOU meet with Mr .

lS Chaykin?

16 A No at that meeting. I don·t think he was in the

17 meeting.

18 Q Did you Mr. Udolf?

19 A I think he was at one of the meetings or two. I don·t

20 recall .

21 Q Did you meet with this FBI agent here?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Was he by himself, or was he with somebody else?

24

2S

A It was between five and seven.

Q People?

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Padreda - Cross -

A People.

Q They were all aS king YOU questions?

A Yes.

Q And would yoU answer?

A Yes.

Q Before testifying last week. did you have an opportunity

sometime Just before testifying. if not the day . within a

couple of days . to sit down with Mr. Chaykin and gO over

your testimony?

A I believe I went to sit down with Mr. Chaykin about a

week and a half ago . maybe more than . I don · t recall . No .

Two days ago .

Q A week and a half?

A Maybe .

Q The night before you testified. did yOU talk to them?

A No . I wos sitting in the office waiting.

Q To testify?

A To Testify . And at 0 Quarter to five they tell me I can

gO home.

Q The last meeting before yOU testified . was that with Mr.

Chayk1n?

A That was with Mr . Chaykin .

Q He was alone or was Mr . Udolf with him. or the FBI?

A I think the 3 of them was there .

Q They were going over your testimony?

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Padreda - Cross -


2 Q You have not, have YOU, met ~ith anybody from the

3 defense? You have not met ~ith me, Mrs. Greer?

4 A No.

S Q Let me sho~ yOU a picture, ~e hod talked about Porto Del

6 Sol .

7 THE CLERK : Defendant ' s Exhibit 42 marked for

8 identification.

9 Q Porto Del Sol is a project you built in Hialeah; is it

10 not?

11 A That's correct .

12 Q Showing yOU Defendant·s Exhibit number 42, does that

13 look like the front of the building, Porta Del Sol? Is that

14 the same building we are talking about?

lS

16

A Yes .

Q 43 , 44 and 45? You built that building after Esperanza

17 ~as completed , did yOU nat?

18 A Yes, sir .

19 Q Was that sometime in . 85, . 86, . 87?

20 A Bet~een '86 and ' 87.

21 Q That building was through I think yOU said the

22 Volunteers of America?


24 Q It ~as turned over to them. The City of Hialeah had

25 nothing to do ~ith that building?

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Padreda - Cross -

1 A No. To the best ever my knowledge, no, sir .

2 Q Let me show YOU these pictures . Are these different

3 pictures of Porto Del Sol?

4 A Yes .

5 Q Referring to 43 , 44 and 45 . When Porta Del Sol was

6 going to be opened there was on opening ceremony , was there

7 not?

8 A Yes .

9 Q You had invited Senator Paulo Hawkins to that opening?

10 A That·s correct .

11 Q You hod raised funds for Senator Hawkins, had yOU not?

12 A Yes .

13 Q That was one of the people you raised money for her

14 campaign?


16 Q Was the mayor there?

17 A Yes .

18 Q Had you requested, as a favor for him , to come even

19 though he was a registered Democrat and Hawkins was a

20 Republican?

21 A Yes .

22 Q You mentioned on direct examination and organization

23 called the Latin Builders Association?

24 A If I mention?

25 Q On direct examination , if I recall correctly , you talked

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Padreda - Cross -

about being one of the early formers of the Latin Building

Association?

A That ' s correct ,

Q That was way back , was it not , in the early 1970 ' s?

A Sir ,

Q That was back in the early 1970 ' s , was it not?

A That ' s correct.

Q In the early 1970's , when yOU formed that organization ,

and I don ' t mean yOU did it alone , but it was formed for a

specific purpose, was it not?

A Yes , sir .

Q The purpose being that there were a number of , 1970 ,

' 71 , '72, a number of small Latin contractors and workers?

A Subcontractors .

Q Subcontractors who were not getting a piece of the pie ,

were they?

A That was not the question . The reason they were--we

would call it harassment, because they don't have a person

or the qualified person on the Job ,

Q They were being harassed?

A Yes.

Q By building inspectors . City of ~iami could not get

permits; that type of thing?

A By inspectors ,

Q You knew , did you not, as well as the other members of

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1 that organization that there is power in numbers? -... 2 A Will YOU repeat again that Question.

3 Q You got everybOdy together , and when I say YOU, I mean

4 the organization got together to lobby and have some

5 political clout, did YOU not?

6 A We meet in our office about six people, five , six

7 people .

8 Q To start?

9 A To start .

10 Q It grew to how big?

11 A Over a thousand members.

12 Q When I say clout, do YOU understand what I am talking

13 about?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Politically. Politically that became a strong

16 organization, did it not?

17 A Yes, sir .

18 Q Politics is runnino for State Senatorial , municipal, and

19 other elections wanted your support?


21 Q At one time you were preSident , were you not , of that

22 organization?


24 Q That was in 19---r • 25 A ' 77 .

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1 Q 1976 and 1977. How large was that organization at that

2 time?

3 A No more than 120 .

4 Q Even at that time YOU continued to gO to those meetings,

5 attend those meetings ond to be a supporting member , did you

6 not?

7 A Yes.

8 Q UP until Just recently or maybe still today?

9 A I am a member.

10 Q Politicians or people who were seeking public office

11 would come to those meetings , those parties, get togethers

12 and make speechs and talk to everybody and say what they

13 would do far the Latin builders, would they not?

14 A Yes.

15 Q You actually endorsed people running for public office ,

16 would you not?

17 A Yes .

18 Q And buy flip adds and say the Latin Builders Association

19 supports John Jones for the Senate or whatever?

20 A That's correct .

21 Q At the time yOU had the ~iami Concrete Company , Raul

22 ~artinez was running and started El Sol De Hialeah; do yOU

23 recall that?

24 A I don't recall that.

25 Q Do you recall him interviewing you and doing a big

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Podreda - Cross -

1 article in his newspaper on ~iami Concrete?

2

3

4

A No, sir . I don't recall .

~R . HOGAN : ~ark it for identification .

THE CLERK: Defendant ' s Exhibit 46 marked for

5 identification.

6 Q I show YOU Defendant's Exhibit for identification

7 newspaper El Sol De Hialeah, Hialeah , Florida , April 13th ,

8 1972 . See if YOU recall , after looking at that article,

9 that newspaper was in Spanish, was it not?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Did YOU ever see that article on YOU and your company.

12 A I believe this type of ad was almost every newspaper in

13 the Spanish, the same type of support for Tony Garcia and

14 more or less the same type.

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22 about that YOU had some business relation in selling

23 concrete to ~r. Cardona and ~r . Leal?

24 A That ' s cor rect .

25 Q Was Antonio Cardona a member of the Latin Builders

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Padreda - Cross -

Association , do YOU ~now?

A I don ' t recall ,

Q How about Vincente Leal?

A I don't recall,

Q When ~r , Osorio come to see YOU after December 13th,

1982 , the meeting , did he tell YOU, in addition to having to

withdraw , that they hod discovered that you hod forgotten to

put in your plans a sewer that would have to travel from

Esperanza six or seven bloc~s that would cost four to

500,000 that was left out of the plans?

A No, I don't recall that ,

Q You never recall hearing that?

A No ,

Q Did YOU discuss that at the December 14 meeting , the one

YOU mode the memo of?

A No ,

Q When YOU went to the ~ayor's house one of these two

nights , do YOU recall, when YOU arrived , was ~r , Cardona

already present?

A I believe he was ,

Q He did not come in after you were there , He was there

when you got there?

A That's correct ,

Q Did you ~now ~r , Cardona ' s portner , ~r , Alphonso Romas?

A Alphonso?

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Padreda - Cross -

1 Q I may have it wrong. Alphonso Ramos ?

2 A No, sir .

3 Q Do YOU recall, sir , sometime before YOU were indicted or

4 sometime before December 13th, 1982 , "r . Cardona coming to

5 your office ; seeing YOU , giving yOU the blueprints and the

6 proposal; you, directly? Do you recall that?

7 A No .

8 Q Never have?

9 A Not to me. Never was given to me .

10 Q Do you recall them coming and saying here they are and

11 you saying give those to Osorio?

12 A I don't recall that .

13 Q Did it happen?

14 A I don ' t think so.

15 Q Since yOU have been here , do you know what the boards

16 were? Do you know what I am talking about ; what boards? Do

17 yOU know what I am speaking of?

18 A Yes, sir .

19 Q Showing you Government ' s exhibit 127 , purporting to be

20 on artists rendering of Esperanza , did YOU ever see thct,

21 sir , before December 13 of 1982?

22 A I think it is the first time I see it .

23 Q Today?

24 A Today .

25 Q Is that your board that YOU had?

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Padreda - Cross -

A I don't know , sir,

Q Do YOU know that YOU had any boards such as this?

3 A No , sir ,

4 Q Show YOU Government's exhibit number 128 in evidence,

5 purporting to be a site plan, did YOU ever see , in your

6 proposal , any board such as that?

7 A No , sir ,

8 Q Did YOU ever see any boards such as that or blueprints

9 such as that for any other proposal?

10 A I don ' t recall ,

11 Q Showing YOU Government's Exhibit number 125, conceptual

12 landscaping site plan, did yoU ever see such a board as

13 that?

14 A No , sir ,

15 Q Since YOU have talked to the Government , have they ever

16 shown YOU any boards from your proposal that was submitted

17 on September 30 , 1982, and acted uPon December 13th, 1982;

18 any boards such as this?

19 A No , they have not ,

20 Q Do you know where those boards would be today if they

21 were 1n existence?

22 A No , I hOve no ideo,

23 Q Did you move out of Sacasa's and Osorio ' s office or did

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they move out of your office sometime after December 13th,

1982?

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Padreda - Cross -

1 A I personally moved out .

2 Q You were all--as of this time period yOU, Sacasa,

3 Osirio , Cardoso and Padreda between this time were all in

4 the some office were yOU not?


6 Q I don ' t mean YOU were all in the some office, but you

7 all hod offices in the some suite?


9 Q How soon after this did YOU move out after December 137

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14

A I don ' t have any ideo when by but it was after I get out

of the hospital.

Q It was sometime early in 1983?

A 19

Q ' 837


16 Q Did yau take your documents and your files , and your

17 proposals with you?

18 A No , I don ' t have too take anything.

19 Q You did not toke anything?

20 A No , sir ,

21 Q Where did YOU get that memo.

22 A It was one 1n the file when we get the Joint venture .

23 Q Joint venture?

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A Joint venture .

Q Which Joint venture?

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Padreda - Cross -

1

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A All the JOint ventures we have Mr . Sacasa ' s group.

Q That was in one of the files?

3 A That was one inside file .

4 Q That was the only document pertaining to Esperanza .

5 A I don·t took any file or any document or any plans in

6 reference to the Esperanza Project or any other project .

7 Q I understand, but in December of 1990 you gave this

8 document to the Government . Is that correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Where did you get this in December of 1990?

11 A In the file, which was a file called business with

12 Sacasa ' s group .

13 Q In your office?

14 A In my office.

15 Q That was the only document that was ever in there?

16 A To The best of my recollection that was the only

17 document I have there.

18 Q Who selected the architect, David Perez, for the

19 Esperanza ProJect?

20 A Myself .

21 Q He was a famous, well qualified, knowledgeable

22 professional architect?

23 A That · s correct.

24 Q Had done Hork for 0 number of developers , including Mr.

25 Emmer?

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A Yes.

Q And you?


Padreda - Cross -

4 Q Had somewhat of a distinctive style?

5 A Sir.

Vnl In_<7

6 Q Did he have somewhat of a distinctive style, or was he

7 Just a competent architect?

8 A He was a good architect .

9 Q Did yoU, sir, convince him. David Perez, to change any

10 plans?

11 A Not to the best of my knowledge .

12 Q Did yOU talk to him about such a thing?

13 A To Change a plan?

14 Q To change the roof.

15 A I think that was "r. Osorio.

16 Q The answer is yOU did not?

17 A I don·t remember talking to him. to ask him to change

18 the roof .

19 Q Do YOU think. sir. if yOU asked him to change the rOOf.

20 after September 30. 1982. and before December 13th. 1982?

21 A I don't recall telling him to change anything .

22 Q What I asked you. sir. do yoU think that would be a

23 significant event . that you would recall?

24 A I don't believe that change was so significant . big

25 problem or anything.

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Padreda - Cross -

1 Q Not so significant? -I. 2 A No .

3 Q Between September 30, 1982 and December 30, 1982,

4 showing YOU Government·s exhibit number 106 , which is in

5 evidence , which is the Padreda proposal to the Hialeah

6 Housing Authority.

7 A Yes .

8 Q You recognize that document, do yoU not?

9 A Yes .

10 Q Did yOU, sir, during that period of time open UP this

11 binding, taKe it out, insert different pages ; speaKing of

12 yOU , did you, yourself?

13 A I have not done that .

14 Q The answer then is no , is it not?


16 Q You did not do it with anyone else present. You were

17 not there . If it was done yOU were not a participant ,

18 correct?

19 A No , sir.

20 Q It is correct that yOU were not a participant?


22 Q Did you ever give Osorio another proposal from another

23 competitor in the Esperonza ProJect?

24 A If I give to Osorio . (

25 Q Another proposal from another developer?

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Padreda - Cross -

A No , sir .

Q On December 13th , 1982, were YOU and Mr . Osorio together

3 immediately preceding in the hours before Mr . Osorio went to

4 the meeting to present your proposal?

5 A Will you repeat that , if yOU don·t mind .

6 Q December 13th, 1982, that is the day of the meeting?

7 A Correct .

8 Q The meeting started at 4:00, five o'clock in the

9 afternoon according to the documents . Prior to that time ,

10 prior to 4:30 , five o'clock December 13 , we re you in the

11

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office with Mr . Osorio?

A I have no recollection . I can be in the office.

Q You have no independent recollection?

14 A No , sir .

15 Q The only thing yOU recall relating to Osorio on that

16 date was that he come to your house after the meeting?

17 A I would soy , no , after the meeting . I would soy after

18 he withdraw from the b1d ,

19 Q After he withdraw?

20 A Which is way before the meeting , or before the meeting .

21 Q Before the meeting. He withdraw before the meeting?

22 A Before they award or b~fore they both .

23 Q What time was it , do you have any ideo?

24 A I have no ideo .

25 Q Hod he called yoU prior to coming over?

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Podreda - Cross -

1 A No, He come directly to my house.

2

3

Q You were at home ,

A I was at home,

4 Q Prior to this time. had you talked to the mayor . prior

S to Osorio com1ng over?

6 A No,

7 Q Did you talk to anyone concern1ng--- That was the first

8 time you learned of the withdrawal . was 1t not?

9 A At my house,

10 Q When Osorio told you?

11 A That · s correct ,

12 Q Had David Perez done other HUD ProJects with you? He

13 was familiar with HUD . was he not?

14 A Yes ,

15 Q He had done other projects for you and he was familiar?

16 I asked two questions ,

17 A Both Questions. yes,

18 Q It is not unusual for a person such as yourself . who is

19 a fund raiser for politicians to ask favors for those

20 politicians . is it?

21 A No ,

22 Q You have a daughter who you requested Sergio Pereira to

23 employ. and she actually scored highest on the test . did she

24 not?

2S A Yes . sir,

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Q You as~ed him if he can find a Job for her?

A That's correct .

Vnl In_Ltl

Q You signed your plea agreement on September 26. 1990.

We went through that Yesterday extensively. Do YOU recall

the date or do YOU wish me to show it to YOU again?

A I don·t recall the date. no.

"R. HOGAN: I thin~ we moved it in as a

Government ' s Exhibit. did we not?

Q Let me show YOU Government·s exhibit number 8. United

States of America versus Camilo Padreda; case number

90-739-Cr- Judge King .

Then I am going to show you. sir--- Your attorney

at the time was Sam Robin. was he not?

A Yes .

a Attached to this is a Signature that is dated. your

dote . December 26. 1990. Do YOU see that?

A That · s correct ,

a The dote YOU signed the plea agreement was December 26.

1990.

That was pursuant to an information, was it not?

There was not a Grand Jury indictment . You waived

"R. CHAYKIN: I thin~ this is repetitious.

"R. HOGAN : I did not gO into the information.


Q There was no Grand Jury indictment pursuant to the

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Padreda - Cross -

1 information. You Haived indictment . They filed an

2 information?


4 Q That Has filed over the signature . Has it not , of

5 ~arcella Cohen , Acting United States Attorney?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Just prior to signing this plea agreement , yoU had a

8 corporation, did YOU not, called Cipi Corporation?

9 A Yes .

10 Q What type of corporation Has Cipi Corporation? Was that

11 a contract builder?

12 A Yes .

13 Q You Here the one hundred percent OHner of that?

14 A Yes .

15 Q On September 24th , tHO days before you filed bankruptcy

16 in that corporation , did YOU not?


18 Q At the time , sir , YOU filed bankruptcy tHo days before

19 the pleo agreement , YOU filed only as to that corporation ,

20 did yoU not? You did not file personal bankruptcy?


22 Q ShortlY after your plea agreement you filed a statement

23 of creditors, did yOU not?

24 A That ' s correct . (

25 Q And at the time of the bonkruptcy yOU oHed one million I I

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Padreda - Cross -

four hundred fourteen thousand to subcontractors , did YOU

not?

A That's correct ,

Q At the same time YOU filed bankruptcy in that

corporation, sir , August 1, 1990, YOU filed a financial

statement where your personal net worth was, along with your

wife, was $217,000; was that correct?

A Yes , sir ,

Q Shortly after your plea, sir, YOU and your wife bought a

$535,000 building, did YOU not?

A That's correct ,

Q That building was bought under the name J and P

Advisors, was it not?

A That's correct,

Q That was a building that was to be used as a clinic, was

it not?

A That's correct ,

Q A clinic dealing with "edicare and Medicaid patients?

A That's correct ,

Q Receiving payments from the federal government?

A For any institution that he had ,

Q What I am saying is your patients are covered by either

the Federal Medicare or State Medicaid ,

A And also private and also insurance,

Q Those federal funds are paid directly to YOU, are they

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Padreda - Cross -

not?

A To The old med1cal serv1ce.

Q Wh1ch 1s a corporat10n. Who owns 1t?

A My w!fe.

o The bu1ld1ng 1s owned by J and P Adv1sors, 1s 1t not?

6 A That's correct.

7 0 You test1f1ed Yesterday that YOU were pres1dent of that

8 corporat1on?

9 A I don't th1nk I test1f1ed I was pres1dent of the

10 corporat10n.

11 Q Were you the pres1dent of the corporat10n?

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13

14

15

A No, s1r, I am not.

o Do YOU have any ownersh1p 1nterest 1n the corporat1on?

A No, I have not .

o Do YOU draw any funds? Are YOU an off1cer of that

16 corporat10n?

17 A No, I am not.

18 Q Yet?

19 A Not yet .

20 Q Do YOU work there?

21 A I work there.

22 Q That corporat10n 1s owned 100 percent by your w1fe?

2~ A That·s correct.

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o Your w1fe had no 1nterest 1n C1p1 Corporat10n?

A No.

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1 Q None at all?

2 A No .

3 Q I think YOU told us YOU hod raised or hod raised , to the

4 best of YOur recollection , funds for the ~ayor of Hialeah?


6 Q For his political campaign?


8 Q I think YOU told us that amounted to three thousand

9 dollars?

10 A Four thousand .

11 Q Was that over a period of years or each compaign?

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A I would say in two or three campaigns .

Q You had asked -- YOU gave one thousand dollars yourself ,

did you?

A I don · t recall exactly hOH much I did .

16 Q It is not unusual for YOU to give one thousand dollars

17 to politicians?

18 A No.

19 Q You have raised funds for ~onolo Roboso?

20 A Yes .

21 Q ~aurice Ferre?

22 A Yes .

23 Q Demetrio Pe rez?

24 A No , sir .

25 Q Joe Corrola?

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Padredo - Cross -

1 A Yes .

t 2 Q Rosario Kennedy?

3 A Yes .

4 Q David Kennedy?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Steve Clark?

7 A Yes .

8 Q Clara OsterlY?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Jorge Valdez?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Sergio Pereira?

13 A I don · t recall. To give it tund raising to Sergio

14 Pereira.

15 Q Paula Hawkins?

16 A Yes, sir .

17 Q Gerald Lewis?

18 A Yes , sir.

19 Q Bill Gunther?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q Number ot Judges; State Court Judges?

22 A Yes , sir.

23 Q And others too numerous to mention?

24 A Yes .

25 Q Have yOU raised tunds for Ileana Ros-Lehtinen?

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Padreda - Cross -

"R . CHAYKIN : Objection.

THE COURT : Overruled .

"R . CHAYKIN: Can we approach?

Vnl 10-£17

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4 THE COURT: Answer the Question . Yes or no .

5 A Repeat the Question .

6 Q While YOU were under investigation , did YOU give a

7 thousand dollars to Ileana Ros-Leht1nen?

8 A Dur1ng the time I was in invest1gat10n I gave one

9 thousand to Ileana Ros .

10 Q Ileana Ros?

11 A Yes, sir . But not under my knowledge. It was under

12 1nvestigation.

13 Q You did not know?

14 A I had no 1dea at that time .

15 Q That donation was made August 3rd, 19897

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THE COURT : That is it . Objection sustained.

"R . HOGAN : I would like to approach .

THE COURT: You may .

(SIDEBAR)

"R. HOGAN : He made a donat i on to Ileana

21 Ros-Lehtinen for Congress on August 3rd, 1989 for a thousand

22 dollars . He made a statement since that time that if they

23 took the money , he did not think he would get indicted .

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25

In addition to that, when he was indicted Dexter

Lehtinen , because of th1s donat10n, recused himself.

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Padreda - Cross -

1 Marcella Cohen took over the investigation . He obtained her

( 2 resume and sent it to Washington , in order to have her favor

3 for the United States AttorneYs policy.

4 I only bring UP the second part because that is

5 what has been gOing on . I see no need to do it before the

6 Jury , unless the Court allows it . He was under

7 investigation . He gave his money and he testified all the

8 time he asked for favors to people he donates to .

9 THE COURT: I will not permit YOU to gO any

10 further . Objection sustained.

11 Anything else YOU want to proffer for the record?

12 MR. HOGAN : I proffer that he gave it to her while

13 he was under investigation. I proffer Dexter Lehtinen

14 recused himself. I proffer Marcella Cohen Has named acting

15 United States AttorneY for the prosecution of Mr . Padreda .

16 I proffer I Hill be able to prove he obtained

17 Marcella Cohen ' s resume ; sent it to his friend in

18 Washington , the committee to oppose her for the Attorney

19 Generals Job , in order for him to use his political

20 connections to keep from getting indicted .

21 THE COURT : You object to the proffer?

22 MR . CHAYKIN: Absolutely .

23 THE COURT : Objection is sustained .

( 24 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE CONCLUDED)

25 MR. HOGAN : That ' s all I have ,

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THE COURT : Redirect .

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

3 BY MR . CHAYKIN :

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4 Q "r . Padreda, how long has your wlfe been a business

5 woman?

6 A Slnce 1978 .

7 Q What klnd of buslnesses does she have?

8 A She own all F10rlda Carpet .

9 Q She has had her own buslness slnce then?

10 A Slr .

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Q Slnce 1978?

A 1978, 1979 .

Q Durlng that perlod of tlme, did she have on opportunlty

14 to accumulate her own financial resources?

15 A She had .

16 Q Mr. Hogan asked yOU about your Grand Jury testlmonY .

17 Wlth reference to my Questlon to yOU on page eleven and 12 ,

18 ln the beginning of the testimony, that the meetings-- my

19 Questlon was the meetlngs we are ta1klng about Raul Martlnez

20 wlth respect to the Esperanza Proj ect all occurred ln

21 August, September , October , November of that Year ; was that

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correct and YOU said that ls correct . That was my Question

to you?

A That ' s correct .

Q Dld YOU need to talk about the meeting of December 13th

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Padreda - Redirect -

and the rest of the Grand Jury testimony?

A No , I don't remember .

Q Do you recall talking about the December 13th meeting of

4 withdrawal .

5 A I remember saying that we withdraw from the bids .

6 Q Do yOU recall, during that Grand Jury testimony, talking

7 about when the withdrawal occurred in relationship to Your

8 hospitalization?

9 A Two days before my hospitalization .

10 Q You knew at that time, did YOU not, withdrawn.

11 Did yoU know at the time of the Grand Jury when

12 your hospitalization was?

13 A It was on the 14th, 15th, but I was not sure . I was

14 sure it was December because I was planning to have the

15 operation in December , to take a time off during the

16 Christmas time.

17 Q That was all discussed in front of the Grand Jury, was

18 it not?


20 Q Have YOU ever been shown your Grand Jury testimony?

21 A Sir .

22 Q Have yoU ever been shown Your Grand Jury testimony?

23 A No , sir.

24 Q You never read it before?

25 A No , I have not .

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Q Was Mr. Udolf or I involved in your prosecution at all?

A No .

3 Q To your knowledge, were we involved in any aspect of

4 your investigation?

5 A Outerbridge and another, Rice or something like that;

6 Andy Reich .

7 Q Other than going over your plea agreement with YOU in

8 preparation for testifying here today, was either Mr. Udolf

9 or myself involved in the negotiations in this plea

10 agreement?

11 A No, sir.

12 MR. HOGAN: Objection. He can·t testify to that.

13

14

Q To your knowledge.

THE COURT: Sustained.

15 Q Did Mr. Udolf and I ever negotiate we were ever involved

16 with you or your attorneys in negotiation for this plea

17 agreement?

18 A No.

19

20

21

22 done .

23

MR. HOGAN: Objection. Move to strike.

THE COURT: Grounds.

MR. HOGAN: He can·t say what his attorney has

THE COURT: I think his Question was whether these

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two dealt directly.

MR . HOGAN: He said you or your own attorney . I

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Padredo - Redirect -

ask the question be read back ,

THE COURT: Objection sustained ,

Q Were YOU present with your attorney during the

negotiations on the plea agreement?

A I was present with my attorney .

Q On all occasions?

A Not all occasions .

Q On those occasions that yoU were present with your

attorney negotiating your plea agreement. I am not talking

about anything else . Just negotiations of the plea

agreement. were either Mr . Udolf or I present during those

negotiations?

A No . sir .

Q Were either Mr . Udolf or I present at all at your

interviews with the agents?

A No . sir .

Q Had yOU been interviewed . and I think it is called

debriefed. had you ever heard that term before? Have you

ever been interviewed on topics other than the Esperanza

ProJect?

A Yes . sir .

Q How do you know? I think YOU said YOU knew Antonio

Cardona 10 yeors before the Esperanza ProJect?

A Yes .

Q How did yoU know him or in what capacity?

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A I know Mr. Cardona because he was a client of my

company . Miami Concrete .

Q How would yOU describe your relationship with him?

4 A Not a personal .

5 Q How would yOU compare it with your relationship to Raul

6 Martinez.

7 A I know Cardona Just by the nome because he HaS a client .

8 the name come to my attention many times because he was not

9 paid the bills in time, and we have some problem with him .

10 Q He was not a good customer?


12 Q That was during the period of time the Esperanza Project

13 was pending. Did you have an opinion as to the chances of

14 succeeding in getting that project?

15 MR. HOGAN : Objection. Relevance .

16 THE COURT : Overruled .

17 Q You may answer the question .

18 A Will you repeat again .

19 Q What I am trying to ask yoU what did you think your

20 chances were at the ti~e the Esperanza Project was pending

21 and your proposal was pending , what did yOU think your

22 chances were of succeeding?

23 A I think we got a very good chance.

24 Q Was there ever a time prior to December 13th, date of

25 the final meeting , you ever considered withdrawing that bid?

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A No, sir .

Q When YOU made a proposal, "r . Padreda, throughout the

3 years to either private or public institutions to do a

4 proJect, and you don·t win the proJect, what do you normally

5 do with the files and the papers of that proJect? What

6 normally happens to that?

7 A We throw it away .

8 Q Is there any reason to keep it?

9 A No reason.

10 Q Do you know what happened to your files on the Esperanza

11 Project after you withdrew your bid?

12 A I don't have any idea where they are.

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Q Did YOU take them with YOU when YOU left?

A No .

Q This purports to be--I think it is marked as Defendant's

Exhibit 46 which is---

17 THE COURT: For identification.

18 Q For identification, which is El Sol De Hialeah,

19 "R. HOGAN: He wants to show it to the Jury . I

20 have no objection to it coming in .

21 Q April 1, 1972, as a matter of fact. Do yOU recall

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whether or not your name and address and phone number of

your business was located anywhere on this purported

article?

A No , sir.

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Q Let me show it to YOU and see if that would refresh Your

recollection . Is that part of the same article dawn he re?

A Yes .

Q Does your street address and phone number appear?

A I don ' t see it , sir.

Q What is this address down below?

A The plant .

Q Whose plant?

A Miami Concrete plant.

Q Was that your plant?

A Yes , sir .

Q How does it differ from the news print? How is it

different in size in the news print?

A It is a big --

MR. HOGAN : It·s not in. He can·t testify to it.

THE COURT : Objection sustained .

Q You indicated on direct examination you indicated on

cross-examination , when Mr . Hogan asked YOU about that

article, that was an advertisement . Is that what your

understanding was, that Has on adverti sement?

A I believe it was .

Q Did YOU recall paying any money to have that article put

in there?

A I don · t have any ideo . Mr . Rodriguez was the treasurer ,

secretary treasurer of the corporation. and he handled that .

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Q Was it not . to your knowledge, customary to , with regard

to papers such as E1 Sol De Hialeah, other newspapers and

community newspapers that yOU could pay for newspaper

articles in there, to be put into the newspaper?

A Pay for the advertising.

Q And they would make it look like a newspaper article?

I'IR . HOGAN : ObJ ection . Leading .

THE COURT : Sustained .

Q How is it yOU did not gO to the meeting on December

13th?

A I don·t hear you.

Q How is it yOU did not gO to the meeting on December 13 ,

1982, the final meeting in which the bid was awarded?

A I was not here.

Q You were not there?

A No .

Q Why was that , do yOU recall?

A I was in my house .

Q Why were you at that house that evening?

A I was sick.

Q Do you recall when YOU noticed yOU intended on going to

the the meeting?

A No . I had no intention to gO to the meeting .

Q When yoU went to Raul Martinez ' house , what Has his

reaction when you told him about the withdrawal of the bid?

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Padredo - Redirect -

What was his reaction? How did he oct; not what he said,

but how did he act?

A He don ' t see a reason for withdraw of the bid .

4 Q Can YOU say whether he reacted surprised, shocked?

5 MR . HOGAN: Objection .

6 THE COURT: Sustained .

7 Q In other words , what was his demeanor at the time?

8 MR . HOGAN : Objection , unless he tells him .

9 Q Do you understand---

10 MR . HOGAN : I object to the word demeanor .

11 THE COURT : On what basis?

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MR . HOGAN : Because I don't think it is

understood.

THE COURT : If he does not understand it he will

15 tell us he does not understand it .

16 Q Do YOU know what I mean by demeanor?

17 A No .

18 THE COURT : Objection sustained. Rephrase Your

19 question .

20 Q How did Mr . Martinez behave when he was telling YOU

21 this?

22 A I don · t recall , but he said why we withdraw . That is

23 all .

24 Q Did he indicate to yOU whether or not he already had

25 known about it?

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Pod redo - Redirect -

1 A I am sorry .

2 Q Did he say to YOU during that conversation that he hod

3 already known about the withdrawal?

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"R . HOGAN : Objection. Leading .


6 Q Do you know how "r . "art inez found out about the

7 withdrawal, your withdrawal?

8 A I have no ideo.

9 Q Do yOU know whether or not he knew about it before YOU

10 got there?

11 A I presume so .

12 Q Why do you preSUMe so?

13 A Because the meeting was way before I went to his house.

14 Q Was there anybody there when yOU ar r ived?

15 A "r. Cardona was there .

16 Q Now , with reference to that meeting , I Just wont to

17 understand your testimony on cross-examination .

18 With reference to that meeting at Mr. Martinez '

19 house on either December 13 Dr December 14, yOU said there

20 was another person there?


22 Q Looking at Government ' s Exhibit 79 , do you recall

23 whether or not anyone in this picture represented the person

24 or appears to be the person who was at that meeting?

25 A I really don't recall . I think I sow that person Just

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lone day . never saw before or later. I don·t recall who it

2 was .

3 Q Do YOU see that person or anyone who looks like that

4 person in that photo?

5 A Really. I cannot answer that Question.

6 "R . HOGAN: Objection.

7 THE COURT : Overruled.

8 Q Do yOU know who "r. Victor Gonzalez is? A person named

9 Victor Gonzalez?

10 A No. I think he was one of the members of the board. but

11 I don ' t know him.

12 Q As part of your plea agreement . yoU plead to on

13 information in which--and this is in evidence. where YOU

14 admit to knowingly and Wilfully making a false . fraudulent

15 and fictitious statement of material facts in a contractors

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certificate of actual cost.

Do yOU recall that?

18 A Yes .

19 Q Part of the things thot were false about that

20 certificate of actual cost . is that there were checks

21 indicated paid to subcontractors that were currently not

22 paid to subcontractors .

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Do you recall that?

"R . HOGAN : Objection. Leading . The plea

agreement is in evidence.

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Pcdredc - Redirect -

THE COURT : Overruled ,

Q You can answer thot Question,

A Will yoU---

4 Q Port of the expenses YOU claimed were expenses that

5 apparently were mode to appear as expenses mode to

6 subcontractors and other suppliers that were , in fact , paid

7 to them?

8 MR , HOGAN: I object , It is a mischaracterization

9 of the plea agreement and leading ,

10 THE COURT: Overruled on those grounds ,

11 A The check was issued to the companies that were

12 requested by the owner of the project ; from Martinez ' father

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for work done on the project before I started the proJect ,

Q You kneH that at the time that it Has Hork done prior?

15 A Yes ,

16 Q You also knew at some point that those monies Here never

17 paid to those subcontractors , Is that right?

18 A When I pay the money to the--Hhen He Hrote the checks ,

19 at that time , He Here Informed even if He don ' t pay that

20 money , that company Hould lien the property ,

21 Q You subsequently found out those companies did not get

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paid this money?

A That ' s right, We found out money Has never paid to the

companies , The check was kept by Jiro Martinez ,

(SIDEBAR)

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MR, HOGAN : I think we would have to have a break ,

Afte r on hour and a half in the morning the number 6 is

dozing off, or stand UP or something like that ,

THE COURT : Okay ,

MR , HOGAN : She is very intent most of the time ,

6 Sometimes , after a long time she goes to sleep, as I wish I

7 can sometimes , Would YOU tell them Jiro is no relation to

8 Raul ,

9 (SIDEBAR CONfERENCE CONCLUDED)

10 BY MR , CHAYKIN:

11 Q Mr, Padreda , would you write a memorandum of your

12 meetings with your partners?

13 A No, Sir ,

14 Q Were you in the habit of writing memos at any other

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time?

A No,

17 Q Why was that?

18 A I don ' t use to write memos ,

19 Q Did yOU write a memo of your discussion with Raul

20 Martinez about 150 thousand dollars that he wonted?

21 A No ,

22 Q Why would yOU not write a memo about that conversation?

23 MR, HOGAN: Objection,

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THE COURT : Objection sustained,

Q The memo of December 14 , the memorandum of December 14

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Podredo - Redirect -

1 that was shown to YOU by Mr . Hogan , are there any features

2 about this memo that identify it as a memo written by Mr.

3 Sacasa?

4 A That is the original person who write the memos in my

5 office .

6 Q Let me show yOU what has been marked as defendant's

7 exhibit 9 for identification . Is there anything else about

8 the way that memorandum was drafted that is characteristic

9 of Mr . Sacasa ' s?

10 A Mr . Sacasa in some paragraph when we have--he have to gO

11 and proceed with this same subject or something, always have

12 like down here number; he come back and say pOint one , point

L 13 two . That is a characteristic in the Sacasa memo .

14 Q When you would write what language would YOU write---

15 A In Spanish.

16 Q With respect to your testimony about payment to Mr .

17 Valdez , how did you make those paYments to Mr. Valdez?

18 A Checks .

19 Q To whom?

20 A To different companies .

21 Q Who gave YOU the nomes of these different companies?

22 A Sir .

23 Q HOH did YOU get the names of these different companies?

24 A Through Mr . Valdez.

25 Q How was it that you wrote the checks to these different

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companies? How did that come about?

A He asked me to write a check to different companies.

Q Did YOU know why he was doing that at the time?

4 A No . sir . I have no idea .

5 Q With respect to the indictment in Texas . you signed an

6 agreement which yoU acknowledged responsibility for what yOU

7 did in regarding the indictment in Texas. "r . Hogan showed

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YOU that . Do you recall that?

A Yes.

Q What it means for you to accept responsibility?

11 A We have to repay the bank . and that I took the

12 responsibility to pay the bank .

13 Q Did yOU do that?

14 A Yes. sir.

15 Q Did yOU ever have ony type of agreement between YOU and

16 Judge King . that YOU know about? Was there any plea

17 agreement between you and Judge King?

18 A I never have anything . I never met Judge King ar never

19 talked to "r . Judge King.

20 Q This plea agreement. who was this agreement with?

21 A With the United States Attorney office .

22 Q Does this agreement indicate as to who is baund by this

23 agreement?

24 A The United States Attorney Office.

25 Q Were YOU ever told Judge King would be bound by this

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Podredo - Redirect -

1 agreement?

2 A No. sir.

3 Q When YOU say no . sir---

4 A I don · t have any idea he is bound or whatever.

5 Q Do yOU remembe r any provisions you being adv1sed that as

6 to your sentence that the Court is not bound by any

7 recommendation made by the United States?

8 A That · s what the Judge said at the time .

9 Q The Judge told yOU that?

10 A Yes. sir.

11 Q The Judge told YOU that he was not bound by anything in

12 this agreement. did he not?

L 13 A That·s correct .

14 Q Do you recall that as to restitution . that any award .

15 any ogreement between YOU and the United Stotes as to

16 restitution with respect to the $119 . 000 . that Judge King

17 would not be bound by that also?

18 A No. sir .

19 Q No. he would not be bound?

20 A No . I don ' t know thot .

21 Q Do yOU recall these words in the agreement? Parograph

22 10. all parties understand however that this recommendation .

23 os with any other recommendation that the United States may

24 choose to make is not binding upon the Court . Do YOU recall (

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2 Q That Has your understanding that anything in this

3 document Has not binding on the Court?


5 Q As yOU sit here today , do yOU know what sentence yOU

6 Hill receive from Judge King when yoU are sentenced?

7 A I don · t have any idea .

8 Q When YOU commenced cooperating , pursuant to your plea

9 agreement, do you know whether or not Raul Martinez had

10 already been indicted?

11 A Yes , he was .

12 Q So , your cooperation occurred before or after "r.

13 "artinez ' indictment?

14 MR. HOGAN : ObJ ection . I obJ ect because the

15 indictment is not evidence.


17 Q Your cooperation began before or after Mr . Martinez was

18 indicted?

19 A After "r . Martinez ' indictment .

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"R. HOGAN : ObJ ection . It i s misleading .

THE COURT : Clarify it .

22 Q Do yOU know whether or not the re was a superseding

23 indictment against Mr . Martinez after your plea agreement?

24 Do YOU know what a superseding indictment is?

25 A No , I don ' t .

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Q Do YOU know what, if any , charges were different , before

or after Your cooperation?

A No , I have no idea.

Q When YOU began cooperating, did YOU know or did anybody

tell YOU what specific evidence the Government expected to

get from you?

A The Government expect from me to answer all the

questions that YOU have or the Government has truthfully,

without lYing, at any moment .

Q Was this part of your agreement?

A Yes .

Q Providing truthful and complete information in testimony

regarding your knowledge?

THE COURT : We have gone over that . You went over

that .

Q When YOU began cooperating, did anybody say this is what

we want from you?

A No.

Q Did YOU know at the time of your cooperation what

witnesses the United States had?

A No.

MR. HOGAN : ObJection . Immaterial. Repetitious .

THE COURT : Objection sustained .

Q Do yoU know who was cooperating with the United States

at that time?

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"R . HOGAN : Some objection .

THE COURT: Sustained.

3 Q Did this agreement provide. sir. for your prosecution

4 for perjury if you lied?

5 A Yes . sir.

6 Q Why would yoU not lie? "r . Hogan asked you whether or

7 not you would say the moon is blue if it was white; for your

8 daughter. would yoU do that?

9 A According to the ogreement that I have with the

10 Government I cannot lie at any moment.

11 Q What is your understanding if yOU do lie?

12 A That I can--the agreement is not valid . It is void and

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null and my daughter con be prosecuted .

Q Would yOU do anything to Jeopardize that agreement?

MR . HOGAN: Objection .

THE COURT : He will take that UP in a minute.

17 What is the Question pending?

18 "R. CHAYKIN : Would he do anything to Jeopardize

19 his plea agreement.


21 A No. I would not .

22 Q Had anyone threatened yoU with the fact that if yOU did

23 not sign this plea agreement. that your daughter will be

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indicted?

A No . sir .

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Q Have YOU seen members of the Latin Builders Association

in Cour t the last two days of your testimony?

MR . HOGAN : Objection . Relevancy.


Q What affect has your testimony hod on your standing with

the Latin Builders Association .

MR. HOGAN : Objection .

THE COURT: Objection sustained .

MR . CHAYKIN: I have no further questions .

THE COURT: You may step down.

(WITNESS EXCUSED)

(LINDA LODDO , GOVERNMENT ' S WITNESS, RECALLED)

THE COURT : Ladies and gentlemen do YOU recall we

hod a witness who was not feeling well and we discontinue

the the examination we are bringing that witness back to

continue the examination and ony redirect if it is deemed

appropriate

THE COURT : You are still under oath . Have a

seat, please .

CROSS EXAMINATION , CONTINUED

BY MR , HOGAN :

Q Good morning , Miss Loddo?

A Good morning,

Q Do YOU feel better?

A Much better , thank you . I apologize for not being here

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camillo padreda testimony against hialeah mayor raul martinez

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